Slashdot Mirror
ELF Knocks Down AM Towers To Save Earth, Intercoms
ScentCone writes "The ELF (Earth Liberation Front) has claimed responsibility for destroying the primary AM towers used by radio station KRKO in Washington state. From their statement: 'AM radio waves cause adverse health effects including a higher rate of cancer, harm to wildlife, and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines.' The poor intercom performance must have been the last straw."
AM radio causes cancer?
...well maybe your home intercom *is* in danger... won't someone please think of the intercoms?!?
I'm from Jamaica, the show-me island. So show me you're blowing it out your fanny!
(obligatory Futurama reference)
I wonder if any of these ELF people understand physics... Radio behaves according to the inverse square law; in effect, your cellphone exposes you to much more power than all the cell towers around you, simply due to it being much closer. Similarly, any local transmitter you have (e.g. microwave ovens, CRTs, wifi APs, high-speed digital circuitry, etc) will expose you to more power than those far-away broadcast towers. Unless the AM radio tower is in your backyard, you are probably not in tremendous danger...
I'm tired of these treehuging illiterate morons. The government should go after them with guns...
What a bunch of fucking idiots.
Oh my God, these ELF guys are dumber than a box of hammers. Put their brains in a matchbox and they'll rattle around like a bunch of bbs in a boxcar. Where the hell is the science that shows an AM tower a mile away from your home is giving you cancer? Or hell, a hundred meters from your home? These retards will believe whatever junk science validates their owned warped view and they never fucking question it, defending it to the death. Fuck 'em. Lock these idiots up.
People still have working intercoms in homes? I thought that those went out in the 70's to early 80's.
"Domestic Terrorism: It's funny. Laugh."
After all, if it weren't for these towers and their evil mind-infiltrating radio waves, these people would've never knocked them down in the first place!
Vandalism of what amounts to a public resource for political ends is either civil disobedience or domestic terrorism. If it's the latter, they deserve prison time. If it's the former, they should demand to go to jail and wear their prison garb as a badge of honor. As long as the individuals who did this stay in hiding they are nothing but cowards.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
They should have just wrapped the towers in tin foil.
First, damage to property is not violence. The proper response is to seize the assets of anyone connected with the plot, and prosecute the case as a crime.
Second, no one should condone irrational behavior like this. But before you go after the environmentalists with guns, you should probably consider that in the grand scheme of things, the loss of AM towers are the tiniest problems facing the nation right now.
If you want to repeat history, by all means, crack down on the ELF and send them all to prison and beat up anyone in the group. Throw the PATRIOT act in their faces. Within no time at all you will have given their movement the publicity and recruiting tools to really cause problems. And erode public support as more and more people are locked up by guilt from association. Or you can arrest the criminals who participated in the act, force the dissolution of the rest of the group unless they officially renounce property damage as a method of protest, and actually take care of the problem.
The electromagnetic spectrum is not a hard concept to grasp. Radio waves are about the most harmless radiation there is. They have a lower frequency than microwaves, infrared, or fucking ordinary visible light. Are they going to blow up the sun next?
Yet another group of ignorant children playing dangerous games in the adult world. Sigh.
But they are right about the interference issue. I live a little more than a mile away from AM towers, and they cause all kinds of goofy stuff. Anything with speakers or headphones is an AM radio here. I had to buy new equipment to get rid of the interference via trial and error with my wallet. I used to dismiss the Brady Bunch episode where Jan's braces picked up a radio station. But now it seems plausible.
However, I assure you I have no plans to bomb it. Although, I'd like give them a 20-foot finger.
Table-ized A.I.
Can't you hear how they are crying out "No, his antenna is too small. It will never carry low enough frequencies. Die, you small antenna!"?
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
It's because of the AM radio! If it were destroyed, we'd all have working intercoms again!
Say it with me:
"This is why we need science education"
"This is why we need science education"
"This is why we need science education"
Any relationship between ELF and SPEW (Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare)?
Why the "treehugging" qualifier?
Because these people don't want to "save" the planet for man... they place the planet above man. They view this not as our home, but view people as inferior, a parasite on their world. We call them treehuggers because these people are essentially a pagan earth cult. They're a Gaia-worshipping Luddite movement.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
"Y'know, I can almost respect them for torching SUVs "
If you can almost respect them for destroying someone else's property, then you're almost as much as asshole as they are.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Pussy eating aliens - who would've thought!?
Elrond and Legolas entered in the Most Wanted Fugitives FBI list.
we are going to need to burn some oil and release more CO2 into the air as we transport workers and materials in the rebuilding effort. I'm glad the ELF thought this through.
These are the same nutters who think we are enslaving the honey bees. No kidding. http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
These ELF people may not be bright, but I assure you that they know that AM radio will not give you cancer. They took out the antennae because they did not like what was being broadcast from them, and because they could.
In one of their typical "look at me" extreme vandalism moves, they get to silence some major critics pre-emptively, and still get lots of attention.
-- Len
Disclaimers: I live a few houses down from the station owner, so I've followed this for a while. I was a broadcast engineer in a past life (even did some contracting at a former iteration of this station.)
Here is the story from the local paper: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090905/NEWS01/709059909&news01ad=1 (good set of pictures)
From the Seattle Times version: "Andy Skotdal, general manager of the family-owned sports-radio station, isn't convinced ELF is responsible, even though the group's North American press office in Washington, D.C., issued a news release and posted an item on its national Web site Friday saying it was.
He suspects disgruntled locals who have long opposed the siting of the towers on 40 acres of farmland may have taken matters into their own hands after losing a key ruling in King County Superior Court a few weeks ago.
"My suspicion is, it's somebody local," Skotdal, whose family has owned the station for 20 years, said by phone Friday as he watched dozens of sheriff's detectives and FBI agents comb the property for evidence. "It could be somebody painting ELF on a banner to throw off suspicion."
In the same story, the FBI sees a few things that point to ELF but they are only a day into the investigation. I'd lay away from making a call right now on who is responsible.
Either way, stealing a excavator, driving it through a muddy field and pulling down two towers has to leave a good amount of evidence. I'm also thinking that the guy wires must have been cut too, just to keep from kill the machine operator on the first tower.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
If you want to repeat history, by all means, crack down on the ELF and send them all to prison and beat up anyone in the group. Throw the PATRIOT act in their faces. Within no time at all you will have given their movement the publicity and recruiting tools to really cause problems. Within no time at all you will have given their movement the publicity and recruiting tools to really cause problems. And erode public support as more and more people are locked up by guilt from association.
I agree with all of your post except this point. Unlike many Islamic terrorist groups, the ELF rarely if ever takes any sort of positive action "back home" to draw in sympathy (e.g. Hamas and Hezbollah run charity hospitals). Additionally, those organizations have an enemy that is widely reviled by their neighbors and considered a threat to their lives and way of life (i.e. Israel and the US). Sympathy for terrorism only happens when normal people feel there's some sort justification for the terrorists' actions.
ELF, in contrast, strikes out seemingly randomly at many targets that are not nearly the worst offenders, like the radio station here or by burning an entire car dealership for selling SUVs. Worse for them, the rest of the green movement is generally filled with people who respect principles of nonviolence and wouldn't support such against against even the worst offenders. That's why next to no one has any sympathy for ELF; they're practically green anarchists. I'm about as tree-hugging as you can get, but absolutely NO environmentalist that I know has ANY sympathy for these losers.
Personally, I'd be happy if they were all locked up so that those of us who aren't violent radicals wouldn't have to have them used against us by people on the other side of the debate.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Maybe AM radio causes cancer, maybe it doesn't. Why take a chance? From now on, I'm only going to listen to FM.
What a bunch of fuckups. lol AM towers, now that's random. What's next windmills? Um, they impede the free movement of air and adversely affect trees and avian flight. Yeah that's it. /pant
Where's my sock? There it is...
If its specifically AM radio, how does the cell detect the modulation and know to become cancerous? Thats one damn smart tumour.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
We should totally start using armed Predator drones on these fuckers. The ELF, not AM radio towers.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
But they are right about the interference issue. I live a little more than a mile away from AM towers, and they cause all kinds of goofy stuff. Anything with speakers or headphones is an AM radio here.
But you, being a sensible human being, realized that the solution was to buy shielded cables and electronics, not to trash a radio tower that serves your entire area. Yes, in our digital age, interference is irritating, but radio transmission and EMI is absolutely integral to our lifestyle.
Number one rule for direct action:
Have your facts straight. If you target the wrong people, or if your science is bad, you're sacrificing credibility and making people angry for no good reason.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
You can almost respect them for destroying someone elses car? Then you just barely have morals.
Ferrite cores. If you put them on the wires picking up the signal, it's supposed to stop the pickup.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Just go ahead and check out these instructions on how to make "Holy Hand Grenades" and "Tower Busters". Granted, this is less destructive than knocking down towers, but the ignorance involved is just about as scary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccS70UQE0fE
Y'know, I can almost respect them for torching SUVs - If the government won't tell people "No, you may not drive a vehicle that presents a significant danger* to everyone else on the road, without special training for the appropriate license class", then perhaps fear of having their car burn down one night kept at least a few people driving more realistic vehicles.
So lemme get this straight. You almost respect them for:
- extreme vandalism,
- severely inconveniencing people who rely on their vehicles, which also inconveniences the people who rely on them,
- causing a metric fuckton of air pollution all in one go,
- risking catching something else or someone on fire,
- destroying an SUV that will likely be replaced with ANOTHER SUV, thus INCREASING the demand for them,
because you think the LICENSE BUREAU isn't doing a good job? Would you respect them more or less if you thought they were burning SUVs because the patent office isn't doing a good job?
I always knew that GCC produced gigantic ELF files, but big enough to knock over an AM tower? This is just ridiculous.
the group's North American press office in Washington, D.C., issued a news release and posted an item on its national Web site Friday saying it was.
When an eco-terrorist organization claims responsibility for another eco-terrorist act, people are going to take them at their word.
While the full name is spelled out in the summary, I just decided to check on google if there was any info on them. Well, even the Endangered Language Fund is listed before anything related to them when searching for ELF. Just get rid of them already!
C'mon, analog radio will follow analog TV within the next few years, with or without an FCC mandate (market forces alone will do the trick, no doubt at all).
I sure hope not. One of the last broadcast media that I can actually build a receiver to listen to? If we have to buy a computer from BIG_IC_MANUFACTURER_X just to listen to a radio broadcast, it will almost certainly be non-serviceable and we'll just throw it away and get a new one when it stops working. Too bad for your "market forces" that people still depend on emergency broadcasts on analog radio. Why force people to be consumers by forcing them to use non-serviceable crap?
I'd never associate with the Earth Liberation Front. Now the Liberation Front of Earth, that's what it's all about. Not like those bastards in the Frontier for Earthern Liberation.
ELF is evil, I said it since 1995! We should switch to COFF at once!
I think it was sponsored by "The Shack" trying to sell more HD radios. Only analog AM was taken out.
They weren't warned of tornadoes... forest fires... etc. I'm certain these things cause more deaths than AM radio. Seriously... what were these jackholes thinking?
This all started out by someone saying that knocking down the radio tower was not violence, and now you are saying that knocking down the tower is not an official crime of violence.
If one looks at what is defined as a crime of violence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_crime, you are correct.
However, the OP is quite wrong. The word "violence" in and of itself most certainly covers this act (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/violence).
Also, watch out for ground loops. If you plug your computer into your power strip, and then plug an amplifier into the analog audio out connector, and then plug your amp into the outlet, you've created a loop antenna in the ground system (there's a loop running from power strip to computer to amp to power strip, because the audio out cable has 2 single-ended signal lines plus a ground line). Getting rid of such loops can be hard (cutting the ground line in the audio cable doesn't entirely solve the problem and has its own issues, for example), but being aware of them and minimizing the area that they enclose can help dramatically.
I saw an example where the problem was exactly as above, and until they moved the power cables around to shrink the loop the local AM station always played on the speakers.
Just as a point of fact, there is a rather significant water shortage in the entire western third of the US. There is already at least one major body of water in the SW which has been converted from part of the aquifer to a source of alkaline dust which plagues LA. If you think you can tap enough water from anywhere to supply California farmers you don't know anything about water conservation.
There is a difference between being an environmentalist and being an eco-terroist. Attempting to manage a limited resource by balancing both the needs of the human population in the area as well at the environmental needs isn't about being a nutjob, it's about trying to avoid another dustbowl.
I have done environmental impact statements. I have studied water and land management. The one thing I have always found is that if anything I say stands in the way of someone making money, it's wrong and based on crackpot science. If it helps clear a hurdle, it's sacred gospel. The farmers in CA will scream until they get as much water as they want, and then they will scream when the brush and forest fires are even worse.
Even if I can find that mammal, how do I get it to stay still?
Table-ized A.I.
I always knew there was something I didn't like about elves. Go dwarves! :)
You forgot: The sun is the main cause of global warming. Take the sun away, and there will be no global warming at all, no matter how much CO2 you put into the atmosphere.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
so if they claimed credit why can't we put them all under the jail? At least the office staff claiming credit.
Really, if they want credit then give them responsibility too.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Funny that, I've worked in radio stations where the audio board was 6 feet away from the transmitter. We didn't have the AM signal bleeding into the audio, or the phone system, or anything. You must not have you equipment setup right. See the post in this thread about ground-loops.
Have you tried calling the station for help? Most will gladly let you talk to the engineer to figure out a solution.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
A tower outside of Allentown, PA was deliberately felled the same night. As it was a guyed tower, the vandals cut the guys to bring it down.
Yeah, my thinking exactly. You'd almost think they are employed by the oil industry or something in order to turn the public opinion against the green movement. Surely they are not so dumb as to not realize that the only real effect of their actions is to harm the causes that they claim to believe in.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
It's not about 'not having enough water.' California is not like the midwest, or Texas, where water is removed from the ground; in California, the reservoirs are replenished every year with water from the mountains, and when that goes onto fields, it actually replenishes the water table.
The issue right now is that a lot of water from the reservoirs is being dumped into the ocean instead of onto fields in an effort to protect the delta smelt. Now, you may think the delta smelt is worth saving, or you may not, but either way you're not going to get a dust bowl in Central California. Nor does it have anything to do with forest fires. You may have done environmental impact statements, but you clearly don't understand the current water issues in California.
Qxe4
They should be prosecuted, sued, shot, sent to the Russian Front, drawn & quartered, horse-whipped, shunned, starved, hanged, keelhauled, AND then put in prison.
Yeah, that should about cover it.
First off, "carrying capacity" estimates are all over the map. True, 0.5B may be the "low impact" carrying capacity, but even that's not a zero-impact - according to something I saw on TV, we have archaeological evidence that pre-Columbian Americans ruined fisheries and caused other localized environmental damage.
Second off, even if we were beyond capacity, the answer lies in encouraging low birth rates without resorting to China-esque techniques, more responsible stewardship of the natural resources we have, advances in science to feed more people with less environmental impact, and in the very long term, space exploration and colonization.
Mother Nature will also put in some degree of population control: As we have a few mega-disasters every century, each one will kill hundreds of thousands rather than the tens of thousands or thousands it would kill if we only had 0.5B spread roughly evenly around the habitable parts of the planet.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I'm really not trolling here, but PETA has been funding ELF for years.
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/columns/story?columnist=guest_columnist&page=g_col_PETA_ELF_NYPost has a reprinted article from the NY Post.
I don't see many stories that are very recent, outside of what seem like blogs and bash-fests, but since PETA has denied ties all along, it doesn't make much difference to me whether they claim to have stopped or not.
When California was surveyed by the U.S. in the 1800s, it was labeled a "desert" (along with virtually everything else west of the rockies). and they estimated it could only sustain one family every 10,000 acres. Now California has a density of about 1 family every 10 acres, and people wonder why it's running dry of water. (duh)
It's called overpopulation folks.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
This isn't quite as bad as them burning things, which are just going to be rebuilt anyway; but it's still going to use quite a bit of energy when the tower is repaired.
I'm not a "true believer" in the A part of AGW. I'm just using "spews carbon" here as a shorthand for things that are bad for the environment. Something tells me ELF doesn't run out and purchase offsets everytime they "do an action".
So. For the good of the planet, ELF must be stopped!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
So you fall into the category of people who think freaky sex is ok, or at least not harmful to society. There are other people who believe that freaky sex IS harmful to society, though I don't particularly care to repeat their arguments here.
Qxe4
I just cut down a couple of trees that were messing up my satellite TV reception.
Thanks for the tip.
But come on, this is just silly.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I could swear that ELF is (or used to be) some kinda oil company.
Now that would add a twist, wouldn't it? Oil located in the middle of a town, but there's a damnable radio mast right where the drill needs to be. "I know boss, why don't we destroy it, say that 'ELF' did it and let everyone assume it's those other chumps."
Alternatively, if could just be a very arrogant Elf, who always writes his name in full caps. I'd love to see an elf taking down a radio mast, that would be awesome. A christmas-style elf, rather than a Tolkien-style one, naturally. No-one wants to see Orlando Bloom firing arrows at things any more than we already have.
On a side note, since this seems to crop up quite regularly... Hamas are not terrorists. No more than the US, UK, Australian, Spanish, Chinese, Pakistani (etc') Governments are.
Simply being the elected officials in a Nation whose own legitimacy is dictated by another Nation doesn't automatically make them terrorists because they fight a war against said Nation.
Although, in an effort to be reasonable, I did a little digging and apparently the US Government disagrees with me and officially considers Hamas to, in fact, be terrorists. So I suppose it is reasonable for those of you who wish to believe so to follow your Government's policy on that.
But hey, I've apparently put the US Government on the same level as Hamas anyway, so frankly I don't really care what they consider Hamas to be; I know what I consider.
Hmm, by the way, before I get trolled, I should mention, I'm only comparing the two Governments in terms of the legitimacy of war declarations, it's a fair shout that the US Government does rather a lot more for its people domestically.
Lots and lots of copies of the Necronomicon!
I wonder if anybody has calculated how much carbon was dumped into the atmosphere when they burned down that car dealership?
My rights don't need management.
I suggest you examine you reservoirs before you make that statement. Most of the ones in California are running around 60% full and dropping. As to your second point about replenishing the water table, it doesn't. Most irrigation techniques involve spraying the crops as opposed to root irrigation. Doing so involves approximately 8% evaporation. Following that, farms target irrigation volumes and timing to maximize penetration at the root level and minimize any further penetration. In short, they explicitly try not to replenish the water table.(Nebraska's water management recommendation - they're similar for every farming application with minor variations for indigenous soils & climate.)
[sigh] What exactly will happen to the delta if the smelt die off? The general hint is that nothing lives in a vacuum. The smelt are relatively insensitive to salination changes. However the vast majority of the life in a delta are not. If you overdrain the open water sources - lakes, streams, etc - the delta is going to turn into a salt swamp. I'm absolutely certain that you'll appreciate living in the area then because areas undergoing swampification smell so nice. Oh, don't forget to add in the malaria issue due to the large pockets of standing water.
The people of Owen's Lake would disagree with you.
That you would state this indicates you have no understanding of the roles the natural aquifer plays in underbrush management.
In short, just because the water is there and free flowing, it doesn't mean that it's not already serving a purpose.
Why, they just want to break stuff then add a cause later. I was asked to help build a bomb and blow something up by a faction or chapter of these morons.
I said "no, and if you every contact me again or do what you are asking me to do, my next call will be to the FBI and I will turn your ass in" Or something to that effect, that was 15 years ago, I haven't heard from them again and the "thing or place" is still there untouched.
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
You do realise that "ELF" are not really connected in any way? Any Vegetarian/Vegan" who wants to blow things up can do so, and spray paint some BS about "ELF was here!". I've looked through websites by people representing this "ELF" before, but for me, non violent creative vegan education is infinitely better. I practise Abolitionist Veganism.
---
And that's why you should always use XLR. XLR is low resistance and balanced (so the floor does not move around and cause AC hum), they can even deliver 78v power along two of the lines on demand to mics that require phantom power. All quality mics and amps are XLR. But most importantly XLR has very good SNR to kill that RF you're talking about. Some buzzing is from RF true, but mostly it is from the ground being on a different level on the different pieces of equipment you're using. If it was just RF you could solve that with a little a-foil. However the AC hum from dissimilar grounds is a little more difficult to get away from. If you must use two pieces of equipment and plug them into each other make sure you're using the same circuit, different circuits will for sure give you a different ground level. Also, if you're recording what is coming out of your amp, consider recording the amp by micing the amp, most pros use this method as they want to capture the unique sound of the amp and room as well as the little diddle on the 6 string, and you get rid of your little AC hum problem. (If you got the XLR mic, mic pre and blah blah blah)
I meant that as a joke, but "Troll" is close, right?
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
If inducing a current merely causes "an increase in temperature", please explain how radio communication works...
At the broadest perspective, sure, any energy input is "an increase in temperature". When you set up your crystal radio to receive AM transmissions, yes indeedy, the thing does warm up a bit as it absorbs EM radiation. (Even though some if it is turned into mechanical energy in the earpiece, it's not 100% efficient.) But describing the operation of the radio as "an increase in temperature" is misleading, to put it kindly.
Can non-ionizing EM radiation have an effect on biological systems? You are, quite literally, looking at the answer.
Can EM radiation in the radio range at low intensity have an effect on biological systems? I dunno. Consider the hot and cold spots that arise as you microwave your burrito. Could very mild but uneven heating have an effect?
If something "gets a little warmer", chemical reactions are affected. If you don't understand this last sentence then please go take a chemistry class and come back.
The scientific way of answering the question "does EM radiation effect biological systems" is to observe biological systems that have been exposed to various sorts of EM radiation and see if there are any effects. Saying "our models don't allow for such effects, therefore they cannot exist" is faith-based reasoning, not science.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Not at all. It's completely possible to induce an electrical current in anything conductive. The fact that this person's terminology was bizarrely trendy and nontechnical doesn't mean it is impossible. Implausible, perhaps, given the wavelengths in question....
The more serious problem with AM and FM radio is that some transmitters have massive low frequency leakage that doesn't get filtered out adequately before or after amplification, resulting in massive electromagnetic interference in low frequencies (tens of Hz) that can and do affect the human body and pretty much everything else nearby---interference that has been associated with a number of serious health problems, including cancer. This is more a matter of the transmitter being an ancient piece of crap than a problem with broadcasting in general, however. Ironically, the frequencies in question share an acronym with the organization that tore down this tower (ELF = extremely low frequency).
I'm not saying that these people are right for doing what they do, of course. The right thing to do if you detect such ELF leakage is to contact the FCC and get the station fined daily until they fix the problem or shut down.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
KRKO only broadcast local sports, no political programming whatsoever. I feel compelled to add: "you gigantic idiot."
You could have spent 5 seconds looking that up, you know. It's not like the radio station's format is classified. Hey look, they even have a website: http://www.krko.com/
Comment of the year
Clearly this was a diversion by the unskilled laborers unions in order to get a ban on construction equipment.
The "press office" in DC is bogus.
From the ELF Wiki entry "The Earth Liberation Front has no formal leadership, hierarchy, membership or official spokesperson and is entirely decentralized; instead consisting of individuals or cells who choose the term as a banner to use."
If the "press office" in DC is claiming credit for something that happened in Washington state then it should not be taken without a bag of salt.
Read up on the ELF before you start flaming all of them.
Also keep in mind the fact that by the definition the FBI uses to define "domestic terrorism" the "Founding Fathers" of the USA would all be terrorists. At its base this was an act of common vandalism, a state issue, but because credit has been conveniently claimed by a "Domestic Terrorist" group the FBI can come in and dig into anything they say is connected with it and then report back to congress and the press claiming that they need more power to run surveillance operations on US citizens.
And yes, I know I sound like I'm wearing a tin foil hat but sometimes the "nut jobs" see things others miss. And for the recored I'm wearing fire proof armor because I know I'm going to get flamed big time.
Great, but isn't most stuff that uses XLR connectors professional-grade? That means spending a good bit more on speakers and stereo.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Also magnetic cock rings.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
The size of the loop makes a difference. Consider two devices connected by a shielded signal cable. If they are plugged into the same power outlet, the loop is no larger than the length of the power cords and the signal cable. The safety grounds come together at the outlet. There should be no significant current flowing in the power cord safety grounds.
Now plug the two devices into different outlets. The outlet safety grounds might not come together any closer than the electrical panel. In theory, safety grounds only carry current during a malfunction. In practice, there are induced currents and leakage. One outlet's ground may carry leakage from a furnace blower motor, and the other does not. Cable TV coax is should be tied to the electrical panel ground where the coax enters the house. This means that the coax shield forms another large ground loop when connected to any single-ended device with a safety ground, for example audio equipment.
Devices powered from different outlets should not be connected by single-ended signal cables. Professional audio uses balanced connections, and the shield is usually only connected at the input side. You can put a ground isolation balun in the cable TV coax where it connects to your TV. If all of your home entertainment devices are plugged into the same outlet, and you isolate the cable TV ground, you should not have hum. Keep the cable short, and you shouldn't have RF problems. Speaker cables are long enough to act as antennas, so if you live near a transmitter, you may want to put ferrite cores on the cables near the amplifier.
At AM broadcast frequencies a tinfoil hat would work wonders; they must be out of tinfoil, somebody just ship them a free Costco-sized roll of the stuff, pat them on their pointy little heads, and send them off to their prison cell.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Can non-ionizing EM radiation have an effect on biological systems? You are, quite literally, looking at the answer.
Excellent example - you beat me to it :) In case the OP is a bit slow (likely!): a photon in the visible light spectrum is non-ionizing, yet it is able to excite photoreceptor cells in the retina by causing a molecule (appropriately named retinal) to isomerize, which catalyzes a whole chain of chemical reactions.
For that matter... if you really wanted to rub it in you could have even pointed out that heat receptors do roughly the same thing, so "an increase in temperature" directly causes chemical reactions in your skin!
Why is it always the people with the fewest facts who are the most arrogant, and start throwing around insults first? ;)
Of course, that being said, I'm sure we all agree that the ELF is a bunch of wackos, and your body absorbs thousands of times more radiation standing outside for a few minutes than it ever would from an AM antenna. We better be careful, their next terrorist act may be to destroy the sun!
So when is some federal prosecutor going to jail this guy for RICO? Eh?
"When all legal channels of opposition have been exhausted, concerned citizens have to take action into their own hands to protect life and the planet," Jason Crawford, a spokesman for the group, said in a news release.
If you're "in charge" of an organization that does these kinds of things, then you should be in jail.
Jason Crawford is just another mobster.
--
BMO
A few (too many) years ago, a friend was doing quite a bit of rf design work at home, but the radio station antenna a quarter mile away was injecting a hell of a signal into his if blocks. The solution? He remodeled his work room by tearing out the old plaster walls, re-insulating, updating the wiring, and stapling aluminum screen over the studs in the walls and ceiling before installing the gypsum board back over it. He tied the screen to a ground rod in salted soil to create a Faraday cage for the entire room. He used to laugh, saying that whenever he sells the house, the new owners will wonder why their cell phones and radios won't work in that room.
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
That should be: "The ELF (Earth Liberation Front) has claimed irresponsibility ..."
Gotta love the US of A. Some countries have infrastructure damaged by their own citizens that are communist militants, or islamic militants, or ethnic separatists...
Here, the Revolutionary Crackpot Army destroys nearly-obsolete means of communication. That's just surreal! And then people don't understand why I think that America has gone a tiny bit out of touch with reality.
Also, the claims that AM waves are harmful is, what, 80 years old? This has been debunked before these Revolutionary Crackpots were even born. Plus AM is at the lowest-energy end of the radio spectrum; if there's anything to worry about at all, it would be the microwave radiation that drives cell phone communications. I really wonder whether the people who toppled that tower own any cell phones, and what their opinion is on financially sponsoring corporations that dot the landscape with powerful microwave sources.
Lucky that I don't believe people cell phone towers expose people to harmful radiation levels because I'm living right next to onargggggglllll#@$%)^*&
We the people of Washington State militantly demand the highest quality intercom performance in the world! No matter who gets in our way
Yes, and anyone with a bit of sense doesn't fucking support PETA either! They're worse than the damn ELF!
'ELF' at least limits their harm to property, whereas PETA constantly harms animals, and them reaching their goal in life would end up with cows dying all over the place and people having to shoot feral cats and dogs.
And, perhaps more to the point, 'ELF' does not actually exist. There is no organization named 'ELF' that goes around doing things. There is a 'press office' that supposedly reprints messages from them, but there is no actual 'them', there is just a bunch of people doing whatever they want.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
I thought a lot of eco-terrorists were rich bored college students.
If that applies to this lot then they should demand a refund on their tuition because they clearly aren't well educated!
If they had blown up a nuclear reactor, or stolen a nuclear submarine. But no, they had to show their power in vandalizing an AM tower. What next? FM! That and they probably tootled off to microwave a late night snack after their efforts.
Let's turn it over to Ferris at the Irony Desk. Ferris.
Thanks, Cameron. The ELF activists have just taken down a radio tower in the name of the environment. Now the broadcast company will replace the tower. Undoubtedly they will utilize construction and transportation methods that the ELF won't like. Their efforts to protect the environment will only act as the catalyst for more harm to be done to the environment that would not have happened if they left the tower alone. Back to you, Cameron.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
... and wondered what we've gone and done to piss of the elves so badly.
Have gnu, will travel.
Ah! So that's what was happening... On my last laptop I could hear something at the very limits of my hearing at times. For a while I thought I was just going crazy, until I recognized a radio commercial. The paranoid in me wanted to start claiming that the government was letting advertisers use their brain control radio waves, but I decided that since my laptop had crummy EM isolation (to the point that it'd shock me if my hands were damp) it was probably just picking up AM radio somehow. I'm a bit glad to know for sure that my first two hypothesis are unlikely. The exact equipment in question was a Sony Vaio PCG-GRT360ZG with some ER-6i canalphones.
We aren't talking about a professional recording setup that had a little bit of hum or AM pickup. We're talking about basic amplified computer speakers and a normal computer. XLR gear is expensive; I doubt there exists a set of inexpensive amplified speakers with an XLR input, or an inexpensive sound card with an XLR output (which wouldn't even fit in the standard PCI slot opening), let alone an inexpensive motherboard with onboard audio with XLR output.
We're talking about a level of interference that meant it was annoying to use the speakers at all, not one that was merely slightly degrading high end audio quality. We're also talking about a college student who had no budget to spend on the problem, and wouldn't have been interested in high end audio gear even if he did. Nicer speakers, perhaps, but not recording studio gear. So, I diagnosed a ground loop as a possible explanation, told him to carefully rearrange his cables, and he did. The problem went from highly annoying to just barely perceptible. Sometimes the right solution to offer someone isn't the one that has them throw out all their gear and buy expensive stuff that they really don't need.
Personally, I go for the in between solution. I'm of the opinion that the inside of a computer case, with its myriad switching supplies that aren't designed for their audio performance, is a horrible place to work with analog audio signals, whether they leave the case by minijack or XLR. I have a sound card with optical digital outputs, and an amp with optical inputs. No ground loop, no stupid problems from putting sensitive analog stuff where it shouldn't be, and vastly cheaper than serious recording gear I don't need or care to pay for.
Show me how the receiving antenna changes at all. It doesn't, it is still a metal stick after working as antenna.
Looking at this screen isn't giving me cancer. I'd need UV or higher frequency, ionizing, radiation for that.
The scientific way of answering the question "does (low frequency) EM radiation effect biological systems (enough to give cancer)" is to apply the principals of science already known and to see if there is anyway within the model that it could happen. It can't. You can then go ahead and do a study anyway, to see if there is anything new to learn. Been done. There isn't, in this case, anything new to learn.
Non-ionizing radiation doesn't cause cancer, there is no reason to suspect it would. Saying "just because we can't prove it doesn't" is just like faith saying "we can't prove there isn't a God", and isn't science.
My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.
Why is it always the people with the fewest facts who are the most arrogant, and start throwing around insults first? ;)
No, seriously, take a chem class. :-P
My favorite quote doesn't fit into 120 characters. Now no one will like me.
I wonder how many furry little animals got cancer from the toxins emitted in the form of smoke?
Facepalm.
Look at Orion Blastar's post history. You, my friend, have just been trolled. This Orion Blastar guy probably makes Orgonite.
blah blah blah
Headphones probably didn't create a ground loop; there isn't exactly a loop to be found in the wiring. However, that's far from the only way for AM radios to be picked up. Various forms of input nonlinearities will rectify AM and let it sneak into the output. The solution is likely the ferrite cores mentioned by the GP post.
ELF hasn't committed any criminal acts that have been noteworthy as of late. Not that any of them were any good, although the entire car lot destruction of cars and setting them ablaze is pretty cool.
But an AM tower destruction? Do people listen to AM other than church sycophants and crazies or to hear traffic directions/problems. Seems kind of irrelevant other than the waste of money it will cost to bring those towers back up. ELF is just an obnoxious bunch of cowards, radio signals really don't cause that much problems for anyone. Besides those who actually are at the station, but it couldn't hurt that many people. And really, home phones and intercoms? hahahaha, that's a lame excuse.
-=Right after the AM tower fell=-
ELF member #1: Uh, so what's our reason for downing this tower anyway?
ELF member #2: Radio waves cause cancer. Oh and it harms animals. Definitely animals.
ELF member #1: Sounds good, what else though? We need something to close our argument.
ELF member #3: It disrupts home phones and.. and... intercoms! Intercoms are really important!
ELF member #1: Perfect! I'm writing this to all news stations. Hopefully it gets noticed by a Slashdotter.
That's definitely how it ended. That's how those idiots figured out what to say reasons were for taking down an AM tower, fucking retards.
One of ELF's favourtie tactics is driving metal spikes into trees so that when a logger tries to cut the tree down the chain on the chain saw breaks and injures the logger.
Burning AM towers alone may not people, but ELF has injured plenty of civilians in the past.
Sorry, but... [Citation Needed].
From Wikipedia:
From SourceWatch:
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
That's a brilliant idea for a porno!!
Be relentless!
Your entire post could be summed up as "I understand a little about radio and microwaves and its effects on animals and humans, and assume nobody else has ever studied this completely new phenomenon".
The truth is people HAVE studied radio and microwaves and its effects on animals/humans for many many years. They've also studied the 50/60 HZ radiation produced by power lines. The conclusions are that it's not harmful. Speculating about what it COULD do and coming up with pet theories about just how it MIGHT harm someone is not science, it's nonsense.
Your own ignorance is not other peoples ignorance. People like yourself who are willfully ignorant and who sit around speculating about how the unobserved harmful effect just MIGHT work are the reason I see stupid marketing on floor heating product about how their amazing technology cancels the EM radiation. Next I'll see marketing on bricks about how their amazing brick technology cancels all the virtual particles created in the empty space within atoms in the bricks. This makes it so the bricks don't gain mass over time.
AccountKiller
If something "gets a little warmer", chemical reactions are affected.
Humans function quite well, even when they 'get a little warmer'
The scientific way of answering the question "does EM radiation effect biological systems" is to observe biological systems that have been exposed to various sorts of EM radiation and see if there are any effects. Saying "our models don't allow for such effects, therefore they cannot exist" is faith-based reasoning, not science.
Nobody's saying that. They're saying that the guys who think their cell phone causes cancer are whackjobs and that the only observable effect is 'get warmer', which ain't shit.If you're concerned about radiation and how it affects you, go do a study. Good luck controlling for the ambient noise and the big ball of fusion in the sky pumping out ionizing radiation. In the meantime, since you haven't made any claims that can really be tested, our models don't cover such effects, there is no proposed mechanism and not much energy in the first place, I won't lose sleep.
Reboot macht Frei.
... after all they "FEL'ed" the tower didn't they?
LMAO. So, wait, someone who was doing the tree spiking, and recommended against certain forms of it due to the risk of injury, is your source for countering this? Since you're using Wikipedia semantics, allow me to throw one back at you: NPOV (that's Neutral Point Of View)...
how is this different from EM waves emitted by normal electrical lines (also in the tens of Hz), or by a plain car alternator, or a very green wind-turbine-powered generator?
How will that help with a physics problem?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The Vandals did more than just sack cities you know. When someone steals something, do you still say they 'gyped' you?, when someone is unwilling to spend freely, do you call them a jew? Still make polish jokes implying they are stupid?
Y'know, I can almost respect them for torching SUVs
Yep, standard issue American hysteria.
Hey guys, look at my new Ford Explorer, it's awsum. "Breaking news, SUVs are destroying the climate". OMG, we're all gonna die! Quick, let's torch all SUVs and hang their owners high!! It's the only way we can survive! OMGOMGOMG!!!
You just got troll'd!
ARRL also gave some notice about possible health risks related to ham radio activities. It seems that risks associated with strong RF fields should not be underestimated, indeed.
If anything, be it the FBI, ELF, the tower's neighboring annoyed humans, reading these comments one thing is clear, "exposure" to opinions, facts and possibilities. However, cancer causing chemicals that we ingest, bath in and wear are far more hazardous to life forms and the environment. It is just not exciting media material. Who wants to join a group that takes action against Johnson & Johnson by writing âoeCancerâ with a red sharpie shampoo bottles in shops? Too much effort and no cool undercover operation. Thanks FBI and ELF for distracting us from these more real threats that we willingly expose ourselves to in the name of progress.
Their rants have personally caused me hair loss, so I feel the need to destroy their property to send a message to the world.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
They did rid the region of one more crappy, mind-numbing AM station
(fart-joke morning guys, "your 24/7 traffic copter" and possibly even C&W music),
so there is something to be said for that.
Just saying...
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Do you have a reference for ELF(frequencies, not the group) damage to people?
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
, so, accordingly, an important step in the process is to NOTIFY the timber company and the media as soon as the spikes are in place. This is pretty clearly spelled out in "Ecodefense" and other literature of the radical environmental movement. The idea is to keep the trees standing, not to exact some kind of revenge against the loggers or sawmill operators.
If the loggers cut the trees after they have been warned about spikes, any injuries are their responsibility, not the spiker's.
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Intensity.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
There are dozens of contradictory studies out there. One will show correlation, the next one won't, and some even suggest possible causation of the release of radon, a known cancer-causing agent. Here are a couple:
http://www.midtod.com/9603/voltage.phtml
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7460-large-study-links-power-lines-to-childhood-cancer.html
It's too early to say that there's a causal relationship between power lines and cancer, but it's disingenuous to suggest that there's no possibility ELF has an effect on the human body.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Any Vegetarian/Vegan" who wants to blow things up can do so, and spray paint some BS about "ELF was here!
Replace 'Vegetarian/Vegan' by 'Muslim extremist' and 'ELF' by 'Al Qaeda' and it's still true.
Food distribution is a big factor, as are agricultural pollution and the side-effects of changing the use of land from non-cropland to cropland or from one type of crop or crop rotation to another.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If I oppose something, then I can knock it down with a bulldozer and I'm doing some sort of "societal good."
I also learned elsewhere that it is acceptable to pay someone under the table to commit acts of violence that I can attribute to my opponents.
And I learned elsewhere that sabotage, especially sabotage which threatens the lives of workers--like nails in a tree, for example--is a completely acceptable form of protest. Especially if someone gets hurt.
And ultimately I learned that the ends does not justify the means, unless I really really support the ends. Thus getting a gun to defend myself and my property is bad, unless I'm a tree hugger or support President Obama's policies on health care.
This whole "pursuit of the truth" and "loyal opposition" thing is so overrated.
Ok, let me start by saying that I think these people are actually quacks and AM Radio, according to all studies, does not put us at any greater risk for cancer. If you plan on going to do extreme things like destroy radio towers one would think that you would do some homework on the issue, first.
That said, looking at the rate of death from certain types of cancer could lead to some people seeking (or making up) answers. Lung Cancer has gone from 20 deaths per 100,000 people in the United States to about 80 per 100,000 today. That is a pretty sharp increase. I am pretty sure that the main cause, smoking tobacco has declined since that time. As the US moves away from manufacturing jobs the liklihood that your work environment is causing lung cancer drops as workplaces are "safer". That means you have to attack something in the general environment, which leaves you a lot of different factors. Chemicals in the air from power plants, cars, and whatever else seems like the first place to look but if you drive a car like many of these people probably do it would be hypocritical to scream about pollution. If you do not look into it much, various types of "Radiation" floating through the air at an increasing rate has to be a very easy thing to point a finger at.
Maybe the control rooms had special shielding?
Table-ized A.I.
She better be careful, the RIAA is gonna tax her mouth.
Table-ized A.I.
If the loggers cut the trees after they have been warned about spikes, any injuries are their responsibility, not the spiker's.
If you lock your doors after I announce my intention to enter your home and take your TV, the damage to your door is your responsibility, not mine.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
If you hit back, the ref will penalize the second guy, not the one who started it.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Since when the hell did we right wingers get confused with the Earth Liberation Front? We are far too busy torturing Muslims, driving SUVs, dodging the tax code, executing a vast conspiracy, shooting assault weapons, and eating red meat to clarify that the Earth Liberation Front is a band of commie tree huggers. Now that I have made this clarification, allow me to go back to eating my rare tenderloin steak and washing it down with a bottle of scotch worth more than your house.
Obama has nothing to do w/this.
Next time you say "nut case" - have a look in the mirror.
You are an example why old pharts are mocked and why amateur radio is considered the province of out of touch geezers far out of touch w/current technology.
BTW, I've also been licensed since I was 12 and held my extra since 1982, along w/commercial phone and telegraph.
But I know the difference between ELF and the POTUS.
Lung Cancer has gone from 20 deaths per 100,000 people in the United States to about 80 per 100,000 today.
You don't cite what year the 20 per 100,000 rate is from. I will tell you that Lung cancer takes 20 years to develop, so a high rate of smoking in the past (like we had in the 40s-60s) will lead to higher cancer rates 20 years down the road.
(oh, and you might want to note that Lung cancer rates are generally going DOWN since 1991, not up)
Here's a link to some sited statistics with years and scientific evidence behind it:
http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/statistics/trends.htm
So there's really no reason to look to exotic causes of lung cancer. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there's more pollution now than there was 30 or 40 years ago, or where this new "Radiation" that somehow is floating through the air in supposed greater quantities is.
AccountKiller
Y'know, I can almost respect them for torching SUVs - If the government won't tell people "No, you may not drive a vehicle that presents a significant danger* to everyone else on the road, without special training for the appropriate license class", then perhaps fear of having their car burn down one night kept at least a few people driving more realistic vehicles.
Please think more carefully.
You condone ideological crime? Because the government fails you, it is fair to fix the situation by yourself?
One thing that you should think is, how are you sure you are right? You are basically forcing your opinion on others.
This type of thinking, in a far greater scale, leads to the current situation of Africa - a humanitarian disaster largely caused by marxist guerrillas, radical islamic guerrillas and other people who take matters on their hands because the government fails them.
By the way, I too dislike SUVs and I ride a bicycle.
well, car alternator 3 feet in front of me vs. large antenna 2000 feet away ... mumble-pi-mumble-square root ... oh, I'll worry about the alternator.
>>>an important step in the process is to NOTIFY the timber company
By that logic Bin Laden is not a terrorist because he NOTIFIED us that we should leave the Arabian Peninsula alone, or else. In fact he notified us before he bombed the NYC trade center's basement. He notified us before he destroyed the OKC federal building (suspected but not proven), and before the USS Cole bombing. It's not his fault we did not listen. /end sarcasm
What the ELF is doing with tree-spiking sounds dangerous to people, even if they do notify the companies. If I'm 100 feet in the area and suddenly my saw hits a spike and the chain snaps, if I don't get hurt it will be pure luck. I will blame the ELF.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
We have a responsibility to take care of the earth and that includes animals, but if we put animal life above human life, who's going to take care of things?
No good deed goes unpunished. - Avon, Blake's 7
I think that nut who knocked the tower down deserves a lot of respect. He truly is a hero.
He risked his life to knock the tower down. He may die of cancer now. At least he did the entirety of society some good.
Here's an excellent article on one of the more famous tree-spiking injuries. And remember while reading this that it's written by an environmentalist who *opposes* the practice of tree spiking. Some excerpts:
-----------
L-P has never been known to spend too much time maintaining equipment or worrying about worker safety. But in the weeks preceding the tree spiking incident, conditions had gotten worse than usual. The bandsaw blade was wobbling when it ran, and cracks had begun to appear in it. But when George and other workers complained, Edwards shined them on, saying the new blades were not in yet, and they would have to ma1ke do. "That blade was getting so bad," said George, "That I almost didn't go to work that day." ...
The next thing he knew, George was lying on the floor covered with his own blood. "I knew I was dying. And all I could think about was Dick Edwards, and all the shit he gave me when I complained about the saw. I tried to get up, but they pushed me back down. I tried to beckon to Edwards so he would come close enough for me to get my hands around his throat in a death grip. If I had to die, I wanted to take that bastard with me." ...
LP didn't call the press right away, but when they did they had a field day. "Tree Spiking Terrorism," screamed the headline in the Santa Rosa Press Democrat. And even though there was no evidence that Earth First! was involved, the Eureka Times-Standard proclaimed, Earth First! Blamed for Worker's Injuries." Mendocino County Sheriff Shea put out a widely quoted press release that was almost gleeful in its condemnation.
"This heinous and vicious criminal act is a felony offense, punishable by imprisonment in State Prison for up to three years," he wrote, "Still undetermined in the investigation is the motive of the suspect or suspects, to deter logging operations or inflict great bodily injury and death upon lumber processing personnel," Even Louisiana-Pacific President Harry Merlo got into the fray, blaming "terrorism in the name of environmental goals" for George's injury.
Meanwhile, George and Laurie Alexander had a different take on the incident. "I'm against tree spiking," George told the press from his hospital bed. "But I don't like clearcutting either." Laurie also tried to include L-P in the list of culprits. "I hate L-P," she told me. "I like trees." But the press wouldn't print a word Laurie said, and George's comments about mill safety and clearcutting were mentioned in only one news article, by Eric Brazil of the San Francisco Examiner. ...
No matter what you think of LP's forest practices, this much should be clear: George Alexander is not the enemy. He has no say over his bosses' policies, either in or out of the mill. I have heard Earth First!ers say that doesn't matter, he shouldn't be working at an LP mill. Well, I shouldn't be driving a car either, but that doesn't make it okay to put a bomb in it.
After George refused to go on tour denouncing us, he was forced to return to work at L-P before his injuries even healed. His and Laurie's baby was about to be born, he needed money, and there were not many jobs where he and his family live. George got worker's compensation for the time he was off work, but LP didn't offer him a cent for the trauma and hardship he suffered. They made a big public show of putting up a $20,000-dollar reward for the information leading to the conviction of the spiker, but George Alexander had to file a lawsuit against Louisiana Pacific to get anything at all. And while the company was crying crocodile tears over his injuries in public, in private they were fighting him tooth and nail over his damage claim. He ended up with just $9,000 and an involuntary transfer to night shift. "They used my name all over the country," George told me. "Then they laid me off when the mill closed down."
-----------
My view: Perhaps if the sawmills didn't give
Get out, or I'll have vice-president Agnew's headless body throw you out!"