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You Might Rent Features & Options On Cars In the Future
cartechboy writes "These days, you go to a car dealership and you buy a car. If you want seat heaters, you might need to option for the cold weather package from the factory. Want the high-end stereo? You'll be likely be opting for some technology package which bundles in navigation. While some options are a la carte, most are bundled, and even when they are a la carte, they aren't cheap. What if in the future you could buy a car and unlock options later? Say the car came from the factory with heated seats, but you didn't pay for them. But later on, say in the middle of the freezing winter, you suddenly want them. What if you could simply pay a monthly fee during the winter months to have those heated seats work? Whether this model would benefit the consumer, the automakers, or both is yet to be seen. But automakers such as MINI are already talking about this type of a future. Is this the right road to be headed down, or are consumers going to just get screwed in the long run?"
FUCK, THAT, SHIT!
Want to use your over-the-air antenna? Enter special code from the internet. Why wouldn't they do it with cars too?
It could be a way for the automakers to get something from the millions of people who, like me, will never buy a new car.
Yes.
The big winners will be the people who sell crack codes on the black market for just under MSRP. Because automakers' coders are no smarter than any other industries' engineers.
.nosig
Please type in your PIN to activate anti-lock brakes.
Consumers will buy another brand without these annoyances
If you want me to haul around your dead weight, I'm going to charge you freight for that. This is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a while. Seems like everybody wants to be Apple. A car with crippled features on it deserves to be driven right into the wall around your garden.
Or to put it more succinctly, fuck whoever came up with this idea. There really is no better way to put it.
If this happens I will be hacking the shit out of my car.
I'm sorry. Not interested. I don't want to waste fuel carrying around equipment I don't need, much of it will be reporting back on my driving habits, listening habits, and shopping habits. I deliberately picked my car to have as little cruft in it as possible with only the features I wanted. Even that was a huge pain nowadays.
If you buy the car, you OWN the car and everything in it right? if you own those heated seats, its not exactly piracy if you enable them. How would they stop that?
And you should feel bad.
Of course this is just a way of screwing people over.
...always prove to be more expensive than an outright purchase. In addition, why include something you don't use and then have to pay the gas to lug it around? No thanks.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
ugh...I hate this
everywhere you look today, people want to make you pay a monthly fee for something that used to be free...or make you pay separately for something that used to be included in the main price but not lower the main price & call it 'al la carte'
it's marketing idiots who spend their work days trying to make products with **LESS** features
Thank you Dave Raggett
Well, duh. The manufactures aren't going to screw themselves.
> or are consumers going to just get screwed in the long run?" Yes is my first thought on that one.
In that scenario. Its retarded to include them with no guarantee of payback on them. You'll just wind up paying for those options int he base price of the car instead of as an option, and then paying for them a second time to "unlock" them. Not to mention how could they possibly stop someone from hacking and unlocking them themselves? In this day an age putting in locked extras is ridiculous as more and more of the population becomes tech-savvy enough to follow directions from a website. (phone ROMs anyone?)
This is a patently stupid idea from every angle except the fucking customers out of yet more money angle.
Sheesh, hey, do you wanna buy this lovely stretch of swampland I have, its ideally located in the middle of the Sahara Desert, so with all that water you're bound to have a lot of traffic coming your way. I'll sell it to you real cheap cause you look like a trustworthy bloke...
"Yeah...no...that's not it..."
This could potentially make sense since an automaker could then make every single car exactly the same from a mechanical perspective. They could gain some manufacturing and supply chain efficiency there. I think the question is whether or not that gain in efficiency can justify the additional component costs that will have to ship with every car.
As long as the hardware isn't too expensive it's often already in the car. Cruise control and steering wheel controls are in the car -- they just need to pop the plate or put on a deluxe stalk. These "heater elements put into all seats" would simply be another cost savings measure vs. manufacturing efficiency.
I can't imagine renting, so to speak, butt heaters only during winter could possibly be cheaper. It soulds more like a mathematical cover story for a quasi-loan where they simply charge poorer people a lot more over the long run because they can't afford the option up front.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
This could, in theory, work out if producing a single model with all the features saves money over manufacturing every permutation of radio/seats/trim/etc. The high-end would cost less, while still allowing more spartan options for those who want to save money.
In practice, I suspect it's a way to jack up the cost of new vehicles and turn every "sale" into a rental. Not sure if this will help or hurt dealerships--if all the options are already in the car, how will the middlemen get their cut of the value-adds?
DATABASE WOW WOW
You'd have to bake AuthN/AuthZ into the microcontrollers for the individual features. Otherwise, anyone could wire their own console button to heat their fucking seats.
Why would we want to encourage the spending of human capital and other resources necessary to implement this?
What if I could "unlock" my heated seats? Seriously?
I assume it won't affect my gas milage or increase the base price of my car?
what a misplaced idea
how about just make the car work.
With the Tesla model S the supercharger feature is optional with the 60KWh battery and can be enabled at any time by an over-the-air update but is a $2,000 feature, presumably to help offset the cost of electricity and building out the Supercharger network. The hardware is installed in every car.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
. . . to the YouTube videos showing how to hack these features.
What I want to know is why there are no heated steering wheels? My hands get damn cold.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
For software, the marginal cost of distributing the extra features disabled is pretty close to zero. It's all just bits being copied.
For a car, the car maker is still paying for the seat heaters, still paying factory workers to install those heaters, but not always being paid back by the end-user. Makes no sense.
And as a consumer, I want a simple and reliable car. I don't want my seat heaters to have a "DRM AUTHORIZATION FAILURE" error message and refuse to work when I need them.
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I'd actually like that. This means that I can probably use an Arduino to enable all the features that I have been locked out of - FOR FREE !
...will I be charged with circumventing security & have my car towed away?
If it's hardware, it's mine to do with as I please, up to and including enabling any functions that are disabled by the computer. The seat heaters are a good example. There are wires and connectors _somewhere_. I can't see that business model working for anything mechanical.
Software, such as the navigation system, is a different story. Need navigation? There's an app for that!
In Soviet Russia a beowulf cluster of these things imagines you welcoming your new, neural-network overlords.
woo, now we will have to jailbreak our cars now too......
Then you don't own it at all. Everything in it? Depends....
anyone with any mind at all would be able to turn the features on. there is no reason for a manufacturer to pay for the parts and put them in if people are not going to pay for them.
I can understand the concept of having unlockable/upgradable software. whether that is engine mapping programs or entertainment features. How can they possibly justify the additional cost of actual hardware for a car that may never activate it? Presumably with this business model, every car would have every single hardware feature on it which would add considerable cost to the base vehicle.
IBM used to do this: you could pay different prices for different clock speeds; if you paid for an upgrade the technician would arrive and remove the "slow down" jumper.
Oddly enough people felt ripped off by this. Who'da thunk it?
If something like this happens, there will be workarounds, but due to 'safety concerns' promoted by the automakers, cars using such firmware will be illegal.
Absolutely not. Why? For the same reason I'll never upgrade to Adobe Creative Cloud from CS 6. I don't want to be held ransom.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
If I buy a car, I buy a car, I dont "licence" it at a certain level of functionality, and then pay extra for features it already possesses.
Reminds me of stories about mainframes that were shipped with RAM or processors in excess of the contract, and when the inevitable upgrade was needed the techie set a set a few jumpers to enable the "new" hardware. Same thing - options, esp. electronic, have cost selling price. E.g., memory options in fondleslabs.
How is this going to benefit the consumer? will I go to jail if I thinker with my own car for which I payed a pretty penny?
Welcome to Life as a Service - where you dont actually own anything, but pay licensing fees indefinitely to rent-seekers.
I work for a company that designs oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, and other electronic test equipment. This is really common in our market segment- we put all the hardware in the box and calibrate it at the factory, but only enable the "options" a purchaser has selected. Then if they want a field upgrade, we sell them a key. It makes sense for us because the sales volumes are fairly low and most of the cost of the equipment is in the design and software, not the physical hardware. It's cheaper for us because we have fewer options on the assembly line- it's all the same so we don't have hundreds of extra part numbers to stock. It's pretty nice to be able to sell an instant upgrade that doesn't require a factory rebuild.
The link about MINI is suggesting they might make available DIY trim upgrades. Not trim level of the car, but the physical trim in the cabin. Think cell phones with replacable colored backplates. Absolutely nothing like TFS suggests.
Suckers will still be born everyday and fools will still be parted with their money. The more things change the more they will stay the same.
I think most people will find the idea of owning a car that has features they can't use without paying monthly for completely asinine; to say nothing of the big brother implications. Ideas like this are thought up by people with big dollar signs in their eyes, rather than the consumer in mind; despite what they may claim.
That is my main concern. As far as I'm concerned, if I have purchased a product, I am free to modify it as I see fit. Will they try to push for legislation to make it illegal for me to modify my car to enable those seat warmers they gave me but didn't collect from me? Will we no longer own our cars but only be licensed to use our cars?
guaranteed: adding more wiring, more chips, more screens, more whatever. but bigger features, front differentials and a transmission with more moving parts, etc. is MORE EXPENSIVE. sorry to break it to you. even though one could argue they would lower their bulk price of the features they pay, thats true. but adding them to all versions of everything sold is by definition more money than one built with no features. in part the lowering bulk price contributed to making things like power windows become still more money than hand cranks, but less of a difference such that its in most new vehicles. groups buying fleets of thousands can shave off a significant amount of money by removing them. but things like automatic 4wd or air conditioning, etc certainly are more money. it will not benefit the consumer because the automaker will never use mathematical projections that dont include for an upfront cost increase. imagine a shareholder saying "yes, a reasonable use of my money is installing AC, 4wd, full ceiling moon roofs, heated seats, etc in every single chevy cruise if it works out making my profit a steep negative if not enough people buy it". nope. its clear that though some options could fall into a category like this (a 2 dollar antenna and a cheap touch screen perhaps for nav) but really massive things like power transmission are certainly out. and here's the rub. i only use my heated seats in the winter already. they know this, when they cover these items for warranty, etc they already model the projected length of life of these seasonal or casual features. i dont use my air conditioning in the winter either, and it needs less servicing as a result. they know this and so does anyone without extra chromosomes. =)
Of course the consumer will get screwed. Car companies aren't in it to lose money.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
This "business model" is already here... it's called after-market. Wanted heated seats? Take out a small loan(monthly payment) and have them installed.
By finally securing the CANbus so that you can't
Seems to me then the whole car vanishes in a contradiction.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They could have a deal with the city/county. So the passengers see a pop up that says 'Would you like to pay 99 cents to travel 10 MPH of the speed limit?"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"...or are consumers going to just get screwed in the long run?"
I can see it now:
Me: It is cold and those heated seats would be nice now. Maybe I can just pay a monthly rate during the winter.
Car Company: I'm sorry but that option requires a 1 year contract.
I would have a sig but I am too busy updating programs and restarting my computer
the computer on the car gets reset? Do you have to reenter the codes every time your battery is replaced just like radio station presets? Sounds like a huge annoyance.
I've heard of cable TV companies doing this with set-top boxes that include DVR. They give everyone the DVR STB but only those who pay for the DVR service get to use it. Everyone else just gets to watch TV in real-time (woah).
The benefit from an operational point of view is that there is only one type of box to store in the warehouse so that techs going to a trouble call only need to carry one type of STB on their truck. For the customer, it means they don't have to trade in their old box if they decide to add or remove DVR service. (Not sure if that HDD spins all the time or only as needed, though.)
Also, the more features that are available, the more there is to go wrong. Wouldn't it suck though if you bought one of these cars, went years without all the fancy stuff, and then finally paid to enable a feature and whoops, it was broken? Hope that warranty is still good!
I don't agree - stupid consumers will get screwed, and unlocking features that were not licensed off the factory will be a new hack-athon.
When there is a closed market (such as automobiles which have greater entry costs and manufacturing inputs than software) the consumer will end up being screwed out of HOW they apply their savvy, not out of being able to apply savvy.
Do NOT give them ideas. It is bad enough that you need to pick your car carefully as to ensure aftermarket parts, because any "car maker only" part is exorbitantly priced. Rent options ? A car is an appliance...
Buy the lowest model, then hack, break, fix your owned vehicle to do what you want it to. I always get the lowest end sound system factory installed, then install what I want a few weeks later myself. You can install seat heaters for under $100, then have the upholstery redone, or just use a heated mat, hell wear a sweater and save a few grand.
"Wait, you didn't buy the heated seat package, how is your car heated?"
"I removed the system from the computer and wired it to the battery."
"You can't do that! You didn't have the heated seat package!"
"My car, bro."
Because banning jailbreaking phones kept it from happening, right?
This is exactly right - love your point of view, there are less people who can solder or screw these days, but they're not going to be affected by this. Just people with more money than time / skills.
Cars are sold for a profit (regardless of how thin it is). If they want to use this business model, they would have to sell a loaded vehicle at a loss, and hope that customers would then pay for the features at a cost point to make the sale eventually profitable for the manufacturers.
Then there is the used vehicle, sure I might sign an agreement that says I will pay for whatever features I want on a rental basis, but I still bought the car, I can sell the car to anyone I want, and there is no way that the manufacturer can enforce any contract on the second owner, which means he could in theory use alternate methods of reactivating all the disabled options...
Hell, in theory, once I own the car I could just make the features work, this is not a lease, (unless they restrict the rental options to leases only), at most they could void the warranty.. who knows.
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
we had this thing called "Regulation" that we used to stop companies from doing bad things. Those were good times, good times...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If you include extra costs into each car, then charge some subset of the total number of customers for those extra materials. Then that cost is going to be relatively high, and in nearly every case higher than simply customizing each car and paying the cost up front. So yes, consumers who want features get screwed or automakers stand to lose a substantial amount of money. Since we assume automakers aren't going to tolerate losing money, we can bet on us paying for it in the end.
Capitalism is all about finding ways to pass your costs on to the end user.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
If the heating elements are already in the car, then any moderately-skilled mechanic would be able to wire them up. It's just two wires and a switch (and a fuse, if you're one of those pantywaists who doesn't want his car catching fire).
With features that are cheap enough to add, this sometimes happens already. My 2010 Honda Fit base model, for instance, did not come with a remote lock/unlock feature from the factory. You can buy the "keyless entry system" from the dealer for about $150. What does it consist of? A key with the remote control features in it. That's all. The solenoids for locking and unlocking the doors are already there, they just aren't used. I was able to get it working for much less by buying a blank key from an online shop, following the directions to sync up the remote, and having it cut to fit at the local shop.
But, as others have noted, there are limits on the extent of this kind of practice. Shipping extra bits with a software package costs basically nothing, Shipping extra hardware in a car can get expensive quickly. They have to balance whether it costs less to ship all vehicles the same (economy of scale) or whether it would save money to leave a feature physically omitted from base trims. Then they have to decide whether they will get more money by including it for everyone (and thus using it as a selling point to drum up volume) or by charging it as an add-on.
If they get too greedy, then yes, buyers will just hack the car (or have someone else do it) to enable the missing features. As noted, this already happens sometimes. I wouldn't exactly call buying a key and following the official factory sync process a "hack", but it worked and it saved me some money.
I think, sooner rather than later, we're going to need some sort of regulation that prohibits this predatory type of rent seeking for small and inconsequential things.
Obviously, renting has its place (apartments, homes, whole cars, etc.), but when we start offsetting the cost of manufacturing variances, we are going to pay for it in more ways than we can imagine. Think "automotive DMCA"⦠*shudder*
The way cars are going these days, I'm only going to buy old cars from now on. In fact, I just bought a 1988 Jeep Wrangler and I love it. I searched for a long time to find something: A) Cheap, B) Not computerized, C) Easy to work on, D) Good condition for its age. Is it sexy? Nope. And I'm ok with that. I waited about 7 months to find it. It popped up on Craigslist one day and I bought it that same day.
I'll grant you that it's not very fuel efficient, but I don't drive that much anyway. And I feel good about being able to yank things apart and customize it where I see fit. Parts will be available for it for as long as I live. I even put a high-beam switch on the floor just because I can. I don't feel bad about scratching it or modifying it. Can you say the same for your current car?
I need to replace the dash. I'm going to replace it a DIY BeagleBone data capture and display system. It'll probably cost about $500 total for all the pieces. That puts my Jeep at $4500 total cost.
"or are consumers going to just get screwed in the long run" That depends. Do the built-in dildos have a monthly fee?
Since I'm in San Francisco, I'd like to lease the seat heater function. I'll pay for it from November through end of January and then I want to stop paying for it for the next 9 months.
Likewise, people in New England would probably only want A/C for a few weeks in July/August.
No chance on earth I want to pay $1k to enable seat heaters for something I'll only use a few times a year.
However, for someone in Florida, they should be able to pay a one time fee and get it forever.
...a used car that is governed to 25 MPH and can only make left turns because basic functionality has to be enabled via $50,000 DLC that was only included with the initial purchase.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
You might as well just rent the fucking car. In a decade self-driving cars will be around, and you will just rent one when you need to go a long way. For a short distance you will just walk, because you don't need to take the car everywhere when it's not your car.
We need to think about and prepare for the post-ownership world now, because it is... welp, my ride's here, gotta go.
As this article illustrates, protecting our automotive software freedom is more important now than ever. As our cars grow more dependent on computers, the software they run is of critical importance to securing the future of a free society. Free automobile software is about having control over the technology we use while travelling to our homes, schools and businesses, where automotive computers work for our individual and communal benefit, not for proprietary automobile companies or governments who might seek to restrict and monitor us.
Although the Free Software Foundation has been a leader in protecting our freedoms in many areas of computing, I have not heard of them doing much in the automotive software area. So, perhaps we have to do it ourselves. To that end, I propose the foundation of a Free AuTomobile Software Organization (FATSO) which would be a nonprofit with a worldwide mission to promote automotive computer user freedom and to defend the rights of all free automotive software users.
With the efforts of FATSO--and you--we all can regain fundamental automotive freedoms, including the freedom to drive and ride in heated seats.
(Note to the humor-impaired: the preceding was satire, not trolling or flamebaiting. Most of the text was adapted from the FSF website. As satire, adaptation of FSF's copyrighted text is believed by the author to be fair use, even in the likely event that the FSF doesn't get the joke.)
in 2005 toyota sienna water pump was 4.5 hours and you got a new timing belt for your trouble in2006 you need to pay for about 19 hours because the motor has to be removed ,the model for cars no longer includes serviceability so sure rent me those heated seats for 4 months a year
I thought we were all going to be ferried around by driverless cars that showed up 30 seconds after hitting summon car on our smartphone. Or have we already dropped that future?
Once upon a time we bought software. Now we can only license it. (Unless it's Adobe. In their case we can only rent it.) I'm sure the car manufacturers will figure out a way to screw everyone over the same way.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
Or buy the 'full feature ECU chip' rather than paying the official package price.
Of money for automakers doubt it'll happen
Of money for automakers doubt it'll happen
Reminds me of an old joke. A used-car salesman tells the buyer a nice car is "only $400, if you take it as-is". The customer says, "Wow, what a deal! Sure, I'll take it!"
After the payment is made, the customer gets in the car and tries to drive a way. "Wait", he says, "There's no gear shift in this car. How can I put it into 'drive' without a gear shift?"
"Oh" replies the salesman, "I forgot to tell you the gear shift is 3 grand extra."
Table-ized A.I.
pay to enable them?
That's pretty stupid
So you would have all the speakers of a premiere system but half wouldn't work?
A sunroof that's permanently covered?
The part about temporarily enabling the features is new, but not the ability to simply turn them on or off there. I actually tested the software that ran various car subsystems for a major auto manufacturer which was bought by the federal government about 15 years ago, and there were maybe a dozen convenience features -- automatic driver side windows instead of having to hold the button, etc -- that were merely a bit in firmware settings on or off. They were turned on if the car had premium feature packages or was a deluxe model.
It's just the ability to turn them on or off for a period of time by subscription that is new. I blame OnStar.
Someone will come up with a flashable jailbreak that unlocks all the features you're not paying for, voiding your warranty of course.
There might also be some sort of insurance problems there...
Of course they will be hacked. Then they will add DRM, use the DMCA, and finally, in order to monitor the users and make sure they do not hack their cars, mandatory internet connection? Nonsense
"My car decided to stop in the middle of highway because I exhausted my Internet package, officer"
This really isn't any different from the common practice of including satellite radio, usually bundled with other car options, and charging a monthly fee to keep it enabled.
It also makes sense in cases where the vast majority of consumers would opt to include a feature and it's cheaper to include it on all cars than manufacture different parts and add options to your assembly line just for a couple cars. Case in point: Tesla included 60KWh batteries on its 40KWh models and software limited them to 40KWh. (reference: http://www.dailytech.com/Tesla...). At a later time, consumers can pay to unlock the extra capacity.
It actually could be useful to enable features at a later time - you might move to a cold state and really wish your car had heated seats. If it really does increase costs so much, there will certainly be some car manufacturers who opt to save costs and we can buy from them instead.
E.U.L.A
It's right there in the 200 page document you signed to take possession of the car. This is software, which is only licensed - not sold. Sure, it's your car. Good luck getting it to run without using the ECM.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
My GMC had an option at purchase for the full Sat Nav system (color maps etc) for around $1k. I did not opt for the Sat Nav however when using the On Star free trial with my new car I was surprised to see that the vehicle has turn-by-turn navigation installed. This is both displayed on the center color screen and the monochrome screen next to the spedo. This navigation is only available by a subscription to On Star, which for me was about $300 a year with Nav.
This is an entry-level 50MHz dual channel DSO, that can be upgraded to 100 MHz bandwidth with a simple, widely available firmware hack.
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My car already has options such as this. I have a remote car starter that only works if you pay the annual fee. Mind you, this fee covers remote monitoring, gps and emergency services as well. So, what would it take to make the seat heater or the mirror defroster or the driving lights an after purchase option, not much. Just a few more things attached to the internal computer.
Now if someone can figure out how to permanently configure my starter to run without paying the fee and installing another unit, I'd be excited!
Now, for the devils advocate. What happens if the company goes out of business? Who maintains the database that states that you bought that option? What happens when they decide that they don't like an option or it gives them problems they just shut it off without notice? I'm sure a class action would resolve that, but something to think about.
Pretty much everything this article is talking about is already happening. Most "options" on a car these days are already set up, if you want them they reach under the dash or the hood and plug them in. Sure the parts are not installed yet, but they are trivial to do so and are typically very cheap if bought seperately.
I bought a 2011 FJ cruiser and as part of the deal got the the full set of dealer repair manuals to go with it. Sure the books cost me $600 (I couldn't find the digital version online anywhere, they only had the older model versions), but they paid for themselves after installing the optional alarm and trailer hitch myself which a few screws and plug.
The biggest payoff was having the damn seat belt not fastened and key in the ignition chimes turned off. Customer service kept insisting that couldn't be done right up until I could quote them page and table/paragraph for the options settings. Still looking for a copy of their software they use to configure everything so I don't have to bother going to the dealer to change anything in the future.
nuff said
place stand by for auto reboot
warring steering control may be lost.
muttermutter...
somethingsomething...
*cough*putting DLC on disc*cough*
muttermutter...
and driving in Mexico / Canada or just fringe roaming will cost you a lot of data fees.
they may do that with HD but they are selling the HD channels (other then the local limited basic ones in some systems) as add on and are slowly getting rid of the Very old SD boxes. So don't want HD we may give an HD box just so we don't have to deal with the old boxes with very limited ram.
Whether this model would benefit the consumer, the automakers, or both is yet to be seen.
First of all.... it's going to destroy the resale value of these features.
Second of all..... i'm sure you'll lose all these features, as soon as the title to the car changes ownership ("Non-transferrible license key activations")
Third..... all the options are probably going to be rented via a cloud-based licensing scheme. No option to purchase features outright; that would destroy manufacturer's long-term revenue stream.
Fourth.... buying an option for a short period of time is going to be expensive.
Fifth..... as soon as the car is no longer within the warranty period, and they want to buy you a new one ---- they will eventually decide you have to pay more and more every year to renew the subscription, until you don't, and eventually all the options will turn off; including the "Start engine" feature.
Of course they are. When you need to install extra hardware that is not used, it costs money. Even when you do not use it. Not only money to manufacture and install it, also to drive it around (weight costs fuel). The money for manufacture and fitting will have to be paid by the customer, regardless of whether they will use it or not. The extra fuel consumption... well of course the customer has to pay for it.
Screw, screw, screw. Roll over and get f*cked in the *ss, you stupid consumer. Consume some more so we can screw you some more.
Yet, this is a great revenue model, so expect every carmaker to adopt it. Screw, screw, screw some more.
Modern car makers often package features/behaviour differently per country to add various "feature sets" to the price list.
Many of these features are purely software based.
For instance audi has automatic tilting down of side mirror when you put the car in reverse and this feature is in some countries default and others has it as some additional package.
You can however buy kits on eBay to modify settings on the computer in the car and activate them.
Surely there would be jailbreaks to enable everything :) Roll on.
Everywhere you turn nowadays, there's always someone trying to nickel and dime you for every fucking thing under the sun.
It passed "ridiculous" decades ago.
At this point, people trying to turn things like automobile feature packages into rental items?
How many automotive execs do I have to, repeatedly, shoot to convince them this is a STUPID FUCKING IDEA?
Also, if I buy a car with all these features, and then hack the car to get all the features for nothing...then what? They gonna sue me for what I do with my own car?
What part of "Tongue-clean the darkest, nastiest, unwiped portion of my ass" would NOT come through in this message?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It's a bullshit idea, and I hope it never catches on, though I fear it will.
It comes from DLC, obviously, where it made some sense back when that actually meant downloadable content, i.e. new content not included in the original. These days, it often means unlocking content that is already included, but locked away.
What it really is, is a scam. The manufacturer obviously found a way to lower costs for feature A so that it is cheaper to install it into every car, even for those who don't want it, than it is to selectively produce cars with or without.
Yes, economically, that can make sense because it allows you to reduce the complexity of the manufacturing process.
However, the scam part is selling you product A when it actually is product B. You get something different from what you paid for. Sure, it has more features (locked away) instead of less, so you'll probably not complain, but to me, that's still too close to scam tactics (bait-and-switch) to be comfortable with.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
They're counting on it being cheaper to put butt warmers, GPS nav, etc. in all the cars, even though some of the customers ultimately won't pay for them. Couple of inter-related problems:
1. Any such system will obviously be hacked/cracked by owners. First-sale doctrine, as well as various state-level "right to repair" laws mean their recourse to legally prevent such shenanigans will be very limited. Don't be surprised if independent shops specializing in luxury makes (who already own said scan tools) offer such services at low cost.
2. Ignoring #1, the business case only closes if the take rate on the option is high (say >80%) and/or the incremental manufacturing cost is low. Otherwise it's cheaper to eat the manufacturing complexity and leave out un-ordered options.
3. #1 will erode the take rate of affected options, exacerbating #2.
2003-2005 models that didn't come with fog lights also didn't 'come with' heated mirrors although the hardware is in place. With the right software and cable (or pay a dealership into doing it) you can enable fog lights and that will enable the heated mirrors. It's the only instance that I personally know of where the hardware is already there but disabled in software, but I'm sure there's others.
And of course you can enable/disable/customize all sorts of other features of your car that are just outright software based. A few which were country specific or were never factory options (and can't even be enabled by your dealership) like digital speedometer. Kind of like how setting the power window function when ignition off to ec (European) instead of us enables use of the power windows when the car is off.
I've enabled 'features' on friends BMW's such as passing lights, exterior light flash when lock/unlock, interior lights on when trunk opened, power windows with car off, closing of car with key fob (top, or windows and sunroof), fog lights as cornering lights, daytime running lights, the little red clown nose under the rear view mirror to flash after the car has been locked for 10 seconds even though the car doesn't even have an alarm, instant mpg, etc. And of course the heated mirrors by enabling fog lights...
Most fast German cars are sold with a speed limiter set to 250 km/h (155 mph), which can safely be removed - the car is engineered for its true top speed.
Another common software limitation is the ECU of low-power engines. Often it's just the ECU which makes it a low-power engine, in order to upsell to more expensive engines
In the neat DIY hackable way?
Signed in just to post. Needless to say, I would avoid cars and entire brands that tried to pull this crap.
Upon further reflection, maybe I WOULD purchase a car like this, then hack it to pieces (not literally). Once the unlock codes are out there, who is to say? :) It still sounds like a bad idea for the consumer, however.
-Miser
i sell cars. this would kill the industry. plus service. oh something broke. oops.
In the 80s and 90s, GM sold the tilt steering wheel as an option. The vehicles that didn't have the option had all of the components for it except the handle. A wise "hacker" could install the handle himself instead of buying the option. The economics are simple. The components are cheaper than the cost of building two different modules. You have to re-tool the factory, keep track of which vehicles have it, deliver the correct one to the dealer, and maintain two different components for the life of the vehicle (i.e. stock replacement parts for both, separate instructions in the service manuals for each, higher learning curve for the mechanic, etc.). And it should be obvious that you're charged what you'll pay, not what it costs.
Will it become illegal for car owners to hack the car and enable the features? I think so.
I have a year old car. To get the features I want, the car came with XM radio with a 3 month subscription. After those first months, I received subscription paperwork in the mail and the working features of my car stopped working. So now I have essentially dead buttons on my console.
You could argue that satellite is different, that I'm paying the extra money for the "quality content." I won't argue too much except I will laugh about using XM and "quality content." in the same sentence. The end result is that I have useless hardware in my car if I don't want to pay a subscription fee.
Complain all you want about the rentable features coming to cars, but the problem is already here.
I like the idea. I love it when I can buy the cheaper model of a product, and with a little soldering over some jumper points or something, upgrade my device into the higher priced version. If I could get all those expensive features like heated seats for free I would be jumping all over that. And don't think for a second that people would not figure out how to activate these features on the cars once you got them home. They would and the instructions on how to do it would be on the internet real quick.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
"What if in the future you could buy a car and unlock options later? "
You mean like the XM Radio that's installed in most new cars?
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
My neighbor bought a Ford truck in 1997. It came with an alarm system. He haggled the price down and said he didn't want to pay for an alarm system. They took the truck around to the service bay and disabled it with a code reader device. Talk about someone being upset.... the idea that it was there installed in the truck and Ford had rather install the parts by default and then disable it infuriated him.
If the 'feature' is already manufactured and installed in the automobile, how would they justify charging for it later? Is the car going to come with a EULA that says you don't own it? Will the car purchase will become a car license? I hate all this sh1t. It all started with stupid iTunes.
I don't want to live in that kind of world. If I buy a cheaper car it's because those features ARE NOT IN THE CAR. Having "options" is not the same as having unlockable features. This is like "DLC on the disc" for video games. If I buy something, I expect to own the entire contents of the thing I have purchased.
If this "feature renting" thing becomes the norm in my life time, you can BET I will be a pioneer in the field of "hacking" these features to life in my car, and gladly sharing walkthroughs on the internet with other people looking to do the same. Lock me up if you want. If I bought a car with heated seats, I'm going to use them, not pay extra to have someone else turn them on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...
This is why I love science fiction. Written in 1969, it describes this sort of "business model" being the most ubiquitous one. Sure it misses on a lot of stuff, and much of it is fantastical, but it is those grains of truth that are interesting.
In the book, the protagonist is in debt, and has to pay for everything by coin slot basically. Everything. Including his front door and toaster.
I meant that literally. I spent money on a Hyundai Sonata and they're already renting features as services.
I couldn't find one with remote start because Hyundai is pushing their (shockingly bad) remote start feature as part of their Blue Link package. Spoiler alert: It costs twice as much per year as it would cost for a one-time installation of a remote starter. And it works properly less than half the time. But they don't care, because they've made it difficult to find an alternative, so they can charge whatever the market will bear. And before you say "that's how a free market operates," realize that what they've done is change the market. They are no longer competing against aftermarket installers, they are competing against... no one. Maybe against other manufacturers - but how hard is it for most automakers to agree to screw their buyers like this?
This business model won't be an option for budget-conscious drivers; it will be another revenue stream for automakers once they sew up any chance of installing an aftermarket unit.
(Btw, when I called to cancel the Blue Link trial, I mentioned to the operator that it has a high failure rate. She firmly told me "That's impossible, sir. If you receive a confirmation email, then the car must have started."
Yeah, except I was standing next to the inert car when I received an email that it had started... )
For several years now, VAG has been building cars where some of the options can be added by tweaking settings in the car's computer system, or by adding a few inexpensive components. I can add an alarm to mine just by plugging a horn and a couple of sensors into the car's network. Similarly, the wiring for heated mirrors is installed by default even if the option is not checked by the initial customer, I replaced the standard mirror glasses with heated ones and was good to go. $50 and 10 minutes to enable a $200 option. Lists of available options circulate on the internet.
Only our corporate lords are allowed to own things (in certain cases political overseers as well, and our usury masters).
It seems the logical (yet highly cynical) conclusion to the wealthy lord, poor peasant relationship. Back in the day, lords owned everything, and peasants payed a rent for the privilege of working a lords lands to eek out an existence and then pay taxes to the same lord. However the bad part about this relationship is that every now and again the peons would get so angry about the situation that some lords would get burned (literally).
Fast forward to our modern society which have a government that peons feel empowered about because they elect them, who they pay taxes to, who enable corporations with taxes and ownership rights, who the peons all work for and pay for. However in this situation the government is elected, and the corporation is more less a nebulous entity, with no one really left to take responsibility for anything (the whole reason to incorporate). Add in government backed corporate lenders etc... Wonderful situation progress has made. At least back in the day the mob knew who to go after when they yoke became too much to take anymore.
I can tell you right now what would happen, because it already exists, and has for some time.
This would be no different than if you modify your car. Your insurance will go up. Why? Because they will justify your car becoming more high risk. If you fail to notify them, and they deem your modification significant enough to modify the risk, guess what, you won't be covered should you require it.
You can get anywhere you want to go using only left turns. Right turns are a luxury option!
And if you buy the car, and have a title to it, then I can't see how they could enforce you enabling "features" by yourself. I can see them going after someone making a business of enabling tools... and even that, if they get you to sign something saying that the vehicle was out of warranty, or if you've bought it used.
True story: many years ago, we had a washer. It was what we could afford, but it only had one water level, no small/medium/large. One day, looking at a repair your own appliances book, I read something amazing: they said that it was cheaper for manufacturers to put the level control in all of them than to make some without.
I pulled off the faceplate of the controls... and there it was. I drilled a hole in the faceplate, and we had screwdriver water control.
There's such a thing as being too cheap for your own... oh, right, that's clearly a marketdroid idea for increasing ROI.....
mark
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Libertarians believe everything any marketdroid says....
If the seat heaters that I rent die, and the warranty has already expired, because I don't own the heaters, will the dealership repair them free of charge as long as I am renting them? Further, will they be able to "End-of-Life" features?
BMW make the MINI range of cars having bought the brand off Rover. Nor are all MINI's 'Coopers' since they have MINI One, Countryman and so on. So it should be BMW MINI followed by the model.
I personally don't equate these new BMW cars with the actual BMC/BL/Rover Mini released in 1959 as the last actual Mini was made in 2000 to be replaced by this much larger car which apes the appearance of the original (like the modern Beatle does, or the Fiat 500.) I'm sure this new car is a great car, but it isn't a Mini and Alec Issigonis wouldn't recognise it as being a true member of the Mini family. I've owned three Minis, and they were all plenty big enough for me (6'2" tall) but I found the BMW car to be much too cramped inside for me to reasonably drive. Then they made that 4x4 one......
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
I don't agree - stupid consumers will get screwed, and unlocking features that were not licensed off the factory will be a new hack-athon...
Like with DRM, it will be a felony to bypass the feature locking mechanism in the USA (and most of the rest of the world, thanks to lobbyists and policy laundering. All consumers will get "screwed".
Hope you DIY enthusiasts aren't living in a state with mandatory life sentences for your third "felony"!
Paul "Say no to feeping creaturism"
that doesn't have all this shit that i don't want
FUCK ALL THAT