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Auto Warranty Robocall Scammers Busted
ectotherm writes "The nice people behind the recorded phone messages stating 'By now you should have received your written note regarding your vehicle warranty expiring...' — the ones who instantly hang up when you ask for the name of the company — have been busted. Fox News did a little background digging on the four people charged." Don't know about you, but I received three or four postcards in the mail from these scammers, as well as uncountable robocalls. The FTC says they cleared $10M since 2007.
...went something like this.
"WTH is this? Scammers?"
*Press 1*
"Hello, what's the make of your vehicle?"
"May I ask who I'm speaking to?"
*click*
--
After receiving (and hanging up on) a few more of these calls, I can't say I'm sorry to see their asses getting handed to them in court.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.
Asked if I had seen a .. Sandra O'Connor... or something like that. I forget.
....to never run the same scam over and over? Oh right, because they are greedy crooks.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
I get the stupid post cards too.. Makes me wonder how they know my Honda warranty is going to expire? Despite the fact I purchased the extended manufactor 2 year warranty? The knew about the first year but didn't know about the extended warranty so I can only guess somehow they been digging through public records about car purchases or ca registurations. Sounds like complete invasion of privacy to me!!
However, I never recieved one phone call from folks like that... Hmmm
It was kinda obvious to me that this was a scam when they told me my warranty for the car was due to expire soon.
I don't have a car.
Waiting for an amusing sig.
I'm so conflicted... Fox News actually reporting something that affects me in a positive way? I don't know how to feel!
I know I personally received several hundred calls from these guys. I had numerous people tell me they had received the same types of calls. The FTC can stop patting themselves on the back, the fact that it took this long is embarrassing.
Its funny, as soon as the car warranty scammers stopped calling last month, I now get robocalls for some cheapo health care ripoff. On my cell, on the do not call list. So it begins again.....
I never understood how these scams work, they hang up on you once you ask anything, but don't you need to know where to send your money? If you just give them credit card info won't they need an address for their merchant account or whatever credit card processing system they have? Why does it take so long to catch these people, isn't it possible to just follow the money to the scammers?
I have to pay for every incoming call even if they just leave a message and these assholes would call several times a day.
Burn these fuckers at the stake!
This was a fun way to deal with them.
Woo! Go Sun Devils!
John
What really bugs me about all this is that despite what were probably thousands of reports to the gov't, nothing was done and nobody really brought it up in the media until they accidentally bothered NY senator Chuck Schumer. Had they not stumbled onto his number, one wonders if they would still be in business.
I happen to work, as a contractor, for a VERY high-level (think: one step from the POTUSA) office and I was receiving these calls on my gov issued cell phone. I wrote a nice letter to the FTC about 1.5 months ago. They never even got back to me and I left them my full address. Is there anybody out there?
I have so many of these on my vonage voicemail. Any time I did press '1' it would just hang up, I guess they were too busy to bother scamming me.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
We are all rather familiar with the notion of "cost of doing business" when it comes to fines associated with illegal and/or unlawful activities in business. Quite often, the fines and other punishment are so small and insignificant that it is not a deterrent but is instead factored into the cost of doing business.
This warranty scam activity was very VERY obvious that it would be shut down at some point. The fact that it went on for as long as it did was pretty amazing all by itself. Who was responsible for the slow response on this? Further, the engineers of this scam made a LOT of money from this. When compared against the fines and other punishments so far, was there a net gain or loss for these perpetrators?
My point here is that if there was a significant net gain, then the perpetrators won. It doesn't matter that they were shut down. That was a matter of time. It took long enough that they somehow managed to pull in a LOT of money. How much of it did they get to keep? Frankly, I think the government needs to take ALL gross income from the operation. (Note "gross income" before expenses and payroll and the like.) And they need to extract this money directly from the perpetrators. If there are any legal prohibitions that will prevent the government from issuing such punitive measures, then you can see very clearly and plainly what is wrong with U.S. laws governing business. (It would be an effective license to commit fraud and be shielded from punishment.)
Who needs a trial? Let's kill them.
This was crazy, I received a couple of phone calls on my VoIP phone at around 3am Japan time telling me that my warranty was about to expire blah blah blah, I don't even live in the states right now since I'm stationed in Japan. Right away I knew the calls were bogus. I usually hung up on them but they called several other times, still at ungodly times of the night since we're about 15 hrs or so ahead of the US. I hope they catch every single one of the bastards...!
When they call, be very attentive to what they are saying. When they ask what type of vehicle and what not, just say 57 Chevy with oh about 500.000 miles. I can guarantee 6 out of 10 times you will get the automatic hang up.
Try to be as insistent as possible before they hang up that you really, really need warranty. Listen to them stutter, lol.
Yes, I'm an ass. My vehicle is a 1995 Chevy with 210k miles. PLEASE GIVE ME WARRANTY NAO! :)
I had this one company rep call me about how I had won 12 free magazine subscriptions for free - yes, that's right! FREE!. Made some 10 minute spiel about how wonderful it all was. All I needed to do was send $12.95 for some processing fee and I'd get my free, yes FREE! magazines.
I asked her, "If I won and my subscriptions are free why do I have to pay $12.95?"
To her credit, she replied, "Because they're free!" (Can't blame a girl for trying.)
Soooo, I reiterated my question a few more times until she hung up on me.
It feels good when I frustrate scammers at their own game. :P
How about an Android/iPhone app to report that the last call you received smelled seriously fishy? You could note down what it entailed, when enough keywords match enough other reports the FTC starts prodding the phone company.
Another possibility would be a way to get a fake credit card number which would come back declined, but would also flag the account as possibly fraudulent. Might help with spam and phishing, as well as this kind of fraud.
According to ftc.gov, violators of the do not call list can be fined up to $16k per call (has the ftc ever fined anyone this much? Anything?) TFA claims they made over a billion calls. I say we hit them up for 1 billion counts @ $16k per call.
Where is all the FOX news bashing?
See, that's one aspect of the "shield" built into the plan. They hired another company to do the calls. (More likely, created a company to do the calls.) The perps claimed not to know what the other company was doing. It would be interesting to know if this company existed long before the auto warranty company did.
What I don't understand is why I, and so many others, got so many calls. I must have received over 30. If these crooks were in business for two years, and made over a billion calls, they were clearly calling everyone they could reach in the US multiple times. Isn't there some point where they hit diminishing returns? TFA says their mantra was "hang up; next" (perl?), that is to not try to convert anyone who sounded remotely skeptical. But if they give up on the sale two second in, why call that same person back, again and again? Had they not called back people they rejected, I suspect that people would be nearly so upset with them, and the FTC wouldn't have gone after them.
What immediately sets off the bullshit alarm with these guys is that they call me even though I DO NOT HAVE A FRIGGIN CAR!!!
Last time I talked to them I told them
"stop calling me or I'm calling the FTC"
Hey, if you turn over enough rocks (3 billion to be approximate), you are bound to stir up some bottom crawlers.
And that's how Chuck Schumer got involved.
When they asked me the make and model of my car, I said I had a 1928 Porter, which, despite being a fictional car custom built from parts by Barris Kustom Industries, they were willing to extend its warranty!
Yup. I even reported a handful of calls to the FTC (using their website) just a few weeks before Chuck Schumer declared war on these guys.
I got a letter back from the FTC telling me that they couldn't do anything because "I didn't provide them enough information". I gave them the time of day, the CID, and what the robo greeting said. But I guess because I didn't talk to a human, it didn't count.
This should be considered a major FAIL for the FTC and the Do Not Call list. Which is a shame, too, because the DNC has been a great success with this exception.
It's embarassing that it took the FTC this long to catch them, and to add insult to injury, it only took them about a month after Chuck Schumer made a stink.
I hope that after these criminals are tried, a second investigation starts to find out why the FTC had their head up their ass.
-David
I always take my car in for service at the dealership. I just trade for a new car when the mechanics there tell me it's time to replace the blinker fluid. The mechanics let me in on the auto industry secret that once that happens, it's only a matter of time before everything starts breaking down. It's saved me a lotta hassle. Sure, it's more expensive, but this is one of those instances where you get what you pay for.
I'll bet good money that it wasn't one company they hired(created) to make the calls. It was one company, then a couple months later a new one, then a couple months later a new one. That way the FCC would always be investigating a closed/bankrupt/nonexistent company, while a brand new one was starting up doing the same thing, with the same people, in a boiler room a few blocks away from the previous one.
Unfortunately, this means no money for the people who got the illegal calls, even though they owe us all probably $1,500 a pop.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
what is NAO?
Censorship is obscene. Patriotism is bigotry. Faith is a vice. Slashdot 2.0 sucks.
I sent in a report about this scam several weeks before you sent yours in. They sent me a letter saying "Thanks for your information. We have received many other complaints and we are currently investigating the matter." I provided caller ID information (bogus though it was) and a URL of a website I found where people had been looking in to the same number. I also referenced a few similar calls my sister-in-law had received.
So... your report probably was incomplete :P
answered the phone once after getting this call ... yeah, guy said i had a 95... sucker... too bad i have a 94... he hung up on me promptly ("have a nice day." I think he said).
if we could find the person who's texting me by the name of "candy", i'd be a happy man...
This useless space for sale, inquire at front desk.
I even sent in their ANI from our company phone records and still got the incomplete form letter.
The real problem here is the phone companies. I tried reporting this issue to AT&T a few times, and found them to be singularly disinterested. They wouldn't even tell me who kept calling my cell phone over and over, trying to sell me the same thing over and over. The scammers were clearly robo calling as they didn't know *who* they were calling. I received from a few to several of these calls each week for several months.
Scams like this undoubtedly generate hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars a year in revenue from long distance and 800 number services, which probably include helping the scam artists hide their contact information from their victims. The phone companies had no interest at all in this problem, even when clearly thousands of legitimate customers complained about it. Not only were they making money from the scammers annoying calls, but the phone company also offered me the chance to pay an additional monthly fee to stop solicitation calls. When I asked point blank, they admitted that the service would not stop the robotic calls about which I'd called to complain. In addition to that, the phone companies were charging air time to victims, when the robotic caller dialed cell phones (like mine).
The phone companies, all of them, are complicit in this scam, and should be jointly prosecuted with the scammers.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Network Foundations LLC. 33 North LaSalle, Suite 2110 Chicago, IL 60602 Tel: (312) 235-2400 Fax: (312) 276-8780 Email: sales@networkfoundations.com Florida Profit Corporation VOICE TOUCH, INC. Filing Information Document Number P07000116212 FEI/EIN Number 261281522 Date Filed 10/23/2007 State FL Status ACTIVE Effective Date 10/23/2007 Principal Address 22 PROMENADE AT LION'S PAW DAYTONA BEACH FL 32124 US Mailing Address 22 PROMENADE AT LION'S PAW DAYTONA BEACH FL 32124 US M Dunne 1209 Sunland Rd Daytona Beach, FL 32114 (386) 253-7131 Cant really confirm the last number.
I say we hit them up for 1 billion counts @ $16k per call.
Judging by your /. number, you've been around long enough to know that insanely-high statutory fines are only valid when the RIAA is the plaintiff.
Otherwise they're just for show.
These people robo dialed the hell out of the 202 area code, starting well over a year ago, and not ending until they were busted. I sat in rooms in DC where I'd get this call, and a few minutes later someone else in the room got it, more than once. There were, undoubtedly, many influential federal government employees, Congresspersons, Senators, an White House staffers also victimized by these calls to their cell phones, both government and private. Why did it take this long to put a stop to this? The world may never know.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
WTF? Seriously: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
It was *so* obviously a scam - who on earth would give them a single penny? They knew nothing whatsoever about the car whose warranty allegedly expired, and they hung up as soon as you asked them a single question about anything at all. Anything I ever said to them got me disconnected.
How in the name of all that is holy did they collect a cent from anyone, if anything you say or ask makes them hang up?
Why did we ever get rid of those anyways??
The only way to ever put a stop to sub-human scum like these people are public executions. Oh, and make sure the drop isn't more than a few inches, wouldn't want the rope to break their neck and let them off easy. Pure scum.
I keep trying to tell you! I don't want to extend the warranty on my 1984 Ford Tempo!
I had to rescan his post 3 times before I found the missing "y"s, they didn't bother me at all when reading it... Good for you for noticing them but who the hell cares he missed them?
ics
These bastards called me on my cell while I was in Montenegro! It probably cost me $12 just to hang up on them immediately! I am sooooo psyched that they are busted!
No. See "Common Carrier". You really don't want the phone companies to be able to refuse service to anybody...
The real problem is the government's indifference — took millions of complaints over years for them to enforce the law...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
And now the number withheld calls begin... Mostly calling at 2:00AM.
I got a letter back from the FTC telling me that they couldn't do anything because "I didn't provide them enough information". I gave them the time of day, the CID, and what the robo greeting said. But I guess because I didn't talk to a human, it didn't count.
They're shitting you. I didn't have valid caller id from their call. I'm not sure how I could have identified the voice I ended up talking to. Gee, it sounds female, that eliminates 50% ...
The police wouldn't followup when an eyewitness had 6 of 7 digits of the license of the driver who hit & runned me and totaled my first new car. Make/model/location out of 10 possible vehicles should mean something, right?
However, they do appear to maintain a crazy list. Drag the call out. Speak slowly and say lots of things that don't make sense. You get to have a little fun and and up on their do not call list...Well, that or the democrats elect you speaker of the house. Either way you win.
--- Liberty in our Lifetime
"Yes, I have a car like that, and unfortunately it spontaneously combusted/disintegrated/got eaten by rust ten minutes ago. I'd like to make use of my warranty (you just said that it _was about to_ expire, right, so I still have it right now)?"
If it wasn't for the asinine toll-free registration process here. Being as toll-free numbers are registered through "Responsible Organizations (RespOrgs)" - which is an oxymoron to be kind - rather than anything resembling a centralized registry, it is insanely difficult to find out who is actually behind a given toll-free number. RespOrgs have no obligation - indeed they often say they are not allowed - to disclose even a company name or mailing address behind a toll-free number. And with the absurd number of RespOrgs for the toll-free system, by the time someone is able to file a complaint with a RespOrg regarding a toll-free number the company has already changed numbers and RespOrgs (at which point the first RespOrg might not even have the data for the first number anymore).
Why on earth this is acceptable - especially when traditional numbers are registered and traceable - is beyond me.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
These guys called me several times. First couple of times I hung up on them.
Then I told an operator to never call me back, and she said she'd put me on the do not call list.
Then another guy called, I demanded "What's the name of your company?" immediately, and he said he'd put me on the do not call list and hung up.
Finally, I listened to the idiotic robo-message in it's entirety, and at the end it said press #2 to be removed from our calling list. So I did.
I haven't gotten a call from them since.
It seems their telemarketers are penalized for putting people on the do-not-call list, because they never did. Once I told the auto-dialer to do so, I never got a call back.
Does anyone else have a similar experience?
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Someone needs to compile a list of these companies, their owners, and their owners' phone numbers. There are a few things I'd like to try to sell to Christopher Cowart, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
"Good morning, Mr. Cowart. This morning I have a beautiful jogging stroller for sale that has fallen into disuse since my children have gotten older. No? Ok, talk to you this afternoon!"
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
http://www.PeopleAreRude.com
no, I pressed #2 many times and kept getting calls.
two quick things.
The other reply is good advice to reduce junk mail and such I have been on it for a while and I can say it helps. Unfortionatly companies that have prior business with you will still sell your info so your treating the symptom not the cause.
Having been closer then I wish to admit to a group of spamming a-holes for my first job out of college "think senior citizen groups" I learned the magic phrase.
"Do not rent, sell, or trade any of this information, & please put on your do not mail list"
This tells them in clear terms they can't weasle out of that you don't want your info sold or traded, and you don't want junk mail catalogs. They trade, rent, and sell your name like a commodity, with competitors lists for more names so don't forget this part!!
I have also had people recommend and tried although I haven't caught anyone yet, to change your middle initial to something odd as if you had a typo. That way if they do sell your info you will know who the offending party is. FYI the bad guys do this (seed their list) to make sure when they rent or sell your info the list only gets used once.
You can also contact the post office and let them know you don't want any 3'rd class mail.
Get your name on the Do Not Call Registry, the Opt out List, and the DMA do not mail list. Inform all the companies you do existing business with your wishes by writing the magic phrase or all your mail correspondence or checks for a few times. This with all for about 6 months and you will notice the difference. Here are links for the Google impaired.
https://www.donotcall.gov/
http://opt-out.cdt.org/online/
http://www.thedma.org/
Dale (K.O.T.H.) was right in some ways and I always get a laugh at that episode... remember people....DON'T FEED THE BEAST!!
DP
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
This is typical government work when conflation is involved. Government is just not established to be involved with the private sector. See bailouts, government healthcare, Do Not Call Lists, digital transition mandate... the list goes on. Anything the government touches in the private sector will wither and die a fabulous death, guaranteed. (Take note how the FTC did nothing, as it took a Schumer's personal vendetta to get anything done.)
The real problem is the government's indifference — took millions of complaints over years for them to enforce the law...
Millions of complaints had nothing to do with it. IIRC, Senator Schumer got one of there calls and the rest is history.
Note to telemarketer: scrub congressmen from phone list.
Yeah, reporting these guys is usually useless. They spoof the caller ID info (this is where the phone companies should be atomic dope slapped) and the associates, if you get one, are well trained in not telling you anything that would be useful on a report. Full name? Nope. Company name? Nope. Address? Hell no. Return number? Nope.
In reality, if they were taking it seriously all the FTC would need is your phone number, the time of the call, and your provider. Then they could get records from the provider (ie. AT&T) and know where the call came from, who it's registered to, and so on. The phone companies make damn sure to have that info, because otherwise they couldn't get paid.
Which, of course, is why the FTC were able to move so fast once Senatorman got called.
Feel free to embellish on this script when you have a little time to play with their minds. Most of the dialog is paraphrased.
Caller: Hello, Mr. _______. Our records show your auto warranty is soon to expire.
You: I wasn't aware of that.
Caller: Would you like to renew your warranty now?
You: I suppose I should if it's going to expire soon. What do you need, the VIN number?
Caller: Yes sir.
You: Hold on. The car is in the garage. I need to go there.
Caller: OK sir.
(wait about one or two minutes, or until they wonder where you are)
You: OK, I got my shoes on, now I can go out to the garage. It's a detached garage.
Caller: Great, sir.
(wait another one or two minutes, or until they get concerned again)
Caller: Sir?
You: Hold on, I'm unlocking the door to the garage now.
(Wait 15 to 30 seconds. Idle chat with them to keep them on the line)
You: Shoot. This is the shed key. It looks the same as the garage key. I always get them mixed up. Let me go get the garage key. I really want this warranty.
Caller: Very well, sir.
(Wait one to three minutes. Idle chat to keep on the line. Maybe pretend to talk about issues with your lawn, etc. as you "walk back" to get your key)
You: OK. That was the right key this time. I'm at the car.
(At this point you can try, but you may be pushing their patience, to say "The car key is in the house. Let me get it.")
You: OK. I can read the VIN at the windshield.
Caller: Go ahead, sir.
You: 1... W... G... K... N or M...
Caller: Which one is it sir, N or M?
You: It's tough to see in here. Let me go get a flashlight.
(You decide if your flashlight is near you in the garage or WAYYYY back in the house)
You: M... 3... 4... H... J... 4... 2... 6... 8... 2... 0....
You: Can you repeat that back for me?
Caller: That's OK sir. I can't find your vehicle. What is it?
You: It's a 1974 VW Super Beetle
Caller: Don't you have any newer cars?
You: Nope. This is my first car and it still runs great for me. (You may even want to say it's been handed down to you as your first car and it still runs well for you.)
Caller: I'm sorry sir, we can't help you at this time. We'll take you off our call list.
You: OK. Sorry about that.
Caller: **Click**, or "Have a good day sir."
I did the last six lines for one of them once and I never received another call from any auto warranty company. They apparently took me off their list when I convinced them I only had the Beetle.
I've gotten several of the postcards and some phone calls back when I had a 2000 model car whose warranty was long-expired, and I understood straight away that it was a 3rd party company trying (deceptively, IMO) to get my business. When we purchased a new vehicle in 2008, and my wife got one of their phone calls 2 months later saying our warranty was going to expire that day unless she took action to extend it, she was understandably confused, especially since the caller claimed they were with Mazda. When she told the caller that she didn't know the VIN and she asked some questions, the caller hung up.
I'm really glad someone went after these scum.
I got a call a couple of days ago from "Visa and MasterCard" offering to help lower my rates. I said, "Which card?"
They said, "Either VISA or MasterCard."
"Which issuing bank? CitiBank? Chase?"
"Either, as long as it's a VISA or MasterCard."
"This phone number is on the Do Not Call registry."
*click*
Has anyone else heard of this yet? Is it a new scam, or did I piss off a legitimate phonesalesthug?
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
OMG! Someone call Barack Obama and tell him that we found $16 T to balance his budget for the next ten years.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Does anyone else get the calls offering $1000 cash for "debt reversal? Often times several robocalls per day, several different voices (male & female); the script never varies:
..."Hello...this is (caller's first name here) at (scamming institution's name here, e.g "Financial Associates") I'm calling because we've talked before..." (untrue) "...You qualify for Financial Associates's Debt Reversal program--for up to $1000 cash. Now...we've talked before, and maybe at that time Debt Reversal Associates's program wasn't right for you...but I'm looooking oooover yourrrrr fiiiiile, and you definitely qualify. So give me at 866-blah-blah and I will make sure your file gets priority treatment..." (end of call)
/.s have experience w/these creeps? OTOH--I doubt that many /.s are gullible enough to fall for this scam.
(paraphrasing)
Not sure what their angle is--I've never taken the bait.
My assumption is that they want to "verify" all my personal info to facilitate identity theft; or at the very least, my checking account # so that they can (ahem) direct deposit that $1000!
Do any
I had dinner with a guy who had his company's merger (in an obscure concrete-related industry) with a larger entity get reviewed by the FTC and turned down (all during Bush Jr's second term). He was understandably annoyed with the FTC, but his description of the FTC's operation was pretty stunning. Apparently they're pretty autonomous and aren't really accountable at all. He even had the backing of a household name Republican Senator with Bush connections and didn't get ANY traction.
My guess is that the FTC doesn't really give a shit about consumers and has their own agenda. There's probably legitimate reason to provide them insulation from political pressure, but probably not reason enough to prevent accountability.
I kept getting these scam calls on my cell phone, and I complained to the FCC but get I kept getting more scam calls. The FCC should have been on the ball about this long ago as they already have strict laws against automated dialing:
"(a) No person or entity may: (1) Initiate any telephone call (other than a call made for emergency purposes or made with the prior express consent of the called party)using an automatic telephone dialing system or an artificial or prerecorded voice;"
"To any telephone number assigned to a paging service, cellular telephone service, specialized mobile radio service, or other radio common carrier service, or any service for which the called party is charged for the call."
Title 47
When a tiny glimpse of a nipple showed up on TV they were on it instantly even though almost everyone already has one pair of nipples and seeing a third one on TV isn't going to harm anyone. Then there's shit like this where people run telemarketing scam and yank millions of dollars while the FCC just sits there with head in ass doing nothing about it. Perhaps they should change the name from Federal Communications Commission to Federal Censorship Commission because obviously they care about nothing other than preventing people from saying fuck on TV.
Given the enormous number of their customers who called with similar complaints, a modern well run help desk (which they do seem to have) would have resulted in this issue floating to the top of the list. This happens on auto pilot for a modern help desk, which reviews categories of unresolved issue types at least every month, probably daily in the case of a phone company.
In the review session, a manager who gets a bonus based on the percentage of resolved calls says something like: "Hey, we're still getting a boatload of complaints about the auto warranty robo dialers, and we still don't have an answer for this."
In this case, the issue would float to the top of the list month after month for over a year. The help desk has a huge incentive to at least come up with a "stock answer", because unresolved issues hammer their stats, causing customers to fill out surveys negatively, and eat away at bonus incentives. Heck, if they only received calls from 5% of iPhone using Slashdot readers, then they got enough calls to raise this issue up to the level of senior management.
I'm guessing at some level a lot higher than the person answering the phone, this question was considered, escalated one more unfortunate career limiting level, probably more than once in the past year. They thought about it. They chose not to act. This kind of thing often results in epic internal bureaucratic struggle, usually between people who have a bonus based on some customer satisfaction metric affected by the problem, and senior management who bet that the customer annoyance will not result in an FCC fine larger than the profit from the questionable activity, which, after all, is conducted not by your organization, but by a customer. I hope one day someone leaks a memo or two, so we can all see that yes, in fact, the issue was raised above the front line help desk.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
...And then send everyone that was bothered by these jerks a check for $16k. That might ease the pain.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
Man, what we need to do is find out which number belongs to Chuck Schumer so we can put it down as an extra alternative contact number on job applications or when filling out forms on the web. Someone calling about whether you want a job or doing other business is likely to hit the first two numbers and be done. But when running into somebody who's just using that data only to sell it, all those numbers will get used. And those annoying robocalls are getting their numbers from somewhere (If you get hit by one, soon there will be many more.)
Since the FTC is doing a craptastic bureaucratic job of it, perhaps we should all start putting private numbers of political office holders or corporate bigwigs as number 3 or 4 in our alternate contact methods list.
I press 2 when it gives me the option... I did notice on one though, if you press 2, and then wait, about 30 seconds to a minute later a voice said "you will now be removed, please stand by" another 30 seconds or so "you have now been removed from our list"
I suspect they were betting that people will just press 2 and hang up and not wait to be removed.
either way though, it doesn't seem to have reduced the number of these scam calls...
You don't have to buy "Y's" you fool... Pat Sajak gives them away for free.
Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
You call AT&T about a problem, and you should expect them to do something
Honestly, the phone company (AT&T, Verizon, whomever) likely doesn't have the information needed to solve your problem anyways. If you are calling because Bogus Warranty, Inc at 800-555-5555 called you, that's great but your phone company can't even verify that the number belongs to who you think it belongs to; they don't have that information - nobody at your phone company does. And to make it even better, the phone company has no right to access that information.
You know how when you get spammed, you can run a WHOIS search on evilspammingdomain.com and figure out who owns it? There exists no such tool for 800 numbers. Instead we have a list of hundreds of Responsible Organizations ("RespOrgs") who do toll-free registration. They - and only they - know who is behind the toll-free numbers. But they are under no obligation to share that information with anyone; hence they generally won't do it unless a subpoena is served.
Though of course the subpoena is useless because by the time someone has obtained it and served it, the customer of the toll-free number has already left for a different RespOrg and the RespOrg who was just served has already deleted the records.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I suspect I received the same call. In the evening on June 8th I had a call that showed up on my (cell phone!) caller ID as 866-246-2310. It was a robocall in a very conversational tone, calling herself "Erica" or something like that. It offered something for VISA, Mastercard, or American Express. It said "press 1 to talk to an agent" or "press 2 to be removed from our calling list". I pressed 2 and haven't heard anything else yet. We'll see how long it lasts.
Coincidentally, it appears that the Responsible Organization ("RespOrg") for that number is Marchex Voice Services. You can check the RespOrg for a toll-free by calling Ameritech at 800-337-4194; they can give you the RespOrg ID and phone number. Of course the RespOrg will refuse to reveal the identity of who is using the toll-free number but you can at least call them and tell them about the call.
So to answer your question, this is indeed a scam. It is actually a very old scam, possibly being run by a new group. I have discussed these problems in journal entries before.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
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.. can't comprehend how people really believe they can get away with these types of scams; I'm beginning to think that the population is even dumber than I thought.
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If you read the AT&T writeup on what to do with annoying calls here http://contact.bellsouth.com/acc/ you will see that every branch of this decision tree ends with "you should change your phone number", "you should notify FCC or authorities" or "it may be annoying, but it is probably completely legal and we can do any thing about it". This connotes that the decision was made by AT&T to basically tell it's customers, "it's your problem, not ours".
I got a letter back from the FTC telling me that they couldn't do anything because "I didn't provide them enough information".
Clearly from the story here, the missing information was telling them you're a US senator or someone important enough to get their asses fired.
"has the ftc ever fined anyone this much? Anything?"
Come on, it's the FTC we're talking about, not the RIAA.
This sig is false.
...fact that aftermarket warranties themselves are a big scam even when they are "legitimate". ;) If you pay them it's gone. If your car breaks you are no worse off since you have the money.
You are better off figuring out how much one of these things are, and putting the same amount money monthly in an interest bearing account to save for a rainy day. If you never need it, at least you still have your money
Remember they only do this because it's a money maker. It's not to help you avoid repair bills. With these guys you are still paying the repair bill whether or not your car breaks.
-Viz
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
These criminals were actively wasting millions of peoples time, even if they did not succumb to getting charged by them, the time it takes to deal with this is significant.
I received nearly 50 calls from these criminals. I spent a lot of time reporting them to donotcall. This time could have been much better spent elsewhere.
Last time they called, I baited them by starting to read a bogus credit card to them, but asked for them and managed to speak to a manager of some sort, who refused to identify the company. I managed to hurl as many insults at them as possible before the click. That was satisfying, but nowhere near as satisfying as seeing justice happen.
I'm overjoyed they have been caught, I had become very cynical about all the time I spent reporting them. Hopefully my reports will help to bolster the case.
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I was getting these 3x a week...One day, I figured I'd play along. My 3 cars consist of:
1968 Ford Mustang
1966 Ford Mustang
1968 Chevy Suburban
I told them the make and models, several of them hung up...One asshole, started an argument that I didn't have cars that old...He eventually told me to fuck off and hung up. I laughed for days about that.
Now if I could only get rid of the carpet cleaning ad, as I have no carpets, ripped them all out and tiled the entire house...But they call when I'm not at home and don't leave a number.
if I owned a car. I am curious how many others are in the same boat.
They spoof the caller ID info (this is where the phone companies should be atomic dope slapped)
Caller ID is working for the phone company exactly as planned. You're paying each month to have it delivered to your phone, and they can charge you each month to have your number blocked. Spoofing is beside the point.
It's embarassing that it took the FTC this long to catch them, and to add insult to injury, it only took them about a month after Chuck Schumer made a stink.
Another point for representation by lottery rather than representation by rich enough to afford becoming a politician but not smart or ambitious enough to do something useful with your life.
(I'm only half serious, but...)
The best punishment for these people is have a thousand phones ringing all day, all night for a several years that they can't answer.
I have been suffering from these phone calls even though all my phones (including all my work phones) are on the "Do Not Call" list. Dying is too good for them.
a national service?
IIRC, Germany just has 'teh phone system'. Would a public/state utility be as susceptible to this sort of abuse? Would the gov't be more able to do something about it? /non-rhetorical question
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Frankly, I think the government needs to take ALL gross income from the operation. (Note "gross income" before expenses and payroll and the like.)
You're forgetting they should add on federal, state and any local tax at the maximum allowable rate. Even if they've already paid tax on it.
Hah! captcha = bleeder
Ultimately, this is a failure of the general public of the United States, not of government. The people are foolish and afraid of government, yet there is no proverbial or literal blood of the do-nothing tax-milking government workers. Those employed by the government will do whatever they can get away with, but it's the lack of participation by the general populous that allows them to continue doing nothing and get paid for it.
There are phone scams elsewhere but it seems not to the same extent. In the UK we no longer have a nationalised phone service but the regulatory environment seems to be more successful in keeping the worst excesses under control.
I sometimes get calls from automated systems but they show up as International on the caller ID. I believe that the regulations for automated call systems are stricter and enforcement harsher here so they only operate from outside the UK jurisdiction. We also get free caller-id if you know how to sign up for it.
Calls to mobiles are charged entirely to the caller here and mobile numbers have a standard prefix anyway so we do not have two of the elements of the problem.
I did get some random cold calls on my mobile a while ago claiming to be from my mobile phone company and trying to sell me a new contract. The problem with that was that my phone is pay-as-you-go so there is no contract to expire. I think they were just calling all numbers that were first registered 18 months earlier because that is the usual first contract duration.
The problem that gets the most coverage here is reverse charged SMS messages where people say they did not request the messages. That seems to have died down a bit now; I believe that was as a result of the regulator making the mobile phone companies get their act together in responding to complaints.
+1 Informative. Thanks.
i like that only the caller pays for cell phone calls.
It's weird to me that in the US we're supposedly all about competition, but the big players have so much clout that they don't seem to compete at all. So we get crap service and it costs a fortune. Here you *can't* pay less than about 40$ a month. i don't need 1000 minutes a year let alone per month. i'm not a twelve year old girl. The pay as you go systems end up charging you a defacto recurring fee to keep your phone number. i'm pleased as punch that my employer provides me with an iPhone and service.
Personally, i'd much rather have a nationalized service that charges enough to cover costs instead of charging to line the pockets of investors.
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At first I just harassed these guys. I had asked them not once, not twice, but 20+ time to remove me from their list. Their numbers changed constantly, and I often get called from out of state customers, thus I would have to answer the phone just to be sure it wasn't a customer.
When I figured out who it was and I had time, I would give them the impression that I was a wet dream of a sale. Several cars just out of warranty, BMW, Jeep, even a Range Rover; then I would tell them that I wanted to warranty all of them.......and that I'd be paying for it all right now with my credit card. I'd give them accurate VIN numbers (I've got several high-end cars parked up and down the street, and my neighbors would give me a beer for giving these guys hell), and spend at least 45 minutes on the phone with these guys just keeping them on the line with tales about how great these cars are. Then would come the credit card numbers.......which would all be canceled or expired cards that I kept around JUST for the occasion these guys called. This would of course be followed by at least ANOTHER 45 minutes of trying 1 number, ensuring it's correct, then trying another card, ensuring THAT number is correct, getting VISA customer service on the phone, etc.. After I hit the 90 minute mark:
Me: "How does it feel to have your time wasted?"
Salesman: "What do you mean, sir?"
Me: "How much trouble are you going to be in if you've been un-productive for the past hour and a half?"
Salesman: "Well, yeah I'd be in trouble, but we can make this work, don't worry."
Me: "You don't like being yelled at by the boss, do you?
Salesman: "No, I don't, but who does?"
Me: "*evil cackle* I'll tell you what, I LOVE it when guys like YOU get the proverbial boot to their ass."
Salesman: "I'm sorry, could you repeat that?"
Me: "You've just been punked, remove me from your list or I will keep getting reprobate fuckheads like you fired for wasting too much time."
*click*
I did that 6 times before I thought they got the impression. Except they didn't stop calling. I think they intentionally put me in every robocaller they had and set it to hang up every time I picked up. They're lucky the FCC got to them first, because last week I got called 54 times in the same day. Yes, that's right, 54 times. I called the number back after the 20th time and left them a message threatening legal action, and was interrupted by them calling me....again. I have long weekends and expendable income, if I found out where these guys were I was going to fly there and take a baseball bat to every piece of electronic equipment in sight, and Miguel if I found out who he was because I'm certain he's the one that put me on every machine. Come to think of it, these guys are lucky they didn't pull that stunt on a much more distemperate guy than me.....people could have been killed.
Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last
They were trying to sell an extended warranty to the elevator at my work last spring... for real..