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How the iPhone Led To the Sale of T-Mobile

Hugh Pickens writes "Kevin O'Brien writes that Deutsche Telekom's announcement to sell its American wireless unit, T-Mobile USA, to AT&T for $39 billion ended a decade-long foray into the American market that was undermined, in part, by the advent of the iPhone (reg. may be required). Deutsche Telekom had been generating decent sales from its American operation, but after the iPhone went on sale, sold exclusively at first for AT&T in the United States, T-Mobile USA began to lose its most lucrative customers: those on fixed, monthly plans, who defected to its larger American rivals — AT&T and Verizon Wireless. 'The iPhone effect cannot be underestimated in this decision,' says analyst Theo Kitz. "Without being able to sell the iPhone, T-Mobile was in an unsustainable position and T-Mobile USA became a problem child." Ironically, AT&T's acquisition won't help T-Mobile customers get access to the iPhone anytime soon, as T-Mobile will remain independent, albeit under AT&T's stewardship, for around a year, and won't offer the iPhone to its customers during that period."

276 comments

  1. This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I really like Tmobile, been with them 8 years, but this is going to get me onto a prepaid phone for voice only and just use the phone over WiFi for data.

    1. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by erroneus · · Score: 1

      That may be the direction I go as well. I love my Android phone but I don't like the required data plan. Once the opportunity to break away is given I will just go prepaid and use WiFi only.

      Also, I am looking into ways to use WiFi or Google Voice for some other fun and interesting tricks as I want to keep the number I have now. (It's a cool number!... wife's is too)

    2. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      I agree. Just because a company you used to like goes bad doesn't mean you have to stick with it. Everyone isn't caring an iPhone Being an early adopter was a lot of fun back in the day, when it was about technology and not IP/marketshare gaming. There are two many ways to skin this cat, we can't be forced to do what they expect. There is not a killer app or a killer product. Marketing as though every customer is "typical" or the same won't work because most customers are not "average".

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      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    3. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by darjen · · Score: 1

      Same boat here. I was on a prepaid Nokia e71 before I was lured over to Verizon by the Droid 1. My wife is on the Eris. I absolutely hate paying for two data plans. I can't help but think there are so many better things we could be doing with that money. I regret signing up for the 2 year contract, and will probably jump ship as soon as that is up in November.

    4. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Why is it that so many people I talk to feel this way, and NONE of the carriers in the US get it? I do not want a data plan. I do not want to spend $400 to "rent" a device that will have support dropped in 3 years. Apparently, they do not want my business.

    5. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really like Tmobile, been with them 8 years, but this is going to get me onto a prepaid phone for voice only and just use the phone over WiFi for data.

      I've been a Tmobile prepaid customer since about 2005. I switched away from AT&T***, where I was paying about $70/month combined for our 2 cell phones. After the switch, I never once paid more than $25/month combined for our 2 phones, with $10-15 typically for the first several years, and $5/month is more typical now that my wife is a stay-at-home mom. I'm now terrified that AT&T is going to totally mess up the prepaid plans. I mean we see what their idea of prepaid is...$2/day. LOL. Although we typically only use our phones for a few minutes a day, we typically use them each 2-3 times per week, so we'd be looking at a minimum of $30/month, and probably more like $40-50...a 10-fold increase over the current cost.

      ***Humorously, the reason I originally switched from AT&T was because their capacity was so poor that on a regular basis, whenever I tried to make a call from the Livonia, MI area (which is a large suburb smack dab in the of the metro Detroit area, nowhere near the outskirts of the densely populated area, and right along one of the major expressways), they would connect me to a competitors tower and charge me roaming fees.

    6. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because your (and your constituency) don't outweigh the amount of suckers who fall for it. They'd rather make their bottom line happy, they are a business after all.

    7. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

      Why would a business in this environment bother trying to do something like give people what they want when their audience has essentially no other choice when it comes to getting those services except to do without? What are you gonna do, move to Europe to get a better deal on your mobile service?

      How, exactly, would a start-up that was more competitive price-wise even begin to get started and compete when they'd have to either have stupendous amounts of cash to build up their own infrastructure or have to rent it from the dominant players in the game already and deal with basically being screwed every which way imaginable if they even began to seem like they might be a threat?

      Honestly, your question may as well be: "Why is it that so many people I talk to feel that they should be given a billion dollars tax free, and NONE of the politicians they elect in the US get it?"

      I don't mean to be rude or anything but seriously - why would the carriers have to get it when the very laws of the nation governing their conduct are essentially paid for and written by them?

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    8. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by N0Man74 · · Score: 1

      I'm right there with you. I spent quite a bit of time trying to look for another plan that allowed me to either have no data plan or a very minimal and cheap one.

      I recently acquired an "older" Verizon phone (slightly more than 2 years old) . I'm content to just use it as a phone that can access wi-fi access points only. However, Verizon told me I wouldn't be allowed to use it with Verizon without buying a data plan. They wouldn't let me do just voice only, and their voice plans were overpriced already before adding data.

      The funny thing about it is that I was able to go to a prepaid dealer (PagePlus) and use my same phone, on the Verizon network still, and get voice, texts, and a little data for cheaper than I could get at Verizon themselves! Now, there are stories that their customer support is bad (and their hold times are long) but they give cheaper and more reasonable plans on the Verizon network than Verizon does!

      I too am waiting for carriers to get a clue and start making more consumer friendly plans...but I'm not holding my breath... especially when the number of competitors shrink.

    9. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Just because there are less redheads than blonds, you do not bar redheads from your service. As it is, they are driving away, or at best not fully utilizing, existing customers.

    10. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Stick with my 4 year old Motorola SLDR until it finally dies, then get a cheap "feature phone" from the peasant corner. And pick up a smart phone on craigslist with no plan and wifi if I really need it that bad... Which is less money for them than actually providing something I would pay for.

    11. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by dougisfunny · · Score: 1

      I'd have bought a smart phone if I could get it without a data plan. Instead, the requirement induced me to buy a feature phone.

      --
      This is not the funny you're looking for.
    12. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by Raumkraut · · Score: 1

      Why is it, that every time I read or hear "data plan", I hear it again in Lenny's voice:
      "data plan"
      "Lisa needs braces"
      "data plan"
      "Lisa needs braces"
      "data plan"
      ...

    13. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      It's pronounced Customers.

    14. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      ***Humorously, the reason I originally switched from AT&T was because their capacity was so poor that on a regular basis, whenever I tried to make a call from the Livonia, MI area (which is a large suburb smack dab in the of the metro Detroit area, nowhere near the outskirts of the densely populated area, and right along one of the major expressways), they would connect me to a competitors tower and charge me roaming fees.

      That usually indicates a dead spot, not congestion. Also, it's your phone that chooses which towers to roam onto, or at least does the priority ranking. You can tell your phone to not use other companies' towers. I bet if you did this, you would find that there's little or no AT&T signal at that location.

      At least you're not far enough North to be roaming onto Canadian towers.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    15. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by jbolden · · Score: 1

      So buy a 3rd party phone or an ipod.

    16. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 0

      Yeah, there's nothing better for the bottom line than spending time and money chasing the cheapest customers who are vocal about not wanting to spend any money, and who are (guessing by the complaining that goes on here) likely to chew up company time with constant customer service complaints despite never wanting to pay anything.

      I can't imagine why they don't bother.

    17. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by LBt1st · · Score: 1

      You actually can have an android phone on prepaid. You only need a data plan to activate the phone. Just pop in a friend's SIM card (which has a data plan) activate the phone, then pop your prepaid SIM in and your good to go. Get your data via wifi.
      If you really neeed it, t-mobile's prepaid plans allow you to pay $1.50 for 24 hours of data via the cell network.

    18. Re:This just gives me the impetus to go prepaid by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      How, exactly, would a start-up that was more competitive price-wise even begin to get started and compete when they'd have to either have stupendous amounts of cash to build up their own infrastructure or have to rent it from the dominant players in the game already and deal with basically being screwed every which way imaginable if they even began to seem like they might be a threat?

      There already ARE competitors.. e.g. Virgin Mobile phones, etc.. I see there are some Android phones there.

  2. There Can Be Only One! by Seumas · · Score: 0

    Thank god for regulation and breaking monopolies! We have so much variety and competition, now. Up to as many as three cell providers in an area and up to as many as one broadband provider!

    1. Re:There Can Be Only One! by 517714 · · Score: 1

      If the article is true, then Sprint has no chance of surviving and it will be two cell providers. I don't really believe the article, but 80% of the market in two carriers pocket is not good.

      Does anyone else think it funny/interesting/sad that Deutsche Telekom bought Tmobile USA for $50.7B in 2001, plus another for $2.4B in 2007 and is only getting $39B?

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    2. Re:There Can Be Only One! by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Does anyone else think it funny/interesting/sad that Deutsche Telekom bought Tmobile USA for $50.7B in 2001, plus another for $2.4B in 2007 and is only getting $39B?

      That ain't a bad return for buying a technology company that didn't come in first in the competition. Its not uncommon to lose 98,99% when that happens.

  3. Germany: Totally different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Interestingly, it's totally different in Germany: T-Mobile was the exclusive iPhone vendor here until the very end of 2010. Won them a lot of customers, I guess.

    1. Re:Germany: Totally different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but Vodafone and O2 are also selling the iPhone 4 now, which will weaken DT's market position. I already cancelled my TMo contract and switched to O2...

    2. Re:Germany: Totally different by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      But, I can understand how the stratigit in Germany would think, "If it helped us so much here, it must be hurting us there. No need to wait for the numbers to organie this deal, they'd only make our market price go down.,"

      --
      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    3. Re:Germany: Totally different by SniperJoe · · Score: 1

      Everything I've ever known about Germans has indicated that they're typically methodical and efficient, thus I'd be very surprised if they didn't pore over numbers before going through with it. Being a T-Mobile customer, I'm not happy about the deal, but I wouldn't immediately point the finger at German irrationality.

  4. this is the weirdest story ever by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the iphone has zero to do with tmobile being sold, which, in case people haven't noticed, still has to be approved by the government. This deal actually might not be, in which case a lot of people will be happy.

    What a joke of an article. It only looks at customers lost from the iphone, and not customers gained once tmobile picked up the G1, their first android phone. Talk about spin.

    1. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by vawwyakr · · Score: 2

      Its like the article writers are so in bed with apple they just can't write about the iphone enough. Any excuse to extol it's virtues and power is a good one. Never mind the competition because they aren't apple and only apple makes the things we love.

    2. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "It only looks at customers lost from the iphone, and not customers gained once tmobile picked up the G1"

      What do you think, which sales figure is significantly higher of these two?

    3. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      What a joke of an article. It only looks at customers lost from the iphone, and not customers gained once tmobile picked up the G1, their first android phone. Talk about spin.

      Maybe because the sales of the iPhone are so much larger than the G1. Overall, Android phones outsell iPhone however those sales are spread across different manufacturers and carriers. Until recently iPhone was only on AT&T which was GSM.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I have always considered people who "jump ship" to the latest and greatest and have no brand loyalty to be my most valuable customers too.

    5. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      What a joke of an article. It only looks at customers lost from the iphone, and not customers gained once tmobile picked up the G1, their first android phone. Talk about spin.

      Spin? This is common sense. The G1 sold maybe a million or thereabouts. Meanwhile, AT&T alone sold about 16 million iPhones last year alone.

      On a related note, this is the first time I've felt the need to "hate" the iPhone, as it will directly affect me as a T-Mobile customer.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by dch24 · · Score: 1

      Remember, Apple went to all the major cell carriers in the US, selling the iPhone concept. (I googled for a link, but didn't find one right off.) Why aren't we hearing about the management at T-Mobile? The ones who looked at the phone and said, "meh, no thanks."

    7. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are the sales figures for the i-phone and G1?

    8. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      Somewhat ironically, the iPhone got me to switch from ATT to T-Mobile - I had a first gen iPhone on ATT, but the service sucked so abysmally in my area that I jailbroke my phone and used it on T-Mobile, the only other compatible network in my area.

      I'm on Sprint now, however - they made me an offer I couldn't refuse (hi, 4 lines for 4 HTC evos, unlimited everything including data/"4g" for under $180 USD/month!). I wish Sprint and T-Mobile had merged - Sprint's massive bandwidth that often goes unused + T-Mobile's excellent customer support would have made for a very competitive 3rd major network.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    9. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by asto21 · · Score: 1

      What're you? A hippopotamus?

    10. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by vawwyakr · · Score: 1

      So your contention is that the iphone on AT&T brought T-Mobile to it's knees and made it a take over candidate?

    11. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Desler · · Score: 2

      What a joke of an article. It only looks at customers lost from the iphone, and not customers gained once tmobile picked up the G1, their first android phone.

      And how many did they gain from the G1? Do you have any figures or are you just assuming that a bunch of people will just agree with you without asking for evidence? Anyway, it took 6 months for the G1 to even reach 1 million sales for T-Mobile. The original iPhone, on the other hand, had sold 1 million units in 74 days for Apple and AT&T in the US. So sorry, I don't buy your claims of the G1 being some huge customer gainer when it had anemic sales in comparison to the iPhone. But if you have some actual evidence to the contrary, like a quarterly report from T-Mobile that says something to back you up, please present it rather than your speculation.

    12. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by swalve · · Score: 1

      Seriously. A cell company's most valuable customer is the one who sticks with them past the end of the 2 year subsidy window. I went 2.5 years with at&t before replacing a phone, and was able to get $100 credit for a new phone just by calling them up and whining.

      Although, maybe that's the point. I am convinced that cell companies use the same business model as credit card companies, where the customer base is an annuity for them. You give them a phone and they pay you $60 a month for 24 months. Profit is there, but it is about cash flow.

    13. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Desler · · Score: 1

      Supposedly 1.5 million, but that took nearly a year to achieve. Even before the Euro launch of the iPhone, Apple and AT&T had sold 1.5 million iPhones in under 6 months. Let's not even get into the fact that the iPhone 2G, 3G, 3GS and 4Gs all sold more than a million within like 3 days of launch.

    14. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      I would have liked to see comparable data on Verizon and Sprint defections after AT&T released the iPhone. I don't find this argument at all convincing. It sounds more like either a post-hoc rationalization for dumping an unprofitable investment, or a way to convince Telekom investors that their US problems were all Apple/AT&T's fault.

      As an AT&T customer who was recently considering switching to T-Mobile, I'm not very happy about the proposed merger. Now we'll have only one GSM provider in the US.

    15. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Are you moronic? If the G1 sold a million (which it has sold far more, but that's besides the point), the question is, what is the ACTUAL loss from iphone versus the gain from the G1?

      If Tmobile lost a million people form the iphone and gained a million from the G1, guess what? The iphone had no significance at all.

      The "16million iphones" doesn't mean all 16 million people are from Tmobile, dumbass.

    16. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So because you don't like the iPhone you deny the entire premise of the article like a child. Nobody bought the G1 by the way.

    17. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Especially since T-mobile was smart enough to recognize the value of the sidekick, which at that point was getting old.

      Until the spectrum auction only a crazy person would pair Tmobile with th iPhone I would think (as in better developed AT&T collapsed in many areas due to the weight).

      --
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    18. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I would bet the low-end smart phone (later in G1 cycle, various mytouch phones) coupled with the cheap data plan does gelp Tmobile a lot. G1 specifically peobably not so much (I've seen very few of them in the wild).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    19. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Desler · · Score: 1

      I would bet the low-end smart phone (later in G1 cycle, various mytouch phones) coupled with the cheap data plan does gelp Tmobile a lot.

      I don't doubt they probably do. His claim was specifically over the G1 which had piss poor sales. The iPhone 3G, 3GS and 4 all had more sales in a week then the G1 had over it's lifetime.

    20. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Desler · · Score: 1

      Before someone corrects me, I know there is no 2G that was due to some bad copy paste.

    21. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Are you here on a discussion forum to discuss, or just spew? Goodness, manners.

      I never said that T-Mobile "lost" customers. I also never said that the G1 didn't "gain" them customers. But on balance, the G1 sales were - in the US - about 1/16 that of the iPhone. Clearly, the iPhone drew more customers to AT&T than the G1 did to T-Mobile. And it seems reasonable that the iPhone also retained more customers for AT&T than the G1 did for T-Mobile.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    22. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by cats-paw · · Score: 1

      the deal might not be approved ?

      do you live in America ?

      --
      Absolute statements are never true
    23. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? NOTHING?

      While it's true that T-Mo may have gained some customers through the G1, and that Android-based phones on the whole are putting up sales numbers larger than the iPhone by itself, the article is largely correct. Even among Android-based phones, the biggest names - Motorola's Droid, DroidX and Droid 2, are Verizon phones, not T-Mobile.

      Granted, all of us (like me) who remain with T-Mobile did so because their incredible customer service and pricing far outweighed the need to have an iPhone or a Droid. But those were major selling points that T-Mobile didn't have, that for those who found T-Mobile's coverage or speeds lacking would have tipped the balance towards them leaving. It doesn't even have to happen to a majority of customers, just enough customers to weaken their position.

      Obviously this isn't the only factor in play and is irrelevant towards why AT&T would want to buy T-Mobile, but it is the most important reason for why DT would want to sell T-Mobile USA.

      And that's why it's raining today... because God is crying, too.

    24. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by metlin · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I was one of those folks who switched from T-Mobile to AT&T because of the iPhone. Reception in our neighborhood was bad enough, and after waiting for a couple of years (and seeing how my friends using the iPhone with T-mobile had their own set of problems), I decided to switch.

      Ironically, my wife (then girlfriend) also switched from Sprint to AT&T for the same reason.

    25. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by DinDaddy · · Score: 2

      In a presentation to market analysts, ATT said this purchase would increase average revenue per user, decrease churn, and improve margins. In other words, they will take more money from each of us, we will be less likely (able?) to switch to another carrier, and they will see more profit from each of us.

      None of those give any hint of benefit to the customer. If ATT is brazenly presenting these facts to wallstreet in a public fashion prior to the merger, they must feel their lubricating lobbying activities have the plan on greased rails for approval.

    26. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Somehow I don't think that Apple went to T-Mobile. In fact, the only alternative to AT&T I remember hearing about is Verizon.

    27. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by blair1q · · Score: 1

      G1 did not attract people like the iPhone did. And every carrier has Android, so it's not a differentiator for T-Mobile.

      The Google Phone, aka Nexus One, could have been a differentiator, but Eric Schmidt kept the marketing of it to himself, and T-Mobile just got dragged in as a payola player. Beyond activating it, they don't want to hear about it. And because of that non-synergy in co-branding, the Nexus One flopped economically (although it's wizard's work technologically), and T-Mobile got almost nothing out of joining forces with Google.

      Google, BTW, could buy T-Mobile and AT&T and still have money to develop transmat beams for home use. So not becoming GoogleTel was a huge loss of opportunity for T-Mobile.

    28. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by jbolden · · Score: 1

      tmobile and sprint's networks aren't compatible. They can't merge. Sprint could merge with Verizon.

    29. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      While the significance of the iPhone seems overplayed in the article, handset exclusives generally do play a significant role in carrier competition. That is, shift the carrier competition to handset exclusives and away from "true" competition such as on price and service. Anecdotal, but everyone I know for the past couple of years has decided what phone they want and then selected the best deal from the carriers that offer it.

      There should be very little difference between carriers other than price and service, so the industry should mirror that of a mainly homogeneous utility, desperately hammering every fraction of a cent out of costs and passing the saving on through pricing. Instead they're still behaving like they're in early-mid growth stage, throwing insane cash at advertising and clearly making fat margins since you can negotiate vastly better deals than they advertise without even feeling a bit guilty afterwards.

      I do think carrier competition would be substantially increased just by preventing phone exclusives.

    30. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I really don't know why people keep talking about the G1. From what I've read elsewhere, the G1 wasn't the big seller for TM. The accounts I've read over time place Android as being a major, major draw for TM in general. TM sold far more Android models than just the G1. In fact, from what I recall, the MyTouch3G was their big mover and iPhone competitor. And in fact, unless TM has been lying, Android actually powered considerable subscriber growth.

      Also, from a merger perspective, this is very, very bad for Android owners as AT&T has an established history of restricting application installation on their phones. Which means many applications, especially non-market applications, are simply not available for these devices. Basically, no third party application installation permitted.

      At the end of the day, I do not find it the least bit credible that the lack of the iPhone on TM is the cause of the TM's sale to AT&T. Seems more like a press release to further promote AT&T and greasing of the merger wheels.

    31. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now it looks as if Verizon doesn't want Sprint either, Sprint can drown in the primordial soup as far as I'm concerned. :P

    32. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      I am not a share holder of T or an employee either, but I do have a landline which I use for fax and DSL. I recently bought the Clear gear, so when I get that set up, I won't be an T customer either. I own stocks in several corporations, none are AT &T. One of my most important investing rules is to not own stock in a company I wouldn't want to work for or do business with. There was a time when working for AT &T would have been like going to heaven. There was a time when T's customer service was the best in its industry (google Lily Tomlin for more info on that). Although customer service has improved, it still isn't up to my standards. Buying a stock purely for it's financials is a losing business if the customers leave and the smartest employees accept early retirement buyouts.

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      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    33. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by BrianPRabbit · · Score: 1

      Its like the article writers are so in bed with apple they just can't write about the iphone enough.

      Do You have any evidence of this claim? Some kind of documented kickback, perhaps?

    34. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by BrianPRabbit · · Score: 1

      Unless the Authors are receiving some sort of payoff to distribute puff pieces for Apple, I don't see how this qualifies as "spin".

    35. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      The spectrum auction did nothing to enhance iPhone service on T-Mobile USA. They bought the UTMS 1700/2100 spectrum in that auction to provide 3G service. No US iPhone, and possibly none in the world, can utilize T-Mobile USA's 3G network. They only get EDGE service on T-Mobile that wasn't part of the spectrum auction.

    36. Re:this is the weirdest story ever by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      There's nothing that says they couldn't merge, it would just be much more technically complex. Sprint could use T-Mobile's 1700/2100 3G spectrum to finish off their LTE network, much like AT&T is planning to do. That would degrade data service on T-Mobile's current handsets to 2G, exactly as AT&T plans, unless they were able to get 3G on T-Mobile's 850/1900 network like AT&T did with theirs. That might also require a T-Mobile handset refresh for continuing 3G service if they can't reprogram them remotely to get 3G data off their 850/1900 network instead. Then Sprint's future 4G handsets could be programmed to run on Sprint's network for voice and slow data, and on T-Mobile's 1700/2100 LTE network for fast data, until they were ready to push even voice data onto LTE, and then they could potentially vacate and sell their CDMA frequencies, and possibly even the overlapping T-Mobile 850/1900 frequencies.

  5. I hate the iphone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only does it have a stupid name, it creates monopolies. Besides sucking in general.

    1. Re:I hate the iphone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good! Slashdot is the perfect place for your impotent sobbing about it.

    2. Re:I hate the iphone. by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      plenty of reasons to hate if you have to. But the iphone doesn't "suck in general". It just doesn't. Get over it.

    3. Re:I hate the iphone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > But the iphone doesn't "suck in general".

      Imagine you have been handed an iPhone with no instruction manual and no prior experience of it.

      The UI is completely unintuitive and non-discoverable. That sucks.

    4. Re:I hate the iphone. by mab · · Score: 1

      Bollocks, My nieces and nephews all under 10 picked it up within minutes.

    5. Re:I hate the iphone. by roachdabug · · Score: 1

      Usually my internet irony detector works pretty well, but you actually sound serious?

    6. Re:I hate the iphone. by Wiarumas · · Score: 1

      Yes, blame the "sucking" technology that put mobile internet in the hands of millions of Americans, but not the business that capitalized on the strategic use of said technology to create an oligopoly.

      --
      I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    7. Re:I hate the iphone. by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      Imagine you have been handed an iPhone with no instruction manual and no prior experience of it.

      The UI is completely unintuitive and non-discoverable. That sucks.

      I don't have to imagine. I got mine and started using it without reading any instructions. Oh, except my sister in law had to show me how to open the SIM tray, but that's tricky on just about all phones if you don't know how.

    8. Re:I hate the iphone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well they are kind of bad
      first iphone was stuck on edge, mono bluetooth, required silly adapter to use 3.5 mm TRS jack, dropped calls when from moving from tower to tower when samsung flip phones didn't on same network
      second iphone was vastly underpowered, safari locked up constantly, less sturdy build quality than the first one, dropped calls moving from tower to tower
      third iphone had much better power; we had lots of cases of frozen up and needing restoring in itunes, same plasticy build quality - though my store actually has more glass replacements on its logs for the 3GS than 3G, whether that is evidence of a cheaper part or higher usage i couldn't say; dropped calls moving from tower to tower
      fourth iphone appropriately fast, redubbed iOS finally close to stable it seems (still some lock ups, have not had any customers needing restoring yet); our in-house tests show it doesn't drop calls when moving from tower to tower anymore! but instead drops calls when moving from one hand to the other.

      all have unfortunate audio quality over 3.5mm and bluetoothh

      iphone is, and has been, kind of a bad phone. giving the phone its due, it was groundbreaking in that it was the first phone to get touchscreen right (the secret: high quality touchscreen and finger-sized menu items WHO KNEW). other than that, features have always been behind the curve (3G, stereo bluetooth) or otherwise unwanted (facetimelol). the only innovation apple has pulled off in the last four years is lowering production costs and improving profit margins.

      dear saved up karma, it was nice knowing you.

    9. Re:I hate the iphone. by filthpickle · · Score: 0

      then you should get it checked. Because I also said was "plenty of reasons to hate it if you have to". The iphone does not suck "in general" it just doesn't. Get over it.

    10. Re:I hate the iphone. by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      oh, you mean the day I got mine. I absolutely hate itunes, But the UI on the iphone is completely and totally intuitive. You are looking for reasons that you don't need to hate if you don't think so.

    11. Re:I hate the iphone. by roachdabug · · Score: 1

      Remain calm, I replied to the anonymous coward, not you.

    12. Re:I hate the iphone. by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      "But the iphone doesn't suck in general".

      I disagree! The IPhone does suck in general. Any phone that you have to get a case for, to "Jimmy Rig" a fix for the antenna, because the company doesn't want to lose millions fixing every phone they produced most definitely does "SUCK IN GENERAL"! Not to mention as stated below the unintuitive interface, total lack of consideration for users, proprietary OS that they brick if you jail break, and last but not least a market place that takes your arm if you want to develop applications for it and then limits the type of apps you can develop. APPLE CAN TAKE A FLYING LEAP OFF THE GRAND CANION WITHOUT A PARACHUTE! To me it sounds like you probably own an IPhone and were offended by the fact that you made a poor decision in your purchase of said device. Thanks for your opinion though. ;)

    13. Re:I hate the iphone. by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      oops. my bad. I shall calm down now :)

    14. Re:I hate the iphone. by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with anything you say except the silly point about the case (everyone puts a case on their phone, and apple will give you one), and saying that it sucks in general. It doesn't have to be a statement about who you are....it's just a device.

    15. Re:I hate the iphone. by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      Well I don't disagree with anything you said.....oh wait yes I do. Not everyone puts a case on their phone. I don't have a case on my phone and I am fine with the way my phone functions without one. Ofcourse I own an Android device that doesn't have to have a case to operate. I would agree that a lot of people have cases for their phones but they should have choice as to whether or not they want a case. One should not be required to have a case or hold their phone a certain way in order for it to function properly.

    16. Re:I hate the iphone. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Canyon has a Y in it.

      No one has to "Jimmy Rig" a fix for the antenna, a small percentage of iPhones 4 had problems, all cell phones can have reception problems if held wrong.

      iPhone 1, 3, 3GS didn't have the issue iPhones 4 sometimes had.

    17. Re:I hate the iphone. by juasko · · Score: 1

      hmm... well never really had dropped calls due to switch of towers on any model. But then I'm in europe.

    18. Re:I hate the iphone. by juasko · · Score: 1

      Well i have a case on the iphone4 i have, but it's not due to antenna gate. It's because the design is way to sensitive, the prior versions of the iphone where way better from that perspective. But no I would not change my ip4 to any of those, nor any android phone.

      I'm curious about WP7, though I generally are an Apple fanboy...

    19. Re:I hate the iphone. by juasko · · Score: 1

      I would have modded you up but couldn't as i've replied here to other.

      But actually it's not the business you should blame but the government of USA that is not doing what it should do Govern. And it should govern the market so that competition is free. But now what america has is a free market, but no competition.

  6. AT&T paid too much by kmdrtako · · Score: 1

    If this is really what led to the sale, and the T-Mobile franchise will really be run as a separate business unit, then watch as that continues to shrink into nothing.

    I was getting close to jumping ship from T-Mobile anyway – not because of the iPhone (or lack of it), and not to AT&T or Verizon – they're all too expensive.

    1. Re:AT&T paid too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am paying $85/mo including taxes and fees for 1000 min, unlimited text and data but no 3G coverage at my home or work with T-Mobile. I really don't see the value in paying that much. I would be much happier with $40 and even that seems too high.

    2. Re:AT&T paid too much by Sique · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder why the prices are so high in the U.S. when it comes to mobile phones. Currently I am on a plan for 12 €/month incl. taxes (~US$17) with 2000 minutes free.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:AT&T paid too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just the difference in countries. My family plan has 3 phones, 2 data plans ($30/month each), 1000 texts, 1400 minutes. Now in the US it varies in one way, if I understand correctly in Europe, you pay for both incoming and outgoing calls? That basically cuts you down to 1000 minutes. Now if you consider the fact that I get free VerizonVerizon calls and texts any time, and if you consider that I in reality use 4500 minutes and about 2500 texts a month, almost 10,000 minutes, 5000 texts between the three phones, the total price of $125 doesn't sound so bad. I'm basically paying (after you knock the $60 off from data plans) $65/month for voice/text service for three phones, or $22 each for roughly 3 times as much minutes, Per Phone.

      It all just depends what kind of spin you put on it. Now if I used only 100 minutes a month on each phone, I would be much, much more annoyed at having to pay that much.

    4. Re:AT&T paid too much by thesandtiger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because what are we going to do, move to Europe to get a better deal on wireless?

      The have a captive audience here and the carriers have huge warchests to make sure that strong consumer protections aren't enacted.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    5. Re:AT&T paid too much by jbrandv · · Score: 1

      I have a T-mobile pre-pay plan that is $100 per year. Never hit the text/voice limits and get data through WIFI. I own my phone and all I see of this deal is that it is going to cost me more. I love my phone (Nokia N900) but may have to change since I won't give a penny to AT&T because they screwed me over in the past and they'll be the last GSM provider in the US. ;-( I hope that this is blocked at the federal level but that doesn't seem to happen any more.

    6. Re:AT&T paid too much by Sique · · Score: 2

      No, I only pay for outgoing calls. And calls within the same carrier are free for me too. SMS is not included. I never got the hang of SMS anyway, so it doesn't make a difference for me. If I was interested in SMS too, I would upgrade to a 19 € plan which includes 1000 free SMS and 1 GByte of data.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    7. Re:AT&T paid too much by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      Yeah well I am paying $99 a month on T-Mobile for unlimited everything plus I have an awesome android that is ROOTED and T-Mobile doesn't give a S*&^ that it is ROOTED. Try and do that on AT&Terrible!

    8. Re:AT&T paid too much by boreddotter · · Score: 1

      When I visited the US for training a couple of years ago, I wanted to get a local prepaid sim card to make/receive cheaper calls, AT&T was the only choice cuz T-Mobile didn't have coverage where I was and I didn't want to buy a CDMA phone cuz I saw that as a waste for only 3 weeks. to my surprise it was cheaper to use my own number to make and receive calls while roaming than it was to get an local number, which was my habit when I went to Europe and Asia.

      There are a lot of good things in the US, but telcoms are not one of them, and I feel sorry for you and the rest of the world, cuz eventually we will follow your lead... so I hope things get fixed soon.

  7. Bodes well for gentrification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in a crappy neighborhood, and now all the ghetto T-mobile shops will turn into upstanding AT&T stores. Crossing my fingers that Verizon buys Metro next.

    1. Re:Bodes well for gentrification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any Virgins in your neighborhood? they are supposed to be okay.

    2. Re:Bodes well for gentrification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't we all love Virgins?

    3. Re:Bodes well for gentrification by swalve · · Score: 1

      Virgin is just a way to rebrand Sprint's network.

    4. Re:Bodes well for gentrification by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Virgin is just a way to rebrand Sprint's network.

      A fast Virgin is OK by me...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  8. Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just knew this was Apple's fault! Thanks Steve, for the exclusivity deal that helps AT&T on its way to regain its monopoly status to the detriment of American consumers. But what do you care, you dyin' bitch! Har.

    1. Re:Typical by kmdrtako · · Score: 1

      Look who's on AT&T's Board of Directors (http://www.att.com/gen/investor-relations?pid=5629)

      Why, it's good ol' Gil Amelio – former Apple CEO for those who don't remember their Apple history.

      Now it's all clear why AT&T had its lock on the iPhone.

    2. Re:Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't Verizon reject Apple's iPhone initially? Only then, did Apple approach AT&T.

    3. Re:Typical by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      The question is who was responsible for the exclusivity. Remember all carriers before and after the iPhone had exclusive phones. Even phones like the the Motorola RAZR were not exactly cross carrier as the Verizon version was a different model than the AT&T version as they worked on different frequencies. When Apple first came onto the market, they were not a guaranteed success. AT&T had to change their network for visual voicemail and Apple was new. Exclusivity was a way to help mitigate some risk. AT&T may have pushed for it, not Apple. From what I remember, iPhone was exclusive to AT&T until 2012 unless Apple paid to end the contract. It appears Apple did so as Verizon now has it.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  9. Unlocked? by Timmmm · · Score: 1

    So why couldn't people buy the iPhone unlocked? As I understand it T-Mobile is the only network in the US that doesn't penalise you for using your own phone.

    1. Re:Unlocked? by todrules · · Score: 1

      That's true. You can actually even get cheaper monthly plans and no contract if they don't subsidize your phone. There's quite a few iPhones on TMO's network.

    2. Re:Unlocked? by gabebear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      T-Mobile uses 1700Mhz 3G and AT&T uses 1900Mhz. 1900Mhz is more of the world standard but other stuff shares this band with 3G in the USA and only AT&T uses it. They both use 850Mhz for voice and Edge.

      So you can use a iPhone on TMobile, but it will only be Edge. Same goes for a lot of phones bought with TMobile when trying to use them with AT&T or outside the US.

    3. Re:Unlocked? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      It's not a matter of locked-vs-unlocked. It's a matter of frequency. Specifically, AT&T uses 850MHz and 1900MHz for UMTS/3G. Most other countries use 1900MHz and 2100MHz for UMTS/3G. T-Mobile's spectrum happens to be 1700MHz and 2100MHz. IPhone can't do 1700MHz, ergo an iPhone -- even unlocked -- on T-Mobile is never going to get better than EDGE.

      It's not a permanent situation. Chipsets supporting T-Mobile's frequencies have been around for at least a few years. The only real question is whether the crop of iPhones coming out this summer will use them. Up to now, the decision to NOT use them has presumably been dictated by AT&T's desire to maximize the iPhone's incompatibility with T-Mobile, supported by the slightly lower cost of chips that don't support 1700MHz (savings of cents, not dollars) and Apple's complicity since T-Mobile/US is the only carrier on earth that uses 1700MHz.

      That said, if the deal looks certain to go through, expect to see the iPhone 5.1 by Christmas, with little changed besides added support for 1700MHz. Unless there's a bizarre hole in Qualcomm's chipset family that leaves them with one variant that can do all world & American UMTS frequencies, but not CDMA2000, and another variant that can do AT&T and international UMTS frequencies and CDMA2000, but not 1700 UMTS, adding 1700MHz to an existing design is barely a parts substitution at the manufacturing level.

    4. Re:Unlocked? by King+InuYasha · · Score: 0

      Well, after the acquisition is complete, all T-Mobile customers immediately get access to AT&T's 1900MHz spectrum. So those iPhones will suddenly have 3G. Also, every T-Mobile customer will be able to choose between T-Mobile towers or AT&T towers in areas where both companies have towers.

    5. Re:Unlocked? by Silentknyght · · Score: 1

      That's true. You can actually even get cheaper monthly plans and no contract if they don't subsidize your phone. There's quite a few iPhones on TMO's network.

      If you already own your own phone, this is true. A while back I did a side-by-side with comparable plans* from within T-Mobile and with comparable plans from Verizon. For the total cost over a 24-month period, it was cheaper to get a subsidized phone and pay the higher monthly fee than it was to lay out the unlocked phone cost and pay the slightly lower monthly fee.

      * Family plan with shared minimum amount of minutes, 2 smart phones, both with data packages, no texting or other add-ons.

    6. Re:Unlocked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... T-Mobile/US is the only carrier on earth that uses 1700MHz.

      Actually, Wind Mobile and Mobilicity in Canada use 1700/2100 as well.

    7. Re:Unlocked? by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      Because Apple bricks unlocked phones as soon as they discover them and most people don't want to risk buying a expensive phone to have it bricked.

    8. Re:Unlocked? by gabebear · · Score: 1

      If that really happens then AT&T would have a class action lawsuit from irate AT&T customers who have their 3G swamped by ex-T-Mobile customers. AT&T and T-Mobile already have a lot of roaming agreements and T-Mobile will be run as a separate company even after the acquisition. It should stop crap like this http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/Coverage/T-Mobile-and-AT-amp-T-roaming-agreement/td-p/132907

    9. Re:Unlocked? by todrules · · Score: 1

      That's true. From a dollar-to-dollar comparison the subsidized plans are a little better. However, you are locked into a contract. This way the wireless provider is sure to keep you. However, some people just hate contracts and like the freedom of being able to cancel at any time.

    10. Re:Unlocked? by metamatic · · Score: 1

      So why couldn't people buy the iPhone unlocked?

      Because Apple wouldn't sell it unlocked.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    11. Re:Unlocked? by Michael+Wardle · · Score: 1

      "1900Mhz is more of the world standard"

      1900 (called PCS) is used in the USA, Canada, and many South American countries, but the most common is 2100 (called IMT), which is used in Europe, Asia, Africa, and Oceania.

      And don't get me started on 1700 (AWS).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands

    12. Re:Unlocked? by Michael+Wardle · · Score: 1

      We have a similar situation in Australia where 3 was purchased by Vodafone.

      2 years on, 3 customers have access to the older Vodafone 2G network, but not Vodafone's 3G network. We assume the networks will be fully merged eventually, but the rumor is that Vodafone doesn't have the capacity to handle all the 3 customers as well.

      So it's entirely possible T-Mobile customers won't get immediate access to AT&T towers.

    13. Re:Unlocked? by King+InuYasha · · Score: 1

      It is possible, since AT&T is known for going against their word later on, when it suits them...

    14. Re:Unlocked? by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      They were called Even More Plus plans. They were postpaid and they quit offering them to new customers several months ago. But they are grandfathered for old customers, I'm on one. You could get them in a slightly different format by doing them prepaid (FlexPay), but they stopped that a couple days ago. Now they are history, along with T-Mobile it seems.

    15. Re:Unlocked? by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      The one drawback is iPhones couldn't get fast 3G data on T-Mobile. You were restricted to 2G slow data due to spectrum incompatibilities.

    16. Re:Unlocked? by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      When I ran the numbers for our T-Mobile shared plan (5 phones, 750 minutes, unlimited text, 2 with unlimited data) if our smartphones cost no more than $250, and regular phones no more than $100 (which they did by purchasing on the internet), we were saving money within 14 months. Now if I had purchased the phones in-store to avail myself of the 20 month interest free financing where unsubsidized phones are hideously overpriced (no more than other provider's stores though), I wouldn't have been saving any money over 24 months. But honestly we generally get at least 3 years out of phones anyway.

  10. T-Mobile supports the iPhone by FrostDust · · Score: 1

    Wasn't T-Mobile in the news a while ago because although they don't sell it, they said they'd give tech support to their customers who managed to carrier-unlock an iPhone on their own?

    You'd have to pay the unsubsidized price, but you can still be an iPhone user and a T-mobile customer.

    1. Re:T-Mobile supports the iPhone by dave024 · · Score: 2

      Just no 3G service....

    2. Re:T-Mobile supports the iPhone by bhcompy · · Score: 1

      Yes. My brother works for Apple and purchased an unlocked iPhone through them. He uses T-Mobile

    3. Re:T-Mobile supports the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you cannot carrier-unlock an AT&T iPhone (not legitimately anyway). The only way to get T-Mobile service on an iPhone in the USA would be to import an unlocked one from overseas.

  11. Well, T-Mobile by JamesP · · Score: 1

    You said no to the iPhone. You and all other US carriers

    AT&T said yes

    So cry me a river...

    --
    how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    1. Re:Well, T-Mobile by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the 6 or 7 publishers who turned down Harry Potter.

      Or the studio that let a young director whose name rhymes with "Greedo Shot First" keep sole merchandising rights on a little space-based movie because they figured it had zero potential.

    2. Re:Well, T-Mobile by thodi · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Well, T-Mobile by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Because it debuted on AT&T. Then other operators saw the potential.

      Don't get me started on German management!!!!!

      Also, T-Mobile is much stronger on Germany than in the USA (because it's a subsidiary on the USA), probably like Orange on France

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    4. Re:Well, T-Mobile by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Or the guy who paid full price for a lottery ticket with the wrong numbers on it.

      Hey, I didn't rush out and load up on AT&T stock when they got the iPhone, did you?

    5. Re:Well, T-Mobile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really doubt they said no to the iPhone, otherwise they wouldn't have picked it up as it's exclusive carrier in Germany directly after it's launch.

    6. Re:Well, T-Mobile by JamesP · · Score: 1

      This was while the iPhone was in development, all Steve Jobs had were some prototypes and 'it's going to be like this and that, etc'

      T-Mobile Germany probably only knew about it after the keynote

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    7. Re:Well, T-Mobile by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, I don't live in the US and have no personal state in the well being of one of its cellular carriers.

    8. Re:Well, T-Mobile by KH · · Score: 1

      The irony is, T-Mobile/Telekom was the sole supplier of iPhone in their home country, Germany.

    9. Re:Well, T-Mobile by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Do you have a reference for that? I only remember Verizon being offered the iPhone in the USA. AT&T was their obvious second choice. Given T-Mobile welcoming Google/Android with open arms, if this is true, I guess they quickly, but too late, learned their lesson.

    10. Re:Well, T-Mobile by JamesP · · Score: 1
      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    11. Re:Well, T-Mobile by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I read that long ago, and just reread it to be sure. Nowhere does it say Jobs approached T-Mobile, or anyone other than Verizon and AT&T. It even implies without specifically saying, that AT&T was his first partner, and when they were having negotiating difficulties, he tried Verizon who rejected the idea outright.

    12. Re:Well, T-Mobile by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's what I realized by rereading...

      But, still, I'm not sure about the whole process... of course SJ wanted total secrecy and pitching to only one company would be better, but still, the article mentions "no other carrier would give the level of freedom Apple wanted", so it hints at him offering to other companies (maybe it was only a preliminary discussion, no actual iPhone involved).

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    13. Re:Well, T-Mobile by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      "no other carrier would give the level of freedom Apple wanted"

      Given that there were no other indications of dicussion with other carriers in the piece, I took that as a bit of writer hyperbole. Sprint and Verizon were known for locking down their devices strictly. Verizon was in the catbird seat of the industry and would have little internal motivation to innovate. Sprint and T-Mobile were small players on the national scene, good coverage in some regions, not great in others. And there were no other good options besides Apple wholesaling minutes. As much as I love T-Mobile, If I was SJ, I would have asked AT&T first, Verizon second, T-Mobile, then Sprint, and then I would have gone wholesale, unless I felt like that would slow my negotiations and at some point I might need to jump direct to wholesaling minutes.

  12. When they dropped the Palm phones by siriuskase · · Score: 1

    It would have taken longer for Palm users to switch to iPhones if T Mobile had continued to support them. A lot of Palm users still are on with the $10 data plan, but no help from customer service, you have to work it out yourself. I wonder if I can move my SIM to an iPhone? My Centro is dying.

    --
    If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    1. Re:When they dropped the Palm phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just did that with my Treo 680. Except I went the android route; someone gave me a Freebie G1 for helping them upgrade.

      The $5 data plan (T-Zones) will work for a few hrs, then they'll block it. I'm unsure if they blocked it because they recognized the IEMI # of the tmo-branded phone, or if they are able to sense the Type/Brand of the phone.

      I decided to drop the t-zones plan, and get the $10/mo data plan (200mb/mo), i'm not a heavy network user. (The advertized $10/mo plan is for new customers only, but the rep gave it to me anyway, normally it would of been $15)

  13. Nothing to do with the iPhone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to the business sites, AT&T is going after T-Mobile for their spectrum - AT&T is hoping that T-Mobile's spectrum will help them with the connection and quality issues.

    It has nothing to do with the iPhone or the Android.

    1. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by grapes911 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure AT&T is going after T-Mobile's spectrum and even their infrastructure to an extent. That does not explain why T-Mobile is selling though. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons. The iPhone may very well be one of them. Your comment does nothing to debunk that.

    2. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by Sique · · Score: 1

      From AT&T's side, yes. But why should T-Mobile sell it to AT&T in the first place, if it is so wonderful?

      You are only looking at the AT&T side of the deal, while the article was looking at the side of T-Mobile.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That does not explain why T-Mobile is selling though. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons. I think there are around $39 billion reasons to sell T-Mobile.

    4. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by swalve · · Score: 1

      39 billion reasons. Why go through all the trouble of running a phone company and hoping to make a profit at the end of the year when you have some sucker willing to pay above market value for it?

    5. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by Desler · · Score: 1

      DT is selling because it is having money issues and $39 billion goes a long way to helping that.

    6. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      T-Mobile isn't very healthy in the rest of the world either so giving up the US market might give them enough cash to survive on the other markets.

    7. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by imahawki · · Score: 1

      Except one of the DOJ requirements for the deal MAY be selling off part of the spectrum.

    8. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Heh. Have they USED T-Mobile?

      Choppy, variable, and not as well-distributed as their map claims. It's better than AT&T's, but it's no miracle cure.

    9. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      DT lost money on tmobile.

    10. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Maybe in your neck of the woods. But I've never had a problem with their coverage anywhere in TX and within about 30 miles of more than a few major airports in the USA.

    11. Re:Nothing to do with the iPhone. by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I doubt they'd be forced to give up any of T-Mobile's 3G 1700/2100 spectrum that they are committing to use for LTE. In areas where the only other cell provider is AT&T on 850/1900 Voice/EDGE/3G, they might be forced to give up T-Mobile's 850/1900 Voice/EDGE spectrum. But since there are no other national GSM networks, the spectrum would be worthless to all but some startup regional cell company. That might be nice for that local area, but does nothing for the national market.

  14. 150$ due ebay, 3 mo., over 300 collection calls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all refused by my iphone

  15. Have been prepaid for years now by Shivetya · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I switched to prepay about two years ago, having had my share of $50 plus per month cell contracts. Watching people pay $80 or more per month for their phones both amazes me and depresses me. They are still too much status symbol than need so the price doesn't have to be justified in the minds of many. Figure nearly a thousand a year just to have a 'smart' phone, for some its more.

    Once you adapt to prepaid phones; this means adapting your friends to the fact you have one too; you rack up a lot of free time. By free I mean, not stuck on the phone or jumping at every e-mail/etc notification. Then to top it off with $50 or more in savings a month you start getting into the habit of looking at other expenses (monthlies) and realizing there is money to be saved everywhere, let alone time. Take that $1000 a year and put it into an IRA. You will get more from that than your cell phone could ever return.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 0

      I wish I have mod points for you.

      --
      Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    2. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 2

      I wish I HAD an edit button.

      --
      Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    3. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Drethon · · Score: 1

      I used a prepay phone for years, ~$120 a year for my use of the phone. Unfortunately work no longer wants to assign work phones and they like to block my college e-mail so a phone with an internet plan has become more necessary. So far I've only seen prepaid talk plans...

    4. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      Totally agree...I'm emailing the comment immediately to my kids; probably won't change their behaviour, but will definitely make them pause to think....

      cheers,

    5. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I wish I HAD an edit button.

      Haven't you heard? Slashdot doesn't believe in editing OF ANY KIND.

    6. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by MikeDirnt69 · · Score: 1

      No, I'm deaf!

      --
      Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
    7. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by hexavalent · · Score: 1

      You should check out Virgin Mobile. My wife and I just switched over from AT&T a few months ago. Our Android phones are on an unlimited data/text plan with 300 minutes for $25 per month (per phone). The network is Sprint, and our coverage has been much better than we had with AT&T. Best of all, there is no contract.

    8. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Haven't you heard? Slashdot doesn't believe in editing OF ANY KIND.

      That's a feature, not a bug. Quit yer bitching.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    9. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Drethon · · Score: 1

      I'm with Verizon right now and I don't believe the network is compatible (if its compatible with AT&T phone) so I'd have to buy a new phone. I'll look into near the end of my current contract though, thanks.

    10. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by tooyoung · · Score: 2

      I completely agree that $80 a month is ridiculous for a phone, or most any type of subscription. With that said, I am a bit tired of the generalization that anyone with a smart phone is just a trend-consious hipster trotting out a status symbol. I've never known anyone that fits this stereotype. Rather, I see people using the phone as a convenient appliance.

      When I'm at the airport, I read the internet without paying to connect to some ridiculous wireless portal.
      When I'm on a flight, I'll have about 4 slashdot stories that I can read pre-loaded on the phone. This will eat up about 30-60 minutes, depending on the topics. I can also play games or watch music videos, TV shows, or movies.
      When I'm out at a restaurant and get stuck watching the table while my friends go outside for a smoke, I can check sports scores or my favorite websites.
      When I'm stuck in a line at a grocery store, I can surf the web.

      Please note, I'm not "jumping at every email/notification". I check my non-work email about twice a week. I typically forget to respond to text messages because I'm not much of a texter. My smartphone doesn't shackle me to the web. Instead it allows me to kill free time. Traveling is no longer a chore because I always have something to do. Waiting in a line isn't such a big deal because I have stuff that I can do. It is all just about convenience, and this is what I observe with other smartphone users. Insinuating that people are sheep with a desire for shiny trinkets is really just ignoring why appliances like smartphones and tablets are taking off.

    11. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by boriquajake · · Score: 0

      Take that $1000 a year and put it into an IRA. You will get more from that than your cell phone could ever return.

      Only someone who doesn't have a real job or own a small business could think that. Honestly, if the increased productivity of having a smart phone doesn't give me a better return on my investment than I could get with an IRA then I must be a pretty dim bulb.

      --
      I only scored 35% on the Nerd Test, I'm sorry.
    12. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by imahawki · · Score: 2

      I think this concept of phones as a status symbol is bunk. Or maybe its where I live and the circle I run with. I don't show my phone to people and I'm the only one who uses it. How is it a status symbol if no one cares, including me? I buy a cell phone based on what I want it to do, features that I like. I think the plans are too expensive frankly but they're all about the same and I want nationwide coverage so I swallow it and move on. Its irking that everything that is above the entry level is automatically tagged as a status symbol.

    13. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by uniquename72 · · Score: 2

      I'll add: When I'm driving, I get GPS and traffic info direct to my device.
      When I travel (frequently!), I get public transit info without having to decipher a new set of maps in every city.
      When I'm in the grocery store, I can immediately see if what I'm buying is cheaper at the store across the street. (I probably save $25 per month just in comparison shopping this way.)

    14. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Well, it's nice that prepaid works for you.

      But for some of us, prepaid would be the difference between a $130/month phone bill with unlimited voice, data, and text and a $400 - $600 phone bill just for voice with prepaid.

      I use the cell phone for work and it's my only home phone, so I'm saving home and business phone bills, and while I suppose I don't have to talk on the phone, it's kind of nice to be able to make enough money to pay my bills, so while the free time might be nice, sleeping under a bridge wouldn't be.

    15. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by 228e2 · · Score: 1

      Your post intrigues me.

      Do you get text messaging in that plan too? And does your data plan include navigation? The reason I switched to Sprint because their everything plan including navigation, so I figured using that instead of a standalone GPS was cheaper and worth it. But I would be up for going to VM if it is what you say it is.

      And as the other reply asked, how are you on Sprint's network with VM? Not calling you a liar, just curious. Thanks.

      --
      Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
    16. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by juasko · · Score: 1

      well in that case it's anyway your company that pays the bills, not you.

    17. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow... your kids must really hate you.

    18. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      With t-mobile prepay, you can get "unlimited data 24hour passes" for $1.50/day -- $45/month. That's pretty cheap for unlimited data. And it works out cheaper because of the many work days where you make do with wifi at home and at the office and can skip the 24hour pass for that day.

    19. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by sootman · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the old "This is what works for me, anyone who thinks or does otherwise is stupid." Nice. For how much use I get out of it, my phone would be a bargain at twice the price.

      Tell me, do you eat frozen food, or in restaurants, or drive a car, or own a TV? Have cable, hulu, Netflix, air conditioning, or more than 5 changes of clothes? Give me five minutes online and I'll find someone who thinks you're dumb, too, and will be happy to explain how you could be better spending your money.

      Or you could get off your damn high horse and realize that different people have different needs, wants, and priorities.

      Besides, being that I'm a rich, arrogant, snobby, self-absorbed smartphone-owning asshole, what makes you think I'm not already socking away a few grand a year?

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    20. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably aren't familiar with the Android experience, or you'd know that navigation is built it. It's Google's standard Google Maps navigation, and it works really damn well. Turn by turn, rerouting to avoid accidents and tolls, and realtime traffic notification. I'm sorry you're used to paying for navigation information, but on Android it's included by default, and free.

      And yes, it uses your standard data connection. You can get your data via wifi too instead of via the carrier. As I said, it's using Google, so all it needs is a tcp connection to google.com

    21. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      You weren't able to use the same phone on Virgin as you were on AT&T right? I think Virgin/Sprint is CDMA, and won't work with AT&T GSM phones. When AT&T inevitably screws with my T-Mobile Even More Plus plan, I plan on going to Virgin. I just hope I can find a reasonably priced Sprint Android phone to use on Virgin from eBay/Craigslist that is supported by CyanogenMod, like an Evo Shift for under $250 by then...

    22. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      http://www.virginmobileusa.com/cell-phone-plans/beyond-talk-plans.jsp Yeah, he said it was unlimited text, unlimited data, and 300 voice minutes. If you are using an Android phone and using Google Navigation, you don't have to have any special navigation plan. It runs off your data connection to Google's servers. Technically if you always connect to Wifi, plan your route, then leave and never reroute, you wouldn't even need a cellular data plan because it caches your route.

      Virgin Mobile definitely runs on Sprint's network. And I think there was a misunderstanding that he didn't take the same phone from AT&T to Virgin. I bet he sold the AT&T one and got a similar one on Virgin.

    23. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by 228e2 · · Score: 1

      Well, im familiar with using wifi in lieu of data plans, but last may when i switched from at&t to sprint, i did so because i wanted plan that was slanted towards data (for navigation) and texting and less call minutes because thats the bulk of my phone usage.

      This was my first smart phone purchase. Sprint offered the best plan out of the "Big 4". I didnt take Virgin Mobile into much consideration because I no one I knew could speak on its reliability outside of a major city. I guess my biggest hangup is I didnt want to pay $300 for a phone that sits in my car 40 hours a week and sits docked at home at like 5:15 every day.

      --
      Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
    24. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by 228e2 · · Score: 1

      Ah. I'll have to look into this closer to when I can get out of my contract. As I said above, my biggest concern with not going with one of the Big 4 was coverage outside a metro. Thanks.

      --
      Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
    25. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      Virgin Mobile and Boost are both on Sprint's network. They should be able to reprogram your Verizon phone. I'm pretty sure Cricket Wireless is also CDMA. The day my contract expires (if I don't choose to pay the ETF just to get away from Verizon Wireless early), I'll be taking my Droid to one of them.

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    26. Re:Have been prepaid for years now by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Ah cool, thanks for the heads up!

  16. Re:fake weather, induced seismicity, unkindest cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is this, some kind of "the very best of" collection?

  17. One word - Flexpay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The main reason of T-Mobile's problems is one product - Flexpay. They went after the "subprime" market, and then they found out later that (Surprise!) they don't pay their bills. And the horrifically buggy implementation of this product has done nothing but hurt T-Mobile. It greatly affects time-to-market for almost all projects, which really hurts the business and causes them to lose postpaid customers.

    1. Re:One word - Flexpay by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      FlexPay was prepaid service on any offered postpay plan. At most T-Mobile could get stuffed with overages for one month, and I bet they cut it off relatively quickly. I can't imagine this being a real factor in their loss of subscribers. This part about it affecting their time-to-market for other projects (products) is interesting. It sounds like you have some insider info about what is going on there.

  18. monopoly stifles competition by darkeye · · Score: 1

    a clear example of limiting market competition via monopolistic means

    and of course as there is no real competition among iPhone phone carriers, they have to pay a premium for the service...

  19. The iPhone was a piece of it by Voyager529 · · Score: 5, Informative

    But it wasn't the whole puzzle. Sure, T-Mobile lost some customers to the iPhone over the years, but so did Verizon. The problem is that they were impacted more because they had a smaller number of customers to begin with.

    T-Mobile had a particular niche that they served better than anyone else - the deaf community. Rag on the Sidekick all you want, but not only did they work better for the deaf community through pervasive TTY services, they had a specific plan for it, too. They just killed that service, effectively making enemies of some of their most fiercely loyal customers. Similarly, T-Mobile was known for not putting pressure on the handset OEMs to provide Android updates; it's among the most common complaints of Samsung owners.

    T-Mobile tried competing with AT&T on the same merits that AT&T used to compete with Verizon. This was foundationally problematic, because they didn't stick to their strengths. "No data overage fees, ever" - that's all they had to say, and they would have had PLENTY of people who have had the pleasure of disputing $300-$800 of data overages. They could have implemented a spending cap to prevent outrageous bills, better advertised their international wi-fi calling, better advertised their bring-your-own-phone programs, and done something like "If you don't love us in 60 days, we'll refund every dime and help you go back to your old service, no questions asked". While I've heard a bad customer service story here and there for T-Mobile, my eight years of being a customer there have been an absolute pleasure. If they advertised that aspect of it, they might have been able to change some minds instead of trying to say "we can do what the iPhone does too"

    It probably wouldn't have hurt to make it known that all the handsets they featured in their commercials run Android, just like the Verizon handsets, because lots of people think Android==Droid==Verizon Exclusive.

    The fine article is correct in saying that T-Mobile couldn't compete with the iPhone at the hip-handset level. It fails to mention that there were plenty of other places where T-Mobile could have competed against AT&T and Verizon and won out, but didn't.

    1. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by acidfast7 · · Score: 1

      sh

    2. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it wasn't the whole puzzle. Sure, T-Mobile lost some customers to the iPhone over the years, but so did Verizon. The problem is that they were impacted more because they had a smaller number of customers to begin with.

      T-Mobile had a particular niche that they served better than anyone else - the deaf community. Rag on the Sidekick all you want, but not only did they work better for the deaf community through pervasive TTY services, they had a specific plan for it, too. They just killed that service, effectively making enemies of some of their most fiercely loyal customers. Similarly, T-Mobile was known for not putting pressure on the handset OEMs to provide Android updates; it's among the most common complaints of Samsung owners.

      T-Mobile tried competing with AT&T on the same merits that AT&T used to compete with Verizon. This was foundationally problematic, because they didn't stick to their strengths. "No data overage fees, ever" - that's all they had to say, and they would have had PLENTY of people who have had the pleasure of disputing $300-$800 of data overages. They could have implemented a spending cap to prevent outrageous bills, better advertised their international wi-fi calling, better advertised their bring-your-own-phone programs, and done something like "If you don't love us in 60 days, we'll refund every dime and help you go back to your old service, no questions asked". While I've heard a bad customer service story here and there for T-Mobile, my eight years of being a customer there have been an absolute pleasure. If they advertised that aspect of it, they might have been able to change some minds instead of trying to say "we can do what the iPhone does too"

      It probably wouldn't have hurt to make it known that all the handsets they featured in their commercials run Android, just like the Verizon handsets, because lots of people think Android==Droid==Verizon Exclusive.

      The fine article is correct in saying that T-Mobile couldn't compete with the iPhone at the hip-handset level. It fails to mention that there were plenty of other places where T-Mobile could have competed against AT&T and Verizon and won out, but didn't.

      Not. I'm totally opposed to ATT taking over anything!!! They are crooks, I disassociated myself from their land-line services, I disassociated myself from their cell phone services and now they are trying to get past me on that. Cell phones are phones, period. Trendy phones and services are fine. T-Mobile served me well in my escape from overpriced gouging monopolistic companies like ATT. Now they, like Fanny Mae are buying me back against my will. I thought this was America!!!! Land of choices. I just lost my free choice if ATT is not stopped.

    3. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 1

      I find it interesting that market analysts consider _handset exclusivity_ to be a credible reason for a network operator to be an unsustainable business.

      It's further evidence, in my opinion, that handset exclusivity is tremendously damaging to the health of the American mobile data/voice marketplace. In some countries, tying handset availability to specific network service providers is actually illegal under trade practices acts. It's pretty clear that the current toxic American phone marketplace is greatly advantageous to the oligopoly of top-tier incumbents, but it's very bad for the marketplace customers.

      Yet again, we see the ironic result that the market badly needs more regulation, to make it more free. Customers are losing because the network providers aren't competing on the basis of network provision, and the phone makers aren't able to compete freely on their handset's merits because the customers of the handset makers are the network providers, not the actual phone users.

    4. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by JSBiff · · Score: 1

      T-Mobile had, what I thought was, a very innovative feature of their network. They supported a technology called UMA (which T-Mobile marketted under various names; I think most recently as "Unlimited Hotspot Calling").

      The idea was that phones that supported it, could make calls over a Wifi broadband internet connection - it used the same basic digital protocols as the regular GSM network, I believe, but just routed the data over Wifi when available, instead of over the cellular network. If you left the wifi hotspot, it would try to seamlessly transition back to the cellular network.

      They sold this as a $10/mo "add-on", where the calls initiated on Wifi were not billed against your monthly limits.

      This was brilliant, I thought, for a number of reasons, and T-Mobile was the ONLY carrier which had the technology deployed in the U.S.

      Unfortunately, their marketing dept. had no idea what to do with it. They made, I think, 2 critical mistakes:

      1) They shouldn't have made it a $10/mo add-on. They should have used it as a way to lure new customers from other carriers. Make it free. Tell people they can talk all they want, whenever they want, over Wifi, plus offer competitively priced plans for the cellular service, and try to steal customers away from other networks.

      2) The major problem with this feature, for T-Mobile, was that only like 10% of their phones supported it in its 'heyday', and once 3G smartphones came out, T-Mobile did NOT require their phone makers to support the Wifi calling feature - basically, after the G1 was released, almost no new phones supported the Wifi calling (including the G1). It's useless to have a feature that your network supports, but none of your phones do.

      If I was the CEO of T-MO USA I would have *required* all new phones to support Wifi calling, or I wouldn't sell them from my stores.

      I don't know if the Wifi calling would have saved T-Mo, probably not. It's not really a *killer* feature, but it was a nice idea - when you are at home, or at a friend or family members home who has Wifi, you get guaranteed good coverage, even if they don't live in a T-Mo coverage area (or when you are travelling on business, etc - basically, anywhere you could find a Wifi hotspot to connect to, you had "great coverage", and Wifi is everywhere, just about).

      I just mention this because, in addition to the things the parent mentioned, this was another one of those places where T-Mo management just failed to execute on one of their strengths. Any time you have a feature nobody else does, even if it's not a killer feature, you still try to market it - leverage your uniqueness in the market.

    5. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      T-Mobile had a particular niche that they served better than anyone else - the deaf community.

      Well you know they're not going to use Verizon...

    6. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      T-Mobile's problems was that their peering agreements usually only benefitted their subscribers in LA and NY City. I lived one mile from I-5 in OR in the state capital, my house was on a hill and I lost calls and could barely hear anything in my house (no, it wasn't made out of cement or brick, just wood with almost no insulation). In Portland it's no better, especially if you live in a hilly area (Portland has a lot of these). T-Mobile's call quality killed them more than anything. A lot of folks wanted to be on a network that didn't treat us like shit but used Sprint or something else instead because their network was far more reliable.

    7. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

      The problem with UMA is that it needs handset-side support. Was Google going to implement UMA for the G1? Probably not.
      Likewise, all those other phones which didn't have it.

    8. Re:The iPhone was a piece of it by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Google could have, but they are pretty selective in features and bugs they think are worthy of Android addressing. Many Blackberries had UMA and it worked good. The HTC G2 has UMA, along with I think the Samsung Vibrant. CyanogenMod has it in version 7. I've heard it isn't as good about transitioning from WiFi to the cell network during a call. It used to require tight integration with the hardware. I think T-Mobile commissioned an independent company to write a more platform independent software only implementation for them, but by that time, it was too late to mean anything substantial to the company.

  20. I was a happy T-Mobile customer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until I bought the T-Mobile Wang, I mean, Wing, an HTC-manufactured Windows Mobile phone. I'd been moderately pleased with my old HTC WinMob phone, so it was an easy choice at upgrade time.

    After three new Wings, my contract ran out, and I went and bought two new Apple ]|[gses. Have not had any issues of note. AT&T had some trouble transferring my wife's number over, and ended up charging me a cancellation fee on the temporary number they assigned her, which they refunded after I complained, along with the activation fees on both phones for my troubles.

    When her iPhone was acting up two weeks ago, I made my appointment at the Apple store, and they replaced it on-the-spot. No waiting in line for two and a half hours at a store for them to tell me it's busted. No worrying about redirecting a UPS shipment to my office. No returning the old phone to a T-Mobile store, or dropping it off at a UPS store. No activation nonsense with a warranty replacement. Just a new, working phone, and I walk out of the store.

    It's tough to feel bad for T-Mobile after what I went through during my last two years with them.

  21. GSM by ks9208661 · · Score: 1

    I need a GSM phone because of my international travels. I bought an AT&T prepaid SIM card back in 2007 but let it expire 6 months ago because of all the dropped calls and the overcharges I had in my last stay in the US. I was planning to buy a T-Mobile prepaid SIM card in my next trip, but now this news came out.

    If this takeover gets approved, who else will compete against AT&T in the GSM space?

    1. Re:GSM by thopkins · · Score: 1

      Verizon and Sprint been selling phones for years that have a GSM radio for use overseas. This is commonly known. I've never had one but heard that Verizon will unlock it for you if you ask.

    2. Re:GSM by ks9208661 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they have it only in certain phones. A friend of mine who has a Droid was given a loaner GSM phone with his usual Verizon number when he went to Europe.

    3. Re:GSM by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      No one in the USA, especially with national coverage. Maybe there are some very small regional players, maybe... If you are a non-US citizen, I'd suggest a cheap phone and pay as you go on Virgin or Boost when you are here.

  22. Here we go again... by Temujin_12 · · Score: 1

    My wife and I payed good money to get out of an AT&T contract several years ago and went over to T-mobile. We can't seem to get away from that company.

    Rate hikes for everyone in 3... 2... 1...

    --
    Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
    1. Re:Here we go again... by Khue · · Score: 1

      10 years ago my first cell phone was from AT&T. I had a basic Nokia phone with some low level call plan and free nights and weekends. Month after month, I had a different bill. It was absolutely infuriating. A plan that should have cost me only 68.00 a month was costing me anywhere between 75 and 120 dollars a month. The swing difference per month was often 20 dollars or more. My phone usage was exactly the same every month but they would always come up with an excuse like, "oh well you started this call at 5:58 which means you weren't on night mode yet so that entire call gets billed like it was during normal hours." I've had T-Mobile for upwards of 8 years and my bill is the-exact-same-every-fkn-month on the dot without fail. I have unlimited text, data, and voice and here's the best part, it fits my budget. With UMA mode, I am never without signal. This is the other problem I have, the biggest complaint I hear about them is that they don't have good service. When I ask people if they use UMA mode, they sit there and look at me like a brain dead Walmart greeter. INFURIATING. Now I will have to go back to the shitty customer service that is AT&T? Are you kidding me? What about my unlimited plan? Will that be honored? Probably not or probably not for the same rate. This is seriously such a kick in the balls. T-Mobile was the best carrier for the price and if people would take 15 seconds to figure out UMA mode the signal/quality argument would just go right out the window. INFURIATING.

    2. Re:Here we go again... by cptdondo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that worries me. I pay a relatively small amount for 4 phones. Under AT&T's rate plans, I can see my rates go through the roof.

      Also, T-Mobile will unlock your phone on request. Lastly, I really like T-Mobile's customer service. They are polite and professional.

      The only time I had a billing issue they fixed it, no problem. I've been with them 8 years, and I can see that under this deal I am going to get raped.

      I pay $125 a month including all fees. The closest plan I can find with AT&T will cost me $110 plus fees just for the 4 phones. Unlimited messaging is $30, up from T-Mobile's $25. I can expect my cost to go up to about $150/month.... Add to that AT&T's renowned customer service, and I'm one happy customer. Way to go, good deal for the consumer.

    3. Re:Here we go again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife and I payed good money to get out of an AT&T contract several years ago and went over to T-mobile. We can't seem to get away from that company.

      Ah so we T-Mobile users can blame you. Thanks, not!

    4. Re:Here we go again... by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I feel your pain, and if you can stomach being an AT&T customer for a little while, all I can suggest is if you are off-contract, sign up for a 2 year plan in about 9 months, and you'll get almost 3 more years of probably similar service, or if they don't you'll be able to cancel. Me, I'm going to risk staying on my non-contract Even More Plus plan as long as they'll let me, and the minute AT&T increases my rate, decreases my internet cap, or discontinues @Home, I'l bolt for Virgin. I hate AT&T for many reasons, including rolling over and playing dead for the NSA, and hate that my money will go to them for a little while, but I don't see a good alternative being that I really like my @Home phone service too. I really doubt AT&T can keep their greedy hands to themselves for long.

  23. Anticapitalism. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

    T-Mobile is cheaper than AT&T. If acquisition = cost performance, everyone will pay less than current T-Mobile rates. But we know that will never happen. Macro business is all about leverage. AT&T had enough of it to make the government cave. Next victim is the consumer who has none of it.

    1. Re:Anticapitalism. by overlordofmu · · Score: 1

      I have a Nokia N900. Unlocked phone, no rooting needed. I can only get service from one of two providers in my area. T-Mobile or AT&T as the N900 needs a SIM card and Sprint, Verizon and US Cellular do not offer them, only T-Mobile and AT&T. The cost of an unlimited plan from AT&T (voice, text, data) is $120 a month. From T-Moblie it is $70. Which do you think I chose? What choice will I have tomorrow? I am afraid the answer to that is a choice between $120 and $120.

    2. Re:Anticapitalism. by cptdondo · · Score: 1

      So quit whining on ./ and send email to the FCC. Don't forget to include name address, and phone #.

      Include hard numbers, quoting rate plans and service levels.

      http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html

    3. Re:Anticapitalism. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but if emailing, mailing, gathering signatures, or even peaceful protests worked, we'd all have cheaper cable.

  24. No more 3G by Rozzin · · Score: 1

    T-Mobile supports the iPhone... just no 3G service....

    3G service in the US is still pretty close to nonexistent outside of a couple of major metropolitan areas, anyway. If the network isn't there, it doesn't really matter what your phone supports.

    And one of the most disturbing prospects of a merger between the two GSM/UMTS network owners is that it's actually going to reduce the incentives for any provider improve that situation with new infrastructure buildout, which is pretty dangerous when the existing incentive is already zero .

    And we're not just talking about reducing the competitive forces (which ESR cites as being the only thing motivating new buildout) by a mere ~25%, we're talking about reducing the competitive forces in the international standards-based market by 100%, moving us into a situation where moving to a different carrier guarantees the hardship of buying a whole new set of phones--and, if you're moving away from `the GSM company', the additional hardship of giving up international roaming.

    We may well see network-growth stop, as a result of this--or at least slow down a whole lot.

    --
    -rozzin.
    1. Re:No more 3G by metamatic · · Score: 1

      3G service in the US is still pretty close to nonexistent outside of a couple of major metropolitan areas, anyway.

      Hyperbole much?

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:No more 3G by Rozzin · · Score: 1

      To answer your question: no, there's not much hyperbole in what I said.

      I see 3G service depicted on that T-Mobile coverage-map as a few tiny black splotches located on major population-centres; and, going by that map, >99% of the US has neither `Fast Mobile Web' nor `Very Fast Mobile Web'--and about 50% of the country still has No Mobile Web.

      Of course, the AT&T map looks pretty similar, as I recallâ"so the specific idea that iPhone users in one of AT&T's many and large `no 3G' zones would be bothered by the lack of 3G service on T-mobile is at least a little goofy.

      What exactly are you seeing that you think contradicts what I'm saying?

      --
      -rozzin.
    3. Re:No more 3G by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Killeen TX, Owatonna MN, and Yakima WA are not by any stretch of the imagination "major population centers", to pick three random towns in the middle of rural nowhere that I've been to.

  25. ATT infrastructure by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

    Actually, I think the deal had to do with the iPhone, just not how the article presented it. When AT&T's infrastructure struggled with the high demand of usage for bandwidth since the release of the iPhone, AT&T had to scale up in a hurry. TMobile has a large 4G infrastructure rolled out already, AT&T is working on it. I think that was probably the most important factor in deciding to purchase them.

    1. Re:ATT infrastructure by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      Not exactly, but tangentially. T-Mobile's 3G and "4G" network is on 1700/2100, which no iPhone in the USA can use. So it won't give AT&T iPhone customers an immediate benefit. Future AT&T phones will get what is technically 4G (but in practice about the same speed as T-Mobile's fake 4G) from a recommissioned 1700/2100 LTE band. AT&T may be able to squeeze some 3G onto T-Mobile's 850/1900 network that is currently only servicing voice and 2G. On AT&T they got 3G in that band too. Not sure why T-Mobile couldn't. Perhaps there just wasn't enough available nationwide and they didn't want to put 3G on 4 bands instead of only 2.

    2. Re:ATT infrastructure by tivoKlr · · Score: 1

      Is there a technical reason that current iPhones cannot use 1700mHz, or could a software/firmware update change the landscape of iPhone data reception?

      --
      Ocean is land, covered with water.
    3. Re:ATT infrastructure by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      The Infineon chip either supports or doesn't support the 1700 mhz band, depending on who you talk to. The chip spec sheets I've been able to track down don't mention 1700 mhz. If the chip supports it, there is a remote chance a firmware update could get it working. But I have never heard of a cell device where the manufacturer and operator chose to enable different bands with a firmware update. It would probably require another FCC device licensing round. I don't think they generally feel like it is worth it when then can just sell you a new device after a 2 year contract. Also with AT&T wanting to shut down T-Mobile's 1700/2100 network probably within a year of takeover and change it to LTE, I think the chances of an iPhone firmware update that enabled the T-Mobile 3G network even if it was technically possible are somewhere between not going to happen and not a chance in hell.

  26. Prepaid data is available by Comboman · · Score: 1

    Prepaid data plans are available, however most are not any cheaper than contract plans, so all you gain is not being locked-in for three years.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    1. Re:Prepaid data is available by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Between my company discount with Verizon and only having one year contract (due to paying an extra $50 for my phone) I think the contract currently comes out a tad better.

    2. Re:Prepaid data is available by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That page is not accurate. I pay $27/mo (including taxes) for a prepaid plan with unlimited data from Virgin Mobile.

  27. Google dropped the ball, again. T-Mobile = Sun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Oracle purchased Sun, I bet Google execs kicked themselves for not buying Sun first.

    The same thing with T-Mobile. It would've been a perfect match and Google could've used T-Mobile to do many things beneficial to both Google and wireless consumers.

    If any of you Googlers are reading this, shoot an email to Larry Page asking him to consider buying T-Mobile if the AT&T deal falls apart.

  28. no help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, the sale won't help T-Mo customers get iPhones.... or help AT&T get THIS customer. If the sale goes thru, I'm out.
    I WILL NOT be an AT&T customer again. Even if I have to give up the flexibility of a gsm sim card, I won't give AT&T my cash.

    (Did you notice buried in the news release that one of the benefits of the sale would be the ability to raise customer rates? Nice. I'm out.)

  29. The G1? Really? by hellfire · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, the story is hyperbole and conjecture, because most tech articles online are based on dramatic declarations rather than facts. However, your comment is also a bit hyperbolic.

    Think about business here. The iPhone wasn't the sole reason but it helped a lot. In terms of subscribers and money, the carriers right now are 1) Verizon, 2) AT&T, 3) Sprint 4) T-Mobile. Verizon has differentiated itself by running on it's reputation of reliability. AT&T differentiated itself by getting the iPhone first. It remains to be seen if AT&T can remain #2 but it has done a good job of locking some people into their service by getting a boost from the iPhone. Sprint and T-Mobile are a distant 3 and 4, because they aren't differentiating themselves well, and because AT&T was stealing their high end subscribers while local smaller outfits like MetroPCS, Cricket, Boost, Amped and others were stealing their low end subscribers. So what you end up with is a smaller T-Mobile and a larger AT&T with lots of cash to start making business deals.

    Now ultimately the reason why T-Mobile is being sold is because AT&T bought them. The article makes it seem like AT&T handed T-Mobile a crushing defeat and Deutch Telekom whimpered for mercey and sold their meager T-Mobile branch. Far from the truth. Deutch Telekom saw a money making opportunity, better than what they were making now. There are probably lots of business reasons surrounding it, and DT saw they were getting their asses kicked since 2007. They could continue to operate and try to come up with something new, but quite simply they cashed out when someone made them an attractive offer. DT saw they weren't as competitive as they wanted to be, so they took their money and went home. They might be able to make more money by investing that $39 in their European wireless market... or just invest it in oil futures or something.

    As for the G1... seriously? Don't make me laugh. T-Mobiles subscriber base has shrunk since 2007. Period, regardless of what technology AT&T and T-Mobile are offering. You can hardly say T-Mobile gained as many customers from the G1 as AT&T did from the iPhone.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  30. T-Mobile customers don't care about the iPhone by John+Jamieson · · Score: 2

    "ironically, AT&T's acquisition won't help T-Mobile customers get access to the iPhone anytime soon"

    Anyone who really cared about the IPhone, has long ago defected. Those smartphone users who stayed likely have other priorities (like having an antenna that works?).

    1. Re:T-Mobile customers don't care about the iPhone by guspasho · · Score: 1

      "Those smartphone users who stayed likely have other priorities (like having an antenna that works?)."

      It was so very hard to make the decision to switch in 2009 knowing that in 2010 Apple would release a phone with a bad antenna.

    2. Re:T-Mobile customers don't care about the iPhone by John+Jamieson · · Score: 1

      I didn't know that users were forced to decide to switch (or not) in 2009, I thought they could do it in other years as well and for a variety of reasons.

      The real point remains, if they wanted the iPhone they are already long gone. T-mobile not having the IPhone for another year is not going to cause the remaining customers grief, especially since i-os is no longer the dominant smartphone platform in the US (or anywhere)

    3. Re:T-Mobile customers don't care about the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is ridiculous. You obviously are not a T-Mobile customer. The people with T-Mobile are people that care about their budget (Dave Ramsey!), expect a lot for what they do spend (great customer service and great value - minutes and texts and data), and lastly, for me, can unlock and jailbreak their phone. The smart choice for value is T-Mobile. Period. I get 1000 minutes per month, 400 texts per month, 2 lines and a third home (VOIP) phone for 80 bucks a month. That includes (E) edge data plan which is fast enough for me. This just makes sense. I don't extra money. The old tag line was right one. "Get More."

      Boo-yah!

  31. Re:fake weather, induced seismicity, unkindest cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think it's skynet trying to achieve sentiance, little bit to go yet thankfully.

  32. Re:The G1? Really? by Desler · · Score: 1

    You can hardly say T-Mobile gained as many customers from the G1 as AT&T did from the iPhone.

    Well of course he can and he got modded insightful to boot! The Android faithful (I do own a Galaxy S myself but I'm not some Android/Google worshipper like many on Slashdot) eat up such unevidenced claims like it's candy when it bashes Apple and the iPhone.

  33. Re:The G1? Really? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

    It hardly is attributed to the iphone for that matter, either. What I was trying to point out was, if tmobile is shrinking, there is more to that picture than the iphone, especially considering that android has more marketshare than iphone now anyway.

  34. Re:The G1? Really? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

    Nobody can say whether Tmobile gained as many from android as it lost from iphone because nobody has any fucking clue. Only this moron who you replied to believes in the fud.

  35. Another One-Sided Article by organgtool · · Score: 1

    This article makes it seem as if T-Mobile needs to be bought out more than AT&T needs a 4G network. Sprint has had a 4G network for almost a year, Verizon is currently rolling out a great 4G network, and T-Mobile has deployed a great 4G network of their own. Meanwhile, AT&T is caught with their dicks in their hands. Not only have they not rolled out their own 4G network to compete with the current offerings, but they don't appear to have any plans of rolling one out anytime soon. It would probably take a year for them to evaluate the different technology available to them and then another year to roll out that technology.

    How did it get this way? Well, with the success of the iPhone, AT&T didn't feel the need to worry about a 4G infrastructure. Hell, they just got their 3G network to work at acceptable levels for the increased demand placed on their network by smartphones. However, since the iPhone is no longer exclusively theirs and Android has been outpacing the iPhone anyway, they are in a pretty big bind. They need T-Mobile's 4G network a LOT more than T-Mobile needs to be bought out. As a matter of fact, T-Mobile was in a prime position to steal many of AT&T's customers since they have competitive prices, great customer service, and most importantly, a much faster network.

    It would really be something if the Department of Justice blocked this sale. AT&T would gradually lose more and more customers as their network aged and they failed to roll out their own next-gen network. And I, for one, wouldn't feel the least bit of sympathy for AT&T - that's what they get for resting on their laurels. Of course, the DoJ won't block the acquisition, but one could hope.

  36. iPhone on T-Mobile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny, my iPhone has been using T-Mobile for the last couple of years.

  37. I know why AT&T bought them by slapout · · Score: 2

    I think AT&T was just tired of those commercials pointing out how bad AT&T is. Luke Wilson probably wasn't available to run counter ads, so it was just cheaper to buy them.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  38. The more things change... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    My first mobile phone was an OKI bag phone ( I was the second most active user in Maine for a while, thanks to the guys at Maine Wireless for all the free minutes), but some time in the 90s I got my first paid-for phone from AT&T WS. I lived through the change to Cingular, then when they went back I bailed to T-Mobile in 2006.

    So now I'm being driven back? Like I'm gonna hook up with VZW? And Sprint, the red-headed stepchild of the industry? No.

    I got nowhere else to go. 2012 will mark my teturn to the evil empire. Gahhh!

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  39. Re:Google dropped the ball, again. T-Mobile = Sun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They could just rebrand it as G-Mobile.

  40. I'm totally confused here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe I'm behind the times (live in South Africa) but what does a carrier have to do with the handset? You buy a phone, pop in the SIM card and off you go, right? We have at least 6 operators here (Virgin, Vodacom, MTN, RedBull, CellC and 8.ta) and I can buy any of their SIM cards without worrying about my phone (ok maybe if it's micro-SIM I have to get a new SIM card but they cost R1 ~ $0.14 USD).

    America, what the fuck is wrong with you? :)

    1. Re:I'm totally confused here by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      The handsets sold in the US that accept SIM cards (not all do, as CDMA technology (Verizon and pals) does not make use of them) typically are "Branded"-- EG, they have been sublicensed and resold under the carrier's name, and have advertisements branded on the phone itself. (EG, your apple Motorolla phone also has an ATT logo on it.) Part of that branding practice is to "Touch" the phone's firmware so that it will outright reject any SIM card not made by that carrier.

      This is why there is a big underground movement for unlocking (Carriers call it "Hacking", but that's not quite right either. You DO typically have to hack smart phones to unlock them though...) handsets, so that they can be used with the carrier of the user's choice.

      Most US consumers are blind, ignorant, and bleating masses who are only interested in eating at the shiniest, fullest trough though, and are perfectly happy to get sheared in return. Because of this, abusive practices like exclusivity deals, sim-locking, price fixing, and a whole host of other nasty bad things go totally unstopped, and unquestioned.

      I REALLY envy you, if you can buy any random handset, and use it with any random GSM service in south africa.

    2. Re:I'm totally confused here by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Damn typos. That should have been "Apple or motorola", not "Apple motorola". Gah.
      Carry on.

    3. Re:I'm totally confused here by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      In most countries in the developed world, the cellular networks, the towers and backhauls, are built by the government or a quasi-government monopoly and access is leased to retailers who then sell the SIM cards. As a condition of the lease the retailers agree to a regulatory regime that's much more stringent than in the US-- they can't bundle services, they must provide open access to the network, their ability to set prices and services are sometimes subject to legal restrictions, etc., and the system is very retail consumer friendly. In exchange for the regulation, these resellers can be very agile and operate very cheaply, because they don't have to pay any of the downside for running the antennas, which is a large fixed cost that has to be paid wether people use their minutes or not, and the government has the money resources necessary to make the network reach all kinds of out-of-the-way places that for a private company would be unprofitable, and to run the network on a non-profit basis, or worse.

      In the US the network was built by private companies, the large fixed costs of the infrastructure are borne by the providers, and the government gives the providers a much freer hand to extract the costs for running their network in whatever way they see fit.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:I'm totally confused here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP here,

      What you have described is truly bizarre. I can't imagine paying for my phone and having it being tainted by the operator (WTF?). I plan on buying an iPhone 5 on contract via Vodacom when it comes out. Basically the contract they give it to you on sucks. I suppose they sell it cheap and intend on making money off the plan the provide you through the crappy call rates, etc. But there is absolutely no reason I have to use that plan (well, by "plan" I mean the SIM card it will come with which has a number), so I'll just throw that away and buy another "plan" from an operator I prefer better (best data rate, don't give a shit about voice). We also have what is called number-portability where I can keep whatever my existing number is and the operator I choose to use must, BY LAW, port that number over on to their network.

      I think this is a good incentive to for carriers to either provide good customer service, or follow the evolutionary path and go extinct, since consumers can hop around to different as they please. Obviously if you buy a phone over 24 months and you decide to switch carriers, you will have to pay in whatever is still outstanding on your phone. But last time I did this there were no extra fees (Virgin Mobile) and the great thing is it's interest free over those 24 months.

      What happened to the "Land of the free"?

    5. Re:I'm totally confused here by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      In the USA, most companies have a $200 or $250 contract termination fee on subsidized smartphones purchased as part of a 24 month service contract, and the service might be around $80/month for up to 2 or 5 gigs of data, unlimited texts, and a lot or unlimited minutes. You probably also paid $150-200 as a "downpayment" on the phone. If you don't complete your contract, the full amount of the termination fee is due immediately. So buying a phone and breaking your contract right away costs $350 minimum, or generally about the same as that phone unlocked from an independent dealer. So there is really no advantage to buying a contract phone, breaking the contract, and getting another SIM card. In fact you could only switch between AT&T and T-Mobile. After this sale goes through, there'll be no other national cell company in the USA using SIM cards besides AT&T.

  41. T-Mobile had the Iphone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    T-Mobile a German Telecom owned company had the exclusive rights for selling Iphones in Germany, why they didn't do a package deal for both markets (US and Germany) is beyond me.

    1. Re:T-Mobile had the Iphone by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      I still haven't seen any evidence that Steve Jobs offered it to T-Mobile USA or anyone else besides AT&T and Verizon. I imagine if T-Mobile had a chance to secure it for both countries, they would have seriously pursued it and it would have been popular leaked knowledge.

  42. This is why handset exclusivity is bad by wierd_w · · Score: 1

    Exclusive partnerships, by their very nature, lock out competition and as such are innately anti-competitive.

    Rather than seeing AT&T buy up besieged T-Mo (I use a T-mo prepaid sim in my smart phone, btw. No data plan, I use wifi hotspots for data.) I would rather see handset makers barred from signing exclusive backroom deals-- the whole "Give us $$$, and we'll partner exclusively!" shit has to end.

    If the iPhone had been readily available on multiple carriers from the go, then at least two things would have been avoided. Namely, AT&T's network wouldnt have crashed into the floor from data service use, Verizon would have picked up a fair chunk of the iPhone userbase (Even if CDMA is inferior to GSM in this regard, being unable to use data while talking-- end users would not know that, nor notice, most likely), and T-Mobile would have been directly competitive with AT&T's offerings.

    Instead you had a very sweet price inflation due to regulated supply coupled with excessive demand, which worked VERY nicely for Apple and AT&T, at the expense of the rest of the already under-competitive cellular market. It practically stinks of racketeering. (Yes, I know this threat is passed now, with the new exception in the DMCA for it, yet in the historical period I am railing against Apple+ATT really did play the That's a nice iPhone you have there, shame if something were to happen to it. card to keep iphone users from letting the air out of their price inflation scheme.)

    The REAL solution is to ban these kinds of backroom deals, and enforce against them. (Sadly, no money-minded politician will campaign for, or enact such a provision, because killing backroom deals would kill a good portion of their "Campaign Funding")

    I fucking HATE apple right now.

    1. Re:This is why handset exclusivity is bad by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      Hindsight is 20/20.

      Remember that it was Cingular that originally had the exclusive iPhone deal, and AT&T bought them out right before the original launch.

      No one else *wanted* to carry the iPhone, least of all Verizon, it took too much control away from the carriers, who were used to nickel and diming for every single handset feature like Bluetooth and custom ringtones. Though restrictive in other ways, the iPhone was instrumental in breaking the carrier's grip on power in the US and paving the way for Android.

    2. Re:This is why handset exclusivity is bad by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      No, Cingular bought AT&T, implemented all of the bad Cingular support and business rules then changed their name to AT&T. Actually AT&T wireless was a pretty good company to deal with if you had a business plan with them. I could get an replacement refurbished phone from them for about $30 bucks and no contract pretty much anytime I wanted. The refurbished phone was usually one that someone had returned before the 30 days trial period expired.

      Cingular sucks! AT&T Wireless wasn't bad.

    3. Re:This is why handset exclusivity is bad by colinnwn · · Score: 1

      AT&T Wireless was pretty good. Cingular ran me off after they integrated Houston Cellular under their umbrella. Then Cingular bought AT&T Wireless and ran me off again. And now they'll most likely run me off from T-Mobile once they assuredly mess with my non-contract plan.

  43. How can this happen? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

    Is there no anti-trust regulation left remaining in the the U.S.? Did they throw 'em all out in the trash bin while no one was looking? I am genuinely puzzled.

    1. Re:How can this happen? by GFLPraxis · · Score: 1

      Oh, those guys? AT&T bought them too.

    2. Re:How can this happen? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Is there no anti-trust regulation left remaining in the the U.S.? Did they throw 'em all out in the trash bin while no one was looking? I am genuinely puzzled.

      Nothing. Antitrust does not imply there must be a specific number of competitors in a market; rather it looks at market power and how company(s) exercise it. At any rate, there is more to he US cellular market than ATT/VZW/SPRINT/TM - with various prepaid and other competitors (MetroPCS for example) that give people a choice. You want unlimited calls/text/web for cheap with no contract - it's available just most people don't consider anyone but the big 4.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  44. I was one of them :( by GFLPraxis · · Score: 1

    T-Mobile customer who switched to AT&T when I got my iPhone 4 here...I used the original EDGE iPhone for three years on T-Mobile, never had a dropped call. T-Mobile had much, much better pricing and very good support. This makes me sad. :(

  45. Re:The G1? Really? by NuShrike · · Score: 1

    Where do you think the 39 billion came from? Trees? iPhone tree people then!

    AT&T definitely wouldn't be so arrogantly entrenched and flushed with money unspent on coverage/towers without the iProducts sheeple/monkeys.

  46. T-Mobile where? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    I had considered going with T-Mobile. They had plans that I was interested in. But then I did a search using their site for retail locations and found they had no stores in my state, only payment drop boxes. Apparently they only wanted my business if I wasn't from here originally.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    1. Re:T-Mobile where? by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      I had considered going with T-Mobile. They had plans that I was interested in. But then I did a search using their site for retail locations and found they had no stores in my state, only payment drop boxes. Apparently they only wanted my business if I wasn't from here originally.

      I've been a T-Mobile customer for 3-4 years now, and have never been in one of their stores.

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
    2. Re:T-Mobile where? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in New Jersey and they have official stores and a bunch of authorized resellers all over the place. 2 Just in the mall around here.

  47. Mabye not by ichthus · · Score: 1

    Maybe it was, specifically, the iPhone, but maybe not. As a long-time T-Mobile customer, my main complaint has always been Tmo's available selection of phones. If I wanted a good phone, I had to buy an unlocked GSM model from outside their usual offering. So, I'm sure the iPhone influenced the situation, but it may have been less the fact that the iPhone was only available on AT&T, and more the fact that it added more contrast between other carriers' good phones and Tmo's selection of crap.

    The Nexus 1 could have been T-Mobile's iPhone counterpart, had it not been for Google's retarded marketing model.

    --
    sig: sauer
  48. Re:The G1? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tmobile knows and they are going out of business now. So what do you think we can infer from that?

  49. Will Miss you Tmobile.. by Lightjumper · · Score: 1

    I am going on 9 years now as a T-Mobile customer. In the last 9 years, I've never had a call drop other than from my service being a little weak in my basement. My bill is about $60 ($39 was my original bill, plus$10 for phone and text add-on plan plus internet access and taxes, etc brings it to about $60) a month for unlimited calling and text plus (T-Mobile - T-Mobile) unlimited g2 internet access. I have not had a contract in years also and they never push for me to get one. Over the last 9years, I've only called customer service twice, once was because I wanted to add an international plan and another was to find out how to remove one of my phones from another plan and add 2 more new a new plan. Over the last 9 years I've never paid my bill on time and never seen a nasty email, letter or late fee, They actually added on 200mins to my plan for being a loyal customer. I only bought 2 cell phones from them over the years, One was the original Nokia they gave to me when I first got my phone and the other was a Samsung that I paid too much for, I still have both phones, but don't use them anymore. I bought 2 unlocked Palm 680's over the years (One I dropped in the pool and it still worked (still works now) and the other is used as my GPS unit now with a tomtom memory card) and used them on their network with no issues, data plan worked with them, was able to text, sms, IM and send pictures, there website always said I had an unsupported phone, but big deal. I then bought a palm Centro last year and didn't like it as much so bought a used unlocked G1 and give my girlfriend (a big mac fan) the Centro as she loved the phones more then the Iphone. A friend of mine bought a Iphone g3 and has been not happy with it at all. He told me after each software upgrade is has become less stable and slow. I hope the sale does not happy, Lots of my friends also have there fingers crossed that it does not.

  50. Re:The G1? Really? by hellfire · · Score: 1

    Actually you can easily get a clue on this. Just Google it. You'll see that the 1.5 million figures first estimated were not corroborated and people think that's the FUD. Also, there are articles about how in 2008 the G1 was the 5th most popular phone, behind the iPhone 3G and 3 blackberry models.

    And yet I'm not really trying to prove the iPhone outsold the G1. If you follow my statement, I said it was a fact that the T-mobile subscriber base has shrunk since 2007 overall. The original poster's position that the G1 increased T-Mobiles subscriber base, and I'm trying to say that's false from the other evidence provided. I'm not saying "iPhone ownz j00r f33bl3 G1". Not at all.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  51. Re:The G1? Really? by hellfire · · Score: 1

    Actually you originally said: "the iphone has zero to do with tmobile being sold". Now you are saying: "there is more to that picture than the iPhone." which is it? In fact the latter is my point, not your point.

    And to address your statement: "It hardly is attributed to the iphone for that matter". Actually as I stated it is a large point. The iPhone gave AT&T a large infusion of cash and took away subscribers from T-Mobile, helping to shrinking the T-Mobile user base. One company got bigger, another got smaller, and then that smaller company is getting eaten by the larger one. Typical American Capitalism (I make no judgement as to this being a good or bad thing).

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  52. I was with T-Mobile and switched to ATT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wanted a 3G phone and waited for an arm and a leg for T-Mobile to get it. For 3 years, I kept asking and they kept telling me it will just be next year. After I switched, they still didn't have 3G for 2 more years. If they really want to know why they lost customers, i think its their late entry into 3G which really did it for them.

  53. What's in it for the customer? by Cigarra · · Score: 1

    Could anyone please remind me what benefits for the users are there in the merge/buyout, exactly?

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    I don't have a sig.
  54. This deal is fairly simple by rabtech · · Score: 1

    This deal is really simple. T-Mobile needed to spend a lot of money upgrading their network to stay in business. ATT needs new spectrum... their biggest problems are lack of spectrum and lack of backhaul in areas where they aren't an ILEC.

    This deal gives DT a way to exit cleanly without having to "double-down" on T-Mobile and it gives ATT a big chunk of spectrum.

    It really is that simple.

    --
    Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
  55. Re:The G1? Really? by Desler · · Score: 1

    Nobody can say whether Tmobile gained as many from android as it lost from iphone because nobody has any fucking clue.

    Now you're trying to change your claim. Your claim was that the G1 was some great attractor of new customers, yet it's highly anemic sales would beg to differ. Now you're trying to expand it to Android in general. Make up your mind on what you are trying to argue.

  56. Wrong! by macraig · · Score: 1

    What really sank T-Mobile was the willingness of self-centered consumers to buy devices KNOWING that they were locked into a single subscriber service with it. Had consumers been more egalitarian and simply said "fuck that", Apple would have been effectively forced to abandon the lock-in and make it available for all services.

    You might also say that Apple was ultimately to blame, since they manufactured the locked-in phones... and very eagerly did so.

  57. Spoken like a non-trader by unassimilatible · · Score: 1

    "Take that $1000 a year and put it into an IRA. You will get more from that than your cell phone could ever return"

    I trade stocks, options, ETFs. etc scores of times a year. Not exactly a day trader, but close. I bought my iPhone largely so I could do trades on the road and wouldn't be tethered to my computers at home during market hours. I've already done several trades on my iPhone, and a HELLUVA lot more money was involved than a measly $1K. The iPhone has been a godsend in terms of liberating me from home from 6:30AM-1:30PM PST.

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    Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
  58. Re:The G1? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You realize Boost is owned by Sprint, right (it's now a combination of the Nextel iDen network and Sprint's PCS network)? The same goes for all the other pre-paid phone services. There's a different 800 number, and the operators may not even know that their paycheck is signed by a big mobile company, but all the small ones are owned by the big guys now.

  59. Used to Be.. by sycodon · · Score: 1

    ...that you had to lease a hand set from Ma Bell. No independent sets allowed. When that was outlawed, the handset market exploded with all kinds of options and features.

    The FCC should prohibit phones from being tied to carriers. Pick your phone, pick your carrier. Keep your number if you switch. They also need to outlaw the requirement of data plans. No plan, no data...that simple. I can get by on wifi.

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    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Used to Be.. by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Better idea - no discrimination between phone models and makes, full stop. What is required for one phone on the network, goes with the others. I'd like to see them try to charge for a dataplan for a feature phone. They will, and will fail, badly. And will get rid of the stupid requirement. Best case - free data for all!

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      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  60. T-Mobile should have given at least another year by feddas · · Score: 1

    If the iPhone is the reason, it doesn't make any sense T-Mobile would want to merge with AT&T. Now that the AT&T exclusive to iPhone is over, now is when iPhone-iacs will be moving away from AT&T. Why would T-Mobile eliminate themselves as an option for the hordes looking to get away from AT&T?

  61. So we can conclude... by Fuzzums · · Score: 1

    that Apple fucked up a healthy company.

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    Privacy is terrorism.
  62. Re:The G1? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you have numbers to back that up. I don't know many with iPhones. I think maybe one person. I can name a dozen with Android phones. Now I know some got them later and are on the Verizon or Sprint network. However I am on t-mobiles network and I know one other person is too. Another person is on the AT&T network and finally another one is on Verizon I believe. There is one person on AT&T with an iPhone that I know. About half are techys and the other half aren't.

  63. T-Mobile Cheapest 3G now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a T-Mobile user with a Nexus One. My plan is $55/mo 440 voice, unlimited data, no contract. Nobody can beat that. Sadly this will likely go away. I have used all the carriers. T-Mobile is the only one with viable customer service. Other carriers have made me consider entering the witness protection program their customer service was so bad (especially when you want to SHUT OFF your service)

  64. Re:The G1? Really? by colinnwn · · Score: 1

    They may have a guesstimate based on informal replies to questions in their customer retention department, but they can't know. No one can know because T-Mobile never got or never availed themselves the opportunity of carrying the iPhone. They may have only lost a few ten thousands of subscribers to AT&T due to the iPhone, and the rest left for other reasons such as the smaller network in some areas of the country or cheaper plans like Metro/Virgin/Boost.

    Personally T-Mobile was my sweet spot of decent national coverage, great local coverage, good prices, and great customer service. They'll be sorely missed.

  65. Re:Also @Home by colinnwn · · Score: 1

    You are so right in how they could have competed better. I've suggested several of those items on their company forum. You had a few great ones that I hadn't thought of.

    Another you didn't mention is their @Home service, which is basically a VoIP adapter for your standard home phone run on GSM over IP like WiFi calling. The public hardly heard about it, the ones that did got confused (along with their sales people) between it and WiFi calling, which was introduced with a small ad campaign, with a similar name, and same price, at about the same time. I think WiFi calling was originally called unlimited WiFi@Home. @Home suffered from technical problems due to buggy Linksys/Cisco firmware in their router/adapter, was offered only to postpaid cellular customers, but only if your family plan had 4 lines or less.

    It was much less than other options like Vonage and Time Warner phone service. But they tried to make it a perk for a limited subset of their customers, rather than a way to capture and retain customers. And they never invested in upgrades to the service beyond voicemail like other VOiP options had, even if it would have required some modest price increases.

    I think if they had introduced it at a different time and price than WiFi calling, with a very different name and substantial ad campaign, allowed affluent techno savvy customers that had 5 cell lines of service to add one or more @home lines to their plan, charged say $19 for non cellular and prepaid customers, $9 for postpaid customers, and added features over time or in partnership with Google Voice like internet voicemail with customizable forwarding, messaging, logging, and recording options from an easy to use website, that it would have been very successful and increased the stickiness of their customers.

    By far the biggest reason I haven't switched from T-Mobile to Sprint after the AT&T sales announcement was that I have @Home and don't want to lose it.

  66. Re:Also @Home by colinnwn · · Score: 1

    Sorry, it wasn't WiFi@Home, it was Hotspot@Home. That's still not to be confused with plain old T-Mobile@Home home phone service.

  67. Re:Apple IIGSes? by colinnwn · · Score: 1

    I read that as Apple IIGSes and thought, what is he doing replacing a cellphone with a 25 year old computer.