Microsoft To Offer Flight For Free This Spring

hypnosec writes "Microsoft's Flight Simulator series, which was in dormant state until now, will see a re-launch this spring and that too for free. The name of this series will be simply Flight, and players will have free access to the digital sky with this simulator. In other words, it will be available as a free download; however, the user would need to buy additional content to enhance their experience. The content that can be purchased includes aircraft as well as new environments. Microsoft states that the most amazing part of this game is the user can experience some real life locations like Big Island of Hawaii along with 'region-specific weather patterns, foliage, terrain and landmarks.'" [Video demo here.] I'd like to know where the ESRB finds "crude humor" or "mild violence" in there.

Comments

I got my beta invite yesterday

[DCTech]

And I have to say I'm really impressed with the game. The free model seems great too, especially considering that there has always been a huge market place towards Flight Simulator aircrafts, scenery etc. Maybe they will work out some deals with third party developers too. But as I'm under NDA I wont say too much, but you can sign up for beta here. I suggest you do!

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[TheRaven64]

The free model seems great too

Nope, there's an article just a few down saying that this model is broken, and since it was on Slashdot it must be true!

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[DCTech]

What about if you stopped following my posts and actually contributed to the discussion like I do? I have no idea why someone would upmod your off-topic post and down-mod my on-topic opinion, but oh well.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Richard_at_work]

Oh look, another fucktard claiming "Shill! Shill!" against an informative post, just because they don't like MS! How unusual...

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[g0bshiTe]

Actually MS has always had some of the best flight sims out there. I've been a fan of MS flight sims since the days when Combat Flight Simulator and the MSN Gaming Zone reigned supreme. The bad thing is my current computer just can't handle flight since X was released.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[mwvdlee]

Usually I just look at the post history of somebody to see if they have some sort of bias.
You might not want to do that in this case.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[capnkr]

If, as stated @ 0:58 in the video, they have that "serene cityscape" of Honolulu "on the Big Island" - yep, it's broken... :)

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[neonKow]

The moderation system is only meant to rate POSTS directly, not users. Even if he IS a shill, his first post is useful and relevant to this thread and your replies are annoying. Let the Karma system do its job and stop spamming up the place.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Missing.Matter]

Actually the people crying shill in anonymous accounts about anyone with a dissenting opinion are becoming a regular pain in the ass. Why aren't you posting on your account?

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Richard_at_work]

Am I free then to point out thousands of accounts that seem to be shills for Linux, Gnu, RMS etc etc?

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Missing.Matter]

No... that was a contribution. It was on topic and relevent, contained information someone interested in this flight simulator might find interesting (a link to the beta signup) and an opinion about the quality of the game. The only problem you have with this post is that it is positive toward a company you don't like.

You are the one getting argumentative, you are the one derailing the conversation, you are the one who is adding exactly 0 value to this discussion, and your stance boils down to an ad hominem attack. You look absolutely petty. So even if this person is being paid to say what he's saying, what you're doing is much much worse.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank heavens, some truth and intelligence here!

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[wzinc]

This game would be great as an MMO, where you could fly with others. I wonder if a "serious" MMO, where you're actually logging hours would do well. How would kids messing with people actually using it as a simulator work? Play servers and serious servers, where you'll be booted if you mess around?

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

NO they haven't. They've had some of the best looking visuals but their simulation part has always been - wanting. X-Plane has historically been the opposite. Meaning, X-Plane has historically lacked in visuals but offered superb simulation. Since X-Plane 9, it has generally met or beat MS in both visuals and simulation. About the only thing MS' offering beat X-Plane at has been some advanced avionics, such as Garmin 430 and 530, so on and so on.

In a nut shell, if you really want a simulation, MS has never been much. If you want pretty visuals, MS has always been worth looking at. If you want both, these days, X-Plane is the only game in town.

And in case you're wondering, when professionals want a low cost flight sim for real aircraft research and development, they reach for X-Plane too. MS' offering is never even considered simply because the flight models are laughable. X-Plane even has an FAA certified variant.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Missing.Matter]

What? I'm attacking the AC. Not the OP. Did you miss the trail?

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Shh! Don't tell them about me!

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

you can, but you'll probably be downmodded and labeled yourself. the general mental-health and maturity level of the slashdot massive seems to be only slightly better than that exhibited by 4chan users.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I groaned. Narration fail. At least the scenes depicted were actually all over the state. I'm not a flight sim player, in general, but I want this to see if I can buzz the schools I went to. I doubt my house would even show up on the ground texture, but that'd be fun, too.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[tnk1]

Should be fairly easy. The only way to really troll anyone is to cause air-to-air collisions or maybe crash into parked planes. Plain old crashes don't hurt anyone else, so they should be able to do that as much as they want. So all you need to do is log collisions and then have a ruleset that you can make a determination of who was at fault and then "suspend" their Virtual pilot's license for increasing amounts of time if they are at fault. That or you simply make air-to-air collisions impossible with other player planes and only NPC planes can be crashed into.

I was thinking an MMO could be pretty fun for the right people. You have quests and achievements to fly into rough airstrips to deliver cargo to remote places and you can meet up in a bar somewhere to show off and swap stories and have your planes out for show with any mods and paint jobs to indicate your achievements. Ultimately, that's basically what happens in WoW when people raid and then run around the cities showing off their gear.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[jandrese]

Amazingly enough, people already do this, albeit not with Microsoft Flight Simulator. X-Plane pilots join up with virtual air traffic controllers to efficiently run the airspace in their virtual world. X-Plane is a pretty hardcore package though that appeals to a different set of people than Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[cvtan]

Mahalo for pointing out that Honolulu is not on the Big Island. Fun place to visit, but it's hardly serene".

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[LordLimecat]

How can you shill for Gnu or RMS, doesnt shilling mean you get money for it?

Just saying...

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[galaad2]

oh ${deity} ... yet another silverlight - infected steaming piece of ***p

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Missing.Matter]

Why is that the worst part of it? I'd say a fanatical zealotry and an unwillingness to engage dissenting opinion is much worse. At least the shills provide rational, well thought out aruments and rebuttals.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Richard_at_work]

Uhm, that's the point...

No evidence one way or the other, just accusations thrown quite wildly. You can't say anything positive about MS these days without risking a "shill!" label.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh* Good GOD, one of THESE types. If I dug through your post history, would I find a vast array of smug +5 posts arguing* about the exact, literal, tweaked-to-be-self-serving definitions of "steal" and "pirate", too?

*: I suppose "arguing" is too strong a word here. "Shouting into the echo chamber" is far more accurate, but isn't nearly as succinct.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Richard_at_work]

So posting informative, on topic and well presented posts is "manipulating the system" now?

In that case, fuck that, I don't want to be part of any of your systems.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Applekid]

Except you don't contribute. You shill. Then when you are found out, you create a new account and return to shill.

How is it a shill when it's a post with a link to a game that's discussed in TFS?

Maybe if the story was "The Death of Flight Simulators" and the frist post was "Oh, hay, no it isn't dead, check out this link", but I think your shill detection sensors are dialed in a little too sensitive.

I personally stopped playing flight sims in the early 90s and just seemed to forget they exist at all. I might actually try it out if it's free and the paid bonuses aren't obnoxiously staring me in the face every 2 minutes like other "free" games.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[galaad2]

p.s. i'm talking about their web site, it's almost completely unusable without silverlight :(

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

X-Plane FTW. MSFS is great for the crowd that flies around looking at the outside of their planes and taking screenshots. X-plane is great for the more hardcore simulation crowd (all 4 of them, I guess).

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words: "Please spend your time developing free stuff using only technologies I approve of"

What a fucking prick you are ..

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Rary]

I doubt my house would even show up on the ground texture, but that'd be fun, too.

I never played the last version of Flight Sim, but it seems to me that for at least a handful of cities, they used satellite (or maybe just aerial) photos of the cities for ground texture, so if your city happens to be one of those, then yes, your house would be visible.

Of course, photorealistic cities are probably among the items you would have to purchase for the new Flight.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Sponge Bath]

IE saved the web? Really? Wow ...

Sure, by stagnating and spurring innovation in other browsers. Sing along: Here it comes to save the day...

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Fight isn't Flight Simulator per-se. MS sold the Flight Simulator franchise to Lockheed Martin, Flight is a re-design from the ground up.

http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/fly-wire/goodbye-flight-simulator-hello-microsoft-flight

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

IE saved the web? Really? Wow ...

Sure, by stagnating and spurring innovation in other browsers. Sing along: Here it comes to save the day...

You ever heard of XMLHttpRequest?

It was invented by Microsoft.

Sorry but Microsoft has a lot of great engineers working on their projects as well, including IE.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[h5inz]

There is a general guideline to not to respond to AC trolls but I believe that I have to defend what in my opinion is the spirit of Slashdot. So what if he likes a product published by Microsoft?
1. It is his opinion.
2. There are also good products published by Microsoft. Their work is often quite impressive - Look at white papers coming out from Microsoft Research.
3. Even if he worked for Microsoft, then maybe he could sometimes afford to little bit promote the products associated with him. People working at NASA post about their projects sometimes. This is Slashdot, shouldn't be news to you that most of the people here work for technology companies.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[bemymonkey]

Thanks for the link dude. :)

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Whine if you want about astroturf, When it is informative, such as including the link to the beta, which was the first thing i was wondering when i saw the article, I dont even care. Its not astroturf for the sake of astroturf. Not that I wouldnt have found the link myself but its convenient to be able to just open in another tag. Thanks DCTech

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[ah.clem]

This is quite common; I have been doing it for many years on VATSIM (ATC Simulator) and flying with a virtual airline (DCA). It is a lot of fun if you are really into simulation (not games). For radio comms, Teamspeak is one of the popular voice systems. Realtime weather is also available once you log into the VATSIM servers. You do have to know your stuff, but the VATSIM folks are really pretty helpful and don't mind if you keep your plane parked for a few hours and just listen to the chatter to get an idea how to communicate properly. All of this is free to use but you have to fly responsibly or get bounced. I have never had a problem with griefers on VATSIM, probably because of the time commitment it takes to do a realistic simulation. We fly DC-3 aircraft; it is pretty amazing to do WW II re-enactments of major air ops and be in the middle of a dozen or so other C-47s while dodging flak on the way to drop zones. We have some actual pilots in the group, some retired, and some that can't make the medical. Yeah, it's incredibly geeky, but it's also a lot of fun. And it's all free; we all put time into creating historic flights/designing the environment we fly into/over and try to make it as historically accurate as possible.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[roc97007]

There may have been shills in the past, but I have to agree, that one was on topic.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[nschubach]

I've been somewhat passively following this ordeal for about a month (maybe longer) now. Personally, I think if someone is constantly changing account names and trying to game the system, it's a clear violation of the "spirit of Slashdot" to begin with... so you are arguing with an AC who pointed this out. (Articulate are not.)

Main Points:
First post is well known to be the premium spot. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they get the most views.
He/they regularly changes accounts because they want to keep good karma so people read the posts. (I can't seem to find the post where they stated it, mainly because I don't remember which account it was posted under and I didn't keep the link. [didn't find it that important until now...])
They get first post on Google/Android stories and Microsoft stories. Always with the same bias. (Usually "selling" something great about Microsoft either way...)

Side Points:
There are companies called "Reputation management" companies that specifically try to game online systems to try to steer opinion.
Slashdot's Karma system is not flawless and can be exploited (Hell, everyone knows about sock puppets.)
I personally don't like to be played.
I can't help but watch this train wreck.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[roc97007]

Just goes to show, there are single-position people on all sides of an argument. The converse (that everyone who doesn't like M$ would do the same thing) is not necessarily true -- I personally detest Microsoft, but am happy to say that the original post was obviously relevant.

And I'm actually somewhat interested in downloading the product when it's available. It'd give me a use for the joystick, gathering dust under the desk.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[roc97007]

No.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[LordLimecat]

Actually, I usually argue that the definitions of steal and pirate are irrelevant, and people arguing about it usually are trying to justify their own selfish desires.

Shill has a pretty specific meaning, and if youre not getting paid, youre just a fanboy. Shill implies that youre a paid goon of some faceless corp whose role is to drum up support for that corp.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

This has been done in MSFS for over 10 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Air_Traffic_Simulation_Network

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[the_bard17]

The flight models in X-Plane have been better due to Laminar Research's approach; MSFS has traditionally used look-up tables for aircraft modelling, whereas X-Plane uses finite element analysis. Even with FEA, though, Garbage In Garbage Out applies.

Furthermore, XP is packaged with a variety of tools to create and manage aircraft models. Blender and GIMP can be used to enhance their visual modelling. There's a "free as in beer" world editor. Put it all together and the FS community can put together content for X-Plane.

There's a lot of controversy being generated over at the AVSIM forums right now, due to rumors stating that there will limited opportunity for third parties to create (and distribute, free or otherwise) content for MS Flight. It's my belief that community support is what makes a flight simulator really shine. If MS has killed or maimed that community support for Flight, I'm not sure it'll go anywhere.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[pacapaca]

People absolutely do this with MS flight simulator. Third party modules (Squawkbox and FSInn) connect to networks of ATC/pilots on VATSIM or IVAO (there may be others), and I believe the same network can be used by X-Plane too. I have been an avid FS pilot since FS98 days and it encouraged me to get my private license and instrument rating. It was originally my preferred career goal to become an airline pilot, but then I came to my senses and majored in CS instead!

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Took 30 seconds for Firefox on OS X to stop the "spinning wheel of death", only to tell me I need Silverlight. How's this better than Java again?

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually they already do this with Microsoft Flight Simulator as well. Look up VATSIM for virtual ATC, and look into MFSF multiplayer servers as well as multiplayer fly-in events.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

If he is a shill, and most of his posts are not similarly informative, his karma balance will be negative.

If, in fact, most of his posts are informative, then he is meaningfully contributing to this discussion, so he deserves to have mod points / karma accordingly, regardless of whether he is paid to compose those informative posts or not.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[bennomatic]

I'd say a fanatical zealotry and an unwillingness to engage dissenting opinion is much worse.

This.

At least the shills provide rational, well thought out aruments and rebuttals.

Not so much this. A real shill regurgitates corporate marketing talking points as if they were his/her own opinion. People with biases or zealotry are sometimes lumped in with shills, but they're not the same. Anyway, the point being that if all you can do is regurgitate what you're paid to say, then it is the same as refusing to engage in dissenting opinion.

Lots of people straddle the line, and based on your stance, you might choose to believe they are one or the other. Consider the following names: John Gruber, Paul Thurrott, Richard M. Stallman. I was also going to include John C. Dvorak, but I'd call him more of a bigot than a shill or zealot; all he can do is talk about how wrong everything is. He's like a tech version of Andy Rooney, except for the fact that Rooney's codgerism was often charming, sometimes informative.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[bennomatic]

Are you defending MS shills? SHILL!

(could I be any more shrill?)

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[the_bard17]

Check out VATSIM sometime. It's already an "MMO" of virtual pilots flying together, along with virtual Air Traffic Controllers. VATSIM takes it seriously, too, trying to be as professional as can be (pilots and ATC).

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[the_bard17]

FSX has plug-ins for VATSIM and IVAO, just like X-Plane. Furthermore, FSX and X-Plane pilots can see and interact with each other via the virtual environment, so it could be considered platform independent. Runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux, so it's *that* platform independent, too.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

You are looking at Hilo on the Big Island at 0:38 though

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

And I have to say I'm really impressed with the game. The free model seems great too, especially considering that there has always been a huge market place towards Flight Simulator aircrafts, scenery etc. Maybe they will work out some deals with third party developers too. But as I'm under NDA I wont say too much, but you can sign up for beta here. I suggest you do!

I switched to X-Plane after FSX was released. Call me old-style but installing several gigs of accurate terrane beats having to buy add-ons from developers. The flight model and customization is great, too. Not that I'm bashing FS (or Flight), but I think MS has a way to go yet.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[fnj]

Guess the ass end of the Microsoft dinosaur hasn't even got the word yet that the decision making center of Microsoft (I won't call it a brain) has already written off Silverlight.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[fnj]

What? I'm attacking the AC. Not the OP. Did you miss the trail?

It's the current shitty slashdot design that just completely disappears low scoring parts of the hierarchy without a trace so you can't tell who a post is referring to. Depending on their preferences, one user will see the correct parent and another will not. So we're reduced to putting in stupid blockquotes so everyone can see who we're replying to.

I had to click "Parent" to verify that you were in fact replying to some invisible coward.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

Use a real OS that doesn't freeze every-time a plugin is missing.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

This.

No, that. That. This. This. That. That.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[bcmm]

For those who don't want to go through the comments themselves: DCTech started posting two days ago and has criticised Firefox, Chrome and Apple. No criticism of Microsoft; in fact IE saved the web and "IE9 is a completely good browser" today (CSS is overrated).

He also persistantly uses what looks like Reddit speak. We "mod posts up", not "up-mod posts".

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

and an opinion about the quality of the game

a paid opinion, not an objective opinion. That makes the post spam, and not a useful addition to the discussion.

You are the one getting argumentative, you are the one derailing the conversation, you are the one who is adding exactly 0 value to this discussion, and your stance boils down to an ad hominem attack. You look absolutely petty. So even if this person is being paid to say what he's saying, what you're doing is much much worse.

You are the one being dishonest, deliberately conflating unsolicited paid commercials with objective discussion. The two are not even remotely the same and the fact that you see fit to treat them as the same shows you are not an honest broker.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[coolmadsi]

So we're reduced to putting in stupid blockquotes so everyone can see who we're replying to.

Using quotes is particuarly handy for meta-moderation, where you are given a random selection of comments, all not within their original context. Quotes somewhat helps this as you can see what is being replied to without having to hunt it down as it can be relevant.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to me the usefulness of post to a discussion should be decided by the community. Let's see what the community has to say: Posts for DCTech: +5 informative +4 insightful +5 insightful +3 insightful +2 Informative Posts against DCTech -1 Troll -1 Troll -1 Offtopic Looks like you should probably just shut up.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[kestasjk]

Oh you're in trouble now..

Microsoft Flight – Terms of Use and Nondisclosure Agreement
...
3. Do not describe any part of the beta software on any venue except the official Flight Beta Connect website.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sorry but Microsoft has a lot of great engineers working on their projects as well, including IE."

Apologize all you want but it doesn't change the fact that if you work for Microsoft many of your contributions are being used anticompetitively.

Truly great engineers, in more than just a talented sense, should feel pretty damned sick that all their work goes to strengthen one corporation that frequently resorts to intellectual property thuggery.

Re:I got my beta invite yesterday

[bennomatic]

The other thing!

Ywin towers option?

[Eunuchswear]

You know, for historical re-enactment?

Re:Ywin towers option?

[Eunuchswear]

Yecond Psot!

Re:Ywin towers option?

[mwvdlee]

As an airfield?

Too soon?

* Planes and runways not included

[elrous0]

the user would need to buy additional content to enhance their experience. The content that can be purchased includes aircraft as well as new environments

Flap your arms all you want, cowboy, you're not leaving the ground.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[SJHillman]

Microsoft Flight without any add-ons would be better known as Microsoft Walk.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[g0bshiTe]

MS flight sims have always been vastly scalable. You could easily import your own stuff, unless they have removed that ability.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Flight without any add-ons would be better known as Microsoft Walk.

Microsoft Bob is their sailing simulator without any add-ons.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[shutdown -p now]

Actually, it's Microsoft Lookaround. Walk is an in-app purchase. ~

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[Chicken_Kickers]

Actually, this idea is very appealing to me. Model 3d buildings into the game and I can go for a walkabout in New York, Cairo, Shanghai. Maybe be a virtual tourist fly in virtual plane in a virtual airline that is flown by someone else etc.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[SJHillman]

But then you'd need virtual TSA grunts to do virtual gropes after you remove your virtual shoes.

Re:* Planes and runways not included

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it would really be Microsoft Airshow. You get to show up and watch somebody else fly (while they happen to be near the airport). Maybe you can borrow the Obligatory Rusty Suburban from the FBO and try to chase the planes from down on the ground.

I prefer the old model...

[GameboyRMH]

...where you bought the game and then picked up community-created addons for free.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Garybaldy]

Kind of like back in the day. When the advantage of running your own game server was all the aftermarket mods.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[DCTech]

...where you bought the game and then picked up community-created addons for free.

Those community-created addons weren't free. They cost a large amount of money, but people still loved them. There's MANY large sites that cater to that market, just search in google.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[0123456]

Those community-created addons weren't free. They cost a large amount of money, but people still loved them.

That's odd. My FS2004 installation is 36GB and I only ever paid for one aircraft add-on... the rest of those gigabytes were all free addons.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[GameboyRMH]

MS is clearly trying to turn MSFS into a walled garden they can milk. This is the structure of a "freemium" MMO they're emulating.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[GameboyRMH]

Wow, I downloaded a shitload of addons (all free) but didn't get my MSFS2k install anywwhere near 10GB 8-(

Still want to get it running in a VM, I had such a HUGE amount of mods on that install...

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Ogive17]

My boss still flies 4-5 nights a week. He says that while there are plenty of free content out there, the most realistic planes cost a small fee.

Basically you get what you pay for...

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, my first thought of the summary was wondering what would be our method of flying: Glider, Wright Brother's plane or flapping our arms furiously.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[million_monkeys]

Hopefully they'll do both. The other big flight sim program, X-Plane, has both community created free addons and commercial addons at additional cost from third parties. There's a big community around that and it adds a lot to the program. As people might expect, the stuff you pay for is usually better quality, althrough there is some really great free stuff out there.

It'd be nice if Microsoft encourages others to make content and provides tools to help with that. But I'm not sure that's part of their business model for this release.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[0123456]

Wow, I downloaded a shitload of addons (all free) but didn't get my MSFS2k install anywwhere near 10GB 8-(

If I remember correctly, that 36GB includes high-res terrain data for the whole planet, and most of the scheduled airline flights.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[GameboyRMH]

I guess you'll have to start out by flapping your arms furiously and you unlock a Wright plane when you reach Level 5.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[MBGMorden]

I wouldn't mind so much for something like this. There are only a few simulated aircraft I'd like to fly, so if I could get those for cheap then I say no problem - I'll pay the few $$$. Better to let it be focused on the stuff that I actually want to do rather than pay a huge lump sum to get a bunch of stuff I have no interest in.

Basically, the main plane I want is the Piper J3 Cub. Older stuff like a the Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Aeronca Champ, etc, would all be nice too. Basically the stuff I'd actually want to fly in real life (which I currently can't - I have my PP-ASEL but can't get my medical renewed due to some issues - simulation is a good substitute).

Re:I prefer the old model...

[suprcvic]

Quality community-created addons always seemed few and far between. Sure, they were there, but by and large they sucked.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as someone who owns both the Microsoft simulator and X-plane, and has logged time in real aircraft albeit only single engine, X-plane has it all over the Microsoft sim in terms of flight model. The Microsoft simulator is great, but it's more of a game-oriented experience, while X-plane is more oriented towards realism. Neither has a perfect flight model of course; there are limitations in what you can do in a PC sim.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Phaedrus420]

Flightgear has the Cub. The sim is free. The plane is free. The terrain is free, and based on the real world. I don't know which of those other planes are included, but I will say that the Wright Flyer is a bit of a challenge.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Anonymous Coward]

Flight SIM + Ship SIM + Train SIM + Truck SIM + Trade SIM + War SIM. Add a few Bitcoins and stir well. /silly

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't find your email, but if your medical has expired, as opposed to being denied, then you can do day-VFR in those craft as a Sport Pilot.
I'm in that boat myself - second kidney stone meant a MRI was required each year to prove I didn't have any latent kidney stones. That was pretty expensive, so I just got one MRI to prove all was clear, and let the medical expire. I can qualify to fly a local Cub with just an annual review and a driver's license.

Rumor has it that work is underway to open up the recreational parts of PP-ASEL to self-certifying instead of a formal medical.

If you have questions about this, I recommend a phone call to AOPA as their support network is quite good.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Shotgun]

Isn't the Cub LSA compliant?

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Shotgun]

How does he know they're realistic? Having a well detailed drawing for the dash does not equate to "realistic". How the plane behaves in a stall equates to realistic.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Ogive17]

He was a real pilot until his health issues forced him to give up real flying.

And when I say realistic, I'm talking about the skins and the instrument panel. He's never flown a 767 in real life but he knows if the instrument panel looks correct and all the displays/controls function as they would in a real plane.

Re:I prefer the old model...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's always flightgear.org as an alternative.

Both the "game" and content are free, but configuring takes a bit more work and perhaps knowing how to program or learn some Nasal scripting. Not exactly easy for most beginners. The upside is that sometimes people with technical skills may be interested in certain scenery or aircraft are willing to help work on those projects. Coders and content creators can and do barter to make things happen in the sim.

Last I checked it still had some quirks (certain aircraft or flying really high caused lag, etc), then again it's been about 2 years since I've messed with it. Perhaps more optimization has been done since then.

Reminds of me Railworks 3

[r6_jason]

Railworks 3 on steam has $1561.15 worth of DLC and you know more than just someone bought all of that. Giving away the base game and selling DLC is a sound idea.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[JSBiff]

I've often wondered though. . . yeah, you can make money that way, but for every person who spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on DLC, I bet you have hundreds or thousands of players who never buy anything?

Well, anyhow, however it works out, there's enough successful free-to-play games out their raking in the dough that I guess it does work out in the company's favor in the end.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[RogueyWon]

They don't exactly give away Railworks, either. It does sometimes get discounted in Steam sales, and if you bought the original, then you got free upgrades to 2 and 3. You do actually have to buy the base game at some point, though.

I suspect this is a special case, driven by the... erm... particular nature of the enthusiast community in question.

More than anything else, it reminds me of the Idolm@ster games (huge in Japan, unreleased in the West), where the home console versions not only require the purchase of a full-priced game, but also have masses and masses of very, very expensive DLC. And yet there is a community out there that keeps lapping it up - even back when the home console versions were 360-exclusive.

As an aside, I did import a copy of the PS3 version of IM@S2, just to see what all the fuss was about. It's cute, well presented and the minigames are fun, but the idea of spending a single penny on DLC for it just seems ludicrous.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[TheRaven64]

I've often wondered though. . . yeah, you can make money that way, but for every person who spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on DLC, I bet you have hundreds or thousands of players who never buy anything?

That kind of logic is what's causing problems for the movie and music industries. It doesn't matter how many people are not paying for your product, it matters how many people are. Your job, as a capitalist business, is to maximise the product of the number of people who are paying by the amount that they are paying. The movie industry has spent a huge amount on marketing campaigns to try to get people to stop pirating their products, forgetting that their goal should have been to make people start paying for them.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[0123456]

I've often wondered though. . . yeah, you can make money that way, but for every person who spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on DLC, I bet you have hundreds or thousands of players who never buy anything?

They still paid $5 for the basic game in a Steam sale.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[Anonymous Coward]

True, if and only if the free users put no additional strain on your infrastructure.

Support costs alone can be enough to put the free users into negative marginal value if they don't in some way contribute to the value of your product.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[SJHillman]

Next up, movie add-ons! You get a copy of the script for free. $5 gets you a copy showing the characters against a greenscreen with no CGI. Another $10 will add in backgrounds. $10 each for household items, guns, explosions and nudity.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[g0bshiTe]

Funny you mention the music industry since they are reporting the highest record sales in nearly 5 years.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[JohnnyMindcrime]

A lot of major record companies are starting to get the message also.

I personally don't care for digital downloads, I've bought CD albums for around 3 decades (vinyl before that) and just rip them myself for portability. Most of what I listen to is classic (hard) rock, and they're doing a really good job of getting me to part with my money currently with remastered albums, bonus tracks, some in DVD-A mixes and some even including DVD concert discs.

I could care less that it's "old technology" or what anyone else thinks, music is my number one hobby anyway and the record companies are giving me good value products meaning that I don't download music freely.

Like you said above, giving those who already pay to keep paying...

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[delinear]

I remember support. It's what we used to have back in the days before public betas of supposedly finished products, where users get to find the bugs and report them on a cheap internet forum.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[delinear]

They'd never do that - people would too easily realise how empty most movies are without the eye candy of the explosions. Worst case scenario, people might actually start demanding well written stories that aren't full of holes.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[JSBiff]

What you're saying is true. . . so long as you can actually make a profit. If you spend a million dollars developing a new free to play game, plus a bunch of premium content, and then only sell $200k of the premium product, you have a problem.

I suppose that has probably happened to at least a few of the free-to-play games through the years. . . you just usually don't hear much about the failures. But, in any case, it's likely that the customers wouldn't have payed to play those games in the first place, so it's not the business model that failed, but the product/company.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[ColdWetDog]

I remember support. It's what we used to have back in the days before public betas of supposedly finished products, where users get to find the bugs and report them on a cheap internet forum.

Yep.

"Please reinstall the operating system and reboot a few times."

Those were the days ...

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[jimicus]

They'd never do that - people would too easily realise how empty most movies are without the eye candy of the explosions. Worst case scenario, people might actually start demanding well written stories that aren't full of holes.

No, but they do do the reverse.

You buy the DVD, you get the movie.

Alternatively, you buy the "Directors Cut", you pay $3 more and get it with a couple of extra scenes which were left on the cutting room floor for a good reason and a director's commentary (which it turns out is fantastically boring and you can't bear to watch more than 5 minutes of).

You could buy the "Special Edition" a couple of years later for $8 more. You get the Directors Cut version but the box is in a tin and includes a poster. The tin doesn't quite fit your bookcase and makes it look all untidy next to all the normal DVD cases; the poster you never take out and indeed you're surprised when a friend who's a real movie buff shows you it - you didn't even notice it in the tin.

If you're patient and want something special, you buy the "10th Anniversary Special Edition" ten years after release for $10 more, you get the Directors' Cut, a "Making Of" documentary (where they cobbled together some footage from the original green-screen shots; occasionally these are interesting but as often as not you find the guys who make the movies are excellent behind the camera but terrible in front of it) and version with a different ending. Why was the ending different? Turned out that the original idea that looked great on paper really didn't work when it was filmed and edited, so they had to write another ending. You watch the original ending once, then never again.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[schlachter]

studios should offer FREE add supported movies for everyone.
with the option to...
Pay $1 for no ads.
Pay $1 for HD.
Pay $1 for more than 2.1 sound.
Pay $1 for cut scenes.
Pay $1 for alternate ending.
Pay $1 to be able to pause/FF/rev the movie as it plays.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[Kalriath]

Most people would just pony up the $10 for the nudity.

Re:Reminds of me Railworks 3

[lachlan76]

The director's cut isn't by necessity worse---Blade Runner for instance had a better ending. Sometimes the studios will dumb something down, and one gets it back in this fashion.

no put meigs field back in as the default airport

[Joe_Dragon]

no put meigs field back in as the default airport

Mild Violence

[drinkypoo]

Mild Violence: It's possible to die. But if anything, you'll see the plane break apart, or the windshield crack.

Is this game going to be MMO? Otherwise it's hard to envision the pay-for-content-as-you-go model working out. It kind of made sense to have to pay for big fat scenery packs, but who wants to get nickel-and-dimed piecemeal? On the other hand, they'll probably sell bundles anyway. If the news here is that they're doing away with physical media (well, besides that ms flightsim is coming back in some form) then I guess there's a little bit of it.

Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

As a long term user of both Microsoft Flight Simulator and X-Plane, I'm relatively sure that (apart from eye-candy) it will suck in comparison to the latter.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a pilot, but haven't played with sims for a long while. I thought it was, but does anyone know if MS FS is approved as a procedures simulator? Is there another FS out there that is?

Re:Meh

[Pricetx]

The MSFS series has unfortunately never been procedure approved. However, I'm pretty sure that X-plane has a special version which is procedure approved (I don't know what the difference between this and the standard version is though). I don't think flightgear is, but i've not followed them in a while.

Re:Meh

[chill]

You mean like X-Plane Pro? It'll cost you $5,000+ in FAA Certified hardware, in addition to the software, to be able to use the simulator to log some actual hours.

Re:Meh

[tlhIngan]

The MSFS series has unfortunately never been procedure approved. However, I'm pretty sure that X-plane has a special version which is procedure approved (I don't know what the difference between this and the standard version is though). I don't think flightgear is, but i've not followed them in a while.

There's no more special X-Plane version - you do have to unlock the approved version though by buying a USB license key.

Basically it reconfigures it to FAA requirements for flight training devices. More details

Don't be fooled by "unlock" - traditional X-Plane has a DVD check to get it out of demo mode. The USB key just ensures you don't have to buy a copy of X-Plane AND the USB key for every computer - the USB key will bypass the DVD check.

Huh?

[0123456]

Microsoft states that the most amazing part of this game is the user can experience some real life locations like Big Island of Hawaii along with 'region-specific weather patterns, foliage, terrain and landmarks.'

You mean just like Microsoft Flight Simulator?

Why isn't this on XBox360?

[erroneus]

The only games I play are on XBox360. I might be interested in that game/simulation. If I needed to buy some fancy control devices, so be it. But having my nice big TV and all it would make the flight simulation pretty nice. And doing the the Live networking would be kinda fun too where you could join groups of flyers and such... interacting with them and all.

Not long ago, I saw my brother doing the flight sim thing on his PC. It was impressive enough, but not impressive enough for me to want to buy and set up a Windows PC... game system? Okay. But my stuff is Linux. I'm comfortable there... got some Apple stuff collecting dust but otherwise all Linux. A free game isn't enough to pull me back to Windows at home.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[Anonymous Coward]

Until the 360 can do multiple monitors so I can have the wrap around viewing and allows any USB yoke, I'll stick with a PC for flight sims.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it works with that thing you Marxist Linux users have, called Whine?

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[demonbug]

The only games I play are on XBox360. I might be interested in that game/simulation. If I needed to buy some fancy control devices, so be it. But having my nice big TV and all it would make the flight simulation pretty nice. And doing the the Live networking would be kinda fun too where you could join groups of flyers and such... interacting with them and all.

Not long ago, I saw my brother doing the flight sim thing on his PC. It was impressive enough, but not impressive enough for me to want to buy and set up a Windows PC... game system? Okay. But my stuff is Linux. I'm comfortable there... got some Apple stuff collecting dust but otherwise all Linux. A free game isn't enough to pull me back to Windows at home.

It is a flight simulator. Doesn't exactly match up with the gameplay demographic of consoles, though it does sound like there will be some arcadey options. Oh, and there is the fact that high-quality simulators are often CPU-bound, so they would have to make serious compromises to make it playable on a console. Not that this has stopped any other game companies from designing down to that level, and it is too early to really have an idea of how advanced the simulator element is, but that could be a real problem.

Personally I like the idea of a flight sim, but so far the ones I've tried have all been pretty boring. While one can theoretically use them for actual flight training (if you get the extra-special dongle that doesn't do anything but cost you an enormous amount), to me the fun part is doing stupid shit that would get you killed in real life. PC sims like Flight Gear and X-Plane do a decent enough job of simulating routine flight dynamics, but as soon as you start doing anything remotely stupid (or fun) they just fall apart. And they don't even have the decency to show pieces of your plane flying apart when you hit things :( I'll probably give MS Flight a try, since it is free, but I'll likely stick with Il-2 for my flight sim cravings; the flight model might not have quite the same fidelity, but it rewards stupidity with bits and pieces flying off - and then there's the fact that you can blow shit up when you're tired of just flying.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[Anonymous Coward]

...because ANYTHING in the posting created the expectation that you buy a windows PC just to play this free game. but go ahead and make this about you, since you will anyways. you're the sun in your little solar system.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[MogNuts]

Eh, don't even bother. I go back and forth on this, but I think the console is the place for non-mmo MP gaming.

On the PC, for dedicated servers on MP FPS's, you get admins aren't always diligent, most of the time you have to join a clan or do some sort of admittance or even wait it a queue on the good ones. As an adult, I have a 1 hour window on a weekday and maybe a few on the weekend to play. I don't want to work to get into some sort of social club, even if it only takes 5 minutes, to play. I want to be in and be out. If I happen to meet a few good teammates, great! I just save them to my friend's list. And all MP games now have auto-mute all. And MS/Sony have full-time dedicated teams to police the cheaters. Not just the 50% admins who do it for fun on the weekend. It solves most of the problems.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still floored to this day with what PC gaming and dedi-servers provide. The ability to custom make a MP match, *some* responsive admins who ban cheaters, the ability to provide long MP life for games after the console brethren MP rooms have long been empty, and the ability to competitively play FPS MP with weapons that JUST aren't auto's (just try to play BOps with a shotty or bolt 1-shot sniper rifle--you just can't aim quick and precise enough) is amazing.

I started getting into ArmA 2 for the PC. I was floored at how amazing MP can be. But it's freaking work to get a simple game. No more public PvP servers (yes I know it's a co-op game primarily, but I find co-op boring), many times you have to join clan (and that's exactly what I DON'T want to do) just to get a PvP game going, or at least spent a lot of time searching for one, or finding non-modded servers. It's a double edged sword.

If I could find something like ArmA 2 for the console, I'd never use my PC again. I heard about OP:DR, but I would imagine that console game's community is long gone. Anybody have any reccomendations--AAA or even an indie for the consoles?

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[almitydave]

Well, it works for Forza 3 & 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96LKRtJvIQw. You're right that they need a good controller.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[Xest]

"It is a flight simulator. Doesn't exactly match up with the gameplay demographic of consoles"

To be fair, it doesn't match up with the gameplay demographic with PCs either, hence why the genre is all but dead relative to it's peak over a decade ago.

But for what it's worth consoles do have a few flight sims, they are all combat oriented, and some are more arcadey than others, but Apache Air Assault in realistic mode was pretty good.

I'm not sure why you think simulators are anymore CPU-bound than any other open world game, and consoles have had a far bigger selection of open world games than PCs in the last few years. I don't see what compromises you believe would be required, consoles are architected for the specific purpose of gaming, whilst PCs are a much more generic architecture where they're not so streamlined for gaming, hence why lower specced consoles churn out better visuals than equivalent PCs are better framerates by quite a margin. I do agree that the current generation of consoles are definitely beginning to show their age against modern PCs now however, but for 6 to 8 year old designs they're not doing bad at all still.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[JAlexoi]

Not only that, I doubt that XBox360 can handle the FlightSim X

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[bemymonkey]

Is the MS Flight Sim series really so multi-monitor-optimized that playing them on a single screen would be so horrible? Really curious here, because I only have one monitor hooked up to my desktop right now (been using laptops exclusively for a few months, and those only have one monitor port) - although I do have like 5 CRTs in the closet. Where are those DVI=>VGA adapters I used to have?

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[MogNuts]

Why is this modded down? How is it either flamebait or a troll comment? And it's definitely not offtopic as it was a reply to COD's dedicated servers.

Lame.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[MogNuts]

As it stands, no. But if it was designed for the 360, I bet you they could. Look at GTA IV. Yes, it was a terribly coded, complete POS port. BUT my C2D can't run it. You need a I7 920 or better to even run it independent of one's GPU. But it runs fine on a 360 or PS3. But the reason being just what I said: they made great optimizations. And Oblivion/Fallout/Skyrim are similar in scope (vast persistent world with little loading in between), or the port of Crysis 1 for the 360/PS3 (a vast world with no loading in between). It all comes down to good optimizations. Hell, not saying it was a sim, but remember Pilotwings 64 for the N64? That was on totally archaic hardware.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but don't count out good coding. But I'm with you, the days of good coding are gone. It will always be "throw hardware at it." And I don't think anyone will make a sim for the consoles. There is just not enough money in it for the target demographic from a business perspective.

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[MogNuts]

I agree with you. I just posted on this a second ago:

"Look at GTA IV. Yes, it was a terribly coded, complete POS port. BUT my C2D can't run it. You need a I7 920 or better to even run it independent of one's GPU. But it runs fine on a 360 or PS3. But the reason being just what I said: they made great optimizations. And Oblivion/Fallout/Skyrim are similar in scope (vast persistent world with little loading in between), or the port of Crysis 1 for the 360/PS3 (a vast world with no loading in between). It all comes down to good optimizations. Hell, not saying it was a sim, but remember Pilotwings 64 for the N64? That was on totally archaic hardware."

But no one will do it. If it was financial viable for the target demographic of a console, they would have done it already. Eh, I'm just bitter because I want to play ArmA 2 and I can't (it's choppy even at low settings which leads me to believe my problem is CPU/RAM bound). Have an aging C2D and it's not enough. But I can't justify buying another system for 1 game when I can play everything else with my 8800 GTS 512 at almost max settings (yes there are exceptions, but I don't mind just turning down settings and I'm not playing BF3/Crysis 2 on the PC).

Re:Why isn't this on XBox360?

[JAlexoi]

My point is that the scenery will not fit into XBox's RAM. That's the freaking big part of FSX

If I had to make a guess...

[idbeholda]

I would say the "Crude Humor" and "Mild Violence" come from the "Enhanced Experience" which probably involves making a pass/grope at the stewardess and spanking unruly passengers back in coach.

Noo

[Anonymous Coward]

And here is Microsoft always late , announcing this just as the freemium business model as failed. Almost caught the news, sometimes you are lucky.

Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[CuriousGeorge113]

Sounds like they are taking a page right out of Zynga's playbook. Offer a game for free, get a user addicted, and then convince that user to spend money on "improve their game experience." I know a few people that have spent quite a bit of money on farmville, mafia wars, etc. with in-app purchases. Way more than anyone would spend to download a full version of a game.

I'd rather pay up front for something and have a complete product (or at least, know how much of that product I'm getting). I'm real aversive to Zynga's model, because there is no way, up front, to know how much you are going to spend to get a good experience playing the game. You just have to keep buying more and more credits as time goes on.

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[DigiShaman]

Depends on the game really. Are you looking for a complete start to finish gameplay experience, or an ever expanding realm in which you can pick and choose what to purchase as needed?

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[delinear]

There are pros and cons to both approaches. With the in-game purchase it's easy to lose track of how much you've spent, but it's equally easy to spend full price on a game and find out it's not worth the cost, and then you're out all of the money at once instead of paying out a little at a time while you're still getting enjoyment from the experience.

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[Khashishi]

I'd rather get something free and decide to pay after I know I like it, but that's just me.

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, if you play MS Flight Simulator, you're paying for additional content anyways to replace the content in the game currently, regardless if you bought the simulator for $80. I think this is a great idea from them if they include an SDK and all the other goodies to make third party content just like in MSFS. I'm sure it'll make Xplane fans weep when everyone goes back to Microsoft and all the content developers ignore Xplane again (With angry North American users complaining about the crap scenery for most of North America).

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[Rhacman]

As long as I'm not pressured to harass 'friends' for 15 each of: landing gear tires, runway lights, hula girl dolls, and pineapples to unlock a special limited edition plane decorated to a Hawaiian theme then I'm fine with that payment model. I played (and actually enjoyed) Zynga games for nearly a year and never paid a single cent to Zynga. I instead opted to ocassionaly click on some of their little advertisement games that awarded you small amounts of their in-game cash and managed to get some of the more expensive rewards that way. What I eventually got sick of was the requisite Facebook wall spamfest that forced you to pollute your wall with endless item requests to make any substantial progress in the games. I wound up quitting both Facebook and Zynga cold turkey.

Re:Sounds too much like Zynga's business model

[grindholme]

A better comparison might be League of Legends. You start with a certain number of avatars; you use one avatar at a time; additional avatars can be purchased at a premium; all avatars are relatively balanced and reasonably unique. Essentially, what you're buying is more content. I've never had a problem with that.

Advertising bonanza

[gladish]

To me this is a great opportunity to sell advertising in a virtual world. Just like billboards on highways, they can advertise everything inside the game. I know it's nothing new, but has anyone done it with this model before or with a flight simulator?

Re:Advertising bonanza

[Anonymous Coward]

Warning, you are flying too low!!!

Re:Advertising bonanza

[Khashishi]

Dunno about flight sims, but this is pretty common in driving sims.

Re:Advertising bonanza

[KDR_11k]

I don't think there's much advertising space that's visible from a plane. They could stick some near the runways but that would only cover a tiny amount of time and these games are about accurate recreations and I don't think many airports have billboards next to their runways.

Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[abe ferlman]

It's probably the inflatable auto-pilot and the nun with the baseball bat.

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely you can't be serious!?

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[borgasm]

nah, the crude humor is that all the flights in the game are on-time, and you get a meal + beverage for free

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Overzeetop]

Of course I'm serious. And stop calling me Shirley.

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget, you don't have to submit to naked body scans to play.

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Frederico Camara]

Would it be the mild violence and crude humor of crashing your plane on others?

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Tackhead]

nah, the crude humor is that all the flights in the game are on-time, and you get a meal + beverage for free

It's an entirely different kind of flying!

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[bjb_admin]

You mean Otto? http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Otto

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably the inflatable auto-pilot and the nun with the baseball bat.

The in fight gladiator movie might be a concern as well.

Re:Crude Humor and Mild Violence

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you have a drinking problem ;)

Easter Egg

[Comboman]

If you discover this feature, an email gets sent to Homeland Security and you win a free plane ride to Gitmo.

Balls to the wall?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it tell you to go "balls to the wall" at any point?

They aren't talking about testicles.

Trademark

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Microsoft likes simple words, "Office", "Windows", calling it "Flight" actually makes sense. But will they be able to trademark it?

Re:Trademark

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Microsoft likes simple words, "Office", "Windows", calling it "Flight" actually makes sense. But will they be able to trademark it?

As the name of a computer game, absolutely. So what?

Re:Trademark

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Microsoft likes simple words, "Office", "Windows", calling it "Flight" actually makes sense. But will they be able to trademark it?

As the name of a computer game, absolutely. So what?

Because then you can no longer have any Flight Sim with the word "Flight" in it, i.e. I remember "Solo Flight" from the Atari 800; if I were to release a modernized version of that today I can no longer do that without getting a C&D from MS Lawyers?

How about making a simulator?

[sakjur]

They're actually saying that it's built for gamepad, joystick and keyboard + mouse? It makes sense that they dropped the "Simulator" part of the name :'( The good part is that it might fit into my economy in a better way than if I actually had to buy a joystick-kit (...yay for being a student!)

Re:How about making a simulator?

[yodleboy]

actually, if you just watch the video it's light on details. I read elsewhere that it will be configurable to be as complicated or as easy as you want. If you want the full realism sim, do it, if you want basically an arcade game, you can do that too. It is also not limited to those 3 inputs. Full support remains for all the fancy flight controls as well. Here's a more detailed look MS Flight. From the article: "That being said, allow me to assuage the longtime fans' fears. Though Microsoft Flight can be played with a keyboard and mouse, it will support all the fancy joysticks, flap pedals and other doo dads that enthusiasts love."

new scenery?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the part of Australia that isn't Sydney still going to look like ass?

Got your ESRB right here...

[ReverendLoki]

I'd like to know where the ESRB finds "crude humor" or "mild violence" in there.

"Attention, this is your Captain speaking. Today's flight will take us straight between the Grand Tetons. *snicker*"

At least, it would have been funny at the age when I played one of the earliest versions...

Microsoft Flight Simulator

[Anonymous Coward]

What's up with MS Flight Simulator? Is it good or is it whack?

A good free flight sim.

[Port-0]

If you are interested in a more free experience. There is an excellent OSS flight simulator out there, with tons of aircraft, scenery for the whole planet, etc... There are a number of people who have used it to build their own home walk in simulators. There was one guy a while back who had somehow acquired the front end of an F15 who was working on building it into a simulator environment in his garage. There was some cool stuff going on around this project.

Re:A good free flight sim.

[Port-0]

If you are interested in a more free experience. There is an excellent OSS flight simulator out there, with tons of aircraft, scenery for the whole planet, etc... There are a number of people who have used it to build their own home walk in simulators. There was one guy a while back who had somehow acquired the front end of an F15 who was working on building it into a simulator environment in his garage. There was some cool stuff going on around this project.

I forgot the Link: http://www.flightgear.org/

Air Transport Pilot Career??

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd sure love to see an Air Transport Pilot Career, similar to FA:ATP by subLogic. I somehow doubt that'll be in the cards, and that I'd be better off with X-Plane along with a Virtual Airline and Virtual Air Traffic Control.

compares to flight gear?

[i.r.id10t]

I wonder how this new version will compare to FlightGear ?

http://www.flightgear.org/

Re:compares to flight gear?

[Anonymous Coward]

My thoughts exactly. But we already know the meaningful difference: the MS Flight is proprietary and Flightgear is free as in freedom.

Re:compares to flight gear?

[Anonymous Coward]

Flightgear is a wonderful program (considering it is free software and developed by a handful of people). Nonetheless the Flightgear community will never backstab its users like Microsoft did with the Flight Simulator customers.
The real downside to FG is the amount of content available. Since everyhting has to be GPL if you want to have your content included by default in the sim, for some developers (coming from FS for instance) its a real barrier. You can develop add ons with different licenses but then you won't be able to use FG infrastructure (database, etc...) and you'll have to chase the different addons all over the web.

I like FG, and with some up to date sceneries (that of paris is breathtaking for being a gpl content) and some of most well developed airplanes its good. But globally its still inferior to FS 2004 with state of the art addons and of course inferior to FS X and X-Plane. But it is a good alternative if for some reason you can't or won't use any of the other commercial flight sims.

Re:compares to flight gear?

[yourlord]

It doesn't compare to FlightGear. FG is built with a focus on simulating the physics of flight.. It's seen some really nice improvements in the eye candy department as of late as well.

Plus, with FlightGear, it's free, as in freedom, and as in beer, as in "here's the source code and all the artwork!"..

There isn't a market place to buy new locations because the ENTIRE PLANET is available for free in FG. Not to mention hundreds of planes, from gliders to cargo/passenger jets, WWI bi-planes to WWII fighters and bombers, to F-15's, etc.

Local weather phenomenon, real-time real-world weather conditions from live METAR data on the internet, multiplayer support allowing you to fly with people all over the world, all free.

All for free... Any other flightsim is pretty much DOA as far as I'm concerned.

Re:compares to flight gear?

[Anonymous Coward]

so why arent you busy playing FlightGear then? does Microsoft Flight threaten some part of your psyche?

Re:compares to flight gear?

[Anonymous Coward]

so why arent you busy playing FlightGear then? does Microsoft Flight threaten some part of your psyche?

Its not an aut aut proposition.
I enjoy playing with FG and FS 2004 for different reasons.
Microsoft Flight on the other hand not a chance in hell.

Games for Windows Live network issues

[Anonymous Coward]

How bout they spend the time to fix Games for Windows Live to work with out connecting a box directly to the internet. Till they fix their problems with stuff not working I will stay away from this.

I thought home flight sim was dead...

[mark-t]

... since 2001, since it could supposedly possibly be used to train terrorists.

Re:I thought home flight sim was dead...

[ColdWetDog]

... since 2001, since it could supposedly possibly be used to train terrorists.

Just a few minor details citizen,

You have to be connected to the Internet to play the game.
When you're connected to the Internet, we can see every keystroke, every mouse movement, every location.

Do have fun, citizen.

(from your God Fearing friends in a concrete bunker near a AT&T trunk line near you)

Re:I thought home flight sim was dead...

[Anonymous Coward]

So can monkey bars, but there was no rush to remove these from playgrounds.

Re:I thought home flight sim was dead...

[mark-t]

So if my 6 year old grandson plays the game and shows a distinct penchant for flying poorly to anyone watching him IRL, will he be mistaken for a terrorist practicing crashing planes?

Re:I thought home flight sim was dead...

[Khashishi]

Don't worry. The programmers put in a subroutine that automatically informs the FBI when the user crashes more than iMaxBuildingCrash planes into buildings.

Re:I thought home flight sim was dead...

[ColdWetDog]

So if my 6 year old grandson plays the game and shows a distinct penchant for flying poorly to anyone watching him IRL, will he be mistaken for a terrorist practicing crashing planes?

Look, if the TSA can start pulling off underpants from 95 year old women in wheelchairs, then the least the FBI can do is to workup every uncoordinated preadolescent for terrorist proclivities.

Re:no put meigs field back in as the default airpo

[anypundit]

no put meigs field back in as the default airport

You won't be able to take off with the giant X's carved into the runway.

Pfft..

[Arashi256]

Graphics in the trailer look like shit considering this is 2012. I gather the "free" bit is one island to fly around and probably one plane - everything else will cost you. And from the content of the trailer, it looks like it's "Microsoft PilotWings 2012". I'll try it, but I think they're going for the "Modern Warfare" casual model rather than an actual flight sim. Time will tell, but I have a horrible feeling about this...

Re:no put meigs field back in as the default airpo

[Anonymous Coward]

no put meigs field back in as the default airport

Bonus mini-game: Dodge the concert attendees at Charter One Pavilion where Meigs Field used to be.

Will there be a Linux version available?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will there be a Linux version available?
Or is it going to be another poorly written single-platform crap?

Re:Will there be a Linux version available?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really have to ask ?

Re:Will there be a Linux version available?

[RightSaidFred99]

Of course he had to ask. Every neckbeard linux dweeb has to ask rhetorical questions about "will it run on linux" when they know full well the answer, so the other linux neckbearders can guffaw at the hilarity.

Re:Will there be a Linux version available?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your obsession is showing again. You compulsively eat Stallman's toe-cheese and the shame drives your posts.

Microsoft to Offer 'Flight' For Free This Spring

[Siggy200]

Signed up for the beta test. I have Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX and FS2004 - Century of Flight and have enjoyed flying with my CH Flight Sim yoke.

I always wanted to know...

[rAiNsT0rm]

Who plays these? I can understand aviation buffs and maybe even people that are pursuing a license but I have never understood it aside from that. I've played all manner of them since the old days of CGA monitors and while the graphics have gotten better it still is like mediocre masturbation at best. Taking off and landing are fun but the 1:1 realtime flight in between is kinda silly to me.

Re:I always wanted to know...

[ColdWetDog]

You're flying in the wrong places then. I have a copy of X on a laptop that I drag out for friends who are visiting (I live in Alaska) and I show them some of the routes we might be flying over. It's fun to get people airsick before they set foot on the plane ...

Re:I always wanted to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Those that enjoy flying? Those that want to know what it is like to actually fly an airplane, get instrument rated, learn how to navigate, etc? There are time magnification functions you can apply to slow down or speed up time as much as you could reasonably want. Later games had certificates and tutorials you could go through. My favorite thing to do was take off at JFK in NY and land at SFO. Landing a 747 for the first time was fun too.

In later sims, the realism and beauty of flying are there too- doing a fly by of chicago or scooping under the GW as you go past NYC are all fun things to do.

People enjoy flying.

Re:I always wanted to know...

[Shotgun]

I'm building a Dyke Delta. Only six or so are flying right now, so it is hard to get flight time in one. With X-plane, I get to practice the plane's flying qualities and the ergonomics of the controls as I've configured them.

I'm sure the rating revolves around content....

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt censoring such language as 'cock pit' and shocked at mention of manipulation of 'rudder and tail gear'. ?!?!?! lol

Rating...

[ToiletBomber]

"I'd like to know where the ESRB finds "crude humor" or "mild violence" in there." Crashing planes into oceans, into each other, or... into buildings is considered mild violence and crude humor?

Re:Rating...

[Anonymous Coward]

Turning off crashing and playing bunny hopping with a boeing 737 is a very crude form of humour in my opinion. Was SO much fun though!

Re:no put meigs field back in as the default airpo

[Sporkinum]

That was a sad day when the default was no longer Meigs. I think that was a throwback from Sublogic days when the developers were based in Champaign-Urbana.

Has it got guns & bombs & shit?

[Hognoxious]

I don't see the point in flying around without shooting and blowing shit up.

For one, you can land at night with MSFS...

[rwade]

When Flightgear 2.0.0 was released, it was released with a new system that more-slickly rendered runway lights -- it used a so-called "point sprite approach." However, Flightgear's implementation of point sprites did not accommodate ATI's non-standard spec, so airports were 100%-dark for all those using ATI hardware. Who is at fault -- whether the Flightgear developers or ATI -- doesn't really matter to me. Why? It's fairly rare for other software vendors to ignore a quirk in a very popular piece of hardware -- ie. the runway lights have worked just fine in every MSFS version I have played.

And this went on for months with no word of a fix or a patch from Flightgear. In fact, I'm not sure that it's fixed even today.

Re:For one, you can land at night with MSFS...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, FG is a community project. They don't have the resources to fix on their side all the crappy opengl implementations done by ATI or Nvidia. Neither of the 2 is perfect, but Nvidia is certainly better for opengl support. So if you use linux, or any unix derived opengl application use Nvidia. You're stil going to have problems but less than with ATI.

Point your finger to crappy ATI support.

Hope people can do free addons

[Travelsonic]

I hope that like with the MSFS series before it [having legit 2002, 2004 disks, and having torrented 95 for the hell of it] that even though THIS will be DLC driven that users can still do their own addons [scenery, airports, models, AI, etc] - and that there will be backwards compatability for aircraft models.

Re:Hope people can do free addons

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope that like with the MSFS series before it [having legit 2002, 2004 disks, and having torrented 95 for the hell of it] that even though THIS will be DLC driven that users can still do their own addons [scenery, airports, models, AI, etc] - and that there will be backwards compatability for aircraft models.

Not possible.

- no freeware addons possible since Microsoft isn't giving an SDK
- no commercial 3rd party support since Microsoft wants a quite large chunk of money (think Apple style).

end result : Flight is shit.

You're better off with X-Plane, FS 2004 or FS X.

Additional content?

[aapold]

the user would need to buy additional content to enhance their experience.

Just wondering what that might be, what you might discover once you start enjoying your flight...

Radar... Oxygen... Landing Gear....

Re:Additional content?

[madhi19]

Gas you get all the planes for free but you must buy the gas at the real rate to fly anywhere! loll

Let me know...

[wideBlueSkies]

...when I can look out the cessna's window and see my actual house when I fly over my block.

Seriously, for all it's technical accuracy, the scenery in MSFS is kind of dull and unrealistic. Sure I can fly around somewhat a somewhat real looking NYC (home) but 9 miles to the west, and my town looks like flat grassland. It gets old fast.

I want to take off from Princeton Airport, head southwest and see Princeton. And then New Brunswick and Cranberry. Not random dirty green flatland.

So yeah, I'll pay for another version of flight sim when (if ever) it will look something like really flying over the landscape. Houses, fields, etc.

Re:Let me know...

[Plouf]

This being said, I never appreciated FSX as much as since I got my PPL license. Sure I can't see my house, but I can actually practice and prepare VFR navigations using the default scenery since the stuff that really matters to the real pilots are is there. I also bought X-Plane to compare and it failed completely: it looks prettier but I almost got lost before leaving the CTR. So I can tell you, from a pilot's point of view, FSX really feels like flying over the landscape since I can use my low-altitude map in the game (and this is my Belgian countryside, not some fancy touristic places).

Re:Let me know...

[n7ytd]

You want the Google Earth flight simulator.

Re:Let me know...

[Shotgun]

There is an Xplane add on that will pull scenery from google maps and make it usable in Xplane.

Better deals

[gr8_phk]

If you really like flight sims, X-plane is the way to go. They have lots of free 3rd party content. If cheap is what you like, FlightGear is the way to go - open source with tons of add-ons, downloadable scenerey, but the graphics are not as pretty. Both have a linux (and mac?) version of course.

It has potential

[samfisher5986]

The engine has had a lot of work done to it and the 3D cockpits are very nice. The main issue is currently its a flight simulator with the features of an arcade plane game, if you free flight in a plane there are no features to use to navigate, just your basic plane controls and your eyes. This is understandable as the BETA seems to focus on missions. Assuming they add all the features FSX has, I don't mind buying the airline jets and my country. I have a feeling I might be disappointed though.

No 360?

[HalAtWork]

Why aren't they releasing this on XBox 360? Seems like a missed opportunity.

Re:No 360?

[cbhacking]

Because the 360's GPU is 6 years old? The flight sim games have always pushed the bounds of GPU capability. While graphics comparisons are a big deal in almost all gaming genres, in simulationist games it's not enough to look pretty; it has to look realistic. The graphics chip on the Xbox 360 probably couldn't even play FS X at reasonable quality (in DX9 mode even, the chip doesn't support DX10 at all), much less its sequel.

Re:No 360?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure FS is built to scale for lower end machines, a lot of people are running on Intel HD 3000 or similar. Besides, other newer PC games are ported to consoles. It just leads me to believe that MS isn't really supporting this product that much and they don't care about it since they decided to kill off the franchise earlier on.

What's the point of pointing the finger at anyone?

[rwade]

Point your finger to crappy ATI support.

I could point the finger to crappy ATI support, or I could just pay $30 for a copy of FSX that will run just fine. One alternative would be to learn to program and contribute to FlightGear, but my hobby is flight simulation -- it's more effective for me to just pay the $30.

Someone asked what the difference between flightgear and MSFS is -- I'm providing my perspective that MSFS is a far-ahead of flightgear.

Re:What's the point of pointing the finger at anyo

[Anonymous Coward]

I could point the finger to crappy ATI support, or I could just pay $30 for a copy of FSX that will run just fine. One alternative would be to learn to program and contribute to FlightGear, but my hobby is flight simulation -- it's more effective for me to just pay the $30.

Someone asked what the difference between flightgear and MSFS is -- I'm providing my perspective that MSFS is a far-ahead of flightgear.

Sure if you're on windows just buy ATI (in my experience ATI is better than Nvidia at least on windows). On the other hand you can't use FS X on mac or linux so if you use those systems you're out of luck. And you'll have to get either X Plane or FG and both of those use opengl.

Look FS X is the end of the line for Microsoft simulations. Sooner or later it will not work anymore on a new Windows release. And then what ? FG is an alternative, yes it has inferior graphics. On the level of FS 2000 or 2004. So its not shit. Whats really hard is getting gpl content. I guess people that expect perfection will die when FS X dies. The rest will go on enjoying simming with either X Plane or FG.

Why did they close Aces Studios?

[Anonymous Coward]

So they shut down (fired) Aces Studios, the team behind the Flight Simulator series, and hired/assigned new people to build Flight? Someone had a falling out with someone, I guess.

Anyone got the inside word?

bah

[dominious]

Microsoft re-launch flight simulator? It will probably crash.

Why does FSX run like shit?

[Leo Sasquatch]

I have a monster PC, built specifically to run the latest games at eye-shredding resolutions. Crysis 2, 1920x1080, Ultra everything, DX11 - 80fps. FSX, 1920x1080 everything maxed, 4fps. Even when it's running like a slide-show, it looks like an 8-bit game. And when I dial everything back to playable levels, it still looks like an 8-bit game, only with more movement.. Fly low, and buildings pop in randomly around city centres, and nowhere else. Despite being in the UK, where we don't use such things, everywhere is dotted with water towers.

Pilotwings looked better on the N64 10 years ago. What is FSX doing (or not doing) that makes it run like a 3-legged dog stapled to a table?

Re:Why does FSX run like shit?

[mmullings]

I SOOOO feel you. My rig is insane and even after all the patches, FSX runs like SHIT. Got to be the game engine.

MS Flight Simulator 1.0 Mac allowed me to crash

[jsepeta]

I could crash my plane horrifically into the Sears Tower using MS Flight Simulator 1.0 for Macintosh. My little turbo-prop airplane started out at Meigs Field. Mayor Daley was correct to close that airport, he just did it ham-handedly. Will Microsoft's downloadable content prevent wannabe terrorists from crashing planes into buildings? What if, as in my case, you just suck as a pilot? I never did learn how to land that thing reliably.

Re:Microsoft to Offer 'Flight' For Free This Sprin

[Anonymous Coward]

I have exactly that yoke -- and if you like it, you obviously haven't flown a real plane :)

Finally

[proverbialcow]

A flight simulator that works in the cloud.

Re:no put meigs field back in as the default airpo

[jools33]

It was all mayor Daleys doing when he ordered crews of bulldozers to destroy the runway in the middle of the night back in 2003 - only in Chicago...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field

Microsoft flight

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever since MS started in the earlier days I have been a hardcore fan and really enjoyed the realism that game offered.
Then I found out Microsoft are developing a new flight simulator, the excitement started again, checking
Weekly on MS Flights website and loving the videos and updated
Pictures. Then a colleague emails this link, the disappoint! whilst reading this article is
Unbelievable thankyou Microsoft for once again getting it wrong.

Looks like another customer making their way to X Plane!