Slashdot Mirror
UK Plans To Monitor 20,000 Families' Homes Via CCTV
metrix007 points out a story in the Sunday Express with more surveillance-camera madness from the UK, where the government now wants to place 20,000 CCTV cameras to monitor families ("the worst families in England") within their own homes, to make sure that "kids go to bed on time and eat healthy meals and the like. This is going too far, and hopefully will not pass. Where will it end?"
Dont worry people! This will be broadcasted on television too so you wont be missing anything. As you know, the tv show "Big Brother" viewer amount has been going down and advertisers want something fresh!
This is an actual, verbatim representation of Orwell's vision for the future (today's present). There isn't any needed for interpretation, it's literally 1984. Wow.
You just can't make hyperbole out of this shit anymore. Get the fuck out of England while there isn't a 30ft concrete wall preventing you from doing so. Either that or start killing your politicians.
And it didn't even take a revolution.
For the love of jebus, ignore the Daily/Sunday Express just as much as the Daily/Sunday Mail. They are terrible, borderline-racist, reactionary publications with a fixation on Big Brother (Orwell, not the terribe reality show) and 'foreign types stealing our jobs'.
There's a site dedicated to the terrible nature of these publications, which is well worth a read, if only for a giggle.
Other news sources (Telegraph, Daily Mail) mention "24-hour supervision", but no CCTVs. Without the CCTVs, it's not really that different from homes for the elderly.
Too often, people describe things they don't like as "being just like 1984", using hyperbole to over-exagerate how bad the situation is.
Sticking cameras in people's houses to monitor them on CCTV, however, especially against their will, is literally right in the book. I think it's even on the first page if I remember correctly.
Is the British government unaware of how they, every day, come more and more to resemble the exact institution warned against over half a century ago, or are they just taking bets on how far they can push things before people wake up and fight back?
Maybe the politicians do read books. It really does come across as an instruction manual for them.
That they are even talking about this is nefarious indeed. What we the people should be doing is insisting on our legislators and lawmakers being CCTV'd 24/7 along with phones. (With exceptions for national security.)
Imagine how much corruption would be uncovered this way. If the representatives choose to conduct business elsewhere it can be assumed they are guilty of something or at least worthy of voting out.
Yes, that sounds much better.
In case you were wondering Orwell's1984 is not actually a manual for statecraft. Just to clear that up.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Fuck em. Fuck the Police. Fuck the government. Only a year to go and we can fire the whole lot of them.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
No one is watching Big Brother in the UK anymore, so instead they're going to use the classic Soviet Russia twist:
(takes deep breath)
In UK, Big Brother watches you!
Plus, Davina McCall needs something to do besides those hair colour adverts.
Summation 2
First, they came for the paedophiles; and I didn't speak, for I was not a paedophile.
Then, they came for the hoodies; and I didn't speak, for I was not a hoodie.
Then, they came for the problem families; and I didn't speak, for I was not a problem family.
Then, they came for me. But I was in Canada by then (please?!)
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
. . . their kids always seem to find some trouble to get themselves into . . . naughty kids == bad parents . . . ?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
England admits they're doing it!
They are all BAD...
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
In the UK, TV watches you!
Madness? This is the UK!
...in other words, the guys who decide on these things haven't even gotten warmed up yet.
i can see where this might actually be needed, there are lots of people out there who make an absolute fuck up of their lives and drag EVERYONE (their kids)down with them. the problem is who gets to say who needs monitoring and who doesn't, until there is a way to answer this, it's out of the question in my books.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
The Sunday Express is not exactly the most reliable news source. This is why a bit more digging is in order. One Google search later, I came over this site: http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=7524
The verdict is: if you happen to live in UK you're fucked
There's no mention of CCTV cameras, but the programs these people have border on downright nazi. They talk about getting the "right" outcome in courts, tackling important issues like noise nuisance or vehicle nuisance and they use some cryptic acronyms which when translated are plain scary.
Some examples:
ISSP - intensive supervision and surveillance programme
YIP - youth inclusion programme. YIPs operate in local neighbourhoods and are aimed predominantly at young people identified as being at risk of offending, but who have not yet entered the criminal justice system.
LAA - A local area agreement (LAA) is a three year agreement that sets out the priorities for a local area agreed between central government and a local area.
right...
I spoke to one of my British immigrant friends about the big brother attitude in England, saying I understand it's financially motivated in the U.S., but I couldn't see what motivated it there. He said a large portion of the population has absolutely no sense of personal responsibility and wants some one else (the government) to handle that for them. Of course this isn't everyone.
Let's look at history and see how British citizens who didn't agree with the crown acted and what came of it:
Scotland - William Wallace. They fought a good fight but ultimately failed. They made their point and over time, since people allowed the fight to die with him, it didn't matter.
Quakers, Puritans, other settlers. - Fled to the New World to escape the mainland oppression only to experience oppression by remote control. They eventually rebelled, established independence and we now have the United States. Some time later Canada decided to break free also - a little more peacefully and they still have the Queen on their money. I wouldn't.
It's time for the English citizens to have a civil war. They've already screwed up, they've let their government take their guns away, so it's going to be difficult, but I'm sure they can manage. If enough of the populace proves they're willing to go to war with rakes and shovels it may just get enough attention to prove to the government they're serious and the government may start listening. I'm sure it would only take a few government officials dieing during riots and stealth assassination missions before they agree to consider that 1984 wasn't meant as an instruction manual.
It's very important that the people declare war and actually send over a document declaring such, if they don't it's no better than gang terrorism.
The U.S. proved such a thing can work.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
If a family fails so much at parenting that they have to be supervised by the government to do their job, I really don't think that it would change anything. Sure, it might prevent the parents from beating the crap out of their children, but if they do that, taking away the children is a better idea anyways, or do you really expect them to turn into loving, good-citizen parents just because Big Brother is watching? I'm not as opposed to surveillance as most of the /. crowd, but this...they aren't just completely invading *private* homes, it's also completely stupid - that is, if it weren't just to increase government power. Yes, the UK is really becoming a Stalinist state, slow maybe, but they sure are. And like in every authoritarian state, they already disarmed their citizens. I'd get out of that country ASAP if I'd be living there.
A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
This doesn't even suprise me, wtf is happening to the world?
- Sig
At least 100, most likely more.
Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
Uh... these cameras are focused on the kids, too, you know.. so..... PEDO!
I know your all going to compare it to 1984, say this is a big brother police state, but to be honest, if you live on an area affected by youths who make you terrified to go outside, who intimidate you if you do, who will not hesitate to key your car, smash in it's windows or even set it on fire, who make it the norm to set of fireworks in the street and even post them through letter boxes, then you wouldn't be moaning about their human rights.
The UK gov also announced that it 'Really doesn't give a shit anymore' and will be opening the soylent green factories, imposing a curfew, recruiting Thought Police Officers, and 'Anything else we can think of, since the populace are disarmed and we can do what the fuck we like'. - Reuters
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
El Gordo is off on his hols and the underlings feel they can let out silly proposals like this. Then the ministers get to keep their TV hours up by spending copious amounts of time saying that this is only a proposal knowing full well that it will never happen.
The 'Comics', newspaper like the Daily Wail and Express need to fill their copy and stories like this are exactly the sort of thing to fill the 'silly season'.
Besides if by some legal mangling, the cameras were ever to be installed, they would be:-
(within minutes)
1) Stolen and sold down the Pub for Drink,Fags or Drugs.
2) Vandalised
3) The house sublet to a nice family ensuring nothing for the monitors to see.
Anyway, NuLab will get a real tanking in the next election and the Tories will have all their attention on getting the country out of the financial sesspit that Gordon 'prudence' Broone has got us into since 1997.
Finally, as this is in a clear breach of the European Human Rights Directive I think many of the wailers here should get a life.
I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
Its full of queers, blacks and crime!
Oh, if only Diana were here!
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
We have our problems, too.
We just have the comfort of knowing that we live on the edges of ridiculously huge tracts of unpopulated, un-cleared wilderness bigger than most European countries into which we can run off and live, (and conduct guerrilla warfare from), should things get really sticky. Our brand of political asshole remains vaguely aware of this fact. I think that's partly why there seems to be a campaign afoot to ensure that everybody turns into a fat, lazy, ignorant, TV-watching, video-gaming idiot. They run slower, have fewer hours in the day to think, and in the end, simply put up with a lot more bullshit.
A hunter isn't scared of the same things everybody else is, because s/he knows that should society crumble, survival isn't a matter of how many digits are recorded after one's name in the local bank machine.
-FL
I'm guessing it's about 25 years too late for him.
All I can say is: Poor Mrs Balls...
No need to fight back.
Just stop.
A general strike across all industries means that the slaves are no longer feeding their masters. The slave masters are frickin' terrified of this, which is why they work so hard to control people, to dumb them down and turn them against each other. The French have this worked out. Those giant cross-country strikes? Notice how the French have a better standard of living than virtually anybody else on the planet? This is why they were vilified by Bush-co. Fuck the slave masters and all their endless lies. Politicians are leaches. End of story.
If everybody puts a bit of canned food aside and commits to taking care of each other during the stoppage, then they can happily starve out the government and make it bend to their will.
That's all it takes. --That and a few hard-headed strike leaders willing to brave MI5's assassins. But that's not impossible, and they know it.
-FL
. . . have these cameras record their crimes for the sake of posterity?
You only have to look at the evening news with their "surveillance camera" footage to know that the ever-present camera does little to deter criminals. What we do get is a better record of the crime, which mostly just helps prosecutors convince the depicted offenders to agree to plea deals, as opposed to being used as a great bit of evidence to support a case to have them convicted and serve the prescribed time for the crime committed.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Government seriously proposes monitoring people in their own homes (the motivation/excuse doesn't really matter).
The article also mentions "violent girl gangs". What? A little googling got me an article at another online UK newspaper . I can't believe it. A Clockwork Orange, anyone?
Maybe it's just another british tabloid weaving elaborate lies and exaggerations, like some posts pointed as the explanation for the "family monitoring" news?
Please, let it all be lies and exaggerations, because I can't believe that Goode Olde England has degraded that much...
Best Regards,
Durval Menezes.
I have never met a computer that didn't like me.
A family 'failing to do its job' is by their definition a family that doesn't comply with middle-class behavioral norms. What if your child says something at school deemed a bit too radical (such as 'Blair should be hanged in accordance with the Nuremberg laws' or 'armed revolution is the only thing that can save us now') they may decide you are not a proper parent and give themselves a pretext to place you under constant surveilance. Of course, if they catch any moderately subversive activity whilst they are checking your kids go to bed at the right time, you have only yourself to blame...
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Notice that nothing in this is compulsory. It is an option presented to families as an alternative to being prosecuted.
Not compulsory? Please re-read your own sentence. Anybody who would willingly agree to this 'non-compulsory' treatment is somebody under serious compulsion. Like the fear of prosecution.
Poor education and class warfare is why this situation exists at all. And it's deliberate.
Slave nation. We're not much better in the West. We have more television channels, so it's easier to keep people from open rebellion. In the UK, you need more truncheons.
I think of the UK rather as being the control sample in a large experiment.
-FL
His name is Mr. Balls. No, I'm not immature -- every living person on the face of the Earth finds the name Mr. Balls hilarious.
I too have expertise in the field of anti-censorship. Normally, I'd recommend a good old encrypted VPN, but in this case, I'd recommend some nice thick black curtains.
Excuse for why is your room always messy?
And like in every authoritarian state, they already disarmed their citizens.
I think you need to look at history a bit more closely. A lot of authoritarian states (including Nazi Germany and a number of middle-eastern states today) encouraged private ownership of firearms because presenting a foreign threat and stressing that individuals have to be ready to defend their country against foreign aggressors is a very easy way of promoting xenophobia. In such a situation, people may realise that their government is not ideal, but it's better than letting the foreigners come in and take over, and from there it's very easy to portray any political dissent as foreign-sponsored.
The USA made heavy use of this policy in the cold war era. It was the patriotic duty of every American to own a gun and be ready to defend against the Red Menace. Any politician who proposed social programs was hinted at being a communist sympathiser or a Russian spy.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Sure, it might prevent the parents from beating the crap out of their children, but if they do that, taking away the children is a better idea anyways [...]
This is commonly believed (and I can understand why), but taking children into care has some of the worst outcomes of any course of action. The care system is an almost unmitigated disaster. Children are shunted from home to home (over three moves is very, very common), and the system is rife with neglect and abuse. It's almost state-sponsored child torture.
Two things popped into my head when I read the summary:
1. The "Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" song
2. This is the ultimate nanny-cam for the ultimate nanny state
Perhaps I am missing something by not actually being in the U.K., but do they do anything along the lines of adding a spoonful of sugar to help this medicine go down or have they simply failed to realize how hard this is to swallow?
Two words tell you everything you need to know about this story:
Sunday Express.
Move on. Nothing to see here. And, Slashdot, for God's sake... please check your sources in future rather than the random cranks.
For those who don't know, imagine that bit in Men in Black where Tommy Lee Jones checks the papers for "information"... one of those would be the Sunday Express.
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-06-20/
Remove the defacto right that everybody is supposed to have to children - a lot of the less intelligent people will never make good parents, and shouldn't be allowed.
How to prevent it? Tell them if they do get a million dollar/pound fine and 10 years imprisonment.
Too many people on the planet as it is.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
we are talking about famlies where the 10 year old daughter is pimped out by her mother for drugs and gets HIV, where daddy busts up his kids whenever his soccer team doesn't win. I can totally see why someone would see this massive problem and just throw a solution out there in desperation.
a lot of people only see problem -> solution, when they need to look at problem->solution->consequences. unfortunately running peoples lives comes with really bad consequences for the rest of us, which we just won't stand for.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Nope, not in action here.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
That is your definition of a problem family. Under this kind of legislation, the definition of a problem family will most likely rest entirely at the discretion of petty officials such as magistrates. Such people have no qualms about using the force of the law to push their own personal opinions, tastes, and morals on others.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I think this is a great program. We should next extend it to 24/7 CCTV monitoring of politicians and their families to make sure that they do not betray the public trust, don't go sneaking off to their mistresses, don't take bribes, and don't do anything else that would embarrass us, the people who they represent.
"Is it 1984 already?"
The year 1984 was 25 years ago.
Can't they come up with something new? Like brain implants or remote controlled electroshock shackles...
They always say that. By default the Tories will always complain it's "too little, too late", "just more of the same failed policies" or something similar, irrespective of whether they ever offered a solution, or whether Labour does exactly what the Tories want (queue frantic moves to change their platform). British politicians are incapable of agreeing on anything in public other than how incompetent their counterparts are.
In a world where everyone has a degree, only those with PhDs will get the good jobs. The other difference will be that you will need a degree in transportation in order to drive a van.
There's a degree of truth in that. At my gym all of the receptionists -- whose job is to swipe my membership card and hand me a towel, and to maintain the trainers' appointment book -- all proudly display their degree certificates in "Hospitality Management". I don't know what the degree entails, but assuming it really is a degree level course I'm damn sure you don't need it to do their job, and those who might be far better at the meet-and-greet public-facing work but who are not academically able are unnecessarily excluded.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
Not all of Canada is nice. In Quebec, the system is biased against medical malpractice victims. You can read my story here.
There are currently no laws stating that minors must wear clothes inside the house, so tell them not to. Then, the government records CP and they all burn at the stake!! It's flawless!!
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Ok, England is an isle, but does that explain why their children seem to be a demonic race of violent criminals from hell that needs constant supervision? How else can you explain that in the rest of the world tries to treat children with love and trust and they pretty much turn out great?
Every time i hear how the UK goverment looks down at and treats their population as if they were savage, violent Untermenschen i wonder how it could come so far. "Wehret den AnfÃngen!" is just a nice local quote, right?
So what will be next? Looking at my own country's history, the next step after demonizing and controlling a group in society was declaring them a treat to society. For the better of themselfes and society as a whole they need to be concentrated, reeducated and prevented from breeding. Oh and then the killing started, but i guess we live in different times now, right?
News for Nerds? The comments appear almost identical to what one would read from any forum other than slashdot - one-third raging right-winger rants about the welfare state, one-third left-wing rants about the social causes of the problem, one-third insults directed at the media. I count just two posters pointing to what seems to be the original source material (http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=8678) and maybe a half dozen total (~2%) replies to those messages.
When composing a reply to such articles, people - rather than defending preset opinions about this issue, how about digging up the actual proposal and critiquing it on its merits? This appears to be an extension of some "child protective services" program. What's the alternative to society supporting some form of CPS? CPS already has authority to take your kids away pending judicial review - is that not more draconian than providing at-risk families the choice (apparently) to move into a closely monitored housing unit? How that monitoring occurs is a separate issue - too often technology is seen as a low cost alternative to hiring police or caseworkers.
On the other side of the question, there is a statement of expanding what already seems to be a pilot program to extend to 20,000 "units". (I would refer to these as households, but have no evidence to suggest they function as such.) Presumably each residence has multiple cameras, so this may amount to a few hundred thousand 24/7 camera feeds. Who is going to watch all those cameras? If the data are to be recorded, for how long will the data be archived? This is a huge ongoing expense and describes a job that few qualified people would be willing to take. How will the cameras be protected? Cameras in a house are going to be within reach of the inhabitants to tamper with - or simply repoint to leave rooms or hallways unmonitored. Will there be audio? Will the cameras pan and zoom? Will there be cameras in the bedrooms and bathrooms? Who is going to protect the at-risk children from predators behind the cameras?
Topics on slashdot are not necessarily different than topics on mainstream forums. What distinguishes slashdot from other forums is the quality and point-of-view of the comments. A discussion about our pet topics will often be illuminating and insightful. We should bring the same intellectual rigor to the broader issues facing society.
There are plenty of humans, the last thing we need is unproductive ones breeding. In the US we get a tax break for each kid which just encourages breeding in this country... and that's just the start once you throw in welfare benefits that pay you to have kids and not work.
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
This would be an amazing thing in the US, we could use it to monitor our elected officials to know who they're meeting with to prevent corruption.
Look on the bright side, in the alternative "bad" universe the headline would read:
UK to take kids from 20,000 worst families and put them in state-run foster care, where they can be monitored by closed-circuit TV just like all other foster families.
Hmm, I hope I didn't give anyone any ideas there....
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You guys aren't familiar with the Express "news"papers are you?
The UK is introducing CCTV cameras claimed to "predict" if a crime is about to take place and alert operators to suspicious behaviour, such as loitering, apparent thought in public, walking while brown or not spending money fast enough.
Anyone spotted may then have to explain their behaviour to a police officer. "Tough on lack of consumer confidence, tough on the causes of lack of consumer confidence," said Nick Hewitson of EDS Capita Goatse SmartCCTV. ("Consumer confidence" is a technical economics jargon term measuring willingness to casually spend ridiculous sums of cash on idiotic rubbish, particularly while drunk.)
"Only a criminal terrorist paedophile with something to hide could possibly object," said councillor Jason Fazackarley. "Criminals will pay much better attention to their dress and grooming with cameras there. Channel 4 has tentatively offered us a reality TV show. And Channel 5 would quite like the tapes of drunken shagging in shop delivery bays."
The project has been compared to the Tom Cruise science-fiction film Minority Report, in which psychic journalists are arrested on CCTV before they commit the crime of not peppering articles with the most obvious possible cliches copied from other papers.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister were intended to be satirical comedies.
In Canada, every new MP in Ottawa is told to watch them on there first day. "Just to get an idea of how things actually work ..."
FTA: "Pupils and their families will have to sign behaviour contracts known as Home School Agreements before the start of every year, which will set out parents' duties to ensure children behave and do their homework."
Man, I hate bullshit faux-"behavior contracts" like this. What do the families get in return? Do the students get barred from school if they refuse to sign?
Have behavioral standards and inform them in a handbook. If there's no negotiation or choice, then there's no real contract.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Like Benjamin Franklin said: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for lunch"
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I did read it more as a "welfare state (concept)" doesn't have to create the problem, but this welfare state (implementation) doesn't reduce the problem as intended.
I always felt like their needs to be multiple different quotas. IE welfare females that put-out to welfare males = bad. welfare females should have to either babysit, or other productive work like putting out to nerds, or other socialy challenged males that need their social training = good.
"Escape from Britannia": New movie starring Kurt Russell...
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
So, I take it we're copying the yanks now?
I've seen a few Cops episodes where they had actually installed cameras in people's houses to stop domestic violence, and potential child abuse.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Due to all the cameras, there is almost no crime anymore. All they need to do is re-introduce the death penalty, so there will be no more murders, just like in the USofA.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
That's what I was thinking too. Maybe this Ed Balls guy (The secretary for Children in Britain) is really just a total pedophile who wants to make endless hours of child porn videos by installing cameras in 20,000 homes.
"I like it when the red water comes out.."
If true, this is definately "Double-Plus Un Good", Orwellian England comes closer by the day. This level of nanny state interference deminishes the whole of society by creating an entire generation of citizens who will not only accept the state control but expect it too.
The more we read daily about the way the U.K. is going, the more we thank God that we were amongst the fortunate ones about to escape/emigrate from the place in the nineties for a better life in the land down under. Ok, so Oz isn't doing that well on the censorship rankings at the moment with the proposed internet filter, but we are getting more and more concerned each day about the quality of life and diminishing rights of the family and friends left behind.
Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
What a shit people those limeys are!!! They truly are really the worst, crappy, most disgusting people on Earth! They built a worldwide empire to pillage and plunder the Earth, they meddled in politics all over the planet and screwed-up most countries they set their little grubby hands on, they have had throughout their History the most callous, appaling, ghastly, disgusting attitute towards the poor, and now this!!! The poor are denied the very basic human rights that are taken as unalienable for those who are not poor!
The article quoted is fiction.
http://www.respect.gov.uk/members/article.aspx?id=8846
While there are plans to move the worst offenders into monitored units, there will not be a single CCTV installed into a single home.
-- Jared Earle | "There is no spork"
"Oh Maggie, Maggie what did we do?"
I, too, blame Thatcher. Her legacy still stands strong. *sigh*
had lost the war.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
A lot of authoritarian states (including Nazi Germany and a number of middle-eastern states today) encouraged private ownership of firearms because presenting a foreign threat and stressing that individuals have to be ready to defend their country against foreign aggressors is a very easy way of promoting xenophobia.
Nazi Germany may have encouraged certain people to own guns, but the government still required all but government workers, NSDAP members and, to some degree, hunters to acquire licenses, and they certainly also disarmed a lot of people.
I have to admit though that I don't really know a lot about gun control laws in the Middle East, but according to what I've read about Iran, they are even worse (government has the sole right to distribute arms), especially since the Shah are gone (gun control laws where strict under their regime as well, though not really enforced in the countryside). Feel free to point out counterexamples to this though, I'd really be interested in reading them.
A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
So this is how we create more jobs, good thinking!
I'm quite willing to believe this, but are there really any other options besides taking away children from abusive parents? Of course, people could try to fix the current care system though...
A good education is a bit like a STD - it makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and gives you a desire to spread it.
Good points. And as the number of viable places for people to escape into is reduced, gov't control increases apace.
A nasty voice in the back of my head just whispered that this could be behind certain federal land grabs of remote areas. I think my tinfoil hat leaks.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
....to Australia?
Seriously though, what is going in the UK? Does the majority of the population actually want to live in a society like '1984' or 'V is for Vendetta'?
That aside, where is the social worker in all of this? If the kids are not being cared for, not sleeping well and/or missing school, they should be removed from that home.
By all means go ahead with your plan.
P.S.: this gentleman would like to have a word with you about it, first.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Like people in other Western nations, 95% of Canadians have no idea how to live in the wild, or even without a grocery store close by. Which is one of the reasons why that wilderness is mostly empty.
Bibo Ergo Sum.
These are not normal private residences, but are Government housing where you are sent to live ("sin bins"). Also, the story is from October of 2005.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=2115
GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE! Look up there, at the hovering gravball eyes: we now get to be on TV 24/7! Wave to the eyes!
God help us if we force cameras upon people and force them to stop raping their children, assaulting elders, dealing in crack, selling stolen guns and the ten million other dangerous actions that trash tend to take, We sure wouldn't want to interfere with these jewels of society. Let's enforce privacy laws so that this evil continues to grow and spread!
Join US(A).
Will there be a camera in the royal household? They seem to be pretty fucked up.
You can have your god back when you are old enough to handle the responsibility.
A family 'failing to do its job' is by their definition a family that doesn't comply with middle-class behavioral norms. What if your child says something at school deemed a bit too radical (such as 'Blair should be hanged in accordance with the Nuremberg laws...'
I'd tell them to go to Wikipedia and look up what the Nuremberg laws were. Tony Blair, not being jewish, would certainly have nothing to fear from these particular laws.
that is the best response I've seen yet. What is good for the goose is good for the gander as well. Do they seriously expect a houshold to PAY for the electricity to run a camera ?!?! I can see the fuse blowing on these ALL the time.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Holy cow, I never thought surveillance would get this far in the UK. Once CCTV monitoring inside problem families homes is accepted (sounds reasonable doesn't it) then it will be inside convicted criminals houses (still sounds reasonable), then suspected criminals homes (hmm), then inside the homes of people who drop litter, then the homes of those who drove past a protest, then the homes of YOU. WAKE UP!
Knowing my luck I've now been put on a list somewhere for potential anti-government terrorist speak - just for this posting.
It worked for Ozzy Osbourne and his family. Survivor Little Britain anyone?
But seriously... what will putting a camera on these people 24/7 show? Its already understood there is a problem, having a camera to observe the problem doesn't do anything towards solving that problem. The solution of "make it easier to arrest these criminals" doesnt stand up to scrutiny... where would you put them all?
Why not spend 400m pounds (or other ridiculous amounts printed in crappy tabloids) on improving education and 'income assistance' where low wage earners have their wage topped up to make it more worth their while to get that low paying starter job? Not paying welfare beneficiaries any actual money (food coupons and essential utilities payed for instead) may help on the misspending.
This type of downward evolutionary spiral can not be combated from within... by applying opposing force, you simply make them push back harder (making their focus "how do I beat the law?" rather than "how do I make a better life for myself?"), the solution is to prevent new people from entering the vicious cycle and provide as many opportunities for people to leave it as possible. The reality is that human conditioning is very hard to change (even if the subject is willing) but hope is a very strong feeling and a small taste can stay with people for a lifetime.
Of course if you have a controlling elite that deliberately works at undermining the lower class to keep them dumbed down and locked into low income 'slavery', then you would need to resolve that issue first.
Plan V anyone?
Yeah, because all hunters know how to make their own ammunition and grow their own food.
Recently, the government had the idea of taxing employers for each parking place they provided to employees. No doubt they need this money so that they can waste on utter nonsense like CCTV in people's homes.
The UK taxpayer is handing over tax money for rubbish that we can ill afford.
failure to protest against this means you deserve it, really. I wouldnt have that in a million years, id rather go out bravehearted. uk gov tagged 'lame'
beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
...Big Brother.
It does, on first sight, seem rather invasive. On the other hand, so is jailing people; we are after all not talking about families that are bit out of the ordinary - we are talking about families that are a serious problem and causing major grief to all round them. And I imagine the way it will work is that if you are one of those families, you can get extra benefits, but only if you accept surveillance; I suppose it makes sense from a certain angle - society doesn't want to pour money directly down the drain, so they want to try to make sure that it doesn't get spent on drugs and booze, but actually ends up benefitting those that need it.
That being said - while the problem is real enough, I don't think the cure is the right one; it doesn't really address the root causes of the problems, it is merely trying to treat the symptoms. IMO a significant part of the problem is social inequality; if the parents are at the bottom of the ladder, then they don't have to resources necessary to provide good conditions for their children to grow up in, so they end up in the worst schools, they get into gangs and trouble, and when they grow up, they will become parents to whom this is just the way the world is, and who expect their children to go the same way.
Hunters are not survivalists.
You're talking definitions. I meant 'Hunter' in the sense used by Castaneda. I certainly wasn't thinking of armed hosers in orange hats.
Definition games are boring.
-FL
Can't imagine. I remember reading this book back in the 1970s that sounded eerily like this. Some guy ... Nene or Ouse or Orwell or some East Anglian river, "1948" or "2001" or "2010" or one of those 4-digit names? It's on the tip of my tongue. Like a rat.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Like people in other Western nations, 95% of Canadians have no idea how to live in the wild, or even without a grocery store close by. Which is one of the reasons why that wilderness is mostly empty.
Sadly, I'd say that it's closer to 98%. But that's still about a half million people, more than enough to burn a nation to the ground. --And about quarter of the remaining 98% are just sleepers who might wake up if things get too hot too fast, which is why the government works so hard to keep them asleep and to step lightly.
The rest of the population is comprised of retarded bog creatures; I can honestly understand why the elite feel no compassion when making them into slaves. They're wonderfully useful machines used for moving wealth from the world into your pockets and they're altogether too stupid to realize they're being used in this way; they eat up the manipulations as though manna were falling from heaven, and they even vote for the very people who despise and use them.
It's sometimes hard to care about them at all, but then one realizes that they are stupid exactly because the Powers That Be have worked to keep them in the dark. Humans could be amazing if they weren't enslaved.
Defeat the slavers, emancipate the Light.
-FL
Mr. Buttle (or is it Tuttle?)
-Viz
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
Any chance I could get one of those toothbrush camera's installed as well so you guys can make sure I'm brushing my teeth properly? And how about a toilet paper camera as well? Make sure my ass is clean please!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z62ikGqIuUY
"Where will it end?" Rectum Cam.
How do you know it hasn't happened? The FBI don't care who they throw in jail as long as they get credit.
After you get past the initial "Oh-no!" phase, it's actually somewhat humorous to see that guys picture and imagine him wanting to install a camera in your home. The icing on the cake is that his name is Mr. Balls.
I can say [REDACTED] anytime I want!