Former HP CEO Carly Fiorina Announces Bid For White House

seven of five writes: According to Reuters, "Former Hewlett-Packard Co Chief Executive Carly Fiorina announced on Monday she is running for president, becoming the only woman in the pack of Republican candidates for the White House in 2016. ... Fiorina registers near the bottom of polls of the dozen or so Republican hopefuls and has never held public office. But she has already attracted warm receptions at events in the early voting state of Iowa where she is positioning herself as a conservative, pro-business Republican highly critical of Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. Fiorina was forced by HP to resign in 2005 as the tech company struggled to digest Compaq after a $19 billion merger."

As part of her announcement, she said, "I think I'm the best person for the job because I understand how the economy actually works. I understand the world, who's in it, how the world works." I'm sure we'll soon begin hearing from all the HP employees, current and former, who have nothing but love for Carly F.

Comments

"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

Carly "The Ego" Fiorina.

Her ego covers a land mass the size of Maine.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

So, just like everybody else running for president?

Re:"The Ego"

[pla]

Whoah whoah whoah there!

We use standard units around here, none of that "furlongs per fortnight" crap.

You'll need to rephrase that in multiples of Rhode Island, please.

Re:"The Ego"

[bkmoore]

Whoah whoah whoah there! We use standard units around here, none of that "furlongs per fortnight" crap...

How many British Thermal Units per hour is she capable of performing when at peak capacity?
For extra credit: What is the BTU/h per stone, i.e. specific power?
Please show all unit conversions and penmanship counts.

Re:"The Ego"

[Trepidity]

Sounds like Ted Cruz!

Re:"The Ego"

[jythie]

Or for that matter, anyone who manages to become the CEO of a major company like HP. You gotta have ego to get there, and after that, by our social standards, the person IS better than most people so to many the self image is justified. Well, unless one is a woman, then 'she has a big ego!'

Re:"The Ego"

[David_Hart]

Carly "The Ego" Fiorina.

Her ego covers a land mass the size of Maine.

They had a short piece on her this morning on NPR. She was attacking Hilary Clinton on not having enough experience in leadership, etc. I found it quite amusing. Like or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

[L]ike or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

That's not Fiorina's target demographic. In fact, they're the polar opposite. While Clinton has experience, it's all government experience (most of which is as a first lady). No doubt Fiorina will talk about how "government is broken" as her platform. It will take a "business leader" willing to make the "hard decisions" to make government "work for the people."

All B.S. Bernie Sanders 2016!

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

Because no one ever talked about the Steve Jobs reality distortion field. But maybe he was a woman too? I think you have a huge job ahead of you if you want to insinuate that "big ego" is a trait more negatively applied to women acting the same as men. Better to stick with "bitch", "bossy", "overbearing", "cold", "uncaring", "ruthless", etc. No need to make shit up when there's so many better examples.

Re:"The Ego"

[argStyopa]

One might point out that makes 2 massively egotistical women on the campaign trail, then?

Re:"The Ego"

[Penguinisto]

The 'muh sexism!' cry is unnecessary, especially in this case. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison(!!), and others have also (credibly) been accused of having monster-sized egos...

Seriously, when it comes to big egos, Scott McNealy (dude who used to run Sun Microsystems) had an ego large enough to carry it's own gravitational pull.

You can be a CEO without having an ego large enough to require its own zip code... tons of examples out there (even deep within the Fortune 500), but you don't hear about them as much because they tend to focus on their work, not their public image.

Re:"The Ego"

[Jason Levine]

How big is her ego exactly? Can you express it in Donald Trumps? (The standard measure of ego size.)

Re:"The Ego"

[basecastula]

she has way more government experience

1) So did Palin (vs Obama) but that didn't stop the criticism there 2) Most of Hilary's experience is being the wife of Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend 3) Finally, most good democrats cannot even find ONE accomplishment of Hilary, besides #2)

Given the choice between Hilary and Carly, I'd take Carly. Which isn't actually saying much. Personally, I can't stand either of them.

You do realize Hilary was Secretary of State right?

Re:"The Ego"

[Shakrai]

How many British Thermal Units per hour is she capable of performing when at peak capacity?

That depends on what kind of shape she's in. :)

Re:"The Ego"

[ShanghaiBill]

She's also always wrong.

This is the key issue. Some of the other candidates have demonstrated competence in executive management, and others have a legislative record, but it is unclear if they have the skill and talent to make a good president. What sets Carly apart is an unambiguous record of failure and incompetence in everything she has ever done.

Re:"The Ego"

[Shakrai]

You do realize Hilary was Secretary of State right?

Not exactly a ringing endorsement when one looks at the current geopolitical situation.

Re: "The Ego"

[slaker]

She crafted and presented a workable health care bill that was torpedoed for political reasons and would have avoided the current clusterfuck the USA has now.

She also served successfully as secretary of state in an essentially scandal free administration, no matter how much republicans wish it were otherwise.

I'll probably vote green party regardless (that's as much throwing away my vote in Indiana as voting for a democrat), but I do recognize that she has foreign and domestic policy experience in government.

Re:"The Ego"

[ShanghaiBill]

How big is her ego exactly? Can you express it in Donald Trumps? (The standard measure of ego size.)

Wrong. The standard unit of ego is the microtrump. A full trump is way too big for any practical use. That would be like expressing the power of your lawnmower motor as 1.2e-34 solar outputs.

Re:"The Ego"

[kimvette]

I thought Kanye West was the new standard of measure for egos?

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

Her actual fault was that she came from marketing; didn't understand technology and never tired to understand it. She poured tons of money into drumming up how great HP is; and little to none in innovation; and made HP from market leader into a mediocre company. IBM ate their lunch in the high-end machines and Dell in consumer products; the only thing that was profitable were their printers; thankfully she had the presence of mind to leave that one alone.

There is a wide consensus that as a CEO of a technological company she was a failure (fairly easy to research if anybody is interested).

Exibit A: HP's stock took an upward trend on Feb 2005 (when she was ousted) after languishing for years.

Re: "The Ego"

[Archangel Michael]

She crafted and presented a workable health care bill

She wasn't elected to do that. She wasn't even elected. If your best case scenario is this then go away.

She also served successfully as secretary of state in an essentially scandal free administration, no matter how much republicans wish it were otherwise.

Scandal Free? LOL

Successfully? LMAO The world is burning, and you call that success?

Re: "The Ego"

[Aryden]

Well, she didn't start the fire. She couldn't put it out either.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anne Thwacks]

Fiorina doesnt need experience. She would delegate the job to people on minimum wages in China.

Re: "The Ego"

[slaker]

Actually, if you were of voting age during the 1992 Presidential elections, you might remember that Bill Clinton was open that he would be working very closely with his wife on the matter. That might have been overshadowed by the spectacle of Ross Perot being a general-purpose sideshow, but it definitely did come up at campaign events and the like.

With regard to scandal or the lack thereof, the closest thing the Obama administration in general has had to one is probably the standard of care for veterans and specifically at Walter Reed. Benghazi has just been an ongoing conservative circle jerk and the Snowden disclosures have really just highlighted the overreach available LEGALLY to the administration.

You might say that the State Department under Obama has allowed relations with Israel to sour in favor of greater ties to other states in the region, but it might also be said that Israel is a big-boy country now that doesn't need the USA to enforce its will. Putin's expansionist aims been an ongoing issue since before Obama took office and the case can certainly be made that the US did not need to intervene on the ground in Iran, Libya or Syria in spite of whatever amount of sabre-rattling conservatives have wanted to do to the contrary.

Bearing that in mind, where do you see scandal in the Obama administration or more specifically in its foreign policy?

Re:"The Ego"

[OrangeTide]

However her ego exceeds ANYTHING that is required.

So she's over qualified for office? Excellent, all is going according to plan.

Re: "The Ego"

[Calavar]

She was also a U.S. Senator for New York for eight years (i.e. Elected twice). But of course, that was also a job that she only got for being Bill Clinton's wife and not because she holds a law degree from Yale University, not because she was a professor of Law at the University of Arkansas, not because she was she was on the congressional legal advisory staff in the Watergate impeachment process, and not because she played an important role in organizing the Carter presidential campaign. Facts.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

Millitrumps. Donald Trumps are more appropriate for the galactic scale.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

Once upon a time HP was known as a technology innovator, in the years that Carly was in charge they became a maker of ink jet cartridges

When they bought Compaq they had managed to roll up two of the mini and personal computing powerhouses (DEC had just been taken over by Compaq) and effectively shit-canned the technology that came with them and just leveraged the customer base. Compaq computers went from being leading edge innovators to clones and DEC ALPHA chips were intentionally slow-sold in favor of Itanium (they even refused to release Alpha benchmarks because they beat the tar out of HP Itanium Superdome systems)

So, there was a lot of MBA talk and attempts to score big in quarterly reports that effectively took the heart of of a tech leader (or really leaders) and stomped it to death in front of a horrified tech community

That is why Carly is so beloved in /.

Re:"The Ego"

[sl3xd]

The Trump may be commonly used among the executive crowd, the average road-ragin' 'Murica Joe probably scores in the picoTrump range.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want successful government, never elect anyone who claims that government can never succeed.

Re:"The Ego"

[sl3xd]

Kayye West Probably scores in the 200-300 milliTrump range.

His score is severely limited by the fact he went up on stage twice to proclaim that somebody other than himself deserved best artist awards.

Re:"The Ego"

[riverat1]

While Clinton has experience, it's all government experience (most of which is as a first lady).

Don't forget that Clinton was also a Senator and Secretary of State so she has experience in both the legislative and executive branches.

I like Bernie Sanders but he's unlikely to get the nomination.

Re:"The Ego"

[Anonymous Coward]

> Defending Carly

If you're going to be an SJW shill on Slashdot, at least do your fucking homework. People around here hated Carly long before she identified as a woman.

Re: "The Ego"

[Dr. Eggman]

However, it is only the standard because the nano-Dijkstra unit was too large to be of practical use.

Re:"The Ego"

[FirstOne]

Carly Fiorina in January 2004 meeting to head off rising protectionist sentiment in Congress, stated "There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore" on the topic of H1-B's in the USA

It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for Carly.

Re:"The Ego"

[happy_place]

I worked for HP during the Carly experience. I've also always voted for the conservative candidate for President. If Carly gets the nomination I WILL change my vote to a different candidate. (Not a huge fan of Hillary either so maybe I'll just throw away my vote on 3rd party candidate... who knows).

I never felt she dealt honestly with the employees of the company. During those times she orchestrated the destruction of the HP Way, never understanding or trusting it in the least. She had little to no understanding of the technological expertise in the company. She adored IBM's consulting firm which is why she pushed for the acquisition of such companies, and the touting of HP's "e-speak" technology. She simply didn't lead, she spouted buzzwords and followed popular trends, trying to glom onto anything that might be construed as cool/buzzworthy. Though no one in the company had ANY IDEA what it was or how to deploy it in any way. It was ridiculous, I once took a good week trying to figure that out and NO ONE understood what e-speak meant. She spouted the buzzwords ceaselessly. She got rid of company profit sharing and tried to push HP to follow a policy she admired from CISCO at the time of mandatory firing of the bottom 10% of employees in HP regardless of the group. The summer before the Compaq acquisition, she convinced HP employees to donate their bonuses and vacation days back to the company on a voluntary basis so that there wouldn't need to be a lay off, then right prior to 9/11 (She sometimes liked to hide behind the market crashes of 9/11 but that's not the case, the crash occurred before that) she orchestrated the first lay off in HP history EVER. At the time we were told it would be for the welfare of the company and hit areas of the company that would need to be let go, then she promptly acquired Compaq and butchered both companies.

I see her as fundamentally disingenuous. A macchievellian at heart who will do and say anything to appease her shareholders while disregarding all human cost. So in a way she's ideal for politics, but not my kind anymore. SO no thanks... I'll be voting for the other guy.

Likewise, I know few employees who didn't feel betrayed by her. Hence they removed her from the board with her millions of bonuses and such to get her to go...

Re:"The Ego"

[Feyshtey]

+1

It's a shame that there's a cult of personality rather than an intellectually honest evaluation of performance.

Re:"The Ego"

[luis_a_espinal]

So, there was a lot of MBA talk and attempts to score big in quarterly reports

And this is the crux of the matter, the focus of scoring big in quarterly reports. This is not hand-waving, purely ideological complaints. When MBA professors mentions *this* as the biggest problem in American corporate culture (can your sense of irony for a second), then this is not idle shit talking.

Business executives are graded per their deliveries at the next immediate quarter, not in their capacity to create long-term value. That is what a shareholder's economy is all about. And Fiorina is a great example of it.

Re:"The Ego"

[acoustix]

They had a short piece on her this morning on NPR. She was attacking Hilary Clinton on not having enough experience in leadership, etc. I found it quite amusing. Like or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

Since when does "government experience" = leadership experience? What achievements in government does Hillary have?

I'm not a Fiorina supporter by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: "The Ego"

[Feyshtey]

She also served successfully as secretary of state in an essentially scandal free administration, no matter how much republicans wish it were otherwise.

Wait, ... what? That's like saying that Nixon would have had a scandal free administration if they'd just avoided proving the allegations...

Re: "The Ego"

[luis_a_espinal]

She was also a U.S. Senator for New York for eight years (i.e. Elected twice). But of course, that was also a job that she only got for being Bill Clinton's wife and not because she holds a law degree from Yale University, not because she was a professor of Law at the University of Arkansas, not because she was she was on the congressional legal advisory staff in the Watergate impeachment process, and not because she played an important role in organizing the Carter presidential campaign. Facts.

Facts are never important when we look for reasons to hate ;)

Re:"The Ego"

[ganjadude]

so shes the rights hillary clinton? in more ways than gender!

Re:"The Ego"

[ganjadude]

to be fair, compaq had been garbage for a number of years prior to being bought out. in the late 90s to early 2000s, any store bought PC was pretty much abysmal at the time. Dell had good support and ease of ordering which gave them a little leverage, but by the time dell got big, hp and compaq were both considered, at least in the people i know to be inferior products to others available at the time

Re:"The Ego"

[ganjadude]

as a resident of NY, i cant say she did anything at all for the better of our state. and as sec of state.... well what has she done there?

Its almost as if she took the jobs only so they could say she had those jobs when she runs of president....

Re:"The Ego"

[FlyHelicopters]

Carly "The Ego" Fiorina.

Her ego covers a land mass the size of Maine.

You may be right, but how is that any different from Hillary?

Frankly, we've had a Clinton in Washington for more than 20 years now, can Carly do any worse?

One of the problems is that we keep electing the same people over and over. Jeb Bush is just more of the same as George, Hillary is just more of the same, and so on...

Re: "The Ego"

[ganjadude]

no but she could have not thrown gas on it, which she did

Re:"The Ego"

[31415926535897]

Well, it's hard to tell, so I propose that we burn her and find out exactly how many BTUs she contains.

Re:"The Ego"

[FlyHelicopters]

Like or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

I agree with you, which is why voting for Hilary is just voting for more of the same government we've had for years.

Is that what you want?

Re: "The Ego"

[FlyHelicopters]

She was also a U.S. Senator for New York for eight years (i.e. Elected twice). But of course, that was also a job that she only got for being Bill Clinton's wife and not because she holds a law degree from Yale University, not because she was a professor of Law at the University of Arkansas, not because she was she was on the congressional legal advisory staff in the Watergate impeachment process, and not because she played an important role in organizing the Carter presidential campaign. Facts.

That may all be true, but it also isn't the reason she got elected to the Senate... She was the first Lady and Bill's wife, that is why...

Keep in mind that she has been in government for most of her life now, electing her is exactly the problem, career politicians.

The fact that Carly has no elected experience actually makes it an interesting idea, even if I wouldn't personally vote for her. She really has no chance, I hope she knows that.

---

Note: I don't want Jeb Bush either, that is more of the same as well. I'd rather have someone from outside of government.

Re:"The Ego"

[Crashmarik]

There isn't a chance in hell of her getting the nomination. The woman doesn't have a base, but she does have an anti-base ( Voters that will go out of their way to hurt her chances). Donald Trump has a better chance of getting the nomination, and he is more a comedy act than a candidate.

Re:"The Ego"

[ganjadude]

yeah but no one was talking about them either, it was all about kanye. its always about kanye. I think it takes 2 trumps to make a kanye

Re:"The Ego"

[HiThere]

Well, to be fair as secretary of state she appears to have followed the direction of the president. There have been worse examples (including one who barricaded himself in his office and refused to resign under Lincoln).

Re:"The Ego"

[Crashmarik]

You really want to bring in her performance as secretary of state ?

Re:"The Ego"

[HiThere]

Well, while I do agree, the Secretary of State is not supposed to set policy. So she doesn't deserve much blame for that.

Re: "The Ego"

[HiThere]

???
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. I rather despise Obama as a president, but I can't think of any particular scandal...and I mean something *I* consider a scandal, not something that titillates the shocked sensibilities of those who are appalled by a "wardrobe malfunction". The closest I can come is his acceptance of RomenyCare as his health plan (i.e. "ObamaCare"), but while appalling, I can hardly consider that a scandal.

Re:"The Ego"

[HiThere]

Bingo! I'd forgotten that! That definitely qualifies as a scandal, since her communications are supposed to be public.

Re: "The Ego"

[Calavar]

Agreed, but let's take a second look at Archangel's comment:

She got the job because she was Monica's Ex-Boyfriend's wife. Not because she actually did anything worthy of it.

The bolded sentence may be true, but the italicized is false. She got the job partly because of Bill's fame and partly because of her own qualifications. Reagan was way more popular than Clinton when he left office, but I don't think Nancy Reagan would have been able to successfully run for senate at the time.

Re: "The Ego"

[slaker]

My read on the "IRS Scandal" is that conservative groups with iffy not for profit status are upset that laws still applied to them in ways that they hadn't under the Bush Administration. I don't believe the matter will be otherwise resolved while the current administration is in office and moreover, I'm not particularly surprised that executive agencies might have differing methods for enforcing their mandate from one executive to another, especially given the free pass given to some groups under a previous administration.

Re:"The Ego"

[Tablizer]

We use standard units around here, none of that "furlongs per fortnight" crap.

By political standards? "Hillargrams"

Re:"The Ego"

[Shakrai]

If she disagreed with the policy and had any backbone she would have resigned. Since she didn't we can conclude that she either agreed with the policy or she didn't have enough courage of conviction to resign. Neither one of those options suggests that she's fit to sit in the Oval Office.

Re:"The Ego"

[argStyopa]

Well, by that logic then this is relevant too:

http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com...

According to data published by the Social Security Administration, the name Hillary is the most severely poisoned baby name in history. Hillary had been steadily climbing the baby name charts since the 1960s, when it first graced the Top 1000, becoming the 136th most common name for baby girls in 1992. But the name sharply reversed course in 1993, smashing several longstanding records (Ebeneezer, Adolph) for name contamination in its plunge from the Top 1000 girl names last year.

Re:"The Ego"

[Snufu]

Wrong. The standard unit of ego is the microtrump. A full trump is way too big for any practical use. That would be like expressing the power of your lawnmower motor as 1.2e-34 solar outputs.

Microtrumps are useful in many applied fields, but we still need a system of universal standard political SI (Superego International) units that can be used across all disciplines.

Ego force: Newt (Gingrich).
Bribing torque: Newt-meter.
Energy: Election votes
Power: Election votes per second
Power density: Election votes per second per district
Density of states: Electorate distribution
Density of electorate: Red states

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

When MBA professors mentions *this* as the biggest problem in American corporate culture (can your sense of irony for a second), then this is not idle shit talking.

And when individual companies do this, like, oh, HP, they pay the price. So, it may be a widespread problem, but it is self-correcting.

Re:"The Ego"

[garyisabusyguy]

Compaq had put a lot of effort into modernizing their production lines in order to retool more quickly for new mahines

HP's mistake was buying them at the height of the market and missing out on the looming dotcom/telecom bust, which was already in motion by the time that the merger was announced in late 2001

If HP had acted like a few other tech companies, reduced expenditures and focused on delivery they may have fared better than they had. However, that was not the snake oil that their management was selling, and it was probably not what their shareholders wanted to here either

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Like or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

Yes, Hilary is extremely adept at manipulating the political process to her advantage and to the advantage of her buddies.

Thanks, but I'd rather have an incompetent do-nothing president than a president who is extremely skilled... at wrecking the country.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

"Vote for Hilary! She has not been the worst Secretary of State in US History!"

Re:"The Ego"

[StikyPad]

Here's a visualization of her layoffs at HP: http://carlyfiorina.org/

And this is what she had to say about it: "I would have done them all faster."

Re:"The Ego"

[hambone142]

Carly is a "legend in her own mind".

Again, this is the CEO that told HP "HP Employees do not have a God-given right to a job".

I kid you not.... HP employees sang "ding dong, the witch is dead" when HP's errant board fired her.

I wish the Repubs could present an electable candidate. So far, all we have is this megalomaniac and a bunch of religious right nut jobs.

Give us a choice, dammit!

Hillary and the Repub. cretins are not "choices". They are lesser of evils.

Re:"The Ego"

[NormalVisual]

by the time dell got big, hp and compaq were both considered, at least in the people i know to be inferior products to others available at the time

And this was really a shame, because Compaq's early machines were awesome.

Re: "The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

and the Snowden disclosures have really just highlighted the overreach available LEGALLY to the administration.

So you are saying that if the administration can hurt and kill people without breaking any laws, than that's OK? I don't think so.

and the case can certainly be made that the US did not need to intervene on the ground in Iran, Libya or Syria in spite of whatever amount of sabre-rattling conservatives have wanted to do to the contrary.

Actually, what many conservatives and independents wanted was less mindless intervention and less war mongering.

The problem with Hilary and the Democrats is that they are war mongers and crony capitalists of the worst kind, arguably even worse than the militaristic wing of the Republican party. And that's why hell will freeze over before I vote for another Democrat.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

And she is right. People like you simply accelerate the job loss overseas, because companies don't have to have a large presence in the US anymore in order to succeed here.

Re:"The Ego"

[Assmasher]

Be glad that you've never been in the corporate world at a level to watch the incompetent sychophants rise despite clear reasoning why they should be let go (much less 'not promoted.')

I've seen mid-level executives receive promotions for 'not being in the red' because for the three years they ran a division they re-org'd every year because the years you perform a re-org your numbers were given HUGE discrepancy allowances. One guy lost more than 10 million (on a budget of 7 million) a year for 3 years in a row and was promoted - through this trick.

Worse, I've known people who were CTOs of actual Silicon Valley tech companies (not huge ones, but worth a couple of hundred millions dollars) who DID NOT KNOW WHAT TCP/IP WAS OR WHAT A SOCKET WAS. Not CIOs, or CISO - CTO. It's okay though, he looked the part, and he said yes all the time.

Crazy man. Crazy.

Re:"The Ego"

[reve_etrange]

it may be a widespread problem, but it is self-correcting.

I'm not entirely convinced it is self-correcting. Some scholars have named the MBA phenomenon as a key component in the secular decline of the average rate of profit since mid century. (Yes, profits are higher than ever now, but not the rate of profit).

[1] Brenner, Robert. The economics of global turbulence: the advanced capitalist economies from long boom to long downturn, 1945-2005. Verso, 2006.
[2] Brenner, Robert. "What is Good for Goldman Sachs is Good for America The Origins of the Present Crisis." (2009).

Re: "The Ego"

[Cederic]

The company became crowdwe

Even assuming it's a typo, that one's left me confused.

Re:"The Ego"

[ShanghaiBill]

And when individual companies do this, like, oh, HP, they pay the price. So, it may be a widespread problem, but it is self-correcting.

While Carly was CEO, HP lost 65% of its market value. But she walked away with more than $100 Million. So how is that going to self correct?

Re:"The Ego"

[JebusIsLord]

The whole "run government like a business" mantra always drives me nuts. Government is not like a business. If your business isn't profitable, cutting jobs can make sense. If your economy is in recession, cutting jobs will make the recession worse. Things like mergers, aquisitions, etc are equally poor analogies for how a nation state operates.

Re:"The Ego"

[khallow]

If your economy is in recession, cutting jobs will make the recession worse.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm just not on board with the idea of protecting workers when that causes a lot of long term harm to societies.

Re:"The Ego"

[Ryanrule]

dont be a dick, vote dem. its a choice of bumbling and semi competent vs pure evil.

Re: "The Ego"

[jeff4747]

That's because in the "IRS Scandal", more liberal organizations faced extra scrutiny than conservative organizations. In other words, the exact opposite of the claims made by those pushing the scandal.

That keeps being a problem with getting more coverage of all these Obama scandals. They keep not quite turning out to be scandals.

Re: "The Ego"

[Rinikusu]

Awesome. So 12 years isn't enough? How many more? Who pays for it? What endgame would you create to make it acceptable to "pull out" of a region that neither wants us nor desires us to be there (but please keep giving them money, kthxbai)? Hrm?

Shut the fuck up.

Re:"The Ego"

[Frobnicator]

Here's a visualization of her layoffs at HP

To be fair, I wouldn't mind some massive government layoffs.

A few hundred thousand NSA contractors doing surveillance, about 50,000 TSA agents who make people not want to fly, and some serious tax reform could eliminate the need for a few hundred thousand IRS workers. (The Lee-Rubio tax reform plan is much less terrible than the current tax mess, removing most of the deductions, credits, exemptions, and exclusions abused by businesses and individuals, and includes dumping lots of IRS workers.)

Couple it up with some H1B reform dropping anywhere from a quarter to a half of the 140,000 of the H1B visa jobs.

Round it out by firing a bunch of high-level and mid-level people in the agencies suffering from regulatory capture, but those can be filled with new people with an emphasis on avoiding capture.

So a half million or so workers. The layoffs will sting for a few months, but they'll make the country better.

For those, I'd mirror her comments "I would have done them all faster."

Re:"The Ego"

[riverat1]

Sanders is running as a Democrat.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

So, HP lost 65% of its market value and $100 million dollars, because they made stupid hiring decisions for their CEO. That is the self-correction. Whether Carly gets rich is irrelevant.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Some scholars have named the MBA phenomenon as a key component in the secular decline of the average rate of profit since mid century.

The decline in the average rate of profit since mid century is explained easily through more efficient markets.

Re:"The Ego"

[reve_etrange]

There has also been persistent oversupply - Brenner argues that that is the main driver in the decline.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

It's due to increasing supply, yes. That's an "oversupply" only if you think for some reason that corporate profits going down is intrinsically bad. But it isn't intrinsically bad at all.

Re: "The Ego"

[AmiMoJo]

I find it depressing that the on-going drone strikes are not considered a scandal. Or the lack of action over spying and people lying to congress.

Re:"The Ego"

[Hognoxious]

You don't reach a position like she had at HP by failure and incompetence.

No, you demonstrate that afterwards.

As she did, in spades.

Re:"The Ego"

[luis_a_espinal]

When MBA professors mentions *this* as the biggest problem in American corporate culture (can your sense of irony for a second), then this is not idle shit talking.

And when individual companies do this, like, oh, HP, they pay the price. So, it may be a widespread problem, but it is self-correcting.

Self-correcting with respect to what? By replacing one badly performed CEO with another? Or by one company correcting itself while two, three more go down the same bad path despite the obvious, in-your-face, cautionary example?

When the phenomenon keeps occurring to the detriment of the entire national economy, that is not self-correcting.

Re:"The Ego"

[luis_a_espinal]

Some scholars have named the MBA phenomenon as a key component in the secular decline of the average rate of profit since mid century.

The decline in the average rate of profit since mid century is explained easily through more efficient markets.

Efficient with respect to what?

Re:"The Ego"

[luis_a_espinal]

So, HP lost 65% of its market value and $100 million dollars, because they made stupid hiring decisions for their CEO. That is the self-correction. Whether Carly gets rich is irrelevant.

That is not self-correction. It is paying the price. Self-correction in a market, with respect to erroneous decisions, is when the rate of occurrence of that type of errors either diminish over time or the rate remains constant with the negative impact diminishing over time. Neither is the case.

Re:"The Ego"

[Jack Griffin]

Compaq's strength wasn't PC's it was x86 servers. The Proliant was the de facto standard for servers everywhere I worked in the 90's, and afterwards when rebadged HP. Even now 20 years on, they are still the go-to solution for rack servers.

Re:"The Ego"

[Jack Griffin]

The summer before the Compaq acquisition, she convinced HP employees to donate their bonuses and vacation days back to the company on a voluntary basis so that there wouldn't need to be a lay off,

And people swallowed this? I never get why people buy into this shit. Did she donate her bonus or salary? I'm guessing no.

Re:"The Ego"

[Jack Griffin]

Does anyone seriously think this woman will even survive the mauling of the Republican Primaries? She seems to have far too weak a reputation to make it that far. She will never get the opportunity to debate Hillary.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

That is not self-correction. It is paying the price. Self-correction in a market, with respect to erroneous decisions, is when the rate of occurrence of that type of errors either diminish over time or the rate remains constant with the negative impact diminishing over time. Neither is the case.

Ah, I see your problem: you fail to understand elementary economics and think that markets should ennoble the human race!

I'm sorry to disappoint you: markets don't make people or companies better over time on average; all they do is weed out companies that make bad decisions or that have become obsolete. But they get replaced with the same mix of good and bad companies we already have.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Efficient with respect to what?

Compared to mid-20th century. Today, buyers have a lot more information about products, can communicate easier with sellers, have a much larger number of sellers to choose from, and the act of buying, selling, and delivery has become cheaper and easier, all compared to 60 years ago.

Re:"The Ego"

[Sarius64]

Carly "The Ego" Fiorina.

Her ego covers a land mass the size of Maine.

They had a short piece on her this morning on NPR. She was attacking Hilary Clinton on not having enough experience in leadership, etc. I found it quite amusing. Like or hate Hilary, she has way more government experience (for better or worse) in her little pinky than Carly Fiorina.

Yes, her experience is at committing treason by accepting donations of upwards of $100 million from foreign interests while she was Secretary of State. I'd take Seinfeld over Hillary any day.

Re:"The Ego"

[Sarius64]

Name one thing she did a a US Senator. Try doing it without Googling some UI progressive talking point.

Re:"The Ego"

[Sarius64]

Sounds like Clinton, Bush, and Obama to me. What would be different?

Re:"The Ego"

[Sarius64]

Yes, her ringing achievements? Syria? Lybia? Benghazi?

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Or by one company correcting itself while two, three more go down the same bad path despite the obvious, in-your-face, cautionary example?

Cautionary example of what? Many companies do very well with hiring a marketing guy as their CEO. Many companies also understand perfectly well that their stock price prices include all properly discounted expected future earnings, not just the next quarter, so they do engage in long term strategy to the degree that it is rational.

If it were obvious what Carly was doing wrong, she would have been fired much earlier. You're sitting here with 20/20 hindsight making pronouncements about stuff nobody actually really understands. And, in fact, Carly got so much money (as do many CEOs of failing companies) because even if you want to hire and keep merely a mediocre CEO, it's going to cost you lots of money if your company is not doing well; a really good CEO won't even be talking to your company if there's a problem with it, good CEOs pick winners from the start.

When the phenomenon keeps occurring to the detriment of the entire national economy

Of course, the "entire national economy" would be doing better if every CEO ran their company perfectly; however, trying to achieve that through regulation was the core strategy of fascist economics, and it has failed spectacularly every time it was tried. The fact is that CEO skill is a highly skewed distribution and skills in any other area, with a few stellar performers and a lot of mediocrity and losers.

That's why we don't put government in charge of running the economy, but instead accept that this "phenomenon keeps occurring" and are satisfied with the fact that the market weeds out the losers, patiently and again and again.

Oh, and given your superior insights into how companies should be run, I assume you must be filthy rich, right? I mean, if you know ahead of time which CEOs are winners and which are losers, you can buy stock and sell stock accordingly.

Re: "The Ego"

[Sarius64]

Sonny Bono's wife says you're wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

Re:"The Ego"

[tehcyder]

When MBA professors mentions *this* as the biggest problem in American corporate culture (can your sense of irony for a second), then this is not idle shit talking.

And when individual companies do this, like, oh, HP, they pay the price. So, it may be a widespread problem, but it is self-correcting.

If you're a free market evangelist, everything in business is self correcting. And when it doesn't self-correct?

That's the fault of government interference.

So until all government is abolished, you always have an excuse why capitalism isn't perfect.

Re: "The Ego"

[tehcyder]

The problem with Hilary and the Democrats is that they are war mongers and crony capitalists of the worst kind, arguably even worse than the militaristic wing of the Republican party

Oh come on, they're not even in the same league as George W Bush and his friends.

Re: "The Ego"

[tehcyder]

Keep in mind that she has been in government for most of her life now, electing her is exactly the problem, career politicians.

Yes, it's like all those career lawyers in the law or career doctors in medicine. What do they know about Real Life TM?

When I ask an architect to design my house, I don't worry about trivilaities like his qualifications and experience in architecture. No, I ask him "did you do a paper round when you were 6 years old, and start your first business selling knock off mobile phones at 10?" Because that's far, far more important.

Re:"The Ego"

[tehcyder]

Bingo! I'd forgotten that! That definitely qualifies as a scandal, since her communications are supposed to be public.

It makes me wonder why there is all the fuss here in the UK about the Chilcott Inquiry into the Iraq war.

If all the Bush administration's communications are public, surely we can just copy them without needing his or Tony Blair's say so?

Re: "The Ego"

[FlyHelicopters]

Yes, it's like all those career lawyers in the law or career doctors in medicine. What do they know about Real Life TM?

If you actually believe that, then that is sad...

Part of the reason America exists is to break away from being ruled by people out of touch with average citizens. The idea was to have citizen leaders who would leave their private lives, go serve the country for a few years, then return home...

Instead you now have people who have never actually lived in the private sector, who know nothing about building a business, paying bills, and living within your means...

These people have spent their entire adult lives spending "other people's money", they do not know what a $10/hr job is really like, what it is like to hire and train employees is like, etc.

Re:"The Ego"

[thedonger]

Don't forget that Clinton was also a Senator and Secretary of State so she has experience in both the legislative and executive branches.

There are probably a few janitors with legislative, executive, and judicial branch experience.

Re: "The Ego"

[Hognoxious]

That may all be true, but it also isn't the reason she got elected to the Senate... She was the first Lady and Bill's wife, that is why...

Interesting. That made it mandatory to vote for her, did it?

Re:"The Ego"

[HiThere]

That's a reasonable thing to expect, but it doesn't seem to be a part of the current US political culture. Is it even any longer a part of the Japanese political culture?

Re:"The Ego"

[Captain Sarcastic]

<snip>Donald Trump... is more a comedy act than a candidate.

Now, if only he were funny...

Re: "The Ego"

[Archangel Michael]

Look at the wars going on right now. They are war mongers, they just get everyone else fighting proxy wars with each other, to the point where we are fighting a proxy war against ourselves!

And you think GWB was bad?

Re:"The Ego"

[reve_etrange]

It's a problem if they're only down to insufficient demand. It would be find if they were down and demand was adequate.

Re: "The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Oh come on, they're not even in the same league as George W Bush and his friends.

No, they are far worse. But at least had some plausible reason to start the wars he did, and he got Congressional approval. Obama just goes out and kills people.

Re:"The Ego"

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

If you're a free market evangelist, everything in business is self correcting. And when it doesn't self-correct? That's the fault of government interference. So until all government is abolished, you always have an excuse why capitalism isn't perfect.

The point of laissez-faire free markets isn't "perfection", it is freedom: you can't have a free society unless people are free from compulsion in economic matters.

It is lucky that free markets are also utilitarian, that is, that they provide better (though far from perfect) economic outcomes than progressive, socialist, fascist, or communist approaches to running the economy. But even if free markets didn't work better than some other approach, they would still be the only feasible choice if we want to live in a free society.

Re:"The Ego"

[DarthVain]

Even the microtrump is a pretty large unit of measure, the most common usage should be in trumphair...

Re: "The Ego"

[jwhitener]

where do you see scandal in the Obama administration or more specifically in its foreign policy?

There is none.

The fact that he turned out to be a middle of the road, don't rock the boat, conservative democrat, hasn't stopped conservative media from describing everything Obama does as causing the end of the world.

A pretty boring presidency if you ask me. Obamacare was....well something. It was helpful to most people, harmful to a smaller number of people, and in the end may help some long term costs, but it isn't the healthcare that most liberals wanted. Obamacare is a Heritage Foundation republican plan after all......

Other than that, he continue the foreign policy as usual, ramped up drone strikes, didn't pull us out of any war zones early, but merely followed along with plans laid down during the Bush years (at least with Iraq).

He did grant some benefits/amnesty to targeted sub-groups of illegal immigrants, but then again so did....every single president for the last 45 years....

Nothing Obama has done is either exceptional or unusual. But the amount of push back from congress and conservative media (most filibustering in history) is phenomenal. Well, there is one thing that is different about him.... hmm.. what could that be.....?

Re:"The Ego"

[jwhitener]

So in a way she's ideal for politics

Lets clarify that: "So in a way she's ideal for winning political campaigns". Because she will say anything, lie, etc..

She is in no way ideal for holding political office.

Carly...

[adary]

Carly was such an awesome CEO that I left HP after a 12 years successful career. At least I don't live in Murica so I won't have to leave if she gets elected by mistake

Re:Carly...

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Remember back in the 70's & 80's when HP was one of the top 10 companies in the world (including the then invincible Japanese) to work for?

Re:Carly...

[OzPeter]

Remember back in the 70's & 80's when HP was one of the top 10 companies in the world

Not only that you could feel smug about owning an HP calculator that used RPN

(Also HP test gear was the bomb. I know that they sold off that section to someone else, but I have no idea if the current iteration of test gear has the same reputation.)

Re:Carly...

[chuckinator]

They spun out Agilent for that role into its own company, so it wasn't a sell off to someone else. I can't speak to the quality of the equipment, but I know they're one of the big shops for that market.

Re:Carly...

[OzPeter]

They spun out Agilent for that role into its own company

Yeah my memory was dim on that.

But HP still managed get rid of the business that was the core of what Hewlett and Packard created in their garage.

Re:Carly...

[ArhcAngel]

You mean when Agilent and Keysight were Hewlett Packard and they didn't make PC's or printers? Yes I do.

And I was there the day Carley walked the spine at Compaq with Michael Capellas telling us all what a wonderful thing the merger was. Not a single person believed it would be. My supervisor who had been with the company for years (He had a three digit employee number) was let go shortly before I left for another position.

Re:Carly...

[rfengr]

Yes Keysight (AKA Agilent, AKA HP) still produces quality test equipment, and yes, I still use an RPN calculator. Sheesh, I can't use a non-RPN one.

Re:Carly...

[hey!]

What I think is weird is her defense of her dismal performance at HP, which is that the company did really well after she left.

I mean, hole-ee cow, there's a woman who's away to see the fairies.

Re:Carly...

[Crashmarik]

still have my gx, which after 18 years of daily abuse through highschool, university, postgraduate and beyond still has not lost one iota in keypress feeling

model M? ha!

Modded and overclocked 41cx here. Really you show me another company that inspired that kind of love for it's calculators.

Re:Carly...

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember back in the 70's & 80's when HP was one of the top 10 companies in the world

Not only that you could feel smug about owning an HP calculator that used RPN

(Also HP test gear was the bomb. I know that they sold off that section to someone else, but I have no idea if the current iteration of test gear has the same reputation.)

I too cried when she shut down the profitable calculator department just because "we don't do calculators, we do the future". I guess the future is ink-jet, except that there's none of those printers around anymore either.

Re:Carly...

[unixisc]

Carly was such an awesome CEO that I left HP after a 12 years successful career. At least I don't live in Murica so I won't have to leave if she gets elected by mistake

That's the point! What exactly is she running on? She knows how the economy works? How did she demonstrate that at HP - spinning off Agilent and making HP another Wipro? She understands the world? Like her speech in a post 9/11 world about how great the Islamic world was? She would have figures lower than Bob Dornan or Allan Keyes ever did, and she'll probably get fewer votes than Ben Carlson in this election

LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[MickyTheIdiot]

"I think I'm the best person for the job because I understand how the economy actually works. I understand the world, who's in it, how the world works."

Oh Carly.. setting yourself up for a stand up career?

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[pushing-robot]

She can see the economy from her house!

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[houghi]

Many people understand how it works. What I want to know is how it will be fixed.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[geekmux]

"I think I'm the best person for the job because I understand how the economy actually works. I understand the world, who's in it, how the world works."

Oh Carly.. setting yourself up for a stand up career?

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

That's the punch line.

The joke would be to assume she could do anything to improve what we laughingly call an economy.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

Many people understand how it works. What I want to know is how it will be fixed.

The economy already is fixed. That's the problem.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[lbmouse]

Why do I get the feeling that her next sentence was going to be, "Let them eat cake."

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[jythie]

Even if she had been a successful CEO, CEOs have about as much knowledge of 'how the economy works' as web developers have about semiconductor design. She knows how to use the economy, but how it works or how to build an efficient one is a completely different skillset.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[roman_mir]

Actually very few really understand how it works today, which is why it will not be fixed, because the way that people think they understand it is wrong, they don't see the actual problem so the solution cannot be understood if people don't understand the problem in the first place.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Archangel Michael]

We have the economy that the politicians designed. See the problem yet?

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[chilenexus]

For most people who claim to understand it, the whole problem seems to be "not enough of it funnels into MY wallet!"

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

She is a pro at cutting costs... and cutting and cutting, but she can't build a business. And she would probably want to remodel all of Air Force One. and Probably want Air Force Two and Air Force Three on standby 24/7. She would probably want all currency reprinted with her image on every bill, just like she took down Bill and Daves pictures in all the HP Lobby's.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[tompaulco]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

Being in debt is not so bad if you are making more money from the borrowed money than your debt service is costing you. The reason debt became an evil word is because most Americans use debt to buy things that they can't afford to buy outright and that decrease in value. Debt used to buy a house is not evil debt (although it hasn't paid off well in the last 10 years or so.) Debt used to pay for a vacation because you can't afford the vacation without making payments on it, is bad debt. Debt used to buy a car is bad debt unless you already had the money to pay cash for it and chose to invest that money in something that earns you more than the car loan interest rate.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[drooling-dog]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

And yet investors all over the world are falling over themselves to loan money to Uncle Sam at virtually zero percent interest. If the size of the deficit were considered a big problem by serious money, interest rates would be very much higher than they are.

That said, it's been a long time (Eisenhower, maybe?) since having Republicans in the White House has been good for deficit reduction!

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Hognoxious]

Or you need the car for work.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[sl3xd]

Get real.

Not even North Korea has an economy that is completely what its politicians designed.

Even the (East) Germans, models of efficiency and planning they are, didn't have an economy that was completely planned by its politicians.

The US economy is one step away from anarchy compared to either North Korea or East Germany

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[roman_mir]

The US economy is one step away from anarchy compared to either North Korea or East Germany

- ha, if by one step from 'anarchy' you mean the Federal Reserve bank, the IRS, FDA, EPA, FCC, FBI, FDIC, DHS, FHA, departments of agriculture, business, interior, education, health care, labour, etc. Sure, 1 step being 99% of what governments (federal and state and municipal) do.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[bkmoore]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

That's the punch line.

The joke would be to assume she could do anything to improve what we laughingly call an economy.

She could do what she did at HP. Revoke americans of their citizenship until the budget is balanced. Problem solved.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Whorhay]

I think it really depends on how much car you are buying. I don't see anything wrong with taking out a small loan to buy a quality used car. The definitely bad example though would be a friend of mine that as an E-3 bought a nearly $40,000 sports car almost entirely on credit straight out of training. He spent the next 4 years of his life on a starvation diet trying to keep ahead of the loan payments and insurance.

So yes, you frequently need a car in order to hold a job. But you have to be shrewd about it and buy the car you need, not want, at a price you can readily afford even if you are temporarily jobless at some point.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[FlyHelicopters]

The economy already is fixed. That's the problem.

Millions of Americans working for less than $10/hr and millions more Americans unemployed would tend to disagree with that.

The economy is fine for the upper 25%, it sucks for the bottom 50%.

I'm in the 3%, I'm doing great.. but I can see from my lofty perch that it sucks for a whole lot of people...

I took my kids for ice cream to ColdStone yesterday, we ate outside at the park that is next to the store, it is lovely... and I commented to my kids that if they don't learn useful skills, that job is what'll they'll end up doing... We make in about two weeks what the kid in there makes all year... and that kid's job will be replaced in our lifetimes by a robot, I have no doubt...

It is a problem that no one wants to talk about solutions that would actually work... (just taking my money and giving it to the kid isn't a solution, do it too much and I'll leave)

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[ceoyoyo]

Debt is okay if you use it to invest in things that will make you more money than the interest payments. Since the US also has a large deficit, and the debt to GDP ratio has been rising for the last thirty years, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[phantomfive]

Being in debt is not so bad if you are making more money from the borrowed money than your debt service is costing you.

Oh, good thing the US made so much money off the borrowed money spent on the Iraq war.....oh wait, they didn't. So yeah, being in debt is bad.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Pikoro]

I knew a guy like that when I was in. He was an E-3 and he bought a really nice brand new Corvette. After the loan payments and insurance, he didn't have money left to put gas in it and actually drive the damn thing.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[geekmux]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

And yet investors all over the world are falling over themselves to loan money to Uncle Sam at virtually zero percent interest. If the size of the deficit were considered a big problem by serious money, interest rates would be very much higher than they are.

You find it shocking that criminals loan other criminals money at a decent rate in order to keep the illusion up that the value of the entire system is still worth the paper it's printed on?

FFS, that's more confusing than labeling an 18-trillion dollar debt an asset in loan negotiations.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[drooling-dog]

So you're saying that interest rates are somehow being manipulated downward to hide the magnitude of the deficit? Since the deficit is a known quantity, why would anyone take that deal? In the sane world, creditors demand a premium for assuming greater risk. If there's a stronger economy out there offering a higher rate, they'll go there in a heartbeat.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Cederic]

I believe you want definition number 32:
http://dictionary.reference.co...

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Agripa]

She has experience breaking economies anyway so she has that going for her.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Agripa]

The economy already is fixed. That's the problem.

Then she is the perfect person for the job. If anybody can break it, then she can.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[fatwilbur]

And yet investors all over the world are falling over themselves to loan money to Uncle Sam

There was a time in very recent history when this wasn't true, and all that happened is the Fed stepped in and bought "assets" on the open market instead. This is one of the primary reasons for such low interest rates since 2008 - the Fed is paying top dollar for those debt notes. Remember yield and price move in opposite directions, and as the Fed started buying up trillions of dollars worth of debt, prices went up and yields went down.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[geekmux]

So you're saying that interest rates are somehow being manipulated downward to hide the magnitude of the deficit? Since the deficit is a known quantity, why would anyone take that deal? In the sane world, creditors demand a premium for assuming greater risk. If there's a stronger economy out there offering a higher rate, they'll go there in a heartbeat.

100 years ago the Bank of England drove the global economy and the British Pound was the unit of measure.

Today, the most valuable piece of paper in the world happens to be the US Dollar, which lies in stark contrast to our national debt and ability to budget.

Given what our economy has done in the last decade, along with the criminals who almost broke the whole damn thing in 2008 that are still running it, I find it hard to believe that anyone has faith in a system shored up with smoke and mirrors that ignores laws and policy, choosing to operate under and around the law and when caught, laugh in the face of regulators and pay the fine every time because it's worth it.

I promise you it won't take another 100 years for the world to wake up. In fact, all it will take is to allow greed to run rampant again. We sure as hell haven't done a damn thing with laws or regulations to prevent another crash, nor would we enforce them anyway.

The illusion around this entire system makes Bitcoin look like a rock-solid investment.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[Jack Griffin]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

And? Stupid people like to throw the word debt around with big numbers as if we should all be scared. Big numbers! Debt! Be afraid!
My mortgage is 4x my annual salary, as is considered in the low risk range. The US national debt is 1x GDP yet this is somehow an issue?

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[tehcyder]

I suppose the noise from your helicopters drowned out the "whoosh" there.

Re:LOL LOL OMG.. HAHAHAHA

[jwhitener]

The country is 18 trillion dollars in debt.

Being in debt is not so bad if you are making more money from the borrowed money than your debt service is costing you. The reason debt became an evil word is because most Americans use debt to buy things that they can't afford to buy outright and that decrease in value. Debt used to buy a house is not evil debt (although it hasn't paid off well in the last 10 years or so.) Debt used to pay for a vacation because you can't afford the vacation without making payments on it, is bad debt. Debt used to buy a car is bad debt unless you already had the money to pay cash for it and chose to invest that money in something that earns you more than the car loan interest rate.

Well, and none of that debt has anything to do with Government debt. Comparing government debt to household debt is what leads to very misinforming reporting on the subject. https://www.google.com/search?q=difference+between+government+debt+and+household+debt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

All aboard the FAIL train

[davydagger]

This cycle's slate of republican canidates is so packed with FAIL is unbelievable. Most tollerable in the pack is....Rand Paul, who at least gets a handful of things right. But put her next to Ted "Obamacare for the internet" Cruz, and of course yet another member of the Bush family. Yes Jeb is looking to run in 2016.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[sunderland56]

This cycle's slate of republican canidates is so packed with FAIL is unbelievable.

So was the last cycle. Sarah Palin, Carly Fiorina - without nametags it would be hard to tell them apart.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[neoritter]

Any more fail than just the Dems Hilary Clinton?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as someone who would really like a Republican to vote for next election, you're entirely right.

Why are we getting these asshats? It's these fools that give a free market, fiscally responsible platform a bad name.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm so looking forward to watching Sanders kick her ass up and down the block.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Kjella]

The only way a marginal candidate is going to have any chance is if they announce early and get momentum, while the big names can afford to wait and campaign more intensively later.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Jethro]

I hope you brought something to read, because you'll be waiting a loooooong time.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Jethro]

I think you should run.

Seriously, can't do any worse, right?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Anonymous Coward]

Difference is Hillary is electable because she will keep the corporatist status quo in govt. Palin and Fiorina are unelectable because they are flighty buffoons...which makes rational people nervous.

Personally, wake me when the Republicans put up a serious moderate candidate and I'll consider voting for them again.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as someone who would really like a Republican to vote for next election, you're entirely right.

At the current point of time, anyone that isn't a lying scumbag out for his own would be desirable, nevermind the party affiliation.

I mean, Obama was a nice future president, no question about it. Just like Carter was a great former president.

But having a non-sucking current president would be nice for a change. One voting and serving of Obama should have been more than enough, but Romney? Seriously?

Anybody remember Eisenhower sending the Army South to put weight behind the Supreme Court's decisions against segregation? That guy was pretty serious about the Constitution and the division of powers. And had the guts to go with it. Compared to the current load of leeches and self-servers and despicable cowards, an actual patriot.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[TWX]

Fiorina's biggest fault is that the thing she's best known for, the thing which built her reputation, is a failure. Clinton is more of a mixed bag. Her tenure as a Senator and as Secretary of State have no glaring failures that define her time in those roles. She has some scandal building lately, but I'm not really sure how much of that is scandal, and how much of that is mudslinging now that the next political season is brewing.

I tend to stop paying attention to the media regarding political candidates once the campaigning begins, short of comparing their statements pre-candidacy with their statements after they've announced. Typically this is just to look for hypocracy as if a candidate is changing their platform simply to get elected then perhaps they should be passed over.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[OhPlz]

Why are we getting these asshats?

$$$

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[antiperimetaparalogo]

This cycle's slate of republican canidates is so packed with FAIL is unbelievable. Most tollerable in the pack is....Rand Paul, who at least gets a handful of things right. But put her next to Ted "Obamacare for the internet" Cruz, and of course yet another member of the Bush family. Yes Jeb is looking to run in 2016.

As a Greek i am used in political families/dynasties (in one way or the other we have a dozen such, running Greece the last century or so!) - the funny thing is that most Greeks pretend to hate it with passion, but it is done very democraticaly actually! I don't find it necessary bad since theoretically it can even be good, like an advertisement: "we [select dynasty] know how to govern [select country] since we do it from [select date] - a long family tradition, so you can relax and enjoy!"

From what i understand for the American political dynasties, it's not only the Republican party that has them, e.g., the Bush family, the Paul family (which, by they way, is a favorite of mine, both father and son), but you have them in the Democrats also with the Clintons, the Kennedys, etc.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[jythie]

Except for all those reporters they sent to Chicago.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Most tollerable in the pack is....Rand Paul

Which says a lot about the GOP. He however is terrible with dealing with reporters.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thedonger]

We need Gary Johnson. Which is why we will never get him.

In my little piss-ant berg of southern CT, we had a chance for a mayor not tied to the Democrat party (the Dem primary is basically the election; The Republican party sends out a candidate just for fun), but when it was clear he was popular and had a good chance to win, the Party made sure their choice was elected. The mainline Dems and Reps are on the same team; they don't really care which side wins, so long as it is one of them.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[RoccamOccam]

Insightful? This is hilarious. The Democrats had practically anointed Hilary, who should be on trial for a felony for her email scandal. Now, even the NY Times is trying to get someone else credible to run for the Dems, as the extent of her corruption has been revealed to be truly enormous.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[jandrese]

Certainly you have heard of a place called Bengahzi? The Republican attack machine already considers it the worst attack on America since the War of Independence and according to them she personally orchestrated the attacks with help from Khaleid Sheik Mohammad and George Soros. They'll eventually get that report out of Congress saying exactly this if they try enough times.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[OzPeter]

and of course yet another member of the Bush family. Yes Jeb is looking to run in 2016.

Last December I heard some conservative political commentator ripping Jeb to shreds because Jeb didn't speak like a 'murican. This commentator was objecting to Jeb using latino pronunciation when saying spanish words. With that sort of animosity brewing in places, Jeb is going to have a lot of trouble navigating the republican political machine regardless of how good a candidate he is.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[quantaman]

Speaking as someone who would really like a Republican to vote for next election, you're entirely right.

Why are we getting these asshats? It's these fools that give a free market, fiscally responsible platform a bad name.

It's the Tea Party, they destroy any candidate who isn't an ideologue. The only reason Romney survived last primary was he had a crapload of money and a huge existing profile, the only two potential candidates in that position this time are Jeb Bush and Chris Christy, any other moderate candidate will get destroyed as a RINO.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[XxtraLarGe]

Insightful? This is hilarious. The Democrats had practically anointed Hilary, who should be on trial for a felony for her email scandal. Now, even the NY Times is trying to get someone else credible to run for the Dems, as the extent of her corruption has been revealed to be truly enormous.

Nobody who supports Hilary Clinton cares about that.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

That's a very revisionist look at it. The fact of the matter is they sent a lot of people to Wasilla because she was an unknown and they kept finding newsworthy things. By 2008, if you didn't know anything about Barack Obama I would have to assume you were in a coma. He had been covered by the national press since the 2004 DNC convention.

The other thing about Palin that encouraged more reporting was her penchant for saying things that were blatantly untrue. They weren't shades of gray that another politician might get away with. They were facts she disregarded. Case in point: During the election, she repeatedly said she was cleared of any wrongdoing by the Alaska Legislative Council which was factually untrue. The council had found she abused her power. After the election a different board found that she reached an opposing conclusion and said she did not violate ethics rules.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Andy_R]

Isn't Derek Khanna the only Republican Slashdot likes?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

And the fact that her married a Mexican woman and had children with her must really cause them to seethe. She wasn't even a citizen when they married! Imagine the insult to the GOP base of marrying someone who isn't white and an immigrant! Jeb is doomed in certain parts of the base for this perceived travesty which is ironic because Jeb probably has the best chance of any of the candidates so far.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Archangel Michael]

You say that like it is a bad thing. Reporters SUCK at actually asking tough questions of people they fawn over, and are really good at asking ridiculous questions of people they hate. I have very little respect for the MSM reporters.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Except that in both cases, the reporters were asking tough questions. Or did you not read the article? Or view the clips? He simply came off as condescending and arrogant jerk. Shushing a reporter while they are asking you a question? Is that really a ringing endorsement of a candidate's ability to deal with people.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[OhPlz]

The TEA Party is not the GOP. I don't know what the point would be of those candidates being labeled RINO since the group wants conservatives to run. If Republicans were the answer, the TEA Party wouldn't need to exist. The TEA Partiers can just call those guys Republicans, they don't need the INO after the R. The problem is, the people rallied and no candidates appeared other than the Rs.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[swb]

I'd be curious what would happen if a Republican would be:

* Pro-market but without slavish devotion to specific big money interests or backing crazy tax cuts

* "No stance" on abortion. "I wouldn't have one but I'm not telling anyone else what to do"

* Pro-pot legalization "I wouldn't use it, but let's be honest, banning it hasn't worked and jailing people really hasn't worked. Let the states do what they want, like booze"

And the rest basic, run of the mill Republic policies.

Would they get run out of town for not genuflecting on abortion and big money, or would the establishment shit their pants as somebody who violated the party line on pot suddenly got a lot of interest?

Re: All aboard the FAIL train

[Anonymous Coward]

What's worse is when somebody in politics says something that is true, but nonsense.

Mitt Romney's comments about the size of the Navy under Obama versus right after WW1, for example.

Um, yeah, so what Mitt? You want one Carrier Battlegroup or the entire US p, British and Japanese Navies right after WW1?

Only thing I'd worry about is running out of shipkiller missiles.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

And Obama, Clinton .... all get a pass on this, because they say things that are untrue, that you actually believe. Do I need to list them for you or will you find out when the news reports it?

And when above did I EVER say anything that you allege? In fact, the main reason that the Lewinsky scandal exploded was because Clinton lied. It's not the crime; it's the coverup that draws the press.

Someone complained that they sent many reporters to Wasilla because of the "liberal" media. That's a distorted viewpoint. She was unknown. There were things to report. You know how many people were sent to Arizona for McCain or Delaware for Biden? Few if any because both them had served in the Senate for decades and were known to the press. Maybe they both have scandalous hidden skeletons but they may be better at hiding them than Palin.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thaylin]

Other than the so called "fair tax" I could support him.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[chilenexus]

Is a high approval rating all that hard to accomplish in a state full of do-it-yourselfers that want not much more than to be left alone? People get paid to live there, so it's the biggest welfare state we have without it being called welfare, meaning she didn't have much to do in order to run things. She still managed to get embroiled in misuse-of-power scandals, and she abandoned her cushy post on top of all that.

Being a business-person is not an analog for being a politician, so I don't know why people keep pushing the idea that because someone is good at one, they'll be good at the other. After all, a good businessman is all about getting the most for themselves and being sure to do what is profitable, not what is right. Politics should be about serving the country, while business is about taking all they can. Would you trust a government run by AT&T or Comcast?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

Her tenure as a Senator and as Secretary of State have no glaring failures that define her time in those roles.

Are you serious? The World is going to shit and she oversaw four years of our foreign policy. Russia is annexing parts of her neighbors, ISIS is on the march, China is bullying her neighbors, North Korea still has nuclear weapons, Iran may yet obtain them, and she was one of the biggest cheerleaders for regime change in Libya. That's just her list of "accomplishments" as SecState; wanna talk about her time in the Senate? Two words: Iraq AUMF.

I'd say her entire record as Senator and Secretary of State is a glaring failure. Why don't you proffer something she did right instead of saying she didn't completely fuck up?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[chilenexus]

Can you really expect anyone to take you seriously when you use the word "anointed"? It gets trotted out every election cycle and it tells me to to ignore the person using it - because if the only serious critique you can come up with is that the candidate or office holder is popular among their supporters, you're likely into your third jug of kook-aid for the opposition. (yeah, I saw that typo and decided to keep it - it fits the concept well)

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[DarkOx]

Except that just like in Broad terms Hillary's tenure as Sec State IS a failure.

I am not talking about Benghazi specifically in scandal machine since that she should have anticipated and prevent the specific attack where our ambassador was killed. However in a more abstract sense its a fine example of Hillarys failure, we "went in to Libya" with a certain set of objectives and the outcome looks nothing like that, the security and human rights situations are both worse.

Ditto for her handling of the rest of the "Arab spring". Tunisia is about the only thing you could call a policy success that happened are her watch and we had a very limited role there.

I don't think there is any major foreign policy success she can point at, other than USAID handing out a money (Which isn't exactly difficult). Our security and influence certainly did improve on her watch. She does not have any major legislative successes either as a senator. The most we can charitably say is her service in these roles was "adequate."

Back to Benghazi she immediately tried to blame it on that stupid youTube movie "the innocence Islam" or whatever the title was, and proceeded to try and prosecute the person who made it. From a communications perspective which is it? Are Islam and its followers peaceful members of a global community we can live side by side with our are they violent lunatics who consider an insult on youTube a just pretext for warfare? Do we support freedom of expression or do with stand behind the idea that censorship is sometimes called for? A leader ought to have strong positions on things things, yet only a couple short years later her take on Charlie Hebdo is almost opposite.

This is a pattern with Hillary, sure I can agree her views on crime might have reasonably evolved since the 90's if she was to run away from her husbands era of "tough on crime" fine, but in lots of other areas she is doing an awful lots of evolving awful quick, so quick it starts to look more like responding to opinion polls to me.

Then we have her handling of the "e-mail" scandal I am not saying she did anything but her handling of it did more to make it look like a coverup, which gets back to the messaging and communications problems. She should have turned the operation of that server over to a trusted 3rd party immediately, she didn't. Its a lot like all of her memory and record keeping problems from the "White water" era.

Here again even if I set the whole scandal and legal aspects aside, we are left with someone who thought in 2009 that doing State Department business on her private mail server was a good idea. What sort of judgement is that? Next Bradly Manning happens and thought all that and the opsec questions it raised she never considers that her personal IT contractors might pose the sort of risk. Apparently the vetting and monitoring of active duty intelligence personnel (however junior) did not cut it, but Clintons' "guy" could be trusted?

Near as I can tell Hillary is where she is because she married Bill, who had the talent to get himself elected governor than president. Hillary got thrust into money/power/politics and has since not blown it so badly as to loose it, but never could have got where she is on her own. Which isn't to say Carly is any better a choice. Hillary's candidacy however would be a joke (like Carly's) but for the fact the rest of the national Democratic party lacks anyone with a decent brand. They are either unknown, older than igneous rock, or the special kinda of crazy that if allowed to speak more publicly risks making Ted Cruz sound normal.

The GOP is like the Red Skins, relatively few like the brand but the individual players all find their fans, the DNC is like the Starts & Stripes, more people have a favorable view of the team just don't ask them to try and name any players.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[TWX]

The GOP is like the Red Skins, relatively few like the brand but the individual players all find their fans, the DNC is like the Starts & Stripes, more people have a favorable view of the team just don't ask them to try and name any players.

This is exactly what's wrong in politics these days. Politics is not a spectator sport. There aren't simply two teams vying for the prize of being elected and using that as the trophy to put in one's case. Treating it like a spectator sport completely ignores the whole point of the exercise, which is to effectively govern the wealthiest nation in the world, and to see to the interests of both the nation and the persons in that nation.

As for Mrs. Clinton, before she was First Lady she obtained a Doctorate in Law from Yale and worked as a lawyer, as well as having served on corporate boards. My guess is that her time as First Lady was probably frustrating since First Ladies generally cannot continue their professions after their husbands take office. The friction when she attempted to work toward Universal Healthcare the first time around is proof enough of that.

I'm no fan of Hilary Clinton, and she definitely failed on-style when she was First Lady, but I can look at her academic and professional records and see that she has experience in several different areas that might make her a successful President.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[kimvette]

We need Bernie Sanders and Robert Reich.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thedonger]

Other than the so called "fair tax" I could support him.

What don't you like about it?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thedonger]

Other than the so called "fair tax" I could support him.

What don't you like about it?

Considering the (un)likelihood of it ever passing congress, and the fact that any other candidate I can think of has way more dings against him or her, he is a winner in my book.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[tompaulco]

You do realize that being the Governor of Alaska is the equivalent of being a mayor in a mid size city.

From a population perspective maybe. From a geographical area that she was responsible for, it would be like being governor of about 1/3 of the states in the country. Population is not the only determination of how difficult it is to govern. Alaska deals with huge geographic area, climate, large numbers of small remote locations requiring infrastructure, political hotspots due to oil reserves, proximity to occasionally unfriendly nations and a host of other problems that the typical state government doesn't have to deal with.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[smooth wombat]

Or maybe just ignored all warning signs and calls for help... denied doing so...

Which are of course patently false. Even the first Republican-led investigation stated as much and a former member of the CIA who was involved with the investigation categorically stated no such orders were ever given.

Even those in the military who were on stand by said no such order to stand down were ever given.

But hey, anything to keep the lie alive, right?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Why didn't the reporters do the same thing with a Jr Senator from Illinois? Remember, he was just a couple years into his first term as Senator, voting "present" more often than anything else.

Because what you allege is factually untrue unless you want to redefine 3% as "more than anything." Senator Obama voted "present" 129 times which is 3% of the 4,000 votes he cast. This is why no major news picked it up; it wasn't really news and it wasn't true. Second, in the Illinois Senate, the "present" vote is often used to as disapproval of measure without having to vote "no." Simply put it: Your facts are wrong.

Red Flags abounded, but he was "black" and "dynamic". Having the first "campaign" meeting at the house of two former (or still) radicals wasn't a hint of things to come

So you are alleging is that having a meeting at someone's house is a wringing endorsement of everything about the host? That must mean that Ted Cruz is most definitely gay. Are you really that naive in thinking that when raising funds you can only attend functions with people you agree with 100%. Seriously are you that naive? Or do you recognize that you need a broad consensus and support for offices like Senator.

While Palin was new to the National scene, she didn't get elected Governor because she was a woman,

And I have never said anything about her gender up until now. You are the first to mention it. Being a woman wasn't her problem. Being Sarah Palin was her problem.

she pissed off a lot of people both (D) and (R) up there. She was just too "small town" for national appeal.

No, she didn't get elected because people thought she was dumb. I personally believe the stories that she didn't know the difference between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. That she didn't know there were two Korean countries. That she didn't know the Queen of England does not actually run the UK. These are simple things that she could have known if she was basically aware of history or the world. Now the if the average American does not know these things it is merely a shame; someone wanting to run the country needs to know these things.

The (D) and (R) power brokers love fancy city slickers ... that is unless you're Bill Clinton ;)

Really, is that why George W Bush was President? Or why retired Naval Captain John McCain is a Senator.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[RoccamOccam]

Sure, because that is what happened. I'm not using "anointed" as a criticism of Hilary, I'm using it to refer to the lack of credible Democratic contenders. It's a term that is used to show that possible contenders have stepped aside and have ceded the field to one player. It very much described what has happened to the Democrat's nomination process.

I suspect, however, that you really don't have anything to say about the substance of my post, so you choose to try to make an issue out of the way that I said it -- "it tells me to to ignore the person using it". And then, you go on to say that was my only serious critique - when that wasn't my critique at all. How droll.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thaylin]

That it is such a regressive tax.

First the tax is inclusive, they do it that way because it is a 30% sales tax, exclusive, but by claiming it is inclusive they make it seem like it is only 23%.

Then the prebate that they claim will offset the cost to the lower and middle class is an exclusive 23% meaning that it does not fully offset the 30% exclusive tax.

Secondly there are many people with current houses who based their affordability of those houses based on the lower tar rate that the credits/deductions provide and they would lose those, putting them in a place to lose their home.

It is being played as a way to reduce taxes, but it really only does that on the wealthy and businesses and places that burden on the poor and middle class. You cannot do away with more than half the tax income, business and wealthy, and not make it up someplace else.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[jittles]

Its a lot like all of her memory and record keeping problems from the "White water" era.

The same White Water era in which Hillary denied the police access to the office of her and president Clinton's chief legal counsel after he was apparently murdered or had committed suicide?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Alaska deals with huge geographic area, climate, large numbers of small remote locations requiring infrastructure, political hotspots due to oil reserves, proximity to occasionally unfriendly nations and a host of other problems that the typical state government doesn't have to deal with.

And as such Alaskans are much more independent and rely much more on their local governments than the state government for these reasons. That would make her job easier not harder.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Are you serious? The World is going to shit and she oversaw four years of our foreign policy. Russia is annexing parts of her neighbors,

Yes because her being in her post for 4 years can reverse the 12 years of Putin rule and the undo decades of Ukranian-Russian tensions in Crimea. Yes, totally her fault on that one.

ISIS is on the march

Because the US removal of Saddam Hussein under Bush leaving a power vacuum which fomented and led to the rise of ISIS is completely Clinton's fault.

China is bullying her neighbors

I agree with you 100% that Hillary should do something to undo China's tendencies that they have had for decades.

North Korea still has nuclear weapons

Yes because she should have parachuted in James Bond style and erased their program which they had been building for decades especially after their first successful test while Bush was in office.

Iran may yet obtain them, and she was one of the biggest cheerleaders for regime change in Libya. That's just her list of "accomplishments" as SecState; wanna talk about her time in the Senate? Two words: Iraq AUMF.

So far your biggest complaint about Hillary is her lack of a time machine to change things that have been decades in the making and happened before her time as secretary.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[DarkOx]

This is exactly what's wrong in politics these days. Politics is not a spectator sport. There aren't simply two teams vying for the prize of being elected and using that as the trophy to put in one's case. Treating it like a spectator sport completely ignores the whole point of the exercise, which is to effectively govern the wealthiest nation in the world, and to see to the interests of both the nation and the persons in that nation.

Its a matter of perspective though. From my perspective as a voter you are correct. If you are Reince Priebus, or Debbie Wasserman Schultz than it is a "team sport." You job is to maintain the influence of you party, you do that by winning the most elections for the most powerful offices; the most trophies so to speak.

Looking at in those terms to do you spend most of resources practicing the beat the least funded teams in the league, lets call them the Green party, the Libertarians, who you will likely beat anyway or do spend your efforts to try and defeat the big rival? Additionally do you look at your problems in things you have some control over brands, marketing strategy etc; or do spend your effort on broad policy research and development only to have half your people go rogue once elected anyway?

I think understanding politics and being effective no matter who your requires looking at it both ways, as purely competitive game, and a system of government.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[danbert8]

The Fair Tax might be a difficult transition, but it is better for the economy in the long run. It reduces consumption instead of an income tax that reduces income. It would encourage people to invest and save their increased income instead of spending it on consumable goods.

The other half of the equation is reducing government spending to offset the lower taxes called for by the Fair Tax as proposed by Johnson.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[danbert8]

You mean Gary Johnson? I guess he's more libertarian than they would allow in the debates last go round. Or maybe Ron already fulfilled their 1 libertarian in the debates allotment.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

Because the US removal of Saddam Hussein under Bush leaving a power vacuum which fomented and led to the rise of ISIS is completely Clinton's fault.

Which part did you miss? The part where Senator Clinton voted in favor of the AUMF that authorized the Iraq War or the part where she served with an administration that made "regime change" in Syria national policy? Perhaps both?

You may be willing to stick your head in the sand and forget about the AUMF but I'm not. HRC was a policymaker when the seeds were laid for every problem that I outlined. She does not get a pass. Your knee-jerk defense of her suggests to me that you're a Democratic partisan and not worth taking seriously.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

Oh, by the way, your criticism of GWB, that he deposed a regime and created a power vacuum leaving an opening for Islamic extremists:

Because the US removal of Saddam Hussein under Bush leaving a power vacuum which fomented and led to the rise of ISIS is completely Clinton's fault.

Did you pay attention to what we did in Libya? Or who the Secretary of State was while we were doing it?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[butchersong]

A moderate Republican candidate will lose them the election. The simple truth is that the Republican base turns out in stronger numbers than the Dems when a conservative candidate is fielded and that is how they win elections. The Republican leadership isn't comfortable with this so may very well attempt a moderate but if so they will lose.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[butchersong]

Look I don't really have a dog in this fight but is there anything that could have gone wrong under her watch you would have been willing to hold her accountable for?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Oh, by the way, your criticism of GWB, that he deposed a regime and created a power vacuum leaving an opening for Islamic extremists:

You missed the point. It was not a criticism of GWB as pointing out to you the EXACT reason ISIS came to power. But it must be Clinton's fault right?

Did you pay attention to what we did in Libya? Or who the Secretary of State was while we were doing it?

The US did nothing really to foment the crisis in Libya as it is a civil war. As opposed to Iraq where the US went in an army and occupied the country for more than a decade. Thus the other Muslim countries are not upset at the US about this. See the difference?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Which part did you miss? The part where Senator Clinton voted in favor of the AUMF [wikipedia.org] that authorized the Iraq War

Yes she voted for AUMF. And as a member of the Senate she was in charge of the Bush administration's diplomacy? She was in charge of the military decisions of the Bush administration?

or the part where she served with an administration that made "regime change" in Syria national policy? Perhaps both?

What are you smoking? The administration is criticized for not doing enough in Syria and your complaint is that they made "regime change". Again you must on something really powerful.

You may be willing to stick your head in the sand and forget about the AUMF but I'm not.

You are apparently fixated on her as being one of 98 Senators and 420 Congressmen who voted for it. You seem less fixated on the Bush administration that misrepresented the justifications as well as mismanaged the war. But yes blame one Senator.

HRC was a policymaker when the seeds were laid for every problem that I outlined.

Really, she could have stopped North Korea from developing nukes? Something that the CIA, MI6, Mossad could not do. Are you serious?

She does not get a pass. Your knee-jerk defense of her suggests to me that you're a Democratic partisan and not worth taking seriously.

I'm a registered Republican but like all things, your assumptions are telling of what kind of logic you use.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

That maybe so but what if like many Americans she was misled about the true nature of Iraq's threat when she voted? Remember 97 other Senators and 420 Representatives joined her including Kerry, McCain, Biden, Saunders (Congressman).

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Look I don't really have a dog in this fight but is there anything that could have gone wrong under her watch you would have been willing to hold her accountable for?

My question is why are you willing to blame her for everything that has happened to the US under her watch? Why do you have that need? That's like me needing to blame Collin Powell for 9/11. He was the Secretary of State at the time.

So far many of the things that have been complained about took decades to come to fruition and some of them are not diplomatic in nature. For example, ISIS is a terrorist organization but that is somehow Clinton's responsibility not CIA or NSA according to the parent. The administration's failures to act in Syria is something that reflects badly on Clinton. The unrest in Yemen may also prove to be a negative on Clinton's legacy.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

I'm a registered Republican but like all things

Good for you. You're also adept at putting words into my mouth. But feel free to excuse away HRC's bad judgment if it makes you feel better.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

Remember 97 other Senators and 420 Representatives joined her including Kerry, McCain, Biden, Saunders (Congressman).

Basic fact fail. The vote was 297-133 in the House and 77-23 in the Senate. There were plenty of brave voices willing to stand up against the Iraq War. HRC was not one of them. She does not get a pass for that clusterfuck, nor any of the clusterfucks that occurred while she was serving in the Obama Administration.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

No, the destruction of nation-states (Libya, Syria, and Iraq) that created the conditions for ISIS to flourish are Clinton's responsibility. She was a policy-maker, not the policy-maker, but a policy-maker nonetheless who was in the room when these decisions were made.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[jeff4747]

You're getting these states because of demographics.

The 2016 Democratic candidate will start with 257 electoral votes. No Republican that can survive the primary will win CA or NY or similar "blue" states.

The Republican will start with 149. No Democrat that can survive the primary will win TX or AL or similar "red" states.

The Democratic candidate will need to pick up 1 large or 2 small "toss-up" states. So, pick up VA or pick up CO and IA. That will give them 270 or move votes. Both are quite "gettable" - all 3 in that list went for Obama in 2012, and in 2014 the Democratic candidate won the VA senate seat despite it being a Republican wave election.

The Republican candidate will need to pick up every single "toss-up" state, and turn one of the "blue" states to reach 270.

You have a clown car of candidates because the Republicans who can count realize they can't win the White House in 2016.

Here's a post on it with pretty pictures: http://blog.chron.com/goplifer...

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Bing Tsher E]

I for one am willing to blame Collin Powell for 9/11, if you're willing to acknowledge that Hillary Clinton had an abysmal record as Secretary of State, one that shows she would be a terrible choice for President.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Bing Tsher E]

As for Mrs. Clinton, before she was First Lady she obtained a Doctorate in Law from Yale and worked as a lawyer, as well as having served on corporate boards.

She rode the waves and reaped the benefits of being a political operator. She has come damn close to being disbarred a few times since getting that *ahem* Doctorate in Law.

She's cut from the same swindling shyster cloth as the husband who cuckolds her.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Bing Tsher E]

"It's Hillary's Turn This Time."

I remember when they said that about Bob Dole. I hope it turns out the same for kankles.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Bing Tsher E]

Imagine the insult to the GOP base of marrying someone who isn't white and an immigrant!

You go ahead and imagine, since this is apparently your pretend-time.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thaylin]

It still reduces income, and it still does not reduce consumption, just creates a larger used marketplace. Also saving is bad for the economy.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

So far much of what you have posted is against Hillary for things beyond her control. Again tell me how her bad judgement allowed North Korea to develop nuclear weapons when their first successful test was in 2006 under the Bush administration (especially since they had been developing them for at least two decades)? Tell me how her bad judgement as of the Secretary of State allowed a terrorist organization like ISIS to gain power and how the CIA or NSA do not have more responsibility when it comes to counter-terrorism. Please be specific.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

No, the destruction of nation-states (Libya, Syria, and Iraq) that created the conditions for ISIS to flourish are Clinton's responsibility. She was a policy-maker, not the policy-maker, but a policy-maker nonetheless who was in the room when these decisions were made.

Please explain how civil strife in nation-states like Syria where there is little American much like the Secretary of State's influence are Hillary Clinton's fault. Especially when Iraq's civil strife is caused by religious differences between Sunnis and Shia that have been brewing for the last 1400 years. You seem to not understand history.

She was a policy-maker, not the policy-maker, but a policy-maker nonetheless who was in the room when these decisions were made.

So the policy of the Obama administration are all on her? Really so you are at fault for what your boss or father decides?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

I for one am willing to blame Collin Powell for 9/11, if you're willing to acknowledge that Hillary Clinton had an abysmal record as Secretary of State, one that shows she would be a terrible choice for President.

So you are willing to blame the wrong person if it means you can hate on the person you dislike. Isn't that like saying you would support sending an innocent person to prison as long as a hated and possibly guilty person goes to jail? Where does your hate end?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

And have you called all of them out or is your hate still fixated on Hilllary?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

You have yet to posit one thing that Hillary knew that would implicate her.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thedonger]

This is exactly what's wrong in politics these days. Politics is not a spectator sport. There aren't simply two teams vying for the prize of being elected and using that as the trophy to put in one's case. Treating it like a spectator sport completely ignores the whole point of the exercise, which is to effectively govern the wealthiest nation in the world, and to see to the interests of both the nation and the persons in that nation.

Couldn't agree more. But we seem to have collectively decided that politics is hard, and best left to those career politicians, which I see as a necessary first step on the road back to tyranny. Celebrity worship + politics = royalty.

I'm no fan of Hilary Clinton, and she definitely failed on-style when she was First Lady, but I can look at her academic and professional records and see that she has experience in several different areas that might make her a successful President.

Academics is too abstract. The president is the CEO of the country -- I don't want a lawyer, academic, or career politician filling those shoes.

Gary Johnson for president!

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

What are you talking about? Name once that Hillary has stood up to anyone? Against candidate Obama she operated by leaks and innuendo, certainly not by controlling anyone or anything.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[danbert8]

This saving being bad for the economy thing is based on the premise that spending is what drives the economy and not investing. This is the same idea that drives massive spending, debt bubbles, and artificially low interest rates. How's that been working out for us?

The fair tax will increase incomes, not decrease it. And for the poor that means more money to take home and all the essentials are tax free due to the prebate. The rest is choosing whether to save the money and improve their future prospects or pay the same tax that they would have paid on their income but at the purchasing end instead.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

Because apparently no Democrat is ever responsible when people die due to inept policies. Just ask LBJ.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

Maybe his hate will end when you stop beating your spouse.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

How does a First Lady gain this sort of power? Elections? Hmm...

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

Funny how the "Democrats" ripped open Blair Hull and Jack Ryan's divorce records for the anointed one. http://www.economicpolicyjourn... http://www.chicagotribune.com/...

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Sarius64]

Hillary should just throw a few interns off a bridge or two to establish her Kennedy-like dominance.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[Shakrai]

Please explain how civil strife in nation-states like Syria where there is little American much like the Secretary of State's influence are Hillary Clinton's fault.

Please explain how you can be so fucking obtuse as to wave away the example of Libya (which she enthusiastically supported) and her vote in favor of the Iraq War AUMF.

On second thought, don't bother. You have nothing interesting to say and are conveniently ignoring the points that don't line up with your world view.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[richieb]

Academics is too abstract. The president is the CEO of the country

This is wrong on so many levels. See this article by Paul Krugman.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Please explain how you can be so fucking obtuse as to wave away the example of Libya (which she enthusiastically supported) and her vote in favor of the Iraq War AUMF.

So what you are saying is that after multiple but vague accusations when asked for clear and specific charges you won't give them. I'm not taking about Libya for the moment; however, you again said she was responsible for Iraq but provide no other reason than she voted for it.. You will not address the fact that as a Senator she had no say in what the Bush administration decided to do diplomatically or militarily when they were in charge for the early years. Being that ISIS is a terror organization, you are putting all counter-terrorism blame on her even though counter-terrorism is more the responsibility of the CIA and NSA. Being a US Senator and Secretary of State, she also bears responsibility of reversing almost 1400 years of civil strife between Sunni and Shia. In that she has as much responsibility as Kerry who also voted for the Iraq War AUMF and is now Secretary of State. Are you willing to blame Kerry as much? If not, is your hatred for her that deep?

Now let's talk Libya. What did she do specifically (and not the call of the administration)? If you are blaming her for everything that means you are to blame for everything your bosses does. Everything your father does. Everything your coach does. Again is your hatred so deep for a person that you can't see reason.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

Argumentum ad hominem.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[UnknowingFool]

And what does any of this have to do with Sarah Palin not knowing that there are two Koreas or that she might have had skeletons? What does this have to do with the factually untrue and easily verifiable statements by Archangel Michael? Politics are rough, especially Chicago politics. If you have skeletons, some one will find them. Palin wasn't ready for the storm or the candidacy that hit her.

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[thedonger]

Oh look, an opinionated academic saying we need academics to run the country. Weird. I'm sure plenty of racists think we need a Klansman to properly run the country.

Also, it isn't that I prefer the "CEO" of my local landscaping company to be president over an Ivy League graduate. What I don't want is someone with only academics and politics. When people bury their heads in statistics they become just as blind to their ideology as the Jesus-on-a-triceratops, young earth creationists. Even the ones like Krugman blathering on about inequality. We have too many rich people; our economy must be ill?

Re:All aboard the FAIL train

[richieb]

Did you read the article? Do you have any specific things you disagree with?

Her HP For America platform

[Applehu Akbar]

She's going to take this country away from the engineers and give it to the clueless executives who care about nothing beyond next quarter's numbers.

But wait - this already happened!

Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[aaarrrgggh]

Well, looks like this will be the election for a viable third party candidate. No dynasties, no Carly, no wingnuts. Please...

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[Needs2BeSaid]

"This is the year of Linux"

Seriously, do you think the media will willingly treat a third party candidate the same as a Republican or Democrat? Do you think that the mindless voters would choose a candidate that the media, left or right, isn't promoting?

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[MickyTheIdiot]

There are various reasons Stallman couldn't make it as politician, but the most relevant one right now is that in the US we can't have candidates that can't be packaged like a product. Stallman is loud. He has long hair. He has mistakes on his record because he actually DID things. Worst, he doesn't believe the corporation should win in all circumstances, and that is a must for any candidate because ALL candidates, D or R, are pre-approved by corporations because of our out-of-control, free for all campaign financing.

You want someone good in government? You are not going to get anyone good in the government when they have to look like someone from a University’s stock photography collection. You aren't going to get a good person who hasn't smoked dope or maybe hasn't had a depressive episode or two. You need someone who has worked in some clothes other than suit or a business dress. You need someone real. And this is NOT happening in the US right now.

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[OzPeter]

There are various reasons Stallman couldn't make it as politician, but the most relevant one right now is that in the US we can't have candidates that can't be packaged like a product.

Stallman could't be elected because (for better or worse) Stallman is an extremist and true believer. No-one who has such a rigid position - no matter what their politics - is electable.

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Not because he'd achieve anything (the machine will lock him out anyway)

I remember when Nader ran. Subtract the fact that the one campaign promise, he reneged on, he'd be a horribly ineffective President. Besides no direct experience, Nader trashed both Dems and Republicans. Who controls power in Washington? Dems and Republicans. Nothing constructive done.

I know politics is messy. It's about humans fighting for things. OF COURSE it's messy. It's baked in. It reminds me of Fawlty Towers... "this business would be great except for the customers". It's part of it.. you can't have politics without mess. Want to ignore it? then you'll be screwed, bitching about it just as if you're bitching about the weather.

I really don't get the "oh he's got no experience in politics, he's PERFECT". if i go to a sushi restaurant, i don't say "oh, this guy has no preconceived notions of food or cleanliness...YAY lets see what interesting things he washes his hands with" Running a big organization, like the federal government, is a big management job. What has stalman done that shows he can manage things? gcc got out of control. emacs? big fight with Lucid emacs. Hurd? not shipping for real yet.

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[Bing Tsher E]

"Nothing constructive done" sounds like an excellent government program. Where do we sign up? A tactic of someone in charge just plain shutting things down is even better than our plan of starving the fuckers out by taking away their tax dollars.

Re:Viable 3rd Party Candidate?!

[Jack Griffin]

To be a good politician you need to be good at politics, not good at Science, or Engineering, or Football. It strikes me as odd that not a lot of people understand this.

I slept with her in college.

[Anonymous Coward]

She kept shouting "UNACCEPTABLE" during it, and then finished on her own with some sort of power drill. It was the worst night of my life.

Re:I slept with her in college.

[Anonymous Coward]

Carla outsourced my job to an Indian guy named Sanjay.

Re:I slept with her in college.

[TWX]

If her standards are that the guy can hammer a six inch spike through a board with his penis, then I think we can give GP a pass...

Re:I slept with her in college.

[ewhac]

Huh. I always parsed Lemongrab as male...

Re:I slept with her in college.

[Bing Tsher E]

Carly officiated over the end of the gravy train for the boomer fucks who were just getting settled into their cushy labs at H-P. Sadly for the, the Cold War and the bottomless expenditures for, granted, awesome test equpment was ovah. The old school engineers were all about done and most were close to retirement, and those poor dear boomers were hoping to cash in.

Carly didn't make it happen, but HP was on the way down down down. The end of the Cold War assured that.

She did such a great job with HP

[QuietLagoon]

Let her do the same for the Country!

Re:Real reason

[MickyTheIdiot]

She did fuck all WHILE she was a corporate executive, too.

Why does the media take people like this seriously? I think the corporate media automatically fawns over a CEO. It doesn't matter that the CEO is a failure.

She is also the postergirl for "failing upwards" and the fact that we don't have any meritocracy in this country. She doesn't deserve to be a manger at Arby's at this point, and she doesn't deserve respect. But still the Corporate media fawns.

Oh yeah, sign me up

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

Carly would probably lay off Congress and ship all their jobs to India, spend 13 trazillion dollars to buy Somalia, end all federal highway and other infrastructure funds; and drive the dollar down to 1$ == 12 slices of bread.

Re:Oh yeah, sign me up

[MickyTheIdiot]

The people in congress are the equivalent of the corporate class. She would double or triple their salary.

Re:Oh yeah, sign me up

[Jethro]

> Carly would probably lay off Congress

See, that I could actually get behind.

Re:Oh yeah, sign me up

[TWX]

Plain mass-produced bread is around $1 per loaf, which is something like 30 slices. Fancier breads are more like $2.50 and have around 20 slices.

So, the baseline good, if it suffered inflation to meet the $1 for 12 slices, would mean approaching a 300% jump in inflation.

Re:Oh yeah, sign me up

[argStyopa]

I fail to see how laying off Congress and shipping their jobs to India would result in any possible lower value than we have in that body today?

Re:Oh yeah, sign me up

[sgt_doom]

Sweet Jaysus, you're good!!!!!

GWB with tits.

[Anonymous Coward]

A failure in business, just like the last republican president.

Re:GWB with tits.

[bkmoore]

GWB never claimed to be a business genius. I think that's the difference.

How does any candidate in 2015

[wiredog]

fail to register all the related internet domains. Like, for instance carlyfiorna.org?

Bonus: Demon Sheep!

Re:How does any candidate in 2015

[Marginal Coward]

Possibly because there are something like 500 gTLDs now. It would cost a fortune.

Point taken. But even in my small home business, I can afford to register the "big three" of .com, .org, and .net for each of the primary TLDs I own. I guess Ms. Fiorina must not have gotten a very good severance package from HP if she can't afford to do the same.

Re:How does any candidate in 2015

[Overzeetop]

That's what corporate deep pockets are for. She can pay them back* if she gets elected.

*with the congealed blood of a thousand rotting babies she used for target practice

Mitt Romney Deux?

[Pinky's Brain]

If the Republicans still don't want the presidency because the responsibility for the next economic collapse has to be put on socialism I think she has a good shot ... hard to find someone less electable, and if the Democrats push forward Clinton they need a real stinker.

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[MickyTheIdiot]

What socialism is going on? Really... I don't see it. Obamacare? It is a boon to private insurance. Obama is a corporatist, just like every president since Reagan.

They can blame socialism for whatever problems we have, but it is a hollow argument.

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[thaylin]

private insurance firms != private healthcare firrms. Insurance companies do not typically provide healthcare.

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[thaylin]

And in your massive ad homiem you still did not point to a single piece of socialism

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[chilenexus]

Considering he pointed out the distinction between communism and socialism, and provided examples the the continuing success and happiness of people that are using that system; then you get right back on the train of calling one by the other's name and giving it the blame for what that other did - that's some industrial-grade stupid there, son.

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[debrain]

What socialism is going on?

You mean what socialized programs are in the states? The list is pretty long, inluding e.g.

- Military
- Medicare
- Police
- FBI
- Public education
- Food assistance
- FEMA
- Road infrastructure
- Air traffic control

Of course there is also the socialization of losses on Wall Street, with the bailouts of the big banks by taxpayers.

Just some examples. Or have I misunderstood the question?

Re:Mitt Romney Deux?

[Zalbik]

Exactly right! The socialized heathcare of our more enlightened cousins in Europe and Canada don't have any private heathcare firms involved.

Oh, wait...

I'm from Canada...WTF is a private healthcare firm?

Re:The Only

[MickyTheIdiot]

Treating sexes equally means that when a hack comes our way we judge her just like a man.

Carly deserves nothing extra because she is a woman. She has been piss poor at every job she has ever taken and she is showing exactly the OPPOSITE in attitudes we need when we are at a time in history when we need some real (that is anti-corporate) action in government.

Actually, it makes sense

[bledri]

In general the GOP wants to reduce the size of government. She was very successful at reducing the size of HP. Clearly she is the perfect choice.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[Feral Nerd]

In general the GOP wants to reduce the size of government. She was very successful at reducing the size of HP. Clearly she is the perfect choice.

The GOP has been in control of both congress and the presidency more than once in the past. That equals the ability to do whatever the hell they bloody want. When was the last time you saw them use that situation to reduce the size of government? Republicans are really good at lowering taxes but they suck at reducing the size of government or the extent of government expenditure which is not surprising since they seem to have a pronounced fetish for fighting expensive land wars in Asia.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[TwoEyedJack]

RR reduced the number of pages in the Federal Registry by half.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[jandrese]

Actually firing people is unpopular, even when you are "lowering the size of government". It means taking services away from people and reducing government oversight. It's better to just spend recklessly and then force the next president into financial crisis after financial crisis so they are forced to make the cuts instead.

That's why "debt doesn't matter" when the Republicans are in charge.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[chilenexus]

By firing air traffic controllers and public mental health workers.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[sgt_doom]

You mean privatize everything, but still, under George Weasel Bush the gov't grew substantially.

Re:Actually, it makes sense

[bledri]

In general the GOP wants to reduce the size of government. She was very successful at reducing the size of HP. Clearly she is the perfect choice.

The GOP has been in control of both congress and the presidency more than once in the past. That equals the ability to do whatever the hell they bloody want. When was the last time you saw them use that situation to reduce the size of government? Republicans are really good at lowering taxes but they suck at reducing the size of government or the extent of government expenditure which is not surprising since they seem to have a pronounced fetish for fighting expensive land wars in Asia.

The GOP's primary tactic for reducing the size of government is completely in line with Ms. Fiorina's techniques used to reduce HP's size. Starve it of income and cut funding for developing future sources of income. This is exactly the GOP strategy. All the while they give the "base" what they want to keep getting re-elected. They keep sending out the social security checks, because not doing so is political suicide. They cut taxes, borrow money from social security and run up the deficit. It's intentional. When the whole system collapses under the weight of financial mismanagement, you "have to" cut programs and you get to blame it on the fiscal irresponsibility of the Democrats.

Like I said, Carly is the perfect GOP candidate.

P.S. Yes, the Democrats suck too. But not in ways compatible with Ms. Fiorina's skill set.

Bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, as everyone with three gray cells to rub together knows, she would make a terrible choice for president and she has just about zero chance of being elected.

I think it's safe to say that she's actually running for a cabinet position, and to stroke her own ego.

But beyond that, this is bad news, because it slightly lowers the odds of having a meaningful debate or dialog about the many issues facing the US, simply because she's such an ill-prepared candidate. And the further to the right the Republicans swerve (largely in order to assuage their wingnut base in order to get the nomination), the easier it is for Democrats to run as Republican Lite. As many others have pointed out, Bill Clinton and Obama would be considered right wingers in most modern democracies; we need an election pitting true conservatives against true liberals, with first-rate media coverage, debates, etc.

The odds of that happening are approximately the same as those of Linux passing Windows in desktop market penetration in the US this year.

Her campaign page is up.

[gcnaddict]

carlyfiorina.org makes for insightful reading. I understood a lot about her conservative economic position after visiting.

Re:Her campaign page is up.

[bledri]

carlyfiorina.org makes for insightful reading. I understood a lot about her conservative economic position after visiting.

That is awesome! :) Clearly she's a job creator! She created -30,000 jobs at HP, just think what she could do for America!

OP references imaginary article.

[Anonymous Coward]

The quoted story "nothing but love", which references "Carly's way", was pulled in 2005. It's a made up story by a palm reader. Learn to check your facts. Slashdot editing fail.

Re:OP references imaginary article.

[Anonymous Coward]

Complete OP and slashdot mod fail. Carly's love was a made up story, and even pulled from slashdot.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/403967/independent-investigation-findings/
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/404075/did-michelle-delio-fabricate-sources/

She could have been honest, for a change, at least

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

She could have said, "most likely they are going to nominate Hilary, and to balance the ticket you are going to look for a woman VP candidate, so let me throw my hat in the ring, for VP candidacy, I am a woman and I may be able to force them to spend money on California instead of taking it for granted". I don't think she can deliver CA for the red team anyway. But at least that is a plausible pitch. Instead of quietly contacting the candidates and letting them know she is running for VP she goes about it this way. Republicans won't run a senator or corporate CEO again, not after McCain and Romney. Thinking of Dubya and St Reagan they will go for a governor. Christie is out, that is why Walker is the front runner.

Just what we need in the oval office...

[dlleigh]

Another narcissist whose business failures are repeatedly blamed on others. (HP's market cap rose by billions on the day she was ousted.)

We need to diagnose narcissists early and send them all to Empathyless Island, where they can prey on each other instead of us.

A good article on why narcissism is bad, even in the cold, sociopathic world of capitalism.

Makes perfect sense

[nrasch]

I think this is a great move and makes perfect sense. Seeing as how all the govt. reps are already corporate shills we might as well just put their corporation masters right into office directly. It will save time and money, get rid of all this silly play acting that the govt. reps are actually working in the people's interest, and then we won't need so many lobbyist types trying to bridge the gap between the govt. peeps and their corporation masters. We'll already have the complete package in office making all those laws the corporation need so badly for their precious bottom line.

Failed CEO

[doconnor]

It's remarkable that she is just any random failed CEO, like George W Bush was, but she is the most notorious was well know failed CEO in the entire IT industry.

Look up "upwards failure"

[stox]

You'll see a picture of Carly right there.

Isn't there some vetting process?

[enjar]

I'd expect GOP potential candidates to be called into some back room at some billionaire's estate where they are politely told over Scotch and cigars lit with $100 bills that it would be in their best interest to spare the Old Party the embarrassment of them running, and to get back to towing the party line. Looking at the current crop, you have at most two people who actually have *something* of a shot, maybe a couple others who could come in as an "outsider", but the remainder are going to end up spending loads of time and money essentially writing the attack ads for the Democrats and associated PACs come the real election showdown. Hillary is going to sit around stockpiling money and letting the GOP tear themselves to bits with each one trying to sate the far right, which will produce a lot of on-camera sound bites of stuff that will sound godawful to anyone left in the center by the time the actual election rolls around.

I'm not a big fan of Hillary, but honestly the GOP at this point has me holding my nose and pulling the lever for her.

Re:Isn't there some vetting process?

[jandrese]

If you let a bunch of loons run it's pretty easy to look good by comparison. Look at Mitt Romney. A terrible candidate by most measures, but still better than all of the frothing at the mouth crazies he was running against. This is especially important if you don't have a good centrist candidate and you need to make him look centrist by comparison.

Re:Isn't there some vetting process?

[Archangel Michael]

billionaire's estate

holding my nose and pulling the lever for her.

You are under the false assumption that the Clintons aren't in the realm of billionaire status. The whole "Clinton Foundation" is a clever trick to get people to think that the Clintons actually care about anything other than power and wealth. It has been that way since Bill was Governor.

Re:Isn't there some vetting process?

[enjar]

I read that article, too. It takes away from Hillary, but honestly the clown circus on the GOP side is going to wear themselves out finding their own faults and making themselves look godawful. Chris Christie should just throw in the towel now, too, since he's pretty much associated with convicted criminals.

Re:Isn't there some vetting process?

[enjar]

I have no illusion that the Clintons aren't billionaires, nor have the rosy colored glasses on that Obama isn't helping corporate interests in very powerful ways. Like I said, holding my nose to pull that lever so that some theocrat and/or "enforcer of morals" in chief isn't in power. Or some guy who has been indicted for abusing power for political gain. We've now got nearly two of those in the GOP running.

Re:Isn't there some vetting process?

[jeff4747]

There used to be. But then Citizens United opened the money floodgates.

So now there isn't one back room. There's a dozen. Each telling different candidates to drop out.

vogons

[Anonymous Coward]

"She doesn't think, she doesn't imagine, most of the time, she can't even spell, she just runs things. And if we don't hitch a ride soon, you won't need the guide to tell you just how unpleasant she can be. She already destroyed a corporation today, and that always makes her a little... eeee! "

Re:The White House is on auction?

[ArcadeMan]

And it's cheap, too!

Re:She could have been honest, for a change, at le

[BillCable]

I agree, pretty much. I think she'll get backers that keep her relevant because the money understands there's an advantage to having a woman in the primary who can take shots at Hillary without getting slammed as sexist. I doubt she'll get on the ticket as VP, and I doubt she's vying for that role.

I also agree Walker looks like the front runner. He's still developing, but he starts from a very strong position. If he can avoid any major flubs that the media can run with, he has a real shot.

Arrrrrgggggghhhh

[Anonymous Coward]

First she drives me out of my career and now she wants drive me out of my country.

Degree in Medieval History and Philosophy?

[johofnovi]

The fact that she received a Bachelor of Arts in philosophy and medieval history from Stanford University in 1976 and then realized she was unemployable speaks volumes. Granted she went on to receive a more marketable education, but it doesn't help change my impression of her. Seriously? Medieval history? Who does this? It's like a bad joke.

Re:Degree in Medieval History and Philosophy?

[jythie]

Since human behavior has not changed all that much over time, medieval history is actually a really good starting place for analyzing modern political structures. It is not unusual to take test cases from hundreds of years ago (where we know the factors and outcomes) and plug them into models to see if they produce the expected results.

Though on the whole it is kinda sad how little respect we have for specialization that does not feed into consumer culture.

Re:Degree in Medieval History and Philosophy?

[gtall]

Yeah, you are right, we should all only have sellable careers because the world and the U.S. doesn't need to learn any history. Maybe you figure we'll be better automatons if we all have tech majors?

That said, she's a dolt, but not because she studied Medieval history.

Track record?

[X10]

She ruined HP. Now she wants to ruin the US? Hmm..

Re:Track record?

[Archangel Michael]

Too late. 16 years of Bush/Obama has been enough.

Re:Track record?

[Lead Butthead]

Ruin? No. She'll "improve share holder value." Probably something along the line of arranging for "merger" with China to reduce national debt, and become the "sole remaining super power (again.)"

Re:Track record?

[bugs2squash]

Well the Germans re-unified, maybe a unification of the US and China wouldn't be so bad over the long term. So long as I don't have to learn to speak Chinese.

Re:Republican

[TwoEyedJack]

There are more Rs at the state level than any time in recent history.

I do not get it.

[jythie]

Ok, she is not so stupid as to think she has an actual chance, just like many of the other contenders. So I am wondering, why does someone like her DO this? Status? Getting to be in the public eye? Bordom? Demonstration wealth by wasting it and impressing the neighbors?

What do these 'no chance' candidates get for all the time and energy they put into these runs?

Re:I do not get it.

[dlleigh]

She's not stupid at all. But she is a narcissist, which means that she actually believes that the world owes her admiration and greatness.

Her brain works differently from yours, and the vast majority of the population. This is not an area of rational thought for her.

Re:I do not get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a number of reasons.

1) VP- If you're different enough, you can unite the base by picking a VP from someone you ran with in the primary. Extra points if you pick something opposite gender or breed than you. So white males pick woman or minorities. Minority or women picks white males. Think Obama picking Biden and Clinton. McCain picking Palin, Mondale and Ferraro...

2) Media Job, Off the top of my head Fred Thompson, Herman Cain, Mike Huckabee, just to name a few all got radio and tv shows after losing their primaries.

3) Building name recognition for future runs. Running multiple times means you have to work less in the future. Think Clinton, Huckabee, Santorium, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, Romney these folks already have/had a base set up to run again, and they have/had a better shot second time around.

4) Admin Jobs. Ben Carson will probably be Health and Human Services pick regardless who wins. Assuming he's not picked for VP.

I think Mrs Fiorina is running to be VP. She's a woman, so she can attack Hilary and counter the "War On Women" BS. She' also has business XP. Although we know HP did poorly under her watch. The layman doesn't know anything about the downfall of HP. If she doesn't win, get VP, and doesn't serve on staff, she can always roll over her war machine into a second senate run. If memory serves me she didn't lose by too much the first time around. And it's probably the same operation doing the primary campaign.

Re:I do not get it.

[butchersong]

She isn't stupid you are correct. She is maneuvering for a VP spot I expect

Did Merica just spinoff all the good stuff?

[linearZ]

This woman's forte is taking an organization that just spun off all the great things it was known for, and re-branding that leftover crap. She can do this cheap - she knows how to hire H1-Bs. If we are truly fucked, then there is no one more qualified to make us fuckeder than Carly.

How the world works for BILLIONAIRES

[cmholm]

I appreciate Fiorina standing up a campaign as her personal contribution to the trickle down economy, but I don't think it will remain active long enough to employ more than a handful of people for a few months.

Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny how socialism has such a bad reputation in 'merica. It's automatically equated to "evil" Commmunism.

Of the top 10 most prosperous countries, half are socialist countries. Norway, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and Netherlands. Of the top 10 most happiest countries, the majority are socialist countries.

It's funny how much happier people are when they don't have worry about things such as primary and university education, housing, health care, insurance, transportation, etc. It's also interesting how that correlates to a more productive society, making the country in general more prosperous.

Denmark often ranks in the top 5 year after year on both lists. While they have a 60% income tax, the people still manage to have more money in their pocket than the typical American. Why? The costs of their necessities are ridiculously low because it's distributed amongst the entire population. Their net income is higher than a typical American who has to eat the high costs of living (for the typical American, almost 50% of your income goes immediately into housing [rent, mortgage, etc.], then tack on health insurance, car insurance, loan debt, etc.) While Americans are racking up quarter million dollar debts just to go to school, Danes get paid to get a Master's Degree at University. Or rather, they're getting their collective investment returned to them when they go to school.

ACA is a good step forward. If everyone pays for health insurance, the costs will come down. You'd think fiscal conservatives would be all over that. Well, they were when Romney did it, but then suddenly were against it "just because."

Re:Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[thaylin]

what is funnier is how people here equate anything socialized as being soclism, but love to forget that our military is socialized, roads, pretty much everything the government spends money on is socialized.

Re:Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[thaylin]

So than the ACA is not "socialized" as there is no production being socialized.

Also if you think the military does not generate value you are dead wrong. It generates trillions of value a year.

Re:Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[ceoyoyo]

Are you saying Americans would be happier if you broke up the country?

As a whole, the EU is similar to the US in population and geographical size but is older and more socialist. Canada is also on the happiest list. It's also a nation of immigrants, quite a bit younger than the US, and similar in geographic size, although about 1/10th the population. Also much more socialist than the US.

The OP is correct, the common factor seems to be the type of economic system.

Re:Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[Zalbik]

You can only socialize production, which means the generation of value

By that argument, you can't socialize medicine either.

You could claim that medicine produces value by preventing disease, but someone could similarly claim that a strong military produces value by preventing foreign aggression.

I'm not saying I would argue that way, just that valid arguments exist in favor of that position.

Re:Nothing wrong with Socialism.

[UnknowingFool]

You would be better off comparing the US (318 million) to all of Western Europe (397.5 million). Only that isn't a fair comparison either as Europe has a several thousand year head start on its development of infrastructure, its road system for example first started by the Roman Empire.

You had a decent argument that many countries that are socialist in nature are smaller than the US individually; however, practically all of Western Europe has socialized medicine which makes your argument somewhat moot. Second, while Europe had a much longer history than the US, you are aware that wars (like 2 World Wars) have required Europe to rebuild their infrastructure.

Depressing Shill

[Carcass666]

She was a regular on Meet the Press for a while, and she could always be counted on to parrot whatever talking points the American Enterprise Institute was distributing at the time. She always came across as an opportunist, trying to build her brand, with nary a thought of her own construction.

People criticized Romney because he ran on his business record, and that record included the elimination of many American job. In fairness to Romney, though, his job at Bain was to save companies, not jobs, and in this he was successful. In Fiorina's case, she presided over a disastrous merger of Compaq, basically destroying that brand, as well as seriously damaging HP's; and in the process, opened the door for lesser players, like Dell, to successfully infiltrate the enterprise. Her utter failure as a business leader, coupled with a near lack of independent political philosophy, are easy pickings for her primary competitors. If she somehow does make it to a VP candidate, she will serve only to galvanize the liberal voting base to organize against a failed corporate wolf in false feminist sheep's clothing.

Re:Depressing Shill

[chilenexus]

his job at Bain was to save companies, not jobs

Tell that to the folks that used to work for Kay Bee toys. http://www.politifact.com/trut... While he had left by the time Bain did their damage there, they were using the system that he had set up: Run up a large debt to purchase a company, assign the debt to that company, sell off much of its assets, and watch it burn.

Re:Depressing Shill

[Carcass666]

Totally agree. For better or for worse, the horrible business model you describe was not uncommon for Bain. I'm not saying Bain was not a company based upon evil, it is just that Romney happened to be good at it. In contrast, during Fiorina tenure at HP, about her only success was to maintain her own brand.

Re:Depressing Shill

[Carcass666]

Also, your point that Bain was mostly preoccupied with Bain's success and survival is very valid. It was a bit of a misstatement on my part to say Bain was concerned with the survival of companies, other their own.

Re:Depressing Shill

[UnknowingFool]

People criticized Romney because he ran on his business record, and that record included the elimination of many American job. In fairness to Romney, though, his job at Bain was to save companies, not jobs, and in this he was successful.

I have to disagree on this point. His job at Bain was to make money. If that meant saving a company made more money, that's what he did. If more money was made chopping it up to sell and shipping the jobs to China, that's what he did. Romney is a pure capitalist.

Observations....

[erp_consultant]

Carly has a specific role for the Republicans. Her job is to go after Hillary Clinton. If any of the male Republican candidates went after Hillary they would be accused of being "sexist" or some other form of "ist". Carly can get away with it because she is a woman. Sadly this is the world we live in.

Fiorina is the official attack dog for the Presidential campaign. It matters not whether she makes it through the Republican primary. If she succeeds in weakening Clinton then her job is done.

If Fiorina plays this right she might end up as the Vice Presidential nominee paired with whomever ends up winning the Republican nomination. These days, the VP ends up playing attack dog in the Presidential campaigns. The President is seen as being above the fray while his surrogates dish out all the dirty politics. Nobody will care about her failed HP ventures as a VP nominee. They will only see that she is a woman on the ticket and the Republicans will get points for that.

Re:Observations....

[grasshoppa]

Unfortunately for the republicans, Fox has been vetting Hillary for going on 8 years. There is little new dirt they could dish up.

I appreciate how terrified Fox is of Hillary given how strong a candidate she is ( especially when viewed against potential runners like Fiorina/Bush/Christy/Huckabee ), but their constant attacks on Hillary will really only benefit the democrats in the long run.

The irony is delicious.

( note: I hate all candidates/parties. Equally though, and isn't that what we're going for afterall? Equality! )

Re:Observations....

[erp_consultant]

Yes but this time Hillary really stepped in it. Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat it is impossible to overlook what she has done in recent times. The whole email server fiasco. The slippery dealings with the Clinton Foundation. The worst case scenario is that she has broken several laws. The best case scenario is that it looks really, really suspect.

This is not just some right wing conspiracy. She broke rules at the State department by storing official government correspondence on a private email server in her home. Then, if that wasn't enough, she destroys all the evidence.

The Clinton Foundation stinks to high heaven. Millions of dollars flowing in from foreign governments while Bill gets huge speaking fees followed by contracts being approved. All within the space of a few days. Not just once but many times over the course of her tenure at the State department. The Clinton Foundation now has to refile tax returns going back 5 years because of misstated donation amounts and donations not recorded at all. Only 10% of the money the foundation collects actually goes to the charitable causes they support. 10%. Where did the other 90% of the money go? If you are a doner how would you feel knowing that only 10% of the money you donated actually reached the source? This completely invalidates the claim that the donations were simply humanitarian in nature. Obviously the money was to curry favor. The doners could care less what happened to the money as long as they get their quid pro quo.

Re:Observations....

[JustNiz]

You're not trying to suggest that there's any such thing as a US politician that isn't corrupt are you?

The system itself is making sure there can't be... politicians have to "play the game" in order to get anywhere in the first place, so the system is actually weeding out the really honest guys (i.e. the guys that we actually want to run) by making sure they can't even get a start.

This is also why all the parties get involved in dirt-digging and mud-slinging... they all know there's no way any candidate can be actually clean. You may have to dig to find it, but the corruption must be there somewhere.

Re:Observations....

[erp_consultant]

"You're not trying to suggest that there's any such thing as a US politician that isn't corrupt are you?' - Not in the least. I think that there are some honorable politicians but once they get to the top of the heap all the morals are left behind. Having said that, it doesn't excuse Clinton's behavior by saying that everyone else is corrupt. That's just a cop out.

Re:Observations....

[JustNiz]

>> it doesn't excuse Clinton's behavior by saying that everyone else is corrupt. That's just a cop out.

I agree and actually didn't (intend to) say that. I was more lamenting the lack of choice than anything else.

>> I think that there are some honorable politicians but once they get to the top of the heap all the morals are left behind.

I see ith the other way actually. I think that its only after they have gotten so high there's nowhere left to go that they stop fucking people over and start worring about their sould/legacy/image/payback.
Most 2-term presidents do some token thing close to the end. Bill Gates is a perfect example of an absolute bastard who fucked over many people, now trying to get perceived as a good guy (while still actually fucking people over).

Re:Observations....

[erp_consultant]

"I agree and actually didn't (intend to) say that. I was more lamenting the lack of choice than anything else." - Point well taken.

"Bill Gates is a perfect example of an absolute bastard who fucked over many people, now trying to get perceived as a good guy (while still actually fucking people over)." - He's just taking a page right out of the Robber Baron's playbook. This is the same thing that Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, and J.P. Morgan did. They spent their whole lives fucking people over and accumulating vast sums of wealth. They gave some money away at the end and that is mostly what they are remembered for.

Re:Observations....

[Lead Butthead]

I appreciate how terrified Fox is of Hillary given how strong a candidate she is ( especially when viewed against potential runners like Fiorina/Bush/Christy/Huckabee )

I am not sure if that's true. Politicians are realists; all the republican and tea bagger nut jobs is throwing their hat into the race because they perceive democrat has no viable candidate.

Re:Observations....

[SecurityGuy]

Sounds like you watched "House of Cards", too.

Re:Observations....

[erp_consultant]

Hahaha...every episode :-D

Re:Observations....

[UnknowingFool]

I find it ironic that many of the people I grew up with are so rabidly anti-Obama because they believe the lies the right puts out about him. Now that Hillary might win the Presidency they are practically foaming in disbelief and denial. From my standpoint the right had to make up things about Obama to keep their base hating him: He's a socialist, Muslim, Kenyan immigrant who did poorly in school. With Hillary they don't have to make things up and that must really burn them.

Re:Observations....

[grasshoppa]

More like they recognize a relatively large segment of the population who can easily be manipulated by cheap words and clever sayings. And really, what have they to lose? They get someone else to front money for their campaign, and even if they do poorly they can still get a book deal or three and retire off of the proceeds.

CarlyFiorinafication

[oldmac31310]

If elected, can we expect a new TV series based on her presidency?

Re:The Only

[jandrese]

I thought he was implying that the current Republican slate was full of crazy old white men. For all of her numerous faults, Carly at least has one thing to differentiate herself from the pack. Two if you count the whole "drove a Fortune 500 company into the ground" thing.

Re:Real reason

[quantaman]

She did fuck all WHILE she was a corporate executive, too.

Why does the media take people like this seriously? I think the corporate media automatically fawns over a CEO. It doesn't matter that the CEO is a failure.

She is also the postergirl for "failing upwards" and the fact that we don't have any meritocracy in this country. She doesn't deserve to be a manger at Arby's at this point, and she doesn't deserve respect. But still the Corporate media fawns.

It's not like she's running to captain a space station, it's the Republican Primary, they dream of finding someone qualified to manage an Arby's.

Ex HP and Survivors for Fiorina!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe she can get a web page going of former HP and Lucent employees who endorse her!

Agilent has been split up again....

[Ellis D. Tripp]

The Agilent name is now used on their chemical/life sciences stuff (chromatographs, NMR, etc.), while the traditional electronic test/measurement gear that HP was founded on was spun off into another new company, Keysight Technologies.

Re:Agilent has been split up again....

[Anonymous Coward]

Although the names have changed, Agilent has been pretty solid in the electronics equipment the whole time. They're only splitting now because their life science is getting too big and with different focus (going after medical device production) to keep together with the electronics side.

What's really entertaining is that the kind of equipment that Agilent now makes requires high speed ADC boards. Agilent's competitors also require the same kind of boards, so they're forced to buy them from "Agilent" (now Keysight).

If you visit Agilent headquarters, everyone there uses HP laptops and workstations, so there is still residual loyalty which is kind of nice to see.

Re:Agilent has been split up again....

[nmr_andrew]

The Agilent name is now used on their chemical/life sciences stuff (chromatographs, NMR, etc.)

You might not want to include NMR in that. Agilent shuttered that division last October with nearly zero warning. Lots of good people affected by that, many employees only had ~2 weeks from the announcement until they were out the door. Fortunately at this point many have found other jobs. Agilent is also effectively letting all of their NMR technology go into a black hole; the tax write off is apparently worth more to them than they could sell the IP for (welcome to screwed up US tax codes). I'm SO glad that Bruker now has a near monopoly on NMR - nothing against Bruker, but...

Not that I'm bitter about this or anything.

Re:Agilent has been split up again....

[Adrian Harvey]

The Agilent name is now used on their chemical/life sciences stuff (chromatographs, NMR, etc.).

Not NMR anymore - they've shuttered that part (formerly Varian), thereby giving Bruker an almost open field... well, JEOL was well in 3rd place and the upstarts like Magritek (with their benchtop, non-cryogenic NMRs) are almost a separate market.

Re:Agilent has been split up again....

[unixisc]

HP workstations? You mean HP-9000 workstations? The ones based on PA-RISC? That's so ancient! Wonder whether anyone there use Itanium based workstations running HP/UX. That'll be a sight to behold!

Re:Agilent has been split up again....

[Agripa]

I wish the calculators has followed the test and measurement gear to Keysight. Based on support it seems that the calculator division has been disbanded again.

Retracted

[Event Horizon]

It's pretty disingenuous to post a link to a Slashdot story which in turn links to a retracted article and using it to suggest that HP employees thought poorly of her.

Actual facts about experience

[sjbe]

1) So did Palin (vs Obama) but that didn't stop the criticism there

Kind of stupid to post things that are so easily refuted.

Obama was a US Senator longer (3-Jan-2005 to 16-Nov-2008) that Palin was Governor of Alaska (4-Dec-2006 to 26-July-2009). Plus Obama was a member of the Illinois senate for 8 years. Palin was mayor of Wasilla (population 7,800) and served as Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Commission for less than a year. All other jobs held by either one were nothing on a national stage or significant enough to count as meaningful experience. So no, Palin did not at any time have more experience in public office than Obama.

2) Most of Hilary's experience is being the wife of Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend

You mean except for being a US Senator and Secretary of State?

Given the choice between Hilary and Carly, I'd take Carly. Which isn't actually saying much. Personally, I can't stand either of them.

Based on what? You clearly have your facts wrong so any opinions you might have based on your incorrect assertions are based on false premises.

Re:Actual facts about experience

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm going to add -Gate/-gate to everything. I am adept at moving goal posts from things like 'had more experience than X' when refuted to 'makes one fully qualified for president'.

Also I cannot use the quote function properly. I'm helping!"

Re:Actual facts about experience

[UnknowingFool]

Voting "present" if I recall was his biggest achievement in those years. Having no real accomplishments other than being elected is outstanding political work these days. It also is working for Hilary.

Your penchant for posting factually untrue things is Palinesque. Obama's "present" votes represent 3% of his voting record.

Of course, a lifetime of scandal should be enough to prevent her from running. At this point the DNC can't complain about anyone the GOP having "Scandals"

Do I believe Hillary or Bill are the most trustworthy people? No. You, however, are willing to believe anything to justify your opinion. Even things that are not true.

Re:Actual facts about experience

[UnknowingFool]

it isn't the total, it is which legislation it involved. ;) Nice try though.

First of all that is not what you posted in your other thread.

Why didn't the reporters do the same thing with a Jr Senator from Illinois? Remember, he was just a couple years into his first term as Senator, voting "present" more often than anything else.

Second, your complaint is that he voted "present" still implies that this was more important than the thousands of "yes" or "no" votes he cast. I would argue that was an important part of job was to cast votes.

Having exposed your lie, now you want to switch it that so that he proposed no meaningful legislation. Seriously, can you use the internet?

Washington Post says you're lying. The New York Times says it as well. Do you live in an alternate world where you just believe things which are not only untrue but easily verified to be untrue but believe them anyway?

Re:The outsider strategy is so cliche

[TWX]

This isn't the universe of Harrison Bergeron. I actually want our elected officials to have experience successfully doing important things before getting the top job. That doesn't mean that I want to restrict politicians to only a trained political elite, but I want people with a proven track record of their own success, not someone that has simply ridden the coat-tails of others or made it on name recognition.

Several CEOs later

[Streetlight]

There have been several CEOs since Fiorina was CEO at HP and they still haven't fixed the mess she got them into. Oh, wait ... the replacements haven't been all that good either.

Re:Several CEOs later

[Virtucon]

Several being.. 2... Right?

Huh?

[sgt_doom]

"I think I'm the best person for the job because I understand how the economy actually works.

Yup! Offshore all the jobs and buy up shitty companies like Compaq! Carleton Fiorina sure knows her stuff, alrighty! Bet she's even played toy blocks with Geo. W. Bush when he was in the White House?

Re:Huh?

[Virtucon]

Compaq was not a shitty company. Yes the merger between HP/Compaq wasn't the best thing on the planet and essentially HP took on a ton of debt in the process. Remembering it now, it was more a merger to remove competition than it was to enhance the overall business capability of HP.

Re:Real reason

[sgt_doom]

What media? You mean tha newsy whorescum who sometimes forget themselves (like Brian Williams, formerly with ABC, and that Canadian fellow, Gian what's-his-face, formerly of CBC and now in jail) and continue lying once they get off the air? The very same Amerikan media owned by five corporations, themselves financed by just two major banksters which nobody seems to know who they ownership is?

Re:The Only

[sgt_doom]

Seeing as how Carly Fiorina's birth certificate reads born Carleton Fiorina, you may not be far off.

Wow

[rochrist]

Talk about delusions of grandeur.

Why settle for the past?

[chasm22]

I'm pretty sure the board of directors would let her go, hell probably even pay her to go.

For campaign cash she could hold a private auction on eBay selling herself out to the highest bidder[s].

And her qualifications are at least as..

Go Meg.

If Carley were president...

[steevo.com]

She would spin off California and Florida as independent countries, and merge the rest of the US with Canada.

Re:If Carley were president...

[bluegutang]

Not a horrible idea.

Re:Hasn't been that way yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Palin did it while governor to hide some rather blatantly illegal activity. Shrub's White House lost several **TERABYTES** of emails, mysteriously happening to be mostly the ones that were going to be subpoenaed. Several of his administration used outside email accounts to hide dubious and/or illegal dissemination of classified information to unqualified individuals (mostly corporate execs). Official Washington likes electronic communication, since it reduces the need for paper shredders when (mis-)used correctly

NOPE!

[whitelabrat]

Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.

Man there is noooooooo way anyone with a brain would vote for this person. And I'm usually pretty open minded.

CF: Comcast & Verizon wanted net neutrality

[MillionthMonkey]

This is what Carly Fiorina said about net neutrality two days ago:

The dirty little secret of that regulation, which is the same dirty little secret of Obamacare or Dodd-Frank or all of these other huge complicated pieces of regulation or legislation, is that they don't get written on their own, they get written in part by lobbyists for big companies who want to understand that the rules are going to work for them.... Who was in the middle of arguing for net neutrality? Verizon, Comcast, Google, I mean, all these companies were playing. They weren't saying "we don't need this," they were saying "we need it."

I think my grandmother could have done a better job running HP.

Bernie and Liz

[Immerial]

Bernie Sanders for prez and Elizabeth Warren for VP, that would be my dream ticket.

Re:Bernie and Liz

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Yes, mine too. They are such jokes that they are sure to lose.

Re:Bernie and Liz

[Ryanrule]

I want one of them for VP. They can play the maverick role as biden has done, but even more attack heavy on the repubs. IE, calling an asshole an asshole, instead of boring rhetoric.

Re:Bernie and Liz

[Sarius64]

Because you want to elect a VP that's based her career over being another rich asshole that uses class envy to divide voters?

Re:Bernie and Liz

[Immerial]

I'd have attack both sides. It's not just the 'repubs.' that are causing the problem. Calling "bullshit" on a lot of it would help and maybe move the needle from political posturing to something productive/practical.

Re:Bernie and Liz

[Immerial]

Rick Santorum, is that you?

Re:Bernie and Liz

[Ryanrule]

false equivalency. obvious repub.

Not that great of an example

[publiclurker]

considering how badly she tanked the companies stock prices.

Re:Real reason

[frank_adrian314159]

... it's the Republican Primary, they dream of finding someone qualified to manage an Arby's.

Why? They've got Herman Cain - he managed a Godfather's Pizza!

And whom I expect to be announcing in 15... 14... 13... Look out, baby, the clown car's getting even more fullerer!

So Awesome

[drinkypoo]

This is your chance to get something back from Carly. She will never ever ever ever win, so you can get your piece of what she's liberated from the users in the form of bonuses by working for her campaign.

no "nothing but love"

[seven of five]

The target article of "nothing but love" has been removed. On one hand, the author's sources couldn't be verified, but MIT was likely under pressure by HP also.

Reality TV generation

[TsuruchiBrian]

Carly Fiorina gave the commencement speech for my college graduation. Her speech centered around the idea that my/our generation was the reality TV generation, and that our biggest challenge would be to successfully differentiate between reality and reality TV.

Fuck you Carly Fiorina. You suck. I hope you lose. Although you seem to be pretty well suited to be a politician.

Re:Real reason

[MillionthMonkey]

Carly spouted off on Saturday about net neutrality, and claimed that it was forced down our throats by lobbyists from Verizon and Comcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

And she says this as a former CEO of HP. I hope her campaign fails soon because her voice gives me faceslapping injuries.

Re:Failed CEO and Gubernatorial Candidate

[ewhac]

Uh, no. Fiorina ran for US Senate. You're thinking of Meg Whitman, who tried to click "Buy It Now" on the California Governorship ($150 million campaign). But your confusion is understandable, since they're both from the tech sector, and they both spout buzzword-bingo gibberish.

Whitman lost to Jerry Brown, BTW, thus earning Brown the singular distinction of having to clean up the mess left by a B-grade movie actor twice.

Best news ever

[rs79]

For Democrats that is.

Re:She could have been honest, for a change, at le

[jeff4747]

I also agree Walker looks like the front runner. He's still developing, but he starts from a very strong position. If he can avoid any major flubs that the media can run with, he has a real shot.

No, he really doesn't.

Add up all the "blue" states where no Republican that can survive the primary can win, and you get 254 electoral votes.

Add up all the "red" states where no Democrat that can survive the primary can win, and you get 149 electoral votes.

The Democratic candidate needs 1 large "toss-up" state, or two smaller "toss-up" states to win 270 votes. For example, VA will do it, and it's likely to go to the Democrat. Obama carried it twice and in the 2014 Republican wave election, the Democrat won the senate seat. (And governor, but the Republican candidate for governor had a pretty nasty scandal)

The Republican candidate needs every "toss-up" state, and needs to turn one "blue" state.

It's going to be extremely difficult for the Republican to win in 2016. Which is a big part of why the Republican primary race is such a clown car.

Pretty pictures and more analysis from right after the 2014 election: http://blog.chron.com/goplifer...

I know of at least

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

317,500 that won't be voting for her...

the Carleton Fiorina story

[swschrad]

it begins with her nearly crashing Lucent during the dotcom boom and Y2K boom. since they were selling the once-Cascade, once-Ascend 8000/9000 frame relay switches that were the backbone of the Internet, that's hard to do in my book.

she almost took down HP also, back when the whole board was playing Spy vs Spy.

lost big in California politics.

thinks mass firings were a good thing.

not what any country needs.

Looks like the spin machine is in high gear

[sjames]

Following the last link in TFS, and its link, We get a retraction of the story that is highly suspicious to say the least. Looking at "the investigation", we find a report that basically validates within reason all of the other stories by the author, leaving only the two on Carly but trying to spin the story as a complete failure to validate anything. The 'investigation' of those two seems to consist only of talking to a PR person at HP that denies the stories (yeah, big surprise, many buyers like to rationalize away and otherwise deny remorse) and "can't find" the person quoted in the company.

Retracting the article based only on that seems a bit extreme.

fMRI

[NewYork]

I do not vote in elections till the Candidate qualifies in fMRI;

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:The Only

[Sarius64]

The funny thing to me is Shirley Chisholm would be considered a Republican these days.

A pawn in the greater game

[PlatinumEagle]

Please.... Does anyone here believe that she is a "real" candidate, rather than a republican woman injected to soften support for Hillary for whomever the actual Republican candidate turns out to be? Clearly the vast majority of her "campaign" will be targeted at Hillary rather than actually winning the nomination. The goal is to cause fear and doubt, primarily in Republican women voters, to not vote for Hillary by attacking her like only another woman can (without repercussion based on gender). The real question for me is whether Carly truly knows that or not... or whether the Republican party leadership are just playing to her ego to serve their ultimate goal.

Analogies

[DarthVain]

If you're going for analogies, and you pick a state, why would you pick the smallest one, particularly if the point is that it is supposed to be big?

Texas is the obvious answer of course...