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GE Introduces 500GB Holographic Disks

bheer writes "According to the NYTimes, at a conference next month, GE will debut their new holographic storage breakthrough — 500GB disks that will cost 10 cents a GB to produce at launch. GE will first focus on selling the technology to commercial markets like movie studios and hospitals, but selling to the broader corporate and consumer market is the larger goal."

370 comments

  1. I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    "This could be the next generation of low-cost storage," said Richard Doherty, an analyst at Envisioneering, a technology research firm.

    The G.E. development, however, could be that pioneering step, according to analysts and experts.

    So a player that could read microholographic storage discs could also read CD, DVD and Blu-ray discs. But holographic discs, with the technology G.E. has attained, could hold 500 gigabytes of data.

    You guys remember that cool new technology that was going to revolutionize the way we store data? The one that was just 11 years away? Well we could be one year closer to that realization today perhaps maybe.

    People that know more than you and might even be experts possibly speculated that this might be a reality within some amount of time. It brings me great joy to announce to you that now we're maybe in the ballpark. You yourself have the chance to be alive when this thing hits. And it could be big.

    Perhaps tomorrow it will be in my computer or the fabrication process might not ever be cheaply implemented and then we could wait longer than five years possibly. "It's so tantalizingly exciting but still just over that next hill we think," is what I said last year and now look. I may have been correct or at least within one standard deviation of time for this product.

    This is exciting to the point that I very well may scream. I think now is the time to possibly ask yourself: are you ready for what might turn into something big? Because it could be around the corner.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by jd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Did you know, statistically it is possible that every molecule in your body will spontaneously relocate itself to the moon? This COULD happen!

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Holographic storage seems to be part of the "permanent future" of stuff that is always a few years away. Holographic storage, fusion power, GNU HURD, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. On the plus side, Holographic storage is perpetually 2-5 years away, which makes it ever so much closer than fusion, which is forever 20 years out.

    3. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stephen Hawking would be proud!

    4. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the plus side, Holographic storage is perpetually 2-5 years away, which makes it ever so much closer than fusion, which is forever 20 years out.

      That reminded me of my Computation Theory class, where some sets were "more infinite" than others.

      Damn you. ;)

    5. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bullshit. It's more likely that they'll relocate to a NASA sound stage.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    6. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > [...] the "permanent future" of stuff that is always a few years away. Holographic storage, fusion power, GNU HURD, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. [...]

      I want my flying jetpack damn it!

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    7. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, so, 18 months to turn it into a viable consumer technology. 10 years to argue with the movie studios on the type of DRM to build in - ala HD-DVD and Blu-Ray - which then gets cracked in 3 months. So... I can buy one of these things around 2020?

    8. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2, Funny

      +1 Douglas Adams!

      "Infinite Improbability Drive"

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    9. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by erroneus · · Score: 1

      What ever happened to that storage technology breakthrough that could store ridiculous amounts of data on a roll of scotch tape? I think it was some 5+ years ago I first heard of that technology here on slashdot. Nothing ever come of it?

      As I read about the technology, I got stuck on the fact that they are still using disks as media. How about a nice cube or pyramid shape like these?

      http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Holocron

    10. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Just never, ever stand between two mirrors in a darkened room and say "aleph-null, aleph-null, aleph-null!". As long as you avoid that, you'll be fine.

    11. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      There are shipping holographic storage systems which can store 300GB on a disk. Last time I checked, the drive cost about $20K and the disks were around $100, so it's not a mass-market product, but it is shipping which puts it a step ahead of the this one which is just an announcement.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by tgd · · Score: 1

      GE isn't some vaporware Silicon Valley think tank or startup.

    13. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Vu1turEMaN · · Score: 1

      I'd rather mod you Insightful.

      I remember seeing an amazing set of surround sound headphones by GE at CES, and that was 5 years ago. They were never released.

      GE makes shit, and then other brands buy it off of them 10 years later.

    14. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      You guys remember that cool new technology that was going to revolutionize the way we store data? The one that was just 11 years away? Well we could be one year closer to that realization today perhaps maybe.

      I think, with all that weasel-wording, you actually pushed yourself into the "definitely wrong" category :) However far away the technology is, we're absolutely positively 11 years closer than we were before.

      Unless it's never coming, in which case we're arguably no closer than we were before. (But not one year.)

      Unless you interpret "realization" to mean "I realized that this technology was coming", in which case we're 11 years further than before. (Still not one year!)

    15. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >You guys remember that cool new technology that was going to revolutionize the way we store data?

      Yeah? We take it for granted now?

      I remember the whole experience, going from a Trapper Keeper to a 160K floppy drive to a 16 Terabyte Drobo on the same desk.

      At some point, the capacity surpassed the amount of data that I personally want to store. I could still stand for it to be faster, so the capacity has passed the Plateau of Human Proportion, but the transfer rate has not.

    16. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GE Introduces 500GB Holographic Disks

      GE: Hey everybody, I want you to meet someone. Say hello to 500GB Holographic Disk!

      Non-rational press member/marketing android: Oh hey 500GB Holographic Disk, you look and sound awesome! Let's go out and party. I'll buy the drinks.

      Rational consumer: Oh yeah, you're really awesome, 500GB Holographic Disk, but I don't know why I'm talking to you because you're GE's fucking imaginary friend.

    17. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by maxume · · Score: 5, Funny

      They sell ecomagination!

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    18. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      A break threw technology expected to be released when such technology will be considered a small upgrade. We are always hoping for some breakthrough to go immediately to the market making everything else last year seem obsolete, but what we get is a smooth incremental upgrade that you don't really notice. And it only seems like a break threw when you look back. Such as the iPod there were other MP3 Players out there. Yea it was a small and had good storage, but those were only incremental upgrades. But when you look back 8 years you see how it changed the market.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    19. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by dirtyhippie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      GNU HURD is no longer 2-5 years away. Even the debian port has stopped being remotely useful.

    20. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by zorro-z · · Score: 1

      Monorail! Transit system of the future! Always has been, always will be.

      Cue The Simpsons,

      --
      -Z
    21. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      You guys remember that cool new technology that was going to revolutionize the way we store data? The one that was just 11 years away?

      No. I probably saved the story, but ran out of storage space and/or it got corrupted because it wasn't holographic.

    22. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by canonymous · · Score: 2, Funny

      I want my flying jetpack damn it!

      That sounds like too much trouble... you'd have to coax it down to ground level just to put it on.

    23. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by hclewk · · Score: 1
    24. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by pmarini · · Score: 1

      is that because of sympathetic resonance?

      --
      Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
      Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
    25. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by thsths · · Score: 1

      Low cost? 10p for GB is more than you pay for a hard disk. Ok, so maybe it is lighter than a hard disk, but Ibet not as fast. Also Blu-Ray disks cost just a fraction of this price, and 4 four layer version is already working in the lab.

    26. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can increase the chances of it happening by doing large quantities of acid.

    27. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Doctor+Morbius · · Score: 1

      You are correct sir. For example, the set of irrational numbers is larger than the set of integers.

      --
      If I disagree with you it's because you are wrong.
    28. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You remember that article in Nature half a year ago, where some boffins from UCLA figured out that if you peel scotch tape in vacuum, you get x-rays ?

    29. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GE is just trying to create good press and divert attention away from how they screwed up by getting into the sub prime market too late, draining money from other profit centers by making such horrible ones in consumer finance.

    30. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Bozzio · · Score: 1

      nope. Just plain old pathetic resonance.

      --
      I just pooped your party.
    31. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Just never, ever stand between two mirrors in a darkened room and say "aleph-null, aleph-null, aleph-null!". As long as you avoid that, you'll be fine.

      Do an infinite number of Michael Keatons appear?

    32. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Low cost? 10p for GB is more than you pay for a hard disk.

      Not by much, though. Consumer-grade hard disks are still close to $100 for 1 TB, which would work out to the same $0.10/GB. And since holographic storage is a much newer technology, there's a good chance that the price will drop faster than for magnetic disks.

    33. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Some source for your pricing might be nice. Finding quality optical disks can be hard, especially for less than about $2.50 in a bd-r.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    34. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      I usually take flack when I respond this way to this tripe that gets posted on slashdot all the time.

      I mean if it isn't SSD or nano-photoelectric paint or whatever else... There is always some bleeding edge development that was just released that is going to revolutionize how I do everything etc...

      I mean really, most the stories never go anywhere, and are just reported as new developments, over and over again.

      Wake me up when someone is actually developing something physical that is at least remotely practical.

      I don't mean to be debbie downer but when you see enough of these "announcements", the phrase never cry wolf comes to mind.

      Also this goes for manufactures announcements. Company X plans to develop a harddrive that will store 1000 petabytes, on the head of a pin, that runs off of fairy dust, by 2012.

      Good for them.

      I plan on doing a lot of things myself. However simply saying it doesn't actually make it so.

    35. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by dimeglio · · Score: 1

      I thought there for just a second I read Copulation Theory class. But then I remebered I was on slashdot. ...cause you know, that would have been something to get excited about.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    36. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Note they are giving a price point 10Cents/gig AND they are starting to talk about launch dates.

      While this COULD be a vaporware fluff article; it seems that they COULD be getting out of the vapor stage.

      If you think about it this could be not that much to talk about. How many people have a 500 gig drive sitting around that cost under 200 bucks? We're talking cutting that price by 3/4ths in the next several years. As computing goes that's respectable but not all that outrageous.

    37. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Ack me do math? No!

      Yes I know I flubbed the math. dur dur dur.

    38. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by SnapShot · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of a funny personal story. It's March of 2000 and I've finally got a decent job as a coder. I've missed the previous 10 years of skyrocketing tech stocks and I figure it's time to dive in. Around that time, Wired Magazine online does a profile of a company called Constellation 3D. This high-tech start-up had a new DVD technology that can store up to a Terabyte of data! Well, I dive right...

      I keep the shares -- currently valued at $0.0001 each -- in my stock account to remind me that press releases are not the basis for sound investing.

      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
    39. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by The_Wilschon · · Score: 1

      Doing that won't be a problem. But if you say it Omega times, Georg Cantor's ghost will turn you into dust.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    40. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by rot26 · · Score: 1

      No. An infinite number of Rudy Ruckers appear. Hi Rudy.

      --



      To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
    41. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by rot26 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Low cost? 10p for GB is more than you pay for a hard disk.

      10p/GB was the manufacturing cost. Multiply that by 15 to 100 to figure out what it will SELL for.

      --



      To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
    42. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Sebastian+Moran · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows that the NASA moon sound stage was on Mars, so it's probably more likely that your molecules would move to the moon. http://xkcd.com/202/

    43. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The language of science is never to talk in absolutes. The language of business is to always talk about absolutes. "The Titanic is Unsinkable" --business. "The Titanic seems very seaworthy" --science. "The stock market seems to be going up" --science "The stock market will rise forever!" --business ....see the difference? One is a marketing term, promising everything. The other is a cautionary tale, showing direction and trends, but no absolute, so if the bottom drops out, or the ship sinks, the scientist still has credibility, and isn't thought an idiot or liar. Business people have no such concerns.

    44. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOOOOOoooooooooo!

    45. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Malc · · Score: 1

      Blu-ray disc is supposed to be able to scale up to 300GB too.

    46. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by morcego · · Score: 1

      Last I've heard, the main problem with 3d storage units was the mechanical precision of the reading device.

      I'm mean, we have had high precision laser beams for years now. We have also had second and third order optical polymers for years. The problem was just getting the 2 sets of laser beams to be moved and positioned precisely enough is a short enough amount of time to make this viable.

      Then again, my information on this subject is years old, so I might be completely wrong.
       

      --
      morcego
    47. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by cgenman · · Score: 1

      With Terrabyte external disks costing 100 dollars these days, what's the advantage of Holographic storage? Extreme conditions where traditional magnetic media couldn't survive? Faster random access?

    48. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      I don't believe you. You must be time travelling.

    49. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Ivlis · · Score: 1

      This technology is a breakthrough if it exists. But if it doesn't then it is not.

    50. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There goes the old computed hologram project.
      Or was it a halfagram

    51. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 1

      Holographic storage seems to be part of the "permanent future" of stuff that is always a few years away. Holographic storage, fusion power, GNU HURD, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. On the plus side, Holographic storage is perpetually 2-5 years away, which makes it ever so much closer than fusion, which is forever 20 years out.

      You forgot WinFS.

    52. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      At least he got something right:

      "The price of storage per gigabyte is going to drop precipitously," Mr. Lawrence said.

      Also did anyone tell them hard drives are already less than 10 cents a gigabyte? So instead of buying a new burner and $50 500gb holographic disks in 3 years, it'd be cheaper to buy a 500gb external USB drive today.... well, almost cheaper, it's $62, but I could almost probably guarantee it'll be at least $12 cheaper by 2011.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    53. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can finally build my fortress of solitude.

    54. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Also did anyone tell them hard drives are already less than 10 cents a gigabyte?

      I'd guess that the attractiveness of holographic displays is more due to the data density, and hence read speeds, than the raw volume.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    55. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well, I think this is the very point why division by zero should be possible. Because there isn't only one infinite. It's more like a complex number, with some kind of temporal component in in. That way, you could always get your numbers back from infinite.

      I think math should always include timing / sequencing. That way, that whole problem would be gone.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    56. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Please, for FSM's sake, think one step ahead!

      Do you think they will always cost that much and hold that much?
      Do you think one of those factors will change?
      Do you think the factors will change faster than the factors for magnetic data?
      Do you know how fast these factors change?

      If they change faster, then some time in the future, they will outpace magnetic storage.
      I think they always have one advantage: You can always store more on the same place, when you do it holographic.
      So I can't imagine them not winning over other storage methods.

      As long as research is not stopped by some short-sighted engineers like you. :P
      "Leaving research exclusively in the hands of engineers, we would have perfectly functioning oil lamps, but no electricity." -- Albert Einstein ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    57. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ah well, then I'll set for symbolic pathetic resonance...

    58. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by SlashWombat · · Score: 1

      Hydrochloric, Sulphuric, or Lysergic. Any of these might get you to the moon!

    59. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by gadget+junkie · · Score: 1

      Next on the GE project sheet: the Holodeck!!! (c)

      --
      "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
    60. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      The key is announcements I think would be typically the realm of the PR guy, and we all know how knowledgeable they are, usually at the behest of Management, which we all know are not greedy at all and never motivated by other things like stock values.

      Another thing that is horrible are those that do scientific papers that very loosely report something or propose something not yet proven by any rigor. Enter the media and some journalist reporting on something they know nothing about and we also know that everything is reported with precision and never just to grab readers or headlines...

      can you tell I am a bit bitter and cynical towards this stuff... Oh well it makes the few grains of truth that slip through all the more sweeter when discovered I suppose.

    61. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Also this is perfect topic for one of my favorite quote/lines... no idea where it comes from...

      "If you believe everything you read, perhaps reading isn't for you."

      Basically meaning to think critically about things, and not to accept anything just at face value.

    62. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by anoopdotk · · Score: 1

      In 2020, you need to choose between HD-hologram and Blue-Hologram

    63. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Izmunuti · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you are referring to the product that InPhase Technology announced.

      They aren't shipping and probably never will. I hear they are out of money, didn't make payroll last month, and could shut down any day now.

    64. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys remember that cool new technology that was going to revolutionize the way we store data? The one that was just 11 years away? Well we could be one year closer to that realization today perhaps maybe.

      Change "store data" to $whatever, and this could be an automated first-post for 80% of slashdot's content...

      In fact, I think I'm going to re-read this post 10 times, and then get back to work-- what a time saver!

    65. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by talz13 · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the jetpack you use while planted firmly on the ground?

    66. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by talz13 · · Score: 1

      Were you talking about Millipede?

    67. Re:I Could Be Really Excited About This--Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THROUGH man, THROUGH.

  2. When we see it by zoomshorts · · Score: 0

    Then I will belive.

    1. Re:When we see it by jd · · Score: 1

      It'll never happen. Holograms are interference patterns, and it's illegal to interfere with a computer's operations.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:When we see it by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      It'll never happen. Holograms are interference patterns, and it's illegal to interfere with a computer's operations.

      Unless you're the government, then it's just another day at work for the No Such Agency.

      Hang on, somebody's knocking at my do

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  3. Not good enough. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Not good enough. by Spazztastic · · Score: 5, Funny

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Because it's holographic!

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    2. Re:Not good enough. by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      Depends. If it's nearly as cheap as patters per GB and nearly as fast as flash, it might be a good deal: You could get drives that were both large and fast. (Oh, and it's smaller too: you could hold that 500 GB in a thumb drive, most likely.)

      Of course, I'll believe it when I see it...

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    3. Re:Not good enough. by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      Who ever thought they would use Flash memory with the $/MB when came out, let alone lingering write limit fears? But look now at how it has revolutionized storage on hand held devices.

    4. Re:Not good enough. by liquidsunshine · · Score: 1

      Because it's for portable storage like DVDs, not hard drives per se.

    5. Re:Not good enough. by BigGar' · · Score: 5, Informative

      It appears that they are referring to a CD or DVD like product not a hard drive.
      From the article:
       
      In G.E.â(TM)s approach, the holograms are scattered across a disc in a way that is similar to the formats used in todayâ(TM)s CDs, conventional DVDs and Blu-ray discs. So a player that could read microholographic storage discs could also read CD, DVD and Blu-ray discs. But holographic discs, with the technology G.E. has attained, could hold 500 gigabytes of data. Blu-ray is available in 25-gigabyte and 50-gigabyte discs, and a standard DVD holds 5 gigabytes.

      --


      Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
    6. Re:Not good enough. by RandoX · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's disc, not disk.

    7. Re:Not good enough. by Bieeanda · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because that's only the projected cost at release? You remember how much writable CD media cost when it was first released, right?

    8. Re:Not good enough. by wjh31 · · Score: 1

      As an optical drive, i find it very hard to imagine that it will be capable of having the latency of flash drives, which is what makes them fast.

    9. Re:Not good enough. by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80

      This is the next generation of optical storage, not hard drives. It's meant to be the follow up to BluRay discs. (Which already contain a simplified version of holographic technology.) $50/disc is too expensive for the short term, but I imagine the idea is to drive the price down through economics of scale. By the time they've got most of the specialty applications out of the way, they can move on to the early adopters. i.e. The people willing to pay $30/movie to watch Spiderman XI on their ED (extreme definition) television sets.

    10. Re:Not good enough. by viking099 · · Score: 1

      Here, let me store your hard drive against the fridge with this rare earth magnet, right next to my holographic disc until I get some time to check out what you put on there...

      2 weeks later

      Hey! I thought you told me your hard drive had the latest Nirvana's Shotgun album collection!

      Great, I guess it's back to my Zampfir's Greatest Pan Flute Performances, which was stored on my holographic disc.

    11. Re:Not good enough. by Tumbleweed · · Score: 0

      Someone marked this as 'Insightful'? Seriously? Look, this is the price at launch. The description here says they're not initially targeting consumers with this. You didn't even have to read TFA to figure that much out.

    12. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe if it was "holo-porno-graphic" - but only maybe...

    13. Re:Not good enough. by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Funny
      Yes, and it has electrolytes! Everybody wants that!

      RS

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    14. Re:Not good enough. by Bentov · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, I was cleaning my apartment and found a cd-r with a $10 price tag on it....seems like so long ago..

    15. Re:Not good enough. by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      We've currently got optical storage (BluRay) that holds 50GB for $0.005/GB. Is there really a demand for distributing 10x more static media for 20x the price?

      It seems to me that the trend will be towards smaller and cheaper before higher capacity.

    16. Re:Not good enough. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      What, I can have a little Tasha Yar smile at me from it? Cool!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    17. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, no it's not. When applied to computers and periphals, it is always "disk" with a "k". "Disc" only came into use as the Compact Disc, which for a number of years was an audio format that had nothing to do with computers.

      But to the extent that there are any rules for such things, "disk", in the context of computing, is spelled with a "k".

    18. Re:Not good enough. by blincoln · · Score: 4, Insightful

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Power surges and giant magnets probably won't erase a holographic disc.

      The media is separate from the read/write mechanism so being able to read the media (outside of a clean room-equipped lab) is not tied to the lifetime of a single drive's mechanical components.

      It's a lot harder to accidentally erase the contents of a WORM storage device.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    19. Re:Not good enough. by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Read-only and write-once tech really has no practical place in the future, outside of stuff like security feeds and other archival applications. Movies will be pretty much download-only by the time this stuff would be affordable for home use. Remember, you don't need to ship bandwidth, which is a simply unavoidable problem for any physical media.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    20. Re:Not good enough. by HasselhoffThePaladin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Can we please come up with a better term than ED to describe how superawesome our TV sets are?

    21. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Uhhh.... maybe because it's hard to carry around a whole stack of 1TB hard drives in your computer bag...

      Also, wouldn't it be nice to have 50 or 100 movies on a single disk? Heck, that's more than my whole movie collection so far.

    22. Re:Not good enough. by Crashspeeder · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't necessarily buy it at this point but should movies go super-ultra-mega-HD, I somehow doubt netflix is willing to send you a 1TB HDD. A disc may be more practical...possibly.

    23. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ability to cheaply print large numbers of data objects will always be a significant player in the market. Read-only has always been orders of magnitude cheaper to mass produce. I don't see it going away.

    24. Re:Not good enough. by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      What they are claiming is the startup price. Bluray wasn't .005/GB to start out. This holographic storage is like 20 years in the making I believe, and 500GB is less than half of the capability.

      This would be quite the revolutionary step though, as you wouldn't really need the internet to fileshare, just bring a single unobtrusive disk.

      All of this though, I'll believe when I see it.

    25. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Blu-ray does not use anything like holographic technology. It is multi-layer, but that is not even close to the same thing. There is nothing holographic about it.

    26. Re:Not good enough. by Amarok.Org · · Score: 1

      Some vendors would beg to differ...

      http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/about/contact_us/

      --
      -- "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
    27. Re:Not good enough. by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the disk is holographic (as opposed to the data), doesn't that mean it's not actually there?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    28. Re:Not good enough. by CecilPL · · Score: 2, Funny

      You must work for Verizon.

    29. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I am aware of this. Nevertheless, the "disc" spelling did not become popular until CDs came out as an audio (and commercial) thing, which came after the "k" rule for computing.

    30. Re:Not good enough. by sexconker · · Score: 3, Funny

      So this is one of them newfangled holodrives, eh?
      Can't wait to pop this baby in and fire it up.

      OH SHIT WAIT DON'T OPEN THE BOX! You can't expose these to light! FUCK!

    31. Re:Not good enough. by curtix7 · · Score: 1

      Ultra Rare Holographic Disk!
      Disk 6 in a set of 243

    32. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've currently got optical storage (BluRay) that holds 50GB for $0.005/GB.

      Whoa, where? Cheapest I've seen is ~$4/25GB disc which is $0.16/GB.

    33. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought EDTV stood for enhanced definition basically 480p. When did it change to extreme definition? And if it really is "extreme" shouldn't it be XDTV? It's not truly extreme unless it's X-treme!

      Side note: Why does everything have to be fucking extreme anyway? And yes, this is an extreme question stated in a fucking xtreme way!!!!!!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edtv

    34. Re:Not good enough. by jimbudncl · · Score: 1

      In attempting (and succeeding, apparently) at humor, you hit the nail on the head. Magnetic storage, in its current form, can only go so far. At some point, the track of this technology will end, and we'll all be left stranded.

      Except, a new technology is inevitably going to emerge before that happens... maybe this is it! We knock it now, but we may all be using this (or some derivation of it) sooner than we think.

      And for a new technology, this pricing is pretty good. We'll see what actually happens, of course ;)

    35. Re:Not good enough. by bFusion · · Score: 1

      Thanks for posting what immediately came to mind when I read the parent.

    36. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Psssh.

      Like any nerd opening one of these things up would also have sufficient ambient light to scramble the bits.

      Sorry, but a command prompt doesn't give off that much light, even 2 or 3 screens worth.

    37. Re:Not good enough. by schmaustech · · Score: 0

      To archive your porn for the local time capsule.

    38. Re:Not good enough. by sanosuke001 · · Score: 1

      $0.005/GB? Where do you get your BD media from? Do you work for Verizon?

      Newegg: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010100071%201087444985&name=BD-R(Blu-ray)%20DL)

      $21.99 for a 50GB BD-R DL = $0.4398/GB. Just a bit off, there...

      --
      -SaNo
    39. Re:Not good enough. by pete-classic · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's what your data needs!

      -Peter

    40. Re:Not good enough. by maxume · · Score: 1

      People with huge storage needs will be left stranded. The rest of us who will never need 10 terabytes of storage will be fine (yeah, yeah, I know video and the next thing, but I already don't give two shits about video, so the next thing better really need a lot of storage and be awesome).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    41. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but a command prompt doesn't give off that much light, even 2 or 3 screens worth.

      2 or 3 screens worth of pr0n, however...

    42. Re:Not good enough. by grodzix · · Score: 1

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Of course you don't want to use it if it costs $50. But remember, that dvds and blu-rays weren't really any cheaper in the beginning. Just hold on till the price hits $1.

      --
      My Windows is NOT slow, it's special!
    43. Re:Not good enough. by Tanman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because a 1TB hard drive has a minimum of 3 platters. This could get it done in 2 platters. And that matters. A lot. First there is size, second there is the number of moving parts required. And that is with this tech at its infancy and HDD tech being very mature.

      Then there's also the issue of durability. It will be interesting to see if this new format breaks down, or if it can store data more indefinitely.

    44. Re:Not good enough. by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      That's the difference between a pre-pressed BluRay disc, and a rewritable BluRay disc. Not a confusion between cents and dollars (which doesn't even make sense here).

    45. Re:Not good enough. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Because $50 is including recoup of R&D costs, actual media cost of an optical platter is far far less than rotating magnetic media. Sure, you won't use this when it's new... I think I burned one personal CD-Rom on our fancy SCSI burner 14 years ago when we got it, mostly because the software sucked, but also because the discs were several dollars each, now the discs are virtually free, and the software has improved a little.

    46. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where else will you store your 3D porn?

    47. Re:Not good enough. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      SyQyest made the magnetic media separate from the mechanism for many years - were pretty successful on the technical side, had their marketing lunch, dinner and breakfast eaten by the technically inferior IOMega Zip drives.... whether or not holographic discs take off has more to do with the people pushing them than anything about how useful they are.

    48. Re:Not good enough. by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      That would be funny if you didn't have it backwards. (I didn't say .005 cents, I said .005 dollars)

      I literally meant a half a cent per gigabyte for a pressed read-only BluRay disc.

    49. Re:Not good enough. by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Personally, I don't like to carry a whole stack of BluRay discs around in my computer bag either. What will make this holographic technology any better. Also, with 1 TB Hard drive, you can still fit 50-100 movies on a single disc. Also, your movie collection is small.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    50. Re:Not good enough. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Different types of media have different pros and cons. Hard drives are relatively cheap these days, but they're still pretty heavy, making them a little bit of a nuisance to store, move, or ship. Plus there are lots of moving parts and such in a hard drive, meaning they're more prone to break and harder to recover than some other options.

      That's just off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone very clever and technical could come up with more. My point is just that, even though hard drive storage is cheap, there are still roles for which tape and optical media are a better choice.

    51. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power surges don't generally erase disks, plus you should have a UPS and/or surge protection in place to protect you whole system. What does worry me are the large magnets. My friends bring them over all the time to play the 'haha I erased all your hard drives' joke on me.

    52. Re:Not good enough. by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

      I'd say $.10/GB is pretty good for a newer technology. Just a decade ago weren't we still paying roughly $.02/MB?

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    53. Re:Not good enough. by sxmjmae · · Score: 1

      It is also because it like a CD, DVD, Blue Ray disk! So now the movie companies can put the super higher grade/quality movie that fills almost the entire disk... see the pirates have the drive space to store hundreds of these movies? Or better yet the DRM could occupy 490 Gigabytes of the disk!!!

      --
      My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
    54. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This disk will have the same physical dimensions as a CD/DVD/Blue Ray disk, otherwise it will be dead on arrival.

      High-volume storage clients will kill for this technology. A box of 1,000 DVDs suddenly collapses to a stack of 10 of these babies.

      But nobody stores stuff on 1,000 DVDs; they use tape storage, which maxes out at 1TB per tape.

      Who wouldn't trade 2 random access 500GB discs that can be switched out in seconds for a 1TB tape that takes 62 seconds to mount? Everybody would and will.

      This is a huge development.

    55. Re:Not good enough. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      We've currently got optical storage (BluRay) that holds 50GB for $0.005/GB

      We have? Can you tell me where you are getting dual-layer BluRay rewritable disks for 25 cents? Everywhere I've looked is selling 25GB, write-once, BluRay discs for around $5, which is $0.2/GB for write-once optical storage, and twice what they are claiming for this. Rewritable discs seem to be around 50% more expensive.

      For reference, single-layer DVD-RWs cost around $0.60, or $0.12/GB, which is closer to what they are promising.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    56. Re:Not good enough. by moniker127 · · Score: 1

      Who do I write a check out to?

    57. Re:Not good enough. by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention that holographic storage has zero trans fats.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    58. Re:Not good enough. by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Funny

      So you can make a $50 coaster when Nero fails to burn the disc properly!

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    59. Re:Not good enough. by Sir_Real · · Score: 1

      Can you also remove that 1 TB hard drive and feed it to another machine without powering either down?

    60. Re:Not good enough. by j1mmy · · Score: 1

      you could also buy a much smaller SSD for $250, but why would you use that stuff?

    61. Re:Not good enough. by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I can't. But you can easily find, using Google, places that will sell you read-only duplications for $0.25 each.

      Nowhere in the linked article does it say this new storage is writeable/re-writable. It's being marketed to movie studios (again, according to the article), so one assumes that it's intended for read-only purposes.

    62. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and it has electrolytes! Everybody wants that!

      Plants crave it!

    63. Re:Not good enough. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Power surges and giant magnets probably won't erase a holographic disc.

      Er, yeah, but it's funny how a car dashboard on a hot summer day can melt those bytes away...

    64. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's (what we can in the biz) pulling numbers out of one's ass.

    65. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Because it's holographic!

      Or it might have a much longer shelf life to backup data.

    66. Re:Not good enough. by DarthStrydre · · Score: 1

      "The 7200.12 is the first desktop hard drive to fit 500GB of data on to a single platter and manages to hold 1TB by using just two platters versus as many as four on other disks." --Electronista

    67. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      I understand your concern, but you wouldn't squeeze a 1tb hard drive into a dvd cover and make it fit neatly among your game- and movie collection, now would you?

    68. Re:Not good enough. by HasselhoffThePaladin · · Score: 1

      You saw a commercial for Papa John's last night, didn't you?

      I've had it, and I'm here to tell you, it's pretty x-treme.

    69. Re:Not good enough. by Albanach · · Score: 1

      Yep, I was cleaning my apartment

      New around here, perchance?

    70. Re:Not good enough. by Luyseyal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yep. It also means all the data is stored on the surface of a sphere surrounding the disk.

      I'll crawl back to my hole now,
      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    71. Re:Not good enough. by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Because that's only the projected cost at release? You remember how much writable CD media cost when it was first released, right?

      Forget the media, the drives were bad enough. I remember spending over $200 on a CD-RW drive. The last DVD-RW drive I bought was $30.

    72. Re:Not good enough. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Because it is much easier to hide data on this by slipping it into the middle of your CD/DVD collection than it is to hide a hard drive. Which, unless your significant other is into pr0n as much as you are, is probably a good thing.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    73. Re:Not good enough. by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Can you also remove that 1 TB hard drive and feed it to another machine without powering either down?

      It's SATA, so yes.

    74. Re:Not good enough. by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      There are reasons to use Flash memory even at a higher $/MB, particular in power consumption, size, and fragility of spinning magnetic devices in portable contexts.

    75. Re:Not good enough. by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      USB Fire Wire and SATA/SAS allow you to do just that. Although hot plug SATA seems to be a bit of a black art on Linux (at least to me).

    76. Re:Not good enough. by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Because its removable media like a DVD, not a hard disk.

      If this pans out to be a viable alternative to DVD/Blu-ray for long term backup/storage than it should gain ground. I sure could use that 500GB system to backup some of my stuff. I am a data rat packer and still have backups of my old dos software from the 80's! I even have images of my dos 6.22 disks and windows 3.11 disks.

    77. Re:Not good enough. by westlake · · Score: 1
      I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      You aren't buying one TB hard drive.

      You are buying multiple hard drives for redundant storage.

      You are buying a UPS sized to protect your network and systems as a whole. The price goes up.

      What you won't be buying is data center level protection against fire and flood for your grandma's basement.

      For that you need cheap, secure, external back-up.

      The 500 GB disk fits comfortably into the smallest media rated fire safe or your bank's safety deposit vault.

    78. Re:Not good enough. by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's what you data CRAVES!

    79. Re:Not good enough. by achenaar · · Score: 1
      "But to the extent that there are any rules for such things, "disk", in the context of computing, is spelled with a "k"."

      Disk -> diskette (floppy diskette)

      Disc -> obviously disc shaped (compact disc)

      When GP said "That's disc, not disk." they were alluding to the fact that the storage medium being announced is a compact disc style format, not a hard or floppy disk style device.

      In any event both terms are used in the context of computing e.g. "I'm going to burn these files from my hard-disk, to my compact disc."

    80. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should "anal retentive" have a hyphen?

    81. Re:Not good enough. by ZosX · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nero is pretty good at making coasters. It made 3 last night, until I said fuck it and used the crappy roxio that comes with XP. It worked just fine. :)

    82. Re:Not good enough. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Are you familiar with SATA?

    83. Re:Not good enough. by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      But does it have bewbies?

      --
      oogly boogly!
    84. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost of CDs were relatively high when they first came out, in hindsight at least.

      What concerns me more is that it took an hour to burn a disk when CDs first came out.

      I wonder how fast it would take to burn 300GB using holographic technology. (?) "Holographic" sounds a lot more complicated, and more complicated sounds a lot slower.

    85. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I am aware of this. What's your point?

      "In any event both terms are used in the context of computing e.g. "I'm going to burn these files from my hard-disk, to my compact disc.""

      I have already mentioned this. But for your sake I will repeat myself: there is in fact a spelling rule (whether you want to give it any credence or not), which has been around for a couple of decades now, and which states that in the context of computing, at least in the U.S., a disk, in the sense of disk-shaped object, is always spelled with a "k". I know that some disk manufacturers spell it "disc". That is not relevant to my point.

      See a bit of the history here.

    86. Re:Not good enough. by hydromike2 · · Score: 0

      so that we can have SHD and when they roll out the holographic spheres with 500 TB of space we can get QSXHD, then, 10,000 years from now once we have higher dimensional holographic discs we wont even be able to comprehend how good the picture is!

    87. Re:Not good enough. by hurfy · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately the separation was all too often permanent :(

    88. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data craves peter? And here I thought Wesley was the gay one.

    89. Re:Not good enough. by IntlHarvester · · Score: 1

      "Disc" only came into use as the Compact Disc,

      Death to disco!

      (The non-standard spelling is probably just so they can maintain the trademark.)

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    90. Re:Not good enough. by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Actually diskette simply adds the suffix -ette to the root disk in order to show it as a diminutive version.

      It went hard disk first, then floppy diskette. GP is still right.

      However, Disks have always meant some form of magnettic platter (floppy or hard) in an enclosure of some sort.

      If this is not enclosed it should follow the optical disc naming convention, and be a holographic disc. If it is enclosed it should probably be called a holographic disk.

      Seagate has always been a little off anyway, so I'd just ignore them.

      Oh yeah and of course, I didn't RTFA.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    91. Re:Not good enough. by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      When was the last time any new (computing) technology was initially targeted at consumers?

    92. Re:Not good enough. by zapakh · · Score: 1

      How about "XD", which also serves as an emoticon expressing the joy of acquiring such superawesomeness?

    93. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least in the U.S., a disk, in the sense of disk-shaped object, is always spelled with a "k". I know that some disk manufacturers spell it "disc". That is not relevant to my point.

      Wait, you had a point? Besides quoting arbitrary "rules"?

      If a manufacturer of a product spells it one way, that would seem to imply at the very least some ambiguity or plurality in acceptable spellings. The issue here is that you're asserting a hard and fast rule, where only a modicum of agreement exists.

    94. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisbee

      Obviously disc shaped. Spelled "disc". Yeah, yeah, yeah, not "computer" related... sorry, your argument doesn't hold water.

    95. Re:Not good enough. by Tuoqui · · Score: 1

      It's so you can back up half your porn collection onto one disk.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
    96. Re:Not good enough. by springbox · · Score: 1

      Then what would they call the technology when it becomes even better?

    97. Re:Not good enough. by GregNorc · · Score: 1

      Extremely high read/write speed?

      Give it a few years after consumer release, and you'll have the perfect backup solution: Quick, cheap, easily stored (throw it in a safe deposit box and you're good to go)

    98. Re:Not good enough. by zigfreed · · Score: 1

      And HD-DVD, don't forget about them. They may not have any new releases, but they aren't dead!

    99. Re:Not good enough. by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Power surges and giant magnets probably won't erase a holographic disc.

      Also chronological erasures will not work. You'll need a tapeworm to hunt down and destroy any desired memories.

      Of course, we should have had this technology 8 to 13 years ago, as well as being able to make video phone calls from spinning space stations.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    100. Re:Not good enough. by catmistake · · Score: 1

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

      Show me this $80 1TB hard drive!

    101. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's what data CRAVES!

    102. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and it has electrolytes! Every body needs that!

      Here, corrected that for you.

    103. Re:Not good enough. by achenaar · · Score: 1
      Latin derivation for the name of the shape: discus.

      Latin usage date > "couple of decades" = true;

      Nuff said.

    104. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think it's fitting. i'd be tempted to buy on if i had to compensate.

    105. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we please come up with a better term than ED to describe how superawesome our TV sets are?

      I thought it was an excellent acronym...

    106. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80.

      Not just that:
      cost 10 cents a GB to produce at launch

      So about ten times that at retail.

    107. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      English is not Latin, and English rules of spelling and grammar are NOT the same as Latin rules of spelling and grammar. You have proven nothing.

      Would you then insist that the British use the spelling "color", because that is the one that came first?

      My assertion that the rule came first was because it is a rule, not just a matter of common usage.

    108. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Sigh.

      Okay. Don't bother to look up the rules. Just do it however the hell you want. Obviously nobody cares. Which is fine, don't misunderstand me. But ignoring a rule, and insisting that the rule does not exist, are two very different things. I am just asking people to be honest about it.

    109. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your vagina bleeding? Waaaahh....

    110. Re:Not good enough. by Diag · · Score: 1

      But nobody stores stuff on 1,000 DVDs; they use tape storage, which maxes out at 1TB per tape.
      Who wouldn't trade 2 random access 500GB discs that can be switched out in seconds for a 1TB tape that takes 62 seconds to mount? Everybody would and will.


      I do agree with your point, except the everybody bit. It depends on the market and what type of data you're talking about. On the corporate backup system I look after, we fit over 2 TB on a tape, which costs about $100. It takes about 15 seconds to load and another 10-15 to locate to any position on the tape. When you're talking about backing up multi-terabyte databases, 30 second access time is not a big issue. I see up to 160 MB/sec throughput, with hardware compression. That's 160 MegaBYTES per second. The drives are rated to about 250 MB/sec, so I think the bottleneck is our crummy old 2Gb/sec FC switch. And tape is rewritable. There are several thousand tapes in our libraries.

      Admittedly, the drives cost in the tens of $thousands, and the robotic library in the hundreds of $thousands. But my point is, I can't see everybody abandoning tape for holographic storage in the near future.

      --
      Serving Suggestion: Defrost
    111. Re:Not good enough. by WNight · · Score: 1

      Shipping and manufacturing are getting more expensive now. Digital distribution is low-cost and getting lower.

      Sure, a read-only disc is cheap, but what good is it? It only holds the one thing, and you have to pay a fortune compared to its manufacturing costs to package, ship, warehouse, and retail it, plus the costs the customer incurs coming to your store... And then you end up making too many, or too few, or making them in the wrong area.

    112. Re:Not good enough. by achenaar · · Score: 1

      It's not a rule based on "the context of computing" and it's plainly false to say that it is.
      That's all.

    113. Re:Not good enough. by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      I always thought "disks" were those square magnetic things and "discs" were those round mirrored things.

    114. Re:Not good enough. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      All of the holographic discs on the market at the moment are read-write, and are marketed to movie studios almost exclusively because they have large amounts of footage that they need to archive. When you're filming in digital, you're producing something like 30GB/hour. Add on effects shots and edits and you've got quite a few TBs per film (don't forget that you typically have at least ten, and often a hundred times more material shot than ends up in the final cut). Being able to archive all of it onto a few disks is something that they pay a lot for. Current discs store around 300GB each, so 500GB would be a nice step up, although not a huge increase.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    115. Re:Not good enough. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Really? If you are going to call bullshit, I will have to ask for a citation, please.

    116. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, let's start from your assertion:
      ""But to the extent that there are any rules for such things, "disk", in the context of computing, is spelled with a "k".""
      This is, at this moment, untrue.

      I pulled these links from a (very) quick google search on "disc vs disk" so bear in mind they're not neccessarily 100% trustworthy, however I hope to make up for their possible sketchiness in volume.
      Here goes.

      This one's pretty straightforward - disk=magnetic, disc=optical. Both used in computing.
      http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2300

      This one almost supports your assertion, but if you take into account that compact discs are pretty standard in the computer world these days, then maybe not.
      http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-disc-disk.asp

      Another one making the magnetic/optical distinction, but with no reference to the supposed computing/audio distinciton.
      http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/disc.html

      Whether or not the history of this one is accurate, I can't say, but all in all I came away from reading it without the belief that in computing, it is always "disk".
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_disc

      Finally (because I'm at work and can only slack off for so long) there is a short discussion on the matter here, which, while it is between regular joes, not industry experts, is interesting in that it points out (as do one or two of the other links I've posted) that the English usage was previously disk and was changed over time to the latin rooted disc. Again, this has little to do with disk=computing disc=something else, which was your original assertion.
      http://everything2.com/title/disc%2520vs.%2520disk

      Hope that helps explain where I was coming from.

      Back to work now...

    117. Re:Not good enough. by achenaar · · Score: 1

      Anonymous accident. PP was mine.

    118. Re:Not good enough. by Spatial · · Score: 1

      $85 is close enough.

      You can get one for 80 easily enough if you watch out for special offers.

    119. Re:Not good enough. by jeremy+charles+q · · Score: 1

      Hot swappable SATA depends on the hardware and OS your using. Most consumer grade stuff I have seen doesn't support it but most server equipment will.

    120. Re:Not good enough. by CecilPL · · Score: 1

      But where can you find a 50GB bluray disc for 25 cents? Looks like about 25 bucks for a 50GB disc to me, which is 50 cents/GB. http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BD-RDL-Recordable-Dual-Layer/dp/B000H4FO9G/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_c

    121. Re:Not good enough. by TractorBarry · · Score: 1

      Well how about SAD then (Super Awesome Definition) Which also goes for the content watched on them which is usually SADly dissapointing.

      --
      Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
    122. Re:Not good enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, I was cleaning my apartment and found a cd-r with a $10 price tag on it....seems like so long ago..

      My first thought was that maybe you should swamp out the apartment a little more often, but realistically you could have paid that at OfficeMax just last week... (along with a $20 4-ft Belkin patch cable)

    123. Re:Not good enough. by thexile · · Score: 1

      Try Imgburn.

    124. Re:Not good enough. by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Goodness gracious me, do people still use Nero? To this day a small shudder traverses my spine as I recall my experiences with that fine product. I thought everyone had moved on to the likes of InfraRecorder.

      Then again, that might be a whooshing sound I just heard somewhere above me.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    125. Re:Not good enough. by achenaar · · Score: 1

      Drunk and pissed off enough to think you didn't see my accidentally anonymous post. Therefore I'm reposting now. CBA putting the formatting in so if you have serious trouble viewing it then check out the AC post for a properly formatted response. _______________________________________ Ok, let's start from your assertion: ""But to the extent that there are any rules for such things, "disk", in the context of computing, is spelled with a "k"."" This is, at this moment, untrue. I pulled these links from a (very) quick google search on "disc vs disk" so bear in mind they're not neccessarily 100% trustworthy, however I hope to make up for their possible sketchiness in volume. Here goes. This one's pretty straightforward - disk=magnetic, disc=optical. Both used in computing. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2300 [apple.com] This one almost supports your assertion, but if you take into account that compact discs are pretty standard in the computer world these days, then maybe not. http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-disc-disk.asp [future-perfect.co.uk] Another one making the magnetic/optical distinction, but with no reference to the supposed computing/audio distinciton. http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/disc.html [wsu.edu] Whether or not the history of this one is accurate, I can't say, but all in all I came away from reading it without the belief that in computing, it is always "disk". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_disc [wikipedia.org] Finally (because I'm at work and can only slack off for so long) there is a short discussion on the matter here, which, while it is between regular joes, not industry experts, is interesting in that it points out (as do one or two of the other links I've posted) that the English usage was previously disk and was changed over time to the latin rooted disc. Again, this has little to do with disk=computing disc=something else, which was your original assertion. http://everything2.com/title/disc%2520vs.%2520disk [everything2.com] Hope that helps explain where I was coming from. Back to work now...

    126. Re:Not good enough. by Walter+Carver · · Score: 1

      You can drop the optical disk to the gound and keep working. And it will hopefully last longer than a hard drive. It's for archiving things, like tapes.

    127. Re:Not good enough. by catmistake · · Score: 1

      Thanks!

  4. Holoduke by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Funny

    Will this hologram technology be capable of storing a Holoduke?

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Holoduke by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      I'd think it would take at least 2 holograffs to make a holomargrave, and three for a holoduke.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    2. Re:Holoduke by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Why? So you can watch John Wayne movies in glorious 3D?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  5. Long term reliability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No NYT account so I can't RTFA.

    What's the long-term reliability? (as I sit looking at a growing pile of failing hard disks)

    1. Re:Long term reliability? by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      Check BugMeNot for a login so you don't have to register.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    2. Re:Long term reliability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No NYT account so I can't RTFA.

      You must be new here...

  6. Long time ago.... by xpuppykickerx · · Score: 1

    Now if they could only replicate the technology from a Jedi holocron.

    1. Re:Long time ago.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will their first commercial feature Carrie Fisher saying "Help me Jeffrey R. Immelt, You're My Only Hope"???

  7. Hard drives are cheaper now. by jumpingfred · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1 terra byte drives cost around $100. That is 10 cents a gig at retail. So they cost less than 10 cents a gig to manufacture.

    1. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by RandoX · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you sold them for less than they cost to manufacture you'd qualify for bailout money.

    2. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by Gat0r30y · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you sold them for less than they cost to manufacture you'd qualify for bailout money.

      No. If you sold them for less than the cost of manufacture you would be a horizontally integrated Japanese manufacturer.

      --
      Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
    3. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      And are fixed storage. You obviously haven't R'ed TFA or you'd see that this is removable storage, like DVDs or Blu-ray.

      These are essentially DVDs that store around 450G for $45. Even Blu-ray discs are about $0.50/GB.

      That's a lot cheaper, and even if it takes so long for them to come out that BD discs are $0.05/GB, $0.10/GB for ten times the storage will be definitely affordable. These could be great backup solutions for homes or servers depending on the write speed.

    4. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you sold them for less than they cost to manufacture you'd qualify for bailout money.

      No. If you sold them for less than the cost of manufacture you would be a horizontally integrated Japanese manufacturer.

      Horizontal? That's old technology. You have to get perpendicular!

    5. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright AC - you gotta include the link to the Hitachi animation to get mod points for that comment. like so

    6. Re:Hard drives are cheaper now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haha penis!!

  8. Expensive by tom17 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They word the pricing to make it sound attractive, only 10c/GB, but that makes this 500GB disk a hideously expensive $50! That's too much.

    By the time this tech comes out, that will be orders of magnitude more than HD prices. Maybe even flash storage will be cheaper by then.

    1. Re:Expensive by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      Replying to help with the troll mod on Tom17. Redundant maybe because of the reply above him, but not troll.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    2. Re:Expensive by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      There are other considerations:

      First, quality. Is the holographic storage faster? Is it less likely to break? Can it handle a larger number of reads/writes?
      Second, $50 is for the 1st generation. The price comes down the quickest in the early generations, so it may achieve parity or even pass the pricepoint for current HD prices within a few years.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    3. Re:Expensive by afidel · · Score: 1

      When I got my first CDRW drive disks were $25 a piece and today they run about $.10 so just because a technology launches at an expensive price point doesn't mean it can't be a success. If they can show that the media is durable then it's going to do well with their initial target customers because the competition just isn't reliable enough for studios.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:Expensive by Rary · · Score: 1

      They word the pricing to make it sound attractive, only 10c/GB, but that makes this 500GB disk a hideously expensive $50! That's too much.

      And they're not even mentioning the cost of the drive, since this is only a disc.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    5. Re:Expensive by tom17 · · Score: 1

      And now compare hd prices from then and now too :)

    6. Re:Expensive by Tragedy4u · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you cut a piece of holographic film in half, each half contains the entire picture...just smaller and with a bit less detail.

      Thats part of the holographic principle, the original theory anyway was meant to make it MORE resilliant damage to the media was supposed to reduce it's capacity. Reality will likely be different from the original dream of course.

    7. Re:Expensive by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, and like all optical storage in the past, by the time it reaches price parity with hard drives, it will take so many of them to back up a single hard drive that it will be near useless. Remember when DVD-R seemed like it had promise? Well by the time I could afford to do a backup of my collection of HDs, I had to order two spools of a hundred to do it. BD-R is still only down to about $0.18/gig (and double that if you want 50 GB discs), so it still has to drop in half to reach parity, but the sweet spot for hard drives is 1TB, and it would take 40 of the 25 GB discs to back up one drive. That makes it very nearly useless for backups because you can't automate dozens of disc changes. So it still hasn't reached price parity and it is already way, way beyond impractical as a backup medium.

      For optical media to really matter to me, burners would need to be available at consumer prices this year so that they would be starting to make their way into mainstream computers by two years from now. That way it will only take 4-8 discs to back up an average hard drive by the time the burners are broadly available. Unfortunately, this is still in the laboratory stage, which means that it probably won't be in consumers' hands for at least five years. Assuming HD density continues to increase at somewhere approaching current levels, this will likely take over a hundred discs to back up a typical hard drive by the time consumers get it, making it even farther behind than Blu-Ray is today, and nearly as bad as DVDs are today. And ten cents a gig would be okay right now. By five years from now, that will be about 50 times more expensive per gig than hard drives, so roughly on par with Blu-Ray today cost-wise. Thus, by the time this comes out, the cost to back up a typical hard drive with this technology will be about 2.5x more expensive than it is today using Blu-Ray.

      Unless something changes fairly dramatically, I'd expect flash to make optical media completely obsolete within about five years. Optical media is already impractical for backups, for carrying around data with you, etc. and Internet downloads are rapidly becoming a viable replacement for physical media for movies and music. It's a shame; optical seemed like it had a lot of potential two decades ago, but the industry got way behind and can't seem to catch up. If anything, they seem to be rapidly falling farther behind.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Expensive by tom17 · · Score: 1

      Thank you, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

      Maybe I should be more verbose.

    9. Re:Expensive by ajdowntown · · Score: 1

      It is not the size that counts, it is how you use it!

    10. Re:Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see where you're going with this, but really... how many people have multiple terrabytes of data that really need to be backed up on a regular basis? Realistically, the only real application for this is to archive DVD's or Blu-Rays. You're not likely to fill up a 500gb disc with just MP3's or pictures are you?

      Shit- maybe you are.. can I get a copy of that collection?

    11. Re:Expensive by tom17 · · Score: 1

      I guess you haven't bought an HD camcorder lately. That stuff needs to be backed up man - I won't be able to re-film his first steps again when I lose all my home video.

  9. Data Integrity? by Plekto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real question is how robust the things are to scratches and other negative environmental effects. If it has to be enclosed in a case like the old Zip disks were, then it's effectively a fancy hard drive in a smaller and lighter format.(though slower by a huge margin I'd bet).

    Unless it's as damage resistant as a normal CD or DVD, it's not going to make a blip in the marketplace.

    1. Re:Data Integrity? by twidarkling · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It'd have to be *more* damage resistant, at that price. With flash drives up to 64GBs at a reasonable price, and growing all the time, and no word on if these are reusable, requiring a specific drive, etc etc. It'd be a hell of an uphill battle. Probably worse than Blu-Ray's got.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    2. Re:Data Integrity? by wjh31 · · Score: 1

      if it's data integrity IS comparable to that od CDs and DVDs, then its not really suitable for archiving. As an asside, even if it does cost 10c/GB, how much is it going to cost for the writer?

    3. Re:Data Integrity? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      That's the beauty of holograms. Every point on the hologram contains information about the whole picture.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:Data Integrity? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Asside.
      LOL.

    5. Re:Data Integrity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is fiber optic cable more reliable than copper wire for data transmission? i can't believe there's serious discussion on this topic.

    6. Re:Data Integrity? by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who's sworn off of optical media altogether? I don't burn CDs or DVDs any more, because I just can't trust the damned things to work after 3 years. Hard drives and Flash drives on the other hand... more convenient, harder to kill, and not much more expensive.

    7. Re:Data Integrity? by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      The only optical media I use is for installs (games, programs, movies), and I only use it the first time. After that, I try and keep an up-to-date image of my HDD jic.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
  10. How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I haven't even bought a Blu-Ray player yet.

    1. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      Gillian's island? I didn't know they gave Scully her own series!

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    2. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by cashman73 · · Score: 1

      Forget that! Just let me know how many Libraries of Congress this is? [OBLIGATORY

    3. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      It's not a series. It's a hidden Handicam on her private beach.

      Mrowr.

    4. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Should that be a new standard unit of data? The "Library of Congress" (LC)?

    5. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by jd · · Score: 1

      Is that what the Government wants you to believe?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    6. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by Aranykai · · Score: 1

      I dunno about that, but it would take over 3.2 Billion of them to reach the moon!

      --
      If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
    7. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be change I could believe in.

    8. Re:How many episodes of Gillian's Island is that? by sorak · · Score: 1

      Forget that! Just let me know how many Libraries of Congress this is? [OBLIGATORY

      If they're holograms, wouldn't it be more appropriate to see how many you can fit in an olympic-sized swimming pool?

  11. Hmmmm . . . by arizwebfoot · · Score: 1

    Are we talking about TB disks are that fit ipods and cell phones?

    Are these RW or preloaded?

    --
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
  12. Sure it would... by Nick+Driver · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...and it'll store it Forever too!

  13. Perhaps by Again · · Score: 1

    [...] perhaps in 2011 or 2012, holographic discs using its technology will be less than 10 cents a gigabyte [...]

    Yeah perhaps the disks will be that cheap. From the summary, I assumed that they were 10 cents a GB already...

    500GB disks that will cost 10 cents a GB to produce at launch

    But I guess you never can be too sure in life.

    1. Re:Perhaps by IAmGarethAdams · · Score: 1

      Correct. And when was the last time that something that cost 10 cents to produce was sold to the public at 10 cents?

  14. investment vs return by skathe · · Score: 1

    Seems like buying a SATA-USB bridge with a case and a 1TB hard drive (totaling less than $100)would be much more cost effective, not to mention durable, than buying a $50 disk.

    I can see the merit in having a single disk being able to store 500GB as a technological advancement (perhaps towards large capacity microSD cards and their ilk), but I fail to see how this works on a practical level as-is.

    1. Re:investment vs return by SethJohnson · · Score: 1

      I agree that for general use, a cheap hitachi 1gb hard drive makes more fiscal sense. There are other scenarios that make the optical disc attractive at its nearby price point. For installations that are susceptible to flooding or other water issues, an optical disc is much easier to retrieve data from after being dunked in water for a few days. It's doable on a hard drive, but not convenient or cheap. Also, anywhere weight is a consideration (space travel), one optical disc writer / reader and several optical discs will have a better data / weight ratio than several hard drives. In that scenario, the flash media option might work out better, though.

      None of these exotic demands, however, will see this technology become a successful standard.

      Seth

  15. Info from non-NYT (logins suck!) by psyclone · · Score: 1

    The company said it successfully recorded micro-holographic marks approaching 1% reflectivity, that is, its laser was able to pick up the reflection of 1 bit burned with a diameter of approximately one micron (a millionth of a meter). It means a laser was able to pick up the reflection of 1 bit burned into a substrate. When using standard DVD or Blu-ray disc optics, the scaled down marks will have sufficient reflectivity to enable more than 500GB of total capacity in a CD-size disc.

    Unlike today's DVDs and HD Blu-ray disks, holographic storage not only reads from the surface of the disc, but also into multiple layers of the substrate.

    GE's technology uses holograms, or three-dimensional patterns, made up of bits of data written into the disc, which can then be read out.

    GE said the micro-holographic storage technology is different from other optical-disc technology only in its capacity. The company claimed that its micro-holographic players will allow consumers to play back their CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray Discs as well as the holographic media.

    Above quote from Computer World

    1. Re:Info from non-NYT (logins suck!) by ryszard99 · · Score: 1

      GE's technology uses holograms, or three-dimensional patterns, made up of bits of data written into the disc, which can then be read out.

      emphasis mine. probably the single handiest thing this disk has to offer!

      --
      -- $_='ab-bc ratvarre';tr"'a-z'"'n-za-m'";print
  16. This would be great for archiving if WORM by mlts · · Score: 1

    I wasn't sure from the TFA, but previous holo disks were WORM media, where they were intended for archiving.

    With media this inexpensive, it would be a boon for both hospitals, but companies in general who have to archive everything, due to Sarbanes Oxley, HIPAA, CALEA, and other regulations.

    What GE will need to work on, once this comes out in a standard cartridge format, is some type of autochanger that can reliably move media in and out. In days of yore where companies had WORM optical media, one loaded a library with 50-100 disks, and as they got full, labeled them, swapped them out for empty ones, and either stored them in a tape safe, or dropped them in a tub for Iron Mountain to pick up and store.

    1. Re:This would be great for archiving if WORM by worip · · Score: 1

      When it comes to archiving, the critical thing really is the lifetime of the storage medium. We seem to be developing storage with higher and higher capacities, but with shorter and shorter life spans. The papyrus medium developed by the Egyptians are still readable today (although the information density is low, and the number of readers are few and far between!), compared to DVD-RWs that can hold a few GBs of data, but only has a shelf life of a few years.

      Paul Conway has an excellent piece on Preservation in the digital world and takes a look not only at the mediums, but also at the surrounding issues (readers, data formats, etc.).

      --
      A picture is worth exactly 1024 words.
  17. while we are talking about storage by wjh31 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    how the hell has OCZ's new 1TB 500MB/s PCI-E flash (http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_drives/ocz_z_drive_pci_express_ssd) drives not gotten a mention anywhere that ive seen.

    Yes ill probably get modded off topic, but it seems to me it's managed to fall below the radar where it shouldnt have

    1. Re:while we are talking about storage by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because it isn't such a great thing. Rather than a new memory controller that corrects the problems of the past, they just used a pair of old controllers.

      Tom's Hardware pretty much panned the product in its summary of flash drives.

    2. Re:while we are talking about storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.techfresh.net/ocz-z-drive-pci-express-ssd-pricing-unveiled/

      because it is $5100

  18. High Density Hot Air by JackSpratts · · Score: 4, Interesting

    High density discs and have been a PR staple for years. I'm still waiting for one announced in '99. Yes, disc capacity will increase gradually and at some point today's fat Blu-Rays will be hopelessly limited curios, but the trick isn't so much about jamming bits into ever smaller sectors as it is creating compatibility with installed player bases, burner ecosystems and jittery rights holders. GE doesn't come to mind as a company with experience getting that done, nevermind getting such consumer products in the stores or even out of the lab. Good luck guys but I don't see it happening.

    - js.

  19. Same longevity issues as other optical media? by macraig · · Score: 1

    If this technology suffers from the same longevity and data integrity issues that other rewritable optical media always has, then I don't want it to begin replacing magnetic media. The Next Big Thing in storage should be a step closer to the data longevity we enjoyed with cuniform tablets, not a step farther away. Speed and capacity aren't the only criteria for judging storage media. Media is, after all, supposed to store data... how well it does that is a big deal.

    1. Re:Same longevity issues as other optical media? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no real reason that archival media and rewritable media should be used in the same ways.

      If you want guaranteed longevity, used existing bulk archival. That works. If, on the other hand, this is not rewritable, then the point is moot, isn't it?

  20. For the same reasons we use discs now by dlenmn · · Score: 1

    This technology is for discs, like DVDs. So you'd use this for the same reasons we often use DVDs instead of hard drives; hard drives just aren't right for many applications (often because hard drives have moving parts that can break).

    1. Re:For the same reasons we use discs now by daveime · · Score: 3, Funny

      So that whirring spinning noise coming from my DVD player is just a trapped hamster then ?

    2. Re:For the same reasons we use discs now by dlenmn · · Score: 1

      I'd wager that sound isn't coming from the DVD.

      Of course the drive has moving parts. The point is that the disc and drive are easily separable so you can send one without the other.

  21. Why does it matter? by iris-n · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We have fast cheap broadband virtually everywhere in the civilised world (excluding US, of course). We have dirt cheap HDs.

    Video retailers are moving to streaming. Backups are done in RAID servers. Everyone has a thumb drive to carry small files or has a ftp server to transfer big ones.

    Why would anyone be burning discs today? I don't see why I should be excited by optical media technology. In the 90's this would be huge. Today, its just an interesting toy.

    --
    entropy happens
    1. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because someone in the finance dept. thought it would make more sense to finish the project than scrap the whole thing and guarantee a loss?

      They probably started developing this in the 90's. In fact I think I recall reading something in popular science or some other thing about holographic storage way back then.

    2. Re:Why does it matter? by wjh31 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      i dont buy that. in the uk the fastest provider is probably virgin who offer a 50Mbps connection, that is only 1.5Mbps up. Once you consider the requirements to leave a connection up long enugh, and for it to be realiable long enough to transfer, say, the 4.5GB of a DVD, its still easier to transfer it on a DVD, and we are still far far from 500GB being reasonable over current internet speed, even over a 100Mbps LAN it would take helava time

    3. Re:Why does it matter? by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How long does it take you to transfer 250 GB to the other side of town?

    4. Re:Why does it matter? by TurboNed · · Score: 1

      Indeed. As I once saw, "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a car full of CD-Rs." Or DVDs or BluRay discs or these holographic discs.

    5. Re:Why does it matter? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      It's pretty quick when I put it on my portable hard drive, which has many other functions besides transporting lots of data. I don't think it's all that common that people need to regularly transfer 250 GB of data across town, but we already have cheap ways of doing this. What's more, this won't cost us a $50 disk plus some $500 burner. Hell, for $50, you can already buy a 250GB portable hard drive!

    6. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would anyone be burning discs today?

      You're missing the big picture here. How do you expect Sony to price themselves out of the console market with the Playstation 4 if they don't have some widly expensive and unnecessary storage option? I mean come on. Think of all the textures developers will be able to store on 500GBs! Best of all, the cost of the disk gives them an excuse to bump game prices up another $40-50.

    7. Re:Why does it matter? by iris-n · · Score: 1

      Through my university, about 40 minutes. Through my home connection, about a day and a half. Even taking $LONG_TIME to write the disc and $LESS_LONG_TIME to read it, it would be faster to just burn the thing and driving it through traffic.

      But when I want to move such a huge amount of data around, I just take my external HD. Which probably already has that data written to it.

      The first home use I'd think for that is renting movies. But there aren't 250 GB movie files nowadays. I'm sure when they show up, broadband will be fast enough to take care of them. Just like today I can download 5 GB movies without breaking a sweat.

      --
      entropy happens
    8. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have fast cheap broadband virtually everywhere in the civilised world (excluding US, of course). We have dirt cheap HDs.

      Since when is the US part of the *civilised* world?

    9. Re:Why does it matter? by zx-15 · · Score: 1

      To quote Andrew Tanenbaum - "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck full of tapes hurling down the highway"

    10. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I'm in Oxford, UK, and thus have a gigabit connection. To transfer 250 gigs to the other side of town would take just over 2 hours. Good infrastructure works well.

    11. Re:Why does it matter? by rcastro0 · · Score: 1

      Now: Why would anyone need 500GB in a disk?
      Then: Why would anyone need more than 640k of RAM?
      Back when: I think there's a world market for perhaps 5 computers.

      --
      Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
    12. Re:Why does it matter? by tholomyes · · Score: 1

      "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -Andres S. Tanenbaum (author of MINIX)

      --
      When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
    13. Re:Why does it matter? by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

      So you have many PB of data to archive. Things you must store for a very long time, and can never loose without legal and severe monitory repercussions.

      Do you store this on a HDD array? So what if a virus wipes it out? So you have to keep a backup on tape. So how do you do that? Make a full backup once a week, incremental? That's a lot of duplicate backup.

      The solution is to store the data on optical disks. Many can be configured to write to two disks at the same time. You write to one which stays in the jukebox and another that gets ejected and took to a secure off site location.

      Now, using WORM, you don't have to worry about a virus. Never have I seen a virus infection destroy the erasable directory of a WORM disk which is all it could do. You don't have to worry about backing the data up.

      That's why we do it.

    14. Re:Why does it matter? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      How long does it take you to transfer 250 GB to the other side of town?

      Same amount of time it would take me to transfer several terabytes. Those kinds of speeds are calculated in mph not mb/sec.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    15. Re:Why does it matter? by keytoe · · Score: 1

      500GB isn't feasible with current optical tech, either. This won't change that unless the burn speed is better than writing to an external HD. Everyone using the whole 'how long to get the data across town' argument aren't factoring in the burn and read time from relatively slow optical disks. This is particularly true if you're trying to get 500GB of data onto 4.5GB DVDs (or even 50GB Dual Layer BD). Give me FW800 to an external 1TB HD and an Audi TT* and I'll show you throughput.

      Really, this is solving the wrong problem unless it brings some other compelling advantage. If one of these disks had a shelf life of 100 years or something, then we'd be talking. As a basic storage or data transfer mechanism, I'm not impressed.

      * No really. Give me one.

    16. Re:Why does it matter? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      Err, not so much.

      Then: 640k aught to be enough for anybody. Nobody will ever need any more. We could probably do better, but nah, you don't need it.
      Now: 500GB isn't even close to enough for anybody. Indeed, 500GB isn't even close, furthermore, by the time this product comes into its prime, we're going to have an Internet that negates any usefulness of it.

    17. Re:Why does it matter? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      What a funny Internet you use. Where everything is transferred and never stored. How do you send data from point A to point B with no source disk?

    18. Re:Why does it matter? by sepiroth · · Score: 1

      Thirty minutes by bike.

    19. Re:Why does it matter? by acheron12 · · Score: 1

      For that I'd use a laptop or USB harddrive.

      --
      there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
    20. Re:Why does it matter? by austior · · Score: 1

      And that's why internet 2 will just be complicated network of pneumatic tubes.

    21. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      40 minutes for 1TB of data. I take my USB brick with me as I get some pizza and deliver the hardware. Oh, you meant over my 'net link... Lemme see. That'd be over a month ('bout 6 weeks), at reasonable? speeds (250kb/s and carrier fluff) and it'd be faster to ship the hardware to India and back rather than over the net.

    22. Re:Why does it matter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      since your MOM!!

    23. Re:Why does it matter? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      that would be fun indeed!!

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    24. Re:Why does it matter? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 1

      /dev/random man! It's in there somewhere.

      My point is that a 500GB disc is pretty useless, especially if it costs $50. I can buy a 1TB hard drive for not much more than that and it's going to be more reliable, faster, etc. When I need to transfer that data, I can do so over the 'net. No need to spend $50 on a disc plus another dollar or two to mail it!

  22. ...have to buy the White album again... by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    This has, I would suggest, a very, very slim market. Home users won't bother, because it costs more (significantly more at 10c/GB to produce) than an external HD. Hollywood won't bother, because BR still has lots of legs and I don't foresee QHD becoming mainstream any time soon. By then, the video algorithms may have even caught up with the resolution jump and we still won't need more than 50GB for a film. IT won't bother, because if it doesn't go reel to reel it's not a "real" backup solution.

    About the only real reason to use this format is distribution of very large data sets to parties locked into a proprietary reader format (medical imaging and digital cinema seemed to be the thrust). That's a pretty low volume marketplace to be pitching to. Oh well, at least it will give justification for high medical costs and high ticket prices at the theater.

    FWIW, the search for the holy grail of optical storage was started when CDs held 30x the typical hard drive size. The sheer cavernous storage of 650MB in a 5-20MB hard drive world was so enticing, that it seemed logical that some other removable optical storage would surely keep ahead of hard drives. Backing up 3MB with a box full of $1 floppies was a pain. Backing up a server with a box full of $100 discs just isn't quite as attractive. (For the record, it would take 5 of these to back up my server - though 90% of that is actually a backup of 300 physical DVDs which rest sticky-finger-free in a box in a closet - but the thought of re-ripping all those in a catastrophic failure is not a pleasant one)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  23. properties of holograms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't RTFA but I do know a bit about holograms. Normal holograms have several properties that could be extremely useful as media devices because of the way they store information. The major one being that every piece of a hologram contains the full hologram. So if you were to make a 10ft by 10ft hologram plate and cut it into pieces of 1 sq in, every one would contain the full image only at lower power. (I don't remember how it scales.) Theoretically, a holographic plate can store a very large number of images related to the degree of incidence of the laser reflection onto the plate. So image another image every 1/2 a degree through about 140 degrees. There are practical limitations with this idea because I've only seen up to 3 images per plate. The plates can also be double exposed at a specific angle, so you can analyze how an image changes due to a condition.

    If this new storage contains any of these features, I'd be glad to pay a bit more for it compared to the standard hard drives or DVDs to secure my data. This would be a whole new way to store data and has the potential to store a lot more of it and store it more or less indefinitely.

  24. Media Lifetime is important too! by stardude82 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you look at all the projected lifetimes of Fe-LiNiO3 devices, which I guess is they system they are talking about in their glorified press releases, they are supposed to be around 100 years at operating temperatures! Compare that to the 30 some years of DVD-R media!

    Though it still isn't as good as some chalcogenide based phase change materials which are predicted to last for 100's of years, it is important step in keeping our data around.

    1. Re:Media Lifetime is important too! by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Stone works for me, but the motors needed to turn those suckers are huge. I tried horses for awhile to turn them, but they just pooped on the platters, causing massive bit(or insert similar sounding joke here) errors.

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  25. Specs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any idea on the drive specs? Throughput, read/write latency, durability ?

  26. Preloaded with porn? by toejam13 · · Score: 1

    Many technological inventions have had their adoption assisted when the porn industry started making use of it. Perhaps GE will quietly partner with an adult entertainment company, who in turn, will release these discs preloaded with hours and hours of 1080p video. Mmmm... holographic boobies.

    1. Re:Preloaded with porn? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      No one preloads with porn.

      Virii on the other hand seems to be a common preloaded data set now days :/

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  27. Could also be... by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We need a stock bump.

    --
    There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    1. Re:Could also be... by RajivSLK · · Score: 1

      More likely, we need some stimulus funds. I've notice more and more stories like this since the stimulus funds have become available.

  28. Not really thinking, are we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much were writable CDs when they first came out? Over $100, right?
    How much were writable DVDs when they first came out? Over $100, right?

    So at $50/disk for a brand new technology, it sounds pretty cheap to me. If the standard catches on (if the same drive can read CD and DVD, and store 500gb onto a writable disk, it sounds like it's possible), how long until their disks reach the price writable CDs and DVDs are at?

    The problem with a lot of the snide slashdot kiddies is that they aren't old enough to have seen all this before. Or if they have, they've just failed to learn anything from the experience.

    Create new tech, let it get popular, it gets cheaper, then it becomes low cost. Rince, repeat, ad infinitum.

  29. But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by serutan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    CDs can store more than an hour of uncompressed audio, yet here we are 20 years after music CDs hit the market and they still contain the same 35-40 minutes of music as vinyl records.

    The movie industry's way of coping with DVDs that can store far more than one movie has been to put one movie on a DVD, and load up the extra space with previews, outtakes, commentary, and all kinds of other crap that's not a movie.

    How will the movie industry handle a DVD that can store 100 movies? Maybe by grouping them, for example the Star Trek series or films by the same director or main actor. But based on history I'm guessing won't put more than 5 or 6 movies on a disc plus hours and hours of "bonus" material.

    1. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by ZOmegaZ · · Score: 1

      Lots of CDs have more than 35-40 minutes of music, and lots of DVDs don't use the full space either. They'll go with the most widely compatible discs that are cheapest to manufacture, and if space is wasted, well, who cares?

    2. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would love it if the studios would put the Star Trek movies onto two Blu-Ray, or the two Star Wars trilogies into two Blu-Rays. Then put all the extra content onto a separate disk. Will never happen though :(

    3. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember those books where you can choose your own story?
      "Turn to page 53 if you take the blue pill..."
      There are ideas going around from directors & artists who will make movies in a similar fashion.

    4. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by mad_minstrel · · Score: 1

      5 or 6? Never. They'll put a single movie on a disk using the computationally cheapest compression and fill the largest possible space with it, slap on 20 minutes of cheap marketing materials and sell it at a premium. Of course, the master will be nowhere near good enough to fill 500GBs with meaningful data, so the enthusiast market will drone over how well defined the film grain is. That's the future. Oh, wait, no, it's already happening with bluray.

      --
      May the source be with you.
    5. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by eric-x · · Score: 1

      40 minutes? What weird ass music do you buy?

    6. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same way they handle BD, they turn down the compression until the disk is full. Or do you seriously belive you need 45GB for a two hour movie?

    7. Re:But will the Entertainment Industry use it? by Lunzo · · Score: 1

      The only music CDs I've bought which have ~40mins of music were CD releases of old vinyl albums. Most newer CDs I buy have closer to 1hour.

  30. to produce by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    No, you missing the point. It will cost 10 cents / gig TO PRODUCE. It will sell at a lot more than that. Why would you not want to buy into a new technology when it is much more expensive than the terabyte hard drives that you could buy and use today?

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:to produce by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Pretty much what I came here to say. Why buy a 500gb drive that when it comes out is going to be a lot more expensive than the 1tb drive that's out NOW.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    2. Re:to produce by MXPS · · Score: 0

      You're right, because production methods never become more efficient over time...

    3. Re:to produce by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      I guess you're just playing dumb, but the point isn't about some mythical future, it's about how viable the device will be when it comes out. If it can't compete when it comes out, then economy of scale will never kick in and it will not get cheaper to produce or sell. The stated price of the media TO PRODUCE is $50 a disc. That's going to equate at a minimum to a $100 street price, maybe as high as $200. And that is just for the media, imagine what the hardware that deals with $100-200 media costs. And obviously hard drive prices are already dropping fast and will continue to drop, a 1.5 TB drive with 3x the capacity can already be bought for what one .5 tb piece of media can be projected to cost if it ever makes it to market, wouldn't need an extra multi-hundred dollar drive, and would be compatible with far more computers.

      There have been other magical disc formats hyped. I remember a few years ago a 1 gig optical disc the size of a quarter was shown at CES. There was all kinds of hype in the media about it, how it was going to change everything and be everywhere. I'm not sure if it ever really made it to market, but if it did those early adopters were screwed, invested in expensive equipment that they can't even get media for now. The disc was bright and shiny and had quite a "wow factor", but realistically you could look at the technology and see that it wasn't going to win, while flash drives and flash memory were no where near a competitive size at the time, it was apparent that they were headed that way and that this new optical technology would not be able to compete without the hype. In this case we don't even have to project where hard drive prices will be when this turkey comes out, they already have it beat. It's just not going to make it in the market, and so there will never be a price improvement, unless you want to buy a burner in the close out sale and not be able to get media later.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  31. Disks only; no drive by noidentity · · Score: 1

    500GB disks that will cost 10 cents a GB to produce at launch. GE will first focus on selling the technology to commercial markets like movie studios

    While they're launching the disks, there is unfortunately no drive to read them yet. The movie studios have no problem with that, though; they actually see this as a strong positive.

  32. Holograms vs. Layers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last I heard about optical development was a multi-layered DVD. It had about the same capacity: 25 layers/disc by 4G/layer = 100 G/disc.

    Too bad these are mostly vaporware articles because this would be nice from an archivist's point of view. I am not sure of the lifetime of magnetic disks sitting in drawers for 100 years. Optical seems to have a much better chance in that environment.

  33. Optikal disks by tepples · · Score: 1

    When applied to computers and periphals, it is always "disk" with a "k". "Disc" only came into use as the Compact Disc

    Blu-ray Disc also uses "disc", as does the DVD Forum's semi-official expansion of DVD as "digital versatile disc". The pattern here is that optical storage uses "disc", while magnetic storage uses "disk".

    1. Re:Optikal disks by bentcd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Blu-ray Disc also uses "disc", as does the DVD Forum's semi-official expansion of DVD as "digital versatile disc". The pattern here is that optical storage uses "disc", while magnetic storage uses "disk".

      And, of course, the 1990s-era magneto-optical "disck" completes the taxonomy.

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    2. Re:Optikal disks by Gospodin · · Score: 1

      fsck that!

      --
      ...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
    3. Re:Optikal disks by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      DVD Forum's semi-official expansion of DVD as "digital versatile disc"

      That's crap. DVD is not an acronym. It just means DVD. Anyway, if you've noticed, all your examples involve stuff from the music and movie industry, which involve computers only secondarily.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:Optikal disks by stevenvi · · Score: 1

      DVD is not an acronym. It just means DVD.

      Really now? I remember when they were new, they were called "Digital Video Discs," and when it became used for purposes other than videos, they changed it to mean "Digital Versatile Disc."

      Not that Wikipedia is a credible source, but...

      DVD, also known as "Digital Versatile Disc" or "Digital Video Disc," is an optical disc storage media format.

    5. Re:Optikal disks by tepples · · Score: 1

      DVD is not an acronym. It just means DVD.

      Officially this is true. But I said "semi-officially" because "Digital Versatile Disc" appears on the web site of DVD Forum, one of the regulating bodies of the DVD format.

      all your examples involve stuff from the music and movie industry

      Since when does DVD-ROM involve the music and movie industry? With Compact Disc, CD-ROM is a hack on top of CD-DA, adding sync bytes, sector ID bytes, and extra error correction coding to a group of 24-byte frames (and setting the mute bit in the frames' subchannel) to create semi-reliable 2048-byte sectors. But with DVD, the ROM came first, and DVD Video is just a specification for how to interpret files in the VIDEO_TS folder.

  34. Future tech by chebucto · · Score: 1

    To all the physicists out there: what are the theoretical limits to holographic storage? Could you use, say, a 1m x 1m cube to store a few yottabytes?

    --
    The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
  35. Have to ship bandwidth over 0.05 Mbps by tepples · · Score: 1

    Remember, you don't need to ship bandwidth

    Yes you do. It's called pulling cable. There are parts of the United States that still can't get DSL or DOCSIS service, where 0.05 Mbps is considered a "good connection".

  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  37. who needs this much storage? ;-) by pig_man1899 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It is the year 2109 and they have just released a disc that can hold all the data ever created by mankind. Now selling in 50 and 100 packs.

    --
    The manifest absurdity of it is too obvious to require explanation
    1. Re:who needs this much storage? ;-) by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      give me a 100 pack of those 100 packs!!

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  38. holo what? by gibbson · · Score: 1

    I want my holodisk with my holonovel now. Can i be the first to Brand this? oh.. maybe someone already has.

  39. It's not for you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    $0.10/gb * 500 GB = $50. I can buy a 1 TB hard drive for around $80. Why would I use this stuff?

    Would you rather drive a Volkswagon or a Porche? They both do the same thing.
    You seem to have missed the point where it's targeted at commercial (and I would imagine, military) applications. If you only keep your data on a sheltered computer desk, maybe not so much. Comparing holo to a solid state drive would be more appropriate, where 1 TB ~~$1500+.

    With both holographic and solid state:
    - No moving parts, shock-damage is limited to physical chips or cracks in the medium.

    With only holographic:
    - No risk of EM interference
    - No electric charge needed to maintain data integrity

    Ultimately it's an important development simply to place more data in a smaller space. We're already stacking magnetic bits on their ends instead of flat, and interference between them will create a physical density limit. A Blu-ray beam reads a pit 150 nanometers in size, holographic beams converge at 1.5 nanometers. I don't own a 50GB BD-R/W drive yet, but a "disc" with one-hundred times the storage and nearly infinite re-writing at very close to the speed of light will sound pretty good in about 10-15 years.

    Enjoy your punch buggy. :)

  40. GE - Generally Evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's too bad this is a product of Generally Evil because it looks very promising. Since it's been developed by a company that loves Iran, pushes political agendas through it's MSNBC organization in order to make profits. I think I'll skip it.

    You can keep you mercury filled CFLs and I'll generate as much CO2 as I want thank you. I'm not paying you a tax every time I breath.

    Although, maybe that would cut down on the hot air from Washington.

    DOWN WITH GENERALLY EVIL!!!!!

    1. Re:GE - Generally Evil by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

      You are just a W lovin' shill....

      How dare you introduce facts into this discussion.

      It is not like GE is going to profit more that any other company on green products because they are pushing them like a drug pusher.

      --
      Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  41. Again? by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    Holographic Memories, Scientific American, November 1995, by Psaltis & Mok

    A very good article on the principles involved in holographic storage. It focuses on solid state storage systems -- relatively large 3D lattices storage in a crystal or block of doped material. The robot that navigated its way around the lab using holographically stored images is very cool. The technology involved made use of a technique that the disks can't -- the playback beam is an image of a target, and produces an output beam from every storage cell being illuminated (up to all of them), the strength being proportional to the similarity to the target. Finding a match or closest-to is a simple matter of finding the strongest output and looking at it.

    Much of the work examined was done at Stanford. They've continued developing the research, and recently announced that they holographically stored a 35 bit images "in the quantum space of a single electron" http://storagemojo.com/2009/02/03/quantum-holographic-storage/ (I assume they mean an electron's orbit). Like the 3D solid state devices before, it can stack holograms, storing two images in the same space.

    In keeping with the device described in TFA, let's keep with as much current technology as possible. At 70 bit per electron, an iron atom could carry 227 bytes plus a 4 bit checksum. As iron oxide, each molecule would have 34 electrons, giving 297 bytes plus checksum. It would take 3367003367 molecules of iron oxide to carry a terabyte. What's the density of iron oxide on a disk in terms of molecules per given area? I can't find a reference, but I'm sure 3.4 billion molecules would be a tiny portion of the platter. A standard hard drive could carry enormous amounts, or disks could be made much smaller, such as the sub-inch drives (Ob/.SciFiRef) shown in Johnny Mnemonic.

    As for the annoucement in TFA, there have been many such announcements from different companies for the last decade, prompting one respondent to one of the many articles to call holographic storage systems the Duke Nukem Forever of data storage. Doing a web search on various permutations of "holography" "holographic" "data" "storage" etc. produces a multitude of announcements, articles, mention of articles, second hand accountings of same, and so forth.

    I've no doubt that sooner or later there will be some very expensive storage devices that a very few will be able to afford and even less make full use of. Government can afford such things and the health care industry has the cash flow plus tax write offs for business equipment. I've also no doubt the first adopters will end up stranded with expensive door stops. But these are the usual and apparently necessary steps before we can obtain the technology at more reasonable cost.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Again? by Plekto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In keeping with the device described in TFA, let's keep with as much current technology as possible. At 70 bit per electron, an iron atom could carry 227 bytes plus a 4 bit checksum. As iron oxide, each molecule would have 34 electrons, giving 297 bytes plus checksum. It would take 3367003367 molecules of iron oxide to carry a terabyte. What's the density of iron oxide on a disk in terms of molecules per given area?
      ****
      1.1x10^22 atoms per gram of iron. I get 3,276,000,000 Terrabytes in a milligram of iron stored this way. (3.276 Zettabytes if I'm counting the number of zeros on my calculator correctly.)

      Note - this might blow a hole in the idea of quantum limits on computing if we move from atoms to electrons.

  42. Call me When..... by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

    You make a disc with enough capacity to download my entire brain onto it. Until then, stop getting my hopes up.

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    1. Re:Call me When..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make a disc with enough capacity to download my entire brain onto it. Until then, stop getting my hopes up.

      Based on this post, it's been done for 10 years :-).

  43. ISP caps by tepples · · Score: 1

    How long does it take you to transfer 250 GB to the other side of town?

    It depends on whether or not your town has an ISP that isn't dial-up and doesn't cap its customers at 5 GB per month.

  44. GE is one of the big 6 media conglomerates. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... creating compatibility with ... jittery rights holders. GE doesn't come to mind as a company with experience getting that done, ...

    Huh?

    GE is one of the six conglomerates that, together, own 90% of the media in the US. It's big on movies, broadcasting, cable, news, ... For starters it owns NBC and Universal. See Wikipedia for a more complete list.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:GE is one of the big 6 media conglomerates. by JackSpratts · · Score: 1

      Re:Huh?

      RCA was the last of the GE units to push any kind of consumer electronic standards onto American consumers but their final true successes were the NTSC color TV and 45 RPM polystyrene disc systems 50 years ago. Their 70s videodisc and tape formats were flops or nonstarters and in any event GE spun off the unit to Thompson decades ago after the acquisition. Meanwhile the media unit they do have, NBC/Universal, isn't a player in international consumer electronics but is in direct competition with other rights holders.

      - js.

    2. Re:GE is one of the big 6 media conglomerates. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      RCA was the last of the GE units to push any kind of consumer electronic standards onto American consumers but their final true successes were the NTSC color TV and 45 RPM polystyrene disc systems 50 years ago. ...

      My point is that GE is itself a rights holder, not that it has recent success in pushing OTHER rights holders into its formats.

      Like Sony, if it comes up with a productized medium of enormous capacity it has enough "content" of its own to launch it. Then the competition needs an alternative of similar capacity to even attempt a Betamax/VHS style war. If there isn't one, they can pile onto the bandwagon or watch their lunch get eaten.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  45. I'm still waiting for bubble memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want my flying car and bubble memory!

  46. FOr Content Creators by thenguyens2008 · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't buy it either, as consumers...not yet. However, I think it is attractive to content creators as there is alot of space to use for more detail/information. Blu-ray drives have gone down quite a bit, now under $100 I have seen. Eventually it will prob replace your regular DVD discs, which for me replaced most of my CD-roms.

  47. let's hope this actually goes into by alizard · · Score: 1

    the computing marketplace.

    Terabyte-range optical storage has been pushed as coming Real Soon Now for the last few years. I don't want it Real Soon Now, I want it now ... right now, it takes a dozen DVD-9 disks to back up my HD. Or one 500G GE optical disk. Hopefully, demand will be sufficient to get the price down to prosumer levels.

    1. Re:let's hope this actually goes into by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      maybe instead of using an optical disc for backup, you could use another big hard disk?

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  48. Oh, now be fair. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Funny

    Based on this post, it's been done for 10 years :-).

    Oh, now be fair. He didn't once utter the phrases, "What?", "I don't understand" or "Where's the tea?"

    -FL

    1. Re:Oh, now be fair. . . by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is where is the tea?

      --
      Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    2. Re:Oh, now be fair. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is where is the tea?

      Oh dear. A response like that was highly improbable.

      -FL

  49. Announcment! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I have just created the highest speed network.

    It consists of:

    1 Boeing 747 Large Cargo Freighter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747_Large_Cargo_Freighter

    5,411,764 Blu-ray Disc (100 pc - 7.5" x 12.5" x 22") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

    That is:

    270,588,200GB traveling at about 900km/h

    My math isn't good enough (or I am lazy) to figure out what that is GB/s, but I bet it is pretty darn fast. Seek time may be a bitch though.

    1. Re:Announcment! by jjeffries · · Score: 1

      Google can do that for ye.

      http://www.google.com/search?&q=270%2C588%2C200GB+x+900+km%2Fh

  50. No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NT

  51. Too bad it's already been sold by giftedtiger74 · · Score: 1

    Anyone else notice that GE sold their plastics division overseas in 2007 because it was just barely breaking even and the market wasn't expected to grow in 2007-2008. But it sounds like they had this in the works since 2003? Why are they selling off R&D units? Are they mad?

  52. Re:GE Supports Iran, sells products and Technology by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1

    Sort of right. GE is not a good corp, but any vitriol directed at Iran is the result of propaganda. I find it amazing after the Iraq debacle that people are still capable of being tricked by state/Israeli sponsored nonsense.

    But if you've not figured that out by now, all words to the contrary are probably wasted air. If only we could export blind ignorance and violent stupidity as commodities, the nation's economic woes would be vanquished. Oh. . , hold on. No, that's what got us into this mess in the first place.

    *sigh*

    -FL

  53. Hospitals?!? by Briareos · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because hospitals like to be on the bleeding edge of data storage technology and will of course commit their patients' precious data on some zany new technology.

    Just like the hospital I work for, of course.

    Oh, wait...

    np: Dakota Suite - This Failing Sea (The End Of Trying)

    --

    "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

  54. Two Years Behind InPhase Holographic disks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good grief! GE is a giant company that can afford the press to make it seem like they invented this. IBM developed the basic idea years ago and INPhase Storage corporation has sold a 600 Gig Holographic disk for two years. INPhase will release a Terabyte disc this year. They last for at least 50 years and you can store them underwater if you like. Is this like Microsoft Corporation inventing the browser?

  55. Pointless by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    So your whole collection would fit on one disc, what is the point in wanting to carry around a pile of such discs?

    At a cost of $50 a disc to produce, how much do you think that disc will cost in the stores? Hint: Everything else you buy in the computer store costs 3-4 times the cost of production, do you think that GE is going to change that, particularly if people have already paid an outrageous price for a burner and so are willing to pay the price? How much would that pile of discs you plan to carry around in a sack have set you back?

    Where are you going to carry this expensive pile of over priced optical discs to? With a hard drive (1.5 tb is often available at just over $100 now, and you could even put it in a e-SATA case for a total cost less than 1 piece of this hyped media. And a portable 1.5 TB drive in an e-sata case could be used on many modern systems. But this media is only useful where a very expensive drive can access it, and these will be few and far between. So don't start throwing thousands of dollars of holographic media into your backpack just yet.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  56. Seen It Before Along Time Ago..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember watching something on TV back in the 80's about storing data on crystal cubes that were about 1cm square. Data was stored in holographic form, and could hold, as I remember "the equivalent of 50 full-length feature films" on it. It was either on the Discovery Channel, NOVA, Beyond 2000, or some program with David Suzuki or that British guy (they both did *alot* of science & technology programs), I can't quite remember which.

    It was really cool, resembling something like the crystal from the movie "The Fortress".

    I'm quite surprised that it still hasn't made the jumps that most other fields of technology have made.

  57. Why a disk? by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    Disk-based storage is so Thomas Edison. Is there any reason to think solid-state storage won't be catching up to disks in terms of density, longevity, price, etc. anytime in the foreseeable future?

    I mean c'mon people! It's the 21st century and our computing machines still have motors in them!

  58. correction by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    Correction, it wasn't a 1 gig device, it was a 500 meg device. Here's a link to one of the early hypes about it: http://www.howstuffworks.com/ces20012.htm . This device will be just as popular as the Data Play disc has become. And no one will care that the sconomy of scale has not kicked in because no one will use it.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  59. Fluff Story by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Anyone got some real meat on this?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  60. Optimism by pierson007 · · Score: 1

    I think this technology is a great opportunity to explore other means to save data. If this is successful this will be a technology that will replace hard drives and provide an easier way to store data This would be great for portable devices like laptops.

  61. Enough with the disk shape by ReedYoung · · Score: 1

    I know, backwards compatibility. But, if the medium is a hemisphere, it doesn't have to move. The "laser" would be a much smaller moving part so it could be made to move faster, improving access times.

    --
    "I can't imagine how things could get any worse!" (some guy) "That could just be failure of imaginatioÂn on your p
  62. Not big enough. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Call me when you have something that can hold 200 kiloquads of data.

  63. This sounds familiar by Eil · · Score: 1

    TFA:

    G.E. expects that when they are introduced, perhaps in 2011 or 2012, holographic discs using its technology will be less than 10 cents a gigabyte -- and fall in the future.

    Hmm. Okay, so 2-3 years from now, the cost per GB for this new technology will be about the same as today's cost (10-15 cents per GB).

    I'm sorry, but I hate hate HATE it when companies do this. Go and read some R&D press releases. Without fail, they always say that although they're years away from the market, the consumer price of the end product will be about the same or slightly less than what we pay for current similar (but inferior) technology. Usually not significantly cheaper (unless it'll let them use some phrase like "pennies per square foot") and never will it cost more, regardless of the advantages.

    I wonder, do they hire psychics who can can foresee all of the engineering and manufacturing hurdles that they're going to face whilst bringing it to market? Have they bought a time machine and know not only what their raw materials will cost in 5 years, but how consumers will be using technology by then? Do they have spies planted in R&D labs around the world so that they know exactly what they'll need to do in order to compete?

    If they knew all of this, it wouldn't take them years to introduce the product in the first place!

  64. The Gaming Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally I think this will be a great asset in the gaming markets where larger and larger amounts of space are needed. As of now a lot of games are pushing DVD's to the limits and multiple DVD's are sometimes needed to hold an entire game.

    Well now that Blue Ray is slowly becoming more and more mainstream they will most likely start using Blue Ray disks for gaming storage as graphics, content, and multimedia increases. However as history shows by the time Holographic Storage is mainstream enough to where its cost effective for the normal consumer games will be most likely at the point of being ready to utilize more storage. This is especially prevalent as 3D possibilities are starting to be considered more and more.

    Ultimately its summed up in the fact that Technology drives innovation and innovation drives technology.

  65. Time to move to flash-based media? by phoenix_rizzen · · Score: 1

    It would be so much nicer if the consumer industry would abandon optical disks for something like a flash-based "cartridge". SD cards are a bit too small, physically, for this purpose, but the technology behind them is pretty much perfect.

    Come out with a physical form-factor around the size of a floppy diskette or maybe a GameBoy game: big enough to not lose too easily, small enough to not hog a lot of shelf space, lots of room internally to store flash chips. Put a controller onto the diskette/cartridge, and use a standardised physical interface.

    Voila! A future-proof storage medium. Need more space? Just put more (and/or higher-density) flash chips inside. The hardware interface doesn't have to change. The reader hardware doesn't have to change. And you don't have to worry about wear-levelling and what-not, as it's a read-only setup.

    You could even reserve a little section of the storage space to include the media codec, so you could "upgrade" the player when you play the media. No more format wars!! Turns the player into a "dumb" device, with a general-purpose CPU/DSP/whatever, where all the smarts needed to play the media is included with the media. (Isn't that how Blu-Ray works?)

    Learn from the harddrive market: a single IDE connector/controller can be used for drives as small as 10 MB and as large as 500 GB (I think that was the largest IDE drive). A single SATA connector/controller can be used for drives as small as 80 GB and as large as 2 TB.

    Standardise the physical interface ... and you can change the innards as needed.

    This could be used for pretty much any kind of media: audio/music, video, applications, you name it.

    Of course, the RIAA/MPAA would have a coronary if this ever happened. No more forced re-purchasing of your entire library (Beta -> VHS -> DVD -> HD-DVD -> Blu-Ray -> whatever; vinyl -> 8-track -> cassette -> MD -> CD -> DVD -> whatever). No more forced upgrades of your home theatre equipment to read the latest optical format. Etc.

    But wouldn't that be an end-user nirvana!?

  66. really? by drfool · · Score: 1
    I'm sorry, but if you need to back up a terrabyte of information, optical media is not even a serious option. You're comparing apples and oranges here. People don't buy DVDs to back up their filesysytem, that's just retarded, they buy DVDs for
    • DVD movies
    • Software

    Don't even try to make the argument that a DVD is not a good distribution media, optical media is far from "obsolete". I would NEVER install any peice of software or OS that required 25 gigs, not even 10, 5 I will only allow for an OS but any more than 5 and I question the integrity of the source. I will say it now, if ever there comes a day where new Linux distros require something outrageous like 25 gigs to install, I will never use a [new] Linux distro again.

    "Optical media is obsolete", do you have any idea what you are saying? Insightful? Are there that many Macbook Air(tm) users on slashdot?

    1. Re:really? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Of the software I've obtained in the past five years, the only ones I've gotten on physical media have been Mac OS X DVDs and Adobe products, and only because it is so large and thus hard to back it up. Everything else has been a download. And Im not at all atypical in that regard. With reasonable backup technology, the need for buying software is diminishing.

      I still use DVDs for movies, but I haven't bought a physical CD in about six years. The only reasons I buy physical DVDs are the bonus features and the price. For first-run movies, the prices are comparable, but for older movies, DVDs tend to be much cheaper than downloads. When those two things change (and I suspect they eventually will), I won't buy DVDs anymore, either. Again, though, we need something better for backups than what we currently have.

      And no, I do not have a MacBook Air, but my reasons for not buying one have nothing to do with lack of an optical drive and everything to do with my substantial dependence on FireWire.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  67. chalcogenide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    chalcogenide doesnt last long at all. its main benefit is its very large nonlinearity and refractive index its tendency to change over short time spans (weeks to months) makes it difficult to use even within research

  68. There should be a special section of slashdot... by whiledo · · Score: 1

    This is the best thing since Fluorescent Multilayer Disc!

    Also, did anyone else do the math on this?

    500GB disks that will cost 10 cents a GB to produce at launch

    So that's $50 per disk, production cost? You can get a 100 pack of 4.7 gig DVDs for about $30. By my count that's around 470 gig. And that's purchase price, not production cost.

    --
    Moderators: Before moderating a comment Insightful/Informative, check to see if a child post has already refuted it.
  69. I already do that by alizard · · Score: 1

    I update my HD mirror 3x a week using a copy of Knoppix modified to add custom backup scripts and the mirror lives in a drive rack plugged in ONLY when I'm doing backup. The optical storage is for portable, durable offsite backup and/or the case where the first HD fries followed by whatever killed the first HD doing the same to the second one.

  70. Sales prediction.... by rew · · Score: 1

    Storing lots of data on this system means I pay, on average about $0.10 per Gb, plus the cost of the reader, right? Lets see how much cheaper this is than just buying harddrives. 1.5Tb costs $100, so that comes to $0.066 per Gb... Ooops.... It's more expensive than harddrives.

    Let me predict: It won't sell....

  71. Re: Why does it matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It will be portable unlike a hard disk and the price will come down dramatically over time.

  72. Some Breakthroughs BREAK something others just TRY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some breakthroughs BREAK something others just try to break those that do !

    I think they are floating this breakthrough NOW because they fear someone else's breakthrough that is about to be announced, although I believe the announcement from Berkley a month or two ago about thin film storage over aluminum and other substrates was MORE DENSE then this one, so they might just be trying to get attention back.

    And THAT was just a clever refinement of existing processes so there could be announcements of new products of that type soon.

    My gut tells me GE is the MOST POLITICAL company on the planet !!!!!!