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Microsoft's Ticking Time Bomb Is Windows XP
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Shona Ghosh writes at PC Pro that the final deadline for Windows XP support in April 2014 will act as the starting pistol for developing new exploits as hackers reverse-engineer patches issued for Windows 7 or Windows 8 to scout for XP vulnerabilities. "The very first month that Microsoft releases security updates for supported versions of Windows, attackers will reverse-engineer those updates, find the vulnerabilities and test Windows XP to see if it shares [them]," says Tim Rains, the director of Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing group. Microsoft says that XP shared 30 security holes with Windows 7 and Windows 8 between July 2012 and July 2013. Gregg Keizer says that if a major chunk of the world's PCs remains tied to XP, as seems certain, Microsoft will face an unenviable choice: Stick to plan and put millions of customers at risk from malware infection, or backtrack from long-standing policies and proclamations." (Read on for more.)
"In either case, it will face a public relations backlash, whether from customers who complain they've been forsaken or those angry at Microsoft for pushing them to upgrade when, in the end, they didn't need to." Microsoft makes little or no revenue from customers with old PCs, and desperately wants them to buy a new Windows system of some sort. "It's very easy to say 'just upgrade,' but not all business can do so," says Lawrence Pingree, citing money, resources and mission-critical software. "One of the main reasons why people cannot leave XP is compatibility with other software." Nor is Microsoft blameless. XP has hung around because of the mistakes Microsoft made with Windows Vista, the OS flop that outgoing CEO Steve Ballmer copped to as his biggest regret. If Vista had been more like Windows 7, or had shipped at its original "Longhorn" timetable of 2004, then been followed three years later by Windows 7, XP would not have had the opportunity to lock up the ecosystem for a decade. Pingree has a suggestion for Microsoft. ""If it's such a big problem, maybe they should offer an 'Extended Life' [support] subscription and charge for it.""
to upgrade!
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Microsoft should extend support for XP...but only on a cash-for-patch basis. Sell patches at $5 a pop for XP user's, or a one Year Security Update Subscription for $20.
It's a win-win situation....
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
If windows 7/8 wasn't a downgrade from XP in every respect, this discussion wouldnt be here.
Tip: make good software = customers buy. Make software which does nothing but negatives for the previous owners = no buy.
If DX11 wasnt forced on me, i would still be using XP. Suppose thats one way they got us to upgrade, April 2014 will be the last straw.
You can run XP in a virtual machine if you have software you must absolutely run that cannot run under Windows 7 or 8.
If your business cannot support the cost of an upgrade, you really aren't doing it right and probably aren't making much money anyway.
Windows 7 has been out for over FOUR freaking years. Quite the whiny bitching already.
I feel a Slashdot Poll might be in our future:
Number of Windows XP security updates Microsoft will release in the first and second year after they said they wouldn't:
- 0
- 1-5
- 5-10
- 11 or more
New things are always on the horizon
Although Windows XP still works wonderfully for me, and although I'd like to continue using it (with security updates of course), I really can't complain. It's one of the longest supported OS's in PC history. Nothing else has come even close, and no vendor is talking about having anywhere near a decade+ of support in the near future, either.
I don't respond to AC's.
The fundamental flaw here is this is all assuming that Microsoft is somehow better at identifying vulnerabilities than the hackers themselves. All evidence suggests that this is not the case.
Stick to plan and put millions of customers at risk from malware infection
Not trolling, but sticking with XP - even with continued support - is still putting millions of customers at risk from malware infection. Win 7 is much more secure (I assume 8 is too but I won't touch Win 8).
One of my clients is going to stick with XP (it's on about 1/2 their systems) and only upgrade to 7 if the workstation needs to be replaced. Some of their workstations have been running for 8 - 10 years and still meet the needs of their users. If it ain't broke why replace it?
Photoshop 7.0 was released in 2002, AFTER Windows XP.
If today there is a new bug that can be exploited, do I expect that Adobe fix it for me, free of charge?
Since for my day-to-day use Photoshop 7 is good enough, why am I "forced" to upgrade?
Microsoft isn't putting customers at risk by not patching what will then be a 13-year old operating system. They had a full life cycle plan in place and customers have had many years advance notice to plan their transition. The lack of resources placed on transitioning legacy software to something other than an end-of-life OS is squarely the fault of the customers. The people in charge obviously don't place a great deal of importance on security or support. They have made their decision, let them suffer the consequences.
Red Hat offers 10 years of support. And new versions of Red Hat are generally better than previous versions, so there isn't as much need to hold on to old versions.
Source: http://www.serverwatch.com/server-news/red-hat-extends-linux-support.html
If your statement is correct...
This is absurd. Yes, Vista was a disaster, but Windows 7 was a huge upgrade from XP.
then why won't all XP software run on Windows 7, and why hasn't everyone seen the error of their ways, and upgraded their XP systems?
My dad owns a number of companies which all went out and bought extra XP systems and stuck them in a closet for future deployment because of the software compatibility issues between XP and Windows 7 and later. Specifically, they don't want to have to re-buy all their machines, and re-buy all their existing software, and rewrite from scratch all their Microsoft COM component based glue code the next time they hire a new person into the office.
Microsoft is out of its teeny little mind if it believes small cash flow based businesses have the available capital to enable them to do this; the incompatibility is killing adoption of anything later than Windows XP for almost every business I know that has 100 or less employees, which is 95% of all businesses in the U.S..
New features for life on XP - no.
Security features for 5 more years, if it means back porting them - yes.
How many of these anti-xp storys are sponsored by microsoft...
I wonder if they know they'll face the same problems when win7s time is up.
That's the price of making a gem surrounded by piles of shit like vista, winME, and windows8.
Who the hell wants to be bothered with cumbersome upgrades of an operating system just to get modest and often questionable improvements? Your average consumer is basically left with the option of buying a new computer to upgrade their OS.
I'm so glad I switched to a Mac over five years ago. I'd rather not have to worry about my OS these days. Upgrades are free. Can't beat that.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
No, the time bomb are people still running XP....
support your local moms. free the innocent stem cells. upgrade to POT (Personal Open Terminals) to share all the goodwill. don't forget to lighten our load & give away more than we keep in this time of inequity.....
Its time to get rid of XP. Please, Microsoft, do not backtrack on this.
Old people need to get with the times and so do these corporations who are living in the stone age.
Come on guys, wake up. Sorry if it means you need to retrain your granny or corporate monkeys, but it's part of life... we all have to learn new things in order to advance.
Seriously, it's 12 years old. If you're using 12-years-old Linux kernel today, nobody would give a fuck about your problems. Because you using 12-years-old shit is the biggest problem itself.
The key to this dilemma comes down to one word:
"Microsoft will face an unenviable choice: Stick to plan and put millions of customers at risk from malware infection,"
I don't think that Microsoft actually considers these people "customers." I think MS very distinctly considers them non-customers of their flagship product, since they have not purchased any of the four latest versions (Vista, 7, 8, 8.1). All of Microsoft's customers should have followed its exhortations over the last five years to spend a few bucks and upgrade dump their now-13-year-old OS.
It's indisputable that across the computing industry, the perceived mandate of legacy support for next-gen OSes is increasingly feeble. In non-desktop markets - e.g., consoles and phones - the presumption was never there to begin with (starting with the Super Nintendo!) Web programming exhibits similar tendencies - how many Java applications from back in the day won't run on modern browsers? And won't that include the entire Silverlight platform in a few years? The tendency is that the river of upgrades will carry all projects of significance along in its current, and the projects that gather on the banks (i.e., don't receive newest-OS upgrades) are... detritus. For right or wrong, that's the view.
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
And then there is the overhead expenses (roughly the same as salary).
And then there is difficulty in layoffs...
Those computers need to run Windows XP software - that's all. Wine just runs those programs by now. And they have free patches.
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/ReactOS seems like spot on here.
Difference is the reaction on an attack:
Microsoft: "You should have upgraded"
Wine: "Patch is coming".
It sure isn't going to be the year of the Linux Desktop, but we've learnt who is more trustworthy on the long term.
between a server OS and desktop. Only what applications you install.
And you know what this is ?? I am here to explain !!
F is Fucked !!
U is Up !!
D is Deliberately !!
Fucked Up Deliberately !!
Yeah, after 13 years, an operating system just starts to wear out. The colors fade, the sounds get scratchy, the error messages use dated language, it starts burning oil and eventually, the tranny goes and you're stuck with a heap.
But hey! I like classics! I'd still be on DOS if the hardware didn't give up the ghost. (The computer's engine went and I couldn''t get a new one - it was like having a Karmann Ghia).
Anyway, Windows is like a Detroit automobile: loaded with bugs and after the warranty period, you are on your own.
So, in January or February I'm gett'n a MacBook and pretend I'm rich.
More of linux shop here but the one remaining ms os pc which had updates until november has just been deemed illegal by somebody last month.
I briefly tried to deal with the issue - the supplier hp told me to get lost, and once through to the right region (hp's website royally sucks) the human blamed ms and gave me a wrong phone number for buck passing.
I have put the machine on a list for debian upgrades for next year.
Do you have the $6.5 million Microsoft wants from our organization to upgrade our workstations to Windows 7? $6.5 million is a damn good reason not to upgrade.
The problem is that you can't upgrade to Windows 7 anymore. Also, you can't buy a new computer with Windows 7. You have to go to Windows 8. Which it's crap, compared to Windows 7. Whoever upgraded to Windows 7 is holding on to it and isn't going to move to Windows 8 until... never.
Sometime in Jan or Feb 2014, MS should send a patch to XP with a nag popup. The popup will state "XP End of Life April 8, 2014. Please upgrade or you will loose internet connectivity". The number of times this popup appears increases the closer you get to Apr 8. Come April 8, all ports on XP are closed permanently. This illustrates why Open Source OSs are preferable to closed OSs. With Linux/*BSD... one can, if desired and have the knowledge, patch it themselves if they need to run a very old release of a system.
The procrastinators need to get off their a** and upgrade their systems, replace them with *nix/MacOS boxes, or whatever it takes to get off Windows XP. Windows XP is an 11-year old OS and users have known for years that this date was coming. For users to be upset at Microsoft is the height of absurdity. Apple gives their operating systems significantly shorter support and yet nobody complains about them.
The problem for many businesses is that they waited too long to upgrade. I work for a company with 10K+ workstations. Until earlier this year all were XP. The company had held out for Windows 8, unfortunately, Win8 was completely unusable in the business environment. So in order to mitigate the risk of XP, the push began to get systems upgraded to Win7. Unfortunately there are many, many apps that are not compatible with the Win7 Environment, and no-one is willing to spend the money to upgrade those apps at this time, knowing full well that Microsoft has to do something better than Win8 for the business. Why upgrade the Apps to Win7 or Win8 when we can wait for Win9 and see if then its worth spending the money? In the meantime there will be XP machines floating around by the hundreds, and even hundreds more XP apps moved into virtualized environments. The sooner that Microsoft acknowledges that they boned their business customers with Win8, the sooner things can move forward.
http://slashdot.org/story/114371
or
http://en.windows7sins.org/
etc etc
They must have a copies sitting around, no one bought them when it was released.
Open source XP and let the community patch it. And I am only half joking!
Silence is a state of mime.
Go and look at the *nix distros and see if one suits you. All of them now have "Live" DVD's, some even have "Live" CD's. You can simple reboot the machine with them in the drive, and try and see if you like it.Push a button, and they will install BESIDES your existing Windows, and you can read your data right away.
Some names, OpenSuse, Redhat, Debian, Mint, Ubuntu, Gentoo. You can enjoy an absolutely stunning array of choice, and know that you will *never* be force to upgrade again, just burn the Live disc and give it a shot.
If you absolutely have to use some Windows XP tools, there is a software wrapper called WINE that will run many Windows programs unaltered. If you want support for a Windows Tool there is Crossover Office, who will provide support for a fee, but it will help you to evaluate the platform in stages.
For me the "cut the cord" moment, was the need to but a "special" cable (USB) and use "special" software (XML data) to get data of my cell phone.
Let this be your Personal Computer revolution....
This netbook I bought nearly two years ago arrived with windows 7 on it. I tried it out, just for fun, and oh boy what crap it was. I seem to remember it being so sluggish it was a bad joke to ever install it on this computer. Today, I'm running Linux Mint Maya 64 with Mate on it, which has turned it into a truly excellent, very portable, responsive little computer. It even fits inside a hotel room safe. I just can't think why anybody uses Microsoft.
...you haven't used it.
Its funny because Ubuntu/Mint EOL'ed their various versions which run on these slower machines. now if you want accelerated graphics you're out of luck or running a 5 or more year old kernel/x11. I guess its be vulnerable or spend.
There will be no second act here if the protagonist solves the dilemma in the opening minutes sir.
Of course there will. Various ways for this to happen include the man behind the man, minor crime reveals major plot, etc.
XP supports legacy 16 and 8 bit stuff
What 8-bit stuff are you talking about? The only 8-bit software that runs on Windows XP runs in an emulator such as FCEUX. The 16-bit software runs in a virtual machine anyway, called NTVDM (for MS-DOS software) or WOWExec (for Windows 3.x software).
Well maybe if Microsoft would quit fucking with the GUI
Then unfuck it with Classic Shell already.
Or something. For people with zero brains about software, security doesn't register. There's this object they need, and so long as they don't kick the legs out from under it, it should work.
Then along comes the seller (the whole "licensing" concept doesn't register either) and says "I'm gonna let people into your office to smash up your table. And all the crazy stuff you put on top of it."
That's just Not Done in the world of tables, and likewise for software in a lot of people's minds.
Add something about, "Pay up. I wouldn't want anything to happen to that nice little business you got there." and to plenty of people it's going to look like extortion, not the obvious result of the fact that software is not actually like a table.
(Personally, I'd want to say, "Move to open source. You can do what you want there." But I know that's even stupider than Microsoft. What are the chances someone who doesn't want to move from Windows to Windows is going to move all the way to some extrasolar weirdness?)
For varying definitions of "upgrade".
So far, I have not identified any benefits for me from using 7 compared to using XP. But I have trouble with a few pieces of software that refuse to run. Now, please explain to me again why I would possibly WANT Windows7?
Your smooth Windows 7 operation has caused you to conveniently forget the maladies you suffered under XP. Not the least of which was the extreme susceptibility to infection that Vista and Windows 7 massively reduced by heightened security posture and UAC! There's also the issue of XP's massive slowing due to the recently disclosed/discussed exponential update algorithm.
You wanna take a swipe at Microsoft for useless change? Go ahead and bash them for forcing Metro onto the desktop. Or, choose any of a number of other utterly pointless and detrimental changes that they have made over the versions. But, don't discount valid and useful improvements. XP is, to this day, a far more vulnerable OS than Win7.
When I became fed up with Un(usabil)ity in the Ubuntu 11.04 days, I did sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop and never looked back. So what AC wrote is true: the owner of a PC running GNU/Linux isn't forced into a particular GUI in the same way that iPad and PlayStation owners are forced into the selection that those platforms offer.
it's been a very long time since I've seen a piece of software that runs on Windows XP that doesn't run on WINE as well
You mean like the client for the iTunes Store? You can't buy media in an Internet-disconnected VM, and the last time I checked AppDB, iTunes was rated "garbage". I've already checked Google Play and Amazon MP3, and the song I want to buy isn't there.
Perhaps stockpiling machines compatible with existing paid-for peripherals and paid-for proprietary software is cheaper than re-buying multi-thousand-dollar peripherals and multi-thousand-dollar proprietary software.
Windows Vista was fine as of the first service pack, but it never recovered from the PR disaster despite Microsoft's attempt to rebrand SP1 as Mojave.
Use a firewall on the host to protect network access.
If you've made yourself dependent on hardware only supported by one OS, an OS which sucks, then you've set yourself up for failure.
Then what's the alternative to setting oneself up for failure? I was under the impression that multi-thousand-dollar printers, multi-thousand-dollar CNC machines, and the like typically weren't sold with OS X compatibility or compatibility with forthcoming versions of Windows as a bullet point. Peripheral manufacturers would prefer that end users re-buy peripherals.
If there was a way that you could transfer that Windows 7 copy and license to some disgruntled Windows 8 user, you could probably turn a tidy profit.
Have gnu, will travel.
Or put Windows 7 the fuck back on sale and make millions!
If your 16-bit code is as 16-bit as you think it is, why can't you run it in Windows 3.1 in DOSBox?
Hey genius, basically every netbook in the world ships with 1GB of RAM and Win7 needs 0.9 to boot. Also the chip is equivilant to a 2001 Pentium 4. So maybe you're just an idiot for buying it and it's not Microsoft's fault. Hmmmm.
no vendor is talking about having anywhere near a decade+ of support in the near future, either.
Canonical offers free (as in beer) upgrades from one version of Ubuntu to the next. So just starting from 4.10 (Warty Warthog) through five years after the next LTS (14.04, Trusty Tahr) includes nearly fifteen years of support from October 2004 through April 2019. Paid upgrades don't count.
They should release a killswitch themselves and cut off the networking substack directly. On day D, no more XP connected to the internet. Problem solved. You'll see millions of people all around the world rush to their IT shop or their store buy new computers!
This never happens to any of the iCult as Apple obsoletes them completely every two years. The iSteve is laughing in his grave.. "13 years of support!?! Are you fucking crazy?"
And not for nothin I had XP until this past year and did not have one virus and did not run any active virus protection. Once or twice a year I would download one and do a full scan only to have cookies removed. I'm still amazed at how some people seem unable to keep their pc clean. Probably a good reason not to have sex with them either!
Maybe this is a naive question, but why worry so much about "hackers" anymore after MS stops supporting XP? Hackers are there to hack (right? doesn't "hack" mean to try, try, try, try, try, BINGO! ?) And if it's malware that's you're worried about, isn't that what antivirus/antimalware software is for?
Also (tongue in cheek), what's the deference between a malware-ridden XP box and a Windows 8 box?
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
I'm pretty sure it was 8-bit PC XT software
I thought the 8086 CPU in the IBM PC XT was 16-bit. What makes you think it's 8-bit?
Enough to ensure it's at least beta by April.
Upgrade everyone on XP to ReactOS.
that project is in alpha. It is not suitable, stable or useful for running any real application, and won't be in the next five years.
People who are still using XP day-to-day are idiots and Microsoft shouldn't encourage them.
Really? People are idiots for not spending money on new equipment that adds precisely zero additional feature that they need? We should be forced to upgrade to Microsoft's latest software because not upgrading doesn't add to Microsoft's profits? My company uses XP on the majority of our computers and there is nothing whatsoever in Vista, Windows 7 or Windows 8 that is necessary for us. So we're idiots for not spending money needlessly? Thank $diety we don't let you make our purchasing decisions.
There is almost no scenario where continuing to use XP as your main desktop makes sense
Except for the millions of people whose actual computing needs are perfectly adequately filled by XP.
If Vista had been more like Windows 7
This is such bullshit! In the alternative universe where Windows 7 was ready on the day Vista came out, software drivers for W7 would have been as unavailable as they were for Vista. All sorts of software that required users to have full admin permissions would have been broken by W7 UAC as it was by Vista's UAC. All PCs sold with 512MB or 1GB RAM would have still be slow compared to XP.
Only 1 or 2 years down the line when OEMs had caught up and released proper drivers, when PCs were being sold with 2GB+ RAM and when people learned to separate normal from admin users did Windows Vista/7/8 become less of a nuisance. It had very little to do with Windows 7 being so awesome.
I don't think that Microsoft actually considers these people "customers."
And consider why that might be. My company uses XP on most of the computers in the office. Microsoft has provided not provided a single new feature in Vista, Windows 7 or Windows 8 that we actually need or want. Why would we spend money on products that do not add value?
All of Microsoft's customers should have followed its exhortations over the last five years to spend a few bucks and upgrade dump their now-13-year-old OS.
Again, why? They aren't providing anything new to us so why should we spend money on their new products?
Or better yet, use Windows 256 bit or 512 for ultimate security.
When Windows XP was released, it was VERY buggy. It wasn't until Service Pack 2 that some of the major bugs were fixed. For example, the first version and the Service Pack 1 version of Windows XP had serious problems with USB connections.
Now, after hundreds of fixes, Windows XP has become what it should have been when it was first released. Is Microsoft claiming Windows XP is STILL buggy? Is Microsoft claiming that, after all these years, there are still extremely serious vulnerabilities in Windows XP?
If so, think of the problems people have had with Windows Vista and Windows 8. Would it be reasonable to expect that Microsoft has released only carefully written software in Windows 8.1, after it has, in my opinion, habitually released sloppy, bug-ridden software during the entire history of the company? (The first Microsoft product, Microsoft Basic computer language, was seriously buggy and came with a poorly written manual.)
Would moving to Windows 8 merely expose your family or your staff to a set of new problems? Will Microsoft, in a few years, say Windows 8 is too buggy to support any longer, and try to convince people to upgrade to something else? In the past, that's how Microsoft has made money, by convincing people to pay for a new version of Windows. Not by paying an upgrade price, but by paying for what Microsoft calls an entirely new version, even though there may be minimal important changes
Vulnerabilities and frequent security updates are part of Microsoft's marketing plans.
Oh, but wait...they said they built Vista and Win 7 (not sure about Win 8) from the ground up. So does this mean they lied or are stupid enough to keep programming the same way for each operating system. Hmmm...I would venture a strong guess they lied AND just want you to pay for upgrades. People are getting so sick of this mess from MS, it's no wonder they're running to other operating systems.
"you can't buy a new computer with Windows 7"
Not true, most businesses are moving from XP to 7. If you look at non consumer sells channel buying a new PC with Windows 7 is not a problem.
Pro versions of Windows 8 have downgrade rights. Pay the cash.
That said, my very non-technical sister has a dell consumer credit card. Dell would not sell her a business PC with 7 (the salesman tried), so she was forced to buy 8. She loves it.
Incorrect. They released an operating system that greatly drove up expensive hardware upgrades due to storage space needed and this stupid thing nobody cared about called Aero. They also released an operating system without ensuring proper driver support buy-in from other companies, many of whom they screwed over and over throughout the years. Vista was utter crap from start to finish and the overall reviews (both user and professional) prove that.
"Windows 7... XP mode"
Is XP mode free of bugs? Will it get fixes for vulnerabilities?
If Microsoft can supply and fix XP mode, why not fix Windows XP?
Not an idiot, but being an idiot is way better than being an offensive git.
I'm still using Windows 2000. No problems. Just zips along, and does what I need a computer to do.
Get on with the new world. In fact, do it on a Mac & switch between or run XP, Win7, etc simultaneously. Get real.
I've got a couple 70-something members in my family who are running XP laptops just to run a web browser: email and the basics. Having moved to Linux myself and being the family computer guy, I'm wanting to switch these two laptops to some lightweight flavor of Linux that will work for them and require little or no support from me. I've tried many different lightweight distros in the past year, but I thought I'd ask here for input from any of you who have actually done what I'm about to do.
Requirements:
- fast and light: will run fine on a Thinkpad T41 (which doesn't support PAE kernel)
- Windows-like interface (I'm thinking LXDE, definitely not Unity)
- easy to use Wi-Fi manager (some of the Wi-Fi managers in lightweight Linux distros are way too technical for a novice)
- once a year if any on-site maintenance (remote maintenance is fine if necessary)
- auto updates in background but with very low chance of system breaking with an update (maybe no auto updates is better?)
- ACPI support (at least lid closed = suspend)
- printer support
Chromium OS seems like a good option, and it will run on one laptop (Thinkpad T61) but I'm pretty sure it uses a PAE kernel, ruling out the T41. I've been looking at Lubuntu, Peppermint OS, Porteus, Slax, Puppy Linux. All seem like viable options with a 30-minute test drive, but this is where I'm seeking feedback: on how some of these distros might be good or bad choices in the long-term, especially given that I won't be able to be physically present if something goes wrong.
www.gaiageek.com
There is a French Company that is going to offer security support for WinXP. From ZD Net, "One company that's already thrown its hat into the ring to provide Windows XP support after Microsoft's deadline of 8 April 2014 is Arkoon, working with its north and south America distributor Matrix Global Partners." Microsoft also fooers "Custom Support" but it's pretty pricey.
I wonder if it's a settings issue (which would make it PEBKAC) but on my computer Windows 8 is more responsive than the latest version of Linux Mint I tried was (fairly sure it was version 14). The much-hated start screen appears instantly after pressing the super key, while there's a tiny but still noticeable delay until the Cinnamon start menu appears. Firefox also runs smoother on Windows than Linux in my experience.
There are many valid complaints to be made of Windows 8, but responsiveness is not one of its issues.
Almost 3,000 results at Amazon for New Windows 7 Desktops at the moment...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_n_condition-type_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565098%2Ck%3Awindows+7%2Cp_n_operating_system_browse-bin%3A2287320011%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224371011&keywords=windows+7&ie=UTF8&qid=1387734401&rnid=2224369011
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Microsoft should transition all those XP users to a linux distro made to look and behave more like Windows. If Windows really is better then those customers will come back when they buy a new machine. In the mean time, Microsoft will have off loaded maintenance onto open source and freed itself to innovate. No doubt they will do something else, that will turn out to be stupid.
You know it can be fixed in seconds right? http://sourceforge.net/projects/wgaremover/
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
A 90+ year old family member uses XP. We've tried to get her on Win 7, but she's flummoxed by the UI.
Why not skin a modern, supported OS with a comfortable skin that looks, feels, and works like what an elderly user is used to?
An emulator on MS-DOS, 32-bit Windows, 64-bit Windows, Linux, or any other platform starts with a bytecode interpreter that reads an opcode from the emulated machine's ROM or RAM and uses a 256-entry lookup table to find what to do on each cycle. Then it simulates what the other components (video and audio chips, input devices, etc.) do on each cycle. Sometimes the components are only simulated approximately if an emulator is designed for limited hardware, such as an old 486 PC, a Game Boy Advance, or an entry-level smartphone. In your Atari 2600 emulator, there'd be a 6502 interpreter, TIA (video and audio), and RIOT (for joysticks). In an NES emulator, there'd be a 6502 interpreter with BCD mode removed, APU (audio on the 6502 die), PPU (video), and a pair of bit-banged SPI ports for joysticks.
At work we set up a new Dell box that came with 8 and a touchscreen. Right off the bat it wants to calibrate the screen. Ok it says to move the mouse to the upper right corner. Except they mean to use your finger to move the cursor, you never touch the mouse. What the fuck...? Everyone agrees 8 is great on a phone or tablet but on a desktop its a crippled ugly mess. People used to call XP the Fisher Price interface. 8 looks like it was designed using ASCII graphic blocks.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 all have vastly BETTER back-doors coded by Microsoft at the behest of the NSA- and the exploits possible for these versions of NT are vastly worse than anything you can imagine for XP.
The advantage of XP is that the user is ALWAYS aware that security is her/his constant concern, and so the informed user uses sensible, sustainable security practices. A good firewall eliminates most issues, if the system is not in use by complete morons.
Windows Vista, onwards, on the other hand, is built from the ground up to allow almost infinite possibilities in intelligence service hacking. Did you know that on Vista, 7, 8, the OS is specifically built to allow any firewall to be invisibly bypassed, and any 'virus' scanner rendered ineffective? Modern versions of Windows do NOT rely on bad programming methods as good vectors of attack, but build 'hidden' features into the OS for the use of intelligence services.
Sooner or later, the usual suspects in 'intelligence' departments in Israel will leak these details to their criminal associates working out of nations like the Ukraine, and a new generation of terrifying malware will hit PC computers with recent versions of Windows.
Anyway, many current XP users are hoping that Google will, in 2014, pull its thumb from its ass and release the Desktop version of Android, so we can begin to say "goodbye" to Wintel forever. While Google and Microsoft are as evil as you can possibly be, for practical computer users, all that matters at an OS level is getting a good product aimed at actual power-users who want access to something both universal and sane- not some knuckle-dragging high-fashion crap that appeals to people whose lips move as they speak, like Windows 8. Mainstream Linux is a total joke with the dysfunctional losers who fight to make it as marginal as possible.
SteamOS and Android are the only current OS projects that look to provide a conceptual replacement for XP.
Because solutions from other providers cause even more problems than those from Microsoft. For example, LibreOffice Calc and Impress have trouble interoperating with Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint software used by other organizations with which your organization does business. It gets worse with alternatives to Microsoft Access, which cannot even start to run off-the-shelf ERP and accounting programs written in VBA for Access, such as Stone Edge.
> ....says Tim Rains, the director of Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing group.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's his job to say that, whether it's true or not. Windows 8 needs a shot in the arm, and upgrades from a bunch of panicked XP users is literally money in the bank.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Stick to plan and put millions of customers at risk
People who bought a product once. They've been told their support will end. They've been told it will become less secure (if they understand what that means). It's not Microsoft's problem any more.
It would be better if commercial software was sold with a ticking clock built in. After "X" number of years (or months for Apple), the product just stops. Wont boot, won't run. No getarounds, hacks or fixes - just dies. Obviously there will need to be a totally "in your face" way of reminding customers that this will happen and for the advertising to be absolutely unequivocal before the product is purchased, but you don't expect a packet of cereal to last forever, why should you expect software to, either?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
If you're talking about security, where there are independent third parties aggressively undermining the stability of your "table" at all times, it's probably better to use a more security-minded analogy. How about locks. Lets say you buy a popular high-end lock for your front door, and a while later the burglar community finds a weakness in the design that lets it be picked easily. Is the lock maker required to upgrade your lock to something more secure on their own dime? Continuously? For more than 12 years? Or at some point should they be allowed to say "Enough! We make newer, better locks now. Buy one of those if you want to keep getting free upgrades." ?
>What are the chances someone who doesn't want to move from Windows to Windows is going to move all the way to some extrasolar weirdness?
Better than you might think I suspect. For most people still using XP I suspect it boils down to cost. Either the cost of the upgrade itself, or the cost of replacing hardware and/or software that won't work with newer versions. Or just why should they replace something that's working fine? I commonly tell people who come to be with a seriously borked computer that they have three options if they want me to fix it:
1) I can try, but it may take hours and there's no guarantee I'll be successful.
2) I can reinstall Windows from scratch if you have the restore disc or an upgrade
3) or (and this is the cheapest option) I could install this completely free alternative operating system that I just booted off my USB stick to confirm that all your hardware works (here, try it out). It will let you do all the basic internet stuff just like Windows, while being much more resistant to viruses and other malware. I can even leave Windows in place so that you can easily switch back and if you change your mind, or just want to keep it limping along for that one Windows-only program you just have to use. Why is it free? Well have you ever heard of Linux? No? Well basically...
I was actually rather surprised at how popular (3) was, and how many people later made a point of expressing their satisfaction with the change.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
If Vista had been more like Windows 7
This is such bullshit! In the alternative universe where Windows 7 was ready on the day Vista came out, software drivers for W7 would have been as unavailable as they were for Vista. All sorts of software that required users to have full admin permissions would have been broken by W7 UAC as it was by Vista's UAC. All PCs sold with 512MB or 1GB RAM would have still be slow compared to XP.
Only 1 or 2 years down the line when OEMs had caught up and released proper drivers, when PCs were being sold with 2GB+ RAM and when people learned to separate normal from admin users did Windows Vista/7/8 become less of a nuisance. It had very little to do with Windows 7 being so awesome.
Um, except, Win7 has a Windows XP compatibility mode. When I upgraded from XP to 7, everything worked. Some things in compatibility, some native. With the single exception of an old scanner that wouldn't work in Vista either. (I gave the scanner to my daughter, who still runs XP.)
As far as drivers are concerned, I think Vista was Microsoft's first indication that their hold on the industry was starting to slip.
Vista had more problems than just drivers. Even simple operations like file transfers were buggered up. They did eventually fix it, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Windows 7 isn't awesome. It's an incremental improvement over XP and what Vista should have been. Especially considering the development time.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The problem is that you can't upgrade to Windows 7 anymore.
I wish I had mod points left, so instead I'll comment.
I don't know where you get your information, but it's wrong. You can downgrade to Win7 if you bought a Win8 machine with your Win8 license code (just get a copy of an OEM Win7 disc). You can also still buy Win7 OEM from stores.
Parent's post should have been modded up insightful, because it's FUD.
You info about Netbooks is pretty obsolete. I bought an Acer Aspire One at Radio Shack(!!) last year. I think it qualifies as a NetBook because it's the same form factor and was only $300. It sports a 64 bit Dual-Core AMD Processor (slow at 1GHz, but fairly capable) and came with a 4GB SIMM installed. I found an unsupported post on a forum for upgrading it to 8GB so now it even runs XP with Virtual Box. It has native Windows 7. It also has NetBSD in the VM.
The old NetBooks had the 1GB RAM limit that Microsoft imposed, but that went away at some point.
In what sense are these people "customers"? They haven't bought a copy of Windows in six years, and let's be honest most of them never bought it in the first place. Microsoft doesn't have to care if they're mad.
Also, the reason given for their failure to switch, the disaster that was Vista, is idiotic. Windows 7 was a perfectly adequate OS -- and I say that as a Mac/Linux guy. They've had seven years to get over their grief and move on to 7, or switch to Mac or Linux.
The only reason for sticking with XP that I have any sympathy for is that your business is dependent on old hardware that doesn't support a modern OS. But once again, if your third-party vendor hasn't released a driver or software update in seven years, you're a moron for continuing to rely on them.
Worked in IT for 15 years now, have advanced CS degrees and many people consider me an expert in OS's, unix, networking etc. ( i dont - i just consider myself competent). When people like you speak rubbish like this it annoys me. XP was a fine OS and was much simpler and lighter than today's platforms from Microsoft. I am sure for many people, it serves as a highly reliable and familiar tool for their specific use. Who's the idiot, one who gets their job done everyday with the tools they have at hand, maximizing their time, or the guy constantly looking for the next shiny thing, that not only doesn't accomplish the task any better, but interferes? Get a clue noob. And dont give me a security bs - there are many ways to mitigate security threats, its not just the OS, its how you use it and the environment its in.
Age doesnt increase the attack surface of a computer, maintenance and the environment does. Today's attack vector is no longer scanning and throwing a malicious packet at tcp/139. its the crap users bring on themselves browsing bullshit sites, fake keygens, actually reading spam etc. I would argue that the person running XP has less opportunities to get infected with less supported client-side applications supported today, less targeted application versions, and also the mindset of maintaining a system that long is likely not at the same level of ignorance as one who treats their computer as a disposable dumpster of one use apps.
So how 'bout Microsoft offering, i.e. selling for coin, a 32-bit in-place upgrade OS that works on 512M? Nah, fuggetabout!
So you can call the great masses of XP users rubes, idiots, and reservoirs of software infection. But guess what, there are rubes, idiots, and people not practicing good tech sanitation. But this will be like the people who won't vaccinate their kids. It isn't just their kids at risk, it is your kids, and maybe even you for getting chicken pox as a 50-year old.
So idiot, idiot, idiot, let's shame people, but what is this going to do? Is Congress going to pass a Computer Protection and Affordable System Patch (CPASP) law? Provide subidies to persons too poor to upgrade. Provide free computers to persons qualifying for Medicaid?
Your company doesn’t consider security updates necessary?
Security updates are not features. While (unfortunately) necessary they are fundamentally a correction of a defect in their product. You are looking at it backwards. What you are saying is that I'm supposed to pay endlessly for Microsoft for their defective product.
Now in realistic terms if they wanted to charge a modest (emphasis on modest) fee for security updates to those who want to keep XP in place after a decade of use, I don't really have a problem with that. But I do have a problem with a pointless upgrade treadmill that gives me no additional capabilities for my needs over what I already have.
In my experience the majority are small businesses that only use the computer as a tool to run specific applications. I get sucked into upgrading local businesses all the time; they dont care about Windows versions; they care if their shit is slow. The last thing they want to do is invest money in a computer or have to learn something new.
I find it funny that you target people on DSL modems. You think you are hot shit on your cable modem or FIOS?? You are the same class of hyperconsumer as the computer-illiterate mom sitting on her DSL. The only difference is you have more disposable income and your a douchebag. Both of you want the same things and same shiny toys, the mom on DSL has constraint.
Yeah, because a botnet operator really is interested in bitmining from a Pentium 3. Wow the money he will rake in, he may be able to get a cup of coffee after a few thousand nodes mine for a few weeks.
All you security wannabe guys need to shut the f up. The bare OS is not the only factor here. You guys act like judgement day is approaching, everyone with XP is going to rip out their NAT router and go surfing on fake porn sites and download fake keygens all day long. Give me a fucking break. Get a clue about security and you will realize how small your knowledge really is. Better yet put up a good proxy + wireshark in your dmz and watch all the shit you leak before chiming in on how the internet is doomed and we must all eradicate the evil XP'ers.
Microsoft business model was selling crapware, computer repair business model is also going away!
No, people are idiots for believing that security isn't a feature that is needed.
No one is arguing that security isn't necessary. HOWEVER, security updates are a correction of a defect in the product. They are necessary in the same sense that insurance is necessary. Security updates could be provided for XP by Microsoft for a (reasonable) fee but that is not an option Microsoft has put on the table. There is no technological reason why I need to "upgrade" to Windows 8.
People are also idiots for believing that a for profit company (like Microsoft) is obligated to provide free updates to a product forever.
Microsoft can do whatever they want. However what they are accomplishing isn't to make me want to upgrade to their latest products. If anything it makes me want to use their systems less. I can get linux security updates for free so Microsoft needs to add more value if they want my continued business. They don't have to make security updates free but that isn't what they chose to do. They want me to buy an entirely new product with new and different defects, additional hardware, software migration and training costs. This instead of merely offering to continue security updates for a nominal fee for the system I already have which I already know works. I'm guessing you've never run a business because only an idiot spends money to change something that is working just fine when the change is not actually necessary.
You appear to be saying that there is nothing in post-XP versions of Windows that is necessary for your company.
That is correct. There is no new feature in any more recent version of Windows that will add to the bottom line of my company. Other companies situations may be different but I do know for a fact that thousands of companies and individuals are in the same situation as I am.
Do you really believe that security of your systems is not necessary?
Wrong question. Of course security is necessary but security updates are nothing more than corrections of a product defect. Security is nothing more than a cost to me. It is like insurance - necessary but it does not ever add a penny to the bottom line. I have zero interest in throwing out a working production system just because it does not add to Microsoft's bottom line.
Do you really believe that Microsoft should spend the money (in either direct or opportunity costs) to provide those updates to you for free forever?
I never said anything about how they should provide updates or whether they should charge for them. Frankly if Microsoft were to charge a modest fee (and I do mean modest) to continue security updates for XP, I'd consider paying it. I have very good reasons why our company still uses XP based machines, not the least of which is that we have some critical software that CANNOT be ported. (not my fault - some idiot before me bought it) While I will fix that in due time, it isn't going to happen in the next 6 months and the expense is considerably larger than a new PC with Windows 8 on it.
What if the Consultant hardcoded to only work on windows xp...
Unity isn't a tablet UI; the desktop and phone versions are separate UIs with a few similarities, that are supposed to share the same codebase at some point in the future. Desktop Unity would probably not be that great on a tablet as is actually significantly more keyboard oriented than other DEs, with the obvious exception of tiling WMs such as XMonad.
http://scherbius2014.de/EndeDerViren.html
Yeah, blatant marketing myself. But for a good purpose, I would say.
and the xfce Desktop manager. Does not use much resources.
http://scherbius2014.de/EndeDerViren.html
Hey, if it's so darned obsolete, how about donating it to the world as open source? I'll help take care of it, and keep it alive for another 10 years!
Whoop de doo.
01/01/01
WHAT! Only 13 years? Aren't people still running OS/360 code after lots longer?
New versions of windows have less features than XP. For example, you could easily access your webcam from the explorer with no additional software to install for that.
Then again, I HATE ribbon which is implemented almost everywhere.
Computers are man-made things. They could support any OS for 50 years if they want. Example: Linux makes rolling updates, stuff made in 1991 could (and some is) supported in 2013 and beyond. The whole "upgrade or fall victim" ideas is a cash grab. People have been warning microsoft users about this for *years*. Its exactly like when users of proprietary software try to store information that needs to be retrieved 50 years or more into the future (real estate records, laws, health records, etc). Some use it anyway because of bad judgement, then cry about it later. First, the users need to change to non-lock-in software that insists on upgrades every 3-5 years. If they refuse, then tell them to suffer in their stupidity.
Networking on Win7 is a fucking pain in the ass. What the hell is a homegroup and why does anyone care?
We upgraded our DSL router to the new whizzybang UVerse DSL router and every single Win7 box had a nervous breakdown and shut off their networking COMPLETELY. Had to manually reconfigure dozens of boxes.
MS is run by idiots. I want my XP back, at least the networking was rational.
People who are compute illiterate deal with systems all the time that require upgrades. For example milk and eggs go bad after a while. In the 1990s forced upgrades were an expected part of the expense of owning computers. Microsoft can reintroduce the concept and make it a norm, "this will break in a few years" isn't too hard to understand.
"Also, you can't buy a new computer with Windows 7"
Very much NOT true. Where I work we buy plenty of Dell computers with Win7 all the time. Just placed another large order this past Friday in fact.
They've had years of advanced notice. Do something or don't do something. But stop whining about it.
I've still got a couple of people on XP that have a wide variety of applications which either no longer work on Win7 or work differently (not better) on Win7. On a fairly recent machine with an SSD you can get very good performance out of WinXP.
When they hit the point where memory limits them forcing a change to win7 they are going to have to change a lot of their workflows, will have to buy a long list of applications all over again and will have to select new software to do the tasks their current stuff does on XP.
Virtual machines have a few drawbacks especially when you run up against software that needs those evil dongle things before it will run
...you haven't worked support.
You forgot electro-shock, tranquilizer darts and burning bamboo under the fingernails.
To all of you who claim that you can't replace XP cause of some old 3rd party software..
unlike the slashmorons who see fit to tell you how to run your affairs, I accept your statements.
However, AT some point, maybe in the next 10 years, won't you have to replace XP ?
What then ?
do you say, why worry about problems that occur after I retire, or I've got so much to do, extra problems are not even looked at ?
But , sometime soon, you will have to replace XP
what then ?
>Is Microsoft claiming that, after all these years, there are still extremely serious vulnerabilities in Windows XP?
Yes, because the definition of secure has radically changed in the past 10 years. See ALSR
>Will Microsoft, in a few years, say Windows 8 is too buggy to support any longer, and try to convince people to upgrade to something else? I
No, even Microsoft realizes the gig is up and is looking for an operating system 'rental' model.
>Would moving to Windows 8 merely expose your family or your staff to a set of new problems?
Yes, But it is the same with Linux, Apple, whatever else. Security is not a place you reach, it is a target that is carried on the backs of the attackers. If you think anyone sits around and engineers security holes (well other than the NSA), you don't know anything about the industry.
Not ALSR, I mean ASLR.
Um say what? I just ordered a new computer for gaming purposes pre-installed with Windows 7 Pro. You most certainly can find vendors out there who will ship windows 7 on a new PC.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
will msfn.org forum groups make patches for winXP in the future like they do with win98?
I really hope so, only time will tell, they are my heroes.
The problem is that you can't upgrade to Windows 7 anymore.
I wish I had mod points left, so instead I'll comment.
I don't know where you get your information, but it's wrong. You can downgrade to Win7 if you bought a Win8 machine with your Win8 license code (just get a copy of an OEM Win7 disc). You can also still buy Win7 OEM from stores.
Parent's post should have been modded up insightful, because it's FUD.
So you apparently don't understand the difference between an "upgrade" and a "downgrade"?
To the best of my knowledge, you could "upgrade" an existing XP install to Vista, but there is no "upgrade" from XP->Win7 other than a complete wipe/reinstall. How many average users (non-tech) that know how to backup all their user data to some external device (or network), wipe and reinstall an OS from scratch, and then restore all their data (as well as probably reinstalling all their software)?
Does iTunes for MS Windows actually run well now? Garbage seemed a pretty good description of it running on win7.
I bought a new shrinkwrapped copy of WinXP and installed it on new desktop hardware less than two years ago. Nobody needed to stockpile the thing years ago and if anybody did they were needlessly wasting money.
Please finish this sentence: "An OS without the applications I need is..."
The thing is, it's not a linux problem. It's (mostly) a GPL problem. The GPL is a poison pill for many commercial operations; it becomes problematic to utilize existing work and bootstrap commercial products. Well, that and the lack of a standard, unencumbered GUI. Which *is* perceived as a linux problem. You may have noticed that highly expandable and flexible applications like Apache under linux are in very wide use commercially. Reading the Apache license is also very interesting as compared to the GPL. Coincidence? Not as far as I can tell.
But, as linux users have told me many times, they don't want those nasty commercial types in there, using code and not giving back more code. And this is exactly what they got. So... :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
To get users to upgrade their systems to Windows 8, MS should run lots and lots of TV commercials featuring the beautiful, awesome Windows 8 splash screen.
As soon as people realize how breathtakingly beautiful the splash screen is, they'll run out to Best Buy or wherever and buy a Surface.
If that doesn't work, buy more TV commercials with tighter close-ups on the beautiful, beautiful, utterly awesome Windows 8 splash screen.
ASLR: The purpose of ASLR is to provide protection against vulnerabilities. The idea is to make it far more difficult to exploit those vulnerabilities. ASLR is always good to have.
However, if software has no vulnerabilities, then ASLR has no effect.
Software rental, rather than sale: Those who buy software are usually not prepared to fully understand the issue. So, software companies like Adobe are taking advantage of that ignorance, and renting software rather than selling it. For many users, that will make the software FAR more expensive. (Adobe's CS6 is the last for sale version, Adobe says.)
Software vulnerabilites: Software can be checked for vulnerabilities and fixed before the software is released. Microsoft doesn't do that intensely because vulnerabilities make more money for Microsoft, in my opinion.
this stupid thing nobody cared about called Aero.
Aero was eye candy and a very much needed update at a time when Windows UI was looking tremendously dated compared to OS X and a variety of Linux distros. If they had not made Aero, they would have had to make something else to replace the UI of the 90's.
Windows 7 is still available. You can still buy retail, retail upgrade and system builder copies of win7, you can also downgrade from OEM and volume license copies of windows 8 pro/ultimate/enterprise (IIRC for some silly reason you can't downgrade from retail or retail upgrade copies).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
One could argue that once XP becomes unsupported it won't be suitable, stable or useful for running any real application, and won't be in the next five years.
I work in technical support for an ISP. One of the things I must know, natch, is what OS they're using. In cases where it's XP, I will inform (or, as the case is sometimes, remind) them that Microsoft will be ending all support for their OS of choice, and that now is the time to upgrade. My one regret is that these users have waited so long, resulting in that they must now upgrade to Windows 8.1.
Well, OK, they can probably get a copy of Win 7 from Newegg or somesuch.
This sig no verb.
Can't buy a new Windows 7 computer anymore? Did you even bother to google before you let such an ignorant statement out into the world? Perhaps you are just trolling. They are everywhere.
http://www.dell.com/us/p/desktops.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&&dgc=IR&cid=263634&lid=4777229#!all-in-one-desktops&facets=228279~0~16692655,228279~0~14814752&p=1
Actually, while the driver argument is valid, Vista did have noticeable stability, compatibility, and performance issues that were addressed in Windows 7. Ditto for Windows 2008 server. Granted, these could have been addressed in service packs but that's not the way it went down. If you compare the two, fully patched at the time of release for Windows 7, Windows 7 performed better on the same hardware and with the same drivers than Vista.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
I agree, at least in part. I don't know about Vista being generally unstable, but I remember it felt slow. I remember that when XP was released, it was common for PCs to have 256MB or less of RAM. When people stopped moaning about how bloated XP was, it was because they already had replaced their PCs of 2000/01 with something that had 1 or 2GB or RAM, as well as CPUs and graphics cards that were much better. SATA interfaces for their HDD also pushed the performance up considerably. With XP "surviving" 1 or 2 hardware upgrades, it's only natural that it felt super-fast.
With whatever optimisation and bug fixing they did at MS, W7 was indeed faster than Vista. However, the perceived performance gains were certainly affected by having more RAM, which had become significantly cheaper. I'd be surprised to hear about people buying computers in 2009 that had W7 running on 1GB (or less).
That’s lovely FUD. What you meant to say is more like, “It’s problematic for companies to steal others’ work to create derivative commercial closed source works from freely available open source.” It’s not “problematic” to bootstrap commercial projects from GPL source. It’s denied by design because the original authors (who gave you their work for free) didn’t want you to do that. It’s really a shame that you can’t take something you didn’t pay anything for any turn around and charge other people money for it. Give me a minute to mop up the river of tears I’m crying for these companies.
There’s nothing the least bit problematic about using Linux as a platform to build closed source solutions. Nor is there a problem with using open source packages as building blocks in what will ultimately be a commercial solution. You need to release source for your changes to GPL projects, but boo hoo.
If you want to keep your source closed, that’s easy. Don’t use someone else’s open source project as a source code starting point. That still doesn’t bar you from using open source projects to help you deliver a final product. Just don’t link to them. It’s really not that hard.
I’ll grant that this gets somewhat more difficult with GPL-3 or the Affero variations, but this started out as a FUD fest about Linux which is plain-old GPL-2, so none of those issues apply.
What if somebody were to develop an FOSS operating system that's free to download, will be supported for indefinite years to come and runs most XP software or equivalent applications? That'd be great! Oh, yeah, that's Linux.
I thought of that weeks ago and patented it so Microsoft will have to come begging TO ME. MWA HA HA HA HA I'm Rich, I'm Rich, I'm finally Filthy Rich!!! BOW BEFORE ZOD.
most the windows xp systems left in the world today are in china, and were pirated installations to begin with. let them get hacked. let them get exploited. small price to pay for up to 12 years of use of windows, dont you think? let them serve up malware and spew forth spam. let the chinese national 'intranet' and great firewall get so over-burdened with traffic they slows to a crawl or worse.. like comcast cable internet on a good day. let the chinese take the rap for the millions of additional botnet members and the problems they might cause worldwide if their government doesnt block that traffic at their borders and finally crack down on software piracy so commonplace in that country. i dont care. big fucking deal. not my problem now. wont be my problem after april 8th.
that said, we do have five of 8 systems here still running windows xp. two will remain in use but offline (hardware or software incompatibilities prevent upgrade) and will not be replaced; two are being replaced (one new system bought at well below wholesale cost on a closeout, one used system that was given to us); and the last will sold or upgraded to its old free vista upgrade... so the microsoft money grab via planned obsolescence of windows xp nets them, from all five of our systems they're putting to pasture, a grand total of about 20-25 dollars (from the one new system's oem for its windows license). all five of these are functional, productive systems that microsoft is obsoleting. we would keep using them as is til they break if not for microsoft eol of xp. it isnt our fault the hardware outlasted the software. here is a thought, maybe pc and component manufacturers could cheapen their products so they last only 2-3 years instead of 10-15+? o wait, dont they do that now? good. won't have this problem in 2017, 2020, or 2023 then. whew. dodged a bullet there.
You paid 30k for software that only works on XP a year ago?
I am sympathetic to all those with legacy issues. I just clobbered an XP install and replaced it with Knoppix 7.2, Linux, but I am not still running Visucalc, although I did download the zip to see if it will run on DOSemu on Ubuntu. I'll bet it does.
Given with potential security problems with unpatched XP, if M$ decides to drop support, is like running on square wheels, If you run fast enough, you may not notice the rough ride, unless you slow down. It was been my experience that the latest Linux releases will tun on configurations that are too small for later releases of Windows. I actually run Knoppix 7.2 in 1/4 Gb on a vintage 2000 system that had been running Win2k. Yes, I had swap areas, but it worked without a hitch and reasonably fast. I think the processor was Celaron.
Of Course, people are going to have issues with finding drivers for really old hardware, and maybe they are afraid to chance it on new drivers, but I have run devices of vintage 2000 on recent Linux with generic drivers, and if you are resourceful you can figure out how to wrote a river for that HW that absolutely has to be supported. That sounds like an opportunity for Opern Source advocates, to support legacy hardware with Linux drivers. Sounds to me that M$ is creating opportunities for Linux device driver writers to support legacy hardware, if it isn't already supported. I guess that also applies to software that needs Wine or DOSemu support.
This.
Maybe I had new enough hardware that I didn't have driver issues. But I didn't have any issues with Vista. I grant you that Win7 is a tad more refined. But, overall, not really much different.
Just a fine point of detail, here: Windows 8 Pro has the downgrade option to Windows 7 Professional/Ultimate. Core edition has no downgrade rights. So, chances are, the machine you're purchasing will not be downgradable. That said, there are several systems (Lenovo in particular) which are downgraded out of the box. As you note, Windows 7 is also available for purchase as well, although this will probably be eliminated as Microsoft's SOP is to keep the last-gen OS around as long as it's only 1 generation behind. Once Windows 8.2 or 9 or whatever its name will be comes out, 7 will vanish from the regular channels.
Goddammit just when I get my first +5 the Beta rolls out and kills everything
XP will still run applications and be used
gosgog:
Go to Linux/Ubunto OSes, then you won't have to spend a ton, Donation is up to you, & if you can't donate its all Free anyway, including updates & its all better, faster, generally Virus & Malware free, but they have good anti-that stuff & for Free.
Open source XP
Casteism
Lets see... Microsoft writes a buggy, insecure operating system, then says we should update because the newer buggy, insecure system is better, rinse and repeat. I think Windows 7 wasn't horrible, but then Windows 8 came along and caused me much nausea. I used Windows 8 for four months full time, and after that, I still don't feel in control of the machine. Simply put, I hate "gesture computing". Were there problems so dire with 7 that it needed to be replaced? What an abortion 8 is. But will the day come that Microsoft says no more support for 7 and you MUST move to 8 now? Aren't we tired yet of being wagged around by these people?
I have two good reasons not to upgrade from XP. One is a desktop, the other is a laptop. Both run flawlessly.
# 1 - Spent tons of time and money on learning XP to expert levels. Most of that investment in me goes out the window learning the new ins and outs of 7 or 8. Besides, MSFT track record with releasing garbage for their corporate well being (see: Vista) and not that of the end user is well documented.
# 2 - I find the new MS Office applications, especially Word and Excel, difficult and annoying to use. It's like two groups of retarded monkeys doing two different things, ran in opposite directions and somebody threw icing on a pile of shit and released it. ribbons? Thanks but no thanks. keep it. I'll stick with Office 2000 until they get back to a logical way to create and edit a document.
McKesson, I presume is what the previous AC intended to say.
I realize that you are probably looking for a job, but small companies using specialized custom software can't afford to upgrade it in times like this. It's not a case of buying a new copy of Word or Excel, these programs take 5 years and 5 million dollars to build new. And thats if they can find a programmer that can do it -at all-.
Loosing the use of the existing software may very possibly cause the company to go out of business. That is not a choice.
And for machine-control apps there is a solution to lack of security updates. Disconnect it from the internet !
No one seems to be mentioning the elephant in the room, as in Windows 2003.
I can think of tens of thousands of servers running Windows 2003 yet that will fall under the same dark cloud. (Hell some accounts I work on have W2K servers they can not get rid of due to legacy apps that will run on nothing else.
I will be interested to see what happens in the near future with the dropping of support for 2003 as well.
--I'm willing to bet you can still buy a new PC with Win7 - you prolly have to go to a local mom-n-pop shop to do it, though. Anyone willing to test this?
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== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
They will only see it as an argument for you to upgrade.
Microsoft have snookered us! We do not want to upgrade to Windows 8. So we have to migrate to another OS entirely. There is no way that the annoyingness of Windows 8 is outweighed by the annoyingness of learning a new OS. PLEASE MICROSOFT MAKE WINDOWS 9 NOW AND MAKE IT JUST LIKE WINDOWS 7 BUT A BIT BETTER NOT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!!
Windows XP was released at the Zenith for hardware quality in some respects (think 4:3 screens, thinkpad keyboards). Microsoft forcing people to buy a computer is forcing people to downgrade their computer. It aint gonna happen!!
If they were serious about asking people to upgrade from XP, they wouldn't be asking $90-$130 for a retail copy of Windows 7, the last Microsoft Operating System that worked ...
Good idea, it is already available. While prices are negotiated company by company, rumour has it a floor amount of $200,00 per year and $200 per device plus you have to pay for Software Assurance.
So basically your prices are off by a little bit, but they sure to provide Custom Support.
Time to change to a free operating system and thus prevent being locked-in by monopolists.
(Please do not mention the argument of hardwaredrivers! That's sooo 2005. Oeps...sorry, it became valid again with Win7)