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$12 MIT Computer Based On NES, Not Apple II
ericatcw writes "The $12 computer that a bunch of designers and grad students are talking up at an MIT conference this month as a potential, cheaper alternative to the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) for Third World students is actually a knockoff of the original Nintendo Entertainment System gaming console released in the mid-1980s, reports Computerworld, and confirmed in a comment by the project's spokesman, Derek Lomas. According to Lomas' account and pictures, the Victor-70 is an 8-bit NES clone that accepts its cartridges and is wholly contained in the keyboard. It is also likely to be an unlicensed clone made in China, according to Lomas, though he notes that may not matter patent-wise in the US, due to the length of time that has passed."
In addition, the console in a keyboard comes with a fully illustrated manual explaining the proper method of blowing into the cartridges in order to make them function properly...
Just another ignorant American.
Now we can teach children in developing countries the importance of gold coins, magic mushrooms and floating stars.
You play tetris on victor 70
Now a whole new generation of kids can have great enjoyment from the Nintendo. It's kind of like a console hand-me down of sorts lol.
According to the article it is a knock-off device that one of the students found in India on the streets for $12. Adding the Internet access and other necessary componenets most likely will not hike up the price over the OLPC.
If someone finds the company that makes those devices, I want to buy in. This could take off.
Seriously, the IC that's been used for the "pirate" Chinese NES for the past decade costs about $0.05 to manufacture, and you can buy the systems in flea markets across the world for under $10.
Still not impressed. But, if they want to re-invent the re-invented wheel, and for more money, hey, why not?
I have to question the usefulness of a 8 bit system in terms of running modern software, as well as being a useful as a whole. I mean does anyone know a modern linux distro that runs on a 8 bit processor?
If they replaced the massive NES slot with an SD card slot. Also, think how many games, I mean business applications, you could fit on one SD card.
Blowing can actually damage edge connectors of NES Game Paks and other PCBs by depositing humidity, which attracts more dust and more corrosion. I've made an illustrated guide to cleaning cartridges.
It costs less than my abacus!
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=636401&cid=24480979
BTW, I wonder how that'll work out...from what I know people buy those NES clones thinking they are something more...why would they trust next one, from the story?
One that hath name thou can not otter
BIOS error, keypad not detected.
Press Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, A, B, A, B, Start to continue.
This isn't a "$12 computer", this is a "$12 game console".
That's not even a new idea. I've seen cheap old-school console knockoffs at grocery stores for that kind of price range.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Not sure why MIT needs to get involved in anything here. This $12.50 computer is currently produced, and sold on the street in India *now*. So R&D, manufacturing, distribution and marketing is done and working.
Computer includes word processor, games, a gun for gaming, as well as BASIC.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
It appears that this is essentially the same setup as those dodgy Chinese handhelds loaded with a bunch of hacked and remixed NES ROMs.
So why didn't anyone else think of this before? It's perfect; put together this ultra-cheap but still highly programmable hardware with some efficiently-designed educational software, and you've got something that can, despite having a tiny fraction of the OLPC's specs, still make a big, positive impact on kids in the developing world.
If this project is managed right, it could end up doing the OLPC's mission for it and then some.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Step 1: Rip off 20 year old patented technology
Step 2: Cram into smaller container
Step 3: Get MIT guys to give you free press
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit
I mean, what's the actual deal here? Some manufacturer in China is producing a miniaturized clone of the Nintendo skipping out on the licensing fees so they can get it to market in the $12 range, MIT students/alumni are smiling at it around a table. So what exactly is MIT doing?
Is it suddenly dawning on them that if you strip all of the patent protection and licensing from a project that a $100+ chunk of electronics is only $12 worth of components, shipping and handling, and Chinese labor?
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
The Apple IIe had some awesome Pac Man and Space Invaders clones that were decidedly illegal because they mimicked the arcade machines you put quarters in perfectly.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Does anyone have some links to programming tools for the Victor-70? A BASIC interpreter was mentioned in one of the articles. I know I should STFW, but I'm at work and /. has already degraded my productivity enough.
Someone read/heard about the MIT guys using a 6502-based machine and assumed "Apple II", which used the original chips*. The source for the original article could've called it the 2A03 Ricoh variant used in the Famicom/NES for clarity.
* As did many a Commodore computer; other notable devices using 6502 variants/successors were the venerable C64 and the Atari 2600.
And no, I'm not a computing historian.
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
The Apple IIe had some awesome Pac Man and Space Invaders clones that were decidedly illegal because they mimicked the arcade machines you put quarters in perfectly.
For one thing, companies like Atarisoft published plenty of authorized ports of arcade games on Apple II and other 8-bit platforms. For another, how perfectly? Not every aspect is copyrightable.
Does anyone have some links to programming tools for the Victor-70?
If it's as similar to the Famicom as people make it out to be, this web site might be useful.
Older TI calculators have 16 bit 68020 class processors in them. I don't see the point of recreating the limits of the past with new silicon.
...and where could I buy a graphical calculator for fourteen bucks? Thank you.
Older TI calculators have 16 bit 68020 class processors in them. I don't see the point of recreating the limits of the past with new silicon.
Because my TV has a bigger screen than my TI-89. Besides, at least one vlogger got all excited over a TI-83 Plus despite its 8-bit Z80 CPU.
because all of the 'developing, third-world' kids have a color TV set available to them for a monitor.
Oh, and a functioning power grid.
See, the OLPC is good because it works All By Itself when issued with a human powered generator.
Is there a 'missingthepoint' tag available?
patents may expire in 20 years, but copyrights don't.
i'm sure the NES had some sort of firmware on the console that's still covered by copyrights. this would make the work a little harder. the creators of this thingie would have to first develop their own firmware, right ?
What ? Me, worry ?
Crap, I saw the laptop mentioned (http://revolv.in/2008/02/15-laptop-seen-in-mumbai.html) in a small rural market in Mexico next to a bunch of pirated DVDs. Thought that due to the location and price (I think it was 30 dollars) that it had to be a gimic like a screen that was nothing but a sticker. If I would have know that something like this exists I would have checked it out more.
i'm sure the NES had some sort of firmware on the console that's still covered by copyrights.
Citation needed. The only copyrighted ROM inside an NES console that anyone on nesdev.com knows about is the ROM in the CIC lockout chip, and the Famicom didn't even have that.
The current version can't connect to the internet. The MIT students are trying to see if they can get networking on it without going past the $12 price point.
The thing hasn't been updated in a long time so their goal is to see if there's better tech that can be put together for the same price.
Work Safe Porn
Why would you consider this a "ripoff"? Patents are granted for 20 years, with the express intention that after that period, the invention can be freely used by others.
Because it isn't just the patents. Looking at the Picasa album, I see that the computer appears to be bundled with a multicart containing unauthorized copies of several copyrighted Nintendo games. I'd bet it even has proprietary Tetris instead of GPL'd Tetramino.
... stamping on turtles and jumping into drainpipes.
I'm not certain, but I think their plan is:
1) Select the lowest cost computer you can find.
2) Write educational software for it.
3) market the hardware+software solution to schools and poor families in developing countries.
4) Profit! but while making the world a better place too.
Who knows. Perhaps press? Some attention?
Its incredible that this is considered a viable idea. For 4 or 5x the price you can get a OLPC. I think a computer lab with 10 of these is a lot better for students than 50 students having these 8-bit beaters in their homes.
Linux is way too big for the sort of cheap ARM chips available today.
GNU/Linux is probably too big, but that doesn't mean Linux is. DSLinux and other uClinux distributions run on ARM CPUs.
A modern BASIC wouldn't be the worst thing to ship and there are good Free implementations available. I'm afraid a fully self hosted development environment probably isn't possible on such a limited platform
Think again. There are BASIC compilers that run on a Commodore 64.
has variations, which include adding SELECT and another B, A or A, B to the end, and several other minor tweaks...
I haven't heard of this before. Sounds interesting, a 3rd party clone to run my old NES cartridges. I searched for "Victor-70" and got some guy's myspace page - I'm guessing even if he's offering NES games, I don't want anything of it.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Of course you can port some kind of Linux to an environment with no virtual memory and no memory protection, but it will have all the glory of Win32s.
But sometimes, all the glory of Win32s is all the glory you need. See also uClinux.
I actually have one of these...I bought a Famiclone when in the Philippines earlier this year. It was housed in what looked like a PC keyboard (which worked) and came with a Famicom game slot in the top, two game pads, a light gun and a mouse. The included game cartridge had a few ripped off NES games as well as a BASIC compiler and a word processing program (which seems useless considering the fact there is no way to print) and some educational stuff that used the mouse. It was called the "HUG New Educational Computer 2003" and comes in a box with an attractive Asian model holding it. The actual unit is made from the cheapest, most brittle plastic imaginable, but it works. I paid the peso equivalent of $10. I left the lightgun in the Philippines though because it was cheap plastic it looked identical to an Uzi, and I didn't want anything like that in my luggage.
That pistol controller in the box (first picture) must be great for Al Quaida's version of "educational" games like America's Army etc. ...
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Whoa, I just saw the Picassa images and that is the EXACT famiclone that I bought, though the light gun was different. Same software on the cart as well. If you're ever at Gaisano Mall in Davao City, Philippines, you can pick one up for yourself. (They're probably available at many more dodgy retailers across Asia though)
Too bad, the apple ][ idea would have been educational.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Linux may not be doable, but Minix may be...
Sounds a lot like the C64 DTV.
Some one call Dr. Ashens.
The paradox here is that the Famicom (NES) was so ahead of its time there was already in early 1985 a Basic language program sold by Nintendo in Japan, ãfããfYãfãf¼ãf(TM)ãf¼ããffãï¼ï¼" (Family Basic V3). So it was in a way a computer well before MIT students thought this up.
A NES-on-a-chip was used in those Jakks Atari joysticks (a joystick with 5-10 built-in games and an audio/video out cable) from about 5 years ago. The gameplay and sound were not perfect because it's emulated. I believe they retailed for around $15 or less.
Hands in my pocket
Really?
How much time do you think anyone can or will sit in a computer lab that they are sharing with several dozen other students?
How much time do you think that someone can spend sitting in front of a video monitor at home?
The immersed, "deep" learning occurs when one has the luxury of forgetting where the time went. In a resource-strapped school in a developing country, that's not the computer lab.
There are those of us who learned to program in more primitive environments than these - and we learned to program a little "closer to the metal."
For 4 or 5x the price you can get a OLPC.
but if you only have 1/2 the price of an OLPC, then 2 of these is certainly MUCH better than zero OLPCs.
This IS an impressive feat. We may take for granted that there is a tv in every house but many of the countries that are being targeted have issues providing clean WATER. So the cheaper and more self contained these become, the better.
All you really need is an 8-bit system that supports VT220 and Telnet. then you share a fat Linux box remotely with 100 other people.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I have always been puzzled as to why game hardware manufacturers don't circle back around to the home computing market and release hardware there as well.
Take the game cube hardware, downclock it, make it a system on a chip to control costs, and give it some internal flash and SD slots for storage. Throw it in a keyboard or laptop form factor and call it done. I am not convinced it would even need network hardware...
Don't tell me computers are not Nintendo's business model or there's no money in it. Cater to the kids; give them a cheap, modern programmable computer. So what if you break even on the deal, it's just a nice thing to do for the world.
This project is stupid and unfocused. To assume "the lower middle class" (what they called "the middle class of developing countries") is gonna settle for less than a PC with a pirated Windows XP is insane.
Take the Linux machines that are currently being sold in Brazil: they are tipically low-end PCs with a subsidized price (and, may I add, the most retarded KDE interface you could ever come up with). Talk to *any* salesperson and they will tell you what you already knew: the buy Linux because it's a cheap machine then they scrape it for a Windows XP that you can buy in any street market for less than US$10.00.
Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
I constantly see older PCs in thrift stores for under 25 dollars, these are usually Windows 95/98 machines, but they are totally capable of connecting to the internet. CRT Monitors can be purchased for under 5 dollars, and keyboards/mice/etc can be purchased for under a dollar. Now you have a complete desktop for about 35 dollars, that can connect to the internet, run office software...use peripherals. I'm sure they can be found for far cheaper than that. Wouldn't it be more effective to sell refurbished PCs with Linux on them, instead of a pirated Famicom? I'm sure lots of people have old PCs just sitting in their garage they could donate to a cause like that. I'm also certain there already is a cause like that...but it would be neat to see a new use for NES hardware.
I'd be more excited if this were based off of a Genesis. Neat that they're bringing back old hardware, though; I've always had a soft spot for old technology.
Need an automatic screenshot taker? Try here.
how does the gun help for basic?
Kidding!
68020 is a full 32-bit processor.
7. Completely miss the point 8. ??? 9. Profit
They should base it on the Amiga. Many things people would learn in it are valid for newer systems.
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
Over here, John Travolta appears as a chubby girl in drag and frots to good ol' 80's music.
won't the cost of the cartridges make it uneconomic?
I can't see them costing less than $5 each.
An eprom, a pcb, the plastic case, packaging, shipping, admin etc
They have to get the software right first time, there are no firmware updates etc. I'm not sure students are used to working to the standard required to do this. Any additional software will be a $5 hit. Three cartridges and you have spent more than the computer.
Cartridges were always seen as an expensive alternative to other media. Why bring them back?
No seriously, if they are literally cloning something then wouldn't there also be copyright issues? Copyrights could last over 50 years thanks to Mickey.
I feel concerned that if copyright is a non-issue here, then everyone advocating software IP protection via copyright would have to head back to the drawing board.
I have jars of spit in reserve 3oz vials, with a brush under the lid. It was used back in 1993 to clean all cartridges. You can click Buy It Now for 3.99 USD + 18 USD shipping cost, here.
These days you can get an ARM micro for less than a buck, perhaps 25c more than the 8-bit equivalent. http://www.luminarymicro.com/
Engineering is the art of compromise.
It was called Doctor PC Junior: http://mypage.direct.ca/c/ccovell/dev1.html
Go to digikey.com and you can buy a bunch of different ARM micros for less than $10 in single units (search for Luminary, AT91SAM or LPC2). You can quite easily make your own PCB.
Or you can go to http://www.olimex.com/dev/index.html and find a lot of different pre-built header boards for $25 or so. For $10 to $50 you can add a JTAG debugger from olimex or amonex. All the dev software is free: http://www.olimex.com/dev/index.html and openocd.
Whatever way you choose, there are plenty that will give you change from $100.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
still MIT, still == Made In Taiwan
Why don't they use genesis instead? Genesis does what nintendon't
Ever to excel
Due to chip production processes, it's possible to get most of this functionality as "computer on a chip". However, aim a bit higher. There also might be the problem of getting chips that are this underpowered... Manufacturing plants will be setup to produce a range of products but tricky getting old stuff, like there is only one manufacturer for replacement radio vacuum tubes - and many tube types you just can't get.
How many will use this computer if their cell phone is more powerful? Build a platform off a cell phone.
Which brings up... many cell phones run on Linux - so there are light options.
People will want to get on the internet and getting information is important.
A basic paper-back sized box with several USB ports and a TV-out and a low speed Ethernet is all that's needed. Ports are expensive so only have the bare minimum. Then use USB keyboard and mouse like suggested. USB flash drive has full OS + user storage. They can use any machine by just plugging in the flash drive and booting up. Something like Damn-Small-Linux that installs on a 64MB flash drive or larger for more user space.
Since they use pretty much the same processor from a software standpoint there pretty much the same thing. Its trivial to port AppleII software and that is probably the base for the systems non-game software now.
How much time do you think anyone can or will sit in a computer lab that they are sharing with several dozen other students?
If they're forced to by the school's rules, or voluntarily?
Maybe your experience differs, but I find just having a computer is not enough to make me study with it. I have to specifically set aside time that I'll only do studying. If I'm forced to travel to a lab to do that, you can bet that time is used for what is necessary, instead of playing games or browsing the web. Or even just fiddling with things.
Having more time is actually bad, in this case. It allows you to procrastinate to the point that you miss your deadline due to outside factors.
Still, having each student have a computer is better in its own ways... It ensures that everyone gets a chance to use it, for 1 thing. (Assuming they don't break, or that they have spares available.)
I don't think there's a clear winner between the 2 approaches.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Even in developing countries most of them have tv sets, an lcd monitor is an unnecessary expense.
I wonder why Apple itself hasnt considered the idea of opensourcing or bsd'ing the Apple IIgs hardware and software for developing countries. It would make them look even better, and allow Apple to take a big one time tax write-off.
Then the chinese could come up with $10-20 IIgs clone with a hardwired ethernet port and built in software.
An educational computer that comes with a GUN.
What are we trying to teach?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/dereklomas/R9P54JARiPI/AAAAAAAAASw/rqd6lbL9d9I/P3081423.JPG
Contiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiki
http://www.sics.se/contiki/
Contiki already runs on Apple ][, Atari 8-bit and Commodore 64/128.
TinyOS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TinyOS
http://www.tinyos.net/
When I was a teen I developed a multi-tasking kernel for the Commodore-64 computer. Yeah... I was totally geeking.
...
I got it to work, but the biggest challenge was trying to figure out how to make it be able to use real swapping and virtual memory (I wanted to use a floppy drive act as swap I could have a 180+K system and perform swapping on a memory block / page-based basis).
To do this with a 6502 series CPU, I concluded it would be easier to have a compiler that could produce code that used only relative addressing operations as well as took advantage of the BRK-vector as a way to add "extended operators" to the architecture.
So under this new architecture:
BRK-BRK ($00 $00) = the original BRK ($00).
BRK-$01 ($00 $01) = end of page boundary reached
BRK-$01 ($00 $02) = remove process from scheduler
BRK-$03 ($00 $03) =
etc...
You get the idea. BRK-$01 (end of page boundary) would have been important because the compiler would have to place this at the end of the code in a page near the page boundary. It would be used to single the underlying system that it needed to advance the instruction counter to the first byte in the next logical page of this process.
I benched tested most of this, but moved onto other things. The compiler is the trick, though. Hand coding the tests for this architecture was tough. But I knew that having a compiler do the heavy lifting of laying out the instructions would have rocker-dockered.
I don't see whats so special. Low price remakes of 80s consoles have been around for a while. We even see them from time to time in the developed world, for example a while ago I saw a C64 built into a joystick with a rom containing hundreds of C64 games. How is this any different apart from having a keyboard?
I'm also pretty sure that there are plenty of people in the developing world using computers the developed world throw out years ago. Everything ranging from 8-bit 80s machines to 5-10 year old PCs.
Well, strictly speaking, by definition a $12 game console is a $12 computer as well.
Well, strictly speaking, by definition a $12 digital calculator watch is a $12 computer as well.
It may be all very ho-hum for you with your GHz PC and internet connection
No, I'm comparing it with the "$12 Apple ][" that it was originally rumored to be.
all MIT has to do is come up with a NES cartridge with decent software
And its own cartridge slot and some kind of removable mass storage so you can share what you've created with it. That's what made the personal computer revolution. That's why the Apple II and Commodore 64 and Atari 800 beat the technically superior but fatally crippled TI-99/4a.
Which ended up being nothing more than a console, in the end.
Please, stop designing crap and pretending it's ok that it is crap because you are throwing it at the Third World. Also, any comment about computers in the "Third World" that includes a remark about the lack of running water is stupid. The Third World is not an homogeneous mass of starved differently-colored people living in huts in villages ruled by tribal warlords. Rural village, meet industrial city. Starving poor, meet rich entrepreneur. Civil war zone, meet stable nation. Military dictatorship, meet modern democracy. Every one of these elements is a part of the "Third World", which is a far less homogeneous place than the "First World" (not to mention geographically much larger) and thus, a lot more complicated. Also, the country that has been the most successful so far in designing stuff for the "Third World" has been China. DUH I WONDER WHY MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY NEED THIS STUFF TOO AND THUS HAVE SOME KIND OF INSIDER'S KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROBLEM. People in the US should be proud of their ability as a country to be technological leaders - and for that the whole world is glad, and I think even most Americans don't realize how incredibly important this technological leadership actually is, really, please keep doing what you do best and feel free not to bother trying to make the headlines with your Jesus-y, condescending, limited, crappy computer of the week designed for people living in huts by alienated college students who never had a real-world job in their lives. The technological revolution in the Third World is coming from cheap, one-generation-behind, highly integrated Chinese motherboards, running Windows Starter Edition (yes Microsoft did something right and useful!), along with governments getting a clue and removing import duties and creating lines of credit for the acquisition of these things. All of which has been happening for a while, and I assure you, nobody from MIT was not involved.
To sell for $12.00 you a parts list under $6.00. That means using a single-chip ARM7 with on-chip ram and ROM, and the ones I'm finding have less ram than an Apple II. You're not going to fit even a 1970s UNIX implementation in that, and you'll end up with the same problem the original Mac had: the system software took up so much RAM your 128k Mac had about 12k free for working space with even the simplest apps, and to make even that possible the OS design crippled them until they replaced it with OS X.
So you're going to have to bootstrap the whole OS and development environment from scratch, and what you end up with isn't going to have any kind of upwards growth towards an open source free unix environment.
To make an ARM-based design actually useful, you're going to have to target RISC-OS, not a new OS, and I have a feeling that even RISC-OS is going to push the limits of what you can run in $6.00 worth of parts.
I can visualize an Apple-][ clone fitting in that budget, but I think ARM is pushing it.
I used to have a semi XT clone called a Victor 2000 if I remember correctly. It had floppy disks in an incompatible format to the XT, a Herculesish graphics again incompatible with XT, and an NEC 8088 compatible processor running at a faster clock rate than the XT. Anyone else remember these? It was nothing like these Victor-60 and Victor-90 machines.
The Amiga was pretty useless for learning anything. Nobody should be sitting and writing copperlists in 68000 assembly code in 2008.
No sig today...
It's probably the best choice to implement on a machine with limited resources. As a downside, it kinda funny you think makes.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
Tetris totally plays you.
I played that for like 8 hours one time, then closed my eyes and saw falling blocks on the inside of my eyelids.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Amen brother.
I used Turbo Pascal extensively when I was about 14 (up until I got a copy of Turbo c++)
That development environment was AWESOME. I don't think any other compiler I have used was as fast as that. On a modern machine it would compile and run a decently sized program before I could take my finger off the control-f9 key.
I even used TP in a commercial project. It was a Z-80 based dispatch display unit for a fleets of vehicles. (Yes, you can download a Turbo Pascal 1.0 for CP/M). It was the only project I ever remember completing on time and under budget at that place.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
The big key to the explosion of basic was the the shallower learning curve, and the availability of it and of small programs in magazines and books you could just type in.
As someone that endured the progression of from:
IBM PC BIOS Basic, GWBasic, Visual Basic 3.0, VB 4.0, VB 5.0, VB 6.0
I can say that the newer flavors of Basic do not deserve the stigma associated with the earlier versions.
(I used VB.net but I'm not sure if it should be called Basic or not.)
Including a version of basic that has GOTO disabled by default and has OO and module support and a newb friendly manual would be one of the best things I can think of to provide to a child.
Including that, a C compiler and an Assembler and you have the makings of a computer programmer indoctrination machine.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
I used various Amiga systems for more than ten years and never wrote a copperlist once. However I did do a lot of system configuring, scripting, interlinking apps with scripts, network configuration, hardware modification and some C programming. Many of those are still way more valid than shoving a modified nintendo in the face of 3rd world children. Computer logic on the Amiga is not so different than those used on newer systems, it just gives you more of an opportunity to break things without the system trying to cover for you.
*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
Unless you're using Basic to be compatible with an existing Basic implementation, in which case you want to really be making an Apple ][ clone, you're much better off with something like Logo. The recent version of Basic I've used have abandoned the interactivity and robustness that made Basic fun without becoming more than a mediocre structured language. They're a better language than Dartmouth Basic, or Applesoft, they're out of the gutter and onto the sidewalk... but why shoot for the sidewalk when you can have the stars?
I second this. They are also available in China, and have been for a long time. I have one myself, paid about that, 12$ in a Shanghai supermarket... I don't see what the MIT has to do with that...
That's a very good point. It was interactivity that made all of those easy to tinker with.
So maybe something like a console you can pull down like in an FPS game?
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.