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Ubuntu Moves Away From GNOME
An anonymous reader writes "It's official: Ubuntu has, with its ironically named 'Unity' interface, chosen to move away from GNOME for Ubuntu Natty Narwhal. Or at least move away from GNOME Shell. Mark Shuttleworth says that Ubuntu will still be 'GNOME,' even if it's not using GNOME Shell. Do you agree?"
can they still do that under the gnu license?
From TFA:
"GNOME Shell is the interface being developed for GNOME 3.0, which was delayed to spring 2011."
What the hell does a sea unicorn have to do with $5.00/case frat boy beer?
I know some people say you can't configure Unity (running it on a netbook) the one thing it really needs is the ability to auto-hide as I've now got this big column of desktop real estate on the left of the screen I can't do anything with anymore.
NB: To those complaining about lack of configurability - try dragging icons around or right clicking them - you can modify it...
Java gaming nut - http://www.retep.org/ or for the rail http://uktra.in/
...that the summary is +1 flamebait, apparently just a thinly-veiled attack on their decision. How about a summary that describes what they're doing (without using the word ironic), and why?
Mark Shuttleworth says that Ubuntu will still be "GNOME," even if it's not using GNOME Shell.
I've got a mole in the Ubuntu organisation. The word is that mr. Shuttleworth has been in secret talks with Darth^WSteve Ballmer to negotiate the rights for Vista's Aero interface. It was available for pennies due to the number of unsold Vista licenses. The next version of Ubuntu will sport the familiar Aero interface, with features such as the nifty and user-friendly Deny/Allow-widget, grafted straight onto the Linux Kernel.
Open source community, what more do you want?
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Thanks to desktop standards, people have been doing this for years... makes sense that a major distro is following suit.
My desktop pretty much only uses gdm and gnome-terminal from GNOME, and occasionally nautilus (though I turn off the desktop handling).
Using Enlightenment DR16 or occasionally compiz as the window manager, and awn ("Avant Window Navigator") as the panel, with compatible taskbar and notification area.
Bye bye Ubuntu. You made me switch with Maverick Meerkat, but seeing as that's not an LTS as of Natty Narwhal I'll be going back to good ol' Debian.
The times when i used not-the-standard-configuration-of-whatever distribution i installed to save memory are gone with my last laptop below 512MB of Ram. If Canonical thinks its easier to maintain it in a different way, fine with me. If it does'nt work i can tune, switch, get into the details and fix it. Until that point i would be happy not to figure out about changes......
If they do weird things, i am happy to use debian again.
Semantic questions, and questions of categorization, can be interesting and(when all goes well) can even clarify your thinking about a topic; but are otherwise rather pointless.
On the one hand, it is trivially obvious that if you aren't running the GNOME desktop environment, you aren't runnning GNOME. On the other hand, if you are running a set of programs, and depending on a set of libraries, essentially identical to that of a GNOME desktop, just window managed by something else, it is much more meaningful to say that you are "running GNOME" or "running a GNOME derivative" than it is to say much else.
Unless you want to actually come up with some set-based definition of what "Running GNOME" means, you won't really be able to conclusively answer the question one way or the other.
So the news is that they're moving away from something that doesn't exist yet?
Maybe they just want to wait for it to exist and test it and shake the bugs out before they decide to use it ?
Consistency.
When you product changes all the time, people are going to have to deal with these changes. When I "upgraded" versions of Ubuntu, I had to deal with a completely different looking interface. WHY? Change for the sake of change seems to be a big driving force in this project. Honestly, the UI that I am using now is no different than it was in 2004. I could have made something in 2004 look exactly like what Ubuntu looks like today. So there really isn't even an excuse that things are being changed to add features. We get a "new look" every rev because some dev thinks that it looks cool. It gets really old when your task bar is moved to the other side of the screen, your menus are all reorganized, and the terminal session shortcut that used to be on a particular convenient context menu is now gone.
Up until recently (Vista/Ribbon interface) and arguably even now, Microsoft has been able to provide more consistency than a lot of these Linux distros.
Are we going to see a Gubuntu now?
There is going to be some questions about this decision in relation to GNOME. I want to make something crystal clear: Ubuntu is GNOME distribution, we ship the GNOME stack, we will continue to ship GNOME apps, and we optimize Ubuntu for GNOME. The only difference is that Unity is a different shell for GNOME, but we continue to support the latest GNOME Shell development work in the Ubuntu archives.
Jono Bacon from http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/25/ubuntu-11-04-to-ship-unity/
FTA: "Earlier this year, Canonical representatives had to deny that they were forking GNOME..."
This apparently is a common refrain when asked, no one will EVER admit to it.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
When they came to take away the Gnome Shell, I said nothing, for I do everything from the command line anyway (higher bandwidth than clicky-clicky)
When they came to take away the Gnome, I said nothing, for I run KDE, really just kdm/konsole.
When they came to take away emacs, I said nothing, for I am a VIM user.
When they came to take me away, there was no one left to defend me, because everyone else had upgraded to the latest Debian stable, now releasing 3 times as fast as recent Winders releases.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Great comment
"Not a clue what any of this means. I'll just stick with Windows or Mac. You buy it, turn it on, and it works." - Joe Q Public
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Gnome has held GNU/Linux back for nearly 10 years now.
I like the idea of Unity somewhat, but it really isn't much more than an omni-present dock, some shiny effects, and icons. GNOME Shell uses less horizontal space and equal vertical space, scales well for netbooks as well as desktops, has much better notification organization than Unity, is supported upstream much more, it has extensions which allow great control over the system (including this very nice and extremely lightweight dock extension), an Application Menu which lets you quit all windows of an application (and in the future, let you access options that apply to the application as a whole), and so much more! Unity, on the other hand, confuses me. The user interface prefers icons instead of words for telling us what things do, it wastes horizontal space by having that dock, it doesn't have nearly as good workspace management as GNOME Shell, it's slow-ish at the moment, and so on.
GNOME Shell has been steadily improving. You can check the git server right here, which I do every day. And just so you know, the overlay re-design is being worked on and is in a separate branch, which you can find here: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/log/?h=overview-relayout.
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Ubuntu had a great deal of promise. But they have failed to deliver. It's been years, and they still cause hard drives to crash, they still fail to support hardware, and they still have shitty updates that break things. I'm done with Ubuntu and it makes me sad, because I can't go back to Windows now. My next computer is going to be an Apple and I don't give a damn about the apple tax, because apparently it is the only way to get a real unix desktop with well-supported software and hardware, that works. Shame on you Ubuntu.
Gnome Shell is going to be the killer feature of Gnome 3 and probably makes it DOA.
FWIW, I wish there was a window manager that set it's own paradigm. GNOME to me seemed to mimic early versions of Mac OS and OS X. KDE seemed to mimic Microsoft Windows. Granted most of the concepts are ripped straight from Xerox, it'd be nice if there was a window manager that set the standard for FOSS GUI desktops.
As it is now, I tend to use XFCE the most... blazing fast and rock solid stable on both slackware and freebsd... But I keep checking on KDE...
from TFA:
"Unity is 'a shell for GNOME, even if it isn't GNOME shell'"
Riiiiiiiiighhhhttttt... Why do people say things like that? It may be true, but it's like people in the community purposely try to make desktop Linux as confusing and unapproachable as possible.
I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
So Unity is a shell developed by Gnome, but it is not the true Gnome shell? What is the point of this? Why not just stick with what has made Ubuntu the most popular distribution of Linux. This to me is one of the flaws of Linux, nobody can make up their mind. Once a distro decides to use a certain shell stick with it. New users don't want to have to learn multiple shells. This way when a user picks a certain distro they know what they are getting in the form of a shell. How many Ubuntu users who are not computer geeks, but enjoy open source are going to pissed off once Unity is rolled out and their desktop looks completely different one day?
From TFA:
"GNOME Shell is the interface being developed for GNOME 3.0, which was delayed to spring 2011."
On the plus side: there are now also ordinary people using Ubuntu - people that don't know anything.
On the down side: they still don't understand what a shell is, even after that explanation (see quoted text).
To me, it's not really clear where GNOME starts or stops... So there's at least one Ubuntu user who is quite clueless what this is all about.
The value of this post? I show you all that there are people able to use Ubuntu without even the basic knowledge of the processes or even the names of them running on the computer. I always think of myself as the target group for Ubuntu. The wizkids can use the other Linux systems.
I can't blame distributions for not following the GNOME project in all their technical decisions - some parts of GNOME are (and continue to be) neat, but several, particularly those bits tied with Mono and other attempts to wear Microsoft's leash, are lousy (plus some bits duplicate functionality better done elsewhere, e.g. Empathy over Pidgin).
GNOME is still a pretty decent development environment, and there are a lot of nice applications that use the GNOME libraries. Still, there's no reason distros need the detault GNOME desktop to run them, and people/distros can be perfectly happy taking GNOME components and standards piecemail.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
"I want something that looks like Windows (start button, trashbin, tabs on bottom or top, etc)." - by commodore64_love (1445365) on Monday October 25, @11:22AM (#34012718)
See subject-line above, because afaik? That's as CLOSE as you'll get to the "Windows look & feel", w/out going to some sort of "Lindows" build (there used to be such a build, and probably there still may be if you check distrowatch.com )...
I felt much the same as you, which is WHY I chose KUbuntu 10.10 & 10.04 before that this year.
Anyhow/anyways:
Personally, I think Linux has FINALLY come to the point where it's a decent Operating System for most end-user oriented tasks @ home daily (e.g. - websurfing, home office tasks via OpenOffice, multimedia tasks etc./et al)... &, that's "ME", the "original posterboy for 'Windows fanboy @ /.'" pretty much, saying it.
What does Linux lack? Ok, from my perspective @ least:
HOMEFRONT:
More games, & of the calibre Windows enjoys... folks game @ home, face it, & most folks tend to use their PC's as a "Wintendo", or information gathering system/shopping system online.
INDUSTRIAL:
Better "esoteric peripheral equipment" support in drivers, and a VOLUME MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (a good one of the likes of the one Windows has with NTFS & Active Directory, OR, a ZFS filesystem)
Other than that though? Linux is pretty damned good, I have to admit it. Good enough for me to use daily in fact, and for around 1/2 yr. now consistently here @ home so far... I told Foredecker (a senior MS manager who posts here, via email, that EVENTUALLY? Linux WOULD "catch up" & it appears to be nearing that point finally, after oh, 15++ yrs. or thereabouts, imo @ least). Cover those bases above I noted?? It'll be there...
APK
P.S.=> Again though, is there a "closer build" to the look/feel of Windows? Well, check on "Lindows" online on GOOGLE to see what the case is there for that, because iirc, the 'tell' online was that it was almost EXACTLY a Windows 9.x shell look/feel (don't quote me on that though, I only heard the online "rumor mill"), which is what it sounds you are looking for... apk
Good one. Either you are very young or sarcastic.
Windows 1-3. Complete changes. 3.1 to 95. Complete change. 95-98 the look didn't change, just where everything was. 98 to 2000... don't get me started. 2K to XP, lots of changes again. Vista so many changes many did not bother. W7, must have been a big change because people don't hate it as much as Vista.
Every single version of Windows has changed the layout and organization of basic configurations until the point where messing with your disks is so many layers deep I need a mining canary to find it.
Compared with that both OSX and Ubuntu have been solid rock.
Which probably is what sits in your head... MS and consistent interface...
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Ubuntu was great few years ago, equally supporting KDE and GNOME. Since then they failed to keep up with KDE version and trashed the user experience. I went to OpenSUSE and it's superior compared to latest Ubuntu or Kubuntu. It's fast, has latest KDE4 (that WORKS) and it has GUI tools (for system configuration, like adding printer from network) that are reliable. Even plugging secondary monitor to my laptop, finally started to work like it should.
Kubuntu had OpenOffice save dialog broken for two latest releases. If you tried to save anything, dialog would go stuck for 30 seconds and everytime you click anything (browse folders) it goes stuck again. Actually, i'm not sure if that is still broken?
Now it's Ubuntu this and Ubuntu that. Ubuntu doing something CraZy and n3w that just confuses users that just want to get job done.
Every now and then, everyone should try other Linux distributions too.
Ah, but searching doesn't *end* with typing words into a box. It ends when you've actually *found* what you were looking for. And seriously, while googling "ubuntu 10.10" does get you relevant results, it gets you all kinds of numbers with 10.10 in them (like 10.10.255.255). "ubuntu maverick" gets (IMHO) more relevant results.
One of my arguments to move to linux on desktop is that I will have to switch between environments and I'll be more flexible. Why some of linux users are so conservative to change?
sorely Dimin1shed. eulogies to BSD's
When Microsoft or Apple put something in their product that people don't like, FOSS proponents respond, "The beauty of FOSS is you if you don't like what someone is doing, you can just go off and do your own thing." When someone actually does this the FOSS proponents seem to respond with, "We can't afford to splinter into tiny interest groups or we won't be able to compete with Microsoft and Apple."
I guess I am somewhere between parent and GP, then. I'm a software engineering student who has some basic linux knowledge: I've used several distributions a bit, had one basic course about it and such... But I still get boggled when WLAN drivers aren't working or X doesn't start up or there is other such an odd problem. I have some large Linux related books in the bookself but have never had time to delve into them. Anyways: I, too, consider myself to be the target audience. It is nice to get the stability, security, etc. of Linux... With a distro that just works (tm). Perhaps one day, when I've gotten myself to study the OS more, I'll try out ArchLinux or something and see where that takes me.
Someone with a three digit /. ID should know that Gnome took several years from the release of 2.0 (2002) until it was back to the usability level of 1.4.
Hm, I wasn't aware having a low user ID carried such burdens...
Perhaps we should institute a system of tests, in which low-UID users are periodically challenged on their knowledge, and demoted if they fail - and other users are given an opportunity to filter up the ranks via the same system?
Bow-ties are cool.
"Unity requires compositing to work properly, which means users need functioning 3D support to use the interface."
What if you have an app that doesn't work correctly with compiz enabled?
Jeez. Ubuntu is becoming the jack of many trades and master of none.
Let the dedicated desktop guys at Gnome work on the UI. Last thing Linux needs is yet another implementation of a desktop.
I think we are about to witness the "Jumping the shark".. (Happy Days reference)
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
but the shit remains
It seems as though the GNOME devs are the only ones who give a crap about accessibility in the FOSS world. How will this affect blind users? Far as I know, there is no screen reader for KDE, and Orca only works with GNOME.
while i can see maintaining a gui that for all intents mimics the ease of use of mac, the state of the linux GUI is nothing short of hellishly bloated. GNOME makes its best effort to keep the bloat to a minimum, but in the end fluxbox, blackbox, and a host of others make it look downright obese. Kudos to the guys at Ubuntu. if you can bring something better to the table, bring it!
Good people go to bed earlier.
Can we get serious about the Linux desktop already? Gnome's gone off the deep end with gnome shell, and this looks to be no better. Turn GNUStep into a functional Mac OS clone. Take NetworkManager and DBusKit. Implement a systempreferences pane for networking, do the same with pulseaudio for sound, one for video etc. Finish simplewebkit/vespucci so there's a web browser, write a linux port of AdiumX using pidgin's libpurple and gnustep so there's chat. IRC/Mail already exists. Knock up a quick rhythmbox clone so there's itunes-alike functionality, and port over the mplayerOSX gui so there's a good video player with a nice frontend. Suddenly there's a lot less FAIL and a lot more consistency in the Linux Desktop experience. Start porting over the huge pile of open source mac apps that have decent consistent user interfaces. Write a finder knockoff, use gworkspace, or knockoff any number of other file managers. Oh and throw in a dock option for people who want it. Who knows? Adobe might even bother porting CS5 to the new platform if it retains compatibility with macOS libraries/Frameworks. They already have CoreImage/CoreFoundation implemented. None of the existing Linux desktops hold a candle to Mac OSX's gui. As a bonus gnustep already lets you set the menubar up in either macintosh style (top of screen), windows style (per window), or nextstep style (floating menu). Everyone goes home happy and we can all get on with our lives.
I suppose ANY KDE 4.5x desktop based Linux distro will/can do here... because it's a LOT closer looking to the Windows desktop than GNOME (or others like xfce etc.).
However, I don't think KUbuntu is what you called it ("it's an half-assed effort that keeps giving KDE a bad name"). I like it personally.
See, I tried Linux "MINT" & it's basically the SAME THING as KUbuntu, but it packs in a lot of tools I could care less about (as well as CODECS I can load myself into KUbuntu on my own anyhow). That's all.
I tried Slackware 1.02 back in 1994, & later Redhat 5.2 + 6.0 even later, in 32-bit distros... too much was still "tty term" based work back then, even in those later Redhat distros. Nowadays though, since I moved to 64-bit wares as well, & with distros like KUbuntu around??
I again will state that Linux is "pretty much there" except for lacking ActiveDirectory, a solid VOLUME MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, & games like Windows has... all else is pretty much covered!
NOW - IF Linux covers those last 3 areas? It will be what I told MS' own senior mgr. of their "Windows Client Performance Division" in FOREDECKER via email (he posts here): Linux is bound to eventually "catch up" to Windows...
APK
P.S.=> However, all these "distros" like you see at distrowatch.com? Personally, this HARMS Linux imo & there IS a sort of "historical precedent" backing me!
E.G.-> Just like it did @ the kernel level in UNIX (BSD vs. AT&T/Bell Labs UNIX binary incompatibilities). Linus T.'s efforts @ "kernel control" are working though, which IS good...
I.E.-> All these diff. shells & Windows managers etc. plus software distributions? It "FRAGMENTS" Linux as a unified effort I feel, almost as badly as what happened to UNIX but not quite... IF ONLY there was maybe 1-3 diff. distros? Linux would be farther ahead, imo @ least, because of "consolidated efforts" concentrated on few, rather than many... apk
Nothing to get your panties in a twist over. I'm sure Gnome/KDE/XFWM will still be available from the repos no matter what canonical does. Besides, it's not like you can't still download Xubuntu, or Kubuntu and install Gnome there.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
""Lindows" was a some crap put together to try and not scare off Walmart customers from buying a $200 PC without Windows. It probably did more harm than good, as it was not free, which to home users is really one of the biggest advantages for linux. Microsoft complained about the name, and it was briefly renamed "Linspire" until Xandros bought them and dropped the product entirely. The only interesting thing it had going for it was the "Click'N'Run" app store, which was supposed to combine a good package management system (I think they used apt) with a front-end for searching and buying applications. However, IIRC it cost a subscription fee just to use the store." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @11:55AM (#34013260) Homepage
Per my subject-line above, I thank you for the info. (I was "hazy" on that & admitted it earlier, so it was a "live-N-learn" thing here & I thank you for that information).
Just "getting back into" Linux here, because last time I used it was around RedHat 5.2-6.0 builds really, and before that, way, Way, WAY EARLY ON in 1994 Slackware 1.02 (which means I probably tried it around the time the first folks here did really & I did not like it (lacked vidcard drivers, meant no "X" even for me, for an ISA based Diamond Stealth 24 "Windows Accelerator" vidcard).
I was also waiting for it to be multithreaded @ the kernel level (fully re-entrant core code that could "pre-empt" itself, and for there to be more than use "round-robin" to a single kernel mode thread for usermode multithreading)!
That all pretty much happened around kernel 2.2-2.4 iirc, around 2002-2003, iirc? Well, so that passed!
Then it was just really a matter of "end-user 'useability'" to happen, & it has imo @ least, with KDE 4.2-4.5x so far.
APK
P.S.=> So, again/lastly: IF the Linux folks who work on it @ the core (Linus T., A. Morton & crew) can get a GOOD VOLUME MGT. SYSTEM, &/or something like ZFS working in Linux, it'll take off even moreso than it has as a server in "industrial usage" I feel, and the gaming end? Get Linux THAT, & Windows/MS will be in serious trouble imo, because zero cost is HARD to beat when all else is pretty much equal... apk
*buntu land needs to RUN, not crawl, not walk, but RUN FAR AWAY from the disease that is gnome and monoboi's other crap...
But alas they still don't get it..."Unitiy....will require composting...."
Would you please QUIT with the stupid wobly windows, spinny cubes and other crap!
For a normal desktop KDE needs to be the choice, and yes I will be the first to get the tar, feather, and pitchforks out over the debacle that is and remains KDE4, unfortunately its still the better of the regular X WM's... For lighter weight LXDE, XFCE, etc. are great... just not for me..
If you want to see what a PROPER *buntu WITH KDE can look like then report to KMint and enjoy...
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1495
1311393600 - Back to Black
I just hope Gnome Shell isn't the disaster that KDE4 has been.
I really *want* to like KDE, but every time I try it, it is always broken. Take 4.5 for example. They finally have the desktop to a pretty stable level, and then for some reason decided to rewrite Kwin from the ground up, and caused a severe performance regression. It's not as noticeable on new hardware, but on an older machine it means not being able to play 720p HD movies without major performance issues. The same machine runs 720p just fine under Gnome.
After using KDE4.5 for a week, I uninstalled it and went back to Gnome. It might be plain looking, but it works. I really hope that Gnome Shell doesn't carry a lot of this sort of baggage.
This is one of my favorites. You start off saying something very sane, so then when you pull the switcharoo to Plaid-speed Insanity, it packs the maximum impact.
The set up:
This is something many of us can relate to. (For me, it was Ubuntu 10.04 Server + hostapd + ath9k. Fail!) The above AC touches on something that doesn't make him seem like a wackjob at all. That's why when he pulls the switch
it leaves you reeling, because you don't expect it. When someone's criticism about an OS is lack of hardware support, you don't expect them to praise an OS that supports maybe 1% as much hardware as the one they just complained about. It's brilliant.
I am sick of my PT Cruiser's gas milage. That's why my next vehicle will be an M1A1 tank.
I have had it up to here with Democrats! That's why I'm voting Republican.
Zombie movies have been done to death. That's why I only watch vampire movies now.
Ubuntu doesn't have enough drivers. I'm switching to Mac OS!
Bud Light has no taste. That's why I drink Coors.
The Pentium II is obsolete. I'm getting an 80386SX.
IMHO GNOME and KDE happen to be a nice GUIs when combined with a great theme and icons. Sometimes people claim for innovation at the expense of consistency, and that's the price we pay. I'd stay with XFCE.
It's interesting how closely this anonymous summary echoes the sentiments of Jeff Waugh, who's never seen a good project that he wasn't able to slow down to a crawl, on Twitter: "... so now "Unity" becomes the most tragically ironic product name in #floss history. #ubuntu #gnome #fail #uds"
http://twitter.com/#!/jdub/status/28693612058
If only the "community" had accepted KDE/QT instead of stomping their feet in righteous indignation, the Year of the Linux Desktop might have occurred a while back. But it seems that the community thrives on KDE v. GNOME, emacs v. vi and PeeCee v. Mac debates, so let's post a misleading anti-GNOME-ish article to Slashdot and generate some controversy whydoncha?
Who really cares what Ubuntu does or threatens to do. I've moved my lot to Linux Mint and am delighted that they are getting off the Ubuntu bandwagon and going with Debian. Life could not be simpler and more easily lived than on Linux Mint LMDE 10.
what it is with the various LInux distros. Why can't they simply establish a mechanism for systematically removing the various inconsistencies in the ways that they call the Linux kernel and in the way they are presented to the user? It that was available, then both groups build to the same standards specification to their hearts content. That way both groups have precisely what they want and users can chose which is best for them. Is it really all that hard to establish some rational measure of consistency from builds with alternate dependencies?
In principle there is nothing to stop anyone from creating a Gnome/KDE desktop that optimizes the desktop in a variety of ways of value to the user, with different optimizations for different users, who may have different needs or requirements.
They are not replacing Gnome. Unity is a shell that runs on top of Gnome. I tried Gnome Shell, which is also a shell that runs on top of Gnome. I didn't like it. I welcome an alternative to it. So these shells are just something that makes your desktop look nice and more organized supposedly. Gnome is still there. Quit with the ZOMG im swtching abck t ofedora!!! You don't have to use Unity or Gnome Shell. Am I wrong here?
I use, and like Ubuntu. But I've never used Gnome.
I might use a few Gnome applications, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. I use Window Maker as my window manager, I use aterm for terminals, I use alpine for email, I use emacs/xemacs for editing.
Due to a bug in xorg in Ubuntu 10.10 which caused many applications to crash when using xinerama, including Window Maker, I was forced to use Gnome for a few days. It was pretty horrible.
I don't really care what Ubuntu's standard desktop is, I can still use whichever one I want.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Ubuntu is not moving away from GNOME, so why doesn't the editor update the story?
`echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
Read the article, this is for netbooks, not desktops or laptops!!!
Mark politely refuses to sip the Kool-Aid!
Seriously, though, it'd be good to have Gnome Shell as an option for those who want it. It's possible Mark has backed down from his previous position of making change just for the sake of change.
On the other hand, Gnome Shell is truly innovative, and I commend the devs for that, and it's a good answer to MS fans who talk about the FOSS community not innovating. It'll be good to have a choice, though.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
I am also tired of all the inconsistencies between the 6-month releases of Ubuntu. I think now that ubuntu is running on a lot of hardware, focusing on consistency and reliability would be much more important. Many changes are only done for the sake of changing! And unfortunately, this usually means that a lot of stuff breaks and that I have to figure out things again. Yes, you could say, then you should be going with the LTS releases. The idea is good, but in reality, my impression is that the LTS releases are not better-cooked than any of the standard 6-month releases; they have about the same amount of bugs. Moreover, with LTS releases, you are stuck with old software in many cases. I think it would make more sense to move to 1-year, or even 2-year release cycles for the core OS, with apps updated and maintained in between.
The gnome shell, nautilus? misses basic features like transparent icons to signify selected (for copy/cut) items.
Windows 95 does it.
Yet, this bug has been open for years.
They refuse to fix it.
Other stuff is more important.
So the shell gets dropped...
Many people proclaim that OS X is an example of how great Unix front end could be, and that went mainstream. In order for Ubuntu to reach similar orbit, it's possible that it can't wait for Gnome proper to get it right, and they need to start making their own stuff.
Ubuntu will be using Compiz for Unity, not Mutter. (The current netbook version is built upon Mutter, but it is being re-written for compiz.)
http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/a-bright-new-future-for-compiz/
The shell is my last refuge from GUIs and the damned mouse. I'd rather it be kept simple thank you very much.
Frankly, I can't stand all the GUI shell replacements for xterm for one simple reason: they integrate with the GUI. The GUI portion of these shells respond to key sequences that I prefer to go directly to the shell. If I use bash as my shell, I want alt-f to do what I've programmed it to do with readline key bindings, not invoke some annoying menu item. That way, when I remotely log into other machines, I don't have my local machine interfering. Logging and command history are more appropriately handled with built-in shell commands and tools such as "script" and "screen".
But I've been called a dinosaur before and undoubtably will be again...
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1810977/ubuntu-unity-offer-2d-3d-graphics-1104
BTW: Compositing != Compiz. Newer window managers provide their own compositing without using Compiz.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
Ever seen this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
There is no need to spend time with packages you won't use.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
I'm preferring Gnome over KDE for one sole reason - 99% of applications I use everyday are Gtk based (e.g. audacious, xchat, gimp, empathy, gwibber, firefox, chrome, evolution, glade etc). The only Qt application I'm using is VirtualBox.
Ur. KDE? Their own wm? WAT
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
Please, give us a break here boys: marsu_k was first modded down for flamebait, and now is up modded? Who do you folks think you're fooling??
Let's let Mr. Bruce Perens, a pretty big name in the *NIX world no less, speak for me on this account, as to how "upmods and downmods" work here on /. (and everyone knows it):
"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @04:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal
Straight from -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192
APK
P.S.=> It's rather painfully obvious that marsu k is just another "multiple registered account utilizing troll" that mods himself up, even after others mod, or meta moderate him down.
That's lame tactics, guys, but easy to see through...
So, I have to ask, whoever modded him up: Is your fav. color "transparent" or what?? LOL... apk
You could have upgraded from LTS to LTS (each 2 years instead of 6 months, possible since 8.04).
I grew tired of Debian for the Desktop even before Ubuntu existed, and when it came, it more or less addressed my issues.
1. I don't have time to configure/fix forever the same damn stupid things again. I like the install and it already works approach. We have lives to live...
2. I don't like Debian Stable, too old, and Debian Unstable too fragile/broken. While Canonical do pull from Sid twice a year, they test/fix stuff on their own.
3. PPAs, because sometimes a 6 month release is not enough, you can have a couple of crucial apps always updated thanks to this. Backports never got all you needed.
4. Innovation. Stability is nice for a base, but stagnation makes life boring. You might not agree with the changes, but at least they are trying new things.
5. Community support, aside from banning the unfriendly "RTFM" attitude, numbers here do matter. Ubuntuforums had become my most used source even for Debian issues.
I often use Debian at work, and my mind has not changed in the last 4 years. Even Ubuntu Server is becoming appealing now, although i still prefer the BSDs there. Ubuntu or a derivate (Such as Mint) is the best for the Desktop, and even "normal people". I don't do windows anymore, i just put Ubuntu using the "oem" install in their machines, it's my favorite/only solution to the tired "my windows has broken again" problem.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
"I want something that looks like Windows (start button, trashbin, tabs on bottom or top, etc). I tried to find Unity screenshots but found nothing. Does it look/feel like a Windows PC?" - by commodore64_love (1445365)
on Monday October 25, @11:22AM (#34012718)
LINUX XP:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linuxxp
See that URL & this screenshot of it for your reference here -> http://distrowatch.com/images/cgfjoewdlbc/linuxxp-jvbxckujv.png
From the sounds of your requests?
Well - It MAY be what you're looking for, exactly (or, as "exactly" as is possible currently).
APK
P.S.=> Onwards & upwards, "getting back to you" is all, from my other reply to you here today in regards to KDE distro usage (I like KUbuntu personally, so I suggested it here -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34012912 ... apk
LINUX XP:
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linuxxp
That about "cuts the mustard" imo @ least, per the original poster's requests he find a Windows-Like Desktop for Linux... well, "there tis"!
---
"My apologies if I sounded hostile in that post, my intentions were to give some info on what "Lindows" is if anyone is looking for a Windows-like experience on Linux."
- by wastedlife (1319259)
on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
No, per my subject-line above? I think you were quite cool and NOT "aggressive" (a-holish, lol) to me at all, & I appreciated the historical backdrop actually... like I said earlier? I took a HUGE break from Linux, waiting for it to be what it is now, and hopefully, moreso in the future, per VOLUME MGT. SYSTEMS, &/or games on it.
---
"I agree that KDE is the way to go for something like that.""
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Yes, I agree as you know, & for the same reasons the init. poster I replied to said he wanted: A desktop close enough to Windows to be VERY easy to adapt to.
---
"I hear Kubuntu gets far less development attention than the main Gnome-based Ubuntu, and see many people recommend SUSE for a KDE desktop."
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Could be, I am not YET that "in touch" with the Linux crowd's "inner workings" (yet), but I intend to learn more as I go is all... you may be right, but, so far? Well, KUbuntu's been great to me, and it does get daily updates (via the software packages tool &/or drivers update tool (these are great)).
---
"I have not personally used KDE in a long time, but I think I might give it another shot now that 4.x seems to have ironed out most of the kinks."
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Do, as it's "GOOD STUFF" now, @ least I think so (& I was a HUGELY "stiff critic" of Linux here for MANY years in fact, but, not anymore).
---
"I do recall a friend once customizing a KDE desktop for his parents to the point that they had no idea they were using Linux instead of Windows."
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Heh, yea... well, see the 1st thing I posted above, lol... that oughtta "blow anyone's mind", especially on this account!
---
"Also, I agree that gaming is a big thing holding linux back from mass desktop usage, but I do not see how this can be fixed."
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Time really... IDSoftware makes builds of DOOM/QUAKE/WOLFENSTEIN, so I figure it's only a matter of time before other major gaming houses do the same - it's only a matter of "love" on the devs parts though, because the "bean counters" are ALL about "sell, sell, sell" & Linux-wares are NOT generally sold for cash (freeware for the MOST part, right?)
---
"WINE and similar will always be at least one step behind in supporting DirectX/3D APIs, which are pretty much de facto. I've heard even John Carmack will be using DirectX/3D for an upcoming game."
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
Right, & JC was a HUGE fan of OpenGL on both Linux &/or Windows (& other systems/OS' too)... even he has to "go with the flow" @ times.
---
"I'm not sure what you mean by a "good volume management system like NTFS/Active Directory"
- by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @02:31PM (#34015668) Homepage
It's a feature for managing syste
Look, I'm all for smooth upgrades, consistency, and I understand why needless change is bad, but I think some people are equating change form something they are familiar with to needless change. Consistency is only a good thing when you either already possess a far superior UI to begin with (Apple in most people's opinions), or are mainly concerned with carrying over an old user base rather than expanding (Microsoft). As much as I love my gnome set up (elegant gnome + my own wallpaper + gnome do), I have to say the default gnome set up doesn't really blow anyone away, and it's hot keys, tricks, and menus aren't necessarily intuitive to a first time user. Basically, it doesn't really give anyone a reason to switch to Ubuntu on first glance. But you know what? The first time I showed my friends (mac and pc users) Unity and Gnome-Do, their first reactions were "wow, that's really cool" and "interesting (in a positive/excited way)" And when it comes down to it, Ubuntu is as much about attracting more users to Linux as it is about giving current Linux users a smoother experience. If Ubuntu doesn't have its own space carved out, what's to interest people, much less convince them to switch over? Plus, I would consider Gnome Shell a much bigger departure from the current gnome interface than Unity in terms of how you use it. Not saying Gnome Shell is worse or better than Unity, but I personally find I work faster on Unity and that Unity is a little more responsive to me.
sudo apt-get remove crap.
sudo apt-get install more_crap.
Once you click on your user name in the GDM login, you can change the default desktop to Gnome's original shell in the bottom panel.
Gnome Shell has been a goofy looking solution in search of a problem ever sense it's been announced. I'm actually thankful that Ubuntu is moving in a different direction. I still want my Gnome/GTK based apps, but I don't need their interface.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
You didn't indicate that you thought I was being a jerk, I had just reread my post and thought it read a bit stand-offish. Glad you didn't feel that way.
Thanks for the tips, I'll have to check out KDE in my Ubuntu desktop again and maybe try the linux-xp in a VM.
For visual management of drive volumes, gparted is pretty strong on this front. The KDE equivalent is QTParted, although I do not know if they have feature parity.
For Active Directory, I misunderstood and thought you were talking about managing volumes with AD, hence the confusion. I agree that this is a must have for enterprise management of both servers and desktops. Anything I've seen from Red Hat or Novell just does not come close. I too am shocked that Novell did not do this considering AD started off as a poor copy of Novell's directory services.
But yeah, linux just never stops chugging along. It is a dominating player in the server arena and hopefully netbooks and tablets running linux will get more users to use it on a regular basis. In fact, tons of people already do and just don't know it (NAS devices, routers, phones and set-top boxes are already running linux in a lot of households).
Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
I'm still using the same GUI in Windows that I started using in 1996 with Windows 95. There is no "try" about it... a few button clicks and about 30 seconds and I'm done. I don't have to download or install a single freaking thing, nor do I have to have any clue as to what is going on under the covers. I truly do not give a $hit that Windows "isn't modular." The GUI works the same way it has for the last decade and a half. That's what I need it to do, and the fact that Linux can do it in a more elegant way is not a feature I need.
He says that GNOME's rejection of global menus, for example, is one of the key philosophical differences that would be difficult to reconcile.
I haven't kept abreast of GNOME developments -- any clue what this part means? Just at first glance, it doesn't make a lot of sense...
Cheers,
Begun, the flame wars have.
"You didn't indicate that you thought I was being a jerk, I had just reread my post and thought it read a bit stand-offish. Glad you didn't feel that way." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @04:21PM (#34017034) Homepage
Nope, like I said per my "subject-line" above?? You were QUITE cool compared to some of the very serious TROLLS I have had to deal with here over the years since 2001-2002 or so.
Your reply was actually WELCOME, as is this one (what w/ the info. on QTParted, & I hope KUbuntu has this, as I can use it! How?
Well, by doing as I have done in Windows since, oh, 1992 or so!
E.G. #1 -> I tend to move stuff like pagefile.sys on Windows to another disk, so, the same can be done in Linux for the swap partition for better overall performance by NOT "taxing" your main programs &/or OS disk in paging tasks (done here already & onto a TRUE SSD (non-Flash RAM based, faster on writes being DDR2 memory on it))
Only problem? I was only able to do it @ install time... I could not find the partitioning tool in KUbuntu! Especially a GUI one... so, thanks for your info. again!
E.G. #2 -> Webbrowser caches (I do this for Opera & I showed how to here -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1836434&cid=34004902 and also here http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1836336&cid=34001036 this week (the fastest browser only gets FASTER here, lol, via this "puny trick"), not sure yet on how to on Konqueror/ReKonq (the default webbrowser KDE has))
E.G. #3 -> %temp%/%tmp% ops movement to another diskdrive
E.G. #4 -> Apps or OS logging too to another diskdrive
See I think of it this way, & it's worked for me @ Microsoft's own "Tech Ed" 2000 -2002 where ideas of mine for SSD &/or Ramdisk usage took the company I did work for to a finalist position @ MS-TechEd 2 yrs. in a row in their hardest category: "SQLServer Performance Enhancement".
I figure the less your main disk does of that type of work from examples #1-4 above? The faster it will perform OS &/or Program executable loads I figure, & fragment your disks less as well, dual bonus (makes sense))
---
"Thanks for the tips, I'll have to check out KDE in my Ubuntu desktop again and maybe try the linux-xp in a VM." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @04:21PM (#34017034) Homepage
You're welcome, and you're welcome for the next "tidbit" from you to me, in return next below:
---
"For visual management of drive volumes, gparted is pretty strong on this front. The KDE equivalent is QTParted, although I do not know if they have feature parity." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @04:21PM (#34017034) Homepage
Not worried about striping or spanning: I just want to be able to graphically resize partitions, MOSTLY (for reasons #1-4 above mostly).
---
"For Active Directory, I misunderstood and thought you were talking about managing volumes with AD, hence the confusion." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Monday October 25, @04:21PM (#34017034) Homepage
Well, I am & I am not... AD is like Novell's own NDS (which was before AD really) & it allowed you to move ANYTHING around your entire enterprise in the tree you used (which beat the hell out of the old domains model, because once you "committed" to that? I, for one @ least, never EVER saw any solutions for changing a server role work generally... you were STUCK!)
Between AD &/or Group Policies? This is the 1 major area Linux needs to "Catch Up" in industrial environs imo @ least, to Windows... funniest part is?? NDS is a NOVELL product, & from what I recall of using it fairly heavily back in 199
"Actually, it is. Kubuntu gets sidelined by the development of the Gnome/Unity Ubuntu, where most tools are developed, and ends up looking, feeling, and working like a mess." - by Steve Max (1235710) on Monday October 25, @05:18PM (#34017850)
First, see my subject-line above. Secondly, your opinion? Who cares, as I disagree strongly about KUbuntu, because I use it everyday and it's pretty damned good. I don't see the hassles you speak of (though you speak SO "ambiguously" as to defend a the line of pure bullshit you're spewing here & you try to make the entire distro sound like it's broken and it's not... That's obvious enough (note your lack of specifics? You're not fooling anyone, troll!))
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"Yeah, what about that? A distro that is just (K?)Ubuntu with a couple of extra repositories and different default settings is basically the same thing as (K?)Ubuntu, but with different default settings and applications? Who would have imagined?" - by Steve Max (1235710) on Monday October 25, @05:18PM (#34017850)
LMAO, doubtless coming from another 'wannabe' who *thinks* he knows computers... Steve Max: Do you even have a degree in the computer sciences, Steve Max? Do you have at least 17 yrs. of hands-on provable experience in computers professionally?? I do on both accounts & I have proof of it...
By the by: Who the hell are you to tell me "what's-what" on what I already KNOW here???
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"Sorry, but any experience with RH5/Slack 1.x is meaningless in deciding about distros today." - by Steve Max (1235710) on Monday October 25, @05:18PM (#34017850)
What, are you stupid? At the commandline/tty term ALONE you could still have gained by its usage as far back as today's distros, especially in shell scripting!
(Yup, as I strongly suspected: Another stupid little noob troll trying to "tell me how it is", lol, & I've been using *NIX variants since, oh, 1984 in academia... have you?)
---
"You can't decide against Windows 7 because Windows 3.1 sucked, or against OS X because System 7 had no real multitasking." - by Steve Max (1235710) on Monday October 25, @05:18PM (#34017850)
Did I even mention those here? No. Who said I was 'against' other distros, especially when they're the SAME BASIC THING (Linux MINT & KUbuntu are SO CLOSE, it's not even funny... heck, MOST KDE based distros seem to be!)
---
"And I've fed the troll too much already to keep going, but your post is pretty funny." - by Steve Max (1235710) on Monday October 25, @05:18PM (#34017850)
Troll? Speak for yourself, noob... lol! See below especially in regard to this you dimwitted reprehensible little nobody of a troll...
APK
P.S.=> Lastly - I also posted about Linux XP too, which satisfies the orig. poster's (commodore64_love (1445365)) request mind you:
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34016492
Have you been as helpful to the poster I replied to, dipshit? No. You just act the troll... & you got burnt for it too.
In my opinion a desktop that adds takes a noticeable amount of time to load is just not worth it. I don't use Gnome on Ubuntu now and I suspect I won't in the future, The fact that the Unity Shell requires 3d hardware acceleration to be usable does not fill me with an optimism in this regard.
read my mind at http://the-willows.blogspot.com/
I have Ubuntu running on three systems at home and as my primary platform at work. I am generally happy with it... except when it comes to upgrading. It seems incapable of managing even simple customizations. The lowest hanging fruit that needs to be plucked is network configuration. At both work and home I am using static IPs. The network management wizard (or whatever it's called) keeps trying to overwrite the interfaces file; I eventually remember how to suppress this via google but it's usually an hour wasted. Worse, during transition to a new version, Ubuntu thoughtfully notes that a variety of configuration files have changed (eg gtetris or some such) proffers a diff, and asks if I want to keep the old one or use a new one. Then it merrily runs off and overwrites all the network configuration information without so much as a how-do-you-do. I was upgrading from 9.04 to 10.04* this morning, and had to recover nameserver and gateway info from a colleague - all I had was loopback setup.
Video and audio always seems to be an issue, too. I had to do a fresh install at home because the system couldn't cope with a change from Nvidia to ATI video chipset, and stopped running anything with OpenGL. Tomorrow I'm wiping the work system with a fresh 10.10 because the Nvidia drivers (pick one of several) are now not being recognized, and even if I get X up with generic drivers the mouse and keyboard are no longer functional in an X session (such that I can't even get out to a shell with Ctrl-Alt-F1), even though the KB is fine prior to X. The last time I ran through an upgrade I had been able to get twinview working after spending a profanity filled day, but audio was somehow collateral damage, even though I didn't muck with anything obviously related to it. I could spend another day pasting bits of my logs into google but would rather spend half a day installing cleanly and restoring my home directory. Ironically I was feeling smug about my Linux platforms having just done this a month ago as a matter of routine Windows maintenance.
* My plan was to stick with 9.04 but I really need Thunderbird 3 to use a javascript filter plugin to compensate for the horror that is our corporate spam "filter", and the non-standard TB3 install suddenly got upset over an updated flash pluggin "shared" (??) with Firefox. I naively thought it would be easier to just bite the bullet and upgrade to a version where TB3 was part of the default install.
I think I will stick with Gnome! I woks! I hope Mint stays with it in its distro!!
Did there used to be configuration other than which screensaver you want and how many minutes of idle after which to activate it?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Wait, you're calling Intel an odd chipset? On a netbook? I'm pretty sure you haven't been netbook shopping recently. Here is the list of the top selling netbooks in September: http://www.netbookreviews.com/best-selling-netbooks-of-september/ 9 out of those 10 use Intel graphics chipset. If a chipset is in 95% (+) of all netbooks sold, it's really irrelevant whether it sucks or not. You really should make sure your OS that's called "Ubuntu Netbook Edition" supports the hell out of it.
College-Pages.com - Online Colleges, Degrees, and Programs
Seriously, loosen the tinfoil, I think it's affecting the circulation to your brain. Could it be that the slashdot hive mind can have dissenting opinions? No surely there must be a global conspiracy. FWIW, yes, I am a "multiple registered account utilizing troll" - I registered around 2000 when I was living in .de, but forgot what my password was (and after I stopped working there, lost saved credentials on my work computer/the work e-mail address I used for registering), didn't bother to re-register for a while.
Well, only if we can still get Kubuntu & Gnubuntu.
Have you tried right clicking on a panel widget and picking 'Lock to Panel'?
When ideas fail, words become very handy.
compiz works just fine under KDE4.
IME compiz is more stable, more configurable and has a smaller memory footprint than kwin plus I get to use my favorite emerald theme.
I was a diehard GNOME user for years and KDE hasn't got it completely right yet - for instance I think kate is just awful and prefer gedit for a gooey text editor. I've tried learning to like kate but so far haven't been successful.
But - I do like that KDE seems to have the integration that GNOME lacks for the most part.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
Thanks, its nice to have a conversation about both the goods and bads of *NIX that doesn't devolve into an argument. I think it is easier to have an open mind if you use software pragmatically as opposed to zealously following one sect or the other. I see this time and time again with BSD vs. GPL licensing debates. GPL advocates often see BSD-licensed code as too easily stolen and BSD advocates see GPL-licensed code as "infectious" and too restrictive. The reality is that a developer needs to weigh the different licenses and decide if they want the code free for anyone to take or if they want others to be required to share changes back with them.
By the way, I took a look at the feature sets for qtparted and gparted. There are some screenshots on the respective web pages. I know (k)ubuntu keeps low-level system tools to a minimum, but I would be shocked if neither of these were in the default repositories. Gparted definitely is more feature-rich, but if you don't need any of the extra features I would try QTparted first. Gparted would likely require extra gnome libraries if you are in KDE.
Also, if you want or need to do offline partition management, I would recommend using the Parted Magic live CD.
Lastly, it looks like NDS is still alive and running in SUSE Enterprise Server, but under the name eDirectory. I am not familiar with it, so I do not know if it does as good a job as Group Policy in Active Directory at managing settings for tons of machines remotely. There is also no price listed, and I believe it is sold separately from SUSE Enterprise, so it may also lose out on a cost standpoint.
Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
It has as start-button analog, a clock, you can move windows around with it, and the file manager type windows show you previews of your media files. Who cares what its called? Who cares which desktop you have as long as it does these things?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Since there exists:
Kubuntu (KDE)
Xubuntu (XFCE)
Lubuntu (LXDE)
and probably soon Gubuntu (GNOME),
it is good to see that Uubuntu will finally use a desktop environment starting with 'U'.
First Sunday of each month, eh?
So you don't apply kernel patches *right* away AND you seem to have a functioning social life?!
I am going after you just on principle! ;))
Why Do Gnome Needs to Bring this Gnome Shell Thingy?Ok..What I want to ask is, Give Us the Old Gnome Interface Lovers an Option.It Won't Harm.Pray tell Me!
"Thanks, its nice to have a conversation about both the goods and bads of *NIX that doesn't devolve into an argument." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Tuesday October 26, @12:57PM (#34026602) Homepage
Agreed, 110%, & you're welcome...
There is a LOT of that here (bad debates that degrade into total all-out flamewars &/or adhominem attacks instead of discussing facts), more than I have seen anyplace else online in fact.
I'm NOT above it, though I should NOT get "dragged into it". I just don't like being called names, or, seeing others try to distort facts or LIE...
See - The ONLY times I get "into it" with someone is if they take a "potshot" @ me first, as it was how I was raised (it stops "bullies", even if you get your face busted up a bit).
Online though? Well, then, I annihilate with facts once the ad-hominem attacks start (& occasionally, "righteous indignation").
BOTTOM-LINE TO ME:
I like both OS' families "in conflict" now (might as well be "general" about it, *NIX vs. Windows), & more than ever, because they're all pretty damned good now (*NIX variants, & Windows variants).
Personally speaking though, & this is just "theoretical speculation" here?
Well, what I brought up earlier on *NIX fragmentation @ binary compatibilities levels in the earliest branches (AT&T/Bell Labs UNIX vs. BSD mainly)?? Well, I figure if THAT didn't "go down"?? We'd ALL be running somekind of *NIX today in fact, & Microsoft/IBM (the main builders of the Win16/32/64 API really 'way back when') wouldn't have stood a chance.
---
"I think it is easier to have an open mind if you use software pragmatically as opposed to zealously following one sect or the other." - by wastedlife (1319259) on Tuesday October 26, @12:57PM (#34026602) Homepage
It is, and I think one would be sort of "foolish" to put all of ones "eggs into 1 basket" really (I go strictly into why after the "BOLD" part below, but I have a few things to say on the way as to why)...
I have seen where companies rise to a HUGE "high" and then sort of "plateau there" for decades - IBM being the main case/example I have to offer I suppose.
LOL, for them all, in these companies? I suppose it's like achieving "escape velocity" from the earth I suppose - you only have to get "so fast" to get there/achieve your goal (in business, the analog would be "get so big" I guess) before you achieve that goal.
(After all - If you're publicly held as a corporate body, and always yield the stockholders a decent dividend every payout period then, you've done your job... you can go on "glide" until the competition starts "catching up"... problem is? They usually do, given time).
E.G.-> MS & others took a BIG bite outta IBM, not so much @ the "big iron" level, but vs. their midrange systems like the AS/400 (OS400) zOS stuff (used to be System34/36/38 stuff)... this is an "example thereof" & I do really *think* this is going to start happening to Microsoft.
I sort of even hinted it to one of their senior mgt. (he posts here as Foredecker), because I've seen it before over time... but, it's not like IBM "disintegrated"... they are STILL a huge force! They're just not as "overall domineering" as they used to be, & @ ALL levels... same is happening to MS I feel, slowly, but it is.
Linux tore its "traditional UNIX" bretheren a new one (yes, MS did the same too to the IBM's, DEC, & Sun type *NIX companies), & is continuing to do so, but it is also slowly eroding MS's hold on "server-dom" @ the departmental & enterprise class server level also I think, & I finally again DO think that Linux @ home is VERY doable (I like KUbuntu 10.10 VERY much in fact).
WHERE WAS I GOING WITH ALL THAT?
Well, to keep safe & have MY "personal bases" covered? It's best to try to be fairly proficient with ALL the major Operating Systems & wares out there... for employment's sake
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34018050 by angloquebecer (1821728)
on Monday October 25, @05:35PM (#34018050)
Take a read, marsu k, & I suggest you quit operating on stale information & the past... things DO change you know, & my testimonial along with the fellow's there in the URL I just posted tends to "2nd my motion"...
Additionally, I didn't STOP there, I also posted about Linux XP, which DEFINITELY satisfied "Commodore64Love" the OP here's request (finding a Linux distro with an XP style interface & Linux XP over @ distrowatch DEFINITELY "fits that bill").
Have YOU been as helpful, or "on topic" regarding his requests? No - you've merely been a f'ing troll!
APK
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34018050 by angloquebecer (1821728)
on Monday October 25, @05:35PM (#34018050)
Take a read, marsu k, & I suggest you quit operating on stale information & the past... things DO change you know, & my testimonial along with the fellow's there in the URL I just posted tends to "2nd my motion"... apparently, you don't know as much as YOU like to *think* you do on computing.
Additionally?
Well, I didn't STOP there, I also posted about Linux XP here, and also for the OP too in another post directly to HE (commodore64 love) instead:
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34016492
Which DEFINITELY satisfied "Commodore64Love" the OP here's request (finding a Linux distro with an XP style interface & Linux XP over @ distrowatch DEFINITELY "fits that bill") & kept ME "on topic"...
Funny how you get modded up for your bullshit though, off topic crap that it is, and you also admit to having multiple registered accounts here as well below... figures (another 'thinks he is clever' little online weasel, in yourself - you're not fooling anyone with the b.s.!)
So, in the end?
Well - Have YOU been as helpful, or "on topic" regarding his requests? No - you've merely been a f'ing troll, marsu k... and others are noticing it, OR, agreeing w/ my statements also!
APK
P.S.=>
"Seriously, loosen the tinfoil, I think it's affecting the circulation to your brain. Could it be that the slashdot hive mind can have dissenting opinions?" - by marsu_k (701360) on Tuesday October 26, @02:33AM (#34021782)
Sure, but you don't have to be such a facetious little punk about it, as you have been. Little wise ass weasels like you wouldn't last 2 minutes where I am from, but then, that's the REAL world, not online where a little "wannabe" like you can "act the loud mouth" & get away with it... especially behind your b.s. handle/nick here.
The little "global conspiracy" crap you spouted above? If you tried to insinuate that to my face, or anyone else's around here? I guarantee you'd end up flat on your back, knocked out. Nobody around here, including the courts, tends to give a shit about weasels like you is why. Obviously, you've never had anyone fix your wagon for your antics (or you have in the real world AND now online? You can be your "real self": which is, obviously, a sarcastic little worm). You're the kind of little weasel whose women I bop and make you watch, lol, and while you do my yardwork for me.
This figures too, & I knew it:
"FWIW, yes, I am a "multiple registered account utilizing troll" - I registered around 2000 when I was living in .de, but forgot what my password was (and after I stopped working there, lost saved credentials on my work computer/the work e-mail address I used for registering), didn't bother to re-register for a while." - by marsu_k (701360) on Tuesday October 26, @02:33AM (#34021782)
Figures, & I was right on that too: Most guys who are worth their salt KNOW little trolls & weasels like you, & honestly? It's WHY we pity little fucks like you.
Ever wonder WHY women do NOT like you? This is why, look how you act!
(Additionally? Well, that fellow angloquebecer from the 1st URL I posted above's NOT the only one who agreed with myself here: wastedlife, another replier here, also agrees that the closest he knows to get to what commodore64 wanted is a Linux based on KDE also, see his posts here - see that 2nd url above in fact, to that effect & please, for your sake & the rest of us? GROW UP TROLL! You're little multiple account tricks don't fool us here!)... apk
First of all, your admission of you using multiple accounts says it all - your kind here or on any other forums? Lowest of the low.
Secondly, the facts with backing opinions from others in that discussion showed that your "opinion" was not just that - your "opinion" was a screwup on your part also, which indicates your bullshit is used to troll others here, but unfortunately, it also shows you know jack shit as well, and that your "information" is stale!
E.G.-> 3 others in that discussion there (see URL below) and myself know that KUbuntu is VERY NICE nowadays, especially since 10.04.1 (currently it's @ 10.10)... and, http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1837998&cid=34045504 also shows more folks at that discussion told you you were wrong about KUbuntu having hassles like you described as well.
In the end?? Quit trolling others, & don't shoot your mouth off where you clearly do NOT know what you're talking about!
See subject-line (& don't worry about brief replies, you did the MAIN thing needed here: You got me the information I needed, mostly (I just don't know SPECIFICALLY yet how libraries (dll analog in Windows) are handled vs. how they are in Win32/64, where you have a "std. oldschool DLL type" & the newer COM/OLE type DLL, which needs something called a GUID to register itself and to be "marshalled" (fancy term for loaded & used))).
I would write longer too today, but, I am in a "time pinch" myself (moving into a new home I purchased & that meant "downtime" online & in other things in life too)...
APK
P.S.=> Again though - bottom-line here? Thanks... apk