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Mac Users More Liberal Than Windows Users
adeelarshad82 writes "A recent survey conducted on 400,000 people — in which 52% of respondents were self-described PC (Windows) people, 25% were Mac users and 23% were neither — showed that Mac users are more politically liberal than their PC-using counterparts. 58% of Mac users were 'liberal,' as compared to 38% of PC users. Amongst other things, the survey also indicated that Mac users were, on average, more urban, younger and more educated than PC users, which could potentially be a contributing factor toward being more liberal."
Oh god, conservative vs. liberal with ((mac vs pc) vs linux) on an Easter Sunday.......I'm gonna go steal eggs from kids or something.
Seriously, who the fuck cares?
being liberal is a good thing?
That's odd because Apple corporation isn't very liberal compared to it's PC counterparts. Of course they are all responsible for terrible manufacturing practices in China and all around the world.
There is at least one notorious outlier.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Shouldn't you survey an equal number of Pc and Mac users, not 208k PC and 100k Mac users?
Also, is 100k Americans a decent enough sample size?
And why is TFA an infographic on a blog?
Mac User
Older
More conservative than anything you've ever heard on radio or seen elected to office anywhere
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I would expect higher incidence of homosexuality among mac users to contribute to this? Possibly in a statistically significant numbers?
Link to CNN story:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/04/22/mac.pc.users/index.html?hpt=Sbin
Unfortunately, pointing out that Mac users are more educated than PC users, while true, seems like flamebait to many. People don't generally want to know what is reality - they want data that confirms what they *want* to think. This is a perfect example of many people rejecting data that doesn't fit their biases.
Of course Mac users are more liberal (or rather tend to have more liberal traits), it's a younger, "hipper" crowd for the most part, doing more "liberal-arts" type work with them as well, graphic design and all.
What does it matter? Not at all. Hell, Rush Dopefiend Limbaugh uses Mac Pros and loves them to the point of blogging about it.
I find these kinds of comparisons between "liberals" and "conservatives" distasteful. For me, what my political leanings might be are about making the world better in the little way that I can as a person who can vote. They're not about sitting around and deciding I am "an X" and comparing my lifestyle etc to "the Ys" in order to find differences, feel that I'm superior, blah blah blah. Would it be too much to ask for "liberals" and "conservatives" to try to focus on finding things had in common and little less trying to find things that different from one another?
What's next, Fox News viewers are more conservative than PBS viewers?
Christ. What a waste of time. A self selecting young, predominantly urban, affluent, middle class, college educated demographic is generally more liberal than the rest of the population? Well, I for one, am shocked.
No, not really. What would be more interesting is in looking at what the distribution for those attitudes looks like. I'd guess Mac users would represent a classic bell curve while PC users would have a much less predictable pattern. But then I wouldn't expect the people who do this kind of "research" have any interest beyond trolling in the first place. No questions about conformity or deference to authority either. That'd be an interesting outcome...
I had a dream, bright and carefree, but now there's doubt and gravity
Conservative (not to be confused with republicans, religious folk, or the other things that they statically are) are people who prefer that status quo. PC are the status quo for a computer purchase. If you are going to switch to a Mac, then you realize that you want to change.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
That's not surprising at all. Here, am I talking politics or electronics?
"Just spend enough to make it work. What's the most common solution? Let's do that."
"I want to spend as much money as necessary to get what I'm told is the best and shiniest system possible."
Then there are the Linux libertarians: disgusted by the major parties, trying hard (sometimes too hard) not to become cynical about their tiny minority. "Of course it's a viable solution! People will get it someday..."
a lot of times, saying your 'liberal' is for show too.. if you were to honestly take stock of your ideologies, you might find you are not 'liberal' on every issue, but america has a black/white fear based political system, so whatever..
point is, anyone trying to look young and hip is going to identify themselves as liberal, the same folk who would pay 2000 for a computer with software on it thats a decade behind the times..
even linux is offering a better UX than osx these days, its a joke, obj-c is a turd, and the developer center is a laugh..
I had suspected for a long time that Windows PC's were easier to use than Macs - now we find out you actually even need a college education and a higher IQ to use one....
lol......
52% Windows users * 38% liberal among PC users=19.76% of sample population are liberal PC users. 25% OSX users * 25% liberal among OSX users=14.5% of sample population are liberal OSX users.
it takes a liberal president to put the usa in more wars at the same time then a republican president like bush. i will vote liberal next time for sure
They omitted the Mac Liberals also leaned towards Nazism.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
No. Just no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban
Correlation is not causation. When A and B correlate, there is no guarantee that A or B might cause the other. It might be a coincidence or historical accident of sorts, or there might be other variables in play. And I think your proposition might just be the C we are looking for.
Young hip trendy people more likely to own macs. Young hip trendy people more likely to be liberal.
A common cause is pretty obvious here.
those who agree w/me
Hitler
those who are worse than Hitler!
actually, I can't take credit for that - some guy posted it on the Dilbert blog a couple wks ago...
also, FWIW I'm a 41 yr old moderate (probably slightly liberal at this point) on a 13" Air w/4GB & 2.1 procs (I have the disposable income stewbacca mentioned above :D) - coolest laptop EVER!!!
Aww, how adorable "more educated than PC users". Maybe that's because Windows owns the vast majority of the OS market?
Shock horror. What a waste of time.
Educated = more money and probably more liberal. Young = more susceptible to fads. and.. they bought a Mac. What a surprise.
Like Rush Limbaugh
Can't believe the correlation/causation thing needs to be rolled out again. If what this study really shows is that people who use more expensive computers tend to be richer and younger than average - it should be flushed down the toilet.
No. You made that up. It's not in the article. It's your perception.
LINUX users are Communists so THERE! Fuck liberals those bourgeois wankers.
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What is this, the Fox News forums?
Sent from my CR-48
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Except "urban" doesn't mean "black," unless you're trying to get away with saying "black people" in a context where you know it's wrong and unacceptable. Like if you were trying to get away with saying "black people commit more crimes," you might say "urban populations commit more crime." Urban means "lives in the city."
The survey revealed that out of the 208,000 PC users 79,040 users were liberal as compared to only 58,000 liberal mac users. In other words PC users are 36.3% more liberal.
urban as in being a city dweller and not a ghetto dweller.
You can have my PC when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
I wonder what percentage of mac users pay for their own machines. Almost everyone I've ever known with a Mac got it from their parents.Once they have a job and their own money the problem of spending $500 or $1500 on a core i5 laptop comes to light.
"Hunch was started by clever folks"
"Hunch is building the 'taste graph' for the internet"
"a survey of 388,315 Hunch users"
Hunch.com is a shopping newsgroup for trend followers who say "cool" and "hip" with no sense of irony. It's aimed at the Mac crowd, typified by the Pacific Northwest, understated dandy, whose carefully trimmed 5 o'clock shadow, "windblown" perm, and overpriced, fake-worn designer jeans say, "I like white water rafting and a good latte." What better marketing ploy than for a fluff website targetting Mac customers to create such a fluff survey?
That particular point seems to have been missed in the survey: It would be difficult to overestimate how many people buy iPhones and Macs because they want to look "hip" while they do their homework in Starbucks. Apple is the BMW of unnecessary electronic gadgets. It's that most desirable of objects: an unambiguous winner in the world of consumer semiotics.
Steve Jobs has certainly accomplished a notable feat. He's created a giant customer base of people who will do whatever he tells them to. And he did it by reassuring those people that they're brilliant non-conformists who think for themselves -- the true intelligentsia of modern [consumer] society. And now that iPhone Apps have proved that Mac people will pay for *anything*, what sense is there in marketing to PC users?
I would imagine Mac users are also...
More likely to be stoned on Medical Marijuana because it helps their "Headaches"
More likely to collect welfare and have more babies just to collect more
More likely to ignore debt and keep spending more.
See I can swap it around on you. (I tried to leave out being Gay just because the Mac already has that reputation, and homosexuality really isn't an aspect to liberalism, nor should it be perceived as a negative trait.)
Any Extreme Side can be just as stupid, greedy, lazy and misinformed as the other.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Otherwise Western Europe would have more Mac users on average than the U.S...
52% of respondents were self-described PC (Windows) people, 25% were Mac users and 23% were neither
So Linux has a 23% marker share? Is it that year already?
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
"If you're in your 20's and you're not a Democrat, you don't have a heart - if you're in your 40's and aren't a Republican you don't have a brain."
I fond the 23% that don't self-identify as either Mac or PC people very telling - Linux has a 1% market share, yet it (apparently) shows up as almost one forth of survey respondents. Despite the 400K responses, it looks like s skewed sample, representative of a certain group of social media users...
Education is a factor to being liberal? That's pretty offensive. My wife has a Master's degree whereas I am a teacher with the equivalent of a Master's and we're both quite conservative. Being willing to give money to people who don't deserve it and being tolerant of all of the things that will destroy the foundation of our society doesn't require an education, it requires arrogance.
"politically liberal" means what?
Stereotyping is so awesome; especially with some statistics to support the argument.
I love the term "more educated". Without strict definition, it is completely useless. How is it measured?
I have several dozen friends and associates who only have a high-school diploma, but are far "more educated" than many (most) who have masters degrees. They are self-educated, but still have a far larger body of knowledge, and integration of that knowledge.
"more educated", as popularly used, has -zero- to do with intelligence. It has everything to do with opportunity, privilege, and money. Congratulations, wealthy folk are more likely to own Macs. They are also more likely to own a Rolex or drive an over-priced car. Sometimes the things they purchase truly are of higher quality or are inherently better. Sometimes the pricing is solely based on exclusivity and perceived status, and the product is inferior.
BTW, I have a master's degree. I spent 10 years working full-time and self-educating, but needed to "check the box" for employment opportunities later in life. A complete waste of time and money, other than it opened some employment doors.
When Apple computer will have an option for a built-in ashtray?
Anyone who worries about what OS a bunch of random strangers are using needs a new hobby.
Therefore all terrorists use Macs.
Therfore all liberals are terrorists.
Q.E.D.
Liberals love pretentious things. It's because they believe they're better than you, and know better than you. :-P
*flaming mackeral* on my trolling line.
You know, you can craft these surveys to "prove" anything you want regardless of the respondents' answers. Stop passing this shit off as Science. It make you look like a bunch of economists.
The differences in intelligence to be intrinsically self regulating. The IQ points failed to explain the stupidity related to purchasing a machine half as powerful as its PC counterpart, but still twice as expensive. Furthermore, the test failed to address the 'NiX' users. Simply because their profit modeled test didn't have an IQ test that could encompass the likes of users interested in more than taking pictures of their penises and listening to country music collections. Happy Easter!
Firstly, the sample refers to Hunch users only. This is not a general population sample and should not be applied to the general population. While they failed to spell out the implications of this important bit of context, Hunch did at least disclose prominently that the survey was of Hunch users, unlike PC Mag which seemed to reluctantly mention it once. The Slashdot summary however ignores it completely and thus implies reference to the general population.
Almost a quarter of those who actually responded described themselves as neither PC or Mac. The sample is stratified and the terms "PC user" and "Mac user" no longer exist, you only have the (markedly different) categories of "self-described PC people", "self-described Mac people" and "neither". To their credit TFA not only discloses this, in the header no less, but makes it a theme of the infographic. PC Mag seems to mention it once then forget. The Slashdot summary, however, appears not to have even noticed that there is any distinction:
52% of respondents were self-described PC (Windows) people, 25% were Mac users and 23% were neither
These aren't relevant to each other, it's like a random collection of figures that add to 100% by coincidence. Or... Hmm. Subby appears to be promoting a Pro-Mac bias but perhaps this is really a subtle dig, intentionally implying the terms "Mac users" and "self-described Mac people" are one and the same? Have I had my own humour fail and underestimated the summary?
There's some rather odd statistical presentation. For example "PC people are 33% more likely than Mac people to say that two random people are more different than alike". 33% looks like a big difference, but "more likely" is relative and says nothing about significance: the same figure is arrived at when 8 of the 202k PC people say that and only 3 of the 97k Mac people do (0.000040% is 33% more than 0.000026%). Why have they not simply said the full result, the almost ubiquitous way to present the result of a binary question? Any time you see statistics presented this way alarm bells should ring because it's a great way to grossly over-emphasise trivial things.
Noted that there is no control group, no attempt to compare survey results with statistics of the general population simply in order to gauge reliability. This is despite the generally accepted view that questionnaires are utter horse shit and anyway Hunch isn't exactly a reliable scientific source.
With the Hunch infographic, none of the above matters because the whole thing is presented as slightly tongue-in-cheek entertainment. Unlike PC Mag or the Slashdot summary which appears to take it quite seriously.
for the same user experience (applications) it means that mac users are stupid or exemplars of conspicous consumption.
Wintel may be sleazy corporate duopoly, where they do absolutely nothing unless they have to (if not for S Jobs, we'd be on DOS17 now) but only a moron pays extra for useless glitz
Have you ever walked by a Starbucks in town and seen people in the window seats with their HP or Lenovo laptop open?
Didn't think so. It has to have an Apple logo, to go with their Club Monaco clothes, and the Sumatran Double Espresso they're occasionally sipping.
Libertarian is a form of right wing extremism, Liberalism is middle-left.
Viewed from continental Europe, the US liberals look exactly like the standard right here. The US Republicans (without the Tea Party loonies) would be considered extreme right in Europe. Even though even the European extreme right takes universal health care for granted.
I'm not sure if there is any party in Europe defending the Libertarian ideology of destroying government (and let mega corporations rule over anything they aren't already).
The sky is blue and water is wet.
"Liberal"? You mean more promiscuous right? Have you ever noticed how many of those 'self shot' emo photos are done with an iphone.
Liberal by which definition? American or European? AFAIK liberal in USA means "socialist" while in the rest of the world liberal means someone who likes freedom.
Is this like:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/cbc-online-vote-compass-under-attack-perceived-liberal-20110330-083002-505.html
Viewing from a third world South American hell hole, universal health care is taken for granted as a constitutional right. Even if I pay a private plan to get better health care (it's a poor country, after all) I understand that paying my public health care taxes means the average population has access to health.
I can only think Americans are a little crazy. I completely fail to understand.
How can I expect to live well if my neighbors or other people around me doesn't have access to food, shelter and health? Like someone else said, I like my taxes with them I pay for civilization.
Loonies.
Once again researchers have a head up their ass by looking for correlations while ignoring causation, and then presenting the correlation in the wrong order. Don't they know that people never see the distinction and assume that the correlation translates to causation as presented? An OS is not going to influence your political views, but your political views may influence your choice of OS. If you are going to imply causation, may as well imply the right one.
It would have been more appropriate to state that of the 308000 people polled, 44% were liberal and 56% were conservative. Of the liberals, 58% used a PC, 42% used a Mac. Of the conservatives, 75% used a PC, 25% used a Mac. A much more informative correlation, don't you think?
Interesting coincidence. My company just fired a Machead graphic designer because of an attendance problem. The little Leninist wouldn't buy a car. He said he wouldn't be coerced into buying one. But then he complained about the price of a cab. Plonk.
an ill wind that blows no good
Governments are in bed with corporations already, you need to limit the power of government to make it not worthwhile to corrupt its members to do favors, otherwise corporations will always perceive that spending money on politicians has an extremely good ROI.
And yes, there are such parties in Europe. In Poland there are 2 with a total support of 1-2%.
These 2 parties are usually considered loonies because libertarianism offends average person's beliefs too much and they will never enter the parliament. They are marginalized/misrepresented in mainstream media and on top of that in elections there is a high pass filter in place (5% for parties, 7% for coalitions) supposedly to make parliament more stable. In reality this causes progressing americanization of politics where weaker parties are left out or even fold while few big ones rise to even greater prominence and new fresh people/ideas can't enter the parliament. Now we have 2 major parties (1 sorta spineless fake liberal with 40-50% support, 1 sorta xenophobic wacko religious socialist at about 20-30%) that play the game plus few smaller ones to act as a filler in coalitions (fork of the wacko one, postcomunists and countryside farmers).
Macs are French, or Italian.. all flighty and emotional bambi types..
PCs are British, or German.. staid and teutonic.. 'I shot bambi's mother'
Ya think? I'd say it pretty much invalidates any claim to a special relationship between affinity for Apple products and liberalism. If the rate of "Mac" responses were markedly higher among the group of "young, urban, highly-educated liberals" when compared to "young, urban, highly-educated conservatives" then there might be something to write about.
Surprising? No, we all know that fags love Macs.
If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
I'm with you. In the US removing government power is one of the few ways to remove corporate power. Corporations own the politicians and staff the agencies that regulate the corporations.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Rush Limbaugh is actually a conservative who stayed with Mac through the lean years (1990s). I know because I was forced to listen to him on a daily basis when I worked for one of his affiliates back then. *heh* :)
I'm none of those things. I'm over 40, conservative, and far from "urban". I had a IIc when I was in my teens, and a few years ago I switched to a Macbook Pro from Linux. Prior to that I was a big OS/2 guy. Been in IT for 17 years as well.
When MS/PC's went after the corporate world, Apple had little choice but go after the artist. Remember, the first product from Woz and Jobs was the Blue Box. Over the Apple Campus they flew the Jolly Roger. Apple was always the insurgent, MS represented the establishment. Apple upset the status quo, MS tried to preserve the status quo.
Steve wore turtlenecks and jeans, Bill wore a suit. Apple took drugs and danced on the beach. MS bought lawmakers and competitors.
The sun is hot, water is wet and you shouldn't run with knives...
on a Mac (that does 1/2 as much as a PC does!)
I write for a website which covers a lot of Apple news in its coverage, so I do see that leaning; by definition, if you're knowingly going against the mainstream by getting a Mac, you're probably willing to change the status quo elsewhere.
However, one day the site got this absolutely indignant feedback e-mail from a Mac user complaining about Apple. You see, Apple had the audacity to endorse a No vote on California's Prop 8. How dare this company support the freedom of sexual orientation and 'assault' family values! It was making this reader and his wife question their choice of platform.
Never mind that it's a San Francisco Bay area company. Whose logo was a rainbow-hued apple for half of its history. Whose slogan was "Think Different" for several years. It just goes to show that even conservatives will lean towards Apple... if just in spite of themselves.
Why is this on /.? I thought this was "News for Nerds," not "Flamebait for Nerds" or - as it overwhelmingly seems to be as of late - "Junk Marketing for Mac Fans".
This is just terrible, useless, mindless crap, and everyone involved in getting this to appear on the front page should be ashamed of themselves. I hear CNN and the Daily Mail have some openings.
Once again, I find a connection between my politics and my preferred desktop operating system: both are completely ignored in mainstream media and in most surveys.
That is so f**ing stupid.
If you weaken the (at least semi-democratically elected) govenrment, there's nothing left to exercise power
EXCEPT the corporate oligarchs.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Strangely, I've allways had the feeling that mac users were more liberal than windows users. I guess this study confirms it.
Several prominent conservative politicians are avid Mac users and have been for decades. That Apple targets the urban, college educated (and presumably less cash strapped or less debt conscious) consumer is not surprise. Since the original Macintosh, Apple has always been a niche computer maker. The iPod and the iPhone are the company's only successful forays into the common consumer market.
I say it all boils down to personal preferences and how much cash you're wiling to spend on the machine. The current versions of each OS have narrowed the interface differences quite a bit, although OS X has the advantage of consistency over decades where Windows has changed in meaningful (to the consumer) ways with every version.
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
Calling somebody that uses a Mac more educated is wrong.
Further details from the report (funded by Apple)
- Mac Users are better looking
- Mac Users are more attractive to whichever sex they prefer
- Mac Users live longer
- Mac Users are better humans
- Mac Users will rule
But what about terrorists?? Are they Mac or PC?
The sky is blue.
So what does that make me?
(probably anarchist since I think most politicians should be given long prison terms)
"Get away with"? Since when did simple facts become something one needs to "get away with"? Racism isn't stating facts, racism is attributing those facts to some genetic component instead of the actual causes like poverty and cultural/social issues.
Sadly, you're probably right. Everyone's so quick to jump up and down showing how non-racist they are they'll take any statement they can as racist because, by extension, pointing out how horribly racist everyone else is shows how non-racist you are these days.
Im younger, im university educated, Im also a mac user, as well as linux, and defn not windows.
But Im conservative all the way, I actually just voted on the 20th.
These kind of surveys are useless.
Oddly, even the poorest US citizen has access to food, shelter, and far better health care than you do. So really your little diatribe falls a little flat.
> Like if you were trying to get away with saying "black people commit more crimes," you might say "urban populations commit more crime." Urban means "lives in the city."
Urban doesn't mean black even then, unless someone doesn't speak English. The formal definition applies.
Urban people commit more crime because of simple math. More people closer together means more opportunities for crime, and a city means more laws.
I agree the statement "black people commit more crimes" is unacceptable, almost as a rule, due to the ambiguity inherent in the sentence. In addition, there is a perceived racism in the statement "black people commit more crimes," bolstered in legitimacy by a combination of factors: (1) black people are arrested disproportionately. For example, NYC spends ~$100M on arrests, largely of young black men, of people with small quantities of pot. However, studies show that white people use pot much more than black people do. (2) People of lower socioeconomic status commit more visible crimes, and they are disproportionately black, so saying black people implicitly creates a tenuous causal connection between "black people" and "crimes" in your statement. (3) On a related vein, "black people commit more crimes" is ambiguous. It could be either an empirical statement about the current state of affairs, or a truism. If the latter, it would be highly problematic for our entire notion of egalitarianism, and would be racist (even if racist with an empirical basis). (4) Even if true as a statement of the past, the statement would still be problematic because people will look to it as justification for racism--when we generalize, we give ammunition to people who hate others based on their affiliation or skin color or religion or political party. (Okay, the latter might be okay if it's the Nazis.)
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
call your office.
Mac users spend 50% more for the same hardware... "But it just works" -Hipster McGee
So, more of them sat in classes under the influence of liberal socialist college professors having hogwash poured into their brains. No wonder they are more "brainwashed" than the "non-educated". :)
Oddly, even the poorest US citizen has access to food, shelter, and far better health care than you do. So really your little diatribe falls a little flat.
Bull. You need to drive around the country side and take a look. Most of rural America looks no better than rural Mexico. Fortunately for our society we have centers of non-third-world trailer park dwellers known as "cities" and with these we still hold a little clout with the rest of the world.
"Get away with"? Since when did simple facts become something one needs to "get away with"? Racism isn't stating facts, racism is attributing those facts to some genetic component instead of the actual causes like poverty and cultural/social issues.
Sadly, you're probably right. Everyone's so quick to jump up and down showing how non-racist they are they'll take any statement they can as racist because, by extension, pointing out how horribly racist everyone else is shows how non-racist you are these days.
Racism isn't even ascribing the facts to genetics. Racism is ascribing the attribute to all members of the group without discrimination. It could, for example, be a fact that black people commit more crimes. It could be a fact that they do so due to a genetic inclination. But if I judge an honest black person to be a criminal because he's black, that's racism, because there are (clearly) exceptions to these 'rules'.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
there's nothing left to exercise power
EXCEPT the corporate oligars.
FTFY.
Sincerely,
Glenn Beck
What they are trying to infer from the article is stupid. It just goes to show how you can manipulate statistics. It's like comparing, "Apples" (no pun intended) to Oranges. Mac users tend to be more young, educated, urban? Well perhaps because the Windows platform is pretty much default and de-facto versus choice. If you had around the same population size for mac users and windows users, perhaps you'd get something more meaningful. But the fact that the latter group is way larger than the first is like saying "Most Russians' exercise is walking. But the Russians who have dance as an exercise tend to be young, beautiful and strong."
So, that means that more Apple users are gay. After all, many more educated, younger, urban people are gay, use social networking more, take public transportation, have excessive student loan debt, have less pets, get married later, have less kids etc..
It is a totally different life style from non urban, blue collar workers that is not a direct result of them owning an Apple computer.
You can not draw any real conclusions from the very limited amount of data they collected and released. Unless you want to believe that buying an Apple computer will make you a gay liberal.
You've obviously never been poor, uninsured, and sick in the USA.
>>No. Just no.
probably written on a mac
Indeed "urban" IS code for "black" which may not work in this context because "black" is not code for "computer owner."
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
In Sweden, if someone is:
* a royalist
* a conservative
* from a US friendly subculture(*)
he is more likely to use a Mac. [Almost no Swedish women use Mac. I even think there is more female Swedish Linux users, then male Swedish Linux users, at least among the youth.]
The additional cost of acquiring a Mac have never been a big deal for ethnic Swedes (but could be to some recent immigrant groups), so it have never had the reputation of being a computer made for wealthy people, nor been a status symbol, like it seem to be in USA. It used to be the computer of the graphic industry, but since OS X, that is not the case anymore.
(*) There are some US friendly, or even obsessed, Swedish subcultures. Like raggare, stekare (similar to the urban US rich douche) and the racist extreme right wing (most of them have a great admiration for Ku Klux Clan and similar US movements and, by extension, anything US branded). In any pro-US Swedish subcultures, you find more Macintosh computers then in the rest of the population.
Ever since Ronnie Raygun and his starwars fantasy, the only real debate has been which type of utopia to squander all our resources on. A shiny umbrella of light, to illuminate the poor and downtrodden; or a shiny umbrella of light, to incinerate all who disagree.
GNU/Linux users were most likely Communist, while GNU/HURD users said they were "masochistic".
I live in rural Arkansas, and you're full of shit.
I can drive down the road to Zinc, which is probably the nastiest, stereotypically hillbilly town you'll ever see. The poorest there live in run-down trailer houses, have three or four vehicles in the front yard in various states of repair, and they all have 30+ inch flatscreens on the wall. They are poor because of the choices they make, not because of lack of opportunity or ability.
Now, go do the same in rural Mexico. You'll see people living in dwelling constructed of native materials, with no electricity, running water, or sanitation. Further, there is near zero opportunity for them to improve their situation, short of move to another area with no financial support.
Seriously suggesting that "poor in America" is equivalent to "poor in Mexico" is so far from reality it's laughable. Try stepping outside your bias sometime, and see the real world for what it is.
Learn about Photography Basics.
perhaps you speak some truth, but:
I would imagine Mac users are also...
More likely to passionately believe that Obama is the Messiah.
More likely to scoff at people who don't have the right $150 jeans from Abercrombie.
More likely to be overpriveleged spoiled children of rich parents.
In short, more likely to be young self hating white democrat socialist surrender monkeys?
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Someone who gets it. Government is the seat of coercive power - allowing it to grow unchecked gives companies incentive to develop and wield influence over it.
Learn about Photography Basics.
That is a crock of shit. I live in the Ozarks, which with Appalachia, constitute friggin' poor. I've also been in Mexico. Huge difference.
"... centers of non-third-world trailer park dwellers known as "cities"
Never mind. I see you simply see rural as same. Self blinded.
mac: shiny, and with unix under the hood, costs about 3-4 times what it should.
linux: shiny, and with unix under the hood, costs exactly what it should ($0).
I think we can all agree on these simple truths, and based on these truths:
mac user: a fool recently parted from his money.
You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
It was said Macs are like Catholicism and PCs are like Protestantism, from one of these /. threads of the Mac vs. PC. One of comments is you're guarenteed salvation but have to follow the faith, the other is finding salvation is up to your own devices (choices).
mfwright@batnet.com
What about the other 23%? I am sure Linux users would have something to say about the age, intelligence, and political test.
Homosexuality may not be a trait of liberalism, but homophobia appears to be popular among conservatives...
Only if they can afford it, which despite the American ideal of getting a job, is not always an option. I've been there. Get laid off. Lots of other people in the area do all. Even McDonald's isn't hiring. It can make for a rough time. Food isn't much of a problem (from my experience) as there are food banks and kitchens enough to eat fairly well. Shelter is iffy without a job. There aren't enough beds in shelters for the normal homeless population and nobody wants a tent city in their backyard. Health care and dental isn't really even in the consideration when you can't pay rent, so your only option might be some overbooked clinics and the ER if things get bad enough. Everywhere but a handful of cities in the USA, that also assumes you have access to a car (and associated expenses) because there is no public transit worth speaking about and things are too spread out get anywhere without one.
Then you get into defining 'better' when talking about healthcare. Acute healthcare is much better in the USA than the rest of the world. Not that most of the US can really afford that care. The rest of the world considers it better if it is an available service that people can actually use.
Oddly, even the poorest US citizen has access to food, shelter, and far better health care than you do.
Really?
I make an ok amount, a little over $40k a year. I have a Wife and 2 kids. My wife is a teacher (got her degree in 08), and between the two of us, we weren't doing to badly. She graduated magna cum laude, but after getting laid off due to the economy, she can't find a job anywhere. There are so many teachers out of work subbing, she can only get about 1-3 days a week, making just enough to cover her student loan payments and gas to drive to work.
I get medical through my job (already the least expensive my company can find), my wife and kids had been getting it through hers, that just ran out. To add my wife and kids to my medical is between $900-$1000/month. That is nearly 1/2 of my net take home per month. There is NO WAY I can afford that, so as of right now, my wife and kids have no insurance.
I don't know what dream land you live in. There are a LOT of people worse off than I have it, and things are really bad right now for a lot of us.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
I laughed. I might be the only one who got it, though.
So given the stereotype of Mac users, are they trying to say that Mac users are Elitist snobs? Or maybe its the stereotype where Big Government controlling everything and Apple completely controlling the closed MAC experience are similar? Or maybe its the Apple fanboy mentality that refuses to believe PC users can be smart?
Yep, sounds like Democrats vs Republicans to me.
If homophobia is prevalant amongst conservatives, which political orientation would an average homosexual prefer?
From a european point of view, both US conservatives and liberals are extremist right wing.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
I don't know where you're driving around at. I'm from Oklahoma with roots in the Ozarks of Arkansas and most rural people I've seen still have running water, electricity, phone, cable and internet. Not to mention a car (and sometimes more than one but it's usually up on blocks in the yard).
I have hated macs well before there where macs, since the days I was forced to use an Apple IIe. My hatred for Jobs does cloud my judgement some but the simple observation I have always said is that Macs were designed for Left handed people. Right brain thinkers. It's for people who like their bottons on the left and a desire to have form over function. Windows users [the ones who actually know how to use a computer] tend to want Function over form and the ability to actually get work done. That's just me though.
I use Windows and I'm virtually a Nazi. Mind you Microsoft gives more to the Democrats than the Republicans.
Just because I want to burn down Congress and blame it on the Mac users to justify a coup doesn't mean that Microsoft would agree with me.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Sorry, but community college doesn't count, Mac users.
If the patient is diseased you do not kill the patient.
You do not kill the village to save it.
If some entity is too powerful you can't reduce its power by neutering the only challenger strong enough to temper it.
In short, you're swallowing the shit hook, line and sinker. The intention in the past 3 decades has been to corrupt government precisely so you can then say, "Look! Gov is corrupt! You don't want gov! Let us take over!"
The correct response is, "Yes! You corrupted it! Now it's time to remove corrupt elements."
And yet if you have a serious medical issue you can walk into an emergency room and won't be turned away. Try that in Mexico.
And if you continually strengthen the government, instead of a whole bunch of smaller corporate oligarchs running things, you have one all-powerful entity running things.
How is that better, exactly? How do you make a government the size of the US federal government accountable? Who can even understand everything that it does now? How does making it more powerful fix anything?
You don't solve problems rooted in complexity by adding onto the problem.
Using a Mac is just a point of being closedminded and not minding a lot of restrictions, that's clearly NOT a liberal or anybody really intelligent..
And yet if you have a serious medical issue you can walk into an emergency room and won't be turned away. Try that in Mexico.
Yes I know, that is what I am reduced to. When I get the 5 or 6 figure bill I will have no way of paying, I will most likely have to file for bankruptcy. Maybe I could convince the hospital I am an illegal alien, and not have to worry at all...
Now I am a contributor to the already out of control health insurance prices, and I have to live with that.
Oh, and FYI: "Public health care is provided to all Mexican citizens as guaranteed via Article 4 of the Constitution"
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Oddly, you're almost completely wrong.
While the poorest here generally have access to food, health care is available only for immediate emergencies, and will saddle you with enormous debt if you use it. The quality of that tremendously expensive emergency care is variable, and may be worse than anything that you'd get in South America.
Shelter can be completely unavailable, unless you consider the underside of a bridge to be adequate shelter. The shantytowns that the poorest in South America may call home aren't an option here - building codes will result in such a thing being bulldozed in short order.
I was testing the original iBook (the toilet seat cover-looking one) at Apple computers many years ago, and I complained to a friend that the USB ports were on the left-hand side. The original hockey-puck mouse had a fifteen inch cable, so this was especially annoying. "Only one out of nine people are left-handed... this makes no sense!" I fumed...
There was an Apple engineer there who was listening intently, and chimed in, "You're absolutely right--but do you know how many *Mac* users are left-handed?" No.... "One in two."
Never got any confirmation on that one, but it has seemed to jibe with personal experience... as well as the "liberal Mac vs. conservative PC" thing, hardly surprising.
Yes, we all understand that to Europeans, the populace exists to serve the government. The only question the Europeans have is what the goals of government should be. The U.S. still has some people who believe that the government should serve the populace and that individuals should be the locus of all power.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
But making sense out of the numbers all depends on the question you're trying to ask.
If you're most interested in knowing that given that someone (a) is a liberal and (b) took the survey, what are the odds that they have a Mac vs. having a Windows machine, then you're way of presenting the numbers is more illumanitive.
But if you're most interested in knowing that given that someone (a) owns a Mac and (b) took the survey, what are the odds that they are a liberal vs. being a converative, then you're way of presenting the numbers isn't very illumanitive. In fact, it's a bit misleading.
So it isn't the numbers that are misleading. It's taking the numbers for the answer to a particular question that is misleading.
It's one thing to be educated relative to automotive mechanics and another thing to be educated in anthropology just like it's one thing to be self-educated and another thing to be educated in an institution of some sort.
That said, in most fields, the odds of someone with a graduate degree in that field being better and more educated than someone who isn't are pretty high. There are exceptions. But they are just that, exceptions.
If mac people are smart then what the heck are they doing buying an glorified laptop for 3 times the cost; from a company that dependents on their users own lack of intelligence.
You have an inflated evaluation of rural America. Compared to other Western countries, we are no better on the bottom end than any other. We just like to pretend we are....USA!! USA!! USA!!
I didn't say the people living in trailers and rv's (that don't actually move) did so because of a lack of opportunity or ability. I agree they chose to live like that. It doesn't change the fact we have an entire bottom 3rd of our country living like bad parts of Rio. The fact many do so BY CHOICE makes it even worse.
Now if you'll take of your jingo-colored glasses for a moment...
If you count wanting the lowest-common-denominator of 'just works' computing and blindly following a cult as 'Liberal' then sure, Mac users are 'Liberal'. I think a better term would be "Trend-Whore Hipsters".
Windows computers require a little more comprehension of how computers work to use, but they are more widely supported and far more powerful on the software end. They also are more 'liberal' in that everything you run on them doesn't have to be 'verified and approved' by Fuhrer Jobs and his crew. I can sit down and write any program I want, for free...
Apple requires me to register for their developer program, pay them for the right to do the developing, and then submit my applications for approval.
Fuck Apple. They are evil, and anyone who denies it is completely blind or under their cult-like spell.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
CNN ran a version of this article a couple days ago, at least they pointed out that the study was "unscientific."
Therefore this study is nothing more than flame-bait.
I am a well-educated, young Engineer and I use a Mac. I'm also a Republican (not one of those crazy ones you see on TV, a real one).
With the richest individuals having the most power? That is where the actual argument is...
The U.S. still has some people who believe that the government should serve the populace and that individuals should be the locus of all power.
To bad that those of us that believe this are in a very small minority.
Lets not mistake believing that the individuals should be the locus of power with the more common thought that the capitalists (those that control capital) should be the locus of power. An elected government, when elected by knowledgeable people, has a far better chance of representing the individuals than a de-facto government set up by the capitalists by virtue of their capital alone.
seriously who fund these types of crap topic research projects
"Educated" =/= "intelligent"
There seems to be a lot of social status posturing over who is "educated," but I'll take the guy with his GED and practical experience over the graduates of third-tier liberal arts colleges, stadium-like state schools and community colleges whose main claim to fame is that they are "educated" even if they are incapable of basic business, social and intellectual function.
Futurist Traditionalism
Whoever misused the word "urban" (which means: "from/in town") for "black" should be forced to listen to a phone hotline operated by non-native speakers for no less than 10 hrs.
This should be required reading for anyone interested in getting into internet debates with libertarians:
http://world.std.com/~mhuben/libindex.html - Critiques of libertarianism.
(It should also be required reading for anyone who actually buys into that incoherent nonsense.)
I have no idea what you are saying. I am unaware of anyone who says that capitalists should be the locus of power.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
You can vote politicians out of power. You can't vote corporations out of power.
You know the old sayings: Politicians are like diapers. You should change them often and for the same reason. Be careful to hand power only to people and institutions you can change within a reasonable time frame and without too much of a bloodshed.
...and linux uses are smarter, better looking, and generally superhuman. So what?
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
No. We Europeans understand that there is only one reason for a government to exist: to serve us. And if the government doesn't serve us right, we fire it and elect a new one. We are very vary against institutions we can't fire and elect anew, this is one of the reasons why the EU is often frowned upon - most europeans fear they can't change the EU enough to serve them.
But once we had agreed that the government is our servant, we are ready to trust it with lots of stuff to do for us - because if it doesn't work out as advertised, we will just fire the government and hire another.
MOST liberals are elitist, snot nose brats that think they know everything, are superior than everyone else, and are dumb enough to pay 10 bucks for a cup of water with coffee beans, along with expensive computers, like the Mac ;)
Unfortunately, they must be counting Arts degrees as education.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
"Amongst other things, the survey also indicated that Mac users were, on average, more urban, younger and more educated than PC users, which could potentially be a contributing factor toward being more liberal."
If you're a "more educated" Liberal, your inability to differentiate between correlation and causation may result in conclusions like the ones presented in this article....
http://xkcd.com/552/
Not to mention your susceptibility to "hip" marketing campaigns from walled-garden empire building technology companies....
Here's the definitive PC vs Mac vs Linux illustration
Wait, so what if I'm using all 3? Does that just mean I'm conflicted?
Oh, you had me, up to 'electric Jew.'
Mac users tend to be very political about their platform and PC users just don't give a sh*t about Windows for the most part. They just do not want to pay for or be stuck on its platform.
How many people people actually like Windows? I tend to prefer Windows 7 over Linux because of Gnome-shell/Unity and KDE 4 on the desktop. But it is not because I feel Windows is sooo awesome! Infact, I use it because it sucks less then it did and I do like WIndows 7 interface but I am aware running Php and doing anything more than basic is simply irritating. Thank god for Virtual Box.
This is bad for Microsoft. Witness the implosion of Windows Mobile after the Blackberry and Iphone. If Andriod tablets take off and netbooks start coming with it you can bet you will see a migration off of Windows.
I'm a Windows user, and I'm a great deal more liberal than many of the Mac users I know.
Yes well buy a Mac and you will be more educated, huh. Advertisement can be weird sometimes. I still love PCs, after all Macs are becoming them this days. Now the have Intel CPUs, and their OS is partially based on FreeBSD and their interface like Windows. Yet you don't have software for that. Do i need a painting to admire or tool to work? Let's put it this way, i have today what Mac users have to wait years to get at exorbitant prices and then have to crack/jailbreak to be able to use what i am completely free to do. It would be interesting to measure Mac users intelligence as well and see what comes out :). And.. liberal? Yes well maybe with so much jailing that is a side effect. They have the need to become more liberal (i wonder if the article writers ever thought about that).
let's have some fun though...
1. apple fans are more liberal. not really a surprise, but what does this really say about apple users' mentalities and democratic socialism?
2. apple fans are more educated. Define education. More educated or more easily indoctrinated?
3. city life vs rural life.. the irony here is that apple fans tend to be more 'green' oriented, meanwhile, this 'research' (I use the term loosely) says they prefer city life. cities are terrible for the environment. This begs the question: Is there a link between apple fandom and a pathological desire to be hip, driven by deep rooted social insecurity? Considering apple's marketing methods, it would not be surprising.
4. partying itself is innocuous. However, those who throw them often usually have feelings of inadequacy. In short, they try too hard to be 'social.'
5. this would explain why most writers prefer apple while most technological professionals prefer windows/linux/bsd. people into math, logic, and reason are more likely to use the right tool for the job rather than build political ideologies around their hardware choices. while it is true that apple tends to be popular in several technical disciplines, these disciplines are most often focused on aesthetics and art rather than hard science. (web design, publishing, media).
6. naturally. apple users are always looking for similarities in others so that they can feel confident that they are part of the group. most pc users are self-confident so are more apt to see differences first..perhaps. like the 'research' done here, this post contains a number of hypotheses and extrapolations.
7. this last one is quite telling. apple users need their egos propped up by the surrounding social structure more than pc users tend to. I don't think anyone would find this surprising.
The only interesting question to understand the meaning of these kind of data is : where does the money comes from ?
Well, in this case, I think I might have a clue.
voted for nader?
"Mac users were, on average, more urban, younger and more educated than PC users, ....."
Based off this comment, I can only assume the OP is an extremely dedicated PC user.
[Liberal | Mac user]: Don't you worry a bit, cause [the gub-mint | Obama | Steve Jobs] is gonna save you from [viruses | spyware | poverty | health care costs | terrorists]. Just pay us a whole lot of money and you won't have the slightest thing to fear, cause we'll take care of it all.
[Conservative | Windows user]: Get the fuck out of my life, [Congress | Obama | Steve Jobs], and give me my [guns | antivirus | regedit]. I'll take care of myself as much as possible and I don't want to pay your ridiculously high [taxes | prices] to have you coddle me.
Unfortunately, liberal governments don't "work" and they cost much more than 50% more.
I disagree. Our "bottom" has food, clothing, shelter, and many luxuries available to them. The "bottom" in many places have none of these things.
This is not an "America" thing - this is a "first world" thing. The general welfare of a US citizen is approximately on par with that of a citizen of Sweden, for instance. To equate poverty in a developed country with poverty in an undeveloped one is simply not support be reality.
Learn about Photography Basics.
I completely get how you would think that the view is crazy. I believe that I responsible for myself, my family, and no one else. That responsibility comes *way* before helping others in society.
It long ago got to the point where paying taxes costs more than providing the basic necessities for my family. There's something wrong with that.
Learn about Photography Basics.
I'm not comparing poverty in a developed country with poverty in undeveloped countries. I distinctly said other western developed countries. The lowest tier of rural America is no better off than the the rest of the developed hemispheres. And like I said, this is extra sad, because it is mostly by choice.
I've lived in Tunisa, Yemen, and Egypt. If you think Mexico is on par with these countries, you haven't seen much of the world.
I've also lived in England and Germany, whose bottom tier are far better of than America (again, mostly by choice).
That's an urban legend. There may be a few (notable!) exceptions, where right-wingers are merely 'in the closet' about some issue (whether being pedophiles or gay, etc), but most of them are legitimately conservative. Conservatism is based on a genetic inclination to fear the unknown to an unreasonable degree, and therefore most conservatives are not experimental when it comes to sex or any other aspect of their lives.
OK, so I am about as right wing as you can get on fiscal/taxing/spending issues, moderate on social issues (so long as I don't have to in any way pay for others' proclivities, or have it rammed down my throat, no pun intended). I wouldn't vote for a Democrat to get out of a burning phone booth. Think Ron Paul with less isolationism. I am as far from a prude as you can get and still be legal and hetero, I hold a doctorate, and have been a Mac user for 30 years and Apple stockholder for 20.
There's my inductive reasoning debunking of TFA for the day.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
23% of people have above average intelligence. you're a 'pc' or 'mac' user, not person.
Core demographic
pc users are more likley to be gen-x. mac users are more likely to be gen-y.
gen-y are more liberal. as you get older you get more conservative.
pc users are more likely to be raising a family in quiet areas. mac users are living more fast paced lifestyle.
not as many of gen-x complete a 4 year degree (pc). it's easier to get a degree these days (mac).
Personality
gen-x content with the status quo (pc). gen-y still wants to be a hero (mac).
gen-x has family and doesn't party as much. gen-y still living the fast life (mac).
gen-x more 'glass half empty' (pc). gen-y still young and stupid (mac).
gen-x more rational / technical (pc). gen-y care more about socialising (mac).
Fashion, taste & Aethetics
gen-x knows more about real art (pc). gen-y sucked in by marketing (mac).
around 30% of people are sucked in by the latest fashion trends.
gen-x more masculine (pc). gen-y more prissy (mac).
Food & Drink
gen-x are letting themselves go a bit (pc). gen-y is more health conscious (mac).
gen-y are more hippie then gen-x. gen-x has out-grown the hippie phase of life.
gen-x have a budget to deal with (pc). gen-y is splurging (mac).
Technology
gen-x are keeping afloat today's tech companies (pc). gen-y is dillusional and sucked in by tv/net celebs (mac).
pc users are more likely to be tinkerers. mac users call apple support and consider it fixing it themselves.
gen-x has less money so waits for refined products (pc). gen-y has cash to burn so buy the new shiny (mac).
Media
gen-x has less time read due to other commitments (pc). gen-y says they read the times, but likely never have (mac).
gen-x has narrowed it's comedy field (pc). gen-y finds office life hilarious, likely hasn't worked in one (mac).
gen-x knows decent production (pc). gen-y wants to look fringe (mac).
pc users have a broad taste. mac users pretend they have sophisticated tastes.
mac users more likely to be obnoxious and self centered. pc users more likely to have a lfie.
overall though what's it's really showing are the differences between gen-x and gen-y.
Given the vast majority of the PC installed base over Macs, the Obama presidency doesn't bear out this premise of PC verses Mac users.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
confessed drug addict, wasn't he? Hippie then... Oh, wait. he played the pity card, didn't he. Just like Tammy Faye.
Mac users were, on average, more urban, younger and more educated than PC users
If they are more educated they would know how to use their blasted computers! uuugggggghhhhhhhh....
Balderdash!
...wear black berets, eat cheese and breathe flatulence.
Of course they're more liberal... how many *straight* users do you know? lol The sad part is, to do any kind of real work they always end up resorting to using parallels with windows installed anyways. I mean, if you're gonna pay a lot, don't buy 2 OS's and an overpriced laptop. There's like what, 2 programs that aren't on windows or linux?
It's B.S. for someone to even bother taking these surveys and studies anyways but I guess someone needs the money real bad.
I for one wouldn't be caught dead using one of those girly makup case looking laptops, let alone at starbucks. hahaha.
3x on something that does 1/2 as much? really? got a cite?
moron.
Obvious question: What about the political leanings and socio-economic end educational status of Linux users?
thegodmovie.com - watch it
...before you decide to turn into a pedofile. Don't deny it, the soon to be guilty ones always deny it.
is convincing their supporters that learning is bad.
The greatest trick was to convince them that if Jesus was alive today he would have anything at all to do with the Republican party.
It's true!
Macs cost more and don't operate with as much software or hardware as PC's do, period. It's well known douchebag. For example, care to show us as many games that run on MacOS X as they do on Windows-based PC's douche? Nothing to say, douche?? Thought so. You were clearly STUPID enough to pay almost 3 times what a PC costs for a Mac that does 1/2 as much (IF that).
I was thinking urban means hipster faggot
I'm genuinely curious about the tendencies of Linux users. Maybe they could redo and/or expand this poll?
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/18/ipad-2-wife-says-no-but-apple-says-yes/
They are effeminate, henpecked pussies too.
"Ooh, honey, can I please spend my hard earned money on something I like? Pretty please?"
*Wags tail furiously*
Pathetic.
Perhaps instead of this "uh huh!" "nuh huh!" match, you could state what city or cities you are talking about so you can stop being so damned vague. Los Angeles is not a good example.
Living in a trailer/RV/whatever and living with a clean hygiene lifestyle (note I added the clean hygiene part) in no way brings anyone near Rio.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
There are a number of studies on this. I suggest you go read the source materials.
You mean the ones funded by either liberal or conservative groups, then end up having as much "science" as a paper on Phrenology?
No thanks. In my experience people are not so easily pigeon-holed, the Liberal/Conservative schism is a made-up one, meant to mask deeper issues and divisions that don't fall along the same lines but meant to make you inclined to be on a side you'd not be otherwise.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So, they're now trying to correlate what kind of computer you use with your political views? Why the fuck is this worthless garbage story even on slashdot? The mods seriously need to be replaced.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
More Liberal? Right, that's why they need to be watched and tracked.
Right. You're comparing "Oh no, I'm broke!" to "Oh fuck, I live in a shithole 2nd borderline-3rd world country!". Give me a fucking break. If you're not totally retarded in the US you can get shelter, enough food to survive, and access to emergency health care with the best technology there is.
No, you're not going to get top tier cancer treatment without insurance or lots of money. You're not getting it anywhere in South America at all unless you're very rich.
In short, a dirt poor US citizen is better off than a lower-middle class (or below) person anywhere south of the US border.
Wow, that's almost proof that education makes you more stupid. Well for you stupid Americans anyways.
Me, I'm a conservative Mac using non-American almost with a science PhD. And a creationist...
Go figure...
A lot worse than you have it? Seriously? Get some fucking perspective. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sound like things are going well and I absolutely empathize. A lot of people aren't that far off from losing a whole lot of their lifestyle.
That said - call me when you don't have a car to drive, cable TV, access to emergency room care, food, etc... Do you own a house? If so, sell it - move to an apartment.
Bad off is when you can't get food or shelter or emergency medical care. Anything above that is gravy and just something Americans seem to think we're all "entitled" to.
RE: Mexican healthcare. You're fucking joking, right? Mexican healthcare is shit, and poor people here in the US have far more options than poor people in Mexico.
Stop lying. Who cares about enormous debt if you're going to die? Plus there are usually state medical programs for poor people.
Second, pick a random hospital in the US and a random one in South America. The odds are so close to 100% that the South American hospital is far worse than the US one that it's not even funny.
Third, unless you're insane and don't want to avail yourself of them, it's almost impossible to have the underside of a bridge be your only option for shelter. Please, go find me someone living under a fucking bridge who isn't insane, or a complete and total drug or alcohol addict.
about sexual orientation (ducks).
Fred, you are all over the place. My point is I only have access to health care currently if I want to go through bankruptcy. Now I should sell my house that I have worked 25 years to get.
The cost for health care in the U.S. is out of control. Other countries (Canada, Australia, etc) in the world look at us and can't believe we don't have health care for all of our citizens. Canadians pay about $50 a month, with no co-pay or deductible. But you would probably say, that people in all other countries have no idea what they are talking about. It is us (the U.S.) that have it wrong.
A good friend of mine had to have a hernia operation while on vacation in Panama. He got excellent care and it cost him $.25 (yes 25 cents).
The right wing idea that conservatives in the U.S. (a unique group with no kin in the rest of the world) have it right and the rest of the U.S. and the world have no idea how to live or run a country is so egocentric it isn't even funny.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
To add my wife and kids to my medical is between $900-$1000/month. That is nearly 1/2 of my net take home per month. There is NO WAY I can afford that, so as of right now, my wife and kids have no insurance.
That sounds a lot like something you should have considered before you decided to have kids.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
You can vote politicians out of power. You can't vote corporations out of power.
Voting with your wallet does count, does it not? Think about the positive change that comes along with consumers voting with their wallet. The difference between corporations and politicians is that corporations are still just after your dollar, and if you demand changes or else will spend elsewhere, they will be forced to comply or else go out of business.
No such mechanism exists for politicians. You can vote for them all you want, but in the end, they have zero obligation to do what you'd like them to. Sure, we can always vote for a new politician, but does anything actually change?
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
More Liberal, Less Free
If the patient is diseased you do not kill the patient.
You do not kill the village to save it.
No, but you do quarantine the patient and make sure he can't touch and infect anyone else.
The intention in the past 3 decades has been to corrupt government precisely so you can then say, "Look! Gov is corrupt! You don't want gov! Let us take over!"
Why do people maintain this weird fantasy that there exists a secret boardroom of evil corporation executives meeting in a dark room developing a 30 year plan to bait-and-switch the entire country? Each corporation acts in its own individual interest, and the logic is much simpler: (1) I like power, (2) the government has power, therefore (3) I must sink my claws into government, thereby corrupting it.
Each corporation acts in its own individual interest
The premise of your argument is wrong.
A corporation is not a person and has no interest.
A corporation is effectively (individual shareholders or fund managers) the property of a few powerful individuals. And it is entirely in their self interest for these people to cooperate, whichever company they act to represent. Why the hell would you work against someone when you could both do much better by helping each other out?
The idea that big businessmen compete for the betterment of society is fantasy designed to make useful idiots (such as yourself, perhaps?) divide and squabble amongst themselves.
It is difficult for politics to remain out of the question and answer process of most polls, since people are human and the human experience lends itself to this type of inherent, prostitution type data, the end really does justify the results. The idea that owners of a particular computer system have a liberal or non-liberal political view is just about as significant as how many martians on mars drink martinis, for lunch every day.
Sadly, we are expected to believe this type of nonsense has some sort of scientific quantitate, value instead of the obvious bias instituted by those who engaged in data manipulation and counter productive poll management.
Stick to your dreams of ruling the earth and stay out of politics it is so much better for mankind.
No, voting with my wallet only works for corporations who are selling to me personally. And only for corporations for which a viable alternative exists. That's one of the reasons why I don't like the idea of utilities being privately held. I can't vote with my wallet against them, because I have to be their customer. So the only way to control them is if they are controlled by a government I can actually vote for or against. And that's also a reason why I am very vary against private health insurance - whenever I actually need them I am not in the situation where I can make concious decisions and freely compare options. For a health insurance company it's very easy to plunder my wallet - my emergeny situation is their business case.
(It has to be for a reason that the U.S. health system is by far the most expensive of the world. U.S. citizens pay about twice the money for health care than Europeans without really getting better care, with one exception. The cancer survival rate is actually higher in the U.S. than in Europa. The total life expectancy is not.)
Mac : PC = Democrats : Republicans
Functionally, they don't even pretend to be made of different parts anymore.
Came on, I got real evidence that the Mac users are not more educated than PC users ;)
http://martin.iturbide.com/?p=970
When you get down to the bottom nearly every choice is bad.
Instead of a pretty nasty "it's all their own fault" you could try "there but for the grace of God go I." For one thing the children in those places do not get to make the choices so can't be blamed. When they do get old enough they don't have the same range of choices you did.
on "clueless", "hipster" and "douchey"?
Only then we can put the ugly rumours to rest.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Well my anecdotes go like this: I took a drive from Austin (where I live) to go see the new Formula 1 track. No less than 5 miles outside of city limits, I could have sworn I was in Borat's hometown.
I used to live in Hinesville, GA (military town). Living proof that we aren't doing so hot at the bottom end. And from there it's that way 200 miles in any direction.
Even in ritzy Monterey CA, where I lived for several years, you have basically the equivalent of Tijuana Mexico right next door (Seaside).
I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Have you SEEN one of those towns that no longer have timber industry jobs?
Parent is modded as funny, but this is about the most insightful comment I have seen on this topic so far.
PS, Some of my best friends are arts graduates, but they do not have a clue about computers.
Why must everything be politicized? Now owning a Mac becomes a litmus test for conservative purity? People are becoming so polarized in the most ridiculous ways. "I don't know if I can associate with you. You use a(n) computer." It's like a person I was talking to this weekend, who seriously asked, "Should I be offended by that?" Listen, if you're not immediately offended by something, then why worry about it? Why go out of your way to MAKE yourself offended? That is just madness.
Proverbs 21:19
Yes stupid people use PC's and stupid people are Republicans, so why shouldn't there be a correlation?
The same Mike Huben who got his ass kicked all over Usenet years ago for his stupid strawman arguments?
Liberal in the US only means socialist if your a teabagger, a republican, i,e, Fascist.
I've never met anyone who properly understands the differences between Windows, Macs, and Linux who chooses to use Windows. Similarly with liberals vs conservatives (in the US sense of the words) - liberals seem to be the thinkers who critically examine alternatives and make informed decisions, and conservatives seem to be those who don't need to think because they already know that what they have/know/believe is right without having to consider alternatives. Both Microsoft and McDonalds like people who don't think too hard about what they are consuming. Of course us Linux users who like free stuff and like to contribute freely are the antithesis of all things capitalist and conservative. Linux users probably support healthcare for the poor as well. Terrible!
Oh, and BTW, in the Rest of The World (to which you are posting, by not posting to slashdot.org.us), "liberal" is not generally a term of abuse. Even here in Britain under our ConDem (pronounced as condemn) coalition.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
That Mac users tend to be more educated and liberal makes it more sad what Apple is doing with tracking people via their iPhones and iPads. They will just accept it, like Mac users just accept everything else from Apple, without even asking for lube.
you will start to learn that there is more to life than games. Have you noticed girls yet? you might want to look into that.
That sounds a lot like something you should have considered before you decided to have kids.
When I had kids, 15-20 years ago, insurance was cheap and employers covered my whole family at very little or no charge to me. I think you missed a great deal of the point. The skyrocketing cost of health care.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
yet believe that gays should be allowed to marry, all drugs should be legal, the right of the unborn to have their lives legally protected, and that we should pull our military back home from all countries while balancing the budget. I also own an iPad and an Android phone that provides a mobile WiFi hotspot for the ipad. I'm hoping I just broke your convenient labeling system.
"There but for the grace of God go I" is a very common phrase you should have encountered at some point by now if you've done much reading in the English language. It really has nothing to do with God at all but instead means that if circumstances were different you could be the guy who got a different choice of parents or other uncontrollable situations - it just comes out as "grace of God" instead of fate, karma or whatever because of the age of the quote that has been so often repeated.
A bad accident with head injuries plus loss of loved ones and you too could be a crazy homeless guy that nobody cares about. That's the sort of thing it means.
Stuff happens that is beyond our control no matter what you or I believe in. I don't believe in any sort of predetermination either but that doesn't matter - the saying is about what HAS happened and that similar things can happen to anybody.
Onto the next stories of the Ric Romero News Update Show....
- Troops that have the high ground tend to win battles.
- Babies like Milk.
- News Organizations tend to have short attention spans.
- Gravity still works, video at 11.
- Computers tend to crash at the exact wrong time, usually when you next task is to start a backup job.
- Virtually nothing man-made today will survive 10 million years, video in year 10,002,011A.D.or C.E. (hopefully we will have flying cars by then).
See subject-line mac moron... and the replies others are putting up as well (any douchebag can get an "arts" degree, after all - this is typical Mac FUD b.s., that more educated people use MacOS X). More stupid ones is more like it. Fact is, You paid a lot more for a Mac, and it only does 1/2 as much as a PC running Windows does (IF that), and it's no safer from attack than a PC running Windows is, period (despite all the FUD on TV, because once Mac usage went up? So did attacks on MacOS X...). Games are a prime example but there are many others as well as far as PC's just plain doing more too.
So much for your off topic lame reply mac douche. You clearly don't possess the intelligence to get the best of myself in a debate and you're forced into your off topic crap. You FAIL.
You can stick to whacking off using your Mac over there. I prefer live entertainment.
"Have you noticed girls yet? you might want to look into that. - by Brannon (221550) on Monday April 25, @11:12AM (#35929450)
No thanks. It's quite apparent you have and that you utilize your MacOS X for beating your meat online, hahaha! Oh, yes: The "Superior Utility" of a Mac! Lmao
No. You made that up.
See? Ipse dixit. :-)
-=Maggie Leber=-
No, but surprisingly it's not TPM/HuffPo/DemUnderground/DailyKos either.
-=Maggie Leber=-
How are they measuring "more educated"? Having spent more time in college or university to collect more lamb-skin attendance certificates doesn't mean that they actually *learned* anything.
No, I get it. I'm sure that's how it was when you first had kids. I'm just saying, it's prudent to plan for worst-case scenarios when you're deciding how you're going to financially support a family.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
Dont have time for games, or broken computers. But I do have time to get on my boat and have a life. *cya suckers*
Question mark? How does not believing you imply I'm both a mac user and gullible?
No, you stop lying. The option of going into enormous debt is only there if you're in immediate danger of dying. Otherwise, there is no health care unless you have cash or insurance. The state programs are only available if you have children or are a child. And forget about dental or vision care.
I'd say the odds are probably closer to 70 - 30 that you'd find a better hospital here by picking one at random. But it doesn't matter how good that hospital is if you can't pay for it, and millions of Americans can't. The care you get if you're poor and can't afford to pay is minimal, they'll save your life, but put you back on the street, and with your medical debt, you can forget ever owning anything again.
And it's not hard to find people who have no options for shelter. The shelters are full, they're turning people away every day.
I can drive down the road to Zinc, which is probably the nastiest, stereotypically hillbilly town you'll ever see. The poorest there live in run-down trailer houses, have three or four vehicles in the front yard in various states of repair, and they all have 30+ inch flatscreens on the wall.
Oh, those poor Zincsters! Living in such a backwards town with near zero opportunity for them to improve their situation, short of moving to another area with no financial support.
Now, go do the same in rural Mexico. You'll see people living in dwelling constructed of native materials, with no electricity, running water, or sanitation.
Those lazy mexicans! They are poor because of the choices they make!
Try stepping outside your bias sometime, and see the real world for what it is.
Look, a double-standard! How cute! An American who likes to lie? I am shocked!
Both places are part of the same shitty world full of the same lovely people.
And yet you have this cute idea that your country is somehow different? Where do you live? Oh yeah, Arkansas. Figures.
Wait... so Mac users are more PC than PC users??!!
I have no idea what you are saying. I am unaware of anyone who says that capitalists should be the locus of power.
That's the problem, most of the people that think this way would never say it, and only think this way because they haven't really thought things through. Unrestricted capitalism leads to the situation where capital is the only measure of power, and therefore capitalists become the locus of power. Once you can buy and sell anything, then you have handed over power to those that control the means of production. And if you start with an environment where 1% control the means of production, you have basically chosen to give up your freedom in exchange for serfdom.
I still don't know what you mean, what do you mean by "unrestricted capitalism"?
In a complete free market system where all the government does is provide for the common defense, restrict the use of violence and enforce contract law, wealth does not accumulate in the hands of the few.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
This makes no sense at all.
Zinc is about 10 miles from a town of 12,000 people. It is also the home of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan - the people that live there choose to do so. They all have cars, and they all have access to better jobs and education.
Second, how the hell does the fact that Mexico lacks the material infrastructure to support opportunities for those people make them "lazy"? Even without it, many Mexicans work in maquiladoras, particularly near the borders. They aren't lazy, they are simply poor and in a geographic location that isolates them.
Yes, I live in Arkansas. I moved *back* to Arkansas - life is substantially slower here, the people are generally more welcoming, and it is a good place to raise my children. Don't let that stop you from assuming I'm a backwards, barefooted hick though.
Learn about Photography Basics.
what the fuck is this article saying? More educated people are liberal. Fuck that if you are a liberal you are a fucking dumbass just like Obama. Oh, he went to Harvard and now his going to run this country bankrupt. The notion that liberals are more educated is bullshit. They are only educated in fucking law which I find to be dumb since our whole legal and political system is fucked up. Conservatives on the contrary are educated in real subjects other than the art of bs. They make up the majority of our scientists and engineers.