Slashdot Mirror
Would You Put a Tracking Device On Your Child?
Hugh Pickens writes "In 2007 businessman Russell Thornton lost his 3-year-old son at an amusement park. After a frantic 45-minute search, Thornton found the boy hiding in a play structure, but he was traumatized by the incident. It spurred him to build a device that would help other parents avoid that fate. Even though most statistics show that rates of violent crime against children have declined significantly over the last few decades, and that abductions are extremely rare, KJ Dell'Antonia writes that with the array of new gadgetry like Amber Alert and the Securus eZoom our children need never experience the fears that come with momentary separations, or the satisfaction of weathering them. 'You could argue that those of us who survived our childhoods of being occasionally lost, then found, are in the position of those who think car seats are overkill because they suffered no injury while bouncing around in the back of their uncle's pickup,' writes Dell'Antonia. 'Wouldn't a more powerful sense of security come from knowing your children were capable, and trusting in their ability to reach out for help at the moment when they realize they're not?'"
Phhhh...Knock-offs.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
You mean like, I don't know, a phone?
Just buy them an iPhone, with Locate on, long distance off, and Find My Phone on.
And a case with a strap that connects it to their belt.
Problem solved.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I have a tracking device on both of my kids actually. It is Google Latitude and they both know it is on (they turned it on) and they use it to find my wife and I as well. I just used it a bit ago to make sure my son was at school. It is handy and simple. As long as the kids know how it works and set it up themselves it is a good idea.
everything controversial can be made acceptable by saying it will protect the children. Well you know what? fuck the children, we dont need any more of them, and who cares if we lose a couple a year? thins out the population.
Yeah, and I call it a "mobile phone".
The only risk is that the parent won't know the border of when it becomes integrity. When should you stop?
I know the pronoun likely is attached to the nearest noun, but I can't tell if Russell Thornton was traumatized and therefore built the tracker, or if the child was traumatized. Really, from the structure of that sentence it really seems like it is Russell who was traumatized.
Or a dog.
The risk isn't worth the lost of privacy. If we teach our kids it's ok to be tracked anytime and always, it won't be long until all the kids wear government mandated trackingdevices. Which they get to keep to wear when they grown into adults. So no. It's not worth it, the risk is so small, don't do it. Keep an eye on your kids, make sure your kids know when to kick, bite and scream, but don't go tracking them with hardware. It's stupid.
Kids need to learn how to function without relying on parents, and if you do things right it will help dramatically when your kid is now 18 and headed to some faraway place for college. While 3 is probably a bit too young, by about 8 or 9 the child should be able to go places on their own. And a kid who is never ever lost when he's between 3 and 6 years old is a kid that is probably being watched too closely.
The secret is to do so in stages. For example, my folks wanted me to get used to traveling without their help: At 3, they were still taking me most everywhere. At 6, I was now responsible for walking to school with an older neighbor's kid. By the next year, I didn't have to stick with the neighbor's kid anymore. In theory, something really bad could have happened to me, but the only real challenge came from traffic, not crime.
I am officially gone from
For that 2 to 6 demographic where a child is able to go somewhere, but may not have the forethought of sophistication to get back (of course depending on the child... I knew a 3 year old who could read, name all the states, presidents, vice presidents, and current governors, and use the phone and locate herself on a google map... what are they feeding kids these days?)
You could always give the kid a device they can turn on that transmits images and sound and sends a locating beacon. That and perhaps a shaped charge in one of their shoes, so as you're watching when the freak takes one of your child's shoes off... BANG!!!... no hands ma! Modern science can prove its incredibly hard to molest a child without hands.
I don't know if I'd put a tracker on my child. Maybe. but I do have a Tagg tracker on my dog.
I get a text alert anytime she leaves the "home zone" (which ranges to about 1/2 block from my house). The dog hasn't escaped from the yard since I started using it, but it's good peace of mind just in case she does - I can track her down easily and even if I'm at work, I'll know immediately if she gets out.
There are definitely privacy concerns, for example, anyone that looks at our Tagg activity will know when we're on vacation and where we are, and can pretty easily guess what time we go to work and what time we come home.
The Tagg device itself works very well - it's about the size of an adult's watch and is small enough to snap on the dog's collar. The battery lasts for about 2 weeks because the home docking station emits an RF signal that tells the device when it's in the home zone, so it doesn't waste battery power trying to get a GPS lock or talk to the cell phone network while the dog is at home. Even when the dog leaves the home zone, it doesn't use the GPS unless you explicitly request that the device be tracked through the website or smartphone app. When you request tracking, within a few minutes the device reports its GPS location every few minutes. If the device becomes detached from the dog's collar, it will notify you and report its location. It uses Verizon's cell phone network, so only works within cell phone range.
As long as the [amusement park | store | etc ] is legally required to remove it before you leave their premises, I would consider it.
I also would NOT want it to be easily removable for obvious reasons.
Side note: Heck, we already have leashes for our children...... :)
It might make sense here. But for every member of your party. An amusement park is a crowded area with lots of distractions. Beeing seperated from the rest of your party is always possible. Countermeasures should be taken. Starts from pre-arranged meeting points ("if someone gets lost we meet at the spinebreaker-ride-souvenir-shop at the next full hour") and does not end with making sure everyone has his cellphone handy.
bickerdyke
Reasons: law of headlines and comon sense.
I think one of the reasons there's an obesity epidemic in the U.S., particularly in children, is because parents are scared sh*tless to let their kids outside or out of their yards for fear that something bad would happen to them. So they end up staying home and watching TV or playing video games...leading a sedentary lifestyle and eating. It was quite a bit different many decades ago when I was a kid. So I think that having a way to track your kid isn't a bad thing if it will give parents peace of mind and allow kids to ride bikes and exercise more, the way dinosaurs like me did when we were kids.
I'm not yet a father, but if I have kids I will never subject them to something like this. I'm also the guy that does not bring a cellphone to the office because I don't feel the dependency. There are plenty enough gadgets in this life tracking us every second thank you very much.
Sadly our children should get used to being followed by authorities (older brother or sister, parents, neighbours, police, homeland security or government) 24/7 as early as possible.
Privacy is terrorism.
Or then just therapy sessions for the bad paranoid parent...
until the battery dies or they go into a dead zone
Or you could, you know, be a better parent and keep closer tabs on your little precious bundle of joy. Or just not have them if you can't handle the responsibility.
But I'm sure I'll be modded into oblivion by said parents.
I would have no issue whatsoever with putting a tracker on my child. For anyone under the age of 18, the parent is ultimately liable for their actions. If my kid gets in a car crash and it is their fault, I have to pay for it. If they break a store window for fun, I have to pay for it.
However, such a tool should not be a "why is my kid 5 minutes late?" type of tool. I would only use it in emergencies. For example, curfew is 11 pm and by 7am the next morning, they are still not home. Or my child walks home from school and usually gets home about 3pm, I call them multiple times and the school does not know where they are, I would use such a device. Also, I would love a feature that let me know when they left a certain radius or approached a certain area. Certain areas being the known criminal enterprise areas.
There is a difference between being "big brother" and using technology to enhance your parenting.
sudo make me a sandwich
'Wouldn't a more powerful sense of security come from knowing your children were capable, and trusting in their ability to reach out for help at the moment when they realize they're not?'"
Sure, when they're 16 years old. Throw a four-year-old out in the middle of a large crowd of unfamiliar people and rational thought is the last thing you can expect. That's why it takes a rational adult to calm them down and ask "Are you lost?"
I wish I could be that parent that never loses their child, but I'm a realist and accept that it can happen, so these tracking devices sound appealing to me for use on very young children who are as of yet incapable of rational, level-headed responses to scary situations like getting lost in a shopping mall.
I wouldn't stick it on my 16-year-old's pants when he or she starts driving. That's a different situation involving a (hopefully) much more mature and logical person. Not to mention I probably don't want to know where those pants are at certain moments. ("GPS Location Update: on the floor at boyfriend's house")
When my son is 3 years old, he'll be on a leash at an amusement park. Seriously. They make harnesses just for this purpose.
Don't get me wrong - when he's older, I will not be a helicopter parent. But a three year old is just a baby that can run. Fast. And if he's anything like I was as a kid, I'm in for big trouble.
:wq
I thought that was what child leashes were for?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Back in the olden days, when my kid was very small and most phones didn't have GPS, she carried one of those mountaineer walkie-talkies with GPS when we were on vacation. She had fun playing with it and it helped guarantee that we could find her when she got lost in a crowd. Later when she got better at identifying her position, she carried a smaller walkie-talkie strapped to her wrist. (The first day she wore it, she wandered off during a parade and got separated from us. She called and said she was by "the big lemon" -- a lemonaid cart a few blocks away.)
Later, she carried a smartphone with GPS turned on. I periodically looked her up in Latitude, called her when her position was not where I expected. I did this because she traveled a lot between 12 and 18, to tutors, night classes, and various school functions.
Now she's 18, has her own car, and the GPS in her Bionic is routinely turned off, because, apparently, it's no longer my business to know where she is. I have learned to accept this. She will turn on the GPS if she gets lost or has an equipment failure, and I can then pinpoint her position and send help or go myself.
Regarding having the satisfaction of getting un-lost yourself, there is truth to that. At six or seven, she was quite proud of the fact that she was able to identify her position (the big lemon) well enough for us to reconnect with her. (That may not be the best example.) She liked knowing where *I* was (I keep gps on all the time) through Latitude, and enjoyed using this knowledge to find me. More recently, she called me, said she was lost trying to drive to a friend's house, was very frustrated, and wanted me to go get her. As it was 11:00 PM on a work night, I was reluctant to do this, as she had gas and wasn't in danger. She figured it out on her own and was quite proud of herself afterwards. (The solution, by the way, was quite clever: The problem was a hiccup in Google Maps, which steered her to the wrong place when she entered a certain address. She tried an address close to her goal, and that worked well enough to find her goal.)
So yeah, I recognized very early on that my daughter doesn't have the instinct to cling to a parent, and as a result, we were early adopters of technological solutions, upgrading as new solutions became available. These days it's hard to find a phone that *doesn't* have GPS. Parenthetically, I'm all for giving a kid a cell phone (one of the cheap ones) at an early age. For her to be able to contact me in emergencies trumps other considerations.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
No thanks. I think I'll stick with teaching my kids to find a specific location we both know and stay there until I find them. Or, better yet, teach them not to wander off. Better still I'll not ignore my kids while we're in a busy public place where they can easily wander off in the first place.
I know, it only takes a second, and I've "lost" a kid (not my own) for the longest 5 minutes of my life, but it's still better than using technology to track everything. There's already enough invasion of my and my children's "privacy" as it is.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Would the consensus be that it is good to lose your children once in awhile.
I agree.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
everybody who works for the company providing the service ?
everybody who can get into the building this company is in?
everybody who is capable of hacking into the company's servers?
If yes, your child should not trust you.
The "Find your Friends" and the Find my iPhone" apps will give a very good location of your kids whereabouts.
It's also handy because it's simple to track down a misplaced phone (which seems to happen quite a bit more than it should).
Obviously, it's not a good solution for younger kids, but my pre-teen and teenage daughters adore their tracking devi.... er... iPhones.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
True, but children don't have a lot of liberties to begin with. Can they get a license to drive a car (under 16)? Can they buy and consume alcohol, or cigarettes legally? Can they vote? Can they legally work at any age? etc.
I am not afraid. Keep your crap
To do GPS tracking requires a device that's ungainly and highly noticeable. Like the one he invented in day-glow colors.
Sub-dermal RFID chips (like the one in my cat) on the other hand only work at very close range.
Either way, it won't protect from abductions, which I assume is the holy grail of these capitalist ventures (aka snake oil).
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
Have you looked at the world lately?
Only a truely evil human being would bring a child into this world as it is today.
And i can't imagine evil people would have that much problem putting tracking into or on their children.
http://koiwai.biz/eng/v3/ch21/21_11120x174_jpg.htm
Solve two problems with one solution. Know where they are and what they are not doing. You just have to be careful about saddlebacking.
Children should be micro-chipped until they are age 18 with GPS tracking. After that they are considered an adult and should be allowed to have it surgically removed. Of course , as some one who does not have children after watching the red-necks breed where i live, i also think they should also be put on leashes , not allowed in any public area including grocery stores, malls, movie theaters, or any where else i may want to go and not have to see your disobedient kid putting its disease infused hands all over everything.
I always had a problem with my kids not paying attention and not keeping up when I would go to the grocery store. So one day I walked away quickly so they were 'lost'. After 10 minutes or so I got them, they were teary but ok. I never had problems with them keeping up again.
love is just extroverted narcissism
...but fear is way up!
giggity
I used to work for the company (Zoombak) Securus acquired. During testing of our device (originally, designed for medium/large dogs), I had my son (who has ADHD) wear our device while on a Scout trip to the middle of a large National park. The device communicated via SMS over T-Mobile's network. It worked well and I knew his location throughout the entire trip.
When the economy turned, people began using the devices not for tracking their pets, but other people (usually, spouses, girlfriends, etc) without their knowledge. (We used to laugh at some of the names users gave their devices). Some used the device to stalk and kill their intended victims. That's the down-side to their use.
The primary difference I see in their new device is the one feature we wanted to see added to ours - that is a button to send an alert. They also improved the ability to obtain a location even when a GPS signal could not be obtained. Given the recent events where kids have been abducted and killed - the moment that somebody realized there was a problem, their location could be ascertained. Hypothetically, if the girls had these devices, they might still be alive today.
If you have been to a large amusement part and lost sight of your child, being able to pull out your smartphone and find your kid is a blessing.
It's good to see they are getting some good press on this.
. . . in case you want to score some yourself.
Children are always better informed about stuff like that than their parents.
This would be cool in emergencies, but way uncool if you are playing NSA with your kids.
Although, a tracker that would warn children to stay off my lawn would save their parents from scrapping rock salt shot off their britches.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I really do not see the problem with an un-noticable light-weight passive device. Words like "rare", "few", and "has declined" are very misleading when not matched with numbers and citations. When I was growing up, child abduction was unheard of. It would never have occurred to any of us to be fearful of an adult, including those we frequently encountered in lonely areas who were armed and openly carried. (I grew up in the deep woods of the deep south.) We now have to deal not only with child abduction but also with their rape and murder.
A funny story from those days: A three-year old went missing and was found two states over. Turns out the tyke accidentally crawled into the wrong car in a parking lot and fell asleep. His was a fine adventure. To this day he is very creative and unafraid of difficulty.
For my son who has autism, I might consider a GPS tracking device... then again, so far a phone number written on his arm has provided enough peace of mind. On the off chance that 1. We are in an amusement park with him 2. We lose sight of him and 3. He manages to get lost, I trust people will be so kind as to help and call. Not understanding the concept of queues doesn't help, of course, and is reason for an autistic meltdown, so we don't tend to drop by at amusement parks all that often. He'll generally have a far better time going for a walk in the woods.
If you turn to Slashdot for parenting advice, you're a shitty parent.
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
But what if the child loses it? I propese that instead of putting the tracking device on the child we should put it IN the child.
I think a tracking device is bad because it induces a false sense of security. It's not so much about where your kid is, it's about what he is doing.
From my experience watching over my now 6 (and a half !) yr old nephew, losing sight of him is not really an issue per se. I've lost track of him a handful of times over the years - how far can a kid go in 10 seconds ? VERY ! Those instances only served to motivate me to watch him more closely, which is useful for the really dangerous stuff: not stopping at crossings, not staying on the sideway, climbing chairs/tables when you can't even walk, finding the adults fussing over you when you get close to an electrical outlet a lot of fun...
I'm betting the ratio of kids hurt or dead because of being lost/kidnapped to kids hurt/dead because of not being watched closely enough is one to ten thousands. Let's not get the issue wrong, especially when "fixing" the wrong issue can lead us to falsely assume that the real issue is fixed, too.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
If the hunt isn't challenging, the kill isn't satisfying.
The problem with phones or walkie-talkies is that they can be dropped, misplaced, or intentionally destroyed.
Will probably upset some folks, but I'd seriously considering "chipping" my children. We spend the money and tech on our household pets. Surely our children are more valuable to us?
No, he's 29 and he'd be pissed.
The tracker needs to go on mom and dad. Ask any 3 year old and they'll tell you "I never get lost but mom and dad get lost sometimes and they freak out when they do"
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
I don't see a downside to GPS tracking your kids. We use GPS on our smart phones to find directions to places in our direct neighborhood. It's ubiquitous. The whole "Children need to find out how to get unlost by themselves" is complete luddite garbage. Children are entering a future where this kind of technology is intrinsically linked to their development. Keeping them inside of a tech-free bubble, just because the parents never grew up with the same technology around them ("And they turned out fine!") is just as bad as brainwashing them into religion at an early age, and yet it's something I often hear from my friends and co-workers who are in the technology industry. I also often see it here on Slashdot whenever someone poses a question on what technology they should introduce to their kids.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
Yes, I want this. They get real freedom when they're 18. And no, I'm not worried about violent crime... I'm worried my kids will do exactly the same things I did.
No.
Fuck off and die!!
I was actually talking to my Mom the other day...laughing about when I was about 2-3yrs..I wandered off from her, and got lost in the dept store...and they had to call over the intercom for her to get me.
She said I never would wander off after that, and if I acted bad, she would tell me she was leaving..and I'd cry and promise to act right..etc.
But, not long after that, I'd guess when I was about 1st grade...when we'd go to the mall, she'd leave me in the toy section or the book section and I'd be happy there till she was done. A couple years later, she'd let me wander the mall to look at the book stores, etc......
I can't believe things are that much more dangerous now, are there? I often wonder, instead of more 'craziees' out there...if it is just more sensationally reported due to needing to fill up 24/7 news?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
From the blurb: "our children need never experience the fears that come with momentary separations"
You know what? Our children are so much shielded from everyday life experiences that they grow up to be big sissies that can't stand anything. When do people realize that 1) they have to bring up their kids, and 2) that means making them experience things they don't like and that even scare them every so often. You already see in politics now that our countries are being guided by absolute lunatics who don't know how to react to even the slightest unexpected mishap. I really fear for what the next generation will do. They have grown up in schools where learning is fun, instead of the hard work it's supposed to be. They have an attention span of at most one minute. and they can't handle anything that is outside the expectation pattern they were imprinted with because they never had anything unexpected happen to them. WTF? So please please get rid of those tracking devices and just tell your kids not to trust strangers and give them the chance to grow up!
-- Cheers!
A parent actually pay attention to their kid instead of cramming their head up their ass with their own cell phone. and perhaps while we are at it, teach the kid how to behave in public instead of running off screaming while the parent starts yelling at them.
A tracking device is fine for a young child or one with limited abilities. At age 3, my kid couldn't coherently answer questions about his name or his parents' names. He was mobile enough to get lost, didn't have a sense of privacy, and didn't have the skills to help himself.
Great I'm going to let my child learn that it's normal to be permanently under surveillance.
This is is going to be imprinted in his subconscious mind from his very birth. No room for him to learn about becoming an autonomous adult: an electronic nany is looking over him.
Brilliant.
...and start mandatory chip insertion programs now!
you're not good at funny. granted, you're even worse at factual, but you really are not any good at funny. if you have to preface your attempt at humor with "trying to be funny here" that should be a clue that you shouldn't even try.
The thing that strikes me the most here is this: while stranger abductions are the ones that get the attention, children are much more likely to be abused by close relatives or those who have regular access to them -- and a tracking device won't be of much help there.
Yes, I would. There are a multitude of smartphone apps that do it, but the problem with those is they drain the battery so badly the phones (android or iphone) don't last even 8 hours with a standard battery. I've tried them.
My parents didn't need one, why should I?
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Real parents put tracking devices *in* their children.
One could argue.... about car seats.... but, instead let's argue that since the Russell Thornton hasn't been wearing a tracking device all his life, he's one of those people who fail to realize how useful ankle-bracelets are. Russel? Hello?
What about radiation and related health hazards? If I use a GPS device and keep it on my child's person (say, hang it around his neck or waist), won't the fact that he is constantly near an active device hurt him/her? I understand that we all carry such devices nowadays, but the effects (if any) may be more pronounced on a toddler or a kid 3-5 years old. I read some reports recently on a linkage between brain tumor and handset radiation. I myself start getting a severe headache every time I put a cell phone to my ear for more than 20 seconds. Note that, comparatively, having a device on your person is much more dangerous than being surround by radiation from devices surrounding you.
Would you allow your parents to place a tracking device on you? Your employer? A journalist? Your friendly neighborhood cop? Anyone?
Well at least he doesn't link to his own blog, so props for that.
Would You Put a Tracking Device On Your Child?
The answer to that is an emphatic, "Yes and No." Slightly off-topic, but I think it is important to keep these thoughts fresh in our minds, in the current context:
The answer to that exact question is, "Yes." I might put a tracking device on my child, if I chose to, for my own reasons, under my own authority and control, without coercion or consideration by society, government, or any third party.
But do not confuse that with the question, "Would I consent to allowing someone else to put a tracking device on my child, or would I put a third-party-controlled tracking device on my child?" The answer to that is a very tenuous, "Maybe, but I need a lot more information and some serious legal accountability."
Even more hazardous is the question, "Would you consent to society mandating that children wear a tracking device under a third party's control?" The answer to that is an emphatic, "No."
Ubiquitous tracking is presumption of guilt. In my nation, the government is not authorized to create such a law. Let us not slip down the slope by failing to restate those limits early and often.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
Apparently you haven't been to China.
Give your kid matches. When they get lost and then bored, you will be able to spot the column of smoke for miles and go right to where your kid is.
Yea, I said it, and I'll say it again. I'm glad I don't have kids.
Now is the "Brave New World".
I watched my siblings down through the years raise their kids, and with the advent of smart phones, social media, etc; the pressures on parents now are, in my opinion as an outside observer, more intense than say 30 or 50 years ago.
Growing up in the 70's in a small rural town was so easy. Parent Teacher meetings were more laid back(if parents went at all). Pressure to be a part of all sorts of extra-curricular groups and teams wasn't there like it is now, and if a kid wanted to, it didn't cost an enormous amount of money like it does now(according to my siblings with kids...) I was gone for hours after school and on the weekend and especially in the summer, and there was no way to communicate with me unless by some strange coincidence I was somewhere where a phone was. etc; etc; no cable tv, no internet, etc; etc; You've heard this all before...
As others have pointed out, this tracking of everything and anything is the "new normal". Yes, that is true, but it doesn't make it right.
If anything, this trend will get to the point to where even thoughts will be monitored, tracked, evaluated, etc;
We all know it's coming.
Would anyone with a shred of honesty really say they would rather live in a world like that?
The question is how long will human society continue under such a system?
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
All these comments along he lines of "Not my kids... when I have any."
You who do not have children have no fucking clue what parenthood is like. None whatever. If you have no children, you have no reason to even be on this thread, except to ask questions. An opinion based on total ignorance (like, say, a biologist giving an opinion on string theory) is never going to be a good one, and it's just going to make you look stupid.
Parenting is both the most rewarding and demanding job there is. Again, unless you have kids you know as much about parenting as someone who has never taken LSD knows about what LSD is like.
You kids may come back in five years when you actually have a three year old. If you do and see your own responses, you'll be saying "boy, was I ever ignorant!!!"
BTW, both of my kids are grown.
Free Martian Whores!
There is no problem with putting a tracking device on a child as long as it is only used for good. Since there is nothing that could possibly go wrong, it is probably a good idea.
I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person that I'm preaching to.
At the Melbourne show with my son when he was about seven we were both in a really thick crowd of people. I turned around for a moment and he was gone. I couldn't find him anywhere and he didn't know where I was either. Eventually he retraced his steps and found me where we had last seen each other but I had a very frantic five minutes or so. My son has done this a few times. He seems to enjoy hiding and watching me search for him. Great fun for him.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Would have ruined the entire plot of Heavy Rain, though.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Depends on the situation, age of child, etc.
Heck, I have my family members and a good friend on my latitude account. Normally it's logged out/turned off, but when I'm doing a long drive on possibly poor road-conditions (snowy highway at night), I flip it on and text where I'm doing. If I don't text that I've arrived by a reasonable time, my friends/family can see my last position and check that I didn't run off the road or whatever.
Would I "bug" my teenagers without their permission/knowledge. No.
If I had young kids making a long walk to school, travelling for the first time, whatever, I might go with a GPS. Depending on the age of the kid, it'd be an option. If the kid is old enough to take care of himself/herself, then he/she is probably old enough to turn the thing off anyhow or just make the choice not to have it.
You can get devices that have an "SOS" button that allows the child to discreetly track its location by SMS to a designated phone. A decent compromise I think: I wouldn't want to track my child but I am interested in giving them a tool they can use to reach out if they think they are in real danger (eg being abducted).
Helicopter parent.
By all means, keep a sharp eye on your kids, but over-coddling leads to a generation of adults that have no idea how to cope with life.
I lost my 4yo daughter for about 20 minutes at a kiddie concert and, yes, it was a little worrying. It was also a valuable lesson to us both so that we discussed what each of us should do if separated. That _didn't_ include electronic tracking devices.
Of course, my attitude may change once she starts dating :-)
Just give him a cell phone with an application that sends GPS position to a network service, not hard, no need for a "device".
For kids too young to know the difference, I would happily put a tracking device on them if it were cheap, nonobvious, nonharmful, and unlikely to get damaged by regular small child activities, or hinder their activities in any way (a sticker on their clothing or something). Once they were old enough to care, I would give it to them and let them decide if/when they wanted to let me track them.
Personally, I'd be happy giving one of these to my GF to track me if we were out of town, and putting one on myself for her, too. I think people tracking you without your knowledge and permission is kind of creepy and rather wrong, but (certain) people tracking me with my knowledge and permission seems like a totally good idea.
If my mom had given me one of these even in high school, I would've made fun of her, and then I would've worn it anyway, cause it wouldn't bother me if she did know where I was (generally nowhere terribly interesting), and that way she would have perhaps stopped freaking out if I was home late cause I was out with friends, which she did with alarming regularity.
Paranoid rich. And late to market as well. There have been these devices for a while now.
Dear rich guy, "stranger Danger" is not real. Worry about your closest family or friends more than some random person taking your spawn.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
What about something like a spot tracker not a cell phone. Slashdot is too BYOD/consumer these days. I wouldn't put one on my kid. They don't make a cell phone that would last one week on him.
I have some equipment I'd like to track (seems too expensive for that). How long will the operate with a new battery or charge?
As the father of a son that is mentally handicapped... where can I buy one?
Funny to read this at the end of the day as I have been working today on a tracker module for drones. The primairy function of the device is to transmit it's own position to the drone so that it can follow a person or keep a camera pointed to it. It has a tiny tranceiver and a GSP inside and the current prototype is as big as a pager. By having all this functionality already on a circuitboard, it has made me think several times over the past few weeks about a solution for tracking my kids when i go to a big mall or an amusement park. I seem to have all the building blocks in place with this circuit. A small software modification would do it i guess.
With perhaps 4 or 8 leds in a circle to show the direction of the other device, you can use one device to find another. Just go in the direction of the led that is lit.
Battery life can be extremely long as the tranceiver has a sleep function that can keep the device asleep until it receives a radiosignal. Radio range would be something like 1.5km in an amusement park with the current tranceivers but thats more then enough i guess.
Anyway, i like your thinking and i think it can give parents some peace of mind in those situation. I have been there, so i know i would like to have one.
This is not a commercial project but if enough people drop me an email on info@carotechnology.com, i 'll see what i can do.
Jeroen
The problem with an ordinary cell phone is that the battery runs down. Or the child forgets it somewhere. Or it drops out of the pocket/backpack/etc. somewhere and now you do not know where either the phone is or the child.
Solution to all of these problems is simple and obvious. First, you need a larger battery - so you get a car battery. Attach it to the cell phone with a car charger and wrap the entire assembly in an attractive package. Include two smallish handles on the sides. I suggest either a leather strap or duct tape to attach the child to this package securely.
Small children do not wander off when attached to a 30+ pound car battery. When they can wander about freely with the car battery it is less of a problem and, heck, you still have the phone there, right?
There is the small social problem of your 17 year-old daughter explaining to her date why she is duct-taped to a car battery wrapped in pink-and-white fabric, but she probably figured out some good stories starting when she was twelve. "My parents are crazy paranoid about kidnappers and drug dealers" probably works every time.
These type of things address the problem of "temporarily misplaced". Parent can't find the child immediately.
It can also create a false sense of intelligence. "I know where my child is."
These devices tell you one thing: Where is the device?
It is a piece of technology for the convenience of not having to keep an eye on the child. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
At some point, the child will learn to defeat it. Take it off, leave it somewhere, exchange with someone else.
As the article states, a false sense of trust. It can be abused. Things abused lead to trust issues.
You tread awfully close to heresy. Next you're going to suggest here should be winners and losers in T-Ball, and only one trophy. For the Winner.
What is needed is a GPS enabled Panic button for adults. Looks like a watch with two yellow buttons opposite each other and two red buttons. Press the two yellow button and the cops will start looking for you but they won't rush. Press the two red button and they will look for you immediately and they won't stop until they find you. If you disappear for a few days then they will be able to locate you but it will require paperwork.
Of course to improve respond time you would have to use automation and you would have to disprese the police officiers.
I think you should be chipped & tracked from birth.
That way, when the aliens come to wipe us out, there is no question if they got us all.
Well, to be fair, in parts of Europe, the age of consent is 13, drinking is not limited by age (just purchase, and it's lightly enforced in many smaller towns) and many European countries are moving to voting rights at 16 recently.
Are you arguing that establishing a culture of ubiquitous tracking and constant reliance on others with little fear of consequences is a seriously good thing?
2. Headlines: Big child scare or threat or actual harm: MANY MANY children were kidnapped or lost last year!!!!
3. Voluntary application: Get your kid chipped, and we'll be able to reconnect you or let you know where they are! Safer, with peace of mind!
4. Coerced application: For your child's safety, to your child must get chipped.
5. Mandatory: This has turned out to be a pretty good idea. In order to claim your child tax deduction, fly on an airplane, vote, e.g, you must have an SSN and RFID #.
6. Generation 1 accomplished.
7. Repeat.
Inevitable? Yes, unless our trajectory drastically changes. Police are now using portable fingerprint scanning devices ($300?) per copy. Why not an RFID scanner?
Congratulations! You fell for the "I know I'll be modded down for this" ploy that works on gullible mods all the time.
Involuntary tracking is NEVER OK. It desensitizes kids to the dangerous of life. An unsuspecting society is causing lots of problems. Government is being allowed to run rampant over our liberties and things like this tie into that. The powerful and wealthy individuals should not be able to dictate every little thing we do. Nor should the masses be allowed to trample over segments of society they don't like. Be it those smoke, drink, or take drugs or eat too much. I don't want to live in a nanny sate and this is the action of an overprotective parent. Such things lead to our own greater acceptance of unreasonable acts and intrusions on our lives (such airport security scanners- it' for our own good they say! but no- it's not- it's done so some CEO's pocket book can be enlarged).
Car seats are reasonable safety precautions. They are like seat belts. Requiring them to be an option in all cars and pass certain safety tests is probably reasonable. Requiring that all persons purchase them on the other hand is not. I think such laws are ridicules. I think social security numbers, license plates, and drivers licenses are unethical. While I'm not against pulling people over who are a real threat it should not be without burden on the state to do so. If a person is such a threat to the security of the populous make an arrest. You don't need a drivers license or license plate for this.
That leads to another issue. STOP TRACKING those who are released from prison. It's cutting the burden on government to resolve societal problems. Society should not throw people in jail at let them rot. We need to review on a case by case basis why people are doing something and work out a solution. The idea that we should punish them is wrong. The idea of victims rights is non-sense. While it is unfortunate that a crime has occurred the only “rights” a victim should have is to seek reasonable compensation against the perpetrator and/or collaborators. It may not be reasonable for the perpetrator to pay out though. Crime doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's a societal issue and society should pay.
You should be grateful to NOT to be in the perpetrators shoes regardless of how much pain they have caused. There the ones who need help the most in our society. They are the ones the system has failed. Not the victims. Victims in general have gained too much protection, too many 'rights' that benefit no one, and perpetuate an unfair state.
I have hired employees with mental health issues and prison records. Most of these population is seriously disenfranchised. Drugging them, prisons, and crazy asylums are not the answer.
Its called a GPS tracking collar for Dogs. You can even get them with spikes, any size,
any color. I didn't look too hard, but it could conceivably be combined with a bark
collar, and set it so if the kid cries, it zaps him.
Some are two-way, you can push a button on the remote, and it beeps at level 1.
At level 10 it electrocutes the little darling. The idea is, start with level 1, and
if he comes, fine. If not, go to level 2, etc.
If you are really worried, you can also tie a chain or leash to it, put a name/address
tag on it, etc.
Besides dogs and children, this could have applications in collaring errant girlfriends,
etc. If the bitch don't listen, level 10 !
I have a 7 year old Autistic Spectrum daughter that "wanders". Got her a Tagg Pet Tracker GPS device that she wears on her wrist. Works great and at $8.00 per month is about 1/4 the price of the devices that are marketed to parents. I set it so that it emails/texts whenever she goes more than 26 yards from the house. But it's great because I can log in and see if she is at school, the park or her favorite place with all of the samples - Whole Foods.
You just don't worry the same, and oddly, she has not managed to escape since we got the device.
Mom loves it too.
Can get a second one for $1.00 per month.
I have a child who is autistic. He's unafraid of bolting out into the unknown and unaware of what to do when he's gotten in over his head. I wouldn't give a second thought to "chipping" him if I thought it would reduce the chances of him coming to a bad end.
I've twin 4 year old boys and I'd stick a tracker to them if I could!
Bollocks to the politically correct brigade! Until they are 16 they are my property and I'm responsible for anything they do. So I'd want to be able to find them if I needed to ... and being boys, and twins, and 4 .. they have the attention span of a knat and zoom around like hamsters on crack! Keeping dibs on them in busy places is a full time job :-)
In a heart beat.
Note: Child is the operative word, not teen.
Ah-hah! It is funny because no woman would ever want to sleep with you, right?
Dr. Phil.
Teaches Stranger-Danger in every show he has about such things.
After I saw that, my respect for the man, plummeted down to very little.
I'm generally against any kind of tracking-related initiatives, but with my kids, I wouldn't mind to have such an option. Hell, they could be implanted at birth with a tracking device which runs out of juice in 14-15 years. I know, it wouldn't be easy for me to accept this - since we know governments, they'd quickly broaden this to cover the entire population... yes, I'm that pessimistic in such matters - but it would be something that at least I would consider thinking about. I don't have kids yet (but I will, hopefully), but I have nephews and nieces, and I care about them, and I don't think most parents would mind to have a way of querying their children's whereabouts below a certain age. Unfortunately this world we're living in is not the safest place.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Over the last 20 years of parenthood I ran into exactly two instances (that I knew of) where they encountered a genuinely predatory person. I was able to ensure nothing bad happened on those occasions. So I agree the chances are remote. But so what, when it's your kids no chance at all is acceptable.
I also had a small number of occasions like the OP where the child wandered off in a crowded place and I went into Defcon-6 OMG mode. Again nothing bad happened. But you cannot discount the chance of a troubled person (who otherwise would have done nothing) taking an impulse opportunity if they randomly encounter an obviously unattended child.
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
For all of you saying a cell phone is only good for tracking your kid if the phone is on, you obviously don't have teenagers. Show me a time when their phones aren't on.
Yes, I know, the story is about little kids, but I have a three year old who is constantly toting around my old iPhone (as a touch). I could easily have him toss that in his book bag when he gets to be school-aged, if only to use the "find my friends" feature to know where he is. I use that feature with my oldest son (17, doesn't live with me) when he's coming to visit so I know where he is on his drive (70 miles), and help him if he gets turned around in The Big City once he gets into town.
And sure, all this only works if you have cell coverage or if the phone is on, but like I said, show me a teenager who turns his or her phone off...ever.
How about y'all just watch your kids yourself? How about that?
A key part of parenting is trust between you and the child. Tracking your child erodes that trust.
You know when they put a sort of leash on the toddlers then walk them like a dog? I thought it heinous, but when I made a disparaging remark among a circle of friends, it turned out one or two of them had spent some of their years being on a leash themselves.
So, there are parents willing to put a leash on their children. Literally. That makes me think that this kind of tracking will take off.
I'm more inclined to the posts saying kids should be allowed to get lost - that you shouldn't shelter them too much.
This gives me an idea, however: what if we just forget putting trackers on the kids, but instead put a tracker on the parents and give the kids access. That way the child can learn to find their own way back, and there's no longer a privacy question as now it's the person themselves making a decision about themselves being tracked.
What they really need is shock collars. See, you take the collar and you put it on the parent's neck. If the child strays too far away it activates.
The trick is to throw them edgewise onto concrete and give them enough spin that it lands on a corner and bounces back upright.
Did that experiment when I discovered its music player had no folder browsing, no custom EQ, and reset the on-the-go playlist everytime I connected to charge. Now a happy Note 2 user.
My SO is a very attractive woman and so was her mother. When my SO was a kid, in a mall, under the watch of here mother, some crappy looking nasty men tried to abduct her and my SO's mom freaked out and then ran to a security guard, waiting for the police.
Of course mall nowadays are probably one of the safest place on earth to "lose" a kid: there are so many webcams everywhere that it's all too easy to find an abducter. Overall there are so many webcams (including but not limited to to trafic cams) and these webcams are getting always more and more capable (higher definition etc.) that one could infer that you'd have to be a really stupid person to try to abduct someone in a mall (or anywhere in a city for that matters).
But still: my SO remembers that she nearly got abducted and I can tell you that the day we'll have kids we'll use every non-intrusive technology we can find to keep them safe. Including trackers.
We're clearly moving towards an "open society", where every public space shall be monitored / recorded (be it by surveillance cams, trafic cams, car cams [for example on rental cars or inside cabs] or simply cellphones / watches / glasses). It's just a by-product of technology.
I don't *want* that "open / transparent" society and I do seriously think that laws protecting the private space should be strenghtened but I have to admit that from a child-abduction point of view you can come to the only conclusion that more surveillance in the public space is a good thing.
It is normal that the number of abduction are going down in civilized countries: there's too many risk of getting caught for the bad guys and no matter how stupid they are, they can understand that.
This often advisable for children with disabilities that may cause them to wander or run.
I don't have kids and have no intention of having kids. But hell yes I would put a tracker on my kid. Once they're of the age where it would be embarrassing they're probably smart enough to handle the cell phone that so many posters are promoting, and if they wanted me to pay for their cell phone they'd have to accept that I'd be tracking their ass with it, too. Not spying, I'm not that much of an asshole. But when you're responsible for them (and you are) then I think tracking their position is your prerogative. It's what you do with the information that really defines you. Part of that is that if you fail to protect them, then you've failed at your primary mission, and part of that is that if they fail to learn how to protect themselves, then you've failed equally.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Considering that you have the chance of losing everything by not having this, and that you lost nothing at all by having it, I see no reason not to have a tracking device on your child.
"'Wouldn't a more powerful sense of security come from knowing your children were capable, and trusting in their ability to reach out for help at the moment when they realize they're not?'"
Yes, but children are not fully capable, may not be full able, and may not realize they're in a sticky situation... that's why we shouldn't rush to condemn folks who use such devices.
I would figure there might be case for kids under 6, maybe. But the situation has more to do with it.
For example, children with farsightedness who are not yet wearing glasses fundamentally are attracted to things farther away because they are in focus, and thus run off.
But really, if you can get over your pride, just put the kids on a physical leash. It doesn't make you a bad parent, though social stereotypes seem to say you are.
Giving my kid a tracking device that a scumbag school administrator can use for whatever they want - no, screw that.
No. It obviously has several caveats but it could offer some potential advantages, which I mentioned in another message. I'm simply playing devil's advocate.
I am having the same thoughts.
I have been working on a tracker device lately where one tracer can find the other. Something like the use in snow areas but only with more range and a smaller footprint. The primary target was to control drones in a simple way, but with all electronics in place, this is just a matter of a simple software change and perhaps some leds to show direction and distance to the other device.Current size is now that of an old fashioned pager with a range of 1.5km.
I don't know when these are ready. Drop me an email and i'll keep you informed: info@carotechnology.com.
At my birthday celebration, every mother at the event (okay 2), agreed that a sub-dermal implant would be a great addition to their children and a great comfort to mommies everywhere. It creates the kind of false sense of security which re-elected Bush then elected Obama. When I asked them how they felt about encouraging a 1984-style information society they said "well they can just have the chip removed when they are out of college." I said "what adult wants to give up a 22 or 25 year old security blanket?" I also pointed out that being trackable by GPS does not prevent sociopaths from using that same trackability to stalk and abduct children. If the GPS chip is in a standard place, any potential kidnapper will remove the offending bit of technology rendering the child invisible to easy location and recovery operations. The response? Nothing. I voided their emotions and made them think instead. Mission accomplished, and all before my third beer.
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
I work for SafetyNet by LoJack and we do have a device that both children and adults wear if they have a cognitive condition, such as Alzheimer's and autism, in the event they wander and get lost. Some children with autism do not even speak. Hence they cannot call out for help if they are lost or hurt. Most of the time, they don't even know they are lost and in danger.
SafetyNet by LoJack works with local public safety agencies (such as police departments or sheriff's offices) training them on how to use the tracking equipment, but also on how to approach someone with a cognitive condition.
This is a different scenario than putting a tracking device on a typical child. But I wanted to let you know that we are here to help families who are worried about a loved one wandering or bolting and getting lost. You can read more about it at www.safetynetbylojack.com
or please email me at JMorrissey@lojack.com
Jennifer
Customer Care Specialist