Apple May Remove the Home Button On the Next IPad

Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 01:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

Great feature for those with missing fingers!

Okay okay so I'm just being awkward. But seriously, whenever I've used an iPad or iPhone, I've wished it had the Android "back" button. So much more convenient than hunting for application specific menus to get back to where you were.

--
which is totally what she said

Re:Fun for people by Joce640k · 2011-01-13 02:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

What about people who never heard of "five finger pinch"? Are they supposed to read a manual before they can use it?
Seriously, I can't see this 'rumor' being true. Most likely it's just some viral marketing crap to get horrified Apple fans posting the word "iPad" all over the Internet the week before it launches.

--
No sig today...
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:26 · Score: 1

> Are they supposed to read a manual before they can use it?
I was asked to control a friend's iPod once, and I can assure you that I did not find the control wheel anyway intuitive. Eventually, somehow, I found some music tracks to play but it was neither logical nor repeatable.
So referring to a manual to understand an Apple UI is nothing new.
Re:Fun for people by AvitarX · 2011-01-13 02:26 · Score: 2

I would be pretty upset if I couldn't use my phone with one hand.
I don't own an iPhone, so it may be better without home button, but I use it quite a lot on my android phone (long hold to change apps).
And would hate to need to hands to copy text out of an email into a search box, or a name from an email into a contact.
or to simply tap out a text and then call someone while web-browsing.

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Re:Fun for people by WrongSizeGlass · 2011-01-13 02:29 · Score: 2

Those of us with arthritis will be thrilled that we'll need to pass the iHandExercises test before we can buy a device without a Home button.

Let's not forget that the Home button is used with the Power button to take screen shots. It's also used to access the iPod feature when the iDevice is locked (double-push the Home button and you get the quick iPod controls).
Re:Fun for people by Ephemeriis · 2011-01-13 02:55 · Score: 2

I would be pretty upset if I couldn't use my phone with one hand.
I don't own an iPhone, so it may be better without home button, but I use it quite a lot on my android phone (long hold to change apps).
And would hate to need to hands to copy text out of an email into a search box, or a name from an email into a contact.
or to simply tap out a text and then call someone while web-browsing.
Exactly.
This might work well on an iPad... But I can't see it happening on the iPhone.
You have to be able to use a cell phone one-handed.
I routinely place calls, look up contacts, check my calendar, and check my email one-handed (on an Android phone). It's a little slower, it's a little more cumbersome... But you need to be able to do it. I don't always have two hands free. And I sure as hell can't manage a multitouch gesture one-handed.

--
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:13 · Score: 0

This is actually a good point. I've been working in the fabrication industry for the past decade and seven years ago an accident cost me two of my fingers. I can still work, still type and everything else with what I have. Really one of the main reasons I haven't bought an iPhone yet is because it's not on the Verizon network. It looks like I now have a second reason more damning reason. I literally wont be able to use it.
Seriously, what's the point?
Re:Fun for people by Vectormatic · 2011-01-13 03:14 · Score: 1

yup, although i have no trouble with my ipod touch, there are some tricks you have to learn to fully control an apple device
never mind how cumbersome i find OS X, i never used it for more then five minutes at a time, and most stuff is very cumbersome/counterintuitive somehow

--
People, what a bunch of bastards
Re:Fun for people by MrLogic17 · 2011-01-13 03:16 · Score: 1

Ever see a lady with long fingernails use a touch screen? (The sound is deafing with all the clacking).
Now envision a long fingernail 5-finger gesture. Fail.
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:22 · Score: 1

So spinning around the wheel to go up and down and clicking the center button to select wasn't intuitive or repeatable? This is quite possibly the most simple interface designed for any mobile device. Did you have to read the manual to figure out how to change channels on a television? What about doors that don't provide a manual for their handle since you have to turn the handle clockwise or counter-clockwise to make it go in or out which is not intuitive in any way?
Re:Fun for people by beh · 2011-01-13 03:23 · Score: 1

How about a first-post button?
The lack of which - obviously - made my post show up this late...
Re:Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 03:31 · Score: 1

Verizon are either already doing the iPhone, or will be doing it very soon btw. Also, this story just seems to be about iPads, so you may still be okay with an iPhone if you really want one. There's so much more flexibility with Android though that you're more likely to get a device tailored to your preferences.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:40 · Score: 0

1. Shouldn't the home "button" a software feature, rather than a piece of hardware? 2. Doesn't the iPad have a Power button which could be used for the other purposes (hard reset, etc)?
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 04:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

So spinning around the wheel to go up and down
Okay, see that right there? There's your first problem. "Around" somehow translates to "up"? "Around the other way" is "down"? That's not intuitive. Maybe if the iPod interface displayed everything actually in a wheel form it would be, but when something is arranged top-to-bottom, the intuitive way to do it is up and down buttons, or some other motion that implies an up/down motion, not rotation. Except, well, the iPod's wheel DOES "click" like buttons should in the up/down positions, but they don't do what the user expects them to do.
The definition of "intuitive" is not "the way Apple does things", and "the way Apple does things" is not, by default, "intuitive". If something is intuitive, it should NOT require the user to completely rethink or relearn how they do things or how certain actions relate to certain motions. Just because you forced yourself to get used to it for the shiny factor doesn't mean it's good, just because it's different doesn't mean it's clever, and just because Apple told you to do it doesn't mean it's intuitive.
Re:Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 04:24 · Score: 1

It's a little slower, it's a little more cumbersome... But you need to be able to do it
Need is such a strong word. In what situation do you really need one handed usage? When you only possess one hand of course, and when chaperoning a kid perhaps.. but as someone who doesn't have to deal with either of those, I've never absolutely needed to use my phone with one hand. I generally prefer to use two. I don't make and receive many calls though, and if I did I could get a hands free kit and use voice dialling, so I could basically go no-handed there.
I genuinely would like to hear what cases people have that they must only use one hand, as I can't really think of any (driving doesn't count for me, it's illegal to use a phone while driving in the UK).

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Fun for people by silverglade00 · 2011-01-13 04:41 · Score: 1

Now envision a long fingernail 5-finger gesture.
That made my ears itch deep inside.
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 04:51 · Score: 0

This is a good point. Another point, how many folks have toddlers playing with iphones and ipads. My 2 year old can navigate my iphone and hit that button to get back to the icons. But I can guarantee you she can't do a multitouch yet.
Re:Fun for people by Bobfrankly1 · 2011-01-13 05:00 · Score: 1

Those of us with arthritis will be thrilled that we'll need to pass the iHandExercises test before we can buy a device without a Home button. Let's not forget that the Home button is used with the Power button to take screen shots. It's also used to access the iPod feature when the iDevice is locked (double-push the Home button and you get the quick iPod controls).
The home button is also great for when an app locks up, but the OS doesn't realize it. I wonder if the touch input will bring them back to the home screen in such an instance.
Re:Fun for people by tlhIngan · 2011-01-13 05:20 · Score: 1

Okay okay so I'm just being awkward. But seriously, whenever I've used an iPad or iPhone, I've wished it had the Android "back" button. So much more convenient than hunting for application specific menus to get back to where you were.
Ironically, I've forgotten that in Android the "menu" and "back" keys are necessary. I've been so used to iOS that I expect items in the menu to be shown somewhere on the screen, and the back is the left-pointing pentagon at the top. Both make sense in their own way - having it onscreen is more discoverable, having it as a button means you save precious screen real estate.
It can be frustrating when using both devices because of it...
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:30 · Score: 0

As someone with only one arm, I need one handed usage all the time you insensitive clod.
Re:Fun for people by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · 2011-01-13 05:40 · Score: 1

I don't think you are just being awkward. What about people with arthritis (and there are a lot of them)? A simple button is much friendlier than a multi finger gesture.

--
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
Re:Fun for people by mobby_6kl · 2011-01-13 05:58 · Score: 2

How about if you're carrying a briefcase, laptop bag, or groceries in one hand? Or if you're holding another phone to your ear and need to look something up on the smartphone. Or (if you're poor I guess) when you're holding on to the handrail in a bus? Even Android is pretty bad at this compared to my WM phone, anything worse than that would be unacceptable for me, and I only have to use public transport a handful of times per year.
Of course it all depends on how anal you are about defining "need". You don't actually need to own a mobile phone either, once you get down to it.
Re:Fun for people by StikyPad · 2011-01-13 06:00 · Score: 1

Warning: Side effects of the five finger pinch may include jail time.

--
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Re:Fun for people by AvitarX · 2011-01-13 06:05 · Score: 1

Maybe you never carry things by the handle while using your phone, but I do some, and 1-handed operation is why I wanted an on-screen keyboard (much easier to type one-handed on).
I personally tap out 1-5 word messages at red-lights sometimes, but I also go a little over the speed limit sometimes too, and in my area they are similarly weighted crimes, so I am not too worried about it).
I agree to a point that it is only a convenience thing, but it is a convenience thing that is big to me. I purchased a G1 specifically because I
"needed" a physical keyboard, and withing 2 weeks of the update to android 1.6 I had essentially stopped using the physical keyboard (exceptions SSH (non-words, punctuation), VNC (in landscape mode usually))
one-handed phone operation is a great convenience. On the iPad I imagine not so much, as it it too big to hold and type with one hand.

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 06:13 · Score: 0

What about people who never heard of "five finger pinch"? Are they supposed to read a manual before they can use it?
Meh. Just rename it the "breast grab" and within a month everyone will know what it is without reading a manual.
Re:Fun for people by metamatic · 2011-01-13 06:32 · Score: 1

What kills me with iOS is when apps go fullscreen, and I can't work out how the hell to get them to go back.

--
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Re:Fun for people by EvilIdler · 2011-01-13 06:45 · Score: 1

My dad has reduced mobility in several fingers due to a knife injury (shoulda seen the fish!). He simply can't do the 4+ finger gestures with his active hand. Yes, even the four-finger swipe to switch tasks is tricky, due to the bad fingers being permanently curled up. Attempts at making him switch hand for Guitar Hero/Rock Band have not been successful, so I doubt he could switch hands for an iPad. Losing the functionality of the Home button would be a bad thing - hopefully it will be on some button somehow. Or at least a simple button in the UI to list tasks and all that should be available.
Re:Fun for people by s73v3r · 2011-01-13 06:45 · Score: 4, Informative

Okay, see that right there? There's your first problem. "Around" somehow translates to "up"? "Around the other way" is "down"? That's not intuitive.

Ever used a volume knob before?
Re:Fun for people by amRadioHed · 2011-01-13 06:46 · Score: 1

How are hardware buttons less discoverable then buttons on the screen? Seems to me hardware buttons are at least as discoverable as buttons on screen, if not more so.
That said, Android is moving away from hardware buttons too. They will be replaced with standard software buttons controlled by the system.

--
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Re:Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 06:51 · Score: 1

Well, with shopping bags I just flip the handles up around my wrists or whatever if I want to use my phone.
I used to use a briefcase but now I have a rucksack, so my hands are free most of the time. If you're carrying a briefcase that doesn't have a shoulder strap then the one handed convenience would indeed start to get pretty important.
Likewise I used to think I'd hate an onscreen keyboard, but I'm pretty happy with it on my Dell Streak. Then again if it was on a device with anything smaller than a 4" screen I think it would start to become very awkward.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 06:59 · Score: 0

> Great feature for those with missing fingers!
I dont havb ANY fimgers, you insenstve clod! I type with mu nose..
Re:Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 07:07 · Score: 1

I have workarounds for all of those, apart from the bus thing, so if you use busy public transport a lot then it could become a "need" I guess.
I can imagine someone with major health problems or disabilities might really need a mobile phone in case of emergency, but indeed most people could get by without if they wanted.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Fun for people by somersault · 2011-01-13 07:16 · Score: 1

I wouldn't lose hope for the iPad/touch thing. Using your other hand for a mouse or to point with your fingers isn't as difficult as playing lefty in Guitar Hero.
Yes, I've tried both :p In fact I broke my left wrist as a kid so I found out about trying to use your opposite hand for basically everything, and I tried switching around on Guitar Hero just for fun a couple of years ago, it's surprising how well your brain translates to the opposite side. I found I could use all 5 buttons pretty much immediately, whereas it took me weeks to get to grips with all 5 in normal orientation, despite being able to play guitar for real.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Fun for people by FrankWhite_KingOfNJ · 2011-01-13 08:00 · Score: 1

they should do use the backswipe gesture like Palm has been doing for a few years now. It's built in to WebOS and works fantastic.
Re:Fun for people by AvitarX · 2011-01-13 08:31 · Score: 1

I'm willing to bet the Dell streak would be two handed for me too. Even the G2 is on the big side of one handed use (slightly larger bezel, slightly thicker, and 30% heavier).
Which is probably where the differing opinion comes from.

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Re:Fun for people by ne0n · 2011-01-13 09:37 · Score: 1

So true.. I recently dusted off an old iPhone and tried to use it for a day (nostalgia :) but went back to my SGS largely because of the missing buttons. The bigger, far superior screen didn't hurt either. Buttons are 24x better than soft-buttons or clumsy multi-touch gestures for such a tiny screen.

--
$ :(){ :|:& };:
Re:Fun for people by green1 · 2011-01-13 11:50 · Score: 1

the first 2 problems I had on picking up an ipod for the first time were discovering that despite the labels on the 4 points of the circle on the front of the device, the circle itself was a control as well, a completely unlabelled one.
Worse yet, the area in the middle of it, again completely blank, was a button.
That's not intuitive in any way.
At least with the iphone/ipad you assume that the 1 button does something useful.
As a technician who is constantly in people's houses trying to connect whatever "gadget du-jour" to their new wifi internet connection, I want to be able to pick up any device made by any company, and fumble my way through the settings to get it hooked up. Weird gestures, unlabelled buttons, and other tricks that you have to know before using a device make this difficult. Maybe using an ipod is FAMILIAR to you. But it is a long way from intuitive.
Re:Fun for people by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 12:17 · Score: 0

Nope. Tv uses up and down, car stereo controls use Up and down on the steering wheel and I play all music through my PC or MP3 players using either up/down controls or a wheel.
Of course I know what one is, but I'm sure there are people who haven't used one.
Re:Fun for people by jrumney · 2011-01-13 12:46 · Score: 1

In a lot of apps, the only obvious way to go back used to be to press the Home button and restart the application. Now that the iPad has multitasking, the apps just come up in the state you left them.
Re:Fun for people by monkyyy · 2011-01-13 14:07 · Score: 0

never on a portable, and knobs stick out, the wheel is nonsense and only made it look better

--
warning pointless sig
Re:Fun for people by monkyyy · 2011-01-13 14:12 · Score: 0

"think differently"
there inter platform revoles around making it awkward so u feel better once you caught on; and by better i mean elitism till everyone follows

--
warning pointless sig
Re:Fun for people by Thing+1 · 2011-01-13 16:29 · Score: 1

If something is intuitive, it should NOT require the user to completely rethink
LOL think different. ly.

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

Home button will stay by tekgoblin · 2011-01-13 01:56 · Score: 4, Informative

I do not think that Apple will remove a signature button from their iOS device lineup. The button also serves other uses such as a DRM or Hard reset on the device as well as other diagnostic functions besides just returning to the home screen.

--
TekGoblin

Re:Home button will stay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:03 · Score: 0

If Apple does remove the home button, I expect diagnostic functions could be move to the power button and sound rocker.
I think the new iPod nano works that way.
Re:Home button will stay by tekgoblin · 2011-01-13 02:08 · Score: 1

That is possible it just seems awkward that they would make that move and confuse their user base.

--
TekGoblin
Re:Home button will stay by Deag · 2011-01-13 02:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

I always thought the home button was a good design to make the iphone easy to use for everyone.
It also would affect the usability of the device to remove it. No matter what you do on your iphone, you have one button that brings you back to the start. This makes it very easy to use.
Some multitouch gesture would be the complete opposite.
Re:Home button will stay by carou · 2011-01-13 02:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

I do not think that Apple will remove a signature button from their iOS device lineup.
I never thought they'd ditch the iconic "scroll wheel" which had been a signature design feature since the very first iPod...
Re:Home button will stay by initialE · 2011-01-13 02:13 · Score: 1

the button also breaks easily though, it's one of the first parts of an iphone to go. I know of people who jailbreak their phones to use an alternative to the button.

--
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
Re:Home button will stay by tekgoblin · 2011-01-13 02:13 · Score: 1

I do not think that Apple will remove a signature button from their iOS device lineup.
I never thought they'd ditch the iconic "scroll wheel" which had been a signature design feature since the very first iPod...
touche

--
TekGoblin
Re:Home button will stay by jeffmeden · 2011-01-13 02:22 · Score: 1

I never thought they'd ditch the monochrome screen and spinning platter storage, two REAL signatures of their design savvy...
Re:Home button will stay by jedidiah · 2011-01-13 02:26 · Score: 1

Neither of those had anything to do with "design".

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Home button will stay by tverbeek · 2011-01-13 02:30 · Score: 1

Replacing a simple method for an often-used feature (push home button), with a complex method (move X fingers in pattern A), would be Just Plain Bad interface design. I hope that Apple UI folks realize that. It's bad enough that the "home" button has already lost some of its simplicity (originally it always took you to the same familiar place with a single click no matter where you were; now it takes a varying number of successive clicks to get back to the "home" screen, depending on whether you're in a app group, whether that's on the first screen of apps or not, etc). But requiring a repeated multifinger gesture to get "home" would be a huge step backward in usability.

--
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Re:Home button will stay by tverbeek · 2011-01-13 02:38 · Score: 1

the button also breaks easily though, it's one of the first parts of an iphone to go.
If true, it wouldn't be very difficult to just make a sturdier button.

I know of people who jailbreak their phones to use an alternative to the button.
I don't think that the preferences of a few ubergeeks are representative of the population at large.

--
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Re:Home button will stay by Lumpy · 2011-01-13 02:51 · Score: 1

The button serves as DRM... really.
I'd love to see how you think that a button serves as DRM.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Home button will stay by jgagnon · 2011-01-13 02:59 · Score: 2

It's the "Doesn't Really Matter" button. Duh!

--
Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
Re:Home button will stay by ccoder · 2011-01-13 03:28 · Score: 2

What about removing DFU mode, which is the current way a lot of untethered jailbreaks work? Making it harder for unlockers/jailbreakers isn't outside of what Jobs and company would do.

--
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" -- George Orwell
Re:Home button will stay by 0100010001010011 · 2011-01-13 03:33 · Score: 1

Disaster Recovery Manager?
Xorg uses DRM all the time for Direct Rendering Manager.
Re:Home button will stay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:34 · Score: 0

I do not think that Apple will remove a signature button from their iOS device lineup. The button also serves other uses such as a DRM or Hard reset on the device as well as other diagnostic functions besides just returning to the home screen.
Indeed. Where is the clickwheel on the iPad Touch, or iPad Mini btw? Oh, they removed it...
Re:Home button will stay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 04:41 · Score: 0

If Apple does remove the home button, I expect diagnostic functions could be move to the power button and sound rocker.
I think the new iPod nano works that way.
Yeah, but, see, those are buttons. As we all know, Steve Jobs has had an irrational fear of buttons ever since a rogue button broke free from its panel and killed his mother by pressing her to death, and, swearing revenge, he sought to eliminate all buttons everywhere, no matter the cost. This is why all Apple products have crude mockeries of buttons in their touchscreen interfaces, and why you can still sometimes hear Jobs giggling to himself whenever he uses his iPhone, mockingly asking the virtual buttons if they can ever escape their digital prison NOW.
Re:Home button will stay by Brannoncyll · 2011-01-13 06:18 · Score: 1

In my experience with Apple products (iPod, iPhone, Macbook pro), they seem to enjoy changing things around to make their software more inaccessible to a new user. Just yesterday I was programming in emacs (VM ubuntu running on Mac OS) on my work Macbook and somehow managed to enable text overwrite. Apparently Apple saw fit to remove the insert key, so I spent half an hour on google trying to find the arcane series of keystrokes required to turn it off again. There are hundreds of sites spewing many different combinations of key presses (some also suggested using the preferences menu of MS Word ffs), none of which worked. Eventually I just looked up the lua command. My other pet peeves include the absence of the home and end keys, the delete key (not backspace) and the repositioning of the backslash character.
Re:Home button will stay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 06:37 · Score: 0

Well, yeah, but A) I think it's a HUGE mistake to eliminate the tactile feedback, and B) common sense prevailed for the Shuffle. I think the same will happen with the new nano.
Re:Home button will stay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 06:41 · Score: 0

You can blame Apple for a lot of keyboard antics, but "repositioning of the backslash key" does not make that list. If anything, Apple is on the bastions defending a stable place for that key. You might not like that place, but it's been the same on their keyboards -- even on laptops -- since 1984.
Re:Home button will stay by Combatso · 2011-01-13 06:43 · Score: 1

i spelled 'touch' and yah, it doesnt have a wheel
Re:Home button will stay by metamatic · 2011-01-13 06:47 · Score: 1

You may want to consider buying a full Apple keyboard that has Home, End and Delete. Laptops always sacrifice keys to squeeze the keyboard into the available space. I can't say that I've used the Insert key in years. It doesn't do anything in current versions of Windows, doesn't work in the Linux shell.. I think the only program I use where it does anything is Eclipse, and I've never found it useful there. It looks as if it's increasingly being dropped on new keyboards, in favor of other keys.

--
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Re:Home button will stay by metamatic · 2011-01-13 06:49 · Score: 1

I thought they were crazy ditching the scroll wheel and four touch buttons. That's still my favorite iPod.

--
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Re:Home button will stay by catmistake · 2011-01-13 07:05 · Score: 1

the ones I've seen put the device into DFU for you, no button pressing necessary

--
The Admin and the Engineer
Re:Home button will stay by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-01-13 07:37 · Score: 1

I'd love to see how you think that a button serves as DRM.
Perhaps what he was trying to say is that a hard button functions as a control the interface can't spoof. Which may be useful for some DRM schemes - it is for some security protocols, and DRM is just security used for nefarious purposes.
It's a stretch to jump to this conclusion straight out of the gate, though.

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:Home button will stay by $0.02 · 2011-01-13 11:24 · Score: 1

What about replacing it with shaking the phone?

--
If enithin kan gow rong it whil. (Murfey)
Re:Home button will stay by initialE · 2011-01-13 12:06 · Score: 1

What I meant was that it was not a personal preference, unless you consider it a personal preference not to bring in your phone for repair. Without jailbreaking, an iPhone without a home button is unusable.

--
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
Re:Home button will stay by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 12:41 · Score: 1

I always thought the home button was a good design to make the iphone easy to use for everyone.
It also would affect the usability of the device to remove it. No matter what you do on your iphone, you have one button that brings you back to the start. This makes it very easy to use.
Some multitouch gesture would be the complete opposite.
Not to mention when your shit's not working and some application has gobbled up the input and you need a different means of preemption.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:Home button will stay by exomondo · 2011-01-13 13:22 · Score: 1

if you're on any kind of moving transport and you hit a bump everyone's iphone goes back to the homescreen.

There's no place like home... by digitaldc · 2011-01-13 01:59 · Score: 2

...but five fingers will work when you are in a pinch. (iPinch?)

--
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson

Obvious play? by emocomputerjock · 2011-01-13 02:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

Is this because you can't patent a button but can patent multitouch gestures? Get enough people speaking your "language" and other manufacturers will have to pay to use your patented gestures.

Re:Obvious play? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 07:42 · Score: 0

That, and the iButton add-on hardware pack that will be available in all Apple stores for $14.99

What if you crash? by Drakkenmensch · 2011-01-13 02:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not all apps are as stable as you'd like. You need something to press to exit to your home screen if your app decides it just wants to freeze...

Re:What if you crash? by tekgoblin · 2011-01-13 02:10 · Score: 1

Never thought of that, With the new gesture being system wide it may offer the same escape from a frozen app just like the button. However how does this work when you are zooming out of a map on Google earth? Will it close the app?

--
TekGoblin
Re:What if you crash? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:11 · Score: 0

These gestures are recognized by the OS, not by the currently active app. If the app becomes unresponsive, the OS is still running. Just like on the Mac, I can drag windows around even for applications that are unresponsive.
Re:What if you crash? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:14 · Score: 0

"Not all apps are as stable as you'd like. You need something to press to exit to your home screen if your app decides it just wants to freeze..."
If the OS allows an app to freeze the device it's an OS bug.
Re:What if you crash? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:16 · Score: 3, Funny

Then you reboot with the five finger death punch
Re:What if you crash? by beelsebob · 2011-01-13 02:25 · Score: 2

Luckily, the OS is in charge of handling events, and only hands them to apps if necessary. If it captures a 5 finger goatse gesture, it needn't pass it through at all, just switch apps straight away. In the same way as your app never gets told about alt-tab, and it always works whether the app has crashed or not.
Re:What if you crash? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:56 · Score: 0

/sarcasm What are you talking about? Apple products never and software crash!
Re:What if you crash? by BasilBrush · 2011-01-13 03:08 · Score: 1

Zooming out is a two finger pinch. Going home is a 4 or 5 finger pinch.
Re:What if you crash? by jdoverholt · 2011-01-13 03:34 · Score: 1

It is impressive to watch being played. An old roommate of mine used to practice it incessantly.
Re:What if you crash? by jdoverholt · 2011-01-13 03:35 · Score: 1

If it captures a 5 finger goatse gesture...
Great. Thanks for that.
Re:What if you crash? by drinkypoo · 2011-01-13 03:44 · Score: 1

It seems like you could do this correctly by installing a sub-processor which did nothing but interpret gestures so the main CPU didn't have to. Without it, I imagine you will run into just the problem you have imagined.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:What if you crash? by w_dragon · 2011-01-13 03:49 · Score: 1

Actually your app can register to hear alt-tab (assuming we're talking Windows here). And ctrl-alt-del, and pretty much any other keyboard button the OS handles. It also gets first dibs on deciding what the response is. Most apps don't bother, so the OS deals with it, but you can block pretty much every normal windows keyboard shortcut. Games do it quite often to keep you from interrupting them by accident because you happened to hit the windows button, or alt-tab, or held down shift for 5 seconds, etc.
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-13 06:51 · Score: 1

Actually your app can register to hear alt-tab (assuming we're talking Windows here). And ctrl-alt-del
A Windows app cannot register to handle Ctrl+Alt+Del. That's the whole point of requiring it at logon screen in a secure environment - this is so that the user can ensure that what he is seeing is the actual OS logon screen, and not malware that mimics such to steal passwords. It's also why RDP clients and virtual machines such as VMWare have to provide a special and distinct shortcut for "Ctrl+Alt+Del in the guest".
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-13 06:54 · Score: 1

What does this have to do with CPU at all? iOS is not cooperative multitasking, so the OS always has full control of things regardless of how an app might misbehave. E.g. the OS can choose to handle certain gestures itself, and not pass them onto the app.
Re:What if you crash? by DWIM · 2011-01-13 10:18 · Score: 1

Not all apps are as stable as you'd like. You need something to press to exit to your home screen if your app decides it just wants to freeze...
Not a problem! Just pop the battery... oh wait...
Re:What if you crash? by green1 · 2011-01-13 12:01 · Score: 1

A Windows app cannot register to handle Ctrl+Alt+Del.
While true when Windows NT first added that feature many years ago, it hasn't been true for well over a decade (in fact I seem to remember reading that people had found ways to do that within weeks of MS adding that feature), somehow though MS kept the ctrl-alt-del long after it stopped working as a security feature.
You can trap ANY key combination on a PC to do anything you want, Windows won't (effectively) stop you.
Re:What if you crash? by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 12:48 · Score: 1

Zooming out is a two finger pinch. Going home is a 4 or 5 finger pinch.
Putting the device to sleep will be a 7 finger pinch.
Turning the volume up will be ten fingers slowly rotating to the right, volume down will be left.
Orientation lock will be 20 fingers tapping the display all at once, until it's changed in favor of mute.
Going into DFU or restore mode will require you to call over six of your friends to play a game of twister with your hands in a thoughtfully planned series of motions to avoid accidental activation. Apple will not be held liable to the damage of your hands or iDevice.
A hard reboot will require shipping your iDevice to Apple for maintenance.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:What if you crash? by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 12:53 · Score: 1

A Windows app cannot register to handle Ctrl+Alt+Del.
While true when Windows NT first added that feature many years ago, it hasn't been true for well over a decade (in fact I seem to remember reading that people had found ways to do that within weeks of MS adding that feature), somehow though MS kept the ctrl-alt-del long after it stopped working as a security feature.
You can trap ANY key combination on a PC to do anything you want, Windows won't (effectively) stop you.
I wonder if it's the same for Microsoft Sudo

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:What if you crash? by gstoddart · 2011-01-13 13:55 · Score: 1

Not all apps are as stable as you'd like. You need something to press to exit to your home screen if your app decides it just wants to freeze...
It is also how you do task switching ... Double click, and the tray shows running apps.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:What if you crash? by BasilBrush · 2011-01-13 17:22 · Score: 1

I don't doubt that pen users ridiculed the typewriter keyboard when it first came out. "Who can possibly cope with all those keys? Especially when they've been arranged in such a random order!" And yet it's second nature now. Many use the typewriter keyboard without even looking.
And then the classic mobile phone keyboard. "It's crazy", said the old folks, "how can you possibly input text with just 12 keys?" Yet anyone who was a kid when texting started can bang out a text in no time. Some of them without even taking the phone out of their pockets.
When the mouse came out, old folk couldn't quite coordinate mouse moves with the moves of the pointer on screen. Some couldn't work out that when you run out of desk space, you can lift and reposition the mouse to move further.
Gesture interfaces are certainly part of the future, and quickly become very natural. They have an advantage over these other input innovation examples. They are being introduced gradually. For sure in the future there will be a wide range of possible gestures you can communicate with your computer with. But that richness will build up over time. People will use them as naturally as they use a keyboard or a mouse now.
Re:What if you crash? by drinkypoo · 2011-01-13 18:00 · Score: 1

What does this have to do with CPU at all? iOS is not cooperative multitasking, so the OS always has full control of things regardless of how an app might misbehave.

hahahahahahahahahahaha
(etc)

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-13 19:51 · Score: 1

I hoped for a more informative answer to my post, if there were to be any. Can you be, er, more specific? How is iOS different to Windows, Linux, OS X, or pretty much any other modern OS in that regard?
Re:What if you crash? by Aphoxema · 2011-01-14 02:39 · Score: 1

You mention only those interfaces which were successful. What about Palm's little box you were supposed to write glyphs that poorly resembled letters? What about pinch gloves? Why did touchscreens take so long to take off?
I agree that gestures are a useful things for those who choose to use them, but a "5 finger pinch" is neither intuitive or accessible. Some people are missing fingers or have partial paralysis, some people only have one arm. These people help the typewriter and mouse succeed because they can use them.
Don't wag your "future" around, no matter how useful gestures may be they are far from a meaningful solution to anything. For many they only cause more problems, I'm just thankful that I'm not one of them.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:What if you crash? by drinkypoo · 2011-01-14 02:44 · Score: 1

Can you be, er, more specific? How is iOS different to Windows, Linux, OS X, or pretty much any other modern OS in that regard?
It isn't, which is to say, you can't count on the operating system being responsive. I've seen plenty of computers lock up to the point where the OS isn't doing anything any more, it's in an endless loop. This is why we have hardware watchdog timers. If the gesture for shutdown has to be interpreted by an OS in an endless loop then you're not going to be able to shut off your computer. In most cases a handheld computer has a recessed reset, so now you're going to be losing battery life (probably at the maximum rate) until you find a paper clip to unbend. I have no idea whatsoever if this is the case for an iPad, as I have never actually seen one. It seems the notion that everyone is buying them is grossly exaggerated as when I go to a coffeeshop or something I see rafts of netbooks and notebooks and even the occasional Kindle but no iBooks.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:What if you crash? by BasilBrush · 2011-01-14 02:52 · Score: 1

It's a 4 or 5 finger pinch, so even people with one missing finger can do it. For those even more digitally challenged, there's still the home button, just as there was before.
And if you think gestures aren't a solution to anything, then you've never had the wonderful experience of two finger scrolling on a Macbook. It's far more pleasant and quick to use than the scrollbars. But of course the scroll bars are still there for those that want them, or who don't know about the gesture.
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-14 05:52 · Score: 1

It isn't, which is to say, you can't count on the operating system being responsive.

True, but that isn't because the app can block it.

I've seen plenty of computers lock up to the point where the OS isn't doing anything any more, it's in an endless loop.
How do you know that it's an endless loop? Did you attach a debugger and have a look?
An actual endless loop is a bug in the OS. Not a by-design kind of thing that is unavoidable.

This is why we have hardware watchdog timers.
No, we have them because software (including OS) is buggy, and an external timer is a foolproof workaround for that.
But we were not talking about bugs in the OS originally. We were talking about bugs in usermode apps that could hang the OS (see the very first post in this thread). You're welcome to suggest any mechanism by which an app can achieve this in a pre-emptive multitasking OS with memory protection which does not expose hardware directly to apps (i.e. has a first bite at all inputs and outputs).

In most cases a handheld computer has a recessed reset, so now you're going to be losing battery life (probably at the maximum rate) until you find a paper clip to unbend. I have no idea whatsoever if this is the case for an iPad, as I have never actually seen one.
For iPad, you press and hold the two buttons that it has (Home and Lock/Power) together to do a hard reboot.
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-14 07:01 · Score: 1

While true when Windows NT first added that feature many years ago, it hasn't been true for well over a decade
From Wikipedia:
"Windows NT is designed so that, unless system security is already compromised in some other way, only the Winlogon process, a trusted system process, can receive notification of this keystroke combination. This is because the kernel remembers the process ID of the Winlogon process, and allows only that process to receive the notification. This keystroke combination is thus called the Secure Attention Sequence. A user pressing Control-Alt-Delete can be sure that it is the operating system (specifically the Winlogon process), rather than a third party program that is responding to the key combination, and that it is therefore safe to enter a password."
Basically, yes, if you have physical access to the box, you can always replace winlogon with your own; but at that point the system is compromised already, anyway (you could just as well put in your own kernel). I am not aware of any way to intercept the combo from a random userspace application, however. Quick googling doesn't show any hits. If you have some references for your claim, please provide them, because I'm really curious as to how something like this can be defeated (it would be kinda akin to intercepting the "magic SysRq" in Linux).
Re:What if you crash? by drinkypoo · 2011-01-14 07:47 · Score: 1

For iPad, you press and hold the two buttons that it has (Home and Lock/Power) together to do a hard reboot.
I presume someone, sometime, has had to do this?

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-14 07:55 · Score: 1

I would imagine so - I'd be extremely surprised if iOS itself would be completely bug-free.
Re:What if you crash? by green1 · 2011-01-14 16:27 · Score: 1

unless system security is already compromised in some other way
If you HADN'T "compromised security in some other way" then you wouldn't be able to put up a fake login prompt no matter what key press was required as you wouldn't be able to run any applications.
The point is that if you can already run things on the computer (often by fooling the user in to doing so themselves, but other security holes would work too), then you have enough authority to intercept ctrl-alt-del, and if you don't, well it doesn't matter what you can intercept...
Among other methods:
-MSGina.dll can be replaced with a customized GINA DLL.
-Keyboard filter driver (one example: http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/33581352/keyboard-filter-driver.aspx)
-Replacing the process manager application that you get when you press ctrl-alt-del during a normal session
-Changing the registry to point to a different application when you press ctrl-alt-del during a normal session
Further discusion: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/preventclose.aspx?msg=1666328
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-14 17:42 · Score: 1

If you HADN'T "compromised security in some other way" then you wouldn't be able to put up a fake login prompt no matter what key press was required as you wouldn't be able to run any applications.
Huh? If you're logged in as normal user, you can certainly run applications (one of which can look like a fake login prompt, and you can leave it running for the next guy who comes to use the computer), but the security is not compromised.

The point is that if you can already run things on the computer (often by fooling the user in to doing so themselves, but other security holes would work too), then you have enough authority to intercept ctrl-alt-del
So far as I can see, all your methods require administrator privileges. Normal users certainly can't replace system DLLs (no write permission on system32), cannot install drivers in the system, and won't be able to fiddle with winlogon or the dialog. Note in particular how your CodeProject link, as well as everything it links in turn, only talks about 2K/XP
If you're the administrator, then you can do anything (e.g. install a patched OS kernel which logs all passwords), so it's moot anyway. That is what I mean by "security already compromised".
Re:What if you crash? by green1 · 2011-01-16 15:26 · Score: 1

Your hypothetical situation that you say would be immune to the attack involves an unprivileged user with local access to the machine. If I have local access to leave a program running for the next person who logs on, I don't need "admin" rights. I've already got full access to the entire system simply by virtue of physical access, so it's irrelevant.
If I can con a user in to running a program I send them remotely, then I can also con them in to running it as admin, which means I can do any of the things listed in any of those articles.
In both cases I succeed.
So your assertion that ctrl-alt-del can't be trapped is either a) false, or b) true, but irrelevant.
Re:What if you crash? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-16 16:02 · Score: 1

If I have local access to leave a program running for the next person who logs on, I don't need "admin" rights. I've already got full access to the entire system simply by virtue of physical access, so it's irrelevant.
We're not necessarily talking about local access. And even in local access scenarios, there are ways to secure the box reasonably enough that this isn't an issue.

If I can con a user in to running a program I send them remotely, then I can also con them in to running it as admin, which means I can do any of the things listed in any of those articles.
That assumes that the user in question has admin privileges himself.
Of course, if you can con someone that way, you don't need to intercept CAD either. You can just have them run your trojan directly.

So your assertion that ctrl-alt-del can't be trapped is either a) false, or b) true, but irrelevant.
Actually, it's the other way around so far as I can see - your assertion that it can be trapped is false in all scenarios where it actually matters. You still haven't demonstrated a single case where trapping Ctrl+Alt+Del is possible in the circumstances where it's actually a security risk to do so.

Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by LordKronos · 2011-01-13 02:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Replacing the home button with multitouch gestures? So using the device will now require you to use both hands? Great! That should be fun when the people driving around me need to not only divert their attention to controlling their iphone/ipod touch, but now must take BOTH hands off the wheel to operate it.

Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by vivaoporto · 2011-01-13 02:27 · Score: 1

For the iPhone you have no excuse, anything you need to do while driving you can do with the headset shortcuts. Play / pause / stop / skip / go back / fast forward / rewind the music, make / finish / answer / ignore calls.

Anything else and you shouldn't be doing while driving.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by UnknowingFool · 2011-01-13 02:43 · Score: 1

It's a matter of interpretation of what Apple's intentions are with the new gestures. Some people might think that they are providing an additional but alternative way to activate the Home button. More alarmist views are "OMG. They've removed the Home Button by providing new functionality!"

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by imakemusic · 2011-01-13 02:52 · Score: 1

Multitouch means both hands? I thought it meant multiple fingers...

--
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by RossumsChild · 2011-01-13 02:53 · Score: 1

Are your fingers not capable of independent movement? Multitouch gestures on any mobile device have always meant multiple-fingers, one-hand.

Where have you been? And how the hell did you get modded up for this?
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Ephemeriis · 2011-01-13 02:57 · Score: 1

Replacing the home button with multitouch gestures? So using the device will now require you to use both hands? Great! That should be fun when the people driving around me need to not only divert their attention to controlling their iphone/ipod touch, but now must take BOTH hands off the wheel to operate it.
You don't even have to be driving...
Good luck carrying a coffee while using your phone. Or opening a door... Or writing down notes... Or fumbling for your wallet...

--
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:58 · Score: 0

More alarmist views are "OMG. They've removed the Home Button by providing new functionality!"
You might think that...unless, you know, you RTFA where it says they are already testing buttonless ipads on campus. And you can follow the link to BGR (where they got the info) that says "Our source said Apple employees are already testing iPads and iPhones with no home buttons on the Apple campus, and it’s possible we will see this new change materialize with the next-generation iPad and iPhone devices set to launch this year".
So yeah, I'm sure someone is just being alarmist and misinterpreting something that very explicitly says this is happening.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:02 · Score: 0

I don't know how you hold your phone, but I like to have fingers 2-5 under the phone and use my thumb to click.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by swillden · 2011-01-13 03:05 · Score: 1

Are your fingers not capable of independent movement? Multitouch gestures on any mobile device have always meant multiple-fingers, one-hand.
It's impossible to perform multi-touch gestures with the hand holding the phone. Multi-touch inherently requires two hands -- one to hold the phone and one to perform the gesture. Well, unless you have a convenient, stable surface on which to place the phone and don't mind taking the time to put it down, perform the gesture, and pick it up again.

--
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by BasilBrush · 2011-01-13 03:10 · Score: 1

Rumour.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by vgerclover · 2011-01-13 03:13 · Score: 1

One to hold the device, another to interact with it using all your fingers.
I regularly use my Galaxy S using only my thumb.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Cerium · 2011-01-13 03:18 · Score: 1

Well... Unless you're a telekinetic and can make your phone levitate while you perform your multitouch gesture, you'll probably need your other hand to hold the phone.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by UnknowingFool · 2011-01-13 03:21 · Score: 1

I'm just saying that it's a rather extreme interpretation from a blog reporting on a rumor on another site with unknown sources about the implications of a beta software release on the next and unreleased product. The original site said that they were testing said products on Apple campus. I didn't read a lot of certainty in that.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:22 · Score: 0

And how will you hold the phone and perform a four-finger gesture with one hand?
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:24 · Score: 0

Yes, one-hand for the multitouch gesture, but the other hand to hold the device!
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:27 · Score: 0

How are you going to do this 4 finger pinch with the hand you are using to hold the device?
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by CharlyFoxtrot · 2011-01-13 03:29 · Score: 1

Relax. It's a rumor, which in Apple related stories means it has 99% certainty of being bullshit and/or linkbait.

--
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by timestride · 2011-01-13 03:41 · Score: 1

Try holding a device in one hand and doing a multitouch gesture with the same hand. It would be a real treat to see you do that without dropping the device.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:43 · Score: 0

MOST people hold the device in one hand, and then WITH A SECOND HAND, perform gestures on the screen.
So, yes, you are correct, people gesture with one hand, but you failed to realize that the device is not magically floating in air.
Close though.
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by imakemusic · 2011-01-13 03:50 · Score: 1

Well... Unless you're a telekinetic and can make your phone levitate while you perform your multitouch gesture, you'll probably need your other hand to hold the phone.
Alright Snarkypants, keep your hair on.
The article is talking about iPads, not iPhones (although I admit I accidentally replied to the comment that's talking about iPhones rather than the OP and the change will presumably be made to iPhones as well...but still, iPads)
I've not used an iPad but I usually picture them resting in someone's lap or on a table while being used/caressed with one hand while the other hand pours cappuccino into its owners smug maw.
I suppose it would cause you trouble if you were, for example, walking around whilst carrying something (a cappuccino, say) and therefore only had one hand free but if that's the case you should probably be looking where you're going otherwise you might fall over and spill your cappuccino all over your skin-tight jeans and "ironically" ugly t-shirt.

--
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:54 · Score: 0

My guess is they are probably doing what honeycomb is doing for Android in that they are doing this primarily for the tablet. Its probably stupid to do this on a phone - you frequently use it in situations where only one hand is free. It makes more sense for a tablet where you use the device with two hands most of the time and where the user doesn't care about the device's orientation so the home button ends up on the top of the screen sometimes.
But I do agree that the gesture seems a bit awkward. Hold the device in one hand, swipe with the other? I'm not a UI expert, but it seems a lot more awkward than just pressing an on-screen button accessible to a thumb in the corner (at the expense of screen real estate, but I'm sure that can be mitigated in lots of ways.)
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Zelgadiss · 2011-01-13 05:25 · Score: 1

Or standing in the train...
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 09:16 · Score: 0

I'm writing this Slashdot comment on my iPhone while driving, you insensitive clod!
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 12:55 · Score: 1

For the iPhone you have no excuse, anything you need to do while driving you can do with the headset shortcuts. Play / pause / stop / skip / go back / fast forward / rewind the music, make / finish / answer / ignore calls.
Anything else and you shouldn't be doing while driving.
Wonderful advice, I'll distribute pamphlets to the community in the hopes to effectively inform them of this idea that is easily understood and respected. We'll all be much safer thanks to underdogs like you.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 13:11 · Score: 1

MOST people hold the device in one hand, and then WITH A SECOND HAND, perform gestures on the screen.
So, yes, you are correct, people gesture with one hand, but you failed to realize that the device is not magically floating in air.
Close though.
Some people only have one hand. Some people only have one finger. Fortunately they're well into the third standard deviation, but come on, it's an accessibility nightmare already when you're required to "flick" or "pinch" anything.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:Now it's a mandatory 2 handed device? by Cerium · 2011-01-15 04:46 · Score: 1

I think anyone wearing such an outfit deserves to have cappuccino spilled on them. Preferably on their face.

-Steve Jobs by Carebears · 2011-01-13 02:07 · Score: 1

You're Gesturing all wrong.

Being serious, by Kupfernigk · 2011-01-13 02:08 · Score: 5, Informative

Any massmarket device needs to be usable with one finger. Multitouch needs an alternative and accessible one-finger backup operation. What happened to accessibility?

A "get me somewhere familiar" button should almost be mandatory on anything without a keyboard.

--
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."

Re:Being serious, by TOGSolid · 2011-01-13 03:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

Apple
Accessibility

Bhahahahahahahahahahah
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 03:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

Accessibility is being sacrificed to Steve Jobs' irrational (bordering on personality disorder) dislike of buttons.
It's almost to the level of a phobia.
The iPhone would be FAR better with a slide keyboard. "Touchscreens" are shit-poor interfaces for trying to type on a mini-chiclet keyboard space unless you are using a stylus; sure the iPhone pops up a "larger" image of the button you are "pressing", but I can't read it past my thumbnail anyways, so it does little good.
I've lost count of the number of times I misdialed a number simply because I was on the "edge" of the damn touchscreen dialing interface and bumped the 4 instead of 5 or 5 instead of 6. With a real touch interface, I'd have tactile feedback and I'd know which damn button I was on.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 03:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

Eh, I don't get the hate. As someone with ridiculously large hands and fingers, I find using iOS a lot easier than some of the teensy keyboards found on other smart phones.

Point is: It's not black and white, and Apple's success in this field obviously means they have at least a clue what they're doing. Listening to most /. geeks, you'd think the opposite was true.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by dloose · 2011-01-13 03:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

I thought Apple was widely noted for its accessibility features. I've read a few articles about how great the iPad is for blind people. Did I miss a joke here?
Re:Being serious, by 0100010001010011 · 2011-01-13 03:31 · Score: 0

Apple Accessibility has been VERY good going back to when I started using System 7. Spoken dialog boxes, mouse keys, etc. OS X seems has a System Preferences pane broken down into Seeing, Hearing, Keyboard, and Mouse.
Re:Being serious, by beh · 2011-01-13 03:33 · Score: 2

The iPhone would be FAR better, if it could brew coffee on demand at any time and place...
Yet, I think the extra weight of the coffee maker might not make the device quite as portable as it is without.
The same goes for keyboards - I wouldn't type long texts on my iPhone or even iPad. But for most of the time when I'm out of the house, for the limited things I do when 'on the road', the onscreen keyboard helps. And it's certainly making the device lighter and with less moving-parts that could break, than if it HAD a keyboard.
If I'm on a longer trip, I tend to have my laptop with me - keyboard problem solved.
Just because YOUR usage pattern makes a slide keyboard THE thing to have, does not make it so for most people. I don't think most people are sharing the exact usage patterns I have, but if XYZdevice doesn't match the functionality I need, I just wouldn't buy it - instead of ranting on about Steve Jobs's irrational side (or anyone else's for that matter).
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 03:39 · Score: 1

Not really. Apple's "success" in the field is a result of:
- being first in the field (prior to Apple, the best you had were Blackberries, which have an incredibly limited scope in app capability).
- Piggybacking onto a large-scale carrier to be "exclusive" to that carrier, in exchange for getting the business of anyone who wanted a "smartphone" but didn't want to go through the hassle of trying to transfer their number away (AT&T are the WORST to try to keep your number from when you leave).
- Marketing, marketing, marketing. If there's one game Apple plays well it's the hype game.
Android phones are getting more and more popular. I know a hell of a lot of people who've abandoned the iPhone for a Droid model and every one says that the biggest upside, aside from not being beholden to Apple's "walled garden fuck you" method of OS design, is the fact that they have a physical keyboard to work with.
I have stubby fingers. For me, iOS's "touch keyboard" is just about unusable with any regularity. On the other hand, the mini-chiclet keyboard on my prior phone was no problem because I could feel the edge between the keys.
Re:Being serious, by peragrin · 2011-01-13 03:44 · Score: 1

I hate sliding keyboards they break, the buttons hurt your fingers, they suck in general. The iphone dialing has giant buttons that even old people can use and not misdial. The on screen keyboard is better than most alternatives(swype is an execption).
This is a phone if you need to type out 200wpm your doing something wrong. SMS are generally limited to 160 characters, and if you have more than a three sentence conversation text it call the person it will be faster.
I can type faster on my iphone than eery slider to date simply because the buttons are huge compared to sliders.

--
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 03:46 · Score: 1

No, seriously. Steve Jobs' hate/fear of buttons is actually pathological.
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 03:53 · Score: 1

iPhone 3GS screen size: 3.5" diagonal (2.76" wide if held sideways). That's also the keyboard width.
Slide keyboard width on my older phone: 3.1".
My buttons were bigger than the iOS "buttons", and I had the tactile feedback from them when typing too.
Now please stop smoking crack.
This is a phone if you need to type out 200wpm your doing something wrong.
If I want to dash off a quick 48 character reply and I don't want to have 2 dozen typos in it, I want a real fucking keyboard, thank you very much.
Re:Being serious, by somersault · 2011-01-13 04:02 · Score: 1

The iPhone would be FAR better with a slide keyboard. "Touchscreens" are shit-poor interfaces for trying to type on a mini-chiclet keyboard space unless you are using a stylus;
I used to think this, but the touch keyboard on my Droid is a lot better than I expected (though it is 5" rather than the iPhone's 4"). After a couple of weeks getting used to the touch keyboard I didn't really make any more mistakes than I was making on my physical keyboard. Also with Android 2.2 the auto-correct is pretty good at knowing what you meant to type even when you make mistakes. I don't think that feature was available in 2.1, either that or I had it turned off. So now I can type even faster and sloppier but still get good results :p
All things considered, I think getting rid of the keyboard is good for keeping weight and size down, and reduces the number of moving parts which has got to be good for durability. Despite my phone having such a large display, it's still pretty light and elegant.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Being serious, by djrobxx · 2011-01-13 04:11 · Score: 1

Apple has regularly failed ergonomics, especially when trying to simplify. Look at their one button mice. Ever since that "invention", they've cooked up all sorts of strange alternatives that do the same thing, just not as well - sensors that sense where your finger is when you click the one button, three finger clicking on touchpads, etc. I know so many Mac enthusiasts that use third party mice and keyboards (often from MIcrosoft .. oh the irony). Doing away with the home button is a very very bad idea. The primary reason we bought an iPad is that it's simple enough to use that my Mom can use it to participate with the rest of us. "If you ever get lost, press this button to start over" really made the experience simple for her.
Re:Being serious, by powerlord · 2011-01-13 04:15 · Score: 1

iPhone 3GS screen size: 3.5" diagonal (2.76" wide if held sideways). That's also the keyboard width.
And that is exactly why SJ wants to do away with the "home" button. If you remove the home button, then you can expand the screen and utilize all the "dead" space around the Home Key. Essentially you can make a device with a larger screen, yet still fit into the same form factor.
Personally I think it sacrifices a lot of the "pick up and use" functionality. My 70 year old aunt who has never used a computer because she sees it as too complicated, is now using Safari on an iPhone to the amazement of her friends. One of the things that she specifically sited that made it easy to use was the Home button to get her back to the main screen.

--
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 04:18 · Score: 1

Not really.

Not really what? You're saying they don't have a clue, then list all the ways they have a clue? I'm confused.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Dishevel · 2011-01-13 04:18 · Score: 1

Why do you own a phone you hate. Some people want or need physical keyboards. Some people do better without. Then there are those people who want or need it one way. Buy a phone that dose not fit their needs then proceeds to inform everyone of what a shitty decision the manufacturer made.
I hate it when people around me are so stupid that they force me to sound as if I am defending a product I do not even like.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 04:19 · Score: 1

Better design would be to use the "dead space" around the Home Key for a Back/HangUp button, or Enter/Confirm/Dial button...
But then again, like I said, Steve Jobs' avoidance of buttons is pathological in nature.
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 04:22 · Score: 1

They don't have a clue on interface design. Or at least not enough of one to have someone with a little common sense counteract the design flaws introduced by Steve Jobs' pathological fear of buttons.
They had a good marketing plan, which explains their success-to-this-point (diminishing daily now that their competitors have caught up) in the field.
That was my point, which I have now boiled down to a simpler one-sentence explanation that you may have a hope of comprehending what I said before.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 04:25 · Score: 1

"If you ever get lost, press this button to start over" really made the experience simple for her.

Which, according to TFA, would change to ""If you ever get lost, do this hand motion on the screen." Yawn.

Thanks also for making my point for me. Nobody but geeks give a shit about Apple's "failed" ergonomics. People here need to stop bitching about being one percenters and maybe learn a few things instead.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by CohibaVancouver · 2011-01-13 04:28 · Score: 2

I thought Apple was widely noted for its accessibility features
Are you joking? The iPad isn't even allowed to have arrow keys.

[Insert fanboy rants here about how arrow keys are 1970s technology, only losers need them and Jobs Knows Best.]
Re:Being serious, by Dishevel · 2011-01-13 04:31 · Score: 0

So is your need to bitch about a decision YOU made.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Re:Being serious, by Dishevel · 2011-01-13 04:32 · Score: 1

Buy a phone with a real keyboard. You are welcome very much.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 04:34 · Score: 1

Fuck you too.
At the time my prior phone died (not due to a defect unless you consider "unable to survive an accidental 30-foot fall" a defect), iPhone was the "best smartphone" available.
That doesn't mean it doesn't, to this day, have GLARING design flaws caused by Steve Jobs' pathological phobia of buttons.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 04:39 · Score: 2

They don't have a clue on interface design.

Oh, OK. You didn't pay an ounce of attention to what I wrote. As I said to your sibling, IT DOESN'T MATTER. The proof in the pudding is their amazing sales. It doesn't matter if you and the rest of the one percenters don't like or if it fails any kind of standard test, they obvioulsy figured something out.

Shorter: My "clue" was generalized. Your response was specific, and therefore missing my point.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 04:42 · Score: 1

It doesn't matter if you and the rest of the one percenters don't like or if it fails any kind of standard test, they obvioulsy figured something out.
What they "figured out" is no different from what a number of companies to make a "first in the industry" product have figured out, and it has absolutely sod-all to do with actually making a decent design.
The proof in the pudding is their amazing sales.
And two years from now, the "proof in the pudding" will be all the news stories about "well fuck, how did the iphone fall that fast?", just like the similar stories for the past two years about the downfall of RIM and the Blackberry.
Re:Being serious, by Bassman59 · 2011-01-13 04:48 · Score: 1

They don't have a clue on interface design. Or at least not enough of one to have someone with a little common sense counteract the design flaws introduced by Steve Jobs' pathological fear of buttons.
So then explain why all of the other smart phone touch-screen interfaces are essentially clones of the iPhone interface?
Re:Being serious, by Dishevel · 2011-01-13 04:48 · Score: 0

You seem to have issues. Obviously you would have been better off with a phone with a keyboard. I understand that at the time the iPhone was the only choice you could make that would prove to all around you your supremacy. But if that is the reason you purchased the phone then whining about the lack of a keyboard seems a bit disingenuous at best. The phone is doing exactly what you bought it for and performing exactly as you knew it would at purchase.
So your problem with the phone other than the fact that it dose exactly as you knew it would is what exactly?

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 04:54 · Score: 1

Have you considered that you're just an ass-hatted troll?
I understand that at the time the iPhone was the only choice you could make that would prove to all around you your supremacy.
I don't give a crap about "supremacy", I wanted my phone to do a few different things, and the iPhone was the best option at the time, if a very flawed and imperfect choice.
The fact remains that Apple's design choices are moving backwards, not forwards.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 04:57 · Score: 1, Troll

and it has absolutely sod-all to do with actually making a decent design.

And where did I say anything about decent design? I didn't. Stop arguing against yourself, it's rude.

And two years from now, the "proof in the pudding" will be all the news stories about "well fuck, how did the iphone fall that fast?", just like the similar stories for the past two years about the downfall of RIM and the Blackberry.

Are you serious? Fantasy passing for argument now? I won't hold my breath, btw.

But I will bookmark this and see you in 2 years ;)

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Dishevel · 2011-01-13 05:08 · Score: 0

Unless your "things" were Angry Birds you did not look very hard. There were some very good phones out there. Nokia had some great stuff. Was usually ahead of iPhone in performance and the ability to "get things done".
You can continue to call me names if you wish. But everyone here can see that you are bitching about a phone YOU decided to purchase because it dose not have a feature YOU have decided is important to YOU.
There is no defense. This is a site filled with people who know this stuff. When the iPhone first came out we all knew by day 2 that everything about it was marketing, App store, and UI design. It did and continues to do nothing that other phones do not do as well or better.
You excuse therefor is only that. An excuse.
Go throw profanity and feces at someone else now.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Re:Being serious, by aix+tom · 2011-01-13 05:11 · Score: 1

Perhaps Jobs is just a closet Jedi?
On the next version you will probably have to to do a mysterious hand-wave, accompanied by a murmured "You will take me back home now."
Re:Being serious, by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:11 · Score: 0

Two things I like about the home button. One, I can do most common operations one-handed, by cradling the phone in my palm and tapping with my thumb. Two, I can pick up the phone without looking at it and tell by feel if I'm holding it in the right orientation. Can't do either of those with a featureless expanse of glass and multi-touch gestures.
Re:Being serious, by beh · 2011-01-13 05:15 · Score: 1

So? How is that relevant to me?
I'm happy with the iPhone as it is - completely independently of whether Steve Jobs has a psychological condition or not.
I'd still prefer the iPhone over Android, no matter whether Steve would be healthy or sick, black or white, saint or sinner, started selling crack or even Android phones, ...
Does the company CEOs health or personality have ANY impact on what the device itself does or how well it works? Maybe it has - maybe it's become a lot better BECAUSE of his personality 'defects'.
But then again, without the iPhone, do you really think you'd get an Android phone?
It doesn't matter - the phone does what I want from a phone, it has the apps I'd want on the phone, it looks good, I luckily don't have to turn every cent over twice before buying a phone, so the higher price tag doesn't touch me (enough), ... ...maybe I would draw a line if he endorsed Palin, but that's a whole different issue... ;-)
Re:Being serious, by contrapunctus · 2011-01-13 05:22 · Score: 2, Informative

you are coreect
http://www.cbc.ca/spark/2010/10/full-interview-austin-seraphin-on-the-iphone-for-blind-users/
Re:Being serious, by Moryath · 2011-01-13 05:27 · Score: 1

Explain how you think that they are "clones."
Android has multiple buttons (thank god).
Spacing icons out on a screen and having multiple "pages" on a screen is not unique to Apple. If anything, Apple ripped off RIM for that.
Re:Being serious, by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:30 · Score: 0

Mcdonalds food demonstrates a mastery in fine taste and nutrition, I conclude this based on their sales and therefore they must be doing something right.
Re:Being serious, by Mike_EE_U_of_I · 2011-01-13 05:47 · Score: 1

You wrote "As someone with ridiculously large hands and fingers, I find using iOS a lot easier than some of the teensy keyboards found on other smart phones."
Indeed. I'm 6'4" and have hands bigger than probably 99% of the population. I was stunned at how well I can type on the Iphone and Ipad keyboards. With the Iphone, I've never had such a small input device work so well for me. I do not miss the physical keyboard at all. And I'm a guy that held off getting an Iphone for 2 years because I thought the lack of a keyboard was not acceptable.
Re:Being serious, by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 06:00 · Score: 0

Apple's success in this field obviously means they have at least a clue what they're doing
Yep. They have an amazing marketing team. Now back to multitouch and accessibility...
Re:Being serious, by Rosy+At+Random · 2011-01-13 06:27 · Score: 2

Slashdot thanks you for your input

--
Would you like a slice of toast?
Re:Being serious, by s73v3r · 2011-01-13 06:36 · Score: 1

Just to point out, most of the more popular Android phones don't have hardware keyboards. In fact, there's really only a handful of them that do, and only a couple that aren't marketed as slightly more than feature phones for texters (Droid 1/2 and some phone on Sprint being the heavy duty ones I can think of right now).
Re:Being serious, by arose · 2011-01-13 06:47 · Score: 1

Also, has been there since just about forever. Is there a GUI OS that did/does not have icon grids somewhere?

--
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Re:Being serious, by Man+On+Pink+Corner · 2011-01-13 08:06 · Score: 1

Two, I can pick up the phone without looking at it and tell by feel if I'm holding it in the right orientation. Can't do either of those with a featureless expanse of glass and multi-touch gestures.
One of the things you notice that's different about the iPad is that it really doesn't matter how you orient it. If the iPhone's desktop could rearrange itself in landscape mode and/or invert itself, the way the iPad's desktop can, nobody would have a problem.
Also, one of the things they could do if they got rid of the home button would be to leave the task manager up all the time. That would give you access to multiple buttons with a quick swipe.
Re:Being serious, by rsborg · 2011-01-13 08:07 · Score: 1

What they "figured out" is no different from what a number of companies to make a "first in the industry" product have figured out, and it has absolutely sod-all to do with actually making a decent design.
"first in the industry"? Which industry would that be? Mobile phones? PDAs? Smartphones? Each of these "industries" existed for years before the iPhone came out and cleaned their clocks. The iPhone was the first smartphone with a decent UI, sync model, and reasonable data plan (orig was $20/mo while Verizon required $45/mo for my older Treo)... but it was still a smartphone. Unless you are stating the industry as "iPhone-clones".

--
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Re:Being serious, by CptNerd · 2011-01-13 11:31 · Score: 1

Especially effective is the squad of armed marketers holding guns to peoples' heads to make them buy.

--
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 11:33 · Score: 1

The proof in the pudding is their amazing sales.
I guess Microsoft Windows is absolutely brilliant in almost every way, and FAR superior to any other offering in the PC market then.
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 11:46 · Score: 1

So then explain why all of the other smart phone touch-screen interfaces are essentially clones of the iPhone interface?
You obviously haven't used Android or BlackberryOS or WP7 then because they are absolutely not clones of the iphone interface, they are not just 'buttons on the homescreen' like the iphone is. I'd be interested to know how you come to the conclusion that the competitors have cloned the iOS interface.
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 12:10 · Score: 1

And that is exactly why SJ wants to do away with the "home" button. If you remove the home button, then you can expand the screen and utilize all the "dead" space around the Home Key. Essentially you can make a device with a larger screen, yet still fit into the same form factor.
Even if you had a 4" screen on it it would be idiotic to make 4 or 5 screen gestures the only option for home button functions, it's just too small.
Re:Being serious, by Aphoxema · 2011-01-13 12:36 · Score: 1

Eh, I don't get the hate. As someone with ridiculously large hands and fingers, I find using iOS a lot easier than some of the teensy keyboards found on other smart phones.
Point is: It's not black and white, and Apple's success in this field obviously means they have at least a clue what they're doing. Listening to most /. geeks, you'd think the opposite was true.
I find the soft keyboard kind of messy but my fingers are very sensitive to pain... blackberries for one are like poking at little nails and I'm trying to get all the weight of one without rolling my finger onto another one.
I think support for bluetooth keyboards might be a pretty fair solution for anyone who doesn't mind the extra handful.

--
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Re:Being serious, by gstoddart · 2011-01-13 13:45 · Score: 1

Are you joking? The iPad isn't even allowed to have arrow keys
Actually, it took me two months to discover this on my iPad ... If you press and hold on text entry fields, you get a 'zoom' bubble, slide your finger until the cursor is where you want it, and release ... It's actually faster than arrow keys.
You have equivalent functionality ... Not better, just different.
Cheers

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Being serious, by mjwx · 2011-01-13 15:09 · Score: 1

As someone with ridiculously large hands and fingers, I find using iOS a lot easier than some of the teensy keyboards found on other smart phones.
As someone with quite large hands I call bollocks on this.

I much prefer the physical KB on my Moto Milestone or an E71. Small keys are not an issue because of the gaps in between them, using an OSK is painful, especially the one in IOS where it thinks it knows what you're saying better than you (typing in En_AU is ridiculously painful). If I try to thumb over one of IOS's tiny on screen keys I end up getting two, with a physical KB despite my finger covering more than one key, I only press one.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:Being serious, by Thing+1 · 2011-01-13 16:20 · Score: 1

The proof in the pudding is their amazing sales
I love how people view the pudding as containing some sort of Cracker Jack-like prize. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." It's not in the pudding.

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 16:37 · Score: 1

Holy fuck you people are dense. Where did I say it was superior? You haters make the fanbois look sane.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 16:43 · Score: 1

As someone with quite large hands I call bollocks on this.

Uhhh, good for you? Doesn't change how I feel. And I'm not saying you're wrong either, just that onscreen keyboards aren't that hard to use.

typing in En_AU is ridiculously painful

Well, as a Pom, I think you're already doing it wrong in the first place, so you have no right to bitch ;)

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 16:47 · Score: 1

Holy fuck you people are dense. Where did I say it was superior? You haters make the fanbois look sane.
oh ok, so you tell me then, which specific qualities can you and can't you judge on pure sales then?
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 16:50 · Score: 1

I think you deserve a whoosh for that one.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-13 16:53 · Score: 1

How about success, which was the only thing I was talking about in the first place? Jesus, how hard is it to read the damn thread you're involved in?

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 16:58 · Score: 1

You haters make the fanbois look sane.
I didn't even disagree with your argument, i just disagreed with your justification for it, and by your retarded logic that immediately makes me an apple hater?! wtf are you on you retard?!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-13 17:06 · Score: 1

How about success, which was the only thing I was talking about in the first place?
Really? You were trying to say apple's platform is successful? Wow...maybe you should change your name to Captain Obvious.

Jesus, how hard is it to read the damn thread you're involved in?
Well actually i did, and you said they must 'have a clue' about user interface design (is there anything that restricts it to UI design and not every other part of the OS?) and that the proof of that is their large amount of sales so by that logic MS must have a comparatively good handle on PC operating system design vs their competitors given their marketshare.
But such claims aren't really valid since there are too many other factors (marketing for example) at play.
Re:Being serious, by Hognoxious · 2011-01-13 18:54 · Score: 1

How about success, which was the only thing I was talking about in the first place? Jesus, how hard is it to read the damn thread you're involved in?
The thread was specifically about UI design until you hijacked it with your ignoratio elenchi.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Being serious, by MichaelSmith · 2011-01-13 21:28 · Score: 1

typing in En_AU is ridiculously painful
Well, as a Pom, I think you're already doing it wrong in the first place, so you have no right to bitch ;)
I think we can agree its better than Fr_AU.

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:Being serious, by dloose · 2011-01-14 01:12 · Score: 1

So wait... are you saying that the blind people who laud the iPad for its accessibility are wrong? I know I'm focusing on a single disability, but the fact that some blind people think the iPad is easy to use must mean that Apple doesn't totally suck at accessibility. I mean, it's a giant screen with 1 button on it, and friggin blind people can use it.
[Insert fanboy rant here about how Apple sucks and why do people still buy Apple stuff when I tell them every day how much it sucks and why are you walking away from me and abloobloobloo]
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-14 01:55 · Score: 1

you said they must 'have a clue' about user interface design

Where? You're 3 for 3, moron.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by Bassman59 · 2011-01-14 05:18 · Score: 1

So then explain why all of the other smart phone touch-screen interfaces are essentially clones of the iPhone interface?
You obviously haven't used Android or BlackberryOS or WP7 then because they are absolutely not clones of the iphone interface, they are not just 'buttons on the homescreen' like the iphone is. I'd be interested to know how you come to the conclusion that the competitors have cloned the iOS interface.
OK, perhaps "clone" is too strong a word. How about, "Wow, this really looks highly similar to the iPhone interface? Couldn't they think of anything different?"
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-16 10:03 · Score: 1

Where? You're 3 for 3, moron.
Read what you wrote:

Apple's success in this field obviously means they have at least a clue what they're doing
In response to comments about UI design, or did you not read what you were responding to?
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-16 10:11 · Score: 1

OK, perhaps "clone" is too strong a word. How about, "Wow, this really looks highly similar to the iPhone interface? Couldn't they think of anything different?"
The iPhone interface isn't exactly that much different to what you see on an old nokia menu screen.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-17 03:15 · Score: 1

Sorry, no. I was talking about the keyboard, and the slashdot crowd complete unhinged lunacy when it comes to success they don't understand/control. You're a perfect example.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-17 10:15 · Score: 1

Sorry, no.
UI, accessibility, keyboard, whatever...you can't say they 'have a clue' in any of those fields based purely on sales.

and the slashdot crowd complete unhinged lunacy when it comes to success they don't understand/control.
Oh yes, the slashdot crowd, every commenter refers to the 'slashdot crowd' some mythical community that exists yet no commenter is actually a part of it.

You're a perfect example.
And you're a perfect example of the type of fanboi that makes apple users (including myself) look like douchebags, the person who claims that anyone who disagrees with him on an opinion of Apple must be an apple hater.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-17 15:16 · Score: 1

UI, accessibility, keyboard, whatever...you can't say they 'have a clue' in any of those fields based purely on sales.

And I never did. This is what, the fourth time you've tried this line of argument?

fanboi

Another hard fail. Again, if you can find anything in any of my thousands of comments that shows I'm a fanboi...

Keep beating these dead horses. I've never seen anybody works so hard to be so wrong.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-17 17:08 · Score: 1

And I never did. This is what, the fourth time you've tried this line of argument?
Quite clearly you did, you wrote it in your comment. Read it, this is like the fourth time you've FAILED to do that, here I'll quote it for you:

Apple's success in this field obviously means they have at least a clue what they're doing
That was in response to a comment about the Accessibility of the UI. Are you that thick that not only can you not remember writing that but you can't even look back to see that you wrote it?!

if you can find anything in any of my thousands of comments that shows I'm a fanboi...
You IMMEDIATELY called me a 'hater' when i disagreed with you, here i'll quote it for you since you probably don't remember and can't seem to be able to re-read your own comments:

You haters make the fanbois look sane.
I disagreed with you so that makes me a hater does it?
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-18 04:05 · Score: 1

Same you couldn't read any further - you missed the part where i said it didn't matter, in all caps, no less.

That's been my whole point all long, one you've still failed to grasp - you silly geeks with your silly rules are completely unable to predict or explain success and get all in a lather about stupid minutiae instead of learning something.

Oh, and if all it takes to make me a fanboi is to troll you by calling you a hater, great! Keep playing this stupid game.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-18 10:03 · Score: 1

Same you couldn't read any further - you missed the part where i said it didn't matter, in all caps, no less.
Yes, you said it doesn't matter because be they have great sales, which is why I put my initial comment regarding MS Windows...if all that matters is market success then Microsoft is at the top of the game with Windows.

you silly geeks with your silly rules are completely unable to predict or explain success
what rules? geek? unable to predict success? Now you've failed the argument so you're just going off on random topics.

and get all in a lather about stupid minutiae instead of learning something.
Accessibility of the UI is a MAJOR issue, which is what we were discussing, and you then decide it doesn't matter because they have lots of sales...well SO DOES MICROSOFT with Windows. I guess security or stability or any other issue doesn't matter because they have lots of sales.

Oh, and if all it takes to make me a fanboi is to troll you by calling you a hater, great!
Troll or fanboi, pathetic either way.

Keep playing this stupid game.
Don't whinge just because you're looking stupid.
Re:Being serious, by Captain+Splendid · 2011-01-18 10:18 · Score: 1

if all that matters is market success then Microsoft is at the top of the game with Windows.

My bad. I thought you were being sarcastic with that post, but apparently you were just being tautological.

what rules?

Well, like this UI crap you keep going on about. Let's see: you called it a MAJOR issue. All I'm saying is that it apparently isn't. You're the one complaining here, don't forget.

geeks?

LOL.

Now you've failed the argument so you're just going off on random topics.

No, you're still sucking hard at that reading comprehension thing.

Accessibility of the UI is a MAJOR issue, which is what we were discussing, and you then decide it doesn't matter because they have lots of sales...well SO DOES MICROSOFT with Windows. I guess security or stability or any other issue doesn't matter because they have lots of sales.

Woooh! More redundancy. Notice you still haven't addressed my point.

Troll or fanboi, pathetic either way.

Finally, a glimmer of comprehension. Will the other shoe drop?

Don't whinge just because you're looking stupid.

Whinging? I'm ecstatic! Most people give up and crawl away, but you're obvioulsy determined to be as pathetic as me. Carry on.

--
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Being serious, by exomondo · 2011-01-18 10:44 · Score: 1

Well, like this UI crap you keep going on about. Let's see: you called it a MAJOR issue. All I'm saying is that it apparently isn't. You're the one complaining here, don't forget.
So...by the same logic you must concede that security or stability obviously isn't an issue for Windows, but instead you went on some rant about how I must be a 'hater'.

So same feature more fingers? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:08 · Score: 0

So they want to replace a single finger feature with one that requires 4 or more fingers? Way to simplify. And what if I've lost a few fingers?

Re:So same feature more fingers? by tverbeek · 2011-01-13 02:47 · Score: 1

You don't even need to lose fingers for some of these multitouch gestures to be problematic. I have a pinched nerve that affects coordination with my index finger, so I tend to use my middle finger instead. One of my friends has cerebral palsy and has diminished coordination with all 10 fingers. People with arthritis or early-stage Parkinson's can have pain and/or difficulty with more complex gestures. Heck, I've seen people (mostly in Jobs' age group and older) who struggle a little with pinch and zoom.

--
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Re:So same feature more fingers? by Lumpy · 2011-01-13 02:55 · Score: 1

Try really dry hands, some mornings with it being -4DegF here the phone will not respond to any touches until Iick my finger.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:So same feature more fingers? by ColdWetDog · 2011-01-13 05:45 · Score: 1

Try really dry hands, some mornings with it being -4DegF here the phone will not respond to any touches until Iick my finger.
STOP! Go no further.

Please.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!

This changes everything! by Synn · 2011-01-13 02:09 · Score: 1

I can't wait to see the marketing buzz for this:

Changes everything.

Magical experience.

Revolutionary.

A new saying is born by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:09 · Score: 0

You can't go home on 3 fingers.

Better not... by pizza_milkshake · 2011-01-13 02:09 · Score: 1

I don't have 4 fingers you insensitive clod!

Re:Better not... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:48 · Score: 0

Use your dick.

Screen Space by kellyb9 · 2011-01-13 02:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

I like the idea for one reason - Maximized Screen Space. The entire front of the device will be a multitouch surface.

Re:Screen Space by splerdu · 2011-01-13 02:12 · Score: 1

+1 on that!
Home button functionality could easily be moved to a small button on the side, in case of crashed apps.
Re:Screen Space by SimonTheSoundMan · 2011-01-13 02:14 · Score: 1

Wish they did this for the iPhone too. The space could be used for game controls for example.
Re:Screen Space by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:55 · Score: 0

That would be totally annoying. I already have a problem with my thumb touching the touch-part of the screen when I'm holding the iPad.
Re:Screen Space by mmustapic · 2011-01-13 03:07 · Score: 2

You need a border around the mutitouch surface so you can grab the device. Otherwise your thumb would be generating touch events all the time.
Re:Screen Space by BasilBrush · 2011-01-13 03:20 · Score: 1

For the iPhone, having the screen fill the entire front would:
1) Mean a change of display resolution, and not a simple doubling, but a change of the aspect ratio. or
2) Making the phone shorter. Which would make it a very odd shape for a phone. or
3) Make it wider, which would make it hard to hold
For the iPad, it would mean there's no way to hold it with one hand without making unwanted touches on the screen.
I guess what they could do in both cases though is to keep the screen size the same as now, but extend the touch sensitive area to the whole of the front of the device. Then they could have a virtual home button rather than a physical button. And also allow gestures that start or end off screen, rather like WebOS.
(Touches from the holding hand would be disregarded because they are neither gestures, nor touches in the home button area.)
Re:Screen Space by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 04:18 · Score: 0

...then you just have to use the screen space to put buttons on...ie the iOS browser that has an array of buttons at the bottom. compare to the android browser, where the back (most commonly used) button is on the handset. It makes no sense - more screen is more expensive than a button, and all you're going to see on that bit of screen is...a button!
Re:Screen Space by exomondo · 2011-01-13 13:28 · Score: 1

I like the idea for one reason - Maximized Screen Space. The entire front of the device will be a multitouch surface.
I can see how that would matter on the iPhone, but not on the iPad. Though the iPhone is the place where - even with a 4" screen - 4 or 5 finger gestures are not usable.

Apple bashing by The+End+Of+Days · 2011-01-13 02:11 · Score: 0

You Apple bashers should just stick to gay jokes. Your new material sucks.

Re:Apple bashing by DrgnDancer · 2011-01-13 02:39 · Score: 1

I'm an iPhone user and a Mac owner (I don't say "Mac user" because my wife stole it :-)), and I think this is a pretty bad idea. There are are at least two major functions to the home key (return to the home page and task switching) and not many obvious or intuitive gestures left. Any of them are likely to require two hands. It's also much more comfortable to activate the phone by using the home key than using the power key. I'm all for the inclusion of new gestures to mimic the home key's functions, but not for the removal of the key itself. On the other hand this is completely unfounded rumor so we'll see what happens.

--
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.

They won't by joh · 2011-01-13 02:12 · Score: 1

Come on, a four or five finger gesture to return to the home screen is totally undiscoverable and many younger, older or somehow disabled users won't be able to use it reliably at all.

Re:They won't by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:23 · Score: 0

Come on, a four or five finger gesture to return to the home screen is totally undiscoverable and many younger, older or somehow disabled users won't be able to use it reliably at all.
Older users are confused by anything new. And slow to learn. I know, I'm old. Bad reason to stop progress.
You are wrong about younger users. Just the opposite.
Disabled will have to change the gesture. If there isn't a way to do that then that needs to be fixed.
Re:They won't by Xtravar · 2011-01-13 03:05 · Score: 1

My grandpa just got an iPad. He loves it. I convinced him after he kept bitching about his computer and how it "had a mind of its own". With the iPad, tech support requirements magically go away. You are correct in that removing the home button would deny an entire market of elderly folks, so I agree.

--
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.

what? by kshade · 2011-01-13 02:13 · Score: 1

How is this news?

Re: what? by TimHunter · 2011-01-13 02:44 · Score: 1

It's not. It's just a way to give the anti-Apple /. crowd a chance to post some mindless reflexive insults.
"OMG! Steve Jobs is taking away our home button! I don't even have an iPhone or an iPad and I'm still indignant! Only gay Apple fanbois buy iCrap!"
Re: what? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 13:40 · Score: 0

"OMG! Steve Jobs is taking away our home button! I don't even have an iPhone or an iPad and I'm still indignant! Only gay Apple fanbois buy iCrap!"
Everything steve jobs does is perfect and great, no-one who owns any iDevices would ever criticize an Apple design decision. Anyone who doesn't like it obviously doesn't have such a device and their criticism cannot possibly be anything but mindless insults.
You're an Apple fanboi...we get it. Yet many of us that own Apple devices aren't fanbois and do sometimes see flaws in Apple's decisions (or rumors of Apple's decisions). No-one wants to sit through a whole release cycle waiting for them to return a feature (see. ipad hardware orientation lock) that was obviously widely used because they made a bad decision and took it away.

Less usable by ktappe · 2011-01-13 02:14 · Score: 1

If Apple does this, what took 1 finger in the past would now require 5. That's an indisputable step backwards in usability. Hope it doesn't happen.

--
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007

Steve's dream by elrous0 · 2011-01-13 02:17 · Score: 1

In an ideal Apple world, the iPad would have no buttons and would just display a feed directly from Steve all day of what he thinks the user needs to see.

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.

"how" is fine by roc97007 · 2011-01-13 02:18 · Score: 1

But what about "Why"? Has Steve Jobs said *why* we should do without a home screen button?

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Re:"how" is fine by TimHunter · 2011-01-13 02:34 · Score: 1

Steve Jobs has not said anything about a home screen button. BGR has reported that "one of our Apple sources" said "some pretty wild information."
ASAR (Another Stupid Apple Rumor)
Re:"how" is fine by edxwelch · 2011-01-13 04:04 · Score: 1

It's Apples goal to make their devices cool by removing controls essential to functionality. Next on the list they will remove the touch interface.

Anon by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:19 · Score: 1

I'm still waiting on gesture / multitouch "hotkeys"; IE: Using 2 fingers on the home screen and drawing a "B" would toggle Bluetooth. (I Hate always having it on , as it drains battery, but when I step into my bluetooth-enabled vehicle, I'd like a quicker way to toggle). Same thing could be done with many other toggled options such as wireless, 3G, etc..

If you write your headline as a question by dwightk · 2011-01-13 02:20 · Score: 1

can you say anything you want?

--
Like anyone can even know that

Will you have to be in-bred to use the 2012 iPad? by Enter+the+Shoggoth · 2011-01-13 02:26 · Score: 1

Six finger gestures - all thumbs?

--
Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.

Woo!! Great move by apple!! by s0litaire · 2011-01-13 02:26 · Score: 1

Now my mates can have a dedicated button for their "Fart app"...

--
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"

Jiggle by tomasf · 2011-01-13 02:28 · Score: 2

FWIW, there's no way (afaik) to stop icons from jiggling when you're done rearranging them, other than pressing the home button. I guess they'll have to fix that one.

Re:Jiggle by exomondo · 2011-01-13 13:31 · Score: 1

FWIW, there's no way (afaik) to stop icons from jiggling when you're done rearranging them, other than pressing the home button. I guess they'll have to fix that one.
QFT...you'd have use things like the lock or volume buttons, but apple already shit all over the people that tried to have their camera app use the volume buttons to take pictures.

the terminology for the new gesture by circletimessquare · 2011-01-13 02:29 · Score: 1

the five finger maneuver will be called "the shocker"

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:the terminology for the new gesture by gstoddart · 2011-01-13 13:58 · Score: 1

Oh, rimshot!!!!

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.

Think different (from usability) by Daetrin · 2011-01-13 02:31 · Score: 2

Perhaps it's just because i'm not in the crowd Apple is aiming for, but i really wish my Android phone had _more_ buttons, not less, and i wish they were physical buttons rather than the damn stupid software buttons.

It's nice that i can turn the volume up and down without waking my phone up, but if there were actual physical buttons then other functions could be mapped to those buttons for use when the screen was locked/off. I could even get by with just one working remapable button (though more would be better of course) which i would map to "next track" when using the music app and to "go back 30 seconds" when using Audible's app. Both of those are functions that i frequently want to do while driving but are made awkward by the need to wake the phone up and unlock it in order to enable the soft buttons, while keeping my eyes on the road at the same time. Switching from a dedicated mp3 player with physical buttons to a phone was definitely a case of two steps forward, one step back.

--
This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Re:Think different (from usability) by imakemusic · 2011-01-13 03:05 · Score: 1

Switching from a dedicated mp3 player with physical buttons to a phone was definitely a case of two steps forward, one step back.
True but the controls on my Desire (with winamp app) are still better than my damned temperamental iPod scrollwheel, only about 1/4 of which seems to respond to being touched.

--
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Re:Think different (from usability) by bazorg · 2011-01-13 06:07 · Score: 1

If it's more buttons you need, then Nokia touchscreen phones might be for you. I had a good look at that the N8 the other day and was surprised that it had so many, contrasting with the touchscreen way of doing things these days. I don;t know if any Android partner will build phones like that, but at least there's alternatives for different tastes.
Re:Think different (from usability) by egranlund · 2011-01-13 06:44 · Score: 1

This is why I like my blackberry. Abundance of buttons.

Plus, when you're in any music app (native, pandora, etc), you can use the volume keys to turn the volume up and down, the mute key to pause/play and if you hold any of the volume keys it goes to the previous/next track.

Dead simple while driving.
Re:Think different (from usability) by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-16 22:09 · Score: 0

I am really glad you font work for google then
How ugly would your device be? User programmable button that function differently on different devices? Insane.
I think the physical button is going to be removed. But so is the entire glass frame! Replaced with liquid metal so that the center of any side is a home button.

Shake it to wake it by Tovias · 2011-01-13 02:31 · Score: 1

I'm not sure I like the idea of going completely to a touch screen. I've had iPhones go a little wonky at times and needed that physical button to clear things up.

The gesture for Flash by DiamondGeezer · 2011-01-13 02:31 · Score: 2

...is bring up a picture of Steve Jobs, then place the back of your middle finger against the screen and move up and down. It won't do anything but it makes you feel better

--
Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question

I'll be giving Steve Jobs a one finger gesture by Enter+the+Shoggoth · 2011-01-13 02:32 · Score: 0

I'll be giving Steve Jobs a one finger gesture

--
Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.

Re:I'll be giving Steve Jobs a one finger gesture by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:34 · Score: 1

Wow you are so edgy and cool. You sure showed him!

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2011-01-13 02:33 · Score: 4, Funny

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Since by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:36 · Score: 0

I was raised in a (British) Commonwealth country, I will give apple a 2 fingered gesture...

No home button? Yes. Multitouch reset? No. by RandCraw · 2011-01-13 02:39 · Score: 1

As kellyb9 suggests, a front panel free of buttons is likely to appeal to Jobs & Co. But instead of multitouch, it'd be easy and preferable to reset using a second button on the side, like volume.

Resetting via multifinger multitouch makes no sense, nor would simplifications like one finger pressing repeatedly, or one finger pressing and holding.

Occasionally iPhones freeze and ignore further screen input. What then?

A physical-button-based reset is essential on any device vulnerable to the Halting Problem.

Re:No home button? Yes. Multitouch reset? No. by dingen · 2011-01-13 02:43 · Score: 1

What then?

Then you press the on/off button, which is not the home button.

--
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.

Need to be able to disable the home button by wombatmobile · 2011-01-13 02:45 · Score: 2

I would like to be able to disable the home button so the child with learning difficulties doesn't accidentally keep pressing it while I'm trying to get him to concentrate on the game unsupervised.

Apart from the fatal home button flaw (in this context), the iPad is a marvelous opportunity for teaching and rehabilitation.

Re:Need to be able to disable the home button by lwsimon · 2011-01-13 04:21 · Score: 1

Agreed. My two-year-old loves her Dr. Seuss apps, but I have to hover over her like a hawk, or she's taking video and uploading it to Facebook.
That's not hyperbole, either. We discovered this when she uploaded a video of my wife in her nightgown, sitting on the couch. That got a *lot* of likes.

--
Learn about Photography Basics.
Re:Need to be able to disable the home button by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 04:51 · Score: 0

You could always tape a piece of cardboard over the button...
Re:Need to be able to disable the home button by ColdWetDog · 2011-01-13 05:50 · Score: 1

Duct tape. Can fix almost anything.

--
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:Need to be able to disable the home button by gstoddart · 2011-01-13 14:00 · Score: 1

How would you get out then?

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.

steve jobs, wtf man? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 02:55 · Score: 0

What in the hell do you have against buttons? I love buttons.

For example, I love my keyboard. I enjoy the sounds it makes when I type.
It also doesn't turn into a smudgy piece of crap like an iPhone/iPad screen does.
Just watch. Keyboards for iMac will become touchscreen.... and then cost you $200.

I am just glad I am a PC user...

What if I only have 4 fingers? by DustinB · 2011-01-13 02:56 · Score: 1

... you insensitive clod!

--
Dustin - A different story...

Ahh crap, what am I.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:14 · Score: 0

What am I gonna do with these big bear claws of mine?

I have one gesture..... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:27 · Score: 0

for this whole screen-smearing tactile HMI paradigm that fulfills the "Go Home" function.

Its the one used by English archers to wind the French up in the Middle Ages.

Its very similar to the one used by Churchill in WW2.

its my whole attitude to the i- thing.

And its very concise, :-)

It currently works on iPads only by YaHooL · 2011-01-13 03:29 · Score: 5, Informative

On their What's new in iOS 4.3 page (You need an Apple ID to view link) they wrote:

Test Multi-Touch Gestures for iPad - This beta release contains a preview of new Multi-Touch gestures for iPad. You can use four or five fingers to pinch to the Home Screen; swipe up to reveal the multitasking bar; and swipe left or right between apps. We are providing this preview before releasing them to the public to understand how these gestures work with your apps. Test them and give us your feedback on the Apple Developer Forums.

I attempted a 4-finger-pinch on an iPod-Touch-4th-Gen development device with the latest 4.3 iOS Beta. Beside of being a very uncomfortable thing to perform on a small screen, I didn't notice anything else happening.

Re:It currently works on iPads only by EvilIdler · 2011-01-13 07:12 · Score: 1

Yeah, the 3" screens are a tad cramped. They'll have to come up with some alternate gestures, but it's more likely they'll keep the Home button on the smaller devices.
Re:It currently works on iPads only by YaHooL · 2011-01-13 08:47 · Score: 1

They'll have to come up with some alternate gestures
A good alternative might be having the area below the screen become touch-sensitive. Then you can just have a Home-icon drawn there and tap on it (rather then press) to get Home, double tap to open the Task-manager and etc. This might not trigger any Buttonophobia among Apple's upper management. It would be nice if additionally, this area would accept single finger swipe gestures and a two finger pinch gesture that are configurable.

Re:No home button? Yes. Multitouch reset? No. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:31 · Score: 0

OK, my screen is now locked. I guess in some ways that does solve the problem.

We already have multitouch for the home screen -- the latest gen iPod nano uses it.

Home button is overloaded by Culture20 · 2011-01-13 03:33 · Score: 1

Apple is reportedly planning to do away with the home button on the next-gen iPad and iPhone and replace its functionality with multitouch gestures. And as luck would have it, the newly seeded iOS 4.3 includes support for new multitouch gestures, one of which is the ability to use a four or five finger pinch to go back to the homescreen.

That's nice. What about the other functions of the home button? You know, the button that's so overloaded with functions because Jobs couldn't stand to have more than one (but eventually settled on four and a switch)? It does "home", search when on "home", it opens special apps when locked, with a double click, it opens something else, with a triple click, even other things, it wakes the phone from sleep, etc. Sure, some of those functions would be nice to move to gestures since the home button is too overloaded, but why 4-finger? Got something against the handicapped Steve? I know someone who uses an iPad because her fingers don't allow her to use a mouse or keyboard well, but she can use two hands to do the two-finger gestures, and press the home-button with one finger. I guess she'll be using the middle finger with Apple in the future.

Re:No home button? Yes. Multitouch reset? No. by Culture20 · 2011-01-13 03:44 · Score: 1

What then?

Then you press the on/off button, which is not the home button.

The on/off button is not true on/off. It's sleep/wake. No amount of pressing sleep/wake will fix a software error (since sleep and wake are both software functions). You need a hardware interrupt that can restart the OS. The current method is to press sleep & home. The GP's example of pressing the sleep & volume up and/or down would work.

My two year old's favorite button by JCS3 · 2011-01-13 03:46 · Score: 1

Personally I wouldn't mind the demise of the home button if only so that I could feel more confident handing my iPad to my two year old son knowing that he isn't going to exit out of the app that I pulled up for him. As it is now, the home button is his go to button, app boring>>>home button, tv show boring>>>home button, Dad trying to use the iPad>>>home button.

Special Needs by copponex · 2011-01-13 03:51 · Score: 1

While no fan of Apple, some of my family is involved in helping to educate children with special needs and they have found the iPads to be invaluable. But for kids who have trouble articulating more than one or two fingers at a time, or for people who are in fact missing fingers, adding too many multi-finger gestures as a requirement would suddenly make the device less usable.

Re:Special Needs by s73v3r · 2011-01-13 06:44 · Score: 1

I am going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that the percentage of people missing fingers, let alone those missing fingers on both hands, is quite infintesimal.

Android has its issues too. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:51 · Score: 0

Although the Android has certain usability advantages with its Back button, Search and Menu are oddballs (with none of Back's consistency), and non-physical implementations are really quite problematic (on the Galaxy, for example). Accidental triggering in one-handed operation is very common and annoying. Switching back to the iPhone's physical Home button is always a relief. I do wish the iPhone would implement the Back button as a gesture, however.

iPod Nano touchscreen model lacks home button by leamanc · 2011-01-13 03:52 · Score: 2

The latest iPod Nanos, with touchscreens, lack a home button. You press and hold (with one finger) anywhere on the screen to return to the home screen. I have gotten used to it, but would still prefer a real home button.

And if the Nano is any indication of what Steve likes, I don't think it's fewer buttons. The top of the Nano has one volume up button, one volume down button, and a "power" button (actually more of a "sleep the screen" button). I would have gladly taken a rocker switch for the volume (or even a dial!) and traded in one of those volume buttons for a real Home button.

--
:q!

Re:iPod Nano touchscreen model lacks home button by mbourgon · 2011-01-13 08:00 · Score: 1

Funny - not knowing what it was supposed to be, I played around until I could do it reliably. Based off that I thought it was a two-finger hold-then-swipe.

--
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Re:iPod Nano touchscreen model lacks home button by quacking+duck · 2011-01-13 12:58 · Score: 1

The latest iPod Nanos, with touchscreens, lack a home button. You press and hold (with one finger) anywhere on the screen to return to the home screen. I have gotten used to it, but would still prefer a real home button.
Not that it's directly applicable, but IIRC a big design flaw in some cars with push-start ignition is that to turn it off, the driver had to press and hold the ignition button for a few seconds (like soft-killing the power to a computer). In a couple of cases these cars apparently suffered from sudden acceleration problems, and in a panicked state some drivers weren't holding the button down for long enough to kill the engine.

People will be pissed by Cro+Magnon · 2011-01-13 03:55 · Score: 1

if they can't use one specific finger to control their iDevice.

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.

Marketing cliche by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 03:57 · Score: 0

It is not better, just different. Have some more Kool-Aid fanboi.

This is a bad idea. by Tei · 2011-01-13 04:01 · Score: 2

I have used the iPad extensivelly, so I can label myself as iPad poweruser. Enough stress on the machine do result on problems, like the concurrent installation of multiple Apps, or running anything after the 2 bigger games currently (memory swapping?). For the most part, the 99.99% of the time, you will not need a "reset" button, but having one (the home) is very handy!. But theres that 0.01% time wen you *NEED* the home button.

Removing the home button is like removing Enter, ESC and the power button, from a PC. hopping for the best... that you can always resort to the mouse for these 3 functions.

--

-Woof woof woof!

Re:This is a bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 08:18 · Score: 0

I agree with this as well as their inane decision to remove the functionality of the orientation lock. I purchased iPads for my in laws and my father and they all think turning that into a mute switch was a dumb-ass move on Steve's part. At least it should have been a software setting to maintain compatibility for the people who bought it liking that very function.
I've taught my dad who doesn't have the best hands that if he gets stuck, press the home button.
What's next after teaching hand gymnastics? Voice recognition and rubbing your elbow on the side?
Steve is an idiot.

What if you don't have five fingers? by thisisauniqueid · 2011-01-13 04:23 · Score: 1

What if you don't have five fingers?

Predicting the future... by HockeyPuck · 2011-01-13 04:52 · Score: 1

I'm predicting a future in which Job's says something akin to the "you're holding it wrong" but for multi-touch...

The "Two Finger" pinch...
The "Three Finger" pinch...
The "Four Finger" pinch...
The "Five Finger" pinch....

it's intuitively obvious what it does..

Don't forget the 1,2,3,4 and 5 finger tap, swipe (up and down)

I think he wants to do away with the keyboard and replace it with an obscure input method akin to the Palm Pilot's stylus input method. Want to type a "S", that would require a 2finger "clockwise" swipe followed by a 3 finger tap. Kind of link braille but with swipes and circles instead of just dots.

Try Swype by LibRT · 2011-01-13 05:02 · Score: 1

I've long been a blackberry guy, and partial to hard keyboards. When I got my android tablet, I _hated_ the soft keyboard. Until I installed swype - you simply trace from one letter to the next without lifting your finger. Once I got used to it I found it faster than my bb keyboard (and I'm pretty damn fast on the hard keyboard). It's great technology (no idea if it's available for iProducts).

No, they won't... stupid. by patniemeyer · 2011-01-13 05:10 · Score: 1

Just because they include another gesture to reach the home screen doesn't imply that they are going to remove the home button and I don't believe any credible source has suggested this... It's just a stupid extrapolation from the new gesture they've added.

The most important reason the home button will stay is just the obviousness... If you don't know what to do (and lots of both young and old people don't) they have a point of reference to get back to sanity... That button will not go away unless / until something equally obvious can take its place and a 5 fingered gesture certainly doesn't fill that role.

Pat

One actual good reason for this... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:15 · Score: 0

One actual good reason for this...:

The home button, being a mechanical switch, is one of the most common points of failure. Anything mechanical is going to have a limited number of cycles. I had to toss out my first iphone for just this reason.

That's an extra $100,000 for good old Steve.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:20 · Score: 0

....when you're selling in the millions, very penny off the physical product is a pile in your pocket.

Software is a NRE... hasn't anybody noticed that he's been selling overpriced cheap hardware for decades?

Bad idea by mrjb · 2011-01-13 05:31 · Score: 2

Not off-topic, bear with me. People whine about drawing with GIMP. To draw a line, all you need to do is to press the shift button while moving the mouse. The problem is, it's not *obvious* to most people that the shift key has that magical effect. One of the first thing many people want to do when using a new drawing program is to draw a line - not to dive into a manual to find out how to do it. The problem, of course, is that GIMP does not provide any visual clues that assist people in drawing a line- so in that respect it is not user friendly.

Five finger pinch instead of a home button? Same problem. You "just need to know" but if you happen not to, you won't have a home button. If there's no visual clue to certain parts of using a GUI, it's not user friendly.

I don't care that it's simple to press shift three times followed by caps lock twice and the computer enables its "Do what I want, not what I tell you" interface- if it's not obvious enough that people intuitively guess that key combination, it's useless.

So Steve, just keep that home button, OK?

--
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book

Re:Bad idea by SheeEttin · 2011-01-13 09:10 · Score: 1

he problem, of course, is that GIMP does not provide any visual clues that assist people in drawing a line- so in that respect it is not user friendly.
Have you tried reading the status bar? I quote: "Click to paint (try Shift for a straight line, Ctrl to pick a color)"
Re:Bad idea by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 11:30 · Score: 0

I before VI
Re:Bad idea by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 15:00 · Score: 0

People whine about drawing with GIMP. To draw a line, all you need to do is to press the shift button while moving the mouse.

You are kidding me. That feature has been there this whole time, I didn't need those damn add-ins after all?
Re:Bad idea by mrjb · 2011-01-13 21:24 · Score: 1

Have you tried reading the status bar? I quote: "Click to paint (try Shift for a straight line, Ctrl to pick a color)"
Actually, no I haven't. I don't recall ever having seen that message before though- how long has it been in there?

When I first started using GIMP (a good while ago) I was expecting to find a line tool but it wasn't there. Little did I know, at the time, that the pencil tool (which is used for freehand drawings in other graphics programs I'd seen) served the same purpose. I used Google to find out how to draw a line and haven't looked back since.

In all fairness, now that I've gotten used to how things work, I can now see and appreciate the power of the way things are currently done- but I think a "line" icon would been more obvious than hiding the line drawing functionality under the other tools. "Stroke selection" allows you to choose which tool you want to use to draw an outline; I don't see any reason why a line tool couldn't have worked in the same way, and I think it would have made the program more intuitive for starting users, just as keeping "home" button on a phone would.

--
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
Re:Bad idea by SheeEttin · 2011-01-14 09:44 · Score: 1

It's been there for as long as I can remember. At least somewhere in 2.6, probably.

In any case, there isn't a "line" tool because GIMP isn't a drawing tool, it's an "image manipulation" tool. ;)
(Of course, that doesn't mean you can't use it to draw. It's just not its primary function.)

Just like Android by corvax · 2011-01-13 05:36 · Score: 1

So Apple is copying Android "honeycomb" and allowing for no buttons at all? Will they allow for your own custom "soft button" setup?

It's the beginning of the end... by Grogan+The+Destroyer · 2011-01-13 05:43 · Score: 1

First they came for the Home Button, and no one spoke up...

A Potential Design Disaster by Apple+Acolyte · 2011-01-13 05:47 · Score: 1

I have to hope beyond hope that this is just a really stupid rumor. Removing the iconic bottom home button from the iOS line would be very destructive, and replacing it with a complicated multitouch gesture would be adding insult to injury. If this feature is currently in a pre-release of the iOS, I seriously don't expect it to become an interface standard let alone the replacement for the Home button. However, I have a theory about this rumor and what may actually happen to the Home button (if anything) that I'll share at the end of this post.

The iOS's physical home button is a hallmark of the design and common to the whole iOS platform. (The feature-loss suffering new touch nano can be raised as an exception, but it's not technically an iOS device and I hope it's not indicative of a trend.) People know the home button well. They know that you can leave a foreground app with a simple tap of the home button. Yes, it's gained more functionality in certain areas and is therefore a little more complex now, but the button still works largely the same way. Depriving users of that nearly universally known interface convention would create major problems for users and engender a metric ton of bad will among the modern Apple user base that is increasingly being lured by very good alternatives on other platforms. And the notion of replacing the Home button with a complex multi-touch screen gesture that no current user will be familiar with means Apple would be destroying the well established muscle memory of its customers for an essential device function. It's utterly ludicrous!

The Home button also has important functionality that can't be ripped out and replaced with some lame software-only, complex multitouch gesture. Even if the multitouch gesture is easy to perform, using five fingers to do something by way of software is still always going to be more difficult than using a single finger on a physical interface. Moreover, it would be a mistake of extreme, proportions - an epic, epic fail - to make going "Home" something you have to do by pressing the screen in an unusual way. My mind can't even fully wrap around all the usability problems such a scheme would introduce. It would complicate the user interface considerably. The screen and multi-touch paradigm are already used for so many different things in software. Also, have you ever seen how users interact with multitouch in certain apps? There are visualizer apps that encourage the user to use multiple fingers. Sometimes users will just play around with the device by placing all five fingers on the screen in various ways. Does Apple really think it's a good idea to make that into a home screen gesture? If the company does, I say look out, and buy stock in competing device manufacturers.

Anyway, I'm tired of writing on this topic. Apple may be experimenting with this concept, but I seriously doubt it will replace the Home button. However, it is true that the Home button can be a source of mechanical breakdown. We also know that Apple likes to replace physical buttons in unconventional ways (look at their modern Mac mouse and trackpad designs). It's very possible in my opinion that the Home button will be replaced in the future, but it won't be taken off the bottom of the device. The physical nature of the button may go away. They may change over to a pseudo click button like their modern desktop mouse/trackpad designs. Or, I don't see why Apple couldn't move to a fully non-mechanical capacitance based button like the iPod 3G had from way back when. I loved that iPod. The Home button may change in physical form, but unless Apple's designers and management have lost their minds it won't disappear from the bottom of the iDevices completely.

--
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so

Re:A Potential Design Disaster by Apple+Acolyte · 2011-01-13 06:02 · Score: 1

I forgot to mention that I just started using my brother's Samsung Intercept, the first Android phone I've had any real user time on. And while I found the extra hardware capacitance and mechanical buttons useful, as a primarily iOS user (for my casual gadgets) I found the change in interface jarring. The large enter button in the middle of the layout had me trying to use it as a Home button just because of my muscle memory. The triangle back button isn't as elegant and harder to find. And I prefer my on-off button to be a small nub on the top of the device instead of on the face. I know that's largely because I've been such a heavy user of the iOS, but its interface works really well and I'm very accustomed to it. Changing it in such a fundamental way by removing the bottom Home button is idiotic.
For those who are curious, my impression of the Android platform so far is that it's generally less polished and less elegant than the iOS platform, but on the other hand Android is definitely more powerful and very satisfying to my geek side in the way that it exposes much more of the technical layer to the user. I also respect the platform's openness. I probably won't be switching to Android from iOS any time soon, unless, perhaps Apple borks the iOS interface by removing the Home button!

--
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so

What Next - Remove The Power Button? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 05:59 · Score: 0

If they remove the power button, how will I reboot the phone if it becomes unresponsive?

Will I have to resort to removing the battery??

Oh wait...

Re:What Next - Remove The Power Button? by HTH+NE1 · 2011-01-13 08:06 · Score: 1

I have had my iPod Touch's screen be unresponsive at the critical time of needing to pause playback when someone comes into my cubicle. The home button is still responsive to stop video, but for audio I've had to either turn the device off with the power button or yank out the headphones (which automatically pauses all playback).
I still like the iPod Shuffle with real buttons over the all the touch-screen models for music playback in a car via aux-in. I can feel what I'm doing and can switch tracks, change volume, pause and resume all without taking my eyes off the road.
I prefer hard buttons for critical functions where responsiveness is key.

--
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?

What a stupid idea. by blueocean43 · 2011-01-13 06:15 · Score: 1

A five finger pinch? Surely I am not the only person who holds the phone in one hand and navigates with my thumb? I don't want to have to use my phone two handed, i might be carrying something.

Re:No home button? Yes. Multitouch reset? No. by Kotoku · 2011-01-13 06:15 · Score: 1

Well then you just pull the battery! ...oh.

--
AnimePapers.org: Anime Wallpapers Handled With Care

WebOS handles this neatly... by RealGene · 2011-01-13 06:18 · Score: 1

The Palm Pre simply requires an upward flick to return from an app.

--
Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.

Re:WebOS handles this neatly... by Funk_dat69 · 2011-01-13 08:25 · Score: 1

Actually, the Palm Pre has a 'Home' button of sorts, they removed it for the Pre Plus. On both, you can still use the up swipe, or back gesture to get back 'home'.
I kind of prefer the home button myself, even though its a bit redundant.

--
FUNK!
Re:WebOS handles this neatly... by RealGene · 2011-01-13 08:42 · Score: 1

Yah, I have the Pre Plus, and the home button location is now a swipe area. The only thing I've found that takes two hands on the Pre Plus is sliding open the keypad.

--
Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.

The Apple ideal by morgauxo · 2011-01-13 06:25 · Score: 1

Someday Apple will finally get around to what it has always been striving towards... the one button interface. I can see it now, Jobs explaining how everything a fanboi could need is all available through a series of short and long clicks of the iButton... http://alturl.com/np7pw

Too bad that Mr Spock by bugs2squash · 2011-01-13 06:26 · Score: 1

Has already patented the two-finger "sleep" pinch.

--
Nullius in verba

whack home... by lotho+brandybuck · 2011-01-13 06:54 · Score: 1

how about it just goes to a home screen if it senses it's been whacked on something hard?

Jobs hates buttons? by 517714 · 2011-01-13 06:56 · Score: 1

I guess that would explain those mock turtlenecks he always wears.

--
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.

Don't you need DFU by sean.peters · 2011-01-13 07:12 · Score: 1

... to do stuff like upgrade the software/firmware of the device? I don't think they can remove it, but frankly, I don't really think they can remove the home button either.

Here's a hand gesture for you Steve! by 517714 · 2011-01-13 07:16 · Score: 1

How is my seventh grade shop teacher going to do a five or even four finger gesture?

Seriously,substituting arcane non-intutive gestures for a button is not an improvement when it makes the device impossible or more difficult to use for some portion of the population. The most compelling news stories of the iPad's use were in enabling handicapped greater independence, will that be going away? With baby boomers hitting retirement limited hand mobility will become an increasing issue. I hope that Apple will remember that having one button on the mouse meant only needing to use one finger.

--
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.

Rumor is a mismash of truth and speculation by DarkJC · 2011-01-13 07:40 · Score: 1

This home button rumor sounds like someone found out about the multitouch gestures for switching applications and going back to the home screen and decided that it MUST be because the home button is getting removed.

The reality is that these gestures are probably there to compliment the functionality of the home button, and make certain actions faster than using the button to do them. But just like keyboard shortcuts, gestures should never be the ONLY way to do things. The home button will stay for those who need to intuitively learn the device. It's the same principle as the "multitasking" dock. You can multitask in IOS without ever even knowing the dock exists. It's the same way with these gestures.

Well, there you go, Bart by pablodiazgutierrez · 2011-01-13 08:02 · Score: 1

Good luck to all Simpsons' characters using an iPad next season!

--

To do list for Windows

Re:This is a GREAT idea by H_Fisher · 2011-01-13 08:08 · Score: 1

It's for all these reasons you mentioned that at least having an alternative to get you "Home" is an excellent idea. That one button is both important and fragile.

I bought a 1st gen. iPod Touch about five months after they came out. In using it, I regularly double-tapped the "Home" button to get at the audio controls without having to fully unlock the device. Result? The "Home" button stopped working a month after the warranty ran out. And since I wasn't "responsible" enough to have bought the AppleCare plan, Apple wasn't interested in doing anything but shrugging and offering me a laughably small discount (something like 10 percent, IIRC) if I traded in the "broken" one.

Do a search and you'll find a lot of people with perfectly good iPods, iPhones, and now iPads that are almost impossible to use normally because one button died.

As for "hoping for the best," the touch screen != a mouse. You can still use a PC without the mouse. But touch screen or "Home" button, the story is the same -- if one dies on you, the device is just about worthless. Say what you want, but I think this would be an excellent design change.

slashdot's been punked by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 08:13 · Score: 0

Wow - rumor as fact. What faggots here believed this? Ohhhhhhh ....

Fuck you slashdot - you suck cock.

Accessibility, much? by LukeWebber · 2011-01-13 08:52 · Score: 1

I have a blind friend with an iPhone. Apparently, they're surprisingly popular with the "blindies" (his word), partly due to their superior, built-in screen-reading capabilities. I can't wait to hear what he thinks of THIS stupidity.
Steve: Give us more buttons, not fewer. But no, we know that ain't gonna happen.

The button is already getting overloaded by caywen · 2011-01-13 09:57 · Score: 1

It's already getting overloaded with non-intuitive stuff. Double-press the button and you get the task pane. Hold it down and you get voice commands or whatever you have configured for it. These are basically already gestures. Are they going to add a 3-press gesture?

Also, that home button is just not ergonomic. A better placement would be on the upper left or right side. Either-handed people could hit it with either their index finger or thumb instead of using their other hand, or regripping the device (and potentially dropping it).

I'd welcome a gesture-based replacement.

I can guarantee that this is not going to happen by PhunkySchtuff · 2011-01-13 10:03 · Score: 1

I can guarantee that this is not going to happen for exactly the same reason that Apple, whilst supporting a right-click context sensitive menu, discourage developers from using the context menu as the only place where those menu options can be found - discoverability and intuitiveness.

Apple will add these multitouch guestures, but the signature single button on iOS devices isn't going anywhere. Sure, were it to vanish, experienced users of the platform will adapt pretty quickly, but new users will be left out in the cold.

--
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne

They should be adding buttons, not removing them. by MotherErich · 2011-01-13 10:11 · Score: 1

This really seems like Apple is taking a step backwards to me. While the closed system of the iDevices does provide a relatively bug free experience, there are bugs. And when it doubt, home button. I used to an iPhone user and loved it when I had it, then I switched to Android, which I really love. Recently I got an iPad for work and it has really surprised me how cumbersome it is to use by comparison, largely due to the lack of permanent buttons like Home and Back. I really can't imagine how much more cumbersome it will be to use once the home button is gone. By the way, what's the deal with tech companies starting out as innovative and ending up with their head in their asses? Steve, are you worried that you missed something up there the last go around in the late 90s?

--
You have to be smarter than the machine you're working with.

Can we stop pretending? by PyroMosh · 2011-01-13 13:15 · Score: 1

Can we please stop pretending that major usability or engineering decisions have anything to do with Apple's CEO?

I am fairly certain that he is paid to run the company, and that Apple pays people to make these kinds of decisions.

Steve Jobs is an executive. He is charismatic and gives presentations for major product launches too. But he doesn't make every trivial decision for every Apple product.

--
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.

everytime ur machine hangs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-13 13:41 · Score: 0

go to applecare
XD
we have fingers but not buttons.....
ohoh.....

No place like Home by Dabido · 2011-01-14 00:13 · Score: 1

*Clicks ruby slippers together.*

Dorothy: There's no place like home. No place like home. No place like home. OH, NO! It's not working, Toto!

Tin Man: Here, let me help you Dorothy with these multi touch gestures!

Dorothy: Get your Friggin' hands off my boobs, Tin Man! You freakin' heartless bastard!

--
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)

Read what you wrote. Then think about it... by RichiH · 2011-01-14 01:16 · Score: 1

> Ever used a volume knob before?

Yes. Turning clockwise makes it louder, i.e. make volume go _up_. But it scrolls _down_ on an iPod.

Slashdot Mirror

Apple May Remove the Home Button On the Next IPad

329 comments