Hikers May Have Found Fossett Items

An Anonymous reader writes "CNN is reporting 'A weathered sweat shirt, cash and a pilot license with Fossett's name were found Tuesday near Mammoth Lakes, police Chief Randy Schienle said.' The license did not have a photo. '"We're not certain that it belongs to Steve Fossett, but it certainly has his name on the ID," Schienle said.'"

Comments

The body?

[Anonymous Coward]

The body is being kept in a cooler offsite, for a conference tomorrow in California

oblig.

[Anonymous Coward]

CRIKEY!

Re:oblig.

[Mr Abstracto]

*face-palm*

It's a hoax, people.

[mcrbids]

Ok, so a world-renowned pilot takes off in 2,000 pounds of airplane, steel, fuel, and glass, What's found? A partially burned piece of some of the most flammable things on the plane, including a very small piece of PLASTIC that happens to have his name on it.

But no body, no 1,000 pounds of steel, no bits of rubber, no airplane seat bits, just a few, highly flammable personal items (clothing, ID) that happens to have the name "Steve Fosset" on it.

What are the odds?

This is a hoax.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[TheMidnight]

In other news, a salon discount card with Amelia Earheart's name and picture was found floating in the South Atlantic by a passing schooner.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[tekrat]

That's 'cause the ALIENS took 'im.

And they kept the plane.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Itsallmyfault]

Nothing in any of the reports I've read said anything about the license being "partially burned"... and the hoaxer had so much money laying around he decided he'd add $1,000 to the find?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[MichaelSmith]

This is a hoax.

Yeah but who is the hoaxer?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

The ALIENS saw his flight around the world and thought, "hey we can take this human and make him fly our space ships!"

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

The debris can be spread over a very large area. In the mountains a 1,000 feet can be a long distance and undergrowth can easily hide a small plane that has been shattered. Also his body might have been dragged away by animals as well as being thrown from the plane as it crashed. Bodies can be spread over miles with large aircraft.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

To me, that would be an expensive hoax, because that would have to be turned in. If the license turns out to be faked, then it might be an even more expensive hoax if a prosecutor tries to file a suit for perpetrating fraud.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah... if he got hit by a missle.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Jeff1946]

From the photo in a newscast I saw there were at least half a dozen $100.00 dollar bills. Doubt anyone would leave these around for a hoax.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[mortonda]

Ok, so a world-renowned pilot takes off in 2,000 pounds of airplane, steel, fuel, and glass, What's found? A partially burned piece of some of the most flammable things on the plane,

Have you seen the remains of the towers on 9/11? It's bizarre what can come out of a catastrophic event.

I'm not saying it's genuine or fake, but your criteria doesn't prove anything either.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can see in the pictures of the license that it is "partially burned"...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Inner_Child]

Nonsense! Everyone knows that aliens use video games to determine the worth of a pilot.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[plasmacutter]

Ok, so a world-renowned pilot takes off in 2,000 pounds of airplane, steel, fuel, and glass, What's found? A partially burned piece of some of the most flammable things on the plane,

Have you seen the remains of the towers on 9/11? It's bizarre what can come out of a catastrophic event.

I'm not saying it's genuine or fake, but your criteria doesn't prove anything either.

Stewart: "how do you know the twin towers collapsed there?"
Joe: "Well, I found a little plastic card and some chewing gum"
Stewart: "noo.. concrete chunks? no steel fragments?"
Joe: "nope"
Stewart: "with all due respect sir, this structure was several hundred meters tall"
Joe: "It's bizarre what survives a catastrophic event.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[flyingsquid]

The CNN article misses some important details. According to the AP:

The information on the pilot license -- including Fossett's name, address, date of birth and certificate number -- was sent in a photograph to the Federal Aviation Administration, and all matched the agency's records, spokesman Ian Gregor said.

"We're trying to determine the authenticity of the document," Gregor said.

The hiker, Preston Morrow, said he found an FAA identity card, a pilot's license, a third ID and $1,005 in cash tangled in a bush off a trail just west of the town of Mammoth Lakes on Monday. He said he turned the items over to local police Wednesday after unsuccessful attempts to contact Fossett's family.

So our hoaxer forges 3 separate IDs, in one case getting all the original information that was on Fossett's FAA card, and adds $1005? That's one heck of a hoax. I suppose you could argue that's he's trying to get a reward from Fossett's rich widow for "finding" her husband's final resting place... but after he couldn't get ahold of the family's lawyers, he went to the police. Seems that would be the last thing a hoaxer would want to do, is get the police and authorities involved; I imagine forging federal IDs is a pretty serious offense. Doesn't make sense.

True, finding the contents of his wallet off on their own is odd... but animals are curious and like to chew on things, especially when they're hungry. In the middle of winter in the Sierra mountains, a bear or fox might decide that a leather wallet was better to eat than nothing and tear the wallet apart for a snack. Bears in particular will eat damn near anything, edible or not.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[gregbot9000]

One little flaw, they may be highly flammable but they are also highly transportable. If the plane EXPLODED, and if the hikers were where it exploded, sure. If he survived and wandered off, they could be miles from where it crashed. Him ditching the wallet and cash I could see, I'd ditch it too if my useless giant fortune sat there mocking me as I die alone in the woods. The sweater doesn't make sense, that would be worth more then gold in that situation.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Free the Cowards]

Just for the record, FAA pilot information is public and it would be trivial to get all of the information that would appear on Fossett's pilot certificate. However, performing the actual forgery is well beyond simply finding that information, and this doesn't smell like a hoax to me. Also note that an FAA pilot certificate is not ID, or at least not photo ID, as it has no photo on it, just a name. In order to be valid it must be combined with government-issued photo ID. But it's still probably pretty harshly frowned upon to forge it.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[vux984]

One little flaw, they may be highly flammable but they are also highly transportable. If the plane EXPLODED, and if the hikers were where it exploded, sure.

1) depending on the environment the hikers could have walked within 50 yards from the crash site and not seen it.

2) even if he didn't survive, or died away from the crash site, animals could have wandered off with stuff either from the crash site, or from the site where he passed away.

As someone else said a bear might easily be interested in taking a bite out of a leather wallet, or briefcase. It might also rip through a bag cotaining perhaps a sweater, and then strew its contents of anything it wasn't interested in along it path. Contents which might be moved further by weather or other animals...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[SpacePirate20X6]

Files a suit against who, exactly?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[MrMista_B]

Bullshit.

Ever heard of a little something called wind? How about wildlife? Water?

Things move and get moved, especially if they start a couple thousand feet up in the air. That's kinda just how things work.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[myth_of_sisyphus]

People in the later stages of hypothermia engage in 'shedding' of clothes. They think they are hot so they start taking off articles of clothing, leaving a trail. This is often how rescuers find bodies, by following the trail of clothing to a frozen stiff. This was how they found the husband of the James Kim family who made a wrong turn in California about a year ago. The family stayed in the car while the husband went on walkabout. They followed the trail of clothing to his frozen corpse.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[BrowserCapsGuy]

I wonder if the money has been tested to see if it's counterfeit? If it is that would make the hoax easier to afford.

Although from a potential "time spent in jail" point of view this would still be a stupid hoax and hoaxer.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Haoie]

At least we know it wasn't for the insurance money.

He was pretty rich already.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[MrNaz]

+1 awesome childhood reference!

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly, you've never seen a plane crash site up close..

Thump into a big mountain at 120km/hr and your stuff gets scattered over a remarkably wide area.

Contrary to what you see in the movies, the fireball is not inevitable (especially if the pilot turned off the gas before making that "unscheduled off-airport landing", or they crashed because of the second most common cause: running out of fuel)

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[rusty0101]

Of course the fact that no one has bothered to look for a crash in the area where the id and possible clothing were found, because everyone focused on an area more than 50 miles away, has no impact on your claim that this is a hoax.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right next to Jim Gray's ham radio license.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Maybe the person that turns in the fake ID, if they find that person knew it was a fake.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Forbman]

He & family was from california, but they got lost in the woods of southern oregon taking a "shortcut" over to the coast from I-5...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[MadnessASAP]

The technical term for "unscheduled off-airport landing" is a CFIT or "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" which is what occurs when a perfectly good airplane at normal attidude and speed with a pilot who is in complete control of the aircraft happens to have misplaced the mountain in relation to himself.  But I would beleive the the late Steve did not in fact suffer a CFIT or more likelu suffered a loss of control onset by something or other and failed to recover due to some other thing and collided with the ground.<p>
PS. I used to be in RCAC and read ALOT of aviation accident reports, the way they phrase the things at times can be downright hilarious.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[xant]

Not to mention the "reward" would likely be in the amount of $1005.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

your mom.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[ShadowFalls]

Why is it insane to think that the plane crashed for any whatever reason, and the guy survived? Wouldn't be the first person to survive a plane crash. It can take awhile to find a plane when you aren't looking in the right place, especially if the plane had a navigation problem and ended up flying off-course.

Also, he could have survived the plane crash and traveled some distance but didn't get too far due to injuries. If he discovered the lake, it would be certainly possible he cleaned up, drank a little, etc. and left the stuff behind when emptying his pockets and the shirt from perhaps being hot.

It wouldn't be too hard for someone to know what shirt he was wearing the day he left or confirm it was in fact his or not. Might even be able to identify fingerprints on the items if he had any on record or if you checked for fingerprints on his possessions.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Macman408]

No, it's not. The certificate has a small tear taken out of it. The other IDs didn't look to have fared quite as well, but also don't show any obvious burn marks - they're torn, tattered, and dirty. A year of exposure to the elements probably caused all the damage you see to those papers and the bills.

More plausible: He was able to get the plane on the ground, probably destroyed it in the process, suffered significant injuries, and was unable to get help. He may have left some items behind, dropped them, or perhaps his body was disturbed by wildlife. I expect they'll find more evidence upon searching more thoroughly.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because as we all know, the remnants of a crashed plane and pilot tend to form a nice little pile by the roadside, right?

On the return visit, they found a Nautica fleece pullover and left it at the scene, anchored by a rock.

Baumwohl theorized that Fossett's plane may have hit a nearby ridge or mountainside, ejecting the pilot. No body was found near the other materials because bears or mountain lions may have dragged it off, he said.

source

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[OverlordQ]

But no body, no 1,000 pounds of steel, no bits of rubber, no airplane seat bits, just a few, highly flammable personal items (clothing, ID) that happens to have the name "Steve Fosset" on it.

Who said it burned first? Maybe it broke apart and then burned. Maybe it didn't burn at all.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[v1]

It's more likely the plane is somewhere else. He may have crash-landed, survived but injured, and collapsed and died a mile or more away from the crash site, where he was eaten by the locals in the woods. If it's at the bottom of a lake somewhere, it may be some time before it's found, even if they now have a better idea where to look.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Locutus]

ever seen a bear drag a body away for a midnight snack? Atleast one article I read on this had some cop or sheriff or something say that many times they don't find bodies because of the large animals in those wilderness areas.

As far as finding the plane goes, it was covered with snow when the plane was lost so it was not going to be very easy to find if it went down in a very wooded area. the best time to look was probably spring before the ground cover bloomed and trees filled out.

I don't find it all that odd. My guess is that they atleast now have a 10-20 mile radius to search with a much higher probability of finding the wreckage.

LoB

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Locutus]

the sweater, once hypothermia starts setting you skin starts to feel like it is burning hot. You'll start pulling off clothing thinking you are burning up when it is just the opposite and you've now accelerated you demise. so it is not odd if he did indeed survive a crash. It could also have been pulled off his body by animals but there would be blood and other damage indicating how it was removed. There's been little info on the sweater.

LoB

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[darkmeridian]

I think the "hoax" crowd neglects the possibility that Fossett survived the crash and walked towards what he thought was civilization. The Lady Be Good" was a US bomber that went down in the desert during World War II. The crew bailed out and some of the survivors walked over a hundred miles in the scorching desert with only a very limited supply of food and water. Perhaps Fossett crash-landed and tried to survive off the land awaiting rescue. He might have became disoriented and left his ID and belongings behind, or even may have sought shelter in some gully and died there.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[plasmacutter]

To the mods:

WHOOOSH!

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's Fossett's hoax.

Dun dun dun...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so a world-renowned pilot takes off in 2,000 pounds of airplane, steel, fuel, and glass, What's found? A partially burned piece of some of the most flammable things on the plane, including a very small piece of PLASTIC that happens to have his name on it.

But no body, no 1,000 pounds of steel, no bits of rubber, no airplane seat bits, just a few, highly flammable personal items (clothing, ID) that happens to have the name "Steve Fosset" on it.

What are the odds?

This is a hoax.

It's easy .. he threw out his ID and stuff while the plane was going down so there'd be no mistake as to his identity. Being an experienced pilot, he probably understood there's a good chance it would all get burned up in the crash, and that it might not be found for years. My guess is that they'll find the wreck over the next couple weeks, thanks to him doing that.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[evilviper]

What's found? A partially burned piece of some of the most flammable things on the plane, including a very small piece of PLASTIC that happens to have his name on it.

Nobody said anything about the findings being burned, partially or otherwise.

But no body, no 1,000 pounds of steel,

Large, bulky items tend to stay right where they were put... Smaller and lighter items get picked up by winds, water (streams, rivers, etc.), etc.

just a few, highly flammable personal items (clothing, ID)

Yes, because the real world is just like the movies... where every crash causes an explosion and a raging inferno, even when the vehicle has run out of gas.

Which is why there are no undiscovered crash sites, since someone always notices the raging inferno... And of course you don't actually find a downed plane, because noting remains after the necessary conflagration...

This is a hoax.

You are a moron.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[ozmanjusri]

Even more expensive than that 'cos they've faked the wreckage of a small plane near where the other stuff was found.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[MaskedSlacker]

You apparently know nothing of the legal system. Pray the RIAA doesn't come after you, you'll be doomed. Firstly, prosecutors file charges, not suits. Secondly, at worst all they could be guilty of is filing a false police report. There is no fraud.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Chris Mattern]

no 1,000 pounds of steel, no bits of rubber, no airplane seat bits

Geez, some people just have an inborn "It's a hoax/conspiracy/plot" reflex, don't they? They've *found* your 1000 pounds of steel, guy.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Dan East]

They've already found wreckage, so this is basically a sure thing. The real question is did Fossett survive the crash, and if so where did he go on-foot. If he died were his remains consumed by wild animals (wild cats and bears), possibly making it impossible to ever recover them.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[budgenator]

well since he was a world record cross-country skier it's not impossible that the items were found a considerable distance from the crash site and his body maybe found quite a ways from the found items as well.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[budgenator]

It's not too far fetched for the person finding the items to not be in on any hoax. Fossett himself may have planted the items to mark his trail for rescuers as well, he would assume that the wreckage would be found, leaving a trail wouldn't be unresonable.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Skuld-Chan]

They did find wreckage nearby where these hikers found these artifacts:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gfmXbQn-RFLHSjd8_s23ytiM6OVAD93I5P5O0

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[djupedal]

>They've already found wreckage [bloomberg.com], so this is basically a sure thing

Having actually searched for, and found, missing persons and aircraft wreckage on the ground in that general location in the Sierras, I can tell you that there are many more undiscovered crash sites than you might believe. The odds are good that it could be any of dozens of aircraft that have gone missing in recent years, including the one that carried Fossett, but not good enough to be a 'sure thing'. This is why they have to go in and make sure.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Cormacus]

The hiker, Preston Morrow, said he found an FAA identity card, a pilot's license, a third ID and $1,005 in cash tangled in a bush off a trail just west of the town of Mammoth Lakes on Monday.

I wonder if the hiker bothered to look *up* ?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

after all, a "terrorist" passport was found at wtc feet after they collapsed... so with this in mind everything's possible ! :-)

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[coopaq]

He was no fool. If there was a serious problem he may have thrown items out. Could have even been a bread crumb trail. We will know more when the area is searched.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

"He and his family were from California, . . ."

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also a great geek reference:

http://www.digitalmonkeybox.com/the_last_starfighter.htm

One of the most memorable things about The Last Starfighter and the reason why it made film history is that all of the special effects shots are done with CGI. CGI in 1984 was a really big deal. The only other film that used computers as much as Starfighter was Tron, and that was entirely in a computer environment. The Last Starfighter was different because it tried to integrate the CGI shots into what was supposed to be reality. Even when I had first watched this film as a kid, I thought something was weird about the ships, but weird in a cool way because they moved around a lot more realistically than in other sci-fi films. While the effects look pretty dated, they aren't too distracting from the storyline.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[ptrace]

If the "license" is one of the new FAA issued pilots certificates (credit card plastic w/ hologram), it would have to be a pretty sophisticated hoax to forge it. It's true it does not have a photo, but it does have several anti-forgery countermeasures. Along with his name, it contains all of his vital stats and his certificate number. I'm sure the FAA could easily identify if it's a fake. If it's one of the old paper certificates, it probably could be forged. The article does not mention if the certificate was "paper or plastic".

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you're kinda regretting shouting this down as a hoax right about now. Or did the hiker plant the wrecked plane as part of this ruse as well?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[ptrace]

I've now seen other articles with pictures of the certificate and it is the new "credit card" style. It's true that you can look up airman info on the FAA database, but it will not divulge the certificate number. If it has address, vitals and matches his certificate number as verified by the FAA, I would say it's genuine or a very sophisticated hoax.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[smellsofbikes]

*MY* pilot certificate was printed on a laser printer, in black, in the middle of an 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper. I had to cut it out with scissors and get it laminated. If Fossett didn't bother with the lamination step, it would be pretty easy to DIY.

(I was somewhat annoyed, given that I'd spent $5000 for that bit of paper, that it wasn't just a little fancier.)

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I was referring to. That's a movie I watched in my childhood. It's a childrens' movie. Or at least, an adolescents' movie.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[c10]

I'm pretty sure the plane made it to the ground by now.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a hoax...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Creepy]

in addition, more recent news confirms the aircraft wreckage found is probably his.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[camperdave]

There are better things to "breadcrumb" your trail with than your money and ID. Green money does not contrast well with green foliage. As you say, he was no fool.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[darkrowan]

How does it feel to eat crow the next day?
Plane has been found. Body has not been found. I'll tell ya what the hoax is: Fossett's dead. No, unless they find the body I'm going to take a bet that he ain't.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Free the Cowards]

Except that the photo of his alleged things clearly shows a new-style plastic-from-the-start certificate complete with hologram. Kind of hard to forge that.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[UnknowingFool]

Well, some of the items that were described are light and could have been carried by wind, animals, etc. Second, since we don't know what happened to Fossett we cannot assume that the plane crashed intact; the plane may have broken up before it hit the ground scattering the wreckage over a large area. Also not every plane crash happens in an open field. If the area where the plane crashed was heavily wooded, it would be difficult to spot especially if it broke up before hitting the ground. For those that are skeptical that finding a plane is hard, there was a story earlier this year of a North Carolina woman who went missing after leaving work one night. She lost control of her car and crashed her truck in a ravine 100ft off a heavily-traveled US highway. Because of the heavy vegetation, she wasn't found for 5 days.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[malraid]

In other news, famed designer Calvin Klein is presumed dead after underwear with his name was found floating in the Atlantic Ocean

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Alzheimers]

Even stranger, the underwear appears to have been there since 1955

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Candid88]

"You apparently know nothing of the legal system."

If you think someone presenting a fake ID to the police and pretending it to be of a deceased person isn't in for serious charges, then you sir, must know nothing of the legal system.

"There is no fraud."
Fake driving licenses do tend to be looked upon by most police forces as fraud.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Artifex]

Even more expensive than that 'cos they've faked the wreckage of a small plane near where the other stuff was found.

And the fake plane has his tail number on it, it was confirmed by the sheriff late last night.

"hoax!" - fool :)

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like the plane that hit the Pentagon and disintigrated upon impact

HAhaha - my captcha is "asinine"

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Artifex]

>They've already found wreckage [bloomberg.com], so this is basically a sure thing

Having actually searched for, and found, missing persons and aircraft wreckage on the ground in that general location in the Sierras, I can tell you that there are many more undiscovered crash sites than you might believe. The odds are good that it could be any of dozens of aircraft that have gone missing in recent years, including the one that carried Fossett, but not good enough to be a 'sure thing'. This is why they have to go in and make sure.

The tail number matches.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

News sites are reporting that wreckage of the plane has been found near where the hikers found the cash and license.

Apparently the plane flew into the side of a steep cliff and, between the impact with the cliff and shortly thereafter an impact with the ground below, there were not many big pieces left to find. I guess Fossett wasn't wealthy enough to afford a plane with radar?

As for a body, a year in mountains full of hungry wildlife doesn't do much to preserve remains. They might find bone fragments in some nearby bear shit...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[stonedcat]

Just curious, "by the locals" did you mean people or not people?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[jemtallon]

But wouldn't they need to prove the person who found it knew it was fake and/or made it? Otherwise someone could've made this fake and planted it for someone to find and the person who turned it in would be a victim of the hoax as well. Just my toughts - I know nothing of the legal system except what I learned in high school and it seems most of that was thrown out by the Bush administration.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Locke2005]

Uh, Wednesday night they found the wreckage of the plane with the N number on the tail... still no sign of Fosset's remains, but this must be one hell of an elaborate "hoax"!

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[goatpunch]

Wow, it's quite the hoax- he faked the whole plane wreckage... ahem. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gfmXbQn-RFLHSjd8_s23ytiM6OVAD93IF7SO0

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[goatpunch]

So they have find his wallet, and a plane with his tail number, hmm it sound like there's a change it could be him...

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[addaon]

The new ones (just got mine last week!) are blue and green plastic, much nicer. Still no photo, of course.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's with all you paranoid idiots!

The plane is his. They matched the "N" number.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[dargon]

Uhm wasn't husband of the James Kim family, James Kim?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have made a lot of assumptions, and thus you have concluded that this is a hoax? First, you assumed that the pilot's certificate is plastic, but TFA did not indicate this. Second, you assume that a very experienced pilot could not have managed to crash-land his plane, and avoid an explosion. It is possible that he may have crash-landed, survived, and then hiked for some distance. Presumably, this is why a search team is going to return to the area...they might be able to find his plane.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[evilviper]

The crew bailed out and some of the survivors walked over a hundred miles in the scorching desert

By "over" you of course mean "under", right?

"crew members trekked 85 miles north to the point at which the remains were found;"

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Hatta]

What does the 'I' in 'CGI' stand for?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[geminidomino]

Image[s|ry], I believe.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Just for the record, FAA pilot information is public and it would be trivial to get all of the information that would appear on Fossett's pilot certificate.

You can opt out of making the information public, though it looks like Fossett didn't opt out. However, the certificate number isn't public.

A061278400JAMES STEPHEN FOSSETT 401 S LA SALLE ST STE 200 CHICAGO IL 60605-2999 GL2022007022008

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[coopaq]

Sorry for double reply.

Plane found:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Free the Cowards]

Good point about the certificate number. I hadn't realized this, but it appears that you are indeed correct.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it burned down, fell over, and then it sank into the swamp.
Too soon?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[myth_of_sisyphus]

Yes there were a few mistakes in that post, but the meat of it, 'shedding', was reliable info. And yes, the husband of the James Kim family would be, ummm, well, let's see, uhh....James Kim. Stupid phrasing. I meant the Kim family. (And I didn't mean to disparage his or his family's suffering by throwing in the word 'corpse'. I remember watching that whole thing play out on the news and I felt very bad for them. I hope they're doing OK, I lost my dad when I was a kid too.)

Maybe I shouldn't write a post so fast in the future.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[labalicious]

For those who don't get the reference, he's talking about a movie called The Last Starfighter. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087597/

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get it here.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[bill_mcgonigle]

What are the odds?

100% that somebody is impatient. :)

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[NotmyNick]

The crew bailed out and some of the survivors walked over a hundred miles in the scorching desert

By "over" you of course mean "under", right?

"crew members trekked 85 miles north to the point at which the remains were found;"

It established the fact that the crew bailed out at 2:00 A.M. on 5 April 1943; that Lieutenant John S. Woravka, the bombardier, failed to join the main team after bailout; that eight of the crew members trekked 85 miles north to the point at which the remains were found; and that Sergeants Shelley, Moore and Ripslinger continued on in search of help while Lieutenants Hatton, Toner, Hays and Sergeants Adams and LaMotte waited, too exhausted to continue....

On 12 May 1960, a British Petroleum Company work party in the area discovered Staff Sergeant Guy E. Shelley 21 miles northwest of the location of the first five crewmembers....

On 17 May, one the the helicopters conducting an air sweep spotted the remains of Technical Sergeant Harold J. Ripslinger on the eastern slope of a high dune. He had been located an additional 26 miles north of Sergeant Shelley....

In August 1960 another British Petroleum team discovered remains of Lieutenant John S. Woravka who had failed to link up with the other eight....

Unfortunately, one crew member, Staff Sergeant V.L. Moore was not found.

85+21+26+?>100

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[digitalarena]

This is quite likely. According to one statistic I read 5% of Americans claim to have been abducted by aliens. That is more than 10 million abductions.

How big is the average assylum in the US?

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[Candid88]

IANAL, but yes, that would seem right.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[CrazedSanity]

So much talk about bears and wild animals thinking the wallet might be tasty, or a bag... what about the body? Seems like, after this much time, the dude's dead. The animals probably thought he was a mighty tasty treat... and the damn "dogs" buried his bones for a nice snack later.

NOTE TO SELF: remember to reschedule that class on sensitivity.

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[CrazedSanity]

...even when the vehicle has run out of gas.

I'm pretty sure the main source of an explosion isn't the gasoline, but the fumes it puts off. Drop a match on the ground and throw gasoline on it (don't pour beside). Now throw another match into that "empty" container. Which one makes the bigger boom? Maybe I'm wrong... (looks like I'll have to test that tonight).

Re:It's a hoax, people.

[evilviper]

Technically, you need fumes for an explosion, but that's just a quick flash inside the fuel tank... You probably won't even see any external flames.

To get a fireball, and/or any sustained burning, you need copious quantities of fuel. And an average person doesn't know the difference between an explosion and a conflagration.

Your experiment probably won't work, because gasoline will extinguish an open flame rather than igniting. Sparks, and or hot metal will work much better.

What is a pilot's "license?"

[Anonymous Coward]

This always bothers me. I'd like to see once in the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations) where it uses the word license.

It is a pilot CERTIFICATE not a license.

On another note, it'd be nice to see some closure for Fossett. I've met him a few times, and he's a great person. He's an equally amazing pilot.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[maglor_83]

In the article, it says certificate, not license.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[Anonymous Coward]

He's an equally amazing pilot.

Except for this one time...

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[Skrapion]

Lighten up, Sparky. They're the same thing.

If you're that bothered about word choice, why aren't you bothered that the USA decided to use a word which doesn't accurately describe the document's purpose?

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I know several private pilots, just single prop guys though. I'm pretty sure I've heard them all call them licenses at one time or another.

CNN did use the correct terminology, but that's expected of a more formal news site. Given that Slashdot is a lot less formal, I hardly consider this licence/certificate thing to be a problem compared to other editorial issues on this site.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[Locutus]

you don't know that. what happened could just have easily shown how skilled he was at piloting. Conditions such as a big tree, could have caused a fatal end in an otherwise fantastic recovery and landing. There aren't many places to land up there without hitting something big and hard.

LoB

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[thogard]

The license is the governments permission and the certificate is the bit of paper saying so.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[hey!]

A good pilot, I have been told, is one who is extremely methodical, and follows the procedures he has been trained to do.

I suppose that means to be an amazing pilot, it helps to be a good pilot who can, at times, be a bad pilot. Certainly you see that in business all the time. An amazing businessman has to do things that go against common wisdom from time to time, but ones that do it all the time are just bad at business.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[MichaelSmith]

There aren't many places to land up there without hitting something big and hard.

True but in a light aircraft you should be able to glide to lower altitude (and flat land) in the event of an engine failure. Of course if the pilot fails the airplane will almost certainly hit the big hard thing.

Now that I think about it, a medical problem is actually a good fit with the facts. The pilot couldn't declare an emergency. The aircraft flew on until it hit a mountain.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[AK Marc]

My certificate saying I have permission to drive is called my Driver's License right on the front.

Re:What is a pilot's "license?"

[thogard]

Yet that plastic doesn't give you permission to drive on the roads as it is only the record of a past grant of permission. A bit in a database somewhere is what gets checked if anyone needs to know if you have a license. If the bit says no, the plastic is useless (except as an ID). So which is the real license? The database or the plastic?

Is this a plane?

[obidobi]

http://www.multimap.com/s/P1FMT19P

Re:Is this a plane?

[obidobi]

some more info here

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fossett2-2008oct02,0,1608495.story

Re:Is this a plane?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to that article, Fossett's items were found about 2 miles west of Devils Postpile National Monument, in this general area. It's fairly rugged and remote area, and unsuited for landing a plane, but if he survived and was able to do the logical thing (head down-valley), he would have ended up in the national monument and found roads and other people.

Re:Is this a plane?

[Kadagan AU]

Looks like the found his plane today!

Location

[Anonymous Coward]

I had some time to burn so I entered a few things in Google Maps. Here's the best map I could come up with using the takeoff location provided by Wikipedia. There's no option for directions by plane, so I went with the walking option. Anyway ... assuming this isn't some stupid hoax, the point is (if there really is one) that the searches last year were all focused on Nevada if I remember correctly. But from the location being reported and from the map, you can see that the location they're talking about is A) in California, and B) pretty much due south from where Fossett took off from.

Re:Location

[inKubus]

There's a pass there also. If you were going to cross the Sierras in a small plane, you would definitely go down to Mammoth, especially if you were going to L.A. And you never cross mountains perpendicularly, you always approach at an angle.

So, either he's dead in the mountain somewhere and his stuff was carried there by a bear or something OR it's a treasure hunt or something. And he's out of the country with a new name, new face, and no mortgage backed security holdings. ;)

Re:Location

[jd]

As I see it, there are essentially three possibilities. First, Steve's instrumentation failed and he flew not only in the wrong direction but also ended up flying into the lake. Unlikely, given his experience, but even the best sometimes over-rely on instrumentation, and I've spoken to some damn good WW2 pilots who have assured me that prior to reliable instrumentation, people often took a fatal wrong turning in a cloud, or mistook a really smooth river for a runway. All in all, I consider this unlikely but within the realms of possibility.

The second option is that he crashed somewhere relatively near to where the belongings were found, where "relatively near" would be the distance you could expect a hardened survivor with plenty of experience of extreme conditions to be able to travel given his supplies and the availability of natural resources. In this case, it is possible he deliberately left a marker to (a) avoid walking in circles, and (b) inform searchers he'd survived that long and was in that general proximity. It's not unknown for people to leave such markers, and if there was a reason to believe the crash site would never be found (such as being in a lake), this could well be the only sort of marker he could realistically leave.

The third option - the most likely but also the most depressing - is that he got clear of the wreckage but was killed by a bear or other large predator, and that what we are seeing is a location where such a predator decided to take a snack. If this is the case, we might still locate the wreck, but this may well be all we'll ever see of Steve Fossett.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you been anywhere near Mammoth Lakes? Aside from the bears, you make no sense.
 
Maybe you are talking about Lake Tahoe or Mono Lake as this "lake", but that is crazy too.

Being stranded near Mammoth is tolerable in Sept, but you'd be screwed for most of the year. I've encountered snow there in July.

Re:Location

[mortonda]

There was a website once with satellite photos to help look, does anyone remember what it was?

Kinda hard to tell from google maps, but something like this may be all that you can see...

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

As best as I can gather from various news reports, the recent evidence was found somewhere within a mile or two of 37Â39'58.93"N, 119Â 7'50.32"W, at an elevation of 10,100 ft.

While not entirely clear, the reports seem to indicate the IDs and cash were in the pocket of the sweater (it sounded like something a sailor would wear on his yatch). A feasible explanation of why this wasn't found near the plane was that it departed the plane prior to landing (or impact). On the emergency landing checklist for most planes, one item is to open the door so you can get out faster after landing. If the sweater was on the floor or backseat (it was a tandem plane), the sweater could have blown out in the wind, and drifted to ground miles from where the plane ended up.

At any rate, the local sheriff, and hopefully the Civil Air Patrol, will be blanketing the area (it was outside last years search bounds), and hopefully come up with something in a few days. I spent a few hours looking around Google Earth and found about 10 potential impact sites, though nothing conclusive (and I don't even know if the imagery is newer than the crash).

Re:Location

[jd]

"Few days" seems to be excessive. Perhaps. News just in: Wreckage has been reported near where the material was found, but the exact location is still being kept secret.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

"The third option"

Most large predators have been hunted by humans to the point that a "natural selection have" favored animals that stay clear of humans. Its very uncommon that healthy bears, not provoked, not protecting their offspring, attacks humans.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

>he got clear of the wreckage but was killed by a
>bear or other large predator, and that what we
>are seeing is a location where such a predator
>decided to take a snack

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/29/

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

There are not many preditors that will take a go at a live human in that part of the country. It's not impossible, but unlikely.

More plausible scenario: survives crash with some broken bones, dies from exposure trying to make it to civilization, coyotes devour corpse, paper/plastic on corpse blows away in the wind, later to be found by comparatively-nearby hikers.

Not a good way to go, but not unprecedented.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

and the darwin award goes to.. Fossett.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

Much more likely to have died of injuries after crawling out of the wreckage then to have been eaten by a predator. Scavenger, much more likely, but still probably not.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

The fourth option is that he staged his disappearance to evade debt, and that these particular items turn up so conveniently now because he planted them there. The first trace of him in months is ID papers, but the plane is nowhere to be found - really?

Re:Location

[NeoSkandranon]

Enough idiots feed wild animals that it's not at all unusual to find bears that are just about fearless when it comes to people, due to their experience that humans = food.

If Fossett encountered such a bear, and had food, or smelled of it, he could easily be seriously injured or killed if the animal tried to "mug" him for a snack

Re:Location

[SafeMode]

I vote for #3. He probably died on impact. His belongings carried with his body by scavengers. But hey, it's probably how he was expecting to go anyway, during one of his record breaking attempts.

Re:Location

[turtledawn]

It was set up on Amazon's Mechanical Turk page, though when I went to my bookmark last Thursday I got a page does not exist error. I haven't bothered to try navigating back to it from Amazon's front page.

Re:Location

[Anonymous Coward]

Now they found the plane, so there goes your pet theory, pesky facts.

he bailed out...

[saleenS281]

if he jumped out of the plane it's ENTIRELY feasible that they found clothes and his ID, and no "plane parts".

Re:Why does this belong on Slashdot?

[Itsallmyfault]

http://slashdot.org/faq/editorial.shtml#ed700

Re:Why does this belong on Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posted by samzenpus. Slashdot's resident Idle section contributor.

A prank?

[CrAlt]

Looking at the photo of the items found something just doesn't look right.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fossett2-2008oct02,0,1608495.story

Look at the card in the center. It looks to "fresh" and clean compared to the rest.

Re:A prank?

[Cowclops]

The other card and money are paper. Pilots licenses are made out of plastic. It wouldn't get wrinkled/dirty like a piece of paper.

Re:A prank?

[Anonymous Coward]

They are made of plastic, now.
This just happened a few years ago. If no information on the license changed, there would not be a reason for him to have a plastic license, unless he just requested one.

Re:A prank?

[Cowclops]

Ok, but still makes the assumption thats an absurd hoax. Going with the safer assumption that its not a nearly pointless hoax: Its a plastic card in the picture, and plastic wouldn't get wrinkled like the paper does, which explains the original post's confusion over why "plastic" didn't get wrinkly and dirty like paper.

Re:A prank?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at the images a bit more, to me it would appear that he used a money clip judging from the folds in the bills and that some weathered more then others possibly indicating some stuff was in the center of the stack. Apparently no money clip was found however. The person who found the stuff thought things were odd regarding what was there and what wasn't. Anyone here happen to have been acquainted with Steve Fosset enough to know whether he used a money clip or not? Would think that if it was not clipped it would have been seperated by wind by now, rubber band would have held the stuff similarly but more likely to damage the money directly underneath it in a manner that the money doesn't show in that image, but would have broke down over time and dropped off.

Re:A prank?

[Free the Cowards]

Many of Fossett's exploits were performed outside of the US, and as I recall the plastic version swiftly became necessary to legally fly in other countries on the basis of a US certificate. That alone would be sufficient reason for him to have one. Other reasons would include adding a new rating, losing the old certificate, or just wanting to keep up with the latest shiny.

In any case, the certificate in that photo is most certainly the plastic kind. (The paper ones don't look anything like that.) You might argue about why he would have one, but the idea that the photo indicates something wrong solely because the item in the center isn't warped and dirty is simply broken.

Re:A prank?

[Anonymous Coward]

The other card and money are paper. Pilots licenses are made out of plastic. It wouldn't get wrinkled/dirty like a piece of paper.

My pilot's license is made out of paper.

Re:A prank?

[Mr Z]

Change of address, maybe?

The date of issue as seen in this photo looks to be 6 JUL 2007, which was about two months before he disappeared.

They sure didn't do a great job of blurring out the certificate number, did they? (Zoom in to read the print.)

Re:A prank?

[smellsofbikes]

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, *my* pilot cert is a piece of paper, printed in a laser printer, in black and white, and I had to cut it out of the middle of a full-size sheet and get it laminated myself. I got my license in 1999 (dec 31, as it so happens) and I bet Steve Fossett had his well before that, so I'm betting his is paper, too, unless he went and got it laminated.

Re:A prank?

[djbckr]

Nope, I have a pilots license. It's a little blue piece of *paper*.

Re:A prank?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Pilots licenses are made out of plastic.

Since when? Mine is made out of paper. Maybe new ones are but since they never expire you never get a new one (unless you request one).

Re:A prank?

[Cowclops]

Ok, and how is that contradictory to the fact that HIS pilot certificate, as shown in the image in question, is clearly not "paper and printed on a laser printer." Its plastic and identical to the one in my wallet right now. A larger resolution image of the certificate shows that the issue date is June 6 2007, just 6 days before I got mine.

As another poster addressed, the fact is that the license shown IN THE PICTURE is clearly the modern plastic version. Are you suggesting that an elaborate forgery (and expensive overall hoax, including the ~$1000 found with the wallet) was committed? And that its unlikely/impossible for him to have found a reason to get a new card? Like, acquiring a new rating, losing the old card, or just wanting something less flimsy?

I believe Occam's razor would require us to assume that it isn't an overcomplicated sham, and in reality probably a set of unlikely circumstances that lead to the wallet being found but not the aircraft wreckage. Ever drop something small and end up finding it somewhere completely different from where you thought you heard/saw it land? Case closed.

Re:A prank?

[smellsofbikes]

For the record I was replying to the statement 'pilot licenses are made out of plastic'.
A: there's no such thing as a pilot license: it's a certificate.
B: mine is not made of plastic. Apparently some are, but Fossett had his certificate for a very, very long time, and since mine's 10 years old and is paper, it is not unreasonable to assume that his, too, was paper.

I didn't look at the photographs. This is slashdot, after all.

Re:Why does this belong on Slashdot?

[andreyvul]

So Slashdot is as varied as Digg? [segfault]

Psuedocide

[RudeIota]

He wouldn't be the first person to fake his own death.

Andy Kaufman is a recent one I can think of.

Here's a quick list of some psuedocides. Obviously, it is not very complete though, since Andy Kaufman isn't listed... But I guess this kind of crap really happens. Perhaps, bored with living the life of a millionaire, Mr. Fossett decided to do something exciting, like "die". ;)

Re:Psuedocide

[abigor]

Andy Kaufman did not fake his death. That is a total urban legend, which is why it's not mentioned on that Wikipedia page.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/kaufman.asp

Re:Psuedocide

[RudeIota]

Thank you for that correction.

Kaufman was a very bad example then. There have certainly been others though, so the original premise of my reply still holds true, I guess.

Re:Psuedocide

[Schadrach]

Whilst the "Andy Kaufman returns" bit was clearly a hoax, I still don't necessarily believe that he *didn't* fake his own death. I just think he'd more likely be off cackling to himself about it, about having pulled a prank on literally everyone, leaving them all doubting what was going on for all this time. It just seems like the kind of stunt he'd pull.

After all, he is literally the kind of guy who'd come up with a successful routine, then invite another audience in and bore them to tears, intentionally, specifically because they are expecting the other routine. Because pulling the routine they were expecting out from under them *was* the joke.

Too bad my flash version isn't compatable

[Xamindar]

This CNN.com feature is optimized for Adobe Flash Player version 8 or higher. You are currently using Flash Player 10

Re:Too bad my flash version isn't compatable

[Gavagai80]

You must be using the binary 10 (2).

Re:Too bad my flash version isn't compatable

[Vectronic]

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/ ...

The money is mine.

[SlashSnot]

Listen, the plane was going down. I took his money. I lost a backpack on the landing, so I just need to get that money back. You can keep the shirt. Thanks, DB Cooper

Good Samaritan takes stuff

[Walkingshark]

15 minutes later old man comes out of lake after a refreshing swim and says, "Hey, who the fuck took my wallet and my shirt!?"

headline/CNN care about the photo for no reason

[JimBobJoe]

It's funny both the slashdot summary and CNN note that the police said the pilot's license didn't have a photo.

For good reason. Pilots' licenses don't have photographs. I think the police there have never seen anything like it and are just plain perplexed.

Re:headline/CNN care about the photo for no reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Pilots' licenses don't have photographs.

BFD -- neither does my amateur radio license. Not every Federal document/license/certificate has a photo.

Re:headline/CNN care about the photo for no reason

[not-my-real-name]

It's funny both the slashdot summary and CNN note that the police said the pilot's license didn't have a photo.

For good reason. Pilots' licenses don't have photographs. I think the police there have never seen anything like it and are just plain perplexed.

My pilot license does have a photo. It's of Orville and Wilbur Wright and the Wright Flyer.

Re:headline/CNN care about the photo for no reason

[Anonymous Coward]

But how can we know that the "James Stephen Fossett" pilot certificate is actually his without the photo?!? It seems that they've positively identified the cash as belonging to Benjamin Franklin, though.

Re:headline/CNN care about the photo for no reason

[bill_mcgonigle]

I think the police there have never seen anything like it and are just plain perplexed.

Ahem, plane perplexed.

AIA.

Go talk to the Perlan Project guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll tell you that Fossett was anything but "an amazing pilot". He wasn't exactly a terrible pilot, just nothing better than average, at best. What he did have was a willingness to fund adventures, so long as he was top dog.

His money was greatly appreciated, but the attention-seeking man was merely tolerated. He wasn't hated, but nor was he required, beyond the financial aspect of his participation. But Fossett loved the glory and limelight, so he made it a precondition of funding a venture that he be the public face of it.

Yes, I know this is going to be modded troll and flamebait, but at least I can say that I genuinely "knew" Fossett, and I don't like hearing people such as the OP claiming that Fossett was "an amazing pilot", when the fact is he couldn't have done shit without the help of the other people and pilots he funded.

Re:Go talk to the Perlan Project guys.

[gregbot9000]

I wouldn't think he was a "Great Pilot" especially by the nature of his not being found. I'm not saying it was his fault the plane went down, but it most definitely is his fault he didn't file any kind of flight plan or let anyone know where he was going for the search to look. As the saying goes "a good pilot knows how to navigate difficult situations, A Great pilot knows how to avoid them."

I see the same thing in motorcycles, there are really two types, those who ride for a year and those who ride forever. the ones who ride for a year are often the ones who think they are hot shit and end up going through someones windshield and then forbid their kids to have a bike 20 years latter. If someone thinks they have the skill to go 140 in rush hour traffic they probably don't.
His accidence reeks of over confidence and to me overconfidence is the #1 sign of a n00b especially when dealing with a machine that will kill you with 100% certainty if a single bolt comes lose. I see it in Motorcycles all day.

Re:Go talk to the Perlan Project guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, your point is well-made (I hate our whole hero-worship culture, too), but it isn't exactly a shocker: we all know the golden rule.

'Amazing pilot' claims aside, Fossett at least was willing to both spend his money and be in the thick of things and take a full share in requisite risks to life and limb.

I'd make some disparaging remark about risk-averse dilettante owners in other fields, but there's the X prize. I don't see John Carmack hoppin' in a flight suit, but I'm damn glad he and Richard Branson and others are funding entries for the X Prize challenge.

Since the X prize is a vanity thing that still manages to learn techical lessons that we largely respect here on slashdot, maybe we should concede that even 'just' putting up the money is a pretty damn important thing. And most engineers respect that sometimes smart money includes knowing when to use specialized talent (like jockeys and pilots).

Full circle: Fossett could have just sat on the ground. And I don't know beans about whether there were innovations funded to enable him to do his various record flights, but I'd bet *something* was learned. And jobs were created. Engineers acquired skill and experience. Pilots learned these things inside and out before the record attempts.

Props to Steve Fossett and a premature, preemptive, (although after declared-dead) memorial toast to Fossett. I'd rather we consider (and respect) his life than waste a moment's thought on most vapid, do-nothing celebrities.

Re:Go talk to the Perlan Project guys.

[EvilBudMan]

Maybe I gotta agree. Didn't he make some solo balloon flights though? Maybe that was bravery & luck than skill.

This is so ridiculous

[Korbeau]

That I can't afford but give you some Alexander Robotnick ProblÃmes d'Amour lyrics in reply: ... wait, I can't find them.

Some genuine news here.

[JavaManJim]

From the Mammoth Times.
Yawn,I used Google Earth to visit the Minarets and Shadow Lake area. No blue and white trash pile evident to my untrained eye. Then perhaps the Google picture was pre accident 2006. Oh well.

New discovery revives search for Fossett
Wednesday, 01 October 2008
Shortly after noon today, Mono County Sheriff Search and Rescue teams will begin a search for the wreckage of lost air-adventurer Steve Fossett's plane, which went down in the California/Nevada area a year ago September. The search is based on discovery of a sweater and three of Fossett's aviation ID cards in the Minarets on Monday by Preston Morrow, a local hiker who works at Kittredge Sports. The search will begin on the John Muir Trail between Dorothy and Shadow Lakes. Prior searches focused on land east of the Glass Mountains.

The California Highway Patrol helicopter from Fresno will fly in the search teams.

Fossett was declared dead in Feburary of this year.
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 01 October 2008 )

Source: http://www.mammothtimes.com/content/view/94652/1/

Re:Some genuine news here.

[jd]

Just in: Wreckage has been reported near to where the items were found, but the exact location is being kept a closely-guarded secret. They're due to swarm into the area of the reported wreckage pretty much first thing tomorrow.

Re:Some genuine news here.

[mpapet]

As someone that's hiked that area long ago, when they say The search will begin on the John Muir Trail between Dorothy and Shadow Lakes.

That is a *heck* of a lot of VERY rugged area above 8000ft and it's not like there's a long snow-free time up there. That they were able to find the wreckage is awesome. That's one reason why we pay taxes people.

Prior searches focused on land east of the Glass Mountains. Another *huge* area.

As an FYI, the area has all kinds of omnivores.

You guys should get out more, especially the conspiracy nuts. It's a beautiful area of our country. If that's too far away, visit a nearby National Park.

Re:Some genuine news here.

[JavaManJim]

I would like to hike that area. Flying around with Google Earth yes its surprising to see the ground drop away. I agree, its quite beautiful country.

Re omnivores reminds me of driving back from Colorado through the Texas Panhandle some years ago. My buddy and I stopped east of Dalhart in either Hutchinson or Roberts county. We had stopped to see a moon rise on the high plains where it blobs out of the far distance. Three AM too. Well we attracted the attention of two packs of coyotes. They howled a hundred yards out on both sides of the car. Soon they howled about ten yards away. I am a hunter and all that. But that raised the hairs on my neck. So we merely got in the car and drove away. A different story if one unarmed person had been walking way out there.

Thanks,
Jim

Re:Some genuine news here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so closely guarded.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_1954.html

Re:Some genuine news here.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a *heck* of a lot of VERY rugged area above 8000ft and it's not like there's a long snow-free time up there. That they were able to find the wreckage is awesome. That's one reason why we pay taxes people.

Too find dumbasses who fly into the side of a mountain.

Great, I just love spending $30K/yr on such worthwhile fucking projects!

Nothing wrong with that card, except...

[Nick Driver]

...it's got a bite taken out of the upper right hand corner.

Other than that, it looks pretty much the same as my private pilot certificate.

Animal hair found on items

[zymano]

Sad if he survived and an animal took him.

His Wikipedia mentions he was have financial problems and could have staged a suicide.

Re:Animal hair found on items

[Willy Wong]

He accidentally the finances.

I bet Hans Reiser would know where the remains are

[Anonymous Coward]

He has a knack for that sort of thing.

Maybe not

[tuxgeek]

There are these wild dogs running around in the Sierras. Commonly referred to as Coyotes. They grab a bite here and there, whenever the opportunity presents itself. They have been known to drag some tasty morsel to a more favorable spot to munch. Can be miles.

If the searchers expand their search from the find location, I'll bet they find the crash site.

But no body, no 1,000 pounds of steel, no bits of rubber, no airplane seat bits, just a few, highly flammable personal items (clothing, ID) that happens to have the name "Steve Fosset" on it.

Real airplane crashes are not like those you see on TV. Not everything explodes on impact. Small planes crashes usually just leave wreckage and carnage. Oh, and they are made of Aluminum, not steel. No sparks to ignite fuel or fumes.

He probably lost power and went down in trees. The trees clip off the wings and the fuselage smashes into rocks or ground.

I actually walked upon a fresh crash site while hiking in the Sierras many years ago. Some other hikers were there when I arrived. I didn't see it going down but noticed a wing embedded in a tree and went to investigate. It was pretty gruesome. 2 dead people and 1 survivor.

Re:Maybe not

[Bitsy Boffin]

Actually the Decathalon is rag and tube. Steel tube fuselage covered in fabric.

Oh, and...

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a not-cheap-to-forge hologram on 'em.

Yah, I have a mechanic's cert, and all that info is public. Same card will show my pilot rating someday.

Why would he have cash?

[HughJJorgan]

Why would someone on a pleasure flight over the Sierra Nevadas carry $1005 in cash with him?

Re:Why would he have cash?

[RichiH]

Because that's probably what his wallet contained when he hopped on the plain. It makes sense to take more money with you than you reasonably expect to spend during the day. When you own as much money as he did, that metric will adjust, as well.

Re:Why would he have cash?

[east coast]

If he was taking a suitcase full of cash I would say you have something but a guy as rich as Fossett probably just sees it as a normal amount to keep on him. I know people who never carry more than 20 dollars, some carry no less than a couple of hundred. What's the big deal?

Re:Why would he have cash?

[camperdave]

Why would someone on a pleasure flight over the Sierra Nevadas carry $1005 in cash with him?

To refuel the plane, perhaps?

Re:Why would he have cash?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was a millionaire I'd carry $1005 in cash with me simply because I could!

Re:Why would he have cash?

[UnknowingFool]

$1005 was all the money that was found. There could have been more. Mr. Fossett was somewhat rich and carrying a few grand in cash would not be out of the norm especially if, as one other commented noted, he would have to pay for airplane fuel when he landed.

Real breaking news

[kaos07]

Search crews have found some wreckage, apparently. No link because it's only a banner on CNN's website.

Re:Real breaking news

[Itsallmyfault]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431605,00.html

Re:Real breaking news

[dunezone]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html

Re:Real breaking news

[rta]

The NOTAM for the temporary flight restriction (no fly zone) just established.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_1954.html

No Hoax

[Talkischeap]

Crikey... you need to get out and do some backpacking in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

I've hiked around there for over 30 years, and Fosset's wrecked plane is somewhere up wind of the found items.

The article says the items were found in brush (where the wind likely blew them).

Things can blow for miles down some of those canyons.

It shouldn't be too difficult to find the wreckage with this new information.

Which department?

[jeremyp]

Who is Emelia Earhardt? Is she related to Amelia Earhart?

Re:Which department?

[east coast]

She's Amelia's second cousin who has been missing since an odd, but hilarious, kite flying mishap on the shores of the Outer Banks, you insensitive clod.

Not his license

[chord.wav]

The license did not have a photo. "We're not certain that it belongs to Steve Fossett, but it certainly has his name on the ID,"...

Oh yeah we all have "Steve Fosset" written in our pilot licenses, specially the ones that like to go hiking.

Why don't these self-proclaimed journalists don't do some research instead of coping and pasting the Reuters cable?

Do all pilot licenses have a photo?
Did his license had a photo?
Is it in fact a pilot license or they are not sure?

Re:Not his license

[Anonymous Coward]

FAA issued licenses do not have photos (thus his probably didn't either).

Pretty easy to tell that it is a pilot's license.

Many FAA licenses are paper (older ones), but newer ones may be plastic (mine is still paper, but I had it laminated so it would last).

That's some hoax. They even faked a plane wreck.

[bopo_the_mofo]

A HOAX? But they have found his plane: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4867968.ece

Idiots.

Re:I bet Hans Reiser would know where the remains

[elrous0]

Reiser said Fossett went back to Russia with "some Puerto Rican guy."

Fosset's Plane confirmed found

[BigGar']

From CNN:
Authorities found the plane Steve Fossett was flying when he disappeared last year, but they have not found the remains of the millionaire adventurer, the Madera County, California, sheriff said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html

Photo

[PhotoGuy]

Here's a site with a photo of the wreckage. Doesn't look like it was survivable...

CNN: Fossett plane found

[tedhiltonhead]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Mod parent up (and update story)

[Anonymous Coward]

The plane has been found, it appears to have crashed into a mountain "head-on."

Several reasons

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Main one: Google maps and the internet were used to recruit a lot of eyeballs in an attempt to find him. Many of the slashdot users were involved in either the online or physical search. So news of where he was found (and how the search missed him) is apropos.

Another: Fossett was an "air nerd" and funded a number of projects to push the envelope of aircraft, watercraft, and balloon technology. Some of these projects have been of interest to Slashdot users. He was a major customer of Rutan's Scaled Composites corporation, which later made Spaceship One.

I could go on.

Image of the area...

[PhotoGuy]

From what I've been able to piece together from various news stories, the hiker was hiking around Minaret's Lake when he found the items, and Minaret's Peak may have been the location of the crash.

Here's an image from Google Earth of the possible area, looking South-West-ish, which would have been the direction Fossett was heading. The Minaret's do kinda jump up quickly, could have just been an accidental controlled flight into terrain...

I see a few smudges here and there, but nothing that looks definitively like a plane (the Google data could be pre-crash, as well, who knows).

Not a hoax, they found the plane

[Tmack]

Last night/this morning, they found the wreckage. Its been all over the news here (SF bay area). Still no body though, maybe the aliens beamed him out of his plane...

tm

Re:Not a hoax, they found the plane

[CKW]

Do we have a GPS location? It'd be nice to go back to Google Earth / Google Maps and see what was/was-not missed in the online volunteer search.

I'm guessing that on the side of the mountain the wreckage was just so badly mangled that one would not recognize it, and/or it blends in with the other sharp small contrasting features on a mountain side.

What a coincidence.

[ChrisA90278]

What a coincidence.

(1) I hiked in the same area a month ago, over labor day. I have photos of the area. It's actually not all that remote. A five to seven hour round trip walk from a road will get you there. There are quite a few hikers there to. If you spend time there you will run into a few other hikers each day.

(2) When I was learning to fly we used the same type of aircraft. I've got a few hours logged it one. If it crashed I can see where it would be hard to locate. The skin is not aluminum. The aircraft has truss type frame made of welded steel tubes and is covered with fabric. It is actually very strong. but would disintegrate in the weather quickly. In contrast I hiked up another mountain a few weeks ago and there is a well known crash there from the 1960's that aluminum wreckage is very easy to spot even a mile away as aluminum weathers well, that wreckage will last for 100+ years. It also flew head on into a mountain.

It's pure luck this was found, very soon the area will be covered in 20 feet of snow and then become very wet in spring and the run off from all that snow would have destroyed the last traces.

From the news ...

[PPH]

... the hiker stated that he did not immediately make the connection between the name and the missing pilot. So, he figures someone dropped their wallet, or some contents. He picks it up and moves on without looking around.

I don't know what the terrain in that region is like, but where I live (Washington State), you can walk right by airplane wreckage in the woods and not see it through the moss. Its possible that he may have walked right by the crash site and not seen it. The alternative is that Fossett may have survived and been able to move some distance away from the wreck before perishing. That would be sad.

This kinda stinks...

[Schmyz]

...I mean even if your not a big fan of the guy...he was kinda the "Buck Rogers" for the more common man...ok ok how common are billionaires....but you sorta get my point...right?