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How To, When You Have To Encrypt Absolutely Everything?

Dark Neuron writes "My institution has thousands of computers, and is looking at starting an IT policy to encrypt everything, all hard drives, including desktops, laptops, external hard drives, USB flash drives, etc. I am looking at an open source product for Windows, Mac, UNIX, as well as portable hard drives, but I am concerned about overhead and speed penalties. Does anyone have experience and/or advice with encrypting every single device in a similar situation?"

468 comments

  1. TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am looking at an open source product for Windows, Mac, UNIX, as well as portable hard drives ...

    I think you're going to find most people advising you to choose TrueCrypt which boasts:

    I think they're on version 6.1a and I have been impressed with them. You may want to try benchmarking the various encryption algorithms it offers.

    ... but i am concerned about overhead and speed penalties.

    Aren't we all. I mean, no one wants an Office Space like scenario where every day before you leave you have to wait for the damn little bar to cross the screen to save your progress for the day. You have another option which is to wait until the drive manufacturers build all that into the hardware's firmware so that it is as fast as they can make it.

    I wouldn't recommend waiting that long, however.

    Here's my formal suggestion: do a small test on a few users or even a few devices no one depends on, some USB drives, etc. Use them yourself and see what kind of overhead (for both user and device) we're talking about here. Then weigh that with how much comfort you get with universally encrypting everything. If A is greater than B (with a sinister sounding name like 'Dark Neuron' who knows?), draft up a plan. Otherwise, just wait until you have the funds to upgrade the hard drives to those with the built in encryption.

    I do not know for certain but I do not believe there is a painless push-across-the-network way to do this ... I also would feel very uneasy if someone assured me they had a method to do that. Drive encryption is one of those seemingly trivial but necessary reasons why companies have many system administrators and not some automagical solution.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      then you might as well just have used a password in the first place instead of encryption.

      You, sir, are a fucking moron. Please stop posting and do some research before spouting off nonsense.

    2. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 4, Informative

      TrueCrypt isn't without it's bugs. Both 5.1a and 6.0a have cost me two windows installs(one Win2k3, one Win XP pro), which couldn't be recovered with the recovery disk. 6.1a won't even install on my Inspiron 9400, giving me a "memory parity error" on the initial reboot test for full drive encryption. If you want something to trust your data to, truecrypt is not that program(yet).

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    3. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by trifish · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, and as the OP was asking for "real-life" benchmarks, here they are. Tom's Hardware benchmarked TrueCrypt thoroughly and found practically no overhead.

      http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/truecrypt-security-hdd,2125.html

    4. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't there someone who said that the Trucrypt hard-disk driver for Windows was faster than Microsoft's?

    5. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by gregmac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When people check data out though, it has to get stored somewhere. That somewhere might be a local disk, or a USB stick, etc. So those places need to be encrypted if you want to protect against lost/theft.

      Your server can be sufficiently protected (physically and virtually) that it does not need the drives encrypted - encryption does not protect against over-the-wire attacks anyways. While it is probably unreasonable to protect EVERY pc from being stolen, it is not unreasonable to protect servers from being stolen - eg, an alarm that goes off way before anyone gets near the server room. 24/7 guards, if you can afford it, etc.

      --
      Speak before you think
    6. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by pavon · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can encrypt your key with a password (I'm sure truecrypt supports this) but then you might as well just have used a password in the first place instead of encryption.

      WTF? If someone steals a computer and puts a drive in another computer the windows/BIOS password won't do shit, encryption will.

      What you do is store sensitive material on secure servers and have people check out copies of material that they have access to. I'm sure keeping sensitive data off local hard drives would be easier than actually protecting all those hard drives.

      No it won't. If they need to use the data then it will be cached on their computer whether it is stored centrally or not. And if they weren't using the data then it wouldn't have been on the computer to begin with. Centralization will only help if you move from thick-client to a thin-client-like processing of data. That will limit the amount of distribution of sensitive manner - "checking data out" won't.

    7. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      then you might as well just have used a password in the first place instead of encryption. You, sir, are a fucking moron. Please stop posting and do some research before spouting off nonsense.

      I second AC's statement. The GP says to "keep everything on a secure server." Do you know how slow it would be to have to grab all your data off a remote server on a laptop from remote sites? Don't mod him insightful, read what he actually said.

      TrueCrypt Supremacy. I've had it deployed at many organizations and we've seen no performance decrease. One thing to keep in mind is to keep the pagefile /enabled/ when you do full disk encryption. I may be incorrect in doing this, but since the disk is encrypted what's the harm?

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    8. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by sswanny · · Score: 1

      Coming from an Org that encrypts everything the performance hit is not as bad as you might think. Boot times are slower but disk access is not really noticeably slower. Brian Gordon....I'm glad you aren't managing my IT shop or Information Security dept.

    9. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      6.1a won't even install on my Inspiron 9400, giving me a "memory parity error" on the initial reboot test for full drive encryption.

      Have you run memtest86+ and let it go for at least two full tests? Could be one of your sticks is bad.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    10. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by PotatoFarmer · · Score: 4, Informative

      What you do is store sensitive material on secure servers and have people check out copies of material that they have access to. I'm sure keeping sensitive data off local hard drives would be easier than actually protecting all those hard drives.

      I'm not so sure about that. The deal with whole disk encryption is that it's fail-safe; it doesn't matter if something bad happens, the data is stored in a secure state by default. A check-out model doesn't give you that.

      Also, speaking from experience, it's incredibly difficult to get end users to even understand what sensitive data is, much less train them how to work with it in a secure manner. Any security model that relies upon educated (and diligent) users is probably going to fail sooner rather than later.

    11. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Funny

      Coming from an Org that encrypts everything

      Tom Cruise? Is that you?

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    12. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by duffbeer703 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      TrueCrypt in an enterprise? Hahaha!

      What happens when somebody loses their password or keyfile? Or you get an subpoena for a laptop or usb key's content?

      Unfortunately, no open source solution exists. Look at vendors like PGP, McAfee, Pointsec, etc. The outrageous cost is offensive, but you need to pay to pay in an enterprise environment right now.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    13. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by FictionPimp · · Score: 3, Informative

      We use truecrypt for full drive encryption. So far we have encrypted well over 100 notebooks without issue. The full drive encryption has very little overhead and besides a password at start up most users don't even notice.

    14. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The outrageous cost is offensive, but you need to pay to pay in an enterprise environment right now.

      Steve Ballmer? Is that you?

    15. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Zerth · · Score: 4, Informative

      If the pagefile is located on the encrypted volume, not much harm, might make cryptanalysis easier if someone can get two images of your drive at different times.

      If the pagefile is not on the encrypted volume, then it is leaving chunks of no-longer-secure data for anyone to see.

    16. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      WTF? If someone steals a computer and puts a drive in another computer the windows/BIOS password won't do shit, encryption will.

      Alternatively, if the 3 people that know the password are killed in a fluke traffic accident on the way to work, those won't put you out of business, but encryption will.

    17. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by dstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      TrueCrypt in an enterprise? Hahaha!

      What happens when somebody loses their password or keyfile? Or you get an subpoena for a laptop or usb key's content?

      There are these things you may have heard of, once or twice, but probably don't use based on your comment.

      They're called 'backups'. You know, the things you use if somebody drops the laptop while the disk is in use and the heads remove the surface of the platters, or the drive decides it just doesn't want to spin up anymore, or any number of situations.

    18. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by tgd · · Score: 2, Informative

      TrueCrypt can't do full-drive encryption on OS X.

      You have to go commercial for that.

    19. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by KookyMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In addition, the TrueCrypt user community lately is getting the shaft from the "TrueCrypt Foundation".

      Case in point, if you visit their forums, starting about 6 months ago, around the time of release of v6, the forum administrators now delete anything "critical" of TrueCrypt. Basically, your only allowed to discuss the positives of the software, or problems with the intended operation of it. Any "bugs" or "weaknesses" mentioned result in having the thread either locked, more than likely deleted, and if you push an issue, open a second thread on a 'deleted thread' your likely to have your account locked.

      5.1a was the last version released before this new policy of "only positives". Not to mention that the forums are already so heavily locked down (No public email addresses to register accounts, no private messages on the board, no threads that are not 'on topic'). Some of us tried (semi-successfully) to have frequent contributors meet over on Wilder's Security forums. (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/) Difficult though since they started deleting our postings since they weren't on topic, and private messages are impossible.

      Sadly, as a result of this, I used to heavily endorse TrueCrypt, but I can no longer stand behind them until they let the community get re-involved, for the good and the bad.

    20. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by TheCabal · · Score: 5, Informative

      A simple perusal of their website reveals:

      Q: We use TrueCrypt in a corporate/enterprise environment. Is there a way for an administrator to reset a volume password or pre-boot authentication password when a user forgets it (or loses a keyfile)?

      A: Yes. Note that there is no "back door" implemented in TrueCrypt. However, there is a way to "reset" volume passwords/keyfiles and pre-boot authentication passwords. After you create a volume, back up its header to a file (select Tools -> Backup Volume Header) before you allow a non-admin user to use the volume. Note that the volume header (which is encrypted with a header key derived from a password/keyfile) contains the master key with which the volume is encrypted. Then ask the user to choose a password, and set it for him/her (Volumes -> Change Volume Password); or generate a user keyfile for him/her. Then you can allow the user to use the volume and to change the password/keyfiles without your assistance/permission. In case he/she forgets his/her password or loses his/her keyfile, you can "reset" the volume password/keyfiles to your original admin password/keyfiles by restoring the volume header from the backup file (Tools -> Restore Volume Header).

      Similarly, you can reset a pre-boot authentication password. To create a backup of the master key data (that will be stored on a TrueCrypt Rescue Disk and encrypted with your administrator password), select 'System' > 'Create Rescue Disk'. To set a user pre-boot authentication password, select 'System' > 'Change Password'. To restore your administrator password, boot the TrueCrypt Rescue Disk, select 'Repair Options' > 'Restore key data' and enter your administrator password.
      Note: It is not required to burn each TrueCrypt Rescue Disk ISO image to a CD/DVD. You can maintain a central repository of ISO images for all workstations (rather than a repository of CDs/DVDs). For more information see the section Command Line Usage (option /noisocheck).

      Seriously, a little research isn't hard.

    21. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by FictionPimp · · Score: 2, Informative

      We wrote our own tool for storing passwords and the recovery isos. Our users are not administrators so they can't change the passwords on their own.

      It made it all very easy to deal with.

    22. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      What you do is store sensitive material on secure servers and have people check out copies of material that they have access to. I'm sure keeping sensitive data off local hard drives would be easier than actually protecting all those hard drives.

      What if you need to keep sensitive data with you? For instance financial data or health records? Currently I use online banking and access my credit card to monitor my accounts and pay the credit bills. I used to use a service that provided access to my credit reports, but canceled that and am looking for another service. I also want to open an online investment account. If I could I'd also like to have a copy my medical records. For both of these reasons I'd like to be able to encrypt my data.

      Falcon

    23. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      WTF? If someone steals a computer and puts a drive in another computer the windows/BIOS password won't do shit, encryption will.

      He's talking about asymmetric keys vs. symmetric passwords, not passwords of the kind that a bios uses, which has more in common with cinema movie ratings than security.

    24. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Truecrypt is not appropriate because it does not have centralized management capabilities. Trucrypt is an amazing program for a knowledgeable individual to use, but is simply lacking in features organizations require.

      I don't have a complete answer (I know Checkpoint offers a product that claims to do this, but I haven't tested it). I will say that encrypting everything is easy; managing keys is the difficult part. Keep that in mind while evaluating.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    25. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      Encryption can create a challenge in the same way that waving a red flag in front of a bull creates a predictable response.
                  I wonder if NSA, FBI or IRS are more drawn to encrypted materials than non encrypted materials.

    26. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by antdude · · Score: 1

      Is there a dedicated bootable media that will stress test the system since memtest86 is near useless?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    27. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Did you try disabling AHCI in your BIOS first? This would require a reinstall of windows regardless but it will allow truecrypt to function properly.

    28. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by znerk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      memtest86 may be the "hello world" of stress tests, it's true.

      I'd like to spew my first slashdot car analogy:

      If you run memtest, it might be said that you're doing the equivalent of kicking the tires of your vehicle. However... If the wheels fall off when you kick them, it's a good indication you need new ones. It may not be an "uber stress test" but it is a good way to give it a once-over, doesn't require one to even know what "compile" means, let alone wanting to generate md5 sums to "really thrash your RAM", and can be accomplished in an hour or so, rather than days. Besides, it comes on most LiveCD distros, and is therefore easily accessible to most "normal" people.

      In other words, I'm glad you have a good super-duper stress test for your memory, but for those of us who have a life instead of a CS degree, memtest86 is good enough.

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    29. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by mcspoo · · Score: 0, Redundant

      See: http://www.xkcd.com/538/ for details on how to circumvent encryption... nothing is 100% :)

    30. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

      I've used Truecrypt a lot. I have many truecrypt volumes.

      Truecrypt is great, but you have to be aware of the problems with your devices which will appear to be Truecrypt problems.

      #1) File Handles and slow memory cards. I have several Memory Stick card. When trying to Mac OS X 10.5 with Truecrypt against these, they constantly dismount and corrupt. I believe the memory card and/or card reader can't handle the overhead of Truecrypt. This also begs the question how are you going to get your digital cameras to work with Truecrypt?

      #2) Corruption on volumes. I have tried to run large (50GB range) Truecrypt volumes on USB drives in XP, but gave up. If Windows crashes, or if you forget to dismount the Truecrypt volumes then safely eject the drive, then shutdown - you will eventually corrupt the Truecrypt volume to the point of having to do a chkdsk and loosing data.

      Truecrypt is great. I use it daily. But to say you would put 100% of your all your data and drives on it? I wouldn't go that far.

      IBM has laptops which have embedded encryption on them. There are IDE/SATA cards which will encrypt your entire HDD system. That is what I'd start with on implementation. SC Magazine, while I consider an advert and not a true mag, has a lot of adverts on encryption systems. That's a great place to search for these products.

    31. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Truecrypt is not the solution your looking for. For starters, management won't by into it because Truecrypt does not have key escrow. Nor does it have any sort of auditing or compliance features, which will be vital in a corporate setting. (For ill or good is a manner of opinion, but the reality is reliable reporting is the key between having a stolen laptop be reported as a property loss, or having to spend thousands on investigating what data was on the laptop, and if there is any chance that PII was on the device, sending out warnings.)

      Which means that you'll have to look into other products. Everything is expensive, to varying degrees of expensive. Some solutions are:

      Both products work with Seagates Momentous FDE.3 drives, and will software encrypt non FDE drives.

      McAfee also offers the ability to lock out USB devices from running on computers (as does a product called Sanctuary, but if you go McAfee, just bite the bullet and use one provider)

      As far as speed differences: The Seagate FDE (a SATA drive) on my laptop (A Dell D620 (1.8Ghz)) is faster, even with the WinMagic management software installed then the (unencrypted) PATA drive on my Dell GX620 (A 3.0ghz Pentium D) In general you can expect a 10-15% performance decrease with software encryption. How much this effects the user will depend on what they do. The only real way to know is to test.

    32. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      The cost isn't outrageous. Encryption products have a much higher quality bar than most other products.

      First - you really need experienced security developers. There aren't a lot of us out there.
      Second, there's a massive amount of auditing that happens. Algorithms, code implementation, UI interfaces, key storage. Everything has to be secure - or at the least fail gracefully without exposing key material or unsecured data.

      Lastly, of course if you want the government to use your nifty products, your product must complete FIPS 140.2 testing through an outside lab (not cheap).

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    33. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by BLQWME · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, that was Rod Blagojevich.

      --
      "Nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you're a hit man or a video gamer"- Jack Thompson
    34. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Score+Whore · · Score: 4, Informative

      The post you reply to is written by a numbskull. Compiling software doesn't even begin to ensure that all possible memory locations accessed and bit values are written. The vast majority of what is going on during a compile and/or md5 sum is going to happen in the processor's L1 & L2 caches.

      On the other hand memtest86(+) has a methodology that includes disabling cache and ensures that all possible locations are written to and read from. Additionally there is a mixture of patterns used, from random patterns for general testing to specific patterns (both bit value & access ordering) for exercising known failure modes of DRAM.

      Finally the idea that you can "stress" you RAM is nuts. Outside of running the device out of spec (e.g. overclocking), the only "stress" possible is heat and just being on will get it into the normal operating temperatures. Anything else is what it's designed to do, there is no ubermagic access pattern driven by that "well known" gcc that causes DRAM to fall over dead.

    35. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by znerk · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the heads-up. I had a feeling something like that was the case, but I also feel that my response stood on its own merits.

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
    36. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tom Cruise? Is that you?

      From the FAQ:

      A: Yes. Note that there is no "back door" implemented in TrueCrypt

    37. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by fava · · Score: 2, Informative

      Believe or not that method has a name.

      Its called "rubber hose cryptanalysis": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_hose_cryptanalysis

    38. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Shadow-isoHunt · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's the first thing I did. My memory is fine, it's truecrypt.

      --
      www.isoHunt.com
    39. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they'd be wrong, as the Truecrypt driver is actually a filter driver that sits between the hard disk drivers and the filesystem drivers.

    40. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      That data is f****ing valuable and its mine, I'm not just going to give it away for free...

    41. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by chrome · · Score: 1

      asshat.

    42. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      TrueCrypt in an enterprise? Hahaha!

      What happens when somebody loses their password or keyfile? Or you get an subpoena for a laptop or usb key's content?

      You appear to be complaining that TrueCrypt doesn't have a backdoor to allow access by someone without the passphrase. If it had one, it would need to be taken out back and shot.

    43. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by DuckDodgers · · Score: 1

      This page has some very simple disk testing which you can run in Linux or with cygwin for disk IO bandwidth: http://www.westnet.com/~gsmith/content/postgresql/pg-disktesting.htm

      We ran that test on our servers on the raw hard drives with NTFS filesystems, and then on Truecrypt-encrypted disks with NTFS filesystems. Believe it or not, the Truecrypt disks actually read and wrote data faster than the raw disks. The advantage wasn't huge, but it was a consistent 2 MB/s.

      Conduct your own tests.

    44. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          The May 2003 version of the Wikipedia page is easier to read. :) Less words saying the same thing. Well, it doesn't mention the " " method. (I wonder if Slashcode can handle Cyrillic.)

          An armbar and legsweep to the floor, a knee to the back of the neck, and a subtle twist to the wrist is usually enough to get information from people. When they can feel limbs being removed, they're likely to tell you anything you want, and then some. If it doesn't work, finish removing the limb, let them recover for a few days, and try again on the next limb. No one is so determined to protect their employer that they WANT to be quadriplegic.

          And, the dummy install is stupid. If the attacker knows and expects particular information, when they find bogus information, they should just be mad. What are they going to do, say "oh thanks for the info, have a nice day", and find out it's bogus later.

          I guess it all depends on who you're trying to defend from.

          The biggest security risk is still, and always will be, internal.

         

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    45. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Nope, guess not. Replace the empty quotes with "thermorectal cryptanalysis"

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    46. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by darth+dickinson · · Score: 1

      Most modern disk encryption systems have a way to reset the boot password. At least the product they use in my org does (PointSec).

    47. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by fractalrock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are there any theories as to why this is?
      I don't understand what the 'Foundation' would stand to gain from this sort of behavior. It is an open source / free app., and they aren't selling anything. Not that that is an excuse.
      I knew something was up when the Truecrypt forums were down for weeks, prior to the 6.0 release. No real reason given, but screw anyone who needed info in the mean time.

    48. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't about remote attacks, it's about stolen hardware. Remote attacks can get around encryption by executing a trojan in the user context of the person whose encryption key is used to encrypt the data.

      You're assuming that the attack against an unencrypted system and against an encrypted system will be the same if the encryption key protecting passphrase is encrypted against a password. What you don't seem to realize is that the attack against a key-encrypted hard drive with a passphrase-encrypted key is a dictionary attack. The attack against an unencrypted hard drive is never a dictionary attack; it's Knoppix.

    49. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, I'm complaining that TrueCrypt doesn't include a scalable mechanism for escrowing private keys in an organization.

      I can deploy a FIPS-compliant, secure encryption solution from McAfee, Pointsec, PGP, WinMagic, and others, and still meet my legal and fiduciary responsibilities.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    50. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by windex82 · · Score: 1

      This has got to be the most ignorant thing I have ever read on the Internet.

    51. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by windex82 · · Score: 1

      Close...

      I'm in agreement that encrypting the entire system is not required. Although there are benchmarks showing that there is no performance loss, it is another thing to go wrong.

      Instead, I'd suggest we forget the first portion of what you said and change the second part to..

      What you do is store sensitive material on secure servers and have people check out copies of material that they have access to a specified local encrypted volume.

      This way if there does end up being a problem with the encryption software (see other posts where users have been unable to recover their OS from fully encrypted volumes) the only data to be lost is the checked out data that still resides on the server. With this method if there are any data corruption bugs (seems to be able to happen to the best of software) you do not have to re-image every device that ends up corrupt.

      I think the next version of the boards software should allow for negative scoring. This way things that are just wrong can be -5 informative instead of flaimebait. Anyone else agree, has probably been suggested before.

    52. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice about TC is still portability among OSs (Windows, Linux, Max) and relative solidity.

      You can share an HD with your office sensitive data among OSs if you need to use both for example

      Pity the Linux version is horribly doomed by windows-oriented programming style, with a number of disgusting oddities, among which:

      - crap command line parameters (handling)

      - X interface that appears whenever you don't expect it (for example `truecrypt --help` on an X enabled terminal opens a text window with the command line syntax)

      - incompatibility with the standard mount.$FS schemes (you have to work on some hacks to have truecrypt volumes into fstab)

      - incompatibility with the fsck scheme (not talking to the OS between the 'attach the dm-crypt target and mounting the volume, odd naming of the Device Mapper target that does not let the usual tools do the check job)

      luckily tc comes with the source, that makes it safer and modifyable, however I have not worked on it, have no idea about the licence

    53. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to that, why do the authors go to such great lengths to hide their identities? I've tried to find info on who's behind the "True Crypt Foundation" only to find nothing. It seems like the goal would be transparency with such a project, and with such positive community support, what's with the paranoia?

    54. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PGP, Pointsec, SafeBoot, and others offer two things:

      The first is policy compliance. A lot of companies have PCI-DSS, Sarbanes-Oxley, HIPAA, and other laws they must follow. A commercial enterprise product makes sure that all laptops that are on the corporate network are encrypted.

      The second is recovery. One can do a recovery by encrypting a laptop with TC system encryption with a known passphrase, storing the recovery ISO in a secure place, then having the user change the password. However, on an enterprise level, there needs to be a more automated solution due to the sheer number of machines to manage.

      Comparing PGP to TrueCrypt is like comparing a ball peen hammer to a claw hammer. Both hammer nails extremely well, but both have different tasks they are primarily designed for.

    55. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TrueCrypt is great, but the problem is that since version 5.0 they moved from CLI to GUI in Linux, which sucks completely.
      Therefore I'm still using version 4.3a.

      So now you need to install wxgtk to build it, and run X to use it, which is insane to me.
      Also their build system isn't based on autoconf, cmake, or any other sane build system.

    56. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What????

      can your provide a link to this?

      I haven't seen this editing of the forum....

    57. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by WarlockD · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally I have been using mpmemory myself. If you download dell diagnostics for server's and get the mpmemory.exe dos program out of the iso it makes it works great in other systems.

      It will error out initially when it can't find a way to pull logs, but now it runs on most systems. Haven't tried it on nvidia boards yet.

      Nice thing about it is that it activates all the cpus/cores you have so it makes memory testing that much faster.

      Sigh, I wish dell would release the source.

    58. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not the same AC as posted earlier, but I did have a computer where memtest ran for over a day without errors, but I would get random errors when doing a kernel compile which, through trial and error discovered one of the RAM sticks was bad. So from that I can say memtest may not detect bad RAM and it is possible to show up a memory error missed by memtest by compiling code. I also accept that it isn't possible to test all RAM by compiling code because you have no control over which RAM is used, which is why I wouldn't personally advocate that method of testing RAM.

    59. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      How can one get TrueCrypt to work?

      I want to use it on our admin's flash drives and teach them how to use it. I've never used it (but I can figure it out), but if someone could give me a very short "idiot's guide to truecrypt", I'd really appreciate it.

    60. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another AC here. Same issue. Memtest said things were fine. But when I built 500 kernels I saw trouble about 1% of the time. Turned out to be a design defect in my motherboard. There was a race condition when I filled all the memory slots. I tried several variations on RAM (vendors, speeds) before learning of that "known defect" in the motherboard.

    61. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That someone was Steve Gibson, in the show on Truecrypt 5.0
      (Transcripts of the show notes are here Search for "faster with encryption" (without the quotes)).

      The only way this even remotely makes any sense is if Truecrypt itself is caching a fairly significant amount of data before writing it to the drive, or Steve's tests were with files that were less then the cache size of the drive.

    62. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      The problem with boot passwords given to users or even self generate is they will eventually write them down somewhere, or give it to their spouse/children so they can play WoW on daddy/mommys laptop.
      Passwords are only safe if you can force them to be refreshed at a certain time period and not repeated.

    63. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      You're right, encryption doesn't protect against that. If you have information that people are willing to sever limbs for, you need to implement a "defense in depth" strategy. Armed guards, physical control of whatever has this data, etc.

      Disk encryption is more about protecting against you leaving your laptop in a cab or a smash-and-grab theft from your car.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    64. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by noidentity · · Score: 1

      the forum administrators now delete anything "critical" of TrueCrypt. Basically, your only allowed to discuss the positives of the software, or problems with the intended operation of it. Any "bugs" or "weaknesses" mentioned result in having the thread either locked, more than likely deleted, and if you push an issue, open a second thread on a 'deleted thread' your likely to have your account locked.

      So you just need to be creative. For example, TrueCrypt has some nifty new features. One is its random deletion feature, useful if you need to drum up some extra work on the job. Another is that its forums never have any negative stuff, so you won't get the blues reading it.

    65. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by syousef · · Score: 1

      6.1a won't even install on my Inspiron 9400, giving me a "memory parity error" on the initial reboot test for full drive encryption.

      Have you run memtest86+ and let it go for at least two full tests? Could be one of your sticks is bad.

      I don't think you understand how bad the Inspiron 9400 is. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love mine when it's working right but...

      1) I'm on my 3rd hard disk. Never lost a laptop hard disk on a previous machine

      2) I've had NMI parity errors that appear to be either hardware related (video card overheating) or driver related (that was the fix for me - replaced video and wireless drivers). There may be multiple causes. The following thread is now on it's 68th page (not a typo). I have since seen one NMI error but that's in about 6 months whereas with other drivers they happened daily.

      http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=92036&page=68

      3) I had an issue with a non-paged memory pool leak that took some weeks to track down and was causing it to slowly leak memory until the pool was exhausted and the laptop blue screened (usually if it's been running for 24 hours, with or without hibernation in between). What fixed it? A reset of the bios. Something I considered a last resort before re-sinstalling the OS having exhausted windows debugging tools to track down a process. Unbelievable.

      Oh and memtest, prime95, HD Tune (SMART) and Dell's own diagnostics report no errors.

      My advice: If you've got an Inspiron 9400 working right, leave the OS alone and stick to installing or uninstalling apps. This has been a cheap laptop until you consider the amount of time I've spent on it!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    66. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by syousef · · Score: 1

      Case in point, if you visit their forums, starting about 6 months ago, around the time of release of v6, the forum administrators now delete anything "critical" of TrueCrypt. Basically, your only allowed to discuss the positives of the software, or problems with the intended operation of it. Any "bugs" or "weaknesses" mentioned result in having the thread either locked, more than likely deleted, and if you push an issue, open a second thread on a 'deleted thread' your likely to have your account locked.

      Find a related usenet forum or start one (though I understand that's difficult these days). It's unmoderated, and you since you have no control over what others say you can't easily be held accountable for their actions. Expect lots of trolls though.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    67. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by TheCabal · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you've managed to point out the problem with every cryptosystem that ever was or will be. You win 1 Internet.

    68. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      The post you reply to is written by a numbskull. Compiling software doesn't even begin to ensure that all possible memory locations accessed and bit values are written. The vast majority of what is going on during a compile and/or md5 sum is going to happen in the processor's L1 & L2 caches.

      On the other hand memtest86(+) has a methodology that includes disabling cache and ensures that all possible locations are written to and read from. Additionally there is a mixture of patterns used, from random patterns for general testing to specific patterns (both bit value & access ordering) for exercising known failure modes of DRAM.

      Finally the idea that you can "stress" you RAM is nuts. Outside of running the device out of spec (e.g. overclocking), the only "stress" possible is heat and just being on will get it into the normal operating temperatures. Anything else is what it's designed to do, there is no ubermagic access pattern driven by that "well known" gcc that causes DRAM to fall over dead.

      I'll chime in here. MemTest86 and MemTest86+ are only capable of finding memory that has completely failed. Where MemTest86(+) falls down is cases where the timings between the CPU and RAM are marginal. Such as setting the memory timings in the BIOS too low (even if the memory is reportedly spec'd as such). Been there, done that. The system would pass MemTest86(+) with flying colors, but would crash regularly (although randomly as is the wont with timing issues) under normal use.

      My preferred method for finding borderline memory issues like that is Prime95 in torture-test mode. Calculation of the Mersennes is extremely CPU/cache/memory intensive, and the Prime95 program self-checks the calculations. Which means, in general, that you can get it to uncover instability issues within the first 24-48 hours of starting the self-test. On the flip side, if you can run 48+ hours without seeing an error, you're probably not going to see memory errors under normal use.

      (I've also seen cases in the past where a Windows 2000 server would corrupt data going across the onboard SATA ports. But only when the CPU was running close to 100% utilization. And this was a server/workstation class motherboard from a well known supplier. So often, the only way to really uncover stability issues is to come up with an access pattern that stress tests the various components simultaneously.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    69. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Is there a dedicated bootable media that will stress test the system since memtest86 is near useless?

      Bootable? Probably not, but try the Prime95 client from mersenne.org. It has a self-test function, and because of the calculations involved, it places an extremely heavy load on CPU/RAM/cache. (It also self-checks its calculations to see whether an error has crept in.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    70. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by antdude · · Score: 1

      Hmm, there should be a Prime95 bootable media so people don't have to worry about trashing their datas. :)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    71. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      I would say the transition from " " to "thermorectal cryptanalysis" was quite a jarring one.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    72. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Thanks for letting me know about this, it says alot about a company when they use tactics like these, I will be careful to avoid them in the future

    73. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He never said anything about "stressing" the RAM, only that it should be run at least twice. The more runs on MEMTEST the better, because RAM can doesn't have to fail every time. I have personally had RAM that could pass one or two tests before it finally failed. Because of that, if I have doubts about RAM, I usually like to let it run all night. It has nothing to do with a stress test, but just that unreliable memory may not fail every time that memory is written to or read from, sometimes it works great. There are a huge number of variables (including temperature) that can cause this behavior.

    74. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by gratzk · · Score: 1

      I use truecrypt since 3.0 for my personnal 2"5 drive.

      However, being a debian user at home while using windows at work (I know, I know),
      I find it boring to recompile the truecrypt kernel module each time the kernel
      package is updated.

      The last month, I decided to have a try with FreeOTFE:
          - it supports natively luks partition
          - combined with ext2 IFS it gives me a nice interoperable solution
              without having to be limited by the 4G FAT32 limit
          - mounted on my debian box I can rsync my datas without problems.

      Considering UI integration, it looks less mature than truecrypt and
      I experienced some problem after a ..hum.. abrupt windows hibernation.

      An fsck was needed... But apart this problems it looks good.

      Is anybody using FreeOTFE there?
      And is anybody having bad/good experience with that tool?
       

    75. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Repossessed · · Score: 1

      Unlikely to bu useful. memory parity errors in windows are usually video ram (or video drivers).

      And no, he isn't using shared memory for his video card, the 9400 didn't have an on-board video option.

      --
      Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
    76. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      You're the moron. I don't mean passwording your windows user account. I mean that if you encrypt your data with a large key that you have to keep unencrypted, the key is likely going to be compromised with the encrypted data. The only really secure element of volume encryption is symmetric-encrypting the key itself with a password that is stored separately from the data (in people's brains). But then a cryptographic attack turns from iterating through a 2048-bit key to simply running a dictionary attack on the known encrypted key. In other words, your robust volume encryption solution is a house of cards resting on a simple password, exactly like keeping your sensitive documents on a secure server. (which isn't slow at all; ever heard of web applications like Google apps? You can use them over the internet. Over the local network can be a thousand times faster.) Well, with one important difference; a server can stop accepting passwords after 3 or 4 failures, while attackers could have a room full of computers running for days nonstop on the encrypted data.

      Controlling access by hiding data behind intelligent daemons is always better than just encrypting it. As for working copies being compromised, you don't encrypt memory anyway on an encrypted volume so it's no different- just make sure you don't write it to the disk, or make sure you clean it up afterwards. You should never have to have a copy on the hard drive (windows page file is encrypted by a key that's stored only in memory, so it's irretrievable on reboot, right?); network access is ubiquitous, even on the road, and many organizations choose (and thrive on) a server-centric solution which necessitates network access to do any work at all on their data.. a small price for a huge gain in security. Full thin-client solutions are best of course but greedy on bandwidth and have many other drawbacks. But thick-clients can still have some of the benefits by checking out documents into memory and integrating the "save button" to uploading to the network. I know Visual Studio does this and I'm sure Office 2007 must also.

      Why would you let even encrypted data be scattered around carelessly when you could just control access to it in the first place? Granted you have to control how clients behave, which is always very iffy, but you're definitely doing that anyway with volume encryption, trusting people not to leave any data around unencrypted (lol right). Of particular interest is that Trusted Computing platform; yes it's evil as applied to your personal computer and DRM, but it's exactly for this corporate-network situation that a way of controlling client software's access to the memory which holds sensitive data was devised. Don't kill me for this slashdot, but utilizing a TPM to restrict access to protected memory to only signed applications, and an OS that can give signed applications a secure operating environment, you can have end-to-end control of every copy of every piece of sensitive data.

    77. Re:TrueCrypt or Wait for On Drive Upgrades by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      For almost all applications you only need one file at a time -documents, source code, etc- and you don't have to "grab all your data" and anyway usually they're like 10k max each..

  2. True Crypt by fork_daemon · · Score: 0, Redundant

    truecrypt seems to be the best option.

  3. Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Concern · · Score: 3, Funny

    Let me explain to you how this works. In pictures:

    http://xkcd.com/538/

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
    1. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by resonantblue · · Score: 1

      ... don't forget to look at the hidden title text on that one. I think that sums it up pretty accurately.

    2. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Sancho · · Score: 5, Funny

      Of course, if you're using Truecrypt, they won't know when to stop hitting you.

    3. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Rinisari · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah...

      Encryption will save your and your institution versus legal attacks, but if others' "people" may talk to your "people" with a wrench, then only iron will can save you.

      Even biometrics can be fooled (e.g., eyeballs and fingers aren't that hard to remove these days).

    4. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Let me explain to you how this works

      It works exactly like your front door lock: it raises the cost of caring. When it costs $5 for a wrench to find out whats on the drive, you have to care at least $5 to bother trying. Drives and usb sticks will continue to be stolen and resold for their value as storage devices, but anyone wanting to get the information stored on them will have to care a whole lot more than $NZ18.

    5. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by pdabbadabba · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh. Well THAT sounds like a plus.

    6. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. Let me explain to you how this works, with a story link.

      Companies are storing more, and more, and more, and more, and more information. About their customers, about their suppliers, about themselves, about employees, about employees friends, about customers friends, about customers employees, etc , etc, etc. It's like a Panopticon Party, and everyone with a datacentre is invited. With hard disc space costs plummeting, processor power rising, and networked recorders becoming ubiquitous, companies and managers everywhere have succumbed to the data deluge, and have meticulously stored and categorized every last bit they can lay their hands on. (For what purpose is a question for another day).

      The result. Exabytes of data sitting idle on servers, unencrypted, waiting to to stolen. Predictably it is, usually with nothing more than a USB key, or USB hard disc. The people who pay for such illicit data presumably want it all for something. If the data was even encrypted in the most basic fashion, most of the constant data breaches we here about would never have occurred.

      Companies have two options. First, stop gathering and storing this data. That will never happen. Most compaines are data junkies by this point. Secondly; Encrypt, Everything. Everything. Any unencrypted portion of your network is a data breach waiting to happen. Even the slightest crack is a PR disaster waiting to happen. I don't care if its a telnet client on a headless offline BSD system, sitting in a securely locked room in the basement. Someone WILL find a way to lose data using it.

      I applaud the submitters goal. It is a worthy one, and is likely the only real thing standing between your credit card number and a fraudsters ebay login page. More power to them.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    7. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      More like,

      "Argh, I lost my key! I lost all those files that we need to get the government off our backs, and all our customer lists, and everything! Shit! We just went out of business!".

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    8. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by peacefinder · · Score: 1

      LOL. Awesome. I wonder if that will end up as +5 insightful or +5 funny?

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    9. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try keeping a believable pulse, complete with oxygenated blood, going in a removed eyeball.

    10. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try keeping a believable pulse, complete with oxygenated blood, going in a removed eyeball.

      Try replacing your eyeball, once I've made a functional duplicate, and published the design online.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    11. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by BrotherBeal · · Score: 3, Funny

      eyeballs and fingers aren't that hard to remove these days

      These days? Bodily mutilation is like the GEICO of injury - so easy, a caveman could do it.

      --
      I'm disabling ads until because I choose not to reward redesigns that are less usable than "view source".
    12. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      If only, i only ever managed to put two encrypted partitions on the same disk before i ran into trouble. just the presence of stenographic software to reveal the 1st partition will almost certainly get you tortured until you reveal a second.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
    13. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      Sorry when were the days when eyeballs and fingers _were_ hard to remove?

    14. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah...

      Encryption will save your and your institution versus legal attacks, but if others' "people" may talk to your "people" with a wrench, then only iron will can save you.

      +2 to Will save? The scenario does seem to call for a fortitude save instead...

    15. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by dougmc · · Score: 1

      Yes, because everybody keeps 500 GB drives of random data on their computer.

    16. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Sorry when were the days when eyeballs and fingers _were_ hard to remove?"

      It is not the fingers that are hard to remove... it is the gun on those died cold fingers... ahem...

    17. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Hal_Porter · · Score: 0, Troll

      Imagine how embarassed you'd be if they beat you with a wrench to make you reveal your password and all they found afterwards was some goat porn.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    18. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by operagost · · Score: 1

      If you hide the encrypted partition (and especially, create a second, unencrypted partition if the OS is encrypted), you have plausible deniability.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    19. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Damn you, I had been waiting for a Slashdot article to come across that I could use that one on.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    20. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fail to see where your functional duplicate matters in the slightest. My security conscious employer is going to know that my eyeball has been removed, and will revoke the authorization immediately after being informed. If I don't show up for work one day, and am unreachable, all of my credentials will again be revoked. My bank is going to be only slightly less responsive - the worst case will be that they are informed by my employer that something is amiss.

      Perhaps you could describe the scenario you envision?

    21. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, everyone who uses truecrypt and whose disk is only half-full..

    22. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 1

      More like:

      ARGH!! I built a business around my own stupidity. I never did any backups of crucial information and I have only one copy.

      This is like drinking DURING your liver replacement.

    23. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Otto · · Score: 1

      More like,

      "Argh, I lost my key! I lost all those files that we need to get the government off our backs, and all our customer lists, and everything! Shit! We just went out of business!".

      Ever heard of a backup? If you don't have backups, then what happens when your hard drives fail?

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    24. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by DrMaurer · · Score: 1

      You can find a 5 dollar wrench...at Harbor Freight. You'd just have to be a little more mean about it.

      --
      Dan
    25. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe for you.

      I use encryption on my laptop because I don't want my private stuff posted on the internet when I lose it somehow.

    26. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even biometrics can be fooled (e.g., eyeballs and fingers aren't that hard to remove these days).

      I'd argue that eyeballs and fingers have not gotten any easier to remove 'these days'

    27. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      I fail to see where your functional duplicate matters in the slightest. My security conscious employer is going to know that my eyeball has been removed, and will revoke the authorization immediately after being informed. If I don't show up for work one day, and am unreachable, all of my credentials will again be revoked. My bank is going to be only slightly less responsive - the worst case will be that they are informed by my employer that something is amiss.

      Perhaps you could describe the scenario you envision?


      Well, first I make a copy of your eyeball, and use it to access your bank account, and make some long distance phone calls, and buy some stuff. Then I publish it online so others can make copies and do the same, pretending to be you.

      So, you contact the bank, and ask them to revoke your eyeball, and you call the phone company and your credit company and do the same thing. Fine, now I can't pretend to be you.

      Now, how are you going to open another bank account? Are you going to grow a new eyeball? Are they going to email you a new eyeball that has to be activated within the next 24 hours or it will expire?

      If you want an example, a group in Germany already did the same thing, except it was a fingerprint and not an eyeball. Wolfgang Schauble, who was Germany's interior minister at the time and for all I know still is, was a big supporter of systematic biometrics. Then his fingerprint became something you could download off the internet and tape to your finger. I wonder how he feels about the idea now...

      http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/german_minister.html

      Still confused?

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    28. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I think I understand the basic point of your argument now - the misapplication of Biometrics is a problem, rather than biometric identification itself. The way I read your original post, implied that biometrics themselves were questionable because of an apparent ease of duplication.

      Going back to the main discussion - What business does a bank have going to 3-factor security? 2-factor identification should be the max used outside of high-security industries. Similarly, just throwing encryption at everything under the sun does nothing to improve security.

    29. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fail to see where your functional duplicate matters in the slightest. My security conscious employer is going to know that my eyeball has been removed, and will revoke the authorization immediately after being informed. If I don't show up for work one day, and am unreachable, all of my credentials will again be revoked. My bank is going to be only slightly less responsive - the worst case will be that they are informed by my employer that something is amiss. Perhaps you could describe the scenario you envision?

      Realistically your eye would not need to be removed to grab an image, any more than your fingers need to be removed to grab a fingerprint. Its more complicated, but quite doable.

      More to the point of the OP, once your fingerprint/retina scan is comprimised, how do you get a new finderprint retina scan?

    30. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "is likely the only real thing standing between your credit card number and a fraudsters ebay login page"

      Hahahaha. Given that your credit card number is printed on the card, visible to anyone that looks when you pull it out to swipe it at the store, there are far easier ways to steal your card. Hell, I just had to use an old imprinter to buy a sandwich because of a network problem at the shop.

      Let's face it. The only REAL way to maintain your credit card number's privacy is to not have one. Pay in cash.

      Wait, even then you may have "private" data on third party servers. Encryption won't stop that, because as you note nearly EVERY company has that data and if even ONE company doesn't encrypt, you're breached.

      Better to just fake your death, change your name, and never get within 20 feet of a computer again.

      Privacy is a myth; true privacy exists in obscurity, unless you plan on being a troll in a cave.

      Apologies to the /. community members who are in fact trolls in caves. It's a metaphor.

    31. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by McNihil · · Score: 1

      "...categorized every last bit they can lay their hands on..."

      should read

      "...categorized every last bit they can lay their filthy little sausage fingers on..."

      Because if it wasn't data that was worth anything they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. And doing it on non corporate data protects them from being subject to IP problems in the short term too.

      So if a corporation is fully encrypted one should ask "what are they hiding?"

      Too much security brings attention too.

    32. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          But, just in case I did care...

          I found this 10" pipe wrench for $4.20 + tax and free shipping.

          Don't forget, have someone else buy it, with cash, and only ever touch it wearing gloves. You wouldn't want to leave your fingerprints on a bloodied up wrench.

          But sometimes it's worth the extra money to get a "splitting maul". Be sure to size it where you can control it. Too heavy, and you might hurt yourself, or accidentally remove something you didn't intend to you. And, it'll make cleanup that much easier. It's easy to toss bite size pieces to the fishes without being noticed. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    33. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by harl · · Score: 1

      Biometrics is completely unable to deal with an exploit. How do you change your password once it's been compromised?

      Sure your access will be cut off but what happens next time you need to use biometrics? Get a new set of eyes or finger prints?

      --
      I find being offended by me offensive.
    34. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Biometrics should never be used as a substitute for a password. The correct implementation of security in order of factors first is:

      1. Something you know (passwords)

      2. Something you have (tokens)

      3. Something you are (biometrics)

      Using these incorrectly, or out of order, is not an argument against the factor in question. Only against the incorrect usage.

    35. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by mrcaseyj · · Score: 1

      Parent is funny and insightful. But seriously, the idea is that normally when you're being tortured, your options are to betray your friends and fellow heroes or continue to endure the torture. But with Truecrypt, it doesn't matter if you reveal all your hidden volumes. They'll continue to torture you forever or until they think no human could resist. Betraying your friends and giving them your hidden volumes won't reduce the torture. Knowing this increases the chance that you can hold out against the torture.

      On the other hand, if it's not something you're willing to get tortured forever for, then maybe you should use a solution which allows you to prove you've given up everything. Also, you might not want to have Truecrypt on you when you go through customs, or they might confiscate your hardware. Getting it back may be more trouble than it's worth.

    36. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Seedy2 · · Score: 1

      Ok, I have to ask, I keep seeing replies that boil down to "that's what backups are for" in response to key loss issues.
      I am wondering how a backup helps if you lose the key.
      Two things:
      1) If you are backing up your files in clear text, you might as well not bother encrypting any of it.
            Anyone who wants your data will steal the tapes.
      2) If you are backing up the encrypted info, it uses the same key as what's on disk.
      2a)I suppose you could decrypt everything then re-encrypt it with a different key onto the tape, but why.

      Am I missing something here, or what?
      Multiple keys and or multiple people knowing them seems to be the only real solution to key loss.
      Of course then you run into the old saying of, X people can keep a secret only if X-1 of them are dead.

      --
      Nothing to say here... move along
    37. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      If you hide the encrypted partition (and especially, create a second, unencrypted partition if the OS is encrypted), you have plausible deniability.

      It is not uncommon for people under torture to confess to crimes they did not commit. Plausible deniability won't help you if you confess to the real, valuable partition just to get the wrench dudes to stop.

    38. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      That's what prosthetic eyes are for. One for everyday use. The other in a bank vault. No, not as a spare. But as an offsite back-up of your password!

    39. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by juenger1701 · · Score: 1

      not really a good thing when you think about it

    40. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by operagost · · Score: 1

      Wow, what you said made very little sense. Why give away the key to the real data when you can give away the key to the fake? Either is very easy.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    41. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 1

      Wow, what you said made very little sense. Why give away the key to the real data when you can give away the key to the fake? Either is very easy.

      Because they're physically torturing you, and you will give them exactly what they want because you hope that will MAKE IT STOP?

      Maybe it's hard for you to understand this if you're a super-macho cool-headed ultra-rationalist who will cooly and rationally attempt to deceive the torturers while they TEAR AWAY YOUR FINGERNAILS. Or maybe you'll be more like the rest of us, and quickly think that you have the information they want, and if give it to them, you remove one powerful reason for them to continue to cause you more pain than you ever imagined before.

    42. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by shakparl · · Score: 0
    43. Re:Hard Drive Encryption - Theory vs. Reality by Otto · · Score: 1

      Ok, I have to ask, I keep seeing replies that boil down to "that's what backups are for" in response to key loss issues.
      I am wondering how a backup helps if you lose the key.

      Umm... You keep a backup of the key itself. That way, when you lose the key, you have it somewhere else safe and secure.

      Modern encryption systems generally use a sort of dual layer method of encryption. First, you have the main key, which encrypts your data itself. This key is usually rather large, because a short key is pointless when you're encrypting a LOT of data. However, this key is too large to remember, so you keep that key somewhere else.

      Naturally, having that key stored is not safe, so you encrypt it as well, using some other encryption method, and which you secure with a more common means of securing things, like a password. This is your "keyring". Since the keyring is small, it doesn't matter that the password used to secure it is small(ish) too.

      Now, if you keep a backup of the unencrypted (or encrypted with a known password that you won't forget) keyring in a safe and secure place, then losing your password to your normal keyring is not a disaster. Just get your backup keyring and use it to access the data.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  4. Expect it to be slow by jimbobborg · · Score: 1

    SAIC used encryption on all of their Windows laptops. There was a huge speed penalty in startup time and starting applications.

    1. Re:Expect it to be slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm doubtful that hurt a government contractor too much. Hell, most of the users probably never noticed, as they likely take mandatory 15 minute breaks immediately following turning their computers on.

    2. Re:Expect it to be slow by NobodyExpects · · Score: 1

      Software encryption is slow, but using drives with encryption on the hardware will be quicker. I'm not making a product recommendation with Seagate, I understand Fujistsu also has a FDE solution. In an enterprise environment, you can set up centralized password recovery utilities (for when the user goes under the bus, or over the wall to your competitor)...

    3. Re:Expect it to be slow by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      It does go quicker in hardware, but there are lots of gotchas. Do you update machines in the middle of the night and have them reboot? your users will come into the office in the morning, to find their PC still waiting to have the password or finger swipe done in the bios. The software to manage all the keys for these seagate drives is not really there yet. Trying to manage thousands across domains is a pain, and good luck if somebody forgets a password.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    4. Re:Expect it to be slow by dstar · · Score: 1

      I worked for a very large company which rolled out encryption for every laptop over a short period (Less than six months, I think, but it's been a while). I don't know what the encryption software used was, but I didn't notice any slowdown when starting applications.

      As for system startup, it took 10-20 minutes anyway, thanks to everything that got fired up on boot; if the encryption added more time to that, it wasn't enough to notice.

    5. Re:Expect it to be slow by jimbobborg · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised. Most of my users who stuck to the Windows standard there complained quite loudly on a daily basis about how slow it was.

  5. Hiding Something? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MUST... HIDE... PORN...

  6. Yeah... by bytethese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't do it.

    A subtle balance between encrypting most essentials and leaving non-essentials unencrypted. For example, you may want to only encrypt parts of your hard disk as encrypting the whole disk will impact performance.

    Also, watch how external USB keys are encrypted. if you deal with clients and offer loaner machines, their USB drives could become encrypted and useless when they return to their own office.

    I'm all for encrypting, however hopefully the higher ups also consider the potential performance hits and liability issues.

    1. Re:Yeah... by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've heard that full fs encryption on higher end computers has a negligible performance impact (cpu can generally keep up with the hdd) but on lower end machines esp. netbooks, the performance impact can be appreciable. Here is an article with benchmarks

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    2. Re:Yeah... by number11 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you may want to only encrypt parts of your hard disk as encrypting the whole disk will impact performance.

      Yeah, but if you're running Windows, be sure to get the swap file (depending on security concerns, maybe having Win zero the swap file at shutdown might be enough) and all that crap in Documents and Settings. If concerns run to file/folder names, don't forget the MRU lists. I do have a Truecrypt partition, but regularly find bits and pieces of stuff scattered here and there on C: unencrypted.

      Win does not segregate data in a helpful fashion. If my security concerns were serious, I wouldn't dare anything less than whole disk encryption. Actually, I'd probably stop using Windows.

    3. Re:Yeah... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How about the following...

      "My presentation is on this drive and I forgot the password, get my files for me!"

      users dont like it when you say, " sorry, but unless you remember your password all your files on that drive are gone forever."

      That stopped it at my last IT gig, I mentioned that response to the CTO and he said...

      "oooh, Did not think of that. let's skip encryption."

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Yeah... by bytethese · · Score: 1

      Yes, but in today's economy who is buying 1000's of new machines?

      Personally, the firm I work for held off it's normal 3yr rollout of new machines and plans to keep these laptops at least another 1-2yrs. Currently we have 1.83GHz T60's with 1GB RAM and 5400rpm SATA I HDD's. I wouldn't want to throw full disk encryption on those guys, our image is already "slow" enough. :)

    5. Re:Yeah... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it's corporate, just make them encrypt it using their key and a corporate master key. Then you can decrypt it using the master key if some boneheaded user loses their key. You should do this anyway to prevent some user from walking with all of their data, and to maintain SoX compliance.

      Obviously this will increase the overhead, but frankly, encryption should be used sparingly anyway.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    6. Re:Yeah... by Vancorps · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can't tell, are you joking? With all the sarcasm around Slashdot it's sometimes difficult to tell if someone is being snarky.

      The scenario you mention wouldn't happen unless a half-baked encryption scheme was used. HP, RSA, IBM, and even Truecrypt all have recovery options ranging in levels of difficulty to implement. RSA's key management tools are quite handy but you definitely pay a premium for them. HP's are clunky like all HP software, IBM has been doing it for years but again you pay and arm and a leg.

      With Truecrypt you create two to three thumbdrives when you do the initial encryption, two of them store the master encryption key and the third has whatever key is needed for authentication depending on how you want to deploy it. The only fault I have with Truecrypt is that there are a dozen ways to deploy it so you have to read and plan very carefully before deploying it on any level.

      Once you have your flash disk you copy its contents to an encrypted folder on your SAN somewhere and keep the flash drive in a properly fire-proof safe. One flash drive has the keys for over a hundred machines with room for plenty more, keeping two copies ensures that a flash drive dying won't leave your data inaccessible during transport to the server and should the SAN experience some sort of data loss you can go back to the flash drive to recover keys.

      Encryption is pretty scary as your keys are extremely important as you mention, once the key is lost then so is the data. So you take a few precautions ahead of time and then you don't need to worry.

    7. Re:Yeah... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      users dont like it when you say, " sorry, but unless you remember your password all your files on that drive are gone forever."

      That stopped it at my last IT gig, I mentioned that response to the CTO and he said...

      "oooh, Did not think of that. let's skip encryption."

      There's exactly two WTFs here, you and the CTO. We have full disk encryption, but there's a support procedure to identify and get a password reset code. And if all else fails, IT has an extra master login to decode the disk. I don't know what truecrypt has but even a cursory look at the available products would have told you that. No sane business would ever work so that if an employee got run over by the bus, everything that person has been doing is gone forever.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:Yeah... by JoeRandomHacker · · Score: 1

      One policy to address this problem is to require the use of a secondary decryption key held in a safe in company HQ which can access all encrypted data. That way you have some fallback for this sort of situation. PGP/GnuPG can do this; I don't know about whole-disk encryption solutions.

    9. Re:Yeah... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I do have a Truecrypt partition, but regularly find bits and pieces of stuff scattered here and there on C: unencrypted.

      That's why you keep another OS on your Truecrypt partition. Either reboot to your encrypted partition, or just keep a VirtualBox image on the encrypted partition.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Yeah... by madcat2c · · Score: 1

      Sorry, that's called needing a better backup routine to go with your encryption.

    11. Re:Yeah... by Znork · · Score: 1

      Obviously this will increase the overhead

      At least dm-crypt simply has multiple passphrases unlocking the same encryption key, and I'd expect most others to do it the same way. So, fortunately, there's no extra overhead.

    12. Re:Yeah... by scorp1us · · Score: 1

      All you have to do is set a password - the same password - that everyone knows.

      Like:
      password1
      12345
      159753
      258456
      147258369
      963852741

      Now, unjokingly, you may have a common password for everyone. This is not a bad idea if the goal is to protect information from non-employee theft. Like being stolen out of cars, in-office robbery, etc. Protecting against employee theft is next to impossible.

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    13. Re:Yeah... by franl · · Score: 1

      Two words: secret sharing

    14. Re:Yeah... by foo+fighter · · Score: 1

      What a pussy CTO. The proper response is "Tough. We told you to backup to the network. That you are a partner makes it even more critical that the information on your laptop be encrypted, so no exceptions."

      You should have also chosen an enterprise-quality solution that has centralized administration of pre-boot authentication (PBA) keys and a support login. Then the CTO's response could have been "Just because you're a partner, don't bother me. Call the Help Desk and they'll have your password reset in 5 minutes."

      --
      obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
    15. Re:Yeah... by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Wait, flash drive keys? So if someone nicks your users laptop bag, they have the lock AND the key? That's not terribly secure. You should always need a password, otherwise users will just keep the key with the laptop and you've gained nothing in security.

    16. Re:Yeah... by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

      Now, unjokingly, you may have a common password for everyone. This is not a bad idea if the goal is to protect information from non-employee theft. Like being stolen out of cars, in-office robbery, etc. Protecting against employee theft is next to impossible.

      Nothing like one common password... until one employee leaves.

    17. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not true for Truecrypt, but there are hard disk encryption products that provide key manangement. A master key for the IT staff shouldn't be a problem.

    18. Re:Yeah... by Vancorps · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is still a password to use the flash key. You would never expect an end-user to end a 1024bit key themselves after-all. It's not near as bad as you make it out to be especially since there are multiple authentication techniques which you can perform.

      You are correct in that there are a lot of logistics that have to get worked out before such a system can be deployed. Probably why I've spent a year testing different scenarios and how to handle recovery. I'm finally looking at deploying it company wide even though I'm moving towards virtual desktops anyways which are more about strong authentication beside strong encryption.

    19. Re:Yeah... by scorp1us · · Score: 1

      Absolutely true. But there are a jabillion non-ex-employees. The odds are you have his information. You don't have any random thief's information. The idea is that your set of suspects is a much smaller, manageable amount.

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    20. Re:Yeah... by steelfood · · Score: 1

      So you take a few precautions ahead of time and then you don't need to worry.

      So write the password down. If electronic locks are too complicated, change the point of entry to something more manageable, i.e. a physical lock.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    21. Re:Yeah... by paulhar · · Score: 1

      On my EEE 701 I'm luks encrypting a 1TB hard drive that is our home server. While running a tripwire scan on that USB hard disk the machine is able to sustain 23MB/sec (shown via dstat) and given that my users (family) access it via wireless, I'd say that our netbook massively outperforms the requirements I have.

    22. Re:Yeah... by paulhar · · Score: 1

      I assume that your laptops containing the important data are backed up, using Connected, or CrashPlan, or something similar. Otherwise what happens when the hard disk fails or the computer gets stolen?

      So if the user forgets his passwords just perform a restore.

    23. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find Windows security to be just the right thing for many people. Sure, at first glance it seems like it's full of security holes. But a careful observer will notice over time the Windows machine will make that most unaccessible, even with a password. Microsoft knows it's better security if there is a complete shut down of data availability, after all, for years their top priority in making Vista was security.

      And Windows7, to be released at some point in the next year or so, will have the added security that comes along with the title 7. And we all know that's a code word for perfect.

    24. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since I forgot the password to my encrypted hard drive, what makes you think I would remember the password to the flash key?

    25. Re:Yeah... by MaximumFrost · · Score: 1

      I believe what he means is that in a safe somewhere are two or three usb keys that are able to unlock any of the company machines. These are only broken out when said user forgets his own passkey, and will override the passkey so a new one can be placed on said user.

    26. Re:Yeah... by risinganger · · Score: 1

      I'm not using TrueCrypt yet, but I've been looking into it for a potential future netbook purchase.

      It seems that you can have a secondary key (of sorts). You encrypt the drive and backup the header, which will be encrypted with your password. Then you can supply the machine to the user and have them create a new password. Then if they forget their password you can repair the header with your copy. You can find this in the TrueCrypt FAQ (search for the word enterprise)

    27. Re:Yeah... by rcharbon · · Score: 1

      Overhead while the system is logged in, in normal operation is minimal, nothing a user will notice. The noticable overhead comes at two points:
      1) When the computer boots, there's an appreciable increase in the time before the system is usable.
      2) When the system crashes and/or a critical piece of a file is not encrypted properly so the system doesn't boot, then the disk needs to be recovered (at best), restored from backup (you do have them, right?), or formatted and rebuilt with a loss of data.
      #2 doesn't happen often, but it does happen significantly more often than on a system without disk encryption.

    28. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously this will increase the overhead, but frankly, encryption should be used sparingly anyway.

      Huh? Key management overhead maybe. Not disk access overhead, which is negligible anyway. The way this is done is to use a two-layer encryption system. The drive itself is encrypted using a randomly generated master key that nobody ever bothers learning or storing off the drive. That master key is then encrypted with the user's chosen password (actually, a key derived from it), and stored in encrypted form in a drive header. Want two passwords? Store two coppies of the master key, one encrypted with each password. Unlocking the disk content then works by providing a password which is used to decrypt the master key, which is loaded into memory and used to decrypt reads and encrypt writes.

      In addition to making it possible for multiple people to have separate decryption keys for the drive, this also makes changing your password a lot easier. If you were using the password-derived key to encrypt the entire drive, changing a password would require decrypting the entire drive and re-encrypting it with the new key. For any decent sized drive, that would take unacceptably long - most consumer drives would take hours or days just because of their size and IO speed. The encryption might be fast, but the disks aren't.

      For some rare circumstances, there's yet one more benefit: you can effectively "wipe" the drive just by wiping the few bytes that are the disk header. Once all coppies of the master key are gone (they were stored encrypted in the header and never coppied anywhere, remember), the rest of the data space should be close to unrecoverable even if people do know the passwords.

    29. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only fault I have with Truecrypt is that there are a dozen ways to deploy it so you have to read and plan very carefully before deploying it on any level.

      Well if *I* was going to do anything that would affect all of the data on all the computers and data devices of an entire organization, believe you me, I'd be planning very carefully to an excruciating level of detail before proceeding.

      Measure twice, cut once. That's the saying when working with wood, which is a relatively inexpensive building material.

      When dealing with huge volumes of data that a business runs off of I'd expect measuring twice would be woefully inadequate.

    30. Re:Yeah... by Stultsinator · · Score: 1

      That's an excellent point. Although I think you're arguing against wholesale encryption, I'd stop a little short of that and say that an encryption policy is incomplete without a disaster recovery policy.

    31. Re:Yeah... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      It's a great concept until they take that thumbdrive home and "work" at home.

      management refuse to force the employees to follow IT directives, adding encryption to it will simply muddy the already dark brown water.

      They wouldn't pay for employee laptops so that "work at home" would be on corporate secure hardware. Which also means that the encryption solution would not be any of the working pay-for solutions.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    32. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not using TrueCrypt yet, but I've been looking into it for a potential future netbook purchase.

      It seems that you can have a secondary key (of sorts). You encrypt the drive and backup the header, which will be encrypted with your password. Then you can supply the machine to the user and have them create a new password. Then if they forget their password you can repair the header with your copy. You can find this in the TrueCrypt FAQ (search for the word enterprise)

      Which works great until they are out in the field and don't have the rescue disk. And even if they did, do you really think you can talk them through the process of recovery? Would you even want to try? Much better to use a product that supports remote password resets by a challenge-reponse setup.

    33. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my god no.

      In the end, no matter what we choose to encrypt a machine, it has to be easy for the user, both everyday AND when he needs to recover. We have almost 1000 machines encrypted with a mainstream product. If you're telling me that when the boss calls from Mexico and forgot his password, I need to MAIL him a USB key?

      If the user believes we can't get him up and running quickly, even when it is HE that messed up, they will write their password on their laptop.

    34. Re:Yeah... by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      If you forget your password then I will use my recovery key to change your password for you. This is of course why you wouldn't give them the tools to change the master key.

    35. Re:Yeah... by Extide · · Score: 1

      1.86Ghz Core 2 chip is PLENTY fast enough to keep up with those slow 5400 rpm HD's. the 1gb of ram and 5400rpm vs 7200rpm are slowing you down... Disk encryption probably wouldn't make much difference.

      --
      Technophile
  7. Have fun with management by jgtg32a · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Maybe its just the corporate environment that I'm in and please I would love to be wrong. But from what I can tell a good number of open sourced products just don't scale up to the enterprise level.

    There aren't any tools that manage them centrally and allow for compliance and auditing.

    1. Re:Have fun with management by cs02rm0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe its just the corporate environment that I'm in and please I would love to be wrong. But from what I can tell a good number of open sourced products just don't scale up to the enterprise level.

      There aren't any tools that manage them centrally and allow for compliance and auditing.


      Crap. Has anyone told Google yet? Best get them to switch to Windows quickly!

    2. Re:Have fun with management by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      In this case, the solution being pushed most often is installed on an individual disk to disk basis. There's no scale in that. Support is the same as any other application forced on the users.

      And I could easily list a good number of open source projects that scale just fine. Postgresql, postfix, sendmail, linux, gcc, apache, perl, php to name but a few.

    3. Re:Have fun with management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe its just the corporate environment that I'm in and please I would love to be wrong. But from what I can tell a good number of open sourced products just don't scale up to the enterprise level.

      There aren't any tools that manage them centrally and allow for compliance and auditing.

      Crap. Has anyone told Google yet? Best get them to switch to Windows quickly!

      In my last job I was somewhat the lead project guy for security/encrypting most things (laptops/etc...). We bought into PGP for the Whole Disk Encryption and got a PGP server up and running. I also looked at TrueCrypt and while, yes, it is really great for small(er) companies/individuals, there is no central storage point where you can recover keys or what have ya like PGP has.

      Granted I didn't really care for PGP's server that much but in general the parent has a point...some of the open source/free software is awesome/great but not great for a bigger/enterprise wide solution.

    4. Re:Have fun with management by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      I encrypt all my data on my work laptop using loop-aes.
      I simply type in a password when the machine mounts my data partition.
      All my executables are on an unencrypted partition, so I don't
      notice any performance degradation.

      I see no reason why this wouldn't be an acceptable solution
      at the "Enterprise Level" (whatever that means).

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
  8. Dont. by spikenerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Security" that gets in people's way is a security threat, because people will find a way to work around it, and be worse off because of it. Never try to lock down everything, or you'll have no control over what is compromised. Figure out what you really need to secure, and lock that down. Really. Trying to secure everything is a sure sign that someone lacks the knowledge to make security decisions.

    1. Re:Dont. by Plekto · · Score: 1

      http://www.itpro.co.uk/182871/staff-forced-to-bypass-security-controls

      The fact is that the people themselves will likely be forced to override it just to have some sense of normal workplace functionality. Or they'll do it because they don't want to be bothered.

      It's a lot like when the U.S. missile launch codes were all set to 00000000 to keep it simple:
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/17/usa.oliverburkeman1

      Evidently people also had the same problem - they hated the security so much that they disabled it.

      And then there's this gem from last year:

      http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/28/long-hacker-csc-tech-security-cx_ag_0229hacker.html

      Evidently old school attack vectors are far more likely to succeed at getting data. I'd get your managers to concentrate on physical security and internal checks instead of worrying about computer data. That doesn't mean you don't need some security, but the simple fact is that more than 90% of data theft are inside jobs and simple employee stupidity.

      But you should know this already. I'd be more worried about the competency of an employee posting on slashdot about how they need help from the Peanut Gallery here than whether my files are encrypted or not.

    2. Re:Dont. by ChrisMounce · · Score: 1

      I agree, but it's hard to guarantee security without encrypting everything. If you only encrypt part of the system (say, a partition on a USB thumb drive), data tends to get out (users copying files to their desktop for convenience, unencrypted virtual memory, applications saving temporary copies of documents, etc). And don't forget to keep the computer disconnected from the Internet! It's just Murphy's Law: what can go wrong, will go wrong.

      Some of that may be overkill, but it depends on what you're doing. I like this quote from the Diceware page: "Of course, if you are worried about an organization that can break a seven word passphrase in order to read your e-mail, there are a number of other issues you should be concerned with -- such as how well you pay the team of armed guards that are protecting your computer 24 hours a day."

      Perfect security is really hard to obtain if there's more than one or two people keeping a secret. The compromise route is usually the most pragmatic: (1) encrypt to the point where if you encrypted anything else, users couldn't use the system; (2) tell your users what is and what is not encrypted; and (3) hold users accountable.

      Just a couple of cents.

    3. Re:Dont. by Rageon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I work in a state courthouse. Here, Windows is set up force new passwords every so often and of ridiculous complexity (numbers + letters + symbols + sanskrit, or something of that nature). So what we have is a situation where 50% of the computers here have little post-it on them with the user's passwords. It does far more harm than good.

    4. Re:Dont. by dstar · · Score: 1

      I work in a state courthouse. Here, Windows is set up force new passwords every so often and of ridiculous complexity (numbers + letters + symbols + sanskrit, or something of that nature). So what we have is a situation where 50% of the computers here have little post-it on them with the user's passwords. It does far more harm than good.

      There's a fix for that, one that more than one company I've worked for used. The security staff would check cubes at random for passwords, confidential material that wasn't locked up, etc. The first time they found something like that, they left a little note on your desk detailing the violation, with a pointer to the security policies.

      I assume that the second or third times management was involved, but I never heard of anyone reaching that point.

    5. Re:Dont. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately encryption won't help you on the field of remote attack as the operating system will open the files as readable files and not an encrypted one.

      It will also won't help you on e-mail attachment as this once again will transmit unencrypted files. Also don't forget every method of files transfer and such IE ftp.

      So for encryption to work properly you need to disconnect from any hostile network as they can compromises service and gain access to your files already decrypted by the os, you also need to ban any portable disk, key, floppy and such and the most important to make sure no one get your data disconnect any printers and ban camera, we never know when a user will be taking pictures of your screen.

    6. Re:Dont. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      encrypt everything, all hard drives, including desktops, laptops, external hard drives, USB flash drives, etc

      Alarm bells should be going off here: It sounds like some high-level management decision along the lines of "this sounds cool, let's do that" without really understanding the details. Like Bruce Schneier says (the paraphrase is on the /. frontpage right now), you can't buy security.

      The premise of "encrypting absolutely everything" as a buy-and-forget mechanism doesn't work because the greatest weakness of any system is the user. Security starts as a mindset and a process: Identify sensitive data, find out who has access to it and who shouldn't, where it is taken or transmitted.

      No matter how strong your encryption is, someone must have the password to be able to work on the data, and that guy will still be keeping his password taped to his desk.

  9. password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Encryption is easy. Password distribution and protection is hard.

  10. Key Management by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have you worked out a complete plan for key management for all these encrypted devices?

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Key Management by oobayly · · Score: 0

      Yup, this is the most important part. I was reading an article on the Register entitled "Users: The weakest link in laptop security":
      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/09/laptop_security_weakest_link/

      I think this comment sums it up:
      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/09/laptop_security_weakest_link/comments/#c_423637

      What's the point of nigh-on impossible to crack encryption when the user has as good as written all the credentials on the outside of the computer.

      Personally, I prefer the idea of encrypting volumes on which I store important data. Other stuff that isn't sensitive can be dumped anywhere else (within the bounds of common sense of course)

    2. Re:Key Management by nizo · · Score: 1

      Magic marker and a bunch of sticky notes?

      (Yes, I am kidding. Unless you use edible ink/sticky notes.)

    3. Re:Key Management by starglider29a · · Score: 4, Funny

      An elaborate system of Post It Notes (All ROT13'd)

    4. Re:Key Management by sakdoctor · · Score: 1

      I keep my keys on a USB disk.
      I swallow the disk and wait for it to come out the other end. Rinse (literally) and repeat.

    5. Re:Key Management by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      This was the hardest part to overcome in our truecrypt implementation. I ended up writing a database application that stored the truecrypt recover iso's along with the password associated with the iso.

      If someone forgets their password of the headers get corrupted, we can just burn off the iso, pop it in and use the password.

      Of course now you have to secure that database. Which is another task entirely.

    6. Re:Key Management by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      ROT13 won't be good enough, try ROT26.

    7. Re:Key Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All ROT13'd

      You'd better do that twice, just to be sure.

    8. Re:Key Management by paulhar · · Score: 1

      Given how quickly laptops get destroyed by viri, spyware, user mis-action etc, why bother with key management. Just have automated backups and in the event of a key loss just perform a restore.

  11. Pointsec by religious+freak · · Score: 1, Informative

    Open source? Nope. But Pointsec is an impressive product. I've been using it for years and have noticed zero performance impact.

    --
    If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
    1. Re:Pointsec by plierhead · · Score: 1

      Truecrypt has worked well for me on my laptop for a long time - which runs Vista and crashes on a weekly or more basis, so far never causing data loss on the Trucrypt drive. For office applications at least there is no noticeable performance hit.

      --

      [x] auto-moderate all posts by this user as insightful

    2. Re:Pointsec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using it here at my office on all mobile machines. The machines are usable even as the disk is being encrypted. I can use my personal flash drives with no issue and there is no in-use overhead that I experience; been using this device since before we introduced Pointsec. The only change was the Pointsec domain login during boot.

    3. Re:Pointsec by TyIzaeL · · Score: 1

      I've had no problems with TrueCrypt on Vista. However, the performance hit is somewhat noticeable.

      This is on an Eee PC 1000H though.

    4. Re:Pointsec by rockbottoms · · Score: 1

      I've noticed copying data to/from the encrypted volume takes a little longer than say copying from one local drive to another, or local to USB 2.0. I wasn't worried because I won't have to do it that often. I've also never tried to backup a TrueCrypt "File". Does it back up the entire file each time it changes, or would it back up only the changes made to the file?

    5. Re:Pointsec by plierhead · · Score: 1

      For safety what I do is back up the individual files within the encrypted volume rather than the entire truecrypt file itself. I use rsync, takes only a few minutes.

      --

      [x] auto-moderate all posts by this user as insightful

    6. Re:Pointsec by jfenwick · · Score: 1

      My company made a policy to use Pointsec for full disc encryption on all Windows computers. When this happened, operations that took seconds quickly increased to taking minutes. My solution: I switched to a Mac.

  12. Truecrypt ? Maybe by slashdotlurker · · Score: 1

    Its cross platform. But, it does not support whole disk encryption for Linux or Mac.

  13. don't encrypt system files by two+basket+skinner · · Score: 2, Informative

    unless of course your requirements call for it. But your systems will run very slow if every time they have to boot they have to go thru the decrypt process. you should only need to encrypt your users' data. Hopefully, system data and user data are, at least, in different folders of the filesystem.

    1. Re:don't encrypt system files by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised. Modern CPUs can decrypt a file as fast as the disk can retrieve it. Even encrypting your swap imposes negligible performance penalties.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:don't encrypt system files by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      bullshit. i used to have my hard drive completely encrypted with safeguard easy. the speed penalty was nearly non-existent.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  14. You can't encrypt everything by fatp · · Score: 0

    At least the decryptor could not be encrypted

  15. Key Management? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's your key management strategy?

    1. Re:Key Management? by stnls_steel_mouse · · Score: 1

      The most important question so far!
      In an enterprise situation, you have to have multiple sets of keys so a single person can't turn their devices into bricks by forgetting their passwords. There are lots of scenario's around this: Lock a user out of their ability to decrypt due to termination, but still allow admin access to resources.

    2. Re:Key Management? by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Funny

      To empower individuals to utilize synergistic approaches to achieve goals and exceed expectations. :)

    3. Re:Key Management? by SebaSOFT · · Score: 2, Funny

      All keys are '12345'

    4. Re:Key Management? by pyro_peter_911 · · Score: 1

      To empower individuals to utilize synergistic approaches to achieve goals and exceed expectations. :)

      ...on the Internet!

      Peter

    5. Re:Key Management? by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Funny

      *patents*

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    6. Re:Key Management? by bytethese · · Score: 1

      That's the same combination I have on my luggage!

    7. Re:Key Management? by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      over wireless!

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  16. TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You want TrueCrypt.

    It's probably better than a hardware solution. They keep screwing up and snake-oiling the hardware ones, but you can audit TrueCrypt (and people have), and pre-boot authenticated system drive encryption is pretty much what you want.

    As for speed... I don't know what you're worried about. AES-256-XTS (best-in-breed, the new standard, which TrueCrypt pioneered and uses) runs at over 150MB/sec in benchmark, and that's on one core. Your hard disk very probably doesn't run that fast.

    All our machines are encrypted using similar means, and we've never experienced any problems with performance.

    PGP's Whole Disk Encryption isn't as good - that kept stalling in kernel mode under XP, causing hiccups on lots of disk accesses; and eventually the driver bluescreened on every boot and there was absolutely no way we could get it back, which lost us terabytes of data... but TrueCrypt has caused us no such problems, and costs nothing. (If it worked with the leftover eTokens from our earlier PGP deployment, it'd be perfect.)

    1. Re:TrueCrypt by timeOday · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My problem with TrueCrypt - and all software solutions - is how do they handle suspending a laptop to RAM? Apparently the keys are not overwritten in RAM until you unmount the partition, which means closing down all applications that access the sensitive data. I couldn't live with that. Instead the apps should be suspended, the encryption keys overwritten, and the apps not resumed until after the user inputs the password upon resume.

    2. Re:TrueCrypt by Panaflex · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nobody deals with that, for the moment. I don't think the hardware solutions deal with that for every case, either.

      I've heard of some possible solutions being thrown out there - including a CPU "disabled cache"-type software solutions - but there's nothing being sold yet.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    3. Re:TrueCrypt by INT_QRK · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When you say people have audited, has it been been tested and assigned an Evaluated Assurance Level (EAL) under the Common Criteria (ISO 15408)? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I'm asking because I'm wondering whether this might satisfy a certain proposed policy criteria that may rear its ugly head in the future...

    4. Re:TrueCrypt by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So how does TrueCrypt handle laptop suspend? Being a software solution, it wouldn't even necessarily know the laptop had been suspended, correct? It might seem a minor point, but when/if I lose a laptop, there's a strong probability it will be suspended to RAM at the time. Is the common approach simply to pop up a password-protected screensaver?

    5. Re:TrueCrypt by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      In practice the risks can be minimized by using additional virtual encrypted volumes (in files) on the encrypted disk itself which have their keys in RAM scrambled upon dismount by TrueCrypt. Also, the contents of any volatile memory, such as RAM, will have completely dissipated within at most a couple of minutes after shutdown and loss of power. So boot into your secure hidden OS, do whatever work you were going to do, and then shutdown for a while before booting back into the public OS (which is also encrypted). TrueCrypt renders successful attacks very difficult to execute in practice even though they remain theoretically possible which is certainly no worse than any other present competing alternative (hardware OR software).

    6. Re:TrueCrypt by phorm · · Score: 1

      When you return from suspend-to-RAM, require the user login to get back to his/her desktop?

      If it's just in RAM, it's not going anywhere until the password is either entered or somehow guessed.

    7. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hasn't seen solution like that nowhere. You can however give up suspending to ram, and use suspending to encrypted swap disk partition.

    8. Re:TrueCrypt by rduke15 · · Score: 4, Informative

      TrueCrypt has several options. The way I have it configured, the TC volume is automatically unmounted when I suspend, and I need to re-mount it when the notebook wakes back.

      I understand the password is not in RAM anymore after a suspend. These are the options I use:

      "SaveVolumeHistory" = 0
      "CachePasswords" = 0
      "WipePasswordCacheOnExit" = 1
      "WipeCacheOnAutoDismount" = 1
      "StartOnLogon" = 0
      "MountDevicesOnLogon" = 0
      "MountFavoritesOnLogon" = 0
      "DismountOnLogOff" = 1
      "DismountOnPowerSaving" = 1
      "DismountOnScreenSaver" = 0
      "ForceAutoDismount" = 1

    9. Re:TrueCrypt by root777 · · Score: 2, Informative

      When you don't need TrueCrypt or for that matter any whole disk encryption software

      A Crypto nerd's imagination
      Person1: His laptop's encrypted. Let's build a million dollar cluster to crack it
      Person2: No Good! Its 4096 bit RSA!
      Person1: Blast! Our evil plan is foiled!

      What would actually happen:
      Person1: His Laptop's encrypted. Drug him and hit him with this $5 wrench until he tells us the password
      Person2: Got it

      Source: http://xkcd.com/538/

    10. Re:TrueCrypt by medelliadegray · · Score: 1

      If i were your employer, I'd fire your ars for not backing up "terabytes of data" before attempting to encrypt it.

      --
      Troll, Troll, go away and flame again some other day
    11. Re:TrueCrypt by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is the common approach simply to pop up a password-protected screensaver?

      You should be doing that anyway. Defence in depth and all that.

      Everyone seems to hail TrueCrypt (or any other full disk encryption) as the second coming but, like any other security mechanism, it should not be your only. So yes, pop up a password-protected screen saver - a cooler feature would be if TrueCrypt "hooked" into said screen saver and destroyed keys/dismounted volumes on two or three false passwords.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    12. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The latest version of TrueCrypt works well with eToken Pro 64s, but I'm not sure about earlier models.

      PGP and TrueCrypt use hardware tokens in different ways. TrueCrypt stores the keyfile on the token's filesystem, then retrieves the keyfile and uses that to help decrypt the volume key. PGP uses the decryption functionality of the smartcard to decrypt the master volume key.

      For businesses who have needs (by law and contracts) to be able to recover data if a password is lost, PGP is arguably the better solution. This can be done by saving volume headers with TrueCrypt, but on an enterprise level, PGP's server is far better, because it can be used to recover passwords (via a challenge/response system) in the field. It can also use ADKs (additional decryption keys) for lawful access to E-mail should an employee leave.

      I personally use both PGP and TrueCrypt. Both are excellent security tools. I use PGP for archiving data in my TC volumes, and because both work with my eTokens, bruite force password guessing is not an issue.

      On OS X, for whole disk encryption that protects the complete OS (as opposed to volumes), PGP is pretty much the only game in town unless you buy an enterprise solution.

    13. Re:TrueCrypt by mlts · · Score: 1

      On Windows, one can get this functionality, but it requires Active Directory and smart cards (Aladdin eTokens, a CAC + reader, etc.) Almost all smart cards will lock and prevent access after a number of bad attempts (usually 3-5). Other cards will add an exponentially lengthening delay.

    14. Re:TrueCrypt by garutnivore · · Score: 1

      You want TrueCrypt.

      You want TrueCrypt to be part of your toolbox but you may not want to have TrueCrypt as your only tool. I use dm-crypt to encrypt my Linux partitions because relying on TrueCrypt would just be a nightmare configuration-wise.

      As for speed... I don't know what you're worried about. AES-256-XTS (best-in-breed, the new standard, which TrueCrypt pioneered and uses) runs at over 150MB/sec in benchmark, and that's on one core. Your hard disk very probably doesn't run that fast.

      Huh? TrueCrypt is software. Hence whatever benchmarks you will quote is dependent on what hardware it is run. So "one core" of which processor?

      With Ubuntu 8.10, I use both TrueCrypt and dm-crypt and in both cases the delays were initially noticeable. My advice for whole-disk encryption is to maximize the RAM. I went from 2GB without encryption to 2GB with encryption. Responsiveness suffered noticeably. I upgraded to 4GB and it made a world of difference.

    15. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      you can audit TrueCrypt, but nobody has
      the closest is people reading the doco on how they chain their cyphers and saying whether their implementation seems correct (or not)
      nobody has done a full audit and published the results.

      discussion of such issues is also discouraged in the TrueCrypt forums, your posts are deleted by admin and username will be banned without warning (you suddenly get 'forum is down' msgs until you clear your cookies of your username). While the admin != authors, the attitude in the forums is that no criticism of TrueCrypt is allowed.

    16. Re:TrueCrypt by Maxmin · · Score: 1

      This is all well and good, Truecrypt that is, for individual desktop solutions, but the OP said-

      "My institution has thousands of computers..."

      For thousands of computers, the OP should be checking out encrypted SAN systems. In her/his shoes, I would research the fairly vast SAN marketplace, learn your specs, then put out an RFP. A decent SAN installation buys you things that Truecrypt doesn't address, like centralization, redundancy (RAID), backups (performed globally), rapid failover. Or, if you're ambitious and know Linux, OP, you could build your own fileserver farm, running Truecrypt.

      Truecrypt is fine for individualized solutions, and most definitely for portables, but for the stays-in-place part of the institution-of-thousands-of-computers, a shared SAN system is the way to go. I mean, imagine having to admin Truecrypt, individually, on thousands of desktop computers... No way.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
    17. Re:TrueCrypt by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, Pointsec and one other solution (maybe McAfee?) will encrypt the hibernation file and revert back to pre-boot authentication when the laptop lid opens. The downside is that you need to disable sleep/suspend mode.

      How you operate depends on your risk profile.

      Are you concerned about someone actually robbing an employee for the purpose of obtaining data? Is the impact of data compromise a matter of life and death? In those cases, you need to encrypt the hibernation file and disable sleep.

      Or are you more concerned about casual theft or loss where a thief is more interested in the laptop hardware? If that is the case, windows-integrated login and sleep mode may be ok -- if you implement other mitigating features such as a firewall and strong password policy.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    18. Re:TrueCrypt by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are misunderstanding the problem. Defending data in a datacenter is a completely different problem that data-at-rest encryption really doesn't help you with.

      In most states, whenever a client computer could contain personally-identifying data, data breaches must be exposed to any potential victim and the general public.

      In some cases, that includes things like browser caches, and other temporary files. So most financial institutions and government agencies opt to encrypt all mobile devices. Some law enforcement agencies encrypt desktop computers as well.

      Encryption is very easy to do. Key management is hard. Truecrypt is great for an individual user, but falls down when you have to manage a non-trivial number of clients.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    19. Re:TrueCrypt by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      I use truecrypt on external drives under Linux, Windows and OS X. In most cases I cant tell the volume is encrypted in performance terms, but I guess with slow flash drives it doesn't really matter that much.

      The biggest issue from a network admins point of view is managing the encryption keys and passwords for 1000+ users. Truecrypt does not address this at all.
      We use Checkpoint Pointsec for corporate use, but lots of problems with users forgetting the passwords and locking themselves out completely. They have to call our helpdesk to get a one time token code to unlock. OK during the day, but expensive after hours.

    20. Re:TrueCrypt by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What regulators are looking for is an encryption solution whose algorithms have been certified to conform to FIPS 140-2. In general, you should only deploy encryption products in modes that are FIPS 140-2 certified.

      The "Common Criteria" EAL levels are more of a measure of the overall quality of a product's security implementation. Typically a full-disk encryption app is certified at EAL level 3 or 4.

      If you're using EAL as a decision making point, make sure that you understand how the assurance level was implemented. You may find that only specific configurations meet EAL 4 requirements, so a product at level for may not be any better than a level 3 product in your situation.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    21. Re:TrueCrypt by imrehg · · Score: 1, Insightful

      a cooler feature would be if TrueCrypt "hooked" into said screen saver and destroyed keys/dismounted volumes on two or three false passwords.

      Sounds like a great idea? noooot.... How easy it would be to wreak havoc e.g. in an office fitted out with self-destroy screensavers. You hate the guts of that guy down in Cubicle #3? When he leaves for a minute, just type in some junk into his screensaver and watch him enjoy all his data being deleted... Well, until it is your time to be treated the same way.... How about limiting the speed of tries (like 1/s) and do self destruct if there are enough tries for a day or a week (which still shouldn't break you if you have a good password). In many scenarios losing the data is just as bad as someone else getting it. Don't have to give your enemies advantages with such "3tries and you're out"

    22. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd suggest that if you've gone to the trouble of using full disk encryption on -everything- you would disable the ability for staff/clients to suspend to RAM, thus negating this one 'flaw' with truecrypt, no?

    23. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "Common Criteria" EAL levels are more of a measure of the overall quality of a product's security implementation. Typically a full-disk encryption app is certified at EAL level 3 or 4.

      OK, but the question was "Is TrueCrypt certified to an EAL level?"

    24. Re:TrueCrypt by Lt.Hawkins · · Score: 2, Informative

      He means overwrite the keys in memory, not trash the hard drive. So that a reboot will be necessary, which will then prompt for the password. It really should be done.

      Truecrypt can dismount regular drives on screensaver launch. I don't think it can dismount the system drive though.

      --
      -- My Sig is a P228.
    25. Re:TrueCrypt by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In case of a lost laptop with encryption there is something else to worry about: the strength of your passwords and the resilience against brute-forcing it.

      Rate limiters don't work. Destroy after xxx passwords also not. The attacker has the source of TrueCrypt just like you, and thus can remove that kind of limits and brute-force your password. It's almost certainly easier than brute-forcing your encryption key directly. I don't think your password is as long as your encryption key is.

      Losing your laptop with your password-protected keys on it is a worse issue than just losing your encrypted data without losing the keys with it. This is an issue I have never seen pop up in discussions on /. or elsewhere, it may be an overlooked weakness.

    26. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not totally a work around, but you could just set the volumes to dismount at the same interval as the screensaver.

    27. Re:TrueCrypt by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      I used to configure truecrypt to unmount partitions when I put on the screensaver (or the "lock computer" feature) before suspending the laptop. More often than not, it just suspended the applications. Upon resume I remounted the disks and the applications resumed smoothly.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    28. Re:TrueCrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This ignores one important thing. Hidden partitions.
      Just give Mr Thug with $5 wrench the password to the fake one.

    29. Re:TrueCrypt by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Actually you're right...FIPS 140-2 part was already answered since I AES 256 was stated as one of the implementing algorithms to choose from; however, I appreciate duffbeer's tutorial...

    30. Re:TrueCrypt by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I haven't used this but interested, yet I do hibernate a lot, so does this mean I would have problems with TrueCrypt, bugging???

    31. Re:TrueCrypt by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      Proceed with caution!

      Just because you're using AES-256 doesn't mean that you are using a FIPS 140-2 certified implementation! In fact, according to TrueCrypt's documentation, they do not have such a certification. http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=compliance-with-standards

      The means that if you are encrypting data for the purposes of meeting a state or federal regulatory requirement, Truecrypt may not be sufficient. I know that the current interpretation of the NY Security Breach Notification law is that if it isn't FIPS 140-2 certified, it isn't encrypted.

      You (I mean the general "you") need to be careful and seriously analyze who you trust your data with. Nobody knows who is behind TrueCrypt and they have a reputation for stifling criticism and dissent. That makes me leery, as even subtle flaws in an encryption system can render the system useless.

      I would be hesitant to protect information for which I have a fiduciary responsibility in their hands.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    32. Re:TrueCrypt by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Good comments, and excellent advice.

    33. Re:TrueCrypt by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      It knows it's suspended, and there's an option to dismount automatically at suspend.

      I'd strongly recommend it. Save and close all files that you're working on, and dismount the encrypted volume.

      After all, it doesn't really do you any good to have your drive encrypted if your files are open and in RAM, unencrypted, when your laptop is stolen.

      And wasn't there an attack a while back where if you knew some of the contents of an encrypted drive, you could figure out the key much easier? If I remember rightly, it was using a jpeg, or something like that.

      So again, if your files are open when your laptop goes missing, they could potentially get your encryption key, making all your security useless.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    34. Re:TrueCrypt by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No data is lost, he just has to log in again. Big deal. How is that anymore annoying than someone walking to someone else's PC and logging them out, or shutting the computer off?

      And whether or not data is lost, if this sort of thing is happening if your office, I think there are worse problems. I mean, you might as well say "What if I walk down to Cubicle #3, and throw his computer out the window?" Is that a hardware flaw?

    35. Re:TrueCrypt by ghettodev · · Score: 1

      The attacker has the source of TrueCrypt just like you, and thus can remove that kind of limits and brute-force your password.

      The crackers may be able to alter the truecrypt source on their own machines but I don't see how you are proposing they can alter the code on an already encrypted volume.

    36. Re:TrueCrypt by ghettodev · · Score: 1

      Funny but the general idea behind encryption in the workplace is to guard against the theft of a laptop, not the theft of a laptop and an employee.

    37. Re:TrueCrypt by Maxmin · · Score: 1

      You are misunderstanding the problem.

      Not at all. There are multiple problems and choices faced by the poster's organization, it shouldn't simply be "Do we encrypt all data on all local and shared hard drives?"

      First question is, whether the poster is indeed the one responsible for encrypting data on the thousands of computers. The IT organization for such a large institution doesn't usually rely on a solo admin to tackle such a huge problem.

      Defending data in a datacenter is a completely different problem that data-at-rest encryption really doesn't help you with.

      Usually there's overlap ... large institutions don't always have their data needs well-planned, particularly if there's a lot of ad-hoc data laying around, such being the case with lots of individual computers, usually.

      Therefore, it's an excellent opportunity to *plan* a migration towards shared and non-shared encrypted data storage. That's what appears to be lacking here... it's the "Thousands of computers" with the "Let's go make thousands of individual Truecrypt installations" - truly an admin's nightmare.

      Therefore, I wonder what the OP's role in this is - queen-bee, questionable; worker-bee, likely.

      --
      O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
    38. Re:TrueCrypt by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      TrueCrypt must be running to do a decryption. This binary therefore must be available in unencrypted form, and thus can be replaced.

    39. Re:TrueCrypt by jabelli · · Score: 1

      TrueCrypt on Windows already has a dismount-on-screensaver-launch feature, as well as timed, logoff, and power-save-mode.

    40. Re:TrueCrypt by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I would expect anyone that needs a full system encryption to have backups. In my case, I have a encrypted folder that syncs with my server whenever I have Internet access, so if I loose my laptop, it can safely erase itself.

  17. TrueCrypt and Mac by Danathar · · Score: 3, Informative

    TrueCrypt does not support Pre-boot full disk encryption on the Mac. Only product I know of that does that right now is PGP Whole disk (latest version).

    1. Re:TrueCrypt and Mac by macshome · · Score: 1

      PointSec and WinMagic also support pre-boot on the Mac. WinMagic also supports booting from the Segate hardware encryption drives on a Mac.

    2. Re:TrueCrypt and Mac by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      That's kind of suprising.. Maybe I'm misinformed but I would think the EFI would allow a module as an entry point to boot to an encrypted volume.

    3. Re:TrueCrypt and Mac by bard · · Score: 1

      There's also CheckPoint Full Disk Encryption for Mac... Which happens to have been working on Mac longer than PGP's version. :)

      On a related note, I find it interesting that the FDE product (CheckPoint Full Disk Encryption, formerly Pointsec for PC) which has one of the largest if the not the largest installed base in the world is never mentioned in any of these threads here on Slashdot.

      (And before you ask, yes, I work for CheckPoint on the FDE product).

  18. They probably have to by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 2, Informative

    I see a lot of comments here suggesting that this is a bad idea, and to a certain extent it is, but chances are the institution has no say in this. After the wave of laptop thefts from government institutions, the office of inspector general requires all laptops (and portable media) be encrypted. A lot of agencies have stalled on this one. I've been involved in supporting laptops that are encrypted and go out to remote field cables (as remote as it gets). It's pain, but if you have to do it, TrueCrypt is not the way to go. You need something that ties into AD and something that can manage thousands of users. PGP Desktop.

    --

    Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
  19. Just don't do it. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I see this all the time and it always makes me cringe.

    If you treat all data the same, it is impossible to convince users to treat any data differently from any other, and they will all default to "Sloppy", and you won't care because you'll be certain that the encryption is going to save your ass.

    It is a much much better idea to have a very distinct line between secure and insecure, so that people have that distinction hammered into their heads every time they touch secure data. Otherwise, someone is going to get sloppy with their private key, and you're going to get exploited and never see it coming.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  20. Truecrypt, your our only hope by Phoenixhawk · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was screaming PGP until I got to the Open source part, removing funding from the equation Truecrypt is the only thing that will really do what your asking for. Its not bad & I like it, but its not PGP. And if you have been using something since the BBS days, your really not likely to change now so I am bias towards it. But from my limited (3 month) run with Truecrypt I had no problems and it was very stable, and little to no real performance difference from PGP's.

  21. Here we use PGP Desktop by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Full Disk Encryption and of course encrypting our USB keys, backup DVDs, etc. Central key management, recovery, pretty well thought out.

    I dunno if the 'free' version does all this. It's not as clever as TruCrypt, but it works.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  22. Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That comic has been making the rounds. It's cute, but not applicable.

    If the submitter is in an organization with thousands of machines, the notion that any user will be required to keep their password confidential in the face of torture is laughable. That's for specially trained operatives, soldiers, and other assorted heroes. Those of us in the normal world will probably adopt a more rationale perspective. If someone were crazy enough to steal one of our laptops, simultaneously snatch the user, and threaten them with torture, our folks know to give up all passwords, immediately. We're only required to keep data confidential where it is reasonable to do so. When floods sweep away your car, wave goodbye to your laptop in the trunk. When someone threatens you physically, tell 'em what they want to hear.

    Our people are more important than our data. Our people are more important than the publics data. If we lose a chunk of data, we have ways to reconstruct what was lost and mitigate damage. If we lose an employee, there is no way to achieve a good outcome.

    Reasonable?

    1. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely. Couldn't have said it better myself. Bruce Schneier would be proud.

    2. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends. If your data is going to put someone (or lots of people) in physical danger then it's not so clear cut. You would be surprised at how much data qualifies as physically dangerous even at normal companies.

      Or consider the fact that incriminating data could be considered physically harmful as well.

    3. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you.

      Many more years ago than I'd care to discuss, I used to pull graveyards at the local 7-11. Corporate and Franchise policy back then was, that if you were robbed, you gave up the entire store, on the theory that you were more valuable than the cash or store contents.

      I know it was probably a CYA to avoid lawsuits from clerks, but it was still a sensible and sane policy.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    4. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by peacefinder · · Score: 1

      I think the comic is applicable for the very reasons you state. That is, no one's going to bother brute-forcing the encryption when they have access to the user; given a sufficiently motivated attacker, brute force would simply be applied to the user instead of to the hardware. The point isn't that your users need to be taught to keep their passwords confidential under torture, but simply that beyond a certain level better encryption is moot.

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    5. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Informative

      The point of the comic is that there's no *practical* difference between, say, 128-bit encryption and 4096-bit encryption because it is, and always will be, easier to just obtain the password somehow than to crack the encryption.

      Meanwhile, crypto-nerds go around scoffing at your primitive WPA wifi encryption and go on to introduce 47 new layers of encryption, all bigger and better than the last, wasting tons of time and money in the process.

      That message still applies, despite everything in your post.

    6. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by gnick · · Score: 1

      Many more years ago than I'd care to discuss, I used to pull graveyards at the local 7-11. Corporate and Franchise policy back then was, that if you were robbed, you gave up the entire store, on the theory that you were more valuable than the cash or store contents.

      We were told the same thing when we got our employment training at Allsup's - But you're right, I think it was a lawsuit dodge. There was an unspoken rule that anyone who managed to stop a shoplifter was promoted within a few weeks. And the manager who had the box of blank money orders and the printer stolen was demoted back to regular clerk level just a couple of weeks later (of course, from unrelated performance issues - Yeah right...)

      That said, when I got robbed on my graveyard shift, I immediately gave up the register (just under $75), got the robber a bag, and even offered them a burrito before they left. (The really offensive part was when the cops asked me if I'd done it. There was ~$2k in the drop safe that could be removed with the tools we sold and $10k+ in the floor safe that I could probably break into after a little bit of work. Sure, question my integrity, but not my intelligence...)

      Back on-topic, our company rolled out Pointsec to encrypt all of our laptops and switched to IronKeys to make sure that our USB sticks are secure. But if threatened, we've been instructed to turn over everything - Personal info, company-sensitive, classified nuclear weapons secrets - Everything.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    7. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by SpottedKuh · · Score: 5, Informative

      The point of the comic is that there's no *practical* difference between, say, 128-bit encryption and 4096-bit encryption [...]

      There's a huge difference. When you see numbers like "128-bit," you're dealing with a symmetric encryption algorithm (e.g., AES). When you see numbers like "4096-bit," you're dealing with an asymmetric algorithm (e.g., RSA).

      See the NIST Recommendation for Key Management (PDF), page 63. For example, to get RSA that is "equivalently" secure (for some predicted meaning of equivalent) to AES-128, you need a 3072-bit key. The table is explained on page 62.

      As an aside, the comparably small key sizes that asymmetric elliptic curve cryptograph (ECC) can use, illustrated on page 63, are one of the reasons that ECC is so valuable.

    8. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by operagost · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, many thieves are bloodthirsty morons who kill the clerk anyway.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    9. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by minor_deity · · Score: 1

      Except that weak encryption IS easier to break then finding out the password. Especially when you are capuring wireless packets in a crowded environment where you don't know who is doing the sending**.

      In those cases it is much easier to break the relatively weak encryption used almost everywhere then try and seek out the person who's sending packets to 10.145.23.30.

      **Not that anyone would ever do such things...

    10. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      It depends. The engineering value of a person's life is only a couple million dollars. If your confidential information is really valuable (like if it were financial info for millions of customers or something) then it could be worth more than the employee.

      That doesn't mean the employee in question would see it that way, of course!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    11. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, you have not done business with the Russian software industry.

    12. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back on-topic, our company rolled out Pointsec to encrypt all of our laptops and switched to IronKeys to make sure that our USB sticks are secure. But if threatened, we've been instructed to turn over everything - Personal info, company-sensitive, classified nuclear weapons secrets - Everything.

      I'll get you my pretty -- and your little dog too!

      Now that you've been threatened, please leave those nuclear weapons secrets here on /. as a reply to this post. Thanks.

      Osama

    13. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by blind+monkey+3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It would never work anyway, all our employees are fitted with a hollow tooth full of cyanide to cover such contingencies.

      P.S. Just lost Joe from HR... he had an accident while eating a brazil nut.

      --
      BM3
    14. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by narooze · · Score: 1

      ... the notion that any user will be required to keep their password confidential in the face of torture is laughable. That's for Jack Bauer.

      There. Fixed it for you.

    15. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by gnick · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK! OK! Just leave the dog out of it!

      The big secret, I mean the one they really keep under wraps to try to keep the nuclear genie in the bottle... Is that plutonium and uranium are delicious. Really, really good - Here in Los Alamos we sprinkle highly enriched uranium on our corn-flakes in the morning - It's a great wake-me-up. Devouring large quantities of uranium (even un-enriched) and then 'processing' it internally is how the slugs are manufactured for gun-type weapons (the enrichment is done in the small intestine). Making an implosion weapon necessitates a circus elephant.

      So, now that you know, feel free to go improvise a couple of nukes, just leave the dog alone!

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    16. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Wow... wooooooosh. Did you even read my post? Past the first sentence?

    17. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by 2short · · Score: 1

      When someone says "The point of the comic is..." you might want to read the comic to understand the point being made.

    18. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by pla · · Score: 1

      See the NIST Recommendation for Key Management (PDF), page 63.

      *Whooooosh!*

      Very good, informative post - But you still missed the point that social engineering (whether flirting or torture or looking under the user's keyboard for their post-it note full of passwords) takes less time than brute forcing even a low-quality cryptosystem.

      No "practical" difference exists, because "in practice", an attacker will reach for the blowtorch before they bother with any cracking tools.

    19. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting...I will test this on your dog.

    20. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the notion that any user will be required to keep their password confidential in the face of torture is laughable

      Why? Torture doesn't work. Ask any lefty peacenik.

    21. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to the aforementioned points, I'd like to illustrate its much more advantageous to steal something without someone knowing it. Obviously data is one of the few things in the world for which this can be done. There are many situations where having someones data when they know there has been a beach would be totally useless, but if they continue thinking their data is secure when it really isn't you have a huge advantage. Thus, the wrench scenario is only slightly realistic.

    22. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      takes less time than brute forcing even a low-quality cryptosystem.
      That depends on just HOW crap the system is. It is very easy to make small design errors that reduce the security of the system to a level where brute force attacks are feasible.

      DSA for example has a nasty flaw where if you generate even one signature using a flawed random number generator anyone with a copy of that signature can get your key.

      No "practical" difference exists, because "in practice", an attacker will reach for the blowtorch before they bother with any cracking tools.
      Some attackers might but that approach has problems of it's own. For starters if you get caught you will probablly be in far worse shit than if you simply worked on cracking the crypto. You probablly also have a much higher chance of getting caught.

      another reason for worrying about the strength of encryption is that you have to consider the data's value down the line. Sure the encryption may be impractical to crack now but what will a few decades of moores law do to it. Some information is still valuable to an attacker after that time.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    23. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info, Pal. I only wished I'd have known that eariler. Busted knee caps and jaw later, I wished I hadn't given Anonymous Coward's real name. Its always the same person right?!

    24. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point of what this encryption is supposed to accomplish. Protecting data against a foe with the ability to place you under duress for access to data isn't a use case that the technology addresses.

      99% of laptops do not have data worth killing for. Data is lost by opportunistic thieves or lost. If you have a high risk of being in the 1% with super-valuable data, you need to employ a layered defense in order to keep it secure.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    25. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by ticklemeozmo · · Score: 1

      >> Meanwhile, crypto-nerds go around scoffing at your primitive WPA wifi encryption
      >> and go on to introduce 47 new layers of encryption, all bigger and better than the last,
      >> wasting tons of time and money in the process.

      Being a nerd, nothing we go overboard on is a waste of time or money.  The value of our project is either proving to ourselves we did it, or gaining practical knowledge we can use elsewhere, like our jobs, where we get paid to do it.

      --
      When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
    26. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      Hah! We know you're lying because HR employees do not possess any vitally important information. (Or any useful information, come to that.)

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    27. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a huge difference. When you see numbers like "128-bit," you're dealing with a symmetric encryption algorithm (e.g., AES). When you see numbers like "4096-bit," you're dealing with an asymmetric algorithm (e.g., RSA).

      So your saying they would only have to hit me once to get me to give up the password for data encrypted at 128, but they will have to hit me 32 times, before I give up the password for data encrypted at 4096 ?

    28. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by blind+monkey+3 · · Score: 1

      I find that very distasteful, almost as distasteful as the suggestions by some that only HR employees seem to be having "unfortunate accidents". This is merely a coincidence, a statistical anomaly which I am sure will right itself given enough time... and HR personnel.

      --
      BM3
    29. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

      The big secret, I mean the one they really keep under wraps to try to keep the nuclear genie in the bottle... Is that plutonium and uranium are delicious

      It's not that big of a secret... I mean, why do you think they call it "Yellowcake"?

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    30. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by SpottedKuh · · Score: 1

      Wow... wooooooosh. Did you even read my post? Past the first sentence?

      Fine, I'll feed the troll. Yeah, I read your post. Yes, I thought the comic was funny. And yes, I understand full well that the even the strongest crypto will not withstand social engineering.

      That being said, you could have made your point better by getting your facts straight. As one small suggestion: "there's no *practical* difference between, say, 80-bit encryption and 256-bit encryption because...". Given that many people don't understand the difference between symmetric and asymmetric crypto, I though something informative was in order, rather than allowing implicit misinformation to propagate.

      It's become quite the popular thing to reply "whoosh" to any post on Slashdot and think you're being clever. Next time, either take the opportunity to learn something, or at least be slightly original.

    31. Re:Theory vs. Reality - Seriously by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      If you understood my point (that crypto-nerds obsess over numbers and math rather than considering the practicality of it), then why would you reply to *support* my point? I still call that a "woosh".

  23. ROT 26 by spike2131 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tell the suits you are implementing state-of-the art ROT-26 encryption on everything. Take a month off. Come back, pronounce it complete, and ask for a raise.

    --
    SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
    1. Re:ROT 26 by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Funny

      That'll never work, it's too obvious. Even the PHBs recognize that there are 26 letters in the alphabet... that number may raise questions.

      I suggest obfuscating it slightly, pardon the 'irregularities' of my math :)

      ROT-26 Swap 2*13 for 26.
      ROT-(2*13) Swap Triskadeca for 13
      ROT-(2*Triskadeca) Swap Duplo for 2*
      ROT-Duplotriskadeca Add Duplotriskadeca to both sides
      ROT = Duplotriskadeca Eliminate
      0 = Dupliskadeca Let d = 4; add 1 to each side
      1 + 0 = Dupliska(4 + 1)eca = Dupliskaeeca Reorder
      1 = cakeisadupel We know that l looks like 1, so go ahead and eliminate.
      0 = cake is a dupe

      The cake statement is a false, a lie!

      Hence we can call this DoublePortal encryption, while knowing we maintained mathematical purity for the name.

      Use of this naming convention for ROT(26) will surely be more amenable to the PHBs.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:ROT 26 by RJFerret · · Score: 1

      ROT 26 is so six months ago, go with next year's ROT 52!

    3. Re:ROT 26 by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "How come my binaries still work without decoding? What were you doing for a whole month? Well, while you were gone we received a message for you, encrypted with ROT256: You're fired."

    4. Re:ROT 26 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ROFL ROFL ROFL

    5. Re:ROT 26 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless they have triskadecaphobia...

    6. Re:ROT 26 by _Hiro_ · · Score: 1

      So that would decrypt to:

      Csy'vi jmvih.

      So someone sent a message in Klingon, encrypted ROT256, and it just happened to resemble "You're Fired"... See, now languages are causing collisions in our encryption algorithms!

      --
      -Pope Peter Porker, S.O.W., K.M.K.R., U.G.O.A., F.S.G.S.D.
    7. Re:ROT 26 by paulhar · · Score: 1

      Insensitive clot. I use 32 bit unicode!

    8. Re:ROT 26 by steelfood · · Score: 1

      0 = cake is a dupe

      So is using ROT-26 jailbait or not?

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  24. Encfs by DougDot · · Score: 1
    I'm happy with encfs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EncFS

    With it you can encrypt what you need.

  25. Quit. Now. by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OK, delay and stall as much as possible while you get your resume shopped around and get a new job lined up.

    Then quit.

    This kind of silliness is (a)stupid, (b)pointless, and (c)doomed. Anyone who claims otherwise is wrong. (And no, I'm not opinionated at all! :-)

    Fundamentally, this will fail because it's a blanket policy on dissimilar environments: All hardware is not equal, and all software is not equal. Portable gear should NOT be treated the same as fixed equipment. Sensitive customer data should NOT be treated the same as OS files. Throwing everything together under one usage policy comes from not understanding ANY of computers, data, or security.

    Get out. Run while you can!

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    1. Re:Quit. Now. by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 1

      Finally a reasonable comment. The question was indeed completely pointless and ignores most of the requirements that are needed for data security.

      First of, if you encrypt the whole hard drive, then start a virus riddled system and connect to the Internet while the encrypted volumes are mounted, you managed to achieve nothing.

      If you really want your data secure, then you have to create a sane data handling policy, restrict data access, train your staff and then encrypt the confidential stuff.

      Obviously Slashdot seems to be the wrong place to start. Ask a security professional.

    2. Re:Quit. Now. by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Get out. Run while you can!"

      In this economy?

      I'd let senior leadership embrace whatever hideous goatsificated disaster they want and ensure I didn't get blamed for it, then let someone else's fail be my job security.

      I work to obtain money, and while working for smart people is nice, I'll work for cretins if necessary. There are strategies for doing this that lessen stress (apathy rocks) and making massuh value your ability to save his bacon.

      Geeks are often idealists. That's adorable until you have bills to pay.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:Quit. Now. by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      Sensitive customer data should NOT be treated the same as OS files.

      Do you know where your OS caches files that you've opened? Even if you do (I'm pretty sure I do), are you convinced that you're going to catch any and all changes to this behavior that come in the next update designed to improve performance. Even if you do keep informed of every single change update patches make to your system, do you really want to change the encryption strategy of every computer you support or hold off the update just because the OS is now caching in a place you didn't have the foresight to encrypt?

      Whole disk encryption is the only way to go if you're serious about keeping your data secure. That's without even mentioning the fact that even though you might know the difference between sensitive consumer data and stuff that doesn't need to be encrypted there are bound to be stupid employees who will copy data off the encrypted partition / usb key / whatever to the unencrypted drive just so they can avoid typing a password.

    4. Re:Quit. Now. by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      Encrypt your resume before sending it out too. There is a lot of personal information on it.

      I suggest,
      1) Encrypt hard drive with True Crypt
      2) Mail out hard drives to employers with resume as the only file. A cover letter might complicate things.
      3) ??????
      4) Get job???

    5. Re:Quit. Now. by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      I'm married, and a parent. My "idealism" is tempered by the part that you apparently didn't read. Let me repeat:
      "OK, delay and stall as much as possible while you get your resume shopped around and get a new job lined up."

      The OP said "My institution", so it's hard to tell whether it's government or corporate. If the latter, my advice is actually likely to keep paying the bills better than working in a company that's going to go down the tubes in another year. If the former, sooner or later a new director will reorganise 'everything,' and after a fiasco like this, is likely to fire EVERYONE involved.

      Honestly, "prepare, cut, and run" is not only sound advice, but downright conservative and safe--ESPECIALLY in a bad economy. The key is in the preparation.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    6. Re:Quit. Now. by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      "Do you know where your OS caches files that you've opened?"

      That doesn't matter. At least not directly. What matters is to have policies and tools in place to deal with it.

      There are tools that will wipe all caches on boot and shutdown. OS partitions can be mounted read-only. These are policies and technologies that, when implemented together, can solve problems.

      WHOLE DISK ENCRYPTION IS NOT THE WAY TO GO!!! If you encrypt an entire environment, it will be an annoyance to staff--and like all annoyances, will be worked around. (email attachments? Personal USB keys? You can forbid them, but if it's the only rational way for someone to do their job, they'll ignore the policy.)

      The less you do that has a 'customer' impact (and for an IT/Security department, the customer is actually the company's staff), the more effective it will be. Years of security has taught me that the minimum rational policy in any given situation, with exceptions as necessary, will invariably produce the best security.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  26. User Error by WiiVault · · Score: 1

    I would strongly suggest you don't encrypt everything. Users forget passwords all the time, right now if they forget their workstation password you can reset it. What if they forget the password for their work related data? Its gone forever. If you do decide to ahead with it be VERY overt that people may lose their work/jobs if a password is forgotten.

    1. Re:User Error by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Any sufficiently enterprisey encryption system would have a site-wide "master key" entrusted to whatever IT staff is responsible for rescuing people from forgetting their key.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    2. Re:User Error by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nope, it will have multiple levels of master keys, so that no one in the IT staff can sell the master key.

  27. Overhead and speed penalties by TheMCP · · Score: 1

    i have a friend who works for a company that has an "encrypt everything" policy. He has a company laptop which is equipped with such encryption software. His wife has an identical laptop. Mr. X's laptop is a dog. Mrs. X's laptop is zippy.

    Overhead and speed are the cost of the kind of encryption you're talking about. That's the price you're going to pay for doing what you're talking about. If you really want the encryption, learn to live with it. If you can't live with it, ditch the encrypt-everything policy and find a way to only encrypt what you have to.

    1. Re:Overhead and speed penalties by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

      Your friend is doing something wrong.

      If you're using a halfway-decent computer and AES, the AES encryption speed is probably faster than the laptop's IO performance anyway.

      We have 25,000 laptops encrypted, and have been unable to find any performance issue -- with the exception of the extra hoops during login.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  28. I have a pdf detailing such a policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    But I encrypted it and lost the keys.

    It was a perfect design and I am sad to have lost it.

  29. PLAESE BACK UP FRIST!!! by linhares · · Score: 5, Funny

    Plase back everything up frist! Send it to us at editor@wikileaks.org and we'll store that data for you for free. We have mirror sites to protect the data; just send it before encrypting it.

  30. Re:Just install Ninnle! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those guys in the Ninnle Labs sure are smart!

  31. Do yourself a huge favour... by howman · · Score: 1

    See if you can find a new job before they start...

    --
    flinging poop since 1969
  32. "I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by AMuse · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I see this directive a lot. It boils down to "We don't know where our sensitive data is, or don't trust our employees to keep it where it should be, so we're encrypting everything!".

    Most of the time when I see this, it's because the person making the directive is responsible for security in some manner but has no experience with risk management and mitigation, so they go for the "all out, definitely safe!" shotgun solution. The problem is there's no such thing!

    What risks are you actually attempting to mitigate through encrypting everything, and are you aware of the risks you are creating? These are questions the person who made the directive should be able to answer! For instance, if you are trying to mitigate the "PII/Lost Laptop" risk, why not implement drive encryption on laptops only, and buy USB sticks (such as Ironkey) which guarantee the encryption? If you're trying to stop a malicious insider, no amount of encryption will save you if they've been given the key.

    Finally as others suggested, what's your key management and password management strategy? I -love- truecrypt but I wouldn't suggest it for a whole enterprise without being able to answer the question "How do I recover the key to this workstation when the employee dies unexpectedly of a heart attack?".

    Best of luck in your endeavor but remember this rule: When it comes to implementing security, NEVER BE AFRAID TO ASK MORE QUESTIONS - especially about requirements.

    1. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      I see this directive a lot. It boils down to "We don't know where our sensitive data is, or don't trust our employees to keep it where it should be, so we're encrypting everything!".

      Which is a pretty good idea. Page files, application-level caches, all this stuff muddles the water of where our sensitive data might be. And trusting employees to keep everything where it should be is just stupid. Even if they're smart guys, people make mistakes.

      Most of the time when I see this, it's because the person making the directive is responsible for security in some manner but has no experience with risk management and mitigation, so they go for the "all out, definitely safe!" shotgun solution. The problem is there's no such thing!

      You're absolutely right. However it doesn't make sense to go from there to, "encrypting everything doesn't make sense because it doesn't make you definitely safe." That argument leads to the inevitable conclusion that any security feature is unnecessary because, as you've said, nothing fits the bill.

      What risks are you actually attempting to mitigate through encrypting everything, and are you aware of the risks you are creating? These are questions the person who made the directive should be able to answer!

      Again, most definitely correct.

      If you're trying to stop a malicious insider, no amount of encryption will save you if they've been given the key.

      Not really. Being able to access the data, and being able to carry the data out are two entirely different things. If your data is really important, and the computer holding the data isn't connected to the 'net, the insider doesn't have admin rights, and the usb ports are disabled to people without admin access...he could still break in and steal the hard drive. There's a reason to keep it encrypted.

      There are also things you might not necessarily anticipate. You don't lose anything by encrypting everything. You are creating some additional risks (users forgetting passwords is a common one), but as long as you are aware that it's not a silver bullet and as long as you have a strategy to handle the additional risks, then it is an option.

      Finally as others suggested, what's your key management and password management strategy?

      Yes, that's the type of question that he most definitely needs to deal with. But again, as long as they are looking into issues of that sort, and not just buying into what they think is instant security, there's absolutely no downside to encrypting everything.

    2. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by AMuse · · Score: 1

      Which is a pretty good idea. Page files, application-level caches, all this stuff muddles the water of where our sensitive data might be. And trusting employees to keep everything where it should be is just stupid. Even if they're smart guys, people make mistakes.

      I agree with you and full disk encryption CAN be a solution to the problems that confront some organizations. However the fact that it can be a solution doesn't mean that it is applicable universally, or is even the most appropriate solution. For example, would you mandate full disk encryption for the disks residing on a server? Why bother, if the server is in a secured area and is never "at rest".

      In any case, the shotgun approach is never the appropriate solution to not putting appropriate thought into the process which is what I most object to.

      it doesn't make sense to go from there to, "encrypting everything doesn't make sense because it doesn't make you definitely safe." That argument leads to the inevitable conclusion that any security feature is unnecessary because, as you've said, nothing fits the bill.

      I would never suggest that, because as you've pointed out it's a slippery slope type fallacy. What I wil say to clarify is that it is not an appropriate replacement for the risk analysis process, as it is often used.

      Not really. Being able to access the data, and being able to carry the data out are two entirely different things. If your data is really important, and the computer holding the data isn't connected to the 'net, the insider doesn't have admin rights, and the usb ports are disabled to people without admin access...he could still break in and steal the hard drive. There's a reason to keep it encrypted.

      Well, when I say "if you have the key" I really mean, having the encryption key. Malicious insiders generally carry out data they've been given access to. Certainly espionage-wise, rival companies or governments are likely to target someone who already has access to the data they want, and get that person to be the leak. If a malicious insider is your threat, disk-at-rest encryption is not going to do much to mitigate that.

      Yes, that's the type of question that he most definitely needs to deal with. But again, as long as they are looking into issues of that sort, and not just buying into what they think is instant security, there's absolutely no downside to encrypting everything.

      I wouldn't go so far as to say there's absolutely no downside to encrypting everything. All encryption has overhead - some products, significant overhead. Then there's either the extra expense of a key management strategy and team plus sysadmin overhead and labor OR the cost of losing data once something bad occurs and the data cannot be recovered.

      If his company does an accurate study into their risks and adopts mitigations for them, it might be the case that they only have a relatively minor pool of sensitive information that can be managed server-side through use of things like VMWare ACE, or Citrix, or ... insert appropriate technology here. If they're most worried about laptop/usb key loss then they can adopt things like safeboot or buy Ironkeys/Cruzers/etc.

      My main point is that encrypting everything has downsides and he needs to be sure they're worth the gain - the only way that can be done is through risk analysis.

    3. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't go so far as to say there's absolutely no downside to encrypting everything. All encryption has overhead - some products, significant overhead. Then there's either the extra expense of a key management strategy and team plus sysadmin overhead and labor OR the cost of losing data once something bad occurs and the data cannot be recovered.

      Fair enough. If you think things through, there shouldn't be a case where the data cannot be recovered (I mean, if something bad happens even unencrypted data can go poof. First of all, backups are important, and second, if you're encrypting things, the ability to restore the password to a default one you originally set is absolutely necessary. Most packages will have some way to do this).

      That said, I was thinking about the technical side of things. From a purely technical perspective, it's definitely feasible and can get you some security benefits. However, you have a good point on labor and other costs. As you've said a risk/benefit analysis is important in any decision.

    4. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by AMuse · · Score: 1

      Well put; there are plenty of cases where the data is and should be "lose-able" and if you're doing proper backups that is even more driven home.

      Also as aside, thanks for the civilized and intelligent debate! That is getting much harder to find online these days. :)

    5. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I -love- truecrypt but I wouldn't suggest it for a whole enterprise without being able to answer the question "How do I recover the key to this workstation when the employee dies unexpectedly of a heart attack?".

      TrueCrypt's FAQ discusses this. See the question beginning "We use TrueCrypt in a corporate..."

    6. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      Also as aside, thanks for the civilized and intelligent debate! That is getting much harder to find online these days. :)

      You're giving me far too much credit. I mostly just misinterpreted your original point. I thought you were arguing that it was always a bad idea to encrypt everything when you were simply advocating careful consideration of all the options and what they entailed. We're in complete agreement there.

      Thanks for taking the time to help me understand what you meant.

    7. Re:"I don't know where my sensitive data is!" by AMuse · · Score: 1

      Excellent, thanks for the post! I hadn't used TrueCrypt in a good while so I am not up to date on their latest status. I'm still nervous about it in a large enterprise but I'd definitely run it through some more tests at this point.

  33. $5 wrenches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:$5 wrenches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wrench is only 4.92in long. A true cryptonerd would have imagined a much long wrench.

    2. Re:$5 wrenches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wrench is only 4.92in long. A true cryptonerd would have imagined a much long wrench.

      It's the cryptonerd who is being threatened. A 4.92in long wrench will suffice. ;^)

  34. For a simpler life, start with hardware by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've used these products for a long time. (There are others; look around.) I suggest you phase 'em in over the next three years, by which time you'll have replaced everything. After all, you already have a budget for replacing all hardware over the next few years, right? Beyond that, remote, enterprise-quality tools for managing this hardware can be *very* pricey add-ons, but if you build your work processes right, there may be little or no need for them.

    That just leaves writing to CDs/DVDs. There are open-source packages such as TrueCrypt. If you're already running WinZip, it'll do the same for removable media, allowing your users to set a specific password for that write then sneakernet the disk wherever it needs to go. If you want to force all writes to optical media to be encrypted, you'll need to look at something like GuardianEdge Removable for a commercial app or something inventive if you must go open-source.

    One last thought: If your data is so important, so valuable, or so legally regulated that you must encrypt *everything*, then you have the money to go open-source, commercial, or whatever works. I see no justification in the submitted question for limiting the choice to open-source software. If you *have* to do this, you *have* to do it right, no matter the cost. If your big guys say they can't afford the cost, then they don't *have* to do it.

    1. Re:For a simpler life, start with hardware by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      ...Did you just suggest using WinZip's password protection to protect media? I hope I'm reading what you wrote incorrectly, as it's a bit vague...but the last time I had a WinZip password protected file I needed to open, I opened the file in notepad and deleted the header, and it opened right up. It's not encryption at all. It's not even a strong password protection. Of course, that was several years ago when I did that so perhaps they've changed it since then.

    2. Re:For a simpler life, start with hardware by man_ls · · Score: 1

      IIRC, WinZip uses AES now. Although it might be vulnerable to a side-channel attack since the volume meta-data is not encrypted, just the payload.

    3. Re:For a simpler life, start with hardware by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      You're correct; it's now 256-bit AES. Where I work, we consider it sufficient for data in transit. If you're going to mail someone a CD with data, you encrypt it with a reasonable password via WinZip, send that password via encrypted email, and drop the CD in the post.

    4. Re:For a simpler life, start with hardware by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      the last time I had a WinZip password protected file I needed to open, I opened the file in notepad and deleted the header, and it opened right up. It's not encryption at all.

      I think your memory is deceiving you. Certainly the password protection in many older office file formats worked that way, but ZIP files have always genuinely encrypted data. It's just that they traditionally used a pathetically weak algorithm that was trivial to break.

    5. Re:For a simpler life, start with hardware by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The open stuff is at least usually peer reviewed. We saw with a court case over cirumventing encryption in an Adobe product that it was the equivalent of locking your car with a peice of knotted string (they used rot13 encoding - can decode it with two round bits of cardboard, a pin and a pen - it's the classic "codewheel" kids play with). Unless you have an encryption product that is peer reviewed in some way it is really just giving you a dangerous false sense of security.

      This whole post sounds like they got the new guy to write a whole lot of contract requirements to pad out the bits that really mattered.

  35. Fedora by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I've been using Fedora since v8. Fedora 9 introduced the ability to encrypt the entire hard drive. I have a least three servers (Apache, Tomcat, and MySQL) running on my encrypted hard drive and the speed in incredible. Absolutely no issues with speed or problems with start-up or shut-down. Setup is as easy as checking a check box during the install. And logging in just requires a password during the Grub boot cycle to unlock the encrypted hard drive.

    Description from Fedora:
    "Support the use of encrypted filesystems for anything other than /boot using cryptsetup and LUKS. This includes install time creation/configuration, as well as integrated support in mkinitrd and initscripts (others?). Currently we are only pursuing support for encrypted devices using cryptsetup/LUKS."

    Further Reading:

    http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/01/18/disk-encryption-in-fedora-past-present-and-future/

    http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureEncryptedFilesystems

    by Anonymous Coward

  36. Why? by peacefinder · · Score: 1

    "My institution has thousands of computers, and is looking at starting an IT policy to encrypt everything, all hard drives, including desktops, laptops, external hard drives, USB flash drives, etc"

    It may be too late for this, but... why? What problems is the policy intended to solve? Is there a less-intrusive way to accomplish the same goals? (For instance, centralizing data stores onto servers and making computing devices effectively thin clients.) Do the key-[loss|management|distribution|revocation] issues result in a better security model than you currently have? Is the threat of technical failure leading to denial of service a problem?

    (For your org, these issues have presumably already been addressed. But others here considering something similar should be sure to ask those questions.)

    --
    With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
  37. Wait... don't do it now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I second the opinion of the first poster who recommended you wait, for several reasons.

    First, most methods of encryption are a pain in the butt. If you want to encrypt only some data, then yes I would say Truecrypt. But then it has to be manually un-encrypted before use.

    If you want to encrypt whole drives, your network, everything, and have it work transparently, you are in for a headache combined with a nightmare. Headache because getting it set up and working is a major project fraught with problems. Nightmare because you will lose whole drives worth of data when something goes wrong, unless you have a very serious, robust, and reliable backup scheme that you use often.

    However, drive manufacturers will be coming out soon with new drives that incorporate DES encryption via hardware. This eliminates the delays and problems with software encryption, and will go a very long way toward making whole-network encryption a lot more practical.

    1. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by argent · · Score: 1

      How does having the encryption in the drive rather than a driver help?

      * the processor in the driver is slower than the processor in the computer.
      * anything that will trash an encrypted partition will trash it whether the encryption is in hardware or software.

      Now you may be arguing that firmware is inherently more reliable than the OS. That's a viable argument, I suppose, but I've worked on too much firmware to believe it.

    2. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by imbaczek · · Score: 1

      DES? DES is too weak. It's either AES or don't bother.

    3. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by zifr · · Score: 1
      Jane Q obviously doesn't know what they are talking about.

      I second the opinion of the first poster who recommended you wait, for several reasons. First, most methods of encryption are a pain in the butt. If you want to encrypt only some data, then yes I would say Truecrypt. But then it has to be manually un-encrypted before use.

      You can cache the keys upon boot so that all your files are accessible on the fly. Use a keyring, encrypted volumes or system encryption.

      If you want to encrypt whole drives, your network, everything, and have it work transparently, you are in for a headache combined with a nightmare. Headache because getting it set up and working is a major project fraught with problems.

      What system wide project isn't frought with problems, don't blame the encryption. Additionally what does networking have to do with encryption on the drives? NOTHING!

      Nightmare because you will lose whole drives worth of data when something goes wrong, unless you have a very serious, robust, and reliable backup scheme that you use often.

      Last time I checked you can lose data without a backup scheme either way.

      However, drive manufacturers will be coming out soon with new drives that incorporate DES encryption via hardware. This eliminates the delays and problems with software encryption, and will go a very long way toward making whole-network encryption a lot more practical.

      DES? Are you freaking kidding me. I think you are incorrectly referring to Seagates BlackArmor Drives which don't use DES, nor does anything these days except some misguided vpn admins. Additionally items like Seagates are not compatible with Linux per their own website.

    4. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      (1) No, processing the encryption IN HARDWARE on the drive is significantly more efficient than doing it with the CPU. That is half the reason they are doing it. (2) Yes, but... trashing is much less likely in hardware on the drive than it is in software. The software SO FAR has been notoriously unreliable for this.

    5. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      zifr obviously didn't understand what Jane Q. was saying...

      "You can cache the keys upon boot so that all your files are accessible on the fly. Use a keyring, encrypted volumes or system encryption."

      Okay. I did not know that truecrypt supported that yet, but if so, fine. It's still more configuration that you have to endure.

      "What system wide project isn't frought with problems, don't blame the encryption. Additionally what does networking have to do with encryption on the drives? NOTHING!"

      First sentence: true but irrelevant. I was referring to the EXTRA effort necessary for having everything (including the drives) encrypted but still interoperating.

      Second sentence: completely irrelevant, as I have just explained. The OP wanted to know about encrypting "everything". The networks and drives do not necessarily have much if anything to do with one another, but they are BOTH part of encrypting "everything"!!! When you have two systems that you have to custome configure (network AND drives), you have extra work to do. This should be obvious to an idiot.

      "DES? Are you freaking kidding me. I think you are incorrectly referring to Seagates BlackArmor Drives which don't use DES, nor does anything these days except some misguided vpn admins. Additionally items like Seagates are not compatible with Linux per their own website."

      Now I know that you didn't read my post thoroughly. I was referring to the drives that a number of different manufacturers have promised to supply, all using the same encryption scheme in hardware. (As another poster stated, that would probably be AES, not DES, which was a silly mistake on my part that I admit.) But as I clearly implied, those drives are NOT AVAILABLE YET, and won't be for a little while. Which is why I recommended OP "wait" in the first place! So... how could I be referring to the drives you mention? That is a completely different animal that I did not even bring up.

      Try actually reading what I wrote before berating me for something I did not say.

    6. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Yes, my mistake. Of course I meant AES.

      The terminology tends to bollix me up, since today's "Defense Encryption Standard" should be the "Advanced Encryption Standard"... but I won't belabor the point.

    7. Re:Wait... don't do it now. by argent · · Score: 1

      The embedded CPU on the drive is a lot slower than the computer's own CPU, so how is it doing encryption more efficiently? There's no magic that makes software in the CPU slower or less reliable than software on the drive... in fact it's a lot faster than any CPU they can put on the drive... and my experience with encrypted drives (flash based, but the principle is the same) has been pretty damn awful. Encryption slowed it down, and any kind of unexpected power loss was almost certain to trash the partition and brick the drive. They have been "notoriously unreliable" for this.

  38. Step 1: Order lots of Post-it notes... by mkcmkc · · Score: 1

    ...because everyone's going to end up writing their passwords on them and sticking them on the relevant hardware.

    Step 2: Submit this to Scott Adams--he'll probably have fun with it.

    Step 3: Investigate performance of various solutions. I hear good things about this ROT13...

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
    1. Re:Step 1: Order lots of Post-it notes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...because everyone's going to end up writing their passwords on them and sticking them on the relevant hardware.

      I can vouch for this. Working in a large organization supporting end users. 90% of the PC's has passwords taped under the keybaord and every laptop has them taped next to the touchpad. Don't see it under the keybaord on the other 10% just pull out the top desk drawer.

  39. Yellow sticky notes by Moof123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The best encryption/security is most easily foiled by humans:

    1. I've seen many username/passwords posted with sticky notes on folks' monitors. Admins are partially to blame by imposing well intentioned, but impractical password rules, resulting in the necessity of users to write that crap down or end up perpetually calling the already overextended IT help desk and being shutdown for hours at a shot to figure out passwords.

    2. I've seen combos to classified safes written in pencil behind the "Locked"/"Open" magnetic sticker (well, the digits were swapped, but c'mon!).

    3. I've had numerous combos given to me for vaults and safes containing secret level materials that ALL followed a retardly simple pattern, making an 8 digit combo lock (4 two digit numbers) effectively a 2 digit one (XY-YX-XY-00). While convenient, it is stupid, and possibly illegal (not sure how the DOD feels about security folks intentionally dumbing down the security they mandate?).

    4. I've had to have our uncleared maintenance dude break into the vault when our crap lock broke AGAIN. Acoustic ceiling tiles really should not be the last line of defense for secret files... We regularly had problems with the combo lock on that door as well, a modest shove would open it, on those occasions it actually latched.

    5. I've had the security chick for a vault blow me off after I carefully explained how the combo lock on the vault was busted. It took two more attempts, and several days to get someone else to demand it get fixed (she and I had a mutual dislike, I wonder why...). If someone just entered the vault you could turn the knob and get in without the combo, the lock was not properly resetting.

    6. I've seen vaults left with only the cheesy punch code combo lock securing things (nobody in the vault) for hours at a shot on weekends, while the dude responsible was off at an extended lunch. This was SOP. Prior jobs demanded vaults always either have a cleared and authorized individual for that vault inside, or that the real locks be spun. Even for bathroom breaks.

    Good looking security with lax culture is worse than weak security with a vigilant user base.

    1. Re:Yellow sticky notes by Hatta · · Score: 2, Funny

      5. I've had the security chick for a vault blow me

      Nice.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  40. TrueCrypt is very fast by tyler_larson · · Score: 3, Informative

    Truecrypt is fast. I have it on all my computers and backup devices that handle sensitive information, and there is zero slowdown visible to the user, even for IO-intensive operations. Steve Gibson from the "security now" podcast did his own benchmark where he created a drive image and timed how long it took to defrag the drive, then restored the bits from the image, encrypted with TC, then timed the defrag again. He then repeated the process three times because he didnt believe the results -- the encrypted filesystem ran FASTER. Take the anecdote for what it is, but the principle seems to hold true in my experience too. TrueCrypt is damn fast. It chews a few % of your CPU time when in use, but it doesnt slow things down.

    --
    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
    RFC 1925
    1. Re:TrueCrypt is very fast by ptx0 · · Score: 1

      Steve Gibson is a quack.

    2. Re:TrueCrypt is very fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is not really a quack, just a bit of a sensationalist.

      His SpinRite product was very useful at one time. (Long ago) Now it is only marginally useful, but still does often manage to read damaged sectors, which allows the drive to remap them. But that is about the extent of it.

      That is (the last time I checked) his only pay product (long, long ago he others). He has a suite of nice free small utilities, though few are really useful anymore.

      The rest of his time he seems to spend on things like podcasts, where he does sensationalize minor issues, but not maliciously. I tend to suspect he does not really realize when he blows minor things out of proportion.

      Overall, he is harmless, which one really can't say about most true quacks.

    3. Re:TrueCrypt is very fast by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 1

      Steve Gibson from the "security now" podcast did his own benchmark where he created a drive image and timed how long it took to defrag the drive, then restored the bits from the image, encrypted with TC, then timed the defrag again

      If it was done in this order, then perhaps the conversion from restored image to TC was defragging it?

      No offense, this should not even be modded informative, since encryption is EXTRA overhead (not faster). AES simply changes the bits (it doesn't compress), you are reading the same amount of bytes, but now you have to decrypt it. By Tom's hardware linked above, it was shown about 94% as fast as normal (remember that performance varies based on processor). But all tests were shown to go SLOWER with encryption.

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    4. Re:TrueCrypt is very fast by LeafOnTheWind · · Score: 1

      What? Of course it's faster. Encryption will compress and remove a certain amount of fragmentation from your data. The bottleneck on the operation is disk I/O, not CPU time. The easy way to correctly benchmark an encrypted filesystem is to use a database on the filesystem and then push a lot of queries and writes. Disk I/O will still play a roll, but hopefully the encryption/decryption CPU time will come out on top.

    5. Re:TrueCrypt is very fast by csartanis · · Score: 1

      This is definitely possible if the truecrypt driver does more intermediate disk caching. Less IO and better overall performance.

  41. Macs and encryption by v1 · · Score: 1

    OS X has built-in support for user home folder encryption. It doesn't support applications and other places outside the home folder automatically though. But unlike windows, 99.9% of user data is in their home folder.

    The entire home folder is a giant sparse disk image and grows as needed. There is a performance hit but it's not a big one. The only complaint we see is sometimes when you logout it will say "your home folder is using more space than needed, do you want to compress now?" That process can take anywhere from a few minutes to an hour depending on how much you deleted that session. Most users can ignore that unless space on the hard drive is running low because they'll just reuse that space during the next session.

    Performance is better than whole-disk encryption because the apps and OS are not encrypted.

    For mobile drives (like my flash drive) I have an encrypted disk image on there for sensitive information. When plugged into my computer, the password is in my keychain and it unlocks automatically. When in another machine I have to supply the password. This is secure in case my drive is lost or stolen, but isn't too inconvenient and requires no special software or anything to install on any machine I plug it into. OS X has built-in support for creation and use of encrypted disk images.

    The system also has you create a master password when making the first encrypted account, and that password can be used to change the user's password if they forget it, which should help your IT department. Normal accounts can be easily converted to encrypted (or back again) with a few button clicks so transition is painless.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:Macs and encryption by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the encryption password is limited to your login password, which is stored as a simple salted SHA1. So, it absolutely requires a strong user password.

      Depending on why you're encrypting, you might be concerned that there's a fair amount of information leak through log and cache files (including your browser cache) that are not encrypted.

    2. Re:Macs and encryption by v1 · · Score: 1

      While I acknowledge the SHA1 limit, the cache files are also stored in the user home, in ~/Library/Caches/ (and ~/Library/Logs/) and will be encrypted along with everything else in the user's home.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:Macs and encryption by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      In 10.5, the Safari cache is moved to /private/var/folders. User logs are stored in the user directory, but system logs aren't, and can be a data leak. (It could also be the case that neither of these are a concern. If you're protecting the contents of files you edit offline, FileVault works. If you're trying to hide that you're downloading porn and burning it to DVDs, it might not.)

  42. Everything?!? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    You do realize that encrypting the OS files that came with the computer really doesn't buy you much, don't you? I would think you would want separate data and executable partitions, and only encrypt the data. (Of course, you could put proprietary executables in the data partition.)

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  43. Why wait? by pavon · · Score: 1

    Seagate sells drives that do that today. If you are concerned about theft, and your motherboard supports it, that would absolutely be my first recommendation.

    If you are also concerned about back doors, or just don't trust that the drive manufactures implemented their encyption correctly, then TrueCrypt is the best cross-platform software encryption method available. I wouldn't recommend using it for whole disk encryption though - it's just too slow. Use hardware for your first line of defense, and then use a TrueCrypt partition to store all the known sensitive files.

    Ironkey has good hardware encryption for USB flash drives. There are others that do as well, but be careful because there are a lot of crappy flashdrives whose encryption is a complete joke. TrueCrypt is also a good choose for flash drives.

    I haven't found an ideal solution for large external harddrives. AFAIK, sticking one of those hardware-encrypted drives into a USB caddy doesn't work because there is no mechanism for providing the password to the drive. eSata might work if your computer supports it. Otherwise you are stuck with software encryption.

    1. Re:Why wait? by PReDiToR · · Score: 1

      My Via C7 with Padlock does hardware AES and SHA-1/SHA-512.
      I've got the AES working under 2.6.28(.4), but haven't seen the SHA working properly yet. I'm thinking that this would show massive speed improvements with TrueCrypt.

      What do you think?

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
  44. And another thing ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work in an organization with 10,000+ field offices in the USA. Every office has an encrypted server and POS machine. Then, there are several hundred more encrypted laptops used by the various levels of management from district all the way to division. Also, several (over a hundred) laptops at out headquarters are also encrypted.

    The problem is that every one of these must be managed. Each password must be logged and then stored. Each one must be changed every year (right after the annual reviews - hire and fire). Everyone who may reboot the computer must know the password (although you can interact with some programs and pass the password to it before a reboot so the user does not need to know). You cannot install it and think your done. You have just created another point of failure that will generate calls to the helpdesk and add to your total IT overhead via management.

    Also, we have had some problems with certain machines not reporting 100% encryption even after weeks of waiting. A full reimage was needed to correct the issue. Just one more piece to watch for - you will have to closely manager the encryption process.

  45. speed penalties by joeflies · · Score: 1

    I know people are concerned about speed penalties, but isn't that the whole reason for using modern hardware in the first place. You didn't mention what the use case was for these machines, so maybe you do need every last megahertz. But for most business users, the machine is mostly idle as it is, and no amount of megahertz is going to let you type your documents any faster. So why not put it to use, like for encryption.

  46. Gotchas by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    First, what problem are they trying to solve with this encryption? Some problems encryption won't solve, and it can create worse ones.

    Is the encryption even going to work? Where I work we found out that the whole-disk encryption works fine when people shut their computers off and then boot them back up. But when you just suspend/hibernate a laptop it resumes exactly where it was, with the encryption software decrypting the disk exactly as normal, without prompting for any passphrase. And 99% of our users used suspend/hibernate rather than powering off, since battery life was the same and it was a lot slower to go through the full boot process. So the encryption wasn't protecting anything, anyone who stole the laptop would have complete access to the data without needing any passphrase.

    We also found that the encryption made disk recovery impossible. One of our developers had his laptop fail. Motherboard problem, the disk was completely fine but the laptop itself had to be replaced. We didn't have any of that model of laptop (not made anymore), we couldn't use that drive as the boot disk for the new laptop and it wasn't possible to enter the boot-time password for it using an external USB disk adapter. So, complete loss of all data on the disk, even though the disk was completely intact and functional, because there wasn't any way for the authorized user to decrypt it to get the data back off.

    And many of the problems can be avoided completely. For instance, I use RDP to get into my office desktop from home or a laptop using a VPN and an RDP client (built into Windows XP, or rdesktop on Linux). I don't have to worry about the laptop, since there's never any sensitive data on it. Anything sensitive stays tucked away on the office desktop, safely behind the corporate firewall. I use similar remote access to my main home desktop for my own data, e-mail and such. This won't work for everyone, since it requires the laptop be in addition to a secure desktop or server, but when it works it makes encryption on the laptop completely unneccesary.

    1. Re:Gotchas by nxtw · · Score: 1

      Is the encryption even going to work? Where I work we found out that the whole-disk encryption works fine when people shut their computers off and then boot them back up. But when you just suspend/hibernate a laptop it resumes exactly where it was, with the encryption software decrypting the disk exactly as normal, without prompting for any passphrase.

      What software did you use? Every whole-disk encryption application I've used requires authentication to resume from hibernation; if the key is stored in the hibernation image, it's encrypted along with everything else. There isn't very much they can do for standby, however. (Remember that in standby mode, the CPU shuts off while RAM continues to be powered.) Control passes directly back to the OS, so there's no opportunity for encryption software to prompt for authentication.

      When the system is in standby or powered on, security depends on how much you can trust the operating system's lock screen...do you enforce the option to require a password after resuming from standby/hibernate/screen saver?

      We also found that the encryption made disk recovery impossible. One of our developers had his laptop fail. Motherboard problem, the disk was completely fine but the laptop itself had to be replaced. We didn't have any of that model of laptop (not made anymore), we couldn't use that drive as the boot disk for the new laptop and it wasn't possible to enter the boot-time password for it using an external USB disk adapter. So, complete loss of all data on the disk, even though the disk was completely intact and functional, because there wasn't any way for the authorized user to decrypt it to get the data back off.

      Every whole-disk encryption application I've used has at least one recovery method. Sometimes, the disk can be attached directly to another system with the software installed, and the user's pre-boot credentials provided. Sometimes, there is a recovery disk that will decrypt the drive. Some systems also have a mechanism to print or save a recovery key before starting the encryption process.

      If you didn't actually test how the product's recovery features worked before deploying it, it's no surprise that you ran into problems.

      And many of the problems can be avoided completely. For instance, I use RDP to get into my office desktop from home or a laptop using a VPN and an RDP client (built into Windows XP, or rdesktop on Linux).

      Unless you've disabled (or encrypted) swap space and disabled any file-backed cache your RDP client might use, there is still the (remote) possibility that information could be sitting unencrypted on the hard drive.

      Complete remote access isn't an option for many. It's not a pleasant option for those who might be using high-latency cellular connections or are far away from the host. It's also not an option for those who do not have access to the network at the times they need to do work.

  47. Encrypt ~, others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To expand a little on most of the modded up posts, have one network drive with tight access control and encryption, and encrypt each users home directory. OSX and Linux both have methods to do this while also giving you a method to recover lost keys.

  48. Not truecrypt, compusec by orev · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've used both truecrypt and compusec, and for a corporate environment only compusec is acceptable. Truecrypt does not provide a master password you can use to quickly reset a password when the user forgets. Compusec is not perfect, but this single feature makes it "enterprise" ready.

    1. Re:Not truecrypt, compusec by NereusRen · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've used both truecrypt and compusec, and for a corporate environment only compusec is acceptable. Truecrypt does not provide a master password you can use to quickly reset a password when the user forgets.

      That's not true. Restoring access to a container or partition with a forgotten password is quite easy if you do one extra step when creating the container. From their FAQ:

      Q: We use TrueCrypt in a corporate/enterprise environment. Is there a way for an administrator to reset a volume password or pre-boot authentication password when a user forgets it (or loses a keyfile)?

      A: Yes. Note that there is no "back door" implemented in TrueCrypt. However, there is a way to "reset" volume passwords/keyfiles and pre-boot authentication passwords. After you create a volume, back up its header to a file (select Tools -> Backup Volume Header) before you allow a non-admin user to use the volume. Note that the volume header (which is encrypted with a header key derived from a password/keyfile) contains the master key with which the volume is encrypted. Then ask the user to choose a password, and set it for him/her (Volumes -> Change Volume Password); or generate a user keyfile for him/her. Then you can allow the user to use the volume and to change the password/keyfiles without your assistance/permission. In case he/she forgets his/her password or loses his/her keyfile, you can "reset" the volume password/keyfiles to your original admin password/keyfiles by restoring the volume header from the backup file (Tools -> Restore Volume Header).

      Similarly, you can reset a pre-boot authentication password. To create a backup of the master key data (that will be stored on a TrueCrypt Rescue Disk and encrypted with your administrator password), select 'System' > 'Create Rescue Disk'. To set a user pre-boot authentication password, select 'System' > 'Change Password'. To restore your administrator password, boot the TrueCrypt Rescue Disk, select 'Repair Options' > 'Restore key data' and enter your administrator password.
      Note: It is not required to burn each TrueCrypt Rescue Disk ISO image to a CD/DVD. You can maintain a central repository of ISO images for all workstations (rather than a repository of CDs/DVDs). For more information see the section Command Line Usage (option /noisocheck).

      The actual FAQ has many of those terms linked to other help files for more info: http://www.truecrypt.org/faq.php

      They don't mention it explicitly, but this process does not require any computation/decryption on the actual data. It will be very fast to execute no matter how large the container is.

  49. This is an IT management nightmare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be quicker, easier, and cheaper, to junk in every desktop and go for thin clients hooked into the datacenter where desktops and servers run as virtual machines with encrypted filestores. Seriously, its easier to take the storage away from endpoints than it is to try and protect it.

    Then issue people who need to move data around with hardware encrypting USB drives, serial numbered and controlled centrally from something like Securewave.

  50. You're still missing the point. by Estanislao+Mart�nez · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hard drive encryption isn't meant to protect against social engineering attacks. It's meant to protect against attacks that don't require social engineering, like stealing or cloning a database server's drives for the information. More than anything, it's meant to provide reasonable assurance that if one of your employees' computers gets stolen by a common thief who just wants to sell it for the cash value, somebody else down the line won't be able to read the data in the drive and take advantage of it.

  51. Key management & legal compliance by nonumnos · · Score: 1

    Standard disclaimer should apply: Talk to your corporate legal counsel first.

    What are you going to do when a user goes on vacation for 1-2 weeks and can no longer remember their password to boot up the system? What you going to do in a similar situation if the person is a "road warrior"?

    How are you going to ensure access to the data during a legal compliance exercise (order of preservation or a subpoena for specific records)? If each user selects their own password/phrase to secure the drive, now what?

    How will you handle shared workstations? Share passwords? How will you "revoke" access or force a rekeying when someone leaves the organization?

  52. Open vs closed source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know I'd be particularly cautious about using an open source product for this. I'm not going to make that decision for the company, my boss or CIO or whoever, but that is "above my pay grade", so to speak. I certainly don't want to have to explain that we went with an open source solution to save a few bucks when the software has inexplicably bugged out and left everything encrypted and inaccessible, necessitating a reload of all machines and restores from the most recent tapes. An outage like that could bankrupt a company. Hell, in that scenario, I could see a manager try to paint you the scapegoat for the action, possibly even trying to have charges brought, criminal/civil negligence or something. People are trying to stretch the meaning of laws all the time to places they were not originally designed. If they want an open source solution ok, but I want a paper trail as to who made the decision to go with the particular product & what other options were considered.

    Open source is a great solution sometimes, I use it myself, but one thing a closed source, properly licensed product, gives you is a place to point the finger, because it's going to be pointed somewhere. Even if the license indicates that they're not responsible for any data loss because of the use of their product. If there is data loss, the company will look to the software vendor to figure out what went wrong, not to you and your, apparently, poor judgment. If you go with an industry leading provider and their award winning solution its much hard for people to look at you as the problem and not the vendor.

  53. encryption can be a total pain by spamking · · Score: 1

    We have been instructed to encrypt all laptops and portable media devices. Some of our machines are slow as it is, the encryption software only increased the number of issues we have had to deal with.

    Our biggest issue that the encryption software is setup with a single sign on, so if a user hasn't used their laptop in a few months and has updated their password they won't be able to login to their encrypted laptop because it doesn't recognize the new password. This means one of us admins will need to figure out which admin password is current on the machine and waste time going in and changing the users login credentials to match their current set.

    We're getting ready to install portable media encryption software that will encrypt all data moved from the computer to a USB device. I can only imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will occur when the first iPod is bricked. Of course I won't feel too bad because they aren't supposed to be used on our network anyway.

  54. The real performance hit: Maintenence and recover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I entirely agree with every caution to wait, ask more questions, and limit encryption to areas where there is a real risk to be mitigated.

    Don't bother to look at the "performance hit" relative to different ciphers: You would be hard pressed to measure the time it takes for any properly implemented block cipher to process data coming and going to a hard drive or etc.

    But your performance hit when those drives start to fail is massive: Lose the header area where the key hash is stored, and you just lost the whole container. Want to run diagnostics against an encrypted drive that won't mount? So sorry. Want to compress encrypted data for storage? The seemingly "random bits" can not be compressed.

    Your backup strategy will need to include end to end encryption between your clients and server if "encrypt everything" is going to mean anything, and you can only do this when the drives in question are mounted and "live" - not after your users have logged off and gone home or to lunch. Off the shelf tools can do this, but encrypting all the drives adds constraints on when and how backups are made.

    No single objection raised in this thread is a show stopper, but add them together and, unless your organization is (for instance) a crime syndicate, there is no possible business case for the costs and risks of "encrypting everything".

  55. no choice in Calif for gov funded agencies by kachakaach · · Score: 2, Informative

    Encryption and a whole host of other requirements are now the law in California for any non-profit, local gov or other agency using state funds and that has any personal data anywhere on their systems. This could be something as innocent as the address block in a letter you typed to one person, does not have to mean the "database."

    http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/osp/sam/mmemos/MM08_11.pdf

  56. Decryption is the part to worry about by Yogurt+Earl · · Score: 0

    To encrypt everything just bitwise AND with a string of all 1's. Then "Ask slashdot" when you need to decrypt everything.

  57. Procedure is important by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The procedure for handling keys and data at rest is important. If you are worried about users forgetting their passwords, then use key tokens (USB memory sticks). This will work if the machine and the stick are not kept in the same bag. In other words, have the users clip the sticks to their key chains.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  58. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you're missing the point here. Hardware encryption!!!!

  59. I've seen this, too by Wee · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The university where I worked a few years ago had a very draconian password scheme. A lot of the profs and TAs and such kept their passwords on post-its, pieces of paper on their desks, etc. One professor's "security measure" was a post-it that reminded him to remove the password post-it before office hours. I'm pretty sure more than one student changed their grades or grabbed a test or something at some point.

    Given how glacially slow IT moves in a university -- and how much buy-in the prima donnas demand for even the slightest decisions -- I'm sure the password topic is still brought up at the weekly meeting.

    Security only works if the convenience/security ratio is balanced properly for the environment at hand. At a public university which is used to openness, the "encrypt everything" just wouldn't fly (because that one tenured prof who likes to share and then remote mount his entire C: drive between his office and home over an unencrypted network connection would pitch a fit and kill that plan by fiat). If you work at a security company or bank or the NSA, then I'd suspect you'd have an easier time of it.

    -B

    --

    Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

    1. Re:I've seen this, too by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Given how glacially slow IT moves in a university

      Um, Wha? It's been my experience, having worked in university, small business, and big-business IT, that university IT is at the bleeding edge, adopting not only what works, but new stuff just because it's new. Big Business might look at buzzword-of-the-month, and decide right away, but they'll test it for two or three years before rolling it out. Most of the time though, BB says "buzzword is unnecessary, we do things the X way here, always have, always will". Small business IT tends to sit in between, using whatever works to make things go, but only changing when necessary.

  60. Speed in RAID situations by TFLogic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We have been doing quite a bit of testing with many platforms - TrueCrypt, LoopAES, etc and we have seen huge performance drop-offs when it came to RAID performance. Unencrypted 5 Disk RAID0, we were able to get Writes 235 MB/s Reads 370 MB/s Whenever we try anything encrypted, TrueCrypt 6.1a - the best we get is ~100MB/s. Where do those superior benchmarking numbers that everyone talks about come from? Both OpenSSL & Truecrypt claim around 400MB/s - has anyone else been able to do this quickly?

    1. Re:Speed in RAID situations by Seedy2 · · Score: 1

      don't use raid-5? :)
      cf. http://www.baarf.com/

      --
      Nothing to say here... move along
  61. FDE hard drives and USB sticks already exist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work at a company with many programmers. We found there was a decrease in speed, quite a large one.

    Seagate (and others) make hardware encryption hard drives and there are USB hardware encryption memory sticks too.

    Don't go the software encryption route, it's a painful experience.

  62. Don't do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    This is a perfect example of an IT directive to solve a problem that does not exist. Encrypting at the drive level can be useful if your key management is good, but it is not meant to be a catch-all for security. Your best bet is to only encrypt the data that absolutely needs to be. As someone mentioned above, use a thin-client model to keep the complexity low. Use an e-mail client that supports encryption if you must, though e-mail is generally not a safe place for anything secure anyway. Make sure your intranet keeps the browser from caching secure data, and train your staff to store top-secret information on an encrypted document server.

    I understand that there is sometimes a need to be paranoid about a stolen laptop, but the XKCD strip linked above is dead on when it comes to what this sort of "security" actually provides. At best it is obscurity. At worst, it slows everyone's life down, bogs down IT support and operations, and chews up funds that would be better used for something like salaries.

    Personally, I think we should move away from the dedicated machine model for all employees. It's much less expensive to secure your intranet servers and expose them through secure tunnels through the internet. Now, all your employees need is an abacus with a good battery.

  63. centrally managed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This is really a great question. We are going through the same trials here at our institution. When dealing with 1000's of users, you really need a supported, centrally-managed solution. Some IT realities must be addressed: 1) users forget their passwords, 2) administrators and or people who have access to data change over time.

    So we need a system which will let administrators unencrypt *every* hard drive, and reset the users encryption password. Also platform independent. Safeboot is a great centrally managed enterprise system. However, it's Windows-only, although MAC OSX may be just along the pipes. Checkpoint FDE (formerly PointSec) might provide an answer for some. They don't support Debian/Ubuntu however at least when I looked a few months ago.

    The native builtin encryption methods for Linux (like cryptfs), seem to require reformatting the disk if you want to do a simple operation like changing the encryption password. Honestly, I don't think there are a lot of great solutions out there yet. More work needs to be done in this area! We need better solutions!

    1. Re:centrally managed by muckracer · · Score: 1

      > The native builtin encryption methods for Linux (like cryptfs), seem to require reformatting the disk
      > if you want to do a simple operation like changing the encryption password. Honestly, I don't think there
      > are a lot of great solutions out there yet. More work needs to be done in this area! We need better solutions!

      If changing the password is your only gripe, use dm-crypt/LUKS. It'll give you ten slots of possible keys (i.e. passwords or external keyfiles), so change to your hearts content without reformatting.
      It also takes care of the issue of being able to have an individual user password and a corporate master-pw.

      LUKS volumes can even be accessed from Windows with FreeOTFE: http://www.freeotfe.org/

    2. Re:centrally managed by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      Centrally managed. Can I remotely log into an encrypted drive laptop while it's running? This is a common support setup. How about someone wearing headgear with low albedo?

      And if there is an administrator who can decrypt every hard drive, what is his price? A hundred thousand dollars? A millon? The continued well being of his son?

      And if this administrator leaves, how do I reset the master password on every machine?

      And how many people know this master password?

      Is the same master password used all the time, or is it a function of the destination and the date?

      Can a laptop be anywhere and be 'recovered'?

      Suppose I wear a hat of singularly low reflectivity: I steal Smith's laptop and his wallet. I now know his name, his company. Do some internet sleuthing and find more info about him. Look up some public records. Now I phone the admin desk, and say, "This is Mike Smith. I thought I knew my password but the laptop says it doesn't recognize it."

      With reasonable skill at social engineering, what are the chances of getting it reset?

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  64. Get professional help - now by Bearhouse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "My institution has thousands of computers, and is looking at starting an IT policy to encrypt everything"

    You're looking at a world of potential support pain. Lost passwords, lost unrecoverable files...

    For those advocating Truecrypt, my understanding is that it lacks the enterprise deployment and management tools of something like PGP.

    You're talking about a fundamental change in your IT landscape, with significant implications for implementation & support cost. Get help.

  65. Start with a limited roll out on riskiest platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Start with the laptops, those are your biggest risk area, with the most probability for loss.

    Once you have gained experience there, then roll out a major desktop solution.

    Finally do something on your servers, those are the ones with the best physical security already. Usually behind a locked door and bolted down to racks.

    In the meantime, if you really care about security, hire someone that can lock down all your infrastructure from intrusion via the network. Empower them to fix your network.

    Most of these data breaches come from insiders downloading data to their computers, followed by someone getting access through the bosses computer and leveraging that to get at all the data files.

  66. Easy solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    have everyone turn on filevault.

  67. Don't worry about performance. by jafo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My company has been running all the machines that aren't at our data center encrypted, starting around August of 2007. On my laptop I honestly just have not noticed the overhead of encryption more than once or twice in that time. When I started it was on a 1.8GHz Pentium M box, so it's even less of a concern with my 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo.

    As I said, it's worked out so well that it's now the standard setup on our laptops. The Eee's my wife and I got last week are running encrypted partitions as well.

    Before I started, I was worried about the overhead of the encryption, but I was really worried for no reason. I've almost never noticed it, and none of the other folks in my organization complain about it either.

    We are using the Linux encryption stuff running under LVM, so our swap is encrypted as well. Everything but /boot is encrypted. We are using "cryptsetup" (dm_crypt) (built into the Ubuntu Hardy and up "alt" installer and Fedora 10 and up). I'd recommend that for the Linux side.

    I've heard good things about TruCrypt, but haven't used it. We don't use Windows or Mac, so the stuff that's built into Linux is our preference.

    The dm_crypt stuff includes "LUKS", which allows you to have multiple keys for accessing the data. So you'd probably want to set up a "user key" and "company key" for each system, and if the user forgets their key someone can check out the company key and set a new user key.

    So, in that way you don't need to worry about the user forgetting their password.

    Also, you still need to have good backups of the file-systems, so if someone does forget their data you can at worst case recover from the most recent backup.

    So the worry of losing keys is a no-op. If you don't have good backups, check out backuppc. I've been very impressed with it.

    Finally, as far as the other poster saying that it's a "shotgun" approach for people who are too lazy to identify their important data... Do you also try to back up only your most important data? What if someone adds a new important data?

    I started with only encrypting a part of the system (because full system encryption was difficult to achieve in older Linux releases). The problem is with leakage. As with backups, it's more provably correct to cover more data rather than less.

    This is why for backups I only do exclusions instead of listing the data I want to back up. That way if more data gets added, I have to explicitly exclude it for it not to be backed up.

    The same thing applies to crypto. Ok, so you encrypt your sensitive data. Do you have updatedb running? Or beagle? If someone looks at the "locate" database of all the files on your system, will that expose something you didn't want exposed? Like the list of your clients? It would for ours, because our document repository has useful file-names. Similar for the beagle database.

    What are you leaking that you didn't intend to be?

    Just encrypt the whole damn thing.

    Sean

  68. 7-11 by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Many more years ago than I'd care to discuss, I used to pull graveyards at the local 7-11. Corporate and Franchise policy back then was, that if you were robbed, you gave up the entire store, on the theory that you were more valuable than the cash or store contents.

    Years ago I worked at 7-11 too. One day we were all called into the district office for a meeting. In the meeting we were told somebody was buying the chain but not to worry, none of us were going to lose our jobs. Less than a week later I did. Three people worked at that store, the manager, an assistant manager and me. The assistant manager and I were fired, and the manager was moved to another store and demoted to assistant manager.

    They, 7-11, didn't care what so ever about employees.

    Falcon

    1. re: 7-11 by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Yep, a sensible and sane policy -- although it can result in people attempting store robberies in some strange ways:

      http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18637190/detail.html#-

  69. May I recommend.. by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

    Compusec

    http://www.ce-infosys.com/english/downloads/free_compusec/

    Fast and good enough to keep out the average bad guy, or local LE.

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  70. mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's good enough for the NSA, it should be good enough for you. Red Hat is really putting an effort in making encryption available for the average user.
    If you have the chance to choose the operating system.

  71. Re:Pointsec beware by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    We paused a pointsec rollout because it blue-screens maybe 5% of the PCs, and once it does that you will never recover one bit of data on the drive. Lost countless hours of work, plus all of the time troubleshooting we did with the vendor and MS. It is a dirty word here now. We managed to get an update which did not have this problem, and it involved updating NTFS drivers along with Pointsec. I got the impression that it was similar to the delayed-write failures that XP suffered early on, with MS blaming drive manufacturers and drive mfrs pointing at earlier XP patches which did not have the problem.

    I have noticed considerable slow-downs, probably because on large files it has to decrypt the whole thing from the beginning instead of being able to seek. Kinda like extracting the last file out of BZIP - they are TARred before compressing and that gives you better performance, but you can't re-create state until you start from the beginning. Of course, anti-virus has the same problem and compounds it with on-access scans.

    Lesson: roll this out to some grunts first, for a month or two at least. If you have to do anything beyond reimaging the drive to get them working, they are not the right people to test it on. Stress test it by turning off the PC when it's in the middle of doing something - you can't control when you lose power or a battery dies, so make sure it's robust enough to deal with simple failures. I'm not saying to skip Pointsec, I'm saying there are probably subtle bugs in every product which may show up with your particular configuration. Our higher level executives found the bugs here and it was not pretty.

  72. The only free, safe comprehensive solution is. . . by Slicebo · · Score: 2, Funny

    dl;kjf9s00, so*9fosdikjk oi*5 soej1j2+~. 7dtTk34l ";Leu3*7&.

    #@$tjke,

    s-=3k,3j

  73. (Sadly) TrueCrypt is not what you want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As much as I like TrueCrypt, it is not what you want to be using when you have thousands of computers.

    TrueCrypt has no way to remotely install or manage its self. It means taking a trip to each and every computer you own and installing it by hand.

    Sadly one of the commercial solutions in this case will save many a headache.

    Something like Checkpoints Pointsec (or what ever they are calling it this month) or PGP WDE for your computers and give everyone IronKeys which can be centrally managed (Pointsec will also encrypt USB keys as well as allow you to control what USB devices are plugged in).

    And no I'm not a Checkpoint shill...

  74. What are you trying to protect and from what? by refactored · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The main question is not "how?" but "why?"

    What are you trying to protect?

    From what? What attacks? What value does it have to the attacker? What value does the secret hold to you? Who are the attackers?

    For example if the value of the secret is low to you, then spending money on protecting it is a waste. Encryption costs to buy, costs to run, costs to manage keys, costs in convenience. eg. (Most secrets aren't worth a trip across town because you forgot your keys once)

    If the attackers are internal, (they usually are), then encryption buys you nothing.

    If the value of the secret is large and the attackers have physical access, then encryption is the strongest link in a very weak chain.

    If many people have access to the secret, then social engineering will weasel it out no matter what your encryption.

    If the attackers are evil and powerful, then encryption is a red flag to very Bad Bulls. You better off with more primitive methods that require real humans to eye ball it.

    Get these questions lined up and answered before you start.

    1. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by guruevi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I work at a University with a Hospital attached to it:

      What are you trying to protect?
      Most likely personal identifiable information or personal health information. Could be anything from student records to social security numbers. Protected under state law and HIPAA.

      From what? What attacks? What value does it have to the attacker? What value does the secret hold to you? Who are the attackers?
      Most likely from loss or theft. The value of that information is 99% zero but our dear government has requested that all such loss is reported and all those people be informed and given compensation. Mostly it's frothing of the mouth over 'they lost my information, now my identity is stolen' which the media likes to amplify. Usually it's the image of the school/hospital/entity that has to be protected. By encrypting they don't have to disclose or pay anything.

      For example if the value of the secret is low to you, then spending money on protecting it is a waste. Encryption costs to buy, costs to run, costs to manage keys, costs in convenience. eg. (Most secrets aren't worth a trip across town because you forgot your keys once)
      Yes, implementing a freaking department to handle it and spending $1m on an all-covering solution is very wasteful. But it has to be done, the big wigs think it's absolutely necessary since some vendor or lawyer has told them. It also increases budgets and manpower in IT so they don't complain either.

      If the attackers are internal, (they usually are), then encryption buys you nothing.
      Yes, because the encryption doesn't work on your home computer (although you have licenses for it people don't want to install it). So the users copy it on a personal external hard drive or usb stick which is usually lost and since it wasn't officially purchased and formatted by your IT department they don't know, they don't have to disclose and if it ever gets high enough up the chain to cause commotion all the end user gets is at most a stern lecture about not doing that again.

      If the value of the secret is large and the attackers have physical access, then encryption is the strongest link in a very weak chain.
      Not only that, the passwords for the users that actually need encryption (enrollment, HR, doctor offices) are generally very weak, shared or have a post-it to the device so if the attacker really wanted, they could use a day of dictionary-based brute forcing and usually you'll have a result.

      If many people have access to the secret, then social engineering will weasel it out no matter what your encryption.
      Of course, but that doesn't matter. You have it encrypted so as long as nobody tells or goes public that they have the freaking thing decrypted (which attacker would acknowledge that anyway - PATRIOT act?) no disclosure is necessary.

      If the attackers are evil and powerful, then encryption is a red flag to very Bad Bulls. You better off with more primitive methods that require real humans to eye ball it.
      I don't know what you mean exactly.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by dropbearsrus · · Score: 1

      As far as justifying use of full-volume encryption, I would guess that for 99% of people they are protecting data against accidental loss or theft of laptops and portable storage devices.

      Corporate espionage etc is a whole other ballgame. Disk encryption can't protect against someone who is really determined to get their hands on your data, remember most users will divulge their passwords if you give them a chocolate bar... that's without resorting to rubber hoses :)

      But disk encryption is useful and worthwhile if just to prevent PR disasters when an exec's laptop is left in a cab or at an airport.

    3. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main question is not "how?" but "why?"

      No, the main question WAS "how" NOT "why".

      But I'll answer your questions.

      1. He's trying to protect all the data, as originally stated.

      2. From what? Ummm, I would assume from anyone being able to read the data, since he wants to encrypt it.

      3. Since when do you wait for an attack to secure your stuff, hmmm? That's just stupid. From ANY attacks obviously.

      4. Asking what value it has to the attacker is like asking what motive X person had to commit Y crime. Maybe none. Maybe they are vandals. It's not like he's going to know in advance how someone might value his data. Maybe they don't value it at all, that doesn't remove it as a potential target.

      5. The value the "secret" holds is also not relevant. It might not even BE a "secret". The value is, you have it, others don't.

      6.

      Who are the attackers?

      Ok, up to this point I though maybe you were seriously trying to help this guy out. This question shows you are a complete asshat. How the Fuck are they supposed to know WHO is going to attack them? Maybe they will be in business 200 years from now and the attackers aren't even born.

      Figure this- for some reason, he has been given a mandate to encrypt everything. Maybe the guy who owns the company just has a paranoid streak. Maybe there's a good reason.

      To answer your 'solutions'.

      If the attackers are internal, (they usually are), then encryption buys you nothing.

      1. Horseshit. If I have the only encryption key locked in my office safe, then it does internal attackers no good to steal the encrypted data. Even less if I take it home. Give keys only to the people who need to access the data, keep it limited. Encryption is often more effective specifically against those internal threats. Set up correctly, it will even eliminate any question about who is trying to 'attack'.

      2. Nice try. So instead of having to look through ALL your encrypted data to find the juicy stuff, you advocate only encrypting the sensitive materials... so the attacker knows exactly what to steal for brute force at a later date.

      3. What's cheaper - locking an encryption key on a usb stick inside a built-in safe in the office (or taking it home), or paying for a team of black-ops capable security to make sure nobody touches your unsecured machines?

      4. As for social engineering, see point 1... it might not really protect you but at least you know who to fire/sue/have arrested.

      5. Exactly HOW are these supposed attackers going to know you encrypt your internal data? Oh, they WON'T... unless they are ALREADY casing your network for attack. See points 2 & 3.

      But thanks for being a jerk.

    4. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by xixax · · Score: 1

      If it means that in the case of just one stolen PC, the repsonse can be "ah, but everything was encrypted!", the PHB will define it as a success no matter the cost or inconvenience.

      So maybe what is being protected is someone's career. Sane spending on risk management be damnned.

      Xix.

      --
      "Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
    5. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by refactored · · Score: 1

      So maybe what is being protected is someone's career. Sane spending on risk management be damnned. So xor the data with "STFU"

    6. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      What are you trying to protect?

      I could tell you but then I would have to kill you.

    7. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by s1lverl0rd · · Score: 0

      Am I the only one who thinks this?

    8. Re:What are you trying to protect and from what? by omsdiver · · Score: 1

      If you could read carefully first post you would not probably ask such questions. ScuttleMonkey has written they want to protect (among other things) laptops, pendrives an alike. Why? Quite obvious. Against theft or in cases someone leave it in bus, taxi or anywhere else.

  75. Go with Full disk encryption on the computers only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Personally, I would recommend going with a full disk encryption methodology utilizing something similar to Utimaco. This provides a challenge/response feature that will enable you (the IT support staff) to decrypt the drive in a situation that would require you to do so (e.g. an employee departs the company, file system corruption, etc).

    As for the external drives, my personal stance on this is that you establish a policy surrounding such devices that would not allow them to store any sensitive data on them. If necessary, you can of course create encrypted volumes with TrueCrypt, Utimaco or something similar; but doing so (as has been stated) is risky if they forget the password to it.

  76. The answer isn't just "use truecrypt" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's what else is there to even choose from? Truecrypt is great, but I also suspect it's not just the best, it's the only player in the market?

  77. Already there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Encrypted LVM's.... mmmmmmmm

  78. Fingerprints are even easier that removing fingers by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Informative

    eyeballs and fingers aren't that hard to remove

    Fingerprints are even easier:

      - Get a print on something.
      - "Develop" it to get a computer image of the print.
      - Fabricate a fake finger from the image any of several ways.

    One example:
      - Etch it into a printed circuit board (using a printer and a Radio Shack grade PC board etching kit.)
      - Cast a fake fingertip on the printed circuit. (Gelatin works for a few-shot prosthetic fingerpint. I think silicon caulk works too if you first lightly oil the PC board to keep it from sticking. Etc.)

    Should be similarly easy to make a fake for a retinal scanner from a retinal scan, which is strictly an optic device. (I'd start with a disposable camera for the holder.) Ditto iris scan.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  79. Think CAREFULLY about how you handle passwds by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you don't ever want to discover that your data is inaccessible, you have to think about whether or not you'll let individual users set any encryption passwords, and how to make sure there's always more than one person who knows any given encryption passwords, and whether or not you'll let all the people who may know a given password get on the same airplane. Because if someone forgets, gets hit by a bus, gets pissed off at the company, etc., you may just find some data just became inaccessible...

  80. SafeGaurd Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is the encryption system we settled on for our corporation. It has a network deployment, network configuration, it also encrypts the disk while the user is using it, so it takes a day or two as it encrypts in the background and the user can shut off their computer and then it will pick up where they left off.

    Looked at Truecrypt yeah but like several others have mentioned really we find a lot of the open sourced really not very well supported. And what I mean by that is you got a system down you can either go to a forum or send an email and someone may get back with you, then again may not. Safeguard easy has fully staffed help desk and support center. All of our installations except 1 went smooth and that one just wouldn't run the encryption utility from the network. Instead it had to manually be started. I would suspect some user interference from that like blocking ports or something.

    Now I will say we used this for all laptops and desktops and removable drives but not servers. No real need when servers are in data center, if someone were to steal the hard drives from there we got bigger issues. Be forewarned though doing this on a removable drive like a USB drive for example basically renders that drive useless for any computer but the one it was encryption on and others on your network. You can't for example take it home plug it into your home computer and expect it to work. And Why because when you manage encryption centrally you typically have a central key for your corporation so you do not wan to give that key out to everyone so they can take it home.

    Also there is no noticeable performance decrease, even from me as a developer running 2 virtual machines off my hard drive at the same time. I use a standard laptop we give to everyone else which is a Dell Latitude with 2 gigs ram and intel core 2 duo, running XP though not Vista.

    There was slight performance decrease when the drive was encrypting because it was going like mad however that was only for a day, would have been 2 but I took my laptop home turned it on and let it just churn overnight.

    Anyway my 2 cents

  81. Ok, I guess "Why?" is late... by multimediavt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, so I guess it's pointless to argue the point of "Why encrypt 'everything'?" There are options out there, but I think you're going to be creating an incredible hit on productivity in the institution and a massive support nightmare depending on the size of your site. Also, keep in mind that you will need to establish a tiered encryption system and master keys that will open everything in every department and agency at the highest administrative level of the organization. There will also have to be new physical security practices to make sure the keys don't get into the wild, as well as a rotating scheme for replacing all the keys on a regular basis and updating all masters.

    Look, I have been on both sides of this argument and know that there are things that you haven't even thought about from the business practices and risk management angles that will have a tremendous set of REAL costs that are beyond the performance overhead on the computing side of things. This is a horribly bad idea! The Pentagon, CIA and DHS don't encrypt everything for a good reason!

  82. "Concerned about overhead and speed penalties" by Xerolooper · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes we encrypt every device(With the exception of PC's). We have not implemented the insert=forced encrypt yet because there are certain software products that use usb dongles that would be encrypted by that policy and they have not worked that out yet. Cameras are a pain and our work requires we use them they are the few times we get viruses although that is not an encryption issue.

    We don't use an open source product except TruCrypt on some of my own portable HDD's. I am pushing that more so we don't have to buy licenses for every piece of hardware. Automation (see below) is a step in that direction. My experiences may still help.

    First where I do use TruCrypt I set up a batch file that opens a simple prompt so the user just enters a password and the drive becomes accessible. The batch file and the TrueCrypt executable both reside on a small unencrypted partition on the drive in question with an autorun.inf file pointing to the batch file. To automatically mount any encrypted volume it sees on the disk you just inserted it goes something like this:
    TrueCrypt\TrueCrypt /a devices /q /e /rm

    Second we use Encryption Plus Hard Disk for our laptops. PC's are not encrypted we invested in a controlled access security system instead of purchasing licenses for all PC's although unlike other /.'rs I can see why you might want to encrypt everything. If your building security is not super tight or just not possible. You have to weigh the possiblity of theft of equiptment against how sensitive your data is.

    Like TrueCrypt our software loads a driver that encrypts and decrypts everything written to the HDD. As you probably know computers aren't always writing to the HDD. So the idea that you'll take a huge performance hit is kind of a misnomer. We have laptops that range from Pentium III's to the latest cpu's. If the laptop is excruciatingly slow to begin with then encrypting the HDD will only make it slightly more excruciating. If the cpu is more current then the user will not notice the difference.

    Yes people loose passwords and forget the challenge questions. Unfortunately here we don't have a good procedure in place to reset them remotely. We have them bring them in and we enter the admin password. Even if the HDD crashes we can pop in the decryption CD and get their data about 50% of the time. Which is not all that far off from the recovery achieved from our unencrypted PC's after HDD crashes.

    In conclusion having imaged and encrypted hundreds of PC's I would say unless you choose the wrong algorithm don't worry to much about performance issues. The most basic algorithms will stop 99% of common thief's from getting at your data. Of course if your worried about the uncommon ones you may have to weigh protection verses performance.

    --
    "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
  83. Re:Fingerprints are even easier that removing fing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that devices that are designed for actual security also measure biological signatures, such as a realistic rate pulse and blood oxygen levels. The gummy bear trick or a photograph isn't going to cut it.

  84. Disk encryption, is easy and well worth it. by zifr · · Score: 3, Informative

    My company has been encrypting everything for some time. We have used Truecrypt with no issues for around 1.5 years I believe. Our linux machines are all encrypted. It's easy to implement with Fedora 9+ and Ubuntu 8.10 alternate installer as Anaconda handles it for you. I also have several encrypted RAID arrays. If you want pm me for a write up on it. I don't want my site getting slashdotted ;) . I'll be happy to give you my how-tos' Just remember, nothing is 100% secure. Document everything. As far as performance is concerned. We have noticed no significant impact from disk encryption. Let all the naysayers whine and say I'm full of it. TOP reports that our encryption from cryptsetup consumes about 5% of our procs on our older IBM celerons 2ghz, that's while writing to an array. The array (mdadm) consumes about another 5 %. It consumes around the same on a single core of our new machines. Our new machines, i.e. Core2Duo 2.2's, Xeon Quads 2.13's and an AMD dual core 2.2 you don't even notice it. Frankly it's so easy to encrypt a system drive these days I am of the mind you are foolish not to do so. The only downside I have come across with system encryption is that I can't do remote reboots. There is a way around it I've read but it's not really an issue for us. Message me if you want, or can. I never have pm'd anyone here before.

  85. We have same problems... by DarthVain · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We have many of the same problems where I work in government. I am not sure how the posters work is organized, but I know at least mine seems ass backwards at times. Its a problem of control and responsibility.

    I assume at the corporate level they manage our servers and centralized data holdings in a secure fashion with encryption. This also includes some items like individual email stored centrally.

    However where I work, everything on your personal computer, which everyone has, is the responsibility of your program, and ultimately the individual to back up.

    So in this lunacy you have in some cases triple protected, rotating passwords on systems, yet next to the box is a USB drive that is unsecured, that contains all the data on said system. In a word, stupid.

    Part of the problem is the rotating passwords. If you do backup you have to do it manually as when your password changes it will break Microsoft's "Scheduled Tasks" (which requires a password, and it is hardcoded). Centrally they really don't seem to care, as it "is not their problem", that is the users responsibility.

    So people being people, and busy at that, most do not back up regularly, and none I know encrypt. Though part of the problem being also that no policy exists that I know of about encryption, which to use, what is acceptable, etc... Franking I don't see IT wanting to create devices they themselves cannot crack as well, which means some kind of backdoor.

    Anyway any advice as to product (I hear TrueCrypt mentioned a lot), or a solution to the automation process that doesn't involve A)Super User Privs, or B)Not having pssword changes, as I don't think IT would ever go for either of those. I have looked around online but I have yet to find anything that easily solves this problem. Also changing to Linux is also not an option.. :) I have to work with what I have!

  86. Servers? by Goonie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    laptops and desktops, sure, but I'd be a bit hesitant about doing this on application servers until I was absolutely sure it wasn't going to cause a nasty performance hit. Furthermore, make sure you've got a very, very good backup strategy first.

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
    1. Re:Servers? by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      If you're worried about your servers being physically stolen, I suggest physical security is the first thing on your TODO list, not Full Disk Encryption.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
  87. Thin client by bugs2squash · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems to me that the main problem with recent stupid leaks of large amounts of information from stolen laptops was not so much that the laptop was unsecured, but that the data had no place being on the laptop anyway.

    Especially now that you can reach a good network from almost anywhere in the USA, even while traveling along the road. Being able to work on real data from a social security database while flying on an airplane is simply not a reasonable thing to ask.

    Can you not start with a core to your network that includes all the encryption you want and then push outwards as you need to.

    Maybe set-up a central server or two that users can VPN into using a thin client. Prohibit wholesale copying of data (sure, they can take a screenshot and paste it into powerpoint, or write some information down off of the screen, but forbid file downloads.

    Then, for some of your employees, give them a locked-down environment on their PC that has greater access permissions.

    The point being, for many users, thin client may suffice and its much easier to protect. And for those for whom it just won't do, you can spend some more time and education on getting them a solution they can work with and make them aware that by and large sensitive data does not belong on a mobile device.

    It's not as if you are going to really encrypt everything anyway - you want people to be able to read printouts !

    I imagine that you just want to secure data at rest on your central servers and data on the move between the servers and the clients, except in a very few specific cases.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  88. Re:The only free, safe comprehensive solution is. by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    Translation:

    Unplug all computers and use mental telepathy.

    It works

    Trust me

    ---

    Translation courtesy of your friends at the NSA

  89. You forgot something... by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    What about your network? If you leave the network unencrypted, you may as well not bother encrypting any of the machines.

  90. North Korea by scum-e-bag · · Score: 1

    You have more success if you set up an isolated/sterile region like North Korea.

    --
    Does it go on forever?
  91. there is a fundamental flaw in the question by kyliaar · · Score: 1

    You want to encrypt everything across the boards, regardless of level of classification or how many people need to access it.

    In essence, that is going to create an environment where everything is as secure as they are on a password protected environment with much more computational overhead.

    The reason for this is that there is no classification between what should be encrypted and what shouldn't be encrypted. Those that need uniform access to unspecified, disparate data across the network (i.e. system administrators) are going to need some easy-to-use convention to get access to debug issues.

    Either there needs to be some sort of root/administrator access or you are going to destroy the supportability of your systems. Maybe the user just gives his encryption key to the IT help desk on a regular basis... that couldn't be broken through simple social engineering.

    Maybe that isn't necessary... maybe there is a feature that allows unauthenticated access to the encrypted data that only your teckies know.

    Basically, too much security equals too little usablility. Thus, too much of the wrong security backfires and becomes bypassed because of the need for maintaining usability.

  92. Re:Fingerprints are even easier that removing fing by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Except that devices that are designed for actual security also measure biological signatures, such as a realistic rate pulse and blood oxygen levels.

    Does that include the inexpensive fingerprint scanners on laptops?

    Given that retinal scanners are optical I bet one could come up with a hack to fool 'em even if they're doing such a lifesign scan.

    Or CLAIMING to do it. In my last few decades I've seen a LOT of "security" stuff that doesn't do anything near what it is hyped to do. (My awakening came when the US government decided to counterfeit its own silver coins with the clad-copper "peanut-butter sandwich" models. Coin accept mechanisms for vending machines were claimed to have an alloy-conductivity test - rolling the coin past a magnet - that you'd have to be more conductive than copper to pass. But they swallowed them just fine with no tuning. Apparently the magnet was really just to catch steel disks and fool the customers.)

    When you're talking deployment to all computer-contacting employees of a large company that is not doing highly-classified research for the government you're talking a budget that doesn't cover putting the truly fancy and high-tech devices everywhere.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  93. First, get a proper security policy defined by Paul+Johnson · · Score: 1

    It sounds like this is a knee-jerk reaction to all those "data-loss" stories. Encrypting *everything* is probably the wrong answer. Start by deciding what the goals are. Then look for the answers that meet those goals in the most cost-effective manner. Security is not a product, its an emergent property of the entire system, including the people who use it. If you don't tackle it in a system-wide manner then you haven't a hope.

    * Goals: what are you trying to protect? (Confidential data, presumably).

    * How might it leak out? (Lost mobile devices, trashed hard drives, posted CDs, angry/corrupt/public-spirited employees all spring to mind).

    * Who does the data have to be shared with? Do they have similar polices? Are they enforced?

    * How can you prevent leaks? Depends on the problem. Declaring an "everything encrypted" policy probably won't help much, because you can't stop someone bringing their own unencrypted thumb drive in and stuffing data on to it. Also its not cost-effective to encrypt ordinary applications. Its user data you need to encrypt.

    So you have to start with an education job. Get the senior management to see that this policy is not going to fix their problem, then show them something more intelligent.

    Windows is probably not capable of supporting a complex security policy. But SE Linux might. If you declared that all mobile devices (laptops, thumb drives, PDAs, mobile phones) must not have sensitive data unencrypted, then put a SE-Linux policy in that divides directories into "sensitive" and "unrestricted", and won't let data move from sensitive to unrestricted without passing through an approved encryption process. That will help stop dumb accidents, but it won't stop deliberate leaks, and it won't stop someone writing the key on a post-it note on the CD.

    I don't know how to set up something like this in SE-Linux: you are likely to need a guru for that.

    --
    You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
  94. Re:Fingerprints are even easier that removing fing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As partially stated above - biometrics should be the last item implemented in a multi-factor security solution. Most security deployments would do fine with 2-factor security - something you have and something you know. The third, something you are, should never be done cheaply. It should also never be done in a situation where revocation is a problem. Cheap computer laptop fingerprint scanners are not secure, and people relying on them to be are misinformed or stupid.

    So far, the arguments I've seen against biometrics are arguments against bad implementations and inappropriate usage, not biometrics themselves.

  95. Tell them you did it. by neo · · Score: 1

    There's not much more you have to do. Your solution should be seamless and it doesn't get more seamless than not changing anything (after the requisite kickbacks from some "software company".) Don't forget to mention that the whole thing is behind schedule. They will smell a rat if it rolls out on time.

    When you've got the Emperors New Encryption up and running, let them know they can test it.

  96. Re:Pointsec beware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    • probably because on large files it has to decrypt the whole thing from the beginning instead of being able to seek

    That is not true. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_encryption_theory#CBC-based_approaches

  97. Whole-disk-encryption is largely overrated by rawler · · Score: 1

    While partial encryption strategies for sensitive data may be a good idea, whole-disk-encryption is largely a bad idea. Most users don't really need to encrypt stuff like temporary files, os files, program files etc. It's just the sensitive user-created stuff that may need protection.

    Especially, some researchers have found that whole-disk-encryption is fairly easy broken (pure software solution) for any machine that has had it's keys in ram (not wiped) up to the last 5 minutes or so. (I.e. in ACPI Standby).
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9876060-38.html
    http://www.itpro.co.uk/170304/disk-encryption-easily-defeated-research-shows

    I go with similar suggestion as some others here mentioned, focus security on home-directories, possibly removable media (although be careful about user education, ALL removable media should of course not be encrypted). Above all, focus on a strong practice and security around putting stuff in networked storage. That can also help keeping backups, versioning and have other positive side-effects.

  98. Wow a entire company dedicated to porn by mrsaggy · · Score: 1

    Or is there another use for encryption ?

  99. I love xkcd, but Munroe missed a HUGE case by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it is, and always will be, easier to just obtain the password somehow than to crack the encryption.

    You can use drugs and a wrench on a few people. You can't do it to a couple hundred million people. When someone drugs you and hits you with a wrench, you know it happened. Try it on a massive scale and the public will find out and grab wrenches of their own.

    That is why hard-to-crack encryption is still incredibly useful. It allows you to deny the enemy the option of attacking undetected.

    And that just happens to be a very credible threat. Massive passive surveillance used to be a paranoid imagination by crypto-nerds, but now it's something we've been hearing about in the mainstream news over the last 3 years.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  100. Stop! Don't think! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My daughter came home from school with an assignment in her computer class. They were going to be learning Powerpoint; she needed to bring in some pictures that she could use in her presentation.

    We pulled up the PC, grabbed a stack of photos off the media server, plopped in a blank cd, and--
    "No!" my daughter blurts. "I can't do that. We aren't allowed to do that."

    Turns out the school has a policy that no foreign media can be loaded into a school PC. Blink. Blink. I guess that is some crazy attempt to keep all the Windows PCs in the lab from getting infected (more than they already do).

    "So how are you supposed to load these pictures into your presentation?" I ask.

    "Teacher said to email them to her."

    "How will they get into your presentation?"

    "Teacher's computer is on the school network, so she can copy them from her email into our folders."

    ====

    My point: teacher's harddrive is encrypted, but teacher's email isn't. Nor is teacher's usb slot, DVD drive, internet connection. Your definition of "total encryption" is inadequate. You are spending a lot of time, money, and effort on a fallacy. Copying an encrypted drive is very, very easy.

    In an effort to encrypt several thousand PCs and other devices, the master keys will leak like crazy. They will probably be written on the same piece of tape with the password that is attached to the bottom of the laptop.

    Thieves will probably require more time deciphering the user's abysmal filesystem organization than they will to decrypt the harddrive.

    And as for the db server... If someone managed to steal it without the encryption key, they probably weren't smart enough to decipher the schema anyway.

  101. Re:Do by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    I understand your point, but you're making it against the wrong thing. Whole-disk encryption done correctly does not get in anyone's way, and does not require working around. Losing a notebook on a trip, or having it stolen from your car while shopping is very easy to do. If someone steals my notebook, they can't get any company data out of it - best they can do is reformat it and have a free notebook.

    I don't have to remember to encrypt something, or erase something - it's all done for me, with no interaction. This *is* what you need to secure. Anyone who makes the security decision not to safeguard something that can be carried by one person, using transparent encryption, should reconsider their career.

    Sure someone who wants the information can hold me a gunpoint and get the password, but how often does that happen vs. a random burglary or lost item? Are these PCs that don't get taken on a trip? Think you don't need encryption because they won't leave the building? You'd be surprised where your missing inventory winds up. I know we were.

  102. dont forget the monitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    be sure to encrypt all output to the monitor, most people forget about this hole. otherwise you are just leaving you data wide open for anybody to see.

  103. I have some advice by NatHoward · · Score: 1

    The bald guy with the coffee cup is named "Wally" -- don't expect him to get any work done. Don't piss off the lady named Alice -- she turns violent at times. Dilbert would be a nice guy for your sister to marry, but it's not going to happen. Steer clear of HR entirely. And, oh yes, it's not polite to mention your boss's pointy hair to him.

    This has "IT Strategy by Partly Comprehended Magazine Article" written all over it.

  104. To some degree he is right by mark0978 · · Score: 1

    Whole disk encryption buys you security from people who steal your computer hardware. It does NOT buy you security from malware, since the disk is encrypted transparently, any process running as the user can read and write the data. You need to look at the whole picture here. Do you need to encrypt the whole drive, or do you need to encrypt the sensitive data and modify the programs that read and write that data to use encryption. If the user is running windows, and running as an admin (as most people do), any worm or trojan could read and stream the data from this computer to a server offsite. If encryption is built into your software, then they can only get at the data via the software.

    We produce encryption software that does this very thing for some banks. The data is encrypted on disk, and our software can decrypt it, but the disk is not whole disk encrypted for the reasons listed above.

    Whole Disk Encryption seems like the answer to your prayers, but it can be one part security theatre if the primary threat comes from within rather the computer, rather than from the theft of that computer.

  105. Re:Fingerprints are even easier that removing fing by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

    To my knowledge, there is no FIPS-certified fingerprint device on the market. They offer no substantive value to a security solution.

    If someone is pitching fingerprint readers, run away.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  106. on-screen encryption? by utahtb · · Score: 1

    Is there anyway to keep things safe while on screen (e.g. from key loggers, etc)?

    1. Re:on-screen encryption? by ALF-nl · · Score: 1

      key loggers store keyboard presses, not what is already on the screen. What you need for that is called a screensaver.

  107. Use caution by brownsteve · · Score: 1

    Many corporate execs seem to think that whole-disk encryption alone will save their butts in case their laptop ever gets stolen. They use it as a kind of insurance against carelessness. Not quite.

    It's worth noting that encryption by itself does not stop a data breach from happening. It only mitigates the short-term consequences. To truly protect your company, you still need a full-service security deployment, and all the inconveniences that come with it.

    Once the data has left your hands, encrypted or not, the damage has been done and there's nothing you can do to stop it. A bad guy could copy it, keep it on the shelf, and wait 15 years until we have quantum computers that can break RSA. Then he knows all your old secrets which could still be very damaging 15 years later.

    A few months ago, someone stole a local hospital's backup tapes from a courier van. Although the tapes were properly encrypted, the hospital still freaked out about it, with good reason. They even paid for credit monitoring for everyone on the tapes. Once the cops recovered the stolen tapes, they sent them to the FBI to assess whether the tapes had been accessed by the thief.

  108. Day 1 most important step by Allnighterking · · Score: 1

    Whatever you do, prior to the moment you encrypt the first partition, have in place a policy for cryptographic rotation and key retention. The last thing you need is to have one of your key persons leave for greener pastures leaving behind all their data and none of their keys.
    In order to be effective the policy for key storage must be one that there is no exception to, period, nada. Changes yes. Exception no. Then figure out a secure way to retain the keys the prohibits rouge usage.
    Finally figure out how you will go about a full key change. What happens if Joe leaves in a less than polite manor (he got his butt canned for cause) and this individual may have copies of the keys. How do you rotate, what gets rotated first etc. Cover your butt when it comes to data destruction as well. The more effort you put into planning, the more likely you are to keep all of your data usable.

    --

    I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

  109. GEOM ELI by swehack · · Score: 1

    If you're already using UNIX file servers then i wouldn't force clients to encrypt. I would simply enforce the use of VPNs and file servers for sensitive information and sharing, while using GEOM ELI to have transparent disk encryption on the UNIX file servers.

  110. How about DiskCryptor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://diskcryptor.net/index.php/Downloads Proper GPL license, not that strange truecrypt one.

  111. Re:TrueCrypt? Please Make the Trolling Stop. by Atti+K. · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Truecrypt is "Free open-source disk encryption software for Windows Vista/XP, Mac OS X, and Linux" as their website says.

    Read the source and compile it for yourself if you don't trust it. Asshole.

    --
    .sig: No such file or directory
  112. So was it acceptable to lose information? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    After receiving such a rep[y I would make sure to remind the CTO (or the Queen of Sheba, I don't care how important somebody is if what I am trying to do is the right thing to do) that he may be legally obliged to keep the information safe.

    That brings back the money to implement the necessary security upgrades.

    Make it personal, it never fails.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  113. You don't need to. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    If an employee dies of a heart attack all your sensitive information is stored centrally.

    Laptops should not be more than thin clients nowadays, whose only purpose is to access data over an encrypted link to your corporate servers.

    Any information stored in a laptop should not be vital or even important to the running of any firm.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:You don't need to. by AMuse · · Score: 1

      jotaeleemeese: You're correct that laptops (for large businesses and government) should be no more than thin clients nowadays in many cases - but the article is about "when you have to encrypt absolutely everything". The poster indicated ALL devices getting encryption, which would include desktops, USB keys, CD-ROM media, email and even servers if you took things that far!

      Keep in mind, requirements are king. If you have no sensitive data but require a lot of computing power on a workstation, encryption there doesn't make sense. You rob yourself of computing power for no security gain. That kind of balancing act is the core of what makes a good IT Security person.

  114. That is why one time passwords exist. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    They are delivered by electronic tokens or even by SMS to your mobile.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
    1. Re:That is why one time passwords exist. by mkcmkc · · Score: 1

      They are delivered by electronic tokens or even by SMS to your mobile.

      Right. I forgot to add

      Step 1a: Add a new line-item in your budget for replacing those password keyfobs.

      Step 1b: Add more 24x7 staff to man the phones when SMS and or your SecureId setup drops out.

      and also

      Step 4: Remind management that hard-drive encryption is virtually useless against targeted attacks (outside of a military environment).

      --
      "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  115. Re:TrueCrypt? Please Make the Trolling Stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Parent called twitter an asshole. Should be insightful, not troll.

  116. Get something paid for by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    If you are at an institution, you need ass covering in your decision. Especially if you use a Windows desktop. We use Safeboot. I'm at a Fed Bureau that is famous. Safeboot even allows admins to recover the password if the user forgets it. They will forget it by the way. Many users are as dumb as a box of rocks. Sometimes I think even dumber.

    Go with FOSS if you dare, my advice is to get a company behind it. That way when it is compromised, they can't criticize your decision. In some cases you may be obligated by law. Check with your legal department. It is also a good idea to consult with a security professional. If something hits the fan, you don't want to seem like an idiot.

  117. Quite Agreed by Concern · · Score: 1

    You're right of course.

    All joking aside, the underlying point is how easy it is to "extract" a password from a person or organization, by means both violent and non-. In the average company, they're written down all over the place. Especially if "password strength" or "freshness" rules have been enabled and thus have made passwords more difficult to remember.

    I believe this is why, given the complexity, risks, and performance penalties involved in full-disk encryption, most companies opt for hardware-level locks instead.

    For instance, in any Thinkpad from the last decade, one sets the hard disk password. No actual encryption is performed on the platter, but the hard drive firmware will simply refuse to initialize without the password. Simply removing the various batteries will not work. Its beyond the means of all but a very few to read data off of a platter without the assistance of the drive electronics. So in practice this security measure is enough to stymie almost anyone but an organized, well-funded, and technically skilled attacker. Beating the lock involves destruction of the drive, so he/she will be interested in data, rather than a quick sale on the black market. The same type who would find it relatively easy to find an encryption key, by any number of means (usually not needing to resort to wrenches :).

    At the same time, this method is available off the shelf, has no performance penalties, no additional risks to data loss, etc.

    Google reveals brisk forum traffic by frustrated laptop thieves who would like to unbrick quantities of certain unfortunately locked hard drives. I would even speculate the prevalence of HD locks has deterred laptop theft overall (at least, of certain brands where the lock is commonly used, i.e. Thinkpads vs. Macbooks).

    Believe it or not, I'm not really advocating taking fewer security measures. In fact, I hope ultimately we do make strong encryption commonplace. Ideally the drive manufacturers will support it with dedicated hardware as a value add. I suspect the primary reason this hasn't been done already is politics. I'm only saying that, sadly, it provides a great false sense of security. Without being accompanied by elaborate and harrowing human practices today practiced only by organized crime and certain branches of the government, full drive encryption does relatively little more for your data security than simply enabling the HD lock in your BIOS.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
  118. Re:Open is not free. by Atti+K. · · Score: 1

    Only free software should be trusted.

    Truecrypt is free-as-in-beer. Ok, so it may not be free-as-in-speech. So what? I just want to use it, why should I care? As long as it's open source, I can take the time and read the source and make sure it really does what it says and does it well.

    oh, btw, hello twitter.

    --
    .sig: No such file or directory
  119. chill effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so as to scare off users!
    Are you writing a competing application of your own?

  120. is it necesary ? by elpichu · · Score: 1

    I think the policy should be revaluated and analyzed instead trying to encrypt everything. Maybe doors' security, a sound message when someone left a USB connected, a policy for what kind of information should be encrypted, log access to the information... But if the cost/benefit of encrypting the hole house is worth, do it.

  121. Pig latin or rot 13 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to be the way Micro$oft encrypts things.

    Or use Greek like SCO.

  122. Re:TrueCrypt? Please Make the Trolling Stop. by andy_t_roo · · Score: 1

    perhaps even informative?

  123. Whole disk encryption = ultimate crib? by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

    I'm not a crypt nerd, but what reading I've done suggests that having the same plaintext encrypted with two different keys out of the same system can give you a lot of information about both keys. And that if you KNOW the plaintext, then you have even more information about the keys.

    If you encrypt the entire disk, do you also automatically move, shuffle, and frag the OS files? That should be good for a 20% slowdown.

    Roll out 1000 laptops. You use some form of imaging tool to do this. foo.dll starts at the same location on each disk.
    Steal two laptops, now I have foo.dll encrypted with two keys from the same system. And I now have the plaintext and encrypted version of some text. Further, I can get copies of the (several) forms of foo.dll from MicroSloth.

    And if they do move the files around a bit, starting off with a million starting locations (assuming cluster boundaries) is a much smaller start set than brute force, yes? (Does truecrypt and it's ilk pad the front of a file with random cruft to discourage this form of attack?

    And aren't the first few sectors of a disk in a pretty rigid format?

    It seems to me that to develop a secure system you want to minimize having known standard files encrypted multiple times with the same system.

    Which in turn means if you are working with winsnooze, you have to keep it from scrawling your data all over C:\.

    I can see two ways to accomplish this with current technology. Doubtless there are more using techniques I'm not aware of.

    1. Have an OS and a Data partition. Only the data partition is encrypted. Beat on the OS so that it uses the data partition for temp files, for the user's registry hive.

    2. Run the secure environment in something like VirtualBox. The OS is booted from an immutable disk. Changes don't survive a reboot of the VM. Add a file shredder function tot he host system to remove the temporary files. The data disk is also a virtual disk, that is encrypted by the guest operating system.

    The existence of the temporary files while the VM is running is still a hazard, but not as great as the temp files and swap files in windows. With a unix host file recovery is somewhat iffier to start with. But since VB is semi-open source adding a feature to generate a random key and encrypt the temporary file should be fairly easy. This key does not have to be known to the user: It changes with every boot of the virtual machine. Now if you can write a windows program that automatically logs the user out when the laptop is closed, or the face disappears from in front of the camera...

    --
    Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.