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Nine Words From Science Which Originated In Science Fiction

An anonymous reader writes "Oxford University Press has a blog post listing nine words used in science and technology which were actually dreamed up by fiction writers. Included on the list are terms like robotics, genetic engineering, deep space, and zero-g. What other terms are sure to follow in the future?"

433 comments

  1. other potential things by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

    Grey goo, space elevator, portal, warpspeed, hyperspace. Scyance. Oh sorry, that last one's not from science fiction, it's from that channel (what's it called?) that shows wrestling.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't hyperspace from video games?

    2. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      And I'm pretty sure portals existed before sci-fi.

    3. Re:other potential things by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Informative

      Warpspeed and hyperspace aren't really used outside of science fiction though. Space elevator and grey goo I'll grant you. A portal is just an opening or a doorway.

    4. Re:other potential things by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Informative

      A portal is just an opening or a doorway. A portal as a connection between to two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    5. Re:other potential things by onkelonkel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dear sweet child. (/pats head).

      Doc Smith was writing about hyperspace and hyperspatial tubes about 70 years ago.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    6. Re:other potential things by bowlingfreak · · Score: 1

      Isn't hyperspace from video games?

      I thought hyperspace was from StarWars

    7. Re:other potential things by someone1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nah, portals exist in fantasy too.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    8. Re:other potential things by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Warpspeed and hyperspace aren't really used outside of science fiction though.

      Yep, but the question was, "What other terms are sure to follow in the future?" and if we ever do invent faster than light travel, you can bet that we'll be using the word 'warp' to describe how fast we're going compared to the speed of light. It's just too convenient. Currently there is no reason to use it in science because, well.......we don't actually have anything that goes faster than warp 1, and that only in vacuums.

      --
      Qxe4
    9. Re:other potential things by Zocalo · · Score: 5, Informative
      Actually, I think we're going to struggle to come up with with the lengthy list we that might imagine here. Most "Sci Fi" terms actually come from blue sky mathematics and science texts:
      • "Grey Goo" was coined by Eric Drexler in the book "Engines of Creation" (1986).
      • "Space Elevator" was coined by Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovskii in an 1895 (not a typo!) astronomy paper.
      • "Portal" was in common use long before it because associated with science fiction, SciFi just repurposed it - half a point at best.
      • "Hyperspace" originated in 19th century English mathematical and science texts to describe Euclidean geometries with greater than 3 dimensions.
      • "Warp speed" though, I'm not sure on. I'm pretty sure it predates Roddenberry though... Any takers?
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    10. Re:other potential things by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Science Fiction is just a subset of Fantasy.

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    11. Re:other potential things by richardellisjr · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to Webster's portal dates back to 14th century. While there may have been some sort of science fiction back then I don't think it's anything close to what we consider science fiction.

    12. Re:other potential things by linzeal · · Score: 3, Funny

      I like my dragons to shoot lasers out of their frigging heads too!

    13. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      I thought your mum was from StarWars

    14. Re:other potential things by techdavis · · Score: 5, Informative

      Portal - n. Origin: 1300-1350

      1. a door, gate, or entrance, esp. one of imposing appearance, as to a palace.
      2. an iron or steel bent for bracing a framed structure, having curved braces between the vertical members and a horizontal member at the top.
      3. an entrance to a tunnel or mine.
      4. Computers. a Web site that functions as an entry point to the Internet, as by providing useful content and linking to various sites and features on the World Wide Web.

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/portal

    15. Re:other potential things by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Science Fiction is just a subset of Fantasy.

      Is it? I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      It always baffled me how the two genres (at least in my mind they're quite different) were always lumped together in bookstores. I was always a sci fi fan but wasn't much into the dungeons, dragons, wizards and trolls thing.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    16. Re:other potential things by Matheus · · Score: 3, Informative

      I strongly disagree. As with any pair of genres there is overlap between the two BUT I would say that Science Fiction and Fantasy are both sibling subsets of Fiction.

    17. Re:other potential things by khallow · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia says "grey goo" was coined by Eric Drexler in "Engines of Creation" which is a non-fiction book.

    18. Re:other potential things by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I thought Doctor Smith was only known for the terms like "Bumbling bucket of bolts" and "Oh no! We're all going to die!!"

    19. Re:other potential things by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh you DID NOT.

      (Removes jacket, cracks knuckles) Now there's gonna be some. Hope you're wearing your Nikes.

    20. Re:other potential things by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      I was hoping Cybernetics would have caught on better than it seems to have. That's an exciting field but it only seems to be referred to in terms of 'body part prosthetics' and other dull and uninspiring labels.

      Although the wikipedia entry seems to wander off into more generalized talk about control and systems - maybe I'm misunderstanding the word.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    21. Re:other potential things by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      A portal is just an opening or a doorway. A portal as a connection between to two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

      Portal = Door or Window. The science fiction pseudo-wormhole you describe is called a portal because it resembles a doorway or window. Etymology is fun!

    22. Re:other potential things by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      I too was always pretty baffled at that. Me though, I'm more the opposite. I've always been a huge fan of fantasy, but not nearly as much of sci fi. I've enjoyed some sci fi, like Star Wars and Stargate, but most of it was more boring for me.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    23. Re:other potential things by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      Only if you use the word "could" to means "sometime in the future, but not with what we currently know." By that reasoning, fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic. Is that any crazier than assuming that at some point we'll be able to travel faster than the speed of light?

    24. Re:other potential things by Abreu · · Score: 4, Funny

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      ...said the man who wrote about space elevators...
      [ducks!]

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    25. Re:other potential things by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Science Fiction is just a subset of Fantasy.

      Is it? I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      It always baffled me how the two genres (at least in my mind they're quite different) were always lumped together in bookstores. I was always a sci fi fan but wasn't much into the dungeons, dragons, wizards and trolls thing.

      Except, that given the right science, a lot of the dungeons, dragons, wizards and trolls things could happen.
      Sci-fi is fantasy because it is fiction that is neither historical or feasibly possible (so much of sci-fi is magical in that there is no solid explanation for the fantastic).

    26. Re:other potential things by sayfawa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And even if an author did coin a word first, the thing is, lots of (good) sci-fi authors actually do some kind of research into cutting edge/blue sky science when writing their stories, or they just like to read about current science research anyway. So when they come up with a term for something that's not going to have a pay-off for 50 or more years and put it in next-year's best-seller, their term for it has a much better chance of getting into public usage than whatever the nerd working on it calls it. But it doesn't mean they had some uncanny ability to predict and/or shape the future.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    27. Re:other potential things by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While this is prevalent today, in the early days, it was less so. Some of the sci-fi authors did research, but many apparently had only a passing acquaintance with the science in their stories, to the point some of it was laughed at when the stories were published by those with breadth or depth of science knowledge. (I am not referring to things generally believed true at the time but proven false later.)

    28. Re:other potential things by srussia · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think we're going to struggle to come up with with the lengthy list we that might imagine here. Most "Sci Fi" terms actually come from blue sky mathematics and science texts:

      • "Grey Goo" was coined by Eric Drexler in the book "Engines of Creation" (1986).
      • "Space Elevator" was coined by Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovskii in an 1895 (not a typo!) astronomy paper.
      • "Portal" was in common use long before it because associated with science fiction, SciFi just repurposed it - half a point at best.
      • "Hyperspace" originated in 19th century English mathematical and science texts to describe Euclidean geometries with greater than 3 dimensions.
      • "Warp speed" though, I'm not sure on. I'm pretty sure it predates Roddenberry though... Any takers?

      Gorram pedant!

      --
      Set your phasers on "funky"!
    29. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>>Only if you use the word "could" to means "sometime in the future, but not with what we currently know."

      That's not quite accurate. If you read true *science* fiction (as opposed to future fantasy), most of the things described CAN be built. For example Robert Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll" describes an automated people mover (like an escalator), but scaled-up to the size of interstates with ~100 mph speeds. Theoretically possible. And then there's Isaac Asimov's "Blow Up" about massive nuclear plants that use fusion to generate heat/electricity - that too is a real world technology that's theoretically possible.

      >>>fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic.

      There's a huge difference. Harry Potter (and other wizards) do magic without using any technology. So I would describe Science Fiction as relating to technology "sometime in the future, which we have the theoretical knowledge to create, but haven't yet learned how to build the machine to enable it". Like fusion reactors. And I would describe stuff like Star Trek or Stargate as Future fantasy where the wands are replaced with rayguns, and the magic with technomagic, and lacking true science.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    30. Re:other potential things by Anenome · · Score: 1

      Both scifi and fantasy deal with impossible things happening. The difference is scifi attempts to justify how an impossible thing could happen via some new technology. Fantasy allows impossible things to occur and makes absolutely no attempt to rationalize those happenings. So, yes, Scifi and Fantasy are related areas of fiction. Should also be mentioned that scifi tends to focus on the future and fantasy on the past.

      --
      "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"
    31. Re:other potential things by Schemat1c · · Score: 1

      A portal is just an opening or a doorway.

      The cake is a lie.

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    32. Re:other potential things by SoupGuru · · Score: 1

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      Only if you use the word "could" to means "sometime in the future, but not with what we currently know." By that reasoning, fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic. Is that any crazier than assuming that at some point we'll be able to travel faster than the speed of light?

      Yes.

      --
      What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
    33. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno - I liked both genres & found it helpful that both were in the same section. At least as a kid, they both evoked extremely vivid imagery for me, something that is lost to me these days.

      On the other hand, it could be that I simply liked novels with compelling stories (adventure, mystery, drama etc) since I did read all sorts of other genres.

      And as for you not being a fantasy fan, I somehow get this feeling that you do in fact like LoTR (which has the dragons & wizards & trolls thing). Also, if you want a really funny read, some of the earlier Xanth books were really some of my favourites (although I didn't find the later stuff as interesting, but that may be because I grew out of them).

      For Sci-fi comedy, I really loved Asimov's Azazel stories. Arguably one of the best short story writers of all time.

    34. Re:other potential things by demi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know why you would bet that. It seems as likely to me that it would be called "entangled replication" or "time drive" or "teleportation"; or perhaps be named after the yet-to-be-discovered phenomena or law that allows us to do such a thing; or originate in a non-English language. Fact is, we don't know and I actually think conventional notions of driving something through space propulsively are likely as not not to apply to such a thing.

      Science fiction can further science by inviting us to imagine the not-yet-possible, but I think we need to be wary of the ways in which the demands of human narrative can limit our imagination as well.

      --
      demi
    35. Re:other potential things by therblig · · Score: 1

      A portal as a connection between to two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

      Actually, the concept of a portal as a connection between non-contiguous spaces existed in Ancient Near East mythology, and more recently, the term has existed in Christian practice in at least two ways. One is the grave as the portal to the next life. The other is the idea of a portal between earth and heaven that opens during prayer and/or worship.

      --

      I struggled for days and days and all I got was this lousy sig.

    36. Re:other potential things by Zarf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I too was always pretty baffled at that. Me though, I'm more the opposite. I've always been a huge fan of fantasy, but not nearly as much of sci fi. I've enjoyed some sci fi, like Star Wars and Stargate, but most of it was more boring for me.

      I don't consider Star Wars sci fi.

      --
      [signature]
    37. Re:other potential things by Peet42 · · Score: 1

      It's always irritated me that my online TV Guide uses "sci-fi" as a blanket category to include fantasy (Buffy) and simple fiction (Jericho). "Fantsay" would be so much more appropriate.

    38. Re:other potential things by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Assuming of course we aren't "xeroxing" around the cosmos in the Xerox X9 faster than light drive.

    39. Re:other potential things by roc97007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Isolinear optical chip"? I'm trying to remember other ST:TNG technobabble, especially from the later seasons when it became the "babble of the week", but thankfully it's all faded from memory.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    40. Re:other potential things by sayfawa · · Score: 1

      I could believe that. I once got my hands on a bunch of pretty old (1930's or so) sci-fi short stories. In one they went to Venus dressed in fur-hooded coats.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    41. Re:other potential things by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 1

      And anything in Fantasy *CAN* happen given sufficiently advanced technology... :)

      Or argued from another direction, if Science Fiction is a set of events that COULD occur given our current understanding of the universe, and Fantasy is the set of events that can be imagined by a human beings, then Science Fiction is a subset of Fantasy...

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    42. Re:other potential things by ildon · · Score: 1

      A portal as a connection between two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

      You should re-read the emphasized part.

      That being said, the second part is inaccurate. This usage may (or may not) have originated with science fiction, but it's not exclusive to scifi.

    43. Re:other potential things by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Cybernetics" was invented/discovered by Norbert Wiener (a mathematician) that deals with the study of control systems (One subset of which might be replacing/enhancing/comparing biological contol systems with mechanical/electrical ones). Your "body part prosthetics" idea sounds like Biomechatronics (the integration of mechanical, electronics, and biological parts). As for a crude example: Cybernetics would be something like "We've developed a replacement heart, now how do we get it to change its pumping rate in response to stress like a real one", whereas biomechatronics would be something like "Let's go develop a pump that can replace a heart".

    44. Re:other potential things by burndive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Science fiction and fantasy are both thought experiments of the form: if the rules (or the state of things) were different in this way, what would happen.

      Some Science Fiction writers like to suggest or imply that the state of the world or the rules might possibly change in the way that they describe, and therefore serve as an explicit warning/encouragement pointing out the good or bad that could come of such a change.

      Fantasy tends to use metaphor and parallel to make this same sort of point.

      If there are no real rules, and anything can happen, this is called "deus ex machina", and it's pretty lame.

      --
      ...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
    45. Re:other potential things by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The problems is that then you would have people confused between Buffy/Jericho and late night Skinamax.

    46. Re:other potential things by ChatHuant · · Score: 4, Funny

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      Pfft, what does he know? Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

    47. Re:other potential things by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      I don't consider Star Wars sci fi.

      Why not?

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    48. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The terms you are looking for are hard and soft science fiction.

    49. Re:other potential things by Zironic · · Score: 2

      Could be because Star Wars is fantasy in space.

    50. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean that channel with the people and the faces and the you know costumes and stuff right?

    51. Re:other potential things by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree. Although after just finishing Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series I can definitely see how there is a large gray area between the two. I guess SciFi (speculative fiction according to my English major g/f) is like pr0n, the definition is kind of hazy, but you know it when you see it.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    52. Re:other potential things by Peet42 · · Score: 1

      And the difference is...?

      (Seriously - there was a *lot* of sex in "Buffy"...)

    53. Re:other potential things by ecalkin · · Score: 1

      if you want fantasy to become science fiction (or science?), read "there will be dragons" by john ringo.

      this is an amazing book (start of a series) if you have ever played d&d.

      e

    54. Re:other potential things by Peet42 · · Score: 1

      Oooh... That brought back memories! I just ransacked my bookshelves and found a copy of Wiener's "The human use of human beings - cybernetics and society" (Original pub. 1950, my copy 1954...)

      I can't remember ever reading it. @'.'@

    55. Re:other potential things by lennier · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why, you coruscating maelstrom of unimaginable energies! You're a seven sector callout, Robot, and that checks to nine decimals!

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    56. Re:other potential things by bcrowell · · Score: 1

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      Only if you use the word "could" to means "sometime in the future, but not with what we currently know." By that reasoning, fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic. Is that any crazier than assuming that at some point we'll be able to travel faster than the speed of light?

      There's sort of a spectrum, with Lord of the Rings at one end and "hard" SF like Hal Clement at the other. Hard SF is SF that doesn't violate the laws of physics. People who don't really understand how science works will often say that our understanding of the laws of physics may change in the future, and therefore you can have your faster-than-light Millenium Falcon based on some future revision of the laws of physics. The thing is, the hard sciences don't work by throwing out old principles and replacing them with new ones. They work by recognizing that a given set of laws is an approximation that holds under certain circumstances, and finding new ways of dealing with circumstances in which the old laws were a poor approximation. Faster-than-light (FTL) isn't actually even completely ruled out by general relativity. What general relativity does rule out is FTL that works the way the Millenium Falcon does. FTL that was consistent with general relativity would have to involve the manipulation of matter and energy on godlike scales, it would have to be consistent with the relative nature of motion (so no getting up to close to c before making the "leap to hyperspace"), and it would be equivalent to time travel. FTL that doesn't have those characteristics is just scientifically wrong.

    57. Re:other potential things by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Grey goo, space elevator, portal, warpspeed, hyperspace. Scyance. Oh sorry, that last one's not from science fiction, it's from that channel (what's it called?) that shows wrestling.

      SoyFy. Not made from real Sci-Fi!

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    58. Re:other potential things by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Good point, and well stated. Clearly I was referring to the concept of moving quickly through normal space, but if FTL travel does not really have a speed, then it is unlikely to be called 'warp' since that wouldn't measure anything.

      --
      Qxe4
    59. Re:other potential things by Angus+McNitt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was taught as a young child that:

      Science Fantasy said the sky was purple.
      Science Fiction said the sky was purple, but gave a scientifically plausible reason as to why.

      I know it's simplistic, but it's been my litmus test thus far. My dad originally attributed the distinction to a John W Campbell quote, but I have never been able to find it published anywhere.

      --
      "To Do Is To Be" - Socrates, "To Be Is To Do" - Sartre, "Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra
    60. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the definition is kind of hazy, but you know it when you see it.

      I'll say. Though they may be mixed up in the bookstores, I skim through a few pages, and when I see the hero brandishing a sword or katana, that's it. That's fantasy.

      If it's light sabre, then it's sci-fi. But then, Lucas decided they were good enough to cut down plastic soldiers. Is this what a Jedi was supposed to be a master of? Beam me out of here.

    61. Re:other potential things by carlzum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Star Wars had a lot of fantasy elements like magic, knights, trolls, princesses, etc, and had a lot less scientific jargon than something like Star Trek. I would still consider Star Wars a blend of sci fi and fantasy, but definitely more in the future fantasy camp.

    62. Re:other potential things by neonsignal · · Score: 1

      "oh the pain, the pain"

    63. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What other terms are sure to follow in the future?

    64. Re:other potential things by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Except, that given the right science, a lot of the dungeons, dragons, wizards and trolls things could happen.

      Agreed.

    65. Re:other potential things by ikono · · Score: 5, Informative

      Star Wars (and Star Trek) are what we call 'Space Opera,' which is a romanticized outer space story, not necessarily science fiction. Both Science Fiction and Fantasy are part of a greater term called 'Speculative Fiction,' which is what that section should be called...

      --
      Karma is for whores
    66. Re:other potential things by kv9 · · Score: 1

      Is it? I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      I always thought that SF is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that happened already. or are you implying that these all "dinosaur" skeletons did not, in fact, belong to dragons.

    67. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If there are no real rules, and anything can happen, this is called "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", and it's quite fun.

    68. Re:other potential things by sjames · · Score: 2

      Probably it's because science fiction is on a continuum. On one end we have near term hard science fiction that may or may not happen in life, but absolutely could. From there, it projects further into the future and/or becomes more speculative in nature until within some gray area it becomes indistinguishable from fantasy with a science and/or technology theme.

      At the latter point, the enjoyment is more in the creation of a set of rules about the world and seeing how things can unfold within a consistent application of those rules.

      That aspect remains even when all pretense that those rules might apply to the reality we live in is dropped. Some feel that dropping that possibility is a loss while others actively prefer it because it allows the rules to vary more radically from the usual.

      Another reason is probably because the liberal arts crowd generally hates both genres no matter how much merit at least some of the stories have.

      To each his own.

    69. Re:other potential things by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      And as for you not being a fantasy fan, I somehow get this feeling that you do in fact like LoTR (which has the dragons & wizards & trolls thing).

      Huh? I'm not one bit interested in LoTR. I tried to sit through one of the movies and just came out wondering what all the fuss was about. Sorry.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    70. Re:other potential things by sjames · · Score: 1

      Of course, any such objection can be overcome if the back story is that millennia ago, humanity achieved a level of technology sufficient to create a perfect virtual world and to repair itself indefinitely. Then one by one, everyone transferred their consciousness into the machine (or died of old age). Since then they have spent their existence immersing themselves into various interesting scenarios (complete with temporarily blocking all memory of their true existence in order to avoid tainting the authenticity).

      Since it's all simulation, anything that can be imagined can exist.

      :-)

    71. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you tried reading the book? I started off with the Hobbit. Extremely interesting. The actual LoTR I found a little more difficult to get started with because it's a lot slower getting started.

    72. Re:other potential things by overbaud · · Score: 1

      I have a mate who is an absolute wizard with the ladies, always pulls 10's, it's like magic. I have another mate that's not... always pulls trolls. Me? I always seem to get girls that after six months turn in dragons.

      --
      Users... the only thing keeping 1st level support from being the bottom feeders.
    73. Re:other potential things by danisdanisdan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Warpspeed and hyperspace aren't really used outside of science fiction though. Space elevator and grey goo I'll grant you. A portal is just an opening or a doorway.

      That's just not true. Google has 974,000 hits on "warpspeed" including:

      http://www.warpspeedperformance.com/ - Exhaust and chassis upgrades

      http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/02/hiv-evolving-at.html - Article about evolution of HIV

      http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2009/04/02/ - Apparently Opera allows you to browse the web quickly. (Admittedly that's rather science-fictiony.)

      And many others.

      Granted, not used currently in *science* but it's certainly used outside science fiction!

    74. Re:other potential things by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Well, that, and the phrase "I aint a half-bad lookin' ape!".

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    75. Re:other potential things by fractoid · · Score: 0

      And I'm pretty sure portals existed before sci-fi.

      Only in Latin-speaking (or derived languages such as German, French, Italian) countries. Nowadays we just call 'em "doors".

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    76. Re:other potential things by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Science Fiction is just a subset of Fantasy.
      Is it?"

      Let's rewrite it: science fiction is just a subset of fiction.

    77. Re:other potential things by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      " By that reasoning, fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic."

      Which, by the way, is the exact Clarke's definition for some advanced enough civilization's science: "magic".

    78. Re:other potential things by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Why not?"

      No matter how advanced a civilization is, their space fighter's engines won't make noise in vacuum nor will move like an atmospheric plane.

      On the other hand, it *can't* be sci-fi. All we know sci-fi is about the future, while Star Wars is about a long time ago, in a far far distant galaxy (grin).

    79. Re:other potential things by mj_sklar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since when is German based on Latin?

      --
      The wii is the revolution, comrade! ...use the fucking wiimote or I'll gut you like a fish!!!
    80. Re:other potential things by WraithCube · · Score: 2, Funny

      "deus ex machina" is latin for "machine from god" and used to describe an ending where an event or "machine" inexplicably comes in and solves all the pending problems such as the germs killing off the invaders in war of the worlds suddenly saving humanity.

    81. Re:other potential things by GuruBuckaroo · · Score: 1

      And then there's Isaac Asimov's "Blow Up" about massive nuclear plants that use fusion to generate heat/electricity - that too is a real world technology that's theoretically possible.

      I'm not sure, but you may be thinking of a different Heinlein story, "Blowups Happen", about a massive breeder reactor that's used to create nuclear fuel for normal reactors.

      Then again, I never read much Asimov.

      --
      Poor means hoping the toothache goes away.
    82. Re:other potential things by fractoid · · Score: 0

      Sorry, you're correct. One of these things is not like the other ones, and all that. :P I do maintain that the German 'portal' and the Latin-based one probably (I couldn't find evidence either way) share a common ancestor.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    83. Re:other potential things by fractoid · · Score: 1

      What general relativity does rule out is FTL that works the way the Millenium Falcon does.

      Which is, uh, which way exactly? Yes, I'm pretty sure that general relativity rules out "rotoscoped streaky stars with a meter-long model of the ship bluescreened on top" as a way to travel between star systems.

      Much fantasy could very well be explained through 'sufficiently advanced' technology. (A good example of is the Girl from Tomorrow books, where they wore a headband called a "transducer" which bestowed psychic powers. Soft sci-fi 20 years ago, but modern EEG processing could build something damn similar today.)

      Contrariwise, much 'hard SF' (except possibly for the hardest of the hard) accepts one or two "gimmes" to make the story work. Take the Ringworld books, for example - apart from a few things (Tree-of-life, Scrith, General Products hulls, and time manipulation fields iirc) they stick pretty much with practical reality.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    84. Re:other potential things by Meski · · Score: 1

      "Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced"

    85. Re:other potential things by burndive · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's Latin for "god from a machine". It involved a diety character being lowered to the stage in order to save the day at the end of a play.

      --
      ...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
    86. Re:other potential things by ChangelingJane · · Score: 1

      And if you want to just be really confused, read The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick.

    87. Re:other potential things by theillien · · Score: 1

      I thought your mum was from StarWars

      Ah, if only I had the modpoints to reward you for the LOLs I got from this.

    88. Re:other potential things by hollywench · · Score: 1

      Kids these day have no appreciation of the classics.

    89. Re:other potential things by DadLeopard · · Score: 1

      Arthur C. Clarke also said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The difference is Science Fiction makes an attempt to explain how things work, at least in relation to the story!!

    90. Re:other potential things by Gary+Perkins · · Score: 1

      Star Wars (and Star Trek) are what we call 'Space Opera,' which is a romanticized outer space story, not necessarily science fiction.

      I'd have to disagree with this. Star Trek (at least, AFTER the original series) has typically made great strides to base most of their stories as close to theoretical physics as possible. I'll grant that quite a bit of material is a stretch, but the bottom line usually comes down to the fact that we still have a GREAT amount to learn about the universe, and the fact that there is so much left to explore from our limited perspective here on this little planet.

    91. Re:other potential things by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Didn't Arthur C. Clarke also say that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? Who is ever in the position to decide what technologies could and could not ever happen?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    92. Re:other potential things by lgw · · Score: 5, Funny

      "deus ex machina" is latin for "machine from god"

      God from machine! What the Hell do schools teach these days? Originally, in Greek theater, a crane used to lower an actor from the sky to take the role of a God and ruin the ending of a play. Now used to describe how a Michael Crichton books ends.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    93. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if I had mod points I would mod you insightful!

    94. Re:other potential things by studog-slashdot · · Score: 1

      It always baffled me how the two genres (at least in my mind they're quite different) were always lumped together in bookstores.

      I always though it was because both genres required extensive use of the imagination, a trait none of the other genres had.

      ...Stu

    95. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      E.E. Doc Smith...

      Lensman series and Skylark Series...

      Important stuff excluding the sexist and technological lackings that made it acceptable for societal absorbtion at that time.

    96. Re:other potential things by unitron · · Score: 1

      I would still consider Star Wars a blend of sci fi and fantasy, but definitely more in the future fantasy camp.

      Lots of people consider Star Wars campy. :-)

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    97. Re:other potential things by StarkRG · · Score: 1

      Why would you say Star Trek is fantasy?

      Cell phones are a reality that did not exist when TOS aired, yet they imagined mobile, hand-held communication devices. Is that fantasy?

      There are far more examples in TNG, especially when it comes to physics ideas. The fact that it explored how and why, or at the very least attempted to explain it makes it Science Fiction to me.

      Star Wars, on the other hand, is about as far from Science Fiction as The Lord of The Rings.

    98. Re:other potential things by StarkRG · · Score: 1

      I am curious as to why you're implying space elevators are impossible.

      A space elevator at ground level is most likely impossible with current technology, and would certainly be unfeasible (the center would have to be very large in order to keep the whole thing together). A space elevator that can be reached by standard aircraft, however, might just be possible, and with stronger material a ground level one might be as well.

    99. Re:other potential things by unitron · · Score: 1

      If not for The Original Series it would never occur to scientists to use the word "warp" in reference to faster than light travel unless acheiving that speed involved "warping" something (fabric of space-time, perhaps).

      More likely would be "n" times "c", as in 2c equals twice the speed of light. (I'll be impressed if they ever achieve {1+[any fraction at all]}c)

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    100. Re:other potential things by unitron · · Score: 1

      Make that "...unless achieving...".

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    101. Re:other potential things by mgblst · · Score: 1

      All fantasy is just science fiction. All you need is to hook the person up to a computer, then feed him the fantasy world. Every single fantasy story could end with them being woken up, hooked up to a computer.

    102. Re:other potential things by martinX · · Score: 1

      I was going to say "deus ex machina" means the eagles JRR Tolkien loved using so much in The Hobbit and LOTR. The books I loved as a 12 year old are actually pretty ordinary.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    103. Re:other potential things by martinX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Portal - n. Origin: 1300-1350
      4. Computers. a Web site that functions as an entry point to the Internet, as by providing useful content and linking to various sites and features on the World Wide Web.

      I remember when Yahoo called itself a portal. It was anything but useful.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    104. Re:other potential things by cyborch · · Score: 1

      And not even future fantasy, just plain fantasy. It starts out with "A long time ago in galaxy far far away"

    105. Re:other potential things by SmokeyTheBalrog · · Score: 1

      I don't believe all sci-fi happens in the future. I believe there are a few stories that explore the origin of life on earth for instance or time travel into the past. An example off the top of my head is Dr. Who. Which I think qualifies as sci-fi, at least somewhat. Though I agree Star Wars flows strongly with fantasy and the prequels flow strongly with drivel.

      Video might have killed the radio star, but Lucas killed part of my childhood.

    106. Re:other potential things by SmokeyTheBalrog · · Score: 1

      Does that include the episode where a ghost has sex with Dr. Crusher?

      To quote Galaxy Quest, "Did you even watch the show?" :P

    107. Re:other potential things by DigitalWallaby · · Score: 1

      Both scifi and fantasy deal with impossible things happening. The difference is scifi attempts to justify how an impossible thing could happen via some new technology. Fantasy allows impossible things to occur and makes absolutely no attempt to rationalize those happenings. So, yes, Scifi and Fantasy are related areas of fiction. Should also be mentioned that scifi tends to focus on the future and fantasy on the past.

      Not so.

      It's entirely possible to have a science fiction story set in the present, or even the past, that utilises the technology of the time. For instance, how about a story (or movie) that plays on the faked lunar landing conspiracy theory? Remember Capricorn One?

      Where science fiction does head into the fantasy realm is when the story has conventions that can't really happen. Star Treks Warp Drive is one of these. ST could be term Science Fantasy.

    108. Re:other potential things by FiloEleven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you read true *science* fiction (as opposed to future fantasy)

      All true Scotsmen wear kilts.

      There are certainly differences between sf and fantasy, but I think you're trying to draw a line in the sand that doesn't exist, or if it does it's probably fractal and not at all straight or easy to delimit. As a faster poster wrote, both are subsets of speculative fiction, and IMO they have much more common ground than difference. Someone else wrote of the hard/soft SF distinction which seems a closer match to the concept you've presented. Even so, there's enough mingling between SF and fantasy that makes it hard to pin down the genre of many stories and a lot of it depends on what you, individually, think is possible or plausible. I don't believe that "mind uploads" or strong AI are plausible, so going by your categories I would call them future fantasy even though they are staples of SF. In everyday conversation I would also call them SF because that is their flavor. Where would a lunar base fall? A lunar society? A medieval society that unearths advanced technology?

      Harry Potter (and other wizards) do magic without using any technology.

      If you can't BS a tech history for Harry Potter, then you're not trying hard enough.

      Just for fun (mine, mostly):

      Harry Potter and his ilk lost the knowledge of the nanomachines that they carry, and by the fourth centuray AD had developed the ritual incantations and wizardly trappings upon which they have come to rely in order to use them. These self-replicating machines (and they are machines, though they were bio-engineered and so have yet to be rediscovered) were created long ago in an event more monumental than the Singularity because reality itself became malleable to the extent that the user understood how--not all the nasty math and quantum psych/physics, but how to pass one's intent on to the machines. Like any complex system, it took some effort for most people to get even small results and a lot more to master, and the unforeseen consequences of a closed beta becoming open (through sexual promiscuity, naturally) resulted in the demise of the advanced global civilization that had created it. Survivors eked out a living how and where they could and, for the most part, passed on the information in story form to their offspring, as well as the nanomchines. The stories changed over the years and many wrote them off as mythical; even more forgot them entirely. You can still find some dedicated users; some wizards but many more mystics, who have guarded themselves against the colossal forces at their command by constructing elaborate belief systems that govern their usage. There is a reason for the strict rules at monastic orders and Hogwarts.

      The truth is that we all have this power. I fear the day when the men of science begin to convince us that it is so.

      There's Harry Potter explained, with Jesus and all miracle-workers thrown in for free. I might as well have called 'em Midichlorians and gotten Jedi in the mix. It's not a very good or original backstory, and it's certainly not hard SF, in fact it has a fantasy flavor (not surprising given the task), but the technological elements are there.

    109. Re:other potential things by firefarter · · Score: 1

      It always baffled me how the two genres (at least in my mind they're quite different) were always lumped together in bookstores. I was always a sci fi fan but wasn't much into the dungeons, dragons, wizards and trolls thing.

      Its just so that they can keep the greasy teenagers away from the storefront.

    110. Re:other potential things by Phroggy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No matter how advanced a civilization is, their space fighter's engines won't make noise in vacuum nor will move like an atmospheric plane.

      You know, very few sci-fi TV shows get this right. Firefly did. Stargate SG-1 occasionally tried (they didn't have that many space battles, but although I remember a few times when they tried to get it right, they often didn't). Babylon 5 made a deliberate choice to have sounds for dramatic effect, but they were VERY good at paying attention to physics otherwise.

      On the other hand, it *can't* be sci-fi. All we know sci-fi is about the future, while Star Wars is about a long time ago, in a far far distant galaxy (grin).

      That would rule out Stargate as well, since that's set in the present.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    111. Re:other potential things by Phroggy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Star Wars had a lot of fantasy elements like magic, knights, trolls, princesses, etc, and had a lot less scientific jargon than something like Star Trek. I would still consider Star Wars a blend of sci fi and fantasy, but definitely more in the future fantasy camp.

      Star Wars also had lightsabers, blasters, giant robot walker things, space ships that can jump to hyperspace, a planet in a binary system where moisture farming is a legitimate occupation, an army of clones let by an evil villain kept alive by the technology in his suit, and let's not forget all the droids. Oh, and it didn't really have trolls in the fantasy sense, it had aliens. But the Force is definitely a fantasy thing, not a sci-fi thing (midichlorians be damned); I'll grant you that.

      The great thing about Star Wars was that all the technological stuff wasn't pristine and shiny, it was old and beat-up. The droids each have a function and serve a purpose (although C3PO never seemed especially useful). Futuristic technology was used as common tools, rather than something impressive to be marveled at. This, combined with a non-futuristic musical score, shifted the focus away from the technology and to the story, which is what great science fiction is about anyway.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    112. Re:other potential things by Vastad · · Score: 1

      I wonder if you've ever heard of Anarchy Online, because your tech history of hereditary nanomachines granting "magic powers" is a distant cousin of the handwavium Funcom used to explain magic-like powers and abilities in their MMO.

    113. Re:other potential things by weetabeex · · Score: 1

      I do maintain that the German 'portal' and the Latin-based one probably (I couldn't find evidence either way) share a common ancestor.

      Indo-European

    114. Re:other potential things by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about neutronium? According to wikipedia, it can now legitimately be used to refer to neutron-degenerate matter - i.e., neutrons that are packed so densely that Pauli's exclusion principle becomes a significant factor - found in the cores of their like-named stars.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    115. Re:other potential things by weetabeex · · Score: 1

      Thing is, C3PO is a main character; doesn't have to be useful. Besides, he's a hell of a story teller.

    116. Re:other potential things by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I think we're going to struggle to come up with with the lengthy list we that might imagine here. Most "Sci Fi" terms actually come from blue sky mathematics and science texts

      I think we should give SF credit when the term is significantly changed in meaning. The list in the article gives a few good examples; "robot" (although not "robotics" which is the term they actually mention), "worm", and "virus" were all in use to mean something different beforehand. Hence, grey goo and (I guess) space elevator are out, the rest are used by SF to mean something different to the original meaning, so if they became real concepts would qualify.

    117. Re:other potential things by Canazza · · Score: 1

      "Science Fiction is what I point to and say 'that is Science Fiction" - Damon Knight (paraphrased slightly)

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    118. Re:other potential things by julesh · · Score: 1

      Science Fantasy said the sky was purple.
      Science Fiction said the sky was purple, but gave a scientifically plausible reason as to why.

      Actually, science fantasy says the sky is purple, leaving the readers to think that it's just purple for no reason, but then takes its characters on a long, dangerous journey on the course of which they discover a plausible reason why it's so that most people have forgotten because their colony world degenerated into iron-age style technology.

    119. Re:other potential things by julesh · · Score: 1

      That's not quite accurate. If you read true *science* fiction (as opposed to future fantasy), most of the things described CAN be built.

      Most people accept stuff in the science fiction genre that cannot be built with any currently known or anticipated science. Faster than light travel is the cannonical example, but there's plenty of other stuff that's just implausible given our current understanding of science. "Grey goo", for example, has been widely featured in SF lately, but is scientifically implausible due to there being no adequate source of energy to drive such machinery.

      There's a huge difference. Harry Potter (and other wizards) do magic without using any technology.

      Well, yes, but there's a range of stuff that's accepted within the fantasy genre. Consider, for example, Wen Spencer's "Tinker" series, where magic is performed by drawing out circuits that capture and convert latent magical energy from the environment. That sounds very much like technology, but it's still fantasy.

    120. Re:other potential things by julesh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Star Wars (and Star Trek) are what we call 'Space Opera,' which is a romanticized outer space story, not necessarily science fiction.

      Space opera is usually considered a subgenre of science fiction. I've met and talked to a _lot_ of science fiction fans, but never one who doesn't consider space opera part of the genre.

    121. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A portal is just an opening or a doorway. A portal as a connection between to two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

      I was going to argue against counting re-appropriated vocabulary, but then I realized that the computer 'virus' was already on the list.

    122. Re:other potential things by julesh · · Score: 1

      QX

    123. Re:other potential things by NikolaiKutuzov · · Score: 1

      To me, there was always a difference in outlook and politics, too: Science Fiction considers possible scientific or social developments and examins how society or individuals cope and react to them. Its question "What will we do if it happens?" is inherently concerned with the well being of humans. "Classic" Fantasy, on the other side, is rarely concerned with real humans, and in most cases reinforces chauvinist and sexist stereotypes. Which is one reason Terry Pratchett managed to tuirn a whole genre on its head so effortless. Harry Potter is again one hero high above the ordinary people. Caveat: There has been progressive fantasy (Michael Moorcrock comes to mind) and pretty reactionary Science Fiction (A.E van Vogt, Heinlein), but still the basic premises of those two genres differ vastly.

      --
      Invita Invidia
    124. Re:other potential things by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good science fiction won't necessarily give you the reason that the sky is purple, however there is a reason and the book is consistent. If the book couldn't have taken place on a world with a purple sky, yet the sky is purple, it's Fantasy. But if the sky is purple, and it's not explained why, it might still be sci-fi. Then again, it might just be fantasy. You have to be able to look deeper to make the distinction, which is why the two genres are generally lumped together at the bookstore.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    125. Re:other potential things by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Since when is German based on Latin?

      German is of course a Germaic language rather than a Romanic one (like Italian, Spanish and French), but it does have a lot of words that are closer to the Latin version than their French relatives.

    126. Re:other potential things by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Thing is, C3PO is a main character; doesn't have to be useful. Besides, he's a hell of a story teller.

      Which is definitely a use. Mostly he's a translator, which is useless as long as everybody speaks the same language, but he's the only one who can understand R2D2 and Ewoks.

    127. Re:other potential things by MisterCIA · · Score: 1

      Handheld communication devices had been around for many years when Star Trek was first aired. Just look at the backpack radios of vietnam or the handheld military radios of WWII. The first patent for a wireless phone is from 1908. All star trek did was postulate that a communications device could be miniaturized. I doubt you would make the statement about TNG if you really knew how many principles of Physics, Security, Engineering and a whole host of other subjects the writers for that show regularly raped out of sheer ignorance and disintrest. Star Wars is far more correct in any scientific sense than Star Trek. And Star Wars is probably one of the "softest" science fiction out there.

    128. Re:other potential things by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Star Wars also has small communication devices and other plausible technology that didn't exist at the time (how about robots walking on two legs? Asimo walks somewhat similarly to C3PO).

      Two things make Star Wars fantasy: The Force, and the structure of the story. Everything else is perfectly fine SF. Star Trek has a less fantasy-oriented story structure, and pretends to be very SFy, but it has plenty of magic: transporters, replicators, psionics. It's given a name and they act like it has a scientific foundation, but those are not really any better than midichorians.

    129. Re:other potential things by mcvos · · Score: 1

      A space elevator at ground level is most likely impossible with current technology, and would certainly be unfeasible (the center would have to be very large in order to keep the whole thing together). A space elevator that can be reached by standard aircraft, however, might just be possible, and with stronger material a ground level one might be as well.

      What exactly is the fundamental difference between a space elevator at ground level and one that can be reached by standard aircraft? Those last few km really don't matter in comparison to the other 36000 km.

    130. Re:other potential things by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      There are far more examples in TNG, especially when it comes to physics ideas.

      Oh you mean like "reversing the polarity" of each- and everything? :-)

      Ok, I'd just say, TNG didn't simply ignore science when it was convinient. Only when it would threaten to spoil the story to be told. (Which in about 60% wasn't even meant to be SF)

      --
      bickerdyke
    131. Re:other potential things by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      If there are no real rules, and anything can happen, this is called "deus ex machina", and it's pretty lame.

      While extremely lame that sort of literature is still sold as Fantasy for children, see for instance the popular "Harry Potter" series.

    132. Re:other potential things by MisterCIA · · Score: 1

      Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it.

    133. Re:other potential things by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Which, by the way, is the exact opposite of a definition.

      what he said was that our everyday definitions of "magic" (Wand waving, Magic Potions, spell chanting) and Technology (Stylus on a Touchpad, Medicine and Voice commands - and fission powered steam engines) are simply wrong. With those definitions, we won't be able to distinguish if some unknown procedure is supernatural or science.

      --
      bickerdyke
    134. Re:other potential things by gerddie · · Score: 1

      Actually, "Warp Drive" is already used, e.g. here: http://arxiv.org/abs/0712.1649

    135. Re:other potential things by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

      I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      Only if you use the word "could" to means "sometime in the future, but not with what we currently know." By that reasoning, fantasy could happen as well, assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic. Is that any crazier than assuming that at some point we'll be able to travel faster than the speed of light?

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke
      Given his motto, I think Clarke would characterize that kind of "Fantasy" as "science Fiction".

      --
      "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
    136. Re:other potential things by StarkRG · · Score: 1

      Oh, obviously there is a ton of physics laws they bent and broke. But you also have to look at it from the point of view of someone in 1987-1994 not someone in 2009.

      Besides, they TRIED to make it more scientific. That alone skews it drastically towards sci-fi.

    137. Re:other potential things by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Should also be mentioned that scifi tends to focus on the future and fantasy on the past.

      Does "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" ring any bells? That would mean Star Wars isn't scifi! Shun the unbeliever! Shuuuuun!

      Hmmm, on second thoughts maybe you're onto something there.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    138. Re:other potential things by StarkRG · · Score: 1

      Hey now, Dr. Who was reversing polarity years before Star Trek! Besides Jon Pertwee pronounced it better, also his ship was a small box made of wood.

    139. Re:other potential things by tsa · · Score: 1

      "Pigs in Space" was sci fi though. It even sounds better than fantasy in space.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    140. Re:other potential things by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Wait, fantasy isn't all about dragons and fairies, is it? Isn't fantasy also things like X-Files, where it all takes place in the present but there's only a few things that are impossible? Or what do you call that genre then?

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    141. Re:other potential things by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Sir Arthur also said: "If a science is sufficiently advanced it is indistinguishable from magic"

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    142. Re:other potential things by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Fantasy often has people running around in what's pretty much medieval Europe, having that at the same time as sufficiently advanced technology is... unlikely. You could argue that there was an intelligent designer who created a world exactly like that, using sufficiently advanced technology to create the appearance of magic in a world that doesn't even know steam power (Strata, anyone?) but Sci Fi would still try to elaborate that while Fantasy considers it done by saying "a wizard did it".

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    143. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Battlestar Galactica.

    144. Re:other potential things by idji · · Score: 1

      Fantasy is where the author creates his OWN world and laws and cosmology in which his story unfolds. Science Fiction is about THIS world and laws and cosmology - just maybe "bent" a bit - or looking over the horizon. Now tell me what "long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away" and "the force be with you" mean and you understand what fantasy is.

    145. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, why are dragons and trolls impossible?

      Just wait for some thousand years of genetic engineering and we *maybe* could see artificially built/changed lifeforms that could look like dragons and fly (perhaps with carbon nanotubes as Wings. who knows?), perhaps even with a store of burnable gas inside that they are able to "breath" onto enemies...

      Same for orcs, just easier - imagine intelligent apes with slightly changed body sculpting to match current views of trolls :D Sure, the "they go to stone when daylight hits them" is far more unlikely :D

      And since Science is indistinguishable from magic (when done right) you could say that we all would look like wizards for some of our ancestors.
      Press on some stick and suddenly music sounds, moving pictures appear. Turn a key and some bulk, ugly ...thing... out of metal and glass moves. All of it magic.
      Come to it: how large is the percentage of people in "developed" countries that *know* how a computer works? For most of them it's "when I press a key some letter can be seen on a screen and printed". Not so different from "chant some words and get a writing on a scroll", especially with voice recognition software...

    146. Re:other potential things by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Doc Smith was writing about hyperspace

      No, that was hyperbolespace.

      It is literally indescribable :-)

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    147. Re:other potential things by Leafheart · · Score: 1

      Wish I had mod points to mod you informative.

      --
      --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
    148. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it? I remember Arthur C Clarke saying that Sci Fi is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that could never happen.

      I always thought that SF is something that could happen, while fantasy is something that happened during an acid trip.

      ftfy

    149. Re:other potential things by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      It involved a diety character being lowered to the stage in order to save the day at the end of a play.

      And what if a bulimic character is lowered to the stage instead? Diabolus ex machina? :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    150. Re:other potential things by Gary+Perkins · · Score: 0

      Does that include the episode where a ghost has sex with Dr. Crusher?

      To quote Galaxy Quest, "Did you even watch the show?" :P

      I'm talking about the series in general. I'm sure the reason I don't remember that episode is exactly because a ghost had sex with Crusher! There are a couple episodes where I was thinking "What was that writer thinking?" I do recall an interview with one of the producers in which they talked about trying to keep the technology showed on the show as real as possible. Whenever a writer came up with something new, they would often consult with a physicist to see if it were theoretically possible. If something got snuck by that wasn't, they would get bombarded by complaints from the fans. I'm sure that ghost episode probably garnered some complaints. Was that an early one? Gene Roddenberry was an odd character. I know he often tried to get as much sex into the show as he could (the guy had a great vision, but it was a bit skewed by his flaws).

    151. Re:other potential things by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      And all science fiction is just fantasy. All you need is to have some magic creating all those machines, aliens etc., either in some part of the real world, or as make-belive for the main character. Every single science fiction story could end with the magic just being stopped, e.g. the wizzard got weak, or the main character by chance happened to speak the magic words which undo the magic, or someone else undoes the magic.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    152. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's not quite accurate. If you read true *science* fiction (as opposed to future fantasy),

      "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

    153. Re:other potential things by Paul+Burney · · Score: 1

      although C3PO never seemed especially useful

      Dude... He was a protocol droid, conversant in over six million forms of communication. Who else was going to talk to the Ewoks. ;-)

      --
      <?php while ($self != "asleep") { $sheep_count++; } ?>
    154. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > (although C3PO never seemed especially useful).

      'Cause having a robot that can speak millions of languages is never handy when you move from planet to planet on a weekly basis ...

    155. Re:other potential things by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      mmm.... Stargate... is it present? or very near future?
      .. oops... just missed
      - when?
      just now
      :-D

      If I read correctly Sci-Fi doesn't have to do to the fact that many are set in te future... it is Fiction about Science :-).
      That's why you can still read Jules Verne today, even if it is a "past" sci-fi, about science we already have *or not*.

    156. Re:other potential things by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      Apparently Opera allows you to browse the web quickly. (Admittedly that's rather science-fictiony.)

      That's not science-fiction at all. On one hand you've got the internet. On the other hand you've got Opera. You get that don't you? OK, now I'm telling you that Opera is better than the internet.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
    157. Re:other potential things by tjonnyc999 · · Score: 1

      LOL, handwavium.

    158. Re:other potential things by khallow · · Score: 1

      I don't see why you are baffled. First, the readers and authors tend to overlap a lot. That alone probably explains why bookstores group them together. Second, the only real distinction between fantasy and science fiction is that the latter has a compulsion to explain in a credible why things are the way they are. If the explanation is shoddy or non-scientific, then you often have "science fantasy", the intermediate product of the two. So to give an example, "The Lord of the Rings" by J. R. R. Tolkien is fantasy. There's no attempt to explain why things work the way they do. The "World of Tiers" series by Philip José Farmer is an example of science fantasy. First, it has strong fantasy elements, but later explains them as the result of extremely advanced technology including the ability to create and manipulate small universes. No effort has been made to explain the details of this technology or how it would be implemented. Finally, you have science fiction proper, for example, the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. Here, there still are fantastic elements, for example, the unexplained ability to jump between distant points in space, effectively moving faster than light. On the other hand, the key parts of the series are the ability to predict and manipulation centuries ahead human activities on a galactic scale. Details are still lacking, but the author makes an effort to come up with reasonable explanations for the phenomena in the story.

      Finally, on this scale, there is "hard" science fiction which goes to lengths to have the phenomena appearing in the book consistent with current scientific lore. An example of this is Between the Strokes of Night by Charles Sheffield. In this book, he presents a way an interstellar society could form without requiring warp drives or other faster than light means of travel. There's also other remarkable technologies and catastrophic events that are all reasonable given modern technology.

    159. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Warpspeed and hyperspace aren't really used outside of science fiction though...

      Don't tell theoretical physicist Dr. Michio Kaku that the term hyperspace isn't used outside science fiction. He uses the term to explain the possibility of ten-dimensional space using string theory in his book, Hyperspace.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_(book)

    160. Re:other potential things by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Good science fiction won't necessarily give you the reason that the sky is purple, however there is a reason and the book is consistent. If the book couldn't have taken place on a world with a purple sky, yet the sky is purple, it's Fantasy.

      No, the second isn't necessarily Fantasy, it is just bad writing. Any book that is worth reading is consistent.
      The key to writing good Speculative Fiction is to take a basic assumption about the world and say, "What if this were true? How would the world look?" and then build a plot in that world. If the change is something like "faster than light travel is possible" than you are writing Science Fiction. If the change is something like "there are people who can make changes to the physical world by wishing it so" you are writing Fantasy.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    161. Re:other potential things by Snowgen · · Score: 1

      "Warp speed" though, I'm not sure on. I'm pretty sure it predates Roddenberry though... Any takers?

      "Warp", as a nautical term, is a method of moving a ship by pulling on a rope. C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower frequently does this in the novels (often having the crew in a rowboat carry the anchor some distance then drop it, then the shipboard crew pulls the line to drag the ship to the new location where the process is repeated). Seeing that Roddenberry frequently described Trek as "Horatio Hornblower in space" I would say that Roddenberry borrowed the nautical term to have a new meaning.

    162. Re:other potential things by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 1

      Fantasy often has people running around in what's pretty much medieval Europe, having that at the same time as sufficiently advanced technology is... unlikely.

      More or less likely than FTL travel?

      None of what you said refutes my thesis. All you're claiming, in essence, is Sci Fi is just a restricted subset of Fantasy that (usually) requires some explanation of how things are done. There are plenty of examples, though, of Sci Fi (Lensman, the later Ender books, A Fire Upon the Deep) that is more "magical" than most Medieval Fantasy and some Medieval Fantasy stories put more explanation and detail into how their "magical systems" work than most Sci Fi bother to put into explaining how they sidestep fundamental laws of physics (Heisenberg Compensators? Seriously?)...

      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    163. Re:other potential things by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Funny

      I do maintain that the German 'portal' and the Latin-based one probably (I couldn't find evidence either way) share a common ancestor.

      Their common ancestor is a carpenter.

    164. Re:other potential things by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Is he a thinker and a fisherman?

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    165. Re:other potential things by Touvan · · Score: 1

      Sci-Fi and Fantasy do have a common thread - the rules of the world, which both are usually and ultimately about, are consistent. Whether the rules try to adhere to current scientific theory (regardless of whether it does turn out to be possible in real life) or some magical rule set, the world is judged on how well the characters play by the rule set.

      Of course it's also possible to use Sci-Fi or Fantasy as a setting to do drama, instead of as a genre. Battlestar Galactica did character driven drama story archs in a Sci-Fi setting. It did ultimately fail the Sci-Fi test with it's abysmal "because God said so" ending. *grumbles*

    166. Re:other potential things by Takumi2501 · · Score: 1

      Oh you mean like "reversing the polarity" of each- and everything? :-)

      Don't forget that the deflector dish can be modified in some way to solve just about any problem.

      That aside, I still consider Star Trek to be sci-fi.

      --
      Sent from my computer.
      Now GET OFF MY LAWN!
    167. Re:other potential things by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      But that was what I liked about ST:TNG. You never knew what the next episode was going to be. Comedy, Crime, Drama, History, some war movie, mystery, sometimes even Science Fiction! It was like a box of chocolates! Held together with SF Icing.

      --
      bickerdyke
    168. Re:other potential things by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      what do you call...

      Hey, remember when you called us all sci fi nerd losers. After the comments you made on that thread I'm surprised you were dumb enough to comment in this one.

      Then again maybe not ;)

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    169. Re:other potential things by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      You *would* hear your own engines... if the engines are the sort that would make noise.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    170. Re:other potential things by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      W0rd.

      You could make Tatooine an island and the spaceships boats and it would all still make sense. Yes, it's fantasy with spaceships and lasers.

      Sci-Fi shouldn't be the elements in the story, but the story itself. If you set Friends in the 29th century, it would be a SitCom. Ross having a cyberjack in his head wouldn't make the show cyberpuck or Sci-Fi. Frankenstein is Sci-Fi because it explores how science could be misused, despite being set in the 18th century (or whichever).

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    171. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, some people will do anything to get in to the first show on opening night.

    172. Re:other potential things by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      But not, as in that Fantasy is usually set with mixed-tech. When you have the technology for Merlin to be a guy with a fancy belt giving him all his powers, it would be a very unlikely circumstance that leaves it to where he uses it in the odd manner he does and everyone else runs around with swords. Oh, and unless some genetic manipulation gets creative, dragons, trolls, goblins, and such never existed and never will. So there are piles in fantasy that can't happen, while Jules Verne "invented" CCTV, SCUBA, and a crapload of other things that didn't exist, but were so plausable it took someone with less imagination than him to invent them later. Most Trek stuff is here, with the exception of FTL travel and matter transport/creation (and anomolies invented as plot devices, but we ignore those). But Star Wars "force" will never exist, so it's fantasy with tech, not sci-fi.

    173. Re:other potential things by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Yay, I got myself a stalker coming back to haunt me with hardly even related discussions! If you thought that linking to that discussion would get me to finally read your unread handful of book chapter-long comments because it really aches you that I brought such a frustrating end to this fascinating debate then think again, failtroll.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    174. Re:other potential things by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      No matter how advanced a civilization is, their space fighter's engines won't make noise in vacuum nor will move like an atmospheric plane.

      You know, very few sci-fi TV shows get this right. Firefly did. Stargate SG-1 occasionally tried (they didn't have that many space battles, but although I remember a few times when they tried to get it right, they often didn't). Babylon 5 made a deliberate choice to have sounds for dramatic effect, but they were VERY good at paying attention to physics otherwise.

      Seems like that only ever applied to the Earth craft - and then only for the first couple seasons. Even at the beginning where they had that battle with the raiders, showing off the inertial flight of the Starfuries - the Raiders weren't following the same physical laws, they were zooming around like they were in an atmosphere.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    175. Re:other potential things by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Star Wars had a lot of fantasy elements like magic, knights, trolls, princesses, etc, and had a lot less scientific jargon than something like Star Trek. I would still consider Star Wars a blend of sci fi and fantasy, but definitely more in the future fantasy camp.

      But it takes place "A long time ago"...

      Turn in... your card...

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    176. Re:other potential things by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Because almost every Fantasy story and almost every science fiction story are just settings. They could be swapped with little difficulty.

      Almost every Sci-Fi story has some 'magic' technology.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    177. Re:other potential things by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      I don't believe all sci-fi happens in the future. I believe there are a few stories that explore the origin of life on earth for instance or time travel into the past.

      Battlestar Galactica, for example.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    178. Re:other potential things by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      I believe this is extremely slow, and usually only done if you're becalmed or have no sails/masts left. I recently read 'Six Frigates', about the original U.S. Navy frigates, and apparently it was occasionally used to get a bit of extra speed, as when Constitution escaped a British squadron.

      Interesting, when checking to make sure I had my facts straight for this post, I found this:
      The Captain's writings about the incident. Very interesting if you like this sort of thing.

      My own guess is that the writers for Star Trek took 'warp' more from physics or other science fiction, rather than nautical usage, but who knows?

    179. Re:other potential things by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      We all know what SoyFy Green is made from...

    180. Re:other potential things by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      I've heard it mentioned on Penny-Arcade, I think, but never knew anything about it until now. Like I said in the post, it wasn't a very original or deep idea; it was mainly a foil for highlighting SF/Fantasy as a spectrum rather than fully distinct genres.

      I love the term "handwavium"! Amusingly enough, the first draft of my history was even wackier: the tech was invented by servants of the Great Old Ones on a distant planet, a splinter faction of which used it to escape from their rule to live freely Earth (temporarily--Cthulhu naturally found them, who are now us, and bides his time beneath the waves). That version with its rebellion on a distant planet mirrored the Anarchy Online back story even more closely. I scrapped it because I thought it downplayed the tech flavor too much, but now I think it would have been even more interesting for the discussion since it further muddies the waters with yet another brand as well as introducing aspects of horror, another genre that can be hard to pin down.

    181. Re:other potential things by lgw · · Score: 1

      It's not the plotline but the quality of prose and the character arcs that makes Tolkien's writing good. The man could (and probably did) spend three pages telling you what the characters had for lunch, and it would be an entertaining read. Of course, that's also why many readers find LoTR impenetrable.

      Or did you really think Gollum's fall into the fires of Mt Doom was accidental?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    182. Re:other potential things by Zarf · · Score: 1

      I do consider BSG sci-fi ... but I consider Star Wars Syfy. Ironic, I know.

      --
      [signature]
    183. Re:other potential things by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Stephenson's Baroque Cycle books were set in the 18th century, and I would consider them science fiction (or any other of about half a dozen genres). Some steampunk might fit into that category as well...using scientific principles and technology as plot devices in an examination of society and humanity.

      If we surpass a science fiction story in either technology that we can make in the real world, or stated time period of the story, does it all of a sudden become non-sci fi?

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    184. Re:other potential things by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Before, it used to be called Speculative Fiction.

    185. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Science fiction is set in the future (presuming we can invent the technologies showcased).

      Fantasy is set in the past (presuming that knowledge of dragons, elves and such has been lost) or in a parallel universe (so long as there is no bridging between parallel universes - then it becomes science fiction).

      Neither is a subset of the other - both a parallel genres within creative fiction.

    186. Re:other potential things by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      enough mingling between SF and fantasy that makes it hard to pin down the genre of many stories and a lot of it depends on what you, individually, think is possible or plausible

      Exactly. Take the Pern books for example. If you read the first one, you have people riding giant dragons in a medevil type society fighting flaming death from the skies. Clearly "Fantasy". But if you keep reading the series, it turns out they were colonists who arrived on that planet in a space-ship, the flaming death from the skies are broken off pieces from a comet-like body that peroidicly orbits close to their planet, the dragons were geneticly engineered from smaller flying creatures, and the society was just the technological level they fell to after having to deal with the periodic comet passes. Clearly Sci-Fi. So does that retroactively make the first book Science Fiction too? If I can't tell the difference between the genres after reading an entire book, I put it to you that there really isn't much of difference to begin with.

    187. Re:other potential things by Vastad · · Score: 1

      I can't claim to have discovered the term "handwavium". I saw it on a /tg/ thread on the billionth discussion about Warhammer 40K fluff. I immediately had this mental picture of a DM with an apathetic expression on his face, lazily waving his hand in the face of an irate player demanding that the fluff be internally consistent. I adopted the term forthwith.

      Back on-topic though, I agree with your idea that SF/Fantasy can be a spectrum, not two utterly separate sets of a Venn diagram. All I need do is point one towards one of my favourite collections of fluff: Shadowrun.
      A dragon for President of UCAS who gets assassinated JFK-style, a German dragon who ignores magic and prefers to surf the net (as if the stereotype of Germans and technology stopped merely at species boundaries, "Vorsprung durch Drachen" anyone?), Elves taking over Ireland, being arrogant and pretty and driving Maseratis and holding investment portfolios, Corporate Mages ("Did you get the memo?", "My imp ate it, sorry."), industrial waste and urbanization are so potent it actually manifests animist tendencies i.e. there are toxic waste shamans. It was pretty solid right until I lost track somewhere before 4th edition.

    188. Re:other potential things by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Yay, I got myself a stalker coming back to haunt me

      hahahaha, such an ego, you think this is about you.

      with hardly even related discussions!

      riigghht, I talked about some conceptualised science fiction in science. You said "I hate it when scifi losers act like they have the monopoly on imagination" and "I bet you most of your fellow scifi loser friends from school became shit like accountants" and "Where would we be without you scifi loser type guys?" . Fucking Hilarious, two days later this is on the front of slashdot, ha ha

      finally read your

      oh, I didn't actually care if *you* read it, but some other science fiction fans might and laugh at your humiliation, Get it?

      fascinating debate then think again, failtroll.

      such an ego, but I can see it's had the result I expected. I thought 'he wouldn't be dumb enough to...' but there you are, giving me a forum to extend your discomfort for entertainment, and in case you forgot...

      Hint: If you don't resort to ad hominem attacks people will have an intelligent conversation with you.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    189. Re:other potential things by carlzum · · Score: 1

      :P good point, here's my card. I promise to limit my television viewing to reality shows and buy a subscription to Us Magazine.

    190. Re:other potential things by bandmassa · · Score: 1

      Who ever said publishers and distributors were imaginative or intelligent? If they were imaginatively intelligent enough to correctly categorise fantasy and scifi separately, they'd write books, not publish them ;-)

      --
      "I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
    191. Re:other potential things by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Back on-topic though, I agree with your idea that SF/Fantasy can be a spectrum, not two utterly separate sets of a Venn diagram.

      Back off-topic again, I utterly despise Venn diagrams. I'm not entirely sure why, but I recall loathing the "compare and contrast!" exercises in grade school, and to this day I refuse to get a MasterCard solely because of their symbol.

      Perhaps this deep-seated hatred for the Venn diagram is rooted in my distaste for viewing things as black-and-white, or maybe it's the other way around.

    192. Re:other potential things by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Who fucking cares, get over it, loser. lol.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    193. Re:other potential things by MrKaos · · Score: 1
      Why when your discomfort makes me roflwtime?

      If you don't like the taste of your own belligerence, then keep your mouth shut to admit you are my bitch, bitch. lol.

      or just keep responding and be even more my bitch, bitch. lol.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    194. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Science fiction and fantasy are both thought experiments of the form: if the rules (or the state of things) were different in this way, what would happen.

      The difference is that Science fiction has known rules that it must follow (constraints imposed by our universe), whereas fantasy has none. A fantasy story cane make-up any random rules it feels like creating, such as in Harry Potter where conservation of energy/matter is violated every other page.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    195. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I think you're trying to draw a line in the sand that doesn't exist

      The line is clear, and can be delineated by asking a simple question, "Does this story violate the constraints imposed by our universe?" If no it's science fiction. If yes it's fantasy fiction.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    196. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      P.S.

      Your Harry Potter history is entertaining, but still just fantasy fiction. The wand-shaped "machines" they carry violate the conservation of energy/matter. They generate huge amounts of destructive energy (fireballs, lightning, et cetera) without consuming any kind of fuel. QED a violation. QED fantasy fiction.

      You also ignored the fact that Harry and his friends can cast energy without their wands, er... machines. So that's yet another conservation violation that makes me categorize it as fantasy fiction, not science.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    197. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>the dragons were geneticly engineered from smaller flying creatures

      And there's the flaw that makes this fantasy fiction, not science. A 10,000 pound dragon could not be carried by those tiny wings. He would be like an ostrich - permanently grounded.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    198. Re:other potential things by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I'm not buying it.

      As I said elsewhere if the answer to the question, "Does the story violate constraints imposed by our universe?" and the answer is "yes" then you're dealing with Fantasy fiction, not science. That doesn't mean it's not enjoyable - I love Star Trek - but I have always classified it as Fantasy fiction. Especially when Geordi waves his magic wand, er... tricorder and adjusts the phase-time-space constant on the doohicky, and "hocus pocus" everybody is saved. That's magic. That's fantasy.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    199. Re:other potential things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't consider a story where a young neophyte seeks the help from an old master(s) and a group of more practical rouges in order to rescue a princess from a dark wizard's castle to be Science Fiction? Even when through his travails the young man becomes a magician-knight and goes on to defeat the evil emperor and his evil empire in order to save the world and live happily ever after?

      I mean how much more science fiction can you get in a story?

    200. Re:other potential things by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      You didn't read closely enough. The wands are (in my hypothetical history) ritualistic, serving the purpose of channeling intent to the nanomachines inside the human body. The wands' elevated status is a result cultural conditioning in the wizards that use them; they're really just nice-looking sticks. "Carry" in the first sentence is ambiguous, but "closed beta becoming open (through sexual promiscuity, naturally)" is the clue that unlocks the context.

      Energy is trickier, I'll admit. I suppose you won't let me get away with saying "non-local quantum-catalyst energy teleportation" and scribbling some pseudomath? =) Still, with all the weirdness going on at the quantum level and the development of new ideas such as string theory or (my personal favorite) the holographic universe, I'd wager that something like it is indeed theoretically possible.

      To avoid multiposting, I'll respond to your other comment here as well.

      The line is clear, and can be delineated by asking a simple question, "Does this story violate the constraints imposed by our universe?" If no it's science fiction. If yes it's fantasy fiction.

      If that's the line, it may be clear but it is also mobile, since works will be crossing from SF to fantasy as old models are disproved (someone mentioned Clarke's "A Fall of Moondust;" I'd include War of the Worlds) and from fantasy to SF as new principles are discovered. So the line may be clear at any one point in time, but it will always be dancing (IMO anyway; perhaps you're more optimistic about our knowledge of the universe than I am).

      Additionally, there are things that are speculated that we don't know enough about to declare them to be possible or impossible. Mind uploads, which I mentioned before, are a prime example. How would you classify fiction that deals with the Singularity, or cyberpunk such as Neuromancer? There will always be books that some (most, in this case) classify as SF and others as fantasy; at least with the spectrum viewpoint these are reconcilable.

      Finally, by your edict, any fiction that is not theoretically impossible is SF. This would include romance novels and detective stories and Tom Clancy books. There is without a doubt something more to what the vast majority of people recognize as SF; some element that does not often exist in romance novels. Whatever that element is, its characteristics are more closely associated with fantasy than with any other genre of fiction: there may be a vast difference between dragons and rayguns, but they are more closely associated than either dragons or rayguns and, say, a terrorist plot to knock out the power grid. I would describe that element as being "fantastic." Heinlein's libertarian lunar prison society in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," while not strictly a violation of the constraints imposed by our universe, is certainly a fantastic idea (here, in a few senses of the word)!

      Given all this, I have no problem with the separate distinctions of SF and fantasy because they are generally useful in knowing what kind of story you're getting into; I just don't see the value of attempting to Once And For All pin down the "border cases" when the reality is that both labels are just conceptual conventions applied to individual stories whose character and content is as varied as their authors.

      All fiction is fantasy. Some is just more honest about it.
      - Gene Wolfe

      Feel free to respond. I don't believe either one of us is willing to give up on his perspective, but the conversation can still be interesting.

    201. Re:other potential things by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      And there's the flaw that makes this fantasy fiction, not science. A 10,000 pound dragon could not...

      --

      THE BIRTH OF BABYLON 5 (the original notes from 1988) -

      Uh huh....So explain to me exactly what the scientific basis behind the "SF" show Babylon-5's telepathy is.

      Or how about Dune where they actually used drug-induced telepathy and mind-magic to pilot spaceships around, and had scientifically impossibly large worms (which apparently you could wear babies of like an exoskeleton and jump around like the incredible hulk)?

      If the principle is that it just takes one impossible element to chuck a work into the "Fantasy" bin, I suppose I could go with that. I can then go through about %90 of all "SF" and chuck it into "Fantasy" too on some technicality. Then we can get rid of that vestigal "SF" label and call it all "Fantasy".

      Works for me.

    202. Re:other potential things by martinX · · Score: 1

      When I re-read LOTR there was this whole section on Tom Bombadil that I (and Peter Jackson) had forgotten about. It just went on and on and on...

      The guy had talent. He also loved his own writing, I think. What he also needed was a ruthless editor.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    203. Re:other potential things by svick · · Score: 1

      The line is clear, and can be delineated by asking a simple question, "Does this story violate the constraints imposed by our universe?" If no it's science fiction. If yes it's fantasy fiction.

      Except that we don't know what the constraints are, and it's quite possible we never will. Good example is FTL travel - it may be possible, but according to our current knowledge probably isn't.

    204. Re:other potential things by lgw · · Score: 1

      That's certainly true, but "one does not edit Tolkien". No one had the balls to stand up to such an authority on language on editorial issues. It's probably just as well: good editing might have produced a more accessible, marketable work at the expense of the countless details and appendices that made it a great work.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  2. The currency of the future is ... by soporific16 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... Kudos (Iain M Banks, The Algebraist). He also said that money was a sign of poverty (The State of the Art). And yes, this was WAY before the current economic crisis.

    1. Re:The currency of the future is ... by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He also said that money was a sign of poverty (The State of the Art).

      Nope, it's a sign of TERRORISM!

      Man detained, threatened and abused by TSA for flying with $4700 in cash
      Here's a recording of Steve Bierfeldt, a US citizen who tried to board a domestic airplane while carrying $4700 in cash, and was detained by the TSA and subjected to abusive language and threats [...] The TSA agents threatened to turn him over to the DEA. He was returning from a Ron Paul event in St Louis, MO, and worked for the campaign. The cash on his person arose from sales of t-shirts and stickers at the event.

    2. Re:The currency of the future is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reputation as money? Doctorow was there first.

    3. Re:The currency of the future is ... by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      The term you're looking for is whuffie.

    4. Re:The currency of the future is ... by squidfood · · Score: 4, Funny

      Iain M Banks

      Speaking of which, let's not forget the term Meatfucker.

    5. Re:The currency of the future is ... by sayfawa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh, how I wish I lived in the Culture. Damn you fuckers, make contact already! Sigh.

      Anyway, if you haven't heard of it, Cory Doctorow's Down and Out In the Magic Kingdom goes into much more detail about a possible post-scarcity society, where the currency is kind of like /.'s Karma, only it works.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    6. Re:The currency of the future is ... by naoursla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      David Gerrold predicted the unit of currency in the future would be the calorie.

  3. If it's anything, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Let's just hope klingon isn't added to a future revision of this list.

    1. Re:If it's anything, by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Let's just hope klingon isn't added to a future revision of this list.

      Not likely unless dingleberry is no longer considered a 'rad' word.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  4. Contra Terrene by Joehonkie · · Score: 1

    Contra Terrene (or CT/seetee) is such a great word, and is technically more correct than "antimatter" (since positrons and such aren't the "opposite" of matter, but rather another state of it). For some reason I just love that one. Also "Tellurian" as a word for people from the planet Earth (Tellus). Earthling is weaksauce.

    1. Re:Contra Terrene by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Also "Tellurian" as a word for people from the planet Earth (Tellus). Earthling is weaksauce.

      I prefer Terran.

      But if we did want a name for people from Tellus, wouldn't Tellosian be better? It at least fits grammatically.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Contra Terrene by hazem · · Score: 1

      Also "Tellurian" as a word for people from the planet Earth (Tellus).

      Thanks for that! I have wondered what "Encyclopedia Tellurica" from the beginning of I-Robot could mean.

    3. Re:Contra Terrene by david.given · · Score: 1

      Earthling is weaksauce.

      One of Piers Anthony's books --- written back before he discovered that writing crap was more profitable than writing good stuff --- had all the aliens referring to humans as 'Earthian'. Admittedly, that book (The ESP Worm) is largely a spoof...

    4. Re:Contra Terrene by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Given what kind of social pressures are mostly likely to result in some cultures never leaving Earth, I'd say that the phrase "first world citizen" will take on completely the opposite meaning in the future.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    5. Re:Contra Terrene by Kazymyr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Earthican" is better. /futurama

      --
      I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
    6. Re:Contra Terrene by darth+dickinson · · Score: 1

      Also "Tellurian" as a word for people from the planet Earth (Tellus). Earthling is weaksauce.

      I prefer Tau'ri, personally...

    7. Re:Contra Terrene by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Ahhhh, from "Seetee Ship" and "Seetee Shock"(?)... so long ago... I loved those two books when I was a kid.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    8. Re:Contra Terrene by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I thought the proper term was "Teegeeackan". (ducks)

    9. Re:Contra Terrene by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Also "Tellurian" as a word for people from the planet Earth (Tellus). Earthling is weaksauce.

      I prefer Terran.

      It's Solomani for me.

      But if we did want a name for people from Tellus, wouldn't Tellosian be better? It at least fits grammatically.

      I'm still waiting for the SF story that calls stuff from Venus "Venerial" rather than "Venusian".

    10. Re:Contra Terrene by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you keep stroking your ego, you're going to need some tissues

  5. Not a word, but a phrase by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    Slashdot effect

    As exemplified by that poor website everyone is now clicking on.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Not a word, but a phrase by Eythian · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's probably for the best. If you open the link in Firefox on Ubuntu 8.10 (32- or 64-bit), gnome-panel will segfault, restart, segfault, restart... until you change the tab that firefox is showing.

      Bug report, and here

    2. Re:Not a word, but a phrase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the correct term, flash crowd, is from sci-fi.

    3. Re:Not a word, but a phrase by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 1

      It's probably for the best. If you open the link in Firefox on Ubuntu 8.10 (32- or 64-bit), gnome-panel will segfault, restart, segfault, restart... until you change the tab that firefox is showing.

      Bug report [launchpad.net], and here [launchpad.net]

      Wow. I tried to visit the site yesterday when it was down, and just got through today and my panel did exactly that. I then went to the bug reports you listed, but I get a "Forbidden" message:

      "Not allowed here

      Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.

      I know bugzilla.mozilla.org doesn't allow referrers from slashdot, so I tried copying the links and visiting the pages directly, and I got the same message. Even just searching launchpad for their bug IDs is forbidden. What the hell?

      --
      We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
    4. Re:Not a word, but a phrase by Eythian · · Score: 1

      It's a possible security issue is my guess. Depending on what's actually causing the segfault, it may be exploitable. Also, some of those bug reports may include crash dumps which makes them private by default (as those dumps can include sensitive information.)

  6. Futurists by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure, SF writers named things that had no name, but that were theorized (by themselves or others).

    Some of those names stuck.

    But what about all the names that sucked and never stuck? In other words, throw a million darts and surely some will hit the bullseye.

    I'm coming up empty right now, but there have to be some obvious ones... like pretty much any scifi term that begins with "med-" or "medi-".

    And, of course, as we all know from xkcd, the quality of the fantasy [sci-fi?] novel is inversely proportional to the number of made-up words.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    1. Re:Futurists by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      I'm drawing a blank too...

      Well there's the Space Gun from Brave New World that was going to shoot people into space, that never caught on because the physics weren't understood by the writer at the time.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    2. Re:Futurists by !coward · · Score: 1

      The xkcd comic the OP's referring to, or a similar reference, in six parts, no less, on Penny Arcade.

      Now, obviously if falls under the category of "pulling numbers out of one's ass", but it does seem to make sense that whenever an author feels the need to make up too many words for his/her fantasy/sci-fi universe, it's probably because they lack a good plot to begin with..

      I think the point of this story, though, is less about the coining of words or terms, but the fact that some concepts were actually envisioned (sometimes, pretty damn thoroughly) first in the realm of fiction and only later translated into science or actual technologies. I find it far more interesting that someone envisioned the role of a genetic engineer all those years before genetics really took off, than the fact that they managed to coin the term for it. I'm less impressed by the coining of "meme" or "memetics", than I am about the implications that the study of human-propagated "stories" have on anthropology.

    3. Re:Futurists by westlake · · Score: 1
      Well there's the Space Gun from Brave New World that was going to shoot people into space, that never caught on because the physics weren't understood by the writer at the time.

      I suppose that depends on what you mean by a "gun."

      The launch track - the linear accelerator - is at least plausible.

      It's an elegant and economical solution to simply launch the manned capsule and not the step-rocket.

    4. Re:Futurists by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      But what about all the names that sucked and never stuck? In other words, throw a million darts and surely some will hit the bullseye.

      All the others will become Treknobabble.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    5. Re:Futurists by xouumalperxe · · Score: 1

      I'm coming up empty right now, but there have to be some obvious ones... like pretty much any scifi term that begins with "med-" or "medi-".

      Thankfully, midi-chlorians were a near miss.

  7. What is the Klingon word for loneliness? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Oh yes...maaaarrrrdoc

  8. Forgot to mention by PriceIke · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cyberspace. William Gibson, Neuromancer

    --
    It's not a lie. It's the truth with lossy compression.
    1. Re:Forgot to mention by glwtta · · Score: 4, Funny

      Cyberspace. William Gibson, Neuromancer

      They said "science", not "online wankery".

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    2. Re:Forgot to mention by bwcbwc · · Score: 1

      Wasn't Rudy Rucker the one who came up with "wetware"?

      You can always tell the snobbish, stuck-up zombies from the low-class, plebian ones. They're the ones moan "weeeeetwaaaarrre" instead of "braaaainnnnzzzz".

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    3. Re:Forgot to mention by lobiusmoop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So why are 'worm' and 'virus' (in the context of computing) on the list?

      --
      "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    4. Re:Forgot to mention by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Cyberspace. William Gibson, Neuromancer

      "And they never let me forget it." -- William Gibson, Wild Palms

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    5. Re:Forgot to mention by beowulf · · Score: 1

      Cyberspace. William Gibson, Neuromancer 1984

      Or perhaps you're referring to the term cyberspace. First used in published form by Vernor Vinge, True Names 1981

    6. Re:Forgot to mention by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This may surprise you, but "Neuromancer" was blogged on dead trees as was the tradition for many such ancient works. It is such an old story that it predates even the use of the term "blog". And it comes at a time when online wankery was reserved only for the academic and military elite of some of the most powerful countries in the world.

    7. Re:Forgot to mention by Fallen+Seraph · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cyberspace. William Gibson, Neuromancer 1984

      Or perhaps you're referring to the term cyberspace. First used in published form by Vernor Vinge, True Names 1981

      Actually, in True Names it was never called cyberspace, if I recall. Though it was the first fully thought out description of it, I think they called it Other Plane or something like that if my memory serves me correctly.

      But Neuromancer wasn't the first book to use the term cyberspace anyway... That was the short story Burning Chrome, written by William Gibson in 1982, which takes place in the same universe as the Sprawl Trilogy (Neuromancer and it's sequels) as well as the short story Johnny Mnemonic.

      So really it's:
      Cyberspace. William Gibson, Burning Chrome 1982

    8. Re:Forgot to mention by tzot · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, I prefer the cry of vegetarian zombies: "GRAINS!"

      --
      I speak England very best
    9. Re:Forgot to mention by RDW · · Score: 1

      This term isn't in 'True Names' as far as I can tell:

      http://web.archive.org/web/20051127010734/http://home.comcast.net/~kngjon/truename/truename.html

      though of course a similar concept is there. Gibson actually names the 'Cyberspace Seven' matrix simulator in 'Burning Chrome', a couple of years before 'Neuromancer':

      http://web.bentley.edu/empl/c/rcrooks/courses/350s96/gibson.html

    10. Re:Forgot to mention by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It seems to me that John Brunner wrote about a lot of things Gibson gets credited for... man he was right about so many things - I'm waiting for the first reality show with kids walking a plank over a shark tank while their folks watch and count their dough... won't be long now.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    11. Re:Forgot to mention by anarche · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not the point of the article though. Gibson created (amalgamated) the word cyberspace, but it wasn't in Neuromancer - its was Burning Chrome. The concept behind cyberspace (artificial reality) was first espoused by Plato, before the birth of Christ.

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    12. Re:Forgot to mention by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Well I think the topic was computer mediated reality. Or did Plato get a computer before the rest of us?

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    13. Re:Forgot to mention by city · · Score: 1

      and didn't his predecessor Neal Stephenson come up with Metaverse in Snow Crash? Or has that word not made it into science yet? I guess we'll have to give it a few years, probably until someone finds something relevant to do in Second Life besides dick around.

      --
      I am a v1ral sig. Plse c0py me and h3lp me spread. Thank y0u?
    14. Re:Forgot to mention by khallow · · Score: 1

      The topic was mediated reality. Computers are just the means.

    15. Re:Forgot to mention by nick_davison · · Score: 1

      Entertainingly, Autodesk tried to trademark Gibson's term cyberspace. Apparently they couldn't understand why Gibson thought they should pay him a royalty to use his intellectual property just as they expect others to pay them a royalty to use theirs. After spending a little money on lawyers, they settled for "Autodesk Cyberspace" and he realized he wasn't going to get much further even if he spent a lot more.

      Not one to quite gracefully, Gibson trademarked "Eric Gullichsen" in response.

    16. Re:Forgot to mention by julesh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The concept behind cyberspace (artificial reality) was first espoused by Plato, before the birth of Christ.

      I think you may be slightly misrepresenting the ideas of Plato here, which essentially boiled down to mathematical truths being as real as the world we can see and touch. I don't think he believed in creating a new reality, i.e. an "artificial reality", just that there was another reality than our own and that we could explore it through mathematics.

    17. Re:Forgot to mention by GileadGreene · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Er... Snow Crash was first published in around 1992. Some 8 years after Neuromancer. So I fail to see how Stephenson could be a "predecessor" of Gibson.

    18. Re:Forgot to mention by city · · Score: 1

      That's because I meant successor...

      --
      I am a v1ral sig. Plse c0py me and h3lp me spread. Thank y0u?
    19. Re:Forgot to mention by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Mmmm, no, it wasn't. The topic was words from SF entering into mainstream scientific use. The example, or subtopic, in question was "cyberspace" - see the "cyber" part of it - and where it originated? General mediated reality was something you introduced for you own purposes. Ooops, I see I've used up my quota of troll food so you may have the last word.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    20. Re:Forgot to mention by khallow · · Score: 1

      Mmmm, no, it wasn't. The topic was words from SF entering into mainstream scientific use. The example, or subtopic, in question was "cyberspace" - see the "cyber" part of it - and where it originated? General mediated reality was something you introduced for you own purposes. Ooops, I see I've used up my quota of troll food so you may have the last word.

      Thank you for the fine dining. My point though was that the implementation isn't the important aspect. It's not significant that computers end up being the devices that do the heavy lifting of simulating reality.

  9. How about Waldo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's an engineering term for a remote controlled robotic arm, derived from a Heinlein story.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldo_(device)

    1. Re:How about Waldo? by Ceiynt · · Score: 1

      It's also this guy in a red and white stripped shirt everyone is looking for. Last I heard, he shacked up with this lady named Carmen from San Diego. Rumors of a child have yet to be confirmed, as even Carmen has said she thought she had a child, but has no idea where in the world it went.

    2. Re:How about Waldo? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's an engineering term for a remote controlled robotic arm, derived from a Heinlein story.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldo_(device)

      Yes, but what good is such a thing if you can never find it? It will never catch on.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    3. Re:How about Waldo? by ch1lly · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you posted this, because I was just thinking: "Where's Waldo?"

    4. Re:How about Waldo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I think you mean
      Teledildonics

    5. Re:How about Waldo? by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      It's an engineering term for a remote controlled robotic arm, derived from a Heinlein story.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldo_(device)

      Didn't Optimus Prime have one of those?

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  10. I'm hoping for... by greg_barton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "My God, it's full of stars!"

    1. Re:I'm hoping for... by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "My God, it's full of stars!"

      As others have noted when looking at pictures like the Hubble Deep Fields, Sir Arthur got it wrong. What Dave Bowman should have said was "My God, it's full of galaxies!"

      I have the same reaction whenever I wander around the Virgo Cluster with my big Dob.

      ...laura

    2. Re:I'm hoping for... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I have the same reaction whenever I wander around
      the Virgo Cluster with my big Dob.

      ...laura

      if you weren't a girl I'd assume you were talking about something else

    3. Re:I'm hoping for... by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "What Dave Bowman should have said was "My God, it's full of galaxies!""

      Yeah, OK.

      His on-board computer has just killed all the other members of the human crew on his mission. He's all by himself hundreds of millions of miles from earth realizing that he can't possibly survive the journey back. He's about to land his spacecraft on an object of alien origin that's about the size of a skyscraper . . . suddenly the surface falls away, he's looking down an infinite corridor that defies perspective and he begins accelerating with a force of a million gravities. He manages to blurt out one short sentence, and you're bashing the guy because he wasn't 100% technically accurate in his terminology????

      Glad you're not my boss.

       

    4. Re:I'm hoping for... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      "My God, it's full of stars!"

      Must be Hollywood!

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    5. Re:I'm hoping for... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Lots of girls like big dogs.

      (I have 10" Dobsonian myself :-))

  11. What about Arthur C. Clarke by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:What about Arthur C. Clarke by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wasn't that a popular science essay rather than science fiction though?

    2. Re:What about Arthur C. Clarke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or space elevator.

    3. Re:What about Arthur C. Clarke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't invent the term. He may have written about it before it existed. But geostationary orbits were known already, and the use of the word "satellite" wasn't new either. That is to say, it was not a neologism, but it was probably patentable.

    4. Re:What about Arthur C. Clarke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wasn't a science fiction work, it was a paper in Wireless World.

  12. Well the way things are going by just_another_sean · · Score: 3, Funny

    I predict Frack, Frell and Frag are coming soon...

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    1. Re:Well the way things are going by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone mod this guy up

    2. Re:Well the way things are going by Jim+Hall · · Score: 1

      I predict Frack, Frell and Frag are coming soon...

      What a load of felgercarb!

      If you watched the original series, you can smile with me. :-)

    3. Re:Well the way things are going by Petrushka · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Frag" comes from military usage, ca. the time of the Vietnam War, not from science fiction.

    4. Re:Well the way things are going by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      you can smile with me.

      :-)

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    5. Re:Well the way things are going by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      Ah, did not know that... Was thinking of Quake when I wrote it . :-)

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    6. Re:Well the way things are going by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      And when you smile, it'll look great thanks to that wonderful tube of toothpaste.

    7. Re:Well the way things are going by Kamineko · · Score: 1

      What a name! It's like some kind of alien law firm.

    8. Re:Well the way things are going by Abreu · · Score: 1

      What a name! It's like some kind of alien law firm.

      Just thinking about that made a shiver run down my spine...

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    9. Re:Well the way things are going by smegged · · Score: 1

      According to modern folk lore the term was coined when soldiers hated their CO and would roll a fragmentation grenade into the COs tent. The CO was "fragged" and everyone walked home through the minefield happy.

    10. Re:Well the way things are going by genner · · Score: 1

      I predict Frack, Frell and Frag are coming soon...

      What a load of felgercarb!

      If you watched the original series, you can smile with me. :-)

      Watch the 80's spinoff and cry with me.
      :(

    11. Re:Well the way things are going by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well "frag" also comes from simply abbreviating the proper term "fragmentary grenade". It was only during the Vietnam War did the word "frag" take on a life of its own.

  13. Warp & Warp Drive by bradgoodman · · Score: 1

    They aren't really really, but scientists have been discussing the reality of them for a while.

  14. Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    We were pretty excited around here when Brave New Words won the Hugo Award. Now that Brave New Words is available in paperback we asked Jeff Prucher, freelance lexicographer and editor for the Oxford English Dictionaryâ(TM)s science fiction project, to revisit the blog. Below are Prucherâ(TM)s picks of words that may seem to come from science, but really originate in science fiction.

    In no particular order:

    1. Robotics. This is probably the most well-known of these, since Isaac Asimov is famous for (among many other things) his three laws of robotics. Even so, I include it because it is one of the only actual sciences to have been first named in a science fiction story (âLiar!â, 1951). Asimov also named the related occupation (roboticist) and the adjective robotic.

    2. Genetic engineering. The other science that received its name from a science fiction story, in this case Jack Williamsonâ(TM)s novel Dragonâ(TM)s Island, which was coincidentally published in the same year as âoeLiar!â The occupation of genetic engineer took a few more years to be named, this time by Poul Anderson.

    3. Zero-gravity/zero-g. A defining feature of life in outer space (sans artificial gravity, of course). The first known use of âoezero-gravityâ is from Jack Binder (better known for his work as an artist) in 1938, and actually refers to the gravityless state of the center of the Earthâ(TM)s core. Arthur C. Clarke gave us âoezero-gâ in his 1952 novel Islands in the Sky.

    4. Deep space. One of the other defining features of outer space is its essential emptiness. In science fiction, this phrase most commonly refers to a region of empty space between stars or that is remote from the home world. E. E. âoeDocâ Smith seems to have coined this phrase in 1934. The more common use in the sciences refers to the region of space outside of the Earthâ(TM)s atmosphere.

    5. Ion drive. An ion drive is a type of spaceship engine that creates propulsion by emitting charged particles in the direction opposite of the one you want to travel. The earliest citation in Brave New Words is again from Jack Williamson (âThe Equilizerâ, 1947). A number of spacecraft have used this technology, beginning in the 1970s.

    6. Pressure suit. A suit that maintains a stable pressure around its occupant; useful in both space exploration and high-altitude flights. This is another one from the fertile mind of E. E. Smith. Curiously, his pressure suits were furred, an innovation not, alas, replicated by NASA.

    7. Virus. Computer virus, that is. Dave Gerrold (of âoeThe Trouble With Tribblesâ fame) was apparently the first to make the verbal analogy between biological viruses and self-replicating computer programs, in his 1972 story âoeWhen Harlie Was One.â

    8. Worm. Another type of self-replicating computer program. So named by John Brunner in his 1975 novel Shockwave Rider.

    9. Gas giant. A large planet, like Jupiter or Neptune, that is composed largely of gaseous material. The first known use of this term is from a story (âSolar Plexusâ) by James Blish; the odd thing about it is that it was first used in a reprint of the story, eleven years after the story was first published. Whether this is because Blish conceived of the term in the intervening years or read it somewhere else, or whether it was in the original manuscript and got edited out is impossible to say at this point.

    1. Re:Text from Google cache by Stele · · Score: 5, Funny

      Interesting that "Belgium" wasn't in the list.

    2. Re:Text from Google cache by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 5, Informative

      Robotics ... Isaac Asimov

      The corpse of Karel Capek seen sulking nearby.

      --
      +0 Meh
    3. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      No civilised society in the galaxy would put that word on such a list . . .

    4. Re:Text from Google cache by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      No Grok? I know that it isn't necessarily a sciency word, but at least it isn't boring like deep space.

    5. Re:Text from Google cache by cbeley · · Score: 1

      Interesting that "Belgium" wasn't in the list.

      Mod parent down! This is unacceptable! Think of the children who read this! You are despicable!

      *Takes away parent's towel*

    6. Re:Text from Google cache by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice that you did not chose a particular order ^^

      Because strictly speaking already the first one is arguable wrong:


      1. Robotics. This is probably the most well-known of these, since Isaac Asimov is famous for (among many other things) his three laws of robotics. Even so, I include it because it is one of the only actual sciences to have been first named in a science fiction story (âLiar!â, 1951). Asimov also named the related occupation (roboticist) and the adjective robotic.

      Robotics comes obviously from Robot. So I said arguable: no one objects that Mr. Asimov coined the term robotics but without the term robot, robotics would not exist.

      The term robot was introduced by Karel apek, in a theater piece: Rossum's Universal Robots (Rossumovi Univerzální Roboti), the original inventor according to wikipedia is his brother, Josef apek.

      angel'o'sphere

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:Text from Google cache by anarche · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, while his brother Josef sits grinning at the irony of your post...

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    8. Re:Text from Google cache by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Informative

      The corpse of Karel Capek seen sulking nearby.

      Capek coined the word "robot". He did not come up with the admittedly derivative word "robotics". Asimov did that.

    9. Re:Text from Google cache by Rog7 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Robotics ... Isaac Asimov

      The corpse of Karel Capek seen sulking nearby.

      Karel Capek's variation of the Czech "robota" was not mechanical in nature, so I'm not sure if it would apply for this list as a scientific term.

      Asimov's Robotics however, was about the science and technology of electrical-mechanical devices.

      It's nit-picking, for sure, but in reference to this particular list, Asimov's usage is the correct one.

    10. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes it one of my favorite words. Migrated from Czech or Russian (robotnik, worker) to English (robot) and back to Russian.

      The only other word that I know of to have made that roundtrip is "bistro" which went from Russian (quickly) to French or English (as a restaurant that serves food quickly) and back to Russian.

    11. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey no swearing on the internet!

    12. Re:Text from Google cache by russotto · · Score: 1

      Asimov may have invented the name "robotics", but isn't it more notable that "robot" itself also comes from SF Rossum's Universal Robots?

    13. Re:Text from Google cache by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      Holy Belgium, Man!!!

      Slashdot should be banned from the sub-ethanet just for mentioning it in a screenplay^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ post!

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    14. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Pioneer aviator Wiley Post invented and patented the pressure suit in the very early 1930s, for use in his high-altitude flights. He, along with Will Rogers, died in a plane crash in 1935. One of his original suits is in the Oklahoma Historical Society's possession, though I don't know whether it's currently on display or in storage.

    15. Re:Text from Google cache by Calmiche · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Okay, Robotics I knew came from Sci-Fi.

      "Positronic" came from Asimov.
      "Waldo" came from a story by Heinlein where a disabled man uses machines to do his work.
      "Grok" is Heinlein tool, though not popular vernacular.
      "Frak and Frell" from Battlestar Galactica
      "Gorrum" from Firefly.
      "Shazbot" from Mork and Mindy. Not sure if this counts, but it's about an alien.
      "Airlock" is from E.E. Smith.
      "Phaser" is from Gene Roddenberry.

      Then there are a lot of compound words that first were combined in Sci-fi. Transhuman, xenobiology, virboknife, visiphone, psychohistory, etc...

    16. Re:Text from Google cache by Fleeced · · Score: 1

      It's true that these words had their basis in sci-fi, but they are perfectly cromulent words, so it's only natural that they embiggen our language.

    17. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was robot.

    18. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The blurb should still have given Capek his credit.

    19. Re:Text from Google cache by julesh · · Score: 1

      The blurb should still have given Capek his credit.

      Well, Capek apparently denied credit for the invention of the word, attributing it to his brother. Where do we stop? I think the first publication that used it in the modern sense is the right point.

    20. Re:Text from Google cache by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Wasn't Frell from that Sci-fi series with Muppets?
      What was the name again?....

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    21. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They took the time to discuss the first use of both Genetic Engineering and Genetic Engineer. The origin of robot itself is far more interesting than someone taking a field "Genetic Engineering" and deciding someone who works in that field is a "Genetic Engineer".

    22. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the ancient automatons that (ancient) Greeks made? I am not speaking of those mythological ones told (Talos, The maids of Hephestus, even Argo's navigations and thinking computer) , but the ones that were designed by Archmedes and the rest of the wacky Inventors (and lost during the Roman and Turkish years only to resurface in Rennasaince)???

    23. Re:Text from Google cache by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      It's nit-picking, for sure, but in reference to this particular list, Asimov's usage is the correct one.

      Also, because people who are interested in building robots with human-like AI are very likely to try and follow Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics, his contribution to the science of robotics is more than just the name.

    24. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farscape

    25. Re:Text from Google cache by iphayd · · Score: 1

      Actually Karel Capek credited his brother Josef for coining the term, he just used it in his play.

    26. Re:Text from Google cache by iphayd · · Score: 1

      Except that Karel Capek had (understandably) no clue as to the direction that robotics would take in the 88 years since R.U.R. premiered.

      I recently saw R.U.R. and there were obvious parallels from what he envisioned and today, except that we do the things in silicon boxes that no-one feels should have rights, and we have yet to come close to any sort of sentience with silicon.

      I would definitely call R.U.R. a science fiction work- Just because it isn't metal and silicon doesn't make it any less so. In fact, when I refer to what I saw, I call it a precursor to Battlestar Galactica.

    27. Re:Text from Google cache by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      The concept of robot does not necessarily imply what you think it does. For example, Asimov himself introduced robots in his books that either adapted flesh and blood to their forms and even those who were indistinguishable from humans. Furthermore, the key ingredient of a robot in Asimov's world was a "positronic brain," further linking the "human/organic" concept and "robot." So if he is the inventor of the word (he isn't but for the sake of argument lets assume he is) wouldn't his concepts and writing have some bearing on the denotation of the word?

      Similarly, have you watched Battlestar Galactica recently? Those Cylons don't look like trash cans with blinkenlights any more. They look human!

      Don't you find it odd as dabblers in robotics extrapolate and advance their ideas they more closely approach and resemble the Capek's original vision? It sounds to me as if he was simply ahead of the curve.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    28. Re:Text from Google cache by shamus · · Score: 1

      The name is Farscape and yes, Frell is from there.

      Also I think it is Goram, not Gorrum, from Firefly.

      --

      What's worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows, and who cares.

    29. Re:Text from Google cache by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering how much robotics research is done with DARPA funding, I think that is probably wishful thinking.

  15. Grok? by holden+caufield · · Score: 1

    That one seems to have entered the popular lexicon.

    --
    I'll create an amusing sig when I have something meaningful to post.
    1. Re:Grok? by Utini420 · · Score: 1

      Only among those who do not kiss girls and those who kiss multiple girls simultaneously.

      --
      A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation.
    2. Re:Grok? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Yes, but does anyone think it originated in a Science journal?

    3. Re:Grok? by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 3, Funny

      My wife says "grok", and she normally only kisses one girl at a time. :-P

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    4. Re:Grok? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      That one seems to have entered the popular lexicon.

      I don't think that word means what you think it means...

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    5. Re:Grok? by unitron · · Score: 1

      ...those who kiss multiple girls simultaneously.

      A concept which is both science fiction and fantasy, assuming the usual definitions of "kiss" and "lips".

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    6. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's got a point, though. Free love was a big theme in the novel.

    7. Re:Grok? by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Funny

      Grok is an old maritime word. It means watered down rum, and was served the Royal British Navy to keep sailors from mutineering and to give them some essential vitamins. Sailors could demand a minimum of two cups of grok every day.

    8. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid not. The word you're thinking of is grog, which itself is a shortened version of "grogram".

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grog

      Grogram if a form of fabric - follow the link for more info.

      http://dictionary.die.net/grogram

      The way I heard it, which there is a bit of corroboration out on the net, is that an admiral who used to water down the rum. He was known as Old Grogram due to his preference for clothing of that fabric.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Vernon

      Turn in ye pirate badge, me hearty!

    9. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grok is an old maritime word. It means watered down rum, and was served the Royal British Navy to keep sailors from mutineering and to give them some essential vitamins. Sailors could demand a minimum of two cups of grok every day.

      Grog......not Grok.......

    10. Re:Grok? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Isn't that 'grog?'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    11. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean grog.

    12. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grok is an old maritime word. It means watered down rum, and was served the Royal British Navy to keep sailors from mutineering and to give them some essential vitamins. Sailors could demand a minimum of two cups of grok every day.

      Perhaps you mean "grog"?

    13. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's "Grog".

    14. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely you mean grog...

    15. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you mean grog

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grog

      grok is almost certainly a Heinleinism

    16. Re:Grok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nay, groG is the word which ye seek, landlubber.

  16. Great Scott! by brian0918 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Doc, Doc... what the hell is a jiggawatt?!"

    I don't know about you, but I tend toward this word whenever the possibility arises.

    1. Re:Great Scott! by oldhack · · Score: 1

      "Doc, Doc... what the hell is a jiggawatt?!"

      Power required to inflict megahurt.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    2. Re:Great Scott! by david.given · · Score: 1

      "Doc, Doc... what the hell is a jiggawatt?!"

      Approximately 0.00004 kg m^5 s^-3 (that'll be 5 ton inch^5 s^-3 to Americans).

      Oh, wait, you said jigga, not jigger...

    3. Re:Great Scott! by Mt._Honkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Doc, Doc... what the hell is a jiggawatt?!"

      Not to burst the joke, but I think Doc Brown and company were saying "gigawatt". The soft "g" sound is a perfectly valid pronunciation. The prefix "giga-" has the same Greek origin as "giant".

      --

      Don't Bogart the fish sticks
    4. Re:Great Scott! by unitron · · Score: 3, Informative

      They were saying "gigawatt" correctly, it comes from "gigantic", and it was only in the '80s and '90s that a lot of people saw the "giga" prefix in print, probably in relation to computers, without having ever heard it, unlike people who dealt with radio frequencies in the billions of Hertz (cycles per second) or power in the billions of Watts had done, and proceeded to mispronounce it and spread that mispronounciation to others.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    5. Re:Great Scott! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Approximately 0.00004 kg m^5 s^-3

      Somehow I'm having trouble visualizing a cubic second...

    6. Re:Great Scott! by Another,+completely · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, it's only Americans who ever thought of pronouncing it that way. Germans have been saying giga with a hard G right through, and apparently it was a German who proposed the prefix in the first place. Interesting summary at Wikipedia. When I saw Back to the Future originally, it took me a few seconds to understand that he meant gigawatt (it's strange the details you can remember), so I must have been using the hard G pronunciation myself in 1985.

    7. Re:Great Scott! by unitron · · Score: 1

      Well, I heard RF techs saying "jigaHertz" back in the early '70s.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  17. What a waste by dvh.tosomja · · Score: 1

    Whole article for just 9 words?

  18. This one is certain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Shai-Hulud."

    I have foreseen it.

  19. HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! by Murpster · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Geeks like science fiction? STOP THE PRESSES!!!

  20. Waldo by Lord+Grey · · Score: 0, Redundant

    What about waldo, coined by Robert A. Heinlein? That seems like a good candidate for this list.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
    1. Re:Waldo by genner · · Score: 0, Redundant

      What about waldo, coined by Robert A. Heinlein? That seems like a good candidate for this list.

      Yeah where is waldo?
      Someone had to say it.....

  21. time to server-meltdown by wolf12886 · · Score: 1

    /. should start keeping track of times to server-meltdown for these linked stories.

    Improving /.'s uptime would be good, but I guess knocking down other sights until the bar is lowered to our level works too

  22. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems unlikely to me that the first time anyone put the words zero and gravity together in a sentence was in a work of fiction. Even if that were true, I doubt that was the inspiration for the term as it has come to be used, since it is an obvious/accurate description of a physical condition. Not a lot of sourcing to show that any of these were the first usages...

    1. Re:Really? by Quothz · · Score: 1

      It seems unlikely to me that the first time anyone put the words zero and gravity together in a sentence was in a work of fiction.

      I agree. Using "zero-gravity" or "zero-g" instead of "0g" is hardly coining a phrase. I'm not sure of the origin of "g" for gravity, but I'm sure Newton used it.

  23. Some words were just waiting to be discovered. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    I guess a couple of these probably always existed, just took a long time before the need was there. Asimov didn't realise he invented the term Robotics until he was credited with in in a dictionary. He just assumed that was the correct term.

    It makes me wonder whether we'd still have these terms if these particular writers hadn't used them.

    1. Re:Some words were just waiting to be discovered. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asimov may have expanded on it, but the term "robot" was actually coined by Karel Capec circa 1921

  24. Scyence by davidwr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Scyance.

    That's Scyence you insensitive clod! :)

    Unless of course you mean communicating with the dead. In that case mea culpa.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Scyence by kv9 · · Score: 1

      Scyance.

      That's Scyence you insensitive clod! :)

      shouldn't it be Syence? just sayin'

  25. Hey look! by WSOGMM · · Score: 1

    Oops, I think we just killed the website. Wash your feet before you come into the house.

  26. Cracked magazine? by caywen · · Score: 1

    Sounds very much like an article from Cracked.com.

  27. Holodeck by debus · · Score: 0

    It may be invented so far in the future that everyone has forgotten the term, but I think it is a great name for a VR room.

  28. ARNist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm hoping for ARNist from Dan Simmons (RNA Artist, play fast-and-loose with genetic manipulation). In fact, Dan Simmons has a bunch of nice new words.

  29. Quark - James Joyce, Finnegan's Wake by kris_lang · · Score: 4, Informative

    Quark is partially based on James Joyce's work, Finnegan's Wake, though it seems to be a retro-explanation by Gell Mann.

    1. Re:Quark - James Joyce, Finnegan's Wake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Or it could be named after the runny cheese product.

  30. But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Informative

    What's interesting is that they don't note the origin of the word "robot," itself, which is most likely the Karel Chapek play "R.U.R". Robota means drudgery in Czech.

    1. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by spisska · · Score: 2, Informative

      What's interesting is that they don't note the origin of the word "robot," itself, which is most likely the Karel Chapek play "R.U.R" [wikipedia.org]. Robota means drudgery in Czech.

      The term was most certainly coined by Karel Capek. The R.U.R is for Rossum's Universal Robots; the play is from 1921.

      The word robota has a bit more complex meaning than just drudgery. It can generally mean any unpleasant physical task, but particularly where there's an obligation.

      The term is medieval in origins, and describes the obligation of labor that peasants owed the landlord. Every household owed X days of robota every year, in addition to taxes, crop quotas, etc.

      It is not robota, for example, to clean your kitchen or wax your car. It may be robota to mow your lawn, depending on how you feel about it.

      It's definitely robota when you have to complete some substantial task for someone else, particularly when you know there are better ways of doing it but can't, for whatever reason, use any of them.

      The play is really interesting, and the English translation is very good. The robots are machines, but they're basically humans without emotion.

      Capek also wrote an excellent proto-dystopian novel called War With the Newts.

      Newts has a lot of the same themes and ideals of RUR, but is a lot darker and a lot less positive about humanity in general. Not a surprising attitude for central Europe in 1936.

      But I highly recommend reading him. He's an overlooked genius of the Modern period

    2. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually robota or similar (robotet' is the infinitive in Russian I think) just means 'work' in a good many Eastern European/Slavic languages.

    3. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In Russian, yes; not in Czech - same root, different meaning - in Czech the standard verb for "to work" is "pracovat," or more generically, "delat" (the e should have a hacheck over it - Slashdot's support of anything but ASCII sucks), which is the same as in Russian.

      Actually, Russian and Czech are a fun pair of languages, in terms of false cognates. "Stool", meaning "chair" in Russian is "table" in Czech, and "krasny" is "red" in Russian, but "beautiful" in Czech (same root, and the origin of "krasivy" in Russian) - if you've ever seen the movie Kolya, there's a pun about the latter pair cognate as little boy is saying "Nash krasny" ("our [flag is] red") and the main character wonders what's so beautiful about it.

      Also, sorry about my choices for Russian transliteration - I don't write Russian very often, and particularly not in roman characters, so I don't know how the kids do it these days.

    4. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      Vy jste Cesky? Just curious. Studoval jsem cestinu, ale mluvim ted' velmi spatne.

      And, for what it's worth, I've also read that Karel's brother, Josef was actually the one who coined the term, hence my hedging about who came up with the term.

    5. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by spisska · · Score: 1

      Bydlil jsem rok v Praze, ale aj sest a pol rokov na Solensko. Hovorim ovela lepsie ako mluvim.

      And I think you might be right about Josef.

    6. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word comes from a less commonly used word which means "to do" in a sense. So robota can be thought of a "doings" with the connotation of drudgery. In this light, a "Robot" is a thing which "does" or works.

    7. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      Ano, vim - mluvim drohu cesky. Drugery is the best I could come up with online without having to go dig out my Cesko-Anglicky slovnik.

    8. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by OglinTatas · · Score: 1

      in Czech the standard verb for "to work" is "pracovat, or more generically, "delat"...which is the same as in Russian."

      I wonder, is this the origin of the invocation "prikazyvat" in Larry Niven's "Integral Trees" where users signal the voice-activated computer that the next phrase is a command or query? The word is supposedly of Russian origin

    9. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      I wonder, is this the origin of the invocation "prikazyvat" in Larry Niven's "Integral Trees" where users signal the voice-activated computer that the next phrase is a command or query? The word is supposedly of Russian origin

      Sounds like the (imperfective) infinitive of the Russian verb meaning "to command."

    10. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by sik0fewl · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Here's what etymonline.com has to say. Apologies for those that don't read etymology definitions often... they can be somewhat confusing sometimes. This one isn't too bad.

      1923, from Eng. translation of 1920 play "R.U.R." ("Rossum's Universal Robots"), by Karel Capek (1890-1938), from Czech robotnik "slave," from robota "forced labor, drudgery," from robotiti "to work, drudge," from an Old Czech source akin to Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude," from rabu "slave" (see orphan), from a Slavic stem related to Ger. Arbeit "work" (O.H.G. arabeit). According to Rawson the word was popularized by Karel Capek's play, "but was coined by his brother Josef (the two often collaborated), who used it initially in a short story." Robotics coined 1941 in a science fiction context by Isaac Asimov, who proposed the "Three Laws of Robotics" in 1968.

      --
      I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
    11. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, on another post here I mentioned that it might be Josef rather than Karel, but I've only seen that assertion from a single source and haven't bothered to research it; we did about a 1/2 hour in Czech class discussing words that came into English from Czech. The OED merely mentions that it comes from the Chapek play and the article we read in Czech class mentioned that it came from Josef Chapek. So, who knows. My Czech teacher said the word robota it had the connotation of slavery, both literally and figuratively, i.e., unpleasant labor you don't want to do.

      The asserted relation to German is interesting; looking at a list of Indo-European roots, the postulated meaning seems to be something related to orphan. Hm. I should probably take another class on historical linguistics.

    12. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 1

      Here's what etymonline.com has to say.

      Wow, thanks for that! I have a new favorite website.

      --
      +0 Meh
    13. Re:But what about Karel Chapek? by sik0fewl · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I found the relation to German "arbeit" interesting.

      I wish I would have took some linguistic and phonology classes while I was in university. I took a class on words with Greek and Latin roots and a few entry level language classes, but that's it.

      --
      I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
  31. Quark by jefu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not from science fiction, from "Finnegans Wake" which is certainly not your usual brand of fiction.

    Three quarks for Muster Mark!
    Sure he hasn't got much of a bark
    And sure any he has it's all beside the mark.

    1. Re:Quark by kris_lang · · Score: 1

      Ah, serves me right for not RTFA and just reading the /. summary which states fiction rather than science fiction. Mea culpa.

      "Oxford University Press has a blog post listing nine words used in science and technology which were actually dreamed up by fiction writers. Included on the list are terms like robotics, genetic engineering, deep space, and zero-g. What other terms are sure to follow in the future?"

  32. Was I the only one? by MoxFulder · · Score: 4, Funny

    I gotta say it... I was pretty shocked to see "Thagomizer" excluded from the article!

    It's a term for the tail spikes of a Stegosaurus, which comes from this Far Side cartoon.

    1. Re:Was I the only one? by RedWizzard · · Score: 1

      I gotta say it... I was pretty shocked to see "Thagomizer" excluded from the article!

      It's a term for the tail spikes of a Stegosaurus, which comes from this Far Side cartoon.

      I'd say you probably were the only one to think of Far Side as science fiction, yes.

  33. Rabbit hole! by chord.wav · · Score: 1

    From Matrix!..errr..

    1. Re:Rabbit hole! by BlackBerry8700g · · Score: 1

      I could have sworn that reference, in the movie, was really a reference to the story of "alice in wonderland"

    2. Re:Rabbit hole! by anarche · · Score: 1

      It was.

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    3. Re:Rabbit hole! by chochos · · Score: 1

      I could have sworn everybody was gonna get that joke.

  34. Syence by nemesisrocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They're going to rename the high-school subject to 'Syence', in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience.

    I hear the English department is considering renaming one of their courses to "Fyction", too.

    1. Re:Syence by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Surely you mean Fyxyon

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    2. Re:Syence by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      Surely you mean Fyxyon

      Don't call me Surely!

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
  35. how 'bout by senorpoco · · Score: 1

    Mother-Frakker.

  36. Surprised by aitikin · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm rather surprised that the term taser isn't on the list. After all, it stands for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle.

    --
    "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
  37. One word is sure to come by dangitman · · Score: 1

    What other terms are sure to follow in the future?"

    Spleefcushion.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  38. "Intelligent Design"? by ActusReus · · Score: 1

    Sorry! [ducks]

    1. Re:"Intelligent Design"? by M8e · · Score: 1

      It's ducks all the way down!

  39. They missed one by Megane · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Flash Crowd - which a web site being slashdotted is a form of.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  40. Here's hoping by KORfan · · Score: 1

    Larry Niven's Rishathra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishathra

  41. Avatar by crevistontj · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The term "avatar" as a representation of a person in virtual space was coined in Snow Crash.

    1. Re:Avatar by anarche · · Score: 1

      Avatar first appeared in ancient Sanskrit religion (as Avatara originally, then derived to Avatar)

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    2. Re:Avatar by damnbunni · · Score: 2, Informative

      Run Magazine printed an article about LucasArts' Habitat (which was commercialized as Club Caribe on QuantumLink - think Second Life for the Commodore 64) that referred to your user-created graphical persona as an avatar. In 1986. Reference: http://thefarmers.org/Habitat/2004/09/the_avatar_is_legal_voting_age.html

  42. Frack? by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

    How about some Fracking Battlestar Galactica slang?

  43. Slashdotted by gibbled · · Score: 1

    Its slashdotted! Is slashdot considered Science Fiction?

    1. Re:Slashdotted by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "Is slashdot considered Science Fiction?"

      Only the comments on stories in the "Science" section.

    2. Re:Slashdotted by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      No, Slashdot clearly is fantasy. The magic power of knocking out servers using a magic spell (although you have to type instead of cast it). That magic spell starts with <a href="http:// an ends with </a>

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  44. Space Elevators are not even theoretical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...said the man who wrote about space elevators...
    [ducks!]

    Said the man accompanied by others with a similar interest in building a device that would escalate payload into space, but mis-titled the proposal as "space elevator." I however welcome my Space Escalator to this reality, even rendering my Jacob's Ladder obsolete.

    [/goose]

  45. How about Ethernet... by rHBa · · Score: 2

    "Ethernet" - Douglas Adams - Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy

  46. What was Karel Capek named after? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capek 9

  47. Doctor Smith? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What'd agent Smith get his doctoral now?

    1. Re:Doctor Smith? by AgentSmith · · Score: 1

      It's an honorary degree. Assimilate enough people and they give you one.

  48. Obvious: warp drive by mbkennel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "warp drive" is now being used in some speculative General Relatvity research papers about, well, warp drive.

    In fact the term is so well known from Star Trek that there really isn't any other good word to describe it, and it is scientifically description.

    Of course Gene Roddenberry knew what GR had to say about such things from the get go.

  49. Or comedy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Example: the thagomizer.

  50. Re:Robot - Slave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Robota is a Czech version of the Russian Rabota.
    Rabota means "work" or "labor" in Russian, but the root of the word is "Rab" or slave.

  51. And the OED's SF citations by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1
    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  52. In before Psychohistory! by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    ...

  53. Sophont by AlecC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One word I would like to see get more use is "Sophont", coined by Poul Anderson (actually by his wife, I believe, but his name is on the books) to mean any life intelligent enough to share what we currently call "human rights" but will have to stretch when we meet intelligent ETs.

    --
    Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  54. Actually SF invented less than you'd think by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    A portal is just an opening or a doorway. A portal as a connection between to two points that are not contiguous in normal space is a concept exclusive to science fiction.

    Is it? I'm pretty sure that ideas like opening the a portal to hell existed _long_ before science fiction, and nobody would imagine Hell to be contiguous with some house's inner walls.

    As early as Ancient Egypt they had stuff like a fake stone door in the mortuary chamber, as a portal to the netherworld, through which the souls of the deceased could go back and forth between real world and netherworld. And they didn't conceive the netherworld as a different direction, but as a place deep below in normal place. (E.g., Ra sailed his solar barge through the netherworld each night to complete the circle.) Obviously it can't be contiguous with a room in the middle of the pyramid, and the egyptians knew more geometry than that. But their stone portal supposedly did just that: connected that room to the netherworld.

    So, no, SF didn't invent that. It's a concept that's literally thousands of years old.

    And generally a lot of the things that SF fans claim as their own, is just some old concept dressed in a pseudo-science explanation. Whereas it previously used to be just magic or divine intervention. But at some point giving it a science-sounding explanation became a viable genre, and SF is just that.

    E.g.,

    - teleportation? Summoning is a concept that's as old as belief in magic and demons.

    - robots? Karel Capek's robots were more like what today we'd call clones, a race of mass-produced human serfs, than the nuts and bolts kind we think of today. But if we look at the concept of a robot, it can be traced back to the concept of a golem... and now that's a concept that's really old.

    - genetic engineering? Now that's just tacking the "genes" explanation on another notion that's as old as humanity itself. E.g., when the Bible explains the creation of blacks, that's just what God does: turns one race into another. And there are other myths all over the globe where a race or species is deliberately modified by someone or something with the power to do so. Tacking "genetics" onto it just gives it a different explanation, doesn't make it a new idea.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  55. Nothing new here by Phoghat · · Score: 1

    A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.... When I was in university I had to write a paper for English lit. My chosen subject was : "Does Science Fiction Predict Future Technology, Or Do Readers get their Ideas For Technology From Science Fiction". Discuss

    --
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
  56. It was who invented the word, you know? by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Yes, but the list was about who invented the _term_, not who came up with an implementation concept.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  57. How about the Horrendous Space Kablooie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrendous_Space_Kablooie#Social_criticisms

  58. 10) Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator by retroworks · · Score: 1

    General Motors got a NSF grant as part of the stimulus package, and the 1G SMs are being used now to cut apart "Bugs" Bin Laden's Tora Bora hideaway.

    --
    Gently reply
  59. Teleportation? by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    According to Wikipedia, "teleportation" was coined by Charles Fort so whether that's "science fiction" is a matter of opinion, but the term was certainly popularised by science fiction long before it was applied to a real physical phenomena (which is, admittedly, more boring than the SF version).

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  60. Ansible? by sik6si2o1faan6 · · Score: 1

    The ansible has yet to be invented, but when it is, we'll know what to call it. There are probably scores of comparable examples.

  61. Re:Obvious: warp drive by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    Of course Gene Roddenberry knew what GR had to say about such things from the get go.

    I would be surprised if GR didn't know what GR has to say about such things, because, after all, he was GR himself. :-)

    (Yes, I understand that GR in your post actually meant General Relativity, but I just couldn't resist.)

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  62. Obligatory Simpsons Quote by FishAdmin · · Score: 1

    assuming that we find some source of power that would grant people abilities indistinguishable from magic

    Marge:"It's great! We can do *anything* now that Science has invented Magic."

    --
    Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door went nuts.
  63. Thats GROG. by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I'm from the maritimes you insensitive clod!

    Grok is a made up word by Robert A. Heinlein that roughly translates from Martian to "Understand".

  64. HyperJump? by Nispero · · Score: 1

    Does anyone remember Asimov's hyper-jump?

  65. Pokemon gene by invisiblerhino · · Score: 1

    I remember coming across this while flicking through Nature to find physics stories, it seems scientists initially decided to call it "POK erythroid myeloid ontogenic factor" gene, in homage to the game. The wiki page also mentions a "Sonic the hedgehog" protein and "Pikachurin", a retinal protein.

    --
    xterm -n 8