Slashdot Mirror
Gates and MS Don't See Eye-To-Eye On CO2
Sam Machkovech writes "Bill Gates's speech at last week's TED Conference centered on 'moving to zero-carbon energy, and our need to reduce CO2 emissions 80% by 2050.' His choice of subject was an abrupt turn from The Gates Foundation's typical humanitarian topics, but he insisted that energy innovation is crucial to his Foundation's goals. A move by Microsoft today proves that Gates's old company has less interest in that carbon-neutral goal — Microsoft has begun campaigning against a bridge redesign that would result in more bus and transit options for commuters between Seattle and the company's homebase of Redmond, WA."
There's not really a conflict here. It's just an attempt to spin the story against Microsoft, for no apparent reason, since they want the bridge done as soon as possible. Read the linked article.
"moving to zero-carbon energy"
That would be the end of life as we know it. Quite literally, as a matter of fact, since we're all made of carbon.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
The changes Microsoft made to both Windows Vista and 7 have resulted in more CO2 savings that most other efforts combined. I am of course talking about the default and recommended power settings in Windows along with the "best practice" guidelines given to their corporate partners. Microsoft has also added support for power saving features to Windows ahead of what the hardware and or drivers in the market offered...
There are plenty of perfectly good reasons to oppose a bridge that may well be a bad idea to build.
Bottles.
That a guy who has practically unlimited money and a seemingly sincere desire for world improvement(some of the "educational" initiatives that basically boil down to getting 3rd world kiddies using MS Office are arguably cynical; but nobody puts money into malaria research except for philanthropic reasons) and a callously profit-maximizing corporation with stockholders to appease might not be in complete agreement. However could this be?
Tha alternative plan MS is arguing against has only two (one each way) lanes for general car use - no wonder they don't want it. Light rail and long range buses are only good if lots of people want to use them. HOV lanes are only good if people can be convinced to carpool. Apparently MS management feels the employees want to drive their own cars to work by themselves. If that's the case, making them idle in the traffic snarls created by the one general lane each way bridge will not only make everyone late to work but also really exacerbate the smog problem.
From the article:
While there are still some final design issues that need to be resolved with the City of Seattle, we should not let last-minute objections undermine the hard-won agreements already in place for the rest of the project. Doing so would cause yet more delay, increase the cost to taxpayers, and put this vital transportation and economic corridor at risk. The current bridge is 47 years old, and state engineers warn that it could sink in a major storm or earthquake.
So its not like Microsoft is against it because they love to emit Carbon Dioxide. In fact, closing the bridge for construction will cause people to go around, emitting more CO2.
Microsoft is mostly against it because it highly affects their employees in a negative way. It means more lates, or more inconvenience. Will the CO2 offset from more buses balance out the increased amount created during its upgrade? Who knows.
Bill's Ted talk was actually great. He promoted the design and development of the new Nuclear reactors that burn the 99% of uranium - essentially the old toxic waste that we have sitting around. Yeah, everyone was afraid of nuclear technology partly because of the waste produced, and with modern super computers we've simulated that we can actually burn the waste produced by regular nuclear reactors. We just need to jump on it. Bill Gates goes through how Solar power and Geo power are great alternatives but they aren't as solid, as such they will only work towards extending our deadline to meet the Carbon 0 goal.
These two events, the Ad and the Ted talk, are totally exclusive and neither are really about the other, and this isn't them butting heads. Bill Gates goes on about how the entire world needs to come together on a new project. This is one company against adding bus lanes to a bridge. Whoever lumped those two together didn't really look at the big picture.
Yeah, MS is opposing the redesign because it needs to pump CO2, obviously.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Then which side are us slashdot'ers supposed to hate?
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
First line in the article.
Microsoft took out a full-page color ad in the Seattle Times today opposing any further “delay” on replacing the SR-520 bridge
The changes Microsoft made to both Windows Vista and 7 have resulted in less CO2 wastage than most other efforts combined.
Seriously, do you even live in Seattle? Do you know what 520 bridge is like? Do you even know all the politics around this bridge redesign? No? Then, STFU!!! This bridge goes through VERY wealthy neighborhoods on both sides of the bridge. These neighborhoods have been dead set against ANY expansion of the bridge and they have been backing any and all candidates with proposals that would delay the contructions of the new bridge. These redesigns have been decades in making, while the bridge is hanging by the thread on every major windstorm. The sucker needs to get replaces ASAP. It does not matter if it is 6 lanes or 8 lanes. It needs to move forward for the good of all people living in the Puget Sound area.
Nothing in this is contradictory. Like most people, particularly those with power and wealth, he wants everyone else to do something to reduce carbon emissions while he flies around in his private jet and pumps megawatts into his electro-fortress. See also Al Gore's mansion and The Governator's private jet commute from Malibu to Sacramento. Contrast with Ed Begley Jr, who seems to practice what he preaches -- and is the exception that proves the rule.
The rich and famous are only required to appear as though they want a better future, or we would rise up and slay them. Good PR does more to protect their aristocracy than making sacrifices -- the PR is all that the serfs know of the nobles.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
What type of "vaccines and medicines" reduce population?
Troll? He wants population planet wide to stabilize and drop some for the good of all. Not ... like slaughtering africans with medicine... Bringing places to the 1st world reduces birth rates. That's a good thing... and exactly what we want to see.
I'm pretty sure Nathan still happens to have a nice damp dark spot around there.
I might say the same about people who continue to bring more than 3 consumers into a world that can't support them.
It's just an attempt to spin the story against Microsoft, for no apparent reason
Did you miss "posted by kdawson"?
Microsoft is not opposing transit. Microsoft runs a whole fleet of buses to reduce the number of cars on the road. As many comments indicate, this is about a bridge that desperately needs replacing. As someone who think Seattle is in another dimension, I wonder what Ravenna housing prices would do if 520 fails, and those Microsoft commuters move to Redmond so they can get to work.
I noticed that too. He's the typical modern elite - every problem can be solved by more control and population reduction. It's funny their M.O. is always the same - the problem is everyone else.
Why do posts like this dissapear? The Slashdot FAQ states that you can't delete a comment and neither will they delete one unless it contains malformed HTML. "We believe that discussions in Slashdot are like discussions in real life- you can't change what you say, you only can attempt to clarify by saying more."
Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
Seeing as Bill Gates no longer works at Microsoft, I doubt they see eye-to-eye at all. Nor do they need to, or we to know whether or nether they are.
I think it's pretty much a non story, and I think most agree since nearly every commenter so far hasn't bothered to RTFA and proved it with ignorant comments.
Basically Bill Gates gives a talk about the environment and says we need to burn hippies for energy (or something with nuclear power, I haven't watched the video yet) and people cheer.
Microsoft, which Bill Gates has next to nothing to do with anymore, says to the city, stop fucking around and build the bridge you have been planing since forever before the old one falls down, but because some hippies want to make last minute design changes like powering the lights with bicycles (or maybe adding more HOV lanes or something) which would mean redoing a lot of work and added years of delays, somehow makes Microsoft anti environment.
Why do you want to inconvenience people so that they'll do what you want? It's people like you that cost me an extra $1.20 for a case of soda. I don't recycle and I'm proud of it. But people like you think they can force me to act how you want simply by causing me an inconvenience. I say no. Recycling is a stupid, dirty, space wasting, time wasting activity best left to a modern trash facility. And jerks like you will laugh at me and be proud of the $1.20 you ripped me off.
Argh! I hate social engineers that make my life more inconvenient so that they can feel better about a perfect world where I act more like them.
If recycling cans made so much sense, why do I break even after all that work. All they did was hold my money ransom until I did what they wanted me to do. I know some will say that it's not too much to ask that I recycle cans. I say leave me alone and live your own life. Jeez. You're such a jerk!
He is still the largest single shareholder (8%) and a non-executive Chairman of the Board. He's still quite involved with MS.
That would be the end of life as we know it. Quite literally, as a matter of fact, since we're all made of carbon. Laughed at this so hard, very funny
I've wondered that too. I've noticed a number of disappeared posts, and from the replies and quoted bits, they never seem that bad. I'd almost suggest that if a post is removed, then all the replies should be turfed as well.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
Perhaps you would like to volunteer to help out? Shall we sterilize your children? Will you agree to only one child or we'll euthanize them? Helping out the common good. Good for you! How do you think vaccines would help reduce population? Make people healthier so that they will.. have less children. Yeah.. It's called culling the herd.
I commute across this bridge everyday and this is a stupid article. The bridge just needs to be replaced, even expanding it is stupid because there is NEVER a slow down ON the bridge, it's always before or after, not on. There's two lanes leading up to the bridge each way, not 3, not 4, putting that many on the bridge is absolutely insane. MS is right on this, get the fing bridge replaced and stock cocking about.
what the fuck is this anti microsoft bullshit doing on the front page? I know this is slashdot but for fucks sake people. CO2 emission has fuck all to do with microsoft's ad in the paper. fuck you slashdot, get your act together.
Indeed. Washington State has three major floating bridges (I90 and SR520 on Lake Washington, and SR104 on the Hood Canal*), the 520 bridge is the only one that hasn't done 'submarine duty' because of storms.** The Hood Canal bridge lost it's western half in a 1979 windstorm, and the I90 bridge lost a chunk out of the middle due to human error and heavy storms in 1990.
And the 520 bridge is old, worn out, and underdesigned.
* Incidentally, they're also the three largest floating bridges in the world.
** We get some evil windstorms around these parts.
I've never seen a post disappear into the ether.
Perhaps you should try browsing at -1, raw and uncut*? Then you'll see the posts that have been downmodded into oblivion.
Warning: not for the faint of heart. It will abuse your faith in the general goodwill and competence of mankind, if you have any.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Actually no,
I'll quote it instead.
McGinn’s proposal, which is also supported by House Speaker Frank Chopp, is to come up with a new 520 plan that would incorporate high-capacity transit (light rail or bus-rapid transit) as well as two HOV and two general-purpose lanes.
Microsoft’s loud support for the less transit-heavy 520 plan would appear to conflict with Bill Gates’ stated commitment to make reducing climate emissions
The article is correct You should be apologising for being such an abject apologist.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Maybe when things get modded negatively enough they just vanish but we already have collapsing threads for that. I'll let my post stand as a test to see if simply being off topic is enough to cause that to happen...
Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
No, I saw that, and your attempt at pro-MS trolling as well.
I browse at -1 all the time. And yet I still have hidden posts, which pisses me off. It kills the entire point of browsing at -1 to still need to un-hide posts.
But even going at -1, I've seen posts indented, with titles of "Re:", exactly like they're replying to something, but there's just... there's no parent post! Hell, the replies are even consistent in what they're quoting, so unless there's a conspiracy of some kind, I have to assume that either the posts are being removed, or there's a fairly serious bug in the code.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
Vaccines reduce the population by reducing child mortality. Part of the reason (only one of many factors) that birth rates are so high in developing countries is that there is a significant chance that children may die before the age of 5. This means that parents have more kids to offset projected losses. With good vaccines, you can have exactly the number of kids you want and be reasonably sure that they will survive to adulthood.
But please, troll harder.
This, to me, is implicit proof that global warming deniers don't actually doubt global warming, they are just advancing ideas that benefits a corporate agenda.
Bill Gates is someone who understands the need to 'stay on message', regardless of the truthiness of his facts. His performance on a deposition during the big Microsoft trial, showing obvious hostility to the questioner, but staunchly defending his company's actions, is proof that Gates practices corporate spin. Corporate PR flaks are allowed to 'testify' despite the apparent self-interest of their testimony.
Somehow, corporate Amerika has as much, or more, power than the citizens of this country.
And, Gates is a complex person.
Best regards.
Really, dude. What does MS propose to do about the 420?! Yeah, just as I thought, they're smokin' their own stuff.
McGinn’s proposal would also introduced further delays. Which is what MS is complaining about.
I'll bet they don't give a hoot one way or the other about the LRT lanes. But if that bridge goes down for even one day, no matter what it looks like, they lose millions.
The cancer that is killing slashdot or the AIDS that is killing slashdot? You decide!
How does this indicate that Microsoft isn't green?
Maybe Microsoft is simply looking at the reality: there is no incentive for people who might cross that bridge to use public transit. People who are able to afford a lengthy daily drive to work are also likely to be able to justify not sitting another 20+ minutes on a bus/train with strangers.
Also, public transit has shown to do one thing very well in the US: bring criminals from their urban homes to suburbia where they can commit crimes and then hop back on the train in time for dinner.
Upper-middle-class people do not ride on public transit unless it is very, very clean, safe, and private. (This is partially because train lines seem to typically go from urban downtown to their pleasant neighborhoods, resulting in urban scum coming out to deal drugs and expand their turf in the relatively safe 'burbs.)
Maybe Microsoft is opposed to the lengthy extensions to the bill proposing public transit because said public transit would then come out of the Redmond tax coffers.
There's probably close to a half dozen plausible reasons why MS might be opposed to this bridge, and it has nothing to do with how "Green" they are.
Why don't you call them "Reds" and have McCarthy go after them? (That's what this Green bullshit is becoming - the New McCarthyism.)
I'm going to go burn some tires.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Nope, but I'm comfortable with not having 5 children. So are most people in the first world, that is why our population isn't increasing at a horrific pace. When Africa reaches 1st world status they too will likely feel less obliged to have 5 children. Over time the planets population will slow to a stop and then reverse some before stabilizing.
I've noticed a few posts vanish as well. I assume they had DB issues and ended up losing things. Seems possible that /. has issues with it given /code.
Nothing more to say at this point.
Far as I'm concern, MS can pay us taxes if they want to have any say in how we build any infrastructure in Seattle/King County/Washington State.
Until then, they can fuck off.
Be seeing you...
Quite a few people use transit on the 520 bridge. Our park 'n' rides are bursting at the seams (it's hard to find a parking spot at the one I use!) and commuter buses are quite often standing room only during rush hour (even mine, which leaves every 8 minutes).
Anyway, McGinn wants DEDICATED mass transit lanes, while the Microsoft executives want carpool/bus combo lanes. That's the big rift. I personally like McGinn's plan: there are already enough people driving across that bridge, and it's a mess every rush hour. Reward mass transit users by assuring them a quick commute and we will dramatically reduce emissions and waste.
Combining rail with road traffic on a new bridge is about as sound an environmental decision as combining heavy-lift capabilities with manned flight with satellite retrieval was a sound economic decision for the space shuttle. Or buying a combo TV/VCR would've been in 2001. There might be some cases that make sense, but you add structural and maintenance design constraints to both projects that increase the overall cost, and energy cost.
Unless you have a space constraint on either landing preventing a two-bridge solution, it's probably better to keep them separate.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Since they aren't paying taxes in WA, they have no say in the matter.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
That's pretty much it. KDawson has got to be one really sick individual.
I mean, when I do a web search all I get is articles talking about how Microsoft is doing everything it can to accelerate the plans for the new bridge -- which can only be good for CO2 emissions, especially considering that the construction has been delayed multiple times over literally a decade. When I read TFA on slashdot, it looks like MS is just getting in the way for absolutely no reason.
Pathetic, kdawson -- absolutely pathetic. You are a really sorry excuse for a person.
Wow talk about anti-microsoft spin. They are campaigning against delaying the rebuilding process.
That's what you get for reading the fucking article.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
The summary is unbelievably slanted; whoever tagged this story "troll" was correct. Here is the complete situation; judge for yourself.
Lake Washington is a tall, skinny lake that's rather deep in the middle. It takes a while to drive around it; if you bicycle around the circumference of the lake, it's about 50 miles total.
On the west side of the lake, you have a tall, skinny city: Seattle. The biggest city in the state, lots of people live there.
On the east side of the lake, you have a tall, skinny populated area. But it isn't just one city; it's Bothell, Woodinville, Kirkland, Bellevue, Redmond, Renton, and a few small ones. Collectively these are known as "the Eastside".
Because Lake Washington is so deep, an ordinary bridge is impractical. That is why the three longest floating bridges in the world are on Lake Washington: the Evergreen Point Floating Bridge (I tend to slip and call it the "floating point bridge") is the one with highway 520, and it is the longest single floating bridge in the world. (The other two are used for I-90 a couple of miles to the south of 520.) By the way, I suspect that one of the reasons we have the longest floating bridges is the fact that the Chittenden Locks in Seattle allow for some control over the water level of Lake Washington; if we have torrential rain, engineers can just open the locks and let the waters drain out of the lake system and lower the water level again to the safe zone for the floating bridges.
When the 520 bridge was first built, all the action was in Seattle. Not that many people lived on the Eastside, and not that many Seattle people needed to go to the Eastside. But Microsoft and a bunch of other technical companies are on the Eastside, so now many people actually commute from Seattle to the Eastside over the 520 bridge.
There are rich neighborhoods right on the water, on both sides of the lake. The fabled small city of Medina, where Bill Gates has his famous house, is right by the 520 bridge. The rich folks have been successfully blocking all attempts to upgrade the 520 bridge; as I understand it, their attitude is that they already don't like the car noise, so why would they want more traffic to be able to flow over the bridge? The area has been talking about replacing the 520 bridge for something like 14 years now, and for most of that time the project has been blocked.
But the 520 bridge really needs to be replaced. If you measure the life of the bridge in terms of how many cars have driven over it, the bridge is way, way past its planned lifetime already. A serious wind storm could sink it. A serious earthquake could sink it. And the consequences for traffic would be epic (not in a good way).
Right now, all it takes is a Husky football game at the University of Washington, putting extra traffic on the already overloaded bridge, and the whole area is just about paralyzed. Normally the I-90 bridge is fine, but when the 520 gets bad enough and traffic diverts to the other bridge, both bridges can be parking lots. It will already be bad when the 520 bridge is closed for construction of the new bridge; I seriously hope that they can mostly build the new bridge somewhere and float it into place with minimal down time. If the bridge fails in a wind storm, we will be many months, possibly years without any bridge and the traffic will be dire. In short, any further delay in building the bridge is Not A Good Idea.
Now, the existing bridge is two traffic lanes each way. There is no carpool lane. There is no shoulder. Any time a vehicle stalls, a tow truck gets over there ASAP and pulls it off the bridge, but it still does horrible things to the already horrible traffic. As other posters have noted, the 520 carpool lane disappears right before the bridge, and the westbound neck-down where three lanes go to two lanes is the single most congested piece of road in the whole state.
So, we have a bridge plan finally that is ready to move ahead. It ha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Long time slashdot reader and usually don't post, but I feel a strong need to post regarding to this.
I live on the eastside and have to commute to and from Seattle arcoss the 520 bridge every day. The bridge sucks, to say the least. Traffic is horrid. It's out of date. Something new needs to be done, and it needs to be done _now_. The project keeps getting delayed and delayed and this is bad for Microsoft as well as bad for everyone who lives in the greater Seattle area. I'm a linux die-hard and hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but this article really is just spin.
I'm glad they're getting involved, since their employees will be a significant portion of the traffic on the bridge. It takes balls of steel to buy full page ads in the Seattle Times trying to dictate how our local tax dollars should be spent when they are over $1.2 BILLION behind on their own state taxes. Washington state is currently facing a budget shortfall of $2.8 billion... and Microsoft's pet congresscritter is sponsoring legislation to give them amnesty on the $1.2B in back taxes and a $100M/year tax break going forward.
Hey Microsoft: sinc you care so much, how about if you pay for the bridge?
http://microsofttaxdodge.com/
Every time I've seen it happen it was a post where it was clear the author spoke without taking a moment to control a knee-jerk response. That said, perhaps this is a DB issue and it happens uniformly to all posts but if that is the case you would think it would happen to popular and constructure posts as often as it would knee-jerks and that you'd see more prominent cases of "Hey, where did that post go!!!". I only have a few data points to go on but I'm building up the suspicion that it is in some way related to the content of the post.
Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
Why do posts like this dissapear?
Huh? Posts like what?
For insisting a 47-year old bridge be repaired to remain usable and safe, and for contradicting their chairman's personal opinions about the planet in a business decision about a single bridge.
Karma fed to this user will be promptly burnt. Be warned; be wary.
Just like every other company in the area they pay the same taxes and have as much right to have a say in the infrastructure of the area as anyone else.
Gates is part of the establishment.
That being, OIL.
Nice propaganda stunt, but if anyone here honestly believes we are going to make a dent on alternative ANYTHING that doesn't involve OIL is seriously whacked.
There is no way the 8 or so families in the world that control OIL distribution and production will permit someone to just walk in and destroy their wealth and power.
There is nothing hard about the problem of alternative energy to OIL. There is however, a political and power structure problem.
Gates is a fool.
He doesn't have the expertise or the education to make any meaningful comments about a free market that would be built upon alternative energy and how it would work.
Gates wealth was built on fraud, industrial espionage, theft and pay offs to judges and congressional leaders to operate an illegal monopoly in the United States.
(Now, the United Fascist States of America.)
This is the last person I want commenting on anything....
Seriously.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
All large business attempts to minimize their tax burdens via legal means.
Funding: $17.5 million Microsoft. Redmond $5.4 million. Other: $7.1 million. NE 36th/31st Street Bridge "The bridge includes pedestrian access and bike connections across the SR 520 freeway and to the SR 520 Bike Trail."
The median household income in Redmond, population 49,000, is $88,000. [2008] The median value of a Redmond house or condo is $496,000. Redmond, Washington
It's fair to suggest that most employers of 40,000 whose workers take-home pay generates numbers like these would probably get the campus bridge for free.
The proposed 4.5 mile bike and pedestrian trail across the 520 pontoon bridge is worth a look: A new way across Lake Washington for cyclists and walkers
The graphic may also give you some sense of how much adding a rail link now would add to the cost and complexity of the project.
Not really... http://microsofttaxdodge.com/
I'd have a smidgen more respect for these uberrich guys when they talk about the environment and energy if I saw them like taking sail boats when they cross the ocean instead of private jets, or ride a bicycle to the TED conference, or..OK..at least drive a car personally that is fueled by carbon recyclable cellulose derived ethanol, or hemp biodiesel, anything that can be done now.. Or better, he's a big computer guy, why not give the speech via teleconferencing instead, no need to move heavy meatbags at all when you can move cheaper electrons (Pet peeve of mine, millions commuting daily to go sit in front of a computer screen...then they go back home where there is..a computer screen...geezzz).
Want to make a point? Lead by example, *then* talk about it, then go ahead and lecture people on what "they" need to do. Want to save energy and encourage green living? Lead by example, not by lecture. Want to cut your carbon footprint way down? How about starting with not living in a mansion the size of a small village in the third world. Stuff like that.
Hmm, which attempt do you refer to? I've been accused of that a few times. (I stand by what I say BTW.)
This poster has no effing clue about Microsoft and mass transit. Microsoft spends MASSIVE money funding local transit, including buses (both city buses and its own fleet of privately-operated neighborhood buses), pushing light rail, and funding local improvements to Washington's freeways. Microsoft pays for every single employee to have absolutely free access to all Seattle buses, as a way to encourage people to take buses, rather than commute in single cars.
This article is trying to smear Microsoft, to portray Microsoft as if it is trying to resist some reasonable transit bill. It is a smear, just like most articles posted on Slashdot about Microsoft.
I commute to Microsoft campus every day, and have for years. The effort that the company has spent on improving transit access, and on massively funding PUBLIC transportation and on pushing people away from single-occupant cars and toward better options is just amazing. Screw the author of this bullshit headline.
...contributed to the development of efficient cars while Nazi polluted the environment over the course of WWII.
No, seriously, who fucking cares what Gates or Microsoft say about CO2? Or Uranium. Or puppies. There is not enough fuel on this planet to create the amount of damage they caused to science, engineering and culture over their more than three decades of their reign over everything even remotely related to computing.
(Godwin can kiss my ass -- Microsoft and Nazi are by now at the comparable scale as far as lasting consequences are concerned).
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I think it is more to do with co2 and climate change articles.
He seems intent on getting a climate change in story every day no matter what the technical relation is.
I am dead set against nuclear power until they can solve the nuclear waste problem. I know, breeder reactors, blah blah blah, they don't exist in this country and I have not heard of a plan to build one. Let's see, the choice is between CO2 that will go away in my lifetime (either naturally or with some help), and radioactive waste that will last several thousands of years...
Actually, a car traveling a constant 60mph is probably burning less fuel on a trip than a car going 0-10mph in stop and go traffic traveling over the same distance. Ideally it should take about 90 seconds to drive over the 520 bridge. Instead it takes between 5 and 30 minutes depending on what time of day you attempt to cross and what direct you go. Allowing cars move faster will ultimately reduce fuel consumption, which will reduce pollution. Everyone wins with more lanes.
I don't see why they want to take down the current 4 lane bridge and replace it with a 6 lane bridge. Eight or 10 lanes would do much more to alleviate congestion AND would still allow them to build their train tracks AND leave room for cars and busses. Heaven forbid that the regional economy picks up someday and there are more people commuting to and from Redmond and Seattle than there are today or tomorrow or ten years down the road. Otherwise, a year after the new bridge opens people will be complaining about congestion again and how this bridge needs to be removed and replaced with a larger bridge.
...and the reason Microsoft is against it is the reason every other reasonable person is against it -- the cost is tremendous, and the return benefits only 1 to 2 percent of the population. Everybody else drives. This isn't Microsoft being anti-green, it's Microsoft being pro-efficiency.
Yes, I work for a software company in Redmond, but it isn't Microsoft.
You bolded the wrong part, when you should be bolding "...to come up with a new 520 plan". That's right, there's already a plan that was agreed upon. Then a new crop of politicians get in there and want to make a name for themselves. So instead of building what has already taken ten years or more upon which to build consensus, let's start all over. How about "no", and build the damned thing already before an earthquake or storm sends the current bridge to the bottom of Lake Washington (at which point we're really screwed).
If I'm not riding the bus from Redmond to Seattle every day, I'm riding my bicycle, and I probably drive to work less than a half dozen times a year. I don't care if there are more car lanes or not (though I do look forward to a bike lane). I do care that the area politicians quit screwing around and start building a bridge that's long overdue. *That* is what Microsoft seems to be supporting, and what they don't support is "let's sit around and talk about it for a few more years".
Quote the story's bias all you want, it doesn't make it true. Transit options have nothing to do with it.
It seems Microsoft wants the already planned, 6-lanes (of which 2 HOV) change, and does not want the (not yet planned) change to 2 HOV lanes, 2 general lanes and a rapid bus or light rail lane.
Only two HOV and two general purpose lanes? You've gotta be kidding me... anyone who has EVER driven across the 520 bridge in rush hour would cry foul. Mass transit is a great idea, except in the Seattle area it never runs when you need it to, which means anyone with a less-than-typical schedule (that is to say, 90% of the Puget Sound work force) still has to drive if they want to be able to get home after work.
Right now the bridge is 4 lanes, none of them HOV. Moving ~80% of that traffic into one lane, ~15% into another lane, and ~5 into a mass-transit lane would only a) make the problems worse and b) under-utilize the new bridge.
If someone wanted to suggest making the bridge slightly wider so it could accommodate 4 general-purpose, 2 HOV, and 1 set of tracks down the middle, and do it in such a way that it doesn't significantly delay construction, I'd be all for it.
The SR520 bridge over Lake Washington is the longest floating bridge in the world.
The second longest is one span of the I-90 bridge a few miles south over the same lake.
When first built (decades ago) there were many concerns over the viability of these floating bridges, but they've worked well in practice. Well, one span of the original I-90 bridge sunk, but that was a silly mistake. (Insert Monty Python joke here about bridges sinking into the swamp...)
The bridges are built as floating bridges because Lake Washington is really deep and has a muddy bottom.
Sounds like Bill trying to create a market for his simulated, carbon-free nuclear waste burner with assorted nucleotides. Hope it works better than Windows. Otherwise we're going have fun with radioactive, explosive liquid metals every month or two.
Environmental issues may not be humanitarian just yet, but in 50 years or less they certainly will be.
What about living closer to work? Okay, so it's expensive there. It's also expensive to retrofit the bridge. Why should everyone have to pay instead of just the people who need to cross the bridge? If you have to cross the bridge every day, move.
Now with that said, Bill Gates campaigning for lower CO2 emissions is complete bullshit. Remember how the Gates foundation was shown to be investing for-profit in organizations causing respiratory illness in the very people they were immunizing? And then they issued a statement saying they would review their investments for this kind of evil, and then issued another statement saying they wouldn't because it was too hard? It's only been three years, let's try to have a longer memory. This is hypocrisy at its purest.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Space Based Solar/Beamed Microwave. Nukes are only worthwhile until we have the constellation of satellites built.
Until we get a second Maunder Minimum... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum and then your solar power satellites quit producing sufficient energy, and then you're back in trouble, but with means of introducing alternate infrastructure, because you've shut everything else down. I'd probably be OK, if you were lower down on the priority list for electricity for use in heating living spaces and growing food than I was... but you wouldn't.
-- Terry
We need to stop focusing on carbon footprint... and focus on sustainability, and energy efficiency.
Even if we cut global carbon emissions by 95%... what would that solve?...
In the long run... all it would do... is lower the global temperature by 2 Degrees...
That's Right... only 2 Degrees.
The earth has warming and cooling cycles. It always has.
Lowering our carbon emissions by even 100% is not going to keep; The Polar Ice Caps from melting, California from being swallowed by the Ocean, or Prevent the next Ice age.
This stuff WILL happen eventually... we need to focus on our plans for these scenarios... and how to make our buildings, computer, cars etc... last longer... and work more efficiently.
Are you new here?
Microsoft doesn't pay taxes in Washington state because they are corporated (or whatever it's called), in Nevada, where you don't have to pay a state tax for corportations.
Be seeing you...