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Donald Trump Obliquely Backs a Federal Database To Track Muslims
HughPickens.com writes: Philip Bump reports at the Washington Post that Donald Trump confirmed to NBC on Thursday evening that he supports a database to track Muslims in the United States. The database of Muslims arose after an interview Yahoo News's Hunter Walker conducted with Trump earlier this week, during which he asked the Republican front-runner to weigh in on the current debate over refugees from Syria. "We're going to have to do things that we never did before," Trump told Walker. "Some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling that security is going to rule." When pressed on whether these measures might include tracking Muslim Americans in a database or noting their religious affiliations on identification cards, Trump would not go into detail — but did not reject the options. Trump's reply? "We're going to have to — we're going to have to look at a lot of things very closely," he said. "We're going to have to look at the mosques. We're going to have to look very, very carefully." After an event on in Newton, Iowa, on Thursday night, NBC's Vaughn Hillyard pressed the point. "Should there be a database system that tracks Muslims here in this country?," Hillyard asked. "There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases" Trump said. "We should have a lot of systems." Hillyard asked about implementation, including the process of adding people to the system. "Good management procedures," Trump said. Sign people up at mosques, Hillyard asked? "Different places," Trump replied. "You sign them up at different places. But it's all about management."
The cataloging, rounding up, and internment of the Japanese is one of the darkest and frankly most embarrassing chapters in America's history. I can't believe someone is honestly suggesting that we do this again.
I think they've done this project before.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Joke's on him.
The government already knows.
I'm not going to say what everybody is thinking. But I thought about it.
Make them stitch some sort of emblem to their clothing to make it easier to identify them. That works pretty good I heard.
Seriously America what the fuck?
What is wrong with people?
Let's have a proper /. debate.
No ... I am not proposing this. I am just terrified this is the direction things are headed. The current hysteria over a few mentally unbalanced fanatics really has me worried. The worst thing that can happen is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims, who are as horrified at the actions of IS as the rest of us, are marginalized and dissuaded from helping in rooting out this menace.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/...
Clearly there could be the rise of a charismatic egomaniac who preys on the fears and hatred of the conservatives, making groups out to be the scapegoats (Muslims, gays, immigrants... at least it's not Jews this time around). Everything Trump says about these groups are the same things that Goebbels and Hitler were saying about Jews. We are witnessing the rise of the radical fascists Europe had to deal with 80 years ago. How in the hell are people so damn fucking stupid not to learn from history?
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
For easy identification, just make them all wear a yellow crescent on their clothes. Maybe tattoo an id number to their wrists.
Déjà vu.
even /. can't ignore it. every other media is Trumped-up since that gets the attention. Ventura/Swartzenager were governors and Reagan got the brass ring.
No. This is all bullshit. Just some crap from the media. bait and smear
"Trump would not go into detail — but did not reject the options" apparently Not saying "NO" = "YES"
That might be antisemitic. Maybe the ADL will get involved.
How would the posters that are upset about this feel about applying this to the
Scientologists ?
Aum Shinrikyo ?
Golden Dawn ?
The KKK ?
Neo Nazis ?
Pegida ?
Republicans ?
Libertarians ?
People that have more money than you do ?
Just how do you feel about freedom of speech ? Woodrow Wilson at Princeton ? The Halloween costume of your choice ? Operation Rescue publicizing abortion practices ?
It seems that a lot of people have remembered the first amendment today and will probably forget about it by next week.
The Power of Nightmares 1: The Rise of the Politics of Fear (BBC-2004)
Today Trump released a statement saying the Muslim database was the reporter's idea, with his camp and conservative talking heads like Rush Oxycontin Limbaugh implying that the MSNBC reporter was laying a trap for him by asking such a provocative question while Trump was rushed for time. Of course the reporter was laying a trap but since Trump can't resist running his mouth whenever a microphone is put in front of his face he obliged and walked right into it.
Here is a transcript of what the reporter and trump said:
http://www.nationalreview.com/...
And here is Rush Fathead's spin on it:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/da...
Does anyone here not believe that every citizen and resident's religious, political, and social associations aren't already sitting in federal databases? This is part of what TIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., Prism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., and many of the related programs were really created for...
So basically Trump wants to make tracking databases that are already in use by law enforcement, intelligence agencies, and who knows how many private organizations public. Who isn't in a database nowdays?
Washington Post has none.
Who is this guy and what has he done with Trump? Trump doesn't waffle. Trump doesn't dodge the question. Trump is balls to the wall, 'Murica! Fuck Yeah! in every interview. So who is this guy who won't just say it?
Wait, wait wait. Does Mr. Donald Trump think he's a viable candidate?? Ahahahahahaha
That's funny.
Stop spreading liberal misinformation. Trump said no such thing. A liberal reporter suggested it and tried to draw Trump into a trap. If you don't understand how corrupt the liberal press is, you have no business posting anything in public.
Has anyone read it? Freedom from religious persecution is the #1 reason this country was founded. Everything else was secondary. Remember, this includes freedom to be atheist, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, Jedi, whatever. That freedom is worth more than ANY other.
He doesn't deserve to be called a Cow. Cows are innocent. Cows say MOOOO! MOOOO! Cows don't have a special permit license to carry a gun. Mooo say the cows. YOU NON-COW!!!
The man is a nut job and I really don't want him as president, but I don't think it is what he meant to say. He is doing the candidate thing and jumping to a talking point, database for Muslims may be what he was asked, but is not the question I think he was answering. With Syrian refugees being a big topic recently, he probably went straight to immigration because that is probably the group he thought he was being asked about. I would like him to publicly clarify. The funny thing about this is the American people are already in a database, multiple databases. SSI, IRS, geology, police, Walmart, Target, gas stations, your local grocery store. That rewards card you use to get a discount on gas or groceries are all there to track your actions in their respective databases. Target knows if you are pregnant based on changes in your purchasing habits. It is still scary, and shouldn't be a thing for a government to keep track of a group of people based solely on their religion.
Quick rant: He scares the crap out of me, he is a ruthless boss. He ran his businesses like a jerk and if elected he will run this country as a jerk and treat the american people like he treats employees. Also, his hair needs a banana for scale.
tldr: He was rushed, answered the wrong question, and was quoted with what I think was a easy misinterpretation. Still a nut job and not fit to govern.
Lately I've been feeling like I'm in a Philip K Dick novel.
Mostly random stuff.
The Qu'uran contains 164 different verses that preach Jihad. All the tree-hugging liberals out there that think all religions are nice and fluffy like Christianity need to understand that not all religions are like that. Islam is to its very core based on violence and subjugation intentionally, to spread itself virally. The Qu'ran doesn't say muslims should practice Jihad, it says they MUST. There is no "moderate interpretation" to be made here.
Call me strange but I think that anyone that admits they belong to any group (muslim or anything else) who's core tenets are that their members are required to murder innocent civilians absolutely deserves to be on some watch database.
So heck yeah, I completely agree with Trump about the creation of a muslim database.
Good move. Republicans are largely temporarily embarrassed millionaires living in their own fantasy world, and bigots. This should give him the bump in the polls that he'll need to win the whole thing.
Some sects of Islam actively seek overthrow of the US government by force. Since participating in an organization for the purposes of overthrow of the US government by force is a violation of the Smith Act, then a "database" of suspects for investigative purposes is no so far fetched. Are you supporting one of those sects? Participating in one of those mosques? I'm not seeing a lot of problem there when it comes to conspiring in support of armed rebellion against the US government.
It's all about management, human resources and firing. He wants to do some firing. Quickly, fill his remaining reality shows with Muslim candidates and interns so the he gets the need of firing Muslims out of his system before his ointment, I mean anointment.
That word "obliquely" - I do not think it means what you think it means.
sPh
http://www.nbcnews.com/politic...
He is explicitly asked should there be a Muslim-tracking database system to which he replies the whole nonsense about "There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases" and "signing up at different places" when asked about signing people up at mosques.
Nobody is putting words in his mouth.
He IS an idiot that does not think or listen to other people and talks in thought-terminating cliches but he clearly understood those questions and replied to them in his poorly thought through manner.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
In fact, Christian minorities have a number of special rights under the law, including representation in the parliament. Exactly what kind of country are we trying to become?
It is amusing to me how much gotcha attempts such as this piece and a lot of the comments help trump. The more this happens the more support he gets. The lesson isnt that Trump is a moron, it is that people are sick and tired of the endless political games. Trump, like him or not, is the only one who isnt playing stupid political game. So by all means, please keep bashing him, come up with more and more gotchas for him as he gets stronger with each failed attack.
To me it sounds more like having them wear something to single them out... maybe a yellow Star of David, as it worked so well in the past for the last group of fascists.
It did really remind me of the yellow stars.
That being said, do you believe for a *second* that they aren't already doing it? Obvious sources are every college application in the country (which have religious affiliation), facial recognition in photos online (in a picture with a half dozen Muslims?), facial recognition from city cameras (some have substantial tech behind what they do--NYC and DC come to mind), etc..., and that's just the low-hanging fruit.
its the wackadoodles that are the problem
when you get past CORE DOCTRINE and start treating Matters Of Faith as Doctrine you run into the problems
Christians in the Group need to remember
1 Corinthians 13:13 (deal with DBR after you prove you are not an Idiotic Jerk)
On the Muslim side
Would you mind NOT blowing things up and disturbing our potluck??
The Roast Beef and Lamb is from our Pastors Farm and was prayed over and everything before slaughter.
Trump gave a vague response to loaded questions.
Now that's what I call great reporting!
I came here to see how many people would be flipping their shit over the idea. I watched the video, and to my disappointment discovered that Trump didn't suggest anything about said Moslim Database, it was the Reporter shoving it down his throat. And if you listen to the conversation, it seems like the Reporter and Trump are talking about two completely different things!
Come on, ppl!
It's occurred to me that there is some cognitive dissonance going on:
When articles come up about H1B visas, it seems that a majority complain that it should be limited because they believe the evil tech. and software corporations just want more H1Bs so they can fire US born workers and replace them with cheaper workers.
But when the kind of people being considered to allow into the country are Mexicans who have nothing of value in Mexico so try (and do) come into the USA illegally, or random refugees, migrants, etc. from some extremely poor and/or war-torn nation, then it is considered racist to propose any sort of restrictions on their entry.
WTF?
Let's just apply the same standards from now on to all potential immigrants: If you object to letting in an arbitrary number of H1B visa applicants, you are a racist!
Youtube "how jews treat christians in israel" ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jG6kJm-50k ) and you will know how fascist those gold stars outshined their teacher and their teacher's primarily jewish leadership cabinet ( except Herman Goerring the goofy lowland Scott). In a goldstar state you get chased out of town while being accused of being a republica and illuminati. Kill them all, God will save his own.
Honestly I'm surprised that with all the stuff he's been saying, that he is still even getting support.
I came here to see how many people would be flipping their shit over the idea. I watched the video, and to my disappointment discovered that Trump didn't suggest anything about said Moslim Database, it was the Reporter shoving it down his throat. And if you listen to the conversation, it seems like the Reporter and Trump are talking about two completely different things!
Come on, ppl!
Watch it very carefully, the reporter is trying to get the asshole to say that he's against the idea, and Trump refuses to say so. He even goes so far to say that he's willing to do what was unthinkable a year ago. And elsewhere he says he'll get them into the database with "Good Management".
And put a database behind it
You know, a big relational database because we're gettin killed here
Considering the amount of spying and bulk surveillance that the NSA has been doing since the Patriot Act came into existence; what makes anybody think that the database Trump wants to create doesn't already exist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I don't know who of them is worse.
and trying to divert attention from the real candidates (Jeb & Rubio) while they go around the country trying out their material and wooing billionaires. He's basically a shield, which is why the Republican's tolerate him. He has the added bonus that he riles up the crazies and will make sure they come out and vote. Make no mistake, Trump is nothing but good to the Republican party...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Trump was in a campaign event, simultaneously autographing things for supporters and answering questions from a gaggle of reporters. A phony anti-Trump "reporter" from Yahoo started interjecting all sorts of whacko "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" questions into the mix of questions from other reporters about illegal immigration and screening for Syrian refugees. If you actually watch and listen to ALL of the raw video from the event, it's very clear he's addressing the border issues that are his campaign staple and that the faux reporter is intentionally trying to set him up and then later ran back to his keyboard to claim Trump called for all sorts of stuff Trump did not call for. In fact, the reporter even mis-attributes some Trump answers to a different reporter about a border wall as answers to his dishonest gotcha questions. Trump has said he was answering the questions he was obviously answering and did not even fully hear what the Yahoo idiot was even saying over the din in the room.
Pay attention to ALL the sound in the videos - the microphones are closer to the Yahoo fake so those questions are louder in the recordings, but you can hear the questions Trump is hearing and answering in amongst the background noise. People need to wake the hell up and stop being manipulated. This is an orchestrated attempt to eliminate Trump so that the GOP leaders can once again run feckless establishment guy (which is their idiotic preference) and Hillary can thus win (thus the Yahoo claptrap).
This is what passes for "truth" at places like Yahoo and the New York Times.
Let's see what answers a right-wing troll could get out of Hillary in a similar circumstance... probably could get her to seem to confess to being a space alien, but then you'd have to FIND somebody on the right who is capable of being 1/10th the troll of a typical left wing "journalist".
Trump's not even a right-winger... He's just threatening to upset the bi-partisan corruption-fest in Washington DC. There's nothing scarier to Wall St Bankers than a President who is not in need of their campaign cash, nothing scarier to the permanent army of lobbyists in DC than somebody who does not take their money (and therefore does not need to listen to them), and nothing scarier to the millionaire political consultant class in DC than a candidate who does not hire lots of consultants and speech writers. The Republican establishment is totally freaked-out by him and keeps trying to wipe out his campaign, and the Democrat establishment does not want Hillary to face him. Slashdot people are always calling for a 3rd part candidate who's not just a shill for one of the parties... here's your chance. Bernie is certainly NOT that; he claims to be a 3rd part socialist but in reality has spent his entire career caucusing with Democrats, campaigning with them, taking their money, advancing their bills... and the Democrat party likes him just fine. Trump's the only candidate in 20 years who the leaders of both parties DESPISE.
You don't think you're safe, do you? This dumpster fire will eventually involve the entire planet....all because "my make pretend friend has a bigger dick than your make pretend friend."
Wrong. It's 100% within the law. The supreme court has ruled that listing individuals is not punitive; that's why the no-fly, no-buy, sexual- and violent-offender registries can list anyone, any time, without conviction or a judge's order and there need be no recourse.
Here are the details. But the following "money shot" from the SCOTUS ruling is really all you need to know:
Held: Because the Alaska Sex Offender Registration Act is nonpunitive, its retroactive application does not violate the ex post facto clause.
Who gives a shit about Trump. He doesn't even listen to himself. He just opens his Trump hole and whatever you get out of it is whatever you get out of it. But you know, as long as we're wiping our ass with the Constitution anyway, gun violence kills a lot more Americans than terrorism does. Can we do away with that lot, too? Clearly they don't have any respect for the constitution (Or, probably, any idea what's in it) so it should be a no-brainer, right? Or is that one of those "hard" questions that hurts their feelings so much in the debates?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Trump is popular exactly because of these bullshit attacks. He's popular because Americans are *just* smart enough to see through attacks like this one, and feel the need to defend him. He's like Oliver North and Hillary Clinton squared. They get attacked unfairly, and people rush to their defense.
"Trump Obliquely backs a database of muslims"
Yeah, for extremely false values of "Obliquely".
A reporter mentioned a database, and Trump said something other than "go fuck yourself", so that's a "tacit" endorsement of a database. In languages where "tacit" means "not".
Full disclosure: I'm a liberal who gives money to Democrats. I'm just sick of people giving Trump oxygen by attacking him unfairly. If you can't figure out a way to attack him fairly, your'e really, really. really. really. really, really, not trying.
This is why Trump keeps going up in the polls - people keep seeing the extreme dishonesty of the people trying to tear him down.
The Yahoo reporter injected a bunch of out-of-the-blue got-ya questions into the middle of a pack of normal questions about border security by legitimate reporters. Trump is clearly answering those other questions about building a wall, deporting illegals, doing background checks on refugees, and building lists and databases about terror suspects, but the reporter who clearly knows what he is doing and all the Trump haters out there are clearly claiming Trump's answers to those other questions are answers to the Yahoo questions.
Anybody who thinks they are going to take Trump down with such transparently dishonest tactics, in an era when voters can go look at and listen to the recordings themselves, is smoking crack, and losing all credibility
IANAL, but the way I see it, it's fully Constitutional to keep undesirable immigrants out. The poem associated with Lady Liberty is a slogan--at Ellis island, many people with diseases were turned away. We didn't need more TB coming in, and they checked for things like that.
Once somebody is allowed in, they get certain rights; but not the right to stay until they are naturalized. Once they're naturalized they have full almost full rights (just a few special things are missing like becoming POTUS) so yeah we'd better be DAMNED SURE ABOUT PEOPLE before we let them in and naturalize them.
There's absolutely nothing that says we can't keep people out based on religion or even skin color if that's what we wanted. Yes. I went there. The Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens, at least not in the way that it does to citizens. We're fully within our rights to keep out undesirables. I'd even go so far as to say it's a vital function--providing for the common defense.
Now of course every Muslim is not a terrorist, but pretty much all the terrorists are Muslims so it's perfectly rational to keep them out. It's fully Constitutional. Of course Constitutional is not the same as "politically feasible", so... more mosques, coming soon to city near you, and all the troubles that come with it, just like in Europe.
Yeah, we've already got some of that, I know. We're just gonna get more because everybody's afraid to be called a racist. We're fucked.
Didn't we just recently learn the government is keeping track of ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY?
What difference does this make?
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
I watched the video and it seems clear to me he misheard the questions. He never uses the word Muslim himself. the reported just put it out there and it seems clear he thought the question is do we register immigrants.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It has already been proven beyond a doubt that the media baited, then fed him the lines, and when he didn't agree but didn't disagree ran with the story that he wants a muslim database. How more pathetic can you get? Reporting on this is the last straw. /. is no better than the slime that oozes from mass media's pores.
We already have a gun ownership database because of about three dozen lunatics in the past 50 years. So yeah. Y'alls turn.
You know, having some faith or being an atheist is not something you need to disclose or be honest about or which even needs to be constant. On the second-to-last census form, I wrote "Jedi Knight" and on the last one they sensibly allowed you do decline to answer or I would have put in "Pastafarian" (not US though).
Incidentally, while Christianity is an older and hence more sedate religion, it has a pretty bloody history and the argument is BS. It does come down to the individual person, not what their religion is. Fanatics are primarily fanatics, not fanatics for a specific religion or world-view. My guess would be that Trump just wants to track everybody and uses Muslims as a pretext for establishing the system for that. Once it works, add a bit more storage and you can easily keep tabs on everybody. After all, these days citizens are presumed guilty until proven otherwise.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The previous government party in Canada had quite a long run. One of their platforms was to play the anti-Muslim card (no Burkas during citizenship ceremony, or for those in government positions). Or attracted some people - though who knows if they were already party supporters - but ultimately they lost the election. Now to be fair they'd already pissed off a lot of voters due to various policies and scandals, but at the least this didn't get them the votes they wanted (it did get a number of raised eyebrows on the international news).
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the US.
Carson, by a mile.
Trump is an asshole.
Carson is batshit crazy; planned parenthood a government conspiracy for black population control? Really?
Seriously, that man just isn't right in the head--he may be good at one thing, but that's it.
The exchange was a trap by the reporter, after Trump just finished a long speech and was obviously tired. And even then, from the context it is obvious that Trump shifted his response to the Trump Wall, and he was talking mainly about that.
At no point did Trump actually say "yes we need Muslim database". As for "free interpretations", well, there are a thousand databases on EVERYONE already, including suspected terrorists.
In short, the press set up Trump. And everyone including Slashdot, fell for it. The result will only be increased support for Trump, because we the people see through the media's attempts to smear him. The circus is over.
Knowing the history and knowing the enormous breach of freedom this is, how can any presidential candidate not immediately answer "noooo! NO ! double no !" alone on the US and European historical precedent and the breach of constitutionality ? Remember they are supposed to uphold the constitution when elected.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
And it worked out well for them, didn't it? It seems that putting everyone you hate in a database solves all your problems. You can then build the country you really want and it will last for a thousand years. Not so?
Maybe get them to sew a little crescent moon on their clothes. And tracking is so, so hard and would be easier if we could segregate them into areas with high walls and guard towers. Obviously this will be disruptive so by way of compensation we can build them an excellent rail network which transports them to a "holiday" destination so wonderful they'll never come.
Nearly 12,000 Germans were interred during WW II as well.
I'm never quite sure why when internment is mentioned that this is left out. It could be that it's because it's historically obscure or smaller than the number of Japanese interred.
Or could just be that the fact that Germans were interred doesn't fit the "because racism" narrative of internment.
I gave you a link to a video where he is explicitly asked should there be a MUSLIM tracking database.
Not refugee, not immigrant, not Bosnian, Syrian, French, Belgian or Vulcan.
He was explicitly asked should there be a religion-based tracking system.
To which he replied yes, expanding it to "a lot of systems".
The "out of context" situation you are imagining never happened. Explicit question - followed by a mindbogglingly retarded answer.
Now... you can prattle on about him talking about something else, or being confused, or senile, or drunk... which caused him to hear "MUSLIM-tracking" and translate that to "whatever it is that YOU think is less volatile".
The fact is that this is just another case of him showing that he is thinking in "ferner" generalizing metaphors - mostly about brown people.
You know... like those Mexican drug-dealers, criminals and rapists.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
He acutely called for a database:
Nothing subtle there.
Cause I linked (and quoted) a video of him hearing, thinking over and replying to an explicit "MUSLIM-tracking question".
He replied with a YES. Adding that there should be "a lot" of tracking systems, beyond databases.
Which makes your either-or question a deliberate lie. Not just a terribly embarrassingly set up false dichotomy.
I'm getting fremdschamen just thinking of it.
So it's not a question did I hear the actual exchange. The question is are you just a troll, an idiot, delusional or some combination thereof.
Now, to that the answer would be irrelevant. To me.
But you should check that and hope that you're just a dickhead troll. Mental illness is not something to be taken lightly.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Listen to the actual conversation. The reporter proposes the database idea, Trump turns the conversation back to boarder control. That's it. The media is not reporting news here, they are generating it themselves. I'm not a big Trump fan but the other side of the coin is starting to look just as scary.
Had you said a glorified brick salesman it would have made more sense while being less of an exaggeration.
As for obfuscation, he must have went to the Giorgio A. Tsoukalos school of obfuscation and denial.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Trump: Why would I want to track myself, I know where I am!
Interviewer: I said ragheads, not rugheads.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
after all when you have rounded up all the cab drivers, then the polticians are going to have to employ chaffeurs to drive them around.
Because the new testament doesn't replace the old one. Because if you remove the old one, there's fuck all in the new one.
No god.
No creation.
No original sin.
Nothing to forgive and nothing to do the forgiving.
Without the OT, JC did not die for any of our sins, since those sins are OT.
And with the OT, EVEN BY THE CLAIMED DIRECT TESTIMONY OF JC, JC is not god. And did not change a SINGLE THING from the OT until the prophesied "End of Days".
Moreover, you morons still read it and accept it as the word of god, just like muslims take the quran and accept IT as word of god.
And JC insists you should hate your parents. And that parents should kill their children if they are disobedient.
And, oddly enough, insists that you must give up all your worldly goods to follow him. I don't see you or any other xtian insisting that the NT and ONLY the NT be considered actually doing what the NT says...
I've heard variations on this story for the last few days and I wish I were surprised it keeps getting reported with all of the relevant portions removed that make it a non story. If you listen to the raw audio or read the text you will see he basically ignores the question that was asked and talks about building a wall to control illegal immigration.
Reporter : "Should there be a database system that tracks the Muslims that are in this country?"
Trump : "There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases. We should have a lot of systems, and today you can do it. But right now we have to have a border. We have to have strength, we have to have a wall, and we cannot let what's happening to this country happen again."
REPORTER: But is it something your White House would like to implement?
TRUMP: Oh, I would certainly implement that, absolutely.
REPORTER: What do you think the effect of that would be? How would that work?
TRUMP: It would stop people from coming in illegally. We have to stop people from coming into our country illegally.
If you only react what someone tells you is true and don't check the raw information it's easy to be misled. Trump will say a lot that some people won't agree with or downright hate, but at least let it be his stances you don't like and not a reporter inferring what he meant by interpreting the answers to fit the scenario he prayed would play out or a channel editing it to make the soundbites fit the emotion they want to place in you.
Slashdot, still shilling for the democrats after all these years.
The reactions that we have been seeing in response to the Paris and Beirut tragedies by GOP politicians really boil down to a lack of empathy for humanity. Unfortunately this seems to be a trait of people who claim to be religious, whether they be conservative Christians or conservative Muslims, which always boggles my mind.
As a practicing Muslim American who has spent most of my adult life, the last 20 years or so, in America, it is sad to see the direction we are going in.
I still remember when I first starting hearing about Taliban, and I was like no fucking way, are they really reading the same book I am, how the fuck can they justify a complete lack of humanity.
The past few years I have been seeing an entire populace being objectified as something less than human's, Palestinians, because of biblical interpretations, Deash or Isis which puts anything we have seen as insanity in the past look like ponies and unicorn and I continue to be amazed.
I know and understand what I read and I am sure that the same can be said of Christians or any other intellectuals who take religion beyond what is written and understand the context, the message always is and always will be of all religions that humanity and empathy is above everything else, but loud and obnoxious voices always seems to win.
The "he didn't say that the reporter did" crowd has some serious denial going. Yep. It's the liberal media again. Or something. The reporter said "database", Trump agreed and kept going with it.
Spin it away on slashdot if you want. Everyone knows what he said and where he stands, or stood for a moment actually. I don't for a moment believe Trump really holds any of his far right positions out of ideological commitment. He sees the open lane politically and he's going top speed. Once President? He'd be fine with whatever came across his desk as long as it said "Trump" somewhere.
The problem is that the whole thing lends itself to "wackadoodles". You have an entire system of belief based on nothing but hearsay ... Then people believe this stuff with no evidence for it ... take some part of that "literal truth" and decide that it really means you need to go murder some people.
Unfortunately, trying to stop it also has bad history. Meme-infected people tend to remain meme-infected until death when opposed (because opposition tends to reenforce such memes), and forcible brain-washing normally doesn't work (though it may get them to pretend to have changed their beliefs, in order to make the pain stop or avoid death or mutilation). Meanwhile there's a long history of people infected with OTHER religious memes using governmental power to wipe out the believers in competing religions.
The history of Europe, in the centuries before the framing of the US' Constitution, was full of disastrous religious wars, and many of the religious groups in the Americas were here to escape this. One of the groups was "The Separatists", the (colorfully dressed "Pilgrims" of the Plymouth colony, often conflated with the "Puritans" who settled a bit farther north) who held, as a core belief,the separation of the church and the state (because each would corrupt the other).
This ideal was built into the first Amendment of the Bill of Rights, pushed by many leaders of small religions (who knew that, if the government picked and promoted a church, it was unlikely to be theirs, and the religious wars would start over here). The US federal government (and, though "incorporation", the states and their subdivisions) is prohibited from doing anything, for or against, any specific religion (including dogmatic non-religion).
And Islam was known to the framers. It shows up in their debates, where it is held up as an example of a non-Christian religion for which the same arguments can be made, for and against, as are made with respect to Christian sects.
So tracking people by religion, as religion, is right out, and any such plan would almost certainly be gutted the first time it hits the courts.
If the government wants to go after the I.S. brigands, it needs to frame the laws and activities in terms of their civil actions, without respect to any religious motivations or professed religious claims.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Trump exact words:
A reporter suggested the idea. Trump wants to create a database for Syrian refugees, which - irrespective of better or worse an idea - is different than what is being reported (and anyone - senator, candidate, or news reporter) who pushes this without checking to see if it is correct/accurate should be ashamed.
no db required.
I would recommend DB/1 on an IBM 360 with COBOL68. Pretty cool stuff!!
Too bad the Hunter didn't tell the "REAL" story. I was there and hear the exchange and it was nothing like the story was told!
http://dianadigunawan.blogspot... i hope the world peace.
Oops. Time to update the talking points:
I'm sure Trump didn't really say that either.
sPh
If you're not from my caste/religion, you're non-human to me; I can abuse/exploit/rape/harm you; Brahmin are covertly promoting caste for past 2000 years in your country; http://wh.gov/iyhMK
Casteism
The Japanese certainly did use a 5th column of residents in SE Asia to pave the way for their invasions, so why would we assume that they were not also doing it in the USA?
All those troop ships and Navy vessels leaving through the Golden Gate were very vulnerable to IJN submarines. There was just too much at stake to risk the assumption that all Japanese Americans were loyal citizens.
War is never fair.
While not probably obvious, I'm sure many such "databases" exist already, they just are not really out there in the public consciousnesses.
For example, the "No Fly List". where do you think that comes from? How are people put on it? What criteria does it take to be put on it? Etc... I remember a story years ago, that Cat Stevens was mistakenly put on the list, probably in part because when he converted to Islam he changed his name for example.
So while people are getting all high and mighty about the topic, I am sure meany such questionable measures have been in place in the US for many years already. At least he is being upfront about it, insofar as any politician can be.
Personally I think it is wrong, and over the top, but then again, "over the top" is basically Trumps campaign in a nutshell!
Actually, you are perpetuating misinformation. Trump was "jumped" while signing autographs after an hour and a half speech at a campaign stop. He did not hear the reporter's line of questioning and thought he was talking about illegal aliens. Trump never actually said that he believes there needs to be a database to track Muslims. This has been conveniently blown all out of proportions. At this point, every progressive and liberal extremist is going to try their best to topple this guy.
Trump says what most Americans think, not the 22% on the extreme left. Continuing to spread this false story in an attempt to further amplify it is disingenuous and not journalism.