Magnetic Brain Stimulation Makes Learning Easier

Terminology is relative by tm2b · 2011-02-01 19:05 · Score: 1

I know what it means in the medical sense, but still - directly manipulating my brain is not what I would term "non-invasive..."

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"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny

Re:Terminology is relative by CODiNE · 2011-02-02 01:31 · Score: 1

Terminology certainly is relative.
As in Zoolander...
"The FILES are INSIDE the computer!"

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Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Re:Terminology is relative by Cryacin · 2011-02-02 01:59 · Score: 1

Oooohhhhh Jimmy Cracked corn and I don't care, Jimmy Cracked corn and I don't care, cause the master's gone away!

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Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
Re:Terminology is relative by ElizabethGreene · 2011-02-02 04:13 · Score: 1

It is just a little bitty Brain EMP. What could possibly go wrong?
How long before we have cartoon style helmets that radically increase cognitive abilities? Want!
I would suggest we develop a protocol to stimulate the pleasure centers and lower inhibitions, but ethanol seems to work okay for now.

Noninvasive? No. Physically noninvasive? Maybe. by intellitech · 2011-02-01 19:06 · Score: 1

Yes, the researchers are not jabbing a needle into your skull, but that doesn't mean TFA should refer to the process as "noninvasive." This method of studying the brain is as "noninvasive" as an electron's position and momentum may be simultaneously known.

--
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.

Re:Noninvasive? No. Physically noninvasive? Maybe. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 02:46 · Score: 0

Non-invasive means that the patients skin is not broken in order to perform the operation. It's a commonly used and understood medical term.

Alternate technology by moteyalpha · 2011-02-01 19:06 · Score: 1

TMS is dandy, but liquor is quicker.

News? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:07 · Score: 0

Really? News? Where?!

Re:News? by skids · 2011-02-02 05:21 · Score: 1

This isn't such a bad dup. If it keeps getting duped, eventually the slashdot editors will dup it while wearing the gadget, and will have a greater probability of realizing it is a dup next time. So it's self-limiting.

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Someone had to do it.

Sooo... by dmomo · 2011-02-01 19:13 · Score: 4, Funny

Can I just wear a hat with magnets in it? Or would that kind of be like stabbing yourself in the face and calling it acupuncture?

Re:Sooo... by Thing+1 · 2011-02-02 01:51 · Score: 1

That's a great way to start the morning! Stab yourself in the face and, chances are, that will be the worst pain you experience that day -- so the day can only improve!

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I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:Sooo... by sorak · 2011-02-02 02:42 · Score: 1

Can I just wear a hat with magnets in it? Or would that kind of be like stabbing yourself in the face and calling it acupuncture?
I suspect that some kind of homeopathic learning helmet will soon hit the market, pointing to this study as proof that "magnets make smart"
Re:Sooo... by smooth+wombat · 2011-02-02 03:10 · Score: 1

Please, please, I'm begging you, don't give those quacks any MORE stupid ideas. It's bad enough when you ask them why people who are subject to MRIs aren't the picture of health yet a bracelet can somehow cure your ills that they expel nonsense about this, that or other thing which has no bearing on reality.
We don't need to see these devices popping up at $29.99 a pop and having people wander around with what is effectively a colander on their heads.

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We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Re:Sooo... by Nursie · 2011-02-02 04:31 · Score: 2

"We don't need to see these devices popping up at $29.99 a pop and having people wander around with what is effectively a colander on their heads."
We don't?
Really?
I'm totally for this plan. In fact I think it would be awesome to see credulous morons wandering around with colanders on their heads all the time.
Re:Sooo... by theshowmecanuck · 2011-02-02 04:37 · Score: 1

Hey I bought one. And I can run through mazes ten times faster now.

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-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Re:Sooo... by dmomo · 2011-02-02 04:59 · Score: 1

Yeah, but if stimulate the entire brain, certainly you're just as likely to stimulate the "idiot" areas too. So, those magnetic hats we're gonna see? It's not that they don't work. THEY DO! It's just that they cancel themselves out. Or maybe it would be more of an idiot testing hat. Those with more "idiot" areas to stimulate will become even more moronic.

Not really noninvasive, but okay. by intellitech · 2011-02-01 19:13 · Score: 0

Yes, the researchers are not jabbing a needle into your skull, but that doesn't mean TFA should refer to the process as "noninvasive." From my perspective, any external process that changes anything in or on my body is invasive, including flipping the on/off switch to various regions of the brain. This method of studying the brain is as "noninvasive" as an electron's position and momentum may be simultaneously known.

--
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.

Re:Not really noninvasive, but okay. by disambiguated · 2011-02-02 00:54 · Score: 2

From my perspective, any external process that changes anything in or on my body is invasive...
By this definition there is no such thing as an (effective) noninvasive procedure. Anything meeting this definition of noninvasive would be utterly pointless.
Re:Not really noninvasive, but okay. by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2011-02-02 08:58 · Score: 1

From my perspective, any external process that changes anything in or on my body is invasive, including flipping the on/off switch to various regions of the brain.
In medical speak, "noninvasive" means they didn't have to cut you open or poke holes in you when they tweaked your innards.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

As seen on TV by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:14 · Score: 0

So those magnetic bracelets they sell on TV late at night are not actually %100 bunk? Somehow, I see a new infomercial on the horizon.

Re:As seen on TV by lxs · 2011-02-02 04:49 · Score: 1

Of course they are. They show a shocking lack of anatomical knowledge. Now if they were magnetic headbands...
BRB founding company. How does " Magnasmart" sound?

JIT by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:15 · Score: 0

Just in time for Giffords' rehabilitation!

Use in schools? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:19 · Score: 0

And is the learning permanent or temporary?

I saw a special on this on science/discovery -- and a guy was able to draw remarkedly better but only for 15 minutes...

first by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:20 · Score: 0

no!

derr by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:21 · Score: 0

i thik i ned this

magnets also good for... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:26 · Score: 0

just about every ailment you can think of... flat feet, impotance, infertility, nausea, head aches, joint pain, muscle weakness... yessireebob, step right up and try and buy these magical healling magnets... now with Aptitude Booster!!(tm)

iTMS + iPAD + PMS = 0 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:29 · Score: 0

The article also mentions interruptions TMS (iTMS)--I'm sure this will complement my wife's iPAD during her PMS.

Obligatory x2 by Black+Parrot · 2011-02-01 19:30 · Score: 4, Funny

If somebody can find an xkcd about Pinky and the Brain, we can wrap this one right up.

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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade

Re:Obligatory x2 by Cryacin · 2011-02-02 02:01 · Score: 2

What aww we ganna do tonight bwain?

Just put the damn helmet on.

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Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck

Obligatory link by jasno · 2011-02-01 19:35 · Score: 1

http://open-rtms.sourceforge.net/

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http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/

Re:Obligatory link by lxs · 2011-02-02 04:52 · Score: 1

Weaksauce. Why not go all the way and do some DIY trepanation?

Better get some TMS! by SnakeEater251 · 2011-02-01 19:37 · Score: 1

that temporarily activates – or inactivates

Looks like OP can use that technology...

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-FB

Smarter rats by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:38 · Score: 0

While smarter rats probably aren't high on anyone's wish list,

Speak for yourself: I'd appreciate the help in trying to take over the world.

(Preferably before dawn).

Re:Smarter rats by heathen_01 · 2011-02-02 02:40 · Score: 1

R.O.U.S?
Re:Smarter rats by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-15 18:12 · Score: 0

The problem with rats is that they are already smart enough to survive in urban environments comfortably. They'll be taking our jobs before long.

TMS by SnakeEater251 · 2011-02-01 19:38 · Score: 1

Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a technology that temporarily activates – or inactivates...

"Inactivates"? Looks like the OP could use it.

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-FB

Oh dear god, have they learned nothing? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:41 · Score: 0

Do they not remember NIMH? We must stop this experimentation on Rats before they learn to use more powerful tools!

Magnets... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 19:42 · Score: 0

...how do they work?

Although I'm not a fan of experiments on animals.. by Casandro · 2011-02-01 19:43 · Score: 1

... I'd consider paying for the National Institute of Menthal Health to do those experiments.... :)

iTBS? by SanityInAnarchy · 2011-02-01 19:45 · Score: 1

From the caption on the pretty picture in TFA:

Brain slice of the frontal cortex of a rat showing nerve cells before and after treatment with the iTBS protocol

When I read that, the very first thing I thought of was this ITBS, which pretty much just made learning more obnoxious.

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Don't thank God, thank a doctor!

Caution is in order in my opinion by shadowofwind · 2011-02-01 19:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

The body has evolved to reward beneficial behavior with feelings of pleasure, and to punish detrimental behavior with pain. Its an imperfect system, and it can go awry. But start mucking around with the feedback mechanism, bypassing it by stimulating the brain directly, and you can get into a lot of trouble. Similarly, other aspects of brain functionality tend to be as strong or weak as they are for reasons that have evolved over a long period of time. Almost anything that can be done to stimulate some aspect of brain function is at the expense of something else. The tradeoffs are many and poorly understood, and harmful effects aren't always very easy to detect externally. If it feels good enough, or produces compelling enough short term benefits, how does a person resist the temptation to do something that may have non-obvious long term penalties? By altering your brain function, your altering the one thing that is capable of warning you when you're going in a bad direction. In that regard its a highly unstable undertaking. A person can try to add a safeguard by handing the reins over to another person, like is done with prescriptions for therapeutic drugs. But that other person's judgment is almost unavoidably colored by their own self interest.

Medical technology is great for stuff like repairing busted knees. But if a person adds up all the human carnage caused by devices aimed at helping or correcting brain function, I wonder how its stacks up against the benefits.

Yes of course some people are going to explore this sort of thing anyway. I'm not in favor of banning it, and maybe I'm not even in favor of regulating it. But I still think its worth pause for thought.

Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by disambiguated · 2011-02-02 04:29 · Score: 1

I agree with what you said, and I think it's dangerous to go messing with stuff we don't understand, but... It's also possible that there are relatively simple things that can be done that are just simply an improvement, with no side effects, no trade-offs, and no long term surprises. Why? Because even though, as you say, the body has evolved over a long period of time, natural selection has to work at the level of the genes. At that level, small changes can have many consequences, and usually involve trade-offs. But natural selection doesn't have (easy) access to the kinds of mechanisms being explored here. If there were simple improvements involving magnetism (or whatever) that had no undesirable effects, natural selection might simply never discover them. But that doesn't mean that we can't.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by iamnotaclown · 2011-02-02 05:11 · Score: 1

Relevant to your argument: http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 05:11 · Score: 0

I agree that in principle there are probably paths to real improved function that can be found technologically, that are unavoidably missed by biological evolution.
Personally I doubt that magnetism is one of those things. Its a form of stimulation, different from other kinds that have been tried, but not entirely different.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by hawkfish · 2011-02-02 05:52 · Score: 1

A person can try to add a safeguard by handing the reins over to another person, like is done with prescriptions for therapeutic drugs. But that other person's judgment is almost unavoidably colored by their own self interest.
Indeed.

--
You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 06:28 · Score: 0

I want to start by asking if you, yourself, are a neuroscientist or affiliated with the field. If not, are you at least, in an HONEST opinion, well informed about the field? I ask this not to accuse anything, but simply to understand the perspective.
I am a Ph.D. student in neuroengineering, so I have what I would consider to be at least a moderately well informed opinion. Your argument seems to be seated in the idea that brain functioning, at least for most of our life, is fixed. That the functionality of anatomically different areas of the brain is guided by evolution. This is true, and yet untrue. Most areas of the brain, while not exhibiting strongly plasticity (morphological, connectivity, and functionality changes) are typically highly adaptive. I study the vision system and somatosensory system in mammals. In general neural activity isn't guided by explicit behaviorally relevant cues; up until cortical areas most sensory systems, for example, do not respond exclusively to behaviorally relevant input stimulus features (what? where? how fast? etc.).
TMS does a number of things, many of them studied, none of them particularly well understood, and in general mostly useless. With a strong enough system placed in JUST the right spot, you can cause muscle twitches. People of course immediately thought that this could be used to guide prosthetics. The response is so nonspecific, so random, and so hard to elicit that the effect is in all practical senses useless. The article (did not have time to consume the literature) claims specificity in location, but TMS really isn't that great for that. The trans-cranial part severely limits your spatial resolution.
I'm curious, though, about your statement "almost anything that can be done to stimulate some aspect of brain function is at the expense of something else." I cannot contextualize that into something that makes sense. We routinely electrically stimulate various parts of the brain, with no effects like you are implying. We don't somehow harm anything upstream or downstream, as far as any analysis by any group can determine. Are there ways in which you can stimulate that DO harm the brain? Of course. But there are also ways in which I can hit you with a 2x4, some of which you won't notice and some of which will do you great harm.
I guess in general I take issue with your implication that neural functioning, as a whole, is guided solely by behavioral implications. Fear and reward-based training are high-level things, and any neuroscientist that tells you what they do on a system, circuit, or neuron-level are at best being optimistic about our current knowledge. You can induce a myriad number of functionality changes with no appreciable changes in behavioral outcomes. In that case, have we "worsened" the condition or somehow erased evolution?
For the sake of discourse on this, and my general disappointment in public perception of neuroscience (this is not directed at you, but the public in general), I would love to hear other opinions on this.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by Paul+Fernhout · 2011-02-02 07:19 · Score: 1

http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article16.aspx
http://www.healthpromoting.com/article/breaking-free-dietary-pleasure-trap
And also: "Supernormal Stimuli: How Primal Urges Overran Their Evolutionary Purpose"
http://books.google.com/books?id=HQlg3rQquUoC
All to support your concern...
Another aspect, that animals may turn to addictive-seeming behavior under stress:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
See also Larry Niven's fictional "Droud":
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=207

--
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by deathcloset · 2011-02-02 08:12 · Score: 1

Not to oppose caution, but since I believe your attitude is older than science itself, In reply, I'm just going to quote another slashdotter's comment...

"'you can't improve upon the performance of your brain and your body without longterm tradeoffs'

i hate that kind of defeatist, "nature/god knows best" attitude. everything you have right now is thanks to people who believed they could do better than nature, and they did. yes, you shouldn't do lines of coke to be better at your job, because that is a hack. it doesn't mean we can't make ourselves truly better, without "overclocking" and burning out. a candle that burns twice as bright could burn out twice as fast, or it could simply be a fucking light bulbthat lasts 5 years."

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1855778&cid=34136968
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by shadowofwind · 2011-02-02 09:37 · Score: 1

The essence of science is to form an idea, try it out, take an honest look at what the results are, and then modify accordingly. Nearly everything in life can be viewed that way, to me 'science' is almost synonymous with intelligence.
I agree that the 'natural' status quo is a poor god. We are a part of nature, and using our intelligence to make nature better IS natural. But after we try something the next step is to look honestly at what follows and take it into account, or else we're not doing science. We do have quite a bit of long term data on drug use, neurofeedback, and electrical stimulation, enough to inform a qualified, tentative opinion on magnetic stimulation. Furthermore, its apparent that financial and emotional 'self-interest' has had an influence on the interpretation of data in a couple of these other areas - we have a kind of data on that also.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by tjhart85 · 2011-02-02 10:27 · Score: 1

Natural selection hasn't gotten rid of headaches, but an aspirin can.

Yes, most anything involving the brain involves some form of trade-off, but you know what, so does everything else in life. If I eat something that tastes good (or is just convenient), then I most likely trade taste/convenience for massive calories.
If I jog to keep my body in better shape, I run the risk of tripping on something and breaking my leg (or just having a heart attack).

As you said, yes, we do not really understand the brain, but we know that on the whole if we give someone these drugs they cause this effect (in general). If we put a magnet in this place, at this strength, it'll have this effect. Also, you said that medical tech. is good for fixing things like broken bones? That was also simple trial and error. If we hold the bone this way, it heals better. If we ..... it works better, etc... These ideas didn't just happen. It took trial and error (much like all technology AND natural selection).
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by repapetilto · 2011-02-02 11:35 · Score: 1

Well like you I also didn't read the actual paper so really don't know what I'm talking about, but from the article it sounds like they are saying that whatever TMS protocol they are using is resulting in less active cortical interneurons. I'm also relatively unfamiliar with TMS but the way I understand it is that the magnetic fields are pushing and pulling ions to induce action potentials in some subset of neurons that are susceptible to it for whatever reason (like stimulating at the resonant frequency of a neural circuit). So from that I'd guess that the reported loss of Gabaergic activity is probably due to some kind of negative feedback. One obvious "expense" here would be an increased risk of seizures due to aberrant LTP. I'd also guess you would also be uncoupling firing from the signals of upstream neurons, which could lead to LDP and possible loss of other important connections leading to development of anxiety triggers and the like. Actually at the last SfN i got my radial nerve TMSed at some vendor booth but they wouldn't do my cortex for insurance reasons. Like I said though, didn't read the paper and don't know much about TMS. It's pretty well known though that the brain limits the amount of plasticity in favor of increased stability. Thats why there are multiple mechanisms in place to prevent CNS neurons from regenerating after injury in organisms with complex brains (ie anything more related to us than a zebrafish). I guess my point is that there probably is some risk involved in messing with brain function, but that doesn't mean that if a pathology is involved we can't be better at performing the risk/benefit calculation better than evolution.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by shadowofwind · 2011-02-02 14:01 · Score: 1

I want to start by asking if you, yourself, are a neuroscientist or affiliated with the field. If not, are you at least, in an HONEST opinion, well informed about the field? I ask this not to accuse anything, but simply to understand the perspective.
I have worked as an engineer with neurofeedback, and have additional peripheral awareness of the neurology field in relation to medical imaging. On these topics I would consider myself well informed relative to the average /. reader, and not well informed relative to someone like yourself. I've got a couple of reasons to think that I have a useful perspective even relative to subject matter experts however. One is that I've paid a lot of attention to the way the motives of researchers affects their work over the course of several years, the way information is pursued or overlooked depending on funding imperatives and other factors. I've seen things that concern and disturb me in the neurofeedback field, as well as in hospitals in more mainstream treatment areas. Additionally, I have some visibility into my own mental function in a couple of areas that tend to be more subconscious for most people. From this I know that some important processes are extremely hard to measure, and may be regarded as unreal by people who are not aware of them and have not tried or succeeded in measuring them in a reliable way. So when somebody says that they have detected no change or effect as the result of some stimulus, in some cases it looks to me that a change is likely but is just not something that they know how to look for.

Your argument seems to be seated in the idea that brain functioning, at least for most of our life, is fixed....
I agree with you that its not fixed, and I generally agree with your other points also.
Maybe here's a better way to try to make my original point....If a person wants something, and is willing to pay for it, its likely that they will be able to find someone else who is willing to sell it to them. Even if 9 of 10 neurologists are highly qualified, empathetic, and professionally objective, there is still the one who is willing to take risks with other people's health for a profit, and the person seeking a dangerous treatment will find them. So my message was really intended for technologically optimistic people who are not experts, but who may be interested in neurofeedback, or finding someone to prescribe a medication, or down the road may be interested in messing with magnetic fields. For your own sake be careful. I don't have a beef with honest scientists, including those experimenting with magnetic fields. But as a medical student, you must be aware that many people in that field are less than completely conscientious, and this will probably become even more obvious once you get out into industry. In my view, the brain is an intimate enough instrument that an otherwise unremarkable degree of dishonesty and subjectivity is dangerous for a person working in that field.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by dudpixel · 2011-02-02 14:30 · Score: 1

[snip] everything you have right now is thanks to people who believed they could do better than nature, and they did.
hmmm, really? I'm not convinced - I'll need examples...
Find me any of man's inventions that is in any way better than nature. Sure, we've made many things that assist us. But better? I disagree.

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This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by dudpixel · 2011-02-02 14:34 · Score: 1

Headaches are almost always a symptom of a bigger problem. Sure, aspirin will remove the pain of the headache, but probably wont remove the root cause (although your body may well recover during that time).
Pain isn't a negative. It serves a very important purpose. Removing the pain is not necessarily an improvement. Its more of a work-around and it can definitely have negative consequences.

--
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
Re:Caution is in order in my opinion by shadowofwind · 2011-02-02 16:25 · Score: 1

One application of neurofeedback is used to treat migraines. Various chemical stimulants and depressants are also used for that of course. Migraines are a serious, life wrecking problem for some people, so maybe the benefits of the treatments outweigh the dangers and drawbacks. At the same time I also think the migraine cycles are the body's way of trying to cope with a deeper problem, and I see some reason to believe that cures can have serious but non-obvious bad effects when they counteract the headache cycles without understanding what's driving them. This starts to get a bit wishy-washy though, since I'm concerned about dangers which almost border on metaphysical. For most people, if the debilitating pain is gone, that's a welcome improvement, and I can't argue with that. But I would argue that the subtler effects are important enough to at least keep an open mind about recognizing them.

Research abstracts by FleaPlus · 2011-02-01 19:48 · Score: 4, Informative

It wasn't linked to in the article, so here's the actual abstracts for the two papers:

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/31/4/1193
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2010.07425.x/abstract

Theta-Burst Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Alters Cortical Inhibition

Human cortical excitability can be modified by repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS), but the cellular mechanisms are largely unknown. Here, we show that the pattern of delivery of theta-burst stimulation (TBS) (continuous versus intermittent) differently modifies electric activity and protein expression in the rat neocortex. Intermittent TBS (iTBS), but not continuous TBS (cTBS), enhanced spontaneous neuronal firing and EEG gamma band power. Sensory evoked cortical inhibition increased only after iTBS, although both TBS protocols increased the first sensory response arising from the resting cortical state. Changes in the cortical expression of the calcium-binding proteins parvalbumin (PV) and calbindin D-28k (CB) indicate that changes in spontaneous and evoked cortical activity following rTMS are in part related to altered activity of inhibitory systems. By reducing PV expression in the fast-spiking interneurons, iTBS primarily affected the inhibitory control of pyramidal cell output activity, while cTBS, by reducing CB expression, more likely affected the dendritic integration of synaptic inputs controlled by other classes of inhibitory interneurons. Calretinin, the third major calcium-binding protein expressed by another class of interneurons was not affected at all. We conclude that different patterns of TBS modulate the activity of inhibitory cell classes differently, probably depending on the synaptic connectivity and the preferred discharge pattern of these inhibitory neurons.

Continuous and intermittent transcranial magnetic theta burst stimulation modify tactile learning performance and cortical protein expression in the rat differently

Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS) can modulate cortical excitability in a stimulus-frequency-dependent manner. Two kinds of theta burst stimulation (TBS) [intermittent TBS (iTBS) and continuous TBS (cTBS)] modulate human cortical excitability differently, with iTBS increasing it and cTBS decreasing it. In rats, we recently showed that this is accompanied by changes in the cortical expression of proteins related to the activity of inhibitory neurons. Expression levels of the calcium-binding protein parvalbumin (PV) and of the 67-kDa isoform of glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD67) were strongly reduced following iTBS, but not cTBS, whereas both increased expression of the 65-kDa isoform of glutamic acid decarboxylase. In the present study, to investigate possible functional consequences, we applied iTBS and cTBS to rats learning a tactile discrimination task. Conscious rats received either verum or sham rTMS prior to the task. Finally, to investigate how rTMS and learning effects interact, protein expression was determined for cortical areas directly involved in the task and for those either not, or indirectly, involved. We found that iTBS, but not cTBS, improved learning and strongly reduced cortical PV and GAD67 expression. However, the combination of learning and iTBS prevented this effect in those cortical areas involved in the task, but not in unrelated areas. We conclude that the improved learning found following iTBS is a result of the interaction of two effects, possibly in a homeostatic manner: a general weakening of inhibition mediated by the fast-spiking interneurons, and re-established activity in those neurons specifically involved in the learning task, leading to enhanced contrast between learning-induced and background activity.

PTSD? by markass530 · 2011-02-01 19:51 · Score: 1

As an Iraq vet with it (mild case), who has friends who suffer a lot more, I hope this can offer some hope.

Re:PTSD? by nido · 2011-02-02 02:39 · Score: 2

As an Iraq vet with [PTSD] (mild case), who has friends who suffer a lot more, I hope this can offer some hope.
you'd be interested in my other comment:
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1976324&cid=35077664
Also see David Feinstein, PhD's report about what they had to go through to get Congress to fund a study at Walter Reed.

--
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
Re:PTSD? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 07:51 · Score: 0

I've had good results using lsd-25 and mushrooms in a support setting to allow space to deal with the mental issues of PTSD and using marijuana to deal with any physical issues that arise out of prolonged physical inhibition (reduced movement) of certain areas due to the mental blocks.
Mushrooms can be milder than lsd-25, however it has higher concentrations of toxins which if you're sensitive can become a problem.
How you use a tool determines the outcome you have.

When can I buy a $$$ brain stimulator? by lyk · 2011-02-01 19:51 · Score: 1

Somehow I have never fallen for the magnetic wrist bands, insoles or other magnetizing, energy-stimulating devices even though 'scientific studies' claim they work.

"Activates?" "Stimulates?" Real articles please. by interkin3tic · 2011-02-01 19:52 · Score: 2

Can we get the actual paper(s) linked to in the summary rather than just this "Scientists somewhere found something cool and that's about all we'll tell you" crap? Occasionally, I'm interested in details that are lacking. For anyone interested, Trippe et al 2011 J neurosci and Mix et al Euro J neurosci seem to be the articles they're talking about.

Having said that, they're behind paywalls, and people understandably hate that too...

I've seen a few papers like this one that suggests magnetic fields cause new neurons to form in rats. The research here suggests it "modifies electric activity and protein expression in the rat neocortex." I don't see why the two would be mutually exclusive when it comes to learning in the short term, but I'd also be interested in what the longer term effects are. Skimming over the newer article, it only tracked the rats 7 days, the paper about neurogenesis seems to show effects after nine weeks.

As I said, I only skimmed the articles, and I don't really have a clear understanding of the brain architecture, but it will be interesting if this treatment proves to have short and long term beneficial effects, or at least good short term effects and no bad effects from the increased neurons in the brain.

If this turns out to be a "flowers for algernon" situation though, I've read that book, it's sad, and I want no part of it.

Magnets! How do they work?! by Grapplebeam · 2011-02-01 19:52 · Score: 1

But seriously, how does this work?

--
There is no -1 Disagree.

Re:Magnets! How do they work?! by Em+Adespoton · 2011-02-02 05:51 · Score: 1

One word: flux (the magnetic kind, not flux capacitors).

Links to the actual papers... long term effects? by interkin3tic · 2011-02-01 19:53 · Score: 0, Redundant

Can we get the actual paper(s) linked to in the summary rather than just this "Scientists somewhere found something cool and that's about all we'll tell you" crap? Occasionally, I'm interested in details that are lacking. For anyone interested, Trippe et al 2011 J neurosci and Mix et al Euro J neurosci seem to be the articles they're talking about.

Having said that, they're behind paywalls, and people understandably hate that too...

I've seen a few papers like this one that suggests magnetic fields cause new neurons to form in rats. The research here suggests it "modifies electric activity and protein expression in the rat neocortex." I don't see why the two would be mutually exclusive when it comes to learning in the short term, but I'd also be interested in what the longer term effects are. Skimming over the newer article, it only tracked the rats 7 days, the paper about neurogenesis seems to show effects after nine weeks.

As I said, I only skimmed the articles, and I don't really have a clear understanding of the brain architecture, but it will be interesting if this treatment proves to have short and long term beneficial effects, or at least good short term effects and no bad effects from the increased neurons in the brain.

If this turns out to be a "flowers for algernon" situation though, I've read that book, it's sad, and I want no part of it.

wait a minute... by Narcocide · 2011-02-01 19:54 · Score: 1

Does this mean that the EM radiation from all these computers and old CRT monitors actually *is* making me smarter?

Side effects? by tsa · 2011-02-01 19:55 · Score: 2

I can't believe that magnetic stimulation will have no side effects whatsoever, as they claim. I won't let anyone go near my head with such a thing until more is known about the influence and long-term effects of this technique, or I have no choice but to try it.

--

-- Cheers!

Re:Side effects? by skrimp · 2011-02-02 02:23 · Score: 2

You mean aside from that brick of an electromagnetic transmitter you put beside your head all the time?
Re:Side effects? by Em+Adespoton · 2011-02-02 05:55 · Score: 1

Hmm... speakers generally work via electromagnet. Every headphone/telephone/etc. has one of these in it. This means that if you talk on the phone or use an audio headset, you're submitting part of your head to an altered magnetic field (and not in a controlled way like is done here). Same goes for working around high voltages, especially near transformers (not the robots).
Just saying.
Re:Side effects? by trawg · 2011-02-02 14:05 · Score: 1

My brother is a psychology PhD student - he's had TMI on a couple of occasions and has described it as a generally interesting experience. So far he's shown no ill effects other than a tendency to talk about it a lot.

Side effects by tsa · 2011-02-01 19:58 · Score: 1

I won't have anyone go near my head with a magnetic stimulator until I either have no other choice or more is known about long-term side effects.

--

-- Cheers!

wow so cool link by WSOGMM · 2011-02-01 20:00 · Score: 1

MAG-VIAG-NET makes give you erection! you simply put this special magnetic helmet on and...

...

but seriously... I wonder.

Maybe there is a DIY? by pablo_max · 2011-02-01 20:01 · Score: 1

Really, I am now learning German and at my age..what a pain in the butt. Would be great to pop on my magnet hat for my lessons.

Re:Maybe there is a DIY? by Thing+1 · 2011-02-02 01:56 · Score: 1

"I put on my robe and magnet hat..."

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:Maybe there is a DIY? by Culture20 · 2011-02-02 03:46 · Score: 1

Really, I am now learning German and at my age..what a pain in the butt.
I didn't know Dieter made any Learn German with Sprockets DVDs. I suppose the might not be popular due to the price.

Long term effects? by interkin3tic · 2011-02-01 20:01 · Score: 1

Can we get the actual paper(s) linked to in the summary rather than just this "Scientists somewhere found something cool and that's about all we'll tell you" crap? Occasionally, I'm interested in details that are lacking. For anyone interested, Trippe et al 2011 J neurosci and Mix et al Euro J neurosci seem to be the articles they're talking about.

Having said that, they're behind paywalls, and people understandably hate that too...

I've seen a few papers like this one that suggests magnetic fields cause new neurons to form in rats. The research here suggests it "modifies electric activity and protein expression in the rat neocortex." I don't see why the two would be mutually exclusive when it comes to learning in the short term, but I'd also be interested in what the longer term effects are. Skimming over the newer article, it only tracked the rats 7 days, the paper about neurogenesis seems to show effects after nine weeks.

As I said, I only skimmed the articles, and I don't really have a clear understanding of the brain architecture, but it will be interesting if this treatment proves to have short and long term beneficial effects, or at least good short term effects and no bad effects from the increased neurons in the brain.

If this turns out to be a "flowers for algernon" situation though, I've read that book, it's sad, and I want no part of it.

I for one, welcome our new super inteligent by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:01 · Score: 0

rat overlords...

(sorry)

The interesting part by ruseweek · 2011-02-01 20:02 · Score: 1

...is that the study shows the superiority of interrupted TMS (as opposed to continuous TMS). The interruptions somehow create a more general reduction in cell inhibitor activity. What is unclear from the article is whether these researchers tested only the inactivation of brain regions, or whether this iTMS "gating" technique is also plausible for the activation of brain areas. It seems to me that the latter would be more useful in the treatment of depression, since depression is caused by low concentrations of reward hormones.

Re:The interesting part by JonySuede · 2011-02-02 14:50 · Score: 1

depression is caused by low concentrations of reward hormones.
most depression are more complexes than that, read about the partial anta/agonist/recaptureIhnibitor of serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline called remeron and its effect on the brain and you will see that depression is excruciatingly complex disease.

--
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected

Cue scams in 10... by ikkonoishi · 2011-02-01 20:13 · Score: 1

I see thousands upon thousands of magnetic "performance enhancing" headbands in the near future.

Re:Cue scams in 10... by KermodeBear · 2011-02-02 03:29 · Score: 1

I see thousands upon thousands of magnetic "performance enhancing" headbands in the near future
Why wait? The future is already here! The 8 Coil Shakti headband can be yours for only $285!
Or you can just tape some kitchen magnets to your head and probably get the same effect.

--
Love sees no species.

Let me be the first to say by TooMuchToDo · 2011-02-01 20:13 · Score: 2

That I'd love to have something like this to help learn skills and languages faster and to remember things better.

It's not quite the Matrix's "I know jujitsu.", but we're getting there. Baby steps.

Re:Let me be the first to say by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-03 04:07 · Score: 0

That's "I know Kung-Fu", you insensitive clod !

Forbidden Planet Her We Come :) by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:15 · Score: 0

For some reason the Brain Enhancer scene in Forbidden Planet springs to mind :-)

hm by atsabig10fo · 2011-02-01 20:15 · Score: 1

i've wondered if the reason i spend so much time on the computer is because the whirring hard drives give off some weird magnetic field. maybe this shows promise:)

Really? by thaddeusthudpucker · 2011-02-01 20:15 · Score: 1

Makes learning easier? I WANT ONE!!

errrrr by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:16 · Score: 1

NEO: Can you fly that thing?

TRINITY: Not yet.

TANK: Operator.

TRINITY: Tank, I need a pilot program for a military M-109 helicopter.

magnets, how do they work? by __aatirs3925 · 2011-02-01 20:16 · Score: 1

fucking magnets, it even helps us learn better and yet we don't know how they work.

Funny by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:19 · Score: 0

I just had one of my physics professors tell me about a time he put his head into a 1T magnetic field. He estimated the current induced in his head was something on the order of .1mA, and then he said, "And what did I see? Well, I saw colors. It was stupid, but when you are a student you do stupid things when your advisor isn't looking."

Do we really know what large magnetic fields (really, large changes in magnetic flux, leading to electric currents) in the brain can do to people? Seems a bit like electroshock therapy to me.

All well and nice by Etrai · 2011-02-01 20:22 · Score: 1

This all well and nice, but when do I get my thinking cap?

Also, first first post. Yey me.

I for one.. by Kiraxa · 2011-02-01 20:23 · Score: 1

welcome our new rodent overlords.

--
http://phelannguyen.blogspot.com/

Turning parts of the brain on or off... by Insaniak · 2011-02-01 20:24 · Score: 1

"What the scientists have in their briefcases is terrifying." -- Nikita Khrushchev This quote was at the bottom of the page, I think it fits.

--
Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are

sledge hammers are not precision tools by nido · 2011-02-01 20:25 · Score: 1, Interesting

The Iraq Vet Stress Project uses very precise & minute magnetic fields - those generated with fingertips - to help soldiers with PTSD. The procedure involves tapping on specific locations on the skin while thinking about a specific distressing thought or emotion. They don't know exactly why it works, just that it does.

Leadership in the American Psychological Association is actively subverting continuing education credit for Energy Psychology for unknown reasons:

"The APA’s criteria for appropriate CE content are clear and straightforward. By any reasonable reading of our applications or of our 80-page appeal brief, we have met these criteria many times over. In blocking the dissemination of this approach, the APA is following a different agenda than its own rules. I have no idea what that agenda might be, but the bottom line is that it is hampering one of the most important clinical interventions for treating trauma that has appeared in recent years from reaching those who are in desperate need and could benefit from it most." -http://energymed.org/pr2.htm

Also see Truthout's Energy Psychology: Mental Health Experts Say It's Time to End the Ban

These "transcranial magnetic stimulators" look barbaric - why bother when there are already better techniques?

--
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com

Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by Thing+1 · 2011-02-02 02:05 · Score: 1

Was going to say "That sounds a lot like EFT", clicked on the first link to read a little, and saw EFT near the top of the page. Great stuff, even if some of my friends think I'm crazy. (Yes, the two can be true. :) I first learned about Jin Shin Jyutsu, a similar energy healing modality. I don't practice as much as I'd like but every time I do I feel better. By the way, that agenda? It's financial. There's a lot less money in touching people and breathing deeply, than there is in selling destructive pills that can be patented (i.e., you can make more selling into a government-protected monopoly than selling public domain goods.)

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by radtea · 2011-02-02 05:39 · Score: 1

The Iraq Vet Stress Project [stressproject.org] uses very precise & minute magnetic fields - those generated with fingertips - to help soldiers with PTSD. The procedure involves tapping on specific locations on the skin while thinking about a specific distressing thought or emotion. They don't know exactly why it works, just that it does.
Here may be part of the problem. You start with a completely unjustified claim about "precise and minute magnetic fields" that is probably false, and end with a completely contradictory claim "they don't know exactly why it works". So on the one hand you are claiming a detailed knowledge of one aspect of the process, and on the other claiming a deep ignorance of it. That kind of thing sets off the bullshit detector in most people's minds pretty loudly. Tapping the skin is not precise, and while there are electromagentic fields involved in any nerve stimulation they are hardly the way one would ordinarily describe this sort of thing.
Furthermore, a quick glance at the studies that purport to show outcome effects suggests they are severely lacking. They aren't double-blind, and the control arm in the largest study involves putting people with PTSD on a waiting list, not giving them a placebo treatment of any kind. I wonder if being on a waiting list ever increases stress?
The obvious placebo for the effectiveness of this kind of tapping treatment is to run the people through exactly the same course of hour-long sessions, but with something else replacing the tapping, like playing a musical tone, say. That would focus on the core phenomenological claim: that tapping the skin is the relevant causal agent in this kind of intervention.
I can think of lots of reasons why the APA might be against this kind of thing, but I see no evidence that the studies done so far actually constitute science, which is the public testing of an idea by controlled experiment and systematic observation. The experiments that have been done and the observations that have been made simply do not test the idea "tapping is the necessary and sufficient cause of improvement in PTSD seen in the poorly designed studies done to date."

--
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by Shotgun · 2011-02-02 06:09 · Score: 1

So on the one hand you are claiming a detailed knowledge of one aspect of the process, and on the other claiming a deep ignorance of it. That kind of thing sets off the bullshit detector in most people's minds pretty loudly.
I so wish that were true.

--
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by tabrnaker · 2011-02-02 08:20 · Score: 1

Aknowledging ignorance is usually the first step towards the truth. Notice how the scientists in the article have no clue how this works either.
That's science of course, trying to build a pyramid out of lots of little pyramids. Western science/medicine hasn't got any base to start to explain physical processes as flows of energy and not as static systems.
It will take a long time, because they're basically trying to explain the subjective science of energy movement (chi,prana, etc...) using static models.
It's interesting that in the past ten years more of this research is being done. Unfortunately, when i was doing my thesis on brain stimulation and learning i was failed even though i had significant results. I was failed because it went against the set assumptions of what is possible, i.e., i wasn't building ontop of a small pyramid, but trying to connect the spaces inbetween pyramids.
Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by ebuck · 2011-02-02 09:57 · Score: 1

They don't know exactly why it works, just that it does.
Either they know why it works, or they are incredibly ignorant. It's called the Observer-expantacy effect, and it's the primary reason why the double-blind experimental procedure was developed. This isn't some obscure bit of Psychology, it's covered in the first intro to Psychology class in detail.
Re:sledge hammers are not precision tools by nido · 2011-02-02 10:29 · Score: 1

The human body has electrical signaling. When electric current flows through human nerve tissue, minute magnetic fields are generated. The fields are applied to specific locations in the body that correspond and connect to specific locations in the brain.
In the EFT protocol, the first point that is tapped is on the eyebrow, or alternatively, on the bridge of the nose between the eyes. This is a point on the bladder meridian described by ancient chinese anatomists. The second point is on the side of the eye, which is on the Gallbladder meridian. The third point is under the eye, which falls on Stomach meridian. The fourth and fifth points are above and below the lips, which are central (below) and governing (above) meridians. And so on.
Each of the body's meridian pathways has different psychological functions. Blockages that result in the symptoms of PTSD are usually on a specific meridian or two, but everyone's different. The EFT process calls for tapping all the points because there's a severe shortage of clairvoyants who can 'look' at a person and 'know' which specific point[s] need tapping.
It would have been more proper to say that "Western science" can't explain why the procedure is so effective at releasing PTSD. Someone from a different culture would be like, "well duh".

--
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com

neat by zmollusc · 2011-02-01 20:26 · Score: 1

So sticking hard drive magnets on my tinfoil hat will be making my smartness more better? Horay!

--
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.

Re:neat by heathen_01 · 2011-02-02 02:39 · Score: 1

I think your magnets may be on the wrong way round. Have you tried reversing the polarity?

Smarter rats by geoskd · 2011-02-01 20:27 · Score: 1

Smarter rats are definitely on my wish list. With the possible exception of the tails, Rats are damn cool pets, especially if you can get ones the size of small dobermans.

-=Geoskd

--
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted

I will be able to know Kung Fu! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:30 · Score: 0

I can't wait to wake up and say it.

I know Kung Fu!

Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky? by zodar · 2011-02-01 20:33 · Score: 1

n/t

new age ftw! by Nyder · 2011-02-01 20:33 · Score: 1

Sweet, new age is making a come back.

--
Be seeing you...

Amateur Hour by Rollgunner · 2011-02-01 20:34 · Score: 4, Funny

My wife has been using Transcranial Sonic Stimulation to temporarily deactivate my aural, pleasure, empathy and impulse control centers for years now.

Re:Amateur Hour by Big+Nothing · 2011-02-02 02:00 · Score: 1

I have a similar wife, but there's nothing temporary about the procedure.

--
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!

Yeah but, by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:36 · Score: 0

Ef'ing Magnets, How Do They Work?

FIRST POST! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 20:37 · Score: 0

FIRST FROST PROST POST!

Re:First post! by GameboyRMH · 2011-02-02 01:50 · Score: 1

Update: Slashdot is buggy as hell. That is all.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Magnets by Dexter+Herbivore · 2011-02-01 20:48 · Score: 2

When I read that headline my immediate reaction was, "Uh oh... pseudo-science incoming". However this comes from a paper published in the Journal of Neuroscience and the European Journal of Neuroscience. So perhaps we can enhance our brain through the (in a 1950's movie scientist voice) POWER OF MAGNETS!

Re:Magnets by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 08:03 · Score: 0

Jack O'Neill is that you?

no by juasko · 2011-02-01 20:49 · Score: 0

ratts are smart enough as it is, fooling their traps allready. Know of a rat that always got his peiece of bait from the trap. He learnd how to trig the trap first and then take the bait. So smarter rats, no not on our wish list.

I'm scared by cool_arrow · 2011-02-01 20:57 · Score: 1

Anyone ever read Vernor Vinge's "A Deepness In the Sky"? Sounds like "focus" :D

Re:I'm scared by lennier · 2011-02-02 09:23 · Score: 1

Anyone ever read Vernor Vinge's "A Deepness In the Sky"? Sounds like "focus" :D
We have that mind-enslaving procedure already. It's called "Slashdot".

--
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC

I knew it! by captainpanic · 2011-02-01 21:01 · Score: 2

I knew it! They can deactivate my brain with magnets and stuff!
*proudly wears tin foil hat*

Re:I knew it! by Physics+Dude · 2011-02-02 05:23 · Score: 1

I knew it! They can deactivate my brain with magnets and stuff! *proudly wears tin foil hat*
Dude, tin foil isn't going to shield these magnetic fields! ;-)
Re:I knew it! by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2011-02-02 09:34 · Score: 1

I knew it! They can deactivate my brain with magnets and stuff! *proudly wears tin foil hat*
Dude! You need to switch to mu-metal.
(But keep the tinfoil as a lining for high frequency stuff.)

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way

Almost there. by Israfels · 2011-02-01 21:03 · Score: 1

Phase one of building our own monolith to nurture the growth of intelligent life is complete.

Prof. Funke by axonis · 2011-02-01 21:06 · Score: 1

need we say more

--
bÃ¦8Ã0sÃOE?5rÂ©oÂÃ?âz:ÃÃAÃ?ÃOEÂ6fXÃ?]Â

Ohh yea, fp! by lordmetroid · 2011-02-01 21:10 · Score: 1

The borg side of me want to make use of this technology for evil purposes such as programming people. While my benevolent side think this is really exciting cybernetic tool to enhance the human capabilities.

let's get some innovation on the go! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 21:24 · Score: 0

Welcome the brand new, 5000 dollar, iLobotomy by Apple.
Their new product will _actually_ turn parts of your brain off.

just in time for my exams by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 21:30 · Score: 0

I'll try with neodymium magnets on the head

Can it treat by zlel · 2011-02-01 21:33 · Score: 1

stupidity?

Brave New World by olafura · 2011-02-01 21:38 · Score: 1

How long until this is used for thought control. Imagine turning of any critical brain center and planting things right into the unconscious. But at least we will have more knowledge :)

ADHD... by 0100010001010011 · 2011-02-01 21:43 · Score: 1

Any possibility of turning of.... hey do you want to go ride bikes?

obligatory by buruonbrails · 2011-02-01 21:44 · Score: 1

I for one welcome our new intelligent rat overlords

Magnets, snake oil or legit? by pspahn · 2011-02-01 21:49 · Score: 1

In 2001, I was living with a friend briefly and slept on a bed with one of those magnetized mattress top things. I'm not sure if it was coincidence or not, but soon I began to dream quite vividly each night, often lucid, and my friend said it was the magnets.

I did some brief research and found information about the effects of magnets on the brain, specially Melatonin (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure if this stuff was fact or fiction, but the claims seemed logical.

--
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.

Re:Magnets, snake oil or legit? by Shotgun · 2011-02-02 06:13 · Score: 1

Was she hot?
I know when I briefly live with a hot friend that I have very lucid dreams while sleeping in her bed. I don't think it has anything to do with the magnets.
Wait a minute. This is /. I must have been dreaming.

--
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Re:Magnets, snake oil or legit? by tabrnaker · 2011-02-02 08:32 · Score: 2

The interesting thing about logic is that very few people possess the ability to use it. The basic 'common sense' reaction is , magnets= nonsense.
However, humans are collections of magnetic fields. So basically "common sense" is saying, "how dumb are you to believe that magnets affect magnet fields".
It's kind of ironic that a large part of the culture that pursues physcial determinism seem to exclude themselves from said physical determinism. Which is just proof that the western viewpoint still lacks a connection to reality.
Re:Magnets, snake oil or legit? by sjames · 2011-02-03 10:42 · Score: 1

It could also just be an unfamiliar environment. That can often stimulate more vivid dreaming.

You fucking with me? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 21:51 · Score: 0

This has been up for hours and 0 comments?

Then let me be the first to say: BULLSHIT! THIS IS BULLSHIT IF IT WAS THAT EASY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE!

stupid filter, I am yelling.

Citations, Citations Nowhere!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 21:52 · Score: 0

The article ends with "The Ruhr University Bochum team has published studies on their research in both the Journal of Neuroscience and in the European Journal of Neuroscience."

No name of study. No author. No way to look up the research. This is science journalism 101 people. But don't worry, even print press gets it wrong.

magnets by gargamelo · 2011-02-01 21:53 · Score: 1

how do they work ?

Spooky by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 21:56 · Score: 0

"the technology shows potential for allowing TMS to better treat a variety of brain disorders in humans, such as the desire for privacy or being dis-satisfied with the government "

There, I fixed that for ya.

someone by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 22:00 · Score: 0

Probably this could be really dangerous...

smart rats by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 22:02 · Score: 0

Not on anyone's wish list? You are so wrong! *mwahahaha*

Magnets? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 22:20 · Score: 0

How do they f'n work?

Electroshock! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 22:22 · Score: 0

...is the new ritalin.

Evolution! by louic · 2011-02-01 22:37 · Score: 1

So now all we need to do is deploy this technology everywhere by putting GSM antennae on top of schools.

Evolution! by louic · 2011-02-01 22:39 · Score: 1

So now all we need to do is put GSM antennae on the roof of all schools.

Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 22:57 · Score: 0

In soviet russia, super intelligent overlord rats welcome YOU!

Obligatory by Conanymous+Award · 2011-02-01 23:11 · Score: 1

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain, but I can't be sure... That magnet has temporarily inactivated my pondering section."

Computer games and marketing by sven_eee · 2011-02-01 23:11 · Score: 1

This could be a good technology to use with computer games and product marketing. Game developers and marketers could use it to de-activate the part of the brain that make you think "Hey this is crap" and activate the part that makes you think "I love you man"

Algernon! by TaoPhoenix · 2011-02-01 23:20 · Score: 2

Diary entry:

Algernon the Mouse writing. I don't feel so good any more. Miss Kinnian says she is worried.

--
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine

ouch! by sjwt · 2011-02-01 23:22 · Score: 1

With out reading the more detailed description with the pictures, it looks more like a destructive treatment, though apparently its not.

But thankfully the closing paragraph seems to indicate they aren't trying to describe this as a guaranteed new amazing treatment, but rather something that warrants future works.

--
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?

I went and read the article... by Rubinstien · 2011-02-01 23:24 · Score: 1

...and there's still no first post? I can't believe *everyone* is reading the article!

Why are all articles taged "slashdot" by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 23:24 · Score: 0

Has the taging system stopped working? Slashdot is getting more boring by the hour.

energy boost by bzipitidoo · 2011-02-01 23:24 · Score: 1

What is really going on here? Might this magnetic stimulation be nothing more than a crude way to pump energy directly into the brain? Or dampen it? Same sort of idea behind why vibrations help surgery patients recover faster.

I'm wondering how easy it is to cause damage with too much stimulation.

Doubt it would do anything for Alzheimer's patients.

--
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"

Re:energy boost by tabrnaker · 2011-02-02 08:41 · Score: 2

Damage? You have heard of ECT right? You'd need way less energy levels for this application, even less than the energy they've used to knock out peoples visual centers. Basically they're gravitating towards, less energy, more specificity.
As for Alzheimer's what's your basis? As far as i can tell it could possible help considering that a symptom of alzheimers is the deterioration of the matrix that suspends the neurons in the brain. Brain growth stimulates the strengthing and growth of the matrix. In fact, it is increasingly seen as just as important as the neurons itself. After all, what is flow without structure?

That explains it... by Rubinstien · 2011-02-01 23:25 · Score: 1

...posted a comment and it did not appear. Slashcode 3.0 appears to be broken.

They can read my mind man! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 23:29 · Score: 0

Good luck trying to get a paranoid schizophrenic to subject him/herself to put a machine to their skull.......

Uh, oh ... by thomst · 2011-02-01 23:45 · Score: 1

... Don't let Bender hear about this ...

--
Check out my novel.

Magnetically stimulated overlords by tonique · 2011-02-01 23:51 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcome our magnetically stimulated overlords.

Yay for research by tonique · 2011-02-01 23:54 · Score: 1

This is why I love science -- new discoveries are made, and hopefully can be put into use!

Re:Yay for research by tonique · 2011-02-02 09:57 · Score: 1

See, I posted two replies because it showed zero comments for a long time.

Is this science or "Science"? by Interoperable · 2011-02-01 23:55 · Score: 1

A peer-reviewed publication in The Journal of Neuroscience suggests that it is, in fact, science.

Despite that, I have watched too much Star-Trek and know too little about neuroscience to be able to read about "cortical excitability" via "theta-burst stimulation" or about "enhanced spontaneous neuronal firing and EEG gamma band power" and not feel that I'm reading a sci-fi screenplay.

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So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?

Re:Is this science or "Science"? by tnk1 · 2011-02-02 05:10 · Score: 1

Exposure to electromagnetic energy of sufficient strength will definitely have some effect on your body, and just about anything else, so the sci-fi treatments certainly have a grounding in objective reality. The real story is not *what* is being used, but *how* it is being used.
Where these scenes usually fail is that they talk about applying some sort of energy which then fixes an issue. However, energy is simply energy, and as we all know, the difference between a nuclear plant and a nuclear bomb is what is done with that energy.
Translate the sci-fi medical technobabble into a modern auto mechanic speaking and usually what you get is: "Okay, this engine is broken. Let's get a crescent wrench in there, stat!"
There is nothing wrong with that dialogue, but what is the mechanic doing with the wrench? If he is tightening something that is loose, that works. If he is just using it to randomly bang on engine parts and make noise, it's stupid.
In the the case of using similar tactics in modern medicine, one major issue is that we are exposed to background radiation and magnetic fields all the time. It seems likely therefore that, we have evolved brains and a nervous system that are able to work consistently while experiencing casual exposure over relatively long periods. That's why something like magnetic wristbands and hats are unlikely to have much of an effect on anything; they're simply not going to work at a level that is much more than the background. Our CNS and brain are likely to resist or cancel out any effect from such small variations from the background.
The other issue is that for any such intervention to produce a desired effect (happiness, better learning), it probably needs to be tuned to obtain that specific effect. You can't just flip on an electromagnet and feel better. The results of a global change to your "personal magnetic field" are likely to be either overly generalized, unpredictable, or both. Using the magnetic wrist band example, its unlikely that a wrist band, which is probably going to be flopping around on your wrist all day, is going to be able to have any sort of focused effect on anything. And that is even if we were to accept that you can apply external electromagnetic energy to one of your wrists to have an effect other than simply feeling a tingle on your wrist.
Re:Is this science or "Science"? by tabrnaker · 2011-02-02 08:47 · Score: 2

Simple experiment.
A) Sleep on the floor of your house (hopefully you live in the city full of electricity and gadgets)
B) Go camping and sleep on the ground far away from man-made magnetic fields
C) Observe the difference.
I have not met one person that hasn't been able to notice the difference.

Old but limited by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-01 23:55 · Score: 0

There's a doctor in the NE US that has been using this to treat a host of issues including Parkinson's.
The guy charges a fortune for the treatments and is considered a quack by others in the field.
His patients don't care and swear that it works.
He has patents and refuses to license them and won't accept peer review because he doesn't want to publish.
The guy is getting older and may begin to get more reasonable about things but he's bitter because he knows traditional methods for treating these types of disorders rarely work.

fucking magnets by frizzantik · 2011-02-01 23:59 · Score: 1

how do they work?

That Explains Why... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:02 · Score: 0

My head is now stuck to the refrigerator. I should have known that the "get smart quick" course I ordered from China was too good to be true!

nimh by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:04 · Score: 0

smart rats = win.

whenever i hear about magnetic therapy, i think of those stupid placebo Dick Wicks pillows and things.

If you can turn off part of the brain... by Viol8 · 2011-02-02 00:06 · Score: 1

... could you turn off all of it? Put someone to sleep? Could it be used as an anasthetic.

Magnets, how do they work? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:07 · Score: 0

Magnets, how do they work?

Cell phones might be doing this already by dtjohnson · 2011-02-02 00:10 · Score: 2

Cell phones were shown many years ago to affect long-term memory in a classic study at the University of Washington. It might make sense to try and apply the magnetic fields selectively to accomplish some sort of positive learing result. Hopefully, this won't turn out to another one of those enthusiastically-received procedures like lobotomies or electroshock that end up hurting more than helping.

Re:Cell phones might be doing this already by Shotgun · 2011-02-02 06:16 · Score: 1

They affect extremely short term memory around here. It seems all the females forget that they're driving when they bring the phones close to their heads.

--
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba

Smarter sharks...? by benwiggy · 2011-02-02 00:13 · Score: 1

So can we use this technology to make smarter sharks? That would be an interesting piece of research with no foreseeable problems.

It would also go well with some laser research that I've been doing.

SkyMall? by WrongSizeGlass · 2011-02-02 00:14 · Score: 1

Does this mean some of those crazy looking pieces of headgear in SkyMall may actually work? If so they should market it as "able to remove all other memories of SkyMall with less pain than a corkscrew lobotomy."

obvious application by Swampash · 2011-02-02 00:14 · Score: 1

"the technology shows potential for allowing TMS to better treat a variety of brain disorders and diseases in humans, such as severe depression and schizophrenia and religion."

Re:obvious application by Geminii · 2011-02-05 01:51 · Score: 1

I'ma gonna drive-by-EMP the local church, yee-haw!

How to improve the tinfoil hat by unwastaken · 2011-02-02 00:15 · Score: 1

I've been wondering how this might affect learning since I read Savant for a Day several years ago. Since it looks like you can actually learn using this technique, it might be time to add some magnets to my tinfoil hat!

Re:How to improve the tinfoil hat by tabrnaker · 2011-02-02 09:26 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link, it's an interesting read.
I like how science comes up with ways to do things that require no effort on your part. Other cultures had to actually do the work themselves, such as through yoga. Which basically says you have limited awareness divided between lots of nonsense, so to improve performance control where your energy goes.
After all, if you're working on a mental problem do you really need to have part of your consciousness dedicated to listening for your name? or the word fire? Flow is the absence of most, if not all, contextually useless subroutines.
You can also improve reaction times by reducing higher level functions, e.g. 2.5d vision takes lots of processing power, you're actually not looking at what is there, but a static representation of what was there milliseconds ago. Which is why if you get hit in the eye, the flash of stimulation is seen before the object even touches your eye. Now, if you remove all your object creation/aggregation functions (built on top of 2.5d vision you get even faster pattern recognition and with binocular vision decoupled you can move on to using your eyes independently. Basically, autists are working close to the metal (probably due to a problem with higher aggregation functions).
The example of the quad in the article is perfect. Understanding shadows was the bane of my existence. If you have no 2.5d vision and a very small viewport (If looking at a person my field of view was only sufficient to see one facial feature at a time) then you have no object creation (which makes recognizing faces, places, and things, very difficult).
INterestingly enough, once i accomplished getting 'field view', my brain took care of the rest. 4 years after the initial work on my eyes and i can recognize objects, people and even my self in the mirror. The suprising thing was how simple shadows are to understand...IF you can see the object and the lightsource at the same time!

The last thing we need by GapingHeadwound · 2011-02-02 00:20 · Score: 1

...is magnetic rat brain.

The Fourth "R" by George O. Smith by gweeks · 2011-02-02 00:36 · Score: 1

This looks like The Fourth "R" by George O. Smith.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/18602

I do hope by maroberts · 2011-02-02 00:38 · Score: 1

That this is not related to the bunkum about wearing magnetic bracelets etc

--

Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon

F*ckin Magnets by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:39 · Score: 0

Finally, we'll know how f*ckin magnets work!

First post by GameboyRMH · 2011-02-02 00:40 · Score: 1

I used TMS to speed up the first posting part of my brain

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

oblig by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:41 · Score: 0

Rat overlords, yadda yadda.

First post! by GameboyRMH · 2011-02-02 00:42 · Score: 1

Thanks to TMS stimulation!

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

I know some people.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:52 · Score: 0

or it can't be hard finding human objects that may need this... don't make me talk about egyptian leaders...

Bleh by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:55 · Score: 0

Don't be so narrowminded. Don't just treat brain disorders, make ordinary brains better!

Slashdot is Broken? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 00:57 · Score: 0

Why Can't I post?

Promising by gafisher · 2011-02-02 01:01 · Score: 2

TMS / TCMS has also shown promise in the treatment of migraine [ http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(10)70054-5/abstract ] and a simple handheld device has been tested [ http://www.science20.com/news_releases/transcranial_magnetic_stimulator_claims_to_zap_away_migraines ] with positive results. The magnetic fields involved are much more intense than environmental magnetism, but the sensitivity of the brain to these effects raises questions about prolonged exposure to electromagnetic noise.

Awesome! by mevets · 2011-02-02 01:05 · Score: 1

Will the fancy magnetic brainwashing machine have a spinning psychedelic disc?

Brainwashing has been so out of fashion for too long. It used to be a staple in the cheezy movie diet, but I thought we had eaten into extinction..

Re:Long term effects? by Thing+1 · 2011-02-02 01:55 · Score: 1

Did you mean to post this three times, or is Slashdot still beta testing?

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

Peer reviewers wore magnets on their skulls? by captainpanic · 2011-02-02 02:02 · Score: 1

Maybe the peer reviewers wore magnets and temporarily deactivated parts of their brain - while suffering from a placebo effect?

doing this to the thing i think with? by Revek · 2011-02-02 02:23 · Score: 1

i think not.

Missing tag for story by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 02:40 · Score: 0

Where is there a "What could possibly go wrong" tag when you need one?

Re:Although I'm not a fan of experiments on animal by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 02:45 · Score: 0

... I'd consider paying for the National Institute of Menthal Health to do those experiments.... :)

It's better than paying the National Institute of Menthol Health to have rats smoke a bunch of Kools.

Suddenly it all makes sense. by JustAnotherIdiot · 2011-02-02 03:02 · Score: 0

There are magnets in those earbuds I always see people wearing, I take it this temporarily inactivates the user's brain, which eventually causes permanent shutoff. This must be why there is a rise of neanderthals in our society, along with the rise of users of apple products.

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What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?

So thats why hard drives have those huge magnets! by toygeek · 2011-02-02 04:38 · Score: 1

Its so they can remember all that stuff!

--
Nobodies Prefect
Tidbits for Techs Technology Blog

we should... by hesaigo999ca · 2011-02-02 04:55 · Score: 1

Help ourselves to learn by having big giant magnets in each classroom, that will help all our children to learn quicker, faster, better, stronger....(bionic man song playing in the background).....these will be the children of the future. tz, tztztztztz, tztz, tztztztztztz

Pinky and The Brain! by OFnow · 2011-02-02 04:59 · Score: 1

Now we'll really have rats planning to take over the world.

Re:Long term effects? by interkin3tic · 2011-02-02 04:59 · Score: 1

Nothing was showing up, I assumed it was my browser. It was late, so it was only after hitting submit the third time that I thought "Maybe I should just wait a bit."

Oops.

I contacted ethics board by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 05:21 · Score: 0

I am a scientist, and when I read the journal articles about TMS and the crooked statistics that were used to arrive at the conclusion that it was beneficial, I felt sufficiently motivated to contact the ethics bureau. This is the only time I have ever done this. I usually say live and let live, but the man in charge was putting young volunteers at risk under the pretense of science. The brain is a highly complex organ, and we are only beginning to understand the subtleties of neural signalling. To think that a giant electromagnetic pulse applied to a system consisting of billions of neurons will somehow be of benefit is absurd. The best analogy I can think of for /. readers: applying a giant electromagnetic pulse to a computer and observing the behaviour...

Please, Mr. Schizophrenic, remove the tinfoil! by LordByronStyrofoam · 2011-02-02 05:37 · Score: 1

I just can't see non-institutionalized schizophrenics going for a treatment that requires them to 'let the authorities send signals to their brain'. Really.

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Slashdot's name? When my compiler sees /. it generates a warning about a badly formed comment.

Even more obvious application by Shotgun · 2011-02-02 06:18 · Score: 1

How about a cure for low grades or "the boss want me to learn the new software/hardware platform and have it rolled out tomorrow"?

--
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba

orgasmatron? by advocate_one · 2011-02-02 06:33 · Score: 1

can I build one now? if it can stimulate some areas of the brain, then I want one that can stimulate the pleasure receptors...

--
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.

Or ... by hey! · 2011-02-02 06:45 · Score: 2

You could get some exercise. There is simply no other thing you can do for brain health and performance that has anything close to the volume of research support that exercise has. Recently I was reading in Science News about how rats given a test requiring them to remember subtle differences performed significantly better when they had an exercise wheel in their cage.

--
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.

rats are not evil by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 10:23 · Score: 0

My pet rats are smarter than you might expect, but I would love for them to be even smarter.

Re:"Activates?" "Stimulates?" Real articles please by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-02 14:39 · Score: 0

As a neuroscience researcher, let me tell you this : we know fuck all about the inner workings of the mind. We understand some microdetails perfectly and have somekind of a blurry big picture but that's all.

Re:Long term effects? by JonySuede · 2011-02-02 14:41 · Score: 1

wwwwhhhyyy dddiiiddd yyyooouuu pppooosssttt ttthhhrrreeee tttiiimmmeeesss ?

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Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected

Re:Long term effects? by Thing+1 · 2011-02-03 01:45 · Score: 1

Thanks, good to know. And, sorry about summoning the mods... :)

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

It's not science by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-03 02:41 · Score: 0

It's really just a tinfoil hat.

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Magnetic Brain Stimulation Makes Learning Easier

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