Slashdot Mirror
Man Sues Neighbor For Not Turning Off His Wi-Fi
Scyth3 writes "A man is suing his neighbor for not turning off his cell phone or wireless router. He claims it affects his 'electromagnetic allergies,' and has resorted to being homeless. So, why doesn't he check into a hotel? Because hotels typically have wireless internet for free. I wonder if a tinfoil hat would help his cause?"
Trojan, please.
You can't be "Allergic to wi-fi"
Put him in a room, and turn the wireless on and off. Guaranteed he won't be able to tell the difference.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits" - Albert Einstein
Does he sue neighbors for nuking food too? What about talking on cordless phones? Using bluetooth headsets or wireless console controllers?
This seems a lot like http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/07/27/1514209/English-DJ-Claims-Wi-Fi-Allergy which was proven to be a PR stunt in http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/07/31/1528241/Wi-Fi-Allergy-a-PR-Stunt
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Even if we were to assume that these "electromagnetic allergies" did exist, no one is forcing that man to live there. As an example, I'm allergic to dogs, but I'm not suing my neighbor for owning one. It's my choice to live where I do and it's not my prerogative to tell him that he can't own a dog.
I have a way to be fair to this guy, as well as punish people abusing torts. It's very simple:
a) If he can demonstrate his ability to detect electromagnetic fields under reasonable experimental conditions, they'll consider his case.
b) If he can't demonstrate his ability to detect electromagnetic fields under reasonable experimental conditions significantly more than chance, he owes the plaintiff the same amount he's seeking.
I call this the `put up or shut up` principle. Although, it might be more widely known as the `Let's not be flaming idiots` principle.
.. we're still watching you.
And stop eating meat OR veggies -- I can hear the carrots scream!
Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/12/santa-fe-wifi-foe-strikes-again-sues-neighbor-for-using-wireles/
You can be sure that if any harmful link had been scientifically established to this point, even just on the
balance of probabilities, a class action lawyer would already be in there pursuing a billion dollar
case for the class of "neighbours of wi-fi basestations.
I'm still open minded about all this. I don't really think cell phone radiation is bad for me, but
I would move or protest if someone put up the cell transmitter on my roof.
And I ain't superstitious, but a black cat just crossed my path.
To the defendant: Make sure a judge hears the case, not a jury.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
I think this guy's full of it, but there's a pretty simple test. Blindfold him and drive him out to a nice, open, quiet country setting. Something with lots of fresh air, birds chirping, no cars, no people, etc. Somewhere where you can smell flowers from a mile away and it feels like you're on a country road in the middle of nowhere. Park under high tension lines. Then ask him how he feels. If he's not on the ground doubled over in pain, he's a POS and full of it.
And if this guy really does have that severe a reaction to all technology, then Darwin says he should go stuff. Let him join an Amish community and live the rest of his life in peace. He has no right to shut down every invention of the past hundred years everywhere he goes simply because he's a genetic disaster.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Is he crazy? I wanna sue my neighbour for not turning his WiFi back on!
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
I am so certain that this poor jerk's investment in a law suit will bring him good results. The settlement will be delivered in a car driven by Elvis with Jimmy Hoffa representing the defendant.
So the popular radiowaves he knows/thinks about bothers him but not all the other sources.
Lets hope he does not park his car close to a cell tower, a tv or radio transmitter etc.
Better yet, give him a Wi-spy and let him scan 2.4GHz for all the other crap there like car alarms, baby monitors, etc. He well never find a place to sleep.
If the neighbor's house was emitting dangerous levels of gamma radiation then the suit would definately have merit but this is a severe phobia not a physiological reaction to wifi "radiation." There is zero evidence what so ever that anyone has any adverse reaction to wifi and even if there was. it would not be an "allergy."
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
As has been mentioned by others, WiFi sensitivity should easily count for paranormal under the James Randi Educational Foundation's $1M paranormal prize. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
Test your net with Netalyzr
There seems to be a desperate need for Faraday Burka. That way they can feel safe and we don't have to look at them. Also they'll have the added benefit of it protecting them from the sun's rays which I'm sure most sufferers aren't used to seeing. A mesh lined Burka has got to be more stylish than walking around in tin foil.
how about this guy turns his house into a giant faraday cage?
not that i believe his 'allergy' has any merit.
b) If he can't demonstrate his ability to detect electromagnetic fields under reasonable experimental conditions significantly more than chance, he owes the plaintiff the same amount he's seeking.
Why the amount he's seeking?
Wouldn't it be more fair to compensate the defendant for court fees (if any), lawyer salary, lost income/time and compensate the defendant for undue emotional distress? That is, make repairs exactly for the damage or losses you have caused, no more and no less?
Or should there be a disincentive towards filing suits? We all hate litigious bastards, especially the well-funded kind, but disincentives towards filing suits also impacts the little man.
I'm not saying I know the answer. I'm just suggesting that we should consider all the options (or at least a handful).
"An idea is a dangerous thing to have if it's your only idea." (I can't remember who said it, but I think David Allen quoted that person in Getting Things Done.)
Faraday Cage
Intel has equipped entire floors at Jones Farm with these (even coatings on the Windows). Yes, it makes cell phones unusable on those floors.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Turn off SSID broadcast on the router and tell the neighbor the WiFi is off. It may be slight nuisance since you will have to configure your WiFi clients manually instead of picking the network from a menu, but most of them will remember the network, so you only have to do it once.
Alternately, install a few thin metal poles or strands regularly spaced along the fence between the two properties and tell the neighbor it is a Faraday shield that will keep radiation from crossing the fence.
...how exactly did he know his neighbor had a wireless router running, unless he used some sort of wireless device (all of which produce their own EM emissions) to specifically detect the EM emissions coming from his neighbor? And no, divining rods don't count, regardless of what Iraqi bomb squads are doing.
Corollary to Hanlon's razor: Any significantly advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.
While I agree, there needs to be protection for those with less extreme claims, there also needs to be more teeth to punishing those who abuse the system.
Another thought pops into my head: abusers tend to be repeat "customers" at the court (and non-abusers don't). Or so I'm lead to think; I don't for sure (somebody collect some numbers...).
But if I'm right, why not make repeat offences carry exponentially increasing punishments---base 2, or base something larger than the average economic growth rate times k, or ...?
And quite possibly a douchebag.
If he really had "electromagnetic allergies" he could've painted his whole house (walls, floors, ceilings, everything) with this stuff and been fine. He's just an attention seeker, a possible nutbag, and like I said, a moron.
Last I knew, the FCC was pretty clear that they were the only ones that had the power to regulate RF emissions. I wonder how easy it would be to get the FCC to tell the plaintiff to retract his case or face FCC fines.
:-)
I mean, hey, my neighbor was just fined tens of thousands of dollars by the FAA for launching a homemade balloon. They're serving jail time now. I don't want to mess with organizations matching the F[A-Z]{2} regex.
Sean
"...he could easily build a Faraday cage around his bed..."
YOU go and try it, really, STF up and go do it, see how "easy" it really is.
You FAIL!
You know, some days, I could really use a dark little Faraday cage. Would fit nicely inside my cube.
Issue 654
This one was http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/07/27/1514209/English-DJ-Claims-Wi-Fi-Allergy
Or maybe this guy's the real nutty deal.
I'd turn my electronics off at random times and for random intervals. I'd log every time I did that and for how long I had them powered down. Then, if the case went to court I'd throw the log out there and say, "I had my stuff powered off at these times, did you realize this and go back into your house?" When the paranoid litigant said "Uh, no." I'd ask for a case dismissal since it's pretty obvious the guy can't tell when his allergic reaction is kicking in or not.
One time, um, I read this trilogy of books by Timothy Zahn called Conqueror's Pride, and the aliens in it were susceptible to radio waves. So they thought the humans were attacking them, but really we were just communicating with radio waves, but it was hurting them so a war started. It was mostly a good trilogy. Mostly.
If not, it must not be harming you.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
That's what you get when you read /. at 2 am and you are falling asleep on the keyboard...
... he could really be suffering from this illness couldn't he? I mean, it's not beyond the bounds of reality that he has a weird physical make-up is it?
The county should test him properly and if he really is a sufferer they should paint his walls with metal paint.
On the other hand, if he is not found to be sensitive, then he should STOP PUBLISHING BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT, STOP CAMPAIGNING TO BAN WI-FI , AND LEAVE HIS NEIGHBOUR (an ex-friend of his I gather) THE F**K ALONE.
Also, if you street-map the address in the article you'll see that the place is strewn with overhead power lines (power lines in the US right?) so how come he didn't get sick beforehand?
There's only one thing that can alleviate the symptoms of electromagnetic allergies...
he needs MEDICAL MARIJUANA!
If he lives in Oregon or California, I'm sure he can find a doc to write him a 'scrip...
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
In other news, the Prime Minister released a press release today, explaining that recent government scandals were the result of "problems with the WiFi" which caused "mass delusions among Parliamentarians" which "made them do it." Mr. Brown promises that henceforth that the Parliamentary floor, retreats and other events will be WiFi-free in order to combat corruption. No word on Browning Street.
he must be suing at&t too, since their cell tower puts out FAR more electromagnetism than some guys phone. while hes on that, he should sue the earth its self for putting out such a strong field, or the sun, or himself, since he himself generates a small field. as does his tv. his radio. his car. pretty much anything made of metal, or has metal in it and uses some sort of electricity.
portfolio
How does this Luddite even now the SSID is broadcasting? I mean I would assume he has some kind of wireless sniffer which is working on the same band. Doesn't that undermine his argument right there?
What king of Allens would those be? Wrenches? Nuts? Heads? On a more serious note there was actually an SG1 episode of this same nature, called Entity season 4 episode 20.
Why is common sense called that if it's not common?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
Its a little scary but I dated a lady for a while who thought the government was using here for non lethal weapons testing, by hitting her with EM waves.
Pity... Good looking with a very nice body... Such a waste...
www.effectiveelectrons.com "chips that work" Analog, RF, Mixed Signal
100% of all Wi-Fi allergies can be cured with one change to your router settings: disable SSID broadcast.
So, the IRS is okay to mess with?
How about the CIA? NSA?
Hi, we're from the government, we're here to help.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
"lhc will not create a black hole"
actually it might. It's just that they will be smaller then an Atom and dissipate extremely fast. Even if they hit an atom, Hawking radiation will cause the black hole to dissipate.
Remember, a black hole only has the gravitation pull of it's mass.
"homeopathy has no scientific evidence." correction
homeopathy has no supporting scientific evidence.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
As some old /. article that i’m to lazy to find right now, stated.
Also, cue the countless counter-arguments to his “allergy” that are just as if not even more retarded. Like “Put him in a room, and turn the wireless on and off. Guaranteed he won't be able to tell the difference.” As if that was relevant.
But I wish he and his friends come here, and you all bash your heads in, until the few reasonable people remain. ^^ ;)
Protip: If you do not wonder what the point of (taking) sides in such discussions is, you will not remain.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The defense attorney should be asking whoever holds/held this guy's mortgage as to the status of that account. The summary states he has resorted to homelessness, so I can't help but wonder if this really was a voluntary response to Wi-Fi.
Also, perhaps a reasonable and appropriate resolution would be for the plaintiff to sell his urban home and move into the ass-end of nowhere. Surely his neighbor cannot be the only guy in Santa Fe with a wireless router, and probably isn't even the only neighbor with one. Not to mention that I'm willing to bet cell phones work just fine there, and they work in similar ways on similar frequencies. I think his only effective recourse is to remove himself from anywhere that has an abundance of such radiation.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
This guy is no different than the chemical sensitivity people who try to manipulate those around them because they have control issues. They want everyone to jump through these hoops, which gives them a positive feeling of having controlled those around them.
The neighbor could have simply changed his wifi to not broadcast the network name. When the annoying guy fired up his laptop to see if the neighbor had fulfilled his request to shut off the wireless, it would appear as though it is shut off. Then after a year, he could ask the annoying guy if shutting off the wifi helped his allergy. When the guy said, "Yes." Then the neighbor could explain that he had been running the wifi the whole time, but without broadcasting the network name.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I wonder if he's aware that the Earth has a strong electromagnetic field. Come to think of it... the Sun is probably wreaking havoc on his health too.
It's pretty clear he's mentally ill. Please show some compassion.
Your making a logical error, no such implication was made.
If you say "I don't like ketchup on my fries", it doesn't imply that you do like feces on them. Just that you do not like ketchup on fries.
I am allergic to several types of pollen. I am also allergic to some perfumes, and to cigarette smoke. I don't think I should be allowed to sue anyone for growing grass or crops, or wearing perfume. Even if he could prove he is allergic to the claimed types of EM radiation, he shouldn't be allowed to sue.
It's not impossible to be affected by WiFi or cellphones. When I used to have wireless internet in my house, I could sometimes feel a pressure in my ears when not far away from the transmitter/receiver. Some people are just much more sensitive than others. I doubt that a tinfoil hat would do anything, though. I think I remember hearing that one of the U.S. states was going to require a "may cause cancer" label on cellphones. Is it really so far-fetched to think someone could feel themselves being negatively affected by something like that? Maybe it's like a paper cut, huh? Some people can get one and recoil immediately and feel a lot of pain right away whereas others don't notice and later wonder where they got it...food for thought.
I suffer from Encrypted Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity. I wonder if I can sue all my neighbors for encrypting their WiFi. The encryption messes with my Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity.
I must be allergic to Microsoft Windows. Last time I used it I got rather red in the face. I must have been breaking out in hives.
I don't want to mess with government organizations matching the [A-Z]{3}regex ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It will star a Navvi' lawyer who gains fame suing the entire planet earth for deforestation of his planet and other environmental disasters caused by by 'drive by' visits by earthlings.
Budget for this mix of "Philadelhia" meet "Avatar" is estimated at over 330,000,000 and will use up the worlds' entire supply of "green screen" drop cloths, as soon as he learns how Cristo wrapped the Reichstag.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Can you explain the test setup you used to make sure the effect was not random chance?
1. How many tests in different areas did you do?
2. How many false positives and false negatives were there?
- A false positive would be the stick moving and their being no water immediately below.
- A false negative would be you stopping somewhere where the stick did not move, and digging there, and finding water.
3. What was the distribution of water underground where you were, so that one might calculate the chance of randomly finding it?
4. What criteria did you use to determine whether water was found versus not found?
Science is way harder to do right than most people think. And we haven't even started
to talk about statistical significance yet.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Seems like after that musician wi-fi incident, he is just trying his luck.
If the suing culture continues in America like this, it won't be long before someone sues their parents for not being 6-feet tall.
So they're actually claiming to have problems due to less electromagnetic radiation. I wonder how badly they're affected by cats or synthetic shirts.
Just because you don't want it to be a problem doesn't mean it couldn't be a problem.
Its radiation - some scientists are already calling it "electronic fog" most people in modern cities are receiving electromagnetic radiation billions of times more powerful than what we have evolved through during the last billion years. That is potentially a problem.
Austrian Medical Association are strongly advocating there be no wifi networks in or around schools (yes, think of the children for once). In the UK it was removed from a school again when a teacher started getting sick.
In a hundred years humans may be looking back and saying "what were the idiots thinking, that they could just bake their brains in electromagnetic radiation and not suffer ill effects"
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Good point!
Watch out for the Federal Highway Administration; they are sneaky.
At least for GSM frequencies: 84 subjects (for total 600 trials) had to guess if mobile phone was on, or if it state changed. If one had 3 out of 4 right, 50 euro reward was given. No-one claimed that, even if there was six persons that told being very sensitive to "mobile phone radiation".
Also some other tests were done about effects on humans, but with no results. Kwon, Myoung Soo: Effects of mobile phone electromagnetic field: behavioral and neurophysiological measurements, PhD thesis.
Falling asleep on the keyboard at only 2 AM? Time to turn in your geek badge.
There isn't. No place for him to go where he could find relief, unless he builds himself a Faraday cage to live in. Doesn't matter what his neighbor does or not.
Cosmic microwave background radiation is broadcasting at 2.4Ghz. There is literally no place outside of a Faraday cage in this entire universe he could be happy.
Also, this is a good article.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I doubt he's really allergic either, but you are as much of quackpot as he is for your blind certainty (without evidence) that it's not affecting him.
Anyone else notice that the guy in the image is wearing a shirt with a ham radio call sign?
SKYWATCHERS AND COMMUNICATORS, KC2UFO [Club]
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
While I am an engineering student who has taken enough physics courses to not believe in Wi-Fi allergies... Allergies really don't work that way. I should know, as I'm allergic to a LOT of things (wheat, eggs, peanuts, some fishes, dust, many animals, apples and many other fruit, milk [yeah, allergic. not lactose intolerant], etc.. list goes on and those have all been tested several times in labs).
For example, eggs. It's one of those allergies that can send people into the shock and cause deaths, but I've occasionally had a brainfart and eaten an omelet before realizing "Ohhh shit.... shit shit shit..." and then not gotten any problems at all. Peanut allergy is similar: Most people who have it can occasionally eat it and suffer no consequences (perhaps a little coughing), other times the same amounts could cause life threatening situation. With animal allergies it's kinda similar: I'm allergic to dogs and cats and could never have one as a pet but I can sleep a night or two in a relatively clean home that has such and suffer little (if any) problems. There are numerous variables at work here. How healthy are you feeling generally, how much have you slept, what other allergies are active, etc. etc. Just because something causes you notable problems in the long run doesn't mean you could sense it immediatelly.
WiFi doesn't have enough power to penetrate deep into your body. As such, I can assume that if such allergy would exist, it would have to be something close to surface. IE. itch, dryness of eyes, headaches, etc... Let's say that your eyes can sense it somehow but nearly unnoticeably to you. However, if that continues for long, you often get a headache. Kinda like the difference between watching a 50Hz screen and 70Hz screen. The one with lower refresh rate is more likely to give you a headache if you watch it for hours... That sort of thing is not impossible to test, but it isn't very easy either.
Hell, doctors can't even test more regular allergies that well. I have been twice to allergy tests in labs: One time in public hospital (socialized healthcare in my country), one time in a private clinic. The methods that were used to tests these varied (they pushed very big, uncomfourtable tongs up my nose in the hospital to take samples for the labs but in the private clinic they made very small cuts to my skin, applied the substances and waited a moment to see the results). The results also varied (for example, the skin test didn't reveal my dust allergy).
Just apply for the JREF Million Dollar Challenge. With your ability it should be childs play.
Remember, there are no stupid questions. But there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Getting a profit from criminal activity is illegal. If he made fraudulent claims in his books and got anything from selling those books he has no right to keep it. The county should confiscate everything he got and give it to the neighbors he has been harassing.
If the guy is sensing it, then its no longer paranormal. There has to be a normal explanation to it. /. fall right into it..
Randi is intimidating every applicant, is deciding the tests and who gets to try. He is also the judge and juror, and might call for another, different test at any time if the test succeeds (which has actually happened).
Randis price is just a scam, he will never pay out anything, as the rules state it has to be paranormal - which doesnt exist.
What is funny is that so many naive
I watched a documentary of sorts about EM allergies. I found it quite funny that some of these people carried with them a meter that would tell them the level of EM radiation (reminded me of a dB meter) so they would know when to be anxious.
I imagine proving whether a person is really "allergic" to EM radiation on a frequency range would be very simple in a double blind test. Could it be the case that even if somebody does have reactions, and can prove it, no-one will believe it anyway?
Personally though, I think these people need help dealing with their irrational fears. Then again, it's really up to them to seek help, which is in turn unlikely because of all the attention they get because of their "affliction".
Ummm, because the french have actually been in a lot of wars (50 major european wars since 1500) and won 2/3 of all wars they've been in(since records began)?
I'd mod this up if I could as it is otherwise sure to get lost in the rubbish posted on slapdash.
You forgot Steve and Woody.
X-rays can cause electron emission, but I don't know if there would be enough for you to sense a current through your body. The only way I know how to produce x-rays from an electrical source is to accelerate electrons and collide them into metal. It's possible what they are feeling is the electrostatic field in which the electrons are accelerated. It's also possible they are imagining the whole thing.
James Randi is a true believer in his own personal Church of Science.
The problem is that science doesn't require or encourage belief - it encourages knowledge. When you make up crazy-assed beliefs in the name of science, that's just as bad as belief in the paranormal. (Actually it's worse, because science is about proof.)
I saw a documentary about paranormal phenomena, and one of the topics was dowsing. They showed a stunt pulled by Randi to try to "find" dowsers - except he completely ignored what they claimed dowsing was, and invented his own test. Needless to say, they all failed.
One of the people in the documentary (who didn't participate in the stunt) was a former geophysicist who worked for a well-drilling company as a dowser. He claimed that he could detect the presence of natural water sources, including the depth and flow rate, and his margin of error was less than 20%. The documentary asked Randi about the claim, and Randi proceeded to invent his own reasoning as to how the guy did it, including things like "oh, he's a geophysicist, so he must be using his knowledge of that to do it" - which (if you know anything about geology) is completely absurd.
James Randi badmouths "true believers", when in reality his belief structure is not just as bad - it's worse because it's tied to something that is provable, but instead of using that provability, he invents wild-assed belief structures around it.
While proteins are among the most common causes of immune response, they are certainly not the only thing capable of invoking it. Carbohydrates and small molecule compoundscan elicit response as well. Look at common examples like nickel sulfate hexahydrate responsible for the allergic reaction to low purity gold or penicillin allergy.
They constantly pay radio stations to broadcast music into my head. Where did I put my tin foil hat again...
Occam's razor would make me go for the second option unless I can see evidence proving otherwise.
He could be tested easily enough for his ability to detect wifi networks merely by war driving.