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China To Snap 4 Space Ships Into a Station
hackingbear writes "According to a report by Hong Kong newspaper Mingpao Daily (poor Google translation), quoting the Director of Jiuquan Launch Center, China is set to build a space station by snapping together four spaceships (Shenzhou 7, 8, 9, and 10), to be launched sequentially. Though other reports indicates that taikonauts abroad SZ 7 will return to Earth on September 28, the official said the ship will remain in the orbit to be docked with unmanned Shenzhou 8 and 9. Finally, the manned spaceship Shenzhou 10 will be launched and dock with the other three, completing the space station." A story at Space.com also briefly mentions Shenzhous 8 and 9 (with no mention of number 10), and adds that
China has selected its first spacewalker.
I dunno... I used to build those "snap together" model kits. They really might want to consider going with cement.
I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. I tagged this with "voltron"
-G
Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
Does anyone else find the practice of using the foreign-language version of "astronaut" a bit annoying? It seems a bit bizarre.
A Chinese astronaut is... an astronaut. A Russian astronaut is... an astronaut. You'll notice that during the Olympics, Chinese athletes were still called "athlete."
Why arbitrarily translate some words into the foreign language?
In Chinese, it literally means "space person", which is what they call all professional space-faring people (eg astronaut, cosmonaut, etc.) no matter what their respective countries call them. So why don't we just call them all "astronauts"?
China doesn't snap space ships together to make a space station, it secretly fits engines to its space station and uses it as a ship and plans to refuel on Europa.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
"Though other reports indicates that taikonauts abroad SZ 7 will return to Earth on September 28, the official said the ship will remain in the orbit to be docked with unmanned Shenzhou 8 and 9. Finally, the manned spaceship Shenzhou 10 will be launched and dock with the other three, completing the space station."
If they fly each ship up and, "Snap", it with another, how are the Taikonauts getting home?!?
Are they going to make those folks hoof it back? Hitch a ride with the shuttle? Some cool new parachute technology they have been holding back? :)
Take care all,
Joe
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin"
One feature of the Shenzhou capsule is that the orbit module (which detaches from the reentry module before reentry) can stay in function as a separate spacecraft.
Thus part of Shenzhou 7 will stay in space to form part of the station, and part of it will return the men home.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
They don't. They wanted to, and given that the shuttle replacement is falling behind schedule and relations with Russia are putting access to Soyuz in jeopardy, having an alternative means of getting there would be great. Pity the west had to be petty about it.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Sky lab was hurried to put together and the only tragedy was that they couldn't keep it in orbit. I suppose the Chinese attempt will also end in falling from space if they can't figure out how to refuel it and keep it higher in orbit.
They must be talking about leaving the Hab/Orbital module on orbit for SZ7. Since ShenZhou is a modernized Soyuz, it's fairly simple. The pressurized top module has independent RCS thrusters and is designed to act as a satellite after detaching from the descent module. The previous SZ flights have included experiments and observation packages that continued long after crew return - this is a logical extension of that concept. The article refers to SZ7 as a "target vehicle" - guarantee that is referring only to the orbital module.
IIRC, the Chinese were shopping around a "long node" station design a decade ago - this is the operational version of those viewgraphs.
Unless they plan to dock the orbital modules in sequence, one of the vehicles must include a Node - my guess is SZ8 but it could be 9, these are both uncrewed so that helps with the mass of additional docking adapters.
j
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
I was reading about the fighter pilot china chose ( http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080916/world/china_space ), and this is crazy ...
A 42-year-old fighter pilot has been chosen to become the first Chinese person to walk in space... Zhai Zhigang, a colonel in the People's Liberation Army...His pressurised spacesuit, which cost up to 100 million yuan (15 million dollars), is largely based on Russian designs and will include two lifelines that will supply oxygen and communications
China is spending millions on space suits and America is spending millions on bailing out big corporations. Strange how that works, huh?
Look. "Astronaut" is Greek. "Cosmonaut" also Greek. "Taikonaut" is dumb.
But it's not the fault of the Chinese. They call their space travelers "Yuhangyuan".
First country to establish a permanent lunar base?
First country to establish a permanent martian colony?
I know where my money is riding.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
following the launch of manned spacecraft "God 7", "God 8" and "God 9" will be unmanned spacecraft, "God 10".
Snapping four gods together to form one orbital god?
Or is this just a bad google translation?
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Tibet? Tibet was peanuts. Ditto Iraq.
If we're talking deaths, let's talk about "the great leap forward" or the "cultural revolution." Now we're in the big leagues.
I wonder how "orbiting space barge of death" translates from the original Russian into Chinese.
China is spending millions on space suits and America is spending millions on bailing out big corporations. Strange how that works, huh?
Maybe they should spend that to keep people from putting melamine in their food.
What the US has done in Iraq is orders of magnitude worse than what China has done in Tibet.
Has it occurred to you that the parent coward could be against both China's human rights abuses AND the war in Iraq? Why in the world is it okay for China to act like a dick just because you think the US has acted like a dick?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Instead of wasting all that thrust getting big liquid/airtight tanks into space only to let them fall back down, somebody will use them to expand our spaceborne volume.
Spacestations would be much cheaper if every rocket became an addon, even if they were only useable as liquid storage. Larger air capacity=less crisis when the scrubbers/recyclers fail.
Hell, grew some veggies in them, cut down on the vitamins we have to ship up.
I'd be interested to know how much this launch/assemble space station is going to cost the Chinese, and then comparing how much the ISS cost.
I know they build things cheaper in China, but I thought that was just t-shirts and sneakers and stuff.
Choose one from above, or come up with your own guess.
So, they never mentioned how they plan on getting the people they send up there back down. I guess when you've got 1.5 billion people it doesn't matter?
So they are after their own Mir station, so what? USSR has done that on multiple occasions (put together space capsules into some sort of a space station configuration.) It's just good engineering, but in this case it is not surprising at all, considering that Chinese space industry is sort of regurgitation Russian space industry.
You can't handle the truth.
Good for them.
China may well do this right, the 1950s Collier's space program way. Just mass produce and launch medium-sized rockets until there's a real space station in orbit. The problem with NASA has always been that they don't do anything in volume, so their costs are too high.
I know this is Slashdot, but here T properly translated FA. Contents inside [] are mine.
Bad article (it's tautology -- blame the writer) and bad translation (blame me).
Space Lab Planned after Shenzhou-X Launch
Mr. Cui Ji-Jun, director of Jiuquan Space Launch Center, today told the media that the Shenzhou-VIII and -IX spaceships, which are scheduled after this year's manned Shenzhou-VII unit, will both be unmanned. The tenth of the series will again send astronauts into space and snap with an orbiting target. After that, work will be done to construct a space-based laboratory.
According to the Qilu Evening [a Shandon-based newspaper], Mr. Cui said the featured task of Shenzhou-VII will be a spacewalk. Three astronauts will be aboard: one will take the walk out of the ship, another one will assist him in the orbiting unit (of Shenzhou-VII), and the third in the return unit. Cui also explained the reason behind the decision of launching the spaceship at night. [However the news fails to tell what it is:(]
Shenzhou-VIII and -IX, Unmanned
Cui said after Shenzhou-VII gets launched, a Target unit will be sent to space, and later the VIII to X units. Shenzhou-VIII, unmanned, will go after the Target unit and join with it. The IX unit will do the same. Shenzhou-X, piloted by astronauts, will also join with the Target. After this is done, the first task will be the making of a space lab.
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I find it interesting that they are all set to go for docking four ships together into a space station, and they haven't even done a spacewalk yet.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
Because people, as a whole, are jackasses and morons who don't think, they rationalize.
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
No no, you don't get it. Only one nation at any one time can be evil, and it must be absolutely so, and every other nation at that time must be its equal and absolute opposite. Duh!
.. they will repeat the mission profile the Russians flew back in 1968 or so?
It's simply the most logical thing to do. Launching stuff into space is so incredibly expensive that scrapping the stuff or even bringing it back to earth makes absolutely no sense financially. I've never understood why there has not been some prior planning to do this with just about any spacecraft. We'd have had a space city by now and if something broke, it could be ditched after all. Even stuff that's completely useless at the moment could still come in handy later on.
In space useless crap is worth billions, you just have to keep it around long enough to find a use for it. There's more than enough space up there to do that;-)
0x or or snor perron?!
is on private enterprise. I think that before 2020 that Private enterprise will have a base on the moon, and by 2025, a base on mars. The reason is that being in space IS expensive. But being on the moon or mars is actually safer and cheaper. The moon will enable us to stretch out and build. The private enterprise will build at the pole using solar. American gov. will follow with nuke generator. In fact, the west will get behind Musk and Bigelow and jump on board. They will build their own infrastructure over time, but it will make use of others initially.
BTW, the first mission to mars will also be private enterprise. And it will be a one-way mission (or at least one where the crew is expected to stay there for 10 years or longer). The reason is that it is expensive. But I am guessing that Musk and others will try to capture asteroids and send them to earth. That same tech will allow them to send ammonia/water based asteroids careening into mars to make it habitable.
That is my bet.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"The West"!= the USA.
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
I know, I complained about this the last time Slashdot ran a story on Chinese space program, but it simply annoys the fire out of me.
If they are going to translate (well, it isn't even a translation, but a phonetic English spelling of a Chinese word) the Chinese word for "taikonaut", then they really ought to "translate" the word "Director" too, since they are both occupations held by a Chinese person. If you're going to make us have to deal with foreign pronunciations when we have perfectly adequate words in our own language, then you might as well be consistent.
Better known as 318230.
The Chinese have done two manned flights, Shenzhou 5 and Shenzhou 6. They also, if you hadn't figured this out from the names, sent up 4 unmanned versions of the craft before they put anybody in it.
Shenzhou 7 is due for launch in 8 days. Go on youtube and you can see video of the rocket itself ready to go out to the launch pad. If you think this is hot air you are a total nonce.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Which is why you shouldn't look at things 'basically'. You miss out on a whole lot.
Comparing the Voskhod missions to Shenzhou is totally absurd. Even the slightest bit of research would reveal this, but you prefer a more 'basic' view of things I see.
Although what the craft is doing, in the most basic sense of course, is similar to what was done before, Shenzhou is probably the most modern manned spacecraft flying right now.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
As the parent pointed out, Chinese, Russians etc.. have their OWN words for "astronaut"... kosmonavt, taikong ren etc... ****naut isn't what they call their own astronauts.
A 'taikonaut' is actually what "English people" (mostly media, I imagine) call a Chinese taikong ren. I would assume translators and english-speaking media do so because languages based on a different alphabet systems are difficult to pronounce and spell phonetically... And while astronaut would be just fine with me, I guess there is some need to supplement 'naut' (which seems to imply 'explorer') with a version of their native word for space.
Personally, I'd like to see the word 'astronaut' used instead of flavor_of_the_month_onaut, because that's what they are in English.. an astronaut. Shame on the translator for making arbitrary, cultural concessions.
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
Oh no, you are using PPP values! You! You! Gah! ...Why don't people learn!? You use GDP nominal, as in real money, to measure the economic power of different countries.
With GDP nominal the figures are:
In real money terms China has the economic power equaling Germany that has GDP nominal of 3,32 trillion.
Survey research tool for commercial and scientific use
The linked article simply discusses China's gradual but steadily improving manned space programme. It says nothing about what the Chinese call their Astronauts, Tibet, Iraq, or about NASA or the shuttle. Why on earth do you people have to diss any nation that does anything positive be it Chinese, Indian, Russian or European?
To me, it comes across as pure envy that someone else is doing things that you used to consider your own territory.
There is nothing wrong with the American space programme and it has a long and proud tradition, and folks like the ones making the Falcon rocket look to be making space reachable by private people in the future.
So why the pressing need to insult the Chinese?
Similar to Russian spacecraft, the Shenzhou has a separate re-entry module and orbital module (whereas Apollo for example, had a command module which functioned as the both the orbital module and re-entry vehicle). The orbital module is what stays in orbit to become a piece of the space station.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
I think this was episode 4 of season 2 in Transformers where the 5 cars turn into a mega robot...
cool episode...nice to see the Chinese remember such great shows!
Chinese government issued a country-wide Space Station Act under which each Chinese household is required to build at least one Shenzhou Module, successfully launch it and have it attach to the modules in orbit.
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I once wrote an article about how they should use the shuttle to send up in space one more time and use for parts, as they were planning to end its run as Us main shuttle to space. I had so many people blasting me about how it can't be done, and yet here go the Chinese and do the same thing I mentioned with not 1 but 4 shuttles and just leave them in space as materials for space station (although they are actually designed for this purpose
do not drink the powdered milk!
...4 space ships snaps YOU into a station!
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
Every reasonably sized nation has blood on its hands, comparing tragedies quickly becomes pointless. I'd say the U.S. is pretty comfortably in the "big leagues" as far as historic human rights abuses and deaths are concerned. The only thing we can do is try and make tomorrow better.
You retarded asshole! Go to China and see for yourself. Chinese people are millions of times happier than you ever imagine, though there are many problems. And China would not "liberate" Iraq and kill millions of innocent people.
To take the external tanks for the Shuttle the rest of the way into orbit, and do just that.
And my wife, a former NASA engineer at KSC, says that management refused, because "that's not the way we've always done it".
And I hope this puts a bug up the anti-civilian-space Republican ass, that the Chinese may have put another space station into orbit in only a year or so, instead of the dozen years for Station.
mark
No! China's building a Beowulf Cluster in space!
Say an American company did the lead thing. Would you blame the people responsible or the entire nation? Or what if your own government was hiding the levels of lead contamination in the drinking water? Would you blame the people responsible or the entire nation?
Skylab actually spent several years in development and was intended to be used for a fairly long term. It was to be kept up by reboosts from the Apollo spacecraft that visited it, so it was possible to keep it in orbit. In fact, NASA was considering using the cancelled fourth manned visit to the station to primarily boost it high enough that it would stay in orbit until the shuttle's planned entry into service in 1979 (which ended up being two years late). However, the limitations of the station, compared to the capabilities of the shuttle (especially with a spacehab module in the payload bay), damage sustained during its launch, and the need for on-orbit maintenance led to those plans being cancelled.
Initial design work on Skylab began in 1966, 7 years before it was launched, as part of the Apollo Applications Program. The original plan was to use the second stage of a Saturn-1B rocket, which was actually the same as the third stage of the Saturn V. Because of the smaller capacity of the Saturn 1B, it would be a fully fueled stage with access points added so the first crew could enter the empty stage in orbit and convert the interior, which only had minimal gear at the time of launch. This was called the "wet lab" configuration.
The limitations and complexity of that approach led to a switch to the Saturn V, launching its converted third stage dry and much more fully outfitted (which they could now afford to do since it was full of cryogenic hydrogen and oxygen), including a large docking module at one end, plus all the necessary life-support gear. A large optical telescope was also attached. Three manned missions ultimately were conducted on board Skylab.
The Chinese should be able to similarly reboost this mini space station and replenish consumables each time they visit. However, this will be a very small station. The total interior volume of four Shenzhou orbital modules is barely more than 10% of the interior volume of Skylab and about 1/3 the size of the Soviet Salyut stations. It will also have limited amounts of consumables and power. It won't afford them a lot of versatility.
But if they use cement, they can't separate until they're needed to reform Voltron again.
Same's true for snap-fit, actually - the pegs will typically lock the parts together firmly enough that you can't separate them without breaking the pegs - and possibly damaging part edges in the process of trying to pry it apart... If you want to assemble a snap-kit and be able to take it apart again, you need to trim the pegs or cut the side of the socket to reduce the "locking" feature... Of course then you'll need cement again to make the assembly permanent...
Bow-ties are cool.
Everybody knows seven ate nine and ten.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Does anyone else but me get bummed out reading about their separate spacefaring adventures? Wouldn't it be great to have them contribute to the "International" space station as well?!?! Certainly would put a nice infusion of resources into the thing.
China is spending millions on space suits and America is spending millions on bailing out big corporations. Strange how that works, huh?
Now, now. What makes you think the modern US government chose only one of those two options?
We're currently spending $183 million on design work for the next generation of space suits for the Constellation program, with an option for future contracts for $260-300 million. That covers 4 suits for moon walkers and 6 suits for people headed to the ISS. (ref)
(Oh, and the Chinese are considering bailing out Lehman brothers, so they're getting in on that action too, I guess.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
In addition to what the previous poster said, I'd like to point out that it's not like this is the first time someone's done manned space flights. China's just doing what other countries tried out first, having learned from our failures & successes instead of stepping forth into the unknown themselves.
I'd be rather disappointed in a nation with their economic might and engineering experience if they couldn't get it right in this timeframe.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I was just trying to be funny. But if you want to debate, here it goes:
I don't blame the Chinese people - China has a rich history and culture - I blame the government. I have been to Hong Kong and Taiwan.
There are thousands if not millions of toys and products that have been recalled from Chinese Manufacturers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/business/02toy.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_export_recalls
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSPEK15755920070813
Do a google on: china lead recall - only 337,000 hits are returned!
And China is considered one of the biggest havens for piracy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13617619/
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2006/07/71300
I even "visited" markets in both Taiwan and China where I saw pirated versions of almost every Microsoft and PC software package for sale for a fraction of what they are supposed to retail for. I saw CD's, Movies, everything for sale for a fraction of what the real product costs.
And before you suggest that the products were not pirated, may I add that the manuals with the software were cheesy xeroxed copies. And the CD's and DVD's didn't come in standard cases....
Any place like this would be busted in a few days in the US.
Granted, I haven't been to the mainland, but most of the products probably come from there....
These are facts... The only "people" hurt by denying them are the Chinese people, because as their products get a worse reputation, their economy will suffer.
Recognize also that due to the "firewall" the chinese government has on internet access, that few chinese are probably even aware of the criticism of the Chinese Government or the product recalls or the piracy...
Yeah, the US government kind of sucks. But at least I can read about it and talk about it, without my news or speech being "censured"...
And I can go to a coffee shop, get drunk on Caffine, or go to a bar, and get drunk on beer, and bitch about the US and living here without fear of being thrown in prison because I don't "agree" with my government...
I'll say. Germany, France, ENgland, Russia, etc. have been FAR WORSE over a long period of time. But the west is lumped together because we are generally together on all this. All in all, it is the west, not just USA.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
For what it's worth, we are handing Iraq back to the Iraqis with the pieces sort of bandaged together and a big "oops" for apology. When is China handing Tibet back to the Tibetans? BTW, Iraqi has the freedom to shoot and curse at the Americans and exercise their political muscles in between street mayhem. Is the same true in Tibet? I think you are forgetting one major difference between the more democratic part of the world and the more authoritarian part of the the world. True, both sides make mistakes and inflict costly pain and suffering in the past, in the present, and will most likely do so again in the future. But in the more democratic part of the world, we can discuss our mistakes and do something about it. The same can not be said for the Beijing government.
they will use melamine to hold it all together...
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Maybe they should have consulted the Danish for their snap-together solution?
And they were in Chingrish. Bery Cronfusing
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Are you boycotting U.S. products?
This space intentionally left blank
Without reading every single post in this thread, might I ask the obvious(or, maybe not so obvious), if it hasn't been already?
How are the Taikonauts getting back to Mothership Earth?
Are you boycotting U.S. products?
I'm afraid you aren't talking to someone who:
(a) Is even boycotting CHINESE products.
(b) Agrees with the statements made about Iraq made by damburger.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You, sir, are hilarious. Thanks.
Stick Men
I looked at your blog and it's a crazy mix of religion, conspiracy and anti-gravity. Very funny.
Stick Men
You are interesting.
Stick Men
So if it's going to change the world for the better, why not just put it on line so we can all try to make one?
Stick Men
I have just looked at enginewow.htm and your first misunderstanding is, "compressing a free gas like nitrogen -or just plain air- presses energy into the air -stored in the air- but the various squeezed molecules move more slowly, lowering the temperature."
Compressing a gas heats it up. The molecules are closer together and the number of collisions between them, and their average speed, increases.
The heat can then be removed with a heat exchanger, reducing the temperature, pressure and therefore energy content of the gas.
I'll read the rest later, but I'll warn you, I don't believe Bible (or any other) prophecies. It is always very fishy when someone tries mixing them in with "science" or "engineering." They (prophecies) and the system upon which they are based are the very antithesis of true science (and engineering).
Stick Men
Certainly, when a gas expands, it becomes cold and this is how refrigerators work. In a real-life situation, when you compress a gas, it becomes hot. Some of that heat is radiated (or conducted or convected) away, so that when the gas expands it is colder than it was at first. This is entropy in action, one of the Laws of Thermodynamics.
The reason an air hose feels cold is because it is removing heat from your skin faster than stagnant air.
Science does not depend on names or credentials, only independently verifiable experimental evidence. [Fred Hoyle, for example, is often quoted by Jehova's Witnesses where his religiously-biased speculation regarding the origins of live support their beliefs. The man was clever, qualified but biased none the less.]
What about all the Biblical prophecies which haven't happened? People have been foretelling the End of the World "since god was a boy" and it still hasn't happened. We know that the Earth will probably be around for another 4.5 billion years. Whether the human race manages to last the next 100 is up for debate based on our propensity for greed and war, but I'd bet on the Earth still being here.
There is no experimental evidence for "god" and no reason to believe that the Bible is any more real than any other religious text. I don't even think it was meant to be a source of future predictions or a literal explanation of anything.
One thing's for sure, if you could efficiently remove the nitrogen from the air going into an internal combustion engine, you could probably remove a lot of the pollution.
Molecular nitrogen is pretty inert. Yes it forms compounds in the heat and pressure of an internal combustion engine, but I think you'll find that there is no energy to be gained. In fact, I'd bet that it's endothermic.
Using the forward motion of a vehicle to compress air is not "free." It slows the vehicle down.
Stick Men
You completely miss my point.
If you want people to take you seriously, you will have to use scientific terms correctly. You will have to base your claims upon logical reasoning and sound premises.
You should also keep myth and superstition out of discussions regarding objective reality.
The best two point I can deduce from what you have written so far are:
1: You have an engine that runs on compressed air. (Fair enough that's not unreasonable). Since compressed air cools when it expands, if you can heat that air, you can get more power out of the engine. (Also fair enough). Some famous guy added heat to the decompressing air from ambient air (i.e. a heat exchanger). He didn't get his car to go very fast. You correctly realised that adding more heat would give the engine more output, making the car faster. Your method for achieving this was by heating the expanding gas (mixing it?) with hot steam. Yes, that will work. How this is an improvement, cost and efficiency wise, over existing engines is anyones guess.
2: You have strong irrational beliefs in mythological prophecy which you sincerely believe in and want everyone else to know about.
As I originally stated, you are amusing, and pretty harmless.
Stick Men