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Matthew Garrett Forks the Linux Kernel
jones_supa writes: Just like Sarah Sharp, Linux developer Matthew Garrett has gotten fed up with the unprofessional development culture surrounding the kernel. "I remember having to deal with interminable arguments over the naming of an interface because Linus has an undying hatred of BSD securelevel, or having my name forever associated with the deepthroating of Microsoft because Linus couldn't be bothered asking questions about the reasoning behind a design before trashing it," Garrett writes. He has chosen to go his own way, and has forked the Linux kernel and added patches that implement a BSD-style securelevel interface. Over time it is expected to pick up some of the power management code that Garrett is working on, and we shall see where it goes from there.
My code didn't meet the project leaders quality requirements, I'm leaving.
Waaaahhhh!.
Another guy whose wasting his efforts on a project that will never be picked up by a mainstream distro and thus will die a slow, quiet death.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: Linux is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Linux community when IDC confirmed that Linux market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Linux has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Linux is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict Linux's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Linux because Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for Linux. As many of us are already aware, Linux continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
All major surveys show that Linux has steadily declined in market share. Linux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Linux is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. Linux continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, LInux is dead.
Good on you for putting wotrk in and not just words in. I'm interested to see how many contributors will support the fork.
Twinstiq, game news
I don't actually mean to sound snide but can someone explain to me why I should care about this as an end user? TFS reads like someone got their panties in a bunch over some arcane detail and couldn't bear to not get his way. Is there some amazing benefit to users in this or is this just some developer having a snit because Linus disagreed with his preferences?
Fork off Matthew!
Just for the people who don't know what the fuck securelevel is (NetBSD's flavor in this case)
Not going back to Linux, but this really is a worthwhile addition.
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
Hopefully he will keep his branch in sync and offer back his contributions like other developers who have done the same thing.
Many developers felt that working on the main Linux kernel tree involved too much politics and in-fighting and chose to maintain their own dev branches for their patches. Any that keep their trees in sync have successfully continued to contribute, and left the politics for when their projects were ready for merging. Any that didn't keep in sync, well . . . at least we don't worry about those projects anymore.
This is how it's supposed to work. Whether he can make a functioning team or not is an open question, but at least he can see if a more polite environment gets better results.
The ideal Linux kernel fork would panic if it detected a systemd infection.
If he's able to gain enough traction with former and future devs, it will be interesting to see how the major distros (aside form Gentoo) pick up the alternative kernel. If they can do it for HURD, then surely they can do it for other kernels as well.
Branching happens all the time, either to develop a feature or because it's doing something that upstream won't accept. One man maintaining his own patches isn't a fork. A fork would imply that that you're planning to diverge from or replace the project you branched from, nothing in his post indicates he wants to compete with Linux or the LKML. He's just saying I'll make my own patches and provide them for those who want them, but I'm not going to bother trying to upstream them. Kinda like Debian and Ubuntu, Canonical made a lot of patches for Debian but they weren't trying to fork it. They just rebased off it every six months, being a downstream variation. He's making a downstream variation with some interface from BSD. Big whoop.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The last round of big attacks on Linux happened abound 2003-2004. Remember SCO, Laura DiDio, Ken Brown, Ballmer, etc ?
Those were external attacks and it only made the community stick together even closer.
Now a bit of astroturfing, staging some discontent inside the community. After all, nothing divides a community the way success does. Looks like a short-lived stunt.
Is it worth getting a large box of it and watching the fun or will it all be over by the time that I am back from the shop ?
Remember that forks sometimes do succeed.
Take Linux. It forked from OpenBSD which itself was forked from QNX with smatterings of FreeBSD code.
QNX programmed itself from vacuum tubes and trace wires left on the ground at Quantum Software in Ottawa one evening. Dan Hildebrand (RIP) apparently had something to do with this metamorphosis.
Meanwhile across the ocean, FreeBSD was forked from Windows 95 which itself came from the unholy union of MS-DOS and the GEM environment. MS-DOS was bought from a company in Washington State and was a fork of CP/M. GEM was a stand alone thing and should never have been born.
Where was I? Oh yeah, CP/M. CP/M was a copy of Apple's SOS used in the Apple
Apple SOS was a mix/fork of Apple ProDOS and TRS-80's OS; I forget the name, not important. Radio Shack forked their TRS-80 OS from some source code they saw in Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition.
Fact.
Trolling is a art,
Isn't that a strength of Linux?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Nice to see someone actually following through. It might not go anywhere... but I fucking hate ego-driven development so much that I would back this type of move regardless of the dspecifics. Linus (and the mentality he spreads) can die in a fire for all I care.
Isn't that a strength of Linux?
Mostly, yes... in both directions.
Besides, this is not the first time this has happened, reason notwithstanding (see also Alan Cox.)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Are you asking about the benefit of securelevel or the benefit of a fork that doesn't have an asshole culture?
Securelevel is of benefit to systems that run for a long time in the same configuration, making them more secure. This applies to many servers. Basically, it separates having the machine RUNNING from the setup process of CONFIGURING the machine. 99% of the time, the machine is in run mode (securelevel > 1) and in this state it's configuration can not be changed. To change the configuration, you boot into configuration mode (securelevel 1). That's a basic summary.
The submission is more about this dev getting tired of the culture, the environment that Linus has created and doing his development outside of that structure. It's not clear if he intends to lead a group of developers who aren't assholes. If so, that could mean more developers would contribute and they might be more productive in a less caustic environment. More developers being more productive would mean end users get more features, done better.
Although this project will probably never end up being used in any wide way, shouldn't the Linux community be concerned that it's running talent away with a poor culture?
If this were happening at our office, we'd all be concerned about brain drain.
Why should a person face a gauntlet of incivility and vitriol, one that you liken to a frying pan, to contribute to an open source project?
Code reviews, design reviews, that makes sense. Being referred to someone at a lower paygrade rather than the top tier of kernel devs, sure. These things are stressful but essential. I'd stand to lose considerable self-esteem from them, but there's nothing I can do about that but get better.
But if I went into a code or design review at work and got a Torvalds-style response, I'd be reporting the person to HR and finding a more civil person to work with. If I couldn't work around them and nobody was making them change, I'd find another job. I could try to modify the problematic person's behavior, but that would be stressful and unlikely to work, and I shouldn't have to act as my coworkers' parent.
Garrett found that there was no HR to appeal to, no way to work around Torvalds, and no way to change him. So he did in fact get out of the frying pan. He doesn't deserve to be seared whenever he gets anything done, so he's not tolerating it. Now he's getting the same things done in a way that normal people will be happier with.
This isn't a deficiency on his part. He merely doesn't want to deal with something that normal people shouldn't have to deal with.
"Configuration mode" would be securelevel less than 1. Or indeed less than zero. Theoretically, different levels could allow different levels of configuration changes - one level could allow you to add email aliases, but not allow you to set it as an open relay.
Maybe if Eich wasn't a bigot, DRM wouldn't be in Mozilla right now. Lesson: Don't be a bigot.
Yet DRM is in the Linux kernel.
The thing is, anyone can checkout and fork the Linux kernel. This is what Git does best. Developers can fork and remerge to their heart's content.
Most forks in a Git tree maintain some relationship with the parent. My guess is the maintainers of this fork will still merge in updates from Linus's kernel. So what is the big deal? Depending on how the do it, some of their features may eventually get merged into Linus's branch as well.
Forking the kernel and creating are exactly the way Git development is supposed to work. If enough people like it and it proves successful, it can easily be merged back in. This is massively distributed development. It may be a hard concept for some corporate-led programmers to understand, but this is seriously nothing of significant importance. Things are working as expected. There is no central brain in Linux development, only trusted repositories and relationship, and the merges between repositories. As long as the crowd trusts one repo more than another, that will be seen as the main repo. If Linus dies tomorrow, Linux would go on under another trusted repo.
he's probably a victim of just reading troll posts about it and thinking they are true.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Although this project will probably never end up being used in any wide way, shouldn't the Linux community be concerned that it's running talent away with a poor culture?
No.
Anyone with any real experience in hacking the Linux kernel already knows what they're getting into. It is also very widely known that Linus is incredibly fair in his assessments. If you provide useful contributions, no worries. If your commit is a total brainfart, you'll get a rejection, but the abuse won't come unless you decide to be a dumbass or get all arrogant about it.
It's about as fair as it gets.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I say good luck but I can't imagine any users ever choosing to use anything other than the "official" kernel.
Because of the extreme consternation and divisiveness within the Linux community that is caused by systemd" its AC troll pricks who have no idea what they are talking about and are too lazy/incompetent to fork it themselves.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Believe me, I can't stand SJWs, but there comes a point when the whole community just has an asshole elitist behavior, when they aren't elite at anything other than being nominees for biggest douche in the universe award.
I keep seeing people mention SJW reasons for this, but it may go beyond that. Even the systemd people were fed up with the attitude:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...
"i stopped working on the upstream kernel "long ago" for reasons i cannot stand the attitude of these guys, i decided to work with grown up or funny, or grown up and funny people instead and i enjoy it a lot more. not sure what this childish blackmail attempt relates to."
What I find ironic is that Linus hammer banned Kay Sievers for having the same type of attitude that Sarah Sharp and Matthew Garrett are accusing Linus of having.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
a) A fork is not the end of the original project. It can be. But usually it's not.
b) "In October 2014, Garrett stated on his blog that he would no longer contribute Linux kernel changes relating to Intel hardware" - That's pettiness, and I'm sure the kernel came to a grinding halt that day too.
c) If you can't get your changes past other people, to the point that you have to fork and maintain an entirely separate branch on your own, that's usually the sign of messy code or absolute loss. It means that you want only YOUR way to be the way. That kind of lack of co-operation isn't the way forward, but you are more than free to pursue that. The number of followers of that fork versus the stock kernel is likely to be tiny, and changes likely to come back in the "accepted" format into the stock kernel before you see any real usage of it outside developers and testers.
d) "He is a recipient of the Free Software Award from the Free Software Foundation for his work on Secure Boot, UEFI, and the Linux kernel". Ah! All the bits that I *don't* want in the kernel. Did he work on systemd too?
No I don't which is why I wrote what I did. If I mean to be snide I'll just go right ahead and do that without bothering to claim otherwise.
I'm not insulting you but you're a snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings.
A clue: saying you're not doing something and then doing it doesn't mean you're not doing it. Saying you're not being snide then making snide personal attacks on the person in question means you actually lied about not being snide.
I run a company and have had to deal with good people leaving many, many times.
Well done on not reading my post or utterly failing to understand it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Just another attention-whoring SJW.
Who got their panties in a bunch because WAAAAAHHHH LINUS SAID MEAN THINGS TO ME ON A MAILING LIST
Yes, Linus Torvalds is a gigantic, flaming dickwad. So what.
He's not your employer. You don't depend on him for your paycheck. And he isn't coming into your home or office and berating you in person. If you're that upset about something that someone wrote on a mailing list, and you have a problem with the basic concept that this is the guy who created Linux and this is how he wants things to work, then you need to GTFO.
Especially since most distros look to hypervisors to implement strong security. They leave less attack surface exposed than sandboxing/jailing.
And he isn't coming into your home or office and berating you in person.
And that makes a difference... how, exactly?
JUST what Linux needs to be seen as "Supportable" by major peripheral manufacturers, software publishers and corporations...
Yassiree, Bub! 20216 is for SURE gonna be The Year of the Linux Desktop!
It's not about "interminable arguments over the naming", the only one doing that is no else than Matthew, in attempt to pigeonhole his agenda.
This dates way way back to 98. Matthew tried to push gradual openbsd-ish "lock down everything" levels few times, while Linus and his club keeps firm stance "inherited bitmaps or gtfo" every time.
This is ultimately BSD "give user limited but easy to use tool" vs linux "provide powerful [albeit not as intuitive] tools, let user do the job". Think pf vs iptables. I personally stand with linus on this one, as providing flexible tools (instead of easy to use, but limited) is ultimately what made Linux a winner - people can bend the system for more usecases, instead of being restricted by simple and easy to use, but often hopelessly limited tools.
You've probably never heard of it because you're not in my enclave.
Guys, this is not a dick-sucking contest. If you want to parse PE binaries, go right ahead. If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microsoft, that's *your* issue. That has nothing what-so-ever to do with the kernel I maintain. It's trivial for you guys to have a signing machine that parses the PE binary, verifies the signatures, and signs the resulting keys with your own key. You already wrote the code, for chissake, it's in that f*cking pull request.
By the time SCALE 11 hit, Matt was no longer working at redhat. people moved on. A Fork was always an option for Matthew...just perplexed as to why he decided to do it 2 years after...
Good people go to bed earlier.
You probably deserved the troll mod for that, but it was still hilarious...
Athiesm Plus
I remember that clusterfuck well...it was a total crapload of pure stupid, with dickheads like PZ Meyers jumping on the bandwagon.
Garrett is the idiot who, while working for Red Hat, screeched that a kernel developer Ted Tso was a 'rape apologist' on a mailing list - completely untrue and a disgusting lie.
Ahh yes, "rape apologist", the specious accusation that keeps on giving. Needs no basis in fact or reality to be used, smears the target nicely, and makes the accuser feel like he/she is "helping the world".
The people that use this term to accuse others of some supposed behavior can't even agree on what it means, and by some definitions if you've ever looked at a woman on the street and thought she was attractive, you're a "rape apologist". If you've ever looked at nude images of women on the internet, you're a "rape apologist". The list goes on and on and most of it is genuinely insane.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
What talent? The SJWs are all pretty talented at being hypocritical and shedding crocodile tears at the UN, but they don't seem to be any good at actually writing code.
If they were then Zoe Quinn's "game" would have been more than reams of self-pitying text and some multiple-choice. A teenage script kiddie could do better.
Sarkeesian would have several AAA titles under her belt instead of just talking about how everyone else should make games to suit her.
That female kernel dev from yesterday would have forked the kernel herself or done something really impressive if she had the chops-- instead she apparently couldn't hang with the real bad asses and tried to make it sound like it was everyone being mean to poor little her. But as far as I can tell she butted into some good-natured ribbing between friends on the mailing list and got all offended at remarks that had absolutely nothing to do with her.
Ellen Pao is precisely the same way: lots of talk and being offended but has never actually accomplished anything aside from ruining Reddit (love it or hate it).
Poetering is the only programmer target of persecution I've ever heard of that actually doesn't deserve the hatred and who has actually accomplished something. But, oh, look: he's not a SJW and he doesn't make a living from being permanently offended; he makes a living writing code and gettin' stuff done (regardless of whether you hate systemd).
The FOSS community will be much better off without the SJW "contributions". Kernel development should be done by programmers not by self-righteous whiners who complain on twitter about how offended they always feel instead of fixing bugs. We'll never hear of this fork of the kernel ever again because the people behind it are not trying to make good software. I'm not saying that Linus' methods are efficient or effective, just that the goals are different.
Linus is the honey badger of kernel development? Eh doesn't afraid of anything!
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Damn, if I had mod points, they'd be yours. Mod parent UP.
Yes, people like Zoe "5 Guys" Quinn and Anita "The Liar" Sarkeesian are useless leeches who make a living by being professional victims.
They lie, they steal, they cheat, they game the system, and they still manage to hold on to their "I'm a Victim!" flag. It's unbelievable.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
That's only because they've barely had time to notice the difference between the "real world" and what they were spoon-fed in college.
It should hardly be surprising that PC indoctrination leads to mindless regurgitation of PC doctrine.
Indeed, people should just take vicious verbal abuse.
Which is nonsense, and completely non-arrogant, technical arguments have been met with vicious personal attacks and verbal abuse. There's a shockingly large number of emotionally immature and insecure people in the Kernel community, and a great many people meet the wrath of those people for no good reason.
And they abuse because they know they can get away with it and others like you will apologize and defend it.
> Why should a person face a gauntlet of incivility and vitriol, one that you liken to a frying pan, to contribute to an open source project?
They shouldn't, but you're assuming this is actually the case. Everyone is civil until people start getting arrogant, then the gloves come off. So if you don't want abuse, don't act like a dick and expect others not to say anything.
> But if I went into a code or design review at work and got a Torvalds-style response, I'd be reporting the person to HR and finding a more civil person to work with.
You wouldn't get that kind of review unless you were an asshole to the reviewer first. And this is an open community, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. You don't have the right to decide that other people should be forced to like you or that they cannot call you out for being a jerk when you act like one. And if you don't like it, you don't ever have to talk to them.
> Garrett found that there was no HR to appeal to, no way to work around Torvalds, and no way to change him.
It's a free country. If there was such an HR, he could be sent there too. But we don't have social police to crack down on anyone who makes you feel bad and that's a good thing. What he does have is the option he used: the option to walk.
And guess what? If he's a dick to contributors, there still won't be any "HR" for anyone to talk to. That's how it works. It's open and free and... apparently some people hate that.
but there comes a point when the whole community just has an asshole elitist behavior, when they aren't elite at anything other than being nominees for biggest douche in the universe award.
That's why the LKML is running out the SJWs. They don't want the elitist assholes whining all the time.
Because you can always press delete, close the window, and walk away. Preferrably without posting a big rant complaining about why you’re ragequitting first, but whatev’s
This is the reason poettering was mentioned.
https://plus.google.com/+Lenna...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Or maybe, just maybe, RHEL et al pushed systemd out the door way to early, with absolutely no interim process and it would break relatively stable systems in new and difficult to determine methods.
I know that the conversion from RHEL 6 to RHEL 7 expanded any simple sysadmin task by at least 5 to 10 times longer. Part of this is a complete lack of training on my part, and part of it is a complete lack of understanding of *NIX by the developers. What they have created has merit, and maybe as a standalone / fork it would have worked. But the wholesale sea change in 7 basically made me seriously consider abandoning my "linux first" approach to projects. It sort of reminds me of the attempt of Solaris to implement SMF, and the utter #$%@fest that would cause. Over time it got better, but by then, I abandoned a "Solaris first" policy.
My biggest quibble with systemd/RHEL 7 - on a minimal install, it requires WPA-supplicant. On a server. WTF???
--WooooHoooo--
He's not an employer. He's not paying. So the kind of person with enough talent and initiative to change jobs if an employer treated him this way, will CERTAINLY have the initiative to jump ship if there's no reward. This is why Linux will NEVER WIN - because any time it gets near a critical mass of brainpower and talent, it schisms because that brainpower and talent doesn't need to put up with each other, unlike the brainpower and talent that chooses to put up with corporate attitudes in exchange for a paycheck and stock options. In comic books the lone ninjas beat the marching army; in the real world the marching army eventually overruns the ninjas, especially if the ninjas aren't working together and are just as happy to kill each other.
i have little coding knowledge and have no idea how kernel coding collaboration works
but i tend to side with linus
if he verbally abused me i'd first make sure i didn't do something so stupid it warrants such a response (in case you want to say 'nothing warrants verbal abuse', we're adults, not children) before deciding to move away.
Here's an example of Linus ranting on someone:
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/...
Yes, it's pretty harsh. But I can't honestly say that what Linus said was wrong.
Furthermore, should something like this be omitted simply because Linus doesn't like it? Is his opinion the only one that counts? Among other things, securelevel is used to implement "jails" but the functionality can be completely disabled (securelevel = -1) -- so Linus can turn it off if he wants.
I'm not claiming to be a kernel developer nor do I claim to know enough about the subject at hand to judge who is right and who is wrong. But I can definitely guarantee you that Linus is not someone who makes decisions for random reasons and there is a reason why he doesn't want securelevel in the kernel. Some of you may not agree with it and he is not perfect so he might actually be wrong, but I think it's very misleading for many of you to imply or act like he doesn't want it in there just to show off his power. There is a reason for what he does. Now if you some of you who care about this want to find out what that reason is and debate it, I'd be interested, but he's not being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk. That's a lot closer to how Theo de Raadt works and that's a misleading and unfair statement to make of him, even if (in my opinion) it's a lot more accurate than to say that of Linus.
> poor culture
First, "poor" is a value judgment and more a matter of opinion than fact.
Second, "culture" is a bit of a stretch. It seems more like a clash of personalities, one of which happens to head the Linux kernel project.
Finally, this smells much more like people thinking "gosh, everyone else on the Internet is pouty and offended, and I've had an unpleasant experience, therefore I too must have something worth bitching about publicly, because why should I be denied some of this sweet, sweet, whiner's attention?" and contributing to the ever-deepening cesspool of useless, pointless drama on the Internet.
Sarah had already moved on in her interests, and Matthew wanted to do something different, and so he went and did that. Honestly, I don't think they were "driven away".
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
The problem is more related to open source projects in general, not Linux. So forking and starting a new one doesn't really solve the original problem.
People, in general, are terrible. So putting people in charge of things is, in general, a mistake. But, and this is important: just because somebody terrible is in charge of something, it doesn't automatically make it a good idea to put somebody else, also terrible, in charge of that thing. If around fifty percent of people think that the the first person's terribleness is manageable-to-nonexistent, that person is probably actually less terrible than average. So the inevitable terribleness of the replacement plus the significant terribleness of the replacement process itself would only serve to increase the total terribleness in the system.
I don't like people yelling at me about how bad I am at doing stuff, especially when they're right, so I don't contribute to open-source projects. But it's not because my critics use swears. As far as I'm concerned, the phrases "no thank you" and "go fuck yourself" are precisely equal in this context. Maybe all that Linus's critics really need to be comfortable is a macro in their email reader that turns "d_ck-sucking" into "corporate partnership" and "deep-throat" into "overadopt" and "f_cking" into "".
Nope. No talent is valuable to a group effort if it comes with emotional baggage that cannot tolerate direct, blunt communication when needed. This mathew garrett guy is a prime example of a prima donna that projects could do without.
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/35...
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/36...
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/33...
Bitching about 'cis' white men *check*
Bitching about 'privilege' *check*
deprecating towards women like he's some kind of hero *check*
'reverse discrimination' isn't a valid criticism of my brand of discrimination *check*
comments disabled "because I don't trust you guys" *check*
These and other posts by him read like first year student polysci essays. It makes perfect sense that linus and co want to keep diseased politics like this out of their community. I'm sure they wouldn't want bible thumper 'developers' telling them they're shits for not integrating jesus into their group culture either.
Only in theory. In practice, hypervisors have had more security issues, not to mention performance issues. Jails are faster and more secure if you look at their track record. Some of the most reknown kernel programmers who have been working on kernels before Unix had a name, and have worked in both hypervisors and jails, have said that hypervisors are a complicated mess for both software and hardware and securing them is a huge issue. Jails are much simpler and with anything security, simpler is better.
Because if you are always nice, the useless idiots stick around and remain useless idiots, and you end up wasting your time coddling useless idiots instead of getting things done. Linus is more considerate than the majority of HR people, because they manipulate you while pretending to be honest, kind, and such. Linus has the courtesy to drop the farce, so you don't have to waste efforts with pointless social games.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
A guy complaining about unprofessionalism uses the term "deep throating". Ok then.
That's the beauty of FOSS. If you're in a pissy, childish mood, you can take a copy of someone else's ball and go home to pout. :P
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Don't get your panties all in a bunch over it, it is just a posting on the internet.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
What the hell have "sane" people ever accomplished?
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Same thing happened with BSDs. Jolitz's 386BSD was out almost at the same time Linux was, but because BSD had a lot of hotheads, it got forked, forked, and sporked, while Linus kept the kernel on track throughout the years, which kept development focused rather than wasted among a lot of useless forks that went nowhere.
If the people who forked the kernel can do a better job than Linus, it is their show now. If they can't, their git repo (which seems stillborn right now) will fade into oblivion.
In general, if you announce a fork, do it right and have the manpower to handle the mantle of keeping it maintained and updated... or do what you want and see if the main maintainer would allow edits done with the fork to be merged in somehow.
In general, Linus knows his stuff. If someone has a useful feature and their code can pass muster, it generally will wind up in the kernel.
Securelevel is important, and I wish it were in the kernel, but if Linus doesn't want to use that nomenclature, call it something else like "lockdown mode" or whatnot.
I almost can't wait for 5-10 years down the road when she's completely irrelevant and everyone's making fun of her like they do to Jack Thompson now for having the exact same argument he had.
I'm hoping that it won't take nearly that long...but it probably will.
It'll be interesting to see just how long she can make a living at playing the victim card. To see her at the UN underscores just how ridiculous and irrelevant the UN has become. She and Zoe Quinn should never have been given an audience there. It's shameful and embarrassing.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
To be fair, I think if you rape someone, you owe them an apology.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
1. There is no gauntlet of vitriol, only for quality code and design. Linus only whips out the big guns for deserved behavior/code. It's very rare, but, historically, when it happens, it saves a ton of time and stress for everyone else. Honesty is more important than shielding sensitive people from bad feelings.
2. garrett wasnt' seared 'whenever he got anything done.' That bit about the PE binaries was pretty stupid on his part.
3. appeals to what 'normal people' are, implying that kernel devs are not, is just ad hominem.
https://www.google.com/search?...
Look at the last entry on the first page (might change, so recorded for posterity)
Matthew Garrett - Geek Feminism Wiki
geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Matthew_Garrett
Matthew Garrett (also known as mjg59) is a Linux kernel developer and is well-known in the Linux...
It is very likely that he actually did this because of Sarah quitting yesterday.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
A clue: saying you're not doing something and then doing it doesn't mean you're not doing it.
A clue: When someone clarifies their intent because they are aware that others will misinterpret them you might consider actually taking them at their word. The word snide means to mock and I was in not mocking anyone. I merely wish to understand the motivations at work here. Had I wished to mock it would have been trivial to do so.
Saying you're not being snide then making snide personal attacks on the person in question means you actually lied about not being snide.
Never made a personal attack on anyone. I asked if the guy was "having a snit" (the word means to sulk or to have a fit of irritation) which is a reasonable question in this context. I've seen plenty of projects fork because of personality disagreements. Merely curious if that might be the case here. I also asked if there was any tangible benefit to his proposed additions to the kernel that an end user like myself would care about. If he has a good point and it matters to me then I'll sit up and pay attention. But it seems to merely be a personality conflict based on what I'm reading so I no longer care.
Well done on not reading my post or utterly failing to understand it.
Likewise. Pot meet kettle. (see THAT is being snide...)
Because she talked all about her butthurt yesterday?
http://linux.slashdot.org/stor...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
To be fair, I think if you rape someone, you owe them an apology.
That seems reasonable, even to a old cis-het white guy like me.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I forked the linux kernel in 1998, porting it to a new processor that the company I was working for was developing. Seventeen year later, linux appears to be fine in much the same way my old company isn't.
Wow, and not a single reference to support any of your hyperbolic claims.
Seriously AC, if you are going to ask the question...
Hey! I'm a "Bible thumper" developer! But if I were making a Jesus Linux it would be at the distribution level and people could choose to install it or not.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
GP isn't forking the Linux kernel out of a ridiculous sense of entitlement, so it's irrelevant.
(GP, you aren't, right?)
I wouldn't know OR CARE what color this guy was unless he brought it up. I also don't care if women contribute. But some people were raised by parents that never criticized them at all and they cannot handle criticism in any way. You MUST agree with them or you are EVIL. This guy seems to be one of those.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
There are certain things that BSD just does better than Linux, and some things that Linux obviously does better than BSD. It should be a good thing if we bring the best parts of both together. BSD is horribly difficult to get running and administer, and Linux could clearly use some help in the performance department. Apple has done a great job of hiding BSD while taking as much advantage as they can. The overall Linux community has failed to take note.
Nothing to see here but us trolls...move along...
On the occasions when Linus has responded to criticism that he's an... asshole? It basically seems like he says, "1) This is my sandbox and I can do what I want. 2) This communication style solves more problems than it causes." Linus may be correct on both these points. Linus is certainly an important enough person on an important enough project to probably be able to get away with some stuff that others might not. And its often pointed out that the people on the receiving end of these kinds of rants "had it coming" for one reason or another. That may be true as well. On the other side of the coin, though - I see participating in an open source project as a kind of volunteer work. What you stand to get out of it are mainly intangible rewards. And, if you reach a point where the stress and BS you have to put up with as a volunteer outweighs the intangible rewards, then by all means, step away and do something else with your time. In my own life, I was formerly a volunteer for a certain project (not software-related). Some parallels could be drawn between our head honcho, and Linus. Our guy had years of experience. To be fair and objective, the guy was smart, a hard worker, and his heart was in the right place. A lot of stuff got done, that wouldn't have otherwise gotten done if not for him. The guy, however, was simply an asshole. Just rude, arrogant, insensitive. I worked with/for/near/around this guy for a few years, because I believed in what we were doing, and was trying to find some admirable or redeeming qualities about this person. But, after a few years, it just got to the point where I grew tired of trying to deal with this guy, on top of my actual responsibilities, which were difficult and time consuming in and of themselves. So I walked away from this organization, which was a painful and frustrating decision because there were certainly things about it that I did enjoy and get a lot out of. But, it just wasn't worth being treated poorly by an asshole. Now its entirely possible that I should have grown a thicker skin, or that the asshole was smarter/better/righter than me and I somehow "deserved what I got" or whatever. But, fuck it, eventually I realized, 99% of my interactions with my fellow human beings were more pleasant than dealing with this guy. So, I walked away, and sunk my efforts into something similarly rewarding but without a bunch of intolerable BS. So if that's all that's going on here... then godspeed.
How many slashes would a slashdot dot, if a slashdot could dot slashes?
Forking a large project is a tough, many-years job, it will need a lot more than just a few patches that weren't accepted to make it fly and it will need dedicated developers. But I think it's possible and I wish him luck.
There is a conceivable advantage to doing this. With some care, the forked linux kernel could be stabilized (something Linux really needs at the current juncture, frankly) and provide a goal for the FreeBSD linux emulation layer to go after, resulting in significant synergies between Linux and FreeBSD. Ultimately it might be possible to merge the device framework and solve the major problem that all kernel projects have of device-driver chasing by allowing developer resources to become more concentrated. That would be a difficult, but worthy goal.
-Matt
I post to Slashdot maybe one every few years... and it still can't convert line breaks to
's?
How many slashes would a slashdot dot, if a slashdot could dot slashes?
Being on 80% of smartphones and the majority of web servers sounds like winning to me.
This is why Linux will NEVER WIN
Hmmm...I think the world begs to differ since Linux is on the vast majority of hardware out there - everything from watches to super computers (far more breadth than *any* other operating system or operating system kernel out there). And then there's also:
"If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won." - Linus Torvalds
Which since Microsoft is now making a version fo Visual Studios for Linux, is using its own custom Linux Distro in its data center....
well, I'll just leave it to you, but it seems that Linux has indeed won.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
This whole PC culture is getting a bit out of control. Seriously.
Anyways...
It takes ZEAL and FERVOR to maintain such a beast as the Linux kernel. Linus started it and continues to curate it. Quite effectively too.
There's also a clear and consistent track record when it comes to how to go about incurring the wrath of Linus. So it's a bit like walking into a working kitchen... If you cannot take the heat then you should have either known what you were getting into or GTFO. ...StackTrace being optional in this case.
I am not forking the kernel out of a sense of entitlement. Nor am I offended or angry at any of my co-workers though we have had actual shouting matches that got personal on more than one occasion. On the contrary, I feel like my co-workers are family.
My list of accomplishments is very very short and none of them weighty or important.
But all of that is completely irrelevant to the point that I was making. AC GP, what you just did was nothing more than an ad hominem attack.
I never had a look at secure mode before. But it seems like a too coarse approach to me. You can not cut privilege level in three blocks and claim that is all you need. You might want access to some devices but not other, access to some part of the network but not other. secure mode looks too blocky to be useful in a real scenario.
What talent? The SJWs are all pretty talented at being hypocritical and shedding crocodile tears at the UN, but they don't seem to be any good at actually writing code. If they were then Zoe Quinn's "game" would have been more than reams of self-pitying text and some multiple-choice. A teenage script kiddie could do better. Sarkeesian would have several AAA titles under her belt instead of just talking about how everyone else should make games to suit her. That female kernel dev from yesterday would have forked the kernel herself or done something really impressive if she had the chops-- instead she apparently couldn't hang with the real bad asses and tried to make it sound like it was everyone being mean to poor little her. But as far as I can tell she butted into some good-natured ribbing between friends on the mailing list and got all offended at remarks that had absolutely nothing to do with her. Ellen Pao is precisely the same way: lots of talk and being offended but has never actually accomplished anything aside from ruining Reddit (love it or hate it).
The Oppression Olympics: it appears that each is trying to outdo the previous in the amount of outrage they can command from their ideological worshiping followers.
Poetering is the only programmer target of persecution I've ever heard of that actually doesn't deserve the hatred and who has actually accomplished something. But, oh, look: he's not a SJW and he doesn't make a living from being permanently offended; he makes a living writing code and gettin' stuff done (regardless of whether you hate systemd).
Yeah, I hate systemd, and I hate his reasoning, and the fact that his godawful software is being pushed under largely political pressure, but at least he doesn't play the victim card even though he's been the target of many undeserved attacks and abuse. The FOSS community will be much better off without the SJW "contributions". Kernel development should be done by programmers not by self-righteous whiners who complain on twitter about how offended they always feel instead of fixing bugs. We'll never hear of this fork of the kernel ever again because the people behind it are not trying to make good software. I'm not saying that Linus' methods are efficient or effective, just that the goals are different.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Linus Torvalds has made it very abundantly clear he hates the stupid "sjw" bullshit. And he does not agree or like political correctness. I applaud him for that!
Collectivism that political correctness pushes forces everyone to have same morals, ethics be tolerant of all and dumbed down since the "no child Left behind" initiative forces the smartest kids to learn at the same pace as the dumbest kids therefore dumbing down America's next generation.
Proof is look at the SJW morons, its a millennial generation primary group of uneducated to lower educated, dumbed down public school system generated group of a political correctness cult like lobbyists of Collectivism.
True freedom is individualism, humans are individuals we have different beliefs, biases, tolerances, and our own thoughts and speech.
I personally find homosexuality gross and disgusting. But, Oh No! I'm thinking for myself! I'm not "politically correct" so the collectivist sheep attack anyone that doesn't think and speak exactly like they do.
Just because it's gross and disgusting to me personally doesn't mean I'll stop them or not defend their right to do what they want, they can do whatever they want and I can do whatever or say whatever, that's individualism.
Another intolerance of the political correct movement is when I say I do not find black women attractive at all. Pale skin even untanned is what I find beautiful, they call me racist and attack me. All because I have a preference that sjw and political correctness cult retards don't tolerate.
Linus is also a strong firm believer in Individualism, so that's why I definitely support him over any collectivist propaganda spewing political correct parrots who are too feeble minded to think for themselves.
It is not nearly as wasted as your mod points.
Hypervisors are a really bad idea when you have high security requirements. They increase complexity and hence, attack surface. (And they have bugs.) In addition, you still have a distro in there, so in order to be somewhat secure, you still need the jails/sandboxing/chroot.
The increased complexity also makes attacks more complex, so for lower security needs, this can work.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Only if it is actually "talent" they are "running away". So far it seems to be quite the opposite.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
This actually matches what I have seen. I think this whole thing is about people with entitlement issues that think whatever great thing they do deserves unconditional respect and admiration. And when it then turns out their idea was not so smart and Linus is telling them in language that cannot be misunderstood, they look for fault with him instead of themselves. The language argument is completely bogus. In fact, when Linus rants at somebody, he is not disrespecting them, as he always gives rational reasons. Disrespecting them would be to add them silently to an ignore-list.
My take is that the SJWs and the self-proclaimed geniuses just cannot deal with running into people smarter and more experienced than them. The Linux core-team is admittedly one of the most high-powered engineering teams on the planet. And yes, there quite a few decisions they made that I do not like, but these are details in comparison to the overall achievement.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
"The way we have come up with to get around this is to .. get the binary signed by Microsoft." ref
This has to be the second most dumbest idea a kernel developers ever came up with. And forking the kernel has to be the most dumbest idea a kernel developers ever came up with.
This seems like a dig at Sarah Sharp, implying that she hasn't contributed anything, and further implying that one's argument is wrong or unworthy if you haven't contributed work. This is basically ad hominem. Whether someone has contributed work is irrelevant to whether their argument is sound or not.
Please help metamoderate.
Given the downmods each of us got in the pile, it seems this is a contentious issue.
Personally, I disagree with your assessment, but that said, I am aware that one person's fair assessment followed by a harsher and unequivocal reply if the assessment is rejected, may easily be seen by another as undue abuse.
I make no apologies for the list, because it reminds me exactly of a typical USAF flightline. Doing something dumb or misguided will get you a direct and to-the-point talking-to; first logical and fair, but increasingly harsher if you continue to resist even listening.
The reasons why are different but just as serious: in the kernel, screw-ups in design and/or direction can eventually destroy the kernel's usefulness and flexibility. On the flightline, screwups in procedure or behavior will eventually get you killed.
The harshness against any whining and/or backtalk in either case is not just someone being a turd - it's a reminder that there are reasons for things being as they are, and any proposed changes had better have a damned good reason up-front.
HTH a little.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
I've seen references to "don't get your panties in a bunch", Mr Garrett called "girly" in a negative tone, and a "pussy", in a negative tone. And people wonder why some form the opinion of developers as sexist?
And we all talk about OpenSource as choice, yet when someone chooses to leave a project because of non-technical issues such as language choice from managers, we deride them. So, choice is good, as long as you choose to follow what I tell you...
anyways, carry on.
Don't forget where he replaced any arguments against a contentious view he holds with "fart fart fart".
He and Sarah Sharp apparently took the same "Juvenile mockery of anyone that disagrees" course. I'm sure it'll be much better working with this kernel fork with that sort of childishness in control.
While I think it's unfortunate that some innocents get caught in the crossfire, the toxicity of SJW culture is simply so damaging that I think the approach of not giving an inch is the only tenable one. Once you start coddling specific individuals by sanctions against other individuals you immediately start up the competition of the most offended, the community fractures into group politics and productivity rapidly dissipates.
There's no utility in being deliberatly uncivil unless it's necessary to get a point across, but as soon as someone starts requiring special snowflake status and demonstrates a sense of entitlement to special care for theirs or others feelings then they should get that discussion shut down asap. Allowing the SJW mindset to start festering will do much more damage than the cost of losing a few good developers.
(And it's hardly the first time Matthew Garrett has figured in an SJW context...)
I love how he at the end puts f*cking.. after a full number of f-bombs. haha.
While I think Poettering has no clue about UNIX Architecture and philosophy and is doing work of negative impact, he is doing work and trying things. He is likely a pretty good coder, he is just no architect, and no UNIX person. And while I do not "hate" him, nothing of his stuff will ever make it onto my machines, unless he starts to get a clue.
Other than that, I fully agree.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
linux-4.0$ find . -type f | xargs grep -i garrett | wc -l
37
HTH
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Too bad. After "Matthew Garrett forks the Linux kernel", I thought the next sentence would be "and merged it into systemd". That'd make systemd complete, finally :-)
Well said!
I especially like the macro idea. Kind of a "safe-space faker" for those that cannot deal with reality.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The guy who implemented UEFI support in Linux, amongst other things.
BSD is a kernel and userland. If you want to normalize Linux and BSD, then each Linux distro is a fork.
FYI, *patches* will be moderated by someone other than me. As this is my *kernel*, not a government entity, I have the right to replace any *patch* I feel like with “fart fart fart fart”.
Matthew will soon add this to his new Management Style document.
Unlike the 'filthy, violent' old one:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Doc...
MGTOW would be more appropriate in this context.
(Unless you were referring to CAN bit timing?)
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Jails are much simpler and with anything security, simpler is better.
It's not substitute for actual nested VMs, though. One of these days, someone will resurrect the Fluke model.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
I'm not sure. He's either the Linda Lovelace of the Microsoft community or the Barbara Streisand of the Linux community apparently.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I post to Slashdot maybe one every few years... and it still can't convert line breaks to <br>'s?
if
I
remember
correctly
It does if your posting mode is "plain old text", and as far as I remember it has always been this way, even before you created your account.
You must have something else selected as your default posting mode, try clicking the Options button and see what mode you are using.
Enigma
Great. You run code by a nice wrong guy. I'll run mine from right asshole. Moron.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
This is totally off-topic, but why do I see so many people refer to it as "Visual Studios"? It's not plural, and I don't think it ever has been, where does that come from?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
"He is a recipient of the Free Software Award from the Free Software Foundation for his work on Secure Boot, UEFI, and the Linux kernel". Ah! All the bits that I *don't* want in the kernel.
It's sort of hard to boot on modern hardware without UEFI support, and hard to boot on Secure Boot systems without support for that too. Theoretically there's nothing wrong with Secure Boot as a concept, as long as you pick motherboard vendors that let you add your own signing keys.
Indeed!
Not literally of course, but still. Linus has been and still is in charge, and has managed OK.
But has also kicked out quite a number of good professionals, for no other reason than his narcissism, ego and at times completely dysfunctional communication.
"There's a shockingly large number of emotionally immature and insecure people in the Kernel community, and a great many people meet the wrath of those people for no good reason."
Precisely the problem. And their presence, the culture, has been initiated and is being maintained by Linus.
It is classical narcissistic behaviour; surround yourself with people whom you feel pose no danger to your world view in which you are a god. It results in a mob of people stupider than the narcissist, willing to follow and OK him on anything, and who display much the same (narcissistic) traits.
You mean the 'normal' people who were stuffing them into lockers, and are now demanding their feelings be respected when they do stupid things? Makes sense to me.
How do you know there aren't patches that are much more effective than those which were adopted? Can you say that he has managed it optimally? No management strategy based on ego will ever survive. I worry about the future.
Additionally, with respect to his hatred of BSD. I find that hatred of anything technological is stupid. I would hope that he has some technical / logical reasons for rejecting such things rather than just saying "it's stupid".
GC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Sarah seems rather talented, considering she (apparently) wrote and maintained the USB 3.0 code for Linux. And Matthew seems okay, having been awarded the 2013 FSF Free Software Award.
But the news here: A PNW Millennial and a Feminist do not agree with someone who is the architect of a giant, massively adopted project, and who has no time nor inclination to mentor people. It's going to be great in the next 5-10 years as the coddled Millennials meet the kind of international attitude where being overly polite is rude because it wastes time (German specifically, confirmed).
The Sarah Sharp thread shows her as a typical Social Justice Warrior who flies off the handle incomprehensibly. If she is a typical woman who saves everything up until it boils over (sorry for generalizing based on every woman I've ever met, minus two who do not fit the stereotype, but bear with me) then she may have a point that we just don't see in print. But we don't see it in print.
As for Matthew, This shows the reasoning behind Linus not adopting BSD style securelevels. Not that he refuses to listen - he clearly understands the limitations, and explained how he would accept an implementation of securelevels. In 1998.
And is it just a coincidence that he decided to fork after Sarah quit, and references that in his blog post? It doesn't matter, he's arguing a 17 year old point, and Linus has already said how he would accept the code.
More:
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LGNET/...
Matthew characterized is this way:
Is that anything like the same thing?
Sarah Sharp - Portland State University
BS, Computer Engineering
2002 â" 2007
Pacific Northwest Millennial
Matthew Garrett
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/...
".. I'm very aware of how different my life might have been if Hanna hadn't gone to the trouble of ensuring that I knew not to be a dick. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"In October 2014, Garrett stated on his blog that he would no longer contribute Linux kernel changes relating to Intel hardware, in response to Intel pulling their ads from Gamasutra over the Gamergate controversy."
Linus Benedict Torvalds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Linus Benedict Torvalds (born December 28, 1969) is a Finnish American
He later became the chief architect of the Linux kernel
At an online chat with Finlandâ(TM)s Aalto University, Linus explained:
"Iâ(TM)d like to be a nice person and curse les
your sig is hilarious - I almost spat my drink all over my monitor.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Yes, but in how many different versions and variants? Imagine if a tenth of that effort had gone into ONE project - it would have taken over the world already.
This is about the kernel. Used on all of the above.
It has taken over the world.
Or maybe it's not flawed but Linus doesn't want to waste time asking about it and trying to understand the design. He is not a god, he is indeed fallible, no matter what the cultists claim.
Reference: https://www.google.com/search?...
Beware of the Leopard.
Is it ok if RMS eats his own toenails? It's ok, because he's really smart any any GNU hackers know to what they're getting into and should be able to tolerate such behavior and learn to grow a thicker stomach.
But that's bullshit. Normal people would say "dude, that's just gross, stop it". So normal people on the kernel would either say "dude, lighten up" or else leave the project. When they don't things become dysfunctional, witness any corporation with an asshole CEO and the pandering followers who defend his actions.
So is Linus the genius who never does wrong and is never unfair in his constructive criticisms, or is he human and sometimes makes mistakes and chews people out when he hasn't taken the time to understand what he's ranting about? Cultist vs realist.
If you want people in open source, especially newer people, then you have to have a welcoming environment. Telling everyone that they have to grow thicker skin first is basically an advertisement against open source.
MS is using its own custom distro. Every different piece of hardware has its own custom distro. The work of the open source community towards a common project has been so fragmented (not to mention so co-opted) that it's not common. And on top of that, people treat each other like crap, so that good ideas become splinter schism religions instead of adding to one common greater good. There isn't one Linux; there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Linux-like or Linux-derived systems, with no real guarantee of complete interoperability. Maybe "Linux will never win" is an oversimplification, but I stand by it.
SJW detected.
You want some harsh criticism? And some direct, blunt communication?
People don't scare quote "hetero", because it's the antonym of "homo-". So why the hell are you scare quoting "cis-" when it's the antonym of "trans-"? This is basic Latin, and if you didn't take Latin, then it's basic Chem, and if you didn't take basic Chem, then GET OFF MY INTERNET.
Unless you're going to argue that transgendered/transsexual people don't exist, then stop scare quoting "cis-" like it's some sort of boogie word. It's the natural choice for referring to individuals who are not "trans-". And if "trans" is a word, then "cis" is a word. Just like "hetero" and "homo".
Don't like it? TOUGH! That's how language works.
WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
1) I don't care what RMS does with his toenails... it's his code and writing that I care about.
2) Who ever said that Torvalds "never does wrong"? Dude's not perfect, but he's managed to keep the kernel going strong this far. By comparison, what have you done?
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
But every time someone says "I've had it with Linus", the fans come out and accuse them of being in the wrong instead of Linus. Plus the stupid notion that you have to grow a thick skin in order to be a programmer with open source..
I'll agree to that.
FTFY
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Actually, it isn't so terribly important to get anyone into open source. I, for one, would like the open source environment like in the early 2000's. Back in those times, people who joined an OS project was genuinely interested in the project, and stuff like gender, race, nationality, was not important and often not known. People were judged by their commits.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
This is why Linux will NEVER WIN
Win what? The X-prize? A T-Shirt?
Linux doesn't lack brainpower & talent. Cite an actual schism which has drawn off participants from the linux kernel to a competing, redundant kernel. You have no clue of what you're talking about.
The only schism that I'm aware of in FOSS that actually had consequences was gcc/ecgs. Two competing groups with differing visions, which eventually led to a much more capable compiler and reunification.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
But he doesn't always give rational answers. That's the thing. Just saying it's only SJWs who have a problem with unprofessional, irrational behaviour is only ensuring this will continue. I know it's easy to paint those you don't like with a simple term to identify them as "them", but it really doesn't help your argument if you hand-waive their complaints away through some childish ad hominem. Seriously, it's embarrassing.
Therefor anyone who questions anything relating to computers and gender is instantly exactly like them and should be ignored. Gotcha. Yay for stereotypes and generalisations!
I am surprised that you did not provide any links to back your assertions. How can anyone take you seriously if you do not provide examples?
It should be noted that all of the examples that I have seen (the most public ones) have not bothered me in the least.
Maybe the kernel dev environment is not for you... without links, we will never know.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Um, you have any numbers to back that up? Because back when I did a survey of reported bugs that you could escalate privilege with a year ago, comparing Xen, KVM, and the Linux Kernel syscall interface, hypervisors came up more secure hands-down: within 2 months there had been 6 trivially exploitable vulnerabilities in commonly-used Linux system calls (ptrace, aio, &c). In KVM there were 4 in an entire year; in Xen there had only been 2 -- and those were only if you had really unusual hardware setups (like >5TiB of RAM).
What you cannot seriously expect is for your beliefs to be accepted without criticism by everyone else.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Ronnie Pickering!
when you introduce new software like this, the time is never right for some people so you just have to do it. this probably applies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
The whole anti-PC culture has gotten completely out of control. Everyone is so eager to see who they can offend and whose lived experience they can utterly invalidate on no grounds whatsoever. Everybody is so keen to silence any voices that challenges their established worldview and so defensive of their status that when sombody talks of eradicating fruit juice you can't be sure if he is a diabetic or a homophobic antisemite.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Well here is mine. I invented the installable live CD. I did it first. Damn near every distro in the world uses that idea today, but I was the one who invented it. Thats just item one on a very long list. I am probably the most accomplished free software contributor on my entire continent.
And I am proud to be a feminist because its a natural and utterly inevitable logical outcome of applying a shred of rational thought to human society and the realities of power dynamics. Go ahead and mod ne down. Call me an SJW. Claim that being a fucking asshole is somehow a critical requirement to being productive (its actually the exact opposite: a major detriment). You won't hurt my feelings because "hurt feelings" is a strawman that literally never has anything to do with anything we SJWs talk about. Silencing and oppression and stereotyping does and those are far more harmful than mere hurt feelings: they are how you destroy equal opportunity de facto when it's been gained de jure.
But I am a white male and secure enough in my accomplishments that acknowledging the huge role privilege played in them doesn't scare me. It doesn't make new feel guilty or oppressed. It's just simple reality. The only feeling I get from it is an urgent to share as much of that privileges with others as I can so we don't lose talented people because the opportunity to develop their talents was brutally denied them.
Go ahead take your best advice hominem shot. Watch me not flinch.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
MS is using its own custom distro. Every different piece of hardware has its own custom distro. The work of the open source community towards a common project has been so fragmented (not to mention so co-opted) that it's not common. And on top of that, people treat each other like crap, so that good ideas become splinter schism religions instead of adding to one common greater good. There isn't one Linux; there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Linux-like or Linux-derived systems, with no real guarantee of complete interoperability. Maybe "Linux will never win" is an oversimplification, but I stand by it.
Linux is just the operating system kernel, and there is only one real source tree - hosted at kernel.org - which has (a) thousands of options, (b) thousands of drivers, and (c) a few hundred CPU architectures, nearly all of which support every driver provided in-kernel. So there is only one Linux, but many builds of it depending on the use-case you're targeting.
Now to say each Linux distro is different is quite accurate. You can usually replace the Linux Kernel in most distro installations with your own custom variant that you made yourself - and I say most due to Tivoization where there's hardware+software locks to only allow the vendor to update it. Android really is just another Linux distribution; just like OpenWRT, Debian, or Slackware - it's userland is just dramatically different from other Linux distros, but the underlying Operating System kernel is still the same one as the others; it's just as close to a vanilla kernel as you get with Debian, Ubuntu, and Red Hat - that is, they all apply some patches for what they think makes it better.
So yes, "Linux wins", but there will never likely be any given Linux distro that will win. And honestly, Linus and the Linux Kernel community could care less about which Linux distro is on top or "winning".
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
This is totally off-topic, but why do I see so many people refer to it as "Visual Studios"? It's not plural, and I don't think it ever has been, where does that come from?
B/c it's really multiple environments. Visual Studio provides multiple studios - C#, C++, Managed C++, VB.Net, F#, J#, Visual Installer,.. all the Microsoft specific languages and technologies. They're even using it as the base for other tools - SQL Server Studio/Manager.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
Nobody is perfect and Linus also makes mistakes. Deal with it. It is either have the Linux kernel with Linus as he is, or it is not have it. You have your priorities all messed up.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You are probably thinking of the convenient type 2 hypervisors like virtualbox (or just kvm) that need a whole host OS to operate.
A type 1 hypervisor like Xen decreases critical attack surface drastically, especially if services like graphics are not present or are properly virtualized as in Qubes OS. Amazon AWS and EC2 also rely on Xen for security.
As for guest complexity, a certain amount of that is a given and will create opportunities for attack. The question is whether VM breakout is possible -- can all the other domains be kept safe from an attack on domain X?
Kernel-based permission systems are complex and practically guaranteed to fail. That is, unless, your user base is rather small.
In KVM there were 4 in an entire year; in Xen there had only been 2 -- and those were only if you had really unusual hardware setups (like >5TiB of RAM).
This makes an important point: Xen is pretty special in a field that already enhances security. Xen is basically the 21st century version of a microkernel, one that works in the real world.
No, I am not. Even a type 2 hypervisor increases attack surface significantly. The mere presence of a virtualization layer does increase attack surface. And all other attack vectors are still there.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
As I strongly implied, type 1 hypervisors are more secure, not less, than type 2. Try at least reading the parent post before lapsing into your "no, no, no..." mantra. Implying that type 2 is more secure is absurd.
If you haven't already stopped reading (again), you might want to read this: http://blog.invisiblethings.or...
In short, a jailed process on a host system still has a very complex, privileged kernel to try and exploit. But in a Xen guest VM, its only the complexity of the hypervisor interfaces that matter since the kernel is unprivileged and must go through the same interfaces to attempt an attack on anything else in the system.
Here's another way to think about it: BSD security literature relies heavily on jails. But what proportion of BSD-based applications are running in BSDs that are merely virtualized guests?
Finally, how do jails deal with attacks on firmware or misbehaving hardware? That I'm aware of, using an IOMMU to assign a (real) NIC on a PCI bus to a jail is not possible, and would be pointless if it were. But with hypervisors like Xen on hardware that supports IOMMU, assigning hardware devices to guest VMs is a feasible way to increase security that is growing in popularity.
It really does not matter. The "2" is a typo though (I am sure _you_ never make those....)
What you seem to fail to see is that you can still attack the kernel of a running VM under a hypervisor and then get all the benefits that brings you within the VM. But in addition, you can also attack the hypervisor and likely have other VMs on the machine which you then own. Not so when you run on the hardware itself, you then have no hypervisor to attack and no other VMs to own. Seriously, this is not difficult to see.
This, incidentally, has nothing at all to do with jails at all.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Add to that the fact that she's not a gamer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
was involved in a MLM handwriting scam:
http://webcache.googleusercont...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kotak...
This Sig does not Exist.
'Intel developer Sarah Sharp's challenge to Linux creator Linus Torvalds on the kernel mailing list, asking him to stop abusing and cursing at developers, appears to have been carefully planned' itwire.com
Seriously, it looks like some kind of joke about denial. You are invoking privilege escalation attacks, and a successful one against a guest kernel won't get the attacker much of anything *except* an opportunity to attack the hypervisor (or perhaps access to your other apps data, if you were stupid enough to group them into the same VM).
Relying on security that is melded into a highly complex monolithic kernel is always asking for trouble. A bare metal hypervisor is simpler by orders of magnitude and in practice appears to be proportionally more secure.
A successful privilege escalation on the guest gets the attacker several things: 1) all data on the guest and 2) all the communication capabilities of the guest and 3) all the memory and computing power on the guest. Hence it gets the attacker everything he wants. Attacking the hypervisor is a way to get even more or these things, and by a different route. In extreme cases, it may not even need a privilege escalation first.
The hypervisor does not and cannot replace kernel security and hence its mere presence makes things worse.
Really, what do you think attackers are after?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.