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Synthetic Stone DVD Claimed To Last 1,000 Years
Lucas123 writes "A start-up launched a new DVD archive product this week: a disc that it says will hold its data for 1,000 years. The company, Cranberry, says its DiamonDisc product, which can be used in any standard DVD player, is not subject to deterioration from heat, UV rays or material rot due to humidity or other elements because it has no dyes, adhesives or reflective materials like standard DVD discs, and its discs are made from a vastly more durable synthetic stone. Data is laid down on the platter much in the same way as a standard DVD disc, but with DiamonDisc the burner etches much deeper pits. Cranberry said it is also working on producing a Blu-ray version of its 1,000-year disc."
..."The 10 commandments" Remastered Special Edition.
It's the 2 (Synthetic) Stone DVD Version...
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
You know, when CDs and DVDs came out, they claimed they would last 50 years. I have yet to find one that lasts longer than 5. So I'd say, 1,000 years translates to about a hundred years, tops. Also, it may not be vulnerable to humidity in a controlled environment, but in the outdoors, a few seasons of freezing/melting and it'll be shot. Water beats rock every time.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Wonder if they applied for a patent before April 22, 2004 ?
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Ever-Disk
meh
... they also make a DVD player that lasts 1000 years?
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Apparently it's not like your choice is between 3 years and 1000 years. From TFA:
"... [the new disks] outlast the durability of competitors that claim a 300-year shelf life."
I don't know, but 300y sounds like a pretty good improvement over the standard, too...
Coasters have come full circle now.
I remember my mom's ceramic coasters (bone china she called it, which as a 5 year old, creeped me out).
They were pretty durable, and lasted my mom all here adult life. The writing on the bottom was still readable after all those years.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Jeeez, it took long enough to come up with a practical alternative to hieroglyphics carved in stone. So far, that was the best technology for millennial storage. I just want to be certain that I get that 1000 year warranty, in case its just a bunch of empty promises. I don't want to be disappointed 800 years down the road.
We'll see.
It's going to be really hard to convince average computer users who think their data will last forever that it won't. And after 50 years no one might even own dvd players.
The .000000000000000001x record rate.
Unless they still make the cool sparking design whilst in the microwave, I am not interested!
Recordable DVDs don't use pits, do they?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
YOG EAT!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Knowing that a significant revenue source for the distributors of DVD's is the fact that people scratch and rebuy, will the various distributors allow it to prosper?
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
What are they recording?
The Rolling Stones?
The Stone Roses?
The Stone Temple Pilots?
Rainy Day Women # 12 & 35?
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
... seems to have been designed to linger.
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
What are the odds the company's around to sue if they're wrong in 100 years let alone 1000? I can tell you the odds of the guys who made the claim being around are zero. If you're going to put your faith in this nonsense I have a bridge to sell you.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
They'll come in several varieties:
I hope it works as advertised.
Even if it only lasts for 10% of the advertised time. There have been all kinds of questions about safeguarding and backing up data to insure that it won't go bad in a couple years and if this turns out to be a good solution then great.
Course, I'm not ever going to buy from them so my feelings won't be hurt if it's a crock of shit.
...it will probably take about that long for me to figure out the lyrics to my Municipal Waste DVD.
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
Albert Einstein
Thats IF Cranberry hasn't already been sunk due to lawsuits over the disks lasting only 100 years.
We'll all be LONG DEAD by then! Who cares if it lasts beyond the lifespan of our children? I honestly couldn't care less - so not impressed!
TFA quotes temperature resistance of 176 degrees. Fahrenheit. For a "synthetic stone" product that is supposed to be super durable, that is chickenshit. It's barely warmer than parked-car-in-summer-sun.
I have to wonder, did some journalist fail at accuracy, or are these things actually pretty painfully unexciting in terms of temperature resistance?
DVD that can store data for 1000 years. Who cares even if it does ?
It won't deteriorate. Until some trans-dimensional being gets shklis or shkler tentacles on it.
I'd be interested to see, actually, how "practical" hieroglyphs in stone could be made to be, if somebody did a completely straight-faced interpretation of the idea, using fully modern techniques.
With all the research that has been done for barcodes, and the resulting wealth of fairly high density, surprisingly robust, and monochrome printable data encoding systems, plus modern CNC gear and a dash of robotics, you should be able to produce a device that would swiftly, automatically, and (comparatively) efficiently write data to stone tablets, and interface with ordinary computer systems as a WORM drive...
As it stands, you might want to get a solid five-year warranty on existing recordable DVDs, because the odds are you'll be disappointed as little as two years down the road. I have 5.25" floppy disks from the 8-bit Apple II era that have a higher data retention rate than a lot of DVD-R discs.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
at our current high tech stuff, there can't be that many reason to worry about 1,000 year retention.
"To stop the terrorists."
At 60X the cost of a standard DVD it's pretty much for the buyer with no other choice. I want a stable solution for movies. I'm willing to pay the price for even Blu-rays but what pisses me off are the fact over half my DVDs give me a bad sector warning at least once. That's from the factory and it gets worse even after a year or two. I happily bought Laserdisks which were much more expensive but at least they were good quality. They degraded but they tended to work from the factory. The image quality may be better on DVDs than VHS but the product quality is much worse. I want archival quality retail products, movies and music. I'm tired of rebuying products because of poor quality media.
Sounds like "Conan The Librarian" when after the Mayan apocalypse of 2012, 1000 years later when the vestiges of humanity finally rediscover metalworking, Conan goes on a mission to find the mythical Stone DVD which a shamanic priest who has access to a pre-apocalypse technology, inserts it into the player only to find porn.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
We've just entered the Neoneolithic Age.
why not just store information on a flash memory chip?
How did their marketing department miss this?
"DiamonDisc archive solutions... it's the pits!"
Sometimes this stuff just writes itself... where do I send my resume?
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
The Thousand Year Rock
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
I'd recommend going straight to the company Cranberry is licensing from, Millenniata. It looks like you can purchase identical products for about 1/3 the price. Cranberry's got one heck of a mark-up.
"...but the media is unharmed by heat as high as 176 degrees Fahrenheit, ultraviolet rays or normal material deterioration..."
In short, it still cannot survive a simple house fire or the complete leveling of a major city by fire, historically the single greatest threat to information storage.
I am curious what it does in a microwave oven though.
No. Sorry. No way. This is vaporware. It could not possibly work in a standard DVD player.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
This is my kinda computing. Etch that data in stone! Nwo they could just make me a computer made entire of stone and steel, with arcane markings etched into all sides, I can start doing my computing with a true view for the long term!
How the ? does this work?
Laser light is reflected off the reflective substrate and its the difference in the reflection pattern which shows its reading a pit or not... so with no reflective surface fail to see how this is going to work.
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
Edmund: No, you see, the thing about Heaven, is that Heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in Heaven, like, uh, well, singing, talking to God, watering pot plants... Whereas Hell, on the other hand, is for people who like the other sorts of things: adultery, pillage, torture -- those areas.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
$30 Dollars for one 4.7 gig disk no thank you I'll stick with hard drive back up.
... or your money back! :)
Someone call the flintstones were going back to the stone age.
Personally I find this ridiculous.
I once saw a news story on CBS covered by David Pogue on dying 'content storage formats'. It is surprising how fast even certain popular file formats extinct from the face of earth because of a new competing format. And it doesn't take centuries, one good decade is more than enough.
Yes, you can have the 1000 y.o. DVD... but you better append the software to read your specific data + an OS which runs that software. Not to forget, find an emulator which can mimic the hardware environment for a 1000 y.o. OS.
The discs might last for 1000 years, but it's a good bet in 3009 the MPAA still will not have let the contents of those discs slip into public domain by then!
Shut it Metheuselah. Stop bragging.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
"Don't let it burn, don't let it fade"
Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
without the player... I haven't had a dvd-rw player laser head last more than a couple of years with minimal use. Exactly how do they expect dvd discs to last if no reader will be available to read them.
You know, when CDs and DVDs came out, they claimed they would last 50 years.
Obviously they did extensive 50-year tests of each of their competing best designs. Then went a couple of design iterations, testing each of them, such that they had some evidence to back up that claim.
Which leads you to the startling conclusion that the Stone DVDs were first sketched out on mount Sinai, then the design was tested throughout generations.
Seriously, they'll last a 1000 years? How do they know? What model predicts this? What's the evidence for the validity of that model?
19th century cryptanalytical [wikipedia.org] techniques could determine the correspondence of the mysterious 8-pit repeating units to letters. (After all, what is ASCII except a simple substitution cipher?)
Nit pick: the "Wheel of Fortune" cryptanalysis---guess a you have a couple of extremely-high-probability letters figured out correctly, make qualified guesses at the rest with grep and /usr/share/dict/words---work based on the assumption that you know the distribution of the plaintext (i.e. that it's a natural language and you know which one).
I don't know how well they work on .iso file systems if you don't know they're iso file systems. They might work pretty poorly. And even if the CD contains mostly text, there's a lot of file system metadata that messes with your character frequencies. Good luck "decrypting" that Starcraft CD. Or that music CD.
Hah! Give it to my three-year-old girl. I wouldn't give it fifteen minutes before it's been destroyed.
They're just round clay tablets. 3,000 year old tech, but obviously very durable,
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Some people are working on a mechanical binary clock to last 10,000 years. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now
I still have boxes of floppy discs somewhere, but nothing to read them on.
Hell. In 1000 years, the languages will be unrecognisable even assuming there is still civilisation. There are stone tablets out there in museums which nobody can understand because the language and alphabet are unknown.
Adding microscopic bits and digital enncoding simply guarantees it's going to be undecipherable.
Think about your archival needs:
1 year: online
5 years: digital optical media
10+ year: paper
100+ years: you really think you are that important?
Deleted
"if I find I'm wrong (I'm currently an atheist), I'll gladly change my ways (God says you only need to repent before death to be accepted in to the kingdom of Heaven)." What if, when that time comes, you are so hardened in your unbelief and sin that you couldn't care less about repentance and things spiritual? Or you have dementia and can no longer make decisions. Or you had every intention to repent that night when you got home but didn't plan on the bus which hit you or that stray bullet to the head? What's more you are mistaken if you believe that repenting from your sin and unbelief is up to you. It is not. According to the Bible, it is God who grants repentance to whom He chooses. Consider: ". . . gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim 2:25). "When they heard this they had no further objections and praised God, saying, 'So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life'"(Acts 10:18). "'Stop grumbling among yourselves,' Jesus answered. 'No one can come to me unless the Father Who sent me draws him" (John 6:44). Friend, if you ever sense the tug in your heart to repent from your sins and receive Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, do it! You may never get that tug again. Do not presume upon the mercy of God.
Mod Me Up. You'll make a grown man cry.
A media that will last between Debian releases!
I'm going to wait until the Synthetic Stone Chisel comes down in price.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Based on what definitions of "most" and "likely"?
A single DiamonDisc costs $34.95, two or more individual discs go for $29.95, and a five-pack is $149.75.
Of course, the company is also happy to sell you its burner, but that will set you back $4,995. But, for $5,000 you get 150 DiamonDiscs to burn away until to heart's content.
So one is $34.95, two or more is $29.95 per disc and a five pack bargain is $29.95 per disc.
But if you buy a $4995 burner you can get 150 disc for $5000, that is $33.33 per disc and you have to burn them yourself.
Nyh!
Papyrus lasts thousands of years in the right conditions, and it has a slightly higher data density than carved stone.
How is this modded "insightful" when the provided link doesn't even work?
Please tell me this is a TROLL.
"In 1000 years, the languages will be unrecognisable" - based on what? Historians don't have many problems reading texts from a 1000 years ago, or 2000 for that matter.
OK assuming that we actually have the texts, vellum and clay tablets not being the most popular media these days.
I just stumbled across this on the Long Now web site.
http://blog.longnow.org/2009/10/22/millenniata-now-shipping/
Everyone except you quietly fixed the link for themselves without moaning about it.
We go back to stone tablets. Wow.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
As the x86 architecture has already eloquently proven to us, (and Windows to a degree as well, given that the customer perception was that Windows was free, due to the CPU tax) competitive fitness in the marketplace is determined purely by price.
Technological/engineering quality does not enter into the equation at all; if it did, we'd all be using MIPS or ARM processors, and the x86 would be dead.
From the market point of view, it doesn't matter in the slightest that these disks might be more reliable, or last much longer than conventional DVDs. The cheapest solution always wins, and usually, the cheapest solution is also the worst technological solution, not the best.
I would love to own one of these burners, and also several of these DVDs, because I'm one of the few very rare individuals who values technical excellence more than superficiality. However, the economic problem is still a very practical one for me, sadly; I'm on a pension.
Hence, I might really want stone DVDs, but if I can only afford conventional ones, conventional are what I will buy.
Yabba dabba dooo!
FLR
I find it interesting that my personal beliefs about the Jewish messianic era are very similar: i.e., I don't believe in a human messiah arriving (unlike Jewish fundamentalists), but rather view it as an allegory for humanity reaching a higher spiritual level.
Of course, in order to accept that, you have to get past the mindless shouting of those who are threatened by differing opinions about irresolvable issues.
Right on, dude! May it be His will.
but they still wont be able to open the docx
...is gonna drop like a rock.
That's fantastic, now we can export 80's bush to the 31st century!
Hopefully the receipt and warranty card will last 1000 years.
It is nothing of the sort. It is a reasonable question, founded on perceptions common to many outside of the Christian faith. One answer is that since heaven is a place of eternal happiness, no discontent is possible. The only way for that to be possible is either to revoke free will or to remake people to be incapable of negative emotions and actions (which amounts to the same thing).
-1 raving lunatic; +6 subGenius... Things even out...
Good point. They really only need to make the media last one day longer than whatever we end up using for original sales receipts.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Knowning how to behave as a girl or a boy is learned. Usually most of it is learned by the age of 6 years, but let's face it, unless you're stagnating, you should be learning new things about what it means to be whatever you are all the time, as you pass through the stages of life.
--
.nosig
Actually, I was really COMMENTING on what LOOKS like rather ODD capitalization.
After thowsands of years of various forms of barbarism welcome back to the stone age civilisation.
Will it blend?
interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
Your content or mine might not be that important, but I can guarantee that there are some museums and academic libraries out there that want to archive their materials digitally over long periods.
Can't wait till these are the same price as regular dvds,
but until then I am sure that 5$ per dvd, is not really what I plan to pay...!!!
Those are real?!?
I have a box that I thought came from a novelty store, like the fabled "TRS-80." Really, like Radio-shack would ever brand a computer!
I will sell you 1000 year guaranteed DVD+R's for only $3 each per AND you can burn them on your regular burner! The warranty is 1000 years and comes with a full refund guarantee of the cost of the DVD ($3) for each one which fails.
Want to know my secret business model? I buy regular DVD's for $0.20, sell them for $3. Any DVD which fails I return the cost so my profit is only interest on the $3 for however many years (say average 5years, $0.60 profit which covers my cost 3X). I also make the entire $3 for any DVD's destroyed (shredded confidential data, etc), lost, etc.
Longevity claims by the manufacturer or seller are irrelevant, unless backed by some $ numbers. I bet Synthetic Stone's EULA states the warranty liability is the cost of the disk at most. Now, if there was insurance I could buy on this, the cost of this insurance would tell me the real reliability. If they are confident it's a 1 in a million chance for the disk to fail in 100 years, they should be able to sell me 100 year insurance for $1 which will pay $500,000 if that happens AND this would still net them $0.50 per disk profit (1M disks sold, $1M revenue, 1 $500K payout, $500K profit on 1M disks). If the odds differ for expected failure of 1, 10, 100, 1000 years, they should price the "insurance policies" accordingly. Then I'd believe it (and no, the "insurance company" cannot be a separate LLC which goes bankrupt every time there is a payout, it must tie to the original company or better yet be backed by a major insurance company).
I'll sell you one that looks exactly the same - heck, it may even have their name on it - but my discs? They'll last for, oh, let's say 5,000 years. Did I say 5,000? I meant 10,000. And they only cost 20% more! Checks made out to "CASH", please.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
my 2
Awesome... now in 1000 years people will be able to watch that burned copy of dirty sanchez. yay. thank-you guys!
Meh. I read it and while the first third was interesting, the middle third was dull and the last third just kind of went off on some unrelated rant about euthanasia.
Not that great.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
--Despite the jokes, seriously - I've long been thinking this would be the best way to archive stuff that you NEVER want to lose. Think " Dead Sea Scrolls " type longevity.
--Stone Just Doesn't Wear if properly cared for - and should still be mostly readable if -not- cared for. These discs will likely last for generations, even if you put them at the bottom of the ocean in a Baggie.
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
Having spent the first 10 years of my career running glass mastering operations for 2 of the top companies in the business... I thought I should point a few things out. The same accelerated environmental testing that this company cites shows that a well manufactured (pre-recorded) CD or DVD will also last well in excess of 1000 years, assuming it is handled properly and not subjected to extreme environmental conditions. Recordable discs have a dye layer that is more susceptible to degradation, but a well manufactured CD-R or DVD-R will probably outlast the useful life of the data. "DiamonDisc the burner etches much deeper pits" - seems to show a lack of understanding of how CDs and DVDs work. To optimize the signal the pit should be an optimal width and depth. Deeper is not better. No reflective layer? How do you read the disc? I'll bet it's hard to meet the reflectivity spec without a reflective layer. I wonder what the HF signals look like... the error rates, the jitter. Have these discs been measured by an independent expert? If they aren't in spec to begin with, I don't care that they last 1000 years. To make CDs and DVDs economically, they need to be injection molded out of polycarbonate. In any case, the disc must have a clear layer that is 0.6 mm thick, allowing the drive to properly focus on the information layer. The "DiamonDisc" DVDs are almost certainly molded out of polycarbonate. If the polycarbonate breaks down in a standard DVD, it will break down in this DVD. If you want long lasting DVD-Rs, there are companies making them that have been in business for decades. Get DVDs made with a pure gold reflective layer... they'll last longer than we will.
"I bet if Gregorian Monks had audio recording technology, it would be called Stone Temple Cassettes".
-Clio
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