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Windows XP Market Share Finally Falls Below 50%

An anonymous reader writes "At the end of July 2011, Microsoft can say that Windows XP finally fell below the 50 percent mark. In other words, Redmond's decade-old operating system is now used by less than half of all Internet users."

425 comments

  1. just sayin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It'd mean a whole lot more if they had installed Gentoo instead of 'upgrading' to Vista or Seven.

    1. Re:just sayin' by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That doesn't really seem like a logical upgrade path for an XP user. It makes a lot more sense for an XP user to move to Win7.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:just sayin' by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      The logical path is to stick with XP. And that seems to be what most people are doing.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:just sayin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The logical path is to stick with XP.

      I don't think you know what a path is.

    4. Re:just sayin' by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The logical path is to stick with XP. And that seems to be what most people are doing.

      I thought so, but I put Win7 on a recently-built computer and I really like it. I had to make a few adjustments to fit the way I like to work, but at least those adjustments are possible with Win7.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:just sayin' by petman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For a new computer, Win7 makes sense. However, I don't see much reason to upgrade an existing computer that is running Windows XP perfectly well. The only reason I can think of is if one's running 32-bit XP on a 64-bit computer and want to increase the RAM.

    6. Re:just sayin' by turing_m · · Score: 1

      A path need not continue forever. It can have a final destination.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    7. Re:just sayin' by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      The summary is not accurate. Just because 50% or fewer of those hitting their pages are using XP to browse the web doesn't mean that it has less than 50% of the desktop. I have multiple boxes, of which a few are XP that never hit the web. But that doesn't mean I don't use them. And, again, they imply that everyone that uses a computer uses the web. It's not even a good gauge. When it hits in the low 30% or even 20% then I'll think something of it, and that likely will be that people are upgrading their boxes, not their OS, and that the OS just comes along with it.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    8. Re:just sayin' by stewbacca · · Score: 0

      No, the logical path is to ditch the Fisher Price OS, skip the worst OS ever released, and go for the much better Win 7 OS.

    9. Re:just sayin' by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      The summary is not accurate. Just because 50% or fewer of those hitting their pages are using XP to browse the web doesn't mean that it has less than 50% of the desktop.

      True, but there is no reliable (and practical) way to measure the OS usage other than to look at web server hits. And since it is a purely arbitrary statistic which should not be used to determine which OS is right for you then it really doesn't matter how accurate the percentage is.

    10. Re:just sayin' by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 1

      skip the worst OS ever released

      Why would he consider installing Windows ME?

    11. Re:just sayin' by Osgeld · · Score: 2

      it was one of the few things that ran fine on a k62 with a VIA chipset

    12. Re:just sayin' by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Well, he could have skipped ME and XP and went from Win98 2E right to Win7 (the only 2 decent OSes out of Redmond in my lifetime).

    13. Re:just sayin' by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      skip the worst OS ever released

      Why would he consider installing Windows ME?

      Microsoft Bob just shed a tear because you forgot about him...:(

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    14. Re:just sayin' by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Informative

      However, I don't see much reason to upgrade an existing computer that is running Windows XP perfectly well.

      I agree, absolutely.

      All of my digital audio workstations that I use for music production still run XP SP3. Though I might see how my DAW apps run in Win7 just because I have access to a lot more RAM. The 64 bit versions that run in XP 64 are a little goofy still, but I hear the 64 bit versions run great in Windows 7.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:just sayin' by TehNoobTrumpet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Windows 7 is GREAT for DAWs. ReWireing Reason 5 into Live 8 without a hitch, couldn't do that on XP.

    16. Re:just sayin' by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tip. That's useful to know.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:just sayin' by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 1

      Well, he could have skipped ME and XP and went from Win98 2E right to Win7 (the only 2 decent OSes out of Redmond in my lifetime).

      I thought 2K was pretty good. I think I finally retired my last 2K box 3 years ago.

    18. Re:just sayin' by pckl300 · · Score: 1

      More shockingly, I don't think he knows the definition of "most".

      --
      In the beginning, there was null.
    19. Re:just sayin' by cheeks5965 · · Score: 1

      eww gross. don't hate on KimK.

      --
      -- Flame me and I will happily flame you back. Bring it!
    20. Re:just sayin' by mcvos · · Score: 1

      WinXP as a final destination is rather sad, though I admit I also have WinXP at home. I want to be able to play games, but I don't want to pay money to MS for their crappy OS.

    21. Re:just sayin' by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I'd have gladly stuck with it, but RAM limit of 4GB total was too troublesome and 64bit XP is an abomination. That and DX11.

      Other then that and lack of DX11 (which was done strictly to give W7 at least some desperate advantage over XP in the first place) XP is still a better OS by a mile and then some. I'm still annoyed as hell that I had to downgrade to 7 when buying my new system this july just to be able to fit 4GB of RAM and 1 GB 3d card and not have my OS's RAM cut by a 1/4 as it would map graphics memory and then proceed to not be able to use 1BG of system RAM.

      Granted I modded the hell out of UI to look like XP and turned off most of the retarded new "features" before even installing the drivers, but it's still a far cry from simpleness and ease of use of XP, as both the amount of features and "wizards everywhere, because user is retarded and can't use graphical configuration menu!" attitude OS has still pisses me off on regular basis.

      Give me XP interface and under the hood functionality with DX11 and proper 64bit support, and I'll be among the first in a very long list of people to throw 7 OEM disk into the trash and forever uninstall this piece of crap.

    22. Re:just sayin' by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      That is why its market share is dropping... At some point you will want a new computer. Granted our upgrade cycle is starting to slow from every 4-5 years to every 6-8 perhaps due to the switch of innovation of software from running on a PC to running over the Web as a Web App. However at some point you want your browser support more and faster rendering as your browser requires to do more work, by then you will need to upgrade your PC. Then you get Windows 7 or OS X Lion installed (if you choose you can put Linux on but that is not often a selling option, and besides even if you are going to use Linux, the cost difference between a Linux install and a Windows install is minimal... So you are better off being able to have a legit copy of Windows, and Install Linux after you get the PC)

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    23. Re:just sayin' by bored · · Score: 1

      There is a "hacky" but semi legit (as compared with actually hacking the 4G memory limit in the license) way to get around this. That is, install >4G of ram, and create a ramdisk with the extra memory. There are a number of free ramdisk products that will use the ram XP refuses to use. I'm using vsuite ramdisk (free). I've then moved my swap file to the ramdisk. Initially I thought it was going to be pretty horrible performance, but was shocked to barely notice the difference running a lot of vmware sessions consuming >6G of RAM. Same thing with photoshop.

      Heck if this trick was good enough for the mac, its good enough for windows...

    24. Re:just sayin' by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      I thought so, but I put Win7 on a recently-built computer and I really like it. I had to make a few adjustments to fit the way I like to work, but at least those adjustments are possible with Win7.

      I use Win7-64 at work on a powerful workstation, and I agree. One annoyance I haven't managed to fix yet is that it won't deign to tell me which application is craving my attention and keeps the task bar from hiding - the best workaround I've found is to kill explorer.exe. If there are any visual hints I frequently can't see them. Any suggestions?

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    25. Re:just sayin' by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Isn't that called a dead end or a cul-de-sac?

      In the case of Windows, there are other streets shooting off this path. Immediately forward is a small Vista followed by 7th avenue. Running parallel are some nice un-busy side streets that you can slide over to with an alley or two. Those alleys keep getting more and more common, and bigger too.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    26. Re:just sayin' by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      This is not correct. You can measure in other ways, as has been done for years and years. The web hits measurement is only used because it is easy. It is also highly inaccurate.

      And my point still stands. Their methodology is extremely one sided. It fails to account for an amazing number of reasons why XP boxes would remain unaccounted for. Using web hits is so incredibly jaded because it is so easily manipulated toward their desired goal. For example, it is easy for the likes of Microsoft to claim a high percentage of IE users because to get updates you need IE.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    27. Re:just sayin' by PingSpike · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with XP x64? I rocked it for the last 3-4 years and never had a problem with it.

    28. Re:just sayin' by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Driver nightmare of epic proportions.

    29. Re:just sayin' by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Approx ditto here.

      It may have been closer to 4 years not 3. A couple of years in Vista hell, then finally broke the Window and [did something I haven't worked out a metaphor for] with the Penguin.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    30. Re:just sayin' by PingSpike · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt that was true when it first came out, but with the exception of a really old winmodem I had no problems finding or using any drivers whatsoever.

  2. No change here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still running it on a Dell P4 with 2gb ram. Yet to see a reason to upgrade. I don't game, I don't code. What do I need to upgrade for?

    1. Re:No change here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly if you don't want or need the new features and have adequately secured your install (firewall, etc.), and don't run as administrator, and don't mind that some newer software is no longer written to run on your platform then there is no reason to change it. Its fine to run older software as long as you aren't being limited by it or are OK with those limitations.

    2. Re:No change here by wagnerrp · · Score: 2

      Because the Pentium 4 was inefficient garbage. Assuming you leave it on all the time and replaced the board and processor with a Core 2 three years ago, you would have already made up the difference in power savings.

    3. Re:No change here by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Honestly if you don't want or need the new features and have adequately secured your install ... Its fine to run older software as long as you aren't being limited by it or are OK with those limitations.

      That's exactly what I think. My parents (in their sixties) use Windows XP that I installed, keep as up to date as it can be in terms of patches and the like, set them up with a lovely user account that limits what can be done. For the word processing that mum does, and the occasional bit of surfing that they do, there is totally no need for them to upgrade - and trying to teach them how to make things work ("How do I shut it down now? The button used to be there and look like this...") really isn't worth the neglidgable benefit to them.

      It is exactly like the old phones that they have - okay, color screens and the like, but no smartphone, no web surfing. They use it for making calls and the (very) occasional text message. Why on earth would they want to "upgrade" to a new shiny smartphone that they have to learn all over again for the simple features and would never use the additional stuff?

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    4. Re:No change here by kelemvor4 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Still running it on a Dell P4 with 2gb ram. Yet to see a reason to upgrade. I don't game, I don't code. What do I need to upgrade for?

      Don't game, don't code. What do ya do?


      Subtle innuendos follow

    5. Re:No change here by R4wBon3 · · Score: 2

      Adam, adam, adam!, adam, adam, ad. adam. Adam!, adam, adum, adum... (oh... that does not appear to be Adam...It looks like Steve...) Steve!, Steve steve, steve, eteve, steve...............

    6. Re:No change here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      :-)) It was Allan, not Adam ! :-))

    7. Re:No change here by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      So what? A Pentium 4 with enough RAM is adequate, and most users do not leave their machines on 24/7. If you only use that computer a few hours a day, then the power-savings take an eternity to amortize. Now I agree that, if you find a Core 2 Duo in a dumpster, you might as well upgrade. Up till now, I only have found one. Best machines I found are 939 socket AMD64, which is a nice step up from a P-IV.

      Alternatively, just go for an Atom. I use an Atom D525 with 2GB RAM for my normal desktop-usage (it runs Ubuntu though). It is more than sufficient.

      All this, still doesn't make the case to upgrade to Windows 7. Older Core 2 Duo, dumpster sourced AMD64 or even "modern" Atom (on par with that Pentium IV) still are better served with Windows XP as the "64-bit" argument isn't as important as they rarely support more than 2GB RAM. Yes, I know an AMD64 is 64-bit, but most motherboards of that time are limited to 2GB, and the Atoms can support 4GB RAM and 64-bit mode, but you rarely see an Atom coupled with that much RAM).

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    8. Re:No change here by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      7 does implement some new UI features that really improve usability, though... the window previews on the taskbar, changes to the way things are grouped, etc.. The desktop transparency effects are nice, but not necessary, but I do find the changes to the taskbar are huge for system usability and multitasking. On a 7 system, I don't need to remember to open programs in the right order like I do at work (you'd be surprised how much muscle memory is involved in switching between tasks), because anything that's pinned to the taskbar will be in the same location, and you can drag/drop to switch the order of programs that aren't pinned. That's not even touching the security, which is generally accepted to be much better.

      That said, all of the above can be duplicated easily with free operating systems. It doesn't make a case for upgrading to 7 specifically, but it does make a case for dropping XP in favour of something that's more usable. I have one Win7 system that I use for gaming... it hasn't been turned on in almost 2 weeks. If you're stuck in Windows-land, however, then I would strongly suggest 7 for usability and security improvements.

    9. Re:No change here by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I understand how a motherboard could limit the amount of installed memory when the memory controller was built into the CPU. Even still, the original AMD64 chips had no trouble supporting 4 and 8GB of memory. The problem was the memory controller on the original AMD64 chips had to downclock when too many ranks were installed, and it was simply difficult to find large enough DIMMs to actually hit 8GB.

      In any case, I don't agree with you on most users not leaving their systems on 24/7. At least in my experience, once people started moving to 'always on internet', they thought that meant they were supposed to leave their PC on all the time too. Either that, or they didn't know about sleep mode, and simply found a minute or so booting up the machine to use it inconvenient.

    10. Re:No change here by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Try the following... Older AMD64 motherboards are typically socket 754 or 939. In the case of 939 you might have four memory slots, but those are very rare: most 939s sport 2 slots. The 754 sockets only have two or three slots, and when there are three the speed is clocked lower than DDR400. Now go and look for DDR sticks, and tell me what the biggest stick you can get is. Yup, that would be 1GB. So, assuming two slots, that's 2GB RAM max, on a single channel 754 system with three slots, it would be 3GB but rarely at DDR400. Finally, for those lucky enough (as I say, they are rare), you can get up to 4GB RAM.

      So, yes, the motherboard limits how much RAM you can have, regardless if the chip supports more. For motherboards of that generation, you can as a rule assume 2GB max.

      Now, for the 24/7 case. My anecdotal evidence is completely inverse of yours. We could start bickering, but unless a comprehensive study is done, neither of use can really claim to know.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    11. Re:No change here by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Depending on how good you know Windows, you can easily secure it using Limited User accounts and avoiding Microsoft Software like the plague. Worked fine for me for years until I switched to Linux. I'm well aware that securing Windows XP is out of range of most Windows users, but once it's done, it's done.

      The usability is very relative. I personally know XP's GUI very well and how they mixed up everything again, makes me angry. Years of experience on for the recycle bin.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    12. Re:No change here by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      The Socket 754 boards almost always had three slots, and as you say, the commonly available size for DDR was 1GB, meaning 3GB maximum. The exception was for Mini-ITX systems, and to a lesser extent Micro-ATX, in which board space was at a premium. The Socket 939 boards almost always had four slots, again, for 4GB maximum. I have two of these systems personally, and another 250 on shelves at work. When I purchased mine ~5yrs ago, it was rare to find one with only two slots. You either had to get a small form factor board, or go for really cheap components, which were themselves rare since 939 was marketed to the enthusiast and not the bargain buyer. Of course my experience is from building my own hardware, and someone buying a pre-built OEM system may find two slots to be more common.

      However this is not a motherboard limitation, it is a CPU limitation. The CPU drives the memory, and the motherboard just provides the wiring to do so. The 754 chips were only capable of pushing 12 ranks out of its one controller. The 939 chips were only capable of pushing 8 ranks out of each of their two controllers. The motherboards couldn't add another pair of slots even if they wanted to, as the CPU didn't have the power to drive them. The whole purpose of buffered and fully buffered server memory is to reduce the load on the memory controller, and allow it to push three or more slots each.

    13. Re:No change here by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm a dumpster diver and my experience really is what I described. You see, in dumpster sourced machines, you mostly get OEM stuff and those are low cost components, hence the two slots. For both 754 and 939 socket, the only boards that had three or four slots were those I bought myself. Still, my point stands: given a 754 or 939 socket machine, you can only have a maximum of 4GB RAM (939, 4 slots) or 3GB RAM (754, 3 slots... clocked down). As such there is pretty much no advantage to running a 64-bit system.

      In this class of systems, buffered RAM (and I have seen 2GB buffered DDR400) is a non-option. They don't support it and even if they did, it would be prohibitively expensive to upgrade such machines from a consumer point of view.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    14. Re:No change here by Cable · · Score: 1

      Pentium 4 systems have power saving too. Windows XP has power saving features as well. For people not playing 3D video games and only doing word processing and web surfing a Windows XP P4 system is good enough.

      Sure XP does not run the latest Internet Explorer or Media Player but Firefox, Chrome, Safari, QuickTime work great.

    15. Re:No change here by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Indeed... I think that was my point, no? Upgrade if you can (or want) with discarded old gear (at no cost, or minimal cost for RAM) and be happy with what you have.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  3. Linux by war4peace · · Score: 1, Redundant

    ...And, of course, Linux took all the difference :)
    Now seriously though, old computers die. New computers come in, they either have no XP drivers or come with preinstalled/bundled Windows 7, or Linux flavors, or whatever, not to mention the vast array of Mobile devices which can connect to the Internet and have no room for Win XP. Windows XP use falling is expected, just like any old OS or OS version. I suspect much of the change comes simply because time passes.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    1. Re:Linux by Malc · · Score: 1

      I know you said it with a sense of humour, but to quantify from TFA: "Linux gained 0.03 percentage points (from 0.95 percent to 0.98 percent). Unsurprisingly, mobile operating systems gained share."

    2. Re:Linux by war4peace · · Score: 1

      True, it was intended to be a wee bit funny :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:Linux by ByzantineAlex · · Score: 1

      This must be the year of Linux...

    4. Re:Linux by Double+Drop · · Score: 1

      Hurrah! Year of the Linux Desktop predicted to occur in AD5311.

      --
      WarGear - Risk Everything
  4. Re:Still using it by war4peace · · Score: 1

    A true Windows XP user's mindset, because you came in second. but have no fear! It's not a bug, it's a FEATURE :)

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  5. Yes, but... by Guspaz · · Score: 2

    Yes, WinXP has dropped below 50% of the total market. But according to TFA, WinXP still has a 57% share of Windows installations.

    1. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the real news is that Windows developers should still primarily target XP, since it still has almost 60% install base and since it's much more likely that an application developed for XP will run on 7 than the other way around. And that will probably remain the case for years to come, possibly even after Microsoft drops support in 2014. I just hope that when new vulnerabilities are found after that date, antivirus writers will do what they can to protect their users.

    2. Re:Yes, but... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

      Maybe by then the windows-XP-compatible project will be mature. :^)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello.... how are you?

  6. Windows 7 is the new XP by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Windows 7 is the new XP

    1. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      Indeed, in that it will be around for a similar length of time, probably longer. Win7 will still be with us in 2020. Think about THAT.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    2. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, in that it will be around for a similar length of time, probably longer. Win7 will still be with us in 2020. Think about THAT.

      And isn't Microsoft shoving Windows 8 out next year? I have no idea what they're expecting to accomplish.

    3. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by substance2003 · · Score: 1

      And isn't Microsoft shoving Windows 8 out next year? I have no idea what they're expecting to accomplish.

      They expect to shove out v8 to then do v9 to ultimately have Windows OS X.

    4. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And isn't Microsoft shoving Windows 8 out next year? I have no idea what they're expecting to accomplish.

      Shoving? No idea? Are you willfully retarded?

      Windows 8 brings multi-arch to the Microsoft table. Expect to see Windows 8 on all your shitty ARM tablets, and shitty ARM phones, and shitty ARM netbooks.

    5. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by turing_m · · Score: 2, Funny

      Windows 8 brings multi-arch to the Microsoft table. Expect to see Windows 8 on all your shitty ARM tablets, and shitty ARM phones, and shitty ARM netbooks.

      Which is why 9 out of 10 proctologists recommend Windows 8. It has your shitty ARM covered.

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    6. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by SpryGuy · · Score: 1

      They're clearly trying to accomplish getting an answer to Apple's iPad, with a truly tablet friendly OS and UI that is also as powerful as a desktop. They hope that differentiation helps make up for how late they're coming to the game.

      They're also trying to unify the look and feel across their phones, tablets, and desktops... as well as providing a bridge between local computers and "the cloud" (sort of a half-step, as opposed to Google's Chromebook/ChromeOS).

      We'll see if the strategy works.

      Personally I think Win7 is a very good OS, and any time I have to go back and touch XP, I hate it more and more. Win7 is so much easier, so much more usable, so much powerful... I can't imagine why anyone with the hardware to run Win7 (which isn't that much) would still WANT to run XP.

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
    7. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Windows XP is the new Windows 2000. I only switched over to XP a couple of years ago :-)

    8. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Really? Other than built in zip recognition, I can't even think of a feature in 7 that isn't in XP. I suppose there's more eye candy, but I turn that shit off anyway

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    9. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by stewbacca · · Score: 0

      MS will come up with Win OS X once Apple goes to OS XI (using the past 20 years for reference).

    10. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by yuhong · · Score: 2

      FYI, just looked this up and assuming that Windows 8 releases next year and they decide to expand Extended Support to all editions of Windows, support for Windows 7 will end after the first Patch Tuesday in 2020.

    11. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      So out of all these new features you can't think of anything other than zip support? Then you are not going to be happy to hear that zip support was in XP too.

    12. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They finally turned Paint into something that pretends to be an image editing program. They re-did all of the card games and the minesweeper game. They re-did the calculator. About the only thing that didn't get a facelift is Notepad.

      The support for digital cameras was greatly improved. There is also an undocumented but built-in support, if your wireless card supports this, to clone your adapter so that you can bridge an internet connection onto a hotspot that you broadcast from the second adapter. They pretty much fixed the screwiness of connecting to a projector or secondary monitor.

      XP had built-in zip integration, by the way. They added that in SP3.

    13. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      No it wasn't. The computer I'm on now is XP, it doesn't have native zip support- I needed to install good old WinZip.

      As for your other features- I don't use any of them, or need any of them. The vast majority of users don't, other than the eye candy. So nope, I can't think of anything 7 or Vista do that XP doesn't.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    14. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

      I am running Win 7, with Classic Shell it's not so bad, but XP is still superior in some aspects.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    15. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it wasn't. The computer I'm on now is XP, it doesn't have native zip support- I needed to install good old WinZip.

      Yes it was; no you didn't.

    16. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      They could easily fix this if only they'd stop supporting their OS releases after 3-4 years like Apple does with OS X (or 6 months like Fedora).

    17. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 1

      Win7 is so much easier, so much more usable, so much powerful...

      Apparently grammar correction works better in XP. ;-)

       

      I can't imagine why anyone with the hardware to run Win7 (which isn't that much) would still WANT to run XP.

      I have three computers in my house that could easily run Win7. In fact I have a copy of Win7 that's been sitting unopened on my desk for almost a year that I was intending to install on one of them.That computer is running XP64(8 GB of RAM) but I can't get motivated enough to deal with all of the software installations that are going to go along with it. My wife's laptop and two of my company laptops have Win7, which I like more than XP. But not enough to deal with the headaches of actually upgrading to it.

    18. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yup, i'm already counting down the days for Windows7 to die.

    19. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down; he never installed Service Pack 3.

    20. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      The ability to rearrange the taskbar. Because OCD...makes me more efficient, yeah, that's it ;-)

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    21. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I do not think it will be that long.

      Shitty activeX intranet apps and the great recession forced corporate users to stick with it. Also Vista sucked and was already 2 years late which caused even more delays.

      This time around most activeX intranet apps will be rewritten in HTML 5 since IE 6 wont be around forever and businesses are upgrading again after Windows 7 settled in with service pack 1. I think maybe 5 years will be the new norm for upgrades as it does cost money in extra support and security to stick with obsolete systems. China will probably still be XP based in 2020 due to the cost of a new non pirated OS. They skew the statistics. In the US only 25% of people still use XP.

      It wont be as bad as it was for XP hopefully.

    22. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      i think they're going for a more evolutionary rather than revolutionary release cycle, there's no real reason to re-write your OS over 8 years just to add a couple of bells and whistles

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    23. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      heh, you might be impressed by needless bullshit, but i require my features to be actually useful; unless you actually think adding the ribbon to paint was worth the effort. the couple of good bits in vista and 7 could have been pretty easily implemented on XP, though i won't begrudge them a few clean-ups to make them easier... though i wouldn't really put vista in the "clean up" category.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    24. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does putting the ribbon in Paint have to do with anything? They actually added features to Paint, ribbon or no ribbon. It's just a menu. They finally made it so that something you create in Paint doesn't necessarily look like you used an 8-bit paint program from the 1980s.

    25. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by ajo_arctus · · Score: 1

      Are you using a stream-lined version of XP? That's one of the things you could disable in, e.g. XP lite. By default, XP has zip support. It calls them 'Compressed Folders'. I used to disable it and install WinZip/WinRar/7-zip, because the MS zip support was (and still is) very slow and a bit buggy.

      Windows 7 does quite a bit of stuff that XP doesn't, but the fundamentals are basically the same from an end-user perspective. Things like GPU acceleration for the desktop is good, because it frees up some CPU/memory bandwidth and moves it to the GPU. The networking is much improved, and so is the shell. There's plenty of stuff going on, you just don't see much of it, aside from the glass effect Windows and new task bar.

    26. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by gx5000 · · Score: 1

      I've lost count of the installations I've downgraded, legally and not so much. & isn't XP2 it's Vista II and M$ still hasn't learned from the Win8 Installation I've been toying with. It's not the final product granted, but it's not what I was hoping for. Until they go back to straight forward interfaces instead of the Fancy Tinker Toy for Adults, I'll pass and do Linux when my XP PC's can no longer function on the new hardware. There's also a illusion that there aren't drivers around for many new devices, look around, most new devices still have XPsp2-3 drivers from the chipset makers or the OEM if you look around and have the time.

      --
      End of Line.
    27. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      So, to "fix" the problem that isn't really a problem, they should axe long term product support and screw many of their customers?

      I mean it in the best possible way: sometimes applethink isn't the best thing since sliced bread.

    28. Re:Windows 7 is the new XP by yuhong · · Score: 1

      It existed built-in since WinMe as an optional component. XP has it installed by default.

  7. Three years before end of support by yuhong · · Score: 2

    Remember XP ends support in April 2014. Guess what XP's marketshare will be by them?

    1. Re:Three years before end of support by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      A friend of mine still runs windows 2000, and that only at my extreme nudging that he should drop 9X flavored kernels several years ago.

      Given how I dislike Microsoft's current move toward treating users like cattle (Really, how else can you explain the current incarnation of the control pannel?) I can't make myself push him to upgrade again.

      I'd push him to Linux, if Wine could support his "Really old graphic arts software" he runs.

      He is very much computing in a 90s timewarp, and doesnt want to leave it.

      (at least he is very mindful about what kinds of TCP/UDP connections are open when he is on the internet. He has gone so far in the past as to abandon software because it opens mystery ports.)

      I would really like to point him toward a power-user friendly 64bit microsoft OS, since windows is what he is familar with, but the closest thing I can find is XP x64, which is by no small stretch of the term "Not user friendly", especially when it comes to finding drivers that will work with it.

      I can understand why microsoft needs to release new OSes every 3 to 5 years--- They HAVE to make new sales to stay in business--- But, what I dont understand is why they moved away from 'Clean and efficient', and toward "So full of eyecandy it gives me a toothache in my eyeballs".

      Really, the drab, simplistic UI of the 2000 era was great. I can't be the only one who uses a computer to get shit done, rather than be "entertained" by having my desktop picture cycle every X minutes, or by some resource consuming desktop widget.

      (which is precisely why I personally have switched to Linux, and use a minimalist window manager.)

      I suspect a large part of the "I Dont like Vista and windows 7" users that this article is bagging on, dislike those two new options for many of the same reasons.

      Can't microsoft just add a boot.ini switch or something to turn off "Dumbshit mode" or something?

    2. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can make 7 look almost like 9x by hitting "Adjust for best performance" in Control Panel > System > Advanced system Settings > Performance. I don't know why you have a problem with "dumbshit mode" anyways; graphics hardware has improved, even on the lowest end machines, so it may as well be used for something rather than wasted.

      7 even has really good x64 driver support, AFAIK. If that's your criteria for a x64 system, 7 is your go-to WinOS.

    3. Re:Three years before end of support by hazem · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd push him to Linux, if Wine could support his "Really old graphic arts software" he runs.

      I used to dual boot between Windows XP and Linux because I preferred to use Linux but there are applications that require Windows. After a recent hard-drive crash, I re-evaluated my setup and tried out VirtualBox - and it's fantastic!

      Essentially you run it as a virtual machine on your host system (Linux) where you can then have Windows run in a box. I've been using that setup since January and I love it! I even managed to copy the partition of my work laptop and got it working as a virtual computer as well.

      The biggest shortcomings are that I cannot get my Creative Zen to work in the virtual computer. Also, support for writing to DVD/CDs is not very good. I haven't found a good workaround for the Zen (gnomad2 kind of works), and for the DVD stuff, k3b works well on the native Linux side.

      I also had success in getting the same image to work on my mom's computer running Vista. She hates vista and a lot of her old games don't work on it. She's thrilled to play her old favorite card game in the virtual computer I set up for her.

      VirtualBox is now owned by Oracle, but I think it's still open source. I didn't try VMWare because VirtualBox as served my needs pretty well. You might want to look into it.

    4. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's obvious you are trolling, but to address your point you would have to be blind to miss the classic mode setting in control panel. You can also change the theme to classic. You can make Win 7 look like 2000 if you want.

    5. Re:Three years before end of support by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      48.5 percent.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    6. Re:Three years before end of support by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      I've got a gtx280 and a high res (2048x1536) desktop.. there are times when I click on a non-focused window and start dragging that there're split second delays before the gui responds.. this is one example. there are many others. turning off aero fixes the problem completely.. tbh, I'm not really enamored of fully gpu accelerated guis.. the old block-fill accelerated GDI+ was and is MUCH faster and more responsive (and less heavy on the hw) ..

    7. Re:Three years before end of support by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      Ok, First, let me apologize for the violent tone of this reply--- This is something I feel very strongly about, because it directly impacts how well I can do my work, and could be solved fairly painlessly If redmond would be a little more considerate, I think.

      That said:

      (As a home user) I refuse to use an operating system that treats me like I dont know what an ACL is, or how to set up user accounts as more than just "User" or "administrator". (For starters.)

      Windows 2000 at least had reasonably transparent access to filesystem and registry ACLs, and didnt try to bilk me for "Premium!" just so I can make a limited user that can manage print jobs, and can see/delete what is in other user's home folders. (Think, parents wanting to see what is in their kids accounts, without being so stupid as to run as the administrator). XP started doing bullshit there with Home when they axed the local users and groups MMC snap-in, but otherwise it gets a "Passable" score.

      Further, (as both a corporate user and as a home user) I hate it that windows 7 forces the issue with the UI, and consider it deal-breaking.

      Yes. I realize that GPUs are much more powerful now. The same issue with "I want to get fucking shit done, not watch bouncing shit on my screen." applies. That is why you have XFCE and other minimalist window managers, even on very very modern linuxes with obscene hardware. Some people DONT LIKE THAT SHIT, and I AM ONE OF THEM.
      (Hell, I have seen linux WMs that are basically just an XTerm window, so I *KNOW* I am not alone here.)

      Now then-- For the "Rather than being wasted" argument...

      Did it ever occur to you that there are useful windows programs that make heavy use of GPU hardware that AREN'T GAMES? I am a CAD/CAM draftsman, and I have literally KILLED GPUs (as in, "melted solder WITH proper cooling" killed) under heavy use before. I *HATE* sharing resources *THAT I NEED* with animated icons, Transparency effects and stupid desktop widgets. (*ESPECIALLY ones I cannot fully disable, because "that would make it look tacky" or similar crap that I would expect from Cupertino, and not Redmond. Stevie Wonder and his magic liver, along with his white plastic worshiping hipsters can take a long walk off a short pier. I hate the influence they have had over computing environments, and no-- they did not invent the GUI, XEROX PARC did, and theirs wasn't bloated.)

      When you are rendering a complex industrial assemblage (Think half of a whole jumbo jet, including fasteners--In NURBS solids--) for engineering purposes, you need all you can get. Being able to actually, you know-- TURN OFF the bloated GUI would be "Thoughtful", don't you think?

      Acting like the GPU is "being wasted" while in normal desktop space kinda precludes that notion, doesn't it? I am not asking that everyone be stuck in 1990s 2D blitting mode because of my preferences--- I am just asking for *THE OPTION* to turn it off, and I mean REALLY turn it off. (My case should not be considered "edge" either-- There are any number of other disciplines besides engineering that would benefit greatly by not having vital resources considered "wasted" unless the GUI is gobbling them down-- Like crypto-analysis, protein folding simulations, and anything that uses the GPU for massively parallel processing.)

      I could tolerate XP, because I could turn on classic interface, turn off all the BS and be done. I cant do that with Win7. Microsoft has forced the issue with "You will go where we *say* today!" and abandoned "Where do you WANT to go today?" What I *NEED* is an x64 windows box, WITHOUT the window dressing. That is *NOT* what microsoft is offering. XP x64 DOES offer that, but it has serious lack of driver support. I have it on one of my systems at home that is dedicated to off the clock engineering time, and it works adequately. Sadly I can't have that at work, because it was never released in such a capacity from Microsoft.

      That is why I use Linux for my home desktop, and at work, I am counting the days un

    8. Re:Three years before end of support by schnikies79 · · Score: 1

      If you are properly firewalled, have to up-to-date antivirus and have a secure browser, what is the big deal? I have a PC still running W2K for a couple legacy things that won't work on XP or beyond. It's not and never has been compromised.

      --
      Gone!
    9. Re:Three years before end of support by zonky · · Score: 1

      All the GDI bugs that were never fixed?

    10. Re:Three years before end of support by hedwards · · Score: 1

      VirtualBox and Crossover are awesome, but unfortunately, they're still not suitable for certain applications like gaming.

    11. Re:Three years before end of support by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Oh, definitely!
      I've just started doing the same thing, and found the snapshot function of VirtualBox to be invaluable - it means you can take a snapshot of your "working" system, install crap, then power it off and revert those changes. Simple!

    12. Re:Three years before end of support by snickers · · Score: 1

      In Windows 7 change the icons in the control panel to either small icons or large icons. That will get rid of the extremely annoying grouping and show all the individual icons (like classic mode). This was my biggest issue with Win 7. It use to take me forever to find what I wanted in the control panel. I had to try and guess where MS had put the settings I need to change.

    13. Re:Three years before end of support by hazem · · Score: 1

      Indeed... that's true for modern games. But I suspect that if you're looking at 5 year old games, designed to work on 5 year old hardware, that they'd run decently on modern hardware, even if through a virtualization layer.

      It would be interesting to see some benchmarks on it.

      Of course, Linux + virtualization is not the best answer for all problems, but it's a good solution for my problems.

    14. Re:Three years before end of support by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      disable the uxsms service and win7 falls back to GDI+ rendering.. they readded this after people bitched about not having it in vista (resulting in VERY slow blitting if aero was turned off).

    15. Re:Three years before end of support by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      sound like you use the wares of one of the CADD vendors that dumped real OS in favour of windows only.....maybe you should switch to something that doesn't run on billy bloatware

    16. Re:Three years before end of support by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      You can switch to Basic mode which disabled transpariences and is what you are talking about and of course classic which launches the Windows2000 explorer.

      Yes it is eye candy but aero in Windows 7 has some nice features like putting Windows apps side by side dragging them far to the left or right, and if you move the cursor over the taskbar Windows will show a preview and a clear window where each app would go when you unminimize it. Not ground shattering but I miss them in Windows XP as I get used to it with 7. These are nice features when you have 12 apps open at once.

      I wouldn't pay to upgrade but I certainly wouldn't mind it if I bought a new computer that came with it.

    17. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: VirtualBox has a closed-source version, and a "community" open source edition. IIRC the OSE is missing some advanced functions, but it has served me very well.

    18. Re:Three years before end of support by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Serious question: How are you going to exploit those over the Internet? A trojan, yes, but if you're already running the binaries, it doesn't matter any more.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    19. Re:Three years before end of support by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Depends on the game. I play a lot of games from GOG in WINE on OS X, although I think the latest one was from about 2005. Amusingly, on OS X 10.7, you can play the Windows version of Diablo II, but not the Mac version, since Blizzard never released an x86 version and 10.7 drops the PowerPC emulator.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember XP ends support in April 2014.

      Remember XP does not provide support; support is provided for XP.

    21. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe "your friend" should switch do a different operating system if he is so unhappy with windows? Oh right, all modern linuxes have goofy hardware support issues as well.

      "Your friend" just sounds like a pedantic dumbass. He is welcome to the old crappy computers from a decade ago. The rest of us will enjoy our faster and cheaper machines.

    22. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least 1. I am not upgrading just to be a dick

    23. Re:Three years before end of support by said213 · · Score: 0

      "I want to get fucking shit done, not watch bouncing shit on my screen."

      I think you just want to complain. People who "want to get fucking shit done" don't type vapid rants on websites... and people with highly evolved opinions of the UI in any OS are typically resourceful enough to either identify alternatives or create them.

      There is nothing which you have pointed out as problematic which does not currently have numerous solutions available to address*.

      (*Citation: Any complaint(s) you have about windows XP entered into a google search)

      --
      help me fix this "Terrible" karma, please!
    24. Re:Three years before end of support by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Uhm? The complaint was not about XP.

      It was about win7, and the lack of GDI+ only fallback rendering. As another poster pointed out, you can disable uxsms, and force win7 to use GDI+, but my own research on that topic points out that it is not accelerated, and uses software only rendering when you do that.

    25. Re:Three years before end of support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how I dislike Microsoft's current move toward treating users like cattle (Really, how else can you explain the current incarnation of the control pannel?)

      I would say the current Control Panel is designed to treat users like idiots, which is correct because on the whole they are,

  8. Well duh by arielCo · · Score: 1

    Computers age, and brand computers (i.e. everything that wasn't hand-assembled by a small shop or a user) stopped coming with XP preinstalled since ___?

    --
    This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    1. Re:Well duh by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      since last year, when I bought a netbook that came with xp installed.

      its not dead yet! good for netbooks, still, and for hardware that won't ever be supported by win7.

      I have a friend who is building new hardware to replace old hardware and the ONLY reason he has to throw out the old (not that its not working; it is!) is that there are no drivers for win7 for that usb device and its 'easier' to design a new pcboard and put a chip there than to port or find old drivers to win7.

      amazing. but in a bad way, of course.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2001. I noticed just last week that Toys R US is still selling netbooks with XP on them.

      To be fair, there were new models of computers with XP on them being released by major manufactures at least as late as 2009.

  9. Vista used more than Mac, wOw! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't realize Vista has a bigger market share than Mac. For all the hype Jobs & Co. get for Mac it still isn't anything. Linux is doing better considering there is no marketing for Linux and there aren't any "cool" Linux devices, except servers, but who cares about servers when you can have a Mac Book.

    1. Re:Vista used more than Mac, wOw! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't realize Vista has a bigger market share than Mac. For all the hype Jobs & Co. get for Mac it still isn't anything. Linux is doing better considering there is no marketing for Linux and there aren't any "cool" Linux devices, except servers, but who cares about servers when you can have a Mac Book.

      Yeah, I'm going to take my server with me when I need to go somewhere. I'll take it to a client site, tell them to wait half an hour while I set everything up and they will all be like "wow, your OS needs you to take the box, monitor and everything with you, please tell me what you are running cause I, like, so want to use it!" And I will be like "it runs teh leenux!!!" And they will be like "wow, that is so *cool*, so if I run teh leenux I have to take a server box with me everywhere I go to coz I don't need to do word processing or read email, I just need to stare at a terminal with mysqld running in the background". And I will be like "yeah! and you cant play games or get sound working properly". Seriously - are you retarded? Since when do average users need to run a server OS?

      Yeah yeah, 2011 is the year of Linux on the desktop and all that. And what in the article implied Linux was doing better than Mac for an average home users desktop / notebook? You fanbois are incredible, article says "Windows XP market share finally falls below 50%" and you read that simple sentence as "OMGZ Linux now dominates the desktop!".

    2. Re:Vista used more than Mac, wOw! by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Who needs $1500 Macs when you have users willing to rebuy marginally improved $500 phones or tablet year after year? Or rebuy them after dropping them in the street, off the sailboat, or leaving them in a taxi?

      Supporting stats March qtr. iPad shipments: 4.69 million, March qtr. iPhone shipments: 18.65 million, March qtr. Mac shipments: 3.76 million

      There used to be Apple II vs Mac camp at Apple. Apple II lost out. It's obvious what the excitement and moneymaker at Apple is now.

    3. Re:Vista used more than Mac, wOw! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Apple is no longer a computer company. They're a phone marketing company that has a small computer branch that is an ever-shrinking chunk of their revenue (47% of Apple's revenue - and 52% of their profit - comes from sales of just iPhones).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  10. What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First of all I have to say that I think its commendable for a company to support a product for so long. Its also one of the reasons why there will always be a place for Windows servers (I wouldn't want them for Internet usage, but IMO they make very good office servers); you can be sure up front when you may have to replace said server with another OS.

    There is however one issue here... Sure; Windows 7 is bound to get a larger market share; but did the researchers also keep in mind that with Windows 7 professional and up you can easily run a native Windows XP environment within Windows 7 ? I'm referring to the Windows XP mode which you can download here.

    Its build on Microsoft Virtual PC (which is freely available) yet when you're running Win7 Professional or higher you can also download a Windows XP ISO (this is basically what it is) which is then used to quickly setup a full Windows XP environment. It gets even better: you can "propagate" applications from inside the virtual PC so that you can easily start these from the regular Win7 start menu as if they were regular Win7 applications (but because its running in a full virtual XP environment the application itself will also use the native XP look and feel).

    To be honest I'm quite impressed and happy with this. I even use it to "put aside" applications which I want to try or use without having it "polluting" my main Win7 environment. And when I'm done with it I simply revert my virtual PC back to the original snapshot and all is clean again (of course I will need to re-install certain updates).

    So... When they did this research I wonder if they kept this into mind as well? Just because someone is running Windows 7 doesn't necessarily mean he or she gave up on XP entirely.

    btw... What I also really like is that MS' Virtual PC has no issues with installing BSD or Linux either. Sometimes MS can get things right IMO, not often but it does happen every now and then.

    1. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Sure; Windows 7 is bound to get a larger market share; but did the researchers also keep in mind that with Windows 7 professional and up you can easily run a native Windows XP environment within Windows 7 ?

      That is... assuming the user has a CPU with the hardware accelerated virtualization needed to run Virtual PC.

    2. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd be surprised, doesn't take that much at all it seems.

      From the website the previous poster mentioned:

      • 1 GHz 32-bit / 64-bit processor required
      • 2GB memory or higher recommended
      • Recommended 15 GB hard disk space per virtual Windows environment

      With todays specs that's not too shabby.

    3. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      No. It takes hardware accelerated virtualization. VirtualPC refuses to run without it. Even in the current lineup, Intel still offers several budget processors with it disabled.

    4. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      That is the minimum though, running XP like that over 7 will be like running XP on a 64 MB system with a 600 Mhz CPU or worse. Barely usable for more than basic testing.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    5. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do the same thing in the Home version of Win7 if you have an XP installation cd. It's slow though.

    6. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Pop69 · · Score: 1

      It's more than a year since that was a requirement.

      Have you never been to windows update to get the patch ?

    7. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Not any more! After selecting an Operating system and language you will have the option of downloading "Windows XP Mode Update: Enables Windows XP Mode for PCs without Hardware Assisted Virtualization Technology"

    8. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      Good to know. I tried it a long time back for reasons I don't recall, and gave up on it after a several GB, several hour download finished, only for the installer to tell me my processor didn't support it.

    9. Re:What about Win7's "XP mode" ? by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      i havent had experience with the 1 GHz bit, but back in the beta, i ran win 7 on a sempron 3000+ (good old socket 754, so single channel ddr-400), which is 1800 MHz with a mere pittance in terms of L2 cache, and a whopping 1 GB of ram. It was pretty decent, and it stayed out of swap well enough as long as i didnt get my multi-task on like i was used to on bigger systems. The only real memory i have of the system really bogging down involved me simultaniously web-browsing multiple tabs, streaming music and having two software installations going in the background.

      Honestly, from my experience win7 can be pretty damn usable on old hardware, just as long as you dont expect any miracles.

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
  11. So what? by walterbyrd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I never get any support from MS anyway. I used win2k for years after MS dropped support.

    1. Re:So what? by yuhong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Support include security updates, which are important.

    2. Re:So what? by petman · · Score: 1

      How important? How many security exploits that affected Windows 2000 were discovered after support was dropped?

    3. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you need is one.

    4. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me fix that for you:

      "How many security exploits that affected Windows 2000 were reported after support was dropped?"

    5. Re:So what? by petman · · Score: 1

      Really, I'm finding that you westerners are really paranoid about security holes and what-not. Here in the third world we have multitudes of computers running unpatched (often pirated) versions of windows, yet somehow our civilisation is still progressing, there's no imminent danger of us having an information technology meltdown just yet.

    6. Re:So what? by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Given the similar code base of Windows XP and Windows 2000, and the fact that MANY exploits are cross-version, it's probably safe to say a lot of the currently reported WindowsXP exploits affect Windows 2000. Extended support for Windows 2000 was retired 7/13/2010, which was more than 10 years after release (2/17/2000). G

    7. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't most exploits IE-based? So who cares?

    8. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you're the only guy running it. I bet Win 3.11 is pretty safe on the 'net right now. OS/2, BeOS, and NeXT may fall into that category as well.

    9. Re:So what? by acoustix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really, I'm finding that you westerners are really paranoid about security holes and what-not. Here in the third world we have multitudes of computers running unpatched (often pirated) versions of windows, yet somehow our civilisation is still progressing, there's no imminent danger of us having an information technology meltdown just yet.

      What do you think drives the botnets around the world?

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    10. Re:So what? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      depends how stupid the user is and how he uses it, no?

    11. Re:So what? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If you're still using Windows 2000, you better make sure port 1755 is blocked, because apparently it is actively being attacked, even today.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of XP zombies out there.

    13. Re:So what? by yuhong · · Score: 1

      That security update was already rereleased, plus it only affects system with Windows Media Services installed.

    14. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Support include security updates, which are important.

      Tell that to the Comdial box living upstairs in our office, still running DOS 6.2.2, controlling and serving out our voicemail. I just added a 16 bit ISA serial port card to take the place of the failed onboard connection. We should be good for another decade at least.

    15. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if they actually update security.

    16. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where Microsoft and security is concerned, the subject says it all.

    17. Re:So what? by quarterbuck · · Score: 1

      Unfortunate but true restatement.
      Really, I'm finding that you westerners are really paranoid about diseases and what-not. Here in the third world we have multitudes of people running un-vaccinated versions of bodies, yet somehow our civilisation is still progressing, there's no imminent danger of us having an population meltdown just yet.

      --
      http://slashdot.org/submission/1062723/Cheap-mobile-data-plan?art_pos=2
    18. Re:So what? by twocows · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. A dedicated intruder will find a way to access the system of even an intelligent user. It's just that intelligence thwarts about 99.9% of typical drive-by attacks.

      Security updates are always important. I expect to see community updates ala Win98 after support ends (some community members released two service packs after 98 reached end of support, one of which only came out recently).

    19. Re:So what? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      depends how stupid the user is and how he uses it

      Like, being stupid enough to use Visio? Have a Bluetooth device? Work with Excel? Have .NET installed? Use Silverlight to watch Netflix? Ever allow their desktops to display text for any reason? Run an app that uses DNS?

      Yeah. You'd have to be a complete moron to want to do any of those extreme, unusual, inherently risky things.

      no?

      No.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    20. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On Windows, not so much.

  12. An XP-era PC can still run homework and Facebook by tepples · · Score: 1

    The problem here is that computers became "good enough" for homework and Facebook a long time ago, and even a 2 GHz P4 is fast enough for anything that's not a recent 3D game. This realization, along with the introduction of Intel's power-sipping Atom CPU whose performance is in the same ballpark as an old P4 clock for clock, led to the netbook fad and to the continued use of paid-for PCs.

  13. Other? by mathfeel · · Score: 1

    Is this for desktop market? Then what's that 5.77% non Windows/OSX/Linux. BSD?

    --
    The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
    1. Re:Other? by artor3 · · Score: 1

      It includes mobile systems. The other is iPhones/Pads/Pods and Androids.

    2. Re:Other? by petman · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? TFA does not say. If it include mobile systems, why aren't Windows Mobile/Windows Phone included in the Windows category?

      On the whole, it's a badly written article. It does not even say where the number come from.

    3. Re:Other? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I have a good idea where those numbers come from, but it's a place I do not want to go. Most likely it's dark and smelly.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Other? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      DOS - good old DOS!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  14. Installed base by michaelmalak · · Score: 1

    Given that XP is no longer sold, it has 0% of the market share. I think they meant to say "installed base".

    1. Re:Installed base by stinkyj · · Score: 1

      I'd say there numbers were a stretch at best. Market Share means what exactly? From what I can tell they are basing their figures on licenses sold. Well at my workplace 10K+ desktops/laptops we're still on good old XP, and not moving anytime soon. I also was at the Doctor's office today, and they're still on XP. I work in R&D, but when I worked in IT at a different shop, we had to buy the newer version of windows licenses(Win2k I believe), but we still installed NT4 for a long time. So I'd say plenty of folks are still using and installing XP. Eventually some new HW will come out and won't be supported and they'll move crawling and screaming.

    2. Re:Installed base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that XP is no longer sold, it has 0% of the market share. I think they meant to say "installed base".

      Depends what you mean by market share. If you mean market share of new PCs, then XP still has significant market share - many corporate users are still on XP.

      New computers get wiped and loaded (legally) with the standard corporate desktop image.

      In fact, some OEMs (like Dell) will load your standard corporate image for you.

    3. Re:Installed base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying that the owners of a somewhat obsolete OS aren't part of the market for a new OS? My wife, head of market research at a very very large company (in the top 100 of the Fortune 500), had a good laugh at this.

    4. Re:Installed base by vlm · · Score: 1

      Given that XP is no longer sold, it has 0% of the market share. I think they meant to say "installed base".

      Maybe they're talking about torrent distribution rather than retail sales at best buy? XP is still sorta popular in that its the simplest solution to many problems.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  15. Sorry my fault by G00F · · Score: 1

    I re-installed windows on my gaming rig and tried out windows 7, I'll switch back, please don't ban me from the net!

    Serious though, I just installed 7 on my gaming rig(was XP) a few days and even earlier today as I surfed the net to download 64bit drivers/apps was realizing this would show up on peoples pages (and the fact I'm using FF 5.x rather than 3.x)

    --
    The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
  16. Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Omega+Hacker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We have new hardware to install in my church's office. The old computers run XP, purchased as charity licenses. The new hardware came with Vista (bleck!), and I was hoping we could install Windows 7 instead. However, it seems that Microsoft decided to do away with charity licenses. That means that we'd be stuck spending over $400 for a 3-pack of licenses for machines that totaled $750 in hardware. That's not even remotely going to happen. As a result, we're going to be shoe-horning XP back onto the *new* machines, and I'll be installing an Ubuntu dual-boot on them to see if there's any way to get the staff to consider moving to it. Go-go-gadget greed, Microsoft!

    --
    GStreamer - The only way to stream!
    1. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by couchslug · · Score: 2

      If it won't "shoehorn". just run XP in a (free) Virtualbox VM with a Ubuntu host.

      Take a Snapshot after a clean install, and you can promptly revert if something Bad happens.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by iprefermuffins · · Score: 3, Insightful

      $400? It looks like a 3-pack of upgrade licenses is $140 at Amazon. Or is that not an option for some reason?

    3. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Serious question. Where did you come up with $400? Were you looking for Win7 Pro for businesses? Does your charity really use a domain controller? Otherwise, a 3pack of Win7 Home is $125 Walmart

      Also, please elaborate. What has Microsoft removed with respect to charity licenses? A quick google search seems to bring up that Microsoft infact does still have charity licensing. Has the price increased? Number of options decreased? Eligibility?

    4. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you consider Mac as an option?

      Have you seen the costs of Macs? For a Church trying to save money using PCs is better because it's easier to change out hardware if something goes faulty. Macs are closed up and parts can be expensive to replace.

      Besides PCs cost far less and have high specs than even the 'low cost' Mac Mini. Apple is worse than Microsoft on price gouging.

    5. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Install Mac OS on 3 computers where the hardware totaled $750? I'm pretty sure there's something in the Mac OS terms that says you are not allowed to install it on any hardware that costs under $1000 per machine. There's definitely a clause in section 2 there that says you're only allowed to install it on Apple-branded hardware.

      So which is it, are you suggesting he break the terms of the license, or increase the budget by 4 times?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    6. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      ...Because he clearly is on a budget. You can't buy more than one Mac for $750. Macs are not for those on a budget, while if you are looking for a fairly high-end system Macs aren't that bad of a deal, but as for a budget system, Macs aren't an option.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    7. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by mswhippingboy · · Score: 1

      That means that we'd be stuck spending over $400 for a 3-pack of licenses for machines that totaled $750 in hardware. That's not even remotely going to happen

      Why don't you consider Mac as an option?

      Maybe because if $400 is out of his budget on $750 in hardware, $3600 for 3 MBPs might be a little out of budget as well. Of course, when it comes to Apple, who cares how much it costs right?

      --
      Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
    8. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Was accidentally cut off at end of previous comment.

      Meant to say Windows 7 was one of the most successful but dishonest marketing campaigns known to man. XP is a far better OS. The garbage that is Windows 7 will lead many another person to Linux, or more likely, Apple.

    9. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just ask some college students you know to get you copies of windows 7 using the Ultimate Steal Program. Legal, professional, RETAIL copies, for only $30 each. Retail copies can be put on any computer, and they can be resold.

    10. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Even. More. Expensive.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    11. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to assume that "Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade Family Pack (3-User)" that permits you to "Install Windows 7 Home Premium on up to three PCs in your household" is intended to be installed in a house for a single family.

      It may or may not be the case that the license requires it to be used that way, too.

      They may also need to:

        - Run many Windows XP productivity programs in Windows XP Mode.
        - Connect to company networks easily and more securely with Domain Join.
        - Work in the language of your choice and switch between any of 35 languages. (one of which may or may not be latin).

    12. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Kalendraf · · Score: 1

      If the hardware came with Vista (as opposed to being upgraded to it from something else), consider trying Vista first before removing it. I know a lot of people love to hate Vista, but personally I've found it to be extremely reliable - far more reliable than WinXP ever was. I've had zero crashes or other problems with Vista in over 2 years of using it on two PCs which are up 24/7 and see some rather heavy use at times. From reading lots of Vista horror stories, I think my main keys to success were to start with Vista rather than trying to upgrade to it, and to build PCs with enough horsepower to handle it. Depending on the hardware, it's possible that your church's machines might run just fine with Vista.

    13. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      find college students in your church and get them all to buy 30 dollar student licenses from ultimatesteal.com

      for 400 you'd be able to buy 13 licenses

    14. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Pi+Is+A+Rational · · Score: 0

      where is this $1000 business?

    15. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have new hardware to install in my church's office. The old computers run XP, purchased as charity licenses. The new hardware came with Vista (bleck!), and I was hoping we could install Windows 7 instead. However, it seems that Microsoft decided to do away with charity licenses. That means that we'd be stuck spending over $400 for a 3-pack of licenses for machines that totaled $750 in hardware. That's not even remotely going to happen. As a result, we're going to be shoe-horning XP back onto the *new* machines, and I'll be installing an Ubuntu dual-boot on them to see if there's any way to get the staff to consider moving to it. Go-go-gadget greed, Microsoft!

      Go to techsoup.com and register as a non profit with them. Microsoft donations for Win 7 are $12 per upgrade each from any prior version of windows. 2008 Server r2 in various incarnations is around $100 bucks.

    16. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by danomac · · Score: 1

      However, it seems that Microsoft decided to do away with charity licenses.

      The didn't do away with charity licenses. They went through a review process and our charity had to register (re-register?) with Microsoft and use a charity reseller that's on their "approved" charity reseller list.

      It was actually my reseller that warned me of this, not Microsoft. We had to submit proof we were a charity. I don't recall having to do that prior.

    17. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then Steve Job's decisions (or Ubuntu's or Canonical's or whoever else) will drive them right back to Windows.

      Well, actually, Steve's decisions will probably drive them back to Windows right in the store, but some of the others they might try first, then tear their hair out in frustration before going back to Windows.

      But honestly, you hate Windows 7 that badly? Are you sure you're using the same Windows 7 as the rest of the world?

    18. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure if troll or just really really stupid...

    19. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh, you got a hand out and now the makers of a product (which you obviously enjoy and want) want to make money from it and you call that greed. I say that someone who gets a free service for a lengthy period of time and cries wolf when the dinner table gets empty must evaluate their own GREED. $133 is inexpensive and petty to complain about for something that is used so often. If your hardware was less expensive then buy some new cheap machinery which comes with the software. Buy cheap and you get what you pay for.

    20. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Tech Soup. They definitely have win7 licenses available. I know because running a win7 pro we got from them. We got one 32-bit and one 64-bit disk, volume licensing (or whatever it's called now).

    21. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by TitusC3v5 · · Score: 1

      You should have just run the Vista install that came with the machine. Vista gets much more flack than it deserves, a large portion of it from people trying to run it on excessively old hardware. It runs just fine on every system I've installed it on that is less than 5-6 years old.

      --
      And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
    22. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd argue community brainwashing centers ...er churches, aren't particularly charitable most of the time.

    23. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, it seems that Microsoft decided to do away with charity licenses

      Goodness me! Have you tried praying about it?

    24. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 7 Upgrade for Nonprofits and Libraries
      http://home.techsoup.org/pages/windows7.aspx

    25. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by ThatCanadianGuy · · Score: 1

      Last year I was in the same position. We have some very stuck in the Windows rut people. So upgrading to a Mac or Linux build OS were out of the question. You have to keep applying but they do still offer a charity copy of windows 7. You just need to be persistent. Or go through a local MS authorized dealer. Not the big box store, but someone who works on servers for charities or businesses. That's how I was able to acquire the 5 licenses I needed.

    26. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for a non profit as well and we are able to get charity licenses. They are slightly more expensive now than they used to be.

      Still a lot better that RRP though

    27. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      unless apple offers a charity pricing scheme, it'd be even more expensive than reverting from vista to xp.

    28. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Church complaining about greed? How about you start paying taxes, you freeloaders.

    29. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

      I upgraded my IBM T60 (1.8GHz C2D, 2GB RAM) from XP to Vista and ran it that way for a year. It was a horrible experience. Yes, it worked, but it was sluggish and seemed to take joy in making my life miserable. It felt like running NT 3.51 on the hardware of the day - yes, it worked, but you could tell it was straining hard to provide an acceptable UI.

      After a year, I upgraded the same machine to Win7. Although I still prefer the simple UI of Win2000 (or the Classic mode of XP), win7 was superior to Vista in every way in day-to-day usage. The machine felt more responsive, and after six months I actually went out and bought Win7 licenses for my 3 home XP machines to upgrade them.

      Vista was a train wreck. The sooner that the pieces are swept into a pile and buried, the better.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    30. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      c'mon. Don't try to put any sense into a bs sensationalist anti-MS post!

      And they certainly still do have a program for Charities. As far as I know the price is about the same as it was 5 years ago.

      http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/licensing-options/for-industries.aspx#tab=4

    31. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Apple doesn't litigate against folks who install OS X on non-Apple hardware, unless you're trying to make a business out of it and sell the resulting machines:

      http://www.hackintosh.com/

      http://www.osx86project.org/

      http://lifehacker.com/321913/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800

    32. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been using Windows 7 for three months now, and being as fair and objective as I can possibly be, I can't name a single improvement over XP.

      Can you?

    33. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Add another gig of RAM (don't think that T60 board will support 4?) and you'll get another nice speed boost. I upgraded my X200 from 2GB to 8GB and my girlfriend's R61 to 4GB, and the difference is amazing - Windows 7's RAM-precaching ("Superfetch") actually works quite well, and makes everything extremely snappy. Swapping is also strongly reduced - program launches are much faster, because the program is only read from disk into memory, instead of parts of the active RAM having to be written to disk to make room for the newly launched program.

      Yes, Win7 is a memory hog, but get enough RAM and it flies (faster than XP with the same amount of RAM, at least on my X200)... not to mention being much more stable and having better driver support than WinXP x64.

    34. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      Okay, i have seen church-PCs mentioned before on slashdot, and as a devout atheist european, i have to ask, what do you guys use those things for? Is church book-keeping so involved that the minister cant handle it with simple dead-tree anymore? Does the church provide a free to use internet service for its members while they are in? Are they part of a distributed computing effort to analyze scans of the shroud of turin?

      Over here most churches are basically houses of prayer as far as i know

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    35. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by CycleMan · · Score: 1

      Church bookkeeping is part of it; this aids in providing receipts for charitable donations and compliance with Internal Revenue Service (tax authority) guidelines. Also they can track the songs used in worship to feed proper royalty distribution under CCLI (Christian Copyright Licensing International). [Note: unlike **AA organizations, CCLI license fees are based primarily on the size of the congregation rather than the number of songs sung, rehearsed, etc., so a church is not penalized financially for deciding to sing additional songs. The $675,000 initially awarded in RIAA v. Tenenbaum for sharing 31 songs would pay for the annual licenses of over 300 "mega-churches" with tens of thousands of members each.]

      The church bulletins may be laid out in desktop publishing software, and the sermons are researched, written, and type-set as well as often posted online in pdf, html, and/or various audio formats for those who were unable to make it to church that week or who are otherwise interested in the sermons being preached there for their own learning and inspiration. Some churches extensively use PowerPoint or other A/V during services. In addition, there are a plethora of resources available electronically to enhance study of the Bible, from Greek and Hebrew source documents and commentaries to libraries of the writings of highly-regarded Christian writers and preachers of the past. There might be other uses of computers in American churches -- I hope this non-exhaustive list helps.

    36. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that list, interesting read, and mostly pretty sane, although i find the whole song licensing stuff a bit bizare. I always figured religious songs were mostly bible stuff, and not newly written commercially licensed works. Somehow it seems a bit unethical to ask money for that kind of thing, but there you go, welcome to humanity.

      Still, bookkeeping / online research and powerpoint, seems like something a single laptop (or two desktops, one in the church for the powerpoint stuff) should be able to handle.

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    37. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try connecting a projector or 2nd display, or connect a digital camera that shows up as a digital camera, not a generic USB storage device.

    38. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by symes · · Score: 1

      erm... RAM? That is kind of a big one

    39. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by twocows · · Score: 1

      Vista works fine post-SP1 and works pretty much the same as 7 post-SP2. The platform update even backports a lot of Win7 functionality.

    40. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is this "rest of the world" to whom you refer? Bloggers given free laptops or other inducements paying them off to write something positive about Windows 7?

      Try visiting the message boards where people are trying to figure out this crappy operating system. It is widely acknowledged Win 7 sucks.

      And don't get me started on Office 2010 which is even worse. But that's not on topic for this Slashdot posting.

      Oh well, maybe Win 7 will improve after a service pack or two. XP did. But right now, Win 7 is a mess. Don't upgrade to it if yiu have any sense at all

    41. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Apple doesn't litigate against folks who install OS X on non-Apple hardware, unless you're trying to make a business out of it and sell the resulting machines

      Is that an argument to break the terms of the license? Why buy the software at all? Why not pirate Windows 7 instead if you're just going to break the license anyway?

      One of the OP's issues was that he did not want to break the license, and I assume that applies to Apple licenses as well. If he didn't care about what the license said, then he wouldn't be worried about how much 3 licenses cost.

      For me personally, I'm more than happy to abide by Apple's terms. If Apple wants to put a clause in their license which says that I am not allowed to run the software on non-Apple hardware, then I'll go ahead and agree to those terms and not run their software. I'm not going to buy their hardware, so if they don't want me to run their OS on my hardware, then I won't. Another reason why my next computer will be a Win7 machine as well, once I finally move on from XP.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    42. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by unencode200x · · Score: 1
      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
    43. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Meh, to each their own. I run OS X on my Macbook Air and my Mac Mini at the office, but also moved my Dell XPS box over to OS X.

      The only OS you're not going to have licensing issues with is Linux. If you want something stupid-proof, get custom-built Chromium and have the user do everything web-based.

    44. Re:Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I don't need a stupid-proof computer (my XP box doesn't even have a virus scanner), but I also don't necessarily want to break license terms. I've pirated enough OSs for my time. Linux would be a possibility if I could run everything I want to run on it, but as it is a Linux machine for me is a hobby machine, not a primary machine. Since I prefer to spec and build my own systems, that leaves Windows as my only option.

      I would consider OSX a possibility, but if Apple is going to go out of their way to tell me I can't run their software on a system of my choice, then I'll oblige them. It's not like their software is so over-and-above everything else that I need to do whatever I can to run it. It's not all that, and like Linux it still can't run a lot of programs I use.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  17. Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple/NeXT took BSD and turned it into a polished Unix powerhouse embraced by both consumers and developers by using it as what it always was meant to be, at tool, not a religion.

    Google took the Linux kernel and showed what grown ups can do with an open source operating system by absolutely dominating the cellphone OS market.

    Meanwhile, Linux continues the oh so productive KDE vs Gnome wars over system settings in 2011.

    High five Linux desktop developers!

    All Hail Choice!

    1. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by rhook · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apple has been found to give its users a religious experience. I'm sure this has nothing to do with them being a cult.

      http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-19/tech/apple.religion_1_apple-store-apple-employees-brains

      "The neuroscientists ran a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) test on an Apple fanatic and discovered that images of the technology company's gadgets lit up the same parts of the brain as images of a deity do for religious people, the report says.

      The first episode of the documentary shows Apple employees "whipped up into some sort of crazy, evangelical frenzy" at the recent opening of an Apple store in London."

    2. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how you resort to ad hominems rather than refute the GP's excellent points. Desktop Linux: 1% and holding!

    3. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Duradin · · Score: 1

      They were going to do one on linux zealots but they thought all their MRI machines were faulty, all that came back was beard with bits of the last month's meals and toenail clippings.

    4. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. osx really isn't a powerhouse like you say. it suffers from severe execution bloat. its gfx pipeline is terrible.
      2. ah yes google.. the 'adults' who said 'if you're doing something you don't want anyone to see, maybe you shouldn't be doing it'? please.. if anything, there are precious few adults in society period, and what most of society considers adult really isn't adult at all.. just a craftier adolescent with more power.
      3. I agree, the kde/gnome shit is tiring.

      4. choice sure beats tyranny.

    5. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Y'know, I don't see the "KDE vs Gnome" problem: Applications using GTK work perfectly well on KDE, and Qt ones work fine on Gnome. Sure, you've got alternative desktop environments... but that's a *good* thing. It means we can have multiple different approaches, no one-size-fits-all crap.
      For example, KDE's great when you've got the graphical muscle to handle it(like Aero), but I wouldn't run it on an old machine. Conversely, LXDE absolutely flies on my laptop, but it's a bit minimalist for my main desktop.
      Oh, and I run a mixed system with both Qt and GTK apps, so...

    6. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Desktop Linux: 1% and holding!

      Margin of error of measurement: ±1%

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by bonch · · Score: 1, Funny

      Google took the Linux kernel and showed what grown ups can do with an open source operating system by absolutely dominating the cellphone OS market.

      iOS is the #1 mobile operating system, not Android (and by a large margin). Android only comes out ahead when you compare all Android smartphones to the single iPhone, but if you compare phone to phone, Apple is also now the #1 phone vendor as well as the highest grossing.

    8. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by bonch · · Score: 1

      Okay, let's run brain scans on Linux zealots and see who's more religious about their technology. Calling Apple a "cult" is really fucking stupid (as is the fact that you got modded up, using the Underrated modifier, of course, which has been seeing huge abuse lately). They scanned one guy's brain and found that the parts of the brain used for being devoted to something lit up. So?

    9. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like what an Apple shill would say. You Mactards will go to any length to defend your beloved Apple, even bending the truth or outright lying.

    10. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Ironhandx · · Score: 2

      Comparing all recently sold android devices to all recently sold IOS devices the android devices come out on top by a wide margin. IOS isn't even dominating severely on a phone by phone basis and there is only one single source of it.

      Take me for example, I've had a LOT of phones in the past and by far my #1 requirement is reception. Not how shiny it is. As such I tend to prefer motorola, samsung, or blackberries. HTC has mediocre reception, on par with what I've seen from the iphone, which won't work at all in a lot of places that I get perfectly clear phone calls on my Droid.

      However, Motorola doesn't always have the phone with the best reception. They have great antennas but I guess sometimes the rest of the phone guts messes with it. Generally if they aren't on top then samsung is, and RIM have had a couple of real winners up their sleeves.

      Now, due to the feature set and what I can do with it, I'm definitely buying a phone with Android on it in the future (sorry RIM, but your OS sucks balls even for the enterprise uses it used to be great for) but I'm not necessarily going to buy it from Motorola next time around.

      Thus you end up with the only real way to compare is as an OS vs OS, not on a manufacturer scale.

      The iphone is a shiny piece of shit. Works great in cities but thats about it. It really does spark some kind of religious zealotry in its owner for some strange reason though. Even while I'm lending my droid to a friend of mine I travel with because his iphone won't work he can't stop spouting excuses on behalf of apple.

      Now if iOS was licensed to a competent manufacturer and would start getting good reception then I might consider switching. This is a big might however as I like the way my Android device integrates with most of the Google products I am already using.

    11. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      In related news, pictures of Linux have been found to light up the same parts of the brain as showing people a Hieronymus Bosch painting.

      Seriously though, lighting up the same area of the the brain automatically makes it a "religious experience" ? It can't just be esthetic appreciation or pleasure ? Crappy science media.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    12. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I just don't understand why guys that are supposed to be good at math just can't seem to grasp that yes Linux only has 1% and this is even giving Linux the benefit of the doubt by using heavily nerdish sites like /. in the counting!

      As a PC retailer who has tried Ubuntu/Mint, Mepis, and PCLOS on the stacks of off lease office PCs that go through the shop I'll be happy to tell you why Linux is stuck at 1%...your driver model sucks! I'd love to be able to offer Linux on my PCs, as most of what my customers do can easily be done on any Web accessing OS, but until you fix the driver model so that the 6 month upgrades don't make the drivers shit themselves? Well I just can't carry your product.

      I have 8+ year old XP boxes in the field where the only thing I've had to do was the occasional hardware upgrade but out of all the office boxes I tried not a single one survived the 6 month deathmarch unscathed with all having at least 1 driver shit itself, usually more than 1, and it didn't matter if I used FOSS or non FOSS drivers it was the same. But what can you expect when the head of Linux, old Linus Torvalds himself says Plans? We don't need no steenkin plans, it'll go like a virus LOL! yeah Linus its called the clap. That kind of attitude was fine when it was just him and his buds trading builds on IRC, but it ain't 1993 anymore and that kind of bullshit won't cut it in retail.

      As a wise Linux user told me when I complained about the constant driver breaks "Yeah, it does that, you just have to get used to it" which is fine if your time is worthless and you think spending an evening in front of Bash while trawlling the forums for "fixes" is nice? Then I'm happy for you. But as a retailer I can tell you that kind of shit just won't fly if you want more than the 1% you currently have. if you want the public to embrace you then you have to give them what THEY want, not tell them they have to do things YOUR way. They will NOT "Open up Bash and type" and in fact see the term for what it is, a 70s throwback that doesn't belong on a modern OS, they will NOT trawl forums for "fixes", nor will they spend days looking up obsolete hardware lists in the hopes of finding something that they can buy that will actually work in Linux.

      Fix this, make it so there is a stable ABI or hell sacrifice Linus to Cthulu if that is what it takes so drivers are "write once, use for years" and retailers like me will be happy to carry your product. think we like shelling out for Windows licenses? Hell no! But I can't sell a product where every 6 months something can be broken for a week or more because Linus got an itch and Goatse'd the kernel. It is simple math folks, you have X number of guys qualified to maintain drivers, you have Y times tens of thousands of drivers. Even if the driver devs never slept and spent 24/7 doing nothing but rewriting borked drivers you would ALWAYS be behind!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    13. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      I don't see the "KDE vs Gnome" problem

      Perhaps you have noticed that some people drive automatic and some drive manual too. Yes, its true - most people can cope with having a choice! (but MS shills dont know it).

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    14. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      that's still millions of computers, not that i care.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    15. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by alan.briolat · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a big difference is the way updates to Windows preserve all the ugly broken hacks that incompetent or unnecessarily creative driver writers used. A well-written 3rd-party Linux driver tied in with DKMS and you'll probably never have to worry about it. But a badly-written driver will probably break the moment some ugly bug it was exploiting is fixed.

      --
      I swear we should be allowed to give mod points to sigs... "-1, Offtopic"
    16. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Let me guess...the only people that make these mythical perfect Linux drivers are the guys writing for enterprise hardware, which if you are gonna pay that kind of money why not just buy Apple and have the resale value down the line? And doesn't that drive a stake in the whole "Linux is a drop in replacement for Windows!" meme that has been pushed here so often?

      Because here are the different drivers that have broken on different hardware during the upgrade deathmarch, in no particular order, and we are talking BOTH non free AND FOSS since one of the helpful "hints" I got was "you should use FOSS drivers!" while not bothering to tell me most of the FOSS drivers are crippled, like the all in one printer that under FOSS drivers becomes a 'kinda sorta when it isn't crashing" printer with NO scanner or fax.

      Well here goes, ATI, Broadcom, Realtek (both Ethernet and sound) Via, Ali, Sigmatek, Nvidia, oh and Intel which didn't die completely but instead became so flaky as to be unusable so I don't know whether or not dying would have been preferable.

      I'm sorry but that is just nuts! In fact the ONLY box I had survive the upgrade deathmarch with 100% functionality was a circa 1999 P3 733Mhz Intel SFF. Needless to say there isn't exactly a market for shit more than a decade old and that box got to end up taking its functional Linux to the dump since I didn't have a use for something THAT damned slow.

      Its actually VERY simple: Apple, BSD, Solaris, Windows, OS/2...what do all these have in common? A stable ABI that actually works. But as long as Torvalds is at the helm you can give it up, he'll NEVER let you have one. If he did he would have to admit he was wrong and he'd quit before doing that. Demand change, demand an ABI, or hell if you don't like ABIs design a way that Torvalds can Goatse the kernel without shatting on the drivers. Because as it is you will never gain above 3% max, simply because the majority isn't gonna deal with that broken driver bullshit. That crap was acceptable in 1992 but it ain't 1992 anymore, time for Linux to join the 21st century!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    17. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      When was the last time you tried Linux?

      Honest question. I used to have issues with drivers gakking themselves, but that has been quite some time. These days, everything in my computers "just works". Even my brand new laptop, which actually came with Ubuntu preinstalled on it (I replaced it with my distro of choice, but let's not get into that flamewar, yeah?), everything works out of the box. Installing my printer was a bit of a pain, but it wasn't impossible... I just had to download the ppd file for the printer, and once that was done, it works fine too. Graphics, wifi, sound, bluetooth, webcam/mic, it all "just works", at least as well as Windows 7 "just works", if not better.

      Graphics *can* be a bone of contention... ATi still doesn't have a clue how to write a decent driver, and NVidia, while able to write good drivers, insists on doing them as a binary blob, but both vendors are completely usable, you just need to redownload and rebuild/reinstall the driver every time you update the kernel (which can be avoided by blacklisting the kernel from updates). And if you want to avoid that kind of hassle, get a system with an Intel graphics card... Intel has taken the right approach by opening it up completely and working with the kernel developpers, and the result is that you don't need to install drivers at all, because the driver is part of the kernel source.

      Use what works for you, but if you do want to try getting Linux to work, I'd suggest you give it a try with a more recent distro.

    18. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 2

      One person's anecdotal experience here: I've run between 2-5 Linux boxen for about 13 years, most of which did some combination of desktop, server, and real-time audio processing, and during that time, on a box I built and installed myself, I have NEVER had a driver regression, EVER. I've seen plenty while helping friends with Ubuntu and other allegedly user-friendlier distros. But insofar as possible, I use only officially-supported hardware, with free (libre) drivers, and I also use a source-based distribution (Gentoo) which allows me to upgrade kernel, OS, and application functionality separately and on my own schedule. If I suspect that the upgrade of a kernel or anything else has broken something, I can always downgrade to a previous version, with very little risk of permanent dependency breakage due to tools such as the slots mechanism and revdep-rebuild. (The latter detects and fixes the temporary breakage that can result from package downgrades or subtlely broken ebuilds, which do happen from time to time.) I'm not saying a stable ABI wouldn't be useful or that many Linux users don't experience significant pain when trying to upgrade. I am saying that my approach mostly avoids this kind of problem, and that in my view at least it is more true to the way Linux and free software in general was designed to work. The code is the source. The binaries are merely an intermediate representation of the code, and can be easily updated or replaced as long as the source remains available and open.

    19. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google took the Linux kernel and showed what grown ups can do with an open source operating system by absolutely dominating the cellphone OS market.

      iOS is the #1 mobile operating system, not Android (and by a large margin). Android only comes out ahead when you compare all Android smartphones to the single iPhone, but if you compare phone to phone, Apple is also now the #1 phone vendor as well as the highest grossing.

      Why on earth would you do this if you are comparing phone OS share? That would like saying only one of Dells PC-models should be counted towards Windows marketshare. It isn't the rest of the worlds fault or problem that Apple are providing only one phone device.

      If you are looking for the most-selling single phone hardware device, then your approach might make sense.

      And yes, I don't think anybody would disagree that Apple is running with the highest profit margins,. Who's pockets do you think they are coming out of? All analysis on the topic show that Apple markup over production cost is significantly higher than all competitors. But this is often hidden behind subsidized plans (but these plans only time shift the cost you pay, nobody is giving away free money).

    20. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by red+crab · · Score: 1

      That crap was acceptable in 1992 but it ain't 1992 anymore, time for Linux to join the 21st century!

      Its 2011 and everything inside my new Dell laptop works on openSUSE (or Ubuntu or Fedora or distro xx, you name it) works out of the box. For the Nvdia card, had to install their proprietary driver, but the installation went like breeze. Seems its you who is actually stuck at 1992.

    21. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Hatta · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? Are you using proprietary binary blobs? If so, that's your problem. Complain to nVidia or ATI or whoever. In kernel drivers always work.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize that iPhone reception issues have more to do with AT&T than with Apple, right? It should be obvious that Apple isn't the one responsible for AT&T's cell towers...

      That doesn't necessarily mean that the iPhone has a GOOD antenna, but IMO you're comparing apples (no pun intended, for once) and oranges here.

    23. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Laurence0 · · Score: 1

      How do you compare the reception quality with the different phones? That's one of the biggest problems I've had with phones - there's no way to test it sufficiently before getting stuck in a 2 year contract with it. If you've found a reliable way to find the phone with the best reception, I'd be very interested to hear it!

    24. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      I'll be honest, a lot of it boils down to manufacturer. Motorola and lately Samsung have provided the best reception, bar none, of any of the cell phones I've used.

      RIM had a few hits, but its the exception not the rule for them.

      However when it comes to finally deciding I tend to look to friends and family members. Most all of them have phones. Almost none of them have two of the same phone. A lot of them end up traveling to touchy locations from time to time in which I'll need reception. Then some basic research into models etc. Then I'll compare against a conglomerate of web sites that rate reception. A lot of them are inadvertently, or sometimes intentionally biased by carrier and some of them by manufacturer but generally if you look at 10 and can find 3 phones that are pretty consistently inside the top 10 or top 5, whatever the reviews list, then those are your go to models. After that, find people that have those phones inside your extended social group. Ask them where they get trouble, and what happens when they do get trouble. If calls are dropping in a certain area of town but the phone is showing 5 bars of signal, then the phone can't compensate for the noise its picking up. Bam, garbage. If the phone gets down to 2 bars and starts dropping calls constantly, its antenna is either balls or too well shielded, and the primary user group that voted it up is living in the middle of a large city and never leaves. Phone otherwise is probably great but doesn't do well in edge of range conditions.

      Those are the main factors I look at. It can take a few days work to pick out a phone, but if I'm going to be stuck with something for 2-3 years then I want the damn thing to work.

    25. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      you just need to redownload and rebuild/reinstall the driver every time you update the kernel (which can be avoided by blacklisting the kernel from updates)

      You don't even need to do that. With Fedora, you just install akmod-nvidia from rpmfusion, then everything is handled automagically the easy button way..

    26. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      You DO realize that you are spouting the same BS that has been spouted for soooo damned long it actually has its own meme,right? its called Use Distro X! you see it doesn't matter that I ALREADY tried Ubuntu/Mint (both of which are supposed to be the "easy Linux") Mepis and PCLOS...nope, I should have used Distro X!

      Of course your post is worthless for TWO reasons, one I never said ANYTHING about initial installation, because other than a few nigglers initial installation went fine but that ain't the problem, it is the 6 month upgrade deathmarch that takes a big fat steaming dump on the drivers! And two if I used OpenSUSE and when the upgrade rolls around and it AGAIN takes a big old runny shit on the drivers? Well then i'll get told I should have used Gentoo, or Fedora, or some other version of X.

      Tell ya what pal, you go download the OpenSUSE from 4 years ago, upgrade to the current version, and see how much continues to work! Because I get a MINIMUM of 8 years with Windows and that is if MSFT can actually stick to the release schedule which is doubtful. other wise I get a full 2 years past the next release or 2 years after the last service pack, whichever comes later. that translates to 10 YEARS for Win2K, 14 YEARS for XP, 7 years for Vista, and 11 years for Windows 7.

      Show me a distro where I can get 7 years without the upgrade deathmarch taking a big dump on my drivers? THEN you have a point. oh and don't say "LTS!" because currently LTS has less than 2 years and LTS might as well be a codeword for "uses old software" since many software packages are tied to the kernel, which is dumb as fuck.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    27. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. The end result is the same.

      I should point out however that I'm not in america and AT&T's shitty service has little bearing on why the iPhone is a piece of shit. Its bad on every network its connected to. In Canada its the rogers network, which works just fine with other phones.

    28. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Is Ubuntu 11.04 new enough for you? Sadly I can replace every single response to this thread with a meme from Linux TM repository because it is nothing but the same old shit. Ur doin it wrong, use distro X, stable kernel ABI nonsense, I can go on all day.

      You want proof, proof like a bitchslap in the face that is impossible to deny? riddle me this: Why does Dell, the third largest OEM on the planet, have to waste serious money and resources maintaining a badly out of date repo of their own? Because if they don't, even though they only offer Linux on a teeny tiny subset of their hardware Linux will take a big shit on the drivers that's why!

      Accept it or not but if the third largest OEM can't even make the God damned drivers work without having their own fucking development team what chance does a little guy like me have? The answer, not a snowball's chance in hell. and I just love how the SAME GUYS that say "Linux is a drop in replacement for Windows" and post all those articles that say 'have an older PC? put Linux on it and save money" will in the very next breath say "Oh well you need to only buy hardware X that is certified by whom it is supposedly certified I have NO fucking idea, but it drives a stake in that "Linux can replace Windows" bullshit doesn't it? If I have to replace more than half the parts to use your OS why would I bother?

      Accept it or not, frankly I don't care. After writing articles pointing out what I needed to sell your product, practically begging on forums to get treated worse than a nigger at a Klan convention, and be modded to oblivion for daring to point out your OS has serious issues? Frankly I give up, I wouldn't take your OS if you tied $50 bills and hookers to the thing.

      But be man enough to admit it is BY geeks and FOR geeks and for the average folk it is a nightmare from hell. You have a SERIOUS OPPORTUNITY coming up, WinXP gets its plugged pulled in Apr 2014. That is literally hundreds of millions of machines out there that COULD be converted if you get the shops like mine onboard. But instead you'll spout the same "ur doin it wrong, use distro x, ur a Winshill" bullshit and then be shocked! shocked I tell you! When guys like me simply add more RAM or throw out the guts of all those PCs and put boards capable of running Windows 8 in them.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      You know, you're just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

      Nowhere did I say that you were doing it wrong. Nowhere did I say that you were using the wrong distro. Nowhere did I say that you're an idiot.

      Until now. You're an idiot. You took a post where somebody was genuinely trying to help you solve your problems, and you lept down her throat and started spewing nonsense about Dell. News flash: I'm typing this on a Dell laptop... it's the third Linux-based Dell laptop that I have bought, and not one of them is still using the Dell-provided Ubuntu installation or the Dell repos. Each of them have had different distros installed, including Zenwalk (slack-based), Bodhi (ubuntu/debian-based), and SuSE (rpm-based). I am currently using Bodhi, which maintains its own repos. On all of the above systems, which are all still in use, I have *never* had a single driver gak on me, nor have I had a single piece of hardware fail on me. It really does "just work". On this laptop, it came with a *STOCK* Ubuntu 10.04 installation... the only thing that Dell had added that doesn't come with Ubuntu was the DellConnect software, which is their Linux port of LogMeIn. There was nothing else on this system that doesn't come with a standard 10.04 installation that you can download as an ISO, and there was nothing that didn't work out of the box after I wiped the hard drive and installed a stock ISO of some other distro.

      I honestly did want to try to help you find an answer to your problem. Maybe you hadn't done it recently, maybe there's something you hadn't considered, but frankly, I don't really care any more. You're a prick, you deserve whatever happens to you.

    30. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Yea, I guess you're right - I, for one, would *not* be happy if manual transmissions disappeared, though some would see that as good.

    31. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by bonch · · Score: 1

      Why on earth would you do this if you are comparing phone OS share?

      My point was that people compare the entire Android platform of devices to just the iPhone instead of the entire iOS platform of devices, which includes iPads and iPods. With all iOS devices counted, iOS surpasses Android by a large margin.

      Moderators can mod me as "Funny" if they want to, but it's not going to change the numbers.

    32. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by bonch · · Score: 1

      Mod me "funny" all you want. The press compares all Android devices to a single phone instead of to all iOS devices. With iPods and iPads counted, iOS far surpasses Android in marketshare.

    33. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      How EXACTLY is "use distro X" being helpful in ANY way shape or form? you DO realize there are over 400 distros on distro watch, yes? So use distro X can easily last a couple of years installing weekly!

      And if you would have bothered to look at the others posting in this thread EVERY SINGLE MEME I pointed out was called upon, sorry if you find that bothersome but I didn't feel like posting to each one individually to point out which meme they were using. you used TWO memes, the "you must have used Linux years ago!" meme along with "use distro x" which is why i chose yours.

      And how many times do I have to say this? it is NOT the installation that is the problem, okay? NOT the installation. it is the 6 month upgrade deathmarch that takes a big steaming dump on the drivers!

      Since you seem so sure it is me, why don't you perform this little test and see for yourself. Download Ubuntu 8, then upgrade to Ubuntu 11. That is only THREE YEARS worth of upgrades so you should have NO problems, right? i'm willing to bet my last dollar that if you get all the drivers working on Ubuntu 8 by the time you get to 11 half will be broken and there will be NO WAY for you to fix them EXCEPT "open up bash and type" which I've already point out is a fail since home users won't touch that CLI crap.

      Look when MSFT puts out a superbomb like Vista and you gain NO SHARE while Apple, with a $1000 entry fee, gains like mad. then to quote one of the memes "ur doin it wrong". pick ANY distro, any one at all, I dare you. pick any one and take the .ISO from 5 years ago and upgrade to the current and see how much is broken. Remember that isn't even half what you get for Windows support so surely it'll work, right?

      And frankly I don't give a shit what you think of me, I'm just tired of the bald faced lies. Linux is NOT ready for the desktop, it is NOT a drop in replacement for Windows, it is NOT easy to use, it is NOT stable! Reality and the BS being pushed is about as far apart as from here to Mars! this is why Best Buy, Staples, Walmart, and ASUS, who ALL tried selling Linux have ALL quit bothering and walked away. it isn't the price, it is the fact that the constant driver breakage makes your support costs insane.

      One final thing...when was the last time you had to fire up a term? was it this month? This week? Today? if the answer is "at all" then it simply isn't ready because Joe and Sally average aren't messing with that 70s era terminal shit and frankly who can blame them. As far as they are concerned both Windows and OSX don't have a CLI, because they never ever in a million years touch the thing, ever. I have yet to see even simple problems fixed in Linux without CLI. CLI is great for servers but NOT for desktops. Good day sir.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    34. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why on earth would you do this if you are comparing phone OS share?

      My point was that people compare the entire Android platform of devices to just the iPhone instead of the entire iOS platform of devices, which includes iPads and iPods. With all iOS devices counted, iOS surpasses Android by a large margin.

      Moderators can mod me as "Funny" if they want to, but it's not going to change the numbers.

      You could also do that, if you want to look at portable device platforms (then you should also include a ton of Windows CE and Linux devices), but it is still not a phone OS market comparison.

      What I don't get is why it suddenly is so wrong to look at phone OS marketshare just because Apple lost the #1 position. This have been reported since before Apple even made their first phone and is a perfectly legitimate and informative way of measuring the mobile phone market.

    35. Re:Google & Apple Humiliated The Linux World by Laurence0 · · Score: 1

      Thanks - that makes sense. It's going to be a while 'til I'm looking for my next one, but I'll bear it in mind!

  18. Obligatory... by gman003 · · Score: 1

    And there was much rejoicing.

    1. Re:Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yaaaaaayyyyy....

  19. Apple looks so small..., where's Android? by rjejr · · Score: 1

    So does this include "all" internet access, b/c honestly I thought smartphones were used more by now. And the 3DS and PSP. And the Wii and PS3. And Google tv. Guess this means for all the Apple vs. Android stuff Microsoft still controls the internet? Can't believe I was starting to buy into the hype.

    1. Re:Apple looks so small..., where's Android? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      While I can't speak about the mobile parts, game console browsers are nearly unusable. While the Wii has a pretty decent browser and the PS3s isn't terrible, both the PSP and 3DS browsers are unusable except for looking up basic info. Slow, no flash, etc.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  20. MS is Lying!!! by abednegoyulo · · Score: 0

    Using their logic

    more {virus, malware, wachamacallit} = have lots of people using it

    and the recent news on /. that XP has a very huge number of infected PCs, then it is safe to assume that XP has still a very large user base. The only indication that XP's userbase has shrunk is when Win7 has more virus, malware and other threaths!

    Long live XP!!!

    1. Re:MS is Lying!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when has MS ever spoken the truth in any of these US vs THEM number games. In college I took a course titled "How to lie with statistics while still telling the absolute truth."

  21. Pie Chart Pulled Out Of Orifice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As Wikipedians might say, citation needed. In TFA, where are the links to the original source, its data, assumptions, research methodology? I could spend 2 minutes doodling with some crayon and come up with something just as solid as that pie chart. Geez.

  22. Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by AddisonW · · Score: 0

    I'm surprised those numbers aren't lower.

    Over the past couple of years Windows has pretty much disappeared. Every single person I know over the past couple of years has bought a Mac. However, overall computer use seems to have dropped quite a bit with cellphones and tablets becoming the primary computing device friends and family use to day to day.

    Of course the cellphones and tablet are all Android and Apple with one or two Blackberry people. I know this just anecdotal evidence but I have to imagine this isn't just some random fluke.

    I think we are see just how high the stakes were when Mozilla and Chrome took away 40-50 percent of the browser market from IE. I don't think anything we are seeing now with Android and Apple cellphones and tablets would be possible if IE still completely dominated the web.

    1. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you checked the estrogen levels in the area around you?
      It's a likely explanation for that amount of Macs in an area with men only. ;)

    2. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course you're surprised. You don't see reality like normal humans. Sure, create fantasies based on your chance encounters.
      Every single person you know has bought a Mac? You must either wear blinders or you shun people who don't crave the shiny.

    3. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by kevinmenzel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Half the people I know with macs have installed Windows 7 on them. About half of those people have stopped using OSX all together, and intend on never buying Apple products again. Aren't anecdotes fun.

    4. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Kalendraf · · Score: 1

      It's not that suprising when considering how many companies still have WinXP as their main OS. For example, the company I work for has about 20K employees worldwide, and WinXP remains our OS platform. Thus, the people that your or I know who aren't using WinXP are probably a tiny fraction when compared to these large corporate install bases.

    5. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      My anecdote is funner, but it has financial results to trump your anecdote. See, everyone I know with a Mac has a Windows partition, but none of them use it. They 'think' they need Windows, but as new Mac converts, they learn that they really don't need Windows, and they start to understand that people like me who have been Windows free since 1989 aren't crazy zealots, and they no longer boot into Windows except to play games (and even that is dwindling).

    6. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I just left a Windows-only company of 3,000 employees for a Mac-only company of 50k+ employees. It's only a matter of time until other companies figure it out and ditch Windows.

    7. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      A Mac-only company of 50K employees.

      Must be an interesting world on the other side of that Einstein-Rosen bridge you managed to find there.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    8. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by RobbieThe1st · · Score: 1

      Hm... so what you're saying is that it takes over 16 Mac users to equal one windows user? Wow, that sure doesn't bode well... :D

    9. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Well, what I was saying is that life is much better on the other side. I'm just saying life isn't as Windows dependent as most people think. I get why so many corporations use Windows. I don't, however, get why so many individuals free-willingly choose Windows for their personal use.

    10. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Problem is, the software needed to design a Mac doesn't run on OSX - you need Windows to design your Mac.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    11. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Maybe I'll meet you someday, wandering the halls around 1 Infinite Loop!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    12. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by black3d · · Score: 1

      Because I prefer the Windows 7 interface and usability to Lion. Don't get me wrong - I'm not anti Apple. I have and iPhone and a MacBook, but I still use Win7 for my daily personal use because I greatly prefer it. Consider, maybe, that different folks are.. different? :) What you prefer in an OS might not sit right with me at all, and vice versa. Life is only better "on the other side" if it's actually preferential to use.

      --
      "The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught." - DSRilk
    13. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      your little corner != the world. most of the planet still runs windows in corporate land.. this might change, but right now apple and linux are still niche markets.

    14. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 1

      I don't, however, get why so many individuals free-willingly choose Windows for their personal use.

      I haven't purchased an entire brand new computer in over 20 years. With Windows I can choose from a very large array of options what hardware I want to use. And I can upgrade specific bits when I need to. Cases and PSU's tend to last a very long time. As do CD/DVD ROM/burners and hard drives. I tend to upgrade the MB and CPU together. If needed the RAM at the same time. About half the time the VGA too. This tends to spread the expense out over time. Plus the hardware for a Windows/Linux/BSD system tends to be cheaper. The company I work for is almost exclusively Mac based and they seem fine to me too. But I don't see how they are any better/worse than Windows based computers either. Just slightly different. Now I won't tell anyone at work this, because I get a kick out of telling them that Windows is better and watching them go off the deep end. ;-)

    15. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by sirnobicus · · Score: 1

      It is quite difficult to add linux/apple into a windows corp environment. There always seems to be a 3rd party application that needs to be installed to smooth over the hiccups these OS's cause.

    16. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of that software would be CAD tools, and that too, mainly Unix/Linux based tools. Since Apple now designs a lot of their chipsets, I'd think they use HDLs like Verilog/VHDL, which is mainly available on Unix/Linux workstations. If they work on BSD, Apple could run them on a Mac, under an X console. For PCB-layout, they may need something like ORCAD, but even for such Windows apps, they could do it under virtualization.

      I think it's more a pity that Apple hasn't thought of making OS-X commercially available to those who'd like to use them w/ PCs - exhibiting the same shortsightedness when they forced Motorola, Power Computing and Umax to end their Mac operations. It's been thought by some that they might make the next MacBooks/iBooks/Airbooks w/ their A5 processor: if they do, they could make the Lion available for PCs (do it for the main configurations - Intel/AMD + nVidia/ATI, if not other configurations), and erode Windows market share. It won't hurt Mac sales, but it would help them gain market share @ the expense of Microsoft. Also, if they move their macs to A5, they'd have a common platform for iPODs, iPADs and all other Macs. A whole Ecosystem.

      As for Microsoft, as they move to Windows 8, they would do well to port it to the new 64-bit MIPS platform, since there is no 64-bit ARM so far.

    17. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Half the people I know with macs have installed Windows 7 on them.

      And I have a PC with OSX installed on it...

    18. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      I definitely know people like that. Some people just can't stand the way OSX works. Me I'm the opposite, switching to mac felt like coming home. Different strokes for different folks, that's why we have choice.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    19. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by shugah · · Score: 1

      You went for the worst of breed?

      --
      If you aren't part of the solution, then there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
    20. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      1989? So you haven't tried a version of Windows since Windows 2?

      I'm not sure System 6 would compare all that well to Windows 7, just like Windows 2 wouldn't compare all that well to OS X. I remember the days of System 6 and 7. Compared to what was available at the time, they were leaps and bounds ahead of the competition, (Windows was a joke at the time) but compared to anything modern, they were horrible. System 6 didn't support multitasking without multifinder (which was a hack), and both of them were terribly unstable (no protected memory and co-operative multitasking).

    21. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      He didn't say how many of those employees use a computer. Could be 3 managers with macs and 49,997 Chinese factory workers with no computer at all...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    22. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      From personal experience at Apple, board layout and mechanical design is done with PC-based tools, not UNIX offerings. Specifically PADS/PCB and Solidworks.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    23. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by Galilee · · Score: 1

      You've got that right. The vast majority of the requests for my employer's web page come from Windows XP, and the site is only of interest to businesses. Here's a rough breakdown:
      80% - Windows XP
      11% - Windows 7
      4% - Windows Vista
      3% - Mac OS X
      2% - other (Linux, other Windows version, etc)

    24. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well had my former employer ever bothered to upgrade to Win7, the differences on the other side might not have been so drastic. I like Win7 but it is not so super stable and awesome for business as people think. That's my only point, really; you don't really know until you go from XP in the workplace to Snow Leopard/Lion in the workplace. The daily gremlins of Windows that I took for granted for 15 years disappeared in a day. So far in three months the only gremlin I've had is one of my four Macs seems to get confused on waking up from sleep with bluetooth devices attached. I'll take that general inconvenience over lost productivity every day of the week.

    25. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by mekkab · · Score: 1

      I use it to play Blood Bowl: Legendary Edition with my friends. If they made a mac client (or if I wasn't too cheap to buy parallels) I'd never need to dual boot.

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    26. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem for Macs that I can see is that Apple doesn't actually care about the enterprise, so no management platform I'm aware of, and that they randomly break stuff just as much as microsoft does - i.e. if you use Lion, you can't connect to a samba share unless you don't use the samba build Apple provides. I recall a version or two ago, they had done the same thing with Perl.

      Not to mention that there's all sorts of fun with working with Exchange, though that may be MS as much as Apple (and the fact that users never listen to update their mail client)...

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    27. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Except the people I know with Windows partitions were long time Mac users, not recent Windows converts still trying to hold on to the platform. I'm talking first mac they owned was released in 1984 kind of Mac users. And as new Windows users, they are learning that they don't really need OSX. Apple's attitude towards a variety of issues really has worn off on some people, and as much as they are comfortable with the platform, they are finding more reasons to be frustrated with Apple as a company, and thus are looking for opportunities to avoid them in the future. Actually most of the Mac users I know have actually been less and less proud of being Mac users since Jobs came back, just from a brand loyalty perspective. They don't like the way he runs things, and the way he acts. They never bought Macs as fashion statements, but rather as functional computers through the 90s, tools with which to do work. That kind 80s-90s Sculley-era Mac fan is perfectly willing to look at alternatives these days.

    28. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Except the people I know with Windows partitions were long time Mac users, not recent Windows converts still trying to hold on to the platform. I'm talking first mac they owned was released in 1984 kind of Mac users. And as new Windows users, they are learning that they don't really need OSX.

      You live in quite the alternative reality there. If anything, the past 10 years or so (OS X) has proven that more and more people are figuring out they really don't need Windows, not the other way around. The ONLY reason Windows has the market share it does is because people were dead scared in the 90s to try anything else. The Internet came along and all of a sudden OS-agnosticism kicked in. Once people were left up to their own choice and no longer feared that there stuff wouldn't work in Windows, Macs started picking up steam.

      And as one of the 1984 era Mac loyalists myself, you citing Sculley-era Mac fans says everything I need to know about your perspective.

      I still can't believe you think Mac owners boot into Windows for anything other than playing video games.

    29. Re:Windows Has All But Disappeared Around Me by kevinmenzel · · Score: 1

      Not believe, know. Know that they prefer Office on Windows to anything on OSX. Know that they prefer MediaMonkey on Windows to the various media players on OSX. Know that they prefer doing essentially every task on Windows versus OSX because they are the kind of people that have run in to roadblocks on OSX where OSX says "Do things this way" and that's not the way they want to do things, and Windows does it different. These people exist in my life. They may not exist in your life. That's fine. But my original point is that both classes of people exist: Those who are moving from Windows to OSX, and those who are moving from OSX to Windows. And they all have different reasons, different experiences, and want to be treated in different ways as customers.

  23. Re:smartphones by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    Actually I'll switch it up. I carefully waited for the specs to "mature" then I got an iPhone 3GS as a direct upgrade from an old Windows Mobile 6 phone. Clear improvement. But NOW I see no reason to upgrade "just to an iPhone 4".

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  24. Why do I need a newer version of XP? by TimHunter · · Score: 2

    I use Win XP to run Quicken 2008 in a VMware virtual machine on OS X. I paid $100 for an OEM version of XP a few years ago for this very purpose. I won't upgrade until there's no other alternative.

    1. Re:Why do I need a newer version of XP? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Same way I run XP; VMware under Leopard; I sandbox XP away from the Intertubez, I keep a nice saved copy of the VM, and no worries at all.

      What's really fun is when I'm running XP under OSX in a VM, and under XP, I'm running my 6809 emulation, and in the 6809 emulation, I'm running the debugger. It's like the "13th Floor", only better.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  25. Calm down fanboy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No need to launch into Defend teh Hive mode.

  26. Used by less than half of all internet users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So would that mean less than half the brain is used, or it generally used with just one hand that's missing a finger?

  27. TechSoup by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

    We have new hardware to install in my church's office. The old computers run XP, purchased as charity licenses. The new hardware came with Vista and I was hoping we could install Windows 7 instead. As a result, we're going to be shoe-horning XP back onto the *new* machines, and I'll be installing an Ubuntu dual-boot on them to see if there's any way to get the staff to consider moving to it. Go-go-gadget greed, Microsoft!

    Tech for non-profits:

    TechSoup Global, founded in 1987 as The CompuMentor Project, is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that provides technology assistance to other nonprofit organizations in the United States and in 35 countries.
    TechSoup.Org Product Donations, originally known as DiscounTech and later as TechSoup Stock, is a technology product philanthropy service for nonprofits which was launched in January 2002. It is the exclusive U.S. distributor of Microsoft product donations, and helps to connect nonprofits and libraries to over 430 different product donations from 45 donating partners (including Cisco, Symantec, Sun and Adobe).

    TechSoup TechSoup

    Microsoft software donations are still mainstays of the TechSoup program. And it's a good thing! Since they started the program in 1998, Microsoft has donated more than $3.9 billion worth of software to nonprofit organizations in more than 100 countries worldwide, now reaching over 40,000 nonprofits each year.

    Organizations can now request Microsoft products as needed, not just once per year. Also, there is no longer a five-seat minimum requirement, so an organization can request just one license if that is all it needs.

    Now you can request from up to 10 different Microsoft title groups in each two-year cycle

    Take our Check Program Eligibility Quiz --- see if you're eligible for Microsoft and our 44 other donation programs.

    To learn more about the updates to the Microsoft Software Donation Program and how they affect your organization, visit our Overview of the Microsoft Software Donation Program. Then, join us on August 4, 2011, for a free webinar Microsoft Donation Program: How Does It Work?

    Good News! Updates to the Microsoft Software Donation Program [July 27]

    1. Re:TechSoup by Omega+Hacker · · Score: 1

      Wow, thanks for linking that!!! Looks like we might actually be able to "upgrade" to an OS that's not about to have a bullet put in it, without breaking our very stressed bank ;-) Of course, that doesn't hold true for Office, as there's no way I'd subject our staff to the latest version given the unanimous horrible things I've heard about it. OpenOffice FTW...

      --
      GStreamer - The only way to stream!
    2. Re:TechSoup by westlake · · Score: 2

      Wow, thanks for linking that!!!

      The picture is a little more complicated.

      For Microsoft, it's the difference between the Presbyterian Home For The Aged and The First Presbyterian Church. The food bank sponsored by Catholic Charities and The Holy Trinity R.C. Church on Tenth Street.

      Microsoft has a steeply discounted "open licensing" program for charities through its VAR sales partners. TechSoup can still be of help to you for other software.

      Of course, that doesn't hold true for Office, as there's no way I'd subject our staff to the latest version given the unanimous horrible things I've heard about it. OpenOffice FTW...

      I think you should give "The Ribbon" a try. It has been an insanely successful product at retail and the chances are damn good your people will have no fear of it.

      MS Office skills are taught everywhere --- and to all ages. The Senior Center. The High School. This is a godsend when you are trying to staff an office on an impossibly tight budget and mostly with volunteers.

      Microsoft's charitable VAR licensing supports the MS Office Home User program.

      The $10 download for your staff.

    3. Re:TechSoup by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has a steeply discounted "open licensing" program for charities through its VAR sales partners. TechSoup can still be of help to you for other software.

      ah yes... anything to avoid them trying Linux... and of course, they get a tax break on the "donation" as well...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    4. Re:TechSoup by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 1

      Be sure to thoroughly read program restrictions. 503c's are not created equal, nor do they enjoy the same benefits. There are loopholes, however.

      Before you sign up look at your organization and see if there's anything that services the community as a whole, as opposed to just the congregation. Think secular outreach.

      Example: The Church of Cthulu seeks the benefits of Techsoup, however as a 503c faith based organization their options are limited. They open the Nyarlothotep Coffee, Books & More store, available to all the townsfolk, irrespective of their faith, which runs under the same 503c as the Church. They apply as NCB&M, as a secular outreach, et voilá! Magically, MS & Adobe benefits (all products carried) are now theirs.

      World dominion ensues.

      --
      Some days it's just not worth
      chewing through my restraints.
    5. Re:TechSoup by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 1

      Doh! No coffee yet, 501c3, not 503c. Mea Culpa.

      --
      Some days it's just not worth
      chewing through my restraints.
    6. Re:TechSoup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $12 whole dollars for a Windows 7 license.

    7. Re:TechSoup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't really a non-profit organisation. They are the church :)

    8. Re:TechSoup by Rennt · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has donated more than $3.9 billion worth of software to nonprofit organizations in more than 100 countries worldwide, now reaching over 40,000 nonprofits each year.

      That's $3.9b worth of artificial scarcity. It didn't cost MS a dime.

      I hope to god they aren't trying to use it for a tax break, but I fear that is the whole point.

    9. Re:TechSoup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad most churches are for-profit.

  28. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by icebraining · · Score: 1

    Bullshit, my Northwood ran Windows 7, Chrome and MS Office just fine.

  29. Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, yes, security concerns and all... but since when does Joe Randomuser care?

    WinXP is the first Windows OS that has everything the user wants, even when the next system (actually, the two next systems) is out. When 98 came out, it was a definite upgrade to 95, not to mention that quite a few games soon required 98SE. 2k was a big leap ahead from 98 and NT, combining the versatility of the 9x line with the stability of the NT line, adding out of the box USB support to both. XP again brought new bells and whistles and WiFi support, more stability and more user friendliness.

    No, I didn't forget ME. I decided to ignore regressions in development.

    But Vista/7? What's the big benefit compared to XP?

    DirectX10? So what? Few games really require it, you can do without. Aero? Please, let's talk about something useful, shall we? Now, I am probably not an expert on Windows, but that's pretty much all where I can see Vista/7 sing "everything you do I can do better".

    There is simply no reason for people to jump onto Vista/7. I do assume that the "drop" in XP is simply due to people getting new computers with a new system, which is pretty much by default not XP but probably Win7 if they decide for a Windows OS.

    tl;dr version: Nothing to see here, move along.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you on vista but I have to say that windows 7 was the biggest jump of all. To be honest I don't care enough about windows to start looking at specs and scrutinize the list of upgrades. As a primarily Linux user, windows 7 was the first one that I don't feel like ripping my hair out in frustration every time I use it.

    2. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 3

      While I agree with you completely on Vista, Win7 does have one killer feature for a lot of people - reliable 64bit support. XP64 is horribly broken, painful, and mostly unsupported by software and hardware manufacturers.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    3. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't explain it, but after using Windows 7 for a while it is much better than XP to the point that going to pure XP feels like going back to 98 from XP. Going from Win7 to Vista feels like going back to 95 though. There is no major must have features to force an upgrade, but the way it runs and the small things add up enough that you miss them. Much like you don't need cruise control for a car, but dam it will be a cold day in hell before I buy a car without it.

    4. Re:Why upgrade? by geefau · · Score: 1

      Recently I was involved with a medium sized desktop roll out for an insurance company in Australia, they decided to stick with Windows XP & Office 2003 because this combination does everything required, is stable, secure and the users & admins are comfortable with it. They expect to be with this combination for at least 3 years.

      Obviously cost savings were a factor, an OS upgrade 7 would lead to an update of office, which would require a new set of standard templates/documents, costly staff training and not to mention the server side of things. Office 2010 conveniently doesn't support Exchange 2003. When considering 5,000+ workstations these things matter.

      Microsoft is failing to demonstrate the real benefits of an upgrade to Windows 7? Looking at http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/features, the main appealing item is 64-bit support, but it's possible to run XP 64-bit. Two features that interest me are the Windows Deployment Tools and the new Windows Search services.

    5. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, very few people need more than 2GB per application, so 32-bit with PAE is all the vast majority of computer users really need.

    6. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also the new harddisk format ADF (4KB sectors) support is dreadful on XP, even with the manufacturers patch it was going to take 9 to format the 2TB drive I bought. Took me an hour to switch to Win7, including the format.

    7. Re:Why upgrade? by wadeal · · Score: 1

      When 98 came out, it was a definite upgrade to 95, not to mention that quite a few games soon required 98SE.

      But Vista/7? What's the big benefit compared to XP?

      DirectX10? So what? Few games really require it, you can do without.

      Sorry, but you're argument is kind of contradictory. (By the way, it's Direct X 11 you're thinking of) You're saying people had to upgrade to 98 because games required it, but not stating that negatively. But when people have to upgrade to 7 to play newer games, well they don't even need to play them apparently.

      Just to point out though, Win 7 compared to XP: Better search, More secure (UAC), Libraries, Faster and Easier Networking (HomeGroup), DX11 Support, WMP12, IE9, Easier Migration (WET), Better Performance and Diagnostic tools, Much easier to Navigate (ie. Type literally whatever you're after in the start search box), As pointed out proper 64 bit and just literally so many little things that improve the user experience it's a headache having to use XP again.

      From my experience having used 7 exclusively the last couple of years now, whenever I have to work on an XP machine it'll be buggy as shit, explorer will continually lock up if I try to work at the speed I can on 7, literally it can lock up for no visible reason whatsoever, memory and CPU will be at nothing, just you tried to do too much

      But seriously all the things you've mentioned can be said about upgrading from 2K to XP. They are essentially the same OS underneath, all XP brang was a fancy skin and a couple of features that couple of been just introduced as a SP for 2K, definitely less than what 7 brings over XP wouldn't you agree? But you seem to have a huge hard on for XP. I'm guessing you've never used 7? Because if you did you'd eat your fucking hat when you realise 7 is 2 OS's ahead of XP in terms of performance and features, unlike XP that was released like a year after it's predecessor and is literally just eye candy ontop of that OS.

    8. Re:Why upgrade? by Nemo's+Night+Sky · · Score: 1

      DirectX10? So what? Few games really require it, you can do without. Aero? Please, let's talk about something useful, shall we? Now, I am probably not an expert on Windows, but that's pretty much all where I can see Vista/7 sing "everything you do I can do better".

      I was going to say Windows Presentation Foundation but then Microsoft went and backported it to XP as part of .NET 3 for XP. Microsoft was facing issues with the new technology failing to be adopted because the install base for XP at release time was much higher than what we see in TFS. (Who reads TFA?)

    9. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Win7 does have one killer feature for a lot of people - reliable 64bit support."

      That was a Vista feature. It was Vista were Microsoft started requiring 32/64 bit support in order to pass their driver validation. And running a Vista 64bit system here, I've no problems. I've got a free win7 upgrade dvd, and so far seen no reason to upgrade.

      When people think of Vista problems they remember the vendor's getting to grip with WDDM, etc. By the time win 7 came out, vendors were doing much better, on both win7 and vista.

    10. Re:Why upgrade? by clarkn0va · · Score: 1

      SSD Trim.

      Mind you, I'm all Ubuntu at home, but for a Windows SSD user trim is the killer feature.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    11. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      brang?!

    12. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is simply no reason for people to jump onto Vista/7

      Vista? As you said, let's ignore regressions in development.

      I've been watching a steady stream of people moving to 7 because their old box had got "slow" -- meaning clogged with malware. They didn't need faster hardware, but cleaning XP is a bad joke for Joe R, hence nice new box time.

    13. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo! Microsoft hit the nail on the head with XP. They should be proud. It does what we want and does it easier, better and far more reliably than any previous Windows version. But Windows 7, like lame 20-year-late movie sequels and every version of MS Office after '97, are less about providing value for the customer and more about making money for the publisher. Hey, they need to make money --- I'm not knocking it --- but after a few decades there are only so many new have-to-have features that a publisher can come up with.

    14. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with you completely on Vista, Win7 does have one killer feature for a lot of people - reliable 64bit support.

      The problem there is very few people care about 64 bit support , unless you are running a server or have a need to use CAD, 3D Modeling, or Database software. The average Joe Random user is not running that kind of software. All he cares about when it comes to hardware requirements is if it can log into facebook in ten seconds and play farmville while having six dozen tabs open.

      The only area I can think of where 64 bit systems would benefit being in a home average user setting is video games, but most commercial video games don't support 64 bit systems beyond the fact that they will run on them, (Due to the need for console compatibility) So much like DirectX 10, the average user doesn't care about it. Windows 7 may have (I admit much) better support for 64 bit systems, but most average users won't buy Windows 7 just for that. Especially as long as Windows XP gives them what they want.

    15. Re:Why upgrade? by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      stick with Windows XP & Office 2003 because this combination does everything required, is stable, secure

      I guess they didn't check the information on the sort of security updates Microsoft releases for Windows XP and office 2003 now... Their 'extended support' has been pretty bad, but they are technically still in the 'extended support' phase until 2014. Personally, I feel this insurance company isn't taking security very seriously, considering the numerous security enhancements that were available in Vista. Such as functionality that won't allow an outdated system to access the regular subnet until it's downloaded all updates, or the greater fine grained controls for software management and system security auditing...

      I could go on to specifics, but I see little point, I'm just shocked they would dismiss all the new domain management functionality in the newer versions of windows that make running an organisation, especially one that deals with personal information, more secure and install stronger auditing controls. The idea they've paid no notice to the changes in security updates to XP is rather distressing too.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Killer feature of Windows 7: "New folder" button!! :)

    17. Re:Why upgrade? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>However, very few people need more than 2GB per application, so 32-bit with PAE is all the vast majority of computer users really need.

      Err... games? How much memory does a high-end FPS use these days, anyway?

      Hell, a nethack-ish game I've been enjoying recently (Dungeons of Dredmore) uses 1GB of RAM. While it's fun, it just looks like any other roguelike with a cheesy tileset added.

    18. Re:Why upgrade? by Saffaya · · Score: 1

      While I can't comment directly on XP64, Win 2003 server x64 (XP code base) runs fine.
      You get 64-bit support and win XP. Best of both worlds.

    19. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DirectX 10+ and 64bit were the only two reasons I have for upgrading my OS when I make my next significant hardware purchase.

    20. Re:Why upgrade? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>But Vista/7? What's the big benefit compared to XP?

      64-bit support, and the internals are better / more stable than XP's. Better profiling tools, and so forth.

      But XP's GUI is better. Whoever thought that Win7's control panel should be alphabetized in row/zigzag fashion is an idiot. I.e. if you're not using Simple mode, it alphabetizes like this:
      ABCD
      EFGH
      IJKL
      MNOP
      QRST
      UVWX
      YZ

      And you can't change it. By design, apparently - from a support thread on the topic: "The items in the control panel are alphabetized by row and it is by design. You cannot alphabetize by column. Mouneshwar R â" Microsoft Support"

      Also, breadcrumbs can fail sometimes, and they removed the up-arrow in the Windows Explorer, which is kind of annoying. The new start menu is also terrible, but Classic Shell can fix both these problems (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/).

    21. Re:Why upgrade? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      1. more annoying search that requires an indexer with very shitty load heuristics. this feature is abused too. think about it, loading the control panel should show ALL of the control panels that are available, not just some of them with a search box where you can have fun guessing what you're looking for. relabeling things so they're hard to remember generic sounding phrases doesn't help either. it's like someone was trying to make the layout hard to memorize so the user is forced into using the stupid search.

      2.Libraries are an additional confusing abstraction on top of files/directories and links. There really is no point to this.

      3. WMP12/IE9 could easily run on any NT OS. they just artificially lock it to win7 to get you to upgrade. ALL the migration tools suck no matter which windows is doing the migrating.

      4. DX11.. minus the gpu memory mapping, these things could be added to winxp with little issue. after all, these same extensions are available under opengl 4 in any os that runs ati/nvidia drivers.

      5. I don't understand the hate regarding xp 64.. it took a little bit of work to get drivers for it, but it worked great.. once vista became the norm, it actually got EASIER to get 64 bit kernel drivers for devices.

      6. speed? i find win7's explorer sluggish, even with aero turned off. the shortcut keys to various dialogs are now incredibly cumbersome and unintuitive. someone did not think this explorer through all the way, that's for sure. xp64's explorer is REALLY fast..

    22. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And aside from supporting more than 3 GB of RAM, where is the actual benefit for consumers?

    23. Re:Why upgrade? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      For shit and kicks I downgraded to WindowsXP this weekend with IE 6 and IE 7 to see what hte fuss was all about as I want to make a website and cater to these corporate users.

      My experience with XP SUCKED. It was klunky, slow, insecure, and IE 7 kept crashing and locking up. I know it is a shitty browser, but I wanted to see if other websites still catered to it for my experiment. Only half my ram was recognized even though I have PAE enabled, I didn't get sound until I installed SP 3 due to using HDMI. I thought the gui was better looking at first and I was in a time warp from 10 years ago. Did I mention IE was unusable and the system took longer to boot with XP than Windows 7?? WindowsXP was slower and less responsive. I noticed when a browser or app did a lot of work the whole system would lock or slow down. It felt like a single processor system on my hex core.

      World of Warcraft sucked ass with a 40% reduction in frame rates. I was getting 19 fps on an ati 5750. That shouldn't happen. Flash doesn't have accelerated GPU video and so on.

      Why upgrade?
      Here on Windows 7 IE 8 FLIES and is fast and bugfree if you are a clueless user. IE 9 has accelerated video, Chrome works better with video and scrolling text, all my ram is recognized. Also Aero is usefull. I love moving my cursor to see a preview of the apps. In addition I drag the title bar in apps to resize them A LOT with Gnome Shell and Windows 7. Can't do that in XP. I can also drag Windows to the far left and right and Aero in Windows 7 will automatically resize them so I can have 2 windows side by side etc. If you have more than 2 processors you can see a boast in performance from the newer kernels

      Windows 7 is a nice upgrade on a modern machine and I am glad to be back.

    24. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try to use Windows 7 for a few months. Switch back to XP and then you'll know.

      Anyway, by your own admission, you're no expert on Windows, which explains your nonsense comment.

    25. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can give you some reasons:

      SSD support, per-app sound volume and better memory management.

      On the other hand, I hate the changes to the taskbar. I hate that I cannot add quicklinks to the taskbar, I cannot see the name of my apps, several windows of the same program stack in the same icon (so it is now two clicks to look at a "chat window" in skype/msn/etc) or that I cannot remove the darn Skype icon from the task bar (and have it only lying in the tray area) while it is running.

    26. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, I run XP64 on a computer at work, and I've never had any issues with it. I've installed all sorts of random software, but not done that much in the way of hardware changes.

    27. Re:Why upgrade? by CycleMan · · Score: 1

      My experience with XP SUCKED. It was klunky, slow, insecure, and IE 7 kept crashing and locking up. I know it is a shitty browser, but I wanted to see if other websites still catered to it for my experiment. Here on Windows 7 IE 8 FLIES and is fast and bugfree if you are a clueless user.

      Upgrading from IE7 to even Firefox 3 or Opera 9 fixes most of that. The later versions of these browsers work great as well, and are all XP-compatible. You had a bad experience with XP, but apparently right now people are on XP better than 2:1 over Win7.

      What would it take for the average user (think of someone you know who reads USA Today or People Magazine instead of /.) to want to upgrade? If Microsoft could figure that out, it would be neat. Instead, I hear about a series of technical features that sound like they mainly support bleeding-edge users, and about a set of design locks (like WMP12 only in Win7) that are intended to force unwilling herds of people into upgrades.

      Meanwhile Apple makes people ooh and ahh over form factor and user experience enough that a recent survey showed 35% of people willing to buy iPhone 5 without ever seeing it, hearing its pricetag, or knowing what makes it different from version 4. You'll know MS has succeeded in this when /. readers regularly accuse each other of being MS fanbois. Until then... no dice and give me XP.

    28. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Explorer is totally broken in Vista / 7.

      Without the *exact same* explorer functionality (address bar with full editable path, left hand treeview with full functionality) I will not be switching. Ever.

    29. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The elephant in the room is that XP is the last Windows OS that required activation.
      That is what is slowing down the adoption... Especially in the rest of the world.

    30. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the key improvements is I/O priority. With all the background crap on modern Windows machines, this is an important feature. Of course, it's not done right yet (it requires too much cooperation from the background crap), but the basics are there. It also has better support for SSDs and 4KB sectors (i.e. big disks). So there are in fact multiple improvements to the storage subsystem. Of course, Joe Randomuser wouldn't see those.

    31. Re:Why upgrade? by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 1

      No, I didn't forget ME. I decided to ignore regressions in development.

      For everyone that seems to poo poo ME it seems that a lot of people forget that System Restore was the most important technical feature to come along to Windows since 95.

    32. Re:Why upgrade? by bored · · Score: 1

      The problem with w2k3, is that a lot of software detects its running on a "server" and won't install without the "extra special bend your wallet over", server edition of the software.

      I know, I ran w2k3 for a few years as an upgrade to win2k, before downgrading to XP. Plus, there seems to be a certain number of titles that validate they are running on a supported platform before actually installing. The problem is that often w2k3 isn't included by vendors that think their software is desktop only. Therefore the supported list is XP,Vista,7.

      In both of these cases its often possible to run the software in compatibility mode using the application compatibility toolkit. But the effort is often just not worth it.

    33. Re:Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Few of those people really want or need 64bit support. Most applications are still either available as a 32bit version or only available as such.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    34. Re:Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Better search? I dunno about you, and maybe I cannot find it, but in XP I could search in files for a string. I didn't figure out how to do that in 7 yet.

      Security, as I mentioned, isn't something the average user cares. Never has, never will. Same for faster LAN, few users have LANs (and that that do, like me, have their servers set up in such a way that they respond quickly because the network rarely changes).

      The move from 2k to XP was also one I put off for a long time, agreed. Still, there are a few things that made XP superior to 2k, if nothing else the more complete driver library, better USB support and WiFi support. I kinda cannot see anything like that in 7, where the average user would go and select 7 over XP due to a "must have" feature that he cannot gain with XP.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    35. Re:Why upgrade? by Krneki · · Score: 1

      One more + for WinXP.

      On my old Netbook the battery will last the most on WinXP and I have tried both Win7 and Linux.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    36. Re:Why upgrade? by mea_culpa · · Score: 1

      This also applies to corporate use.
      I service about 70 computers for a few small businesses and found no compelling reason to upgrade most of them other than 'It's the new thing.'
      I use 7 at home and I admit for my use it has more pluses than negatives but these pluses do not increase the utility of my customer's computers. They run some industry specific applications that are fully supported under XP. There is absolutely nothing in the newer versions that will help them use their computers any better for their business.
      One of them asked me to quote them what it would cost to upgrade their entire network to 7 and Office 2010 because a new marketing consultant they hired couldn't stand working with Office 2000 and XP. Even though this company is able to fully utilize this older software. I submitted the $5000+ quote and asked them what they were expecting to gain from it? Many computers would now run slower, maintenance costs will increase, legacy Office templates and Access databases will need revamped or recreated from the ground up, productivity would grind to very low levels as employees reorient themselves to the new nonsensical UI 'improvements.' From a business point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to upgrade. Perhaps small business anyway. I would gladly take the extra work but just wanted to give my honest opinion first.
      Just because something is newer doesn't necessarily mean the older still fully functional and supported capital investments should be tossed out. Microsoft screwed up when they release XP. Their track record prior to it was horrible so upgrading to the latest OS made a lot of sense back then. But with the much improved reliability that need is no longer the case.

      Airplane analogy instead of the typical car:
      Southwest airlines doesn't just junk their decades old 737's just because the newer ones are nicer. Instead they get the maximum ROI possible as long as it meets their business needs. Is it any wonder that this is about the only airline in the industry that performs better financially and with such a high safety track record?

    37. Re:Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The cynic in me would say that they added it to ME as a stopgag because that System Restore was definitely necessary in ME.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    38. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A cynic would say that if it were stopgap in ME, then it would be gone in subsequent releases. It's still there and still useful in Win7.

    39. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While the next big thing would be virtually visiting 'Real worlds' both in our galaxy and far beyond without leaving our swivel rocker chairs through the visible and invisible spectrals of light and exchanging data with alien civilazations, having a portal view of where we are traveling etc.., Microsoft continues with others to offer nothing new or useful for the majority of users, save the corporations' and governments' capabilities, intent on counterintelligence, surveillance and such on its own citizens, but needing to continue the coin. They need to stop forcing upon us these updates that spoil our current systems extorting the need for upgrades.

    40. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose security isn't something you consider very important. An unpatched and unsupported XP system is less of a computer than a honeypot for viruses, malware and botnet uses. If you need a honeypot for security purposes, it is ideal, but if you want to use it for real work, you are setting yourself up for tragedy Of course, if building a botnet is your objective, you are definitely on the right track.

    41. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. They have multiple labels. Pretty much any system setting I ever care to touch is easily findable through search.

      2. That's debatable but I use them. They're kind of like a convenient special-purpose hard link. Files / directories / filesystem links are already a confusing abstraction, and I'd argue the amount of confusion in all cases is in the same order..

      3. Drop "easily" from your sentence and then it's true. It's not an artificial barrier in the sense you are using, even though it could be overcome with sufficient effort. You can put them under a debugger and check for calls to new APIs, and sure enough, they are made. The fact that it is easier to develop against implies that better software will come once XP is dropped.

      4. They could also release a service pack to change Windows XP to Windows 7. The "with little issue" bit just elides so much.

      5. No comment, not familiar with 64 bit XP.

      6. It's hard to argue about perceived performance and it partly depends on hardware. Generally turning off Aero doesn't actually help performance when using explorer itself, and you can measure that, but it could if you are using very old video hardware from the mid-XP era that struggles with Aero in the first place.

    42. Re:Why upgrade? by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Search. Drivers on 64 bit CPUs. Ctrl-shift-n to create a new folder. UAC (privilege escalation without logging out an back in with an admin account).

    43. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? This is modded insightful? You take the most important elements, security and stability, and automatically discount them. Then you ignore all of the Win 7 features and the complete streamlining and simplification of the UI.

      Off the top of my head....

      Random tasks like burning music are now trivial
      OS Updating is streamlined
      Networking and Wireless is hassle-free and has great support
      Excellent 64-bit support
      UI is responsive and performs as good as or better than XP
      Enhanced Security model, very easy to configure to behave like Ubuntu/OS X (password on privileged access)
      Support for full Virtualization of XP as well as compatibility modes
      100% support from games, hardware, software
      100% of latest driver features supported
      Excellent system Stability
      Built-in troubleshooting features work much better (auto-detect and resolve issues)

      It really is much better than XP from a usability perspective.

      If you don't like MS or Windows, that's fine, but you're digging your head in the sand and clinging to the increasingly lame argument that "XP is all anyone ever needed".

      Finally, if you are building a PC in the last 5 years and decided to use XP instead, well, that's just plain ignorant. Modern hardware will have better compatility with Win7 and Win7 will perform as fast or faster due to increasingly mature driver support.

      posting AC due to work policies.

    44. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And frankly Joe average user couldn't care less that he is running a 32 bit OS. It is not like he will be using a ton of processes that need more than 2 GB of RAM.

    45. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would like to continue the argument as to why you would need 64bit. Apart from supporting >3.5GB of RAM it does little different. If I can still read emails and browse the web on my current OS, why upgrade? Basically what improvements would the end-user notice.

      Now I'm a little too young to remember the switch from 16bit to 32bit but people probably made this same argument back then.

    46. Re:Why upgrade? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Actually in the US only 26% use WindowsXP according to gStat. China skews the numbers heavily.

      I am guessing ... without evidence ... that half of the XP users are corporations where the accountants and analysts scream there is no ROI or increase in sales to upgrade to Windows 7 ignoring the added support costs and the other half are poor or unemployed people who are using old computers.

      People are upgrading, but in the great recession if you do not have money you simply can't and it has nothing to do with preference for XP. If it were free to upgrade people would do it. China has nothing to do with preference more than pirated copies of Windows. Nice cheap netbooks and used computers are near the $150 - $250 mark. I do not know anyone outside of slashdot who prefers XP. People at worksites hate it too but use whatever IT blesses.

      There are reasons to upgrade and everyone knows XP is very old including grandmas.

    47. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      Yes, but as someone who requires the use of 64bit applications, it is horribly horribly painful when your 32bit applications don't run.

      I don't care that a lot of my apps are 32bit only. Thats just fine as long as they can run on a 64bit system. But many 32bit apps are broken on XP64, whereas they have no problem on Win7 64bit. Many devices may only have 32bit drivers, but they work fine on Win7 64bit because of how the driver layer was implemented whereas they are completely unusable on XP64.

      If I need any 64bit apps at all, even just one, Win7 is a much much better option than XP.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    48. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      XP64 supposedly uses Win2K3's 64bit layer and anything is supposed to be cross-compatible. In reality however this isn't the case. As another poster mentioned, a lot of apps trigger expensive licensing options on Win2K3 or simply flag themselves as incompatible because it's a server OS.

      Quicktime is a great example. A lot of multimedia authoring applications require or at least highly suggest having it. No version of QT 64bit was ever available for XP64bit, and only certain antiquated 32bit versions will run. If you want to run QT on 64bit Windows, Apple requires it to be Vista or Win7.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    49. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      If you don't need 64bit support, then it doesn't really hurt to have it enabled as long as running 32bit apps isn't compromised (as it was in XP64, but isn't in Vista or Win7).

      If you do need 64bit support (home video editing comes to mind for the consumer, and a lot more apps for pros) then having it will make a huge improvement.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    50. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      Win7 has much better 64bit driver support than Vista. I've seen my share of hardware that has native Win7 64 drivers that had none on XP 64 or Vista, and we're talking hardware that shipped after Vista.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    51. Re:Why upgrade? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      The problem there is very few people care about 64 bit support , unless you are running a server or have a need to use CAD, 3D Modeling, or Database software. The average Joe Random user is not running that kind of software.

      Or video editing, which more and more people are doing now that there are HD video cameras in everything.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    52. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better search? I dunno about you, and maybe I cannot find it, but in XP I could search in files for a string. I didn't figure out how to do that in 7 yet.

      Windows Search does that automatically in 7, unless you're specifically telling it not to index or to search only the filename.

    53. Re:Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Me, I consider security as one of the key features of the system. But I'm one in a million. And that I dumped XP for security concerns long ago will not measure in this statistics.

      Again: This isn't about me, this is about how Joe Randomuser acts. He'll probably get a new OS with his new computer. But he does not have a compelling reason to upgrade away from XP. Security would be a good reason, no doubt about that, but Joe does simply not care about security. Sadly, but he does not. If he did, we'd not see botnets running rampart and the biggest network security concern would not be the OSI layer 8.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    54. Re:Why upgrade? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Again, no doubt about anything you said. But none of these elements will convince Joe to upgrade before he buys his next computer. There is no must-have feature that XP does not offer him so he goes out, buys Win7 and installs it on his old machine. Not to mention that, by now, any old machine Joe might have will probably not be able to run Win7 in a satisfactory way. Let's see your list and let's see how Joe will react.

      Security: Sec...what? What's that? Ohhh, hold that thought, here's something important! Click the monkey to win a buck! *clickclick*
      Burning music: My friend Bob installed this program (long ago, before Win7 was available), and he gave me a list how to use it. By now I can almost do it without the list, so... yeah, would probably be convenient but ... well, nah, I'd have to reinstall everything, that's a hassle.
      OS Updating: You can update the OS?
      Networking/Wireless: Oh, I'll call Bob over when I need to change something 'bout that. He does it and then I needn't touch it anymore anyway.
      64bit support: Whazzat? Oh, ... ok, is there anything not available for my ... whatisit? 32bit, yeah, anything not available for 23bit? No? Then I don't really need that, do I?
      UI responsive: Oh, well, that machine is so old, and I got time, not worth spending the dough. If it blows I just reset the machine.
      Enhanced Security Model: See Security. Joe cares about that almost as much as he can spell it.
      Support for full Virtualization: What'd I need that for? I already got XP!
      100% support from games: Erh... the games I have run on XP, what's the problem? (Well, actually, he might run into problems with some older games. if anyone managed to get Startopia running on 7, please gimme a hint how to accomplish that feat)
      100% of latest driver features: Oh, I don't need that! I don't buy new hardware now, I'll get that with my next PC.
      Excellent Stability: Oh, XP is fairly stable (sure it is, if you had 98 before it... It's all in perspective)
      Built in troubleshooting: No need. I got Bob.

      Quite frankly, these are the answers you'll most likely get from someone like Joe. He doesn't want to spend the money for 7 before he gets a new computer where it's bundled. Simply because the "minor" advantages don't outweigh the cost of the system plus the hassle of installing (and reinstalling everything after Joe managed to blow his system with "update" option beyond repair).

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    55. Re:Why upgrade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The address bar path is fully editable in the Vista/7 explorer, so you clearly haven't used it. Cannot say anything about your problem with the tree as you didn't elaborate on what is supposed to be missing.

  30. stick'n it out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hater's going to hate, but I've still got xp on my two computers, where i work is all 7 though.

    But no one really expects me to upgrade a 1gb pentium D desktop to 7, just not worth it, xp is plenty stable for what I and most people use it for; the web, light gaming, movie's streamed to the TV. i'll wait till 8 then something new.

  31. It works by statsone · · Score: 0

    current machines work fine. When we get new machines, then we will get the current software. My main one is used for graphics work and no problem. Until then, why spend money for new hardware and software to surf the web and do simple tasks?

  32. So by extension... by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 2
    Almost half of all people on-ine (and with no consideration for off-line usage) are still using a decade-old OS. And that's bad why? My fucking Atari 800 blew the doors off of anything that came along for more than a decade and its OS was fucking hard-coded into a 10KB ROM pack (upon which we piggy-backed 4 other selectable 10KB OS .ROMs)

    .
    When an OS -- even from a company you don't like -- does the job it's supposed to do, what's the problem? Of course I like my various *nix installs as long as they do what I need them to do, but if you have to use Windows for anything, XP is the last in a (supported) line which will still more or less do what you tell it to do. You may recall that XP (like everything before it) installs with a basic version of Win3.1.

    1. Re:So by extension... by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. While Windows 7 isn't terrible, XP still does its job, and does it very well, so why does it really matter?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:So by extension... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      XP is the OS that was promised when 95 was delivered. While it still has it's issues, it's successors remain less than compelling upgrades. This is in stark contrast to it's predecessors (3.11, 95, 98).

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:So by extension... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, but if you don't upgrade ... Microsoft won't get to sell you yet another license! Oh noes! Think of the children! So please, be a responsible citizen and fork over your hard-earned cash for our newest, shiniest upgrade, regardless of whether you actually need it or not. And again. And again ... That's a good boy!

    4. Re:So by extension... by Ramble · · Score: 1

      What's the problem? Supporting old technology slows down the adoption of new technology for one but mainly it's the insanely massive security risks associated with XP.

      --
      "Oh boy"
    5. Re:So by extension... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      My fucking Atari 800 blew the doors off of anything that came along for more than a decade

      Macs came out in '84. Amigas debuted in '85. Either you're prone to hyperbole to prove specious points, or you were way, way too into Atari hardware.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:So by extension... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WinXP will continue to get security updates through mid-2014, so how is the difference in risk between it and successors "insanely massive"?

      - T

  33. Re:Bearded GNU Freaks by TENTH+SHOW+JAM · · Score: 1

    Not really a problem for me as I am running Linux on the Cloud\Laptop\Smartphone. The only reason it isn't on my Desktop is because that is mandated by my place of employ. Now hand me back my razor. I like to be clean shaven.

    --
    A sig is placed here
    To display how futile
    English Haiku is
  34. atlanticwenonamays: by wenonamays · · Score: 0

    Spot on with this particular write-up, I truly think this website needs extra consideration. I’ll probably be again to read extra, thanks for that details.Computers still upgrading every day...haizzzzzzzzzt... http://investment.altlanticinternationalpartnership.net/

  35. Internet usage by Dennis+Sheil · · Score: 2
    This is a statistic I watch. Mostly I am curious about Android usage, as well as other mobile usage, versus desktop usage. I'm also interested in desktop Linux usage.

    Alexa shows Wikipedia to be the 7th most popular site on the web. Wikipedia is unique in that it is one of the few top sites not run for profit. Consequently, they allow open traffic analysis of their web traffic to some extent, which I have found very useful. Here is what operating systems hit Wikipedia web sites in June 2011. They have that data for May, April and so forth. I made a chart from the data a few months ago on my blog.

    For June in Wikipedia, XP was 36-37% of traffic. Vista was about 13% of traffic. Windows 7 was 29-30% of traffic. Mac plus iPhone plus iPad was 12% of traffic. Android was 1.4% of traffic, and Ubuntu was 0.5% of traffic.

    1. Re:Internet usage by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Also according to other sites Xp has just 25% marketshare in the US. XP is not as popular as what other slashdotters would have you believe.

      Most users of XP are businesses and people in 3rd world countries who cant afford to have a real non pirated OS. China keeps messing with the statistics and gives the false impression IE 6 and XP are HUGE to developers. Regardless, that they do not browse english websites and live in their own world.

      XP will stay around for decades in these markets while corporations are begining to move to Windows 7 FAST. In 2 years the US marketshare for XP will be well under 10% as a result.

  36. Sad by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    The saddest thing I've read on the Internet this week is not anything about the debt ceiling; it's the fact that Vista has twice as many users as OS X.

    1. Re:Sad by gabebear · · Score: 1

      Well, the numbers they are using are the most skewed numbers you can find... but they aren't far off from reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

  37. Vista isn't bad now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After a few years of fixing bugs and declining memory prices, Vista is now a nice Desktop User Environment.

  38. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by Hsien-Ko · · Score: 1

    My Northwood runs Win98SE fine too. Best Windows FTW

  39. Mac at 5.59% by lseltzer · · Score: 1

    We keep hearing that Mac share is increasing, but I've yet to see any study that shows Mac usage over a few percent. They don't need to control the market to make $Zillions.

    1. Re:Mac at 5.59% by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      no one needs to control the market, just get their slice, greed is the problem, fix that and I will give you a cookie

    2. Re:Mac at 5.59% by Paul1969 · · Score: 1

      These are *worldwide* figures. Apple has very little presence in lots of Asian markets, which are almost entirely Windows and imitation Windows (pirate hardware and software).
      The Apple expansion is happening precisely in the most lucrative markets - the US, Europe, Japan, etc.

  40. Proud XP user here by trawg · · Score: 1

    I'm not even Joe Randomuser; I work at a software development company and work my Windows XP PC hard every day. Then I go home and play games on my Windows XP system at home. When I'm out and about, my Windows XP laptop does the trick.

    I've never had a virus, trojan, or anything. I've followed basic rules - run Windows update, run a virus scanner, don't install foreign objects.

    My PCs are rock solid. I don't want the downtime of upgrading and the hassle of moving to a new environment. They're tools that do exactly what I want and need.

    I'm not clinging to it because out of some sense of nostalgia or anything - it all Just Works and I won't get any benefits from upgrading.

    The only thing that I wish I had that I would get from upgrading to Windows 7 is the ability to do some GPU-accelerated stuff that is not natively supported in Windows XP.

  41. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    a 1.6ghz atom is roughly equivalent to a pentium3 800Mhz. a 2Ghz P4 should have no problem. none of them will be speed demons.. the only issue is ram. if you have less than 1GB, it will swap. turn off the bling and you're fine..

  42. Re:Why upgrade? It's better. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    To the average user, it has eye candy and flashy cool stuff. And it's not bloated and slow like Vista. It's what they should have released 2 years after XP, to compete with Apple. And what they should have put on phones within the next 2 years.

    I have HDMI out to a 42 inch HDTV, and use 7 with WMP for DVDs and MP3s and such. It's refreshing, although annoying since I'm used to XP, and have to use Vista for work. If I could stay on 7 only, I'd be happy enough.

    Keep in mind, I curse Vista daily, and I'm saying 7 is pleasant. It's better, it does what I want, and does it well.

    XP was a kludge, SP1 and 2 were major stability fixes. SP3 was essentially a new OS, with anit-piracy features that freeloaders don't want, as well as better security that was a kludge on top of a kludge. They put it in a blender and shat out Vista, and put everything they learned together to make Windows 7. I say this despite the *years* of productivity I've lost due to reboots, crashes, hangs, corrupt files, and so on since Windows 3.1 / NT 4. It's better.

  43. I'll bet by shoehornjob · · Score: 1

    someone out there is still exploiting buffer over runs etc for win xp machines. Since Microsoft is no longer releasing anything for these machines a very crafty hacker could still exploit this kluge of an operating system. Seriously though 50%??? I figure Microsoft could cut the price of the basic edition of windows 7 in half and upgrade all those xp users. The hardware is the problem of course. But still it's a nice idea. It would get all of those jackass end users off my line at work. They're always talking about " my computer is slow". Me; what os are you running? Them: Windows XP. Me:Ummm 2001 called and it want's it's virus/spyware infested piece of $hit computer back.

    --
    "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
    1. Re:I'll bet by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      if xp is a kludge, then so is win7. if their computers are infected, windows 7 will not save them. it's their usage patterns that need changing.

    2. Re:I'll bet by shoehornjob · · Score: 1

      I totally agree with you about the usage patterns that need to be changed. The lack of basic education is the problem. Regarding the kludge though I'd say that Vista is worse than 7 any day. I would constantly get the blue circle of death when trying to access a file in explorer. Talk about a piece of s$hit.

      --
      "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
  44. MUCH better hardware support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I have this bluetooth USB dongle. In XP its partly supported; in order to really get the most out of it I'd either have to find other software or buy stuff like BlueSoleil for example (it did come with a trimmed down version of BlueSoleil though).

    Win7? Plug it in, wait for the drivers to finish up and use it out of the box.

    And there are much more examples where these came from. In many cases Win7 is nicer on your hardware.

  45. Umm, it's still #1 by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    I mean if you look at the article the break down is as follows XP 49.94%, Win7 27.87%, Vista 9.24%, Other 5.77%, Mac 5.59%, and Linux 0.98%

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:Umm, it's still #1 by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Makes me wonder what's in the 'other' category. Last stats I saw had Windows 2000 at under 1%, and I can't imagine Win9x is much use to anyone these days, so what's the remaining 5.77%? *BSD, Solaris and Haiku probably don't have a combined market share greater than OS X, since that would need each of them to have a larger installed base than Linux. Maybe there are still secretly a lot of Microsoft Bob users.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Umm, it's still #1 by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Windows Server? Like 2008, 2003 and so on? Also "Other" pretty much should include stuff that doesn't identify properly when interrogated, or doesn't identify at all.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:Umm, it's still #1 by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

      I suppose it could be stuff like the Wii and the PS3. (Maybe I scanned the article too quickly but does it say that it's desktop only or what? I'd figure mobile devices would be more than 6% or so.)

      --
      Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  46. News at 11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scientists specifically choose fanatic and scan his brain; find that brain behaves like fanatic. News at 11.

  47. Switching to ReactOS in 2014 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whether it's ready by then or not!

    1. Re:Switching to ReactOS in 2014 by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      sweet.. it'll be like running NT4 again..

    2. Re:Switching to ReactOS in 2014 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ain't ReactOS on par w/ HURD as far as development goes?

      There was a time it would have been great - on those ex MIPS/Alpha boxes for NT, but now, those are too ancient for it. But it would be nice if ReactOS would port to other platforms, like MIPS IV, Alpha 21264, and so on.

      What is the memory requirement goals of ReactOS? Also, is it based on win32, win64, .NET, what?

  48. XP is the best option for most users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please consider this:

    Do you will choose a netbook like this one where I write this (Asus EeePc) with Windows XP Home or one with Windows 7 STARTER? Yes no Home even, all *new* netbooks comes with starter version so I can say I prefer any XP version over that hideous thing that even can't change the wallpaper unless you cough 100 USD. Maybe the netbook cannot survive until 2014 but the license does and chance to movoe to windows 7 then.

    And no, no linux for me unless you have a good replacement for Adobe Flash. (I'm trying Gimp instead of backup Photoshop)

    1. Re:XP is the best option for most users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything wrong with the Linux version of Flash player? I am using it just fine. It's the official version from Adobe.

  49. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by hedwards · · Score: 1

    I'm a fan of AMD's Fusion cores. I've got a dual core Zacate processor clocked at 1.6ghz and it's got more than enough power for things that one typically does. I haven't had a chance to check out the Llano based computers, but I'd guess that they're even better.

    In all honesty, It blows my mother's Atom based computer out of the water, and was significantly cheaper as well.

  50. Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the source of these numbers? Did someone just make them up?

  51. XP? by gsmalleus · · Score: 1

    I am still trying to get the bosses at my company to get rid of our Windows NT4 Computers...

    No seriously, I want those computers to die a horrible horrible death... along with that OS/2 Warp machine I have to support.

  52. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

    Yup, fusion is pretty cool, i have a e350 based mitx board in the garage, hasnt seen much use lately though.

    i'm also considering a fusion based ultraportable (i refuse to call a 11,6" machine a netbook, partly because i dont want to use it as a netbook), the only niggle is that i'm not sure the e350 is up to replacing my dual core Turion for stuff like eclipse and the android emulator, that last one is slow as shit as it is on my turion x2.

    Plus sides would be, better graphics (so some mild on the go gaming), much lower power use, lighter weight etc..

    --
    People, what a bunch of bastards
  53. Re: XP has just 25% in US by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    According to gStat. Most of the XP machines are in China and other other 3rd world countries where the cost of Windows is a good 2 months salary. That doesn't make any sense so people use pirated XP Sp 2 with IE 6.

    Most users are upgrading and I bet you the 26% are mostly corporate users and those who are poor or unemployed in this recession and can't afford a new system.

  54. No ui upgrade since Win95 by Britz · · Score: 1

    Partially for monopoly reasons the computer has not seen any major ui revision since Win95. XP brought the stability to that ui. Maybe because of competition from OO.org (I dunno), the Office division of MS was able to push through a minor overhaul. The ribbon interface for Office 2007. Which finally made a change from Office 95. Now it's 2011 and we are still waiting to see anything on the ui front.

    Though I do believe Microsoft will do something minor in Windows 8, because they want to make it tablet friendly.

    Note that I didn't comment wether or not the ribbon interface is better. Personally I certainly think so, but I didn't want to get into that discussion.

    1. Re:No ui upgrade since Win95 by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I just hope that "making it tablet friendly" doesn't mean "making it unusable on anything but a tablet." Sorry. I've just been burned by game makers taking consoles far too serious and hence making games near unplayable on the PC when they're simply ported roughly, as is the case with most console -> PC ports these days.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  55. operating system by coniefoxdrerss · · Score: 1

    In china most people choose windows 2007 now.

  56. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

    You're underestimating those little Atoms. A Z530 at 1.6GHz is a single core CPU from 2008 and it's about on-par with a Pentium 4 2.5GHz. That's a pretty "old" Atom. Take for example a Atom D510 at 1.6GHz, which is dual core, it is about as fast as a Pentium 4 3.80GHz (which is single-core, granted). Heck it matches about the performance of a Core 2 Duo L7100 at 1.2GHz.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  57. i am online by methuselaparis · · Score: 1

    Is this for real? I wonder what nice inventions they'll come up with next.. http://shawcapitalmanagementonline.com/index/

  58. underestimation by drolli · · Score: 1

    for xp counting the machines on the internet is an underestimation. neither my vm nor the oscilloscopes in the lab nor the network analyser nor the cnc control panel will be ever on the internet.

  59. Windows 7 pre-installed on new computers... by loufoque · · Score: 1

    ... is the only reason Windows XP is receding.

    People that choose what OS to install either install Linux or Windows XP.

  60. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    I'm considering one for a NAS. For ZFS, a 64-bit processor makes a big difference, but a decent amount of RAM makes even more. The Atom boards all have low RAM limits or few SATA ports. For the same price, you seem to be able to get a Fusion board with a similar power consumption. As an added bonus, the Fusion chips have AMD's virtualisation extensions, while Atom doesn't have Intel's, which makes AMD more attractive if I might want to run some VMs on the NAS.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  61. XP is enough by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    WinXP runs every modern browser.
    WinXP runs every modern piece of software.
    WinXP is (now) damn stable.
    WinXP runs not only on my quad-core desktop, but also on the ancient 1.2 GHz Intel box I have sitting over there. Same interface, same management, no new learning curve.

    Joe User: Sure, I keep hearing that "MS stopped supporting XP" but I keep seeing updates, and in any case my system runs fine.

    Windows 7 Home Premium (full) is $200.
    I just bought a great new laptop for $500 - 17" screen, 500g HD, 6 gigs RAM....INCLUDING Win7 home premium.

    So....Really? Is it that *shocking* that people aren't interested in dropping $200 for no increase in function, and for an OS that will immediately render most of their legacy systems obsolete?

    I'll migrate to Win7 as my old systems die, not sooner.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:XP is enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Win7 family (3) update pack is $150. It can be clean installed.
      It runs faster and smoother on 64-bit hardware than 64-bit XP Pro.

      It really depends on how legacy your legacy is.
      The first 64-bit AMD systems came out in 2003.

  62. Your stuck all right. by bobs666 · · Score: 1

    Would switch if it weren't stupid-expensive... You are barking up the wring tree if you want charity licenses. Have you not figured out by now you are getting software from the devil him self. Thats why God sent us Ubuntu/Gnu/Linux. Open office should do everything you need for a Church's office.

    All most all the ideas in Windows 7 where done in free software first. So if you are looking a good looking / good working user interface, Look for free software.

    PS. I am not religious my self. Just trying to put this into his perspective.

    1. Re:Your stuck all right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they require an operating system that can do something simple like play an MP3 on a six-core computer without EVER skipping. I was using an ubuntu-based rescue kit the other day and heaven forbid I wanted to listen to some of my tunes while working on other things. The music kept occasionally skipping/popping until the point where I couldn't stand it and I ripped PulseAudio out of the environment.

      Funny thing, when Pulseaudio was removed, it worked perfectly fine. I can imagine the preacher playing a song for the visitors and having to say "let me go re-launch the music player with pasuspender" when the song starts skipping, causing the singers to miss timing with the music.

  63. No need to reiterate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Beyond the Subject's title.. Its redundant.

  64. MS push for windows 7? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    I am sure i believe it, but maybe 50% legit copies, not including non legit ones.....but when you consider the amount of piracy in china, and their overall population, and that they all use windowsxp there....i have a hard time even thinking that xp is below 70% of the market

  65. Graph Theory 101 by kbolino · · Score: 1

    A path can consist of a single edge, and both endpoints of an edge can be the same vertex.

  66. Why Linux is stuck by DesScorp · · Score: 1

    As a PC retailer who has tried Ubuntu/Mint, Mepis, and PCLOS on the stacks of off lease office PCs that go through the shop I'll be happy to tell you why Linux is stuck at 1%...your driver model sucks! I'd love to be able to offer Linux on my PCs, as most of what my customers do can easily be done on any Web accessing OS, but until you fix the driver model so that the 6 month upgrades don't make the drivers shit themselves? Well I just can't carry your product.

    More than that, on a practical level, the reason Linux won't succeed on a wide scale is the same reason it took off in the first place: an abundance of choice.

    The lifeblood of operating system success is in two parts. You need OEM's to install your system, but more important in the long run is that you need third parties writing apps and drivers for you. So the driver aspect is a part of a larger problem. OEM's and third parties want one standard to support. One desktop, one driver model, one update method, on a slow and steady schedule. Red Hat once had a chance to become the de facto Linux desktop standard, but they abandoned the market just as they were beginning to dominate it.

    Google is doing what other Linux vendors couldn't do, by customizing Linux to their liking and establishing a single standard for drivers, updates, and writing apps. And now we have Android. We may well have a desktop version of this OS soon.

    Just as Apple made BSD a widespread desktop success by imposing its own standards and giving it a completely different branding, so might Linux one day be widespread on the desktop, but under the direction of Google, not Linus Torvalds.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  67. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "good enough" for homework and Facebook a long time ago

    My quadcore Athlon II system with 4gb of ram gets pulled to its knees by facebook at times (and some of the games are even worse - flash ones the worst offenders). Cafe World by Zynga uses up 100% of a core (it isn't multithreaded thankfully) and currently seems to have a bad memory leak leading it to use up more and more ram as its left running. At one stage it was using up 1.6gb of private working memory after about 30 minutes...

  68. Re:Bearded GNU Freaks by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Some GNU Freaks are doing electrolysis/laser to get rid of facial hair.

  69. So why switch? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    Beyond the shiny and Microsoft phasing out support for it, what is new in Windows 7 that XP doesn't have. I mean, OS/2 was supported until a couple of years ago and still did what we wanted it to do.

    Microsoft had promised us WinFS and a host of other things that originally would've made it into XP but now with 8 on the way still has not even a beta implementation. In the mean time much better, faster and smarter file systems have come (ZFS) and gone (Reiser).

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  70. Only for new purchases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are millions of installations that use XP as the operating system for POS and other functions. It will take decades before these are gone or converted to a better solution.

  71. Yup, the Linux driver model is broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I completely agree w/ this. In the past, I'd try installing just about every version of Linux there was - Corel, Mandrake, Caldera, TurboLinux, and quite a number that I don't even remember anymore. Each one of them had to be uninstalled after I tried. Reason? I could never get any of them to recognize my NIC card.

    After a while, I did try Ubuntu on my laptop, and did manage to get online connectivity, but my next problem - getting rid of Windows and installing Ubuntu on a clean hard drive didn't work. I also installed GNUSTEP OS, but there, they did something wierd so that root was not the first user I created (I wanted to have a root, and then separate user accounts for different family members & activities.) But more importantly, that debian based distribution too did not recognize my NIC.

    Ultimately, I ended up using MaximumLinux, which is a clone of RHEL. The NIC worked here, which was fine, but one fine day, some files got corrupted so that system-config-network no longer works, and neither does any KDE or GNOME utility that fixes it. So as long as I was on my old network, I was okay, but the moment I had to move that laptop to another place, I'm stuck, until I get an external HDD to back up my stuff before doing a reformat.

    However, none of the systems I tried recognized my Broadcom WiFi chipset. If 10 years ago I had problems w/ NICs, now I have it w/ WiFis. I need to be able to have that sort of connectivity, but since it's not there, I'm currently not using my Linux laptop, even though I like the KDE apps that came in it. I've not even started on printers and other stuff - the minimum one needs for any laptop is internet connectivity, which is not there in mine, unless I were to re-install Windows on it. I have Vista, but am not buying Windows 7.

    I know that for FOSS, there is the issue of the driver open sources being released. Well, in that case, as the parent said, have a driver model that is 'install once, use for all upgrades'. With Windows, when one moves from XP to Vista to 7, unless a hardware was really old, it wasn't often that it couldn't be supported. But w/ Linux, the moment you update the kernel, you risk breaking your drivers. I found that out the hard way w/ the sound - I had to use one version of ALSA w/ a particular version, but when I upgraded, I had to downgrade the ALSA version I was using for the sound to even work. One suggestion might be to have the drivers written to access the hardware only via the kernel, which might make publishing its sources more palatable to the device companies, and also, assuming that none of the calls made will be obsoleted in subsequent versions of Linux, they would make the drivers survive several generations of upgrades.

    I'd be glad to install Linux, but for that, I do need the drivers and the softwares to be easily installable, and not exile me to dependency city! Also, once installed, I shouldn't risk having to re-install them if I do an OS upgrade - some sort of a driver back-up and update should be an automatic part of a kernel upgrade. I'd even be happy to try out FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, once I've understood the differences b/w them. Some day, even Minix 3 or 4!

  72. Re:An XP-era PC can still run homework and Faceboo by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    hmm.. well I was basing my assumptions on available cpu benchmarks. I was wrong though.. it wasn't a pentium 3 800.. it was a tualtin 1.2Ghz.