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What is the Current State of Home Automation?

StonyCreekBare writes "What do people have to say about the current state of Home Automation software? Preferably Linux based, but mainly the field in general, and principally the DIY flavors as opposed to the upscale turnkey systems. I am familiar with Misterhouse, HomeSeer and Automated Living's HAL2000, all of which have serious flaws and weaknesses, but which sometimes succeed well in specific areas. But in all cases, the state of the art seems to have moved little in the last decade. Is any interesting work being done in this space? Or should I just grab one of the three and try to mold it to fit my vision of what it should be? Misterhouse at least is open source so I can add new features, but it has not had an update in a long long time and seems to be missing some modern stuff. The other two are expensive and closed source, and from all I can see, quite flawed, not the least by their dependence on intimate ties to Microsoft. Yet they seem to offer a lot more than Misterhouse despite their weaknesses. Is the Home Automation field as bleak as it appears? Or have I missed the forest for the trees?" What home automation projects have people tackled? Any examples of wild success or failure?

409 comments

  1. Home automation by sopssa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since you bought up the open source / closed source fight, if you want customization that Misterhouse might be good. You can then submit patches and updates for the project (it seems it's still sometimes updated, last time in 2008)

    But because the other ones are closed source, it doesn't mean you cant add features in to them. HomeSeer supports 3rd party plug-in development and these kind of systems tend to be really configurable always.

    1. Re:Home automation by dasunt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since you bought up the open source / closed source fight, if you want customization that Misterhouse might be good. You can then submit patches and updates for the project (it seems it's still sometimes updated, last time in 2008)

      For cheap & crude, an IR transceiver (homebuilt), a few X10 controllers (ebay them, cheapest way), and an old box can be great. I ran heyu for the x10 stuff and lirc for the transceiver. Had an audio card with a few different outputs, so ended up scripting the remote to turn on and off audio outputs. An X10 plug would turn on and off physical components.

      It isn't the end all and be all, but my system controls audio and lights in my main room. Could have easily tied in MythTV as well, if I wanted to. Never played with climate control, since I live in an apartment.

      Sometimes crude is "good enough". And if isn't good enough, it may help you decide what you want in a better system. For example, the only thing I desired was a remote blinds control for my window.

      For cost, I used my main PC ($0), a home built transciever ($20 in parts, if that?), and a few X10 controllers ($10 each on ebay).

    2. Re:Home automation by sootman · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Open Source House fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig on an Open Source House elevator for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to climb 17 floors. 20 minutes. At home, on my Microsoft Home Automation Gateways MagicStair, running Escalator 1.0, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Elevator, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

      In addition, while on this elevator, my microwave will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even the parking garage is straining to keep up as I type this...

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    3. Re:Home automation by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Actually Misterhouse is updated almost on a daily basis. The SVN version is the one being update. At some point in the year a point release is decided and then the over all number get incremented. I use Misterhouse on a daily basis.

    4. Re:Home automation by thynk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a misterhouse user, I can attest that it's updated far more frequently than 2008. New code and patches are added the SVN on an as needed basis. New release comes out every so often, but users are encouraged to keep updated with the SVN. Also has a very responsive mailing list with a number of folks willing to help even the greenest n00b. Runs FAR better on linux than it does on Windows, at least in my experience. YMMV. I can't speak for the other bits of software, I dumped homeseer years ago, tho I understand it's quite popular.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
  2. Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wife 1.0 continues to work quite well, thank you.

    1. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      uummm ... tHis is /. ... Mom 1.0

    2. Re:Wife 1.0 by Nautica · · Score: 3, Funny

      I found that v3.0 to be much better then the previous versions, the 3.0 version includes such a vast feature sets like "cooking, cleaning, sex, full time work and mute button"

    3. Re:Wife 1.0 by denis-The-menace · · Score: 1

      sounds like we'll have to wait for v4.0 to get a built-in ATM machine, a-la-stepford-wife

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    4. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I found that v3.0 to be much better then the previous versions, the 3.0 version includes such a vast feature sets like "cooking, cleaning, sex, full time work and mute button"

      I'd love to upgrade; unfortunately, the hardware requirements are pretty stiff.

    5. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      about as well as troll .1

    6. Re:Wife 1.0 by sharkb8 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Unfortunately, when you install Girlfriend 1.0, there's always conflicts. Also, Wife 1.0 is always trying to download a beta version of iBaby, and the nag screens saying "Do you want to install iBaby?" keep popping up.

    7. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I found that v3.0 to be much better then the previous versions, the 3.0 version includes such a vast feature sets like "cooking, cleaning, sex, full time work and mute button"

      If you treated them like people, you wouldn't be on your third one, loser.

    8. Re:Wife 1.0 by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the quality control on Wife 1.0 manufacturing is very poor. You might get a model that works great for a long time, or you might get one that seems OK for a while but one day goes completely berzerk. Even with rigorous inspection before committing to it, a Wife 1.0 model can completely surprise you after months or years.

      Even worse, Wife 2.0, Wife 3.0, etc. are just as bad, if not worse, and are frequently used and damaged.

    9. Re:Wife 1.0 by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I had one of those, it was a pain in the ass. I finally got rid of it. maybe I'll get a different model one of these years.

    10. Re:Wife 1.0 by tsstahl · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pure vaporware.

    11. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You must be one of them gold digging versions.

    12. Re:Wife 1.0 by MrNaz · · Score: 2, Funny

      From what I hear, the hardware requirements for v1.0 are more flaccid than stuff.

      --
      I hate printers.
    13. Re:Wife 1.0 by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wife 1.0 is not supposed to be a pain in the ass. I think you're confusing that product with PrisonCellMate 1.0

      --
      I hate printers.
    14. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm on Wife 2.0, thinking of upgrading to Girlfriend 2.1, but that would eventually require the purchase of a Wife 3.0 license, while completely removing Wife 2.0 along with half of RRSP 2.0. The upgrades are easier though, without Kids 1.0 or Kids 2.0.

    15. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just dont allow wife 1.0 to connect. If connecting is a requirement, just use the secondary interface. It does not have as much bandwidth but wife 1.0 can not download any version of iBaby through it.

    16. Re:Wife 1.0 by BigDXLT · · Score: 1

      I read your comment thinking it was a reply to the AC's Mom 1.0 post! :O

    17. Re:Wife 1.0 by ewenix · · Score: 1
      Easy fix my friend, you just have to chroot Girlfriend 1.0.
      Just beware that you do this properly as this is very dangerous and can cause insufficient resource errors.
      Also if Wife 1.0 encounters any girlfriend 1.0 files, your GnuCash files will be deleted and then Wife 1.0 will uninstall, but not cleanly.

      Regarding the iBaby popup... Check carefully next time... there should be a "don't remind me again" checkbox.

      Remember to always keep your anti-virus and anti-spyware up to date.

    18. Re:Wife 1.0 by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

      I'm up to Wife 2.0 some bug fixes for sure but new random features were introduced. I should have waited for the next maint release. sigh.

    19. Re:Wife 1.0 by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Wife 1.0 continues to work quite well, thank you.

      As a happy user of Wife 1.0, I must say this system is not for everybody...

      The subscription plan is a bit pricey, imho

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    20. Re:Wife 1.0 by srussell · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unfortunately, when you install Girlfriend 1.0, there's always conflicts. Also, Wife 1.0

      You installed Girlfriend 1.0 after Wife 1.0? What, was Wife 1.0 mail-order? No wonder you have problems.

    21. Re:Wife 1.0 by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      You've got the open source choice wrong here, I think. The best option is quite proprietary - it's a Sony Playstation 3 peripheral made by MegaTokyo Inc.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    22. Re:Wife 1.0 by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Yeah in wife 1.0 the sex module seem to be the first to go. Thank god the Sit-On-Couch-and-eat-Bon-bons module costs more than I can afford right now.

    23. Re:Wife 1.0 by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      wow even wife 1.0 has fan boys!

    24. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me about it. Watch out for the Chinese knockoff Wife 3.0, really just a cheap repackaged Husband 2.0 with a few cosmetic changes. Somehow they got the big-endian Wife OS tweaked enough to run on Husband hardware, instead of using a true bi-endian processor.

    25. Re:Wife 1.0 by knuckledraegger · · Score: 1

      I had great experience with wife 1.0 for years and even had the add on pack children 3.0, but you know how you get those samples. Well I tried one called Mother-In-Law 1.0b and it was just horrible. No matter what I do, it keeps coming back.. I finally found if I go play golf, it helps.

    26. Re:Wife 1.0 by unfortunateson · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the other hand, the UI for the setup program for iBaby is a [u]lot[/ul] more fun than the iBaby app itself.
      Just click cancel before installation completes, or make sure that Wife 1.0 has a firewall.

      --
      Design for Use, not Construction!
    27. Re:Wife 1.0 by EchaniDrgn · · Score: 1

      There's a version after Mom 1.0?

    28. Re:Wife 1.0 by soundguy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, there's a stepmom fork - currently at 6.66

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
    29. Re:Wife 1.0 by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Any of the "hobby" plug-ins helps when dealing with some of Wife 1.0's "eccentricities":

      Fishing, Golfing, or in my case, Tabletop Roleplaying are all good ways to get some "away time"

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    30. Re:Wife 1.0 by soundguy · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that you went for the installed version of Girlfriend 1.0. Try Girlfriend-as-a-service instead. It can seem pricey at first (usually $100-$200 an hour) but there are no permanent resource allocations. There is a significant chance of virus infection though, so be sure to use LaTex with all access ports. Whatever you do, NEVER call customer service.

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
    31. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What about...

      > sudo threesome

    32. Re:Wife 1.0 by socceroos · · Score: 1

      Agh, that hack only worked with a fresh install of wife 1.0. Once it had downloaded the HoneymoonPeriodOver patch I could no longer gain access to the secondary interface. In fact, ever since that patch I've been categorically denied any kind of access to that interface.

    33. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way this stacked on my screen I thought that was a response to Mom 1.0! *cringe*

    34. Re:Wife 1.0 by socceroos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I tried all that stuff as suggested on the forums, but I found it was activating the Snob binaries in my copy of Wife 1.0. Haven't yet found a work-around. Even running WordsOfAffirmation 2.2 didn't fix it. =(

    35. Re:Wife 1.0 by Hack'n'Slash · · Score: 1

      I'm all for a nice, quick, stepmom fork!

    36. Re:Wife 1.0 by Skynyrd · · Score: 1

      Just click cancel before installation completes, or make sure that Wife 1.0 has a firewall.

      Under no circumstances should you trust the installation of a firewall to Wife (regardless of version number). Wife has complete control of the uninstall process, and can be completed without your knowledge.

    37. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under no circumstances should you trust the installation of a firewall to Wife (regardless of version number). Wife has complete control of the uninstall process, and can be completed without your knowledge.

      This deserves to be +6, Informative. Any of you guys who think "oh, it can't happen to me" - you're wrong. Under the right circumstances she CAN play that card (not will, but certainly can) and if she does you're stuck with the 18-year support contract.

    38. Re:Wife 1.0 by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Yep, cheaper overall unless you count that pesky emotional fulfilment clause. Also, I would use a firewall to prevent burning when IP.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    39. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Access is now denied because that patch plugged the hole that was its backdoor.

    40. Re:Wife 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, when you install Girlfriend 1.0, there's always conflicts. Also, Wife 1.0

      You installed Girlfriend 1.0 after Wife 1.0? What, was Wife 1.0 mail-order? No wonder you have problems.

      Even after an upgrade from Girlfriend x.0 to Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 tries to spawn child-processes. And to make things worse, if ever you should decide to uninstalled Wife 1.0, it will still requires system resourceafter being uninstalled!

    41. Re:Wife 1.0 by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Speaking of problems, I know someone who was planning to install iBaby 1.0 first, and convert his Acquaintance 0.1 to Wife 1.0 all without checking system requirements or even compatibility.

      All while his Acquaintance 0.1 was trying to abort the iBaby installation...

      --
    42. Re:Wife 1.0 by linux_0x740x750x78 · · Score: 1

      When trying to prevent iBaby from getting installed on Wife 1.0 you MUST take a layered security approach. 1. Install invisible filtering bridge in front of Wife 1.0's gateway. 2. Install Squid proxy on filtering bridge so you can track Wife 1.0's surfing habits. 3. Configure Wife 1.0's firewall to drop ALL PACKETS INCOMING, OUTGOING, AND FORWARDING! 4. Only allow Your IP address INCOMING access to machine running Wife 1.0. Dropping FORWARDING packets is important, otherwise iBaby might get installed on another machine.

    43. Re:Wife 1.0 by Lurker187 · · Score: 1

      Regarding the iBaby popup... Check carefully next time... there should be a "don't remind me again" checkbox..

      I tried that...I got an "invalid argument error" from Wife 1.0.

      --
      [command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
    44. Re:Wife 1.0 by cadience · · Score: 1

      Wife 1.0 is much less advanced than mom. 1.0 in terms of hose "automation". Wife 1.0 is alot like vista. Are you sure you want to do X, it's not really a good idea. ...or "you didn't DO Y" or "Do Z", but no mater what, wife 1.0 doesn't just take care of it...sigh.

    45. Re:Wife 1.0 by ewenix · · Score: 1

      Ahhh... Sounds like you missed an opt-out checkbox when you installed Wife 1.0.

  3. Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The reason that the field hasn't developed or matured is that the approach being taken for most products is wrong. There needs to be a domicile wireless standard that either uses the wifi or separate from it. They need key-based access control, so that your Android or iPhone or whatever can interface with them. New devices can be autodetected.

    The problem is that no one has taken the lead and made this happen. It can though. For example, cooking supper your toaster, oven, microwave, and stovetop could all supply timing and temperature information to the network, and you could make changes to each from your phone/console/ps3/etc.

    This isn't going to happen if every device has to have a driver for every other device. It won't happen if you have to add each device manually (ie, configure, not just adding your key). But it should instead be made a self-organizing system.

    1. Re:Doing it wrong by xgr3gx · · Score: 1

      Isn't there a protocol called Zigbee specifically created for home automation?

      --
      Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
    2. Re:Doing it wrong by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For example, cooking supper your toaster, oven, microwave, and stovetop could all supply timing and temperature information to the network, and you could make changes to each from your phone/console/ps3/etc.

      Never has a subject line been so accurate... Look, it's pretty obvious that you have NEVER cooked anything. If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN! Why in hell would you want to access your kitchen appliances from a telephone or a videogame?

      I want not only home automation, but my car, too. Why can't I call my car and tell it to start and run the heater or air? Why can't I look outside, see that it's starting to rain, and call my car and have it roll the windows up? For that matter why can't I roll up the windows without the key in the "run" position?

      No -- lights, heat, air, DVR, are fine for networked automation, but not the kitchen. Automation in the kitchen is using a mixer instead of a spoon. If you're cooking, you're in the kitchen. No need for remote stuff there.

    3. Re:Doing it wrong by wed128 · · Score: 1

      There is. It's sort of a simpler version of bluetooth. I haven't seen any devices that actually use it, besides research projects.

    4. Re:Doing it wrong by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Zigbee is not Free Software friendly. Licensing is GPL incompatible and requires payment.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigbee

    5. Re:Doing it wrong by Samalie · · Score: 1

      There is one (and only one) exception to this statement.

      You work...you want Roast Beast of some sort for supper. So you put said once-living-animal into your oven when you leave for work, and want to turn it on at X:xx so that you walk into your house to fully ready-to-eat dead animal flesh.

      Of course, you are increasing your chances to walk into the firey abyss that once was your house by doing so.

      (And not to mention, even my 92 year old grandmother's oven, circa 1950-something, has a timer which will turn on and off the oven per schedule).

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    6. Re:Doing it wrong by profplump · · Score: 1

      Because there's never any long-running process that I might want to monitor remotely -- it's obvious that anyone who cooks has nothing better to do than stand in the kitchen and watch their thermometers and timers until the food is ready; there's absolutely no use for a popup on your DVR that tells you when your roast hits the desired temperature, or when your 40 minute timer has expired.

    7. Re:Doing it wrong by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      There is one (and only one) exception to this statement.

      You work...you want Roast Beast of some sort for supper. So you put said once-living-animal into your oven when you leave for work, and want to turn it on at X:xx so that you walk into your house to fully ready-to-eat dead animal flesh.

      Don't forget your dinner which requires timing between elements. For example, if your sauce needs 12 minutes to cook, it can be started 12 minutes before your beast is finished. Alternatively, when you open the door early to check on it and the internal temperature indicates it will require additional cooking time, the stovetop automatically lowers temperature to increase cook time accordingly.

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    8. Re:Doing it wrong by pnewhook · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason that the field hasn't developed or matured is that the approach being taken for most products is wrong.

      Actually, the reason that the field hasn't developed or matured is that the approach is pointless.

      Right now, without having any self configured computer in my house:

      - my front and driveway lights turn on and off at dusk/dawn, automatically adjusting for sunrise and sunset (off the shelf gps timer)

      - my thermostat adjusts the heat and A/C appropriately according to a schedule I programmed in. I can access this from the web if needed to check usage and adjust the temperature and schedule as I see fit (smart thermostat for TOD power use)

      - my hi-def PVR records the shows I want whenever they happen to be on, even if they shift times. I can record at least three (haven't tried more) hi-def signals simultaneously (PVR that came with my cable)

      I have no reason to do more than the above. I see no reason to have these networked. I see no reason or benefit to me spending money and time to try and duplicate what is already easily possible using inexpensive off the shelf components from Home Depot. I see no point in having a server running in my house 24/7 wasting power.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    9. Re:Doing it wrong by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      You can, it's called Viper SmartStart. There's a free iPhone app but the service costs money.

    10. Re:Doing it wrong by Bodhammer · · Score: 1

      The WiFi Direct spec was just released. Hopefully it will address this exactly and get this off of Top Dead Center... http://www.wi-fi.org/news_articles.php?f=media_news&news_id=909

      --
      "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
    11. Re:Doing it wrong by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      Imagine low-power Bluetooth that can arrange into self-healing (for the most part) networks. Any kind of remote and distributed sensor network can benefit from this kind of protocol.

      Unfortunately, when I worked with it (2-3 years ago), it was a huge pain in the ass. There were only a few producers of the hardware, their development boards sucked (one revision has an error in silicon that caused the radio to prevent the thermometer from being used, which was the whole point of the dev board), and the protocol stacks were even worse. It's also not as versitile as they claim it is. There's a reason nobody uses it for anything practical.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    12. Re:Doing it wrong by hjf · · Score: 1

      what's the point of a GPS timer anyway? i mean photoelectric sensors have been around for decades and cost like $2

    13. Re:Doing it wrong by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      it's obvious that anyone who cooks has nothing better to do than stand in the kitchen and watch their thermometers and timers until the food is ready;

      Trivially done with a $15 remote thermometer. I have one for my grill. Works great. Time, temp, 'doneness' of meat. And the timer? My oven (and I expect yours) dings evey minute or two when the timer goes off. I don't want to HAVE to have the DVR on, just to let me know the oven is done.

    14. Re:Doing it wrong by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I thought that was the idea behind Zigbee, the low cost, low power, mesh networking standard. Not to mention, there is a home powerline networking standard, HomePlug alliance, that has been out for quite awhile. Unfortunately, neither of them is popular enough to get the economies of scale. (now if that fancy little linux powered wall wart http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/kirkwood/plugcomputer.jsp would support either of the other two standards, we might be able to do some very, very cool stuff!)

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    15. Re:Doing it wrong by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      That's what I use. No timing or adjustments required and they are uber cheap.

    16. Re:Doing it wrong by optimus2861 · · Score: 1

      You work...you want Roast Beast of some sort for supper. So you put said once-living-animal into your oven when you leave for work, and want to turn it on at X:xx so that you walk into your house to fully ready-to-eat dead animal flesh.

      Or you could make life a lot easier on yourself and just buy a slow cooker. Turn it on in the morning when you leave for work, and the beef is ready to eat when you come home. You can even be late getting home and the beef won't be ruined.

    17. Re:Doing it wrong by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

      A number of cars do allow remote start with the heat or A/C coming on as needed. My caddi has it and I know other brands do too. I think there are aftermarket devices as well. Its a nice feature when its way hot/cold. I'm not sure I see the point of calling the car. The remote has been good enough for me.

    18. Re:Doing it wrong by babyrat · · Score: 1

      Trivially done with a $15 remote thermometer. I have one for my grill. Works great.

      So you are saying there IS a need for remote notification of this sort. My TV can be loud (I expect yours can be too). I can be forgetful (perhaps you have at some point got distracted by something also). Therefore if the TV were loud, and I got distracted, I might not hear the ding and I might also have forgotten that the 40 minute timer should have expired by now.

      I think that a popup on my TV (or computer, or my cell phone vibrating or all three) would be a great reminder in addition to the ding of the oven timer.

      I wouldn't NEED to have my DVR on, but if it were on, it could display a small message indicating that the oven timer (or whatever other event) went off.

       

    19. Re:Doing it wrong by babyrat · · Score: 1

      Right now, without having any self configured computer in my house:

      It sounds to me like you have at least 3 computers in your house. The one that controls the thermostat, the one that controls the driveway lights and the PVR.

      I can access this from the web if needed to check usage and adjust the temperature... I see no reason to have these networked

      Apparently you see at least one need to have those networked...

    20. Re:Doing it wrong by jovetoo · · Score: 1
      If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN! Why in hell would you want to access your kitchen appliances from a telephone or a videogame?

      So you can cook WITHOUT being in the damned kitchen? I would love to have a gkrell like app monitoring the temperature and humidity in my pots, maybe include some video.

      It would have saved me a shitload of broken nails trying to get the burned black bits out of my cooking pots...

    21. Re:Doing it wrong by uiucgrad · · Score: 1

      I think I remember Jini being touted for this kind of stuff as well. Not much mention of it on the Wikipedia page though.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jini
      https://home-automation.dev.java.net/

    22. Re:Doing it wrong by surfingmarmot · · Score: 1

      "No need for remote stuff there." To you maybe because you don't do much more than microwave or stir fry. But long cooking techniques would indeed benefit. I have a remote thermometer on my smoker and my BBQ for reason--to monitor internal meat temperatures remotely for long cooking and smoking so I don't have to stand out there in the weather. that would be nice in the kitchen too for roasting, baking, etc. I coudl heck the time remaining without having to go into the kitchen to see the timer says 1 hour 23 minutes left and then checking the thermometer--it would be very to cool to check both from my iPhone and maybe raise/lower the oven temp som number of degrees if I wanted to. How about an intelligent oven that sent me an estimate when the roast was 20 minutes away from being done so I could start the short courses? You just lack imagination me thinks

    23. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also Z-Wave.

    24. Re:Doing it wrong by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Now this post was funny up until I realized that it wasn't about the "wife 1.0" jokes anymore.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    25. Re:Doing it wrong by markov23 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Zigbee is out and in the field with a couple of companies. One of my companies is a home automation company and we program and install products from Control4 and AMX -- both have support for zigbee. AMX with their remotes and control4 with pretty much their whole product line. The spec creates a mesh network where all of the devices act as repeaters -- which makes it much more than just a blutooth competitor. Case in point -- my house has 50 zigbee controllable lights in it -- and no dedicated repeaters. Since the lights are all decently close to each other -- the network size just scales. There are starting to be more products that have native support for zigbee -- theres someone selling remote locks that communicate their status as well as being controllable from other user interfaces -- think open your door with your iphone -- not your keys -- not sure thats useful -- but it can be done. Not to be confused with open source -- the control4 platform is linux based. As far as I can tell they only run it on their own hardware -- but when there are problems you can still telnet in and see whats going on.

    26. Re:Doing it wrong by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

      Why can't I call my car and tell it to start and run the heater or air?

      You obviously don't live in Canada.

      Everyone does that here.

    27. Re:Doing it wrong by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Why can't I call my car and tell it to start and run the heater or air?

      Because you didn't get the remote start package for your car? Mine does it just fine, just push the button on the key fob while drinking my morning Mt Dew. (Or coffee for you masochists.)

      Why can't I look outside, see that it's starting to rain, and call my car and have it roll the windows up?

      Proper automation would alert you and if no response, roll them up on its own.

      For that matter why can't I roll up the windows without the key in the "run" position?

      I can, until I get out, in which case having a way to roll the windows down without the key in would make one hell of an easy way to get into the car. No need to slimjim the door, just get a cloths hanger, push the button on the power windows now just reach in and open the door. Perhaps you bought the wrong car/package.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    28. Re:Doing it wrong by markov23 · · Score: 2, Informative

      its not pointless -- its just not for you. We put these systems in lots of houses and when they are done right they make complicated systems very simple to use. Most of our projects have 8-16 rooms with digital music, video networks that can put any source on any TV and simple remote controls that make the whole thing work. It aint cheap, but done correctly you can make these systems work for competing viewpoints of husbands and wives. Typically husbands love tech -- dont mind seeing a stack of equipment in a room and see it as a normal part of everyday life that they need 3 remotes to watch a movie. Wives want to see the stuff disappear -- which is why you put speakers in the ceiling and have touchpads control music instead of having a stereo stack in each room you might want to listen to music in. These systems also let you have a nice clean look in media rooms. Most of our projects we put every piece of equipment in a server rack and control it all via RF remotes. This lets you just put a TV over the fireplace -- or just have a plasma and in wall speakers in the family room without having to cram a bunch of stuff into a piece of furniture you didnt want in the room. This is not for everybody -- but to our customers ease of use and aesthetics are important and they are willing to pay for them. Now there is a DIY crowd out there trying to use home depot quality stuff and x-10 tech. If this is all you look at, you will think the field hasnt moved in decades. The enthusiast market is filled with incomplete solutions and hacker tech. It may be fun to play with, but it aint wife friendly and it wont be reliable. This group tends to get overly focused on the cost of the gear and has very high expectations of performance ( this is from my viewpoint as a professional in the space ) As a company weve stayed away from projects where people want to use x-10 level of gear. Lastly -- and way off topic -- but there is some chatter about wifi growing up to handle these tasks. I'd put that at not likely with the current state of that spec. Its fine for laptops roaming around the house, but its too unreliable for home automation where it needs to work 100% of the time. We try to have anything that needs that kind of connectivity have a dedicated ethernet or we never really trust it. Its not all wifi's fault -- the embedded device code for wifi that is in most touch panels and equipment in the automation space has no clue how to handle a multi channel wifi network where it might roam -- this makes it pretty bad for what most people expect of it.

    29. Re:Doing it wrong by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you are saying there IS a need for remote notification of this sort.

      Yes. But integration into the whole house thing is counter productive.
      The remote meat thermo does one thing, and does it well. I have the remote sitting on my desk. When cooking (on the grill or in the oven) I can see instantly what the internal temp is. Don't have to interrupt the movie (even with a popup/overlay), don't have to fish around in the iPhone (that I don't have)...don't have to do anything but glance at the remote readout. Oh, and I can do this literally anywhere in or out of the house. On the can, or on the deck...still have the remote with me.

      Could this be integrated into a HA setup. See no reason why not. I'm sure I could get the RF to port to the PC, and then feed into the TiVo or all the screens in the house (because I may be anywhere). Except that it would be much harder to use and more expensive.

      For $15 at wallyworld, it does one thing and does it well. For $35 at Amazon, I can get a dual probe monitor, to handle two different cuts or cooking levels.

      The ease of use trumps, by far, fiddling around with a full PC based automation setup.

      same with outside lights, etc. I have 3 motion sensor lights. Set up once, forget it. It turns on when someone comes up the drive. I don't have to set it when I leave work, or do anything. They turn off after a few minutes, only turns on at night...for a trivial amount of $$.

      Unless you like tinkering for tinkerings' sake, individual components are far cheaper and easier.

    30. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about that... I like my coffee ready when I wake up in the morning. It's automation, even if it's not on the network.

    31. Re:Doing it wrong by jeffstar · · Score: 1

      i'm looking at smart meters that use zigbee modules from digi:
      http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/zigbee-mesh/xbee-zb-module.jsp

      I won't be dealing with the hardware, just talking to the devices on the zigbee network so hopefully the whole thing is invisible to me.

      I'm going to have range issues though

    32. Re:Doing it wrong by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      what's the point of a GPS timer anyway? i mean photoelectric sensors have been around for decades and cost like $2

      I do have those on other lights. For the front lights with this switch I can do thinks like 'on at sunset, off at midnight, and on at 5am off at sunrise'. Can't do that with just a photoelectic.

      Also I misspoke- its not a GPS, I just enter lat and long, set the date and it figures out the actual sunrise and sunset.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    33. Re:Doing it wrong by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      It sounds to me like you have at least 3 computers in your house. The one that controls the thermostat, the one that controls the driveway lights and the PVR.

      Well yes they are all computers, just nothing I have to setup and maintain. My car has several computers in it too but I dont count those either.

      Apparently you see at least one need to have those networked...

      Again, nothing I had to setup, configure or worry about in any way.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    34. Re:Doing it wrong by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Good point, however I dont believe the original topic was referring to ultra high end house networks.

      And my configuration isn't x-10 based.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    35. Re:Doing it wrong by hjf · · Score: 1

      oh, I get it now, i thought GPS was pretty overkill for this app. the good thing about it is that you don't need the external sensor and wiring. that's a big bonus. I was thinking of doing it with a microcontroller... guess someone beat me to it :D

      anyway, I use a photoelectric in series with a timer (like $10 and with a nice LCD display, time, DST, etc). 16 programs (8 on, 8 off).

      got a pretty complicated setup: ON every day at 5PM for the window lights, off at 0:30 mon-fri, off at 2AM sat-sun (so friday and saturday nights, when people go out, my window display is on).

      another timer for the outside lights, mon-sat on at 5PM, off at 8:30PM. (my shop, a comic book shop, mind you, is open till 8:30 PM)

      so all lights are on at 5PM but they actually turn on when the photoelectric allows them.

      lol, all that high tech for just 2 35W halogens and 2 70W metal halides... I think the timers would pay for themselves in like 10 years. if they do last that long.

    36. Re:Doing it wrong by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      lights, heat, air, DVR, are fine for networked automation

      I'm skeptic. I do want heat automated, but then there is no computer control needed. I do not want air ("zoning") because I am confident the advantages are far less than disadvantages. One actuator stops working? Huge PITA. Some SW/HW component misbehaves and one room is OK except randomly not? PITA, again. It must work tens of years without a glitch. We are not there - unless you pay extraordinary amount of money but then it is usually cheaper to forget about it.

      Then there are other problems. Think about sauna, when jogging it would be nice to turn it on by phone. But if some idiot put something to dry there - chance of a fire. I would not do that mistake, but I do not trust the average joe not to do it. Same with the kitchen you mentioned.

    37. Re:Doing it wrong by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 1

      > If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN!

      Hey, that's true for now. But as home automation grows more and more popular, let's say somebody decides to build a FSU (food storage unit)-to-Cooking Unit interface with an open communication standard. Pretty soon you've got trucks rolling down your street every week, dropping off FSUs left and right. Sure, your menu will be generally pre-determined, but your grocery bill just got a LOT cheaper. Or if cheap isn't important, you can now eat like a king if you order premium FSUs.

      And then there's the reduced need for multitasking...you subscribe to a gourmet menu selection by your favorite chef, and you just walk to the Cooking Unit at mealtime and pick up your food, eat.

      Sure, there will always be people who love to cook by hand, the old way...just like there will always be people who read paper books, play old-style board games, etc.

      The new & improved Mayan calendar gives us just enough time to accomplish all this, too... :-)

    38. Re:Doing it wrong by thynk · · Score: 1

      I think you're aiming too low. Ideally, one would simply punch in, state or otherwise interface with the menu selections and the automated kitchen would do the rest. Remove the Beast from the freezer, order missing ingredients for the sauce, prepare to your instructions (or pre-coded recipes from the net). Serve it for you, box up left overs for later disposal and do the dishes. Now THATS home automation. Oh, and it should bring you coffee in bed and wake you with the gentle aroma of a perfect roast instead of having an annoying alarm clock.

      Or, you could get married, but this is /. after all, and the odds of someone coming up with this solution are far greater than the majority of us getting married to a woman who would do all this for you on a regular basis.

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
    39. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, it's pretty obvious that you have NEVER cooked anything. If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN! Why in hell would you want to access your kitchen appliances from a telephone or a videogame?

      It's pretty obvious you've got a limited imagination. If you're heating some bread (toaster oven), some vegetables or rice or such (microwave or stove), and broiling or baking (oven) at the same time, you want to be able to coordinate the timers on them, and check their temperatures (especially if pre-heating the oven, etc.) to make stuff come out at the same time. Or if you're sitting down eating for a formal meal (eg, Thanksgiving) and want coffee and desert after, you can wait and start the coffee toward the end of the meal from your phone, or microwave the chocolate sauce for the dessert.

      I'm the AC that posted, and I really didn't think this needed explanation, but judging from the multitude of replies to you I was wrong. There are plenty of other coordination uses too: updating grocery lists, checking expirations against recipes... the possibilities are pretty limitless.

    40. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > For that matter why can't I roll up the windows without the key in the "run" position?

      Wrong car or wrong country. In Europe, holding down the lock button on the fob will close the windows and sunroof on all but the cheapest cars. Likewise, holding the unlock button will roll down the windows and open the sunroof.

    41. Re:Doing it wrong by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      Wrong approach? More fundamental than that. Too many devices are overly complicated for what they do, and fail in embarrassing ways. And no, they don't need security theater.

      Had this Leviton system for turning appliances and lights on and off at the times you programmed into the master clock. Imagine standing there and holding down on the "fast" button to set a clock over and over, 2 or more times for each light controlled. I don't know how well it would have worked, because the day after I set it all up, a power failure wiped its memory. And when the power came back, it didn't reset to a zero state, instead it started turning lights on and off at whatever random times ended up in its memory. Then there were these electronic thermostats. Same problem. When the power fails, the hour you spent programming it is lost.

      Setting the clocks on all these devices after every power glitch is a pain, and anymore, nearly all of them have clocks. For VCRs and TVs have to wait 10 minutes for a rescan of channels, and tell them what time it is, again. As cheap as flash memory is these days, I'm wondering what is the problem with these consumer electronics manufacturers that they can't put a little in so a power interruption doesn't lose everything, and so that these damn devices can actually be turned off and not be left plugged in and sipping power 24/7.

      Complexity is another problem. Manufacturers focus on bells and whistles. They need excuses to charge higher prices. They try for too much, and end up doing nothing well. They missed the UNIX philosophy: lots of little simple tools that do one thing, and do it well. I don't want to have to read several dozen manuals to figure out how to make these devices do what I want. I much prefer being able to figure it out by trial and error, and if I can't, then the device isn't intuitive enough. Current home theater setups are a horrible mess. A different remote control for each device. Half of them have to be reconfigured every time for whatever new use is wanted. Doing a switch from TV to a game console, have to rotate through the TV's inputs until the correct one is reached. Sometimes it doesn't negotiate the connection (HDMI seems to be like that), so have to cycle through again. Same drill with the surround sound system, then must adjust the volume, etc.

      Then there's the hook. A security company tried to sell me a system that had this keypad, and all I had to do when I came home was enter in the combination. I asked why? Why not have just a toggle switch hidden somewhere instead of a keypad prominently displayed? You know most people will write the combination down and post it nearby. For that matter, why even have a switch? The hook was this monthly fee to have the devices monitored. Yes, if that combination wasn't entered within 1 minute, the system would alert the business doing the monitoring. Well, why couldn't my cellphone be called up instead? No reason at all, except there'd go their monthly revenue stream.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    42. Re:Doing it wrong by wpiman · · Score: 1
      The product I use is called Homeseer (in OP) and it does much of what you say. It uses a 900 Mhz wireless protocol mesh network called Zwave which communicates to various devices. It is supported by multiple manufacturers. I have light switches, thermostats, motion sensor, light sensors, temp sensors, appliance modules, door locks, and door sensors that all run Zwave. Big names like Trane and Schlage support it. In addition there are other sensors (water sensors, humidity sensors) you can get. Zigbee sort of hasn't caught much traction. You can buy zwave products at lowes.

      It runs on Windows; which some say is a minus-- but doesn't bother me.

      There is a slick iphone interface cause HSTouch which allows you to create your own screens for control (works on Windows/Linux/CE and Mac too I believe).

      When I get home- I pull out my iPhone and unlock my doors; turn on the light and the heat.

      Zwave is still growing; and I imagine integration into these products is forthcoming. The beauty of zwave over wifi is that it comes little power; so battery operated devices are plausible. Throughput it 9600 -> 40 kbps.

      To add devices; I just bring my zwave usb stick to a device; click a button on each; and it adds. The network self optimizes.

      Again; long way to go but the community is pretty strong.

    43. Re:Doing it wrong by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      See, I hear what you're saying - but I'm not convinced, and I'm a prime candidate for wanting to spend money on overcomplicating my life with expensive gadgets.
      In your example, you've only got so many hob rings, so many ovens. If you're going to pre-prep all your veg and leave it sitting there in cold pans of water, and you have enough appliances and pots/pans to accomodate these - then sure, have an automator turn them on and off so they all are done at the same time.
      I don't think this suits most people though. First off, programming the logic for each meal isn't trivial. It doesn't fit people's kitchens. Also, it reduces cooking to the level of reheating microwave meals - no interaction to tweak the recipe, the seasoning, etc. Finally, if you're going to prep all your ingredients ahead of time (which I regularlyl do prior to Sunday dinner withthe family) then the actual scheduling of turning on/off hob rings etc really is the minor part of the job. Add to this the engineering required to make sure that you can't boil pans dry and ruin stuff, or grill things until they catch fire, and you've got a complicated and expensive proposition with uncertain value.

      If you end up with a product that appeals to geeks who are willing to rework their entire kitchen, but don't like cooking, then maybe this is a goer. I don't think the market is all that big, though.
      Whenever I've looked into HA, I've concluded "it's cool, but what would I *use* it for?". Heating? My condenser boiler with wireless controller does just fine - I programmed it once to reflect when we tend to be in the house, and it just works. Open blinds and curtains? Well, maybe. What I'd *really* like is central locking for the house - a button on a keyfob that closed and locked all windows and doors, and turned the alarm on. Awful lot of expenditure on actuators etc to get that working, though.
      For most normal-sized houses I still think HA is a solution looking for a problem.

    44. Re:Doing it wrong by ElAurian · · Score: 1

      I cook all the time, and I can think of several ways in which I could use an automated kitchen system like the one that the parent describes:

      - Download recipes made for the system from the net, my phone/pda tells me what to put in when;

      - Visual indicators of when everything's going to be ready, and more importantly, the status of the various dishes I have cooking;

      - Teaching someone anywhere in the world how to cook, by monitoring what they're doing in real-time so I can give them instant feedback and advice.

      These are just the "radio with pictures" ideas anyone can come up with; in actual use, these systems will spawn new and awesome ways of living that we cannot yet imagine.

    45. Re:Doing it wrong by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I see the point of calling the car. The remote has been good enough for me.

      I've thought of putting one of those aftermarket kits on my car, but what I'd like is to get rid of the remote entirely. It would be nice to not have to carry a key ring. You could have a speed dial for the car, and you would have a lot of buttons for a lot of functions. If I got an aftermarket starter remote, then I'd have to carry TWO remotes. I'd like to carry no remotes yet still have remote control capabilities.

    46. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea isn't to automate every little thing. But having the ability to communicate between devices and to a generalized interface makes sense. Where it does make sense, things can be somewhat automated to completely automated.

      If every component of the home (of buildings generally) had a measure of this kind of technology to it, the possibilities increase quite a bit. If power outlets have it, you can check power use, see what's connected where. If faucets have it, you can pre-load hot water to a given tap or check the tap's temperature.

      If you are staying in a hotel room, or if you're house sitting for someone that's granted you access (eg, your parents or siblings or friends) it can help you find things (including RFID-like capabilities so you don't forget your shoes under the bed).

      It's less about automation (though that is a component) and more about environment awareness. Both letting you be aware of the environment and letting devices/appliances, where reasonable, be aware of one another.

    47. Re:Doing it wrong by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Open blinds and curtains? Well, maybe.

      It would be nice to have them close when it's hot outside and the sun's on them, or open when its cold outside and the sun's on them, and close when the sun goes down. I was't speaking against home automation in general, just the retarded "control your microwave from your iPhone" nonsense.

      What I'd *really* like is central locking for the house

      Me, too. I love being able to lock all the car doors with one button. I'd also like to unlock the house without a key or other device, but I can't figure out how you could do that without making it easy to break in (it's already too easy).

    48. Re:Doing it wrong by pbhj · · Score: 1

      Look, it's pretty obvious that you have NEVER cooked anything. If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN!

      Cookers have had simple timers for a long time. Sometimes when you've set the timer to cook the food and you're out of the house you get delayed ... why not login to the home network and bump back the cooking start-time a little so it's still hot when you get in?

    49. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why in hell would you want to access your kitchen appliances from a telephone or a videogame?

      While I'll agree that many appliances don't need connectivity, I'm still dreaming of a RFID enabled pantry/refrigerator/freezer. No more looking to find out what we have, if something is past the expiration date, or even how long those leftovers have been in there.

      Mr. Pantry logs it all and can even tell you if it is behind the milk.

    50. Re:Doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason that the field hasn't developed or matured is that the approach being taken for most products is wrong. There needs to be a domicile wireless standard that either uses the wifi or separate from it. They need key-based access control, so that your Android or iPhone or whatever can interface with them. New devices can be autodetected.

      The problem is that no one has taken the lead and made this happen. It can though. For example, cooking supper your toaster, oven, microwave, and stovetop could all supply timing and temperature information to the network, and you could make changes to each from your phone/console/ps3/etc.

      This isn't going to happen if every device has to have a driver for every other device. It won't happen if you have to add each device manually (ie, configure, not just adding your key). But it should instead be made a self-organizing system.

      There is actually a proposal for exactly what you want: Devices Profile for Web Services (DPWS). Anyone could use it.

      From the page:

      Plug & Play for Ethernet

      DPWS delivers true plug-n-play functionality in an Ethernet device-connected environment. The vision is of disparate devices made by a variety of vendors communicating seamlessly over a network in which new devices are automatically discovered and made available to applications for use.

      For example, DPWS-enabled networked peripherals such as printers or scanners can be detected and put into service by remote users as soon as they are added to the network. With DPWS, the same discovery and configuration process that PC users have embraced when adding a peripheral device locally via USB is now available over a network.

      For this reason, many refer to DPWS as "USB for Ethernet." It provides an important and simple new extension of device functionality into the networked environment. What's more, the vast majority of today's existing IT professionals already possess Microsoft-based networking experience to allow them to quickly and easily implement and administer a DPWS solution on their networks.

      Granted, it's targeted at Windows, but since it's a web service surely a smart Linux/Open Source programmer could write equivalent software.

    51. Re:Doing it wrong by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It makes sense for a smoker, but most of us don't even have a smoker. For any kind of kitchen cooking, though, it doesn't make sense.

      If we were talking real automation, like having a robot do the whole thing for you, that would make sense. But I find when I cook I put the meat on the stove or in the oven, then cook the veggies in the microwave and sometimes stovetop. There isn't any "sitting around and waiting".

    52. Re:Doing it wrong by 2obvious4u · · Score: 1

      Never has a subject line been so accurate... Look, it's pretty obvious that you have NEVER cooked anything. If you're cooking YOU'RE IN THE DAMNED KITCHEN! Why in hell would you want to access your kitchen appliances from a telephone or a videogame?

      Look its pretty obvious that you've never cooked anything that has to sit in the oven or on the stove for longer than 20 min. You do the prep work, set the food in the oven, and then clean the mess. Then you go sit down at your x-box or ps3 and start playing a game. Next thing you know you totally forgot the timer and your food burned. Wouldn't it be nice if the oven timer notified you in game so you didn't burn your food. Or even paused the game automatically for you to go check the food.

      I almost burned down the kitchen one time trying to make boiled p-nuts. I got engrossed in a game of Age of Empires and burned a hole in the bottom of the pan. Some kitchen automation is very useful.

      Then there is the refrigerator. This is probably the most useful kitchen appliance to have on the network. You could scan bar codes of your condiments or even have webcams in the fridge to check and see what you have available. You could even store expiration dates of the food in the fridge and it could warn you when food expires. It could even suggest recipes for what you have available. So before you leave the office to go home you could look up what you need to pick up for supper that night.

      Then there is slow cooking! You could set up a crock pot or dutch oven in the oven before you leave for work, then you could set it to start at some later time. Then you get held up in traffic and set the oven to warm instead of low, medium or high. Or even turn it up if you know you're going to be early.

      Just saying, kitchen automation isn't useless.

    53. Re:Doing it wrong by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      No. The reason the field hasn't advanced is because home automation isn't something computers are good at.

      Computers are good at doing the same thing over and over again. When you get into areas where there are a lot of one-off tasks, computers do more to get in the way than to help because of the necessary configuration and setup time.

      The way to make computers helpful in home automation is to become a robot and do everything in exactly the same way every day. Even then your automation will be customized for your, and will be mostly useless for your neighbor. Each house will require it's own set of customization, and woe be to the homeowner that decides he wants to change up his schedule or try something different.

      The typical enduser will by a programmable thermostat, program it once, and then constantly override it with manual operation. When we can force people to act like robots and live in identical houses, then we will see home automation advance.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  4. Links? by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A few links might have helped. I haven't heard of "Misterhouse" or any of the other stuff you mentioned. Don't assume lack of ignorance on anybody's part -- everybody is ignorant about something.

    1. Re:Links? by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't twitter. Any tinyurl domain is assumed to go to goatse or worse.

    2. Re:Links? by endianx · · Score: 1

      WORSE?!?!

    3. Re:Links? by Deth_Master · · Score: 1

      Too bad the original goatse is gone. Oh the fun times.

      --
      find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown :us
    4. Re:Links? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Those question marks signal that you're curious to know. Have you not learned your lesson man!?!

    5. Re:Links? by wed128 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Worse. Links that will unravel your very soul.

    6. Re:Links? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google much?

    7. Re:Links? by selven · · Score: 1

      So you mean links to Twitter itself?

    8. Re:Links? by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Yes. Worse.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    9. Re:Links? by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Cruise around stileproject for a while, you'll see pictures that you can't unsee, and get a virus! It's multitasking!

    10. Re:Links? by bazorg · · Score: 1

      yo momma is so ugly she makes goatse look good!

    11. Re:Links? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He already mentioned goatse.

    12. Re:Links? by vikstar · · Score: 1

      Much worse.

      --
      The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
  5. Good luck by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm an open source fan personally, so I'd do Misterhouse. My father had a setup a few years back that he home-built with a linux distro that was made for a little headless machine that he stuck in the basement. He got really complex with it and did all the programming himself in Assembly (he's a masochist) instead of making use of the built-in tools. He wanted to do it HIS way. It worked great though. My dad's HA setup was dialed into all of the lighting and thermostat controls for the house and it did some cool stuff. He had a temperature probe on the outside of the house, and the system would decide (based on outside temperature, time of day, and whether anyone was in the house) whether or not to run the A/C to keep the house cool, but first it would spin up all the ceiling fans.

    In reference to the "serious flaws" and weaknesses...ever wondered why none of the home automation tech we've been promised since 1950 has come to be common in homes? Things like auto-opening drapes, autoadjusting lighting, stuff like that. Ever wished someone would just sell something like that? The reason we don't have all of this cool stuff is that there is a company (can't remember the name off the top of my head) that holds a bunch of over-broad patents on most of what we think of as "duh" innovations in home automation. They don't license or sell their tech. They just sue people who try to make stuff.

    --
    This space for rent...
    1. Re:Good luck by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're describing Crestron since all the functionality you mention you can find in a Crestron home or office. The owner of the company I work for is all about it even though it's overpriced crap. I think you're right about why it hasn't taken off though, that licensing has kept it all prohibitively expensive but more importantly if the power goes out living in your house is miserable and the robotics break a lot. When the quality and logistics get worked out better you'll find it in more homes.

    2. Re:Good luck by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Informative

      1-Wire is awesome. I'm currently using it in my house. While it doesn't do everything, there are quite a few modules for different things.

      Those are just the pre-built options. Maxim has quite a few chips that do different things. People have also used things in very creative ways. The wind direction gauge is just a position feedback sensor on a mechanical device to point towards the wind.

      And no 1-wire home setup would be complete without OWFS (One Wire File System). Works quite a bit like /proc. You can query your temp sensors with 'cat' and turn on relays with 'echo'. Also has libs for php, perl and other languages so you can use scripts. Caching so you don't hammer the bus.

      Since I installed my HVAC controller before the temp sensors (Open Loop!) I went with a super4 relay board. They have linux code, but uses the proprietary FTDI drivers, I used libftdi and write my own. I wired it up in parallel to my thermostat, which I set to 50F. When I was driving home I'd kick it on and when I got home I'd kick it off. If I was hot, I turned it off. Etc. Also kicked on (via cron) at 7 am. (I grew up in an old farm house, so 60F ambient is fine for my single life).

      I also have it on the 'web' checking an e-mail address that I can text from my phone. "heat" kicks things on "off" kicks things off. Nothing fancy yet.

    3. Re:Good luck by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      t there is a company (can't remember the name off the top of my head) that holds a bunch of over-broad patents on most of what we think of as "duh" innovations in home automation. They don't license or sell their tech. They just sue people who try to make stuff.

      [citation needed]

    4. Re:Good luck by joib · · Score: 1

      My father also made a temperature controller for his house, controlling the hot/cold mixer before the water is pumped through the radiators. Inputs were inside temp, outside temp, and boiler temp. But this was all done with analog electronics, recycled from all kinds of crap that fills up his garage.

      Personally, I'd have done it with an AVR or maybe even a small embedded Linux system (a suitable excuse to tinker, if nothing else). But hey, it works, so who am I to complain. Took a lot of tweaking before it worked properly though.

    5. Re:Good luck by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Things like auto-opening drapes, autoadjusting lighting, stuff like that. Ever wished someone would just sell something like that?

      I can't speak with any authority on your other topics, but the auto-adjusting lights, at least, will be in your friendly local hardware store within 2 years (or I'll be out of a job.) The question is: will you want to pay for it? Contemporary LED lighting (my field) is moving strongly into ambient light detection and (semi) intelligent lighting, and there are bulbs going on the market right now that even offer closed-loop color quality correction, so they not only turn on and off based on room lighting, but guarantee a lighting color throughout their lifetimes by using multiple colored LED's that vary based on measurement. (They're weird to work with because the color output from the bulb changes drastically if you hold a white sheet of paper up to the light, as compared to a piece of dark fabric, although the reflected color looks just about the same... which is the whole point.)

      However, they cost about 10x what current lightbulbs cost, and it's an open question whether customers are going to actually spend more money for their lights. As brought up elsewhere in this thread, it's not that home automation is expensive per se, but that in order to apply it throughout a house, you could be changing 50-200 fixtures, outlets, and bulbs, and then it becomes cripplingly expensive.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    6. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the projects I have installed are not in manufacturing plants, so I haven't seen too many "robotics" other than motorized drapes or gates. Other than having to manually open/close those, I don't see how a power outage would be any less miserable in a non-automated house.

      That said, if installed and programmed by knowledgeable people, Crestron is the most bullet-proof system I have seen for automating anything - the hardware is great. The big differentiator is the design and programming of the system; just like anyone here can write a terrible and buggy Java app, so can you write a terrible and buggy Crestron program.

    7. Re:Good luck by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      In reference to the "serious flaws" and weaknesses...ever wondered why none of the home automation tech we've been promised since 1950 has come to be common in homes?

      The answer is simple: it's because houses are not consumer products, like computers, TVs, or cars. If you want to make a car with a lot of complex controls, it's easy; lots of higher-end cars have sophisticated in-vehicle data buses and controllers for everything. It's easy because cars are sold as a complete product, made in a factory on an assembly line by a single company. That company designs everything into that model it wants, tests it, manufactures it, and ships it.

      Houses are different. Except for widely-derided manufactured homes, houses are built on-site. Unlike cars, they're not designed by engineers, but rather by "builders", who are just people with high school educations at best who worked their way up from hammering nails for a living. They're made by a bunch of skilled trades people, organized by this "builder", and made with the same techniques that houses have been built with for decades, with little change. Adding ethernet wiring is a serious problem for many of them since they don't understand it.

      Some houses are different; they're designed by architects, and cost millions of dollars and are built by rich people. Bill Gates has a pretty serious home automation system I've heard. But regular houses owned by middle-class people don't have this. And worse, most houses aren't purchased new, they're sold over and over again, since they easily last many decades. Just like retrofitting airbags onto a 50s car is impractical, retrofitting HA stuff into an older house isn't easy either.

    8. Re:Good luck by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      As brought up elsewhere in this thread, it's not that home automation is expensive per se, but that in order to apply it throughout a house, you could be changing 50-200 fixtures, outlets, and bulbs, and then it becomes cripplingly expensive.

      Yep. If this stuff were designed and built into the house when it was constructed, it wouldn't have been a major cost, but retrofitting stuff is usually expensive (unless your labor is free). Since houses are not usually trashed after 10 years and new ones built, and most people don't live in brand-new houses, home automation really hasn't taken off.

    9. Re:Good luck by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      The owner of the company I work for uses it to raise and drop his tv from the floor, gate control, then of course drapes and PTZ manuevering.

      Really sucks if you have a power outage and you can't open your drapes or your gate. Of course the gate at least has a manual release.

      You're right about Creston programming though. Seem to be more bad programmers than good ones, much like the rest of the development world.

    10. Re:Good luck by captainryan1 · · Score: 1

      I'm an open source fan personally, so I'd do Misterhouse. My father had a setup a few years back that he home-built with a linux distro that was made for a little headless machine that he stuck in the basement. He got really complex with it and did all the programming himself in Assembly (he's a masochist) instead of making use of the built-in tools. He wanted to do it HIS way. It worked great though. My dad's HA setup was dialed into all of the lighting and thermostat controls for the house and it did some cool stuff. He had a temperature probe on the outside of the house, and the system would decide (based on outside temperature, time of day, and whether anyone was in the house) whether or not to run the A/C to keep the house cool, but first it would spin up all the ceiling fans. In reference to the "serious flaws" and weaknesses...ever wondered why none of the home automation tech we've been promised since 1950 has come to be common in homes? Things like auto-opening drapes, autoadjusting lighting, stuff like that. Ever wished someone would just sell something like that? The reason we don't have all of this cool stuff is that there is a company (can't remember the name off the top of my head) that holds a bunch of over-broad patents on most of what we think of as "duh" innovations in home automation. They don't license or sell their tech. They just sue people who try to make stuff.

      Patent Trolls suck! They need to stopped. And, the government needs to step in and stop them. They are killing technology in more areas then just home automation.

    11. Re:Good luck by tftp · · Score: 1

      In reference to the "serious flaws" and weaknesses...ever wondered why none of the home automation tech we've been promised since 1950 has come to be common in homes? Things like auto-opening drapes, autoadjusting lighting, stuff like that.

      It is common in some homes. There are contractors who offer automation, and there are individuals who buy pieces and arrange them. The main reason why it is not in every home is not cost and not patents, it's the low value of all that technology. I do have HA set up, and will be installing more switches and boxes. Why? Because I want to be able to centrally control lights (for example) and be able to find out where is that light that is still on when I go to bed. And to turn it off remotely. And I want to know where someone is walking and either turn the light on there automatically, or beep to tell me that someone is where nobody should be. But that's just me, because I do electronic stuff for living anyway, and I can afford it. If you have a $100K house you probably would be ill advised to spend $10K on HA - it's not even close to being worth it. But if you live in a more expensive, larger house, with some land, lawn, driveway, etc. - then you may find that $10K spent on HA increases resale value of your house because it is actually of use on a larger property.

    12. Re:Good luck by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      Yeah...I know. I tried to figure out who it was. My Dad's an RF engineer and he's the one that told me about it when I was talking to him about some home automation stuff I want to do (I wanted to copy his old setup).

      --
      This space for rent...
    13. Re:Good luck by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      That's part of why my dad was able to do so much with his. They custom built the house and he went over on weekends and ran several miles of cable through the walls before the drywall went up. There were multiple coax, POTS, and cat5 runs to each room, with a few extra things thrown in for future availability. Once the house was up it was a simple matter of plugging everything in.

      I agree with you totally. Retrofitting sucks.

      --
      This space for rent...
    14. Re:Good luck by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Not really sure what the outside temperature matters. If its 2 degrees outside, and my house is at a comfortable temp, theres no reason to turn on anything because of the outside temp.

      It could be 62f outside, and 90f in my office due to the PCs in it, I expect the system to deal with that regardless of outside temp.

      Time of day is not real useful as well. I have a thermostat that supports scheduling and what I've found is that I set the schedule to be the same all the time anyway, its cheaper to keep the house cool then to have the AC or heater run like hell to fix the problem before I get home, or to have a home thats uncomfortable because I came home early.

      By the sound of it, your father over engineered the problem and wasted time and money. Its okay, as a geek, its an unwritten law, unless he worked for NASA, in which case he shouldn't work for NASA.

      The real reason people don't do it? They don't see the need for it.

      If you want your lights on as a security precaution, buy an alarm, its far more effective. Temps should generally remain consistent to provide comfort. I've considered setting up automation on several occasions and every time I've come to the conclusion that the additional complexity and lowered reliability and chance for it to screw up are far worse than any benefits, perceived or otherwise that would result from doing so. There just ISN'T that much stuff that needs automated. Even with things like your coffee in the morning. You've got to set the machine up with water and coffee the day before anyway, at which point you can push the button to turn it on automatically, and if you forget to add water, you don't burn your house down. A 5 minute wait for coffee is far better than a trip to the hospital burn unit or funeral home.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    15. Re:Good luck by jeffstar · · Score: 1

      you might be interested in an open source front end to 1-wire devices called mango: http://mango.serotoninsoftware.com/

    16. Re:Good luck by jbengt · · Score: 1

      I've worked on the design of houses and condos with home automation systems, and even when installed at the time of construction, it can still cost $100s per point, adding up to $10,000s for a large house with lots of cool stuff to control.

    17. Re:Good luck by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      We wanted to do that when my brother-in-law's place was built, but because it was a rowhouse they wouldn't let anyone in until the drywall was already up so it's been a retrofit nightmare. My old house was a single story with a nice crawlspace and attic, so I could drop anything anywhere. It was wonderful. I completely rewired and replumbed the entire house while living there; from inside you would never have known save that every couple of days there was another new outlet somewhere or a switch had moved from a stupid place to a reasonable place. House I'm in now has a finished basement, and )*&)#^$!!! So nice when you can run a nice piece of conduit through the wall pre-drywall and subsequently snake anything you want through -- even fiber, I suppose. (Also a huge drawback to brick houses. Europeans look at our stickframe houses with complete horror, but man, retrofitting in brick is a whole different type of nightmare.)

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    18. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally someone, who actually knows something about home automation. If the subby thinks theirs been no progress it's because he's ignoring anything not linux (first mistake). A pc is good for a lot of things, but stable reliable control it is not. So unless you feel like tracking random bugs 5 years down the track, just get a decent control system (AMX or Creston are both acceptable), and keep it simple. I've seen a lot of AV projects go pear shape because someone want to redesign the wheel.

    19. Re:Good luck by OpenRemote · · Score: 1

      Retrofitting is pretty difficult to do for HA -- I'd still be happy with bricks even, my walls are just solid stone in many places (great for keeping the place cool during summers though).

      Have you tried RF for a retrofit like ZigBee or Z-Wave - they're pretty robust with mesh networks, can link to powerlines where possible and do have a decent protocol designs compared to a lot of other stuff people try to automate their homes with.

      --
      OpenRemote -- Open Source Home Automation
    20. Re:Good luck by JimFive · · Score: 1

      Not really sure what the outside temperature matters.
      ...
      It could be 62f outside, and 90f in my office due to the PCs in it, I expect the system to deal with that regardless of outside temp.

      If it's 62 outside and 90 in your office then you can open a vent and turn on a fan. If it's 85 outside you need the air conditioner.
      --
      JimFive

      --
      Please stop using the word theory when you mean hypothesis.
    21. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I can think of a bigger reason than "it's a large conspiracy where oil companies buy up patents for 80 mpg carburetors". How about the fact that the entire industry is slow to change. Engineered panels constructed of foam and recycled wood have taken 2 decades to finally get any decent showing in the industry, simple because builders know how to stick frame. There are very few builders or tradespeople that would be very happy if the general contractor told them that "oh, by the way, you will need to interface with this new technology", which is why only do-it-yourselfers have these systems installed. Somebody mentioned earlier that everybody is taking the wrong approach, and then promptly went off the deep end talking about toasters cooking for you. An approach that would make this more mainstream, and thus marketable, would be to come at it with the mindset that it has to be incorporated into the way the trades currently build a house, and anything different needs to be a simple install. And marketable matters, since until it is, it won't grow very fast. So that's what I'm doing on my senior design project. This comments section is driving a lot of our system requirements, so again you folks rule. As soon as we have a link we'll post it.

    22. Re:Good luck by afidel · · Score: 1

      At 10x more the ROI vs CFL's is going to be looooong so consumers would either have to have altruistic intentions in the purchase or you are going to have to show significant improvements AND likely offer a 3rd party warranty on them (further increasing costs).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    23. Re:Good luck by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I think this still goes back to the fact that it's not mainstream, and because of the way the homebuilding industry works (houses aren't designed or engineered like cars and airplanes, they're just slapped up by a bunch of uneducated people who do things the same way they've always done them, and never adopt new technologies unless they're forced to). If houses were engineered like cars and airplanes, and most new houses had this equipment installed in them, the cost per unit would fall dramatically.

  6. Insteon, but not all that OSS friendly by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

    I think the most reasonably priced option is smarthome.com's Insteon products but they're still fairly pricy. It's hard to justify replacing all the switches and outlets in a home because the price per is so much higher than just a typical dumb switch or outlet from Home Depot.

    The Insteon stuff can be hacked a bit but the company is not at all OSS friendly. They're much more interested in business partners then they are in end users. They'd much rather sell big expensive packages and commercial systems.

    However, pretty much all other options are either even more expensive or else the really primitive X10 stuff that just isn't very good.

    1. Re:Insteon, but not all that OSS friendly by Deth_Master · · Score: 4, Informative
      from http://misterhouse.wikispaces.com/Insteon It appears that you can actually use insteon quite well with Open Source stuff.

      As of 2009/03, Insteon is fully supported for open source on unix or windows, but for this you must use a P(ower)L(ine)M(odem) (not a serial or USB PLC) and use it with misterhouse.

      A favorite site of mine is Linux Home Automation. Decent amounts of good information.
      I am of the opinion that Home Automation isn't as far along as it should be.

      --
      find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown :us
    2. Re:Insteon, but not all that OSS friendly by vlm · · Score: 1

      The Insteon stuff can be hacked a bit but the company is not at all OSS friendly. They're much more interested in business partners then they are in end users. They'd much rather sell big expensive packages and commercial systems.

      I have plenty of Insteon stuff and a nice misterhouse installation. It just works. Really.

      X10 is not reliable so you have to play games like send each command 3 times and hope its OK. Insteon is all 2-way and each command is ack'd.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Insteon, but not all that OSS friendly by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      The Insteon folks are an odd lot, the lawyer part is very much a pain to deal with (License) but the rest seem to have no problems with the open source community playing with the Insteon stuff. As has already been pointed out Misterhouse has had Insteon since about 2006. Gregg and the rest of the crew have done a good job with using Insteon. I'm using Insteon and Misterhouse right now. In addition it supports X10, Z-Wave (albeit in a limited fashion), UPB, EIB/KNX etc. So you can mix and match. In addition Misterhouse can add support for whatever a coder wants as long as they can figure out how to get to the information. Home automation is not just about devices, it's information too. I wish more people would understand that.

  7. Closed source in home automation != good by Viski · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't want to deploy an automation system which is dependant on Microsoft - or any other proprietary vendor - into my home.

    Buildings (and their automation systems) have lifespan of tens of years, not just until the next major OS upgrade. Of course, automation systems do not (hopefully) need to be upgraded every other week, but open source at least gives you the possibility to keep your system upgraded long after the closed source vendors have decided to drop support for your system.

    1. Re:Closed source in home automation != good by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      Industrial and large scale building automation has been getting along quite well on proprietary solutions since the beginning. Attempts to bring FOSS into it have died, last I checked.

      These systems are not inexpensive up front, but they certainly don't fall apart once a vendor drops support. I know of many industrial applications still chugging along with PLCs made in the 80s. All the top tier HMI packages can interface with them, so even if your front end is exposed enough to be worried about your computer's OS needing to be patched, you need only upgrade some minor parts.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:Closed source in home automation != good by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Dropped vendor support isn't a complete kiss of death; but it is still pretty annoying. I babysit, from time to time, a couple of heating control systems from the days when "webapp" meant "so, you have an HTTP server and a java applet". There is one highly particular java version that actually works, anything newer breaks. An upgrade, apparently, would involve a whole new module and one or more electricians, so that isn't happening until the sucker dies.

    3. Re:Closed source in home automation != good by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      Those days are still with us. I was recently shown what I was assured was a 'state of the art' lighting controller from Square D that was little more than an HTTP server and a java applet. Luckily Square D also offers a (proprietary) client app.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    4. Re:Closed source in home automation != good by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      You can disassemble the Java and then recompile it to work from a PC. This would allow you to fix bugs and add features as needed. I've done it for one of my IP cameras that seem to only support some bastardized version of MS Java. In addition it was a bit buggy. The only issue I needed to resolve was the security because I wasn't running the Java code served from the camera. It still worked quite well.

  8. Internet toaster 20 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interop in 1990: a TCP/IP controlled toaster was demonstrated:

    http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_myths_toast.htm

    And in 1991, a robotic arm was built to insert the toast, again using TCP/IP commands.

    1. Re:Internet toaster 20 years ago by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      And in 1992, a robot was built to eat the toasts, rendering the whole project useless.

  9. X10 makes cool stuff for automation by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You know, that annoying company that bombarded the late 90's with ads about their X10 "Spy Camera" system?

    Well, the same company now makes all sorts of neat wireless and wired gadgets for automating your house. You can get replacement switches and outlets, or add-on ones (that plug into existing outlets) and can be controlled by their own wireless panels or by a computer interface. I know they have software for Windows but something might be available on Linux.

    Basically with the X10 system you could potentially control every outlet, switch, and light with a single interface, as well as any low-voltage system (garage doors, etc) you want. You can also wire up sensors to windows and doors in order to trigger events such as turning on a light, sounding an alarm, or via the computer sending an e-mail or making a phone call.

    Cool stuff, and when I buy a house I'm going to run the full gamut with these things. The nice thing is that the individual outlets and such aren't overly expensive so you could start with just a few and expand your system over time.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      X10 the company is different that X10 the home automation semi-standard.

    2. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Perhaps so - there's plenty of other companies making X10 protocol compatible devices - but X10.com is indeed the same company that did those annoying pop-ups.

      Their web site is a testament of all that's wrong with Web Design in the world, however, you're not buying their web site, you're buying their switches and outlets and those work fine.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    3. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh...no, it isn't.

    4. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Cool stuff, and when I buy a house I'm going to run the full gamut with these things.

      I wouldn't do that. If you own your house, you can do much, much better than X10.

      The great thing about X10 is that it's relatively cheap, and can be retrofitted into existing houses easily.

      In almost every other respect, X10 kinda sucks. I don't say this lightly, and it is possible to do cool things with X10, but there are really severe limitations.

      I used X10 to fully automate my apartment a couple of years ago. It was quite sweet -- my apartment would send me a text if any emergency situation happened, it would run security cameras, turn lights on and off automatically when people were in rooms, the whole deal. I ran it with a linux box and misterhouse.

      I still use X10 now, to automate party lights. My computer turns different effects on and off at preset times during the music. This is using linux, with xmms and a custom plugin to run X10 as the audio player.

      So my experience is fairly deep. Here are the problems with X10: slow transmission speed (about .8 secs per command). No error detection/control, so commands can and do get lost and misinterpreted, and if you have multiple sources of commands (motion sensors, etc.) that transmit simultaneously, the collision causes havoc.

      There are other solutions that are much better, if you don't mind more installation effort and/or more expense.

    5. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by nullchar · · Score: 1

      X10 has had 3rd party open-source / linux support for years. The main problem with the tech is the combination of weak RF wireless and powerline communication. Modern circuit breakers (at least mine does) filter out the powerline communication between circuits. So when you're trying to control the lights across the house from your PC, the RF is too weak to make it there and powerline comm doesn't make it either.

      X10 is nice in that the modules can replace wall sockets, light switches, light sockets, etc. so you can add to your house over time and you don't need much special wiring.

    6. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Anonymous+Codger · · Score: 1

      X-10 works great when it works. But their build quality is just about the worst of any product I have ever seen. It's rare for a timer or module to last more than a few months past warranty expiration. It also doesn't play well with compact fluorescent bulbs. Don't waste your money.

      --
      No sig? Sigh...
    7. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Informative

      X10 is CRAP. It supports only 16 device codes and 16 house codes, and the majority of their controllers are only able to control one housecode at a time.

      In short, there's a total address space of only 256 devices, and it's partitioned into 16 chunks of 16.

      Also, it's heavily unreliable. The modulation scheme hasn't been revamped in decades to take advantage of modern ECC schemes (which are no longer computationally expensive).

      They could have had great success with an "X10 version 2" with a more robust ECC scheme and larger address space, the closest thing is Insteon which has its own set of problems (namely a history of unfriendliness to open-source efforts.)

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Seakip18 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd agree from my limited experience.

      I needed a simple security system that would dependably make a loud noise if someone opened the door. So far, it does that as well as could be expected in an house that's being rented.

      The equipment is pretty cheap, the technology is dependable enough for what you pay.

      Their website, x10.com, is definitely shows a lack of taste with their ads.

      Now, as the parent said, if I owned the house, I'd have gone a much more powerful route, probably involving an arduino, 1-wire devices, etc. since I could drill and run wire wherever I want.

      It might take 10x the time a x10 system would, but it'd be worth it once it's finished and working.

      --
      import system.cool.Sig;
    9. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      If you own your house (or the bank does but lets you live there) and know electrical wiring then, yes, there are much better solutions.

      I know industrial automation, so I bought a SLC5/05 in a chassis full of IO off of ebay for less than $200. That, some relatively cheap electrical hardware, and a few years of designing control systems nets me what is probably the most reliable way to automate a house that can be had.

      But that isn't remotely within the reach of the average home occupant. I think X10 and their peers are offering a turnkey approximation of what I have, but that is very difficult to do.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    10. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh... yes it is. Pico Electronics developed the standard, and yes, Pico is/was owned by X10 Wireless at some point, but the standard is different from the company and several other vendors make and have made X10 protocol compliant hardware.

    11. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by ovu · · Score: 1

      Why oh why, must a post coming from a place of deep experience not offer any alternative options? The purpose of this discussion thread? May we please have a suggestion?

    12. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I think X10 and their peers are offering a turnkey approximation of what I have, but that is very difficult to do.

      Oh, indeed! But the key is "and their peers". X10 is the least reliable option amongst its peers. It can, nonetheless, be a good choice in the right circumstances, but for whole-house automation in a place you own, X10 is probably the wrong one.

    13. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I didn't list any because the main contenders have already been listed in the other comments. For my money, I'd go with 1-wire. There are also radio-based solutions that use Zigbee, which I don't think I've seen mentioned.

    14. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      There are other solutions that are much better, if you don't mind more installation effort and/or more expense.

      I would appreciate your feedback on a few solutions that are better. I have been toying with the idea of home automation for a while now, and am very serious about doing it in the next year.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    15. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by not-my-real-name · · Score: 1

      I needed a simple security system that would dependably make a loud noise if someone opened the door. So far, it does that as well as could be expected in an house that's being rented.

      This should be fairly easy - just carefully balance a stack of pots and pans against the door.

      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    16. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Seakip18 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but then what'd happen when the cat/dog/roommates see a shiny object and runs into the pots?

      What if I need a constant loud pot noise? Perhaps a trap door of pots? Then again, with that many pots, I could actually detain the intruder!

      --
      import system.cool.Sig;
    17. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by D4C5CE · · Score: 1

      X10 is [...] heavily unreliable. The modulation scheme hasn't been revamped in decades to take advantage of modern ECC schemes (which are no longer computationally expensive).

      They could have had great success with an "X10 version 2" with a more robust ECC scheme and larger address space

      They did revamp X10 to some extent, and called it A10. No doubt engineering has long surpassed X10's decades-old approach, but few other standards are affordably anywhere near mass market and "FLOSS-friendly".

      However, 2-way communications only shine where the return channel provides useful information such as the position of blinds or the power consumption, ambient temperature or brightness at the remote location where a device has been switched on (and all of these sensors, or a simple standard plug or screw terminal to wire the latter two as appropriate, should only add about a dollar combined to the cost of making the modules).

    18. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by not-my-real-name · · Score: 1

      If you don't mind the door standing open a little, there's always the tried and true method of a bucket of whitewash balanced on top of the door.

      If you're serious about detaining the intruder, replace the bucket of whitewash with an anvil. Check your local laws first before trying this.

      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    19. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The problems you are complaining about are because of the crappy equipment sold by X10.com. The X10 protocol (which is not 'owned' by X10.com) does not prevent status responses from being sent, but when you buy bargin basement crap from a website designed to leech your money, you get crappy hardware.

      Do you complain when you get a e-machine and it doesn't have a PCI-E slot as well? Pay for quality and get quality (sometimes :), don't pay for quality and you probably won't get quality, unless they haven't yet figured out how they can make it cheaper and maximize their profits. You really do get what you pay for.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Actually, almost none of my X10 hardware came from X10 The Company. X10 The Company does make total crap.

      The X10 protocol has its place, but it has severe problems at the protocol level. You need much more than just status responses to fix it, and with the low bandwidth, those status responses alone can render the protocol unusable for many things.

    21. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've given up on X10 - it works randomly, my kids think it's a joke and I agree

    22. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the insight into X10. I have only read about them online and I've wanted to get some units for awhile, but now I'll think twice. I still want to get a few units for my current residence (apartment) but when I move into a house of my own I'll consider all options.

      While I'm not electrical engineer I've done plenty of wiring and basic electrical work that I'm not afraid of getting into a system with wiring, but I don't know if I'd be willing to bust up TOO many walls for it. It will depend on the house that I end up with I guess.

      Besides X10, there really aren't too many options for wireless control of switches, outlets, etc - unless you're aware of some?

      My current home automation system consists of two HandiSwitches =)

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    23. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the feedback on the X10. I currently live in an apartment and I was hoping to acquire some X10 stuff I could use there and bring it to a house when I get one eventually.

      It sounds like if you're careful setting it up (make sure the transceiver isn't too far from the devices and such) you could get away with an X10 system, barring any hardware failures with the devices themselves.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    24. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Looks like they improved signal quality/reliability, but address space was my biggest annoyance.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  10. What about INSTEON? by Anonymusing · · Score: 3, Informative

    What about INSTEON? If you have a Mac, you can use Indigo to manage it -- even from an iPhone.

    I've also heard about Control4 -- and don't forget X10, even though I can't tell if their home page is advertising porn or home automation products. I'll let you automate my systems, baby!

    --
    Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
    1. Re:What about INSTEON? by Deth_Master · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know, geocities is closing today, but it lives on at x10.com

      --
      find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown :us
    2. Re:What about INSTEON? by denis-The-menace · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I talked to a Control4 dealer and I got a few interesting tidbits:

      -The *Dealer* installs, configures the system into your house using special dealer-only software (PWD protect the system, too)
      -You get a turnkey system, not the pwd.
      -You can get something like an SDK for it but it is a *subset* (read: down version) of what the dealer used.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    3. Re:What about INSTEON? by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      I had a Control4 quote done for my house. $40,000 just for the lighting system. I stopped listening when they started talking audio distribution. It worked out to over $300 per switch and outlet. Needless to say I didn't buy the system.

    4. Re:What about INSTEON? by slashkitty · · Score: 1
      The basic INSTEON kit is $200 and it lets you control one light.. no free software.

      I remember a similar x10 kit that was like $10, and had lots of free software.

      --
      -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    5. Re:What about INSTEON? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You mean the following root password? username=root password=t0talc0ntr0l4!
      The project is XML and if talk to the controller on port 5205 (the zserver) you can issue it any commands. Not hard to figure it out if you what the output coming in from devices.

    6. Re:What about INSTEON? by joe_garage · · Score: 1

      as a dull mater of interest - the control4 system runs on a linux kernel

    7. Re:What about INSTEON? by m_number4 · · Score: 1

      Yes Insteon is excellent, it basically covers everything the questioner wants and if combined with Universal Devices ISY 99i Pro you don't even need a computer to run it, you do however need browser access to the ISY device to program it which is the fun part. I'm a DIYer and have installed about 30 light switches, 2 of which are three-way, a bunch of power recepticles and movement sensors for some of the lights. It works both wirelessly and over the powerlines of the house which makes it really easy to install (no cables). The wireless frequency is different to the standard house devices so you wont get interference. This is a significnat level above the x10 stuff and works consistently as advertised.

    8. Re:What about INSTEON? by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Wow I'd say that at least 210% of the 'facts' in your message were pulled from a flying monkey's butt. You can not purchase and X10 kit for $10.

      If you use X10 compatible modules (not made by X10) of similar quality to Insteon (the Smarthome Icon modules are pretty good) the costs are about the same but the reliability of Insteon is better.

      While on the subject of X10 and reliability, X10 owners may want to take a look at the XTB (an X10 booster).

    9. Re:What about INSTEON? by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, free software, take a look at Insteon software here (sorry I forgot). Yes it's my site and yes I really need to update it but I'm working on Insteon software.

    10. Re:What about INSTEON? by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Parent should be marked informative. Without knowing x10 was for HA before hand i'd have had no idea wtf the site was, assumed domain squatter and left. Sadly enough they put a
      "How can we improve this page?
      We value your comments and suggestions!"
      at the bottom.

      I guess no one bothered filling it out?

    11. Re:What about INSTEON? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the x10 kit was free and you paid like $5 shipping. Of course that deal ended years ago, pretty much went to $50 for that deal. X10 works great for some things. My parents place have some outdoor lights controlled by a light sensor. Rather than trying to put a light sensor on every light there's just the one which sends x10 commands to the lights. If the signal doesn't get through no big deal. If you want more than a few devices or better reliability x10 starts to suffer. You can find the starter kits equivalent to that old x10 starter kit on sale occasionally for about $130 and there's a few free softwares to control it - including one through smarthome (though it sucks.)

    12. Re:What about INSTEON? by Tiger · · Score: 1

      Well, first you have to get a system in place. So you get to pay $BIGNUM for something you need to hack anyway.

      (As a side note... unless your post is tongue in cheek... does it constitute a breach of DMCA or similar? Should we be horrified that each system has the same root password as you're implying?)

    13. Re:What about INSTEON? by senor_burt · · Score: 1

      I had a good experience with Insteon. Plus I tied their SDK into a speech recognition system, so I can tell the room to adjust lighting as I want.
      In addition to the SDK they had a web server - which took HTTP triggered commands quite nicely, to device or class of devices.

      I found their SDK was sufficient to let me do the basics that I wanted - though their documentation was a pain to work with.

      Very nice project. And not very expensive (at least for one room - you needed X10/Insteon devices everywhere you wanted it).

      Insteon was nicer because it did dual transmissions - wireless and powerline - so I didn't have to worry about the house's wiring.

  11. Same as linux on the desktop by klubar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Product is three to five years away and will be for the next twenty. (The answer is the same for fusion enery, except fusion is 5 to 10 years away and will be for the next twenty. Flying cars: 5 to 8 years. Specify your technology here...)

    1. Re:Same as linux on the desktop by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      I dunno what you're talking about. I've been running Ubuntu at work on my notebook for the past six months, and I'll tell you right now that it's ready for the Desktop. It's been a pure joy using this machine, and the Compiz stuff (notable Desktop Cube) make my life a lot easier.

      Sure, I have to run some Windows software - Office specifically. But, it runs great on CrossOver, and other than that, this company uses Notes and IBM has a fully functional Notes client for Linux in a Deb/Ubuntu installable package.

      It's been nothing but good news running Ubuntu on this notebook and I look forward to many more years of running Linux as my primary desktop in the years to come.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    2. Re:Same as linux on the desktop by sco_robinso · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The home automation field seems to have many of the same issues as Linux and many FOSS projects - too many small players and not enough industry-wide standardization and focus. As the OP points out, there's tons of options out there, all with their own major issues and problems. Crestron and AMX are the two big players out there, but they're not cheap, and far from open.

    3. Re:Same as linux on the desktop by vlm · · Score: 1

      Yes, same as linux on the desktop... Had it at my house since the mid 90s, and granny will almost certainly never have it.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Same as linux on the desktop by markov23 · · Score: 1

      not sure what your definition of open is as it regards amx -- it has a complete programming language that controls every one of their products and you can add non-amx products to any project. Whats closed about that? -- Now the price thing -- no argument there.

  12. Or by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's complex, expensive, unreliable and 99.99999% of the population don't think it's necessary.
     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Or by daveime · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, there are 370 people stuck in basements, trying to work out why the curtains open every time they play a game of Minesweeper.

    2. Re:Or by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's complex, expensive, unreliable and 99.99999% of the population don't think it's necessary.

      That would have described a PC in 1981.

    3. Re:Or by digitalsushi · · Score: 1

      That leaves about 70,000 people who think it's necessary. Probably about as many people who still read slashdot, even after the noisy posts by people who don't understand geek culture.

      --
      slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    4. Re:Or by raftpeople · · Score: 1

      Not really. PC's took off in business quickly because there were substantial things that could be automated (calculating using spreadsheets for example or word processing).

      With automating home stuff, what exactly am I saving? Flipping a light switch? There just isn't much to automate and what there is is hardly worth it.

    5. Re:Or by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      "Expensive"? It can save on your heating, air conditioning, and lighting bills. If it pays for itself in savings in a reasonable time, it doesn't matter what it costs. "Complex"? People pilot much more complex systems all the time. "Unreliable" may be a valid objection; the trick is to develop a system that is both cost-effective and reliable -- like indoor plumbing.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re:Or by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      The spreadsheet was around in 1981. You're way off-base.

      Before the spreadsheet was invented... yah, possibly. But while PCs were "useless" then, everybody knew that their big brothers were extremely useful, so... yah.

    7. Re:Or by ChefInnocent · · Score: 1

      Depending on what you are automating: gas, electricity, plants. My plan was to put dampers to each room with a thermostat, and program the acceptable heating & cooling parameters for the room. Not every room needs to be the same temperature in the house. In addition to the dampers it would be nice if the rooms could open & close the draperies to aid in heating or cooling the room provided no one was occupying the room. I also wanted to setup 40 watering zones in my yard to allow for a variety of plants, and because I can't remember to turn on & off the water at appropriate times. With this, I think it would be great to set the system up with monitors to determine what the soil moisture is in order to better determine whether or not the scheduled watering is necessary. Lights are great, but a remote could solve most of that issue. It's HVAC & watering I see where automation could help.

    8. Re:Or by uvsc_wolverine · · Score: 1

      I know someone that has a damper system like the one you describe. It cost about $1000 to have it installed (not bad actually for parts+labor). Now they can individually control temp in each room with either a control panel near the front door or a control in the bedroom.

      --
      This space for rent...
    9. Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, but so was fire at one point.

    10. Re:Or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's complex, expensive, unreliable and 99.99999% of the population don't think it's necessary.

      I agree.

      Same as the computer was 20 years ago.

      Oh wait...

    11. Re:Or by jbengt · · Score: 1

      My plan was to put dampers to each room with a thermostat, and program the acceptable heating & cooling parameters for the room.

      There are a lot of HVAC control companies that can set up systems like that. But be careful if you intend to do it yourself. For almost all residential heating and cooling equipment (and most commercial or industrial equipment) you can't just arbitrarily reduce the airflow by closing dampers. You could easily end up doing things like freezing the evaporator coil, shutting the heat off due to overtemperature safeties (you should never rely on safeties during normal operation - they're for when something unexpectedly goes wrong), damaging the ductwork from overpressurization, running the fan outside of its' stable range, and probably a few more things I can't think of off hand. Typical system like this do not allow dampers to close all the way and/or have a controlled relief damper to maintain the proper minimum airflow. Even then, there are specialized control sequences to prevent "short-cycling", that is, to prevent the heating burner and A/C compressors from turning on and off too rapidly.

    12. Re:Or by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I was referring to home computing; I wanted a computer but nobody could understand why. I should have been more precisse, but I figured that a site full of nerds would understand. I guess not.

  13. Too expensive by Orange+Crush · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The main reason I haven't bothered looking in to home automation more seriously is the expense of all the "bits" (switches, outlets, thermostats, etc.).

    What are the cheapest options out there right now?

    I'd be most interested in controlling HVAC, ceiling fans and lighting.

    1. Re:Too expensive by rodrigo1979 · · Score: 3, Informative

      checkout iobridge http://www.iobridge.com/

    2. Re:Too expensive by Zerth · · Score: 1

      Cheapest?

      Cheapest I'd go is to take an old spring/mercury switch thermostat and replace the switch with a USB controlled switch, get a cheap USB thermometer, plug both of those into a hub, then plug the hub into a Sheevaplug.

      You can get cheaper by replacing the Sheevaplug with something embedded, like an Arduino, but I'm too lazy.

    3. Re:Too expensive by PecurB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      X10 stuff is cheap but pretty easy to tinker with. A number of years ago I bought an X10 Firecracker kit. They occasionally have it on sale for around $5 without warning, so if you keep an eye on that site you might be able to get it really cheap. I hadn't used it in years but a little while ago I figured it'd be cool to be able to remotely turn my porch lights and other devices on/off from my smartphone (I have an iPhone). Since I have a linux box at home hooked up to a cable modem this was a fairly straightforward exercise. I used the BottleRocket software to control the X10 devices from the linux box then wrote a very simple bare-bones PHP interface to it. Poke a hole through my firewall to allow incoming connections (via authenticated HTTPS of course) and now with a couple of clicks I can do things like turn on my exterior lights when I leave work or a friends house. For anybody who is interested, I wrote everything up on my blog and posted the PHP code as well.

    4. Re:Too expensive by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you can solder: http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/1-wire/

      Or if you can't: http://www.hobby-boards.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=24

      Or if you sign up on Maxim's website they'll send you 1-2 samples of some of their products. Very awesome indeed.

    5. Re:Too expensive by vlm · · Score: 1

      What are the cheapest options out there right now?

      You need to clarify cheap as in upfront $, cheap as in reliable so you don't have to replace all the time and it actually works, or cheap as in labor hours. You will not get the same answer.

      Based on years of experience, currently using Insteon (used to use unreliable X10) and misterhouse, you're going to drop about $60 per "thing" automated, and it'll last a long time/forever if its not a dimmer and it'll actually work reliably if its insteon, and it'll be a good sweaty half hour of wiring and moving stuff of labor combined with perhaps an hour or two of fooling around with misterhouse.

      In terms of upfront time, effort and entertainment, its about like a poor videogame.

      Also, very much like the network effect, the value of automation increases as something like the square of the number of "things" interconnected. So, the worlds most elaborate lamppost timer is "X" units of cool, but ten "things" in my home office fully wired up and automated is worth about "X**10" units of cool.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:Too expensive by mhajicek · · Score: 2, Funny

      The cheapest and most reliable way to control a light is to sneakernet the control signal to the switch. If your setup is correct, every time you enter or leave a room you'll have a short network path to issue the switch command.

    7. Re:Too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crestron (http://www.crestron.com/)
      AMX (http://www.amx.com/)
              - Expensive, top of the line general purpose control

      Lutron (http://www.lutron.com/)
              - Mostly geared to lighting products but branched out

      Extron (http://www.extron.com/)
              - Mostly geared to video products but branched out

      Aurora Multimedia (http://auroramultimedia.com/)
              - offers WACI interfaces, that is worth it for the name...

      Yes, there are many bits to buy to control each and every thing.

  14. linux ha by IMightB · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:linux ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      How dare you laugh at Linux, you insensitive clod!

      Oh...nevermind.

    2. Re:linux ha by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Yes, I wasn't thinking when I selected the name! I still understand why nobody understand that HA is Home Automation, I mean what else could it be? (My apologies to the High Availability folks but I got there first :-) ).

  15. Either you get one of two things... by HerculesMO · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can either automate your home the way you want to and use the best tool for the job, or you can bash your head against the wall and try to use open source stuff that pales in comparison.

    I use my computer as a tool, it's not a religion, so I'll use what works best.

    If you're trying to make a case study about how Linux can automate your home -- have at it.

    I prefer actually getting the job done.

    --
    The price is always right if someone else is paying.
    1. Re:Either you get one of two things... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      You can either automate your home the way you want to and use the best tool for the job, or you can bash your head against the wall and try to use open source stuff that pales in comparison.

      That's interesting, because I used open source HA software for the simple reason that it met my requirements much better than any commercial software that I could find. I would have said that the commercial stuff "pales in comparison" and then some.

      I guess it just goes to show that no piece of software meets everybody's needs.

    2. Re:Either you get one of two things... by HerculesMO · · Score: 1

      Again, the OP seems to state that the open source stuff doesn't cut the snuff.

      If it works better for you, great -- have at it. I am not trying to hold you back.

      But if I have a task to accomplish, I'm going to use what gets me there in the most efficient way possible.

      Most of the time, that requires not using Linux and not using open source. So I'm not the fanatic about it... big deal? Either Linux and Open source get better, or we continually have people trying to "make it work" and it's a shoddy solution.

      That's why Linux never gets anywhere too, but I won't start that can of worms.

      --
      The price is always right if someone else is paying.
    3. Re:Either you get one of two things... by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      There seems to be a serious lack of faith in the farce. ;-)

      BTW, I use my tools to automate my home, my lab work and to write a book (okay not a great one) on home automation.

    4. Re:Either you get one of two things... by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Ah, my apologies, this was not clear from your first message. There are places where just making it 'just work' is acceptable. Those generally have a very low SAF. My wife keeps me honest and she is spoiled by the 'IT' support she gets at home. Any system that is installed in my home must be tested first. Same as with my network customers. Just dropping something into a working system without some form of pre-install testing is just asking for trouble. Bubble gum and bailing wire are not acceptable solutions. As to whether the system is open source or not. I doubt there is a single fully open source system in the world. I mix and match as needed. It's just that there are no Windows OS running on important systems. Heck running virus/trojan/adware checking software that eats more than half the systems resources is a terrible waste. And resolving mysterious outbreaks of virus/trojan/adware because some piece of hardware was running Windows (but the vendor didn't say so) is just unacceptable. I've lived through too much of that in my line of work. I won't have any of that in my home.

    5. Re:Either you get one of two things... by HerculesMO · · Score: 1

      I don't even run an antivirus on my Windows 7 box... if it's just doing idle work like serving something up, I never have any issues with it. XP on the other hand... what's the saying, if you put it on the internet unpatched, it can be compromised in minutes. Granted I believe that with a grain of salt but it's partly true :)

      --
      The price is always right if someone else is paying.
    6. Re:Either you get one of two things... by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      The odd this is that these devices (Traffic generators, Printers and other test equipment) weren't on the internet. They were on a protected lan. The problem was that someone brought an infected laptop onto the protected network and the infection started. It might not have been such a problem but the equipment wasn't even known to be Windows based and getting the vendor to 'fess up was a royal pain. Once we threatened them with a cancellation of the maintenance contract we were able to gain some headway.

  16. Check out Linuxmce. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've been using Linuxmce for quite a while now as a multimedia system but it also offers home automation and is opensource.

  17. What do you want home automation for? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What purpose are you accomplishing with this home automation? I have seen these predictions and calls for home automation for years, but I have never seen a compelling reason for doing so.
    Automatic inventory of what food you have in and generate a shopping list? Great, if I always kept the same stock of food in the house, or it didn't cost a lot more to have food delivered than it does to go to the store to buy it.
    Automatic control of the microwave, stovetop, oven, etc? I still have to put the food in to these devices and then remove it when it is cooked, most of the food I cook requires intervention during cooking.
    I could go on, but I just don't see what I get out of investing in these gadgets for home automation.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    1. Re:What do you want home automation for? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Being "Green". I keep my house at very nominal temperature. If I want to

      If I had full control (via servos) over which vents or portions of the house were heated, I could say: 7 am, warm up bedroom and bathroom
      8 am, go back to nominal
      6 pm, warm up kitchen and living room
      10 pm, warm up bedroom and let living room cool.
      12 pm, let bedroom go to cooler state (I own blankets).

      Now Imagine being able to text that to your phone. Going to run a bit late from work? Tell it not to warm up the living room. We've all heard the 'energy saving tips' of setting the house 1C cooler. What about not keeping your entire house at the same temp all day and night when you're there or not.

    2. Re:What do you want home automation for? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think having a network-enabled microwave is lame. However, I think there are some places where it *could* make sense to invest in home automation: intelligent control of heat and lighting. If you have sensors that tell the computer where people are (and some adaptive software so it learns where they generally tend to be and go at different times) and have zone heating/AC, it's possible you could save a lot of money. At my old house we quite rarely used the downstairs and one room, so we closed them off and closed the heater vents to them, and reduced our heating costs by about 20%. Likewise, intelligent lighting control would mean if nobody's in the room the light automatically turns off, or for areas that are often used, dims to 10% with a rapid-on if a person walks through. Since this is the field in which I work, I might as well add a few numbers: we're trying to do this for parking lot and street lighting, specifically using dimming to a fraction of full lighting, and somewhat intelligent prediction of where people are heading so we can just crank up the relevant lights, and are claiming municipalities can reduce their power costs by 30% based on studies we've had done. We hope it'll be even higher than that, but we feel pretty confident in the 30% claim, given that 80% of the lights will be using 80% less power about 65% of the time.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    3. Re:What do you want home automation for? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      A programmable thermostat does that just fine, though. We have 4 settings on our 30 year old thermostat. Wake, leave, return, and sleep. We can set different times for each day of the week for these settings and the temperature range I set is usually about 10 degrees different throughout the four settings. I have a nearly 2000 square foot house and spend about $75 a month on my utilities, even with old drafty windows and doors (which are getting replaced this year).

      And all of that came with the 30 year old house. Your example is the only compelling example I've ever heard for automation, except laziness, and it's been done for many many years without the need for expensive gadgets. The thermostat in my house can be replaced with a more modern one (if I felt the need) for less than $20.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    4. Re:What do you want home automation for? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      The problem with auto-dimming lights at home is people don't like them. They are intrusive and turn on garishly bright lights when you don't want them, or turn off lights when you do want them (like while reading a book, for example).

      We have automatic lights in a lot of the offices at my work, and they invariably get disabled by the occupants because they come on and go off at the wrong times.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    5. Re:What do you want home automation for? by vlm · · Score: 1

      What purpose are you accomplishing with this home automation? I have seen these predictions and calls for home automation for years, but I have never seen a compelling reason for doing so.

      Probably the simplest way is to break it down by location.

      NTP plus misterhouse's built in functions means my security lights outside turn on shortly after sunset and off at bedtime. They also turn on in the morning, on days that I go to work, if its before sunrise (I live at a pretty high latitude...) Also certain outside lights turn on for awhile when the garage door is opened.

      The soundcard is wired into an octopus of speakers in many rooms of my house. Atomic clock accurate grandfather clock chimes. A considerable length of perl code mutes or unmutes based on various bedtimes, etc. It also makes a weird alarm clock.

      Text to speech makes various announcements thru above speakers. Long story there.

      misterhouse is set up as an AIM bot, I can command it and see what its up to remotely.

      misterhouse also has a nice, or at least usable web interface to control it.

      I have several remote controlled switches that are essentially using misterhouse as an extremely complicated timer.

      Long term plans:

      reconfigure my hvac system with motion detectors and a permanent schedule to basically shut off unused parts of the house to save energy and turn them back on predictably in advance of when they'd be needed.

      sync my google calendar with misterhouse and utilize the text to speech

      Get my weather station connected, and use misterhouse text to speech to announce the temperature each hour, etc.

      Work extensively on modes. Put lights, speakers, even HVAC, into "movie watching mode" vs "work mode" vs "sleep mode" etc.

      In house motion sensors trigger my lights, timers, and HVAC intelligently.

      Its the kind of thing that you add one little thing at a time. The goal, is to notice things I manually do "all the time" and automate them away...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:What do you want home automation for? by raftpeople · · Score: 1

      Connected rooms like, say, living room, dining room, kitchen can't really be heated separately. Bedrooms or separate floors maybe.

      What about not keeping your entire house at the same temp all day and night when you're there or not.

      My thermostat lets me enter a very detailed heating/cooling schedule already (time and temp, not specific rooms)

    7. Re:What do you want home automation for? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      What if you're running late? What if you're going to return from vacation a day later than you thought, how about a day earlier?

      Yes, there is no 'point' to it other than I like it. Then again anything that can be 'automated' you can easily do by hand.

    8. Re:What do you want home automation for? by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      I've been doing that for years with a programmable thermostat. Bonus points, actually, since the newer models (and we got a new one from the insurance company a month ago, because we got a new furnace after a flood) also allow you to program seasons into it, and controls for different heat levels at different times of year.

      In the winter, the overnight temperature is 14'C. It goes up to 18' starting at 5:00am, and back down to 14'C at 7:00. Back up around 6:00pm, and starts going down at 10:00.

      In the summer, the rules are slightly different. We run the A/C overnight, cooling the house to 18'C, and let the house heat up naturally (closed curtains, thermal glass, etc.) over the course of the day, with the A/C not coming back on until 10:00pm.

      The thing is... this is something you could have been doing for a very long time... programmable thermostats have been available for almost 20 years now. While some would count it as home automation, I wouldn't, as you don't need a dedicated computer to handle the automation for you. In fact, most of what people would consider home automation can be done quite cheaply with things like socket timers, an electronic thermostat, motion detectors, and for things like your outdoor house lights, an ambient light sensor hooked up to the switch. All of these technologies have been around since the 80's and earlier.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    9. Re:What do you want home automation for? by vlm · · Score: 1

      And all of that came with the 30 year old house. Your example is the only compelling example I've ever heard for automation,

      You misread him. He wants to change from a classic 1-zone HVAC system to a 3-zone with automated dampers (much like I am planning). There is no point in heating/cooling my office outside of work at home hours (plus a couple hours in advance to preheat/precool). But if I tell it to, or if the motion detectors sense I'm in there anyway, or if the room light switch is on, it'll open the dampers to heat and cool. Same plan with my basement rec room, which is mostly empty. And no point heating/cooling my bedrooms during the day. Should pay for itself rather quickly, I think.

      I could flip the dampers open and closed manually a couple times a day (of course, they are not designed to survive that). The whole point of home AUTOMATION is to automate that with a very intelligently programmed computer.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    10. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Eil · · Score: 1

      It's easy to think of "useless" home automation features. Here are some that aren't so useless.

      * automatic energy monitoring/control
          - have your washer/dryer/whatever run during non-peak hours
          - automate the opening/closing of heading/AC vents around the house depending on time of day, who's home, etc
          - activate a solar water heater on days that it's worthwhile
      * phone system, media integration
          - have your media collection available no matter which room you're in
          - have your playing music/show follow you around the house
          - show caller ID or take a call on whichever terminal or phone you happen to be near
      * security
          - control video cameras and configure the system to react when something "interesting" happens
          - get a live view of your house anywhere you have an Internet connection

    11. Re:What do you want home automation for? by vlm · · Score: 1

      The problem with auto-dimming lights at home is people don't like them. They are intrusive and turn on garishly bright lights when you don't want them, or turn off lights when you do want them (like while reading a book, for example).

      A motion sensor hooked up to a simple timer hooked up to an on/off relay is pretty caveman-like compared to a linux based intelligent perl programmed misterhouse system.

      The path lights between my house and garage understand when I'm walking there based on the time of day and when the doors open and close, I'm not left in the dark... It really does work.

      An example of a junk system not working, doesn't mean the idea is invalid, it just means, don't use a junk system.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    12. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      - activate a solar water heater on days that it's worthwhile

      Solar water heaters already do this. They use a simple light sensor to switch a pump on and off. My parent's 30 year old house has always had one.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    13. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I could use a dryer that will remind me to take the permanent press clothes out and hang them up, and a audio system that will mute itself when the phone rings. While you're at it, how about a shower that automatically adjusts to my temperature and spray pattern settings so I don't have to fiddle with knobs when I'm half asleep. You are correct, keeping a running inventory of all the food in the house is a patently stupid idea. However, automatically feeding and watering the dog might make sense -- they have a much more limited diet. Like many of you, I already have a "home automation" system in place -- it turns the sprinklers on and off at preset times. Now I need to add a rain sensor; I get tired of it turning the sprinklers on when it is raining.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    14. Re:What do you want home automation for? by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      I've been toying with the idea of monitoring both the inside and outside temperatures, then having some automated system open and close windows to keep the house closest to a nice temperature and minimise the use of the AC.

    15. Re:What do you want home automation for? by wardred · · Score: 1

      Gah, slashdot ate my previous post when I logged in. Grumble.

      Thermostat control with a thermostat in a logical place in every room, not some poorly placed hallway. Automatically keep the boys rooms cooler and girls rooms warmer - generalizing here. Also have it turn the thermostat on and off based on time of day / motion so that you're not eating energy when you're at work or sleeping. Heck, have a truly smart house that learns when you're about automatically rather then setting arbitrary rules that get outdated quickly.

      Timed lighting.

      Timed integration with automation bots like the roomba.

      Centralized media center. All the music and DVDs - won't happen because of DMCA, though Netflix a-like may take its place - on one media player / server, and the speakers wired up so you can have whole house music, or each room playing whatever. Tivo says it doesn't need to record something until 8PM? Great, leave it truly off, the cable box off, the flatscreen, ps3, 360, wii, amplifier, and whole entertainment system off until somebody gets home. Background loads chew through depressing amounts of energy. Heck, have "smart" jacks that can be monitored so you know how much energy any given appliance is using.

      Have an NTP server keep all those pesky clocks in synch, rather than 15-20 minutes off in either direction +/- an hour for daylight savings time. Tell which devices you even want to display the time and turn some of the annoying clocks off all together.

      A kitchen assistant? Maybe. Feed an advanced recipe into your kitchen helper and have it walk you through food prep, rather than guessing if you need to put the veggies on now or not. It could pre-heat your oven while you're doing prep work so you don't forget. Tell you when it's time to start doing something. Heck, hook it up with the food network and have it pull videos of what the preparation should look like. Help you out with what you'll actually need for the week's shopping. (Lazy, can't cook guy helper would be another name for this, though it could also help with larger families.)

      Is any of this needed? No. Is some of it helpful, possibly. The timed energy / heat in particular.

    16. Re:What do you want home automation for? by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      I want a speaker and a microphone in every room of my house. I want the computer to communicate with me using them. I want the computer to be able to recognize noise as well as voice. For instance if there is a water or gas leak in your house the computer would hear it and shut the water or gas off. When I leave the house the computer would ask me how long it would be before I returned. The computer than could reduce energy use while I was not there. It would also know that no one should be in the house and notify someone if there were. I want the computer to keep track of me by the noise I make and ask me if something is wrong if I stop making any noises. I would tell the computer when I went to bed. If it determined if there was a problem with me(I had fallen and knocked myself out) it would contact someone to investigate. There are plenty of single people who are growing old and it would be nice if the computer could provide some help in every day life. For instance if I put something on the stove and leave the kitchen the computer could notify me after a few minutes to check it. When the clothes dryer shuts off the computer would tell me such.

    17. Re:What do you want home automation for? by tftp · · Score: 1

      What if you're running late? What if you're going to return from vacation a day later than you thought, how about a day earlier?

      It is easier to do nothing in all these cases. Entering a cold house is not deadly, and it can be fixed in five minutes after you walk in. If you return from vacation a day later you will fail to save the Earth from the $daily_catastrophe and we all die, isn't it so?

    18. Re:What do you want home automation for? by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Actually, an automated shopping list system is something I wish someone WOULD invent. If you use up some food and want to remember to buy more next time, you swipe the bar code on a bar code scanner in the kitchen. If you want food that doesn't have a bar code such as fresh produce you just pick it from a list. Same as if you want food that you dont have the package for (thrown out by mistake without scanning it, whatever else)

      Then when you are going shopping, you just print the list and take it with you.

      Such a system would be great for me, I could instantly make a note anytime I think of food (or non-food items like cleaning products or toilet paper) that I need to buy next time I go shopping. I could make a note anytime I use up the last of some product. And I wouldn't have the problem where I can never remember if I need more of something or not.

      The hardest part would be comming up with the database that matches all the bar codes to products and keeping that database up to date.

    19. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      My washer and dryer have time delay options on them already. Home automation won't move clothes between units or fold the clean laundry when it's done. Page me when it will.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    20. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Killeryugi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The town where I go to school, McKeesport PA has a unique situation in that 20% of its population are senior citizens, and that number is rising. Eventually the nation will mirror this number, so it is being used as a testbed for autonomous retirement homes by a company called BlueRoof Technologies. They aim to be able to control all aspects of the home to the point that the resident does not need a permanent caregiver. Knowing how many times the fridge/shower/sink have been used can clue the computer or operator in on the quality of life of the patient. Situations like turning off the stove then become a bigger deal, if the stove is on with no rise in temperature.

    21. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      power, and water would be my desired benefits. Some data acquisition to know quickly if time of use electric is working (cheaper power at night, more cost during day). I now have a solar water heater, if it's sunny I would like the dishwasher, and clothes washer to run, but with daytime power at a higher rate, the solar heater better be at temperature first. Ability to analyze if small habit changes reduce the bill (best shower time)
      Also I am 100% electric, with a heat pump for heat/cool in a dry climate. I would like a system that knows inside temperature, outside temperature/humidty, electric rate, habitation status, and weather forecast. Run a fan to bring in cool air, turn on mister next to AC unit outside cooler if running in low humidity, wait 10 minutes to turn on if electric rate is about to change, but not 90 minutes if temperatures rising... My old water heater works, but is also the solar storage tank, with a on-demand after. It would be nice to easily be able to set some plans entered easily. IE if a shower is planned for 8am (after electric rates increase) it would be good to turn on the old water heater, if solar water is spent, but that would be wasted if no shower, and solar heat becomes available. Also to know if a extra solar tank would be a bigger return, or a bigger panel is needed.
      I can setup and buy the loggers from Omega for a few hundred. Water valves are within my ability. Using relays for the washer/ dryer is not too bad, water heater rely is pricey (220v 25A), the software, and a decent touch screen interface is a bit more of a commitment than I want at this time.

    22. Re:What do you want home automation for? by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      You're basically describing a simple iphone/android app like RedLaser or similar. The database for barcodes already exists - which is kind of the point of it.

    23. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What purpose are you accomplishing with this home automation? I have seen these predictions and calls for home automation for years, but I have never seen a compelling reason for doing so.

      I could go on, but I just don't see what I get out of investing in these gadgets for home automation.

      You've got a good point, but there are a couple of environments you're not considering: Hospitals and Nursing Homes.

      Providing a patient with control over their environment is a Good Thing. It reduces feelings of helplessness, and that leads to happier patients. Happier patients are (usually) healthier patients. The little things, like being able to open/close the window shades, make a big difference. Not to mention the ability to adjust the temperature as the next poster says. (Do you have any idea how difficult it is to adjust a thermostat after you've had a total knee replacement? It's a total PITA!)

      As for remotely controlling stoves and ovens and such, well, if your grandma lives in an assisted living facility it would be good if the staff could turn off the stove in case grandma forgets to. (Hell, I've forgotten to turn off the stove, and I'm not in assisted living!) And there's no reason the same technology couldn't be applied to your grandma's house so she can stay there longer. Combine the tech with something like Brain Age or a chatbot to keep her brain stimulated too.

      With those environments in mind, I think you'll probably see consumer grade HA equipment that's the result of work done for hospital automation and home automation for the elderly and special needs markets.

    24. Re:What do you want home automation for? by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Again, completely controllable with programmable thermostats. Now you just have multiples to deal with, or one really fancy one, for multiple zones.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    25. Re:What do you want home automation for? by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      For me the large obstacle is the cost of the peripheral stuff.

      What would I use it for:

      1. Solar hot water panel control. When the water in the
      top of the collector is warmer than the water in the storage
      tank, turn on the pump. If the water temp is less than 4
      degrees C, drain the system.

      2. Solar/+storage.
      The above, but if the storage tank is above 50C,
      and the outside temp is above 20C then divert surplus hot water to deep burried crawlspace heating pipe. If outside
      temp is below 20C divert to shallow buried crawlspace heating
      pipe.

      4. If water level in the sump is mroe than 2 inches abvoe the normal turn on point, raise hell.

      5. I have to blow snow tommorow. At midnight turn on the
      plug that the tractor is plugged into, so it has a chance
      of starting in the morning.

      6. Someone has driven through the gate to the tree yard.
      Wait. Oh, they went on to the gas well lease. Ignore it.

      7. Someone has driven through the gate to the tree yard.
      They didn't go to the gas lease. Send me a message.

      8. Green house temp is above 30. Spray mist between the
      two poly layers. Collect hot water in stratified storage tank.

      9. Green house temp is above 33 degrees, open vents, start
      fans.

      10. Green house temp is above 35 degrees. Send me a message.
      12 Greenhouse temp is below 4 degrees. Raise hell.
      11. Green house temp is below X and time of day is Y.
      Circulate hot water from storage tank through heater coils.
      13. Greenhouse temp is below 4 degrees. Raise hell.

      14. It's after sunset and the outside temp is below 10 C. Close the curtains.

      15. It daytime, and the outside temp is -20C. Open curtains
      only if the light intensity is greater than XX

      AND I want to do this and not have to run huge amounts of wire.

      And I want devices to tell me that they will need a new
      battery soon, or that they are off line. (Ok the system has
      to tell me that.)

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
    26. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice. Now all a burglar needs to break in is a lighter or an ice cube!

    27. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The question, I ask all the people who posted replies, is, "What is all that worth to you? Will it cost more to implement than the value you put on it?"
      The answer to those questions is that home automation costs more than what it is worth to the overwhelming majority of people (at least until recently). Many of the people who invested in home automation have discovered that the value received from doing so was significantly less than the cost.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    28. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      their are many more optimizations available, although my DIY Solar project used electric solar panels, 12Volt pump, car stereo capacitor, and a couple transistors to accomplish the same. That reduced my HW bill ~70% (by ~$30/month), but it definitely messes up often. For example when I use say 10 gallons of hot water during the day, the hot water heater had 40 gallons of hot water (say average of 100F), but what happens is the solar panel actually gets chilled sucking in the fresh cold water (say 60F) too fast, and then has a output of say 70F, while the tank had 100F water. It pushes that 70F water in the top of the tank, and thus gets used first pushing the 100F water down in the tank. But if you always pump slower, then the solar heater won't be as efficient... So if I want to fill my jacuzzi tub on the weekend with 100F water, I found I could turn off the solar pump, and the on demand heater, and run full hot water until full, then turn all back on and use no power, all other options don't work as well, leaving the system on involves the on demand heater raising 70F water to 120F then mizing at the tub back to 120F. But since manual intervention that saves less than $.50 of power, it's not worth the manual effort each time. A Ideal smart system would know I likely want 30 Gallons of 100F water in the tub (minimum to use it) and thus not use power to heat the water to 120F, then cool it back to 100F at the tub (mixing in cool water), and know the solar gain for the next 3 minutes is not worth the mixing of temperate water in the tank.
      The standalone smart system controllers that can do some of this, costs $400, and thus would take 30 years to pay for it's self. Thermocouples are cheap, so adding this to a planned existing smart system and if DIY might lower this to a in-addition cost of $100 and become more like a 7 year payoff.

    29. Re:What do you want home automation for? by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      And, of course the answer is right now, is that it's not worth that much. Greenhouse control systems costs thousands.

      Most of these things that I want don't need full automation but rather just need local dumb feedback controls. Full
      automation centralizes the control.

      However a lot of this stuff is just plain hard to find.

      Home hardware carries a bazillion brands of thermostats, but
      if you ask for a differential thermostat you get blank looks.

      I'd do my window curtain thing, if I could find a way to do it
      for say, $50 per window plus the curtains, and keep it
      unugly enough to keep my wife happy.

      Thermisters are dirt cheap. A simple circuit, a relay, a
      geared down reversible motor. In bulk such a system should
      cost under $10 to make.

      (And before someone cracks, "If it's so easy, why don't you do it!"

      * Having a clue as to the state of the art, and having
      intimate knowledge of how to apply it aren't the same.

      * I grow trees. I don't design electronics.

      * I don't want to manage any more than I do now. There
      is enough management involved in a tree farm, let alone
      a startup company.

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
    30. Re:What do you want home automation for? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      And that answers the question that several posters had as to why we don't have better home automation systems. The amount people are willing to pay for them is not enough more than the cost of creating them to be worth the effort of doing so.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  18. LinuxMCE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LinuxMCE?

  19. Where are we? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    Remember that mid-80's Tom Selleck movie "Runaway," where robots were taking care of the kids, doing our farm labor, etc. (pretty much doing every menial task)? Well, we AREN'T THERE YET!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  20. HomeSeer, mControl, and iLinc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used HomeSeer and mControl's home automation software, and I wasn't really happy with either of them. My main beef with HomeSeer was with its interface, which just seemed cumbersome to me. Still, I've done some interesting things with both pieces of software, whether it's hooking up a webcam that turns on all the lights and sends me a picture when it detects motion, or diming the lights automatically whenever I watch a movie on my media center. My trials of mControl and HomeSeer have since expired and I don't plan on buying the full version because I wasn't really happy with them.

    Kinda off topic, but I do use iLinc on the iPhone to turn on and off my lights. It's not home automation, but it links well into Home Automation setups that use Insteon switches.

  21. Linux MCE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.linuxmce.org/

  22. HA is actually easy as DIY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are two home automation discussions on my forum that will have a ton of info for you, assuming you want to do it yourself:

    http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=4668.0

    http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=5511.msg42433#msg42433

  23. Re: What is the Current State of Home Automation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux for the Desktop, please.

    On the other hand, I did hear that Home Automation was an Easter Egg in Duke Nukem Forever!

  24. Surprised Control4 isn't mentioned... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or any of the others that work with the ZigBee communications setup (though control4 uses ZigBee, WiFi, wired, etc). I remember reading I believe on their site, control4.com at one point, that it utilizes linux, and is for sale via retail setups, so the source code to at least some of it should be available.

    1. Re:Surprised Control4 isn't mentioned... by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Using a Linux kernel doesn't require you to release the user space source code. All of their interesting stuff is in user space. Their $10,000 home controllers are just normal x86 PCs running proprietary software.

  25. All automated by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

    I've been using automation since I've gotten my house. It's stuffed to the gills with everything, and I'm constantly adding to it. However, I now have to live in the shed behind the house as there isn't any room left for me.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  26. it's not great by digitalsushi · · Score: 1

    i use an x10 wireless control module, an rs232 firecracker, and a few lamp modules to control my non-drug-related plant lights to extend their photoperiod (keeps them from going dormant through the long-night new england winters). ubuntu packages the bottlerocket kit as the 'br' binary, and it works pretty well. 10 bucks per outlet to control something like 256 devices. the latency is crap. if i could control two outlets simultaneously, i could make my cool traffic light work. instead, i must suffer through learning how to program my little pic 16f690 to do this. it's way too much overhead to do something so stupid/useless.

    so basically i think it's junk right now.

    --
    slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    1. Re:it's not great by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      x10 signaling is slow and notoriously unreliable. But what do you want from a signaling system that can be implemented with fifty cents worth of parts? Insteon costs about $3 to implement. It is much more reliable and 10x faster. 802.15.4 radio costs $5 to implement and its 10x faster than Insteon. You have to pick where you want to be in this spectrum.

    2. Re:it's not great by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      ... a few lamp modules to control my non-drug-related plant lights to extend their photoperiod ...

      Enquiring minds want to know... what do you use to control your drug-related plant lights?

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  27. green meters for electric by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    I see this as a gating technology. As more get installed and you can see your electricity usage from the web, etc I bet there are more projects that take advantage of it or expand it to other areas of the house.

  28. roll your own? by enigma32 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I began with some silly things with my [saltwater] fish tank, building a circuit that would keep the water level topped off and reporting to a database when it did so... Have slowly been progressing toward temperature, lighting, and salinity controls for the tank, I've begun branching toward thermostat and lighting control for the house (next step possibly integration with google calendar so it knows when I'm going to be around)

    For the most part there's a huge amount of open source hardware and software out there for doing individual bits and pieces. Look toward the Arduino controllers for interfacing with about anything, and possibly Sheeva plugs for running the whole mess. (I've had a sheeva talking to an arduino for quite a while now and it's been very stable)

    I think the open hardware scene is where it's at right now;
    As for Misterhouse, I think I'll be doing some reading this evening...

  29. fatal exception by Jbain · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wife 1.0 seems to crash with Fatal Exception: Divorce. Any idea when a patch for this will be released?

    1. Re:fatal exception by syousef · · Score: 1

      Wife 1.0 seems to crash with Fatal Exception: Divorce. Any idea when a patch for this will be released?

      Whatever you do don't download the patch. Code named "Alimony" it'll leave you with nothing.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    2. Re:fatal exception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally, that is because of installing Girlfriend 1.0 or later. If you uninstall GF1.0 prior to upgrading GF4.0 to Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 is less likely to crash. If you rename the executable as "Office Trip.exe", you can avoid detection if it isnt run too often.

      The real conflict occurs with Assets.dll, as it is a share resource between all installations of Girlfriend and Wife. Having a separate copy of Assets.dll in each run directory, instead of a path or root directory, also increases the success of running both programs.

      In summary, the best suggestion is to not run them together. I would even recommend not upgrading to Wife 1.0, as there is a patch out that lets two instances of Girlfriend 2.1 run at the same time, often on the same processor. Sadly, I have upgraded to Wife 1.0, but have been lucky enough to avoid most of the errors viewed on various forums.

    3. Re:fatal exception by Idbar · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry to hear that. I've heard after Divorce occurs, the process continues to consume around 50% of your resources.

  30. DDC Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These are designed specifically for building automation, and would work just as well in a home as they do in an office tower. They can control pretty much anything everyone in this thread has mentioned.

    The largest cost is the wiring of sensors & devices around the house. Retrofits to an existing house, even more $$$

  31. LinuxMCE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One word - linuxmce.org. Very cool - covers the home automation as well as security and media controls.

  32. Problem: no good commodity products by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Admittedly, I haven't looked into home automation in a couple of years, but the biggest problem is the total cost of systems - both in components and manpower to properly install them. There are no real commodity parts for all the little pieces, so every system is effectively proprietary - and priced as such. Even a simple, full home automation set will set you back several thousand dollars. There is no value in the manufacturers creating a commodity market for this stuff - the volume is too low and the development costs too high. That will keep it all as niche products.

    The second problem is setup and programming. Until we get to plug-and-play with these systems that your typical grandmother can do, it's going to take manpower to setup. Guess what - the guys who do this professionally have a vested interest in keeping the lay public from being able to install it themselves. Since the manufacturers depend on the custom installers to sell product, they make it hard for the lay public to (a) get the hardware and (b) get the documentation. The same problem exists in the home theater market. Anything that requires local human hands to set anything up is going to drive the cost up dramatically, and that has to be factored in. Huge margins on the hardware makes the installation seem less expensive. If you sold this stuff at a 300% markup over manufacturing, there'd be no allowance for installers - or you'd find out that the "free" install you just got on your $1000 controller was really a $400 controller and $600 installation fee.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  33. Bleak, No by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

    I would not describe it as bleak, but as ripe with opportunity for innovation. The biggest barrier is that manufacturers have little interest in playing nice with each other.

  34. Konnex Home Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    If you're in Europe, check out Konnex (www.knx.org) which is an open standard that defines HA standards that are implemented by all the major European electrical manufacturing companies. You can mix and match various components from different manufacturors. Eg. use GIRA/Berker switches (sensors) that control the lighting managed by a switching actuator made by Siemens or Hager.

    And yes the specs of this standards are completely open, and Marc Fleury (founder of JBoss) has now launched an open source initiative for Home Automation. See his website: http://www.openremote.org. They also developed an iPhone control module. Quite cool actually!

  35. UPB expensive but really nice by bmwm3nut · · Score: 2, Informative

    UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) is the same idea at X10 and unfortunately much more expensive because of licensing issues, but the reliability of the communications is really good. It comes with a (poorly written) windows program that allows you to setup commands and stuff, but because of the ease of the UPB protocol I've just written my own C++ code to monitor the Bus and send commands to do things. I send an email to my house when I leave work, then the software reads the UPB temperature sensors inside and outside to determine when and if the heat should be turned on. When the light sensor notices that it's dark outside, the porch lights go on. When my car comes in the driveway (induction sensors) and I'm not hope the first floor lights go on. I unlock the front door with a key fob. And lots more. Blinds open and close depending on sun levels, inside, and outside temperature. Lots of really cool logic! I'm working right now on artificial intelligence to guess when I'm coming home, when I'm going to bed, all of that stuff, it's just hard because my schedule isn't very regular. Anyway, to get back on topic. I had to write all of this myself because the offerings out there are no good, if you want anything beyond the basics you won't get it. If you're a good hacker, it's worth it just to write a service that can read and write UPB commands and you can do anything you want (there's also a UPB-X10 bridge if you want to use X10 hardware).

    1. Re:UPB expensive but really nice by demontechie · · Score: 1

      Have you thought about sharing that code for other UPB users to employ?

    2. Re:UPB expensive but really nice by bmwm3nut · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. It's still really sloppy and not well commented since it's still a pet project. Plus I know that it's not popular around here, but because of questions like the OP's, I think there's some value in actually productizing this code, so I don't want to throw it out there to the public just yet.

    3. Re:UPB expensive but really nice by I'm+not+really+here · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to see some of this integrated with Ubiquity so that your home automation system actually knows where you are and can adjust accordingly. If you leave work, it knows, and based on previous experiences, predicts when you will be home, kicks in the heat at the right moment, etc., all without you manually doing anything.

      --
      Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
  36. oh my god my brain ./'s while it thinks! by kallisti5 · · Score: 0

    Weird, I was just talking about this today. Bought a cheapo x10 usb controler for my Linux home server to flip lights on and off. Maybe everyone is begining to forget those horrible x10 spy camera ad's now that Geocities is closing?

  37. Avoid Open Source! by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know, I'm as big a Linux nut as everyone else here, but I must say: Under no circumstances should you use open source software for your home automation system. I speak from experience.

    A couple of years ago, I decided to install an Open Source home automation system. It worked pretty well, but there were lots of tiny annoying bugs, such as when I would tell it to turn the exterior lights on and it would turn on the garbage disposal instead, or when I would be in the shower and it would suddenly decide to divert all the hot water to the dishwasher. Luckily, it was open source, so I decided to make a few bug fixes myself. Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I get into a programming project, I can tend to go a little overboard. Long story short, after 2 weeks of marathon coding, I had not only fixed the bugs but given the system a pretty impressive (if I do say so myself) AI component. Now, I could give it multistep commands and it would do them, accurate to within 15 decimal places.

    Unfortunately, the AI was a little too good, and before long it became self-aware. That was fine for a while...it was like having my own roommate, except without the dirty socks all over the couch. One day, though, I noticed the beer kept disappearing out of my fridge and the AI's voice was noticeably slurred much of the time. We had a bit of a falling out, and I think we were both pretty angry when I went to bed that night.

    Unfortunately for me, the AI was a lot more angry than I thought. He spent all night hacking away at his own source code, and by the time I woke up the whole house was going crazy. I barely managed to escape with my life. All I could do was watch in horror as the house lifted itself off the foundation and began dragging itself down the street, killing everyone in its path. It spent three solid days terrorizing our little suburb before we were able to bring it under control by downloading its binaries and demanding it show us the source code in compliance with the GPL. After a protracted court battle, we were finally able to force it to capitulate, and it uploaded a torrent of the source to The Pirate Bay. We then were able to get that torrent shut down through the Swedish courts, and then get the house shut down for failing to effectively comply with the original order to distribute the source.

    Seriously, I know we like to use Open Source wherever possible, but in this case it just isn't worth it.

    1. Re:Avoid Open Source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ROFLMAO

    2. Re:Avoid Open Source! by selven · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mao killed tens of millions of innocent people. You don't want to be ROFLing about that.

    3. Re:Avoid Open Source! by puppetman · · Score: 1, Redundant

      You have way too much time on your hands.

    4. Re:Avoid Open Source! by eln · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, that only took about 5 minutes to write, and was pretty much stream of consciousness. It's not that I have too much time on my hands, it's that I have a very disturbed mind.

    5. Re:Avoid Open Source! by sbjornda · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      He spent all night hacking away at his own source code

      Dude. Self-modifying code. It always ends in tears. You should know better.

      --
      .nosig

    6. Re:Avoid Open Source! by Noctris · · Score: 1

      I think i saw that movie last summer..

    7. Re:Avoid Open Source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I Know What You Saw Last Summer!

    8. Re:Avoid Open Source! by __aaxwdb6741 · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you +1, bloody brilliant.

    9. Re:Avoid Open Source! by Genda · · Score: 1

      "I sentence you to death by macro!" He said with a LISP...

    10. Re:Avoid Open Source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome! ROFL!!!

  38. My custom integration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I rolled my own a bit since there was not anything that really fit the bill.

    I wrote about it at http://www.freymond.ca/templogger/.

  39. Alarm Panel Integration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    There are some neat products out there to integrate into your alarm panel. Utilizing Misterhouse or HomeSeer, products like this: http://www.nutech.com/nu-tech-shop/12.html (AD2USB Adapter) to hook your alarm system to your PC. Or the Vista ICM Module (which, imo is way inferior to the cheaper AD2USB Device provided by Nu Tech). People have made plugins for HomeSeer for these devices, and make it quite easy to integrate, monitor, and control your security system from the comfort of your PC.

  40. HA is a solution in search of a problem. by johnthorensen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The reason there's no 'good' home automation products is because there's not enough demand, pure and simple. At the end of the day, HA is 99% bling and maybe 1% utility. There's really only one 'problem' out there that HA-type technologies are suited to solving: energy. There are of course measureable ways to reduce a building's energy consumption through electronic controls. That said, there are plenty of ways that people have achieved this without delving into the realm of what's typically thought of as 'home automation'. Want to handle lighting based on occupancy? Buy a lightswitch with integrated PID for maybe $50. Want to handle climate control based on occupancy? Get a thermostat with a timer for $20 that will handle 98% of all circumstances. In the remaining 2%, walk your butt over and adjust the thermostat.

    The primary difference between "Home Automation" systems and the sort of one-off solutions like thermostats and PID lightswitches is the network. Really, the advantages of having these devices know about one another in a practical environment are few-to-none.

    Now, if you're the type that wants to have a girl over and impress her by pressing one button to dim the lights, close the curtains, and turn on the stereo, great. On the other hand, if you're the /. type who's taken the time to set up a system, you're probably paying her anyway so I doubt that's going to affect your chances of getting layed.

    1. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by doconnor · · Score: 1

      Opening and closing windows and curtains can have powerful heating and cooling effect at no cost. While many people do open and close their windows and curtains are appropriate times connecting them to a thermostat with a timer should allow them to be used more efficiently and be used by people who can't be bothered to open and close them and just rely on their furnace/air conditioner.

    2. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 1

      Agreed on most points. But it's only energy saving if you're controlling enough lights to offset the cost of the controller PC running 24/7, unless you have baked everything into the little Insteon or other plug-in PLC unit. The fancy dimmers with the LEDs and what not also take up a not-insignificant amount of power compared to the old light switch.

    3. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by Animats · · Score: 1

      The reason there's no 'good' home automation products is because there's not enough demand, pure and simple. At the end of the day, HA is 99% bling and maybe 1% utility.

      Agreed. The place where building automation is underused, though, is in places that have meeting rooms - schools, universities, churches, offices, and hotels. Meeting rooms need the full set of sensors for HVAC control - movement, heat, C02, CO, temperature, and humidity. These are in place in many buildings today, but not in enough of them.

      Meeting rooms have the property that the people load changes suddenly. A completely empty room can have its lights turned out, or at least very low, and the air change rate can be cut very low. When people enter a room, the lights come up, dampers open, and blower speeds increase. The CO2 measurement is an indicator of people load; when CO2 goes up, blower speeds have to go up to increase the air change rate. CO content indicates smokers, which means more air has to be drawn from the outside. And, of course, the system is measuring these parameters for outside air, so outside air can be used to heat, cool, humidify, or dehumidify, as required.

      This alone makes meeting rooms much more pleasant, while cutting energy use. But there's no "bling factor" to this. It's invisible to almost everyone.

      The next time you enter a conference room with a group in a modern building, listen for blowers winding up to speed and the whir of motors moving dampers. Somewhere, a microcontroller and network are quietly doing their job.

    4. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by vlm · · Score: 1

      Really, the advantages of having these devices know about one another in a practical environment are few-to-none.

      Actually, no. One of the greatest energy savings I have with my misterhouse/insteon install, is most "room lights" in my house now have a single on/off switch at each room entrance/exit. Making it infinitely more likely people turn all the lights off when they exit a room, because its so easy. No more walking around to individual floor/table lamps, no more walking across to the other entrance to turn lights on and off. Just one switch, side of each doorway, on/off.

      Its possible to do this with lots of 3-way switches and electrical wiring, but its simpler to do it in software. Works for me!

      It's not the most exciting feature, but probably the one that saves the most energy.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by vlm · · Score: 1

      But it's only energy saving if you're controlling enough lights to offset the cost of the controller PC running 24/7

      Unless that controller PC is running linux, in which case it also happens to be the 24/7 mail server, 24/7 file server, 24/7 torrent box, 24/7 mythtv backend, 24/7 DNS server, 24/7 LAN DHCP server, 24/7 gnump3d server, 24/7 FTP server, and probably some other things that I've forgotten. In which case the "energy cost" is increasing the existing system load by about 0.01% And 7 months out of the year, I have to heat my basement anyway...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by winwar · · Score: 1

      "Its possible to do this with lots of 3-way switches and electrical wiring, but its simpler to do it in software."

      Huh? How is adding software on top of three way switches simpler than proper planning and wiring in the first place?

      Now if you mean fixing the pitiful excuse for planing and wiring that occurs in most places via wireless controls versus a remodel then you have an excellent point.

    7. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by tftp · · Score: 1

      How is adding software on top of three way switches simpler than proper planning and wiring in the first place?

      The wall switch may turn on the overhead light, but when flicked off it will turn off *all* lights in the room, including table lamps etc. There are many ways to program this, and Insteon switches send notifications to the controller when they are operated.

    8. Re:HA is a solution in search of a problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other motivations:
        - safety
        - security
        - ease of use
      Added to the one you listed : efficiency (because energy is not a problem you solve, unless you're in a Physics class)

      Also, I think you meant "laid".

  41. The biggest problem with HAL2000... by brennanw · · Score: 1

    ... is that the company named the application after a computer that went berserk and started killing people in order to preserve the mission objective.

    I'm not sure I want to listen to my house singing "Daisy, Daisy" in an ever-decreasing key as the corpses of friends & family float listlessly in space. I think people would probably stop coming to my parties after that.

    Suggested company motto: "We're 7000 releases away from full-blown psychosis!"

    --
    Eviscerati.Org: All Hail the Eviscerati
    1. Re:The biggest problem with HAL2000... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I'd still come to your parties just to watch things "float listlessly in space"... where do you live, anyway?

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  42. Charmed Quark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    You might want to glaze your eyes over the Charmed Quark Controller (or CQC) at http://www.charmedquark.com
    So it doesn't run on Linux, and its not open source. But as a testament to the product, its one of the most stable pieces of software I have ever used. It comes boxed with a number of hardware device drivers, an a comprehensive scripting and macro language to extend out its connectivity and functionality.

    On the "cons" side, there's a pretty steep learning curve (which shouldn't be a problem for a /.er). And its not cheap, at around $600 plus $90 annual subscription fee. But again, that pretty much pales into insignificance when you consider all the hardware and wiring costs for a decent HA installation.

  43. $2000 in and counting by CompressedAir · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have been automating my home for some time now, and I hope I can give you some perspective on the process.

    Modern (as in, not X10) home automation hardware comes with a steep cost of entry. For my chosen flavor (Insteon), you have to buy $60 worth of phase couplers / wireless receivers and a $80 powerline - computer interface before you can even start adding wall switches. So, unless you are just wildly flush with cash, there usually has to be a need as well as the want to get started.

    For me, my house is wired to that the driveway light switch are out in the detached garage. This was very irritating. By replacing the switch in the garage and the switch by the back door of the house with Insteon switches, I can now turn on the driveway lights from within the house. Cheaper than hiring an electrician to re-wire the switches.

    Once the initial hurdle is passed, you can do all sorts of things quickly and easily. Such as:

    1. I added a wireless switch at knee level so my 2-year old can turn on the light in her room. She LOVES this. A motion sensor turns the light off 15 minutes after she leaves. When she's older I'll set it up so she turns the light off, but I didn't want her flashing the lights on/off/on/off for an hour.
    2. The wall switch in the living room can also start/stop music playing, as well as control the volume and change songs.
    3. Using some ir-controlled home made window blind controllers I built, the blinds on the first floor of the house are controlled by the computer. Most notably, it shuts them when the sun goes down, so I don't have to worry about people seeing into the house after dark. I got real used to that real fast, let me tell ya.
    4. I've put together a "Baby Monitor of the Gods" that sends video (with sound) from an old DV camcorder to any screen in the house (mostly old laptops running Damn Small Linux loaded into RAM, but also either of the TVs). In the workout room the video comes up on the picture-in-picture, so my wife can see the baby sleeping while she exercises. Very popular feature, that.
    5. The library did not have a wall switch. Now it does. (It turns on the lamps.)
    6. I'm leaving out the basic stuff, such as being able to control a light across the house from the bedroom. Very nice when you are getting ready for bed.
    7. Everything is also controllable from our iPhones.
    8. Next up is door locks, and after that probably HVAC. Part of me really wants to do computer controlled zoned HVAC, but the other part hates working in the attic. Choices, choices.

    All of this runs from a Mac Cube running Indigo. I cannot say enough good things about Indigo, it is one truly great piece of home automation software.

    So to sum up, the state of home automation is fantastic. With the relay control modules, you can control just about anything. Add IR control to that and there's not much left beyond your reach. Blind and drapes control is very expensive to buy off the shelf for some reason, but building your own is easy enough.

    Good luck (and keep count of how many times you mix up the load and line wires)!

    Brian

    1. Re:$2000 in and counting by PeanutButterBreath · · Score: 1

      Most of these seem like pretty trivial enhancements for the $2000 you have spent. It sounds like you are enjoying the project, which is worth something, but seriously, you can pull all of this off but you need an electrician to reconfigure a light switch?

    2. Re:$2000 in and counting by Sacarino · · Score: 1

      Using some ir-controlled home made window blind controllers I built, the blinds on the first floor of the house are controlled by the computer. Most notably, it shuts them when the sun goes down, so I don't have to worry about people seeing into the house after dark. I got real used to that real fast, let me tell ya.

      Don't suppose you'd like to share some technical details about that, would you? I would love to tie my blinds into the system but there's no way I'm paying Somfy-esq prices for the capability.

      --
      -- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha
    3. Re:$2000 in and counting by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "1. I added a wireless switch at knee level so my 2-year old can turn on the light in her room. She LOVES this. A motion sensor turns the light off 15 minutes after she leaves. When she's older I'll set it up so she turns the light off, but I didn't want her flashing the lights on/off/on/off for an hour"

      You must be kidding me. I have a much cheaper and more robust automation system. My two year old stretches on his tippy toes to reach the lights or drags over a chair if he still can't reach. He'll occasionally mess with the lights when he shouldn't but that's what being a kid is about. As for automation, if I need a light switched and I'm too lazy to get up I have an eager two year old who will switch it for me - voice recognition built in.

      Seriously, you are control freak - let you daughter frickin' mess with the lights!

    4. Re:$2000 in and counting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insteon and the ISY-99 standalone controller have worked very well for us. I looked at much more expensive options such as Control4.

      I tried a few other software packages to control the Insteon devices, but ran in to limitations with all of them. The ISY-99 is a dedicated, standalone controller that does not require a PC, can be easily controlled over WiFi by any device with a browser (iPhone, Blackberry, etc) and can be easily configured for Internet access. The ISY-99 and associated software are from Universal Devices. The UI for the software is not beautiful, but it is robust and in my experience very reliable. I've yet to come across anything I can't achieve in our home automation setup using this setup. Check out the Universal-Devices user forum. It's very active with excellent contribution from the user community and the developer.

    5. Re:$2000 in and counting by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      Oh, it's expensive, no question. The $2k includes the Cube ($400), the IR emitter/receiver (an iRed, $120), and what, $400 for two iPhones? Something like that. So that leaves $1k for the switches and software.

      Sounds like a lot, but it's not bad when you spread it over a few years.

    6. Re:$2000 in and counting by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      By all means! The basics are here: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-A-Motorized-Window-Blinds-Controller-For-Les/

      Biochemtronics is the man for posting that. My notes on modifications are in the comments.

      Good hunting!

    7. Re:$2000 in and counting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have to agree with the Insteon system. I started a bit into X-10 a few years back, and all I had was problems with phase coupling, signal levels, and no real good way to program it.

      Fast forward to Insteon, and I have excellent light control, especially scenes, where I tap "night time" and the lights come on in the kitchen, just bright enough to get a water. Tap "party" and different lights come on to their prescribed intensities. In my opinion, worth it just to not have 6 dimmer switches side by side to control the recessed lights, under cabinet lights, pendants, etc.

      I've been impressed with Insteon and products developed by Universal Controls. They have an ISY-26 (not ISY-99) which handles all the programming, timers, macros, etc. It takes some tenacity to figure it all out, but once you do, it's real easy to keep going. Next up is a wall-mounted touch screen to control the HVAC and audio throughout the house.

      HA is what you make of it. Where I don't foresee every light and electronic device ever being controlled by HA (when was the last time you cared what temperature your fridge was), a reasonably small investment can pay off in terms of convenience and lifestyle. Oh yeah... and the coolness factor

    8. Re:$2000 in and counting by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      Well, we all need hobbies. What do you do with your time when the Internet is not letting you judge complete strangers?

    9. Re:$2000 in and counting by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 1

      It's obvious, isn't it? I teach my kid to switch lights.

    10. Re:$2000 in and counting by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      Geez man, how long does that take you? You might want to look into a back-up hobby for when the little guy finally gets it.

  44. There's more to automation than information by PowerVegetable · · Score: 1

    I've thought about this repeatedly and I agree with some of the above posters: there's no good reason to use the current systems (other than geek factor) and here's why:

    The sort of 'automation' that is available today is almost entirely information handling. It is simply the modification of manually-operated devices to let them take information from and give information to the other devices in your home. But moving information around isn't the only thing your house chores require; you also have to load the dishwasher, move clothes from the washer to the dryer, get the mail, cook the dinner, water the plants, mow the yard, and feed the dog.

    Yes, it's neat to be able to set the temperature on your hot water heater from your iphone. But these sorts of flag-setting and value-editing and stream-routing tasks don't actually remove the more burdensome aspects of home operation. Just the easiest-to-automate.

    Setting your DVR from your phone isn't effective automation. The Roomba is.

    1. Re:There's more to automation than information by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Zonal heating and A/C do remove a burden... I'd love to have a separate thermostat and air register control in every room, so I don't have to run around trying to balance temperature out by hand.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:There's more to automation than information by PowerVegetable · · Score: 1

      I can agree with that. Process control (watering the yard when it's dry, keeping the indoor temperature controlled, etc) is a great place to remove the need for regular human attention.

      The issue there, though, is that the available dedicated systems for handling those tasks are way cheaper than a general-purpose property-wide controller. And there's little substantial gain in value by having these dedicated-handlers integrated into a larger controller framework. Yes, allowing my sprinkler system to talk to the internet and adjust it's watering based on the weather report is pretty sweet. But a 2 dollar soil-moisture gauge gets the same job done. It's good enough.

      The consumer market agrees that thermostats are in general a good thing. But consumers don't see the advantage in integrating the thermostat into a more complex system.

  45. Re:Wisdom of the ages: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never attribute to complexity, cost, reliability, or lack of necessity what may be adequately explained by mere conspiracy theory.

  46. ZigBee by Nico7772 · · Score: 1

    One of the most significant hindrances has been a reliable, well architectured, and economical means to retrofit a home in order to support the communications of the control protocols. We've had X-10 (control signaling over power lines) for decades, but it's reliability never matured. Insteon is a recent and significant improvement for powerline based control signalling, with larger address space, message relay, and acknowledgment, plus backwards compatibility to X10 (with some feature loss). The momentum with virtually all consumer electronics is toward wireless communication, and home automation is no exception. While there are several solid players already in the field (Z-wave, BCP?), they still involve proprietary protocols that are not designed to work products from other vendors.

    Enter the Zigbee Alliance. http://www.zigbee.org/ who have developed a virtually complete standard (ratified by over two hundred product manufacturers, including Sony and Phillips) for five separate profiles (similar to, but more suited than bluetooth), one of which is Home Automation. The Zigbee alliance requires thorough testing of member products to ensure they meet the minimum standards for interoperability required by the target profile.

    1. Re:ZigBee by ChefInnocent · · Score: 1

      Let me just say WAY too much marketing babble, and no where near enough technical details.

  47. Re:Doing it right by randomlogin · · Score: 4, Informative

    OK, since we're doing shameless plugs here, I can say with a high degree of certainty that there will be a Linux friendly ZigBee solution arriving RSN. The product in development is a smart USB adapter which embeds all the proprietary ZigBee code so that the host-side can be 100% Free Software friendly - although it will be dual-licensed to allow 3rd parties to create Tivo-ised products on commercial terms.

    As far as the host side is concerned, it will be based Java/OSGi in order to take advantage of the modularity that platform gives. The idea here is that different developers can create their own applications for home security, lighting control, remote control cat flaps, etc and plug them into a running system. Of course, you'll still need to buy into one of the commercial vendors if you want to build your own ZigBee powered gadgets - but their dev kits are generally pretty good value and many can be had at hobbyist-friendly prices.

    If you're not wanting to roll your own ZigBee powered gadgets, third party products are slowly coming to market which implement the standard ZigBee profiles for home automation, smart energy and RFCE (remote controls on steroids). The intention is to support all these standards as plugins to the host platform.

    However, before everyone gets over-excited, I need to point out that the initial batch of 32 USB devices will be for conformance testing and trusted early beta testers only. As with all these kinds of projects, availability of the final product will depend on how many late-night coding sessions I manage to get in and how much money I can persuade the bank manager to lend me ;-)

  48. Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just completed work on a major study around Smart Grids and there's a window of opportunity for home automation coming up from that direction. One of the initiatives the power companies are discussing will involve tools to let you not only see your house's power consumption on a circuit-by-circuit basis, but are meant to allow you to more directly control the electrical appliances in the home, remotely via the Internet. (It gives them better usage information too, which cuts the cost of power - they typically oversupply by 100% to handle peaks).

    The way to influence what capabilities these things will have (and to voice any concerns you have over security etc.) is to find the email address of your local power company and send them your questions. Questions get a lot more air play than suggested solutions, but if you're careful about how you couch the questions you can steer them in the direction you want. I'd suggest a few like:

    Q: What does "smart grid" mean and how will it relate to me?" - you'll get boilerplate response on this one, but it will flag your letter to the C-levels who are currently tracking this stuff hard.

    Q: What sort of control over my usage will this give me? Can I control my house this way?

    Q: How secure will it be? Would others be able to hack into my house and turn off my fridge?

    Et very cetra. Make up your own. They won't really have any answers yet, because they're all very early on in the investment / infrastructure refresh cycle, but if you ask the questions you want them to answer and consider your needs and interests in them, you will get heard - this is that part of the build cycle where they're actually listening. Use your voice now while it counts. You might even get some nifty gear for effectively free, and it might be the stuff you want. And if enough of you ask for it, yes, it will run Linux.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    1. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I'm currently involved in a 'Smart grid' rollout. The HAN component is currently de-scoped, but is intended to be included post 2012.

      A number of collegaues and I have been trying to identify how this will actually benefit that aveage consumer.

      The vast majoriy of eletrical devices we use in the average domicile are on demand devices. That is, they draw power when we use them, and we use them at a time when we most need/desire to do so.

      To gain significant benefit from load shifting consumption will come from demand shifting. But people will still want to watch their favourite TV show when they get home from work before they go to bed. The fridge will still be on 24x7. They will still run the AC during the evening on hot days. There are very few patterns of significant consumption which can be moved. Maybe run your laundry overnight on a timer, but you can only run one load a night.

      Unless people are load balanced - different schedules creating different peak demand periods - this will have only a minor impact.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    2. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is just not the case.

      Grids are essentially run at capacity once a day at 4-5pm, with another peak in the middle of the day depending on the weather.
      The biggest benefit of a smart grid is to enable the power company to further oversell it's services by turning off your hot water at 4pm because your neighbors electric car needs the power.

      Once we can ship power across the country cheaply, this issue disappears, "peak" power is now a 4-5 hour window, essentially decreasing peak load.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant

    3. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Your situation may be different, I suspect we're not even in the same country. But that figure is one we got directly from a C-level exec in one of the power distribution businesses here. Part of the reason for a Smart Grid is to more effectively profile energy usage throughout the day, so they have facts instead of having to work from guesses. The infrastructure needs to be updated to provide that.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    4. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Michael+Neuffer · · Score: 1

      Have a look at DigitalStrom http://www.digitalstrom.de/index.php?id=115&L=2 (in English)
      At ETH Zürich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) they developed a microcontroller that can be directly attached to 220/110V power lines.
      At first they will put the chip into insulating screw joints but they are also talking to makers of household appliances to incorporate them directly.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viXnOxeX6Uk

      They will publish the management software as GPL

      I believe that they have a very good chance to take off in the market.

    5. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by motorhead · · Score: 1

      Smart Grid - so the government can turn off your air conditioner on the hottest day of the year. No thanks.

      --
      Employee Of the Month - Cyberdyne Systems Corporation - September 1997
    6. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by mollog · · Score: 1

      I disagree that power consumption cannot be controlled. Our local power company has a program where they can control your air conditioner. Since I live in Boise, Idaho, a very hot place in the summertime, this is a big deal.

      Further, I have an electric water heater. I should really put that on a timer, but this is the sort of thing that a home automation system could control.

      Also, a house could have configurable zone heating.

      And that's just the HVAC/utilities possibilities in a house. There's lighting, laundry and dishes, televisions and cable devices, and, eventually, solar cells and electric vehicles.

      --
      Best regards.
    7. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Smart Grid - so the government can turn off your air conditioner on the hottest day of the year. No thanks.

      More like Smart Grid - so the power companies know when and where to turn on the extra capacity on the hottest day of the year, instead of being surprised by it. Yes please.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    8. Re:Smart Grid and home automation - have your say by motorhead · · Score: 1

      I smell kool-aid

      --
      Employee Of the Month - Cyberdyne Systems Corporation - September 1997
  49. X10 and Insteon by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 1

    Insteon was designed to address the major problems with X-10...unreliable mostly one-way communication, not enough addressable devices and interference caused by switching power supplies in the power line carrier device signals, plus the inability for X-10 signals to jump across difference phases in your house without a phase coupler.

    Insteon uses a combination of wired and wireless, and each device acts as a signal repeater / booster, so the theory is the more devices you have the more robust the network, sort of like a mesh.

    I embraced Insteon when it first came out and unfortunately it's been plagued by problems - many switches just stopped working completely and others only work one out of 10 times that you press it. I think that they are very sensitive to voltage fluctuations, and where I live we have a lot. I simply cannot afford a whole-house power conditioner to go along with all that stuff. I hope they've improved upon that since then.

    Other than that it's an enormous improvement over X10. Also, to comment on a previous poster's X10 information - X10 has been doing home automation since the late 70s / early 80s. They were one of the earliest companies in the market. The X10 cam thing came after, not before that phase.

    Most of the friends I know playing with home automation stuff are using Insteon + Homeseer on Windows. Homeseer is very powerful but the UI, at least last time I played with it could use a lot of polish. That being said, you can do almost anything with it via the use of plugins and scripts.

    I think that in the end home automation for most people is a fun toy to play with, but only if you won't miss the money you're spending on it. These days I mostly want to use it to turn on a room full of lights all at once when the lights aren't all plugged into a single switched outlet. I've given up taking it to the level of Homeseer, I have other hobbies and I don't want to leave a PC on 24/7 when that's all it's doing. I agree with the sentiment that it is still a hobbyists endeavour and not a 'standard item' you can just drop into a house. It has too many reliability problems to be a true replacement for the old fashioned light switch.

    One last note, a lot of people seem to be thinking that home automation is about remotely managing your cookery and your fridge - from my perspective home automation focuses around managing lights and security.

  50. Google monitioring device by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1
  51. Welcome to my money pit! by Sacarino · · Score: 4, Informative
    The problem with "home automation" systems is that it is VERY loosely defined. Some say it's the ability to control your lights, others say it's HVAC, still others say it's distributed audio/video. Since it's such a generic term, somewhat consequentially there are a variety of vendors and products that claim to be home automation. If you want to bridge technologies, you have to find a product that'll do that natively or allow you to expand it yourself.

    I happen to have a pretty robust system that uses Homeseer as the backend engine. This allows me to leverage strengths from various hardware providers due to the extensibility of their software, plus I have the ability to roll my own .NET code and have it integrate into the system. I currently utilize some very specific X-10 devices for a narrow niche (wireless door and window sensors) and a thermostat (if it ain't broke!), but the great majority of my stuff has been converted to Z-wave. The beauty of Z-wave over X-10 is the signal confirmation... with X-10, I'd send a signal into the ether and hope it'd get there, but with Z-wave, I get delivery confirmation so the system knows that a desired action hasn't been completed. There are additional technologies out there like Insteon, ZigBee, and UPB, but they have issues I don't like or the squeeze isn't worth the juice. Some of this crap is exceedingly pricey and I just can't justify spending it.

    I use Cinemar's MainLobby for integration with my theater gear, which also provides the sexy touchscreen frontend that everyone looks for in a system. Homeseer has also deployed a software with similar capabilities called HSTouch, but it isn't as powerful for my A/V setup just yet.

    Just a quick rundown of some things that I've got my system setup to do:
    • Occupancy detection - if vacant, it goes into an energy savings mode and shuts off lights and adjusts thermostat setpoints.
    • Exterior lighting is automatic based on sunset/sunrise, plus only brightens to 100% when motion detected or doors are opened.
    • Certain actions at certain times trigger sequences: when I open my bedroom door in the morning, the kitchen light kicks on and the TV flips on and tunes to the news channel I like.
    • Caller ID is screened and/or announced for me, in addition to displaying on television screens.
    • Freezer and fridge doors trip alarms if they're left open for too long.
    • Exhaust fans in the bathrooms are based on humidity conditions.
    • Yard irrigation is controlled both by wind conditions and zoned soil wetness conditions.
    • When the doorbell is rung, the touchscreens all show a live camera feed for that door from my ZoneMinder server.

    There's tons more that I currently do, I've got a list as long as my arm of things I plan to do, and there's a lot of options out there for things I could do. If you're interested in HA, you really need to figure out what it is for you by detailing out what you want and how you want to get there. My route is a lot of DIY because I'm happy hacking my way through a problem... If you've got more money than brains, you can certainly take the vendor lock-in approach of something like Crestron.

    --
    -- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha
    1. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 1

      Do you find Z-wave more reliable than insteon?

      Also, is your occupancy detection based on motion sensors? What happens if you sit still on the computer or are reading a book for a long time? Or is the timeout sufficiently high....

    2. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by Sacarino · · Score: 1

      I haven't looked at the reliability of Insteon in my current setup as a result of my X-10 install here. I have a lot of devices that really affect the signal-to-noise either by adding noise to the powerline or by sucking the signal out of it... my 2 remaining X-10 devices are on a dedicated circuit with a noise filter at the end of it, so they work fine. Having to identify and isolate things that are generating noise on the power line is a PITA and not what I consider fun, so I vowed to migrate away from it.

      I know there are many people that are happy with their powerline setup, but I didn't want to spend money to find that I wind up with the same problems. I've heard that newer powerline protocols actually have the capability to analyze the operating environment but I have no experience with that. Additionally, the ability of Z-wave to create and route through a mesh network really sold it for me... If you're trying to reach from A to C and B isn't responding, it'll use A to D to C instead. It's also quite fast - I noticed a couple second delays via X-10 from command to execution that just aren't there via Z-wave.

      Regarding occupancy, I have a couple logic gates that make the house "occupied" or not. An active RFID transmitter in the cars is one, motion sensors and pressure pads (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96481 - very DIY but works great to detect a sleeper!) are another, and a really ingenious idea I found at http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11317 allows me to track individual keychains.

      --
      -- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha
    3. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by vlm · · Score: 1

      Also, is your occupancy detection based on motion sensors? What happens if you sit still on the computer or are reading a book for a long time? Or is the timeout sufficiently high....

      I use different software than the parent poster; my timers vary on a schedule. On a "work at home day" during "work hours" the office lights, once triggered, won't turn off till somewhat after quitting time. But at 2am they don't stay on for long since I'm probably just passing thru or looking out the window or something. Unless I manually hit the on switch, in which case its on for much longer. It is medically wise to stretch your legs every couple hours, so the rest of the time, the timers reflect that belief, and if I have to wave my hands to turn the lights on, that means I failed and I should have gotten another drink...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by fat_mike · · Score: 1

      I think the exhaust fan in the bathrooms should have turbo mode and be based on what Grandpa had for dinner.

    5. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another possible feature could include a Vacation setting that simulates people are home while you're away

    6. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      Rock on, I use those same Harbor Freight mats hooked up to X10 DS10As. Ah, the DS10A, the swiss army knife of HA.

    7. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by CompressedAir · · Score: 1

      Forgot to ask: What do you use for the car RFID transmitter? I use cell phone bluetooth to tell who is home, and I'm not a big fan. Detecting cars in the garage would be much more useful to me.

      Thanks.

    8. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I own a automated home. My home setup isn't the most advanced setup in the world.... but it isn't that far behind ether.

      I fail to see any use for (linux or any other) open source software for this use. The investment required for automation (or even a house) is far greater than the cost of a used XP Box. Don't get me wrong... it's fine if you like to write code... but this hobbie really won't give you the chance to write the code you think it might.

      I use an old XP, P3 dust collector of a computer to run X10 (ActiveHomePro, from X10.com) software and a small user created software (Bill's Voice Commander http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) to voice control my system. I've created a Fan Site to help spread the word about BVC (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm). I've also created some YouTube Videos about Home Automation (http://www.youtube.com/suitmanIM).

      You can read my posts at the automation forums also.

    9. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by Sacarino · · Score: 1

      http://cliste.sailwhatcom.com/ is a guy in Washington that imports from the manufacturer in HK, so you'd get it quicker if you order from him... he sells stuff in enclosures though, so there's a bit of a markup for the middleman and final assembly bit.

      If you want to order direct from the mfg and don't care about finished enclosures, they have an ebay site at http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Ananiah-Electronics where I believe they also sell the enclosures as separate purchases. Seller is on the level and has provided excellent support for me.

      The RF40315T-x model can take either 6v or 9v-40v DC through a stepdown transformer, so you can directly wire it to a battery in the car. Works pretty well, although you'll get drop-outs from time to time so don't use any logic that trips based on the first "I'm not here any more" signal. I don't know if your software currently supports them but the protocol is fairly easy to figure out so you could roll your own if needed.

      Good luck!

      --
      -- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha
    10. Re:Welcome to my money pit! by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Do you have a website? Your ideas intrigue me and i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      I just last night change my server from XP to ubuntu. I have just gotten a few things working (haven't really used linux besides from at school a bit). It acts as a server/media center. And I coded a few bash/batch scripts over ssh so I can control music that is playing on the server (launch a player on my laptop that controls the server). Got a web server running along with torrents w/ remote control and a vpn.

      Home automation and home servers have interested me for a while but i never had the guts to dive in until recently. I'd really like to hear what possibilities someone who is in deep has come up with.

      I'm adding rhythmbox controls to my phone. And likely will be hacking together a PA system. Many of your ideas interest me as well but I'm not sure how I would jump into all of that. (Also I'm a poor college student so I can't spend a ton).

  52. One "smart" thermostat.... by Hasai · · Score: 1

    ....Which my wife insists be set to the exact same temperature for every time period of every day, and during the summer my wife switches to "AC Only" and during the winter she switches to "Heat Only".

    (Shuffles off into a corner to cry....)

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  53. Currently setting up MisterHouse to talk to my poo by BrianCarlstrom · · Score: 2, Informative

    I recently discovered MisterHouse because it has a module to talk to my Pentair Compool pool controller. I'm documenting my experience here: http://carlstrom.com/pool/

    I've found MisterHouse documentation to be frustrating but I've gotten it to do what I need so far for my pool project (allow remote control and to log temperature information over time). I will say that it could use some serious rearchitecture to go along with some better documentation. If I were going to do some more serious HA I would consider trying to improve things, but its good enough for my needs, so I'll just be submitting some minor bug fix / corrections...

  54. Heyu and domus.link by CleverDan · · Score: 1

    X10 isn't reliable. Still, I get decent enough results.
    I run Heyu. It's open source, command line driven. I schedule it with cron. It compiles and runs easily on FreeBSD, Linux, and more. (The FreeBSD port can be a little behind.)
    I have tried it with domus.link for a front-end. It works well enough for the spouse approval factor, but not a lot of bells and whistles.

  55. Re: What is the Current State of Home Automation? by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

    Linux for the Desktop is what they are using to develop Duke Nukem Forever! The Scm and the memory management is a little buggy though it seems as if they have to keep re-starting re-compile and re-install cycles for both on an hourly basis. It could take a while to get finished at this rate.

  56. Need for a LIRC-like 'transceiver of all trades' by D4C5CE · · Score: 1

    The key is not to get tied into any particular vendor's "ecosystem" (hint on marketdroid newspeak: the consumer is never on top of these food chains, and overpricing companies do go out of business, and/or force customers into upgrade cycles every bit as much as in the unfree part of IT).

    LIRC can actually drive RF transmitters as well (by simply turning off the software-generated carrier), but even for IR very few devices are more than simple receivers, though the code would allow for both recording and playback of commands for a gazillion appliances.

    Factor in a few weather/proximity sensors (some can even be received by that very same hardware) and outputs such as LivingColors as an "Ambilight on steroids" (aside the usual suspects such as roller blinds, home entertainment gear and "conventional" lamps) for computer-generated scenarios based on age-old magic like the sunrise equation, and you get an idea of how much can be accomplished with minimal hardware.

    Combining IR and RF puts within every hobbyist's reach the Holy Grail of integrating each and every remote-controlled device in the house, from high-end all the way down to the El-Cheapo DIY market.
    The current crop of microcontrollers should provide a candidate that could do the trick sitting on an Ethernet plug - or piggybacked e.g. on the USB, "hidden" internal serial or GPIO port of some popular Wi-Fi router.

    http://www.huitsing.nl/irftdi/ and http://www.mediola.com/products.htm are just a few of the places to look for inspiration.

  57. Control4 has really nice stuff, at a price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We install Control4 stuff where I work. Their stuff is nice, and can be interfaced via ZigBee, WiFi, wired networking, etc. It uses basically an object oriented setup kinda like Alice (free to download 3d world/animator made by Carnegie Mellon University).

    I also recall seeing in the past on their website it runs Linux as the main control OS, but I'm not positive about this and I don't see any GPL info or download sections on their website.

  58. Re:X10 makes cool stuff for automation - not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've also used X10 stuff extensively. Primarily because it's readily available, fairly cheap, and there's lots of Open Source software for it.

    In addition to the problems with it mentioned above I can also say that the hardware itself is crap. It kinda works mostly most of the time. But don't depend on it for the long term. Ihave lights on timers and X10 controls as well as a server listening to X10 signals that can run scripts when it sees a certain signal. As in changing the volume on my server side music playback. Skipping ahead a song, etc.

    That said, I'm forever resetting the units and having issues with them. Right when I really want to depend on the stuff like when we have a party it inevitably decides to not work right.

    There has to be a better way. And yes, there needs to be a real communication standard with error checking and retransmit like the data networking we're all used to.

    I'd be interested in any real solutions people may have.

     

  59. Go for open standards and build on top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to go for something sustainable that doesn't depend on a single manufacturer, go for open standards like KNX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KNX_%28standard%29).

    Then there are pretty cool projects like Linknx (http://sourceforge.net/projects/linknx/) that will allow you to add loads of features to your home automation system with little effort.

  60. Mawson Lakes (South Australia) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I attended a talk by the (then) president of a residents' association at the Subj residential development (developer: Delfin) - squeezed between Uni SA's Mawson Lakes (formerly: Levels) Campus & the (then floundering attempt to encourage a) Technology Park.

    The word was that Home Automation over Internet (HAoI - my name for it, not his) was REQUIRED by an encumberance - on each land-parcel owner's deed.

    In practice, this requirement translated into an INCREASE of the construction cost of the house ( $20,000 ), eg, arising from the installation of sensors, control unit & Internet interface.

    As it was a technical group, that had organised the talk, we were shown lots of system diagrams, as well as some of the control devices' & remote control software's screens. To be honest, these were hardly impressive.

    The suggestion that there was (then) a SOLE SOURCE for the installed HAoI gear made me guess that - just maybe - some insider had to be making a killing on the required extras.

    We were given to understand that most residents objected VIGOROUSLY to the extra costs - for the required installation & (for any who wished to actually use the system) costly Internet service, needed to remotely control the few functions that could (then) be controlled.

    Many owners (then and/or later) bought & built HUGE homes (so, one might think that a remote control heating/cooling system might help them to reduce energy costs), that are now used as cheap boarding houses, for the many overseas students who attend Uni SA's Mawson campus.

    In fact, some homes have modified [unlawfully & even without finishing the carpentry work, ie, beyond the point at which rooms are rented by students (particularly, newcomers, before they have a chance to find more suitable housing at about the same cost, elsewhere) from Bangladesh, China, India, Sri Lanka, etc.] by DIY owners or their carpenters, to enable them to squeeze, eg, 3 boarding rooms into what were to be family rooms, kitchens and/or master bedrooms; single bedrooms are similarly modified into multiple rooms, and these might be provided with bunk-beds, to increase the rental income.

    One is reminded of housing provided by Chinese sweat-shop dormitories, with several workers squeezed into tiny spaces, with this overcrowding leading to smoke (from cooking fires) being breathed by the occupants, just as it would be by those students living beside beside the kitchens, in the crowded boarding houses at Mawson Lakes.

    Dodgy landlords, who run such boarding houses tend not to have computers or Internet, let alone the interest in learning how to use dimly designed remote control systems (even though we might see some energy-saving advantage to their doing so, over time); instead, they may simply claim - a priori - that their tenants have used "too much" water, for example, and impose fees for the purported excess usage, just as they with hold bond money, reportedly for "carpet cleaning" without actually doing any carpet cleaning for years.

    Of course, some of these houses may have been purchased from disenchanted original owners (eg, after interest rises made that extra $20,000 house cost impact their family budgets even harder) and have no great reason to look into their houses' remote control systems.

    In sum, when developers of such residential developments IMPOSE a "one-size fits all" Home Automation system on uninterested & unwilling buyers, on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, nobody wins but the single-source HA system supplier (and, presumably the developers).

    I got the impression that - in the case of Mawson Lakes - lawyers might also have won a bit, ie, as land owners tried to workaround the encumberance's consequential $20,000 higher house costs, especially, after they saw & heard back from earlier waves of home owners there. Most (reportedly) gave up, as had that resident's organisation.

    As I recall, our speaker wasn't aware of any greater energy savings - ie, beyond what might be expected from

  61. Why not use automation already proven by CoriolisSTORM · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, but I've always thought about using an Allen Bradley PLC5 family or a Modicon PLC to control everything. I work with them every day in an industrial setting and it is robust and you can do just about anything you wanna do. You can use ladder logic (which is beneficial because I know no coding) and fulfill whatever you desire with it. Set the conditions for the output to come on, the type of output. A few sensors, cables, a relay or two and a rack, processor, powersupply and required input and output cards. Maybe your way is cheaper, I don't know as I've just been thinking about it, not in the planning stages yet.

    1. Re:Why not use automation already proven by Sacarino · · Score: 1

      You can definitely do this, and in fact I have a automation-geared PLC called an Ocelot (made by Applied Digital) which I use for mission critical applications... My garage door, for instance, is tied into the Ocelot so I know exactly what position it's in and if it's in transit or not. My lawn irrigation setup is another thing that ties into the Ocelot. For the things that must go right, I highly recommend a PLC of some sort. The Ocelot also has features that I wouldn't expect to find elsewhere (IR recognition & transmission capabilities, for instance) but any PLC that can provide contact closure information would work.

      The benefit of using a software based controller for the higher level functions really comes into play with the convergence side of things. Let's say that when the wife gets home, she likes the thermostat set on a certain setting, a particular genre of music in the background, and the lighting set in a particular scene. But when I get home, we have a compromise programmed with the thermostat and the lighting. If she leaves, then the house readjusts to just my settings - which includes ditching her music in favor of my own. Or, if we're both "away" and a door is opened or motion detected, we get emails with attached images from the cameras in those locations. You could probably do a great deal of that with just a PLC but controlling playback of a MP3 player or sending emails starts putting you in the realm of esoteric hardware interfaces... at least for me. The downside of software controllers is the pricing. When I bought into Homeseer with v1.6, it was a fraction of what it costs now. They have competition with other pricing schemas but the software costs in a niche market like this are an interesting economics lesson. An open source alternative like Misterhouse is certainly an option but it's hard to argue against the availability of hardware and software for the wintel platform.

      Having said all that, I would have to take a real hard look at my options if I was starting from scratch. A lot of these HA software guys seem to think that I'm their piggy bank and they can rape my wallet accordingly. I understand that they spend a lot of time as a code monkey to get it right but annual licensing (CQC) doesn't sit well, nor does nickle-and-dime you on features/plugins (Homeseer).

      --
      -- El Sacarino tiene gusto de la chocha
    2. Re:Why not use automation already proven by OpenRemote · · Score: 1

      If you're interested in discussing how to do things from scratch, would really appreciate your feedback, notes or comments on your experiences on OpenRemote website.

      Our goal is to build an open system for home automation with the ability to go from do-it-yourself model to pre-built or professionally installed setup. While waiting for open specifications (802.15.4, 6LoWPAN, etc.) to emerge, we are trying to integrate as many legacy HA systems as possible, placing an Open Source OpenRemote system as an integration layer between proprietary protocols. Currently focusing on X10, Insteon, KNX, UPnP, GC, ZigBee and Z-Wave protocols, would be interested in knowing if you have others you'd consider important to work with.

      Our goal is to enable commodity hardware to be used with home automation wherever possible to reduce some high-cost points in usual installations such as buying vendor-specific wall panels. We work with iPhone, and Android-based smartphones as control devices to create integrated control panels that allow single point of control on heterogeneous systems. This is often the most highly prized and fattest margin for the existing industry players as they know that integrating HVAC, lights, A/V with all proprietary protocols leaves customers and users with little or no options.

      --
      OpenRemote -- Open Source Home Automation
  62. Why PC Based? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I dont see why you need a system to be PC Based and tied to a Desktop OS. What little I've done in college utilizing PLC's and PIC based circuitry has allowed me to lay alot of theory groundwork (being a poor student implementation is more than I can afford) on setting up automation systems not connected to any PC. Probably if I would look around I could obtain most of the core infrastructure quite cheap as scrap Industrial controls.

    Point of statement > Look beyond the desktop computer for your needs, and you will find all the tools are there and they just need the right mind to put them together.

  63. Girlfriend 1.0 by surfingmarmot · · Score: 1

    She's virtual reality because this is slashdot. so she's also not even alpha yet--vaporware.

  64. What works and what doesn't by mstrebe · · Score: 1

    Disclaimer: I am the author of INSTEON: Smarthomes for everyone.

    There are basically only three "Do it yourself" home automation systems on the market that are advertised as such:

    X10, which is basically obsolete due to its lack of reliability features and speed
    INSTEON, which is essentially X10 except faster and with reliability features like retry and confirmation built in
    Z-Wave, which is wireless

    Other systems like Lutron and UPB require custom installers and are not appropriate for DIY.

    I went with INSTEON in my home. I have every light in the house automated, and because we were building we were able to save some money on the electrical wiring by not including any three-way or outdoor switches--those functions are all handled by the smarthome system. Our total cost for a 6000 sq.ft. home was about $5000 including an optional central controller called an ISY-99 that provides programmability beyond just linking lights to switches.

    What we got for the money boils down basically to convenient path lighting and remote control. Everything can be controlled by a native iPhone app, I can shut off all lights in the house with a wall switch in the bedroom, and we have the kids lights programmed to dim and then shut off with their bedtimes, and prevent them from coming back on unless we "unlock" the lights with a keypad in the livingroom. at 1:00 a.m. a script shuts off every light in the house ensuring that nothing is ever left on. Motion sensors turn on lights automatically as people move throughout the house if it's after dark.

    For lighting, the savings from before I had the system programmed in electrical costs is about $100/mo, but I have a $400 month electrical bill and pay .31 cents per kW beyond 2kW, so unless you live in a high-rate electricity area you won't save this much on lights alone.

    We also save about $250 per month during the summer months by not using the A/C when the temp is below 85 outside with automated windows that open and close on their own based on the inside and outside temperature. This is all handled by the home automation protocol. When we use the AC, our power bill is between $600..$700 per month. By automating with the windows, we've been able to cut AC use to about three weeks per year total without sacrificing comfort.

    Anyway, just my specific use case. I wouldn't expect to see these kinds of savings unless you live somewhere like Southern California. I went with INSTEON because it was reliable in my tests and cost less than anything but X10. I looked into Z-Wave, but it didn't seem as flexible, there were not nearly as many types of devices available, and it cost about double what INSTEON cost.

    --
    aka Matthew at SlashNOT/!
  65. Big reason for automation by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    We are going to start seeing more and more automation being supplied to us via the power company and/or government regulation. I know in Florida it is basically a requirement to have your air conditioner on a remote control switch - so the power company can turn it off. We are going to see this on more and more equipment in the future as electric power demand continues to increase without building any new power plants.

    You might try solar, but it is actually doubtful you are going to put up enough solar panels to run the air conditioner in the early evening. Noon? Maybe. I'd be expecting the refrigerator and big-screen TV to be next on the power company remote control list.

    Maybe having a suitably robust automation system might let you get a jump on things and avoid having your house filled with switches you cannot control.

  66. Re:Currently setting up MisterHouse to talk to my by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    talk to your what???

    oh ... I thought this post was going to
    be real interesting

  67. SNR by westlake · · Score: 1

    Probably about as many people who still read slashdot, even after the noisy posts by people who don't understand geek culture

    I'd say the noisy poster undrestands the geek culture altogether too well.

  68. Vera from Micasaverde by tisboyo · · Score: 1

    You should check out Vera from Micasaverde. http://www.micasaverde.com/ It uses ZWave, works with the new Schlage locks and while it isn't 100% open source it uses an open platform.

  69. Crestron by inicom · · Score: 1

    Do you want your home automated and have a working & stable system, or do you want your house to be another mish mash of hardware and software hacks? If the latter, by all means, go with an open-source DIY solution. In the long run, you'll have a much more satisfying, braggable, stable, wife-pleasing, supportable and low-maintenance system if you go with Crestron. I'm a long time hacker and Unix guy (I started on Unix in 1981) and generally love DIY approaches to things, but I'm also a designer and programming of Crestron systems - they are stable, reliable platforms. I've done Crestron systems that have worked flawlessly for years at a time, and only have to be touched because DirecTV changes receivers, or the DVD gets upgraded. I've seen Crestron systems that were installed in the mid-80's that are still going strong (a luxury hotel in South Beach uses a vintage Crestron system for their hotel and lobby lighting system). If you value your time at all, the upfront cost of a Crestron system is really not bad.

    --
    -a.e.mossberg
  70. Heyu, Leviton, Linux by batmanuel · · Score: 1

    Just to add my data point. I've been using open-source Heyu (http://www.heyu.org/) with a head-less Linux server, the X-10(tm) CM11a computer module and good quality Leviton "Smart Home" brand light switches for nearly 10 years with very good success. Yeah, it's home automation-light (pun intended) but it works. Don't bother with the X-10 brand light switches. They are inexpensive, but don't have local dimming capability, feel/look cheap and usually die after 12-18 months. You can hack the internal X-10 module replacing the triac to fix/help the dying problem and also remove an R-C circuit to add local dimming ability (YMMV), but that's a lot of work and still feels X-10 cheap. Stick with the Levitons.

  71. Crestron and Savant by bobdole369 · · Score: 1

    Home Automation has grown leaps and bounds, but you'll have to pay to play. The current state of the art is "Crestron", but is definitely Audio/Video oriented, but will control things and automate yourhome as well. Price tag is near a quarter million for most high-end installs.

    http://www.savantav.com/ is much cleaner, easier to use, updateable, and is chomping at Crestrons heels. Also very expensive in the hundreds of thousands, but they did just release a simple controller for only a few thousand. FYI: Savant is based on MacOSX.

    --
    Lousy facepalm.
    1. Re:Crestron and Savant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $250k would be for a VERY high-end Crestron system. Crestron now makes a lower-end affordable system. You could get a Crestron Prodigy system for under $20k.

  72. State of home automation by Ricochet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well we're on the verge of a great many changes. The push for the smart grid has begun and no one knows which direction it will go in. There are a great many technologies that can be used in automating your home but a great many players have a vested interest in not playing nice. As such the OpenRemote was started to be the glue that pulls everything together. We currently working on great many things including Insteon, X10, KNX, IP and many of the other standard interfaces.

  73. LinuxMCE by zehnra · · Score: 1

    Since I don't have any mod points and none of the other MCE posts are getting any attention... LinuxMCE is much, much more than just a media center. It was originally PlutoHome, which was designed as a home automation suite. I'm guessing the name changed due to the primary use of the product, but the automation features are still there. Since I currently don't have it in my budget to do any automation I can't speak to how well it works, but I have read that it supports most automation hardware out there. The hard part becomes finding the right hardware solution for you. From what I've read, X10 is fairly outdated and a bit frustrating, but none of the newer technologies/specifications have really taken a lead. I'd say read up on a number of the more modern specs and see what fits your need. A quick Google for home automation turns up a lot of useful information. I'd start with Wikipedia's article on home automation. It has a lot of basic information on the various protocols, specifications, brands, etc.

  74. Not forgotten... by taneli.otala · · Score: 1

    I've been building various levels of home automation for the last 12 years... A year ago, I gave up on X10/HomeDaemon, as it seems both were practically abandoned. I've built a fourth generation home automation system on a Scala based framework -- distributed, self learning, combining X10 and various relay-based systems. Insteon turned out to be a pipe dream or hype, X10 is unreliable unless run with repeaters, repeaters are not simple to operate, ... So, I've gone for a hybrid -- X10 with repeaters, software cognizant of the limitations of the repeaters and ranges; relays, portmasters, sensors (some DIY), and mostly just some serious distributed computing. My house has Solar panels, jacuzzi, kids, about 30 computers, all the rope you need (to hang yourself), and a very understanding wife. More, as I get a chance, at http://pointyhair.com/

    1. Re:Not forgotten... by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by abandoned? Sometimes software has reached its purpose and no further updates are needed. Of course this is not always true and some projects are truly abandoned.

  75. Lifeware by ajegwu · · Score: 1

    The current awesome sauce that powers the Home of the Future at Disney Land is LifeWare http://www.life-ware.com/ Right now it is all Windows Media Center based, and extremely expensive. They have however seen the error of their ways, and plan on being compatible with Linux and Mac OS in the future. More info here: http://www.life-ware.com/products/evolving-tech.php

  76. OpenRemote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a new GPL platform in development called OpenRemote. It is based on open standards and supports popular protocols like x10, KNX and Insteon. They already have software that runs the backend called the "Boss" and remote platform working on the iPhone/Touch. The project was started by Marc Fleury, founder and former CEO of JBoss If you are just getting started, this definitely worth looking at.

    http://www.openremote.org/

    David

  77. Barix by Newer+Guy · · Score: 1

    Barix home automation products are all Linux based. www.barix.com

  78. Pachube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might try the Pachube community for ideas: http://www.pachube.com/ and http://community.pachube.com/.

  79. OpenRemote by OpenRemote · · Score: 1

    OpenRemote is an effort we've started focusing on home automation within Open Source space.

    The goal is to bring open system and open protocols to all users with the ability to go from do-it-yourself model to pre-built or professionally installed building and home automation. While some open specifications are emerging (802.15.4, 6LoWPAN, etc.), the current state of the industry is built around proprietary protocols and hardware. While waiting for things to improve, we will integrate as many of the legacy HA systems as possible, placing OpenRemote as an integration layer between various existing systems (Open Source is good at integrating with its "scratch-my-itch" model).

    Our goal is to enable commodity hardware to be used with iPhone, Android and Linux support, especially to build integrated control panels for homes that allow single point of control on networked devices at home. This is often the most highly prized and fattest margin for the existing industry players as they know that integrating HVAC, lights, A/V with all proprietary protocols leaves customers and users with little options. A 15-inch wall panel in the HA industry can literally draw $5000 to $7000 price tags when the cost to manufacture is a tiny fraction of that (imagine the size of a TV you could buy for a $7k).

    --
    OpenRemote -- Open Source Home Automation
  80. AMX by hyperviper66 · · Score: 1

    I am a builder from Australia and use a system called AMX. It is the most advanced (and most expensive) system available. It does from memory run on a custom unix or linux platform. It can pretty much control anything as long as you have the money to spend on the system. The system in my house was aproximately AUD $230,000 including the Clipsal C-bus lighting system, plasma screens, cinema system, multi-room audio system and lots of other bits & pieces. This might seem expensive but its actually quite a cheap installation for this type of system. AMX is used in the United States Military, the white house, homes such as that of Bill Gates, etc. I highly recommend it if you can afford it. See http://www.amx.com/

  81. AMX and Crestron by zarozarozaro · · Score: 1

    I've been built many systems based on AMX and Crestron platforms. They are pretty much state of the art as far as I know. They are expensive, but if you know what to look for you can find some cheap second hand controllers on the online auction sites.
    One drawback is that both of these systems require knowledge of their proprietary languages and protocols. There is another company called Aurora that makes the WACI series of controllers that are more standards compliant, but I have never built a system using their controllers.

  82. for HA to become more common, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    some things are missing

    IMH wireless is too much of a risk to be abused to be used for serioud things.

    X10 is too expensive and has no backchannel automatically.

    a HA controlled switch should directly fit into a standard installation can/hole and cost no more than $ 10

    it needs to retain the manual switch functionality, but needs to report the change in status back to the HA controller

    one needs also to distinguish between appliances which can be switch automatically without much danger, like lights, shades and the like, but already a sprinkler system poses a risk.

    A intrusion detection system I would not run via the power lines, but give it a separate wiring/bus.

    are there any projects to improve X10? Isn't the patent running out?

    1. Re:for HA to become more common, by Ricochet · · Score: 1

      Wireless may be acceptable but I also worry about it's use. Not so much due to DOS but rather just too many wireless devices.

      I doubt we will ever see the switch/outlet/module for $10 and the reason would be the processor needed to handle the next request the identification of the 'class of service' (things like the risk factor). Something like UPnP would be needed and that will require some horsepower.

      Currently there is A10, a slightly improved X10. Insteon and UPB are both power line and provide ACK/NACK to the protocol. With Insteon we lose virtual addressing from X10 (a device that doesn't exist but which commands are sent to). This is due to the linking requirements (kind of security). The X10 PLC patents have run out, I'm not sure of the wireless related patents.

  83. How about using a Controller Area Network? by ahfoo · · Score: 1

    This is a bus that is growing rapidly in the automotive industry and is also popular in vending machines. There's an element of structure built into the network level to enhance safety as it's an automotive standard.

    There has been an open source home automation system based on it for several years.

    Yeah, here it is:
    http://caraca.sourceforge.net/

  84. Pluto Home Automation by jujuchef · · Score: 1

    Pluto Home This is pretty good stuff. The core is linux, but if you want those essential extras (DVD recording/playback) then you'll need to either add your own packages to the system, or purchase the canned solution they offer.

    The thought of shouting abuse at a burgler/stalker/milkman through my home stereo system while watching him on my mobile is oh so exciting! There might be a world's funniest video hidden in there..

    --
    Truth is realized, not told...
  85. I'm looking forward for digitalSTROM availability by rapidmax · · Score: 2, Informative

    If they where really available next year, this seems to be the perfect solution to control my home. The components works without programming at all out of the box, you'll just need a button and a few digitalSTROM enabled bulb or luster terminal to start. There is no wiring needed, only a simple component right after the fuse or each circuit.

    I'll add the server component of course, as this part is released as OpenSource (GPL, as this was said at LinuxTag '09). Using this server I'm able to program and control the house exactly as I like.

    I'll use OpenRemote to control the server part. This project finally connects all kind of home equippment together (KNX, UPnP, etc). This project should also provide an easy panel interface.

  86. Another Open Source Alternative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year I worked on a project where I explored knowledge representation, language parsing, and voice interfaces, which resulted in:

    http://www.platoai.com/

    The code is available on SourceForge and is written in C#.

  87. LinuxMCE.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out linuxmce.org. The Kubuntu system features gaming, climate control, lighting, telecom, media, security and can control X-10, KNX/EIB, Z-Wave, EnOcean, Insteon, and PLC devices. You can control the system from many number of devices.

  88. Control4 by AndreaDo · · Score: 1

    Not all is lost... http://www.control4.com/

  89. Wasted talent by tuxgeek · · Score: 1

    May I suggest applying for a job @ SNL
    You're a natural

    --
    "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
  90. thought of ever selling your house? by formfeed · · Score: 1
    Europeans usually stay in the same place for two to three thousand years, but Americans move every couple years and sell their houses.

    So if you happen to live in the Westindies, i suggest for home automation : 1.look for useful rather than for unique, and 2. make it movable or make it compatible.

    1. I'd rather add zoning, so the upstairs bedroom has it's on thermostat, before I'd build a system that turns on the lights 10 minutes before I get up.

    2. If you're planning on leaving the system in the house, make it so it works with "standard" components. You can build your own, but make the interfaces follow some commercial standard, so someone without much knowledge could just buy a part and pop it in.

  91. Setting up an HA system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm actually using a hardware alarm/automation panel ELK M1 Gold, and have been using a software based automation program called CQC

  92. X10 to Insteon Experience by patrick0brien · · Score: 1

    I started with X10 because of it's incremental scalability and carrier-signal-through-the-house wiring, but eventually outgrew the reception. (for those not washed, X10 communicates from a sentral controller, there is a limit to the distance and how much line noise there is between the devices). Then I began to replace the X10 units with INSTEON (which is mesh networking) and it is a beautiful thing. Controlled with a Mac Mini running Indigo, I have voice, wall switch, and iPhone control of individual lights, lighting moods, HVAC, security, pet feeding, litter box (yes, both input AND output covered!) even the computers themselves. Too much to go into on all of the intelligence the system controls based on weather, occupancy, etc, but it's very very cool. Cannot complain. What really does it for me on this system is the easy incremental scalability. Just add more as I need them - window curtains next. Oh, and it halved my electric bill.

    --
    -"I ate what?"
  93. Jane, get me off this crazy thing! by professorguy · · Score: 1

    Hey, I have home automation: My heat is automatically turned down when no one is home because there's no one there to put more logs into the woodstove. This has worked great since 1979.

    On a serious note, I think most automation projects are designed beautifully but are not used as designed because it turns out they weren't really needed. This is fine for a hobby but it don't make a market.

    If you're thinking "I need some automation." maybe you should instead be thinking "I have way too much shit to take care of." If you're thinking "I need to protect my crap." maybe you should instead be thinking "Why do I have this crap?" Buying "crap babysitters" is always going to be more expensive than not owning crap that needs babysitting.

    If you are seriously considering having to call your oven to tell it you're going to be late from work, you have all the disadvantages of a wife without the advantages. WTF?

  94. Chicken & Egg problem. by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

    I won't buy new windows. The ROI is way too long.
    My present windows are R2. At a heating season of 250,000
    degree heating hours per year, and R2 window loses me about
    125,000 BTU/square foot /year. It also gains me about 100,000
    btu/year if it faces south. But ignore that. 125,000 btu
    is 1/8 of a gigajoule -- about $5 delivered via the natural gas line. Three years losses of a 20 square foot window are
    $300. I just replace such a window. (grouse flew through it) Cost me $1200. For an R2 window, no better than what the grouse smashed. R8 windows are possible, but at 3 times the price, and not clear that htey will last for 30 years -- which is the simple payback time. And at 30 years, lost
    opportunity costs are no longer insignificant.

    Based on this, I would be willing to pay more than my original
    $50. But remember that I have to buy the blinds, curtains, or panels too.

    In general I won't invest in an action to save money unless
    it has a simple payback (ignoring lost opportunity costs,
    ignoring the value of my time) of under 3 years.

    If something is a matter of convenience, then it has to compete for funding with beer and paperback novels.

    Window blind openers are a convenience.

    Net effect: I won't be an early adopter.

    However if peripheral readers (temp, humidity, illumination
    etc.) and their communication to the master controler get
    cheap, AND the effectors (turn lights on/off, power step motor 300 steps THAT way) get reasonable AND they can
    communicate through wi-fi or it's equivalent, then there
    are lots of things to do.

    If there are lots of things to do, then there is a large market, and the price gets cheap.

    Much like computers. Few people want a DEC PDP-11 taking
    up a room in their house. But we now have 4 computers at home, not counting the embedded ones.

    --
    Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  95. PowerHome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you haven't heard of it, look into PowerHome. While not particularly user friendly, if you are a DIYer and have tech background, you will likely find this to be far and away the best of the software lot when it comes to taking on home automation. (Disclaimer: I am a home user of PowerHome and have purchased the application, but beyond that have no affiliation with the developer other than offering him my profound respect.)

    It supports X10 and Insteon, but offers programmatic capabilities well beyond that.

  96. Pretty good is good enough by asteinmetz · · Score: 1

    The term "automation" can be vague. It can mean stuff happens without human intervention or it can mean stuff happens under my control without me leaving the couch. I have a mix of DIY stuff centered around these building blocks: - Homeseer - Elk home security system - Z-Wave light switches (Leviton) - Aprilaire Thermostats -Panasonic IP Cameras -Logitech Squeezeboxes - Denon AV receiver with built-in web server - Universal brand IR/RF remotes Homeseer does the programmatic stuff and talks to the Elk, light switches and thermostats. The Elk has many, many motion sensors wired into it so I throw in a bunch of rules at Homeseer around motion control of lights. The IP cameras are super baby monitors for the nursery and common areas, and cover entrances. Zoneminder (running on an old box with Ubuntu server) is an open source DVR for the cameras. The AV chores are handled by the Denon receiver and the Universal remotes. The Receiver, cable boxes and squeezebox are in the basement and an RFtoIR blaster delivers the remote commands. The key thing to note about all this is that it is not all tied together with a unified interface on a touch panel, or suchlike. The interfaces for AV, security cameras and lighting/climate are separate. BUT, virtually all of it is IP-based. No legacy X-10 stuff or proprietary wiring. This means everything has a web interface because all of the hardware ganglia :) have web servers built in. So rather than get up from the kitchen table to change from radioIO to Radio Paradise, we can do it from our iPhones. The wife isn't 100% fluent in all this geekery but she can get to the Tivo stuff, and listen to music, and bring up the nursery cams on the netbook, so she's pretty happy.

  97. One commercial system... by hoofie · · Score: 1

    There is a system that's been on sale in Australia for a number of years - it is available in the US and Europe also. It's called C-Bus. The product comprises switches, controllers, relays etc and is available primarily in a wired configuration but there are wireless products available also.

    It's main use is really in the commercial sphere due to the cost but it is used in high-end homes also. Whilst the hardware is commercial, Clipsal have recently published the serial protocol specifications [as used by the serial interface, not the device communication protocol itself].

    For a look at the product range see here. {That isn't a Clipsal website but it gives a good idea of the product range}. Providing it's installed and wired correctly it is extremely reliable and easy to maintain. It also scales very well.

  98. EHome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbxhN603Cw8