WePad Tablet Will Use Linux To Rival the iPad

cypherdtraitor writes with news of an iPad rival being prepped in Germany for a June launch. "A German company, Neofonie GmbH, has set out to provide an alternative to the iPad, according to Neofonie's founder, Helmut Hoffer von Ankershoffen. The WePad will boast a Linux-based OS, USB ports, webcam, and Wi-Fi, as well as other features. The 16GB edition will cost €449 ($610), and the 32GB €569 ($773). A more expensive model will include a 3G modem. This PDF compares WePad specs with the iPad. There are also hints of cheap, available software. For example, OpenOffice.org will be the primary office suite, and you may use 'any application that pleases you' to play music and video, a clear edge over Apple's limitation to iTunes." The WePad will also run Flash.

Comments

WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

First, there was the iPad for those nerdy chicks..

Now our children will have the "WeeWeePads"?

Who comes up with these names? And more disturbingly, what did they name their children?

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

I see nothing wrong with these names,

signed Gwyneth Paltrow's Daughter, Apple

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

No wired connection. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Re:WeeWeePad

[sopssa]

WePad makes sense anyway. It's both pun of iPad and illustrates the product - it's more for us and since it uses Linux it allows multiple user accounts, good privacy and better security. iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

It also looks awesome and you can use applications or develop them yourself. You can run scripts and most ssh in to the tablet. It shows Flash. At this point I would either get this or Courier, as the iPad seems really limited and you have to hack it for it to be any use. Oh and it supports multitasking too.

Re:WeeWeePad

[sopssa]

No wired connection.

You can use USB. You can't with iPad.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Thud457]

and Microsoft will dub their ill-begotten progeny the " MyPad ", keeping in line with proper camel-case and reflecting the atavistic possessiveness of an autistic two-year-old.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's an iPad for when your periods occur simultaneously.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Hijacked Public]

I don't think, at this point, you would get a WePad or a Courier over an iPad because at this point neither the WePad nor the Courier can be bought.

Microsoft's Courier would be great if it ever got here, unmolested by the sort of idiocy that gave us the Zune Marketplace. But it won't. The WePad might or it might not, I have no idea.

Re:WeeWeePad

[WrongSizeGlass]

and Microsoft will dub their ill-begotten progeny the " MyPad "

If it's Zune compatible you'd be able to ask someone to "squirt on over to mypad" ... and then we could all throw up together.

Re:WeeWeePad

[c6gunner]

iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

My biggest concern isn't kids/friends/etc - as long as there exists the possibility that it could get lost or stolen, I'm going to be fanatical about keeping it free of personal info. Now, if it were possible to encrypt the system volume, THEN I might start trusting it with my data, and in that case multiple accounts would make sense. Otherwise, it really doesn't make a difference.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

WePad makes sense anyway. It's both pun of iPad and illustrates the product - it's more for us and since it uses Linux it allows multiple user accounts, good privacy and better security. iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

You're making some big assumptions there. Android "runs linux", but you don't get multiple users. Maemo "runs linux" and you don't get multiple users. Just because it "runs linux" does not mean the interface you are given supports multiple independent users. It doesn't even mean you have the ability to swap the installed image for a linux that does what you want, like allow for multiple independent user accounts.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Kreigaffe]

You obviously are not part of the Apple Collective or you would see the wisdom in only allowing 1 user and no guest account.

If someone else wants to use your iPad, good! But don't let them, because it's only YOURS. Flame their jealousy. Soon, they will cave under the pressure and buy their own iPad.

It's a single user product, you understand. Sharing is verboten.

Re:WeeWeePad

[BasilBrush]

iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

Of course I don't. I expect them to use their own mobile computing device. The days of one computer per family are long since gone. Multiple accounts aren't worth the extra complexity for consumer mobile devices.

Re:WeeWeePad

[cayenne8]

"iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?"

Ok, I've seen this issue raised more than a couple of times on here in recent past....do THAT many people actually let kids, friends or random people even touch their computers, much less log onto them and use them?

Most people I know have their own computers/smartphones. Why they hell would someone ever really need to get on one of my computers? I mean, Ok, I can see maybe a freak occurrence of this need once every couple years...but, not enough for it to become a problem.

Re:WeeWeePad

[sopssa]

iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

Of course I don't. I expect them to use their own mobile computing device. The days of one computer per family are long since gone. Multiple accounts aren't worth the extra complexity for consumer mobile devices.

Uh, a lot of families have a single computer with multiple user accounts for each family member. It's usually enough, especially if you have a single kid still living at home and don't use the computer so much. It only makes sense when the parents or kids are more geeky or spend more time on computer. We slashdotters do, but not most people.

Also, when my friends or sister or someone else is over and wants to use my computer, I hate it when they do so using my own user account. Not only they can see what tabs I have open in my browser, read my emails and IM windows or any files/photos, they mess up the browser and other apps from the state I left it at.

Extra complexity isn't an excuse. Have it default to one user account (like all Windows, Linux and Mac do), but have the possibility of creating other ones too. Your reasoning is the same as when most people say that not allowing multitasking saves battery time and there won't be programs in the background eating up cpu, but you can just have a setting to enable it and the default to the Apple way. One setting that makes your device a lot nicer for the people who want multitasking.

Re:WeeWeePad

[babyrat]

do THAT many people actually let kids, friends or random people even touch their computers

Yes...well maybe not random people, but kids and friends absolutely. I have since learned to set 'Airplane Mode' before I give my iPhone to my 3 year old.

Re:WeeWeePad

[History's Coming To]

Well...yes. I do at least. My desktop runs a ushare media server for the flat with our collection of cult sci-fi. My flatmates have a fairly restricted login so they can watch Doctor Who when I'm not around. They can do far less damage to the maching with that login than they could with, say, a small hammer or a careless cup of tea. If it wasn't theoretically possible to do that then I can understand a single user policy, but it is possible. Car analogy: why do you need an adjustable seat? It's not like you're going to let somebody else drive your car is it?

Re:WeeWeePad

[sopssa]

It's quite often (actually pretty much always when people are over for some beers) when friends say "can I check my facebook?" or girlfriends or similar want to do some browsing, chat on IM or forums etc. People don't really carry their computers with you. It's a lot more comfortable when they can login to guest account rather than mine with an open browser, email, IM and all my other stuff.

Re:WeeWeePad

[HTH NE1]

Oh, just go and build a functioning replica of a PADD from Star Trek:TNG and move on.

Re:WeeWeePad

[yotto]

I absolutely love how this comment directly follows this comment currently in my view. Couldn't be better timed, guys. Thanks!

Re:WeeWeePad

[bane2571]

You're right, plenty of families have one PC per family, those that can afford to waste money on an iPad probably have 6 or 7.

Re:WeeWeePad

[GaryOlson]

Would these people be called iegotists or inarcissists?

Re:WeeWeePad

[cayenne8]

"Car analogy: why do you need an adjustable seat? It's not like you're going to let somebody else drive your car is it?"

Holy shit NO!!

My last three cars...I can count on one hand the number of people that ever even sat in the driver seat, much less actually drove the damned thing!!!

For one thing, most people these days can't drive a standard, and second, well I don't generally turn anyone loose in a 2x seat performance sports car...it is just too tempting for them to do something stupid. You don't let people ride your motorcycle either...

Re:WeeWeePad

[blankaBrew]

I just searched weepad through youtube... LOL....LOL...LOL

Re:WeeWeePad

[sbeckstead]

hmmm, but it's not an iPad, not made by Apple and well I guess that's enough.

Re:WeeWeePad

[AHuxley]

You can pull your weewee out in the garden and flash your fans around the world via the webcam.
You can use flash to broadcast on Linux right?

Re:WeeWeePad

[node 3]

iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account, do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

My biggest concern isn't kids/friends/etc - as long as there exists the possibility that it could get lost or stolen, I'm going to be fanatical about keeping it free of personal info. Now, if it were possible to encrypt the system volume, THEN I might start trusting it with my data, and in that case multiple accounts would make sense. Otherwise, it really doesn't make a difference.

The iPhone 3GS encrypts the filesystem. That's why securely erasing it is instant. I don't know if the iPad does the same, but it seems likely.

You can set a 4 digit PIN, and have it erase itself after 10 failed attempts. You can also erase it remotely using MobileMe (although this won't be as easy on the WiFi-only iPad, but once someone connects to WiFi, instant erase).

Re:WeeWeePad

[node 3]

You obviously are not part of the Apple Collective or you would see the wisdom in only allowing 1 user and no guest account.

Clearly you are not part of the "Apple Collective", as you don't see the wisdom. It's not to goad people into buying their own iPad. It's for two reasons, and two reasons only:

1. It would complicate the system. Yes, I know you and most of the people reading this would have no problem with it, but for the average person, that would be something that gets in the way. Yes, I know you can probably imagine a way to have it off by default, but enabled via a preference, etc., etc., but Apple doesn't do things like that. More on this below.
2. Apple hasn't gotten around to it.

#2 may appear to contradict #1, but just like Copy and Paste and multitasking, if Apple can come up with a unique way to enable this feature that does not cause usability problems, they very well might do it. However, unlike Copy and Paste, and multitasking, multi-user does not seem like it'd be much of a priority. iPhone OS is a fully capable multi user OS (it's OS X).

If you want multi user, I suggest putting in a feature request to Apple. If enough people ask, they will do it. I just don't think, even if everyone reading this who wants multi user asks for it, the numbers will be enough. But it's always worth a shot.

Re:WeeWeePad

[safetyinnumbers]

I have since learned to set 'Airplane Mode' before I give my iPhone to my 3 year old.

I bought some iPod Touch games for my 2-year-old, which was great until he started deleting apps and changing settings (a backup isn't that useful because I either lose the app's data by reinstalling, or restore from the last backup and lose all recent changes).

A guest account would be ideal for him (although I'd never have thought to give him access to Minesweeper).

Re:WeeWeePad

[babyrat]

Wow - I'm not sure what to make of this comment - I used to let people drive my corvette all the time.

I lent my 928 to a good friend's son to take his date to the prom.

And my sports bike? Only if I think you can handle it, but that includes a lot of people I know.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Compaqt]

Same here. Someone comes over, wants to check their mail or whatever, just choose Guest Session from the Ubuntu login menu, and it opens up a "default" non-customized session where your friend can do whatever he wants.

When he logs out, you log back in.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

Any feature not currently provided by the iPad is unnecessary, until such time as that feature gets introduced, at which point it is unique and revolutionary. SJRDF.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

How strange... sometimes my wife drives my car. Sure, she has her own and she doesn't drive mine every day, but it happens often enough that I'd never consider buying a car that didn't allow her to adjust the seat, the mirrors, or have her own key. It'd be stupid if we had to bring both cars everywhere with us, when one would do. Sometimes we switch off driving on a long trip when one of us is tired, or when one is more familiar with the area we're visiting. I've even loaned my car to a friend who only has a small sports car when he's needed to move something that wouldn't fit. But then, I expect my car to be useful, not a status symbol that shows everyone how hip or rich I am - kind of like my computer. Your mileage (literal and figurative) may vary.

Re:WeeWeePad

[node 3]

Any feature not currently provided by the iPad is unnecessary, until such time as that feature gets introduced, at which point it is unique and revolutionary. SJRDF.

Please quote where I used the word "unnecessary" or anything similar.

Re:WeeWeePad

[BasilBrush]

Uh, a lot of families have a single computer with multiple user accounts for each family member.

In my experience the ones geeky enough to understand about multiple accounts have multiple computers. The ones that don't care so much about computers and so only have one computer mostly have everyone using a single account.

Extra complexity isn't an excuse. Have it default to one user account (like all Windows, Linux and Mac do), but have the possibility of creating other ones too. Your reasoning is the same as when most people say that not allowing multitasking saves battery time and there won't be programs in the background eating up cpu, but you can just have a setting to enable it and the default to the Apple way. One setting that makes your device a lot nicer for the people who want multitasking.

No, it isn't an excuse, it's a reason.

1) Having an option for every possible functionality isn't an answer. You end up with something like Azureus (Vuze). If you've never seen it, this will give you an idea. http://cobolhacker.com/images/content/torrent/vuze_options_screen_s.jpg There are so many pages of options, the index of pages is hierarchical.

2) You have to consider the ramifications of user accounts. How does the user share data between them? For example if they acidentally created a document when it was logged in as someone else. On a desktop OS, you have certain folders that you share. And a file manager for moving the document to and from that folder. On the iPhone OS, there is no user access to folders. Each application looks after it's own data, in a way suitable for that data. So either the user can't move that data, or every app has to have it's own extra UI to do so. Which isn't impossible, just pointless and confusing for a device that almost no one would ever set up multiple accounts on.

3) An option to allow multitasking is a bad idea too. Not only because of the too many options problem. But because people without full understanding would end up enabling it, or having it enabled for them, and then whine about poor battery life when some background app kept eating up the battery. And other people would wonder why their iPhone won't multitask when everyone else's does.

Most of the time, having an option to switch advanced functionality on or off is a bad idea. It's usually better for the designers to make sensible choices in the first place. Though this concept won't be understood by most on /. as few here understand design - hence the usability disaster that is Linux.

Re:WeeWeePad

[SpaghettiPattern]

do you really want to let your kids, friends or random people to use it access all your browser history, photos, emails and such?

Perv! (The privilege of touching oneself whilst researching the Internet I though was exclusively mine.)

Come to think of perv-ing, is a (xyz)Pad suitable for spanking the monkey? I say it's a tall order to beat the notebook at beating the bishop.

Re:WeeWeePad

[icebraining]

Maemo "runs linux" and you don't get multiple users.

Wrong. You can login as root and then create new users: http://www.arachnoid.com/linux/nokia/

Maemo runs a real distro, while Android runs the kernel with a different userland (not Gnu).

Re:WeeWeePad

[icebraining]

Though this concept won't be understood by most on /. as few here understand design - hence the usability disaster that is Linux.

Yes, most of us have a tough time relating to morons.

Car analogy: all cars have access to their "internals". You can lift the hood and mess around with the engine, breaks, battery, etc. Yet it works fine, because people know they shouldn't mess if they don't know what they're doing, and if they do mess, they don't blame Ford for it.

Now comes Volvo with its concept car "for women", the YCC. Its hood doesn't open (no, really). And they expect us to believe that this is beneficial to people who don't know "cars", because they won't mess around with it.

The difference is that the YCC never passed from a concept, and the iPhone is widely successful. Morons.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should try http://www.wefind.com to clearify this question!!! ;-)

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't believe people are still punting that MS vapourware Courier as a valid iPad competitor

Also, since when did MS get so heavily into hardware production? How soon before all of their
hardware partners get the message and turn to competitors (the very few left) or roll their own
software/os support from Linux?

Re:WeeWeePad

[ThatsNotPudding]

It all Depends.

Re:WeeWeePad

[BasilBrush]

Car analogy: all cars have access to their "internals". You can lift the hood and mess around with the engine, breaks, battery, etc. Yet it works fine, because people know they shouldn't mess if they don't know what they're doing, and if they do mess, they don't blame Ford for it.

I don't know how old you are, but at one time that was really true. You could get a Xenon timing lamp really cheaply, and adjust your timing with a spammer and a screwdriver. And you could adjust your mixture in the Carburetor. etc. Now you can't do much. It's fuel injection with an engine management system controlling it. And as an end-user, you don't have access to the cable and software required to tinker with it.

Of course hobbyist mechanics bemoan the change. Because they can't tinker any more. But everyone else is more than happy, because the cars run better, have longer periods between services, and are more reliable than those old cars.

Now, by all means, if you're a slashtard, get yourself a crummy Linux tablet, and play with it to your hearts content. Make user accounts, recompile the kernel, use ssh and grep. Fill your boots. But most people will go for the more usable, more reliable iPad.

Re:WeeWeePad

[KlomDark]

What? Erasing is instantaneous because the filesystem is encrypted?

That makes no sense, unless it needs to decrypt the data before it erases it (Which would slow things down, not speed them up), I don't think that the data being encrypted has anything to do with speed.

Re:WeeWeePad

[KlomDark]

Shill for Apple much? Getting a kick-back?

Re:WeeWeePad

[English French Man]

if it were possible to encrypt the system volume, THEN I might start trusting it with my data

Apparently it runs Linux. This might not be a problem

Re:WeeWeePad

[English French Man]

Huh? I drove my parents car a lot when I was 18-20, and I am taller than both my parents, so yeah, adjustable seats are cool.

I also used my parents PC before I could buy my own. And I've used friends and family's telephones from time to time too. I've played with colleague's iPhones and let them play with my Android phone. I let friends and family use my computer at home. I would set user accounts should I want to hide something, or let them use it for extended period of time.

Interestingly enough, I know a lot of people who shares their computer, phones, cars, whatever.

Re:WeeWeePad

[BasilBrush]

And there one sees the point at which the slashtard crosses the line into paranoia.

Re:WeeWeePad

[sopssa]

I think what he means is that you don't need to erase (and overwrite) the filesystem because it's encrypted. You just start overwriting it with your new data.

Re:WeeWeePad

[icebraining]

But everyone else is more than happy, because the cars run better, have longer periods between services, and are more reliable than those old cars.

But that's not because the cars are closed! The fact that you can't tinker with cars anymore is due to an advance in technology, that technically prevents tinkering. The same technology also improves performance, reliability, etc. No car company has made a car to prevent tinkering*, it was a side effect.

The fact that you can't tinker with the iPhone has nothing to do with "technology improvements"; it was specifically design to prevent tinkering for no good reason, except to prevent morons from "accidentally" messing around with stuff (even if it had over 9000 warnings) and blaming Apple.
And, of course, to give Apple a cut for every app sold, and enable them to block whatever app they want.

Now, I know I can buy another pad. But that was the point of this thread: to discuss the WePad. And I like the WePad because it doesn't compromise feature to help users not kicking themselves in the balls.

*I mean, they did, that was the YCC; and as I said it was never sold.

PS: I'm actually fairly young, young enough to only be able to buy 10+ year old cars:|

Re:WeeWeePad

[BasilBrush]

The fact that you can't tinker with the iPhone has nothing to do with "technology improvements"; it was specifically design to prevent tinkering for no good reason, except to prevent morons from "accidentally" messing around with stuff (even if it had over 9000 warnings) and blaming Apple.

OK, your first mistake is to assume people who aren't computer geeks are morons. In life you'll come across plenty of people who have knowledge, wisdom, skills and talents far greater than your own in many areas. Musicians, teachers, artists, linguists, entrepreneurs whatever. And they don't necessarily have the domain knowledge, interest or time to tinker around with their computing devices. They just want to use them as tools. They want something that just works in a sensible, easily understandable and easy to use way. And that does not make them morons.

Yes, the reason for cars and the iPhone/iPad being less tinkerable than their predecessors is different. That's where your nalogy falls down. All analogies fall down at some point, because they always refer to something which is not the same.

The reason for the iP*'s lack of tinkerability is good user interface design. Having an option for everything everyone might want is a recipe for producing the kind of arcane unusable shit Linux has always been.

And, of course, to give Apple a cut for every app sold, and enable them to block whatever app they want.

There's a case in point. The prices of apps are so low that Apple's 30%-costs is only worth much if vast quantities of apps are sold. On previous mobile devices the 3rd party app market has been tiny. Why? Because people were confused by where to find apps and how to get them off the web and and installed on their device, and there's a resistance to filling out credit card details on yet another site. Apple is so successful with it's apps because it's removed nearly all the hurdles to people buying them and installing them. Once someone has an account, they buy and install an app with a single button tap and the entering of their password.

Apple is successful because they remove hassle. They make the things that most people want to do really easy. Easy and pleasant.

Re:WeeWeePad

[icebraining]

OK, your first mistake is to assume people who aren't computer geeks are morons. In life you'll come across plenty of people who have knowledge, wisdom, skills and talents far greater than your own in many areas. Musicians, teachers, artists, linguists, entrepreneurs whatever. And they don't necessarily have the domain knowledge, interest or time to tinker around with their computing devices. They just want to use them as tools. They want something that just works in a sensible, easily understandable and easy to use way. And that does not make them morons.

No. The morons are those who try to use the "advanced" features even if they know full well they don't understand them.

I have a car. Since I'm not an expert in cars, I don't go around unplugging the battery cables and disconnecting water tubes. When it breaks, I take it to an expert (my mechanic).
Why can't people do the same with computers? If they don't know what it means, don't click it!

The reason for the iP*'s lack of tinkerability is good user interface design. Having an option for everything everyone might want is a recipe for producing the kind of arcane unusable shit Linux has always been.

OS X is tinkerable. I can launch a Terminal, su to root and install any app. Besides being able to recompile stuff, I can do almost anything I want. By that rational, OS X interface is shit. Is it?
Linux interface is shitty (for normal users), not because it's not limited, but because it was made by developers, who don't have any problem understanding what's shown.

OS X has a good interface *and* the means to do advanced stuff. It's just hidden, as it could be on the iPad/iPhone. Hell, make it a "combo" like writing "activateadvancedfeaturesyesiknowwhatimdoing" in the search box or something. No casual user would ever hit that.

There's a case in point. The prices of apps are so low that Apple's 30%-costs is only worth much if vast quantities of apps are sold. On previous mobile devices the 3rd party app market has been tiny. Why? Because people were confused by where to find apps and how to get them off the web and and installed on their device, and there's a resistance to filling out credit card details on yet another site. Apple is so successful with it's apps because it's removed nearly all the hurdles to people buying them and installing them. Once someone has an account, they buy and install an app with a single button tap and the entering of their password.

The existence of an App Store doesn't mean you have to block any other source for apps. Again, you can make it a hidden feature, so that non-power users don't try it.

Apple is successful because they remove hassle. They make the things that most people want to do really easy. Easy and pleasant.

Yes, they do. But restricting is not necessary for that, and OS X proves it.

Re:WeeWeePad

[Anonymous Coward]

What you said was

multi-user does not seem like it'd be much of a priority.

If it's not "unnecessary", then I don't see how you can make the quoted statement, without adding a bunch of qualifiers to "necessary" that were'n't there in the first place.

If I were you I would have picked on the assertion that you'd think it unique and revolutionary if/when it does occur.

Re:WeeWeePad

[supssa]

Yes I hate Apple products because they're expensive and my home country is poor as well. Lets hate hate hate.

TROLL

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL!

The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Why am I suddenly reminded of the days in the 70's and 80's when everything ran CP/M and everything *had* to run CP/M? I know that Apple II *DID* run CP/M of some flavor, but CP/M *sucked*, and Apple showed nearly no support for it.

Now we're stuck with Flash, which everyone tolerates and does a lot, but again, it *sucks*. Adobe hasn't put together a decent Flash interpreter for ANY OS(well, the Windows version is debatable), and everyone puts up with it because of it's ubiquity.

Folks. Ubiquity is never a reason to keep a shitty idea around. Particularly when it comes to the mobile space.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[viridari]

The Apple II did not run CP/M out of the box. You needed a Z80 card to do that.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Serenissima]

You're right, but it's going to take time to move on to new ideas. HTML5 is awesome, but certainly not ubiquitous. ANY internet enabled device that does not provide users with the ability to view content that is EVERYWHERE on the internet is going to give the customer who purchases that device a limited internet experience. Sure Flash sucks, but it's out there, and it's all over the place. It's just plain stupid to not give customers the ability to view that content.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Gerald]

Hence the "Apple showed nearly no support for it"?

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[grub]

I know that Apple II *DID* run CP/M of some flavor, but CP/M *sucked*, and Apple showed nearly no support for it.

For years I ran CP/M on my Apple ][+, mostly to use WordStar. I still use Joe (WordStar look-alike) as my editor under any *nix I get my grubby hands on.

Anyhow, yes, the support from Apple was basically "here's a Z80 card, you're on your own."

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet the iPhone was the best 'internet experience' mobile phone on the planet when it came out. In spite of the fact that it didn't have flash.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

I normally tolerate a lot of the Apple fanboyism since, although often exaggerated, there is a small kernel of truth to many of their claims. However, this is one that needs to end: THE IPAD'S LACK OF SUPPORT WILL NOT BRING THE END OF FLASH. Even if I could be convinced that the iPad is going to be a smashing success, it will never be a big enough player to curb the usage of flash on the web.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[e2d2]

Okay. What about money. Is money a good idea to keep something around? Businesses tend to think yes. "Throw away all your flash formatted content" is not really something you want to hear as a decision maker who's heavily invested in the format. And considering the iPad device is geared towards things like video, it's a no brainer to support what is now become a standard. Okay so you support HTML5, but what about the meantime as everyone converts?

But let's skip the bullshit. This is a corporate game and the end user suffers for it. You can pretend Apple has your best interest in mind if you like, but the facts speak for themselves. They have limited functionality to poke a competitor in the eye. A competitor that basically kept their Mac platform alive with their creative tools. It's pretty messed up IMHO.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[hoggoth]

> And yet the iPhone was the best 'internet experience' mobile phone on the planet when it came out. In spite of the fact that it didn't have flash.

"These aren't the missing features you're looking for", Steve Jobs waves his hand.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

is your real name Steve Jobs?

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[sopssa]

If want to view Flash videos (like most people do), I do think it bothers them. Sure there are apps for YouTube and such, but your Flash is still broken on other websites. How exactly is iPhone the best 'internet experience'? Other mobile phones work good especially if you have (or get) the Opera mobile browser for it.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Hurricane78]

You know what suck s more than Flash? The iPad, and its fanbois.

No anythingPad for me any time soon. And I’m also not on any “side” (which only exists in some people’s head) either. TYVM. :)

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[e2d2]

I notice you said when it came out. When they came out with Safari there was hardly any competition. Those days are over. We have alternatives now. So they need to step up or step off. It's always some BS wrapped in a technical argument. Oh flash is too heavy. Translation: we're control freaks and we're Apple so we don't pay for licenses to competing products.

I want to be clear - I'm not a fan of flash. The iPhone and iPad are both great devices but they lack functionality. I don't see how that's an advantage from any angle.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Eravau]

It's just plain stupid to not give customers the ability to view that content.

Then I guess the web sites who make ad or subscription revenue from people viewing their site better get with it and convert their content to HTML5 (like several large sites have already done) if they want the revenue from those particular eyeballs.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[sjonke]

You've still got a floppy drive, don't you, and one of those genuinely floppy ones too, right? Or you did, up until they took it out of your cold, dead hands.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[gbjbaanb]

no, it doesn't *have* to run Flash. It *can* run Flash. That's an important difference if you care about what you're allowed to run on your machines.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[sjonke]

If the new iPhone Opera mini browser is like what you are talking about... then ouch, you've got a lot to learn about mobile web experiences. Opera mini is easily one of the worst web experiences I've had in a long, long time. Astoundingly bad. It doesn't render anything properly, it's only marginally faster, stuff doesn't work like, um, a checkbox on one page I frequently visit - the one that says, "keep me logged in". Etc, etc. If that's the best experience you've had, you really need to give the iPhone's Safari browser a try. No, you won't see Flash, but everything else is awesome, and Flash has *always* sucked on Macs. It's not going to be any better on the iPhone - Adobe doesn't care. So... we need to move on to HMTL5 and put this bad nightmare that is Flash behind us.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[BasilBrush]

No one is suggesting that Adobe are wanting to charge Apple for a license for Flash. Nor that Apple refusing to support Flash is a license fee avoiding move. You have that wrong.

The advantage comes from Apple killing proprietary Flash on the internet and it's replacement with the HTML5 open standard. Apple does have that power. Many websites are already moving away from Flash for this very reason.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's iPhone + iPod touch + iPad. That's quite a large chunk of users. That's also products from a world-known company which happens to be in media too.

And Apple isn't pushing for something from Apple (unlike Microsoft who'd like to see Silverlight everywhere), they're pushing for HTML5 that everybody else also wants.

Why go against Apple in this case?

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Genevish]

Your post pretty clearly establishes you ARE on a side...

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[BasilBrush]

It's not just the iPad, it's the iPhone as well. And sites already are changing because of that pressure.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I'm not saying it will, I'm saying in general, Flash needs to GTFO. I saw this site use Flash as a simple graphics banner. Flash is being abused pretty badly for the worst shit ever. it needs to get the fuck out.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[PinchDuck]

CP/M had Wordstar, a true 80 column word processor. For the longest time, you either had AppleWriter, which wasn't 80 column, or Magic Window, which featured a virtual scrolling area. Neither one was as good as WordStar. CP/M was basically a necessity for any real work involving word processing.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Moralpanic]

NOBODY is saying keep flash around simply because of it's ubiquity. Everybody i know realizes that HTML5 is the future, but there are still a huge number of sites out there running flash, and to drop it all of a sudden is not the answer.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The alternatives are *NIX based Phone OSes running web browsers based on WebKit with(usually) multitouch.

GEE.

THAT SOUNDS EERILY FAMILIAR.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[sjames]

Yes. It merely sucked. The rest sucked boulders through a straw. That made it the best 'internet experience'.

In a world of uniform crap, just sucking less can be a big deal, until something else comes around that sucks even less or perhaps even doesn't suck at all.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[hmar]

I have never tried to go to a flash heavy website from any mobile phone. I have a feeling it might be a bigger issue on the iPad, with its larger screen.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[bdenton42]

I would not expect a large Flash animation to work on a dinky device such as an iPhone or iTouch.

But give me a 10" screen and tell me "It's the best way to experience the web"... then yes I expect Flash to work. And if it didn't work, I'd be expecting it to be "coming soon". Since neither appears to be the case IMO iPad is flawed at it's core.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[toadlife]

Opera Mini != Opera Mobile

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

That I can agree with.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[inpher]

Okay so you support HTML5, but what about the meantime as everyone converts?

You utilize graceful degradation.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[shutdown -p now]

And yet the iPhone was the best 'internet experience' mobile phone on the planet when it came out.

Subjective. Arguable.

In spite of the fact that it didn't have flash.

But which other phone did?

And if you compare iPhone browsing experience to that on the desktop (or netbook), it still sucks big time.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ubiquity has been the only reason things stay around. Microsoft's attempts at OS's definitely are not ready for the desktop. Yet, Windows XXX lives on. The reason. Simple enough everyone else runs Windows so (insert company or family name here) must too. You want a crappy mail reader, try Outlook, yet because it's the only one MS produces, your boss will stick you with it. No Ubiquity IS the reason most tech survives. That and fear of making a decision (The old, "No one ever get's fired for buying IBM" routine.)

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[e2d2]

You'll be gracefully degrading to a site that doesn't play videos. Not really a solution for sites that are video based like Hulu.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Hamsterdan]

Then so did Commodore. I still have my CP/M cartridge here, it included a Z80 CPU, kinda the same with the Apple ][, but it's external instead.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Hognoxious]

CP/M sucked? Most things do, when compared to things developed a decade or so later.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

wow what an amazing short term view
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I want my flash now WAAAAAAA
it might mean that you have to wait but in the end the web will be a better place.
less flash is always better

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[david_thornley]

As I remember, CP/M sucked no more than any other operating system I was using, and it used fewer resources. It was therefore my favorite OS until I encountered MacOS, which was my favorite OS until I got familiar with Unix.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet the iPhone was the best 'internet experience' mobile phone on the planet when it came out. Because of the fact that it didn't have flash.

FTFY.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[MyFirstNameIsPaul]

I think you're missing the point of Opera Mini and confusing it with Opera Mobile.

The point of Mini is just to have a simple, fast browser that renders text quickly. For reading articles on my BlackBerry I haven't found a better option. It magically makes every column of text the exact width of the screen while rendering it in a nice, large font. Pages are easily browsed using only the number pad, with 5 for zoom and up, down, left, right the 2, 8, 4, 6 keys respectively. Plus, when moving across the page using the number keys, it automatically aligns to the columns of text on the page.

Whenever I'm doing something that requires me to fill out forms and such, I switch to the BlackBerry browser, which on the Bold is a reasonably good browser that just happens to be awful for reading articles (Opera Mobile is not available for BlackBerry).

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[arikol]

Missing features? yeah, some have been mildly annoying.

But for the most part, just having phone/handheld computer that you can actually use has just been such a sweet relief that I can't even think about going back to a Nokia, HTC, or (gasp) any Windows Mobile device.

They all have better specs, more "features" but the specs don't get utilized and the features sit unused, because they're just too annoying to use on a daily basis, even for a power user.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[dfghjk]

"And if you compare iPhone browsing experience to that on the desktop (or netbook), it still sucks big time."

And that is a substantially bigger issue with the iPad since it's essentially the same sucky iPhone browsing experience with a larger, less portable screen.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and the best z80 card out there was from Microsoft.
You could actually write software on the z80 side and cross-compile for the Apple II at 8MHz.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was in MS' interest that Apple was viable otherwise there was a monopoly case right there.
Besides, the MacBU has always been very profitable. More profitable than, say, Zune or XBOX.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[dangitman]

HTML5 is awesome, but certainly not ubiquitous.

Actually HTML (any version) sucks. HTML5 is only awesome in comparison to other bad ideas. But HTML gets the job done, despite it being crufty nonsensical crap.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[s73v3r]

Its even more than that; most mobile phones today that can browse the web with any decency don't have Flash either. Android doesn't have it right now.

Flash will probably never truly "die", in that it will be banished from the face of the web, and the place where it was salted so nothing can grow again. Its use on the web will greatly diminish, though, and many of the areas where it was shoehorned in will be replaced by better tools.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the content is not 'flash' formatted (unless it's an FLV, which is stupid anyway), the player is, and it references the content. It's not as difficult a problem to get around as you think - all you need to change is the display method.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Mr Bubble]

"A competitor that basically kept their Mac platform alive with their creative tools. "

You must not have been a Mac user during the last 10 years. Adobe has done everything they could do get people to move to Windows - almost killing the platform. It was the Mac OS that kept creative professionals coming back to the Mac. We could have bought the same Adobe tools on Windows, but realized that you need an ecosystem to work in - not just a cheap, commodity platform created by people who have no taste or creativity. The platform thrived despite Adobe's negligence - not because of it. Rather than design products that played to OS X's strengths, Adobe continues to put out substandard trash and they have the gall to charge us ungodly upgrade fees. I for one am ready to see Adobe fold and get some fresh blood in the creative space.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your opinion doesn't appear to be very humble ... and you're wrong to boot. Go figure.

I have a suggestion: go try to do some research on that of which you have obviously been modded up for some equally ignorant reason.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[blincoln]

The point of Mini is just to have a simple, fast browser that renders text quickly. For reading articles on my BlackBerry I haven't found a better option.

I think that says more about the sad state of RIM's platform than anything in Opera's favour. I mean, it's great that RIM finally figured out how to make tables render more or less correctly (at least in one viewing mode), but they're still light years behind almost every other smartphone vendor.

In turn, the existence of Opera Mini to me is the equivalent of developers throwing up their hands and saying "OK, RIM, we've finally figured out you're never going to provide a usable dev platform for your phones, so we'll write our own browser for someone else's server platform and limit your phones to being used as a remote display and keyboard/trackball for them."

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Culture20]

You must not have been a Mac user during the last 10 years. Adobe has done everything they could do get people to move to Windows - almost killing the platform. It was the Mac OS that kept creative professionals coming back to the Mac.

No, It was the Menuing system on the top of the screen that kept creative professionals coming back to Adobe on the Mac. Take away adobe, and they would have left Mac. Take the menuing system to any other OS, and they would have flocked. I suppose since that menuing system was only on Mac OS, you could say it was "Mac OS" that made them come back, but it was really just one specific feature of the OS. BTW, I know this because I work[ed] with a lot of these creative professionals, and this is what they've told me.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[indiechild]

I like Apple devices and will keep buying them as long as they suit my needs, but I think it's important to point out that Apple *never* has your best interests in mind. Everything they do is catered to their own interests. They don't run focus groups and such. They don't ask the customer what they want.

If anyone here has read "ReWork" by 37signals, Apple is one of those companies that follows most of the tactics that the book describes.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using CP/M to read slashdot now, you insensitive clod!

(if by CP/M you mean a modern graphical OS containing APIs implementing system calls for a previous graphical shell that ran on top of a disk operating system that derived much of it's features from CP/M)

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Mr Bubble]

I'm not sure I understand you. Yes, the menuing system on the top of the screen is a feature that Mac users love. And there are a million more just like that one. WIndows is just not a good place to me for creatives - or for anyone for that matter - but that is a question of personal taste.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"These aren't the missing features you're looking for", Steve Jobs waves his hand.

"Flash is bad! Flash is evil! I block Flash all the time! The iPhone doesn't support Flash? We haveta have Flash! It's stupid that it doesn't support it!", Slashdot nerds hit F5 and check their scores.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[rrohbeck]

Compared to the "OS"s of Apple and Commodore, CP/M was a real disk OS, that's why it was used in business environments. Yes it was crap compared to UNIX, but it ran on cheap 8080s and Z80s, as opposed to expensive 68000s.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[del_diablo]

Well, the major problem is that the iPad got a lot more horsepower than this WePad........
Atom always sucked ballz.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[inpher]

I do not follow your line of reason here. Graceful degradation of an online video player would be like this:

1. Does it accept my standard way of delivering video? Yes: Play it that way. No: Test #2

2. Does it play a degraded way of playing video? Yes: Play it that way. No: repeat #2 until all possibilities have been tried.

In this context a site like Hulu could just test if Flash is installed and deliver the stream though Flash if it is there and fall back to HTML5 if Flash is not present.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Herve5]

seconded. Mobile is very good, tabbed and all

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

And on that hardware WordStar could print in the background

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[nyctopterus]

I wonder if Apple's making Adobe look weak to lower it's share price for a takeover...

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[paulatz]

the iPhone was the best 'internet experience'

I don't "experience" the internet, I use it. On the same line: I experience the wind in the hair, but I use it to push my boat where there are no 3G networks

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[JasterBobaMereel]

Flash does everything?

Well it does Video - Badly, and we don't need it for that anymore

And it does crappy games, slowly and badly, that there is usually a native version of that runs better, faster, etc ....

And it does Adverts ..... Enough said ......

What else (I may be missing something I use flashblock)?

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[JasterBobaMereel]

It did YouTube by playing video by another method ....all other uses of flash were not important enough to bother about

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[English French Man]

Yeah, multitasking a third party instant messaging is soooo hardcore!

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[icebraining]

Those statements are *not* in contradiction. Flash is a necessary evil. I don't like it, and I wish nobody would use it, but they do, and sometimes I actually have to use it.
It's like IE6: no geek liked it, and they all ran Firefox/Opera/Safari/etc, but if you wanted to access your bank, you had to use it.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[icebraining]

But which other phone did?

300 models, in Feb. 2007; http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200702/0212073GSM.html
In the US, Verizon had some phones with it.

My E65 came with Flash Lite, but I've only used it once (I don't browse that much with it, I use it mainly for Calendaring, podcasts and internet radio).

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[hardware1949]

Apple remonds me of the old TRS-80 days when Radio Shack was screaming at the top of their lungs that they had the real deal. A lot of people bought into their logic and they are probably the same ones that are buying Apple today. Well along with there kids and grandkids. CPM was good for it's time and Seattle Computing did not offer much more than what we already had. It's too bad that we will never know what would have happened if Gary Kildall had gotten his foot in the door. Sure as hell couldn't have been any worse that the lot we ended up with. My profuse apologies to Linus Thorvald of course. Did not intend to include him with the current lot, but then he came into the scene much later and with an optimistic view.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It's not the rationale, it's the thoughtless parrot-like behaviour regarding the iPhone.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Americano]

There you go again with your silly logic. It's like this:

• Flash is bad because it's not an open standard.
• Steve Jobs is bad because he makes people buy products they don't want.
• When Steve Jobs says he doesn't like Flash, Flash is good because "people want it."
• In short: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Personally, I can't wait until slashdotters are forced into championing Microsoft solutions based on this premise. When will we start seeing Silverlight & .NET complaints?

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[shutdown -p now]

My Nokia 6300 came with a Flash (Lite) player, too, but it's for running standalone Flash applications, not for web browsing - which was the original context here.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

There you go again with your silly logic... Steve Jobs is bad because he makes people buy products they don't want.

Speaking of funny rationale....

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Many websites are already moving away from Flash for this very reason."

Name several. Hell, name one that has completely.

And you forget to note that most of that "moving away" is really transcoding in the background or on the fly, such as YouTube. YouTube has over 45% market share of the online video serving market, and they are STILL flash. The number of iphone and itouch users surely outnumber the ipad early adopters, yet that wasn't enough to change them.

Of the half million or so ipad users, most sites won't give a damn. Worse, Apple depends on Flash. There was an MIT Tech Review article about how the 3GS up'd YouTube's upload rate 400%. Yet those same uploaders have to depend on transcoding on the fly usually or some app to see those same videos served by the site.

Back to the sites you maybe named, now was it actual content, or ad serving content that forced the change? Not having Flash on the ipad is more like having a good ad blocker.

Of actual content sites, most are video serving sites. They certainly have Flash ads, but their main draw is some other Flash supported video content. Of those, it's the opposite of what you say. We've already seen how YouTube, owned by open standards pushing Google, has faired in this "threat" from the i* devices. These other sites instead aren't converting or changing--they're releasing or are rumored to be releasing Apple app store programs to access their sites content. For example, Hulu has been rumored to be working on this. Crunchyroll had an itouch and now an ipad compatible app in the works.

Neither have migrated their sites to HTML5 or some open source video app.

To the earlier post, your Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded. Guess that says a lot about ipad buyers.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Americano]

You are wrong. It will bring the effective end of Flash as a predominant web standard, for the very simple reason of economics:

As a content provider, you have three choices:
1) Serve your content in accordance with an open standard that will work in any of the "modern" browsers which will only increase their support for HTML5 as time passes.
2) Write 2 versions of your content, once using Flash, and once in an open standard.
3) Stay locked into your proprietary standard and refuse to serve content to any device which won't support it.

Why won't #3 happen? Because the iPhone OS devices represent a huge chunk of the mobile market. What's more, they represent a chunk of the mobile market which has a large amount of disposable income. Who do advertisers want to target, and who do you want coming to your site to support it with adviews & purchases of your product? If Apple is dead-set on NOT supporting Flash, then the proprietary Flash standard becomes increasingly irrelevant.

This leaves businesses with the choice of writing their content once & serving it up in accordance with an open standard, or writing it / encoding it twice. From a dollars-and-cents standpoint, #1 is the most likely for businesses to choose because it doesn't require serving two versions of everything they do - one for HTML5-only viewers, and one for Flash-supporting viewers. This means more staff, more testing, more time - you're spending more money in that scenario, and for what? To help prop up Adobe's Flash business? While I'm sure Adobe would appreciate that, I don't see how that's a compelling business case for anybody who's not Adobe.

Re:The comparison to the Apple II era again...

[Americano]

The same Hulu whose video - since 2008 - has been encoded in H.264? What's more likely:

-- Hulu finds a way to serve H.264 content via HTML5 to mobile devices that support it, just like youtube is doing (in beta form) today?
-- OR --
-- Hulu says "Sorry, since Apple won't let Flash run on the iPad and iPhone, you guys can go fuck yourselves"?

Hulu does not heart Adobe. Youtube does not heart Adobe. The Flash Player was a way for them to accomplish their goal: making money off of serving video interspersed with advertisements. A new technology is poised to do the same thing, and allow them to write to an open standard that should work across multiple platforms. Which do you think they'll choose as a long-term strategy?

The shoulders of giants

[BadAnalogyGuy]

We always talk about how Newton is the father of modern physics, and we describe planetary motion as derived from Kepler. However it is important that we not forget the man who paved the way for all these heliocentric concepts. Copernicus risked personal safety by advocating a heliocentric theory of the universe (he didn't grasp that perhaps Sol wasn't the center of everything). He broke us away from epicycles and complicated conceptual constructs to show us a simple and elegant model of planetary motion.

Science has come a long way since then, but this was the first true seed of modern physics.

So too can we look back on Apple's simple iPhone as the genesis of all future handheld devices. From the form-factor to the necessary features, the iPhone provided a framework upon which others can improve and expand.

Now with the iPad, Apple pushes the limits even more. However, like all true pioneers, they are left in the dust by prospectors in the ensuing goldrush. Apple will continue to go their own way, but the monied investors are looking for the next big thing. Luckily for Apple, the customers are looking for the next best thing.

Even if it doesn't support Flash.

Re:The shoulders of giants

[Anonymous Coward]

God I fucking hate you

Re:The shoulders of giants

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is nice and poetic if it weren't for the fact that Apple says "get the hell off my shoulders."

Re:The shoulders of giants

[nomadic]

Copernicus risked personal safety by advocating a heliocentric theory of the universe

From who? Powerful churchmen like....Copernicus?

Re:The shoulders of giants

[Nadaka]

What? The IPad is hardly novel. Tablet computers have existed for a decade or more. Hell, my 5 year old laptop (and it wasn't even top of the line when I bought it) with a nearly dead battery had a flip around touch screen that worked in tablet mode.

Re:The shoulders of giants

[Anonymous Coward]

You have got to be fucking kidding. Apple makes devices with functional and attractive user interfaces, and they have managed to make a lot of money doing this. How can you possibly think this makes them in any way comparable to Newton, Kepler, or Copernicus? I find it downright offensive that there are people among the slashdot crowd who could make such a comparison with a straight face.

Re:The shoulders of giants

[Bert64]

Apple don't really innovate, they take existing ideas and implement and market them well...
Your 5 year old laptop probably ran software designed for use with a mouse and keyboard, and which wasn't terribly usable with the touchscreen. It was also probably quite thick, heavy and noisy compared to an ipad...

The apple app store is basically a copy of the package management system in linux too...

Re:The shoulders of giants

[AlXtreme]

From who? Powerful churchmen like....Copernicus?

He misspelled Galileo. What would you expect from BadAnalogyGuy?

Re:The shoulders of giants

[dskzero]

Luckily for Apple, the customers are looking for the next best thing.

Even if it doesn't support Flash.

Heaver forbid the world might produce something objetively better than the iPad. Newton and Copernicus will have to rise from their graves to rewrite the whole understanding of the world.

Re:The shoulders of giants

[HiThere]

He may, or may not, have been a sufficiently powerful churchman to be safe. What he *did* do, however, is publish posthumously. This effectively minimized his risk.

Much faster clone time

[jimmyhat3939]

Obviously competitors have realized that it's worth it to come out with clone or me-too products much faster than they did in the past with the iPhone. This suggests to me that they'll be at least somewhat more successful than before in taking market share from apple.

Re:Much faster clone time

[belmolis]

It sounds like this has been in development for some time, so I wonder if it is really a "me too" product. It doesn't look like a clone.

Re:Much faster clone time

[jimmyhat3939]

Sure, but people have been speculating about the iPad for at least a year and a half.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Altus]

They might be somewhat more successful but there is more too making a me too product than getting it out the door quickly. You need to get it in front of customers who are currently considering buying an iPad and that is not an easy thing to do. Right now everyone knows about the iPad, not just geeks here on slashdot. In 6 months, how many people outside of geeks on slashdot will know about the WePad.

It could be a vastly superior unit but it wont matter if most people don't know about it.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

That must be it.

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that people have been working on the tablet PC since the 90's

If the iPad had all the features of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadem_Clio bad boy I might give it a look.

Re:Much faster clone time

[ClosedSource]

So Apple gets creative credit for the ideas of speculators? Too bad Apple wasn't listening more carefully - they'd have a better product.

Re:Much faster clone time

[ClosedSource]

What I've read is that the WePad will roll-out in Germany before the iPad does. If your theory is true, I guess the iPad is doomed in Germany.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Altus]

Excellent reading skills. I didn't say that getting out first was key. I said that getting your product in front of the people who want to buy it is key.

Right now, even if it is unavailable in Germany, I bet a majority of Germans know what an iPad is, its all over the news.

Now maybe the WePad will be launched with huge fanfare and a parade in Berlin, I don't know, but if most people know what an iPad is but don't know what a WePad is then the WePad will not be as successful as the iPad and that's all there is to it.

Re:Much faster clone time

[HarrySquatter]

Yeah their product was so "horrible" that it sold 300,000 units in 1 day. Care to name a single tablet that's equaled that in sales for the first day?

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

And this will open them up to being sued for patent infringement much sooner, because cheap imitators can't afford real innovation or real IP protection.

(And yes, I realized I'm doomed to be modded -1 Troll because /. doesn't believe in IP. But it's still the business reality on the ground.)

Re:Much faster clone time

[Mike Buddha]

They didn't sell 300,000 units in one day. They sold 300,000 units over 4 months of hype and advertisment articles on gadget blogs. Care to speculate what the second day sales were?

Re:Much faster clone time

[HarrySquatter]

By April 7th or 8th they had slightly over 600,000 units sold. Once again, care to name a single tablet that has even sold remotely as many units in such a short period as the iPad? I'm guessing neither you nor ClosedSource will be able to so I won't hold my breath.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not much, but it's getting a lot more media than i expected. I saw a small article about it in my local paper this morning.

Re:Much faster clone time

[centuren]

Obviously competitors have realized that it's worth it to come out with clone or me-too products much faster than they did in the past with the iPhone. This suggests to me that they'll be at least somewhat more successful than before in taking market share from apple.

The problem I see is that every new clone announced is heavier than the iPad. People may not adjust to 1.5 lbs, but adding to that does not spell success.

Re:Much faster clone time

[slart42]

Obviously competitors have realized that it's worth it to come out with clone or me-too products much faster than they did in the past with the iPhone. This suggests to me that they'll be at least somewhat more successful than before in taking market share from apple.

Just that the makers of the WePad don't actually seem to be as far as they claim to be. I know someone who was at the press conference were they showed the product yesterday. He said that current versions run windows, not Linux, the touch screen didn't work on the "show" device, and it had a fan which was running all the time. In it's current state it would not have a chance to compete well with the iPad (and I personally doubt it ever will).

Re:Much faster clone time

[Yvan256]

People still don't get it, however. The WePad thinks it can compete with the iPad with hardware features but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS. Apple didn't use their desktop version of Mac OS X on the iPhone, the iPod touch and the iPad for a good reason: portable, touch devices need customized interfaces otherwise it just sucks. I tried using a Blackberry and was shocked to see the tiny cursor that I had to control with a tiny trackball.... Seriously, WTF?

Re:Much faster clone time

[BasilBrush]

If the iPad had all the features of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadem_Clio bad boy I might give it a look.

And yet the iPad outsold the entire lifetime sales of that "bad boy" on it's very first day.

Re:Much faster clone time

[onefriedrice]

So Apple gets creative credit for the ideas of speculators? Too bad Apple wasn't listening more carefully - they'd have a better product.

The ironic thing is Apple is listening... to their actual target market. You know, regular people. People who don't care about "free" software ideals or DRM. Have you considered that perhaps the reason they didn't listen to you is because they are not and never will target people like you (a tiny minority of geeks) with a product like the iPad? You may not like the iPad (I certainly don't), but I realize they're not trying to cater to me. I also realize that the group of people they are trying to cater to is huge, so they will probably be quite successful.

As far as giving Apple credit, whether or not they invented the tablet or touch interfaces or wireless or anything like that is irrelevant. What they do is aim to get the tiniest details right; they really know their customers and make products to match them as perfectly as possible. There is no need to waste a single ounce of brain processing time worrying about how much credit Apple should take for the iPad or anything else they make. The whole industry builds off each participant, and they all try to make products to meet the needs and wants of the markets they're good at targeting. It's not any more complicated than that.

Re:Much faster clone time

[B1oodAnge1]

care to name a single tablet that has even sold remotely as many units in such a short period

While you are waiting, why don't you name a single tablet that has received an entire quarter of hype and media adoration leading up to its release?

Re:Much faster clone time

[VValdo]

The WePad thinks it can compete with the iPad with hardware features but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS. Apple didn't use their desktop version of Mac OS X on the iPhone, the iPod touch and the iPad for a good reason: portable, touch devices need customized interfaces otherwise it just sucks.

The WePad will use a "Linux-based" OS, namely Android, which has an interface perfect for a tablet.

W

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever modded you insightful seems to be as clueless as you are.

The WePad thinks it can compete with the iPad with hardware features but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS.Apple didn't use their desktop version of Mac OS X on the iPhone, the iPod touch and the iPad for a good reason: portable, touch devices need customized interfaces otherwise it just sucks.

Nope. Linux is the kernel. Even in the most general sense, 'Linux' is not a GUI. Case in point, Palm's WebOS ,Google's Android and Nokia's Maemo.

I tried using a Blackberry and was shocked to see the tiny cursor that I had to control with a tiny trackball.... Seriously, WTF?

How's that connected to anything? oh, right, your mistaken idea that Linux == Linux's desktop GUI. Damn, somebody should sue the vendors of all those Android handsets for shipping incomplete software - someone forgot to ship the bloody cursor on those Linuxes!!!

FYI, there have been Linux tablets demoed at CES and they usually were set up with Android. Now, that's not a very good choice (yet) but then again, iPhoneOS 2.0 wouldn't have been a very good choice for the iPad either. Things evolve, you know, and usually they do rather faster outside Apple's walled garden.

Re:Much faster clone time

[moronoxyd]

Yeah, because we all know that numbers sold stand in direct correlation to quality...

(Just to be sure, let me point out that Windows sells a lot more units than Mac OS. Do the math.)

Re:Much faster clone time

[moronoxyd]

What they do is aim to get the tiniest details right; they really know their customers and make products to match them as perfectly as possible.

That's why it took them several versions of their iPhone OS until they added copy & paste or multitasking for third parties, right?

Re:Much faster clone time

[Yvanhoe]

Or simply, every tablet PC manufacturer now compares his to an iPad. That concept isn't that really new you know...

Re:Much faster clone time

[HarrySquatter]

While you are waiting, why don't you name a single tablet that has received an entire quarter of hype and media adoration leading up to its release?

So is that an admission that you can't name a single tablet that has sold as well as the iPad? All you had to do was say you couldn't do so and saved yourself more than half the keystrokes.

Re:Much faster clone time

[ClosedSource]

"Have you considered that perhaps the reason they didn't listen to you is because they are not and never will target people like you (a tiny minority of geeks) with a product like the iPad?"

What "tiny minority of geeks" do you think I'm part of? Go back and read my comment in context and you'll see that your comment really doesn't address mine.

Re:Much faster clone time

[ClosedSource]

Strawmanning and changing the subject are we? I never said the iPad was "horrible" and even if Apple sold a billion units in the 1st day, it wouldn't negate my argument.

Re:Much faster clone time

[mosb1000]

You may want to consider the software development cycle in you thoughts on the subject. Apple thinks it's better not to include features that aren't yet ready for prime time and risk getting flak from people like yourself. Other companies tend to shove every feature into the release they can think of whether it's ready or not. Apple's approach is why they consistently have a better user experience.

Re:Much faster clone time

[bdenton42]

Mr. Jobs disagrees with you, not that 450K is anything to sneeze at. http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/08/news/companies/apple_ipad_sales/

Re:Much faster clone time

[HarrySquatter]

Other sources that I found said around 600,000. I have no problem admitting that PC World could have been wrong.

Re:Much faster clone time

[BasilBrush]

Yeah, because we all know that numbers sold stand in direct correlation to quality...
(Just to be sure, let me point out that Windows sells a lot more units than Mac OS. Do the math.)

My point is not that the iPad sold a lot, but that the Clio was a complete failure. By contrast both Windows and Mac OS are successful products. What the OP wants, virtually no one else does.

Re:Much faster clone time

[FiveDozenWhales]

You... understand that Linux is just a kernel, right? And that the interface on a Linux-running device has little to nothing to do with the kernel itself? The WePad page says that it's built on Android. If you've ever used Android, you know that it's very much an interface designed for a mobile device, and that it has next to nothing in common with GNOME, KDE, or any other Linux-based user interface. Heck, unless you were curious or technically inlined, you'd never know your Android device was running Linux.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked Linux was a kernel and not an OS, and certainly not a GUI. Also, while the iPad doesn't use OS X, it does use the Darwin kernel. It also appears they did come up with their own interface and at least customized an OS for it. I don't see a difference, not at least one that you pointed out.

Re:Much faster clone time

[ClosedSource]

"Apple thinks it's better not to include features that aren't yet ready for prime time..."

As Dr. Phil would say "that dog won't hunt". Apple has been doing copy/paste and multitasking for years, they could do it with their eyes closed.

No, the real reason is the Steve thinks he knows best so the first version is a full reflection of his "vision". Later, if customers demand features that aren't part of his vision, he'll have the opportunity to present them with great fanfare as if that was the plan all along.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux... which is a server or desktop OS.

Eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Uses

Due to its low cost and ability to be easily modified, an embedded Linux is often used in embedded systems. Linux has become a major competitor to Symbian OS which is used in the majority of smartphones—16.7% of smartphones sold worldwide during 2006 were using Linux[68]—and it is an alternative to the proprietary Windows CE and Palm OS operating systems on mobile devices.

Re:Much faster clone time

[thesandtiger]

Is it going to be multi-touch capable and actually responsive, rather than barely touch aware and laggy?

I have yet to see a piece of hardware running android that doesn't feel slow to the point of non-response or that is just as comfortable to use as the UI on my iPhone. Anyone recommend a device running android that doesn't feel like a sluggish piece of poop?

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is not just server or desktop.. Linux is very much used in the portable and embedded devices. You'll find it in very niche products like bat detectors and medical test gear, through to your standard consumer devices like HDTVs, DVRs, and media players from the likes of netgear and popcorn hour. Perhaps you've heard of routers too? Guess what they're running? Furthermore, it has been in use in portable pads and phones for a long time. There was tech life before apple eventually join the bandwagon.

You obviously can't tell the difference between a kernel and whatever GUI is running on top. Yup, you're a Job's cult dweeb.

Re:Much faster clone time

[GreyLurk]

Wait, Linux only works on servers and desktops? Shit, now I've got to return all my linux based WiFi routers, Android phones, Nook e-book readers, and Cisco networking appliances.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's as good as the Android phones then it'll be inferior to the iPad (and yes, I've got access to an Android based phone and an iPhone to compare them.)

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

If Linux is just a server or desktop OS, why is it in satellites? Sat Navs? Routers, TVs, Set-Top Boxes?
Linux itself is incredibly useful in many, many situations. It certainly isn't restricted to being a Desktop or Server OS.
Windows and Mac OS, however: they certainly are.

Re:Much faster clone time

[blair1q]

Tablet computing has been around for a long time.

And the exact form factor, and almost its exact name, were being discussed long ago:

"PAD" Computer
redfoxtx 06-10-2002, 01:56 PM
http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-1793-PAD-Computer.html

Steve Jobs seems to think he invented it, and the idea of calling a tablet a "pad".

Steve Jobs: 'Pad? That's my word'
New frontiers in control freakiness
Rik Myslewski in San Francisco
Posted in Mobile, 13th April 2010 20:11 GMT
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/13/jobs_claims_pad_trademark/

At some point, someone needs to stand up to this lunatic.

Re:Much faster clone time

[sjames]

As long as the idea of the tablet computer has been around (ever since yeoman Rand brought them to the bridge for captain Kirk to sign), they're all clones really. They've just been waiting for technology to catch up with what was needed to get the things to actually work. This isn't even the first time someone has built one, it's just that previous attempts failed due to technology not really being there yet.

What this suggests to me is that the technology has improved enough to make them really practical for some applications now, so we'll see several of them. Further improvements to technology will bring more.

Re:Much faster clone time

[iluvcapra]

Apparently having competent public relations is cheating -- or something. You act as if Apple was putting a gun to the heads of the Gizmodo editors.

Re:Much faster clone time

[mutantSushi]

The ironic thing is Apple is listening... to their actual target market. You know, regular people.

The people buying apps created in MonoTouch, Scheme, with Lua or Ruby interepreters? I mean, if there is no demand for something, there is no reason to ban it, right?

Re:Much faster clone time

[Facegarden]

Is it going to be multi-touch capable and actually responsive, rather than barely touch aware and laggy?

I have yet to see a piece of hardware running android that doesn't feel slow to the point of non-response or that is just as comfortable to use as the UI on my iPhone. Anyone recommend a device running android that doesn't feel like a sluggish piece of poop?

The Nexus One. It seriously is fast as hell and i have a crapload of apps installed. Like, i was blown away the other day when i realized how many apps I have and how that has had *no* effect on the operation of the phone.

I did windows mobile for years (reboot twice a day), then the iphone 1g (reboot once a week maybe? I forget), and then the tmobile G1 (reboot twice a week maybe, but it was just generally underpowered). I got the N1 recently and it just blows me away how fast and stable it is. The 1GHz processor really makes a difference, and I can multitask all I want without having to ever use a task manager. Its also nice to have what i consider an excellent camera as far as a mobile phone goes. Low light with the flash is great and it is better than any device I've ever had (which is mostly HTC, they never put a big priority on cameras before). Also, the camera takes ~1/2 second to start up. THAT is nice!

There are some oddities - about once a week data stops working, but a reboot always fixes it, and honestly that could be AT&T for all their crapiness, I'm not sure.

But it is always snappy, and i couldn't be happier with the phone - it is literally the phone i have always been looking for.
-Taylor

Re:Much faster clone time

[blincoln]

Steve Jobs seems to think he invented it, and the idea of calling a tablet a "pad".

Are tablets not roughly the same size as the "PADD" devices that were used in Star Trek, starting with The Next Generation in the late 80s? I thought that's where the modern term had originated (or if not there, than wherever the Star Trek designers picked it up). The usage model is certainly extremely similar.

I wondered for a moment if the GRiDpad had preceeded the Star Trek props, but those seem to have been released in the 90s. Still well before Steve Jobs appropriated the term, of course (assuming The Register isn't completely fabricating that story).

Re:Much faster clone time

[flibbidyfloo]

They won't be successful if they cost $100 more for a "similar" model (similar in the public's mind). It's like when the iPod blew up and suddenly all these nice competitors came out at the same price and no one bought them. You can't beat Apple at the design and marketing game. You have to beat them on features AND price.

Re:Much faster clone time

[dudpixel]

No, the point is that Apple achieve their great sales through both excellent marketing (including building hype) AND a good product, whilst most others focus too heavily on the product and not on the marketing.

Sales can be directly attributed to marketing, whilst its difficult to gauge the quality of the product purely on sales numbers. To do that you need to look at reviews, support, opinions, all of which happen AFTER the product is sold.

What you're witnessing with Apple, is ingenious marketing that no other company has achieved. Thats why its difficult to name other products - its not (much) about the product, its about marketing.

Have I mentioned the word "marketing" enough?

Have a look at how Apple goes about releasing a product. They follow a very carefully planned and meticulous process. And it works in every case - to the point where they now have a large following, many of who will buy any product they release now regardless of what it is.

Re:Much faster clone time

[dudpixel]

Most of the early Android devices were underpowered compared to Apple devices - which is why you would see them as unresponsive etc...

Actually, all of the things you mentioned have more to do with hardware than software - because all reviews of the Nexus One have been favourable in exactly the areas you mentioned. And surprise, it features similar hardware specs to Apple's products.

Both OS's are great - lets not get carried away thinking Apple is untouchable...(see what i did there?)

Re:Much faster clone time

[iluvcapra]

Are you saying that there is tradeoff between marketing and quality, and that they're essentially zero-sum?

Aside from the success of a product in the open market, are you suggesting that there should be some sort of separate, virtuous way of evaluating its quality? Something more morally/politicaly favorable to your personal preference, perhaps?

Re:Much faster clone time

[pydev]

but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS

Linux is a kernel. And it's widely used on embedded devices. Linux has been tuned far more for embedded devices than iPhone OS.

Apple didn't use their desktop version of Mac OS X on the iPhone, the iPod touch and the iPad for a good reason: portable, touch devices need customized interfaces otherwise it just sucks

And that's why WePad uses a customized interface: Android.

I tried using a Blackberry and was shocked to see the tiny cursor that I had to control with a tiny trackball.... Seriously, WTF?

Laugh if you like, but those interfaces work pretty well on non-touchscreen devices. And many people like non-touchscreen devices for messaging phones.

Re:Much faster clone time

[pydev]

Is it going to be multi-touch capable

I don't see why not. Android supports it in places where Apple hasn't grabbed iffy patents.

and actually responsive, rather than barely touch aware and laggy?

Bullshit. Android devices are responsive and use touch extensively. Like iPhone and iPad, they're improving every generation.

Try some of the software turds running on iPad and you'll see that Apple developers don't walk on water either.

Re:Much faster clone time

[dudpixel]

No. See my first paragraph - you need a competant product to be successful, but by no means the best product.

Quality is determined by (unbiased) reviews and by using the product yourself. Apple does do well in this regard, but the difference compared to other products is not as great as the sales figures suggest.

Sales is mostly directly connected to marketing, whatever form that takes.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Kitkoan]

Obviously competitors have realized that it's worth it to come out with clone or me-too products much faster than they did in the past with the iPhone. This suggests to me that they'll be at least somewhat more successful than before in taking market share from apple.

I don't think it's as much of 'taking market share from Apple' and more of riding Apple's marketing campaign. The tablet market has been there for years but with little to no advertising. Now suddenly there is lots of advertising for the tablet market courtesy of Apple and this has made it a more hot business sector at the moment. Similar to a fad but one that can and might likely evolve.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Kitkoan]

People still don't get it, however. The WePad thinks it can compete with the iPad with hardware features but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS. Apple didn't use their desktop version of Mac OS X on the iPhone, the iPod touch and the iPad for a good reason: portable, touch devices need customized interfaces otherwise it just sucks.

To start with, FTA:

The WePad, with its 11.6-inch screen, is powered by an Intel chip and relies on a Linux software basis which is compatible with Google's Android and all Flash applications

That means its using Linux as a basis, not the full blown OS. Kinda like how things like iPhone and iPad are running the iPhone OS, which is a mod of the OSX which just happens to be a desktop OS.

Re:Much faster clone time

[broken_chaos]

How's the battery life, out of curiosity?

I'm using a Blackberry 9700 right now and it's reasonably responsive (though I don't make heavy use of complex applications), but the battery lasts forever and I essentially never have to reboot it or anything (except for large software updates).

Re:Much faster clone time

[iluvcapra]

Quality is determined by (unbiased) reviews and by using the product yourself. Apple does do well in this regard, but the difference compared to other products is not as great as the sales figures suggest.

How on earth do you quantify this to the extent to prove that there's a disparity? I think you're resting on a deeply flawed premise, namely, that there's an objective standard of quality independent of the individual buying decision. Do you have some sort of model that can map the (unbiased) reviews of a product to a price?

I mean, what gives some reviewer the superior knowledge necessary to make pronouncements on the quality of a product? So much for the bazaar... Of course, Linux fanboys always keep the strawman of the "stupid kool-aid drinking MS/Apple fanboy" close by, to shame and ridicule those who don't meet their ideological and moral standards.

Re:Much faster clone time

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Yeah, because we all know that numbers sold stand in direct correlation to quality..

When you're marketing a software platform the number of people that adopt it is an aspect of it's 'quality'.

(Just to be sure, let me point out that Windows sells a lot more units than Mac OS. Do the math.)

See above.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Belial6]

Now that you mention it, I better pull my TV off the wall, since it must not be functioning either.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Facegarden]

How's the battery life, out of curiosity?

I'm using a Blackberry 9700 right now and it's reasonably responsive (though I don't make heavy use of complex applications), but the battery lasts forever and I essentially never have to reboot it or anything (except for large software updates).

Pretty good. I keep it on full brightness and browse the web a lot, and it lasts all day. I've been a heavy smartphone user for years though so I consider anything that lasts till i go to bed to be good. It doesn't ever go critical on me though even with all that use. I abuse it too, keeping it at full brightness and leaving all the wireless on. I could lower the brightness and turn off wifi/bluetooth when not in use though (easy with the power widget on the homescreen) and it would probably last a day and a half. I just bought a bunch of micro USB cables from monoprice for $1.30 or so each with like $5 shipping, so I just surrounded myself with them. Some at home, some at work, one in my car. I can charge it whenever I need. Though i don't actually ever need to charge it more than at night, those are just in case.

I just don't care though, I'm used to one day max from other phones though, so I haven't paid much attention. So I might not be the best person to ask.

It really is the best phone I've ever had though.
-Taylor

Re:Much faster clone time

[xlotlu]

People still don't get it, however. The WePad thinks it can compete with the iPad with hardware features but will run Linux... which is a server or desktop OS.

You mean Linux... which is a server, or supercomputer, or desktop, or laptop, or netbook, router, TV, camera, handheld, media player, embedded device, [...] OS.

A very long time ago it was a server OS. Now it can be tailored for everything, and it is everywhere. Except on toasters I guess, those are BSDs.

Don't confuse the kernel with the graphics / widget libraries. Which by the way are cheerfully getting to that level of adaptability as well.

Re:Much faster clone time

[LS]

They didn't put a gun to their heads, they put money in their hands.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

Only because all those who bought it love to suck on Steve Jobs' balls.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Facegarden]

How's the battery life, out of curiosity?

I'm using a Blackberry 9700 right now and it's reasonably responsive (though I don't make heavy use of complex applications), but the battery lasts forever and I essentially never have to reboot it or anything (except for large software updates).

And actually, after posting that last night, I realized that i still had more than 50% battery around 1AM. So maybe its better than i thought!

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

You too. Nyah.

Re:Much faster clone time

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't believe that anyone is seriously trying to argue that opening week sales of any product are in any way related to the quality / utility / long term impact of that product. That's like predicting that 20 years from now, we'll be looking back at "Twilight: New Moon" as a great movie upon which all great cinema of the 21st century has been based because it sold $143M in it's opening week. The iPad may be revolutionary. The iPad may be the best internet browsing platform ever devised. It may be the irresistible force that saves us all from Flash. It may be the best salsa maker your money can buy. But I think those things aren't necessarily related to opening week sales. Opening week sales were driven by the undeniable success of the iPhone and excellent marketing by Apple. If the iPad is half as good as Apple's marketing department has led everyone to believe, then 6 months from now, everyone who didn't already get one will be on a waiting list to get one. Really, if it's even half as good as the iPhone, it will be a resounding success. But let's face it, when most of the opening week customers took possession of their new iPads, they knew only that it was a) like an iPhone, but bigger; b) multi-touch; and most importantly c) made by Apple. It could have been a complete piece of junk and it would have sold that many. "I'd buy a toilet if they made it," (Cuyler Binion, customer lined up at Apple store in San Francisco to buy an iPad.) Those pre-order and first day buyers didn't really know whether it was a revolutionary product that would change the market - and really, neither do we. But we'll know soon.

Re:Much faster clone time

[dudpixel]

I see what you're saying.

But I think you misunderstood. I'm not trying to come up with a quantifiable definition for quality. Rather I'm saying that the link between quality and sales numbers is not as strong as many think.

Obviously you need a product that is "good enough" but from there its all marketing. You do not need to be "best in class" to achieve the highest sales.

I do see a direct correlation between marketing and sales. I do not see a direct connection between quality and sales (in most cases - there will always be exceptions).

Re:Much faster clone time

[Haiyadragon]

The HTC Desire:
http://www.htc.com/nl/product/desire/overview.html

It's fast as hell, has a good (looking) multi-touch interface and is cheaper than the Nexus One. Battery life is the only issue I can think of but that's a problem with all similar devices. And I can also confirm that Flash does indeed suck the life out of the battery and Apple was right to exclude it.

Just stop it

[pieisgood]

You don't need to create a device to compete with the ipad. The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where.

Re:Just stop it

[Fahrvergnuugen]

The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where

I hope you didn't bet money on that...

Re:Just stop it

[sjonke]

Except that the iPad won't fade away. Other then that, spot on - they absolutely are wasting their time with this ludicrous attempt at a competitor. OpenOffice? You've got to be kidding me. That just screams finger-based-input-small-tablet software right there. People are going to love fighting with that. I mean the ones who hate themselves.

Re:Just stop it

[Graff]

The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where.

Yes, selling 300,000 units on the first day is a sure sign that the iPad will fade into obscurity any time soon.

Like it or not, the iPad is relevant. It obviously has a following and there will be devices that can imitate it and ride its coattails a bit. Perhaps these other devices can even improve on the design and become relevant in and of themselves. One thing is for certain, you completely ignore a popular device/platform at your own peril.

Re:Just stop it

[jo_ham]

No Wireless, less space than a Nomad. Lame.

I wouldn't bet against the iPad just yet. You just never know.

(disclaimer: I have no idea how well it will sell, or whether it will flop or be huge).

Re:Just stop it

[0100010001010011]

"Less Space than a Nomad. No wireless. Lame."

"No they didn't, the big difference between iPhone and OpenMoko is that OpenMoko is completely open, so anyone can extend it, while iPhone is closed and only licensed parties can write extensions. This is what uniqe about OpenMoko. Apple added glitter to iPhone, but there are other smart phones (maybe not as good, but I can't judge, it's a long wait till iPhone will be available in Europe) so nothing revolutionary about it. OpenMoko has philosophical feature - openess. So as a geek I know which one is the winner here :)"

How's that OpenMoko doing today?
How about those iPod killers?

Re:Just stop it

[Lumpy]

Yup just like how the iPod and iPhone are utter failures.

They barely sold any iPads... Geesh, only 700,000 of them sold first day. What posers, almost nobody bought them.... nobody wants these things. Look they are selling for almost nothing on ebay already....

This sarcasm brought to you by the Letter T.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

"you completely ignore a popular device/platform at your own peril."

But not flash tho... Ignoring that is still cool right?

Re:Just stop it

[Altus]

(disclaimer: I have no idea how well it will sell, or whether it will flop or be huge).

You don't? You must be the only person on this website that doesn't know how well and or poorly the iPad will sell. Why don't you have the information that everyone else here seems to have mystically acquired?

Re:Just stop it

[HarrySquatter]

The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where.

Just like the iPod and iPhone were supposed to do, right? Good thing no one of any import listens to the predictions of slashtards.

Re:Just stop it

[uprise78]

True that. I'll bet dollars to donuts the WePad doesn't get 120,000 pre orders in it's first day and 550,000 sales in it's first week. In fact, if it does I'll eat my first born child and buy 2 for every slashdotter.

Re:Just stop it

[fracai]

Maybe the WePad will include a USB port so you can attach that 18 button OpenOffice mouse.

Re:Just stop it

[Hurricane78]

Except that the iPad won't fade away.

Except that it will fade away! Doubly so!

See, I used just as many arguments to base my statement on, than you did. But I doubled it, and added exclamation marks. So I must be “moar rightxorz!!1!one” :D

And now an argument:
- The reason that touchpads are pointless, is that the range from laptops over smartbooks to mobile phones, does the same, but has a keyboard, and other goodies. Comparatively, touchpads are an inconvenience that only makes sense, if there is so little space that you haven’t got place for separate input and output devices.
- The iPad has a higher price than its competition. Even as those keyboard-having devices.
- If it weren’t for Apple’s viral reality distortion marketing bubble, nobody would care more for the iPad, than for the Zune, the Edsel or MS Bob.
- People, with time, and under financial pressure, usually are forced out of expensive reality distortions.

Which means that there will be niche areas where touchspads can be useful. But the space for the iPad will go away with its hype.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

Oddly, the vast majority of the (millions) people who have bought iPhones don't appear to give a shit if there's no flash on them.

And sites that are heavily flash based on desktop PCs have started providing non-flash based mobile sites, specifically because of the iPhone and other devices which don't have flash.

Flash isn't popular, it's just common. Rarely, there's something that uses flash that's cool (some data visualizations I've seen), and there's the Facebook games. Mostly, it's irritating as fuck. There's those goddamn Flash ads, which blink and take over the fucking screen and play audio when you load a page. Or webpages for companies that are nothing but Flash that looks pretty and tells you nothing and is a general pain in the fucking balls to use.

Write a native app, or learn to use the built in tools in html5 browsers (you could totally write farmville in the browser without flash).

Re:Just stop it

[Jack9]

The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where

I hope you didn't bet money on that...

I did. I'm winning by keeping my money.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

selling 300,000 units on the first day

After 6 months of solid unrelenting hype on TV, radio, blogs, with endless lines of pundits and celebrities proclaiming it the second coming of Christ, that's not a particularly impressive number. And now, of course, comes the let down and the growing chorus of people returning their iPads. Oh, and it is interesting to note that the eee PC, which got NO hype before it was released, sold about 4 million units in its first few months too.

Re:Just stop it

[sjonke]

This notion that people are simply being fooled into buying Apples devices is interesting, but doesn't quite jibe with the customer satisfaction level of the iPhone, for example. The iPad we don't have the data for yet, but when it comes to the iPhone, the idea that people buying them have just been fooled by good marketing... that is the only reality distortion field in effect here. Meanwhile, all those iPhone users, you know the ones that have been fooled by marketing, they are all thinking... iPhone's great, entirely touch-based interface but with a bigger screen that doesn't require so much zooming in and out? Who let the dogs out?

Re:Just stop it

[sjonke]

And a keyboard, monitor and desk lock!

Re:Just stop it

[Genevish]

1. Although Apple has done a good job of marketing the iPad, I'm not sure why so many people don't realize YOU CAN USE A PHYSICAL KEYBOARD WITH IT. I was using my wireless keyboard with it last night and it works great.
2. You seem to think that the Zune, Edsel and MS Bob were also well designed products, but they weren't (well, OK, the Edsel was fine, but poorly marketed).

Everyone asks, "But what can it do?" I ask, "What can't it do?" Yes, it can't play Flash, but I only miss that for Hulu, and they are reportedly working on an HTML5 solution. And there are a few other things it can't do, but for most everything I do at home, it works great. And for the few things it can't do, I have two other computers at home. Don't buy an iPad if you don't want. Time will tell if it will fade away, but you can place me firmly in the "no it won't" camp...

Re:Just stop it

[BasilBrush]

And now an argument:
- The reason that touchpads are pointless, is that the range from laptops over smartbooks to mobile phones, does the same, but has a keyboard, and other goodies. Comparatively, touchpads are an inconvenience that only makes sense, if there is so little space that you haven't got place for separate input and output devices.
- The iPad has a higher price than its competition. Even as those keyboard-having devices.
- If it weren't for Apple's viral reality distortion marketing bubble, nobody would care more for the iPad, than for the Zune, the Edsel or MS Bob.
- People, with time, and under financial pressure, usually are forced out of expensive reality distortions.

Which means that there will be niche areas where touchspads can be useful. But the space for the iPad will go away with its hype.

My bet is that you were posting on the internet that the iPod and the iPhone were going to failures too. Round about the time of their respective launches.

Re:Just stop it

[buback]

I'm not going to refute your numbers, because that's what apple themselves said. However, you should note that those numbers also include "sales" to retailers like Best Buy.

No doubt they sold tons of iPads, but there weren't 300,000 in the hands of customers on day one.

Re:Just stop it

[H0p313ss]

"No they didn't, the big difference between iPhone and OpenMoko is that OpenMoko is completely open, so anyone can extend it, while iPhone is closed and only licensed parties can write extensions. This is what uniqe about OpenMoko. Apple added glitter to iPhone, but there are other smart phones (maybe not as good, but I can't judge, it's a long wait till iPhone will be available in Europe) so nothing revolutionary about it. OpenMoko has philosophical feature - openess. So as a geek I know which one is the winner here :)"

How's that OpenMoko doing today? How about those iPod killers?

Well they forgot to mention other difference between the iPhone and the (OpenMoko) Neo. The iPhone worked out of the box while the Neo shipped with hardware bugs and even a year later the best OS for it made the Apple ][ look stable.

In order to be an Apple killer it must work BETTER than the Apple. You have to be able to show your WORKING gadget to a potential Apple customer and make them want yours more.

Disclaimer I actually used a Neo as my phone for six months. Very cool geek toy, worst cellphone ever.

Re:Just stop it

[silverglade00]

No thanks... I don't want 2 children. Too messy.

Re:Just stop it

[uprise78]

I didnt mean buy 2 children. lol. 2 WePads for everyone!

Re:Just stop it

[prockcore]

Yes, selling 300,000 units on the first day is a sure sign that the iPad will fade into obscurity any time soon.

With Apple products, that's not really indicative of success.

Within the first week of presales in January 2007, Apple TV was the top selling item at the Apple Store.

3 years later, AppleTV is a niche market that Apple has all but abandoned.

Re:Just stop it

[rreay]

It was a tough choice between modding this funny and replying to explain the joke. 5 of the first 10 links are to the same crappy article from a guy who didn't want it in the first place, 1 is a guy who's returning his for an upgrade to more storage and 3g and the rest aren't relevant, including an apple support page.

Pretty big chorus there guy.

Re:Just stop it

[wondafucka]

The ipad will fade into obscurity and during that time your efforts could be better invested else where.

Yes, selling 300,000 units on the first day is a sure sign that the iPad will fade into obscurity any time soon.

Like it or not, the iPad is relevant. It obviously has a following and there will be devices that can imitate it and ride its coattails a bit. Perhaps these other devices can even improve on the design and become relevant in and of themselves. One thing is for certain, you completely ignore a popular device/platform at your own peril.

If you want to bandy about numbers, why not make your number bigger. The iPads were $500 each. That means that Apple grossed $150 million on opening day. I know readers can do math, but let's make it simple for them. A device that grosses $150 million on opening day, one year after the second worst economic disaster America has known, does not go away no matter how much you know it is an inferior device. People have been buying useless crap for years. Why does this surprise anyone? Boo Apple. Yay money!

Re:Just stop it

[e2d2]

Technically The Ford Pinto was a huge success also. Over 100k sold in the first month and eventually sold into the millions. Ford made huge profits from that car.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/7-people-who-are-returning-their-iPads/1270688736
http://cnnmoneytalkback.blogs.cnnmoney.cnn.com/2010/04/07/do-you-want-to-return-your-ipad/
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-jeff-jarvis-is-returning-his-ipad-2010-4
http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/04/08/why-i-returned-my-ipad/

Early indications are that about 25 to 40 percent of the initial purchases are being returned.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me, but wouldn't it have been simpler to just say "Apple fanboizen kick OpenMoko fangrrls pink little azzz"

Re:Just stop it

[arikol]

Man.... trying to use mouse based programs on a touchscreen will be a hateful experience for those who decide to try this..

Just an exercise in frustration and possible anger management afterwards.

Thankfully, more and more people are realizing that specs aren't the be-all, end-all. Being able to actually USE all the features and specs that you have is much more important. What would be the use of a single seat rocket car on 50km/h twisty roads?

Select the right tool for the intended use. If that is lounging about on the couch reading websites and maybe some light text editing, get a custom built device like an iPad.
If your hobbies include calls to tech support and tearing your hair out then buy a device sporting a touch controller but using software designed for a different class of devices.

Re:Just stop it

[FunkSoulBrother]

I would say more like AOL or Tivo or did.

Re:Just stop it

[dfghjk]

"Oddly, the vast majority of the (millions) people who have bought iPhones don't appear to give a shit if there's no flash on them."

What evidence do you have that says that?

Re:Just stop it

[dfghjk]

Apple sold 700,000 iPads the first day? How did they end up with only 400K for the month then?

Re:Just stop it

[dangitman]

The reason that touchpads are pointless, is that the range from laptops over smartbooks to mobile phones, does the same, but has a keyboard, and other goodies. Comparatively, touchpads are an inconvenience that only makes sense, if there is so little space that you haven’t got place for separate input and output devices.

Actually, touchscreens make perfect sense for a wide range of devices. After getting used to using one, I keep wanting to touch my desktop display to interact with it. In many ways, the keyboard and mouse are contrivances that get in the way and are clumsy. Particularly the mouse - it adds a barrier between you and the interface, you have to push a pointer around the screen, rather than directly interacting with it.

Barring voice or thought-controlled input, keyboards will still remain necessary for text input, but for the many situations where you don't need to input large amounts of text, a touchscreen is fantastic, it's faster and more intuitive than a mouse (and doesn't give me the RSI issues a mouse does).

Of course, I've been using pen-based graphics tablets for many years, and the mouse has always seemed inferior to me. I guess if all you're used to is a mouse, you are blinded to its inefficiencies.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

How about the MacBook Air? How's that doing?
Or AppleTV. How's that doing?

Re:Just stop it

[recharged95]

Yeah, releases were very buggy. it used surplus (i.e. circa 2001) hardware. Only held a battery charge within 4hrs, bad ergonomics/style and s/w baseline that changed every week and couldn't have a decent phone call.

A decent phone call....come on, rock solid calling would have been a win in my book.

I hacked with the wifi drivers to get skype working as that+EDGE would have been livable (in 2007) and the distro didn't understand WPA much better. And Openmoko was manipulated by a corporation, which eventually drop the majority of its support.

Re:Just stop it

[maxwell demon]

Apple sold 700,000 iPads the first day? How did they end up with only 400K for the month then?

300K were returned? :-)

Re:Just stop it

[justinb26]

Probably because you're both wrong?

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

700K, wow, thats a lot more than the 300K that was previously reported (and that 300K included those sent to resellers like BestBuy)
I don't see how you can count something sold when its sitting at a store on a shelf or in a warehouse.

Re:Just stop it

[Facegarden]

...In order to be an Apple killer it must work BETTER than the Apple. You have to be able to show your WORKING gadget to a potential Apple customer and make them want yours more....

That's what frustrates me about the Nexus One - or rather, google's marketing of the Nexus One. This really is something that can win over iPhone owners out of the box - it works great, the packaging is great, its snappy even with lots of apps installed. I really think it is a better phone than the iPhone and google could pull in a lot of people if they pushed it better and put the damn thing in stores.

Instead, they're letting verizon push the Droid, which I don't think is as good (600MHz processor, moving parts), when plenty of people would LOVE to have a Nexus One if they just knew about it!
-Taylor

Re:Just stop it

[jobst]

he did $0.
and from the left over he bought himself a blahPad.

Re:Just stop it

[dudpixel]

There's almost nothing I do at home where my desktop pc couldn't do it (much, much) better.

When I'm out, my (android) mobile phone is fine - and I dont see the iPad as being small enough to carry around anyway.

For the other times where I might like to use a PC at home or a friend's house, for example when sitting on the couch, my netbook is great for that (more practical than the iPad too because it runs exactly the same software as my desktop). The netbook screen tilts at any angle to make reading it while typing easy.

I just dont have a need for an iPad, and I suspect I'm not the only one.

Re:Just stop it

[dudpixel]

There are several DAP's that offer more/better features than the iPod. They're just not marketed by Apple.

What you really mean is where are those "iPod/Apple marketing killers"?

You people seem unable to tell the difference between quality/features vs sales figures/marketing. You cant compare devices using sales numbers because the sale mostly occurs before the buyer has used the device in any meaningful way. The iPod became popular due to clever marketing and design. It didn't offer anything that other audio players at the time couldn't do, but it did put audio players in the hands of people who wouldn't normally buy them. That is marketing at work.

Is Windows superior to MacOS? By your logic, the sales numbers would suggest that any version of Windows, even 3.11, is a MacOSX killer.

In the case of the iPod, I find it weird that people will pay twice the price for a device that looks cool, but does less. That is marketing at work.

Re:Just stop it

[dudpixel]

In order to be an Apple killer it must work BETTER than the Apple.

Not true. The iPod didn't work better than competing products, it looked better, and was marketed better. It was perceived as being easier although I think this is again marketing because it was easier to copy music to competing products (same as any USB drive) - but most non-technical people didn't know that.

You have to be able to show your WORKING gadget to a potential Apple customer and make them want yours more.

Now you understand how it works...(emphasis mine)

Re:Just stop it

[indiechild]

Making "Whatever-killers" is a game for suckers. People should read "ReWork" by 37signals. You need to define the market, not let the market define what you do. That's what Apple did with the iPad -- it doesn't compete or "kill" netbooks, it's a whole different class of device in itself.

Re:Just stop it

[Kitkoan]

Oddly, the vast majority of the (millions) people who have bought iPhones don't appear to give a shit if there's no flash on them.

I call BS.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Apple is perfectly happy to have the competition keep trying to fight on device hardware features, but the real feature is iTunes and the ready supply of content. Music, movies, podcasts, games, apps. Google has an app store you say? How about the music, movies, and podcasts? Underrate iTunes as much as you want, as a real user that actually enjoy my Apple product I know what I like when I see it. I've even set up iTunes on computers that have no Apple product tied to it. Content made easy.

Re:Just stop it

[H0p313ss]

In order to be an Apple killer it must work BETTER than the Apple.

Not true. The iPod didn't work better than competing products, it looked better, and was marketed better. It was perceived as being easier although I think this is again marketing because it was easier to copy music to competing products (same as any USB drive) - but most non-technical people didn't know that.

You have to be able to show your WORKING gadget to a potential Apple customer and make them want yours more.

Now you understand how it works...(emphasis mine)

Oh I agree... it doesn't have to work better, but it had better be perceived to work better especially when put in the hands of opinion leaders.

The only way to beat Apple in the mobile space it to outcool them. (And right now I'm gonna go with "Good luck with that".

Re:Just stop it

[H0p313ss]

Making "Whatever-killers" is a game for suckers. People should read "ReWork" by 37signals. You need to define the market, not let the market define what you do. That's what Apple did with the iPad -- it doesn't compete or "kill" netbooks, it's a whole different class of device in itself.

Agreed... my point is that there's not much point in even pretending to compete if your device is crap in comparison.

Re:Just stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

Please go and take photos of all the unsold ipads at best buy.

I'll give you $100.00 for such a photo.

Oh wait, you're full of shit? I understand now.

Re:Just stop it

[hey!]

This notion that people are simply being fooled into buying Apples devices is interesting, but doesn't quite jibe with the customer satisfaction level of the iPhone, for example.

It's an easy for people to assert that because if they believe that at this point it's a non-negatable hypothesis as far as they're concerned.

I have among other devices an iPod touch, and Android phone and a Lenvo tablet style netbook. The Android phone is very good, but judging from the iPod touch I'd guess the iPhone provides a superior user interface. The iPod touch is easily the most annoyance free user interface I've ever used on a mobile device. I prefer Android for my phone because I can set it up to work the way *I* want it to work. I bought the Android phone because I didn't want a device that was built around helping sell carrier services, and the integration of the phone with Google services and Google voice especially rocks. Android is a good enough and is open. The iPhone is more polished, but closed.

My experience with the Lenovo tablet are largely negative. It's a great device, but the tablet functions, even with the Windows 7 Premium upgrade, are dreadful. Practically every touch in tablet mode is a small, soul-sucking struggle. The iPod has it's UI faults in some areas, but where the finger meets the screen it is just about perfect.

What this tells me is that creating an iPad clone is far from easy. These days the *hardware* is easy. You use the same components and far eastern manufacturers as everyone else. The product design and user interface are very, very hard -- not something you can gin up in a couple of months. Apple has a multi-year lead in this, already achieving success with the iPhone.

Re:Just stop it

[Oldstench]

I love my Zune.

Re:Just stop it

[JasterBobaMereel]

The iPod alternatives are working very nicely thank you

They are cheaper, and work better

They however are struggling in a market dominated by one device, Try and buy an accessory for any other device and see if you get offered an iPod compatible one that will not work with your device

Maybe many people see the ubiquity of the iPod and decide to buy the compatible device ....

Re:Just stop it

[dudpixel]

That is true. The cool factor has taken Apple years to master, and it started when Steve Jobs rejoined the company.

Google has (had?) a certain amount of "cool" too, but lately that has been suffering due to the privacy concerns that have cropped up.

Yeah!

[Infonaut]

The free/open source OS will run the proprietary multimedia software. Openness triumphs again!

Re:Yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sarkasm +1

Re:Yeah!

[jedidiah]

If this thing can run Firefox and VLC then it will beat the snot out of the iPad for those of us that are interested in more than just the Walled Garden.

Some of us are interested in using whatever media or website we happen to come across, not lame excuses from fanboys.

Re:Yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Speling +1

Re:Yeah!

[sjonke]

I can't moderate this, but if I could, +1 Informative. +1 Funny. +1 Bingo.

Re:Yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Keyword here is "some".

Those "some" might add up to some sales but probably not of any consequence

Re:Yeah!

[dragonturtle69]

Sadly, most people seem to be interested more in "just works", even when it "just works" only in the manufacture's defined path, and is not allowed to stray from that defined path.

Re:Yeah!

[shutdown -p now]

The free/open source OS will run the proprietary multimedia software. Openness triumphs again!

I don't know why you're modded "Funny", because that is precisely what the huge advantage of openness (not just source, but in more general terms) is - the ability to extend further, thus giving the user the choice of what software he wants to run on his device, and how.

Re:Yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

And you expect Flash to take you there? Sure but don't go looking for a ride back. Hold on... Flash Banner ads just triggered by fans to turn on.

Re:Yeah!

[tyrione]

If this thing can run Firefox and VLC then it will beat the snot out of the iPad for those of us that are interested in more than just the Walled Garden.

Some of us are interested in using whatever media or website we happen to come across, not lame excuses from fanboys.

VLC is still a kludge on my Debian Linux. It's UI is garbage and it's ability to work out of the box can be hit n' miss. MPlayer seems to pick up the codecs more easily but it's UI makes VLC look like a dream.

Re:Yeah!

[GreyLurk]

Umm, Flash isn't proprietary... It's an open format, with at least one open source implementation: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/

Re:Yeah!

[gyrogeerloose]

If this thing can run Firefox and VLC then it will beat the snot out of the iPad for those of us that are interested in more than just the Walled Garden.

Yeah. All 200 of you.

Re:Yeah!

[k2r]

> Some of us are interested in using whatever media or website we happen to come across
Yes, some are.
Most aren't.

Re:Yeah!

[dangitman]

Sadly, most people seem to be interested more in "just works",

What's sad about that? I'd be more worried if people were interested in things that didn't work. That would be a truly dysfunctional society.

Re:Yeah!

[tclgeek]

re "If this thing can run Firefox and VLC then it will beat the snot out of the iPad for those of us that are interested in more than just the Walled Garden."

Hard to believe, I know, but you're actually in a very, very small club. Apple knows where the money is and it's not people who particularly care about open software. It's people who are actually quite happy in a walled garden, for better or worse.

Re:Yeah!

[Mr Bubble]

That's what I find interesting. Not too long ago, the average Slashdot user felt something between mild disdain and disgust for Flash. Now it's like Flash is the poster child for the open Internet.

Re:Yeah!

[dragonturtle69]

I think that you missed my contextual definition of "just works". It "Just works", so long as you don't change the hardware and don't take it anywhere, or run anything, that Apple doesn't approve.

Think of it as a car that works wonderfully, so long as you stay on approved roads, and it fails immediately once off those approved roads. The occupants' experience will be wonderful, but they will miss a large portion of the world.

Re:Yeah!

[dangitman]

I think that you missed my contextual definition of "just works". It "Just works", so long as you don't change the hardware and don't take it anywhere, or run anything, that Apple doesn't approve.

Doesn't really change anything. "Just works" as long as Apple approves is still a lot better than "doesn't work." Let's apply this to society - society tends to "just work" as long as you obey social conventions such as not robbing or murdering people. Would you rather a society that didn't work, where you are free to murder and rob people?

Re:Yeah!

[dudpixel]

wow suddenly people who want to do more than apple lets them are murderers and robbers...

excuse us for simply wanting some freedom from the aforementioned "walled garden".

Re:Yeah!

[dudpixel]

More people use firefox than the number of users of any apple product capable of surfing the net...

take the blinkers off

Re:Yeah!

[dangitman]

wow suddenly people who want to do more than apple lets them are murderers and robbers...

No, that's not what I was saying. Have you ever heard of an "analogy"?

excuse us for simply wanting some freedom from the aforementioned "walled garden".

But you said a lot more than that. You do have the freedom from the "walled garden" - when did anybody ever force you to use an Apple product? And why do you want to use things that don't work?

Re:Yeah!

[dudpixel]

In your analogy you equated anything that Apple does not let you do with crimes or unpleasant things.

What makes you think that anything outside the Apple ecosystem does not work?

I own no Apple products at all, and I do not have this "things dont work" problem that you seem so sure about.

The grass is just as green on the other side of the fence, so you perhaps need to adjust your assumptions a little.

Re:Yeah!

[dangitman]

In your analogy you equated anything that Apple does not let you do with crimes or unpleasant things.

No, I didn't. I equated "things that don't work" with crime and unpleasant things.

What makes you think that anything outside the Apple ecosystem does not work?

When did I say anything to that effect?

I own no Apple products at all, and I do not have this "things dont work" problem that you seem so sure about.

You were the one who said you thought it was sad that most people like things that work, not me.

The grass is just as green on the other side of the fence, so you perhaps need to adjust your assumptions a little.

What assumptions are you talking about?

Re:Yeah!

[binary paladin]

Why is that "sad"?

Not everyone wants to tinker with their devices. The ONLY reason this would be sad is if there was no choice involved and I couldn't get a more open device. Just because someone doesn't give a shit about the specifics of their hardware or software beyond meeting their needs doesn't mean they're stupid or morally inferior.

Good lord.

Re:Yeah!

[dragonturtle69]

I'll assume that you are not trolling, even though you compare making a choice to have unlocked hardware equivelant to promoting anachy. To respond in kind, I'll not give up freedom for an illusion of security.

Now, being able to go to YouTube or Hulu is not comparable in anyway with promoting crime, and no Flash equals no YouTube, Hulu, and a bunch of other places. "Just works" so long as you stay in Apple approved space, using Apple's stuff, no thanks. My "Just works" means that I go where I want, when I want, if I want, and how I want, not dictated to me by a vendor.

Re:Yeah!

[dragonturtle69]

Sad, not because they care not to tinker, but because they are happy to be walled in. Would you buy a television that worked only with one cable company and was incapable of picking up broadcast? Maybe you would like a Dell laptop, that worked only with Silverlight.

No Flash = No YouTube, for the sake of stability? Quicktime's plugins have crashed IE on Win 7, Vista, and XP, and FF on Suse 11.1 and 11.2 more times than I can count. The only Flash problems that I have encountered have been due to Adobe being slow to release a Linux flavored plugin.

Maybe if everyone switches to Quicktime it'll be okay, or maybe Apple just wants the iPad to stay in iTunes.

For everyone that enjoys the iPad, good, have fun with it.

Re:Yeah!

[dudpixel]

sorry mate, not trying to start a war. If you check the user id I'm not the person who started this...

I was just trying to put in another viewpoint.

Cheers anyway :)

Slashvert

[Frosty Piss]

This whole "article" - such that it is - should be marked Overrated and Troll. The fact is, there are *MANY* "tablet" computers out there, and have been even before the iSuck. This "story" - such that it is - is what is called a "Slashvertisment".

Re:Slashvert

[Shakrai]

That's not entirely fair. The platform is tailored for a more specific purpose than most tablet computers. It's being designed from the ground up to run Linux. Both of those facts should make it newsworthy, News for Nerds, remember?

Re:Slashvert

[rinoid]

I'd agree with you but since you are using an idiotic flamebait reference to a computing device I will not.

THIS WHOLE parent reply should be marked TROLL, FLAMEBAIT simply for Wasted energy man, wasted energy.

Re:Slashvert

[sjonke]

Agreed that this is an advertisement, and agree that tablets have been around long before the iPad, but none of them are like the iPad, and the iPad is innovative in its approach, whether geeks like that or not. This alleged iPad killer is like past tablets, albeit with Linux. If this is what others have up their sleeves as competition, the iPad will continue on its merry way, appealing to a market that will actually buy the product, rather then trying to fulfill the wants of a group that has no actual interest in buying the product they say they want.

Re:Slashvert

[sopssa]

Like past tablets? It also all the things that make iPad "innovative" and good like marketplace and sleek look and UI. It doesn't have the "features" that make iPad shitty, like limiting how many processes you can run, what software you can install and has open source OS.

Appealing to a market? I'm not sure their size is really the same as Apple's or that they can pull off same kind of PR and marketing tricks, but they have compete with good features. For me that is a good thing.

Re:Slashvert

[Pojut]

agree that tablets have been around long before the iPad, but none of them are like the iPad, and the iPad is innovative in its approach

If by "innovative in its approach" you mean charging the same as fully functional devices while only having half the functionality, you are correct. That isn't opinion, that is fact. Naturally, whether you think it is worth it or not is up to you.

That being said, I never thought I would see people ardently defending paying more for less, but people who love shiny things that do the same as stuff they already own have proven me wrong once again.

Re:Slashvert

[Anonymous Coward]

>It also all the things that make iPad "innovative" and good like marketplace and sleek look and UI
Yeah, OpenOffice on a small touch screen is going to look real sleek and will be a dream to use. What makes the iPad good is that it comes with software specifically made for touch screen tablets. We have no idea about the market place the wePad will use, either. We do know that most people aren't interested in getting apps in via a third channel. Sales numbers on any mobile platform before the iPod Touch/iPhone prove that.

Re:Slashvert

[Bert64]

The "marketplace" is nothing new, linux has had something similar for years it's just that apple dressed it up to look pretty and marketed it well..

The wepad is bigger and heavier than the ipad while having inferior battery life, and seems to have vents at the top suggesting it gets quite hot. I would rather have an open arm based tablet, ipad like hardware and open software...

On the subject of software, for anything like this to succeed it needs to have a slick interface, all the previous tablets i've used had really lousy interfaces, typically just desktop interfaces that don't work well on a tablet.

Re:Slashvert

[justinb26]

"Half the functionality" isn't opinion, it's fact? I'm quite interested in learning more about the methodology you used to quantify this. Remember to show your work.

While we're at it, could you point me at the "fully functional" devices that cost the same as the ipad. No vaporware please!

Re:Slashvert

[c6gunner]

That being said, I never thought I would see people ardently defending paying more for less

Ever been to a strip club? The skinnier the girls, the more you pay!

Come to think of it, dating isn't much different ....

Re:Slashvert

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not the OP and I can't show my work. I can show my questions though. How does Open Office do with multi touch? How does it do with just touch - not stylus / mouse, but fingers? Do browsers on Linux do well with touch? Does GIMP do well with fingers? Mostly I doubt it - not because any of them are defective; they just have not been designed with that in mind.

Re:Slashvert

[sjonke]

If you choose your products purely based on length of feature list, you're going to end up with a shitload of crappy stuff. Heck, I've seen USB card readers that double as fake vomit. That's obviously better then any USB card reader that doesn't also double as a party gag.

Re:Slashvert

[Pojut]

"Half the functionality" isn't opinion, it's fact? I'm quite interested in learning more about the methodology you used to quantify this. Remember to show your work.

Limited multi-tasking. No card reader of any kind. No USB ports. Zero user servicable parts inside (i.e. can't replace internal storage, battery, etc.) Limited to applications in app store (unless you jailbreak it, but we aren't counting what it can do once it is hacked.)

All of these things are available on portable machines that cost as much and, in many cases, less than an iPad. I know you are paying for the form fact, but the fact that there is a keyboard accessory that the iPad docks to is HILARIOUS. If you own an iPad, and buy the keyboard dock...why didn't you just buy a netbook?

While we're at it, could you point me at the "fully functional" devices that cost the same as the ipad. No vaporware please!

Ever hear of a netbook, or a budget laptop? Or any of the literally dozens of tablets that are on their way?

Oh wait, you mean something that can be used in a tablet form factor and bought today. Here you go.

In fact, for less than the cost of the "top of the line" iPad, you could buy an Alienware m11x.

Re:Slashvert

[Pojut]

I don't base my decisions on the length of a feature list, but having some basics are required. You know, like a USB port. Or the ability to install whatever I want on it (and no, I don't mean in the open source sense, I mean in the non-app store sense.)

I'm not saying the iPad sucks...I'm just saying that I refuse to pay full price for something that isn't full featured.

Re:Slashvert

[bdenton42]

the iPad is innovative in its approach

What, exactly, is innovative about "super-size me"?

Three years ago the iTouch/iPhone were innovative. They created a whole new handheld app monopoly for Apple. That's a big, big deal.

The iPad is simply the latest refresh of an established product line.

Re:Slashvert

[larry bagina]

joojoo much?

Re:Slashvert

[Duradin]

"Zero user servicable parts inside"

User serviceable parts add bulk to an item. If part of the item's functionality is due to its form factor having user serviceable parts can impair the overall functionality of the device.

If you want something small and sleek you don't want all sorts of bulges and ports and doors on the device just to support getting at a component 99.999% of the users will never want or need to access.

This is a bit extreme but compare D-cell batteries to a form fitted Li-po battery for use in a tablet. Sure the end user can easily replace the D-cell but now you've added a lot of size and weight and probably lost a fair bit battery life.

Re:Slashvert

[justinb26]

Definitely agree. If they've been working on touch-enabled OpenOffice or Gimp I'd love to see it. Hell, I'd probably toss them on my iPad once it's JB'ed. (Yes, you can compile/install java on iPhoneOS)

However, it seems to me that everybody who's been whining for the last 2-3 months about how the iPad isn't a "real" computer, are going to get exactly what they asked for: A desktop pc crammed into a slate formfactor, running mostly desktop apps.

Sounds a lot less useful than either a desktop OR an iPad to me.

Re:Slashvert

[Pojut]

Based on a number of different sources, the thing is hard to hold on to for any decent length of time. Nearly every review I have read makes mention of this, regardless of whether it heralds the iPad as the second coming of christ or as a piece of junk.

Just like supermodels with eating disorders, being too skinny can be a bad thing.

Re:Slashvert

[Pojut]

For what it's worth, Windows 7 (and many mainstay programs that have been updated since 7 was released, including Office, Firefox, etc.) are already very "finger-friendly" in design. Things like sliding to the edges of the screen to maximize a window or automatically resize it so it takes up half the screen, the "ribbon" in Office 2010, as well as the large icon-based main toolbar reminiscent of OSX are good examples.

Ubuntu Netbook Remix would also be very conducive for use with a touchscreen interface. The optimizations for netbook hardware would also match up well with the netbook-class hardware that seems to be appearing in forthcoming tablets.

Re:Slashvert

[Antiocheian]

You are right. I was considering buying an iPad but after reading your comment I decided to wait for the WePad.

Re:Slashvert

[Antiocheian]

You are wasting your time with a fanboy.

Re:Slashvert

[JWSmythe]

    I second that one.

    Well, not the strip club part. I don't do those. (I worked in the adult industry, and see the money guys waste on not getting laid and laugh).

    Ya, the prettier, skinner girls end up costing us a fortune. What's worse is the ones who want to date, and want you to go out with them every night, but it never goes anywhere. I was seeing this totally hot girl who dropped every hint that she wanted me, except for actually doing it. She insisted on splitting the cost of going out when applicable, so we were on a "just friends and then more" level. Then the equality of us going out went away when she "didn't have any money" and I was to pay. So one very pointed statement was made, and a few hours of fighting ensued. Well, one sided fighting, but hey. I woke up to a bunch of voicemails and emails. There was an apology in the middle, but it was wiped out by the absolute hatred in the ones that followed. I like fights that I don't even have to be involved in. :)

      I had a roommate the same way. I spotted her insanity a mile away. She was a friend of a friend, who needed a place to stay and I had a spare room. I let her stay with me. She made very suggestive moves on me, which were stopped at the most inopportune times by "I think we should stay friends." Ok, whatever. Then she met a guy, and went to stay with him. Just over a month later, after living with him and his dad giving her a job at the family business, she showed back up at my door. "Do you believe he wanted to sleep with me? He wanted sex!" Well, no shit. You moved in with him, were sleeping in bed with him (without having sex). Dad gave you a job and anything else you wanted. You were his girlfriend. She never did learn that she was dropping hints saying that's what she wanted, and was completely stunned when anyone broke the news to her. So, she stayed at my place for two more nights and was gone.

    And if my sampling of women of the world has anything to say, all women are completely nuts. We'll suffice it to say, the sample set is large enough to make almost any statistician happy. :)

      And now that I've been woman-free for months, I'm almost happier. No crazy-chick headaches. More money in my pocket. And, I have time to mess around with things I want to do. There's no "but sweetie, I wanted you to go shopping for shoes with me." or "can you help me do this." Bah. For what dating costs, it's cheaper to hire a good escort. $1000/hr and you're with a beautiful woman who'll do anything you want, and when you're done she leaves and never bothers you. She won't even come over again until you call her. :)

Re:Slashvert

[SteveFoerster]

So in other words, like the old saying goes, you don't pay escorts to come over to your place, you pay them to leave afterward?

Re:Slashvert

[insertwackynamehere]

Yeah, but the point is you aren't giving in. Remember, the iPad is like the cool kids at school who beat you up and date women; you hate them because you wish you were them. I'm glad a company with no reputation that I've ever heard of has promised me the iPad but with blackjack and hookers. Oh, and I'm equally enthralled that they gave me permission to use Open Office on it! That sounds like a dream...a nonstandardized and confusing UI trying to work on a form factor it was even _less_ designed for? I sure am tickled with excitement. All I can say is that I sure hope Apple opens up it's development platform so that anyone can cobble anything together in any language they want with no barrier of entry. See, I believe in the free market (Ron Paul!) and to me, this means that Apple is legally obligated to do this because I said so. I don't want an iPhone, nor do I honestly know how to develop a true fullfledged application, but I still want a part. Apple is running themselves into the ground; no consumer likes the fact Apple retains so much control and no one wants to develop for the platform because it's so unpopular. So that is why this Linux slate is going to take the world by storm and completly blow Apple out of the water. The people have wanted this, and Apple doesn't innovate at all or come up with good products which is why end users hate them and they are almost financially ruined.

Re:Slashvert

[c6gunner]

+5 insightful!

Re:Slashvert

[BlackSnake112]

Have you use Ubuntu remix? That looked like it was designed for touchscreens when I installed in on my mini 9 netbook.

Also Apple looked at what people didn't like about other smart phones when designing theirs. It does pay to wait and see what works and what doesn't sometimes. As long as you avoid most of what people do not like, you should do well.

Re:Slashvert

[c6gunner]

Well, not the strip club part. I don't do those. (I worked in the adult industry, and see the money guys waste on not getting laid and laugh).

Agreed. I only go when it's a "social event" (fairly rare). I still end up dropping loads of dough, but it's more to fit in with/impress the people I'm with rather than any carnal desires. Hell, the last time I went for a "dance" I just gave the girl a bunch of 20's and told her to sit there so we could have a decent conversation. I think the whole industry is rather pointless, but it's obviously a great way to make money.

And now that I've been woman-free for months, I'm almost happier. No crazy-chick headaches. More money in my pocket. And, I have time to mess around with things I want to do. There's no "but sweetie, I wanted you to go shopping for shoes with me." or "can you help me do this." Bah.

I gave up on women years ago, and I've never been happier. When I really feel the need to get laid it's not hard to do, and the rest of the time ... you're exactly right - more money, more time, less headaches ... I wish I'd figured that out a decade ago :)

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into a relationship-advice column, I was just making a joke. But I couldn't resist replying to your comment.

Re:Slashvert

[TheSHAD0W]

...you don't want all sorts of bulges and ports and doors on the device just to support getting at a component 99.999% of the users will never want or need to access.

Considering the battery has a life span of only a few years, I think that's a major exception.

Re:Slashvert

[warrior]

Once you get an iPod/iPhone/iMac/mac mini "open" it is actually very easy to service the parts. The smaller devices use little ZIF ribbons that make it fairly easy, the computers use interfaces that are also easy to figure out even if you've never serviced your own computer. Had apple not made it hard to open these devices there would be a lot more people buying replacement parts to fix these devices rather than shelling out for new ones. Apple could have easily kept the same form factors and made these devices user serviceable, it just means there are a couple screws on those shiny back plates.

Re:Slashvert

[King Gabey]

... So a quick google search says the average couple reports having sex 146 times a year. That's $146,000! And, if you're a complete pervert like me, that cost goes through the roof. I have to call my girlfriend and thank her for saving me from bankruptcy!

Re:Slashvert

[Daengbo]

... in the U.S.

Re:Slashvert

[c6gunner]

Somehow I doubt your girlfriend is $1,000 an hour material. Your cost would probably be more along the line of $14,600, and, with the bulk-discount, could go as low as $7,000. I'd say you're still getting ripped off.

Re:Slashvert

[dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv]

do openoffice or gimp run at all on an ipad? any real alternatives?

Re:Slashvert

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh. The world for mod points.

Posting AC as I'm married...

Re:Slashvert

[JWSmythe]

Hell, the last time I went for a "dance" I just gave the girl a bunch of 20's and told her to sit there so we could have a decent conversation.

    You know, it's funny, I mentioned the adult entertainment industry. At one point, we had a relationship with a strip club, and I had to go in occasionally to maintain cameras. A few of the girls knew me. Sometimes if things were slow, they'd grab me, throw on something resembling clothes and talk to me at a table. Part of it was that they were bored and wanted to have an actual intellectual conversation. Sometimes it was to bring in business.

    A girl by herself not getting any other guys attention is intrinsically uninteresting. A girl getting tipped or even just talking to a guy for any duration is more interesting. Obviously I wanted to spend 10 or 15 minutes talking to her, there must be something good there. Almost without fail, when I'd get up to walk out (or fix cameras, or whatever) she'd have another guy there before I got more than a few feet away. :) I've even been paid to tip dancers. For example, they'd give me $20 in $1's. I'd then tip then $10 like I was really interested (one at a time, of course). If I ran out of the money they gave me, they'd come over, whisper in my ear, and slip money back into my hand. It's a fun game. The more I tipped, the more other guys would tip. Likewise, it made me more money, being the plant in the audience. :) It's almost like a sociological experiment for both me and the girls. Human nature is a really weird thing.

    I haven't gone into a strip club for anything other than work reasons because it's so obvious how it works. :) Since I haven't worked there in a few years, I haven't had any reason to do anything more than drive by one.

Re:Slashvert

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It's being designed from the ground up to run Linux. Both of those facts should make it newsworthy, News for Nerds, remember?

Oh who are we kidding? The name invites potty humor and the people who hate the iPad post more often on the topic than those who don't.

Re:Slashvert

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Penthouse,

I never believed it could happen to me but. . .

Re:Slashvert

[redhog]

And... why the hell didn't you tell her how other people (you, that other guy) perceived her behavior? I mean, the second time when she stayed w you for two days? You know, people don't always know or understand how they are perceived, and if no-one tells them, on a friend-to-friend basis, how are they ever to learn? You should have been very specific too, pointed out things she'd said or done, and then how you interpreted that (knowing now that your interpretation was wrong), then asking her to analyze why you where mislead and why she behaved like she did.

To summarize: Why don't people just _talk_ about stuff like this??!?

Re:Slashvert

[mdwh2]

In your opinion. What does the Ipad do that no other tablets do, and why is this special enough that it means the Ipad should be the only tablet ever acknowledged to exist?

This should be an article for the WePad. There's no need to give an obligitary advert to Apple yet again. I mean come on, we've already had about three Apple stories today anyway, isn't that enough?

If this is what others have up their sleeves as competition

There are plenty of other tablets. You're a fool if you rely on Slashdot for your tech news, now that for mobile products like phones and tablets, they only cover Apple, and products that don't compare as well to it. Any company that beats them hands down (e.g., Nokia for phones) are simply never mentioned.

Re:Slashvert

[mdwh2]

Three years ago the iTouch/iPhone were innovative. They created a whole new handheld app monopoly for Apple. That's a big, big deal.

Although even there, it's only innovative for Apple's benefit. There was no innovation for the consumer, who don't benefit from Apple having an app monopoly on their platform.

Re:Slashvert

[JWSmythe]

    I did. She wasn't happy about it at all. But that isn't why she left the second time. She had some very bad habits. I won't go into it, but suffice it to say, she found somewhere else to feed those habits, since it wasn't happening at my place.

Re:Slashvert

[Americano]

"full featured" and "full price" are pretty subjective calls.

What you call "limited features," lots of other people call "does everything I need it to do." Value is in the eye of the beholder - if the iPad isn't a good value proposition for you, then by all means you should not buy it, and should buy a netbook, or laptop, or desktop instead. For a lot of people, it does seem as if there's a pretty good value proposition to it - I'd guess that those people don't have "must have a USB port," as a requirement.

If I need a pickup truck, and I buy a Honda Civic, that's dumb. If I need a Honda Civic, and I buy a pickup truck, that's also pretty dumb. Different products suit different needs, and not all "needs" can be boiled down to a simple checklist of "has" or "doesn't have" items.

Re:Slashvert

[Americano]

"handheld app monopoly"? You mean there's no other way to get an application for a handheld device but through apple, and on an apple device? That's amazing. Here I was thinking that there were dozens of sources of handheld apps for the multitude of handheld devices out there.

Sloppy rhetoric doesn't help your point, it only serves to distract. Just sayin'.

Re:Slashvert

[Americano]

They don't have an app monopoly. As with the post you're responding to, sloppy rhetoric doesn't help your point.

They control the distribution channel by which you can get native applications onto the device, certainly. But they are not restricting people from writing apps for their devices, as the fact that tens of thousands of non-Apple-written applications are available on the App Store will certainly demonstrate.

If you don't like that they control the channel that allows people to get new apps onto their devices, you should state that. Claiming that they have an "app monopoly" on their platform is pretty silly. If you want to write for their platform, spend the $99 for the SDK, and write an app. Your disapproval does not make their development & distribution model a "monopoly".

Re:Slashvert

[bdenton42]

Apple was estimated to have owned 99.4% of the mobile application market last year. http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-for-994-of-mobile-app-sales-in-2009.ars. That sounds like a defacto monopoly in the making to me.

And they are currently "abusing" their monopoly to prevent dilution of their market to Android and other handhelds (e.g. restrictions on coding languages and frameworks).

Yes, they may not be "technically" considered a monopoly, at least not yet, but if it quacks like a duck.

Re:Slashvert

[Anonymous Coward]

This should be an article for the WePad.

Don't you mean "Wepad"? After all, I thought you didn't follow capitalization schemes that deviate from the norm?

The name of the founder...

[Anonymous Coward]

The name of the founder is a little long... "Helmut Hoffer von Ankershoffen". Not great for marketing. To rival the iPad, he should change his name to something people can easily remember, like Steve Jobs.

I suggest him Helm Anker. Sounds good doesn't it?

If you want to do like someone, be like him! ;-)

Re:The name of the founder...

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't sound good in German. "Helm Anker" means "Helmet Anchor". It's nonsensical.

Re:The name of the founder...

[ClosedSource]

Yes, because all potential customers speak English and prefer English-sounding names.

Re:The name of the founder...

[courteaudotbiz]

Yes, but most customers are English or Chinese speaking anyway...

You know what, Lake Titicaca means "Lake small pooh" in french. Often, words mean strange things in at least one other language...

Re:The name of the founder...

[HarrySquatter]

Yes, because it wasn't like the GP was making a joke or anything.

Re:The name of the founder...

[Megahard]

It's better than Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm.

Wait a second

[Anonymous Coward]

WePad? Seriously? April fools was almost two weeks ago guys...

Cue the lawsuit from Nintendo

[AnonymousClown]

The complaint in a nutshell: "The WePad will be confused by the public with the Wii."

Come on! You know that's coming!

Re:Cue the lawsuit from Nintendo

[Nadaka]

It could be worse. It could be confused for a wii remote appliance with an even more similar name...

Re:Cue the lawsuit from Nintendo

[sheph]

:) yeah, that's what I thought too. More to the point, people will think it's for the wii and investigate it giving the wepad a marketing edge. Queue the lawyers in 3..2..1..

iTunes Confusion

[pete-classic]

you may use 'any application that pleases you' to play music and video, a clear edge over Apple's limitation to iTunes.

This is a very confusing -- and probably confused -- statement.

iPad can play back content with its iPod functionality. Which isn't "iTunes" in any meaningful sense. (It also includes an iTunes store interface.)

Content can be loaded onto the device only with the iTunes Mac or PC application, but there are many ways to add content to your local iTunes app other than the iTunes store. For example, ripped CDs, Amazon MP3s, "Digital Copies" included with many Blu-ray discs, anything you encode yourself with compatible codecs and parameters (e.g. DVDs ripped and encoded to M4V with Handbrake).

-Peter

Re:iTunes Confusion

[JonJ]

'Play' not 'aquire'.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[pete-classic]

iTunes doesn't play anything on the iPad, which is exactly my point.

-Peter

Re:iTunes Confusion

[jo_ham]

Well, the iPad doesn't use iTunes to "play" music either - that app is the iPod app. The iTunes app is the front to the music and video store.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[jedidiah]

"with compatible codecs and parameters"

Well that's the tricky detail now isn't it?

You have to adapt all of your stuff to whatever limitations Apple has laid out.

If Handbrake trips on something, you're slightly screwed as iTunes won't give you any useful information when it rejects something.

None of this is really managed by Apple. The end user is left to fend for themselves with this stuff and that is hardly very usuable. It's certainly not the sort of experience that iTunes and iPods were originally built on.

This is something that the fanboys like to sweep under the rug.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[pete-classic]

You have to adapt all of your stuff to whatever limitations Apple has laid out.

You seem to be suggesting that these limitations are capricious. But these devices don't have the CPU to decode modern video codecs in software. These limitations are well-documented, and dictated by hardware decoding capabilities.

What exactly is being swept under the rug?

-Peter

Re:iTunes Confusion

[HarrySquatter]

You have to adapt all of your stuff to whatever limitations Apple has laid out.

Because no other handheld multimedia device does exactly the same thing, right? Oh wait... Every device such as this has limitations on codecs and their parameters, resolution of the content, frame rates, and audio codecs.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

If your media player app is bad enough to merit replacing,

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

(Proof in point: I love xmms and iTunes, Windows Media Player on the other hand...)

Re:iTunes Confusion

[gyrogeerloose]

Let's have an involuntary moratorium on "fixed that for ya" replies. They have long since ceased to be witty.

Fixed that for ya.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[JonJ]

Now you're nitpicking. It's Apples app that is used for playing music on the iPhone/iPad, it is effectively 'iTunes' even if that's not its name. You missed the parents point and whatever your point was, it was way off target with regards to what you were replying to. The name of the app isn't important.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but the iPhone/iPod/iPad limitation of multimedia playback is real.
I already have tons of DVD's already converted with Handbrake in h264 but to MKV container format that is compatible with every network connected device in my home - except iPhone. Why would I want to spend time to re-convert all those files only so that it can be used with iPod? If I convert to M4V then my FreeBox HD (it's a very common and extremely good TV box in France) cannot play them.
On the iPhone I cannot download VLC to playback those files. On the iPhone I have installed an app so that I can browse the media share on my Buffalo Linkstation but still cannot playback those excellent MKV's. I refuse to have the same video files in duplicate formats just to please Apple.

Re:iTunes Confusion

[pete-classic]

I strenuously disagree. Words mean things. "iTunes" is already overloaded. Adding further meanings that are dead wrong can't possibly help the situation.

Since you admittedly don't understand what my point was, can you concede the mere possibility that I did, in fact, understand the post I was replying to?

The story says:

People who want to put music on their WePad do not have to have any particular software, Ankershoffen said -- a blow at Apple's devices that require particular Apple software like iTunes.

[...]

The device would allow publishers to sell their content on its platform without monopolizing the customer relationship, as Apple's iTunes or Amazon's Kindle do, the company said.

The first statement is true, but somewhat misleading. The second statement is utterly false, because iTunes (store) and iTunes (file transfer utility) have been conflated. Amazon sells MP3s, which can be put on the iPad using iTunes. The true statement, that you can't use general purpose file management tools to copy files to the iPad, is then overgeneralized to suggest that only content from the iTunes store may be used on the device.

So, none of this has to do with media playback, which was my point.

Playback (via iPod/QuickTime) is open, but limited by hardware compatibility, as discussed elsewhere in this thread.

-Peter

Wow

[93 Escort Wagon]

If you think the iPad is too big and too heavy... wait until you see the WePad!

I can see why most of the teaser shots showed the WePad with its screen turned off - the single actual "screenshot" looked pretty odd.

Re:Wow

[TheKidWho]

The iPad is definetly too heavy, I have one, it gets tiring... Need to work out my wrists more, brb porn calls.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats with the open office bashing.

OOO works great.

Re:Wow

[natehoy]

Define "better". It's a subjective term.

The iPad is not a computer. It's a content consumption device. A damned awesome one, don't get me wrong, but its primary purpose is to consume content. There are a few specific things it does very well, and anything it doesn't do very well it will not be allowed to do at all. Other things that it COULD do well it won't be allowed to do either. It's a closed ecosystem, by design. This ensures an awesome user experience as long as you want to do things that Apple agrees are good things to do on it. It's a walled garden, but the flowers are very nice and you can choose what color flowers you want as long as you buy the seeds from Apple. There are a lot of people who like walled gardens. Apple is very smart to build a machine that fits that need quite well.

The reviewed device, such as it is, is an actual computer. Warts and all. It runs an operating system that you have a much greater level of control over, and with the off-the-shelf hardware you could probably run another OS on it if you wanted to. That means you are allowed to do things with it that it doesn't do particularly well. The garden walls are down, and weeds can get in, but you can plant anything you like. Not all the plants will always grow well. It's going to have less battery life and weigh more because it's going to need (and have) more horsepower. It's going to cost more because it's going to have more powerful hardware. It's probably also going to suck monkey balls, because tablets are more of a content-consumption form factor than a real-computer form factor.

Apple is going to do well in the tablet niche, building a device that does exactly what most people want tablets to do, and stripping out all the stuff that people think they want to do with tablets and are in for a bitter disappointment when they discover the form factor isn't good for those things. Have you seen a breakdown of the iPad? There's just not much hardware in there, and none of it is particularly powerful. Why is that? Because you don't need a lot of power to consume content. Other companies want to make tablets into general purpose computers. For the most part, that's going to suck. Badly.

And shipping with OpenOffice is meant to be a good thing?

As opposed to making you pay $30 for iWork?

Shipping with OpenOffice is a good thing, at least for those of us who use OpenOffice and find it perfectly adequate for our needs. And remember, OpenOffice is also free, which is a big argument for including it. You can always purchase and run anything you damned well please, including Microsoft Office if you want to spend a little time twiddling with Wine or Crossover. There are also lots of lighter-weight word processors out there that are free or cost next to nothing.

Don't get me wrong, iWork sounds nice, and the $30 price tag isn't terrible, and you get word processing, spreadsheet, and great-sounding presentation at a pretty reasonable price. But we're back to the "walled garden" argument. What if I think iWork sucks? What if I need something that can save actual recent Microsoft .DOC formatted files and not RTF or older formats? Can I try out other word processing or spreadsheet packages? How many of them are available and how much do they cost?

?Pad....

[irreverant]

What's with the naming convention?...the iPad, the wePad, next the usPad following soon the youPad and finally for you women, the maxiPad.

Re:?Pad....

[jmanforever]

What's with the naming convention?...the iPad, the wePad, next the usPad following soon the youPad and finally for you women, the maxiPad.

I just want to turn down the volume on all of this noise. I guess I need... an L-Pad.

Re:?Pad....

[NatasRevol]

Wouldn't that last one be the theyPad??

Re:?Pad....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, in addition to the iPad's already bad naming, they're now going to triple whammy and conflict with Nintendo AND Apple with the WiiPad / WePad?

Re:?Pad....

[shutdown -p now]

In other news, Acer has announced the release of a new product titled "NotAPad" - a next-generation netbook.

Features...

[elewton]

A delightful microfan to hum you to sleep.

Re:Features...

[OzPeter]

A delightful microfan to hum you to sleep.

You got modded funny on this .. but that is one of the main benefits I see in the iPad as I can't stand the whiny mosquito sound of my EEE pc. Though I will be looking into any other small form factor system that doesn't have a fan in it before I sell my soul to Apple.

Re:Features...

[Anonymous Coward]

that is because your EEE is intel inside.

I have not seen a single arm machine that needed a fan
ever

But...

[ipquickly]

Will it run OS X?

Re:But...

[Graff]

More importantly: will it blend?

Re:But...

[DaVince21]

It doesn't have to! The iPad doesn't, either.

Less space than a nomad...

[Duradin]

Specs aren't what will make a device sell well with non-geeks (of which there are more of than geeks).

Re:Less space than a nomad...

[jedidiah]

"Specs" are what separates a device that will play whatever you have lying around from something that requires special conversion tools and a special loader.

Re:Less space than a nomad...

[Anonymous Coward]

what's a nomad?

Re:Less space than a nomad...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I'm looking forward to the idea of using a case-sensitive-*nix-CLI on it so I can tinker. Wee.

Re:Less space than a nomad...

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a good point there, something that I think is often overlooked. People sink into these ideas or whatever and start to think everyone is like that.

/. is so confused

[Slash.Poop]

Apple gadget. Linux gadget. Apple gadget. Linux gadget. Apple gadget. Linux gadget.
What one should I like?!?!?! ::head explodes::

Re:/. is so confused

[painandgreed]

Apple gadget. Linux gadget. Apple gadget. Linux gadget. Apple gadget. Linux gadget.
What one should I like?!?!?! ::head explodes::

First, go see which ones are actually out or at least have a delivery date and don't look like vaporware. Then, check them out. Read the reviews. Ask about them to your friends who have them. Even go to a store and try using them a bit. Decide which one has the features you want to use and go with that one.

Of course, if you were a true /.er you'd always go with the Linux gadget, and if it didn't have the features you wanted just write them yourself and submit your source.

Re:/. is so confused

[Anonymous Coward]

... Apple gadget. Linux gadget.

What one should I like?!?!?! ::head explodes::

Do you seriously mean that you can't decide between an overrated, expensive brand-name gadget that's full of limitations and restrictions, and a device with more functionality, free and open software with no restrictions?

Let me try to get this straight...

You're buying a house, and you have two to choose from. One house is kinda nice, ridiculously expensive, and you have to use the furniture that comes with it. The other house is just as fancy, more amenities, you can do what you want with it and you can get all the furniture you'll ever want for free! ....and you can't decide?

Re:/. is so confused

[Slash.Poop]

You missed the joke.

Re:/. is so confused

[tclgeek]

You lost me on the "just as fancy" part. The wePad will be heavier. It will be more expensive. It will have less battery life. It likely won't have a UI finely tuned to the multi-touch experience. How is that "just as fancy"?

Re:/. is so confused

[Americano]

Let's not forget that if your Open House doesn't have the furniture you want, you also have the freedom to hear these delightful responses when you ask about how to acquire the missing furniture:

1) Build it your fucking self, loser.

2) You didn't need that anyway, it's a proprietary spec, and the Open House doesn't support closed furniture. Use Ogg Beanbag, it's suitable for multiple purposes.

3) What have you done for Open Housing lately, anyway? Fuck off, we don't work for you!

Oh, and your Open House comes with a Stallman Room. Don't ever ask what goes on in there. *shudder*

Obligatory Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

iPad, uPad, we all scream for WePad!

Give me ARM, please

[marcansoft]

I'm tired of people shoehorning the power-hungry x86 architecture into small devices. If there's one thing that Apple did right it's not using the Atom. The WePad runs Linux: there's no reason to stick with the legacy x86 architecture. Even Adobe Flash works on ARM (just not Flash 10 yet).

If the WePad used an ARM chip, it could probably retain its feature set and bump up the battery duration to the iPad level, which seems to be the only feature where it loses to it.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[nomadic]

The WePad runs Linux: there's no reason to stick with the legacy x86 architecture.

If you're running Linux, you're sticking with legacy x86 architecture.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[doti]

word

Re:Give me ARM, please

[BadAnalogyGuy]

That's not necessarily true. Sharp's Netwalker is based on the Freescale i.MX51 which is ARM Cortex-A8 and Ubuntu.

It even has Flash(Lite).

Linux isn't tied to x86.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

try the touchbook arm based, and was out before the ipad, production runs are small though.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[jedidiah]

> If you're running Linux, you're sticking with legacy x86 architecture.

How can you even be on Slashdot and post something that ignorant?

Re:Give me ARM, please

[SimonTheSoundMan]

ARM is for RISCOS.. Yeah!

Re:Give me ARM, please

[BumpyCarrot]

Whilst ARM is nice from a portability standpoint, I remember running into problems running Linux even on PPC, never mind ARM. As soon as you leave x86, you enter a world where that one app that you really like using JUST ISN'T COMPILED. And once I have to start compiling for myself, I'm not USING a device any more, I may as well be building it.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[daeley]

How can you even be on Slashdot and post something that ignorant?

If it weren't for your user number, a hearty "You must be new here!" would seem appropriate. However, it would feel too much like yelling at old people to be very amusing. ;)

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

... battery duration to the iPad level, which seems to be the only feature where it loses to it.

To be honest, I would say the most important area where the wePad loses isn't a listed one; and that's Apple's UI.

Like it or not Apple's (proprietary) OS and it's stylish intuitive UI are what set iPad apart. I mean really OpenOffice? This isn't competing with Apple's iPad. It's competing with all the (failed) pads that run Windows...

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're running Linux, you're sticking with legacy x86 architecture.

That right?

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Hurricane78]

You forget the typical Apple pricing = $whatYoudSellYourMomFor + $1 ;)

Re:Give me ARM, please

[dhobbit]

That's kinda the point. The hardware provider should have provided a fully functional device. Not everything needs to customized.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[BumpyCarrot]

I suppose the problem is defining the form factor. Is it a "personal computer", or "just a device"? My issue with the iPad is that as awesome as the form factor is, it strays too much towards the latter than the former.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

It needs the power of the ATOM to run the ZFS file system.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[aBaldrich]

I was going to say "he must be new here".
But then I saw your user ID is greater than his.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[forgot_my_username]

> If you're running Linux, you're sticking with legacy x86 architecture.

How can you even be on Slashdot and post something that ignorant?

What's linux?

hehe... just kidding don't have an aneurysm.


Hey, you kids get off my lawn

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

He can't. He's a robot sent from the future to destroy with his stupidity.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be honest here; there aren't many intelligent Slashdotters left. KDawson saw to that.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[Kitkoan]

I'm tired of people shoehorning the power-hungry x86 architecture into small devices. If there's one thing that Apple did right it's not using the Atom. The WePad runs Linux: there's no reason to stick with the legacy x86 architecture. Even Adobe Flash works on ARM (just not Flash 10 yet).

How did you get modded up? Linux runs on the ARM processor too, as noted on the arm.com website.

Re:Give me ARM, please

[DaVince21]

Or ARM, or PPC, or, uhhh... Cyrix?

Re:Give me ARM, please

[LS]

His user number isn't even all that high... I'm flabbergasted as well.

Bring in the guards!

just one little thing...

[s0litaire]

... what no camera??

Re:just one little thing...

[s0litaire]

..on the back....

(phew hope no one noticed i didn't RTFA!)

Re:just one little thing...

[DaVince21]

For some reason I read that as "WHAT NINE THOUSAND!"

NotionInk Adam

[pavon]

If reading documents is one of your main uses for a tablet, then you should keep an eye out for the Adam by NotionInk.

It will be (one of ?) the first shipping device to use the PixelQi transflective display, which is an improvement of the OLPC display. It is a reflective display, like eInk, but with fast refresh rates like LCD. It also can display color which is far more saturated than color eInk (although not as good as LCD), as well as switching to ultra-high resolution greyscale.

The Adam uses the Tegra Chipset (ARM Cortex A9 + Nvidia graphics), and they are advertizing 16 hours of HD video playback, compared to 9 on the iPad.
It will run Android, and will be an open development environment. It was demo at recent trade shows, and is definitely not vaporware.

Re:NotionInk Adam

[TheKidWho]

iPad gets 10 hours of battery life and Anandtech did a test showing it getting 13.6 hours of battery life playing Video in a loop.

Problem with the Adam is that it won't be released for another 6 months at best and the fact that it's a small time Indian company. They won't be getting the content producers lining up for them like Apple has, Google might have that kind of clout however.

Re:NotionInk Adam

[NatasRevol]

And every time the company mentions it, they're pushing back the introduction another quarter.

http://www.notionink.in/news.php

They haven't even finished the hardware or software for it - according to their own site! No way they're getting this out the door this year.
Heck, they even say to get an iPad now.

No, not vaporware at all. /sarcasm

Re:NotionInk Adam

[Anonymous Coward]

Or try the Admin by Coleco [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam] also works as a radiator.

Apple's gonna souix

[Anonymous Coward]

No way some german wannabe can use that name, no way Steve is gonna let that out.

hmm

[Tibor the Hun]

I'll sign up for a hundred of these, if only someone can point me to 3D renderings of it.

Re:hmm

[irreverant]

http://wepad.mobi/en

Re:hmm

[doti]

RTFpdf

This isn't it

[Anonymous Coward]

This post originally was very long. Forget all of that. Check it out. Atom processor with associated heat and fan noise and 6 hour battery life == FAIL. Sorry, dudes.

Wow

[Zelos]

More expensive, heavier and a shorter battery life? If you ship after your competitor aren't you supposed to ship something better? And shipping with OpenOffice is meant to be a good thing?

Name change please...

[Anonymous Coward]

iPad, WePad, we all pad for Apple sounding products!

Okay it doesn't quite work but I couldn't think of how to end it.

Next we'll hear that Nintendo has announced WiiPad and all will be confused.

Re:Name change please...

[edalytical]

Nah. It's called the DSi XL. I think that means dual screen with an 'i' as in an eye (a camera) and it is now extra large. Maybe they could change it to iDSXL or WiiDSXL or WiiLSX (Will Suck haha). Personally I already own two Lites, does that make it a QS Lite?

Need ARM not Atom

[SgtChaireBourne]

Agreed. Atom is not appropriate for mobile devices like WePad. This really calls for ARM.

Support for Linux, Air, and Android Apps?

[magister159]

I think that the most interesting part of it is that it supports Linux, Adobe Air and Android apps all on the same operating system.

What kind of compatibility layer are they using? Is it a custom Linux distro with some android compatibility built in, or is it Android and they figured out how to run X11 apps?

Re:Support for Linux, Air, and Android Apps?

[natehoy]

I'm gonna go with custom Linux distro. Android is based on Linux, so I'm assuming it can run X11 and has an Android-compatibility layer on top.

Someone Please Explain To Me....

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Could someone please explain to me the appeal of this tablet architecture? I personally find the need to keep hunching over my lap, desk, or table to stare down at papers terribly uncomfortable and annoying. That's part of the reason I stopped printing stuff and just do most of my work digitally nowadays. With a traditional desktop or laptop I can flip the screen up or set up an upright monitor. This allows me to square my shoulders, look straight ahead, and save my neck the hours of pain-inducing craning that college got me used to via handwritten homework. In other words, these tablets seem extraordinarily sucky in terms of ergonomics. While I am not one to traditionally complain, I really hate the idea of having a computer that I have to hunch over to use.

Perhaps I am missing something and these tablets are able to be stood on their side and operated efficiently while upright, but every demonstration I have seen shows folks hunched over with their shoulders forward, necks craned, and hands drawn inwards towards the small keyboard/input interface. How, in any way, are these devices so amazing as to sacrifice basic comfort and usability for them? Frankly I just don't see why anyone would want to use these over a traditional laptop or, hell, even one of those hybrid tablet PC devices that allow for use in both flip-down and flip-up modes.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[pavon]

Here is how I think of it. Tablet:eBook reader as SmartPhone:Cellphone.

When I first got a cellphone, it was nice, but there were many areas for improvement. I would enter a phone number into my address book on the phone, and then into my real address book as well. Wouldn't it be nice if the phone address books was fully featured enough that I could do away with my real address book, or relegate it to a backup copy. In general, wouldn't it be nice if it could do everything my palm pilot could do?

The same thing happens with the eBook reader. It sure is convenient for reading eBooks, but it would be nice if it had better annotation features, and a good web-browser for content that isn't in eBook format. And sometimes I don't feel like reading, so playing games or watching movies would be nice too.

Laptops (event the hybrid tablets) are horrible for reading - they are too heavy, hot, and don't have good displays for the job (although neither does the iPad). It isn't that tablets or smart phones are intended to replace the PC, it is that they are useful for certain types of interaction. Given that they will exist to serve these niches, it is a no-brainer to allow allowing third-party developers to write additional software to push the format to it's greatest potential.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[natehoy]

The tablet is the same form-factor as a clipboard. You can hold it with one hand while standing and use the other hand to do things on it (similar to writing on a clipboard while standing). You can sit up in bed, fold your legs up to about 45 degrees, and use it that way. You can also sit on the couch and hold it in place. Placing it on a desk and trying to input data into it is going to be a nightmare for most people. They'll enter their data on a real computer and send it to a tablet for final editing or just to present it.

You are thinking of a tablet as a "content production" device (lots of typing and data input). In general, it's not good at that. A tablet is a content consumption device. Surf to YouTube, maybe type in a short search, then click on what you want and sit back and watch. It's for passive consumption, not active participation.

It's more akin to a really cool interactive television set than it is a computer.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Huh. Well I suppose that's a decent enough explanation. It still seems like a flip up screen or some kind integrated, fold out prop up (like a standing picture frame) would significantly improve it.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[colinrichardday]

The tablet is the same form-factor as a clipboard. You can hold it with one hand while standing and use the other hand to do things on it (similar to writing on a clipboard while standing). You can sit up in bed, fold your legs up to about 45 degrees, and use it that way. You can also sit on the couch and hold it in place. Placing it on a desk and trying to input data into it is going to be a nightmare for most people. They'll enter their data on a real computer and send it to a tablet for final editing or just to present it.

And how could you not use a laptop for this? Even standing and typing (one-handed, holding the laptop with the other) can be done on a laptop.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[natehoy]

You could, but it's not as convenient.

The niche is a small one, but it's there. Netbooks, with their incredibly light weight, help bridge that gap somewhat.

I have little use for a tablet myself, but I can see certain places where they are more convenient (especially for content consumption) than a laptop. Reading a book, sitting/lying in bed watching a show or surfing the web, etc.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[colinrichardday]

Reading a book, sitting/lying in bed watching a show or surfing the web, etc.

You can't put a laptop on your lap in bed?

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[natehoy]

Sure you could. It's just not as comfortable as a tablet format. But it would work.

The tablet format would appeal to people who spend a lot of time surfing the web while sitting in a chair, or sitting up in bed, or things like that.

It's useless to people who want to input a lot of text until we figure out something better than a keyboard, and it's largely useless to those who want one computer to do everything. But as a "sitting around in the La-Z-Boy surfin the web" device it's ideal.

Some will still prefer a laptop or a netbook for those applications, and you can sit with one of those and be comfortable too.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[colinrichardday]

The tablet format would appeal to people who spend a lot of time surfing the web while sitting in a chair, or sitting up in bed, or things like that.

People keep saying this, but I still have issues. If I'm sitting in a chair, I can rest the laptop on my lap while the screen is more vertical, meaning that I don't have to tilt my head so far down. If I have a tablet, I either have to tilt it up or keep my head down. A tablet may be better if you're standing up.

Re:Someone Please Explain To Me....

[natehoy]

I read in my easy chair and in bed, and to me a tablet is similar in format to a hardcover book. In my easy chair, I kick the footrest up and rest my feet on the top of it, so the book is held at a very natural and comfortable angle for reading and I hold very little weight in my hands.

I also draw while resting in the same position, with a piece of 1/2" plywood as a hard surface.

Having said all that, I have little use for a tablet myself. And I have no use for a larger iPod Touch. I do find the whole concept of a tablet somewhat appealing for reading, but on the other hand, I could get a Kindle and a Netbook for about what the iPad costs. :)

ba. the main limit of ipad is software

[johncandale]

Ba I say. The most limiting part of the ipad is lack of support for non approved 3d party apps and old favorites (and files) from windows, Linux is just as or even more obscure in the software development area as the apple app store offers are now. Choice between this and Ipad. Ipad will win every time

Wow!

[alphax45]

After reading the PDF I have two words: Me want!

After reading the specs PDF...

[Anonymous Coward]

... will the WePad be available in Englisch?

Great choice of names...

[kaizendojo]

Why not just call it a "Depends"able Computer with plenty of "Poise"?

(Man, and I thought the iPad was a bad choice.)

laptop?

[Gothmolly]

At that price, why not just get a laptop?

The iPad as a portable music player?

[nemeosis]

... and you may use 'any application that pleases you' to play music and video, a clear edge over Apple's limitation to iTunes."

Please explain to me the logic or rationality behind using the iPad as a portable music player. Seriously. Is anyone going to really plug into the iPad while they are running on the treadmill? Or maybe it's better to use it as a desktop music player?

Although, admitedly, I would like to view my XviD movie files and have access to an expandable SD Card. I am already hit the 16 GB limitation of the internal storage.

So far, all I am interested in using it for is to read my PDF books, do some light web surfing, read news via iPad news apps, or stream a quick Netflix.

The 10 hour battery life on it is fantastic. The thing practically lasts all day. The $500 price point practically kills the Nook and Kindle as an eBook reader.

Re:The iPad as a portable music player?

[Joe Tie.]

Seriously. Is anyone going to really plug into the iPad while they are running on the treadmill?

I use wireless headphones with the iphone. All the standard music controls work fine just controlling it over bluetooth. I think someone would be nuts to use a wired system with the ipad, but I think doing it wireless should work fine. The only slight downside is that it can be a bit finicky when trying to get it working with some non-itunes content. But for the most part it's worked great.

Although, admitedly, I would like to view my XviD movie files and have access to an expandable SD Card. I am already hit the 16 GB limitation of the internal storage.

You might see if orb works for you. I've only played around with it a little bit since I'm mostly running linux at home. And it's pretty fragile under wine at the moment. But it did seem to do a good job of transcoding and streaming xvid encoded avi files to my iphone.

When's the Wii pad come out?

[filesiteguy]

Donkey Kong vs. Mario on a tablet!!

Seriously, I can see this being a possibility, but am not going to hold my breath. Just watch - some manufacturer will never go for the idea of a Linux-based tablet.

In other news...

[Firemouth]

A swedish company is coming out with the WeeWeePad. It has a liquid touch pad that alerts you when it detects moisture. Designed for potty training, the WeeWeePad will come in models ranging in sizes. The smallest suitable for Dogs and Cats, while the largest ones are suitable for handling compulsive bed wetters. Ladies and gentlemen, the WeeWeePad!

Obligatory...

[d474]

This is the year of the Linux Tablet!

Re:Obligatory...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. Next year will always the be year of Linux on the tablet.

Re:Obligatory...

[gmuslera]

Somewhat, it was, Started with the N900 tablet, and could end with several atom/cellphone tablets running Meego and Android. Who knows, maybe in absolute numbers that bunch adds up close to ipad sales.

The iPad is not about hardware, but software

[Mojo66]

It's certainly not that hard to come up with a tablet computer that has better specs than the iPad. But I doubt that currently a Linux-based OS exists that supports touch input the way the iPhone OS does. This would require much more effort than a small company like Neofonie could handle.

The WePad will compare to the iPad like the Windows PC compares to a Mac: strong hardware running poorly written software. The only difference is that this is not the 80s and the WePad doesn't have IBM backing it up....so my bet is that this will end in epic fail.

Re:The iPad is not about hardware, but software

[dhobbit]

x86 is not strong hardware, it wasn't in the 80's and it's not now. ARM is so much better in the performance per watt game.

Helmut-Hoffer-von-Ankershoffen-Pad . . .

[PolygamousRanchKid]

. . . WePad is a pretty lame name. Why didn't name it after himself: Helmut-Hoffer-von-Ankershoffen-Pad?

Maybe he will get some inspiration from Monty Python ( http://www.swiss-miss.com/2007/08/the-german-baro.html ) for his next model, and call it:

Johann Gambolputty-de-von-Ausfern-schplenden-schlitter-crass-cren-bon-fried-digger-dingle-dangle-dongle-dungle-burstein-von-knacker-thrasher-apple-banger-horowitz-ticolensic-grander-knotty-spelltinkle-grandlich-grumblemeyer-spelter-wasser-kurstlich-himble-eisenbahnwagen-guten-abend-bitte-ein-nürnburger-bratwürstel-gespurten-mitz-weimache-luber-hundsfut-gumeraber-schönendanker-kalbsfleisch-mittleraucher-von-Hautkopft of Ulm . . . Pad.

Scene in Internet Cafe:

Waitress: "Hey, ist das ein iPad?"

Customer: "Nein, das ist ein Helmut-Hoffer-von-Ankershoffen-Pad!"

Waitress: "Oh, woulden you liken your Helmut-Hoffer-von-Ankershoffen-Pad mit our WLANen usen?"

Customer: "Ja, I woulden liken mein Helmut-Hoffer-von-Ankershoffen-Pad . . . "

. . . etc . . . und so weiter . . .

Wow, what will Nokia's upcoming Maemo N9000 be called . . . ?

Correction

[uberjack]

"A German company, Neofonie GmbH, has set out to provide an alternative to the iPad, according to Neofonie's founder, Helmut Hoffer von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm? To do justice to this man, thought by many to be the greatest name in German Baroque music, we present a profile of Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm."

Where are the cries of...

[Cogneato]

The mid-hundreds is too expensive, it needs to be $100-200?

and the cries of...

The pad/tablet market is not viable and this will die...

Oh wait, those cries are saved for Apple products. Linux products of the same type and the same general price are brilliant!

Re:Where are the cries of...

[NekSnappa]

Lets not forget, "It's too big to fit in my pocket."

Only competes with expensive, underpowered tablets

[EMG at MU]

Just because it can run flash doesn't mean it should run flash. Or java for that matter. Also, how much RAM is in it? I'm assuming that in the PDF they mean storage when they say memory. Is there a gpu? If not, do you want to waste all of your battery life having your cpu process that flash video? Completely off topic: but where is Wireless USB? Aren't tablets a perfect platform for using wireless usb?

Not clones, just timing.

[pavon]

There were a ton of tablet prototypes shown at CES this year, months before the iPad was announced. Everyone and their mother independently came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing after the success of netbooks.

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[Super Marx Brothers]

There were a ton of tablet prototypes shown at CES this year, months before the iPad was announced. Everyone and their mother independently came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing after the success of netbooks.

Tablet computers; the wave of the future.(Future brought to you by the 24th century's Personal Access Display Device)

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[DragonWriter]

There were a ton of tablet prototypes shown at CES this year, months before the iPad was announced. Everyone and their mother independently came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing after the success of netbooks.

Actually, I think everyone and their mother came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing, given the both the success of netbooks and e-book readers, with tablets being sold as "good enough" at both the kind of light computing that netbooks are largely used for and at e-book reading, with typical entry prices competitive with high-end netbooks or mid-range e-readers (or, perhaps more relevantly, with the price of a cheap netbook plus a cheap e-reader.)

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet how many are available now?

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[Facegarden]

There were a ton of tablet prototypes shown at CES this year, months before the iPad was announced. Everyone and their mother independently came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing after the success of netbooks.

Actually it was the same month.

But still, I am really looking forward to the HP Slate!

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, everyone and their mother independently came to the conclusion that tablets were going to be the next big thing BEFORE the success of netbooks too. They were wrong then.

Re:Not clones, just timing.

[pavon]

This current crop is different. The previous tablets were just laptops minus the keyboard (or full laptops with a rotating display), which weighed as much as a laptop, cost more than a laptop, and ran a mostly standard version of Windows. This current crop about to be released are lightweight, inexpensive, and run customized software (some of which may be worse for the job than a desktop OS, but some will be better).

You comment is akin to saying that there were ultrasmall notebooks in the past, therefore the netbook was bound to fail.

iPad specs better.

[dhobbit]

Well based on the spec sheet I'd have to go iPad. I'll take a 1ghz ARM over an Atom any day. Plus its lighter.

That's not why.

[Civil_Disobedient]

everyone puts up with it because of it's ubiquity

No, everyone puts up with it because:

1. Unlike everything else on the web, It Works.
2. Define works? Sure, no problem. It handles:
   • Vector animation
   • MP3 support
   • MP4 support
   • TrueType fonts

   ...all out-of-the box.

3. Define works, in developer terms? Sure!
   • You don't have to fix cross-browser issues. It is truly write-once, play-anywhere
   • If you know JavaScript, you know ActionScript

As of 2010, these bullet points have all been true for nearly fifteen years. Meanwhile, HTML5 will still be playing second-fiddle even when the language is completely formalized (no fonts, MP4 is questionable, MP3 is questionable, and you'll still have to test twenty different versions and have plenty of hacks up your sleeve to get everything to look correct across all platforms & browsers).

Re:That's not why.

[gyrogeerloose]

everyone puts up with it because of it's ubiquity

No, everyone puts up with it because:

1. Unlike everything else on the web, It Works.

Of course, also unlike everything else on the Web, it crashes my browser about 40% of the time. That that's also been true for nearly fifteen years.

I installed ClickToFlash as soon as I was aware of it's existence and find I don't miss Flash at all. I certainly don't miss having to restart my browser regularly.

Re:That's not why.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm don't know about you but flash still sucks. I can't use it. I don't have Adobe's product to create flash content. It isn't 'all over'. It is limited. Despite it being used widely it still is limited to advertising largely and badly designed introduction type marketing pages. Few sites that actually do anything use it.

Re:That's not why.

[Baki]

It is just unacceptable that you need a proprietary plugin for essential functionality on the web, which otherwise is supposed to be open and adhere to published standards.

Just the existence of something like flash takes away pressure to come to truely standardized solutions for whatever functionality is deemed essential. However, do not forget that the web is not supposed to exactly determine how a page looks; the rendering is up to the client and its preferences. Content providers should say goodbye to the idea of total control on the detailed looks (otherwise you might even move to a web that consists only of PDF pages, what a horror that would be).

I am sure that, once flash is dead, there will be enough incentive to come to open standards for whatever functionality is lacking. Just like happened with the rest of w3c standards. The only real saboteur was microsoft which has refused to adhere to standards for strategic reasons. Now that they have lost their dominance, they can no longer afford to do this.

Re:That's not why.

[Oldstench]

Then your browser must suck.

Re:That's not why.

[IICV]

So remind me again how I bookmark a specific place in a Flash applet?

Re:That's not why.

[Civil_Disobedient]

Sure thing.

If you're using Firefox, you click the Bookmarks menu, and select "Bookmark this Page." You can also use the CTRL-D hotkey.

IE operates similarly, except in IE they call them Favorites.

WePad developer admits false info during pressconf

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubts about the German Tablet Computer WePad: Contrary to information provided by the WePad makers ran the Windows operating system on the mini-PC and not Linux, as it was presented at a press conference in Berlin. This was confirmed by one of the two WePad developers, Helmut Hoffer of Ankershoffen, in the online network Facebook.

German:
http://de.news.yahoo.com/2/20100413/tbs-wepad-entwickler-raeumt-falsche-anga-f41e315.html

Google translate:
http://translate.google.de/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.news.yahoo.com%2F2%2F20100413%2Ftbs-wepad-entwickler-raeumt-falsche-anga-f41e315.html&sl=de&tl=en

How can you say HTML5 is awesome?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you seriously state that HTML5 is "awesome" when NONE of the major browsers support it well at this time?

I recently saw an HTML5-compliance testing site. The latest developer version of Chrome got a mere 97 out of 160. The latest version of Opera got 102. The Firefox nightly I tried was at 73. IE8 was at 12.

What's worse, none of them support the same subset! So no matter which HTML5 features you use, you're excluding a large number of users.

It'll take all of the major vendors several years to fully implement it, and the most significant vendor of all, Microsoft, might just choose not to, which pretty much fucks Mozilla/Apple/Google/Opera.

Even when it is fully supported, HTML5 won't be "ubiquitous" until 2017 to 2018, at the earliest, and that's even with major sites pushing it. HTML5 is best classified as a failure at this point.

I'm an Open Source bigot. No question about it.

[PinchDuck]

I have Linux on my laptop, and run XP virtually if I need to do Windows development. My server is running Linux. I own (though no longer use) the Sharp Zaurus. The thing that nearly has me shelling out dough for the iPad, though, is the 10 hour battery life. Users are actually reporting longer life than that, which is amazing. It beats the nearest competitor by almost 5 hours. Until someone comes out with a product that can compete at that level, with that form factor (I like the larger size) and a similar feature set, I will have this in my sights. I'm not going to purchase one for about a year, though, so maybe something just as good or better will come out by the time I'm ready to buy something.

What if I like iTunes?

[Anonymous Coward]

"and you may use 'any application that pleases you' to play music and video..."

That application would be iTunes for me and millions upon millions of others...

Nothing with the word Linux will Rival the iPad

[Phizzle]

It can be better, faster, hotter, smaller, sexier, but it will not be accepted by the consumer world outside of the Slashdot audience and not "rival" Apple in measurable financial way. Not trolling here, just the honest truth - general public doesn't care if something is "better" - anything associated with Apple has immediate press and street cred, and anything containing the word Linux has immediate press and street stigma. Sad really.

Re:Nothing with the word Linux will Rival the iPad

[mrwolf007]

and anything containing the word Linux has immediate press and street stigma.

Not true.
Was already in the news of the biggest radio station in germany.

Re:Nothing with the word Linux will Rival the iPad

[cupantae]

That doesn't matter to the company. Will people please stop thinking that every company who makes a tablet computer is trying to "beat" Apple? They just want to make some money. That's all that counts. If there's a large market, and they take a small bite out of it, it will have been worth the effort.

imagine a cluster...

[leuk_he]

A beowulf cluster of these wepad. Would be a great borg computer.

WAIT... i exited my time machine 5 years too late.. I go back posting the obvious in 2005...

Re:ba. the main limit of ipad is software

[natehoy]

3d party apps? I would have thought the form factor would limit it to 2d. (snare drum)

Why would anybody want one of these?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't imagine any sane person buying one of these over an iPad. It's more expensive, uses Linux apps that aren't even designed or optimized for a touch screen (Open Office on a tablet? Like that will be usable!), and won't have any decent software marketplace other than the Android Market, which is half-baked compared to Apple's store. The HP Slate and even the Courier (if it ever comes out) will be much better choices. If you're dead set on suffering with an Android tablet, almost any of the other choices coming out over the next year would suit you better -- if anything, nearly all of them are planned to cost less than an iPad.

Not only that, I can't get over the really stupid name. iPad is bad enough, but WePad makes their device sound like nothing more than a ripoff... actually, considering the WePad pretty much is a ripoff, maybe the name is appropriate after all.

Are you storing Adobe flash on your VAX?

[Aqualung812]

...is not really something you want to hear as a decision maker who's heavily invested in the format...

The same could be said of VAX/WANG systems. I don't care if we're "heavily invested in the format". If that format is preventing me from reaching 66% of the mobile browser market , then I better become un-invested in that format. Quickly.

400k sold through as of last week.

[SuperKendall]

No doubt they sold tons of iPads, but there weren't 300,000 in the hands of customers on day one.

But there are 400k of them in hands now. You can nitpick about day one sales all you like, but in the 4.0 announcement Apple stated 400k were sold through - not sitting in stores, but in custom hands. That was a few days ago.

Re:400k sold through as of last week.

[dfghjk]

Calling someone out on a lie isn't nitpicking. Apple hasn't had any single day iPad sales of 300,000 no matter how you view it. They didn't sell 300K on their first day of presales, they didn't sell 300K of first day of store sales, and delivery of 300K's worth of presales doesn't count toward first day sales.

400K in one month is a LOT different than 300K in one day. They won't sell 400K more next month, much less the 10 million/month run rate the original fanboy was suggesting.

Re:400k sold through as of last week.

[justinb26]

Calling someone a liar, because you redefined their words to suit your needs, is kind of a douchebag move.

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20100405/apple-300000-ipads-sold-on-first-day/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ipad+first+day+sales

The industry uses the term "sold" pretty consistently to cover both direct distribution to end-users and distribution to retail channels. Again, you don't get to decide what the words mean. In the context it was used, the figure is absolutely correct.

Also, 450k in one WEEK* is also a LOT different than 400k in one MONTH. If you're going to go around being an asshole, at least be accurate.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-08/apple-unveils-iphone-program-says-450-000-ipads-sold-update1-.html

* - By week, of course I mean 5 days. Note the date on the article. Redefining words is FUN :)

So Right, yes So Wrong...

[SuperKendall]

I generally agree with your post except in one regard - tablets are most definatley NOT consumption oriented devices. The lower power of the iPad works because the OS gets all of the crap out of the way you need in more general purpose OS'es.

But over time, you'll see that tablets can and will be far more than simple consumption devices, and will be very, very good at input of all sorts. Drawing is the most obvious example that works today, but others will follow.

Re:So Right, yes So Wrong...

[Culture20]

over time, you'll see that tablets can and will be far more than simple consumption devices, and will be very, very good at input of all sorts. Drawing is the most obvious example that works today, but others will follow.

Drawing doesn't work well on an iPad. Yes, I've tried. It's no Wacom.
It's not very,very good at virtual keyboard input either. It's actually slightly worse than my iPhone.

Re:So Right, yes So Wrong...

[WilyCoder]

"It's not very,very good at virtual keyboard input either. It's actually slightly worse than my iPhone."

As an owner of both an iPhone and an iPad, you're opinion is invalid.

Re:So Right, yes So Wrong...

[Culture20]

As an owner of both an iPhone and an iPad, you're opinion is invalid.

As an owner of an iPhone an a sysadmin responsible for "setting up" an iPad, your use of "you're" is incorrect.

The RDF must be more powerful than I can imagine

[ClosedSource]

Perhaps you were speaking metaphorically, but most people would consider that getting it "in front of customers" would require that the device was actually physically available.

Or perhaps the fact that you didn't know the iPad wasn't going to be introduced first has you backtracking your argument.

In the glorious tradition

[Anonymous Coward]

Meine Herren! You have chosen an übercool nameplay - The WePad, a name showing the world that Linux is about collaboration and the name is also an indicator that the user is not ego centric, this is not another iThis or iThat.... however iLoveIt - Keep on rocking!!

Talk is cheap

[Snaller]

Lets seem the do it.

Re:Talk is cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

Too me!

damn teabaggers

[commodoresloat]

always bitching about their right to bear ARM

Flash - everywhere you don't want to be

[SuperKendall]

Flash is indeed everywhere.

But I've found the number of places where something I WANT to see is not in Flash, is in practice very small. I installed Click-To-Flash about a year ago because I could no longer handle the omnipresence of flash ads.

Now I like ads on sites, because I like to see sites with content I enjoy stick around. But flash ads were everywhere, distracting and sucking up CPU. Finally I said, ENOUGH!, and flash was blocked except when I needed to see content.

You know what? I can still browse, read news, etc. just fine. There are a few things I have to turn on flash for but I think over the past few months it has been a handful. Flash is simply not needed in the general case to use mot of the internet, despite as you say the fact it is "everywhere".

Re:The RDF must be more powerful than I can imagin

[Altus]

What part of my point (that mindshare and customer awareness is extremely important to sales and Apple has a huge advantage there.) are you actually disagreeing with?

Year of...

[Haxzaw]

2010, year of Linux on the tablet!

duh!

[formfeed]

The WePad might be larger, but it holds more.

You could still get an iPad for lighter days.

archos 5 IT has android/linux, archos 9 has win7

[Anonymous Coward]

big deal, the Archos 5 Android internet tablet http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5it/internet.html,

from archos website: "Possibilities beyond Android with the ‘Dual OS’

Just like a PC, the ARCHOS 5 Internet Tablet can be freely programmed in alternative ways in addition to the applications that can be created for the Android platform. To have total control of your Internet Tablet, ARCHOS has opened up this device, thus allowing creative minds to program their own tablet, or create what could be the tablet of the future.

Skilled developers and programmers can now choose to switch over to a true standard Linux environment as offered by the Ångström Linux distribution. Developers can put this on their ARCHOS 5 Internet Tablet devices and join other enthusiasts who are experimenting with various ideas and interfaces based on the Linux operating system. "

Specs:
Display characteristics High resolution touch screen, 800x480 pixels, 4.8'' TFT LCD, 16 million colors
User interface Touch screen, ON/OFF, vol+ and vol- buttons, retractable virtual keyboard
Processor(s) Central Unit:

* Main processor: ARM CortexTM-A8, 32 bit, In-order, dual-issue, superscalar core @ 800 MHz
* Additional processor: 32 bit DSP @ 430 MHz

RAM memory 256 MB* (Low-Power Double Data Rate SDRAM)
Mass storage memory Flash Memory: 8 to 32 GB* + Micro SD Slot (SDHC compatible)
Hard Drive: 160 to 500 GB*
Operating system Android v1.6 Donut - enabling application installation or development

In its normal use mode, the ARCHOS 5 being a miniaturized Personal Computer:

Program language C - requires special developer-edition firmware15
Connectivity On board WiFi (802.11 b/g/n), USB 2.0 host with optional accessories
PC accessories Possible attachment of numerous standard USB PC accessories (keyboard, mouse, memory key, memory cards reader, camera and other future computer accessories)
Others applications Webbrowser, Email, Contacts, DroidIn, EbuddyIM, Twidroid, Deezer, Dailymotion, Quickpedia, ThinkFree Mobile, Moov, Craigsphone, Pages jaunes (only for France), High Paying Jobs (only for US & Canada), Alarm clock, Calculator...
Interfaces USB 2.0: Media Transport Protocol (MTP)
USB 2.0 Host: Mass Storage Class (MSC) and Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP) with optional Mini Dock, Battery Dock and DVR station
Micro SD (SDHC compatible) on ARCHOS 5 Internet Tablet 8 to 32 GB
Add-on connectors to connect to the DVR Station and other ARCHOS add-ons
Communication protocols WiFi (802.11 b/g/n)
Bluetooth 2.0 A2DP, EDR, ARCP, HID, Dial Networking
FM transmitter (requires the Car-mount that features the antenna)
FM receiver (RDS)
Video Codecs 7 MPEG-4 HD (up to 720p)
MPEG-48 (ASP@L5 AVI, up to DVD resolution)
H.264 HD (up to 720p)
WMV (MP@ML, up to DVD resolution) including WMV protected files
MKV (up to 720p, 2500kbs, 23fps
M-JPEG (Motion JPEG Video) in QVGA resolution

With optional plug-in (downloadable from your tablet or on www.archos.com):
Cinema: MPEG-2, WMV HD (720p), VOB
Audio codecs 7 Stereo MP3 decoding @ 30-320 Kbits/s CBR & VBR,
WMA, Protected WMA, WAV (PCM/ADPCM), AAC9(except protected content),
AAC+ stereo audio files
OGG Vorbis
FLAC
With optional software plug-ins (downloadable from your tablet or on www.archos.com):
AC3 stereo audio and 5.1 sound files (via SPDIF output of DVR Station )
Photo viewer 10 JPEG, BMP, PNG, GIF
Subtitles Support subtitles files with .srt, .ssa, .smi, .sub extensions
Video recording 11 Via the optional DVR Station or DVR Snap-on. Records NTSC/PAL/SECAM in MPEG-4 AVI format with stereo sound, VG

Re:The RDF must be more powerful than I can imagin

[ClosedSource]

If you keep eliminating parts of your original point, I'm sure that you'll eventually come up with an argument that nobody disagrees with.

That's not the hands of jobs

[SuperKendall]

"These aren't the missing features you're looking for", Steve Jobs waves his hand.

It's not the hand of Jobs waving, it's the invisible hand of the market waving good-bye. More and more people need SOME solution that does not involve Flash, businesses will have to provide or lose out.

There are growing

[SuperKendall]

3 years later, AppleTV is a niche market that Apple has all but abandoned.

It's a niche to be sure but Apple just released an update for the device... it's far from abandoned. It's simply not a primary concern.

whoosh

[nomadic]

How can you even be on Slashdot and post something that ignorant?

How can you even be on Slashdot and misinterpret what I said? Oh wait, that's par for the course here.

Linux was designed for x86 architecture; while it was ported for mobile use it still has plenty of legacy elements of that, for example its memory footprint and the fact that it's not a good real time operating system.

Or are you honestly going to claim that if someone was building an embedded operating system from scratch they would follow the UNIX model? If you are, then we're too far apart here, there's probably nothing I can tell you to make you believe otherwise.

Re:whoosh

[colinrichardday]

And Linux was ported to Alpha, its second processor, in what, 1994? There's also a SPARC port. And a zSeries port. That's why Thompson wrote the second version of UNIX in C, so that it could easily be ported across hardware.

Apple just changed the perspective

[k2r]

Everyone who still builds a iPad/tablet-like device where the PCB is bigger than the battery didn't get the idea.
Most important facts about a tablet are UI (includes display, usability and responsiveness) and availability/connectedness (includes battery capacity, WLAN/WWAN). So getting rid of flash is necessary.

(And I still think that video-chat on a tablet without at least excellent optical image stabilizer was pointless. You had to put the device down and then it would be like talking to somebody with double chin sitting in a hole under your desk...)

Re:Marketplace

[Anonymous Coward]

The "marketplace" is nothing new, linux has had something similar for years it's just that apple dressed it up to look pretty and marketed it well..

The wepad is bigger and heavier than the ipad while having inferior battery life, and seems to have vents at the top suggesting it gets quite hot. I would rather have an open arm based tablet, ipad like hardware and open software...

On the subject of software, for anything like this to succeed it needs to have a slick interface, all the previous tablets i've used had really lousy interfaces, typically just desktop interfaces that don't work well on a tablet.

I agree with the dressing up the marketplace analogy. Linspires CNR was very good and worked very well.

F/OSS community: STOP THIS MADNESS

[recharged95]

Does the word, OpenMoko come to mind?

Sure, downrank me all you want F/OSS fanboys. But in the end, this is just larger Freerunner. And we know how that effort ended. I want to see something innovative from the community, not another attempt at a free copy/option.

(Former freerunner hacker that crashed and burned)

Shhhhhhhhhh,

[aussersterne]

that kind of truth won't make you any friends here. We don't care how usable a device's features actually are, we only care that there are 2394872672304 features listed on the website, and that it can theoretically be used to run a webserver and tunnel a remote desktop through ssh (even if in practice this takes hours of fiddling to accomplish and is forgotten afterward in a day).

They're going to tell you that the customer

[aussersterne]

is a brainwashed zombie. I get that all the time in geek circles as an iPhone owner. Apple has clearly satiated me with their special sauce. I am a serial sedatee, my mind has been softened by Steve, etc.

Once you get into "If you like it, that's just because you've been body-snatched!" territory, that's when you know that people harbor irrational prejudices.

I am a gadget true believer that was always disappointed before the iPhone. From the Palm Pilot through the Fujitsu Stylistics through the CE touchscreen machines through the Treo and Blackberry phones, since the early '90s I've spent money every year at least hoping that finally one mobile device would actually deliver on the obvious promise of the "personal digital assistant." Until iPhone, none of them ever did. The technology was always there, but the execution was frustratingly missing and the user interfaces were frustratingly adept at frustrating your attempts to use them. They were clumsy, fiddly, endlessly configurable to do everything but work the way you wanted them to, slow, awkward, and ultimately always embarrassing when you tried to use them ("Oh, that's not in there yet, I haven't synchronized" or "Hang on, getting there, getting there, just gotta navigate to the right screen..." or "It usually works" or "That page is too complicated for this device" or "Sorry, my battery ran flat" or, or, or...)

I held off three years in getting and iPhone and when I did get one it was more or less by accident. Within 24 hours I was shocked and hooked. I had, for the first time, experienced what it's like to have a "personal digital assistant" that works for you, rather than a personal digital taskmaster that makes you work for it, in pale hopes of some return in efficiency that never materializes.

One of my best friends has a Droid. Looks like the same thing in some ways, and superficially feels like the same thing. But watch him fiddle with it, hunt and hunt for apps, tweak and manage, and watch me just use. Not at all the same thing after all.

And yet people who don't own iPhones continue to talk about brainwashing.

I suppose absolutely falling in love with what something contributes to your life is the most effective form of brainwashing out there.

Re:They're going to tell you that the customer

[Belial6]

I have an Android and an iPhone sitting right here. The reason you are confused is because the iPhone is an OK phone. It just isn't a great phone. It has, and has had major problems. You get mocked because you rave about a product that is only adequate. iPhone fans generally take the stance that if the iPhone is missing a feature, then the feature is unnecessary and if the iPhone has a bug, then the bug is a feature. The iPhone was massively crash prone for a long time, it is extremely noisy to other device, the battery is not user replaceable, it has no expandable storage, it doesn't multitask, you cannot get a model with a physical keyboard, and it needs special software to put your own music on it.

These are all major failings. The iPhone doesn't suck, but it has real problems. If you say things to your friends like "experienced what it's like to have a "personal digital assistant" that works for you, rather than a personal digital taskmaster that makes you work for it, in pale hopes of some return in efficiency that never materializes.", it is no wonder that they mock you and believe you have been conned.

Comments like "But watch him fiddle with it, hunt and hunt for apps, tweak and manage, and watch me just use." when your talking about a device that requires special software be installed on a computer just to copy an mp3 over is at best being in denial.

Re:They're going to tell you that the customer

[Americano]

The iPhone was massively crash prone for a long time, it is extremely noisy to other device, the battery is not user replaceable, it has no expandable storage, it doesn't multitask, you cannot get a model with a physical keyboard, and it needs special software to put your own music on it.

Early mobile safari versions were certainly crash prone. Other than that, I don't recall ever feeling like my 1st gen iPhone - bought about 2 weeks after launch when my Treo running Windows CE/Mobile/Phone/Whatever-the-fuck-it's-called finally kicked the bucket - was "massively crash prone". In fact, it felt far more stable and responsive than the Treo it replaced, and a crash-prone browser was still far superior from that turd of a mobile IE that I had to use on the Treo.

I don't know what you mean by "extremely noisy to other device" - literally. The iPhone is silent for me... wondering what sort of noise you're hearing, because I never hear anything from the phone outside of the phone calls I'm making, and the music I'm playing.

Number of times I've ever bought a replacement battery for a cell phone I've owned: zero. User-replaceable battery isn't much of a concern for me. Perhaps it will be someday with my iPhone, but it hasn't even remotely been a concern so far.

Its lack of expandable storage was not an issue for me, its lack of a keyboard was actually preferable to me - typing on a blackberry with big fingers is an exercise in frustration, and having to use itunes in order to put music on it has never felt like all that much of a restriction to me.

The only "major failing" you noted that gave me pause when I purchased the phone was the lack of multitasking, and then I realized that I was essentially buying the phone to combine my treo with my ipod, and that all the other features were just bonuses, and so I realized that I probably wasn't ever going to run Office on the damn thing to type up a design document and need 8-way multitasking anyway.

The point of all this? Well, you said:

These are all major failings.

The point is this: These may be major failings for you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your requirements are universally accepted as "required" on a phone. If the iPhone doesn't do what you think it should, by all means don't buy it, and buy a phone that does the things you need a phone to do. Don't speak in absolutes when you're describing what are obviously personal & subjective impressions & experiences.

Re:They're going to tell you that the customer

[Belial6]

iPhone fans generally take the stance that if the iPhone is missing a feature, then the feature is unnecessary and if the iPhone has a bug, then the bug is a feature.

Your whole post is an exercise in what you were arguing against.

Re:They're going to tell you that the customer

[Americano]

Except you failed to notice the numerous references to "my" impressions and experiences, as opposed to speaking in the absolutes you used - which is the point I was arguing against.

You stated that all of these are "major failures," as a categorical fact; I am pointing out that they are neither categorical, nor fact - they are entirely subjective, and you would do yourself a service in remembering that. If you don't like the device, and it's not for you, great. That doesn't make it rife with "major failings," it makes it a "bad choice for you."

But if it makes you feel better: bazing! wow, you sure got me! I'm just an apple fanboi and will go get emo over some photos of my lord and master, Steve Jobs.

any application that pleases you?

[purplie]

'any application that pleases you' to play music and video

... does that include iTunes?

This is the kind of thing Apple gets.

[aussersterne]

I'm with you. I'm really wary of Apple's control over things, but have been flabbergasted at the usefulness of the iPhone. For so many years, we've had device makers simply executing poorly. They take five central features and water them down and/or give them short schrift, redirecting the time and resources toward five additional and less important features, just so they can claim 10 features on the side of the box.

A million billion years ago I had a Fujitsu Stylistic 1000 with a 486 CPU. I was telling people all they had to do was cut the thickness in half and multiply the battery life. But five years later, what was being made? Thick, heavy tablets with shitty battery life. What had they worked on in the meantime? Boosting processor speed and hard drive capacity. So you had a much faster heavy brick that died in two hours.

A similar thing went on in smartphone space. For a long time what we got was more speed, more memory, and more features. What we never got was web access that worked or any reasonable cloud storage or interaction, despite the fact that this was the most obvious use of the devices in question, if only the manufacturers would do something about it.

In both cases, only Apple has delivered. They actually made these things work. They have made them usable in a way that they never were before. And all many geeks can do is virulently foam at the mouth over the the fact that the features that no mobile user cares about aren't up to the same level as your average desktop, or (even more mind-boggling to me) the fact that there's no way to sit down and spend all day tweaking-configuring them to your heart's content (a.k.a. "openness," a.k.a. spending the next six days scouring the web for links to .EXE files to be installed during synchronization if you can find the version that's compatible with your particular configuration and actually get it to install, after which you must buy a $69.95 license for a tiny mobile app by visiting a slow shareware site and typing in your credit card information, followed by a long wait for a long email with an even longer serial number inside to be entered along with a pile of other relevant details into a difficult-to-find registration screen and follow this with a "WTF!? It crashed!? I register the application and the new unlocked features just CRASH IT!?").

It's because Apple is the poster child

[aussersterne]

of the post-Geek era.

Re:It's because Apple is the poster child

[Mr Bubble]

I think you are right, but I know plenty of geeks who are excited about programming for touch devices with all kinds of whiz bang sensors and core technologies all connected to a worldwide network - not to mention hundred million affluent users who have already entered in their credit card numbers. It's a geek's dream! - if they could stop whining.

Um, you're confused. You mean that one is

[aussersterne]

a 20-room mansion kitted out by an interior designer and a landscape architect with all of the latest forms of lighting and digitial controls, and happens to be in a gated community. The other comes as a pile of lumber theoretically big enough to build a 22-room mansion and a matching truckload of tools, some assembly required, and eschews the gated community for the diversity of an inner city neighborhood.

Android

[revjtanton]

Why not just say it's running Android? I don't see a tablet running Android being a victory for Linux. Is the nook a Linux victory too then?

Harsh words moron

[Anonymous Coward]

Calling someone out on a lie isn't nitpicking

Estimates are not lies asshole. You are a pretty poor loser.

Curious question

[voss]

How do you know what sluggish pieces of poop feel like?

Tuxpaint

[voss]

Does anyone other than me see the killer app for educational tablets?

Tuxpaint has been waiting 8 years for the creation of the computing tablet...

Watch your kids eyes light up when they can do electronic fingerpaint.

Why the hell...

[okmijnuhb]

Why in the hell does everyone come up with a copycat device, every time Apple develops a new gadget?
If I hear the phrase "iPad killer" I will be bored to tears by the poor marketing and lack of ingenuity of all these copycats.

The difference between

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for free costs a lot more.

--Woody Allen

Apple didn't invent the category

[pydev]

Obviously competitors have realized that it's worth it to come out with clone or me-too products much faster than they did in the past with the iPhone

Lightweight tablets like this have been in development for years. Apple neither invented the category nor the technology. Ditto with touch screen phones like the iPhone.

Apple's game is for Jobs to push his people to get out a well-engineered product a little faster than competitors. And Apple can also beat competitors to market because they are willing to charge a premium.

None of that has anything to do with "innovation", it's just a market segment and business strategy.

Re:

[cupantae]

...operating system choices....dull reasons for wanting things....irrelevant preferences....plans nobody cares to hear....

Sweet mother of FSM, say something INTERESTING!

Open?

[Infonaut]

Sure, Flash isn't proprietary. Ask any hundred Flash developers, and they'll all tell you about Tamarin, Gnash, and swfdec. They live by it.

Call for the patent wars

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so provoking looks and features. Let the patent wars begin! It will be interesting to see how this fight will end.

Will this end like the wars between "clone" and "real" PC machines? No youth today even knows what a clone PC means. Competition is just good for development. If Apple is trying to eliminate it's competitors, people will only get mad and forget Apple.

B.S.

[Belial6]

If your browser is crashing 40% of time that Flash is on the screen, you need to replace your hardware, or clean the viruses off your machine. I have never had Flash crash a single machine. I have never seen flash crash a single machine. My son plays flash games all the time, and at times has 20 windows open with different flash games running, leaves them running for days at a time, and has never had a crash from Flash. I don't doubt that your machine crashes all the time, but I call shenanigans on the claim that flash is crashing it.

Re:B.S.

[HybridST]

you need to replace your hardware, or clean the viruses off your machine. I have never had Flash crash a single machine. I have never seen flash crash a single machine.

Most of my flash-based crashed have to do with a pegged CPU overheating on an inspiron 710m. It gets dismantled, cleaned and reassembled regularly-poor airflow is a design fault with the model and can be alleviated somewhat with i8kfangui and the "Force fans to high speed" setting along with a monthly tear-down. My other systems are fine with Flash. Perhaps gyrogeerloose has a similar situation with an underpowered component such as a tired or choked fan, memory issues, overclocked hardware (this IS /. after all) or any of a host of other potential candidates. A "Stress Test" can potentially rule out any hardware poblem.

Just a thought, and not necessarily correct in this case.

Re:B.S.

[nitio]

For those not aware, ClickToFlash is a Safari plugin only for Mac OS X so OP was talking about his experience in his Mac.

As some of you know, Flash plugin in Mac is not bad. It's really bad. I have a Macbook which I dual boot with Windows 7. Same hardware, same shitty version of the Flash plugin - totally different experiences. Adobe does not make a good Flash plugin for Mac OS X. Period.

I'm sure Apple is to blame for this too, I've read somewhere in regards of some library/API for Quicktime that if Apple allowed Adobe to use could help improve hardware acceleration or something. Again, I'm not sure about this.

Re:B.S.

[Belial6]

That is a good catch. Of course, it still shows his poor reasoning/troubleshooting skills. What is the first thing different about his system than from the majority of peoples systems who have no problem running Flash? That's right. It is a Mac. As you said, it might be due to Apples restrictions on their software, or maybe his Mac isn't the premium hardware that he would like to believe, but in true Mac user fashion, he dismisses that the Mac itself could be the reason that things DONT "Just Work" on his Mac.

Just out of curiosity though, I just loaded up 6 windows, each running a flash game, on the Mac I have here to see if any of them crash. So far, they all loaded up fine, with no crashes. I'll let them run for a little while and see what happens.

Honestly, I think the poster is just lying, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he has crappy hardware, and doesn't understand computers well enough to understand why that matters.

Re:B.S.

[nitio]

I honestly never had any crashes with my normal use of Flash-based content that is merely varying from Youtube to one or two websites that insists in using Flash content (mostly restaurants). And I don't even use Apple's approved Safari, I use the good ol' beta Chrome.

Re:B.S.

[Belial6]

So, you confirm that the poster complaining about Flash crashing 40% of the time is either lying, or has some kind of unusual setup that is the real culprit. It is now an hour later, and the Flash running on my Mac in 6 windows is still running fine.

Conclusion: The user's computer is broken, and since he considers it impossible that a product from Apple could be the cause of crashes, Flash must be at fault.

Individualism vs Communism

[Anonymous Coward]

WePad makes sense anyway. It's both pun of iPad and illustrates the product - it's more for us and since it uses Linux it allows multiple user accounts, good privacy and better security. iPad only has a single user and not even a guest account.

Surely it's much more simple than that. It the proprietary and individualist 'I' vs the OSS and collective 'We'. Remember these are Europeans doing this who, as Glenn Beck reliably informs us, are all socialists!

Flash - remote exploit by any other name

[SgtChaireBourne]

But I've found the number of places where something I WANT to see is not in Flash,

Try using and encouraging use of real formats then. Many sites do offer at least MPEG as an option, but it may be slightly hidden.

Flash is pushed very hard by Adobe and a few known-nothing posers. That push adds up. If you want to see a return of regular video formats, then you'll have to be part of the push to keep them.

That means when you have a choice between sending around a Quicktime/MPEG/Vorbis link or a Flash link, don't send the link to the Flash encrusted video, send the link to the Quicktime/MPEG/Vorbis version. Same for Dirac or VP8.

That also means when you have a choice between sending around a link to a site, and you have a choice of sites, send the link to the site using Quicktime/MPEG/Vorbis/Dirac/VP8.

Another point to keep in mind is that Quicktime and MPEG run on all systems. Flash does not. If you want to keep your options open, then avoid Flash. Don't even start on the security problems inherent in Flash, it's comparable to products from M$. Using MPEG or Quicktime at least gives you a fighting chance of keeping the machine clean.

misleading summary

[Tom]

No, to be a rival, you have to address the same market.

A Linux tablet PC and the iPad address completely different markets. One goes for geeky people who want a small, portable multi-touch thing that they can hack at leisure. The other for people who want a media and content consumption device that simply works and stays out of your way.

They're not the same device. The number of people who really find it hard to decide between them is tiny. Probably about 50 grandmothers who can't afford an iPad but their granddaughter wants one, so the sales person at the computer store convince them this Linux pad thingy is mostly the same, for half the price.

Cultura

[hal1947]

While there are many interesting comments posted here it occurs to me that there is a cultural statement being made: "I" pad = USA "We"pad = Germany Just a thought.