Here Come the Linux iPad Clones

CWmike writes "You can now pre-order an Apple iPad; but do you really want to, asks Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols. 'I mean, I get why you'd want an iPad. I'd like one too,' he writes. 'But,' he says, 'when I consider that there are soon going to be literally dozens of cheaper, Linux-powered iPad devices on the market, I find it a lot easier to resist putting $499 on my credit card. On top of that, Apple will be including DRM on some eBooks and other iPad content. I really, really hate DRM. All that said, I agree the iPad is really cool. I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones are going to kill off single purpose devices like dedicated eReaders such as Amazon's Kindle and GPS devices within the next three years. How can it not work out this way? For the same price as a high-end dedicated device you can get a tablet that will do everything they can do and far more. But, and this is the important bit, you don't have to buy an Apple iPad to get all of the iPad's goodies. ARM, a mobile microprocessor power, is predicting that we'll see no less than 50 ARM-processor-powered iPad clones by year's end. And, what will they be running? These ARM-powered entertainment tablets will all be running Linux.'"

Comments

No iPad for me

[Pojut]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them, I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and only applies to myself.

Re:No iPad for me

[jo42]

You are right. The iPad isn't for you.
The iPad is for your Ma, Pa, Grandma and Grandpa.
In other words, everyone else in the world that isn't a nerd/geek/tech-head.

Re:No iPad for me

[WrongSizeGlass]

FTFA

ARM, a mobile microprocessor power, is predicting that we'll see no less than 50 ARM processor-powered iPad clones by year's end — and these ARM-powered entertainment tablets will all be running Linux.

50? Really, 50? That can't be good for anyone of them. Market fragmentation leads to incompatible devices, applications, etc.

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

No. No, it hasn't.

Re:No iPad for me

[Pojut]

If this was even just ten years ago, I would agree with you...but at this point, the average person has a basic understanding of how to use a computer, and shouldn't be pandered to with watered down offerings that cost as much if not more than their full-fledged peers. The elderly thing still holds true today, although the "young" elderly are more tech-knowledgeable than ever before.

If someone WANTS to pay that much for something with half the functionality of similarly priced tablets, that's totally up to them...but I think it's a little insulting to suggest that you have to be a geek to use something more complicated than a modified version of the iPhone OS.

Re:No iPad for me

[commodore64_love]

Why? Can't ma, pa, gram, and gramps just use a Windows XP or Ubuntu or Puppy Linux tablet? They are as easy to use as this porta-Mac iPad. Maybe you would have had an argument that Macs/Apples were better in the 1980s or 90s (and been right), but that doesn't apply today. The "others" have caught up.

Re:No iPad for me

[93 Escort Wagon]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them, I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and only applies to myself.

You grasp something that a lot of people in these arguments fail to understand - that there are opinions that differ from yours (gasp!). The worst "offenders" seem to be some of the folks who basically wanted an OS X-based clone of the typical Windows Tablet PC. The only pre-release poll I knew about the "rumored Apple device" fell pretty decidedly in favor of an iPhone-like interface instead of a OS X-like interface - it was something like 2/3 to 1/3.

For me, as an iPod Touch owner, the Apple restrictions have not been a perceived problem - and the larger screen an iPad offers may very well eventually lead me to purchase an iPad (AFTER the first generation!). But obviously there are people like you that want the absolute freedom they perceive in a Linux-based tablet device, and who chafe at the restrictions they see in the Apple offering. Having options is always better, no matter which camp you fall into; and the market will eventually settle all these questions we seem to love endlessly debating on Slashdot.

Re:No iPad for me

[poetmatt]

as others replied to you, that market of non geek/nerd/techhead is only getting smaller over time.

trying to cater to that market is just going to become futile. The more popular/successful these devices get, the more people become geek/nerd/tech head.

Re:No iPad for me

[JaredOfEuropa]

It really depends on what you want from such a device. At first I wondered why on earth I'd want an iPad... but then it struck me that I would really like a good device for on the coffee table in the living room, for light browsing and such. Something that:
- is small, lightweight, and looks good
- instantly switches on (no booting, no taking bloody ages to come out of hybernation)
- has a usable touch screen... I do not give a toss about multitouch, but I love the iPhone touch screen because it works very well even with fat fingers.

I'm very much a Wintel guy, but I've considered getting an Apple laptop, mainly because they really do come out of hybernation instantly, making them useful to have lying around in the living room. Now I might get an iPad instead... Lack of a physical keyboard makes the device lighter and better looking, and if the touch screen is as good as the iPhone's, it'll be more than good enough for casual use. And the user interface is very well suited to this scenario.

The iPad looks like a winner for me... Unless one of those Linux ones measure up. But it'll take a lot to beat Apple when DRM is not an issue and their out-of-the-box product already does what I want.

Re:No iPad for me

[Captain Splendid]

but at this point, the average person has a basic understanding of how to use a computer, and shouldn't be pandered to with watered down offerings

You clearly have not done a lot of tech support. The "average person" deserves treatment only slightly better than being beaten with rubber hoses. Since that won't clear marketing, they'll get the iPad instead.

Re:No iPad for me

[Pojut]

You grasp something that a lot of people in these arguments fail to understand - that there are opinions that differ from yours (gasp!). The worst "offenders" seem to be some of the folks who basically wanted an OS X-based clone of the typical Windows Tablet PC. The only pre-release poll I knew about the "rumored Apple device" fell pretty decidedly in favor of an iPhone-like interface instead of a OS X-like interface - it was something like 2/3 to 1/3.

I made very sure to include the "it only applies to me, this is my opinion" boilerplate to that post, ESPECIALLY in a discussion about the iPad :-)

For me, as an iPod Touch owner, the Apple restrictions have not been a perceived problem - and the larger screen an iPad offers may very well eventually lead me to purchase an iPad (AFTER the first generation!). But obviously there are people like you that want the absolute freedom they perceive in a Linux-based tablet device, and who chafe at the restrictions they see in the Apple offering. Having options is always better, no matter which camp you fall into; and the market will eventually settle all these questions we seem to love endlessly debating on Slashdot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the iPad shouldn't exist...I know it's going to sell well, and for the type of device it is, it looks like it does its job well...I just think Apple is going a little overboard with the Apple Tax this time. If each model was reduced by $100-$150 (which I'm sure won't take long, if history is any indication) then I think it would be worth the money in its current state. As it stands though, my primary issue is paying a full-feature price for a half-feature product. That's all.

Re:No iPad for me

[rsborg]

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

What a completely stupid question. Guess what? It's not like Linus can actually command some tablet maker to not use Linux, unless that manufacturer violates GPL. Other than that, you can Tivo-ize Linux, hide it safely inside a cluster of google compute-nodes, hell you could even put it in a missle and fire it off. Not much that Linus, Redhat or anyone from the "desktop wars" could anything about. "50 different tablets" is just another page in the unfinished book of Linux.

Re:No iPad for me

[bennomatic]

the larger screen an iPad offers may very well eventually lead me to purchase an iPad (AFTER the first generation!).

I'm an early adopter, you insensitive clod!

Joking aside, this is exactly the kind of reasonable disagreement I wish I saw more of on the net. It's almost like Pres. Obama took over SlashDot from CmdrTaco.

Re:No iPad for me

[Pojut]

You clearly have not done a lot of tech support.

I do quality assurance and mail merge programming in a call center. Trust me, I've seen some stupid shit :-)

That being said, the average person still knows how to use a "regular" computer. They might not know how to fix one or maintain one, but I don't see how that would be any different with an iPad. True, being locked into the app store would prevent them from wandering elsewhere and downloading potentially "harmful" software, but my question is this: why wouldn't Apple let me use the appstore OR whatever software I want. I know the answer (money and sales, obviously), but that doesn't mean I like it (which is why I won't get one, doy)

The "average person" deserves treatment only slightly better than being beaten with rubber hoses. Since that won't clear marketing, they'll get the iPad instead.

Awesome:-)

Re:No iPad for me

[Pojut]

I wouldn't have a problem with Apple's limited functionality if the price was lowered. IMO, the Apple tax is a little too high on this one, though...I'm not paying a full-feature price for a half-feature device.

Re:No iPad for me

[timeOday]

You clearly have not done a lot of tech support. The "average person" deserves treatment only slightly better than being beaten with rubber hoses.

On the other hand, the average tech support call is from somebody who calls tech support more often than the average person.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you'll be free to install a dozen linux distributions on your device.

Every distribution will ship with a half-dozen touch-screen keyboards applets. Some of those keyboards will work with Gnome applications, and some will work with KDE applications. No keyboard will work with all applications. Each keyboard will have its own unique look and feel, and internationalization will be broken on all of them.

Every UI element will be skinnable. Every distribution will ship with a half-dozen applications to apply those skins. Those applications will not be compatible with each other, and applying a consistent skin to all elements simultaneously will be impossible.

Wireless will not work in any distribution.

Re:No iPad for me

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

Until you're holding one of each and giving it a spin you're not going to see any reason.

Unless, of course, the mods think I sound insightful if I say "I see no reason to be stuck with half-assed Open Source copies of what Apple does, but it's just my opinion."?

Re:No iPad for me

[darjen]

do you really think everyone else wouldn't want to surf the web while listening to Pandora?

Re:No iPad for me

[david_thornley]

You're dead wrong. The iPad isn't a real computer. It's not a Mac Mini or equivalent in a tablet form. It's an overgrown iPod Touch, an appliance. You're talking about two separate things.

There's vast numbers of people who want to do web browsing, email, light word processing, and casual games who I'd rather not have running a real computer on the Net, and I don't think you want them to have a real computer either. However, right now they can only do what they want by having a botnet member in the house. iPads will be whitelisted, with all the usual Apple restrictions, and they won't wind up in botnets. (Yes, I know there was an iPhone botnet. They were jailbroken. Don't jailbreak and you're pretty safe.)

I suspect all the other tablets will be real computers, which will make them far more attractive to you or me, but which will have to be managed by non-geeks and which will wind up in botnets en masse.

In the meantime, I've got lots of relatives and some friends who could benefit greatly from iPads. (Most of my friends are fellow geeks, so they're not going to be as interested in the iPad.)

Re:No iPad for me

[Pojut]

I will end up with whichever one I can install any program I want on to; that's pretty much my only requirement. Whether that means going with a Linux-based device or a Windows 7-based device, I don't care.

As in my first post, this is only my opinion and only apply it to myself.

Re:No iPad for me

[MonsterTrimble]

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

Um, let's see: Gnome, KDE, XCFE, Enlightenment, LXDE, Flux/Openbox... and those are just the ones that have had a "buntu" suffix.

The Linux world hasn't learned a damn thing.

Re:No iPad for me

[treeves]

This is a very good point. Wish I had not used up my mod points.

Re:No iPad for me

[Miseph]

He would. Because he's a Communist. And a Nazi. And that's what communists/Nazis do. Somebody yelled it on TV, then broke down crying, then berated somebody else for being gay... which by Internet rules makes it the absolute gospel truth.

Yep.

Re:No iPad for me

[dfghjk]

Funny, the vast majority of those people have had no problem with computers up 'til now. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that they need something even more dumbed down.

No, the iPad isn't for them, either, it's for Apple's insatiable need for control.

Re:No iPad for me

[dc29A]

Why? Can't ma, pa, gram, and gramps just use a Windows XP or Ubuntu or Puppy Linux tablet?

I'll answer with a question: What is easier to use/maintain/update/secure: a PS3 or a Windows/Mac/Linux gaming PC?

Re:No iPad for me

[dfghjk]

I'm sure they will be well served by mobile Safari's incompatibilities with many webpage concepts and lack of flash.

Re:No iPad for me

[natehoy]

How many netbook models are out there today? 100? 200? That can't be good for any one of them. Yet it is. Competition means multiple companies all trying to make the best device for each user, at the best price. It worked with desktops, it worked with laptops, it worked with netbooks, and guess what? It'll work with tablets.

When netbooks became "the hot thing" as a format for casual computing, companies crawled out of the woodwork to make 'em, but they all used the same basic components, just configured a little differently. Asus has at least 6 current models of the eee, Dell has a generous handful of netbooks, and plenty of other companies make them. Yet most of them can run your choice of Windows or Linux (you just have to install Linux yourself on a lot of them). Most can even support MacOS with no problems at all. Sure, you run into a few minor hardware incompatibilities (Linux Mint loves EVERYTHING about my wife's Asus eeePC except the microphone, but it's a brand new one and I expect the driver fix will be out soon, plus she's OK with the 2-step workaround when she wants to video-conference with her mother, who runs a Windows 7 laptop).

The same thing will happen with TabletPCs. If the form factor takes off, most of the netbook manufacturers will rebuild their devices without a keyboard. Same processors, same base components, same hard drives, same screens (just add touch sensitivity). This will be a VERY easy conversion. I expect most will run Intel's N450 Pinewood, feature about a GB of ram, and use a small factor hard drive. Because, guess what? Those components exist, they're cheap, and they work darned well in small form factor machines.

It'll be thicker and heavier than an iPad, but not by much, and the reduction in moving parts will probably make up for the cost of the touch-sensitive screen, so you could probably make and sell them profitably for about $250-300 (given that $300 is about the going rate for a decent netbook right now) and that would include a battery that could last 10 hours, a webcam, a 250GB hard drive, and all the standard connectors along the edge (VGA, USB, Ethernet, etc). In other words, a thinner, lighter, "keyboardless netbook". And the ability to run everything your desktop does, connect to its network shares, etc etc.

In fact, really, the only "oddball" tablet out there is going to be the iPad. I'm not hating on Apple here, I'm sure it will be a great device. Apple makes great stuff. But it's the only device that is unlikely to run anything but the iPhone/iPodTouch/iPad OS. It's the only thing you won't be able to use your tether-capable cell phone on. It's the only thing that won't allow you to run any app you can download. Everything else out there will be capable of running the same OS your desktop does - or at least a minimized variant of it (Windows Seven Starter, for example). And all the same applications.

Re:No iPad for me

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Get whatever makes you happy. I'm saying consider what they do instead of what they might do. Otherwise you're just waiting to buy overpriced hardware that's fun to tinker with for a week.

Re:No iPad for me

[timmarhy]

your right, the itampon is the most restricted, useless, over priced heap of crap i've seen in a long time. i'm pretty sure the hype about it will turn when people actually see it's nothing more then an iphone which can't make calls.

Re:No iPad for me

[timmarhy]

your doing the classic fail where you think people just want to do email and browse the web. BZZZZZZZT, WRONG.

people want to be able to install that game or little app that tells them their star sign for the day. people don't have to be geeks to want a computer that's not crippled.

Re:No iPad for me

[cayenne8]

"If this was even just ten years ago, I would agree with you...but at this point, the average person has a basic understanding of how to use a computer, and shouldn't be pandered to with watered down offerings that cost as much if not more than their full-fledged peers."

I have to disagree, the 'average' person out there is dumb as a rock when it comes to computers.

It comes mostly from the general public all pretty much being idiots. If you've ever had to deal with the 'general public' in a public facing position, you'll soon form this same opinion. I spend years while in school in food service (from the kitchen to busboy, server, bartender), retail sales at a large department store...etc. Trust me, do this for a few years, and your faith in the average person drops considerably. No, I don't consider myself elitist, but wow...you work out there long enough and well, I've already said it.

That said, it is a good thing to do...helps you learn people skills that have helped me out a GREAT deal in my later professional life when I got a 'real' job. Speaking in front of others..salesmanship, etc, they go a LONG way in the business and tech world.

Re:No iPad for me

[93 Escort Wagon]

I made very sure to include the "it only applies to me, this is my opinion" boilerplate to that post, ESPECIALLY in a discussion about the iPad :-)

Yeah, same reason I tried to use words like "perceived" both regarding my opinion and that of others - while my reasons for having my opinion are important to me, it doesn't mean any particular one (or all) of those factors particularly matters to anyone else.

Re:No iPad for me

[Bob-o-Matic!]

That raises a good point: If I launch a missile at my enemy or an unfortunate neighbor, and the missile's internal computer uses GPL software, then do I have to include a copy of the GPL source code (or make an offer to provide the code by mail) somewhere in the payload?

"If you can compile this then you are one lucky SOB"

Just hypothetical; I don't design, build, or launch missiles professionally or otherwise :\

Re:No iPad for me

[ThreeE]

You can install whatever software you want on an iPhone or an iPad using ad hoc distribution.

Re:No iPad for me

[mdwh2]

It's so easy to just make up claims, isn't it? I might as well say that everyone's going to buy the new Amiga.

The point you're missing is that it's only in the nerd/geek/tech world that Apple have any significant following. E.g., consider how the Iphone is loved here on Slashdot, but in the mobile market as a whole, Apple are one of the smallest players, with most people buying Nokia. Similarly, Macs are loved here, but most people use Windows. And given that you have to do things like jailbreaking to get functionality to work, I'm not sure that it's right to say it's for your non-geek grandmother.

Re:No iPad for me

[mdwh2]

I'll answer by asking the question of whether apples or oranges are heavier. Also, that's a non-sequitur.

Re:No iPad for me

[kiddygrinder]

yeah, this is pretty much exactly what i want too, will prolly get some cheapy linux tablet that hopefully works tho.

Re:No iPad for me

[mweather]

I thought that was limited to 100 devices. I suppose you could re-upload a new binary every 100 downloads, though. Are there any automated tools that do that, or did they remove/raise the limit?

Re:No iPad for me

[harlows_monkeys]

The iPad is for your Ma, Pa, Grandma and Grandpa. In other words, everyone else in the world that isn't a nerd/geek/tech-head

I'm a major geek, and I pre-orded an iPad 15 minutes after the Apple store came back up this morning. (No, I did not stay up all-night just for that. I was up hacking some scripts I was writing to convert a big svn repository to hg).

A lot of geeks will buy iPads. Just because we geeks and smart enough to overcome inferior software when we encounter it doesn't mean we don't appreciate a well-designed appliance device. Out of the box, with no software added other than iWork plus the upcoming OmniGroup stuff, the iPad will be very useful to me.

Re:No iPad for me

[mdwh2]

There are already plenty of devices including phones and tablets that do that. The Ipad is still nothing new - at least, nothing that deserves such absurd amounts of hype and free publicity, even when it's still vaporware (how many years is it now since the Apple tablet rumours started?)

Re:No iPad for me

[mweather]

A bike is easier to use/maintain/update/secure than a car is, yet my grandma can drive just fine.

Re:No iPad for me

[PopeRatzo]

You are right. The iPad isn't for you.

It's for your hairdresser, interior decorator and unpublished trust-fund dilettante who is writing a "novel" while sipping his seventh mochachino.

The iPad is for your Ma, Pa, Grandma and Grandpa.

So, it's for senior citizens? Actually, my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags. She's a tough old bird and member of The Greatest Generation. And when she found out that she couldn't run anything but Apple-approved apps on the iPad, her exact response was "fuck alla that noise".

Re:No iPad for me

[RexDevious]

While the idea that the iPad is "just a large ~$1000 iPodTouch" seems like a turn off - there actually is a real benefit here that won't be matched by Linux Pads or dedicated e-book readers. Why? Well, I got my mum an iPhone when they first came out so she could more easily learn her way around her first cell because it was a variation on her computer, an iMac. It's been like 3 years, and she's still only comfortable with a fraction of it's features.

For moms, the primary benefit of the iPad is that it *is* just a large version of their cell phone. So they already know how to use it, it just finally got a screen big enough for older eyes to read. Yeah, I'm getting one for myself first - but part of what made the buying decision easier was knowing that even if I don't like it - that can be the one I give to her.

I know it doesn't seem like in the middle of a slashdot thread on Linux iPads - but trust me, the vast majority of the rest of the world doesn't think technology is a fraction as interesting as most of us do. To them, it either make something they already do (read books, listen to music, watch movies) easier - or it's just a pain in the ass they don't need. However else you feel about Apple, they've got a pretty good track record of meeting that standard.

Re:No iPad for me

[Conchobair]

"No ma'am, that's not a drink holder, it's a CD/DVD tray... Yes ma'am, they always go in shiny side down."

"No sir, that is not hackers taking over your computer every 10 minutes, that's what we call a screen saver."

"I understand you want to keep your surge protector protected; however you can't plug it into itself. It needs to go into the wall to power the other devices"

All real... sadly... Sometimes I miss it.

Re:No iPad for me

[Crudely_Indecent]

Just because the device comes with a flavor geared by the manufacturer, doesn't mean that the device cannot be set up with your favorite distro.

I've had great luck with modern Linux distributions (perhaps it's skill)- deploying on HP G3 and G4 blades, old Compaq Proliant servers (1650R and 1850R), new HP Proliant servers (DL380 and DL560), every Thinkpad I've ever owned (that's quite a few), and the Ideapad netbooks I bought for my daughters (Lenovo S10-2)

IMHO, the Linux world did learn its lesson - slow and steady wins the race.

Think about how many devices have Linux installed on them, and how many ways Linux touches our daily lives. Your ISP probably runs Linux in some form, possibly without knowing it. The website you're looking at runs on Linux (at least the RSS feeds). Your digital camera might be running linux. Your cell phone might run Linux. Chances are, most people are touched by Linux in their daily lives.

Re:No iPad for me

[mdwh2]

And the Ipad will also be only one of numerous devices, so how will that help Apple any better?

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

What, you mean the desktop where Windows runs on the vast majority of computers, even though there are vast numbers (far more than 50) of different PCs to run on? And where the OS-and-hardware-from-one-company model remains a niche?

Perhaps we could compare to phones instead, you know, the market where Symbian runs on 250 million devices, Windows Mobile runs on 50 million - and Apple are where, remind me? (It's 42 million, for the curious.)

The troubles Linux has had on the desktop have bugger all to do with fragmentation of hardware, nor of companies selling that hardware.

Re:No iPad for me

[aristotle-dude]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them, I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and only applies to myself.

Then you will have to install Kaspersky's software as well. Are you sure that you want that? The computer is a "wild west" environment but do you seriously have to have every device completely open to everything good or bad?

Re:No iPad for me

[zmollusc]

I agree totally about the stupidity of the average person. Horrifyingly, nearly 50% of people are even stupider!

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

of course, and in the GPLv4 they will close hole allowing you to destroy the offer in the process of distributing the code. Some missile designers may complain about how impractical that makes designing Linux powered missiles, and that the FSF is pushing would be missile manufactures into the arms of closed source missileware, but clearly those people never understood the spirit of the GPL.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them, I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

This is the exact reason I do want an iPad.

I want to give it to the old man and say: do your surfing and email on this! I swear, my parents have the reverse midas touch with computers - it can work fine for years on end, if they touch it something breaks and goes beserk. Everytime I visit them, there is something to fix that god only knows how they manage to break. Except for their iPhones. Somehow, they didn't manage to make the software self-destruct yet. It's a damn miracle.

(Yes, if the iPad had a card reader it would have been nicer. Hopefully it has printing...)

Re:No iPad for me

[ctishman]

How can you say that? She damn near ran me down last week!

Re:No iPad for me

[EdelFactor19]

or your mom could gain some real world skills and learn how to freaking use a computer.... oh wait its just that like computer you have at home and that you use at work...

Re:No iPad for me

[icebraining]

Yes, I agree. The Linux World has yet to learn that costumization is a bad thing, and that we should all use "The One" product marketing sell us, instead of actually adapting the computer to us and not the reverse.

Using Awesome WM.

Re:No iPad for me

[GigaHurtsMyRobot]

Do you have any links to available devices that have more features and lower prices? I'm just asking because this thread about Ipad Clones is amazingly lacking in references to actual products that people are choosing instead.

Re:No iPad for me

[PopeRatzo]

They are as easy to use as this porta-Mac iPad.

Actually, if the iPad were anything like a "porta-Mac it wouldn't have required app-store tie-ins, nor would they be purposely borked by the manufacturer to prevent tethering to iPhones.

The iPad is in fact nothing like the products that gave the Macs a reputation for technological elegance and user-friendliness.

You didn't have to jailbreak a Mac to make it do the things you wanted it to do. You didn't have to get all your apps from Apple, and you could even write your own applications without getting permission if you were so inclined. You didn't have to sign a two-year contract with a shitty phone company when you bought your Mac, either. When you bought it, it was yours and it was the adventurousness of the people who took to Macintosh computers in order to make music, art, and video that gave Apple the "cachet" of being cool that has served it so well with the soy latte crowd.

Apple is like that great neighborhood just a short distance from the city center where all the cool artists and creative folks moved in because the neighborhood had flavor and was reasonably priced, but then word got out that it was a "hot neighborhood" and all the yuppies and Bed, Bath and Beyonds moved in and now you can't find a place to park and you can't rent an apartment because all the old buildings were torn down to make cookie-cutter townhouses and "multi-use" upscale shopping and all the funky restaurants have been replaced by joints where someone named "Sami" takes your order and an appetizer the size of a postage stamp is covered with goat cheese and arugula and a beer is $11.50 and all the cool people have moved about 10 blocks away to a new great neighborhood which might not be as shiny and upscale but at least you can walk down the street without seeing every other person wearing an $80 Ed Hardy t-shirt. And the people that got hooked into seven-figure mortgages in order to buy their exposed-brick and granite countertop condos are suddenly looking over their shoulder and wondering why the neighborhood doesn't feel as cool as it once did. But of course, they'll never admit that fashion sucked them in so they'll wince and pretend that their neighborhood is still the coolest part of town because now nobody's going to take that condo off their hands anyway.

That's why you find people who were great fans of Apple products pre-iPod and have increasingly become disillusioned with the direction the company's taken. Are those people "geeks"? Maybe, but I doubt Apple is going to start putting in their advertisements any language that says "Techie geeks don't really care for our products".

Re:No iPad for me

[Sancho]

A car offers your grandma significant advantages over a bike. Does a Windows PC offer your grandma significant advantages over a car? I'm talking something on the same order of magnitude--being able to get a popup of your horoscope is not significant.

Re:No iPad for me

[Eggbloke]

my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags. She's a tough old bird and member of The Greatest Generation. And when she found out that she couldn't run anything but Apple-approved apps on the iPad, her exact response was "fuck alla that noise".

Why can't all grandmas be like this?

Re:No iPad for me

[Hurricane78]

Bullshit! If they all run linux, and all are ARM, the all run everything! No imaginary and no real fragmentation here!
Even the Chipsets will most likely be only coming from a hand full of companies.

I know that you in the USA (and of course in many other countries, like mine too) hate freedom or choice (look at your government), but this is a good thing!

Re:No iPad for me

[The End Of Days]

The average person's inability to maintain a computer is the reason we have massive botnets spewing out billions (am I several orders of magnitude low on that?) of spams a day. Your faith is people is highly misplaced, at least in this particular instance.

Re:No iPad for me

[Sancho]

Beg the question much?

A huge number of computers are infected with malware. Tech-savvy people are probably the lowest likely to be infected, pushing the percentages up even higher for your Ma, Pa, Grandma, and Grandpa (as the AC put it.) I would argue that these people "have problems" with their PCs, even if they don't know it. Then throw in the people who just want a simpler experience. The ones who complain and complain about how slow things are, how the computer doesn't do what they want it to, etc.

THEN consider the people who don't use a computer unless the absolutely have to, and who might be willing to use them more if they had something which sucked less.

Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty much against the iPad as designed. But I'm not against the concept of making things easier.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

How did this tripe get modded "insightful"? It's pure flamebait.

Re:No iPad for me

[Sancho]

I'm thinking that the killer aspect of the iPad is the deal with AT&T. $30/mo for data only? Purchasable/changeable from the iPad itself? No Linux pad is going to get that. AT&T won't give you just a data plan unless you have some serious clout or a hearing disability.

Re:No iPad for me

[Sancho]

Er, I should add:

They won't give that to you without a dongle and a contract.

Re:No iPad for me

[Hurricane78]

On the other hand, that is the mother of all statistical biases!

Re:No iPad for me

[ripewithdecay]

One criticism of the iPad that I can't really get behind is the price. I'd like to see a cheaper alternative, while still retaining the same horsepower, not to mention a 9.6" IPS panel.

Re:No iPad for me

[Sponge Bath]

...my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags. She's a tough old bird and member of The Greatest Generation.

Imagine this yelled by Lee Ermey in drill instructor's uniform with his face six inches from yours.

Re:No iPad for me

[NatasRevol]

Today I got an on site call. Mouse wasn't working right no matter what they did.

I literally rotated it 180 degrees. Problem solved before I even sat down.

Thanks, that will be $100!

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX does NOT come out of hibernation instantly. It takes the same amount of time to wake from hibernation as it does to boot.
Suspend, OTOH, takes about three seconds. two of which are me inputting my password.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

So real world skills are using a computer?

Your life must suck.

Re:No iPad for me

[tool462]

I'd just print the source code on the outer casing of the missile. It would also give the target a fighting chance at survival. Assuming they had a really high-res camera and a couple good coders, they'd have the total flight time to try and find a bug that they can exploit to change its trajectory. Feels more sporting somehow.

Re:No iPad for me

[NatasRevol]

Further proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution#Examples

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

Re:No iPad for me

[hairyfeet]

Actually the nuts you want to kick over that is the OEMs, which turn OFF automatic updates at the factory and set a user account with an easy to guess name and NO password at all. Hell even the most brain damaged script kiddie can infect an OEM PC.

Re:No iPad for me

[mdwh2]

There are Internet tablets at a fraction of the price. There are similarly far more functional netbooks for a fraction of the price (that can run in Sleep mode to avoid booting or hybernation issues), that will also sit better on your coffee table (since the screen can be angled better, instead of lying flat).

Would you spend far more that you would on a computer for just a device that's only for "light browsing"?

Tablets will become popular in time, but when the price is lower than the current price of netbooks - preferably below £100, so they can become commonplace. No doubt people will falsely credit Apple with inventing the concept, but that doesn't mean the Islate or whatever it's called this week is going to have success, anymore than any other vaporware we might discuss.

But it'll take a lot to beat Apple

All they have to do is be cheaper, which won't be hard.

Re:No iPad for me

[NatasRevol]

The iPhone has printing, so I'm sure it will work on the iPad too.

http://www.eurosmartz.com/

It's not built in, but it can be added. Think of it as installing CUPS.

Re:No iPad for me

[BikeHelmet]

50? Really, 50? That can't be good for anyone of them. Market fragmentation leads to incompatible devices, applications, etc.

50 isn't much. Last year several thousand models of laptop/netbook came out. More choice doesn't seem to have hurt anybody there.

I mean hell, Acer had almost 20 different models of Acer Aspire One 8.9" netbooks - that I know of. Small SSD, bigger SSD, 512MB/1024MB RAM, 80GB/120GB/160GB HDD, big/small battery, etc. etc.

Re:No iPad for me

[Burz]

Think about how many devices have Linux installed on them, and how many ways Linux touches our daily lives.

It makes my devices cheaper and that's about it.

"Linux" does not confer any synergies among the different devices that use it because it is too low-level. Everything that runs on top is not standardized, so people end up with multiple Linux-based gadgets that can't even share information between them. This version of the FOSS/bazaar idea doesn't bestow any real freedoms on end users; rather it maximizes the freedom of designers and engineers at the expense of user convenience.

The above is why Google does not commonly refer to their mobile platform as "Android Linux", as its the "Android" upper-level parts that are crucially important to how the Android devices look, feel and inter-operate for users.

Re:No iPad for me

[thesandtiger]

While I like multitouch, I really care more about a touchscreen that is responsive. What I love about my iPhone is that when I flick, the damn screen moves while I'm doing it, not after a perceptible delay. It drives me crazy when I'm working with something that is a "kinetic" device and yet it doesn't instantly respond - totally takes me out of the intuitive space. I got really excited over Android phones, then used a few different ones and blah - the hardware was shit.

Personally, my problem with the iPad isn't that it's locked (let's face it, it'll be jailbroken with alacrity, and anyone who is bothered by DRM is generally going to also be technically savvy enough to strip it off of anything they buy, or to be able to find things from DRM unencumbered sources), but that it doesn't have a webcam built in. Hopefully there will be a dockable addon webcam. Or, failing that, a clone with the same or better specs (almost certain), the same or better form-factor and styling (unlikely), and at least as good an interface that is appropriately responsive (REALLY unlikely).

Re:No iPad for me

[Bob-o-Matic!]

Actually, Hello.c seems appropriate.

I wonder if the default output for stdio.h for missiles is the fuse?

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

It's for your hairdresser, interior decorator and unpublished trust-fund dilettante who is writing a "novel" while sipping his seventh mochachino.

Actually, my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags.

Charming... Was there really any need for all that homophobia in your post?

Re:No iPad for me

[mdarksbane]

Have you interacted with anyone who wasn't a geek recently? I love what control I have over my computer, too, but the vast majority of users struggle to install something other than internet explorer! They use their computer for facebook, music, word, and porn. The only installers they run personally are pop cap games and malware.

Aside from our nerdy philosophical objections to the idea, the fact that the garden has a wall doesn't matter if it has everything you want or care about inside of it.

I mean, I don't care if you buy an ipad. I'm not touching one and I don't own an iphone. But the amount of complete denial of the state of computing users here amazes me.

Re:No iPad for me

[bill_kress]

The iPad is in no way a computer. It is a large iPod touch. It's a dedicated music listening tool with a browser and the ability to install some programs.

It's a consumer appliance and will make some people very happy.

That doesn't happen to be me :)

But I did finally figure out how to look at it correctly and through that what market they were actually after (and few of those who read this message are in that market)

Re:No iPad for me

[Karlt1]

One criticism of the iPad that I can't really get behind is the price. I'd like to see a cheaper alternative, while still retaining the same horsepower, not to mention a 9.6" IPS panel.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/tablet-makers-rethinking-things-in-wake-of-ipads-low-price.ars

Competing tablet makers are reevaluating their pricing strategy in the wake of Apple's iPad announcement, according to a rumor in the Digitimes. The article cites the usual unnamed sources in claiming that companies like ASUS and MSI had expected Apple's iPad to debut at $1,000, and were planning to undercut that price by 20 to 30 percent with their own, presumably Android-based offerings. But with the iPad base model coming in at $499--the price of a decent netbook--the companies are now going to have to compete on something besides price.

Re:No iPad for me

[Draek]

Just like Microsoft is going bankrupt trying to fight Apple on the desktop front, right? ohh, wait.

Different hardware doesn't imply incompatible software. Chances are all 50 of those will be running Android, and therefore not only will they be compatible among themselves, but with the myriad of phones (by myriad of different manufacturers) too.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why is it that Ma, Pa, Grandma and Grandpa all use Windows?

Re:No iPad for me

[pydev]

Surely the Linux world learned its lesson from the desktop wars, hasn't it?

Yes, the Linux world has: nothing other than Apple will ever satisfy the Apple fanboys. They'll badmouth Linux and complain about it no matter what. And Microsoft will say anything because they know Linux is a big threat to them.

As for the rest of the world, it seems to be standardizing on a couple of Linux distributions and Linux is steadily growing in market share. It innovates (even if Microsoft and Apple copy it and then claim they did it all themselves). And it's everywhere around you even if you don't notice it.

Re:No iPad for me

[jedidiah]

Unfortunately, grandma might want to look at some website or file that isn't compatable with Apple's "walled garden" approach.

Something that doesn't force grandma to conform to Apple's in-house standards will ultimately be less trouble for grandma.

Grandma's device should "just play it".

Re:No iPad for me

[jedidiah]

Before the introduction of the iPad, all of these blathering fanboys would have pointed to the Apple Macintosh as the obvious solution to THAT particular problem. Now that Big Brother Steve has declared a new direction, they have to abandon that idea and feel the need to attack it.

The iPad's inability to play the videos off of of grandma's camera doesn't make it any more secure (or easy).

Re:No iPad for me

[nxtw]

Last year several thousand models of laptop/netbook came out.

Thousands of models shipping with Microsoft Windows XP Home...

Re:No iPad for me

[jedidiah]

You mean like how my Archos can handle most of what I can throw at it but an Apple can only handle Quicktime?

Linux based devices are FAR more likely to support a wide array of data formats and protocols.

Re:No iPad for me

[jedidiah]

> Some of those keyboards will work with Gnome applications, and some will work with KDE applications.

This is funny considering the means to implement something like this probably depend on 25 year old standards.

Thus I can control any app with an IR remote.

Linux may be "fragmented" but it's also modular.

Re:No iPad for me

[nxtw]

My cell phone runs Darwin, which includes BSD code.
My digital camera runs a proprietary embedded operating system.
My router might run Linux, but this is completely hidden from the user.
My desktop and laptop run Mac OS X, which includes substantial BSD code.
My ISP uses routers based on FreeBSD.

I suspect my life is touched by BSD way more than it is by Linux.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

You badly underestimate

Re:No iPad for me

[indiechild]

I generally agree with your assessment on Tablet PCs becoming more popular and so on, but I have to say the iPad doesn't fall into that category at all. It's not a "computer" in the normal sense -- you can't run a desktop operating system on it. It really is a new category of device.

Personally, I have an Eee PC 901 and I hardly ever use it now. I think netbooks and the upcoming nettablets are an unacceptable compromise, with too many shortcomings. We don't just need smaller, lighter, slower and more unergonomic computers. What average consumers really want is something that can perform everyday lifestyle computing tasks, designed from the ground up to be an intuitive and easy-to-use handheld device. Steve Jobs recognised that, and that is what the iPad addresses. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, speak for yourself. I LIKE fascism, and I DON'T WANT to be allowed to do whatever I want with the hardware I buy!

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree totally about the stupidity of the average person. Horrifyingly, nearly 50% of people are even stupider!

I think you're confusing the average with the median.

Re:No iPad for me

[JohnBailey]

I'm thinking that the killer aspect of the iPad is the deal with AT&T. $30/mo for data only? Purchasable/changeable from the iPad itself? No Linux pad is going to get that. AT&T won't give you just a data plan unless you have some serious clout or a hearing disability.

Or a USB dongle?

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite sure that falls under 'distribution', so that would be a definite 'yes'.

Re:No iPad for me

[Totenglocke]

I generally agree with your assessment on Tablet PCs becoming more popular and so on, but I have to say the iPad doesn't fall into that category at all. It's not a "computer" in the normal sense -- you can't run a desktop operating system on it. It really is a new category of device.

Only because Apple won't let you. There's nothing (hardware-wise) keeping the iPad from being just like all the other tablets.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I do technical support full time- I run a company with two businesses divisions in three states. In the one we do technical support for MS Windows, Linux, and Mac. It is just a "computer repair" type of company with branches in three states. I can tell you allot of our customers would be better off with Ubuntu and a sufficient number of them we have been selling Ubuntu & Ubuntu support services to. Allot of people love it. It is faster than MS Windows 7, it isn't a problematic (virus prone), and while it doesn't work for everybody it does work better than MS Windows for most people. The other division is solely a GNU/Linux operation. We develop GNU/Linux solutions for desktop users; providing one source for GNU/Linux hardware, accessories, & support.

Re:No iPad for me

[Karlt1]

Perhaps we could compare to phones instead, you know, the market where Symbian runs on 250 million devices, Windows Mobile runs on 50 million - and Apple are where, remind me? (It's 42 million, for the curious.)

Actually, the iPhone OS runs on 70 Million + devices (iPhone's + iPod Touch).

All of those Windows Mobile devices aren't phones either....

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/en-us/devices/verticals/default.mspx

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Liar.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand, the average tech support call is from somebody who calls tech support more often than the average person.

Nice tautology there

Re:No iPad for me

[windwalkr]

100 devices per developer, not per app.

Re:No iPad for me

[wannabgeek]

You're confusing median with mean... :-)

Re:No iPad for me

[BlueStraggler]

How have you refuted his point? Didn't you just describe the App store? 72,000 star sign apps, all certified to not make you part of a Botnet. Sounds like a win-win for the average computer user.

Re:No iPad for me

[biglig2]

Well, the thing is, Apple have concluded that locking it up tight as a drum is the only way to make it a slick experience, and they figured out with iPhone that more people value that than openness.

Hell, I'm a huge geek, and a PDA/smartphone obsessive from way back, and I agree with them! In the device that runs my life from my shirt pocket I value slickness more than the openness. I have never had a tech device as flat out useful as my iPhone, because it all just works.

Re:No iPad for me

[biglig2]

You do realise that installing a game or astrology app on an iPhone, and hence one supposes on an iPad, is about, oh, two zillion times easier than doing it on a PC?

I just did it now. Took me 30 seconds.

Turn on, App Store, search, star sign. List of dozens, with screen shots and reviews; pick one; confirm password, bought, downloads in the background, done. Apparently I am loyal, romantic, direct and stubborn. Good to know.

I'd say try that on a PC, but I'm worried you might not be running Linux, and I'd feel very guilty if you downloaded a random Windows app you found off Google and it mailed your credit card details to the Mafia.

Re:No iPad for me

[am 2k]

In other words, a thinner, lighter, "keyboardless netbook". And the ability to run everything your desktop does, connect to its network shares, etc etc.

I agree with you in the sense that this is what will happen. The reason is that the hardware developers are like you: completely missing the point of the iPad.

Imagine dragging around windows on a 10" screen using a touch interface so you can see the stuff you're working on. Imagine trying to control emacs using an on-screen touch keyboard. Imagine using applications that were designed for a 24" display at 1920x1200, so you can't see half of the dialog boxes due to their size.

The point of the iPad is not its size or performance, but the way you interact with it. Just try to search on youtube for one-year olds that are using an iPhone to look at pictures etc. There are lots of those videos. And now imagine telling a one-year old boy "to look at the pictures, you have to open the file browser from the menu at the top, locate the directory where those images are stored and switch to thumbnail view".

It's certainly possible to create a Linux tablet in a way that it's just as usable (with some custom programming), but my prediction is that it's not going to happen. That's because the hardware developers don't get it. Additionally, you would lose the ability to run any already existing software anyways.

Re:No iPad for me

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

The iPad is in fact nothing like the products that gave the Macs a reputation for technological elegance and user-friendliness. You didn't have to jailbreak a Mac to make it do the things you wanted it to do.

That's funny. I remember manually tweaking text files to change appearances and installing kernel extensions to modify UI components. It all depends upon what it is you want to do. Most people did not have to hack at their Macs t do what they wanted, but then most people don't hack at their iPhones either because they don't see any need to. The restrictions that bug you, may well not even enter the mind of the average user.

Re:No iPad for me

[biglig2]

Examples, please?

What file is there she will want to look at that won't work? Flash video? Who's left that doesn't offer a HTML5 version for iPhone? How many of those will last a month of complaints about their product not working on iPad before they add one?

Re:No iPad for me

[Hobbes897]

You, my friend, have described what's happened to Vancouver perfectly.

Re:No iPad for me

[aristotle-dude]

Yeah, speak for yourself. I LIKE fascism, and I DON'T WANT to be allowed to do whatever I want with the hardware I buy!

Wow, seriously. If you really want to so much "freedom" to screw up your tablet, either get another tablet and quit your whining or roll up your sleeves to port a linux environment to the iPad. It can be done but don't go crying to Apple when it either breaks your hardware or does not live up to the usability of the iPhone OS. Have you never heard of the KISS principle? No?

Re:No iPad for me

[biglig2]

And boy, those manufacturers loooove netbooks, don't they, with their race to the bottom prices and the way they cut into their consumer laptop market.

I'm repeating myself from below, but if the form factor takes off, it'll be BECAUSE of iPad, not DESPITE it. Tablets have been around for almost a decade without anyone buying them.

Re:No iPad for me

[asamad]

Bzzzzt

Hand in you geek card

Re:No iPad for me

[biglig2]

An exercise for those complaining about lack of a camera in the iPad.

Get something the size and shape of one - a pad of paper or a (closed!) netbook is close enough. Hold it like an iPad for a few minutes; do the sort of things you'd expect to do. Touch the surface, do a pinch to zoom, set it on your knees to type,

Now stop and think about where a camera would be in all of that. What was it pointing at? The ceiling? Up your nose?

Ah, you say, I'd hold it up in front of my face for doing a video call. OK, try that. Feel your arms getting heavier? But maybe it's a short call. OK, the camera's pointing at your face, right? Now turn it to landscape. Camera's pointing at your ear now, isn't it?

Re:No iPad for me

[couchslug]

Same proc, same operating system, no problem and the same benefits of manufacturer diversity we got with X86 PCs.

Re:No iPad for me

[quenda]

I expect most will run Intel's N450 Pinewood, feature about a GB of ram, and use a small factor hard drive.

God, I hope not. I already have a netbook. Give us ARM so it can run for many hours without a heavy battery.
And solid-state storage. (16GB is tonnes - let the library live on the server, or the 'net.) A 7" to 10" touchscreen, GPS, wifi & 3G. (and bluetooth for tethering in countries like the US where an extra 3G SIM is expensive.)
And a choice of competing OSs would be the nice - say MeeGo, Android and an Ubuntu version all competing on the same hardware.

Re:No iPad for me

[c_forq]

Can you please link to a cheaper one? One with a similar size screen? I would really like one, but there seem to be an extreme lack of links or product names in this thread. And according to the Ars article I read a week or so ago no potential competitors were interested in aiming at below $500.

Re:No iPad for me

[thesandtiger]

I have these things now called "hard-back books" that weigh more than an iPad and get held in front of me for hours at an angle the same as an iPad would need to be held to show me on cam if it had a web cam. I'm sorry if you have some kind of degenerative disease that makes it difficult to hold a book in front of you, but not everyone is like that.

Happy to help!

Re:No iPad for me

[yuhong]

Yea, I still remember discussing the "The admin is an idiot" articles:
http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2007/05/08/2470753.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2007/07/06/is-there-a-difference-between-an-administrator-and-a-person-with-an-admin-account.aspx

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

It really depends on what you want from such a device.

Sure - and for me, the iPad has two big downsides:

1. No stylus. If I own something the size and shape of a notepad, I actually want to - you know - take notes on it from time to time. The iPhone multitouch is slick, and great for reading mail, ebooks and the like, but an onscreen keyboard just won't cut it for notetaking.

2. Apple developer lockin. I want to be able to write simple applications and share them with friends without paying large amounts of money to Apple.

If it works for you, that's great. I'm still looking.

Re:No iPad for me

[gig]

> let me install whatever the hell I want on them

It's interesting you say that, because that is one of the major reasons people buy iPhones, iPod touch, and now iPad. They can install whatever the hell they want on them, without having to learn computer science or information technology skills, without having to learn about malware, without having to learn how to kill tasks. They just tap "App Store," find the app they want, click INSTALL and in moments they are using the app. These include many people who have never installed a native Mac or PC app in their whole lives. Who literally do not understand what malware is or why it would be bad or how to watch out for it. For them, the fact that the 3 or 4 iPhone malwares that have been demoed at hacker conferences simply cannot be distributed to users via the Web is a HUGE feature.

So what seems like a downside to you as a tech-savvy user, is the upside for the non-technical user. The restrictions that you feel have taken your power over the computer away from you have enabled the majority of users to experience that power for the very first time.

> I see no reason to be stuck with the programs Apple deems "appropriate" for me.

You're not. There are 2 app platforms on iPhone/iPod/iPad. The other is the best HTML5 environment yet created. Even if you don't use App Store, there are still over 100,000 apps for you to run, built with open API's, downloaded from the developer's server, with an app on the home screen, local storage and offline operation, and completely unmediated by Apple. Even without App Store, iPad is still the leading device in terms of capabilities.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags. She's a tough old bird and member of The Greatest Generation. And when she found out that she couldn't run anything but Apple-approved apps on the iPad, her exact response was "fuck alla that noise".

Since "Grandmas" these days start at about age TWENTY-FOUR, I'm not impressed with your Grandma's ghettospeak.

Re:No iPad for me

[paganizer]

Maybe Palm will get it's corporate head out of it's ass, and make a slightly modified palm TX (2005) with a 10" screen. optionally, Throw in a SLC SSD slot along with the SDHC slot so the user can add as much storage as they want. It would probably be a good idea to put a faster ARM in; the original cab be clocked up to 500Mhz, but faster is always better. maybe make it user replaceable? that would rock...
It would probably be good to upgrade the WiFi from 802.11b. and the bluetooth is only 1.1, but both are understandable in a 2005 device, right?
One thing that would be essential, to me at least, would be the ability to run Palm OS as well as WebOS; WebOS is great, Linux based, but there are Debian builds that will run fine on a Palm TX anyway. and I have hundreds of Palm OS applications.

Realistically, just take stock Palm TX guts and a 10" screen and I'd be a happy camper.

Even more realistically, I know there is almost no possible chance that Palm corporate will do anything sane before they go out of business.

Re:No iPad for me

[that this is not und]

The difference is, and this is what Jobs is counting on, his product will represent a 'walled garden' that content providers will prefer. That is to say, the DRM is what he hopes will 'make' the product. He's counting on the publishers and content providers shying away from any other platform, because they WANT a closed platform to have exclusive rights to their products.

Now, we will see if that is what people want. I remember that proprietary DVD-type player that failed to compete with DVD players.

Re:No iPad for me

[cbhacking]

I don't know what kind of hybernation [sic] you've been using, but I guarantee you that not even a Mac blessed by Steve Jobs himself can come out of hibernation (also known as suspend-to-disk) in less than the amount of time necessary to run POST and then read the RAM image off of the hard disk. Granted, that can be pretty fast, but I strongly suspect you're confusing suspend (to RAM) with hibernate.

I have a tablet computer (convertible laptop) with 4GB of RAM but a painfully slow 1.8" hard disk. It takes bloody ages to come out of hibernate, due to its shitty disk I/O rate, but it comes out of sleep (suspend) instantly (before I have the screen tipped back to the viewable position, it'll be at the login screen). It runs Win7 (x64, not that I expect it matters). My other Win7 laptop is nearly as fast. Hell, I've still got a Windows 2000 box around here that comes out of sleep mode in under two seconds.

It's worth noting that on Windows (Vista and up, not something as outdated as XP), you can use "hybrid sleep" where your data is written to disk just in case, but stays in sleep mode for a few hours before powering off entirely. OS X may do this as well; it's possible that you saw a "hibernated" computer recovering from this state and that led to your misconception about their resume speed.

Re:No iPad for me

[cbhacking]

Off-topic, but that reminds me of a humorous anecdote from a co-worker who's been in the industry for a while: back in the day when cryptography was classified as a munition and export of it was forbidden, there was a special exemption in the law for missiles (I suppose a weapon launched at an enemy country could arguable be called an export). Of course, this restriction annoyed the heck out of open source developers and researchers, who would resort to ridiculous work-around methods like printing all their source code, mailing it (this was apparently legal), and running OCR on it at the other end.

My co-worker's proposed approach was quite appealing: put your source on floppy disks or similar portable storage, attach them to a model rocket, drive to the border of a country with less restrictive laws, and fire them across. Forget the Internet, trade code by solid rocket engine!

Re:No iPad for me

[Totenglocke]

As much as I despise DRM (I've had multiple arguments with employees of different software companies about how DRM is completely unacceptable), I don't see the DRM being the big issue here. I see Apple's policy with the App Store being the main issue and that apps you'll be able to run on it won't really be what people will want to do. I have an iPhone and the overwhelming majority of apps are garbage, and the ones that aren't but are so-so you accept because it's a phone, it's not like it's a big device, so you understand that they'll be inferior. However, since the iPad is so much bigger, I don't see too many people being willing to accept inferior apps when they could spend the same money and get a different tablet (such as HP's Slate) running a full OS that lets them do anything they want.

Re:No iPad for me

[IICV]

It's a new category of computing device just like the toaster was a new category of cooking implement. Sure, it's convenient when you're in a rush or when all you need is toast, but it's far more limited than a stove; if you don't want toast, there's only a few other things you can do with it - but they're all almost impossible to mess up except on purpose. It's totally fine to hand a toaster over to someone you wouldn't trust to boil water, but a person who actually wants to make good food needs a better tool.

(I skipped dinner, can you tell?)

Re:No iPad for me

[GNious]

[..] I've considered getting an Apple laptop, mainly because they really do come out of hybernation instantly

Eh, no they don't - my MB Air w/SSD and 2gig ram takes at least as long as my Dell E6400 with regular HD and 4gig ram to come out of hybernation*. Out of Sleep-mode, the two are about equal.

*: Seems there is no volunteer way to enter Hybernation on OSX - only the forced kind when running very low on power.

Re:No iPad for me

[Count Fenring]

I'm going to assume that you mean that in the rhetorical sense of the word, in which case, you're wrong. It's not a tautology - there is no redundancy. He's saying that the level of intelligence shown by tech support calls is lower than would be average in the population, because less intelligent people call tech support more often.

Re:No iPad for me

[timothy]

Bravo.

Reminds me of the "Travel Agent Sketch" from Monty Python.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcCuBWXd-hc

timothy

Re:No iPad for me

[nuonguy]

I feel the same way. Further, as a mac fanboy, I'm conflicted. I accepted the terms on the the iphone because in addition to the other things the iphone had going for it, it was the most open platform I knew of. Other phone's terms for downloading MY data from MY phone were so infuriatingly insulting that the iphone felt very liberating. But I'm bristling at the thought of not controlling what should be a laptop alternative.

Re:No iPad for me

[debrisslider]

Actually, I do have a degenerative disease in my wrists and I am looking to get a tablet specifically so that I can read again, because it isn't holding the book that is painful, but holding the pages open - at least on non-clothbound paperbacks. Netbook screens are too small and it is really difficult to read at a desk. I have used 15 inch laptops turned on their sides to get the maximum viewing range, but they are bulky and require contorted positions. Something magazine sized, light, and with a simple interface for scrolling and page turning, in full color, with PDF capabilities, would be a godsend.

Re:No iPad for me

[Wovel]

And it will outsell every tablet pc ever produced by the end of the year.. People must really like oddballs.

Re:No iPad for me

[Wovel]

You do realize that the iPhone OS is the third (maybe second?) most popular operating system for developers creating actual applications that people want to pay money for and use...These people you are speaking of would be much happier with an iPad than a Linux based tablet.

Re:No iPad for me

[Wovel]

You can write your own iPhone or iPad apps without permission as well. Can even distribute them to your 100 closest friends.

Re:No iPad for me

[Wovel]

You mean a web site with a developer to lazy to replace an outdated and buggy system that is no longer necessary for anything and removing it will make their site better for all their users no matter what platform they are using. Only flash developers and adobe love flash, which are you?

Re:No iPad for me

[Wovel]

You do realize when most users think of flash, their first thought is..."don't let the door hit you in the ass"

Re:No iPad for me

[Reservoir Penguin]

Average consumers have made netbooks so popular, on the other hand does Apple really carter to average consumers?

Re:No iPad for me

[toriver]

The iPhone/"iTouch"/iPad's lack of Flash support is already making many sites ABANDON Flash, because they are learning they don't need it. They can get what they want to say across using HTML + CSS + Javascript.

Flash is only needed for crap-laggard Internet Explorer which has held web design back by a decade, soon.

Re:No iPad for me

[PopeRatzo]

You can write your own iPhone or iPad apps without permission as well. Can even distribute them to your 100 closest friends.

Can you do it without Apple's appstore?

Re:No iPad for me

[PopeRatzo]

Was there really any need for all that homophobia in your post?

Sorry I offended your tender sensibilities.

Where I come from, "fag" has nothing to do with sexual orientation. If I'd wanted to refer to gays, I would have said "gay" or "queer".

Believe me when I say that most of the fags I know aren't gay. And few of the cocksuckers I know actually suck dicks.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

>Apple makes great stuff. But it's the only device that is unlikely to run anything but the iPhone/iPodTouch/iPad OS.
>It's the only thing you won't be able to use your tether-capable cell phone on.
>It's the only thing that won't allow you to run any app you can download.

And it'll probably be the only one that won't send your bank details complete with CVV2 to Russian
hackers the second you input it.

Oddball indeed.

Re:No iPad for me

[toriver]

Someone is jealous!

Look, it's not as much iPad getting "free publicity", it's EVERY other tablet PC manufacturer doing CRAP ALL to market their devices. Who outside of the people stumbling randomly onto the manufacturer website has even HEARD of the Archos 9 for instance?

You cannot complain about "absurd amounts of hype and free publicity" whan it is the competitor's job to try and at least approach a FRACTION of the effort Apple are making in marketing their products.

"Waah, we are not selling as much as Apple, it's their fault!" No it is not, it is the fault of people making devices with less battery life, no centralized app distribution, and who use the bastard child called Windows for Tablet instead of an OS/GUI specifically written for such devices. And then don't even TRY to sell them to the public.

Re:No iPad for me

[drinkypoo]

And boy, those manufacturers loooove netbooks, don't they, with their race to the bottom prices and the way they cut into their consumer laptop market.

Netbooks don't cut into the notebook market. [Most of] the people looking at buying netbooks wouldn't buy a notebook, they can't afford one or don't want one.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Just put a link in the readme file.

Just don't use Open Source software from Codeplex. You can only fire it through Windows and that would probably burn a hole in your carpet.

Re:No iPad for me

[Professor_UNIX]

I have to say the iPad doesn't fall into that category at all. It's not a "computer" in the normal sense -- you can't run a desktop operating system on it. It really is a new category of device.

The iPad isn't a new category of device, it's an iPod Touch with a 10" screen. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary about the device that hasn't been done before on a previous mobile Apple product.

Re:No iPad for me

[MrHanky]

This is just sooo utter bullshit. The iPad is marketed to college age internet addicts, not to their parents. It's for people who want to lie on their couch and tweet about lying on their coach tweeting. Their grandparents, who may want to use this new-fangled internet banking they've heard so much about, should perhaps buy something which actually supports internet banking -- often dependent on Java.

The iPad isn't meant for non-geeks, and doesn't suit them either. It's meant for fashionable gadget-freaks.

Re:No iPad for me

[Lars T.]

You clearly have not done a lot of tech support. The "average person" deserves treatment only slightly better than being beaten with rubber hoses.

On the other hand, the average tech support call is from somebody who calls tech support more often than the average person.

That doesn't discern between people who don't call tech support because they don't need it and those who do, but can't figure out how to do even that.

Re:No iPad for me

[Lars T.]

Didn't you forget "right click vs. wrong click", or was that advanced tech support?

Re:No iPad for me

[Lars T.]

Why? Can't ma, pa, gram, and gramps just use a Windows XP or Ubuntu or Puppy Linux tablet?

Sure they could - just that they chose not to until now. Are you saying it takes Apple to make people buy them, or will they have to copy Apple again, with all those obvious things it takes to make them sellable?

Re:No iPad for me

[Lars T.]

your doing the classic fail where you think people just want to do email and browse the web. BZZZZZZZT, WRONG.

people want to be able to install that game or little app that tells them their star sign for the day. people don't have to be geeks to want a computer that's not crippled.

Gee, if only Apple had thought of an AppStore of sorts, where you could get things like that.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, my grandma uses Ubuntu on her netbook and thinks Apple is for fags.

Ahh, so she said you should get one.

Re:No iPad for me

[Amorya]

You can distribute to 100 devices without the app store, but you still require a developer licence ($99/year).

Re:No iPad for me

[Cwix]

Its presumptuous to think she wasn't doing that on purpose.

Re:No iPad for me

[bingoUV]

WAAAH!! you are a moron, you won't recognize GPL if it danced naked in front of you. You are not fit to lick the boots of a respectable open source missile professional.

You have to supply the code only if the enemy/unfortunate neighbour asks for it. You could also levy a reasonable charge for the cost of media.

Re:No iPad for me

[bryan1945]

New Apple stuff is always sky-high in price. I forget the actual prices now, but weren't the original iPods and iPhones really, really pricey? I guess it's something akin to the "early adopter tax" phenomena.

Though the iPad might be perfect for my mom. Very tech afraid, though I eventually thought how to browse the web on my Macbook, somewhat. I'll give it a year and see how it's doing.

Re:No iPad for me

[bryan1945]

Sounds like what he saw was waking up from "sleep" mode. I only did a wake up from hibernate once when the power cord got knocked off overnight and the battery drained (I was running some task) to the point where it went into an auto-hibernate mode. Plugged in the cord, hit the space bar, and it took a good 30-some seconds to get going (I didn't time it). But really, I'm not doing real-life Missile Defense, so I can deal with the 30 second wait once every year when I mess up like that! Mmmm, Missile Defense... need to fire up MAME....

Re:No iPad for me

[bingoUV]

Nothing against your argument, but in this case, the AppStore policy is the DRM. I guess the GP meant it this way too. So, content providers here are the Software(App) providers (yet not excluding the real content providers like book/music/video etc). The line between content and software is blurring, especially on the ipad.

Just widen your definition of DRM a bit, and you will see that DRM is very much the issue here too.

The reason why some "content" providers might prefer the walled garden (arguably it is DRM) is that you can't pirate applications* => more revenue. Simple & secure design draws people towards it and creates larger market for content providers => more revenue. Design is simple because there are fewer options. Secure because there are fewer options, and trouble-making apps can be revoked after the fact. RDF also plays its role.

*You can pirate applications if you jail-break but there are definite disadvantages of jail-breaking. Few who do jail-break don't change what I mentioned above.

Your statement about ipad being bigger; is spot on. I don't see how it comes under "portable" devices at all. Most netbooks can be put in a large pocket / very small hand & shoulder bag / ladies purse / man purse. Ipad can only occupy a small subset of the aforementioned abodes. I don't see the hysteria about thickness. Less than an inch, and the other dimensions become very important.

Re:No iPad for me

[natehoy]

As I said, I believe it will be a great device. Just one that's incompatible with everything else out there, even Macs.

That doesn't mean it won't sell well, and it doesn't mean it won't be useful for its intended purpose.

Re:No iPad for me

[MidnightBrewer]

So you're saying that people are going to be willing to buy devices that are heavier and kludgier than the iPad? The netbook market is already having enough problems finding its own niche. Sure it runs the same software, but with a very small screen and very anemic hardware. Now you're going to take away the keyboard, too?

If all iPads run the same OS, and a majority of people buy an iPad, then by default, the iPad OS will become the most common, which means that interoperability with other tablet owners won't be an issue. Windows has shown that all it takes to become a standard is to be on the majority of devices.

The iPad is aggravating to the average computer geek who wants to tinker under the hood and feel like they command their computer's every circuit, but those people are and forever will be in the majority. I don't levy the same expectations against my watch and my DVD player that I do against my computer. the iPad fits in the former category more than the latter, and will come as a great relief to the vast majority of people who want a cool device that actually works the way Hollywood has always portrayed computers on TV. I don't think Apple's going to have any problems moving them, especially to the untapped market of teenagers who want to finally have their own private place in cyberspace with the ease of take-it-anywhere portability.

I'm not a big fan of where the App Store model is going (Apple playing the morality police, among other things), so I sincerely hope something comes out that genuinely challenges it. Create an elegant tablet device that runs a slick interface based on Android or Windows Mobile 7 AND allows people to install whatever they want and Apple's going to either have to open up their software store to the lewder offerings out there or lose market share.

Re:No iPad for me

[edoug]

This misses the point of what Apple's trying to accomplish here (I think). To me, it seems the iPad is aimed at very routine, high frequency activities that happen in the living room (and sometimes when you're out and about) that the current line-up of household tech doesn't address well:

1. When I get home, put down the bags, and settle down to relax, I want to read: iPad.
2. When something strikes me that I want to do a quick search on or read online, if my laptop is still in its bag: iPad.
3. I want to make a recipe I found online, I don't want to get flour on my laptop keyboard, I don't want to waste a sheet of paper, I don't have a lot of counter space: iPad.
4. I'm sitting with the wife and she's watching something I don't care about, so want to listen to music and do some light browsing: iPad.

Q: Why do you think it has a digital photo album mode? A: So it won't look awkward sitting in the living room.

The thing is when I want/need real power, I go to my laptop/desktop/REAL PC. When I'm living the rest of my life, I want to go to something like the iPad. It helps define the boundary, it nails the UI, and its really accessible to the rest of the house.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, this is just my opinion and only applies to myself.

It's my oppinion too, you insensitive clod!

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

remember, we said that about the notebooks, they were all going to run Linux. I just went to my local hardware store. 20 notebooks on display, none of them running Linux.

It seems it's easier starting a new type of device with constrained resources (low memory, etc ...) on Linux. But a year or two later, those constraints have disappeared, no more inovation happens, and hardware manufacturers go back to using Windows.

I've only seen Linux succeed in the mobile world.

By the way, my laptop runs Linux since a few years and I hope I'll never be forced to run Windows again!!!

Re:No iPad for me

[Burz]

Other companies that build portable players are trying to offer an alternative to the iPod, not to clone it. Even so, Linux's apparent versatility fails here...

If I want to download a video from a website, I will probably be given choices that include "Apple/iPod". I know that video will play on any Apple device with video capability. But the user of the Linux device has to memorize a long list of formats that may or may not work either on the player or their PC. And if that video site even wanted to target owners of "Linux" players, what format would they choose?? What phrasing would they choose??

Its an absurd situation.

OTOH, look at email and groupware support. A Linux-based device may have any combination of supported types, but on the poor side. Many will not even support syncing with Gnome and KDE calendars. But I know that an iPhone will sync with a Mac's calendar, and the same goes for PocketPC/Windows.

Why should someone with a "Linux desktop" have to research whether their "Linux phone" will sync their emails, address book and calendar?? Answer: Because the "Linux" moniker is a total red herring as a consumer-facing identifier. It can have no real meaning to typical users. "Linux" qualifies as a platform only to engineers, designers, hackers and dedicated hobbyists.

Re:No iPad for me

[speculatrix]

true, an iphone just works, but then it doesn't actually do that much compared to a real computer!

this is why geeks are buying n900s and android phones, sure they take a bit more effort but are general purpose devices not apple-controlled drones.

Re:No iPad for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Laptops fucking suck now. you can't find a single, i repeat a single manufacturer that makes standard screen laptops that are sturdy and reasonably priced. Everything is widescreen/cheap ass shiny plastic; capitalistic choice my ass.

Re:No iPad for me

[einhverfr]

Gotta love consumer calls. They often give one a laugh....

However, nothing beats the call from the clueless senior network admin.

"Anyway, our NT4 PDC was acting funny, so we reformatted the hard drive and reloaded and now nobody can log into our domain"
"Do you have a BDC?"
"Yes."
"Did you try to promote one?"
"Yes but it didnt work."
"What was the error message?"
"It said something about there being a PDC already on the domain."
"You know that PDC you reloaded?"
"yep"
"turn it off first......"
"Oh wow! Now it's working!"

And here come the pundits...

[jpmorgan]

And here come the pundits declaring every tablet computer to be an iPad clone. Because as we all know, the CrunchPad/JooJoo is such a ripoff of the iPad.

Aren't we so lucky to have Apple around to invent everything for us?

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Henry Ford did not invent the automobile, yet he is often credited for it.

This is because his improvements in the automobile "ecosystem" (fabrication, costs, etc) took the car from a one-off product to the mass market.

iPad = Model T
Every other pad (CrunchPad, DellPad, MS Pad, 50 no-name linux pads) = one-off market

Re:And here come the pundits...

[binarylarry]

I think that remains to be seen.

If you said iPod = Model T, then yeah, that'd be hard to refute.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Still... calling any tablet coming out after the iPad a clone is a bit rich. The word clone implies a duplication on a material level, copying the physical product.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't just compare the Model-T --an innovation in almost all aspects of automotive design and fabrication-- to the iPad --which really isn't much more than a large iPod Touch--, did you? Wow...

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW, I have never heard anyone credit Ford with the invention of the automobile. Modern manufacturing techniques, yes. The automobile, no. I have, OTH, seen Apple take credit for many things they did not invent.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Henry Ford did not invent the automobile, yet he is often credited for it.

I have never, ever, [heard|read|read lips] someone remotely suggesting Henry Ford invented the automobile; I'm sorry but that is a bad analogy.

Anyway, the iPod is a so-so media player, the iPhone is a so-so mobile phone, the iPad... don't know yet.
I don't see any indication it will be above average when compared to similarly-priced devices, though.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mods, the parent isn't insightful. It's a strawman and is clearly flamebait...

Re:And here come the pundits...

[tholomyes]

No, no, every tablet computer after the iPad is an iPad killer...

Re:And here come the pundits...

[david_thornley]

The iPad is not a tablet computer, because it's no more a computer than the iPhone is. The iPad, iPhone, and iPod Touch are appliances that contain a computer, and have most of the commonly-used functionality of a computer. There's a difference.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[commodore64_love]

Well if you're going to give credit for mass production, then I nominate one of these machines: Atari 800, Amiga 500, or Commodore 64. They provided a cheap product (like the Model T), that was loved by the masses (like the Model T), and became the number 3,2, and 1 best-selling computers of all time (like the Model T). They also innovated the very concept of "multimedia" with music, graphics, and video while other machines were displaying boring green or black text and simply went "beep".

I don't see Apple anywhere in that mix. Apples were outrageously expensive, such that the only people who could afford them were schools and/or hobbyists. Really. Who can afford a $4000 machine when there's a $300 C64 sitting right next to it?

Apple can take credit for making the iPod. It wasn't the first digital music player, but it did make it "hip" to flash your wealth around.

That's about it.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

I like how you worked in a mention of the C64 even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. You are a credit to your name, even if a fairly crappy commenter on here.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[nurb432]

Perhaps not invented, but if they opened the market, you can thank Apple for that.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Kleiba]

Henry Ford did not invent the automobile, yet he is often credited for it.

...certainly not in Germany.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[daninbusiness]

Not to be pedantic, but flashing one's wealth around has been in fashion for a very long time (likely since humanity was living in caves). The iPod, perhaps, is one of the devices that really made a piece of consumer tech into mainstream iconic fashion that was popular among a very wide range of people. Probably not the first such device (among transistor radios, cars, televisions, etc) - but probably the defining mp3 player of its generation.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[mdwh2]

I'm astounded at the leaps of logic you people jump through.

Firstly, just because Henry Ford deserves credit doesn't mean that Apple do. That's a non-sequitur.

But even then, your logic is "But this guy got the credit falsely too" - all that just means is two people have wrongly got the credit, it doesn't mean it's therefore okay to falsely give credit to Apple too!

iPad = Model T
Every other pad (CrunchPad, DellPad, MS Pad, 50 no-name linux pads) = one-off market

Claiming that the Ipad will be a Model T is just absurd crystal balling. I'll gladly make a bet that it won't be - but the sad thing is that in years to come, people like you will still be convinced that it was.

And yes, let's just make things up, including over unreleased products. "The Ipad is just a no-name one-off product. The AmigaPad will be the new Model T". See? I can play that game too.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[mdwh2]

Even there though, does being number 1 make that equivalence fair? I mean, can I say "Windows == Model T"? If I said that, there'd be no end of Apple fans crawling out the woodwork, to tell me how Apple did some particular random thing before Microsoft, even though it's Microsoft who dominated that market, whether we like it or not.

What's important, I ask of them - is it inventing it, or being popular? Apple fans love to say it's the former on the occasions that Apple do something first, but the latter in the occasions where Apple are popular. And in the occasions where neither is true (which is most occasions), they'll just go with the latter still, and merely claim that it will become popular (the Ipad), or claim it's number one even when it isn't (the Iphones).

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok seriously you people are too stupid for words.

Henry Ford is remembered as the inventor of the assembly line (something that is still in use TODAY!!!).

Where did you guys go to grade school or did you bother to go?

The iPAD in no way represents *ANY* invention or innovation at all. Especially not to the like of the above.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple opened up the walkman market?!?!?!

Didn't sony do that...

Useless fanbois...

Re:And here come the pundits...

[binarylarry]

ORLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Industry_impact

What's this about, must have been doctored.

There are two time periods with regards to mp3 players: before the iPod and after the iPod.

BTW I despise Apple in general, hate the iPhone, dislike their laptops.

But I'm not a blind moron like yourself.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[binarylarry]

The Model T is still one of the top selling car models ever.

What operating systems come close to Windows 95? Windows XP?

I'm mainly an Ubuntu user, fyi.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[tirefire]

You're the right that the iPod wasn't the first digital music player. However, you've missed the most important detail of the iPod: it was the first digital music player that had a decent user interface.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[Kitkoan]

Henry Ford did not invent the automobile, yet he is often credited for it.

This is because his improvements in the automobile "ecosystem" (fabrication, costs, etc) took the car from a one-off product to the mass market.

iPad = Model T Every other pad (CrunchPad, DellPad, MS Pad, 50 no-name linux pads) = one-off market

Its not for his improvements to the automobile that did it, it's because he sold them cheaply to the public with fighting the old patent for a 'internal combustible engine' that kept all vehicles expensive and away from the general public. He sold each car with a warranty that if the car was proven to violate that patent he would be held liable, not the buyer. In the end he did win since it wasn't an identical copy and that caused newer versions of engines to suddenly be affordable to everyone and no longer the rich, thus 'inventing' the modern vehicle.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[bingoUV]

GP:

iPAD

You:

IPod
But I'm not a blind moron like yourself

Re:And here come the pundits...

[FlyingBishop]

Actually, it's pretty easy to refute. The difference between the iPad and a netbook is basically academic.

The difference between a Model T and what came before it is huge.

Re:And here come the pundits...

[binarylarry]

Good reading are you at

How are these clones?

[ircmaxell]

How are these clones? The iPad was announced what, 2.5 months ago? Doesn't it take significantly longer than that to engineer, design and develop a device to market? So if these were in the works long before the iPad was announced, how can then POSSIBLY be clones? Or is this just successful Apple marketing to instill the idea that if a "Major Player" is first to press (Which the iPad wasn't by the way), all others become imitators? That's like saying that Apple invented the smart phone, or that MS invented the home computer, or that Google invented online document editing and storage...

Re:How are these clones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perception is reality.

Re:How are these clones?

[Dan Ost]

Only in politics and dating.

Re:How are these clones?

[onefriedrice]

How are these clones? The iPad was announced what, 2.5 months ago? Doesn't it take significantly longer than that to engineer, design and develop a device to market?

Not if you can skip the design step.

Re:How are these clones?

[poetmatt]

apple isn't exactly a company with inventive, complicated or unique features. How hard is it to make a computer run if all you're changing is some hardware and a few features?

touchscreen, epub, wifi, did I miss anything? none of those are exceptionally hard to program into any device really.

Oh right, actual clones will probably be able to use bluetooth/make calls/tether/be tethered to, as well. whoops.

Re:How are these clones?

[besalope]

Perception is reality.

And reality is a commodity.

Re:How are these clones?

[Mattsson]

Well. There wasn't much designing to do anyway.
The Ipad had the same design as the Ipod touch and Iphone.
Any "Ipad-clone" can easily have been in the works for a long time before Apple went public with the Ipad. Since it's simply a larger version of the Ipod with an added 3G-modem, it's not a long shot to think that some competitor to Apple already had thought of developing something similar.
The actual electronics inside can even be reused from the smaller device if one wants to press the schedule a bit.

Re:How are these clones?

[NatasRevol]

No, none of those things are hard to program. Yet no one did, until Apple showed them how to do it right.

But those things are hard to program well. And that's what Apple excels at.

Three years after the original iPhone, the competitors are just now catching up to the complete package because Apple designed it - not just programmed it - so much better than anything else out at the time.

Re:How are these clones?

[mdwh2]

Or is this just successful Apple marketing to instill the idea that if a "Major Player" is first to press (Which the iPad wasn't by the way), all others become imitators?

Spot on. (And remember, when people are inevitably in years to come claiming that Apple "popularised" the tablet, we know that (a) it's false, and (b) it's the media who did the popularising.)

That's like saying that Apple invented the smart phone

Heh, don't give them ideas. I've seen people here seriously talking as if Apple having invented the smartphone. (And note that, like the Ipad, Apple weren't first to press here either - not by many years.)

or that MS invented the home computer

Indeed, it's funny how when a company actually is the most popular, the "it's okay to claim they invented or popularised it" doesn't work there.

Re:How are these clones?

[Anonymous Coward]

How are these clones? The iPad was announced what, 2.5 months ago? Doesn't it take significantly longer than that to engineer, design and develop a device to market? So if these were in the works long before the iPad was announced, how can then POSSIBLY be clones? Or is this just successful Apple marketing to instill the idea that if a "Major Player" is first to press (Which the iPad wasn't by the way), all others become imitators? That's like saying that Apple invented the smart phone, or that MS invented the home computer, or that Google invented online document editing and storage...

Maybe it just goes to show that the only person dumber than the average tech support caller is a computer tech reporter.

Re:How are these clones?

[Wovel]

You know what is hard...Making a usable touchscreen interface people like to use.

The first (and in many ways still the only) in the phone market was Apple. (scoff all you want , anyone who believes there was usable touchscreen phone before the iphone is delusional).

to date there has not been a successful device in the tablet form factor because no one has had a usable touch screen interface. I have had the opportunity to try 10-15 models of tablets over the past 5 years (most for more than a week or two) and I can say without any hesitation that every single one of them was worthless.

Re:How are these clones?

[toriver]

I was hoping you would actually name a company other than Apple who has done anything to popularize the tablet, since you state it will be false to say Apple will do so.

My hopes were futile.

Re:How are these clones?

[lucian1900]

From the looks of it, the iPad is a really bad device with horrible ergonomics. Its only saving grace in the market will be the fact that a trendy company is making it. Also, I don't see how "competitors are just now catching up to the complete package". I consider my G1 to be superior from almost every point of view, even more so the Droid/Milestone.

Re:How are these clones?

[poetmatt]

people could do what the iphone could when it came out. What was exactly around for the iphone that wasn't around on others?

symbian already had touchscreen, custom os, etc. It just wasn't as popular.

Cost effective?

[Mekkah]

The eReaders paved the way, but if they drop down in price to say 75 bucks, which is going to be more useful? I'd rather use the book for a Reader, leave my GPS in the car (or use my iPhone) than use this. Very neat product but I think the average person will get a reader if they want a reader, and a netbook & iPhone if they want apps without the monthly cost addition..

I'm sure it will eventually balance out and be useful.

Re:Cost effective?

[Luthair]

I agree, the story seems to complain that the cost of eReaders is comparable to the iPad which is blatantly incorrect, the vast majority of readers come in at half the price of the base iPad. I do hope this results in downward pressure on Amazon and Sony to hit the $99 mark, really 3G, wifi, etc. aren't truly necessary in a reader.

Having said all that, I think ebooks have probably been set back significantly with the recent increase in prices.

Re:Cost effective?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even handheld GPS devices won't disappear. Know why? Because my Garmin could drop from my hand/pocket/wherever, bounce off the concrete, land in a pool of water that's somehow still liquid while it's currently -30 celcius outside, and sit there for a while... and it would still work perfectly when I pick it up again.

On two AA batteries.

Yeah, I don't see the Ipad, or any such device, taking its spot.

Re:Cost effective?

[Starayo]

If these morons think I'm going to trade in a 2 week+ battery life on my reader for a god only knows how short battery life on their crappy pad devices, they've got another thing coming.

Re:Cost effective?

[proxima]

I agree, the story seems to complain that the cost of eReaders is comparable to the iPad which is blatantly incorrect, the vast majority of readers come in at half the price of the base iPad. I do hope this results in downward pressure on Amazon and Sony to hit the $99 mark, really 3G, wifi, etc. aren't truly necessary in a reader.

Necessary? No, but I think they are a huge reason why the Kindle was the first ereader to really take off. Syncing to a computer with a cable is not something most people want to bother with very often; in addition, the 3G purchases promote impulse buying, which seems like a really big deal with books. You're sitting in the airport and your plane is delayed. Ordinarily people went and bought an overpriced newspaper at the newstand or a book from the tiny shop. Now they can buy almost any of the major titles for $8-13 without even gathering up their carryons. Even wifi-only isn't good enough (though it certainly is cheaper), since it precludes people from buying books in the car or most airports with non-free wifi (who wants to pay $6 for wifi for a $10 book?).

That said, we will see $100 ebook readers (I'm surprised Sony hasn't gotten there already). I just don't think they will end up as popular (and no Kindle will ever be without wireless; it's part of the appeal of the Amazon way). My guess is the Kindle hits $199 by the summer, $149 by the holidays. Maybe for the 2011 holiday season we'll see $99 Kindles.

Re:Cost effective?

[Chris Tucker]

"Having said all that, I think ebooks have probably been set back significantly with the recent increase in prices."

Because, as we all know, selling 1 ebook at US$15.00 is far better than selling 10 ebooks at US$5.00 each.

Re:Cost effective?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for you jackass.

But for Mom/Pop/Grandma/Grandpa, they're going to plug it into the charger every night after they're done reading their book.

And there's a lot more of them than you.

And then you'll go buy one in about a year and say you always wanted one, but were waiting for x feature or y price.

Loser.

Software

[gilesjuk]

Unless the software on the Linux devices has been rewritten for a touch interface I don't see why they're worth bothering with.

That's the genius of the iPad, loads of software apps designed for a touch screen interface. Hence why Apple based it on the iPhone not the Mac.

Tablets with desktop OS software suck and have been around for years, failing to catch on due to poor usability.

Re:Software

[ircmaxell]

For at least a few of these tablets, they are equating Linux with Android... So yes, it is designed for a touch screen interface (And multi-touch at that)...

But I do agree that taking something that was designed exclusively for use with a mouse and keyboard and slapping it on something with a touch screen is a recipe for disaster...

Re:Software

[Hatta]

I'd agree with that. If you're not going to use the command line, there's not much point in using Linux anyway.

Re:Software

[repetty]

> That's the genius of the iPad, loads of software apps designed for
> a touch screen interface. Hence why Apple based it on the iPhone
> not the Mac.

None of that matters on Slashdot. It's all about hardware, here.

Re:Software

[Zen Hash]

How about being able to port over existing existing software more easily?

Re:Software

[gmuslera]

Maybe would matter which version/distribution of Linux. Maemo have a lot of software meant for touch devices, and there are tablet/cellphone (i.e. Nokia N900) that exploit it well, while at the same time gives you the old keyboard/mouse interface if you need some app not meant for touchscreen. Having a mouse don't meant that all your apps should be used only by it, and not having a hardware input device don't meant that it can't be emulated by another

Re:Software

[dfghjk]

Love how this is all stated as fact.

If only Android had targeted touch interfaces from the beginning...

Re:Software

[The End Of Days]

That kinda nails why these Slashdot discussions are pure masturbation.

Re:Software

[Anonymous Coward]

"Tablets with desktop OS software suck and have been around for years, failing to catch on due to poor usability."

I own one. They're perfectly usable and caught on where I live.

The problem is, the mass market didn't catch on due to lack of marketing and branding.

Re:Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple made a good decision to base the iPad off of the iPhone. Now if only there was a Linux based phone OS that could be adapted in the same way...
Maybe Google will one day create such an OS in their attempts to compete with Apple in all areas of the market...

Re:Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen android?

Re:Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless the software on the Linux devices has been rewritten for a touch interface I don't see why they're worth bothering with.

Like Android apps perhaps? Yeah, never happen.

Re:Software

[tixxit]

Yes. If only there was some major linux distribution out there, backed and developed by a leading tech company and supported by many huge device manufacturers that was focused on touch devices. A boy can dream, I suppose.

Re:Software

[Anonymous Coward]

'Linux rewritten for a touch interface"?

Like this video from 2006, you mean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx9FgLr9oTk

Try to keep up.

Re:Software

[lucian1900]

The Maemo tablets have been around for years. Also, there are several Android tablets coming out, the most impressive being the Adam tablet. What's so genius about a large iPod Touch?

Forget Linux

[Yvan256]

All I want is a low-cost (100$ max), E-ink (reflective, extremely low-power) PDF reader with an SD memory card slot.

No Web browser
No MP3 player
No Wi-Fi or Bluetooth
No keyboard (touch screen would be nice but at that price I would settle for a gamepad-style interface)

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

They've had those for years ... they're called "printers".

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation: "I want to pay 1/5 the price for 1/100 the functionality. I'm a real economic whiz."

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

So... build it?

Re:Forget Linux

[FencingLion]

No Web browser

No MP3 player

No Wi-Fi or Bluetooth

No keyboard

Lame.

Re:Forget Linux

[i_liek_turtles]

If all you need is that 1/100th, why should you pay the extra 4/5ths?

Re:Forget Linux

[ajiva]

Is $160 close enough?

The SONY eBook Pocket Reader is exactly what you want, but its $160 at Fry's.

Re:Forget Linux

[Yvan256]

Is it true built-in PDF support or does it need to be converted by Windows-only software to a format suitable for the eBook Pocket Reader? And being a Sony product, I assume it's Memory Stick only, or have they come to their senses and started using SD/SDHC like everybody else?

Re:Forget Linux

[timeOday]

Then you should love the iPad, because it will force down prices for dedicated e-readers.

But without a daylight-visible screen, the iPad has no chance of being a good e-reader in itself.

Re:Forget Linux

[Locke2005]

No Web browser Check. E-ink sucks for web browsing
No MP3 player I think listening to music while reading would be nice, but only if I don't have to sacrifice battery life for it.
No Wi-Fi or Bluetooth Bluetooth is useless in an eBook reader. Free WiFi hotspots are pretty ubiquitous now, so having a WiFi for downloading content (especially periodicals and other time-sensitive content) would be a nice feature. Yes, you wouldn't want to leave it on all the time, because it would kill your battery life.
No keyboard No argument from me there. All it needs is a simple, reliable user interface that allows downloading content, selecting content, paging through content, bookmarking, and searching content. For serious educational reading, you would need a touchscreen that allows annotation.

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

But without a daylight-visible screen, the iPad has no chance of being a good e-reader in itself.

Translation: "I have never used an iPhone, so I don't realize how bright the screens Apple is using in their portable devices really is."

Re:Forget Linux

[nurb432]

I want one too, but ill kick in an additional 25 for wifi or bluetooth for transferring stuff without a cable.

( tho i do have a kindle.. but anther cheap device that you don't have to worry about the cost if you break it would be nice )

Re:Forget Linux

[Pyrus.mg]

It's no stick for the $160 to $200 PRS-300, but it will read PDF, CNet says with " limited zoom function". You have to shell out at least $250 for the PRS-600 which gets you Memory stick/SD support.

Re:Forget Linux

[Low Ranked Craig]

Different people have different wants and needs.

I want the opposite. I want all that plus the ability to check e-mail, look at a map, watch a movie, play music, and maybe play a game or two without lugging my laptop for a day trip. I want to be able to dump images from my camera to see if I need to re shoot anything. The list goes on. I don't want to have to carry separate devices for these tasks.

I won't be getting one immediately, but if the iPhone OS 4.0 multitasking rumors turn out to be true I'll get one immediately.

Re:Forget Linux

[AnotherShep]

Wish I had mod points.

Re:Forget Linux

[timeOday]

Translation: "I have never used an iPhone, so I don't realize how bright the screens Apple is using in their portable devices really is."

Trying to out-shine the sun on battery power is a losing strategy, period. Reflective/transflective all the way, baby!

Re:Forget Linux

[Carbaholic]

Thank you, finally someone else who wishes there was a true e-reader on the market

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

He wants an SD card. There is no SD card on Sony eBook Pocket Reader, and it only has 440 MB of internal memory. So the Sony isn't going to work.

Re:Forget Linux

[EnsilZah]

I'd like one too and while not quite as minimal as you've outlined and pricing is not available yet, This seems pretty close to what I want.

Re:Forget Linux

[imfeldma]

You may want to try an XO (http://www.laptop.org). The screen is made to be readable under extreme lighting conditions, it's fairly cheap and flips into pretty much what you want.

Re:Forget Linux

[dogmatixpsych]

I have no problem reading books on my iPod Touch out in broad daylight. I might have to tip it a bit but I can still read it in the daylight. I'll take the nice bright color screen over that of an ebook any day (e-ink is nice but I still prefer the color LCD screen).

Re:Forget Linux

[arose]

E-ink (reflective, extremely low-power)

There are LCDs that are basically indistinguishable from e-ink (they mainly lack the refresh flicker), but for some reason no-one is talking about them. I guess major improvements in existing tech are not sexy enough.

Re:Forget Linux

[Lockblade]

It doesn't need a conversion. It has internal storage and uses SDHC and Memory Stick for storage expansion. When plugged in, it acts like any normal thumbdrive, so there's no extra software you need unless you want to use Sony's store. It also is one of the few readers that supports EPUB.

Re:Forget Linux

[biglig2]

As a happy Sony user, let me explain the limited zoom thing. Not really their fault: since PDFs are typically designed for turning into paper, they have a lot of white space around the text, so often if they display it full screen the text gets too small.

(it does show the PDF very well, BTW, so if it doesn't have big margins you're fine. And see below.)

Now, they can't easily zoom in to cut out the margins because that needs horsepower the devices don't have, to figure out where the margins are (especially with page numbers).

So what they do instead is, if you hit the zoom button while in a PDF, is extract the text from the PDF and display that instead. Which works, but they can't reflow it easily, again because PDF is designed for text.

(This is below: There's a third alternative in Calibre (open source software for converting/loading books on the device, ugly as sin but a million times better than what gets bundled with the reader) which is to use the PC's horsepower to trim off the margins before syncing it. Calibre plays nice with Stanza on iPhone too, so I reckon geeks switching to iPad from an existing ebook reader are going to keep using it no matter how fancy iBookStore is!)

So where I have a choice, I always get books in EPub, which refactors and flows and zooms beautifully, but just dropping a PDF file onto the SD card in my PRS-505 works. It's not as nice, but it works.

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, but if you've never owned an e-ink device, you'd be disappointed in its responsiveness and its lower light readability. I guess for $100 you couldn't complain too much, but technical PDFs need more processing power than these little devices have. They also need to be formatted to be readable often. A 8x11 page looks very small on a 5 inch screen. /2 cents

Re:Forget Linux

[troll8901]

Don't understand the joke. Care to explain?

Re:Forget Linux

[Hamsterdan]

I use those on mine, and can use it in the sun

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.27882

I hate glossy screens...

Re:Forget Linux

[sessamoid]

Don't understand the joke. Care to explain?

The post is parodying the now-famous (here, at least) Slashdot article commentary posted by none other than CmdrTaco about the introduction of Apple's iPod: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Re:Forget Linux

[acheron12]

The iPad screen is larger than 5" though. Sony's Pocket Reader is alright for novels but not for journal articles or other large format PDFs.

Re:Forget Linux

[Christopher Fritz]

With one of Sony's pocket readers, you'd been looking at PDF format, ePub format, and BBeB Book format with and without DRM supported, as well as RTF and HTML natively supported. HTML format would require conversion, and Word documents require having Word installed to convert.

I don't know if there are any memory expansion slots in the Pocket Reader. For $100 more, their Reader Touch supports Memory Stick and SD Cards. Likewise their Reader Daily (for another $100 more).

I don't own any Sony readers. I just checked their web site while researching e-readers previously.

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

The SONY eBook Pocket Reader is exactly what you want

Have you actually tried it? This thing is horrible for reading PDFs, not only the screen resolution doesn't fit an "A4" PDF page, but zooming makes tables, figures and listings loose their formating and become unreadable.
I bought one for reading PDFs, but I had to return it and I'm now waiting for the iPad, because my experience reading documents on my iPhone is way better than any e-Ink device I ever tried.

Re:Forget Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you also want a phone thats just a phone, eh grandpa

But what books?

[OFnow]

The key is going to be how easy it is to buy and download books.
Kindle gets this right.

And of course how many books are available.
Kindle has a ways to go, though Amazon tries.

Re:But what books?

[$1uck]

I'm thinking most book sellers will write/sell apps that allow you to download/buy and read their e-books. I'm fairly certain there a several android apps to do just this out or in the works.

Re:But what books?

[NatasRevol]

Does this answer your question?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000301301

Re:But what books?

[OFnow]

Uhhh... Missing my point. Kindle downloads through cell phone facilities, bundled by Amazon,
so Kindle allows browsing and buying anywhere you have a signal.
No signup, just buy a Kindle and it's connected. It's called
Whispernet (by Amazon) and just works. Wonderful for impulse buying.

So will these Ipad clones be that way? Or will they use only WiFi? Or use
Your cell-phone facilities (on your nickel)? I'll bet not like Kindle.

Re:But what books?

[R3d M3rcury]

You would think so, wouldn't you? But, nope, Apple won't allow you to do this. That is, unless Apple also gets to distribute it through their store (and take the 30% off the top of the sale).

If you use the Kindle App for the iPhone, for example, you can't buy a book via the Kindle App. You have to use Safari and buy the book. Then you can go to your Kindle App and download it.

What I'm curious about is what is Apple going to do with all those "book apps" in the "Books" section of the App Store? Apple is currently getting rid of "cookie-cutter" Apps (ie, the same App with different content) which describes book apps perfectly. So when the iBookstore comes out, will we see a bunch of Apps go bye-bye because (a) they're cookie-cutter Apps and (b) they compete with Apple's offerings?

Hardware clones - yes. Clones .. no

[OzPeter]

I was reading on Macrumors today about the data plan pricing structure. $15/mo for 250MB or $30/mo for unlimited. With NO CONTRACT .. all month to month and you can stop and start on a monthly basis at will, and upgrade/downgrade as you choose.

So I can see the hardware clones coming out of the woodwork, but it is going to take some serious corporate muscle to iron out similar data plans deals like that.

I still want a keyboard

[MichaelSmith]

I have an eeepc 701. Yeah I know the screen is small, but I run ubuntu on it and I get a lot of coding done on the tram with it. I want a keyboard but I could do without the track pad if I had a touch screen instead.

BTW has anybody else in Australia noticed the little linux based netbook in JB? I saw it last week. Screen size seems about the same as the 701. Its ~250 bucks or so.

Re:I still want a keyboard

[edelbrp]

There's an accessory that is a dock/keyboard for the iPad. Actually I thought it was clever to have a way to both prop up the iPad and have a real keyboard at the same time.

DRM

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

On top of that, Apple will be including DRM on some eBooks and other iPad content.

Wait what? You won't buy devices that companies can sell DRM'd content on? I can see not buying devices where the only content is DRM'd, but devices that support both free and DRM'd formats give me more choices, not fewer. I'm not buying an iPad because I don't fit the target market and it would be pretty useless for me, but your DRM reasoning baffles me.

Re:DRM

[Luthair]

Its Apple, we know everything they can will be locked down until they're dragged kicking and screaming into the open. See their lack of movement on open music until Amazon & co. got involved.

Re:DRM

[davester666]

That reasoning excludes all kinds of things like: DVD's and all DVD players [sure they play non-DRMed DVD's, but they have support for DRM, so they're bad], the Kindle and most other e-book readers, as most of the mainstream ones have support for epub 'books' that have DRM, PDF's [as they support DRM], VCR's [macrovision], anything that connects between your cable outlet and your TV that supports HD content, and your HDTV.

Avoiding buying ebooks from iTunes to put on your iPad is a reasonable argument. But not buying a device because it has support for both drm'ed and non-drm'ed content is well, kinda crazy.

Re:DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

http://xkcd.com/488/

Re:DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

No, DRM always restricts what you can do.

Because DRM is inherently circumventable, you must have your choice of software and hardware features limited. That means no Firewire port, no third-party PDF readers, SD cards (implementing CPRM) for storage, and apparently no third-party web-browsers.

For DRM to be effective you essentially have to be using a console instead of a "general purpose" computer.

Re:DRM

[mdarksbane]

I'd also like to see the ebook store that doesn't have DRM'd content. There's plenty of free content if you like commons stuff, and a few individual publishers sell their own things.. but a mainstream, bookstore-like experience? Nada.

Look, I hate it, too, but it's not an ipad specific fault.

Re:DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see not buying devices where the only content is DRM'd, but devices that support both free and DRM'd formats give me more choices, not fewer.

I can see not living in a neighbourhood where the only residents are crack gangs, but neighbourhoods with both honest citizens and crack gangs give me more diversity in my neighbourhood, not less.

If your objection to DRM is having a company retain control of your purchased device, you don't want it there at all. Intelligent people may disagree but you'd have to be a fucking moron not to understand.

I hear the kindle is very good as an e-reader. I won't be getting one because the have the capability of deleting books. Any company that has the ability to edit, delete or restrict in any other way books on devices after they sell them won't be selling me one. There is no guarantee that they can't do it to the "non-DRM'd" books as well since they control the device. I am not a fanatic, however, and do have a PS2 and dvd drives that support region encoding. Books are more important to me than games and movies though, and I won't be making the same concession.

Re:DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

Following your logic, you must also be bisexual. I mean why restrict yourself when you can have sex with women and men? And it shouldn't be unfamiliar since using DRM ladened crap is like taking it up the ass anyhow.

Re:DRM

[tonycole]

As a point of interest, almost all eReaders out there, and there are now dozens of different models (not just Kindle and Sony!!!!), most of which are versatile, well made devices support any format you want, either protected or not, as well as hundreds of online bookshops and dealers in eReaders. Things like the iPad are not eReaders, they are simply computers, no more, no less, and I don't believe for a minute they will kill real eReaders with e-Paper and e-ink. The whole reading experience is different. Some people are happy reading books on back-lit screens, but most are not. it is comparing apples and pears. (no pun intended!). There is surely room out there for both devices, why does everything have to do everything? I dont ask my car to be an efficient plane after all.

2010

[Kell Bengal]

2010: Year of the Linux Deskt- er... Lapt- wait... no.. er... palmt-... no no... hmm.

'Tabletop'?

Re:2010

[Jorl17]

Just call it 'Failure' or, as us idiots say: EPOCH FAILZ0RZ.

Re:2010

[PolygamousRanchKid]

'Tabletop'?

Not quite, try 'tank top': http://www.cafepress.com/+linux_tangram_store_womens_tank_top,31557855

This will definitely improve the optical situation in the cubicle cities. A great gift for geeks for their girlfriends that they don't have.

Re:2010

[roman_mir]

Linux on Carrot Top.

Re:2010

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. People who preach that Linux is the Second Coming, immune to the effects and risks of bad design, market forces, competition, buyer apathy and the other slings and arrows of commercial product fortune are knuckleheads. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is high on the list because that's how he makes his rent. Don't get me wrong. Linux is great (although I don't use it), but Linux cannot be used in vacuo, only via hardware, and Apple is the only hardware source that is as classy as Linux acolytes like Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols say Linux is. What I see from Linux hardware is an endless stream of crap with too many buttons and too much shiny and flames painted on the side. Linux hardware is lame.

Re:2010

[pablo_mccombs]

couchtop

Check List

[WrongSizeGlass]

* Can it multi-task?
* Does it have a camera?
* Is it free of the Apple Empire?

I guess not everything is about the technology. The content is important, too. And Apple has a head start on everyone else in that department. Remember, it's not always the best technology that survives the marketplace.

Perhaps Linux can get a better foothold in the tablet market than it has in the desktop arena. That would eventually translate to better desktop penetration.

Re:Check List

[Duradin]

"Perhaps Linux can get a better foothold in the tablet market than it has in the desktop arena."

Not very likely. Given the restrictions of the tablet form factor UI is even more important than it is on desktops or laptops. Sure linux is free and all that but you tend to have to have a gun to a linux developer's head to get him to spend time on polishing the UI.

Re:Check List

[Anonymous Coward]

Not very likely. Given the restrictions of the tablet form factor UI is even more important than it is on desktops or laptops. Sure linux is free and all that but you tend to have to have a gun to a linux developer's head to get him to spend time on polishing the UI.

Hmmm. Or dangle a bunch of money in front of said head.

Clearly manufacturers are jumping on the tablet bandwagon, and those same manufacturers know that desktop Linux's less than polished interface won't sell too well. I'm sure they'll be willing to spend bucks polishing Linux, since they don't have to buy the OS to begin with. Especially if it means doubling their sales, or more.

Re:Check List

[ultrabot]

Sure linux is free and all that but you tend to have to have a gun to a linux developer's head to get him to spend time on polishing the UI.

We have people paid to do that, you know. No weapon needed.

Re:Check List

[ultrabot]

I'm sure they'll be willing to spend bucks polishing Linux, since they don't have to buy the OS to begin with. Especially if it means doubling their sales, or more.

It's impossible to buy iPad OS in the first place. What you can do is

- Ship Android (Linux kernel, rest is Googlestuff)
- Ship Moblin (real Linux, will turn to MeeGo)
- Wait for MeeGo/ChromeOS (real Linux)
- Ship Windows CE

Re:Check List

[tclgeek]

Not only is it not about the technology, it's only partly about the content. What it's really about is the _experience_, which Apple has come closer to nailing than anyone.

Re:Check List

[kiddygrinder]

microsoft will prolly just come out with a cheaper tablet version of windows 7 and throw money at the manufacturers till they bundle it instead

Re:Check List

[Pyrus.mg]

That's a good strategy, mercenary karate thugs would be much less hassle when going through airport security for developer conferences.

Re:Check List

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple does not have a head start on content. Not unless you're excluding touchscreen netbooks from the market. I'm talking about my EEE-PC T91 that I bought last year before there were even rumors of an iPad. Since I can fold the keyboard under the screen, I figure I can count it as a tablet.

Speaking of head starts, I'm running a couple of games on it that were written when the latest and greatest thing from Apple was the Macintosh. (Point-and-click adventures. Ah, nostalgia) And for every app you can purchase and download for the iPad, I can download 50 different freeware equivalents for my "iPad clone."

Plus, since mine has a real keyboard, I can download apps that would make iPad users jealous. I already have a gigantic ebook library collected over the course of 15 years (with no DRM whatsoever), I can surf the web with my choice of browser (Firefox), I can watch YouTube videos, I can write an email 10 times faster than anyone could on an iPad (or an entire novel if I so choose), I can attach an external mouse for those programs that don't work so well with a touchscreen interface, and I can back up all my data to my desktop computer just by copying it to an external SD card.

And it cost me exactly the same price as an iPad.

What advantages does an iPad have? Slightly less weight, slightly longer battery life. That's all.

You're right that not always does the best technology win. I'm sure Apple will prove that by selling many more iPads than Asus sold T-91's. It's all about the marketing, and apple has an amazing marketing division.

(How else would you explain that I also have an MP3 player that cost a fraction of an equivalent iPod, yet has more features. That's a story for another day, though)

If it sounds like I'm saying "my tablet is better than yours," well, to all the iPad users, my tablet is better than yours. Since it's impossible to translate gestures into words, imagine that I'm pointing a finger at every single person who buys an iPad and giving them a Nelson-like "HA HA!"

Re:Check List

[biglig2]

I don't think you should call ChromeOS real Linux. I mean, I know it is Linux, but since you can't install ANYTHING on it...

(And yes, I know that if you install ChromiumOS yourself you can get to a shell, and you can install software on it, and Hexxeh is really, really clever and I have no doubt he will figure out a way to get an app launcher in there somehow, but I can't see hardware companies preferring that to installing genuine ChromeOS and getting all that lovely Google branding.)

Needed competition

[TwiztidK]

I think that if there really are as many iPad competitors as the article suggests that it could possibly do a lot to improve the iPad. If most consumers really want an open application marketplace and they show it with their wallets, Apple may be forced to loosen up their control over the App Store.

..just like Linux took over the desktop?

[trevc]

Linux will take over the Pad market just like it took over the desktop ? 50 different models, all incompatible with each other, each with a different UI and the user has to compile the app for their version to get it to run....if they can get the right version of the source and the right compile flags...

Re:..just like Linux took over the desktop?

[Anonymous Coward]

But thats the beauty of "Open Source". Isn't it?

I can download the latest version of an app's source at Star Bucks, and then spend the next hour on the training compiling it. Perhaps on my ride home I can actually spend the time debugging why it doesn't work right by digging into the code and fixing it (because everyone using linux is capable of modifying source code).

do everything they can do and far more.

[wiredog]

Except run for more than a day without charging. Oh, and be read in full sunlight.

Re:do everything they can do and far more.

[Anonymous Coward]

you want the NotionInk Adam - http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/notion-ink-adam-hands-on-with-video-at-mwc-2010/

ergh

[nomadic]

For the same price as a high-end dedicated device you can get a tablet that will do everything they can do and far more.

No you don't; why are there people that just can't understand that to some of us an e-ink screen provides a superior reading experience to a glowing one?

Re:ergh

[Anonymous Coward]

Also (and related): battery life. Get an iPad, watch it run out of power partway through your flight. Get an eBook reader, watch it run out of power a couple of weeks later.

I bought an eBook reader because I wanted to read, and loaded it with a million books to save me the hassle of copying books on and off it. Same as I bought an iPod to listen to music, and loaded it with my entire collection to save me the hassle of copying music on and off it. Both have batteries that last forever, not least because they're optimised for what I bought them to do, and both have made travelling -- which I do a lot in my job -- much more pleasant. Sure, an iPad does both at the same time, but it does neither as well -- which, for me personally, would defeat the point. Others, I have absolutely no doubt, will have a perfect use for the iPad and other tablets. But trying to flog it to me as an eBook reader, even as one that does "far more" than my current one... nah.

Re:ergh

[Ma8thew]

So you're reading Slashdot on one right now?

Re:ergh

[boristhespider]

Didn't mean to post that Anonymous Coward. That was me. Though why you'd care that a meaningless pseudonym posted it rather than an anonymous pseudonym, I don't know.

Re:ergh

[Man On Pink Corner]

Mod parent +1 Insightful.

There's nothing funnier than an e-Ink fan posting "Waaaaah, people will never want to read from an LCD all day long" arguments from his 30" LCD, in front of which he will remain all day, reading.

Re:ergh

[nomadic]

No, I'm using an inferior LCD screen instead.

Re:ergh

[Anonymous Coward]

boristhespider wrote:

Didn't mean to post that Anonymous Coward. That was me. Though why you'd care that a meaningless pseudonym posted it rather than an anonymous pseudonym, I don't know.

Whoooo are you? Who who, who who? I really want to know!

Re:ergh

[RapmasterT]

"Also (and related): battery life. Get an iPad, watch it run out of power partway through your flight. Get an eBook reader, watch it run out of power a couple of weeks later."

How far are you flying? I regularly watch movies on my iphone while flying and have yet to run out of battery mid flight. So battery life has not been an issue in the slightest for me.

Now get an FAA exemption from the stupid "electronic device" ban for ebook readers and THEN you have a serious win.

Re:ergh

[Anonymous Coward]

You know there's such a thing as an "outside", where light levels vary dramatically over a 24 hour period? LCDs work best with indoor lighting and a steady power supply, and they do a damn fine job at it. E-ink is for when you don't have those available. Stop trying to hammer round pegs into square holes.

Re:ergh

[snspdaarf]

'Cause we're Who fans?

Re:ergh

[hey!]

I have a kindle and I sometimes use the kindle reader on an iPod Touch. There are situations where the Amazon reader on the iTouch blows away the kindle 2.

It's not a simple matter. The user experience is a mixture of many different elements. The clearest, biggest win for the hardware Kindle is the trade-off it achieves between screen size, battery life, and size/weight.

There are other situations where having a pocketable reader that works in low light is a huge win.

Then there are things that specific implementations of e-Ink based readers happent to get wrong or which are missing because of the designers didn't think a reader needed them. The touch screen and the availability of a usable keyboard is a *huge* win for the iPod. The superiority direct manipulation interface for page turning is almost impossible to overstate. I hate the huge click that accompanies page turning on the Kindle. The iPod also wins in terms of the accuracy of rendering. Math and technical books that are nearly useless on the Kindle are quite usable on the iPod, despite its small size. You can't even read most diagrams on the Kindle. I presume that's lousy software.

Re:ergh

[nomadic]

Only I never said that people will NEVER read from an LCD all day long. I said e-ink provides a superior reading experience. Do you really not see a difference between those two arguments?

Re:ergh

[Ma8thew]

It's not inferior for web pages though is it? From what I've heard the Kindle's web browser is rubbish.

Re:ergh

[arkenian]

There's nothing funnier than an e-Ink fan posting "Waaaaah, people will never want to read from an LCD all day long" arguments from his 30" LCD, in front of which he will remain all day, reading.

For which precise reason, when I get done with the 'business' (and/or gaming) portion of my day, I want to STOP reading from one.

Re:ergh

[tool462]

Because they've never left their basement?

Re:ergh

[Anonymous Coward]

I have both. E-ink does not provide a superior reading experience. E-ink provides a superior reading experience in bright sunlight.

In low-light conditions, such as reading in bed with the lamp dimmed, I prefer LCD. Actually, I prefer LCD under any artificial light.

I bought an ebook reader for long trips (battery life) and for when I have a few minutes to spare and don't want to spend the time booting my netbook.

Re:ergh

[nomadic]

Actually not sure, I have a kindle but I've never tried using it as a general purpose browser, though I would presumethe LCD is better for web pages. I was mostly kidding, and trying to poke fun at the notion that because I use a screen for one purpose my preference for e-ink when reading novels is somehow hypocritical or incongruous or something.

Re:ergh

[cbhacking]

He could be. They don't market it for the purpose, but you can browse the web on the Kindle. It has a full keyboard too, not large or terribly easy to type on but I'd take it over a touch-screen keyboard that covers much of the viewable area.

Re:ergh

[boristhespider]

Isn't everyone??

Re:ergh

[boristhespider]

It's the convenience of it -- I turn up at the airport, read till the flight, then read on the flight. Even if the flight's only 90 minutes or so, that's a good few hours. But I can still read it without needing to recharge on the way to the airport too, and from the airport, and at the hotel that evening and so on and so forth. Whereas I imagine that a couple of films on your iPhone would drain the battery?

Not knocking it, but if I want to watch a film I'm happy to get my laptop out, which can also take a couple of films before the battery conks out, but I'd rather not have to constantly recharge my book (or MP3 player).

Just the convenience, really. Flame wars over how to read books have to be the most pathetic thing in years...

And I hear you on the "electronic device" thing. There's no point arguing with the stewardesses when they tell you to turn it off but for fuck's sake, what do you think it can *do*? It's a book. It's not even got WiFi, it's an older-generation Sony.

Re:ergh

[Man On Pink Corner]

How much time do you spend reading in the sun? I was always told not to do that as a kid (although I never understood why) so I never picked up the habit.

Under any circumstances other than direct sunlight, reading from an iPhone display is not a problem. If Apple uses the same LCD+backlight tech on the iPad it'll be fine for almost everyone.

Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[Brian Stretch]

I can read off my Kindle's e-ink screen with considerably less eye strain than reading off a backlit LCD. Backlights are hard on your eyes.

Some tips: sit ~3 feet away from your monitor, turn the backlight down as low as you can without it becoming counterproductive (wanting to lean forward to view the dim screen is bad), look away every once in a while so your eyes aren't fixed on the same close distance for long periods. For more serious problems you may need vision therapy like I did. I thought I had ADD until I figured that out. Oh, that's why I had so much trouble with reading and why my vision got blurry after marathon gaming sessions...

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So you reading this on your Kindle then?

I have a Kindle 2 and I like it and all but I find the back lit displays cause serious eyestrain to be a bit over hyped. Actually way over hyped. I read like probably something like 12 hours a day on a back lit LCD between work and home and that works out just fine. Back lit LCD displays are, get this, bright and easy to read otherwise these computer gadgets would be a lot less useful. Some people say well when you read on your computer that it's different somehow but I don't see how it's different at all. If you write code for a living you stare at these things all day. Now I could see the argument that I stare at an LCD all day at work I don't want to look at one when I get home. That's fair, but this my eyes will bleed if I read on a back lit LCD hype is just bunk.

The real advantage of the Kindle type device is the form factor which is more appropriate for sitting in an easy chair and reading and also the great battery life that comes from e-ink.

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[rolfwind]

I owned a 6" Kindle 2 for a while. E-ink has promise, but it's vastly overrated right now imo. I used to think e-ink was all that before getting one. The major problem I had with the Kindle 2 was contrast. It was black and white. It was dark grey on medium/light grey/beige. Yuck. I really hated it. Same with the Sony PRS reader I saw.

The nice thing with the iPad is that it has a IPS screen rather than a run-of-the-mill screen (nice), but on top of that, an ambient light sensor, which imho is what is missing on most desktop monitors. I hate looking at monitors where they don't match the surrounding rooms light level in any way, the worst for me is being on a computer in a pitch black room (which may be why movie theater also leaves the light on dimmed during a movie and not shut them off completely).

After that point, what is the different if the screen is backlit or reflective like e-ink? Either way, photons hit your eyes either originating from or reflecting off that surface. Even with a ambient sensor, I wouldn't be on a computer in a completely darkened room, but then again, you couldn't read the e-ink screen in such a scenario either. Now, if would be nice if it were an OLED screen too, where the blacks aren't dark grey and the contrast was through the roof - but I guess we'll have to wait.

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's a little bit strange how often the e-ink screen is downplayed in the tech-press. The principle functionality of the kindle is the e-ink screen, not library portability. Otherwise I'd still be reading old-school off my DS with the backlight tuned down down down (to goblin town). That said, some people don't delve into books for greater than an hour at a time, so there's no reason an lcd wouldn't work out for them. And some people program for 12-hour stretches and couldn't care less if their eyeball-fluids be a-boiling. But some of us read in 3-plus hour chunks, occasionally outside under the sun, and with the Kindle it's like God descended and deep-tissue-rubbed aloe on our corneas (and everywhere else we told Him to).

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[wild_berry]

My eyes hurt too if the brightness in the screen is above 15%, and most of the time the brightness is at 80+%. My HTC Hero adjusts the brightness automatically, and does a good job of being legible in sunlight and darkness.

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, I just realized my monitor had different brightness profiles, it's set to "Text" now, and is much more relaxing on my eyes!

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[Anonymous Coward]

I find people complaining about LCDs for reading hilarious. I mean seriously that's what was being advertised when LCDs first came out against CRTs

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[moonbender]

Many LCD backlights are still really bright on the lowest settings. I can imagine that a pure white would still be brighter than the reflected light from a paper page when you're using a low powered reading light. I usually set the font to be light gray on black when reading very long text/books on an LCD. Reading from LCDs also often involves staring at the screen in dark ambient light conditions which invites eye strain. I suppose when you're in bed reading a book on the iPad it'd be a good idea to turn on the bedside lamp because of this.

Re:Only if screens are as eye-friendly as Kindle's

[toddestan]

Well to be fair, that was an issue, but most people were complaining about the size and battery life of the CRT-based eReaders.

Why will people buy iPads?

[Locke2005]

Are any of those Linux based tablets compatible with the Apple App Store? It's apps that sell hardware, not operating system awesomeness. For geeks that want to micromanage everything their tablet does, a Linux tablet is a better choice. For everyone else, "theirs an app for that" is a better choice. Plus, if you're a geek that wants versatility, wouldn't you be better off with a netbook running Linux? Touchscreen keyboards just slow computer geeks down.

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[ultrabot]

It's apps that sell hardware, not operating system awesomeness.

Funny, I thought a cheap device with a good browser would land a purchase or two.

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[Locke2005]

In that case, it is web pages that the browser will display that sells hardware. For most people, a computing device isn't an end in itself, it is a means of accessing content. When the Android app store becomes as well stocked and diverse as the Apple app store, then Android based devices will be a better choice (provided they don't muck it up with incompatibility issues.) It is going to take a few years for the Linux touchscreen software to get to a point where it is competitive. In the meantime, Apple might fix at least some of the mistakes it has made with the iPhone/iPad, e.g. having all apps support multitasking, fixing Flash support, and yes, including a decent browser.

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[Zen Hash]

Plus, if you're a geek that wants versatility, wouldn't you be better off with a netbook running Linux? Touchscreen keyboards just slow computer geeks down.

There are linux tablets with sliding hardware keyboards. Much easier to carry around in your pocket than a netbook.

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[cynyr]

All of the apps I care about on my mobile platform have either been rejected by apple/ATT, are not available, or just not unique enough for them to be stuck to the iPhone.

A short list off the top of my head; a terminal with SSH/bash, a IM client capable of connecting to just about everything(pidgin/empathy), VNC/rdesktop/X11 forwarding, webbrowser with flash that supports doing things like running a flash app(pandora/lastFM) in the background while doing other browsing.

The thing really killing the iPad for me is the lack of multitasking. If i have a device to read ebooks on, that can also play music I expect to do both at the same time. I also expect it to not care about bandwidth hungry apps when on wifi and even to some extent on 3G. I can manage my bandwidth pretty well on my own thanks.

For me the linux tablet isn't so much about micromanaging what it does, but the fact that I'm looking for a couch browsing device that can then also connect to my desktop/HTPC and let me do stuff to it. Boxee/XBMC/mythtv remote anyone(even better if it's easy to add an IR LED to it so it can control other things too)?

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[Yvan256]

Flash has never crashed my iPhone, or my wife's, but it causes all kinds of trouble on my Mac.

Assuming Safari: Preferences -> Security ->Enable plug-ins (uncheck) That way, Flash can't crash your computer either. Enable YouTube HTML5 support and you're good to go.

Re:Why will people buy iPads?

[Requiem18th]

Yes but they lack important usability features like featuring a gray logo of a bitten fruit in the back.

GPS devices

[Iphtashu Fitz]

Sorry, but I reject the notion that things like iPads, iPhones, etc. will replace GPS devices. A dedicated GPS from a company like Garmin is much better at what it does than a smartphone. Try using your iPhone's GPS to map your location when you're in an area with no cell coverage. It won't be able to download the map data, so you're screwed. Smartphones also try to speed up GPS triangulation by downloading ephemeris data over the cell network, but again it depends on your having a data connection.

If you spend all your time in a major city or driving along highways then a GPS in a smartphone might be enough for you, but if you like to travel to places where cellphone service is spotty or non-existent then a dedicated GPS is a MUCH better choice. When I traveled to Australia a couple years ago I took a dedicated GPS with me and it worked great. If I'd relied on my smartphone I would have had to have paid for a local data plan and prayed that there was coverage everywhere I was going.

Yes, I know ephemeris data can be grabbed from the GPS satellites and I know that newer smartphone apps are now storing map data locally, but I still find a full-featured GPS handheld to be much more useful than a GPS app on an iPhone.

Re:GPS devices

[RapmasterT]

multipurpose devices will undoubtedly replace single purpose GPS units for anything except very special cases, but for the reasons you say it's not going to happen any time soon. True GPS has to be incorporated into the phones, not the hybrid stuff used now.

try using your iphone Google Maps feature in a dead cell zone. you get el zilcho, nothing, not a thing. Plain old GPS loves wide open spaces, cell phones...not so much.

Re:GPS devices

[Graham J - XVI]

Not all GPS software downloads from the network. I use Navigon for my iPhone and it installs maps on the device.

Re:GPS devices

[snspdaarf]

Agree. I like having dedicated devices. That way, when one goes tits-up I have a fallback position. It's why I go into the back country with a GPS, topo map, and a compass. My phone is just a phone. That's all I need it to do. That's all I want it to do. I am willing to keep up with more gadgets so that I don't have a single point of failure.

Re:GPS devices

[mmcxii]

Yes, I know ephemeris data can be grabbed from the GPS satellites and I know that newer smartphone apps are now storing map data locally

So you're admitting your rant is a non-issue?

I still find a full-featured GPS handheld to be much more useful than a GPS app on an iPhone.

Care to back that up? Your entire post hinged on the idea that you can't save maps locally and you turn around in your closing remark and admit that you can save maps locally but go on to again proclaim that dedicated GPS is still better. I own a Garmin iQue M5 and while it's a great device I don't see a single thing that it could do that can't be done on a cell. Either I'm missing something or you don't have a leg to stand on here.

Re:GPS devices

[geekoid]

My G1 has very accurate G1. yeah, the iPhone's GPS is crap, but that doesn't apply to all smart phones.

Re:GPS devices

[EnglishTim]

Er... you've been able to buy TomTom for WinMo for several years now - the maps are stored on a memory card. I have it on an old GPS-enabled Windows Mobile phone that I now only use for GPS. I've had both CoPilot and TomTom on it - both were installed to the memory card.

Back when I got that phone I was looking at dedicated GPS units and a lot of them were just GPS-enabled Windows Mobile PDAs.

It tends to only be the free navigation solutions (or the ones built for non-smartphones) that don't store the data locally.

Re:GPS devices

[nxtw]

I was using my smartphone with a Bluetooth GPS receiver and maps stored on the memory card back in 2006.

Even better, though: I haven't needed to drive anywhere without data coverage since 2005.

Re:GPS devices

[biglig2]

Well, the thing is that while dedicated GPS devices are better at navigation, an iPhone is more general purpose, doing lots of things apart from navigation. For example, I have an app that uses the GPS while I'm out for a walk to track how far I've gone and how many calories I've burned.

The issue that if you're navigating you need local maps was fixed long ago; all the navigation apps you buy do this. The builtin maps app doesn't of course, but it's not really for navigation; it just has that included as a "might as well put this in". It's for location aware searching.

If my beloved TomTom fell under a bus... I'd probably replace with TomTom for iPhone, Maybe not as good, but as with cameras, the best GPS is the one you have with you, and I've always got my phone with me.

Re:GPS devices

[Xyde]

This isn't actually true, the iPhone has AGPS which will work perfectly fine without a cell signal - it just takes a little longer to lock on. The problem is that with no cell signal you can't download the imaging required to actually see where you are; a pulsating blue dot on a grey and white checkerboard pattern doesn't really tell you what you need. This can be avoided by having the maps locally on the device.

Re:GPS devices

[RapmasterT]

This isn't actually true, the iPhone has AGPS which will work perfectly fine without a cell signal - it just takes a little longer to lock on. "

That statement is factually untrue. I tried this in the colorado rocky mountains where I had ZERO cell phone signal, but 360 sky view. The only thing the iphone GPS returned was "no signal"

Tivoization

[tepples]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them

Not necessarily. The mention of "ARM-powered entertainment tablets" makes me think some of these tablets will be locked up like a TiVo DVR: running a GPLv2 Linux kernel digitally signed by the manufacturer and GPLv2 apps digitally signed by the manufacturer. The compliance and robustness requirements of the digital restrictions management systems used by the publishers of non-free works on "entertainment tablets" might prohibit any environment that isn't suitably Tivoized so that someone can't just tee(1) the cleartext of a non-free work to a file.

Re:Tivoization

[Pojut]

You forget though, there are plenty of tablets coming out that will have Windows 7 on them (and, in theory, be modifiable), and I wouldn't be surprised if in a year or two once companies get the logistics of tablet design and construction down we will see the cheap knockoffs that you can do whatever you want to appearing on the market.

I'm sure there are other open (as in "do what you want", not "open source") linux-based devices coming as well.

Re:Tivoization

[Zen Hash]

What with all the other tablets coming out that let me install whatever the hell I want on them

Not necessarily. The mention of "ARM-powered entertainment tablets" makes me think some of these tablets will be locked up like a TiVo DVR: running a GPLv2 Linux kernel digitally signed by the manufacturer and GPLv2 apps digitally signed by the manufacturer. The compliance and robustness requirements of the digital restrictions management systems used by the publishers of non-free works on "entertainment tablets" might prohibit any environment that isn't suitably Tivoized so that someone can't just tee(1) the cleartext of a non-free work to a file.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDe1gd-pBRo -- There have been ARM-powered tablets on the market for quite awhile now, and they don't have the limitations you mention... Unlike the iPad, this one not only supports tethering to cell phones, it even steps you through BT pairing and configuring the DUN connection during the out-of-box setup wizard. You can also dual-boot different operating systems (Android, Ubuntu, Mer, etc.) stored internally or on removable SD cards. Not bad for something that costs less than half the price of the iPad. There are surely better ones available if one were to look around.

Re:Tivoization

[Karlt1]

Not bad for something that costs less than half the price of the iPad.

Half the price of the iPad But....

-- 2GB of storage (expandable to 8GB) - versus 16GB
-- 802.11g -- versus 802.11n
-- half the resolution
-- 400Mhz processor versus 1GHz
-- the screen is 3.5 inches versus 10 inches

So exactly why were you comparing this to an iPad?

Re:Tivoization

[jedidiah]

My ARM tablet cost me about as much as an iPad did but I bought it 2 years ago.

Although it has a smaller screen, it has a lot more storage and no BS iTunes requirement and better format support.

You need to adapt yourself to it less.

The browser could be better though. Although it's really not much worse than mobile Safari.

Without web-balkanizing-apps, the iPhone/iPad is a really sorry thing.

Re:Tivoization

[Zen Hash]

My point was that there are already ARM-powered tablets on the market running linux, and they aren't locked down like the GP was thinking. This is simply an outdated pocket-sized tablet I'm using as an easy example, since I'm already familiar with it. It's not a perfect 1:1 comparison to the iPad. After all, this device was released more than 2 years ago, and had reached it's end-of-life before the iPad was announced. Yet, at least for myself, the functionality it offers still far exceeds that of the iPad.

Re:Tivoization

[Anonymous Coward]

-- 2GB of storage (expandable to 8GB) - versus 16GB

You can use a higher capacity microSD card (with miniSD adapter), or use USB storage devices.

Re:Tivoization

[Karlt1]

You can use a higher capacity microSD card (with miniSD adapter), or use USB storage devices.

http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/nokia-n810/specifications

Storage

Up to 2GB internal memory
Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender). Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)

Re:Tivoization

[symbolset]

You say this like there's a W7 platform that can get all the way through a James Cameron epic film, let alone a 14 hour flight, without its own battery cart.

Re:Tivoization

[shutdown -p now]

Well, some Win7 netbooks can last 7-8 hours today...

Re:Tivoization

[CleverBoy]

Honestly. If you can't point to a comparable device to the iPad, I'm not sure why you would even post a video. The whole point is that the iPad is incorporating a bunch of NEW technology that devices of this size and price have not offered before. How do we know this? Well, just look at the new HP Slate device. It is still a prototype... along with the other slate form-factor devices mentioned at CES. Lenovo just released a new IdeaPad that is the FIRST netbook to have a capacitive touch screen. It's called the IdeaPad S10-3t. Engadget just did a hands-on and said it was very "meh", and the processor was dissappointingly sluggish. Also, by lacking the IPS screen technology of the iPad, the viewing angles truly sucked.

That said, bring on companies who are doing "BETTER" work than Apple. Choice is absolutely awesome. But, Apple is intentionally targeting specific solutions, and its not one-size-fits-all. Let's hope others produce bigger cheaper buckets, but the reason why Apple stuff costs a lot is:

#1.) They use high quality components (cheaper solutions usually value price over craftsmanship) and

#2.) They really try not to chase after the cut throat PC market by differentiating themselves (often they present a great bargain, but competitors undercut them in weeks-months, and they never reprice until they hit a new product cycle).

You can't get something for nothing. There's always a trade-off, even if you don't see it.

Re:Tivoization

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 12" HP tablet with Windows 7. It's nearly unusable as a touch OS. Any tablet running Windows will need an interface layer on top of Windows. I think the most competitive iPad alternatives will run either Android, Chrome, or some other type of touch-friendly Linux.

Re:Tivoization

[IICV]

It fits in your pocket, and has a physical keyboard.

Seriously, I recently bought an N900, and this thing seems like where the iPad hopes to be in a decade. It does everything I expect out of the box, and everything I want with a bit of effort (I mean shit, I've been playing mobile Chrono Trigger and Freeciv on this thing for the last couple of days without any problems). Not only that, but it comes with 32 GB of internal storage, supports up to 16 GB of removable storage, has 3G built-in, and costs ~$530 (about the price of the base iPad). And it comes with a X-Terminal app. By default. This thing was made for me, I think.

Yeah, it's only got a 600 MHz CPU - but it's also got a 430 MHz DSP, so it can handle a surprising number of things very smoothly. It also doesn't have multi-touch, but that's not really something I need. It doesn't have 802.11n, but I'm okay with that for the next five or ten years - at that point I'll upgrade to something else.

Re:Tivoization

[hitmark]

sadly, outside of the keyboard and gps, its less featured then the slightly older N800. I have said device sitting on my desk, and inside it is 2 8GB full size SD Cards, but others have gone to 2x32GB cards.

the biggest flaw of both models, to fixable via booting from SD rather then internal storage, is that software for them is limited to being installed on the internal storage (256MB on both), a sizable part of it taken up by the os. This is largely a limitation created by the unix FHS, tho one that could have been taken care of with a more flexible install system that could install libs and programs on the SD or similar, and use symbolic links to connect the SD and the FHS. Nokia tried something like that on the N900 via a process nicknamed "opt-ification", where things would be placed in /opt, a symlinked dir that pointed to /home/user, itself placed on storage physically separated from the os. However, with the merging of maemo and moblin, i am unsure if the process will be carried over, or if something else will be done.

what would be interesting to see would be a openpandora, but with a slider form rather then clamshell.

Re:Tivoization

[hitmark]

i suspect the removable storage can be pushed beyond 16GB. The "support" is more a case of being the biggest card in general availability that nokia could test on it during development, rather then a absolute limit.

Re:Tivoization

[IICV]

Yeah, I can't actually find any microSD cards that are have more than 16 GB right now, and even the 16 GB ones are like $50. As long as it's hardware compatible, I'm sure the N900 will be able to use it - the OS is, after all, based on Debian.

Re:Tivoization

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use a higher capacity microSD card (with miniSD adapter), or use USB storage devices.

http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/nokia-n810/specifications

Storage

Up to 2GB internal memory Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender). Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)

It supports SDHC (required for cards >4GB). A few years ago, when that documentation was written, the highest capacity miniSD or microSD cards available were only 8GB.

Today, there are higher capacity SDHC cards available. They still work: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24245

Re:Tivoization

[Swift2001]

How's the battery? That's the complaint I'm hearing.

Re:Tivoization

[IICV]

Honestly, not the greatest - you'll definitely need to recharge it once you get back home. I tend to spend the day listening to music over a Bluetooth headset, and it handles that well, though the battery is nearly drained when I get home.

Of course, if you're just that hardcore, an extra battery is like $30 and totally user-replaceable :)

Re:Tivoization

[MidnightBrewer]

While the N900 is an impressive device, I really don't think Apple's eventual plan for the iPad is to shrink it down to a 3.5" screen. This is an iPhone competitor, not an iPad. It's definitely a geek's dream come true, but by the same token not exactly mainstream (the number of people who want a terminal, TV-out and the ability to play FreeCiv on the same device is fairly small).

Ok, where are they???

[RapmasterT]

"when I consider that there are soon going to be literally dozens of cheaper, Linux-powered iPad devices on the market"

Ok, find I'm sold. can I order one today? Tomorrow? 6 months?

No, well FU then. I've been waiting for a slate computing device like this for YEARS and someone is shipping one next month, that someone happens to be Apple. If something better comes along, fine I'll take one of those too, then ReBay the iPad. If the market floods with them and nothing is any better, I'll keep it.

I can't sit down on the couch with Vaporware, so how long are we supposed to wait? And frankly I'm not poor enough to worry about waiting to save a couple $$ to buy the exact best thing at the exact best time.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenovo IdeaPad?

Re:Ok, where are they???

[faedle]

Archos 5 Internet Tablet. Runs Android. Been on the market for about 6 months.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Arthur Grumbine]

I've been waiting for a slate media-consumption device like this for YEARS and someone is shipping one next month, that someone happens to be Apple.

Fixed that for you - unless you have some secret evidence that you will be able to perform any desktop-level/laptop-level computing activities on this that you can't perform on any smartphone, or any of the currently available Archos tablets. Also, were you never aware of the Compaq TC1100?

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Anonymous Coward]

You've been able to buy an Archos Internet Media Tablet with Android for several months now

Re:Ok, where are they???

[EnglishTim]

There are already several Android tablet devices out there which you can buy right now.

Personally, I want something you can also draw on with a stylus for annotating documents, sketching etc. I'd like to use it at work to replace my notepad and printed out documents.

I'm guessing the first company who can do a good e-reader / e-notebook will do pretty well in businesses.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[EnglishTim]

I should have said that I don't think any of the Android tablets are as good the iPad yet though.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.entourageedge.com/devices/entourage-edge.html

Re:Ok, where are they???

[moonbender]

A device with a 4.8" 16:10 screen really isn't in the same class as a device with a 9.6" 4:3 screen. The other stuff doesn't even matter, the good (Linux!!) and the bad (resistive vs capacitive).

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Anonymous Coward]

Archos has several right now:
  http://www.archos.com/home.html?country=us&lang=en

The JooJoo is taking pre-orders and claims shipping in 8-10 weeks:
https://thejoojoo.com/store/order/new

There are others, but those were off the top of my head.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[CleverBoy]

"unless you have some secret evidence that you will be able to perform any desktop-level/laptop-level computing activities on this that you can't perform on any smartphone, or any of the currently available Archos tablets"

Hm. Does editing and presenting Powerpoint Presentations count? How about a multitouch painting program like Brushes that allows you to use layers and exports to Photoshop format? All that was in the January presentation, homie. Is it that you don't think anyone will follow Apple's lead and design fully multitouch productivity applications for the iPad form-factor or that you think no one minds using desktop software on a multitouch slate device?

Regarding the "Compaq TC1100"? Hm. I think these are the two most important qualifiers from the post you were responding to... "like this". A 2-hour battery life device with no capacitive touchscreen OR multitouch capability, no IPS screen technology, and as bulky and desktop OS centric as it was? Yes. As great as HP is, and I hope their newly announced slate gets it right when they release it... they're not shipping anything LIKE the iPad now... or in the past. --And don't get me wrong... most of that responsibility lies with Microsoft and the OS, not with the worthy attempts of the hardware manufacturers. But, there have been shortcomings on both sides that have finally led to new innovations rolling out this year.

iPad - 0.5", 1.5lbs. 9.7-inch screen (diagonally), 7.5" x 9.5" in dimension. LED backlit, multitouch capacitive display with IPS technology and oleophobic coating. Wireless 802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR, built-in speaker & microphone, accellorometer /w screen-lock button, ambient light sensor, and digital compass. 10 hour battery life. Fully multi-touch-capable OS.

If you find a device that matches or beats all of those specs for $499 or less... trust me, everyone will say "iPad what?" You can even find a comparable device for a little more and turn a lot of heads. It doesn't even need to sync with iTunes, allow music, video, and ebook purchases over-the-air. As long as it can play a 720p to 1080p movie and YouTube HD without studdering, we'll do just fine.

Only... you really can't.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[Anonymous Coward]

Regarding the "Compaq TC1100"? Hm. I think these are the two most important qualifiers from the post you were responding to... "like this". A 2-hour battery life device with no capacitive touchscreen OR multitouch capability, no IPS screen technology, and as bulky and desktop OS centric as it was? Yes. As great as HP is, and I hope their newly announced slate gets it right when they release it... they're not shipping anything LIKE the iPad now... or in the past. --And don't get me wrong... most of that responsibility lies with Microsoft and the OS, not with the worthy attempts of the hardware manufacturers. But, there have been shortcomings on both sides that have finally led to new innovations rolling out this year.

So HP puts out a product 7 years ago that does more in function than the iPad will ever do and you focus on the one feature that iPad has that a 7 year old device will never have but neglect to mention any of the tons of things that Apple left out of the design. And somehow Apple is the innovator here? Please. That is such a fanboi arguement it's not even funny. When HP comes out with Slate in a few months and has many features the iPad will never have (again) you'll probably be the first one claiming that Jobs is the real innovator and HP just copied him.

Innovation my ass. All you are doing is warping history to match your little fascination with a company's products.

Re:Ok, where are they???

[CleverBoy]

You, unfortunately, are the one warping history... so much you took my laundry list of innovative iPad features and somehow came up with "one feature". How bizarre.

iPad - 0.5", 1.5lbs. 9.7-inch screen (diagonally), 7.5" x 9.5" in dimension. LED backlit, multitouch capacitive display with IPS technology and oleophobic coating. Wireless 802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR, built-in speaker & microphone, accelerometer /w screen-lock button, ambient light sensor, and digital compass. 10 hour battery life. Fully multi-touch-capable OS. If you find a device that matches or beats all of those specs for $499 or less... trust me, everyone will say "iPad what?"

"When the HP slate comes out--" Seriously, do you hear yourself? I'm looking forward to it to, but don't make any predictions, buddy. No specs. No price. No FCC. No hands-on. No pre-orders. I'm sorry, but when you join us in the real world, come join us for Adult Swim, the water is real nice this time of day.

I think HP is great (as I said in my previous post). Just because you hate one company so much, doesn't mean you need to have a psychotic break. For what it is, iPad is in a highly desireable class by itself. Months from now, that many not be the case... but, unfortunately, they said that about the iPhone too, and it took years for competitors to really start introducing phones that began to function in the same class (Droid / Nexus One).

Apple's huge gamble is NOT about "missing features". It's about creating a new class of device, and whether people will really want it. Trust me. In order to hit $499, it will be difficult for competitors not to ship a crappy plastic craptacular craplet with a pressure-sensitive screen and stylus. If you've been watching the hard knock-off work pumping out of China its been fascinating. I'm not sure I've seen Chinese companies have such a hard time knocking off anything so much as they've had with the iPhone and now the iPad. Painful.

If you have a moment. Watch some of the iPad hands-on videos circulating out there. I'm personally anxious to see how much abuse Apple has made this capable of taking and still keep up with users. The #1 irritation with current netbooks is sluggishness. The iPad's zippiness has earned uniform praise. On the useability front, that's absolutely HUGE.

The app store/3rd party support

[SmallFurryCreature]

Those are the secret weapons of Apple. When I buy an iPod I can get any number of gadgets for it, not so with other MP3 players that themselves might be more capable and cheaper but don't have this critical mass that makes it worthwhile for others to produce products for it.

We have yet to see if the Android app market matches up the iPhone one. Probably not. Oh, I get it myself that having a truly open product allows you to install all the real applications you want and that 99% of the apps are toys, but I am a geek, the majority is not.

There will be a docking station for the iPad for your car so you can hook it to the seat as an entertainment hub for the kids in the back. Not so with any of the competitors. And that will sell the iPad (assuming this won't be one of Apples turds, they have had them you know).

A linux pad/tablet/whatever will need to be a whole lot more then an iPad to be considered equal.

Re:The app store/3rd party support

[Anonymous Coward]

So, apt-get install isn't working for you, then?

Maybe bump up to Synaptic if you prefer an nice scrolly interface. Lots of great apps in there. Or hey, portage.

Re:The app store/3rd party support

[Anonymous Coward]

A USB interface?

It's the software, stupid

[edelbrp]

What gives the iPad its strengths is the software it runs. It's otherwise a fairly simple device (a touchscreen, yay).

Re:It's the software, stupid

[dfghjk]

That suggests the iPad has strengths.

So much speculation and hype

[jandrese]

I wonder how much of it will be wrong in the end? 90% 95% 99%?

I'm personally not sold on the iPad yet, but then it rarely pays to buy the first generation product of anything. Who can forget the initial reaction to the iPod? What was the phrase? "Too expensive? No WiFi? Lame?" You know what? That was right on the money. It would take Apple a couple of generations to really make the iPod a household name.

How well it clobbers the Kindle and Nook depend entirely on how easy Apple makes it to buy and read books on the thing. Obviously Amazon and B&N have a pretty good setup already and Apple is going to have to play catchup. It's certainly a possibility that the iPad completely fizzles as an eBook reader, potentially because too many publishers decide not to play ball and make it difficult to find books you actually want to read.

The "Linux clone" argument misses the point entirely as well. Apple isn't selling a device, they're selling an ecology; a lifestyle. It's the same way they don't sell a music player, it sells an integrated portable storefront with a highly polished and easy to use interface. It's completely different, and it's the reason all of those clones are going to sit in tiny niches while the iPad outsells them all.

Re:So much speculation and hype

[Anonymous Coward]

How well it clobbers the Kindle and Nook depend entirely on how easy Apple makes it to buy and read books on the thing.

That is not completely up to Apple. It takes at least two parties to make the "buying" possible, and the content publishers likely do not want a repeat of what happened in the music industry.

That, IMO, is the big unknown with respect to the success of the iPad. If Apple gets first-class access to the content, it will be a huge success. If they don't, I think it still will be a very decent device, but it might not get staying power.

Android

[Massacrifice]

And of all these Linux tablets, more than half will run an Android based distro of some form.

Which is why I've stopped learning Objective-C to concentrate on my embedded Java skills.

Re:Android

[Microlith]

And people keep mistakenly calling Android tablets "Linux tablets." Most of the time, there's nothing Linux about them except the kernel.

If you want a Linux device, get something you can put Moblin/Maemo (MeeGo) on. -That's- a distro designed around mobile and touch interfaces.

Re:Android

[Kleiba]

Of course there's nothing more Linux about them than the kernel - since Linux is nothing more than a kernel.

Re:Android

[sourcerror]

You mean nothing GNU.

Re:Android

[Anonymous Coward]

It should take a developer about a week to learn a language, Objective-C or Java. Going between the two isn't exactly hard. Learning the CocoaTouch framework? A couple weeks of solid work and you will master it, same goes for any reasonable Java UI library.

I'm not sure what the problem is. Why limit yourself?

All of the iPad's goodies...

[Anonymous Coward]

...except the one that counts--a user interface designed from scratch to be used by fingers. Apple designs their products around users. Everybody else designs their products around bullet-points.

Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[tepples]

Unless the software on the Linux devices has been rewritten for a touch interface I don't see why they're worth bothering with.

Adapting a mouse app for touch control has two major steps: 1. eliminate anything requiring a hover, and 2. make the controls big so that they're easier to hit. Or what am I missing?

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[ultrabot]

Adapting a mouse app for touch control has two major steps: 1. eliminate anything requiring a hover, and 2. make the controls big so that they're easier to hit. Or what am I missing?

You'll have to enable flicking (in order to not suck).

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[bretticus]

Gestures and multi-touch I'd guess.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[peragrin]

adjusting the overall interface for touch screen , not just big controls but proper controls. you can have sliding buttons, etc. You need an on screen keyboard that works the same across all applications, with built in spell check that picks up words as they are entered. Applications themselves need to be able to rotate to deal with changes in resolutions. You need to setup a method of switching to various applications without keyboard combos or other hardware buttons. You need to add gesture support into the ENTIRE interface and every app to allow more input methods.

Oh and you need to make all of that work the same across every app and every interface element that needs or could make sensible use of it.

That is the point Android and current windows mobile fail so badly at. They are still designing interfaces for desktops. Not for multi touch based tablets. People like you who think there is only two steps to make s touch based app to consider when designing the interface, is why apple is kicking android's ass.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[bennomatic]

I think that mouse-based apps should support flicking as well. I mean, there's no reason why, when I'm using the scroll wheel, I shouldn't be able to do slow, fine control and quick flips which reproduce inertia.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[Phleg]

This mentality is precisely why Windows Mobile has been a complete and utter failure.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[DdJ]

An example of what you're missing is, well, consider menu (or button) bar placement. On a mouse-based UI, there's no downside to putting that at the top of the screen. On a touch-based UI, putting that at the top of the screen means your hand covers up the screen when you use it.

A really good touch UI isn't going to have a whole lot in common with a really good mouse-based UI. Awful ones can share a lot, but good ones won't.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[Hatta]

I'd flick off the iPad too, but it probably wouldn't be necessary with linux.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[EvanED]

An example of what you're missing is, well, consider menu (or button) bar placement. On a mouse-based UI, there's no downside to putting that at the top of the screen. On a touch-based UI, putting that at the top of the screen means your hand covers up the screen when you use it.

As another example, consider scroll bar placement. (This makes less sense with stuff like the iPhone's Safari, where the whole screen basically is the scroll area.) If it's fixed to the right side of the screen, I won't use your app on a touch device. I'm left handed, so having it on the right means that I can't both scroll and see where the present cursor puts the document. I have a Tablet PC (and love it), and used it pretty heavily for a while. Going back to a "normal" computer, it felt really awkward for a while to have the scroll bars back on the right sides of the windows. (Fortunately you can move the location of the scroll bar on both OneNote and Firefox, which by far are the two programs I use most in tablet mode.)

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[cynyr]

gestures are easily done as key strokes, by watching for the gesture and then sending a keystroke, should be relatively straight forward in X. Why does an on screen keyboard need to care about the app under it? just send keyboard events to the window focused. Why does it need to do spell checking we are talking about 10" screens. my current keyboard is close to that size already(the small apple Al keyboard). the flicking thing seems a bit of a showy gimmick to me. whats wrong with the scroll bar? just make sure it's wide enough to be easy to hit, or for that matter, when you "flick" it sends a scroll wheel event(s)(buttons 4 and 5 on a mouse). QT4 should all but eliminate the need to ensure that your app works at 2 different resolutions. It handles things like growing and stretching the size of the window very well. It also has support for setting methods to call on resize of the parent window, allowing you to then check the size, and swap between the portrait, and landscape UIs. Why does the app need to know about the input methods? shouldn't the GUI toolkit(gtk/qt/etc) handle that for the app developer. Now if you are making a game on linux, my suggestion would be to look at SDL and OpenGL.

I'm willing to bet that most of the apps sucking on Andriod and WinMo, is that app developers don't let the UI and underlying stuff handle placing things for them. They instead try and lock down the UI so that it looks the same everywhere, and makes it harder to just let the toolkit handle low level things for you.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[Voyager529]

WinMo has been a complete and utter failure for a few other reasons...

-Versions prior to 6.5 all assumed that you were using a stylus. The touch screen keyboard on older WinMo devices were neigh impossible to use without one. WinMo 6.5 is much closer to being finger friendly, and HTC and Samsung have added some really slick UI replacements that actually make it nice to use (I own a Touch Pro2 myself). It's too little, too late though.

-There was severe market fragmentation; WinMo supported touch screens, keyboards, trackballs, or combinations thereof. This generally worked alright for the OS, but app developers had to deal with a nighmare of a UI conundrum as to which was supported.

-the iTunes Music Store has dwarfed music sales from just about everyone else, and for a long time involved DRM. This made it a chore to buy/burn/rip to Windows Media Player if one already had a few thousand tracks in their iTunes library...

-...And even if one did the above step, WMP on WinMo is crap. Like seriously, it's outright annoying to use...and still all but mandates the use of a stylus. As much as I loathe iTunes, the media player on my iPhone when I had one still has been the best media player of any phone I've ever owned.

-WinMo devices STILL don't have an official movie/TV purchasing retailer. As far as I know, the only places you'll find broadcast TV and Hollywood content for WinMo devices is Pirate Bay, or ripping your own (using third party apps of dubious legality in the US). Even if people never get more than one or two episodes, the possibility of doing so as easily as they do music makes it attractive for the average consumer.

-WinMo has suffered from the same business-and-bug-ridden mindset as it's desktop sibling, just as Apple has the trendy-and-just-works mindshare. Whether it's warranted or not is of course debatable (I see both sides, personally), but there are plenty more "average consumers" than Slashdotters.

-Again, I see both sides of Apple's App Store. The nice thing for consumers is that it's centralized and users needn't go further than the iTunes desktop application to get what they need. WinMo uses the desktop model of Google-Search,-pay-if-needed,-download,-and-install-the-CAB of desktop Windows. This allows any dev to write any app and distribute it however they want, but it makes getting apps MUCH more difficult than using the App Store. WinMo 6.5 has the Marketplace now, but again, it's largely too little too late again, and personally I'd like to see a desktop app as well.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[indiechild]

It's just the usual bunch of hardware geeks dismissing anything to do with usability and user experience design.
"OMG we don't want to dumb down computers for the unwashed masses" etc

We need more usability geeks here.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[biglig2]

There's a 2a, which is moving the controls further apart so you hit them cleanly, and a 2b, which is reducing the number of controls so you have room for them after you've done 2 and 2a.

And as Ultrabot says, 3) add multi-touch style controls as needed, such as flicking or swiping or pinching.

And I guess 4) reduce UI latency, because not having an app instantly respond feels much more broken when you're actually touching the UI for some reason.

And 5) reduce dependency on accurate selection. It took apple so long to do Cut+Paste for a reason - accurate selection in a touch UI is difficult.

Oh, I guess there's a 5a) of changing the UI to accomodate multiple item selection, which you tend to have to do with a seperate checklist mode.

And 6) ensure you can get to all the UI without right-click/middle-click

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[c_forq]

How you interact with data. There was a great lecture at MIT on on this that is on iTunes. With the iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch you have to remember you are interacting with the data directly, there is none of the abstraction that a mouse induces. I think this is best displayed in the iPad photo app, the way you can glide through albums or use a spread gesture to peak inside of stacks.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[mjwx]

That is the point Android and current windows mobile fail so badly at.

You have never used Android, because if you did you would know the problem you describe does not exist.

Now what you describe is the responsibility of the OS, or more specifically the HAL to take input from whichever input device (touch screen. OSK, physical KB) and convert it into the response that the program understands. You seem to be under the impression that Android is an integrated device, it is not. Android is an operating system and like most operating systems it is designed to be an application framework that gives uniform results across disparate hardware. This is a job Android does very well and ultimately this is why Android will take over.

Ultimately there is little difference between making an application for Linux or Windows desktop and making an application for Android when it comes to input, mouse actions can easily translate into touch screen actions and the output of an on screen keyboard is identical to the output of a physical keyboard. The significant difference between a desktop application and a mobile phone application is the screen size, this is why UI changes need to be made not because of the OS.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[fermion]

There is third thing. Getting out of the multibutton mentality. While there are reasons for more than one mouse button, much to the time it is really a way to make lazy UI decisions. Furthermore, if the UI has been build for million button mouse rather than a mutlitouch trackpad, it is going to be much harder to move to a touch screen.

This is the secret of innovation and goof program. Developing not only for what currently exists, but also for what might exist.

Re:Adapting a mouse app for touch control

[Anonymous Coward]

Heheheeee. nice one.

Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[Starteck81]

All the freedom of choice and options that we the geeks find fun interesting only confuse the average user and cripple the usability for them. That is why devices like this only fill a niche market and the iPad/iPhone/iTouch make millions. I'm not trying to start a holy war just contrast the difference and why one is currently more successful than the other.

Re:Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken as if marketing, or the lack of it has nothing to do with it...

BTW, I have to admit that I'm pretty curious about what you think you'll be able to do with your "iPhone for the visually impaired" that can't be done on something running Linux. It's not like you'll be watching a whole lot of flash on it in any case. *snort*

(In fact the iFag is more crippled than a Linux system would be in that regard, since Gnash at least plays some flash content, if you want it.)

And finally, if you weren't out to start some holy war, you'd turn down your rather prejudiced superiority complex and stop putting your nose into the air. It might rain in, you know.

Re:Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[Starteck81]

Spoken as if marketing, or the lack of it has nothing to do with it...

So your assertion is that if Apple went and marketed one of these clones and the iPad that the clone would do better?

Re:Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[Anonymous Coward]

No. My assertions are

1. If someone with a really strong brand made one and actuallly put some real effort in it, as opposed to the half-assed-not-to-provoke-microsoft versions that were sent with the netbooks, kind of like nokia is doing with the N900,
2. Really leveraged what's out there, like existing software, packages and communities.
3. maybe didn't use the name "Linux" because it conveys the wrong image to people who are either totaly ignorant or makes the wrong assumptions after having seen a x-terminal in some window manger back in 1998, or deliberatly want to spread the idea that that represents "Linux"
4. since it basically can do anything an iPad can, and a few things it can't
5. it would kill the iPad dead, dead, dead.

Re:Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[sowth]

I think the poster was saying if Apple marketed an empty box and called it "the iBox", it would sell just as well as the iPad.

You see, there is a large segment of the population which uses this magic box called a "teevee" to tell them what to buy, and anything which isn't shown on this magic box is "crapola." Unfortunately, all their money goes to psychopaths who spend it on bribing governments to lock others out of the market.

Re:Good for geeks bad for everyone else

[rochrist]

I'm certainly impressed by the use of iFag in your argument.

Re:Check List--Not Worth-It

[Anonymous Coward]

From personal experience, I can say that desktop penetration is unhygienic, taboo in almost every culture, and --what's worse--totally unenjoyable.

Re:Hardware clones - yes. Clones .. no

[maxume]

The unlimited is going to be a tough sell on open devices, but there are plans close enough to the $15/250MB available right now:

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband

(Virgin Mobile is owned and operated by Sprint, they bought Virgin out last year and licensed the name)

It's really all about choice...

[jcannonb]

I pre-ordered the iPad today. Does it matter to you? Probably not. Does it matter to me that you may not? Probably not. It's all about what people like. If I used Linux as a desktop OS, I probably wouldn't purchase one. I currently use Mac OS X, and have an iPhone, and would prefer to have a consistent user experience. Does that mean I hate linux or Windows? No. Well, maybe Windows :-) The truth is I use linux for the 100 database servers I design and manage at work. But at the end of the day, I like OS X for my desktop (and I have the money to purchase Apple and Apple related products), because it is sleek, elegant, and it does everything I still want it to do. My days of spending endless hours of tweaking my hardware and software are behind me. I built hundreds of systems for me, my family, my customers over the years, and the thrill of doing that is long gone. At the end of the day, I just want to sit down to a computer experience that I don't *have* to mess with. I don't want to keep up with kernel updates, or distro updates linux, or virus updates on Windows. If that is your cup of tea, that is wonderful, and I won't knock you for it. But don't put down the ppl that want an iPad at the end of the day either. It's their choice, just like it's your choice not to purchase one.

Re:It's really all about choice...

[Anonymous Coward]

The truth is I use linux for the 100 database servers I design and manage at work. ...

I don't want to keep up with kernel updates, or distro updates linux, or virus updates on Windows.

I wonder how you can manage "designing" 100 database servers if you are spending >>0 time with "kernel updates" or "distro updates" in Linux.

Just admit that you are mopping the floors in the datacenter, that's alright.

Re:It's really all about choice...

[bnenning]

Somehow Apple has managed to convince lots of people that ease of use and hackability are necessarily inversely correlated, which is bizarre considering that Mac OS X itself is an excellent counterexample.

Re:It's really all about choice...

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, are correct.

Re:It's really all about choice...

[Anonymous Coward]

I like that my iPhone works flawlessly, and that apps don't interrupt phone calls, and that it doesn't crash or lag at any time. The same cannot be said about Android, most people seem to junk their phones up with a dozen daemons and get a day of battery life at most.

...rejected by Apple.

[tepples]

It's apps that sell hardware

True. That's why every time Apple makes the news for rejecting a class of applications, I become less likely to buy a device running iPhone OS.

Re:...rejected by Apple.

[ogminlo]

True. That's why every time Apple makes the news for rejecting a class of applications, I become less likely to buy a device running iPhone OS.

Good thing FOSS doesn't discriminate against softcore porn and unlicensed web content aggregators!

iPad is not an eBook reader killer

[Locke2005]

Backlit LCD displays don't work very well in direct sunlight. Reflective eInk displays do just fine. Take your iPad to the beach for reading this summer and tell me how it works out for you. Now, if they put both an eInk display and a backlit LCD in the same device, then that would rock both for reading and for watching videos (isn't there already one device that does that?), and that might signal the death of the dedicated eBook reader.

Re:iPad is not an eBook reader killer

[Areyoukiddingme]

It's called a transflective LCD screen. Some of the ~50 will have them. I hear the full color mode is rather more yellow than might be desirable, but it is readable in full sunlight and as responsive as any LCD, so for instance it can display video. Power consumption is notably higher than e-ink. The brand most commonly brought up on Slashdot is Pixel Qi. See the story this week about the Pixel Qi transflective LCD replacement kit for a netbook.

Re:iPad is not an eBook reader killer

[Locke2005]

Agreed, a device with the Pixel Qi screen at close to an eBook reader price would definitely qualify as an eBook killer. Support for WiFi, USB, touchscreen, decent audio, and decent browser with Flash support would help too. I would think you could build something like that for about half of the $499 iPad price point.

Re:iPad is not an eBook reader killer

[Areyoukiddingme]

Or possibly even cheaper. Transflective LCD is very old, so it's probably not patent-encumbered like e-ink.

I bought an e-ink device more than 2 years ago (a CyBook Gen3) for $350 and I considered it a very expensive toy. I have been inordinately pleased with it, despite the price. Some years I travel a lot for the company and the reader was SO much more convenient than carrying enough books to keep me occupied for a week. The battery lasts so long that if I forget the USB charging cable at home, it doesn't even matter; the battery will last the week, no problem.

Because I already have a real ebook reader, my interest in this year's tablets is pretty minimal. My tolerable price point for another toy is much lower than it was for the first toy. Offer me a touchscreen tablet as thin as my reader, with styling as simple and smooth as my reader, and I'll pay no more than $150 for it, and that's pushing it. I'd prefer $100.

I don't see even the massive Taiwanese manufacturers being able to meet that price point, especially with so much competition, so it looks like I'll be reading with e-ink and no wifi for a while yet.

Kill off e-readers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only by way of growing into a merger between the two. The e-ink screens are the sole reason to get an e-reader, and the lack thereof is also the prime reason the iPad is worthless for heavy reading. Until we have quick rendering high color e-ink screens, which would allow a single device to fill the purposes both an iPad and an e-reader fill now, nobody is killing anybody.

IPS Pannel

[failedlogic]

This seems like its another attempt at a convergence device, which is really what Apple has become. Apple was touting their iPad as the screen has an IPS pannel. I could see this improving video and graphics quality - for images, games and video. I don't know if this will make it better as an e-book reader.

I don't see this device being a tremendously great e-book reader. I'm waiting for some e-ink ones to come down in price. Nice flashy backlit-LCD screen does not work for me as an ebook reader.

Re:IPS Pannel

[UBfusion]

Being an owner of an S-IPS NEC 26" panel, and after having paid 3x the price of a "normal" monitor (plus shipping from Germany), I can attest that less than 2% of my colleagues/friends (even computer shop owners) know what an IPS panel is. They think I am a NEC fanboi.

And what does "better" in your context mean, when you cannot put side-to-side an Apple and a non-Apple device/computer/appliance and see for yourself, or interpret screen quality measurements?

It's all apples and oranges - oranges are just cheaper apples without the fairy dust.

Linux may rule this space quickly...

[xeno]

...because it already has a lot of presence. It's not like we're going to be seeing a lot of clunky nerd-only devices in this space, not after years of trial-error-improvement cycles from major device mfrs (HP, IBM, Sharp, etc etc). And it's a natural evolution from the Kindle, Zaurus, your cable box and routers, etc etc and all those doodads that already run Linux behind the scenes. Admittedly, I'm overly impressed with the Nokia N900 -- particularly because of the Debian connection. The N900 is already a small multifunction tablet with gobs of power, memory, and near-laptop-function in a cellphone. If I could have it larger form with a BT headset, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It's *exactly* the use case scenarios that Apple has in mind for the iPad, but linux takes away the artificial functional limitations.

Add onto that the idea that I could load any of the thousands of linux apps in deb format. Add to that the momentum from Ubuntu and its ilk, and recent news about consolidation of efforts between players such as Nokia & Intel (Moblin & Maemo). And add to that the subtle threshold that Linux has crossed in terms of ease of use. To wit: Adding software? Permissions are managed far less obtrusively than Win7. Connecting a camera & syncing photos? The experience is eerily OSX-like. Using a audio/video player? Eerily Apple-like, but without the DRM bullsh!t. Adding a scanner to Linux is now a no-click experience (Xsane figures out what drivers/interfaces you need and configures anything available automagically). OOo 3.2 is feature-competitive with Office 2007 (with the exception of the playskool ribbon). Linux has been more flexible & stable for the better part of a decade, and is now easier to use than Win7 or even Apple in many, possibly most, instances. With the cost savings, why in the heck would designers NOT move to Linux?

Re:Linux may rule this space quickly...

[Anonymous Coward]

>With the cost savings, why in the heck would designers NOT move to Linux?

Because the users aren't.

Re:Linux may rule this space quickly...

[EvanED]

OOo 3.2 is feature-competitive with Office 2007 (with the exception of the playskool ribbon).

And Impress/PowerPoint.

Re:Awesome - crappy Linux Gui design with a tablet

[waambulance]

i cant wait. a decent gui for my cheetos-stained fingers typing out shellcode while watching the newest episode of The Bachelor. i dont even have to leave my bed now.

What about the UI

[MikeMo]

This post totally ignores the value of the software and user interface on the iPad. It distills the value of all devices down the hardware, and whether or not the applications will have DRM-d data files. Thereby, it devalues the work of all user interfaces and programmers everywhere.

Re:What about the UI

[dfghjk]

That suggests the iPad has user interface value.

Aside from Apple, who has developed and shipped an iPad app? No one.

Re:What about the UI

[bazaarsoft]

Very few people on this site are the target demographic for the iPad, so for them, he's right. Fugly/hard to use UI is an acceptable tradeoff. OTOH, for the tens of millions that don't want a laptop or something that they have to experiment with to make work easily, there's the iPad. If you're looking for non-partisan discussions of the iPad, you have the wrong site...

Re:What about the UI

[Anonymous Coward]

how did this get modded interesting?

Re:What about the UI

[indiechild]

This is Slashdot. UI is for weak-willed whiners and pussies.

Re:What about the UI

[indiechild]

There's a lot more geeks open minded enough about usability and user interfaces these days. I've seen a lot of my geek friends change over to Macs and iPhones over the years. I have no doubt quite a few of them will be using iPads soon.

Re:What about the UI

[am 2k]

I'm pretty sure there are some apps that have already been developed, since the SDK has been available for some time now. Of course they can't ship them unless they actually have tested it on a device.

Re:What about the UI

[am 2k]

That'd be great, a command line-only interface on a touchscreen-only device :).

Re:What about the UI

[jrothwell97]

No one.

Apart from everyone listed here.

Re:What about the UI

[Wovel]

I think you will find quite a few developers with iPad apps shipping at the exact time that Apple ships some. Real developers, with real applications that actually do things people want to do.

Close...

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't we so lucky to have Apple around to invent everything for us?

It takes Apple to invent the device (hardware). It takes others to get it right (-DRM, etc). :)

How can it not work out this way?

[roc97007]

> I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones are going to kill off single purpose devices like dedicated eReaders such as Amazon's Kindle and GPS devices within the next three years. How can it not work out this way?

Well, one way it wouldn't work out that way is if the general purpose devices really suck at things like ereaders and GPS and so forth. It's not enough to have the device, the applications have to be there, and they have to work well, and in some cases they have to work well together. And both the hardware and applications have to be reasonably priced. These things are not assured.

ARM tablet

[ChristTrekker]

I'd like to see a NetBSD powered ARM tablet, myself. Or ARM netbook. My guess is you could squeeze it in a smaller footprint, thus have more resources for user apps.

The article says a power cord costs extra.

[fredmosby]

From the Article:
I tell a lie though. The Apple iPad isn't really $499. Just adding a power cord to the iPad will cost you $29.00. No, I'm not making that up. Really, Apple, you couldn't throw in a power cord? Shame on you.

This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. According to the tech specs 10 watt USB power adapter is included in the box.

Re:The article says a power cord costs extra.

[David Jao]

From the Article:

I tell a lie though. The Apple iPad isn't really $499. Just adding a power cord to the iPad will cost you $29.00. No, I'm not making that up. Really, Apple, you couldn't throw in a power cord? Shame on you.

This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. According to the tech specs 10 watt USB power adapter is included in the box.

Are we reading the same page? The 10 watt USB power adapter is listed under "iPad Accessories". You have to pay extra for it.

Re:The article says a power cord costs extra.

[sg3000]

From the Article:

I tell a lie though. The Apple iPad isn't really $499. Just adding a power cord to the iPad will cost you $29.00. No, I'm not making that up. Really, Apple, you couldn't throw in a power cord? Shame on you.

This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. According to the tech specs 10 watt USB power adapter is included in the box.

Are we reading the same page? The 10 watt USB power adapter is listed under "iPad Accessories". You have to pay extra for it.

I think it's an accessory if you want to buy a second one. The tech specs page says that a 10W USB power adapter is included in the box.

Apple is closer to Nike than to Ford.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, you can't compare them at all.

Henry Ford competed on price alone. He did this by vastly improving the efficiency of the manufacturing process. He also paid his workers a better-than-average wage, which helped him attract and keep the best talent, and which had the side effect of basically creating the American middle class.

Apple does not compete on price. After all, its products are typically 3 to 4 times as expensive as its competitors' products, while typically being a fraction as powerful, and a fraction as capable.

Apple is closer to Nike than it is to Ford. Their offering really isn't that special. They do add a few trivial trinkets (like air pumps or air packs in Nike's case), and stick their logo on it (like Nike's swoosh), and slap on huge amounts of marketing to trick stupid people into buying an otherwise overpriced and unremarkable product.

Re:Apple is closer to Nike than to Ford.

[svtdragon]

Let's not forget that they both use child labor in China.

Re:Apple is closer to Nike than to Ford.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are typically 3 to 4 thousand times as dumb as the average snail. You are really fucking stupid.

Re:Apple is closer to Nike than to Ford.

[The End Of Days]

After all, its products are typically 3 to 4 times as expensive as its competitors' products, while typically being a fraction as powerful, and a fraction as capable.

This kind of hyperbole inspired my signature.

Re:Hardware clones - yes. Clones .. no

[dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv]

As a UK reader, those tariffs look shocking. I thought 3g was expensive here, but they don't even sell less than 1gb (between £5-£15, depending on plan) here.

Always tradeoffs

[proxima]

I'm a big fan of Linux (been running it as my primary OS for over a decade), yet I'm still getting an iPad. I don't like Apple's closed nature at all, but I've been on the lookout for a way to nicely read (and annotate) PDFs since the Kindle DX came out. My price point is about $500, and right up until they announced the price I thought that there was no way Apple would have the cheapest model be that price. I really like eink screens, but they seem better suited to linear reading of books rather than referencing PDFs.

The one really nice thing about the Apple store model and Apple's general market share is that you can be sure there will be serious app support. My Nokia phone (e63) runs Symbian and lets me run whatever I want on it, but most of the software out there (including the included software) is really bad. So it's not enough for a company (especially a small one) to release a device - it needs to have good software. The Barnes and Noble Nook is another example - great hardware (relative to the Kindle), but the initial software was terrible (didn't even support bookmarks after turning it off!).

Real tablets - that is, computers running full OSes like Windows or Linux - just aren't compelling to me. I want something thin and light for reading with good battery life, not a replacement for my 14" laptop. Aside from that, the Linux software I use would be absolutely horrid with a touch screen (you'd basically need a stylus for everything). I have some hope for various Android devices, but as of January most of these were still basically rough prototypes.

That said, it was clear when the iPad was announced that this wasn't a product for everybody. Not everyone wants or needs a separate device primarily for consuming media. I suspect the keyboard will be painful for all but the shortest of sessions; even movie watching will be somewhat awkward without a case helping to hold it in place at a good angle. Some people do legitimately need multitasking support the iPad doesn't provide (at least not yet). But relative to the Kindle DX, it seems much more compelling for my use. This is especially due to the app support: two companies have already announced iPad-specific PDF readers as replacements for the built-in reader (and the latter program supports annotations).

Apple's mobile devices get good app support because the install base is large and the number of devices are small. As I understand it, UI layout is done by pixel, allowing for very precise placement but horrible problems if you try to support many resolutions. With Android on everything from 3" smartphones to 5" Dell minis to 10" netbooks/tablets all at various resolutions even within a screen size (see, e.g. the Droid's awesome resolution), it's going to be tricky.

As an ereader (provided you're okay with the better-than-netbook-worse-than-eink IPS screen), the iPad looks almost ideal. You get Apple's bookstore, BN's bookstore (they officially announced they'll have an ipad-specific version ready about the time of the release), and likely an Amazon Kindle app (among other smaller ebook stores). If they drop the price on a Nook or Kindle within a year or two I can totally see picking one of those up to complement the iPad for pleasure reading. The Kindle app (and probably the BN app, I'm not sure), keeps track of what page you're on. You use any device and pick up where you left off. There is not (yet) any BN or Kindle app for Android or Linux/X11. If you don't like DRM books, that's fine - you'll be able to read whatever non-DRM ebooks you can find on the iPad (as opposed to more limited ebook readers).

As for the app store, I agree that Apple's effective censorship is very annoying. I'd love to have ssh/scp and a few other apps without needing to jailbreak the device. At this point Apple can't just open it up though, they'd get a lot of flack for that. Instead, they need a way out; I'd love to see them make

Replace all GPS units?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, call me old school. I can't see hiking with an iPad instead of a hand-held GPS.

Re:Replace all GPS units?

[mmcxii]

The kinds of people who are really going to ante up for the iPad use their cell phones for GPS already.

me too

[Anonymous Coward]

I want what that guy said, but throw in the web browser, mp3 player, wifi, and bluetooth.

Extra points for a slide out keyboard like on the n900!

What do you DO with an iPad?

[Colin Smith]

I don't get it.

As far as I can see, it's a consume only device. You can read ebooks, and watch videos, browse web pages, but anything which requires any sort of textual interaction will be a pain in the arse.

So it's a mobile media displayer? That's it?

 

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[plalonde2]

Yes. Unless you also count "easy data entry tablet" through the numbers app.

But yes. Mobile media display, iTunes remote control, web browsing. In a stable platform that I don't have to screw with.

That's a lot of "That's it".

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[gilgongo]

So it's a mobile media displayer? That's it?

My prediction: it'll meet with a similar fate to Apple TV. It's bravely entering the market to change the game, but there's there's no real game to change.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[dfghjk]

Nothing that isn't already provided by an iPhone or iPod touch.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[mdwh2]

Exactly. And, FFS, people should stop with the "clones" nonsense. These aren't Ipad clones. How can you clone something that isn't even released yet? They're no more clones than the Ipad itself is a clone of previous products.

It was annoying when people did this for Apple's Iphone, as if they invented phones (!), but now we have it when the product isn't even released.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[jyoull]

You add the little stand-with-keyboard dock thingy for making gobs of text.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/IPAD_KBDOCK

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[Bemopolis]

Except the ability to create and edit iWork documents, at small additional expense.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[weston]

As far as I can see, it's a consume only device. You can read ebooks, and watch videos, browse web pages, but anything which requires any sort of textual interaction will be a pain in the arse.

Unless you plug in a keyboard.

And to go beyond that.... I realize here on Slashdot when we talk about iPhone apps, we mostly like to talk about fart apps and apps that have been banned from the app store, rather than any specific apps which do things, because that lets everybody argue about whether Apple is THE MOST EVIL COMPANY IN I/T TODAY EVEN MICROSOFT ZOMG or TOTALLY AWESOME YOU UNAPPRECIATIVE PHILISTINES. But the fact is that even among people who like to create things, the iPhone and iPod Touch have found a pretty great niche. Yeah, if you're writing code or text, touch is a terrible interface, but if you're creating visuals or audio, a touch screen is a fantastic interface, with arguable advantages over a mouse and PC keyboard, and the creative communities *I'm* familiar with are still pretty enthusiastic about the Cocoa Touch platform in general.

So, yeah. The iPad or something pretty much like it will find a place with musicians and visual artists, and given that the iPad will be in stores in a few weeks and have a notable brand and advertising attached, I suspect it will do well enough. Moreover, many people who have one will probably even be quite satisfied with it. Yes, even if it lacks some feature you find UTTERLY ESSENTIAL HOW CAN ANYONE LIVE WITHOUT THAT AND PUT UP WITH THE TYRANNY BLAH BLAH BLAH....

Don't know if it's for me, yet, though. I'll have to try a keyboard, see what the reading experience is like, and weigh my options regarding mobile connectivity.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[NatasRevol]

That's ok. None of the clones are released yet either.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[R3d M3rcury]

Good point. You can use it with a keyboard and enter text. Of course, if you want to include, say, the pictures off of your iPhone, you'll have to e-mail them to yourself.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[mosb1000]

The iPhone is really small, it iPad is not.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[jedidiah]

It's a device that is the manifestation of everything Apple was complaining about in it's original Macintosh commercial.

Whether or not "arstsy types" can be suitably accomodated by such a platform remains to be seen.

It may take more than just a different input method.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[Kitkoan]

I don't get it.

As far as I can see, it's a consume only device. You can read ebooks, and watch videos, browse web pages, but anything which requires any sort of textual interaction will be a pain in the arse.

So it's a mobile media displayer? That's it?

Why do people want it? Marketing, a lots of it. Thats why people want it. Think, how much media hype has there been about this iPad? Not just in commercials, but in the news and how this unknown (at the time) device will be completely revolutionary and change the way anyone lives.In reality, after all the buzz, it's just an iTouch XL. And at the moment it can literally only do the exact same things, but everyone is still in the 'wow' phase of the marketing campaign speaking about all the things that it MIGHT do, allowing their imaginations run wild about all the possibilities and things they will supposedly do. People see this and think it will improve their lives, forgetting that their laptop/smartphone already does all these things just as easy or possibly even more easier without spending hundreds of more dollars. Just like how people by all sorts of junk items that they swear they will use and either never do or only use minimally. Look around yourself and be honest, how much stuff around you do you see that when you bought you swore you would use and it will change your life for the better, and now its sitting there either disused or no where near to the full extent you had imagined it would before you had it. While most people love to claim that they can't be swayed by a marketing campaign, the reality is different. Its the 'wow' effect that a good marketing campaign causes to sell an item. Think of every fad that came and went. It didn't take an amazing item, it took a slick marketing with the biggest example of this being the Pet Rock from the 70's. If I remember right it was a challenge to see how what marketing can do to sell an item and the Pet Rock was born.

Want a better example? Think of the biggest 'must have' items YOU want. A fancy car is typical, but why? So you can spend your entire paycheck on gas that it will burn since most fancy cars are horrible on gas? Or to mentally look like James Bond/Hugh Hefner with all the ladies/ect, or those fantasy drives in the wilderness surrounded by nature you see in those Jeep/ect commercials? Big house maybe? So you can spend 24/7 cleaning that much space? Or to live the fantasy high life in the movies of beautiful designed rooms (that you can't afford) with a family that is sickly sweet and never fights? Or throwing house parties that would pack a small town in so everyone knows your name and you know everyone and having the ultimate time of your life?

The basics of any marketing campaign are to create a demand by making the object either improve your life, wonder how you ever survived without this object, or wow your imagination to make you fantasize of the endless uses of the product (regardless of what it's true limitations are).

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[Wovel]

Or just use the little dock connector with a usb port and SD card slot. learn before posting, it will make you look smarter.

Re:What do you DO with an iPad?

[emj]

Actually there are several Linux ARM tablets released, they have just been to expensive and low powered to really matter. It's just now that we have fast enough ARM processors, iPad manage to drive 1024x768 that requires lots of CPU/GPU that haven't been available.

$30 Power cord?

[MrTripps]

Seriously? They charge you an extra $30 for a power cord? I'm guessing the high price for the iPad is for the early adopting Mac fan boys. In a couple of months the price will drop just like it did on the iPhone. I still don't want one.

Re:$30 Power cord?

[pbjones]

head out the sand time, it's the same connector as the cheap and nasty cord that came with my External HD case, so I can use that, or I can use the same cord that came with my laptop. $30 for a 6ft cord, yep it's a bit much, but I don't have to buy one from Apple. Like I don't have to buy DRM content, I can fill an iPad with mp3s and PDFs. Selling a few of my current computers and buying something that suits my changing lifestyle, more mobile.

Re:$30 Power cord?

[JonJ]

No, they do not charge extra for the power cord, it's listed in the tech specs. I cannot understand why they still let Nichols comment on anything, he's clueless.

So according to this summary...

[Moheeheeko]

why by a few things that do stuff really well when i can buy one thing that does all of it poorly?

Re:Check List--Not Worth-It

[Anonymous Coward]

From personal experience, I can say that desktop penetration is unhygienic, taboo in almost every culture, and --what's worse--totally unenjoyable.

You need one of these: http://web.archive.org/web/20070102203554/http://www.fu-fme.com/

I'm about as pro-apple as it gets....

[fauxhammer]

and I expect that, like the iPhone, competitive advantage the iPad will have is a slick, responsive interface that is well thought out and elegant. That said, I'm extremely, extremely skeptical about it overtaking the Kindle, let alone printed books, because it's just not as comfortable to read off of a backlit LCD as it is to read a high quality reflective display like the one the Kindle uses.

Standard Disclaimer: I support and repair Macs for a living.

No DRM on the Linux version?

[DoktorFaust]

On top of that, Apple will be including DRM on some eBooks and other iPad content.

Oh, that's fantastic! You mean the Linux versions will offer the same books without DRM?

Didn't think so.

Re:No DRM on the Linux version?

[Arthur Grumbine]

On top of that, Apple will be including DRM on some eBooks and other iPad content.

Oh, that's fantastic! You mean the Linux versions will offer the same books without DRM?

Yes, it's a revolutionary new product called BitTorrent, paired with a service called The Pirate Bay. It's pretty new, so it's not unusual that you haven't heard of it. Unfortunately, no such app exists for the iPhad/iPone

Re:No DRM on the Linux version?

[DoktorFaust]

Oh *snap*! Of course, I'll just steal the content since its not legally available on my Linux version... man, you really got me there!

Re:No DRM on the Linux version?

[Arthur Grumbine]

Or, since the question was about DRM, you could just purchase it legally, and then use the DRM-free version to save backups, transfer between devices, do-whatever-you-want-that-the-DRM-would-normally-prevent. But, no, wait - now that I think about it I like the idea of accusing everyone who doesn't consume content in the same manner as yourself of being thieves. That's much more productive. Bravo, to you, sir! You truly are a credit to geeks everywhere!

Linux handheld devices...

[kuzb]

...typically fail because the people making them don't want to make them perfect the first time. This is where Apple wins. They may not have the most feature rich devices. They may not give the user the most freedom. However, they do tend to focus on a very specific set of capabilities and produce a product which meets that criteria really well. Contrast that to Linux devices which try to do everything and wind up accomplishing half-assed software which is then pushed off to the userbase to fix and improve.

Dirt friendly devices

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you take your iPad or all purpose device camping or canoeing instead of a sturdy GPS device. Those will never be fully replaced. eBook readers will still apply until they find a way to make LCD screen more book reader friendly.

Clones?

[rxan]

I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones...

Wow. The iPad was revealed only after other tablets in the category had been revealed, such as the HP Slate and the Joojoo, yet they are the clones. Nothing seems to be able to escape the distortion field -- not even a Linux enthusiast.

Re:Clones?

[ipX]

Wow. The iPad was revealed only after other tablets in the category had been revealed, such as the HP Slate and the Joojoo, yet they are the clones. Nothing seems to be able to escape the distortion field -- not even a Linux enthusiast.

Thank you. I was just about to post about how silly this is. It shows how powerful the Apple marketing machine is. They're apparently a trendsetter, even though we've seen similar (real and concept) devices in the past. Everything that comes after the iPad is doomed to be a 'clone'. *sigh*

Re:And You Look Like A Loser To The Rest Of The Wo

[microcars]

My wife uses a MacBook Air and there are times it is TOO BIG!
She spends a lot time just reading things. and she sits on the couch and tries to balance the MacBook AIR on her lap and it is STILL TOO BIG!

She is getting an iPad. Sounds like a winner for her too.

So I guess she is a moron and a loser to the rest of the world? Oh well, at least she is not a coward.

Delegating layout policy to the toolkit

[tepples]

consider menu (or button) bar placement.

Smart decisions in GUI toolkit design allow a single element to adapt to several different control placement policies. Consider a toolkit where a menu bar is a row of buttons, and a window is a box with two rows: the menu and the client area. That will not easily adapt to different policies. But consider a different toolkit is designed such that an application associates a menu bar with a window without saying where it goes. Delegating this policy to the toolkit lets the menu bar end up where it belongs: at the top of the screen (like Mac), between the title bar and the client area (like Windows), at the bottom of the screen (like Newton), or below the client area where a PC web browser's status bar fits (like upside-down Windows).

Re:Delegating layout policy to the toolkit

[NatasRevol]

You're still missing the point.

Most iPhone/iPad apps DON'T HAVE A MENU BAR. Or a minimal one at best.

None of the WinMo, or most of the Android apps know how to deal without a menu bar.

"50 ARM-processor-powered iPad clones"

[Ukab the Great]

Wouldn't a 50 arm processor-powered iPad clone be really heavy and go through its battery life in 5 minutes?

Re: "50 ARM-processor-powered iPad clones"

[Wovel]

You deserve a funny :)

Sandpaper==Toiletpaper??

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they compare all these things to e-readers these days. Have these people ever used an e-reader? They just end up looking stupid. An e-reader is a unique sort of device.

They're like sandpapers salesman that are telling you, well, your going to spend money on toilet paper anyway, so why not just by sandpapers instead. You can sand wood and wipe your butt with it! Sandpapers is way better than toilet paper!!

When the second paragraph is factually wrong

[geekoid]

I won't read the rest of the article.

Re:When the second paragraph is factually wrong

[ultrabot]

I won't read the rest of the article.

New here?

Kill off ebook readers?

[nurb432]

Not unless they have color e-ink. There is still something to be said about the readability of e-ink compared to LCD.

But, it might bring the price down on kindles..

Pixel Qi screen -- better than Kindle

[hmbJeff]

See the Adam device from Notion Ink. It will ship with a Pixel Qi screen that works in reflective mode (like the e-ink screen on a Kindle) in sunlight. However, unlike e-ink, it can also run in full color with normal video-friendly refresh rates, just by turning on the backlight. You get the best of both worlds, including very low power usage when running in reflective mode. On most Pixel Qi devices this switching on and off of the backlight can be done manually or automatically with an ambient light sensor. The Adam device runs Android, rather than a direct Linux OS.

Re:Pixel Qi screen -- better than Kindle

[Brian Stretch]

Nice! That's going to the top of my toy list. Kindles, even my Kindle DX, make very poor web browsers. Only for last-resort use IMHO. The Adam looks ideal for general web reading.

Some people can stare at regular LCD screens all day without trouble. Maybe even most people. I'm not one of them.

Star Trek device

[MrKaos]

It looks to me like another device from Star Trek is making it's way to reality.

I stopped myself by digging out my old tc1100

[grapeape]

I wanted an iPad, and was reading up on tablets in general when I remembered a 6 year old HP tablet I had stashed away because it was simply dreadful under XP. For fun I dug it out, charged it up and started looking around to see if there were any hacks for it. Decided to upgrade the ram and drives with parts I had on hand then installed Windows 7 (the only windows device in my house) and after playing with it in its renewed form, im kind of over the iPad. I still may pick one up in a few generations but what I had and had nearly forgotten lets me do what I want to do with it, has plenty of "apps" available and seems speedy enough, the only thing missing is the 3g card which I can add via either the cardbus slot or usb ports. My biggest question is why did it take 6 years for something that at least in its current form appears to be step backwards? Perhaps the a4 will prove much faster than the 1.2 centrino in the tc1100 and the battery life will certainly be better but the lack of features just makes at least the first generation a skippable device.

Re:I stopped myself by digging out my old tc1100

[moonbender]

Two times the weight.

Three times the money.

A quarter battery runtime.

Re:I stopped myself by digging out my old tc1100

[grapeape]

Umm dont you mean 1/3rd the money? I was checking ebay to see if they are worth anything anymore, they seem to go for around $200 complete. The battery life is alot shorter (around 3 hours) but for the difference in price I could buy 7 extra batteries.

I never said it was optimal...just more functional..thats my issue. Im a mac guy, im typing on a 24" inch imac now, my wife has a mac and one of my kids has a mac its not like im an Apple hater...just disappointed.

Re:I stopped myself by digging out my old tc1100

[moonbender]

Well, you said that things went backwards from 6 years ago. They didn't. Stuff got lighter, more energy-efficient and much, much cheaper. That was the point.

Re:I stopped myself by digging out my old tc1100

[grapeape]

I can appreciate that but other than battery life it seems that lighter and cheaper mainly came about through the loss of features. Im sure it will sell like crazy, and as I said I plan to get one in future generations of the device when it inevitably adds the features that were left out, but the first generation just seems so underwhelming.

it's not just mouse and keyboard anymore.

[fsamurai]

People can run linux on pretty much anything, that doesn't change the fact that interfaces aren't being adapted to new interaction paradigms. I have a toshiba tablet laying around, I can get enlightment going (which is the only WM that has *any* tablet environment worth mentioning, ie: a proper on-screen keyboard, a sane task bar for a tablet interface, just to name the bare minimums) which is all nice an dandy, but when the time comes to use any application (from your standard text editor to open office or even your web browser) the interface is exactly the same as it's desktop counter-part. actually it's not a counter-part, it's the exact same app, and that's the gist of it right there. The effort to adapt applications to a tablet paradigm is simply null (care to correct me /.?). you can have your window manager, but if developers don't start to adapt their interfaces linux won't only be behind the curve, it will fall behind pretty badly. I'm mentioning linux but any tablet running win7 will suffer from the same problem. is there a custom version of office for the HP slate? no. is there a version of iwork for the iPad? Yes. on a side note: the auhor through out the entire article bashes DRM and then uses Flash as a punchline to make a point. slightly hypocritical, on one hand he hates DRM and the freedom it takes away and on the other condones the use of proprietary formats on the web. I wish people were consistent as to were they stand regarding freedom.

Re:Ok, where are they??? An answer of sorts

[SargentDU]

You say you've waited for years, well, you could wait some more. As you should know, technology gets lower cost as you wait. So eventually you can get your reader at lower cost and be free of DRM then too. You could download the classics from the free pdf format sites (Project Gutenberg is one) and have great value, if you are a little more patient.

I just bought an ebook reader instead of an iPad

[renfrow]

Have any of you simulated an iPad, to see what size it's going to be? I have and love my ipod Touch, and was fully planning on getting one when they came out. But, I wanted to make sure it was going to fit the pockets that I'd be (or attempting to) putting it in. I cut a sheet of paper to the iPad's dimensions (Height: 9.56 inches (242.8 mm) Width: 7.47 inches (189.7 mm)). It's HUGE! Well, relatively speaking. I have no pockets that it would fit into. It's not going to be blowing any ebook readers out of the water at that size. If I were in school, toting around a book bag anyway, it'd be no big deal, and probably a good choice, but, for me, it's too large. A 600x800 screen in a 7.5x5 inch form factor would have been perfect, which is about the size of the reader I got instead.

Tom.

Not Apple -- Microsoft!

[NicknamesAreStupid]

This is most likely to marginalize Microsoft even further. The big desktop boxes and laptops will still belong mostly to Microsoft, but anything more portable will be tough sledding for Redmond. Intel might not get much market share either, certainly not a dominant share.

Stinky sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Sig: "SARAH PALIN WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOU."

That's lucky for me. I'd rather go para-sailin'.

There are plenty of other things Sarah Fey, Tina Palin, ehhh... Sarah Palin will not do, such as think carefully.

Why do people think tablets are the same as eInk?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously it baffles me. Even if you can't see the difference (and seriously, you must be blind if you can't), the battery life is an order of magnitude different. I have no idea what the iPad runs for on a single charge (and what's more, I don't give a ****), but seriously it's not a couple weeks of use.

Not to mention the lack of eyestrain, etc. from an eBook reader with eInk, yeah, there's no way a tablet is going to replace many single purpose devices. I bet my Cowon A3 eats the iPad's lunch on media playback too.

Linux-powered iPad Devices?

[ClosedSource]

It's like saying Linux-powered Dell Device. The iPad is a as yet unavailable large-format portable computing device in a long line of existing large-format portable computing devices. Let's at least wait until a single consumer owns one before before we pretend Apple invented the category.

Re:Ok, where are they??? An answer of sorts

[mmcxii]

That's a pretty weak argument.

While I have been spending a little time in this thread defending the naysayers, simply because they're right in some cases, telling someone they can wait on another promise of Linux superiority have fallen short time after time is no answer. Either Linux needs to step it up and take the brass ring or the community has to admit that they've missed an opportunity. Which is it going to be?

This isn't too far from the Linux on the desktop debate. Those who say that they don't care about Linux on the desktop because it doesn't support their apps are 100% correct. Either the open source needs to answer the call or understand why people go elsewhere for their technology.

As for the idea of there being some non-DRM legal-for-download PDFs? So what? I'm sure these same titles will be importable to the iBooks system. Aside from that it does me no good to be able to download A Tale of Two Cities when I really want Under the Dome. And in some cases it won't do for reasons outside of one's control. Apple would be wise to cut good deals with textbook publishers early on. This is an area where there is no alternative. You can't step into a class room with just any book on trig when the prof wants you to have Trigonometry (9th Edition) by Margaret L. Lial, John S. Hornsby, and David I. Schneider.

Re:Awesome - crappy Linux Gui design with a tablet

[SpzToid]

True! So true! In fact it isn't even necessary to sit up, or even peak out from beneath the covers. Not since Apple has published specs. for a screen--rotation-lock switch!

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/bed-readers-rejoice-ipad-gains-last-minute-rotation-lock.ars

Kill off ereaders

[Venik]

I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones are going to kill off single purpose devices like dedicated eReaders such as Amazon's Kindle and GPS devices within the next three years. How can it not work out this way? For the same price as a high-end dedicated device you can get a tablet that will do everything they can do and far more.

How, you ask? The same way clock radios replaced neither clocks nor radios. Swiss cheese, for example, successfully combines cheese and holes and, yet, makers of hole-less cheese as well as manufacturers of holes are still very much in business. While combining many functions into one product may seem as a fun way to pass the time, sometimes you just want to enjoy good cheese without any holes.

Re:Hardware clones - yes. Clones .. no

[The End Of Days]

Whoever hacks up the iPhone to connect to this plan is going to be an Official Internet Hero.

"Lack of Movement" - revisionist history

[SuperKendall]

See their lack of movement on open music until Amazon & co. got involved.

If by "lack of movement" you mean begging the labels to forgo DRM from the start and pressuring them mercilessly to do so until they gave in, then yes. There wasn't much movement but that wasn't Apple's fault.

In fact Amazon only served to help free us from DRM in that it could do nothing against the iTunes juggernaut and so the labels were forced to remove DRM in trace for more flexible pricing.

GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree that they will kill off dedicated GPS. I believe the iPhone relies on cellphone towers, and the iPod Touch relies on a satellite signal. Not only is it hard to get a satellite signal with the touch, but its not accurate.

Yes, but....

[Heliologue]

Yes, but will it run Linux? Oh, wait....

this isn't rocket science

[alizard]

Leaving out the fact that tablets predate the iPad by quite a bit, the netbook has essentially the same electronics as a tablet requires in different packaging, the main differences being losing the keyboard, adding touchscreen, a slower processor, and a smaller battery.

A typical netbook could probably be hacked into a tablet in a couple of days, and there are probably several dozen of those hacks being floated around Asus and Toshiba and Dell and other places being used as software development platforms as I type this. If you absolutely can't wait for this kind of tablet, but a netbook and look for conversion how-tos and videos around the Net.

As for production, this isn't a full on design from scratch, one starts with a netbook schematic that already exists and put a mechanical engineer on new case design. If one wants it to be a phone, add one as a dongle if the netbook doesn't already have built-in 3G. If one wants the tablet to be a superphone, try downloading Google Android.

Apple's function here is to provide the ad budgets and the leverage to "legitimize" the tablet form factor to the point where one can find it in computer stores. And their environment as a whole for lovers of walled gardens as 'protection' against a scary world.

iPad not an eReader replacement ...

[alangerow]

Saying the iPad & its clones will kill off dedicated eReaders which have specialized hardware that cannot be replicated with software, is like saying the desktop PC will kill off the video game consoles. Whereas the opposite has come true ... video game consoles have pretty much killed PC gaming, and have themselves become less specialized. Reading while staring into a light bulb is not fun after a couple hours ... particularly when you're going to have to be tethered to an outlet more often. We're more likely to see eReaders that incorporate color & faster refresh rates to accomplish more tasks than we are seeing an iPad or clone render the e-Ink eReader market dead. The iPad is ultimately targeting a different market than the eReaders. There may be cross-over, but for people who want to read digital books, eReaders will be better ... for people who have an iPad and want to read a book, it'll be "good enough".

I heartily disagree with this guy.

[gurps_npc]

He said "For the same price as a high-end dedicated device you can get a tablet that will do everything they can do and far more."

1. Apple is and has NEVER been the low price provider. They will never undercut anyone.

2. Apple clones tend to be cheaper, but they never become killer products. If you want an apple like idea you pay up for the original See the itune.

3. His major belief, that tablet computers will continue to get cheaper is true, BUT SO WILL THE EREADERS. This guy is comparing the newest tablet to a year old technology. Already there is talk of a new chip that will bring the costs of ereaders down to $100 with 12 months. The apple product will continue to be around $500, while their clones may hit $300.

At heart an ereader is a MUCH simpler device than a tablet. They need minimal screens, minimal internet connection speeds, minimal everything. Right now it LOOKS like the ereader is close in price to a netbook becaue you are ignoring the ereader's major benefit - long battery life.

In conclusion, no, Apple will definitely NOT undercut the ereaders. Neither will the apple clones. Ereaders is a product that is here to stay and their price will continue to drop quicker than tablet PCS do.

Re:I heartily disagree with this guy.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Apple is and has NEVER been the low price provider. They will never undercut anyone.

Apple is.

Remember the first Apple Mini? it comes with wifi, bluetooth, cd-rw/dvd-rw, dual-core, and extremely small form factor, at the time, the cheapest competition was $100+ more expensive. (It was the cheapest solution for mini pc, but today there're lots of cheap alternatives)

Remember the first Apple iPod? it comes with 4G/8G storage and at the time, the cheapest equivalent competition was not even available or $100+ more expensive. (It was the cheapest solution for a huge-storage mp3 player, but today there're lots of cheap alternatives)

Apple *is* the low price provider, because when it releases a product, no competition provide *the same feature* at a lower price. The *similiar feature* clones often come one or two years later, and only at that time, apple become pricy since apple has not dropped the price.

IMO E-Ink is way over hyped.

[guidryp]

I have more than a decade looking at CRT/LCDs for 10+ hours day. I have read entire novels on a Palm Pilot for up to 5 hours continuously all without any eye issues.

To me E-Ink looks like some kind of Cyberpunk tech I would have seen in the movie Brazil

B&W, low contrast, 1 second refresh.

Let's just say I wouldn't buy stock in E-Ink.

Re:IMO E-Ink is way over hyped.

[alangerow]

"B&W, low contrast, 1 second refresh. Let's just say I wouldn't buy stock in E-Ink." Because technology never improves and always remains exactly the same as its initial consumer level implementation? I guess people who didn't buy stock in PC companies because they had 320x200 B&W text-only displays are sitting smugly now because they didn't waste their money on that worthless PC market.

Re:IMO E-Ink is way over hyped.

[toriver]

People buying the technology tells the manufacturer: "We do not need to improve this". People NOT buying the technology tells them: "We need to improve this". Which of these brings improvement?

Or buy DRM free from iTunes.

[SuperKendall]

The XKCD argument holds just as well if you simply buy DRM free content from iTunes. It's yours to keep, forever.

LCD is fine if you pay attention to light

[SuperKendall]

I can read off my Kindle's e-ink screen with considerably less eye strain than reading off a backlit LCD. Backlights are hard on your eyes.

No they are not. Not inherently.

What is hard on your eyes is trying to read things from a poor display (fuzzy or flickering). Or if you take advantage of the fact LCD's self-illuminate to read when it's way too dark around you, for too long.

The nice thing about the Apple stuff is that it always adjusts brightness (as much as it can) for ambient illumination to help prevent strain. But if you simply give your iPad as much light as you would give a Kindle or other eInk reader, I think you'll find there's not much eyestrain at all. And with IPS displays, the display should be very crisp and easy to read. The fact that it works a lot quicker, and supports color are major improvements to books - even fiction books these days will often have diagrams and things, and It's a lot nicer to be able to read in color.

Re:LCD is fine if you pay attention to light

[indiechild]

I was a bit disappointed in the rather low-res nature of the iPad display. I wish they'd gone for something like 150dpi or higher, like the Kindle. I suppose the iPad can make up for that in part through anti-aliasing -- I wonder if it'll use subpixel anti-aliasing? IPS display is superb, but I sort of treated that as a given.

I too am hoping the ambient light adjustment works superbly on the iPad, but I'll have to wait and see. It's fairly horrible and unreliable on my 2G iPhone at the moment.

Where's the epaper

[funkysoulbrother]

Until they have epaper, they won't kill ebook readers. Until epaper is faster, they won't have epaper...

We got what you need

[SuperKendall]

True. That's why every time Apple makes the news for rejecting a class of applications, I become less likely to buy a device running iPhone OS.

Hint, instead of needing Wobble iBoobs, you can very likely find the same material on the internet.

Or simply jailbreak it like a few million people do with iPhones.

Re:We got what you need

[indiechild]

I don't understand why people encourage jailbreaking. I think it's completely pointless. There are other great phones out there -- if Apple devices don't let you run what you want, just use something else. The way I see it, jailbreaking makes your iPhone potentially unstable and introduces vulnerabilities.
Yet I know a fair few geeks who are crazy about jailbreaking and proceed to load up their iPhone with lots of weird utilities and other junk that runs in the background. It baffles me -- I think they could be a lot more productive on something like the N900 or the Google Nexus.

I love my iPhone and I don't have a use for any of the apps that you can run with jailbreaking, so I'm happy with it in the vanilla state.

"It's an Appliance!"

[mdwh2]

Ah yes, it's the "Ipad is an appliance" trope, that's gaining popularity around here - where "appliance" is so very conveniently defined as "Doing what this Apple product can do, and not not including the things that it can't do."

But since when did an "appliance" need to run applications, surf the Internet, and you know, do exactly the same things as devices that we refer to as a computer? I wish I thought of these tactics back when I was an Amiga fan, and the platform was going tits up - "Oh, the fact that it can't run Flash and Java is an advantage. Oh, and the lack of a decent browser? Well, you see, it's an appliance, you don't need to do the same things that computer does." (See how I cunningly changed the definition of an appliance for the things that Apple can't do, to the things that the Amiga didn't do?)

You're right, it's nothing more than an appliance. It only does what it can do, but misses all the more useful things that computers do. Talking of "appliances", if Apple released a fridge, would Slashdot start covering those too?

The funny thing is that with the Iphone, there were no end of people saying how wonderful it was that their phone was now a computer (evidently completely oblivious to the fact that this was nothing new by 2007, or even, years before that).

Re:"It's an Appliance!"

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

where "appliance" is so very conveniently defined as "Doing what this Apple product can do, and not not including the things that it can't do."

If it's an appliance, every functionality is added functionality. See also: iPod Touch, iPhone

If it's a computer, every restriction is an added restriction. See also: DRM.

They aren't selling it as a computer. Computers are the user's playtoys, and trying to keep up with the user invokes the "the universe creates a bigger idiot" clause of idiot-proofing. Users still want it, so they can find it with Windows/linux/etc.

In the meantime, you want to make a new "computer", you either make a better computer from the existing mold, or you make an appliance that does exactly what it says on the box, and anything else is bonus.

Stop expecting more. Goddamn.

Re:"It's an Appliance!"

[Wovel]

There have been refrigerators with web browsers built in for at least 5 or 10 years now.

Re:"It's an Appliance!"

[david_thornley]

You're missing the point.

For most people, a computer is an appliance. It does web browsing, email, and a few other, similar, things. You refer to "all the more useful things that computers do", but that's not a common viewpoint in the general market.

The definition of "appliance" I'm using is "doing one or more useful functions in a limited way". It's defined not in things it can't do, but things it does well at. Your Amiga wasn't an appliance in this manner, but rather a general-purpose computer. You could make it do all sorts of things, just not necessarily easily.

The iPad is not aimed at Slashdotters. If Apple wanted me to buy an iPad for myself, they'd have made something much different. It's aimed at people who are fine with an appliance that does web browsing, email, light word processing, and so forth. As long as Apple continues to produce real computers, I have no problem with that.

"If Apple released a fridge...." is a sentiment I agree with. The iPad is not intended for Slashdotters. It is intended for a much different market. I'd really rather see a whole lot fewer articles on Apple products that aren't intended for us. There's a lot of things Mom could use that I don't want, and Slashdot doesn't cover most of those.

However, we keep getting Apple articles, about things we're not really interested in, and we get people blaming Apple products for being what they are, rather like blaming my Civic for being unable to haul kitchen appliances.

Smart phone way, way better

[SuperKendall]

A dedicated GPS from a company like Garmin is much better at what it does than a smartphone. Try using your iPhone's GPS to map your location when you're in an area with no cell coverage.

Try? There is no Try. There is only Do.

As in I DO download maps into the device before going into the back country.

Battery life? It was fine for a three day hike, without needing the battery back I brought (or the Solio solar charger I have which is good since it no longer works). Granted I used it somewhat sparingly, but I had it whenever I wanted a location check.

When I traveled to Australia a couple years ago I took a dedicated GPS with me and it worked great. If I'd relied on my smartphone I would have had to have paid for a local data plan and prayed that there was coverage everywhere I was going.

When I travel to England shortly and am driving around the countryside, I'll simply download one of many European navigation apps. I could use Waze, that is free - but frankly the professional applications like Telenav or Navigon or TomTom are far, far better at directing you when traffic is complex - and none of them require a data plan (Well, Waze would actually but it's nice otherwise).

And you see, there is the real point to why the iPhone (or other devices like it) beats out the Garmin - because I don't have to use just the Garmin software. I can use any number of specialized applications, each tailored to the purpose to which they are built for. And if I really don't like how any of them work, I can build my own. People complain about how closed the iPhone is for development but it rather handily beats out the Garmin for an open platform to develop for!

iKill

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like they killed off the iPod and iPhone! Wait...

iPad does not compete with Kindle

[dannys42]

The Kindle offers numerous advantages (cost, longevity, readability) over the iPad. For serious book readers, I there's not going to be a huge dent in Kindle sales.

The iPad will probably suck up any of the "casual" readers in the eBook space. But honestly, I don't think there's a huge amount of casual readers who would pay for the Kindle.

That all changes when/if the Kindle can reach a $100 price point. I don't know if that's possible, but it's certainly more likely than the iPad reaching even $200. There's also the issue of the monthly fee you won't have to deal with on the Kindle.

And while as a hacker, I understand the draw to a system that can run anything. For something like the iPhone and even iPad, I do appreciate the benefits Apple gives us in having a closed system and no multi-tasking. The thing really "just works." I don't have to worry about weird incompatibilities or how to close some backgrounded app that I didn't know was running or whatever. And it's simple to understand. I launch an app, use it for it's function, then leave it.

I've used WindowsCE/Mobile systems before and it was a pain... you're always wondering about your battery life and going into the task manager trying to close apps you thought you left. And having played a little with the Droid, I've seen some apps even in the store that just cause the thing to go dark and unresponsive for 5+ seconds on startup. I thought I broke the thing. For devices like this, as a user, I really don't want to bother with all the crap.

Yes, Apple exerts some dictatorial control for this, which at some times as a developer can be a nuisance. But overall as a user, I'm happier because of it. But I think it has a large part due to Apple's emphasis on user experience. Other companies exerting the same control would likely have much different results.

The ribbon, for instance

[tepples]

Most iPhone/iPad apps DON'T HAVE A MENU BAR. Or a minimal one at best.

I think Office 2007 demonstrated it best: There doesn't need to be a difference between a menu bar and a toolbar.

Here's how it doesn't work out that way

[wgkylep]

" All that said, I agree the iPad is really cool. I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones are going to kill off single purpose devices like dedicated eReaders such as Amazon's Kindle and GPS devices within the next three years. How can it not work out this way? For the same price as a high-end dedicated device you can get a tablet that will do everything they can do and far more." Spoken like someone who doesn't use a Kindle. Let's see, iPad will have shorter battery life, make me pay a monthly fee for a data plan, won't read easily in strong sunlight like a real book ... in other words, not have any of the functionality of what I bought a Kindle for, which was to replace 2 or 3 hardback BOOKS when I get on the plane, not replace my DVD player or laptop.

I'm going to save this thread!

[wfolta]

Not only is it touting vaporware "iPad killers", but it's touting Linux-based coming-to-a-store-near-you iPad killers. Actually, retrofitted Linux-based, no-keyboard iPad killers which will have desktop GUIs.

But wait, there's more: people will buy them rather than the iPad because they want to do the kinds of things you'd do on desktops or laptops with keyboards.

I'll probably lose Karma over this one... I'm usually not this sarcastic, but this thread is so laughable... it's like some kind of super-hero movie where you see 100 kamikaze's on bicycles riding towards Godzilla with shouts of victory on their lips.

Android != Linux

[teknikqa]

Its ridiculous to see people associate Android with Linux. Sure, its based on the kernel, but we know how little Google contributes back. Most of these "iPad clones" are Android devices.

Re:Hardware clones - yes. Clones .. no

[R3d M3rcury]

Of course, they use a different-sized SIM card than the iPhone (smaller) so you can't just pop the SIM card out of your phone and use it with your iPad.

Clever rascals...

Where can I try Nokia N810?

[tepples]

Nokia N810

As Karlt1 pointed out, it's nowhere near the size of an iPad, but it might replace an iPod Touch. I'd like to try one. Which United States electronics chain do you recommend that I visit in order to do so?

Re:Where can I try Nokia N810?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your posts like these are annoying, unless they are favorable to companies I like, in which case they are awesome.

Also, Kenya > Badgers.

Re:Where can I try Nokia N810?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, Kenya > Badgers.

Squirrels > Kenya

I pre-ordered an iPad 3G.

[MikeFM]

I just spent $1000 on an iPad whereas I can't see spending more than $250 for an Android tablet (and probably nothing for any other tablet) because they haven't learned the Linux desktop lesson. They are often incompatible, have poorly designed interface, and allow any random rubbish to clutter things up. Call it flexibility if you want but I call it a crappy user experience. Pay $100 for a developer license or jailbreak your iPhone OS and you can install damn near anything you want. How many people do it? Not many because that isn't what most people want. The only selling point the competition has is cheaper price tags. A smart competitor would mod Android to be as well designed as iPhone including the restrictions and sell a cheaper device.

Re:I pre-ordered an iPad 3G.

[emj]

I just spent $1000 on an iPad ... Pay $100 for a developer license

Think that is per year to actually being able to run a program.. iPhone is hot and pretty nice to use that's about it, if you want to be able to do anything non standard it's not a good phone to buy. Many people here like to do non standard things. Sure if you want expensive mass market then all you need is hot and nice to use, but everything can't be expensive, and I'm glad that what we get is not crippled.

Anyway it's not about Linux it's about ARM selling devices that will be able to run Win Mobile at some point, if the netbook saga is any indicator.

Re:I pre-ordered an iPad 3G.

[MikeFM]

It is per year if you go the developer route. THAT is something I think Apple is dishonest about. Even when you have paid for your developer fee they aren't clear that it's yearly until the next year when they send you a renewal notice. I don't know about non-standard. Like what? As I said you can do anything with it if you care to bother. How many things are truly not allowed? You can get hundreds of thousands of apps for it, write your own, or compile somebody else's program. Jailbroken you can do damn near anything on it. Again, if you're the kind of person that can't manage a jailbreak or to write your own code then you have no business doing 'non standard things' because you'll get yourself in trouble and probably get infected and be a plague to the rest of us. Win Mobile can't be any worse than WinCE. I can't see why anybody would bother supporting it though unless it is better than iPhone and Android which is doubtful. I guess people that only know how to write Windows code and use Microsoft tools might. So you'll get the crappiest programmers writing code for Win Mobile which naturally leads to a worse experience for users. The challenge of writing iPhone code weeds out most of the complete crap although I've noticed that you still get a lot of geeks with no sense of quality. If anything I think Apple should block more from being allowed into the App Store. Crap just makes a worse user experience and takes money away from good developers.

Re:I pre-ordered an iPad 3G.

[Anonymous Coward]

In the car business, we say that people lie high about their house and low about their car. People would always quote how little their brother could buy the same car for. Why didn't they just buy the car from their brother. They would always lie about how much they spent on their house, the when the real-estate market crashed, they talked like they didn't care, because they loved their house and didn't want to sell anyway.

You sound like one of the latter. You overpaid big time, for a devise you could get for under $200 inside a year. I guess it's true, "A fool and his money are soon parted".http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/03/12/2014222/Here-Come-the-Linux-iPad-Clones?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2FslashdotLinux+%28Slashdot%3A+Linux%29#

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Number of slashdotters who'll buy an iPad: 2%
Financial impact to Apple in lost sales: 0
Lesson: Priceless

Why not Android?

[ensiferius]

Why not just base the clones on Android?

It works with touch interfaces.

Apple will sue whoever builds them.

Fun for everybody.

Can I just point out one thing?

[biglig2]

There have been tablets around for years. Years! XP Tablet edition came out in 2002. So did the ProGear Linux tablet.

And did any of you buy one? No. No-one did. Bill Gates - with the unholy power of Microsoft's marketing division - has been trying to persuade people to use Tablet PCs for nine years and no-ones bought one.

So anyone saying that "these new tablets coming out soon will beat the iPad" is flat out insane. You can buy a Linux tablet right now. But none of you do.

Hell, the iPad is the best thing to happen to Linux tablets ever. It'll drive the price down, and make everyone else raise their game when they see it eating into their consumer notebook markets.

Where are they ARM?

[butalearner]

ARM said the same damn thing about netbooks two years ago. Where are they? Show me a viable alternative to current netbooks with an ARM processor at a competitive price and available in the US.

Been there, done that

[Rocketship Underpant]

"The same thing will happen with TabletPCs. If the form factor takes off, most of the netbook manufacturers will rebuild their devices without a keyboard. "

You talk as if the tablet PC is a new emerging category. It's not. It's a failed category that's been around forever, relegated to niche markets like hospitals because it's too clumsy for anything else.

If the iPad succeeds (and I think it will), it will because it's a new device that shares little in common with the moribund tablet PC.

Do? Create.

[SuperKendall]

As far as I can see, it's a consume only device.

Given there are quite a lot of applications oriented to creation today for the iPhone, I'm not sure why you would think that.

Typing on the phone is not as hard as you think, and typing on the larger screen will be pretty easy.

But drawing will be much nicer, and the device is not just inherently a read-only thing... it's going to be pretty popular to draw or do other things with.

Pointless? It is the point!!

[SuperKendall]

I don't understand why people encourage jailbreaking. I think it's completely pointless. There are other great phones out there -- if Apple devices don't let you run what you want, just use something else.

On the other hand, Apple does a REALLY good job with hardware and software combinations. The development library is very rich and you can use all of it (and then some) on a jailbroken phone. Heck, it's an argument even just to be a developer since I can use any private frameworks I like with software I just build for myself.

So Jailbreaking lets you use great hardware, combined with the largest mobile software base around, combined with the ability to do truly anything you want.

Frankly, I don't see the point of complaining the hardware and software is great but then overlooking jailbreaking as a reason to get the device.

Muscle Boost

[nicolassed]

That's the key to those explosive muscles in a nutshell. It doesn't matter if you work to your point of fatigue and failure, if nutrients aren't getting in to feed that muscle tissue those muscles just aren't going to grow. Muscle Boost

I agree...

[fyngyrz]

...has yet to learn that costumization is a bad thing

Myself, I prefer stockings and garters, maybe a nice corset. Costumization can add a lot to your evening!

Missing the point, and clones may not be cheaper

[gig]

The point of the iPad is not ARM, or flash storage, or Wi-Fi/Bluetooth, or 3G. Yes, you can get all of those parts from someone else. And you can replace OS X with Linux. But nobody but Apple has built the layer of software on top of that, which is completely lacking from Linux. And nobody but Apple has built a 3rd party software library like App Store. And nobody else has created something where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, which iPad clearly is.

Also, the blasé prediction that Linux versions will be cheaper is very optimistic. If you spend $50 less than an iPad 3G right now you get a Nexus One with hardly any storage. Even if you skimp on the software, it's very hard to get under the $500 price point.

Kill off e-ink readers? No.

[aussersterne]

My wife and I own two e-ink readers, a Kindle and a Sony PRS-300. Mine has over 800 books in it, and I read constantly with it. She has a netbook. I have a Thinkpad and an iPhone.

Neither of us has real interest in an iPad, nor would we purchase it instead of an e-ink reader if we had it to do all over again.

It's a computer, not a book. A Kindle is a book, not a computer.

Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

[quote]I predict with absolute faith that the iPad and its clones are going to kill off single purpose devices like dedicated eReaders such as Amazon's Kindle and GPS devices within the next three years. [/quote]

This obviously comes from someone who either doesn't read on electronic devices, or has no problems reading novels on the TV screen.
Unless they resolve the backlit screen issue with reading, I'll stick to my Sony e-reader, thanks.

I *don't* get it...

[jonadab]

> I get why you'd want an iPad. I'd like one too,'

Yeah, umm, care to explain it to the rest of us, then?

Why would we want a device that costs more than a midrange desktop computer but has a much smaller storage capacity, a smaller screen, a slower CPU, no keyboard, and no high-resolution pointing device (just touchscreen, which is very low-res), and no ability to be repaired or upgraded?

Why would I want that? Why would anyone want that? Just because Steve Jobs is a gifted and dynamic communicator who presented it really well in his keynote speech? (Granted, he is a really good public speaker. Maybe he should run for President. It worked for Obama.)

For two-thirds of the cost of the iPad I could get a laptop computer with a larger screen, normal storage capacity, an essentially normal CPU, a mediocre almost-full-size keyboard, and an inconvenient but normal-res pointing device built in, that's just as portable as the iPad when I fold it closed. If the portability were an extremely important factor for me, I'd go with that.

And when the portability doesn't matter, obviously, I'll be going with a mid-tower system.

Re:I *don't* get it...

[Wovel]

Your comparison is to a midrange desktop computer? Really, a device that weighs 15lbs + at a minimum and requires a continuous source of power?

Than you go on to compare it to a laptop computer (a little better, now you are only 6x the weight and twice the thickness at a minimum). I think 99% of the reasonable in the world would take issue with your "just as portable as the ipad" claim.

I own a Macbook pro 15" which is about as portable as a full featured laptop gets. Even if you went with a macbook air, neither is anywhere near as portable, let alone "just as portable." All netbooks are thicker and I am fairly certain most if not all of them are heavier.

I believe it is safe to say , you just don't get it....

This just in, Apple fans full of themselves!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really an iPad clone when tablet pcs have been out for almost a decade now?

Let me buy your "useless" eeepc 901!

[bornagainpenguin]

Personally, I have an Eee PC 901 and I hardly ever use it now.

Really? Ill give you fifty US for it, if you find it that useless...

--bornagainpenguin

Re:And You Look Like A Loser To The Rest Of The Wo

[Ironhandx]

How many paid Corporate Shills do we have on slashdot these days?

Really... the smell is getting unbearable.

"At least she is not a coward" pfft. Sounds like something the overpaid Apple marketing department would come up with.

What is in question here is NOT the usefulness of the device for very particular tasks. What is in question here is why the hell do we even give a shit when there are/have been devices that do exactly the same thing and more besides for years now?

No, no, nevermind. You go use your Apple products with your zero viruses(call me when people actually start targeting macs because they're no longer insignificant), super functionality(oh wait...), and incredible level of customization ability(you can still change the color on your window title bars, right? or did they take that away too?).

Yes! iWant

[pubwvj]

"do you really want to" [buy an iPad]

Yes! Two in fact. It isn't just the software, it is the hardware too and the integration of the two. It will be a long time before anyone approaches the elegance and power of the iPad. By then Apple will also be miles ahead of that.

Besides, if you detest DRM as much as I do, which is a lot, then read old books. There are hundreds of thousands, millions(?), out there out of copyright. Humans have a long literary history. Skip the recent stuff.

GPS Replacement? Hardly.

[Flwyd]

Kindle killer? Fine. But a tablet computer is an astoundingly poor replacement for a GPS device.

My Garmin device fits in my camera bag, takes 2 AA batteries, and is sturdy enough to drop off the side of a mountain into a brook. Tablets won't do that very well.

Cue the stupid Warhammer jokes

[jonaskoelker]

2010: Year of the Linux Tabletop?

Sure. I have Linux running on my Nokia N40000.

Bad phrasing

[bryan1945]

"50 ARM powered clones..."
My first take on reading this was a pad that had 50 ARM processors in it, making me wonder what the heck was going to power this thing! Of course I got it on the 2nd read, but still.

Now there is a project for you super-mod freaks! Take a pad (iPad or clone) and stuff it enough power to rival a low-level server. Or even a good laptop. That would be funky. I wouldn't even try this, since the last time I soldered I set my (wooden) desk on fire. There were mitigating circumstances, but still....

Re:And You Look Like A Loser To The Rest Of The Wo

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a bigger wife instead.

not happy here

[tsute'y]

can't anyone manufacture a Tablet that runs on linux and sell it for sub $150 in Asia ???