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Obama's Mobile Phone Records Compromised, Shared
Tiger4 writes "Verizon has confirmed that some of its employees have accessed and perhaps shared calling records of President Elect Barack Obama (coverage at CNN, Reuters, AP). Verizon says the people involved have all been put on leave with pay as the investigation proceeds. Some of the employees may have accessed the information for legitimate purposes, but others may have been curiosity seekers and may have even shared the information around. The account was 'only' a phone, not a BlackBerry or similar device, and Verizon believes it was just calling records, not voicemail or email that was compromised. The articles do not mention the similarity to the warrantless wiretapping or hospital records compromises of recent months. But that immediately sprang to mind for me."
Oversight is OK though right? He has nothing to hide.
If he stops the NSA from spying on domestics then I'll take back my comment.
Just wondering how long it will take before this results in some new phone related law...
Some of the employees may have accessed the information for legitimate purposes
Like what?
I doubt if Obama has any problem paying his phone bill.
So this means he WILL have to let go of his Blackberry after all. How secure is data passing to a Blackberry, (the server, towers etc..)?
My brother worked at T-Mobile for many years. (since before they were T-Mobile). Most Hollywood stars have their agents get their phones for them. One day, something happened in the payment process, and Val Kilmer came into a store to make a payment on his phone, instead of his agent. Suddenly, his number was getting passed all over the company, and many employees (mostly young girls) actually called the number to talk to him. A ton of people were fired, and Val got a very nice check from T-Mobile.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Most of the media (for example, NPR on the radio today) talks about "unauthorized access by employees", while /. entry is about "sharing" (which is more sinister).
PS. That and unrelated modest and subdued coverage by CNN about yesterday's record Dow-Jones drop remind me of bias in the media.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/tvandradioblog/2008/nov/12/barack-obama-south-park
While this is improper and wrong, I think that if the government is allowed to wiretap us, then the same laws should make it legal (Freedom of Information Act or something like that) for us to wiretap them. In fact, all government employees' and officials' calls should be recorded and made available for everyone's listening pleasure at a youtube-like site. Call it govtube. Because we are not subservient to the government; it is subservient to us. We put those people in office for our benefit, and so it is our collective right to know what they're doing over there.
A situation like this is why there are so many stupid rules at work that make people less productive. Why USB ports are disabled, or you can't have an iPod, websites like gmail are blocked. The biggest danger of electronic crime and compromising of personal information come from people that work at the company. Same as most shoplifting is done by employees of the store. The solution is, ironically stolen from the government. In order to see personal data (classified information) an employee of the company must, not only have rights to see the information, but must also demonstrate a "need to know". That two factor authentication will eliminate many of the abuses by corporate and government employees (Joe the Plumber's info breach by the state) and clearly put the action into criminal field as apposed to looky loo.
What will Obama take for his trouble? I wonder who he's been chatting with. I see here a few dozen calls to a payphone in Ottawa. For years people were suggesting the USA could annex Canada if a big enough crisis occurred. Little did they know that Canada would annex the USA after a major stock market crash.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Really ? The people who illegaly obtained access to "Joe the plumber"'s records, and went on to check all sorts of things on him are still perfectly gainfully employed by the government :
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101
I guess it all depends what side you're on. Can't have peole being critical of the president, now can we ?
Hey Olame-a - I'm waiting for my $5000. Without tax increase (and I'm paying ZERO taxes). After the election you became very silent on this point ...
"Verizon says the people involved have all been put on leave with pay..."
Leave WITH pay? Are you joking? This is easily the most offensive "punishment" I've ever heard of. Leave WITH pay is called a VACATION! That's not punishment! I find garbage like this to be more offensive when it's applied to cops who abuse their position or the like but it's simply offensive that any PUNISHMENT would equate with a VACATION. Leave withOUT pay is a punishment.
Simply boggles my mind sometimes...
Never heard of him. You talk as though he was some kind of Super Star like Rajnikant.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Actually you are strangely correct. We should have transcripts of every conversation with lobbyist, campaign contributors, and business relationships. A lack of vision into our corporate and political deal making has lead to many of the abuses over the last decade. If every non-personal conversation by corporate executives and government employees was recorded and made available to the public corruption and graft will be driven further underground.
Every time a celebrity lands themselves in an ER (especially hospitals not accustomed VIPs) then we can expect several violations of HIPAA by unauthorized hospital staff.
They just cannot resist no matter how many times they are warned about activity being logged and threats of dismissal upon violation.
If there is sufficient evidence to connect the suspected employee, they will most likely be fired or worse. Denying the suspected parties their pay is inappropriate until more sufficient evidence is found. Having them show up at work would be inappropriate as well.
No, it's not an ideal situation. But what would you propose?
Sure it's like a vacation. A vacation where you might be fired or charged with a crime. Yeah, I'm jealous.
While I won't get into the debate over whether or not we elected the right person(for that matter, or the one about if we elected them), but in the President-Elect's defense, he has no authority to do anything except for pick his staff until the inauguration in January, so you're at least going to be waiting until then...
Shouldn't this be public record anyway?
Stop whining for whining's sake. You lost, they won. You think change is going to happen before Olame-a- takes over? Not a chance.
I hear RushIsRight.com is accepting applications for group-cry sessions. Maybe O'Reilly will create a how-to video for crying so you can do it the Republican way. Revamp or crying is your long-term future. :~(
Since Obama voted for FISA it's only fair that the people have access to those records too. :)
Really ? The people who illegaly obtained access to "Joe the plumber"'s records, and went on to check all sorts of things on him
["all sorts of things" means, specifically, his driver's record, and whether or not he owed child support]
are still perfectly gainfully employed by the government
And so are these people. Didn't you even read the summary??? Verizon says the people involved have all been put on leave with pay.
"leave with pay" == "still employed." Sounds like a bonus, not a punishment!
I guess it all depends what side you're on.
Apparently not.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Do you think that the President Elect of the United States might have greater personal security concerns than McCain's version of a working class hero? This isn't a matter of "being critical of the president".
Why would Verizon employees have access to my email? Do the monitor and capture private emails sent through their service?
You know it amazes me how sensitive people get about what was essentially a poorly thought out Republican publicity stunt.
With the landslide McCain won with, you'd think people would be ready to drop these two absurd figures of the campaign, Sarah Palin and especially Joe the Plumber. I could care less if the Republican party has a future or not, but trust me if it does it doesn't include these two fools in any serious capacity. At least Palin seems to get a passing grade (D, but still passing) as Governor of Seward's Icebox.
No though, we're supposed to care that some egomaniac Republican operative's feelings might have been hurt.
Here's the thing, if I were John McCain, I would've had Joe the Plumber scragged after he failed to show up at an important campaign event and left me there looking like an idiot. You know, quick and painful. He had to improvise with that lame, "You're all Joe the Plumber" line.
Not that I blame Joe, he knew the Titanic was going down and had book deals to sign and other things to do.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
I thought they were supposed to take away his Blackberry, for national security purposes, since he can't use email as President.
Punch drunk, and without bail.
The President-Elect has a modern day Praetorian Guard protecting him. It would take either a professional team of assassins, or a very, very lucky suicide bomber/shooter to get anywhere near him. Joe the Plumber? Not so much.
Joe what's his name can't help the fact that McCain made him into a working class hero. He also can't help the fact that a number of people on the left wanted to destroy him for having the audacity to ask a hard, serious economic question of Obama that made Obama look bad. One radio host even called for him to be murdered.
So yeah, I'd say that he had more practical security precautions than a man who had the Secret Service protecting him and his immediate family.
You're paying zero taxes. I presume your income is pretty much zero then; Personally I wouldn't brag about that.
But then, people that come up with such pathetic nicknames are probably without much of a life anyway. Tell us, is your room in your parents attic or in the basement? We'd just like to know.
You want to put the data in whose safe?
They just cannot resist no matter how many times they are warned about activity being logged and threats of dismissal upon violation.
I've seen the same thing in hospitals I've worked in. It's amazing how unethical and/or weird people act around celebrities especially when they aren't used to seeing them. It's never been clear to me why an actor would be especially interesting to anyone off screen but people just lose their minds. It's bizarre.
In my experience hospitals can reduce (but not eliminate) the HIPAA violations by ensuring that the threats of dismissal for unauthorized record access are actually carried out. It has to be a credible threat. The last hospital I worked at actually did fire people for unauthorized record access. Unfortunately so many people usually have at least semi-legitimate access to the chart that it isn't always clear when violations have occurred and someone has to police it which usually is expensive. Generally only the most egregious violations get caught.
He should have used a carrier other than Verizon. Shame on him for using Verizon. If he gets hacked, who cares? Should have used an official phone for official conversations. /cynicism off
I don't see any ranting and raving the press about the various government agencies that started checking up on Joe the Plumber after his 15 seconds of fame. I guess it's not interesting if Big Brother snoops on ordinary folks.
I worked for T-Mobile as a CSR, it was not uncommon for us to snoop and look at customer records, In Samson you can even search by name, and find all sorts of stuff (much of it useless, a search returning too much info was common), reminds me of an account for Motorola I saw that was past due over 500k. (Motorola wasn't the only one to have accounts like this, many large corporate accounts were much the same)
Its not like we were sharing it among ourselves, or with anyone else, we would just take a peek now and again..
What radio host called for ol' Joe-the-P's murder?
Besides, he's not the only one singled out for death by radio hosts. I've had people call for my death. Who am I? I bike-commuter.
It's our right to know what they're doing as part of their official duties. If the president wants a 15 minute break to talk to his wife with a phone he pays for out-of-pocket, then it's none of our business.
Sarah Palin scares the crap out of you, doesn't she?
Heh.
Do you think that the President Elect of the United States might have greater personal security concerns than McCain's version of a working class hero? This isn't a matter of "being critical of the president".
You know my first reaction to this? It's a good thing that this happened. Why? Because it would take a data breach of a major government official before anything really serious is done about the problem. There is a part of me that really hopes that the president and congress get all sorts of personnel data stolen/breached just so they'll start to take the subject seriously.
Now as far as the office of the President and the white house goes... I'd hope that however the white house has their cell phone plan that say that they have some contract and have 50-1000 (how ever many) phones and some peon is in charge of paying bills, setting up/backing up address books other info of officals and that the phone company shouldn't ever know which phones are assigned to which personnel. I'd actually want all their phone conversions encrypted and what not. (Actually, I'd want every cell phone call encrypted as well.)
Now, if this happened to be his personnel cell phone before he became famous president/government official, I can understand how this happened. I'd hope the President of the US or heck of any country or major business has more important things to do than fiddle with their personnel cell phones/tech support/data breaches.
I'll now have that mental image of the President spending an hour on hold trying to get through the cell phone tech support mini hell before he can complain to the cell phone management rather than spending time doing whatever it is presidents do most of the time.
Who modded this "insightful?" White supremacists? Good grief this is horrible!
>>That's probably because, with the exception of Fox News,
>>the MSM still has a sliver of integrity left somewhere and
>>won't game the headline that way unless it's possible to
>>prove that the records were actually shared, as opposed
>>to just illegally accessed.
Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!
Gah, that was a good one. If after this election anyone can claim the clearly biased in favor of Obama have any integrity at all...
The sad thing is the MSM is only beginning to realize just how badly they've screwed themselves here, and what they've done to their credibility because of it.
I watched Katie Couric on Letterman the other night shifting and smiling uncomfortably as Dave bounced all over the place congratulating her and the rest of the MSM for their work in getting Obama elected. She just kept on glaring at him with her eyes as her smiles kept getting bigger and bigger...
She knows what Dave doesn't--and that unless the MSM can quickly bury their involvement with this election the American public will remember and discount their biases come next election--something none of the MSM reporters, flacks, and punditry want, but far too many in the entertainment branches are drunk with power and won't SHUT UP about it.
--bornagainpenguin
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
I have a friend who works for Verizon Wireless and he read me the e-mail that was sent out to Verizon Wireless employees. I am not sure whether the e-mail I was read was released to the public as well but the wording in the article is practically identical. Some of the points made in the e-mail that was read to me were...
That protecting customer data was not just the law but also company policy and in the best interest of gaining and maintaining customer confidence."
Over the past several years we have all read here on slashdot how our private data whether it be medical or financial or relating to whom we communicate with has been released out into the wilds of the internet for public consumption. Either accidentally such as the case of a stolen laptop or given to law enforcement agencies who failed to comply with 4th amendment protections by filing for a warrant or subpoena. Didn't Congress just unanimously vote to grant retroactive immunity from prosecution for their complicity in these violations of the constitution?
The e-mail with which I am familiar states that the account was in fact inactive and was not a smart phone such but rather a flip phone. While it may be the law that they cannot release customer data maliciously I don't know of a law or at least one that has been or will be enforced that would criminalize the actions of the employees who decided to take a "peek" at who our president elect had been calling. In fact the e-mail stated that the employees with legitimate reasons for accessing the information will return to work and those who accessed the data without legitimate reasons will be fired. Not arrested and prosecuted but fired.
This hole seems to just get deeper and deeper with respect to the many ways people find to circumvent privacy and how for the people involved in violating the legal protections or corporate regulations in place to protect that data there seems to be no punishment or consequence. Fast forward a few months and the people who are fired for this are looking for work and give Verizon as a reference. Too bad Verizon cannot say whether they were fired and if so for what but only verify length of employment. These people just move on and do the same thing somewhere else.
If he's doing nothing wrong he's got nothing to worry about.
Right?
No sig today...
Lets see if they get the same slap on the wrist that government employees got for accessing Joe the Plumber's tax records, DMV records, medical records, and other supposedly private information.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
Joe was just a guy in Ohio. Obama came to his house to campaign. He wasn't an "operative".
Do you guys even care that you're lying? Your guy won. There's no need to continue to smear and lie about Joe the Plumber.
really? Ted Strickland suspended Director Helen Jones-Kelley of the Job and Family Services Department for one month without pay
She, although currently employed, for the next month is not gainfully employed (unlike the people accused hear.)
Everything interesting that was disclosed was public record anyway, IE not a lic plumber, just a dream of someday making enough money to someday buy a business... Just a leading question by a guy who didn't care what the answer was because he had already decided (and was already campaigning for McCain.)
I think Obama's tax plan would still be better for these small businesses, IE a guys who own their own profitable business get to choose how much pay they take away. So as long as he re-invests his profits in his (or other businesses) then Obama's plan is better for him. Only if he decides to cash out big time, would he have be penalized 6% more for not reinvesting in the economy.
So I ask that, what is wrong with a 6% luxury Tax that encourages job creation, at a time when we want to encourage job creation?
"...Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us."
Didn't Rush tell you? It's because he's a crazy mixed-breed half A-Rab half Aztec TER'RIST! *waves hands spookily* Boogety boogety boogety!
My problem is that the media has aired more of Joe the plumber's background than Barack's. All he did was ask a question. Why is the left only tolerant when they are being agreed with? Where's the ACLU to defend this guy?
I'm not not licking toads.
far worse.
I can expect and do expect the President to be targets of this type of stuff and to have lots of people assigned to prevent it or minimize the damage. But when the power of government is brought to bear on an individual then it strikes me as very wrong and something that deserves more attention than what happened here.
The simply fact is, abuse of government positions happens all the time but goes unreported because the press does not value the offense. Joe the plumber got run over because to the press he supported the wrong candidate and worse embarrassed their selected candidate. To top it off one of the investigating (read: abusing) government officials also favored the candidate who Joe did not.
You can just go read all the pro-invade Palin's email on the hopes she did something wrong crowd here at /. to reveal just how warped this place has become. The number who defended getting to the email of a mere candidate were astounding and was purely driving my political leaning.
She surely scared the hell out of everyone outside the US...
The idea of a creationist ending up in charge of the US nuclear arsenal gave me the creeps
No sig for the moment.
Employees access famous people's account info all the time, just out of curiousity. Such was my experience with co-workers during the summer I spent as a call centre representative at the local hydro company. After having the same phone conversation 100 times a day, people needed something to entertain them. "OMG Wayne Gretzky missed a bill payment back in 1997!!!!"
Just imagine the outrage if someone had broken into one of the candidate's personal email accounts, and posted pictures of their children and private conversations, or...uh...wait...
All he did was ask a question.
He got mentioned more than 50 times in the following debate, that's much more than just a question. There's also the fact that had it been his blackberry or voicemail, there is potential for sensitive information to be leaked, something we don't have to worry about with Joe the Plumber.
Think about it... people believe you can't stop drugs because people are attracted to them and there is an almost infinite amount of money to be made. Well, same with phone and hospital records.
OK, how much would a sleazy tabloid (think National Enquirer) pay for Obama's phone records? What would they pay for a single phone number that was registered to someone that Mr. O should not be talking to? Be a hooker in Vegas or a low-level government employee in Saudi Arabia, such news would be incredibly valuable in the right hands. And nearly every single Verizon employee has access (although not legitimate) to this information.
Similar thinks happen in a hospital, but the occurrence is lower. With phone records you probably have something worth selling every month. So the real question is how long is it going to take before there is a real market for this kind of information? Can Verizon (or any carrier) fire every employee that accesses the information improperly? Maybe, but probably not.
I think we're just going to have to live with the new value of this information.
But you see, the real Joe the plumber is pro-Jewish and works for his money.
The left only likes people who kill jews and mooch of the government. That was the case in 1930 and that is the case now.
If you haven't killed at least 5 jews or 100 americans the ACLU will not give you a second look. It's been that way for years now.
The left defends the "jews are apes and pigs" religion lunatics as "victims" and helps them kill Jews. Muslims actually participated in the holocaust for religious reasons, and famously were the only nazi regiment ever to massively kill children. Google "ay aymin al-husseini". He was a lefty too.
I know the obvious quote about history repeating itself. The only question I have is why these motherf@$%@#$@#$@$^T@$%@#$@#$ want to take me along for the ride ?
This was the first thing I thought of when I read the summary......
Just remember - if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
A creationist ? Palin ?
Are we talking about the same woman ? She's not a creationist. Her point is that you can whine about genesis all you want in religion classes and whine about evolution in biology classes.
How does restricting religion to religion class make one a creationist ?
Obama on the other hand uses the police to supress criticism of him. And that's proven, not some idiotic conjecture.
Our healthcare organization has all sorts of protections against this.
The first is obviously education and awareness. We have annual training that talks about what people can and can't do.
We also have the ability to flag certain patients as "do not announce", which means that clinicians can't even mention folks are in the hospital. Furthermore, records can be marked as limited access, with only a few people being able to see them (this is rarely done, as preventing legitimate access is dangerous). What's more common is to "self-authorize" when accessing a patient you wouldn't normally see. They basically click a warning box and someone later reviews it.
I would think that for telecommunication companies, it would be relatively easy to maintain a list of high profile phone numbers. If anyone wants to access those, a message pops up asking "Are you sure? A manager will be notified." If they say yes and have a valid reason, there won't be a problem.
When Sarah Palin's personal email was compromised, she was enjoying the customary United States Secret Service protection extended to major candidates for 120 days before the election. As such, the Secret Service were all over the case as well as the FBI, and the fellow responsible was quickly identified and punished.
What's different about this case? Why is Verizon able to play this whole thing off as some minor internal thing that's no big deal really when Obama is such a high proile target?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
She isn't a creationist. She agreed that if a student asked a creationist question in science class that the question should be discussed.... how well do you think such a question would fare when being examined? Do you think no questions in science class should be allowed? Absorb TFA, comrade!
Here is the link:
http://scienceblogs.com/afarensis/2006/10/27/intelligent_design_and_the_ala/
No sig for the moment.
My problem is that the media has aired more of Joe the plumber's background than Barack's
hyperbole much?
First, I believe that this whole situation, on multiple levels, is pretty messed up. I think when the Outrage, and Smirking, dies down, that the facts will most likely show that this was the act of a handful of people acting coy. And, for a short while, Obama's phone was our phone. But ignoring this article's implications, I think the tagging for this article should have been, "Warrentless, Wiretap, Felony, Stupid".
Never heard of him. You talk as though he was some kind of Super Star like Rajnikant.
Everything interesting that was disclosed was public record anyway, IE not a lic plumber, just a dream of someday making enough money to someday buy a business...
Newsflash ... Olame-a got elected. So that dream is done for.
Instead he'll work on receiving his part of the "redistributed" wealth. Like any sane person would do. I just hope you don't have too much plumbing that needs doing ... cause there's a whole lot of Joes out there.
Ofcourse, he could always join up with the "Obama-jugend" ... since that's going to be "as well funded as the military".
Hey Olame-a, when do I get my 5000$ ?
There has been a lot of talk about "automating" our health care and records as part of a move to Universal health care. This example of employees improperly accessing phone records should be cautionary when we think about automating health care records. We need to have logs of all access to anyone's records. We need to have strong security models and patient notification of any and all access to records. And, we need to change the law so that the media *MUST* reveal the source of any information leaked from unauthorized records. I know the first amendment folks will cringe at any requirements of disclosure, but the press has no rights to access or publish this kind of information, especially when the government forces us to provide it.
Alternate views have to be legitimate first and proven.
Just because your pastor told you that 2+2=5 it doesn't mean it has the right to be pushed in classrooms.
No sig for the moment.
Get a sense of humour, nigger
Can you imagine a president that has a lot in common with your typical mis-profiled
US immigrant or citizen that slightly resembles a terrorist, and that their lives, phone records,
personal information were accessed without much worry of reprimand due to that new bill stating "we think your a terrorist, therefor we reserve the right to harass you".
Finally he gets a taste of what its like for many people in the US, and might actually do something about it. However, I think it might just be down played to a level of breach of security on the part
of Verizon, where they more so state "it was an act of vandalism, more so then a hate crime, or racially driven statement"
The cost of a sense of humor to appreciate something like that is too high.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
He prolly just made a mistake.
Oversight is OK though right? He has nothing to hide.
If he stops the NSA from spying on domestics then I'll take back my comment.
if you go into a wireless store and you give them your number they pull up your information to help you with your needs. So these people pull up peoples accounts everyday without having the customers in front on them to call them to help them with there bill or let them know about eligible upgrade. Whats the difference if you pull up this account from the average Joes account. I understand that some people just wanted to see even if this man had cell phone service through this company. It was stupid but hey everybody's human. Some of those people that might have come across that mans account are good normal people Americans and some might be bad people but Verizon should look into that and have some trust in there employees and remember Its Verizon Wireless is fault for having that information out there. Nobody should have access but one person who handles government accounts. So in perspective Verizon is to be blamed and not the men and woman who viewed this account because that's what these people do for a living. Yes some sort of disciplinary action should be taken but most of these people should not loose there jobs.
No shit.
The left-wing kook crowd (all too prevalent on Slashdot) seems to think that it's perfectly OK that someone broke into Palin's email, AND that un-warranted illegal checks were run countless times on anyone who had an actual critical question about Obama, and yet thinks it's not okay that someone wanted to find out who Obama was talking to on the phone?
What if it turns out that long after he'd supposedly "cut off" certain people (Wright, Ayers, the various members of his campaign committee who had to be booted for connections to Hamas fundraising or lobbyist scandals, etc) he was still talking to them five times a week? Wouldn't that be a little "suspicious"?
And shouldn't we, to use the same argument the left-wing kooks used to justify invading the privacy of Palin, "have the right to know"?
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! And it's all the Liberals' fault!
1. Clinton administration snagging secret FBI background checks on all the nation's leading Republicans.
2. Democrats illegally recording Newt Gingrich cell phone call and leaking it to the press.
3. Democrat breaking into Gov Palin's e-mail account and plastering the contents all over the web.
4. Hoards of Democrats in a bunch of state offices digging into every possible government record looking for dirt on Joe-the-plumber (the average citizen who dared question the messiah)
5. Both McCain and Obama having their passport records breached
6. The pregnancy of Palin's under-age daughter and details about her boyfriend being splashed all-over the papers.
7. Palin's minor daughter's cell phone info being leaked onto the web
Actually, I though of all the recent breaches by people in both parties, but there seems to be a fixation on Cheney/Bush, and a baseless presumption that Democrats value privacy, on the net that is a bit tiresome and some balance is required. The problem is NOT that the wrong people are in charge or the wrong people are the victims; the problem is that humans are corruptible and too much power in the hands of too few, with too little oversight, will always lead to trouble. No matter which side of the aisle you are on, eventually your people will be the victims and the other people will be the perps. Best that people on both sides hammer-out better rules to protect the privacy of everybody... while still protecting everybody from real harm. Anybody who only notices and gets upset when somebody in his political party is violated is somebody who does not truly care about privacy
I believe GPs point was that no one is safe from having it happen to them, not that no one is safe from the consequences of doing the data theft. Obviously (sadly) if you're doing it on behalf of the government, you're ok.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
"It is better to stay quiet and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
Regarding you, sir, there remains no doubt.
If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
Oh really? I thought the Constitution guaranteed certain rights (for example, freedom from unreasonable/unwarranted search and seizure) to everyone, not just government officials.
Likewise, dumb ass.
Yeah I'm "a troll," and this dude is "insightful." If I have to hear "left-wing kook" or "right-wing Bible thumper" one more time, I'm gonna flip my fucking lid! There was a public outcry over the intrusion into Palin's email. And drop Ayers, Jesus! Start thinking critically and stop regurgitating what other people tell you. I could easily say similar things to some Liberals, but you are being a dumb ass right here, right now. I repeat: stop blaming "the Liberals" and 1. start having opinions that have critical thought put into them, and 2. start thinking of how you can help America not how everyone else is ruining it. That's just counterproductive self-pity.
I'm not entirely sure that everyone agrees on certain aspects of advanced science, therefore by your logic, because they are yet unproven, should not be discussed at all.
-Ed
So you see what had happened was....
You have a good point, note however you completely ignore one very important aspect of Palin's email break in.
Palin was breaking the law when she used that email box for official government business in an attempt to deliberately hide it. (She said so in one of the emails in the box.) The "kids photos" were a side effect of her getting busted by a vigilante out to get her for doing something illegal.
Obama, on the other hand, is probably not breaking the law using his personal phone (at least we have no evidence that he was yet).
So, "break into Palin's email" = illegal, immoral, but has vigilante righteousness.
And, "break into Obama's phone" = illegal, immoral, and the act of someone using illegal means in an attempt to "get" him as part of a partisan plot.
Unfortunately, we (collectively) are going down a road that will be tremendously hard to back out of, politicians need some privacy (just like regular citizens do) to conduct affairs, and it is rapidly getting to the point where there is always someone in power who is on the "other" side who has access. An unfortunate side effect of the bogus "war on terror", Patriot Act, and other crap.
Had Palin not broken the law, then yes, the two events would be equally bad.
Claiming that the two events are equivalent is disingenuous bullshit. So, consider yourself called on it. Go climb back under your republican rock for 4 years please.
For anyone who still thinks there could have possibly been a legitimate reason for this, think again. What's been confirmed to me is that roughly seven employees from a store in eastern Massachusetts (I know where, but there's no need to get THAT specific) were goofing around and were interested in Obama's records. They apparently didn't realize how seriously this would be taken. The (unconfirmed) rumor is that they were just bored at work, and someone thought it might be funny to look it up. They did not have any malicious intentions, but at the same time they had no legitimate reason to access the account. They are all suspended, and they will all be fired after the investigation confirms what the accused have already shared with other VZW employees. Don't worry about how I know, I just do.
The ends do not justify the means — and in fact illegally obtained evidence is inadmissable in court.
There was no solid evidence prior to a vigilante breaking into Palin's inbox that any law was broken. There may have been an investigation in progress, I can't remember right now, but that is NOT the same thing as substantial evidence or a conviction.
With that single insight your entire argument about the relative moral and legal difference is destroyed.
Since you saw fit to throw in a politically based insult I will now do the same. Please sir, get your head out of Barak's colon and get some fresh air. Your critical thinking skills are oxygen starved.
Wow...talk about circular logic. How would we know if Obama is breaking law prior to getting his phone records? We don't, so we must first break in and get his phone records and only then can we make a determination.
This is the EXACT same situation as someone breaking into Palins personal email. The only difference was that it wasn't Yahoo employees doing the break in. If you think this was a wrong against Obama, then you should be consistent and think that breaking into Palins email was also wrong. It makes no difference what was found once the breach occurred.
No. All of us should demand privacy to help protect those who need it and can't have it. Specifically for people who have secrets that they don't want publicly known. This is for anything that could be embarrassing if made public - gay black men, anal sex lovers, private slobs, cuckold husbands, slutty women, etc.
My first question concerning the Pres-Elect phone information -
1) who paid the bill? State or personal?
1a) if the state, all the records and recordings should be made public 30 days after the event.
1b) if personal, all the people who illegally accessed the information should be terminated.
OTOH, as President, there is no personal anything anymore. So Pres-Elect needs to be prepared for all communications in any form to be public record - post Presidency.
Did you bother to read what you quoted? Is "illegal and immoral" too subjective a term for you?
FYI: "Illegal and immoral" pretty much means "wrong". I don't see how any reasonable person could come to any other conclusion.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
All I can say is that, despite his 'privacy' being violated, I hope this phone number list makes it "out". Despite all of Obama's high-and-mighty posturing, he now appears to be playing the "same old cronyism" game with his appointments.
It'd be nice to have actual proof of the backroom dealings so we might be able to bright it to light. If things keep going this way they are, he's going to leave Bush's cronyism in the rearview mirror.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
It's important here to distinguish between "account records", "call records", and "trap & trace"...
It appears that the Verizon employees were checking out Obama's account records, which is basically viewing his name, address, payment info, rate plan, features, etc.
If they also viewed his call records, they could have garnered some information on the numbers he called, date & time of calls, general locations of the call origin & destination , and duration of the call. None of this would include the content of the call, but could still provide some interesting bits (depending on the level of detail in their call detail records). The same basic information could be viewed for text messages and data sessions, but again, not the content of those communications. This is the type of information available on your cellular bill, if you choose "detailed billing". This is still a major violation of CPNI rules, if they took it to this level, but that's not indicated in the articles I read.
Lastly, there is "trap & trace" or your typical wiretapping, where you can record the conversation and/or content of the communication. This is a much more involved effort and requires additional tools and training to perform. I would expect anyone caught doing this without authorization (other than the NSA) to be prosecuted. I seriously doubt that's what happened here.
Who modded this "insightful?" White supremacists? Good grief this is horrible!
Yes, you're right. This shouldn't be "insightful". Make him release his fucking medical records, and perhaps put him through a standard background investigation for a Top Secret SCI clearance. Publish those documents and results, as those are insightful.
Stop playing the race card. Labeling this "insightful" IMHO was more due to the complete and utter defiance to publish documents I've pointed out that SHOULD have been published long-ago.
Research and coverage was done on "Joe the Plumber," and rightly so--he's a fraud. I'm glad everyone dug deep enough to uncover the fact that his name is actually Samuel Wurzelbacher, and he is NOT a plumber at all, but a criminal (tax evasion). And a Republican plant, on top of all that. Summarily: he's a piece of shit.
You have a good point, note however you completely ignore one very important aspect of Palin's email break in.
Palin was breaking the law when she used that email box for official government business in an attempt to deliberately hide it. (She said so in one of the emails in the box.) The "kids photos" were a side effect of her getting busted by a vigilante out to get her for doing something illegal.
How exactly is that point important in a case dealing with a citizen illegally accessing her email account? Especially since it was completely unnecessary since there was already an investigation in progress and at least four boxes of evidence (all of the emails dealing with state business sent by two of her aides were addressed to her yahoo email address). Those were related to a different yahoo email account that she was using, but they would have found the other one through that anyway. Regardless of his intentions, the kid that did it was a moron that broke the law.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I read what I quoted just fine. He seemed to think that Palins was okay since we supposedly found something and that Obamas was not okay. Since Obamas records have not been made public yet, we have no way of knowing if something illegal was going on.
Both were illegal and immoral with no other ifs, ands, or buts about it. Justifying that going Palins email is okay because we found something doesn't work no matter how much the Obama lovers wish it did.
Except the breakin found nothing incriminating. Seems your ignoring the facts and the whole due process along with the entire legal theory of "Innocent until proven guilty."
---- Liquid was a patriot ----
You can just go read all the pro-invade Palin's email on the hopes she did something wrong crowd here at /. to reveal just how warped this place has become. The number who defended getting to the email of a mere candidate were astounding and was purely driving my political leaning.
Go to a left-leaning site and you'll find an astounding number of left-leaning idiots. Go to a right-leaning site and you'll find an astounding number of right-leaning idiots. The fact that you claim that this was purely driving your political leaning makes me suspect you're one of them as well.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Yes, no one goes by their middle name, he must be fraud. He actually is a plumber, just not a union plumber. He has a less than $1,500 tax lien not a criminal offense. It shouldn't have been about "Joe the Plumber" and about the question and response. Barack and the media just did a damn good job of deflecting, you are an obvious example that it worked. The DailyKos appreciates you regurgitating their misinformation for them.
I'm not not licking toads.
My alias is Samuel! My middle name is Joseph! I wear a thrift-store coat with the name "Zinkhen" stitched onto it! I'm a Republican and Terry Schiavo was a vegetable! I must be a fraud!
He's still a Republican plant. He's connected to Charles Keating, of the Keating Five scandal (which McCain was involved in). The point is, the Republicans put him up there to confront Obama to stir shit up. It was not genuine (few things that come from the right ever are).
Actually from Kennedy onward there was a practice in the white house of makeing tape recordings or other records of important calls. The most extreme example of this was Nixon who recorded everything. So you can at least get that info, a little late of course.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB48/nixon.html
Much of this information ends up in Presidential Libraries where it remains hidden for some time before being made public under the Presidential Records act.
Congress on the other hand, thats different.
And shouldn't we, to use the same argument the left-wing kooks used to justify invading the privacy of Palin, "have the right to know"?
So you want to use the same argument as people you describe as "left-wing kooks"? I think you may have revealed more about yourself than you intended.
I think most of us here said that the kid that got into Palin's account was an idiot that deserved punishment. I don't know why anyone would want to argue against that in this case either.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I know you normally don't let the truth get in the way when you are trying to destroy the credibility of someone who disagrees with you, but this one is patently false. I understand it is hard to find the retractions when the media is in full on frothing-at-the-mouth mode, but seek and ye shall find.
As far as McCain and Keating, Obama has far more nefarious connections with people of questionable backgrounds than that. I'm not sure that would be the best argument to make. Doesn't matter, he got elected by hook or by crook.
I'm not not licking toads.
The man is still a mere President-Elect, and you are already disappointed — not one new face so far, so much for the "Change we need". Hold that thought 'till 2012...
I'd be disappointed too, had I been among the 98% of Obama voters, who knew so little about the ticket they pushed into White House:
So, my disappointment is merely with the fellow Americans...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
It's called the Presidential Records Act.
(Ah, but what's this? An Executive Order from President George W. Bush? I wonder what that's about...)
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
Looks like we need a phone anonomizing solution. Of course only Val Kilmer, terrorists, plumbers and presidents would want it.
Nullius in verba
Since Obama is the Messiah, I am sure he's had one on one's with God. Now we all can have his # and stop all this silly praying...
I, for one, will start praying via Text Message.
The MSM didn't get Barack Obama to the White House. George W. Bush and Sarah Palin did.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
I'm sure if they dug deep enough, they'd discover barack obama (or is it barry soetoro?) is a fraud.
But I'm sure you now realize that, seeing as "change" now means "retread washington insiders"
I think he said both were bad just one was more bad...
Justifying that going Palins email is okay because we found something doesn't work no matter how much the Obama lovers wish it did.
Especially since nothing (illegal or unethical) was found.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Thats the funniest thing I have read in a long time
Thanks for trolling. He already said that if you don't pay taxes you won't get any money back. Nice try, though.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Didn't you get the memo? Change means not pissing away all of our change by starting wars and fucking up the economy.
Change is not electing another student of Karl Rove, aka Bush 3. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's not change.
I'm with ya M1rth. You're not alone on /.
Not everyone here is a liberal pussy. At least we know two of us aren't.
Mode parent ^
Ooooooooh. Damn dude. You told us.
Exactly. I quote from the article :
Palin said she thought there was value in discussing alternatives.
"It's OK to let kids know that there are theories out there," she said in the interview. "They gain information just by being in a discussion."
That was how she was brought up, she said. Her father was a public school science teacher.
"My dad did talk a lot about his theories of evolution," she said. "He would show us fossils and say, 'How old do you think these are?' "
Asked for her personal views on evolution, Palin said, "I believe we have a creator."
She would not say whether her belief also allowed her to accept the theory of evolution as fact.
"I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.
To me this sounds a lot more scientific than your average nutcase. Of course any real scientist would want balanced discussion, weighing of the alternatives, knowledge of the theory's assumptions and doubt. Above all, a scientist would want doubt. He'd want anyone and everyone to try to poke holes in his theories. That's the way science moves ahead. If in a discussion the right theory doesn't gain an advantage then there's obviously something wrong with the theory. As long as they don't prohibit kids from learning about evolution, nor force creationism into biology class. I think it's a very positive, a very scientific way of doing things.
They might learn ... (oh the horror) ... convincing arguments that creationism is wrong. They might actually become able to challenge a creationist. They might actually become able to point out flaws in theories. I guess some evolutionists are just as bad at tolerating criticism as religious loonies are.
And her personal views ? I guess for atheists (even though I am one) freedom of religion is only for them, not for others. If one's not an atheist, the government is not for you ... If that were true 50 years ago, atheists might have been massacred the way they are in muslim nations today.
And let's not forget her opponent :
-> only won his first election by forcing (some say blackmail was involved) his opponents of the ballot
-> accepted the following statement as one of his main religious principles : "If there's a God for white people we must kill him", and there's a lot more REALLY bad stuff there. Obama's either a racist, or at the very, very least, very tolerant of extreme racism. He may not be a Hitler but he's got Chamberlain beat.
-> was one of the directors of ACORN, which is involved in massive voter registration crimes all over the country
-> is at least a closet communist, if not worse.
I mean let's not pretend that Palin has the more troubling ideology amongst the candidates.
Why is there so much tolerance for people with "scientific" opinion with such entirely anti-scientific opinions like : ...)
-> we know everything
-> everything we "know" is correct
-> everyone else is wrong (given that not all atheists and scientists agree, this is especially stupid. E.g. nuclear power, or (A)GW, or
-> that there can be no doubt, instead of constant doubt
For the record : I believe in GW, but let's not forget that it's basically a series of computation results, which fail to reasonably predict the most active temperature influence on earth : the sun. They failed to predict that 2005-? would be cooling years, and would cool the globe of a LOT. Furthermore they predict continuous warming moving farther into the future, which is obviously wrong (at some point input/output will obviously balance, no matter the level of co2 in the athmosphere). So there are alarmingly large margins of error in this theory and in reality we'd best give
He's White...Nuff said...
Ok, but GP isn't alone... about 40% of Americans don't pay taxes. How's Obama going to lower taxes for 95% of Americans like he promised?