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Steve Jobs Was Wrong About Touchscreen Laptops
theodp writes "Don't believe everything Steve Jobs and Tim Cook tell you, advises The Verge's Sean Hollister. Gunshy of touchscreen laptops after hearing the two Apple CEOs dismiss the technology (Jobs: 'Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical.' Cook: 'You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but those things are probably not gonna be pleasing to the user.'), Hollister was surprised to discover that Windows 8 touchscreen laptops actually don't suck and that the dreaded 'Gorilla Arm Syndrome' did not materialize. 'The more I've used Windows 8, despite its faults, the more I've become convinced that touchscreens are the future — even vertical ones,' writes Hollister. 'We've been looking at this all wrong. A touchscreen isn't a replacement for a keyboard or mouse, it's a complement.' Echoing a prediction from Coding Horror's Jeff Atwood that 'it is only a matter of time before all laptops must be touch laptops,' Hollister wouldn't be surprised at all if Apple eventually embraces-and-extends the tech: 'Microsoft might have validated the idea, but now Apple has another chance to swoop in, perfecting and popularizing the very interface that it strategically ridiculed just two years ago. It wouldn't be the first time. After all, how many iPad minis come with sandpaper for filing fingers down?'"
It's very possible that the reason we think touchscreen laptops are a bad idea has nothing to do with Steve Jobs or Apple.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
There's a ton of stuff that's basically useless in a non-touch environment (Launchpad, I'm looking at you). It's obvious Apple is planning for it eventually.
" I'm not going to touch-type 70 words per minute on a touchscreen keyboard. But when I'm in the cramped quarters of a train, plane, or standing in a line — say, when the only thing standing between a critical email and its recipient is a few dozen words and a tap of the button marked "Send" — I can grab that Windows 8 laptop by its hinged section, one hand on either side of the screen, and tap out that message with my thumbs."
You have to be kidding me. That is the most ridiculous way to type anything on a laptop. Ever.
He could be wrong, and he could change his mind.
He's not Yahweh - think of him as KRS-ONE - full of contradictions but usually miles ahead of the competition.
"Don't believe everything Steve Jobs and Tim Cook tell you, advises The Verge's Sean Hollister.
Interviewer: "Hey Steve, what do you think about Touchscreen laptops?"
Steve:
Interviewer: "That's amazing Steve. How long do you think before they go on sale?"
Steve:
Interviewer: "Steve, a lot of people seem to think you're wrong. Care to comment?"
Steve:
Interviewer: "Well, that's it for today! Tune in again tomorrow when we ask Abraham Lincoln what he thought about the play he went to!"
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Touchscreens have been around for decades. If pointing your arm at a vertical surface was such a hot idea for 8 hours a day, why have we not seen touchscreens being used everywhere for the last 30 years? NEC had an excellent touchscreen in the mid 80s. This isn't new technology and writing articles presenting it as new tech doesn't make it new.
Gorilla arm exists. Fatigue exists. Keyboards and other stuff are better input devices than touchscreens and probably always will be, except for the times you *can't* have a keyboard or mouse/tablet/trackball/etc., like a factory floor, restaurant, bar, hospital cart in sugery, etc, where dirt, grime, bodily fluids are a threat to operation, or where ease of portability trumps having a better input device, like tablets or phones (styluses are passe).
If touch was so superior for every day use, we'd already be using it.
--
BMO
Microsoft never ceases to amaze me at their skill in manipulating the press, reviewers of tech, and a certain group of power users into pushing all of this crap down our throats. I take the word of the Independent Software Vendors that have chastised Windows 8 time and time again better than a bunch of pundits working for a bunch of sell-out bloggers and news agencies. Microsoft is a dying empire, with Windows 2000/Office 2000 being it's peak. Ever since then it's been down hill with the occasional plateau. I'm just waiting for someone else to come in and do better. Right now if you're looking to build a whitebox machine and load it up with the latest and greatest, you're going to be full of disappointment.
Sig: I stole this sig.
holding your arm out for long periods of time causes a lot of strain on the muscles. i would gather that ppl who use these touchscreen laptops will after a while start growing muscle in their main arm. kindof like ppl who fap too much.
Got my son a Panasonic Toughbook with Touchscreen and noticed how he and his friends wove Touchpad and Touchscreen actions together. I tried to always impress weaving Keyboard shortcuts actions and Mouse use to get things done faster. The improvement is not enough to get frontpage news but to say its useless is like everything else that suffers a slow adoption, ie People are slow to change sometimes when it suits them (lazy), even Steven Jobs. SIN
I don't even see the mouse as complementing the keyboard. The lack of accelerator keys on web sites/browsers is frustrating, the inability to alt-tab out of the various VMs and VNCs is frustrating. Touch is going in the wrong direction.
Here's the direction computers should be going in: Intelligent User Interfaces. Computers should guess the next noun/object or verb/action and list them in descending likelihood -- kind of like IntelliSense. Quick keyboard commands 1-9 or first-letter/auto-complete select out of the prioritized list. We're so far away from that that file selector dialogs don't even default -- let alone remember to! -- sort reverse chronological. (Nor do they remember last directory, cross-application)
OK, mouse is good for panning 2D (Google Maps), and zooming and sliders. Maybe there's something touch is better at than both mouse and keyboard, but I don't know what that might be.
First priority is to fix keyboard UI.
My toughbook had a touchscreen. In some cases using the touchscreen was quicker than using the shitty trackpad. I would like it on any laptop I owned even if I didn't use it very often. The side benefit of having a (necessarily) tougher screen is nice too.
Until you've actually used a touch/laptop hybrid device, don't go knocking it. When I say "use", I don't mean "try", I mean actually used it for day-to-day tasks for a couple weeks. Not "poked one in the mall and didn't know how to do everything right away, so I gave up," or worse yet, "saw a picture or video online and haven't even tried one in person." Spare me the "but I know I won't like it," because until you've actually used the device, you don't know.
The overwhelming opinion of people I know who have actually used these devices that are neither a tablet nor a laptop, but really a bit of both, is that they work well and are not just a gimmick. New things can take some getting used to. That doesn't mean they're bad.
Anything that forces you to break concentration and shift into another mode kills productivity. It's why mice have been so hard to replace. I can easily use a mouse and keyboard at the same time. Having to reach up to do an operation would seriously piss me off and cut my productivity in half. For everyday playing people love gimmicks but I think people will get tired of it fast. It's why i hated to see Windows go down that road. If vendors start requiring it to use software I'm going to have to find different software. He said they were a bad idea and I have to agree, he didn't say they wouldn't sell some before people got sick of them.
Next thing you know, they're going to be inventing 'skin' for androids, to let androids feel...
Boy, we've NEVER been down this road before, have we?
Sorry, the madness of the cycle is stopping. I'm the end, that I can promise you.
The Surface Pro does include touch support - 10 point multitouch, in fact. It happens to also have an active digitizer to support pen input. It can do both.
The fact that you didn't know that implies that you really have no idea what you're talking about.
It's funny how the criticisms of touch get brushed aside and people like you and SINternet insult the people criticizing.
"You haven't used it long enough!"
"You're a luddite!"
"You're lazy!"
"It's really great, you're just old!"
"Look, this 3 year old can open a program! If you don't like it, you're stupider than a 3 year old!"
And on and on it goes.
Good job selling us on this. Really. Good. Job.
> New things can take some getting used to
Hey, this isn't marmite in this sandwich. It smells like shit! Hey, wait...
"Just take smaller bites!"
--
BMO
The reaction time to type can be slow on an iPad
The apple software jail sucks
But with open source and similar interface to the iPad it should be fine, Linux just needs to get with the program
Touch is better than a mouse, except for precision stuff drawing in high fidelity
Laptops Touchscreen About Wrong Was Jobs Steve. Article title backwards. Funny part is that it comes out pretty much the same meaning either way. Steve Jobs Was Wrong About Touchscreen Laptops.
So you're suggesting that we should never have transitioned from horses and buggies to motor cars, because driving a car takes some getting used to? The fact of the matter is that if you haven't used something, you can't make an informed opinion of it. You can have an opinion, and you're welcome to have that opinion, but it won't be an informed opinion.
I find I touch the screen of my Windows laptop, and get frustrated when I realized it isn't a touch screen. But that's NOT because a vertical touch screen is any good. It's because I'm so use to using tablets now that I EXPECT it to be there on Windows boxes.
But wouldn't it be better if it wasn't a laptop form factor at all?!?
Do you really want to take the keyboard with you? If you're after portability wouldn't you make do with the on screen keyboard when on the go, and a full sized keyboard on the dock?! As it is you have a crap keyboard when at home and on the move.
That form factor sucks for touch, touch the screen near the bottom edge and your the part of your hand that dandles down hits the keyboard.
The screen is landscape, but sometimes I want it portrait! Yet the keyboard shape is landscape only.
Trackpads, WHY? Yes I know Windows classic needs it, but it's just wasted space, weight, and they're completely unusable, even for Windows work. Fix the damn software to work with touch.
So is he really saying Jobs was wrong (Tim Cook is Sculley Mk II who cares what he thinks)? Or is he saying Windows sucks less if it also does touch?
Hur dur Microsoft is awesome 3
It's true. Windows 8 has ruined non-touch monitors for me forever. It's just so easy and natural to want to reach up and touch the monitor now. In fact I get very frustrated when it doesn't respond. All screens should be touch.
Full of apologising for crack-brained-isms of Windows8.
I for one cannot imagine using a touch-the-screen solution on the desktop or laptop.
On the other hand (er, so to speak) I am seriously looking forward to non-contact gesture technologies like Leap Motion.
Reaching forward and touching an exact spot with your finger (eg an Icon, a screen-control widget) fundamentally DOES NOT MAKE SENSE for anything other than a tablet solution.
On the flipside, reaching out towards your screen for a broad-scale gesture (swipe to move an app the the other screen, maximise an app, finger-zoom or select an area, control 3D space {google earth, etc}, shuffling a bunch of images onscreen, etc) seem completely natural. Touch-screen-ing an 82 inch display makes sense, but at desktop scales that's like sitting 3 inches from your monitor - and even then it really only makes sense because you're now using that display as an advanced information kiosk not as your personal computer (different interaction rates, different interaction precision for common usage).
Having said that, there's no sane reason why in the future we will not see our displays using BOTH interaction methods (ie fully capable of direct-touch as well as Gestures in 3D Space). But I'm also sure they (er, the main computer/OS) will include some kind of basic voice control as well.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
...and of all things, it's an opinion that Windows is great. Why, exactly, is is posted here?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
"At 1080p on a small screen, Windows 8 needs pinch-to-zoom for the entire operating system"
A true Scotsman would love touch laptops.
I use two toughbook laptops at work. It's actually really handy. You're driving down the road and need to get dispatch notes on your call, just peck at the screen and you've got them, another peck at the screen and you're back to mapping. Peck at the screen and you're on scene/transporting/at destination, which is epic when the radios are saturated/down/out of range.
More like, should we transition from horses and buggies to llamas and rowboats?
Because that's what Microsoft is now expecting us to do with Windows 8.
Anyone remember the Vadem Clio/Sharp TriPad? I do. For all it's clunkiness, if it wouldn't had such a problem with audio quality that would have been my first "tablet" (back in 2000 or 2001). [Oblig. wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadem_Clio ] The whine during media playback killed it for me, and I wasn't willing to settle for the price so I ended up returning it. Other than that, and WinCE, it was a very useful device.
I have had the ASuS TF101 plus keyboard now for about a year and I still like it, even if my daughter has taken it over. Plus how many people run the iPad in landscape/vertical using a special case as a stand? I know I do. I can touch type pretty quick on it too (though I prefer it more of a slant then strictly vertical, probably about 60 degrees up from the table). And don't forget about the Lenovo S10-3t convertible? It was the first "laptop" with a touch screen that I've used, and even though the 1024x600 display kills the usability IMO, I still have a hard time putting it up on eBay because I find the touch screen form factor useful in a pinch.
The bottom line is the touch screen laptop is a very usable configuration and I'm surprised it's taken this long to see more of them. I think an almost perfect machine would be something like a macbook air (either 11 or 13 inch), with a quad core i7 (or comparable), 16 gb of RAM, an iPad 3 retina display w/touch for the display, a detachable keyboard (ala Transformer) or possibly rotating keyboard (Vadem Clio, Lenovo Yoga). It should also have 5+ hours of battery life and not get uncomfortably hot. I don't ask for much. :)
. 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Am I being so unreasonable to expect one computer to perform as well as another computer?
I know the Windows box sellers are trying to pretend that Windows boxes are computers and tablet are toys, but that's not real. My Transformer Infinity is no toy. It's far more powerful than my Acer One laptop running Windows 7.
Is one food and one a computer? Or are they really just both computers?
My comment wasn't so much insult as its the reality we see all the time. I'm 50+ and get annoyed when my peers expect someone younger to do the "research/computing" for them. I take almost any opportunity to embarrass the hell out of them. They along with others are lazy like those who can't meet lifting requirements and duck out of "Heavy" work but expect the same pay. Quit your whining and learn what to do with those devices other than buying them for bragging rights and barely get off the home screen. SIN
I like my touchscreen phone, but I hate the fingerprints on it. As for my computer, I clean my laptop screen and external monitor once a week to get rid of all that dust and cr*p that gets on it. The idea of going with my sweaty fingers all over it gives me goosebumps. How would I dare to show anything to my boss or co-workers in my computer if the screen is full of s**t?
Lies, damn lies, and statistics...
Microsoft says it has sold more than 40 million Windows 8 licenses, but the information is worthless in absence of key data the company won't divulge.
We don't know because Microsoft isn't saying. We don't know how many of the 40 million licenses come from low-cost upgrades, from volume licensing sales that kick in automatically, or from direct sales to consumers. And we don't know how many of the 40 million licenses are sitting on systems that have yet to find a buyer.
So why won't Microsoft provide a breakdown? What is it hiding? Its silence speaks volumes or, perhaps more accurately, low volumes.
http://www.informationweek.com/software/windows8/microsofts-windows-8-numbers-meaningless/240142865?cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Steve is dead, the company moves on...
If you look at MacOSX on a laptop, it uses the big multi-touch mousepad instead of a touch screen. Win8 needs a touchscreen because they put a tablet UI on a PC. Different OS, Different requirements.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
My smartphone may be different but let's look at long-term use of touchscreens in both business and recreation settings.
For these examples, I'll use Point Of Sale devices for business and slot machines for recreation.
Any of the two DEFECTS can occur after long term touchscreen use:
* Miscalibration: touching in one area activates another area. This even if the device was still in proper calibration earlier. This can include either touching one button and another button activates OR with the stylus type signature, the signature appears above or below the actual position where the stylus is being used to sign the signature line.
* Dead spots--touching the same area multiple times still results in no action. (However, 26 times touching the same spot triggered a Watchdog Reset condition on one specific Aristocrat "Money Honey" slot machine--after the machine went blank and reset the Watchdog Reset message was visible on screen and the game reverted right back to the pick-a-clover bonus round where the reset occurred BUT THE SPOT WAS STILL DEAD and remained unresponsive.)
Let's see if there are any failures on these touchscreen monitors and touchscreen laptops running Windows 8 before outright calling them a success. Miscalibration or dead spots both count as failures.
I have one of the Gateway 6971 all-in-ones. I paid the $15 or whatever to get the Windows 8 upgrade. My computer before this one was a 24 inch iMac I'd had for 5 years. I have to say that I don't regret the change at all. When it comes to reading a website, I'm more likely to reach up and scroll than even use the scroll wheel on the mouse. When I'm playing music or watching videos, I don't have to be sitting at my computer desk. All I have to be able to do is touch the screen. The article is right. It complements the mouse and keyboard and allows for more relaxed use of the computer.
"A touchscreen isn't a replacement for a keyboard or mouse, it's a complement."
Gee, thanks for listening to feedback from the community for the last few years.
The market has already spoken on this, clamshell UMPC *don't sell* in volume. Smartphones with the slideout keyboards likewise, are not big sellers.
So that market is niche at best.
Actual usage statistics from statcounter did a comparison with this year and 3 years ago. Now tell me how Windows 8 is the best selling OS ever!
Windows 7 was popular and already registered for like 2 months before launch as people were on the RCs and passing along eval copies. So these users did not buy all at once which was why Windows 8 had a higher spike, but Windows 7 had more users overall who just purchased a key for the RC copies and Windows update turned them into the full versions.
http://saveie6.com/
We've been touching monitors for quite a long time without any issue. It's been completely unnecessary up until now, but I doubt there will be many issues with monitors finally responding to user touch and doing something useful in return.
-- Dave
up 12 days, 22:30, 2 users, load averages: 993.20, 994.21, 994.56
*makes note to limit user processes...
I work in medical and we've been using touch screens for years. The radiology tech. who took your last xray and sent it to PACS might have done it without ever touching the keyboard. Of course Vertical touch screens work; they've just been very expensive for quite some time!
This article reads like something a cheerleader on Microsoft's payroll wrote. It it is, that should be disclosed. I am not impressed with Windows 8 at all.
That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
After all, how many iPad minis come with sandpaper for filing fingers down.
I've been using an iPad mini daily for about three weeks now, and I've had this subject raised by smartass coworkers and passers-by. I couldn't find any official smart covers for it in stores, so I made a "smartass cover" out of glue, magnets and sandpaper. It's a lot cheaper than paying $40 for an official cover that doesn't even include sandpaper! Now I tell them the iPad 3 (which I was using daily until I got the mini) should include sandpaper so you can grip it with one hand and type with the other.
1% market share in 2009 is less absolute users than 1% in 2012. This says windows 7 had a larger part of the pie in 2009 than windows 8 has in 2012, but doesn't indicate how big the pie is. In 2009 iOS wasn't included in desktop OS share. Now it seems to be for some reason. The article you posted has several other mitigating factors including faster relative uptake.
Netmarketshare shows similiar data without iOS too.
But 2009 was in the worst recession since the 1930s and many people were terrified the financial market would still freeze still. IN that case keeping older PCs make more sense so there is alot of factors. Still it sold as many like myself were looking to dump Vista and felt XP to be too obsolete and old to use at that time unless you really had too.
http://saveie6.com/
I wouldn't be surprised if 8 was slower to get going than 7. There is some good stuff in there for power users, but once you install a start menu (of which there are many), it ends up being just a fast-booting win7 for everyday use.
They are putting in some good ideas, but I'd prefer they still treated desktop users as first-class citizens. I like the idea of having the option to save your email settings and messages, contacts, calendar, desktop settings, and applications (albeit only the windows store ones) in the cloud, so that setting up another system takes far less effort. I chose the option to sign into the OS in the same way I sign in to my android phone, and a lot of stuff is set up for me. The notification system has been modernized at least, but I sure do wish they could "desktopize" all the metro apps for users like me, and having the OS be modal and able to run in tablet OR desktop mode, and you could switch whenever you felt like it, would have been the right approach IMO.
Pretentious "gadget" reviewers who think they have the pulse on technology and know what's best for you? He's basically advocating a UI paradigm that will never be as fast or as efficient as a keyboard and mouse, but because he's either a Microsoft apologist or someone looking for page hits he's going to give them the benefit of the doubt and actually convince himself that touchscreens on laptops really do work. I'm guessing he also loves his Surface RT and thinks everyone was also wrong about that too. He probably thinks it's tanking because people don't understand it like he does.
The article seemed to really be talking more about gestures than touch controls in terms of touch making sense on laptops.
I think there's an inherent gap between touch and mice/trackpads for computer use, and the reason is hit target size.
To support touch you have to have targets way larger than a mouse cursor based system does. How can you really design a UI that is good for both users?
Gestures, sure I can see that... although even there I still think doing them from a device like a trackpad makes as much sense (granted the article claims he prefers doing them on screen).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"You haven't used it long enough!"
"You're a luddite!"
"You're lazy!"
"It's really great, you're just old!"
"Look, this 3 year old can open a program! If you don't like it, you're stupider than a 3 year old!"
And on and on it goes.
Good job selling us on this. Really. Good. Job.
Um, yeah, except he didn't say any of those things except the first one. Give it an honest try before evaluating its worth. What's wrong with that?
I tried and guess what? Touch works. I like it and find myself happy to use it in the appropriate environments, (portable computing). On desktop screens, it makes less sense, but I can see its value in certain applications. It's just another tool. Why so much fear of another way of interacting with your gear?
Maybe you're responding to those other arguments the OP didn't bring up because they are hitting some nerve in you..?
Some people also kicked up a fuss before accepting the GUI after having become expert in running an OS from the command line.
There is certainly a future for touch-screen laptops, but no one knows exactly how it would be. Microsoft's surface is, by all accounts, shiny and useless.
By Useless I mean it's not as the technology was meant to be used, (and breaks within the first few days). Apple will probably come out with a touch-screen augment for laptops and desktops sometime in the future, but neither the technology nor design is appropriate yet. Touchscreen has some distinct advantages and distinct disadvantages; just because Microsoft put two things together, doesn't mean they did it well. Like the Toaster / Fridge combination, it's entirely possible to do well, but just duct taping a toaster to a fridge won't necessarily make it more useable, or give people any reason to use it over distinct Toasters and Fridges.
It's just like the basic keyboard design, many people have tried to replace QWERTY, but none have caught on. Apple, at least under Steve Jobs was known for doing things Right, or not doing them at all. We don't need the Surface to tell us that there is a future with touchscreen lap/desktops, it's should be obvious to most people that there IS a good way to put them together. Just what the best way to do this is a completely different story.
So you're suggesting that we should never have transitioned from horses and buggie blah blah blah
No. He's suggesting that there has actually been usability testing done of both inexperienced and experienced users. This showed that Windows 8 touch interface is slower and more confusing than other interfaces both touch and desktop. That is simple scientific evidence. We can sit here wanking off about theoretical user interface design advantages, but when the numbers tak and we disagree we are wrong. Winodws 8 is crap. When people on the internet tell stories that "well actually it's pretty good" then we know that they are mostly just repeating Microsoft talking points under the instructions fo their bosses.
Cars are mostly superior to horses.
It's your claim that keyboards and mice are buggywhips. Prove it. Prove that direct experience of those who have been poking and swiping at Windows 8 since the dev preview on desktops are wrong.
--
BMO
Through my work, I get almost every tablet/thingy that comes out. I got the Surface RT the day it came out because of this, and have been using it since as my replacement for my Nexus 7, eee Netbook (ubuntu), and in tandem with iPad mini.
I see all this shit on Slashdot about how much W8 sucks, and it's true, for desktop. If you took the "desktop" mode of W8, and put JUST THAT on desktop with a start menu, then it's solid (just a win7 upgrade). If you take W8 Metro (or whatever it's called now) and use JUST THAT, it's about 80% of what you want on a tablet. I say 80% because the gestures, while powerful, are really unintuitive.
As it is, I have to say, as someone who actually USES the Surface, it's a nice device, and Metro is actually rather pleasant to look at (yes, there's no apps for it). In addition, the gestures are nice, if you learn them. And, in addition to all of that, having a "desktop" mode on the tablet (the keyboard includes a trackpad) is also nice, although it feels disconnected. I think Microsoft hasn't gotten it perfect, but I think they are on the right track.
As a side note, I don't know why there's so many pro MS articles on Slashdot lately..
Windows 7, like XP has the advantage of being mature and super stable. Windows 7 has been around since Vista and is not as experimental. Yes, there are still some issues in networking that XP does better with AD and com port access, but Windows 8 has been known to freeze up or exhibit some issues because of its newness.
On my 2007 laptop it only runs in 1024 x 768 as the perfectly fine aero drivers for Windows 7 are not 8 compatible. On my newer phenomII desktop I am typing this in I experienced some glitches with GPU acceleration in Firefox and IE 10. There as a bug in SWTOR but I do not remember what that an update fixed.
Users report it can reboot endlessly too. For corps who like stability Windows 7 is a winner and so is for professionals. Windows blue/9 next year if rumor is true with an annual update will mature it more.
http://saveie6.com/
Is there a formatting issue on the mobile site because i am seeing some duplicated second paragraphs. Or is everyone in this thread typing on a touchscreen?
when its not your only option, we have a handful of them scattered about at work and yea, its actually handy to just point at something, especially when there is a group involved, which is the situation we use them in.
still not going to give up the ole keyboard and mouse, but touch screens can have uses on desktop/laptops
What about those of us whose electrical conductivity are beyond the norm? There are people that cannot use touchscreens with accuracy due to their bodies own electrical impulses (I can't wear a digital watch, for instance, or a smartphone with a touch screen for more than a few seconds before it becomes unusable)). Are these people going to be forced to adapt to a world where they cannot use computers due to the propagation of a trend technology, where people are led to believe the next thing coming down the pipe is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Simple truth is: if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Personally, I have as much use for a touchscreen, and Windows 8, as I would a second anus. And can you imagine trying to play WoW or anything more complicated than a flash-based game on a touchscreen? Are these people insane? Oh, wait . . . we're talking about Microsoft here, so of course they are. . .
We transitioned to cars because there was a great many advantages to do so - speed, load carrying capacity, etc, etc.
What are the advantages of using a touchscreen over a keyboard/mouse in everyday situations?
Mobile? Well sure, if you're wandering around and you want to quickly tap something out or go through a few apps, there's a good advantage to a touch screen.
But at the office? I don't know. The time taken to take your hands off the keys, reach out and tap something... is that quicker than getting the mouse and clicking? I don't really know. I'd suspect that that with my setup (2 x 24" monitors) it's going to be slower. And I'd bet that if I was forced to use a touchscreen in an office situation where I still had a keyboard, I'd be learning a lot more keyboard shortcuts quick-smart.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
This. I have Win8 on my Fujitsu T5010, and love touch scrolling with it. So much more natural. I've touched my office monitor and my wife's laptop screen a couple times now without thinking. I love having a convertible laptop/stylus/touch PC (the T5010 has a 'dual digitizer'; the active stylus digitizer is awesome for my comics, but the touchscreen is better for games/surfing/reading), and I'm never switching back to an ordinary laptop.
Oh, and by the way, I'm a web developer who has written thousands of lines of code on a convertible tablet pc. That's what the keyboard is for.
I got one of these for work the first day they came out. Here's how I use it:
* At the office, I use it like a traditional Windows laptop, running virtual machines and whatnot for development.
* On the train, I turn it into a tablet and read books, play games, read the newspaper and magazines. There's a great PDF reader and a Kindle app. Also, I use it in a singing group I belong to for my sheet music.
In short, it's a laptop plus an iPad.
Also, I've had zero problems with smudging on the screen. I've had the device for over a month and have never cleaned the screen. Maybe I'm just super clean? I keep it in a soft case made for a Mac Air, so maybe sliding it in and out of that case cleans it off.
Free Conference Call -- No Spam, High Quality
IMHO, you are jumping off the cliff and they are not. They've/I've made the good choice of not carrying the keyboard with the tablet when on the go. I may also plug in a full keyboard at some point, since I resent having the 'dock' part of my Tablet having a compromised keyboard.
IMHO, you and Microsoft are jumping off the cliff. You for your own reasons, Microsoft because Ballmer failed to force the Office people to deliver a proper touch interface, thus crippling Metro and Windows 8 with a laptop layout. That is a consequence of incompetence at leadership level, rather than a Windows 8 failing. It's crippled because Ballmer's just not good at CEO.
IMHO, the most important thing for on the go computing is the *on-the-go* part, and on screen keyboards work good enough for software & OS's that work properly with them. You are entitled to disagree, but you'll end up in a niche market.
But Windows does need to support touch, because it's expected to support touch. Just like every other popular computer does these days.
So now all applications in the future will have big, wasteful interfaces in order to accommodate fingers. It's bad enough with websites that do this. What's the point in having a high resolution if everything is going to be 200% bigger.
I've just installed Win 8 on a VM, and it doesn't boot any faster than Win 7, even after repeated boots. YMMV, of course.
The various gestures are a pain to execute if the real screen extends past what Win 8 imagines the screen to be -- namely the VM's window. I'd go as far as calling Metro interface's mouse gestures useless on a windowed VM because of that. For the desktop mode, the number of applications people typically use is very small anyway, so you might as well throw the common shortcuts on the desktop and be done. For other things, keyboard shortcuts are OK.
Win 8 seems rather unpolished. The settings are haphazardly scattered between the Settings App and Control panel. I don't mind the apps, they look nice and fluid, but they won't even let me have their own kool-aid if I have to go to desktop mode just to do the basics. I was expecting that every application that came with Windows would be ported to Metro. That MS hasn't done that pretty much dismisses the whole Metro exercise in my mind. Fucking stick to it or go home, MS, mmkay?
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
IOW: I'll check if I can return the damn system builder DVD for a refund, it's that kind of a letdown.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
There are something like 20K Apps for Windows Phone 7 out already that were supposed to be able to run just fine on Windows Phone 8, I thought you could also run those on Surface as well - is that the case?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You only think that because you don't have to use the damn touchscreen continuously while sitting down.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Grounding wrist-strap and a long dangling cord.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why stop at 10? I can think of 21 points on my male body to poke the screen with.
The touchscreen on the NintendoDS is nice but you don't use it for everything. Back in the day, I'm told that light pens provided a touchscreen interface that was functionally equivalent to what you get on these laptops, or there were (and still are) external tablets, but for most things both really suck in comparison to keys and mice. Then there's piles of other devices with touch input so I've got no idea how you can seriously assert that the HP touchsmart was anything new. Is it some kind of joke that went wrong?
I personally wouldn't make use of any touchscreen features on a laptop I am using. I personally find my use-cases divide neatly into two segments -
1) Quick, fast, light useage that is suitable for a touchscreen; this gets done on a Android smartphone because waiting for windows or Linux to boot, even from hibernation, in order to read e-mail on the go is silly. Also good because I might want to respond to e-mail through any of phone call, text message, or another e-mail depending on urgency, or adding to phone's calendar. Boots fast, runs smoothly. Replacing any of this use with a laptop touchscreen would be a downgrade.
2) Long, difficult, complex usage with a mouse and keyboard; this gets done on Windows or Linux depending on if I need specific Linux or Windows only applications. I can't imagine using a touchscreen for high-precision work or for programming or for long-duration work where I'm typing away for hours on end. Replacing any of this use with a laptop touchscreen would be a downgrade.
Basically, I don't personally ever have a use-case where having a Windows/Mac/Linux-running Laptop with touchscreen would be valuable or useful to me compared to the other options Maybe it's aimed at a different target market, but I'm pretty skeptical about long-term viability of the market for these devices. Perhaps I will develop eyesight problems and deteriorating manual dexterity and desperately need a larger screen with bigger touchscreen keys than my phone has in 50 years - but by then I suspect that touchscreens will be as old-fashioned interfaces as punch cards.
Do not want touchscreen. Do not want finger prints. Do not want to type on touch screen. Do not want arm fatigue. Do not want gestures either (with mouse or camera input).
...why did he give us the iPad then ? ...why is OS X getting iPad features ?
Trust me, we will see iPad and MacBook merging as soon as OS X is fully ported to ARM.
devices that are neither a tablet nor a laptop, but really a bit of both
A tablet is a laptop's retarded cousin, you're really limited on the things you can actually do, combining both is a bad thing not a good one.
"Because people actually dislike having to poke at a vertical surface all stupid day."
That is the WHOLE point you are not doing it the whole day, you are doing it in completnt of the rest. You keep reading but misunderstanding it.
One Guy Disagrees With Steve Jobs About Touchscreen Laptops, Either Could Turn Out To Be Wrong
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Anyone who's had a Psion 5 and stared on in disbelieve when the rest of the world went crazy over the (in comparison) absolutely useless Palm organizer had incontrovertible proof literally in their hands that a touch screen on a keyboard device is GREAT. Those who think that's different from a laptop - it is not, you used the Psion 5 just like a tiny laptop, only that instead of a mouse you touched the screen - with a pen, but that was okay. Working with this setup (back in 1997!!!), directly touching what you wanted to on the screen, felt MUCH MUCH MUCH more natural than the mouse-keyboard combo. So at least to ME this article is no news at all.
Psion 5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5
Palm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_(PDA)
I have no problem with touch displays and people purchasing them. Everyone should be able to make their own decisions and purchase whatever works for them.
I do however have a big problem with metro and everything it stands for.
The only way to obtain metro apps is thru vendor curated environment with full editorial control over what is or is not available. This is unacceptable. Enabling such aggregations of power will ultimatly lead to abuse (See shit apple is doing to shut down apps which compete with their interests or do not meet their decency standards) Such structures are ultimatly dangerous to a free society if vendors and content ultimatly get their way and eventually succeed in locking down the general purpose computer.
Severe limitations regarding display of multiple metro apps on screen makes metro unusable to replace "windows" on large displays.
Fads and memes of the day are not "the future" as Hollister asserts... no matter how much coolaid has been consumed.
No Golden Girls theme?
Oh, man, you're ruining it for me!!
I don't see an advantage of this to normal laptops. Only possible advantage over a tablet - you can use a real keyboard as opposed to the virtual one that appears on the screen, which may be more comfortable to type, but not if it's a laptop form factor.
Only thing - in more recent laptops, I've seen the touchpad come in the way of typing, and unlike previous laptop models, the stupid thing can't even be disabled, despite forum hunts. Sticking a mouse in an USB port? Nothing. No PS/2 ports, so I can't stick a PS/2 mouse in it, even if I had one. I got 5 of these in the office, and everybody complains how typing is a pain since the cursor automatically moves when the palm accidentally touches the touchpad. Nothing that I do will disable them. Previous models would have a separate switch to disable the damn thing, but not any more. Only other solution, which I haven't done, is attach an external keyboard to the other USB port i.e. have a docking strip like solution. This would be the only advantage of such a solution - get rid of trackpads altogether, and use either the touchscreen or the mouse.
"Hollister was surprised to discover that Windows 8 touchscreen laptops actually don't suck" - stopped reading here.
Really? Windows 8 sucks. Touchscreen laptops suck, Jobs was right here. Laptops are used for work, while Touchscreens are good only for entertainment... Hollister must be kind of a retard not a discoverer.
Or this article is sponsored by another Steve - Ballmer, who faces firing if (when) Windows 8 fails.
Android, Asus transformer.. came out before, so ms wasn't first
Ugh Ugh Ugh!
Me work computer!
Me poke screen!
Ugh Ugh!
Touchscreen laptop interface suck. Actually mouse-icon-menu are bad and outdated, but touchscreen laptop interface is worse. Just like voice interface suck on laptop and desktop while it's cool in cellphone.
" but I do not remember what that an update fixed."
Huh?
1) As a pointing device, the fingertip's not terribly precise. Thus, for anybody doing location-sensitive work, the touchscreen's merely something that adds cost and complexity to the laptop.
2) Middle-aged eyes and/or large-screen (or second) monitors. I don't want to have to get close to my desk and lean forward to poke the screen every time I want to do something. It's also way easier to move something a few inches near my hand than having to pretend I'm driving the Enterprise.
i hate touch screens, it's stupid technology. just because you can doesn't mean you should. save the touch screens for phones please.
if somebody tries to touch your screen with Naked Fingers you pull out your slide rule quickly calculate the need strike force and then SNAP THEIR HANDS OFF AT THE WRIST (with your slide rule of course)
seriusly this is why they have those very cheap styluses
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
It's possible that touch screens are an improvement over the unspeakably shit trackpads most laptops come with. The same isn't necessarily true for Macs. My personal guess, though, is that Hollister is just trolling.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
All commenters who have used a Windows 8 or Windows RT touchscreen, raise your hand ... I thought so. Until you've spent some time (real time, like a few days) with a Windows 8/RT device, you're just speculating.
Windows 8/RT touchscreen computers (Surface, laptop) are far better devices than Windows 7 laptops with touchpads or those silly eraser things. And once you've spent some time with Windows 8 touchscreen, you'll not want to go back.
And for those unhappy with typing on a screen, get rid of all your iPhones and Androids.
This comment written on a Surface RT.
But this guy is full of crap.
And he likes SMALL touch pads?
He says i should plug in a mouse when i need precision?
He lauds simple applications that can be used with touch, but then concludes that windows legacy app compatibility is important and suggests you go with the 8gb RAM upgrade for your tablet. Hello, tablet apps get by with 256mb.
Put it this way, i have an ipad that mostly collects dust, and a macbook air i use all the time. Even if it had a touch screen, would that help me with coding? With excel? With anything? No.
And he says that all laptops will have to have touch, but also that touch shouldnt be used on anything over 11 inches?!
If that heralded sage of technology, user experience and public reaction Sean Hollister of Verge says touchscreen laptops are a success, who am I to argue? After all, how often was Jobs right about those things? And Sean Hollister has been a tech writer for what, two weeks?
"Researchers have documented usability problems with vertical touch surfaces for decades."
Laptop screens are horizontal, wtf is he talking about.
"On a tablet or smartphone, too, the typing surface and touch surface are almost always on the same plane"
They are not on the same plane, they are one single thing, as you type on the screen.
Word alert! Word alert!
GUNSHY
Pencil it into your dictionary. And use it well.
Touchscreens on laptops will probably take off because the trackpads and the little rubber pointers are cumbersome to many folks. I don't know if the touchscreen will replace them but it will definitely improve the overall experience.
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
I don't think they ever know what they are talking about.
I think the point was supposed to be that if you already own a tablet, you don't have to buy a netbook.
If I have the base of my 13 laptop sticking into my abdomen such that my ribs are hanging over it [...] I can get the screen a little past vertical
Which is exactly why I bought a 10 inch laptop instead of a 13 inch laptop.
Wow, what's up with prolific posters like you and BMO getting facts so wrong but still getting modded up? Slashdot has gone into full retard mode.
This space for rent.
When I say "use", I don't mean "try", I mean actually used it for day-to-day tasks for a couple weeks. Not "poked one in the mall and didn't know how to do everything right away, so I gave up,"
So must people spend half a thousand dollars on a product before being allowed to say anything about it? If so, Slashdot discussions are about to get lonely.
or worse yet, "saw a picture or video online and haven't even tried one in person."
For me, with some products, it's occasionally more like "I tried to try one in person but none of the three stores I was in had one in their showroom."
I don't care about their not caring.
You will when you can't buy a replacement for a broken device because the manufacturer has discontinued it in favor of a higher-margin product because nobody else bought one. Look at how laptop makers have dropped their 10" laptop product lines over the past two years. Even ASUS, which pioneered the category with the Eee PC, discontinued it in September of this year. You do end up with "no choice at all".
I looked at a bunch of laptops recently while shopping for an upgrade to my current one.
The touch screens are really cool. For example the Yoga from Lenovo is a beautiful, well designed laptop with solid build. Probably the laptop with the best design and build quality right now. I agree with the article that touch is an additional way of interaction, not a replacement of touchpad/mouse.
However there is one major flaw with the touch screen laptops: they all have glossy screens. No anti glare coating magic removes the harsh reflections. Without sitting in a pitch dark room, they are pretty much useless for any type of serious work.
How long until Apple sues Microsoft for infringing on its patent of a "multi-touch display with detachable keyboard"?
There's nothing wrong with gorilla arms! http://tinyurl.com/dancing-ballmer
a "hot plate" ? I think they call them "infrared ovens". You would have to power it using fresh nuclear material from a reactor to get the form factor and endurance, though.
More seriously, a key point of tablets is that they DO NOT use the Wintel Combination Of Energy Waste. A mobile device can't waste energy or it ceases to be a mobile device. Don't believe the propaganda from Intel; they still can't do things frugally.
they had an OS that would work with a touchscreen on a laptop. OS X isn't really a touch OS. As OS X and iOS merge look for the story to change to: "We've cracked the interface problem with touchscreen laptops! Now go buy our latest laptops with touchscreens!" I am not knocking Apple but that's the historical pattern.
Will this create a new class of devices? I think so. Touchtops should also have a removable "touch tablet" when you don't need the keyboard and connector platform.
"After all, how many iPad minis come with sandpaper for filing fingers down?'"
Every 7" iPad mini that Apple has ever sold has come with sandpaper. On the other hand, 7.9" iPad minis do not. Steve was talking about 7", not 7.9". That may seem pedantic, but he was being very specific about the crop of 7" tablets at the time, and the call for Apple to do a 7" iPad. That .9" may not seem like much, but when you actually get your hands on one, it's a HUGE difference.
Sitting with a computer in my lap, or even on my desk, I feel no desire to reach out and touch the screen... not with a decent gesture based trackpad like the one on my MacBook.
However, standing over the shoulder of someone, it makes perfect sense to touch the screen as opposed to push them out of the way to use their trackpad. It also makes sense sometimes standing over your own computer, especially when demonstrating something to people.
Here's the thing, other than cost, there really isn't much downside to adding this functionality, and the cost may not be that significant, so why not add it?
The point is that touch is supposed to replace the old, obsolete keyboard and mouse at least according to Microsoft so yes the problem of having to use a touchscreen with an on screen keyboard (or gestures like Palm's Graffiti) to type is going to be a problem. How many computers do you see with serial/parallel ports nowadays?
Steve Jobs said touch surfaces want to be horizontal, not vertical. I think he was just projecting his own desire, that he now displays for the world to see, to be horizontal himself.
Zoom in, pan left-right-up-down. Moving your arms from keyboard-to-screen-and-back-again is tiring ..
AccountKiller
I wish my iPad had a keyboard like a laptop, the I could do my typing much faster than the touch screen. I love the capability of the touch screen to enlarge pics, drag items and highlight with my fingers. Typing on the query keyboard can be a bit cludggy though.
The economy flights that I've been on barely have enough room to fit the laptop (with screen closed) on the tray. There is ZERO room to open up the screen and tilt it back far enough to read comfortably (at least not with my 14" one....maybe with a smaller screen it might be possible).
So I need to wear accessories just to implement the newest fad tech to be pushed down our throats
Touch screens are hardly being pushed down OUR throats. They are what most people prefer.
If you are not one of those people, obvious discomfort will result - so you just need to figure out how best to handle that in your own life, with a good option NOT being the grinch-like attitude that if something bothers you no-one should have it.
There has got to be some way that touch screens could be rendered useful to you.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Steve Jobs on the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000, "If it doesn't have a trackball it's not a computer. Kill it."
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
Simultaneously? That's either a really big screen or some impressive contortionist skills.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Given that Windows 8 can't make up its mind whether it's a touch UI or a classical keyboard+mouse UI, I don't think Microsoft has proven or disproven anything. (Bluetooth keyboards integrate well with iPads, but that doesn't prove anything either.) Apple has clearly been migrating towards a converged touch/classical UI with every version of OSX. Statements to the contrary about the viability of touch laptops are just the usual Apple misdirection until the time is ripe. With Windows 8, Microsoft is attempting to leapfrog Apple and steal their thunder, but MS really hasn't achieved a successful, converged implementation. Furthermore, while readily distinguishable from iOS, Metro is too busy and Windows 8 still suffers from DLL hell.
When I traveled weekly for work then I would have loved the touch screen laptop for the plane and cab rides. After using a table for about a year my personal thoughts are the combination device is going to be good at nothing. The ipad is almost too heavy for the web surfing, reading, etc.. that the device is designed for. I can't imagine laying out the couch or somewhere else reading a combo laptop. It's just not comfortable.
I think it's doable, but no pics please
Touch screens are nice; especially on EPOS systems. However, a true compliment to a keyboard and mouse would be a touch-less screen; the mouse and keyboard already do 2D perfectly. What we need is a 3D controller which does not rely on contact. a controller we can use on desktops, laptops, multiple - projectors - head mounted displays and everything in between. Hell, we could use it with an android phone, streaming to your TV - something like leap motion. http://leapmotion.com/
This has been my experience as well. I got a Lenovo Ideapad Yoga 13, and after 3 days I seemed to take touch for granted. I mostly use it as a regular laptop, but some things, like scrolling a web page or a document, are just easier and more intuitive with touch. I guess you could call me a believer. I'll never buy a non-touch laptop again, whether for work or play.
Steve Jobs was wrong about a lot of stuff. He was also right about a lot of stuff. More often than not when it came to branding, user experience and technology.
This headline sounds more like disdain and jealousy about the stuff he was right about than actually catching some "all knowing guru" in a mistake.
Ridiculous.
...Yes, he was wrong. I'm typing this on my Panasonic Toughbook CF-M34 which has a (pitifully small) touchscreen as well as netbook-sized keyboard. Over the past decade or so all I've wanted has been and continues to be a full-sized laptop, nay desktop replacement, with a fucking TOUCHSCREEN.
I don't want to have to go Surface for what I want, not least because I don't want a keyboard module that splits after a month. I don't want a tablet, I've got a tablet and you know what I use that for? It's the UI for a jukebox cabinet in my living room. I want a LAPTOP with a TOUCHSCREEN.
And contactless gesturing (Kinect has this, some of the smartest smart TVs have this, why is this not standard laptop tech yet??). And built in 3G (iPad has this in the bag, but for prior art look to Panasonic - most of their Toughbooks have built in GSM modems). And Bluetooth AS STANDARD. In most low-to-mid range laptops this isn't even an optional extra - you have to plug in a USB wart and pray it works. Global positioning? If they can fit this into a PHONE they can fit it into a LAPTOP. Can I start on very high definition screens? Or shall I just leave that to manufacturing constraints (the fact that most laptop panels are made using the same fabrication processes and even the same production lines, as HDTV panels so that's just a cost-saving measure on the part of Samsung et. al)? Hell for that matter, let's have a DAB/DVB tuner in there - if they can fit that on a USB wart (of which I have several examples) they can find an inch of space to fit it inside a laptop chassis.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
I had a touch screen netbook with Windows 7 on it and I loved it. I found myself trying to use the touch features on non touch surface (my other computer at home and my work computer) only to be disappointed when it didn't work. Unfortunately, the netbook was slow and not really up to par with what I wanted, so I opted for a less feature rich and less useful Android tablet. Since then, I've wanted to go back, but I cannot justify the cost. On a laptop or desktop computer, touch is NOT a replacement for the keyboard, although it is could be a replacement for the mouse if the applications are designed with a touch screen in mind.
I'd argue that the latest bunch of garbage from M$ is worthless, and of poor quality and design.
Rushed OS (and not needed), poor concept, poorly planned and craftmanship that imitates only - those
of Apple and Samsung. The "touch" is poor at best on Surface (what the article should be entitled) and sales
are meager, if non-existent so far this holiday season.
Keep in mind m$ planned the launch and rushed everything to get to the holiday punch bowl - and it's hurting them now.
I will NEVER use a touch-screen interface that continues to be run on an inferior and lousy OS, and is honestly - several years
behind (iOS, Droid, Kindle, Nook and others)
Keyboards are falling apart and off the devices when connected - and I've heard of quite a # of returns and RMA's being issued
for the 1st batches shipped.
There WAS something to the vendors hesitation of being forced to offer an OS and product that wasn't full polished yet - and
the sales $$$'s are showing this to be true.
I use a stylus. Solves my problems. Beaucoup Dinky Dow in the Tropical Alaskan Interior. Stylus even works with gloves. Icing up is the real problem this time of year. Minus 35 degrees.
One thing overlooked here... touch pad. The touch-screen interface is just another implementation of the touch-pad added directly to the screen. On all devices that you have remote screen, just use the pad instead. There have been many times that I touch the screen of a macbook or laptop after using the iPad which shows that there are some things that the 'touch' would be useful for as we re-train ourselves to the new interfaces. I would not want to live without the touch pad now, especially since we are now projecting our desktops to the tv or larger screens where the touch-screen will never be effective for overall use. The touch-pad has replaced my mouse altogether and it works on ALL screens, just like the iPad interface - even on an HP laptop with Windows. Goodbye mouse.
Given markets are driven by sentiment.
If marketing budgets are big enough, it is possible to generate enough positive sentiment to make people buy products, irrespective of how useful they are and how many real problems they ultimately solve.
Apple's successful big budget marketing has worked, and there is not only sentiment withing the media consuming domestic market for these devices, but also within the business community, which has meant that huge budgets are now being spent on developing business to business solutions delivered on tablet.
How productive people will be with these devices in business environments remains to be seen.
In my experience, a tablet in a business environment usually needs a plugin keyboard and stand, which begs the obvious question. I've seen many instances of users with tablets and a host of plug in peripherals, believe me.
The MS surface, with add on keyboard seems sensible to me, and integration to existing Windows systems does too. Whether they've spent enough money on driving sentiment is questionable.
Played w/ several surfaces last week and the word 'compliment' does ring true. there are quite a number of things are just a heck of a lot easier to do just by swiping the screen. touch screens will never replace keyboards for typing intensive operations, but quite slick for navigation
The not touching rule comes from actual human factors research that show that the human arm fatigues very painfully with extended use of vertical touch screens. Goes back to the 1960s and the E&S Sketchpad systems, shown again in the 1970s from Xerox PARC, and onward.
But let folks like Microsoft ignore actual scientific and empirical knowledge. That's standard operating procedure for them. Just like they were told most of their Windows design decisions would lead to it becoming a Malware Magnet (which it exactly became as predicted) while other companies who embraced Unix OSes don't have the same malware problems - due to architecture insights that were known long ago.
DUUUUUUH!!
Maybe because crap USB keyboards cost a dollar or two, and can be hot-swapped when then cheeto-out. Try that with your touchscreen.
I'm referring to the "citation needed" idiot that came later - as should have been obvious.
I don't care what other baggage you've got. I wrote what I wrote and nothing else.
Ah Americans.
+1