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EA To Charge For Game Demos

Kohato brings word of a new Electronic Arts marketing strategy that aims to start monetizing game demos. According to industry analyst Michael Patcher after an EA investor visit, the publisher will start selling "premium downloadable content" prior to a game's release for $10-$15 that is essentially a longer-than-usual demo. Patcher said, "I think that the plan is to release PDLC at $15 that has 3-4 hours of gameplay, so [it has] a very high perceived value, then [EA will] take the feedback from the community (press and players) to tweak the follow-on full game that will be released at a normal packaged price point." He also made reference to a comment from EA's CEO John Riccitiello that "the line between packaged product sales and digital revenues would soon begin to blur."

313 comments

  1. $15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds better than $50 for 4 hours of gameplay. I'm looking at you, most games.

    1. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What happens if the DRM servers go down? I could spend 4 hours trying to activate the demo, by which the time has run out.

    2. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Bugamn · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think the article says that one would need 3 to 4 hours to finish the demo, not that it would be a time-bomb demo with a fuse of 3 to 4 hours.

    3. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you misunderstood. '4 hours of gameplay' does not mean that you have a 4 hour time slot in which to play the game. Rather it would be a demo of the game with 4 hours of content (normal demos are around 30 minutes, if that).

    4. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds to me like they want to get beta testers and QA to pay them instead of the other way around. This is just as ridiculous as paying your boss for allowing you to work.

    5. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's four EA-hours, not four real-hours. It's kind of like the difference between [computer manufacturer] hours and real hours when discussing laptop battery life.

      Anyway, this is a dumb idea - it's sort of like trying to monetize TV commercials.

    6. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Penguin · · Score: 1

      Four hours of clicking to gain progress of some sort?

      Sounds like most MMORPGs to me as well :)

      --
      - Peter Brodersen; professional nerd
    7. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If anyone buys into this, I got a fence to paint for you...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by silanea · · Score: 1

      Not having read TFA, this is EA we are talking about. The parent's assumption may well be right.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    9. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, let me get this straight. EA want to charge the customer almost a 3rd to play a demo, which, if you RTFA, they will then make changes on based on feedback.

      Forgive if i'm wrong (which i'm not), but this seems very much like EA is attempting to charge the user for Beta testing their software.

      They should just rename themselves the RIAA and be done with it.

    10. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      In most games these days, that's a whole friggin game. I don't know what that translates to here, possibly EA making ..oh i dont know... games with actual content lasting more than a total of 6 hours?

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    11. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by NonSenseAgency · · Score: 1

      I stopped playing DAOC when EA bought them. It was already obvious that EA was totally profit-centric and really had no empathy with the game players that they depend upon for their revenue. Such a focus is inevitably the end of any game, just a matter of time. Just look at Mythic, they are allegedly exploring releasing a new game based on DAOC without EA's participation.

    12. Re:$15 dollars for 4 hours of gameplay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      couldn't agree with you more

  2. It's the Polyphony Digital model! by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Far, far ahead of their time.

    Gran Turismo 4 and Gran Turismo 5 spawned "GT4: Prologue" and "GT5: Prologue" products which were cut-down versions of the eventual games to come out.

    According to some definitions, "Torchlight" by Runic Games is the same thing.

    The days of buying a game and feeling like you have the complete thing are coming to an end. It's nickle and dime time!

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by mc+moss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wonder if you actually played GT5: Prologue. It had more content than some finished racing games put out by other companies.

    2. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by mathx314 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Same with Torchlight. The only way it's a demo is that they're using the same engine and some of the same assets to build an MMO. The game itself is a complete (and incredibly fun) Diablo clone.

    3. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Normal+Dan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bah! I've got a marketing model that can blow both of these out of the water. I'm creating the most awesomest game in the whole wide world. It's name you ask? Well, that'll cost you $1.50. Would you like to hear more about it? That'll cost you $7.25. Wanna see the trailer?

      --
      A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
    4. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference there is that Runic Games is comprised of 26 people, while EA has over 7000 employees. I think the often-stereotyped "small developer" [even if run by experienced, qualified individuals] can't very well compete with the giants in terms of financing/funding.

    5. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by phallstrom · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      Can I write you a check?

    6. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Don't waste your money. The game is Duke Nukem Forever. If you want to know when it will be released, that will cost you $64,000.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    7. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Well, think of it this way - if each company makes $1 million dollars, splitting it 26 ways is much better than splitting it 7000 ways. So for each dollar Runic makes, EA would have to make approximately $270 to keep up.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    8. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by ooshna · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes but since he is not EA you don't have to write it out in the blood of your firstborn blue or black pen is fine.

    9. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      The content for higher level characters doesn't feel complete to me, it feels like they could have done more. Not that I'm complaining, I think the price was about right for what I got from the game. It just feels like they depend too much on randomised content, especially when you compare it to the old Diablo games.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    10. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Ragzouken · · Score: 1

      Pssst, over here.

    11. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by samkass · · Score: 1

      Do people on gaming platforms other than the iPhone really pay more than $10-$15 for a game??

      --
      E pluribus unum
    12. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Well, that'll cost you $1.50. Would you like to hear more about it? That'll cost you $7.25.

      So you're launching a magazine?

    13. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by dissy · · Score: 1

      That's nothing! I run a game where you just have to put quarters in a box and you win!

    14. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by auLucifer · · Score: 1

      Is that you John Romero?

      --
      If I was witty I'd put something funny here but, as it stands, I am not and have just wasted seconds of your life
    15. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by proslack · · Score: 1

      I don't know...is the iPhone really a gaming platform?

      --


      Floating in the black seas of infinity without a paddle.
    16. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by ImYourVirus · · Score: 1

      Since when has it been an even split. If I got an even split where I work at I might actually work hard. I work in retail.

      --
      Why is common sense called that if it's not common?
    17. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by davester666 · · Score: 1

      But it must be certified, because you look like a deadbeat!

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    18. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Never. That was just an example to show the scale of income differences.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    19. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how exactly does Torchlight fall into this model? I have the boxed game, what am I (supposedly) missing out on?

    20. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by iosq · · Score: 1

      Nah, he's in prison. Found out it was much easier to make people his bitch while incarcerated.

    21. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      Other than the iPhone? Just because something has a lot of games does not make it a "gaming platform". And if it does then my Ti-89 was probably the most boring gaming platform I've owned.

    22. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Yes!!! Oh god yes!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    23. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What do you mean? It is something else?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by ImNotAtWork · · Score: 1

      If games like Resident Evil are showing up on it.. I would have to say yes.

      --
      open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
    25. Re:It's the Polyphony Digital model! by dintech · · Score: 1

      It's name you ask? Well, that'll cost you $1.50. Would you like to hear more about it? That'll cost you $7.25. Wanna see the trailer?

      Xenu, is that you?

  3. Ha! by Dyinobal · · Score: 1

    A high priced appetizer to milk fanboys of their money. It's a fantastic and evil idea but I don't like it.

    1. Re:Ha! by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not just that - it's getting fanboys to pay to be beta testers.

      EA has been off my list of companies to purchase from for years and years now. Shit like this does nothing to get them back on my list.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Ha! by tsotha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think it's a fantastic idea at all. The whole point of a demo is to give people a taste of the game so they buy it. But you always risk giving them so much they have time to get tired of it. When it's free you can just give them enough to get hooked, but people paying fifteen bucks for a demo are going to expect something a bit more substantial. I think this is going to cost them sales if it does anything.

    3. Re:Ha! by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      It's not exactly new though.

      They just need to put it onto a 5.25" floppy and then everyone will remember what the world used to be like.

      A free demo is actually a relatively modern advancement circa 1998. Prior to the internet you didn't get free demos you had to either subscribe to a gaming magazine or buy a shareware disk.

    4. Re:Ha! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      When you risk that they get tired of the game with the demo/preview, the game ain't worth a dime anyway.

      I'd expect from a demo nothing less than at least 3-4 hours of gameplay and then wanting more. If the demo fails to deliver either (or if there's no demo), you have to look elsewhere for a customer.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Ha! by Schadrach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope. This cannot and will not cost them sales in any way. Only piracy does that, and if this appears to, it just means that piracy is on the rise...

    6. Re:Ha! by dfxm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think it's a fantastic idea at all. The whole point of a demo is to give people a taste of the game so they buy it. But you always risk giving them so much they have time to get tired of it. When it's free you can just give them enough to get hooked, but people paying fifteen bucks for a demo are going to expect something a bit more substantial. I think this is going to cost them sales if it does anything.

      I think it is fine, if, at the end of the day you can put that $10-15 toward the purchase of the full game and also use the save data from the demo in the full game. I would never replay the first few hours of a game, and I would also never pay for the same content twice.

      However, I might pay for a "try before you buy" type of deal where you really do get to try the game, and not just play 5-10 minutes.

    7. Re:Ha! by tsotha · · Score: 1

      When you risk that they get tired of the game with the demo/preview, the game ain't worth a dime anyway.

      That's true, and that's my point. I purchased several games over the last year that I wouldn't have purchased if I was able to play four hours beforehand. In some cases the game just sucked. In others the first few hours were fun but it was clear the fun wouldn't last. In each case I paid $30 to $50, so a $15 four hour demo would have cost the publisher $15 to $35.

  4. Ok by hemlock00 · · Score: 1

    Good Luck, you'll need it.

  5. Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I reading this wrong, or is EA essentially trying to establish a paid beta program?

    1. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Not exactly, but the summary is misleading. It sounds more like they want to make shorter games, then charge less for it.

      Which... isn't so bad. I suppose. But if the idea is that you pay $15 for a shorter version of the game, they had better take what you paid off of the full version.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Paid Beta Program? by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Pachter wrote, "The PDLC would be sold for $10 or $15 through Xbox Live and PlayStation Network, and would essentially be a very long game demo, along the lines of 2009’s Battlefield 1943."

      He added, "A full-blown packaged game would follow shortly after the release of the PDLC, bearing a full retail price. Mr. Earl believes that the release of the PDLC first limits the risk of completing and marketing the full packaged version, and serves as a low-cost marketing tool."

      No, they're going to make a long demo, charge you for it, then charge you full price when the actual game comes out. Doesn't read like there's any discounts OR product-improvements planned as part of this program.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    3. Re:Paid Beta Program? by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it's as simple as that, then it seems ok. I fear, however, that it will be more like they'll charge you $15 for the demo, then $60 for the full game, then an additional $40 for all the DLC-- and if you were to add all of it together, you'd get the same amount of content that would have been in a $50 game 10 years ago.

      Maybe it's just paranoia, but I feel like the days of businesses being innovative to find a way to provide more to their customers is over. Now all the innovation is aimed at getting customers to pay more for less.

    4. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      No, you didn't RTFA.

      [UPDATE: EA VP of corporate communications Jeff Brown told Gamasutra in an email that the publisher will continue to offer an array of pricing strategies to consumers. He wrote in full: ...

      - None of the proposals call for charging consumers for traditionally free game demos."]

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    5. Re:Paid Beta Program? by SailorSpork · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not paranoia, it's called "business model innovation." And if enough people wouldn't be willing to pay for it, EA wouldn't be doing it.

    6. Re:Paid Beta Program? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      .... where they're redefining what a demo means. In my world - and everyone's world that I can think of - a demo is a short version of a full game that gives you an idea of controls, atmosphere, design and game type (with notable exception Brutal Legend, that completely failed to indicate its RTS nature). 4 hours of a game - let's say, RE5 - is about 1, maybe 2 levels in a full game. So I get to pay $10 for a game that completely fails to show me the full range of capabilities of a character, a satisfying story arc, and which might not even be finished??

      Fuck you, EA. I'm not going to be suckered into paying for what sounds suspiciously like a beta program.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    7. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Again, it says they're not getting rid of free demos.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    8. Re:Paid Beta Program? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Then I question their strategy. $15 for me is a quality game where art and size are reduced when compared to a full game. I don't expect an indie studio to come out with Mass Effect style art, content and videos. But I do expect a full game like Castle Crashers - comprehensive story for RPGs or action game; a full set of maps, tracks and character abilities for racing, fighting or shooting games. If their PDLC wants to compete with indie games, it needs to offer that. But if it wants to also sell the full game, it can't be the full game - and then we're back to a regular demo with significant features or story portions missing.

      They can say what they want to say, but it doesn't mean that it necessarily makes sense. In this case, they're trying to sell us a beef rib as being the same as a rabbit - it might cost and weigh the same, but it really isn't. No amount of tap-dancing will hide that.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    9. Re:Paid Beta Program? by ubercam · · Score: 1

      It might work if they charged the so-called beta testers an upgrade fee to the end product, so the total outlay of cash is the same or very near the same as if they had just waited and bought the game on release day. The most I would pay extra would be between $0-$5, for the privilege of playing early, but the "demo" had better be awesome. Paying anything more would be rather evil... I'm not paying full price for the finished product AFTER ALREADY HAVING PAID THEM for what amounts to beta testing.. no thanks!!!

      The plus side to this is that, like traditional demos, it might be a good metric to see how popular a game will be before release day, but the difference would be that the cash would start flowing in sooner, maybe allowing for better features or something to be developed... but it's EA we're talking about, and I'm sure they'd just "invest" it in a more annoying DRM scheme or something equally stupid.

    10. Re:Paid Beta Program? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Heh. Yeah. Although I predict that I won't be buying any EA games at all any more. Not out of some kind of principled stand, mind, but simply out of not ever being exposed to them due to the paywall on the advertising.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    11. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know what $50 was worth 10 years ago in today's dollars?

    12. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's no surprise. They're doing exactly that at the moment with the Lord of Ultima beta. They've already launched the item shop for what is still a badly broken and incomplete game.

    13. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      They aren't trying to sell you anything yet. You're just falling for a sensationalist headline about a company we all hate.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    14. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Vicegrip · · Score: 1

      It's marketing noise. In my opinion some genius at marketing has come up with the idea that since they can get people to pre-pay for games, maybe they can get them to pay for a partial and then pay again for the full release.. garbage... the only way this could possibly work is if the cost of the download was later subtracted from the full retail price. I didn't buy Bioware's expansion because it was overpriced, and I'm sure as hell not going to buy any demo.

      --
      Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
    15. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Isn't that how Quake was originally sold?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    16. Re:Paid Beta Program? by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 1

      Do you know what $50 was worth 10 years ago in today's dollars?

      According to the Bank of Canada, something that cost $50 in 2000 would now cost $61.42 and something that cost $50 in 1990 would now cost $74.87.

      On the other hand, here's food for thought: not everything goes up in price over time. For instance, the price of an entry-level PC. Consumer electronics in general drop in price over time while increased capability rolls out. In theory, software could be one of those categories given the way 20 years ago we didn't have re-usable game engines. In theory, we should be (and possibly are) seeing lots of code re-use and re-used art assets. Who needs to write a convincing simulator for the behaviour of blades of grass for Game 3.0? Sure, the level environments get more detailed, and the textures prettier, but I don't know we're looking at as much new content as we think we are.

      --
      "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
    17. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just take a look at the Starcraft 2 Beta. Many people are buying these keys second-hand for up to $300.

      I was wondering why no publisher had taken advantage of this yet. Intelligent move by EA, as there are so many people willing to pay for an unfinished product.

    18. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Shimbo · · Score: 1

      None of the proposals call for charging consumers for traditionally free game demos."

      Evil doesn't mean stupid.

    19. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Demonantis · · Score: 1

      What would be smarter is to give the demo to all people that pre-purchase the game. Add a couple bucks for early access. You could book most of your revenue before the game hits the stores plus it gets user input and you can fire a portion of the testing team. What they are doing will never fly at 10-15 dollars for most people, but the fanboys. Plus, most of the comments they will get won't represent the whole community.

    20. Re:Paid Beta Program? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Existence of evil is assumed, not proven.

      This what causes fanbois to come out of the woodwork and be noisy, by the way.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    21. Re:Paid Beta Program? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Paying anything more would be rather evil... I'm not paying full price for the finished product AFTER ALREADY HAVING PAID THEM

      I bought Fallout for my PS3. There have been a bit of updates since release, in addition to 5 DLC products. I paid $60 at launch, and now they release the GoY edition, also $60, which includes the DLC. However, for me to buy the DLC costs $50. It doesn't really make sense. Hell, it's cheaper to sell my original game and then buy the GoY edition. Buying the DLC online also has the disadvantage that I can't resell it later.

      If they're pulling that stuff already, then I don't doubt that they'll try to make you buy the demo, then buy the full game at full price, and then buy the DLC at full price. There was even a case recently (I don't remember the game) where the DLC was already included on the original retail disc. It wasn't DLC at all, but the end of the game had been locked and was only unlocked when you paid an additional fee.

      I expect this will only get worse. Eventually they'll have you paying a separate fee for every level and every weapon, and when you add it all up, a game that used to cost $50 will cost $150.

    22. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, you know, EA could be wrong.

    23. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 1

      It's easy to read this as nickle-and-diming, but I see it as a redefinition of what a "demo" is. The problem today is that many games now cost $50M+ to develop -- similar to Hollywood movies -- which from a commercial standpoint is a big risk and leads to mostly sequels and derivative gameplay. An approach like this allows developers to test the waters and reduce investment risk, which for gamers should result in more investment, more games, and a greater diversity of gameplay.

      Portal shows what this could do. Valve was able to test the waters by piggybacking the game onto the Orange Box, and later as a $10-15 download. This success has led them to develop Portal 2, which will presumably be a bigger game (read: more expensive to develop) but will have a known big audience in spite of its funky premise. Portal would probably never happen if it were a $50M development project from the start.

      An interesting question is whether a similar model would ever be applied in Hollywood, i.e. produce a made-for-DVD film for $5M, as a way to test the waters for a full $100M+ production. It seems to me the games industry is well ahead of Hollywood in using digital distribution to its advantage.

    24. Re:Paid Beta Program? by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      $300? Shit. I actually gave my friend invite to a friend :(

    25. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Strych9 · · Score: 1

      However unlike a demo which is free, if I don't like the game, do I get my money back?

    26. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly that. "Hey you guys wanna test this out and give us some feedback? Oh, it'll only cost you about 10 bucks. And really 10 bucks is nothing for this Premium Demo. Did we tell you it's longer than a normal demo? Premiummmm."

      Disgusting! The worst part is people will actually do this. They will pay to be beta testers and won't have any problem with it because it's got the word "Premium" attached to it so they think they are getting a good thing.

      EA I tried defending you in the past, but no more!

    27. Re:Paid Beta Program? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But that's the big problem isn't it. Why does it cost $50 million to create a game. It costs $50 million for a movie because some actors demand $20 million just to be in the movie. It's not like games programmers are asking for such large salaries. I've had more fun playing independant games on Wii Ware then I have playing some of the full on commercial games. Also, I think they take away a lot of the risk if they just made more $1 million games, and sold them for $10 a piece then to make a $50 million game and try to sell it for $60.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    28. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's as simple as that, then it seems ok. I fear, however, that it will be more like they'll charge you $15 for the demo, then $60 for the full game, then an additional $40 for all the DLC-- and if you were to add all of it together, you'd get the same amount of content that would have been in a $50 game 10 years ago.

      Maybe it's just paranoia, but I feel like the days of businesses being innovative to find a way to provide more to their customers is over. Now all the innovation is aimed at getting customers to pay more for less.

      With inflation that $50 game from ten years ago should cost around $108.00, so 15+60+40 is about right.

    29. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In theory, we should be (and possibly are) seeing lots of code re-use and re-used art assets. Who needs to write a convincing simulator for the behaviour of blades of grass for Game 3.0? Sure, the level environments get more detailed, and the textures prettier, but I don't know we're looking at as much new content as we think we are.

      Licensing these engines costs hundreds of thousands (indie figure) to (tens of) millions of dollars.

    30. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Bodrius · · Score: 1

      And if they do what you fear, they'll fail to keep up with competitors who can find ways to monetize demos without annoying their customers or simultaneously invalidating the primary reason customers download demos (vs DLCs or full games) and killing a good chunk of the market for the full game (those who play the demo and don't feel like buying an 'old game' again)... or, you know, against anyone who don't change anything at all - that's still going to fare better.

      EA cannot pretend they're the only choice in the market - even their leverage as the 'giant distributor' loses value as digital distribution becomes the norm, *particularly* in that (4 hour, 15$) segment they're targeting here. They can't afford to provide low value here because they're not competing against just their peers in the gazillion-dollar--60-hour-blockbuster market, but also against *everyone else*, including casual/indie game shops targeting short, cheap games as their bread and butter.

      Ultimately, I still think that unless they're talking about true episodic content (a la Sam & Max) this is a horrible idea for EA itself.

      This plays directly against their strengths: large studio, big pockets, lots of marketing translate well to 'big games' where high production values are a big differentiator (voice acting, large narratives and cut-scenes, art assets, etc). It would be a lot easier to compete with lower production values against any shorter game, like these demos, simply because 4-hours require or even allow a lot less art, etc.

      Think about how much easier it would be for a new adventure/rpg game studio to compete in quality against a 4-hour Bioware game. EA may argue that's just 'a sneak peak of the full experience' but when you're charging 15 bucks, the only difference for the consumer would be that the game is less polished and has no ending.

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
    31. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You already cannot return opened software to authorized retailers (except for limited exceptions in few districts). Will this change? Doubtful.

    32. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about how much easier it would be for a new adventure/rpg game studio to compete in quality against a 4-hour Bioware game. EA may argue that's just 'a sneak peak of the full experience' but when you're charging 15 bucks, the only difference for the consumer would be that the game is less polished and has no ending.

      Think this through. How do you reward the buyer of teaser game demos? Easy. Give them extra goodies in the full (upcoming) game. Double win.

      Of course, I don't see a problem with this anyway, as no one at EA is dumb enough to completely eliminate free game demos. But they will become more of a glorified tech demo, probably with additionally limited interaction and ripped out modding capabilities. Which isn't unwarranted.

    33. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's innovative in a way that helps shareholders. They will probably use the demo money to fund the completion of games. This shortens the time cash is tied to the project and helps cash flow.

      Consumers are second class citizens.

    34. Re:Paid Beta Program? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Well, the pulling power of games is waning (global financial crisis and all that). This is the necessary round of belt-tightening, but trying not to make it sound like belt-tightening.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    35. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      You know what? I probably would have begrudgingly paid for the DLC for Fallout, but unfortunately the game crashed the second that I launched it. I'm talking title screen. Apparently it is quite a known problem for a large range of video cards. http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f15/fallout-3-crash-desktop-solution-here-189880/

      Always funny how they work so damn hard to milk every last dime out of the consumer, but then release a shonky, half tested pile of steaming crap to the consumer. And to add insult ot injury, if their genius money making schemes don't work, then blame it on the pirates. DRM for everyone!!! Yay!!!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    36. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Wanna bet it will? People will see "ohh, the game's out already! And only 15 bucks!", failing to see that it is actually more like a glorified demo what they're buying. They will get furious that the game is so short, not really "done", etc. And they will later feel ripped off when the game finally arrives because they already paid for it and now wanna have it.

      In general, I think it will be a huge success initially and in the long run increase the number of people furious at EA. It's like shooting yourself in the foot with a short fuse.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    37. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sounds similar to what they did for the new BSG series they sold the extended pilot 1st and it looked like the DVD sales were good enough to greenlight the television series.

    38. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, who do they think they are? Microsoft?
      http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/default.aspx

    39. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Dorkmaster+Flek · · Score: 1

      But that's the big problem isn't it. Why does it cost $50 million to create a game.

      Seems to me it's two reasons:

      • 1. Current generation graphics technology means the demand for visually and audibly stunning games has gone way up. The most recent example of this is probably God of War III and Final Fantasy XIII. It takes a long time and a lot of people to craft worlds that look that good. If you add an orchestral score on top of that, it's hella expensive to have an orchestra sitting there.
      • 2. One word: marketing. Some games spend more on marketing these days than actual development. This is probably more of a problem than the skyrocketing A/V requirements.
      --
      I like to think of online DRM as something akin to a college -- you pay for lessons until you learn something.
    40. Re:Paid Beta Program? by foolserrend1975 · · Score: 1

      Agreed ! My exact same thoughts !

    41. Re:Paid Beta Program? by shnull · · Score: 1

      I think you are reading this very right. First there was the beta so they didnt need to pay thousands of testers before release ... now they want the testers to pay THEM ? ... let's see where this goes. I for one think this kind of idiocy only encourages piracy

      --
      beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
    42. Re:Paid Beta Program? by N1AK · · Score: 1

      It costs $50 million for a movie because some actors demand $20 million just to be in the movie.

      They pay actors $20 million because famous names increase the gross of the film. I'm no fan of the movie industry, but they're not in the habit of spending big money on things they don't think will pay back.

      The reason some games are costing this kind of money? Because the return on big hits like Modern Warfare 2, Halo, Gran Turismo etc are seen to justify the initial outlay. Can indie labels and cheap games do well? Absolutely, plenty of examples like Castle Crashers and Plants vs Zombies show that. Does this mean the big game industry is doomed? I'm still planning on getting Splinter Cell: Conviction, Mass Effect 2, Forza 3 and looking at the sales plenty of other people are.

      That said, I'm not there target market. I'll buy these games when they get to around £15, I've got a near endless back-catalogue to get through so I don't see the point in buying games at release to leave them in a box 3 months.

    43. Re:Paid Beta Program? by dyingtolive · · Score: 1

      Part of the difference is the automatic level of quality difference between the two. Starcraft fans have been wanting a new release for about 10 years. It's not "Madden '11" or "The Sims 50". They're both companies who are "Too big to fail" and print their own money regardless of failed releases, but the difference is that Blizzard you can trust to not release unless it's well put together, even if it's a beta. Really, it's like if you expected me to pay to test drive a car; Blizzard is offering me this while EA is offering me this.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    44. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Some of the largest games require an enormous amount of manpower to create. The game I'm working on (an upcoming MMO) has been in development for over three years, and has a team of over 100 developers and support staff. Game devs make anywhere from 50K to 150K per year. Figure perhaps average of 75 to 80K, perhaps. 80K x 100 x 3 = 24 mil just on salaries alone. Don't forget marketing budgets, licensing fees, equipment, rent, insurance, taxes, etc. Double that number and you've just about hit 50 mil.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    45. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It depends on the game. If you read through the credits for some big budget games like Modern Warfare 2 and Battlefield Bad Company 2, they had a lot of outside consultants (read expensive)to cover all aspects of realistic combat, weaponry, and unit formation. Additionally all that realism costs serious compute time in terms of rendering models, cutscenes, and CG, enough so that you either have to buy expensive equipment or rent expensive equipment.

      In other words, you pay for realism. I don't think I've seen any first-person, 3D, fully-rendered, realistic combat games made by indepedent developers. It's not really possible, to be honest, without spending a year just to render the scenes and models that are done in a month by the big guys (setting you back technologically by release comparative to the competition).

      But let's be honest, all of that even could only amount to a ~20-30 million game. The extra money (most of the money in less realistic or shoddier games) is in marketing. All those TV commercials cost money. If limited to simple/cost-effective Internet advertising and ads through services like Steam, they would lose a minimum of sales because they already have a popular franchise, but could also cut the budget considerably. The downside is there is less hype around the game. At this point, ads for big-name games aren't about informing you of the games existence and basic idea, it's about hyping the game up into a fervor till you feel you HAVE to buy it or you'll be the laughingstock of your peer group.

    46. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet games were not $50 10 years ago, if i remember correctly, last gen games released at $40, and many games for all 3 systems usually had some 30 hours of gameplay, even some shooters had quite a bit. Today we are paying more than 10 times more for games in terms of price-content ratio. There is a limit when it comes to exploiting the mainstream audience, and EA should have already learned this lesson.

    47. Re:Paid Beta Program? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is BS, I remember when Quake 3 was tagged at $60 in stores. Exception? No, don't think so.

  6. Fantastic by coffii · · Score: 1

    They're gonna charge beta testers. There's a reason I don't buy from EA, vote with your wallet.

    --
    Bitter and twisted, DON'T ever FORGET the TWISTED
    1. Re:Fantastic by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Its not a new concept, and it works.

      In order to play the beta's of Blizzard games you pretty much had to pay your way into Blizzcon, or get very very lucky.

    2. Re:Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Let's say there's this fun game, and I buy it when it's eventually released at full price. Did the fact that EA released a paid demo earlier take away from my enjoyment? Why should I not buy EA products just because they offer another product that I'm not interested in?

    3. Re:Fantastic by powerspike · · Score: 1

      At least with blizzcon, it was an event, that you wouldn't of gotten because there is not "full version of blizzcon" coming out soon, While the idea in general might be the same, it's totally different in respect that blizzcon is a unique event that you can't repeat or sell off later.

  7. Shareware by dunezone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the publisher will start selling "premium downloadable content" prior to a game's release for $10-$15 that is essentially a longer-than-usual demo

    So were going back to shareware?

    1. Re:Shareware by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Informative

      How is this shareware? Shareware was giving away free trial versions of a software that you then had to pay to upgrade to the full version. This is selling people a beta version of a game to demo.

    2. Re:Shareware by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      So were going back to shareware?

      No, shareware was free (as in beer) either limited demo or sometimes full-featured software with an evaluation or limited-time-use term (sometimes with some enforcement mechanism, sometimes not), which could be upgraded to full-and-unrestricted use by paying a fee.

      So, pretty much like conventional free-demo software. Not much at all like "pay-for-a-demo, then pay-more-for-the-full-product" software that is proposed here.

    3. Re:Shareware by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This is worse than shareware. Shareware was free until you wanted the whole thing.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Shareware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Someone forgot the time when you could BUY shareware in stores. Remember when the ONLY retail copy of Doom you could ever find was Episode 1?

    5. Re:Shareware by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      "Worse" ? I prefer the shareware model, actually, to typical retail-ware. :) Being able to try out a game - not just a demo but part of the real game - is great. Most demos are like that, but shareware - in my experience - tends to have longer "demos."

    6. Re:Shareware by dunezone · · Score: 1

      There was a time when you could walk into a store and buy a shareware version of a product. It was reasonably cheap between $5 and $10 and gave you a good amount of game play. This was very popular with iD software and Apogee and throughout the early 90s and before cheap internet access.

    7. Re:Shareware by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, we bought it for $5-$10 on a floppy in a retail establishment. We also wore an onion on our belt, as was the style at the time.

    8. Re:Shareware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quake 1. You purchased the shareware demo CD in the store for $10 if you wanted the NIN music tracks that weren't in the downloadable free demo. Purchase key from id, unlock full game, install.

      It sounds like that kind of shareware. Truly cutting edge stuff.

    9. Re:Shareware by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      No, we bought it for $5-$10 on a floppy in a retail establishment.

      While its true that you could buy shareware --the payment was notionally for the media and duplication, not a license to use -- it could also be freely redistributed, and generally was, so that while some people might buy it in stores, most people didn't (that was, in fact, key to getting it into lots of hands of people who might choose to pay for a full license.)

      That's pretty much the opposite of paying for a "expanded demo" download, where you are paying specifically for the license.

    10. Re:Shareware by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      What you paid for was the media and the distribution costs. The proposed EA scheme is nothing like shareware at all.

    11. Re:Shareware by Puff_Of_Hot_Air · · Score: 1

      I hate to break it to you, but you could have got those titles for free. I remember seeing those in shops, and always wondered at who would buy them when they were free! All you needed was access to a BBS or a mate. The license allowed sharware to be copied for non commercial use. Those guys who were charging the $5 dollars were ripping off the sharware guys (I'm sure they never saw a dime)! I had friends who used to charge, but they made it clear it was just for the cost of the media and their time.

    12. Re:Shareware by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      What is this "retail establishment?" I looked at www.retailestablishment.com, but I couldn't find anything floppy for sale. Or anything at all for that matter.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    13. Re:Shareware by hitmark · · Score: 1

      actually, that model still exists. the company big fish games seems to do well using that model alongside a steam like distribution system (download a central client, use that to grab any of the games, play for x hours, then either pay or grab a new game).

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    14. Re:Shareware by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      i bought a lot of $5 floppies in the 90s, back then i didnt really know the difference, and those shareware floppies were sold in the toy-stores here, and i didnt have any idea where to find full-version games (didnt really start finding those till they came on CDs), and as i was 10-12, full games would have easily been to expensive for my savings.

      That said, Fuck EA. I pretty much added them to my blacklist with the C&C4 always online DRM scheme already, but this shit wont fly for me either

      (not that EA made any game in the last few years that i actually care about, the gradually killed of the C&C franchise, and BF2142 pretty much killed battlefield for me (and i still hate them for not giving BFV the support it deserved, that game ROCKED))

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    15. Re:Shareware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least it's a step in the right direction. For a time, they were selling us a beta version of the game and calling it a retail release.

    16. Re:Shareware by dunezone · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...and always wondered at who would buy them when they were free! All you needed was access to a BBS or a mate.

      For some of us it was cheaper to buy them at the store then tie up the phone line to a long distance call to a BBS server.

    17. Re:Shareware by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Informative

      Where I was at MOST of the BBS's were long distance, not to mention that downloads were slow as molasses on a 2400 BAUD modem and the terminal program wasn't multitasking (so you had to leave the computer alone to do it's thing while it downloaded).

      Trust me, those shareware houses that sold "by the disk" had a purpose back in the day.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  8. Sounds familiar by lennier1 · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of Apple having people actually pay them for taking part in a beta test or for a SDK.

    1. Re:Sounds familiar by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      I don't remember that. Link?

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    2. Re:Sounds familiar by besalope · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I don't remember that. Link?

      http://developer.apple.com/iphone/index.action

      $99/yr for the "membership" that gives you access to the iphone's SDK (link is on the right side of the page "Not a program member"...)

      It's similar to Microsoft's visual studios, only significantly less useful for the price.

  9. Sorry you won't be getting my money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who still is buying EA games? The last one I picked up was Battlefield 2. I've had enough of their shit and don't see any real reason to ever to go back to any of their products.

  10. Really? by Atraitus · · Score: 1

    Are they TRYING to put themselves out of business? This seems like a perfect way to ensure no one plays the demo and instead purchases the full game. Sure, it'll get them more sales, at first. Then people will realize that the games are crap anyway and stop purchasing from them.

    1. Re:Really? by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Are they TRYING to put themselves out of business? This seems like a perfect way to ensure no one plays the demo and instead downloads a pirated copy of the full game.

      Fixed that for you.

      This will alienate potential customers and most likely increase the rate of piracy.

  11. EA, you've missed the point by Werthless5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The point of a demo is to convince people to purchase your game. If you force people to also purchase the demo, then they'll likely not bother purchasing anything.

    The only effect this can have is a decrease in revenue for EA followed by some long-winded rants about "piracy is decreasing our revenue" when in actuality it's EA releasing poor-quality games and making boneheaded decisions like this one that are causing them to lose revenue.

    1. Re:EA, you've missed the point by uselessengineer · · Score: 1

      Where do i go to get the demo of the demo of the game?

    2. Re:EA, you've missed the point by pauls2272 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >The point of a demo is to convince people to purchase your game

      But this isn't a Demo. They are already milking the back end by selling DLC "addons" to the base product that were probably developed in tandem with the base product. Now they want to sell PDLC "addons" to the product by releasing bits of it early. I'd bet the programmers/developers won't use much if any feedback from the PDLC people as they will be too busy trying to get the base product out the door as well as the DLC content that is to be sold immediately after the base product.

      So, in some respects, it is ingenious. Prior to the DLC stuff, you had:

      "Base product" if that sold well then a lot of time later "expansion to base product"

      Now the business model is:

      "PDLC content reaps in big bucks", "base product (which gets smaller and smaller)" ,"DLC content "addons" reaps in more bucks"

      Next they will start charging you for character generation, Saves, multiplayer, etc...

    3. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Brian+Boitano · · Score: 1

      Looks like the original demo will still be available, the one you have to buy is just bigger/longer.

      --
      What would Brian Boitano do?
    4. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Ron_Fitzgerald · · Score: 1

      I think that USED to be the point of the demo, then somewhere along the line demos were converted to beta versions.

      --
      ~ Ron Fitzgerald
    5. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Itchyeyes · · Score: 1

      The point of a demo is to convince people to purchase your game. If you force people to also purchase the demo, then they'll likely not bother purchasing anything.

      While I get your point, that doesn't always have to be true. One of the biggest things that holds me back from purchasing games is uncertainty of whether or not I'll like them. And the 20-30 min demos most games get often aren't enough to assuage those fears. For example, if I've got a 50/50 chance of liking/not liking a $60 game, and I can get enough gameplay for $10 to essentially assure me of whether or not I'll like the full game, that's a net gain to me.

      Granted, rentals are still a better value proposition. However, the problem with rentals is that 9 times out of 10 they don't have the game that I want to play available when I want to play it.

    6. Re:EA, you've missed the point by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Charging for saves... now that's diabolical.

      Wait, isn't it Steam that's moving to a model where all your save games are stored on their servers? And they're touting it as a feature?

    7. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Adaeniel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yo dawg, I heard you like demos. So we put a demo in your demo so you can game while you game.

    8. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Firkragg14 · · Score: 1

      No the way it works is it syncs your saves into the steam cloud so you have your local copy then if you want to play on another computer you can just continue off your cloud save. Its pretty much the way steam saves your settings on certain games (like the half life series) but taken to a new level.

    9. Re:EA, you've missed the point by zero0ne · · Score: 1

      It is, when you consider the fact that you can go over to your friends place, log into STEAM there, and get plopped in the game right where you left off at home.

      I think the major players who see this as a good thing are LAN centers.

    10. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're referring to Steam Cloud. It's a backup and synchronization service. Your local save games and profiles are uploaded to their server when you leave the game. When you start again, steam checks if you have the most recent files and downloads them if you don't. As a result, you can pick up from where you left off at a different computer or even completely uninstall the game, install it later, and act like nothing happened.

      Personally, I don't need it, but unless it becomes the only way to store your saves, it's a good thing.

    11. Re:EA, you've missed the point by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Wasn't Steam, it was Ubisoft: http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/02/27/163226/The-Awful-Anti-Pirate-System-That-Will-Probably-Work

      No saving unless you're connected to their servers. And since you're using their bandwidth and disk space, you really ought to be paying for it....

    12. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Barny · · Score: 1

      Next they will start charging you for character generation

      Oh, you didn't buy the Spore Creature Creator when it first came out?

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    13. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now the business model is:

      "PDLC content reaps in big bucks", "base product (which gets smaller and smaller)" ,"DLC content "addons" reaps in more bucks"

      So Level 1 is $15 PDLC. Level 2 is in the $50 base product (which includes lvl 1). Level 3 is the concurrently released $15 DLC and levels 4,5 and 6 are all DLC to be released later .. ?

    14. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Valve offers to backup their games' settings (keybindings, video, audio settings, etc) on the cloud. There are no Valve games that compel gamers to backup their own save games and screen caps to other servers.

      So for now Steam's service is a feature, and a very useful one at that.

    15. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Nossie · · Score: 1

      it used to be that free demos had good content to encourage you to buy the game... they'll just make the free ones worse and double pick your pocket for the rest.

    16. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, isn't it Steam that's moving to a model where all your save games are stored on their servers? And they're touting it as a feature?

      The way it works currently on Steam is that I have a game that saves locally on my hard drive. When I exit this game, it uploads the save files to Steam's cloud servers.

      If I wanted to make a backup of my local copy and reuse it, I can. When my game gives me a randomly generated quest reward that I didn't want, I would exit game and reuse the save file *I copied elsewhere* (lol, cheating). Steam simply stores the last known save file after I exit the game each and every time.

      Basically it allows me to seamlessly play the same save file on multiple computers (laptop + desktop). Or if I forget to copy my save files outside of Window's default save folders before reinstalling the OS. (Steam sometimes obeys the game's default settings for saving game files in scattered places like /My Documents or /Documents and Settings/$user/$publisher/$game_name rather than saving it in the /Steam folder.)

    17. Re:EA, you've missed the point by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      Ummmm no thats Ubisoft. Steam can store your playersettings however in games like L4D2 or TF2, but those are optional. Ubi's are not. Burn in hell Ubisoft...

    18. Re:EA, you've missed the point by chammy · · Score: 1

      For one, Steam doesn't charge you to store crap in their cloud. For two, there is still a copy of the save on disk. You could manage all your saves manually just like before (keep a backup in case the cloud copy overwrites it). The service just copies them to new installs/computers so you don't have to.

    19. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is that not a feature?

      You wouldn't need to worry about backing up saves, or keeping them in sync if you had multiple PCs, etc.

    20. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next they will start charging you for character generation, Saves, multiplayer, etc...

      Don't give them ideas!

      Quick! Someone file a patent!

    21. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All this does is make me want for the "ultra super gold" edition that inevitably comes out around Christmas. It has everything (all DLC and patches to date) for $50.

      If I'm more patient I can even wait for it to hit the bargain bin.

    22. Re:EA, you've missed the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if it does not increase revenue for them, they will stop doing it quite quickly.

  12. The Title is Not Accurate by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

    "[EA will] take the feedback from the community (press and players) to tweak the follow-on full game that will be released at a normal packaged price point."

    It sounds to me like EA will start charging for beta releases.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  13. EA as a comedian by syousef · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm no hardcore gamer but to me the value of a demo has always been to decide whether or not I want to spend money. Am I showing my age or something? Because what is called monetising in the summary I call money grubbing. If EA are counting on this I think they'll likely implode. If they're not, well done on one of the best jokes I've heard in a long time. Bonus points if you can convince your developers that coding is a game, and get them to pay you for working 18 hour days 7 days a week.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:EA as a comedian by santax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wait until the next Mass Effect or Dragon Age comes along. Release the 'demo' 2 weeks before the full game... Make sure the buyers of the demo can transfer their character to the full game and you just pleased a whole lot of people who really really really want to be the first to play the game. But: I don't get it either and yet I buy every darn car-pack for Forca 3 that comes out.

    2. Re:EA as a comedian by Itninja · · Score: 1

      Because what is called monetising in the summary I call money grubbing.

      Sure the mans painting sell for a lot, but calling the founder of French impressionist painting 'money grubbing', especially since he's been dead for some time, seems rather harsh.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    3. Re:EA as a comedian by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I agree with your sentiment. Except for money "grubbing." I just call it sending signal to me via price-semaphore that I don't want to spend any money on it.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:EA as a comedian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no hardcore gamer but to me the value of a demo has always been to decide whether or not I want to spend money. Am I showing my age or something? Because what is called monetising in the summary I call money grubbing. If EA are counting on this I think they'll likely implode.

      I am a hardcore gamer and to me the value of a demo is exactly the same as it is to you, to decide whether or not I want to spend money.

      If game publishers actually think they can charge for demos, well more power to them. If people are willing to pay for them, great. If game publishers think that I'm going to pay for a demo to see if I want to spend even more for the game, they're out of their fucking minds.

      I'll either try the game at a friend's place if they have it and I can pry them away from their computer long enough to do so, or I'll torrent the full game instead and let that be my demo, and this is coming from someone who really has been buying games for the last eighteen years.

      I'm not saying I never pirated anything. Nope. That would be a huge lie. In middle school and high school I yarr'd scads of Apple and C-64 games. When PC's were new I ended up with a few discs worth of the Space Invaders/Centipede/other junk that floated around nearly every office in the world. In the Napster period I was happy as a pig in shit, I leeched so damn many MP3s.

      As far as PC games that spanned multiple 5-1/4 floppies to the first CD-ROM games, to Quake and Unreal, to multi-CD, and DVD sized games? I bought those. I've got well over 100 game CDs and DVDs stacked up on my shelves. Going and purchasing a game or ordering and having the game delivered was easier and more convenient than downloading them over my connection. Now I prefer to buy digitally as it is convenient and I have grown patient as I grew older and even a game that is DVD sized or larger will take only a few hours to download.

      But if you think I'm going to shell out cash for a damn demo in order to decide if I want to shell out even more cash for the whole game? SCREW YOU BUDDY. I can torrent the whole game in a few hours and then I'll install it on an isolated drive dedicated to games so I can just wipe and re-image in case it has some trojan nastyness embedded in it. If I like the game enough I *MIGHT* consider giving you some cash for it, but if you thought you'd charge for the demo I might just decide to skip that.

    5. Re:EA as a comedian by dintech · · Score: 1

      Bonus points if you can convince your developers that coding is a game, and get them to pay you for working 18 hour days 7 days a week.

      World of WarC++raft?

    6. Re:EA as a comedian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because what is called monetising in the summary I call money grubbing.

      Sure the mans painting sell for a lot, but calling the founder of French impressionist painting 'money grubbing', especially since he's been dead for some time, seems rather harsh.

      To turn the joke into a metaphor, at least Monet didn't try selling copies of his rough drawings before he finished his actual paintings!

  14. Just great by Jorl17 · · Score: 1

    Why let demos out to spice things up? Let's just have people pay to try!

    Loadcrap of idiots. Anyhow, demos are getting more and more useless, which is probably why EA is doing this -- they'll win more than they'll lose. Game critics and arcade boxes already let people try out games -- and those will (most certainly) always be free.

    Yet, they won't see a penny of me -- those bastards!

    --
    Have you heard about SoylentNews?
    1. Re:Just great by chronosan · · Score: 1

      Arcades still exist? Must find quarters!

  15. Four words: by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

    Good luck with that!

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  16. Dammit, EA by Pojut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You guys were doing so good...really making a turn around. You were starting to release big games without DRM (Dragon Age), You were showing that aquiring a company no longer meant dictating every facet of development (again, Dragon Age is a good example), you were gaining some great IP (Dead Space)...and then you go and do this shit.

    I was trying, EA. I really was. But this is making it very hard for me. If you take the money paid for these extended demos off the price of the full game, then ok...I'm behind you 100%. BUT. If it's just "pay for demo, pay full price for the full game"? I'm sorry EA...but I would be forced to abandon you.

    WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU???

    1. Re:Dammit, EA by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Isn't Bioware big enough to dictate terms to EA?

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    2. Re:Dammit, EA by Samah · · Score: 1

      I gave up on EA when they acquired Origin Systems, forced them to release a buggy, incomplete Ultima 9, then disbanded them due to poor sales. Richard Garriott never deserved that.

      On a related note, I gave up on Ubisoft when they pushed Dark Messiah multiplayer onto Kuju and proceeded to drop all support for it.

      --
      Homonyms are fun!
      You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
    3. Re:Dammit, EA by linzeal · · Score: 1

      I gave up on EA when they cancelled Earth and Beyond for not making enough profit, even though it was technically breaking even.

    4. Re:Dammit, EA by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      EA owns Bioware. A company can't dictate ANY terms to it's parent company. Convince them that it's a good idea to stay out of their affairs? Sure. But if EA chooses otherwise, Bioware has no choice either way.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    5. Re:Dammit, EA by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      To most businesses (hell, most people with a brain), "technically breaking even" IS "not making enough profit". Why expend all the resources, people, effort, etc, just to break even?

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    6. Re:Dammit, EA by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Doh, I somehow missed that 2 years ago. I thought they were just Bioware's publisher.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    7. Re:Dammit, EA by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Because it had potential to bring in more customers. If they had stayed with it they would of pry had up to 500k people playing it like EVE online or STO. There was pretty large marketing hole when EnB left the MMORPG industry with only one space-based game.

    8. Re:Dammit, EA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EA bled quarts of money this year. So in the same year you site, their bean counters see a huge loss. Get the connection?

  17. they want a service model by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    good luck with that EA. Unless you are going to provide the kind of continuous content and value of an MMO (and charging for demo's does not), I am a good many others will not buy. Oh and if it has draconian DRM and you treat Customers like Criminals people are going to make decisions based on that too and not buy.

  18. Hello, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue! by psoriac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like EA saw how successful Sony's GT-5 Prologue was and decided that this is a viable business model for eagerly anticipated AAA titles.

    If the demo purchase price could be applied as a credit on the final release I would have no problem with this, but somehow I think the chances of this being the case are pretty close to 0%.

    --
    I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
    1. Re:Hello, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue! by Rivalz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Um no.... GT-5 was not successful here is why. When I bought my ps3 years ago it was for one purpose. GT-5. I played the demo's of gt-5 and prologue and now they will not have any of my money. Their system works in reverse. Now when they come out with the next gen game this fanboy who would have bought it just on the name alone will not.

    2. Re:Hello, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue! by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      After the joke of a PSP game, im quite happy with just keeping my GT5 prologue and saying screw the final release. Prologue works well enough with my steering wheel and i dont buy GT games to rally race or F1 and i certainly dont need 700 cars. The insane delays dont help either. The fact that i already have a steering wheel from the PS3 system is the only thing stopping me switching to Forza and the MS wheel.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Hello, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue! by bynary · · Score: 1

      Actually, they're probably going off of the success of the Spore Creature Creator that they released in advance of the official game. I'll admit, I bought it for $10. I'll also freely admit that it was way more fun than the entirety of the full game. My kids and I got hours and hours of play out of creating silly creatures and making them dance and have babies.

      --
      http://www.bynarystudio.com
  19. Slippery slope to the MMO 'pay to play' model... by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    first it was some small cosmetic DLC (anybody remembers the huge hoopla about the 'horse armor' in Oblivion?) and lately it's starting to become a 'pay if you want the full experience' with 0-day DLC, with assets sometimes already present on the game media.

    It's pretty obvious that the games industry is envying the MMO business model where customers pay as long as they play (and wish they had done so a lot earlier) and this 'paid beta access' program seems just like another step in that direction.

    Nowadays not being internet connected on your gaming PC is pretty much unheard of (and with more and more games with net-based DRM impossible), the only people who would regularly play disconnected would probably be laptop users, but I guess they are not big enough of a market to stop this kind of monetization.

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
  20. Exit demo left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big game publishers are dying to generate a constant revenue stream as opposed to the famine for two years of development then feast for 1/2 - 1 year.

    I don't enjoy gaming anymore. My 20+ year hobby is dying right in front of my eyes. This story doesn't help.

  21. Well, this would be a great idea . . . by laxlavishsoft.com · · Score: 1

    *IF* the purchase price went toward the full game. If I purchased a $10-15 "demo" I would probably feel cheated by purchasing the retail version at full cost otherwise.

  22. They already do it, pretty much by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Consider Battlefield: Bad Company 2. A beta was available on Steam more than a month before game release, but you could only access it by pre-purchasing the game. There is a small step from that to splitting the cost between beta content, and full game content.

    1. Re:They already do it, pretty much by TypoNAM · · Score: 1

      Not to mention when the retail version of the game BFBC2 came out it felt like I paid for an alpha version since none of the issues brought up during the beta were fixed. It took DICE nearly an entire month later to get the game up to feeling beta quality. So, I pretty much feel like I paid $64 (PC, gamestop $50 + $14 shipping and 'handling') to beta test a game and eventually get a fully working copy of it after a month long of weekly patches to get it up to this point. The patch released last week finally fixed all my crash to desktop experiences. Such as for example, switching servers would usually get caught in a repeated loading... screen and then just crashed to desktop, or when trying to use their server browser with filter feature usually caused it after checking a few servers' information for game play setup.

      My only real complaint about the game right now is the latency issues and the false ping listed in the server browser. Because they used ICMP to ping servers in the browser (hence why they require admin rights in order for ping to show up, they cheated. ICMP app usage requires Raw sockets, therefore admin rights) it would show anywhere from 40ms to 80ms (typical ping range I only join on) and then get ingame and everybody has a ping of 250ms to 500ms. But for example in games such as Call of Duty 4 or Team Fortress 2 I nearly always have a ping of 60ms to 110ms (worst case). So something fishy going on there.

      --
      This space is not for rent.
    2. Re:They already do it, pretty much by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Not to mention when the retail version of the game BFBC2 came out it felt like I paid for an alpha version since none of the issues brought up during the beta were fixed.

      Well, they did fix some balance issues, for sure (explosive damage to objectives in Rush, bullet damage for ARs and LMGs). But as for bugs, I've found that the release version was actually more buggy than the beta, with a slew of brand new bugs in functionality that worked just fine in the beta; and the only beta bug that I actually saw fixed was that server browser sort & filtering actually worked.

      That, and, of course, the whole botched launch with logon servers down, server browser not working, "premium unlocks" for preorders and veterans not unlocking, etc.

      The patch released last week finally fixed all my crash to desktop experiences.

      Heh, try entering some text in chat when map switch occurs (so that you're still editing at that moment).

      My only real complaint about the game right now is the latency issues and the false ping listed in the server browser. Because they used ICMP to ping servers in the browser (hence why they require admin rights in order for ping to show up, they cheated. ICMP app usage requires Raw sockets, therefore admin rights) it would show anywhere from 40ms to 80ms (typical ping range I only join on) and then get ingame and everybody has a ping of 250ms to 500ms ... So something fishy going on there.

      Hey, be glad your server browser actually shows pings, because mine still doesn't.

      Then also, I think that in-game ping stats are way off, too. Just yesterday I've been playing with a ping of 300+, without any observable lagging, jerky movement etc. It's not just subjective, either, because I've managed to get 3 Ace pins in a row, and consistently topped the player list on both kills and K/D ratio while playing - which is nigh impossible if the ping was really 300.

      At the same time, before that, I've played on servers where in-game ping was reported as 100-120, and it was visibly lagging - as in, you aim at someone and shoot, then half a second later he is teleported to a different position, and meanwhile you find yourself dead.

    3. Re:They already do it, pretty much by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Consider Battlefield: Bad Company 2. A beta was available on Steam more than a month before game release, but you could only access it by pre-purchasing the game. There is a small step from that to splitting the cost between beta content, and full game content.

      Or, more likely, splitting that cost into one reduced beta payment and one not-reduced-at-all game payment.

      I wouldn't mind if you got a discount off of the final game, but you never will.

      Spore was good. £5 for the creature thingy beforehand, gets you £5 off of EA's store, which was £10 more than where I actually bought it from. I bet many people were duped into paying extra for the game because of this, and getting a time-limited-download version (instead of my real disk) in return...

    4. Re:They already do it, pretty much by soupforare · · Score: 1

      I know it's just DICE being DICE but for all the whining there was about no dedicated servers, myself included, MW2 has been a much more stable and smooth game for me. It's kind of depressing.

      --
      --- Do you believe in the day?
    5. Re:They already do it, pretty much by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Consider Battlefield: Bad Company 2. A beta was available on Steam more than a month before game release, but you could only access it by pre-purchasing the game. There is a small step from that to splitting the cost between beta content, and full game content.

      Actually there is a massive difference. People who pre-ordered and get access to the beta also get access to the full game for no extra charge when it is released. Stardock has done this for years. Now paying for the beta, then paying again for the full game is in no way similar to this.

      The job of a demo is to sell me a full game, if I have to pay for the demo this will not happen.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:They already do it, pretty much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now there is no Demo for bad company 2 at all.
      How nice is that?
      EA also deletes and censors all the complaint unfavorable to them on their forums.

        they control the games - DRM
        they control the thoughts - censors
        they control our money - buy up other companies

        EA is a piece of garbage whose games I boycott and tell others to not buy their games or invest in their company.

        FUCK YOU EA. YOU WILL NOT GET ANY MONEY FROM ME!

    7. Re:They already do it, pretty much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the beta keys for bad company 2 were all over the internet. i got a key for free. it was more of an open beta in fact.

    8. Re:They already do it, pretty much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't splitting the costs between the demo and the full game. This demo is a "separate" purchase. $15 more than the game. Getting a beta version of a game once you pre-pay for the full game is fine IMO, as long as the beta version isn't a separate payment. If you were willing to pay $50 for a game, why would you bitch about $50 for a game and the ability to play a beta?

    9. Re:They already do it, pretty much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh come on. Getting into the "beta" version of a game as a result of pre-purchasing a game isn't common, but it isn't a bad thing, and it sure isn't comparable to a monetized game demo. You're pre-purchasing the game. If they want to give it to you earlier than the release date, why are you complaining? The only valid reason to bitch would involve EA charging money AGAIN for access to the beta AFTER purchasing the game. Valve offered their Orange Box for pre-purchase (at ten percent off) with access to the TF2 "open beta" two-weeks before the unlock date. I was there, and I can tell you that that in that two-week period Valve fixed all the major and many of the minor bugs present on release, before the game hit retail, all while letting loyal fans (who paid less for the OB, I remind you) get access to the game two weeks early. No strings attached.

      Charging money for a game demo is a despicable move. Charging the full price (or less) of a game and giving access to a beta version is a smart one, in both the bug-fixing and public relations departments.

  23. The mugs will t to pay for that part twice I guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do I get a discount when I buy the full version since it'll have hours of gameplay that I already paid for?

    This is gettings silly, they're gonna milk the market dry at this rate.

    The wii sold like popcorn for a reason guys. Take a lesson.

  24. Hahahahahahahahahahhahaha (gasp....) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they should try micropayments to look at screen captures...

  25. Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by TheHawke · · Score: 1

    You may put lipstick on a pig, teach her how to dance. But the bottom line she's still a pig. EA's bungling things in a bad way by nickle and diming the masses for software that is not stable, not final. They are going to lose out on that badly.

    --
    First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
    1. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It hadn't hurt Microsoft and they charge full price for their betas.

    2. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      If full price == $0, yes...

    3. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Nope, sorry you are referencing their alpha's which they give away mostly.

    4. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmhm. Besides Vista, go back a couple more years and look at Visual Studio 2005, which had a MASSIVE FUCKING MEMORY LEAK in its implementation of C++ STL streams. Painfully obvious if you used stringstream for anything at all. How do you not test your STL implementation for shit like that?

      It took them *months* to release SP1 to finally fix it.

    5. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Perhaps in the past. Specifically, I'm thinking about Windows 7? The Beta and RC were both free :) Maybe it just depends on the product.

    6. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was that the SP1 that took several hours to install?

    7. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by ooshna · · Score: 1

      I think he was going for funny not insightful.

    8. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But those practices did hurt them eventually. See the antitrust cases that partly allowed Linux to rise to it's rightful place and start challenging Windows as the only Games platform. Wine development is heading towards DX10 support.

    9. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      An MS RC is at best beta software. Always has been always will be. Microsoft pioneered customer based QC testing.

    10. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Yeah but even there Microsoft won. Wine is an implementation of the MS API. If Linux were truly the platform they wouldn't need wine, they'd need a Linux emulator for Windows.

    11. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      I take it you didn't try Windows 7 beta, nor the RC then... I tried both, and they were far better than the Opera 10.50 beta I tried pretty recently, which crashed in the first few hours. And I'm not an Opera hater, I'm actually eagerly waiting 10.50 to come out on Linux (grrr, hurry up).

      I'm guessing that you didn't, because you reference it as something set in stone from the past and not something based on your recent experience with a specific product? ("An MS RC") I haven't tried a whole lot of MS beta products in the past, though I have tried a few. I lied the Windows 7 beta and RC better than my XP box, and actually moved my laptop from openSuSE 11.1/Ubuntu 9.04 to Windows 7 (RC) because it was faster and more stable.

      I may as well retort that OSS betas are, at best, alpha versions. I could cite some specific examples that may even lend credence to that, too, like KDE 4.x (until the most recent version, which I've tried and actually found workable, though I tend to prefer gnome over KDE 4.x).

    12. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      I Ran the Vista RC and the Windows 7 RC, as an MS developer I have to. Next wrong assertion...

    13. Re:Oh, that pig is not going to dance. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      OSS operating systems are free and I won't base my enterprise critical apps on any OSS until I finish the testing. MS asserts that their shipping product is ready for such and charges me an arm and a leg to put it on a machine. Next "Oh yeah, well..."

  26. Call Me Old Fashioned!!! by xQuarkDS9x · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have been a gamer since I was a teenager in the late 80's, and I'm very much used to downloading demo's for free, for the rare times I actually DID download game demo's but instead read tons of reviews and what have you until I got a game. I would not pay money for demo software, because then if it is a crappy game or something I did not like, I would be complaining I wasted a good $15 bucks on a crappy demo, when I could have went and bought lunch somewhere instead! :D

    I see this as another money making ploy by Electronic Art's and for the fanboys to throw away money at demo's.

    --
    You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
  27. So they're charging people to be beta testers? by BaronHethorSamedi · · Score: 3, Funny

    Patcher said, "I think that the plan is to release PDLC at $15 that has 3-4 hours of gameplay, so [it has] a very high perceived value, then [EA will] take the feedback from the community (press and players) to tweak the follow-on full game that will be released at a normal packaged price point."

    So essentially, I pay $15 for the "privilege" of being a beta tester? I get to play (part of) a prerelease version of the game, so I can tell them what needs to be fixed before it ships?

    That last bit is especially rich, coming from a bloke named "Patcher."

    1. Re:So they're charging people to be beta testers? by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

      I would like to point out that, for about $100, people are buying access to the StarCraft II beta on eBay.

      That is, lucky bastards who won a chance to be a part of the beta process have taken to selling their key on eBay. And people are buying them. For upwards of $100.

      --
      -David
    2. Re:So they're charging people to be beta testers? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Hey, at least they're finally just coming out and calling a spade a spade. What pisses me off to no end is the latest rash of "beta tests" where you can only get in by pre-ordering the game or paying some ridiculous subscription price to Fileplanet or some other site. What happened to the days where you signed-up, and in exchange for actually helping them bug/stress test things, you got an early peek for free?

      I'm sorry but being asked to pay to HELP THEM TEST AN UNFINISHED PRODUCT is just insulting. Hire a fucking Q/A monkey. I will continue to pirate games before I purchase them as there are too many releases these days that should have been delayed so they can fix MAJOR SHOWSTOPPING BUGS but was instead rushed out. If they hadn't killed my ability to return games that suck or are broken to retailers I would be fine as I could always return it if it didn't perform as advertised, but not they want their cake and they want to eat it too which I will in no way facilitate.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  28. Back up a second, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I think that the plan is to release PDLC at $15 that has 3-4 hours of gameplay, so [it has] a very high perceived value"

    3 to 4 hours of gameplay at a rate of $15 is percieved as high value?
    To whom?
    I'm assuming EA, because that's a very poor value to me.

  29. The demo of the demo? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't worry, EA has already thought this out.

    Now you can download the demo of the demo. Just $4.99!

    The ad for the demo of the demo. Just $1.99!

    The teaser for the ad for the demo of the demo. Just $0.99!

    Post fan posts discussing a potential new teaser for the ad for the demo of the demo. Just $0.10 a post!

    You know you want it.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  30. Sounds like a plan by FlyByPC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey, if it means that I get more interesting games because they're more profitable to make, cool. I'd pay good money for, say, a sneak preview of the next Elder Scrolls V game (or even an official version of Morroblivion complete with quests). Just please don't make it an online game; that would ruin it.

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    1. Re:Sounds like a plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "if it means that I get more interesting games because they're more profitable to make, cool."

      LOL if you believe this you are a moron.

    2. Re:Sounds like a plan by mqduck · · Score: 1

      a sneak preview of the next Elder Scrolls V game

      I'm pretty sure they have to make the first Elder Scrolls V game before you can be waiting for the "next" one.

      --
      Property is theft.
    3. Re:Sounds like a plan by Cymeth · · Score: 1

      I prefer Obliviwind.

      --
      Can anyone recommend a good therapist for me.. er.. my schizophrenic network card?
    4. Re:Sounds like a plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bethesda said there's no plan to make TES online play. They understand there are those of us that appreciate a single player game. I bought Guild Wars and for some reason having to rely on others to complete quests keeps me from playing the game.

  31. Monetizing ... advertisements? by ryan.onsrc · · Score: 1

    Does it make sense to charge for a test-drive?
    How about eating samples at a grocery store?
    Or collect a fee for reading an advertisement?

    Intuitively, this is patently absurd. But, even at a conceptual level the notion of "monetizing an advertisement" is utterly brain-dead. Now I am going to give these goons at EA the benefit of the doubt and say that they have at least a few pairs of properly functioning neurons firing (every so often). That must mean that they don't actually consider their demos to be advertisements. They are products in and of themselves! Much as it makes sense for someone to live off grocery store samples, commute to work via daily test-drives and avoid sensory deprivation by staring at bill-boards every so often. ... hmm, nevermind.

  32. Stupid EA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn, now we will have to start pirating demos... I don't see how EA thinks this will work out in their favor, dumbass businessmen.

  33. So they are selling the beta versions... by sbeckstead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So they are selling the beta versions and then upping the price after you tell them how to fix it. Ok just like Microsoft's operating system strategy but with MS you don't get the cheap version first.

    1. Re:So they are selling the beta versions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh stop it, your comparison doesn't even make sense, come up with something new... MS does release their OS early, FOR FREE as a beta. Not only one version but multiples. Furthermore you can not compare the price between an OS and a game, if you were to I would say games are much more overpriced then Windows is.

    2. Re:So they are selling the beta versions... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Actually historically only paying msdn subscribers got the betas. So it's actually a pretty good comparison.

    3. Re:So they are selling the beta versions... by WraithCube · · Score: 1

      I'm not normally in the process of defending MS, but in this case MS is leagues ahead of EA. I was able to run a complete version of windows 7 beta for months before it came out without paying a dime.

    4. Re:So they are selling the beta versions... by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Some day Windows 7 will be out of beta too.

    5. Re:So they are selling the beta versions... by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Um, then windows is what?

  34. MGS 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it count as paying for a game demo if you buy a game you don't really want just to get the packed in Metal Gear Solid 2 demo?

  35. Wonder why people use torrents? by pkarlos_76 · · Score: 1

    Over my dead body I'll pay for a Demo!!!!!!!!!!! And they wonder why people use torrents............

    1. Re:Wonder why people use torrents? by Bugamn · · Score: 1

      I wonder why people use so many exclamation marks and dots in a sentence.

    2. Re:Wonder why people use torrents? by pkarlos_76 · · Score: 1

      I wonder why people use so many exclamation marks and dots in a sentence.

      Someone likes to try to imply more emphasis without using a foul language? Could that be a good reason?

    3. Re:Wonder why people use torrents? by Huluvu · · Score: 1

      no, not really.

    4. Re:Wonder why people use torrents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Multiple exclamation marks are a cruder way to indicate emphasis than "foul" language, and multiple ellipses don't indicate anything at all. What, you're trying to say you're somehow trailing off harder?

    5. Re:Wonder why people use torrents? by pkarlos_76 · · Score: 1

      Well at least its not as unprofessional as swearing..... :P

  36. Or... maybe not. by Chyeld · · Score: 1

    EA: We Will Not Charge For "Traditionally Free Game Demos" claims something entirely different and less "OMG the people in EA have been eating LEAD!"

    Not that I don't think a vast majority of the people at EA don't enjoy a good paint chip now and then, I haven't been under a rock you know. I just don't think this particular article is about the consequences of such.

  37. It'll work by GF678 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a stupid idea, but not the way you think. It's stupid for us, but not for EA.

    This will work for EA for the same reason why they can sell DLC which is probably developed at the same time as the game, or considered "cut" content released in the DLC. It will work because impulse gamers DON'T CARE, and will willingly pay money for this shit. We are going down the nickel and dime road of gaming because of apathy and ignorance from the vast majority of consumers who don't know any better and can't be bothered to educate themselves.

    Shit, I still see people who think the DRM in Assassin's Creed 2 or CNC 4 is fine because their internet connection is "rock solid". Yeah, great. Unfortunately it doesn't mean you will still be able to play the game, particularly if EA themselves can't keep their shit working.

    Honestly it's getting to the point where I'm going to take one of there options:
    (1) Stick with old, quality games until I get burnt out on them
    (2) Stick with open-source games which don't do this DRM shit, and only purchase commercial games from independent developers who won't risk this kind of behavior
    (3) Find a new hobby. Probably the most healthy option anyway.

    1. Re:It'll work by santax · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, AC2 is from Ubisoft. Less mentioned but the same week Ubisoft also released Silent Hunter 5, that had the same issues. Nobody was able to play. Well almost nobody. I was. I pirated the game. Thank God. Else I would have paid money for something I could not play and now I have payed nothing for something I could play. Unfortunately the game sucked big time compared to SH4 that I own, so I deleted it. But I really feel sorry for those poor bastards who buy these games with that insane amount of DRM and then on the first day can't log to their servers. I bet you that at the least 90% of those people had no idea what they were buying in terms of restrictiveness. Besides, what ubisoft is doing and EA wants to do is saying: Give me your money, and maybe I will give you a game. That just isn't good enough to encourage me to give you money. Doesn't do it for me.

    2. Re:It'll work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see the problem here. Would you mail a complaint to your representative if Hasbro charged $300 for the Monopoly board game? Who the fuck cares? It's not your right to possess it.

      Why is the video game industry held to a different standard? TBH I wish they would get it over with, and charge $200 for games from now on, so I could see the selfish gamers whine yet again. And they would just pirate them, in a twisted sense of entitlement....

    3. Re:It'll work by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      This will work for EA for the same reason why they can sell DLC which is probably developed at the same time as the game, or considered "cut" content released in the DLC. It will work because impulse gamers DON'T CARE, and will willingly pay money for this shit. We are going down the nickel and dime road of gaming because of apathy and ignorance from the vast majority of consumers who don't know any better and can't be bothered to educate themselves.

      I don't see what the big deal about DLC is. The game companies release a game, you can pay to extend the game if you want. There's nothing to say the company would have released DLC with the game, assuming they didn't have the option, or if they did distribute the DLC with the game, that they wouldn't charge the full price of the game + the price of the DLC. The idea now is that gamers get a choice of how much of the game they want to buy and play, and are required to pay less upfront (relative, of course, to the strength of the game market, which is currently declining). If people don't think a game is worth buying, either because it's too expensive or just not complete enough, then it won't matter how many DLCs there are, the game will flop financially.

      I guess the fear is that these will be used as an excuse to raise prices, but I would say that, given the current state of the games market, price rises are inevitable, and it's probably not a bad idea to spread them out a little. You know, by shortening games (because not everyone wants to play a long, long game), and providing extensions for those who want them.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    4. Re:It'll work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (4) Buy game. Find out there's too much DRM and return it. Complain everywhere.

      (5) Get better-than-original game on Pirate Bay.

      Let the "consumers" hang. If they want to go all console, all the more space for us on the PC. If they want to get DLCed and DRMed to death, perhaps real games can compete by advertising "no DRM". Etc...

    5. Re:It'll work by LatencyKills · · Score: 2, Informative

      Interestingly, I was one of those people who thought my internet connection was rock solid, but as I've been trying to review (shameless plug: game-over.net) CNC4 for a couple of weeks now without being able to complete a SINGLE GAME, I guess that's not the case. I've never had problems with any online games in the past - CoD:MW, CNC3, Kane's Wrath, SC2:Beta - CNC4 regularly reports that I've been dropped from the service and need to log in again (and it doesn't save your PW, BTW). I'm sure glad my game copy came through the review site and I didn't pay for it or I'd really be pissed.

      --
      Jealously hoarding mod points since 2007.
    6. Re:It'll work by chilvence · · Score: 1

      Hah, if they charged 200 for monopoly, I would get two sheets of A3 and some kinder eggs and MAKE my own version!

      Yarr!

    7. Re:It'll work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah, if they charged 200 for monopoly, I would get two sheets of A3 and some kinder eggs and MAKE my own version!

      Yarr!

      Now why does that sound so much more fun than Monopoly?

    8. Re:It'll work by chilvence · · Score: 1

      Because it comes with chocolate and some assembly required?

  38. Demo with DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A payed demo with DRM, muhahahaha

  39. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So we now have to pay the biggest game company in the world to be an extremely valuable resource of thousands of QA testers with the largest variety of hardware. Something seems wrong here...

  40. Emphasis!!!! by pkarlos_76 · · Score: 1

    Sometimes to provide extra emphasis without using foul language? Could that be a good reason?

  41. Unsurprised by Sir_Wulfrick · · Score: 1

    I wish I could say I'm amazed / outraged by this. As it is I'm barely surprised. As others have commented the pay-per-play revenue model seems to be the chosen policy towards which certain publishers appear to be incrementally heading. When I say 'certain publishers', EA and Ubisoft - I'm looking at you. Now we could argue endlessly about the merits of the "piracy is destroying the industry" argument that most such publishers put forwards as the sole defence of their actions, however I have the following observations: 1) This is the upper boundary of the sophistication of the publisher's argument. It isn't a sophisticated dialectic. 2) Most reasonably intelligent gamers are more than able to clearly see through this argument and identify the PPP model as a barely concealed attempt at revenue maximisation. 3) Does everyone remember a few years ago when the average price of a PC game increased from £30 to £35? It hurt a bit, but most players (and thus customers) ultimately accepted it because they were still being treated with a modicum of respect by the publishers. No attempt was made to masquerade the price increase as anything else. 4) My personal view is that the efforts to which developers go to create the games that we love requires renumeration. Games do and should cost money. OK, I think the price for games is a little too high, but I do not and will not pirate games. However 5) I think that what disgusts most players is being treated like thieves by publishing houses who's cynical view appears to be that their customers are insuficiently intelligent to recognise when they're being fleeced by an unsophisticated but greedy revenue model and are simmultaneously subject to arbitrary and draconian restrictions on the use of software that they legitimately purchased. I'd like to single out Stardock as an exemplary publisher. No DRM, not even disk checks. Which is why I've happily and enthusiastically purchased ALL the DLC for Sins of a Solar Empire. Isn't this exactly how we want developers / publishers to behave? They should be enthusiastically supported...

  42. So tired by inkrypted · · Score: 1

    I am so tired of hearing from gaming companies about how the next generation will be cheaper and more stable. Blah they just keep looking for an excuse to rape my wallet. Remember how CD and DVD technology were supposed to make games cheaper? Anything to make a buck. I now have to pay them for the privilege of what sounds like game testing something you used to get paid for or at least some perks.

    --
    Chris Sheppard
  43. Why not... by Zoidbot · · Score: 1

    I mean Microsoft have sucessfully sold broken consoles to games for the latest 4 years, and they even queued by to pay to buy replacement broken consoles.

    Consumers are idiots, gamers in particular, so why no cash in?

  44. I'm all for this by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    The more customers they drive to pirate their software, the better as far as I'm concerned. Then we'll see them in front of congress wining how the evil bit torrent is steeling their monies!

  45. Who cares? by Scatterplot · · Score: 1

    So if there is a short demo that costs zero dollars, and a long demo that costs 15 dollars, and a full game that costs 60 dollars... where do the consumers get screwed exactly? Everyone acts like they're being forced to buy the $15 version. Similarly, Apple has an iPhone, an iPad, and a desktop. Some people want more, some want less. I personally won't buy many $15 mini-games but who knows, some might. It's similar to the ZOMG reactions people have about on-the-disc DLC. It's not like you're FORCED to pay more for the full game; it's up to you to decide what a "full" game means. To me, Bioshock 2 is a full game as-bought. The DLC they can charge extra for, I don't care- it's not like they're taking away something by having ANOTHER option to buy. If a car company develops two cars at about the same time, nobody would be pissed if they bought one car and found out later that oh noez the 4WD version was developed at the same time and then claim they want both cars.

  46. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is only slightly less disgusting than Ubisoft's DRM scheme.

  47. Good luck! by Godji · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe I speak for many gamers when I say that I wouldn't play most of their finished games for free, so good luck trying to sell me a demo.

  48. That's not a demo... by RoboRay · · Score: 1

    ...not a demo at all. That's paying to be a beta tester.

  49. I'll 2nd That! by djdevon3 · · Score: 1

    Definitely paid beta. FUCK EA. Where's Infinity Ward when you need em? Oh wait...

  50. Piracy... by sneaker98 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that'll stop piracy! Way to use your thinkin' caps, EA!

  51. nice by Huluvu · · Score: 1

    i always wanted to pay for semi-broken beta versions

  52. It's sad, too. by dx40sh · · Score: 1

    From what I've seen recently, EA had been doing much better in terms of games. They made my "do not buy" list a few years back with a multitude of lackluster and overpriced games, but they seemed to be turning over a new leaf. With this news, I guess not. [FYI, Ubisoft is the only other publisher/developer on that list atm]


    They killed Command & Conquer, one of my favorite series ever. Outside of that, the only games I see on their released lists that I actually like are Crysis and Mass Effect. Everything else doesn't even interest me. So if I'm essentially a non-customer right now, how exactly is charging me to play demos of their games a good method for acquiring me as a customer ?


    All I see here is a greater prevalence to shopping with companies like Valve. Anybody think TF2 would have done well if they charged you for each update ? Would anybody be playing it ? And instead, they have tens of thousands of players every single day. More than I can say for most games that are almost 3 years old. I just hope they maintain the same attitude with their customers in the future.

    1. Re:It's sad, too. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      They killed Command & Conquer, one of my favorite series ever.

      Yeah, Command and Conquer and Tiberian Sun were great games, it's a shame they never made any sequels.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  53. The reason by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    The reason is, that with EA games, you usually lose interest by the time the demo is over. So they though to themselves: Better get a little money, than none at all.
    Of course it won’t work, since it’s still too expensive for the value.

    Valve did it right. Lower the prices by 75%, and you get so many buyers that you make MORE profit.
    In a couple of years Valve will be offered to buy them, but decline, when they get sold to some strange holding company.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  54. EA already implement this? by stimpleton · · Score: 1

    I purchased BattleField Bad Company 2 three weeks ago. Of the desired 25 or so times I have tried to connect for online play I have been able to play perhaps 4 times over those three weeks.

    If their beta demos are worse than this gaming experience then they will deserve what they get.

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
  55. This could work. It probably won't. by Peganthyrus · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this $15 "demo" is going to be in addition to, or instead of, a traditional free demo.

    Because, you know, I could kinda see it not feeling like a rip-off if it was in addition to a demo. Play a one- or two-level demo that convinces me this game will be Awesome, then have a chance to spend $15 for a handful of bonus levels that'll add on to the entire game? Not so bad. Or play a free single-level demo, then spend $15 for, like, the first three or four levels of the game, with a discount off of buying the whole thing? Not so bad either.

    But having to spend $15 for the privilege of playing what would normally be a free download? Fuck that. I'll go take that $15 and buy a few awesome indy games instead.

    (admittedly I swore off paying $50-60 for AAA titles that eat 40+ hours of my life to finish anyway, so I'm not exactly EA's target audience here.)

    --
    egypt urnash minimal art.
  56. WOW! by joocemann · · Score: 2, Funny

    So you're saying I should have gotten MW2 for $15!

    (Mod it funny; anyone who owns the game knows it took 5 hours)

  57. $5 maybe by Vyse+of+Arcadia · · Score: 1

    I can see paying $5 for 3 - 5 hours of potentially buggier than usual game content. $10-$15 is just ridiculous. I'll wait until the full game, thank you.

  58. Sensationalist Buillshit by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Informative

    What the headline says:

    "EA To Charge For Game Demos"

    What the article says:

    - None of the proposals call for charging consumers for traditionally free game demos.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    1. Re:Sensationalist Buillshit by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Wow! You're replying anonymously to discredit a fact I brought to the conversation by drawing an imaginary line between my literal quote from the article to my bank account. I think your reputation may depend on how well you can distract the viewing public from the dumb-ass posts you made that have turned out to be wrong.

      But... okay, I'll give you what you want. I'll admit to it. EA paid me over a billion dollars to copy and paste what was already said in the article that Slashdot is linking to. They expect to make over two billion beacuse of allLLLLLLLllll the people on Slashdot that normally just love EA to pieces and were just waiting for something like this to come to light to help them make a game purchasing decision. Now that this is known, the barrier that was preventing you from defeating with my point with facts and sound reasoning has been lowered. I await my defeat at your hands, friend.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:Sensationalist Buillshit by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      I think kdawson has taken over all of the editor accounts. The whole site is starting to look like reprints of Daily Mail headlines.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:Sensationalist Buillshit by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wow! You're replying anonymously to discredit a fact I brought to the conversation by drawing an imaginary line between my literal quote from the article to my bank account. I think your reputation may depend on how well you can distract the viewing public from the dumb-ass posts you made that have turned out to be wrong.

      That Anonymous Coward guy has a pretty terrible reputation. Sometimes I wonder why he even bothers logging in.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Sensationalist Buillshit by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Didn't say he originally posted anonymously.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  59. Now with more nametag bug! by soupforare · · Score: 1

    Have you played any EA games this century? While I'm enjoying their current paid beta, they've been at it for a while.

    --
    --- Do you believe in the day?
  60. Maybe that's the point by phorm · · Score: 1

    If nobody buys the demos, then they won't figure out how shitty and bug-ridden the full version will likely be.

    1. Re:Maybe that's the point by Godji · · Score: 1

      Not my problem, unless they want to pay me for QA services.

  61. EA CAN HANG IT WERE THE SUN DONT SHINE by ghinckley68 · · Score: 1

    Subject says it all

    --
    Linux modi 2.6.26-2-parisc
  62. Not a demo by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    What they are proposing is not a demo. The headline on Gamasutra even indicates that this is a form of DLC (DownLoadable Content): "EA To Release Paid DLC Prior To Packaged Game Launches". If I read things right this sounds very much like American monthly comic books and the "zero" issue or in terms of a TV series more of a pilot. There is also an update in the article indicating "None of the proposals call for charging consumers for traditionally free game demos."

    I have seen other companies release semi-episodic games, where the first one is a taster to let the developers know whether it is worth continuing the development. What EA is doing is not really new. Its just being badly presented here.

    Once again the only real flame bait is the /. summary. I am not new here, I just keep on kidding myself that it might be otherwise ;)

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  63. My .02, as it were by BlueF · · Score: 1

    I could see myself buying an extended demo if and only if the purchase price went towards full version (somewhere near 100%). There have been plenty of games I've enjoyed 5-10 hours, purchased the damn thing, yet never get around to finishing. Were I able to purchase a reasonable portion (i.e more than 50-60%), with the option to unlock the entire game, I'd be less inclined to download the full game for free.

  64. Was going to say it doesn't work, but I bought in by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I paid $5 for a preorder of Battlefield:Bad Company 2 simply so I could play the PS3 demo. I had no intention of actually buying the game later, so I guess that technique works pretty well. And honestly, I did easily get $5 of value from it...

    I ended up purchasing the game in the end, but the thing is I was willing to pay $5 for a pretty full-featured demo version.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  65. Good bye video gaming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been playing pirated copies on the C64... on the Amiga... on 8- and 16-bit video games consoles... on Windows... and even on Linux using Wine... I will stop doing that now and just play some sweet Q3A now and then... The only original I ever bought and it is banned in Germany (some Nazi-censorship-nostalgy for the sake of the children i guess)...

  66. sounds like some arcade pricing ways where some g by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    sounds like some arcade pricing ways where some games make you pay more then one time / pay the price to start more then one time to play full game and that happens even if you don't die. Why not just go the old say of having a full game + some add one packs at a later time.

  67. Don't call it what it's not by Karem+Lore · · Score: 1

    A demo is for me to evaluate a game prior to purchase. If I have to purchase the demo, then it's not a demo (short for demonstration).
    Call it what it is... X lite (replace X with name of game).

    --
    When all is said and done, nothing changes...
  68. I pre-ordered BF:BC2 on Steam... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The deal was you got an early taste of the beta. But wait! there's more! They (EA) also charged my credit card right away. The game was utter garbage. 10 days later when I canceled my pre-order the charge was reversed on my cc. This, among other things, was a way to get the interest on hundrreds of thousands of dollars for weeks before the game was even shipped. Why isn't this a scandal?

  69. I did play it. by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    And I enjoyed it. No, it didn't have a particularly large amount of content unless you count GT:TV.

    I also played Torchlight and really enjoyed it.

    I don't see how this has to do anything with my comments. It's still nickle and dime time. Just because a particular "preview" edition of a game is good doesn't mean we won't see massive nickle and diming going forward. Heck, we have it already!

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  70. Re:Sounds like a bad plan by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Hey, if it means that I get more interesting games because they're more profitable to make,

    You're making two critical assumptions, both incorrect.

    1. Making games is unprofitable. You are assuming EA is not making money, this is false. EA is making money, they are just looking for ways to make more money.

    2. If EA makes more money it will go towards production, not shareholder dividends. This is a very shaky assumption considering EA is very interested in increasing it's share price, not it's risk.

    Your also kind of making the assumption that more money equals better games. Given EA's current level of quality I'm hesitant to say EA making more games is a good thing(TM) (gems like BC2 may sneak through but they still have massive bugs).

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  71. Re:sounds like some arcade pricing ways where some by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    why not go the old way all the way and equip the consoles with a coin slot?

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  72. HAAHAHAHAHAHA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good one EA! You really got me with that one.... excuse me while I catch my breath....

    BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.....

    Ok, seriously EA?

    Guess I can add "Game Demos" to my list of EA products not to buy (the rest of the list being "DLC" and "Shitty Games").

  73. Re:sounds like some arcade pricing ways where some by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

    I already have.. The nice thing is, I have the key to take the quarters out afterwards!

    --
    "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  74. Back in my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A demo was worth playing. They had at least 6 complete levels (duke3d), and sometimes more than 8 (doom). These days though, I guess more attention is devoted to developing anti-customer malware to pack in the game, rather than making the games better themselves. I've even heard of some cases where game demos included the capitalistic malware in them.

  75. It sounds bad, but... by AlastairLynn · · Score: 1

    We're talking about demos which are longer than Portal here.

  76. Oblig. Internet Meme: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yo Dawg, I heard you like to try before you buy....

  77. Pay for BETA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you EA for stooping to a new low. Now that want to charge people to be in BETA. At this point I don't think this company can whore itself out more. It's what happens when marketing doosh bags take over a company. Truely sad.

  78. hmm.... seems EA hasn't gotten their sanity back.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry.. my mind read:

    "EA To Charge For Game Demos"

    as:

    "EA puts shotgun barrel in mouth and happily pulls trigger".

    I guess this will encourage more people to have "full-version trials".

  79. Isnt that basically what battlefield 1943 is? by voss · · Score: 1

    $15 for the pc version similar for xbox 360 and ps3, not really a full game but several maps and people enjoy it for what it is.

  80. The new model will be recycling by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Once you've got a decent engine underneath your game, re-skinning it gives you a chance to sell it over and over and over. And re-selling what you already got is profitable, usually.

    Make a few hooks so you can keep adding cool stuff to get past just new uniforms and different buildings, and you've got a franchise-builder. Which is good, cause it usually takes a long time to build a substantially new and improved engine.

    Battlefield in the 1942->Vietnam->BF2 progression 'seemed' a lot like that.

    I would expect as many game writers can will re-use their engines to make different games. How innovative this is, I dunno. If all you get is new maps, weapon shapes, and flags, woop-de-do.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  81. why not just by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not just release the long pay "demo" as the game and release the rest of the game as paid dlc

  82. It doesn't feel complete to me by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    It's not bad for the money, but if you play the free version of Torchlight quickly, you can exhaust the real content there. After that point (2 hours in), it becomes really repetitive. Are you getting $15 in content? Probably. But it's not a complete game by the measure of other games.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:It doesn't feel complete to me by t4inted · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's a complete 15$ game. I spent 100$ on OS: Design and Implementation (AST), I sure as hell expect more from it than I do from issue #1234 from manga xyz for 8$.

  83. RTFA Guys by OrwellianLurker · · Score: 1

    It says four dog hours.

    --
    'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
  84. Starcraft 2 by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right now beta keys for Starcraft 2 are selling for $200 on ebay. Part of me would rather pay Blizzard $15 than a scalper $200 to be in the beta. And what if you got $15 off the released game? I'm not sure it's a terrible deal.

    (Yeah, I'm registered on my battlenet account. If you want to send me a key go ahead;))

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:Starcraft 2 by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      If you got $15 off the final game, then I don't have a problem with it. If beta access is a pre-order boon, that's fine. But paying JUST to be in the beta? I mean, if people will do it, then it's probably a wise decision, but it just seems stupid to me.

      BTW, I happened to get drawn for Starcraft 2 BETA access. That invite was tied directly to my Battle.net account so it's not like I could give it away anyways (not without selling my account with several other games attached anyways), but just last week I was sent a second "Invite a Friend" beta key. Apparently they wanted to test out the friends list and chat functions a bit more and so they wanted to get people who knew each other playing the game. After pondering the possibility of ebaying it for a few minutes, I decided to take the moral high ground and gave it away to a friend.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  85. On day at the GM dealership by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

    A man walks into a GM dealership and cars are on display..
    GM Sales Person "Hello sir I can see you like our latest 4 door"
    Man "eeer yes it looks interesting"
    Gm Sales Person " Would you like to sit in it and get a feel, if you like I could give you a test drive ?"
    30 minutes later..
    Man " the car was interesting but not quiet what I am looking for"
    GM Salesperson " that's OK, if you just now pay our demo fee of $49.95 you can be on your way"
    Man "WTF!!"

  86. Failing again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so when will they start making demos for the demos?

  87. Isn't this just Price Differentiation? by rj78 · · Score: 1

    It sounds like a form of price differentiation. I know the products are not exactly the same, but it's a bit like selling regular coffee alongside fancy coffees with flavours, creme etc. for those that are willing to pay more. I think this is definitely one that the free market will sort out; you can still get the free demos and you can still buy the full game. If there are casual gamers that are willing to buy an in-between version; why not? Maybe those would never have bought a full version at $50-$60 to begin with

    I remember that before the first Sims version, EA/Maxis was very unsure whether the title would be a hit. These long demos allow them to test the market a bit more thoroughly, and if EA finds that this strategy increases (through hype) or decreases (through cannibalization) their total revenue from their titles or franchises, they will probably adjust their strategy accordingly.

  88. FU... by Drethon · · Score: 1

    and the digital horse you road on...

    I will NEVER pay for a sample I want to use to see if I want to buy something.

    Pardon the probably redundant rant but I had to get that off my chest...

  89. bad company 2 bitterness by zoemorn · · Score: 1

    gee, so now they want us to PAY for their beta/demos?? so will PAYing for their demo/beta mean that they'll actually release a game that functions upon opening week... o sry, opening 2 weeks... o wait, what week are we in on Bad Company 2 and it still doesnt have full functionality? sorry, i'm a bitter BC2 PC user. and pls, no flames about "all games have bugs" blah - i've been playing pc games for the last 10+ yrs... and this has been one of, if not the worst, displays of broken functionality I've ever seen.

  90. Re:Gaming Iphone?! by Aklyon · · Score: 1

    No the Iphone isn't. It is King of the Fart App.

    --
    I reserve the right to have a physical object so I can sell it later, and recover my money.
  91. Bah, humbug. by pubwvj · · Score: 0

    Apparently they don't get the point. They want us to buy. We don't want to. They need to wet our appetites with demos. No demo, no sale.

  92. New Category... by allcaps · · Score: 1

    So, a Fremio? (Fremium + Demo)

  93. Where will it end? by Zer0xChan · · Score: 1

    Pretty soon EA will package USB-operated coin machines where you have to put a quarter in to play your game, and an EA representative comes by every month to collect the change.

  94. Discount on the full version by origin29 · · Score: 1

    I could see this working if the price paid for the PDLC could be applied towards the full version, but as many others have noted this is probably a pay-for-beta or nickel-and-dime scheme. Even if it's not, players are going to feel cheated, not try the demo, and not buy the game. Good job, EA

  95. EA is known for price gouging by jhcaocf197912 · · Score: 1

    They're like the Microsoft of the video game industry. Good business models, but bad innovations.

  96. They've got to be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    f---ing joking! Is there no depth that EA will NOT sink to?

  97. EA Good job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holly shit, I haven't pay for any EA games for 10 years, and never I will. EA & UBI, worst publisher ever on this planet. The only demo I would like to pay for is GT5P on PS3, and actually I did pay for that.