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Minecraft Reaches Beta Status, Price Goes Up

Eric writes "After over a year of development, Minecraft has hit Beta status today. Minecraft was developed for about a week before its public release on May 17, 2009. With the new milestone, the price of the game has increased to €14.95; when Minecraft moves beyond beta status, it will sell for €20.00. The beta is more focused on polish and content. The aim is to add proper modding support via a stable API, some kind of non-intrusive narrative to help drive the game experience early on, and a late-game goal. Updates will be less frequent, so as to make sure stability is maintained thanks to more extended testing. Despite this, there have already been two beta releases: client and server Beta 1.0 followed quickly by client 1.0_01."

279 comments

  1. The real question going through my mind is.. by Ventriloquate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    did they get their money back from PayPal?

    1. Re:The real question going through my mind is.. by Ailure · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, Notch got his money. :)

    2. Re:The real question going through my mind is.. by Shikaku · · Score: 2

      Yes and no. I heard that they allow limited releases of cash back when this was a huge issue. Now I'm not so sure about it, but they also have along with Paypal a credit card processor for payment.

  2. Releases. by srothroc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The summary fails to mention the spectacular fail.

    The release that was supposed to inaugurate the beta also created a bunch of bugs for both single- and multi-player modes, including dupe bugs, which he was trying to fix.

    The patch that followed the beta release was supposed to fix those bugs, and didn't. Minecraft remains almost unplayable for me in single- or multi-player mode; my friends can't even connect to the server anymore.

    I understand that "beta" is just a milestone, but this is really inauspicious.

    1. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you read through the jar's you could probable fix half of the problems in about a week.

    2. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's just one man. Look through the patch notes of TF2, from a HUGE developer, and you see exactly the same thing. Valve patched an airblast exploit that was well known for more than a year only just this week.

    3. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that he is a poor programmer seems to escape most people, despite the evidence (let's ignore the rabid notch-can-do-no-evil userbase)

      What he does seem to have a good grasp of is the game design which is arguably more important.

      He does really need to hire a project manager, though.

    4. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who hasn't played this game yet, let me ask: who the fuck cares about his programming skills? Do you realize that you're discussing a computer game? You couldn't possibly find a topic more shallow.

      If the quality of the game matters so much to you, then stop fucking playing it and leave us alone with your nerd-bitching equivalent of Miley Cyrus hate regarding personal tampon choice and hygiene.

    5. Re:Releases. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      who the fuck cares about his programming skills?

      People who play the game, perhaps? If his code is of poor quality, is bug ridden, and is terribly inefficient, then I would say that it is important. Not only that, but it might also make it harder for him and anyone else to maintain it.

      If the quality of the game matters so much to you, then stop fucking playing it and leave us alone with your nerd-bitching equivalent of Miley Cyrus hate regarding personal tampon choice and hygiene.

      Negative criticism is just as valid as positive criticism. Perhaps even more so. It helps people grow (if they agree with it, that is). Telling people who weren't completely satisfied to get out isn't really a valid argument.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    6. Re:Releases. by JonStewartMill · · Score: 1

      The beta won't even launch for me. I get this:

      Minecraft: Minecraft Beta 1.0_01
      OS: Linux (i386) version 2.6.34.7-0.5-default
      Java: 1.6.0_20, Sun Microsystems Inc.
      VM: OpenJDK Server VM (mixed mode), Sun Microsystems Inc.
      LWJGL: 2.4.2
      [failed to get system properties (java.lang.NullPointerException)]

      org.lwjgl.LWJGLException: Could not init GLX
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.initDefaultPeerInfo(Native Method)
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.(LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.java:52)
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplay.createPeerInfo(LinuxDisplay.java:684)
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(Display.java:854)
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(Display.java:784)
      at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(Display.java:765)
      at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.a(SourceFile:279)
      at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.run(SourceFile:641)
      at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:636)
      --- END ERROR REPORT 2aa07b3a ----------

    7. Re:Releases. by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      VM: OpenJDK Server VM

      http://www.minecraft.net/download.jsp -->

      Also, please make sure you're running the Sun JVM...

      I know it's not clearly explained but the Sun version is required.

    8. Re:Releases. by JonStewartMill · · Score: 1

      Pardon my ignorance, but I assumed that that's what "Sun Microsystems Inc." indicates. At any rate, it worked perfectly for the past six weeks with Minecraft Alpha.

    9. Re:Releases. by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      $ java -version
      java version "1.6.0_23"
      Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05)
      Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode)

      I'm assuming he only tests the java.com version, and not OpenJDK. When I tried with OpenJDK a long time ago it did not work, so it would be a crapshoot.

    10. Re:Releases. by JonStewartMill · · Score: 1

      After some searching, I found out how to switch my system from OpenJDK to Sun's JRE. java -version now shows "Java SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_22-b04)." Alas, I still get "Could not init GLX."

    11. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a difference between negative criticism and pointlessly raging about anything possible because it's trendy to hate everything.

    12. Re:Releases. by Duradin · · Score: 2

      If there's a game I wish I could unbuy Minecraft would be it.

      Too dark to see anything isn't cool and I don't want to either crank my system gamma to extreme levels (and make everything else look like crap) nor do I want to remodel a room just to make it dark enough for one game.

      And then the "tedium is skill" angle is the kicker.

      I should have followed my corollary to the /. rule (the more /. hates something the better it is), the more /. likes something the worse it is. Given all the hype it got here I should have known it'd have issues.

    13. Re:Releases. by daid303 · · Score: 1

      I've read quite a few of the problems and fixes. And looks like he is quite a decent programmer, with NO multiplayer programming experience. The alpha is pretty solid from a single player perspective, but the multiplayer is just an ugly hack on top of that. It's just a surprise that it works at all.

    14. Re:Releases. by f5hacka · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you played a perfect game, let alone a perfect game BEFORE it went into beta?

      --
      Hi
    15. Re:Releases. by Winckle · · Score: 2

      Surely the darkness is intentional? Make torches to light up dark areas.

    16. Re:Releases. by Thiez · · Score: 1

      It doesn't help that the class files have been obscured.

    17. Re:Releases. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      It's not pointless, and I've already explained why. That said, positive criticism is almost entirely useless. It's just praise that ultimately accomplishes nothing.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    18. Re:Releases. by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I haven't really tried the multiplayer, but the single player experience has been solid enough for selling in a shop for a while now. To me it's also the more important part of the game, the core idea, if you will.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    19. Re:Releases. by fbjon · · Score: 1

      You can make torches (with coal or redstone), you can make fires, you can get some glowing stone and place it around, you can cut a hole to the surface bringing daylight in...

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    20. Re:Releases. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      People who play the game, perhaps? If his code is of poor quality, is bug ridden, and is terribly inefficient, then I would say that it is important. Not only that, but it might also make it harder for him and anyone else to maintain it.

      That'd be me, and while he's no John Carmack or Michael Abrash, he's a solid enough programmer that I'm going to call it a "don't care". Compared to any closed Betas I've participated in, and certainly strictly in-house code bases, it's not bad at all.

      Granted I'm solely talking about the single player experience. I don't play multiplayer, as two of the things I'm most interested in (minecarts and logic circuits to control them) haven't been implemented properly in MP yet.

      Negative criticism is just as valid as positive criticism. Perhaps even more so. It helps people grow (if they agree with it, that is).

      The terms you're looking for are constructive and unconstructive criticism. Constructive criticism helps people grow, and one of the most important aspects is that it is termed in a way that even if they don't agree, they may at least consider it. Unconstructive criticism is just pointless bitching and won't help anyone because nobody is going to listen to someone shrieking about how you're the worst programmer ever.

      Telling people who weren't completely satisfied to get out isn't really a valid argument.

      Telling people who can't engage in constructive criticism to shut up until they can is a valid argument.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    21. Re:Releases. by Duradin · · Score: 0

      And this is why the MC Community sucks as well.

      Yes, I know about torches. Yes, I have made torches. No, torches aren't the solution to being unable to do anything at night (unless you wanted a torch every 5 squares on whatever you were doing). Look at screenshots with a monitor that doesn't have the gamma cranked and all you see is black. Expiring torches leaves even less enthusiasm to work at MC.

    22. Re:Releases. by Yer+Mom · · Score: 2

      But... but... I thought Java was "write once, run anywhere!"

      --
      Never mind Spamassassin. When's Spammerassassin coming out?
    23. Re:Releases. by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      I can't help you anymore than =( sorry.

    24. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Negative critisims and positive critisism are both equally worthless and just a means for whiny people to pretend they aren't just being tools.

      Pointing out a bug is helpful, whining isn't. grow up

    25. Re:Releases. by Albatrosses · · Score: 2

      Close. It's "write once, debug everywhere".

    26. Re:Releases. by Albatrosses · · Score: 1

      If there's something I wish I could undo Real Life would be it.

      Too dark to see anything isn't cool and I don't want to either open my eyes to extreme levels (and have to get out of my basement) nor do I want to remodel a room just to include lights so I can see.

      And then the "tedium is skill" angle is the kicker.

      I should have followed my corollary to the /. rule (the more /. hates something the better it is), the more /. likes something the worse it is. Given all the hype it got here I should have known it'd have issues.

    27. Re:Releases. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 0

      That'd be me, and while he's no John Carmack or Michael Abrash, he's a solid enough programmer that I'm going to call it a "don't care".

      Is he, now? I'm not sure of his coding ability. I only made that as a general statement. I have heard that his code is a mess and that it's inefficient in many aspects, however. Not sure how true that is.

      The terms you're looking for are constructive and unconstructive criticism.

      Yes. Pointless praising and insults can be considered unconstructive. While 'bitching' may not help, someone is fully in their right to do so. I look down on them no more than I do someone who is just sucking up to the person.

      Telling people who can't engage in constructive criticism to shut up until they can is a valid argument.

      It really isn't. They have their own opinion, and their insults are just as valid as anyone's pointless praising. Neither really contribute anything.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    28. Re:Releases. by Chyeld · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except that's exactly how it's suppose to be.

      Full daylight provides the maximum brightness of 15. Each value below this is 80% as bright as the one above it. For example, 14 is 80% as bright as sunlight, and 13 is 64% bright.

      Torches emit light level 14 and monsters spawn at light level 7 or below. Light levels drop by one for every block away from the source. So if you aren't placing light sources about every 5 or so blocks, you will be working in the dark when the sun goes down/you go underground and you'll be always doing the Crazy Ivan to check for Creepers sneaking up on you.

      Coal and wood aren't exactly rare, I've gone on simple 'camping' trips above ground and come back with two or more stacks of coal by the end of the day, and wood is even easier to collect. Your problem is you want your world to match your aesthetics rather than how the game was setup.

    29. Re:Releases. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      whiny people to pretend they aren't just being tools.

      Someone isn't a tool for doing either.

      Pointing out a bug is helpful, whining isn't. grow up

      Growing up has nothing to do with anything. Furthermore, why would I do that when that's what I was stating in the first place?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    30. Re:Releases. by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Wanted, not want. The tense is important.

    31. Re:Releases. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      While 'bitching' may not help, someone is fully in their right to do so.

      And everyone else is fully in their right to tell them to post something constructive or be quiet, and are right-as-in-correct to do so.

      It really isn't. They have their own opinion, and their insults are just as valid as anyone's pointless praising.

      When did "pointless praising" enter the picture other than when you dragged it in by talking about "positive criticism" which apparently means "praise" even though praise is not criticism?

      The discussion was about "people who aren't completely satisfied", and the different ways to express that lack of satisfaction: Pointless bitching, vs constructive criticism. Unconstructive criticism is bad, constructive criticism is good.

      It really isn't. They have their own opinion, and their insults are just as valid as anyone's pointless praising.

      Yes, it really is. Unconstructive criticism is unconstructive and useless and it's perfectly valid to say so. Comparing it to something else that is useless doesn't change anything.

      But as long as we must talk about pointless praise, I'd say that simply by virtue of raising up instead of tearing down, praise is better even if still not productive. If you still want to tell someone engaging in such that they should refrain, and instead post something that actually contributes, be my guest. That's a reasonable stance to take. Pointless praise is pointless, ergo pointless bitching should be tolerated is not a reasonable stance, it's wrong.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    32. Re:Releases. by matrim99 · · Score: 1

      But... but... I thought Java was "write once, run anywhere!"

      That's the short version. I've found that sometimes the more verbose version is applicable:

      1) Write Once
      2) ??
      3) ??
      4) Run Anywhere!

      --
      Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
    33. Re:Releases. by gangien · · Score: 1

      1. it still needs all the libraries(whether jar or so/dll/whatever) in the right spots
      2. lwjgl is native code, thus, it kind of loses a lot of that steam.

    34. Re:Releases. by dadioflex · · Score: 1

      It's a Beta.

      Odd, but this is the first time I feel like I got my money's worth from the Alpha. I still play but they more he adds, the more he takes away.

      Worth fifty bucks of anyone's money... but hey, LOOK they've got it on sale for next to nothing. Grab it while you can! You will exhaust it eventually, but you'll tire yourself out in the process.

    35. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Negative criticism is just as valid as positive criticism. Perhaps even more so. It helps people grow (if they agree with it, that is). Telling people who weren't completely satisfied to get out isn't really a valid argument.

      This is so true but very offtopic.
      MostAwesomeDude didn't provide negative criticism, he just bitched. If you want to provide negative criticism you should always give suggestions on how to improve matters, otherwise it will be impossible to see if you actually have something that is worth to say or if you just are one of the other 10000 assholes on internet.

    36. Re:Releases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't play multiplayer, as two of the things I'm most interested in (minecarts and logic circuits to control them) haven't been implemented properly in MP yet.

      Um, what? An hour or two ago, I was just playing SMP, riding in carts from base (main house) to base (Ice Station Zebra) to base (Sky Station 101) to base (Jacks house). I have two cart dispensers outside my main house (one in each direction- I'm working on making a bi-directional one). I have a 100-meter long bridge with flashing warning lights (redstone connected to a pulser).

      Carts and redstone work fine in SMP.

    37. Re:Releases. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I meant hadn't been implemented properly yet. They only started working very recently, and I haven't played much recently (and when I have it's been on my SP world).

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    38. Re:Releases. by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      And everyone else is fully in their right to tell them to post something constructive or be quiet, and are right-as-in-correct to do so.

      That's true.

      When did "pointless praising" enter the picture other than when you dragged it in by talking about "positive criticism" which apparently means "praise" even though praise is not criticism?

      It didn't. I was just saying that all of the people who constantly dish out constant praise are idiots. Too many people think that this is okay while unconstructive criticism isn't.

      Unconstructive criticism is bad

      To you, maybe. Everyone has their own opinion.

      Comparing it to something else that is useless doesn't change anything.

      No, and it wasn't meant to.

      I'd say that simply by virtue of raising up instead of tearing down, praise is better even if still not productive.

      Neither accomplish anything. The author is free to do as they will.

      ergo pointless bitching should be tolerated is not a reasonable stance, it's wrong.

      'Wrong'? How very subjective.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    39. Re:Releases. by JonStewartMill · · Score: 1

      No worries; I wasn't really looking for help. As luck would have it, when I switched video drivers from [some nVidia driver] to [some other nVidia driver] the problem was solved.

  3. Preorder now! by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Minecraft Reaches Beta Status, Price Goes Up

    If there's one thing I don't do, it's buy software that isn't written yet. Maybe under some limited conditions in custom software both otherwise, let me know when you're done and what you're charging for it and I'll consider it.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Preorder now! by srothroc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was written; you were paying for a product that existed at the time, with the bonus being unlimited future updates. Beta purchasers are not eligible for the unlimited future updates, unfortunately. A lot of people, me included, obviously thought that the game as it was in its nascent alpha stage was worth the 10-15 USD (depending on the exchange rate) being charged for it.

    2. Re:Preorder now! by Khyber · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No shit.

      This man made BANK on a fucking ALPHA.

      What the fuck? I can understand needing development capital, but still, charging for an Alpha?

      Insanity. He just showed up Microsoft, Apple, Google, EVERYBODY, at their own goddamned game.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Preorder now! by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Beta purchasers are not eligible for the unlimited future updates, unfortunately.

      They are eligible for all updates up until the final release, and all bugfixes, though.

    4. Re:Preorder now! by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not like Notch twisted anybody's arm. Several hundred thousand people, myself included, enjoy the game enough in its current form to be willing to pay for it. And if that means it's cheaper and we get all the add-ons for free, all the better.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    5. Re:Preorder now! by AC-x · · Score: 1

      What the fuck? I can understand needing development capital, but still, charging for an Alpha?

      It was still completely playable in single and multi player, until a few duff releases broke various aspects of multiplayer. It's probably because everything mostly worked that people forgot it was an alpha version and liable to break all the time.

    6. Re:Preorder now! by tagno25 · · Score: 1

      If you paid for Alpha you get ALL future updates and expansions. Beta gets all updates until release and bug fixes.

    7. Re:Preorder now! by xtracto · · Score: 2

      Can you describe what is the game about?? I have seen some videos (a house burning or something) with 3D graphics that are equivalent to NES Super Mario Bros era.

      I am really curious to know (in a nutshell) what is the gameplay about?

      Is it an FPS? is it a Sim? is it something different?

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    8. Re:Preorder now! by Elegor · · Score: 2

      I bought in to the alpha version and haven't regretted a single penny of it. I've played and enjoyed Minecraft more over the past three months than any other game I've bought in the last decade. It hits the same sweet-spot of freedom, struggle and reward that Elite managed to nail in the '80s. And, coincidentally, Minecraft Alpha cost about the same as Elite did on the Spectrum all those years ago!

      I really don't mind paying for alpha software that is this much fun, and 850k other people seem to feel the same

    9. Re:Preorder now! by gilleain · · Score: 1

      >

      Is it an FPS? is it a Sim? is it something different?

      tl;dr : Make castles and dig for gold while fighting off zombies and skeletons at night.

      The weird thing is that in its alpha form (which I also bought, and have enjoyed) it has no point. I guess that would make it like a sim. There are various suggestions on the Get Satisfaction site about making it into some kind of dungeon crawl, or castle defense.

      Technically, I suppose it is a 'sandbox' game, as it is like playing in a giant sandbox (Br Eng: Sandpit).

    10. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an FPS, but... It's an indepth multiplayer/singleplayer survival sandbox base-building farm-growing mining game, without being an RPG. And I barely scratched the surface of the game with that.

    11. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a few elements for each of the styles you mention.
      There is some FPS, there are bad guys you can fight and kill with bow and arrow or sword.
      You mine blocks of various materials and can use the blocks you mine to build stuff. E.G. Houses, forts, gardens, tools, etc... I bought it, but have only played the single player version, which is entertaining, but gets old since there's only the monsters that come out at night and the pigs, cows, and sheep to interact with.
      My biggest issue is that I had to spend literally hours even days mining for materials like Iron to build things like train tracks for my mine carts. I ended up getting board and haven't gone back to it in a while. I've thought about trying out the multiplayer version to see if it can hold my interest, but I've been playing the Xenosaga series lately.

    12. Re:Preorder now! by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Completely destructible 32-voxel world, bad things spawn in the dark. The object is to survive through mining, crafting, and building.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    13. Re:Preorder now! by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From a first-person perspective you place and remove blocks, which have various properties, to build things. Some of those blocks can be combined and refined to make:

      * New kinds of blocks, like glass or stairs
      * Tools, like pickaxes and torches
      * Interactable objects like doors, vehicles and refining furnaces
      * Sensors, switches, buttons and NOR gates, with which one can build everything from an automatic door to a turing-complete computer

      The world you play in is procedurally generated from a seed and, depending on technical limitations, is several times the size of the surface of the earth, albeit only 128 metres deep. There is a day-night cycle, monsters can spawn wherever it is sufficiently dark (i.e. at night or in unlit caverns) and farm animals can spawn wherever it is sufficiently bright.

      For example, I have built a monster-resistant house with a moat, and a system of water channels that funnels the creatures from the moat down to a contraption that kills them, at which point their loot is funnelled to a sensor that lights up a lamp upstairs to tell me to go fetch the goodies. I'm currently finishing off that system before I venture into a newly-discovered cave system to get some more iron ore with which to build some tracks for a railway system. On another part of the map, I am hollowing out a mountain to build a secure location in which to construct a portal to a parallel dimension of pure suffering.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    14. Re:Preorder now! by Aladrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I bought it thinking I would probably get my money's worth eventually. Instead, what I found was that I had 10 euros of fun in the first day, and the rest of the next couple weeks was pure bonus. I don't play it now, but I intend to play it again once there are actual goals... And I'll continue to reap value from that purchase.

      I was a little sad to see that future purchases won't have the major updates included, but I did already tell all my friends about it, so it's their fault for missing it.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    15. Re:Preorder now! by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      There's an obvious joke about Microsoft/Apple charging for the alpha version of an OS/gizmo here, and I'd just like to say that anyone who makes it should be ashamed of themselves.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    16. Re:Preorder now! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Yours is actually a pretty good argument for this sort of 'price-increases-as-development-progresses' model, which I've seen with a few other indy game titles as well.

      At some point in development, the product is polished enough to be worth playing around with, to some people, and isn't totally, egregiously crashy. Release at a low price, with those caveats noted. Those who wish can pay less, track progress from this point forward; but know that they are putting up with bugs and the risk that development will stall.

      As development progresses, the price gradually goes up; because the product is better and the risk that the product will never reach 1.0 has declined. At 1.0(obviously, numbering conventions vary, some products aren't "1.0" until about "3.5 SP4"; but "1.0" as in "finished") charge full price.

      Especially in recreational markets there is nothing wrong with selling inferior or unfinished goods; provided that you are honest about what you are selling...

    17. Re:Preorder now! by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      The way he termed it was that it was a €20 game, but you got 50% off in Alpha and 25% off in Beta. So he's been upfront about the pricing from the outset. It's like a discounted pre-order that happens to come with work-in-progress versions of the game.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    18. Re:Preorder now! by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in other words... If you like the grinding in other games, you'll love minecraft as it is never ending grinding.

      never ending....

      I want the last 210 hours back..... Wait, I have to build more walls.... brb...

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:Preorder now! by Kamokazi · · Score: 2

      You stick to your principles, I'll stick with enjoying a great game. A year before you do. At half the price.

      Principles are all well and good, but blindly following them without considering things on a situational basis is just stubborn and silly.

      --
      As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
    20. Re:Preorder now! by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      That game is pretty awesome.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    21. Re:Preorder now! by Orne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This was my gripe too, that minerals are so hard to find. But then I created a new world recently... it looks like the iron probability was increased a lot, but only shows up in new worlds, or when new map chunks are generated in old worlds.

    22. Re:Preorder now! by AltairDusk · · Score: 1

      There's an obvious joke about Microsoft/Apple charging for the alpha version of an OS/gizmo here, and I'd just like to say that anyone who makes it should be ashamed of themselves.

      It actually hadn't come to mind before this reminded me but now that I'm thinking about it someone should really mention Windows ME.

    23. Re:Preorder now! by Stele · · Score: 1

      Here is a trailer someone made that pretty much sums it up.

    24. Re:Preorder now! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, he essentially sold the full version of the game plus any upgrades he will ever release. You just happen to get access to all pre-release versions, as well. Essentially it's a discounted preorder that automatically enrolls you into the alpha/beta test. (Yes, he did actualy sell the alpha but you still got access to any subsequent release.)

      Plus, this kind of model seems to be getting more common these days: You first have people preorder and then use their preorder money to actually develop the product. OpenPandora Ltd. is using the same approach to develop a handheld console - and they can't even deliver prerelease versions. Yet it works.

      It's pretty interesting. Essentially you crowdsource for development capital; this allows startups and independent developers to take a shot at developing and releasing a product without having the required funds up front. Of course it puts the risk on the customer but it's interesting nonetheless.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    25. Re:Preorder now! by Rysc · · Score: 1

      Grinding? More like freeform simulation. It draws people from the puzzle/sims crowd, too.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    26. Re:Preorder now! by poena.dare · · Score: 1

      After my GF played Minecraft for 40+ hours I bought the alpha for her. So I can't even calculate the non-risk involved here!

      I'm surprised EA hasn't bought Minecraft. This is exactly the kind of good game they like to screw up.

    27. Re:Preorder now! by BassMan449 · · Score: 1

      To be fair I don't think Notch has the intention of charging for updates in the foreseeable future, but he removed the language about unlimited updates because permanent language like that scared his lawyers.

    28. Re:Preorder now! by Pteraspidomorphi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, in other words, Notch just wants to be able to have, in the future, a "Minecraft 2"-type expansion package and charge for it...

    29. Re:Preorder now! by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      It's a first-person sandbox game. There is no goal at this point, no win or lose conditions (unless "dying" counts as losing but you can respawn an infinite number of times), and there is no action that NEEDS to be taken.

      You dig/mine blocks, which you can then place back anywhere you want. Some blocks can be converted into materials to make other block types, tools, weapons, decorations and other stuff.

      Kinda like LEGO but you have to find and dig out (sometimes manufacture) the blocks you want.
      =Smidge=

    30. Re:Preorder now! by cowscows · · Score: 1

      While it sometimes can definitely become a grind, I think one of the big differences is that your resource gathering does have a lasting effect on the world. If you spend three hours digging up stone, you're going to leave a big hole in the ground, or a network of tunnels, or a cave, or whatever.

      In more abstract terms, there's two basic ways to create in minecraft. There's additive, where you're stacking blocks to build something. And there's subtractive, where you're carving away at the existing landscape to create spaces or shapes. The subtractive method can leave you with lots of material for additive building.

      That said, I find that your tools tend to wear out way too fast unless they're diamond, and diamond is rare enough that searching for it often feels like a chore.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    31. Re:Preorder now! by FauxPasIII · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing I don't do, it's buy software that isn't written yet. Maybe under some limited conditions in custom software both otherwise, let me know when you're done and what you're charging for it and I'll consider it.

      Then you've missed out on round about a year of the most fun gaming I can remember since I was playing Yar's Revenge on the Atari 2600 with my parents.

      Your call bro.

      --
      25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
    32. Re:Preorder now! by fprintf · · Score: 1

      I search for 45 minutes for diamond to make picks and shovels so I can search for another 45 more minutes for diamonds.

      At least I used to. Now I just fire up Cartographer and use stone picks to get to the good stuff. It feels like cheating but it does help get rid of the "grind" feel a little bit.

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    33. Re:Preorder now! by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      I got (or was forced to take, that addiction is serious) hours upon hours of pure gaming goodness from my investment of 10 euros. The software was written, I bought the alpha game and it had everything I wanted. The game was complete. Now each major revision is like I'm getting bonus content.

    34. Re:Preorder now! by Christianfreak · · Score: 2

      I don't get why everyone is clamoring for "actual goals". I fear any "goal" is what's going to end up ruining it. Make your own goal. I run a server with a few people and our goal is building every awesome monument we can think of. That and redstone computers to control automated minecrart tracks.

    35. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I beg to differ, Microsoft has been doing this for decades, I think they are in Theta release or so right now but I don't think anyone can argue that Windows is out of development or has reached "production" quality status yet. Who knows, with several freight cars more money they may be able to pull it off. ;-)

    36. Re:Preorder now! by Spykk · · Score: 2

      Grinding is the term used to describe a repetitive, boring task that you do to get some reward. Minecraft is anything but grinding as there are no rewards to work towards. If you feel building creative structures out of cubes is grinding then Minecraft might not be for you.

    37. Re:Preorder now! by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Lately I've been primarily playing on multiplayer servers, which up until yesterday had a bug where if you dropped your tools it would reset their damage to zero. I imagine that a mod that makes tools last forever will become available pretty soon and become rather popular.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    38. Re:Preorder now! by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Actually the wonderful thing about Minecraft is that I was able to do all that with a pretty low time investment, maybe an average of 2-3 hours a week over the past few months, which leaves plenty of time for a normal human existence.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    39. Re:Preorder now! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      I'd say that the actually mining portion of Minecraft counts as grinding. I've made giant branch mines where I dig in a pattern to uncover as many blocks as possible and find valuable minerals. It's a mostly repetitive and boring business, though occasionally stumbling on a diamond vein hits the same "pull the lever a random number of times, get a peanut" reinforcement that slot machines and MMOs use. Also occasionally stumbling across a cave network gives the chance to give up the grind and go exploring (also with the potential for finding valuable minerals, or a nasty death) which breaks things up.

      Outside of mining, I'd definitely agree that building (including excavating) isn't a grind, it's what the game's about -- creativity.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    40. Re:Preorder now! by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Like I said, I got my money's worth and quite a lot more. But just like life, if you don't have goals, what are you working for?

      I hit all my personal goals for the game. If I had some external goals, I would play again. Something the game recognizes, not something just made up on the spot.

      But, I'll also say, if there were more interaction, I'd also play again. NPCs, a living pre-existing town... Even a town that you had to create, but people would move into.

      These aren't complaints, just statements. I'm looking forward to watching it evolve into an even better game.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    41. Re:Preorder now! by internerdj · · Score: 1

      You aren't supposed to pay for an Alpha? That would have saved me some dollars and a couple of weeks when I plopped them down for Alpha Protocol. Actually that makes sense, when can I pick up Beta Protocol or Protocol?

    42. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ditto

    43. Re:Preorder now! by shish · · Score: 1

      Multiplayer lego, with zombies

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
    44. Re:Preorder now! by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 1

      On another part of the map, I am hollowing out a mountain to build a secure location in which to construct a portal to a parallel dimension of pure suffering.

      Harvest?

    45. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Put a FPS and Lego-building in a blender, add a dash of NES graphics, garnish with your own imagination to taste.

    46. Re:Preorder now! by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

      Funny enough, Alpha single player is worth the €10, it's a hell of fun and the game runs smooth with few crashes.

      Alpha/Beta multiplayer is buggy has hell, lags has hell and crashes like hell so after paying for the game and trying to play online I've been suffering a lot of troubles. Better stick to single player. Multiplayer is awfully incomplete.

      On the bright side it's got one of the smoothest gameplays on an online game I've seen, but I play on Linux, I'm comparing it to the likes of Nexuiz.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    47. Re:Preorder now! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      except you get to build things from your grind, not just trade them in for a piece of equipment your going to delete in 2 levels.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    48. Re:Preorder now! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Considering principles on a situational basis means you don't really have those principles.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    49. Re:Preorder now! by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      In case you want to get rid of that grind, it's fairly easy to come out with a jackpot every-time if you switch your role from 'miner' to 'Indiana Jones'-styled explorer of caves.

      It does take a modicum of digging to get to most systems, but most cave systems are formed with enough knots and twists that you can hit bedrock and not even realize that you've actually gone that far down. And a tunnel in the 'sweet spot' levels just above the ceiling where lava spawns a veins will be full of resources just sitting out in the open waiting for you to scoop up. You just have to be able to get down there and back.

    50. Re:Preorder now! by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      If there's one thing I don't do, it's buy software that isn't written yet.

      I've spent the last few weeks enjoying this "not yet written" software with my son. For a combined price of $25, we've enjoyed countless hours together playing this game and comparing notes... it would be worth the $12 or so it cost me without any updates at all!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    51. Re:Preorder now! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      That's the most fun way to get resources, and by far my favorite way to get iron (since iron is relatively common and appears from the waterline down). But for diamonds, I haven't found spelunking to be a reliable source. Not enough of the caves are in the diamond sweet spot. The occasional diamond vein is a nice bonus on top everything else I get, but for serious diamond/redstone mining branch mining is the fastest way.

      Granted, spelunking is more fun, so I do more of that than mining. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    52. Re:Preorder now! by l0b0 · · Score: 1

      I just tested in mian (disclaimer: shameless self-promotion), and it looks like the distribution is identical: Sharp rise in the first five blocks from the bottom of the map, then flat until about 50, and tapering off to zero around 70.

    53. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best video to describe what the game is about:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhs8_m5qPc

    54. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. Money well spent, even if I never play it again.

    55. Re:Preorder now! by trollertron3000 · · Score: 0

      But how is this any better than second life? You can do all that in second life. It just has a different style.

      --
      Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
    56. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You paid money to spend hundreds of hours moving virtual dirt. Who's blindly following what again?

    57. Re:Preorder now! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Oh, so those who paid LESS in the beginning get more in the end.

      Yea, fuck that unequal treatment.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    58. Re:Preorder now! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Since I only heard of the game from Penny Arcade, whose comics coincided (and partially caused it seems) the collapse of the webserver and the seizure of funds by Pay-Pal, and thus got to play for free over that weekend, I personally had 10 Euros worth of fun before I even payed! So when I bought it, I was basically rewarding the game maker for the fun I had already had, and the chances of me feeling short-changed by the transaction were zero.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    59. Re:Preorder now! by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Quake Live blows this away with about 1/3 of the resource usage and much higher graphical detail.

      For not even Q3 graphics, this thing makes a fucking HD4200 lag out.

      It shouldn't make a GEFORCE 3 stutter.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    60. Re:Preorder now! by hkmwbz · · Score: 2

      Do scary monsters come out at night? Is SL a game o exploration and survival in a hostile and mystical world?

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    61. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the minerals are at the bottom of the map, just above the bedrock layer. Spelunking to find minerals takes a LONG time, and you can get attacked by monsters. You need to build a MINE in Minecraft to get the most resources. Here is a video explaining branch mining...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az4KihqqRGk

    62. Re:Preorder now! by hkmwbz · · Score: 2

      Quake Live blows this away with about 1/3 of the resource usage and much higher graphical detail.

      Ooh! Better graphics! Who gives a flying fuck?? Graphics are completely irrelevant, unless you are a 13 year old whiny hardcore gamer.

      What matters is if it's fun.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    63. Re:Preorder now! by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      That's the most fun way to get resources, and by far my favorite way to get iron (since iron is relatively common and appears from the waterline down). But for diamonds, I haven't found spelunking to be a reliable source. Not enough of the caves are in the diamond sweet spot. The occasional diamond vein is a nice bonus on top everything else I get, but for serious diamond/redstone mining branch mining is the fastest way.

      Granted, spelunking is more fun, so I do more of that than mining. :)

      All I do as well, other than building up my base and doing some farming in my rooftop garden. If a cave's got dark spots, I'm not happy. I also don't feel bad about my nigh-infinite use diamond pick and shovel, thank you INVEdit. Did my first map with stone tools I kept remaking, got boring. Like using a no-clip cheat to get past a frustrating spot one surmounted before, I cheat myself something to make my cave trekking go faster. And then a creeper blows me up.

    64. Re:Preorder now! by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      Why are you whining? People who are willing to put up with alpha related bugs are rewarded. Early adopters are rewarded. Is that supposed to be a problem?

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    65. Re:Preorder now! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      I find spelunking with stone tools (and one iron pick) is fine, since the only things I'm really digging out are ore veins I come across and incidental digging to help navigate the cave. Not like mining where every step forward is two ticks of pick durability, though honestly even then I use stone tools because the whole point is to increase my collection of diamonds.

      Once I started basically hollowing out a mountain for a large base with metro station, I started thinking about hacking diamond tools... But instead I settled on using a map viewer to identify profitable locations for branch mining. It gives me the satisfaction of actually digging out the ore myself, while preventing exceedingly frustrating bouts of mining with nothing to show, and keeping the hackery to a minimum.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    66. Re:Preorder now! by toriver · · Score: 1

      What, you suggest he should get a loan or talk to some VC dude? All software is financed somehow, there is nothing wrong by doing it his way, the people who actually pay (instead of being whining non-players like you) seem to enjoy it.

    67. Re:Preorder now! by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      Sigh, yet another it's only good if it looks bad fanboi. Don't you think it should be the case that a game which looks like minecraft would drastically outperform many fancy-graphic-eye-candy titles? Except what we see is the complete opposite. I understand that some of the things he's doing (such as updating thousands of individual blocks) are resource intensive but if there ARE things he could be doing to offload work onto GPU's then doing you think he should do so? How about the positive way performance in general would affect the game? If the game didn't lag all the time why, it just might be more fun!

      Just because someone makes a comparison to a game with "uber graphix" doesn't mean they're threatening Minecraft and it's blocksy charm. Get a grip.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    68. Re:Preorder now! by smisle · · Score: 2

      What's really fucked up is when the early adopters pay more and get less .. oh wait, that's how every other company does it

      --
      I'm not a bird, I'm a super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur!
    69. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit, it's java.

    70. Re:Preorder now! by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the Early Adoption Syndrome, where an early purchase means you're subject to a worse product at a higher cost, should apply universally, dammit!

    71. Re:Preorder now! by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      You have a higher chance of finding minerals in naturally generated caves than if you just started digging out a massive quarry somewhere. Look for large natural cave systems and explore them; you'll find minerals way faster.

    72. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure he's talking about 24/7 front line tech support with no coffee.

    73. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no. girlfriend leads to fiance, fiance leads to marriage, marriage leads to suffering. Stick with Minecraft.

    74. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about. Notch has experience so it's not like he came out of the woodwork and made millions. He previously worked on several other projects for another company. So no, he didn't "just" show them up. However, he did successfully sell a game on his own and reap the rewards by himself.

      He basically found an idea that was simple enough and capitalized on it. His risked paid off and now we get to see what he does with his pay off. To everyone's happiness he didn't run off into a hole with his money. He re-invested the cash into the game and creating a new software company. Wow. How about that. The way in which capitalism is supposed to work.

      Notch just shows that *publishers* are the ones that are the major issue in the gaming industry. They stifle innovation or decent ideas that sound fruity on paper but when put to the test or risked actually work out in the end. Sure they'll be failures who try to copy Notch's success, but eventually there will be another. Hell Braid and Limbo show that decent games can be created without an overbearing publisher.

    75. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was my gripe too, that minerals are so hard to find. But then I created a new world recently... it looks like the iron probability was increased a lot, but only shows up in new worlds, or when new map chunks are generated in old worlds.

      I also have found the odds of discovering Iron have increased massively. Before I was struggling to find anything on a Survival Multiplayer Server.

      However, recently me and friend spent a day mining (exploring a natural cavern and then digging 2x1 tunnels around diamond level (16 blocks above bedrock), two apart. The end result was about 1000 iron ore, and about 120 diamonds.
      I'm beginning to suspect that the mountainous biomes have more resources in the cave systems but I currently have no evidence to back this up.

      I'm currently trying to build a massive fort, it's approximately 40x40x25 which uses an impressive amount of cobblestone so it may be I just found a lot of ore extracting the cobblestone.

    76. Re:Preorder now! by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      The creativity everyone is going nuts over, could be solved with a less grindy set of legos. At the end of the day I at least have a lego structure I don't have to drag people over to my computer to show off.

      Minecraft takes the grindy aspects of WoW professions and merges it with a farmville and a graphics engine that wasn't acceptable two decades ago. It is an unpolished turd that was wrapped up and bow tied by sites like Penny Arcade and Slashdot and the geek crowd latched onto because they thought it was cool.

    77. Re:Preorder now! by trollertron3000 · · Score: 0

      It can be anything you want it to be. It's a toolkit to build worlds. It's not my thing but it's similar. It's not too far off from minecraft.

      --
      Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
    78. Re:Preorder now! by TraumaER · · Score: 1

      Agreed with the coward... it's java. I think we can agree that it is not the most efficient language out there, and DocHoncho makes a good point in that it should run faster regardless. I believe the problem comes in that it has to render all the blocks in the render distance selected. However with the latest release the leaf decay is what is causing the lag as of late. If you consider how many blocks the game is rendering, granting 2 triangles per face 6 faces per block so that's 12 triangles per block times the number of blocks... don't ask me how many are rendered. For all intents and purposes lets say a shit ton. The number of triangles drawn is probably more that what is drawn in Quake live. Say it's not triangles but squares (most of the time it is triangles) I'm willing to bet there are still more faces drawn at one time than what is drawn in quake. Just saying there is a lot of math and calls to draw_block() being implemented in an inefficient world.

    79. Re:Preorder now! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      a graphics engine that wasn't acceptable two decades ago.

      Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!

      Go play with your legos; legos are cool. That'll be more productive than trying to troll people who actually played video games two decades ago. :)

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    80. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they're called furries.

    81. Re:Preorder now! by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      Sigh, yet another it's only good if it looks bad fanboi.

      Excuse me? In case you didn't notice, I said that graphics are completely irrelevant. Which part of that could you possibly interpret as "it's only good if it looks bad"? You can't. You are just inventing lies out of desperation.

      Don't you think it should be the case that a game which looks like minecraft would drastically outperform many fancy-graphic-eye-candy titles?

      This is based on your own blatant lie about what I said. What I actually said was that graphics don't matter. People don't give a shit.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    82. Re:Preorder now! by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      You still missed the point that despite the simple graphics the game performs HORRIBLY and the bad performance detracts from the fun of the game. People DO give a shit about a game not lagging because the developer can't be bothered to optimize the graphics code.

      The GP only pointed out that even a game like Quake Live which, tangentially, has better graphics outperforms Minecraft. There is no excuse for why Minecraft is dragging even a modern graphics card to its knees when it isn't even doing anything all that special.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    83. Re:Preorder now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quake Live blows this away with about 1/3 of the resource usage and much higher graphical detail.

      Ooh! Better graphics! Who gives a flying fuck?? Graphics are completely irrelevant, unless you are a 13 year old whiny hardcore gamer.

      What matters is if it's fun.

      I think you misunderstood the parent, he wasn't complaining about the graphical 'quality', but graphical optimization, that games with far more advanced graphics can run with far less resources.
       
      The guy was making a complaint about the programming, not the art style.

  4. Poor programmer? by gilleain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Regardless of whether you blame Minecraft's success on luck or Notch's genius, he's a rather poor programmer. If you read through the release notes on his blog, he's apparently incapable of adding features without breaking lots of stuff on the way and waiting for him to fix basic functionality can take months.

    I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know that programming 'under the spotlight' can be very distracting. What with twitter, blog comments, and forums there are far too many ways for the customer base to contact Notch 24/7. That's got to make fixing stuff hard if people are constantly shouting "FIX IT!" in your ear.

    1. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not really, he really is a bad programmer.
      I'm not even sure if he knows what the Undo functionality is of whatever he is using.

      He regularly fucks up even the most simplistic of things when he shouldn't have even been NEAR that section.
      He is too messy, he dabbles around with everything at once, instead of focusing on one tiny section at a time.
      Hell, the game STILL CRASHES WHEN IT EXITS. Seriously, launch it from command prompt, watch those errors roll!
      Not to mention myself, along with countless other people, have to run MC (standalone) from command prompt with a JVM memory limit because Notch has done god knows what to screw even that up.
      Game works fine in browser, but as soon as it hits that c drive and you start it yourself, oh boy.
      And apparently he was at some code-athon recently, which as a huge let down i hear. (not sure myself though)

      Now the game is too crashy to even play on SMP, eggs crash the game at random points, shit duplicating like crazy.
      Server-side inventory was supposed to FIX duplication bugs, not make it 10 times easier!
      Well, just heard from friend that the more recent patch to this update (god) is a little less buggy, so there is some hope this game will be completed by 2020...

    2. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's your video game bro? Can I play it? Or is the ETA on your tetris clone set to AD 2030 because you have OCPD and you stress out over the tiniest, most insignificant details?

    3. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      • the game STILL CRASHES WHEN IT EXITS
      • too crashy to even play on SMP
      • eggs crash the game at random points
      • shit duplicating like crazy

      Where's your video game bro? Or is the ETA on your tetris clone set to AD 2030 because you have OCPD and you stress out over the tiniest, most insignificant details?

      This is officially the world's dumbest argument. Not only is his criticism totally unfounded in your eyes because you don't know if he's written his own game, you consider major impediments to running the game "insignificant details".

    4. Re:Poor programmer? by KovaaK · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I've never had Minecraft crash on me. Are you playing a pirated copy or something?

      SMP required a rather large re-write, so there are definitely issues with it. Considering that server-side inventory was just released (in beta-state, mind you), issues like item duplication are almost expected.

    5. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He hasn't written his own game, or he wouldn't be making these arguments. Anyone who has realizes that shipping the actual game is of paramount importance, everything else be damned.

      FYI, Oblivion crashed at exit on most people's computers. Was this raised as an important issue? NO - absolutely never. Those players who grew annoyed by it wrote an injection hook routine to solve it.

      And lest the significance of this fact be wasted upon you: the game is said to be in beta. In most small-team development cycles this means the product is barely two steps above a successful compilation.

    6. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm pretty tired of the "unless you've done something better, shut up" argument. Why do I need to demonstrate I'm a super-star programmer before I can complain about a game that isn't fun? Or a best-selling musician before I can comment on how crappy certain songs are? If I call a film out as having really poorly-acted, is my opinion invalid because I'm not Ian McKellan?

      If you have released something into the public eye, and it is flawed, then you know what? I'm going to say so. I'm not going to hold my mouth shut while thinking "well, I don't know how to fix his game-save corruption bug, so I guess it's none of my business", especially if I've paid for the damned thing. I'm going to say "Hey, what happened to my save? Fix it!" And likewise, if they make something great, then I'll say so too. If the programmer/musician/actor/whoever is worth their salt, they'll learn from the criticism, and graciously accept the praise.

      Now, don't get me wrong; the AC above was being whiny, especially given the game's literally under 24 hours out of Alpha. But just tell them "Hey, you're being a whiny bitch, file a bug report and enjoy what works", not "Could I just see your programming credentials? Oh, Mr. Newell, I didn't know... I guess this means you were right all along."

    7. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well to notches credit most games have large teams working on them and there are plenty of bugs constantly being fixed. I think the guy is doing a rather good job. Lets think of the positive here, and if you really don't like it..guess what? Don't pay for or play it!

    8. Re:Poor programmer? by NoSleepDemon · · Score: 1

      Actually what you're describing is more an alpha build, a beta build should be a virtually stable and complete build requiring only 'minor' tweaks, and should be ready for large scale testing.

    9. Re:Poor programmer? by skyride · · Score: 2

      Talking as someone who has been running half a dozen or so Minecraft servers for a few months, I've only seen more and more features added. If you think about it from a logical point of view, its quite easy to see why its causing so many problems. Aside from breaking server-side plugins every update (which is hardly unique to minecraft), there haven't been any major issues.

    10. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a fine argument to make for minor application software, web apps, or anything critical. When you're talking about 3-man indie groups releasing a complex game to tens of thousands of PC configurations in as short a time as possible, "alpha" essentially means "the non-released development state the game has been in for the last year."

      AAA publishers have literally hundreds (pushing 1,000+ for a game like SC2) of QA testers working on it before/during beta stage. With indies, typically the game rarely gets thoroughly tested until after beta releases.

    11. Re:Poor programmer? by Tr3vin · · Score: 1

      The game crashing on exit isn't necessarily his fault. The 3D library he is using, LWJGL, has some problems freeing the GL context when it shuts down. I've dealt with those errors in Linux and it appears it is some combination of how LWGL creates its context and what X expects. This of course doesn't excuse the rest of his code.

    12. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poor Programmer is a relative term. He is very creative, ambitious, and has been able to create something almost single handed that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy. And he's a millionaire from it, so if success is your measure, he's a pretty good programmer. However he's not very systematic in his development from what I've observed, and he does not appear to have much in the way of quality control checking. I don't think he even uses a real code versioning system. By the classic definitions of 'good programming', I think he would get a bad grade. I think he is just out to create something that is fun, and hasn't really thought out the whole scalability thing. He has admitted he never thought it would get this popular. He's hired some people and if he's smart, he'll give them the tasks he is bad at like creating a test suite and versioning the code etc. so he can concentrate on what he's good at.

    13. Re:Poor programmer? by siride · · Score: 1

      He switched to Git (from nothing) a few weeks ago, according to his blog. I was surprised it took this long.

    14. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Hell, the game STILL CRASHES WHEN IT EXITS. Seriously, launch it from command prompt, watch those errors roll!

      All I get when quitting the game is this:

      AL lib: ALc.c:1352: exit(): closing 1 Device
      AL lib: ALc.c:1329: alcCloseDevice(): destroying 1 Context
      AL lib: alSource.c:2361: alcDestroyContext(): deleting 32 Source(s)

      Those aren't errors...

      > And apparently he was at some code-athon recently, which as a huge let down i hear. (not sure myself though)

      He started an entry for the Ludum Dare contest but couldn't complete it since he didn't have enough time (because of morons like you go mental when he misses a Minecraft deadline).

      > Not to mention myself, along with countless other people, have to run MC (standalone) from command prompt with a JVM memory limit because Notch has done god knows what to screw even that up.
      > Game works fine in browser, but as soon as it hits that c drive and you start it yourself, oh boy.

      Probably an issue with your Java installation. The whole memory thing in Java is a bit of a mess, but what can he do? Mostly the default limit is set to 64 mb which isn't really enough for a game which uses OpenGL, OpenAL, etc...

      > Now the game is too crashy to even play on SMP, eggs crash the game at random points, shit duplicating like crazy.
      > Server-side inventory was supposed to FIX duplication bugs, not make it 10 times easier!

      The game is in beta (and he does make that fact obvious) - not its final version. Big companies like EA wouldn't release a game until it is ready - these things are expected.

    15. Re:Poor programmer? by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Game works fine in browser, but as soon as it hits that c drive and you start it yourself, oh boy. And apparently he was at some code-athon recently, which as a huge let down i hear. (not sure myself though)

      Odd, I had the opposite issue. I couldn't get it to run at all in the browser. I only was able to play after I downloaded an alpha copy to /home/

    16. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. There is one huge thing everyone is overlooking, with regards to his coding skill. He has two seperate code bases for SMP and single player. WHY?! Merge the code bases and do what every other game does that offers both single player and multiple on the same engine... start a server and connect to it locally behind the scenes. If he did that, he would only have to fix the code in one spot instead of two. Maybe then, I could destroy a minecart in SMP without it shaking and never going away.

    17. Re:Poor programmer? by MostAwesomeDude · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He is a terrible programmer.

      He doesn't use Java NIO; instead, he uses threads. Wanna guess how many threads he spawns on startup? How about how many threads he spawns per connected player? (Answer: 12 and 4.)

      His wire protocol and disk format are horrible. No delimiters, no seekability, no fixed packet sizes. He invented his own little standards and they are horrible. http://www.minecraft.net/docs/NBT.txt is the disk format; before that, he just serialized the Java classes directly to disk. (And to wire; one of the Alpha wire packets was just a chunk of the disk format!)

      His grasp of GL is embarrassingly awful. He pridefully boasts GL 1.1 compatibility, but the fact is that he uses no features or extensions from GL 1.2 or later, including shaders, dynamic lighting, or vertex buffer objects. All of the drawing is done in slow display lists, and the lighting is done through a statically stored light map. (This might not set off alarm bells if you haven't done GL before. Trust me when I say that this is horribly slow.)

      I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the fact that he has charged for alpha-quality software, as part of an open alpha test.

      --
      ~ C.
    18. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you happen to have some links to some info about NIO, or why it's a better idea than using threads? It's the first I've heard of NIO, and the topic interests me. Thanks for any info.

    19. Re:Poor programmer? by trollertron3000 · · Score: 0

      And why do you play this again? It sounds like fun if you're idea of fun is debugging.

      --
      Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
    20. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never had Minecraft crash on me. Are you playing a pirated copy or something?

      SMP required a rather large re-write, so there are definitely issues with it. Considering that server-side inventory was just released (in beta-state, mind you), issues like item duplication are almost expected.

      You never had Minecraft crash on you? You just haven't played for long enough.
      Typical Minecraft crashes:
      Your afk for to long on a MP server.
      You eat something.
      Walking around doing nothing.
      Something that involves TNT.
      Loging into a MP server.
      Resizing the window.
      Going into fullscreen.

    21. Re:Poor programmer? by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the fact that he has charged for alpha-quality software, as part of an open alpha test.

      Why is that a problem? Anyone who bought it during alpha gets all future updates for free. That, and the price was so ridiculously low it's laughable.

      Quit your whining already. You are just jealous that he made a kickass game that became insanely popular, and you still can't get a real job.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    22. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty tired of the "unless you've done something better, shut up" argument. Why do I need to demonstrate I'm a super-star programmer before I can complain about a game that isn't fun?

      You don't. You DO need to be at least a good programmer before you can comment on the skill of the programmer.

      If you have released something into the public eye, and it is flawed, then you know what? I'm going to say so. I'm not going to hold my mouth shut while thinking "well, I don't know how to fix his game-save corruption bug, so I guess it's none of my business", especially if I've paid for the damned thing. I'm going to say "Hey, what happened to my save? Fix it!"

      No one said you can't request bugs to be fixed.

      Now, don't get me wrong; the AC above was being whiny, especially given the game's literally under 24 hours out of Alpha. But just tell them "Hey, you're being a whiny bitch, file a bug report and enjoy what works", not "Could I just see your programming credentials? Oh, Mr. Newell, I didn't know... I guess this means you were right all along."

      He didn't complain about bugs existing, he complained that Notch was a bad programmer because bugs existed. There's a difference.

      Without knowledge in a subject matter, your opinion on it is worthless. If I told you I was playing a game and had 5 points, is that good, or bad? you don't know, because you don't have anything to compare it to. If a program is released with 10 bugs, you can't say the programmer is good or bad, without knowing something about programming. (or at Least, statistics about numbers of bugs in small indie game).

      Any user can bitch about bugs. Only another programmer has the knowledge to call another programmer good/bad.

    23. Re:Poor programmer? by MostAwesomeDude · · Score: 2
      --
      ~ C.
    24. Re:Poor programmer? by fredklein · · Score: 1

      Minecarts 'break' in SMP just fine for me. True, they don't 'shake' when being hit, but...

    25. Re:Poor programmer? by MostAwesomeDude · · Score: 1, Informative

      You sound like a Notch shill. How's that going for you? :3

      You are just jealous that he made a kickass game that became insanely popular, and you still can't get a real job

      I work for OSUOSL. Is that not a real job?

      --
      ~ C.
    26. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... yet he's a millionaire and you're not :)

    27. Re:Poor programmer? by grimsweep · · Score: 2

      You've written quite a bit here about optimization. I certainly won't dispute that there's room for improvement, but I think you're missing something crucial. Minecraft has, and perhaps never will be, a game that relies on graphics, high-performance architecture, or even a reasonable FPS. If architecture bothers you that much, there's no shortage of games out there built on very robust engines such as the UDK. Instead, Notch has wisely chosen to focus on doing his best to refine the actual gameplay. The end result is a literally endless, randomly generated world that for some reason people are willing to pay good money to play in.

      As for his choice of rendering tech, it's noteworthy to point out OpenGL 1.1 is one of the few graphics choices left that will practically run on anything calling itself a GPU.

    28. Re:Poor programmer? by MostAwesomeDude · · Score: 1

      It bothered me so much that I went out and built an open-source server which uses less RAM and CPU. This is not unlike my burning hatred of fglrx. :3

      --
      ~ C.
    29. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Statically stored lightmap isn't a slow path even on modern GPUs (maybe you only meant that display lists were slower than VBOs, but your sentence was quite confusing in that case, so I assume you meant it as I read it.)

      The downside to a lightmap is inherent in the word "statically" - when something happens that modifies the landscape or whatever it doesn't change the lighting parameters. And it takes extra work to have a static lightmap interact in any way with dynamic light sources. It's been several years since I did any 3d engine programming, but even then (maybe a year or two after Q3A came out) it was pretty well understood that lightmaps were only to be used for self-illuminated objects, because they would completely screw up any kind of shadows or occlusion.

      Haven't played Minecraft though - I understand it's like a poor man's Dwarf Fortress, minus the Adventure Mode and detailed world, but with 3d graphics instead of Roguelike? If that's the case, a static lightmap would be truly inadvisable for the landscape, as when you do terraforming / building it should cast occlusions, but the lightmap will cause the hillside underneath your tower to "glow" when the sun is out, unless you render a dynamic shadow map to texture and alter the lightmap accordingly... which sounds so painful I don't even want to think about it, and I hope he didn't take the time to do that when a few OpenGL 2.0 (not to mention 3 or 4) features could have handled that for him with no sweat.

    30. Re:Poor programmer? by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      While you certainly have a point with regard to the graphical style of Minecraft, you totally missed the point of the OP which was that by using the more advanced capabilities of OpenGL Mincraft could keep it's charming look and boost performance. He never said a single thing about adding fancy graphics and HDR and all that. Simply that Notch is using methods which have terrible performance and that there is room for improvement if more modern techniques were used. Hell, maybe he could even get rid of that lighting bug which just won't go away.

      And as for not requiring decent FPS... well maybe you like constant lag and frame hiccups, but I rather suspect you're quite alone in that. Sure, you don't need that 120 FPS so you can get headshots on n00bs but it is kind of nice to have a smooth framerate while playing a game.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    31. Re:Poor programmer? by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      I know when I'm coding, I keep constant text-to-speech going that reads out all the complaints people have had about my software. I know it makes me a worse programmer, being continually distracted by criticism, but hey... I can't stop it.

      So I could see how his would be a problem.

      --
      I see the fnords!
    32. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a bullshit argument. Sounds like it's coming from an elitist programmer who doesn't want to be called out on his own crap code so he preemptively discredits anyone who might speak out.

    33. Re:Poor programmer? by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Ok then, you are shitty at whatever job it is that you do. It doesn't matter that I have no idea what that job entails, I still somehow know that you are shitty at it.

      Doesn't really make sense, does it?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    34. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why you don't use Java.

    35. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I crash quite often in Minecraft, and I'm not using a pirated version. Null pointer exception, socket errors are the norm for this game.

    36. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OT, but I'm not sure if I'm impressed or offended by that URL. Interpreting the final slash as a character rather than a separator is a neat trick, but the pedant in me thinks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_I/ ought to mean something.

    37. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First things first:

      He didn't complain about bugs existing, he complained that Notch was a bad programmer because bugs existed. There's a difference.

      I've already said I don't agree with the original poster. My complaint is with the reasoning behind your response; what he had to say isn't the issue. Now, on with the matter at hand.

      Without knowledge in a subject matter, your opinion on it is worthless. If I told you I was playing a game and had 5 points, is that good, or bad? you don't know, because you don't have anything to compare it to.

      That's true. But conversely, if you then tell me what the game is, I DO know, and I CAN make a comparison, without having to have made the blasted thing myself. There are degrees of knowledge, and the idea that you have to be >= the talent of the creator in order to have enough knowledge to know whether something is flawed is crap. I am a gamer. I've played games for over two decades now. Hardcore games, casual games, big games, homebrew games, browser games, console games, PC games, you name it. So you know what? It doesn't matter that I've never sat down at wrote my own Quake - I know games, and I can judge. Otherwise, what you're saying is that every critic out there, every review system, every commentary on every media there is, is worthless, because 99% of the people writing the reviews and making the comments are not themselves creators of that type of media.

      Essentially, I'm crying foul on your comment "Only another programmer has the knowledge to call another programmer good/bad." No, they don't. You don't have to be a bricklayer to know a builder did a shitty job when the door doesn't fit the frame, you don't have a be a master cake decorater to understand why the stuff on cake wrecks is so bad, and you don't need to be a programmer to know that Big Rigs: Over The Road racing to proclaim that it was one of the worst games ever made.

    38. Re:Poor programmer? by Atrox666 · · Score: 1

      This is why the way computer programs are created must under go a major shift. Writing programs like we do today is a painful labourious process few people can do well. This is a fundamental weakness in the approach and tool set. Most programmers believe the problem is the vast majority of humanity and not with shitty tools. I'd rather see designs come from creative people and code generation be more automated and less mechanized. They shouldn't generally need programmers for most tasks. Much like how no one really does a lot of actual css/html these days the people who build programs will soon not even really be "coders".

    39. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you then tell me what the game is, I DO know, and I CAN make a comparison, without having to have made the blasted thing myself.

      In this case, knowing 'what the game is' is knowing programming.

      the idea that you have to be >= the talent of the creator in order to have enough knowledge to know whether something is flawed is crap.

      Perfectly true (for your definition of 'crap').

      You don't have to be a bricklayer to know a builder did a shitty job when the door doesn't fit the frame

      But doing a bad job does not mean your are a bad worker. Maybe you were sick that day. Maybe you were told the wrong size for the door. Maybe you laid the bricks correctly, but the frame wasn't strong enough to support the weight and it sagged.

      Yes, anyone can say the WORK is wrong/bad. But, unless you know the profession, and the conditionss under which the work was done, you cannot criticize the WORKER.

    40. Re:Poor programmer? by AAWood · · Score: 1

      But doing a bad job does not mean your are a bad worker.

      Isn't that pretty much the definition of a bad worker?

      Maybe you were sick that day. Maybe you were told the wrong size for the door. Maybe you laid the bricks correctly, but the frame wasn't strong enough to support the weight and it sagged.

      At the danger of arguing the metaphor, those would all be things a bad worker would do. If I was too sick to competently do the job, I wouldn't do it until I was well; I'd delay or hand off. If I was told the wrong size, they while I might again have to delay and charge extra, I wouldn't just shove in the wrong one and call it a day. If the frame I built wasn't strong enough to support the door I was putting in, and I didn't realise that, then hey; my bad.

      And to leave the metaphor alone and get back to the point, the argument "you can only comment when you're at least as good as the person doing the work" let's everyone off for any reason. Maybe that worker did a shitty job of putting on the door because he turned up drunk with the wrong kind of wood but, hey, you're not a builder so for all you know he's *meant* to turn up with a traffic cone on his head and glue a load of pencils together for the panels, right? I mean, who's the expert here? I've seen comedy sketches based around taking that idea to it's conclusion.

      No, screw that. I paid for a fitted door, I got the damned measurements you told me to get, the way you told me to get them. You screwed it up, and I want it sorted.

      (And I'd *love* to hear your excuses for the Cake Wrecks stuff ;) )

    41. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like a Notch shill. How's that going for you? :3

      You are just jealous that he made a kickass game that became insanely popular, and you still can't get a real job

      I work for OSUOSL. Is that not a real job?

      I like play game with the digging and the explodey sad-face monster.

    42. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the danger of arguing the metaphor, those would all be things a bad worker would do. If I was too sick to competently do the job, I wouldn't do it until I was well; I'd delay or hand off.

      I'm glad you appear to be in a job that allows you to... not do your job. The rest of us have to work, even if we are sick or not feeling 100%. And that occasionally leads to mistakes.

      If I was told the wrong size, they while I might again have to delay and charge extra, I wouldn't just shove in the wrong one and call it a day.

      And Notch releases new versions to fix bugs. Just like you'd re-do the job (but you'd charge more!).

      If the frame I built wasn't strong enough to support the door I was putting in, and I didn't realise that, then hey; my bad.

      You think Notch wrote Java himself? Hahahahaha!!! He programs IN Java, but he didn't PROGRAM Java. So, when Java (the 'frame' he 'lays bricks' in) has a bug, he has to figure out the issue and work around it.

      And to leave the metaphor alone and get back to the point, the argument "you can only comment when you're at least as good as the person doing the work" let's everyone off for any reason.

      I never said that. I said that you need to at least be "a good programmer" before you can comment on the skill of the programmer. I never said you needed to be AS good or better than the other person .

      Maybe that worker did a shitty job of putting on the door because he turned up drunk with the wrong kind of wood but, hey, you're not a builder...

      There's a HUGE difference between criticizing someone for a basic work violation like showing up drunk, and criticizing them for a job-specific reason. Of course I don't need to be a carpenter to know showing up for work drunk (as a carpenter or any other job!) is bad. Duh. But, I cannot criticize him for how he's doing the actual carpentry, unless I know something about carpentry. Maybe I think he's going too slowly, but he (the carpentry expert) knows that the procedure he's doing is tricky. Maybe I see him going 'too fast', but that's because he's done this part 1000 times before, and can do it in his sleep. Maybe I think he's using too little or too much glue, but he (the expert) knows how much is needed. I think he's silly to use screws instead of nails, but he knows what works. Etc. etc.

      By the same token, you cannot stand there and say 'his program has bugs, he's a bad programmer' unless you know programming. For all you know, his program actually has FEWER bugs than other similar programs. Maybe Java is difficult to program in, in which case, he's doing an amazing job only having this many bugs. Maybe java is super-simple-it'll-hold-your-hand-easy to program in, in which case he may very well be a bad programmer. But you don't know that unless you know something about programming in Java.

      I paid for a fitted door, I got the damned measurements you told me to get, the way you told me to get them. You screwed it up, and I want it sorted.

      And that's quite reasonable.

    43. Re:Poor programmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the danger of arguing the metaphor, those would all be things a bad worker would do. If I was too sick to competently do the job, I wouldn't do it until I was well; I'd delay or hand off.

      I'm glad you appear to be in a job that allows you to... not do your job. The rest of us have to work, even if we are sick or not feeling 100%

      Bullcrap. If your company is making you work when you're in a state where you can't do the job, then you're a liability, nobody involved is making a good decision, and a law is probably being broken... if you're not being a bad worker, then your boss is. Unless you're blaming your mistakes on a slight case of the sniffles or some other minor illness, in which case it rolls right back to just you being a bad worker.

      If I was told the wrong size, they while I might again have to delay and charge extra, I wouldn't just shove in the wrong one and call it a day.

      And Notch releases new versions to fix bugs. Just like you'd re-do the job (but you'd charge more!).

      And I'm not talking about specifically about Notch because, again, *I don't agree with the original posters comments about the man*. We're talking about the theory that you're not allowed to comment on a creation of any kind unless you personally are more talented than the creator. Quit the strawman arguments, OK?

      And to leave the metaphor alone and get back to the point, the argument "you can only comment when you're at least as good as the person doing the work" let's everyone off for any reason.

      I never said that. I said that you need to at least be "a good programmer" before you can comment on the skill of the programmer. I never said you needed to be AS good or better than the other person .

      Except that is what I was complaining about, way up there, and what you're commenting in response to. So you're either drifting off topic, or you've been defending a stance you don't actually believe in this whole time; choose your poison.

      Of course I don't need to be a carpenter to know showing up for work drunk (as a carpenter or any other job!) is bad. Duh.

      Which is, in fact, my entire point. People often use this reasoning across the internet to defend poor work, and in a lot of cases it doesn't fit, because often the layman CAN identify flaws, and DOES have a legitimate reason and grounding to comment. I don't agree with shutting someone's arguments down, however flawed, with a simple "Well let's see YOUR game/song/film then. Oh, you don't have one?" If someone's criticism is flawed, then tell them why; it's the only way they'll learn. A good internet argument can lead to both parties walking away understanding both views a little better (even if they don't want to admit it), and if nothing else can be entertaining for the bystanders.

  5. The alpha was well worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I bought the alpha a few months ago, and while I haven't played it recently due to time contraints, it is easily well worth the money that is being charged. I played it far more than games that cost three times as much, not to mention that when playing it, I was never frustrated, or angry, but thoroughly enjoying the experience, which is something I can't say about most games, not to mention ones that aren't even freaking finished yet!

    1. Re:The alpha was well worth it by Vernes · · Score: 1

      I spend money to obliterate my free time. What was I thinking?

    2. Re:The alpha was well worth it by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      when playing it, I was never frustrated, or angry, but thoroughly enjoying the experience

      You must be a masochist. I love Minecraft, but I've done my share of shrieking profanities at my monitor.

      "Dear diary, I finally found a diamond deposit! OMG, it's a six-block vein! I just have to get out over that lava field... what was that noise?"

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
    3. Re:The alpha was well worth it by fprintf · · Score: 1

      Hrrrrrrrrr

      SSSSSsssssss! Boom!

      I hate that too, and always the boom destroys that 6 block diamond deposit, and then you have to remember which freakin' direction your spawn point was from your awesome homebase.

      Either that or you do like I did and dig underneath lava and have the lava destroy all the diamond blocks. No! Stop! Argh!

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    4. Re:The alpha was well worth it by am+2k · · Score: 1

      I'm having huge issues with that game. I only bought it a few days ago (reading about how it'll go more expensive soon), and looked into it for a brief time, so I could get to know my purchase for a bit (having time constraints myself).

      Well, the "just 5 minutes more" now turns into about 2 hours usually, and I get up waaay too late every day... Damn.

    5. Re:The alpha was well worth it by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

      No! Stop! Argh!

      Exactly. I built a whole series of automated rails just so I could race back from spawn.

      --
      "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
  6. minutes matter by Nineteen-Delta · · Score: 0

    Does anyone want me to _vaguely promise_ to supply them with some lego blocks? - I can take pre-orders for only $10 / My swiss bank account number is....34568q35689uyq35698uy. -Blocks to follow sometime...... But if you paid and it turns out to be vapour-ware do you have any recourse?

    1. Re:minutes matter by gilleain · · Score: 2

      Wait a minute, that's not a swiss bank account number! :)

      Paying for an alpha is not exactly paying for vapourware. It's more like half-condensed-ware or semisolidware. It's really been a fun game, and was (mostly) worth the money. Crashes every sunrise and sunset was annoying until a reinstall fixed that.

    2. Re:minutes matter by empty_other · · Score: 1

      If you could promise me a relatively big supply of lego-blocks (about 4,080,576,000 bricks in 91 different colors, and add a few decorative items) for about 15 USD. And if you on top of that give me a vague promise for free new blocks in the future, you got yourself a deal!

    3. Re:minutes matter by Vernes · · Score: 1

      Only if you can first send some free blocks first. Limited in functionality like only single colored blocks. Only one lego-person. But Access to your community forum. I'll decide after I give it a try.

    4. Re:minutes matter by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      Oh, and don't forget the procedural lego kit design generator.

    5. Re:minutes matter by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      If I could see those bricks right now, and they would be given to me immediately after our transaction, and I would be getting a fairly steady supply of new bricks as time went on for no additional price, then you would have a similar system to Minecraft's pre-order.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    6. Re:minutes matter by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Maybe. Are the lego Blocks in the shape of a world? can I build a castle from glass with them? powered mine cars? Have other people purchased from you and been happy? Can I play with a demo version of the blocks?

      It's like you analogy is both wrong and stupid.

      Just to be clear: Your analogy is both wrong and stupid.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  7. Gameplay by Paxinum · · Score: 0

    The game was well worth the 10 euro I paid for it. Found a nice multiplayer server with a great community, lots of people are regulars where I play. The amazing thing is to see all the new creations since last visit: Minecraft sort of have the same charm as Lego, I mean there is no ultimate goal in Lego, you just build stuff. The world of minecraft is complex enough to be Turing complete.

    1. Re:Gameplay by grimJester · · Score: 1

      The world of minecraft is complex enough to be Turing complete.

      Prove it. No, really, that would be pretty interesting :)

    2. Re:Gameplay by shawb · · Score: 1

      Plaxinum is actually an AI built within Minecraft. Doesn't prove Turing Completeness, but hey... good enough for me.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    3. Re:Gameplay by Orne · · Score: 2

      There is a mineral called redstone in the game that can be placed like circuitry, albeit with a 15-block activation distance. Redstone torches act like NOT gates, but can be combined into more complex logic gates.

      Youtube is now littered with demos, but I think this is one of the better ones: Working 16-bit computer built inside Minecraft.

    4. Re:Gameplay by FrederikNS · · Score: 1

      There was a guy who created a working 16-bit ALU in Minecraft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGkkyKZVzug&feature=player_embedded Don't know if an ALU is Turing complete, but as he mentions he will be working on the remaining parts.

    5. Re:Gameplay by RichiH · · Score: 1

      You can make Turing machines with wires, water and lava. So it's actually Turing complete several times over :)

      If we remember basic CS, a Turing machine does not have to be efficient, it just needs to be _able_ to do everything _in theory_.

    6. Re:Gameplay by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      It has in-game NOR gates. It is already known that you can build a turing-complete machine with NOR logic. Ergo, Minecraft is Turing complete. Kind of a cheat, really, it'd be interesting to know if you could do the same using just the physics.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    7. Re:Gameplay by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      It has in-game NOR gates.

      I love short proofs. :)

      Kind of a cheat, really, it'd be interesting to know if you could do the same using just the physics.

      There are videos on Youtube from prior to the addition of Redstone (the stuff what lets you make NOR gates), that show adders and other logic implemented solely with the behavior of water and sand and regular torches. Unfortunately it's all single-use, and once the "circuit" runs once you have to set it all up again.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    8. Re:Gameplay by Bahumat · · Score: 1

      What's this plaxinum you speak of? I'm very curious.

      --
      "To pass through the jungle; silence, courtesy, ferocity, as the occasion demands." -- Kamau, "Proper Passage"
    9. Re:Gameplay by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      It has in-game NOR gates.

      Pretty much most game engines can do that. Making a mod for unreal tournament, quake, doom, team fortress 2, half life etc. to offer an in-game NOR gate is pretty trivial. Compare this to a platform like Second life, where you have in-game scripting capability that lets you build simple items like NOR gates, it's not really that impressive to me.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    10. Re:Gameplay by shawb · · Score: 1

      It's a misspelling of the name of the poster that mentioned that Minecraft is Turing complete. Cue the "How does the misspelling of the name of the poster make you feel?" posts

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    11. Re:Gameplay by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Nobody asked whether it impressed you.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    12. Re:Gameplay by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Nobody asked whether it impressed you.

      Nobody asked for your response either. How inconsiderate of you!

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  8. Minecraft is Addictive by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    I had no idea what I was getting in to when starting Minecraft. It is fun to start off knowing nothing about how the game is played, and just start building a castle or whatever.

    It is amazing how this game far outshines other games that are much more graphic intensive.

    Minecraft is your Utopia. You can do anything in Minecraft.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Minecraft is Addictive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Minecraft is Zombo com!

  9. I don't get this game by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    I'm played around with it a bit, but to me it just seems like a very limited type of Second Life minus all the social stuff, scripting, interaction, etc.
    Am I missing some unique part of the game experience that makes this better?

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    1. Re:I don't get this game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah the game is ridiculous, he's going to get some hardcore fans and that's all. it sucks

    2. Re:I don't get this game by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Nothing unique, just a different approach. You build things in Minecraft from the perspective of a small figure in the game world, and it's immediately graspable how you go about building something. It's less powerful, but the learning curve is more about the mechanics of getting into a position to place blocks than figuring out an interface. Throw in the resource-gathering and survival aspects of the game and you have quite a different play cycle. For example, if I decide to build a mine track in Minecraft, I have to consider how I'm going to gather the ores for the iron, which can be a challenge in itself, and then how to plot the track so I'm not having to carve up too many mountains, and where I'm going to take shelter at night while I do that work.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:I don't get this game by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I'm played around with it a bit, but to me it just seems like a very limited type of Second Life minus all the social stuff, scripting, interaction, etc.

      Wait a minute. Isn't lack of Second Life style interaction an advantage, not a drawback?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:I don't get this game by edremy · · Score: 1

      I'm played around with it a bit, but to me it just seems like a very limited type of Second Life minus all the social stuff, scripting, interaction, etc.

      Wait a minute. Isn't lack of Second Life style interaction an advantage, not a drawback?

      Depends- has Notch added a penis block in Minecraft yet?

      --
      "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    5. Re:I don't get this game by Vernes · · Score: 1

      Depends what you like more.
      But don't worry, minecraft has single player mode.
      You can play with yourself.

    6. Re:I don't get this game by cowscows · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say that there's less interaction necessarily in Minecraft, it's just that the interactions are simpler, but everywhere.

      In SecondLife, you can build all sorts of crazy stuff, but to make anything worthwhile requires a lot more work, and oftentimes requires third-party software. You can make just about anything that you want in terms of shapes, and you have lots of options with the scripting, but debugging the scripting, aligning textures, etc. can take a ton of time, and is beyond the skill level of many people. Compare that to minecraft where you've got just a handful of pieces to build with, and the simple mechanic of just placing them where you want them. It's a much more immediate gratification way to create things, but there's enough capability in those basic pieces to make things as complicated as working computers within the game.

      Another thing that is really cool about Minecraft is that you truly can interact with pretty much the entire world. Except for the bedrock that creates the bottom, you can destroy everything. While FPS games slowly inch forward with destructible buildings and deformable environments, in Minecraft you can dig a hole anywhere you want to, or create a mountain wherever you want. See that giant lake over there? You can fill that in if you feel like it. Compare that to Second Life, where in 99.5% of the game world you're not able to build anything, and even less of the landscape is editable for you.

      And on a slightly more technical note, I've always found Second Life frustrating because of poor performance really limiting its potential. You've got a limited amount of prims, there's lag like crazy, flying around you constantly bump into things that your client hasn't rendered yet, etc. SL has been around for years and still has a ton of those immediately noticeable problems that will probably never get fixed. While Minecraft is less ambitious in many ways, that simplicity allows it to actually work.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    7. Re:I don't get this game by jandrese · · Score: 1

      You're pretty much spot on. It's Secondlife minus the land barons, attachable penises, flying penises, monthly fee, horrible lag, and the uncanny valley.

      Ok, so people still build big penis monuments, but they're not as obnoxious. The "scripting system" (redstone) is also a lot more limited than SL's scripting system.

      But what you do get is a world that runs well and is effectively unlimited. You're not stuck choosing between paying hundreds of dollars a month, running a business, or being on some tiny worthless plot of land that prevents you from building anything more than the most primitive of objects. Also, the cave exploring can be a lot of fun and the combat system isn't a total disaster like SecondLife's.

      You just punch the tree, make your pick, gather some coal, and go. Everything you need you can collect from the environment, and building is loads more straightforward than SLs tortured primitives.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:I don't get this game by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Figuring out what you can create and then building things with your creations is fun.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:I don't get this game by derfy · · Score: 1

      I'm a /. reader. I can already play with myself.

  10. Will the world save format ever be fixed? by SwabTheDeck · · Score: 1

    Right now, Minecraft saves worlds by making a huge tree of directories that stores individual data chunks in various sub-directories. Even though the total amount of data is small (my server is only about 10 megs), any time a copy needs to be made to backup or test, it takes an eternity because there are literally over 10,000 files on the disk.

    I'm hopelessly in love with the game, but with the frequent software updates, there is also a need for frequent backups to make sure I don't lose all the work of everyone on the server.

    1. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Obviously it is pretty hacky for a game to make specific demands concerning filesystem/OS configuration(with things like Big Serious Applications it is at least expected, if annoying); but it sounds like the present save format is a problem that could be solved with a RAMdisk...

      Not the crazy-expensive hardware kind, just a software one carved out of system RAM. If an entire world-state is only 10ish MB, you could store plenty on just a small slice of any reasonably modern system's RAM, and that should take care of the speed problems. You would want to dump to disk from time to time, to avoid issues in the event of power loss; but doing a block-level dump of the entire RAMdisk to a single image file on HDD should, again, be pretty fast for smallish RAMdisks...

    2. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as one doesn't explore very far, the save size will be pretty low. Usually around 5 MB.

    3. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by JanneM · · Score: 1

      [...]any time a copy needs to be made to backup or test, it takes an eternity because there are literally over 10,000 files on the disk.

      How about using rsync? That should cut down a lot on the copy time. I haven't tried it myself, mind you; my world is still small enough that a straight copy takes very little time.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    4. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell? Shouldn't this be handled by say some kind of serializable tree map and saved as a single object? Or stored in some kind of simple database if it needs to be updated constantly. What's the mindset behind saving it as thousands of files?

    5. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So hook the game's I/O functions and create a virtual file system. It's easy, fun if you've never done something similar, and less than a day's work.

    6. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by werfu · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's how big minecraft servers run, using RAMDrive and dumping the save to a disk once in a while.

    7. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Why not tar (or zip) up the directory before you copy it? It would almost certainly be faster and it's not that hard to automate.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I use windows 7. Something went wrong with one of my sons saves. I right clicked on the directory and recovered from the previous day. whole thing took 20 seconds.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by greylion3 · · Score: 1

      I totally agree with you about the save format, wish I had mod points.
      Anyway, you must have really slow server harddisk(s), or way too little RAM, if copying a 10 meg save takes that long.
      Are you using Vista on a laptop as server?
      If you have an available (480 Mbps) USB port on the server, use a flash drive to save/keep the game on. Of course, not the smallest, slowest flash drive you can find..
      For added speed, only format some of it, like 1.5 GB out of a 2 GB drive.
      If not, at least keep it on a FAT32 filesystem, as that tends to be a bit faster than NTFS.

      Doing (I'm on Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit)
      find . -type f | wc -l
      in the World1 folder gives 7938 files.
      According to minecraft, my savegame is currently 21.4 Megs. However, doing
        du -b
      in the same folder gives 40476015 bytes, almost double that.
      (I have sailed around a lot in my world. Probably why the save is that big).

      Every directory contains one or two files, each only a few thousand bytes (1500 - 6000 bytes or so).
      Looks like Notch is doing very frequent, incremental backup of every little thing you do in the game, to minimize the amount of work lost in a crash.

      --
      Privacy begins with ..
    10. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Chyeld · · Score: 1

      Each file contains the block and entity information for a 'chunk' which is a 16x16 128 block high area.

      The file format is already a tree.

      My main single player world is currently 128 megs large, around 40,000 chunks. If you were to make that a single file, a single crash could wipe out the entire thing.

      As it stands, if a single file gets corrupted, you simply regenerate that section and keep going. It isn't that odd an idea.

    11. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      Or it sounds like a problem that could be solved with a well defined single file binary format and loading the whole thing as a memory mapped file. Each chunk has a strictly defined limit to its size already, so why not serialize them? It's gotta be a damn site more efficient than constantly opening files for every single 16x16 chunk of terrain.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    12. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a mod for that, but it broke on Beta. http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=58184

      Zipping before copying helps a little.

    13. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Oh, I explicitly acknowledged that the present situation is kind of gross; but the world is full of bad software being made to work well enough for use by means of external hacks catering to its weaknesses.

      Unless dealing with OSS you know well enough to fix without breaking, or a vendor who actually gives a fuck about you, the cost/benefit for appeasing unreasonable black-boxes is generally better than that of trying to beat them into submission directly. Makes purists cry; but it gets stuff done.

    14. Re:Will the world save format ever be fixed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are better file movers than the default windows (assuming you're running your server on such) My personal favorite is Teracopy, great for large numbers of itty bitty files

  11. Couldn't it have a different name? by Noughmad · · Score: 3, Funny

    I mean, I just read Mi*****ft, and I think "Wow, Windows is finnaly in beta, but the price is even more up?".

    --
    PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
  12. Re:god damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, don't slam Dora! Her adventure games are pretty damn amusing.

  13. 1.0_01. by jaminJay · · Score: 1

    Ssssssssssssssss...

    --
    Leela: "Is all the work done by children?" Alien: "No, not the whipping."
    1. Re:1.0_01. by Delarth799 · · Score: 1

      Thats a nice everything you have there >-D

    2. Re:1.0_01. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BOOM

  14. Too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's already minecraft cosplay. There was a cardboard creeper at Otakon.

  15. Re:god damn by JanneM · · Score: 2

    You're way behind, Mr. Mopps. Behold: http://linnnk.com/awesome-minecraft-costume

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  16. I liken it to playing with Legos by jorgeuva · · Score: 1

    To me it's like playing with cube-shaped Lego bricks in that the satisfaction comes from thinking of, planning, and building cool-looking stuff on an infinitely large green baseplate. Also like playing with Legos, sometimes you have to hunt through the pile to find that one block you need to make your tower go from cool to extra cool. And to take it a bit further, sometimes at night your little green brother who is totally annoying will come over and blow up the fishing cabin you were working on for the last 15 minutes.

    (Or to take another tack, if you liked building cars and creatures more than playing the actual game in Spore you'd probably enjoy Minecraft.)

    1. Re:I liken it to playing with Legos by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

      ...if you liked building cars and creatures more than playing the actual game in Spore you'd probably enjoy Minecraft.

      Beautifully put. There are other fun ways to play it, but you've just described the game's appealing qualities (to me) in a nutshell. If the sandbox design elements of Spore had a decent risk/reward system, it would very closely map to the Minecraft experience.

      --
      Meta will eat itself
  17. Re:god damn by Sockatume · · Score: 1

    Ah yes, Geek-Sheik, the famous fashion movement characterised by pocket protectors and an impressive scholarship of Islam.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  18. Never worked on my computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I heard great things about this game, so I tried the non-pay version before buying. Didn't work on my computer, even though supposedly it's "run everywhere" Java. So I didn't buy the alpha.

  19. Re:pre atari 2600 graphics..wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your poor sensible art loving eyes.
    Here, have some photo realistic explosions with your linear game story.
    Now stay there hypnotized while I try to grow the biggest fucking tree this minecraft server ever saw.
    And then, build a castle ontop it!

  20. Really? by RichiH · · Score: 1

    That's interesting, I didn't know. I guess that's one of the advantages of running XFS on a SSD :p

    (Yes, yes, TRIM is still not supported. I will either re-TRIM the disk manually or cycle it out if it really starts breaking)

  21. No real API yet by MrOctogon · · Score: 1

    There has been little official word on any api yet, except they want to make one. It is not included in the current beta release. The state of modding is currently decompiling the obfuscated java, making some changes, and recompiling it. kinda a hacky way to make changes.

  22. dwarf ish by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 1

    For me this game will always be just dwarf fortress fan art. The breath people are wasting on complaining about bugs for this game would be better spent chattering excitedly about the upcoming world wide real time trade and item tracking that is planned for the next DF release. Mind you minecraft works well for those without the patience or inclination for DF's vertical learning curve. For those who have climbed it however minecraft is a dim shadow cast by one of the greatest leaps (long treks?) forward in gaming history. Oh and DF is free.

    1. Re:dwarf ish by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Dwarf Fortress has a first person view?

      When I tried it, it was all top-down to me. I'm just not that interested in another nethack.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
  23. Re:pre atari 2600 graphics..wow by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 1

    As a DF/Roguelike purist I have to say you are both wrong. All this shiny bling pre atari 2600 graphics are way too shiny and pretty and detract from the pure gameplay aspect. Yes I am half joking. Only half.

  24. Re:pre atari 2600 graphics..wow by nullifi · · Score: 1

    I thought that too. Then I played it. It's very fun, it reminds me of GarrysMod (My friends and I can spend hours building things) but with more substance. There's enemies (that you didn't create) and it doesn't all die when you quit the game.

  25. why would anyone want to play this? by JustNiz · · Score: 0

    Has anyone actually played this game?
    From the videos I can find of Minecraft it just looks just like a sandbox. No actual point to doing anything. No objectives.
    It looks even more pointless than 2nd life. Is it really that bad?

    1. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by GospelHead821 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, it is "that bad" although I don't really think it's fair to judge it in that manner. It's like playing with legos, scribbling in a sketch pad, singing to oneself, or writing poetry. Just a creative outlet for its own sake. So what if it's "just like a sandbox?" Nobody criticizes children for liking to play in a sandbox. It's fun and if it weren't so messy, I'm sure some adults would continue to do it. So why not create a game that allows for some of that sandbox experience?

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    2. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      IF you need spoon fed goals and someone else to set up achievements and motivate you, then yeah it's bad.

      OTOH if you like fining new things , building new things and having a digital area to play in, then it's awesome.

      My son loves it. It was awesome watching him try to figure out how to make tracks, then a mine cart, and then figuring out how to make a powered mine cart. No one to tell him what to do, no preset goals. Just how creative he can be with the rules inside the minecraft world.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I suspect that if that poster had Lego as a kid they where all built to the instruction manual, then put back in the box and stored neatly on the shelf.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Playing it by yourself, yeah, it was pretty boring.

      Starting up a server and playing with your friends is a ton of fun though, unless they have no creativity.

      We've built a castle together. To help find it after being killed by random mobs, I've created a giant tower with a central pillar of lava.

      That was our first weekend playing it. We just added a mod for creating magic symbols that create effects.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    5. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      From the videos I can find of Minecraft it just looks just like a sandbox. No actual point to doing anything. No objectives.

      Those were my thoughts before I actually watched a video of someone playing it.

      In reality, it's about survival in a world where monsters come out at night. The sandbox mode is pretty boring to me, but if you start playing singleplayer survival mode, it gets much more interesting. Check out this, for example.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    6. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      I suspect that if that poster had Lego as a kid they where all built to the instruction manual, then put back in the box and stored neatly on the shelf.

      Not so bad. I knew a kid who would do that, but with the added step of disassembling methodically and reassembling it using glue to make it permanent. So not only did he not play with the kit any, no one else got to either.:\ Shoulda just upgraded to ships in bottles.

    7. Re:why would anyone want to play this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A sandbox with zombies and skeletons, where you can explore deep caverns, fighting off monsters with your sword and armor, mining up diamonds deep in the core, and barely getting home alive.

      Minecarts, WORKING wiring systems, etc....I've probably gotten more out of my minecraft alpha purchase than any other game I've bought in recent years.

  26. Gaming Idea by glittermage · · Score: 1

    I've had a roughly similar idea for a game that keeps resurfacing last 15 years. With cloud computing catching & technology advances I might actually learn programming to build my game.

    Minecraft is the closest game I know of that is about building blocks and huge worlds where players move around and change things. That is the foundation for my game & things differ much from there.

    I bought four copies of Alpha & my in-laws bought 3 copies in Alpha & host a server for us.

    It's fun now & we are all excited about future updates. The money was well spent.

    1. Re:Gaming Idea by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Many people have ideas, just very few get around to implementing it. It's the implementation that is hard.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  27. Re:god damn by AlamedaStone · · Score: 1

    Ah yes, Geek-Sheik, the famous fashion movement characterised by pocket protectors and an impressive scholarship of Islam.

    THANK you. Chic, GP. The word is chic.

    --
    "All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
  28. it's worth it by argStyopa · · Score: 2

    Minecraft is one of those little homebrew projects that has taken on a life of its own.
    Really - it's simple without being simplistic, and allows people fantastic expression of their creativity.

    It's totally worth paying for, and supporting this programmer.

    The next obvious step would be a more robust permanent world capability, along with the ability to lock ones' creations from the deliberate vandalism and destruction of others.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:it's worth it by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      I've actually thought about the vandalism problem myself. I haven't played on a multiplayer server but I never understood what the purpose of security doors, etc. was if one could just break out a shovel or pickaxe and circumvent them. Do multiplayer servers have rules of etiquette that state that if somebody else has built a security door, you respect it?

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    2. Re:it's worth it by cowscows · · Score: 1

      Many servers do have a general etiquette, but griefing is certainly common. There are mods out there that provide ways to protect areas/structures/chests and even to disallow access to sections of the world. It's currently still very limited though, it's basically a command line interface to set it all up, and there aren't any visual effects that let you know an area is protected. You just all of a sudden hit an invisible wall, or a block that you destroyed regenerates and gives you a protected message, etc.

      Hopefully stuff like this will either be incorporated directly into the game in better ways, or the promised modding support will allow the mod makers to improve their work.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:it's worth it by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      Having played it and seen the full grind. There is no goal to the game which is to be expected of a sandbox game, but there isn't much depth either. $15 was too much to ask for an alpha and if he's increased costs even more, it's not worth it.

      This should be $5 TOPS. For it's popularity, the developer is making more than enough at the bank with that rate. For what it is, it should be an open source donation funded project, let people who think it's worth more, pay what they think it's worth.

  29. Re:god damn by glittermage · · Score: 1

    Goes to show that a lot of people like having a huge sandbox and tools to play with it & willing to pay for it.

  30. Obligatory Penny Arcade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  31. Minecraft is very clever by Sedated2000 · · Score: 1

    I bought this game in Alpha stage because I saw videos of what people were doing with it on Youtube. The fact that this is a game which allows for so much creativity is what drew me to it. A kid who made a fully functional computer _inside_ the game is exactly why it's so appealing. I love the blocky graphics and the ethereal music. The generated worlds are full of surprises and interesting little crevices and caves to explore. My only complaint is that the game is written in Java. I understand why it was, but my true dream would be to have a version written in C maybe, in a tight little EXE. If they could do with Minecraft what was done with Kkrieger, I would be excited beyond measure. Because of what this game is, there is no reason I know of why it needs to hog resources and load up a huge Java environment. Kkrieger was done years ago, even.

  32. Re:pre atari 2600 graphics..wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You've never actually seen an Atari machine, have you?

  33. Notch should hire a real programmer by QuantumG · · Score: 2

    He apparently has *millions* of dollars now.. why not hire a team of decent C programmers and convert the game? I imagine you could get it running on mobile platforms damn fast shortly afterwards and make even more money.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Notch should hire a real programmer by Faylone · · Score: 1

      He just hired a team a few weeks ago.

  34. jus take a look by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sound s great
    www.partinchina.com

  35. This is stupid by luk3Z · · Score: 0

    BTW who play this sh.i.t ?

    --
    Recipes for USA bankrupt - http://tinypaste.com/0d66f dd = dollar deluge (printed in the infinity)
  36. Or use it as a game mechanic...? by tygerstripes · · Score: 1

    I forget where I saw it now, but I saw mention of Mojang considering the creation of a new team-based multiplayer mode that made use of security systems, griefing etc. in a similar fashion to the SourceForts HL2 mod (a truly excellent pre-TF2 mod that's sadly fallen by the wayside)

    The idea was for teams to build fortresses and attempt to raid their opponents' using all their ingenuity, setting traps and pitfalls for each other while defending their bases as best they could. There wasn't any more detail than that, but I thought the notion sounded exceptionally fun, and would not require any hacks to the core game mechanic (possibly slightly more prolific mineral distribution, allowing for quicker building of steel defences/doors, circuits, TNT, diamond tools etc.) Distinct build/attack phases could be enforced (again similar to SourcForts) using the inherent day/night cycle to great advantage and enhancing the Survival-mode's need to be in-tune with daylight.

    A distinct advantage over other team-based deathmatches would be the ease with which you could host 3 or more teams without worrying about uniquely tailored maps. The exact objective is maybe not clear, but I would think that CTF would work best (flag would have to be below sea-level to prevent unassailable sky-towers). I've seen Youtube clips of people building TNT-powered "cannons," hidden underwater bases and ingenious traps and escape mechanisms, which suggests to me that this niche is aching to be filled (fnarr.)

    There are already unofficial game-modes being played - SPLEEF being a prime example - but there is real potential demand for unique, dedicated game modes, once Notch's new team is up to speed.

    --
    Meta will eat itself
  37. You are wrong. by Tei · · Score: 1

    You obviusly don't understand the point of technology, and Notch obviusly "get it".

    Technology is at the service of awesomness, to make awesome things. Is not important if the netcode is awnfull, but what Notch did with it.

    Also, you don't get what type of programmer seems Notch, he is a "jam creator", he create prototypes, original code very fast. This is important, because normally code is soo expensive and slow to crate, that by the time you have a idea implemented, everyone is already bored of the idea. He make real dreams while you are still sleeping.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!