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Fisker Hybrids Get Bad Karma From Superstorm Sandy
New submitter slas6654 writes with this excerpt from Jalopnik: "Approximately 16 of the $100,000+ Fisker Karma extended-range luxury hybrids were parked in Port Newark, New Jersey last night when water from Hurricane Sandy's storm surge apparently breached the port and submerged the vehicles. As Jalopnik has exclusively learned, the cars then caught fire and burned to the ground.' Apparently Fiskar super-duty lithium ion batteries are neither water-proof or water soluble."
the 'submerged in water' use case?
Come on, editors, get your act together already.
The cars were totalled the minute they were submerged. If they were destroyed later, why does that matter?
We already knew it was a piece of shit.
Pretty basic chemistry going on here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhW7TtXIAM
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Because they caught on fire?
It looks like several were close together, while others parked a little bit away were unscathed. Perhaps one caught fire and that burnt adjacent cars? They were parked pretty close, and there's a Karma in one of the photos that didn't suffer the same fate.
We have flash floods every summer in Texas. Most cars that run into a few feet of water simply stall. If instead, your car explodes and kills all the occupants, then you've got a potential death trap.
Because most cars don't burst into flame when submerged.
The party's over
It's a witch!
Generally speaking if you're driving through FEET of water, perhaps you shouldn't do that?
Yes I know flash floods happen, but the vast bulk of cars submerged aren't being driven at the time.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
If you are driving your car during a flash flood you are none too bright. Lots of ways to die in a conventional car that way.
Most cars that ingest water don't just stall. They also manage to ruin the engine.
Something that happens in flooded streets are people driving in a foot or two of water (which the car can handle) suddenly entering a much deeper area because they cannot see the road lowering with the water above it.
With a normal car, you then sputter to a halt, get out and or wait there for help.
Or an alternate case, less likely but it does happen, is that an accident throws your car into a lake. It sucks, but you make your way out.
Now enter a car that catches fire as soon as it's in deep water. Now you have a WAY more serious problem, and cannot see or even breathe. This is a really bad problem to have and is something that could result in some deaths. They need more safegaurds to prevent mere immersion from destroying the car if nothing else so occupants can get out.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It also means "is fishing". I found the headline hilarious.
1. Idiots
2. Since the water is usually not as clear as a swimming pool, it may not be obvious how deep the water actually is.
MIX 1 and 2! Result: car driven into flood waters.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Let me explain it simply. On Earth, water falls from the sky, very frequently, sometimes with great force. Having a consumer level bomb that is activated by water is a bad idea whilst operating on Earth. It is a very volatile condition. These cars BURNED by being put in water and you dont think that is cause for alarm? Not one or two but over a DOZEN.
Good-bye
Because most cars don't burst into flame when submerged.
Wasn't that a problem with the Canyonero?
Oh wait, never mind.
Why did you write Idiots twice?
Driving through water is dumb, driving through water that you do not know the depth of is suicidal.
Why are we spending tax dollars making scissors?
So you want to kill people who have a different viewpoint than you. Dude you need help.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Top Gear says you're wrong, and at least as far as the Toyota Hilux is concerned, 5 hours submerged in salt water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
The point of "flash" in flash flood is that it happens extremely rapidly - one doesn't exactly plan ahead for it.
An understanding of somewhat basic chemistry makes this a "duh" moment. Lithium + water = everyone's favorite science class demonstration.
Wouldn't be the first government stimulus project to go up in flames. Hopefully it'll be the last.
The article has four pictures.
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
But at least it smelled like steak. This probably smells like burnt plastic and despair.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
If it's up to your hood, it's at least multiple FEET deep.
As I said there would be instances where it's unavoidable but the VAST VAST majority are.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
That's the point of "flash" flooding. It's unexpected. Perfectly good drivers turn a bend in the road on a rainy night and run straight into a gulley with 4 feet of water. We've got a lot of country roads with no lighting and poor visibility. Happens every summer around here - except deaths are extremely rare. But - if your car exploded before you could get out? Very bad.
Lithium is an alkali metal, and therefore highly reactive when introduced to water, quickly turning into hydrogen gas and lithium hydroxide. If the barrier between battery and the outside failed, fire is a likely outcome.
I wonder how much CO2 a burning hybrid produces?
sig: pv qid
It's stupid for people to let their kids play with executive toys made of rare-earth magnets, too. But that didn't stop the government from shutting down Buckyballs.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
You NEVER know the depth of water. If you've ever driven through a puddle, count yourself as an idiot. That could have been much deeper, and you wouldn't have known. See point 2 above.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
I hardly know her!
How the fuck do you plan to avoid a FLASH flood, there genius?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
If you are driving your car during a flash flood you are none too bright. Lots of ways to die in a conventional car that way.
I'm going to assume that where you live, flash flooding is rather uncommon.
One cannot predict when or where a flash flood will occur - hence the 'flash' in the name. So, to say that people who drive "during a flash flood" are "none to bright" only serves to prove your ignorance on the topic.
Were we discussing regular, predictable flooding, I would wholeheartedly agree.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Fisker does not represent what electric vehicles are capable of- they represent what you get when you combine lots of money with shotty engineering. So who does it better? Well, if you haven't heard of them- Tesla motors is making a lot of headway.
Because no other car is going to burst into flames as a result of this.
Being wrecked beyond repaid, sure, but catching fire is a whole different animal.
Anybody who lives in places which get any significant amount of rain is eventually going to drive through a puddle .. if that leads to a smoking lithium flame, well, that's a horrible design flaw.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Does it make a difference whether they are inundated with any kind of water, or salt water?
Proverbs 21:19
Because it had higher storm surge than most category 5 hurricanes do. It also covered a much wider area than any normal hurricane does. The problem was that it was really 3 storms and some very strange weather conditions including the placement of the jet stream and some cold air moving into the area.
You can't rate this just on a simple hurricane scale just like not all magnitude X earthquakes do the same damage. You could have a 6 that does almost no damage and a x that does staggering damage just based on the type of quake and duration the result is the same for storms.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Because it's not just the windspeed, it's the size of the storm and the size and intensity of storm surge. Far and away more damage is done from flooding than from the wind.
apparently?
"We're not exactly sure what submerged these 16 cars Tom, but our best guess is that it was was from that ocean just over there."
Actually regular cars do occasionally catch fire from flooding. Plastic dashboards and damaged wiring are a bad mix.
No matter how deep 1 wheel getting into water is not an issue. The suspension will bottom and car will continue to move.
I do not drive through standing water on the road if that is what you meant.
Sorry, are you really that new here? Or just having an aphasia?
Complaining about slashdot's "conservative base" is sort of like complaining about Facebooks "tireless devotion to user privacy."
So flash flooding occurs on top of hills or like all flooding in low lying areas?
Because if the latter is the case, do not drive in bad weather in low lying areas.
Deep water looks like shallow water. So when you see a puddle, it could be much deeper. When you drive through water that is more than 2" deep, it could have been much deeper. Most people who drive through deep water thought it much more shallow. Because deep water looks like shallow water. I can't make this any more simple.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
What makes Hurricane Sandy a superstorm is the amount of area that was covered by damaging winds.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
As someone who also lives in Florida, I can explain.
1. Very little preparation for the type of weather that a hurricane can cause. In Florida, we have storm drains that take away most of the water that a hurricane causes. Add in building codes that require buildings to be designed for hurricanes (typically category 3) and utilities that are designed specifically for hurricanes, and you'll find that down here, things are pretty robust by design. New Jersey and New York didn't have that type of preparation and you had buildings collapse.
2. Record storm surges. In some places, the storm surge was over 13 feet where the harbor was only designed to handle the (then historic record) 12 feet, causing massive flooding.
3. Fires. Gas lines caught fire, causing over 100 homes to burn to the ground.
4. In New Jersey specifically, they had a berm go under water due to the storm surges, causing even more damage.
Ultimately, take a look at the damage predictions and you'll see why its called a superstorm. Wind was only part of the issue.
I shouldn't have my taxes go to produce cars that only people like Justin Bieber and Ashton Kutcher can afford. It doesn't benefit me or the economy in the least.
Hahaha - in the countryside south and east of Austin, Texas, everything is "low lying". The problem with the flash floods is they can occur just from a normal rain storm. A few years ago, a colleague of mine left work late one night, rounded a corner in an industrial complex and ran straight into several feet of water in a dip in the road with no warning. Her car stalled, and the mud and water killed the engine and ruined the car. But at least she was able to get out and walk away.
Personally I would just pull the plugs and evacuate the cylinders, but hey I guess to each their own.
I don't drive an electric vehicle -- I've got a pick-up truck. Where the hell would I put my semi-automatic assault rifle gun rack in a Prius??? Where would I throw the carcasses of the wild boars? This is Texas we're talking about - got to have room for stuff.
Seawater conducts electricity - if any part of the battery terminals were exposed for extended periods (which, presumably, they were when submerged) then the connection was complete and the batteries discharged through the path of least resistance. This wasn't just rain submerging these cars, but flooding salt water. Very conductive.
Just ask the Navy submariners who survived the USS Bonefish disaster.
They've screwed us over long enough and bad enough that they surely deserve a taste of their own medicine.
It's like with very loud motorcycles. Sure, I look forward to the day that the bike crashes, and the biker is either severely injured or killed.
Dude, you're fucked up. Please seek help.
More Twoson than Cupertino
I think you mean Reginald Denny.
The gang beating Rodney King with clubs were by definition "The Man".
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
As a conservative, I look forward to the day we have affordable EVs that are not bad for the environment. With that said, the Fisker was a bad investment that now looks to be even worse.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Over a dozen parked next to each other. Plenty of others nearby did not suffer the same fate. Which seems more likely: One car caught the rest on fire or a dozen next to each other all caught fire simultaneous and the rest nearby did not?
Because it wasn't just a Cat 1 Hurricane it merged with a developing Nor'Easter.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Seriously, I want to keep SOME faith in Slashdot.
Then you shouldn't be posting political bullshit as AC.
Posts like yours are part of the fucking problem.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Explodes? This is not a movie. It caught on fire. Normal cars also catch fire. What people generally do is get out of the car the moment that happens.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
It's stupid for people to let their kids play with executive toys made of rare-earth magnets, too. But that didn't stop the government from shutting down Buckyballs.
The government didn't shut them down. Maxfield and Oberton was sued by the CPSC but the suit hasn't been settled AFAIK. They made a decision to stop selling them.
I think it's a completely prudent move, in my opinion. Not because they're unsafe, but because
A) better to exit the market and clear out the warehouse on their own terms
B) there are far too many companies producing small spherical neodymium magnets right now so they can't command a premium
C) the costs of rare earths is skyrocketing and the situation isn't likely to get any better so long as China continues to restrict output and other nation's stockpiles remain untapped
D) they don't have to roll the dice on the actual findings of the court, and continue to pay lawyers to work hard on that suit.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Either someone is really dumb and getting fired, or is getting a raise for figuring out a way to dispose of troubled units while getting insurance money.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
We have flash floods every summer in Texas. Most cars that run into a few feet of water simply stall. If instead, your car explodes and kills all the occupants, then you've got a potential death trap.
I now see why they keep playing those flash flood PSAs down here. "Turn around, don't drown. The life you save may be your own." Clearly the message hasn't reached Kyle, TX yet.
Electric, gas or hybrid, any car fully submerged in salt water is heading to the scrap yard.
Unless movies have lied to me, not the Lotus Turbo Esprit!
I am not a crackpot.
Is pretty much screwed. So these went out a with a bit more pizazz... Instead of quietly and prematurely dissolving into a pile of rust and seized parts.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I shouldn't have my taxes go to produce cars that only people like Justin Bieber and Ashton Kutcher can afford. It doesn't benefit me or the economy in the least.
Even exploding cars? That could benefit everyone (but only if people like Justin Bieber and Ashton Kutcher drive them).
So flash flooding occurs on top of hills or like all flooding in low lying areas?
Because if the latter is the case, do not drive in bad weather in low lying areas.
You've... never been to Texas, have you?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
But clicking is such hard work!
killed James Bond?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
The battery is along the middle of the car, between the left and right side seats. The electric motor is in the front. So it could be a short making the battery overheat and catch fire, or a short making something else in the front catch fire, either way it's a problem that would be tough to solve when you have a 20kWh 330V battery pack completely submerged in salt water..
In Texas you're not allowed to tell anyone "don't do that".
Slashdot's conservative base
Sorry, are you really that new here?
Your account is marginally older than this one.
Complaining about slashdot's "conservative base" is sort of like complaining about Facebooks "tireless devotion to user privacy."
Only if you never read the front page here. At least once a week there is a story on the front page that pushes the conservative agenda - just a week or two ago a front page article even cited breitbart as a source. I challenge you to find a front page story here on slashdot that has a liberal agenda instead.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You NEVER know the depth of water.
If you are a local and you know the road, you do know the depth of the water. Not down to the measurements, but well enough to judge for safety's sake.
If you've ever driven through a puddle, count yourself as an idiot. That could have been much deeper, and you wouldn't have known.
That statement should be measured in perspective. Driving a slammed-to-the-ground vehicle through puddles on unknown roads is just asking for a wreck, and yes, idiotic. Driving a vehicle that has good road clearance and is equipped for inclement weather and/or off-road conditions through puddles, while being foolish, can also quite fun. Of course these statements can be further adjusted by the traffic and surroundings of the situation.
Oh, so you know every gradual dip on every road in vicinity of your house? Doubt it. In many cases, what appears to be a puddle can be several more inches deep. And unless you brake quickly (as in slam on the brakes; not a good idea in rainy or wet conditions), hitting even 6 inches of water quickly will splash up enough water to stall the engine. Or, hey, maybe everyone else is just stupid.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Here is a Chevy Volt with a gun rack.
Yes, 'totaled' means the cost to restore the vehicle to the state or better that it was in before the incident exceeds the value of the vehicle. Still, as you mention, that doesn't mean that partial restorations aren't possible. Full restorations are as well, they just require some sort of attachment to the vehicle to justify the expense. Or access to below market rate repair - free labor from doing it yourself, for example.
A submerged car can be fixed 'pretty well', the problem is that it's really tough to fix all the electrical and corrosion problems completely, so the car may no longer be reliable.
Now, because the car at least currently operates and looks like it hasn't been flooded, you get people selling them as plain old used cars. Same as with cars that have been in serious accidents and have hidden structural damage/problems. Which is generally fraud.
I don't read AC A human right
What kind of car can handle a foot of water?
Any Jeep or equivalent. Your estimates are way too conservative.
But even a MINI Countryman can handle a foot of water... it's in the manual. It's not exactly a high-clearance vehicle.
A lot of modern cars can handle much deeper water than you would think, the tire height alone is not a good indication.
All of the things you mention have to be pretty well sealed anyway to keep various fluids within from getting out... It's all about keeping water out of any air intakes, but those are always at the top of the engine. Modern passenger compartments are usually quite well sealed as long as you are not submerged too deep for too long.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's the merger of three major storm systems, one of which happens to have been a category 1 hurricane.
Let me guess, George Clooney and his boat were caught in the middle?
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
Alternately, what about driving back-country? Sure, an electric sedan probably wouldn't be used for this, but a hybrid SUV might.
And as long as we keep deluding ourselves by thinking it's the *other* guy who is funneling taxpayer money into the hands of his buddies, we'll never change a damn thing. They each have their pet projects they're spending our money on, and they get away with it by getting us all up in arms about what the other guy is doing - blinding us to the fact that they are doing the same damn thing.
+1 Disagree
It was in africa, on a backcountry "road", and it came up to the base of the windshield. The vehicle had a snorkel for exactly this purpose.
I've seen testing - the electronics system will work for at least a few minutes, long enough to get the window down even when fully submerged. Your mileage may vary depending on details of the accident that results in submersion as well as age and make of the car and battery.
But unconscious AND the windows up is a bad way. I carry a spring punch - a hammer won't work as well under water. Useful not only for me, but if I have to be a rescuer.
I don't read AC A human right
Only if you never read the front page here. At least once a week there is a story on the front page that pushes the conservative agenda
Total bullshit.
You would have to be ignoring the countless articles on global warming, or promoting the federal controlled internet takeover that is Network Neutrality in order to make any kind of claim there is no liberal bias to Slashdot.
Just because someone managed to post a breitbart link once does not a conservative site make, I would bet that the article summary in that case made fun of what was on breitbart.
Slashdot used to be more Libertarian, but those days are long gone.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Generally speaking, I'd say that a still working vehicle isn't worthless. Totaled doesn't mean that the vehicle isn't worth anything any more - you have scrap metal if nothing else! It's just that the repair costs exceed the value of the resulting car, so in theory it's cheaper for you to just go out and buy another vehicle of the same general value and condition as the vehicle was before the accident.
I don't read AC A human right
All we know at this point is that a dozen or so were burned. The cause is unknown. Also the statement of over a DOZEN is stupid. That's like implying that a campfire can burn 10,000 trees at the same time, from campfires that went wild and set off large forest fires. One burns the next and so on, and you don't get them all igniting at the same time or from the same cause.
Water also caused a number of building fires. Should we condemn all buildings until we have fully investigated this alarming situation?
Learn to love Alaska
Slashdot is very conservative. Libertarians are the slashdot version of liberals, but are still conservative on a wider scale.
Learn to love Alaska
I'm guilty of driving through a flooded road I knew well, and I knew the car would make if I went really slowly. 3/4 of the way through, a high riding pickup approached from the other direction. The driver slowed before realizing, "My truck can do this!" and guns it, causing a big wake. I mouthed, "No!" at him, but too late, the engine's air intake sucked the water right in (I should've turned off the engine before the wake hit), and it took a new set of spark plugs to finally got the engine going again (the next day). And about 6 months later the engine seized up, That taught me but good to never drive through flooded roadways again.
Oh, so you know every gradual dip on every road in vicinity of your house? Doubt it. In many cases, what appears to be a puddle can be several more inches deep. And unless you brake quickly (as in slam on the brakes; not a good idea in rainy or wet conditions), hitting even 6 inches of water quickly will splash up enough water to stall the engine. Or, hey, maybe everyone else is just stupid.
Nice leap there. I didn't say "every" road, but in my case there are particular paths that I take multiple times every day, and yes, I do know there the dips are, gradual or sudden. I also know where the water builds during the rain, and which corners to take wider in such situations. It's called learning and it's something "everyone else" is quite capable of.
These are also short paths as well so memorizing them isn't the arduous task you make them out to be. You however, did use the term "NEVER", so don't be upset when I poke at the obvious holes in your statement. If you meant to state that it's good practice to act like you never know the depth of the water, then you should say so, as that distinction can be appreciated. But taking your personal experience and saying that it's the exact same for everyone else, bar none, is quite foolish to say the least.
Why else do you think that Texas leads in deaths at railroad crossings and in flash floods. "Oooh, lets try it and see if I can make it."
Learn to love Alaska
A few years ago my mom was picking me up during a heavy rainstorm at the local college. She was parked with the engine running as I was running to the car. Suddenly there was a wave of water that must have come over some hill over towards her passenger side. In the minute it took me to run to the car, the road went from 1-2 inches of water to 2-3 feet of water.
Needless to say I would not have been happy if the car exploded at that point.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Hasn't happened to me - don't know why you're busting my balls. I drive carefully in the rain, and I know where the water builds up and I avoid it. However, there's no denying that a lot of cars do get caught out here. We simply have a lot more country roads with water crossings where the county or the state hasn't built a bridge.
I've driven through water more than 2" deep that I knew the depth of. I could see the road beneath it, and perspective is different, but that doesn't mean it is unknowable. Local knowledge of the area also helps.
Learn to love Alaska
BTW, this was in one of the boroughs of New York and it was about 20 years ago, during just a really bad storm. No where near a river or the coast or even in a flood plain.
ie: It could not have been planned for by the driver of the car. (Whether the area should have been developed better is another story.)
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Texas leads in flash flood deaths and railroad crossing deaths. They are the same. You can just not travel when a flash flood is predicted, or you can go out and try your luck and see what happens. Also, most of the reports I heard about weren't a person on a dry road being swept away by a sudden wave tsunami style, but most were people crossing washed out bridges and such thinking they could make it, but didn't. Like trying to beat a train and not making it is "unavoidable".
Learn to love Alaska
We don't have a counter-example of FRESH water dunked Fiskars.
Salt water is a great conductor. Fresh water, not so much.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I'm from Texas, where the OP mentioned the flash floods. I've also been in regular floods. Regular floods are like the Mississippi rising 2" per hour for 24 hours. Flash floods are http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mrx/hydro/flooddef.php floods under 6 hours. So, not just the tsunami-wave style, but rains that bring a 5 hour "regular" flood is still a flash flood. Ever go camping in a flash flood area? I have. You set up camp on a ridge. The flash flood could kill you in your sleep, it's happened before.
Texas leads in deaths at train crossings and flash floods. They are the same. It's usually a case of someone doing something extraordinarily stupid (crossing in front of a train, crossing a flooded road and being swept off the road).
Learn to love Alaska
I had a friend hydro-lock his engine. He had to replace all the con rods and the crank. After labor, the work exceeded the cost of the car. Less than one cup of water through the air filter will total a running car.
Learn to love Alaska
Dude me and my friends made the mud hole with our trucks. Getting stuck is half the fun. It doesn't even count as mud unless it's a foot deep.
It's raining in the Sierra right now. WTF am I doing posting on /.? There's mud and snow in them thar hills. I wish it were Friday already.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Just hold his beer and watch. People like you ruin all the fun.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Have you ever put your hands on a motor that hydro locked? The parts are cool in a pyromaniac kind of way.
In my experience the GP is wrong. The rods might bend but mostly the head leaves the block violently.
NHRA hydrolocks are something else again. Spontaneous thermal self disassembly.
Your thinking of an engine that flooded while off.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If it's semi-automatic it's not an assault rifle. Assault rifles are rock and roll select fire by definition.
Your thinking of 'assault weapon' which is meaningless political drep.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Same as jack ass with the Veron and the salt marsh then. That car was rebuilt.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Don't let cars like these anywhere near the ocean or at low elevations. Problem solved.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Just because their is a fire to cars from a company that is having LOADS of fiscal issues, does NOT mean that it was the batteries.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
What a noble role in the world, to run off Americaâ(TM)s waste...
What people generally do is get out of the car the moment that happens.
Of course, if the fire is caused by sea water entering the battery and creating an electrical short, getting out of the car (and thereby touching the electrified sea water) might not be such a good idea either.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
... don't breathe this!
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HLM
slashdot's conservative base
I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
That's why you have to go REALLY fast.
So then, you're not new here; are we to assume that you're having an aphasia, instead?
Please cite just 3 examples for us, will you? If it's at least once a week, you should be able to trivially find 3 articles that are "pushing a conservative agenda," to support your assertion.
Same challenge I just offered to damn-registrars: cite 3 examples of articles posted in the past few weeks that push some sort of "conservative agenda" to support your point.
These cars BURNED by being put in water and you dont think that is cause for alarm? Not one or two but over a DOZEN.
I'm curious, how often do you put your car in water? And I mean IN water, not just let some of the water falling from the sky hit it?
Listen to the weather warnings (there always are) and avoid low water crossings when it's raining hard.
Yep, prudent words. Of course flash floods can come from pretty far away. It doesn't have to be raining where you are for you to run into a flash flood.
Because if the latter is the case, do not drive in bad weather in low lying areas.
So what about the people who are driving in normal, sunny weather, and get hit by a flash flood? It happens. It doesn't have to be raining where you are currently standing.
How many storms do you know that are 1000 miles across? Irene was considered one of the biggest storms in ages, and was half the size.
But really the problem was that the storm hit AT high tide, with a full moon. Yes there was some wind damage, but MOST of the damage (that I see anyways) was caused by the surge, and flooding.
Ah, it's not necessarily the choice of articles, but the comments. But the one on the Obama-funded hybrids that burned, and the comments on how hybrids are an unsafe waste of money and bashing Obama's actions and such are very conservative. Read some comments, look for "fiat", "gold", "supply side" or other trigger words.
Learn to love Alaska
Indeed. Not even EVs from other manufacturers, as demonstrated last year in Japan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/business/tsunami-reveals-durability-of-nissans-leaf.html
That's not a stall. That's hydrolock, wherein one or more cylinders fill with water. Pistons are ruined, rods turn to mush, cranks bend, and blocks turn to scrap: It's fucked.
The difference between "stall" and "fucked" is the same as the difference between the nonchalant "Oh, I just rebooted it and it's been fine" and the much more serious "The fucker is seriously bricked" or "There were visible flames coming from that equipment."
Kid-proof tablet..
The people who are none too bright are the ones who made the roads. The roads should have been elevated. In some places this has been done to good effect. In other places, not so much. Nobody should live on a flood plain any more, there's no need, because you no longer have to carry water from a river. It makes more sense to live in the hills, and use those flood plains for agriculture. Unfortunately, that's not the way things are done in a modern mercantilism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If enough cylinders take in water at the "same time" (close enough anyhow) and RPMs are not high, then it's quite possible to hydrolock without damaging the engine.
On the other hand, if you've got the revs up because you're trying to get through some mud or gravel, and you suck up water, you're gonna have a bad time.
And of course, if you've got a diesel, and you suck up water, just call it a day and start crying. They've got nearly twice the compression.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Actually I go there every year. Into what they call hill country.
If I remember right, Justin Bieber was given his as a gift. Wait.... now I know why!
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
Dude me and my friends made the mud hole with our trucks. Getting stuck is half the fun. It doesn't even count as mud unless it's a foot deep.
It's raining in the Sierra right now. WTF am I doing posting on /.? There's mud and snow in them thar hills. I wish it were Friday already.
And me still saving money for my future jeep...the shame...
So on a site with thousands of active users... a few of them are libertarian? Next time a post comes up where they're likely to post, also look for the literally hundreds of attendant "lol Randroid libertarian faget loser stupid asshole" comments that greet them.
I'm not sure how, exactly, you get from "a handful libertarians post on Slashdot, and are roundly and derisively dismissed every time they do," to "Slashdot is very conservative," to be honest. And as far as "libertarians being conservative," if you know pretty much anything about their *actual* viewpoints, you'd know that libertarian thought is a mix of "socially liberal" and "fiscally conservative," so calling them "conservatives" as if they share a monolithic platform with other so-called "conservative" parties like Republicans is both disingenuous, and stupid. Might as well start calling members of the Socialist party "stupid liberal Demoncrats" too, because they happen to share some policy goals with the mainstream "liberal" party.
I have to admit, this sounds less and less like "Slashdot is part of some vast right wing conspiracy," and more and more like, "I'm horribly offended that a small minority of people who have beliefs different than I do are able to post their opinions on a site like Slashdot. I wish they'd just shut up and just accept that anything I believe is the absolute truth, instead of challenging me and making me defend my positions using facts and logic, rather than twitter-style bumper sticker slogans."
If your ideology can't stand up to the very small minority of libertarian criticism present on /., then your ideology is reflexive, uncritical, and unthinkingly held - the problem isn't libertarians on Slashdot, it's your inability to deal with any criticism of your views.
If your ideology can't stand up to the very small minority of libertarian criticism present on /., then your ideology is reflexive, uncritical, and unthinkingly held - the problem isn't libertarians on Slashdot, it's your inability to deal with any criticism of your views.
My ideology holds up just fine. What if the real problem was that brain damage causes the libertarian thinking, but also causes damage to logic? Then anyone who argues with the libertardians will "lose" the argument, as the libertardians define a "win" as posting indefinitely when the other person eventually gives up. I've never seen a libertardian deal in logic or criticism. All I have to do to get the insults coming and "that old tired argument" and such is to mention abortion or toll sidewalks. The logic circuits in the libertardian explode, and they'll never post coherently again on that thread. It's like playing with a pet. It's just a laser pointer. You know that, but the cat thinks it's a deadly insect that must be killed at all costs. Everyone laughs at cats chasing laser pointers, like everyone laughs at the large number of libertardians that gravitate to slashdot. Probably because slashdot doesn't delete posts or ban users, and this is the last place on the Internet they haven't been banned from.
Learn to love Alaska
I can see why you've never seen it, just from reading that single sentence - you don't deal in ideas and rational thought - you deal in snarky sloganeering, and use language explicitly designed to END any chance at rational discussion, and instead provoke an argument. If your stated premise at the start of any "conversation" is "I'm going to insult you, demean you, and call you names," don't be surprised when nobody bothers to try and engage you in anything resembling a rational discussion.
I'm sure behaving like this helps you sleep soundly at night, somehow. But you should also know that it makes you look like a shallow, pseudo-intellectual fraud of the first order, as well.
But you should also know that it makes you look like a shallow, pseudo-intellectual fraud of the first order, as well.
Looks like you are seeing your reflection in your monitor.
I don't suffer fools, so yeah, when someone comes out being a jackass, I don't back down. Especially when the sophomoric punk is wrong.
Learn to love Alaska
So you let your time be wasted by trolls who you gleefully feed, all in the service of making sure "someone on the Internet knows they're wrong?"
I say again - you seem to approach any discussion where there is an attempt at rationality with bumper sticker slogans and tweet-length "zingers," which are specifically designed to shut down a conversation and turn it into a confrontation. If the other person refuses to be rational, why waste an instant of your time on them? It's clear you get some sort of thrill out of wasting your time on being trolled, but I can't fathom what it is.
It's much healthier and more constructive to simply walk away from the fool who is more interested in wasting your time than he is in discussing anything substantive. Here, I'll demonstrate the technique for you: in this case, you're the idiot wasting my time. Now, this is me, walking away from wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you. See how easy it is?
. Now, this is me, walking away from wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you. See how easy it is
No, that's you continuing to argue with what you assert to be a troll, once again contradicting yourself and proving yourself to be the lying troll.
Learn to love Alaska
I dare say that they wouldn't have to stop making the product and take the losses (some of which we'll pay for, as they write them off on their taxes) if the CPSC hadn't SUED them. Is that fair? The US government is playing the same role a patent troll or the RIAA does here.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.