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USB Is the Devil's Connection
Jamie handed us Satan's Data Connection. You see, sane and rational human being, the
USB logo is actually in the shape of a trident, and the obvious action to Evangelical Christians in Brazil is to ban its use. Hopefully they don't mispronounce SCSI and find themselves lusting after their PCs.
A guy lying down carrying a briefcase and a pizza and... wait, never mind...
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
It doesn't matter, unless the cult has members who are also on the board of the USB-IF.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It always looked like the top half of a SciFi skeleton to me. I guess it's time to up my meds again.
But not because of any tridents. Because of too many variants of connectors.
And it can be a pita to implement for some things, teeny embedded ones for example. Not horrible, but just to set up serial port emulation can be fairly non-trivial. Although luckily people have written nice libs for a lot of things by now.
Sent from my PDP-11
The rest of us always called it "scuzzy", and thought Apple Marketing's attempt to rebrand it as "sexy" was just lame.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
A trident tested measure of faith.
...that the peace symbol was the Christian cross upside down with the arms broken off! OMG, Satanic message!
Really? Jesus was born in the middle east and had blue eyes?
Either way, though, Bluetooth was of course named for a Danish King. While he himself converted to Christianity he certainly ruled over a nontrivial number of non-Christian followers.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
iLink 1394 Blasphemers!
1394 - 728 = 666
This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
+1 Insightful
They have no problem with runic alphabets?
Make sure you don't install any SATAn drives either!
I wonder what they'd have to say about FireWire
Unfortunately, nowhere in the Bible does Satan ever have a trident. But this is Slashdot... sigh let the Christian bashing begin if it must! :(
Perhaps you should explain that to the Evangelical Christians in Brazil.
Forks have no place the cathedral, they belong to the bazaar.
The article even says it is unconfirmed "if this turns up on Snopes don't blame me." Even with my sucky karma I expect better of /.
The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: Those with brains, but no religion, And those with religion, but no brains.”
- Abul Ala Al-Maarri
So I only need to whip out a laptop or USB stick to keep the bible thumpers away?
It is news like this that gives evangelical Christians a bad rep. I suppose that these Brazilian Christians were thinking about the "mark of the beast" in the book of Revelation, in which it states that in the Great Tribulation, only those with the mark of the beast can participate in commerce and those who refuse to have the mark of the beast (newly converted Jewish believers) will be persecuted by the society because they can't buy or sell anything. There is nothing in the Scriptures about Satan having a trident thingy or that he is red or anything like that. In fact, it says that he can appear as an angel of light that appears righteous, etc. But nothing about the stereotypical evil look.
Some were yelling one thing, some another. Most of them had no idea what was going on or why they were there. Acts19:32
I seriously doubt they'll behead anyone.......
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
!news
It happens all the time, its what happens people are fanatical, not really sure why this is news, even on slashdot. Giving them attention just furthers their behavior.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
This is good news!
Just think, if scientology somehow found the keyboard to be a derivative of the devil / whatever-their-evil-avatar-is, the internet would be a much more comforting place also...
But on another note, do these people know that most computers come with the USB symbol next to the port intended for their devil-plugs? I guess there is nothing preventing them from banning most computers!
...
Users over there really shouldn't despair, there are usb-to-firewire adapters out there...that way they can send the devilish signal back into the fire-filled hell where it belongs!
We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
One particular group of nutcases (who may or may not even actually exist) != "the evangelical Christians in Brazil".
The evangelical cult "Peace Beloved of the Lord" in the interior of Brazil forbids its followers to use any USB technology by contending that it uses a symbol that makes apology to the devil.
According to its founder, the Apostle "Welder Saldanha says that this is just a symbol of Satan, is always present in all Christian homes.
"The symbol of that name (he even likes to pronounce) is a trident, which is used to torture souls go to hell. Use only a symbol of those shows that all users of this technology pífia are actually worshipers of Satan "- explains the " Apostle. "
Measures were taken so that all the USB connections of his followers were exchanged for common connections and even the Bluetooth (sic), which according to Saldanha Welder is permitted, for "Blue was the color of the eyes of our savior Jesus Christ" .
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
And Steve Jobs was resurrected as God.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Serial ATA, Networked. Put that all together, you have something worse than USB :P
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Because it's symmetrical. Who but the most evil cabal of engineers on earth would design such a connector to be a perfect rectangle? Without looking closely you have a 50/50 chance of getting the correct orientation.
Everything in computing from an RJ45 to IEEE 1397 have a obvious shape you can identify the correct orientation from.
Yes, yes. I know the trident is supposed to go "up" in relation to the trident logo by port on the port. But this varies randomly from one manurfacturer to another, from device to device, and thats those that have the trident logo next to the port at all.
Mini-B USB, popular for small gadgets, thank god, has an identfiable orientation.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I stabbed a guy in the heart...with a (USB) trident!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
2. apple loves it, and the apple was the fobidden fruit in the garden of evil.
The first apple computer sold for $666.66.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
n/t
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
They are evangelical Christians in Brazil. They are not the only evangelical Christians in Brazil, but the GP's "the" can easily refer to "the evangelical Christians in Brazil who believe this crap."
So yeah, this is just one group of nutcases, but they refer to themselves as evangelical Christians, and one cannot arbitrarily define them as "no true Scots^W evangelical Christians" just because they're nutcases.
the number of the beast is 616. The next(or may the recent one?) printing of KJB will have the correct translation.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
yes that is a completely different set of nutcases.
This EU symbol is a circle of 12 yellow stars surrounding the country designation, they are adamant this is part of a Roman Catholic conspiracy to take back the world for Satan (the Bishop of Rome, also known as The Pope).
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
The article's author says he hasn't found anything to back it up. The Brazilian article itself specifically says that it's an "evangelical cult."
But of course some cult rumored to be doing something bizarre isn't as sensational as generalizing it to all evangelical Christians in Brazil. The linked article's author is guilty of this, and Taco is guilty of repeating it. There's no question in my mind that the point is just to poke more fun at religion, in this case, for no good reason at all.
Your brain is not a computer.
Only the devils tool could explain the harm IE has caused the world..
you can spell Satan with a keyboards, maybe they should stay the hell off the internet?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I hear it has a lot of daemons.
Firewire is how we will burn USB at the stake?
Or Dionysus, the god of both wine AND ecstasy. And let's face it, who hasn't gotten really drunk and tried to have sex with their computer?
Monstar L
who hasn't gotten really drunk and tried to have sex with their computer?
*raises hand*
I'd raise two, but my other is busy.
which is totally what she said
There's no question in my mind that the point is just to poke more fun at religion, in this case, for no good reason at all.
Poking fun at religion is a good reason in its own right. Mockery is the best response to silliness.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
USB does try hard though...now at SuperSpeed revision...SS...in many places that still resonates strongly with Schutzstaffel (also...)
One that hath name thou can not otter
I see the connection here!
In a sane society
Sounds like you too believe in fairy tales.
explain that to the Evangelical Christians
In Evangelical Russia, Christians explain to YOU!
Actually, I have met a few (a handful) of real Christians in my life. They stood out because of their deeds, not their words, and never tried force their religion on me. One was an ear, nose and throat doctor, who closed his private practice for two weeks every year. Instead of spending the time on the golf course, he went to god-awful places on the planet, and did volunteer work for the World Health Organization.
The Mormons who proselytize where I live tend to be very polite, well. They introduce themselves, tell you what they are doing, and when you say that you are not interested, they answer: "OK, thank you, and have a nice day."
Now a question for our Brazilian folks: If I am approached by a Brazilian Evangelical Christian, can I hold up a USB stick with a trident to scare them away. Like a cross scares away vampires?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
In a sane society, we would allow others the freedom to be wrong and not shun them because we disagree with their beliefs.
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
How evil can you get?
so when it connects is there a devil's handshake involved?
Yeah, symbols are powerful. I once bought a t-shirt with a sort logo-like cartoon of a baker man with the logo "Freshly Baked" underneath. The VERY NEXT DAY I was shooting heroin and selling my underage sister for drug money. The shirt was obviously the work of Satan and the reason I'm now posting on /. from underneath an overpass bridge in my underwear.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Most of the Pantheon shows up in the devil. Don't forget Prometheus, the light bringer (aka Lucifer).
Support SETI@home
Also, OS X and BSD promote evolution, the devil, as covered by Objective Ministries.
Measures were taken so that all the USB connections of his followers were exchanged for common connections and even the Bluetooth (sic), which according to Saldanha Welder is permitted, for "Blue was the color of the eyes of our savior Jesus Christ"
Bluetooth is the one using a pagan blind rune as its symbol and they are all excited about using it. Come on, next thing you know you'll see christens celebrating pagan holidays.
It's obviously a double amputee woman carrying a purse.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
From .:
The letter PSI can also be a symbol for:
psychology, psychiatry, and sometimes parapsychology (involving paranormal or relating with the supernatural subjects, especially research into extrasensory perception).
In mathematics, the reciprocal Fibonacci constant.
Water potential in movement of water between plant cells.
In biochemistry, it denotes the rare nucleotide pseudouridilic acid.
Stream function in fluid mechanics defining the curve to which the flow velocity is always tangent.
One of the dihedral angles in the backbones of proteins
The planet Neptune
The Schrödinger equation and throughout quantum mechanics, PSI(x) stands for the wave function
Indiana University (as a superimposed I and U)
Gangster Disciples
A Sai, the name of which is pronounced the same way.
Pharmacology, general pharmacy
In virology the PSI site is a viral packaging signal.
The PSI meson, in particle physics.
In the Computability Theory, PSIP(x)\,\! represents the return value Y\,\! of a program P\,\!.
In the comic Monochrome, Psi is a mentally disturbed character, though her name is usually spelled out.
In the television show Babylon 5, PSI is the symbol of the Psi Corps.
Hey, that's a lot of uses for a trident!
Where did I suggest we shun anyone?
The translation of Saldanha's quote is quite lousy, so here goes a slightly better one, free of charge: "The symbol of you-know-what (he doesn't even like to pronounce its name) is a trident, which is used to torture hell-bound souls. Using such a symbol merely shows that all users of this lame technology are actually satan worshippers". Anyway, this great piece of news apparently came from a Brazilian comedy blog, http://bobolhando.com.br/ (the site's name is itself a joke, combining the words "bobo olhando", which could be translated as "fool looking at"). Regards from the Banana Republik!
"Philosophy of science is about as useful to scientists as ornithology is to birds" -Feynman
Are YOU the reason they had to come up with the micro-USB connector, just so it would fit?
A few years ago was the 50th anniversary of the symbol, and the guy who designed it was being interviewed on BBC radio. He said that the John Birch Society tried to portray it as an anti-Christian symbol, but that was nonsense.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Let's see: the symbol of Christianity is an ancient device of execution and torture.
Seems to me it's pretty clear who is using "the devil's" symbology.
Ha! You're wrong. The devil does have a trident. I have proof right here!
Knowledge Brings Fear
Who am I kidding, your invisible friend is not real and religious folks really are just practicing magical thinking. In a sane society we would offer them mental help not let religious leaders steal their money and abuse their children.
Don't worry, I'll be praying for them to get better...
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Satan stole his Trident!
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
jobs being a golden cow, worshipped by the masses
And in the bottom image, is it not a snake wrapped around and guarding the window to eden? And does the ad not ask us to circle 42, to imprison the meaning of live, too keep us away from knowledge and wisdom?
I have to ask, does the act of pointing out stupidity and its damage to society count as christian bashing? Because I would like to point out that this christian group is acting stupid and damaging society.
Hey, look! It's Bono's brother.
USB is obnoxious. It's like US power plugs. "oh, I'm going to plug this in, crap doesn't fit, gotta turn it around." How hard would it have been to make USB not rectangular so I don't have a 50/50 chance (and what really seems like a 10% chance) of getting it plugged in right the first time?
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Just ask anyone whose systems were infected with Stuxnet - these Brazilian evangelicals are right.
Oh gosh... does a 'lol' satisfy as a response? Perhaps that will be thought to be a devilish symbol too...
++
That's it--we have now reached the critical mass of human stupidity. There's just no hope for us any more.
A clever person solves a problem, A wise person avoids it. -Einstein
I smell a tale of utter bullshit. This just sends my bullshit-detector ringing.. cant quite point out why.. Other then the fact.. Nowhere does Satan have a trident.. Polearm perhaps, scythe maybe.. not trident..
Also.. the last comment about bluetooth? naah sounds like the article is a bit of a hoax put out there by someone in the Brazilian media. For reasons unknown.
--
CelticKnight
From the cross, to the pentagram, to whatever - there should be no symbol, or anything you worship. This group is a cult and not a mainstream group in anyway shape or form!!! But the only bad guys these days are Christians, attack any other group and your seen as a bigot... Attack or mock Christians and your seen edgy, and hip. Easy to attack a group that is suppose to forgive you!!
Brazil? The same government that allowed mass executions of prisoners..most of which were still awaiting trial. If you are wondering what Im getting at Look up Pavilhão Nove. People who are that superstitious are simple minded and don't deserve the time of day. Good luck keeping up with technology, oh yea, that's right, you are too busy murdering people to pull your head out and see the world for what it is.
Slashdot posts a story with a reference to an article derived from a news article on a Brazilian web site about a Brazilian protestant evangelical cult (notice: each word is deepening the specialization).
In related news: A slashdot user clicks this article so he can read a funny generalization and thus laugh at all religious people because of it.
/sarcasm Mod ignorance up. Only the non-religious are the true paragons of morality. /snicker
(Stalin is quoted as saying "You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" in E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin, Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940)
The atheists are just as ignorant of reality as the theists. At least the agnostic have the honesty to admit they DON'T KNOW, which is the first sign of TRUE knowledge. (Of course only the mystic sees the incompleteness in the other three, and laughs inwardly at the atheist blind man telling the other religious blind man that he can't see.)
> really are just practicing magical thinking.
Do Scientists have an answer for the "magical thinking" of the placebo effect yet?? I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that thinking has no effect on changing reality when you don't a) understand what is thinking, thought or consciousness, and b) don't understand the true nature of reality.
> religious leaders steal their money and abuse their children.
Right! Let's toss the baby out with the bathwater! Simply because we have a few religious nuts who are too spiritually stupid to even understand what their religion is about. Every religion teaches the "Golden Rule." The fact that you have some stupid Catholic priests to stupid to even understand why Marriage is the foundation of the original Trinity relationship - father, mother, child - is completely irrelevent to your rant.
How about we simply hold up common sense values regardless of what beliefs a person choses to practise??
The bottom line, there are lot of good people, and lot of ignorant people, religious or not, theist or atheist.
--
Inner Space not Outer Space is the FINAL frontier.
No, Steve Jobs is a golden cow maker. Someone has to create and satisfly a market for golden cows, y'know. Those things don't appear on their own.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Measures were taken so that all the USB connections of his followers were exchanged for common connections and even the Bluetooth (sic), which according to Saldanha Welder is permitted, for "Blue was the color of the eyes of our savior Jesus Christ".
I was also wondering about the above quote. I don't recall anything in the Bible about Jesus having blue eyes. I kind of always assumed he had brown eyes, since most, though not all, people of Jewish heritage have brown eyes. Is a blue-eyed-Jesus supported Biblically?
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
And in the bottom image, is it not a snake wrapped around and guarding the window to eden?
Yes, but look at where the apple is hanging: Over someone's head. That's clearly Isaac Newton, who lives outside Eden. We're looking through the window from the other side. The snake is there to keep us from leaving Eden for the land of the IBM-compatible where mean-spirited trees will pelt you with fruit. Or something. Early Apple advertising tended to be a bit eclectic.
And does the ad not ask us to circle 42, to imprison the meaning of live, too keep us away from knowledge and wisdom?
That's just Apple trying to maximise their profits by delaying the destruction of Earth. Remember, Earth will be destroyed directly after the question to the answer has been found. By imprisoning the answer, Apple is trying to keep people from arriving at the question, thus abusing a loophole in how the story works in order to keep the Vogons at bay.
Arthur Dent has been asked about his opinion and commented that since he can't die before the whole thing has even started, he won't object if we keep stalling for another century or two. He also likes the fact that the construction workers in front of his house haven't been able to commence tearing it down for the last thirty-two years.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Where did I suggest we shun anyone?
Actually you suggested not letting religious leaders steal their money. The stealing that they're doing is pretty much just a matter of asking for offerings based on false doctrines. Stopping that implies a level of coercive control quite a bit beyond "shunning".
Also, it may be reasonable for you to conjecture that other people's gods are unreal. However, since the idea of 'God' is largely an interpretation of internal experiences, and you don't have access to anyone's internal experience except your own, you're only guessing that other people's interpretations are delusional. That may be a reasonable guess, given the evidence you have. But its a guess, and there is a huge variety to human experience. Yours is actually a religious attitude, just an atheistic one, which is why ex-atheists like C. S. Lewis often make such marvelous religious crusaders.
Even the original article refers to it as an "evangelical cult."
Hey, I heard about this scientist who proves things using a "scientific method" but his method is logically faulty. But since he claims to be a scientist, and claims his method is the "scientific method," I guess it's true; therefore, I guess other scientists are the same way. After all, one scientist can't use the "not a true Scotsman" argument. If I claim to be a scientist, I am one!
The funny thing is, I don't see who is claiming to be an "evangelical Christian." I see "evangelical cult" and "Christian homes," but "evangelical Christian" is NOT used in the original; that was apparently interpreted by the Guardian.
The article states they are a cult, not Christians. But either way carry on.
its only one letter away...
But of course some cult rumored to be doing something bizarre isn't as sensational as generalizing it to all evangelical Christians in Brazil.
I think you're missing the point. Evangelical Christians are, by definition, always a cult doing something bizarre.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The atheists are just as ignorant of reality as the theists. At least the agnostic have the honesty to admit they DON'T KNOW
In practice the difference between atheists and agnostics are none, both conclude there is and can never be no credible evidence (how can you provide evidence of something you cannot define in clear non-supernatural terms, same reason you cannot provide proof that there is none) and so the assertion that there is a god is deemed false.
Your mistake is that you think atheists declare there is proof there is no god, they never will, in essence agnostics are just 'politically correct' atheists.
The rules of science and logic indicate that there must be some kind of basis (either in substance or in thought) for an assertion or else it must be denied. An assertion without evidence is not accepted as true, this is the default position. The position that defines what critical thought is. Critical thought is not believing things you are told unless there is evidence to back it up.
Without critical thought logic and science are abandoned, and this is the only kind of productive thought humanity has ever come up with.
Dealing with illogical people can be a serious pain at times, thusly why we try put some kind of reason into them.
The only kind of theists I have respect for are the ones who recognize there can never be proof of their 'god' and that it is entirely based upon their own faith (faith being the belief in something without logic or evidence). People are entitled to believe whatever they want, but they should not make false claims.
Trident = wielded by Neptune (or Poseidon),
Pitchfork (most often with 4 or more tines) = only sometimes wielded by Satan in humorous caricatures
Have gnu, will travel.
-- Soup Nazi. release 2.0
I don't care! My data are protected from evil in my cross usb drive!
FiloEleven finds a factual flaw in the article. Creedo says that doesn't matter because he agrees with the idea of mocking religion. Who gets marked as the troll, and who gets marked as insightful?
(awaits the reply to this, which will no-doubt be marked as insightful, while this is marked down as troll)
I meant "I've always called it 'scuzzy'..." of course...
I'm brazillian. For those who did not read TFA - well... The original site linked by TFA only publish made up funny news.
From the site:
Um site chamado "Bobolhando", não deve ser levado à sério!
Se copiar, credite, ok?
subjective translation:
A site named "Idiotting" should not be taken seriously!
Perhaps someone should explain to you this story is bogus.
Unfortunately, nowhere in the Bible does Satan ever have a trident. But this is Slashdot... sigh let the Christian bashing begin if it must! :(
Perhaps you should explain that to the Evangelical Christians in Brazil.
FiloEleven finds a factual flaw in the article. Creedo says that doesn't matter because he agrees with the idea of mocking religion. Who gets marked as the troll, and who gets marked as insightful?
(awaits the reply to this, which will no-doubt be marked as insightful, while this is marked down as troll)
Sigh. The wrong one is marked as troll, and the wrong one as insightful. And your insightful comment stays at zero.
I'm getting tired of slashdot - any good substitutes?
That's right, the country famous for having a huge statue of Jesus and a lot of Christians. The evangelicals thought they could set up a franchise or two and milk them for a bit of cash with Christianity Lite.
That's not an original argument, and it's common for believers to trot out the "atheists believe in no god, hence atheism is a religion" meme. It doesn't hold water because there are a plethora of gods that most people don't believe in (eg Thor, Neptune, etc) for the good reason that there's no evidence of their existence. Does that make them subscribers to the church of anti-Thor, or anti-Neptune, etc? Atheists believe that the lack of evidence for gods makes it reasonable to disbelieve, in the same way as most people would disbelieve in Burtrand Russel's teapot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot). If atheists are religious in their atheism, then all people are religious in their disbelief of the teapot, the FSM, Thor, ....
Now, you may argue that one can have 'faith' in the absence of evidence. That's fine. But please don't argue that disbelieving in something because there is no evidence of its existence is an unreasonable position.
...I can kinda understand their sentiment. After all, the computer I just built has me committing idolatry. :3
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
the reason is that some religious people are trying to undermine logic and science in the vain hope that this will bolster both their arguments and their followers. For simplicity, let's say there are two positions here. One relies on evidence and experiment to draw conclusions about the world. The other, in the absence of evidence, relies on faith to believe in an invisible being while simultaneously trying to undermine the ideas of reason, logic and experimentation _in_general_. Who deserves our support? While I agree that religion doesn't make people evil, I do think that the conviction that one has the support of a deity, that one's friends are _good_ and one's enemies _evil_ is a very good way to get people to do terrible things. This is (in my opinion, incontrovertibly) one of the consequences of religious belief in some people, and the reason why I think the world would be better off without religion. In summary, religion encourages one more "them and us" style of thinking. One of my favourite quotes is by Charlotte Bronte: "conventionality is not morality".
Yours is actually a religious attitude, just an atheistic one
Suggesting that atheism is a religion is like saying that bald is a hair color.
I'm getting tired of slashdot - any good substitutes?
Digg?
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
But please don't argue that disbelieving in something because there is no evidence of its existence is an unreasonable position.
Atheism is not an unreasonable position. I made it clear in my post that I consider it to be a reasonable position. The kind of arrogant intolerance implied by the poster I was responding to is unreasonable however.
If you have no evidence of God, then it would be unreasonable for you to believe in God. (Some people argue you should believe to cover your ass just in case, but I consider that cowardice.) Moreover its reasonable to assume that the people who claim to have externally unverifiable evidence of God are deluded or lying, since they're clearly deluded or lying about all kinds of other verifiable things. But many thoughtful people's ideas about God are much more nuanced and consistent with objective reality than any flying spaghetti monster or other such straw men. So it is unreasonable to subject their gods to the same degree of ridicule. Ostensibly the straw men are equivalent to other gods, because all are equal in lacking evidence for their existence. But there is the simple, easily controllable and repeatable kind of evidence that scientists deal so effectively with, and there is subtler, more difficult to pin down evidence at the margins, where certainty starts to break down. For a person who has actually made a serious consideration of the issue, and isn't just getting off on glibly dismissing theists as morons, it is unreasonable to consider all of the gods as equally unlikely or equally unreal. Certainly all theists are at least somewhat mistaken about their gods, but that doesn't necessarily make them completely mistaken. By all means disbelieve in their gods: that is reasonable. But it is unreasonable not to leave the door open a little bit to discovering something new. Its that kind of closed-mindedness, combined with an implied authoritarianism, that I was commenting on. I have no beef with sincere atheists.
Atheism is not a religion. And not all atheists have a theist-like penchant for making stuff up and declaring it the truth. But some do. I was commenting on one particular class of atheists, not on atheists in general.
Well, the issue is that noone aside from actual evangelical christians even seem to know what the word "evangelical" means anymore. Any time you see it in the media, it generally indicates something that is to be ridiculed.
Nevermind that it IS a strictly christian word, and refers to the focus on the "evangel", that is the gospel of Jesus, and has absolutely nothing to do with any of the crazy stuff its been penned as as of late. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism.
Reminds me a story of an IT company that installed FreeBSD on a church's server. The priest went mad!
See, the way I see it, is the way it's written in the Christian's bible: "The devil may also quote scripture." So these evangelical fucks are just grandstanding. Give them no attention.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Sigh. The wrong one is marked as troll, and the wrong one as insightful. And your insightful comment stays at zero.
I'm getting tired of slashdot - any good substitutes?
Maybe it's because the rest of the world is getting increasingly tired of the rampant irrational stupidity that religion brings to the table, and we are more and more willing to mock those who keep pushing it. Religion in general is a childish and immature response to life, and I for one believe that it should be treated as such.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Most of interesting stuff shows up in him.
One that hath name thou can not otter
Well, look at the bright side. If you bring in the Hindu pantheon, the trident is the weapon of choice of Shiva, the fantawesome god of destruction and assorted goodness.
As I have pointed out elsewhere, IBM's PS/2 mouse port and protocol is obviously the invention of the Devil.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it. -Upton Sinclair" fits within the 120 character limit and properly credits the originator.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
There's no question in my mind that the point is just to poke more fun at religion, in this case, for no good reason at all.
Poking fun at religion is a good reason in its own right. Mockery is the best response to silliness.
Yes I find that when a large mob comes with sinister instruments designed to torcher, mame or kill me, that responding to accusations with "You big silly" is the wisest move.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Yes I find that when a large mob comes with sinister instruments designed to torcher, mame or kill me, that responding to accusations with "You big silly" is the wisest move.
Well, yeah, if they showed up in person, I would be more likely to reach for something with a bit more bite(or bang, as the case may be) than mockery. But, this being the internet and all, ridicule will do nicely.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
There seems to be an entirely different construct in Atheism as a religion and Atheism as in I don't believe there is a god.
What your missing is the reasonable, I don't believe your god exists being confused with a god doesn't exist. Those are not the same comments at all.
You see, your going from atheism to what is essentially a religious view when you move from, I'm not convinced to I know there isn't. If your making the simple I'm not convinced a god exist, you are doing the traditional atheism. But when you are making an acertive statement about the existence of god, most likely using science to back it up, you have become a religious zealot in the same way others are.
BTW, the UN declaration on human rights lists Atheism as a protected religion for a human right. SO at least for classification purposes, it's a religion as recognized by the world. But make no mistake, once you go from I'm not convinced to trying to justify there there is no, you have gone from the absence of evidence to a belief system no different then a religion.
Poking fun at religion is a good reason in its own right. Mockery is the best response to silliness.
I would agree if religion were just silliness. It isn't. It is horribly damaging. The key teaching of religions is that believing in things that are provably false is a virtue. They call it faith. What's worse is that the more absurd a thing that you can believe in the more virtuous you are. A person who believes that the earth is literally about 7,000 years old has much stronger faith than a person who equivocates and says that Genesis is metaphorical. Faith is the one basic teaching that is at the root of so much suffering. It leads directly to fundamentalism. Fundamentalist Islam is the Taliban, and the intensely repressive regimes in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. Fundamentalist Judaism believes that despite being largely absent for a thousand or so years they have a right given them by some sky guy to possess to the exclusion of all others a bit of real estate at the East end of the Mediterranean Sea. Christian fundamentalists lead America into unwinnable wars that sap our spirits and drain our treasury. Fundamentalist personality cult is the twisted crap that has lead to decades of starvation and tyranny in North Korea.
Please teach your children this: if you have seen it proven then believe it until you see it dis-proven. Be skeptical about everything else.
-- QED
Some over-reach with the argument. They may just not understand the philosophy of atheism or they might have met too many of that subset of atheists that actually do seem to have an anti-religion complete with faith as it's basis and an urge to proselytize to any who will listen.
Did anybody try to inform them how the "devout" Catholics are quite often also anti-EU?
One that hath name thou can not otter
"So yeah, this is just one group of nutcases..."
If they even exist. Even the author of the story admitted that no one has confirmed the authenticity of this story. This is just an urban legend, reported as news.
Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
Poking fun at religion is a good reason in its own right. Mockery is the best response to silliness.
I would agree if religion were just silliness. It isn't. It is horribly damaging. The key teaching of religions is that believing in things that are provably false is a virtue. They call it faith. What's worse is that the more absurd a thing that you can believe in the more virtuous you are. A person who believes that the earth is literally about 7,000 years old has much stronger faith than a person who equivocates and says that Genesis is metaphorical. Faith is the one basic teaching that is at the root of so much suffering. It leads directly to fundamentalism. Fundamentalist Islam is the Taliban, and the intensely repressive regimes in Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. Fundamentalist Judaism believes that despite being largely absent for a thousand or so years they have a right given them by some sky guy to possess to the exclusion of all others a bit of real estate at the East end of the Mediterranean Sea. Christian fundamentalists lead America into unwinnable wars that sap our spirits and drain our treasury. Fundamentalist personality cult is the twisted crap that has lead to decades of starvation and tyranny in North Korea. Please teach your children this: if you have seen it proven then believe it until you see it dis-proven. Be skeptical about everything else.
I agree completely. But you treat my offhand comment as if it is the only response we should make. The silliness of religion should be mocked in many situations while at the same time more serious attacks are leveled in more appropriate venues. Sometimes a jeer is a more effective tool than an essay.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
that this pitch fork thing was true
Bill Gates was the devil
jesus was an architect previous to his career as an open source developer
all of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world
so there was only one thing that I could do
was ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Are you really surprised?
The group mentality here is that Religion has done nothing good for the world while causing great ills and that Science does the exact opposite. Both claims are demonstrably false, but it's pointless to try and point out the good that religion has done. The ills of science are a little more accepted, but only slightly so.
Let me be clear: I take no issue with mocking the cult's wacky beliefs. What I take issue with is the misinformation in the summary that paints a much larger group as being completely irrational and that much of the "conversation" here is general religion-bashing; due in part to the atheist zealots who are even more vigilant of possible soapboxes than their religious counterparts, and due in part to the misleading headline. If you equate the belief in a supreme being with the belief that USB is the devil's connection then you are as much a zealot as those in the cult, and the fact that the reader is led to believe that this measure is backed by all Christians in Brazil shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity.
Feel free to abuse the moderation system and mark this Troll as well so that the Two Minutes Hate may continue uninterrupted.
Your brain is not a computer.
"Religious" and "nuts" are two words that fit perfectly together.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Well to use a cliche, some of my best friends are Christians. But...
As of 2008, 76% of the US population self-identifies as Christian, with about 4% as "other" religions. About 15% self-identifies with None/No religion. The final 5% responded "don't know/refuse" so we'll ignore them.
So what's the make up of the US Congress? Well, it's 86.6% Christian, 12.4% "other" and 0.9% unknown. Pete Sark may be an agnostic, or some such, but had to back peddle and say he is a Unitarian. In short, Christians and Jews are overrepresented in elected government while (openly) non-believers can not get elected.
Many of these representatives belong to powerful Christian organizations which influence not only US law, but also the laws of other nations (see Senator James Inhofe and the draconian anti-gay legislation of Uganda, or the abortion gag rule that every Republican president uses to limit funding of NGOs, etc.). And then there is the ongoing folly about sex education, evolution, and the age of the universe that is a constant (and seemingly losing) battle in US school systems. Plus the uses of leviticus to argue against gay marriage (but not to enforce other "laws", oddly). The adding of "In God We Trust" to coins in the 1860s, making that the national motto in 1956, and changing the pledge to include "one country under God" in 1956. Now used by some as evidence that we were founded as a Christian nation. All in a country with a supposed separation of church and state. And yet many Christians feel persecuted...
As an agnostic, I get really tired of hearing about people "doing God's work" or how "God is their moral compass" and other implications that people with different (or significantly reduced) magical thinking can not be moral or trust worthy. I also get really tired of huge social battles and the restricting of personal freedoms based on taking the Bible "partially literally." I say partially, because if we took it literally we would not be much different from several Middle Eastern countries. Depending on whether one wants to focus on the vengeance or the forgiveness bits (but there is a lot of vengeance...) So while it may not be the most mature response, some people feel inclined to verbally poke back at the apparent insanity of our society.
Some privacy policy Slashdot.
Well it's not that there never could be evidence of god, if god does exist and possesses the powers various religions claim that he does, then he could very easily prove his existence should he want to, and faced with undeniable proof most agnostics would be forced to start believing.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Because if you look carefully you'll notice that the four colored squares leave a greek cross in the middle.
And I'm not pulling the abvious FreeBSD in.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
You cannot prove an infinite claim. Even if a man who called himself god came flying down and brought people back from the dead, the bible claims he can do anything, how can you prove that? say blow up mars and bring it back? still doesn't prove he can do anything.
Great claims require great evidence. Infinte claims require infinite evidence. Which nobody can give.
But how else would I annoy people like you?
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
The evangelic cult "Paz do Senhor Amado" does not exist. Search Google for it, you'll find nothing but phrases from other religions. It's just a hoax from a website called bobolhando (stupid staring), never intended to be a serious post..
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
With infinite power, he could merely alter your mind to make you believe...
Although you do have a point, science today would appear to be godlike powers to someone living 2000 years ago.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
SCSI was _meant_ to be pronounced like "sexy".
I think you've really missed the thrust of the arguement. The lack of belief in a god is not the suggestion - in fact that would not qualify as atheism, more agnosticism (which is what I personally subscribe to). Instead, he's commenting on a fervent belief in a lack of God. Not only has that belief been displayed here by h4rr4r, but he has also shown many other tenets of religon, such as the statement that his unprovable belief is somehow more correct that someone elses (see point 3 of the op).
Remember lack of belief in God =/= belief in a lack of God.
The conception of Jesus was an act of adultery. So instead of "sanctifying marriage" it sanctifies adultery.
it is hard to say where this myth originated.
Indeed there seems to be no way to confirm or deny this story which has gone around the world... for a few months now. I'm in the state of Sao Paulo. I did several Google searches to find anything at all about the origin of this story. The city or town is not mentioned, only the name of the pastor. Couldn't find his name anywhere other than news stories - which are everywhere, seems like it makes for good scary shock-content news snippets. Didn't find that name in phone books. Of course it's common for people here to have no website, internet commenters or mentions, or listed phone in their name. And to say off-the-wall, insane things to fools in evangelical churches too. But the name or town for this temple/church/whatever seems to be mentioned nowhere. There is just a somewhat uncommon pastor's name, somewhere in the most populous state in Brazil. I could start searching credit records for the name, but that'll cost me money.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I suspect, how shall I put this, a group somewhat far afield from mainstream evangelicalism.
The ills of science are a little more accepted, but only slightly so.
This is the first time I've heard mention of the ills of science.
Who is providing your bandwidth?
and I guess eSATA(n) is out too... wonder what the safe way to attach external storage devices is.
I remember when the same sort of crazies were going around proclaiming UNIX was evil because it was full of daemons and used the secret code "chmod 666" on your files...
Truly- Just say you are an ex-Jehovah Witness, and they'll have to follow their training: which is to shun you!
Shunning someone, means 'to keep away from' that person.
http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/tag/shunning
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Unfortunately, nowhere in the Bible does Satan ever have a trident. But this is Slashdot... sigh let the Christian bashing begin if it must! :(
True. However, the Book of Revelations does refer to Satan's realm as Hades. The early Christians carried a lot of baggage from ancient Rome and thereby from ancient Greece. The Roman god of the underworld, Pluto (Greek = Hades) was frequently depicted carrying a bident - a two pronged staff. As any reader of the Percy Jackson series knows, the trident is carried by Hades' brother, the god of the sea (Roman name = Neptune, Greek = Poseidon).
Since Pluto/Hades was the god of the underworld, he became associated with Satan in many early Christians' minds, and the Book of Revelations referred to the underworld as Hades. At some point, for reasons unknown to me, some depictions of Pluto/Hades began to carry the trident. I guess it's cooler. Or maybe crueler. Hence the Satan - trident connection.
"Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him." Revelation 6:8, New International Version, also New American Bible.
"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." Revelation 20:14, New International Version, also New American Bible.
For another fine example of the early Christians inheriting from the ancient Romans and Greeks, take a look at the 1633 trial of Galileo for heresy for suggesting that his observations prove the Earth revolves around the Sun. The bible never says explicitly that the Sun revolves around the Earth (though the creation story is implicitly terracentric), but the Church, through its tradition of Scholasticism, was at the time still committed to many of the theories of Aristotle who explicitly supported the implicit terracentrism of the bible. Aristotle/Scholasticism won the early rounds, but today Galileo and the scientific method are the heavyweight tag-team champs, and the Catholic church has admitted is error vis-a-vis Galileo.
--- Often in error; never in doubt!
you treat my offhand comment as if it is the only response we should make.
Didn't mean it that way, it just seemed like a nice springboard quote to give me a chance to say my fill.
-- QED
boboolhando.com ("Fool Staring") -> Guardian -> Slashdot Doesn't anyone investigate? One of the most important teachings of the Bible is to investigate what one says before believing. Like the people from the church in Bereah. Anyone who believes something without verifying it first isn't being very smart. Christian or not.
Yours is actually a religious attitude, just an atheistic one
Suggesting that atheism is a religion is like saying that bald is a hair color.
This boils down to semantics based on how you define the word "religious". One definition of religion could be "belief system" and not necessarily involve a god or gods. It wouldn't make sense to say bald was a hair color, but it might make sense to call it a hair style. I guess in that analogy agnostics just never look in the mirror :-)
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
Brazilian here.
Except that the whole thing appears to be some guy trolling. Let's get to the facts:
- The site (http://bobolhando.com.br) where the original article in portuguese in published is but a small blog, apparently run by a single individual. I've never heard about it also.
- The "source" cited at the end of the article is a Twitter account
- The Guardian seems to have picked on the story (don't ask me why)
- The owner of that twitter account posted the following, soon after the Guardian article: "Amigos, trollar o Guardian, quem já conseguiu? http://bit.ly/aiVTeW Texto do @Thiago__Caetano no @bobolhando sim." which translates to "Friends, trolling the Guardian, who accomplished that? Text by @Thiago__Caetano at @bobolhando got it." http://twitter.com/#!/ThiagoTG/status/4740146524061696
So it seems that he got to not only troll The Guardian, but Slashdot also.
Cosplayers.net - The Cosplayers Network
Are you really surprised?
The group mentality here is that Religion has done nothing good for the world while causing great ills and that Science does the exact opposite. Both claims are demonstrably false, but it's pointless to try and point out the good that religion has done. The ills of science are a little more accepted, but only slightly so.
Religion have historically constrained the best of human nature while canonizing the worst. They most often trade on authoritarianism, ignorance and conformity. They have long acted as a retardant of human progress, and are collectively the greatest threat to global stability that we see. Science is what drug us out of the muck and mire that religions have tried to bury us in. I'll take an honest search for knowledge over childish dogma every time.
Let me be clear: I take no issue with mocking the cult's wacky beliefs. What I take issue with is the misinformation in the summary that paints a much larger group as being completely irrational and that much of the "conversation" here is general religion-bashing; due in part to the atheist zealots who are even more vigilant of possible soapboxes than their religious counterparts, and due in part to the misleading headline. If you equate the belief in a supreme being with the belief that USB is the devil's connection then you are as much a zealot as those in the cult, and the fact that the reader is led to believe that this measure is backed by all Christians in Brazil shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity.
The core Christian beliefs are no less irrational and wacky than this particular tidbit. It's no more irrational than magic sky fathers, burning bushes, impossible arks, talking snakes, rib created humans, nonexistent floods, healing disease with prayer, imagining that you are immune to snake venom, that fish guts can drive away demons, that there are magical invisible monsters and heroes vying for your soul, that believing the wring things lands you in a pit of fire or even the whole stupid idea that you must achieve forgiveness for nonexistent sins through the mutilation and killing of people and animals. And you think that a silly trident belief is somehow more wacky than this crap?
Feel free to abuse the moderation system and mark this Troll as well so that the Two Minutes Hate may continue uninterrupted.
You think that THIS is hate?! Why don't you go do a google image search on "sectarian violence," if you have the stomach for it. That's hate, and most of it is bred in that fucked up institution we collectively call religion.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Didn't mean it that way, it just seemed like a nice springboard quote to give me a chance to say my fill.
Ah, cool! :)
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
So the only "true" Christians are ones that don't piss you off?
Why not be honest? If they showed up in person, you'd piss yourself and be cowed into silence.
Then once they'd left, you'd log right on to Slashdot to dash off an outraged comment bemoaning how awful religion is from the safety of your anonymous basement, and how tough you'd be if they ever showed their faces around you again.
TL;DR: Shut the fuck up, your bloviating is obnoxious and boring, and none of us believe the tough guy schtick.
Is that what you'd do, you pathetic little troll? If someone were threatening my safety, I guarantee that the contents of the closet not 10 feet behind me would be more than sufficient to discourage them. I am quite willing to defend myself and my family, and to tell stupid people to go fuck themselves.
Speaking of which: go fuck yourself.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Your mistake is that you think atheists declare there is proof there is no god, they never will, in essence agnostics are just 'politically correct' atheists.
I've actually heard self-proclaimed atheists make such a claim. I generally shrug it off and think of it as no different than self-proclaimed Christians saying/doing very anti-Christian things. (That is not to say that one much be perfect to be a Christian, but to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what Christianity is makes the claim a bit disingenuous.)
The last time I heard such a statement was somebody saying, "Science has disproven the existence of God." To which I naturally replied, "Really? What test was performed?" We then got into a short debate on the scientific method. Turns out this particular atheist was just some random blow-hard who wanted his passing whim of an opinion to be heard. I guess religious groups aren't the only ones with zealous outlying cultists who make the rest of them look bad.
There are definitely different "flavors" of atheists out there. There are those who do not believe in God, and there are those who firmly believe in no God. Many of my friends sit comfortably in the former category. Those in the latter category have an admirable amount of faith, even if they deny having it. Much like people who do believe in God (or any god), it's the few who leave us with a sour feeling about the subject whom we remember most, unfortunately.
http://publicvoidlife.blogspot.com
One story can be listened to here--it's a podcast and the story begins around 10:20, but I'll recount it here.
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) was first classified around 1900, but no one knew the cause. People decided that a logical step was to dissect the bodies of SIDS babies and compare them to normal cadavers. What they found was that the thymus gland, part of the immune system, was different. SIDS kids had thymuses which were twice the size of other cadavers, and its proximity to the windpipe led to the reasonable hypothesis that if the kid rolled over wrong, the gland would press on the trachea and suffocate the child while he slept.
The treatment proscribed with this was to shrink the thymus gland using radiation, doses of 200-400 rads. The treatment worked in shrinking the thymus all right, but the then-unknown side effect was to vastly increase the risk of cancer. Estimates put the death toll from this procedure alone at 20,000-30,000 people due to thyroid cancer which developed decades later. And this use of radiation was a very widespread phenomenon not limited to medical science: you could go into a shoe store and have your feet x-rayed, irradiated water was sold, and it was said everywhere that "radioactivity is harmless." So there is one ill: death on a massive scale due to a lack of knowledge of radiation's long-term effects.
But this particular story isn't over and goes even farther back to the 18th Century, a little after the Revolutionary War. The newly-formed medical schools needed bodies to dissect and would pay people to dig 'em up and bring 'em in. This didn't sit well with living relatives and there were riots, so most European countries (where the schools were) passed laws which mandated that anyone who died in a poorhouse would have his body given to the anatomists. The result is that the overwhelming majority (estimated to be 99%) of cadavers used in medical science were those of poor people.
All of which sounded fine until 1936 when Hans Selye showed that being poor causes physical changes in the body. One of the effects of chronic stress found very often in the poor is that the immune system is weakened, and part of that weakening is a shrunken thymus gland. So what was thought to be a normal thymus was not, and tens of thousands of children with perfectly healthy thymuses were irradiated because of reasoning that was completely logical yet mistaken.
I am in no way anti-science, and anyone who claims to be yet lives in any technological society is a fool at best and a hypocrite at worst. But the prevailing attitude is that science can do no harm when in fact it has and does cause harm--and there is no way to prevent that without stagnation. Anyone who refuses to admit as much is a zealot no longer grounded in reality.
An excellent book on the topic is Jacques Barzun's Science: The Glorious Entertainment. It was written in the 1960s but remains quite relevant today, especially in its insights as to how most people act as though science is their religion, with the same amount of zealotry and faith in what the "clergy" tell them.
Your brain is not a computer.
Thanks for illustrating my point.
Your brain is not a computer.
The original post comes from a humor blog and some news outlets, specially abroad, picked up as real.
Scientia est Potentia
> both conclude there is and can never be no credible evidence
That is true that one man's "evidence" is another man's skepticism.
However, that is an incorrect conclusion based on a faulty assumption, even though a quite reasonable conclusion, lack of experience. Here is an analogy:
A blind man says there is no such thing as color. From his perspective (pardon the pun) he is absolutely correct - he has no valid frame of reference to even understand what color is.
Theists, Atheists, and the Agnostic are the blind men all arguing over what constitutes color when they really don't have a clue what the spectrum is.
It's like saying there is no life after death. If you have NEVER been dead, you don't KNOW, so you can NOT assert this claim. Once you have been dead, you will KNOW that Reality is much, much more complicated than the average human could even comprehend.
> how can you provide evidence of something you cannot define in clear non-supernatural terms,
If _you_ are unable to define it, that is _your_ problem. For example, as a baby did you understood Differential Calculus? Why Not?? The same applies to spiritual understanding. The fact that you are unable to understand the answer does not imply there is no answer.
Furthermore, ALL KNOWLEDGE is subjective. The objective relies upon the subjective experience/evidence. How do you KNOW that 2+2 = 4? If you can't do math or even know what numbers are, you DON'T, let alone come up with a proof.
> Your mistake is that you think atheists declare there is proof there is no god
Can you show me where I said that please?
a-{word} = without, or lacking
Theism = has-a belief
Atheism = has-no belief (due to lack of evidence)
Agnostic = has-no knowledge (due to lack of evidence or experience)
Gnostic = has-a knowledge (due to experience and evidence)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theism?&qsrc=
Note: Faith is DIFFERENT than belief. Everyone has faith, in some form or another, even if they are unwilling to admit it.
The problem is the "blind faith" that religion ignorantly tries to use as a crutch for "God".
--
Death is only a change in state.
Thanks for illustrating my point.
Back at ya'.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
How very one-dimensional of you. We already know that you're an internet tough guy. Can I call you Johnny Rambo?
Call me whatever you like if it makes you feel better. Makes no difference to me what a random AC on slashdot thinks of me. I will invite you to continue to fuck yourself.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Unsure if you are christian or not, but your post is full of logical errors akin to what they use to try to convert others, where do I even start.
A blind man says there is no such thing as colour. From his perspective (pardon the pun) he is absolutely correct - he has no valid frame of reference to even understand what color is.
Sure he does, he can devise a device (spectrometers already exist) that measures various wavelengths of light, and get a nice mapping of the wavelength ranges of what people consider 'blue' and 'red' to be.
Sure he would lack the senses to tell how the human eyes/brain perceive these colours. But that itself does not exclude an understand of what 'colour' is.
It's like saying there is no life after death. If you have NEVER been dead, you don't KNOW, so you can NOT assert this claim.
I never made the assertion that there is no god. I simply said there is no evidence nor can there be to assert/deny that there is a god. And without supporting evidence there is no reason to believe there is a god.
If _you_ are unable to define it, that is _your_ problem.
It really isn't, it is the responsibility of the people making the assertion (that god exists) to define what god is so it is a testable hypothesis, they are the one making the assertions.
For example, as a baby did you understood Differential Calculus? Why Not?? The same applies to spiritual understanding. The fact that you are unable to understand the answer does not imply there is no answer.
The problem is christianity etc rely on the supernatural which requires faith, faith ignores the lack of evidence and logic entirely so using anything supernatural in your definitions is folley.
The point of having a clear definition and clear assertions is so they can be tested. If you do not have a clear assertion it cannot be tested, like religious claims of god cannot.
Furthermore, ALL KNOWLEDGE is subjective. The objective relies upon the subjective experience/evidence. How do you KNOW that 2+2 = 4? If you can't do math or even know what numbers are, you DON'T, let alone come up with a proof.
Logic and evidence comes from observing the universe around us, these things are not subjective and can be repeated. If I drop a tennis ball, it will fall to the ground. If someone else drops a tennis ball, it will fall to the ground. From this we conclude when things are dropped from a height they tend to fall.
These things ARE objective and CAN be tested, unlike the vague claims of religion about god.
Your claim that there is no such thing as empirical evidence is rather silly.
Note: Faith is DIFFERENT than belief. Everyone has faith, in some form or another, even if they are unwilling to admit it.
Faith is belief without evidence or logic to back it. No, not everyone has faith, some people do in fact require evidence and logic to support their beliefs, this is not faith.
LOL, judging by the fact that most of my posts are modded up, while none of yours are, I'm not too worried there, cowboy! Nice Rambo reference, though. I'll give you that.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
But the prevailing attitude is that science can do no harm when in fact it has and does cause harm--...
This may be true or not, but your example doesn't really support your assertion.
By your description, the whole thymus error was based on a failure to use proper scientific methods - i.e. not using a randomized sample when assessing thymus size, and not properly investigating the effects of radiation before using it on humans. So all this example illustrates is what happens when you *fail* to 'do the science'.
Really, what tests were performed.
Wow, I think you both missed the point here. The very fact that no tests can be performed ipso facto demonstrates the inability for God to exist. Even theists realize this, and posit that an atheist must prove a negative. i.e. "prove that God does NOT exist." An invisible, infinite being with no tangible physical attributes cannot exist. Period. By the way, I'd love to introduce you to this Teapot in space I discovered!
Hmm, I wondered which bastards vandalised my Maserati. I thought it must have been the local chavs, but it seems it was Evangelical Christians all along.
People told me that vanity plate wasn't a good idea.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I disagree. Science is a process, and one thing that is certain is that you can never be certain that you have all the facts. It's now taken for granted that excess stress warps your body, but until that was discovered there was no reason to believe that a sample containing all body types of men, women, and children was not randomized. And with radiation, there was no precedent for a substance that caused harm not days or weeks but years or decades later. The concept of such extremely delayed harm just hadn't been thought of.
You can't dismiss the erroneous stuff as "not science" simply because it turned out to be wrong. It's not as if the people doing it were stupid or lazy; it's just that nobody perceived the hidden flaws in the hypothesis (radiation is harmless) or methodology (poorhouse cadavers are a random sample). It is all a process of unwitting experimentation that has real consequences.
You can't view science the process as some thing that is separate from the people who practice it. It does not magically "progress" on its own and its conclusions are not foregone (or ever final, really). It relies entirely on smart and insightful people to stare at problems, new or old, and ask new questions. They are bound to find things that others missed and consequently falsify accepted truths, and they are bound to miss things themselves. The process results in increased knowledge about the universe we live in, but it contains its fair share of missteps along the way. To claim that it is "not science" if there are unknowns in play which later become rectified is to essentially invalidate the process, reserving "science" to mean "a final body of knowledge that we know for sure is true," a goal that is far, far off if not unattainable.
Your brain is not a computer.
Was this just a hoax? I feel like it was done as a joke....
I think you are wrong. I believe there is no god. But that is merely on the basis of lack of evidence for a god's existence, and I concede that I could be wrong. I also believe that even if a god did exist, it still would be unlikely to resemble the Judeo-Christian god. This makes me an atheist.
I could be convinced in the existence of a god if there was evidence.
"Believing in Jesus" and "proselytizing" are big aspects. Especially the "Believing in Jesus" part. A group that says "Jesus is Satan's brother" and a group that says "Jesus is God" and a gourp that says "Jesus wasn't God" ... those are all very different, and yet you could all say they "believe in Jesus."
Here's an example of a definition of a evangelical Christian. From wikipedia, of all places. In the summary above the wikipedia article.
Evangelicalism is a Protestant Christian theological stream which began in Great Britain in the 1730s.[1] Its key commitments are:
The need for personal conversion (or being "born again")
Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
A high regard for biblical authority, especially biblical inerrancy
An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the death and resurrection of Jesus.[2]
And one may argue, "but the usage has changed since then!" Perhaps so. So has the word "scientist." And "doctor."
Here I was hoping to see some kind of acknowledgement by the USB steering committee that the form factor is broken and a resolution to fix it in future revisions.
Of course I mean this:
If you're going to design a connector that has to all intents and purposes 180 degree rotational symmetry externally, then for Bilbo's sake give it 180 degree rotational symmetry internally too!
Or, more simply:
Since the connector looks like a rectangle from the outside, make it so you can plug it in right-way-up or upside-down and still work. Or key the actual shape of the connector so it's not ambiguous.
For an example of the former take the Mac Book power connectors. Since the pins are arranged palendromically you can plug it in, pull it out, flip it, plug it in again and it still works. An extreme example is round power connectors as found in most PC laptops. These can be rotated at any angle.
An example of the latter - Firewire or IEC connectors, that have clear right and wrong orientations.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
> Unsure if you are Christian or not,
Why would I waste my time with Spiritual Kindergarten??
>> Here is an analogy
> he can devise a device (spectrometers already exist)
What part of the word 'a-n-a-l-o-g-y' do you not understand??
> Sure he would lack the senses to tell how the human eyes/brain perceive these colors.
And this is _precisely_ what theists and atheists are -- ignorant of experience -- they lack the senses to perceive non-physical reality. Without senses, they lack experience. Without experience, they lack knowledge.
> I simply said there is no evidence nor can there be to assert/deny that there is a god. And without supporting evidence there is no reason to believe there is a god.
If _you_ haven't found the evidence then "Maybe you aren't looking hard enough!"
The mystical experience provides plenty of evidence. If you haven't had these experiences, then you are the "proverbial" blind man, which is the original point.
A very wise man (Buddha) once stated this wisdom:
"What could you know about God? What do you know about yourself? Do you know anything about yourself? No? So how could you know anything about God? Leave God aside, for the time being, and find out who you are."
You don't know what you are looking for because you don't understand who you are really are, your Higher Self, let alone "God." Or in other words: "Know Thyself" is the _ultimate_ form of knowing God.
How do I know these mystical experiences are real? Because of deep meditation for the past 6 years.
Even a brain researcher is starting to understand:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
> it is the responsibility of the people making the assertion (that god exists) to define what god is so it is a testable hypothesis
LOL. The existence of God is NOT some theorem to be proved. (For one thing She would get a real kick out some human using their limited human intelligence and perspective trying to solve an unsolvable problem -- "prove that something 'outside' yourself exists!) Existence claims can never be proven _only_ experienced. You can't prove that I "exist" because I could be a figment of your imagination. There is no "proof" -- only knowing. I will address in further down.
As much as I hate the New Age definition of god being "All-That-Is", it is the most concise and accurate definition there is. Every religion has some cockamania "definition" of "God" that isn't even close to being accurate.
> The problem is Christianity etc rely on the supernatural which requires faith,
The three Western religions, Judaism, Christian, and Islam have _many_ problems. Requiring faith is NOT one of them. I highly recommend you try reading Gurdjieff 'The Fourth Way' to understand the strengths and weaknesses of the various approaches since you don't know what you are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Way
To present another _analogy_:
- Some people learn best by reading.
- Some people learn best by watching.
- Some people learn best by doing.
If you have ever studied Dancing or Martial Arts you would know that a multi-pronged solution caters to and maximizes the widest learning types, but there is nothing wrong with "specializing" in one type. Religions follow this same pattern of specialization.
Faith-based religion work extremely well for some people -- heart-centered. For others it does _absolutely_ nothing -- mind-centered. True Atheists, thank god (pardon the pun), are logic driven. They tend to do well with Buddhism -- since it ignores the whole concept of "What is God" from the get go, and instead focuses on (IMHO the more important) question "Who/What am I?"
> Logic and evidence comes from observing the universe around us, these things are not subjective an
Yeshua bar Yakov was born of human parents, so your statement isn't accurate, but I like your thought process!
I have a joke that you may appreciate:
Teacher: "Question everything! Question Authority!"
Student: "Says who!?"
(Teacher smiles at the student who "gets it.")
Please keep questioning everything ...
Cheers
For one thing She would get a real kick out some human using their limited human intelligence and perspective trying to solve an unsolvable problem -- "prove that something 'outside' yourself exists!
Fan of solopsism (or a derivative) hey? I'll pay that, good luck making any kind of productive thought with that. I mean hey if everything is merely inside yourself are you really that egotistical to create illusions of other minds simply to satiate your own ego?
Hell go and cause armageddon by killing yourself, if you're right and we're all just a part of you we'll all cease to exist with you right?
You are confusing BLIND faith with FAITH.
Faith is _action_ _because_ of beliefs. If you do nothing with your beliefs, it is just that, beliefs.
Look up the definition of faith. I dare you... actually hell I'll post it
"A belief not resting on logical proof or material evidence."
As a Gnostic & mystic
Ah so we have one of those 'I have experienced the wonder of the goddess' types. Very well
As for the rest of your post, I leave you to your delusions, you are entitled to them, the further on peoples errors are in a chain of logic the longer it takes to explain the sources of error and to be frank I cannot be bothered to explain the concepts you are using with incorrect definitions.
Good day sir