Slashdot Mirror
How Russia Transformed a Subtropical Beach Resort To Host the Winter Olympics
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Duncan Geere reports at The Verge that Russian resort as Sochi, on the eastern shore of the Black Sea, is humid and subtropical with temperatures averaging about 52 degrees Fahrenheit (12 C) in the winter, and 75 degrees (24 C) in the summer. "There is almost no snow here — at the moment it's raining," says Olga Mironova, a local resident. It's estimated that the cost of staging the Olympics in Sochi has been greater than the previous three Winter Games combined — ballooning to a whopping $51 billion including the cost of implementing an extensive system of safeguards to ensure there'll be sufficient snow in Sochi for the games including the cost of implementing one of the largest snowmaking systems in Europe. The system includes two huge water reservoirs that feed 400 snow cannons installed along the slopes that can generate snow in temperatures of up to 60 degrees fahrenheit (16 C). If that snow isn't enough, then the authorities will fall back on 710,000 cubic meters of snow collected during the winters of previous years leading up to the games. To keep it from melting in the region's hot summers, 10 separate stockpiles have been kept packed tight under insulating covers high up in the mountains, safe from the sun's rays. Down in Sochi itself the other half of the games will be held in five indoor arenas that will host figure skating, speed skating, hockey, and curling, and an additional outdoor area will host the opening and closing ceremonies. In each of these indoor arenas, underfloor cooling systems are installed so that the ice stays frozen above it using propylene glycol, which doesn't freeze until temperatures reach 8.6 F (-13 C). Climatologists predict that even under a best-case scenario, almost half the venues that have hosted the Winter Olympics over the last century would be unable to do so by 2080 without resorting to extensive and expensive artificial snowmaking techniques.""
Temperatures are usually reported in degrees Celsius. Please fix this.
How do warmists explain that in my air conditioned house, temperature never goes above 70 farhenheit? AGW doesn't exist. What exists is AIC (anthopological indoor cooling).
Sort out your units, or you lose the right to use any of them.
Taking a semi-tropical place and turning it into an expensive, barely working winter wonderland is a very stupid idea. Implementing it is even stupider.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
43.5 degrees N (more northerly than Buffalo, NY) is not "subtropical."
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Not to nention that Sochi is characterised by poverty, separatism, terrorism and mass beach tourism:
http://www.thesochiproject.org...
Pete Boyd
Did Obama do something last night that we need to be distracted about. Usually don't pull out the Bush did it card til we need to distract from his actions.
Its down to the monumental institutionalised corruption in Russia where everyone from the highest level apparatchik down to the brick layer is on the take.
These games are also a show of the absolutely incredible depth of corruption in Russia. The initial budget of $12 billion has ballooned to over four times to some $50 billion – the most expensive winter or summer Olympics in the history. The 45-kilometre road from Sochi to the outdoor venues alone cost $8 billion, enough to pave the finished road with 5-millimetre thick gold. It was a common arrangement in the Olympic construction projects to use the money as follows: 30% for the actual construction work, 35% to the officials and 35% to the "oligarchs" who oversaw the project. And let's not forget how the Sochi locals who happened to live near the coming Olympic venues have been brutally forced on the streets without any compensation for their expropriated property, thanks to a special law that Putin had passed in Duma. You should see the documentary Putin's Games for some background on the mind-boggling amounts of corruption in these games.
Ok. I'm frankly sick and tired of all this media campaign of discrediting the Russian olympic games. I mean, this article is completely ridiculous.
As a comparison, the weather in Sochi is similar to the one in Grenoble (at least from a temperature point of view). Now, the thing is that I live in Grenoble, which was also the location of the olympic games in the 60's. Like in Sochi, right now it is raining in Grenoble, and the temperatures are around 10 degrees Celsius. Despite this, just yesterday I went skiing at the resort which hosted the downhill event in the 60's and guess what? Perfect skiing conditions, all slopes were open and no artificial snow has been used in the last 4 weeks. How is this possible? Well, most of the events at the winter olympic games are hosted in the mountains, which in the case of Grenoble are 2000 meters above the level of the city. I don't know about Sochi but the Caucas mountains have peaks of over 5000 meters.
Just comparing the temperatures in the biggest city which happens to be located near the actual mountains which host the games is completely stupid!
Now, doesn't the lack of shower curtains and door knobs seem a bit pedantic?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
That Q&A is a hard fact that except for some drift it comes so close to what is reality, We were driven to near austerity in the 80s with the this mentality. Here we were in the 2000s and nearly achieved it the second time around in that same geographical area. History is being denied just as AGW is now being denied. It's time to stop living the American dream which for most has been a nightmare and start living the American Reality. We have to address global warming with the same attitude as a Soviet invasion would have been that never came to be. A few more questions . ...
Q. How come we can't watch the Olympics?
A. Because we don't have a cable provider and our video stream is not a sponsor of the NBC networks.
Q. But I thought the Olympics were for everyone including so we could support our team?
A. They are but the sponsoring is now controlled by greedy networks that are run by exclusive clubs owned by the elite.
Q. Do the elite believe in AGW?
A.
I guess they couldn't find a colder place in such a tiny territory
ROFLMAO You should submit this script to "Saturday Night Live" or for a more politically satirical delivery contact "The Rick Mercer Report."
This is the comment I am forced to type.
Yeah, making snow in Russia... Only in Russia... The cost of Olympic games is more than $50 Billion, or approximately $500 per Russian citizen, that is including babies and retired people. Had most of Russians been asked whether they agree to donate $500 per person they would have told "No". So they blew $50 billion... That is not entirely correct since this $50 billion has transformed to the salaries of the workers, organizers and security, cost of construction materials and the profits for organizers. So it is not all gone to waste. However Olympic games has always been a classic and favorite way of spreading the wealth... upwards. in 50 years we will hear about Russia's summer Olympic games in Arctic pole.
While the indoor activities may well be in the City of Sochi, the activities which actually requires a large amount of snow (alpine and nordic) are actually arranged in Rosa Khutor, which may only be 50 km away, but happens to be approximately 1000 meters above sea level, something which does have an impact on the climate.
There may be lots of things wrong with these Olympics, but there is no need to exaggerate.
Right up until the end when GLOBAL WARMING.
Surely they have plenty of really cold places in the Noth of Siberia - with the added bonus that that it would be further away from the muzzy threat. Why did they hold it in Sochi?
The Greater Caucasus Mountains where the Olympics are being held receive as much snowfall as any major ski resort in the US. It's just a bad year for them...sort of like Vancouver 4 years ago. I really don't understand the "subtropical" knock that everyone keeps repeating. This is a huge mountain range that gets tons of snow every year. Not considering climate change, the facilities they've built in the mountains will probably serve as a very nice ski resort after the olympics...
Yes but in such a system, woe be to the local bureaucrat who fucks up Dear Leader's I 'r Sewious plans just to line his pockets.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
In Soviet Russia We Host You!
Common sense I do have.
Obviously. You have so much of it, that you can completely disregard obvious facts. That must be convenient.
WTF does this have to do with the original article?
It has a lot to do with the original article, which is unfortunately somewhat off track. The subject tackled are the important investments to ensure proper conditions for the winter competition. Sadly the article and the title used by slashdot are missleading, as they suggest these investements are made to transform a sub-tropical climate into a winter paradise. What so many people fail to understand is that the climate up in the mountains IS NOT the same as the one near the sea in the city of Sochi.
So what does it have to do with it? A lot.
What the poster of this article understood but you - and most likely the journalist behind the article - failed to understand is that the a large part of the investments are made to ensure that the proper conditions are met in the competition sites in the mountains (not in the sub-tropical paradise, mind you). The risk of having non-adequate conditions, and thus require the equipement and huge investment behind it - is obviously linked to the climate.
I do not believe Sochi - and the sites in the mountains in the direct neighbourhood - could ever garantee the right conditions, regardless of the outcome of the winter. Hence the large investements. The interesting catch is that many of the past Winter Olympic sites, which could garantee for those conditions, fall in the same category as Sochi due to climate change. This means that these sites would also need similar investments to hold such competition in the future.
But stick to your common sense, widely feed by ignorance and closed mindset.
Have you a better source than the daily mail for that one?
The 0-100 degreen range of Farenheit better represents the range of temperatures that humans encounter. http://imgur.com/gallery/ucOQh
YAWN...libertarians predicted we'd be in complete anarchy with the collapse of the dollar where only the buyers of guns, gold and bitcoin would survive.
That's what happens when you follow short bus ideas and extrapolate them into the future.
2080? heh. Reminds me of Disraeli saying (and I am paraphrasing) that politicians enjoy a the privilege heretofore only afforded to whores - power without responsibility. I guess climatologists, too, now. Making predictions not verifiable until after their retirement? Check.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
by 2080, we shall live in a 3D printed paradise as our children fly back and forth between the local galaxies in exotic-matter powered warp drives. Surely by 2080 the Makerbots will have snow cartridges in them?
Apparently they've been around for a long time but just hiding and lurking or pretending to post intelligently.
They might just as well aim for bringing the event to Jamaica!
Did you just respond to a troll? Moron.
It sounds very much like Stalin-style mass industrialism where massive resources are thrown at something to accomplish it. Usually it's done regardless of cost and almost seems to be done to demonstrate ability and capability more than the intrinsic value of what's being done.
In Russia, the snow bank breaks you!
Climate change is bad science corrupted by money and politics. It's an embarrassment.
Allow me to divide one meter by the amounts you mentioned:
3 - 0,333mm (use as much precision as you'd like)
2 - 0,500mm
4 - 0,250mm
Now, allow me to do something you can't do trivially with imperial units:
How many centimeters does a kilometer have?
1km = 1000m = 100.000cm
Try doing that under 5 seconds with imperial units.
You only insult yourself by using such stupid arguments. SI is better.
Why establish a unit system commensurate with human experience? Hmmm....
All systems of measurements are based on arbitrary references.
The difference is that SI is a coherent system of base and derived units with very simple relationships between them, all based on the number 10 and a series of greek prefixes.
Nobody ever asks themselves (*kids still learning the basics excepted) how many meters are in a kilometer. Knowing that, nobody is going to be left wondering how many grams there are in a kilogram or how many newtons in a kilonewton. The keyword is coherency.
SI is coherent within itself and with the numerical system used by nearly everyone on this planet (base 10). Imperial units are neither.
Also, SI is used in all but three countries. Don't you think those three countries might have done things wrong?
Have gnu, will travel.
For narrowing your argument down to labeling a combined area of two continents under a single climate type. I suppose you would then say Earth is subtropical.
Last I checked, the US do not represent a majority of the world's population (the other two countries who do not use SI do not alter this significantly and are essentially irrelevant in industrial terms). Therefore, a majority of the world's population uses SI units (and thus degrees Celsius and Kelvin).
Your reluctance to accept SI is baffling, moronic even.
it's fucking ridiculous. with 51 billion dollars you could have hosted the games in Helsinki, BUILT THE FUCKING MOUNTAIN for the slope needing competitions and still have the hotels ready in time.
but you want to know the really funny thing? Sochi has more gay clubs than Helsinki.
it's not one or two guys who got killed over the Sochi contracts either. that's why foreign companies didn't touch the bidding for contracts... and why the companies really didn't think that they would be penalized on payments if they fail to deliver on time properly.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
calculate it . stop being lazy
PC Gaming enthousiast that gives comments, opinions and reviews on Games. I'm just having fun with games while doing let
The quote down the bottom for me was something along the lines of "one of the great mercies of the human brain is its inability to compare its contents."
Is 1563649 a prime number?
where there is a will there is a way
I guess every cloud has a silver lining.
With 51 billion dollars you could cover the US fiscal deficit for about 20 days!
Yeah, in a proper capitalist institution, only the highest level is supposed to be on the take.
With Russia having the mountain ranges and abundant amounts of cold and snow in other regions, why host the games here? I think this is just Putin waving his dick about.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
you're deliberately missing the obvious point that 12 can be divided into by thirds and quarters with integer results while 10 cannot.
And 12 cannot be divided into fifths. So what?
A base 10 unit system is better because (and only because) base 10 is our primary number system.
You say that like it is a minor thing. Why would you not want your measurement system to have some some relevance to your number system?
I would tend to argue that Imperial units tend to be more natural...
The inch was originally the length of a barleycorn. Please explain what possible relevance that has to our modern society?
Not to nention that Sochi is characterised by poverty, separatism, terrorism and mass beach tourism
So when poor beach tourists start advocating a violent separation from Russia, we should be concerned?
Celsius merely replaces one set of 'arbitrary' reference points with another...
No, what it does is get (almost) everyone in the world using a single consistent measurement system so that we can communicate effectively and save a lot of money by not having to maintain extra unnecessary tools and instruments and documentation and conversion charts. It means I can go anywhere in the world (except the US) and know what temperature is being referred to without doing math.
Aside from that, it's what people grew up & are comfortable with.
No. The main benefit is that 95% of the world uses it. The fact that you grew up with something else does not make it a good idea to use that something else out here in the real world. Standard measurement systems are a Good Thing.
Those who make these predications have figured out that they really shouldn't call for "the end of snow" within a 10-year time frame. Only make predictions that will be verified after you are retired (or dead). Smart...
It really depends what you're using said units for.
Generally speaking it really doesn't. The advantages of using something you are familiar with are VASTLY outweighed by the advantages of having to only maintain one system and one set of tools and one set of gauges and one set of documentation and one set of instruments and the fact that you can communicate with others without using any conversion charts with their inevitable errors. You prefer cups over liters because you are used to it, not because it is more effective.
That's funny, because most of the actions people get enraged at Obama about were started by Bush.
TSA? Bush.
Middle-east clusterfuck? Bush.
Current NSA crap? Bush.
Drones? Bush.
"Obamacare"? Romney. (Ah, you got me, it was a different Republican that started that particular thing the Republicans are calling Obama evil for doing...)
Fuck Beta!
I guess changing the town would be considered a beta. It seems that hasn't worked out well.
The 0-100 degreen range of Farenheit better represents the range of temperatures that humans encounter.
It is exactly the same unless you have some integer fetish. The only difference is the number used. If you need sub-integer precision with Celsius then, gasp, use a decimal. It's not hard to say 21.2 degrees.
0-100 allows for finer granularity of temperature representation without resorting to fractions or decimals, which, while simple enough, are more cumbersome than integers for the average person to deal with.
Only if you have an integer fetish. Furthermore, somehow 95% of the world somehow seems to exist just fine without Fahrenheit so the integer granularity advantage you are touting seems to be of dubious value. You also seem to be discounting the benefit of being able to communicate with 95% of the world without using a conversion chart.
There are many parts of the USA where the "Deep Winter" is more like -40. So your overall range is roughly either -40-100 in F or -40-38 in C.
Awesome stupidity!
01/01/01
You don't seem to appreciate what Sochi was and what it has become now. Yes, some money got stolen, so what? This is Russia.
However, do you think it's easy to build all the infrastructure from effectively scratch? It's relatively easy to hold Olympic games a places like Vancouver or London. Those cities got the best airports in the worlds, hotels, much of sports venues, and public transport infrastructure. Sochi had none of that. In the early 90s this was a crumbling summer resort that even Russians refused to visit. This place was basically a giant village and a dump. Now it has modern highways, airports, light rail, hotels, and sports venues. And now that all of those facilities are there, Russians and other tourists are going to use those facilities because the Sochi area is a spectacular location for vacations.
Not any more. That was the old Sochi, a marginalized town in the middle of nowhere. Now it is a modern resort town with modern hotels and a nearby ski resort, ready for tourists all year round, and soon to be a stop on the trans-Asia road leading from Ukraine, through the soon-to-be new tunnel to Russia, and onwards through Georgia to the rest of Asia. If you really want to understand Sochi. then you need to learn about what Russia did in Kazan for the Universiade in the summer of 2013, and in Vladivistok with the new bridge to develop Russkiy Island. Not to mention dozens of other development projects including Skolkovo in the Moscow suburbs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skolkovo_innovation_center
Sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
It's not ridiculous. It would have been cheaper to go to Helsinki, but Helsinki already has some transport infrastructure, probably some hotels, and some sports venues. For Zeus's sake, it's the capital of a country. Sochi had none of that. The old Soviet infrastructure that hasn't been maintained for 20 years, had to be torn down the rebuilt again. Airports, hotels, highways, light rail, etc, no to mention the sports venues. Sochi had zero previous sports infrastructure. Yes, a lot of the money got stolen, but holding such games in Sochi instead of say Moscow, has a huge investment potential because it's a great destination and people will visit after the Olympics again. Moscow is already a great city and doesn't need a spending boost from the Olympics.
There is no separatism in Sochi. Sochi is in Krasnodar region of Russia, which is predominantly Russian populated. I think you're confusing Sochi with the neighboring predominantly Muslim populated russian republics such as Chechnya and Dagestan.
...is a pain, and not at all uncommon. Frankly, I do see advantages to using a base-12 measuring system, but sometimes metric makes more sense.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
I would imagine that the write-up that is quoted in the comment above is from 2003-4 or thereabouts. You're welcome to extend it with modern realities if you'd like (note how it covers more than just Bush era).
It's funny that you should bring up Skolkovo, given how the main innovation that it produced so far is the means of funneling away the budget in highly efficient ways. Seriously, Skolkovo is entrenched as one of the symbols of government corruption of the Putin era (the Olympics will probably be that, as well, but at least they have something to show for it, unlike Skolkovo).
Islamists in those republics lay claim to the entire southern Russia, claiming that it is historically Muslim territories occupied by infidels - and, as such, Dar al-Harb.
Only if he does not get away in time.
Yes, a lot of the money got stolen, but holding such games in Sochi instead of say Moscow, has a huge investment potential because it's a great destination and people will visit after the Olympics again.
Actually, they won't, which is why several Olympic venues were intentionally constructed in such a way that they can be deconstructed later and moved to some other part of the country where they're actually useful on a more permanent basis (do you really think that the expensive snow producing will be kept on after the Olympics?). The other problem is the shoddy quality of a lot of what was built, because of endemic corruption and a rush to complete it on time.
You could also say that it was a worthwhile state project because it put money in the pockets of all those workers that built the infrastructure, but the majority of them were immigrants from other countries...
So, literally, these Olympics do nothing positive for Russian economy. The money that's spent on it is partly wasted on infrastructure that's going to be unused after the Olympics, partly left the country in the pockets of migrant labor, and partly left the country after being pocketed by the corrupt builders and stashed away in their Swiss accounts.
Well, any crazy "separatist" from any region of the world could lay a claim on some piece of land where there is almost no one of their kind is living right now. And the linked map is a product of a sick imagination that can exist only inside of an Islamist mind. It's like Al Qaeda still crying over the lost muslim land in Spain. This doesn't really mean anything. Separatism is when people living on the land want to become separate. For example, you can say there exist separatism in Catalonia region of Spain. But in Krasnodar Krai region of Russia, where Sochi belongs, the population is over five million but only 1% are Muslim.
All venues and hotels will not be disassebled and moved. I heard a story of one stadium or so, not a big deal. The ski resort will remain, most of the Olympic village will remain (and will host the Formula 1 race), the hotels will remain, the airport, light rail, and other infrastructure will remain. When the Soviet Union existed, the Black Sea coast was the number one summer vacation destination for the Russians, and I don't see a reason why tourism won't pick up again with new infrastructure and also huge instability in places like Egypt and rest of North Africa (a lot of Russians like to take summer vacations there).
You call it corruption. In the US they call it business. Show me a military toilet that cost $350 and I'll show you apparatchik. Show me a congress with well-greased palms which stagnates political progress and I'll show you apparatchik. In Russia its all Putin's way and absolutely no one else's way. In the US its a "Block at every stage and turn any progress". In Russia the government acts like a corporation: absolute greed, no respect for people, dissenters are utterly crushed. In the US, at least there are two camps you can live in. So in Russia there is progress, but its all one sided. In the US, the President must give executive orders for there to be progress.
All venues and hotels will not be disassebled and moved. I heard a story of one stadium or so, not a big deal.
At least three venues will be disassembled: the "Iceberg" winter sports palace (built for figure skating and short track skating), the "Ice cube" curling center, and the "Small ice arena" for hockey.
The ski resort will remain, most of the Olympic village will remain (and will host the Formula 1 race), the hotels will remain, the airport, light rail, and other infrastructure will remain
That's actually part of the problem. A lot of that infrastructure is designed solely for Olympics, and will not ever again see the number of users that would justify the maintenance costs. It's not like, say, the monorail they've built in Vancouver for the 2010 Olympics - that one was also expensive, but it remains in service because it is actually useful day to day to route traffic between Richmond, Vancouver and the airport. Who is going to need the huge Adler - Krasnaya Polyana road after the Olympic crowds go away? How much will it cost to maintain, given that it cost $200 million per km to build?
The people who previously went to Egypt will go to Turkey instead. It's not like the Olympic infrastructure build-up will solve the two primary existing reasons for why Russians prefer to go abroad for vacations: crappy service at exorbitant prices. If anything, the prices will only get even higher now with all that infrastructure to maintain...
Yes, "separatism" is not a precise description for what these guys up to, and hasn't been for a while, but it's the one that got stuck.
FWIW, the difference between Caucasian jihadists and al-Qaeda crying about Spain is that Spain hasn't been Muslim for many centuries now, while the last time large portions of Caucasus were self-governed as an Islamic emirate was during Shamil's rebellion 140 years ago. As for the coastline, of which Sochi is a part, it was Circassian until they were ethnically cleansed in roughly the same time period. So, while history, it's not exactly ancient history.
Also, when counting the Muslim persentage in Kradnodar krai, you have to include Adygea to get a meaningful count (since it is, essentially, an artificially segregated enclave of Muslim Circasians inside the krai). So it's closer to 2%.
2% still quite a meaningless number, even with Adygea included, and then you have to find out how many of them are actual separatists. For all I know, the map posted above has been drawn by foreign-funded and foreign dominated Wahhabi jihadists who are predominantly based outside of Krasndar Krai, and do not even represent well the people of the Muslim republics of North Caucasus, many of whom have always been adherents of more moderate Sufi islam. The Jihadists's map even includes the territory of North Ossetia, majority Christian and one of the most pro-Russian republics in the Caucasus region. This just shows the ridiculousness of the jihadist's claims and appetites.
I wouldn't call Adygea's creation by a harsh term of "artificial segregation". The Adygea republic and many others were created by Communists many years after Russian conquest of Caucasus, with the good intention to give all the ethnic minorities at least some kind of autonomy. Without Adygea, the local Circassians wouldn't have had any political power with such small population. Of course, later Stalin, and some subsequent rulers, including Putin, made a complete mockery of the idea of the Russian "Federation". However, the original intention to create republics for local ethnicities was not a bad one, and it wasn't a "reservation".
some games. I understand it's a time to leisurely have fun but how much time and money before enough is enough?
What a mess! I shudder to think of the devastation caused to the environment because of this venue. I don't understand why we don't have the Olympics in the same places we've had them before so we can reuse the venues. It's such a waste.
Turkey isn't exactly stable either.
The instability in Turkey does not translate to hassling tourists, though.
The Olympics has devolved into just another sick, greedy, global corporapist.
They wasted billions in Sochi that could have gone toward ending a lot of human misery.
Pathetic.
So have they been using the fake snow that the illuminati and tin hatters are complaining about on YouTube? The stuff that won't burn, and turns black when you try to light it? Laid down by Chemtrails, etc. ?
Shoot, they didn't have to do that. I have enough in my driveway to make a decent ski jump. Just come and get it.
That.
.. and I use metric because, well, it is easier for me now that I used European developed prepress and printing systems. That daung Adobe PostScript with its points messed me up a little back in the 80s, but eventually I was less an idiot than I am now. It is learn-able and logical.