Windows 7 Overtakes XP, OSX Struggles To Beat Vista

judgecorp writes "Latest market share figures show the difference between perception and reality. Windows 7 just nudged past Windows XP with both around the the 43 percent mark. OS X and Windows Vista divide the rest of the spoils, with all versions of OS X only just adding up to a little more than the failed Windows version, according to data from Netmarketshare."

Comments

OS X is THE superior OS

[Mr.Wka]

I've only used OS X during the current year but I have to say it is beautiful OS. You can see that it's light years better than Linux and even Windows.

Why OS X isn't more popular then? Because Apple has no low quality products, and OS X comes with Apple's quality hardware. Not everyone has the money to buy them. Sad, for them.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

"Not everyone has the money to buy them. Sad, for them."

That's the kind of dumb, elitist comment that shows what a tool you are. Perhaps people don't see the point in paying extortionist fees for an OS and hardware that doesn't do anything that their current OS does and is typically of lesser performance.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ciderbrew]

Apple also has no "non over-priced" products. I'm so bored of the what OS is better. It's a pile of files. The software you need to use is the real reason you use a computer, not because you want to use an OS. All marketing "make a demographic" back when software was in its infancy bullshit. I've got windows7 and do very little windowing.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[notb666]

You my friend truly know nothing about operating systems. Sad, for you!

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Dupple]

This is the first comment you've made on slashdot - very poor effort. It's not even good shilling.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

It's getting to the point with you brainwashed Apple fans where I HAVE the mod points, but your post isn't even inspiring me to mod you down as a blatant shill. It's not inspiring me to do anything more than just roll my eyes and make this snarky reply, in fact.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[nysus]

I don't view their pricing as extortionist by any stretch. Sure there is probably a couple hundred dollar premium you pay on their lower end products and about a $1000 premium on their highest end products (fully loaded MacBook Pro retina).

But people expect to pay a premium for the best. Not everyone likes to shop at Wal-Mart looking for the lowest-priced piece of shit. Are Apple's prices higher? Certainly. But do they deliver a better product? In my opinion, absolutely.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[GeekWithAKnife]

Agreed. In fact as soon as we move to do everything via browser an OS will be as talked about as a BIOS...it's there, it allocated memory, the drivers load it runs a browser, win. The days of the desktop OS are numbered, even if it's still a few years off. Microsoft see it, this is why they are moving all the office package "to the cloud". OS independent. Innovate or die.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[hazydave]

MacOS X is a taste, that's all -- neither better nor worse for everyone. Your preference.

My 18 year old daughter has had full exposure to both Windows and MacOS X; the Windows PC on her desktop, the MacBook Pro was a loaner for the last two years at High School, part of a Communications specialty program.

When it came time for a laptop for college, she wanted Windows. She's no computer expert, just a regular user, doing everyday stuff: games, word processing, photos, internet. And video... she liked video editing on the PC better. Largely because her Mac was just terrible at it. It didn't handle native video editing from her AVCHD camcorder, while her Windows PC did, easily. She did all her editing on the Mac in either DV (which worked dandy in any Windows editor back in the 90s) or in Apple's "iFrame" format, which is basically a chopped down qHD (960x540), I-Frame only. This is the format Apple actually "invented", since they couldn't deal with actual HD video, other than to transcode to ProRes, which they only support in Final Cut Pro (she ran Final Cut Express on the Mac).

Tragically, the school she just went off to (Montclair University) is still using Final Cut Pro in their Broadcasting department, so they strongly recommended a Mac PC. I had found a great 3rd generation i7-based laptop from Asus: metal casework, four USB 3.0, 8GB RAM, 750GB HDD, 1920x1080 display, separate graphics, etc. for $1100. Having to switch to a Mac, I manged to find a slower 2nd generation i7, only two USB 2.0 + Thunderbolt (good idea, but currently fairly useless), 4GB RAM, 1600x900 display, slower separate graphics, 750GB HDD, etc. for "only" $1800. That was a factory-refurbished model (this the "discount" price), and they screwed up and delivered an 8GB unit. But seriously -- you're paying twice as much just to get MacOS. Plus, add-in the $100 extra to put Windows on the system, and, well... have to wait on that new electric guitar.

Apple makes decent hardware. But so do many other companies -- after all, cool casework has been about the only innovation in personal computers for the last 10 years; everything else has been predictable, incremental growth. Apple's well known to be making 5x as much profit per PC shipped as just about anyone else. If you must have MacOS, it's the price you pay, but there's no basis for any technical belief Apple's making a superior product, HW or OS.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ciderbrew]

Then you must be making rather a lot of money. If you put an HP badge on it you'd not think that I bet.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[hydromike2]

lazy

Sent from my iPhone

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Native software will always have significant advantages over web apps. That being the case there's no reason to assume we'll ever do everything via the browser.

Universal thin clients is as old and unfullfilled a prediction as "The year of Linux on the desktop". And you think Microsoft's vision of the future adds any weight? Ha ha.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I would be interested to see what she thinks after Windows 8 comes out.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[wa2flq]

"Not everyone has the money to buy them. Sad, for them."

Most of us on the other hand don't have the Time or Money to waste trying to use, fix and secure Redmond's pathetic products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_economy

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Chrisq]

The software you need to use is the real reason you use a computer, not because you want to use an OS.

I'm a kernel hacker, you insensitive clod.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ciderbrew]

I'm no fan of web apps. like it all local. apart from office, the software I use is neither made by Windows or Mac and if I were to use word or excel on OS whatever I'd would not matter.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Sir_Sri]

probably the same as everyone else, that windows 7 will get the job done until someone in microsoft picks a single design and sticks with it for windows 9.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[RazorSharp]

But seriously -- you're paying twice as much just to get MacOS.

This is something I have to explain over and over: OS X is nice, but I pay twice as much for the trackpad. I can't use a non-Mac laptop without plugging in a mouse.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Sir_Sri]

The question isn't whether or not everything will move to a thin client, it's whether or not a significant chunk of users can do everything they need in a web browser.

Also, as per the article, MS still has 90% of the desktop market, their vision very much matters, especially as they creep into the mobile space, because they really could completely re-envision the desktop-laptop-mobile relationship. Not necessarily for the better of course, but they certainly can change things a lot.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does that matter?

It's a windows version that isn't going to succeed for desktop computing and everyone besides Microsoft knows that. I'd honestly be surprised if most of Microsoft didn't know that and just got a phone/tablet touch UI pushed on them by some high up idiot trying to compete with apple at the expense of their real business.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ZosX]

Light years ahead?? How? OS X is one of the least customizable OS's out there. Its apple's way or the highway. Seriously, what does it do that windows can't??

Apple's quality hardware??

You mean the exact same hardware that gets used to make Windows PCs? Apple gave up its exotic hardware long ago. Now its just a basic intel board you can buy for half the cost of what apple is going to sell it to you for.

Next you'll be telling me that os x is magical. God you apple fans live in a fantasy world.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Also, as per the article, MS still has 90% of the desktop market, their vision very much matters

It matters, in that lots of people use Windows and their vision affects the direction that goes. But their vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong. You speak of mobile: they've been losing ground on mobile for years.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

OS X comes with Apple's quality hardware. Not everyone has the money to buy them. Sad, for them.

Some have the sense to build a hackintosh with the exact same parts for $500 instead of paying $1500. Others take apart the apple box to find that the hardware is fairly pedestrian and common. Then the disillusionment starts to set in...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X is one of the least customizable OS's out there. Its apple's way or the highway.

The fanbois think this is a *good thing*, like the iOS walled garden (coming to OSX soon will be welcomed with open arms).

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Apple also has no "non over-priced" products. I'm so bored of the what OS is better. It's a pile of files. The software you need to use is the real reason you use a computer, not because you want to use an OS. All marketing "make a demographic" back when software was in its infancy bullshit. I've got windows7 and do very little windowing.

Whats funny is that 99% of people spend 99% of their time in an application, not sitting in the operating system. Although I'm fully prepared to argue that I've used every major operating system produced in the last 20 years...and they're all pretty much the freaking same once you spend 3 days on it and get used to it.

So sitting in safari on a mac vs chrome on windows. Office apps on a mac vs office apps on windows. Any difference at all? Really? I guess at that point you get reduced to claiming that only an apple trackpad suits you. It doesn't really, but its a fairly pathetic thing to cling to as a last ditch effort to justify the higher cost.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[danomac]

Someone at work was asking me about laptops. She was in the Apple store looking at a new Air and the price tag (I believe it was $1200.) She currently has some run-of-the-mill Dell that's 5 years old.

She was asking if a disk drive was required, and I said to install most software you'd have to buy a USB DVD drive. No big deal. But she also owned Photoshop and whatever Adobe video processing software for Windows. I told her she'd either have to re-buy Windows or buy native Mac versions of her programs. I also said for that $1200 you can get a really well-equipped laptop (her current PC is a desktop) and you wouldn't have to re-buy everything. I told for for even $700 you could get a decent laptop that would run the programs.

Her conclusion? "Macs are too expensive. I like my iPhone, but not enough to buy a Mac computer."

This is someone who doesn't understand technology that much. If someone like that thinks it's too expensive, then it probably is...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lyran74]

Slashdot community, how is an anti-Apple post rated 5 Insightful, and an Apple defence post rated 0 Troll?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardware-wise, Macs are 2 generations behind. Apple's not even trying in the desktop market.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[xs650]

The software you need to use is the real reason you use a computer, not because you want to use an OS.

I see you haven't met many Apple Fanbois.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[interval1066]

Apple also has no "non over-priced" products.

And that's my show for tonight folks. Catch me on Comedy Central.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[fermion]

Not everyone can afford a 52" LCD TV. Not everyone can afford a Mercedes GLK. Not everyone can afford a french door stainless steel refrigerator.

The median family in the US make around $50K or less a year, while the median house is more in the range of $200K. This means the median family cannot afford the median house.

Perhaps a quarter of homes do not have a computer, so is it elitist for those of who can own a computer to so do?

What one has depends on two variables: what one can earn and how one allocated the resources. When I was a kid i did not have a nice pair of jeans or a pair of Jordans but I did have an Apple computer. The only reason this sounds elitist is that so many people think these highly popular consumer products are an entitlement. It is like parents clamoring that a toy has been sold out for christmas. I know kids are very demanding but really. We should have some perspective here. There are all sorts of thing we cannot afford or cannot have. Life goes on.

What is elitist is thinking not being able to afford a Mac is the most critical problem one has.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[atriusofbricia]

Slashdot community, how is an anti-Apple post rated 5 Insightful, and an Apple defence post rated 0 Troll?

While not being sure as to which posts you're referring to, it might have something to do with Apple acting like a bunch of egotistical asses for the last few years (more so than usual).

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[spooje]

Actually she wouldn't have to buy Photoshop and whatever video processing software for Windows again. You just need to call up Adobe and they'll give you new serial codes for the Mac version of a product you've legally registered.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[atriusofbricia]

Agreed. In fact as soon as we move to do everything via browser an OS will be as talked about as a BIOS...it's there, it allocated memory, the drivers load it runs a browser, win.

The days of the desktop OS are numbered, even if it's still a few years off. Microsoft see it, this is why they are moving all the office package "to the cloud". OS independent. Innovate or die.

Innovate or die is a good idea. The rest, not so much. It reminds me of the person that recently said to me that we could move all our servers to "the cloud" and never have to worry about hardware again. It isn't for everyone or everything. Little apps, relatively speaking, can run in the browser and such. Big heavy apps which need real power cannot or if they can they end up needing far more power on the client side to run well.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ColdWetDog]

The problem with your analysis is that you've put the cart before the horse. Or, more accurately, the OS before the applications.

Your friend wants to run Adobe stuff. It runs on either OS X or Windows. She has the Windows versions. She is price sensitive. She has no major beef with her current application loader (er, OS).

Yep, the no brainer advice is to keep her on the Windows platform. Because of the apps. (As an aside, it's a moderate PITA to switch out operating systems for Adobe Creative Suite products. Totally amazing here in the 21st Century, but there you have it.)

But good luck finding a Dell that actually competes with an Air in terms of wieght, size and performance. Of course, if she's doing video, then she does not want an Air - she wants a fairly beefy high end laptop. A laptop that is sold by Apple, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, probably HP and bog knows who else. Your best technical advise to here would be 'you want something with a bit more horsepower than an Air - here are a bunch of choices.

The OS is a minor issue.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[youn]

Don't worry, next year is the year of linux on the desktop (or so have I been told for the last 10 years :p)... all the people without money are in for a treat lol

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Kjella]

Apple also has no "non over-priced" products.

If you look at their product lineup and try building an equivalent Windows machine, occasionally they do. If you start with what you need and then try to pick the closest Mac fulfilling those needs, then they mostly don't. I wish Apple would dare to kill their workstation segment by offering a "normal" Mac, no micro, no all-in-one, no workstation with Xeons and ECC ram. A normal mid-tower that runs an i7-3770K on a Z77 motherboard with OS X on it. If they can charge $2500 for a Mac Pro, I'm sure they could sell one for $1500 and get away with it.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Whats funny is that 99% of people spend 99% of their time in an application ..."

Actually, what's funny is that 99% of all viruses spend their time in Windows, but you still have the audacity to say that it is six of one and one half of the other. That takes a special combination of balls and stupidity, my friend.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[NatasRevol]

Also, you're ignorant of how most software these days comes for a Mac. It's on a disk image. Download & install. Even the OS. No need for a DVD drive. The most common use for mine? Installing Windows software in Parallels.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[foniksonik]

Or maybe you completely biased her against a Mac with misinformation.

First you don't need a USB DVD (optical drive) to install anything anymore ever. That's just dumb. Every software is available for download. Office to Adobe to drivers to games.

Second, if she has a windows system, a Mac support person will copy that over to a bootcamp partition as part of the sale. No loss of any software, she'd only have to re-register/put in license keys (new hardware and all that Windows stuff).

Then for $70 she could get VMware or Parallels added to allow direct access without leaving OS X.

She is NOT going to find an ultra book equivalent to an Air for $700. Sure she can get another run-of-the-mill laptop (don't kid yourself, of course it's better because it's new but it's still going to be a generic Windows laptop).

I suspect that with a very little hand holding this person would have been ecstatic with an Air and is now just going to be ho-hum satisfied.

Good job taking her down a notch and helping her accept mediocrity.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[TheDarkMaster]

Is still elitist - and very, very dumb - to buy a overpriced OS and the overpriced companion hardware to do the same thing that any reasonably good pc can do.

And why elitist? Because almost everyone who buys a Mac or a "IThing" is to show that he has money to throw away and so is rich, and the only social group that throws money away is the supposed "elite".

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me interrupting but osx has definitely a lot more to offer than win x, depending on who's using it for which purpose. I'm a video editor and since I work with Mac I do not need to maintain my computer constantly, have a quite environment and everything works all the time. I have 7 desktop macs and 10 macbook pros. Maintainance is around 3hours a month. All under heavy use. No crashes. I will never go back to windows for that reason. I am happy to pay the extra price but then again: the machines run for years and years flawlessly under heavy video production load. So...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[foniksonik]

Yes and you can put a high end motor in a compact car (rice rocket) - doesn't make it a high end car. The fit and finish, the wholistic integration of the components - that is what makes a product high quality, not the components themselves.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Try sharing an Internet connection on windows. Microsoft didn't just drop the ball, they dug a hole and buried it. It takes me less than a minute to share an Ethernet connection over wifi on Mac. Windows 7 couldn't do it natively. I had to install third party software. Then right at the end of the install, BSOD.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[fast turtle]

I've been forced to look at this issue myself in regards to tablets. Yes the iPad is pretty damn nice but you know what, the only thing it has going for it is the Retina Display. As to battery capacity, sure it lasts longer but that's due to the larger battery (check the specs).

What's pushed me towards the Acer over the iPad is software. Everything I use will run on the Acer because it's Win7 like my desktop. Thus I don't have to find alternatives that work the same on both with one only being available from the APP Store with all the problems about updates and such.

Even in the workstation class, Apple isn't anybetter then Dell or HP. In fact, since Apple moved to Intel, they're really no better. The old G5 Mac Pro workstations are still the better choice if you need number crunching because they're a true 64bit CPU unlike the AMD/Intel offering which is only 48bit capable. The 64bit support is only for (memory) address space.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

Only a small percentage of users will ever run a "big heavy app", and then likely only on one of their computers.

It amazes me to see /.ers still protesting "thin clients will never happen" and in the next breath extoll the virtues of their latest tablet. How long till tablets and other thin clients pass traditional PC sales? How long till the count of "thin" apps sold passes the count of traditional software units sold? Heck, how long to Angry Birds alone has more installs than any other game (or has that already happened)?

Thin clients and browesr-based apps won't soon the the primary environment for a geek, or for someone who runs a "big heavy app" professionally. So what? That's a very thin corner of the market.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ciderbrew]

Virus blar blar. click yes to install.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

In other words, it is due to /. groupthink and nothing to do with the relevance of each post to the discussion at hand. Like most moderation here lately.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

Bullshit. Most viruses spend their time in an appilcation as well. Java Runtime exploits. Acrobat Reader exploits. Flash exploits. The current versions of all the common OSs have converged on the same security model - there's no treal difference there.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[ciderbrew]

and if they did, I may have bought it. If they let me put me own together for $1000 then I'd have two.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Yup. The apple trackpad is worth paying for. Even if you're going to run windows on it. Carrying a mouse and keyboard around with your portable computer because the built in gear is awful is fucking retarded.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Compare an HP folio to an MBA and tell me which one is better value. From memory they're actually around the same price, and I've used both. The trackpad on the folio is garbage. It is not available with any other storage than a 128gb SSD, and has single channel memory.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

Since you don't know the difference between a virus and a trojan you don't belong here.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Everything old is new again. Back in the 80s and previous we all ran thin clients back to a mainframe. That sucked then, and thin clients back to "the cloud" will suck in comparison to what proper desktop hardware will be able to offer in future, too.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Scr4tchFury]

You may want to check if you can get Windows for free from the University. Depending on their Microsoft license, they may allow you to install it for academic use.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

Use your head before you post there spanky. The attack vector is via applications. They run on the OS. If the OS had nothing to do with it, then there would be just as many viruses on OS X and Linux as on Windows.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Your angry birds example is neither a thin client app, or originally browser based. The ipad / modern tablet is not strictly a thin client device - it has a lot more processing power than desktops from a few years ago in a device much much smaller.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Osgeld]

yea your paying 1000$ extra for a slower machine than the walmart box

not all of us are looking for the prettiest computer, the nicest tennis shoes and the blingiest bling

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Find me a PC with a decent trackpad. And Windows doesn't do multiple desktops out of the box, has no equivalent to automator (folder actions are useful in particular), Windows constantly need to be manually refreshed because unlike the mac, they don't make use of value observation of their contents, etc.

What is funny is seeing PC / Linux user arguments that the mac offers nothing from people who have clearly never spent any time with it. I run Linux, OS X and Windows on a daily basis, and there's a reason I'm more than happy to pay what is required for apple hardware.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Don't bother. Some people don't understand that hardware also encompasses the bits that you actually interact with. Like usable input peripherals on portable machines for example.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, what does it do that windows can't??

Though non-standard, my two primary computers, a desktop and a laptop, run more stable and robust as Hackintoshes (i.e. non-Apple hardware) than the Windows 7 for which they were "engineered" for well over two years. I've been able to find comprable software for practically every business and/or programming task over a two year period. Adobe even was kind enough to offer a cross-grade from Win version to OSX version of Creative Suite which on OSX runs circles over the comparable version on Win7.

They've pretty seamlessly integrated with my companies Linux servers with just plain-old NIS, NFS, LPD (i.e. not having to add the overhead of SMB protocol for simple user, file & printer management/sharing, respectively.

Games may perhaps be a different story, however, the latest Wing-Commander third party ran great including being able to use my Logitech Flight Stick that's over 10 years old and functions great under OSX.

If I didn't have to support windows, I wouldn't be running it for anything other than compatibility with a few windows-only files for which no third-party conversion exists. BTW, the windows I do run is in VM's under VMware Fusion.

I really hope that Apple sees the value in making their wonderful FreeBSD based OS "officially" available for non-Apple hardware

Just sayin......

- Former Disgruntled Windows User & Former Linux-Desktop Flag Waver

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Pi Is A Rational]

Pussies, all you will ever need is this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RTdAkUb1S0
http://www.usimperio.com/recycled/product_images/ibm/ibm_trackpoint.jpg

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Immerman]

So the median house costs 4 years of median income - perhaps a little excessive I agree, but hardly enough to put it out of reach - assuming you dedicate 50% of your income to it you could buy such a house in 8 years (plus a couple more to pay off the interest accrued). Or, assuming you lose ~50% of your income to insurance, retirement, etc. you could dedicate 50% of take-home, 25% total or $1k/month to pay it off in 16 years (call it 20+ including interest). That would still leave your $50k median household with ~$1k/month for food, utilities, maintenance, incidentals, savings, etc, and after that you only pay taxes and maintenance and could pass it on to your kids/grandkids when the time comes. Of course what actually seems to happen these days is that long before your house is paid off you sell it and buy a larger more expensive one so that you can go to the grave still making payments on a McMansion stuffed to the gills with junk you never use.

Not an ideal situation I agree, a median of price closer to $100k would make home ownership far more appealing - and historically that's roughly what it was until the housing bubble at the turn of the century (one reason I believe the bubble is still in effect). The biggest problem with returning to a more sustainable market is that over the last few decades most of the "desirable" neighborhoods have been slowly "upgraded" to larger, more expensive houses, and "downgrading" them doesn't make financial sense, so we're forced to wait through a long slow decline during which time purchasing a house is far less appealing as it's value is only likely to decline over time, where as historically it could be expected to hold reasonably steady.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

It's a "thin app" not a "big heavy app". It doesn't require anything speciel to run, and could easily run in a browser (in fact, now it does).

The ipad / modern tablet is not strictly a thin client device - it has a lot more processing power than desktops from a few years ago in a device much much smaller.

Yes, that's my point right there. Some people have this weird notion of a "thin client" from the 90s: something with no processing power. Reality has moved on. The average high-end phone thse days is just a real-keyboard-and-monitor away from being all the compute most people need, lacking only a handy docking station - and people are starting to sell docking stations.

There's very little that people do outside of work these days that couldn't be done on a small device in an "app" environment, and as technology marches on, in a web browser.

And the "heavy lifing" apps vendors are all working on products that will be a thin client connecting to serious compute in the cloud (or corporate datacenter). I don't know if that will catch on, but the likes of AutoCAD would love to be able to give away a client and rent out the boxes that do the real work, instead of their current priacy-fraught model.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[PickyH3D]

Oh, that's why the latest OS service pack (Mountain Lion) has caused a two hour drop in my battery life.

Battery life is why I actually liked my Mac because the OS is far behind both Windows and Linux, except for a few nice-to-haves. Guess my next laptop will be my favorite PC alternative: Asus.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

There likely are this year, in terms of viruses per user. The first huge Apple botnet was found. Malware has made it into the app store. Apple's only advantage there is in being a smaller target; the OS itself isn't providing any security advantage.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jedidiah]

> Why OS X isn't more popular then?

You're simply swimming in the Kool-Aid and don't realize it.

That's why.

People can be given a Mac for free and not take to it. The "superiority" of MacOS is mostly in your head. "Beauty" is highly subjective.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jedidiah]

> Not everyone can afford a Mercedes GLK.

I've actually owned a Mercedes (unlike you) and Macs are no Mercedes.

Equating a Mac with a Mercedes isn't elitist. It's clueless. It's funny to those of us that actually can afford the finer things and recognize quality.

Your overpriced PC doesn't make you any better than the rest of the plebes.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[VFA]

The virus numbers need to be adjusted for market share. According to the article, Windows has abot 90% of the market share, OSX 10%, so the virus numbers need to be adjusted accordingly. If and when OSX reaches 90% market share I am willing to bet it'll be lauged by as much virus activity as today's Windows. It's just natural, not defending one side or another. Virus author tries to reach as many machines as possible, hence the imbalance of Windows viruses vs. Mac. Trust me, Macs are virus prone.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jedidiah]

MacOS suffers from a group think mentality even worse than Windows. If you decide to do something a little creative, you will get shouted down by the mob. You might even be accused of a pirate.

Someone has probably done that in this thread already.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

"First you don't need a USB DVD (optical drive) to install anything anymore ever. That's just dumb. Every software is available for download. Office to Adobe to drivers to games."

When I went to college, my school "gave" out software packs containing the software I needed to complete the coursework. They were DVDs. There was no download option.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jedidiah]

I haven't had the inclination to even try something like that since the 90s. Not since cheap router appliances became cheap and plentiful.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jedidiah]

No. We understand all right. We actually know how technology works. We aren't just "proudly ignorant" conspicous consumers.

Usable input peripherals? On a Mac? You must be joking? All of their keyboards are crap to use. It doesn't matter how fancy they are.

They are no less in need of replacement inputs than any other laptop.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[westyvw]

Funny thiing is that I may spend most of my time in an application (or two or three) but when the OS is lacking a decent file manager, a decent clipboard, a robust yet simple recovery system, and nags me every day for updates that require reboot, I DO care about the OS. Productivity goes way down no matter how good the application is if the environment I am working in is poor.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[westyvw]

And just to mention, I care for neither Windows or Mac.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing about the mac and mercedes is the attention to minute detail. For instance the cup holders. I recall one, I think it was in the 2000 E class, is overly and beautifully designed. I kind of think it is like all the work that went into the mac to make sure that boot up and wake up times are minimized. Not something everyone was doing 20 years ago, but engineering of both are common.

Of course on the SLK the struts for the trunk is really a pain. Like the screen hinges on the original Macbook air.

Then there are the old, like 30 years, E-Class. Joy to drive, joy to ride. It has the seating that is not nearly matched by the current E class, and barely matched by the GLK. Engines are industrial, like my Ti Powerbook. Maybe the air conditioner does not work, or it needs a touch up, but the joy to use is unmatched.

I must say that the new mercs are nice. Even the cars built during the Chrysler experiment are really nice. But here is the rub. When I use an HP machine is usable and get the job done. When I am forced to drive a Altima, it is usable and get the job done. But when on a Macbook AIr, or running around in an E-Class, one can be concerned that one paid 4K for a computer, or 50K for a car, or can just be grateful that one has the ability to afford such things and enjoy the benefits.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[micheas]

Although the trackpad is probably interacted with an awful lot and for most people it is worth a couple hundred or more to have a user input system they like.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[amiga3D]

It was a dumb comment but no less than your ignorant one of "typically lesser performance." I use linux primarily but I keep a mac mini for video work. I've found nothing better for video and photo editing than the overpirced apple equipment with it's quirky OS. I've used linux for this task but the software available there is lacking in many areas and as for windows I refuse to torture myself. Keeping it operating is a full time job. I have one windows laptop with XP for the controller software for my race car. Since I use it for absolutely nothing else and never attach it to the network it works fine for that. The machines at work require a full blown IT department just to keep about 80 to 90 percent of them running. To be fair we have some idiots using them but I've never seen such garbage for the money spent on licensing. Linux gives it's share of problems but hey, it's free! My Mac has never once given me any trouble whatsoever. It's flawless just like the macbook berfore it, the powerbook before that, and the Dual G4 tower I started video editing with. Yes, Macs are expensive. Perhaps even overpriced. It's nice to have something that never, ever lets you down though.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[amiga3D]

You've obviously never shopped at wally world. I haven't seen a laptop there worth over a thousand dollars. You go and and wear those cheap ass boots they sell there, my Redwings are worth every single cent of the $200 I spent on them. My feet don't lie. I don't think Walmart even sells any pro type computers, maybe on line. You like e-machines though, you buy you one and be happy.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[amiga3D]

No, you're doing it wrong. It's the e-machines they're talking about. You're comparing machines at the same price point. You're supposed to pick a windows laptop for $1000 less than the Mac and tell how much better the windows machine is. HP is overpriced for snotty people too!

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of us (presumably most of us) use computers to make our living, and the additional cost of a good professional tool is irrelevant (and a tax writeoff). Have fun with your walmart computer.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

But their vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong.

The market has spoken. Clearly, Microsoft is giving users what they want.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

"Whats funny is that 99% of people spend 99% of their time in an application ..."

Actually, what's funny is that 99% of all viruses spend their time in Windows, but you still have the audacity to say that it is six of one and one half of the other. That takes a special combination of balls and stupidity, my friend.

Yes, this has been true in the past, but perhaps you've noticed plenty of reports on virus issues on macs? Its because there simply weren't enough of them for virus writers to bother with.

As a former operating system programmer, listening to someone say they think any machine is virus proof or worth spending extra for because it can't get a virus demonstrates something much lower down on the ladder than balls and stupidity.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

aww... looks like someone got rejected (or couldn't even get a phone screen) at Microsoft..

if you're too dumb to even know how to maintain a Windows machine properly, which seriously boils down to "don't click yes on everything you find on the internet", then you should probably stick to your iPad.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

"Not everyone has the money to buy them. Sad, for them."

That's the kind of dumb, elitist comment that shows what a tool you are. Perhaps people don't see the point in paying extortionist fees for an OS and hardware that doesn't do anything that their current OS does and is typically of lesser performance.

Not everyone has the money to buy a Porsche either, how is that elitist?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Yes and you can put a high end motor in a compact car (rice rocket) - doesn't make it a high end car. The fit and finish, the wholistic integration of the components - that is what makes a product high quality, not the components themselves.

Never taken one apart then? They're made by one of the same far east manufacturers as dells, lenovo's and so forth, largely from the exact same parts.

A few years ago I took an old acer core 2 duo laptop and slapped osx on it without any shenanigans. Exactly the same hardware as a macboo pro from its era, although the screen panel on the acer was better than the one you'd have gotten in the macbook, and the keyboard and touchpad felt quite a bit better to me than most macbooks.

A few months ago I built a desktop with the exact same parts except the case, screen, keyboard and mouse as the highest end non xeon mac pro you can buy. Cost me $600 and again OS X slid right in because the hardware is the exact same as the apple product. The same. The same pieces with the same model numbers and from the same companies.

But you guys go on and continue contorting yourselves to find the reason why you spent twice as much. There isnt one.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Funny thiing is that I may spend most of my time in an application (or two or three) but when the OS is lacking a decent file manager, a decent clipboard, a robust yet simple recovery system, and nags me every day for updates that require reboot, I DO care about the OS. Productivity goes way down no matter how good the application is if the environment I am working in is poor.

Hmm, windows has an excellent file manager and 57,000,000 free ones if you don't like that one. It also has a decent clipboard and 100,000,000,000 free ones if you don't like that one. Recovery for many things seems plenty fine to me, can you be more specific? Oh, and we only get updates once a week, they install in the middle of the night, and reboots are maybe once a month and also happen after the installs complete while you're asleep.

I also think that 1% of people spend more than 15 minutes a day with a file manager and/or the clipboard.

Aren't we really grasping at the thinnest straws at this point?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Although the trackpad is probably interacted with an awful lot and for most people it is worth a couple hundred or more to have a user input system they like.

And anyone with a windows machine can select from thousands of keyboards, mice, trackpads and trackballs that suit them. Pretty much all for under $100. Where did the other $400 go?

Oh, thats right. They went to setting record level profits built on the backs of 3rd world slave labor, and nothing was passed along to charity or any other beneficial entity.

Apple got rich because a lot of deep pocketed people wanted to be as cool as Steve Jobs. I suppose the fact that Steve had a live in prostitute for many years because he had trouble relating to women is the key swing factor apple buyers can relate to.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

yea your paying 1000$ extra for a slower machine than the walmart box

not all of us are looking for the prettiest computer, the nicest tennis shoes and the blingiest bling

Honestly, your attitude makes it too easy to say: fuck you, I'm driving a Porsche.

You're kind of pushing people into a corner where they have to tell you, yes, I am looking a great computer, great shoes, and the blingiest bling, and I have no problem spending my bigger than yours paycheck on it and telling you since you wanted to be a dick about it.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Osgeld]

yea I just looked at walmarts website, for 600 bucks you get a 17 inch toshiba laptop with a 2.5ghz i5 750 gig hard diskand 6 gigs of ram, meanwhile you would pay 1,200 for a 2.5 ghz i5 with 4 gigs of ram, 500 gig hard drive, 13 inch screen and a OS that doesnt run half of what people want

enjoy your logo

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Shempster]

The only "innovation" going on in "the cloud" is the commoditization of routing/switching functions via SDNs (what Google & Nicira are doing). The cloud+tablet hype is an obvious swing back to a centralized model for corporate IT - only this time data centers are primarily accessed via public Internet pipes vs. private broadband. Downsides include loss of robust internally controlled data security and privacy, and increasing dependance upon ISPs and 3rd-party massive arrays of VMs. Whatever threats each of those high-profile entities are exposed to, ie. govts.and other criminal organizations infiltrating & snooping, so to will you and your company be equally visible and vulnerable. It would be very unfortunate if a robust desktop PC marketplace succumbs to cloud-dependent iPad-like dumb terminals. Don't let desktop PCs disappear.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[yoasif]

Second, if she has a windows system, a Mac support person will copy that over to a bootcamp partition as part of the sale.

This assumes that she has a retail copy of Windows -- my assumption for anyone who didn't realize that Windows doesn't just come with the computer is using a copy of Windows bundled for OEM installation. Those licenses aren't transferable.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Mafia$oft]

Oh yeah? Then start buying one of those very well-known Logitech webcams (or almost any other of all the UVC-based cams out there), or try to get proper r/w NTFS support working (which package to choose for Snow Leopard? Tiger? Mountain Lion? And should you manually install macfuse? osxfuse? fuse4x? and which custom-tailored community-provided helper shell scripts to use to get GUI mounts working properly?), or try getting UDF support that is on par with other choices (10.4 sucked majorly in that regard, and I'm sure 10.6 has deficiencies there as well), or even buying a scanner (that one is arguably sort of ok), or try getting decent integrated SMART support (yes indeed, my MacBook HDD died...), or try getting write/*read* access to your HDD power management settings. And last time I heard some Linux graphics wiz described OS X as completely sub-par on the graphics system layer front (maybe does not apply to 10.8, though). And the things that Torvalds said about HFS+ were not all too pretty either...
Or just try figuring out where exactly in the GIMP Applications installation tree its Python plugins are supposed to be placed (almost all docs here are Linux-focused).

And don't tell me a twice-broken palm rest and balloon-bulged battery (after two years!) is "quality hardware".

That company has been obsessed with their oh-shiny childs play hardware for too long methinks, with development of their professional products woefully abandoned.
And don't get me started on their developer policy. All things to-be-paid-for, otherwise you'll end up with very outdated versions. Do they want people to do software development to have their under-represented infrastructure improved, or not???

I admit it: I'm an Apple customer. Once.

(not that Mafia$oft is much - if at all - better, admittedly)

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Light years ahead?? How? OS X is one of the least customizable OS's out there. Its apple's way or the highway. Seriously, what does it do that windows can't??

Apple's quality hardware??

You mean the exact same hardware that gets used to make Windows PCs? Apple gave up its exotic hardware long ago. Now its just a basic intel board you can buy for half the cost of what apple is going to sell it to you for.

Next you'll be telling me that os x is magical. God you apple fans live in a fantasy world.

Come back when everyone switches their photocopiers off the Apple setting bud. Apple gets aped at every turn, and everyone here knows it, while nobody wants to admit they were on to anything.

Tell me the all-in-one PCs we all see on store shelves are not directly inspired by the iMac. Why did it take so long for other systems to catch up in sleep/hibernate stability if it's all basic intel boards. When did integrated $1000 27" IPS displays, or integrated batteries become mundane? Or a mouse that's a touch pad, or pushing touch pads as mouse replacements?

No magic, but you have to be blind not to see that Apple is the alpha dog right now. The thing is, people making your stuff know damn well what is going on, while you drink the Apple hater's kool-aid.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Zune. Kin. Windows Phone. Spot. Plays for Sure. Surface. WebTV. Ultimate TV. MSN TV?

They profit out of their cash cows: Windows and Office. But that's 20+ year old vision. About the only new market they've been successful in has been XBox.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

First of all that is a ridiculous statement. Even you acknowledge that the first Apple botnet was found. How many Windows based ones do you suppose there are? Second, you don't know the difference between a virus and a trojan. A trojan can affect any OS where the user has an ability to install software. It has nothing to do with OS design. I'm talking about viruses.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

No. The virus numbers don't map. You are thinking of trojans, which are a completely different form of malware.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Yes, this has been true in the past, but perhaps you've noticed plenty of reports on virus issues on macs?"

No. I acn't say that I have. I also Googled for them and the only places I find saying it is a threat are sites trying to sell me antivirus software who don't actually deliver on their promise of listing any. This PC Mag article makes wild claims and then fails to identify a single virus, once again confusing them with Trojans. A search of CERT for OS X Virus turns up nothing but some Windows pages that have OS and version n.n.X in them.

"As a former operating system programmer, listening to someone say they think any machine is virus proof or worth spending extra for because it can't get a virus demonstrates something much lower down on the ladder than balls and stupidity."

As a long time and current systems programmer I would never claim any OS is virus proof. I never did make such a claim. The fact remains that Linux and OS X are far less susceptible to viruses than Windows.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Score Whore]

As to battery capacity, sure it lasts longer but that's due to the larger battery (check the specs).

Um, who cares why. If the fact is that the battery lasts longer then that's the fact. Does anyone actually do the research to find the device that has the most efficient battery usage rather than the device that will let them use it the longest per charge?

The old G5 Mac Pro workstations are still the better choice if you need number crunching because they're a true 64bit CPU unlike the AMD/Intel offering which is only 48bit capable. The 64bit support is only for (memory) address space.

Huh? You should do some research before you write your posts. Because this is wrong. Not in my opinion wrong, but in fact wrong.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Patch86]

If you use half a dozen programmes at once, the way the OS handles the following things will matter to you- finding the application, launching the application, switching between the applications, displaying content from multiple applications on screen at once.

Ironically, it is precisely that cluster of functions that Win8 has decided to screw with. Up until now, MS (excluding Bob) has kept that relatively sacred.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[teg]

"First you don't need a USB DVD (optical drive) to install anything anymore ever. That's just dumb. Every software is available for download. Office to Adobe to drivers to games."

When I went to college, my school "gave" out software packs containing the software I needed to complete the coursework. They were DVDs. There was no download option.

When I went to university, I got the software on floppy disks. Doesn't mean I can't live without it today.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Should I make a list of Apple's many, many, failures? What would that prove?

What is your point, exactly?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

At the command prompt:
netsh wlan set hostednetwork mode=allow ssid=LOLSlashdot key=password
netsh wlan start hostednetwork
then Adapter Properties -> Sharing -> check a box.
Jesus Christ, that sure was terrible. Surely no mere Slashdot user could figure that out with a single googleing!

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[fermion]

Point proven. If a house were a priority, one could afford it. It a computer were a priority, one could buy a mac. For most, who want to write memos, play video games, surf the web, a computer is not a priority, so paying for a mac is may not be good use of money.

As far as the specific house example is concerned, the numbers don't quite work as cleanly as you might think. After all expenses are factored, a $200,000 would be $1000 a month over thirty years with at least a 25% down payment. It is true that someone who did not have to rent or bills could save up for a house in about 5 years. This was summarized by the richest women in the world. Stop buying drugs and you won't be poor.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[icebraining]

True, but the patent abuse is more than enough to justify not buying anything from Apple. Or Microsoft, for that matter.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

"But their [Microsoft's] vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong."

Couldn't be clearer.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Sir_Sri]

And enterprise tools. Don't forget all of their moves into the server market and more serious corporate IT stuff.

Besides that, their '20+' year old vision is the foundation for, and the base of most of the successes they have had. There's nothing wrong with that particularly. Cars should drive on the road, so every increment in the last 100 years has been on cars driving on the road. Flying cars have never really materialized as economically feasible. Microsoft have made quite a lot of progress in the desktop paradigm, and there is a legitimate place for small steps towards some cloud connected future rather than leaping in headlong.

As I said, they might not make anything better. But there's a lot of room in the marketplace for a much better cellphone-desktop-homeserver-laptop-productivity+entertainment product suite and they could certainly leverage their existing windows user base to make some really interesting vision materialize. A microsoft built 'Xbox 4' that acts as your cable and other TV enterainment hub, that can, in turn, connect to or act as a home server from which all of your clients (family computers and mobile devices) connect to.

I think the enterprise stuff is really the big factor. If you go into any serious nerds house (especially linux nerds) we've got all sorts of stuff controlled from our PC's, one my buddies controlled his lights from a command line 14 years ago, we've got web servers, file servers, e-mail servers, synchronization and backup tools, user management etc. I don't even use a TV to watch TV, I can do that all with a video capture card and can record TV doing it - and so can everyone else on /. That connected vision is the future, most users aren't capable of it yet, but that's been microsofts deal in the enterprise - you can train someone in a year long course to do a half decent job of managing their corporate stuff for a small business. That's *still* too complicated for a home user, but the easier it gets, the more your 'desktop' is really just your main home server, and everything else is a client to it. Microsofts 'vision' for the future could be stuff we can all do already, (give or take some devices to help) it's just too hard for now - but that's a huge space they can get into.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cruciform]

"half of what people want"

A web browser? To *most* people a computer is just another appliance, like a toaster. It might have a few more features, but in the end they want it for a limited set of tasks. Browsing the web, editing photos, collecting/serving media, and a handful of other tools.

Windows, Linux, OSX all have these tools. It's merely a matter of preference now.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

So, when I say that Apple's UI is horrible from a usability perspective and the fandroids say ' the market says otherwise' they're wrong?

Also, as I pointed out earlier, I can make a huge list of Apples failures and make the same claim "Apple's vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong".

It's a stupid argument no matter who makes it. Get a clue.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

So, when I say that Apple's UI is horrible from a usability perspective and the fandroids say ' the market says otherwise' they're wrong?

That list was Microsoft's failures. Apple's UIs haven't been failures.

Whatever it is you believe is overriding your logic.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[LDAPMAN]

I own both and the experience is definitely comparable. Attention to detail and willingness to make it more expensive when needed to achieve the design goals make both superior.

I really don't think you can honestly look at a MacBook Pro and find that there is no difference between it and a run-of-the-mill windows laptop. That difference may not matter to you but it is certainly there.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Wow, you're not terribly competent are you?

Yes, Apple's UI is a usability nightmare. Go do a google search.

Of course, that's completely irrelevant to the main point. That is, your argument isn't meaningful as I can make the same claim about any company, including Apple, by presenting a massive list of their failures over the years.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[williamhb]

Native software will always have significant advantages over web apps. That being the case there's no reason to assume we'll ever do everything via the browser.

Universal thin clients is as old and unfullfilled a prediction as "The year of Linux on the desktop". And you think Microsoft's vision of the future adds any weight? Ha ha.

The browser itself is a barrier to webapps. In an in-browser app, as soon as you need to include third party content (which might be as simple as you're writing a twitter client and want to show the content of a tweeted URL), you have to deal with pages the browser refuses to load because of X-Frame-Options, REST API calls to, say, Dropbox, where that the browser refuses to return the data for the POST request to fetch the deltas because Dropbox hasn't set the CORS headers, etc. Security measures that are their to protect your app from others too, but it won't take you long to realise that if you instead have a native app with a WebKit pane for the third party content, a lot of the headaches the browser introduces go away.

(And of course as browsers auto-update a dozen or more times per year, and there are a few to support, a webapp is aiming at several uncontrolled moving targets)

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Osgeld]

installing that gps software, running office ... its not what you want, or what you think other people want, its what THEY want, and according to the numbers OSX dosent have what they want, and its more expensive

drum on apple boy drum on

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jo_ham]

yea your paying 1000$ extra for a slower machine than the walmart box

not all of us are looking for the prettiest computer, the nicest tennis shoes and the blingiest bling

It seems you're not looking for correct grammar either it seems.

Maybe if you paid a bit more for your computer it would have a working grammar checker.

DISCLAIMER: This post is a joke.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jo_ham]

The wally world special has a metal case too?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[gmhowell]

And much like my Mac has lasted much longer than Windows PCs, my Redwings seems to never die compared to Timberlands and various other brands. Are they still made exclusively in the US? I heard at least some of their line was now being made in other countries.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[jo_ham]

Hardware-wise, Macs are 2 generations behind. Apple's not even trying in the desktop market.

With the Mac Pro? Definitely. It's the red-headed stepchild of the Mac lineup right now. No one should buy one.

For the rest of the lineup, "2 generations" simply isn't accurate. The laptops are all on Ivy Bridge with current generation GPUs where applicable, the iMac and Mac Mini are on Sandy Bridge (but due to be updated some time this month).

Given that the vast majority (something like 65%+) of their sales are laptops, hardware-wise Apple are pretty current.

The Mac Pro is something of an aberration right now that is on no danger of becoming decent for some time (at least 2013).

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Osgeld]

thanks for the english lesson I am sure I care

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

lol yea ok, have fun being one of those old fucks with a trashy old ass car, long grey hair, huge bald spot and the goodwill shirt with a stain on it

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

Nah, trackpoint sucks dude. Gestures are pretty useless on it, and it is nowhere near as fast or accurate.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[FyRE666]

Weird, all the professional video editors I know now use PCs - mostly for performance reasons. These are not people who care about the price either - they can just specify much higher spec machines than Apple have available - Mac "Pro" - what a joke! Not sure why you think you need to "maintain" a PC any more than a Mac really. I own/use both, and they're about equal. My PC never crashes, my Mac has crashed. My iPhone and iPad have also locked up (and I'm willing to bet the vast majority of iOS users have had apps quit on them more than once - even though it's a fairly soft experience, that app suddenly disappearing is a crash.

So sorry, but trying to claim a Mac is a better buy for video editing is as ridiculous as people who have been using them for Flash authoring over the years. You're kidding yourself.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Falconhell]

Windows since 1995 and no viruses. Bought a mac laptop and found it frankly too limited in software availability, and GUI very poor. What was your point again?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

That you usually have to connect your computer to the internet to get viruses these days. ;-)

Also:

• 1) You don't know you haven't had a virus
• 2) You definitely have had a virus if you have been running Windows since 1995
• 3) All those times you had to reinstall Windows because your computer slowed to a crawl, it may well have been because you had a virus
• 4) If you say you never had to reinstall Windows because your install went south and you've been using Windows since 1995, then you're a liar

Any questions?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[murdocj]

My PCs last pretty much indefinitely. Funny thing, my officemate's Mac has had all kinds of problems.

Guess anecdotal stories are what you make of them.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Vegemeister]

Interlaced video is a joke. It was kind of neat before we had codecs with inter-frame compression, but it's not 1992 any more.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Hamsterdan]

Complete BS. takes a couple of clicks to do it natively.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Battery life, weight, keyboard, display, and trackpad quality? Please?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Kyusaku Natsume]

Well, I think that grandparent was trollish, but, in a short of way, it is really sad that buying better built or better specs equipment from Apple or from other brands has become not a matter of choice, but a matter of affordability even in first world countries for most people. On the plus side, here in Mexico Apple gear is now very affordable because their prices are matched now with the US price, and they keep a lower price for the exchange rate from USD to MX peso than the one in the financial markets or the open market. Apple stuff up to 12 years ago was sold here at least 2 times more expensive in USD than the US price. Adding to that the high VAT, at 15% 12 years ago or 16% now, and you can understand why the mexicans that can afford it do their shopping in the US.

Now, back on topic, the initial investment in Apple hardware is higher than in other brands, but the equipment is built to last, and the things the user interact most like the screen, keyboards and mice/trackpad are better than the common offers from their competitors. The Magsafe connector alone in their laptops helps to make them last far longer than other brands. Personally, I liked more the old style connector than the one used up to the new Retina Macbook pro because it detached more easily from the laptop than the straight angled one, and a discharged battery is less of a disaster than breaking an expensive laptop because you tripped with the power cord. I hope that when Apple's patent runs out in the Magsafe connector all the PC makers copy it. The OS is cheaper than any commercial OS, you can get Mountain Lion for all your machines your house for USD$ 20, how is that expensive? It is less than 3 hours at minimum wage in the USA, and the development tools are free. Now almost all Apple's software is under similar license terms. For the price of the last 3 updates of OS X for all my machines I bought a single license of Windows 7 pro 64 bit. On the performance side, unless you are running the latest games at the highest settings, BOINC, encoding full HD video with a low end video card or being part of a botnet you will not tax enough under common usage any x86 machine built in the last 2 years.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

The sandy bridge onwards gear supports AVX instructions for 256 bit math operations.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

A think client is one that just does UI presentation for the back end where the processing happens (e.g., RDP, dumb terminal, web app, etc). I'm not sure what you are implying is the demarcation point between thin and thick.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

So you're suggesting that if I buy a PC laptop i need a seperate bag for the mouse and keyboard to carry with me. Kinda makes an 11-13" machine sort of pointless, no?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[smash]

I didn't spend anywhere near twice as much?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[janeil]

I wouldn't bet money on the native software advantage always being significant. Just compare what a browser tab can load and run now with five years ago, or say 15 years ago over dialup.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Ritchie70]

Most people want a Toyota, not a BMW.

Well, that's what they buy, anyhow. Because the Toyota meets the base requirements and it leaves them money for the mortgage.

Personally I don't are about metal case, etc. my laptop leaves the house about three times a year. I'll be careful.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Yes, Apple's UI is a usability nightmare. Go do a google search.

Why the fuck would I need to do a Google search? I know Apple's UIs are not a usability nightmares, as I use them. Google is for people like you that don't know, but want to find support for what they want to believe.

And in any case, the point of discussion was "failure" not usability. All those items I listed were Microsoft failures. They sold very poorly and were prematurely canned. The Kin after a matter of days. And they aren't individual products, they are various "visions" of the future, all of them wrong.

*IF* the topic was bad UIs, we could discount Microsoft's cash cows Windows and Office too. There would be nothing left.

The lack of competence is in your ability to argue logically and consistently.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. The apple trackpad is worth paying for. Even if you're going to run windows on it. Carrying a mouse and keyboard around with your portable computer because the built in gear is awful is fucking retarded.

The Apple trackpad is definitely the best I have used. However, the current generation of Apple laptop keyboards is not. I had a lowly iBook G4 about 5 years ago that had a MUCH better keyboard than my current Macbook Pro (but a much worse trackpad). I also have a current generation Thinkpad which has a very very good keyboard but a terrible trackpad.

If only someone would get both right at the same time.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

yea I just looked at walmarts website, for 600 bucks you get a 17 inch toshiba laptop with a 2.5ghz i5 750 gig hard diskand 6 gigs of ram, meanwhile you would pay 1,200 for a 2.5 ghz i5 with 4 gigs of ram, 500 gig hard drive, 13 inch screen and a OS that doesnt run half of what people want

enjoy your logo

The closest match I can find on the Walmart website is the Toshiba L775-S7355.

The Toshiba is 6.2 pounds vs. 4.2 pounds for the Macbook Pro you are comparing it against.
The Toshiba has a 48Wh battery vs 63.5Wh for the Macbook Pro.
The Toshiba has 10/100 ethernet vs 10/100/1000 for the Macbook Pro (this is especially galling since the Intel chipset in the Toshiba supports gigabit ethernet).
The Toshiba has no Bluetooth vs Bluetooth 4.0 for the Macbook Pro.
The Toshiba has 3 USB 2.0 ports vs 2 USB 3.0, 1 Firewire 800 and 1 Thunderbolt for the Macbook Pro.
The Toshiba has a standard headphone jack vs a standard plus digital out headphone jack on the Macbook Pro.
The Toshiba has a low-resolution webcam vs. a 720p webcam on the Macbook Pro.
The Toshiba has a standard keyboard with numeric pad (nice!) vs a backlit keyboard on the Macbook Pro.

You simply cannot ignore the differences. Perhaps they mean nothing to you. But they exist and they cost real money to implement, not least of which is fitting a 50% larger battery into a smaller enclosure without removing any of the other components.

Now, lets get a Thinkpad with the same specs as the Macbook Pro and have a real price comparison...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3466

iMovie has supported AVCHD import since at least 2009. Been using it just fine with a AVCHD-only 1080i 60p camera. It's actually really good at it. Sorry you didn't know about how to get your camera to work right two years ago.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

If you use half a dozen programmes at once, the way the OS handles the following things will matter to you- finding the application, launching the application, switching between the applications, displaying content from multiple applications on screen at once.

Ironically, it is precisely that cluster of functions that Win8 has decided to screw with. Up until now, MS (excluding Bob) has kept that relatively sacred.

I guess the good news is that all of this stuff works fine in win7, and if you dont like it you can get 50,000,000,000 free software snippets to do all of this however you wish? Linux, windows, os x....all about the same at this point, once installed, tweaked and running.

There is no magic faery dust. Its an operating system and it does exactly the same things in approximately the same ways with the same results as any other mature full featured OS.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

As a long time and current systems programmer I would never claim any OS is virus proof. I never did make such a claim. The fact remains that Linux and OS X are far less susceptible to viruses than Windows.

I'm sorry, but you're not a very experienced systems programmer if you think any massive, monolithic operating system written by 10,000+ people over decades long periods is less susceptible to viruses than any other. If anything, after years of being lanced by virus writers, I suspect Windows has fewer holes and flaws than OS X. Even apple has the PR machine in reverse, after riding that misconception for years.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/security-expert-windows-7-secure-mac-os-140118
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/operating-systems/apple-tones-down-claims-regarding-os-xs-unassailable-security-1087070

This has been an issue of opportunity and bang for the buck virus writing. Security companies find huge gaping holes in OSX all the time, and eventually Apple fills them. If there were no such holes, why the fixes? Yeah, thats right...people don't fix what wasn't broken.

In the meanwhile, I've gotten exactly zero viruses of any kind on any machine in my household. We use free virus protection, don't surf russian porn sites, and don't click on any dialogue boxes that say "Kan I install my foobar mach 7 browser helper now?". I do see some malware occasionally on some extended family machines, but they were installing random free software, and frankly you can see some of the same problems doing that with a mac...

But the brain has to have a justification for spending too much money on something, so when the air comes out of the virus thing, I'm sure someone will find some obscure and likely incorrect reason to buy these things.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

So you're suggesting that if I buy a PC laptop i need a seperate bag for the mouse and keyboard to carry with me. Kinda makes an 11-13" machine sort of pointless, no?

I'm suggesting you buy the pc laptop that has the mouse and keyboard you love already built in. There are 75,000 to choose from. A little more selection option than you get with apple.

Quite simply you could buy about the most expensive reasonable PC laptop with the most awesome keyboard and mouse, and it'd still be cheaper than a comparatively pedestrian apple laptop.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

I didn't spend anywhere near twice as much?

Well then, tell me what you bought and what you paid, and I'll show you an equivalent or better windows machine for half the price.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"I'm sorry, but you're not a very experienced systems programmer if you think any massive, monolithic operating system written by 10,000+ people over decades long periods is less susceptible to viruses than any other."

No. You are right. Every OS has exactly the same susceptibility to viruses. There is absolutely no point in having a security model. In the end none of it matters, because Cute Fuzzy Bunny tapped his heals together three times in his ruby slippers and made it so.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Applekid]

Nah, trackpoint sucks dude. Gestures are pretty useless on it, and it is nowhere near as fast or accurate.

Like anything else, practice makes perfect. I've seen some trackpoint slingers in some meeting presentations whose cursor precision makes my mousing look like I've got Parkinsons.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Again, as you seem incapable of reading, Apples UI is a different issue from a different example. Yes, it is a usability nightmare. From the zillions of functions crammed in to the home button attached to three different was to press it, the functions of which change with context! (If you don't know why this is bad design, you need to do some serious reading.) Look at the absolutely abysmal suite of gestures -- hell, just the five-finger swipe is all you need to see how poorly their UI adapted to changing user expectations. (A five-finger swipe is not just poor ergonomics, it's unintuitive and not discoverable. Compare the same functions on a properly designed UI like on the PlayBook) That's just for starters. Maybe you should pull your head out of Job's rotting ass and look at their UI objectively. If you're incapable of that, at least try out a properly designed UI for comparison.

The original point: I can list just as many failed products and initiatives for Apple as you do Microsoft -- does that mean that "their vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong." Of course not.

Your argument is pathetic. Get a clue.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

In your own definition you say "just does UI presentation" and "web app" in the same sentance. Web apps can do a lot of the work client side. The "just does UI presentation" idea isn't what modern thin clients (the ones acutally being sold these days) are about, which is "boot from firmware, no apps installed or user data stored". They have a lot of processing power, and can do a lot of client side work, but when you reset one it's back to the default state. Mostly what the user sees is RDP (or VMware View or whatever), but there's a lot under the covers.

The selling point of moder thin clients is "no tech support for the device": no software installs, no OS patching (not quite true, there are FW updates), none of the usual desktop hassles, and cheap enough that they're not worth repairing if they have a hardware problem. They're really taking off in call centers and other shops where you want minimal user state that follows the user to whatever desk he logs in from.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[lgw]

Who cares about "viruses" as you define them? The current threat is app payloads: malicious banner ads, and otherwise legitimate documents with hidden malware. "Trojan" usually implies the user knowingly installing software (just not what he thinks), which is not the case here. For example, the current problem in the with the JRE exploit: if you're running Java and have a Java plugin in your browser, whether you get can get infected from simply visiting a web page depends on application settings (your web browser plug in settings), not the OS. PDF exploits are similar: your choice of Acrobat vs Foxit may matters, but not your choice of OS.
 

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Again, as you seem incapable of reading

And now you're on to nonsensical insults. Clearly I can read and type, otherwise we wouldn't be having this correspondence.

Apples UI is a different issue from a different example. Yes, it is a usability nightmare. From the zillions of functions crammed in to the home button

Ah, finally it becomes clear you're talking about the iOS UI. And you're showing a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. All GUI OSs have elements that change with context. A real UI designer knows it's an area which CAN cause confusion, but is also a way to put in more functionality without cluttering the UI. It needs to be designed intelligently.
An idiot that doesn't know UI design, and repeats what he finds on Google, without understanding it.

iOS users are not confused by the operation on the Home Button. It's not a bad design.

The original point: I can list just as many failed products and initiatives for Apple as you do Microsoft -- does that mean that "their vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong." Of course not.

Who said it did? The first was your reply comment, the latter was my earlier one.

And though you repeat you can find as many failed Apple products as I can failed Microsoft products, you haven't done so. You've just kept on changing the topic.

Your argument is pathetic. Get a clue.

There's nothing wrong with the logic in MY arguments, sunshine. You entered the thread saying that the market shows Microsoft isn't wrong. And then each comment after that fails to follow the same point as the last. You argue like a young girl.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Who said it did?

You did. I quoted you directly.

This is a waste of time. I should have known, as you seem hell-bent on becoming the new Bonch.

i'd continue to argue about the iOS UI but it's clear that you're not competent enough to participate in that discussion.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Who cares about "viruses" as you define them?"

I don't define them. If you had a clue what you were talking about you would know that. I also don't refer to motorcycles as tricycles, because I'm really weird about insisting that words actually have meaning. Obviously, it isn't important to you if you know what you say.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

You did. I quoted you directly.

No I didn't. You're a fucking imbecile.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

You didn't? What about these posts then?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3090857&cid=41213407
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3090857&cid=41216499

Some people's children...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Neither of them contain what you said was a quote, imbecile.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

The Apple track pad is obviously well worth 600 dollars and spec downgrade

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Yes, they did.

The original point: I can list just as many failed products and initiatives for Apple as you do Microsoft -- does that mean that "their vision for the past decade or two has mostly been wrong.",/b> Of course not.

Who said it did? The first was your reply comment, the latter was my earlier one.

It just goes to show how incompetent the Apple zealot truly is...

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

Do you get some kind of perverse pleasure about of being an imbecile?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[narcc]

Hey, it's not my fault that you're wrong. No need to resort to name-calling.

You'll get over it. Give Steve's rotting corpse some extra "love" time tonight and I'm sure you'll feel better.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

The old G5 Mac Pro workstations are still the better choice if you need number crunching because they're a true 64bit CPU unlike the AMD/Intel offering which is only 48bit capable. The 64bit support is only for (memory) address space.

Huh? You should do some research before you write your posts. Because this is wrong. Not in my opinion wrong, but in fact wrong.

Actually, it's one of those things where technically he's right, but in practice he's full of shit.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Virtual_address_space_details

Current x86-64 CPUs are indeed "limited" to a 48-bit virtual address space, with a clear future path to a full 64-bit VAS. 64-bit PPC has a full 64-bit VAS by definition.

However, it doesn't matter. You don't actually need a 64-bit VAS today. Not even if you're doing number crunching. 48 is plenty. Number crunching performance is determined by CPU core count, performance per core, physical memory size, and memory performance. The best G5 tower ever made eats Mac Pro dust in all of those categories.

In the very early days of Intel Macintosh, when it was quad 2.5 GHz PM G5s versus quad 2.66 Xeon Mac Pros, there were a handful of applications where the superior design of AltiVec compared to SSE let the G5 still win some number crunching applications. It had nothing to do with 64 bit virtual addresses, and those days are long gone.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Anonymous Coward]

She was asking if a disk drive was required, and I said to install most software you'd have to buy a USB DVD drive.

You don't actually have to buy one if you have another computer with a DVD drive running at least OS X 10.4.11 or WinXP SP2:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5287

But she also owned Photoshop and whatever Adobe video processing software for Windows. I told her she'd either have to re-buy Windows or buy native Mac versions of her programs.

You steered your friend wrong. Adobe offers low cost platform swaps:

http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/order-product-platform-language-swap.html

I also said for that $1200 you can get a really well-equipped laptop (her current PC is a desktop)

She was looking at an Air, according to you. Apple's pricing in the "ultrabook" market segment (which they basically defined with the Air) is actually quite competitive. The "well-equipped" laptop you steered her towards would not be anywhere near as light and thin. If she values those things, she's going to be spending about the same money on a PC Ultrabook. Maybe a couple hundred bucks cheaper at most, unless she's willing to compromise a lot on quality, battery life, thickness, weight, or a combination of those things.

This is someone who doesn't understand technology that much. If someone like that thinks it's too expensive, then it probably is...

It doesn't help people who don't understand technology when they have friends giving them lazy advice based on preconceived notions.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

"I'm sorry, but you're not a very experienced systems programmer if you think any massive, monolithic operating system written by 10,000+ people over decades long periods is less susceptible to viruses than any other."

No. You are right. Every OS has exactly the same susceptibility to viruses. There is absolutely no point in having a security model. In the end none of it matters, because Cute Fuzzy Bunny tapped his heals together three times in his ruby slippers and made it so.

Not very bright and petulant is no way to go through life son. I worked on the team that developed vax/vms, and worked for Jim Allchin and David Cutler before they went to microsoft to create the current instances of windows. Take the advice of a more experienced person...

To say that any large code piece is more or less susceptible to viruses is in and of itself foolish. One would have to have the imagination, tools and forethought of every person that might choose to hack the product to prevent it from being hacked, and in the process of making an operating system bulletproof, it'd also become unusable due to the onerous security. Not to mention there are security holes in every driver, app and plug in, and since most computers have software from a dozen or more suppliers...to create any sort of bulletproof or even nearly so system would be ridiculously implausible. About all you can do is hit 90%-95% and hope the user is smart enough to not do too many stupid things.

I gave you several informative links, but as is usually the case with apple stuff, the buyers respond like its a religion or staunch political perspective. Facts aren't important, because we've got our minds made up. Yet the facts remain that at almost any given time in the last 5 years, OS X has had more unpatched security holes in it than windows, and usually they're considered higher severity

But most hackers don't bother, because they can nail 50 windows idiots by getting them to click on something while they might only have a shot at one mac user, simply because there aren't that many. It'd be like developing a hack for a 1920's steam engine. You could do it, probably easily...but whats the point?

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Not very bright and petulant is no way to go through life son. I worked on the team that developed vax/vms, and worked for Jim Allchin and David Cutler before they went to microsoft to create the current instances of windows. Take the advice of a more experienced person..."

That's pretty good advice. Could you point me to any?

"To say that any large code piece is more or less susceptible to viruses is in and of itself foolish."

That is a phenomenally absurd statement. Your claim suggests that there is no such thing as slint, for example. If I have two code bases - one which has code that passes slint in its entirety and one which is chock full of code that does not - then I would be a moron not to say that the latter is more susceptible to viruses. It's great that you were David Cutler's chauffeur, but it doesn't qualify you to have opinions which you have firmly established are unfounded in skill or knowledge of security principles.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[BasilBrush]

You underline the fact you're an imbecile. And a nasty one at that.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Cute Fuzzy Bunny]

Apparently you think that running a hunk of code through a checker means its virus proof, or moreso than another product.

I'm tempted to say something like "epic fail", but that'd be an insult to epic failures everywhere.

Re:OS X is THE superior OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

You are truly a moron.

Flamebait

[Missing.Matter]

Is it just me, or are more and more blatant flamebait stories reaching the front page recently? What actual relevant, meaningful news is contained in this story?

Seriously, why not go full on flame and top it off with a comment on Linux's desktop share, so we can include them in the flamefest that's sure to follow? Or I guess maybe I just did that for you... you're welcome Slashdot editors.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes... I have a 5-digit UID... and I've logged out of my account. Harder to track my comments, so I have less reason to visit (and I have been visiting less).

And I'm doing that specifically because /. has started posting damn near nothing except flamebait

I'm close to just blocking the site at the firewall, and forgetting it exists.

Re:Flamebait

[smash]

Because in recent years, its cool to bash OS X / Apple here. Never mind taco is a mac / apple fan these days (yes I know he left). But linux must be cast in a good light at all costs.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

I have your problem. I wish I could stop visiting /., but some kind of hardwired habit in me makes me keep visiting it.

I'm trying to use news.ycombinator.com, and reddit, for similar news now, but for some reason I keep returning to /. and being appalled by the content.

Does anyone know other /. replacements than the two I mentioned above?

Re:Flamebait

[somersault]

linux must be cast in a good light at all costs

If that were true, why isn't Linux even mentioned in the summary? :p

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

because the story is about market share and there's no way to cast linux market share in a good light

Re:Flamebait

[cpu6502]

>>>its cool to bash OS X / Apple here.

False. Every time I bash Apple (mainly because it costs 2x as much) my post gets modded down into invisibility. This forum is very protective of the Apple brand and punished anybody who says something negative about it.

As for the Article, "reality" is the same as "perception" for most people. We all know that XP is being replaced in offices/homes by Seven. That XP share is shrinking & Seven share rising is not news.

And we all know that Apple's Mac OS is less than 10% of the market. Also not news.

Re:Flamebait

[somersault]

There is if you consider the smartphone and tablet market.

Re:Flamebait

[budgenator]

Not just you, more flamebait and troll articles, the more pageviews for the advertisers. I thought it was getting blatant when UID's hit arround 900,000. Not necessarily a bad thing, the demo coming here has changed considerably over the years, slashdot has changed with them, now Windows on the other hand seems to change for change's sake. Recently our network at work, because the client workstations were all XP machines allows the clients to map drives to two different directories on the Win2000 server on the same physical drive. Two major pieces of software all working happily, then I bring in my Vista laptop and suddenly I discover the Vista machine will not allow two mappings to the same physical drive. Soon we will change the clients to Win7 Pro 32bit machines for workstations and Win2008r2 on the server and I'm dreading what new surprises may be in store.

Re:Flamebait

[couchslug]

"What actual relevant, meaningful news is contained in this story? "

None. The idea that new sales/installs somehow "compete" with existing installs is bullshit and anyone propagating it should be treated to a kerbie..

New PC sales reflect both "new vs new" competition and "fleet replacement" where it only makes sense to replace an OS such as XP with a succcessor because of the APPS.

Re:Flamebait

[gnasher719]

False. Every time I bash Apple (mainly because it costs 2x as much) my post gets modded down into invisibility. This forum is very protective of the Apple brand and punished anybody who says something negative about it.

You should go to one of the Apple vs. Samsung threads then. You will enjoy it.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Just you? Plenty bitch about this and have for years -- where have you been? /. makes money from clicks. Flamebait generates clicks easier than hard geek news. It's simple economics; trolls _own_ /. now and we're literally feeding them.

The excuse (reasonable enough) for this submission is computer geeks like to know where the OS stats stand, so we've just got an update. I agree the slant of delivery is ignorant. I also admit there's going to be water-cooler banter about it that's just as ignorant, rather than enlightened.

Arguably the real measure of /. is what we do with it here in the thread. The more thoughtful posts will educate the borderline intelligences. And it''ll give some of us a heads-up warning of how idiotic some will see these stats, and some warm-up to deal with it succinctly.

And it's not nearly as bad as the recent plague of flat-wrong rubbish that a decent editor could have stopped by doing 30 seconds worth of clicking and reading. That, and the heavy fall-off of solid geek submissions and post, is much more worrying.

[captcha: "conflict" ...]

Re:Flamebait

[MysteriousPreacher]

Nothing new. Slashdot has for a long time tempered interesting articles with red flag bullshit. I consider these articles to be a honey pot for people wanting to vent and the nutters who feel its useful to respond.

You're the anomaly here. You go find a useful story to comment on. I'll distract the idiots.

Hey guyz! The operating system you prefer is crap because it's menus are different, and I believe it's cost to be way different to the OS that has become my religion.

Re:Flamebait

[ElitistWhiner]

mod+2

Re:Flamebait

[tibit]

That It costs 2x as much would be immaterial if only you invested in their stock ;). I've got some AAPL soon after 9/11 and they are, pretty much, paying me to buy their stuff ever since. You're free to spend that money on Windows-running hardware of course. Once their stock won't perform well enough, I'll be back to good-ole PC hardware. So far, it's all freebies everytime I need something.

Re:Flamebait

[smash]

Neither of which run Linux in the traditional sense.

Re:Flamebait

[sudonim2]

Do what I do; be a community mod and help filter out the stupid. It takes a village to fight out the invading trolls.

Re:Flamebait

[EGSonikku]

Then you would have to include iPhone/iPod/iPad in the Mac category, as iOS is Mac OS X at the kernel level, as well as libraries.

And of they did that the numbers in the summary would be VERY different.

Re:Flamebait

[somersault]

If you wish, but I consider the smartphone and tablet market as separate from the desktop market. I was just saying that it's a possible way to cast Linux market share in a positive light, albeit in a slightly tangential way from the main story which focuses on the desktop market. There is massive potential in the tablet and smartphone market.

I reckon the tablets coming out with HD screens and keyboard docks (Lenovo Ideatab K2, Asus TF700) are going to kick a lot of ass and have the potential to take a bite out of the netbook/low end laptop segment. There aren't really any downsides to them unless you *must* run Windows, but there are plenty of upsides (battery life, can detach from keyboard, interface is more task oriented and user friendly than most desktop OSes, market with automatic management of application updates etc).

Re:Flamebait

[jedidiah]

I dunno. Apple and it's users seem entirely full of themselves. It's nice to put things into perspective and point out how Apple is occassionally a failure. It's not infallible. It has some rather spectacular failures to it's name and it yet may lose the current platform war. There's precedent for it.

Re:Flamebait

[noh8rz8]

yeah you're always tearing me down even though i post reasonable thoughts.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

How so? Linux is a kernel. Android is based on Linux.

Re:Flamebait

[watcher-rv4]

Couldn't stop laughing for almost 1 min after this post.

Re:Flamebait

[93 Escort Wagon]

bullshit. try saying something negative about android - even if it's based on facts, it'll be modded down.

For example (hey, watch this):

Uh... you do realize the Android fanboys can read the whole comment, including the first part... right?

No one's gonna touch this particular post.

Re:Flamebait

[SEE]

Is it just me, or are more and more blatant flamebait stories reaching the front page recently?

Yeah, it's really gotten bad the last 13 years.

Re:Flamebait

[aztracker1]

You can symlink (mklink) to anywhere you want... not sure how you had the same drive mapped to two network paths at the same time.

Re:Flamebait

[sensationull]

It depends on how far down you want to go, most hoe routers are based on Linux and many websites. In a sense everyone 'uses' Linux but in another almost no-one does. Windows does not really have that recognition problem, it's either there or it's not.

Re:Flamebait

[Belial6]

Actually, it would make sense to bring desktop Linux's market share up when discussing OSX since OSX's market share is FAR closer to that of desktop Linux than it is to Windows.

Re:Flamebait

[Belial6]

You could point out that Linux has a market share closer to OSX than OSX has to Windows.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

>>>its cool to bash OS X / Apple here.

False. Every time I bash Apple (mainly because it costs 2x as much) my post gets modded down into invisibility

Grandparent did not say *your* argument would make you look cool. There is more than one way to bash apple, and the fact that most people think yours is wrong dos not mean others are not seen as correct.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Flambait and worse: the goddamn original link has the chart:

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustomb=0&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=140&qpnp=25

You know what this is, I mean THIS, right now, me, here? I am about to go to sleep, I've purpled almost all my internet reading sources, I can't be bothered to watch anything, I've even exhausted 4chan as a source for entertainment, and I resort to slashdot - I come here to see 4 links per page, of links that have already been posted, refuted, reposted and made into tshirts on reddit.

Why did I come here. Then the only remotely decent looking link was flamebait garbage, poorly bloody formatted BLOGSPAM and nobody cares.

Goodnight slashdot, going to hosts file exclude you now.

Re:Flamebait

[hairyfeet]

You nailed it, I read the original and there was no "struggling" anywhere in the article, in fact the only bone of contention was they had 2 different sources that said 7 beat XP at different times (one last year, the other recently) so they simply gave both dates.

As for TFA, why in the hell would anyone care if OSX beat Vista, which just FYI I made a ton off of removing like it was a Bonzi Buddy infection, when I seriously doubt even Cook at Apple gives a rat's ass about OSX numbers in the big picture. Their ARM based devices are making them truly insane amounts of money and they control the entire pipe, from the chips to the design, whereas with OSX they are stuck at the mercy of Intel and have no control over their releases. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this next refresh is the last one for the pro line after what they've done with server and FCP, they could just keep the Air and the iMac and make a lot more money with less refreshes.

As for 7 I have a feeling you'll see it continue to climb after release because after running CP in the shop and letting everyone from teens to LOL play with the unit I've found most people can't fricking stand that Metro UI, might work great on a cell phone or tablet but its low res apps and badly done hybrid design with many of the low level system stuff and even MS Office 2K13 not being really touch friendly it just sucks on a desktop.

Sigh...I have a feeling its gonna be another year and a half of "Get that damned thing off my computer!" when it comes to Win 8 just like it was with Vista. At least it'll be easier this time, everything has 7 drivers while there was a while there where it was a real PITA finding XP drivers for some of those Vista laptops.

Seriously though devs, this place is full of opinionated greybeards, no need for the obvious flamebait headlines...okay? Hell you don't need to throw zingers at Apple fans anyway, they'll be happy to prattle on about how they are expensive but well worth it, like a girl talking about her Prada pumps. ;-)

Re:Flamebait

[Belial6]

That was the Apple fanboy's intention.

Re:Flamebait

[ModernGeek]

That is because you are beating an old argument that has been put to rest to death.

If we wanted to have the same arguments day after day, we'd discuss politics on some other site.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Do as the rest of us do, fight the secret war, DON'T buy their products and warn off people.

There's a saying where I live, a happy customer brings you three more, an unhappy one will take away ten.

Re:Flamebait

[cpu6502]

>>>I think it is extremely hypocritical for all the Android fanbois to call for a boycott of Apple because of the Apple/Samsung lawsuit, but at the same time, give a free pass to both Google and Samsung for their abuses

I boycott all of them.
If they hand me something for free (like windows or 5 gigabytes of googledrive) I'll use it but I haven't sent a single dime to any of these companies in ten years.

Re:Flamebait

[cpu6502]

>>>you are beating an old argument that has been put to rest to death.

No it hasn't. Apple Mac with i7, 8 gig of RAM, and 2 terabytes of drive space? Over $1300. Cost of my new compact PC with same specs. Half.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

ten bucks says your pc isn't even close to the same form factor as the mac was...try building a pc with the same form as an imac or mac mini...it will cost MORE!

Re:Flamebait

[shutdown -p now]

The first step to recovery is to admit to yourself that you really come to Slashdot for the flamefest in comments, and not for the stories themselves.

Re:Flamebait

[CubicleZombie]

Is it just me, or are more and more blatant flamebait stories reaching the front page recently? What actual relevant, meaningful news is contained in this story?

It's Bush's fault.

Re:Flamebait

[budgenator]

Cool thanks a lot that is taking a lot of my mind, everybody at work thinks because i'm a linux geek, I'm a windows Guru too.

Re:Flamebait

[smash]

So we're going to start including DD-WRT in the desktop linux market share as well?

Re:Flamebait

[rtb61]

Sorry, but it is pretty much you. This news article is pretty much total confirmation that people are not updating the OS at all any more. The OS that came with their hardware is basically the OS they are sticking and until the hardware is replaced that OS remains, apart from Linux dual boots, which is generally not measured.

From a M$ perspective it means pretty much zero income from OS upgrades. In fact the only OS people really talk about upgrading and complaining when they can't is Android, they've got some pretty solid marketing going on there.

M$ is going to have a really hard time with windows 8, pretty much no upgrade market, so exposure is going to be pretty much locked to paid for news as advertising. End user exposure is going to be really limited and it will take years for it to have an impact. Imagine 'Years' in the tech market, a market infamous for critical monthly and even weekly changes, now slowly down to yearly upgrade cycles and in the case of the OS now looking to become pretty much stagnant and purely hardware driven.

It is going to be hard or more likely impossible to generate as much desire for windows 8 as there was for ice cream sandwich, the majority of the market just doesn't care. Application makers are going to be really paying attention to this.

Re:Flamebait

[smash]

So it came with Windows 7 Ultimate right? Thunderbolt? 2560x 1536 screen resolution? Nah, didn't think so.

Re:Flamebait

[somersault]

Well actually, I've seen a few ATMs with BSODs or other Windows error messages on them :p

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

>>>its cool to bash OS X / Apple here.

False. Every time I bash Apple (mainly because it costs 2x as much) my post gets modded down into invisibility. This forum is very protective of the Apple brand and punished anybody who says something negative about it.

You get modded down because your information is about a decade out of date. Apple products are generally price competitive based on the feature set and build quality.

If that feature set and build quality does not interest you, that is a completely different issue and is apparently of no interest to the other readers of /. based on your moderation history.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, if you check the article's source, the comparison is only between desktop OS's. Going further and checking the numbers on OS share between desktop, mobile, and console, Windows has an outright 83% share (between all versions) of ALL OS's. Mac comes in second at 7%, beating out iOS in third at 6%. Android and Linux combined is 3% (Android 2% and Linux 1%).

Just to add some perspective to the numbers, Windows Phone has 0.06% of the OS market while the Nintendo Wii has less than 0.01% (and the only one of the three current gen on the list). So, the biggest flop in the smartphone business still has more units in the wild than the most successful video game console.

Re:Flamebait

[somersault]

I'm aware that there will be less browsing done on mobiles and tablets than on "normal" computers. I was just saying it's one way to show Linux marketshare in a positive light - by selectively looking at the smartphone and tablet market.

Also does that site look for fingerprints for individual devices, or does it just count all page hits? If it's not counting individual devices then it's a pretty poor way to gauge things.

Re:Flamebait

[tlhIngan]

by jedidiah (1196) Friend of a Friend on Monday September 03, @11:03AM (#41214839) Homepage

I dunno. Apple and it's users seem entirely full of themselves. It's nice to put things into perspective and point out how Apple is occassionally a failure. It's not infallible. It has some rather spectacular failures to it's name and it yet may lose the current platform war. There's precedent for it.

Depends on which platform war.

OS X? That was lost long ago if you go by marketshare. Not so much if you're going by profit - a Mac sells very little (optimists say Dell outsells Apple in PCs by 10:1 at least), but they certainly seem to make it up (Mac profits ar higher than Dell's). So Dell sells more, but Apple makes more money. Who's the winner? Dell for selling the most, or Apple for making the most?

Ditto iOS vs. Android - Apple sells far less than Android (going by entirety). Though, Apple probalby makes more off each iOS device than everyone else (the vast majority of Android sales are cheap crapphones running 2.3 if you're lucky, 2.2 or lower being more common - I still found it funny you can buy an Android phone with 2.1/2.2 on contract today). Or by developer ecosystems (Android devs should be making more profit because of larger market, right? I mean, with 60% marketshare vs. 30% for iOS, the market's twice as big and should be twice as much profit... especially with only a $25 fixed fee vs. $99 a year, no approvals and all that.).

It's also pretty much the reason why a TV made by Apple is unlikely - the margins aren't in it (why do you think they throw in "Smart TVs" or "3D TV"? They're looking for value-add into what otherwise is a sea of identical TVs).

Apple's MO is not to provide products for every price point (it nearly killed them the first time around), but to concentrate on markets where they can make some of the largest margins in the business and move the most product.

Re:Flamebait

[cpu6502]

>>>So it came with Windows 7 Ultimate right? Thunderbolt? 2560x 1536 screen resolution? Nah, didn't think so.

The $1300 Mac didn't come with that shit either. (Didn't even include a screen..... that costs extra.) Stop trying to pretend liike Apple computers are cheap. Because they ain't. Just like Lexuses and Acuras are not cheap.... if you want to throw-away your money on those overpriced items, fine, but I'd rather drive the cheaper $15-20,000 Toyota or Honda or $600 PC.

Re:Flamebait

[Curate]

Because: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

Not because you bash Apple, but because you are a retard. Your other post are also downvoted.

Re:Flamebait

[johnsnails]

Or maybe it wasn't flame bait since they didn't mention Linux. Maybe it was perspective?

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno. Apple and it's users seem entirely full of themselves.

So says "jedidiah", notoriously full-of-himself flame warrior. Do you really think nobody notices that your online history under the "JEDIDIAH" nickname consists of at least 20 years of dull, smug my-computer-is-better-than-your-computer flamebaiting? Grow up.

Re:Flamebait

[Anonymous Coward]

>>>So it came with Windows 7 Ultimate right? Thunderbolt? 2560x 1536 screen resolution? Nah, didn't think so.

The $1300 Mac didn't come with that shit either. (Didn't even include a screen..... that costs extra.)

There is no such thing as a $1300 screenless Mac with 2TB HDD / 8GB RAM and an i7.

There are exactly two types of screenless Mac, the Pro and the mini. The Pro is a dual socket Xeon workstation which starts at $2500. The mini is the only possibility for a $1300 machine, but it's a tiny small form factor computer which uses 9.5mm 2.5" drives. As a result, it literally cannot be configured with 2TB of internal storage. The largest storage option Apple offers is the server version of the mini with dual 750GB drives, or 1.5TB total (though most people running a server would probably be using the dual drive config to do RAID 1).

So, as usual, you were just making shit up. Why do you feel compelled to lie about Apple, cpu6502? Is it not enough to criticize them for things which are real?

Stop trying to pretend liike Apple computers are cheap. Because they ain't. Just like Lexuses and Acuras are not cheap.... if you want to throw-away your money on those overpriced items, fine, but I'd rather drive the cheaper $15-20,000 Toyota or Honda or $600 PC.

Cool Pat yourself on the back. While you're at it, stop pretending that people who like Apple computers pretend that they're actually cheap. We know they're not cheap, but we also know (because often we've looked quite a bit!) that anything truly equivalent to any given Mac in a generic Windows PC isn't cheap either. (Or it just plain doesn't exist. And sorry, merely matching processor / RAM / HD specs does not make an equivalent machine. Show me one single solitary PC vendor which makes a product like the Mac mini, for example. No, crappy Dells which take up over twice the volume of the mini don't count.)

Re:Flamebait

[Em Adespoton]

I dunno. Apple and it's users seem entirely full of themselves. It's nice to put things into perspective and point out how Apple is occassionally a failure. It's not infallible. It has some rather spectacular failures to it's name and it yet may lose the current platform war. There's precedent for it.

Hyperbole, mass generalization, flamebait and logical fallacies do not prove a point, even if there's precedent for it.

I'm an Apple user -- I'm also a Linux user, a BSD user, an SVR5 user and a Windows user. While I'm not full of myself, I often play someone who is on Slashdot.

I'm sure the same thing goes for Apple and its employees, as well as Microsoft and its employees and Redhat and its employees (definitely goes for SCO and some of its employees).

But saying that Apple is a spectacular failure because its OS has the same marketshare as the failed Vista is as logical as saying the Chateau Briand is a spectacular failure because they don't have as many restaurants as McDonald's (yes, there's the full of themselves bit coming through): Calling Apple a failure for failing to do something they never set out to do is just silly. Am I an abject failure because I haven't bungee jumped in as many countries as you have?

And what does precedent have to do with anything? Precedent for what? What platform war? iOS vs WinMob? Apple isn't a platform company, they're a hardware company who binds it all together with custom software. That makes them an appliance company (which is what they've been since they ditched the AppleIIGS, with a brief blip when Motorola and Power Computing were allowed to use their OS).

Re:Flamebait

[Meski]

If you cant say anything nice to say, don't say it, perhaps?

Re:Flamebait

[Gilmoure]

Yeah? Well, I like Ermglish Breakfast Tea. Earl Grey drinkers are stoopid sheeple that don't even know how to run a real kettle!

Re:Flamebait

[MysteriousPreacher]

Obvious English Breakfast Tea shill is obvious!

Re:Flamebait

[Gilmoure]

Once I reach 10,000 Pro- EBT posts, I get a free 20% off coupon!

Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Next year...

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux leads in market share in just about every other computing space from embedded to smart phones to servers to supercomputers so why not the desktop next year?

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

Because it doesn't work effectively in that environment for the majority of people, for a variety of reasons.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[oakgrove]

I'm pretty sure the "majority of people" haven't actually tried it to see.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of those reasons involve FUD and the "professional consults" that say it won't work.

It's about what gets talked about on tv and what they have at home. That's it.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Grave]

Because they have no reason to. Seriously. Linux offers so little of value over Windows 7 to the average user that would justify dealing with a significant UI change and loss of support. The average user has had a hard enough time moving from XP to 7 (and these are honestly almost identical except for a couple of eye candy tweaks). The differences going over to any of the current Linux distros would be too much.

The argument that Linux could ever take off on the desktop is based on the idea that it's equally easy to use for a complete novice. Unless you regularly deal with people who are genuinely novices, you really don't understand just how much changing things scares them. The support infrastructure for Linux on the desktop is just plain awful compared to that of Windows--OEMs do not support it except under specific circumstances, and the average neighborhood computer geek is far less likely to know how to fix an issue with Linux than with Windows.

Converting to MacOS X happens because of marketing hype and chic factor, but at least there is a decent support infrastructure in place from Apple, and the platform is consistent and stable enough that most issues that arise can be fixed.

Windows "just works" on almost any hardware. MacOS X "just works" on Apple systems. Linux does not, unless you are willing to do some digging.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they have no reason to. Seriously.

You're reading way too much into the GP's comment and trying to start some nerd pissing contest when there isn't one. It is a fact that the majority of people haven't tried Linux. Who gives a shit why. It's just a fact.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux offers so little of value over Windows 7 to the average user that would justify dealing with a significant UI change and loss of support.

How do you know what value a particular user might find in Linux if they've never even tried it? Do you pick lottery numbers too?

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

The average user has had a hard enough time moving from XP to 7 (and these are honestly almost identical except for a couple of eye candy tweaks). The differences going over to any of the current Linux distros would be too much.

Do you have any actual data to back this up or is it just your "feeling"? My "feeling" is that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

The argument that Linux could ever take off on the desktop is based on the idea that it's equally easy to use for a complete novice.

That's the argument if it's the one you are using. There are many more arguments used by any number of people who think Linux could take off. You are projecting.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows "just works" on almost any hardware. MacOS X "just works" on Apple systems. Linux does not, unless you are willing to do some digging.

Oh, I see you're a hypocrite. Linux works perfectly on hardware designed with it in mind and unlike OS X, there is more than one company that will sell it to you.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

TYotLD is just like the Cub's chances of winning a World Series. "Wait till' next year!"

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[disi]

I notice with Windows that options go more and more clicks away which makes me use PowerShell and commandline options for basic tasks like killing a task and restarting the print spooler when splwow64.exe craps again (I wrote a script for that, since it freezes Office and other 32bit apps 4-5 times a day). Even most Windows fanboys tell me its easier to use the commandline.
In the past people were told, if there is no GUI its not user friendly. Suddenly commandline is state of the art :) So it stays, Windows is neither user friendly nor technically advanced but has a brilliant PR department

Before someone makes me use crappy MikTeX or something like that, I rather stay on Linux and use the original free software. Where XeTeX is actual developed by Apple and state of the art.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Grave]

Sure. See the fact that XP has only just now been surpassed by 7. Or try interacting with the average person who uses computers because they have to, not because they want to. If you believe I'm wrong, you're out of your mind.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Grave]

Name something Linux does that Windows doesn't. Or something that Linux does better than Windows.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Grave]

Obviously, a lot of people care about why - otherwise nobody would be posting comments here regarding Linux when the "story" wasn't even about Linux.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, a lot of people care about why - otherwise nobody would be posting comments here regarding Linux when the "story" wasn't even about Linux.

Logic fail ^^^
MacTard confirmed.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

See the fact that XP has only just now been surpassed by 7.

Have you had any coffee yet? XP is still strong because most people upgrade Windows when they buy new machines. Obviously a lot of people have been content with what they already have which makes sense considering how performant even slightly older hardware is vs. software requirements.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Zero__Kelvin]

Bullshit. The only reason that Linux isn't prevalent on the desktop is due to a FUD based misinformation campaign.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

Please give some in depth information about how Linux does not "just run" on systems like http://system76.com/

Thanks.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it being a hypocrite?

Um, because you're dinging Linux for not working on hardware not designed for it while there is hardware generally available that it does work very well on while in the same breath you are praising OSX for working well on the hardware it comes on. You're a hypocrite dude and you have an agenda. I'm sorry if the Linux penguin stole your girlfriend and kicked your dog but your arguments only reflect sour grapes not an accurate reflection of reality.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

So i want to connect to an 802.1x network with my wifi card. Or hell, even WPA2? Linux works for a reasonably sized subset of "works". But it is by no means easy to use or well supported out of the box if you venture outside of some rather restrictive usage scenarios.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

WPA2 wifi security. Sound. No i'm not talking about getting some sounds out of your DE, i'm talking about not having to faff about with different sound daemons or exclusive locks over the sound hardware to run any app that uses the sound hardware.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

A windows box looked after by someone with half the clue required to maintain a linux box from upgrade to upgrade will not get viruses or trojans either. Of my fleet of 550 desktops in the past year we've had 2 cases of malware. And i haven't had to fix any hardware or software broken by a service pack, security update, etc.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

So i want to connect to an 802.1x network with my wifi card. Or hell, even WPA2? Linux works for a reasonably sized subset of "works". But it is by no means easy to use or well supported out of the box if you venture outside of some rather restrictive usage scenarios.

An amount of usage scenarios that still exceeds the same number for Macs. If you're going to restrict your arguments to OSX installs that are running on hardware designed for it then to avoid being hypocritical you restrict your argument to Linux hardware. The main difference with the Linux stuff is there's a lot more of it from many more vendors.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Next year...

I am posting this as AC because I work for one of the larger Microsoft Partners in the New York metropolitan area. One of our largest clients is a recognizable national brand name, and has been a 100% Microsoft shop since they migrated off of Novell. Anything that they have a need for that Microsoft can supply they use both on server and desktop.

We are currently assisting them with a project to evaluate Linux on the desktop. The project consistent of three phases: GUI/application selection, limited user adaptation testing, departmental rollout. We are presently in phase two, and there has not been a revolt. Although the users are not embracing with vigor that the Slashdot community might like to see, at the same time the feedback has not at all been negative.

The departmental rollout phase will be done on a department by department basis, and users that not have a Windows only application will be switched. They intention is to have a hybrid Microsoft/Linux desktop environment, not a one-or-the-other approach.

While this project wasn’t given serious consideration when first proposed, it now has the full backing of management. And, if this firm successfully deploys this, I am sure that other boardrooms will consider this type of solution as well.

I intentionally didn’t mention distribution, browser or office suite names as I think that they are irrelevant.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

A windows box looked after by someone with half the clue required to maintain a linux box

So, what, 5 percent of the population? 6? Your argument is invalid for the typical user.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

WPA2 wifi security. Sound. No i'm not talking about getting some sounds out of your DE, i'm talking about not having to faff about with different sound daemons or exclusive locks over the sound hardware to run any app that uses the sound hardware.

Did you even read the comment you responded to? He linked to a vendor that sells exclusively Linux based laptops with hardware designed specifically for the purpose. Everything works. Since you're bringing up running Linux on hardware that's obviously not designed for it, why don't you tell us how well OSX works in a similar situation? I'd bet that you will have a much better chance of Linux working on a random laptop rather than OSX. But don't let facts get in the way of your hypocracy.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

Point being, a secure machine requires some level of system administration. Whether its not using windows like a fucktard, or running Linux. Less so with the mac, simply due to the reduced number of threats currently out there, and lack of services running by default.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

Both Windows and OS X handle 802.1x and WPA2 just fine.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

You really haven't dealt with many apps that make sound on linux, have you? Its nothing to do with hardware support, the entire Linux audio subsystem is a fucking disgrace - multiple incompatible sound systems, hit or miss multichannel support, some apps that lock exclusive use of the audio subsystem, etc.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Doctor_Jest]

I don't generally have that problem... I just go to Dell's outlet site and grab a "scratch and dent" Inspiron or whatever, wipe the HDD and install Debian. My current main PC is an Athlon running Squeeze. I never bothered with Windows (which came preloaded)... just gave myself 2 more gigs of memory and was done with it. I do rather hate the fact that I'll have to upgrade the power supply if I get a new video card (currently running on the "adequate" onboard video)... though to be honest, the onboard video handles HD playback fine... As for laptops, I've not encountered any problems from my HP Mini or my old Dell... which based on its age would be considered one of the "problem" laptops for getting stuff to work. I'm amazed that Debian is so smooth... I've found my distro... I won't switch now. :)

My desktop was purchased for $269.... you can't beat it. I can't even get an old Mac for that price... well one that would run anything remotely recent.

The only thing people have to do is try. Just see the defaults... There's not been that much flap over "windows only" hardware in quite a while now. Sure it still exists, but it's less and less each year. It is no longer profitable to make hardware not "play nice" with other operating systems. I rather think it is because the market and visibility for Linux has grown since the days of "100% Windows".

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

I love linux, and I'm a command-line junkie. OS X, Windows, Linux - I use the CLI on all these systems daily. I install Cygwin so I can use bash and other essential tools on Windows too.

I wouldn't put Linux on my desktop system unless someone paid me serious money to do so. I assure you, it has nothing to do with Microsoft's horseshit in the past.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

To be fair, powershell is somewhat funky and nothing like your dad's command line from 1980s unix. as far as CLIs go, it is pretty state of the art.

It has plenty of bugs (i found a couple of them in the lab whilst doing the course :D), but the concept of passing objects around is kinda neat, and allows you to do some powerful things without needing to fuck about munging text formats between executables in a pipe.

To get to that point, the .net framework needed to be significantly integrated into massive parts of Windows. the chances of something like powershell taking off on Linux or anywhere else is pretty minimal.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[ifiwereasculptor]

Support a wider variety of filesystems?

Work with most integrated audio chipsets out of the box? (Windows has me hunting for drivers whenever I have to reinstall and the mb cd is missing - actually Linux plug-and-play has been way better than Windows for quite some time, now. When it fails, though, it sucks badly.)

Repositories (or ye olde app store)? (Windows 8 might negate that advantage)

In that same vein, the absence of a registry.

Oh, memory requirements. Windows needs way more RAM at boot than even Kubuntu.

There's plenty of things, really. Windows came a long way in recent years and 7 is the best yet, but it's not a perfect system. Though I support your view that for the average user Linux offers little more advantage than whatever the Windows license cost, that's not why Linux isn't as ubiquitous as it should be. It's a mix of lack of software support and alternatives (getting better all the time) and the neverending breakage of shit. If people ran only CentOS or Debian stable, then their outdated crap would keep running flawlessly forever and annoying changes would only come every two years or so. But we don't.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[aztracker1]

Well, *I* have.. so have several friends, and even some family... this includes various distros over the past decade and a half. I have it in my router, and on my phone... my newer nas is bsd based (freenas) and I run linux VMs as a playground and some server chores. I actually kind of like unity... I have a mac laptop as well... I tend to lie win7's approach the most, but appreciate some of osx, though not where it's headed. At this point it would take a lot to et my to hoist linux as a desktop on someone... generally two virus/malware infections (it works well enough for kids' desktops, as long as flash works, for web games... even then not all kids... that's about it.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Zero__Kelvin]

I notice you don't offer a reason. I am quite certain that if you did it would expose you as a person who has no idea what he is talking about.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Without addressing whether his claims are factual correct, his argument is certainly valid, because the whole comparison is Windows vs. Linux. If people can't maintain Linux, then they can't move to it regardless of whether that would save them from malware.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Man you're so behind the times it burns. Last I checked, all 3 options "just worked" for me and mine. I'm not saying you don't have to dig to get some things working, but the same was true in my experience for all three as well. I'm sure if you're after top-tier support for the latest-and-greatest hardware, you'll have trouble.

But then, sure, if you've got a bone to pick with Linux because something didn't work out of the box, then it's easier to justify saying that. Just like it's easy for someone burned by Windows 7 or OSX to say they suck.

Still, seriously, get with the times. Linux is hardly the maelstrom of vapid, non-functional and average-user-chasing-away sentiment that you seem to think it is. My own mother has been using it for years without knowing the difference, and she is as casual as it gets.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

The argument that Linux could ever take off on the desktop is based on the idea that it's equally easy to use for a complete novice. Unless you regularly deal with people who are genuinely novices, you really don't understand just how much changing things scares them.

Fear? Try frustration.

Right now, a Windows user knows (s)he can, say, place an install CD/DVD into the drive and then click on the friendly and/or colorful prompts that are sure to appear immediately afterwards. Within a few minutes (much of that time taken up entering CD keys, etc...) the Windows novice will be able to click on a new desktop icon and begin using the software.

Even installing a new device is relatively painless these days, even for those novice Windows users. If it doesn't involve playing with screwdrivers, almost anyone can plug in that new shiny and find it up-and-running within minutes, thanks to automagical driver installs that take place (mostly) without user intervention.

Not so with Linux.

Until software installs are that easy, and without anything even remotely resembling sudo apt-get whatever u fail it, etc, and once device drivers install themselves, without requiring arcane, specialized knowledge of any kind, the vast majority of computer users will have zero interest in Linux.

This is not irrational anti-Linux, Windows fanboy trolling or flamebaiting. It's simple fact. Like it or not.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

True. I used to keep all my PC's up to date with the latest flavour-of-the-month Linux disro - Red Hat, Debian, Ubuntu, you name it. Great fun, if you have the time.

But I have calmed down, because my setup now Just Works: Debian server, Win7 laptop (so I can work @ home with corporate stuff), XP Laptop (for the wife), OSX (to play with)

Haven't got time anymore to bugger around...

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[DaveV1.0]

Yes, a vendor makes a system specifically for use with Linux, using tech that Linux has drivers for, and sets up Linux on it for the customer so it just works.

Now, try installing Linux on 20 different laptops and tell me how you do.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Next year...

I've been using a Linux Desktop for the past [counts on fingers... runs out... ] 14 years, so as far as I'm concerned the year of the linux desktop started in 1998 and continues to the present day.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[DaveV1.0]

Name something Linux does that Windows doesn't. Or something that Linux does better than Windows.

Not get viruses and trojans, dumbass. Duh.

Yet. Just look at Apple and OS X.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you but linux 'just works' most of the time. Also, the argument about 'significant UI change' is silly - look at windows 8. Obviously, 'significant UI change[s]' isn't a deciding factor.

Look, most end users go on facebook, check their email, putz around with itunes.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[smash]

My actual point is that the linux stats are somewhat skewed, because the people using the linux machines are slightly more cluey than the average windows user. Also, the number of threats is much lower because its hard enough writing a legitimate app that will run properly across all the distributions, let alone an exploit.

The user base of "linux" might be growing, but the fragmentation (numeber of distributions out there) is growing also.

Take a competent admin, put him in charge of a linux box, OR a windows box and the box will be secure. Take an idiot, and whether or not the linux box actually gets owned or not, my bet is that shortly after install, unless the install media was brand new there will be several known-exploitable holes in the installation, the firewall will be OFF, and the user will enter the root password whenever prompted by random software they have no idea about.

We aren't dealing with Windows XP or Windows 98 any more here. An out of the box Windows 7 install these days, when left at the recommended/default security settings (i.e., firewall ON, no Java installed, and UAC left on) is reasonably robust, so long as you keep it patched.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[samoanbiscuit]

Please give some in-depth information about the relative market share of System76 compared to HP or Dell's consumer hardware. I'm also curious about whether System76 is price competitive with them, and whether they sell through retail channels like Best Buy? I support Linux as much as the next FOSS enthusiast, but seriously, unless a big boy like Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer or ASUS goes on a big marketing push, there will NEVER be a Year of the Linux Desktop. Never. Not that it's particularly needed, desktops seem to be relegated to the back burner compared to touch interfaces these days.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

Please give some in-depth information about the relative market share of System76 compared to HP or Dell's consumer hardware.

I don't have that information, sorry. I don't even know how to get those numbers for HP or Dell. But if I had to guess, they're probably don't even have a full digit penetration outside of geek circles.

whether they sell through retail channels like Best Buy?

No idea, about the US, but 'Idea' in Poland sold some System76, which is how I first learned of them.

I support Linux as much as the next FOSS enthusiast

I'm not a FOSS enthusiast.

there will NEVER be a Year of the Linux Desktop.

That's not something I'm trying to promote or work towards either.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

By digit, I mean a digit in the form of a percentage.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

Yes, a vendor makes a system specifically for use with Linux, using tech that Linux has drivers for, and sets up Linux on it for the customer so it just works.

Exactly, now, that doesn't always mean though that the next OS version is going to be a 'perfect' upgrade sadly.

Now, try installing Linux on 20 different laptops and tell me how you do.

Speaking as someone who did have to work with volume licensing and mass upgrades of systems.. I would have to guess the experience would be better than mine when I had to install Vista on XP laptops and 7 on Vista laptops. I distinctly get the impression I would have had more 'usable' laptops some how.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

You really haven't dealt with many apps that make sound on linux, have you? Its nothing to do with hardware support

To be honest, I've had few issues when ALSA was handling mixing properly - It could mix in pulse, ALSA just fine together. I never had to touch the ALSA configuration on Linux OEM hardware.

multiple incompatible sound systems, hit or miss multichannel support, some apps that lock exclusive use of the audio subsystem, etc.

Pretty sure I could use ESD, Arts and other APIs with pulse audio just fine? But even if I wasn't using pulse audio, I remember some years back when I had both yiff and arts running at the same time, talking to ALSA just fine at the same time with no issues.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[oakgrove]

Only on hardware designed to work with them. Same as with Linux. If you are having wpa2 issues with Linux you are probably using a card with a ralink chipset. It is notorious for being shitty.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[oakgrove]

Try installing OSX on 20 different laptops and see how far you get. The main difference is with Linux you have a pretty good chance that most of those laptops will run just fine whereas with OSX...I think you know.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[oakgrove]

When you buy a Linux system from Dell or System76, they will provide the updates for you and the drivers in my experience always work.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Ash-Fox]

When you buy a Linux system from Dell or System76, they will provide the updates for you and the drivers in my experience always work.

I don't know about Linux from Dell, but on Windows that hasn't always been the case.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the year after...

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

After a recent hard disk crash on an iMac 21.5 I had to deal with tech support for both Microsoft (Microsoft Office 2008 under Windows XP/Parallels 7.0) and Apple Support (Safari under Mountain Lion). I never got anyone at Microsoft with technical savvy. Their people all tried to convert me to Office 2011. By comparison, Apple put a first rate high level tech on who found the offending library file. This has been my standard experience with technical support from the two companies over the years.

Linux is open source and we can at least look into the problem ourselves.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

> In that same vein, the absence of a registry.

wait a minute.... gconf, dconf, akonadi framework, "intelligent" init systems.... All these beasts are just a bad or even worse than what Windows has.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[DaveV1.0]

Apple made OSX specifically for Apple hardware and only licenses it for use with Apple hardware, so you are using a false comparison. Try installing Windows 7 on 20 differnt laptops and see how far you get. Are you done being deliberately stupid, troll?

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[oakgrove]

Apple made OSX specifically for Apple hardware

In your rush to be an obnoxious troll you forgot the other half of that equation which is that the hardware is also made with OSX in mind. Just like there is hardware made with Linux in mind, e.g., ships with Linux drivers. Compare like to like. Now go and choke on your own tongue.

Re:Year of the Linux Desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

Much like Linux then.

2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[0100010001010011]

Meanwhile Porsche and BMW 'have' to split the rest of the vehicles.

Apple is rich. As in very, very, very rich. Something tells me they really don't care.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[Anonymous Coward]

But they're struggling! They're struggling to beat Vista, see? They don't care about selling millions of iPhones and iPads and being the most valuable publicly traded company on the planet. They just want to beat Vista. It was Job's dream. Vista just is too popular, beloved, and has epic brand recognition value. Sorry Apple, Vista is like highly pure, addictive meth.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're comparing Vista to a BMW? That's mighty generous of you! :)

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is rich. As in very, very, very rich. Something tells me they really don't care.

Something* tells me they care. They care a lot. However much they succeed (and they have done astonishingly well), they can't cope with a world in which other people succeeding too.

* oh yeah, it's all those lawsuits

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[93 Escort Wagon]

It's been obvious for a long time there's a substantial disconnect regarding market share. Apple/OS X appears to be a very popular choice for people's personal computers; but, for most businesses, it's made fewer inroads. The places you'll find it used for work are creative fields - advertising, marketing, and design... but those are small potatoes in terms of overall numbers of computers.

There are also significant overall differences regionally. Macs are almost never used in Asia, for instance.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[bloodhawk]

Apple do care a LOT. For all their success they are massively lopsided on the revenue/profit front to one product, a consumer based phone that is subject to the whims of fashion and fads of the consumer. This market can evaporate almost overnight for them, they NEED something far more future revenue proof.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[hawk]

Actually, at the moment, Apple is seeing significant adoption in law offices. I see more iPads in court than everything else put together, and iPhone seems to be a strong majority for lawyers at this point. Mac is following these into law offices at a rate never before seen. Enough that I dusted off a 20 year old product, rewrote it, and am now the only mac provider of bankruptcy petition software http://dochawkbk.com/. The irony, of course, is that the first sale was to a windows user :) hawk, esq

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me a rich person/company that doesn't want to be richer.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[shutdown -p now]

Apple is rich off iOS, not off OS X. And TFA is about desktop operating systems, not mobile.

Re:2012 Camry over takes 2009 Camry.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Actually, at the moment, Apple is seeing significant adoption in law offices.

I see more iPads in court than everything else put together, and iPhone seems to be a strong majority for lawyers at this point.

Probably not with Samsung's legal team though. :-P

Worldwide? Probably not

[A Friendly Troll]

OSX isn't very used outside the western world. So, I guess it has a lower worldwide marketshare, whereas Linux might have a higher one.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[BasilBrush]

It's not difficult to guage desktop linux next to the other OSs on a global basis. Web stats do that. And the hypothesis that Linux might have a higher share than OSX isn't born out by the data.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

The West is a overused term. That said, I see a lot of Apple laptops here in Japan.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[KiloByte]

For example, Poland:
* Android: 1.45%
* Linux: 0.82% (yeah, obviously with Android excluded)
* OS X:: 0.73%
* iOS: 0.69%

As a kid, I had access to one of first PC XTs in Poland, and after all those years, I have yet to see a live Mac (ssh / hackintosh excluded). So I find even that 0.73% value dubious.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX isn't very used outside the western world. So, I guess it has a lower worldwide marketshare, whereas Linux might have a higher one.

False. I live in Egypt and people use OSX all the time.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX isn't very used outside the western world. So, I guess it has a lower worldwide marketshare, whereas Linux might have a higher one.

False. I live in Egypt and people use OSX all the time.

I didn't know that egyptians were in such good financial situation...

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Kjella]

StatCounter has a nice selection where you can drill down to continents or even single countries, they put OS X at 14% market share in the US, 7% worldwide. Vista is at 12% and 8% respectively, so not a bad comparison in either case. Not really surprising though, since they're expensive computers you'd probably find in the rich parts of the world. Unfortunately you can't get figures for Linux since it gets lumped into the "other" category, it barely registers in Germany which is typically extremely open source friendly with 2%. Globally I think most say 1% with a rather random spattering depending on the open source culture of the country more than wealth.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[ACS Solver]

I can relate. I lived in Latvia until a year ago, and while that's a Western country by now, it's also one with much lower income levels than the "proper" Western countries, besides, the whole free market thing is kinda new there.

Thinking about the previous 10 years or so, I think I had seen people with Macs something like 3 or 4 times total. Most people I talked to didn't even know Macs existed, although starting in 2005-2006 I met a fair amount of people who had heard of Linux as an alternative option. After moving to Sweden, I literally saw more Macs being used on my first day than I had seen in Latvia, ever.

Also puts me in an interesting position where I'm a knowledgable computer geek and have used many OSes, but not OS X. The last time I used a Mac was with Mac OS 8, and even that was brief. I think I should just install a Hackintosh at home one weekend because I am curious to play with OS X, to see how it works and whether I'll find it as easy as it's supposed to be.

Oh, and if anyone is curious to the reason why Macs are essentially non-existent in Latvia, it's simple - prices. Macs there cost as much as anywhere else, which in terms of Latvian incomes places them firmly in the luxury item category (especially until a few years ago). Together with the essentially ubiquitous piracy among privately owned computers, it makes the idea of buying a Mac very strange. Case in point, with iPads. Having just checked the prices, an iPad 3 with 16 GB Wi-Fi only in Latvia costs 339 lats, the same with 4G costs 425 lats (not including data plan). MacBooks start at 895 lats. The average monthly income in 2011 after taxes for those employed in Latvia was 330 lats (about 600 USD at today's rate). Puts things into perspective.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[ColdWetDog]

The West is a overused term. That said, I see a lot of Apple laptops here in Japan.

Hell, you're way West from me, and I'm in Alaska. You're so West that you could be considered East.

Now I'm all dizzy.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

There was an Algerian girl in my class last semester who was fucking glued to her iPad. Despite what they say on Foxnews not everyone in north Africa is some kind of freaky Islamic militant riding a camel with a rock launcher strapped to his back...

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[baka_toroi]

I think Japan is the exception. Show me another Asian country with such a high adoption of Apple computers.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

Singapore has a very high rate of apple ownership from what I've seen.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

Korea! Oh, hang on, they're actually Samsungs when you get within a couple of feet of them. My bad.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[aNonnyMouseCowered]

West and East are directions on a map, where the possibility of falling off the edge is very great.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[just another AC]

If you are concerned about playing with the OS, why not just find an OS X vm image on the net and download and tinker away?

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

dont bother, everything is downhill beginning with lion. you shouldve jumped on when steve was still alive and his nextstep guy was still leading os x development

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[shutdown -p now]

The whole point of having all those glowing Apple logos is so that you don't neet to get within a couple of feet of someone to know that he's using an Apple laptop, and therefore is hip and cool and worthy of your attention.

Re:Worldwide? Probably not

[Anonymous Coward]

Those countries are rich in oil, AND Islamic. Just because they can afford not just iPads but also Airbooks doesn't mean that they are not some kind of freaky Islamic militants riding, not camels, but Mercedes trucks with rocket launchers strapped on. I'd say those OPEC countries have enough cash to afford the most expensive computers out there - they could possibly afford one itanium per child - and are the exception to the rule about Apple not being that popular outside the West. Note that Japan and Singapore are culturally more a part of the West - almost like Australia - than they are a part of the East - as in China, India, Thailand, Philippines, et al.

It's all about the mojo

[nysus]

OS X has it, Windows doesn't. And I think Win 8 will throw more mojo to OS X's direction.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Thantik]

I actually hope this. Not because I wish Apple well being or anything like that, but I realize the hop from OSX -> Linux is a much shorter one than the hop from getting developers targeting OSX from Windows. Valve actually reused a _bunch_ of their Mac code in order to start their Linux port.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

New Apple ad copy:

"OS X: Better than the Steaming Pile of Crap that is Vista!
(and with EXTRA mojo!)"

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

And? That copy came in and ran Unix out of town in practically every niche it existed in. Being "Unix" doesn't mean shit. It isn't the standard anymore.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[gl4ss]

wtf is mojo? osx is horrible mishmash of ui elements tacked on one after another nowadays. launchpad? shit. widget screen? shit(and apple has widgets on it's library which just lockup the whole thing). high dpi support? in osx it's a fucking joke, it's beyond shit(it doesn't exist! it's a myth! that's why the retina macs have to resort to just doubling legacy apps without even asking the user in any way if he wants that)! ui menus detached from apps on a big screen? shit(having no idea which programs menu is there without looking there negates the advantage of it being always in the same place, and really on a 30" inch monitor do you really want the menu to be three light years away from the actual application it affects?`no.). the taskbar replacement-shitdock? it's shit too, the bubble effect is a nice ui demo but that's it(the indicator for if a program is on is a joke too). - what's more, it's not intuitive at all! there's dozens of things in osx you just have to know, half the users don't even know wtf launchpad is.

7 is where it's at, doesn't get in the way, menus don't get lost. and hey even gimp managed to now get with the program on it's windows port so it's subwindows don't get lost all over the place. it's just clean ui like a good afterstep installation.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[cpu6502]

Having Apple rearrange your desktop is a "feature" for those artistic types that barely understand technology. They like that Apple comes along every +0.1 iteration and cleans-up the mess the artist or musician left behind. (Just like they enjoy a maid to come visit their house once in awhile, even if things end-up rearranged.)

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Ash-Fox]

Can you show me the source of information that told you they reused code, please? Thanks.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

I ran into a real life situation like this with an embryonic company last week. The "executives" are using OS X while the "workers" are using Ubuntu. They are using a bunch of custom LAMP & MAMP enabled MySQL databases to to the daily time tracking and work assignment. It's there hope things get to include Windows eventually (since their outside accounting agency is 100% Windows) but for now it's not yet on the radar.

You don't realize how much extra effort Windows takes until you leave it out :-)

Re:It's all about the mojo

[_xeno_]

launchpad? shit.

I tried pulling it off the Dock on my work Mac. It added it back for me. (I have a work project that involves writing an iPad app (for no reason, mind you, other than it's a buzzword), which means I have a Mac as my work machine. In case anyone wonders why I use a Mac.)

high dpi support? in osx it's a fucking joke, it's beyond shit

If anyone doesn't believe this, you should read the Mozilla bug on getting high DPI support on Mac OS X in Firefox. Basically, it's never going to happen because the API for doing it is so fucked up. ("But isn't it just rendering things at twice resolution?" Read the bug. It isn't. There are so many edge cases it isn't funny.)

ui menus detached from apps on a big screen?

I am convinced no one at Apple has ever tried running a Mac OS X on multiple monitors. It is beyond shit at that. It basically runs on the iPad model of "one app at a time." What, you want your test app in one monitor while the debugger is in the other? Fuck you! You get one menu bar, telling which app is focused is impossible, and whichever app isn't on the "dominant" screen has the menu bar on the wrong monitor.

what's more, it's not intuitive at all! there's dozens of things in osx you just have to know, half the users don't even know wtf launchpad is.

Remember how everyone hates that Gnome 3 app launcher thing? The thing that Ubuntu started forcing on everyone? Remember how everyone hates the Metro UI, to the point Microsoft has dropped the "metro" brand? That's the fucking Launchpad. Apparently it's been decided from on high that people like losing their entire screen to a display of giant icons they can slowly scroll through to find whatever they actually wanted. Bleh.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Jeremy Erwin]

Wow, you must really have enjoyed the human centipad. Sounds like it was right up your alley.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[RocketRabbit]

I pulled Launchpad off my dock long ago and haven't seen it since. Apple isn't forcing anybody to use it, and in fact they had the same exact thing in the Classic Mac OS starting with System 7.1 - it's there for children and grannies whose computers confuse them.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[ToastedRhino]

It's simply not true that Launchpad gets "added back." I removed it in Lion and it's never returned. I also remove it for others all the time (by simply dragging it out of the Dock) and have never had anyone tell me it got automatically added back. Perhaps this has something to do with the set up at your work automatically putting it back (is it a managed environment?) but this is not a feature of the OS by any means. You remove something from the Dock and it stays gone.

That being said, I don't know why people make Launchpad such a big issue. Launchpad is an application. Nothing more. Just don't use it. It's not difficult. Launching apps in the traditional manner still works just fine. I do it every day. Nothing was "decided from on high" or forced upon you. I thought more options were a plus with the Slashdot crowd, anyway. Isn't Apple constantly being shit on for not providing users with options? Apparently when they do provide options that's a problem too.

I'm not in a position to comment on HiDPI other than to say that it hasn't been implemented by everyone yet. I plan to read the Mozilla bug, and so will leave it at that. That being said, Apple at least seems to be the closest to having a HiDPI solution for the desktop when compared to its competitors. I'll prepare myself to eat crow on this one though once I've read all of the facts.

Also, I agree fully that menu bar support on multiple monitors is pretty broken. I'll also point out that 99% of computer (not just Mac) users don't have multiple monitors. (Yes, I pulled that number out of nowhere, but I feel like it's within 5% of the truth.) Therefore it's obviously not a priority for Apple. Should they fix it? Of course. Will they? It's not super likely. This is a legitimate reason not to use OS X. If it's a deal breaker for you then you should definitely move to something else. I think Apple would agree.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

ui menus detached from apps on a big screen? shit(having no idea which programs menu is there without looking there negates the advantage of it being always in the same place, and really on a 30" inch monitor do you really want the menu to be three light years away from the actual application it affects?`no.

I agree that sucks, but the biggest problem is that people (including apple) don't follow the HIG - you aren't supposed to need to use the menu for anything. IMO, that's a good thing for most situations: I prefer inspectors and palettes myself, or the emacs approach of hiding the menu entirely.

the taskbar replacement-shitdock? it's shit too, the bubble effect is a nice ui demo but that's it(the indicator for if a program is on is a joke too). - what's more, it's not intuitive at all!

If you read the Apple documentation, you'd see that that is by design - the intent is that unused but open apps should use minimal resources so there is little benefit to closing them (especially since everything uses the same DE libraries), and apps are supposed to remember their state so the difference between opening a closed app and switching to an already-open one is supposed to be minimal.

half the users don't even know wtf launchpad is.

Launchpad is just pretty eye candy, and doesn't really provide much difference in functionality to the Applications folder stack, but it is pretty obvious what it is once you click on it.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Dynedain]

high dpi support? in osx it's a fucking joke, it's beyond shit

If anyone doesn't believe this, you should read the Mozilla bug on getting high DPI support on Mac OS X in Firefox. Basically, it's never going to happen because the API for doing it is so fucked up. ("But isn't it just rendering things at twice resolution?" Read the bug. It isn't. There are so many edge cases it isn't funny.)

Yet somehow, when my new laptop showed up in early July, Chrome had support for retina display in the beta channel, and had it in the mainstream release 2 weeks or so later.

Mozilla's inability to implement features is not a good indicator of how difficult the API is to use. A big part of Mozilla's problem is that they insist on using their own font rendering engine for both the window chrome as well as the contents, instead of relying on the OS to do it.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[unixisc]

Mojo or not, the reason OS-X struggles to catch up to even Vista is simple - it's available only on Macs. Had Apple made OS-X something that could be installed on non-Apple PCs, one would probably see it not only overtake Vista, but replace a good portion of XP boxes.

Since that's not going to happen, the best thing that can happen is if PC-BSD becomes capable of running all Mac apps natively, so that it can be easily accepted in the market.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

On the plus side, other than the icon taking up space in the dock, not knowing what LaunchPad is doesn't really affect operation on OS X. I don't use it. I hardly see it (sometimes I fumble with some key or mouse combination I can't recall, and it pops up). I think you can disable it in system preferences, but I still haven't bothered. If it's not in my face all the time, then I don't really care. At least they had the common sense to do that. I should mention that I'm using 10.7. Please tell me they weren't stupid enough to make it more obnoxious in 10.8?

As for not having detached menus for big/multiple screens, yeah, I don't get that. I've used OS X from the days before it was OS X -- i.e. when it was NextStep. NextStep had a nice menu system where you could tear off any submenu, leave it on the desktop somewhere, and it would stay put and remember locations even between invocations of the program. You could arrange the most commonly used menus the way you wanted on-screen, and they went away when that application wasn't active. Whatever happened to that functionality, I don't know. Abandoned, apparently. But it was quite useful and would be more useful now that big and multiple screens are commonplace.

Re:It's all about the mojo

[Anonymous Coward]

On the plus side, other than the icon taking up space in the dock, not knowing what LaunchPad is doesn't really affect operation on OS X. I don't use it. I hardly see it (sometimes I fumble with some key or mouse combination I can't recall, and it pops up). I think you can disable it in system preferences, but I still haven't bothered. If it's not in my face all the time, then I don't really care. At least they had the common sense to do that. I should mention that I'm using 10.7. Please tell me they weren't stupid enough to make it more obnoxious in 10.8?

They weren't. It's the same thing, just with a couple new features (such as a search box while you're in Launchpad). Getting into and out of Launchpad is identical to 10.7. You can use it if you like it, or ignore it if you don't.

The only thing that's even remotely annoying about it is that one of the function keys on 2011 and newer model year Macs is a Launchpad activation button, but the level of annoyance is so mild that I haven't bothered to unmap it (which you can).

The Others

[David89]

Keep going "Other" team!!

Whitespace

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm apple right now, all I'm thinking is "look how much farther we have to grow!"

Re:Whitespace

[Anonymous Coward]

And how much more money we can still make!

Especially if we convert most phone users (still majority is dumb phones) to iPhones!

Rich rich rich rich!

Suck it Dell, HP, Lenovo while taking your 5% margins and fail to innovate.

XP will continue to drop

[sandytaru]

My office is no longer putting XP systems out there - any system running XP that is brought into the shop is now automatically replaced as a matter of policy (for our business clients.) Sometimes we have to twist their arms, but frankly, we've got a deadline in 2014 and we're going to make our clients meet it whether they want to or not. XP market share is likely to plummet rapidly in the next 2-3 years.

Re:XP will continue to drop

[Mspangler]

True enough. My employer is trying to switch to Windows 7 again. The first attempt failed when some app in bean-counter land failed to function. So after a three month delay, they are trying again.

The prepare for migration instructions this time are much more alarming. Instead of instead of "expect a few hours of minor disruption," It's "Make multiple full back ups of all important data, and we will be wiping your photos and music directories, and if you have applications we did not install through the software management system, you had better have the install disks, and by the way make sure you have a back up of all critical data."

A definite change in tone :-)

 

Re:XP will continue to drop

[lennier1]

Sounds familiar. We're currently in the preparation phase to migrate over two thousand Atom-based devices at customer locations all over the country to Linux.

Re:XP will continue to drop

[ColdWetDog]

A definite change in tone :-)

Sounds like a good change in tone. Backup, cleanup, get real about doing business at work.

Love it!

Re:XP will continue to drop

[tibit]

That's weird. We serve our Windows XP and 7 domain member machines from a Samba server on an RHEL system, and when Windows 7 came around I wrote some scripts to port the most important aspects of user profiles to the new profile scheme that win7 uses and that was it. I can't imagine what's this silliness about multiple full backups, and wiping document folders. Someone is lazy. Even on windows you've got powershell so you can automate all that.

Re:XP will continue to drop

[TemporalBeing]

My office is no longer putting XP systems out there - any system running XP that is brought into the shop is now automatically replaced as a matter of policy (for our business clients.) Sometimes we have to twist their arms, but frankly, we've got a deadline in 2014 and we're going to make our clients meet it whether they want to or not. XP market share is likely to plummet rapidly in the next 2-3 years.

Oddly enough, my part of the company tries to use the latest version of Windows - we typically don't care and update the software as things come along.

However, our parent company is stuck on WinXP, and doesn't seem like they have any interest in moving forward. Sadly it holds us back a little as one piece of crap equipment we are forced to use comes from another portion of the company that is doing the same thing (likely at the direction of the parent company).

Re:XP will continue to drop

[TemporalBeing]

Forgot to say - our own products mainly run on DOS (legacy) and Linux (current). Windows is just the end-user portion of the system. The parent company and other units are extremely tied to Windows.

Methodology?

[Danious]

Some of the history there looks a bit sus. And how much can you trust figures that give iOS 66% of the mobile OS market and Android only 21%?

Re:Methodology?

[Missing.Matter]

iOS includes iPads and iPods, which vastly outsell Android equivalents.

Re:Methodology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahah, fail on not knowing what devices contain what OSes.

Re:Methodology?

[oakgrove]

Android ships on over a million devices a day and that doesn't even include the large numbers of non-Google sanctioned gear. Is Apple really moving that many iDevice?

Re:Methodology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Estimating OS usage by browser marketshare is useless. Every stats tracker out there says different things and fanboys swing them around shouting "But THIS stat shows $MY_OS_OF_CHOICE is beating $YOUR_OS_OF_CHOICE". Gartner's sales reports are somewhat more useful in this respect.

Re:Methodology?

[Kjella]

Android ships on over a million devices a day and that doesn't even include the large numbers of non-Google sanctioned gear. Is Apple really moving that many iDevice?

A quick look at my price check shows you get an Android phone with crappy screen and practically useless for surfing from 800 NOK, the iPhone 4 is 4000 NOK. So Android might be selling many phones, but they probably also sell to many more people that never or only occasionally use it to browse the web, while if you're spending 5x that you probably do that for a reason (or you're just an Apple fanboi) and is going to use it actively. So I have no real problem believing these figures.

Re:Methodology?

[oakgrove]

So Android might be selling many phones, but they probably also sell to many more people that never or only occasionally use it to browse the web, while if you're spending 5x that you probably do that for a reason (or you're just an Apple fanboi) and is going to use it actively. So I have no real problem believing these figures.

I don't have a problem believing the figures of there being more iOS devices spending time on the 'net but I do have a hard time believing there are more iOS devices being sold.

Re:Methodology?

[Anonymous Coward]

So Android might be selling many phones, but they probably also sell to many more people that never or only occasionally use it to browse the web, while if you're spending 5x that you probably do that for a reason (or you're just an Apple fanboi) and is going to use it actively. So I have no real problem believing these figures.

I don't have a problem believing the figures of there being more iOS devices spending time on the 'net but I do have a hard time believing there are more iOS devices being sold.

That's because you're not counting iPads & iPods. They're both iOS devices.

Re:Methodology?

[oakgrove]

That's because you're not counting iPads & iPods. They're both iOS devices.

On the contrary. I'm saying that iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches combined does not equal 1 million shipped units a day. Do you have reliable numbers that contradict this?

Re:Methodology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gartner's sales reports are more dubious every quarter as they miss reality by larger & larger percentages.

Re:Methodology?

[whisper_jeff]

It has nothing to do with device sales - it's about usage. It's widely accepted that iOS users surf the web more than Android users. While high end Android devices my get to comparable numbers, you must remember that there is a HUGE range of Android devices from extremely high end devices on the bleeding edge of technology to cheap pieces of crap that nobody in their right mind would want to use to access the internet. iOS devices, on the other hand, are all in the upper range of technology and all are ideally suited to browsing the internet. Thus, iOS users browse the internet significantly more than Android users despite Android devices outselling (as a whole) iOS devices.

Re:Methodology?

[oakgrove]

iOS includes iPads and iPods, which vastly outsell Android equivalents.

That's what I was responding to. You're saying that doesn't have anything to do with sales when that's exactly what the guy is saying? If you want to talk about internet usage then start a new conversation about it but trying to reframe this one to fit your talking points isn't going to get you very far.

Re:Methodology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look up market share in a dictionary. Big surprise: the market figures are actually about selling products rather than usage statistics.

I must admit you've learned a lot from Apple marketing to redefine common terms to make an argument. Here's a bonus why don't you define the market by all devices not on Apple's ban list?

Re:Methodology?

[Xest]

That would be a sensible theory to answer the question if it were in any way true.

The problem is though the smartphone market is bigger than the tablet and MP3 player market combined, and Apple sells far far more iPhones than iPads and iPods combined, yet Android has over 3 times the marketshare of iOS in the smartphone market, and as such your theory unfortunately does not make any sense in the context of the actual cold hard data.

Games require windows 7?

[vlm]

Are there games requiring windows 7 yet?

I upgraded from 98 to 2000 because second life required 2000
I upgraded from 2000 to XP but I don't remember which game wouldn't work on 2000 but did on XP
I'll upgrade from XP to ... 7? when I find a game I want requiring windows 7.... I have not run into one yet, but I'm sure it'll happen someday?

I only upgraded to the most recent service pack of XP when I recently got the couple years old GTA IV.

For all other activities I use my linux and mac machines, the windows PC is just for gaming.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Kiraxa]

To use Direct X 10/11, which is superior both graphically and performance-wise, you need Vista or 7.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[oakgrove]

I'm not sure if there are any games that absolutely require it but there is the DirectX 10 and above issue that doesn't run on XP. Also my friends that run multiple instances of MMORPGs at a time say that the scheduling improvements in 7 make things a lot smoother for the purpose.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[DeathFromSomewhere]

Are there games requiring windows 7 yet?

There are a few that require vista and up for DirectX support.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Robert Zenz]

As far as I know, all games requiring DirectX11 are Vista+ only. Though, most are providing a fallback to DirectX 9.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[ciderbrew]

Nah not really. For what it's worth 7 isn't shit. Took 30 years to get here but it works just fine like XP sp3 did. More RAM wit the 64bit OS may make you want to move as games really start to fill out. TRIM support of SSD. but you can get by with an old box and XP for a while more - not much to play with all the DRM making it unwarrantable to go near.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea every game that requires DirectX 11 up until recently most games that supported DirectX 11 features had it as an option but you could still play the game in xp minus the visual effects that require DirectX 11 but more and more games are requiring that you upgrade to windows 7.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what is most likely driving the upgrade. XP_64 was garbage and there is difficulty with driver support.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[ciderbrew]

I played Batman Arc-City swapping between DirectX 9 to 11 and really didn't know which one I liked most. It ran smoother with 9; but my card is getting ready for upgrade. It's not worth spending money to upgrade to that's for sure.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Lonewolf666]

For me, the reason for upgrading is usually some technical limitation, often connected to getting a new PC.
  - I upgraded from 98 to 2000 because of stability problems. In hindsight, the main reason for the problems was a chipset bug, not 98 (fuck you, VIA!). But 2000 still was a nice improvement :)
  - I upgraded from 2000 to XP when I got a new PC in 2007. I never got it to run stable in 2000, in XP it worked fine. In hindsight, I suspect that the hardware vendors did not bother to test their drivers under 2000 anymore.
  - I upgraded from XP to 7(64bit) when I got a new PC in 2011. It has 4GB RAM, and under XP (32bit) a single process would be unable to use all of it. It is only a matter of time until some software actually needs that much.

   

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Nemyst]

Just wait until the 360 is retired, you'll see a major shift to DX11, which cannot run on XP.

Or you could also upgrade to 7 because it's plain and simply a better, more modern OS?

Re:Games require windows 7?

[gman003]

Let's see... Battlefield 3 is Vista/7 only, the next Call of Duty is Vista/7 only, probably more than that on the way.

Main reason is that Microsoft isn't porting Direct3D 10 or 11 back to XP - you can only go up to D3D 9. As more games are tending to use D3D10/11, the burden of adding a D3D9 renderer just for XP support increases.

And while XP and 7 may have just reached equality among the general population, gamers have upgraded far quicker. Looking at the Steam Hardware Survey, about 70% run some version of Windows 7, 13% run XP, 10% run Vista, 5% run OS X, and the rest are either already on W8 (0.25%) or "Unknown". Main reason, I think, is the prevalence of systems with >4GB of memory. 64-bit XP may have existed, but it was very rare, and had poor driver support. Vista was the first to ship with real 64-bit support, and 7 tried to make 64-bit the "default", moving 32-bit to "legacy". So all those gamers with 8-32GB of memory are running either Vista or 7.

Consoles tie into this, but in a somewhat weird way. See, the Xbox 360 is sort of halfway between D3D9 and D3D10. So as long as the game has a port to that console (or *is* a port from that console), making it run in D3D9 isn't exceptionally difficult. But as soon as the next-gen consoles hit, D3D9 (and thus, XP gaming) are toast.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[vlm]

Must have extensive fallback support. On that list I've got bioshock, civ 5, ddo, sto, all of them work fine on XP. If the graphics would be visibly better, I'll have to look into what W7 requires.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[vlm]

Or you could also upgrade to 7 because it's plain and simply a better, more modern OS?

LOL for me its a video game bootloader not a OS. "better" is defined as boots faster or somehow magically makes the game better, apparently I better start looking into what I'll need for DX11 etc.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[RogueyWon]

There have been minor ones that require Vista or 7. Rather laughably, I seem to remember that the PC version of Halo 2 (which is ancient) "required" Vista in an early (and unsuccessful) attempt to get people to upgrade.

It's only started to get more serious for XP gamers over the last year or so. The news that the next Call of Duty will require Vista or 7 on PC may be the last straw for some.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[ZosX]

Actually windows 7 was a vast improvement over XP. If you can't see that, then I guess you don't really know shit.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't really find a game that REQUIRES windows 7.

But you do need windows 7 64bit to run a good machine anymore. 3.5gig of memory is not enough now. And with memory being so dirt cheap. Theres just no reason not to have and use 8-16gig. Fuck swapping. Cache everything!

If xp64 wasnt complete shit. You could use that one. But. It is.

And eventually your graphics cards will want win7 too for the dx shit.

Time to get win7 64 and start learning how to make it back into xp. It's easy to do. Just time consuming.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[ciderbrew]

ohhhh get her.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Doctor_Jest]

But like Lewis Black said (regarding Arkansas schools, but this is appropriate):

"Hey, we moved up from shitty shitty shitty to stinky farty smelly!" (apologies for the paraphrasing).

It's all about perspective.... so I guess it's you who doesn't really know shit.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Narishma]

That list is a bit misleading. It lists any game that has support for DX10 or 11, even if it also supports DX9. What you should look at is the last column. If it says that the game only supports DX10 or 11, then it won't run on Windows XP.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Mashiki]

Are there games requiring windows 7 yet?

Yes. Are there many? No. But if you look at STEAM's HW survey for PC's you'll see that about 57% of the market is Windows7 these days. Now there's at peak about 4-5m users on, there's 30-35m accounts. Probably be a lot more since they're getting into selling retail applications through steam too. Which should give an even broader picture.

The only thing holding back DX11 in gaming is...can you guess it? Consoles.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[DeathFromSomewhere]

My post was a little misleading. The list is just games that support DirectX 10 and up. Most of them have fallback but some like Battlefield 3 and Dirt: Showdown don't. The real interesting part is the upcoming games section at the bottom, which has 7/8 games as DirectX 10 and up only.

The games with DirectX 10 and 11 support will run better on Windows 7 even if they only use DirectX 9 level features because of the improvements made to the threading model.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quantum Conundrum requires Windows 7 SP1.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[antdude]

For me, I still use XP Pro. SP3, Linux/Debian, and Mac OS X 10.5.8 because they work fine. I don't game anymore (maybe a few Flash games once in a while, but very rare), mostly surf, watch videos, listen to music, etc. I don't do anything fancy. I still have old MS Office 2000 SR-3 and LibreOffice and OpenOffice, but they are rarely used.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Pentium100]

But as soon as the next-gen consoles hit, D3D9 (and thus, XP gaming) are toast.

So, I guess it's time to start saving for a new PC - one that will be good enough for 5 or more years without replacing the motherboard. Reinstalling Windows is so tedious (not because of Windows, but because of all the apps and settings), that I might replace the main PC at the same time, making the transition easier (since I will still have the old installation for the times when I need it).

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Windows 7 is crap compared to XP. If you can't see that, then I guess you really don't know shit.

Opinions are fine, but when you label someone as an idiot for not sharing the same opinion as you, you become an asshole.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Pentium100]

It runs fine on XP SP3.

Re:Games require windows 7?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know Just Cause 2 requires a 64-bit system, but I don't know if it requires 7. It may have been compatible with Vista, which I never had on my personal machine(s).

trolling

[jbolden]

I have some questions about both the data and the summary.

In the July to August time frame the data has 1% of the users moving to "other". I'm assuming that 1% is some mixture of Windows 8 and OSX 10.8 betas because I can't think of any other big events that happened between July and August. Which means the math is likely off in the summary.

As an aside in the source data I have problems OSX being well above 8% (now at 12%) of sales and the figure for market share being around 6-7%. I'd love to see some breakdown that explicates the discrepancy between sales figures and usage figures when they show up, because they are rather common.

Re:trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

As an aside in the source data I have problems OSX being well above 8% (now at 12%) of sales and the figure for market share being around 6-7%. I'd love to see some breakdown that explicates the discrepancy between sales figures and usage figures when they show up, because they are rather common.

Well, when sales figures now are 12%, that doesn't mean they were 12% a few months ago. If win7 has a head start it's easy to have more usage now, when the sales figures stay like this, then the usage figure will follow, later, maybe much later.

(If december sells 10000 computers and A has 90% share, it will take a long time for B to overtake A if the following months only sell 1000 computers.)

Re:trolling

[Barlo_Mung_42]

A lot of people where I work run mac laptops because it is one of three or so options on the IT buy list. Almost all of them run Win7 on them. That type of thing may explain some of it.

Re:trolling

[whisper_jeff]

As an aside in the source data I have problems OSX being well above 8% (now at 12%) of sales and the figure for market share being around 6-7%. I'd love to see some breakdown that explicates the discrepancy between sales figures and usage figures when they show up, because they are rather common.

I imagine (and it's just a guess) that it has to do with people still using very old PCs. While sales percentages have shifted, legacy equipment still in use results in a discrepancy in usage percentages.

Just a guess though. It could also be the people running these surveys don't know their ass from their elbow.

Re:trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, there is some people connecting to internet with computers older than a month.

In order to gain marketshare you need to have a bigger share of the last monthly market data than in the in use share. So data is consistent.

Re:trolling

[jbolden]

That would actually explain it. You have a point the sales figures are for Apple Computers vs. Microsoft OEM's while the usage figures are for OSes. I'd be shocked though if a substantial fraction of Apple customers are blowing away OSX or even using Windows in a VM regularly. OTOH I've heard the move from PowerPC to Intel did a ton for Apple sales, so perhaps I'm underestimating.

Re:trolling

[jbolden]

They hit for the first time 3Q07 and 1Q08 they hit and stayed above it.

Re:trolling

[jbolden]

That could be true. Apple's numbers are low if you go '06 or before. And we do see lots of XP on there. That's a good point. What percentage of say 6-10 year computers do you think there are?

lol, typical slashdot headline

[smash]

Where does Linux figure in that list? :)

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[__aaltlg1547]

Where does Linux figure in that list? :)

"Other"

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[DeathFromSomewhere]

It's rolled into the "other" column at 3.74%.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[PPH]

If you expand the survey to include tablets and other mobile devices (what increasing numbers of people are using as their primary computing device), Android looks pretty respectable. Its behind iOS on tablets, but still making a respectable showing. Its ahead of iOS on phones. Windows mobile variants are down in the noise.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[oakgrove]

Who cares? Last I heard it's doing pretty well everywhere other than the desktop. I've got three Linux based consumer devices within arms reach and only one of them counts as a traditional PC.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[ZosX]

likewise. people are really ignoring the fact that android wouldn't haven been possible without linux and it really is the unsung hero.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Android could have easily used one of the BSDs as a base. In fact, it probably would have led to a higher quality product and better personal hygiene.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[jones_supa]

Who cares?

I guess it's still some kind of win for slashdotters to have Linux in as many machines as possible.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[ZosX]

but is bsd heavily optimized for mobile chipsets like linux?

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[oakgrove]

I guess it's still some kind of win for slashdotters to have Linux in as many machines as possible.

Um, probably because for people that use Linux, the more choice the better. Do I detect a hint of sour grapes?

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[codepunk]

Where does Linux figure in that list? :)

Simple, powering the destinations of nearly every single computer user on the internet.

Re:lol, typical slashdot headline

[oakgrove]

It's funny, I've seen the argument many times that Android could have been built on top of any number of other kernels and, yes, technically that is true. But they always forget the little details like power optimization, vendor experience with the system, the fact that Google is basically a full-scale Linux shop on their own servers, and on and on.

Yeah...

[Robert Zenz]

Latest market share figures show the difference between perception and reality.

Yeah, let's just call statistics from netmarketshare "reality".

Not Complete

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Still Using W2K

The interface is not the OS

[Zimluura]

I think that the idea of an OS being able to be "beautiful" is sort or wonky. There is no reason such an interface couldn't run on winXP, win2k, or even somewhat in NT4, all you really need is the opengl support in the OS & drivers and you can do nifty things with alpha channel.

I'm also not convinced apple hardware is actually high quality, it's just that their os will only install on their hardware. apple is basically like a crossbreed between dell & microsoft, and this lets them charge premium prices on their run-of-the-mill hardware because their os won't install on other (less expensive, perhaps higher quality) intel hardware.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[BasilBrush]

There is no reason such an interface couldn't run on winXP, win2k, or even somewhat in NT4, all you really need is the opengl support in the OS & drivers and you can do nifty things with alpha channel.

It's not a matter of technicals, it's a matter of taste and UI design expertise. Microsoft doesn't have any taste, and the Linux community lacks UI design expertise.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft doesn't have any taste, and the Linux community lacks UI design expertise.

Either your ignorance or your bias is showing. I use Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04 daily and Unity is a much more productive environment once you get the hang of it. The well thought out design that Canonical has produced is vastly underrated.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Zero__Kelvin]

"I think that the idea of an OS being able to be "beautiful" is sort or wonky. There is no reason such an interface couldn't run on winXP, win2k, or even somewhat in NT4, ..."

You don't know the difference between a window manager and an OS. You also don't realize that visual appearance is not the sole component of beauty.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

once you get the hang of it

Yeah....

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

once you get the hang of it

Yeah....

You're confirmation bias is causing you to read too much into the statement. Everything has a learning curve even walking over to somebody else's workstation that uses the exact same operating system.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Cinder6]

I'm also not convinced apple hardware is actually high quality, it's just that their os will only install on their hardware. apple is basically like a crossbreed between dell & microsoft, and this lets them charge premium prices on their run-of-the-mill hardware because their os won't install on other (less expensive, perhaps higher quality) intel hardware.

The internal components are the same that other manufacturers use (well, for the most part). The cases themselves, however, are more than just pretty and shiny--they are very well made and durable, with no case flex evident even on the Macbook Air. Anecdote time! My boss got a unibody Macbook Pro which, unlike every other laptop ever, survived his abuse: several times dropping it over 5 feet onto tile floor, while turned on, both open and closed; as well as general carelessness (I hope I never see anyone else prop a laptop up by opening it halfway, flipping it upside down, and resting it as though you're trying to build a house of cards). The thing is dented all over and the screen is cracked, but it still works. The internal HDD connector eventually broke, so now he uses it as some sort of bizarre Frankenstein desktop running OS X through an external hard drive.

The other area Apple excels is in trackpads. Maybe things have changed in the PC laptop world, but for the longest time I would buy nothing else, simply because Apple's trackpads were so much better--both in terms of functionality and in overall feel of running your fingers over the thing. I like it so much I bought the Magic Trackpad for my iMac.

Yes, they're expensive. Yes, you can get more powerful machines. Honestly, though, most people don't need the extra power that faster machines offer. They will all run your OS, web browser, and word processor just fine. They all can access Facebook. They all can do full-disk encryption without a noticeable performance hit. So the question is whether access to OS X, the excellent customer support, and the nice case are worth the extra price.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[lgw]

Either your ignorance or your bias is showing. I use Windows 7 and Ubuntu 12.04 daily and Unity is a much more productive environment once you get the hang of it. The well thought out design that Canonical has produced is vastly underrated.

Is 12.x vastly different from 11.x? I spent enough time in 11.x to learn where things are, and it was a terribly bad user experience for me - too much like Windows in it's horrible default configuration before I switch everything to be sane.

I want to switch between fullscreen apps with a single mouseclick. Mac does that well. Windows does that well (after a beatdown of its defaults). Ubuntu was too busy hiding the taskbar (which belongs across the bottom of the screen, btw, not the side) and combining multiple windows into one icon and still only fitting a few icons on the screen, so I'd often have to scroll.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[oakgrove]

Is 12.x vastly different from 11.x? I spent enough time in 11.x to learn where things are, and it was a terribly bad user experience for me - too much like Windows in it's horrible default configuration before I switch everything to be sane.

12.04 fixed a lot of bugs from 11.10 and added some functionality. You'd have to try it out to see if it addressed your particular concerns.

I want to switch between fullscreen apps with a single mouseclick. Mac does that well. Windows does that well (after a beatdown of its defaults). Ubuntu was too busy hiding the taskbar (which belongs across the bottom of the screen, btw, not the side) and combining multiple windows into one icon and still only fitting a few icons on the screen, so I'd often have to scroll.

There is an option in the settings that turns off auto-hide of the dock. I believe that might be the default now. Unity Rotated is a PPA that when installed moves the dock to the bottom.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[smash]

To give you an update: pc trackpads are still mostly garbage. tried an HP folio 13 MBA wannabe the other day and after 30 minutes there was permanent mark on the trackpad surface from use, and the click was too stiff and non-positive in engagement. Right and left click on different sides of the pad, and like most PC trackpads, prone to mouse cursor skipping unintentionally.

The day a PC maker actually figures out how to make a decent trackpad is the day I'll consider a non-apple notebook, but until then, no way. I still build my own PC desktops though.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm also not convinced apple hardware is actually high quality, it's just that their os will only install on their hardware"

Apple's hardware is made by Quanta, a company which also makes computers for Dell, HP, Gateway (are they still around?), Compaq (back before they were bought out by HP), Toshiba, Lenovo, etc.

That's why I always have to laugh when people claim Apple's harware is "better". It's like saying "hey, my rebranded Quanta computer is WAY better than your rebranded Quanta computer!"

Re:The interface is not the OS

[lgw]

Sound like progress, but can it give me one icon in the taskbar per window, not one icon per class of application, making me click a second time to select the window?

11.x really felt like it was copying Vista (WTF?), style-wise, but I could certainly see a few adjustments helping out a lot there.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[micheas]

... the Linux community lacks UI design expertise.

Let's see, the apple finder was designed by Andy Hertzfeld and Nautilus (the file manager for gnome) was designed by Andy Hertzfeld after he left Apple.

I would think that having designed the Classic Mac UI would count as UI design experience, but what do I know.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[BasilBrush]

So, the best you could come up with is one guy, who stopped working on Nautilus in 11 years ago. And since 2005 has been working for Google on the very much closed source Google+.

I think you demonstrated the paucity of UI talent that Linux has very well.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that the idea of an OS being able to be "beautiful" is sort or wonky.

Then try replacing "beautiful" with "user can get a job done efficiently, without feeling frustrated". That's what UI people mean when they say "beautiful".

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Farmer Tim]

Apple's hardware is made by Quanta, a company which also makes computers for Dell, HP, Gateway (are they still around?), Compaq (back before they were bought out by HP), Toshiba, Lenovo, etc.

Irrelevant. Quanta didn't design any of those machines, they just manufactured them according to specifications. You could design two laptops, use mil-spec components in a waterproof stainless steel case for one, loose tolerance components in a pressfit cardboard shell for the other, and there will be a tangible difference in quality and price even though they can both be made by Quanta on the same assembly line. The manufacturer builds it the way you tell them to...that's how contracted manufacturing works.

It's like saying "hey, my rebranded Quanta computer is WAY better than your rebranded Quanta computer!"

And that's roughly equivalent to saying that because both Apple and Samsung use Foxconn, any design similarities in their products must be Foxconn's doing.

Re:The interface is not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

because their os won't install on other (less expensive, perhaps higher quality) intel hardware

Apple at one point had a nice 3rd party OEM thing going. Much of the 3rd party hardware was much better than Apple (faster spec'd, better memory, larger hds, better video, etc). One of the first things Steve Jobs did when he came back was kick that to the curb. I was quickly out of a job at that point. Working at a 3rd party software maker who depended on that OEM ecosystem existing and not paying a premium for Mac hardware... I had sales guys tell me 'i can not sell this over priced stuff anymore the x86s are kicking our asses'. We had a decent x86 windows port in progress but ran out of money...

Re:The interface is not the OS

[oakgrove]

Sound like progress, but can it give me one icon in the taskbar per window, not one icon per class of application, making me click a second time to select the window?

Sadly, if that is a show stopper you will be disappointed. Personally I like the grouping but I can see how you would like the separate icons. One possible workaround would be to put multiple icons on the dock for any application you're likely to have multiple windows open for but that's obviously not ideal.

So what?

[falcon_dark]

And OS X should be doing what? Competing with XP for market share? To use OS X you must buy and Apple machine! It's obvious it will have small numbers! Right now I'm using XP at work, because the company got this cheap Atom CPUs and have to put something to run it. But at home I got 2 Macbooks with Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. What does it mean? That on those numbers I'm being counted twice... So what kind of credibility should we give to it?

Re:So what?

[Guy Harris]

A computer is just a computer. It doesnt become a apple pc or a windows pc until you load the operating system on it. You can load OS or windows 7 on the exact same pc.

You can load OS X on the PC in question if either either 1) the PC is sold by Apple Inc. ("PC" here meaning just "personal computer", so, in that sense, Apple sells them) or 2) you've made a Hackintosh out of it.

I.e., to use OS X you must by an Apple machine or do some hacks.

WTF? People are buying Vista?

[__aaltlg1547]

Microsoft is not selling Vista any more. Apple is not selling OS X 10.6.

I believe what they are referring to with the words "market share" is what normal people call "installed base."

Re:My heart bleeds

[BasilBrush]

Of course you're not in the mood to be kind. You're a prick.

Re:WTF? People are buying Vista?

[smash]

I think you'll find that some companies are still buying vista. Chevron (for example) rolled out vista and are still using it as their SOE. Any new PC they buy will get an enterprise license of it.

Why market share matters

[Geeky]

Market share is important if you use actual applications - in other words, do real work with your computer. It also matters if you rely on third party hardware. The effort will go in to making sure they work on the dominant platforms, and the smaller ones will be an afterthought. You're more likely to find advice online relating to running the software on the dominant platform and bugs will get fixed for it first.

That's why I use Windows.

Re:Why market share matters

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX market share is still enough that support is there. It also helps that, A. OSX users have money and are willing to spend it, and B. OSX users tend to be a bit fanatical about their computers. Just like a nice car, you may not want to take it down to Jiffylube, but you can still find a garage that will be able to help you.

Re:Why market share matters

[Anonymous Coward]

How much third-party hardware is there for OS X? Are Apple users unhappy with their hardware?

Re:Why market share matters

[Geeky]

Simple example: wifi printers. I know a Mac user who gave up in frustration and uses her wifi enabled printer via USB. Turned out, as far as I could tell, that her router didn't support the Bonjour protocol. On Windows it just worked. Things like that will be tested on Windows because the majority of purchasers use Windows.

Re:Why market share matters

[LDAPMAN]

Turns out you don't know what your talking about. Bonjour is just broadcast traffic so there is nothing to support. Also turns out you can connect to any network printer by entering its IP address.

Re:Why market share matters

[Dynedain]

Sounds more like her router isn't in bridged mode, so wired broadcast traffic isn't being sent out to wifi, essentially isolating the two networks for broadcast protocols.

She'd have the same problem with Windows until the router configuration is changed.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[Frosty Piss]

Slashdot has a deserved reputation for being the territory of Hardcore 20-Something Linux Fanboys, and there's really nothing wrong with that.

But it skews the reception of any story for a system / product / idea that is not in line with the "group think", such stories are typically dismissed as "flamebait".

Such as the recent story about Steve Jobs. The general reaction was that Steve Jobs was nothing more than a "marketer" and Apple products may be only marginally better that competitors - even though many of Apples strongest detractors admit that Apple hardware quality is a cut above many competitors, and certainly Apple has a history of this âoeinnovationâ thingy.

Likewise, you can expect almost âoestream of thoughtâ vitriol and screed ANY time anything to to with Microsoft is mentioned, never mind an objective view of whatever the subject might be. I mean, the sheeple are still using stupid memes like âoeM$â and âoeMicroslothâ and what have you.

If itâ(TM)s a technology controlled by a Bug Company, you can expect the Slashdot Surfs to tow the Group Think with post after mindless post completely lacking with any objectivity, or often any actual coherent thought.

Options

[amoeba1911]

Some businesses will keep using Windows XP because there are always factory floor computers that simply are a pain in the ass to upgrade - for all practical purposes it's impossible to upgrade, and the OS will get updated only when the old hardware gets dumped and they get a new computer... and that might never happen because factory managers are not likely to invest in fixing something that's not broken.

And there are personal users who use their computer entirely for facebook/email - they really don't care if their OS supports the latest industry standard features or not. Expect those to be still using windows xp, and maybe eventually switch to an internet appliance device (like ipad) and get rid of the computer altogether. For a great majority of people out there, an ipad does everything they expect from a computer: browse facebook, write email, play farmville. Remember it was only 20 years ago that computers still were not a household item, computers were for geeks. The computer became mainstream only because it started appealing to the dumb masses, it's not because all of a sudden there's a surge in computer geek population. It will eventually go back to what it was - computers one day will return to being a geeky thing, and general population will move to using locked-down internet appliances instead of general purpose computing devices.

As for me, I would rather use a decade old general purpose computer rather than an iPad. I would rather use Linux than OS X. I used computers before they were cool, and I will use computers after they stop being cool. I am the minority, I am a geek. Internet used to be a place where we could find like-minded people, but now it's eternal September.

Re:Options

[Anonymous Coward]

now it's eternal September.

Heh, in more ways than one. It's been like 'groundhog day' for 11 years now.

the problem is

[ILongForDarkness]

Apple likely made more on OS X than Vista (say 10.4->10.6 or so being the era in question) since people that wanted OS X had to buy hardware from Apple too which they make buckets of money on. Different business model entirely is it shocking that a mid to high end hardware manufacturer sells fewer units than the company that gets their software pre-bundled with everything from low end to top end systems?

Apple has a good model for a hardware company they get profit margin based on exclusivity, MS gets it because of the huge markups of software industry in general. Dell, HP and the like: "we'll make oddles of money buy selling 10's of B of stuff at 5-10% margins" yeah that sounds like a winner.

hmm

[buddyglass]

Looking at a) global numbers and b) combined consumer/corporate is pretty much the worst possible scenario for Apple. If you limit the "market" being examined to "U.S. consumers" then supposedly Apple has around 21-22% share.

Nice

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> OS X and Windows Vista divide the rest of the spoils, with all versions
> of OSX only just adding up to a little more than the failed Windows version

It didn't help that OEMs (e.g. Toshiba) were selling Vista machines that, when you opened the box, there was a little sticker warning you that 512 MB they were happy to let you buy it with was not recommended as a configuration.

Basically, it wasn't enough to run without using virtual memory, so it took 10 minutes of constant HD chugging before it became vaguely usable.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[RazorSharp]

Slashdot has a deserved reputation for being the territory of Hardcore 20-Something Linux Fanboys

Dude, you're so behind the times. Try 30-something.

sheeple are still using stupid memes

Like 'sheeple.' Good going, Nietzsche.

No Captain Sarcasm, OpenGL is key

[SuperKendall]

Sure. After all OSX is Unix. And Linux is a copy of Unix.

Ha Ha.

The key is that both OS X and Linux use OpenGL for graphics, which is why they'd reuse a lot of code from the Mac.

Re:No Captain Sarcasm, OpenGL is key

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows supports OpenGL as well AFAIR.

Re:No Captain Sarcasm, OpenGL is key

[oakgrove]

But a significant fraction of the games use direct3d so the de facto split is windows/direct3d and Linux/Mac/OpenGL.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever you say, Mr. Seven Digit ID... If you're over 30, I'm a cat who can type. The most surprising thing about your post is that you didn't post under AC.

Apple is a luxury good.

[Anonymous Coward]

The ipad is not overpriced. the fact that they are killing the competitors in their market segments would indicate that to most people, the price is competitive for what you get.

No, that's an incorrect market analysis. If price were the most important thing, Lenovo and Dell would be the market leaders. Most Apple buyers aren't concerned with price. Those who base their purchases on price buy other brands - even tablets. Consider the huge popularity of the Kindle Fire or the Nexus 7. If Apple comes out with a tablet to compete with the Fire and the Nexus 7, I think they'll get their asses handed to them. And if Amazon comes out with a 10" Fire or Google a 10" Nexus, they'll hurt Apple real bad.

Apple's market share right now is just from first adopters and folks who want the latest toys.

As far as laptops and PCs are concerned, you can always do better with a non-Apple product in terms of price.

Apple is really a luxury brand: many folks buy Apple products to have the Apple logo. I'm surprised that Apple hasn't gone the Harley-Davidson route and sell logo'd apparel. A large chunk of Harley's profits are from apparel and licensing the name.

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[smash]

Most apple buyers are the vast majority of the tablet and ultrabook market it would appear. People iPads because they work, are supported for about 3 years, and because of the apps. People buy MBAs because the trackpad words, the battery life is good, and they are small. In terms of comparison products on the market with equal spec, both of those products are price competitive. Or they would not be selling in the numbers they are. Apple fans or not. Most of the i-Device and MBA users I know were not apple customers prior to those devices.

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[jedidiah]

> If price were the most important thing, Lenovo and Dell would be the market leaders.

In what strange alternate reality are they not?

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[jedidiah]

In other words you have to engage in blatant bogus propaganda and redefine things in order for reality to fit your rhetoric.

The "Ultrabook market" is an entirely self invented construct. It is a small subset of the overall PC and laptop market. Apple has first mover lead in tablets but it remains to be seen whether that will hold. They've already lost their lead in compatible phones and have to compete through litigation rather than their product.

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[amiga3D]

The iPad 3 was bought up by a huge amount of ipad1 and iPad2 owners. I've kept a Mac computer since 2003 when I started doing video editing. I keep upgrading because they work flawlessly. For generally computing I use linux because I can make it do anything I want, it's fully open and I have total control. I don't use windows on my private machines because I use it at work. The only way I'd consent to suffer through that would be if I got paid to. For my linux hardware I like Dell's business class computers. Once you wipe the malware off of them and install a nice linux disto they are fabulous. I picked up a used D630 and it's fast and stable with Mepis on it. It had vista and the guy sold it to me for $100 because it had given him trouble continuously after an "upgrade." I think most people are like me, they use what they like and can afford. I can't afford both a mini with a Quad i7 cpu and a macbook pro so I bough the mini and a D630 which I fixed by upgrading the OS. People buy iPads cause they like them. If they liked the Kindle Fire better they'd buy it. I'd take a Galaxy tab 10 over an iPad as long as it was cheaper.

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[amiga3D]

Everyone said nobody would buy a tablet. Suddenly everyone was making one. Nobody really sells them except apple and amazon. Amazon makes no money on theirs but Apple makes bunches of money on their iPads. It's hard to compete with the Kindle for everyone else because Amazon just needs something to lock people into their book and media market so makes money without selling their tablet at a profit. Can't wait to see what happens when the 7" iPad arrives. I think Apple and Amazon may end up being the only two real players in this market when the dust settles. Both make money their own way.

Re:Apple is a luxury good.

[FyRE666]

"If price were the most important thing, Lenovo and Dell would be the market leaders."

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0

Yeah it looks like the PC builders must really be hurting at the moment.

When 50% of all Windows PCs?

[modicr]

Current share of Win7 among Windows PCs is 46.60%
I wonder if it will ever be more than 50% ?
For example, in March 2012, Windows XP was installed
on 50.66% of all Windows computers ...

Re:When 50% of all Windows PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Win8 will eat very rapidly the Win7 market share. I've used it since two weeks in a VM and I liked a lot, everything I've read was negative but in the end is fantastic,you have to get used to the new way of interaction but after you start used to the windows key you forget the start button, want to launch word?, press windows key write "wo" and press enter, no more mouse interaction to launch applications!, the Non Metro UI is marvelous as an application launcher, you can do something similar with Win7 but it is simply horrible. Ok, Office 2013 and other applications are not touch ready

Re:When 50% of all Windows PCs?

[smash]

Win8 will not fly in the enterprise. we've just passed the 50% mark on our 7 rollout and have no plans for 8.

Mojo of what: a DISTANT "2nd place" @ best??

[Anonymous Coward]

#1: I don't see MacOS X overtaking Windows on the desktop, do you?

#2: I don't see MacOS X overtaking Windows on the server, do you??

* So much for THAT "mojo" juvenile b.s. attempt @ "p.r." work that has NO foundation behind it in terms of marketshare/user mindshare on PC's &/or Servers, combined...

APK

P.S.=> At least Linux gives Windows SOMEWHAT of a "run for its money" on Servers (about a 50/50 split worldwide between them) & the ONLY reason Linux manages that, is "zero cost" (up front, but THEN you get into support costs for it)...

... apk

Thunderbolt not at all useless

[SuperKendall]

Thunderbolt (good idea, but currently fairly useless)

If she is doing video work she needs this:

Seagate GoFlex Desk Thunderbolt Adapter

Docks any SATA drive, gives you Thunderbolt speed in accessing the disk.

We should see even more Thunderbolt storage stuff shortly.

Being able to quickly swap out drives should be really useful for video work.

Re:Thunderbolt not at all useless

[Smallpond]

Why do so many product ads tell you everything except what the product does?

Re:Thunderbolt not at all useless

[flatrock]

You can get a USB 3.0 dock or eSATA cable that will give you the same access speeds for about 15% of the cost unless you are connecting a lot of disks in a RAID. Thunderbolt isn't useless, but since there are very few devices that rally utilize it, and those that do are needed by few people, I'd say that "currently fairly useless" describes it pretty well for the vast majority of users.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[fustakrakich]

âoeinnovationâ... âoestream of thoughtâ... âoeM$â and âoeMicroslothâ...itâ(TM)s...

What's all this shit about "actual coherent thought"? That was atrocious.

Not surprised at this.

[MtViewGuy]

Given that Windows 7 running on any machine that support x86-64 instructions very well, no wonder why it's been widely adopted.

I myself really like Windows 7: surprisingly fast boot, very stable, and the implementation of the "Aero Glass" look and feel is far better than what was done in Windows Vista. It's probably the best version of Windows (client version) since Windows 2000 Professional.

In the 3-5" Wi-Fi tablet market

[tepples]

Which Android device corresponds to the iPod touch again? If none, then yes, Apple is moving that many iDevices.

Re:In the 3-5" Wi-Fi tablet market

[oakgrove]

Which Android device corresponds to the iPod touch again? If none, then yes, Apple is moving that many iDevices.

So, let me see if I'm following your logic here. You're saying if there is no Android device that correspands to the iPod Touch (for the sake of argument, there is) then that mere fact alone means Apple is moving more iDevices than Android devices. Really? Really??

Re:In the 3-5" Wi-Fi tablet market

[tepples]

You're saying if there is no Android device that correspands to the iPod Touch (for the sake of argument, there is [the Galaxy Player]) then that mere fact alone means Apple is moving more iDevices than Android devices.

What it means is that Apple has moved far more devices in the pocket-size tablet segment of the market than Android device makers have. How well have the 4- and 5-inch Galaxy Player been selling compared to the iPod touch since the Galaxy Player's October 2011 release, let alone iPT units sold between the July 2008 introduction of the App Store and then? I'll guess Samsung hasn't come near matching Apple, but feel free to present reliable sales figures to the contrary. Besides, it's Samsung, and Apple has been aggressively pursuing bans of Samsung products on patent infringement grounds.

Re:In the 3-5" Wi-Fi tablet market

[oakgrove]

What it means is that Apple has moved far more devices in the pocket-size tablet segment of the market than Android device makers have.

That doesn't mean that the total number of iOS device sales exceeds Android though. And I'd be very surprised if iPads, iPhones, and iPod Touches total daily sales exceeds Android device daily sales right now.

How well have the 4- and 5-inch Galaxy Player been selling compared to the iPod touch since the Galaxy Player's October 2011 release, let alone iPT units sold between the July 2008 introduction of the App Store and then? I'll guess Samsung hasn't come near matching Apple

Of course the iPod Touch outsells the Galaxy Player. Again, though, that doesn't mean that iOS devices outsell Android devices as a whole. Remember that 1 million Android phones and tablets sell every single day. My question is how many iOS devices sell in the same amount of time.

I would be willing to accept that in the history of iOS, more of those devices have sold but I do not think the sales velocity right now is in Apple's favor.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot's post box does not recognize Unicode. Like the rest of Slashdot, it too is living in the past.

to bad the hardware is very limited

[Joe_Dragon]

to bad the hardware is very limited.

And the desktops use higher cost laptops parts with small cases to look hip at the cost of more power / lower price and better cooling.

or an over priced tower with 2010 video cards at 2010 prices.

no real sever hardware.

laptops with sealed in battery.

hdd's in the imacs that have Temperature Sensor and or Firmware that makes non apple ones jack the fans to the max all the time. And drive cost alot like $150 to go from 1tb to 2tb when you can buy a 2tb for under $150.

OS X is for the elite few...

[Anonymous Coward]

not the common masses. the average gamer douche c# assclown doesn't know what to do with a unix workstation.

Once M$ stops patching XP

[tepples]

"better" is defined as boots faster or somehow magically makes the game better

Or just continues to run at all. If a game has online multiplayer or phone-home digital restrictions management, you will need to connect to the Internet to run it. After April 2014, when Microsoft stops publishing patches to correct security defects in Windows XP, expect computer criminals to discover a way to 0wn all XP boxes on the net.

Re:Once M$ stops patching XP

[amorsen]

After April 2014, when Microsoft stops publishing patches to correct security defects in Windows XP, expect computer criminals to discover a way to 0wn all XP boxes on the net.

I highly doubt that. Perhaps all XP boxes connected without a hardware firewall in front, but by 2014 we will be out of IPv4-addresses, so almost everyone will be behind some kind of gateway which will cause trouble for incoming connections. Not much security, but probably enough to keep a passive XP box from being compromised.

Browsing on XP will likely be fraught with dangers, but for a game machine that is not much of a concern. Outside of exploits in the games themselves (they strangely haven't been much of a target yet), running XP for games should be just fine.

Linux still the best OS

[Murdoch5]

Thats great Windows 7 is the new "king" but to be honest market share doesn't correlate to quality. Users want simple, if you don't make it simple you'll never attract the user base. Windows 7 is simple, you could have an IQ of 90 and figure out it, OSX is next but still a little more complicated. In either case both OSX and Windwos 7 require you to pick up a mouse and your off and running.

Linux however requires you to actually understand OS design and OS theory and when you understand both you develop a much deeper understanding of why Linux is and always will be the hidden OS king. It doesn't have the desktop market share but it doesn't need to, it holds it's own and doesn't have to try and announce itself with bells, commericals and ad's. Linux knows it's place, just as it's users and you'll be hard pressed to find a Linux user who doesn't agree.

Not many but yes

[Sycraft-fu]

Battlefield 3 would be a major one. It requires Vista or 7 as it is DirectX 10 and above only, it has no DX9 support.

This is likely to accelerate as time goes on. There are serious design advantages to the DX10+ rendering model, and it is a pain to both implement it and then an old DX9 model. As more people have Windows 7 or newer systems, it is more profitable to have games require it.

Re:Not many but yes

[Slime-dogg]

Civ 5 is another one that requires DX 10+. It's also definitely worth playing.

Re:Not many but yes

[Slime-dogg]

Scratch that. It'll run in castrated mode in DX 9, I guess.

they need a $1000-$1500 desktop non AIO

[Joe_Dragon]

they need a $1000-$1500 desktop non AIO

with desktop parts a min-range or better video card and maybe at least 1 pci-e 1 x4 slot and room for at least 2 sata HDD's and maybe room for a DVD or blu ray drive.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[fustakrakich]

That's why god gave us the Preview button!

and today's download caps / throttling / roaming

[Joe_Dragon]

and today's download caps / throttling / high cost roaming will also kill moving stuff to online only like that.

... beautiful OS.

[future assassin]

I've only used OS X during the current year but I have to say it is beautiful OS.

Just because you wasted your money you expect people to spend a premium on beautiful OS?

+1

[csumpi]

I couldn't agree more. I just installed Mountain Lion, which is a freaking insult to users. From the never stopping notifications, to the useless animations (some of it can't even be turned off, like switching workspaces, which gives me motion sickness), to useless mission control, to the one menu bar for all apps, to natural mouse scrolling, the list is endless.

Not only that, but now by default (I know it can be changed), it doesn't allow programs (called apps now) to be installed unless it comes from the app store. And icloud everywhere. No, I'm not going to pay A$$le to store my files, I can do it on my own server. If M$ did anything like this, there would be class action suits left and right.

Recently there's been lots of discussion around here how osx killed linux desktop and how everyone is switching to osx from linux. Well, if you do that, you are a moron. My xmonad desktop is more flexible and useful than osx. And how hooking up the credit card to Cupertino headquarters works for the FOSS people, is beyond me.

In fact 10.8 is so bad, I think M$ has a great chance with win8 metro or whatever they call it now. Still, win7 looks and works much better than this latest steaming pile from A$$le.

Now bring on those downvotes.

Re:+1

[rbrausse]

A$$le

this is too hard to parse (Assle? whut?), though you could use something like App£€

Re:+1

[ToastedRhino]

(I know I'm rude in this post, but this stuff just gets incredibly frustrating and ridiculous.)

Alright, another uninformed user (note that I'm being nice and assuming that you're not a troll.)

Most important point first, then I'll deal with the rest of your (apparently) uninformed complaints. You can "by default" download and run any apps you want provided that they are "signed" apps. You can have qualms with this fact all you want, but this is not the same as saying you can only run apps from the Mac App Store. Not even almost. Basically every Mac developer has, at this point, begun singing their apps using the Apple Developer Program. Install any and all of these apps that you'd like and "by default" you will have no problems. (To clarify, the preference for this gives 3 options: Allow applications downloaded from: a) Mac App Store, b) Mac App Store and identified developers, and c) Anywhere. "b" is the default. It's a single toggle to change it to "c".) Complain about the reality of "b" if you disagree with it, don't spread FUD.

Notifications are completely configurable. Go to System Preferences-->Notifications (Oh, I see, they hid it?). Turn on/off whatever you want. Too difficult? Want it all turned off without going to System Preferences? Open the notification center, scroll UP and toggle "Show banners and alerts" to Off. Not exactly a difficult procedure. I actually find Notifications to be incredibly useful, and I think many agree. (And it's not like they don't exist on Windows. Ever gotten an email in Outlook? That box that pops up is a notification.)

Natural scrolling is definitely different, but by no means inherently worse. Just because it's not what you're used to doesn't make it bad. Give it a try for a week and if you still hate it you can, well, turn it off. No harm, no foul.

And you're angry about the "one menu bar for all apps" after installing Mountain Lion? This is a fundamental part of OS X. In fact, it's been a fundamental part of Mac OS since forever ago. How did this just begin to annoy you? Oh, right. It didn't. You either don't use Macs or didn't "just install Mountain Lion," because Lion, Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, etc. all had the exact same behavior with regards to menu bars. You're being ridiculous.

The Spaces (i.e., switching workspaces) animations are, indeed, useless for power users. I'd argue that the animation is helpful for novices/non-power users, but this is a legitimate complaint (albeit seemingly your only one.) Almost any other animation in OS X Mountain Lion either can be turned off, or doesn't actually slow things down (that is, you can perform actions during the animation and the OS will capture and apply them when the animation is done.) And I know you aren't the one that said this, but in Mountain Lion the rearranging of Spaces by most recently used is a simple checkbox. Turn it on or off as you'd like. Again, no harm, no foul.

Launchpad is indeed useless. Drag it out of the Dock and don't use the keyboard/mouse shortcuts for it. It's by no means being forced upon you. Calm yourself down. And Mission Control is probably one of the most useful features ever introduced. Microsoft (who you're obviously partial to) tried to ape Expose (the predecessor to Mission Control) starting with Vista, so they obviously felt it had some use. Mission Control is infinitely better than Expose was (and Expose was always better then the funky 3D window scrolling version Microsoft implemented.) What is it exactly about having a keyboard/mouse shortcut that gives you a graphical overview of every window you have open organized by application that angers you so? I'm truly confused by this. Also, again, the OS is completely usable without this feature. It's not forced upon you.

I also don't like saving things to iCloud. This is easy to avoid for power users. For novices, it's likely a feature.

I've spent way too much time responding to this ridiculousness, but, again, am incredibly frustrated by the number of people who make unfounded comments against Apple. It makes it really difficult to have an honest conversation about the pros and cons of various approaches, which is, really, what we should be striving to do.

Re:+1

[csumpi]

We are having an honest conversation about pros and cons about various approaches. From my point of view, what apple did with 10.8, is an insult to users.

A little background: I had a working 10.6 setup, where I already spent a lot of time customizing to get the eye candy for novice users disabled, shortcuts setup etc. Then I upgrade to 10.8, and have to spend another day figuring out how to turn eye candy for novice users off. And then there is icloud and twitter everywhere, none of which I want.

But with icloud I have a bigger issue: it's a feature integrated into the os, that if I start using, eventually would have to start paying money for. That's not cool.

I could not turn the notification panel off, even after clicking all those check boxes you mentioned. Accidentally the notification panel opened now and then, taking a quarter of the screen, so eventually I just deleted the notification manager app.

I had to upgrade one of my purchased applications, that's when I got the message about only app store and signed applications allowed box. Maybe the developer didn't want to pay for apple's blessing. Maybe he didn't have the money. But wait, there's another feature that requires paying more to apple.

My mouse is not an apple mouse, so in the mouse settings there was no checkbox to turn off unnatural scrolling. So I had to dig in the terminal trough defaults to disable it. But I guess I could've gone to the apple store to buy an approved mouse, just to turn this ridiculousness off.

I forgot another good one: the library folder in my home directory was hidden. Seriously, wtf?

While you say that none of this is forced on me, they were not there two days ago. Like I had no launchpad or mission control or whatever icons on my dock. I had no icloud menu options. I had no app store buttons. Now I have to take time to get rid of them (well whatever I can that is). So it seems, that they are forced on me.

And yes, I do know that the single menu bar has been in osx for ever. It's been a failure, and it still is. Just like the single button mouse.

Re:+1

[smash]

Launchpad is actually useful if you get used to it. I can launch applications from within a full-screen app with a simple 4 finger pinch. No need to swipe to get to my dock or a finder window to browse my application folder, or mouse up to get to spotlight.

Re:+1

[bungo]

it doesn't allow programs (called apps now) to be installed unless it comes from the app store

Sorry, I don't understand that.

I have a MBP Retina with Mountain Lion, and I just installed VMWare Fusion 5, and it installed in the usual way, just like the earlier versions of OSX.

Also, I downloaded it directly from VMWare. I didn't need to go through any app store.

Are you talking about something else, other than normal programs?

Re:+1

[csumpi]

By default 10.8 only allows you to install programs either from the app store or if they are signed by a certificate from apple. You can change this setting in security, to allow anything to be installed. So you either changed that setting, or vmware had a signed installer. The program I was trying to install, was not signed.

Re:+1

[Anonymous Coward]

A little background: I had a working 10.6 setup, where I already spent a lot of time customizing to get the eye candy for novice users disabled, shortcuts setup etc. Then I upgrade to 10.8, and have to spend another day figuring out how to turn eye candy for novice users off. And then there is icloud and twitter everywhere, none of which I want.

But with icloud I have a bigger issue: it's a feature integrated into the os, that if I start using, eventually would have to start paying money for. That's not cool.

I would like to suggest that you are being deliberately stupid. If you do not want to ever run the risk of paying for iCloud, there are two trivial methods for avoiding it. The first is to never set it up at all. Just skip past the iCloud setup questions and the OS will function just fine without your user account being linked to an iCloud account. The second is to just uncheck all the boxes in the iCloud preferences pane so the system never tries to put any data on iCloud.

Furthermore, you would not ever "have to start paying money" unless you used more than 5GB of cloud storage. By the time you've gotten to 5GB, I think it's safe to say that you probably find it pretty useful and ought not to have serious objections to paying a subscription fee. Cloud services aren't free to provide and the fact that Apple provides 5GB worth without any fee at all is pretty nice! And if you want to keep using it for free, you can.... wait for it.... just delete some shit and get back below 5GB. Oh My God that's so hard.

I could not turn the notification panel off, even after clicking all those check boxes you mentioned. Accidentally the notification panel opened now and then, taking a quarter of the screen, so eventually I just deleted the notification manager app.

If the notification panel is opening by accident it's probably because you have the gesture for opening it turned on. Go into the trackpad prefs and turn that gesture off. Done.

I had to upgrade one of my purchased applications, that's when I got the message about only app store and signed applications allowed box. Maybe the developer didn't want to pay for apple's blessing. Maybe he didn't have the money. But wait, there's another feature that requires paying more to apple.

This is yet another trivial thing to disable. System Preferences, Security, allow apps from any source. Done. No money flows to Apple.

Or, if you don't want to reduce systemwide security, just follow this procedure: right click (or control click) the app, select "Open", and now the "only signed apps" dialog will have an option to open the app anyways. Click that button and the app opens. You only have to launch the app this way once, the system will remember that you chose to bypass signing checks for it. Done. No money flows to Apple.

My mouse is not an apple mouse, so in the mouse settings there was no checkbox to turn off unnatural scrolling.

When I use a mouse with my MacBook, it's a Microsoft bluetooth mouse, and I'm pretty sure the checkbox was there. Can't check right now though.

I forgot another good one: the library folder in my home directory was hidden. Seriously, wtf?

I would be willing to bet this is because they found too many users were confused by it and/or were screwing up their user accounts by messing around inside. It's kinda trivial to unhide, so seriously, wtf? at whining about it.

While you say that none of this is forced on me, they were not there two days ago. Like I had no launchpad or mission control or whatever icons on my dock. I had no icloud menu options. I had no app store buttons. Now I have to take time to get rid of them (well whatever I can that is). So it seems, that they are forced on me.

You're making mountains out of molehills. Everything you've complained about takes trivial effort

Apple has NO sense of honor or decency

[Anonymous Coward]

In telling folks "MacOS X can't get infected" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdF5IsyOxU4 etc./et al

(Then, Apple even CHANGED their initial statements on their website in THAT regards, amending it to "PC viruses" from "viruses")...

* What a truckload of horsecrap that turned out to be, eh?

I.E./E.G.-> Once MacOS X got more of a "marketshare"? It's been as I have been stating here on /., for ages:

"The greater the marketshare an OS has, the more likely it will be attacked... and the more attacks on it there will be"

(Lo & Behold: This too has come to pass...)

Now, you'll get the "spinmasters" here saying "but a virus is not a trojan is not a malware is not a botnet" etc./et al - that's just WORD-PLAY, children... since NONE OF THOSE are any DAMNED GOOD!

APK

P.S.=> That's what you get with dishonorable scumbags @ the helm of ANY corporation... apk

What a SATA dock does?

[SuperKendall]

Are you seriously confused as to what a SATA dock is?

If so you do not need one.

The person who is doing a lot of DV sure as hell knows what a SATA dock is...

Basically it's a hard drive dock, where you can take bare SATA hard drives and quickly plug them in to use them without an enclosure. When you are swapping between a few different hard drives it saves a ton of time and money and space over using multiple enclosures.

Lastly, may I remind you that Google exists?

Re:What a SATA dock does?

[Smallpond]

Except the linked ad never says it is a SATA dock. Thanks for making my point.

Re:What a SATA dock does?

[SuperKendall]

Except the linked ad never says it is a SATA dock.

That's because people who know what a SATA dock are know it s one, and would find it easily (as I did when I was looking for a thunderbolt SATA dock).

Thanks for making my point.

Oddly, I thought the fact you didn't know what a SATA dock is was my point.

Vista will continue to dominate over Windows 8

[BenJeremy]

I predict Vista will be on more Desktop and Laptop systems than Windows 8 by October 2014, and Windows 8 will never overtake Windows 7.

The caveat here, of course, is that Microsoft will inevitably include Tablet and Phone "RT Version" Windows 8 installs in their ultimate numbers, which would articficially drive the numbers up beyond XP, Win7 and Vista combined by then (even with lackluster mobile sales, since mobile device sales dwarf the desktop/laptop market).

Failed OSX version

[Anonymous Coward]

Now tha OP refers to Vista as a "failed Windows version".

If OSX can't even beat a "failed" version of Windows, what does that make them?

Re:Failed OSX version

[EGSonikku]

Let me reword to show how stupid your summary is:

If Lamborgini can't even beat a "failed" version of a Honda Civic, what does that make them?

Oh, and the answer is: the richest company on the planet, worth more than Google and Microsft combined. So I think they're OK.

You forgot Linux in the summary

[EGSonikku]

If OS X is "struggling" to beat Vista, then Linux must have been curb stomped by Vista.

I'm guessing that's why it's not mentioned in the summary. Subby just wanted to Apple bash. Apple isn't interested in outselling Windows any more than Ferrari concerns itself with Honda sales. Apple is worth more cash than Microsoft and Google combined. But keep telling yourself Apple is "struggling". Oh, and if you decide to fudge the numbers to include Android devices because "they run Linux" then don't forget to add iPhones, iPod Touches, and iPads to the Mac OS X column, because iOS is Mac OS X as far as the kernel and system libraries go. But then you'd find yourself in an insurmountably deep hole.

To bad OS X

[Ice Station Zebra]

At least in this household 5 Linux installs and 1 aging OS X install (when it dies Apple is no more in this household). Oh, 1 Windows XP and Windows 7, but rarely booted only for netflix and software testing needs.

Desktop marketshare...?

[mr_lizard13]

Do desktop operating system marketshare comparisons even matter now? It's a declining market. The bigger shareholder is hardly in a position to set trends in the industry.

It's like trying to work out who sells more portable CD players. Move on.

The only thing worth figuring out now is which tablet player has the right strategy: Apple with their seperate-from-a-laptop-and-purposefully-limited-to-make-it-easier device or Microsoft with their no-compromises-it's-a-tablet-and-a-laptop-in-one device.

Re:Desktop marketshare...?

[Guy Harris]

The only thing worth figuring out now is which tablet player has the right strategy: Apple with their seperate-from-a-laptop-and-purposefully-limited-to-make-it-easier device or Microsoft with their no-compromises-it's-a-tablet-and-a-laptop-in-one device.

With Windows 8 for x86 and Windows RT for ARM, is Microsoft trying both strategies?

Re:Desktop marketshare...?

[mr_lizard13]

In a sense, although Windows 8 RT still has a desktop app and still runs the new Metro-and-classic enabled Office, so I'd argue that even the ARM-flavoured tablets are attempting to be all things to all people.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[jedidiah]

How long has Slashdot been around.

What do you think the media age of the user community was then?

It seems that Apple users are also bad at math.

Re:WTF? People are buying Vista?

[__aaltlg1547]

I think you'll find that some companies are still buying vista. Chevron (for example) rolled out vista and are still using it as their SOE. Any new PC they buy will get an enterprise license of it.

Impossible. Chevron is making money.

As an OS X user, let me say ...

[517714]

I am embarrassed that (what I can only assume are) Apple fanbois come up with such outlandish comparisons.

They're not even close to beating Vista. Vista is ONE VERSION of Windows, so the valid comparison is against ONE VERSION of OS X - that would be OS X 10.7 @ 2.29% vs Vista @ 6.15%. Of course the more telling comparison would be the newest OS versions which would be OSX 10.8 @ 1.34% vs Windows 7 @ 38.54%. or all versions of the two about 6% vs 82.47%. Now in the mobile market, Apple's iOS is kicking butt. And that impacts the future of OS X in a very negative way.

Pinky takes over the world

[yester64]

Not sure why everyone is so ecstatic over the mirco precentage points one OS has over another. Its irrelevant. I don't care even about the fruitcake at all.

Real market value versus...

[Anonymous Coward]

made up value?

I have to wonder how Apple can be more valuable than Microsoft when it has such an insignificant share of the desktop market. Sure, I can play SOME games on a mac, and I can run SOME office software on a mac...and I can run linux on a mac, but then, at that point, doesn't that defeat the purpose of even HAVING a mac?

Sure, a smartphone can be useful in a business setting. But a tablet? Mmmmm...that's dubious at best. I think I'll wait until the MS tablet comes out before I invest in one. And how long has it been since the desktop mac was a serious competitor in the business world?

Mod me down if you must. We all know you're doing it because you can't handle reality.

Re:WTF? People are buying Vista?

[Slime-dogg]

"Market Share" can mean one of many things, including installed base.

MacOS

[ThePeices]

If Apple genuinely wanted mass market adoption of MacOS, they could easily do it, and it would become a serious contender for Windows.

All they have to do is release an affordable yet powerful computer, which is easy to do, but the margins are poor.

But they never will. It goes against their high end image. The words Apple and Poor are never allowed to belong in the same sentence.

Alls the pity.

the news

[pbjones]

the only news here is that Win7 now has greater marketshare than XP, the rest of the stats are no brainers because,
1/ Vista flopped as an OS, and
2/ OSX doesn't run on 'PCs' (yes, I know that you can hack a PC so that it can)

Re:My heart bleeds

[SpaghettiPattern]

Of course you're not in the mood to be kind. You're a prick.

I'm awfully sorry. I didn't know you were either an Apple fanboy or unaware of Steve's bastard idiosyncrasies or both. I should have posted anonymously so you could have continued your simple yet secure life because my existence as AC would have passed you by and I wouldn't have hurt your feelings.

Yawn.

Re:My heart bleeds

[BasilBrush]

You're still a prick. Take a good long look in a mirror. And try growing up.

Re:My heart bleeds

[SpaghettiPattern]

You're still a prick. Take a good long look in a mirror. And try growing up.

Lear to read. I never denied anything.

And I can grow up when I'm dead.

Re:My heart bleeds

[Anonymous Coward]

You're still a prick. Take a good long look in a mirror. And try growing up.

But if he were a prick wouldn't a long look in Playboy make him grow up?

Re:Trolls here do it, admins ALLOW it... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor old APK if you didn't carry on like such a fucking dick you might not get downmodded so much. If you did log in your karma would be crap in about 5 minutes. Troll complains about trolls, LMAO.

Re:WTF? People are buying Vista?

[smash]

They're an oil company. They're still making money despite disallowing people to work more than 45 minutes at a time (compulsory PC breaks, you get locked out), monitors that report behaviour such as typing too fast to management, etc.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[slack_justyb]

As a 30-something Linux Fanboy, I am appalled at your sterotyping! Facts are: Microsoft is the technology mafia, Steve Jobs ate children, Linus' tears cure cancer, and Richard Stallman created the universe. I don't understand why you all still get it wrong?! Geez! You are just going to have to admit you are a shamless fanboi! (note difference between the i and y, the y is perfectly acceptable, the i are the ones that need to be put down.)

Grins!

Not sure why schools use Apple

[jimmyfrank]

Because when they get out into the real world they won't see any, unless they're in design or something.

Re:WTF? People are buying Vista?

[toddestan]

My guess is that they buy Windows 7 and then use the downgrade rights to install Vista, just like you would do for XP.

hi, welcome to slashdot!

[decora]

i see you havent read the site since, oh, around 1998, when people posted the same exact comment you just posted, and have been posting ever since.

now you could say things have changed since CmdrTaco left (funnily, none of the people in these threads seem to even know or care who he is) but even when he was here it was like this.

im sure the New Yorker has bags of letters just like this, people screaming about the 'rabble' the magazine is allowing into its pages.

Of course Win7 is becoming dominant

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Win7 overtaking XP because it is better? NO, it is because one cannot buy a new PC except with Win7. I still use the Classic Windows GUI, not the XP GUI, because it is still the most user friendly.

Re:Flamebait - Sure, whatever...

[Gilmoure]

Man.

I'm 45. I'm not old.

You could call me Dennis.

No troll - I won't ALLOW your downmod... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's the dick here? Myself, merely posting, or YOU ac troll, giving me guff??

---

QUESTION:

How many times did I just UTTERLY TRASH YOU, that your "geek angst" is up @ being annihilated on technical matters by myself, that you keep doing your rather INSANE "stalking" of myself & my posts here on /.???

---

(There's no other reason I can even BEGIN to *think* of that would cause such a psycho-like stalking of myself, by you, to *try* to "harass" me, & by anonymous coward posts too, no less... it's quite obvious!)

* Yes - I think THAT about "sums it up" as to WHY you continue your idiotic campaign vs. myself...

Especially considering you've downmodded my original post which was in UTTER agreement with others here, on how the abused moderation system on /. REALLY works here -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3090857&cid=41215021

Of course, you also downmoderated the ORIGINAL OF THIS POST TOO, albeit DAYS later, here -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3090857&cid=41223803

(Why don't you answer that question above too? Oh, anyone with 1/2 a brain KNOWS why... & I am correct on it! Your reaction in effete downmods only prove my point all the more... thank you!)

APK

P.S.=> Some people have issues, & you're obviiously one of those people - again: Get over your "geek angst", & grow up please...

... apk

Numbers look way wrong

[HighPerformanceCoder]

They seem to be way overestimating the Windows numbers, and underestimating the Mac numbers

For many years, I've seen Windows share (as measured on various websites I own) hover around 70%, with MacOS climbing to around 20%. Linux has been stable in the range 5-10% - the remaining 1-2% is usually classified as "unknown".

My website data may be atypical, but it can't be _that_ atypical.