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Two Gunman Killed Outside "Draw the Prophet" Event In Texas
cosm writes: ABC news reports that two armed gunman were shot and killed outside a "Draw the Prophet" event hosted in Garland Texas. From the article: "The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands. The winner of the contest was to receive $10,000." In light of the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks, the Lars Vilks Muhammad drawing controversies, and the American show South Park's satirical depiction of the state of Muhammad phobia in the US and elsewhere, is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?
were slow at the draw - texas style...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
They place containers of corn in plain site of their blinds for weeks, then hide out on opening day of hunting season and take the deer by the dozens
Seems like they were baiting for 'terrorists' in a similar way
The unfortunate part is the two gunmen knew this was a suicide mission before they attempted the attack and decided a less violent form of protest didn't convey their message well enough.
~~
And god bless the 2nd amendment.
Just imagine the bodycount if this was held at the Whitney or the MOMA
There, I fixed it for you, and in a way that will give greater understanding of the religion and its "prophet" who married a 6 year old.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
And don't forget to load your hollow points with pork.
No. Of course not. Religious madness will not stop as long as religion exists.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
tfs wrote
two armed gunman
What other kind of gunman is there? If they were unarmed they couldn't be gunmen. I guess it could mean two-armed gunmen, in which case all is forgiven.
You can't turn off their constant video crap. It's not a site I will visit. Likely too many tracking cookies to count.
You would think even people stupid and fanatic enough to do this would know that Texas is the wrong place to try and pull a Charlie Hebdo.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
loud xenophobic fascist Wilders
Muslims are the loud xenophobic fascists here.
No, it is not "explicitly banned in Islam".
It may or may not be a sign of "grave disrespect", but so what? Having your beliefs disrespected is part of life, whether you're a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or atheist.
Why to the police for a city with 1/4 million residents have desert camouflage?
This made my day, the event, the turn out for the event, the gunmen stupid enough to draw a weapon in Garland Texas (bit of a rough place if you didn't know).
Ahhh, just ridiculously funny.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I question your love of bashing, there isn't anything better than bashing religion, and it's even funnier when 2 zealots get clipped.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
If we don't keep poking the bear, it might get the idea in its head that we're afraid of it.
I think we should, World wide, everyday a cartoon of Muhammad getting ridiculed.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I've seen many cartoons depicting Jesus, but I can't recall many protests or people getting killed for it.
The problem is that it draws a certain kind of crowd and the bashing soon spreads to unrelated topics.
Damnit, the terrorists won!
I don't think anyone is shocked. The shock for me comes when the suggestion is made that we should do a little self-censorship. Yeah, sure... this is just the one taboo we have to respect... this is the only bit of sharia law we infidels have to obey, right?
Except it doesn't end there. It can never end there. I mean hell, the hadith have in the past been widely interpreted to forbid all artwork of animals and humans. They've given up that battle... for now. But rest assured, they have not forgotten. None of this barbarous shit in any of the Abrahamic faiths can ever be truly forgotten, because all sitting there in the unalterable book waiting for someone to decide to take it literally again."Respect" for religious insanity is a continuous spectrum of masochistic self-censorship trailing down into an infinite abyss. Or do you really, honestly believe that ISIS's current set of laws is the most extreme interpretation possible?
It's possible to resist the scaremongering of the right (no, neither ISIS nor any of the other bearded fuckwits are in any position to do us significant harm at this very moment ) while still acknowledging that over the long run this is a zero sum game with no possibility of common ground.
We cannot share a planet with these people. So yes, let's keep making the bastards angry.
You clearly know almost nothing about him
He's definitely one, the others are something else and something worse because they are prepared to murder him just because he is spouting his beliefs.
Happy now? Or did I disappoint you be being a real person that thinks both sides in this issue are deplorable and not a handy strawman on one side or the other?
Come on now, if you try very hard to get people angry why the shock when it happens?
I am in no way defending either the loud xenophobic fascist Wilders or anyone that wants to take a shot at him.
Drawing a cartoon of Muhammad that violates the extremists' sensibilities is trivial. AFAIK a stick figure labeled by name or "the prophet" will do. Sending these people into a murderous rage is unbelievably easy, and that's the point: it illustrates just how dangerous to (and incompatible with western society) they really are.
gunmen-kill-12-wound-7-at-french-magazine-hq 1300+ comments
pope-francis-there-are-limits-to-freedom-of-expression 900 comments
So yes, we really want this kind of discussion on Slashdot.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Seems like the event was a success. While I generally disapprove of being intentionally rude, sometimes it has to be done to prevent people using their thin skin as a weapon. It's an absolute necessity when people go about threatening to kill people who don't self-censor.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
So, are you suggesting that they should switch religions each round to reach all the murderous nutjobs? Sounds like a plan!
Ever been there? The state is beautiful . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Seriously, if we could get a few of these violent loonies to out themselves daily to suicide by cop... Every day.
Obviously I don't want to provoke a terrorist attack... but dead terrorists is in the common good.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now. And the idiot Muslims who think it's necessary to shoot everybody who doesn't have their opinion. We don't live in the Middle Ages anymore you idiots. And if you like killing so much why don't you kill some of your own kind? You're very good at that, we see that daily on TV.
And now get off my lawn, all of you! Crazy children.
-- Cheers!
To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens: "They want to be martyrs? Well, good--we're here to help."
I think this would work in a Texan accent, too.
Perhaps, but Islam needs a good bashing, all religions do, but currently there's one religion that is far more active in the "oppression and violence" arena, so lets bash it until we get a war or they go away.
Ask your self how long is it until the disenfranchised youths in the ghettos find their local radicalized mosque, or you have to live under someone else concept of right and wrong.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The others aren't just prepared to murder Wilders. They want to abolish democracy and replace it with sharia law, and kill the Untermenschen i.e. the unbelievers. I don't think fighting for freedom and democracy is as deplorable as fighting against it. Of course, there are many useful idiots who think they can live peacefully with islamists in the same country, believing that it we respect them, they'll respect us. Big mistake.
scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands.
Like rain on your wedding day.
I only registered so I could disable D2. Ugh.
Don't take this the wrong way, but can you bugger off and take with you everyone who has parroted this again and again? I mean fucking hell, you have a 5 digit ID. Have you been doing this for every single religious/political article for the past 15 years? Don't you ever get bored of it?
Political discussions among geeks are simply more interesting than among most other crowds. I believe it's because we are by nature more willing to delve into the gritty details. Like any subculture, there are biases and stupid memes but these flaws are at least occasionally point out and debated... it's not that we don't have an echo chamber here, it's that ours at least has a skylight.
it's not the eternal bliss...it's the birkaless virgins (infidel)!
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Until recently you could get punished by law in most western countries for those acts. It's not so strange that some cultures still think that way and provoking them won't help.
Point of proof:
http://all-that-is-interesting...
You might recall that during the whole "draw Mohammad" controversy South Park took it on. While the were not allowed to show Mohammad at all, they did show people literally shitting on Jesus, the American flag, and so on. They received zero threats in relation to that, there was no action taken against them.
It's not like Christians didn't know either, it is a major syndicated TV show that is produced in the US.
"two armed gunman were shot and killed"... by whom? Who were they? After reading the article it seems clear that the two gunmen killed were religious fanatics, and the killers were police officers who were defending the event. This should be in the summary, I think
It may not be hard to do, but deliberate trolling is definitely what is going on.
It looks like it's counterproductive and just adds more fuel to those who want to recruit more radicals. "See this thing in Texas kids, it means all of America hates us - so sign up now to teach them what we taught the Russians in Afganistan". That's how it goes. Stupid in every level (especially the bit about the Russians but they do believe it) but still just adding fuel to the flames for a bit of personal publicity aided by useful idiots.
Just a simple organised flag burning should do the trick.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Just organize these events regularly and you'll smoke out the crazy jihadists.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing. If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
You don't even have to mock a religion. Look here: http://youtu.be/pKcJ-0bAHB4
-- Cheers!
Organizing a deliberately provocative event is a clear statement of support for free speech. A clear statement that allowing potentially offensive speech is essential to a free society. Other reactions to Charlie Hebdo - how we have to tread carefully and avoid offense - are utterly wrong.
Terrorists are barbarians, and are a direct threat to civilization. Apparently, the Texan reaction to barbarism is "bring it on".
More power to Texas. I hope other places find the courage to hold similar events.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
"is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?"
Yes.
But you won't like the answer and it's not politically correct. Ergo, our current political establishment refuses to even admit its existence.
You really can't see any difference? Then you are just being obtuse. Yes if you tried to trespass in a religious building and be offensive, there'd be a response. In particular, they'd tell you to leave and call the police. However this was not in a Mosque, no Muslims were forced to attend. This was something people were doing on their own. However the crazies felt the need to respond.
I've heard about precisely zero cases of Jews going after pig BBQs in the US. Seems they are not very concerned about what you are doing on your own. If you don't respect their religion, oh well, so it goes.
Stephen Fry put it very well:
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."
Charlie Hebdo made more fun of Jesus and Mary than Mohammed, yet guess who went in and killed people?
Oh, it happens. Protests, at least. http://www.praguepost.com/news/14559-region-photo-show-sparks-religious-uproar-in-serbian-capital.html:
"Stop failing the Turing test!" -- Dilbert
"Organi[z]e a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing." \n\n This has already been proven untrue. Remember when they put Jesus in a jar of piss and displayed it around the nation, calling it art? People were outraged, but no Christian harmed anyone because of it.
"Putting a bullet in someone" doesn't necessarily follow "getting angry".
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now.
Why shouldn't we provoke them? It's a nice, relatively controlled environment with security guards who were able to take them out. We provoke them, they try to murder us, we kill them first. It seems like a very nice system, really. We really should start setting up more jihadi honeypots.
The alternative is what... having these lunatics walking around in our society, on the *brink* of being murderers but not quite there yet, ready to snap on some other occasion when there isn't a SWAT team nearby to take care of them? I'm not really seeing the upside to your plan.
(Obviously, this can be taken too far--the moronic Iraq War was more than just a minor provocation, obviously. But we're talking about drawings here... not dropping bombs.)
I'm was actually surprised they got out of that one alive when I saw it. It's also kinda depressing in that it showed up every southern redneck stereotype, they set up the stereotype just for a laugh and then "the boys" turn up...
Sometimes it can be expected. This is one of those times.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing.
No, you wouldn't. You really, really wouldn't.
If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
Please stop spouting nonsense: http://www.theonion.com/articl... (NSFW)
I suppose it's not surprise to find you defending the intentions of the gunmen, considering you are one of the idiot shit-fucks who thinks a picture of a women's face is pornographic. Obviously, you have Islamic sympathies in your belief towards women. It's not much of a stretch to accept that you also believe in murdering people who don't follow your party's line.
Actually, you are wrong on practically every point. But, considering you have the intelligence of a 10-day old piece of shit, that's no surprise at all.
Calling someone's dad a poopy-head is not the same as yelling Fire! in a crowded venue. Drawing a picture of Mohammed is the former, not the latter.
Anytime your speech harms no one, but yields a response aimed to murder innocent people, you know you're right and the response is wrong.
You didn't read the Onion article? You really should. If you're especially prudish, you can disable image loading in your browser first.
The thing is Texas is a case of people drawing a historical figure and other people responding by trying to shoot them. Please see if you can grasp the difference. If you can't manage it, try reading the wikipedia article on Aniconism in Islam ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ). It's not like there's one huge commandment in the Quran "DO NOT PICTURE THE PROPHET"--this is an extremely thorny issue and by "respecting" the extremists who insist on this absolute ban (even amongst us infidels), you are allowing them to build a slippery slope for their next grievance. Criminal iconoclasm as mandated by Islam has historically (and currently...see ISIS) a very big problem and here you are out defending the hurt feelings of the extremist philistine Muslims instead of the moderate reformist Muslims. Well done!
As an aside, the man who coined "shouting fire in a crowded theater" was an American judge who was imprisoning anti-war activists for the "shouting fire" crime of peacefully passing out leaflets. Your cliched analogy was much more apt than you probably realized.
It's a very strange analogy. If you want a perfectly apt analogy, pleas see the Onion article I linked.
"Oh, it happens. Protests, at least. http://www.praguepost.com/news... [archive.org]:"
Surely you can understand the difference between someone protesting, and someone trying to kill someone? Maplethorpe had people sticking crucifxes up their ass, and there was plenty of talk and uproar and other things.
Someone's opinion should never be grounds for killing them. Someone making someone uncomfortable should never be grounds for killing them. Someone making someone feel offended should never be grounds for killing them.
Being offended or uncomfortable is not an argument, though both the left and right try to make it one when it suits them. Are there some whackos in the christian faith who can decide to do those things? Yes. Are there a WHOLE LOT MORE of them in Islam right now? Unequivocally.
I also expect you to eat feces, but that doesn't make taking a dump wrong.
You don't always get a response like this from someone, even with Islam. There have been a lot of draw Muhammad events, and relatively few incidents end like this. I can't even recall a single event like this (where Christians are willing to murder over blasphemy) happening for Christianity in my lifetime. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it does seem like Islam has the top score for avenging blasphemy through murder (at least recently).
its "prophet" who married a 6 year old.
Oh please. Political marriages of young girls were common in those days. He waited until she was nine to consummate it.
Ummmmm no they weren't. It was one of many scandals that pedophile Mohammad explained away with "Allah told me to do it". Mohammad had a "revelation" to marry her.
It simply isn't a case that "That's what they did back then". The Koran very explicitly states that Muslims must follow the "sunnah" or example of Mohammad. It is in the Koran so that means FOREVER! These are recorded in what are called the hadiths (orally transmitted information about Mohammad's life and actions) . So Muslims are OBLIGED to do everything contained in hadiths that are sahih (trusted). Mohammad was recorded literally dozens of times as having sex with a little 9 year old girl in these sahih hadiths. Ever wondered why ISIS, the Taliban and other fundamentalist Muslims are into marrying little girls. Just following the example of pedophile Mohammad which is FOREVER.
So marrying and having sex with little 9 year old girls like Aysha is a "perfect" example for Muslims THEN NOW AND FOREVER.
It gets even more disgusting and worse!!!!!! Mohammad was even more depraved than "merely" having vaginal sex with little 9 year old girls.
He was performing "Muta Kathat" on Aisha when she was 6 when he first married her. BTW, "Muta Kathat" was anal sex and masturbation between the thighs.
Ask a Muslim about "Muta Kathat". They either will honestly not know what it is (fewer than one or two percent have ever read the hadiths or Mohammad's biography the sira.. only about 10% of Muslims have ever read the Quran!) or they will lie about it with the hope that you didn't actually check out what was written (and Islam obliges Muslims to lie 'if of help to Islam' - rather difficult to get converts when your founder in the modern day would be on a sexual offenders register or with a prison file stamped "never to be released").
Not only was he performing pedophile sex acts with a little 6 year old girl (yes, it's 6, not 9!!!), he was performing pedophile acts on little boys, The hadiths explain that one away with some nonsense about the "miraculous and soothing effects" of Mohammad's saliva.
Further, Mohammad was a necrophile, having sex with his dead aunt Fatima "to make her a mother of the believers".
He even was a cross-dresser, dressing up in the clothes of his wives. His favorite dressing up was in the clothing of the above mentinoed Aysha. You may start asking questions of Mohammad being married for more than 10 years with more than 10 wives yet only achieving one child!
I didn't even discuss other parts of Mohamamd's "achievements" such as his rapes, his murders of old women poets for writing satires, his genocides against other tribes or his banditry.
No, I'm not "anti-muslim". I feel that Muslims are in fact the biggest victims if Islam. Imagine belonging to a cult (yes, Islam fulfills all the academic criteria of being a cult such as death if you leave it, exclusivity, avoiding association and marriage with non-members, substantial efforts into recruitment and so on) whose Koran tells you that family members are OBLIGED to shun you if you leave and even tells its members to kill you if you don't recant on your decision to be an apostate. Please take your bigoted "raghead" comments elsewhere (I didn't say "racist", Islam is not an ethnicity, it is a "faith").
Posting as an Anonymous Coward for good reason. If you think that fundamentalist Muslims get upset about cartoons, you should see them when you point out explicitly where in the Koran, the hadiths and the sira the things I mentioned above are said.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015...
It may be from jihadwatch,org but the info inside the article, especially the info from the Police " ... that the gunmen were trying to enter the building to shoot the place up when they were stopped ... " reveals how much those moslems hate you guys, the infidels
All they ever want is for all of you to either join them and become a mujahid, or be slaughtered
I don't disagree that this was provocative on purpose - the merits thereof I'll leave for some other day - but the situations presented aren't comparable.
This was a meeting held in some random location (a community center, with permission) - not inside a mosque.
Your freedom of speech expression apparently explicitly puts the BBQ in a synagogue. Unless you somehow got permission to do so, it's likely that you would be trespassing and - with the smoke from the BBQ - damaging property.
You could certainly hold your BBQ outside the synagogue, but then it would probably be just a BBQ. I'd imagine there's hot dog carts nearby synagogues in NYC, for example, without any particular issue.
No seriously, those fuckers were shot and killed and despite having the surprise effect, and all they did was shoot.... somebody in the ankle. I am missing something or they were totally utterly untrained with the used weapon.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Hear hear.
People with very little to lose take more risks than people with a lot to lose, and care less about possible negative outcomes.
Genetic make-up is a less than zero factor here.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
If you think that this is the one and only bit of Sharia law that us infidels will ever be asked to voluntarily obey, you need to read a fucking newspaper once in a while.
Aniconism in Islam ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) doesn't begin or end at "don't draw the prophet." There are moderate Muslims out there who are willing to defy and ignore the entire ridiculous concept, but fortunately for the extremists we have you out here reminding us that not wanting to follow an iron age interpretation of the Sharia is "childish." And if people like you somehow win this debate (I'm not deluded enough to think that this could actually happen--I'm not Gleck Beck or something), in 50 years we'll have the spiritual successors of al-Qaeda and ISIS telling us that a visual depiction of ANY human is offensive to them. And the spiritual successors of people like you will tell us we're childish to poke the bear by daring to draw a stick figures.
Don't believe me? Pick up a fucking history book. There's a reason why traditional Islamic art is a bunch of abstract swirling lines instead of people and animals.
our freedom of speech expression apparently explicitly puts the BBQ in a synagogue. Unless you somehow got permission to do so, it's likely that you would be trespassing and - with the smoke from the BBQ - damaging property.
You could certainly hold your BBQ outside the synagogue, but then it would probably be just a BBQ. I'd imagine there's hot dog carts nearby synagogues in NYC, for example, without any particular issue.
And just to make the point CLEAR...
EVEN if you broke into the synagogue and even if you were trespassing and even if the smoke caused property damage...
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS OK TO KILL PEOPLE OVER IT.
Ok, I know you get that, but I'm replying to you because... well, you're there...
QUIT USING THE SUBJECT LINE AS PART OF YOUR COMMENTS!! It was a bad idea when the first person started it and it's still a bad idea!
Don't blame the commenters, blame the Slashdot editors for introducing subject lines to begin with.
If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
That's like trying to rob the donut joint across the street from a police station...
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Germanic people are a tiny minority in Latvia - the tiny rest of the former upper class. Baltic people are descendent of the lowest class (farmers, fishers) and are most closely related to Slavs. Sad, but true.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Netherlands gun violence is high by European standards
And guess who is doing the shooting...
https://www.google.com/search?...
Those Moroccan kids here in the "gangs" are NOT MUSLIMS
Bold Faced Liesshould never be tolerated, so ... lemme get you guys the link ...
... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=percentag...
There
Click on the link above, son
Them Moroccan gangbangers are not moslems? Or you prefer to categorize them as Buddhists / Hindus, or even ... Christians?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Sorry, but no. The ancient Greeks are not related to the current ones (who are ethnically mostly Turkish) in any way. Besides, your Christian religion was a hindrance for Europe for many centuries, not a blessing. It directly contributed to the downfall of the Roman empire, hundreds of wars and lost knowledge.
This is so funny about you nationalists, no matter from where. You are convinced that you are a blood legacy of some master race, but the reality is usually very different.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Here's my drawing of Mohammad.
Table-ized A.I.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing.
This turns out not to be the case. That dude who got tax money for an "art" piece that consisted of a crucifix immersed in urine is still walking around, with no contract on his head that I've ever heard of.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It's the percentage of those 'someones' and the response of the rest that is revealing.
You forgot the fact, that jihadists kill people all the time in the middle east. Even people of the same faith. That's a much more serious offence that any drawing.
First, they didn't organize this contest in the East.
Second, the even would have ended without blood, if there were no crazies. I think the proper course of action is really this. Flush the crazies out before they take your country over. Probably there is not even a need of an actual drawing contest, just the rumor is enough to draw some flies on the shit.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
If this were in Europe, it would be: "30 people shot by 2 gunmen for religious reasons. Police is negotiating with them". I'm European. Most of us are groveling weaklings. We will go extinct. Barbarians will destroy our civilization. Too much socialism will kill us. USA, you must keep your guns, you must defend yourselves! I like Texas, people carry some balls over there.
Nah nah. How many people shot at piss-jesus showings?
If you want to get Christians shooting, show gay porn... well, they'll shoot if they aren't trying to sneak in with a tub of lard and a backpack full of kleenex.
Naw, the difference between them and us, is that they have countries where they LYNCH apostates, and the lynching parties are legal.
In Germany, the only legally available editions of Mein Kampf are those that include academic annotations that point out what a batshit insane genocidal shithead Adolf was.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You'll get signs and yelling. You won't get assassins.
Stop trying to draw parallels where none exist.
Please. This was an event held for the advertised purpose of this contest at a neutral location open to the public. If muslims don't like it, they can simply not attend.
You're seriously comparing that to someone going (what, tresspassing?) into a synagogue and forcing an activity into others' faces? Anyone doing that would be forcing others to go out of their way to avoid them.
Alright, so we've established that most jews probably wouldn't tolerate a lot of activities in their place of worship. But they don't give a shit if you do it elsewhere, including at public events. The difference is that certain muslims won't tolerate (under penalty of instant death) some benign activities anywhere on the planet.
You were *apparently* comparing the drawing of a historical figure on private property to breaking and entering a Jewish place of worship and barbequing a pig. That seemed to be to be a sort of weird analogy, a sign that some piece of your reasoning was mis-calibrated somewhere along the way. It wasn't exactly the most polite thing I've ever written in my life but it wasn't meant to be some kind of vile ad-hominem attack.
I am saying this sincerely, in a non-mocking tone--recalibrate you view of what these events actually are. Yes, Wilders and Gellar are asshats, but I am suggesting that you evaluate their asshatery in the context of the cornucopia of human douchebags in the country. Yes, I'm sure the hurt feelings of Muslims are real--but try and evaluate the inflmatory nature of these cartoons in the context of the Onion cartoon I set you, or the censored South Park episode, or the Piss Christ controversy from the 90s, etc.
Recalibration is something you do with a tool that you know isn't broken but is for some reason giving weird readings. If you want an actual "fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck your dog and please fuck off and die" type of insult then I'm sure you can get one from someone else around here--just keep on defending the viewpoint of the jihadis instead of defending people like Maajid Nawaz, a liberal *Muslim* who does not believe there is anything wrong with drawing Muhammad. He posted a picture of Muhammad to show his solidarity with cartoonists and he received death threats from Muslim jihadis because of it. By sticking up for the right of jihadis to be offended, you are turning your back on genuine moderate reformers like him.
Recalibrate. I'm sure you're not a stupid or bad person... just, recalibrate.
This is a deadly intolerant religion
... as opposed to the other kind?
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion
The point of Muslim iconoclasm is that Mohammud is merely God's messenger and is not divine himself. The Muslims who are "offended" are the ones who don't actually understand why they have the rule in the first place. And why the rule doesn't apply to non-Muslims in the first place.
(Ironically much like Christian iconoclasm while it lasted.)
Exactly. It's not so much "followers of Islam have violent reactions to being offended" as it is "historically oppressed people from third world shitholes have violent reactions to being offended". If you're trying to compare how Muslims react to other modern religions, you have to compare modern versions of Islam, like that of third generation immigrants in western countries. The Muslims I know get offended by offensive things in exactly the same ways a Christian would.
That was possibly the most stupid comment I've ever read on the Internet.
Please show us where they said that. I'm curious!
-- Cheers!
Or in some places gay, you'll be shot by Christians because they think you are doing something god forbids.
It's not the religion Islam. It's religion, full stop.
When religion replaces thought and proffers a higher power to give license to your actions, and those edicts are only required to be believed to be right, then you get this.
And it's not Islam. Hell, even Bhuddists kill those with the wrong faith. It's the acceptance that belief is somehow sufficient to determine the right actions.
It's religion. Full stop.
You will get 'a response' but that response will depend on the religion of the offendee.
Islam = bombings, shootings, stabbings
all other religions = slogans, placards, letters to the editor.
Islam is violent. Wake up to the truth!
It was acute lead poisoning i Paris, Copenhagen and Garland. It was the wrong thing in all three places.
In this case, yes:
http://www.theonion.com/articl...
One of the best pieces of satire ever created. Also the single greatest case ever made for the necessity of both blasphemy and obscenity.
It's a beautiful state. A variety of climates and scenery. Go Here! http://circuitoftheamericas.co...
Reliance upon the government to protect you after you have insulted someone is not freedom. Freedom requires courage, and sometimes the price of courage is high. Ed Snowden is my hero - he paid the price.
A protest isn't the same as murder.
Itzly wrote: "I can't recall many protests or people getting killed for it". Your reply implies that that I shouldn't have reacted to the word "protests", only to the much stronger "killed". Yet, the fact that Itzly wrote it implies that I should have read it and registered the impression that even protests are almost unheard of. This is a way of sneaking poor arguments into a discussion by attaching a much harder-to-dispute statement to it.
"Stop failing the Turing test!" -- Dilbert
Which Mary? Because if you mean Mag then yes. If it's just sodomy in general, seen Romans raping him while on the cross. If you meant incest type, no, since honestly can't say before your post I've ever actually looked at this.
If you're wanting to claim though that Christianity's significant figures aren't subject to ridicule and mockery and degradation, well, you're wrong.
Welcome to the internet, Rule 34 is always enforced. Rule 63, optional.
Mein Kampf is not banned in Germany, it is just all rights belong to the federal state of Bavaria, and they have decided not to publish the book. That copyright will expire late this year, so things should get interesting.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
So..... these guys set up an event supposedly to protect free speech and all, and then they invite a guy "who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands."
I can't put my finger on it but something here doesn't fit :P
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
These clowns shot first, hit a guy in the leg, then the cops opened up and took them out? Sounds like a good day at the shooting range. Honestly, fuck these wankers. For once American guns were in the right place at the right time where they could do some good.
It's not so strange that some cultures still think that way and provoking them won't help.
Of course it will. It will help us find the craziest members so we can shoot them, before they shoot us. And the sad thing is that this isn't even fucking hyperbole. It's the gospel truth, it's fact, it was illustrated right here.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're right, you have the right to be discourteous. That doesn't speak well of you, but you do have that right.
"I am in no way defending either the loud xenophobic fascist Wilders or anyone that wants to take a shot at him.",
Saying that doesn't make it true, and it isn't. By saying that they shouldn't have done what they did, you are blaming the victim. Thus, you are defending the actions of the gunmen, by placing blame on the victims. Stop it, because you're really being an offensive piece of shit and we must either ignore you or respond aggressively to your failure to defend the first amendment.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
and my Christian religion was united with the wisdom of my ancestors and created Europe (and America)
The Christian religion created America in the same way that cancer created chemotherapy. Now, what is the treatment for our capitalism?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The most gun crazy place in the US. The Alamo is a Shrine? Really?
Cinema burned down cocktail molotov in a full cinema in paris. I cannot recall if there were dead though.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Currently, we kill bears that show no fear of people. I like the way you think.
Some things need to be said...
T let's place it in Texas, where the kids are taught to shoot a gun before they can read.
You've never been to Texas, have you?
The answer is, because they can. Also, they're in the desert. Texas is almost entirely desert, FYI.
Demonstrably not true.
Killing terrorists, especially like this where people are deliberately setting up a situation where they draw out people with these views, is a brilliant way to make more terrorists.
It's also a brilliant way to make less terrorists a short time later. Can't say that I approve of baiting people like this but I also can't say I'm overly sad that the world has a few less lunatics in it.
Seriously, Texas has to be pretty close to the top of the list of stupid places to go in guns-ablaze over a perceived insult. These are people who have been known to put gun racks on golf carts. Even if they survive the attack Texas has the death penalty and isn't afraid to use it.
Protests are almost unheard of.
Kind of like the AFDI.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
This is the best story of the day, comment-wise.
Hatred of conservative Texas, hatred of guns, yet still the absolute intolerance of religion and strict belief in the first amendment all combining into a cognitive dissonance (to use a favorite term around here) that must be blowing people's minds.
I love it.
True, if you define recently as about 200 years ago.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
modern versions of Islam
One of the big problems of Islam, is there can be no modern version. The Quran as written 1400 years ago is the perfect word of God and any suggestion that it is wrong or needs changing is blasphemy, resulting in the suggesters death.
... ever. Unfortunately, Islam will only cease being an issue to tolerant, progressive western societies when there are no Muslims left, or they are all corralled into their own little spaces, where they can wage Jihad on one another without affecting anyone else.
Islam needs a reformation, but because of the above reason, that cannot and will not happen,
Fiat currency is a shared myth. It works because so many believe it has value.
For comparison, you can still legally marry a 12 year old girl in the US.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
How can you run a 'free speech event' where you headline someone who advocates banning a book?
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I live in Texas, and we actually had an exhibit like that a few years come to a local university with exhibits similar to "Piss Christ", three hand grenades symbolizing the Holy Trinity, and other things intended to troll Christians.
Guess what? The worst I saw was someone shaking their head as they passed the display. The Christians went on with their life, and the exhibit went on to another state.
I will say this: Take the most lunatic fringe Christians... Do you see them trying to raid an atheist center? If it did happen, it would be front page news. Yes, you do have some fringes talking about Hell... but they are not going to send you there, unless you shoot first.
This is actually a really good idea. Stage events like this to lure psychotic murderers out, then eliminate the threat. It keeps innocent people safe and saves on tax dollars from not having to keep the religious lunatics in prison - everybody wins.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
One of the biggest problems in any polygamous society is getting rid of young men. Every man with 4 wives leaves 3 angry, young, horny men in his wake who got no wives. So Islam came up with the perfect solution, Martyrdom! Just blow yourself up in some mall and get all the virgins you want!
Dumb motherfuckers.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
The others aren't just prepared to murder Wilders. They want to abolish democracy and replace it with sharia law, and kill the Untermenschen i.e. the unbelievers.
Please don't try and conflate Islamic fundamentalism and the Nazis.
Untermenschen does not mean "the unbelievers" it means "the under-man"
The American who first used the term in the context of inherent inferiority, which is how we understand it, said thusly:
"This term is The Under-Man the man who measures under the standards of capacity and adaptability imposed by the social order in which he lives."
That same year, he also published The New World of Islam where, if you glance at the chapter titles, you'll notice he calls Muslims "Bolsheviks."
Unsurprisingly, this is the same label that the Nazis attached to the Jews in an effort to slur them.
(And no, Bolshevism and communism are not the same as national socialism. The Nazis weren't commies.)
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
The others aren't just prepared to murder Wilders. They want to abolish democracy and replace it with sharia law, and kill the Untermenschen i.e. the unbelievers. I don't think fighting for freedom and democracy is as deplorable as fighting against it. Of course, there are many useful idiots who think they can live peacefully with islamists in the same country, believing that it we respect them, they'll respect us. Big mistake.
Geert Wilders seems to define every single moslem that walks this earth as a violent Islamist. That's about as stupid as claiming that every US American that walks this earth is a lyncing rope and shotgun carrying racist Ku Klux Klan member who spends his weekends thundering down the highway in a coal rolling pickup. Campaigning to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands because of the actions of a few militant Islamists is about as intelligent as campaigning to have the bible banned in the USA because of the actions of the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. There are and always will be useful morons who lap up the kind of mindless non-sense spouted by the likes of Geert Wilders and his polar opposites in the Islamist movement but they are all wrong. Anybody who takes an entire religion/ethnic-group/nationality and puts it in a drawer marked criminal/terrorist/sub-human/not-chosen-by-god or some other bullshit category like that has taken leave of their senses and that's phrasing it very, very politely.
1. Draw stickman. ...
2. Add beard and turban.
3.
4. Prophet!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
People kill for different reasons now. Now we send people to kill because of oil, not because of religion anymore.
However it was always about power over somebody else.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I'd like to ensure that both sides of this suffer maximum casualties. Ending up with only one bat-shit crazy fundamentalist cult doesn't help.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
And others (like Wilders) believe they can live in a country where one religion is forbidden. Big mistake.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Because so many people have been killed over Piss Christ.
Moron.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Surely you can understand the difference between someone protesting, and someone trying to kill someone?
You would be amazed at how quickly one can morph into the other.
A Protest is a perfectly acceptable method of expressing a positions/opinions. In fact, the Bill of Rights explicitly protects it. There is nothing extraordinary about a protest...whether it's over Piss Christ or the fact that a University is going to start charging for chocolate milk.
You might as well point out that people use Ketchup on their hot dogs.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
So when we're prepared, it's a conspiracy. When we're not, we're stupid.
If you fire a gun in Texas, prepare for return fire.
Yeah.. unfortunately something being "possible" isn't really useful to the conversation.
Something being "possible" with no evidence that it actually happened certainly isn't strong enough to draw an equivalence between different groups of zealots.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing. If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
A carload of Christians must have pulled up and busted some down-mods into this post. The guy uses British spelling but he's absolutely correct. Organizing a "Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas would be a suicide attempt.
This just hate-mongering talking points from some silly rapture-bation site. European nobles used to do it 1000 years after Mohammed did regularly, the reason people judge the past by today's standards is for petty proselytization purposes, a modern human being can recognize that these old religions are just showing signs of being out of date with modern society, pointing the flaws out of one tarnished the whole.
Doesn't matter which ones try to put clown makeup on to look better, we all know, deep down, that the "religion" circus industry is over.
Denying that there is some like between the fact that "young black males" are disproportionally represented in murder statistics...both as the victim and perpetrator is, in and of itself, racist.
How 'bout Vietnamese?
Russians? They simply HAVE to be commies.
They all came from commie countries at the time and as such they all must still be commies.
Oh... wait...
They left those countries cause they didn't like conditions there and clearly "being commie among other commies" wasn't their topmost priority.
Or it could be that you're talking out of your ass cause your head is overflowing with shit?
Don't you worry, there's a solution for that too.
Note how that link is about as relevant as yours? Actually... Maybe a bit more as you could put that on your head...
BTW... did you know that when you link vague, unrelated and loaded statements typed into google - that proves nothing?
But it still makes you look like a dick?! No? Well... don't thank me yet. There's more.
Like when you do that double quoting thing, it means that you are informed of and support the point of the asshole above doing the same linking to vague, unrelated and loaded statements and the rest of his dickery.
Which results in most of those results "supporting his theory" being from racist blogs?
So, you're not only full of shit - you're a racist dick by association. Good on ya!
As for Netherlands... Well... for one, your underlying premise is bullshit.
BTW, that's synonymous with "bald faced lying", FYI. So is quoting it, when you clearly show that you COULD check the factuality of those claims but... well... you know...
Anyway, that whole "Netherlands gun violence is high by European standards" thing - that's bullshit.
If we compare gun homicides they are actually rather median and mode for western and northern Europe.
Also, quite negligible and non issue. One guy could rack up twice those numbers in an afternoon.
You wouldn't call that symptomatic now, would you?
Anyway... on to stupid things as Reagan might say.
Sweden - annual firearm homicides total - 2010: 18; Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People - 2010: 0.19,
Norway: 2; 0.04,
Finland: 14; 0.26,
Denmark: 11; 0.20,
Netherlands: 33; 0.20,
Belgium: 36; 0.33,
France: 127; 0.20,
Germany: 51; 0.06,
UK: 33; 0.05.
Feel free to compare later data too, where there is any across all the countries for the given year.
And where there are no outliers like that thing in Norway in 2011, where a lone crazed religious crusader might fudge the statistics of the entire country.
So... Now that we have those 33 deaths by "shooting"...
Onus probandi dictates that you prove your bullshit claims that you've taken up to defend, that:
- ALL those deaths are caused by Moroccan immigrants, i.e. "Them Moroccan gangbangers" as you like to call them,
- further, once you prove that ALL those murders are committed by Moroccan immigrants, that ALL those murderers were also Muslims.
BTW, it's spelled with an I... just so you know... Boy you sure are learning shit today.
Meanwhile, back in reality, back in 2009. there were 341528 people of Moroccan origin in Netherlands.
Meaning that, even if you do dig up those facts, at best you get to say you're not... how you put it... bald face liar.
But your racial and religious prejudice will still shine like a beacon of rectalism.
Cause even if you do manage to scrounge up the data supporting your position, and ALL those murders really WERE committed by Moroccan Muslims - that's still 0.0096% of Moroccan population in Netherlands.
Or do you also argue that EVERYONE in USA is a child molester?
After all... 2012 numbers of reported cases of child se
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Wait a sec. Is the 'discourteous' part the "Fuck you!", or saying it in the subject line?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
How about burn them all?
http://crooksandliars.com/susi...
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
>I can't even recall a single event like this (where Christians are willing to murder over blasphemy) happening for Christianity in my lifetime
1988 Last Temptation of Christ, Saint Michael Theater, Paris
You are either very very young, or you didn't even try.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Organize a movie about possibly unflattering views of Jesus and maybe you'll get your movie theater burned. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10...
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I see your Piss Christ, and I raise you a Last Temptation of Christ at Saint Michael's Cinema in Paris.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
It might take them a while, but forced submission does work. Forced submission has worked throughout history, and it's working today.
Three stages of Jihad.
1) when in tiny minority, say you just want peace.
2) when in a more sizable minority, demand special privileges for Islam.
3) when in a majority (or close), take the gloves off
It is a brilliant strategy that has worked liked all hell for 1400 years, and is still working.
Two quick notes:
1. I spent ten minutes looking but I couldn't find a youtube clip of this, sorry. He probably phrased it a little better, but that was the gist of it.
2. I really like how this quote can be used to support either argument here--those who say we should be fighting the jihadis, and those who argue that we are simply creating more of them. I think the only sane position is a mixture of these two--clearly, Iraq was a disaster from start to finish (sorry, Hitch), but equally clearly we must not flinch from fighting jihadis when an opportunity presents itself to do so without pissing away trillions of dollars or killing thousands of civilians in collateral damage. (And it should go without saying that certainly shouldn't be shying away from the first amendment at moments like these, nevermind the fact that a few odious asshats happened to be in attendance.)
http://www.reuters.com/article...
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/1...
Yeah no one freaked out and made death threats or anything.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Yes, because fire bombing a theater for Jesus is so much better. http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10...
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I grew up in the North and was taught how to shoot by the Boy Scouts at a relatively early age.
In this regard, there's nothing that remarkable about Texas really.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If there were thousands of such events that Lampooned not just Muhammed, but all religious trappings, each year.... would this sort of lunacy of attacking people over cartoons become less common?
If the scope of the event was big enough would become more of the norm throughout the world?
Seems like killing people over imagery should be what is not tolerated in a civilized world.
That sort of thing is what needs to be extincted.
On the other hand, I've actually been to Paris and I have seen for myself what kind of weaponry they routinely carry around. You would think that with that kind of firepower they could easily put down any nonsense.
A lot of noise is made about "American gun culture" but it's the Europeans that routinely carry serious firepower around their cities.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If a drawing of the prophet is so offensive, then close yourself off from western ideas.
The west does not share you views, and you have no right to force those views on the west.
That is the difference, and it's a huge difference.
Murdering people because they express honest opinions is, almost entirely, a Muslim thing.
BTW: you do not need to "Defecate on the Qur'an" or anything like that to send Muslims into murderous outrage. Any civil, honest, criticism is all it takes.
There are very few Maroccan kids from secular households. They are Muslims in the same way most Catholics are Catholics.
They play along with the charade once in a while, they come from a Muslim household and once they grow up they get more serious about the charade.
I can't speak for Jesus cartoons, but if there was a cartoon depicting a Jewish stereotype (say, a long nosed, fat, corrupt banker hording money from honest non-Jewish folks), I would protest it, but wouldn't kill over it. Would I march against such a cartoon being published or call for the cartoonist to be fired? Yes, but that would be my using my Freedom of Speech to counter the cartoonist's Freedom of Speech. No matter how offensive I found the cartoon, though, I wouldn't march into the guy's office and kill him.
Protests are fine. Especially if they are done peacefully. (Hint: If you're looting random stores or destroying random people's property along your "protest", you aren't protesting.) Saying "I take offense to that" is a perfectly fine reaction. It's when you add "and I'm going to kill you for offending me" that you've crossed the line.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Give me a Kickstarter to make this a bimonthly event in Texas and you'll have my money.
If somebody drawing the prophet is offensive to you that you have to murder people, then there is something wrong with you, and your religion.
Your religious rules apply to those in your religion, and nobody else. You do not have the right to force people to submit to your religion.
I feel no need to murder people mock atheism. No "honeypot" would send me into murderous outrage.
You kill the ones who get so comfortable around humans that they start seeing them as prey.
Typical pseudo-scholastic approach to Islam which is ironically peddled by our own scholars - thankfully the minority, but the braying of the ass always seems to attract the most attention.
I really recommend a book by a chap called "Misquoting Muhammad" Johnathan AC Brown who is a professor of Islam at a university in America.
It will answer your questions about the marriage to Aisha - not sure about the cross-dressing part you may have to give some corroboration for that one.
The key is look at the world in a relative manner, not absolute one - was the marriage in those days (and for the hundreds of years to follow) considered acceptable?
The answer is yes. The keyword here is anachronism.
You will see in history that as values changes attitudes then change. Mohammad was attacked for being a mad-man and crazed lunatic, before being called a "paedofile" - this came later as attitudes to marriages changed in Europe.
If you are sincere in your research, you will buy the book I recommended and read further into this issue, but if you are happy with a Coca-Cola understanding of Islam then do continue the sex Jihad.
Signed, just another Muslim.
"Freedom of speech does not give you the right to say or do anything you want."
True, but we can call Mohammed a child rapist with legal impunity ... and apparently in Texas you can do it without needing to fear Muslims as well.
You potentially piss off 1.6 billion people.
1.0% reacts violently.
It's naive that people expect a whole entire populous with 1400 years worth of history to all of a sudden compromise and pipe down.
Sure 99% have the brain-cells to but there's always going to be that 1% - to me it's just basic statistics and human psychology - whether it's atheists, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindu, Sikhs, Buddhists - it's just really the human condition.
But hey we love a good scapegoat don't we?
Any Middle Eastern country? In any of the primarily Islamic countries Christians are forced to pay gold to continue being Christian. ISIS has been murdering Christian children since they first started taking over Iraq and Syria.
The main difference is that Jesus taught Christians to turn the other cheek. Mohammed taught that anyone who doesn't worship him should die.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Gay porn all over the internet, I have never heard of any Christian shooting anyone involved.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
It also only applies to Sunni Muslims, not Shia Muslims, which is why you see ISIS destroying temples, including Muslim temples, they are destroying icons of faith as they believe them to be wrong.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
If it is still only 10s of millions that are normal no-harm Muslims, then there are serious issues with Muslims. There are around a billion Muslims in the world.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
No, you have it wrong. Suppose that a black-belt woman who dresses provocotively and then when attacked by some would-be rapist, kills him or disables him for police to pick up.
He would say that the would-be rapist had it coming.
--PeterM
The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands.
so aparantly they don't really care about freedom. The irony is biting. Cut off your nose to spite your face. While I certainly believe its OK to draw Muhammad, even lampoon him.(along with any and all other religeous figures) and in fact I promote it, you're a total hypocrit if you want to ban the koran. In fact you've proved your just as crazy as the gunman.
The problem isn't one religion or another. Search for "abortion doctor murder" or Matthew Shepherd and you will find evidence plenty of violent stupid Christians. Southern Poverty Law Center has some great information on domestic terrorist groups. And I don't it's safe to presume atheists are necessarily better. Religious people do an awful lot of selfless and amazing work (I'm not saying atheists don't, but your most selfless religious person is definitely more helpful that your typical atheist).
Personally, I think the "enemy" is stupidity and, unfortunately, I'm often fairly guilty of being an idiot too, but at least I try not to be an idiot, and I don't shoot anyone because because of my stupidity.
Sorry, but no. The ancient Greeks are not related to the current ones (who are ethnically mostly Turkish) in any way. Besides, your Christian religion was a hindrance for Europe for many centuries, not a blessing. It directly contributed to the downfall of the Roman empire, hundreds of wars and lost knowledge.
This is so funny about you nationalists, no matter from where. You are convinced that you are a blood legacy of some master race, but the reality is usually very different.
As long as Americans deal with the Muslims the way they did it in this case, i.e., the right fucking way, i will be a satisfied Greek... because we Europeans/Greeks become such sissies that Muslims started thinking they can make Americans their bitches as did with us... so, right now i am a happy Greek and you can write what ever you want about us... no problem!
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
I bet two guys holding hands could provoke violence in certain parts of Texas :(
There were death threats and violence though:
http://www.newcriterion.com/po...
That was possibly the most stupid comment I've ever read on the Internet.
As long as Americans treat Muslims the way the should treat anyone that tries to make them their bitches (i.e., the opposite way we Europeans threat them...), you can safely ignore my comments.
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
and my Christian religion was united with the wisdom of my ancestors and created Europe (and America)
The Christian religion created America in the same way that cancer created chemotherapy. Now, what is the treatment for our capitalism?
Well, thank God that America was not created on the bases of the Muslim religion - cancer is a disease that can be treated, Muslims...
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Why is this modded informative? Do you have a citation for any of this? what version of the Kuran are you reading the crazy-person-version?
http://quran.com/
Are you, incidentally, Moslem?
I dare to ask because this is what I have been told by a good number of my Islamic friends (and which has strained our friendships): "A handful of lunatic people".
Maybe it used to be. But when you look at Libya, Syria, Pakistan, IS, Nigeria, Somalia, Kenya, it is rather a very good hand full of millions.
And that is nothing to be taken lying down and lying low.
Your 'few militant Islamists' are a few million, and therefore, I have to be careful with your argument. And so should you be.
Religion should never be tolerated or accepted.
To sum up Islam:
Kill someone because they drew a picture of an epileptic, diaper wearing, schizophrenic, illiterate profit who hears voices and ride imaginary animals, what does it say about how they value logic or reason?
To sum up Christianity:
Commit incestual acts, rape children and female, kill your first born, eliminate humanity and send your son to die in the greatest sadomasochistic grandstanding of all time.
To sum up Moromism:
Native american's are from Isrial and black people turns against go which is why there black.
This is what people believe, how can you honestly take anyone seriously when they say they're religion. I've always held, and it's true, that religion is the security blanket for the scared adult who's to immature to venture out into the world.
A bunch of diaper headed Muslims want to kill people because they're upset that there favourite cartoon character got drawn, isn't that what 2 year olds do?
No they don't, though that has long been a bigger beef for Protestants than Catholics.
Nice of you though to attempt to dictate how others should interpret their faith.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Your point though is largely baseless as you are talking theory, not actual reality.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
ehhhhhh... well it depends on whether you're more of a "giver" or a "receiver" I think. If you mainly looking for mad porn star skillz then no. But there is something pretty special about blowing someone's mind with a sensation that they have literally never felt before... particularly in the case of females, who unless they've done some pretty serious experimenting with toys are not likely to have ever managed to experience much g-spot stimulation.
That said, I'm not altogether convinced your average suicide bomber would be the giving, sensitive type.
This was a perfect example of a honeypot. Just in physical form...
A more physical metaphor would be flypaper. All we have to do to protect the U.S. against terrorism is have one of these Mohammed art exhibits in every town, attackers will naturally be drawn there first and when they attack, they are killed.
In a very real way this is the ghost of Hebdo striking back.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I keep seeing that singular case being held up as some sort of counter-proof... always lacking though is a sense of proportionality and scale.
Lemme guess, if a single Amish individual happened to stab a few people, you'd hold it up as proof that even the Amish can be violent and deadly and that blame should not be just focused on Muslims?
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
If you defended Piss Christ then you really should be defending this art competition in Texas.
And let's hear it for the local police! They were brought in as additional security for the event, and when something bad happened (a shot rang out, hitting an unarmed security guard), the local police put down the shooters with two quick shots less than 45 seconds after the guard was shot.
The guard is already out of the hospital, the two terrorists with a religious motivation we fear not mentionare at the morgue.
Ken
...is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?
I was taught that a wounded animal is more dangerous than one that is not. There are people who are greatly offended (wounded) by the mockery of their strongly held beliefs. Why keep poking them with a stick and acting surprised when they strike back?
Of course, even poked, that doesn't make their reaction acceptable (shootings), but then again, shooting somebody for their shoes or purse or wallet or color of their skin or what they believe in, etc. is hardly acceptable, either. Those acts of violence occur all the time and at a far greater statistical rate than over the this. It's just that the media doesn't fixate on them.
Just like not all cops are bad because some are, neither are all . Banning the Quran, as the PM wants to do is not the answer. A book is not the cause of this problem. If people in his country or here are being induced to do violence because of it, then something else is wrong and unless you figure out what that is, you can't solve the problem.
If you want peace, work for justice.
A very many of them would have been of Greek descent. Arabs didn't take the area over until long after.
But in any case, it was white people that took up the religion in the first place. Is it so evil that they painted a white dude?
No it doesn't stand just because you say it does.
Christian retaliations not reported by today's media?
Unlikely.
Two words: Fox News.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I cannot recall if there were dead though.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10...
PARIS, Oct. 24-Government officials, religious leaders and film directors condemned today an apparent arson attack against a Paris theater that was showing Martin Scorsese's film ''The Last Temptation of Christ.''
The fire Saturday night left 13 people hospitalized, 1 of them in serious condition.
...
Before the film opened, the Archbishop of Paris, Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger, condemned it without having seen it. He said, ''One doesn't have the the right to shock the sensibilities of millions of people for whom Jesus is more important than their father or mother.''
After the fire, Cardinal Lustiger condemned those responsible for what the police suspect was arson. ''You don't behave as Christians but as enemies of Christ,'' the prelate said. ''From the Christian point of view, one doesn't defend Christ with arms. Christ himself forbade it.''
There have also been attacks against a new Claude Chabrol film, ''Une Affaire de Femmes,'' which is about a Frenchwoman who was executed for performing abortions. A viewer died of a heart attack after seeking to flee one theater after a teargas bomb was set off.
Even the "arguments" from the pulpit, both before and after, are the same.
It's almost as if they are coming from the same Abrahamic sources and same cognitive delusions.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Geez, is the idiot running this the same one who was going to have a Koran burning?
How 'bout I have a Bible burning? How would any of you feel about that (ok, I see the guns coming out, that answers that).
Wonder how fast I could burn a Bible... maybe add liquid O2?
mark
Well I was 8. So I don't think that that kind of news would have gotten to me.
No, what contract of exchange exists when the fed prints another billion and gives it to a bank at 0% interest?
You've linked that almost 30 year old thing 3 times now.
Cardinal Lustiger: ''From the Christian point of view, one doesn't defend Christ with arms. Christ himself forbade it.''
Firebombs, teargas; trying to shut the theaters down without actually killing anybody.
What you've actually done with your one example, is to show that the Christians are more enlightened than the Muslims, even when they are acting badly...
it's a honey pot! idea is to setup a bunch of these draw the prophet events and get a bunch of armed guys in the parking lot to shoot the crazies when they arrive.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
ha, yea, and no one has ever graduated from suicide bombing training camp
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
No, you won't. You demonstrably won't. People will be pissed at you, organize a boycott against your event, busuienss or even your home, but it is unlikely you will be shot.
Try using that logic to reason out the cases of those who "want to be martyrs" armed with pressure cookers full of ball bearings and explosives.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The coda: "I really now believe that in some parts of the United States people have started to mate with vegetables."
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
For instance, if I wanted to cite a verse about gambling and alcohol, I could say please see Chapter 2, verse 19 or (quran 2:19) on gambling and alcohol:
http://quran.com/2/219
Of course many Muslim traditions interpret the text differently (I think sufis believe inner experience is more important), but what your crossdressing, necrophilia fantasies warrant proper source citing.
But have you seen any 'Jesus sodomizing Mary' cartoon yet? I haven't.
bing.com
turn the filter off
jesus sodomizing mary
images
enjoy
The existence of fiat money is not a myth. That fiat money has value is a myth, but its use as a medium of exchange is successful because other people accept it.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
I've seen many cartoons depicting Jesus, but I can't recall many protests or people getting killed for it.
Perhaps you don't remember "The Last Temptation of Christ" and the related death threats from Christians? Ok. How about "Dogma" and the death threats Kevin Smith's family got.
There aren't protests over drawing Jesus because there's no proscription in the religion that disallows it. To Muslims and very orthidox Jews, drawing something that exists in heaven or Earth is idolotry.
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below" - Exodus 20:4
Though the Muslims doing stuff like this miss the point that it's a commandment *to Muslims*, and someone else doing it has no more effect than someone else eating pork.
you should see them when you point out explicitly where in the Koran, the hadiths and the sira the things I mentioned above are said.
Your comment would have been far more interesting if you had actually cited any source.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Expected. Prepared for. Hogfuckers dead.
All is well.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
That is not what Geert Wilders is claiming. See, the reason we have different countries is because people are different. Muslims and Arabs and Africans are free to practice their unique ways in their own countries. There is simply no reason for those people to be in Europe, and there is no reason for them to import their particular ways of life into a society against the will of those people already there.
Ultimately however, your personal belief in radical equality just doesn't matter. War is coming. Multiculturalism has failed, and Muslims will cease being in Europe within a generation. This will occur peacefully or violently. It is probably best if you simply accept this, and encourage all people to practice their unique ways in their own countries. When in Rome, do as the Romans do and all that. You know, basic common sense.
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing. If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
Highly unlikely. While such a depiction would horrify a good many xtians, there is no explicit commandment to kill anyone making such a depiction. There is certainly no group of clergymen suggesting that anyone take such action. Not that there hasn't been such madness, on the part of xtians, in the past, but western society has largely recovered from that level of insanity.
What is amazing is how people like yourself can make such claims. Such is the power of propaganda.
A thinking person would simply question all accounts of "genocide" as it is a criminal offense in virtually all of Europe to refuse to believe that such genocide even occurred. What kind of truth requires that level of coercion?
Moreover, it is simply a book. Wouldn't a thinking person want to read the autobiography of a man so vilified?
Apparently not, because if you did - you would be able to see for yourself that 1) Most of Adolf Hitler's criticisms were indeed quite reasonable and 2) he did not advocate genocide at any point.
What causes people like yourself to simply accept everything you see on television? I just couldn't imagine being such a follower that I lack any ability to think critically.
Stop speaking for European. You Greeks aren't . Not by legacy, not by work ethics, not even really by geography (if Greece is in Europe, then so is Turkey). And I really really hope your lazy cheating country will be thrown out of EU.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
If they're really truly free speech people? Probably most of them. Long as you aren't doing it in a public space, not because of the bible, but more because of the defecation.
In any event, disregarding the difference between drawing a picture of something and taking a *dump* on it, there's an event huger difference between saying "taking a dump on something I hold dear is massively disrespectful and I will be angry if you hold a rally and encourage people to do it", and "taking a dump on something I hold dear is literally grounds for me to go up to you and shoot you to death". One is reasonable, the other is... not so much.
So we are back here again, blame all Muslims and their belief system for the foolish actions of a minority. The fallacy of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Would it it be equally fair to say that atheism is the root cause of the nihilist actions of serial killers or those who go on a rampage, that their lack of a belief system facilitates horrific acts? Do we need to have a post on slashdot every time an atheist goes on a rampage? Handpick and skew their belief systems in such a way as to say, 'see, Atheism led to this!' Meanwhile, our foreign policy incinerates thousands of Muslims on a regular basis, whether they oppose the US policy or not. They are just statistics of course, not that these men, women and children's lives matter to any of us. We have very little posts about them in Slashdot (even though people like Snowden found these actions and appalling). Here is an interesting piece by a cartoonist who draws incendiary cartoons, but refuses to be part of the Hebdo orgy, http://www.truthdig.com/arts_c...
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
... "Draw!" means something different.
Have gnu, will travel.
Stop speaking for European. You Greeks aren't . Not by legacy, not by work ethics, not even really by geography (if Greece is in Europe, then so is Turkey). And I really really hope your lazy cheating country will be thrown out of EU.
As i already wrote to you:
As long as Americans deal with the Muslims the way they did it in this case, i.e., the right fucking way, i will be a satisfied Greek... because we Europeans/Greeks become such sissies that Muslims started thinking they can make Americans their bitches as did with us... so, right now i am a happy Greek and you can write what ever you want about us... no problem!
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
There's a difference between "idiot radicals" who annoy you and "idiot radicals" who're willing to murder complete strangers. Can we stop pretending there's no correlation between mass killing and Islam?
Oxymoron.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Those "lynching parties" aren't actually legal, even under the strictest Sharia interpretation. They are just tolerated, similar to how lynchings of blacks were tolerated in the South despite being illegal by law.
Do you support the Golden Dawn?
It's banned in Russia under the local laws on extremism.
Oxymoron.
I guess you saw what I did there, but didn't appreciate it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
protests... not riots... and not murder.... HUGE difference between voicing your complaint, and murder
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
actually you dont want to use matt sheapard as your posterchild. do a little more research into him, and you will see he didnt die for the reasons the media portrayed.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Yet to see how the Mother of Jesus and our Blessed Lord Jesus is betrayed we as Christians are to turn the other cheek! All this turmoil over in the holy land has been going on over two thousand years. Read the BIble! God bless everyone including the unbelievers.
msnbc would be all over it if it happened
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Is it really okay for you to support the actions of "known asshats" if you don't actually join the club? How does that work? "I'm no Klansman, but those asshats sure do a good job! Keep it up boys!" What does that say about you and your beliefs?
I'm very glad you asked: it says that my beliefs are not frivolous. It says that they are thoroughly grounded in a moral framework I have worked out for myself, and I'm not simply choosing which side to be on based on whether I like the look of the guy who happens to be standing next to me.
If everyone started doing this, I daresay Fox News would fold overnight (rapidly followed by quite a few others from across the political spectrum.)
As for the rest of your spiel, well, first off the last I heard at least one of the guys was a recent convert to Islam, so I'm not sure your oppression argument carries very much weight there. Further discussion on "hatred" towards minority groups (and why the various minority groups react in different ways) would absolutely have to mention Jews, and I simply don't have time right now to write the 27 disclaimer-ridden paragraphs of analysis necessary to even try to avoid all of the baggage and knee-jerk bullshit that comes with that comparison. Sorry.
we saw your 30 year old link 30 times already. cant you find aNYTHING a little more relevant date wise??? bueller????
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
ouyr worst fundies are the westboro baptist church... and they are a laughing stock to anyone who knows who they are.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
At one point in history, the Middle East was the world capital of enlightenment and progress. Back then, it was Christianity which was stained in blood in feudal medieval Europe.
So Islam isn't *necessarily* violent, it's just that any religion can go off the rails if it gets into the hands of radical fundamentalists and fanatics.
I also wonder if it has to do with the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the very few at the top, which is common in the Middle East nowadays. It's easy to see how that would radicalize everyone else.
Makes me wonder what will happen if wealth concentration proceeds unchecked in certain Western nations.
--PM
Do you support the Golden Dawn?
Yes, i do - (VERY) actively.
I am a Liberal (in the European -i.e., opposite of the American- meaning, i.e., an ANTI-Socialist/Communist, an economically/socially/politically right-wing... an almost "anarchist", if that term was not so mis-defined also...) -Greek/European/...Western Civilization!- Nationalist, that started (actively) supporting Golden Dawn... well, you -may- understand when, but -probably- not (without being your fault...) why...
Things are complicated!
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Golden Dawn is by all accounts a neo-Nazi party (heck, all it takes is a single look at their official flag to confirm that). It's amusing when neo-Nazis refer to themselves as liberals, but don't expect anyone to be fooled.
I was arguing that Christians are not going to "always" (the parents' word, not mine) respond to a blasphemous picture with violence. This seemed like a pretty fucking easy point to make. Shooting fish in a barrel, I thought.
But no, after several ACs have interjected with half-baked nonsense we now have someone trying to claim that the actual conversation is about *my* hypocrisy for not treating abortion (which is a subject I have not weighed in on, at all, except to say that it wasn't what we were talking about at the moment) equal to the murder / attempted murder of cartoonists.
Congratulations, you've successfully convinced me that for the sake of my sanity, I need to start ignoring all ACs. I hope you're happy.
Considering that TFA is about a pair of violent thugs showing up to a peaceful (non-violent) event it's amazing to me that you're scoffing at the notion that violent thugs suddenly intrude into peaceful folks' lives without notifying them ahead of time.
Golden Dawn is by all accounts a neo-Nazi party
Golden Dawn is not a "neo-Nazi" party, it is pure Greek NaZi (without the "neo-" part, what ever this may mean) - it is the direct continuation (with the "official stamps") of our older Greek NaZi party, the party of the NaZi dictator Metaxa... the one that was in power before and during WW2, and as an ally fought against... Fascist Italy and NaZi Germany (and Communist USSR - even if Greek Communists were strongly agaist the war between NaZi Greece and Nazi Germany because the NaZi Germany was still an ally to the Communist Soviet Union...)!!!
(heck, all it takes is a single look at their official flag to confirm that).
Yes... their "flag"... our ancient Greek symbol (Parthenon, and most of our other monuments, even those a century old, is full of it), that resembles the (ancient) Swastika (what we Greeks called "Gamadion")... i agree - they choose this symbol because it resembles to the well known NaZi symbol.
It's amusing when neo-Nazis refer to themselves as liberals,
Well, many things are amusing, and many are not so amusing... just don't be so amused with someone who wrote to you that he is a Nationalist BUT NOT Sosialist.
but don't expect anyone to be fooled
But i DO expect many to be fooled (and it would be THEIR fault if that happens after a Greek gives to them some info but they continue to believe that a Greek Nationalist is what they have made up their minds to be).
Things are complicated - there are two kinds of people: those who know everything, and those who ask Greeks for answers! If you are interested to know something that i know feel free to ask me my friend - i will try not to fool you (but you know what they say "fear Greeks and their gifts").
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
Guess how you did in the test? I don't know whether it's attention span that let you down, but for some reason you've been arguing with a strawman all this time despite the obvious signpost above.
Rather arrogant, especially when you didn't even pay attention to what my view on the topic is!
So I'm lying terrorist scum now am I?
How simplisticly stupid. See basic road safety for kids if you want to see how easily your accusation breaks down.
Consider those words and then consider the vast majority of migrants to the colonies in America. The entire place was based on being able to run things differently to the way the Catholic and English churches wanted people to run their lives.
I wrote as much way above in my first post did I not? It's indefensible.
And somebody might. I saw that 4 people were killed in a random shooting in Wisconsin. I know of many cases of abortion-related violence. There's plenty of professed Christians who talk trash.
And they are all wrong as well...
Freedom of speech is for both the stuff you like, and the stuff you don't...
Heck, even the riots in Baltimore show that to be false.
While the people there do have honest concerns about police being racist, the reality is that many of them are just "black vs. white" rather than addressing the issue itself.
And violent protests aren't helping. MLK made great progress for blacks without using violence, cudos to him.
It's about pissing on beliefs. an analogy is an analogy. I'm sure you can choose a different analogy that makes more sense to you if you try hard enough instead of arguing two or three levels removed from the actual issue.
Anyway, here's a clue. The bait is in Texas so unclean American blood can be spilled instead of clean Dutch blood. Wilders is not on your side. The guys that want to shoot him are not on your side either.
I grew up in the North and was taught how to shoot by the Boy Scouts at a relatively early age.
And anywhere else kids are taught to shoot at men and other various creatures through violent games. Which is worse?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Guns don't kill people. Americans do.
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See basic road safety for kids if you want to see how easily your accusation breaks down.
That's not at all comparable, and suggesting so is beyond ridiculous. The rules of the road are for everyone's safety. So is free speech.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"Brave" Dutchman putting Texan cops in danger? No he's taking advantage of the bravery of others. He's gone and stirred up a couple of American kids that may not have considered murder otherwise, and they've gone and done something stupid enough to get killed as a consequence. I suggest you think about that before trying to wrap things up in a flag.
Yet you are telling me to go away instead of expressing things myself - make up your mind.
Yes my point is you did go way beyond ridiculous. Obvious deliberate incitement with clear results is very different to your silly writing it off as "blaming the victim". It's like stepping onto a highway and relying on someone to rescue you from a deliberately dangerous position.
Do you even know who you are standing up for? Do you know what he thinks of your racial purity and choice of religeon? He may not be a murderer but he's convinced people to try to become murderers.
I posted a comment an hour or so ago and it is gone. It was a reply to another post here. Is there possibly someone here who does not believe in free speech?
It was a comment about the ordinariness of mohammad. It was only my opinion.
Here now is a comment about free speech: Two dickheads died in Texas for trying to violently shut down free speech.
Here now is a question: Do you think those two dickheads learned their lesson? The lesson being that you shouldn't try to shut down the right to free speech of citizens of the USA!
There is a reason God created guns. (And if you don't understand what that statement means, you never will.)
- X/Y -
That's because you were born 300 years to late.
I did not say that commonly shared myths aren't useful. I'll keep my money thank you, for as long as the people I give it to continue to believe it has value ;-)
Obvious deliberate incitement
You don't seem to get how this works. Either violence is an acceptable response to someone insulting your beliefs or it isn't. If it is, then carry on, I guess. If it isn't, then there is no such thing as an incitement to violence which is not itself violent. There are only violent responses to things which do not merit a violent response. Again, you are blaming the victim.
Do you even know who you are standing up for?
Again, you have no fucking idea what you're on about. I'm standing up for free speech, free thought, and free expression. I think it's braver to stand up and make a statement about what you believe than it is to attempt to kill someone to prevent them from expressing an idea you find frightening.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So a post calling mohammad a paedophile is somehow less inflammatory than simply saying mohammad liked fucking little girls?
- X/Y -
To Slashdot personnel: I finally figured it out what I was doing wrong, my apologies.
- X/Y -
So essentially they created a honeypot featuring as many racists as possible to draw in extremists so they could kill them? Gotcha.
Go fuck yourself, you lying Nazi prick. I hope you die in a fire.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
With that you've moved the goal posts a very long way from what I've written and painted me as writing something I did not come close to writing.
I hope you are proud of yourself because nobody else will be.
I hope you are proud of yourself because nobody else will be.
What's a river cruise in Egypt going for these days?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Some believe that if the shaman curses them and points at them with a particular bone representing his power, they will die.
Sure enough, if the shaman does exactly that, *they* will die. So, is it true then? At least in some sense it seems to be.
A $100 bill is a piece of paper with printing on it. It carries very little intrinsic value. Among those who *BELIEVE* it has value, you can offer it in exchange for goods and services. It is true in the same sense as the shaman's curse.
I'll bet I couldn't get you to put in hours of hard work in exchange for an animal's tail, but in some places you'll get a lot more for it than you will for that $100.
So since you don't need me at all to rant about what your imaginary friend is saying why are you bothering me?
You jumped into this thread putting some utter bullshit that didn't come from me into my mouth:
So you can't read, and you can't understand the import of what you're saying? Perhaps a discussion board is not for you.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There you go with your imaginary friend again. It's a pity you two can't get along.
Yeah your Shamen analogy falls over since most people don't spontaneously die (and don't believe the stories you read on the internet, I'm yet to see scientific evidence to support such bunk). It also falls apart with just one non-believer who tells the Shamen to go fuck himself.
For money it takes more than just one person to cause it to fail, you need almost everyone to not believe. And since greed is intrinsic in all living things, good luck with that.
If there was a serial rapist targetting redheads in a certain city, and some redheaded women decided to wander the streets alone at night carrying a legal a concealed pistol, and one of them was attacked and shot the attacker... to my knowledge, no American law was violated. Maybe places in Europe have a "provocation" legal precedent whereupon people are required to avoid offending potential murderers, but there thankfully is no analogue here.
The "fighting words" doctrine, as someone else mentioned, cannot be (and to my knowledge never has been) expanded so as to encompass religious blasphemy law. If it could, according to your logic a Scientologist could kill me the next time I crack a joke about Xenu.
How's this for an idea: some form of visual media (video or drawings, whatever) depicting Muhammad and Islam in a very positive light, marketed and clearly honestly intended to educate westerners about the positive elements of the Muslim community and their history.
Then see if the kind of people who try to shoot people for drawing Muhammad throw a fit over even something like that.
This might not go as nicely as you'd think. A teacher in Sudan made the mistake of allowing her class to name a teddy bear Muhammad (their idea, not hers) and for this crime she was arrested and deported. At one point she had to be taken to a secret location because mobs in the street were literally demanding that she be killed. The chaos was such that the school had to be closed for a month:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I'm not saying a positive documentary would necessarily be met with assassins, but neither could we rule out the possibility.
Nice dodging and weaving, but I'm guessing you know the point will find you in the end.
It's called critical mass. Once enough people cease to believe in your funny green rectangle, it's finished as a carrier of value. Greed has nothing to do with it because greed only applies to things with value. However, the point (which you seem to accept implicitly while denying it) is that the belief makes the money.
As for the shaman, he just slips something in your drink so you later die horribly. Then everyone naturally believes you were strong, but the shaman was stronger still and resistance just made it worse. He needn't explain that, they'll make the story up themselves. If he somehow fails that, don't worry, you'll die after everyone shuns you so the cures doesn't get on them. Then they'll "remember" that you died promptly just like the myth says.
Nice dodging and weaving, but I'm guessing you know the point will find you in the end.
What the fuck are you talking about. You gave some idiotic analogy about Witch Doctors and tried to apply that to real life. Money has value. You even believe this even if you don't admit to because saying money has no value you then apply value to it.
The sure-fire 100% guaranteed way to verify someone's belief is to get them to commit something of value for their cause. Since you won't do this you're yet another blow hard in the long list of blow hards who talk big and walk small.
There seems to be a large amount of people who failed to grasp your point, then. Would you like to try to clarify it while you are still able to post here?
You should note that the belief you say is crap is the belief of not worshipping idols - one which you probably share
Incorrect. The belief that I say is crap is the belief that it is wrong to draw Muhammad. My opinions on idol worship[1] are irrelevant. I do not accept the logic of these religious homicidal maniacs, nor the logic of the men who authored the relevant hadith.
As for muddying the waters, well, the simple approach has already been tried: attacking and/or flouting bad beliefs is an inherently good act. But I admit there could be exceptions to this principle, hence the wider discussion
1.It depends on what that involves. If there's supernatural nonsense then no, I probably don't hold a high opinion of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jG0D2nRGrQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1m33s - sure wasn't this interview.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
"Organi[z]e a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing." \n\n This has already been proven untrue. Remember when they put Jesus in a jar of piss and displayed it around the nation, calling it art? People were outraged, but no Christian harmed anyone because of it.
Sure, only a couple of death threats (hrmm, maybe Christians are at heart just as violent, but cowards). Oh, and pretty much every print was violently attacked by Christians.
And by displayed around the nation, you mean in New York and a few places in the civilized part of the US. Now you display it in Texas if you believe you are on no danger.
Unfortunately, negative interpretations of the work have only become more violent over the last two decades, and prints of “Piss Christ” have been attacked in Australia and France. In 1997, a Serrano retrospective at Melbourne’s National Gallery of Victoria was canceled when visitor John Allen Haywood removed the photograph from the wall and kicked it, and the following day two teens attacked with a hammer — all after the local Catholic Archbishop had failed to obtain a court injunction blocking the piece from being exhibited at all.
Appearing in court — where he was eventually given a suspended, one-month jail sentence — Haywood was asked what he would say to Serrano if he ever met him, and responded: “I wouldn’t like to say nothing to him. I’d just like to punch him on the nose.”
In 2011, “Piss Christ” once again was on the losing end of a hammer head during an exhibition at the Collection Lambert, the art foundation of Serrano’s longtime Paris dealer Yvon Lambert in Avignon. A day after having to close early when 800 protestors turned up to voice their disapproval of Serrano’s work, and following a stream of death threats against the museum’s employees — “Several people have called saying, ‘If you open, you’re dead,'” a staffer told Reuters — three vandals smashed the photograph and another nearby Serrano work, “The Church.” Though the pieces were damaged beyond repair, the Collection Lambert left them on view through the end of the exhibition “I Believe in Miracles,” which marked the museum’s tenth anniversary, “so the public can appreciate for themselves the violence of the acts,” it said.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
You will get 'a response' but that response will depend on the religion of the offendee. Islam = bombings, shootings, stabbings all other religions = slogans, placards, letters to the editor.
Islam is violent. Wake up to the truth!
Christianity: death threats, violent destruction of works of art, molotov attacks against crowded movie theaters.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.