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Xbox One: No Always-Online Requirement, But Needs To Phone Home
An anonymous reader writes "The Xbox One was revealed earlier, and Kotaku was able to get some answers about the always-online rumors that plagued the console before its announcement. Microsoft VP Phil Harrison said Xbox One doesn't need a constant connection in order to play games, and you won't be dropped from single-player games if your connection cuts out. However, it does require check-ins with Microsoft servers. This echoes the Xbox One FAQ, which cryptically says, "No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet." The number Harrison gave was once every 24 hours, but Microsoft's PR department was quick to say that was just one potential scenario, not a certainty. Microsoft also provided half-answers about how used games and game sharing would work. Players will be able to take a game to a friend's house and play it (using their profile, at least). Players will also have some mechanism to trade and sell used games, but it's not yet clear exactly how it would work. If one player uses a disc to install a game on their Xbox One, then gives the disc to a friend, the friend will be able to install it, but needs to pay full price to play it. That scenario, however, assumes both players want to own the game — the second one would essentially be a unique copy. Microsoft said they have a plan for trading used games, which would involve deactivating the game on the original owner's console, but they aren't willing to elaborate yet."
Several publications have hands-on reports with the new hardware: Engadget, Ars Technica, Gizmodo.
More restrictions on the used game market, unknown "online requirements", what more would one want?
Xbox One includes and requires Kinect. This means that each Xbox One has an internet connected camera. In every living room, dorm room and bed room where someone places an Xbox One http://windowsitpro.com/blog/csi-effect-not-everyone-wants-kinect-camera-their-living-room
This will not END WELL.
Regards,
Yaboi
The games do not require an always-on internet connection, provided that the user first supplies a blood sample and a retinal scan and wears a special microchip implanted in his/her skin. The special microchip must always be within contact of a wifi connection, and not doing so voids the warranty on your XBox. You are free to sell used games to your friends, but after doing so, you are required to provide their name and address to Microsoft so that they can hunt them down and kill them and destroy the existing copy of the game.
How about making a straight forward good old console. Why do we need to have all consoles internet active and DRM locked, what ever happened to the rocking systems like the NES ans SNSES?
http://i.imgur.com/inXnRfO.png
Sony's stock jumps 9% during Xbox One announcement.
Unicode in Slashdot
Steam has been reported to work offline for weeks at a time. If the Xbox One really can't stay in offline mode for more than 24 hours, it just makes the Steam Box that much more likely to succeed.
So if you have to install games to your Xbox ZERO or "deactivate" them to sell them, why bother with a console at all, just get a PC...
If Microsoft want to make a home media device for use in people's main living rooms, that's fine. It's actually quite a good idea. But such a device cannot be principally viewed as a games console.
I don't know about the rest of you, but aside from the occasional multiplayer split screen session, I play console games on a dedicated screen, either in a bedroom or computer room. I cannot play a game in a main living room, on a screen which in in demand by others for watching TV, films, or even browsing the internet. It's nice that this device can do so much, but flipping "channels" to whatever everyone else wants to watch is not conducive to the 4-6 hour gaming sessions I would like to have.
Maybe they're going for the complete casual gaming market here, people who will flick over to Angry Birds or whatever. But even the most passé of run-of-the-mill gamers is going to spend an hour or so playing shooters online, and are not going to be inclined to flip over to daytime TV, or browse the web in the middle of their frag session. I just cannot see this working en masse.
Some may call it anti-social, but to me playing video games is closer to reading a book than watching TV; it's principally an individual experience, and the living room is not the place to have it unless you are specifically playing co-op. I don't think Microsoft are serious about the Xbox One as a gaming console. It appears to be principally oriented around completely orthogonal capabilities.
May the Maths Be with you!
What's the real price going to be? You know, the one after you factor in whatever they're charging for Xbox Live this time around, in order to do what every other system on the planet lets you do for free. If they expect me to pay them for multiplayer gaming this time around, they're living in a fantasy land.
This unveiling was so vague and missing information that it's truly impressive. It's like Microsoft knows their answers are going to piss people off, so they're just avoiding giving details at all.
TBH the entire presentation was highly unimpressive. The people listening were core gamers, and Microsoft totally ignored them in favor of "hey look at Kinect moving the TV window around and bringing up a browser!"
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
There was news that the new console will be able to sell your used games on the Xbox One.
I think the reason is Microsoft just wants to kill the secondhand market and gamestop and take money for themselves. I bet it's gonna be revealed and clarified that you can sell your license to the game on their marketplace and you earn a certain percentage (if they were nice it would be high like at least 70% but who knows) and you can only put that money back into the Xbox marketplace for a new game or whatever.
To stay on topic, I bet this is why it requires always online, license checking. If you sell your game but never go back online then you can have your cake and eat it too.
How long before HTC starts the trademark infringement action?
Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
Maybe before we rush to adopt a camera in every living room we should stop to consider the consequences of blithely giving this technology such a central position in our lives.
It's no good saying "It doesn't have to be always connected to the internet", but why the hell does it *need* to phone home AT ALL?
It's like saying for the OEM mass market Windows9 OS that it has to log in to a Windows AD controller on another machine. If they've made it that it must get its configuration on boot-up for a user to log in from an AD controller, then the fact is that it DOES need to connect to one.
What's missing is WHY they made it have to do that and could not make it so that the OS *could* join an AD domain, but didn't *have* to.
I can see from their point why: they sell another OS license and an AD license (in this fictitious case). And they can make up what benefit you get (you can have a roaming account that is the same for your laptop, MS Phone, Desktop, tablet and XBox), but that doesn't explain why these "features" are *must have*.
Anyone remember that EA bullshit about SimCity needed to "offload" some of it's processing (which was proven false by a hacker later)? Well, one of the things they mentioned specifically at the announcement yesterday was that the Xbox One would feature this capability (they bragged as if it was a good thing). And with them highlighting EA as a partner, you can bet you'll see plenty of One games that require always-online connections, to connect to EA servers for "processing."
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Well, looks like developers finally found a way to drive GameStop and its ilk out of business. First they made it impossible to sell used PC games, now they've finally come for the used console games too.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Why can't you just buy it, and own it, and use it how you like? Or... not buy the damn thing. It's supposed to be entertainment, not work, not some sort of interactive customer experience with Microsoft.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Sony's stock jumps 9% during Xbox One announcement.
From
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-21/sony-jumps-on-report-company-weighs-entertainment-spinoff.html
Sony Corp. (6758) rose as much as 9.2 percent in the U.S after Japan’s Nikkei newspaper reported the company is “leaning toward” spinning off its entertainment division.
So why the hell should I have to be online at all at any time for Steam, since that's not what I'm buying to play, I'm buying a game to play.
It's a second agreement I must agree with to a third party not producing the thing I wanted to buy that if I disagree with ensures I cannot play the thing I wanted to play and paid money for.
If the game is multiplayer and I must connect to the internet to do so, then there's a reason for internet connection. If the game has multiplayer modes and single player, connecting to the internet for the multiplayer is reasoned, but needing to to play the single player mode is not.
But if I disagree with Steam's terms, or if the terms change on either and I disagree with the change, why am I denied the thing I wanted to do, ESPECIALLY if it's something I wasn't buying in the first place that is stopping me (i.e. Steam)?
This is why Steam is a non-starter and will ALWAYS be a non-starter for many people.
It's why GoG.com will make sales and why Valve gives huge breaks on people agreeing to exclusivity on Steam: so that GoG can't get the triple-A titles, ensuring that they're not widely known and are starved of recognition. Same reason Microsoft wanted exclusive deals that banned Netscape installed on any PCs.
I've been following this closely and so far there's nothing that makes me want to get this over a 360. Between the vague answers on the new DRM scheme and the vaguer answers on used games I'm just not sold yet. If they keep the current DRM from 360 which I find to be mostly transparent and the current used game model I'll consider buying one. The live NFL games with on screen fantasy sound like it could be fun. However I haven't seen confirmation that it works without a cable subscription yet or if it's an extra charge on top of the Gold membership.
I think Microsoft is starting a trend that Sony and Nintendo will continue as the market is ready for this. As consumers we've been programmed to accept that you can't trade anything digital. Buying anything on itunes, google play, or steam is a one time purchase, can't trade or even give away. Kindle lets you loan books - if the publisher allows - for a single short period. Get a book loaned to you but something comes up and can't read it in that window? Oh well out of luck!
I haven't read up on it but I would guess it is for the same reasoning. For Directv it was because if you weren't hooked up you couldn't use the PPV and some other pay as you go options. Being specific about why just ads confusion when dealing with millions of people, so they blanket it and say you need to be connected either by phone in the old days, or internet at all times whether you care about these things or not. Not ever doing PPV I've not cared and have technically broken their rules by not being connected to them for 15 years and it still does everything I want. My guess for the XBox is they want to be able to keep current on what their offerings from a TV aspect are. You may get annoying messages, but I doubt it'll be come unusuable as a whole if you don't connect. That would be a nightmare for them.
In a time of global recession M$ decided to release their new platform burdened to the hilt with DRM? Wow - that's not so much shooting yourself in the foot as sticking a live grenade into your boot. Sales of this are gonna tank and they're going to be forced into a Win8 style climbdown.
Also, what happens if the authentication servers go down? My old house the internet connection would drop to virtually useless for days at a time due to Virgin's shoddy infrastructure and the 360 was the only thing left to use. If it has to dial home every day then that's pretty damn useless.
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
All they had to do was make the installation process work just like it does on the 360 where you have to put the DVD in on start up to prove you own a copy or have physical possession of one. They could have improved on that for convenience simply by making a feature to tie it to your profile and require the Internet for that. That way, the worst that could happen is two gamers share the same disk.
No, not happening. The last update I took on my current Xbox changed the screen the awful thing it is now, and introduced ads -- both in games and in the home screen. That's why my current Xbox isn't connected to the network and never will be again.
I will connect it to the network when and if I choose, but if it requires the ability to call home once/day, it's simply not happening.
Microsoft may have visions of this being my entertainment center of the future, but it won't be. And if it is going to require this ability to connect to the internet at will (and from the sounds of it when I even have it turned off due to this low power napping), then this is a non-starter for me.
Microsoft needs to clarify some of this, because the chances of me replacing my current Xbox 360 with something which demands it be able to access the internet when it chooses is pretty much zero.
I don't care about the TV integration, I don't care about the skype integration, I don't care about the web integration, I don't care about enhanced sports watching ... I care about one thing, single player games with no internet requirement. This isn't it.
Now I'm more likely to buy another XBox360 as a spare so I can keep playing the games I have now, but I won't be buying this.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
"Where should I screw our customers today?"
Well, looks like developers finally found a way to drive GameStop and its ilk out of business. First they made it impossible to sell used PC games, now they've finally come for the used console games too.
Perhaps eventually, but I don't see Gamestop and "its ilk" going away anytime soon...not while the store is still stuffed to the walls with every console game that existed before this new model came about.
Hell, I still play Atari games. And the popularity of very simplistic 99-cent games on cell phones and tablets clearly define a market for cheap, simple entertainment. Not to mention the millions backing projects like the Ouya console.
The XBox One model will almost certainly alienate users and create a niche of hardcore gamers whom no matter what will pay, not unlike that same group exists today who pay XBox Live fees for what every other gaming console offers for free. However, we seem to be hung up on the fact that Microsoft or any other company really gives a shit that they're doing that. Perhaps they're not. That's the sad reality in the sheer numbers of customers today. The arrogance of companies defines their knowledge that they'll always have enough customers, no matter how bad we may think they pissed users off.
A gaming company knows gamers. Inside and out. They know the spending habits, and the addictive nature behind it that keeps driving them to spend hundreds. What we fail to realize as consumers is they really don't give a shit who they piss off, because the revenue is almost guaranteed. Kind of like Facebook charging upwards of $100 to send a single email to the Inbox.
I suppose 30 years ago no one ever thought there would be a market to put water in a bottle either...who the hell would ever PAY for water, right?
My guess is that Microsoft is Angry that other companies are making money off the Internet and that they plan on putting a stop to that. This box will probably do its damnedest to charge people to access Netflix, Hulu, and the like. I am also willing to bet that MS is looking at the catastrophic failure of the Wii U with relief as it won't be a competitor instead of the correct way which is in sheer terror that it foretells their own fate if they don't get this perfectly right.
I am not looking forward to the new XBOX that much. My timeline for buying one will be around 2015 and getting a used one. There is a long list of games for my existing XBOX to keep me amused for quite some time. I am looking forward to whatever Valve comes up with and every now and then amuse myself with something on one of my mobile devices.
And there lies the rub. MS probably thinks they are going to do battle with the PS4. I bet their charts don't really show how shattered the whole market is. Does MS realize that one of their competitors is Netflix? The gaming market is part of a larger market called entertainment. People have an entertainment budget and will spend it on different things of which console gaming is just one possible thing. This is something the movie and TV industries have learned the hard way when console gaming vastly reduced people's appetite/budget for network television and movies.
So as MS realizes that people want to do other things with their money and Televisions I suspect that MS will pathetically try to position their console in between people and what they want in order to collect some rent. I love when companies pull this sort of stunt because I always enjoy the show when fantasy crashes into and is steamrolled by reality.
I seriously think the people running Microsoft have completely lost their mind. Every one of their core consumer software products -- other than MS Office -- has turned into a lame iOS clone. Exactly why do they they people buy a smartphone, a laptop, a desktop, a tablet or a gaming console? Do they seriously think people want the same capabilities everywhere? I understand the idea, and in theory is quite elegant. But it's just not reality. It's like a cafeteria that serves up salisbury steak, corn, fruit medley, and chocolate pudding with RC Cola to drink every day for all three meals. Allergic to corn? Too bad. Vegetarian? Too bad. Want diet soda? Too bad. Want breakfast? Too bad. This is what our product does, and it does it exactly this way, and you have no choice and no options. It does everything our marketing team says you want, so if you want something else you must be doing something wrong. Honestly that would work just fine for most people I know that didn't grow up playing on computers and with video games. It seems unbelievably dense to try that now as first gen computer kids are in their 40s.
I think the final nail for the XBox One is the BS for playing used games, since this also means that you can't borrow games from your friends (unless, get this, *you* sign in on your friend's console and play under *your* profile). Couple that with the fact that it seriously damages the secondary market -- who doesn't know someone who recycles games they're done with into credit for the next game -- and there's very little incentive to choose the XBox One over the PS4.
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
Get a Wii U, then you can play on the main TV and allow others to watch TV without interrupting your session.
One last thing: Sometimes I wonder; "Is that someone's signature? Or do they type that at the end of each post?"
There are issues involving travel to remote areas, such as American suburbs in the Midwest. Internet access there is limited in speed and availability. Disclaimer: A friend of mine lives in northern Arkansas, we both loved Halo and talked about it a lot, but never could play together. I later found out that his lack of connectivity isn't particularly unusual for the area.
That means that if i have 2 xbox in separate location i cannot bring my games anymore . :(
i wont pay two time for the full games
If you buy the game on day one for 60 Euros, do you really think you'll get 70% off it three months later when you can pick it up 10?
It's not about making money by killing gamestop, it's about vendor lock-in.
That's the whole Microsoft business model. That's how they keep corporate clients, that's how they've built Windows 8 and the the whole Office suite. Etc etc etc.
The reason they're not releasing any details, is because they're testing the water, looking to see how people react.
Microsoft is completely stupid by doing that. If I cant loan a friend the game, then I'll support all hackers from cracking their system and pirating the hell out of the games.
Microsoft deserves to lose big time for this, as well as all game devs that support such a platform.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
People are mad that they can't share games and have Kinect always listening/watching. People are also annoyed when the inevitable day comes that the servers go down and you can't play your offline, single player game because of it...or just your unreliable internet provider fails you and you can't play your offline, single player game because of it.
But whatever, people will voice their opinion with their wallets.
So we get a $500 voice activated remote for the tv. Cool.
Don't really want one.
On the other hand, for those gamers that detest the controller and only game on the PC... why on earth not install a keyboard option? Or are a few million more customers not worth it? I would think that even if the keyboard was proprietary they'd increase sales by a huge margin.
The most annoying thing on the planet is typing on a console/smart phone/tablet keyboard.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
Nowadays, buying a video game is a lot like buying real state, so many rules and regulations, do's and dont's.
Fuck that shit!!
First, one of the prized features of the Xbox platform is the Xbox Live services. You know, those services that match you up in games with friends and offers social and multimedia feature. YOU KNOW, the service that requires an internet connection.
This might be a fair point if we had a better idea of how many Xbox 360 owners never connect to the internet or are connected but only have the Silver accounts. There are a lot of people out there that only play single player games which means that most of the features that a Gold subscription account offers are completely useless.
Second, pick up ANY smartphone or tablet and realize these devices are constantly online. You may not need to be online to play, but the online services are there in the background making sure your Tweets and Facebook followers are aware of what you are up to and you are kept informed of the world.
True in the case of the smart phone but not so much in the case of the tablet even though the use case might be much smaller for those tablets that aren't online. However, not everyone has Twitter or Facebook running in the background all of the time or even wants people to know what they are doing. A lot of people don't care what their friends "Angry Birds" score is nor do they want to go out there and tell people about theirs. Also, there is a big jump from a smart phone or tablet that is online to a camera and microphone in your living room that is always online. There are major security implications that bear consideration. You can't put an attractive target like that in someones living room without hackers and other such folks wanting to crack it.
I know that in that RARE circumstance where there might be an internet outage or you take your Xbox One to the cottage and want to play some games on a rainy day might be a bummer if the game won't let you on because it can't phone home, but I doubt that will be an issue for most people out there.
Rare for some people, not so rare for others. But what's the point in buying an entertainment device if it can't entertain you when you actually want to be entertained. This is the whole reason that DVRs and time shifting shows became popular - the consumer of the entertainment wants to dictate when, where, and how they are entertained. The device itself should not be the one driving that decision.
To many people, to many it isn't something we use.
Neither my tablet nor my smart phone have data plans. They get wifi turned on and used as needed. So your assertion that ANY of these devices is always connected is bullshit and anecdotal. I don't use Twitter, and I sure as hell wouldn't let Facebook onto my phone.
My current Xbox 360 doesn't connect to the network now, and a replacement one definitely won't be connecting to the internet.
There's not a single on-line feature about the Xbox I have any interest in. I don't play on-line games, and I never have. My XBox doesn't even know any information about my wifi and has no network cable running to it.
You may use these features, and you may actually believe that 99% of all people use them as well, but of the people I know who own Xboxes, about 80% of them don't use the networking feature, and aren't connected to XBox Live. So, for me and my friends, this is a major enough change that most of us probably aren't interested.
I'm more likely to buy a spare XBox 360 than this. What you consider rare and improbable is what I consider the normal use case for it. I'm sure Microsoft won't have their feelings hurt if I don't buy this, because I'm just one guy.
But that doesn't change the fact that I won't be buying this. Because contrary to what you believe, not everyone currently does connect to XBox Live or use the network features.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I read an interview from a MSFT exec yesterday where he said the XBOX One will carry XBOX through the next 10 to 20 yrs. Really? A 20 yr gaming cycle? 20 yrs ago I was playing my Super Nintendo. 10 yrs seems like a stretch for me but doable. I feel like the XBOX 360 is still in pretty strong shape 8 yrs in.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
First, one of the prized features of the Xbox platform is the Xbox Live services.
One of the prized features of the Xbox platform is playing games. Anything that gets in the way of this feature is a bad thing.
a feature that, guess what, you have been supporting for the lat 8 years anyways everytime you turn on the Xbox360 and its signs you into the Live cloud.
Has never happened, will never happen.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
X86 cpu? can it run any windows software? Linux? Will it have an full file system with explorer?
IE with flash and other plug in's?
Two strikes, at least—having to "check in" and not having a clear way to fairly trade used games. So why would anyone give them a dime? People don't buy cars that don't let you drive them where you want.
This basically means an XBox One won't work without an internet connection, since you wouldn't be able to play it in a place without one. In addition, it allows Microsoft to restrict the trade of used games at their whim. This puts the Xbox One in the "do not buy" pile along with the PS4 for me, as the practical implications of their DRM are largely the same.
Looks like Nintendo's the only console manufacturer getting my business this generation. Considering how horribly bass-ackwards Nintendo's online policies have always been, it's hard to believe this is the first generation in which that's a net benefit to us...
You may use these features, and you may actually believe that 99% of all people use them as well, but of the people I know who own Xboxes, about 80% of them don't use the networking feature, and aren't connected to XBox Live.
While both of you may be right, if we look at the actual deviance of 16% compounded by the fact that 66% of that known 80% are actually real, that is not figmentary, and therefore only account for a, relatively speaking, small 23% of the total. Technically then, we only have a limited based of 55%, in real-world terms of course, that do not have such a feature nor need one. However, last year a poll was conducted showing that only 17% of the 82% of people that I personally know could even work the networking features without a diminishment in network performance ranging from 13% to a whopping 92%! To be fair to you, though, you did say "about 80%" which changes some of the numbers which results in an overall expected deviance here of 6%.
In the end, both of you are full of 100% shit with their numbers, but thanks for sharing anyway.
There's a recession in Europe, not in Asia or the US.
I would love to see a reference to this claim, because I think it is too good to be even close to true.
Basically this would not kill the secondhand market, instead it would streamline it. Yes this would probably kill (or at least maim) Gamestop, but that would be because this would eat their lunch.
Using the marketplace to sell used games, for a presumably lower price than new or then what is the point, would be great. Currently you have to either deal with a practically not worth it system via Gamestop (used games sold for $5 off the cost of a new game and the seller getting a pittance) or deal with a potentially shady character off of craigslist and deal with the hassle of setting up a meeting time and place (or wait for something in the mail from ebay, etc.) with no real recourse if the disc doesn't work.
This solution would have no downside. You can buy the game for less than the cost of new (or again whats the point) for a digitally identical product (no worrying about does it actually work) and do it instantly from your living room. For the seller, as long as they get a reasonable percentage of the sales price then they are already ahead of where they would be with Gamestop. It is possible that the seller would not get as much of a return as they would by selling via Craigslist or via eBay, but they would also have less overhead (no mailing, meeting, etc.). Plus I think more people would actually enter into the used game sales market (both buyers and sellers) if this system were in place because it reduces the transactional friction.
All of these things would be great for the consumers and for MSFT, but the one group that would see this as a travesty are the publishers. There is absolutely no way they would support a system that actually made second hand sales easier. For this reason alone I cannot believe there is any way that this rumor is true. Although I would never have been so happy to be proven wrong.
And what about the secondhand market ten years later, after the Xbox Too is released? Will they decide at some point to drop whatever authorization server is needed to play the game disc you have? Will it even become impossible at some point to register new-old-stock shrink-wrapped games? Will there come a time when you can't even take it down out of the attic, dust it off, and play the games you bought 20 years earlier? What, you think still having an Xbox account will help? Just try to see what you can do online with the original Xbox now, and imagine what it would be like if DRM activation was a requirement.
So the hell with the regular secondhand market, what about the retro secondhand market? After all, old consoles and their enormous library of games (even if you don't consider emulation) have to be a major competitor to newer game systems. Oh sure, they won't have this year's NFL roster for the people who do nothing but play the annual sports games, but those games are worth zilch two years later anyhow. It's the games people grew up on and want to play again and again that can hurt the market for new games, so let's nip that in the bud while we (MS, Sony, etc.) still can.
So just throw away that N64 already. If we think you deserve to get some Goldeneye nostalgia, we'll see about letting you rent it for a few years on our newest hardware.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
So why the hell should I have to be online at all at any time for Steam, since that's not what I'm buying to play, I'm buying a game to play.
It's so that the game you bought to play can verify that you did in fact buy it to play.
It's a second agreement I must agree with to a third party not producing the thing I wanted to buy that if I disagree with ensures I cannot play the thing I wanted to play and paid money for.
How is that any different from the government being a third party in every sale of goods?
If the game has multiplayer modes and single player, connecting to the internet for the multiplayer is reasoned, but needing to to play the single player mode is not.
Why would a 2-player game with two controllers like Street Fighter IV need an Internet connection while a 1-player game doesn't?
It doesnt sound like I'll be spending any money on one of those.
Until they get cracked or something, at any rate...
In an interview with Kotaku, Phil Harrison, a MS VP, stated the following:
"The bits that are on that disc, you can give it to your friend and they can install it on an Xbox One," he said. "They would then have to purchase the right to play that game through Xbox Live."
"They would be paying the same price we paid, or less?" we asked.
"Letâ(TM)s assume itâ(TM)s a new game, so the answer is yes, it will be the same price," Harrison said."
Yes, that's right, you can't sell your used games because they'll end up costing the person you sell it to full price anyway. Want to lend a game to a friend? Sorry, full price. Want to bring it over to their house to play? Sorry, full price.
Disgusting.
Does this smell like a BOYCOTT or what? What a bunch of crap.
people wouldn't care if they had showed some "OMGWTFBBQ" gameplay on the announcement.
instead they got 30 minutes of a guy watching tv and skype on tv. like, wtf, my tv has that built in.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
There's no point in even comparing a smartphone to an Xbox. Conflating smartphones (still primarily used as phones, therefore always connected to network) with tablets (often WiFi only and connected only when an available network is within range) actually hurts your argument. (Xboxes are stationary so they don't have the same connectivity problems of Wifi tablets.)
No one I know uses Xbox Live, and of the 4 360 owners I know (myself and 3 others) I'm the only one who has it connected to the Internet. Two of the others are typical gamers who like shooting things, the other is a lady who bought it so she could use Kinect for... whatever it is one uses Kinect for. I think it's yoga or dancing or something... but I don't really know.
Now, the main reason those others never connected is because they don't have WiFi for their Xboxes and they don't have a hub near it due to the layout of their homes. Which brings us to our next difficulty and a fatal flaw in the current Microsoft strategy.
Microsoft, like many before them, has contempt for video games. They want a system that's an "everything box" and "used by the whole family." "Women are the new core, " is not just a pickup line for Microsoft executives, it signals a major change in how they are positioning the Xbox in the home.
Currently, my Xbox is hooked up in my office to a computer monitor with HDMI inputs. Why isn't it hooked to the big screen TV in the living room, one might ask? Because if it were, my wife would literally have killed me by now. Then she'd have all that blood to clean up off the carpet, not to mention disposing of the body. I love my wife, so I don't want to put her through that.
So, our set up now assures her that she will never have to miss a single episode of Law & Order: SVU, and I will never have to watch a single episode of Law & Order: SVU. Marital Bliss!
But it means I don't need to use the TV functions of the Xbox. If I want to watch Netflix, or Amazon, or HBOGo, I just switch the monitor over to my computer, although when I'm watching TV I prefer to do it with my wife (unless it's SVU or something about those non-Star Trek Cardassians.)
Now, if I do what Microsoft wants, and hook the Xbox One (which I'm not planning to ever get, but I said that about 360, so you never know) up in the living room, I will no longer be able to use it to play video games.
In which case, aren't I better off with a Web connected Blu Ray player, or a Roku Player?
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Depends who you talk to, and when you talk to them. For instance, most times your boss might go "Recession? What recession?" if you ask them about it. But when it comes time for performance and compensation reviews, "We cannot offer you as much because we're in a recession".
I sell a game to them for $10 while they sell it back for $40. Makes sense they're in business but its not even a 50% cut for the customer. If MS gives the user at least 70% or higher, that'll be good.
According to that, you are NOT allowed multiple accounts and if you're found, they can disable ALL identified accounts for breech of TOS.
The next thing you know... is that not only does this thing actually indeed require a constant internet connection, but the damned thing also needs to be plugged into a power outlet to supply it electricity too!
There are some killer DRM free games coming out for PC these days. Not from the big shops necessarily but from a lot of little guys.
Even on the DRM games, (and I can't believe I'm saying this) the prices are cheap enough to justify not being able to resell it.
I think the whining is natural, and what a lot of people want to see some games! Come E3 and i think the mood will be much better.
Well, there's the option of "not buying one", but then if you say that, you're as outlandish and alien (and moreover plain old DEAD WRONG!) for not buying it.
"You'll miss out on the cool new games!!!"
"You're on your own!"
"Can I get you some tinfoil for your hat?"
"You anticapitalist hippy econazi lunatic!!!"
And just plain old "You're just trolling"
Like freedom of speech, the freedom to "vote with your wallet" is only acceptable if you're not inconveniencing them or making choices they wouldn't agree with.
But I wonder when the "One Red Ring to rule them all..." meme will fire up?
Basically this would not kill the secondhand market, instead it would streamline it.
Actually, it appears that it will "streamline" it right into Microsoft-owned territory, never to leave. Also, it would be less of a market and more like a company store, with all the attendant evils.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
" Sales of this are gonna tank"
Yea, I'll take that bet.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
You can buy the game for less than the cost of new (or again whats the point) for a digitally identical product (no worrying about does it actually work) and do it instantly from your living room.
If they did that, the publishers would revolt. Think about it, Microsoft would be selling digital copies of the game for less than retail and probably not obliged to give any of the money back to the publisher. Of course, I suppose they could split the money three ways, but if you're getting less than a third of the retail price of the game in exchange for trading it, is it still worth it? An allternative way I see this working is if Microsoft allows you to "return" digitally downloaded games for a small refund in Microsoft dollars (M$) which can only be spent on other Xbox digital purchases. The carrot is the ability to get money for returned games, the stick is you can only spend the money on the Xbox. Lock-in achieved.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Presumably this will be used for DRM on movies, not letting more than 4 people watch at a time or whatever it is?
How quickly people forget the past. Buy music for your Zune? Microsoft changes their business model and your device becomes a brick. Why on earth would I want to buy a device that ties me permanently to a company. The xBox 360 is good enough for me and when it no longer is, I'll find another solution. Hopefully by that time, a embedded Linux monster is developed.
http://www.xkcd.com/1215/ :)
I agree that the publishers would revolt, which is why I'm questioning the source of the rumor since I'm highly skeptical about the concept.
If they did a three way split, it wouldn't need to be equal parts. I could see a method of the seller and the publisher equally sharing a large part and then MSFT getting a small percentage (e.g., 45% seller, 45% publisher, 10% MSFT). Although your point still stands about whether this would be seen as worth it for the seller. If it was truly equitable, the seller would get the lion's share and the publisher and MSFT both get a smaller percentage but I don't think the publishers would buy into that.
In the alternative that you propose, who would be funding this small refund? If it is too small then it just isn't worth it to the consumer to file for the return. If it is too large (for undefined quantities of too large and too small), then how does it benefit MSFT to bankroll it if they are not able to resell the returned license?
That's definitely the buzz going around the net.... That between Sony and Microsoft both moving to digital game downloads and no physical optical media to buy anymore, it will be the end of the used game shops.
Of course, I can see something else happening too.... There's a pretty massive collection of existing, used titles out there, just like there are plenty of used music CDs in circulation (even if no more were produced starting today).
It may turn out that the interest in "vintage" consoles and games increases, and rather like antique shops, the used game shops stick around indefinitely. (I could see a pretty good market developing for refurbishing and repairing older consoles too. Maybe each GameStop would have a tech. working full-time in the back room so you could drop off that PS3 or XBox 360 for service work, ready to pick back up the next afternoon?)
Already, the web sites like ArsTechnica who got previews of the new PS4 commented that the graphics were really only incrementally better than what we see now. We've reached a point where most game titles look "good enough" with today's hardware. It's tough to really amaze people to the point the audio/visual portion motivates them to spend hundreds and start over collecting new game titles. (I think to pull that off, you'd need a console that made all the games truly look just like live video/movie footage. Get it to where the stuff we're used to seeing as opening or cut scenes is actually the entire game. Until then? Nah, Microsoft has to sell the new console based on gimmicks like voice commands.)
Possibly one of the more insightful posts I have seen in awhile, but I guess some find it interesting.
This is totally what is going through their collective minds, bet on it. I wonder what companies like EB Games think of things like this. May be some monopoly court cases in the future for Microsoft yet again perhaps.
Anyway I will take the obvious step further and say not only will this be a market place transaction (whereby EVERY transaction Microsoft makes a substantial cut, which would further reduce the number of transactions increasing new game sales), but in addition these will not be monetary but rather "Microsoft Points". Which of course you can ONLY spend on more online Microsoft stuff. I believe that is what you call WIN-WIN. It will also likely increase the liquidity (to borrow an investment phrase) of "Points" making them more useful. More developers will see opportunistic and produce more for availability, and every single transaction MS will be making a percentage.
If they can get away with it, it is genius really (evil genius perhaps). Then again, if they offer up (at least initially to soften the blow) significant incentives to users they will accept it. Then when it becomes entrenched, it is just how things are done now, and you milk it for profits.
Well, looks like developers finally found a way to drive GameStop and its ilk out of business
If you watch GameStop's ads, you'll see that they're already shifting their business model - A lot of their ads are about trading in iPads and Nexus tablets, not games.
Not saying I totally disagree with you, but there's SO much going on by way of invading privacy and data-mining people's info, it's impossible to keep up with all of it. People become numb to it after so long. We're at the point now where people only get concerned when they see a very serious and obvious threat. (EG. Word comes out that everyone you know who uses a credit card to buy groceries from a certain store winds up with mysterious charges on their card a month or two later.)
The fact that Skype probably leaks your conversations to law enforcement officials on demand? Disturbing -- yet ultimately kind of a thing when you consider Skype is free to use (at least for a pure Skype to Skype call) and totally optional to use in the first place. I mean, my workplace isn't going to stop taking advantage of it as a free solution to video teleconferencing two meeting rooms in different cities together over it. (Not unless we start holding meetings about illegal operations or something,anyway!) It provides real cost savings and solves a real problem for us, and there's no immediate reason that we'd be worried that law enforcement would WANT to listen in to what we're saying on those calls.
XBox 1? Probably more of the same. People aren't going to have a big issue with it needing "always on" Internet connections if that's what they're already paying for at home anyway with their broadband. You worried the XBox might reveal something it's not supposed to? Unplug it during that time. Whatever....
Also, what happens if the authentication servers go down? .
That is probably why they are building a 300,000 server farm to run it.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
Most of GameStop's profits come from used game sales. They make next to no profit on new games--that money goes almost wholly to the publisher. Reselling used games, especially recent ones, permits much higher profits. A new game is $60. While GameStop doesn't publish their trade-in prices, from what I can tell they pay $20 or less for all used games, and most games are going to pull in $10 or less. So, that $60 game you sold back to GameStop for (generously) $20, they will resell for $55. That's a quick and easy $35 profit for them.
If they are left only selling used games for the PS3/360 on back, you're talking much less profit per game. On top of that, demand for those games is going to diminish as the new generation takes off (assuming it does.) This is just not a viable business model that will promote growth of the bottom line.
This is not really in defense of GameStop, as making console games work more like PC games was pretty much inevitable, I'm just saying a retail gaming store like GameStop wouldn't be able to survive by changing into a "vintage" shop. That aims it at a totally different--much smaller--clientele. From a budget standpoint, it makes very little sense. No doubt GS is scrambling to figure out what to do once the used game gravy train stops.
Check out my world simulator thingy.
Connection, camera, mic always on, and communications centralised to ease eave dropping...
When has the average consumer ever cared about DRM? People have gotten upset about an "always on" requirement, but DRM without that has proven marketable.
I suspect there will be a lot of variation between individual games in what the requirements are - just like Steam.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
GoG is by far the best and easiest way to get old PC games, because they work out the emulation and such for you. There are still people who sell boxed copies of old games for more than GoG prices, but that's mostly the collectors aspect, I suspect.
Given a good online service to buy old console games cheap - like GoG (and to a limited extent Steam) provides on the PC - why would a second-hand store be needed?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
If sellers get more money from this than they would from Gamestop, and buys pay less than they would from Gamestop, people are going to be happy with the result. These are console games - "locking them in" to a given console is the basic premise.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
They were extremely vague on the actual gaming hardware for a reason - if they had something that was the same power or more as their competitor (the PS4) they would have made sure everyone knew about it.
Their aim isnt a gaming console, its an all-in-one entertainment center that also happens to play games. Cable integration, NFL/Sports partnerships, exclusive TV shows, etc, are all aimed at capturing average joe.
From a business point of view it may be very successful.
I am more concerned about their concept of Kinect 2 will be always listening. Wonder what privacy concerns we're now going to have to have with this. Might make the PSN getting hacked look like Christmas.
You need to realize that we on /. are not the target audience. A buddy of mine hasn't stopped talking about how amazing the One sounds, and how he'll be getting one as *soon* as it's available. I fear he is far from the only one...
What else does it need to do? Ask the retailler if I have the receipt?
Most of GameStop's profits come from used game sales. They make next to no profit on new games--that money goes almost wholly to the publisher.
That's what I thought, too. Then I read this today:
Interestingly, [GameStop president Tony] Bartel revealed that 70 per cent of GameStop's $1 billion market sales comes from the sale of new games rather than pre-owned ones.
True story; we just went into a used computer place to look at what we could pick up in a slightly used machine. The salesman said; "And if this were new, you'd have to have Windows 8." I mentioned that Microsoft did have an update -- but we agreed; "It still forced Metro on people."
So the XBox One is going to raise the price of used XBox 360s? I for one, welcome the new evil overlord!
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
True story; we just went into a used computer place to look at what we could pick up in a slightly used machine. The salesman said; "And if this were new, you'd have to have Windows 8." I mentioned that Microsoft did have an update -- but we agreed; "It still forced Metro on people."
The UPGRADE for many would be a box that doesn't suddenly stop working. Of course, I currently have Xbox Gold and the networking on the XBox SUCKS. It spends as much time "searching for server" as it does playing a multiplayer. Now they want to add another layer of complexity without guaranteeing the QOS on their current platform. Bravo. *slow clap*
So the XBox One is going to raise the price of used XBox 360s? I for one, welcome the new evil overlord!
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Sounds like you won't be able to just put a disk in, and play, without Allmighty Microsoft's Xbox Server's blessing.
I hope Sony doesn't follow the suit...
That's revenue, not profit. Last I heard, it was about a 50/50 split in terms of revenue but I guess it favors new games by 20% now. You have to dig into their numbers a bit to find the net revenue, which is dramatically higher for used games (for obvious reasons.)
Check out my world simulator thingy.
I have not purchased a game console since the PS2 and N64 days. And I do not plan to purchase any new ones for the foreseeable future due to the current BS in the gaming industry. I sure hope there's another game console crash they bring great consoles back like the NES, PS1, SNES.
Reasons not to buy thew new game consoles:
1) internet always on requirement
2) needs to dial home
3) you don't own the game, it is only a license
4) you cannot sell the game without having to go through a bunch of hoops. Often times because it's a license and not ownership. Easier to go through a divorce
5) call me paranoid, but the cameras are always watching you
6) ads and more ads, even MOAR ads
7) more sophisticated games require more control which are much better on PC platforms.
8) web browsing is a bitch and a downright chore!
Reason to buy a new game console: ........geee, I'm drawing a blank
1)
This means they people who are way more apt then me will try even harder to hack the Xbox One and turn it into something every one actually wants.
The girlfriend and I celebrated the release of GTAIV by playing it in one of those cabins you can rent in state parks. All the Boy Scouts were mad jealous.
The hackers should form a global union and all promise to NEVER buy one and NEVER hack one.
And tell everyone to just skip it completely. Don't buy it, don't play it, nothing.
Let the stupid thing die on the store shelves.
Renting them and gamestop from selling used. PC for me and not MS even if that means no or few games. If everyone followed the game makers would have to follow.
They are just bound and determined to make sure this console is stillborn at release.
This space unintentionally left blank.
The correct response is, "That's funny, both of the job offers I received were for more, how are they not part of the same recession?"
It's not a given that your employer will give you periodic raises. Most employers have a policy to do so in order to stay ahead of inflation and limit attrition. As an employee, if you're not taking an active role in determining your value to other employers and holding your employer accountable, you shouldn't expect your employer to just give you more money.
Everywhere, for free....
The HALO tv series is a joke. Like BattleStar Galactica 1980 level of joke.
Oh no you didn't. It's on now!
I can turn on my old CBS Colecovision and show it to my nephew, and I can make him play with my old gameboy and even my dreamcast.
But no luck with this new Xbox: I guess 15 years from now they are moving to something else and this xbox will be just a brick.
They better hope that someone hack the system fast.
Oh and thank you for screwing up the videgame console in order to sell me you multimedia trojan horse, like Windows 8 and its tablet interface.
You want to sell me games as a service? Fine: I got a PC for that, no need for an other x86 box in the house.
I've had Internet since the 90s, and can't really imagine not having it. However, there are still people out there without Internet access. For instance, two of my younger brother in laws are gamers, but they don't have Internet at home. They get by using their phones for Facebook and browsing. As more people use tablets and smart phones, there may be less of a reason to have Internet at home. So basically people like this won't be able to use the Xbox One. These are most likely younger people that would make up the typical gamer market.
I'm older and can't imagine not having Internet at home. However, I remember getting a 360 5 or 6 years ago and Xbox Live being down and then spotty for a good month. It was bad enough they gave everyone a free game as an apology. I'm not going to buy a console that may or may not work depending on if my Internet or their service is unavailable. There are plenty of old games I haven't played that I can go back and play. I never played Earthbound and plan on starting it soon. My kids are young enough that they don't remember the consoles older than this generation. This means they have a huge catalog of games to choose to play from.
I was talking to someone yesterday and they asked what does the Xbox One mean to us for games. I said they will probably look marginally better. They are too focused on doing everything but making a gaming console. I'm going to stick with my Wii U for this generation.
Also, what happens if the authentication servers go down? .
That is probably why they are building a 300,000 server farm to run it.
It's one server farm, that's still a SPOF.
So to rephrase the question, what happens when the authentication servers are unavailable?
To stay on topic, I bet this is why it requires always online, license checking. If you sell your game but never go back online then you can have your cake and eat it too.
But if you can only transfer a game through their online market, and they only pay out in credit at their online store, then if you sell your game but never go back online you'll never get paid.
You won't have your cake, and you didn't get to eat it, too.
Most of GameStop's profits come from used game sales. They make next to no profit on new games--that money goes almost wholly to the publisher. Reselling used games, especially recent ones, permits much higher profits. A new game is $60. While GameStop doesn't publish their trade-in prices, from what I can tell they pay $20 or less for all used games, and most games are going to pull in $10 or less. So, that $60 game you sold back to GameStop for (generously) $20, they will resell for $55. That's a quick and easy $35 profit for them.
Who buys a used game when a new game is less than 10% more? I often buy used (games, books, cars, houses), but I expect a discount for picking up someone else's cast off--more in the range of 30 to 40%, at least.
The game knows I have the game and the decrypt key
But it doesn't know that you obtained the game and the decrypt key legitimately.
What else does it need to do? Ask the retailler if I have the receipt?
Yes. For example, the Ouya platform implements a similar policy to Steam and Google Play Licensing, and it actually refers to this data as a "receipt".
M$ has made a fabulous miscalculation with the XBOX ONE !
No need to re-iterate the details as the title says it all.
Dear Me. What a Slow Rowling Failure over the next 6 months (holiday season !).
The 'Games Division' is M$ bread and butter, err, was !
No more after this failure de jour for Fuhrer Balmer.
And M$ stock is on a rocket to ... Where ? ... down in a few days just when the bubbly hits the Balmer brain.
The recent Simcity requiring online DRM check backfired when their system could not keep up with the load caused major outages and non-MMORPG gamers are not used outages.
Thank you! I had no idea about GoG. Looked it up and I've just found Tex Murphy: Under a Killing Moon. I can't imagine how a game from 1994 will run on a 2013 system, especially a Mac, but the site claims it will.
I think it will be jailbreaked in two weeks of release, the break will be patched over, then a new one will show up, repeat ad nauseum.
I don't really think the used games are generally only getting discounted by 10%? I've bought a number of used games at GameStop over the years, and typically, I pick them up for no more than $15-35 each. They're also typically titles I'm specifically seeking (because, for example, one of our kids is asking for it), and they're not even readily available on the new market anymore. (Might still be in production, but most retail stores don't bother to stock it on their shelves anymore due to waning interest.)
I think you make a good point. I'm no longer a gamer but my 16 year olds are. After upgrading to the latest XBox kinect last year and spending a little over $500 plus games plus bigger hard drives etc... I expect I will not be motivated to 'upgrade' again until this one burns out or just quits working. Now that said it is the third XBox we've had, the original, then the orignal 360, and now this 360 slim + kinect.... each upgrade happened when the previous finally quit working. Anyhow, good point :)
Well.... there went all my enthusiasm out of the window. I will wait for the dust to settle before i throw any money at this thing. I can already picture this thing being worst than any of E.A. stunts.
my ouya has shipped
good dch v sn: http://www.sonnhanippon.com/
seems the most obvious solution is to require the disc be inserted for used games.
brandnew copies will register with console and human and run without needing the disc
You guys wont believe this but I got a Microsoft points card code and it redeemed just fine! Awesomeness!!!! Got it at freemspointsforever com