Slashdot Mirror
Girl Seeks Help On Facebook During Assault
A 12-year-old girl who was being assaulted by her mother's ex-boyfriend used some quick thinking by sending a message on her iPod to a friend's Facebook account for help. The friend was able to contact the girl's mother who then contacted the police. 42-year-old Raymond Ernest Cesmat was arrested and charged with two counts of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree. He is being held at the Dakota County Jail on $175,000 bail.
The girl was raped and the guy left the room. It's not like Facebook saved the girl from being raped. She contacted her friend and requested she contact her mother, then she escaped and called her mother herself from a payphone, then the guy was arrested. There's not much of a Facebook tie-in.
rooooar
Current mood: Violated
Come on, he's 42 and she's a young hipster. He probably thought it was a bar of soap, not an iPod.
So glad the girl had the courage and skills to fight back and draw blood in what must've been a totally scary situation. Way to go!
Guy is a serious asshole. Prison inmates aren't kind to guys who go after kids.
"Cesmat, who has a sizable criminal history,"
The girl's mother is an idiot.
Better known as 318230.
This easily the best application that Facebook has ever been used for.
Yes, this isn't a Slashdot story, and no, this had nothing to do with Facebook as it could've been a text message instead for all it was.
But a kid was raped, and that's not so awesome that everyone should be hopping on the "lol rape jokes" bandwagon.
Let's just chalk this up to bad story moderation per editor, do our internal-pity-thing for the girl for a sec, and move on.
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
... Isn't that the opposite of how it usually works?
I'm 42 and probably more hip than you. Sent from my iPad sitting in Starbucks listening to Passion Pit.
I think the word you were searching for is "tool". iPads in Starbucks come under the heading "tool" rather than "hip". Although calling one's self "hip" is a qualification for "tool" designation as well.
Don't break your hip!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I'm in the 18 - 24 Demographic and ultimately have more hipness than anyone over 40 could ever possibly achieve.
It's not something thats up for debate or competition, thats just the way it is.
It's kind of like ketchup on eggs you know?
Yeah, I'm sure, you get it now, that was a great analogy.
He probably thought it was a bar of soap
I'm sure he'll have enough of those to worry about where he's going.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Rape by force is real.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
While that's a great thing to teach and learn, in this case the girl had no cell phone, but was able to ask for help on an iPod Touch.
I know, I must be new here, but I read the article. He took away her cell phone before she went to bed (possibly making this a premeditated assualt), but she was able to use her iPod to post her plea for help on Facebook (presumably over a wifi connection).
911: When seconds count help is only minutes away.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I'm not even trying to get the point. I just want to make it clear that ketchup on eggs is for losers no matter your age or perceived amount of "hipness". These are the same people who would put Heinz 57 on a Filet or Porterhouse.
A 12-year-old girl, victim of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree. Hilarious.
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
Especially when they have 12 year old daughters? Cant understand it.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The girl grabbed her iPod. Not her iPhone. Not her cellphone, the home phone, the anything-phone, her iPod. Her cellphone was taken away. So everyone who's going, "Why didn't she call 911?" or "This could have easily been a text message," it couldn't. iPod. Had that been me, I'd probably have searched frantically for a phone, even venturing outside my room, and ultimately running to the payphone. It shows incredible presence of mind for her to realize she could get a message out from her iPod (via Facebook, but it could easily have been email or pretty much any other internet communication).
I think that puts it firmly in the realm of Slashdot, and the debate should be something more along the lines of, "Should police departments have Facebook/other social networking accounts for the purpose of getting crime reports similar to 911." Probably not (too much spam), but it's something to consider. Sometimes it's easier to get on the internet than to a phone.
I'm a psychologist (amongst other things).
This was rape, yes, but not pedophilia. Doesn't make it any more or less abhorrent. Pedophilia is by definition a sexual interest in prepubescents. The guy is not a pedophile simply due to raping a 12 y.o., as she was likely sexually mature. On top of being a rapist, he may be a pedophile, too, but we can't tell just by what he did now. In my mind pedophiles deserve lifetime prison sentences with no possibility of a parole. This guy deserves a couple decades in jail for sure, but it's really not pedophilia. It's the rape of a minor. Let's call things the way they should be called.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
who was living with who? There seems to be more here than is being reported.
Cause dialing 911 on an iPod Touch will do nothing.
There's no patch for stupidity
In my mind pedophiles deserve lifetime prison sentences with no possibility of a parole. This guy deserves a couple decades in jail for sure, but it's really not pedophilia. It's the rape of a minor.
So you think someone with an attraction to underage persons who never acts on that impulse should serve more time than someone who uses violence to satisfy his needs? Your kidding, right?
Rape should be a capital crime, IMHO.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
A better question is: Why the fuck you din't read the article? Was it so hard to click on the link.
Dumbass.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Good point, I suppose her home could be rather like my current one ... no landline.
When I was a kid, nearly every phone in the house had a POTS phone, so I made a bad assumption.
But then again, I'm ancient!
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Are you implying rape of a minor doesn't deserve life in prison without parole, or even rape in itself. In my book they are both equal, and very much deserve the same punishment.
The mother is 100% to blame, from the story.
"Cesmat, who has a sizable criminal history,"
No caring mother would put their kid in harms way, good to see the child can take care of business, she should have gouged the a**holes eyes out.
Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
Heh, but notice how this is not the fearsome predator that lurks on Facebook or other places on the very, very scary Internet.
This guy was actually invited by her own mother there.
In other words, the people to fear are not the scary strangers on the net, but the ones we have right near.
And alot of landlines are cable modem phones, they don't do address lookup either.
"You guys are so unhip it's a wonder your bums don't fall off."
-Zaphod Beeblebrox
I didn't think this was required, but /sarcasm. Starbucks sucks. I'm actually sitting here in sweats, drinking crappy chock full o' nuts coffee, currently listening to 2112, writing code. BTW hipness (lame term, BTW) has nothing to do with age - you either have it or not, and if you have to tell people that you have it - you don't.
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
Do you know how to read?Ipod touch.
There's no patch for stupidity
rtfa, fuckwad
The article has a pretty clear timeline.
He confiscated her cell phone earlier in the evening, and was probably unaware that her iPod gave her any ability to communicate. He wanted her isolated.
Later, he walked into her room, naked, and attempted to remove her pants. She screamed. He left the room briefly. She sent a message on Facebook asking a friend to contact her mother and ask Mom to come and take her home. I don't know what was going through her head at the time, leaving might have been a better option, but she's 12 years old and asking for help was probably not a terribly bad option.
He walked back into the room very shortly thereafter and raped her, after which she escaped the house, got to a payphone, and called her mother who was already enroute.
Maybe she could have handled it better, such as leaving immediately, but if she only had enough time to fire off an IM over Facebook to a friend, it's unlikely in the extreme that she could have escaped or secured the room in the time she had available, and any attempt to do so might have made the situation worse. She might have thought he wouldn't come back in since he left after a scream.
As it is, she used her only communications media to make sure people knew she was in trouble and who was a threat to her, which would have been very useful if this whole thing had turned even more tragic and Cesmat had actually killed her. She called for help using the only method she knew would reach someone she knew.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
A better thing to teach would be to run to a safe place and call 911. It seems that she had the opportunity to get away after the initial assault, but she wasted her time trying to get help on Facebook. Also, where was the mother?
Given the fact that Cesmat took away her cell phone earlier in the evening, as mentioned in TFA, if there had been a landline he probably would have made sure that didn't worth either.
His excuse to her was that "he didn't want her texting all night". Obviously, his real intention was to make sure she had no way of calling for help. Thank goodness he didn't know her iPod had Internet access. She at least had a way to ask for help.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
A story like this demonstrates to people that Facebook, and the internet in general, can be useful, even life-saving.
In that way, it may do something to counteract the typical "internets are corrupting your children!!1!" moral-panic type stories that propagate so widely across the news media. (E.g., see the current hysteria about kids listening to binaural beats on YouTube.)
Please, please, please read TFA. Especially before you accuse a girl of being stupid because she was raped and had no way of calling for help. It really makes you look stupid when you make up facts to support a viewpoint that accuses the victim of stupidity.
First, she made the communication BEFORE being assaulted.
- Cesmat had confiscated her cell phone earlier in the evening. She had no telephone. Hence no ability to make calls.
- Cesmat had briefly left her room after attempting to remove her pants and her fighting him off. She had no way of knowing she was ABOUT to be raped (get the timeline right), so she used her only communications media to get a friend to have her mom come home and get her away from Cesmat ASAP. Little did she know he was about to re-enter the room and rape her.
- After the rape, Cesmat left. She then blocked the room off and escaped through the window, found a payphone, and called her mother (who was enroute already).
Could leaving the room immediately have prevented the rape? Maybe. Or maybe he was just outside the room at the time and her attempt at escape could have turned this deadly.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
She should learn about Voip - but still, smart thinking on her part.
This is why there should be a skype app for the iPod Touch.. won't someone think of the children!?!
Leaving a minor alone with any non-relative man is dubious at best.
A 12 year old girl and a known criminal ?
I was taught that steak sauce was invented to disguise the bad taste of a 30 year old bull. I wouldn't know, because I avoid 30 year old bull meat.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
A term (if you want one) is hebephile.
In my opinion, paedophilia is worse, and the word should be used accurately. I don't see much/any difference between raping a 15yo or a 16yo (or a 60yo), but I do see a difference between raping a 15yo and a 5yo.
Yeah OK. It's not like 14 year olds never go looking for sex, or approach older partners for sex, or get pregnant because they jumped in the lap of the only partner available to them because mommy and daddy don't let a sexually mature young person have friends or dates or any life outside of home and school.
Amazing how you can take on rational sentence and detroy any potential of credibility you may have garnered in the very next sentence.
Rape is rape. Molestation is not implicitly rape no matter how you try to rationalize it. What this fellow did sure looks and smells like rape, which is exactly what someone who committed such an act deserves to have commmitted upon them.
"Ha ha! They gonna anally rape you, that's what's gonna happen..."
"...Cesmat, who has a sizable criminal history..."
NICE CHOICE OF BOYFRIEND! Really, really a great idea to let him stay at home and take care of your pubescent daughter.
Mom, you're awesome.
On another note, I understand that some people will find this distasteful, but I'd argue that this level of criminal sexual conduct - if proven in a court of law - would justify sterilization of both the boyfriend and mom.
But that's just too cruel for some people, I guess.
-Styopa
It is highly likely the mother knew nothing of this man's criminal history. Last time I checked people didn't just go around background checking thier dates. Hell I dated a woman for 2 months before I even knew her last name, much less SSI # that is required to do a proper background check. Get a clue folks. The press is supplied by the cops and public record. Of course THEY know about this guys history. The woman was likely totally clueless to it. Not to mention, since when was check fraud (something easily committed on accident) grounds to suspect a violent nature?
"And the heathens with their ways of trickery and deceit shall not prevail over the will of the righteous"
It seems that she had the opportunity to get away after the initial assault, but she wasted her time trying to get help on Facebook.
Of course, she had no way of knowing he was coming back. So it's quite possible she was just asking for Mom to come pick her up, as the article stated. Plus, he wasn't gone long. Even if she had tried to escape, it might not have been successful.
While hardly ideal (since the rape actually did occur), at least she was resourceful enough to let someone know she might have been (and as it turned out was) in trouble and needed help. The mother was enroute
Also, where was the mother?
Out of the house. No further information is available. But since she and Cesmat had been dating and he was still living there, it was probably not unusual for him to be left alone with her. Dating someone with a criminal record isn't exactly a sign of brilliance, but on the other hand he had no prior record of anything violent.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
"911" would be a logical choice if she knew she was in imminent danger. She was contacting Mom to come pick her up, probably because she thought she had scared him off with her initial kick and scream. She was, unfortunately, wrong. But I don't know her true motivations, of course. I wasn't there, I'm not 12, and I'm not female. She got the word out that she needed help. She did something. Maybe not the optimal thing, but she's a 12-year old in a potentially dangerous situation that she may or may not be fully aware of.
Assuming she wanted to use "911", VoIP on the iPod Touch cannot do location, so at best it would have been a central dispatch office that covers the entire US. So, assuming Cesmat was within earshot, he'd know she was trying to talk to someone before she could get a location out. If she even got the call connected, it's very likely the call would have ended before she could scream an address with city and state to the dispatcher.
On the other hand, her Facebook friend already knew where she was, and she knew the friend was there and had a way to contact her mother.
Overall, though, agreed - she at least did something that got help on the way and became part of the evidence chain that helped nail the bastard for what he did. Tragically, it didn't prevent the rape, but I'm not sure anything she could possibly have done would have. If she had attempted to escape or tried to communicate in a more obvious way, Cesmat might have killed her, and no one would have known she needed help and it might never have been linked to him.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
It's called "Rape"...
Bow-ties are cool.
True Story: I remember back a decade and a half ago when my father was hot tempered and would get drunk that I had a friend on chat contact the police for me (this was back in the big AOL days) when he went crazy and started throwing shit around the house and breaking things. The internet can be a life saver.
The words aren't very meaningful anyway. They only apply if they are your true sexual desire, and the child isn't simply the easiest way to have sex or satisfy some control/domination/other fetish as children are much less independant than adults. I suppose you could say that no matter what she was in the range of possible victims, but that's a weak conclusion.
Secondly, they deal with the bodily development which causes the attraction, which varies quite wildly between early and late bloomers while laws deal with age in years. What he did is clear, he raped a 12 year old. Answering why and which, if any, of the *phile categories he goes into is not. Personally I think anyone who rapes people have serious issues with their sexuality above and beyond what features they're attracted to.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
OK, I wasn't clear: I meant to imply pedophiles who act on their urges. Mere mental issue that somehow never gets a pedophile into abusing a child is not what I was after. I wonder how may of those are out there -- it's a genuine question. Do all pedophiles end up hurting a child? Are there any studies on that out there?
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Unfortunately not here in the UK
I think a one-time rapist has some chance at rehabilitation; it'd have to be shown and evaluated by the parole board. A pedophile who hurt a kid -- I don't think there's much you can do to help those out. If you go too far, it's too far to turn back IMHO.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, but almost no guns. The US has less than half their suicide rate, with guns freely available.
People who want to commit suicide will use whatever means handy. The availability of one method, guns, has no impact on that.
Putting aside physchological scars: I think that the main issue with pedophiliac rape is that there's irreparable damage done to the victim's body. It's just as well you had cut the kid's limb off. The psychological scars are a whole another story and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, really.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
More significant IMHO was the fact that although he had confiscated her cell phone he failed to realise that she had an iPod and/or that it was internet-connected.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
At least in the neighborhoods around where I am this will get police to your (approximate) location even if all you do is dial it and hang up.
Probably within a half-hour to a few hours, depending on how busy they are. Maybe even the next day.
Since he was quite possibly right outside her door she probably didn’t want to be making any noise, so talking to a 911 operator would’ve also been less desirable than sending a silent text-message.
Of course, as others have already pointed out, she didn’t have the cell phone anyway – but her assailant hadn’t realised she could get on the internet using her iPod.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Of course, she had no way of knowing he was coming back.
True, but I would think after he "came into her room naked and tried to take her pants off", she would have known the situation was more serious. I guess no one believes it can actually happen to them until it does.
While hardly ideal (since the rape actually did occur), at least she was resourceful enough to let someone know she might have been (and as it turned out was) in trouble and needed help.
Good point. She was resourceful, and I have to give her props for that. I only hope my daughters are a little more resourceful if they find themselves in a similar situation.
...it was probably not unusual for him to be left alone with her.
Which, as a father, I find to be appalling.
Dating someone with a criminal record isn't exactly a sign of brilliance, but on the other hand he had no prior record of anything violent.
Actually, I think it likely that the mom knew nothing of his criminal record. Not many people are honest about their shady past, either because they're trying to put it behind them or for other reasons.
A drill or a socket wrench cannot kill you if you drop it, or if you think it's unloaded, or if you get angry with your pregnant stepmother and decide to kill her while she sleeps.
Guns are designed to destroy life. They make it too easy to turn short term emotion into permanent tragedy. Throw in accidents, carelessness, sociopaths, and the primate violence found in all human societies, and there's no reason not to regulate it just like we regulate explosives or dangerous chemicals.
Having said that, I am aware that it's far more dangerous to own a pool than it is to own a gun, if you're worried about kids dying. And driving is probably up there in a similar risk pool. But the reason that guns should be regulated is because they make it very easy to take someone else's life by choice as well as by accident.
Of course, she had no way of knowing he was coming back.
According to the report, she stated that she knew he would come back.
He was in her room 2 different times on that night and he had previously been known to come into her room while she slept: “she had woken up to find him standing in her room before, and felt that it was about to happen again”.
He also told her to leave her door “open”. I am not sure if this means wide open or only unlocked... my inclination would be to expect that it means unlocked, but in that case I don’t know why she wouldn’t have at least tried to lock her door after fighting him off the first time. Now I wonder if she might not have had a lock on her door at all, and leaving the door open might have been so that he could check up on her more easily (making sure she was still in bed?).
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Sorry, the word 'pedophilia' does in fact have a meaning. Because you are too busy with your indignant rage to accept that doesn't make the word's meaning change.
Yes, the man raped the 12 year old, but that does not make it pedophilia.
And bravo to insulting people that provided you with the meaning of the word. After all, why should we let dictionaries tell us what a word mean?
It's best not to make bad jokes based on grammar when English is not you r first language. There was nothing wrong with the GP's sentence and your "joke" is disgusting and not funny.
If you don't think my jokes are funny, that's cool. Sometimes I'm actually not funny.
And I'd tend to agree, there was actually nothing wrong with the phrase I was intentionally misinterpreting. If things had gone down the way I'd suggested, the original sentence would have been more naturally phrased as "my friend got his rifle and tried to rape his mother while someone was breaking into the house".
But the joke wasn't based on grammar, it was based on misinterpreting grammar... Like a lot of the Police Squad gags or half the stuff from Airplane.
"Cigarette?"
"Yes, it is."
"I live a pretty solitary life, just me, the open road, and my bike."
"A loner?"
"No, I own it."
"Surely, you must be joking."
And so on... The simple fact that, under normal circumstances, these phrases would not be misinterpreted is the whole basis of the joke.
Bow-ties are cool.
I hate to feed AC trolls, but please prove proof of your "Every crime ever committed against children comes from the current or ex boyfriend of some mother." claim.
I know you can't but I'm sick of the crap some people are willing to spit out. I would encourage you to also "use your freakin' brain" you moron.
Next time I'm assaulted and don't know how to get help, I'll try forcing lots of air through my tightened vocal chords. Who would think of that?
Yes, keep doing that, and maybe some good samaritan will help you in the middle of the night. Hey, worked for Kitty Genovese, right?
And for the record, the girl in TFA did scream.
You try calling 911 when you are 12 years old, just been attacked, are scared, in shock and the guy that just hurt you said he will kill you if you try to call for help.
How do you even know there was a phone she could safely get to? Were you there?
On second thought, you are an idiot.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Please, raping a 12-year old? The trauma inflicted is staggering.
He should get a first class trial with a first class appeal and if found guilty on both cases he should get tossed into a wood chipper.
Stop turning this into a "liberal" issue
Many liberals own guns. Most liberals think there is nothing wrong with owing a gun.
There are some anti-gun people. Calling them liberal is a republican trick to make people think liberal want to take everyones gun away. "oohh scary liberal going to get you.."
It's bullshit, and I sincerely hope you are better then that.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The real story here is that she actually found a payphone in this day & age.
First off:
Dont compare Japan and American suicides. There are signigfican cultral differences.
It seems that most suicides are spur of the moment events . Alaos, they mostly happen on swednesday.
I was listening to some discussing research into why suicide. there was a period where about 500 people were stopped from committing suicide by jumping off the golden gate bridge. aster 10 years, only 4% when on to actually kill themselves.
So having an immediate way to die does seem in increase suicides.
I'm not advocating getting rid of guns here, just thought you should be aware it isn't as intuitive as you may think.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
On August 23, 2003, while in protective custody at the Souza-Baranowski Correctional Center in Shirley, Massachusetts, Geoghan was strangled and stomped to death in his cell by Joseph Druce, a self-described white supremacist and inmate serving a sentence of life without possibility of parole for killing a man who allegedly made a sexual pass after picking Druce up hitchhiking. An autopsy revealed the cause of death to be "ligature strangulation and blunt chest trauma."[citation needed] There have been questions raised about the wisdom and propriety of placing these two men in the same unit, since prison officials had been warned by another inmate that Druce had something planned.[3]
A Worcester, Massachusetts jury found Druce guilty of first-degree murder on January 25, 2006, after the jury rejected his insanity defense. The next day, Druce was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for a second time.
Interesting that the guy who killed him try to claim insanity. What's the point when you are already serving a life sentence? I would have stood in open court, confessed to the crime and asked the Judge for a medal. What more can they do to you?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Yes, it's very easy to conduct such studies - because in an era when pedophile means "witch to be burned forever in hell or at the stake whichever we can get to first" people are completely willing to admit to being a pedophile...
It's impossible to take such a measure, because our society has made it virtually impossible to discuss the issue in a rational manner. Imagine if someone WAS able to make such an assessment - "in an anonymous survey of one million self professed pedophiles such and such a percentage had actually been accused or convicted of crimes against children" and that percentage was anything less than 99% - imagine the reaction it would meet with in public forums. The author would probably be burned at the stake, at least professionally.
Suicide does rely on a lot of factors, as you mention for example culture, which I believe is a dominant factor.
But I have never seen anything that points to guns being a factor.
please do feel free to offer your better, more complete stats. And please remark that, as opposed to other participants in the discussion, I do offer some stats, and debunk the only number "they" had giben (100 accidents with guns / yr, when in reality it's 1,500)
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
United States homicide rate: 2.97 per 100,000
England homicide rate: 0.12 per 100,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence
As I understand you are not meant to own a facebook account if you are under 13.
We need to heavily censor the Internet to protect predators from children like this. *sigh* I'd use a winking smily but I don't think it is appropriate here.
We use GNU/SunOS.
I was afraid of hearing precisely that. I only wanted to have a rational discussion, but apparently when one discusses sexual crimes people switch into mace-wielding caveman mode.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
This girl is an absolute hero. Most children that age (and much older) are too terrified to report an assault, so the crime goes on. The people criticizing her here are sick.
> What this fellow did sure looks and smells like rape, which is exactly what someone who committed such an act deserves to have commmitted upon them.
An eye for an eye, really? How barbaric. Also I'm quite sure that rape qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment.
see here ---> http://www.farmingtonindependent.com/event/article/id/14790/
> If he didn't have a gun, he would have slugged her. The next day they would have made up, and gone on with their lives.
Their happy-lovely wife-slugging lives. Truly an approximation of paradise.
> Why don't you carry a wine bottle around for protection?
It is not handy and very slow to wield, a kitchen knife is better even. Bare fists can kill a person in less than 3 seconds if they belong to highly skilled fighter. But that is not the point - guns excel at killing OR disabling, and they are a top tier personnel weapon that you can legally buy, therefore people naturally prefer them.
I have nothing to lose but my bindings.
use counterfeit money ? Freshly minted with your laser printer ? Distance obscures, you know ...
I have nothing to lose but my bindings.
Good thing it's not the state doin' the raping...
http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_15540156According to this, the guy killed himself.
Looks like he killed himself http://www.twincities.com/ci_15540156?source=most_viewed
If the state puts someone in a situation where such a thing is very likely to happen, they might as well be. If I threw you in a cage full of rabid dogs I would still be responsible for your horrible injuries and/or death even though I did none of the biting.
I am not arguing the numbers; I'm saying the argumentation was LAME! This whole subject requires more research and data than one little, incomplete chart. You might want to start with TSAOUS http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/births_deaths_marriages_divorces.html and look at the various categories from 106-124. Any almanac has better statistics than what you have shown. We do not have to be experts in order to see that you have a bone to pick and that your argument does not hold water.
No statistics are better than corrupted statistics.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
How are my stats corrupted ? Is all data that does not fit your convictions automatically "not good enough" ?
If you want to disprove that more guns = more guns deaths and more guns accidents and more deths in total, you'll have to do the work, and it's gonna be a bit more work than "I don't like your data".
You obviously like ad hominem attacks and arguments better than data. Most of the truth is in the data, though.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.