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Stormtrooper Arrested
Kexel writes: Nope, not an April Fools joke. A forty-year-old man in Massachusetts bought a Stormtrooper outfit, and then walked through a neighborhood near a school to show his friends. The principal saw his fake blaster and called 911. The man was then arrested and charged with disturbing a school and loitering. A police spokesman said the man "used bad judgment." I guess this shows you what not to do when geeking out on Star Wars.
Stormtroopers don't come out the way they went in.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Maybe schools should require some kind of basic course to familiarize kids with real guns, so they don't grow up into these principals who can't tell the difference.
The force is not strong with this one.
This is why TK-421 isn't at his damn post.
O_o
And the police used what? Not to mention the principal! About the only sane person in the middle of all this seems to be the poor guy that got arrested!
Idiot Principal Wets Himself, Calls Cops on Guy in Stormtrooper Outfit with a Fake Gun
Hoplophobia is just a natural extension of zero tolerance (a.k.a. zero common sense) that has infested the school system.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Those charges make no sense. Perhaps there is missing information here, but how exactly is walking by a school loitering, and it sounds like the principle did more to disturb the school than the storm trooper. After all, we all know that walking by a school with a plastic laser rifle is totally equivalent to shooting up a school.
I guess this is what we get in a society where everything must be punished.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Well, if he had been an actual Nazi stormtrooper, that's kind of frightening. Except that he would have to be pretty old by now.
A guy in a costume from a 1977 movie, though....
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The stormtrooper was easily and clearly observed brandishing a blaster (obviously a danger to people.) This of course is totally different than the numerous calls from parents and students about the recent appearance of the moon during all hours of the afternoon. The moon visible near the school is clearly a celestial body, and poses no harm to the students. This morning we've even observed its brilliant glimmer from th$T22$@@%%^[CARRIER LOST]
Good people go to bed earlier.
I can see why the police would come and check it out... if they don't and something bad happens because of mr. TK-421, anything at all, it's their ass for not taking that call seriously. And I suppose that in some messed up version of reality there was also cause to take the guy in for some questioning... But why the hell charge the guy? Loitering and "disturbing a school"? Sounds like charges that they can bring anyone in on. And that's probably the point.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
It's easy to criticize the police over this, but what if this had turned out to be an authentic Stormtrooper? That blaster would have packed serious firepower that would outclass our current military capabilities. Even if the Stormtrooper had no bad intentions, I'm sure that Federal authorities would want to dissect that weapon to find out how it works and keep it out of the hands of the terrorists and/or unfriendly countries.
Possibly the stupidest thing I've heard this year .. and considering the year so far ... that's saying a lot.
Did he have "Free Candy" written on the side of his TIE Fighter?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
And more fear.
But yeah walking around with a toy gun by a school is bad judgement these days.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Batman getting pulled over in Lamborghini.
http://jalopnik.com/5895956/im-batman-getting-pulled-over-in-a-lamborghini/
The stormtrooper could have posed a threat to the younglings and Padawans at the school.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Those charges make no sense.
Yet the individual arrested now has a record, misses work, possibly loses their job, and if prosecuted by the DA, has the expense of defending himself against the charges. All without recourse.
I don't know how it is in Lynn, but down here in Texas, weapons are banned in school zones. Walking through a school zone with a real gun, or even having one in your car while parked on school premises, is grounds for an arrest, last I checked. There are obvious common sense reasons for why those sorts of laws are in place (i.e. "think of the children!"), but I won't claim to understand the legal basis on which they are founded, nor will I assert that they are in any way constitutional.
Even so, he didn't have a real gun, and it doesn't sound like he was acting in any sort of a threatening manner, so the real failure here is on the part of the principal and the police to exercise some common sense in allowing a harmless citizen to exercise his freedom to walk around in public as he should please...even if it means in a stormtrooper outfit.
I wonder if it would have helped if he'd had a friend. The 501st has a rule "never troop alone", which they came up with after observing that under identical circumstances many people will think one stormtrooper is a little scary but two (or more) stormtroopers are awesome.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I don't know if you noticed or not, but most of our presidents since Woodrow Wilson tend to use that particular document to wipe their asses with.
Even if it WAS a real gun, it's not like a Stormtropper can actually hit anything!
Also, I went to that elementary school until mid-year 2nd grade
Walking from point A to point B - is not loitering.
Carrying an obviously fake laser pistol isn't a crime.
False arrest, sue the City and School district both for everything in their budgets.
If the guy had been dressed as a redshirt with a phaser, nothing would have happened.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
I'm wondering if this could get tossed simply out of being a violation of his freedom of expression. He was not on the school grounds nor does appear that he attempted to enter school grounds, he did not have a real weapon on his person in the vicinity of the school grounds, and the toy-weapon he had on him was completely in-context to the ubiquitously-recognizable costume that he was wearing.
If burlesque dancing can be legally considered artistic expression and subject to first amendment protections, then this should certainly pass muster.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
"There are obvious common sense reasons for why those sorts of laws are in place"
"Unobvious common nonsense" would be more accurate.
From what I understood the guy was not on school grounds. So, legally define the area of "outside schools"? The middle of the woods is "outside schools"...
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But probably not the guy obviously dressed as a storm trooper with a fake blaster. What was he doing to do in that costume? Shoot someone and run away. Because it's so easy to be inconspicuous running in a storm trooper outfit....
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Oh, everyone's noticed. That doesn't make it OK, there, Champ. If everyone walking down the street for the past few days has been kicking you in the nuts, does that make it perfectly fine if it just continues to happen?
Of course not. My natural assumption would be that Star Wars was not just a movie, and there was an actual frigging Stormtrooper in my sights! I totally understand the Principal taking this seriously. What baffles me is why the Principal thought the police would be able to do anything about it. Why the hell didn't they call Luke Skywalker?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
On the other hand, what if he had been wearing a turban, instead of a stormtrooper costume?
The entire school would have been closed down for a week, Congress would be scrambling for new laws to "protect our children from turra!!!" and Fox News would still, even now, be on site with 24/7 coverage.
Schools, both public and private, want make everyone to Toe the Line. They coerce parents and students to this goal. The administrative staff at every school lives and breathes this life style, and are quick to apply the same methods to anyone within their territory. Every day of school was a battle of wills for me, the staff trying to break me to comply, me trying to survive with my dignity intact.
I recommend that all of you tell your children that when they go out in the real world to get a job, recognize that their experience in school should be considered the low bar and hold their employers and peers to a higher standard. Don't take shit from anyone for longer than you have to.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
That guy wears a friggin' costume! We're not talking about someone running around in jeans or even combat fatigues. We're talking about someone who is OBVIOUSLY wearing something that is either a theater prop, a mascot suit or something along these lines, in no way this could remotely be considered something anyone would willingly don if he was to start an assault on anyone!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I don't know about the rest of the country, but Mass has really become a police state. They have amassed complete power, and are able to basically arrest anyone at any time if they feel like doing so. The laws are made such that almost everyone is breaking the law on any given day. This gives the police the power to circumvent the law, human rights, innocent until proven guilty, etc - they can racially profile, or whatever they want. For example, Mass is the only state (FL has a similar law, but is only about a tenth the duration) where someone can go to the police station and say "I think my husband has a drinking problem". an hour later, they will walk right into your house and take you out in cuffs, bring you to the courthouse where upwards of 95% of the time they determine that you need help - with no proof whatsoever - and ship you off to Bridgewater prison for up to 90 days. Bridgewater is a cesspool of germs and filth, which makes even hardened criminals cringe - where you're treated worse than a rabid mutt in a kennel - completely devoid of human rights or care of any kind. I couldn't even describe it in a way that would convey the actual horror of the whole thing.
It's big business for the state - this is how we create jobs in MA. It's a vicious machine that chews often innocent people and shits them out with a shade of PTSD. Worse, people are catching on, and using this "section 35" to get rid of their husband as a precursor to stripping them of their money, family, children, career and anything else that you might have worked your whole life to create. Why choose between your cake and eating it too when you can have both - sponsored and encouraged by the state.
Imagine you are on school grounds and you can see this guy on the street, distance of maybe 200 feet. Would you be able to be sure the black gun shaped thing was a toy from that distance?
If the "gun" is at such a distance I can't, then maybe* I shouldn't be pissing my pants.
*Maybe as in, unless I hear shots and see bodies dropping, no.
"Oh no... he found the
It's not about what's constitutional, it's about what's enforceable, pragmatically speaking. We do not live in a Constitutional utopia, but one where people in power get to do whatever the fuck they want.
And hence the NRA would be all over it.
But it's just some geek with toys that were mistaken for guns. We may be tough on that one. Makes the parents happy that we're "tough on guns" and it's one of the few times the NRA won't mind.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Besides, a Stormtrooper would be more likely to shoot himself than to hit anyone at even 10 paces.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
It's messed up that they arrested some poor working Joe who was just trying to do his job. He was just looking for droids.
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The Vandals had the lyric "If you think you're free, try walking into a deli and pissing on the cheese" in Anarchy Burger. It was featured in xXx.
I think it could safely be changed to "If you think you're free, try doing cosplay (strike)in a school-zone(/strike)," now. (If only the -strike- tag actually worked here)
Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 prohibits firearms within 1,000 feet of public, private, or parochial school grounds.
I'm pro gun. I'm anti idiocy.
I'd just wish everyone who wants one has to spend a week with my old drill sergeant. He had some rather ... graphic ways of showing you just WHY guns are no toys and why these things deserve your respect. He taught us certain rules and procedures that, if used properly, make sure you CANNOT harm anyone you do not want to harm. And I think he's got to do something right, in his whole career not a single soldier he trained got wounded by a bullet while under his command.
He retired last Fall with 70.
I think fewer people would get hurt by guns if they had to go through such a training. And FAR fewer idiots like that principal would litter the streets and our courts with idiotic panic reactions like that.
Panic reactions is one of the things that kill people, btw. With or without guns.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
They'll be right down the hall from where quaint notions like the rights to life, liberty, and property are exhibited.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Hmm, a bit of a hoplophobe, I see...
Why should you be familiar with guns? Well, how about because you're much less likely to do something stupid with one (like treat it as a toy) if you know something about them?
Also, you're much less likely to wet yourself at sight of one if you know something about them.
Keep in mind that we have no problems giving 15-year-olds access to automobiles (in some States. 16 in others), which are MUCH more dangerous than guns. Note that there are probably more guns in the US than cars, yet more people killed by cars than by guns.
Plus there's the old "we fear what we do not understand" thing. Knowing something about guns will be more likely to lead to less panic over the things....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
I'm just waiting for the media headline: "How Would the Police React if the Stormtrooper Was Black?"
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Would you be able to be sure the black gun shaped thing was a toy from that distance?
Guns. Aren't. Fucking. Illegal.
So tired of light-loafered nanny-statists piddling themselves at the mere sight of a firearm. Go live in North Korea.
Apparently THEY ARE ILLEGAL at a Massachusetts school!! Source >> https://malegislature.gov/laws...
(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.
So, if you DON'T report it you can be fined and prosecuted at least for a misdemeanor according to the last paragraph. So the principal is screwed both ways and cannot use common sense like the rest of us would...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Stormtroopers are only foiled by plot armor and even then one shot Leia. They routinely stomp rebel troopers.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Is this really surprisisng?
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
I don't know how it is in Lynn, but down here in Texas, weapons are banned in school zones. Walking through a school zone with a real gun, or even having one in your car while parked on school premises, is grounds for an arrest, last I checked.
Here's a handy link so you can check again :)
I have a Texas CHL; if I am called in to pick up my daughter at school (sick, whatever), I can have my gun in my car, but I must lock it in the car.
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
Lucas can solve this by simply turning the blasters into walkie talkies in the next special edition.
to familiarize kids with real guns
Why? Why the fuck should kids be familiar with real guns? I think you grew up in the wrong neighborhood.
I hope some day the only familiarity kids will have with guns will be in visits to a museum, where they will also see steam engines and whalebone corsets.
Ironically we'll teach kids about condoms, but won't teach them how to properly handle and unload a weapon.
A (educated) child might just save the life of an (ignorant) one if they KNOW how to disarm a potentially deadly situation.
Nah, fuck that. Avoidance and ignorance is the answer I'm sure. Let's also teach kids that water is BAD so we don't have to teach them how to swim too.
Oh, and about that museum idea. A new gun is purchased in the US every 3 seconds. Good luck.
though in most states, that is being amended to allow legally licensed parent to carry within school zones as long as they are dropping off and picking up. the restriction adopted in 1990 has been changed multiple times in the 25 years since then.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Same reason they should be familiar with dogs, pools, household cleaners and chemicals, the big-ass knives in the kitchen, power tools in the house, and so on:
So they know how to safely interact with them if it's not possible to avoid them.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I was familiar with all the fake guns in Goldeneye 64. I was so disappointed to find out that a PP7 was not a thing...
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
"The principal used poor judgement so we've warned the principal."
It would be nice if this were the quote, but it would be less of a story.
How exactly would the cops know he was white or black under a stormtrooper helmet? Would they ask him to take his mask off and then shoot him? I guess they assumed he was white since except for Lando, Mace Windu, and the new trailer, black people don't exist in Star Wars.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
So, now a plastic blaster is a firearm capable of discharging shot, bullets or pellets?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Stormtroopers are only foiled by plot armor and even then one shot Leia. They routinely stomp rebel troopers.
But their best troops lost to the build-a-bear workshop.
Not really. The E-11 was pretty damn good, and a DC-15A would have ripped through the entire school easily. Not to mention the police.
The plastoid armor, however, was shit. Too many known weak spots, unwieldy, horrible color choice. The only nice thing about it was the helmet, or rather its technical capabilities. Still, it was a couple magnitudes below the Mandalorian helmets.
But we digress.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Basically, this was the option open to the principal, knock it over to the police
What absurd cowardice. Just walk up and ask the guy what he's up to, for fucks sake.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
...in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university...
Was he walking through the school grounds or just passing by on the sidewalk? Big difference.
in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university
Is in the text. Walking past a school should be safe, even for a stormtrooper.
Oh, everyone's noticed. That doesn't make it OK, there, Champ. If everyone walking down the street for the past few days has been kicking you in the nuts, does that make it perfectly fine if it just continues to happen?
Given the fact the parent referenced a president who was in office a fucking century ago, yeah I'd say everyone's pretty much gone numb by now and is MORE than content with it.
Besides, even bitching about it with words doesn't make a difference anymore, and you have no more ability to take action. That was made illegal.
The cops would ask the stromtrooper to take his helmet off and make a split-second decision.
Jeez. When I was in college -- in Canada -- a teacher brought a rifle to class and fired it, multiple times.
He was a physics prof, and he was demonstrating the use of a ballistic pendulum to determine e.g. bullet velocity. Nobody cared. Mind, this same college also had a pistol club, and a range on campus. And no, it wasn't a military college.
Kind of ironic that the state where one of the signal events of the American Revolution (ie, Boston Tea Party) started is now populated by bigger pansies than the United Empire Loyalists who left. "Home of the brave." snort
He wasn't at the school. He was near the school.
Having said that, I hardly think the principal is an idiot for not waiting until the guy crossed the line onto school property with his finger hovering over the final "1" on the phone.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Fuck; well said.
If he was in the school, or on the school grounds, then the excuse "it was too far away to see that it wasnt a gun" doesn't fucking fly. Either he was close enough or he wasn't breaking this law even if it was a real fucking gun instead of a star wars toy.
Now make up your mind. Was this guy too far away? If so, then you quoted shit that doesnt apply. If he was not too far away, then since it was a fucking toy the you quoted shit that still doesnt apply. In either scenario the shit you quoted doesnt apply. So why did you quote it? Active dishonesty.
You dont get to make up your own version of the rules just because you are petrified of plastic things that are in the general shape of guns, a condition which is due to being pussified by the system. Also, being actively dishonest for this same reason isnt excusable. There is no excuse.
You were wronged by the system when it conditioned you to be this horrible childlike way, but we dont have to bend over for you just because you were wronged. Here you are trying to perpetuate further wronging of people through active dishonesty: Its not an excuse for child molesters that were themselves molested, so its not a god damned excuse for you.
"His name was James Damore."
A police spokesman tells the Salem News the way things are in today's society, "you can't have that" and said Cross "used bad judgment."
I don't normally say this, but in this case I will:
Fuck the police.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The stormtrooper would take the and miss. However the haywire shot would take out an important girder, which would then cause the ceiling to collapse killing both trooper and redshirts.
Do you believe gays are limp-wristed and light-loafered?
Okay, but for the sake of argument Mass is an open carry state (with permit). I don't know the specific details because I don't live there.
Hypothetically if someone has a gun permit in Mass. and walks down a public street past a school, not on school grounds mind you, only the street in front of it, while having a gun on their hip or even their bushmaster for that matter can they be charged with "disrupting a s school".
See I don't understand how doing something that without probably cause to suspect otherwise (ie you know the guy does not have permit) doing something that is most likely perfect legal on public, though not school grounds, in the vacinity of a school can be a crime. It sounds like "loitering" on of the laws that every municipality keeps on the books to hassle people with but rarely press whenever anyone lawyers up demonstrats intent to contest the matter rather than entering a quick plea of guilty. They know if fought to its logical conclusion that statute will be struck for vagueness.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Context should have given you immediate understanding. Do you have a rough time learning new vocabulary?
So, if you DON'T report it you can be fined and prosecuted at least for a misdemeanor according to the last paragraph. So the principal is screwed both ways and cannot use common sense like the rest of us would...
No he's not... There's a world of difference between:
Operator: 911, do you have an emergency?
Overreacting principal: OMG! There's a guy with a gun on campus!!!1!one! Help! I have the school on lockdown!
and
Operator: 911, do you have an emergency?
Reasonable principal: There's some guy wearing a Star Wars costume here. He has what's probably a prop/toy gun, but I'm required by law to report firearms on campus. Can you send an officer to make contact and make sure it's just a toy?
"in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university"
The short article says he was walking around the neighborhood which doesn't sound like he was on school grounds.
A fucking toy usually looks like either a penis or a vagina, not a gun.
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"I guess this shows you what not to do when geeking out on Star Wars."
No, this shows you what hysterical ninnies the principal and the police were.
in no way this could remotely be considered something anyone would willingly don if he was to start an assault on anyone!
Yes, spree killers being so well known for their rational behaviour and all. I'm sure no-one would adopt an affectation to commit a massacre when more practical clothing is available.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Meanwhile in New Hampshire, just north of the Commie-wealth.. we had an incident a few years ago where a hunter had an actual firearm and was within hundreds of feet of the grounds of a middle school, the school called police. The police showed up, found nothing wrong, and merely made a suggestion that the guy think about purchasing a case for it instead of carrying it open.
The real reason he was arrested? A friend of his left a few Android devices for him to pick up. He found someone else's Android devices and took them instead
Those weren't the droids he was looking for.
*ducks the rotten tomatoes thrown at me*
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
During development, this pistol was called the Walther PPK after its real-world counterpart. The name was presumably changed for legal reasons.
See: http://goldeneye.wikia.com/wik...
and: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Walt...
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
True but the police should have just checked it out and went on their way. Dressing up a stormtrooper should not be a crime. I wonder if I dressed as a giant Penguin if I would have been arrested.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
"Yes, spree killers being so well known for their rational behaviour and all. I'm sure no-one would adopt an affectation [wikipedia.org] to commit a massacre [wikipedia.org] when more practical clothing is available."
I have no problem with someone calling the police. The police should have stopped him and asked to see the blaster. When it was shown to be nothing but a toy then they tell him, "cool costume but you might not want to wear it all the time. It can freak some people out. Have a nice day."
End of story.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Only if Happy Gilmore calls it in.
Didn't you see NCIS? They proved you could
Is there though?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
And YOU get a link! Everyone gets a link!
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
This link to a federal law may be relevant in your fucking shitty god damned tough guy rant.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
It seems like bad judgment to go around arresting people who are in a costume. Perhaps we should arrest the police chief. And if I see anyone in a police uniform with a weapon, I can assume they are a burglar in disguise and kill them before they try to hurt me, right? I mean, it can only be considered bad judgment to be in a uniform that criminals would wear when doing crime.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
I still have more links available if anyone needs one.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
They fear the impression of a gun more than an actual gun.
I could put a gun in a pineapple... and this guy wouldn't even know.
If I were a bad guy... a mass shooter... why would I make it easy for any moron to look at me and tell what I'm doing? I could put the gun in anything. A box of f'ing cheerios.
Every person that wants to make society safe by taking away the guns needs to watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Ta Da!
I can blow your house up with a water heater. You can make a bomb that can take down a big office building out of fertilizer.
You're policing the wrong thing. Instead of policing weapons, police INTENT... police CRAZY... police INCOMPETENCE.
You could give me a thermonuclear weapon. Put the button to detonate that thing right in my hot little hand.
Know what would happen? Nothing. I've no intent to mass murder people. I am no crazy. And I'm not so stupid that I'm going to accidentally press the button.
In Switzerland they give their own people machine guns and a bag of bullets. Everyone in Switzerland has a machine gun and a bag of bullets. How many mass shootings are there are Switzerland despite the fact that everyone has a machine gun and a bag of bullets?
Do you see? I'm sure some of you don't... But that's on you... because this is really fucking simple.
Who is the one that shoots a school up? Just some guy with a gun? Any guy with a gun? No. It is a crazy person with a gun. Or a radical terrorist of some stripe.
Well what is the lowest common demoninator?
Think about it. No motherfucker... don't react like a fucking animal. Use your brain. Actually work it out.
The lowest common demoninator in violent uses of weapons:
Criminals
Crazy people
Terrorists
The vast majority of gun owners are none of these and don't do anything against anyone with them.
Here you might say "but we're not mind readers, how do we police for things that are ideas or mental states?"
Easily.
1. The police know where the criminals are and they know where the gangs operate. They are very predictable and tend to have established territories. Finding a gang member with an illegal weapon is about as easy as finding a cop with an official firearm. It is really really easy. So if you want to disarm the gangs... make any effort to do it. Current policy in the US is to let the gangs do whatever they want so long as they only kill each other. Literally that. We have these big death tolls in the cities because when push comes to shove... no one cares if the gang members kill each other.
2. Crazy people out themselves almost always especially early on when they ask for help. A lot of the people that later went on to do shootings were involved in some kind of mental health program that didn't work out very well. Sending these people to asylums is the way to go. Seriously... big building... nice gardens... lots of jello... lots of great drugs... lots of jigsaw puzzles and water colors.
3. The domestic terrorists all have a "message" they want to "show the world" or show the country they're in or show some ethnic group or something. And that tends to start with a lot of violent preaching LONG before any violence happens. Go to the Mosques that terrorists frequented and you'll find a lot of violence and intolerance preached in the Mosque. The moderate Muslims LEAVE these mosques and join more moderate ones. And that just leaves a cluster of increasingly radicalized people in the existing mosque. And for the other sorts of terrorists you get the same thing. They write manifestos and send them to the news and write crazy violent statements online... and a fair number of these people are ALSO crazy... and so you have TWO opportunities to catch them.
Now will taking our guns away reduce violence? Depends. If the gangs want to kill each other and the police still don't care... then what does that change?
As to crazy people... they
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Thank you. Wish I could mod you up, since I'm always happy to be corrected when I get facts incorrect.
Fuck the police.
Seriously. Even Sting's solo work isn't all that great.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
to familiarize kids with real guns
Why? Why the fuck should kids be familiar with real guns? I think you grew up in the wrong neighborhood.
I hope some day the only familiarity kids will have with guns will be in visits to a museum, where they will also see steam engines and whalebone corsets.
Really now! Are you seriously prepared to argue that abstinence works better than education?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Need to start a movement to walk by the school in a different costume every day to see what triggers the police response. Think storm trooper man is up for the job?
Must have been one of the new black stormtroopers.
Well fine, I'll play the gun nut then..
"Shall not be infringed"
That trumps the law you cited. Next thing you know, someone will be arrested on their own property because some jerks less than a thousand feet away home school their kids.
Besides which.. he still didn't have a firearm. He can't violate the gun free school anti-Constitution zone if he didn't actually have a gun.
No worries, it's been known to happen to me too :)
It actually gets worse: You and I can have a gun on the school grounds in our cars, but my daughters' teachers (along with the rest of TX [at least public, not I believe Charter it's up to the administration] teachers) cannot. So, if they are working late (not likely in elementary, but more common in HS), they have to just hope for the best. It's a really horribly written law.
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
Should we teach everyone about all dangerous things? Have a class on crossbow safety just in case people come across a medieval crossbow?
We give 16 year olds access to cars because cars are useful. Guns really have no use in modern society other than dangerous toys.
Gun safety isn't that hard. You don't point the gun at anything you don't want to kill, regardless of whether you think it's loaded or not. Guns are designed to kill things, that purpose so you don't point them at things you don't intend to kill.
I still have a reaction of moving the gun if someone walks in front of the barrel when I'm cleaning it (ie no firing pin and a cleaning stick halfway down the barrel). Needless to say this rule was pretty effectively ingrained into my consciousness when I was learning to shoot at 12 years old.
Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 prohibits firearms within 1,000 feet of public, private, or parochial school grounds.
What if your house is within 1000 feet of a school. Are you not allowed to keep a gun in your house in that case? Does it matter if your house was there first and the school was built later?
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Note you could call the non-emergency number. The law doesn't require you dial 911.
You added the "and serve no other purpose" onto the original statement:
Everything you listed DOES serve another purpose.
BUT none of them affect the operation of the weapon. I spent 7 years in the Army and I can shoot a weapon with a carrying handle as effectively as one without a carrying handle.
No, but Batman would have been called...
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
I think that it meets the "dangerous" level as required by that statute.. assuming of course you coat it in lead and swing it like a club...
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I think you're find that many of the times storm troopers failed to hit anything it could be argued that they were failing to hit anything on purpose. The most obvious instance is when the hero's escape the death star, it's clear Vader knew there were people on board the Falcon and wanted to use it to find the rebel base planet. Their escape was allowed because their ship was already lowjacked.
Most accidents don't happen when you point the gun. That's the whole problem. Don't point the gun at something that you don't want shot is one part of the package, but you know, handling the gun means that it will point at various things while you handle it.
"You don't shit where you eat so you don't clean where you shoot" was one of those ... graphic rules of my sarge. And it makes sense. If there is a mental separation between shooting and cleaning, it also doesn't "feel" right to mix them. Most accidents with guns happen during cleaning and handling. And this is also the time when people are usually least conscious about where it is pointing.
Which isn't to mean that he didn't rip you a new one if he noticed your barrel pointing where it shouldn't... His attitude towards the whole deal was that if you have 5 things that avoid an accident each by itself, and you try to heed them all, chances are good that you'll at least get one of them right.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
People have been shot with ramrods or cleaning sticks before, after all. I like your reaction.
My son knows that guns he handles are always loaded and able to fire, and should never be pointed at anyone you're not planning to kill. I think that covers the basics.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
A plastic toy does not meet any of the criteria required for it to be illegal! A Plastic toy is not a firearm, and can NOT be discharged.
Provisions
18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(A) states:
It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
18 U.S.C. 922(q)(3)(A) states:
Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Reasonable principal:
Yeah. Good luck finding one of those anywhere in the US.
FTFY
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
This person has not bothered to read at least a large portion of what they keep quoting. Read the Provisions and Exceptions section of the link they keep claiming makes this a-okay. Those two areas are very clear that this is not okay.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
In a school system whose policies literally cannot differentiate between an actual loaded and cocked gun and a half-eaten pop-tart, do we really expect these people to be smart enough to tell when a BLASTER is fake? I mean, ASIDE from the fact that ALL blasters are fake? Come ON, really!
http://gawker.com/5988299/scho...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex...
To even BEGIN doing this we would first have to teach the "authorities" the difference between "fact" and "fiction" which we already KNOW is beyond their poor mental capabilities!
There's still the question of whether he "disturbed a school" which is what he was arrested for* - not "carrying something that looked like a gun but wasn't," which is how some people here (not you) seem to be desparately choosing to interpret it for the purposes of outrage.
*although I don't know if that's, like, the official name of the alleged crime.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
They also don't seem to be charging him under it. So they probably agree with you.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Oh get a grip. The only thing people who carry are afraid of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time and having to watch their loved ones die because they didn't have the means to at least try to defend them or get them to safety. If you feel comfortable with pleading for mercy or waiting on the arrival of 'the authorities' to ensure their safety then that's your choice.
I keep a first aid kit handy because bad things happen sometimes. I have insurance because bad things happen sometimes. I carry because bad things happen sometimes. Being somewhat prepared to take some responsibility for your own ass is not crazy, paranoid or illegal (yet).
"The principal saw his fake blaster and called 911."
When I was growing up, people thought the school principal and teachers were the smartest people around. They don't anymore.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I guess this shows you what not to do when geeking out on Star Wars.
No, it shows how hyper-paranoid we've become, to the point where we're too afraid to even ask people questions, just jump to conclusions. >_
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
This has happened several times already. A 9 year old sporting a very realistic looking CO2 pellet gun was killed a couple of years ago, and a bank robber dressed a sawed off shotgun up as a super soaker. The key is don't wave anything around that can be misinterpreted as weapon, people have no common sense and the cops will arrest anyone for anything and then let the DA decide whether to press charges.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Next thing you know, someone will be arrested on their own property because some jerks less than a thousand feet away home school their kids.
First, a home school is not a legal school ground. Second, there is an exception if the person is on private property even if the private property is within distance of a school.
Besides which.. he still didn't have a firearm. He can't violate the gun free school anti-Constitution zone if he didn't actually have a gun.
I know, it's stupid. He should not have been charged with any crime, as far as I can tell no crime was committed. The law I'm citing is only justification for the principal to call the police, not for the police to arrest the guy. He wasn't charged with violating that, after all.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Well don't keep me waiting, explain how that law doesn't make it OK for a principal to call the police when he sees someone walking by the school with something that he thinks is a gun.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
So is it impossible to put a plastic surround on a real gun?
Unless this guy is the slowest walker on earth, I can't imagine how he managed to be seen by someone, that someone told the principal, the principle called the police, and eventually the police showed up before he was gone. I tend to agree with the loitering charge.
You know stormtroopers can't hit shit with their blasters anyway. The blast goggles interfere with their depth perception.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
"Ironically we'll teach kids about condoms..."
Ironically, most of the people in the states that advocate teaching kids about guns are terribly afraid to teach little Johnny and little Billy Jean that condoms even exist, much less how to use them.
Which is too bad, since that might go pretty far in cutting soaring teen pregnancy rates in those red "abstinence-only" states.
Nah, fuck that. Avoidance and ignorance is the answer I'm sure.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Because the Provisions state explicitly that a Firearm must be present. There is quite a bit more by the way, but your username implies at least that you know this already.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Judge and Jury nullification is a sure bet on this one.
...that the principal was actually a Star Trek fan.
Can't we all just get along?
Well, even if he did open fire; an Imperial Stormtrooper would be hard-pressed to hit the side of the school's *buildings* at more than ten yards or so. So, unless I'd happened to wear a red shirt to school that day, I wouldn't worry very much.
Imagine all the people...
So the law says that the principal (or whoever) needs to go out to the person and verify that they have an actual weapon before calling the police? I thought it was the job of the police to check if the person is carrying a weapon. Maybe we're not reading the same thing. I understand why the person was not charged under this law, but I don't understand why you appear to be arguing that the principal had no reason to call in the first place.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Nobody in your links "dressed up" for the assault any differently than they had many times before, and the "dress up" was in clothes you can find in thousands of stores, and is commonly warn by many.
I'm grateful I'm an old bastard. I saved up my Christmas money one year and bought myself a trench coat, when I was a teen. It was great. Warm when you want it to be, but open and breezy when you wanted as well. And pockets that held everything. A full bag of popped microwave popcorn could be smuggled into a movie theater in one of the pockets. But these days, I'd get killed by the cops for having a baggy coat on.
Learn to love Alaska
I could make a firearm that looked like it. The movie props were based on a real firearm, so they should look (at least a little) realistic.
Learn to love Alaska
In countries where guns are illegal, even the cops are unarmed, and people are safer. An escalation of force isn't a safe move.
Learn to love Alaska
that they can't comprehend words like well regulated?
The law doesn't, but the police do. The last time I called the non emergency number, I was told that the only way to generate a police response was to call 911. The non emergency number exists solely for people who want to complain, but don't want to be arrested for falsely calling 911. The calls are taken and ignored. That's what the person on the other end of the line told me.
Learn to love Alaska
Yeah, like the Highland Park police who would arrest minorities for "loitering" all the time. The best place to collect such undesireables is a the bus stop.
Yes, the police pulled up to a bus stop, and arrested all the minorities standing there for "loitering". They had been called on it quite a few times, but didn't officially "stop" it until they arrested the maid of a rich, white, family who pushed the issue until there was a civil rights violation conviction against the city. After that, they now only arrest minorities at bus stops for resisting arrest.
Loitering is 99% of the time a bogus charge. It's not illegal to "loiter" in most places someone is arrested for it. It's like trespassing. It's confusing enough that they can get away with it.
Is it loitering to wait for a bus? Do you know he wasn't waiting at a bus stop? Is it illegal to wait for school to get out so you can collect your child? The only place you are allowed to wait is in your own house? What silly world do you live in? I bet the nice public parks in the rich neighborhoods don't have all the children playing on the swings for hours arrested for loitering.
Learn to love Alaska
Actual principal: I've got some weirdo carrying a gun on our school campus. Can you send someone over? Good, thanks. Kirk out.
Or someone could have a real gun in a potato sack. If you saw someone carrying a potato sack, and assumed there wasn't a gun in there, a malicious person could carry a potato sack with a gun in it to catch people off guard, too!
The only thing people who carry are afraid of is being in the wrong place at the wrong time and having to watch their loved ones die because they didn't have the means to at least try to defend them or get them to safety.
The world must be a scary place for them!
The good thing about first aid and insurance are that they help make realistic issues better. I don't keep a surgical table or have volcano insurance because those aren't issues I will realistically have to deal with, and if they are then there are others better equipped to handle them
It probably will be. The police were likely just mad for being called out and wanted to punish/intimidate him. Whether it sticks or not isn't really the point.
Wait till he has to fie his report with Vader.
I'm no lawyer but it's probably not a crime to carry plastic space weapons in the USA.
How about teaching "educators" such as that simple principal to recognize basic Constitutional rights, eg. freedom to bear arms? Or did they repeal that in Massachewiesetts? And if you can't carry guns'n'shit WHY would anybody want to live there?
$
Rifles do not make you ineffective at hand to hand combat. In fact, the US Army and Marines teach you how to make a rifle lethal in hand to hand combat.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
So the law says that the principal (or whoever) needs to go out to the person and verify that they have an actual weapon before calling the police? I thought it was the job of the police to check if the person is carrying a weapon.
Please stop with the ridiculous arguments, you are not going to be correct on this. Being in a costume is not illegal, even if the person has a toy gun. There is no probable cause for the Police to detain this person, so the Police have violated the person's rights.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Sir, I invite you to register a Slashdot account and encourage you to participate in any discussions where guns are mentioned, when the inevitable "...but the rest of the world has banned them!" guy comes up.
1. The news report said that the man was walking down the street of he neighborhood near school grounds. If it is like my old neighborhood, there is an elementary school right in the middle of the neighborhood with homes surrounding it.
2. A plastic toy gun doesn't qualify as a dangerous weapon so the above law wouldn't even apply.
A sane person or police officer would check out the situation and simply said there is nothing to worry about.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Areas around schools (not on the school property itself) are being turning into constitutional free zones. They have taken the "think of the children" argument to the extreme. In Massachusetts, you can't walk to a friend's house in a Storm Trooper costume because you are carrying something that looks like a gun near school grounds. In Alabama, they are creating a law to ban abortion clinics within 2000 feet of school property so that they can take advantage of all the school property located around towns to close the last remaining clinics.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
If the NRA condones such behaviour, then yes.
I'd consider it a huge step forward if the NRA offered gun safety handling instructions to its members. That's what I'd pretty much expect from the NRA. The right to own a gun includes the responsibility for its safe use.
If you want rights and powers you have to take the responsibility for them. It's quite sad that people take their constitutional rights as granted. Else they'd assume responsibility for the second.
Or maybe even defend the first.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
>Basically, this was the option open to the principal, knock it over to the police.
When your lightsaber is in the shop for repairs, calling the police is the only way to deal with a blaster . . .
hawk, reminding everyone to engage in preventative maintenance
That leotard thing under the armor, it's black, right??
Makes about as much sense as the rest of this...
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
It's not just moral decay anymore. Now we're into complete reasoning. Duh, he's a threat. Just look at what they did in the movies.
Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life left down here. It's fine to demolish this planet for our hyper space freeway.
As long as he didn't say "Chewie, we're home" then he wasn't being a pervert.
... arrest the 5-year-old with glasses in a superman costume. Everybody knows that Superman's glasses are a lethal weapon.
The shoot first, ask questions later attitude in the US is making me afraid. And the willingness of the police to come up with "charges" when they find nothing out of the ordinary.
The idea of a free country is that you can go about your business without getting arrested and thrown in jail for nothing. That "business" should include say hobbies that not everybody shares. Some people like to dress up. Some girls "fancy", some guys "as girls" and some nerds "as TV characters".
If on the report of a "gun sighted" the police rush out: Great. If they then arrest him, take him to the police station and then tell him: You had us scared for a moment, please don't do this again, that's "so so". But if they then CHARGE him with things just to make their trip seem useful then that's bad.
If they tell the man who reported this: Hey, that was just a guy in a costume from a TV show, please look better before you call us over. Then that's good. If they tell him: "great! we arrested the guy", then that's bad.
The interesting part about the federal law is that it applies to unlicensed carry whether legal in the state or not.
That has not stopped the courts from upholding them and this law in particular; in this case because it affects interstate commerce.
The act also makes carrying a firearm in states where it is legal to do so *without* a permit (constitutional carry) unlawful and it has the same effect if you are licensed in a different state which the current state recognizes so all of those out of state permits are useless in the event that you are charged with this felony.
"Yes, spree killers being so well known for their rational behaviour and all. I'm sure no-one would adopt an affectation [wikipedia.org] to commit a massacre [wikipedia.org] when more practical clothing is available."
I have no problem with someone calling the police. The police should have stopped him and asked to see the blaster. When it was shown to be nothing but a toy then they tell him, "cool costume but you might not want to wear it all the time. It can freak some people out. Have a nice day." End of story.
But then it wouldn't have been a story which slashdotters could get all Second Amendmenty about.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Basically, this was the option open to the principal, knock it over to the police
What absurd cowardice. Just walk up and ask the guy what he's up to, for fucks sake.
And if he's an armed nutter, he might just shoot you. There are things which it's best to leave to the police, although I appreciate this is blasphemy now on slashdot.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Why should you be familiar with guns? Well, how about because you're much less likely to do something stupid with one (like treat it as a toy) if you know something about them?
But most people don't need to have any real familiarity with guns in order not to do something stupid with them, for the simple reason that they don't ever come across them.
I know enough not to try to lick a black widow spider or jump off the top of a skyscraper without needing any more detailed knowledge.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
A (educated) child might just save the life of an (ignorant) one if they KNOW how to disarm a potentially deadly situation.
It's only a potentially deadly situation because gun-loving arseholes leave loaded weapons lying around the house.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There is ZERO difference between the actions of this 'principal', and ISIS enforcers
I think that, except in brevity, that matches "literally Hitler" as an hysterical over-reaction.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I'm definitely right, you just apparently think I'm arguing some point that I'm not. I'm arguing that the principal was correct to call the police, and that most likely the police messed up.
There is no probable cause for the Police to detain this person
How do you know that, were you there? Did you see the interaction? Do you know if the guy in costume was cooperative or did he argue with the police, refuse to let them inspect the gun, etc? You seem to have the details, so I'm curious what exactly transpired there. I can see a possible situation where the guy in costume deserved to get arrested, and I don't have the necessary details to know whether or not the cops acted correctly. I'm assuming that the cop was having a bad day and decided to be a dick, but I don't know if that's the case or not.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Being cooperative with the police is not a requirement, and if you are innocent of any criminal actions the police have no right to question you or detain you. Check the law on that one, because there have been numerous cases thrown out of court where the only crime has been not cooperating with police. There is another mass of overturned cases because cops behaved illegally and unconstitutionally.
The law as written does not claim that a person can not be in a costume, and several courts have repealed lower convictions of idiocy like the Pop-tart gun. The times when that law has been active are cases of real firearms on school property. Other laws and policies have been used to expel kids for toys.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Being cooperative with the police is not a requirement, and if you are innocent of any criminal actions the police have no right to question you or detain you.
You're suggesting that if you are walking near a school with a toy gun which looks at a glance like it might be real, that the police do not have the right to question you about whether the gun is real? If it's real, then you're breaking the law. If it's not real, then you aren't. If the police are only allowed to question you if you have broken the law, then how do they determine if you have?
What you wrote above is only partly correct. The police have every right to question you if they suspect you have broken a law. If the police walk up to you and start questioning you, you can often end that encounter by simply asking them if they suspect that you committed a crime and, if so, what. If you disagree, feel free to go buy a toy gun (like this one, for example) and then stroll around your neighborhood elementary or high school. When the police approach you, go ahead and tell them how you haven't committed any crime so they don't have the right to question you. Note how they say that they're trying to determine whether a crime has been committed, and they'd like to find out if that's a real gun.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
You're missing the point. The idea here is that a reasonable person realizes that the dude in the stormtrooper outfit isn't carrying a real gun. To fulfill the "law" the principal must report this, but she might as well do so using the non-emergency number. If the police don't actually respond, who cares.
A storm trooper is unlikely to be a US citizen, and should be treated as a hostile combatant/invader at the very least.
The empire must be stopped at all costs....
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?