Slashdot Mirror
Congress May Permit Robot Calls To Cell Phones
TCPALaw writes "While many hoaxes have circulated in the past about cell phone numbers being opened up to telemarketers, it now may actually happen. A bill, HR 3035 (PDF), has been introduced in Congress, that would create numerous exceptions to the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, which banned autodialed and prerecorded robot calls to cell phone numbers. If passed, HR 3035 would permit a wide range of autodialed and prerecorded calls to cell phones that are currently prohibited, and would preempt practically all state laws providing similar protections. This is being applauded by debt collectors and banks (PDF) ... as if the bailouts weren't enough, now they get to make you pay for their calls to you."
I will send them a bill if they get through, and only pre-approved (i.e. in my phonebook) calls will ring my phone.
I ignore voicemail from everyone.
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Isn't it amazing what a few thousand dollars in campaign contributions will do?
This is why I have Old Glory Robot Insurance. My policy already prevents robots from calling, and in the case one gets through, I'm financially covered.
I already get autodialed/prerecorded robot calls from debt collectors and banks on my cell (they drive me friggin' insane). That's illegal? Can I sue them for say, the amount of my debt?
When I got my cell phone a few years back, I had the misfortune of inheriting the number of a person who did not pay her bills. The debt collectors were calling my cell every hour or two, until I finally convinced them I did not know whom they were calling about.
I'll just track down who the number belongs to and send them a bill - 5 bucks a minute should cover it.
This is why cell phones should be pay to call. Not pay to receive. You have no control over who calls you, therefore it makes no sense to agree to pay for incoming calls. Any plan without free incoming calls is a non-starter for me.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
You have to pay to be called? Someone can rack up your phone bill by repeatedly calling you? That doesn't sound right.
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Because you know that if the house were controller by Democrats, the exact same thing would happen. The two parties are basically one in the same. It's time we send Washington a message, and vote in different third party candidates. We need to not only show Congress that we're willing to vite them out, but actually do it, and keep doing it until we, the people, become the priority in their minds. Not the corporations.
I guess the hundreds of pre-recorded calls I've received over the past decade were illegal?
Do you know who, aside from bill collectors, banks and telemarketers, wants to robo-dial your phone?
Those same congresspeople. For polling, GOTV and of course dirty tricks.
Maybe this will start a push for us to not have to pay for incoming calls.
If it weren't, I'm guessing nobody would do it. But I used to get robocalls at my old business, and it was always very obvious, so I always hung up inside of 2 seconds. So someone must not mind being called, and in fact buy the stuff that's being marketed?
Debt collectors and banks? They shouldn't be robocalling. Those situations are where they have a pre-existing relationship with the person being called, and aren't cold-calling anybody.
Robocalls are the telephone equivalent of spam. Why is it I can put a "No solicitors" sign on my door, but my phone must be subject to cold-calling from telemarketers, solicitations for "charities" and political groups, and any scammer who can operate a telephone? And they want to make it easier to bother lots of people at a time by allowing robocalling?
If anything, every telemarketing call should have to be hand-dialed, etc., no computer assistance. Think of the jobs that would be created.... Do it for the economy.
I wonder how soon the phone companies will work out a deal to let telemarketers call the phone customers, for a fee - because we know how much they care about the customers.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Just set up your phone to forward all unanswered calls to your Congressman's office. If you don't know who is calling its probably going to be spam anyway, and I just don't answer them anyway and just wait for a message.Though, I just wonder if forwarded calls count against your minutes? Maybe Google Voice can set this up for people without a decent smartphone?
With more people using their cell phones primarily and people cutting the landline, you know this was coming.
It was nice while it lasted. At least now, everyone can screen their calls.
A part of the law should be the ability for customers to block unknown numbers automatically.
We don't live in Shouldland.
Businesses increasingly rely on advanced communications technologies to convey timely and important information to consumers. These calls notify consumers about threats such as data breaches and fraud alerts, provide timely notice of flight and service appointment cancellations and drug recalls, and protect consumers against the adverse consequences of failure to make timely payments on an account.
If this is true, and this is the intended purpose of this law, and if it still keeps the telemarketers out, then I wouldn't oppose this change. Then again, I've never been in debt (I am quite poor, but I never go into debt as a matter of principle) so I don't know about the collectors, but since it isn't a problem for me I am not concerned.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
are either trying to reach someone who had my number, pulled it out of thin air when getting credit, or because of my sister, this is the last thing that I want. I use a prepay cell phone (I am a stickler for costs) and unless we adopt a callers pays method of billing with cell phones all I can see is a world of hurt coming out of this.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
It should go the other way. Robocalls should be banned to any phone.
Don't answer the call.
Although the idea behind the *Telephone Consumer Protection Act*, as it is currently, is reasonable, in practice, it does little good. I started to get robo-calls some time ago on my land line from 'Tax Resolution Services'. The number has been on the national do not call register for ages. J. K. Harris and Company were particularly aggressive. Although I told them to put me on their do not call list, asked for a written copy of their do not call policy and did all the right things, they did not stop. Fortunately, I documented it all. Eventually, I took them to Small Claims Court, under the right to private action provision of the *Telephone Consumer Protection Act*. I won the case, along with $1,000 damages, court costs and legal interest. That was several months ago. To date, I have not received a penny. They do not respond to e-mails, certified letters, or telephone calls. I cannot go after their assets, as they seem to rent everything and own nothing. It turns out their head of legal services is only a paralegal, not a lawyer, so I cannot even pursue her for failing to live up to the professional standards of South Carolina Bar Association. So, scumbag telemarketers already have ways of getting around the law. Making life even easier for them would thus be a very bad idea.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Since I don't get enough spam calls as it is. Thanks Congress.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Thank you Mr. Terry for being the acme of your fine party and branch of legislature.
Seriously, have the orbital cannons come online yet?
So over here all the popular plans are paying for minutes used. Doesn't matter if it's incoming or outgoing, just total minutes. This is because we don't have a higher cost to call cell numbers like in Europe where I'm guessing you are, and instead the additional cost falls on the cell phone owner.
I have found the the "beta" spam feature of google voice does a good job of filtering out crap calls. Also, every cell phone that I have used for the past 10 years has had caller ID. I just don't answer calls that I don't recognize. If it's important, they'll leave a voicemail.
-=You might be a geek if your computer is worth more than your car=-
They're gonna PERMIT it??
This already happens, daily!
The Republic no longer functions.
what about using google voice to block unknown callers can it do that yet? My understanding is that it can't, it only kinda sort can and they don't seem to intend to implement it, in fact it used to do this before they purchased it from the original company?
...asking for Sarah Connor. I think it had the wrong number.
I don't see anything in the bill to object to. Telephone soliciting is still prohibited, and if a debt collector is after you I think you have other things to worry about.
In fact, the only scenario I can see as a real problem is when debt collectors rack up charges robo-calling you. Just take every charge off the amount you owe until it's a wash. Or actually pick up the phone and figure out how to deal with your debt, and inform them that you are being charged, and you do not have a prior business relationship as defined in the Communications Act and this is a mobile phone.
Anyone have a better summary?
Personally, I find robocalls to be the most obnoxious thing someone can do. Whenever I get a robocall that gives me the opportunity to actually talk to an individual, I will always give whatever response will get that person to talk to me. My favorite are the one's that ask you to leave your name and number if you would like someone to call you. I always give a fictitious name and my real number (not cellphone). Then when they call back, I tell them that that person just stepped out and should be back in 15 minutes. The second time, they just went to lunch and should be back in 30 minutes. The third time (and I have only gotten this far once), I say the person has left for the day, please try tomorrow.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
they are already exempt from the restriction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocall
Robocalls are made by all political parties in the United States, including but not limited to both the Republican and Democratic parties as well as unaffiliated campaigns, 527 organizations, unions, and individual citizens. Political robocalls are exempt from the United States National Do Not Call Registry. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations prohibit telemarketers from using automated dialers to call cell phone numbers. However, political groups are excluded from the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) definition of telemarketer, thus robocalls from or on behalf of political organizations are still permitted on the federal level.[1]
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
This is exactly why I've kept my landline despite the fact I almost never use it. I keep it around to give to banks and others who need a phone number from me so I don't have to give them my cell number. No way I want telemarketers calling my cell.
Between Google Voice and Cyanogenmod's blacklisting abilities, robodialers will still get "this number is not in service." Suck it, outbound call centers!
I just looked at the bill. It says
‘‘(iv) to any telephone number assigned to a cellular telephone service, specialized mobile radio service, or other radio
common carrier service, or any service for which the called party is charged for the call, unless the call is made for a commer
cial purpose that does not constitute a telephone solicitation;’’.
The problem is that the current law is not enforced. Just in the past few days I got multiple machine dialed calls from someone trying to sell me a Home Security system. Not only was it my cellphone, but the cell number is on the Do Not Call list.
This was introduced by the Republican Congressman from Nebraska. Are people in that state not caring if they get autodialers hitting their cell phones all day?
Just more evidence that Congress does not have the good of the Common People in mind.
Would any regular citizen really want this? Probably not (or very few).
Thanks Congress!
If I don't recognize the caller ID, I don't answer. It really is that simple. Most of these things won't go to voicemail. If they start doing that, there will be more countermeasures.
Hey, how about providing services that we want or need? How about providing them in a friendly and courteous manor, like the local coffee shop? They get more of my money than I want to count. A certain major telecom that telemarketed me back in the 90s? I'm *still* reluctant to ever use their service.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Sponsor Lee Terry (R) and co-sponsor Edolphus Towns (D).
Well, fuck me. Finally something both parties can agree on: screwing the US public.
"now they get to make you pay for their calls to you"
Well, even in the days of landlines, we always paid. Yes, we PAID for our service.
But it was flat-rate for incoming calls.
I've got an unlimited voice plan now, so I can take time to waste these calls and eventually get dropped from the list. But not everyone does I know.
Just remember, landlines always were paying for incoming calls, just not by the minute. Apparently towers are more precious than cables.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo!
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
The biggest source of robo-calls I get at my house are from politicians.
If you're late on your cell phone bill can the cell phone company robo-call you repeatedly and rack up a higher bill. Now that's a smart business plan!!
The easy solution is an Android or iPhone app to automatically hang up on unlisted calls and/or calls not in your phone book. Perhaps even a central phone number black list for known robocall sources. Phone doesn't even need to ring.
Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
capitalist class may vote to allow itself to encroach evermore into your personal life with the harmless premise of offering additional goods and services that you, the consumer, have been questionlessly determined to purchase regardless of what you think.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Another stunning example of Government of the people, for the people and by the people. Silly me, I forget, Corporations are "people".
www.itjerk.com
I think everyone thinks that.
Well... if this is what bipartisanship gets us... maybe I *will* go with the new theme of no-compromise-extremism.
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
Disclaimers: A) I work in the industry that produces automated dialing systems and B) IANAL. That said, let me enlighten you all as to how the technology shifts over the last few years has conflicted with the existing law. Let's say that you have a loan from a bank and quit paying the bill. The bank has your telephone number and is entitled to contact you due to the existing business relationship. Fine so far. Fast forward several years and your old landline telephone number is now soft-routed through Google Voice to your cell phone. Existing law would make that call illegal because you called their cell phone, even though you - in good faith - called what you thought was a landline number. This law, as I understand, would fix that. PS - Nothing to do with "robocalls" other than to explicitly disallow the random or generated numbers lists which some scum use for robocalls.
So, basically the Republicans will give any right to any corporation willing to pay them for it.
And the rest of the world has to deal with spam coming from the USA because you fuckers and your free market refuse to keep any consumer protections because that would stand in the way of corporate profits.
Thanks, fuckers. I hope your children suffer unbearable hardship.
...that both Nebraska and New York or home to some of the more prominent telemarketing companies?
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
This is why everyone gets my Google Voice number now. Robocalling? Right into the blocked callers group you go!
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Last time a robot called me all I heard was the sound of the heavy processor fan-whirling.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I don't give my mobile # to any bank. Once they get their hands on it there is little you can do to stop them. Oh, that and I have been telemarketed before while OVERSEAS and paying $1, $2 or $3/minute for roaming airtime. Even better I used to sell cell phones in the mall back in high school. While showing off my really neat new phone to a customer I got a call from a telemarketer. That didn't sit too well with the customer.
The only reason banks and most other commercial entities need your phone # is to get money from you or try to sell you something else. Once in a blue moon I will get a call from a credit card saying that their theft algorithm was tripped and they want to check up and make sure things are OK. But otherwise I usually have no need to hear from them. I've had my mobile # for years now and everyone that I know uses it, both friends, family and business contacts. If I had to get rid of it that would cause lots of problems.
I have a few VoIP #'s. My local VoIP landline #'s each cost $1.50/mo through Vitelity. For this price you can have a bunch of them and it won't break the bank. I have a "regular" landline VoIP #, a VoIP # that I give to credit cards/banks/other businesses and a fax #. The VoIP # that is for credit cards/banks/other businesses goes straight to a voicemail and I get the voicemails delivered by e-mail. The number is even in a different area code than my regular phone numbers. If I choose to deal with them I can always call back.
You're funny.
The only documented incidents I'm aware of are where Republicans were caught red-handed pulling a slimy stunts like that.
That indicates not just a disrespect for their opponents, but for the whole voting process.
Please feel free to educate us with references to other such incidents by any party.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Perhaps we should all call our Congressman - on their cellphones - and let them know how we feel about the matter....
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Carp! My current number is 867-5310
"Excluding from the restriction equipment that merely stores pre-determined
numbers or that has latent (but unused) capacity to generate random or sequential
numbers."
If I read this correctly, dialing that number I had to have changed +1 is now fair game.
--Jenny
I think it would be very profitable if I created a phone list of all Government Employee phone numbers, and their nuclear family phone numbers to advertise products of an adult nature. Like "Vibrating Salad Dressing". And what's even better is that it would be Windows Root Kit Friendly! Glorious, I can see it now...
Further, if the person that a collector reaches claims to be the owner of the phone number that the collector was trying to reach, and affirms that the person the collector is trying to reach cannot be reached at that phone number, then the collector *MUST NOT* call that number again to try to reach the debtor, and other methods of contact must be utilized..
The shitty slimeball collections agencies will immediately ask if you are Joe Deadbeat. If you say no, they hang up without identifying themselves,and call back later. If you say yes, then you've confirmed to them that that is the correct number for Joe Deadbeat, and they'll continue calling it.
You can put a lien on a bank account.
Well, spam faxes caused me to chuck my fax machine away and robocalls caused me to chuck my landline away, so robocalls to cell phones will probably cause me to chuck my cell phone away - hmm, now what? Skype? Ekiga?
My cell phone has a blacklist. You may call my phone once after that I blacklist and I'll never know you called and you can't leave a message.
If this thing passes, or has any shot of passing, make sure you're the first to code up a whitelist for smartphones. Will allow your contacts to ring through, and dump the rest to a lovely recording.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I wonder if this could be banned solely on the fact even if you don't answer, they are draining a very small, finite resource that could literally be the difference between life and death in places far away from power, landlines, or any other form of help.
Write your House representative. I just did.
Sallie Mae is gonna love this one...
I hope apps like http://mrnumber.com/ get built directly into all mobile OSes.
Honestly, I won't even bother complaining about it, just take the entire issue out of their hands.
I've seen suggestions to adding the "out of service" tones to the beginning of your voicemail prompt. Here's a URL with some information (including a WAV file with the appropriate tones):
Wolfram.org
File a complaint. It takes a while, but they do actually process these. I filed several of them years back and recently received E-mails notifying me that they had taken action. You don't get any money out of it, but it's my understanding that the companies in violation are fined, so filing enough complaints will (hopefully) provide a disincentive to harass people.
My favorite are the one's that ask you to leave your name and number if you would like someone to call you. I always give a fictitious name and my real number (not cellphone). Then when they call back, I tell them that that person just stepped out and should be back in 15 minutes. The second time, they just went to lunch and should be back in 30 minutes. The third time (and I have only gotten this far once), I say the person has left for the day, please try tomorrow.
Is the next step "So and So is on vacation"? If so, prepare a second phone line for yourself as the "resort hotel" and get a good accent going.
the majority of cell phone plans are free-incoming-minutes
That's because prepaid phones aren't on a "plan" per se.
The problem is that the current law is not enforced. Just in the past few days I got multiple machine dialed calls from someone trying to sell me a Home Security system. Not only was it my cellphone, but the cell number is on the Do Not Call list
Contact your state Attorney General. Some of them are really going after robodialers for violating state laws.
Maybe, but the "accurate" number could just as easily be a bank of 10,000 numbers in an autodial pool that never answer when called back and thus unidentifiable to a standard subscriber.
I had a telemarketer calling me for a year and a half. At first it was real people, and I would ask them to put me on the DNC list, which never worked, then they changed to a robocaller, spread to cell phones, and ALWAYS came through with a different number that when called back went to an unidentifiable phone bank. It could have even been a company that did robocalling for many other companies. I reported them each time to the do not call registry and they did not stop calling.
I like that. However, if anyone calls back the fourth time, I will probably either start over at step one, or get on the phone as "so and so" and then ask them to hold on for a moment and put the phone down for five minutes.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
True, the downside is that you're using the big G and they're mining your texts for data like everything else. However, you can pull up your GoogleVoice account in a browser, and send texts back and forth to whomever for free.
At first it was real people, and I would ask them to put me on the DNC list, which never worked
Did you start getting calls from Democrats' campaign organizations after real people mistakenly added you to the Democratic National Committee's contact list instead of a do-not-call list?
Dear [insert elected official's name] - This call is to inform you that we intend to collect on the following:
* On promises you made to fool us into voting for you;
* Our faith in Congress;
* And, our trust, which you obviously no longer deserve.
Please press "1" to continue. If you are unable to do so, this call will repeat every hour, beginning after 8 p.m.
Bark less. Wag more.
I've never been in debt (I am quite poor, but I never go into debt as a matter of principle)
Never as in hyperbole, or never as in never? If the latter, how do people typically buy a place to live or a post-secondary education without going into debt?
I worked at a company that got 8 $11,000 fines for a total of $88,000. They do follow up at donotcall.gov and they do fine.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
When I used to work from home, I had a company robocall me every day at 10AM exactly. I got so tired of it, that I finally listened. They wanted you to call them back and even then they still didn't want to tell me who they were. I finally asked the guy for a website and a number where I could call him back so that I could make sure they weren't phishing. He finally relented and I called him back and said, "Enjoy your $11,000 fine."
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
.... when opening up an account on line or when you want to perform some commercial transaction. This will flood the phone lines of the House of Representatives offices with tons of bullshit calls. Then they will see for themselves how many robo-calls are spammed and how the average consumer has no recourse to stop the madness. Once they feel our pain, they will stop and re-consider these types of bills that make my information to easy to abuse.
And just for further kicks use the phone numbers of other key offices in our government. I wouldn't go out and individually target a senator, congressman, or representative at their homes, because I'm not trying to be vindictive against their own personal privacy, but their offices are fair game.
Here is their website list of phone numbers.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/
and
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=state&Sort=ASC
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
There are some good apps out there that can filter numbers. I use Mr. Number, not too bad, and I don't get a couple annoying phone calls I have put in the list. :-) Straight to VM. Granted you might still get charged for incoming calls.
Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
Let's say I pick up the call. It uses my cell minutes that I pay for. I call BS. And if it goes through we should get together with a robo calling system and call all of the politicians that approved it until their cell phone bills are super expensive and / or their voicemail is constantly filled. Oh wait it would still come back to me to pay for through taxes because I guarantee the politicians don't pay their own cell phone bills. Maybe if these idiots lived like normal people they would see this is a dumb idea.
I guess Sallie Mae finally decided that students who suck at life don't get a free ride ignoring them anymore.
Pity.
Then again, Sallie Mae already robocalls mobiles...
I get regular robo-call on my cell phone. The Caller ID of the number is scrambled or random numbers so they call most likely originates from some place that does not give a fuck about the law.
What we need is a quick way to report these and after a threshold is meet the Air Force can go in a drop 2000 pound bomb on their dumb ass annoying call center.
So, these fucking clowns can't manage to get ANYTHING done that actually matters, but they somehow find time for bullshit like this.
Time for the anybody-but-the-incumbent approach!
I put bad calls into a single contact called "shit list". In Google Voice I block calls from "shit list". Phone doesn't ring, no voicemail.
Only problem is if someone calls the actual phone number and bypasses Google Voice.
Sounds like now is the time to start robo-calling our representatives telling them how much we don't want this. ;-)
Currently, I just use the blacklist feature of my Android phone. It works well - the spammers usually don't have too many numbers to block, and occasionally receiving an undesired call is not a tragedy.
Now I wonder if it would be viable to get an "automatic service" tarpit app for whoever calls.
"If you are calling concerning business, press 1. If you're calling concerning family matters, press 2 and state your business. If you are a friend or colleague, press # and enter your access code."
Robots would quickly get disconnected for talking to the hand (actually, continuous talking while a message is playing could be taken as a hint to disconnect and blacklist). And live telemarketers would sink in the labyrinth of options to press, voice-selections, dead ends, PIN codes and so on. Ah, and they would need to agree to a soul-stealing license they never got to see.
Anyway, a simple voice captcha ("To connect call, press the number three") would get rid of most robot calls. Of course this would still rather be in a plan that doesn't force fees for incoming calls.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I knew people in the US paid for receiving SMS, but you pay for receiving calls, as well?
So awesome. You pay out the ass to have the phone and use it including receiving calls and now they're going to make you pay to receive advertisements. I'm glad the US hasn't over regulated their mobile phones like Europe because then they could have such awesomeness that the poor Europeans can't have.
Anyways any telemarketer, debt collection agency, or political campaign feel free to call Brad Miller and his offices at
(202) 225-3032
(919)836-1313
(336) 574-2909
Hell, use your congressman's phone number for your steal your identity loyalty cards.
What we need: A Skype application that you can download robocalls 1,000 random phones in the DC metro area as a "political petition" asking the listeners who work in Congress to eliminate ALL robocalls. When Washington gets bothered by this stuff they will stop it. I visit DC and let me tell you, they don't get bothered at dinner like the rest of us.
Wait till all the members of congress start getting these annoying calls.
Robocalls -do- leave voicemail. I get tons of it.
Voicemail spam is actually THE major reason I am going to kill my land-line (hear that, FairPoint?).
Sadly, you are right about the parties trying to "close the cell phone loophole". While the bill's primary sponsor is a house gop'er, it is co-sponsored by a NYC democrat.
Telephone soliciting is still prohibited, and if a debt collector is after you I think you have other things to worry about.
That's the same argument as "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about". The premise of the argument is faulty. Debt collectors frequently go after the wrong person. A guy I work for has been getting hammered with calls from debt collectors who have mistaken him for someone else with the same name. Additionally, sometimes collections agents are sent after someone who has a legitimate dispute. Collections agents are not compensated for being scrupulous about whom they harass or how they behave. They are compensated ONLY when they get money for the clients. While I have no issue with anyone taking reasonable and prudent measures to collect debts they are owed that does not mean any and all measures should be permissible.
In fact, the only scenario I can see as a real problem is when debt collectors rack up charges robo-calling you. Just take every charge off the amount you owe until it's a wash.
Why on earth should anyone have to waste their time fighting with the phone company to get charges removed that shouldn't have been there in the first place?
I have experience with this. The "BIG FINE" is a $250 dollar fine and you have to SUE THEM in small claims court to collect. This means hiring an off duty police officer (around $50 bucks) to serve the summons - assuming you can get their address to begin with then paying the court costs to file.
You want a BIG FINE, have them change it to a $25000 dollar fine but $250 bucks isn't worth the hassle.
When I moved I got a new phone number and a got a ton of calls for Mr X who had the number prior to me. As usual, I didn't list my number in the phone book. I explained that Mr X is not here and most of the calls died down. YEARS PASS and I am still getting calls for Mr X - although it is maybe 4-6 a month (some months I'd get a lot more - I think this was when a new collection debt list was published). I become very familiar with the FTC rules regarding collection agencies.
My experience was:
1. Most collection agency people calling you have NO CLUE what the FTC laws and regulations are.
2. Most will not really identify themselves and not give out their address - REQUIRED BY FTC but ignored.
3. Most will tell you their "supervisor" is not available - in some cases they refused to identify the supervisor (FTC violation - they MUST identify themselves, the business, their supervisor and address of business)
4. Many are working off lists they bought and are calling you from their house. These lists are what caused me to get
a lot of calls. Mr X was on them with my number and every time they published and sold a new list to people, I would get
calls. Debt collection is a growing home business...
5. You tell them you aren't this person and NEVER CALL AGAIN and they ignore this (FTC VIOLATION). I got called so
often by some collection agencies, I recognized their voices.
I filed a lot of complaints with the FTC but never heard anything back from them.
Your recourse is to Sue them but as above it isn't worth the time and effort. I was only able to end 95% of the calls by listing my number - this caused the lists to be updated. I still get calls for Mr X but only about 1-2 every few months now not every week or day.
Look, I'm sorry I brought up the debt collection. I understand you don't like getting calls from them, I don't either. Is there anything specific IN THIS BILL that changes how this works?
You can't have your robo-dialer start dialing random numbers and have them hit cell numbers, that's still in here. You can't telemarket to cell phones, that's still in here.
This part of the summary, according to my reading of the bill, is completely made up. While many hoaxes have circulated in the past about cell phone numbers being opened up to telemarketers, it now may actually happen. And there is nothing supporting that assertion other than the text of the bill.
I'm not saying this is a good bill, I just need some actual information if I'm going to talk to my Congress people about it. Right now I have a bad summary.
As an Australian, I still don't understand why you have to pay when someone calls you ..... that is just such a weird bizzare foreign concept it literally makes my head explode.
You PAY when someone else CALLS YOU?
WHAT THE HELL ??
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
We have Representative Lee Terry of Nebraska (R) and Ed Towns (D) of New York to thank for this terrible legislation. Well, at least there's something we can get a bipartisan consensus on: screwing over the American people.
Tell ya what, let's have a contest. Everybody agrees this bill is lousy, so Republicans, try to talk Terry into withdrawing HR 3035, and Democrats, try to talk Towns into doing the same. If you claim that your party is the one that listens to its constituents, here's how to prove it.
I haven't supplied email contact info for them, as it's probably useless to email them about this issue without being able to attach hundred-dollar bills to your email.
See page 3...
8 A person who provides a telephone number as a
9 means of contact evidences consent under this para
10 graph.’’
So don't give your cell number out unless you want that place to call you. Including bill collectors and the like.
Still prohibited ... See page 5 on 'informational calls' like political crap;
13 ‘‘(iv) to any telephone number as
14 signed to a cellular telephone service, spe
15 cialized mobile radio service, or other radio
16 common carrier service, or any service for
17 which the called party is charged for the
18 call, unless the call is made for a commer
19 cial purpose that does not constitute a tele
20 phone solicitation;’’.
So if you are charged for the call - it's prohibited.
By default your phone should not accept any call at all. If you want to accept a call, you should white list it by adding it to your phone number list.
Right now I simulate this by not answering any number that doesn't have a name attached by my phone. If I get more than 3 calls from someone I don't know, I add their number and make their ring tone "Silent."
All I am asking is for phones to blacklist every phone number and only white list numbers on the list of numbers in the phone.
Bastards! I just e-mailed my congressman. But he's a Republican, so he'll probably just give a sinister laugh and use a $100 bill to light a Cuban cigar.
But seriously, these right-wingers are starting to act like cartoon villains. "Heh heh heh, how can I fuck over my constituents today? Ah hah! Schools! I know, I'll say teachers make too much money, and say we can't afford them. Muahahahaha! Keep 'em stupid, I say. Then they won't know I'm fucking them over! Ha! And I'll blame it all on someone else..."
They pass this bill then they better pass a bill to have our cell plans lowered quite a bit. If they do that then im fine with these asshole calling.
There's no way not to have "pay to receive" if you're roaming internationally. A call connected on international roaming and then transferred to voicemail costs 2 roaming minutes. On AT&T, if you're roaming in south america each minute is 1$.
Bye bye international roaming.
I get a robot call every time the company that owns the house i rent makes a repair. They present me with some questions about how happy i am with the repairs, on a scale from 1 - 9. Never heard of debt-collectors doing that around here.
But you can block all telemarketing calls to your number here in this country, and at the end of every call they have to tell you how to block it. That helps :)
At my current address, I get a lot of mail that's aimed at the previous occupant of the apartment.
Also, the cable company took a couple extra days to hook up my Internet because the address was flagged due to the previous occupant's issues.
I've seen Dad get mail for a deadbeat relative occasionally as well.
It _is_ still a problem with phone number reuse though. Annoyed one of Mom's friends once. I already had a cell, so I avoided that issue on my personal phone, but my office phone got a lot of calls looking for the previous person with that number for what seemed like non-debt reasons. I simply said that the person is not at the number anymore.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Cell phones? Who uses cell phones for calls anymore?
Since telemarketers have increasingly been calling my cell phone and not having similar functionality for it, I installed an Android call blocker. Anyone not on my contacts list goes directly to voicemail. Not quite as nice, but problem solved.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I did voice support for a company that installed a 900 number some years ago. We had to ask the user if they accepted our charges and then dial a code to start billing them. I could do this with an asterisk server, play a recorded message stating the terms of billing and instruct them to press 1 to decline and 2 to accept, send a tone to start billing if they accept and ring them through to my main number. That would sort that out quite handily!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Cash? If I have them, I spend them.
You can't pay cash for things that need to be shipped, and a lot of vending machines won't take large bills. Pretty much the only places I can use cash are the city bus's farebox and the grocery store because, say, NewEgg and Monoprice offer much lower prices on many products than Best Buy.
If I need them I use an ATM
ATMs charge $2.50 to withdraw money from an account at another bank even if the other bank doesn't charge the typical $2.50 to have money withdrawn at another bank's ATM.
Checks? I cannot remember the last time I saw one
Relatives write me checks fairly regularly. How else are monetary gifts sent through the mail without the $3 to $6 service fee for a prepaid Visa card? It's unwise to mail cash. Furthermore, my last employer didn't offer direct deposit.
It might be a small minority, but some of us are searching for jobs and applying at many places. Any phonecall could be a potential employer - we need to show that we're available and answer right away. Some recruiters will get so many applications that they won't bother leaving a message on a voicemail.
This. I had been applying for jobs a few months ago, heard nothing for a few weeks, and then suddenly got several calls for interviews. The first call I received, I picked up and heard a guy with an Indian accent. My first thought was that this guy was a telemarketer. I was *very* close to telling him I wasn't interested and hanging up when I realized that he was asking me to set up an interview.
I disconnected my landline permanently because of incessant telemarketing and went to cell-only. Looks like I might now need to change to VOIP only, via cell.
I went VoIP last summer, a few months before the November elections here in the U.S. I set up a voice menu: "Friends and people with whom we do business, press 1. To leave a message, press 2. Robocallers and telemarketers, we have a specific digit for you..." There is no timeout to leave a message-- the caller has to press a button. If they don't, the menu repeats once, then disconnects.
This strategy eliminated approximately a dozen political robocallers a day in the run-up to the election! Even today it blocks about ten telemarketers a week. They just won't press a button.
I don't know if it's still this way, but in Brazil the caller paid cellphone charges for calling a mobile number.
Actually I think the US is only country in the world where the callee has to pay for a call. In every other country it is initiator-pays principle.
Well, unless you are roaming. Then the callee has to pay the roaming charges.
The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India has recently introduced a rule that prohibits anyone from sending more than 100 SMSes a day, to counter telemarketers who keep spamming users. Perhaps a similar regulation against robocallers will help.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
just thinking aloud (ok, typing thoughts in public)
what about monetizing the caller relationship? to wit:
when i make a call to a new number i must pay (5 to 25 for example) to that account--automatically managed by my carrier....yes the recipient of the call actually gets credited the cash. likewise, when/if the caller wishes to return the call he must pay back the same fee. except for a small (20%) transaction fee, the whole expense is nearly a wash for mutually beneficial callers.
to repeat, this is a relationship fee. once the relationship has been established (between two phone numbers) there are no further transactions.
without having put too much thought into this, it seems for desired relationships the transactions would all cancel out except for the transaction fees. if micropayents of 1-5 are possible now (which i haven't researched) then everyone would be out $1-5/100 numbers registered.
there's appears to be plenty of incentive for the carriers to cash in on millions upon millions of relationship transactions.
desired relationship fees cancel one another out
spam is reduced by making robot calls extraordinarily expensive (yes, the relationship fee is charged just to ring the number);
and, if someone does have the budget to make these calls, we the advertised/spammed get paid for the trouble
any drawbacks aside from the nuisance of having to 'register' your new relationships (which would be largely invisible)?
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
Taxes do not have to be raised. We could decide to adhere to the Constitution instead.
"The Constitution, the WHOLE Constitution, and nothing but the CONSTITUTION."