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The iPhone Is Guaranteed To Last Only One Year, Apple Argues In Court (vice.com)
Reader Jason Koebler writes: Last month, Greg Joswiak, Apple's VP of iOS, iPad, and iPhone Marketing, told Buzzfeed that iPhones are "the highest quality and most durable devices. We do this because it's better for the customer, for the iPhone, and for the planet."
But in a class-action court case over the widespread premature failure of tens of thousands of iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus devices, Apple argues that the company cannot guarantee any iPhone for more than a year. In a motion to dismiss, Apple argued that "to hold Apple's Limited Warranty substantively unconscionable simply because Plaintiffs expect their iPhones to last the length of their cellular service contracts 'would place a burden on [Apple] for which it did not contract.'"
But in a class-action court case over the widespread premature failure of tens of thousands of iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus devices, Apple argues that the company cannot guarantee any iPhone for more than a year. In a motion to dismiss, Apple argued that "to hold Apple's Limited Warranty substantively unconscionable simply because Plaintiffs expect their iPhones to last the length of their cellular service contracts 'would place a burden on [Apple] for which it did not contract.'"
"Guaranteed to last only" =/= "Only guaranteed to last"
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
The summary makes a bold claim and then gives the legal nuance which was "just because someone sold you our phone with an X year contract doesn't mean we give you an automatic X year warranty." Suddenly most people look at the actual statement and say "well, yeah, of course they're right about that" and move on.
Jason Koebler is the author of the article, which is true for all his submissions..... which makes him a spammer.
When you buy an iPhone, as I understand it, the warranty is for one year, unless you buy extensions. So why would anyone expect the warranty to be longer than one year (assuming one did not buy any warranty extensions)? To me it looks more like the problem of Apple corporation has a lot of money, so let's try this approach to a lawsuit and see how much money we can get out of Apple.
Apple argues that the company cannot guarantee any iPhone for more than a year.
I guess they should pull out of the EU then seeing how they are unable to meet the minimum legal required guarantee. Or does the QC department bin the devices and send the good ones to the EU and the crappy ones to the USA where consumers are used to being screwed over and not have any recourse other than costly legal battles or lawyer enriching class actions which may net them a $15 discount coupon?
This is certainly a fight that Apple and others would love to win. To now say their devices are only good for one year due to "issue X", creates a steep curve into devices that always shut down just after 1 year. If in fact this were to go through, it wouldn't be far fetched to see companies specifically put in a 1 year "kill switch" so that there was no chance that anyone didn't "upgrade" and pay the fee. At a minimum, that could open up companies from having to deal with patching anything older than a year.
Its been fairly clear across all industries that companies want you to use only their brand new equipment, nothing second hand. Don't fix your stuff or we'll glue it in place if you try. This is another shot being fired at consumers. It seems like owning things is going to be the new taboo.
--
"Laws? We make the laws, its called a contract. Now arbitrate!". - Them
and it's guaranteed to last 2 years (because that's how long it will be warrantied for).
Apple gives us a two year warranty and if there is a design or manufacturing defect then it is around 6 years.
"The only good phone is a land line and the phone should be made out of Bakelite!"
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
My only question is, does Apple sell different devices in the US and Europe? Strangely, Apple customers in the EU enjoy a 2 years warranty.
I've bought practically every version of the Iphone that has been released, so I'm obviously an Iphone fan, but I can see how people might get a bit upset over this. The part I believe Apple failed is in its agreement with cellular phone companies, in which it plays the "well, we didn't say it, so you have to blame them" game. Apple should have made it a part of their contract with cellular phone companies that they reveal IN THEIR contracts with customers that the Iphone is only guaranteed to work for a year, especially when these companies contract payment plans that last over a year.
Sarbonn's blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/blog
Lazy journalism, lazy putting it up onto Slashdot's news of the day...
You and your new fangled Bakelite!
My phone is made out of wood! (Ok, so it has some bakelite parts, but you can't expect to use that for the whole phone!)
As someone who designs electronics, if you had to design it so it couldn't possibly fail in 2 years it would be so prohibitively expensive no one would buy it.
Warranties are meant to catch the outliers, and they are a liability. Of course they are going to limit it. Yeah it sucks if it dies at one year and one day, but there a lot of other conditions that Apple did not force that make that suck more. Sincerely, an android user.
My androids have all broken at about 3 years-- finally succumbing to drops and in one case a worn out usb port.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
There are more appropriate apple articles to take your "mine works fine".
If you can jump across time, you can put it among the other 9000 identical posts in the past. It will be pointless to do so in a different timeline, but it's equally pointless here anyway.
You and your new fangled Bakelite!
My phone is made out of wood! (Ok, so it has some bakelite parts, but you can't expect to use that for the whole phone!)
My phone predates trees. It's essentially two rocks joined together by strands of algae string.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Joe can also buy a used replacement (he is replacing a used phone with a used phone);
Price of the used phone will only be slightly more the the "insurance" would have been with the original phone. After a couple of phones (or other electronics, Joe will come out ahead by not purchasing the insurance).
As much as I'm not a fan of the carriers or manufacturers, I don't see the issue here. All the carriers and most manufacturers offer extended warranties (not a good deal, but protect you against surprise expenses).
I guess they could add the warranty cost into the original price or manufacturers could compete on length of warranties. (Some auto manufacturers compete by offering longer warranties, and with SSD you can buy drives with 1, 3 or 5 year warranties at different prices.)
Just heard a joke recently:
Q: How do you milk sheep?
A: Release a new iPhone and charge £1000 for it.
* - My apology to apple fans
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
UK law disagrees.
https://www.apple.com/uk/legal...
love the taste, hate the texture
Warranties are pretty pointless, in my opinion, because the terms are so short. If a device only lasts the term of the warranty, then it's disposable and not worth hundreds of dollars -- but almost all devices aren't as terrible as that. So I ignore warranties.
good thing the EU has 2 year warranty by law in usa you need to buy applecare
How much extra did you spend on the 'case' that you keep it in? About half as much as a year's warranty?
Typical PR to try to make the public think it's about something else. The specific case is about the touch screen having a very high failure rate, Apple knowing about it, and not telling customers about the problem.
It has been known in the iPhone repair community that these specific iPhone models have a factory problem known as "touch IC disease" that makes them prematurely fail way faster than other models. It's basically a soldering issue on a component that's in a sensitive place (that heats too much), which ends up losing contact and stop working.
Apple is just trying to deflect the problem here by saying that the company cannot be expected to keep warranties over their pre-stipulated time, without recognizing the issue in itself.
https://ifixit.org/blog/8309/i...
But yes, Apple is a corporation like any other, and people should just realize that. They have used the exact same strategy for past problems, at least initially, some very well known like antennagate, bendgate, Apple Maps, Purple Haze, poor iCloud security practices, and others.
And yeah, that whole thing about a robot disassembling and iPhone because Apple is an environment friendly company that cares about eWaste? That's just bullshit and marketing propaganda. Having a robot arm that quickly disassembles iPhones means nothing when your company is lobbying against stuff like Right to Repair Bill. And of course it doesn't help when the company fails to recognize problems like the one on this case, telling costumers that they have no responsibility for a design failure that will ultimately land a whole bunch of those iPhone 6 and 6 Plus on the garbage, or on repair places they don't support nor care for.
6 Plus checking in. It's been by far the best phone I've owned. I got it at launch, and it'll be 3 this year with no signs of needing to be replaced.
Mine just started suffering from touch disease. Before that, it's been great. Going to replace it with a 7 Plus. The 8 Plus doesn't offer enough compelling differences from the 7 Plus. I don't care about wireless charging or a slightly faster processor. The difference in the camera is enough to choose the 7 Plus over the 6 Plus for me.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Hey, when the $1000 Applephone fails at 12-1/2 months, the eager Apple Customer will show up at the Apple Store to get another. They'll of course 'recycle' their worthless broken old Applephone, which Apple will of course put the $6 replacement part into to resell it as a reconditioned phone for $700. Eager customer goes home with their new phone that they owe another $1000 on.
It's just the cost of being an Apple customer. Many are proud to pay the price.
The suit is regarding a specific defect present only in 6 and 6s models where the touch screen controller chips become desoldered. It affects the logic board, which is why it's not repairable and it happens from repeated slight flexing of the phone, such as being in a tight pants pocket. Apple offers a refurbished phone for $150 to replace the damaged one in this case, they are not legally required to do this. Overall iPhones don't have a hardware reliability issue, they took a bit of a hit in the last year but are comprable to android phones. Software wise they see frequent updates and have good security compared to android phones.
Because in general it is not the government's business to interfere with private agreements. If you and I agree to something, we should not need the government's permission.
Sir, you have this backwards. Government regulations are not granting permission, they are there to set a process that ensures everyone's rights are protected during the negotiation process, and to enforce penalties on those that break their contracts.
Without regulations, why should a billionaire CEO of a multi-national company give a shit what *you*, sabri, think about their policies and contracts? They can tell you anything you want to hear and then say "nevermind" after they've gotten your money. And what are you going to do as an individual?
Our government is of the people, for the people, by the people, because together we are strong and can protect ourselves and our rights. Individually we are weak, particularly in the face of a strong business adversary.
In this case, it does not [severely disadvantages them]. The system works as designed and the courts are now going to determine whether or not Apple's point of view (that an iPhone cannot be guaranteed to work after 1 year) is reasonable or not. This is based on general principles of reasonableness, not on a codified mandate for consumer warranties.
Our court system is effectively broken for most Americans. Have you been to court? I have. It's a lot of legal fees, meeting with lawyers, filing paperwork, waiting months for a court case, only to have the decision appealed by a defendant with way more money and time than you. It is extremely delayed justice, if you get it at all. The working and middle classes are typically hugely disadvantaged in court. We could fix it by requiring speedy trials, hiring more judges and public defenders, and other tweaks, but that would require a more expensive court system and likely higher taxes, which many completely flip their shit when they hear the word "taxes" so we've not been able to have constructive discussion on the topic.
We don't need the government to create laws that "protect" us, because those laws will have side effects. Don't believe me? Let me give you one example. It's somewhat off topic and may start a flame war, but that is not my intention. In my home country, the unions have been successful in creating very strong labor protection laws. In short, once you hire someone on a permanent contract, it becomes very difficult to fire them. That resulted in employers being careful in giving permanent contracts, and opting for temporary contracts which kept getting extended. Then the government created new laws to prevent that from happening, by mandating a permanent contract after three extensions. And guess what? Do you think more people got permanent contracts? No. "Disposable" workers that are easily replaced where replaced after three contracts. In California, where I live, there is the principle of at-will employment. This means (explaining for non-US person), that I can get hired and fired at any time. And you know what: that flexibility causes businesses to hire without giving it a second thought. No bullshit with temporary contracts needed, because everything is flexible. That is the net result of government interference, no matter how well these laws are meant.
It would be nice if we directed our ire at sociopathic executives of multi-national corporations that have no allegience to country or the people, rather than indirectly defending them when we attack government regulations and actions. No level of government did any of this to you; there is no law that says "no one should ever hire sabri for a permanent position". Corporations decided to do this because they are sociopaths, obsessed with forever increasing their profits regardless the consequences to people, the country, the economy, or the planet. Please note, I am in no way saying they shouldn't be profitable or well compensated for their work. Bei
I get that this is a non-issue to many, and I actually agree with Apple insofar as they sold the device to the carrier etc. with an explicit one year warranty.I just also see how people feel there is a jarring disconnect between contract time and warranty time, and wanted to feed some thoughts to that end.
I like the idea of vendors competing based on warranty (and yes you'd start seeing the same item at different price points based on the warranty).
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
"The only good phone is a land line and the phone should be made out of Bakelite!"
Even landline phones have been made of ABS, not Bakelite, since the 1950s, at least.
Speaking for myself, about $40 for the case protecting my iPhone 6+. The case will protect it far longer than the period of any warranty offered for that price. I accidentally dropped it in the stairwell of a parkade once... where it tumbled down a flight and a half of concrete stairs before coming to rest on a landing, and the case protected my phone just fine.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
was for the built in support for the next generation Cochlear Nucleus 7. It's disappointing that there isn't any love or support for Androids, however, I get that there are just too many variables with all the different models and system versions that comes with Androids. However, I'm not willing to pay so much money for a phone that Apple claims is only guaranteed for an year, unless I get the extended warranty. Needing to spend $10k (estimated) just to move up to a Nucleus 7 setup and then 600+ for an iPhone, which may only work for an year? I'm not made of money. My insurance company may help with the CI upgrade, but I'm on the hook for the rest.
There is such a thing as an implied warranty in the USA. Basically a contract between the buyer and the seller (not the manufacturer). This can be up to four years.
So year, Apple shouldn't be involved in providing a limited warranty past 1 year, unless of course they are the retailer in which case the implied warranty comes into play.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/a...
It's not Apple's 1-Year guarantee that's unconscionable;
Its the CARRIERS providing an early termination fee for 2 years on hardware not even warranted to last 2 years.
Meanwhile I've had a European Apple drone try to convince me that my device wasn't covered, because the sales-slip said "Apple Ireland"
If they persist, threaten them to contact your local consumer rights association.
Or directly do so, specially if you're in country with strong such groups (Germany and Switzerland come as an example).
Apple has no legal standing on these claims.
Consumer right groups have lawyers who can sue them for such violations of law.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Come to socialist Europe, here the minimum warrenty is 2 years. I actually got a brand new iPhone SE recently, two months short of the 2 year period, when my old one failed.
But hey, we're just communists over here, with healthcare and proper laws. Don't get any ideas. ;-)
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I warrantied my LED panels for five fucking years. LEDs are KNOWN to degrade with use. Computer electronics should not degrade within a year. If you can't offer a better warranty on a non-degrading product than I can on a degrading product, you're simply utter shit.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
$1,000 for a phone! ROTFLMFAO!
As an European I`m so sorry for Apple to have to comply with the socialist UK, https://www.apple.com/uk/legal... or communist Australia https://www.apple.com/au/legal..., EU minimal is 2 years, truly pissed with `government to create laws that "protect" us.` these socialist horrible terms, let`s keep and defend Corporation profits awesome, because they only wan`t the best for the suckers... consumers!!!
It`s so interesting to read comment`s of people defending the liberty for corporations, Apple doesn't care about the consumers, and they have to give different warranties, depending on the legislation of the country, and still don`t lose money.
i`m really curious Americans what append to LINCOLN’S “We here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”, why are you, the american people, so scared off the "government of the people" making laws that protect you and your rights from cooperation's?
The new I phone is around 1000 bucks. I would wish people would wake up to realize that after deregulating phone companies you could buy a telephone for your house at walmart for 9.95. I know people are going to argue that house phone cannot do all the things that a portable phone can do. But I see so many people addicted to these phones like crack addicts. It's really sad. And with the huge market for these devices the price of these devices should be going down instead of up. The quality for all these devices is plus or minus good. Some of you are going to buy the new Apple phones and find out 2 days after warranty it dies and /or you drop it and find out Apple will sell you a new one to replace it, but will price repairing the one you have is going to be so expensive that buying a replacement phone will look good to you. I'm sure they are also making it harder for third party repair people to fix Apple products. Wisdom dictates to buy the phone for your needs, not to see if you can put a dinosaur in a picture or movie you took. Also if it can be repaired. I know will not get through to some people but a bad deal on a phone or contract to buy a phone is still a bad deal.
Probably not the wisest thing to admit, but I opt out of paying for a multi-year warranty if I thing the manufacturer produces a product of sufficient quality that the 1 year warranty is immaterial. Apple has been good with product repairs and such. Maybe not the best, but good no the less. An automobile I might be less inclined to opt out of an extended warranty on. Extremely high price of ownership, lots of moving parts, plenty of opportunities for failure, and I'm not exactly a mechanic either.
Maine's implied warranty law says four years. I don't know whether anyone has successfully used that against Apple, though.
Good imagination, but sticking closer to reality will make you more believable.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Yes, but data is also not information.