On Orbitz, Mac Users Offered Pricier Hotels First

An anonymous reader writes "Travel site Orbitz found out that Mac users tend to select pricier rooms and swanky hotels. So, from now on, they will show more expensive hotel options to Mac users than to PC users. This is why, although I am a Mac user, my Firefox agent string says 'Windows XP' :)" The (paywalled) WSJ report on which Reuter's summary is based carries Orbitz' s softer explanation, which is that the results by platform are an experiment based mostly on presentation and search-result ordering rather than actually naming higher prices based on OS: "[T]he company isn't showing the same room to different users at different prices. They also pointed out that users can opt to rank results by price."

Comments

Well, duh

[crazyjj]

A smug sense of superiority requires constant maintenance.

Re:Well, duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus, slashdot.

Re:Well, duh

[stevegee58]

Who's smug? Mac or PC users?

Re:Well, duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac or PC users?

Yes

Re:Well, duh

[jellomizer]

Well not kool aid, but fine wines.

As the company stated they are not offering the same room at different rates, however it is showing the nicer hotels first. If there were enough Linux users to make a difference I would expect that they would give them, the roach motels first.

These systems will try to correlate as much information as possible to give its views the most relevant results. if a Mac User is shown on average to buy a hotel that is 10% more then the cheapest, then orbits to offer the best results will give the 10% above the cheapest as its first options so its customers are not hunting down the list.

Re:Well, duh

[Tr3vin]

You mac users keep on drinking the kool aid.

It is actually Flavor Aid. It is a bit cheaper (so that we can still afford macs) and is also the trusted drink mix of cults since 1978.

Re:Well, duh

[Dupple]

I assume Linux users will sleep in a dumpster. After all, it's FOSS

Free Open Sleeping Space!

-----------

I hope everyone has their sense of humour switched on today

Re:Well, duh

[buglista]

It's not doing the same damn thing - read the fine summary at least. It's showing different more expensive hotels, not adding a 30% Mac mark up!

Re:Well, duh

[boristdog]

I assume Linux users will sleep in a dumpster. After all, it's FOSS

Free Open Sleeping Space!

Don't be silly, Dumpsters are proprietary. They have connectors to fit only certain types of garbage trucks for emptying.

Now cardboard boxes, THOSE are universal.

Re:Well, duh

[PenquinCoder]

Depending on the vendor you get the box from though, you might have to tape it up yourself to make it useable. Now, the only question is do we start calling these Universal Box Accommodations DEB hotels, or RPM hotels?

Re:Well, duh

[GodfatherofSoul]

Actually, it could be *any* wine dressed up with a fancy enough label.

Re:Well, duh

[PopeRatzo]

Well not kool aid, but fine wines.

Yes, that's it: "fine wines".

And that sprinkle you're feeling on your head? That's rain.

Re:Well, duh

[denis-The-menace]

Seriously?
A friend's couch or spare bedroom

But the friend will get free and awesome technical during his stay for *Anything*.

Re:Well, duh

[Pope]

A dumpster? Man, I wish! Dumpster-brand trash bins are top-of-the-line. This is just a Trash-Co waste disposal unit.

Re:Well, duh

[Anonymous Coward]

All jokes aside,I wouldn't be so sure about that. Linux users tend to be pretty technologically sophisticated, and such sophistication often earns well in today's society.

Replying to myself, an interesting tidbit, from Linux Journal

The average household income of their readers is $128,000. That's not too bad for an average!

Re:Well, duh

[DrXym]

Well not kool aid, but fine wines.

Or rather, normal wine with a fancy label and sold at a large markup.

Re:Well, duh

[NatasRevol]

But what version is it??

Don't you know the incompatibilities with version 13?

And the awesome features coming out in version 15??

Re:Well, duh

[wealthychef]

A foolish preoccupation with "getting a bargain" is not the way to get what you want in life. Personally I think it's worth spending more when you see value in doing so for yourself. That's what Mac users like myself are doing -- I appreciate and value the design and usability of Macs, so I buy them. Maintenance hassle seems far lower to me. If you think Windows is just as good as Mac, or better, or you prefer that gritty and down to the metal Linux experience, or you just like Linux better, etc., then definitely it makes sense to go Windows or Linux I think and put your financial priorities elsewhere. Enjoy!

Re:Well, duh

[cpu6502]

I've seen studies (published on /.) that Mac and iPhone users are often the least affluent citizens. I suspect that's because they are not very money-conscious and just spend their cash w/o regards to the cost. It might explain why they spend more money on hotels than the rest of us.

Re:Well, duh

[drfishy]

Yeah, but the rent is atrocious.

Re:Well, duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Cardboard box, you were lucky!

Re:Well, duh

[Penguinisto]

So, umm, what about those of us who put Linux on their old PowerMacs, and will happily Hackintosh a PC?

Re:Well, duh

[SternisheFan]

I was watching early tv news this morning. The looks on the talking heads faces as they read this story off their tele-prompters... Priceless!

Re:Well, duh

[Monoman]

Agreed it isn't a Mac mark up but Mac users are more easily parted with their money so why not show them the pricier hotels. Especially if they are getting a percentage.

Re:Well, duh

[wealthychef]

I think you'd have to explain your own motivation, but I think those come under the banner of "enjoying the technical exploration." I think that's a motivator for many Linux lovers. Personally going through all that work to get Mac OS working on a PC defeats the primary points of Mac OS X -- easy integration, low maintenance and quick startup times, for example. But knock yourself out! I use Linux and Mac at work. I avoid Windows if I can as I feel it has both a second class GUI and a second class command line. Windows 7 is definitely a decent offering though compared to earlier efforts. Each have their place, clearly. There is no "best answer for everyone."

Re:Well, duh

[wealthychef]

BTW -- by "quick startup times" I don't mean boot time, I mean shallow learning curve.

Re:Well, duh

[hairyfeet]

That is why I don't see why this is shocking, anymore than that study we saw awhile back that said those that are heavily Mac buyers on average make $100k a year.

Look folks, its a fashion brand. there is NOTHING wrong with that, anymore than there is something wrong with you if you buy Gucci or Prada, and if you want it? Please do buy it. You don't have to jump through logic hoops or try to "sell" us that Apple is somehow "better" or everyone else is "worse" because we've seen Apple has just as many defects and repairs as the other big name brands. I mean you don't see Ferrari owners trying to give us bullet points on why Ferrari is a "better value" than the Mustang do you? of course not.

So please, if you like Apple fashion? Just accept you like it and be happy. there is NOTHING wrong with liking a look, a design aesthetic, or a style and to be willing to pay more for that. TFA is simply acknowledging what we already know, that Apple users have no problem paying more for things. Is that REALLY so surprising?

Re:Well, duh

[_0x783czar]

If buying a superior product is what passes for drinking "kook-aid" these days then all I can say is "OH YEAH!"

Re:Well, duh

[zraider]

It's lazy to assume that your own sense of inferiority is actually someone else's supposed sense of superiority. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't give a second thought about someone else's reasons for choosing a particular platform.

Re:Well, duh

[MightyYar]

Heh - you got me. As I grow older, I tend to buy things that aren't bottom-of-the-barrel anymore. If I build a PC from scratch, I buy a high-quality case and power supply and reputable motherboard. I get a nice non-TN monitor. I buy a good keyboard. If I'm buying a pre-built PC I tend to get a Mac or Lenovo or HP workstation. If I buy beer, it is always some fun craft beer, or at least one of the wannabe craft beers from the big brewers. I don't go to "Bottom Dollar" for my steaks, I go to a butcher and buy a nice steak.

And yes, for hotels I no longer get the lowest room-rate... I look for location and high reviews as a primary concern and I might even pay an extra $10 for valet parking :)

As long as they don't charge me more for browsing with a Mac, I'm cool with trying to profile me. I'll probably still sort by price :)

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Uhmm... My office is Mac-centric but I'm a Linux guy, so I installed Linux on a $400 Toshiba laptop, then installed Win7 and OSX into VMs on that. My boss used to laugh at me every time my OSX VM would take a crap (about once a month because I never restart it and it sometimes doesn't like to wake from suspend), until I told him to make note of every time how MacBook Pro took a dump and let's compare numbers. He has issues with his $1200 "superior product" roughly 5x as often as I do. I see similar stats on the various different generation iMacs in the office, as well; that's why I switched to using my own machine, it just works. Now, I hope you like Grape, and don't worry, Mr. Jones^H^H^Hbs made this Flavor Aid himself, so you know it's safe to drink.

I'd also like to point out that my $400 laptop boots faster (Linux -> login -> start the OSX VM) than any MacBook Pro or iMac in this office, and half of them are mid-2011 models.

Everyone's welcome to their own opinion, but we don't get to choose which facts exist. The above statements are fact. Sorry.

Re:Well, duh

[LDAPMAN]

Citation please. All the published data says the opposite.

"The average household income for adult owners of Mac computers is $98,560, compared with $74,452 for a PC owner, according to technology market data firm Forrester."

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/06/26/why-the-apple-demographic-is-so-important-to-orbitz-and-retailers/

Re:Well, duh

[Mister Whirly]

"Averages" are a funny thing. See if I make $1 a year and you make $255,999 a year together we "average" $128,000. Notice how that "average" doesn't really accurately represent either of our respective incomes?

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Linux fanatics

Re:Well, duh

[SolitaryMan]

Expect more mac users modding you "Troll".

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

I'm skeptical. What $400 Toshiba? I hope you don't mean the one sporting the AMD E-300 processor. What VM are you running?

I see a story being told with a plot of you showing up your boss with your inexpensive laptop, but I don't see any "facts" that you speak off.

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Something being expensive does not make it superior.

Believe it or not, my Apple iMac desktop at the office was cheaper than the comparable Dell machine. That's how I got it. It has given me trouble free operation... can't say the same about the Dell workstations that were "refreshed" at the same time.

Re:Well, duh

[Marc Madness]

... if I make $1 a year and you make $255,999 a year together we "average" $128,000.

Your example would be more illustrative if you said 4 people make $1/year and one person makes $639,996/year, the average is $128,000 with only a single outlier (Perhaps Mark Zuckerberg subscribes to Linux Journal). The quoted statistic also doesn't account for the potentially more numerous Linux users who are too broke to subscribe to the Linux Journal.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Satellite C655 with an i3 and 4GB RAM out of the box, upgraded to 8GB of RAM after a while and popped a decent SSD in it a few months ago, but all-in-all it's been a great machine for the year-and-a-month I've owned it.

OSX? On AMD? Come on, I'm not retarded!

As for the VM? VMWare Workstation 8.

Everything I originally stated was factual, therefore, facts. These details are, as well.

Re:Well, duh

[shutdown -p now]

A more expensive product is not necessarily superior. Furthermore, there are many cases where the product is superior, but it doesn't matter for the purpose at hand. If you're stopping in the town for one night on your way somewhere else, do you really need a five star hotel? It's a strictly superior product, but is it worth the money that could be spent elsewhere instead?

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

So, gravity works differently for you? What I stated above is fact; that my laptop boots and loads an OSX VM faster than a mid-2011 MacBook Pro boots OSX natively is a fact, regardless of who you are. I didn't interject opinion into it by saying it was superior in any way other than booting to a useable OSX desktop faster, which is a fact. Likewise, the $400 price tag of my laptop and the $1200 price tag of my boss' MacBook Pro are, though estimated, factual information; the numbers on the reciepts aren't going to change if someone else reviews them, those are everyone's facts. It's a fact that my OSX VM craps out, at most, once per month, and the Macs in this office do the same, on average, 5x as often; some more often than the average, some less often than the average, all more often than my VM. Again, there is a factual basis for that statement and it does not include any opinion; set any user in front of those machines and they will see the same thing, I saw it myself and that's why I switched.

What fact in my statement was not, in fact, a fact? If a fact differs between two people, it is, indeed, an opinion. My statement was devoid of opinion. That is a fact.

Re:Well, duh

[Grudge2012]

Expect him to not ignore himself.

Re:Well, duh

[PoolOfThought]

TFA is simply acknowledging what we already know, that Apple users have no problem paying more for things. Is that REALLY so surprising?

Except that's not what is being acknowledged. They're not paying more for the same thing.

They're paying more for things that they consider to be nicer or in some way more advantageous to them. In the hotel case maybe they are getting one that is closer to their destination or where they're more likely to meet someone famous. Maybe they just prefer the pillows at one vs the other. But they're not simply willing to pay more for the same thing - they're willing to part with more money if they feel like they're getting something better in return.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Ahh... exclude the non-sequitur cult reference, as that is neither fact nor opinion.

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Now that is more like it. I still have my doubts.

For instance, in your story you supposedly outperformed a mid-2011 iMac. I find it extremely hard to believe that your i3-2350m (2.3GHz) w/ 4GB DDR3-1333 RAM and Intel HD 3000 graphics controller running VMWare Workstation 8 (With OSX Runner) outperforms a i5 quad-core processor (2.5Ghz) w/ 4 GB DDR3-1333 RAM and AMD Radeon HD 6750M running on native hardware.

I took the mid-2011 specs from the lowest configuration 21.5 iMac of that period.

There are benchmarks that show iMacs running Windows 7 faster than the comparably configured PC. This also adds to my skepticism about your ability to run OS X faster in a VM on a $400 laptop.

The only way you could possibly come up with a favorable benchmark for the VMWare based solution is if you were timing "Logging into windows and restoring a suspended VMWare session hosting OS X" versus an iMac being powered up.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

I get called out on it a lot, but, oddly, nobody ever wants to drop by and see it for themselves. Why?

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

M380 @ 2.53Ghz, actually. More to the point, I was as skeptical as you are, my boss and I redid the test a handful of times, in awe of the WTF that we had just witnessed. Also, no, I'm not using any "OSX Runner" (which turns up no relevant results on Google, BTW), I created the VM image (Snow Leopard, Server, 64-bit) on an OSX version of VMWare and moved it over to my laptop, where it ran just fine with minimal tweaking. Oh, and the tests were done using a properly shut down VM, booting into CentOS 6.2, not Windows (which runs in its own VM).

If anything, I'd attribute it to running a lean system. If I don't need it, it isn't loading, be it part of CentOS, Windows, or OSX. MAybe it's less impressive to say that I'm booting into a just-the-essentials Linux desktop, then loading a just-the-essentials OSX VM in less time than it takes to boot non-optimized OSX natively, but that's still 2 operating systems and a VM hypervisor and it's still on a slower CPU (when you consider cumulative speed of all cores). Since none of this process is graphics-intensive, the GPU specs really don't play into this.

Re:Well, duh

[danbob999]

By "comparable", I guess you meant "all in one" and hard to repair/upgrade? There are some use cases for such a form factor but most people buying that would be better with a tower and discrete monitor. You can keep the monitor for 10 years and change/upgrade the tower every 5 years or less.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Hmm... modded down as Flamebait for posting my own personal experience? I could see modding down for the cult reference, were that the point of the post, but come on, someone's being a bit too defensive and/or completely lacking any sense of homor regarding Flavor Aid. As someone who works in an office full of Macs, married a woman who refuses to touch a PC, and uses OSX 40+hr a week, willingly (I'm not forced to use Coda, I can use any editor I wish), for work, I'm not trying to drag Apple down or stain The Name Of The Jobs. Apple fans, consider that before you moderate.

Re:Well, duh

[danbob999]

The CPU makes no difference either at this point. It's all about the SSD.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

It is now, but we haven't tested it since I installed the SSD 4mo ago.

Re:Well, duh

[Grudge2012]

Replying to myself, an interesting tidbit, from Linux Journal

The average household income of their readers is $128,000. That's not too bad for an average!

Yeah, those Linux users still reading dead tree magazines - or rather those who are employed by companies wasting their money by subscribing those for them. But what about the other 99% of Linux users?

Re:Well, duh

[Spectre]

A more expensive product is not necessarily superior. Furthermore, there are many cases where the product is superior, but it doesn't matter for the purpose at hand. If you're stopping in the town for one night on your way somewhere else, do you really need a five star hotel? It's a strictly superior product, but is it worth the money that could be spent elsewhere instead?

If you are looking for a bed to crash on with clean linens, then "No, it doesn't matter."

If, on the other hand, you are tired from sitting in a car all day, and want to relax naked for a while with your significant other in the in-room spa while enjoying a snifter of brandy ... then "Yes, it matters."

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

I'm not using any "OSX Runner" (which turns up no relevant results on Google, BTW), I created the VM image...

Sorry, meant to say OS X Unlocker.

MAybe it's less impressive to say that I'm booting into a just-the-essentials Linux desktop, then loading a just-the-essentials OSX VM in less time than it takes to boot non-optimized OSX natively, but that's still 2 operating systems and a VM hypervisor and it's still on a slower CPU (when you consider cumulative speed of all cores).

So in other words, you are just measuring boot times. Not much of a measure of performance...

Re:Well, duh

[jedidiah]

That technological sophistication also translates to sophistication in general. This includes methods of getting more while spending less even when it has nothing to do with computers.

Not being distracted by shiny shiny brands and having little if any brand loyalty also helps.

Bragging about how much you spent versus how you didn't spend much. Of course Orbitz knows a sucker when they see one coming.

Re:Well, duh

[jedidiah]

Except the rest of us simply don't buy it.

You are just buying another fruity logo. The idea that it is a "superior product" is just conspicuous consumer suburban nonsense.

You don't have to compromise and you don't have to treat money like you didn't have to do anything to earn it either.

Re:Well, duh

[Agent0013]

Well not kool aid, but fine wines.

Or rather, normal wine with a fancy label and sold at a large markup.

Fancy names can fool wine geeks into paying more for a bottle.

Re:Well, duh

[stevegee58]

Linux users are always offered Motel 6

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Stock install of OSX, the EFI image came along with the VM image when I moved it from the Mac I created it on and Workstation 8 on the PC didn't complain. I wasn't sure it would work, but I figured it was worth a try; worked fine.

How's this for a measure of performance? Win7 with IE9, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Fireworks CS 5.5, and Photoshop CS 5.5 open, pages loaded in the browsers and designs loaded in the Adobe apps. OSX with Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Coda open, pages loaded in the browsers and multiple source files open in Coda. CentOS with VMWare Workstation, Chrome, Firefox, Skype, Thunderbird, and a couple terminals open, OSX and Win7 VMs open in VMware, pages open in the browsers, Skype making a voice call, Thunderbird managing two personal and one work email account, active SSH connections to dev and staging servers on the terminals. Load average? 1.61 for the last minute, 1.63 and 1.60 are the 5 and 15min LAs. 1.8GB of RAM free and just shy of 50MB of swap used (no swap used in either OSX of Win7 at the moment). CPU1: 17.0% CPU2: 19.8% CPU3: 8.9% CPU4: 47.2%. Yes, two of those cores are virtual (hyperthreading); no, I don't care. System is stable and responsive right now, as it always is.

How's that for a measure of performance?

Re:Well, duh

[AmiMoJo]

More expensive does not necessarily mean better. Sometimes brands trade of reputation without actually being better than their competition. Belkin take it to the extreme - they are cheap shit and have a terrible reputation, but clueless shoppers in PC World see their high prices and assume they are a premium brand.

Re:Well, duh

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Still not much of a measure. It's just a task list and your CPU usage reported by either Activity monitor or Windows 7. How is a comparison being made?

Right now I'm using VMWare Fusion 4.1.3 on my Mid-2012 MacBook Pro. I have to run a virtualized version of my network to test some software that splits the workload amongst several hosts. I'm running 5 Scientific Linux 6.2 hosts with two running Apache Web server, all running MySQL server daemons, and all running code designed to push large quantities of data through. My laptop is not even breaking a sweat. Is it a comparable measure of performance? No. Why? because it doesn't give me a nice computed benchmark to compare against another configuration running a similar task, nor does it fully exercise the OS since applications running in the background are idled more so for applications in a ready state waiting on user input (ie. your many browsers and editors that you have loaded in your example), in favor of applications in the foreground.

In addition to my virtual servers, I'm running Outlook, Word, Safari, OmniGraffle, BBEdit, SSH, gnuplot and Previewer in OS X. Since I'm not pushing data through the scripts, my CPU is showing 96% idle. So the only thing we proven is that we are able to load a bunch of stuff into memory and the scheduler is more than capable of handling the task. Now I'm able to fully test my network and still have enough headroom on the CPU to do some work while the test suite does its thing. Sure the fans spin up but the notebook is still more than up to the task. I'm running 16 GB of RAM to support this test environment. I didn't run Skype today, but I did use google voice for a conference call that lasted an hour with excellent call quality.

Of course this is 2012 and this usage should be typical of most developers, so don't take offense that I don't consider this an admiral feat in computing power. Come to think of it, this is a considerable improvement from 10 years ago.

Anyway, even though you may have loaded a crap load of applications waiting for your input my point still stands, I seriously doubt that your performance in OS X is faster than OS X running on native hardware. That being said, I'm not doubting that you are able to do some work with your set up. I'm just thinking that your perceived performance boost may not actually be what you perceive it to be.

BTW another reason OS X may boot faster in your VMWare environment versus an actual iMac may be due to the kernel extensions quickly exiting since hardware normally present in an iMac not being present in your virtual host.

Anyway, still a cool story...

Re:Well, duh

[hairyfeet]

Which would just show how delusional they are not to simply accept they like a design or brand and are willing to pay more for it. i personally like the Asus EEEs and Asrock motherboards and Ford Ranger trucks. Are they "better" than the other brands? Nope, I simply like the layout of the Asrock boards, the EEE design, especially the 12 inchers, are appealing to me and the Ranger is the perfect size for my body, with every control being the perfect distance for me to reach everything easily and the seats are just right, not too large or too small. My oldest prefers HP business laptops and the Chevy S10 because he likes the feel of the larger HP 17 inchers and even though the S10 feels like a low rider to me it fits him like a glove.

That is why I don't understand the logic hoops or the inevitable "ur an Apple hater!" bullshit. I don't hate Apple anymore than i hate Gucci or Prada, while the brand doesn't personally appeal to me I can see why it would to some and have NO problem with those willing to pay more for that brand. But to kid themselves into thinking a brand somehow makes them "hip" or "cooler' or just superior to anyone else? Well that's marketing bullshit and not reality. IRL Apple is no different than any other upscale brand and the only thing that should matter to the buyer is if they like it and think its worth the money, if so? then please do buy it and be happy.

Re:Well, duh

[manekineko2]

>Except that's not what is being acknowledged. They're not paying more for the same thing.

That's not what the person you're replying to said at all, he didn't say they're the same thing. People buy brands like Gucci and Prada for exactly the sort of reasons you list, that essentially, they feel like they're something better in return.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

Ahh, actually those CPU and load stats are from the CentOS host, though it's funny you jump right to assuming I'm reporting that data from one of the VM guests. Furthermore, my current project is very javascript-heavy, so it's not accurate to say that any of those prowsers are sitting idle in the background; and have you ever run coda? That bastard will eat CPU just sitting there if you've got SVN configured.

I never claimed a perfomance boost of any kind, that that, for the typical use case here in my office, it actually is faster in the VM than native. I also pointed to the possibility that this is due to my having stripped down this install of OSX for performance reasons (I did the same for Centos and Windows, as well, for the same reasons). In a different use case, or without the optimizations, I have little doubt that the quad core i7 in my boss' MacBook Pro would eat my laptop's lunch. My point was stability, and I think I made that point well, even if you want to argue other points. I threw in the other bits simply as points of interest.

That said, I'm eyeing a much nicer laptop that even the top of the line MBP available today won't touch performancewise, for half the price, including 1yr accidental damage warranty and 2yr parts and labor warranty, rivaling Apple Care. The only spec the MBP wins on is the retina display; that higher resolution display is not worth $2000 to me, moreso given the reduced performance that would come with the lower spec machine. I'll use that $2000 on a better monitor for when I'm tethered to my desk, better office chair, more network storage, or maybe just a few nights out. For my wife? She cares more about the aesthetic design of the system than raw performance, if she wants a MBP with retina display, it's hers. It works for her and she likes it, so I support that.

I'm not saying you're doing it (if you are, I'm not seeing it) but I think it's funny when Apple fans jump on me whenever I point out that my PC can do everything their Mac can do, for a fraction of the price. The only reason I touch OSX is for Coda, because, though it's a resource hog unlike anything I've ever seen, it's a freakin' slick editor, and a couple of image processing utilities that are nothing more than GUIs for FOSS packages I already have on CentOS, which I could easily replace with some BASH scripts or a quickly coded GUI of my own. I'm moving more and more toward using Aptana, though, so OSX might be seeing its way out soon. Good riddance given the direction Apple is taking with Lion and the upcoming Mountain Lion; pitty, I do quite like Snow Leopard, but once it's no longer supported with security updates, I'm out. Apple's new direction just doesn't jive with me, as a developer. My boss, proud owner of 5 iMacs, a MacBook Pro, and 2 (formerly 3, but I bought one) G4 PowerBooks, is starting to feel the same way; the Apple mindset is changing and it is quickly becomming incompatible with the work we do. I'll still have the G4 for testing things in OSX native Safari, but that's likely all the use it's gonna see.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

I have to go off topic to reply to your sig... I laugh at comedians and I buy tickets to their shows, so yes, it's possible there's some crossover. In my teens, I used to laugh at ICP's lyrics, and yes, there are two of their CDs in my collection. I've since grown up and now buy music that I enjoy for its musical qualities, rather than for humor or shock value (save for Richard Cheese, I love that motherfucker), but yeah... Teens (and people in general) tend to buy things that make them happy and laughter makes them happy, so of course they're secretly buying all the pop music they're laughing at.

Re:Well, duh

[dinfinity]

Although there probably is some truth to that, it does look like pretty crappy research to me: http://academyofwinebusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/24-AWBR2011-Mantonakis-Galiffi.pdf

Re:Well, duh

[drkim]

"...The average household income of their readers is $128,000."

...unfortunately, their readership is Bill Gates and 20,000 open source coders.

Re:Well, duh

[_0x783czar]

I never said that the expense is what made it superior. A combination of Unix, ARC Objective-C, Sturdy Construction, and Software tailored for the specific Hardware platform take care of that. My MacBook Pro, Linux desktop, and I are quite happy together.

An Idiot once said:
"Stop Liking What I Don't!"

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

He can call me whatever he wants, I'm using the machine right now, I know I'm being honest.

As I repleid to another posted who "called me out" on this: I get called out on this a lot, but, strangely, nobody ever wants to come actually take a look for themselves when I offer it.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

A combination of Unix, ARC Objective-C, Sturdy Construction, and Software tailored for the specific Hardware platform

So, Gentoo with GNUstep on pretty much any non-sub-$500 laptop?

Re:Well, duh

[_0x783czar]

You're missing the "software tailored for the specific Hardware platform", and "ARC" objective-C. Plus, you'll have to pay at least 900 to your average PC manufacturer to get an i7, High Def display, SSD, & High quality graphics card as well as on board. They aren't bad machines, but they they don't have the same quality track pads and a few other things, which some people may not find important but others are willing to pay for. No one is forcing you to buy one.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Linux too, and use it regularly.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

I thought the whole point of Gentoo was that everything should be compiled by the user, so they can tailor it to their hardware by compiling with the right sets of flags.

At any rate, beyond the kernel, there is no "software tailored for the scecific Hardware platform", either. Apple's kernels support Core2Duo, Atom, i3, i5, i7, and I beleive Opteron, and a decent list of chipsets, all natively. You can even coax them to run on AMD, with no modification, just the right boot flags. Of course, you're welcome to compile your own Darwin kernel, just as you can compile your own Linux kernel, with support only for the hardware you actually have; then, you have software tailored for the specific Hardware platform. Beyond that, you have drivers; for dedicated graphics, those are vendor-supplied, for everything else, the open source drivers are used as a starting point, with modifications returned to the community as required, so all that tailoring they're doing there, anyone who wants to use Linux gets it, as well. If anything that ran on top of the kernel were tailored for a specific platform (say, sandy bridge i7), none of it would run on anything else. Since you can take an image of a C2D iMac's hard drive and put it on an i7 PowerBook's hard drive (assuming updates have been installed) and boot it, I'm gonna say no, no tailoring is going on here. Just like Linux and BSD (which Darwin is), OSX loads kernel modules; but they don't call them that, so you might not realize it. OSX is no more tailored than Ubuntu. This is what I was trying to point out in my previous post.

and "ARC" objective-C

Care to explain the difference? If you mean Automatic Reference Counting, the java-like garbage-collection-with-a-different-name, that's part of the Objective-C spec, it's in the compiler, and available on Linux as well. If you mean something else, please explain.

Plus, you'll have to pay at least 900 to your average PC manufacturer to get an i7, High Def display, SSD, & High quality graphics card as well as on board.

Well, since store.apple.com hasn't banned me yet, let me take a look... I heard the MacBook Air has a full HD screen now, nice! Let's check those out, they start at only $99 more than a PC with all the amenities, that sounds alright. Whoops, the top of the line model, for $1499, has an i5 and only integrated graphics. On to the MacBook Pro line, starting at $1199. OH! A 13 inch with an i7, for $1499! Wait... Only integrated graphics, damn. Ahh, here we go, next model up, for $1799, that's got everythign you listed! Wait, no, no SSD there. Let's try again. Ahh, if I go for a retina display, I can have everything! GREAT! It's only $2199! Awesome! Wait... No optical drive of any sort? Fuck.

Well, for $30 less I can have a 2.6Ghz i7 (vs the quoted MBP's 2.3Ghz), 256GB SSD (just like the MBP) *and* a 750GB HD, 16GB of RAM (vs the MBP's 8), and a BluRay burner. True, I'm giving up the retina display, but let's just say I need the faster CPU, more storage, and might want to watch a blu-ray movie, bought with that $30 I saved, on the plane during my next trip.

Let's see if Apple can match those other specs, I might be willing to pay a little bit for that. Oh! Cool! The next model up starts with a 2.6Ghz i7, for only $2799! I can affort the extra $630, so let's look at that! Upgraqde to 16GB of RAM, $200; can only upgrade the storage to a total of 768GB, which falls short of the PC, for $500 more, but let's move along anyway. Oh! I can add a DVD drive, that might work, and it's only $79! Wait, it's external. Damn, one more thing to carry on the plane. Oh well, it comes with a nice laptop bag, right? Wait, no, that was the PC, which also included a decent mouse AND a worthwhile trackpad. Well, that PC has 1 year of accidental damage protection and 2 years P&L warranty, better add AppleCare to

Re:Well, duh

[_0x783czar]

Well, look, it seems you're just really set against Apple products. That may not be the case, but you come across as having a vendetta. I don't think you're trolling, however. My point isn't that Apple is the best bang for your buck, far from it. But they offer a few things which no other manufacturer does (glass track pad, unibody construction, Cocoa interface, etc) these may seem trivial to you, but in the free market if people are willing to pay for them then Apple is smart to charge for it. Apple computers aren't about individual components, for some like myself it is the combination of all those little things together. When I can get that experience (hassel free) from another vendor, I'll jump over in a heartbeat.
There's also another issue to consider, many people are not as computer savvy as your typical Slashdot visitor. (I mean, we write our comments in HTML for crying out loud). Seeing as you're a fellow Linux user I'm sure you'd agree that there is no contest between OSX and Windows. And for the average user, Linux is not easy to configure in a way to get optimal performance. And even for me, sure, I could compile my own kernel for my own hardware, but I don't want to have to. I want to have fun with those sort of things for side projects, but also have at least one machine that just works and does everything I need out of the Box.

I think you'd have people be a little more open to hearing your data if you came across less like you've got a score to settle with Apple. People tend to be more open to hearing opinions from people that don't sound biased. I think that's why so many people up until now have been dismissive of your own experience.

And no, Automatic reference counting is not Garbage Collection, its much more efficient than that. In fact Objective-C does have garbage collection as well. ARC is not yet part of the Objective-C standard, but soon will be I'm sure. It is available on Linux but only since last year.

Re:Well, duh

[BronsCon]

I have no vendetta against Apple whatsoever. I don't like the direction they're taking their OS, starting with Lion, and that will keep me from considering their platform for development. Simply put, I use Snow Leopard with no issues, as it is a very nice, very robust OS that does what I tell it to do; starting with Lion and continuing on with Mountain Lion, OSX is a consumer OS centered around consumption rather than creation, it's a mindset that interrupts the typical developer's workflow. Once Mountain Lion comes out and Snow Leopard ceases to be supported with security patches, I'll be forced to abandon it; this meand abandoning Coda, which I truly do like using. This is not something I want to do, but I can't run my system on unsupported software (Snow Leopard in a few months) and Lion disagrees with my workflow. That's not a vendetta, that's a business case for switching platforms. Because I see this coming, I've been getting more familiar with tools available on other platforms and I've started liking Aptana Studio 3 nearly as much as Coda; I'll still miss Coda and, indeed, Snow Leopard, but it is what it is.

It's a consumer OS, created to fuel consumption by encouraging consumers to consume, and if that's what you use your computer for, grab a MacBook Air and be happy, more power to you. Snow Leopard was the last version of OSX that was designed with any other use case in mind.

Did you miss where I said that? It's a direct quote from my post. If someone likes what Apple offers, if their current platform meets one's needs, that person should, by all means, use Apple products. And for the use cases that most apply to the marketing philosophy that drove the development of Lion and Mountain Lion, an Air is more than adequate. I think the last bit of that quote sums up where I'm coming from quite nicely.

Also, if they haven't fixed their cooling issues, even my wife, who has owned nothing but Mac since the early G3 days (we still have that G3, it still works, I still use it; now THAT is well engineered) and adores her current MacBook, isn't interested.

I guess, with my vendetta and all, I should probably put that G3 to rest? How about the PowerBook G4 I bought off my boss last year? Should I toss it? Those two systems, and the fact that I'm typing this in Firefox in a Snow Leopard VM would seem to fly in the face of your accusation that I have a vendetta against Apple. Or are you saying that my wife, who has used Macs exclusively for the last 13 years, owns an iPod Classid, iPod touch (which I bought for her), iPod Nano, iPad, iPhone 4s, and an early 2011 17" MacBook Pro, also has a vendetta against Apple, because she's not interested in Lion or anything in the currrent Mac lineup? She's not even a developer and she recognizes the push for consumerism and media consumption that is rampant in Lion and wants to stay away from that. When she buys another laptop, she wants top of the line, which would put her in MBP+retina territory with Apple, which is unacceptable to her given the nonstandard SSD, soldered-in RAM, and the fact that the system is glued together, in addition to being screwed together. If anything on that system fails, the bottom plate is glued to the LiPo battery, good luck getting it apart without starting a fire; and even if you manage that, nothing is field-replaceable. If anything goes wrong, Apple will have to replace the whole thing and, with the battery being glued to the frame, making it exceedingly and unnecessarily dangerous to open the case, parts can't readily be salvaged from returned units, by Apple; these are devices designed to end up in a landfill. For twice the price of a more capable system that can be upgraded, salvaged, and easily recycled at the end if its life, that is simply unacceptable to me, and I'm far from what one would consider an environmentalist.

You also seem to be skirting the fact that OSX is actually, in no way, tailored to a specific hardware platform, unless you want to say it's

Re:Well, duh

[_0x783czar]

I don't know what your point is with all this, but all I said was that I like OSX, and Macs, I have found them to be a superior product in my experience and that people would likely listen to your posts and not say you were just making stuff up if you came across less combative.
I know you have very well thought out arguments, I disagree with many of them, but in the end I guess that I just don't care enough to keep going.

Ah it makes sense now.

[grub]

This makes sense.

When I was looking for accommodations in San Francisco from my MacBook Air, I was offered the executive suite at the 'Beef Chunks in Gravy Bath House'. I could never figure that one out.

Re:Ah it makes sense now.

[Shrike82]

This makes sense.

Indeed. Most travel sites, and general shopping sites, initially organise things by what they call "Relevance", and in many cases this is a totally ambiguous term! Relevance for them can surely mean which supplier paid them the most for advertising. Organising results based on someone's hardware, if a correlation can be shown between the hardware and end choices for accommodation in this case, actually seems pretty sensible and less sinister than what I'd usually expect.

Looking forward to reading all the paranoid and rage filled comments though...

Re:Ah it makes sense now.

[mcgrew]

As the first poster said, "well duh". Apple owners pay more for their gear, they want superior gear, and it stands to reason that someone who wants a top of the line computer (whether "top of the line" is real or percieved, many people always think the more expensive item must be better, even though Alieve and the generic naproxin sodium are identical but the prices are way apart) is going to want a top of the line room.

I don't see this as ripping off Apple users, I see it as catering to them.

Re:Ah it makes sense now.

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes sense.

When I was looking for accommodations in San
Francisco from my MacBook Air, I was offered the executive suite at the
'Beef Chunks in Gravy Bath House'. I could never figure that one out.

I call bullshit. If you were a REAL Apple user, you would've been looking for appropriate accommodations FOR your MacBook Air before checking for something for yourself.

Orbitz deserves praise

[CajunArson]

Apparently Orbitz is helping to contribute to the bloated self-esteem and sense of self-worth that Mac users crave. They should be applauded for reinforcing the RDF in the name of Saint Jobs.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[Moheeheeko]

Actually im thinking is more along the lines of "hmm, this dumb schmuck bought THAT overpriced thing, lets see if we can pawn off another."

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[DogDude]

What you're describing is tacky conspicuous consumption. Really wealthy people who are secure with themselves don't need to show off in the ways you're describing.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[tsa]

Not bloated. I'm just better than other people, not because I have a Mac, but I have a Mac because I am better and therefore earn more money than your average person and thus I can afford a Mac. I like a good hotel too, so well done Orbitz.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[Score Whore]

What you're describing is tacky conspicuous consumption.

That's true. Us truly wealthy people prefer our consumption inconspicuous. Now that Larry has Lanai, I wonder how much the Big Island is going to set me back.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[BronsCon]

I can afford a Mac, as well. My wife prefers them, so that's what I buy for her. Me? $400 PC that runs circles around all but the highest top-end Macs. Oh, and runs OSX just fine, either natively (tried it to see if it would work) or in a VM.

It's worth noting that I can afford a nicer hotel than you, what with the $800 I saved vs buyingtwo $1200 MacBook Pros.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[tsa]

Ha! I don't have a wife, so I have cash to burn while your wife burns your cash! :)

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[BronsCon]

Ha! My wife pulls in almost as much as I do. When I say *I* buy her a MacBook, I mean she pays for her own.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[shutdown -p now]

Do they also have a secretary to reply to Slashdot comments for them?

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[tsa]

Drat. You win. :)

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[BronsCon]

Hahaha! It's threads like this that keep me coming back here.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[BronsCon]

Err... Not the "you win" part... The humor.

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[tsa]

I understood that :). It was fun! Thank you :).

Re:Orbitz deserves praise

[BronsCon]

I figured you got it, the followup was for everyone else :)

Why?

[Lord Lode]

> This is why, although I am a Mac user, my Firefox agent string says 'Windows XP' :)"

Why would you do that, if you're a Mac user, don't you prefer to select the pricier hotels rather than seeing those common hostels for WinXP users?

Linux users

[GameboyRMH]

...will see offers for "escort services"

Users browsing with IE will be offered a helmet and padded walls.

Users logged into Facebook will be given the option to reduce their costs by selling video from hidden cameras inside the hotel room.

Re:Linux users

[American AC in Paris]

Nah, Linux users'll see a listing of the closest people with nailguns and lumber on loan. (I kid! I kid!)

Re:Linux users

[Kupfernigk]

I believe that most Google staff are Linux users and they are rather well paid. So you might be right. I imagine the average hobbyist Linux user would be a hard sell for escort services. "You charge what?? I could get a new computer for that and I wouldn't need to shower after I'd paid for it."

Re:Linux users

[Baloroth]

Users logged into Facebook will be given the option to reduce their costs by selling video from hidden cameras inside the hotel room.

"Option"?

Re:Linux users

[A.Gideon]

have to high five you for this.. it was funny. have you seen the "unix based os" internet meme where it says "i reboot about as often as i get laid"?

Where is this meme?! 3

Here. Now.

Re:Linux users

[Golddess]

Even nerds living in their mother's basement go to conventions that are too far to drive to / be driven to.

Re:Linux users

[Samantha Wright]

The solution to that is clearly a mesh network of mothers' basements, not any of the above.

Re:Linux users

[An ominous Cow art]

I'm imagining a Beowulf Cluster of mothers' basements...

Re:Linux users

[MrHanky]

No, there's a new version of Skype out now.

Re:Linux users

[NatasRevol]

You can remove it from your timeline.

But everyone can still see it in Facebook.com/baloroth/video

Re:Linux users

[Quiet_Desperation]

So sex is the only thing Linux users are known to pay for?

Re:Linux users

[cultiv8]

networked through a single WOW Realm.

Re:Linux users

[fa2k]

I believe that most Google staff are Linux users and they are rather well paid. So you might be right. I imagine the average hobbyist Linux user would be a hard sell for escort services. "You charge what?? I could get a new computer for that and I wouldn't need to shower after I'd paid for it."

I'd imagine that the number of people who use Linux primarily because of cost reasons is pretty low... Because you get a Windows license with every computer that you don't build yourself, most techies will probably even have a few unused licenses from old machines.

Re:Linux users

[Penguinisto]

Which, when inverted, spells...

Re:Linux users

[hippo]

It's called slashdot.org

Re:Linux users

[RabidReindeer]

Linux users would be given the address of a home depot, a list of vacant lot sites, and a "makefile" for building a hotel. Unfortunately, there would be library dependencies with links to unmaintained building codes.

Only the gentoo users.

The rest of us will settle for Motel 6 and the Yellow Pages. Bookmarked at "Pizza Delivery".

Re:Linux users

[joss]

I've had two worse ideas as offers for startup ideas this week.. a scheme for smelly linux geeks to exchange mum's basements is a fucking brainwave by comparison

Re:Linux users

[mjwx]

Linux users would be given the address of a home depot, a list of vacant lot sites, and a "makefile" for building a hotel. Unfortunately, there would be library dependencies with links to unmaintained building codes.

Unless they choose a ready made chain like Staybuntu or Hotel Mint. But if they do that, things like power points, TV's or air conditioners may not always work correctly and the owners may randomly re-arrange things regardless of how much you complain.

Re:Linux users

[Dishevel]

You do deserve the funny you have.
The truth now though is quite a bit different.
For most users and equipment Linux does 'just work' now. There are many choices for almost any type of software that most people would use that is just a click or a single 'sudo apt-get install [new thing I want]' away. Linux mint for example is good looking. Comes with codecs and flash. Works well, Easy to use and install.
Seems to me that for most use cases that for non computer people that Linux would be a better and easier choice.

Re:Linux users

[tsa]

Yeah, and breakfast included? Are you nuts? I eat breakfast off my feet during my morning lecture!

Re:Linux users

[BronsCon]

And applies more to OSX users than Linux users. After all, OSX is a certified UNIX system, while no Linux distro has been certified.

Re:Linux users

[Frankie70]

GNU/Hotel, you mean.

Re:Linux users

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

User logged into facebook, will have their videos sold by default, unless then hit the do not video tape button convinetly located in the corner of the ceiling closet. No additional fee will be charged for the convinince of having your tape sold.

Re:Linux users

[tunapez]

Done...http://www.couchsurfing.org/

Re:Linux users

[Dishevel]

What mainstream titles do most people need?
Most people need to email, check facebook, youtube, have a simple word program and maybe a spreadsheet.
What can you not do on mint?
Heck even if for some reason you absolutely have to have MS Office because you have a heavily formatted document or a spreadsheet with special stuff (Not most users) you can run MS office in WINE.

Re:Linux users

[Dishevel]

All stuff I fully believe happens with Linux.
The audio thing..... (Sometime even Linux sucks.)
Most USB wifi adapters will work. ndiswrapper is not much of a problem. Add to that that most people do not need to use a seperate USB wifi adapter.
Again Linux is not perfect but for a majority of people it would work better than windows for what they actually do.
Also to be fair if you use windows as well you can come up with three things that went bad there as well I am sure.
Again. Linux is not perfect. Linux is not the better answer for everyone.
For a majority of people though Linux would work with less hassle to do the things that most people do.
To have a system that sits in a house and checks email and facebook. Plays movies and youtube. Dose some homework and more Linux is better.

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

I use Windows as my primary OS for 5 years now (it was Linux for 4 years before that), so, yes, I have enough personal experience to make a comparison - and as far as "just works" go, Windows wins by a large margin. Especially when it comes to hardware support, I don't recall the last time I've had to look for a driver for anything - Win7 just automatically downloads whatever is needed from WU.

Re:Linux users

[argStyopa]

aka the "Erin Andrews" option.

Re:Linux users

[OhHellWithIt]

I was going to say that Linux users would be shown lower prices because they're tightwads, but your comment is much more elegant.

Re:Linux users

[jedidiah]

You mean organized networks of couch surfing?

It's been done already.

Re:Linux users

[jedidiah]

That's no less of a problem for the Mac users that this article is about. "Mainstream titles" are either completely unavailable or lag behind. Often they are haphazardly ported and hardware support is inferior to the original. This tends to magnify the problems associated with how Apple likes to ship trailing edge components.

Re:Linux users

[jedidiah]

WiFi just sucks. Laying this at the feet of Linux is like trying to pretend that Flash runs any better on Windows.

If you can't find compatible gear at Fry's, you simply aren't trying.

Re:Linux users

[Agent0013]

"Windows just works!" Except that when I plug in a USB key drive it sometimes works and sometimes needs drivers to work. And my Android device shows up on Linux machines every time with no drivers or anything needed. and I have yet to get my Windows computers to recognize it even when installing the Samsung drivers that are supposedly the correct ones to use.

Re:Linux users

[hazah]

To be fair... gentoo comes with the construction crew too.

Re:Linux users

[Mike Buddha]

Like Debian island, where all the computers are free, but none of them work quite right.

Re:Linux users

[lister king of smeg]

and no netflix which is a must for many people. i use a vm for this but most average joes would have no idea what they are doing trying to build one

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

WiFi just sucks.

Tough shit, it's what everyone else uses. If you can't support it, no-one will care why.

(USB is similar in that regard)

If you can't find compatible gear at Fry's, you simply aren't trying.

I've spend about 40 minutes in front of the shelf with USB WiFi adapters, googling them up on my smartphone one by one to see compat status. In the end, all of them were based on one of the two most common chipsets, and both had problems in Linux - one required ndiswrapper, the other had a free driver but it was not in the kernel so it had to be separately compiled and kept in sync.

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

"Windows just works!" Except that when I plug in a USB key drive it sometimes works and sometimes needs drivers to work. And my Android device shows up on Linux machines every time with no drivers or anything needed. and I have yet to get my Windows computers to recognize it even when installing the Samsung drivers that are supposedly the correct ones to use.

To be more precise, Windows 7 just works. XP is horribly outdated by now, and it shouldn't come as a surprise that it will have issues with hardware.

Your Android device - if it's a Samsung phone, or any ICS phone - uses MTP, so that it doesn't have to unmount internal memory on the phone before letting another OS mount it as an UMS device. MTP works in Vista/7 out of the box, but not in XP. In Linux it depends on your DE. In OS X, you need a third party application.

Re:Linux users

[Agent0013]

Thanks for the informative reply. I am not aware of MTP and most of the Windows computers I have plugged my phone into are XP, but even my wife's laptop with Windows 7 will not recognize the phone as a USB drive nor can I connect to it for development like I do on my Linux machine. It's pretty frustrating as I have only been able to find one computer at a previous place of work where I was able to attempt to root the phone and I am sick of the crap that Samsung has pushed out in their latest updates. In addition I am not able to work on my app while in the living room watching TV with my wife by using her laptop, I can only go up to my linux desktop where things just work!

Plus, regarding the MTP protocol, the phone does need to unmount the SD card before it can be connected to a computer as a USB device. Perhaps that is still a part of the MTP, from reading the link it looks like the main difference is who is handling the file system, the phone or the computer.

Re:Linux users

[RabidReindeer]

To be fair... gentoo comes with the construction crew too.

Yeah, but they go on strike!

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

Plus, regarding the MTP protocol, the phone does need to unmount the SD card before it can be connected to a computer as a USB device. Perhaps that is still a part of the MTP, from reading the link it looks like the main difference is who is handling the file system, the phone or the computer.

If Samsung does it that way, they're doing it wrong (but I don't recall anything like that on my Galaxy S2). This is indeed the main difference between MTP and UMS, but it is also precisely what lets them not unmount. With UMS, both the phone and the desktop OS read device on block level, operating directly on filesystem structures; and no filesystem in common use is designed to be concurrently used - especially updated - by two different OSes that are unaware of each other and have no way to synchronize those writes.

On the other hand, in the case of MTP, the phone is the only one working with SD card as a block device - the desktop OS interacts with it in terms of high-level operations such as "list all files in this directory" or "read this file", which are issued as commands to the phone which then does actual filesystem access to handle them - hence no concurrency issues. On my Galaxy Nexus, at least, I can attach the phone to my PC and copy files while also navigating the same directories in the file manager on the phone itself. Ditto for my Asus Transformer.

Thanks for the informative reply. I am not aware of MTP and most of the Windows computers I have plugged my phone into are XP, but even my wife's laptop with Windows 7 will not recognize the phone as a USB drive nor can I connect to it for development like I do on my Linux machine.

If by "development" you mean USB debugging, than that's a different thing - my understanding is that it is an Android-specific protocol which on Windows does indeed require drivers (but in my experiments stock drivers that come with generic Android SDK worked fine with all my Android devices).

Why it did not get recognized as an MTP device by Win7, though, I have no idea. On the other hand, Samsung devices before S3 were all running Android 2.x out of the box, which didn't have stock MTP support, working as UMS instead - Google only implemented MTP in Honeycomb. So it was Samsung's own implementation, though I don't know if it was backported from Honeycomb or written from scratch. If the latter, I wouldn't be surprised if they messed it up such that it only properly works with their own desktop client.

Re:Linux users

[FirephoxRising]

Until it doesn't, or it loads the wrong drivers and prevents the right ones going in, or does some funny incorrect "filter" stuff in the silly registry and borks the device.

Re:Linux users

[FirephoxRising]

WiFi has improved a lot lately. Common devices including laptops do just work with new distros. Cheap crap may or may not, but often even though they "work" in win7, they're still crap and work like crap.

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

Like I said, from personal experience I haven't seen any of those things that you mention since Vista SP1.

Re:Linux users

[shutdown -p now]

Cheap crap is what is on the shelves in stores, so that's what users will buy. Like I said, it's certainly possible to find hardware that runs Linux perfectly, especially if you order online. But you need to know to do it. A typical non-techie user will not.

Re:Linux users

[bdabautcb]

I dosed some homework yesterday too, when my dog and I shared the external usb hardrive from which I am running xubuntu. seriously though, (currently) and some other version from on a 2008 hp mini for over a year. minor video and audio issues, but was able to solve as a new user relatively quickly with a bit of google searching and forum digging. more time than grandma would spend, but i am a nerd so it was fun for me and didn't take up too much of my time. I also learned a lot. Other than occasionally dropping my external HD and causing a failure, which I have been able to fix with a reboot or reinstall (backing up important lab and work data so unless i drop while in the lab, not a big problem) it has been exemplary. slightly worried about the affect I've had on the USB hard drive, yet i probably will stick with linux on my next desktop.

Re:Linux users

[justforgetme]

Clearly it will have to be a distributed authority.

Re:Linux users

[hazah]

Not really. They just don't work for free.

So wait ...

[MilwaukeeMadAss]

If that's the case, then what is displayed first for PC users?

Re:So wait ...

[CanHasDIY]

Directions to the nearest soup kitchen.

Suprised This Doesn't Happen More Often

[rsmith-mac]

To be honest I'm surprised we don't see this kind of thing more often. Not just on travel sites, but on any kind of site that doesn't have strict MSRP pricing such as Amazon. Certain platforms absolutely attract certain demographics, and unlike tracking/profiling you don't have to spend time building as profile as all of this data is conveniently offered up by the browser with page requests.

Re:Suprised This Doesn't Happen More Often

[TheMathemagician]

What's the problem anyway? Mac owners are demonstrably willing to pay for over-priced goods and services. Just good marketing.

Re:Suprised This Doesn't Happen More Often

[DerekLyons]

To be honest I'm surprised we don't see this kind of thing more often. Not just on travel sites, but on any kind of site that doesn't have strict MSRP pricing such as Amazon.

Except Amazon doesn't have strict MSRP pricing - they've been using variable pricing for years.

XP? Why stop there?

[davidbrit2]

Change it to Windows ME, and you can get the senior discounts.

Re:XP? Why stop there?

[rullywowr]

Change it to Windows ME, and you can get the senior discounts.

Unfortunately users will have to reboot 3-10 times, call their grandchildren, and change their Depends undergarments to get the discount and complete the transaction due to multiple BSOD.

Re:XP? Why stop there?

[antdude]

Nah, 3.1. Time to boot up my VMs! ;)

In other news

[DarkOx]

Study shows people driving luxury cars tended to park them outside nicer restaurants

Re:In other news

[Anomalyst]

If you can call straddling 3 spaces at the perimeter parking.
captcha="DEPENDS"

Re:In other news

[toriver]

Well, for a luxury product it sells like hotcakes, and generally costs the same as EQUIVALENT build quality PCs.

This is a "Mac is butter, PC is margarine" situation. Apple products seem expensive because Apple do not operate in the low-price segment. Is a Ferrari expensive? Hard to say since they do not have cheap cars to compete with other cheap cars.

But of course

[inode_buddha]

All those interior designers have to get paid, and show off each other's work!

Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

1) MAC User may be more affluent. It's not always the case, but most of the time there's probably a lot of credit card debt associated with the individual as well.
2) Most of them are clueless about technology and just want to leave it to someone else. The mentality "it just works" comes to mind but these folks don't shop around. They see their friends with Apple stuff, they buy Apple stuff.
3) Like rounded corners a lot and need to have the latest fashion. Fondleslabs and Mac Books along with Iphones and Ipods are the new jewelry.. It's a status symbol.

So Why wouldn't they go to more expensive hotels where they can show off their bling? I mean honestly, it's not rare to see apple products "In Use" on multiple TV shows, so if the shallow actors are playing with a mac, why can't everybody else? It's really great marketing PR and hype and Orbitz picking up on this is just an astute observation on customer preference. No if you'll excuse me I'm going down to my local Apple store and speak Farsi and try to by a mac book.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[tmosley]

Does it make you feel better about yourself to place people into a box based on a single characteristic, and apply numerous negative characteristics to those people?

It feels so good to be superior to someone else, doesn't it? Especially when that superiority comes from being in line with the majority.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

Superiority? It's an observation just like what the article is about. Orbitz observed the buying habits and determined to give the customer what they wanted. That's pure capitalism right there.

Everybody's buying habits put them into a box. That box is created by the immense amount of Data Mining that goes on for everything you buy or use. Don't believe me, talk to your credit card companies. That data is sold by the truck load to marketing departments and PR organizations and Political Committees everywhere. There's demographics on everybody and by city, neighborhood and even street.

Let's be honest, does Apple make a better product? No Is it more stylish? Perhaps and they are very successful. So is Dell, HP, ASUS, Samsung, Motorola (Google) and others who make good if not better products. Do the customers flock in droves to get those? No, and that's because those companies haven't
really bought into the total Bling Factor as marketing PR.

It has been this way since Apple was first on the market in the 70s and I saw it in the 80s with everything they made. The people who owned it were mostly novice individuals who liked the fact that they didn't have to be techhies to make things work. That's great, and that's a good thing and why Apple's stock (Which I own a few shares) is skyrocketing.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

Did you book through Orbitz? I'm a Hotels.com guy myself.

Yes, I agree. and I'm going out on a limb here and saying that you don't sound like the "Diverse" individual when you mentioned your significant other. You should get with the Political Correctness of our age. It's no longer "opposite sex" it's "partner" or "spouse" I thought all Apple users thought that way? ;-)

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[DogDude]

Who goes to Vegas to soak in a tub...? That's weird.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[DogDude]

I understand that. My point was that if one wanted to bang in a fancy hot tub, one could always just rent a room at the local hotel. Lots of places have fancy hot tubs. Flying to Las Vegas for a soak... well.... that's like going to Paris and eating at McDonald's.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[mikael_j]

Let's be honest, does Apple make a better product? No [...]

Hold on there. What metric are you using? Does it cover all possible use cases or just your own personal (that is, subjective) one?

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[gnasher719]

Let's be honest, does Apple make a better product? No

I'll correct that: In your totally unqualified opinion, does Apple make a better product? No.

Take the new Retina MacBook Pro as an example: It is expensive. Compared to an Alienware laptop with the same processor / SSD, but a bigger display with a lot fewer pixels, with weight and battery life that Dell doesn't dare to tell you, or compared to a nice Sony laptop with the same processor / SSD and a screen with much less good resolution, the Retina MBP is cheaper.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

Personal experience and not only subjective but by observation. I have 3 Sons, All Teenagers and a Wife who likes there IPODs and their IPhones. I've had to replace units sometimes at less than half of their expected product lives, for example: IPOD Nano, received as XMAS Gift in 2011, replaced both by Mid 2012 one with the power switch problem and the other went dead. Had to take them to the Apple Store and wait two days to get replacements.
Oldest Son: IPhone 3G, died after 6 mos.

Me: Xoom Tablet, ASUS Tablet(s), Sony Walkman (Yeah it's old) and HTC EVO phone, 4 Desktops. Oh also an Alienware M17X R2, all running strong.

I work with somebody who's now on a 4 week waiting list for his new Mac Book with the Retina Display. Soldered Memory, One HD Slot and Power Supply Soldered in as well. NFW would I buy that even if it came with a coupon for a free lap dance especially if I had to wait four weeks after giving the manufacturer $$$$ Yeah, I lug the M17XR2 around with me for travel as well and the TSA freaks out every time they see it on the scanner. I had one agent say I had two laptops there, nope just one. So Style? Sorry, Form follows function.

Right now I'm considering an ASUS TF700T to replace the Xoom although the Xoom is great, I thought I'd carry something stylish myself that didn't have an apple logo on it.

After my personal experience with Apple "Quality" which I might add is Foxconn, or one of the other manufacturers, I won't buy another product although they still get money from me for ITunes and other things because unfortunately for my my kids have become this cluster of needy consumers who like bling.

Personal Note to Self: Ship Kids to China when I get home.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

I've had Sony, Toshiba, ASUS and others. All of them have excellent quality and they stand up to a lot of abuse.

I have an Alienware and I'm not looking for portable computing, that's what tablets are for. My Alienware M17X is a portable desktop and yes, it travels quite a bit. Aluminum Case and it definitely is as heavy as a bowling ball. I would love to see better resolution in Laptops since every manufacturer wants to go to 16:9 Aspect Ratio displays and not the 4:3, i.e., the WUXGA which I have now. That's about the only feature I like on the new Mac Book but I'll see that when my coworker gets one after 4 weeks of waiting..

See, what's also funny about this discussion thread is to see all the Apple Fanboys get all butt hurt if somebody says the emperor has no clothes.
Now that's not to start a flamewar, but it's still funny as hell.

Now, I'll go back to working on this Cloud Migration Plan on my old, clunky, big Alienware.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[billius]

1) MAC User may be more affluent. It's not always the case, but most of the time there's probably a lot of credit card debt associated with the individual as well. 2) Most of them are clueless about technology and just want to leave it to someone else. The mentality "it just works" comes to mind but these folks don't shop around. They see their friends with Apple stuff, they buy Apple stuff. 3) Like rounded corners a lot and need to have the latest fashion. Fondleslabs and Mac Books along with Iphones and Ipods are the new jewelry.. It's a status symbol.

So Why wouldn't they go to more expensive hotels where they can show off their bling? I mean honestly, it's not rare to see apple products "In Use" on multiple TV shows, so if the shallow actors are playing with a mac, why can't everybody else? It's really great marketing PR and hype and Orbitz picking up on this is just an astute observation on customer preference. No if you'll excuse me I'm going down to my local Apple store and speak Farsi and try to by a mac book.

Cool story bro! Never mind that no less than four of my CS professors used Macs! Clearly they too are clueless about technology, unlike an enlightened, discerning consumer who buys a Windows laptop because "it's what I have at work, so I'm used to it."

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[ElKry]

I've eaten McDonald's in Paris. It's highly overrated.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

Obviously they didn't teach reading at that school?

"Most of them are clueless..."

I'm not getting into specifics of your CS profs and that would be short sighted. I'll bet you found that quite a few used Macs, some used other things as well.

So yes, there are a lot of moo cows out there who follow the herd mentality.. Next point?

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[billius]

Obviously they didn't teach reading at that school?

"Most of them are clueless..."

I'm not getting into specifics of your CS profs and that would be short sighted. I'll bet you found that quite a few used Macs, some used other things as well.

So yes, there are a lot of moo cows out there who follow the herd mentality.. Next point?

Typically you have to be able to read and write to go to college, so no, they didn't "teach reading" :p

Back to the point of the discussion, Windows is generally accepted to have a market share of around 80-90% and Mac OS X is generally accepted to have a market share of 5-10%. If you were utterly clueless about computers, would you buy a computer that runs an operating system used by most of your friends, colleagues, relatives, etc and is generally cheaper or would you buy a computer that you knew most of your friends, colleagues, etc wouldn't be able to help you with and was generally more expensive? My guess is that you would go for the former (Windows) even if money was no object. This is why my father (who isn't a "computer guy" at all) sticks to Windows.

This also is why I resent the notion that Mac users are "clueless", even when prefaced by wavering modifiers like "most". You've probably guessed by now that I am a Mac user (well at home anyway). My main hobby is recording music and my decision to buy a Mac was greatly informed by positive experiences I had recording music on my brother's Mac, which was much more stable and adept at detecting and using my recording interface and midi controllers than my computer at the time, which ran Windows. I also really liked the fact that underneath it all, Mac OS X is Unix. So I saved up some money and when the time was right, I bought a Macbook Pro. That was four years ago and my computer is still running perfectly fine and doing all the things I want it to.

The thing about my story is that it's not terribly unique. I can honestly say that *everyone* I know who switched to using a Mac from Windows did so after researching their options and doing a cost-benefit analysis. Compare this to the majority of Windows users I know, who use Windows because "it's what everyone else uses".

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Darinbob]

Even if you're right, those tendencies lead people to spend more money. Their friends stay at nicer hotels, not Motel 6, therefore they want to stay at the nicer hotels. They don't want to have to deal with the hassle of finding out what ameneties a hotel has, so they buy a more expensive one that they're pretty sure has everything. These people are not necessarily richer than others but they are definitely less concerned about finding bargains.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Darinbob]

Orbitz starts with an O. Thus rounded corners. Hotels.com starts with an H and is very spiky. You must be a spiky Windows guy.

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

So Windows guys are Spiky? Is that even spell checked correctly? Not casting aspersions here because I don't really use that in a sentence much. I will refer to my Libre Office dictionary here. So are you by your analogy referring that Orbitz is used because they use OSX? Since the Mac Books for quite sometime have been Wintel based what does O/S selection have to do with it? It's the physical status symbol, for all I know that preppy chick at the local Starbucks is probably running BEOS!

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[Virtucon]

Well isn't that what the article was about, how Orbitz ranked preferences based on O/S type, aka OSX in this case? So, they have done the analysis
and found that interestingly enough OSX Mac Users like to spend more on hotels. We have a correlation and they're giving the customer what they want. I think you can say that expensive restaurants in LA also have valet parking and will usually have very expensive cars there too. It's all about the partitioning of the consumer into their preferences and bubbling up those preferences to what you may be interested in. To most of us, this would represent a good example of a Machine Learning algorithm done right. The downside is that, like Amazon, you're now going to get e-mails for the rest of your life for products you were interested or bought years ago. That's an example of a dumb algorithm, why? Because when my kids were young I'd buy them software, like Putt Putt goes to X (fill in x) or Where in the world is Carmen San Francisco. The problem is that periodically Amazon will send me one of their marketing ploys that say "People who were interested in Childrens Games." Pfft, that was over 15 years ago! The point being that once your analyzed, categorized and put into a particular box you stay there forever. How the hell doesn't Amazon know I want "Ultra Porn?" wait, that would be a bad thing because even if I looked for that on their site, I would be receiving "People who were interested in Ultra Porn might want to buy Carmen San Francisco takes on putt putt in hot four wheel action!"

And what the hell is wrong with Motel 6? Tom Bodette will get you!

Re:Confirms what a lot of us know already.

[mikael_j]

Well, when it comes to products breaking that doesn't really mirror the experience I've had. The only issue I've had there has been with my iPhone 4 which had to be replaced to due hardware defects (broken headphone jack out of the box the first time, didn't notice until after a few days, broken touchscreen on the second one, experienced "ghost clicks" after just a few days). But compared to other cellphones I've owned this is nothing, I've owned a "rugged" phone that was supposed to also be waterproof, within six months of buying it several parts were quite literally falling off (so much for waterproof). I've also owned a couple of Nokia smartphones which had some pretty major issues (one that I had to restart every few days or it would complain about running out of RAM when receiving incoming calls).

As for the retina MBP, yeah, that one is clearly not for everyone. I'm personally on the fence about it. I wouldn't buy one as a "toy" machine but as my main workstation I just might. I rarely upgrade my main machine anyway and high resolution plus portability is a huge plus. Not sure I'd say it's worse than your run-of-the-mill Ultrabook though.

And I'd rather take a single Apple logo on my laptop over the the mass of branding that comes with a lot of other laptops. My current work laptop has two Dell logos and "Dell Precision M4400" written on it. It also came with an impressive amount of stickers that I spent around 30 minutes carefully peeling off. The same is true of other laptops as well, my "secure" netbook (Lenovo Ideapad with an encrypted Debian install) had the same issue when I received it, so many stickers (that you need to carefully remove with a razor since they clearly don't intend for you to remove them)...

Is anyone really surprised?

[onyxruby]

Really, is anyone seriously surprised by this? People who value convenience and having someone provide a service for them instead of doing something themselves might hold those same values for other things like paying for hotels. In other words people who are willing to pay 30% more for hardware might be willing to pay 30% more for other things too!!!

Marketers have figured this out. Next big surprise, organic shopping markets are full of Lexus and Mercedes cars? I think this really advanced concept might have been taught in the second week of marketing 101, maybe?

Re:Is anyone really surprised?

[tmosley]

They aren't paying 30% more for the hardware, they are paying 30% more for an OS that wasn't cobbled together by retarded monkeys in India.

It's not that Mac is so great, it's just that Microsoft sucks donkey balls, and Linux takes too long to learn. If a company made an OS that had the ease of use, functionality, and security of Mac combined with the versatility of Windows and the price of Linux, you can bet that would come to dominate the world quite quickly. But that is HARD to do.

Re:Is anyone really surprised?

[onyxruby]

Good point, I should have added Toyota Prius's and Smart cars. Don't see a lot of electric cars around just yet...

Re:Is anyone really surprised?

[onyxruby]

The 30% represents the service. In this case the service is the Operating System. I think in effect we are saying the same thing. Since much of the hardware is commodity hardware, you could look at the cost differential as the cost of the Mac OS.

Re:Is anyone really surprised?

[tmosley]

Please expound. I have only seen Android on tablets and Netbooks. I would be quite willing to consider it if it really is that versatile.

Re:Is anyone really surprised?

[danbob999]

The Apple will fail first. The cheap plastic ones will survive better (the case might break but the circuits will be more protected because of the absorbtion of the plastic). Alluminium might look great but that's not the best material for survavibility in a drop test.
There is an exception to that : a laptop with a SSD will always survive longer to that test since the HDD will be the first thing to break.

Apple is the most expensive brand of laptop and isn't even the most reliable, as shown by studies such as this one:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53733771/Square-Trade-Laptop-Reliability-1109

Apple do a bit better than the average, but their laptops cost much more. The study also says that premium laptops (>$1000) last longer. Given that Apple only sells premium laptops, we could except them to win hands down but isn't even the case as both Asus and Toshiba get a better score, and both of them sell cheap laptops.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[GameboyRMH]

Mac fanboys seem to drive either tiny eco-cars or huge blinged-out pickups, judging by where I see the Apple stickers.

Thatâ(TM)s entirely reasonable and the future

[Karmashock]

Thatâ(TM)s entirely reasonable and the future of Web 2.0.

Web 1.0 is you watching the web.

Web 2.0 is the web watching you watch the web.

Itâ(TM)s not all bad. It can work for you. All it takes is a little bit of integrity on the part of the web devs. Bad people will watch you to exploit you. Good people will watch you to help you.

You can never remove the human element.

As to whether people are directed at pricier hotels⦠is that all? Are they they same only more expensive? Are they the same hotels with worse rates?

Itâ(TM)s possible that the system assumes these people are willing to pay for a nicer experience. Thatâ(TM)s not entirely reasonable because windows users are hardly the dirty unwashed rabble of the net. But you do pay a premium for Macs⦠between 20 and 60 percent higher prices for a technically similar system. Is it unfair to conclude that the user might likewise appreciate a nicer room and be willing to pay a premium for it?

That is very web 2.0. And itâ(TM)s good if itâ(TM)s right. When I look to buy something on line isnâ(TM)t it better if the system knows what I actually want and shows me that rather then showing me what other people wanted?

It will get more sophisticated over time. This is what the social network sites and google especially are trying to crack. They want to be able to data mine your email, your search history, your book marks, your reading patterns, your hobbies, your political opinions, your sense of humor⦠everything. Crunch it in some sort of database and output with a high level of reliability products and services you will not only appreciate but will buy because you actually want them.

Imagine if the system knows everything about you. They know where you work. They know how much youâ(TM)re paid. They know who youâ(TM)re in a relationship with. They know what sorts of partners you like. They know what sort of friends you like. They know what sort of food you like.

The dream of the system is that youâ(TM)ll wake up one morning and the system will say âoeweâ(TM)ve noticed that your employer is paying you 10k less a year then a job opening that would be perfect for you in a position youâ(TM)ll find more rewarding. Click yes to send an automatically compiled resume along with an automatically generated list of times youâ(TM)re available to have an interview. The instant you break up with a girl friend you get a text message that says âoeWeâ(TM)re sorry to hear your last relationship didnâ(TM)t work out. X has been matched to your profile and is open for dinner tonight. Press Yes to automatically arrange reservations at a restaurant that you will enjoy and is affordable on your budget.

Etc.

Now making all of that work properly is monstrously complicated, it creeps everyone out because theyâ(TM)re paranoid about people knowing too much about them, and of course bad people not only could but absolutely will use this information to try and exploit you if they get it.

So making all of this work is a challenge. But this is the goal. Again, best practice is to look for win/win scenarios where the company succeeds because they actually did you a favor you actually appreciate. Bad people or lazy people looking for shortcuts will try to avoid all this but over time people are really only going to open up to organizations they trust. The problem with the data mining going on now is that it has to be somewhat secretive because no one trusts the dotcoms to respect their data. And the only real way to change that impression is to be worthy of that trust. They need to take sacred oaths to this effect. Iâ(TM)m not exaggerating. Literally. The same sort anyone in a position of real trust takes one way or another. Just like doctors or spouses. Youâ(TM)re entering into a contract that supersedes the law. Itâ(TM)s hand over heart territory.

First dotcom that takes that sort of oath,

Paywall?

[nashv]

How do you know if the WSJ article isn't paywalled just for Mac users? Works ok for me.

Linux users

[goombah99]

Linux users would be given the address of a home depot, a list of vacant lot sites, and a "makefile" for building a hotel. Unfortunately, there would be library dependencies with links to unmaintained building codes.

Fir incredibly cheap deals try

[maroberts]

User-Agent: Lynx/2.8.7rel.2 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/1.0.0a

or:

User-Agent: NCSA_Mosaic/3.0 (Windows 95)

Re:Fir incredibly cheap deals try

[Snarfangel]

When I use Lynx, I get offers of campgrounds and tents.

Who uses Orbitz?

[gstrickler]

And no matter what service you use, why would you not view by price unless you're looking for something so specific that price won't really be an option?

Buy a Mac, be labeled as a Yuppie!

[na1led]

This is why I don't buy fancy cars, or fancy clothes. Everyone judges you buy your looks and what you have, and ready to stiff you when they can!

Re:Buy a Mac, be labeled as a Yuppie!

[El Torico]

Everyone is still judging you even if you don't have a nice car and nice clothes. They'll try to stiff you too, but for different reasons.

But ...

[PPH]

... Windows users' rooms are crawling with bugs.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[jo_ham]

Mac fanboys seem to drive either tiny eco-cars or huge blinged-out pickups, judging by where I see the Apple stickers.

In other words, as much as the haters would like to think, there isn't a single type of Apple user, just as not all Linux users live in their parents' basements, or that all Xbox Live users are 12 years old think that calling something "gay" is the most insulting thing on the planet.

Funny, that.

My Firefox agent string says

[Compaqt]

C= 64

They showed me Motel 6 listings.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[Lumpy]

Judging where I see MAC's in the home, they drive Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, and BMW. I do home automation and high end Theaters. Not many rich people have PC's in their home, they all pretty much are iMac and Macbook.

But then I only do this as my day job and have seen only a few thousand homes of rich people. I am certain you came to your conclusion by seeing millions of cars with apple stickers on them.

P.S. Rich people tend to not put stickers on their cars.

Advertorial

[CrackedButter]

This is great advertising for orbitz btw, all the Mac sites are spunking up over this news.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[DogDude]

No, you're missing the point. Apple customers are into conspicuous consumption.

Re:Fleece the suckers

[arkane1234]

No, that's alienware. Apple hardware isn't shiny, it's actually quite non-reflective aside from the monitors.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[DogDude]

You're just seeing the rich people who are into buying ridiculous things (like home automation and home theaters). Not all rich people are into blowing money on silly stuff like Apple products, expensive cars, etc. I know a lot of very wealthy people who look and act just like regular people.

Re:This is a terrible policy

[arkane1234]

So you're saying that a Mac users' disposable income is about $1-2k total?

Re:This is a terrible policy

[GodfatherofSoul]

I couldn't find the article from yesterday about Apple store workers not making a lot of money. Kind of ruined my joke w/o the link.

Non-Paywalled Article

[JustAnotherIdiot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18595347

Re:If that's the case...

[m.ducharme]

No no, that's "free as in beer". They get "free/libre" rooms, with no locks on the doors. The room itself is free, but you have to pay for a support package for as long as you use the room.

You lucky lucky bastard

[maroberts]

When I use Lynx I get offered cardboard box in the middle of the motorway...
[/python]

Paywall

[slasho81]

What's the point of linking to a paywalled article? I know we're not supposed to read the articles, but come on...

Re:Brilliant

[toriver]

What "premium for the logo"? We pay "premium" for the aluminum body, the Magsafe power connector, that excellent screen and an OS that is not total shit. Quality is not cheap, and we do not expect it to be.

Envious Dell and HP users should instead try and find out why Dell and HP have been unable to muster the same brand loyalty.

Re:This isnt surprising.

[toriver]

More of the same cud-chewing ignorance from those that do not get it. Are you arguing there should be only one brand for every product because that is all that is needed, or are you arguing all products of a given type should cost the same? You are making about as much sense as the "if you download Linux you are downloading communism!" crowd.

Re:This isn't about pricing

[jo_ham]

No, you're missing the point. Apple customers are into conspicuous consumption.

Again, you're generalising. I know several Apple users who are not "into conspicuous consumption" - myself included. I also know one or two Windows users who are.

I'm also not sure how hotel room booking is meant to be "conspicuous consumption". Do you invite strangers to come and look at the room that you booked?

Re:Brilliant

[knarf]

Envious Dell and HP users should instead try and find out why Dell and HP have been unable to muster the same brand loyalty.

I think you should really turn your own question around:

Why are you loyal to a brand? Why do you feel the need to support a commercial operation which has a singular stated goal, namely to make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible - in other words to maximise profits? That is a very un-capitalistic thing to do. In a free market you - being a consumer - should not show any loyalty at all towards brands, manufacturers, suppliers or merchants. The market only works if both sides try to maximise their profits. You, as a loyal Apple follower, seem to have forgotten this. You show loyalty towards a market participant who takes the chance to make more money from you while spending less because he knows you won't go to the competition anyway - you are a loyal follower after all.

It seems to me those HP and Dell buyers understand something you don't: in a free market you are only as free as you allow yourself to be. Showing loyalty to a brand is the Stockholm syndrome of free market capitalism.

Travel site pricing all over the map

[jonespg]

I want to see if others have experienced travel sites changing prices, e.g. removing seats after your third or fourth search for same route, same date even two months ahead of time. Sure, the seats could be disappearing, but in my unqualified and uninformed opinion, I think they probably raise the price when they know how inelastic your demand is (how bad you need that flight). I know prices vary slightly by weekday; I'm talking a 24 hour period. Any thoughts?

There's nothing here, let's move on.

[cundare]

Seriously, you've got to read the article, not just the silly Slashdot summary, before commenting on it. This is IMO a non-issue spun into something "compelling." There appears to be nothing discriminatory (at least in the "bad" sense of the word) going on. The software is simply ranking search results based on a buying-pattern characteristic of a particular user class. Users connecting through Mac clients apparently more often choose one class of goods that has a particular characteristic, so the search engine first displays results that more closely match preferences of such users. Big deal. Nobody's insulting you because you own a Mac. And for that matter, nobody's insulting you because you own a PC.