Windows Blue Is Officially Windows 8.1, Free For Existing Users

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Windows Blue Is Officially Windows 8.1, Free For Existing Users

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday May 14, 2013 @05:35AM from the getting-rid-of-the-blues dept.

Several readers sent word that Microsoft has officially dubbed the upcoming revision to its flagship operating system "Windows 8.1," retiring the code-name "Windows Blue." They also said the update would be freely available to anybody with Windows 8. It will be available through the Windows Store. "Reller declined to provide an exact release date for Windows 8.1, but said that Microsoft is 'very sensitive to the timing of the holidays.' Ideally, Microsoft will be able to provide devices with Windows 8.1 pre-loaded in time for the holiday 2013 season, Reller said, but those who purchase a Windows 8 device later this year will be able to easily upgrade to 8.1."

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Wohoo! by Steve+Ka · 2013-05-14 05:37 · Score: 1, Funny

I've waited for this. Party hard, party hard. Wohoo!
1. Re:Wohoo! by no1nose · 2013-05-14 06:08 · Score: 2
  
  I have been holding out replacing my desktop and laptop for this as well. Did they put the Windows 7 Style Start Orb back? Can it boot directly to the old-school screen and bypass the tiles?
2. Re:Wohoo! by thunderclap · 2013-05-14 06:20 · Score: 2
  
  NO. What gave you that Idea? The orb is an icon that simply links you back to metro. The rest is still windows 8. Oh there is an arcane way to get to the desktop without first entering metro but you will still have to deal with it alot
3. Re:Wohoo! by Roblimo · 2013-05-14 08:30 · Score: 2
  
  If you want the look & feel of Windows 7, 95, (shudder) Vista, or even 3.1 or something custom you make up, download Classic Shell - http://www.classicshell.net/ - and you will have more control over Windows than you've ever had.
4. Re:Wohoo! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  Hell, I use Classic Shell on my Windows 7 partition even. It's better than the default start menu.
5. Re:Wohoo! by Sir_Sri · 2013-05-14 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  We're not sure yet, preview releases are due out next month, but as with past preview releases they can also change things up quite a lot between first MSDN and Technet previews and release.
  There are leaked builds available, but I'm always skeptical of leaked builds, because if the company wanted it released they would have. They're still at the stages of trying things and deciding what they want it to be.
6. Re:Wohoo! by MachDelta · 2013-05-14 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  A cheap hack to boot to the desktop: Simply make the desktop tile the very first (top leftmost) tile and, after you log in, simply tap enter (again) to activate that default tile. Works with any program you frequently use, too, so feel free to put your Firefox or Chrome tile in that position for quick access.
7. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Oh there is an arcane way to get to the desktop without first entering metro but you will still have to deal with it alot
  Out of interest what is it you spend all that time doing with the start menu? Maybe it's the Mac influence but when I use Windows (any version) I have my frequently-used applications pinned to the taskbar and if I need to open up another application that isn't there I just hit the windows key and start typing and i get a list (or grid in 8) of the results, 9 times out of 10 the first result is what i'm after anyway, much like Spotlight in OSX.
8. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  Is that established fact or conjecture? Oh, and it's "a lot".
9. Re:Wohoo! by mtb_ogre · 2013-05-14 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't the start menu the place you find icons to drag onto the taskbar? Or does Windows 7/8 support pinning the way OSX does now?
10. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 11:40 · Score: 2
  
  For tech support and "old hands" it's like you used to have a reserved parking spot outside the building, so you knew where you were going to park every morning, and didn't have to "remember" where you car is parked in the afternoon.
  And now, you have to park in the multistory next door, where there's a valet that parks your car and returns the keys in the morning, but no valet in the afternoon. So you can get almost the same parking spot every day by getting in super early, or you get a random spot and have to play hunt the car every afternoon.
  i.e. the arbitrary sorting/grouping helps no one but people that never need tech support and enjoy faffing with the icons on their iphone all day. Mac users perhaps?
11. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 11:41 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't the start menu the place you find icons to drag onto the taskbar?
  Or the start screen (in Windows 8), or shortcuts in explorer. What is it people are actually doing with their computers that they spend so much time in the start menu?
  
  Or does Windows 7/8 support pinning the way OSX does now?
  You mean by dragging an icon there? Yes. Or if you're in the start menu(7)/screen(8) right-click + 'pin to taskbar' works too.
12. Re:Wohoo! by hairyfeet · 2013-05-14 13:02 · Score: 1
  
  Nope, their idea of "listening to users" is to make it so you can run TWO, count 'em two, metro apps side by side, wooho! Now it almost has as much functionality as Win 3.1!
  A word of advice to anybody thinking about it? if you don't already have Win 8 (which if you do, my sympathies) don't bother, its just the same shit as Win 8 with a slightly different name. if you are getting a desktop or laptop just get an OEM copy of Win 7 or go to someplace like Tiger or NewEgg where you can buy a new Win 7 machine, you'll be glad you did. this is the first OS since WinME I'm actively avoiding, its even worse than Vista on the "piss me the fuck off" scale.
  BTW to any other PC repair guys...are you seeing increased need to use that "refresh my PC" option at your shop? because while the only time I've ever needed to reinstall Win 7 was when a malware infected system came in I'm seeing a LOT of the "refresh your PC" jobs, especially if it has an AMD APU, although I've noticed Intel isn't immune, just less likely. Personally i have a theory that the reason that "refresh my PC" bit was placed in there was because they had a serious file corruption bug they couldn't nail down before RTM, because from what I've been able to see it looks like Win 8 corrupts its own system files over time until you end up with an unbootable mess. I don't know if its metro and desktop fighting each other, don't know if that shitty "hybrid boot" is causing corruption, all I know is I'll refresh a PC a couple of times before the owner gets sick of the shit and has me install Win 7 and after that? Its all good, purrs like a kitten. So its not a hardware problem, its a Win 8 problem.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
13. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  It's not like that at all, things aren't just in random places and you can put them on the taskbar or desktop if you really want. And that still doesn't answer the question of what exactly you're spending all this time doing in the start menu, what is it these tech support and 'old hands' types are doing with it?
14. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 14:30 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, your contention that you can put them where you want is the "arrive at 6am so you get the same place every day" equivalent in my analogy. That doesn't help the tech that has to find them, they're not you. They're not "random" in the sense that they're shuffled every time you open the start menu, but they are random in the same way that you can't always immediately find the cups in an unfamiliar kitched, or be sure that's all the cups and not just the "good china", etc.
  As to what they're doing. They're trying to help someone do something they don't do often, otherwise they wouldn't need help, so odds are it's not pinned anywhere. They have to find it. What they have to find might be any one of 100 different programs that do similar functions, so they don't know what it's called so they can't just type the name in search, but it's readily apparent from the old all programs what you have installed and it's in a standard order and established companies have established places they put all their crap.
15. Re:Wohoo! by BooMonster · 2013-05-14 14:31 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, I don't want to have to grab a mouse, or fuss with the touchpad if I can help it. My start menu (XP) has my most frequently used apps with a number in front of them. So I can hit the windows key and then 1 to start chrome, or windows key and 2 to start OpenOffice, et cetera.
  Also, I can shut it down by pressing windows, "u" and "s".
16. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 14:44 · Score: 0
  
  That doesn't help the tech that has to find them, they're not you.
  If a tech can't use the search feature then they aren't much of a tech.
  
  They're not "random" in the sense that they're shuffled every time you open the start menu, but they are random in the same way that you can't always immediately find the cups in an unfamiliar kitched, or be sure that's all the cups and not just the "good china", etc.
  Are you referring to the ability to re-arrange the items on the start screen? Because you can do that in the start menu too.
  
  As to what they're doing. They're trying to help someone do something they don't do often, otherwise they wouldn't need help, so odds are it's not pinned anywhere. They have to find it. What they have to find might be any one of 100 different programs that do similar functions, so they don't know what it's called so they can't just type the name in search, but it's readily apparent from the old all programs what you have installed and it's in a standard order and established companies have established places they put all their crap.
  So the situation is where a tech needs to find something but they don't know what it is so they can't search, they are happy to browse through a list of god knows how many programs (given you said "What they have to find might be any one of 100 different programs") in the start menu but are unable or unwilling to browse them in grid form like in the start screen. Seems this tech isn't bright enough to open up the start menu folder in windows explorer either.
  Seriously what is this situation where you're looking for one of 100 different programs that do similar things but you don't know what it is, how do you know what you're even looking for and how is the start menu inherently better for this?
17. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  Say you need to adjust an image.
  Photoshop? (or one of a few Adobe programs all under the Adobe folder)
  Irfanview?
  ACDSee?
  Gimp?
  Paintshop?
  What _exactly_ am I searching for given I have to know the name first?
  You're not a tech, or you wouldn't be asking this series of stupid ass questions.
18. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  You can't find that in a grid view? If you really need the start menu organization then just look in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs, simple. What ties you so hard to the start menu?
19. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 16:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, just that easy... or not, actually incredibly tedious and starts in a hidden folder with a horrible navigation system for what you're trying to accomplish.
  Or they could have left the existing well known system in place, given as you point out ALL the data is still there anyway, and added a new layer for those devices that need a touch friendly option.
  Alternatively, they could remove the feature for no reason other than consistency with devices that statistically no one owns and hope that wierdos like yourself convince their pissed off customers that they're wrong. That always works.
20. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 16:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, just that easy... or not, actually incredibly tedious and starts in a hidden folder with a horrible navigation system for what you're trying to accomplish.
  What you're trying to accomplish is a really bizarre situation where you have a tech trying to edit an image on somebody elses computer where he doesn't know which - if any - image editing application is installed, do you go through the entire list to determine whether one is installed at all? In the end for some reason you are having a huge amount of difficulty accomplishing a very simple task without the start menu, which is really just a list of applications, how do you manage on ios, android, OSX or various linux distributions without the start menu?
21. Re:Wohoo! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:07 · Score: 0
  
  Alternatively, they could remove the feature for no reason other than consistency with devices that statistically no one owns and hope that wierdos like yourself convince their pissed off customers that they're wrong.
  my mac has no Start Menu or equivalent and neither do my Ubuntu or Fedora boxes so how would you accomplish your task on them? come to think of it my iPhone and my Galaxy Tab have no start menu either, they just have a grid of icons.
22. Re:Wohoo! by Zaelath · 2013-05-14 17:34 · Score: 1
  
  It's what you call an example, and if you were a tech you'd have a lot of examples where you use 'all programs'. Like running WinSCP for the one or two times a year you use it, it's not going to be pinned anywhere.
  As for supporting ios, android, OSX, no one does. ios and android are the user's problem, OSX is either the users problem or a trip to the "genius" bar. There's some exceptions on OSX for unis, but there's no 'corporate best practice' for toys.
  Linux distros you ssh in, and the users are either too savvy to need support, or never touch anything ever, and aren't allowed to. Plus, linux desktops are also statistically non-existant.
  That's the last of your straw man trolling I'm going to bother with, it's entertaining for a while but only so much.
23. Re:Wohoo! by exomondo · 2013-05-14 18:06 · Score: 0
  
  Like running WinSCP for the one or two times a year you use it, it's not going to be pinned anywhere.
  In which case you type 'winscp' to find it, rather than inefficiently browsing a list.
  
  As for supporting ios, android, OSX, no one does.
  
  Really? Nobody supports those, so nobody has had to - to take your example - help a user to edit an image in OSX?
  
  There's some exceptions on OSX for unis, but there's no 'corporate best practice' for toys.
  I'm not talking about 'best practice' i'm saying you seem completely unable to solve this perceived scenario without a Start Menu, and you've proven that is correct.
  
  Linux distros you ssh in, and the users are either too savvy to need support, or never touch anything ever, and aren't allowed to.
  So again if you needed to support Linux you wouldn't be able to because it has no start menu.
  
  That's the last of your straw man trolling I'm going to bother with, it's entertaining for a while but only so much.
  Firstly there is no strawman, your inability to assist any user that doesn't have a Start Menu just shows your absolute incompetence. Secondly I'm fairly sure you'll continue to bother, but nice try.
24. Re:Wohoo! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 18:17 · Score: 0
  
  so how do you do that on other platforms?
Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

So, then it is the unofficial return of the service packs.
1. Re:Service pack by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2013-05-14 06:00 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Free.
  Couldn't sell it.
  Only for current users. That's not exactly restricting scope, is it? ;-)
  
  --
  "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
  Never been known to fail..."
2. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:21 · Score: 0, Funny
  
  I guess RMS will finally be happy now when Windows is free software.
3. Re:Service pack by thunderclap · 2013-05-14 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, 8.1 is a service pack nothing more.
4. Re:Service pack by rwven · 2013-05-14 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  It's all about the marketing....
5. Re:Service pack by 0racle · 2013-05-14 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think too many can complain if Windows 8.X releases are free service packs and you don't have to buy a new license until Windows 9.
  
  --
  "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
6. Re:Service pack by denis-The-menace · 2013-05-14 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  XP was supposed to be a service pack for Windows 2000.
  Next thing you know, you have to pay for it.
  Don't count your free upgrade as "Free" until it installs for free.
  Until it does, it's vapour-ware to increase sales.
  
  --
  Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
7. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:06 · Score: 0
  
  Same thing with Vista and Win7
8. Re:Service pack by PhxBlue · 2013-05-14 07:47 · Score: 2
  
  It's still only free-as-in-beer.
  I know, I know: "Whoosh." But the distinction is still kinda important, don't you think?
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
9. Re:Service pack by partyguerrilla · 2013-05-14 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Stallman will never be happy.
10. Re:Service pack by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  No it wasn't.
  "Until it does, it's vapour-ware to increase sales."
  I don't think you know what vapor-ware is.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
11. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  Stallman will never be happy.
  And if Stallman can never be happy then Stallman can never be free. Confucius [1]
  [1] actually, it was some guy working for Foxxcon, but that's close enough
12. Re:Service pack by gl4ss · 2013-05-14 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  XP was supposed to be a service pack for Windows 2000.
  Next thing you know, you have to pay for it.
  Don't count your free upgrade as "Free" until it installs for free.
  Until it does, it's vapour-ware to increase sales.
  it's not free.
  you need to register a microsoft account to use with with the application store. that they couldn't distribute it otherwise is UTTER BULLSHIT. in fact, they're probably rolling an update to the sw market prior to it to be able to push it through it.
  fact: ms's metric for windows 8 success is purely how much people are using the sw marketplace. this metric is what drives their whole system. because they got potentially billions of dollars on the balance. billions of dollars they didn't have access to before it.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
13. Re:Service pack by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:36 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Semi-free. You can only get it from the app store. And you can only use the app store, even for free apps, by registering a Microsoft Account (presumably for spying purposes). Whereas in the past you would get service packs via the normal Windows Update process. Since the app store is the only reason Microsoft is pushing windows 8, I don't see them changing this policy ever.
14. Re:Service pack by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, W8.1's free, all right. It's its users that aren't.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
15. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  It's still only free-as-in-beer.
  That's all anybody cares about anyway, even these "free software" switches that some governments are doing focus purely on the cost savings compared to licensing software. FOSS advocates act as if it's some big win but the reality is all these people actually want is Freeware not Free Software.
16. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, W8.1's free, all right. It's its users that aren't.
  Dude after all this time having free operating systems on desktops, laptops and phones (the N900 for example) it still hasn't produced a tangible customer benefit that would cause people to switch en-masse outside of being free of $ cost, and that isn't even the idea of free software, you're supposed to be able to make money on it because it isn't expected that devs will just work for free. People don't actually care about that shit which is why iOS is so popular and why most people that use Android use whatever version their handset came with, or a carrier/OEM upgrade if there was one.
17. Re:Service pack by Mashiki · 2013-05-14 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  And you can only use the app store, even for free apps, by registering a Microsoft Account (presumably for spying purposes)
  Considering the number of posts that come up saying I already own a x-box here on /. the number of people who don't have a MS account would be surprisingly small by my guess.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
18. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:12 · Score: 0
  
  But I only use Windows 8 with a local account AND WANT IT TOO KEEP THAT WAY!
  So - now you HAVE to register just to get updates.
  Guess what? I don't like to have no choice.
  And that's what pissing me off!
19. Re:Service pack by Mashiki · 2013-05-14 18:53 · Score: 1
  
  So - now you HAVE to register just to get updates.
  Really? I guess that's why I'm in local mode and get updates just fine.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
20. Re:Service pack by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-14 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  Or, it's an admission that the current product is crap, nobody is willfully buying it, and that they have to give everyone this "free" update just to make the product desirable.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
21. Re:Service pack by slashmydots · 2013-05-15 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  They always intended to have a service pack, they just wanted to call it something different so they could sell it. The only slight exception is giant UI changes don't usually occur in service packs lately, although Wireless Zero in SP2 was pretty significant.
22. Re:Service pack by PhxBlue · 2013-05-15 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  I don't remember Microsoft ever charging money for a service pack, so I don't think that spin holds water.
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
23. Re:Service pack by PhxBlue · 2013-05-15 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  That's all anybody cares about anyway, even these "free software" switches that some governments are doing focus purely on the cost savings compared to licensing software.
  Generally a true statement right there. I appreciate the principles, but I care a lot more about the cost.
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
24. Re:Service pack by hazydave · 2013-05-15 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  So yeah, they decided they can't charge for a service pack. Not news.
  The change in name... 8.1 vs. 8sp1 is no doubt aimed at, very least, suggesting Microsoft is doing real yearly OS updates. This is needed because of the competition. Google usually does two new Android major releases in a year. Apple does one iOS and about one MacOS release every year.
  Microsoft, on their typical 3-year schedule, simply can't compete with the pace of technology. Even today, not so much. Windows Phone OEMs are already complaining that the HW requirements of Windows Phone 8 is, once again, making it impossible to compete head-to-head with Android and iOS. I don't disagree.. though part of that is the artificial split between Windows Phone and Windows on tablets; iOS and Android don't do desktop, but they do tablet and phone. On Android, apps routinely adjust themselves for the different screen resolutions, so adding new ones is no big deal. Windows has a small number of very specific requirements, and hardware is changing faster than those numbers.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
25. Re:Service pack by hazydave · 2013-05-15 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  There are only about 76 million X-Box 360s, total. There were 480 million Android devices sold just last year. I don't know how many people hold MS Accounts ... though it's certainly less than Facebook or Google account holders. But I don't think X-Box is at all significant in boosting those numbers.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
26. Re:Service pack by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 06:45 · Score: 0
  
  I know: what's this crap with the floating-point pretense? 8.1? It's just 8, sp. 1. Next, Ballmer will be asking for Canonical to help him with some cool nicknames, and he'll call 8.2 "Pretentious Prickle", or some damned thing, like Ubuntu, with Bodacious Bratwurst.
27. Re:Service pack by Meski · 2013-05-15 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  You did before. But they called it 'activation' then.
Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:42 · Score: 1

Windows Blue?
With the obvious "Windows Blue Screen" jokes, do they WANT to be the object of ridicule?
1. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by SJHillman · 2013-05-14 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  But now Windows has a nice big :( on their BSoD to make it pretty. Lord knows I saw enough of them when I tried Win 8 after the retail launch. I might go back once 8.1 comes out, it had a lot of nice features but I had some stability issues (although many of those were fixed within the first couple months of patches). The metro UI can be suppressed in less time than most people take to write a gripe about it on an Internet forum.
2. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by QRDeNameland · 2013-05-14 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Here lies Windows. It blew...chunks...I mean, serious chunks.
  
  --
  Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
3. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:51 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Windows Blue?
  More like Windows Blew.
4. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  Ooh. I’ve heard this one. Chunks is your dog.
5. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by Yewbert · 2013-05-14 07:00 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Made me think of the Mitch Hedburg one-liner. "I used to do drugs. I *still* do, but I used to, too."
  Windows Blue. It *still* blows, but it blue, too.
6. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 11:42 · Score: 0
  
  Glad I got to see him live before he passed away.
7. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by mattack2 · 2013-05-14 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  ..maybe he'd still be around if he wasn't doing drugs.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_hedberg#Death
8. Re:Boy, they just ask for it, don't they. by DiEx-15 · 2013-05-15 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Blue?
  More like Windows Blew.
  More like: Windows Blue Screen of Death: The OS version.
Wow... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2013-05-14 05:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

I honestly wasn't expecting that. Toward the end of Vista's lifecycle, I think that they were offering 'buy this computer now, upgrade for free*(additional charges may apply) when 7 comes out' in order to avoid having a sales slump while people waited it out; but offering '8.1' as a free update, this soon after 8, is about as close to a concession speech as you could expect to see. (Especially in light of the rumored move to a 'release often cheaply or by subscription' model, which would have made a cheap, but nonzero, upgrade price a more natural option than it otherwise would have been)
1. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:47 · Score: 0
  
  I think the public would raise holy hell if they charged for 8.1. It barely qualifies as a service pack. Most of the updates are at the API level and the public couldn't care less that there's a new API for some programmer to hook into.
  The most significant change I can think of is the return of a Start button. But that is literally just a graphic in the bottom corner of the screen, it adds no functionality. Whether is the pretty icon is there for not, you still click the bottom level corner and go to the Start screen.
2. Re:Wow... by SJHillman · 2013-05-14 05:48 · Score: 3
  
  Think of it less as a new OS like going from Vista to 7 was (even though Vista, 7 and 8 are just incremental upgrades to the same OS) and more like going from XP to XP SP2. It fixes a lot of major issues and (hopefully) responds to user feedback.
3. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:48 · Score: 0
  
  Call me when it has a start MENU...not a half a$*ed start BUTTON, which apparently does not include much of the functionality that's accessible at my fingertips in Windows 7.
4. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:51 · Score: 0
  
  They almost did the same with Visual Studio 2003 (.NET 1.1), which was available for a $29 upgrade from 2002 (.NET 1.0) which included a letter apologizing for the first version's shortcomings. Of course, this was a great way to get install keys and media for all Microsoft's server products for practically zero cost . . .
5. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:54 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Showing something is better...
  When I showed someone how to do it with win 8 they looked at me and said "how do I know I should do that?!"
  They seemed to have forgot one of their early lessons with the 'start' button.
  http://www.irintech.com/x1/co/3586/1347415399000
6. Re:Wow... by Austerity+Empowers · 2013-05-14 06:01 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I'd still wait for Windows 8.11 for workgroups. Maybe they'll add a proper command line and support x forwarding natively.
7. Re:Wow... by jones_supa · 2013-05-14 06:05 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I seriously can't know how people can be comfortable with the Win8 Start screen. Here's a picture of my Start menu in Win7. Everything is nicely pinned right there (no moving mouse around the screen), the search functionality works the same and there is direct access to things like Control Panel. It does not steal the attention with a full screen jumbled mess of harshly colored icons.
8. Re:Wow... by jellomizer · 2013-05-14 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  I just see it as a Service Pack Upgrade to the system. It isn't like We are going from Windows 8 to Windows 9. Just Windows 8 to 8.1.
  Besides the speed of the update is well within your normal hardware upgrade cycle (every 4-6 years) It isn't like you will be expecting to get a new laptop from to run 8.1, as well the changes are not enough for most people to Pay for the upgrade.
  Overall I don't see it as Microsoft saying anything bad about windows 8, instead of we listen to your advice and made the new version a little better.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
9. Re:Wow... by Dcnjoe60 · 2013-05-14 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  They don't actually say it is a free update to Windows 8. They say that people who buy a pc with Windows 8 installed between now and when 8.1 is released will be able to upgrade for free. What is omitted is what if you already purchased a PC, say last year with WIndows 8?
10. Re:Wow... by lister+king+of+smeg · 2013-05-14 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  I'd still wait for Windows 8.11 for workgroups. Maybe they'll add a proper command line and support x forwarding natively.
  Microsoft will add native x forwarding to windows shortly after the devil^W^W Balmer ice skates to work
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
11. Re:Wow... by CAIMLAS · 2013-05-14 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  W7 was more an incremental upgrade from Vista. More like a parallel-developed version of Vista that never got released initially. It's just too different.
  
  --
  ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
12. Re:Wow... by Your.Master · 2013-05-14 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  They literally say it is a free update in the very first sentence of the article, which is cited in the second sentence of the summary (which says the same thing).
  
  The upcoming Windows Blue update, now officially known as Windows 8.1, will be delivered as a free update through the operating system's app store, Microsoft confirmed today.
13. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  I am holding out for Windows 8SE
14. Re:Wow... by Teresita · 2013-05-14 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  I'd still wait for Windows 8.11 for workgroups. Maybe they'll add a proper command line and support x forwarding natively.
  
  Windows for Warehouses.
15. Re:Wow... by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 06:40 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The lack of visual clues is appalling. My roommate has Win 8 and she asked me how she should change a setting. Well it was in the Control Panel but there is no apparent way to get to the Control Panel anymore. We had to look it up on the Internet. She had to find the one hot corner that showed her "Settings". There's no visual clue that's what she should do. It's also not a matter of getting used to change; there was no obvious clue that a specific corner shows you Settings.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
16. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:50 · Score: 0
  
  A bloo bloo bloo everything new is bad
17. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  uhm, shouldn't that be 8.22 ?!
18. Re:Wow... by Marillion · 2013-05-14 06:59 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If you want to consider how the engineers inside Microsoft think of the code base, I'd suggest considering how they internally number the versions. I think it's very insightful. The windows API has a self-identification function that returns the internal version numbering.
  Windows NT 4.0 self-identified as NT4.0
  Windows 2000 self-identified as NT5.0
  Windows XP self-identified as NT5.1
  Windows Vista self-identified as NT6.0
  Windows 7 self-identified as NT6.1
  Windows 8 self-identified as NT6.2
  
  --
  This is a boring sig
19. Re:Wow... by reikae · 2013-05-14 07:07 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I don't know how I'm comfortable with it either, but after using Windows 8 for half a year I am (not saying it necessarily takes six months to get comfortable, I just don't remember whether I was comfortable with it from the start (no pun intended) or not).
  Both the start menu and start screen grab my attention, which is expected since I pressed winkey to bring them up in order to use them. Win+I and enter gives direct access to control panel. Harshly coloured jumbled mess is a bit of an exaggeration IMHO, all the icons on my start screen have a calm blue background.
  I still haven't found any useful Metro apps though. I have tried Metro Skype every now and then, but it's very limited compared to the desktop version.
20. Re:Wow... by twistedsymphony · 2013-05-14 07:12 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Might want to fix that image... before anyone realizes you use IE instead of.... anything else.
  
  --
  Collector's Edition
21. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder how long you spent setting that up with math apps & hiding your Limewire/BearShare or whatever so we wouldn't realize how pathetic you actually are. But you fucked up. Because for all your careful posturing, you were Slashdotting with IE. Off with his karma!~
22. Re:Wow... by Alarash · 2013-05-14 07:15 · Score: 0
  
  Like in the past. Hit the "Windows" key, type "Control Panel", and it'll show up. I never had a problem with Windows 8 because in Windows 7 I always hit "Windows key" and started typing whatever I was looking for. Did you really have to Google that?
23. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:18 · Score: 0
  
  You don't have to use your mouse to navigate the Start screen. Use your keyboard is you prefer or just fucking type. If your attention is stolen because the icons are arranged differently, be wary of shiny objects when driving, I guess.
24. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-14 07:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  When your UI is so undiscoverable that people need to use search to get anything done, then you know you have a lousy UI.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
25. Re:Wow... by garyoa1 · 2013-05-14 07:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. IF you did the (recommended) clean install yer kinda screwed. But if you did a simple upgrade, all your old desktop folders are there.
  Thing is, if you want to add another app you already have to your desktop... I'm lost. Never could find a way to do that without the start menu.
  
  --
  Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
26. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:22 · Score: 0
  
  it may just be me , I know Im not the sharpest tool in the box but my first experience with win 8 was Horrible. I was working through the tutorial and a window opened full screen with no way of closing it, nor had they yet told me the keyboard shortcut how to do that!
27. Re:Wow... by Alarash · 2013-05-14 07:27 · Score: 1
  
  I just find it much faster to type "Control Panel" than to move the mouse and click three or for times. This applies to both W7 and W8. To each their own I guess.
28. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  Wow it's like looking at a screenshot from 1999!
29. Re:Wow... by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 07:31 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  [sarcasm]Yes because Windows key + "Control Panel" is so obvious to a user using a mouse.[/sarcasm]. That like saying searching in emacs has always been Ctrl-S [Return] string [Return]. [sarcasm] I means why would anyone need to Google that?[/sarcasm]
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
30. Re:Wow... by excelsior_gr · 2013-05-14 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  Although the Win8 start screen does such balls, I have learned to completely ignore such things. A long time ago, I wanted my menus well-organized, my HDD defragmented and my beer cold... Now, a lot of computer generations later, I figured that OEM crapware and decision-making GUI-designers are never going to let me have that, so I gave up, but I trained myself in completely ignoring their shit. I still like my beer cold though.
  A soon as I got past the start screen and got into the desktop "mode" (and after some downloading and installing), I set up all the shortcuts of the stuff I needed on the desktop (Even a shortcut to "My Computer", because that is where I found the computer settings first. It took me a while to discover the popping-up crapware menu). Now I will never have to glance on the start screen again. It is just another thing that has to get out of the way. And I stopped storing my files in the designated Windows folders a long time ago, as soon as I discovered that they get infested with "random" files and folders. Keeping installations at bay got far too annoying. All my files are under C:\Stuff now.
31. Re:Wow... by Rhacman · 2013-05-14 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  When Windows 95 came out, I hated the start menu. Shortly thereafter I got used to it and while it isn't something I make time to celebrate it-just-works. When I first saw the Windows 8 Start screen I was resistant but figured I'd just come around after I used it. Instead my initial hate has just mellowed out to a steady dislike.
  
  Don't get me wrong, the idea is greats for tablets, smartphones, and all your other assorted have-to-have portable toys but on the desktop it is an attempt to solve a problem that never existed. If you have too many things on your Start menu, it scrolls... just like the Windows 8 Start screen when you have more than a dozen fist sized 'tiles' on it. If you don't group and organize your Start menu it can get ugly to find things... just like the Windows 8 Start screen if you let tiles just accumulate.
  
  The biggest insult is that the start menu DID exist in Windows 8 during the developer preview. You had to fuss with the registry to get it but it was in there. It would seem that Microsoft had to specifically remove it for the actual release. Apparently it wasn't good enough to let people pick, we need to be shown The Way.
  
  --
  Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
32. Re:Wow... by asylumx · 2013-05-14 07:52 · Score: 1
  
  That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is: if your UI is so discoverable that all you have to do is hit one key and then type whatever you're looking for and *boom* there it is, you know you have a great UI.
  
  Apple is "known" for their great UIs and yet it's far more difficult to find things on a damn mac, iphone or ipad than it's ever been on a windows device.
33. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 07:56 · Score: 0
  
  When your UI is so undiscoverable that people need to use search to get anything done, then you know you have a lousy UI.
  1. Do the exact same thing (Win-key, type "cont..") -- do the exact same thing in Win7 and Win8 and then post back about whether it's any different. (answer -- it's exactly the same. The only difference is visual -- the workflow, the clicks, the keystrokes, the responsiveness, are exactly identical).
  2. Please don't tell me you actually used to click "start" and then click on "control panel"? It's okay to do that I suppose, but any power user worth a dime would follow the typing-based approach because it's much much faster, and it works for everything no matter how shallow or deep it's nested in the start menu (or even if it's not there at all).
34. Re:Wow... by Pinhedd · 2013-05-14 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget about Windows Server 2003 / XP x64 which identify as NT 5.2
35. Re:Wow... by 0123456 · 2013-05-14 08:01 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is: if your UI is so discoverable that all you have to do is hit one key and then type whatever you're looking for and *boom* there it is, you know you have a great UI.
  DOS was even better. You didn't even have to 'hit one key' before you could type the command you were looking for.
  Back in the real world, if your GRAPHICAL User Interface requires you to type the name of a program to start it, it's a lousy UI.
36. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  My 1985-vintage IBM Model-M keyboard doesn't have a "Windows key", you insensitive clod!
37. Re:Wow... by danbert8 · 2013-05-14 08:02 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That's your problem... You are assuming power users. Do you know how many people I know who still go to the edit menu to select COPY and PASTE rather than using keyboard shortcuts or even right clicking?
  
  --
  Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
38. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 08:04 · Score: 0
  
  While I'm at it, I might as well give you a couple of other options:
  1) Touch screen option: Swipe from left, settings, control panel. Big, huge targets. Easy to discover.
  2) Non-touch screen option: Win-C, settings, control panel. Big huge targets. Eventually everyone will know Win-C = Charms menu.
  All this faux outrage from Slashdot. Such luddites, everyone here. Been learning new UI stuff on Linux every 6 months virtually, willing to switch between Gnome and KDE every couple of years, and then Unity, willing to jump through all kinds of hoops, but absolutely adamantly insistent that (a) Windows is not worth the money because nothing ever changes and (b) Windows must never change because it's too damn difficult to learn anything new.
  Pathetic.
39. Re:Wow... by TigerPlish · 2013-05-14 08:05 · Score: 2
  
  Apple is "known" for their great UIs and yet it's far more difficult to find things on a damn mac, iphone or ipad than it's ever been on a windows device.
  Dunno 'bout you, but on my ios6 iphone 4, I go to home screen, press home again, and there's this magical Search page that will rifle through my phone. if I search for "doctor" it'll return all the calendar, email, address book entries for that "doctor." If I have media in the phone with the word "doctor" in it, it'll also come up.
  How is it worse than a Windows device?
  
  --
  The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
40. Re:Wow... by Andrio · 2013-05-14 08:10 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I tried changing the wallpaper on my brother-in-law's Windows 8 laptop the other day. So I downloaded a picture, and opened it after it finished downloading. The picture loaded in the OS' default image viewer. I saw the picture appear, full-screened, and with no interface. I tried right-clicking the picture. That didn't give me a menu, but an interface did fade into appearance. I promptly saw an option to "Set as."
  
  I clicked it, thinking: "Surely this will let me set the image as the wallpaper", but I was given just two options: set as lockscreen (IT'S A LAPTOP!), and set as 'app tile'
  
  I immediately closed the window since the option I wanted wasn't there--no wait, actually I didn't close it. There was no UI option to close this fullscreen picture. I alt-tabbed back to the desktop. I found the picture again, right clicked it, and went to the "open with" option. There were like 5 image viewers that came with Windows to choose from. I chose the old "Windows Photo Viewer" and set it as the default so this madness won't happen again.
  
  --
  The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
41. Re:Wow... by Rhacman · 2013-05-14 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  I never had a problem with Windows 8 because in Windows 7 I always hit "Windows key" and started typing whatever I was looking for.
  Not everyone opens it that way, myself included. I just click the "Control Panel" entry.
  
  The Windows 7 Start Menu has a text field with the explanation "Search programs and files". The Windows 8 Start Screen has no apparent visual cue that you can do the same by just typing.
  
  --
  Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
42. Re:Wow... by AmiMoJo · 2013-05-14 08:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  There is a good technical reason for numbering the versions that way. A lot of badly written software was checking the major version number. Installers were especially prone to this. As such Microsoft only increments the major number when they deliberately want to break compatibility with such software and force sysadmins who really need to get it running to turn on compatibility mode.
  2000 had some new UI stuff and various APIs ported over from Windows 98/ME. Vista had the biggest changes in Window's entire history. On the other hand any OS with the same major version number tends to be fairly similar from an API point of view.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
43. Re:Wow... by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:16 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  There is no apparent way to get to the control panel in windows 7. Someone had to teach you or you had to poke around.
  This is 'It's not what I'm used to, whaaa' and nothing more.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
44. Re:Wow... by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, you had ti hit, at least, 11 keys
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
45. Re:Wow... by Andrio · 2013-05-14 08:19 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The problem is that a person doesn't even know they can start typing to search for stuff. There are no visual cues for that.
  
  In Windows 7/Vista, the start menu shows you an input box--the closest element to the button, in fact--with "Search Programs and Files"
  
  In Windows 8, the start menu shows you an entire screen's worth of distracting colors and movement, all contained within identical boxes.
  
  --
  The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
46. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  Classic Shell....Done.
47. Re:Wow... by fazookus · 2013-05-14 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Eventually they'll be going to ME and then they'll start all over again.
48. Re:Wow... by IndustrialComplex · 2013-05-14 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming a standard keyboard layout, you can't type 'Control Panel' using standard typing positions and your hand on the mouse.
  Let's say you were browsing the internet and wanted to change something on the control panel. To do it your way means you have to take your right hand off the mouse and use it to type 'control panel' (or a portion of it. Though even 'co' requires your right hand)
  Contrast that to the ability to just continue 'click click clicking' with the mouse. Sure, it seems like trival movement of the hands, but it interrupts the flow that people establish when performing their tasks.
  With the start menu, people with both hands on the keyboard could use your method, and people using the mouse could use their method. Without the start menu, people using the mouse must now switch to using the keyboard as an input device.
  
  --
  Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
49. Re:Wow... by VGPowerlord · 2013-05-14 08:20 · Score: 2
  
  Poorly written version detection is why Windows 7 self-identifies as 6.1
  Turns out that 6.0 (and 7.0) fail the old
  if (majorVer >= 5 && minorVer >= 1)
  idiocy that places were using to check if you were running XP instead of Win2K.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
50. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  They keep the major version number the same for application compatibility.
  From Wikipedia:
  "Windows 2000 code was 5.0 and then we shipped Windows XP as 5.1, even though it was a major release we didn't want to change code version numbers to maximize application compatibility. That brings us to Windows Vista, which is 6.0. So we see Windows 7 as our next logical significant release and 7th in the family of Windows releases...There's been some fodder about whether using 6.1 in the code is an indicator of the relevance of Windows 7. It is not. Windows 7 is a significant and evolutionary advancement of the client operating system. It is in every way a major effort in design, engineering and innovation. The only thing to read into the code versioning is that we are absolutely committed to making sure application compatibility is optimized for our customers."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_7#Naming
51. Re:Wow... by AmiMoJo · 2013-05-14 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  The first time you log in to the computer it explains how to use the hot corners. In fact every single version of Windows going back to 95 has had a built in tutorial for new users that pops up annoyingly by default.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
52. Re:Wow... by Alarash · 2013-05-14 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  No. It's just faster to some people to type than to move a mouse on the screen. I wish I could use the same shortcuts on Ubuntu desktop for instance. I don't want to have to remember under which sub-sub-sub-menu some guy decided it made sense to file a shortcut, I'd rather just remember the name of the shortcut and type away.
53. Re:Wow... by Alarash · 2013-05-14 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  You are correct. But honestly for me it was the first thing I tried because I assumed they wouldn't remove that feature just because it doesn't show a big text field. I would have been mad if they did, and they didn't. If people are too stupid to make that experience that took me 2 seconds, then, yeah, Microsoft fucked up. And maybe they did, you have to account for the laziness and intellect for your user base.
54. Re:Wow... by Alarash · 2013-05-14 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  For me anyway, it's much faster to move my hand away from the mouse than to click 3 menus deep. I can't see how it'd be longer for anyone unless they are disabled. Have we come to a society where lifting your damn hand is too much effort?
55. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:33 · Score: 0
  
  Press Windows Key (to get to Start Screen). Start typing keywords about your setting ("C O N..."). Click Settings to isolate search results to just the setting page. Click on search result.
  Everything on the charms bar can be reached this way or through some other way. Devices when plugged in, for example, show up as a little notification in the upper right that you can click on to manage.
  It's a matter of simplifying and unifying things.
56. Re:Wow... by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  It's as obvious as anything else.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
57. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  While this is true, the API will probably return 6.x forever for compatibility reasons. Some application (installers) can't handle anything other than 6.x.So it's not really indicative of which version Microsoft considers Windows to be.
  Intel had to do the same thing with CPU families by the way, even Haswell returns CPU family 6 (Pentium Pro).
58. Re:Wow... by Cinder6 · 2013-05-14 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Concession? Hardly. 8.1 is akin to a service pack, if it's even that big. What's weirder to me is that the download is through the Windows Store, not the regular Windows Update.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
59. Re:Wow... by Angeret · 2013-05-14 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  You missed an input method... Now that Microsoft are working their way to their goal of remaking the PC as an Xbox with a subscription OS they'll likely be forcing the Kinect on everyone.
  Next up furious up & down motions with a fist to open any program. If you don't do it hard, fast or long enough, Kinect won't do anything.
60. Re:Wow... by Cinder6 · 2013-05-14 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Keyboard-based app launchers tend to be much faster than using a mouse, even with the scenario described. Don't forget that moving the mouse around is also wrist movement, and usually much more than moving your mouse hand to your keyboard. What I find interesting is that W8 feels like it has more concessions to power users than is typical. Using just the keyboard, I can fly around much quicker than I could with any previous versions of Windows, whether by keyboard or mouse.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
61. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:40 · Score: 0
  
  You have to press the button twice. ;)
  http://www.eightforums.com/attachments/f1/f11/3996d1331068351-search-windows-8-search-history.jpg
  Can you search for specific settings in the control panel? How easily can you filter it so you don't have to scroll through a fuckton of unrelated results (try typing in gmail, and watch several thousand emails come up when all you wanted to do was launch the application / shortcut)? Can it search within ALL applications? (see maps, music, finance section at the bottom)
62. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:46 · Score: 0
  
  s/Wa/Who
63. Re:Wow... by Cinder6 · 2013-05-14 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  More pinned icons without needing to clutter up your desktop is what I like about it. You also don't have to move the mouse around the screen--just use the arrow keys. And I couldn't care less that it takes up the full screen, as I brought it up to launch another application, meaning I don't need to see everything else I have opened already.
  
  --
  If you can't convince them, convict them.
64. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  i think that's more how programmers think vs how marketers think
65. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:49 · Score: 0
  
  ... isn't that the same for mac osx?
  considering everyone on it LOVES spotlight?
66. Re:Wow... by clarkn0va · 2013-05-14 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  Vista, 7 and 8 are just incremental upgrades to the same OS
  So on that note, is Windows 8.1 really Windows 6.2.1?
  
  --
  I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
67. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  I had to completely drop WIN 7 due to corruption and no choice but install WIN 8... I do not have a tablet or fancy phone, so I do not really use apps... I don't like the way I have to sign in and then go to my desktop... It has taken me serveral tries to figure out how to get to my own home page and not one that is chosen for me.... UGH..!! I really do not like updates and this one is one of the worst I have seen so far....
68. Re:Wow... by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 08:54 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I don't know about you but when I hit Start, Control Panel shows up right away as an option. If I right click on the desktop, Personalize takes me to Control Panel in a less direct way. The user can discover these things on their own without any knowledge of Windows 7. I discovered both in user 10 seconds. In Win 8, a user has to know to click on a specific corner (and know that clicking on a corner does something). It's not about the change; it is the lack of visual clues in the current design. Another example is how in Win 8, labels are flat exactly like buttons so to the user they don't know if clicking on something should perform an action. They are left to click on anything that resembles a button. That is poor UI in my opinion.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
69. Re:Wow... by clarkn0va · 2013-05-14 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Mojave, baby!
  
  --
  I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
70. Re:Wow... by gl4ss · 2013-05-14 09:08 · Score: 2
  
  I just find it much faster to type "Control Panel" than to move the mouse and click three or for times. This applies to both W7 and W8. To each their own I guess.
  you have to know to type that though.
  you might have faster time setting the setting from command line as well! if you only knew the command by heart in advance!
  beauty in windows 95 was that you didn't have to know shit about it, you didn't even need to know that control panel was where the settings were, you would find it soon enough behind start button.
  gestures, magic swipes etc. are appalling. it's not intuitive at all, but designers have come to realize that as long as it's different than before then they're designing and if it's not obvious then if they _say_ that it's intuitive they can get it through the design process(of course that really means that it's completely un-intuitive, just like the original ipod controlling system: there was _no_ way to know how the long presses worked and they were essential).
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
71. Re:Wow... by gl4ss · 2013-05-14 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  While this is true, the API will probably return 6.x forever for compatibility reasons. Some application (installers) can't handle anything other than 6.x.So it's not really indicative of which version Microsoft considers Windows to be.
  Intel had to do the same thing with CPU families by the way, even Haswell returns CPU family 6 (Pentium Pro).
  ..well, drivers work across the 6.x family too.
  oh and I hope ms makes it less of a hassle to install arduino etc random drivers in windows 8.. hate to boot for that.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
72. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  That's your problem... You are assuming power users. Do you know how many people I know who still go to the edit menu to select COPY and PASTE rather than using keyboard shortcuts or even right clicking?
  Ok, this is embarrassing. I'm a software engineer with 20 years of experience and an Ivy League education. I don't know what the Windows cut and paste hot keys are. I right click (hand covers face).
  Of course, I don't think it is completely my fault. In Linux/SunOS/Solaris/FreeBSD/etc., I highlight and then paste with the middle mouse button -- soooo much easier. :)
73. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:31 · Score: 0
  
  I don't wind the Windows 8 interface. For non-touch screen, I just move the mouse to the bottom right. I also place the control panel icon in the task bar along with Chrome, IE, the shell, the calculator, and the few other things that I use regularly.
  Windows 8 is not bad. Every time i touch a Mac nowadays, it feels somewhat backwards/old fashioned/aged to me.
74. Re:Wow... by DrGamez · 2013-05-14 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  How long do we have to support them?
75. Re:Wow... by DrGamez · 2013-05-14 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  (Psst. that "control panel" isn't really the control panel but A for effort.)
76. Re:Wow... by UneducatedSixpack · 2013-05-14 09:34 · Score: 0
  
  The lack of visual clues in windows8? What about iPad? My friend showed me what he could do with his iPad and I was impressed, but I would have never thought about gestures with 4 fingers :) I have never seen anybody complaining about iPad interface. Seriously, I have seen NO SINGLE TITLE that would say that iPad interface lacks visual clues. Anyway, as a desktop user I find the idea of tiles in start menu quite useless and guy/gal who came up with name "charms" for the right side menu should be beaten to death with pink fluffy teddy bears.
77. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  But 8.1 is a trivial change, it's not like it's a new OS. It's more like a tiny version of a service pack.
78. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:42 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No visual clues AND no documentation. You are either supposed to just figure it out yourself (not something that happens with the typical "I need something simple since I'm scared to touch buttons" user), or spent time researching online.
  There is oddly enough, a sort of tutorial added later, but you must first obtain an account and subscribe to the store (their entire goal with W8 is to get faces to the store). Not sure why they were unable to have this built in from the start, except that it's clear they had to whip W8 too soon before it was complete.
79. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  You forgot to use the phrase "clearly states".
80. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  And people keep using that ridiculous example of how cool windows is and how brilliant microsoft must be. You didn't need this feature in Windows xp or 7, because you could get things done quickly and easily without an excess of mouse clicking. Only after w8 turns out to be badly designed do the elitists pop out of the wood work saying how easy it is because they've been using an obscure and undocumented feature. (and if were relying on unobvious features, then you can get to control panel in 2 clicks)
  The upshot remains: W8 is badly documented, not very intuitive, and harder to use than before, and this remains true even if you do know some undocumented techniques.
81. Re:Wow... by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  My experience with the iOS and OS X is that knowing those additional functions like four fingers is nice. But to do every day functions, you don't need them. Like hot corners on a Mac can be mapped to activate your screen saver, show desktop, etc. It's nice to have that functionality but I can still get around without it. In Win 8, you NEED to know how to do basic things like change settings and the OS provides no clue that's what it should do.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
82. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  What's weirder to me is that the download is through the Windows Store, not the regular Windows Update.
  Get used to it. My money says when you get the update notifications from now on, clicking "install" will take you to the Windows app store.
  When their ads proudly shout that they sold so many licenses, they're telling the truth. You, the home user, are not their customers, the OEM who built the computer is.
  I'm sure they want to change that and have you, the user, actually be their customer. They're probably salivating at the thought of all those users becoming paying customers.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
83. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  Type whatever you want and then hope it matches something. Will "edit a file" bring up notepad? I doubt it will bring up notepad+ or emacs or word. Will "con" bring up control panel or a terminal console? What happens if you type "jane stop this crazy thing"?
  The typing is great if you're not near the mouse, you can type fast (I can), you already know exactly what it is you want to find, and windows isn't filtering out stuff that it thinks is unimportant but which you want to find. If this is how you use a computer, then you may as well just open up the command console and type there. Typing commands is a great solution for a well designed CLI based OS like Unix or VMS or a Lisp machine, but Microsoft has spent decades trying to convince people that GUI shells are superior.
84. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Because Windows 8 is only for power users, clearly. Well, maybe only power users who are deeply into full page social networking apps and live tiles. Mostly though I think Windows 8 is for power users to laugh at inferior people who still use a start menu.
85. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:57 · Score: 0
  
  Wow. MS had to change something that fundamental to their product because there are that many people who fail at the most fundamental concepts of programming logic?
  I thought I was jaded, but that surprises even me.
86. Re:Wow... by steelfood · 2013-05-14 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  WIndows 8 is optimized for touch screens. Obviously, touch makes everything all better.
  
  --
  "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
87. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  Clearly your start menu is flawed. The menu entries are far too tiny to be able to use with a touch screen accurately, and Microsoft research has predicted that everyone uses a touch screen and that keyboards and mice are for luddites stuck in the 70's.
88. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  At first you seemed insightful.... but then I realized you just kinda made up something and pointed out nothing. Example.....
  "Kinda like when those crazy places built those DOS disks that did the old ENV scan trick to discover whether you were running Windows 95 or a true DOS mode."
  (again telling us really nothing, yet seemingly insightful)
89. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  When your UI is so undiscoverable that people need to use search to get anything done, then you know you have a lousy UI.
  ...and REALLY lousy documentation.
  Of all the things Linux has that Windows lacks, they had to copy "lousy documentation"? It sounds like they finally bested Linux on that front, a first!
  Now if it would enter the password for me when I boot, (I live alone) and booted with everything open that was open when I shut it off, like my kubuntu tower does, I'll be less unimpressed.
  I do have to give MS credit for having a sense of humor, given the "Windows Blue" name. Hopefully for those who have to use it it will blow less after 8.1.
  I hear we're finally getting Windows 7 at work soon. I'm glad I'll be retired before they go to W8.
  I need to get off my lazy ass and put Linux on this W7 notebook, but I've been too busy working on that book to even log into /. (taking a break from it today).
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
90. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  Illogical. That's thirteen clicks/keystrokes replacing two clicks (Windows, CP on W7). It's very inefficient. There's no way it can be faster. And what do you do when you're in a word processing document and want to access CP?
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
91. Re:Wow... by UneducatedSixpack · 2013-05-14 10:19 · Score: 0
  
  I hate the default "metro" picture viewer too. It does not have the simplest feature like slideshow! WTF? Metro part of win8 is half-baked and the 5 image viewers ... it is just not windows. It is like some linux distribution with 25 crap-apps that cannot do one thing right.
92. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:26 · Score: 0
  
  You think that's bad? After my first 2 minutes trying to use Windows 8 I had to ask the sales guy at a big box store how to get to the "real desktop".
  A) I've been using computers since the 1980s and I have configured or used just about every common computing environment, command-line or GUI;
  B) I don't think I've ever asked those sales guys ANYTHING technical. Prices? Specials? Locations in the store? Sure. But this was the first time I asked them how something worked. Anything else I've just figured out on my own.
  You know you've done something profoundly wrong when you're equally confusing both the computer novices and the computer-fluent.
93. Re:Wow... by david_thornley · 2013-05-14 10:28 · Score: 2
  
  Have you timed this? Typing often feels faster than mousing, even when it isn't.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
94. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:31 · Score: 0
  
  Like they do with OSX?
95. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 10:34 · Score: 2
  
  Two words: mouse elbow. Microsoft doesn't document for shit these days and after using a computer for thirty years I don't want to fucking have to learn all over again!
  I learned to drive 45 years ago and only had to learn once, even though automotive technology has changed completely. If Ballmer took over Ford, he'd swap the brakes and throttle.
  At least, I don't want to relearn it without an overriding benefit, like when we went from DOS to Windows.
  Or Windows to Linux, great improvement. Windows can't hold a candle to it, and it was surprisingly intuitive because it was logically laid out and not hard at all to learn (the console is like DOS, but I only use it when I forget my root password).
  Your method is a bit more ergonomic, using only the keyboard. Using Office at work I not only get mouse elbow but my index finger gets sore from all the clicking.
  Microsoft seems to go out of their way to make the design as unergonomic and hard to use as possible. Glad I retire next year and only have my own computers.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
96. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  What I find interesting is that W8 feels like it has more concessions to power users than is typical.
  Using the keyboard doesn't make you a power user. Being able to hack the registry to make it do things Microsoft doesn't want it to do makes you a power user.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
97. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 10:38 · Score: 1
  
  Psst. That is very much the real control panel. At least sniff-test your own FUD before posting it.
98. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  Just an FYI that Windows key + C (think "C for Charms") is faster than moving the mouse to the corner -- especially if you're on a multi-monitor setup.
99. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Let's say you were browsing the internet and wanted to change something on the control panel. To do it your way means you have to take your right hand off the mouse and use it to type 'control panel' (or a portion of it. Though even 'co' requires your right hand)
  Contrast that to the ability to just continue 'click click clicking' with the mouse.
  I suppose you use the on-screen keyboard when typing anything into a web browser then.
100. Re:Wow... by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Do you know how many people I know who still go to the edit menu to select COPY and PASTE rather than using keyboard shortcuts or even right clicking?
  Oh, man, now I have to shut slashdot down because you made me think of work. There's an online database I have to put data into at work, so I just generate the data in my own database and copy and paste it into the online form.
  It won't let me right click and paste, I have to hit Ctrl-V. Fucking kids these days can't design their way out of paper bags.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
101. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  Only after w8 turns out to be badly designed do the elitists pop out of the wood work saying how easy it is because they've been using an obscure and undocumented feature.
  Windows Key + search string works the same in Windows 7 to find and launch applications, just like Command + Space + search sting in OSX. A lot more efficient than clicking through menus to find things.
102. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  Not really an assumption I made (i.e. I was addressing the parent in my post, not computer users in general)
  Why does a non-power-user even care about the control panel? The settings available in the charms menu suffice for regular users. And a power user who wants the control panel at all costs has countless of ways of getting there. *One* of those ways is different now. Grounds for a hissy fit I guess.
  Honestly, the slowdown in PC sales is a slowdown in PC sales -- not a referendum on Windows 8. We're at a point where personal computing technology has matured quite a bit and people don't run through computers quite like they used to. Microsoft's extremely long OS life cycles are also playing a part in it -- they are a software vendor that doesn't play the forced obsolescence game much. The anti Win8 noise is really just the typical Slashdot (who abhor anything Microsoft) and pro open source anti MS vox populi.
103. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  I find them pretty much the same, whether is start menu/start screen search or using spotlight, I can't understand why people are still clicking through menus to find things.
104. Re:Wow... by DrGamez · 2013-05-14 10:52 · Score: 1
  
  http://i.imgur.com/kDF2K9Z.png
  You aren't going to like the changes coming to blue.
105. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  First -- if you are willfully ignorant of simple things, you lose the right to clamor about design deficiencies in the UI.
  Second -- if you are even slightly honest, you will admit that the "highlight; middle-button-paste" paradigm has been so historically inconsistent across applications in Unix and Linux that you do not even have a leg to stand on if you're claiming that this is all you know.
106. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly, they probably listened to the morons on Slashdot when they made that change.
107. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:57 · Score: 0
  
  Type whatever you want and then hope it matches something. Will "edit a file" bring up notepad? I doubt it will bring up notepad+ or emacs or word.
  who the fuck is going to type "edit a file" to launch emacs? that string is wholly ambiguous and could mean just about anything, you are either being deliberately obtuse or a just a mental defective.
  
  The typing is great if you're not near the mouse
  or if youre searching for anything, if youre using the mouse to just browse through lists or tables to find what youre after then youre doing it wrong.
108. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:59 · Score: 0
  
  I understand its a big PITA when one touches that key whilst gaming. My son was very impressed when his new clicky Unicomp came without those keys. I was digging on the unlimited simultaneous-key-press factor of the ps/2 interface.
109. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  So your opinion is just continue supporting an inefficient workflow because people haven't changed? How many people do you think picked up an iPad and said "holy shit where's the mouse?", people adapt quickly to a new way of working especially if the old inefficient way is removed.
110. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 11:12 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you know the search string to type, and only if you need a lot of clicking in the menu. Control panel is only two clicks in W7 and W8, though in W8 it is more obscure to find the first click. Point stands though that the start menu is something that everyone sees, and XP and W7 came with tutorials and documents to explain how to use it. The Windows+type is not documented and not in any tutorial.
  Now if you can find a short way to shutdown by doing 'Windows+"shut me down now"' or 'Windows+"restart"' then that would be nice and an improvement over the current clumsy method.
111. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-14 11:36 · Score: 1
  
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say your chosen method is bad, whatever you find that is fast is great. So I am happy for you.
  
  Discoverability has to do with how easy it is to figure out if you don't already know the hotkeys. That is what I was criticizing.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
112. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-14 11:37 · Score: 1
  
  I don't want to have to remember under which sub-sub-sub-menu some guy decided it made sense to file a shortcut,
  This is the definition of undiscoverability.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
113. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 11:37 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you know the search string to type
  Which you generally do given it's the thing you're looking for.
  
  and only if you need a lot of clicking in the menu.
  Which you do unless you've got it pinned to the start menu, but if you were going to do that you probably pinned it to the task bar.
  
  Control panel is only two clicks in W7 and W8, though in W8 it is more obscure to find the first click.
  Yes that first click is different to what we have had for the past 15 years but that's no reason not to change, that's why they included the video tutorial at login.
  
  The Windows+type is not documented and not in any tutorial.
  Fair enough, but it sounds more like a problem with documentation than with the system, same on OSX, using spotlight is way faster than going through opening finder and choosing applications and then scrolling the list, but the shortcut isn't documented in a tutorial, then again who goes through the tutorials when you have google ;) people even complain that the UI is undiscoverable even though at login there is an unskippable video tutorial demonstrating how to open those hot-corner menus and such.
114. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-14 11:38 · Score: 1
  
  but any power user worth a dime would
  
  Any power user worth a dime would use Unix, but that's not what we're talking about here. UI discoverability, look it up, and don't design any software until you figure it out, please.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
115. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 11:53 · Score: 0
  
  FreeBSD is waiting.....
  Everything you want.... Nothing you dont. Easy to grab what you need from ports with a just a basic intro on how to install portmaster.
  I remember WinXP had a feature to select multiple programs in the task bar while holding control. Then right click -> close all. Vanished in Vista. For no good reason either. Win 7.... Nope. Win 8.... Nope. And now the power off command is like 5-7 actions depending on how you count!?!?!?!? (1. Goto top right bar, click and drag left. 2. scroll down to settings. 3. Find the power options in settings. 4. finally click the power setting you want. 5. Yes you're sure)
116. Re:Wow... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · 2013-05-14 11:57 · Score: 1
  
  Like in the past. Hit the "Windows" key, type "Control Panel", and it'll show up. I never had a problem with Windows 8 because in Windows 7 I always hit "Windows key" and started typing whatever I was looking for. Did you really have to Google that?
  I liked this feature better when it was called "DOS."
117. Re:Wow... by justthinkit · 2013-05-14 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  There is a folder structure off of "\documents and settings\YourUserName\". Copy your old application's .LNK file to the Desktop folder, for example, and the icon will appear on your desktop. There is a "\Start Menu" folder there as well as "\Start Menu\Programs\...etc...".
  .
  All of this could be done from any File | Open dialog, but I found it easier from a cmd.exe window. Was kind of a handy way of moving, cloning & backing up .LNKs, in its day.
  We now return readers to the 21st century...
  
  --
  I come here for the love
118. Re:Wow... by Brulath · 2013-05-14 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's a good idea to press Win+Q, type "Default Programs", open it and go to Set Default Programs, find Windows Photo Viewer, Adobe Reader, VLC/Windows Media Player, etc. add set all defaults to open with those desktop apps rather than the Metro apps. The last thing you want is for a non-technical user to get lost in Metro hell when doing something innocuous.
119. Re:Wow... by ianbnet · 2013-05-14 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is: if your UI is so discoverable that all you have to do is hit one key and then type whatever you're looking for and *boom* there it is, you know you have a great UI.
  This is the first thing I tell anyone about Windows (7 or 8). So simple...
  
  --
  --------------------- -me, Crusher of those who are Foolish (don't be foolish)
120. Re:Wow... by leetminiwheat · 2013-05-14 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  when you first log in as a new user, Windows 8 shows you a mini-tutorial about using the hot corners. you literally can't miss them, unless of course you missed it by logging in with someone else's account.
121. Re:Wow... by Belial6 · 2013-05-14 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  If you can read, you can find the control panel. It is right there on the start menu.
122. Re:Wow... by Swampash · 2013-05-14 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  if your UI is so discoverable that all you have to do is hit one key and then type whatever you're looking for and *boom* there it is, you know you have a great UI.
  Apple is "known" for their great UIs and yet it's far more difficult to find things on a damn mac, iphone or ipad than it's ever been on a windows device.
  Sounds like you've never actually used a Mac, iPhone, or iPad.
123. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 15:26 · Score: 0
  
  Well it was in the Control Panel but there is no apparent way to get to the Control Panel anymore
  Win-R + "control.exe" has worked since at least Windows 2000.... Still does.
  -AC
124. Re:Wow... by murrdpirate · 2013-05-14 16:15 · Score: 1
  
  Back in the real world, if your GRAPHICAL User Interface requires you to type the name of a program to start it, it's a lousy UI.
  It takes less time to type 4 keys than it does to navigate your mouse to the start button, left click, navigate to All Programs, left click, look for program name in list, navigate mouse to it, and left click.
  We don't do word processing by clicking letters with our mouse, even in a GRAPHICAL User Interface.
125. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 16:20 · Score: 0
  
  Click start menu.
  Click control panel.
126. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 16:52 · Score: 0
  
  1 key press; and 1 click to start Control Panel in W7.
  Instead of your 4 typed keys; then hunting through the list that pops up from the search (after waiting whatever time the search took - maybe your hard drive had to spin up to read the index?)
  Also; there is no guarantee that there aren't other matches for the word "Control" in your apps; and thus no guarantee that *typing* to search for something will quickly find what you want. Because it changes every time you install something.
127. Re:Wow... by murrdpirate · 2013-05-14 17:16 · Score: 1
  
  Instead of your 4 typed keys; then hunting through the list that pops up from the search (after waiting whatever time the search took - maybe your hard drive had to spin up to read the index?)
  The 4 typed keys for me are the Window key, first two letters of program, and then the enter key. Occasionally I have to type the first 3 letters of the program for a total of 5 keys. I'm not hunting through a list at all. And for me, the search has never taken longer than it takes me to type the 4-5 keys (a second or less). I know that at least some things in Windows search are constantly stored in memory and do not require the hard drive. I'd guess that the names and locations of programs make the cut, just as I assume they'd do when you click on All Programs in Windows 7's start menu.
  
  Also; there is no guarantee that there aren't other matches for the word "Control" in your apps; and thus no guarantee that *typing* to search for something will quickly find what you want.
  Honestly, how often do you think the first word in an app matches the first word in another app? Maybe 1% of the time? And even in that case, are you honestly saying it takes more time to hit window key and type 2 words than it takes to navigate your mouse to the start button, left click, navigate to All Programs, left click, look for program name in list, navigate mouse to it, and left click? .
128. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 17:23 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you know the search string to type
  Which you generally do given it's the thing you're looking for.
  But if you aren't sure then the start menu helps. If you're an expert, then you don't need anything to help. The issue isn't how to make a power user's life more convenient, but how to help out the masses who are using the OS. The fact that you're using the search rather than using something that's an icon or pinned means that it is a rarely used application or file.
  Often you aren't exactly sure what you're looking for. For example, what's the name of the thing that optimizes your hard drive? If you know then it's just "defrag". However I typed "defragment" and the search was empty (if I had typed more slowly I might have seen it show up before I typed the "m" to erase it). "Hard disk" just says that no apps match my search. In Windows 7 I just quickly browse to system tools and look at the list of utilities to find what's reasonable.
  Big drawback I noticed, typing the "Windows" key immediately puts you in the abysmal start screen instead of sticking to desktop.
129. Re:Wow... by bemymonkey · 2013-05-14 17:37 · Score: 1
  
  How is "It's right there in the fucking start menu" not apparent? o.O
130. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:37 · Score: 0
  
  Edit menu, huh?
  So you're saying the Ribbon sucks.
131. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 17:57 · Score: 1
  
  Often you aren't exactly sure what you're looking for. For example, what's the name of the thing that optimizes your hard drive? If you know then it's just "defrag". However I typed "defragment" and the search was empty (if I had typed more slowly I might have seen it show up before I typed the "m" to erase it).
  Arguably that should come up, though it is categorized so if you bring up Control Panel, which is where you would expect to find such things, (and it's telling that the focus immediately goes to the search box whereas in Windows 7 it doesn't) and then type 'defragment' it comes up. Having it come up in application search would be good too though.
132. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 18:17 · Score: 0
  
  Are you an idiot? Right click the desktop, personalize, desktop background. Pretty much same as it ever was (except in XP it was called Settings or something instead of personalize).
  Or you can just do it directly from most web browsers.
133. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-14 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  There is oddly enough, a sort of tutorial added later
  There is a video tutorial right at the start, the first time a new user logs in, you can't actually skip it.
134. Re:Wow... by Technician · 2013-05-14 19:18 · Score: 1
  
  Missed Windows ME. Wonder if that was 4.1
  
  --
  The truth shall set you free!
135. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 20:18 · Score: 0
  
  There's no visual clue that's what she should do. It's also not a matter of getting used to change; there was no obvious clue that a specific corner shows you Settings.
  Nobody is born knowing that swiping down in iOS brings the notification bar or swiping left/right changes to a different set of icons. Nobody knows what the top right icons _ [] X mean without someone telling them. Nobody knows what drag and drop is without someone telling them.
  Whenever you introduce something new, people have to learn. No, you can't always have visual cues.
136. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 20:47 · Score: 0
  
  yeah free update 'through the operating systems app store', in other words you pay in privacy
  what windows update is now outdated?
137. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 22:00 · Score: 1
  
  but any power user worth a dime would...
  Any power user worth a dime would use Unix, but that's not what we're talking about here. UI discoverability, look it up, and don't design any software until you figure it out, please.
  Regarding Unix -- you're welcome to your own dumb biases no matter how idiotic they make you sound. Power users don't give a fuck what OS it is -- they thrive regardless.
  Regarding UI discoverability, it's laughable how you manage to sound so smug and yet not know your ass from your elbow. The first time you hit the Win key you will "discover" that it takes you to the new start page. The first time you hit any letter/number key on that screen you will discover that it filters programs. Get the fuck out of here with your condescending bullshit.
138. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 22:14 · Score: 1
  
  Had to reply to this again. This works the same way in Win8 that it did in Win7 (and in fact the same as in Vista). Do you even realize how monumentally stupid your comment was?
139. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 22:27 · Score: 1
  
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say your chosen method is bad, whatever you find that is fast is great. So I am happy for you.
  Wow. Condescending prick is condescending.
  
  Discoverability has to do with how easy it is to figure out if you don't already know the hotkeys. That is what I was criticizing.
  Oh really? So you're going to lecture people on what discover-ability is? Did you pause to consider that the method he mentions worked the same way in Vista and Win7 as it does in Win8 before you embarked on making an ass of yourself while trying to sound superior about it?
140. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-14 22:34 · Score: 1
  
  You're being pedantic. Seriously. You're clinging desperately to the menu system and calling it undiscoverable.
  Win8 has done away with the thing you're triumphantly calling undiscoverable. It's replaced it with an easily discoverable method. This same easily discoverable method already existed in Win7 and Vista. So it's discoverable-to-the-max as something that's existed and is well-known for years now, and it does away with a method that was not scaling for hundreds upon hundreds of apps.
  But I'm sure you'll come back with some stupid one-liner thinking it makes you sound like you know what the fuck you're talking about. Insufferable.
141. Re:Wow... by Dcnjoe60 · 2013-05-14 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  They literally say it is a free update in the very first sentence of the article, which is cited in the second sentence of the summary (which says the same thing).
  
  The upcoming Windows Blue update, now officially known as Windows 8.1, will be delivered as a free update through the operating system's app store, Microsoft confirmed today.
  Per the announcement by Tami Reller, it will be a free update for "consumers" However in the next statement they talk about making Windows 8.1 the best experience for both consumers and business users alike. There is no mention of it being a free update for business users and it is highly unlikely that corporate America is going to have everybody log in to the Windows app store to upgrade.
  However, time will tell.
142. Re:Wow... by IndustrialComplex · 2013-05-15 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  I only type in the browser when I absolutely need to type in the web browser.
  For most of my web browsing, it's a pure click interface. Even on Chrome, I click on a new tab, and my most visited websites show up as thumbnails. Slashdot has a thumbnail, XKCD, Gmail, etc.
  The removal of the button would be like Chrome suddenly removing all the tabs for websites and requiring that I type the first letters of the address in the addressbar every time I wanted to open a website.
  It's not that one method is better than the other for all people, it's that there used to be two methods, and one was eliminated because people were told that the other method is better for you, therefore you must use it.
  
  --
  Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
143. Re:Wow... by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, because all the applications installing to /Applications, and being immediately accessible with cmd+shift+a, or in Launchpad with one click, is pretty hard to find. Or using cmd+space to be able to search for anything, anywhere, and open / launch it directly from the results. Or just drag and drop it once you find it onto the dock, and forever more be able to single-click it as soon as you're logged in.
  Yeah, Mac OS is really hard to use and find things.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
144. Re:Wow... by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  You mean besides hitting the button that no longer says "Start" on it, but is in the same location as the Start menu that everyone already knows, and then immediately seeing "Control Panel" in the resultant menu?
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
145. Re:Wow... by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but that only shows you how to get the useless "Charm" bar to appear, and then tells you to try clicking in other corners and see what happens!
  Because people have nothing better to do than try to figure out how their new computer works, when they already know how to do it before it changed to a less intuitive version.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
146. Re:Wow... by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:35 · Score: 1
  
  On my Win8 partition, the Start tile screen thing has three tiles on a 27" display: Desktop, Chrome, and Steam. The rest is a sea of neutral grey.
  Then, I installed Classic Shell to get the functionality I really want.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
147. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-15 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's a good thing swearing makes you look smart. Otherwise I might not know how wrong I am. (Look! A three liner!)
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
148. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 04:42 · Score: 0
  
  4.9, if I am not mistaken.
149. Re:Wow... by bjs555 · 2013-05-15 04:55 · Score: 1
  
  I always liked the old Turbo Pascal type interface with a menu along the top that you navigated left to right along with the arrow keys. When you got to the menu item you wanted, the down arrow key opened the menu for that item. That type of interface was popular just before Win 3.0 was released. It seemed to me that Windows interface of the time was about the same except you used the mouse instead of the arrow keys. The mouse seemed slower to me mainly because of the time needed to move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse. I suppose that kind of interface still exists in the CMOS settings screen and, to this day, I prefer it to the mouse.
150. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  At first glance I thought that read Windows for Whorehouses.
151. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  Honestly, how often do you think the first word in an app matches the first word in another app? Maybe 1% of the time?
  Way to pull numbers out of your ass. The peanut gallery applauds!
152. Re:Wow... by hazydave · 2013-05-15 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft has a problem. Only 100M Windows 8 licenses sold, less than 60M actually being used for Windows 8 (all enterprise and some pro licenses include downgrade rights... big companies buy Windows 8, but they're still installing XP or Windows 7). They also have the problem of being seen big, slow, and stupid. Apple's doing one iOS and usually one MacOS upgrade per year, and not charging big bucks. Android has been even faster, with usually two major releases per year.
  Microsoft can't take them on head to head on a 3-year upgrade schedule. So the old "Service Pack" sounds like a bug fix. Now it's going to be a new incremental OS update.. which they thought, briefly, about charging for. They did this before, with Windows 98SE... no idea why, but there's history. But they have clearly decided that, whatever's in this update, the value to Microsoft in getting this out (perhaps selling more Windows 8.x copies, necessary to get developer support) is worth far more than they'd make selling 60M update packages.
  The danger, of course, is that this is seen as just another service pack. They need to deliver the kind of punch you see from Android 4.1 to 4.2 or the numerous MacOS upgrades. They might... but some of that's going to be selling it, and most of those to new users who avoided Windows 8. Though given how bad Windows 8 is, after the lesson of Vista, I wouldn't place any bets...
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
153. Re:Wow... by Darinbob · 2013-05-15 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  I don't remember this tutorial at all, so had to review it with a video. You're basically told how to move the mouse to a corner, but not much more than that. Very stripped down compared to the W7 tutorial. I don't think MS was trying to assume everyone would figure it out or that they thought it was all obvious, but I do think they shipped before it was really ready and the tutorial was one of the things that didn't make the cutoff.
154. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-15 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  It's a good thing swearing makes you look smart. Otherwise I might not know how wrong I am. (Look! A three liner!)
  On the other hand, sarcasm doesn't make you look smart. Nor does skirting the actual issue.
155. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  So you're trying to say that MS comes up with their software versions to selectively break or not break 3rd party software. This sounds absolutely rediculous and yet you have been modded Insightful +5
156. Re:Wow... by wildstoo · 2013-05-15 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  I'll just leave this here.
157. Re:Wow... by exomondo · 2013-05-15 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  Each to their own I guess.
158. Re:Wow... by Meski · 2013-05-15 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  If you want to consider how the engineers inside Microsoft think of the code base,
  
  They'd need to have their sense of smell removed, for one.
159. Re:Wow... by Meski · 2013-05-15 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  I'd still wait for Windows 8.11 for workgroups. Maybe they'll add a proper command line and support x forwarding natively. Windows for Whorehouses.
  Fixed.
160. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-15 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  I willingly concede that I am incapable of explaining discoverability to someone like you.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
161. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-15 19:19 · Score: 1
  
  I willingly concede that I am incapable of explaining discoverability to someone like you.
  The snarky replies got old a long time ago and you can drop them now. Respond with substance, or not at all.
162. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-15 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  If I have to know the words "control panel" before finding it, then that is not discoverable. GTFO.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
163. Re:Wow... by rex.clts · 2013-05-15 19:40 · Score: 1
  
  Missed Windows ME. Wonder if that was 4.1
  Those are NT version numbers. Windows ME was not an NT-based operating system (it was the same as 95/98).
164. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-15 19:50 · Score: 1
  
  If I have to know the words "control panel" before finding it, then that is not discoverable. GTFO.
  What setting were you trying to change? Try typing that. Little more intuitive. Perhaps even discoverable. Even saves a step. You're clutching at straws. GTFO indeed!
165. Re:Wow... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 21:15 · Score: 0
  
  Except that's Vista not 7...
  Also - Quake 3, really?!
166. Re:Wow... by Marillion · 2013-05-16 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  Touché
  
  --
  This is a boring sig
167. Re:Wow... by jones_supa · 2013-05-16 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  That is not Vista. You can configure Windows 7 to show full labels too by going to "Taskbar and Start Menu Properties" and selecting "Taskbar buttons: Never combine".
  And Quake 3... absolutely! When it comes to classic deathmatch, Q3 and Unreal Tournament 2004 are the bees knees.
168. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-16 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  And this is exactly why I was being neither sarcastic nor snarky when I said this: "I willingly concede that I am incapable of explaining discoverability to someone like you."
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
169. Re:Wow... by asylumx · 2013-05-16 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't say anything about a graphical user interface, I spoke specifically about the entire user interface. You added "graphical" to build your strawman and troll some mod points.
170. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-16 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  And this is exactly why I was being neither sarcastic nor snarky when I said this: "I willingly concede that I am incapable of explaining discoverability to someone like you."
  Back to being snarky because you've run out of substance? If you have a point, and any conviction in it, don't be afraid to make it. Sometimes it takes more than half a sentence.
  OP's post was about finding Control Panel -- which assumes knowledge of this abstract concept in Windows (from having used previous versions of it). You were unable to defend your initial stance so you decided to move the goal posts by considering a user who is not familiar with this abstract concept, and your accusation of it being "undiscoverable" still fails. Whether it's by using the old flow (windows key, and start typing) or whether you "discover" that swiping in from the edges brings you various menus, then "discovering" that one of those will always have a cog icon with the word "settings" below it, or "discovering" that same menu also has this thing called "control panel" above it that sounds like it just might have something to do with configuring your computer -- your assertion fails, and fails hard!
  You want to discover? Explore the UI for 5 minutes and you will discover tons! But no -- you want to spout nonsense about power users preferring Unix (god knows which 'discoverability genius' designed the various Unix UIs over the years), reply with snarky one-liners, skirt the issue by saying you can't explain shit to someone like me (by which you mean anybody that doesn't agree with you). Fucking fool!
171. Re:Wow... by phantomfive · 2013-05-16 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  Please never design anything.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
172. Re:Wow... by dhavleak · 2013-05-16 12:09 · Score: 1
  
  Please never design anything.
  Still no substance then?
  Please never assume you are even capable of evaluating design, never mind telling people who should and should not be involved in it. Even your comments are worthless -- it's not even possible to discuss a design properly with you because your comments only contain smugness and snarkiness, but no substance.
Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:44 · Score: 5, Funny

As long as it's a closed development ecosystem where you have to pay to play, and MS gets to profit from your work, all I have to say is FUCK MICROSOFT. I'm sticking with my MBP.
1. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:45 · Score: 0
  
  "Score: 11, Funny"
2. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:50 · Score: 0
  
  Am I really the only one who sees the irony here?
3. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:18 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Am I really the only one who sees the irony here?
  Yes. Most of us saw the humor.
4. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  No. It just takes quite a lot of time for actual human beings who care about rights and have a free will, to find out, what MBP is supposed to mean. ManBearPig? Mandatory Black Person? Major Basic Protein?
  Then you notice it could be "My Big Penis", and then in becomes clear...
5. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by DarthVain · 2013-05-14 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  MacBook Pro came up 2nd on the Google search.
  While Major Basic Protein came up first, the later makes more sense given the context...
6. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:06 · Score: 0
  
  You're not never intelligent then. This is a tech community talking about a computer company. Even a child would have searched for "MBP computer" before the acronym on its own.
7. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, Mac Book Pros is the 1st 10 links when searching for "MBP computer"
  So that's why it's ironic that someone ranting about the eco system would choose an MBP computer.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
8. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:13 · Score: 0
  
  My MBP is running 8. and i like it. majority of my games play. Steam and otherwise. can't find the bluetoothe tho. sweet how dosbox is necessary to run Wing Commander... in Windows. thanks GOG.com for having it preloaded.
  Runs OSX externally. it's kinda dusty tho...
9. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  "MBP" is mac book pro? In macs the "walled garden" is optional, you never need use it even once and it's tricky to find. Whereas in W8 the walled garden is required to get free windows 8.1 update, and is required to use the Mail application, probably other important things.
10. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 14:56 · Score: 0
  
  tsk tsk.. and you post under an actual nick rather than AC, shameful. The actual search term in google should be "MBP site:slashdot.org". Mac Book Pro comes up 1st.
11. Re:Fuck the Walled Garden by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you are, as there is no irony to be seen. Mac development tools have been open for quite some time. Feel free to use emacs and llvm to develop OSS code targeted for Darwin as you please.
  Short version: Mac != iOS
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by TWiTfan · 2013-05-14 05:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

Stop saddling me with your damn phone interface and we'll see.

--
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
1. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by rodrigoandrade · 2013-05-14 06:23 · Score: 2
  
  The newest version os Stardock Start 8 completely bypasses the Modern interface (in the old version, you could still see it flash on the screen during boot), disables hot corners, charms and everything that we hate about Win8.
  It basically turns Win8 into Win7 with the new Win8 tweaks under the hood.
  Best of all, it's only $5 bucks. If this Blue update doesn't bring me what I want, I'll definitely buy a legit version of Start8.
2. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by VortexCortex · 2013-05-14 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe I can Start loving Windows again
  Stop saddling me with your damn phone interface and we'll see.
  Yeah, the phone-thing can be a problem... If you do start loving windows again, make sure you get proper protection, or at lest prop it up with a hypervisor box so don't ruin your 'hardware' when it comes crashing down, if you know what I mean...
  Protip: The windows that you can crack open using a special tool is the best -- You can adjust for tightness.
3. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by spire3661 · 2013-05-14 06:45 · Score: 3
  
  Why not just use Win 7?
  
  --
  Good-bye
4. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Hadlock · 2013-05-14 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  Win8 offers cool features like storage spaces/drive pools (poor man's software raid) and hypervisor (Virtualbox)
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
5. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by PopeRatzo · 2013-05-14 06:59 · Score: 2
  
  Why not just use Win 7?
  He already answered you:
  "... the new Win8 tweaks under the hood."
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
6. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  I love their phone interface... on my phone. It infuriates me on my workstation.
7. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Mike+Frett · 2013-05-14 07:36 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Duh, because 7 will be EOL soon, updates will stop, vendors will halt driver development etc. Windows isn't Linux, at least if a distro is at EOL, someone usually back-ports updates. You just can't compare Open Source to Closed Source. Also, in true Microsoft fashion, you won't be able to get previous updates either, they love to remove all references to self help. Not to mention the DRM and questionable privacy issues related to Law Enforcement and Governments.
  I'm sorry, after 15 years of Microsoft, instead of another forced upgrade; they actually forced me to a better Open Source OS. I quickly found that I could customize the look in any way I see fit, I have the exact same functionality as I did in Windows. There is nothing I miss, except the Hand Cuffs. And after a Year of use so far, I can't understand why people still use Windows, or I do, but their reasons are invalid.
8. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by dgatwood · 2013-05-14 07:44 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Stop saddling me with your damn phone interface and we'll see.
  Hear, hear. I put up with those sorts of interfaces on my phone because of what it is. The interface inherently must be limited, or else it would not be usable on a tiny screen when operated by big, clumsy fingers.
  When I'm on a computer, I have a nice, big screen, a mouse, and a keyboard. There's plenty of screen real estate to use for things like multiple windows with scroll bars and title bars, tabs, navigation controls galore, etc. There is no good reason to be stingy in terms of your user interface. If I wanted a limited UI, I would have bought a tablet in the first place.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
9. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by PhxBlue · 2013-05-14 07:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That's nice, but Windows 7 works just fine. So why would I pay to upgrade to Windows 8, then pay more to remove functionality I don't want from the software?
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
10. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:57 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sorry, after 15 years of Microsoft, instead of another forced upgrade; they actually forced me to a better Open Source OS.
  Let me guess Ubuntu? lol.
11. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:14 · Score: 0
  
  Because Windows 8 pro updates were like $30? $30 for a under the hood performance boost isn't bad where I come from.
12. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by VGPowerlord · 2013-05-14 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sorry, after 15 years of Microsoft, instead of another forced upgrade
  Fun fact: Windows XP has been around for 12 of those 15 years and is still supported until April next year.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
13. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by chipschap · 2013-05-14 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  The newest version os Stardock Start 8 completely bypasses the Modern interface (in the old version, you could still see it flash on the screen during boot), disables hot corners, charms and everything that we hate about Win8.
  It basically turns Win8 into Win7 with the new Win8 tweaks under the hood.
  Best of all, it's only $5 bucks. If this Blue update doesn't bring me what I want, I'll definitely buy a legit version of Start8.
  That's all well and good, but why should you have to go to that trouble to fix something that should have worked right in the first place? (By the way, I have the same objection with Unity in Ubuntu, so it's not like I'm taking sides in this case.)
14. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  Duh, because 7 will be EOL soon, updates will stop, vendors will halt driver development etc. Windows isn't Linux, at least if a distro is at EOL, someone usually back-ports updates. You just can't compare Open Source to Closed Source. Also, in true Microsoft fashion, you won't be able to get previous updates either, they love to remove all references to self help. Not to mention the DRM and questionable privacy issues related to Law Enforcement and Governments.
  I'm sorry, after 15 years of Microsoft, instead of another forced upgrade; they actually forced me to a better Open Source OS. I quickly found that I could customize the look in any way I see fit, I have the exact same functionality as I did in Windows. There is nothing I miss, except the Hand Cuffs. And after a Year of use so far, I can't understand why people still use Windows, or I do, but their reasons are invalid.
  7 gets Extended Support (i.e. updates) until 2020, neckbeard.
15. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  Win7 is most definitely not going EOL anytime soon. A lot of businesses including corporations with 50k+ seats are still on XP, and are only reluctantly upgrading to 7 because they have to due to XP finally going EOL.
16. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by tepples · 2013-05-14 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Because new PCs not made by Apple or System76 ship with Windows 8, and an individual can't easily build a laptop from parts.
17. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by hot+soldering+iron · 2013-05-14 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  Win 7 ISN'T working fine, for me or a lot of other people. I'm having hell trying to get Win 7 to see SMB shares on my network, mostly a couple of SANS. Some installs will see it fine, some won't see it even if you sacrifice a baby seal to the dark gods. XP, Vista, and Win 8 can all see them. This is the one thing that Win 8 actually has going for it. Otherwise, it sucks balls, too.
  Win 98 was the last version where you could actually find the hidden data MS was collecting on the users (mostly username/passwords, IP addresses, and filenames). XP was the last system where you could actually go in and build a custom minimal graphical OS in ~50 MB of drive space. Now, If MS doesn't bless it, you can't have it.
  I don't care for Apple Corp. any better, but they do have nice hardware design. They abuse their acolytes just as badly, though.
  My newest self-built system goes from power-on to login in about 25 seconds, and nothing is still loading 5 minutes later.
  
  --
  When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
18. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Osgeld · 2013-05-14 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  so nothing of use
19. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Osgeld · 2013-05-14 17:04 · Score: 1
  
  yes, cause look and feel absolutely makes up for 30 years worth of software that doesnt run on OSS, fuck they dont even have an office suite that is on par with office 2003
  see there are bigger customers than some joe faping on slashdot saying he can mix the 4 or 5 default themes with a new font and still listen to his MP3's
20. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:08 · Score: 0
  
  oh some clown is using an oss hack compatibility layer and doesnt have it set up correctly, must be MS's fault then randomly changes subject to 16 years ago and brings up more personal failures, again MS's fault
  re
  fucking
  tarded
  go back to the strip mall you got your education from and demand your 800$ back, if they still exist dumbshit
21. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:30 · Score: 0
  
  Because Windows 8 is better once you get Start8. There are a lot of improvements under the hood. It is lighter and faster. It has vastly improved task manager, and vastly improved file manager. It even finally can mount ISOs. Making Windows 7 as functional as Windows 8 means installing a bunch a 3rd party tools, and lots of tweaking. Windows 7 is full of all kinds of bugs. There is a bug with Explorer not always refreshing files properly. There is a bug with backing up custom libraries. How many Windows 7 bugs did 8 fix? Plus 8 comes with much better recovery tools. The niceties add up over the years to make it worth it. I've been using it for years, long before the preview builds, started with leaked builds from before they even had Metro. Those leaks came out 2 years ago. The little things add up.
22. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 02:07 · Score: 0
  
  Lemme guess, you're one of your shitty and useless .NET/.NOT "programmers" that didn't have the intelligence to use a real language.
23. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  Because Win7's EFI boot is a hash of new uEFI calls and 30-year old BIOS interrupt calls to initialize devices. Win8 fixes this.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
24. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by PhxBlue · 2013-05-15 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  Not denying Windows 8 is improved -- from everything I've heard, it is, except for the gods-awful user interface. But that user interface is the show-stopper for me, because none of the bugs you mentioned affects my daily use of Windows 7. And I'm not going to pay to buy Windows 8, then pay more to fix a defect in the product as it was sold. That's just garbage.
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
25. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by tjstork · 2013-05-17 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  Because Windows 8 desktop is better than Windows 7 desktop. The file dialogs are better, file copying is handled better. customizations are better. It's just better and in a lot of nice and subtle ways. If MS had just not done the tile thing, and added the store as an icon on the desk, windows 8 would have been a nice upgrade.
  
  --
  This is my sig.
26. Re:Maybe I can Start loving Windows again by PhxBlue · 2013-05-17 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  I fully agree. But the UI is more than an inconvenience -- it's something that I would have to relearn. So in addition to the monetary cost of buying the upgrade, I have to invest time and energy (a different and more valuable currency) as well.
  
  --
  !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
Heh by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:45 · Score: 0

Windows Blue.. the makeup version.. we're really sorry this time
So what comes next? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:45 · Score: 1

Windows 8.11
Windows 9
Windows X
Stable 356 - Masturbating Manatee
The New Windows
1. Re:So what comes next? by Vanderhoth · 2013-05-14 05:54 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Windows Classic
2. Re:So what comes next? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8.11
  Windows 2015 (released December 2015!)
  Windows 2018
  Windows Decade Edition
  Windows 360
  Windows Infinite
  Windows 10
  Windows 11
  Windows 11.1
  Windows 11.11
  Windows 2025 (released December 2025!)
  Windows 2028
  Windows Decade Edition 2
  And so on...
3. Re:So what comes next? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  Windows Zombie Edition
4. Re:So what comes next? by The+Grim+Reefer · 2013-05-14 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  Windows RG
5. Re:So what comes next? by slash.jit · 2013-05-14 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  No.. it will be Windows Red Windows Green Windows Yellow unless they change their logo.
6. Re:So what comes next? by jfdavis668 · 2013-05-14 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft Bob (Metro version)
7. Re:So what comes next? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  It'd be golden if MS decided to change the name of Windows to something entirely different but along the same lines- imagine if they decided that calling their OS, "Panes" would be more trendy. (Of course, it sounds better than it reads)
  
  "When you first boot up, you're introduced to the pane"
  "There are lots of panes in this desktop"
  "Wow!! that's a huge pane!"
  "This pane won't go away.."
  Desktop mgmt in Control Panel might be referred to as "Pane Management" ..
8. Re:So what comes next? by Rastl · 2013-05-14 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft Bob (Metro version)
  I think that would be Microsoft Robert.
9. Re:So what comes next? by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  That's Sir Robert of Bloatingham to you, user.
  I actually like much about win 8, but I can't resist that joke.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
10. Re:So what comes next? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 15:46 · Score: 0
  
  After Window X, it should be:
  Windows X 10.1 Kitten
  Windows X 10.2 House Cat
  Windows X 10.3 Tomcat
  Windows X 10.4 Alley Cat
I'm afraid I just blue myself. by dstyle5 · 2013-05-14 05:45 · Score: 1

Hopefully they add more functionality to apps, make the store useable on PCs, etc, etc. And of course there is that Start menu thingy...
Good move by HalAtWork · 2013-05-14 05:45 · Score: 1

Definitely a good move. Charging the users to get back their start button wouldn't have eased any of the tension over Windows 8.

--
Twinstiq, game news
1. Re:Good move by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:56 · Score: 0
  
  They blew it with the meaningful version increment. Talk about a lost opportunity. They could have bumped up the version to 20 -- for absolutely no reason at all. That's how you do a proper software release in 2013.
2. Re:Good move by JaredOfEuropa · 2013-05-14 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  It's not even sure yet if 8.1 will include the start menu and boot to desktop. By the way, I (and many, many others) installed a little thingy to bring back those features. Wouldn't it be a laugh if MS, instead of giving in to the complaints, broke the desktop/start menu applets to force people to Metro?
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Too little, too late? by gstoddart · 2013-05-14 05:46 · Score: 1

I wonder if this has any chance of actually saving Windows 8.
I find it amusing they were so out of touch with actual users they decided to go ahead with this in the first place.
I've never even seen Win 8, but I certainly have seen the stories and people saying how much they dislike it ... not even sure if what they're restoring even puts a dent in the dislike for the product.
This is the kind of about-face which usually indicates the company made a stupid choice and are now trying desperately to pretend like it didn't happen.

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
1. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:54 · Score: 0
  
  My guess is that there's no about-face. Microsoft has been so tight-lipped about features that don't involve Metro fixes that it leads me to believe they're not going back on anything.
  They can't just dump Metro - there's a complete ecosystem of apps dependent on it. It's very small, but it's not like they can abandon it. That would be like Apple just discontinuing the entire iOS line and saying "Sorry, your iDevices are useless."
  If they bring back Aero and let me boot to the desktop, I'll upgrade. They can keep the Start menu but I wouldn't complain if it was back.
2. Re: Too little, too late? by mikesd81 · 2013-05-14 05:54 · Score: 1
  
  There's nothing to save. People will go with Win 8 because there is no alternative other than Mac. And that's not what a casual person is willing to spend. And MS knows IG.
  
  --
  That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
3. Re:Too little, too late? by SJHillman · 2013-05-14 05:55 · Score: 2
  
  Most of those stories you've heard are also from people that have never seen it. I upgraded from 7 to 8 for about 4 months. Metro is annoying, but very easy to suppress with any of a dozen third party Start menu replacements (most are free). I had some stability issues, but they got a lot of patches out pretty quickly. I did run into a few oddball problems, such as you can't run apps that use Silverlight if you have Client Hyper-V installed (Silverlight still works fine in browsers for Netflix) but they've likely fixed most of those by now. The only other major issue I ran into is that Intel-SRT showed no improvement in Windows 8 compared to running off just a hard disk, but it worked great with Windows 7. It could be because Windows 8 does tend to run faster on the same hardware. I'll probably wait until 8.1 has been out a month or two and then upgrade again from 7 to see if they've fixed all the little annoyances I had.
4. Re:Too little, too late? by Dcnjoe60 · 2013-05-14 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Windows 8 had to be released when it was so they could push their tablets and phones. It wasn't ready for the desktop, but could be made to work. Now, it appears it is ready for the desktop. Time will tell.
5. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:23 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I've never even seen Win 8, but I certainly have seen the stories and people saying how much they dislike it ...
  It's funny, because other than these kinds of statements and initial reviews from online rags, I've only heard average to good things about Windows 8 (in comparison to XP or 7). That is, everyone I've talked to who's actually used it - y'know, the people whose opinion I value because they've actually got experience with what they're talking about - had two complaints:
  1) "I didn't like the start screen at all." Well, then I got used to it. I also pinned the stuff I normally use on the desktop to the taskbar. These are people that have next to know computer skills. They got used to it very quickly, and stopped complaining.
  2) "I miss the start menu". Then I pinned all my stuff to the taskbar and it didn't matter anymore. Because, y'know, most users don't need 2,557 shortcuts on a start menu, but when they do they simply hit "search" on the charms bar and get the same damn thing if they really needed it.
  That's it. Otherwise, every single of them - from 20 years IT folks to grandmothers - say it's faster, and I have yet to hear anyone say they've gotten a blue screen (admittedly, I have... I also have heat issues due to overclocking).
  Personally? I think Windows 8 is moderate step up from Windows 7 in speed, with a moderate step down in GUI.
  When asked, I tell people that if they're buying a new machine to have no fear of Windows 8. If they're running a legit copy 7 or XP, I tell them to wait it out for Blue. If they're running a pirated copy, I told every single person I know to buy the damn thing for 20 buys at the time.
  Now, since I don't know anyone that actually uses Slashdot since about 2009, perhaps the people I consult, work with in a professional relationship, or drink with in bars is different than the expectation here. However, given Slashdot's steady decline as of late (far more pronounced than Microsoft's), I'd have to say that you're likely in the minority, or will be within the next year.
  * Posting anon for obvious reasons.
6. Re:Too little, too late? by lister+king+of+smeg · 2013-05-14 06:37 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  They can't just dump Metro - there's a complete ecosystem of apps dependent on it. It's very small, but it's not like they can abandon it. That would be like Apple just discontinuing the entire iOS line and saying "Sorry, your iDevices are useless."
  It is far more likely than you think, they have already killed zune, they killed all of those windows phone 7's saying to their customers "yeah our bad you won't be able to update the phone you just bought sucks to be you." Oh and then there was the playforsure debacle. They pushed silverlight and have now nearly abandoned development of it. So Microsoft could throw framework/interface formally known as metro to the wolves on a whim at anytime they want and it would just be par for the course.
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
7. Re:Too little, too late? by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 06:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  For those of us who have used Windows find 8 annoying because of the changes that were made that hamper our ability to use it as a desktop. For complete novices they don't have to change their behaviors, but Win 8 fails here because it provides you no clue on what to do. For example, how to make changes. You have to click on one of the corners to get "Settings". How in the world is anyone supposed to know that?
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
8. Re:Too little, too late? by spire3661 · 2013-05-14 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  They just need to push Metro to the background like Apple OSX App store is done. If i dont invoke it, i NEVER see Launchpad on OSX. Make metro so i can ignore it on my machine if i so choose.
  
  --
  Good-bye
9. Re: Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:59 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Year of Linux on the desktop?
10. Re:Too little, too late? by sootman · 2013-05-14 07:14 · Score: 1
  
  > Metro is annoying, but very easy to suppress with any of a
  > dozen third party Start menu replacements (most are free).
  And you count yourself among the "happy" users of 8, and consider this a "good" story?
  
  --
  Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
11. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:17 · Score: 0
  
  If you are posting on /. you don't qualify as an average user.
  "Metro is annoying, but very easy to suppress with any of a dozen third party Start menu replacements (most are free)." Not easy for too many of the users I know. You know the ones that don't know what the other mouse button is for . . . or that wheel in the center of the mouse . . .
12. Re:Too little, too late? by jo_ham · 2013-05-14 07:23 · Score: 2
  
  They just need to push Metro to the background like Apple OSX App store is done. If i dont invoke it, i NEVER see Launchpad on OSX. Make metro so i can ignore it on my machine if i so choose.
  The problem is that Metro is the new start menu.
  It would be like Apple dumping the Dock and saying "Launchpad or GTFO", which they clearly didn't do because they realised people who have been using OS X for years would find that annoying and baffling. (I too, do not use launchpad, but I know some people who love it - see what choice does for you?!)
13. Re:Too little, too late? by Scarletdown · 2013-05-14 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  That would be like Apple just discontinuing the entire iOS line and saying "Sorry, your iDevices are useless."
  More like them saying back in the late 80s, "Yes. We know you Apple II users invested a good chunk of change in our new Apple IIGS, and we appreciate the revenue you generated for us. But still, fuck you. We aren't providing much at all in the way of support and no viable upgrade path. So just go ahead and pay another couple thousand on a Mac."
  
  --
  This space unintentionally left blank.
14. Re:Too little, too late? by SJHillman · 2013-05-14 07:26 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I'm counting among the people who gave Windows 8 a chance rather than going in hating it already. I ended up going back to Windows 7 (as I said), but I don't think 8 is the disaster that so many people claim it to be.
  People treat it like a house with a cracked foundation and rotting trusses when it really just needs new siding and maybe a few non-structural walls moved.
15. Re:Too little, too late? by Wookact · 2013-05-14 07:40 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Really, I find it interesting that all of the "IT folks" that I know have all disparaged the metro interface. Even the ones that like it, will voice support for the ones who dont, after all there was no reason to remove features.
  
  Perhaps you don't actually have to work with any customers that know 0 about computers. I do. I have customers that could not tell you what version of windows they use. Hell when I try to use the start button to narrow it down, is it a blue circle or a green oval, they get confused. I do NOT need another interface to hold hands though. I do NOT want to waste the time teaching all of my users how to do something that they have been doing for 15 years.
  
  I hate windows 8 not because I have to get used to it, but because I have to help every single one of my customers get used to it. That is the major issue. This issue would not have existed if they had left the option to boot to desktop, and left the windows orb in the corner. Now get off of your high horse please. Ohh and the reason you posted anon is obvious. You know you are wrong and are trying to avoid any negative moderation.
16. Re:Too little, too late? by DocSavage64109 · 2013-05-14 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft abandoned their Plays for Sure DRMed music after 3 or 4 years when they released the Zune that, of course, can't play it.
17. Re:Too little, too late? by gl4ss · 2013-05-14 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  They can't just dump Metro - there's a complete ecosystem of apps dependent on it. It's very small, but it's not like they can abandon it. That would be like Apple just discontinuing the entire iOS line and saying "Sorry, your iDevices are useless."
  It is far more likely than you think, they have already killed zune, they killed all of those windows phone 7's saying to their customers "yeah our bad you won't be able to update the phone you just bought sucks to be you." Oh and then there was the playforsure debacle. They pushed silverlight and have now nearly abandoned development of it. So Microsoft could throw framework/interface formally known as metro to the wolves on a whim at anytime they want and it would just be par for the course.
  they have far more riding on the ecosystem right now. by far more I mean billions of dollars.
  to the tune of 30% of all desktop software revenue. nobody just cares because everyone hates metro. don't get me wrong, they might(will) eventually abandon metro, by easing it into something bearable and having the metro apps be runnable in windows and so forth.. but the aim was always just to use it to get people into the ecosystem, not the sw environment itself (which itself was done in a hurry, and is easy to develop for and ok in some aspects - but quite limited for the same reasons).
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
18. Re:Too little, too late? by future+assassin · 2013-05-14 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  Metro is annoying, but very easy to suppress with any of a dozen third party Start menu replacements (most are free).
  This should have read
  Metro is annoying, but very easy to suppress with any of a dozen free Linux distros that come with a start menu.
  
  --
  by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
19. Re: Too little, too late? by walterbyrd · 2013-05-14 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  > People will go with Win 8 because there is no alternative other than Mac
  Stay with Windows 7?
20. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 12:35 · Score: 0
  
  Er, there's a large number of Android phones that have never had an update released. They never even said "our bad".
21. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 14:01 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe the guts of the system are decent but navigation and functionality of the UI is extremely bad.
  Most people end up ALT-tabbing out of places that seem unescapable and that is just terrible.
  I gave Win 8 a try for a month and it was really frustrating so I hope they make major changes.
22. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 20:54 · Score: 0
  
  right, so you're anecdote explains how you found things annoying, and had to install a 3th party addon to get basic features right. ... yet you don't think windows 8 is a house with a cracked foundation
  seriously?
23. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 21:02 · Score: 0
  
  metro is not a startmenu, it's active desktop and taskbar 2.0,
  the functional equivalent of the old startmenu is the search charm
24. Re:Too little, too late? by SJHillman · 2013-05-14 22:56 · Score: 1
  
  Some people know enough to distinguish the UI, which is where 99% of complaints are, from the rest of the operating system, which only has a few bugs that have mostly been patched. By what you're saying, Linux is garbage because Ubuntu has a crappy UI.
25. Re:Too little, too late? by Ash-Fox · 2013-05-15 01:00 · Score: 1
  
  Go on strike?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
26. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 01:35 · Score: 0
  
  Most people want a house they can live in, not one they need to renovate before they move in.
27. Re:Too little, too late? by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, because Microsoft has never just dumped entire developer ecosystems in the past (Zune, PlaysForSure, Kin, Sidekick)
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
28. Re:Too little, too late? by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  There are still very real problems with Win8.
  1. Multimonitor is worse than it was before. The stupid tile display, even though it's designed to scroll horizontally (which would coincide with how the overwhelming majority of multi-display setups are) will only work on one screen. The task bar thing is mirrored on both displays, which wastes screen real estate showing you the exact same thing in two places simultaneously. When the tile display is up, the other display still shows your desktop; but if you click on it, it jerks the other display out of the tile thing back to the desktop. You cannot interact with a desktop app on one display, and Metro / Modern / WTF ever on the other simultaneously; which would be the only reason I can think of for this single-display tile scheme, unless they are just lazy and didn't want to deal with screen scaling and positioning.
  2. There are real problems in hardware drivers. Windows Update tries to force an ancient version of Nvidia display drivers down over newer versions of drivers, which install without you knowing about it, and blowing up your video config until you either disable the update from ever running, or perform a system restore. See: http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/310.54/310.54-win8-win7-winvista-desktop-release-notes.pdf (buried on page 29). I have two different Nvidia cards in my box, which works great on Win7 and other OS families; but I can't load the drivers on both cards at the same time without a blue screen in Windows 8. So, the one I only use for desktop stuff has to use a "Standard VGA Display Device" driver (a.k.a. frame buffer out) in order to be stable. Again, works great in Windows 7 with no hassle whatsoever.
  3. Microsoft is clueless when it comes to supporting EFI. Windows Setup will not work if you have any other EFI-based OS installed, or if any of the EFI system partitions that may be present have not-Windows on them. If you physically disconnect those drives, it then works. If you need to use the "automatic restore" and it sees an EFI system partition that has not-Windows on it, it will give you an error saying to need to choose which version of Windows you want to repair, and then not give you any way to do that. Again, physically disconnecting the drives resolves this. Having to disconnect hardware in order to get OS tools to function is complete shit, and the only way it could be worse is if it actually went and ruined those other OS installs while attempting to install / repair Windows 8.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
29. Re:Too little, too late? by SJHillman · 2013-05-15 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  I found multimonitor (five displays, three resolutions, from three video cards) to be an improvement over Windows 7, although it still has a ways to go before it matches all of the features found on third party programs.
  Drivers were an issue, but I saw a huge improvement between when it was first released and three months later so I'm hoping that trend has continued. I don't have any experience with EFI and Win 8 so I can't comment on that.
30. Re:Too little, too late? by SJHillman · 2013-05-15 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe if you live in the rich part of town. Where I grew up and the three cities I've lived in/near since, people usually do some sort of renovation before moving in. Some people just paint, other people tear up the carpet, others still go all out. But I don't know anyone that moved into a house exactly as it was when they bought it.
31. Re:Too little, too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 14:26 · Score: 0
  
  And maybe doorknobs and windows. Stairs would be nice too.
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by binarylarry · 2013-05-14 05:48 · Score: 2

Here's part of it: http://www.classicshell.net/

--
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Hmm... by TrashyMG · 2013-05-14 05:49 · Score: 1

Maybe this year will be the year for Windows.. so far not anything that will keep me away from Linux.
Windows Store? why not windows update? by Joe_Dragon · 2013-05-14 05:50 · Score: 1

Windows Store? why not windows update? and will there BE ISO for clean / fress install and or upgrades from 7
1. Re:Windows Store? why not windows update? by SeaFox · 2013-05-14 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Because they want to catch all those people who weren't tricked into getting Microsoft accounts by the original Windows 8 installer and saw that they could in fact just choose a "local account" and not have something quite so easy for Microsoft to datamine.
2. Re:Windows Store? why not windows update? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  Never do an OS upgrade except on a clean install.
  -voice of experience
3. Re:Windows Store? why not windows update? by Joe_Dragon · 2013-05-14 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Because they want to catch all those people who weren't tricked into getting Microsoft accounts by the original Windows 8 installer and saw that they could in fact just choose a "local account" and not have something quite so easy for Microsoft to datamine.
  that sounds like a big enterprise trun off to need a MS account to get all your updates.
4. Re:Windows Store? why not windows update? by stooo · 2013-05-14 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  Never do an OS upgrade without a binary backup image
  - voice of ubuntu
  
  --
  aaaaaaa
5. Re:Windows Store? why not windows update? by SeaFox · 2013-05-14 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  >that sounds like a big enterprise trun off to need a MS account to get all your updates.
  You're right. Maybe we'll get an actual separate download that doesn't require a Microsoft Account for Win8 Pro then (which is what I'm running).
They should really just use the code names by jdkc4d · 2013-05-14 05:50 · Score: 1

I have long thought that the code names they give their products, are somehow more interesting the the name they give their release products. With as much press as we have seen about "Windows 8," I would think they would want to distance themselves from that name. Why not call it Windows Blue? Whistler, Longhorn, etc. These were all better names than what they came out with.
1. Re:They should really just use the code names by MrEricSir · 2013-05-14 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  I can agree that "Windows Blew."
  
  --
  There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
2. Re:They should really just use the code names by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:29 · Score: 0
  
  Mojave!
3. Re:They should really just use the code names by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  Hey, none of that smoke 'em peace pipe shit here, chief squatting frog.
So are they really fixing it this time? by bobbied · 2013-05-14 05:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

Running Windows 8 at home has been an exercise in asking "How did that get though testing?" questions.
I have observed a number of bugs in the current Windows 8 that cause me to seriously doubt Microsoft's Quality control processes. My running favorite issue is how the Parental controls are exceptionally easy to bypass (just a mouse click at the right time and my son has unlimited time despite how the system is configured.. ) Come on Microsoft... Windows 8 was mostly a GUI adjustment to that metro aka touch screen interface... No real kernel changes from Windows 7.. You need to test a bit better kids.
Windows 8 was not properly tested prior to release, I'm guessing because they rushed it to market. Hopefully 8.1 won't be as rushed and they will actually TEST some of this stuff a bit better this time.

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
1. Re:So are they really fixing it this time? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  I probably would have moved to it in an instant if it did not corrupt my MP3's.
  http://www.smallfish-bigpond.com/2010/03/windows-media-player-12-corrupts-non-standard-id3-tags/
  http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itpromedia/thread/5ba4df81-29ac-43ad-8920-764faf3c6835/
  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76998
  Been reported (by myself for win7 and win8 and win8 beta) before win7 was out of beta and still not fixed. Everyone assumes it was the OTHER corruption and it was fixed.
  Still corrupts txxx tags.
2. Re:So are they really fixing it this time? by fermion · 2013-05-14 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Although past experience does not guarantee future events, MS has been very good at messing new release. At his point I consider it the users fault for buying upgrades. Everything was mostly junk to 3.11 for workgroups. Then all the releases of the MS DOS based MS Windows were junk. (The late 90's was a wasteland for PC OS, with the orginal Mac OS and Windows both being in a slump). In the interim if you would deal with the incompatibles, MS Windows NT was the only real OS. I skipped MS Windows 2000 as well. XP by SP2 was the next good MS Windows, which served for many years. MS Vista was predictably horrible, and Windows 7 was predictably pretty dammed good if I am forced to admit it. It is the best thing MS has come up with this millennium.
  Of course they do not learn, so Windows 8 is bad. It might be fixed with a service pack, in the way they fixed XP. But even XP has serious problems that kept it from being used as a real OS, the way that NT could be. Windows 7 fixed many of those problems.
  My big concern now is that MS wants to be on the yearly subscription model, which means that they are going to mess up the OS every year. For businesses that can downgrade, or for consumers that know to wait or look for older model computers, that is fine. For consumers that just by whatever MS is selling, we are taking about the mayhem caused by MS Windows 98 all over again.
  
  --
  "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
3. Re:So are they really fixing it this time? by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  I strongly feel that they rushed this. Like too many software products the release date is decided upon before development is even underway. Every single one of the builtin metro apps that I could try had significant design problems, usability problems, or had bugs. I couldn't try them all as some required a microsoft account ot use (such as Mail, how amazingly stupid is it to require an additional account for this, except as a means of either spying or forcing more eyeballs to the store). The apps look nice but are fluff. Many have reduced functionality compared to the desktop counterparts. Many have reduced functionality compared to a basic website that does the same thing. And for full screen apps on a very large monitor there is an amazing lack of information on the screen.
  The metro apps very honestly remind me of meeting presentations. Projected up onto a large screen so the whole room can see it clearly, with limited and distilled data so that not too much thinking is requred. Seriously, every single metro app that comes by default could be used with a projector in a meeting room and not feel out of place.
Windows Store by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:54 · Score: 1

The last thing I want to do is create / log into the Windows Store.
Will the upgrade be available through alternate means... such as normal windows update?
1. Re:Windows Store by istartedi · 2013-05-14 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  Amen. I hope they have the common sense to wipe every last trace of their mis-guided Apple envy from Windows. The Windows Store should be fully voluntary, and when the inevitable tumble weeds start rolling through it, they can shut it down and there will be a little 3-line blurb on some tech blogs.
  
  --
  For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
2. Re:Windows Store by slashmydots · 2013-05-15 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  "Apple envy" and "the store should be voluntary" are awfully close in that statement up there to not have you realize that Apple is 5x worse at that. If you have an i-device, you better have an apple ID/account and use the itunes app store or you aren't going to be doing very much on it. Windows 8 on the other hand can do just about anything without a marketplace account.
Or, as it will be known at release... by Tony · 2013-05-14 05:57 · Score: 1, Troll

The official launch name will be Windows Apology.

--
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
1. Re:Or, as it will be known at release... by stanlyb · 2013-05-14 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Sorority.
My guess is that MS will compound their error by gestalt_n_pepper · 2013-05-14 05:58 · Score: 2

Unable to admit mistakes, there will be no start button that brings up an easily navigable menu. There will be a bitmap that brings up the desktop or something equally stupid/lame.
In other news, Microsoft will give developers no clue as to their long term language strategy. Developers, with no interest in investing limited time, money and resources into Microsoft language technology shambles, will go elsewhere. Top managment at Microsoft will continue to be baffled as to why nobody is writing Windows 8 Apps, or Windows anything apps, anymore.

--
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
1. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by DogDude · 2013-05-14 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  In other news, Microsoft will give developers no clue as to their long term language strategy. Developers, with no interest in investing limited time, money and resources into Microsoft language technology shambles, will go elsewhere. Top managment at Microsoft will continue to be baffled as to why nobody is writing Windows 8 Apps, or Windows anything apps, anymore.
  
  Do you have some stock that you like, by any chance? I have some credit available on my margin account, and was looking to short something.
  
  --
  I don't respond to AC's.
2. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  There already is a tile (bitmap) that brings up the desktop... that would involve ZERO effort since it's already in place in Windows 8... certainly not worthy of a service pack. I thoroughly dislike Windows 8's interface, but the desktop exists, and is accessible by a tile on the start screen (I hate that term) or simply by pressing the windows key on the keyboard which switches from one to the other, a third way is the lower left corner switches between the two as well. the metro tile screen is not a different workspace, it's a full screen horrible start menu. and It's entirely possible to avoid all together, my home workstation which is running a stock windows 8 pro (I installed it to learn the interface and see how to do things in it), hasn't been to the start screen in several weeks. I haven't had the need. Chrome works great (even if it kills the full screen IE 10, I still haven't found a way to bring that back) heck even office 2013 works great, (thankfully 2013 isn't metro)
  my keyboard shortcuts still work. It's usable. that's about it...
3. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by Merk42 · 2013-05-14 07:09 · Score: 1
  
  I'd like to ask this question of you, and everyone else that feels the same:
  How is the start screen worse than the start menu other than "it's different"?
  Don't give me some all change is good/bad response, that's not what I'm asking. Also I don't use Windows myself so I don't really have an opinion regarding Windows 7's UI to Windows 8's
4. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by gestalt_n_pepper · 2013-05-14 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  For narrow domain searches like installed software, I simply find a hierarchically organized series of visible prompts to be a faster alternative than a series of tiled blocks that I need to scan. Typing the name of the program to find it, as Unity on Linux does is all well and good, if you remember the name.
  
  --
  Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
5. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by UltraZelda64 · 2013-05-14 08:09 · Score: 1
  
  I think you're right.
  
  Although Microsoft isn't listing the exact feedback, Reller admits that the company has heard the cries for a Start button. "We have heard that, we definitely have heard that and taken that into account," she explains. "We've really also tried to understand what people are really asking for when they're asking for that."
  http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/7/4306328/windows-8-1-release-date-pricing-windows-blue
  Nothing is going to change. They appear to be making every attempt to avoid the actual problem in an effort to make it seem that they are actually concerned; yet, when it comes to bringing the actual Start menu back in its traditional form, it appears that there's no chance of that happening. They are too busy trying to come up with some new abomination, which will only serve to piss even more people off and cause even more confusion. They refuse to acknowledge that all people want is the Start menu back in its previous form, by clicking a button in the corner of the screen. They are trying their damnedest to somehow "prove" that they were right all along by trying to find and somehow "fix" a problem that doesn't even exist.
6. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by gl4ss · 2013-05-14 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  I'd like to ask this question of you, and everyone else that feels the same:
  How is the start screen worse than the start menu other than "it's different"?
  Don't give me some all change is good/bad response, that's not what I'm asking. Also I don't use Windows myself so I don't really have an opinion regarding Windows 7's UI to Windows 8's
  it breaks the context flow of whatever I was doing, involves longer mouse travel and more importantly moving my eyes around more than start menu - EVEN if start menu is so full of crap it's two rows side by side. it's like going to a console window from x to launch a program in x.
  or in another way, imagine if the icon size on your kde/gnome/whatever app launcher was so big, that you had to scroll with a scrollbar at the bottom of the screen when you wanted to run an application you run twice a week - and the icon changed it's appearance because it's monday. And while doing it you were subjected to an advert for travel to rio de janeiro - and imagine bunch of things in that app launcher coming visible only if you move your mouse to a specific spot on the screen(which you might know if you installed the sw on the machine and watched the tutorial video - yes, it's so intuitive that you need a fucking video to explain how to get to the control panel that handles 30% of control panel stuff).
  that's the windows 8 start menu.
  Imagine if you had a pdf reader built into your os! really nice, right? no more downloading shit from adobe, brilliant!? now imagine that same reader being able to display just one pdf at a time and being unable to keep it open while configuring something that you need the pdf to configure.
  I use classic shell and literally have to go to the metro maybe once in a forthnight, which is why I hadn't yet thrown the "travel" tile to the curb, which had a fairly pointless blurb that rio de janeiro exists on it. and to open the github client yes I have to scroll a full screens worth of icons right . sure, I could just type it there, but why the fuck bother? the app itself I'm opening isn't usable with keyboard anyways. could just as well do run as from the desktop and what's the fucking point of a beautiful full screen distract-o-touch-orientale-launcher if the most effective way to use it is by keyboard typing in magic words... and why isn't a normal, foldered app launcher such a chore? it's one continuous mouse movement flow that gets me to the app, eyes don't have to wander around the screen - the screen isn't reset completely when opening the start menu - so if I go through the metro way I have to scan the whole 55" screen with my eyes 3 times and make 3 mouse movements that have no relation to each other(open the start screen by moving mouse to bottom left - btw I keep my start-bar on the side, so this hardcoded corner is just shit-, check that the app I want isn't there straight away, move the mouse to the scrollbar, move and scan the screen again, if I find the app then move the mouse to the app..)
  windows 8 ain't all bad though. it's brilliant, old windows sw works better than ever, opengl and all. as long as you never touch the metro parts it's good. there are some things for which it's unavoidable and you have to use the metro side, like booting to a special mode to install unsigned drivers. why do I use it at all? well.. can't install windows phone 8 sdk without it. it's not like the sdk couldn't run in 7, but any reason to force upgrade is a good reason to force upgrade for ms.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
7. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 21:20 · Score: 0
  
  for starters the new start screen is not a functional replacement for the startmenu, it's a functional replacement for "active desktop+ taskbar"
  the functional replacemetn for the startmenu (i.e. the thing where you can find all installed software) is now the search charm
  as to how it's worse, lets give some examples:
  - it used to be that the contextmenu for a startmenu item was right at your mouse
  now if you rightclick something in the startscreen you have to move to the bar with options that appears at the bottom of the screen. While that works reasonably well on a touchscreen small enough to hold in your hand, it is ergonomically unsound (AND fucking annoying) on a big desktop screen, let along a multimonitor setup.
  - used to be that to close a window you clicked the little cross in the upper corner, now you need to drag your mouse to the top of the screen, wait for drag handle, then drag it all the way to the bottom of the screen. again this works fine on a small touchscreen, it is hell on a desktop
8. Re:My guess is that MS will compound their error by GravityStar · 2013-05-15 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Let's say I have a few programs open, and I'm in some kind of workflow (for instance; programming with an IDE, an image editor, a browser and a word document). In this case, switching to the Start Screen takes a lot of mental effort: it is a complete context switch on screen (all my programs disappear from view), and somehow triggers a complete context switch in my mind. Even accessing the start screen once feels very tiring and laborious.
store only? by anthony_greer · 2013-05-14 05:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Will there still be a stand alone MSI for those of us who have multiple PCs to update? Enterprise or not, updates of this nature need to be available to install on non connected PCs, and I would also like to be able to have it on my USB utility drive so I can upgrade customers/family who have Win 8 PCs.
1. Re:store only? by mlts · 2013-05-14 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  I'm going to guess that this is MS's way of making service packs more palatable -- call them free minor version upgrades.
  Assuming this is the case, they likely will have a MSI or some .exe which can have its component files extracted for speed reasons to a share and machines pointed there for updates.
  I hope for a WIM or a way to slipstream this into an install image, so if a box needs reinstalled, W8.1, perhaps with the latest Windows Update patches can be done in one pass.
2. Re:store only? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  Will there still be a stand alone MSI for those of us who have multiple PCs to update?
  If you are asking for a standalone because you have customers to support, then you are long overdue for setting up a WSUS server. It's not the 90s anymore...it's time to stop running around with a usb drive to each machine for every patch.
3. Re:store only? by jeffclay · 2013-05-14 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  You do know that the old service packs were downloadable as an executable and
  
  which can have its component files extracted
4. Re:store only? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:25 · Score: 0
  
  Will there still be a stand alone MSI for those of us who have multiple PCs to update? Enterprise or not, updates of this nature need to be available to install on non connected PCs, and I would also like to be able to have it on my USB utility drive so I can upgrade customers/family who have Win 8 PCs.
  do you hate ms manager execs? why do you want to piss on their bonuses? why don't you want to artificially boost the store statistics??
5. Re: store only? by jawtheshark · 2013-05-14 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Can I have a WSUS server that doesn't involve shelling out for a Windows Server license?
  
  --
  Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
6. Re:store only? by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  Their goal in windows 8 is to drive people to the store so that store apps get used and they make money. If there is a way to just stick to desktop and never interact with their store, then microsoft will soon find a way to remedy that bug.
7. Re: store only? by smash · 2013-05-14 17:26 · Score: 1
  
  Do you run a Windows network with a decent number of PCs without multiple Windows servers already? The time saved will pay for the Windows server license within a few months.
  
  --
  I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
8. Re:store only? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 17:58 · Score: 0
  
  I wouldn't count on that. I've had to install MS Office 2013 from scratch on two separate occasions, once with Microsoft's own support (product key card purchased from a store) and once with mid-level technical support from a Microsoft Gold partner (software was not pre-installed as ordered); in both cases, I was unable to capture any form of install/reinstall files of any format. Reinstallation is available from Microsoft's online store at the low-low cost of hours of download time.
9. Re: store only? by jawtheshark · 2013-05-15 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  A dozen... It can be done manually and I ain't getting a server, even if I wanted one. The mantra of my boss is: I pay you anyway, you can do it manually. So, that's what I do. Windows on the desktop is okay in a business setting, but on the server I really rather have Linux or another Unix. WSUS should be implemented on *nix, so you can avoid Windows on the server entirely. Of course, I do realise that's wishful thinking.
  
  --
  Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Free upgrade after registering personal info by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 05:59 · Score: 0

Sure, free on-line upgrade, just capture your credit card and personal data to activate offer in the store
Will they address feedback by onyxruby · 2013-05-14 06:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

The single biggest question is whether or not they will address feedback from the masses on two things that they have been repeatedly told were very bad ideas?
Restore the start menu (not just bounce you back to TIFNAM)
Boot directly to the desktop
If they don't address these two issues with an option to allow both the enterprise is going to continue their mass boycott of Windows 8 for years to come. Microsoft has been particularly stubborn on these points, even though they are dragging the PC industry down with them by being pig headed about things. Microsoft, can your arrogance be overcome?
1. Re:Will they address feedback by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  Those questions were already answered.
2. Re:Will they address feedback by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:03 · Score: 0
  
  Metro isn't that bad as a start menu replacement. It's just irritating to get to it from the desktop view right now. Not everyone agrees with you.
  I find it annoying to get to the control panel or to do many things. They need to make more things metro or get rid of it.
3. Re:Will they address feedback by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  I'll add to your wishlist:
  1) Allow disabling of "hot corners throw into metro interface".
  2) Option to run "metro" apps in windows on the desktop.
  I'd probably buy it instead of evaluating Linux distros that haven't been taken over by "UI Designers" and gone the same route as MS.
4. Re:Will they address feedback by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 11:08 · Score: 0
  
  How about having to drop to CLI in order to manage your wireless networks? O.o
5. Re:Will they address feedback by ImprovOmega · 2013-05-15 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  TIFKAM - The Interface Formerly Known as Metro. Also double minus points for requiring the use of a contextual acronym translator that had to be adjusted for phonetic acronym reductions.
  OTOH I think we may have found a new question to feed into the Turing test. Watson! Translate the acronym formerly known as TIFNAM!
Windows Blew. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:05 · Score: 0

At least they were honest about it.
Some things never change. by neoshroom · 2013-05-14 06:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

Personally, I'm going to wait for Windows 8.1 for Workgroups...

__

--
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
1. Re:Some things never change. by shafty · 2013-05-14 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  Parent should be modded Funny not Insightful. Geez moderators, WOOSH over your head.
2. Re:Some things never change. by mu51c10rd · 2013-05-14 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  That will be Windows 8.11.
3. Re:Some things never change. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 16:17 · Score: 0
  
  Modded up "insightful". WTF. Am I missing something?
Meh. by Penguinisto · 2013-05-14 06:12 · Score: 1

We'll see. Windows 8 has already lost the WinTel empire at least one customer that I know of (my missus tried+hated Windows 8, and she opted for an iPad instead.)
Me, I'll wait to see what happens. I can't see Ballmer's ego marching things back to a full-on Windows 7 (and TBH, before)-style interface (in spite of enterprise pretty much demanding it), so I suspect that whatever comes of it will (at risk of trolling, but just IMHO) reek of a duct-tape job, with a start button lashed in somewhere but with Metro still all over the thing.

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
1. Re:Meh. by ColdWetDog · 2013-05-14 06:48 · Score: 2
  
  Nothing wrong with duct tape. Nothing at all. Keeps much of the known universe functioning.
  A big step up, actually.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
2. Re:Meh. by hoboroadie · 2013-05-14 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  I had enough of Vista on the ol' lady's P.O.S., and installed Windows 8. I got a lot of grief for that faux pas.
  Suddenly, Slackware became a viable option, woot! So she is going to Linux, and since she has cheap instincts, she'll probably never go back. Hahaha. Haha.
  
  --
  They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
What really happened by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:13 · Score: 3, Interesting

Windows 8 was a classic marketing trick. Company has a brand new product. Company has an existing, highly successful, product. Company uses latest version of existing product to 'trojan horse' the new product into customers' lives. After promotion period is over, company once again restores familiar version of original product.
Only problem is that Microsoft has messed up this age old tactic in every way possible. The 'freebie', Metro, RT or whatever the marketing goons at MS fail to call it, was neither wanted nor valued by existing users of Windows. Unlike the free issue of a new magazine that arrives with the current issue of your current magazine subscription, Metro offered nothing useful to anyone. Metro was designed for touch tablets, but Windows 8 mostly sold for non-touch desktop and notebook systems.
You must know this. Originally, full blown Windows 8 was set to be released for ARM computer devices, but then Microsoft accepted an extraordinary pay-off from Intel to delay this inevitable move for another year+. The high managers of Microsoft cancelled the plans for Windows on ARM, instructed the teams to cripple the ARM version of Windows to Metro only, and switched to the 'trojan horse' promotion of Metro on proper Windows 8 installs. The end result was the biggest marketing disaster in Microsoft history, and Intel's pay-off does nothing to change this.
The irony is that ARM devices DO have full blown Windows 8 on them, which is activated by very minor hacks, but the perception of the ARM devices as Metro only, combined with obscenely high prices, meant the Metro ARM tablets didn't sell at all. No hardware base means no-one cares to develop Windows 8 code apps for ARM (which, by the way, is trivial using Microsoft's ARM tools).
Now, ordinary Windows 8 (known as 8.1 for a short periof, before reverting back to 8) will be returned to Windows 7 desktop functionality. Metro will be (to all intents and purposes) repositioned exclusively as a 'mobile' platform. Curiously, this will happen at the same time as Microsoft prepares to release a proper version of Windows 8 for ARM- but then ARM is about to become commonplace in notebook and desktop systems as the old x86 market dies.
Microsoft is correct in thinking that the traditional, multiple window interface of desktop computers is a poor match for mobile devices in their touch screen mode. However, touch screen devices are rapidly becoming 'hybrids', becoming notebooks when docked to a keyboard, and tablets when used without. It is natural that these two modes of use can switch between two interfaces, AT THE USERS DISCRETION.
Microsoft's biggest problem is that they still expect to make each user pay loads of money for Windows. This is rather like the old 2D SVGA graphics companies like Hercules expecting PC users to still pay loads of money for the 2D graphics hardware. Established computer tech, hardware or software, tends to lose all value across time. Your 2D hardware once cost you hundreds of dollars, but now costs just a few cents. The OS should, likewise, be effectively free. Microsoft should be making its money from 'services' by now.
MS knows that moving to tablets means finally accepting that an OS has minimal value. It also knows that with the growing performance of tablets, it cannot pretend the tablet OS is clearly inferior to the desktop OS. Windows has a choice. Become 'free' or become history. Google can deliver the coup de grace at any time now by authorising an official multi-window shell for Android, and give it the desktop functionality of Windows. Of course, there are already any number of unofficial shells for Android that allow people to use it in desktop mode, but app developers need a standard platform to really make a difference.
The age of the x86 is over. The unavoidable Intel tax ensures this fact. The fate of Microsoft is less certain. Intel CANNOT afford to give away its only good product, its x86 CPU. Microsoft CAN afford to give away Windows (in theory) and even do the same for offline OFFICE. The move to ARM does not have to destroy MS. Microsoft just needs to employ some high level managers that have a clue and a backbone for once. Obviously this cannot happen while the useless clown Ballmer is in charge.
Windows Update or Windows Store the same ... by perpenso · 2013-05-14 06:14 · Score: 2

Windows Store? why not windows update?
It probably will be in Windows Update. However a Windows Update will probably not change your configuration settings. Whether you get the 8.0 or the 8.1 user interface will probably just be configuration. Your default configuration varying depending on what you originally installed.

Now if you go to the Windows Store and install Windows 8.1 that will probably change your configuration settings.

Going Update or Store will probably leave you with the same binaries on the hard drive.
War on Christmas by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:20 · Score: 0

Microsoft is 'very sensitive to the timing of the holidays.'
I hope the cash registers at Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-a aren't running Windows.
I thought no one used the Start button! by Trashcan+Romeo · 2013-05-14 06:22 · Score: 1

Microsoft told me so when explaining why they got rid of it! Why would they bring back something no one uses? I'm all confused now!
Windows XP forever and windows 7.5 by Joe_Dragon · 2013-05-14 06:25 · Score: 1

Windows XP forever and then windows 7.5
7.5 is windows 7 UI + all there other stuff stuff from 8 enterprise only
Needs to have updated ISO's as well by Joe_Dragon · 2013-05-14 06:28 · Score: 1

So people who are still on 7 can just do 1 install or if you are starting with a clean pc you do have to sit and download what they used to call SP's.
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by interval1066 · 2013-05-14 06:29 · Score: 1

ClassicShell:

Start button for Windows 7 and Windows 8...
What am I missing here? My windows 7 machine has a start button. Is it the wrong one?

--
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:43 · Score: 0

If you look at the screenshots there you can see that they turn Windows 7 start menu into "classic" start menu, i.e. they bring back such things as cascading menus in "All Programs".
Re:XF8ist stop.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:46 · Score: 0

they're gone Came maggot, vomit, shit Distro is done Here of OpenBSD versus minutes. If that. what they think is Cans can become Conglomerate in the aapeared...saying FrreBSD showed

Nice poetry. Are you a vogon perchance?
Free for existing users by rossdee · 2013-05-14 06:48 · Score: 1

But users who don't exist will have to pay!
Just think of all the revenue they will get from The Toothfairy, Santa Claus, Martians, Klingons, Kzinti , Elves, Unicorns, and Honest Politicians
and by nimbius · 2013-05-14 06:49 · Score: 1

down goes metropolia.fi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
1. Re:and by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 20:08 · Score: 0
  
  That was back when people read slashdot..
Really? Blue? by Taibhsear · 2013-05-14 06:50 · Score: 1

Like, as in Windows Blue Screen Of Death? Is this a not-so-inside joke?
8.11 WFW by mwvdlee · 2013-05-14 06:54 · Score: 1

I like this naming scheme, it reminds me of an old OS which only needed one more version to finally be half-decent.

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Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Free updates, kinda like linux by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 06:56 · Score: 0

Cool, that's the way all OS upgrades should be. Keep copying Ubuntu's superior ideas and you might get people to buy your next version of Windows.
1. Re:Free updates, kinda like linux by smash · 2013-05-14 17:18 · Score: 1
  
  What are these superior ideas ubuntu has? I'm running a copy of 13.04 here, and the only "new ideas" I see are the single menu bar, the dock, the app store and the control panel applet, which all look to have been rippped off from OS X.
  
  --
  I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Go back further... by neoshroom · 2013-05-14 07:09 · Score: 5, Funny

I seriously can't know how people can be comfortable with the Win7 Start screen. Here's a picture of my Program Manager in Win3.11. Everything is nicely pinned right there (no moving mouse around the screen), the search functionality works the same and there is direct access to things like Control Panel. It does not steal the attention with a full screen jumbled mess of harshly colored squares with uncolored icons.

--
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
1. Re:Go back further... by MatthiasF · 2013-05-14 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  Wish I could mod you funny. Damn this random, one-time-five-points-every-two-years, mod system.
2. Re:Go back further... by Darinbob · 2013-05-14 10:02 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Windows 7 start menu is essentially the optimized version of the windows 3 program manager, with easier means to open and access along with ability to use files and programs not contained within program manager. Whereas Windows 8 start screen is optimized for the use of pounding your forehead against a touch screen .
Really, another 4-6 months until official release? by erac3rx · 2013-05-14 07:17 · Score: 1

Good on Microsoft for doing this. I essentially hated my i7 laptop after upgrading it to Win8, until I paid $4.99 for Start8. Glad they've come to their senses. But it begs the question... why does it take them 6 months to realize the mistake, then another 6 months to release an update that is essentially a minor patch? It annoyed me paying for Start8, but seriously... almost a year to get an option to boot to desktop and the start menu back, when I could pay $5 to get it from a 3rd party basically on release day. No one gives a crap about having more Metro tiles... These options should have been added in via a Windows Update patch months ago, and instead we get a preview in June with release in time for the holidays...
Free Updates? by WillgasM · 2013-05-14 07:23 · Score: 1

So are they abandoning the paid, regular updates idea? I thought the point of "Blue" was that they would essentially do away with major releases and just start pushing updates more regularly for a nominal fee. Is 8.1 being offered free in order to lock us into some strange update cycle or is this all just an attempt to save face?
1. Re:Free Updates? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:10 · Score: 0
  
  I would speculate this will be similar to the Mac OS X launch. OS X came out. OS X 10.1 was a free upgrade, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 were all paid, 'major' upgrades. If 8.1 is enough to fix major qualms, especially the qualms of the /. crowd, this model may possibly work for Microsoft. The Microsoft can start charging for 8.2 and up.
trivia - who cares? what is IN THE RELEASE? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:24 · Score: 0

So what is IN THE RELEASE?! I don't care if they call it using hieroglyphics or the symbol Prince used instead of a name.
Two options:
(1) No start menu = total fail, Windows 8 is dead
(2) Start menu returns = the world is happy because Win8 is good under the hood.
Which option do we get?
1. Re:trivia - who cares? what is IN THE RELEASE? by smash · 2013-05-14 17:14 · Score: 1
  
  Having attempted to tolerate/like Windows 8 since the beta...
  The lack of start menu in Windows 8 is the least of the problems. The major issue is regressions in functionality (search being a major example, the joke tht is multiple metro apps on screen being another), sandboxing between apps that really should be able to talk to each other in Metro, and the clusterfuck of having 2 different UIs and configuration settings, applications, etc. scattered between them.
  If 8.1 can fix those issues, maybe it will get a second chance. I'm not holding my breath.
  
  --
  I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I Want to Design the Microsoft Car by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:26 · Score: 0

I really want to design an automobile and make everyone who works at Microsoft drive it. I'll tell them it's super fast with a superb sound system.
I won't tell them that I moved the steering wheel to the wrong side of the car and reversed the gas/break pedals. I was tired of back seat drivers, so I came up with a revolutionary design that puts the driver in the back seat and passengers up front. Just don't drive passengers with big hair, they'll obstruct your view. For convenience, I also installed a built in toll card so the car knows who you are and automatically pays all your tolls. You can't disable it, even if you don't use toll roads and bridges.
And, the coolest feature is that you have to crawl through the trunk to get into the engine compartment! I didn't want people to know how to get into the engine, so I hid it! How awesome is that?!?! If users can't get to the engine, they can't break anything. My philosophy, anyway.
Re:AMD is still hear and they are better then inte by Hadlock · 2013-05-14 07:32 · Score: 2

AMD is still hear and
Not for long, if you're representative of the quality astroturfer that they can afford these days...

--
moox. for a new generation.
And they should test it why? by SmallFurryCreature · 2013-05-14 07:34 · Score: 0

If I make crap out a thoroughly horrid turt and you then buy it and goble it up... what exactly should be my motivation in creating a better turd?
You bought Windows8. You like turds, you are not a focus for further development because they already got your money.
8.1 is aimed at the people who haven't been eating shit for months on end. To try and get their money too by polishing the turd.
What do I use? Linux... yeah... gnome 3. But at least MY turd is FREE!
I OS makers made cars, we would all be riding bicycles.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
1. Re:And they should test it why? by bobbied · 2013-05-15 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  You bought Windows8. You like turds,.
  Not exactly fair in this case. Yea, I purchased a Windows 8 Professional upgrade, but I had a good reason and got a great price on the upgrade.
  First, I was upgrading a XP Home license that I had just moved to a new (and vastly improved) system for the family to use for their Windows's activities. Simply didn't want to try and force the Linux solution in this situation. They had software that was "windows only" and I didn't have the time to try and port all of it to Wine or something. So I really had no choice but to run Windows.
  Second, the upgrade was CHEAP! I got this upgrade to Windows 8 Professional for much less than an upgrade to *ANYTHING* else "Windows" was available for. During the initial launch of Window 8, a local retailer was selling the upgrade for $35 so I snatched up a copy.
  So I purchased this because it was CHEAP and I simply had to run Windows, Not because I have a taste for bad things...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Also Chuck UEFI by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:36 · Score: 0

While you're at it, Microsoft, ditch UEFI if you want me to purchase any computer with Windows.
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 07:37 · Score: 0

That W7 menu crap is why my VM of Windows is still XP.
unhappiest developers in the world by officialkirill · 2013-05-14 07:40 · Score: 1

Microsoft really hates its developers. Windows XP internal version number was 5, Vista was 6 and Windows 7 was 6.1. Now Windows 8 is 6.2 and 8.1 will probably be 6.3. Crazy. That's marketing for you folks
The start menu is STILL not back by fluor2 · 2013-05-14 07:50 · Score: 1

If you thought that something is new:
The Start button will just launch the Win8-start screen, a screen full of annoyance.
So how much dead code will there be in Win 8.1? by pkinetics · 2013-05-14 07:55 · Score: 1

I assume it is just a shell on top of their existing code base, and not a "strip the crap of dead code out".
My point being its a patch, or worse a kludge.
How many security holes and bugs will this create, and how many will it leave behind for Win 9 development team to fix later?
1. Re:So how much dead code will there be in Win 8.1? by DougOtto · 2013-05-14 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  All of it.
  
  --
  Solving Unix problems since 1989...
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by petermgreen · 2013-05-14 07:58 · Score: 1

MS had already started the process of gimping the start menu in win7, they just went full retard in win8.
The initial start menu isn't too bad in win7 but when you go to the full list of programs it's held within a little box rather than using the screen height it opens in a small box. This is bad enough on a secondary machine with relatively few programs installed, I dread to think what it would be like on my primary office machine.

--
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Immerman · 2013-05-14 08:11 · Score: 1

Ugh, yeah, that was horrible - one of the first things I did was increase the number of entries on the "recently used" list to force the menu to use the full screen height. A couple months later I said to heck with it and went back to just using Linux for all my day-to-day stuff. I just wish Ubuntu weren't focussing all their energy into their own anemic Unity interface, I've yet to find another distro with the level of polish and "just works" ease of use. I'm a geek from way back, and I want to be able to set things up "just so" to optimize my workflow, but frankly these days I'm just not interested in getting my hands dirty under the hood on a regular basis, I've got my own projects that energy could be better spent on.

--
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Upgrade from Slackware64-14.0 by turgid · 2013-05-14 08:30 · Score: 1

Just what I've been waiting for! Oh, maybe not...

--
Stick Men
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Cinder6 · 2013-05-14 08:33 · Score: 1

Actually, they started that in Vista, I believe. I don't have anything against it, though; I always just use the search feature, as it's faster.

--
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Every new release by geekoid · 2013-05-14 08:42 · Score: 1

same other thing.
Bunch if ignorant posts based on second hand experience, whining about change, and no actual technical arguments about why one is bad or good.
You people are no different the fashioniestas talking about the next spring fashions, or sports fanatics talking about why someone else screwed their team and that's why they didn't win.
Pathetic.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
1. Re:Every new release by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-14 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  I don't use Win 8 by choice. I've used it; I don't like it. My roommate didn't have a choice; it came with her computer. She doesn't know if she has downgrade rights but she's seriously thinking about it. And we are not the only ones. Pro-Microsoft writers like Adrian Knightly-Hughes thought that Win 8 was a design disaster. His gripes echo most of what everyone has said here on slashdot. Metron is fine for a touch tablet; it's horrible for desktops.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
2. Re:Every new release by smash · 2013-05-14 17:09 · Score: 1
  
  Win2k was liked. Win7 was liked. Win3.11 was liked. The people with your opinion are those who haven't had a very long history in the microsoft world or a shit memory.
  
  --
  I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
3. Re:Every new release by Nefarious+Wheel · 2013-05-14 19:26 · Score: 1
  
  Well, we had to have a look at W8 because we have a few thousand users who buy their own PC's. We have a say in what we can support, though, and that carries a lot of weight.
  After our ISD team had a look at it, and after we stopped laughing, our chief decision-maker said: "Well, we skipped Vista..."
  Major change fear isn't just a Luddite thing, it's a major cost for us. We're talking $millions if we were to move to W8 in training cost, and that doesn't include the rather expensive productivity dip as we cycle customers through a training program, for which we would have to bear the cost. There is no way we could avoid substantial training, as our users just simply aren't that adept and would completely freeze at a new interface.
  You can take that back to your boss at Microsoft, Geekoid, and tell them that W8 sucks because it would cost us too goddamn much money to implement.
  
  --
  Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Holidays, huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 08:44 · Score: 0

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Microsoft is coming to town
He's making a list
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice
Microsoft is coming to town
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
O! You better watch out!
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Microsoft is coming to town
Microsoft is coming to town
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Entropius · 2013-05-14 08:59 · Score: 1

I have the same dilemma, and run Kubuntu now, which "just works" pretty well, but is still very customizable.
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Immerman · 2013-05-14 09:13 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'm actually using it now - loving the new multi-monitor support, and seems like the Plasma Desktop is finally living up to it's potential, but there's still some decidedly rough edges to it. I've decided to try it for a few months and see how much of that is just the fact that my old Gnome setup was benefiting from a few years of acclimation and fine-tuning. It still keeps pissing me off in minor ways though.

--
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
IMNAAHO by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:25 · Score: 0

Win+I and enter gives direct access to control panel.
How intuitive. /sarcasm Seriously, I suspect this key combination has been valid for the past several generations of Windows, but despite using Windows professionally since Windows 3.1, I never heard of it. Control panel was always accessed by clicking Start -> Control Panel (Settings in older versions), or typing CONTROL at a command prompt. That I now have to swipe the side of the screen repeatedly, because it fails more than it succeeds, or remember a new three key combination due to an interface change for no legitimate reason besides stupidity and pig-headedness is absurd.

Harshly coloured jumbled mess is a bit of an exaggeration IMHO, all the icons on my start screen have a calm blue background.
In my not at all humble opinion, the default "start screen" is a garish assault on my eyes harkening back to the days of users keeping every file and icon on their main desktop, but much worse because the default screen has varying sizes and numerous garish colors. Finding an application that you have not moved to prominence is a downright painful experience.
What GUI would ever be regarded as good or intuitive, the primary purpose of a GUI, when looking for an application icon is described a positively painful experience? That is an epic design failure. EPIC! That you relearned or came to accept it as the new normal does not mean that I will be willing to accept it or waste the mental cycles relearning this mess for precisely ZERO BENEFIT to me or my work flow. For me, and apparently most people, Microsoft has (again) with Windows 8 thrown hurdles in front of the user without providing the user with any real benefit to justify the impediment.
Window 8 may or may not be a decent interface for a tablet or touch screen PC(my opinion is that it fails there too), but for those of us "relics" that use desktop PCs and high performance workstations to get real work done, the Windows 8 start screen sucks balls and ass at the same time.
1. Re:IMNAAHO by MachDelta · 2013-05-14 10:29 · Score: 2
  
  In Win8, right click the corner where the start menu should be. It brings up a short list of really useful settings and admin type stuff, including the control panel.
Windows Blew by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 09:32 · Score: 1

Oh there is an arcane way to get to the desktop without first entering metro but you will still have to deal with it alot
TFS itself says it's free. Oh, and there are two Ls in "allot". As to the start menu:
I'll have a blue Windows without you.
I'll be so blue just thinking about you.
tiles of pastel on a blue MS screen
Won't be the same dear, boy Ballmer is mean!
And when those blue widgets start falling
That's when those blue memories start calling
You'll be doin' all right, with your riches and might
But I'll have a blue, blue blue blue Windows
(Apologies to Billy Hayes and Jay Johnson, whose lyrics I just mangled)

--
Free Martian Whores!
1. Re:Windows Blew by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 09:49 · Score: 0
  
  "allot" is not the word to be used here. "a lot" should be used.
  "allot" is a verb, while (in this context) "a lot" is an adverb.
2. Re:Windows Blew by Skrapion · 2013-05-14 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure the GP was talking about Alot, the town in India. It should have read:
  
  you will still have to deal with it, Alot.
  Yeah. Deal with it.
  
  --
  The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 09:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

If all you want is a start menu just install kubuntu or Mandriva and you'll have all the functionality of all the versions of Windows, with no lacking features whatever, plus features Windows never had. And your system will be faster and more responsive.
Windows? Ballmer blue it!

--
Free Martian Whores!
Free? by danbob999 · 2013-05-14 09:39 · Score: 1

I paid $15 for Windows 8 and it was total crap. And now they are telling me that 8.1 is going to be better for free?
You get what you pay for. I don't get that nonsense. Farewell Windows 8. I am switching to Debian 7!
windows blue is service pack add fixes and feature by Vince6791 · 2013-05-14 09:43 · Score: 1

I don't think there will be a windows 9 Per Se, for now on it's nothing but updates(fixes and extra functionality added) every year, although the first update coming this fall or winter will be free, but the next update next year will probably not be free.
I installed and ran classic shell which is free and it's superb if you dig the old 95/xp/7 menu's. I removed it since I'm used to metro.
The new user indoctrinat^W introduction video by tepples · 2013-05-14 09:54 · Score: 1

You have to click on one of the corners to get "Settings". How in the world is anyone supposed to know that?
By watching the video that pops up when you create a new user account, I guess.
1. Re:The new user indoctrinat^W introduction video by UnknowingFool · 2013-05-15 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  I don't feel the need to create a Windows Store account just to learn how to use a UI. Why don't they have the video as part of the OS? Second, why is the UI so unintuitive that you need to watch a video?
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
2. Re:The new user indoctrinat^W introduction video by tepples · 2013-05-15 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  I don't feel the need to create a Windows Store account just to learn how to use a UI.
  By "user account", I meant a user account on the local computer. Not owning a Windows 8 PC myself, I don't know whether one can create a user account on the local computer without tying it to a Microsoft account. Is there an online manual stating one way or the other?
Apple killed Newton by tepples · 2013-05-14 09:58 · Score: 1

That would be like Apple just discontinuing the entire iOS line and saying "Sorry, your iDevices are useless."
That's exactly what Apple did to Newton, the predecessor to iDevices, when Steve Jobs returned to the company.
Android vs. Chrome OS by tepples · 2013-05-14 10:04 · Score: 1

Google can deliver the coup de grace at any time now by authorising an official multi-window shell for Android, and give it the desktop functionality of Windows.
True, Google can add a tag to the Android manifest to let developers declare an application resizable, which would allow for a standardized version of Samsung's multi-window functionality. But there's also a good reason for Google not to do so, as multi-window Android would hurt its strategy to segment the market between Chrome OS for laptops and Android for phones and tablets.
1. Re:Android vs. Chrome OS by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-05-14 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  But there's also a good reason for Google not to do so, as multi-window Android would hurt its strategy to segment the market between Chrome OS for laptops and Android for phones and tablets.
  And what is the point of that market segmentation? As it is, Chromebooks are failing hard, and the lack of apps is one of the major reasons for that. Why they don't just take Android and extend it to handle desktop scenarios better (and floating windows is practically all it takes!) is beyond me.
If only it would install... by GumphMaster · 2013-05-14 10:07 · Score: 1

Now if only Windows 8 would install on my hardware rather than the mid-install reboot leaving me with a black screen and no control... then I might be able to access this no-cost update.

--
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by hoboroadie · 2013-05-14 10:11 · Score: 1

I had to switch from Radeon to Invidia cards so that I could get a working, modern driver for the kid to game with,
but, yeah.

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
wait wait wait by roc97007 · 2013-05-14 10:13 · Score: 1

Hang on. It looks like everyone thinks that 8.1 will give them the old start menu back. What makes you think that? It would be tantamount to admitting that they blew the paradigm, that they Made a Mistake, and I just don't see Ballmer doing that. He'd rather lose market share than admit to this bad of a decision.
Having upgraded a little used touch screen laptop to Win8, (because Win7 sucks on a touch screen) we've found a bunch of things that need to be done to make it useful. But two things are absolutely imperative:
(a) Boot directly to desktop
(b) Bring back the start button and menus.
(c) No fullscreen apps on non-phone devices. Or at least, a regular Windows version or mode on every app that runs fullscreen on Windows Phone. I didn't buy a big, dense monitor and a quad core system to run one damned app at a time.
Any other fixes are cake. Those are not negotiable. (I know, I know, Classic Shell fixes part of this. But we're talking here about what Microsoft needs to do to fix their mistakes.)
In 8.1, I need the ability to set the OS so that I never ever see Metro again. Never. Not ever. Not even a little bit. Yes, I know the laptop has a touch screen. I'd rather abandon that functionality than deal with the frustration that is Metro. Moreover, the other non-touchscreen PCs on which I work will stay firmly put on the Windows version they currently run until (a) and (b) and (c) happen. That is not negotiable.
If instead Microsoft has put the Start button back but it only takes you to the Metro screen, that's an even bigger fail than before, because it shows a mindset that we're just too stupid to like Metro off the bat and need to be forced to use it until we like it. Moreover, I'd fully expect that a way could be found to disable the various third-party start screens. If I wanted to force all my customers to like it or lump it, 's what I'd do.
So, no cheering in Mudville just yet. I wanna see what 8.1 actually does, not what we speculate it might do.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
1. Re:wait wait wait by roc97007 · 2013-05-14 10:19 · Score: 2
  
  Before you say it, being able to split my screen and run two apps at a time is sooooo 1992. I currently have six windows open on this screen and eleven open on my second screen. We outgrew "two apps at once", like, 20 years ago. How did they think this would be acceptable? Did Ballmer have a stroke or something?
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
2. Re:wait wait wait by Osgeld · 2013-05-14 17:14 · Score: 2
  
  hell I stopped by my dad's house the other day and he had a 4 separate programs running at once, my freaking dad, who gets boggled by power cycling his router had a browser going with google maps, his GPS software, excel for calcing time and mileage, and skype talking to his brother
3. Re:wait wait wait by roc97007 · 2013-05-14 17:46 · Score: 1
  
  This.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
4. Re:wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 18:07 · Score: 0
  
  Almost all apps need half a screen to be functional, especially if it's just a regular sized screen. You get a bit more leeway with 30" screens, but the typically 22-25" screens only go up to 1920x1080 or 1920x1200. You can get work done in 1/11 of the screen? Just making a website really requires 3 full screens. I am designing a widescreen optimized web app. It needs the whole screen, or it will be too small to comfortably work in. I would also like another screen to run the debug tools in, and another screen for my code. I only have two screens, so I have to switch between these windows all the time. If I have to code on just half a screen, I can't even see a whole line of code, nevermind my NotePad++ plugins. I have to use several programs at once to get my work done. But if I tried to put more than two on the same screen at once, they would be too small to actually get any work done. PowerPoint, Excel, MATLAB, Illustrator, PyMOL, etc, need the whole screen to see what you are doing. Word, Firefox, Windows Explorer, might work OK on half a screen but not any smaller, and they are still better used full screen. MATLAB even really works better with two screens. So what kind of apps do you use where you can work efficiently in them when they are that small?
5. Re:wait wait wait by roc97007 · 2013-05-15 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  Look, if you've spent any time on a PC at all, you know that's not true. Not every window needs that much real estate, and windows overlap. Or at least, they used to, before Windows 8. What a step backwards.
  I have an app up in my right top corner that's an inch and a half wide by three inches long. Below that is another app that's an inch tall by two inches wide. On a 1920X1200 screen. Those stay up all the time. In the new paradigm, those would be the only two apps that I could display. It's insane.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You miss the Handcuffs? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:36 · Score: 0

I guess you must be kinky that way... ;)
Re: Bogus UI by hoboroadie · 2013-05-14 10:44 · Score: 1

I have been suggesting a switch to Linux for about a decade, but all it took was the new interface to make the sale.
There was a bit of gratuitous vituperation, but worth it.
Thank you, Microsoft.

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Re: Wohoo! Windows blew by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 10:51 · Score: 0

Meanwhile, in the real world, grownups with work to get done have better things to do than to fuck around with /etc/somefuck.conf file just to get dual monitor support working properly.
blue... by s0lar · 2013-05-14 10:56 · Score: 1

So, should I stop feeling blue?..
Re:Aches and panes by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 11:23 · Score: 0

Windows 8 use is a valid indication for medical marijuana.
Re:AMD is still hear and they are better then inte by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 11:49 · Score: 0

AMD and good board options. Does not compute. In fact that is exactly what screwed them over when they did have superior CPUs. (i.e. the garbage Intel P4/core solo days)
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by Skrapion · 2013-05-14 13:19 · Score: 1
all the functionality of all the versions of Windows, with no lacking features whatever
Look, I like Linux, and it has a lot of benefits that Windows doesn't have, but when you say that Linux has everything that Windows has, you make it clear that you're either:
- * Lying to us,
- * Lying to yourself, or
- * Gravely short sighted
Do you really want people to think those things about you? And do you think you're helping the Linux with an image like that?
--
The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
Windows Store = Microsoft Account required by javajeff · 2013-05-14 13:46 · Score: 1

It will be available through the Windows Store which means that a Microsoft account is required.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by hoboroadie · 2013-05-14 14:23 · Score: 1

We had a Radeon HD 7850 but couldn't get drivers, so we had to run Windows. I got a gtx 660 card that someone has deigned to write a driver for, and its running on Ubuntu now but I'm gonna try it on Slackware next time I get to California.
If anyone knows about a working Linux driver for the HD 7850 I would like to be hepped to it.

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Re: Wohoo! Windows blew by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 15:07 · Score: 0

Great, another Linux "Works For Me" post
Dupe by hoboroadie · 2013-05-14 15:49 · Score: 1

That comment is made for every Microsoft release.

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Re: Wohoo! Windows blew by ozmanjusri · 2013-05-14 15:53 · Score: 1

FWIW, I have an Asus HD 7850 working fine.
Sometimes it's helpful to know that others are successfully using the same hardware. That way you know it's only your particular machine/config to investigate, not that you just have an unusable incompatible component.

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"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Sig Sic by justthinkit · 2013-05-14 16:34 · Score: 1

What the first four words of your .sig should be.

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I come here for the love
1. Re:Sig Sic by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  Whoosh. Seriously, how can you be so stupid and still be alive?
Re:Really, another 4-6 months until official relea by shutdown+-p+now · 2013-05-14 17:03 · Score: 1

What makes you believe that 8.1 will be "just a minor patch"? People are harping about it having boot to desktop & Start button because that's what everyone hated about Win8, but it doesn't mean that those are the only two new features, you know.
meh by smash · 2013-05-14 17:07 · Score: 1

I'm still going to wait for SP1 ;-)

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Really, another 4-6 months until official relea by smash · 2013-05-14 17:20 · Score: 1

There's no confirmation you will actually get those two features, either.

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by smash · 2013-05-14 17:34 · Score: 1

I need to run the Windows RSAT

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by smash · 2013-05-14 17:42 · Score: 1

Just looking at my laptop here, the following apps are unavailable for Linux: vSphere client, iTunes, Cisco Netowork Assistant, Netapp OnCommand System Manager, Netapp Management Console, Solarwinds Orion NPM, the Windows RSAT, Exchange admin tools, SQL admin tools, vSphere PowerCLI, Pronto XI, Commvault Simpana Console, Cisco UCS management, etc.
Before we even start with user-facing applications like Powerpoint, Onenote, Outlook, etc.
"Linux" isn't the hard bit. Yes, for a lot of stuff there are replacement apps available. However, some are not available.
It is re-learning/re-training all the staff in your environment to learn replacements for all the applications you run. The licensing costs pale into insignificance when stacked against the retraining cost and the associated downtime/risk during transition.

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by smash · 2013-05-14 17:53 · Score: 1

And to elaborate: if i need to manage a Linux server from Windows, I can install putty and use SSH (as I do). If i need to administer any of the above services/devices from within Linux, I'm mostly shit out of luck unless I RDP to a Windows box.

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Free for existing users? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 19:22 · Score: 0

All three of them?
Completely Untrue.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 20:32 · Score: 0

When I had to upgrade OSX, I had to use the Mac App Store to buy Mountain lion. And now all updates are though the Mac App Store. Its definitely not "optional".
Also the walled garden is the _default_ on OSX. Which means you have to specifically _KNOW_ that you aren't allowed by default to install apps outside of the app store and _KNOW_ that you have go into some weird settings dialog to turn it off.
This is not the case on Windows. Infact I haven't touched the App Store in W8 and I've installed dozens of apps without needing to change any settings.
But hey... anti-ms trolls are known to lie about things to push their agenda... nothing new here.
1. Re:Completely Untrue.. by MachineShedFred · 2013-05-15 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  I have to specifically _KNOW_ that I'm not allowed to click any link on any website and download a disk image that works with an annoying warning box that tells you exactly how to disable it?
  I have to specifically _KNOW_ that I'm not allowed to go buy any software at a retail store, and it installs without any problems whatsoever?
  I have to specifically _KNOW_ that if the developer used a code signing certificate when they packaged the app, that I'll still not have any problems whatsoever?
  But hey... anti-ms trolls are known to lie about things to push their agenda... nothing new here.
  Pot, meet kettle.
  
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  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by mcgrew · 2013-05-14 23:30 · Score: 1

So educate me, what functionality and features does Windows have that Linux lacks?

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Free Martian Whores!
W2K was the bomb. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-14 23:56 · Score: 0

Windows 2000 self-identified as NT5.0
Windows 2000 remains the most beautiful computing interface I've ever seen.
And W2K Advanced Server was the best desktop operating system I've ever used.
If I could have the look and feel of W2K for the rest of my life - with just a few tweeks, like the increase on the total number of windows which can be open at any time [W2K maxed out around 32 or 64 total windows], and the ability to rotate JPGs by 90 degrees within Explorer, then I'd be a happy camper.
PS: Outlook Express remains, hands down, the greatest email client interface I've ever used [especially with that "View Source" tool, which allowed you to edit the source code of an HTML email], and nothing else is even remotely close to it.
"Outlook" itself is an abomination by comparison.
CRAB IS CRAB... GET YOU MONEY BACK by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 00:02 · Score: 0

CRABS, CRAB IS CRAB-GIT YER MONEY BACK...
HOW MANY TIMES have YOU heard these songs these very heyTUNES the Te NEW is BETTWER and MORE BETTWER than the old ????
WELL guestt what happens, YOU CAN WOW NOT GETT AN UFFICIAL WINDOWSZ UPP DATE FOR THE FREE PIECE OF ONE !!!!
RUN to you local farm, church, masonry building or swimming pool to GET INSEMINATED by the HOLY WISDOM OF BALLMER....
OR GIT YER MONEY BACK !!!!
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by chrish · 2013-05-15 02:10 · Score: 1

Games. All the games.
Yes, yes, I know Linux has some games, and I know Steam is there now, but take a good look at gaming on Mac. Steam's there, and some Cider-based ports of things, but it's still pretty bad, despite the optimism we all had five years ago. The games in the App Store are mostly ports of mobile things, not 'AAA' games. If Mac can't do it, I don't think Linux can.
I think the only other thing I use regularly that doesn't exist on Linux is Unity (the game development platform, not the awful UI).
Pretty much everything else I use is portable and/or has a decent equivalent.

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- chrish
quick question by slashmydots · 2013-05-15 02:33 · Score: 1

I thought I had heard, and I'm not old enough to remember, didn't they do a free upgrade for Windows Millenium Edition to XP?
Can't Deal by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 02:46 · Score: 0

With every new product Microsoft becomes more and more restricted. My boss decided to return my win8 computer because the installed printer doesn't show up, in fact every single device I've hooked up has been incredibly difficult. Quickbooks has no compatibility for windows 8, they told me "we don't have any support uh, we only have one windows 8 computer for reference in the office". Windows 8 is terrible in a work environment. I am so happy to get rid of it! Need a drink after this bullshit.
let me translate that headline for you by slashmydots · 2013-05-15 03:19 · Score: 1

Actual headline: "Microsoft decides not to attempt to sell Windows 8 SP1"
Rip off the Band-Aid... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 04:39 · Score: 0

There is a good technical reason for numbering the versions that way. A lot of badly written software was checking the major version number. Installers were especially prone to this. As such Microsoft only increments the major number when they deliberately want to break compatibility with such software and force sysadmins who really need to get it running to turn on compatibility mode.
2000 had some new UI stuff and various APIs ported over from Windows 98/ME. Vista had the biggest changes in Window's entire history. On the other hand any OS with the same major version number tends to be fairly similar from an API point of view.
Windows would be worlds better if Microsoft would treat developers the way they treat users. Instead, they bend over backwards to retain backwards compatibility with all sorts of poorly-written software, while simultaneously ramming UI changes down the users' throats.
Start Menu structure still exists by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 10:31 · Score: 0

Any "tech" that needs everything to be exactly where he expects it to be in order to do his job is incompetent. Users move and customize things all the time so if you cant deal with that you have no business being a "tech".
You can still see the start menu structure in the start menu folder on Windows8 machines if you *really* cant manage without it when assisting a user and it is likely to be more consistent than on Windows7 machines because users are not going to have faffed around with it after installation like they do with the start menu. Assuming you rely on this structure to do your job you should find working with Windows8 ever *easier* than Windows7 in this regard.
How about tech talk? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 10:34 · Score: 0

You know what would be nice? To actually get some tech talk from a tech site. Maybe a few comments about what's new / improved in 8.1, whether it improves usability / compatibility. Am I asking too much for it to be an objective discussion?
Try imagining for a moment that this is an announcement of the worlds largest Linux distro upgrade. What would you like to know about it?
I've found that using two eyes nearly always improves my ability to see clearly.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by ulzeraj · 2013-05-16 02:14 · Score: 1

Yeah but putty is not a replacement for a unix shell. At least for those like me who work only with Linux and sometimes other comercial Unix operating systems. Besides being a real PITA to setup tunnels and other features you can't pipe things through Putty.
While its possible to implement those on Windows through MSSFU/SUA (afaik not available for Windows 8 uh?) or Cygwin, its just too weird and alien to the underlying operating system.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by mcgrew · 2013-05-16 05:17 · Score: 1

Well, yes, I'm not saying Windows is completely useless; if you're a professional image designer you're going to need a $700 copy of photoshop and an OS that will run it. Hardcore gamers will need Windows. But nobody but a professional needs (and few can easily afford) photoshop.
If I was still into gaming I'd have a dual-boot setup that defaulted to Linux, but the game companies lost my business years ago; I think the last game I bought was Quake III. DRM killed gaming for me.

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by smash · 2013-05-16 13:27 · Score: 1

Never said putty was a replacement. Merely that to maintain a business environment I can't do it without a Windows license.

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by smash · 2013-05-16 13:28 · Score: 1

Oh, and you can tunnel through putty...

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I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Free? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-18 00:51 · Score: 0

Is there going to be a way to get it free without windows 8 but legally
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by interval1066 · 2013-05-18 02:18 · Score: 1

"Mint"

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Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:OK, Win8.1 it is... by Immerman · 2013-05-18 04:27 · Score: 1

Really? I heven't tried it, but my impression was that it's a wonderfully streamlined distro to hand to someone that wants "Windows without the issues" for basic use, but isn't really power-user friendly. Whereas I'm someone that feels the need to do a *lot* of customization to my interface to get it to the point that it becomes "invisible" in my workflow.

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--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by KingBenny · 2013-05-19 13:37 · Score: 1

windows runs directx11 games whereas most of those dont really work as well under wine ... it also for some reason gives me between 10-20Mhps more on my bitcoin miner. Other than that ... an update you don't even have to pay for? who could refuse ? As for productivity, ease of use and desktop flipping linux mint gets my vote

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Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Re:Wohoo! Windows blew by mcgrew · 2013-05-20 13:47 · Score: 1

I'm going to have to give Linux Mint a try, everyone who mentions it mentions it positively. I need to get Linux on this laptop, anyway.

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Free Martian Whores!