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A Colorado Group Wants To Ban Smartphones For Kids (apnews.com)
An anonymous reader quotes the AP:
Colorado officials have cleared the language of a proposed ballot measure that would establish the nation's first legal limits on buying smartphones for children. Backers of the move to forbid the sale of smartphones to children younger than 13 would now need about 300,000 voter signatures for the proposal to make the 2018 ballot. The ban would require cellphone retailers to ask customers about the age of the primary user of a smartphone and submit monthly reports to the Colorado Department of Revenue on adhering to the requirement. Retailers who sell a phone for use by a youngster could be fined $500, after a warning.
A Denver-area dad is leading the campaign -- a board certified anesthesiologist who says children change when they get a cellphone. "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
A Denver-area dad is leading the campaign -- a board certified anesthesiologist who says children change when they get a cellphone. "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
easy to clip this on to a bill banning burner phones then to just go for a age ban.
sounds like the guy who came up with this should grow some balls and put his foot down and say no to his kids instead of relying on the government to make a law so he can have an excuse
If this were law, there would be two easy solutions: for those without a lot of money, continue to give kids used phones to play with, and for those with money, pay the retailer an extra $500.
My daughter's phone has helped her be more outgoing, she rides the bus downtown knowing she can call in help if she gets stuck, she communicates among her friends and arranges outings. There is good and bad in the cell phone usage but she's not glued to the phone playing games incessantly.
Nullius in verba
Lovee-Dovee-Lovee-Dovee ALL THE TIME!
Our childhoods were not permanently recorded because we didn't have smartphones. At most your dad had a camcorder. Smartphones changed this. And this is before you even get into the experience of that Denver guy who is watching these electronics sap his kids' will to live.
Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?
My kids got phones when they were 8. We can find them if they get lost, it makes it easy to coordinate pickups. It gives us more freedom to let them go and do what they want, since they can call if they get in situation they can't handle. In fact, we don't let them leave home without their phones. I don't see the downside. I don't think I need an anesthesiologist to tell me how to raise my kids.
Was a Low-Tech Parent (Sept. 10, 2014) https://www.nytimes.com/2014/0...
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Perhaps kids still are outgoing, energetic, and interested in the world. Just through the portal of their phone, through which they can learn about literally anything and come into contact with billions of people around the planet. As opposed to just being able to learn about things around them and meet only people nearby.
What's wrong with that asks the guy that spent more time on /. this weekend than around other people.
It is not enough for him to simply not give his own children a device. Instead, he is seeking to ban, what he does not like.
Oh, by the way, would somebody please think of the children?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
How big problem is it that little kids buy smart phones without permission? And keep it hidden from their parents while shutting in unto their rooms? Even if smartphones would be bad for kids is this really needed?
...this presumably highly intelligent anesthesiologist discovered "teenagers".
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Just what we need, more of the government telling us how to raise our kids. I personally haven't given my kids smartphones until they were 15. But I can certainly see circumstances other people might have in giving their kids smartphones and everyone's circumstances are different. Just because it may be a bad idea in general, doesn't mean it's a bad for everyone. Keep the decision making in the hands of those who know the kids and their circumstances best.
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You ever see a kid with books, they spend their time reading instead of playing outside and socializing. We should ban children from reading so we can have better adjusted children.
I'm pretty sure he's more from Boulder than Denver. The town where patchouli is the closest thing to a vaccine the kids will ever see.
Replace the word Smartphone with Television and we've gone back to the 1950's. One more step and we can start smashing looms! #luddite
I have no plans to give my daughter, or any future children of mine, a smartphone. Ever*. I already limit iPad time (it's mine, not hers), because I want her to remain interested in other things. But, I don't need any government, or even other parents, telling me how to raise my children.
* my position is that when she can afford it, she can buy it. She's not banned from having one; she's just not going to get it from me.
The thinking is that technology interferes with creativity and young minds learn best through movement, hands-on tasks, and human-to-human interaction. Take for instance Waldorf schools. Students at these schools are gaining math, patterning, and problem-solving skills by knitting socks. They aren’t exposed to fractions through a computer program. Instead they learn about halves and quarters by cutting up food. Sounds a bit like summer camp? Well, yes, but parents in Los Altos and at over 150 similar schools across the country say the Waldorf method works and they’re sending their kids to top colleges, from Oberlin to Berkeley. That's my five-and-one-half-cents!
That would encompass even the dumbest phone from 10 years ago.
Leave it up to parents to make this decision and enforce it themselves.
Me, personally, I'm happy to give my kids a dumb phone like a Nokia 2110/3210 to use for contact purposes. They don't need a smartphone or a tablet. If they want one they can save up their pocket money and buy it for themselves, but it's not coming from me. I've seen too many kids lose/break/destroy their smartphones and then expect to get another one, not valuing them at all. The anti-social aspect of them is just another version of giving kids an Xbox or Playstation and then wondering why they don't go outside to play any more.
Shold not have been down modded
Why is the retailer responsible for what the parent/child will do? If politicians don't want children to have a phone, write a law saying exactly that. Stop this 'blame a third party' bullshit. This isn't going to stop adults giving phones to children. Ideally, one won't give a smart-phone to a child. Alas, the only locked-down GPS-phone I could find was Moochies kids watch.
People change when they do drugs, get drunk, get their own car: The big question; does it define their life? Children with a phone can still visit other children and share outdoor activities together: That's a point of a phone.
parents in Los Altos and at over 150 similar schools across the country say the Waldorf method works
Can you cite any actual evidence that they are right?
The core issue is what the child is accessing on the smartphone.
That, my friends, can be addressed by a responsible parent that cares for their child's wellbeing. No need to introduce legislation!
I wonder where the problem REALLY lies here.
..but I think smartphones aren't all that great anyway. When some people get so wrapped up in whatever they're looking at on their smartphone that they literally bump into you walking down the street (or into a stationary object, or walk out into traffic, etc), then you have to wonder if they're being misused. Then there's the complete lack of security; any given smartphone, regardless of manufacturer, could be infected with malware, and the owner of the phone might never know about it, even if they never went to any risky URLs, never opened a suspicious email, and never clicked a dubious link. Then there's the fact that your smartphone might have malware baked right into the firmware from the factory. Meanwhile you're paying a premium every month just to have it connected to your wireless companys' network. Think about it: we live in a world where there are people right now who'd rather text each other than talk, even if they're in the same room. Does that seem right? It's easy for someone to say "well, it's a communication tool, I use it to stay in touch with people, and I can research things on the internet, and I can pull up a map to find where I need to go", but when people have their eyes glued to it practically every waking moment? Despite being told not to people are using their smartphones in theatres, and despite hefty fines and risk of being killed in an accident, people are constantly screwing around with their phones while they're driving. Doesn't it really sound like this 'useful' communications tool is being heavily abused to the point where it's more of a nuisance than it is a tool? Let's not even get started on the stories about people who have had thousands (and TENS of thousands) of dollars charged to them because their kids bought things in games or online on their phones..
I don't have a smartphone. I can't justify the expense of the hardware or the monthly connectivity cost, and I especially can't justify carrying around something so incapable of being secured properly against intrusion and against malware infection. Nor do I care to carry around an electronic leash that allows anyone with access to know precisely where I am and perhaps even listen in on what I'm doing or turn on the camera and see what I'm doing. The so-called 'benefits' of the connectivity and processing capabilities are just not anywhere near sufficient to mitigate all the expense and all the problems and deficiencies associated with it. Now we find that perhaps the technology itself, because of how it's misused, overused, and abused, is potentially destructive to kids. Really makes me wonder what it is we've allowed to be done to us.
I'm not aware how anesthesiology is related to smartphones and/or children. This sounds more like he's failed as a parent, or that his kids are turning out indoorsy (just like he did, being a doctor and all).
Anyway, he seems to be at a certain age where he's willing to get his knickers in a twist like he had menopause, which is weird for a guy.
I guess 13 year olds magically have money and cars now to go to the store and buy smart phones. Oh wait, they don't. If you can't tell them no, then you tell them hell no. You're not their friend, you're their parent. Now regarding the burner phone slipping into a Bill idea mentioned, that's an actual possibility when retailers have to ask who you're buying the phone for. They make you show a drivers license for phones that have no contracts like Straighttalk, and that eliminates the point of the phone for some people. Your name is now associated with the device. Though, this may encourage more "dumb" phones in the market which will ironically be a much better burner phone.
Parents want to keep an eye on their kids. That used to be easy. Now, though? The kids interactions are largely digital, staying shut up in their room or curled up on the couch with a phone. They could be studying hard, taking advantage of that little device that gives them access to the sum of all human knowledge. Or they could be arguing with people. Or wasting their time collecting meme images about cats. Or looking at porn - because, sorry parents, but sexual curiosity is not a switch that flips upon the morning of the eighteenth birthday. It's very easy to keep secrets from parents, and so parents are terrified.
According to my parents and grandparents, these exact problems are also caused by television, computers, video games, CD players, headphones, radios, books, legos, plug-in telephones, fast food, and anything else that an adolescent might interact with.
You can not give them smartphones even if giving them smartphones isn't illegal.
IIRC they beefed up the requirements for a constitutional amendment last year, and I'd be surprised if that gets enough signatures to get on the ballot, much less get approved by the voters. This sort of busybody legislation traditionally doesn't go anywhere and this story wouldn't be news until it at least ends up on the ballot, except that it's clickbaity enough to get a lot of clicks.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Correction: Motherfucker needs a cellphone jammed up his ass and another one in each eyeball.
Are under 13 yo's going out and signing phone contracts?
Of course there is plenty of evidence. The same evidence that proved that having computers in their bedrooms was destroying their future. Like all the crap we get fed it is always based on a few anecdotal cases that we are expected to believe are automatically the rule in every case.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Sounds like a good prescription to me!
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Ever heard of a certain app called Pokemon Go?
Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?
They aren't trying to ban cellular telephones for kids, they are trying to ban smartphones for kids. The important difference here is that one is a telephonic communications device and one is a small computer. The reason this matters is because it's the applications that engineered to maximize user interaction using neuroscience. This can lead to very real addictions regardless of age in a similar fashion to gambling addiction. Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.
I'm not arguing in favor of the ban, I'm just answering your question.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
...let's also ban TVs and calculators.” –Luddite Fascists
Error: NSE - No Signature Error
Dumbphones are ok. Smartphones are not.
Smartphones are a risk for everyone's mental health, not just kids'.
Respectfully, they don't need smartphones for any of what you mentioned.
decline in IAP revenue
I'm totally not pro computer/smartphone for kids. But I doubt that Waldorf schools are much better than ordinary schools (at least here in Germany). If you draw such a conclusion, you must control for other differences, e.g., having wealthier parents and probably other stuff.
Just interact with these kids for 10 minutes and you'll know it works.
I have noticed a strong correlation between children growing hair in their pubic region and "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities.". Perhaps mandatory shaving of the pubic region would solve the problem as much as banning pre-adolescents from owning cellphones, as coincidentally the correlation also seems to exist with growing pubic hair and desire to own a cellphone.
No cellphone up his ass. If you put it on vibrate, he just might enjoy it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Read the post again. That the kids there turn out great does not establish causality. You must account for confounding factors (a proper controlled study).
i'm only 30 but I didn't get a mobile until i was 16, and that was a 3310. But if I was born later I would use a smart phone as a Kid. Sounds like this "father" needs to visit /r/Phonesarebad. Meanwhile scientists recommend iPads from birth.
"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
Of course there's evidence of this, it just changes every couple of years. Previous candidates: Heavy metal, Dungeons and Dragons, [...] stamp collecting, trading cards, [...] Morris Dancing, [...] cave painting [...] banging rocks together. I've left out a few hundred of them just to save space.
Every kid pre cell phones had the freedom to go where they wanted and do what they want. My mom used to tell me to be back when the street lights came on and off I went on my bike. No cell phone. You need to stop being a helicopter parent and let your children be children.
I don't think interacting with the kids at a kindergarten for 10 minutes will have the outcome you think it will.
"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
Sure they haven't just discovered porn?
I think computers, phones and the internet have actually cut down on kids turning to gangs.
The board certified anesthesiologist may be missing the point: these kids who no longer appear outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy to him may be not reclusive at all, but instead finding a wider world through their phone connection to it.
Same thing happened to teenagers who got cars in the 1950s, they used to be around the house doing homework, chores, going to bed on time, etc. and suddenly they're always gone, hanging out with new people at all hours doing god-knows-what.
Not saying that it can't go bad - freedom isn't utopia, but neither is being locked in a cell with no access to the outside world.
Stick that in your vent tube and huff it.
Yes, involving the whole body in learning is far better than squeezing all input through a 3.5" screen, and all output through the thumbs.
However, parents in Los Altos can afford Oberlin to Berkeley- that's my 2 cents in change.
Hey, we elected a senile spray-tan with a toupee (or at least a very convincing imitation of one), why not vote for some more "common sense" conservatism?
'Those darned teenagers! Spending hour after hour on the phone!
There you go, you can consider yourself informed and cited.
Then don't buy one for your kids?
Argle Bargle, that was an excellent arglebargle. Made me laugh. I agree.
Morris Dancing? I found this: Bad rap for morris dancing
Quote from below, edited: "Radio in the 1940s, TV in the 60s, D&D in the 80s... There has never been a shortage of parents who didn't understand new technology and needed a scapegoat to blame their bad parenting on."
Sounds like kids could still use dumb phones (including most burner phones) to make calls and send/receive texts? The issue seems to be access to the Internet? I can see benefits to little Bobbie being able to tell mom where he/she ended up after the school bus broke down. Not owning a smartphone myself, I have no idea what evil influences smartphones expose pre-teens to.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.
There are a whole lot more adults that are simply addicted to avoidant behavior. If it wasn't smartphones it would be TV. Before TV it would've been a book.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"humans change when they get a cellphone. "They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
Not sure why in the hell we're being rather ignorant as to the real impact of these devices, as the adult is reduced to emulating ancient cavemen, communicating with emojis scribbled on a (digital) wall in a society that champions reclusive Netflix binge sessions.
And to clarify, kids are interested in a world; it just happens to be a digital one. They become social media addicts striving to be the greatest narcissist in the universe, broadcasting their every move to the entire planet. "Outside activities" are not what is rewarded in this world anymore. How many friends, clicks, and likes you can amass every day is what is rewarded. Parents, if you're wondering where they got this from or how to curb it, remember that kids learn from their environment.
Not having any children I don't have any input on the best method to educate them but it sounds a lot like the best programming language wars. Whatever the merits or pitfalls of a particular language (or method) ultimately what differentiates a good coder vs a bad one, is not their choice of programing language but rather the time and effort the programer dedicated to the mastery of their skills
If you have to ask that question, perhaps you shouldn't have. Now, phones are fine (non-smart phones). They fit the job you needed them to do. However you must keep in mind that the testing involved that regulates acceptable radiation etc, was tested on adults. This is NOT suitable for children as development and overall time of exposure is not even remotely comparable to adults.
As far as smart phones there are plenty of well established studies that say limiting TV (for framerate mainly) for young children is a very good idea. Doctors push this for a reason. It screws up their mental development which doesn't officially cease until the mid 20's. They are also holding a vulnerable device which can be utilized by nefarious people for nefarious purposes. Due to the lack of robust parental controls, and the lack of parent knowledge of them, there is a huge risk of them using apps that they shouldn't be using. Snapchat, WhatsApp, Signal, KiK, just to name a few. It is hard to police them. And if you can't police them they will be using those apps to do things you will not approve of. Henceforth, why smart phones are not a good idea.
Just replace "cell phone" with "Nintendo", and this guy sounds just like my dad sounded growing up.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Why is the US obsessed with fractions? Is it simply because of Imperial measurements (feet, inches etc.)?
Most developed countries seem to treat fractions as something you teach kids to get them started, before they move on to real division. In everyday life people more often use percentages, e.g sales will be "50% off" rather than "1/2 price".
Anyway, I'd be careful about attributing the children's success to techniques like this. Those schools look really nice, well funded. It could easily be down better diet, for example.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Would this affect the first amendment
I'm not an American, but I would have to wonder if this would be an encroachment on the first amendment
You are training your kids to never be without their NSA tracking device.
Do you actually work for the NSA or are you a volunteer trainer for them?
Indeed. There's going to by talking, followed by anger, followed by crying. And there's no telling what the kids will do.
#DeleteFacebook
Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?
"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
Guess that depends on what you consider a downside, and if they're exhibiting any of it. Also consider how society has changed. What we used to call a narcissist society now labels a social media celebrity.
To each their own, but as we champion how technology has made life better, we should understand and respect it can also make life worse, which you may not realize until it's far too late. 70 years ago people enjoyed the fact that their doctor would sponsor cigarette smoking. Obviously we discovered a considerable downside with that activity decades later.
So the solution is quite clear: ban books.
#DeleteFacebook
I see a lot of non-parents commenting on how people should simply not buy their kids a smartphone. Then your kid comes home and says they couldn't get on a computer at school because they were all broken and the rest of the class did the assignment they needed to do on their phone and the teacher condoned this. Then you find out it isn't that simple.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Whatever the merits or pitfalls of a particular language (or method) ultimately what differentiates a good coder vs a bad one, is not their choice of programing language but rather the time and effort the programer dedicated to the mastery of their skills
Oh, I'd disagree. A COBOL or Visual BASIC programmer, for instance, has no idea about a whole range of functionality that they're missing. They might be a great programmer compared to others in their chosen language, but their language constrains them in ways that prevents them from reaching their potential as compared to what's possible had they chosen a different language. Not only that, but their choice of language may make it inherently difficult for them to switch to another language, as they will have to expand their knowledge base around more than just syntax to be proficient in them.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Why is the US obsessed with fractions?
Because that's the first major stumbling block in how math is taught in the US. If you can't get past fractions, you are doomed to relatively low-level jobs, because your education just stopped.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
So the solution is quite clear: ban books.
Right! And then ban playing cards, and board games, and then once you've taken everything else away you'll have to ban genitals
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Is there any actual evidence that phones are bad for kids?
My kids got phones when they were 8. We can find them if they get lost, it makes it easy to coordinate pickups. It gives us more freedom to let them go and do what they want, since they can call if they get in situation they can't handle. In fact, we don't let them leave home without their phones. I don't see the downside. I don't think I need an anesthesiologist to tell me how to raise my kids.
I wouldn't feel safe with having my 8 year olds go somewhere alone without an adult. No matter how much I trust the kid, they don't know about certain dangers at that age, and there are certainly adults who you can't trust.
Maybe you live in a super sanitized safe area compared to me.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
When will people stop trying to pass laws to force their beliefs into others and stop trying to rely on the government to spread some sort of religious (based on belief) message?
I mean, really, how people can be this stupid? As far as I know, being a "board certified anesthesiologist" does not qualify you to pass laws based on whatever crap you believe without any proof. And even if he had any proof, trying to pass a law would not be the way to go - this is the competence of regulatory bodies. The fact that he's not going through proper procedures already shows how biased the whole thing is.
This is no different than the crap about violent games, TV, rock music, or that damn subversive literature that is destroying our kids.
And in the end, it's just a fucking waste of time. Like any retailer would ever submit a report that automagically forces them to pay a $500 fine. Most kids will get their parents' old smartphones and tablets anyways, and if any parent wanted to buy a smartphone or tablet for their kids they'd just purchase one for themselves and then hand it over. Fucking waste of time and energy. This is literally the will someone please think of the children crap.
But the 50s car kids still appeared outgoing, energetic, etc. We've known for a while that social media depresses people, so that's probably what is going on with smartphone usage.
Here's hoping this takes the same path as light drinking before driving. Now it's the childred; soon it'll be the adults too. Anyone else here spend an hour every day just waiting for people to finish their sentences across a pause to look at a smartphone for no good reason?
They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive.
Motherfuckers must be talking about the cool kids because that sure as hell wasn't me.
Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.
There are a whole lot more adults that are simply addicted to avoidant behavior. If it wasn't smartphones it would be TV. Before TV it would've been a book.
For times immemorial, extroverts have looked at introverts and decided since introverts would rather spend a large amount of time not socializing there must be something wrong with them.
No, introverts just don't want to spend time socializing. That's it. That's all. Take our phones, take our computers, we still don't want to sit around in a group of 20 people singing Kumbaya.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
The board certified anesthesiologist may be missing the point: these kids who no longer appear outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy to him may be not reclusive at all, but instead finding a wider world through their phone connection to it.
Same thing happened to teenagers who got cars in the 1950s, they used to be around the house doing homework, chores, going to bed on time, etc. and suddenly they're always gone, hanging out with new people at all hours doing god-knows-what.
Not saying that it can't go bad - freedom isn't utopia, but neither is being locked in a cell with no access to the outside world.
Stick that in your vent tube and huff it.
The big difference is that kids with cars actually go out and physically interact with real people. Helping ultimately to develop social skills and dealing with real people and situations. A phone and an internet connection provides none of those things.
Conversely, a C programmer who can't graphically 'draw' the user interface will have no idea what he's missing out on as he struggles with curses to create the code that draws the screen that his program uses for user interaction.
not understanding ratios really screws you good when you get into higher maths such as algebra and calculus
love is just extroverted narcissism
How my kids turn out doesn't depend on me providing you with statistical proof. Quit being such a nerd!
Leave it to the parents, I say. I know parents who rations "screen time" (phone as well as pc and tv.)
This so the kids will have enough time to socialize and learn motor skills. No need for a ban - because small amounts of smartphone usage is not a problem.
Where I live, people worry mostly about road traffic accidents. If there is no high speed road nearby, kids go where they want unsupervised. Not so if a motorway cuts through the community.
But what percentage of the population will actually have a use for either?
Also, it's worth considering that where algebra is concerned, most of the "basic fraction" skills are of dubious value. Yes, you use the same rules for, for example, adding two dissimilar fractions, but you're using them in an abstracted context that most student will have to relearn practically from scratch anyway. I've even tutored several people wo never "got" fractions until they mastered the algebra version of the concept - at which point the rules for "basic" fractions come for free.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
"They go from being outgoing, energetic, interested in the world and happy, to reclusive. They want to spend all their time in their room. They lose interest in outside activities."
Isn't that normal teenage behavior? I grew up long before cell phones. When I was a teen I spent most of my time in my room working on an old Apple ][+ computer.
"Politicians always tell the truth, when they're calling each other liars."
Exactly. I, as well as two of my friends, had a computer in my (their) bedroom as a kid - me as early as 11 and my friends earlier. All of us have well-paying jobs and are in fields we choose to be in (rather than just taking what we can get). Every kid is different, and parenting for your individual kid's needs is more impactful than generic approaches like this.
When we got our first computer, the first thing I did was take it apart, and then put it back together. My mom saw this and kept me stocked from then on. I did my share of vegging out, too, but grew out of that after college. My friends were the same way, too. Maybe since there were three of us that all had success, I should call it a study and publish the results claiming that every kid needs a computer in the bedroom.
It's not always addiction to avoidant behavior, either. Some of us are introverts and don't thrive off personal interactions.
Of course there's evidence of this, it just changes every couple of years. Previous candidates: Heavy metal, Dungeons and Dragons, [...] stamp collecting, trading cards, [...] Morris Dancing, [...] cave painting [...] banging rocks together. I've left out a few hundred of them just to save space.
I was the victim of Morris Dancing addiction. My basement was filled with Hurdy Gurdys and thrift shop flower Garlands. I sold my body on the streets to buy an accordion I abandoned and rejected family and friends. I was on a downward spiral that would only end with my demise. Damn those Morrisites and their fancy geegaws and velocipedes.
Then I bought a smartphone, and kicked my addiction on facebook. Type yes if you agree.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
How my kids turn out doesn't depend on me providing you with statistical proof. Quit being such a nerd!
What a perfect display of prideful ignorance. Not only a disregard for the importance of establishing causality, but actual disdain for those who do. Truly pathetic.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I would suspect that it has something to do with the fact that there are numbers that are accurately expressed as fractions that can only be approximated as decimals.
1/3 is an example of what I mean by that.
I also happen to think that for some calculations, it's easier to get a mental picture of a fraction than a decimal number. 70% is more intuitive to me than 7/10.
When fractions make sense to me, I use fractions. When decimals make sense to me, I use decimals.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
But what percentage of the population will actually have a use for either?
A significant portion of the best jobs today require algebra and calculus to complete their standard college curriculum. So most people in STEM jobs require both. I would argue they also need the knowledge and the reasoning skills built during the learning process, but even if I'm wrong about that they still need those skills to graduate college.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
they don't know about certain dangers at that age
Why don't they? We don't allow my younger kids too much freedom, but they're allowed to travel around our neighborhood (within limits) as long as we know where they're going to be. We tell them about the dangers so they know what and whom to avoid. Even the adults we trust (kinda) we tell our kids they're not to go anywhere with them unless we are asked. And our kids are excellent about asking.
Maybe you live in a super sanitized safe area compared to me.
I don't know about compared to you, but our neighborhood is old, lower-middle class, some rentals, occasional crimes. I definitely wouldn't call it a super sanitized safe area.
But the 50s car kids still appeared outgoing, energetic, etc. We've known for a while that social media depresses people, so that's probably what is going on with smartphone usage.
The kids are probably playing Candy Crush or the like rather than hanging out on social media.
Plenty of adults go through smartphone addiction, and get a little weird. Never looking up, walking in front of buses, and generally tuning out. But just like anything, especially when dealing with children, some supervision is a good thing. When going some place, sure, take the phone. Maybe an hour playing games. Otherwise limit the use, just like with computers.
Banning is ridiculous at this point.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Thank goodness this idea is proposed by a board certified anesthesiologist and not some dilettante who has no expertise on how kids should be raised.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
... that voted to legalize marijuana. Not just medininal marijuana, but any marijuana - be it medicinal or recreational.
So if this prop passes, it would be legal to snort pot, but not legal for a kid to have a smart phone?
He's a typical American; you shouldn't be surprised. Americans love to show off their ignorance and revel in it.
We've known for a while that social media depresses people
No we don't. Heavy social media use is correlated with depression. But no causal relationship has been shown.
Right, but in the US, we have a general philosophy that, while children need to be protected, adults should be able to fend for themselves.
Whether this is true or not, it is the basis of several laws (basically all of them that say you must be this old to do this thing).
Why don't they know what to be careful of??
When I was that age, growing up in Dallas, my Mom and I would go to the large malls...I'd tell her I was going to the toy store or the book store(s)...and I'd generally stay there reading and looking around for a few hours and we'd have a designated place to meet up. I certainly was smart enough NOT to do anything with a stranger, I was taught to be cautious...etc.
Are kids being raised stupid these days, or...are the parents trying to coddle and shield their kids too much and not telling them what to be on the lookout for....?
Being raised like I was, led me to being a very independent child at an early age....which served me well when it was time for me to leave home, I really had no problem going by myself into the world , moving states away to college, and having great adventures.
I love my folks...and still call where they live "home"....but I've been quite comfortable out on my own and exploring the world and I attribute it largely to having more independence at a young age than kids seem to have today.
And we didn't have cellphones or social media, etc....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I live in Colorado, and have a 2-year-old daughter. She occasionally gets to play games on my wife's iPad, but we have to moderate how much because if she spends too much time on it she gets cranky. She won't have her own smartphone until she is at least 13 (probably older).
I can certainly see where this group is coming from, but I strongly disagree that it should be made a law. Every kid is different, and every family is different. Parents need to make decisions based on what's best for their kids and their family. Even if I happen to agree with them about keeping kids away from smartphones until they are old enough to mentally handle them, I disagree that it is something that should be forced. I do not support taking away parents' choice on the matter.
If I see one of those petitioners collecting signatures to put this on the ballot, I will refuse to sign. If it makes it to the ballot, I will be voting against it.
Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.
And there is the point of politics. There has to always be a good, or a bad. How else can politicians tell us that they are protecting us.
I know the guy going for this isn't a politician but he falls into that camp that the government needs to protect us from this new fangled technology that is changing our kids brains. Once again we pull our the tried and true, let's protect the children.
Even though we have no evidence of what harm all this stuff is doing. We just don't know that changing our brains is supposed to be bad.
Save Pangaea!! Stop Continental Drift!!
When I take personality tests I fall near the midpoint on the introvert/extrovert scale, last time I took a myers-briggs I was right on the line. I understand, at least on some level, about introversion. But there are also a lot of reasons why interaction with other humans is beneficial. People can prefer introversion and there can be benefits to interacting with others anyway at the same time.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think you meant compounding factors
Why is the US obsessed with fractions?
You just see it used a lot as an example in discussions about elementary math education. I think it's just that adding fractions is the first nontrivial algorithm kids struggle with.
Most developed countries seem to treat fractions as something you teach kids to get them started, before they move on to real division. In everyday life people more often use percentages, e.g sales will be "50% off" rather than "1/2 price".
All of this is equally true in the US. We're not teaching fractions to typical teenagers.
Over 9000 parents in California say that vaccinating your kids is wrong!
Listen. Over 900 people at Jonestown believe that drinking cyanide laced kool-aid is going to be great for their future.
900 people think it's good, they can't be wrong, can they?
Since when did "a significant portion" become "a ratio"???? Ironic in a thread fragment talking about the need to know what ratios are you make one that shows how little ratios are needed beyond the fact that they exist.
That sounds impossible, have you seen how stubborn some of these parents are? Many of them actively put most of their energy into being ignorant, and will try to rationalize their position against any actual logic and information put forth, to the detriment of their kids.
It's not the government's job to be nannies, and I don't want to force my own beliefs either, but at the same time man I feel bad for some of these kids. Not particularly about cell phones but just the terrible role models that they have to overcome.
So are the kids to have no independence till the age of 13? Or is the author of the bill conversly ready to let 10 year olds out of sight for a day with no means to reach them or check where they are? If technology was that bad, we would not have all adopted it. Now it's a job of each parent to manage its use. Just because there is a cell phone in kids name does not mean they get to use it for the whole evening or install whatever apps they want.
"Officer the cell phone belongs to my dad...honest. I was just picking up the kilo of pot for him from 7-11"
Since when did "a significant portion" become "a ratio"???? Ironic in a thread fragment talking about the need to know what ratios are you make one that shows how little ratios are needed beyond the fact that they exist.
Teaching students the difference between quantitative and qualitative measurements and when each are appropriate is also important. Just because sometimes you only have qualitative measurements in no way means you never need to learn how to calculate qualitative measurements.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
An introvert doesn't askew all contact with humanity, they just chose to spend more time alone. I would never want to lose all contact with all people forever; but, if I prefer to go for a hike alone, or read a book alone, or be on my phone alone, or go kayaking in a safe location alone, that shouldn't be looked on as an abnormality.
A lot of extroverts feel like introverts are broken because they don't want to be surrounded by other people all the time. That's not true. There is "me" time and there is "with other people time". Introverts just prefer more "me" time.
No one wants to be truly alone. (or almost no one).
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
And yes, I know it's eschew not askew. Not sure why I typed that before the grammar Nazis get me. Only noticed I did that after I hit submit.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Why don't they know what to be careful of??
Because you can't teach them everything. Some things take time. You can teach them 99% of things to watch out for but you will always miss something. A child raised in the South might not know what to look out for on a frozen lake to see if it safe to walk on. A child raised in Oklahoma might not know what a rip current is. Unless you've thought to tell them, a child may not know to not touch someone who has been electrocuted.
There are a million things and a million dangers, and quite simply, you won't remember every danger to tell a child to look out for.
And even if you tell a child not to talk to strangers- you might be surprised. There was a viral video a few years back where a news team (with parent's permission) did an experiment on walking up to young children (to whom they were strangers) and start talking to them.
Every single parent said "my child would never talk or go off with a stranger". Almost every single one did start talking to the "stranger". And the majority did start to walk off with the "stranger".
I think in many cases parents think their children are smarter than they really are- or more likely to trust their danger instincts than the really do. You can teach your kids to avoid strangers- but then when you're not around they might forget your advice.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
A competent C programmer wouldn't use curses while programming UI interaction, although he might be cursing the library APIs.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
This. Before computers it was television. Before television it was something else...
http://www.macleans.ca/society/technology/boo-a-brief-history-of-technology-scares/
They probably thought a "stranger" was some creepy looking character. The people they went with were normal-looking and friendly.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The important difference here is that one is a telephonic communications device and one is a mobile surveillance, data collection, and location tracking platform.
FTFY.
I can still remember the millions of children that simply disappeared before the advent of cell phones. It was a huge tragedy.
Have gnu, will travel.
People like that are bad at root cause analysis. Just as stupid as trying to ban texting and driving. Why not look at _why_ these behaviors come about? Hint: for the latter, it typically happens when the car stops for any period of time between its origin and its destination. Consider that, from an engineering standpoint, this is never okay; at grade intersections of any kind, stop lights, stop signs - those are your real distractions. To get bored and reach for the nearest entertainment is just human nature.
Making the retailers track and then fining them etc is just too much BS to ladle onto the merchants.
Simply make it easy for the parents to return the phone for a full refund.
The kid has the phone for a couple weeks and the parents return it, for a full refund.
The merchant loses money, they stop selling them to minors.
Lessons like this were a part of regular public Elementary school in the 1980's. Then "No Child Left Behind" put pressure on schools to raise test scores or face reductions in funding. The schools responded by cutting out all of the special classes and focused on training for the test above all else. That's all kids do nowadays is train for the test, train for test, over and over. Gone are the days of using pizza to learn fractions and coins to learn decimals.
You sound like a bigot.
It's not simply the US, the UK also places high importance on fractions as it has been proven that regardless of income level, understanding fractions is key to a child's success later in life. http://home.isr.umich.edu/releases/fractions-are-the-key-to-math-success-new-study-shows/
All who drank poison did so under duress, and more than a third of victims (304) were minors. Citations at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Massive introvert here. Adopted Colorado as my home. Couldn't be more proud we're even suggesting this.
Phones aren't great for ANYONE - much less kids. Even introverts become worthless sacks staring at phones all day. Introvert yourself into all the other constructive crap we normally do.
Exactly. I, as well as two of my friends, had a computer in my (their) bedroom as a kid -
Was this pre-internet?
There are lots of people who seem eager to ban any teenage activity that doesn't involve sex or drugs.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
If you checked, you'd also find that anti-depressive drug use is correlated with depression. Social media use might be self-medication.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I'm fine with banning cell phones that emit significant ionizing radiation, but I doubt any do unless carried as part of a Fukushima cleanup or dropped into a reactor waste pool or something like that. If you want to get me to agree with restrictions on non-ionizing radiation, you can bloody well come up with solid proof of harm.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
> Are there adults that are addicted to their smartphones? Most definitely.
Maybe those adults should have waited until they were over 13 to use a smartphone. Oh wait, they did?
Not really sure how having an age barrier is going to fix that one then.
All cell phones serve as tracking devices.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Your tripe response appears to imply you believe I was somehow saying it would prevent such things from happening. Save everyone the time and read the entire post before replying.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I can still remember the millions of children that simply disappeared before the advent of cell phones. It was a huge tragedy.
I used to get so lost as a child before my internal compass developed on my thirteenth birthday. It was horrible.
Just another second banana
eschew, not askew
It's extroverts with their bizarre dependency on being part of the herd for their sense of identity who are broken.
...and this "group" will be the first one to get a visit from the big men in the white coats.
My tripe response? This has nothing at all to do with stomach lining.
And I did read your entire response. The parent post was asking if there was evidence it was bad for kids. The nuance was the question wanted information on if it was bad for kids but not for adults. All you did was point out something that happens regardless of age, so your response was useless in that regard.
Which I pointed out with a trite response.
In 1993 in Kassel Germany, kids from Waldorf school were loud and annoying as hell.
Don't blame the parents. Parents who try to do what you say (let their kids roam around unsupervised) are derided as "free range parents" and get arrested by the cops, and their kids seized by CPS due to "negligence".
Not accusing you, but they also give people every excuse to be lazy parents who are un-involved and don't really know what their kids are up to or how they treat the neighborhood.
Cheap storage VM.
True, I've always restricted my kids computer and internet usage. Mostly an honor system, but we step in when we notice things. Once the school started requiring them to have Ipads, it became much more difficult. I have the ability to use technical means to restrict things, but it's still difficult.
Whatever their doing, it's ALWAYS for school, or so they say. I have to intercede and use Apple's tools to see what's really going on. Some of this stuff is practically impossible without another Apple ecosystem device.
Cheap storage VM.
Of course there's evidence of this, it just changes every couple of years.
Disney's Carousel of Progress pretty much nailed this, and I'd venture a guess most people watching it don't even realize it. In the "turn of the century" scene, the teenage boy is looking at a risqué photograph on a stereoscope. In the 1940s scene, the teenage daughter is gossiping with her friend on the telephone.
There was this article I recall reading where this family decided any post-80s technology was banned from their home. Thing is, the 80s had VHS (and a rental store in almost every strip mall), Walkmans, pocket TVs, handheld gaming devices (and the first Gameboy, in '89), and... cell phones (granted, they were huge and didn't do anything other than make extremely costly phone calls). It was also pretty likely in the pre-Internet era that at least one of your friends would have access to filthy magazines (Playboy has been around since the '50s!).
So yeah, it's just bad parents who just remember growing up without smartphones - not the hours spent playing Nintendo, reading comics, watching VHS tapes, sitting in the corner listing to their Walkman, etc.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
As an introvert myself, it's the people who go stir crazy if they don't have other people around them that seem broken to me. If you're not okay being alone by yourself for a reasonable amount of time, you've got something wrong with you. Likewise, if you can't stand to be around other people for a reasonable amount of time, you've probably got a social anxiety disorder, not just introversion. A healthy person is fine with other people or by themselves.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
I am, after all, an anestheiologist.
AKA the guy in surgical scrubs you always see smoking outside the hospital.
Board certified, no less.
Oberlin??? Yeah, you lost me there.. That's pretty much just a whinny liberal factory that teaches people how to illegal hold people and cause riots.
I checked the website of the Waldorf schools in my (US) state. Preschool is $17K/yr, K-8 is $23K/yr, 9-12 is $29K/yr. There is some "tuition help" listed, but only up to 50% off for those who qualify. These schools are in some of the most affluent areas of my state, with real estate prices regularly flirting with $1M+ for pretty "normal" houses. They also have some of the best public schools in the state. So yeah, at least in my area, anyone who attends Waldorf school is going to be self-selected as someone who can not only afford to live in the most expensive towns but above that has enough income to spend ~$25K (or n*$25k/yr if there are siblings) to send their kids to school. I'm willing to bet these kids would be "successful" no matter what, since their family has access to wealth and resources that aren't available to quite literally the other 99% of society.
Right! And then ban playing cards, and board games, and then once you've taken everything else away you'll have to ban genitals
Sounds like someone has an in with the Religious Right. Can you tell what else they're planning?
millions of children that simply disappeared
Almost as bad as when the IRS started requiring social Security numbers for children declared as dependents.
"Based entirely on my own opinion AND LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE, i want to limit what your kids can have."
How about arbitrarily restricting the age at which you can own any electronic gadgets? is it just phones? not gameboys? why not put a ceiling on it? older than 60? not allowed to buy a smart phone.
The problem is defining what a "smart phone" is. I'm typing this response on my "smart typewriter." If it passes, there will probably be a list. On that list will be the higher-dollar phones because to many regular consumers, that makes sense but would really be a marketing tactic. Kids want what they can't have, so let's make sure they want the expensive ones. The government could use the FCC to define what a smart phone is; so far, they seem to recognize Andriod, iOS, Blackberry, and Windows Phone. Can you imagine a "phone dealer" on street corners? Reminds me of how the Soviets used to ban Western stuff. I do find it a little too ironic that Slashdot has a poll on what smart phones should be called and then this issue shows up. Lets face it, the concept of a "smart phone" never really had anything to do with the phone, but making people feel like what they had was "dumb," and kids are going to feel dumb for not owning one. Manufacturers utilize the Summer season for kids to miss school friends, then return to school in the Fall to see all the new cell phones, and then comes the begging for a smart phone at a birthday or Christmas; most birthdays are in August and god help anyone with multiple kids.
You mean Muslims, the religion defended by the Leftist Progressives.
Why didn't you get your kids phones when they were 7? I started programming TI calculators when I was 5.
What does his profession have to do with his activism? I don't necessarily disagree with him: kids should be closely monitored when using digital devices. Making that behavior illegal won't help anything, though.
More that just because lots of people are doing it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Residential internet access (dial-up) came a few years later. I'd stay up late nights and do multiplayer games over modem connection (starting at 2400 baud rate).
What would you call someone who doesn't mind social situations with friends, but a busy store or mall can get them from 0 to 100 on the anger/frustration scale? We're talking just moving from place to place and the minor inconveniences that happen, like people walking too slow, or in your way, etc.
As someone who's struggled with that myself, I'd still say that it's some kind of unhealthy, likely an anxiety condition of one sort or another.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
It's actually put quite simply:
"Mom, can I go see if Joe can play?"
"Yes. You can go and play at Joe's house. If he's not home or can't play, come home. Don't do anything else. Now repeat what I said to you."
It's different from:
"Mom, can I go roam around the neighborhood?"
"No."
Context means a lot. By the same token, we don't let out kids go to playgrounds without an adult. We're selective about what to give them independence with, but we do give them some independence because it's important.
You mean Muslims, the religion defended by the Leftist Progressives.
It doesn't matter which religious reich seizes the reins of power, it is always shit for everyone else, and even for their own followers who are not sufficiently pious or zealous. That's why you can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This belongs as a decision the parents should make. This is not something a nanny state should be invading on. This legislation is entirely unnecessary, and will likely be used for other purposes, just like what you mentioned.
a board certified anesthesiologist who says children change when they get a cellphone
So an M.D. has an opinion on education, socialization, and behavior? Great, but he gets the same weight as my mechanic and the pool guy.
If we can get a Psy.D. to agree, then maybe I'll listen. Or better yet, make it a consensus of the field that actually studies child development. Hint: not anesthesiology.
It's great that he cares about kids. But he really, really needs to prove he's right if he wants to make it a law.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
If anything extroverts are broken for having dependency issues.
What does having wealth have to do with being intelligent? Intelligence is proven to be at least 75% genetic, the rest is training and effort.
Cell phones are bad for a parent's pocketbook when the kid isn't responsible enough to keep it from getting lost when they take it somewhere.
It's cheaper in the long run to just wait until they are old enough that they are earning their own money to buy their own phone and pay for a young person's account themselves.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Good by Morris Dancing, hello Music with Rocks In...
It's a bit funny to me. 70% is short hand for writing 70/100 and so I fail to see much of a difference between 70/100 and 7/10.
I would call that agoraphobia, the extreme conclusion of which is illustrated in the movie where Sigourney Weaver is stalked by a copycat murderer. Just leaving her room to go into the residential building's corridor on the nth floor makes her sweat and panic in some mix of vertigo and hallucination.
Eh, I'm finding myself clever for comparing it to vertigo although in my language that means the fear of heights. Of course there's a natural and obvious reason to fear great heights you're in a danger of falling into.
Such a person would need to desensitize him or herself.
Perhaps go to a concert, with a few (or one) friends. Now that's a funny situation, since there's a hundred people or more like in the mall but it's a structured event, people are focused on the bands playing stuff and almost everyone is happy to be there. So I believe it's a rather favorable way to interact with a crowd.
Although, getting a beer may be a messy crowd moment, what with a couple dozens crowding at the bar and you making no progress whatsoever but you have options : go it alone, go with the friend, have the friend fetch two beers one for you and one for the friend.
Tho by all means don't become a drunkard if you don't want to.
au contraire mon frere, it had to be your stomach lining talking, no brain actually thinks like that.
His statement seems correct to me.
He is saying that how his children turn out has no correlation with whether he provides someone statistical proof or not.
Do you have a different comprehension of his words?
A lot of extroverts feel like introverts are broken because they don't want to be surrounded by other people all the time.
Also, there's a LOT more extroverts out there, so it's easy for them to discriminate against introverts and get away with it. It's easy to see yourself as not broken when you're the moral majority.
Having grown up in the 80's, my teachers thought I was broken and regularly punished me for it, let alone tried to fix me. Thankfully, my parents understood I was an introvert, and despite considerable pressure from the school, they refused to put me on drugs.
"eschew", not "askew" ... :D
secondly, "alone" does not equal "lonely" - that's the more common misconception held by criticising "extroverts", whom I prefer to call the "terminally fatuous and superficial"
and none of those things require a smartphone. A regular old stupid phone would work just fine.
No argument. But again, we're talking about a small minority of the *total* jobs out there.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
>having friends in their neighborhoods, with "kill the man with the ball" games breaking out, etc. and doing other fun outdoor activies.
it was called "smear the queer" where i lived and unfortunately, i was usually the queer.
i don't think we need to bring that back.
>An introvert doesn't askew all contact with humanity
>askew
eschew
>inb4 bless you!
Smart-Phones have/do change us. I'm not sure its even worth talking about good or bad as this is progress. Without an EMP from the sun and a plague afterwords, we would rebuild to this moment, and "move forward". Reality is that we, as a species, are becoming very intertwined with these devices. It seems to me its inevitable. Bringing awareness to everyone's phone use is important. Self-Awareness campaign should be first. Clearly this is something that has touched a nerve, clearly people are seeing fallout, wondering and somewhat nervous as we don't know the answers. Law's I'm not excited about, but the awareness this father has brought, which no other outlet seems to have rung the bell as loudly, is great. Let's get all of this on the table and take control of the smart-phones. Apple and the rest have basically hacked our minds through neurosciences. Its time to check and balance that. They've had 10 years using us as guinea pigs. We see there is good and bad, at what point do we bark back and say... "THIS is enough". So while my kid very well may get a phone with some access at some age, that should be up to my bad parenting to decide. My parents screwed me up, its my turn to have fun, and I don't want someone else's rules. I do understand the sentiment that if my kid has a phone and his doesn't that he could feel bad for his kids, but that's life and that is where verbal communication and talking come in... "hey johnny, when you all plan that on snapchat, can you text me the time/place, 'cuz my dad won't let me have snapchat." We don't need a study to tell us its affecting us all differently, with general overlapping unions of generally "bad behaviour" we've all exhibited at times. What we do need is some introspection as to where this is taking us, cuz the ride is far from over and there is no getting off this train.
Does their phone include data? If so, you can be assured that the kids are using Facebook and other sites, by claiming to be age 16. Children need to play, ride bycycles, do sports etc. At meal time are they texting. I believe that the cellphone dehumanitizes kids. Some countries allow cellphones that can only dial home. Do preteens need more?
Don't these poor children have someone in their lives to make these sorts of decisions?
Is another nanny-law really needed?
I was usually the queer getting smeared too, and it taught me to stay on my feet regardless of pain.
That skill 30 years later helped greatly in a mugging incident.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
When I discovered rock and punk music I became reclusive and lost interest in outside activities. Maybe this guy is actually describing adolescence.
My kids got phones when they were 8.
In fact, we don't let them leave home without their phones.
8? at home alone? Dude in this state they call that child abuse. You never leave an 8 year old at home alone.
When kids hit age 13 they become teenagers (shocker). We all know what the boys are doing reclusively. And the girls seem to hate everyone but other girls of the same age. So yeah, let's blame the smart phones for why no girls talked to you when you were 13. Just sayin, that probably helped you become a doctor...
I see the downside here. It's that children become smothered by their parents constantly monitoring them. Where's the building of trust and their growth in confidence in their own abilities to solve their problem situations? Instead, I can be a distant parent through technology and my kids can learn to depend on technology to get them out of or through situations they can't handle. A generation of wussy dependents unable to learn for themselves or allow natural selection to run its course.
I say we ban all mobile phones and go back to the good old pay phone days! Mobile phones are really just trackers disguised as entertainment and communications devices for Big Brother's "kids" anyway.
You have to appreciate your parents for avoiding stupid medical advice. Screw that school.
I'm sure you meant eschew.... One introvert to another.
I would tend to agree with this.
Yet, not all parents take responsibility like you apparently do.
I am, however, pro-education on living with contemporary technology and contemporary society - even for parents.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
I'm an introvert, but I have sen how smartphones changed kids in my family both introverts and extroverts into mindless pay2win game payers and youtube addicts when they used to go outside and find something to do just as I used to when I would get bored with my console games as I only had a few of them and if I wanted more I would have to find a way to pay for them. Look around residential areas this summer, you notice something, a distinct lack of kids outside. And what they're learning online is far more dangerous than what we did as kids, they're watching idiots that don't have a clue mix up caustic or extremely flammable chemicals with no safety protocols and nearly killing themselves*. At least when I was a kid we learned from parents how not to blow our hands off with fireworks.
*Seen a video of these kids that normally do junkfood tasting videos mixing household chemicals that released what I assume was a cloud of chlorine gas in an exothermic reaction in a soda bottle, then there was the grant thompson king of idiots launching butane and coke fueled rockets from his hand, nearly lighting himself on fire multiple times. Bill Nye these morons are not.