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School Spying Scandal Gets Even More Bizarre

Several sources following the recent school webcam spying debacle are reporting that an even stranger twist has surfaced. The student in question that was disciplined for an "improper act" was apparently accused of either drug use or drug selling. Turns out he was eating Mike & Ike candy, not popping pills. While there is probably more to this story than has made it to the general public, the officials involved have done a particularly bad job of actually managing the events.

699 comments

  1. Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah...because Mike & Ikes look just like illicit drugs. Completely ignoring the privacy aspect of this story, a school official mistaking freakin' Mike & Ikes for drugs is beyond comprehension.

    http://www.illinoisnut.com/products/mainLarge_1028200752854pm.jpg

    That looks quite unlike any drug I've ever heard of or seen.

    1. Re:Ugh. by zoomshorts · · Score: 0

      Good thing he was not eating Good and Plenty, which looks more like drugs than Mike and Ike
      http://tinyurl.com/y9482p4

    2. Re:Ugh. by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      mike & ikes are the size of friggin horse pills. I know for a fact i wouldnt want to swallow one of those whole.

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    3. Re:Ugh. by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude these drugs look awesome, where can I get some and how much are you asking?

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    4. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those you saw are the suppository size.

    5. Re:Ugh. by daremonai · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, Mike and Ikes are criminally delicious - this makes perfect sense.

    6. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Because the actual horse pills I have seen are the size of a roll of nickles. I don't remember Mike & Ikes being that big.

    7. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I chew all of my illicit substances.

    8. Re:Ugh. by skine · · Score: 1

      The drugs don't necessarily have to be illicit. For example, Dayquil/Nyquil tabs viewed over a cheap webcam would appear similar to Mike & Ikes.

      http://media.nowpublic.net/images//f1/b/f1b6b896b9c916f2b630080151d3d422.jpg

      While they aren't illegal, it's possible that they have older pills/generic pills that still allow them to Robotrip.

      (This is, of course, all besides the fact that the school obviously did something illegal, and it doesn't really matter either way)

    9. Re:Ugh. by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah...because Mike & Ikes look just like illicit drugs.

      Additionally I'd argue it's none of the school's fucking business what candy OR illegal drugs the student was taking when he was not at school. If the student were taking poison, committing suicide, then the school officials have a duty to report it and they'd be thanked for that after their jail sentences for being peeping toms.

    10. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nasty, never heard of using Day/Nyquil to robotrip. I see no way that could end well, what with all the other crap in there.

      I have no problems with kids experimenting with drugs (illegal or otherwise)...but they should at least educate themselves on how to stay safe.

    11. Re:Ugh. by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Funny

      Correct. We would have also accepted "snacktacular".

    12. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Because the actual horse pills I have seen are the size of a roll of nickles. I don't remember Mike & Ikes being that big.

      You haven't seen the Mike & Ike suppositories, I take it?

    13. Re:Ugh. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Additionally I'd argue it's none of the school's fucking business what candy OR illegal drugs the student was taking when he was not at school.

      Or legal drug. Checking my most recent Prescription reference book, drugs come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Is the school admin a pharmacist? I think not, so what the f*ck does he know? Unless, of course, they look like something the admin is using... :-)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    14. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people experiment with ways to alter consciousness from a young age, including spinning around. If they're going to do it, they ought to have the information they need to be safe, not a brick wall of silence. Same goes for sex, another popular way to alter consciousness, among other things.

    15. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I experimented with a rather wide range through my late teens. Never got arrested, never freaked out, never had a bad trip, never lost a job, and aside from the good memories I have from the experiences, no long term side effects.

      I made sure to research ANY substance before taking it...what I shouldn't mix it with (i.e. will drinking orange juice and taking this pill kill me), what kind of environment I should be in, potential side effects, how to deal with them, etc. erowid.org was responsable for me having safe and very enjoyable late teen years.

      Remember, drug use and drug abuse are two different things.

    16. Re:Ugh. by snowraver1 · · Score: 1

      I'm confused... Are you saying that Asprin is not a drug, or that it is dangerous? Drugs are not necessarily dangerous... No question, there are dangerous drugs, just like there are harmless ones. The problem is that the gov't/schools tells you that ALL drugs are bad and will kill you if you even touch them. Then when kids try pot, the see that the gov't was lying, and think that maybe the gov't was lying about the cocaine too, so they try it.

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      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    17. Re:Ugh. by zero_out · · Score: 1

      While I've never done it myself, I have heard that ecstasy (or X) tastes horrible and has a tendency to get stuck on the way down. Supposedly, you can mask the taste by shoving it into a gummy bear (or Mike & Ike) and swallow it whole.

    18. Re:Ugh. by dsoltesz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is one of the problems I have with the story: drugs taken legally are medicine... not only did the child have an expectation of privacy, but he's covered by some pretty heavy medical privacy laws to boot. Not sure how good the web cam images are, but the kid could have been taking any variety of medicines, vitamin E, flaxseed oil, etc. that are all very roughly the same size and shape as the candy. There were too many potential explanations for what the kid was doing, yet the administrator accuses him of drug abuse?

      Is anyone even showing up for classes at the school? I woulda yanked my kid out of there in a heartbeat.

    19. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh I could see someone making the mistake, they aren't always that colorful if I remember correctly, however they shouldn't have been looking anyway so how does it matter?

    20. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Speaking from personal experience, you've heard wrong. Or at least, there was no taste with pills that were mostly MDMA cut with small amounts of DXM.

      Home testing kits and ecstasydata.org are essential for safe experimentation.

    21. Re:Ugh. by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Funny

      I melt my Mike & Ikes on a spoon, and then load them into a hypo and inject you insensitive clod.

    22. Re:Ugh. by Inda · · Score: 1

      The green ones are the best. New batch. Double drop man.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    23. Re:Ugh. by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Illicit and illegal are different. The Dayquil/Nyquil usage you mentioned would be illicit. "Contrary to normal morality." Giant horse pills of ecstasy would be the illegal bit.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    24. Re:Ugh. by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 4, Funny

      That looks quite unlike any drug I've ever heard of or seen.

      Apparently you missed the 70s...

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    25. Re:Ugh. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      a school official mistaking freakin' Mike & Ikes for drugs is beyond comprehension

      Beyond comprehension? Surely you didn't go through the school system yourself? If you had, you'd be less than surprised...

    26. Re:Ugh. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      not all kids are automatically predisposed to drug experimentation

      Ah, I see you were home schooled. Try getting out to the public (or even private) schools sometime. You will re-think your statement.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    27. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      and aside from the good memories I have from the experiences, no long term side effects

      Memories? What memories?

    28. Re:Ugh. by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of an old PSA. Stupid little jingle that still gets in my head, but is probably a much better message than simply "Don't do drugs."

      Thing went "Drugs drugs drugs, some are good, some are bad, drugs drugs drugs, ask your mom or ask your dad."

      Also had a line "Watch it now man, it's trouble with the law." No overly scare-tactics of "you're gonna DIE!" Just explaining that there's some stuff out there that's dangerous, get more information, and be more careful, some can get you arrested. It was just a 30 second PSA aimed at kids, so they couldn't get hyper-specific or anything, but I think it was a good idea of how the issue *should* be approached.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    29. Re:Ugh. by bhima · · Score: 4, Insightful

      my god. the kids today are retarded.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    30. Re:Ugh. by mrdoogee · · Score: 1

      That's nothing! I once saw an AC who didn't understand hyperbole!

    31. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nights spent staring up at the stars with friends, contemplating our purpose and place in the universe. The night I robo'd with a few other people and we watched every movie John Hughes ever made in a long marathon. The time myself and a few friends took some shrooms, laid in the back yard with our heads together, and felt the life force of everyone in the group shifting back and forth through each others heads.

      Those kinds of memories. Hippie drug-induced gibberish to some, life changing experiences that help you deal with anything you encounter in real life for others.

      For myself, these memories are the latter.

    32. Re:Ugh. by thepooh81 · · Score: 1

      not all kids are automatically predisposed to drug experimentation

      Ah, I see you were home schooled.

      And I can see that you were not.

    33. Re:Ugh. by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

      Actually, you're wrong about the home schooling, but you might be right about the rest. I could be a bit out of touch - probably due to all the fuckin' dope I did. I guess I overestimated kids these days - I must be having a "get off my lawn" moment.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    34. Re:Ugh. by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He's certainly not a pharmacist, but I'm sure he's very soon to be a defendant.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    35. Re:Ugh. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      It is just different drugs, that is all. Now they are raiding mommy and daddy's prescriptions instead of buying street drugs.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    36. Re:Ugh. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Correct, I was not. The socialization aspect of school was important to myself and my parents, so we decided that I would go and interact with my peers. I don't regret it for a second. Your parents job is already to teach you what they know - if you ever want to know more than your parents do, then home schooling may not be the best choice.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    37. Re:Ugh. by ebuck · · Score: 1

      So you're basically saying that the school didn't even bother to buy the laptop with decent camera resolution. Go figure.

    38. Re:Ugh. by Khyber · · Score: 0, Redundant

      "Yeah...because Mike & Ikes look just like illicit drugs."

      Shit, son, you apparently have never seen a triple or quad stack of X before.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    39. Re:Ugh. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Apparently he missed the 90's with the triple/quad/quint-stacked X pills, too.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    40. Re:Ugh. by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      I am guessing that even after it has been pointed out. Your public education failed you so badly that you still did not realize that you can not spell.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    41. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is anyone even showing up for classes at the school? I woulda yanked my kid out of there in a heartbeat.

      If you really care about them, don't put them through public school. Not just because of idiocy like this, the blatant hypocrisy, the moronic "zero tolerance" policies, the discipline issues those have utterly failed to correct, but also because it's a much lower-quality and less challenging education. Public school is training for sheeple. It teaches six lessons and that's the real curriculum. I would gladly accept a lower standard of living and fewer material luxuries to know that my conscience is clear, to know I did not put a child through a substandard joke like our public schools.

    42. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Never went past the doubles because I didn't see a reason to. I wanted to still be concious enough to remember the experience and not make an ass of myself.

    43. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I have, and they aren't 100% comprised of squishy gelatin.

      If someone gave me an oblong-shaped bit of gelatin and told me it was X, I wouldn't take it even if it was free. X is a slippery slope enough as it is, even with pill testers you never truly know what is in there. I sure as hell know I wouldn't touch anything that looked like gelatin and pushed as X unless it was just a gel cap filled with crushed powder (and even then I likely wouldn't, since it would be harder to test.)

    44. Re:Ugh. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Hell you could've done ten without too much problem (as long as it was clean.) but you'd certainly be dehydrated to shit.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    45. Re:Ugh. by Anarchitektur · · Score: 1

      Mike & Ike candies actually do somewhat resemble the rainbow-colored pills featured in propaganda pieces such as "Drugs Are Like That" (recently featured on Rifftrax.com). Now, granted, that has no basis in reality, but this wouldn't be the first time a school's administration has been utterly clueless.

    46. Re:Ugh. by _KiTA_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do they honestly expect us to believe they just happened to be looking at this boy in his home at the exact moment he happened to eat his candy, or were they watching him to see if he did anything?

      If the latter, what gives them the right to watch students outside of school property for infractions? They're not police officers, and even if they somehow made the argument that they were... I'd love to see the warrant they had for this.

      At the very least, these people need to lose their jobs. There may also need to be some legal action taken. Perhaps a law specifically prohibiting this sort of thing in the future -- since you know there are little dictator wannabe school administrators out there who think the only bad thing about this story is the school had to stop.

    47. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, I was public schooled also. I do not see the spelling error. Could you please point it out for us morons?

    48. Re:Ugh. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 0

      I recall an old episode of Captain Planet where the blonde Russian chick gets addicted to drugs that are fed to her in a burrito. The drugs somewhat resembled Mike and Ikes. I think the problem here is that the school administer watched too much Captain Planet....Transformers was better.

    49. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I couldn't. MDMA was always super-effective in me, and double stacks were more than enough for my needs. I very likely could have handled more than that with no problem, but I just didn't see a reason to try it since I was already getting what I wanted out of the experience.

      There is a very good reason I never once had a bad drug experience despite extensive experimentation as a teen, and that is because I knew and never exceeded my personal limits :-) Even now that the only "drug" I take is alcohol, I still have never had a hangover or puked from drinking. Ever.

    50. Re:Ugh. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Oh man, late 70s early 80s, now there was a time. great drugs and safe sex was a padded headboard. Anybody remember Ludes? Man those were nice. Like a comfy bean bag chair for your brain. pot wasn't as good, but the Opium made up for it....what was I talking about again?

      As for these school Big Brother wannabes, I'm really not surprised. The amount of nosiness, hatred, and just plain bigotry by even the teachers in public school today is why we home schooled my boys. With one being Catholic and the other gay the amount of shit they got from teachers and even the principal, man I wished I could have talked my sister into suing, the boys would have gotten their college for free. One is about to take his GED and has medical school all lined up, the other hasn't decided on whether to go graphic arts or be a chef. But it really doesn't surprised me that given any power the first thing they did was abuse it.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    51. Re:Ugh. by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    52. Re:Ugh. by BattleApple · · Score: 1

      It seems the drugs may have burned out the humor detection part of your brain

    53. Re:Ugh. by Joe+U · · Score: 2, Funny

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      Especially at home. It's a real drag having to call the school nurse to come over at 8pm when you have a fever.

    54. Re:Ugh. by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      I personally think I'd have a hard time telling a pill-shaped candy from an actual pill from a web cam video/picture. This could arguably be less than a couple dozen pixels in the entire image, from typically low-res, low-quality cameras.

      I'd still leave this in the category of poor judgment, and overreaching their authority, and not poor vision.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    55. Re:Ugh. by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      Not since I 'applied with a gentle but firm hand'. Why, am I supposed to check on them or something?

    56. Re:Ugh. by anotherone · · Score: 1

      It might've been the John Hughes movies.

      --
      Username taken, please choose another one.
    57. Re:Ugh. by BobMcD · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I sent my son to school with Carmex for his severely chapped lips. It was confiscated and they sent home a nasty note stating roughly the above phrase.

    58. Re:Ugh. by martinX · · Score: 1

      Bet they don't confiscate lip gloss from the girls. Call it a cosmetic moisturiser and tell them to get stuffed.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    59. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would it be worse than robitussin? And what is all the "other crap in there"? nyquil only has 2 or 3 active ingredients.

    60. Re:Ugh. by Golddess · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as a harmless drug, only a harmless dosage.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    61. Re:Ugh. by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Clearly you've never eaten Mike & Ikes because they're definitely a drug. It took me years to get off of them and I'm now losing my horrific man breasts. They never show you the dark side of Mike & Ike.

    62. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am guessing that even after it has been pointed out. Your public education failed you so badly that you still did not realize that you can not spell.

      I'm guessing you're not happy with the lack of an apostrophe after "parents"? That grammar is as improper as the "terse tense twists" of you still did not realize that you can not spell"
      What's next, Q.E.D?

      Me fail English? That's unpossible.

    63. Re:Ugh. by John+Meacham · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I want to know is why they didn't call the police about a possible overdose/suicide when they saw him eating a few dozen of what they thought were pills? I mean, who eats just one or two mike&ikes?

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    64. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your parents job is already to teach you what they know

      There should be an apostrophe.

      And for Dishevel, apparently you can not spell correctly (you chose not to). But you cannot deny that there is a difference between "can not" and "cannot".

    65. Re:Ugh. by DustyShadow · · Score: 5, Funny

      $25 a box at your local movie theater.

    66. Re:Ugh. by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait, your sister is your boys' mother?

      Sorry to bring it up. It's just uncommon and taboo. I'm not condemning.

      (Did the boys turn out okay? Aside from the Catholicism?)

    67. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Mraijuana is harmless at ALL dosages.. Well youd have to smoke an ounce in like 15 min, but then you just fall asleep, and wake up feeling great. --- Im serious about this.. look it up if you dont believe me.

    68. Re:Ugh. by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I know not seems. It depends entirely on the person.

      You just don't ever hear about the people who educate themselves and experiment out of curiosity and exhibit care.

      Well you do.... you just don't hear about them because of their drug use.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    69. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the person with "Silvio Berlusco" in their sig.

      ni!

    70. Re:Ugh. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hi Bhima. I recall my younger brother (this was 35 years ago or so) smoking grass from the back yard and agreeing with his friend about how high they were getting.

      I don't think kids today are any more retarded...

    71. Re:Ugh. by the_hellspawn · · Score: 0

      Oh yummy goodness!

      --
      "The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender
    72. Re:Ugh. by ubercam · · Score: 1

      No pills, no powders, no needles, but if it's still in plant form when you buy it, it's likely not going to kill you.

    73. Re:Ugh. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      After reading Poljut's statement, I think it might be time for a re-re-thinking...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    74. Re:Ugh. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Yes, becasue everybody knows that all poisons are man-made, and nothing nature ever produces could ever hurt us.

      P.S. Go outside and pick some mushrooms and eat them. See what happens.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    75. Re:Ugh. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Most home-made gelcaps are made from carnauba wax - the same wax used in making most candies.

      Know your source is the general rule, here.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    76. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 5, Informative

      Acetaminophen is one of the active ingredients in NyQuil. In order to ingest enough DXM through NyQuil in order to robotrip, you would ingest FAR more acetaminophen than what would generally be considered "safe". Death is a very real possibility from ingesting too much acetaminophen (this usually occurs when people ingest multiple bottles/boxes of medicine that has acetaminophen in it), and it wreaks absolute havok on your liver in even moderate doses. NyQuil also contains doxylamine as an active ingredient, which just pushes your liver to work even harder than it already would be from the acetaminophen and DXM. If you plan on robotripping, the three safest ways are Robitussin Max (only active ingredient is DXM), Robitussin gelcaps (again, DXM is the only active ingredient, although the gelcaps cause some people to vomit), or DXM powder loaded in gel-caps (DXM in powdered form is considered a controlled substance however, and requires a federal license to purchase...so that isn't a realistic option.) I would recommend any robotripper stay away from any and all other options other than the three I just outlined.

      That being said, DXM in general is harmful to your liver. The same enzyme that breaks down dextromethorphan is also the same enzyme that breaks down alcohol...that's one of the reasons why mixing robo with booze is so dangerous. You can overload your liver really easily, and if you don't give yourself enough of a break between robo trips you can cause serious and permanent damage to your liver (one-two weeks per "plateau" achieved is the commonly followed rule.)

      More info here: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm.shtml

      Remember, people: know your drug before it knows you. Stay happy, and trip safe.

    77. Re:Ugh. by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that Asprin is not a drug, or that it is dangerous?

      Dunno about him, but aspirin is most certainly dangerous - go much past recommended dosage and you can kill your liver. If you do, it takes about a week to die.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    78. Re:Ugh. by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Is the school admin a pharmacist? I think not, so what the f*ck does he know?

      What if he is a pharmacist? How could you possibly have enough information from a webcam to determine what the pill is even you are a skilled expert?

      I bet putting the pill right up to the webcam and slowly turning it would *still* not provide enough information for a pharmacist to identify it.

      It's complete bullshit to be able to say you can identify the pill from a webcam still shot.

    79. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that Asprin is not a drug, or that it is dangerous?

      Dunno about him, but aspirin is most certainly dangerous

      'Way too subtle - OP is stupid and will never understand.

    80. Re:Ugh. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      What if he is a pharmacist? How could you possibly have enough information from a webcam to determine what the pill is even you are a skilled expert?

      Of course. I was being facetious. It's even sometimes hard to identify a pill when it's in your hand. The school admin is an idiot and soon to be unemployed and/or in jail.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    81. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      Bullshit. I have an emergency Albuterol inhaler that I carry with me. I don't need to see the school nurse to use it.

      Also, it's spelled "aspirin", not "asprin".

    82. Re:Ugh. by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      Additionally I'd argue it's none of the school's fucking business what candy OR illegal drugs the student was taking when he was not at school.

      Agreed, but...

      Let me preface this with "I personally think what the school board did was bloody wrong", and also with "parents should be taking responsibility for their kids' actions".

      I can see how a system like this can get approved, put in place, and have the vast majority of the stakeholders agree that it's a good idea-- including the parents.

      There's a perfect storm brewing in the administration side of schools these days. School boards are scared shitless of lawsuits. They're absolutely terrified of them, and will do anything, literally anything, to avoid them. Parents know this, and will drop a threat of a LS on absolutely anything they feel their child deserves.

      Again, I know _you_ wouldn't, reader. Hopefully that commendable attitude remains when it's your kid in the crosshairs. But that's neither here nor there-- the fact remains there are a significant number of parents who will.

      My fiance is a high-school teacher. In recent years, teachers have been expected to be responsible for the safety and well-being of their students even outside of the school setting. At a bar, and see your 16 year old student having a drink? You need to report that, or you will be held professionally liable for anything that may happen to that student.

      Why liable? Because if anything does happen to Tipsy McStudent-- and Mr. and Mrs. McStudent find out that a teacher saw it-- well, dammnit, why wasn't someone looking out to make sure nothing bad happens to their kid? LAWSUIT!

      It used to be parents would just threaten lawsuits when their student was failing (because it isn't the kids' fault...). Not anymore.

      The current rumblings going through the administration is to make it a teacher's responsibility to patrol student's online activities, to prevent cyberbullying. Why? Because someone's kid was bullied online (outside of school, not using school equipment...), and invoked the magic word: "Lawsuit!"

      And thus goes the perfect storm. Each time the administration folds to the parents, the harder the parents push, and the easier it is to get the administration to fold.

      It's just a short leap of (diseased) logic from "You should have teachers protecting my kid on their facebook" to "Teachers should protect my child at all times, so nothing bad ever happens to them-- or I'll sue you."

      And it becomes a short leap of (again, diseased) logic from "We need our teachers to watch the students" to "And now here's the tools to do it."

      The rest is Pennsylvania.

      As egregious as the administration's behaviour is in the PA case, the far worse crime is letting it get to this point. The only way out of this is for school boards everywhere to stand up to bullying parents (and that's what they are). Parent has an unreasonable demand? No, we will not do that. Parent threatens an lawsuit. BRING IT ON, MOTHERFUCKER! If any of them actually follow through, drag them through the system and make them make a fool of themselves in public record. Get a history of not taking shit, and getting favorable precedence on your side.

      Parents (the good ones, Slashdot, the good ones), do your part, too. Join the PTA. Identify the troublesome parents. Do what it takes to get them to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. Vote them out of power. Publicly berate them for putting their child's entitlement ahead of everyone else's education. Start a class-action lawsuit against them for impeding everyone else's well being.

      At your next parent teacher meeting, spend five minutes and as your kid's teacher about some of the ridiculous policies their expected to enforce.

    83. Re:Ugh. by McGiraf · · Score: 1

      "That looks quite unlike any drug I've ever heard of or seen."

      The only time I heard a drug was while I was tripping out on L... err forget it.

    84. Re:Ugh. by jhantin · · Score: 1

      Dunno about him, but aspirin is most certainly dangerous - go much past recommended dosage and you can kill your liver. If you do, it takes about a week to die.

      You're probably thinking of paracetamol. Aspirin poisoning is more likely to fill your lungs with fluid than trash your liver.

      --
      ...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
    85. Re:Ugh. by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      "You take the Mike & Ike, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the Hot Tamale, you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

      Actually, original Mike & Ikes don't include any blues. You have to get one of the alternate mixes.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    86. Re:Ugh. by Unkyjar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just a silly statement. That's like me saying,"Air isn't dangerous, unless we force 200 cubic feet of it into your lungs all at once."

    87. Re:Ugh. by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      Apostrophe? Isn't that a punctuation error and not a spelling one?

    88. Re:Ugh. by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Okay, okay, sorry about the offensive Catholicism comment.

      I do in fact think that religion is generally a problem, but I also think that that Jesus guy was onto something with the idea of loving everyone. If you're Catholic, I believe you're probably not as well as you could be, but I still love you.

    89. Re:Ugh. by an+unsound+mind · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's impossible to smoke marijuana in a dosage to kill you... this does not make it harmless.

      Plus, the effective ingredient, THC? It's entirely possible to take enough THC to kill yourself.

      We have far too little research to know if marijuana is harmless or not - the associated mental problems might be very dangerous.

    90. Re:Ugh. by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      Ah, ZT.

      Any common sense must first be stoned to death before it can be allowed to affect the students.

    91. Re:Ugh. by Hydian · · Score: 1

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      Always? Including when they are at home as in this case?

    92. Re:Ugh. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      The father didn't bother and my sister died on the operating table twice during the second's birth and frankly never was the same again, so I ended up taking over the father role. Sis never did get her strength back and finally passed on this last year so for most of their lives I have been doing my best to fill both roles as best I could.

      Considering one is about to start med school, complete with all kinds of grants lined up, and the other has the aptitude and skills to be his choice of a graphic artist or chef, I'd say I did pretty well considering. Soon after she became pregnant with her second her husband got involved with drugs, last I heard he is in a halfway house with Hep C. the only nice thing I can say about their father is he made a damned good example of what NOT to be.

      But I'd say being there for them every minute for the past 18 years has earned me the right to call them my boys, don't you agree?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    93. Re:Ugh. by russotto · · Score: 1

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      Of course, school nurses will not actually dispense aspirin or other analgesics, or antihistamines or decongestants, or any other over the counter medication for that matter. They'll only dispense prescription medicine with a doctors note, preferably signed in blood. And often not even then.

      They also will not dispense Mike&Ikes.

    94. Re:Ugh. by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 1

      It seems like you're predisposed to talking out of your ass. The GP poster was right.

    95. Re:Ugh. by abuelos84 · · Score: 0

      Bill Hicks... Is that you?

      --
      -- Counting backwards since 1984!
    96. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You take the red Mike & Ike - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

    97. Re:Ugh. by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      So your boys' mother is your sister. I wasn't hallucinating. It's just not the situation one might guess off the bat.

      Well, props to you sir for being a man. And twice a parent. (Or four times? Acting as mother and father x 2 kids?)

      The measures of their and your success seem to indicate that they and you have done well. Congratulations. If they are also good people who generally care about others, no more could be asked.

    98. Re:Ugh. by drfreak · · Score: 1

      And for that price, they should be dipped in acid blotter!

    99. Re:Ugh. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Pot, you cannot toke enough to kill you.

    100. Re:Ugh. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell would you do that?

      MDMA is fine, but DXM is some bad shit. Dissociatives are not fun.

    101. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      For myself, I found pure MDMA to be a little too much...cut with a very small amount of DXM dropped the intensity down just enough. I also noticed the comedown was a lot slower and the blues didn't seem to hit as hard.

      For my own needs, it worked.

    102. Re:Ugh. by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      P.S. Go outside and pick some mushrooms and eat them. See what happens

      Obligatory Slashdot anal-retentiveness: mushrooms aren't plants

      That said, a rhubarb-leaf salad would do you in nicely.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    103. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I'll sell them to you for $200.00 a box if you meet me in the alleyway.

    104. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, dis is a webcam y'know?

    105. Re:Ugh. by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      We have far too little research to know if marijuana is harmless or not - the associated mental problems might be very dangerous.

      While I'm only going to say that this statement is an example of willful ignorance, I'd really like to point out that we have plenty of legal drugs available that have proven to be fantastically dangerous. Health of the user is not a concern, and never has been.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    106. Re:Ugh. by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      You mean E ... not X? At least in Canada.

    107. Re:Ugh. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      While the younger one hasn't decided what he wants to do yet, the oldest wants to become either a doctor without borders or work with the poor. And I'm sure no matter whether he becomes a graphic artist (the things that boy can do with just a Genius pad and his imagination) or a chef I'm sure he'll be helping those around him as well.

      So while I spent about 3 years sleeping while moving like a fricking shark (the youngest was born sickly and would only rest while being rocked) I am proud to say that wherever my sis is I'm sure she'd be proud. Both have become the kind of men that would stop to help someone in need, and want to leave this world a better place than they found it. Yeah, I think sis would be proud.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    108. Re:Ugh. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      It's a tough situation. On one side, you have your kid who's now stuck with either putting up with chapped lips (I get this badly in cold weather, so sympathise) or potentially embarrassing him by heading up to the school with the letter and tearing the headteacher a new one.

      Knowing what I do now, I'd go for the latter. Eating food with your lips falling apart is one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever done. I never leave home without a jar of Carmex in the winter months (to the point that I have one in every coat I own. I'm a little forgetful).

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    109. Re:Ugh. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Nicotine rush.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    110. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can remember it you weren't there.

    111. Re:Ugh. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      It's already got class action status, trial by jury. The filed suit

      I've not heard of Craphound.com either, but the link is from this article

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    112. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that brick wall of silence could be very dangerous to run into, depending on how fast they're spinning. ouch

    113. Re:Ugh. by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I'll admit that Hicks (and subsequently Tool) played a large part in my teenage development, insofar as my state of mind was concerned. But those days are long gone...guess it's time to book a trip to Arizona Bay :-)

    114. Re:Ugh. by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the officials were really tweaking on meth when they saw the pictures.

    115. Re:Ugh. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Any drugs, even asprin must be administered by a school nurse. Always.

      If there had been a nurse at my school (in itself, that says something about the insanity of the Merkin healthcare paranoia), then I'm sure that I'd have enjoyed having her rub the thrush cream into my knob-end three times a day. What an excellent excuse to get off from History : "Sorry Teach, but I've got to go and get a hand job from Nursy. I'm sure that you can lecture on the Hapsburg lip with that image in your mind. And the 30-other sweaty boys in the classroom."

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    116. Re:Ugh. by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Silly though it may be, that does not make it untrue. The parent I was replying to said there is no such thing as a harmless drug. I was merely pointing out that in the right dosage, nothing is harmless.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    117. Re:Ugh. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's impossible to smoke marijuana in a dosage to kill you... this does not make it harmless.

      It is impossible to ingest a quantity of marijuana that will harm you, period, unless you eat enough of it to make your stomach burst. Marijuana is non-toxic.

      We have far too little research to know if marijuana is harmless or not - the associated mental problems might be very dangerous.

      Bullshit, study after study has been done for over half a century and none have shown any problem whatever with it, and it has been shown to have beneficial effects for many or most. People have been smoking pot for thousands of years; it's likely an older intoxicant that alcohol. How much study do you need to show that it is not only harmless but beneficial? A recent study showed that it negates the risk of lung cancer for cigarette smokers, for example. It has been shown to minimise the effects of some mental illnesses.

      All the problems attributed to marijuana are actually caused by the laws against it. If you're getting your "data" from the partnership for a drug-free america, you're getting misinformation and outright lies.

      I wonder what people support the outlawing of this harmless plant? It seems that there is one group of people who benefit from these laws -- the people who grow, import, and sell it, and the politicians they bribe.

    118. Re:Ugh. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Nobody ever said anything about mushrooms being plants, so not sure what you are talking about. A nice cup of hemlock tea would also go with the meal.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    119. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's gotten insane. I graduated HS in 1979 and a year or two before that I recall a girl being criticized by the teacher for chewing gum in class. The teacher immediately dropped it when the student informed them that it was Aspergum (a salicylate containing, OTC analgesic with chewing gum as the vehicle) Today the girl would probably be executed.

    120. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank God i don't live in that F*** up country.

    121. Re:Ugh. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Remember, drug use and drug abuse are two different things.

      That's right. It's only abuse if the drugs don't consent. ;)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    122. Re:Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right. Clearly what we're seeing is that home schooling vs. other schooling (whether public or private) is not a factor, there will always be self-righteous retards.

    123. Re:Ugh. by ubercam · · Score: 1

      I was hinting at pot without saying it outright, and I did also say that plants *PROBABLY* won't kill you. Of course there are hundreds of things you can eat which grow right in your back yard that are poisonous. I'm not a retard. We are, however, talking about drugs. Who buys rhubarb leaves from their dealer? Get real you guys..

    124. Re:Ugh. by dsoltesz · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Had I chosen to have children, I would have home-schooled them if my only other choice was to subject them to the public school system. However, the point really wasn't about my hypothetical kids, or the wisdom of the article's parents putting their kids in a public school. This kind of intrusiveness happens at charters and private schools, too.

  2. To be fair by jeff4747 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To be fair, the "Mike & Ike" claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying.

    But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

    1. Re:To be fair by 0racle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whether he was doing drugs or not is entirely irrelevant. If he was, there is no legal or moral way for the school to have found out unless he was caught doing it at the school.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:To be fair by Moheeheeko · · Score: 1

      He was also being watched on a school issue laptop, which is probably a lowest bidder laptop, which cant have the geatest webcam in the world.

    3. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      the one-to-one program is supported by apple and mac books....

    4. Re:To be fair by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could have caught him cutting open his little sister for all I care.

      The school claims the system was only used to locate stolen laptops. If the kid's laptop had indeed been reported as stolen to the school, all 'bad things' that it caught (like him masturbating) isn't the school's fault.

      If it HADN'T been reported stolen, then they have no 'get out of jail free card' on seeing him cutting open his little sister. They're still guilty of illegal wire tapping and if they've done it once, it really should be up to them to prove, no-one has been using the system to spy on people.

    5. Re:To be fair by jimbolauski · · Score: 0, Troll

      The kid needs to shut his mouth they have a slam dunk case anything he says can only hurt his case.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    6. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      so it's definitely a shite system then, gotcha.

    7. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

      You made the fallacy of the following form: If X and Y did something wrong and X is using Y's behavior to justify its own actions then Y did not do anything wrong. What the school allegedly did with the webcam should not absolve the kid of his crimes.

    8. Re:To be fair by Angst+Badger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

      And that's the crux of the issue. The kid could have been running a meth lab for all that it matters. Public schools are not empowered to engage in warrantless video surveillance of private citizens in their own homes. A school can't even get a warrant. For that, they have to call the police, and the police have to go to a judge. And if there is anyone in the audience who wonders why schools aren't empowered to do this sort of thing, this case should answer that question.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    9. Re:To be fair by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, he might be, but so far we KNOW the other side has a history of lying on record (The school board's public statements would make the picture and the disciplinary action impossible, yet both exist).

      For that matter, the school would still be in the wrong even if they had him doing lines in a video. It's just that then they would have the ability to deflect the public's attention away from the issue.

      Really, the Mike and Ike thing is just icing on the cake. It just says that in addition to being creepy, voyeuristic, stupid, and on a power trip, the school system is also suspicious, given to unwarranted leaps of illogic, and blind as a bat.

    10. Re:To be fair by characterZer0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the entire premise of contemporary evangelical Christianity

      What exactly are the evangelical Christians doing do make you think that their premise is that the ends justify the means?

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    11. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I generally don't feed the trolls, but I'll make an exception in your case.

      Everything since the f'ing Crusades...

    12. Re:To be fair by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Yep, I took advantage of such devices anytime I had an issue at school I was trying to get out of.

      If you can divert the problem to something else, preferably relating to someone else doing something wrong, you can sometimes get off without anyone really doing anything to you in the end.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    13. Re:To be fair by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      The bible belt.

    14. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      The entire premise of a religion where you have to slog through 70 years of life in order to get an eternal reward is a prime example of what the poster was talking about. Particularly with the "I am Saved" variety of Christianity.

    15. Re:To be fair by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 1

      Um...evangelizing?

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    16. Re:To be fair by billius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, the "Mike & Ike" claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying.

      But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

      Exactly. Even if he was taking pills, there's no way of ascertaining what was in said pills by just looking at a photo, but seeing as how they strip search 13 year-old girls nowadays for having advil, I'm afraid that this is seeming more and more like par for the course. Even if the pills were illegal, the school had no business monitoring him like that.

    17. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly are the evangelical Christians doing do make you think that their premise is that the ends justify the means?
      "The bible belt" is a non-sequitur answer to that question.

    18. Re:To be fair by Reapman · · Score: 1

      Extremist? I'd love to hear your definition of that word. I know several that would probably consider themselves that, and I don't live in fear of my life. You and I must have very different definitions of said word.

      Also, I think we need a term to designate when a /. discussion goes from topic A to topic Religion.

    19. Re:To be fair by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The entire premise of a religion where you have to slog through 70 years of life in order to get an eternal reward is a prime example of what the poster was talking about. Particularly with the "I am Saved" variety of Christianity.

      That sounds a lot like the means justify the end. "The ends justify the means" is a phrase that means the end result is more important than how the result was achieved.
      If the eternal reward justifies the means, then why slog through 70 years? Suicide now! That's the new-age alien cult method.
      Christianity, while being *about* the ends, says that the means are very important, and that using the wrong means is proof of an attempt to reach the wrong end.

    20. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't most religions specifically exclude a lot of means - making them unjustified?

    21. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      using the system to spy on people.
      Correction, you should have said "using the system to spy on underage children". If the 'think of the children' adage is thrown in the face of every authority vs. privacy argument, we damn well can use it when it's pointing in the opposite direction.

    22. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      You have a distinct misunderstanding of what "slogging through 70 years of life" is all about in Biblical Christianity. I'm not saying there aren't people/"Christians" who support your statement, of course. There are also people out there that support my statement that "atheists are worse people than Christians" and that "Scientists are liars" and that "Democrats support communism."

    23. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The entire premise of a religion where you have to slog through 70 years of life in order to get an eternal reward is a prime example of what the poster was talking about. Particularly with the "I am Saved" variety of Christianity.

      So, you would prefer a religion that says you should kill yourself now?
      I would like to know what Christian teaching has an ends justifies the means take. Just one specific example.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    24. Re:To be fair by HereIAmJH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What exactly are the evangelical Christians doing do make you think that their premise is that the ends justify the means?

      I don't know, kidnapping Haitian children......

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    25. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the entire premise of contemporary evangelical Christianity and other extremist religions.

      Please define "extremist."

      If you wanted to apply that word to a "brand" of Christianity, I suggest the extreme wrongness of the views held by those participating in the Crusades and Inquisitions. Unless, of course, you are simply using "extremist" to refer to beliefs that are very different. But typically, people think of people killing each other when you talk about "extremist religions." Most evangelical Christians are not killing each other.

      Furthermore, the ends-justifies-the-means is not a Biblical concept whatsoever. The Bible is full of statements, in fact, that deal very much with how you go about doing the "right thing." And, in fact, the Bible calls doing the "right" thing with the "wrong motive" sin - because the Bible mentions the fact that God very much cares about intents and motives, not outward/external acts.

      Before judging "evangelical Christianity" - unless you are simply trying to judge particular groups that you have studied and not the entire group as if they all believe the same way - I'd suggest getting to know what they actually think and how much difference there is amongst the various groups in it. It would seem to me to be a fallacy to assume that just because a bunch of people claim the same name that they believe the same thing. Unless you really want me to go about pointing out that "atheists admit they are faith-based." Some do. And maybe another atheist doesn't think that way. It would be wrong of me to simply assume he actually thinks he has no concrete evidence in his mind for it, just because he shares a label...

    26. Re:To be fair by snowraver1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can just call it "god wins law".

      I'll see myself to the door.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    27. Re:To be fair by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      I generally don't feed the trolls, but I'll make an exception in your case.

      Everything since the f'ing Crusades...

      Which crusades would that be? The original crusades against Europe or the European response that came 4 centuries later?

      I'd like to see secular humanists wait that long to counterattack. I'd consider 400 years enough of turn the other cheek.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    28. Re:To be fair by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the "Mike & Ike" claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying.

      Not to worry. The school has photographic evidence to back up its claim.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    29. Re:To be fair by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lets keep facts seperate from speculation and assumption here.
       

      Sure, he might be, but so far we KNOW the other side has a history of lying on record (The school board's public statements would make the picture and the disciplinary action impossible, yet both exist).

      Absolutely incorrect on both counts, because we do not know how the school obtained the picture. Because of the acknowledged existence of the webcam security software virtually everyone is assuming the picture was obtained by the school via that software, and the plaintiffs are working very hard to make sure everyone makes that assumption - but there has not been one documented statement supporting that fact by either side. Nor was the student disciplined, though he was threatened with disciplinary action.

    30. Re:To be fair by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say they have a slam dunk case, but you're right, the kid needs to shut his mouth. Anything he says at this point can only hurt him.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    31. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

      I wonder how many kids were masturbating in front of their school provided, taxpayer funded corruption kits? How many bad, naughty and barely illegal video files did this badly behaving school collect about their students, who apparently are high school students for nothing's sake!
        I just realised that I had to use the expression of video files with an effort instead of that of video tape and the reality of my mature age hit me. Argh.

    32. Re:To be fair by cyber-dragon.net · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How about beating people just for walking into buildings, justifying a war and the worst president in history because "god told him to."

      Would you like news articles about child abuse in the name of god or brainwashing children to hate at an early age to create an "army of god"? How about terrorism over secular differences? Having the pledge of allegiance changed from agnostic to religious? How about the fact most news media outlets do not translate "Allah" to "God" as that might paint Christianity in a bad light, or more importantly people might realized Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god?

      Guess those ten commandments were more of a guideline than rules eh?

      Shall I go on?

      Fundamentalist Christians are just as bad as fundamentalist Muslims, they are just part of the popular religion in the western world so are excused in much the same way fundamentalist Muslims are in the middle east.

      The fact this will get modded flaimbait just proves it as no one can stand their beliefs being called into question or can face the reality of the world.

    33. Re:To be fair by magusxxx · · Score: 1

      But wouldn't this justify the administrators having the kindergarten class' guinea pig arrested as a drug mule?

      --
      Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
    34. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. There are people out there--probably a lot of them--who think that the ends justify the means. That's the entire premise of contemporary evangelical Christianity and other extremist religions.

      That is entirely not the premise of contemporary evangelical Christianity. Any evangelical Christian who believes that is no Christian at all; anyone who would tell you otherwise is an impostor. Accept no substitutes, although there are many...

    35. Re:To be fair by twidarkling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In order to "spread the Word of Jesus," and "Save the souls of Heathens" they're forcing their views on people who have no interest in their religion. Look up text book debates in texas, for one thing, or the constant lobbying by Churches in politics. Just as politics is supposed to refrain from establishing an official religion of the country, so should religion refrain from excessive meddling in the politics of the country. But they're not doing that.

      That you need examples rather than actually knowing this stuff shows that you're either a troll, a moron, or Christian. Probably all three.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    36. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      Your first one is a strawman. A false dichotomy.

      The teaching of eternal life after death so long as you are Saved (which, in modern, non-RC christianity, is non-revokable), an example already provided, clearly endorses and sanctions the idea that the ends justify the means.

    37. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      suicide now!

      Which is why the RC church (amongst others) made suicide a mortal sin. It's a safety measure against people who thought the flawed premise through to its logical end and decided to skip to the good stuff.

      The means are not important, because in modern Christianity once you're "saved" it's irrevocable.

      This is why modern Christianity is different than Roman Catholicism and its brethren.

    38. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      No, I have a very practical, reality-based understanding of day-to-day modern Christianity. Which is why I am no longer counted in that number.

    39. Re:To be fair by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I can think of quite a few things you think are worth the means because of the ends. War in ME and Social Programs are just the two I'd start with.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    40. Re:To be fair by cavemanf16 · · Score: 1

      Sancho, either you actually believe such a ridiculous statement, or you sir, are the worst troll I've seen in a while on Slashdot.

    41. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      What is it that I believe again?

    42. Re:To be fair by anyGould · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whether he was doing drugs or not is entirely irrelevant. If he was, there is no legal or moral way for the school to have found out unless he was caught doing it at the school.

      And to take it one step further - even giving the school Maximum Doubtage, if the student was selling illegal drugs, that's a matter for the police; if he's using, that's a matter for doctors and parents etc. In either case, being written up at school the next day is easily the least effective course of action possible.

    43. Re:To be fair by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      How ignorance this blatant could be modded insightful is beyond me.

      Sancho, just so you know, the Catholic church of the Middle Ages is NOT contemporary Evangelical Christianity. That you could mistake one for the other shows either a vast ignorance or a lack of ethics in your misrepresentation of the facts.

      Now, I admit there are nutjobs in the current Evangelical crowd that seem to hate everyone who doesn't believe as they do, but they are not the majority nor do they represent mainstream Evangelical thought and beliefs.

      There are also nutjobs in all belief systems including humanism. To say that the fringe element of any school of thought is representative of the whole is at best intellectual dishonesty, at worst a form of bigotry.

      BTW, I am NOT an Evangelical Christian.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    44. Re:To be fair by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

      No true Scotsman....

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    45. Re:To be fair by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure Christian groups generally attempt to "force people to share their beliefs". I agree that some individuals and specific groups can be extreme, as can e.g. animal rights groups and environmental lobbyists, but most Christians try to inform and debate rather than force anyone. I would say that extremism is really to do with the method. People who send letter bombs to those who perform abortions are definitely extreme, but that's a small minority within a very large movement. Saying that Christianity is an extremist religion is a bit like saying that all vegetarians are extreme because an animal rights lobbyist once attacked a research scientist.

    46. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weather he was popping pills, his girlfriend or osama bin laden is completely beside the point. They *should* be punished, the dean should loose his job and his pension, including getting extended asskicking for stupidity, they've would gotten away with it if they had'nt tried to "discipline" their student.

    47. Re:To be fair by anyGould · · Score: 1

      But the entire "what exactly was the kid doing" tangent is really just an attempt to justify the school's bad behavior.

      You made the fallacy of the following form: If X and Y did something wrong and X is using Y's behavior to justify its own actions then Y did not do anything wrong. What the school allegedly did with the webcam should not absolve the kid of his crimes.

      I'm presuming you're going with the crime of drug dealing and not candy-eating?

      Assuming worst possible scenario (picture is of the kid in the middle of a drug deal, money in one hand, bag of crack in the other), do you really think a school write-up is an appropriate punishment?

      That's the issue - if the laptop wasn't stolen, then what's going on in the home is none of the school's business, whether he's smacking hos or Gobstoppers.

    48. Re:To be fair by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      What the school allegedly did with the webcam should not absolve the kid of his crimes.

      There's plenty of legal precedent for throwing out cases when the evidence was obtained by police misconduct, regardless of the actual guilt or innocence of the accused.

    49. Re:To be fair by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, the "Mike & Ike" claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying.

      Which one has more credibility though: the kid, or the school which enacted a horribly invasive home spying program disguised as free laptops? The school essentially lied to hundreds of families in addition to violating their privacy, and then was so stupid they confronted the victims with proof that they were spying on them.

      I'd say even if the kid had a prior drug conviction (which he doesn't appear to), I'd trust his word and judgment over the moronic criminals running his school.

    50. Re:To be fair by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      And I believe in respect and consideration for individuals, the celebration of diversity, and the power of rational discourse, among other things.

      I would ideally like to make other people share at least some of those beliefs.

      Therefore, by your logic, I'm an extremist.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    51. Re:To be fair by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Just to play devil's advocate: Name a rule that's important to you, and let's find how many find it silly.

    52. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I respectfully disagree.

      First, there's Poe's law to consider. I'm sure that beliefs in this line are a corollary somewhere.

      Second, a good troll gets lots of responses. I've gotten lots.

      So either way, your premise is incorrect.

    53. Re:To be fair by Khyber · · Score: 0, Troll

      How about the Children's Crusades, then, there's one you didn't list. Yea,all those innocent children, sent out to slaughter.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    54. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An extremist Christian can be compared to an extremist Muslim. They both expect their rules to apply to everyone else and will try to subvert the government to ensure it. And if that doesn't work, they start killing people.

      Ref: sharia in France or abortion in the USA. On an as of yet non-lethal level, tv nudity vs headscarves or drug laws in the USA vs building codes in countries that prevent traditional muslim architecture.

    55. Re:To be fair by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

      All it takes is an EXIF of the image if it was captured in .jpg format. From webcam or digital cam - it's there, and the information will tell you how it was taken.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    56. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Sancho, just so you know, the Catholic church of the Middle Ages is NOT contemporary Evangelical Christianity. That you could mistake one for the other shows either a vast ignorance or a lack of ethics in your misrepresentation of the facts.

      Can you point out anywhere at all where I referenced Catholicism, in the middle ages or otherwise? I was raised Catholic and rather dislike modern Evangelists (having visited one or two Evangelist churches in recent years.)

      Now, I admit there are nutjobs in the current Evangelical crowd that seem to hate everyone who doesn't believe as they do, but they are not the majority nor do they represent mainstream Evangelical thought and beliefs.

      Maybe I have only had bad experiences with them. If so, I apologize.

      But I'm talking about the kind of people who think that Tiller's murder is justified. There are entire congregations where this is preached.

    57. Re:To be fair by Rathum · · Score: 1

      Suicide hasn't been a mortal sin in Roman Catholicism for years. The Catholic church accepts that chemical reactions in the brain can cause you to kill yourself.

    58. Re:To be fair by ffreeloader · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no proof the kid did anything for which he needs to "absolved". There is also the constitutional right to be "secure" in our homes against unreasonable search and seizure. What this school did/does most definitely crosses that line.

      The fact that crime exists does not give the government the right to spy on what goes on in everyone's home just because something "might" be happening there. Just so, just because a kid "might" be doing something wrong doesn't give the school the right to invade his home.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    59. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's the "modern" qualifier that is the issue then. I would argue that most "modern" Christians have the same misunderstanding of the Bible. Especially based on what ends up on TV and what kind of churches get the biggest.

    60. Re:To be fair by characterZer0 · · Score: 1

      We are getting outvoted by the Evangelical Christians. Thus is the failure of democracy.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    61. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, No True Scotsman doesn't really hold up when you're talking about a group who self-identifies. Anyone can call himself a Christian and make a bad name for all Christians. There is no authority for who is or isn't Christian.

      No True Scotsman has been getting a lot of play on the Internet lately, but I think it's actually a really horrible rebuttal in most cases. At best, it simply means that the argument is invalid. Of course, my original statement is invalidated in much the same way.

      So I'll amend: I've been in multiple churches where hate is taught. It's not that uncommon. I've seen lots and lots of people who effectively ascribe to the same principles. And a whole bunch of these (possibly due to where I live) have been self-identifying Evangelicals.

    62. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      First, your example is not one of ends justifies the means. Your example would be that one's actions don't matter. However, it is a bigger strawman than the one you accuse me of presenting. I know of no Christian organization that teaches that once one is saved one can do whatever one pleases. Those who hold to the teaching that once one is saved, one is always saved (not a position I personally hold) say that people who claim to have been saved and then behave with no morals have not actually been saved (basically, by thier beliefs you can't know who has been saved until after they die).
      The statement that "ends justifies the means" indicates a position that whatever one does is justified as long as it is done for the purpose of accomplishing good ends. Christianity, as I understand it, teaches that good ends can never be arrived at by evil means. I do not know of any Christian organization that teaches that using evil means is justified if they are used for noble ends.
      Would you like to try another example of a Christian teaching that says the ends justifies the means?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    63. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They both expect their rules to apply to everyone else and will try to subvert the government to ensure it. And if that doesn't work, they start killing people.

      Not true... or if they do start killing people, they are flatly going against what they claim they believe in. Look at what is referred to as the "early church." They were slaughtered by the Romans. And they apparently didn't really even fight back. They "got it." The Crusaders didn't "get it."

      As for abortion, some people believe that that is basically murder. And many people believe a lot of the ... "morals" that come from the Bible are in fact good things for society. That's not forcing "their rules" on everyone; that's believing something is good for society or bad for society and trying to influence the government in those respects. Just like most other people try to do with their beliefs. Which is the whole point of a democracy.

    64. Re:To be fair by characterZer0 · · Score: 1

      Pick any sufficiently large group, and you will find extremists giving the rest a bad name.

      The problem with the Evangelical Christians is the same as the problem with every other group - most of them are too concerned with their immediate surrounds to not get fooled by the extremists, wackos, politicians, schemers, and crooks.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    65. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Christianity is extremist because christian groups attempt to force people to share their beliefs. I'm sure it's hard for a christian to see the problem with this, because the beliefs are already believed inside the christian head.

      Hmmm. This would imply that non-Christians inherently see the world more clearly than Christians. Of course, the argument works both ways and it is entirely subjective. It even works in politics. A conservative can't see a liberal's POV because of the conservative's bias; therefore a liberal is more open. Of course, a liberal can't see the conservative's POV because of the liberal's bias, therefore the conservative is more open...

      As a nonchristian, any christian attempts to make me follow what are silly christian rules (don't abort pregnancies, don't buy liquor on Sunday, don't have sex outside of marriage... and so on) are ridiculous because such rules have no basis in logic, just beliefs that I don't share.

      You're right. And any Christian that tells you that you need to follow those rules - ESPECIALLY if they tell you that's what you do if you want to be "saved" - is dead wrong. Yes, Biblically, there are things that are "wrong" ... i.e., "sin." You sound like you have been mostly influenced by a particular group of Christians - e.g., your "liquor on Sunday" comment - who tend to define "sin" in very social terms... i.e., a "social" Gospel. But you're actually right, and I agree with you; me telling you not to sin (or not to do bad things, whatever you want to call it) is absolutely ridiculous, and it's even ridiculous Biblically. Biblically, you keeping from sinning does absolutely nothing for what the Bible would say your eternal welfare is. Living "like a Christian" is for Christians, not non-Christians. If you aren't a disciple of the one the Bible refers to as the Christ, then why should you be told you need to live like one? Makes no sense to me, either.

      Unfortunately, the "social Gospel" got into Christianity; in other words, using the Gospel/Bible to "clean up society." And I agree with you; that's absolutely ridiculous. And, I might add, un-Biblical...

      Hence, extremism. I don't have to please your god, and any attempt to make my life conform to rules that have such an aim is wrong on every level.

      Yup. And incidentally, if someone thinks you CAN please God by doing or not doing something, they're also wrong. It's stated very clearly in the Bible: without Christ, it is impossible to please God.

      I might sound like I'm arguing against "my religion." Maybe you'll get confused as to why I'm agreeing with you. I happen to think you are more correct, in some ways, about a lot of those who claim to be Christians than they are. That doesn't mean I agree with you about God. That just means I agree with you about some very big problems in modern-day Christianity.

    66. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Copyright 2009. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way, including but not limited to caching.

      Ummm your comment seems to have been copied into my computers random access memory... So who do I make the check out to and for how much... I don't want Team ACTA coming down on me....

    67. Re:To be fair by sr.+bigotes · · Score: 1

      The kid has to be lying. As outrageous as the claims against the school are, and to be sure they are outrageous and will require equally outrageous evidence, this is the part for me that just doesn't pass the smell test. No one in their right mind is going to mistake a kid eating candy for a kid popping pills. This is so unbelievable that it sounds like just the kind of lie a young teenager would come up with when caught. I know I used to try. His parents are going along with his obvious ridiculousness because they smell money. It brings to mind the case of the kid in MA over Christmas who supposedly "got suspended for drawing a picture of Jesus". In reality, it wasn't a picture of Jesus, and he didn't get suspended, but because there was a lawsuit and publicity to be had, his father knowingly played up the false claims. I would bet my right arm the same thing is going on here. "If my kid says he was eating candy, then he was eating candy!" No way. Regardless of what the school did or didn't do, the family's account of it is utterly ridiculous. I'm withholding judgment accordingly.

    68. Re:To be fair by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      What exactly are the evangelical Christians doing do make you think that their premise is that the ends justify the means?

      I don't know, kidnapping Haitian children......

      Were these children from actual homes or were they homeless? If they were from a group home that was destroyed and their caretakers had abandoned them, I'm not sure if that is exactly kidnapping. If find it interesting that while the Haitian government were incapable of taking care of their people, they somehow had the resources to maintain efficient border control to keep people from leaving the country. That kind of speaks to the priorities of many nations.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    69. Re:To be fair by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's just say the weight of evidence is not on the school's side. Apparently the principal told the parents the picture came from a webcam on the laptop. We know the picture had to come into existence SOMEHOW and had to SOMEHOW end up in the principal's possession. The student and his parents had to SOMEHOW come to know there was software on the laptop that could remotely activate the camera.

      We know that for some reason the school has chosen not to offer this perfectly reasonable explanation you seem to think exists despite considerable public pressure (not to mention FBI and the DA) that would go away in an instant if they did.

      While in the most literal sense, we cannot with 100% certainty rule out the machinations of evil elves from the 5th dimension, I believe that from a practical standpoint we can say it's not looking good for the school board.

    70. Re:To be fair by sr.+bigotes · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go even further and say the family hasn't even seen the picture in question, if there even is a picture to be seen, and are randomly guessing at its content and explanation. Everyone is in the dark here.

    71. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Just to play devil's advocate: Name a rule that's important to you, and let's find how many find it silly.

      Don't rape children... I win the game, yes?

    72. Re:To be fair by KC7JHO · · Score: 1

      Google "Fruit of the poisonous tree" This is legal precedent stating any evidence obtained illegally in inadmissible in a court of law. The police can not even use the pictures to obtain a search warrant.

    73. Re:To be fair by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      This life doesn't matter - only the afterlife. Once you're there, you're golden. God is happier the more people you save. Ergo, whatever you gotta do to save as many people as you can.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    74. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      As someone who was raised in the modern Christian tradition, I can tell you that your knowledge of such is theoretical and not practical. Since our types of experience are not reconcilable until you have more exposure to the day-to-day beliefs of modern protestants and evangelicals (in particular) we will not come to agreement.

      As for your claim that mine is a strawman, I point out that the belief system is a framework that endorses "means to the end" thinking. That, in itself, is problematic enough.

    75. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Exactly. Even if he was taking pills, there's no way of ascertaining what was in said pills by just looking at a photo

      Everyone seems to be forgetting how interrogations work. They showed him the picture and told him they knew it was drugs just to see what his response was. It's standard operating procedure for police, schools, employers, etc...

      If he busts out laughing it's not a drug...

    76. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

    77. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      No True Scotsman

      It is the actions of a group that defines them, not the guidelines they profess to follow in theory.

    78. Re:To be fair by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Contraire Pierre. Getting outvoted is the essence of democracy, assuming an honest count.

    79. Re:To be fair by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      fallacy to assume that just because a bunch of people claim the same name that they believe the same thing.

      I agreed with everything you said, until there. I see no issue with saying "all pro-lifers want to ban abortion" because somebody calling themselves pro-life has chosen to take upon that term - which connotes activism against abortion.

      Evangelicals typically consider themselves evangelicals. Part of being an evangelical is evangelizing. Now, most Christians are happy to talk about their faith, and provide information if somebody is interested. But we don't call most Christians evangelical, nor do they call themselves evangelical. Evangelical means, by its very nature, a more direct approach.

      In short: you're arguing against taking a group of people who have self-identified with an ideology, and 'lumping' them into a group supporting that ideology.

      And for the record, Christan evangelicals are extreme because of stupid shit like this whole evolution "debate". If my kid gets taught some bullshit theory because of these whackjobs, they're too extreme for me.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    80. Re:To be fair by characterZer0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The essence of something can still be a failure.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    81. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      How many bad, naughty and barely illegal video files did this badly behaving school collect about their students,

      We will never ever know that as they have had plenty of time to clean up after themselves.

      Also from the start they have stated that only two people in IT had access to this spy system. Doesn't that sound a bit funny to the rest of you? Maybe, like they're going to try and blame the IT people for this whole thing? It sure sounds that way to me and it wouldn't be the first time such has happened.

      We all should know their full of shit. If you're in IT and have a password and don't give it to your boss they send you to ass-rape prison. I'd cite the story from CA but all of you should already know what I'm talking about.

      Please remember this when they arrest those IT people. Lets make sure to support our brothers because it's likely to happen and anyone of us can be next.

    82. Re:To be fair by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I dunno. I should have prefaced it my statement with "Probably) ;) My bad. I'm just sickened by the debt being accumulated on the guise of "security", whether it be for Social or National Security. I'm not feeling all that secure these days.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    83. Re:To be fair by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      To be fair when citing Texas textbooks, one would also want to mention the myriad other special interest groups that are involved in that debate. And don't non-Christian churches (and even non-churches) also lobby in politics? Atheists, if I recall correctly have been quite successful in modifying some of the law to suit their distaste of Christian situations in public. I'd say that a large portion of the Christian community propagates the myth that the government is seeking to eradicate all evidence of their views from the public eye, at least from their point of view.

      In short, it seems your examples are rather bad.

    84. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, now, you don't win unless we can't find anyone who disagrees. Looking at our scoreboard, we see that a good fraction of the population of Japan and Arabia stand opposed. Sorry, no points for you this round.

    85. Re:To be fair by Golddess · · Score: 1

      I think GP meant "look at the bible belt and you'll see what it is that they are doing."

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    86. Re:To be fair by electrostatic · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the "Mike & Ike" claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying.

      "He might be lying." Might not be. Sometimes you cannot prove that you are not guilty. In this case, the photo quality might be so poor that the candy indeed looks like an illegal drug.

      Can you prove that you have never committed murder?

      No. You cannot prove it. To do so you would have to account for every brief moment of your life which offered the possibility of killing someone. You could throw a rock off a bridge. Stab a stranger on a dark street. And so on. To prove that you are not guilty of murder you can be required, at least, to provide a solid alibi for every moment of your adult life.

      "He might be lying" implies that the mere possibility that you could have committed a crime is sufficient enough to deal with you as if you have committed a crime. And if you can prove otherwise "I was here in your court, your honor" then the date could be changed. And so on, ad infinitum. If that's the principle, then the prosecution does not even have to specify any particulars of a crime.

      That's why the burden of proof must lie on the accuser. IOW, the presumption of innocence must be a fundamental principle of justice.

      Now I don't claim that you disagree with the presumption of innocence principle. But whether the kid is or isn't lying is simply not significant. It has no standing in how those who wield power should judge or treat him. It nothing more than an opinion that has nothing to do with any material fact.

    87. Re:To be fair by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, I looked it up, and it seems Knara is right to call for a cite:

      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm

      Almost always a 'sin' per that article. Unless you're a saint. They touch on the issues, but their decision seems pretty resolute.

    88. Re:To be fair by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "There are people out there--probably a lot of them--who think that the ends justify the means. That's the entire premise of contemporary evangelical Christianity and other extremist religions."
      Actually that is not a teaching of the Christianity.
      If you have studied it at all you would see that The Pharisees acts involved in the killing of Christ was a condemnation of the ends justifies the means. There justification was that Rome would destroy the Jewish people if they didn't stop Jesus.
      The acts of Pilot where a condemnation of hiding behind the law showing that legal injustice was still a sin and a terrible crime.
      According to strict Christian doctrine on must obey the letter and spirit of the law unless that law was unjust. When the law is unjust one must openly oppose that law but only by doing good as Jesus taught by example by healing somebody on that sabbath.
      So not that is NOT a valid teaching of Christianity.
      Of course somebody could say that it is okay but if they do they are silly as Buddhist that beats somebody for saying Buddha was a fatso.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    89. Re:To be fair by kappa962 · · Score: 1

      The means are not important, because in modern Christianity once you're "saved" it's irrevocable.

      In some branches of modern (and less modern) Christianity this is believed, and in other branches of modern (and less modern) Christianity this is not believed. The beliefs of the christian community are far from homogeneous.

    90. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Evangelical Christianity" is also a "brand" sort of thing, though, and can refer to a broad spectrum of people... e.g., polls talk to "Evangelical/Born-Again Christians." It's a label.

      Look at the wikipedia page for Evangelical Christianity. It actually doesn't have a whole lot to do with public evangelism.

      As for the evolution bit, I'd rather not comment. It will derail this completely. Generally, though, if schools' science curriculum change due ONLY to the Bible, I'd actually tend to agree with you... that's really not what Christians should be using the Bible for. While I do believe it is scientifically accurate, I don't think it's a science textbook and it should not be used that way. If it's a scientific argument because someone looked in that direction due to their beliefs, I'm ok with it. That belongs in the science area. Of course, I don't know if origins of the universe is "science." At best, seems to me like history or archaeology of some sort, hehe. On the other hand, I have some other ideas you would likely think are extreme, so I won't mention them ;) hehe.

    91. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I wouldn't give for a mod point or two today...

    92. Re:To be fair by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Yep when the lawyers get a look at this they will tell the school administration involved that they are in error or to put it in the words of Bender "Your boned meat tubes."

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    93. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police was not involved in this case. Your comment is completely irrelevant to the article and this thread.

    94. Re:To be fair by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually none of that matters.
      What does matter is did the school EVER turn on the web cams remotely without a warrant.
      Even if the laptop was stolen it is illegal to use it as a wiretap device.
      If it was activated without a warrant odds are it is a crime.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    95. Re:To be fair by willy_me · · Score: 1

      if the student was selling illegal drugs, that's a matter for the police

      It's also a matter for the police, but it is still a matter for the school. The school is charged with maintaining a safe environment for the students. I am not condoning what the school has done but they should be looking out for illegal activities that could harm other students. Where they went wrong is with the invasion of privacy that occurred when looking for illegal activities.

    96. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      The only real "modern" Christianity movement with any longevity and a smattering of cohesion is the Evangelicals. Saying that some do or do no believe anything is somewhat pointless, since they can make up just about anything they want and it's "okay". Nonetheless, the overwhelming majority are certain that once you're Saved, you're good.

    97. Re:To be fair by Knara · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, the Wikipedia article points out that it's always a sin, but not necessarily a mortal one, depending on the circumstances (because you may not know it was a mortal sin, I guess, and so they're gonna cut you some slack).

    98. Re:To be fair by ardent99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, the "drugs" claim was made by a school administrator. And he might be lying. Given the circumstances in this case, I believe the kid more.

    99. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit sucking up to the low uid

    100. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The only real "modern" Christianity movement with any longevity and a smattering of cohesion is the Evangelicals. "

      [Citation Needed]

    101. Re:To be fair by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      If you don't see the connection, you're not trying very hard :P

      My parent post made this statement:

      What the school allegedly did with the webcam should not absolve the kid of his crimes.

      The obvious conclusion is that my parent poster also thinks that if police, through misconduct, obtain proof of a crime, then their misconduct is ignored for the purposes of prosecuting that crime.

      In the real world, it doesn't work that way; we toss that evidence, and if it was the only evidence, then there was no crime from a legal perspective.

      In the case of the school district, we have the same situation: the school obtained, through misconduct, a photo they claim was evidence of something bad.

      Because the photo was obtained through misconduct, they should not be allowed to act on it, period. This is almost a perfect parallel to police misconduct getting evidence thrown out.

      In other words, I was using legal precedent to both disagree with my parent poster and show why I disagree. I never implied the police were involved in the case (though the FBI has taken an interest).

      Try thinking harder next time before you say something is completely irrelevant.

    102. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I was referring specifically to Evangelicals, not Christianity in general.

    103. Re:To be fair by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      The school is charged with maintaining a safe environment for the students

      How can it be a safe environment when it is administered by congenital idiots?

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    104. Re:To be fair by kappa962 · · Score: 1

      Where do you get the idea that the "overwhelming majority" of Christians believe this? Anything beyond anecdotal evidence?

      This may be a prominent view in Calvinist churches, (reformed baptist, presbyterian, etc.) but is certainly not a prominent view in churches with a more Arminian flavor (methodist, pentecostal, etc.)

    105. Re:To be fair by willy_me · · Score: 1

      By accepting tax-exempt status, a religious group is forbidden from engaging in politics - required by the separation of church and state. All religious groups that attempts to fiddle in politics should simply have their tax-exempt status revoked. For example, many churches hosted rallies for the republican party in the last election - totally allowed so long as you pay taxes on your income and property. (Which, fyi, they do not..)

      All of those other groups that you mentioned are not registered as churches, do not have tax-exempt status, and can thusly freely get involved in politics.

      *Note - some non-profit groups can be tax-exempt while still being allowed to play with politics. This is because they are not based on religion and also do not profit from their labours. Churches, by comparison, do profit.

    106. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If their belief that it is good for society, but has no basis for logic EXCEPT what they gather from the bible then you are forcing your beliefs on me. i.e. Mandatory public prayers in school, Mandatory Creationism in school, etc. All these and things similar are there for is to start to funnel people into their religions.

    107. Re:To be fair by willy_me · · Score: 1

      Please define "extremist."

      For religion, I would describe it as the 10% of the population that adopts a set of beliefs more "completely" then the other 90% of the population. So every religion has an "extremist" population - it simply depends on the context of the population. If looking at Muslims, one might say that the Taliban are "extremists". But if looking at the Taliban, you might only define the ones who want to blow themselves up for the glory of God as being extremist.

    108. Re:To be fair by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Which Evangelicals? I can probably find thousands as in ten or hundreds thousands of them that will agree with my statment of doctrine. How many can you find that will say I am wrong?
      When you start condemning a group and saying that they really mean this or that without firm documentation it is nothing but bigotry. It is your condemnation and interpretation of their beliefs.
      If wish to make a statment about a person or persons that make a statment or an act that feel that is wrong that is one thing. To make a broad statment like you made about a group again is just bigotry. Frankly I doubt that is your goal but it is a trap that is all to easy to fall into these days.
      Such statements are almost never useful or informative in anyway.
      Sort of like saying all followers of Islam are terrorists.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    109. Re:To be fair by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      While I'm almost completely certain that this is outside the intent of the founding fathers' design, I'd be inclined to agree. Certainly along the lines of profit, as in - if a church wished to remain tax exempt, then they need to operate as a non-profit. Any revenue over expenses should go toward charity or some other compassionate effort. This would go a long way towards both making the world a better place and guiding religion (or at least Christianity) back toward the original purpose.

      But again, I doubt the men who stamped the name of God all over everything with which they had contact had this in mind when they wrote those lines into the Constitution.

    110. Re:To be fair by starfishsystems · · Score: 1

      Please define "extremist."

      I'd consider someone to be extremist who, whether as a matter of doctrine or personal conviction, actively goes around try to persuade others to believe in the existence of imaginary beings.

      Another word might be "lunatic", but that would unkind to lunatics. Lunatics don't necessarily go around trying to persuade others to get on board with their insanity. Extremists do. The rest is just a question of degree, isn't it?

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    111. Re:To be fair by haruharaharu · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    112. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      As someone who was raised in the modern Christian tradition, I can tell you that your knowledge of such is theoretical and not practical. Since our types of experience are not reconcilable until you have more exposure to the day-to-day beliefs of modern protestants and evangelicals (in particular) we will not come to agreement.

      As for your claim that mine is a strawman, I point out that the belief system is a framework that endorses "means to the end" thinking. That, in itself, is problematic enough.

      Sorry, but not only was I raised in a modern Christian tradition, I have over my life made friends with people from various modern Christian traditions and have spent many an hour discussing and debating the differences between their understanding of Christianity and mine.
      The belief system does not endorse "means to the end". In order to support your claim, you need to point to some bad action that is acceptable because it is done in the service of obtaining a good end result.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    113. Re:To be fair by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      Unless the image was placed on the laptop by someone other than the school, and the school decided to search the laptop (it being school property and all). If the laptop is intended for school purposes only, and they inform the students that the laptop will be searched, it seems both legal and moral for them to conduct such a search and if they find inappropriate use of school property, it seems reasonable for them to have a talk with the student about it.

      Though there are plenty of "ifs" in this chain of events, my point is that there are plenty of ways to fill the gaps in our knowledge about this event that don't end up with a conspiracy to commit criminal stupidity.

    114. Re:To be fair by Fastolfe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're still assuming that the student's allegations are fact. The truth is that we don't know where the image came from. All we know is that the student apparently denies taking it, and the school installs anti-theft software on their laptops (as one might expect), and that anti-theft software has the means to remotely activate the webcam (as most consumers of anti-theft software demand).

    115. Re:To be fair by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      We know the picture had to come into existence SOMEHOW

      There are many ways the picture could have come into existence. The student could have taken it himself. The student could have taken it inadvertently.

      and had to SOMEHOW end up in the principal's possession.

      The laptop was school property, so it would be perfectly reasonable for them to search it if they suspected something inappropriate was on it. If the image was already on the laptop, this search would have found it.

      The student and his parents had to SOMEHOW come to know there was software on the laptop that could remotely activate the camera.

      The student denies taking the snapshot, and if we assume for a moment he's being truthful, the next logical question to ask is, "How else could the image have been taken?" If that question were asked of the right person, the existence of the webcam feature in the anti-theft software would have come out at that time.

      We know that for some reason the school has chosen not to offer this perfectly reasonable explanation you seem to think exists despite considerable public pressure (not to mention FBI and the DA) that would go away in an instant if they did.

      The school announced that they could not discuss any specifics of this case. This seems reasonable given the pending litigation.

    116. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      All these and things similar are there for is to start to funnel people into their religions.

      That is what you believe.

      As for the rest, that depends. If someone accepts the Bible as truth, then why is it you require them to have some other basis in order for them to be actually well-meaning, well-intentioned, and honest? You are basically saying that my beliefs, in order for me to think they are good for people, have to have the same basis as yours do otherwise they aren't good enough. That's fine for you to think that, of course, and fine for you to vote for and against what you want. That is the beauty of democracy.

      But you're basically asserting that I can't have a different basis for my reasoning than you. Interestingly enough, you mention two things that have been highly debated and are not something that I have heard are really being fought FOR, but more fought AGAINST; e.g., NO prayer in school but mandatory sex-ed in school (what if I don't want that for my kid as a parent?).

      I'm thinking more about abortion, though. Sure, maybe my basis for thinking abortion is wrong is the Bible. Your basis for thinking it's not wrong is what? Perhaps logic or some sort of science used in some strange way. Great, so we have two different bases of thought. You, in your post, are simply asserting that my basis doesn't count and yours does, simply because you don't think mine is a trustworthy basis and start deciding things about my intentions based on your blanket assertion. I guess I'm not allowed to doubt yours, though, as that would be obviously ignorant...

    117. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      And what right do you have to tell me that it's wrong? On what authority and why am I accountable to that authority?

      I actually agree with your "rule" but I'm interested in knowing why you think it's a valid rule and not simply a suggestion for society to mutually agree to in order to preserve order.

    118. Re:To be fair by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Which is why the RC church (amongst others) made suicide a mortal sin

      Great, now I have the image of the Pope with a 4-channel controller standing on his balcony, driving the cardinals all around St. Peter's Square...

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    119. Re:To be fair by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Well... Logically not aborting pregnancies allows for a likelihood that the life of that person from a non-abortion could easily become someone important to society as a whole. Not buying liquor on Sunday, honestly this isn't particularly widespread except in even the most extreme cases. Some "christian" churches disallow all alcohol. Others explicitly allow it, Christ himself was known to drink wine on occasion, and many churches, including the RC, use it in ceremony even on Sundays. Not having sex outside of a committed relationship reduces the burden on society for the care of those children born out of marriage or similar commitment.

      There are plenty of logical reasons for them. Not that I tend to agree with them. I personally think that the government shouldn't even be in a position to license marriage. That doesn't mean there aren't perfectly logical reasons for such beliefs without a religious context.

      Back to the subject at hand. Anyone who has logged in to view a student outside of a report of a stolen laptop should have their entire computer records, and home computers seized and searched for child pornography and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    120. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      actively goes around try to persuade others to believe in the existence of imaginary beings.

      Ah-ha. Hey, there's this tree in my backyard that's green. Do you believe me? You haven't seen it. It's appealed to none of your senses. Is it imaginary? You won't "know" for sure until you come to my backyard and make sure it's nowhere in my backyard. How is it you can say with complete authority (in your own mind) that these beings are imaginary? Or are you deeming someone else extremist because they actively persuade others to believe in what they believe to be true, while reserving your own right to judge them as extremist because you have proven that those beings actually do not exist? Or perhaps you simply think they don't exist because you have never personally been convinced that they exist... but then you are no better than they, because you have already deemed them imaginary without any proof... ?

      I'm being serious and I'm not trying to belittle or whatever. It's a conundrum that I'm interested in someone expressing. I can't see how anyone can truly be an atheist unless they've actually proven the non-existence of God. Sure, I can understand someone not believing the Bible and all that, and I can understand someone believing there is not a God, but I can't understand someone so sure about it as you seem to me.

      Another word might be "lunatic", but that would unkind to lunatics. Lunatics don't necessarily go around trying to persuade others to get on board with their insanity. Extremists do. The rest is just a question of degree, isn't it?

      Lunacy implies something wrong with their brain and intelligence. If you are trying to insinuate that those who believe in God are insane and unintelligent, I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent and smart people that would love to talk to you. In fact, there are quite a few dead intelligent people that believed in God. Christians? No, not necessarily. But believed in the existence of God.

      I comment too much. :)

    121. Re:To be fair by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      I think there's more to it than that, personally... in the case of Muslims, some of them adopt interpretations that differ. That's not just believing it more fully, it's interpreting it differently and thus believing something different. And it doesn't even mean the interpretation makes logical sense. Just look at all of the wacko English-major interpretations of every major literary book out there. ;)

    122. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, christians they just kill abortion doctors
      All religions are "extremist religions"

      Any way look dude god doesn't exist...the game is over

    123. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      The ones I've interacted with. Every one.

      It is your condemnation and interpretation of their beliefs.

      Well, no. It's my repetition of their own words.

      But in the end, my point got lost in the shuffle. My point is that there are quite a few people who think that if this kid was actually popping pills, then the way he was discovered is irrelevant and a "liberal conspiracy" to get people in trouble who are just looking out for the kids.

      But I guess if I can't prove to you that a substantial number of people feel this way, you'll just say I'm bigoted.

    124. Re:To be fair by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Oh, so "turn the other cheek" just means that you pretend to roll over, while secretly plotting your revenge?

      That definitely sounds Jesus-like.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    125. Re:To be fair by sjames · · Score: 1

      The school announced that they could not discuss any specifics of this case. This seems reasonable given the pending litigation.

      The litigation that wouldn't have existed if they had come clean from the beginning? That only became an issue because they overstepped their bounds by threatening disciplinary action for something he did in his own bedroom? Meanwhile, it's not as if they HAVEN'T made any comments to the press, they have. They have made comments to other parents as well. They just haven't made one that includes a reasonable explanation for all of this.

      I might buy the "we can't discuss it" line if they hadn't already made a press release that didn't even mention that there were other facts they couldn't discuss further.

    126. Re:To be fair by pclminion · · Score: 1

      The school announced that they could not discuss any specifics of this case. This seems reasonable given the pending litigation.

      While that is the usual legal practice, how could it have POSSIBLY harmed them in this case? Hell, be vague: "We can only confirm that the images were not captured by the web cam security system." Of course, unintended consequences can arise whenever you make ANY sort of statement, but given that the FBI is now raining shit down on them, it seems like any potential legal backfiring from making such a statement pales in comparison to a criminal investigation.

      Not to mention, not all consequences are legal consequences. Whether or not such an admission may damage their case legally, they are developing a public image of being a bunch of sociopathic, child-spying sickos with a bent for exceeding authority. There is value in making that go away. The fact that they do not do so speaks volumes.

    127. Re:To be fair by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      If the question at hand ("How did school come into the possession of the photograph?") could be answered with EXIF data, that would be an outstandingly useful comment. But we already fucking know the picture was taken with the laptop's webcam. Idiot.

    128. Re:To be fair by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      If he busts out laughing it's not a drug...

      Somebody needs to introduce you to some better drugs.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    129. Re:To be fair by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Let's just say the weight of evidence is not on the school's side.

      Let's just say the weight of evidence is not against the school either. In fact, there's essentially zero evidence.
       

      Apparently the principal told the parents the picture came from a webcam on the laptop. We know the picture had to come into existence SOMEHOW and had to SOMEHOW end up in the principal's possession. The student and his parents had to SOMEHOW come to know there was software on the laptop that could remotely activate the camera.

      None of which changes the facts - we don't know how the school came into possession of the picture. Period, end of sentence.
       

      We know that for some reason the school has chosen not to offer this perfectly reasonable explanation you seem to think exists despite considerable public pressure (not to mention FBI and the DA) that would go away in an instant if they did.

      Yes, and we even know the reason - the school is involved in a law suit.
       

      I believe that from a practical standpoint we can say it's not looking good for the school board.

      Mostly because of twisted non logic like you exhibit above - the school hasn't protested it's innocence and slandered the poor kid, so they must be guilt. But the beauty of your non logic is that if the school protested its innocence, it that people like you would be among the first to cry "they're slandering the poor boy, he must be innocent and they must be guilty".

    130. Re:To be fair by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      The litigation that wouldn't have existed if they had come clean from the beginning?

      In my eyes, they did. They clearly and unambiguously said that the school never uses the webcams to monitor or discipline students. They just haven't discussed any specifics about this kid's case, which seems, to me, to be perfectly reasonable.

    131. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      On what authority and why am I accountable to that authority?

      On the authority of those with bigger clubs than you whom can kill or imprison you if you don't do as they instruct. Hopefully this authority accounts for a large majority in any society and only makes the bare minimum rules necessary to protect your freedom to do as you like as long as whatever that is doesn't take away another's right to the same. (not currently the case)

      but I'm interested in knowing why you think it's a valid rule and not simply a suggestion

      I would not wish to be raped therefor I should not rape. The children part isn't really needed honestly. But please see the above part about freedom as well. Rape takes away another's freedom of choice.

      This is an imperfect response to your question as there is no perfect answer. But to be honest, none of us are accountable to any authority and we can do whatever we like for as long as we can get away with it. (Hide from those with bigger clubs)

    132. Re:To be fair by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      quite if I was the chair of goveners I would be having a quiet chat and leave the head alone in the room with a bottle of whisky a pen and paper - and wait for him to do the right thing - of course usain's might want to replace the pen with a browning 9mm.

    133. Re:To be fair by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Somebody needs to introduce you to some better drugs.

      Ahh, I couldn't figure out why I had been modded funny but yes now I see what my subconscious had done there.

      However, I hope the general idea of what I was saying doesn't get shrugged off as a total joke as I think it might explain the issue. But yeah I could probably use some better drugs as the ones I'm on now just aren't any fun.

    134. Re:To be fair by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "I would like to know what Christian teaching has an ends justifies the means take. Just one specific example."

      Like, uhmmm... when Catholic Church burns somebody so he cannot push anybody else's poor soul into hell, or even (gasp!) as a way to save his eternal soul?

      Or, ehmmm... when Arnald Amalric, Cistercian abbot under direct command from Pope ordered to kill everybody at Beziers, disregarding age or sex, so no Cathar in the town could scape, perfectly knowing that he was ordering to kill a lot of good Christians and when questioned answered that God would know his own?

      Or maybe we should talk about a God that makes the live of the strongest believer of his generation a living hell (Job, I mean) just to probe a point? Yeah, the same God that doesn't give a damn about killing thousands of aegyptians closing the Red Sea waters over their heads so the chosen people could scape slavery. Yes, the same God that knowing that his Word won't be peacefully accepted don't hesitate to send their apostles to martirydom to Rome (after all, spreading the Holy Word surely justifies hundreds being arrowed, burned, decapited and eaten by lions, doesn't it?).

    135. Re:To be fair by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Let's just say the weight of evidence is not against the school either. In fact, there's essentially zero evidence.

      Not really.

      Here's the evidence:
      - School has software on the laptop that allows them to remotely use the webcam on the laptop.
      - Access to the webcam is restricted to this software, i.e. the student cannot use the webcam without jailbreaking the laptop.
      - The school acquired a photo taken from the laptop's webcam.
      - The school did not confiscate the laptop prior to acquiring the photo.

      So, what this suggests is that the school got the photo from the laptop remotely, using the software specifically designed to do that. It's possible that the student jailbroke their laptop, took the photo, and either didn't disable remote access so the school was able to browse his HD, or it was posted somewhere and the school saw it. Because both are possible does not mean they are equally likely.

      None of which changes the facts - we don't know how the school came into possession of the picture. Period, end of sentence.

      Like just about anything that has to be ended with "period", this is a simplification that makes sense if you do not continue thinking.

      Yes, we don't know how the school came into possession of the picture. However we most definitely do have an idea, and saying that there's no evidence either way is simply wrong. Nothing is proven, evidence is not proof. But we sure know how they could have acquired the photo, via a mechanism whose mere existence is suspicious, and it's the simplest and most obvious mechanism for it to have arrived in their hands. Occam yadda yadda.

      "Knowing for certain" and "there exists evidence for" are not the same thing, and this is the main problem with your line of reasoning.

      Mostly because of twisted non logic like you exhibit above - the school hasn't protested it's innocence and slandered the poor kid, so they must be guilt. But the beauty of your non logic is that if the school protested its innocence, it that people like you would be among the first to cry "they're slandering the poor boy, he must be innocent and they must be guilty".

      Except it's neither twisted nor illogical. They could eliminate 99% of the controversy, and any need for the FBI to be involved, simply by stating that they did not use the laptop's remote picture taking ability to get the photo, and instead found it on Facebook or whatever. If it were true. Yet they don't say that.

      Because they don't want to slander the boy? Is that really what you're suggesting is the reason why they don't let the air out of this controversy, prevent federal investigation, and reassure their community? They're already basically accusing him of being a drug user, so there goes that theory. Or was that just part of your strawman of what they GP would have thought had they actually tried to provide an alibi? "Twisted non-logic" indeed.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    136. Re:To be fair by aquabat · · Score: 1

      It's also a matter for the police, but it is still a matter for the school. The school is charged with maintaining a safe environment for the students. I am not condoning what the school has done but they should be looking out for illegal activities that could harm other students. Where they went wrong is with the invasion of privacy that occurred when looking for illegal activities.

      I agree. Children often make mistakes. They need to be protected from their inexperience. The school is merely filling the role of a big brother, who naturally wants to guide and protect his younger siblings from the dangers of the modern world.

      --
      A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
    137. Re:To be fair by sjames · · Score: 1

      They could EASILY explain how they properly came into possession of the picture while not slandering anyone IF they properly came into possession of the picture.

      Based on your standard of 'know', I do not KNOW that anything beyond my own mind exists at all. However, for practical purposes it's probably best that I accept mostly sure. Courts do the same thing. Even criminal court necessarily accepts that we can only eliminate reasonable doubt.

      Beyond that, I yield the floor to Chris Burke who answered the rest very nicely.

    138. Re:To be fair by anyGould · · Score: 1

      if the student was selling illegal drugs, that's a matter for the police

      It's also a matter for the police, but it is still a matter for the school. The school is charged with maintaining a safe environment for the students. I am not condoning what the school has done but they should be looking out for illegal activities that could harm other students. Where they went wrong is with the invasion of privacy that occurred when looking for illegal activities.

      I would think schools would want to be very, very cautious about how far they want to extend their responsibility in this matter. Take this instance for the example: is the school really admitting responsibility for all the actions this student takes at home? Do they really want that responsibility for each of the 1800 students in that school?

      Considering the issues they have simply maintaining order on the school grounds (and really, there isn't a six-year-old alive that doesn't know exactly where the teachers patrol during recess, and where you can be left alone for 15 minutes), I'd suggest they may not want to be held responsible for everything the kids do after hours as well.

    139. Re:To be fair by starfishsystems · · Score: 1

      Hey, there's this tree in my backyard that's green. Do you believe me?

      Of course I don't believe you! I have no independent basis for verifying your claim.

      That doesn't mean that I believe the converse. It means that I consider your claim to be empty.

      Lunacy implies something wrong with their brain and intelligence.

      Yes, exactly.

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    140. Re:To be fair by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      And one of the cardinals is one of the two-button, move/turn-right cheap models.

    141. Re:To be fair by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well if it helps your faith in the world let state that feel this is a terrible abuse of power. Even if you think this is okay which I do not the way it was dealt with is STUPID. Telling the kid would accomplish what?
      This was a criminal act IMHO by the school.

      Back to your statement substantial doesn't mean majority and frankly I bet you would find a substantial number of people that never step into a church that also believe as you say.
      I didn't say where a bigot. In fact I am hoping that you are not. I just showed you that the statement was bigoted. What else can you call making an extremely negative statement about a HUGE group of people based you a very small sample?
      The real truth is that there are a HUGE number of people that believe that the end justifies the means. And of course there are those that do the flip side which is following the letter of the law but not the spirit. If you take a good look at Christian teachings you will see that both of failings are shown in a terrible light.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    142. Re:To be fair by Mephistro · · Score: 1

      ... they somehow had the resources to maintain efficient border control to keep people from leaving the country. That kind of speaks to the priorities of many nations.

      Perhaps one of their priorities is to prevent lone children from being kidnapped by child abusers, prostitution ringleaders and religious fanatics. If my country ever suffers anything remotely close to this disaster, I expect my government to keep an "efficient border control", for many good reasons.

    143. Re:To be fair by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 1

      All it takes is an EXIF of the image if it was captured in .jpg format. From webcam or digital cam - it's there, and the information will tell you how it was taken.

      Because there are no programs whatsover in existence that can modify the EXIF information at all and nobody can write one. And furthermore, there are ablsolutely zero ways to modify recording and access times of the file. So, clearly, the tamper-proof digital picture is uncontestable proof. [/sarcasm]

      --
      +Raider of the lost BBS
    144. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also from the start they have stated that only two people in IT had access to this spy system.

      It's definitely funny as what would the purpose of the monitoring resource then be? At least not that of the teacher checking the students progress. I'd bet the ones who made the decision in the school board will be escorted on their way by a pair of well dressed agents, this time. The minutes should be all right there, in writing.

    145. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "we do not know how the school obtained the picture."

      "we already fucking know the picture was taken with the laptop's webcam."

      Then, I'm guessing... the school... obtained it.. from the... webcam? ... In direct contradiction to their statements that they don't use the cameras to spy on people.

      Idiot.

      You don't need to sign your posts.

    146. Re:To be fair by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Yeah, getting rid of all those folks who believe any damn thing you tell them sounds great.

    147. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It brings to mind the case of the kid in MA over Christmas who supposedly "got suspended for drawing a picture of Jesus". In reality, it wasn't a picture of Jesus, and he didn't get suspended, but because there was a lawsuit and publicity to be had, his father knowingly played up the false claims.

      It WAS a picture of Jesus, dead on the cross. It's just that the teacher got confused because the boy "put his name above" [ie: at the top of the page, like you do with all your schoolwork], leading the teacher to think "the student identified himself, rather than Jesus, on the cross".

      As for suspension, the school danced around that: "As a result, the boy underwent a psychological evaluation." But the report, which the father produced, indicated that "his son was not a threat to himself or others and could return to school." RETURN to school. As in, he was not allowed to go to back to school until he saw a shrink. As in, he was "suspended".

    148. Re:To be fair by brouski · · Score: 1

      The only real "modern" Christianity movement with any longevity and a smattering of cohesion is the Evangelicals. Saying that some do or do no believe anything is somewhat pointless, since they can make up just about anything they want and it's "okay". Nonetheless, the overwhelming majority are certain that once you're Saved, you're good.

      I frequent a message board or two with active religion sections that I browse from time to time. That generalization is far far FAR from the truth. The "works vs. grace" debate flares up often, and it gets quite heated.

      --
      Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
    149. Re:To be fair by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      ... they somehow had the resources to maintain efficient border control to keep people from leaving the country. That kind of speaks to the priorities of many nations.

      Perhaps one of their priorities is to prevent lone children from being kidnapped by child abusers, prostitution ringleaders and religious fanatics. If my country ever suffers anything remotely close to this disaster, I expect my government to keep an "efficient border control", for many good reasons.

      Well it is nice to know that the efficient border control also allows for refuges to starve instead of flee to another country when the infrastructure for food distribution but you keep on believing in the worst of people if you wish.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    150. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      take this guy named Saul for example. It doesn't matter what in the heck he did once he has some fit along the road to Damascus.

      Once the end state is achieved, in this case some mental state (as in a final state in some finite state automaton) the sequence of previous states traversed (i.e., the means) is "justified"

    151. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please explain the "great flood" without basically saying the ends justify the means

    152. Re:To be fair by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      You referenced the Crusades and tied them directly to modern day Evangelical Christianity by giving the Crusades as an example of Evangelical behavior. Modern Evangelical Christianity has no ties the Crusades, but the Catholic church does. The Catholic church has not renounced any of the tenets they held in the middle ages.

      And, yes, I'd say you have had bad experiences. I've known, and know, quite a few Evangelical Christians and they all are disgusted with those who preach hatred, rudeness, and confrontational behavior. I've also debated those who preach the theology of confrontation on forums such as TheologyOnline. In no way do I think that those people represent Christianity in any way, shape, or form. Just because they make the claim--take the name of--being a Christian doesn't make them one.

      There's a difference between actually being something, and just claiming to be something. Claims do not make reality.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    153. Re:To be fair by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Please define "extremist."

      Willing to break all of the commandments to get control of a group of people.
      A lot of these weird groups really preach hate in the name of Jesus. It really all comes down to what people do instead of what they pretend to believe. A "church" that provides no real charity and preaches hate of the poor can call their imaginary figurehead whatever they like but they are really more a political group or organised crime than a religeon.

    154. Re:To be fair by Mephistro · · Score: 1

      Well it is nice to know that the efficient border control also allows for refuges to starve instead of flee to another country when the infrastructure for food distribution but you keep on believing in the worst of people if you wish.

      If these good Samaritans really want to help with that issue, all they have to do is to bring food and help distribute it, which in terms of money/effort makes much more sense. Taking the children away is more expensive than helping them on the spot.

      The bit about "you keep on believing in the worst of people" really answers itself. It's not what I believe, but the fact that disasters like this several kinds of child abusers always appear, like sharks when there is blood in the water, and often represent themselves as members of NGOs. That alone is a good reason for keeping border control.

    155. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      On your first two points, the Catholic Church has acknowledged that they were wrong to do those things. So, those do not represent Christian teaching (the Catholic Church says that they were violating Christian teaching when they did those things).
      On your third and fourth points, those are the acts of God and not models for human behavior. As for your final point, the people that those things happened to certainly appeared to believe that it did. The example of the martyrs is of people willing to suffer in order to alleviate the sufferings of others (whether you believe that those others were suffering or not, the martyrs believed that they were).
      Sorry, case not made.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    156. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I thought we were talking about religion, not AGW believers.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    157. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Head: Now then, I see under hobbies & interests you've written: "spying on young boys and feeling up young girls"?

      Interviewee: Yes Sir.

      Head: Well, I can see you'll fit right in then! We've already got five gym teachers so if you want that position you'll have to wait, one-out, one-in, you know. Otherwise welcome aboard.

    158. Re:To be fair by WildBlueYonder · · Score: 1

      They could have caught him cutting open his little sister for all I care.

      The school claims the system was only used to locate stolen laptops. If the kid's laptop had indeed been reported as stolen to the school, all 'bad things' that it caught (like him masturbating) isn't the school's fault.

      If it HADN'T been reported stolen, then they have no 'get out of jail free card' on seeing him cutting open his little sister. They're still guilty of illegal wire tapping and if they've done it once, it really should be up to them to prove, no-one has been using the system to spy on people.

      Actually it seems like even if the laptop had been stolen spying on the thief would still be unconstitutional. They should have to report the theft to the police and tell them the laptop has that capability, the police would then get a warrant and use the camera. Of course using it in an actual theft scenario is far less immoral than how it was used here, and would still get you the laptop back, but it seems like the evidence gathered by school district with the laptop camera wouldn't be admissible in court.

      Some of the newer Anti-theft measures from professional companies work like this, where the owners of the computer don't have the ability to do the computer traces, the police have to contact the company directly. That is how the program-maker's newer programs work, and they are patching this error out of the older program used by this school district.

      For the car analogy, if your car with OnStar is stolen the police can contact OnStar and request that they kill the engine. The dealership that you bought the car from does not have the ability to kill the engine if you are late on your payments, or for any other reason.

    159. Re:To be fair by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Please link to that post. I never once mentioned the Crusades.

    160. Re:To be fair by dem0n1 · · Score: 1

      War in ME

      Whose at war with Maine? Why isn't this in the news?

      --
      Why save your soul when you can sell it for a profit?
    161. Re:To be fair by virg_mattes · · Score: 1

      They clearly and unambiguously said that the school never uses the webcams to monitor or discipline students.

      They've also admitted that the picture was from the laptop's webcam and they threatened disciplinary action on the basis of that picture. These facts directly refute the statement that you pointed out.

      Virg

    162. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, you just lost The Game.

    163. Re:To be fair by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Absolutely incorrect on both counts, because we do not know how the school obtained the picture.

      We know it was obtained through the school's use of the laptop's webcam, when the student was at his own home. We also know that they didn't have a warrant, or else the school would have said that already.

      Boom, that's all we need to know that the school drastically overstepped their bounds. More details will only tell us whether this is a case of malicious incompetence or pedophilia, but wont do anything to change the fact that school. broke. the. law.

      Period.

    164. Re:To be fair by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Actually that is not a teaching of the Christianity.

      Sure it is - see Joshua. You know, the part of the Bible where the Israelites go around and slaughter all their neighbors at the direction of Yahweh, sparing no one.

    165. Re:To be fair by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "The example of the martyrs is of people willing to suffer in order to alleviate the sufferings of others"

      So spreading the Holy Word justifies being killed, yes or not? So saving one's or some other's soul for the Eternity in Heaven does or does not justify anything else?

      Just an easy answer:

      'X' is reasonable, no matter what 'X' is, if it's the means to save the soul. Yes or not?
      'X' is reasonable, no matter what 'X' is, if it's God Itself the one asking for it (God asking Abraham to kill his firstborn). Yes or not?

    166. Re:To be fair by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "On your third and fourth points, those are the acts of God and not models for human behavior."

      On a side note, please remember that Genesis, no less, states that "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." (Gen. 1,27) so well, acts of God *ARE* in fact models for human behaviour.

    167. Re:To be fair by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      My bad on the Crusades bit. I somehow got the idea that some AC's post was yours. Sorry about that.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    168. Re:To be fair by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I am willing to sacrifice my life to better yours.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    169. Re:To be fair by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "I am willing to sacrifice my life to better yours."

      They were easy "yes/no" questions, weren't they?

    170. Re:To be fair by anaesthetica · · Score: 1

      ...how interrogations work. They showed him the picture and told him they knew it was drugs just to see what his response was...

      Is this your homework, Larry? Is this your homework, Larry? Is this your homework, Larry? Is this yours, Larry? Is this your homework, Larry? Is that your car out front? Is this your homework, Larry? You're entering a world of pain, son. We know that this is your homework. We know that you stole a car. And the fucking money. And, we know that this is your homework.

    171. Re:To be fair by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      The entire premise of a religion where you have to slog through 70 years of life in order to get an eternal reward is a prime example of what the poster was talking about. Particularly with the "I am Saved" variety of Christianity.

      That sounds a lot like the means justify the end. "The ends justify the means" is a phrase that means the end result is more important than how the result was achieved. If the eternal reward justifies the means, then why slog through 70 years? Suicide now! That's the new-age alien cult method. Christianity, while being *about* the ends, says that the means are very important, and that using the wrong means is proof of an attempt to reach the wrong end.

      Not really, not with the full meaning behind it all... you see, in numerous sects of Christianity, it doesnt matter what you do during life, as long as you "accept Jesus into your heart" before you die.

      That means you could be Hitler, and seconds before you die, "accept..." and go to heaven...

      It's not quite the same as either. It's more like "the means dont really matter, as long as you accept Jesus on your deathbed"

      Though, the actions of many sects of Christianity today still fall into the "ends justify the means" category as already discussed by someone else who mentioned the lobbying efforts and such nationwide. It just seems now, due to the laws of man, that such things are done in usually less violent fashion - unlike "back in the day" when "Converting the world to Christianity" was the goal/ends... and the means were conversion and failing that, killing the heathens leaving only the converted to achieve that goal.

    172. Re:To be fair by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      Various sects of Christianity though, still hold it as such.

    173. Re:To be fair by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      Don't most religions specifically exclude a lot of means - making them unjustified?

      Technically, Christianity (when one strays into the Old Testament) does not... as a matter of fact, it either endorses, or demands such things. For instance killing thy neighbor. Except it gets far worse than that... in some cases, the method of killing is prescribed (and brutal), such as stoning to death, burned to death and so on.

      And there are those who still believe those sections and solely dont follow them based off their fears of repercussions due to the "laws of man"

      In this century (and the 20th) there are still those who have tried, attempted and/or succeeded in burning to death those who disagree with or break "god's law"

    174. Re:To be fair by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      You also probably havent watched the various Baptist Televangelist sermons on Sunday morning TV either... watch one and count the crowd...

      Not saying his sentiment applies to everyone - I for one hate making such a generalization. What I AM saying is that it does apply to a larger portion of the population than most would believe.

    175. Re:To be fair by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      You may wish to review the blog of the guy who did the work behind the program. It seems that they most definitely were using the machines in such capacity and tried explaining it away to the students as a "glitchy web cam" or some such for all the complaints about the camera light coming on.

      Now while that does not prove this specific incident was from that, it does make it more likely.

    176. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience with dealing with public education. most principals are bored megalomaniacs looking for their next power trip. Being able to catch a student being "evil" and "bad" and dealing out a massive punishment is a wet dream for these fucks. The webcam takes it many steps further, it allows them complete and utter control over the student's life as long as they are in "his or her school" (taxpayer funded school)

      I've had my fair share of completely unfounded extreme accusations by so called educators (more like unionized leeches) and principals who like to trump up the severity of something.

      I was trading cards off campus. One of my teachers saw me trading cards.

      Guess what happened the next day? I got detention for breaking one of HER rules, except she made the claim I was doing it in her class. evidence be damned. Not just any old detention, but two weeks, complete with extra work (using course work as punishment, gee, great way to enforce educational values) all of this over something HARMLESS. I was also distracting other students apparently.

      One time a group of kids jumped me on campus; The administration being cowards, did nothing to the group of kids, but decided to put me into detention for instigating a fight, and threatened my parents that it could be "much worse" because "I gestured to take out a weapon." All of which is hilarious considering they werent around, and they questioned the guys who jumped me first, and didnt even ask me for my side of things, instead sat there and accused me of all sorts of bullshit.

      I tend to side with the kid on this one. Good chance he's full of shit, but there's an even higher probability that the principal is the one who's full of shit. You know, considering he's using spyware to spy on this kid's daily activities under the guise of protecting school property, which isnt exactly an honest thing to do.

    177. Re:To be fair by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between using a picture taken from a webcam, and using the webcam itself. The statements are not inconsistent.

      If you interpret the school's statements in the manner that you do, students could use the webcams to document any number of school infractions, on school property, hold the resulting pictures up to school officials, and go "neener-neener! you can't discipline us!" I don't think your interpretation is likely.

  3. excellent by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The news just keeps on getting better and better. The more absurd this story gets, the more it will stand out as an example of why this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    1. Re:excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. The only way this could get more absurd is if they had accused one of the students of masturbating in front of his computer.

    2. Re:excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish they did.

      Then the school district would be up on CP charges.

    3. Re:excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I can explain.

      The button on my pants popped out and they fell down, only for me to find a spider landed on my crotch from the ceiling, so I had to beat it to death with my fist and penis. I'm afraid of spiders so that's why I was all sweaty and panting, I was fearing for my life.

    4. Re:excellent by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      I am intrigued by your masturbatory ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    5. Re:excellent by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      Should I address that to "Mr Superintendent" or "Ms Assistant Principal"?

    6. Re:excellent by rochberg · · Score: 1

      Or, by being such an egregious example, it will enable more subtle violations that seem mild in comparison.

      While the spying issue is certainly central to this discussion, there's another aspect that I hope gets more notice in the legal fall-out of this case. Specifically, I'm concerned about the implications regarding due process. The student was apparently punished (though it is still not clear how), even though he had done nothing wrong (assuming the Mike & Ike's story holds water). If students are raised under the assumption that they are so powerless that they can be punished even when innocent, what are they going to think when they're grown? Even though courts have consistently limited the legal protections of minors and students in many cases, hopefully they do make it clear that a single photo taken out of context is clearly not adequate to use as grounds for discipline.

    7. Re:excellent by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      From the psychology texts I've read, the constant surveillance promotes paranoia, the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" amoral punishment promotes schizophrenia, and the outbursts of erratic, harsh punishment promotes sociopathy. Although, to be fair, the information I read on that aspect of sociopathy focused on early childhood development. It was not specified if it had an influence in later childhood as well.

      IANAP: Take this as amateur speculation.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
  4. Still can't, by SirBigSpur · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I still can't believe anybody but the IT department had access to this, and better yet no one in the IT department thought this might be a bad idea...

    1. Re:Still can't, by jimbolauski · · Score: 1

      Because the computer was the school's computer they probably had a remote desktop program on it, which is useful to patch, update, and troubleshoot the computer. Having those tools on the computer is not a problem it's how they were used that is the problem.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    2. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever met the admins in a public school system. I have and they aren't either payed enough to care or are somewhat incompetent.

    3. Re:Still can't, by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Most schools don't have a decent IT admin. They either cannot afford it or they are not competent enough to seek out and hire the competent. In the first case this usually results in a almost-retired technology teacher becoming the sys/network admin for a multi-campus site using CAT5 held together with wire nuts, in the former case you get an ego-tripping idiot that once attended a Microsoft Valueless Professional sales seminar.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    4. Re:Still can't, by Knara · · Score: 1

      You don't need a "remote desktop" program to do that. Having a "remote desktop" program basically means that you're doing it all by hand, which is the dumbest way to do it.

    5. Re:Still can't, by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Back when I was in highschool we had a teacher like that and "CAT5 held together with wire nuts" sounds about right.
      He was good.

      Later they outsourced it to a private company who came in with flashy but utterly useless systems and a "professional" admin who was both lazy and shared between 3 other schools.
      From that point on it sucked. Badly.

    6. Re:Still can't, by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Informative

      Somebody from the IT department sold the school board on this. And the school board claims that only two people in the IT department had access to activate the security software.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    7. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how else are you going to get an admin to work for peanuts unless you let them peep at underaged kids?

    8. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you obviously don't know anything about apple remote desktop, among other things apple remote desktop allows you to install and update programs remotely to many machines easily, you don't have to do the updates or installs manually you just tell is which machines need the program and give it the file, it installs for you and will even wait until a machine comes on the network to do the install if it is not available at the time, Apple Remote Desktop is a much more capable program than microsoft remote desktop, it's purpose is not just to remotely view a desktop, in fact that is a very small part of what it does, it can also collect data on what programs have been used and other things very useful for a business or school with a large deployment of macs.

      http://apple.com/remotedesktop

    9. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being able to update and repair a computer has nothing to do with the fact that they were getting transmissions from the laptops camera. Your typical VNC may work one way (no user interaction) or two way(user acceptance required), but that doesn't allow you to view the webcam unless you open up the webcam viewer on the client's computer, which they would notice. They had to have INTENTIONAL programming that with no specific outside commands forwarded the pictures to an outside destination via email or some sort of ftp. This is what brings up the illegal wiretapping claims.

      Beyond this, any IT idiot should know that a crook with a stolen laptop would know to format the drive before he even turned it on. They would probably be more suspicious for the LACK of photos being transferred than the photos of the user actually changing.

    10. Re:Still can't, by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a school IT guy. I can assure you we have good people working in IT here at this district. Let me stipulate the following.

      1)I've had a few MS trainings, and most were "theory" and otherwise worthless for my job. I've been Novel Certified way back when. Everything else I've learned on my own through some 25-30 years of IT work.

      2)We don't have a budget. NONE. And that was before the current economic crisis. All spending was (is) "project" spending, meaning we had to beg to get it funded. We had no replacement cycle plans for anything until THIS year, and even that is getting shelved now.

      3)Almost guaranteed that no IT guy was responsible for anything other than "can you make this feature work" ... and that was probably after the laptops showed up.

      4) Almost as assuredly, the IT guys don't have time to reviews pictures being archived automatically. It was probably someone else, looking for something specific (naked chicks/dudes, specific criminal activity etc).

      Our High Schools have ONE analyst for 2000+ students. Our Jr Highs have one Analyst and a couple part time techs for 2400+ students. Between the three analysts and two techs they manage 1500+ machines.

      We don't have time to do stupid stuff like this. However the "do-good" people in other departments would. AND they would easily justify their actions with "for the children" statements you often see. You see, it might mean a grant or increase in funding to stop/prevent/help/support (X), "for the children" of course!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    11. Re:Still can't, by JonStewartMill · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the old joke: "What's the most common first name of high-school science teachers in the [American] South?"
      "Coach."

    12. Re:Still can't, by Maestro4k · · Score: 3, Informative

      Somebody from the IT department sold the school board on this. And the school board claims that only two people in the IT department had access to activate the security software.

      And apparently this guy is the one who did so, at the very least he's a very, very avid fan of the software, and finds many of the really creepy features appealing. You can find a link to the guy's actual blog from that article too.

    13. Re:Still can't, by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Informative

      Okay. Crow being eaten as we speak.

      It was the IT guy(s), all on their own, so it seems.

      http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/02/spy-at-harrington-high.html

      Hang em High boys! Friggin bastard(s) And why do all the geeks that make news have to be fat dweebs?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how else are you going to get an admin to work for peanuts unless you let them peep at underaged kids?

      Heck, I do it for free.

      Kidding, kidding! I spend a ton on it. Ahhh too chicken to post non-AC. Look how paranoid Think of the Children has made me.

    15. Re:Still can't, by Knara · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's SCCM except for OS X. However, simply saying "remote desktop software" could mean nearly anything, including VNC-variants with no automated software install/update capabilities.

    16. Re:Still can't, by tdobson · · Score: 1

      that link is incredibly informative!

    17. Re:Still can't, by stryde.hax · · Score: 1

      Hey there, it's your friendly neighborhood hacker, stryde. Thanks for the link. I'm still working on protocol analysis on the trojan in use, but, I will tell you it's a block cipher over zlib compression, so, you can't just watch the screenshots going by in raw XML. I'm hoping to have a service fingerprint soon, but, no promises. I'll try to answer any replies here. Glad you enjoyed the writeup. -stryde.hax

    18. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      granted.

      I was just referring to the previous comment
       

      Having a "remote desktop" program basically means that you're doing it all by hand, which is the dumbest way to do it.

      is in fact wrong for a mac, it is actually the easy way

    19. Re:Still can't, by cusco · · Score: 1

      They don't become thieves because they're smart. More than once I've been approached with a request to crack the password on a computer that no one had the account information for. Once was truly user supidity, but the other times were either people who had bought a second-hand computer from someone who couldn't log into it or pawn shops. Almost no one steals a computer because they want to use it themselves, they either want to sell it or steal the information off it (or both).

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    20. Re:Still can't, by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Oh cool. I did enjoy the writeup. I don't have the patience or skill set to do what you do, so I read with semi envy your progress.

      And thanks for keeping me in the loop. I'm adding your blogspot to my gBuzz feed so I can keep up with it there.

      In case you want an ego boost ... "YOU DA MAN!" Otherwise, if you ever end up near me, I'll buy you a beer (or other adult beverage)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    21. Re:Still can't, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You work for Dekalb Co. Schools too?!?!

    22. Re:Still can't, by TechnoHippie2010 · · Score: 1

      "...I'm a school IT guy. I can assure you we have good people working in IT here at this district. Let me stipulate the following...." - which school district - the one in question here? "1) I've had a few MS trainings, and most were "theory" and otherwise worthless for my job." Nothing beats experience - but if you got nothing from your MS training classes then you took the wrong classes or are otherwise not learning for some reason. "3)Almost guaranteed that no IT guy was responsible for anything other than "can you make this feature work" ... and that was probably after the laptops showed up." Well the job of the IT guys it keep things working - ok so are you saying no new development and no updates at all then? "4) Almost as assuredly, the IT guys don't have time to reviews pictures being archived automatically. It was probably someone else, looking for something specific (naked chicks/dudes, specific criminal activity etc)." hahaha - you don't actaully expect us to believe that do you? First of all why are pictures being gathered and thus archived to begin with? It takes about 1 seconds to view 3 pictures so I'm sure that the amount of time you've spent here on this website writing things (which I see was done during business hours when you're supposedly "to busy" at work to do anything else).... Get a life dude.

    23. Re:Still can't, by DVD9 · · Score: 1

      They should have grabbed his hard drive. Probably has gigs of child p**n on it.

      --
      Why do "Al Qaeda" bulletins allegedly authored by Osama Bin Laden sound as if they were authored by Oliver North?
    24. Re:Still can't, by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      1) I learn stuff at classes. Just not useful for my job.

      2) Curious you don't mention lack of budget. I guess you know this to be true

      3) Updates are automatic.

      4) I'm actually capable of doing more than one thing at a time. Remoting into a flakey workstation, emailing people about printer setups, setting up wireless AP systems, imaging computers all at the same time. Sometimes even doing ALL these things I'm waiting for something happen. And slashdot has given me more useful information on how to do my job than anything I've seen in training manuals. This site has saved me more time than I've wasted reading it over the years.

      As for getting a life, thank you but I can go home at night knowing that 600 computers and the three networks and the WAN I manage (or help manage) is running smoothly. That means I can spend my evenings with my family. And I'd rather not spend 1 second of my day looking at stupid pictures of kids doing stupid things and getting my jollies from the random dude wanking his wang, or some cheerleader practicing cheers naked. And if I wanted to see those things, I'm sure there is enough of whatever fetish I want somewhere on the internet waiting for me to discover it.

      I'm not an elf lord dragon master, like the dweeb that created this mess. Nor do I want to be.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    25. Re:Still can't, by sakshale · · Score: 1

      Actually, I believe the GP post had it right. "We don't have time to do stupid stuff like this. However the "do-good" people in other departments would. AND they would easily justify their actions with "for the children" statements you often see." The IT department has a technology focus. I suspect they simply didn't think about anyone abusing the system...

      --
      For every problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious and wrong.
  5. Doesn't make much difference either way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really doesn't make much difference. The school shouldn't be punishing kids for taking drugs at home even if they really were doing that. If they came by the information legitimately then their choices are bringing the matter to the attention of the parents, the police, social services or some combination of those. If the information was acquired illegitimately then the choice gets a little harder but I can still see an argument for "we shouldn't know this but we really should let the parents know anyway and fire whoever got us into this mess". \deciding to discipline the student for a non-school related incident though is just completely the wrong move to make.

    1. Re:Doesn't make much difference either way by Eth1csGrad1ent · · Score: 1

      Oh FFS! Will you people STOP injecting LOGIC into a situation where it has no place. Far too often these days I'm seeing people trying to put forward logical arguments when railing against illogical scenarios. Enough already... its a bloodbath that's sickening to watch!

  6. Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apparently the school administration has lost all memory of being teenagers in the 60s and 70s.

    Hint: Drugs do not come in big candy colored shapes. Think powders, small tiny pills, pieces of paper, crude plant material, or crudely rolled cigarettes. FYI, Sweet Tarts and M&Ms are still legal in most states.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  7. eh by nomadic · · Score: 0

    School officials are notorious for being completely clueless about the law; it's amazing what you find in some of the case law.

    1. Re:eh by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Interesting

      School officials are notorious for being completely clueless about the law; it's amazing what you find in some of the case law.

      You don't even have to look that far. A year ago there was a big story about a school that strip-searched a female student because another student claimed he got Advil from her . She was even suspended, even though no pills were found.

      I understand the whole zero-tolerance policy of not bringing in any medication, but a flippin' strip search is uncalled for. They didn't even have law enforcement do it, one of the school admins had to do it.

      WTF

      What's scary is it had to go to the Supreme Court for them to say "ummm, that's illegal." They ruled on the matter in June 2009.

    2. Re:eh by nomadic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep went to the Supreme Court. The scary thing is a few of the justices sided with the school

    3. I understand the whole zero-tolerance policy

      When it comes to authority, I have a zero tolerance policy.

      --
      Responsibility is an addiction
      Virtue is a temptation
      Community is a cartel
    4. Re:eh by galadriel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Zero tolerance is not an understandable policy. It's an excuse for unhooking the brain of those in authority, an excuse for punishing kids equally for bringing a loaded automatic rifle and a keychain-sized toy gun to school, and an excuse for rampant power trips.

    5. Re:eh by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I understand the whole zero-tolerance policy of not bringing in any medication

      Can you explain it to me then? The world is full of shades of gray. How are we doing children a favor by pretending it isn't? If you want kids to respect authority, it has to behave in a way that's respectable. It cannot be arbitrary and capricious.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That would be good ole Clarence Thomas:

      "Justice Clarence Thomas was the lone dissenter. "Judges are not qualified to second-guess the best manner for maintaining quiet and order in the school environment," he wrote. "

    7. Re:eh by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      I understand the whole zero-tolerance policy of not bringing in any medication

      Can you explain it to me then? The world is full of shades of gray. How are we doing children a favor by pretending it isn't? If you want kids to respect authority, it has to behave in a way that's respectable. It cannot be arbitrary and capricious.

      Zero Tolerance is a pain in the but, believe me. Dealing with kids is one thing, but with the parents it's another.

      No unauthorized medication in school means just that, no unauthorized medication.

      Kids are using prescription and OTC drugs to get high, it's just a fact of high school life. I was young before it was a craze and it was already going on.

      If you want your kids to have access to specific meds then give a note to the school admins and the nurse will keep it stocked for you and dispense it to the kid as necessary. Though you'll probably need to buy a bottle and give it to the nurse.

      Otherwise you have kids giving kids medication that may give them a bad reaction, you have kids taking stuff to get high, you have kids TRADING with kids for medication to get high (happens A LOT), you have kids filling regular gel-tablets or bottles with street drugs, etc.

      The situation is you have kids getting busted for stuff that they may or may not be using to get high. No matter what, the parent is going to come in and defend the kid with their life even if the kid was obviously just bored and taking pills.

      Then how do you justify to Parent/Child B that they're getting suspended when Parent/Child A got a slap on the wrist. And god forbid there is an income/class/race difference between A and B, you'll get sued into oblivion, whether "A" had a good reason or not.

      Just don't bring stuff into school, it's not a complicated rule to follow. Nurses are staffed for just these occasions. The kid has a head-ache or a stomach-ache or I need prescription X for condition Y. Nurse looks up the kid, sees what they're allowed, and watches them take the pill.

      The one difference perhaps being emergency items life Inhalers and such.

    8. Re:eh by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Zero tolerance is not an understandable policy. It's an excuse for unhooking the brain of those in authority, an excuse for punishing kids equally for bringing a loaded automatic rifle and a keychain-sized toy gun to school, and an excuse for rampant power trips.

      I said in terms of medication. Nail clippers vs Switchblades vs Handguns are a different matter all together and I definitely don't agree with that.

      I just made what I thought was an insightful post elsewhere, you may have to scroll down for it.

    9. Re:eh by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Then how do you justify to Parent/Child B that they're getting suspended when Parent/Child A got a slap on the wrist

      How do you justify to Parent A that their kid is being punished for nothing? Punishing kids who did absolutely nothing wrong is a great way to instill in them a lifelong hatred of authority.

      If kids are abusing something, then punish them. If they're using something harmless, don't. Only a school administrator could find something so simple too complicated.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:eh by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Time to play the pedo card every time there is such a search. :)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    11. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW the Supreme Court is not the Moral Police full of philosophers and Gallup Poll statisticians. They're writ lawyers interpreting law.

    12. Re:eh by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Then how do you justify to Parent/Child B that they're getting suspended when Parent/Child A got a slap on the wrist

      How do you justify to Parent A that their kid is being punished for nothing? Punishing kids who did absolutely nothing wrong is a great way to instill in them a lifelong hatred of authority.

      If kids are abusing something, then punish them. If they're using something harmless, don't. Only a school administrator could find something so simple too complicated.

      Jaywalking is relatively harmless, but if you get caught by a cop that cares you'll get punished.

      Driving 30MpH in a 25MpH zone is arguably harmless, but some cops will pull you over and ticket you.

      Using another employee's PC while when nobody is looking to quickly log onto the Internet can be relatively harmless, but good luck keeping your job if you get reported.

      There are rules, they may seem foolish to you but they have their reasons. Break them and you get punished.

      If you don't agree with them, try to have them changed via PTA meetings and such. Bring up awareness, debate, etc. And that's a good lesson to teach your kid that I truly endorse.

      Student A prescribing meds to Student B is bad. It sounds like you need some bla-bla-bla, and the next thing you know the kid has a bad reaction.

      Student C swaps prescription bottle contents with Student D because they want to enjoy it. And good luck "proving" it if the pills look similar enough.

      Student E is taking capsules filled with what could be anything.

      Without access to a lab 24/7 specialized in identifying contents A-Z and a major legal team to handle health-related issues, you're pretty much screwed.

      So you say DON'T DO IT and assign the same punishment for all.

    13. Re:eh by dkuntz · · Score: 1

      Shit... I was nearly expelled from high school (a boarding school) because another kid took 6 vivarin from my room, took them all at once and ran head first into a tree (and bounced back up and asked "who put that tree there?"). The administration labeled me a "drug dealer" because I was in possession of over the counter medications, which anyone could have walked to the nearby general store and bought.

      This was back in the 90s.

      So schools have always been insane on "drugs".

      You just put a cough drop into your mouth! You must also be selling meth, because of that!

      --
      OMG... I have a sig?
    14. Re:eh by nomadic · · Score: 1

      You're right, for some reason I thought there was another dissent or two.

    15. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's scary is that the decision was not unanimous. There are 5 idiots on that bench.

    16. Re:eh by tsstahl · · Score: 1

      and there was no punishment because 'they thought it was ok' was enough to cover their butts. But not the hapless (helpless?) little girl's butt.

    17. Re:eh by mog007 · · Score: 1

      While I would have agreed with the majority in that case, I think Justice Thomas is trying to appeal to something. I forget the term, but there's a sort of unwritten rule that forbids each branch of the government to question the motives of the other two branches. In a situation where something isn't technically unconstitutional, but ethically offensive, the Supreme Court is supposed to abstain from bringing ethics into the matter, because they're not supposed to question the motivation of the other branches.

      Of course, this is a public school in a state, not Congress or the President, so it's probably a moot point, and Justice Thomas was just being a sick bastard.

    18. Re:eh by Frenchman113 · · Score: 1

      This is perfectly fine, because both automatic rifles and keychain toys are 100% legal in the United States of America. Perhaps you should preach your communist message in China where they don't have rights and the Second Amendment?

    19. Re:eh by galadriel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Zero tolerance for *anything* is pretty well inexcusable. It leads to precisely what you posted above: treating suspected minor infringements as massively illegal, threatening instances.

      No, there simply is no understanding of zero tolerance, not for any element of the rules.

    20. Re:eh by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The real sick part of this is that you seem to think it's ok to deprive a good kid who took a tylenol of an education, because some other loser might pop too many ritalin. Does that really jibe with your sense of justice?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    21. Re:eh by galadriel · · Score: 1

      Going 5 over in a 25 zone has a specific, legislated penalty (if someone happens to care enough to ticket you). Going 50 over in the same zone has a very different, enumerated penalty. They are not both treated as "he was speeding, throw the book at him."

      Zero tolerance treats *every* instance--even accidental ones or ones where the policy was too broad/too vague for the student to KNOW what they were doing was wrong--as exactly the same.

      And you mention a (should be necessary) exception: life-saving drugs that it would be okay for a kid to carry. If there are allowable exceptions, then it's not zero tolerance.

      ~ ~ ~

      But since you want to talk about medications, okay, here's something on meds.

      Oh, for heaven's sake, are you even familiar with meds that a kid might reasonably have to take in school? "Take a bottle in and give it to the school nurse"? Maybe for OTC drugs that might be "simple" (if stupid, to require a kid to have to go to a nurse for their own OTC drugs). However, that will be considerably more complicated with prescription meds--especially the kind that you have to get a new 'script for every month (eg, ADD meds) or expensive ones that you can only buy so much of at once, or ones so restricted that doctors won't write for extras even if it's legal. If the kid has to stay home when he's near running out of meds, and the school has his whole remaining supply hostage, he's SOL.

      You're talking about a major bureaucratic hassle at least once a month (getting the meds to the nurse, getting the forms filled out, etc etc). Just doing it *once* would be a major bureaucratic hassle, probably involving at least one parent having to miss some of a workday, or a whole shift if their job doesn't allow them to come in late.

      Supposing there's something you only have to take for a week, but you have to take seven times a day (I've had those). Well, it'd be easier to just not send the kid to school for those seven days, really--kid's going to be missing so much of class to go to the office and take the meds that he might as well not be there--except that now school systems automatically fail kids for missing a certain number of days in a term, even if they have a doctor's note.

      Is the school nurse (really, school have nurses again?) even licensed to be holding prescription drugs written out for someone else? This sounds like something that would require a pharmacy license.

    22. Re:eh by nomadic · · Score: 1

      You may be thinking of a "political question" doctrine. I don't even think Thomas is doing it out of any animosity towards this girl, but I do think he has some severe issues and a strong authoritarian bent (weirdly, not as someone who wants to be in charge, but someone who wants to submit to the executive branch).

    23. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep went to the Supreme Court. The scary thing is a few of the justices sided with the school

      That would be grandpa working beyond retirement... It never ceases to amaze me that people of an age whereby any sane person would and most commonly DO suspend driving privileges and most likely remove direct access to bank accounts, bills mortgages etc... and such are allowed to govern or dictate policy.
      "That's nice Grandpa put your pants back on and get out of the neighbors yard."

    24. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's even simpler than that. Zero tolerance is simply an attempt to shift the blame elsewhere.

    25. Re:eh by KiahZero · · Score: 1

      That's incorrect.

      The school officials were not held individually responsible, because it was not "clearly established law" (there were enough lower court decisions holding that such searches were legitimate to make it difficult for the Supreme Court to hold that the law was "clearly established"). That does not, however, mean that "there was no punishment." The school district was still liable, which is generally the more important thing, because the school district is the entity with the deepest pockets.

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
    26. Re:eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sort of thing happens more often than you would think. In Iowa several high school girls were forced to strip completely naked in a search for money another student reported missing. There is an Iowa law specifically prohibiting this, but no charges have been filed and the school decided to take no action until someone makes them.
      http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009909050337

    27. Re:eh by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That's how it was when I was in school, before anyone ever dreamed up zero-tolerance policies. You brought medicine to school and dropped it off at the nurse (very practical because elementary school kids aren't always the best at remembering when and how much to take). That includes aspirin (though in high school you were expected to be able to manage asthma medicine or midol on your own). If there was a problem there was no need for a policy, you just dealt with it, and the parents backed you up.

      Note that to get the medicine to the nurse, you had to first get it on campus. If zero-tolerance doesn't allow it on campus then how do you get it to the nurse? School nurses aren't pharmacists...

    28. Re:eh by russotto · · Score: 1

      Justice Clarence Thomas was the lone dissenter. "Judges are not qualified to second-guess the best manner for maintaining quiet and order in the school environment," he wrote.

      Hell, Clarence, you're a frigging Justice of the Supreme Court. Second-guessing is pretty much the JOB DESCRIPTION. If the idea is to just defer to one side or another, we don't NEED you; we'll just look up the complaining parties in a table and decide the case that way.

    29. Re:eh by russotto · · Score: 1

      Jaywalking is relatively harmless, but if you get caught by a cop that cares you'll get punished.

      Sure, with a small fine. Not the death penalty.

      Driving 30MpH in a 25MpH zone is arguably harmless, but some cops will pull you over and ticket you.

      With a larger fine than jaywalking, and a smaller fine than for driving 100mph in the 25mph zone. And there's no fine at all for doing 24mph in a 25mph zone.

      Using another employee's PC while when nobody is looking to quickly log onto the Internet can be relatively harmless, but good luck keeping your job if you get reported.

      I've never been at an employer where that would be an offense at all, let along a firing offense.

      There are rules, they may seem foolish to you but they have their reasons. Break them and you get punished.

      Or, in other words "RESPECT MY AUTHOWITAH!".

      If you don't agree with them, try to have them changed via PTA meetings and such. /blockquote.
      Doesn't work. These sorts of policies come down from on high. Nobody you can actually get to will admit to being able to change the rules. If you get to the highest rulemaking authority (e.g. the superintendent of schools), they'll claim their hands are tied because of their lawyers, the legislature, their insurance company, or what have you. This is a lie, of course; pretending powerlessness in order to exercise power arbitrarily is a common trick.

    30. Re:eh by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      I said in terms of medication.

      And you were wrong. Zero tolerance for drugs is no less ridiculous than zero tolerance for "weapons". Like galadriel said, it's an excuse for administrators to unhook their brains instead of having to exercise any judgment.

      Ibuprofen is as different from Adderall and crack as nail clippers are from switchblades and handguns. A student distributing ibuprofen to friends with headaches poses no more risk than a student distributing peanut butter sandwiches to friends who are hungry.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    31. Re:eh by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      No unauthorized medication in school means just that, no unauthorized medication.

      Yes, and it's a stupid rule. Not all medications are created equal.

      Kids are using prescription and OTC drugs to get high, it's just a fact of high school life.

      No one is using over-the-counter ibuprofen to get high. It's just a fact of biology.

      Then how do you justify to Parent/Child B that they're getting suspended when Parent/Child A got a slap on the wrist.

      Easy: all you have to do is realize that not all drugs are equal. "Your child was suspended because he was handing out crack. This other child got a slap on the wrist because she was only handing out ibuprofen."

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    32. Re:eh by pjsanfil · · Score: 1

      You don't even have to look that far. A year ago there was a big story about a school that strip-searched a female student because another student claimed he got Advil from her .

      This happens more often than you would think. Several teenage girls were strip searched in Iowa recently, supposedly looking for money one girl reported stolen. They even let the accuser watch the girls strip. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009909050337 Even though Iowa has a law against this, no charges have been filed and the school has said they won't do anything until someone makes them. Schools are almost completely unaccountable to their abuse of students in many states.

    33. Re:eh by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      But how else will we protect students from the horrors of 4th graders with Lego guns?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    34. Re:eh by WildBlueYonder · · Score: 1

      If he doesn't feel qualified to pass judgment on the administrator of a school then he may be in the wrong line of work. Maybe he should make a list of all the people he's not qualified to judge on and he can be removed from any trials which involve them. Of course if "Junior High School Administrator" is on that list it may be faster if he makes a list of the professions he is qualified to judge on.

  8. Wait.. by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wait, I thought the school made a statement saying they never ever used the laptop "security feature" for anything besides recovering lost and/or stolen equipment.

    How is snapping a picture of a student, with _no_ stolen laptop, following in line with their stated security policy?

    Ya, we didn't use it for its intended purpose. Ya, we did snoop around to satisfy our curiosity, but.. but.. BUT.. LOOK AT THE DRUGS!

    *Facts presented so far in this case are less than facts until a court rules. I don't claim to know what happened, I'm just a sheep parroting the hearsay I come across.

    1. Re:Wait.. by Rary · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How is snapping a picture of a student, with _no_ stolen laptop, following in line with their stated security policy?

      The school has claimed that the laptop had been reported stolen, and that they therefore enabled the security feature in accordance with their policy.

      How it is possible that the laptop could have been reported stolen when it clearly wasn't has never been explained.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    2. Re:Wait.. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the school has not addressed the issue ofthis picture at all. They say that the security feature that allows them to remotely activate the webcam has only been used on laptops that have been reported stolen. They never admit to using that feature on this particular laptop. The school never addresses the disciplinary issue that led to this law suit. The school doesn't even make a statement saying that they can't address the issues raised about this disciplinary issue. They completely ignore it in their statements.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    3. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The kid may have reported it stolen in an effort to steal it, and then was caught doing drugs when the webcam was turned on to ID the thief, and now he's taking advantage of the privacy violation and embellishing with lies about eating candy.

      Or not. Perhaps the school is actually insane enough to turn the camera off and peek at kids and see if they are doing drugs, and when they see candy, assume the kid is gobbling up 20 huge pills of LDS (joke).

      I think the kid's a liar and that there's nothing wrong with turning on a camera when a laptop is stolen (which if the student reported it stolen, it was stolen), but I obviously should wait for the facts to come in. I laugh when thieves get busted by tech they stole.

      If the school really is snooping on kids, people belong in jail. If the kid is making up his story, he belongs in jail (he's really fucking up people's lives if this is the case).

      It's really hard to believe that someone who works with kids would see a bunch of neon candies (that we all recognize) and think they were drugs.

    4. Re:Wait.. by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      How is snapping a picture of a student, with _no_ stolen laptop, following in line with their stated security policy?

      The school has claimed that the laptop had been reported stolen, and that they therefore enabled the security feature in accordance with their policy.

      How it is possible that the laptop could have been reported stolen when it clearly wasn't has never been explained.

      Don't get me wrong, there are a million and one reasons why this school's administration is completely messed up. And even so it doesn't really excuse anything, but...

      To play devil's advocate, it's possible that either someone reported the laptop as a prank or the wrong laptop got entered into the "missing" form by mistake.

      Maybe something as innocent as the digits on a serial number got reversed somewhere along the lines, or maybe the kid's friend/enemy though it would get him called into the principal's office for not reporting it himself.

      That does NOT excuse everything, but if true then it can at least explain why it happened at all.

      There's some quote along the lines of "don't immediately blame on conspiracy tgat which can be easily explained by stupidity." However I think this school messed up on a multitude of levels.

    5. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Yeah that's it. That's what happened just as you say. Yeah Yeah!

    6. Re:Wait.. by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      If you read between the lines in their statement, it looks like the school is trying to say that the kid took home a loaner laptop - which he was not supposed to do. I think they're going to try to say that since the laptop wasn't the one issued to the kid, they had the right to try to locate it and they "accidentally" caught the kid engaged in "inappropriate behavior," which if this claim turns out to be true was taking something that looked sorta like drugs.

      One more thing, from the summary, "the officials involved have done a particularly bad job of actually managing the events." How the hell do you do a good job of managing the event that a school vice-principle got access to pictures taken covertly in a minors bedroom? There's no managing that, that's a grade A screw up from the start.

    7. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a webcast that describes this security feature. It is described as deploying automatically whenever the the machine leaves the home Lan. Thus ANYTIME the student brings the computer home, the computer is reporting itself as 'stolen' and taking screen and webcam shots every 30 secs.

      http://webcast.macenterprise.org/2008Webcasts/2008-05-20-LANrev-Webcast.zip

      35:30

      It is then up to the sysadmin to decide which reports to take seriously.

    8. Re:Wait.. by Rary · · Score: 2, Informative

      I thought I had read that they stated the laptop had been reported stolen, but looking back on the articles it looks like they only implied it. Specifically, the AP reports:

      The suit does not say if his laptop had been reported stolen, and Young said the litigation prevents him from disclosing that fact. He said the district never violated its policy of only using the remote-activation software to find missing laptops. "Infer what you want," Young said.

      It seems like he meant to imply that the laptop had been reported stolen. Of course, an alternate explanation is that the image that was being used to target the student was not obtained via the webcam spying feature at all:

      According to the suit, Harriton vice principal Lindy Matsko told Blake on Nov. 11 that the school thought he was "engaged in improper behavior in his home." She allegedly cited as evidence a photograph "embedded" in his school-issued laptop.

      This almost sounds like they simply found an image on his hard-drive, and the webcam issue is unrelated. Of course, it's difficult to really know what a non-technical person is really saying when they talk about a "photograph" that's "embedded" in a laptop.

      (The above quotes are from this article.)

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    9. Re:Wait.. by Rary · · Score: 1

      Also to play devil's advocate, there is another possibility. Maybe the school obtained evidence of the "bad behaviour" through other means entirely unrelated to the webcam spying. For example, maybe the student took a picture of himself engaging in the "bad behaviour", emailed it to a friend, and a teacher caught the friend looking at the picture in class. Or maybe the kid took his laptop back to the school for service and somebody found an image on the hard drive. Then, when confronted with his "bad behaviour", he decided to "expose" the school's webcam spying functionality as a smokescreen.

      Just a thought. At this point, the whole story is 99% speculation with close to zero actual facts being released.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    10. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just a sheep parroting the hearsay I come across.

      Not a baaaa'ing parrot?

    11. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For even more amusement, there's this magical thing called "GPS" which provides you with much more of a hint as to where a stolen device is.

    12. Re:Wait.. by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      How the hell do you do a good job of managing the event that a school vice-principle got access to pictures taken covertly in a minors bedroom?

      Immediately fire everyone involved, and assure the public that the software is being uninstalled as soon as possible.

      That's probably the only good way they could have handled it. Why they have chosen to pretend they've done nothing wrong is beyond me.

    13. Re:Wait.. by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      How is snapping a picture of a student, with _no_ stolen laptop, following in line with their stated security policy?

      Automatic snapshots, sent to the server, archived for forensic evidence.

      Someone figured out where the photos were being sent, opened up Firefox and started to look through them all. Who knows what they saw. I'm sure this particular case was just what they figured they could take action on without causing a fire storm. Ooops.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:Wait.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The school has claimed that the laptop had been reported stolen, and that they therefore enabled the security feature in accordance with their policy.

      How it is possible that the laptop could have been reported stolen when it clearly wasn't has never been explained.

      Perhaps because the student claimed his laptop was "stolen" when in fact he just forgot it at home.

    15. Re:Wait.. by cxx · · Score: 1

      *Facts presented so far in this case are less than facts until a court rules. I don't claim to know what happened, I'm just a sheep parroting the hearsay I come across.

      Thanks for the footnote ... it should be at the end of every post in this discussion. /. can really go rampant on speculation, but what's new?

    16. Re:Wait.. by Wise+Dr+Funk · · Score: 1

      I'm a resident of LMSD and have some of my nieces and nephews attending it's schools (none in high school yet). The question as to how this theft system was activated has been flying around a great deal among the parents. The school has not addressed this point, but lawyered up instead. Let me fill you in on what the locals are saying. While I can't profess to any kind of certainty about this, word on the street is that the student in question had lost his laptop privileges prior to this debacle. What this means is that he no longer had a laptop to bring home and had to borrow a loaner while at school. The laptop in this particular case was supposed to be a loaner that was not to leave school property. When the laptop wasn't returned at the end of the day, it was presumed lost or stolen and that is when the infamous picture was snapped. I think we all know where the laptop was. This would explain why a laptop that was not lost or stolen could have been regarded as such. This would explain why the snapshot would have been taken. Please don't take this to mean that I support this kind of invasion of privacy. I think that the school had a responsibility to tell parents that their laptops had this kind of capability. Informed parents could have weighed the pros and cons and taken the laptops only if they felt like these terms were acceptable.

    17. Re:Wait.. by Pence128 · · Score: 1

      only if you mean "fire" in the "on fire" sense, and not termination of employment.

      --
      404: sig not found.
  9. Underwear check by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've mentioned this before, but from this:

    In April 2002, Rancho Bernardo received media attention when one of the school's assistant principals forced female students at a school dance to lift their clothing and expose their underwear, in search of G-strings and thongs. The district said the reason for the check was to "ensure appropriate school dress."[2] Rita Wilson, the assistant principal involved in this incident, was later demoted to a teaching position.[3]

    And it was later discovered that none of the students broke any rules. The rule was that underwear could not be showing. The problem is people making up the rules as they go along, often in secret. Our government for example...

    1. Re:Underwear check by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While off topic, your quote makes me weep for that school system. Take a Assistant Principle who can't follow the rules of the school, let alone the law, and put her in a position to _teach_ the kids.

      Not only was that disgusting, the "punishment" is frikkin' SCARY.

    2. Re:Underwear check by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Glad to see that they know how to hand out punishment!

      If I pulled a stunt like that at a business (inspecting female employee undergarments to ensure compliance with corporate dress code) you can bet that I wouldn't be facing a demotion to a job that pays a professional wage. I'd be lucky not to end up in prison, or with $30M in lawsuits, and I'd almost certainly never get a corporate job anytime in the next three lifetimes.

    3. Re:Underwear check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While off topic, your quote makes me weep for that school system. Take a Assistant Principle who can't follow the rules of the school, let alone the law, and put her in a position to _teach_ the kids.

      Not only was that disgusting, the "punishment" is frikkin' SCARY.

      Sorry, but this post makes me weep for the school system also. "Take AN assistant principal..."

      OK, you owe me some candy, or drugs that look like candy. Or both. All I have is this coffee. Sniff.

    4. Re:Underwear check by AndersOSU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Holy crap, from the wiki:

      # 2 Controversies

              * 2.1 Broomstick incident
              * 2.2 Underwear incident
              * 2.3 Noose incident
              * 2.4 Hacking incident

      Sounds like the school, and possibly the school district needs all new management.

      Also, if we think an administrator was inappropriately inspecting minor's underwear, how does making them a teacher solve a damn thing?

    5. Re:Underwear check by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      To put a different spin on this: I've heard that the "underwear checks" and "underwear rules" are being done because kids are having sex on the dance floors of proms, and they come without underwear to make the deed easier. Yes, I know it sounds completely unbelievable, but apparently it's the "cool thing" now. The students will crowd around a couple (kind of like alley cats) to prevent chaperones from seeing, and then go back to the usual grind. Frankly, the underwear checks are the wrong method of controlling the behavior, but school administrators have been hamstrung for so long about other methods of discipline, they're going to start overreacting like this a lot more in the near future. "Zero Tolerance" policies for "weapons" are only the tip of the iceberg.

    6. Re:Underwear check by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a complete and utter lie, told to scare parents to allow increasingly strict rule by schools. See also, "rainbow parties", those gel bracelets, etc.etc. These lies get told in every generation. Don't be so gullible.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Underwear check by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      That's a complete and utter lie, told to scare parents to allow increasingly strict rule by schools. See also, "rainbow parties", those gel bracelets, etc.etc. These lies get told in every generation. Don't be so gullible.

      Such "lies" were never told in my generation, and there weren't parent-chaperones speaking out in groups about it. Also, kids didn't "grind" as normal dance. Your ID marks you as older than or as old as me. Start asking questions. I'll bet you have at least one friend teaching at a local high school. The good kids are still the same, but the wild kids are quite different from what we remember.

    8. Re:Underwear check by Hasai · · Score: 1

      Not only was that disgusting, the "punishment" is frikkin' SCARY.

      That's the NEA for you. I swear you couldn't fire one of their union stiffs even if they showed up with a M249 and chopped to pieces every kid in the school.

      --

      Regards;

      Hasai

    9. Re:Underwear check by KC7JHO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And yet, many of you wonder why some people choose to homeschool!

    10. Re:Underwear check by SkeeZerD · · Score: 1

      The problem is people making up the rules as they go along, often in secret. Our government for example...

      I know it's off-topic, but this comment applies equally to the recent ACTA threads!

    11. Re:Underwear check by outlander · · Score: 1

      the wild kids are quite different from what we remember.

      With all due respect, NSM. I got out of HS in the early eighties, and without question I was a wild kid. What kids are doing now is nothing that hasn't happened before. Every generation of adults has considered every generation of kids to be 'wild and uncontrollable' - even the ancient Greeks wrote about it.

      --
      "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
    12. Re:Underwear check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But "commando" is still allowed, right?

    13. Re:Underwear check by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like *all* of the students broke the rule...

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    14. Re:Underwear check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, there's no wonder. A child predator often seeks to isolate and assert unquestionable authority over it's victims. Playing the role of teacher at home or at school is but one possible avenue.

    15. Re:Underwear check by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      the asistant pricipal didnt get jail time for this and is still working in education

    16. Re:Underwear check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You spell Principal, Principle and "you" weep for the school system?

    17. Re:Underwear check by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      I once worked at a shop that made Wal-Mart look pro-union. There was an ex-Navy guy who liked to sexually harass younger ladies, going so far as tell one of them "I'd like to rape the shit out of you".

      He was never fired. Therefore, private businesses shelter despicable, lazy people and should be banned ASAP.

  10. The Shamen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ikes are good! Ikes are good! Ikes are good!

    Mike and Ikes are good!

  11. Whose candy was it? by ZipK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do we know for a fact that it was factory-branded Mike & Ike's and not illegally copied or Chinese-bootlegged Mike & Ike-like candy? There's still ample opportunity to tie this story into several other perpetual Slashdot themes.

    1. Re:Whose candy was it? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 4, Funny

      Considering what ends up in Chinese foodstuffs, drugs would be the safer option.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    2. Re:Whose candy was it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1.Buy Mike & Ikes from local grocery store
      2.Sell M&I to high school students
      3.???
      4.Profit!

    3. Re:Whose candy was it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny that there are never any nationwide scare stories about the tons of contaminated food produced locally.

    4. Re:Whose candy was it? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      And did he share his candy with others? Because, you realize if he did it means lost sales for the makers of Mike & Ike. Perhaps the Candy Industry Association of America (CIAA) needs to investigate! ;-)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  12. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    They were drugs, just prescribed by Dr. Mario!

  13. Yo man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, how did that play out for the student trying to score?

    Yo man, you want to score some real ass shit? I got Mike and Ikes. I got motherfucking Candy Corn straight out of Mexico. I'm talking about the premium cane sugar shit. What are you? You tweek? I got pixie-sticks. I got warheads. I got pure, uncut rock candy. I got what you need, bro! No, I got your ticket. You're a peep head. Look at these, man. Check out the pink frosting. primo. That'll be four Washingtons, bro. Cash, man!

    Kids today...

  14. Cardinal Richlieu 2010 by StreetStealth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    “If you give me a 640x480 JPEG of the most honest of men, I will find something in it which will hang him”

    --
    Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
    1. Re:Cardinal Richlieu 2010 by mkiwi · · Score: 2, Funny

      "If you give me a 640x480 JPEG of the most honest of men, I will find something in it which will hang him"

      Personally, I'd like to be hung in one of those new electronic frames that switch the picture every 30 secs, although 640x480 is really pushing the envelope for decent pictures.

    2. Re:Cardinal Richlieu 2010 by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I'd like to be well hung too.

      I'll get my coat.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  15. Original quote by odin84gk · · Score: 1

    The original clip that specified Mike and Ikes.:

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/tech/WebcamGate_Family_s_Attorney___Who_Has_Access__Philadelphia.html

  16. Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by Hellasboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    LOL!
    Oh man... Back in high school, I routinely grabbed a box of mike & ike (pink and white flavor/version) from a vending machine and kept it in my backpack to snack on. One day in class, a kid that sat next to me in the row over saw that I kept putting my hand in my backpack and eating something. So he asked what I was eating.
    Being a jackass, I replied secretly ... "I'm popping steroids"
    Big white and pink pills... huge effin steroids!
    He started yelling in class "Steroids! Steroids! He's popping steroids!!!!" Everyone looks over and I didn't expect that kind of reaction from something pretty comical. Luckily nothing came of it, I just replied really quickly that they're just Mike and Ikes... a few laughs later - everything was fine.

    I would expect a high school student to do something like this. However, a principle of a high school should know better and this mess reeks of incompetence on his part.

    --

    "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
    1. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by WilyCoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hope the ending of your story is something like "And then I beat that snitch's ass after class that day"...

    2. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      These days, some "school resource officer" (yes, schools today have actual full-time cops on duty) would probably have you in handcuffs and standing before a judge for that. The other day I read about an 11-year-old girl who got arrested by her SRO for writing on her desk with a marker. Hire a cop and he has to justify his job, after all.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Uh, Mike&Ike's are multicolored. Good&Plenty was pink and white.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by maxume · · Score: 1

      Why bother? The snitch is his own punishment, he has to be himself.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...in a roid rage...

      Quality: my captcha is a hooker

    6. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by Hellasboy · · Score: 1

      I think they were Mike & Ike's strawberries and cream. They don't make that flavor anymore :(

      --

      "Tread softly because you tread on my dreams"
    7. Re:Haha, 'ol Mike & Ikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly the victim of candy OD induced memory issues.

  17. Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I go to Villanova University, which is 5 minutes by train from Lower Merion. One of my profs has a daughter that goes there (when I showed him the brief on Thursday, he was floored.)

    The Mike & Ike thing is pretty damn bizarre, but it makes sense.

    I expect the school already deleted the logs. Then again, given the tech competence of my own high school (all software and VLKs were on public shares, all documents were accessible [all users] if logged in via RDP, including passwords to the externally hosted attendance/transcript web app, etc.), it would not be terribly surprising if they just saved it all.

    And I was disciplined for taking prescription medication for which the school had a proper release (i.e. I signed the right form and gave a doctor's note saying I needed to have the medication on my person). Nosy administrators "thinking of the children" and overreacting to non-issues (as well as egregious violations of privacy) would be nothing new in my book.

    1. Re:Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      If they deleted the logs expect (more) heads to roll. At this point I wouldn't put anything past the administrators of the school, but god damn, don't look like you're trying to engage in a coverup while your pleading that you didn't do anything wrong. FWIW the school says they're engaging in an audit of those logs.

    2. Re:Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The student's lawyer is asking a judge for an emergency ruling that the school not engage in despoilation of evidence, and The FBI is now involved. You know, at the point where the FBI is called in to investigate your wrong-doing, maybe you should start thinking about admitting that you actually fucked up!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by DVD9 · · Score: 1

      "You know, at the point where the FBI is called in to investigate your wrong-doing, maybe you should start thinking about admitting that you actually fucked up!" I guarantee you that no prosecutions will flow from this. Not to anyone from the school board. Cops and teachers hang together, all the way to the altar. They're family.

      --
      Why do "Al Qaeda" bulletins allegedly authored by Osama Bin Laden sound as if they were authored by Oliver North?
    4. Re:Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hopefully audit != delete

    5. Re:Bizzarre doesn't begin to cover it by iphinome · · Score: 1

      I disagree, at the point where the FBI is called you should start thinking about your 5'th amendment rights and shut the hell up.

  18. The School is in Pensylvania by number6x · · Score: 5, Funny

    The School is in Pensylvania and Mike & Ike's are made in Illinois. This is obviously a case of corporate funding in public schools gone awry! Hershey's will not allow the children of Pennsylvania to be poisened by the corn syrup generated candies of Illinois!

    They are just acting to protect our youth!

    Think of the children.

    1. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by kaizendojo · · Score: 4, Informative

      For the record, Mike and Ike candies are manufactured in BETHLEHEM, PENNSYLVANIA by the Just Born company - who also makes Peeps, (I know becuase I live about 5 miles from the factory) which makes it even stranger that they wouldn't be able to identify them. The real question that remains unanswered is why officials were viewing through the web cams in the first place - what gave them 'probable cause' to believe that such steps were necessary. Remember, the software was installed to enable them to take a picture of the current user if they believed the laptop was stolen. At no point have they even hinted that they thought the laptop in question was stolen.

    2. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a Pedophile?

    3. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey, pervs gotta work, too. And rarely do they need a justification for their actions.

    4. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Kreigaffe · · Score: 2, Funny

      Let's be fair and let's be clear. It's not hard to mistake one product as drugs from a company known to manufacture other highly addictive substances. Peeps are puffed crack.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    5. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by CharlieG · · Score: 1

      Heh - I used to work for a consulting company based out of Windgap...

      --
      -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
    6. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Maestro4k · · Score: 5, Informative

      The real question that remains unanswered is why officials were viewing through the web cams in the first place - what gave them 'probable cause' to believe that such steps were necessary. Remember, the software was installed to enable them to take a picture of the current user if they believed the laptop was stolen. At no point have they even hinted that they thought the laptop in question was stolen.

      I think the answer is a combination of a network admin with a BOFH complex and really, really invasive spyware masquerading as security software. This article is very informative, especially this section of a longer video with the network admin from the school system talking about the software. One thing I noticed in there was his saying that the software could be set to take webcam shots anytime it was booted up and wasn't on a the school network, then upload the photos to the school's server. There you go, instant webcam spying anytime the students take the laptops home, approved or not.

      It's also interesting to note that the theory some people had that the student took webcam shots of himself and that's what the school was using is impossible. The webcam could be not be activated, used or deactivated by the students. Trying to Jailbreak the laptop to allow you to do things like disable the webcam was an offense punishable by expulsion. Oh, and just for good measure, students weren't allowed to use their own computers at school.

    7. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by richlv · · Score: 1

      can we finally get names of the persons looking at these kids naked/drugged/whatever ?

      i mean... i'd surely consider accidentally tripping next to them and completely accidentally hitting them every time i pass them.

      --
      Rich
    8. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by dcroxton · · Score: 1

      It's also interesting to note that the theory some people had that the student took webcam shots of himself and that's what the school was using is impossible. The webcam could be not be activated, used or deactivated by the students. Trying to Jailbreak the laptop to allow you to do things like disable the webcam was an offense punishable by expulsion. Oh, and just for good measure, students weren't allowed to use their own computers at school.

      They may not have been able to deactivate the webcam electronically, but I'll be a piece of dark-coloured paper and some tape would have worked wonders. Not that the student should have known this, but maybe something to think about if you ever have a borrowed laptop with a webcam.

      --
      Sincerely, Derek

      A curious little blog
    9. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Uhg, I beg to differ. Peeps are extremely nasty.

    10. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      "Probable cause"? The schools aren't supposed to be part of law enforcement, so "probable cause" doesn't apply to them, or to this case.

      Yes, I know - more and more cases are being publicized, in which communities blame the schools for the actions of the kids. Some school administrators seem to respond to this by trying to become law enforcement agents, but the fact remains, they are separate and distinct from any recognized law enforcement agency.

      Probable cause to believe some kid is up to no good? Talk to the local sheriff or police chief. The school's responsibility begins and ends right there.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    11. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Maestro4k · · Score: 3, Informative

      They may not have been able to deactivate the webcam electronically, but I'll be a piece of dark-coloured paper and some tape would have worked wonders. Not that the student should have known this, but maybe something to think about if you ever have a borrowed laptop with a webcam.

      Reports from current and former students are many did indeed do just that, putting non-transparent tape or sticky notes over the webcam lens.

    12. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is a school buying laptops for every student? We can't afford to keep the teachers we do have, class sizes are increasing, many teachers have to buy school supplies out of their own pocket, and yet this school manages to find the funds to buy an expensive web-cam enabled laptop for every student? Most tech companies don't even buy laptops for every worker, it's too expensive. And this is a public school, not even a rich private one.

    13. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'd DBAN the hard drive on the DOD setting, than reload an operating system of my choosing. but thats just me.

    14. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ive got a great jailbreak for disabling the webcam - put a peice of electrical tape over it when you take it home, or sticky tape a bit of paper across it.

    15. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the comments on the youtube video is kinda revealing:

      all of these statements are being blown completely blown out proportion. First off it was not even our school, it was another school (harriton high school) which is also in our district. One kid never paid his insurance for the computer, thus he wasn't allowed to take it home. However, he took it home so it was reported as stolen. Therefore it was a justified use of the program. Many schools have this program our school is just different because each student is allo...

      Sounds like a good explanation to me, although the source cannot be verified.

    16. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by el3mentary · · Score: 1

      Trying to Jailbreak the laptop to allow you to do things like disable the webcam was an offense punishable by expulsion. Oh, and just for good measure, students weren't allowed to use their own computers at school.

      That may be so but a strip of duct tape over the lens works wonders

      --
      I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    17. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by transistor_fet · · Score: 1

      Black vinyl tape over the webcam would do the trick. Although from what's transpired so far, I wouldn't be surprised if any student caught doing that would be expelled for "hacking."

    18. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by falsified · · Score: 1

      That's cool. The students were using it to do their homework, but yeah, yours is nice too.

      --
      HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
    19. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Why is a school buying laptops for every student?

      They had a grant of federal money specifically for the laptops; your tax dollars at work. Next question.

    20. Re:The School is in Pensylvania by kalirion · · Score: 1

      It was an investment promising great returns with the sale of the first child porn compilations.

  19. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Zocalo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Yeah, but if you actually remember the Sixties then you weren't there, man! Plus, you've got to figure that the double whammy of Alzheimer's and Senile Dementia is starting to creep up on Gen-X as well by now. All in all, I think it's quite understandable that they might have forgotten whether or not they even inhaled, let alone what the shit actually looked like, besides wasn't everything in trippy colours back then, I can't quite remember...

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  20. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hint: Drugs do not come in big candy colored shapes.

    I'm guessing you didn't attend a lot of Grateful Dead shows....

  21. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apparently you don't know what it was like being a kid in the 80s and 90s. Prescription pills are the drugs of choice by most these days, easier to get by with in plain sight, generally easy to come up with an excuse for having on you or taking, only illegal if you don't have a prescription ... which you don't typically carry around with you.

    and ...

    Even less noticeable when you carry them around in a candy box and act completely normal with them.

    You clearly were not part of the crowd who 'did drugs in school', thats probably a good thing, just stop pretending to know what goes on with the kids who do. If you have kids, I suggest you ask them about the drugs in their school rather than telling them about drugs, they'll probably already know more.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  22. More info on Network Adminsistrator. by pavon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It turns out that one of the the network administrators at the school district has a fairly large online presence, and has posted quite a bit relating to this program on his blog over the years. Some folks have started looking over the blogs and the software being used, and it is pretty interesting.

    1. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by hackus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some comments:

      1) I wouldn't do any of these things to anyone, who bought a computer from me.

      2) If the state offered me a trillon dollars to build laptops with software like this I would not do it.
      (Even if they sent me to prison.)

      There are plenty of ways to retrieve a stolen laptop without pictures or this kind of control, which is entirely not required.

      3) It is a sad day when nobody even bothers remembering what tyranny was, and so how unsurprising it begins with scum bags like this to spy on our children just to start with.

      I am getting the names of these guys in the area because they won't ever be working for my company.

      I will also object to working with these scum bags on any technology project or new business I get. If the customer doesn't know what they are doing or why I object I will make sure to educate them.

      People like this are a danger to our constitution, and should be pitied, and black balled.

      -Hack

      --
      Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
    2. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      Thanks for this. Very interesting Indeed. I'll be very curious to see how the courts handle all this, because on the face of it, this seems pretty damning.

    3. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by magus_melchior · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With some of my colleagues, I began a reverse engineering effort against LANRev in order to determine the nature of the threat and possible countermeasures. Some of the things we found at first left us aghast as security pros: the spyware "client" (they call it an agent) binds to the server permanently without using authentication or key distribution. Find an unbound agent on your network with Bonjour, click on it, you own it. The server software, with an externally facing Internet port... runs as root. I'm not kidding.

      So his little spyware server is also a reverse rootkit for the district servers. If he didn't update the server software in a hurry, that is an incredible invitation for hackers, like leaving an unfirewalled Windows PC directly connected to the Internet.

      He's also inviting possibly ticked-off students to take revenge on school servers. I think he'll be out of a job unless he really sweet-talks the board.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    4. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      You should be modded to +50. If HALF of the information from that page is true then Mike Perbix is one twisted son of a bitch.

    5. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by hansamurai · · Score: 5, Informative

      Some of those testimonials are very revealing about how the school district abused the webcam:

      "Hi, I'm a 2009 Graduate of Harriton Highschool. [...] I and a few of my fellow peers were suspicious of this sort of activity when we first received the laptops. The light next to the web cam would randomly come on, whether we were in class, in study hall or at home minding our own business. We reported it multiple times, each time getting the response: "It's only a malfunction. if you'd like we'll look into it and give you a loaner computer."

      "The webcam couldn't be disabled due through tough tough security settings. Occasionally we would notice that the green light was on from time to time but we just figured that it was glitching out as some macbooks do sometimes. Some few covered it up with tape and post its because they thought the IT guys were watching them. I always thought they were crazy and that the district, one of the more respectable ones within the state, would never pull some shit like this. I guess I was wrong."

    6. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by orkim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Obviously 'Mike Perbix' was upset that a student was eating/using 'Mike And Ikes' and Mr. Perbix was not getting a fair licensing deal for using his name sake.

      This should be resolved as soon as the likeness licensing is settled. I predict a large payout for Mr. Perbix.

    7. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that link. Wow, just Wow.

      "Hi, I'm a 2009 Graduate of Harriton Highschool. [...] I and a few of my fellow peers were suspicious of this sort of activity when we first received the laptops. The light next to the web cam would randomly come on, whether we were in class, in study hall or at home minding our own business. We reported it multiple times, each time getting the response: "It's only a malfunction. if you'd like we'll look into it and give you a loaner computer."

      If this is half as bad as it sounds, they're screwed.

    8. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any way to unblur this guy's IP/DNS from the vid? Would be quite funny to see the software used to spy on these kids used to leak his IP/DNS to the slashdot nation.

    9. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by yabos · · Score: 1

      Dirty old IT guys are probably trying to catch some n00d cheerleaders in the locker room.

    10. Re:More info on Network Adminsistrator. by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Give me some duct tape and ill disable it for you.

  23. Re:Underwear, check; broomstick, check; noose, che by Thud457 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    holey crap, for a school that's only been around for 20 years, they've got a remarkable number of fucked up incidents

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  24. missing part of the story by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

    What they left out is she was required to teach in a g-string.

    1. Re:missing part of the story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Letmeguess, on top of that, the class she is teaching is either the band or orchestra...

    2. Re:missing part of the story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And thus the school has a violin teacher.

  25. That's how we roll in Philly by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 1

    "particularly bad job of actually managing the events" is how we do it.

    IE, see last summer's racial incident at the hunnington valley swim club when black kids were invited, then banned from the pool.

    1. Re:That's how we roll in Philly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goddamn it. I just went through the trouble of reading that horseshit. They didn't want a bunch of kids running around the pool. There's nothing to do with racism there. If you really think a business would make a public statement advocating racism then you're dumber than most people from Philly.

    2. Re:That's how we roll in Philly by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Although it is possible that was their motivation, going on record as saying "we don't want that kind of kids at our pool" is more than stupid. Also, "public servants" DO make statements advocating racism, just like this guy, who said of interracial marriage, "I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way."

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:That's how we roll in Philly by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      "I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child,'" said camper Dymire Baylor.

      "When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

      Can you at least see why some of the campers and parents were concerned?

  26. Dinner and a show by magusxxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What are the chances Mr. Schooladministrator will be asked, "Why did you watch Billy Beatnick supposedly taking drugs for 30 seconds and then watch Chelsea Cheerleader for the next 3 hours?"

    --
    Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
  27. And now I'll be suing for injuries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just facepalmed so hard that I think I broke something. The school will be hearing from my lawyers.

  28. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 0, Troll

    True. I wasn't a kid in the 80s or 90s. Prescriptions were considered too tame when I was a kid.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  29. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by SnarfQuest · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Still legal, for a short time.

    However, the Obama we-hate-fat-kids panel will soon fix that loophole.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  30. Burned by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    Some guy sold me a bag of Mike & Ike for $50 and when it didn't do anything we realized it was Good & Plenty.

    My girlfriend gave me grief about it and I was like, "why don't you score it next time, it's not like any of you bitches have red-green color blindness!"

    1. Re:Burned by sconeu · · Score: 1

      and when it didn't do anything we realized it was Good & Plenty

      You didn't even see Choo-Choo Charlie?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Burned by shadowrat · · Score: 5, Funny

      dude! one time at a phish concert, i thought i had some bad Mike & Ike. The mellow sweetness turned to burning and pain and i ran around screaming. Nobody could figure out what was wrong, but it turns out someone slipped some Hot Tamales into my Mike & Ike.
      from now on, i'm only getting my Mike & Ike when i'm in Amsterdam where they can control the stuff.

  31. Only in america... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hahahahha.. this is my first post ever on Slashdot.

    Just had to say, some of you americans are totally insane, and this case really proves it. I just shock my head in disbelief.

    Anon coward from Norway

    1. Re:Only in america... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are over 300 million people in the US. Quite a bit more if you really are talking about 'America.'

      I don't disagree with you. Some people here are totally insane. Some people are just rather stupid. It's not too disturbing in a statistical sense. Some people are unfortunate to be at the tail of the bell curve. Sometimes, these events are just reminders to be glad it's not you.

    2. Re:Only in america... by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      We're busy trying to catch up to the insanity you Eurotypes have been unleashing on the world for hundreds of years. You've had a headstart, it's not fair.

  32. More BS from the school by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What are the odds that they took one picture and it just happened to be of a kid doing drugs? Zero. The big question: how many pictures would you have to take in order to guarantee a picture of a kid doing drugs? Hundreds? Thousands? That's the crime here, all the pics they took where someone was NOT doing drugs.

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:More BS from the school by Fastfwd · · Score: 1

      I think that even the one pic of him doing drugs if this happened was also a crime but most of all...

      I think that installing this on the laptops and not telling anyone was the worse crime of all and was also immoral.

    2. Re:More BS from the school by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      Eh, these are school laptops, I don't see anything wrong with installing this capability. However, you ought to know damn well that this has a potential for abuse and have iron-clad approval streams for using this feature. Going after stolen laptops is fine. Snapping pictures whenever IT wants to is a giant F-up.

    3. Re:More BS from the school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently someone ratted him out for being a "druggie", so the IT guys turned on the spying system and waited they got some evidence.
      The REAL crime here is going after someone for what they do in their own home, using a system that's only supposed to be used for locating stolen property.

    4. Re:More BS from the school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Installing the capability... maybe
      Doing so without informing the person: definitely not. What is next, cameras in the workplace; in clothing store's changing rooms?

    5. Re:More BS from the school by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      I can agree with that. Although, cameras are pretty common in the workplace.

    6. Re:More BS from the school by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that the crime is taking the photo of the kid while he was at home regardless of whether he was doing drugs or not. The school's business begins when the students enter the building and ends when the students leave the building. If he came to school stoned, by all means exact punishment, but a kid sitting in his room in his parent's house is out of the school's jurisdiction. They have no right to spy on kids to see what they're doing while at home.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  33. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by spun · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but if you actually remember the Sixties then you weren't there, man! Plus, you've got to figure that the double whammy of Alzheimer's and Senile Dementia is starting to creep up on Gen-X as well by now. All in all, I think it's quite understandable that they might have forgotten whether or not they even inhaled, let alone what the shit actually looked like, besides wasn't everything in trippy colours back then, I can't quite remember...

    In fact, America's Finest News Source is reporting on this very story.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  34. KNOWING is half the battel! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, much better to keep people ignorant so they're incapable of making informed choices!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  35. The Crazy loop. by jellomizer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Schools are overpopulated with kids from poor/undereducated families.
    These kids cause trouble.
    Schools find ways to kick out these students to bring their "Numbers" Up.
    Kicked out students are deemed as failures grow up in a few years stuck in the same area.
    Live in poverity have kids.
    Kids go to school...

    Schools need to find reasons to keep them in schools not find reasons to kick them out. It doesn't matter if they are not model students or model human being. They should have a chance to succeed inspite of themselfs.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:The Crazy loop. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Informative

      Schools are overpopulated with kids from poor/undereducated families

      Not Lower Merion School District. Lower Merion School District has one of the highest per captia income of the school districts in Pennsylvania.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:The Crazy loop. by chaodyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Public schools don't want to kick students out. Federal funding is determined in part by the number of students enrolled, thus more students equals more funding. That's why they want your kids to go to school regardless of health on the "federal counting days". From what I've seen, they're more interested in passing kids along regardless of performance than kicking kids out (this from a father with two in school right now...)

    3. Re:The Crazy loop. by vlm · · Score: 1

      That's why they want your kids to go to school regardless of health on the "federal counting days"

      In my state, they switched from that to hourly tabulation in 1990/1991.

      Before the switchover they were very interested that you showed up in the morning, the rest of the day they didn't care very much.

      After the switchover, the school lost a certain amount of money EVERY SINGLE "CLASS" you didn't attend. Including study hall. My parents were ready to skin me alive when they found out about my triple digit truancy record, but thankfully the school provided records that I only skipped out of study hall and occasionally gym class. I was right under the limitation for criminal prosecution also. I think my high GPA helped a bit. Shortly thereafter we got retired people as "guards" and a couple years later they got genuine prison style guards. This in a rather wealthy, basically crime free district.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:The Crazy loop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because their families are poor or uneducated does not mean these are the kids causing trouble, you elitist punk. MY family was poor and before me, only my father had a high school diploma. I am the first in my family to get a degree (two actually). When I was in school (70's and 80's), it was the spoiled, rich brats causing the most problems. So, you can shove your "cycle of poverty" crap. I've got 5 siblings. None of us are on welfare (hell, I probably make twice what you do), nor are our kids causing trouble in school. You rich preps tick me off. Mommy and daddy didn't spend enough on the car they bought you?

    5. Re:The Crazy loop. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      They don't just want the kids in school. They want the kids in "special programs" in school.

      True story. Sister-in-law is a teacher in Reidsville, NC school district. One child needed special attention for a day for a reading disorder. The administrator got the kid reclassified to an entirely different category, because that category would have the federal government pay for an entire full-time teacher's salary instead of the district having to pay for a part-time salary.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    6. Re:The Crazy loop. by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      This pisses me off. I was very sick when I was young. I was unable to attend school about half the time. I was declared legally handicapped by doctors. And yet, despite passing all my classes I was going to be held back from graduating because they wouldn't give me credit due to missing so many days. Had I stayed in school, I would not have graduated until I was 21. It took more than a year to convince the school I should be allowed to take the GED test. A few months later I was 17 and in college.

    7. Re:The Crazy loop. by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      The flip side of that is that now we have Standardized Tests that students must pass, and those numbers matter even more to the school, since too high a failure rate costs you your federal funding. So now schools would rather drop failing kids than keep them sitting in classes.

  36. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Knara · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except in this case if Rx drug abuse was the claim, the school wouldn't have any idea if the pills were legit or not.

  37. How long did they spy by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    So they used web cams to spy in the school and students got accused of taking drugs when eating Mikes and Ike's? Don't people know you should turn off your web cam unless you using it, well it's not expected that someone would spy on you at the same time it's simply good practice to turn it off.

    1. Re:How long did they spy by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Even if it is impossible to turn it off, a piece of black sticky tape on the lens should fix the problem.

    2. Re:How long did they spy by vlm · · Score: 1

      Even if it is impossible to turn it off, a piece of black sticky tape on the lens should fix the problem.

      Violating computer security requirements / Evading school anti-terrorist threat reduction / Hacking computer violation / intentional vandalism of property

      equals

      Mandatory expulsion and/or criminal charges and/or financial liability to "fix the damage"

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:How long did they spy by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      That none of the above, not having your personal right to privacy violated. It the same as the school being a peeping tom, it's illegal.

    4. Re:How long did they spy by vlm · · Score: 1

      That none of the above,

      how is it not all of the above?

      not having your personal right to privacy violated

      They don't have one. They are slaves to the government appointed masters at school.

      it's illegal.

      Well, duh, but if Silly Sally Cheerleader was putting electrical tape over the camera while she changed clothes at home in her bedroom, and in a "totally separate situation" the IT guy found out about her vandalism she would be threatened until she stopped. If she's dumb enough, the IT guy is back to getting an eye-full.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:How long did they spy by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Well, duh, but if Silly Sally Cheerleader was putting electrical tape over the camera while she changed clothes at home in her bedroom, and in a "totally separate situation" the IT guy found out about her vandalism she would be threatened until she stopped. If she's dumb enough, the IT guy is back to getting an eye-full.

      Then she tells the IT guy to fuck off, installs Linux and if the IT guy says anything she goes to the school board and gets him fired. It's not illegal in your home to block a web cam. The school can't say anything about it besides maybe "Please take it off" still she has the right to keep it on period.

    6. Re:How long did they spy by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      The computers were locked down to the point that students couldn't even use the cameras, much less disable them. Attempting to jailbreak your computer to get around this could result in expulsion under their rules. The kids had absolutely no power over the situation, it's ridiculous to blame them.

    7. Re:How long did they spy by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      The more I hear about this story the more insane it gets, this school should be hit a lot harder under the law.

      If there really was no way to disable the web cam then fine it's not there fault, but then the question has to come up, How screwed up is the school management to do this?

      At this point I can see no defense for the school, there is nothing they can say to rationalize this entire episode let alone explain the reason why. They can try to claim anti this, anti that, Jesus etc........ and all the reason under the sun the US likes to pull, but this is a case of being sick freaks who have no more morality or ethics then any other criminal who just wants a peep show through there chosen type of window.

  38. The Real Issue by MuChild · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As someone pointed out on another site, there are two big problems with the school's position:

    1.) Just because they told the kids that they might activate the web cam to find it doesn't give them the right to do so. If the activity is illegal, telling someone you are going to do it beforehand doesn't make it legal. IANAL, but this one sounds pretty shaky.

    2.)Even if they had the legitimate authority to use the web cam, once they realized that the laptop was in the hands of the right person, they would have been legally obliged to stop spying. Any information they gleaned from that spying would have been inadmissible in court.

    From the posting at that link it looks like the school is on a serious freakout powertrip. Requiring the students to have one of these computers, requiring them to use them to the exclusion of all others and then spying on them periodically even if there was no report of the laptop being stolen.

    The school board and school administration of that town should be burned to the ground with metaphorical salt sown in their professional fields.

    1. Re:The Real Issue by pclminion · · Score: 1

      1.) Just because they told the kids that they might activate the web cam to find it doesn't give them the right to do so. If the activity is illegal, telling someone you are going to do it beforehand doesn't make it legal. IANAL, but this one sounds pretty shaky.

      It's funny how so many people just can't seem to grasp this. Some people try to argue that because the computer was school property, the school can therefore do what they want with it. To those people I say, this gun is my property, I should be able to shoot you with it. Some other people argue that the Acceptable Use Policy clearly spelled out what the computers might be used for (let's disregard for a moment that the agreements SAID NO SUCH THING) -- to those people I say, please sign this contract stating I can rape you -- once it's on paper it is therefore legal, right?

    2. Re:The Real Issue by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

      On point 1, you're quite correct (IAAL). Giving notice of your intent to perform an illegal action upon you does not make the action legal. So, when I tell you I'm going to park a 38 in your brain because my cousin Vinnie paid me 5 large to do it, I still will be tried for murder even though I was kind enough to give you notice of my action. The responsible school district personnel should do serious time for this.

    3. Re:The Real Issue by MuChild · · Score: 1

      I am glad to hear a lawyer say that these buffoons should be smacked for this.

      Their whole policy, requiring students to use only the school's computers, not allowing them to access or disable the webcams, makes no sense to me. It smells like someone trying to limit their liability, you know? Like trying they are terrified of what these students might do with these computers. Sex-picture viewing, president threatening, etc, but not in a rational risk-management way. It feels more like a witch-hunt.

      Why is our culture ever more terrified of our teenagers?

  39. Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Black+Gold+Alchemist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why? because most school administrators love overstepping their authority, and being jerks. One the things they have been trying to do is prevent students from eating "junk-food", so given their nature, they would like to try to prevent this at home. At some local schools, they ripped out all the good food and replaced it with "organic" crud. No one ate it, and all just rotted - so they were forced to go back to the "junk-food". School administrators have no checks and balances on their authority, and behave as one would expect. It's a window into what would happen if there were no checks and balances on the president (no supreme court, senate, house, etc.). It should also be noted that some students are actually sick, or were actually sick (me), and needed to pop prescription drugs, including commonly abused ones. I don't want to know what that's like in normal school.

    Glad I'm a homeschooler.

    --
    Responsibility is an addiction
    Virtue is a temptation
    Community is a cartel
    1. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The students that actually need to take medication are required to keep a supply of medication in the school office, and travel unescorted from classroom to office every time they need to take it. My daughter has an albuterol inhaler for asthma, and is not allowed to keep it with her in the classroom; instead she must travel to the other end of the school to use it, and is then disciplined if she takes too long to get back to the classroom, or heaven forbid stops to use the restroom on the way back (yes, she was actually written up for using the restroom on the way back from the office.)

      Yes, you're much better off being homeschooled (my kids sisters were, and they came out great). Unfortunately, most families have all parents working, so that option is not available to them. Consider yourself lucky that you have a parent that can afford to spend that kind of time with you.

      School administrators have no checks and balances on their authority, and behave as one would expect. Amen to that... I complained that a teacher was discriminating against my daughter, and pointed out the specific statute that were violating. They responded by slapping me with a restraining order barring me from school grounds and lying about what was actually going on in the classroom (they have admitted verbally, but not in writing, that they were in fact lying). Then, a few weeks later, they ceased the unlawful behavior they had previously claimed was perfectly legal.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Black+Gold+Alchemist · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're much better off being homeschooled (my kids sisters were, and they came out great). Unfortunately, most families have all parents working, so that option is not available to them. Consider yourself lucky that you have a parent that can afford to spend that kind of time with you.

      Very lucky. Very very lucky indeed. Although my parents have mentioned that it required less time when all the nonsense was taken into account. You see, most time in school is wasted - moving from classroom to classroom, in PE "class", in recess, while the teacher battles idiots, etc. I am lucky that my parents have jobs that have very flexible hours.

      I complained that a teacher was discriminating against my daughter, and pointed out the specific statute that were violating.

      Kudos for standing up to these criminals. It's a shame they could not be sued to hell. School is a window into a third-world dictatorship. People wonder why kids behave badly - this is where they get it from. Anyway, sorry about your daughter's condition.

      --
      Responsibility is an addiction
      Virtue is a temptation
      Community is a cartel
    3. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The drug policy makes a lot of sense. Kids will pass around inhalers, pills,etc, and they will get abused, someone might even get hurt. Maintenance medication should be kept under lock and key by a responsible adult. Emergency medication (epi-pens, rescue inhalers, etc.) should be kept by the teacher.

      It sounds like what you've got is a mixture of common sense drug policy with draconian hall pass policies. (either that or your daughter really was dawdling)

      It also sounds like you seriously overreacted - probably shouting and threatening - and they in turn over reacted by filing a restraining order.

    4. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      My exact words were "Discrimination is illegal. Stop it." Unfortunately, this was uttered in front of the school's office staff, which obviously embarrassed the principal. I have never threatened anyone.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    5. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by rainmaestro · · Score: 1

      Emergency medication (epi-pens, rescue inhalers, etc.) should be kept by the teacher.

      I stopped having class in one room in the third grade. How can "the" teacher hold the emergency meds when the student has ten different teachers spread across four different buildings in a given week?

      Emergency meds belong with the kid who will die without them.

    6. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Albuterol is a rescue inhaler, not a maintenance medication. Yes, she could die if she doesn't get it in time. The teacher could be replaced at any time by a substitute with no clue where anything is in the classroom, so they are clearly not suitable for holding medication. My daughter is considered competent enough to keep her glasses, lunch, and water in her backpack, but not her inhaler. In every other setting, she is responsible for her own inhaler -- her athletic coaches don't require a third party to hold her inhaler, and it is much more likely to be necessary during exercise.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    7. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by sabs · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry that Drug policy is not sensible.
      When I was in school we had no such stupidity, and we could bring forks with our lunches.

      Zero Tolerance policies are stupid.
      Kids passing around inhalers? Really? Most kids know NOT to do that kind of stupidity if you raise them right.

    8. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      No offense, but if you got a restraining order for that, you either did something far in excess of what you posted above, or you need to acquire the services who completed at least their second year of law school. It's not as though the school can arbitrarily hand those out... it's (presumably) public property, so they can't even use trespass laws. Either way, you screwed up pretty royally, managing to get yourself forbidden from the school your daughter attends.

      This is not to say that I disagree with the general gist of your post, but the extremism of the last part kind of overshadows the whole message. Either include enough detail to show that something actually happened which was both illegal and not your fault, or leave off the bit about the restraining order.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    9. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Black+Gold+Alchemist · · Score: 1

      It also sounds like you seriously overreacted - probably shouting and threatening - and they in turn over reacted by filing a restraining order.

      That kind of behavior is typical of anyone who does not have any checks and balances on their authority. Unfortunately, many apologists will blame the victim. School is a window into a third-world dictatorship.

      --
      Responsibility is an addiction
      Virtue is a temptation
      Community is a cartel
    10. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      From what I've heard, they pretty much hand them out to anyone who asks for one. Best not to presume too much when you don't actually know the facts.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    11. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by cusco · · Score: 1

      Graduated high school in '79, and carried a pocket knife every day after my dad bought my my first one for my eighth birthday. Recently a grade school kid was EXPELLED for DRAWING a knife on a piece of paper. If we had kids they'd probably be home schooled, since adequate resources (including socialization projects) exist now.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    12. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Legally, a school is NOT public property (try entering a school playground without permission sometime). By Oregon State law, a principal CAN arbitrarily bar someone from school grounds, just on the basis of not liking them. This restraining order blatantly violates the written policies of the Portland Public School District, but this occurred in the Beaverton School District, which has no defined policy and no appeal process -- in other words, they can do anything they want.

      I have at no time threatened anyone (except with legal action) or violated any stated rule of the Beaverton school district. What I have done is strongly criticized district personnel (mostly in email), and in accusing them of discrimination, I actually had the audacity to raise my voice... once. You are severely underestimating just how petty and dickish a minor bureaucrat can actually be.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    13. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      It depends on the state, but in most states, yes, anyone can get a Criminal Trespass Restraining Order. In the case of schools in Oregon, the person in charge of the facility can issue them themselves -- no law enforcement or judicial oversight is involved.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    14. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Kids have a fingernail clippers confiscated as "weapons". My daughter had her pencil confiscated on the bus because it was "dangerous"... and yet the same bus driver had no problem with an older boy threatening her with fingernail clippers right in front of her, and did nothing about it. The problem with "zero tolerance" is it is only enforced against people you don't like in the first place.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    15. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by russotto · · Score: 1

      No offense, but if you got a restraining order for that, you either did something far in excess of what you posted above, or you need to acquire the services who completed at least their second year of law school. It's not as though the school can arbitrarily hand those out...

      Maybe not, but some judges issue temporary restraining orders, ex parte, at the drop of a hat, on only the word of the aggrieved party.

    16. Re:Mike And Ikes == Bad Behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably a temporary ordering pending a full hearing.

  40. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not true. A lot of them do. They just happen to be legal with a valid prescription.

  41. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

    Apparently you've never seen any Mike and Ikes, they look about as much like prescription medications as hotwheel cars look like real cars.

    Also, apparently you don't know what it was like being a kid in the 2000's. If you think kids these days are not doing as hard or harder drugs than kids in the 60s and 70s then you are sorely mistaken. Half of the crap in public schools didn't even exist back then.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  42. Better Yet by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Not one of these students installed Linux on it lol

  43. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We had a teacher who once said something like that in school back in the 80's. So we figured he'd be able to handle some really heavy shit. One tab of blotter in his soda and we ended up not seeing him back at school for a week and a half.

  44. Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by denzacar · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the link above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec

    Basically, all laptops were set to switch to "stolen mode" as soon as they get online from anywhere outside the school['s network].
    And then they start sending screenshots, camera shots and DNS and IP info on regular basis.

    Apparently, their IT God thought nothing about setting up the laptops kids will be taking home so their home network is considered safe.
    Also, their School's Resident High Inquisitor thought that since the "stolen mode" is on, that means that spying on kids is fair game.

    Brilliant examples of stupidity. Simply brilliant.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by Inda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He said they recovered two presumably stolen laptops from within a classroom. He also said the 'heartbeat' only worked outside the LAN.

      Double-plus unpossible?

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    2. Re:Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      He said they recovered two presumably stolen laptops from within a classroom. He also said the 'heartbeat' only worked outside the LAN. Double-plus unpossible?

      If they came up with a DHCP failure, were plugged in, then a heartbeat was queued just before the machine got a good DHCP address, it might send a "Hey, I'm at 169.foo, here's a picture"

    3. Re:Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FBI ought to confiscate all school administrators, IT staff computers and perform forensic work on the hard drives and then we'll see whats really going on here.

    4. Re:Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      And, remember folks! Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    5. Re:Not sure if I should laugh or cry... by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      The heartbeat is for the automated passive surveillance, the classroom recovery would have used active surveillance. Perfectly doubleplusgood.

  45. Chain of evidence by cs668 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even if a person were crazy enough to think it was alright to secretly spy on people and then start some sort of punitive process I can't imagine someone taking screenshots really provides any real chain of custody/evidence to keep it admissible.

    Hmmm, let me bust out photoshop or the Gimp, next thing you know your screwing a goat on your desk.

    Real video surveillance systems have to have measures to make sure the evidence has not been tampered with.

    1. Re:Chain of evidence by nedlohs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a school not a court.

      "I think he did it" is good enough in that environment.

    2. Re:Chain of evidence by vlm · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, let me bust out photoshop or the Gimp, next thing you know your screwing a goat on your desk.

      You're missing the truly fun part, which is inserting "interesting" images into the stream, then letting them use the legal system to entrap and destroy themselves.

      This could be extremely profitable... Makes me wish I was still in school...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Chain of evidence by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are no "rules of evidence" in a school setting. My daughter was moved to a different table during lunch because another student misheard something she said and complained. Sure, kids lie all the time... but so do teachers.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    4. Re:Chain of evidence by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      Until they get sued. Despite some true jackass justices, they fairly recently reaffirmed that the school administrators did not get to be their own little tyrants.

      Their self-assigned power needs to be much further curtailed, but it clearly does not extend this far.

      They will be squashed like the bugs they are. Good riddance. I'm still not convinced a couple of sweaty guys weren't jacking off over the 14-year-old cheerleader putting on her uniform. In fact, I'd put money on it.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    5. Re:Chain of evidence by TheSync · · Score: 1

      There are no "rules of evidence" in a school setting.

      This is not quite true. If a government is running a school, the government must not impinge on student rights. There are thousands of court cases every year regarding these kinds of issues. Jurisprudence shows a careful and often changing balance between student rights and allowing a school to function.

      Which, in itself, is an argument for privatizing schools....

    6. Re:Chain of evidence by cxx · · Score: 1

      If a government is running a school, the government must not impinge on student rights.

      Just because the rules still apply doesn't mean that they are followed.

    7. Re:Chain of evidence by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      It is a pity that the family involved filed a lawsuit first. Rather than going to the FBI and explaining their concern and how their son changed in his room while the laptop was running on his desk every day and probably lots of other kids do too. And that they are concerned pedophiles might be watching.

      Sure they'll probably do nothing (or not have enough grounds to do anything), but give them a week to hopefully get a warrant and grab the server to search before announcing to the people who might be doing so that they should delete everything ASAP by filing a lawsuit.

  46. destroy all semblence of western liberal democracy by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    in order to bring about the glorious christian theocracy of north america:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html

    of course, jesus' greatest message was tolerance. yet his most vocal advocates today only seem to advance the cause of "christianity" by extending the bounds of intolerance

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  47. Or the school could call INTERPOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, they have diplomatic immunity.

    1. Re:Or the school could call INTERPOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Diplomatic immunity didn't help that SA guy in Lethal Weapon 2. Murtaugh shot his ass.

  48. Anybody else craving Mike and Ikes now? by galadriel · · Score: 2, Funny

    There has to be a way for Mike and Ikes to prybar this into an ad campaign.

    1. Re:Anybody else craving Mike and Ikes now? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      They don't have to lift a finger, and if they did, they'd get accused of nefarious purposes. All they have to do is sit back and watch while high school kids everywhere rush out to buy Mike and Ikes so they can make Youtube videos. They won't even mention it in their SEC filings. They'll just have an unusually good quarter this year.

      You can't buy publicity that good.

  49. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Conchobair · · Score: 1

    Or raves in which a lot of time, candy is used as a delivery device. LSD lolipops, shroom pudding, "magic" brownies. nomnomnomnomnomnom

  50. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    If you think kids these days are not doing as hard or harder drugs than kids in the 60s and 70s then you are sorely mistaken. Half of the crap in public schools didn't even exist back then.

    I just knew graduating from high school was a bad idea.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  51. Not quite... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    At the beginning of the video he mentions that you can "give control to the certain amount of people who can turn the feature on and off".
    So, it goes on automatically once it is outside of the network, BUT you can turn it on/off manually whenever you want while it is still connected to the home network.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  52. Treason. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The asshats that thought this was a good / acceptable use of the equipment in question should be publicly executed for treason.

    No, I am not joking.

    And everyone involved in the warrant-less wiretapping should be right beside them. EVERYONE.

    It's about time we, as a public, institute a zero-tolerance policy of our own and start defending our rights as citizens of a "free" (har har!) country.

    These people deserve nothing less than a slow, painful, public hanging.

    1. Re:Treason. by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      but we like it when the government takes care of us and protects us from the terrorists.

      USA! USA!

  53. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    dosing someone with LSD is one of the most fucked things you can do (despite the fact that it was one of the CIA's favorite pastimes for a while).
    Congrats on being a big fucking asshole with your asshole friends.

  54. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by cyber-dragon.net · · Score: 1

    Nice :)

  55. webcam light? by catbertscousin · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Don't most laptops these days have a little light that indicates when the webcam is active? Did none of the students notice that?

    --
    No good deed goes unpunished. - Avon, Blake's 7
    1. Re:webcam light? by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, apparently some students DID notice the webcam light coming on at odd times while using the laptop at home, and were told it was just a computer malfunction, nothing to worry about!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:webcam light? by ThatGuyJon · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes they did notice that. When they reported it, they were told it was a malfunction.

      --
      I must be new here...
    3. Re:webcam light? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Apparently they did notice it. When they reported it to the school to ask about it they were told that it was just a glitch that some of that model laptop have (the webcam light flashing even when the webcam is not active).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:webcam light? by catbertscousin · · Score: 1

      Man. That's really dirty, I hope they get the book thrown at them good and hard.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished. - Avon, Blake's 7
  56. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by houghi · · Score: 1

    If you remember the 60s or 70s you weren't really there.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  57. not of interest what the kid did by molecular · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand why we're even talking about what the kid did or did not do at his home.

    School officials have no fucking business sniffing around in other peoples houses. This is just outrageously wrong and illegal. Even if he was taking drugs, the video should not be accepted by any court as prove. Not even the police is allowed to film you in your own home without previous reason.

    1. Re:not of interest what the kid did by cxx · · Score: 1

      We talk about it for two reasons:

      1) Its one of the few things that we may or may not have details about
      2) It makes the school look that much more ridiculous.

  58. so what.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm trippin' on carrots and celery right now, and my boss doesn't even realize it!

  59. Taking drugs is no reason to ruin someone's life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm growing more and more tired of this country's retarded drug laws. Since when should it be ANYONE's business what someone chooses to put into their own body? It's not as if it's doing other people any harm.

    The only reason there's a culture of crime surrounding these substances is the same reason for the culture of crime surrounding alcohol during the prohibition, i.e. the inability for anyone to acquire the drug legally or reliably. The laws themselves are the cause of the very phenomena lawyers use to justify their existence.

  60. OMG This is better than fiction. by stevegee58 · · Score: 1

    And it's way more interesting that Tiger Woods LOL.

  61. SEE I TOLD YOU WE NEED ANARCHY by l0l0_ph0r3v3r · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Anarchy or big brother? I choose the former. Anarchy is the REAL democracy, and the only solution for the U.S.A. (the second best solution is National Socialism, the ideal form of socialism) And for those who think I am a Xth-grade-level kid, I am a PhD student in Computer Science from University of Chicago, more educated that most /. dumbass. And when shit happens in this country? I will be the first one to jump on the plane and go back to India.

    1. Re:SEE I TOLD YOU WE NEED ANARCHY by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      No, you're not going anywhere. I just built a cage, and I'm putting you in it. Oh, and I'll take all your food, money, and house while I'm at it. And you're girlfriend, she's hot. I think I'll rape her - why should I care what she thinks about it?

      Now what are you going to do?

      --

      Look, shit like this sucks. It's terrible, but the courts look ready to lay down the smackdown. But only a fool would suggest anarchy. I don't care about your 'credentials', you sound like you're 12. And I might humbly suggest that education is different than intelligence and wisdom, which is what's at issue here.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  62. Mormons ring a bell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mormons ring a bell? How about the widespread prosetylizing of Africa by Christian Missionaries? Not knocking at the door yet?

    1. Re:Mormons ring a bell? by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      You are making a mistake in thinking that anyone who says "I'm a Christian group" believes the same way. There are "Christian" groups who don't even believe Christ was God. Mormons believe significantly different in the area of theology.

      You're basically making the same mistake I would be if I insinuated that all Democrats support abortion. It's simply not true. Just because one or even a group or even a LARGE group does simply does not mean they all do.

    2. Re:Mormons ring a bell? by martinX · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mormons ring a bell?

      Bell's broken. They knock.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    3. Re:Mormons ring a bell? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      I had a couple of sharply dressed young Mormon men come calling when I was still living at my mom's place in my last year of college. I answered the door in my pajamas, and had a good long conversation with them. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I converted them to Buddhism. It was one of the more surreal experiences I've had.

    4. Re:Mormons ring a bell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience, those kids don't really know WHAT they believe because they've never actually given the matter any serious and rational thought.

      I've sat down with several of them over the years. Some of them looked pretty shaken up when they left. One left in quiet tears, one ended up condemning me to hell. Simple questions are very powerful if you don't let them weasel out of it. I expect most of them tried their best to forget anything I said, though.

    5. Re:Mormons ring a bell? by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Although I consider it extremely rude and anti-social behavior, it's not fair to construe prosthelytizing as "forcing". It's more like "asking nicely", or perhaps "asking in a pushy sort of way".

      In the past, there was lots of "forcing" religion on others, but the only group that I can think of doing that today is the extremist Muslims, whose explicit stated goal is a unified worldwide Muslim state, having killed all nonbelievers. That's bad news for everyone.

      Sure, I'd love it if evangelical religions shriveled up and blew away like so much dust, but anyone who comes to your door will leave if you smile and say you aren't interested. Or, if you curse at them and tell them to GTFO your property.

  63. Amendment IV by Akita24 · · Score: 1

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." What part of "I don't give a fuck if it was reported (I'm still not sure it was from what's been reported) stolen, you still don't have the right to spy on me in my home" did they miss? If you think it's stolen and you think you have evidence that it's in my posession, then you get to go to the police and if they agree they can talk to a judge about a search warrant. If the judge agrees, they get one.

  64. Well, to play devils advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, to play devils advocate, it could be that the kid isn't eating candy-looking drugs and he was being spied upon without due process because one of the teachers is a perv.

  65. Child Pr0n by kenp2002 · · Score: 1

    Did everyone miss the fact they sent the videos apaprently to a third party for a review of content? So if there is anything that could be considered pr0n do they SOBs go to jail for distribution of child pr0n or is this yet another government agency above the law?

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  66. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently you don't know what it was like being a kid in the 80s and 90s. You clearly were not part of the crowd who 'did drugs in school', thats probably a good thing, just stop pretending to know what goes on with the kids who do.

    Son, I did more drugs in high school than you've probably ever read about on Wikipedia, and I completely agree with the OP. Mike & Ike's look nothing like any drug I've ever seen in my life. When was the last time you came across a neon red Ritalin?

    I think you'd be pretty damn surprised if I wasn't posting anon. "What? Him? No way!"

  67. Mike and Ike, Dangerous Gateway Drugs.... by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

    I hear kids that start on Mike and Ike usually graduate to more powerful drugs like Hot Tamales which legends says are imported via Mexican confectionery cartels.

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  68. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by aristotle-dude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    in order to bring about the glorious christian theocracy of north america:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html

    of course, jesus' greatest message was tolerance. yet his most vocal advocates today only seem to advance the cause of "christianity" by extending the bounds of intolerance

    I don't think you understand what tolerance is. If you think Jesus' message was about tolerance, then completely missed his point. Tolerance implies looking down on other people, put up with their flaws and feel sorry for them. Jesus' message called for Christians to not look down on the world but rather to love unconditionally. Loving does not mean that you have to accept the negative behavior of others while accepting the people themselves. This emulates how Jesus embraced a group of 12 flawed human beings and made them his disciples.

    Christians are called to change the world and right wrongs rather than just sit there smugly "tolerating" others.

    Tolerance is the lazy man's way because you are not helping others reach their true potential.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  69. You guys are missing 1/2 the story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The school has some laptops which are not to be removed from school property. When the reporter asked the kid's family if he was authorized to remove the laptop in question from school grounds, they refused to answer. Technically, the system worked. They were missing a laptop and activated the remote viewing mechanism to determine who might have the laptop. Turns out that the kid was eating Mike and Ikes at the time. Doesn't justify him removing property from the school without authorization.

  70. Mod Parent Up insightful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the best post I seen in /. for ages!

  71. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by shermo · · Score: 1

    It still is, for sugar.

    Or so the simpsons told me.

    --
    Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
  72. That works... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    ...about as well as abstinence-only sex education. Look up some statistics, and you might revise your definition of "most folks".

    As for safety, that very much depends. Caffeine could be extremely dangerous, given a high enough concentration, yet it's legal for anyone. Alcohol is dangerous if you drink and drive, but it's legal above a certain age, certainly once they realize that trying to ban it was causing more harm than the substance itself. Contrast to marijuana...

    Or better yet, try Coca. That's right, the main ingredient for Cocaine, illegal to possess in the US, but Coca leaves make very good tea, and at that concentration, it's a mild stimulant -- less stimulating and less addicting than coffee, but very good for dealing with high altitudes.

    Or you could just take the kneejerk reaction of "All drugs are bad!" or maybe "All illegal drugs are bad!" Which makes you sound about as intelligent and informed as "Fire bad!"

    In fact, let's take this to an extreme. Suppose we actually legalized marijuana. Would you rather your kid be buying the stuff at the store, in regulated doses with the THC content explicitly labeled? Or would you rather them buy it from a drug dealer, laced with who knows what, in much higher concentrations?

    I'd say, legalize it all, regulate it, and tax it. It's going to happen whether you allow it or not, and the societal costs of prohibition are much higher than the drugs themselves.

    By the way: I don't drink, or do drugs, aside from caffeine. I never have, aside from coca tea, and I likely never will.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:That works... by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Alcohol is dangerous if you drink and drive, but it's legal above a certain age, certainly once they realize that trying to ban it was causing more harm than the substance itself. Contrast to marijuana...

      Agreed. When the laws surrounding a substance are more harmful than the substance itself (marijuana being the current best example), there is a serious problem.

    2. Re:That works... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Alcohol is dangerous if you drink and drive

      You don't have to drive for alcohol to be dangerous. More people die from alcohol overdose than overdoses of all other drugs combined.

    3. Re:That works... by dem0n1 · · Score: 1

      Our bodies are just sacks filled with small drug manufacturing plants. *Everyone* does mood altering substances.Some feel the need to provide the body with more than their own bodies produce due to lack of production capacity, low receptor count, or just because.

      --
      Why save your soul when you can sell it for a profit?
  73. Let's give out netbooks to.. by Paracelcus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Particularly buxom co-eds so we can post their pictures on the Usenet.

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  74. Candy by KneelBeforeZod · · Score: 1

    "My God, he's popping those pills like candy!"

    What kind of kid pops the fun pills while at a public school library?

  75. Child Pornography Laws by Khomar · · Score: 1, Interesting

    One item I have not seen raised is possible infringement of child pornography laws. Is it that uncommon for a laptop to be running while someone is undressing in their bedroom. Should the staff of the school download pictures taken during that time, would that not make them guilty of possessing child pornography? I wonder if it has already happened.

    The whole thing reeks of multiple privacy infringements. It is especially bad because the school made ownership of these laptops mandatory.

    Yet one more reason why my boys are going to be home-schooled.

    --

    I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!

    1. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      But then how are they going to get the proper socialization that comes from the creepy vice principal watching them undress?

    2. Re:Child Pornography Laws by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      This has, in fact, been raised many times, and is even in the text of the original complaint as a possible contingency. I think the fear is alleging too much wrongdoing without the facts.

    3. Re:Child Pornography Laws by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      The cynical side of me sees the children or maybe the parents being guilty of producing the stuff, given that they were the ones who did the direct actions that lead to the pictures being produced. I can just imagine a judge saying that not knowing someone was taking pictures in no excuse.

      I'm far too cynical for a 25 year old.

    4. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *cough cough*

      No matter what the kid was or was not doing in the privacy of HIS OWN HOME, legal or not, it is HIS BUSINESS, and the business of his family. Unless a judge granted a warrant to keep the kids under surveillance 24/7 the school is 100% in the wrong. No matter how crazy kids get, if they are behind closed doors, they are good to go. Believe me - my boys did some wild crap when they were younger. Actually - they still do, sadly.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    5. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1

      No. Kiddy porn laws make the recipient of the pictures the criminal, not the kids in the pictures. This isn't like prostitution laws where the hooker is usually jailed, and the John may get a bye.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    6. Re:Child Pornography Laws by david@ecsd.com · · Score: 1

      Believe me - my boys did some wild crap when they were younger. Actually - they still do, sadly.

      Maybe if they had a caring school administrator to spy on them, they wouldn't have turned out to be such ruffians.

    7. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. Spying school administrators instilling fear and paranoia, or a caring father who pretended not to see some of the crazier stuff his kids did? Tough decision. Paranoid sons who are afraid to go out, or to say anything, or smart alec punks who DO go out and speak their minds? That's a really tough decision.

      I have a hard time justifying anything this Orwellian, no matter what spin someone puts on it. Caring school administrators? Tell me, exactly what it is that the administrator "cares" about? Let's keep in mind, there are good administrators, and there are bad. The best administrators will have the child's best interest in the forefront of his mind at all times. The worst administrators will only think about how he can USE the kid to further his own career. He'll be perfectly willing to throw several dozen kids under a bus, if those actions can be shown in a light that HIS bosses like.

      Doesn't that sound like what happened here? Some knuckleheaded kid staged getting high, for the benefit of the camera, and that "caring administrator" fell all over himself bringing swift punishment to the kid.

      With buffoons like this as an example, we certainly don't need any more "caring administrators".

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just got *whoosh!*d by an AC! How's it feel!

    9. Re:Child Pornography Laws by brouski · · Score: 1

      Tell that to these girls (in Pennsylvania, no less): http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/aclu-sues-da-ov/

      Your average jackass D.A. will prosecute anyone for anything.

      --
      Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
    10. Re:Child Pornography Laws by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1

      In that case (as stupid as it is), they knew that they were making the pictures. In this cases, the pictures are being taken without their permission or knowledge. That difference known as Mens Rea, and is a necessary element for someone to be convicted of a crime.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  76. Even if it WAS drugs, it still doesn't matter by moxley · · Score: 1

    Even if the kid was shoving heroin suppositories up his ass, it wouldn't make a difference.

    Aside from the serious issue of surruptitiously spying on a minor, it's not the school's job or mandate to watch what kids do in the privacy of their home, legal, illegal, or indifferent. They have no right, and if this were evidence in a trial it would be rejected.

    I am well aware of what the school CLAIMS the software is there for, in fact, they likely are telling the truth - regardless of that though, the fact is that the information on how to control the cam was either abused or not properly secured. Anybody with a brain knows that people have voyeuristic tendencies, especially when teenagers are involved.

  77. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not true.

    Pills are most definitely illegal if you are carrying them around on you without a script and YOUR name isn't on the bottle. If you have pills that are not contained in a pill bottle WITH a prescription label on the bottle... then that is considered illegal. This becomes especially true when carrying pills that people are known to abuse. It's not like the "Oh, I forgot my license at home" trick... they will arrest you for having loose pills on you.

  78. Not sure of the facts by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    I've read the various articles and one thing that struck me is that no one questions the assumption that the assistant principal pulled up the student's webcam even though the school district claims he didn't and couldn't have. Couldn't one of the kid's friends have snapped a picture during a web chat or with their own illicit software and then given a copy to the assistant principal?

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  79. Doesn't add up by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    There's something we're not being told here.

    It seems unlikely that the school would have the ability to spy on people like this. It's ludicrous to think that they would. Teachers have better things to do with their time than watch hundreds of kids who might be doing something wrong, and they'd have to be complete idiots not to realise the potential for child porn allegations.

    The complaints are all from the plaintiffs who may be making completely unwarranted assumptions. These are just complaints. Not findings of fact.

  80. Stolen? oh really by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

    If the laptop was stolen, where is they police report?

    I could understand it not being reported as stolen; if they were just going to write it off. But since they were taking the effort to track it down, they must have been a police report filed.

    In addition why was the student not busted really hard for making a false claim of the laptop being stolen?

    Its sounding like they trying to cover it up. And that should be good for even more jail time for the conspirators. Wahoo!

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  81. Serious violation by Raquiellet · · Score: 1

    I can't believe that they couldn't tell tell that he was eating candy!

    --
    http://stock-background-texture.com/
  82. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Tolerance is the lazy man's way because you are not helping others reach their true potential.

    Why can't you love me the way I am, rather than trying to force me to reach what you consider to be my true potential?

  83. Network Tech describes method, says "ENJOY!" by Noren · · Score: 1

    One of the network technicians for Lower Marion School District, Mike Perbix, described a method to remotely Enable and Disable the built in iSight. He concludes this description of how to remotely use webcams with the single word, "ENJOY!".

    What, exactly, was he "ENJOY!"ing about the ability to remotely operate webcams?

    1. Re:Network Tech describes method, says "ENJOY!" by Pence128 · · Score: 1

      CP

      --
      404: sig not found.
  84. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oddly enough, most of the acid I've taken has been dripped on sweet tarts.

  85. Even so by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

    Even if the student was actually taking or selling drugs, the means still doesn't justify the end. I'd say nice try if the school officials weren't dipshits.

  86. 3 words: registered sex offender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am neither an American nor a lawyer, but my understanding is that under current U.S. law, if you are caught with sexually-themed images of e.g. teenagers, you basically get to spend the rest of your life as a "Registered Sex Offender" (even if you *are* the teenager in question). I can't imagine they just magically happened to turn on the camera just in time to capture this one image, it's got to be larger-scale than that. Bets on whether this surveillance program has caught at least one teenager "misbehaving"? If it has - who is liable? Is it the computer admin guy? The principal? The school board? Could all of the above wind up on the Registry? In jail for possession and distribution of child pornography? Any lawyers out there feel like commenting on this?

  87. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mike & Ike candy sales skyrocket...

  88. Come on, you know what's going on here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's pretty clear that the teach was trolling the web cans looking for some hot boy action. I mean seriously, what do you think this young stud was doing with his lap top in his room? Come on, you know what's going on here.

  89. way to miss "turn the other cheek" by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 1

    I'd consider 400 years enough of turn the other cheek.

    You should maybe look up what that line is in context, as it's Jesus saying "turn and offer the other cheek when struck on one", not some "lie in wait until NOBODY expects our revenge!"

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
  90. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was a kid in the 80s and 90s, and drugs were exactly what a whole other posts have already said they were. Mainly, nothing like candy, and taken in dosages nothing like candy.

  91. where are the police? by e-scetic · · Score: 1

    If the school was spying on kids in their bedrooms then they have child porn in their possession. Why aren't the police confiscating their equipment? Why isn't the FBI involved? They are probably remaining silent precisely because they know as soon as they admit to having any pics they're caught dead to rights and it'll be grounds for a search warrant.

    But if you ask me, there's already grounds for a warrant here...so what the hell is going on?

    1. Re:where are the police? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Dude, what are you talking about? The FBI *is* involved, and they have enjoined the school district to ensure they do not wipe evidence off the machines. The FBI is definitely investigating this.

    2. Re:where are the police? by galadriel · · Score: 1

      The FBI *is* involved. Even if you missed the /. post the first time around, it's one of the related links under THIS post.

  92. The software : Absolute Manage by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    This in from Computerworld:

    The company selling the software used by a Pennsylvania school district to allegedly spy on its students blasted what it called laptop theft-recovery "vigilantism" today.

    Absolute Software said it dissuades users of theft-recovery software from acting on their own. "We discourage any customer from taking theft recovery into their own hands," said Stephen Midgley, the company's head of marketing, in an interview Monday. "That's best left in the hands of professionals."

    Midgley confirmed that Lower Merion School District of Ardmore, Pa. was running Absolute Manage, formerly known as LANRev, which Absolute Software acquired last December. The suburban Philadelphia school district purchased and deployed LANRev prior to Absolute's acquisition, he said, noting that most school districts buy the software for power management features that let IT staff remotely power down systems.

    Calling LANRev a "legacy" product, Midgley also said that Absolute would ship an update in the next several weeks that will permanently disable Theft Track, the name of the feature that lets administrators switch on a laptop's camera to take photographs of a potential thief after the computer is reported stolen. "It really doesn't serve any purpose," said Midgley of Theft Track.

    All its theft-recovery software relies on a different model than the former LANRev, said Midgley. "We give no theft recovery tools to our [LoJack and Computrace] customers," he said. "The only truly proven model is a managed service model."

    To kick off the recovery of a stolen or lost laptop, customers first must file a police report -- not a requirement of LANRev -- and only then contact Absolute, which in turn tracks the location of the missing machine via its IP address when the system goes online. Absolute employs a team of former law enforcement professionals who reach out to local police, provide them with the location information and then get out of the way. Software maker blasts 'vigilantism' in Pa. school spying case

    Absolute Manage [LANRev] Automated Client Management for Mac and Windows Computers and Software

    LoJack For Laptops

    1. Re:The software : Absolute Manage by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      And they are just covering their arse. From spy-at-harrington-high

      update 2/22/2010 5:30pm

      In a strange twist, the makers of LANRev have come out with a statement saying that school network techs should never have used their software to engage in theft recovery:
      "We discourage any customer from taking theft recovery into their own hands," said Stephen Midgley, the company's head of marketing, in an interview Monday. "That's best left in the hands of professionals."

      I've watched the 50 minute screencast repeatedly, where Perbix describes his use of this feature outside of school grounds repeatedly during a conversation with Absolute Software employees. They were enthusiastic... now they're throwing LMSD under the bus? I believe this can best be described as intense PR spin. It also completely confirms what I've asserted here, that LANRev was the implant of choice for this school.

      The 50 minute screencast is of an admin at the school Mike Perbix pontificating on the virtues of his spyware, avaliable at the blog.

  93. Yet another problem solvable with Duct Tape by Xibby · · Score: 1

    I wonder how many pieces of tape have been applied to the lenses of the web cams on these laptops in light of the various news stories...

    --
    I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
  94. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which is what leads to the religious right trying to get their religion enshrined in law, which is what leads us to holy wars in the middle east. Tolerance is most certainly what is necessary when you have people of different religions which by definition are irrational and will not be changed by any amount of discussion or preaching.

  95. *You* are missing half the story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The students were allowed to take the computers home but the system was configured to take pictures when they did so regardless of whether or not it was reported stolen.

  96. Seize the schools computers!! by killfixx · · Score: 1

    If this were any other case of possible child pornography, all the computers, backups, etc... would have been seized. I can only hope they have, in this case, and are found to contain hundreds of violations.

    This is sickening.

    I more outraged and offended by the blatant violation of these student's privacy than I am by what may have been captured. Even if every single image is found to contain nothing more offensive than candy eating and television viewing, I hope the school if found guilty of child pornography.

    Especially if the PCs were a mandatory part of curriculum and not allowed to be modified in any way that would disable the webcam. Covering the webcam could be considered disabling it. And let's face it, would have been considered disabling it.

    Disgusting.

    I hope the entire school district burns for this.

    --
    "Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
  97. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

    Apparently you don't know what it was like being a kid in the 00s.

    As someone who was still in highschool (in Pennsylvania) only two years ago and who used several drugs and was friends with many people who used many drugs (including a few who have since been arrested, imprisoned, sent to mental hospitals, etc), pills aren't that popular. Sure, _some_ people do them - but even then I've never heard of anyone actually taking a pill. They crush it and snort it. It's cheaper that way. Most commonly though it's weed or cocaine or something along those lines. It's a cigarette or a powder. Or alcohol of course. Most people who used drugs while at school either snuck in alcohol or snorted the pills before getting there. And very rarely someone would either sneak out to there car to smoke or head to the bathroom to snort something.

  98. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by hierofalcon · · Score: 1

    We can. We don't expect you to reach a particular potential in order to be loved. But keep in mind that all Christians are trying to reach their potential as well and none of us have reached it yet either, so sometimes we say things that are unfortunate and none of us exhibit the kind of perfect love that Christ had for people.

    The problem is that the guidebook we follow (the Bible) says that God won't tolerate some things. He's black and white when it comes to what people do, and nobody lives a completely white life on their own. That's true for you and for me. The things that I'm not living up to my potential at may be different than yours, but they are there nonetheless. We can never be good enough, on our own, to meet His standards.

    He offers a bridge between our lives and Himself. That bridge is Jesus Christ. It's the only way to get from point A (our lives) to point B (the eternal destination of heaven). You can choose not to make that choice. But if you don't make that choice you pay the consequences. If you do, the standards that sinners will be judged against at the great white throne judgment don't go away. When you make that choice to accept Christ as Savior, He expects you to work hard to conform your life to Christ's. He doesn't expect you to fix everything at once, but He does expect you to fix those things He points out. Some of the actions that are specified higher up in the posting list are actions or life styles that He expressly forbids. Neither you nor I may understand why He has chosen to be against those things, but it isn't up to us. They're His standards.

    When it comes down to Christians commenting on these things, we typically get flamed. Do you train up your child in a vacuum of the knowledge of what is right and wrong and hope for the best? Many parents take that approach today. They take the "there are no absolutes - everything is relative approach". That isn't working out so well for society as a whole today. There is nothing relative when it comes to sin. If you are guilty of one, it is just as bad as if you were guilty of all.

    God does call on Christians to exhibit love to everyone, even when it is hard. Part of that love is trying to let people know when they are breaking God's law. Beating them over the head about any particular issue isn't the right approach, but remaining silent when the subject comes up is not the right approach either. Earthly actions have earthly consequences. Sometimes they also have eternal consequences. The point is not to beat down the actions of those who have not accepted Christ as their Savior. The point is to lead them to accept Christ. Many problems we struggle with cannot be changed without His work in our lives. Unfortunately, too many Christians address issues rather than hearts.

    You may not agree with the Bible's position on many subjects. I will freely admit that there are a tiny number of restrictions that I don't understand as well. But ultimately it isn't going to be about what you or I think. It is solely about what He thinks and whether or not you have chosen to cross the bridge of Christ to Him. If you have, He has high expectations for your behavior. If you haven't crossed that bridge, then you have no hope. You can disregard the Bible as a source of God's word. I've seen too many things in my life that are outside the natural but which do line up with the Bible to do that. Perhaps you haven't yet. If you do accept the Bible as God's word, then you have to try to live up to its expectations for you and rely on God's grace and mercy through faith to cover our sins when you fail. That may require you to make some changes in your life that you don't look on favorably. But the eternal consequences are far more important than any change you might have to make to conform to His positions on right and wrong.

  99. Which behavior? by abbynormal+brain · · Score: 1

    1. Our fixation to Mike & Ike's
    2. Spying?
    3. Or responding on Slashdot?

    --
    L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
    1. Re:Which behavior? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Take a guess.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  100. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by drinkypoo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Tolerance implies looking down on other people, put up with their flaws and feel sorry for them.

    You need to revisit the dictionary; that is the definition of condescension, not tolerance. Tolerance is where you accept that other people have the right to be or believe who or what they are or choose. Asserting that your religion is the only true one, and that your god is the only god to people who are not interested is not tolerance, no matter what name you do it in.

    Christians are called to change the world and right wrongs rather than just sit there smugly "tolerating" others.

    Jesus [allegedly] called upon his followers to do unto others as they would have done unto them. So if you welcome people trying to convert you to their faith, by all means, attempt to convert them to yours. But if you won't consider the potential validity of their religious views, it is hypocritical to both preach to them and to consider yourself a follower of the Christ.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  101. claim was made by the kid. And he might be lying by jeko · · Score: 1

    Oh, yes, the incredible unlikelihood that a boy might be eating candy instead of illicit drugs. You should never trust what a child tells you.

    You know, Jeff, I'm old and wrinkly and a Dad now, but I too was a boy once. Grown-ups like you made my life miserable. You're the villain of every Stephen King novel ever.

    On behalf of the Peter Pan Nation, Bite me, OK?

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  102. Zero Tolerance policy is to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Arrest That Girl! She's Writing On Her Desk!

    "I love my friends Abby and Faith. Lex was here 2/1/10 :)." Alexa Gonzalez penned these words on her desk with a lime-green magic marker, and then added a smiley face. She was bored, waiting for her Spanish teacher to hand back homework at the beginning of class. Shortly after her doodling, the 12-year-old was arrested.

    Alexa, a seventh grader at Junior High School 190 in Forest Hills, New York, suspected that there would be some repercussions for her actions, but she was not ready for the handcuffs and the walk across the street to the police precinct. Worse yet, she was hauled out of her classroom, hands cuffed behind her back, in full view of her teachers and of course her classmates.

    I don't know exactly how this could have happened, but I can only assume that Alexa's Spanish teacher called the principal, who decided that doodling on a desk is a criminal offense, and that an arrest needed to be made. Alexa was detained for several hours at the police precinct, and eventually allowed to leave. (I wonder what questions they asked her during the lengthy interrogation?). Although she had a stellar attendance record, she has not returned to school since. "She's been throwing up," said her mom. "The whole situation has been a nightmare."

    "We're looking at the facts," says City Education Department spokesman David Cantor. "Based on what we've seen so far, this shouldn't have happened." Police spokesman Paul Browne added, "Even when we're asked to make an arrest, common sense should prevail, and discretion used in deciding whether an arrest or handcuffs are really necessary." So, the authorities made a mistake. That's understandable, once in a while.

    But this is not an isolated case. Alexa is only the latest in a series of New York students to be arrested for a minor infraction. Possibly the most famous is 13-year-old Chelsea Fraser, arrested in 2007 for writing "Okay" on her desk at Intermediate School 201. Others include 5-year-old Dennis Rivera, who in 2008 was placed in handcuffs and sent to a psych ward after misbehaving in kindergarten, and a 12-year-old who was arrested in March 2009 for doodling on her desk at the Hunts Point School.

    Across the country, there are plenty more examples of teens and preteens being arrested for seemingly minor offences. In November 2009, a food fight at a middle school in Chicago led to the arrests of 25 students, some as young as 11, according to the Chicago Police Department. And at least 12,000 tickets were issued to tardy or truant students by Los Angeles Police Department and school security officers in 2008. The Strategy Center, a California-based civil rights group that tracks zero tolerance policies, opposes this system. "The theory is that if we fine them, then they won't be late again," says
    spokesman Manuel Criollo. "But they just end up not going to school at all."

    This is not just about zero tolerance policies gone awry. It's about wilful cruelty to young people, at the hands of the very people who are supposed to be protecting them. When did zero tolerance become zero intelligence?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance_(schools)

    These cases include students being suspended or expelled for transgressions such as possession of ibuprofen (a legal, non-prescription drug commonly used to treat menstrual cramps and headaches) with permission of the students' parents, keeping pocketknives (small utility knife) in cars, and carrying sharp tools outside of a woodshop classroom (where they are often required materials)......

    * After bringing a Cub Scouts dinner knife to school to eat his lunch, a six-year-old boy was ordered by Christina School District to attend an alternative school for students with behavioral problems for nine weeks.....
    * A third-grade girl, also in the Christina School District, was expelled for a year because her grandmother sent a birthday cake, and a knife fo

  103. The Dudes Mom ... by hduff · · Score: 1

    ... said in a CNN interview today that he was 'addicted' to Mike & Ike candy, making it just another CNN "addicted to" story.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  104. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by cusco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tell that to Rush Limbaugh. The dirtbag got caught coming back from the Dominican Republic (home of a huge child prostitute industry) with a bottle of someone else's Viagra. While on probation. Without telling his probation officer he was going out of town. Since he's a right-wing-nut nothing happened of course, but you and I would have been in jail for a long time.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  105. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by jayteedee · · Score: 1

    "Why don't you love me while I'm stealing things from you?"
    "Why don't you love me while I OD and die?"
    "Why don't you love me while I abuse my little daughter?"

    The answer is we do love you, but we aren't willing that any would get hurt or die. Just because I love my kids doesn't mean I'm going to let them make harmful and painful decisions (while young, eventually you have to turn them loose - just like you will eventually be turned "loose").

    --
    Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
  106. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tolerance implies looking down on other people, put up with their flaws and feel sorry for them

    Fuck you. Tolerance is letting me be, period. Your own fucked up superiority complex is what makes you feel sorry for people when their philosophies don't match up with your own. What you described is closer to intolerance than actual tolerance.

    Christians are called to change the world and right wrongs rather than just sit there smugly "tolerating" others.

    What if the wrong you right is already right to me? Perhaps I was just eating candies and not doing drugs but your fanaticism leads you to jump to the "help out your fellow man" conclusion and bust me at school the next day.

  107. Ugh!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Stop using "tiny URLs" on slashdot! They are pointless here, a little disrespectful of the readers because they hide the link, and a security risk. STOP! Read how to link using HTML tags, please.

    1. Re:Ugh!!!!! by More_Cowbell · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Uh, calm down and turn on the 'preview' feature for tinyurl...

      --
      Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
    2. Re:Ugh!!!!! by dotgain · · Score: 1

      No, fuck off and don't use tinyurl here.

    3. Re:Ugh!!!!! by More_Cowbell · · Score: 1

      Hey, I don't use them, I was merely suggesting a viable solution if you happen to be curious about what the link might be. If you have never tried it, the preview function shows you the full url of the site without taking you there. The hostility is a bit misplaced, don't you think?

      --
      Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
    4. Re:Ugh!!!!! by dotgain · · Score: 1

      I apologise, and admit you were only being helpful. The spirit of my post remains directed at Slashdot in general: there's no reason to avoid proper links here, if you post a tinyURL you have to accept that most people here will skip it, "preview" functionality or not.

  108. Where's the child porn scare? by HertzaHaeon · · Score: 1

    The merest hint of child porn usually puts anyone involved in a world of shit. Why doesn't spying on kids this way bring out the think-of-the-children brigade? There's plenty of opportunity to turn it into a peep show for perverted school officials.

  109. webcams with a lid by Max_W · · Score: 1

    It makes sense to produce a web-cam with a lid. A piece of paper and scotch tape could be used on older web-cams.

    For all I know a spyware soft could be installed on my PC relatively easy and someone may watch my room.

    Web-cams are getting smaller and smaller. The same about drones. Soon an artificial creature of the size of a fly will be able to fly into a room and transmit the vdeo and audio in a perfect quality, including night-vision infrared video.

    Using protective nets on windows will not help as robots similar to cockroaches may be deployed. It will be the word without secrets.

       

    1. Re:webcams with a lid by pclminion · · Score: 1

      It makes sense to produce a web-cam with a lid. A piece of paper and scotch tape could be used on older web-cams.

      While this is a wise thing, of course, it's hardly the central issue here. We shouldn't have to worry how to protect ourselves from being spied upon by authorities. They simply should not be doing it. This is kind of like saying that you can avoid being assassinated by the government by hiding in a cave. Yeah, probably, but you shouldn't have to hide in a cave your entire life.

    2. Re:webcams with a lid by Max_W · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      I would also add that government consists of people. Even if rules are OK some people can be corrupted.

      I am not so afraid of a government as a whole, I tend to be afraid of a low-level low-paid government official, but who may have an access to a firearm and an eavesdropping device, and happened to be corrupted.

      This is the thing to worry about by my opinion.

    3. Re:webcams with a lid by cusco · · Score: 1

      "Soon an artificial creature of the size of a fly will be able to fly into a room and transmit the vdeo and audio in a perfect quality, including night-vision infrared video."

      They're currently the size of a cockroach, and walk like one. Battery life is holding back development, but wireless power transmission may overcome that.

      It's probably even worse than you imagine. I can imagine quite a lot, and am pretty much tuned into the security industry, but periodically something else pops up that scares the crap out of me yet again.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    4. Re:webcams with a lid by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1

      It makes sense to produce a web-cam with a lid. A piece of paper and scotch tape could be used on older web-cams.

      A lid on the webcam would defeat theoriginal stated excuse for having this setup (figuring out who has a stolen web-cam). That having been said, there was a long-time-ago article about Flash apps being able to turn on a web cam without user intervention (a 'feature' which then, apparently, had fail-safes added to it). ... but any (pre)installed binary will be able to do this without such failsafes.

      so the long answer is that lids on web-cams are a good failsafe to have on any such device even though they would have defeated the stated intent of this (clearly illegal) spying program. Hardware disables on built-in microphones would also be a good privacy guard.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  110. what? you don't like the simple obvious meaning of "tolerance" because you've perceived that secular humanists have "coopted" it?

    face it: you've just declared moral and philosophical bankruptcy with that delusional wordplay

    sorry cretin, but redefining tolerance as intolerance does not win your argument. but thanks for playing

    why don't you look deeply into the meaning of what it means to be a tolerant christian, and see that secular humanists embody the true spirit of jesus christ way more than small minded provincial assholes who are scared of gays, evolutionary theory, social progress, family planning, and anything else that threatens their simpleminded shallow pat understanding of the world and human nature. so they cling to the words of the holy scriptures, but completely miss the meaning

    but that's a good one, i haven't seen that tactic before, its good entertainment value: redefine tolerance as intolerance

    LOL! hilarious. stubborn ignorant denial at its best

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  111. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just for legal fun:

    One reason you don't see big carrier mediums (candy, etc) is that the weight of the candy counts when measuring how much drug there is for the purpose of determining minimum mandatory sentence

    Under 21 U.S.C. 841(b)(1)(A)(v), where there is a violation involving:
    (1)(A)(v) 10 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD);
    Such person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment which may not be less than 10 years

    The language of the statute leaves open to interpretation what exactly determines the weight of the mixture. Is it the LSD alone, or the entire mixture including the carrier medium? The U.S. Supreme Court answered this question, stating “the statute requires the weight of the carrier medium to be included when determining the appropriate sentence for trafficking in LSD.” - US v. Chapman

    -AC

  112. Re: I don't think so by colinnwn · · Score: 1

    First, I don't think there are any OTC medicines available today that you can get high on unless they are adulterated. Most prescription medications also don't allow you to get high with the exception of certain classes of pain killers and psychoactive drugs. For those classes of drugs that present a REAL abuse risk, I am on board with requiring the nurse to hold and administer until the kids are out of high school. Too many adults abuse these kinds of drugs, and the risk is too great for selling/trading/abusing.

    For the drugs that are not abuse risks, I find it totally unacceptable that school nurses must administer them after kids get out of elementary school. I think it is more liability than abuse risk that schools do this, though I still find it equally unacceptable. Kids are mature enough at that age to handle their medication requirements on their own to the extent their parents are comfortable with it. And by the time you are in high school, if you can't handle your own medication requirements, you should probably be in the school for special children who will never graduate.

    I could go through lots of reasons for this, but I will stick to 2. There are risks of medicine mistakes when a 3rd party is maintaining care, custody, control, and distribution for you. It even happens to pharmacists and doctors. I especially don't trust a school nurse to do it 100% accurately. The other reason is we infantize children in the US, and there is no good reason we do it. Children need to learn how to grow up and take care of themselves gradually. Treating them like incompetent possessions until they are 17, then throwing them out of the house to go to college or find their way isn't a reasonable way to parent. Unfortunately parents, schools, and authority figures all encourage and participate in doing exactly this.

  113. What about microphones??? by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

    Many laptops with webcams also have microphones. so you can do low-quality videoconferencing. I don't know what make/model of laptops were used by the school. But I thought I'd ask... do they also have microphones? This would greatly increase the potential for eavesdropping.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  114. Government Interest by foxylad · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dear Lower Merion School District,

    We at the US/Chinese/UK (delete as appropriate) government are impressed at the efficiency with which you are "caring" for your students. We have plans to "care" for our entire population, and would like to employ you as a consultant to aid in our efforts.

    For our glorious nation,
    Des Pott.

    --
    Do as you would be done to.
  115. Kiddie porn charges. by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Consider (again) the following, completely predictable, scenarios for pictures captured of students who think that they're in the privacy of their own bedrooms.
    • A student walking around their room Naked (straight out of the shower, changing, and/or just not worried about being seen by anybody else)
    • A student making out with their boy/girlfriend.
    • A student masturbating.
    • etc., etc., etc.

    Now, consider that you're talking about high-school students -- almost all of whom are going to be under the age of 18. All of a sudden, you're out of the realm of a simple class action lawsuit, and looking at a charges of 'Creation, Possession, and possibly even distribution, of Kiddie Porn'. . . .

    Now, that may not do much more than garner some more interesting headlines, but if you throw in counseling charges against the high-level managers who concieved of, OKed or mandated this stupid idea, I expect that anyplace where a similar plan is in place, the programs will be suddenly stopped. -- and to be honest, I'm more interested in getting this stupidity shut down now than I am in starting a witch-hunt against stupid school administrators.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    1. Re:Kiddie porn charges. by Mr.+Roadkill · · Score: 1

      ...and now that the cat is out of the bag, there will undoubtedly be students who will do all of that AND suck on a bong full of basil whenever they see the light come on. Entrap the bastards! "Let's see your evidence that I was using marijuana".

  116. Mainstream media have picked this up by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Even USA Today "Experts say school could track missing laptops less intrusively" Really?!? You don't say!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  117. Snooping in school by zrq · · Score: 1

    I think what this (different) school is doing is fantastic, and I applaud their efforts and achievements. However ... checkout what happens at 4:37 in the video.

    How Google Saved A School

    Yes, different school, and the students are in school at the time, but .... I'm not sure I like the idea of teaching kids to accept this level of surveillance as 'normal'.

  118. when the principal is the dictator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and the school becomes the court

    killings......inside.....

  119. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by perlchild · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Jesus also [allegedly] said: Do not judge others, lest you be judged by the same measure. If anything should promote tolerance it's that. However, most people seem to forget he said it.

  120. Is that even legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The school claims the system was only used to locate stolen laptops."

    Is that even legal?

  121. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by dcam · · Score: 1

    Tolerance does not mean you cannot say someone is wrong. It appears the greatest crime of intolerance these days is to accept that someone else has the right to have different beliefs (ie tolerate them), but say that they are wrong. Of course the new definition of intolerance is itself intolerant.

    --
    meh
  122. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by drinkypoo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The problem is that the guidebook we follow (the Bible) says that God won't tolerate some things.

    That's a falsehood or at best a misunderstanding. Christianity is an orthodox religion, which is to say that the only thing it tells you that you have to do to win the game is believe in something, i.e. that Jesus died for your sins, and that it makes it okay for you to be a sinner as long as you are sorry about it. It doesn't say that you have to do or not do anything in particular to be "saved".

    There is nothing relative when it comes to sin. If you are guilty of one, it is just as bad as if you were guilty of all.

    But it won't keep you out of heaven as long as you believe in Jesus. You might be a heretic and be excommunicated from one church or another for some heresy; for example, you are a heretic if you don't believe in the holy trinity. But heretics still get to be saved, even on their deathbed, if they truly accept Jesus into their hearts or whatever.

    You may not agree with the Bible's position on many subjects.

    Which bible? The earliest manuscripts known, destroyed by fires at the libraries of Alexandria? Or the current editions, repeatedly and deliberately (as well as accidentally) edited by fallible men over the course of centuries?

    If you do accept the Bible as God's word,

    Then you must be a member of a fringe sect. Because it's clear that the bible was written by men, not by God. Very little of the bible is actually presented as the direct word of god. Unless, again, you have one of these wacky "translations" that's been edited over and over again to advance various personal and political goals.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  123. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by drinkypoo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Tolerance does not mean you cannot say someone is wrong.

    No, it means accepting that they have a right to hold an opinion you believe is wrong. And religious tolerance is what permits you to hold your own religious views. If we go killing all the heretics, all that's required to get you dead is to get something you believe in declared a heresy.

    Ultimately, nobody wants to have your religious views forced upon them. You can't help people that way. This is why the best approach is to prove the validity of your views by walking your talk and making the world a better place as a result. If you can't do that, why should anyone care what you think?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  124. FBI wants the keys by DVD9 · · Score: 1

    The FBI does not want to prosecute the administrators, they want access so they can catch the kids downloading movies and send them to Federal prison. --

    --
    Why do "Al Qaeda" bulletins allegedly authored by Osama Bin Laden sound as if they were authored by Oliver North?
  125. Whose property is the Laptop, Dell or School Inc.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoever has the controlling interest determines the applicability of law and rate of execution to whomever trusts the inferiour use of that property.

    Notice how the Principal is in a privileged role of the State (parent in fact), and considers the restless duty of parenting to extend from the rolls. There are no more traditional parents, because the State claims all children to be in it's command as parent alone.

    Revolt already.

  126. All the reason to make drugs resemble candies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lots of kids being told by "cool" teachers on drugs, they'll be impressed to re-invent ways to conceal the candies to resemble drugs just to get a few false-prosecutions on the courts.

    Reminds me of when I bought my first pack of Cigarettes from the mailtruck Ice-Cream Man back in the 90's...they were bubble-gum Cigarettes that actually put a puff of powder in the air when you blew into them.

    Now the drugs will resemble candies. I'ld like to thank the wonder LOLciphers in D.A.R.E. for that wonderful exhibit of Cocaine and Marijuana glasswork brought into my class to interrupt my Christian School Teacher's math class: fine intrusions as that remind me of why this is such a great country, when Drug peddlers also dress as COPS and steal competing drug-dealers glassware just to make a point that they can do it and cary mumified drugs and periphernalie into a drug-free zone while armed and wearing body-armor.

    Society is for psychopaths hiding behind a badge.

  127. Good luck... by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    "And you're girlfriend, she's hot. I think I'll rape her..."

    Have sex with Indian girl = guaranteed AIDS

  128. Re:claim was made by the kid. And he might be lyin by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

    I'd suggest putting the glasses on "Dad" and re-read what I wrote.

    I said it doesn't matter what the kid was doing. Mike & Ikes or main-lining heroin with a dead hooker lying on his bed.

    It doesn't matter, the school was wrong and this entire line of questioning is just designed to deflect the spotlight from where it should be, on the school.

  129. MNI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There were drugs in that Mike N Ike box, I know that because nobody actually eats Mike N Ike's.

  130. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cowboy Neal?

  131. Be careful as you get older by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Most people's metabolisms change with age. I seldom drink enough to get drunk anyway, but when I was young I could do it without hangovers; these days I have to be more careful or the next morning will be painful. And caffeine can be really nasty if you start using too much of it.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Be careful as you get older by Pojut · · Score: 1

      There is a very distinct point I reach with alcohol where if I have one more shot I will go from being drunk and happy to sloppy and sick. I never ever drink past this limit, no matter how much I may want to.

      Also, I have a fool-proof system that I follow to help avoid hangovers. Every three shots or three beers, I drink a small glass of water. I also do my best to drink a glass of water before going to sleep. This keeps me sufficiently hydrated, and really helps keep hangovers at bay.

  132. It's a good thing........ by dogzdik · · Score: 0
    It's a good thing that he didn't have his hand around his cock, and was masturbating....... in his own bedroom.... just as they happened to turn the "secret spy cam on"...

    -

    Because then according to the sleazy shit heads in the schools administration, he would have been performing an indecent act - which really would have been "proper grounds" for suspension; or would that just another cover story for making their own child porn and getting sprung for it.

    -

    Arseholes.

    --

    .

    Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.

  133. apple needs to have imac / latops with out webcam by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    apple needs to have imac / latops with out webcam and if apple does not make that move then apple will have a even harder time getting in schools and corporate offices.

  134. Stupid security feature by Shresht · · Score: 1

    Okay, lesson for all you laptop thieves out there: Put a thick tape over the webcam before you turn it on. And if it's a Windows machine, you can format it, the product key is on the sticker.

  135. FBI can find proof by just watching PBS by shilly · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm stunned that no-one has mentioned the extraordinary scenes of unethical behaviour on the PBS documentary where a remote spycam feature is being used at another school in the Bronx. My jaw dropped open as I saw (at ~4m50s) the Assistant Principal spy on two schoolgirls and describe how he routinely does this with all 6th and 7th graders ("they don't even realise we're watching" -- he then takes control of the second girl's machine and takes a picture, and we see her duck out of his line of sight. His commentary as he did this had me climbing the walls, it was so unpleasant and -- hopefully -- self-incriminating: "I always like to mess with them and take a picture". What's even worse is seeing the disconcerted look on the girl's face before she ducks and listening to the interviewer laugh -- the interviewer's reaction is a perfect example of how you can get caught up in a moment and fail to maintain independence of mind. You can't be certain from the video where she is -- there's a possibility she's at home. In a beautifully ironic twist, PBS carefully blurred out some of the writing on a whiteboard at ~3m40s, presumably to protect someone's privacy! Of course, they didn't bother to blur out the name of the second schoolgirl who got spied on.

  136. Witchhunt? by xenobyte · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that catching and accusing this student has to be the result of a deliberate witchhunt - there are hundreds of students and they chose to look at this one, and 'see' drug abuse in his candy eating... They must have been out to get him and just him, just waiting for something - anything - to accuse him of.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  137. Re:webcam light? - it WAS a malfunction by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    That light was supposed to be disabled.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  138. Re:destroy all semblence of western liberal democr by Myopic · · Score: 1

    I think that's a fair way to explain it.

    And in the end, I'd say I much prefer tolerance to whatever the Christians are calling "helping others reach their true potential". That's a cute euphemism for all sorts of impolite behavior.

    So anyone who wants to help me reach my true potential can either tolerate me, because I am already the person I want to be, or they can please piss off.

  139. Re:Nothing changes but stupidity in public schools by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since he's a right-wing-nut nothing happened of course, but you and I would have been in jail for a long time.

    What are you talking about? Conservatives are always consistent in their morals and values. That's why they overwhelmingly voted for McCain over Bush in 2000, since they made it clear in 1992 how much they valued military service and despised draft dodgers. And why Mark Sanford was promptly impeached by the Republican legislature of South Carolina, as Sanford voted for Clinton's impeachment in 1998.

  140. Disabling the Webcam is trivially easy by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Black tape if you want to be professional about it, chewing gum if you want to be appropriate for a misbehaving schoolkid...

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  141. Other hypothetical cases by billstewart · · Score: 1

    The one case I can see where they might hypothetically have a case for accusing him of inappropriate behaviour is that if the laptop were being used for cracking the school's computer system, posting inappropriate material in the school's discussion sites, etc. then they might have had an excuse to turn on the camera to verify who was using it, and then they might have been able to accuse him of inappropriate behaviour. None of their business if he's smoking dope naked or eating high-fructose-corn-syrup candies that are banned from the school's vending machines, but the candy picture could be legitimate evidence if they're busting him for cracking.

    On the other hand, if their policy is really that the system is only used to locate stolen laptops, then they've either got a record that somebody said the laptop was stolen, or they don't, and if there's a record that that laptop was stolen, and if the laptop was registered to that kid, and the camera shows that kid using it, legitimate case closed, delete the picture, and anything else they do with the picture is invasion of privacy.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  142. Robot Chicken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also accepted is Admiral Ackbar: "Your tongue cannot repel flavour of that magnitude". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU-qSR0KZm4