IBM Now Has More Employees In India Than In the US (newsindiatimes.com)

Perhaps the government and corps... by Viol8 · 2017-09-28 22:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

.... got fed up being put through to some idiot in Bangalore who couldn't solve his own shoelaces whenever there was an issue who then had to escalate it 3 levels up before there was even a satisfactory response, never mind a solution. Of course IBM arn't the only ones guilty of this. You'd think companies would have started to realise now that outsourcing isn't always the solution to their problems, sometimes it IS the problem.

Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by thesupraman · 2017-09-28 22:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Ah... you seem to be miss-informed about IBM these days.
Once upon a time that would have been true, these days IBM specialises in not even delivering a solution in the first place, and still somehow keeping a bit pile of the money involved.
Then they let things cool off for a year or so, and have another dig at the gravy trough.
The usual formula seems to be that a project that could be done for $x by getting local companies to quite it is instead quietly contracted through a process only involving several of the 'big names' for $x*100, and then IBM is given the contract for 5 to 10 times that figure, and bollocks it up so badly it never ever works.
I think we call it progress and open government?
IBMs primary skill is a small group of nice suits who talk a very good talk and present a very good presentation, and then walk away never to be seen near that project every again.
Oh, and the fact that still, no one ever gets fires for buying IBM.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by sittingnut · 2017-09-28 22:18 · Score: 1

You'd think companies would have started to realise now that outsourcing isn't always the solution to their problems, sometimes it IS the problem.
err.. in reality, companies demonstrate by their actions they have come to the opposite conclusion; outsourcing is the solution.
face reality, not wishful fantasy.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by geekmux · 2017-09-28 22:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

.... got fed up being put through to some idiot in Bangalore who couldn't solve his own shoelaces whenever there was an issue who then had to escalate it 3 levels up before there was even a satisfactory response, never mind a solution. Of course IBM arn't the only ones guilty of this. You'd think companies would have started to realise now that outsourcing isn't always the solution to their problems, sometimes it IS the problem.
You really think the person who's getting a fat bonus every quarter really gives a shit about what "companies" think?
Once again, pure unadulterated greed stands out. The only thing that matters is their benefit from managing a number at the bottom of a page, no matter what that takes. Banking executives have certainly proven unethical and even illegal activities are worth the effort and risk.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-09-28 22:28 · Score: 1

err.. in reality, companies demonstrate by their actions they have come to the opposite conclusion; outsourcing is the solution.
This is not "outsourcing". The Indians working for IBM are employees.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-09-28 22:33 · Score: 2, Troll

Banking executives have certainly proven unethical and even illegal activities are worth the effort and risk.
Maybe I am missing your point in making this comparison, but are you implying that hiring brown people instead of white people is unethical? Please explain.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:49 · Score: 0

It is no coincidence that they are have declining relevance and revenue, while also having half their workforce in India.
Technological innovation happens primarily in the western world, where people are encouraged to think differently and break taboo, instead of executed for it.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:59 · Score: 0

No one ever gets fired for hiring IBM - ever hear of the Queensland Heath Department salary issue?
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:13 · Score: 0, Interesting

Shanghai Bill's hatred of whites is well known in his SJW history. Please ignore his comment, otherwise you reply and he's going to get "triggered".
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by 110010001000 · 2017-09-28 23:24 · Score: 1

Posting fake reviews to Amazon is unethical. I guess you just wouldn't understand.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:45 · Score: 1

He also apparently has a wife that is trying to serve him divorce papers. She posts on here sometimes.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by hord · 2017-09-28 23:46 · Score: 1

They were only hired to fill contract positions for outsourced solutions. You are paying IBM to manage a labor pool remotely. With interest and fees.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-28 23:47 · Score: 0

You'd think companies would have started to realise now that outsourcing isn't always the solution to their problems, sometimes it IS the problem.
Corporations have the same problem as liberals. They want to do business but don't want to pay the cost of doing business. They want it for free or as close as they can possibly get to it.

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We'll make great pets
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:13 · Score: 0

Why don't you die in a fire?
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Mordaximus · 2017-09-29 00:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Ah... you seem to be miss-informed about IBM these days.
Once upon a time that would have been true, these days IBM specialises in not even delivering a solution in the first place, and still somehow keeping a bit pile of the money involved.
Then they let things cool off for a year or so, and have another dig at the gravy trough.
The usual formula seems to be that a project that could be done for $x by getting local companies to quite it is instead quietly contracted through a process only involving several of the 'big names' for $x*100, and then IBM is given the contract for 5 to 10 times that figure, and bollocks it up so badly it never ever works.
I think we call it progress and open government?
IBMs primary skill is a small group of nice suits who talk a very good talk and present a very good presentation, and then walk away never to be seen near that project every again.
Oh, and the fact that still, no one ever gets fires for buying IBM.
Case in point: The Phoenix payroll system the Canadian Government wasted millions upon millions on. Not just on the non-functional system itself, but on major staffing needed to manually process payroll so employees could actually get paid.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by gtall · 2017-09-29 00:24 · Score: 1

No, it is the Conservatives who won't pay the cost of doing business. Pay some taxes, pay some workers...all grudgingly. Pay for fouling the environment? Nope, that's not them, they believe it is the environment's fault it got fouled. People taking it in the neck because of a fouled environment? They must be ungrateful bastards who don't want to work for a living, they should be honored to live in a fouled environment, sacrificing their kids' health if need be.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:28 · Score: 0

You just described all of the big government IT consulting companies - including Microsoft.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:34 · Score: 0

Well, the ethical thing to do would be have IBM pay equivalent US salaries to their Indian counterparts. The other ethical thing would be to have IBM shift it's headquarters to India and stop pretending to be a US company.
Lots of multinational companies like the US branding and related securities but they don't like the costs associated with it so they find ways of getting the the benefits of both worlds.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:37 · Score: 0

Typical expat reject forced to settle for a discount chink.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 00:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, it is the Conservatives who won't pay the cost of doing business. Pay some taxes, pay some workers...all grudgingly. Pay for fouling the environment? Nope, that's not them, they believe it is the environment's fault it got fouled. People taking it in the neck because of a fouled environment? They must be ungrateful bastards who don't want to work for a living, they should be honored to live in a fouled environment, sacrificing their kids' health if need be.
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right. Conservatives want a free lunch doing business. Liberals want an unlimited amount of free social programs. Neither have any regard for the work or cost involved in either endeavor.

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We'll make great pets
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by jellomizer · 2017-09-29 01:11 · Score: 1

What is IBM known for now?
The last thing was Watson... Which is starting to be old technology. And IBM despite its commercials doesn't seem to be implemented anywhere to do things amazing or could be done for cheaper with custom coding. And Consulting, where you need to fight with a bunch of big names.
IBM just doesn't hold the same recognition anymore.
Part of it is the decline of customer support where you have level 1-3 support more or less being useless, especially for most Companies that have a competent IT Staff, who have already ruled out all the simple stuff, and only call support when there is defiantly a problem.
I also expect IBM selling its ThinkPad line to Lenovo was a huge mistake. It may had made some money in the short term, but the ThinkPad is still the most common business laptop. Now IBM doesn't have their Logo on, 75% of the Business Peoples computers, to remind them that IBM could be an option for them to take a look at.
Finally they are extremely separated from its customer base. They say they send experts, but they often fail to understand the nuances of the business sector. They don't really understand where the pain points are for the business, and push technology that doesn't fit. And will not offer enough support to get it going.
Outsourcing only increases these problems.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:17 · Score: 0

just kick out all them leechin sandniggazz from our white country, then bomb their mideast wasteland shitholes into a slag heap of glass.
that oughta fix it?
( IBM = its broken, motherfucker )
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by fluffernutter · 2017-09-29 01:39 · Score: 1

To be fair, even the government admits that the problem was mishandling on the government side. The contract specifically gave the government full control over the project since they were worried the alternative was for IBM to essentially control the government.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:52 · Score: 0

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/EqUnSLI
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 02:02 · Score: 0

No, it is the Conservatives who won't pay the cost of doing business. Pay some taxes, pay some workers...all grudgingly. Pay for fouling the environment? Nope, that's not them, they believe it is the environment's fault it got fouled. People taking it in the neck because of a fouled environment? They must be ungrateful bastards who don't want to work for a living, they should be honored to live in a fouled environment, sacrificing their kids' health if need be.
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right. Conservatives want a free lunch doing business. Liberals want an unlimited amount of free social programs. Neither have any regard for the work or cost involved in either endeavor.
Nah, I think you'll find the liberals actually want to raise taxes to generate enough revenue to cover the cost of programs.
Conservatives want to eliminate taxes for the wealthy and don't care that the government can't pay for social programs, because, greed.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 02:06 · Score: 0

Odd. U far right wing nuts continue to fight against paying ur fair share of taxes, while demanding that you have every gov resource offered to you, and u claim that hiring ibm is liberal? Only idiots will buy off on that
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by oh_my_080980980 · 2017-09-29 02:35 · Score: 1

offshoring or outsourcing amounts to the same thing.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by oh_my_080980980 · 2017-09-29 02:37 · Score: 1

You know what he meant. You are intentionally playing stupid to make your argument sound smart.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 03:41 · Score: 0

Nah, I think you'll find the liberals actually want to raise taxes to generate enough revenue to cover the cost of programs.
Here's an exercise for you if you can put down the liberal Koolaid for a second. Calculate the amount of money that you would get from all tax filers making >$250,000 a year and sum it all up. Compare that to the $20 trillion deficit and calculate the difference. Inspect the number. Now, go calculate the combined income of EVERYONE and subtract that from the $20 trillion deficit and let that sink in. Still want to expand government programs and ask for more taxpayer money?

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We'll make great pets
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by shuz · 2017-09-29 04:05 · Score: 1

EX-CIO Beth Jacob's from Target Corp. My opinion on why she was really asked to leave is due to the significant number of vendors and outsourcing of IT that was done before 2014. IBM was one of the largest vendors and since 2014 and since Beth Jacob's departure a departure from IBM has also occurred.

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There is or can be built a machine that can simulate any physical object. -Church-Turing principle
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:06 · Score: 0

Have you considered that the target of taxation shouldn't be individual incomes, but instead corporations, where most income is being made anyway (even when it's just for personal use, thanks to dummy shell corps), and who have systematically reduced their own tax liabilities to the point that most, especially the largest, pay almost nothing at all as it is?
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:22 · Score: 0

Shanghai Bill is a Commie and his thought processes are clearly the result of the Chinese education system coupled with inculcation in California's magical thinking culture.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 04:40 · Score: 0

Have you considered that the target of taxation shouldn't be individual incomes, but instead corporations, where most income is being made anyway (even when it's just for personal use, thanks to dummy shell corps), and who have systematically reduced their own tax liabilities to the point that most, especially the largest, pay almost nothing at all as it is?
See previous response. Provide a proof for how the math of a balanced tax budget and how our national debt isn't going to balloon out of control. You idiots can make any stupid appeal to emotion you like but math is math. Perhaps you should have spent more time learning economics and math instead of basket weaving.

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We'll make great pets
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by drinkypoo · 2017-09-29 04:52 · Score: 2

See previous response. Provide a proof for how the math of a balanced tax budget and how our national debt isn't going to balloon out of control.
You haven't provided a proof that it will, and you're demanding that they provide a proof that it won't? We call people like you hypocrites.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:09 · Score: 0

People are retards. Please don't ask them to do math, they get all upset.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 05:27 · Score: 1

See previous response. Provide a proof for how the math of a balanced tax budget and how our national debt isn't going to balloon out of control.
You haven't provided a proof that it will, and you're demanding that they provide a proof that it won't? We call people like you hypocrites.
Oh what a valuable contribution to the topic. Ok I defer to you, what truth can we know on this topic then? Please enlighten us. Or instead of making a contribution, we'll just exchange insults then I take it? Because that does a lot of good doesn't it? When this is the default behavior of the human race, we deserve an extinction event.

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We'll make great pets
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:36 · Score: 0

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and writes "code" like a duck...
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:39 · Score: 0

Pad numbers, "do the needful" and bullshit their way to claims that "it works".
But the grunts and file get away with it because their brasses are not less mediocre.
A company that does enough offshoring gets usually so depressingly mediocre at all levels of (mis)management that no matter how bad they fuck it up, it is still "a great success".
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by drinkypoo · 2017-09-29 05:43 · Score: 1

My contribution is that I've pointed out the specific way in which you're full of shit. I'll do it again: I note that you're still dissembling instead of providing some evidence. If it's so obvious, it should be trivial for you.
Thus far, you've added absolutely nothing to this conversation, but you have managed to waste time and take up space. Do you have any intention of adding any value?

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 06:01 · Score: 1

My contribution is that I've pointed out the specific way in which you're full of shit. I'll do it again: I note that you're still dissembling instead of providing some evidence. If it's so obvious, it should be trivial for you.
Did you now? In order to prove that claim, you would have to do the following:

1) Define the claim I was making
2) Provide facts and evidence to refute the claim

In order for me to be "full of shit", I would have to be "full of shit" about <something>. If you can't define what said something is, then I'm not "full of shit". Unless of course, you are just spewing ad hominems, in which case, by all means carry on. :)

Are you at least going to attempt to be intellectual honest or are you just so consumed by your out of control emotions that you are just going to continue to spew nonsense? That would be pretty sad to have that level of lack of mental discipline.

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We'll make great pets
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 06:15 · Score: 1

Well, I'm probably one of the people to which you refer, and I have no issue with paying taxes - but I have a big issue with most of my tax money being wasted. Of course, we right wings are capable of typing words like 'you,' 'your,' and using better grammar and proper punctuation as well.
Re: Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:11 · Score: 0

India is actually part of Asia.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 08:12 · Score: 0

I'm pretty sure the most recently election has forever destroyed the "both sides are guilty of...." type of argument. Anyone who still believes this must also believe amputation is equally valid a treatment as a band-aid for a papercut.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 08:14 · Score: 0

Where to start, where to start...
$20 trillion DEBT, no deficit. Comparing debt to deficit is like comparing climate to weather. Oh, wait, you're conservative, you don't know the difference between those either.
Anyway...the debt was built up over 225+ years. Obviously a single year of taxes isn't going to pay it off. Perhaps, and this is just me with an understanding of the linear flow of time speaking, correct allocation of taxes (no new wars, no bank bailouts, no giveaways to rich tax shelters, etc) over SEVERAL YEARS would have some impact.
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 11:41 · Score: 0

Haha.. look whose afraid of a little competition..
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 22:31 · Score: 0

Hahaha.. when can't refute the argument, answer the question, just branded that person a commie. What is this, 60s? 70s?
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-30 06:10 · Score: 0

Have you considered that the target of taxation shouldn't be individual incomes, but instead corporations, where most income is being made anyway (even when it's just for personal use, thanks to dummy shell corps), and who have systematically reduced their own tax liabilities to the point that most, especially the largest, pay almost nothing at all as it is?
Yes we have. Taxing corporations - like so many other "sounds like a good idea" policies favoured by the left - has negative consequences that end up doing more harm than good, especially to the folks in the lowest economic brackets. The economic reasons are discussed at length in prior Slashdot discussions, so exercise those search muscles.
Tax the owners and executives instead, with a nice simple progressive system. Also tax massive inheritance and gifts (not ordinary stuff), and money going overseas as if it was income. Massively reduce the size of the tax code to get rid of all the loopholes (50 pages should be sufficient) - and require the code to be maintained (correcting errors as they are found) instead of having endless precedents that only serve to feed the lawyers.
Do this, and you'll find that government has MORE money to spend even at LOWER tax rates, and you'll solve lots of problems - including the shell corporation problem. Of course, you won't get to spent a lot of that money right away - it will take decades to get rid of government debt, which causes just as many problems as the tax code and thus needs to be a high priority. An economy based on government debt is always going to be a sick economy, compared to one where government pays "cash on the barrelhead".
Re:Perhaps the government and corps... by EmptyHead · 2017-10-01 02:20 · Score: 1

We already have one of the highest corporate rates in the world. Any tax increase will be borne by the middle-class. Upper class always has a way out or they'll switch countries to avoid paying their fair share. The average citizen needs to plan on getting prepared to take care of themselves - colleges don't seem to focus on that and probably should. Blaming everything on "the man" and marching in ANTIFA get-togethers probably doesn't pay that well.

Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:11 · Score: 0

Given this track record of revenue decline, shifting their workforce to india was perhaps not the best idea.. Companies that instead do make money don't do that.

Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by TuballoyThunder · 2017-09-28 22:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

You seem to be onto something. Shifting the workforce to India (which lowered costs) and revenue is still declining. Perhaps IBM should see reassess the cause for declining revenue.
Isnâ(TM)t the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
Re:Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:07 · Score: 0

Companies that instead do make money don't do that.
Do you mean, "Companies that intend to make money don't do that."?
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:38 · Score: 0

The people who make these decisions won't have to live though the effects so they really don't care. They'll take their cushy overpaid salaries and move along way before the boat sinks.
Re:Given this track record of revenue decline.. by jellomizer · 2017-09-29 00:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Too bad you ACed your post. This deserves better moderation.
The Indians are Smart hard working people... However they don't work the same way that Americans do, for an American Company like IBM it needs enough Americans in its rank to maintain its corporate culture, even if they green card Indian workers to the States and pay them the salaries of the Americans in the same positions, they would pick up the American Culture and how business is done here, then they could repatriate back to India after a couple years and know how to do things the IBM way.
Such cost saving to deal with declining revenue, is the death spiral of a company. Because in essence you are getting what you paid for. So laying off Engineers with decades of experience, knowledge how to weed threw IBM bureaucracy, getting fired because they think a Mainframe Engineer cannot be easily trained to do IoT, vs Hiring some guy out of school with IoT on their Resume because they took a class on it, with little real life experience. In many ways this Mainframe guy with decades of expedience may be the perfect employee for this new technology. Because they are going to small devices with low Ram and low processing power, Just like the systems they worked on when they started.
IBM is an American Company, and it will need to run like one, Forgien workers are OK for them, but if they start putting their core values away just for cost savings, they are just going to be on their way out.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Kreplock · 2017-09-29 02:07 · Score: 1

Exactly. And their only metric of concern is "cost" (not real costs, reported, adjusted costs and "value"). They do not care about actual product, or actual employee productivity. I've seen the "value" reports getting generated prior to quarterly and annual meetings firsthand - everyone is complicit. Just a few more years of trading bogus reports as actual success and managers and directors have moved on, so no worries for them.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by WindBourne · 2017-09-29 02:10 · Score: 1

The real issue is that smart ppl know that IBM is still charging top dollars for massive executive bonuses, while getting shoddy work that could be done at 1/2 to 1/5 of the price, if going with a pure Indian company.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by khandom08 · 2017-09-29 02:19 · Score: 1

While I do agree with your sentiment, I have to admit that I take issue with your use of the expression

..the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?
. Every time I hear that I cringe.
https://www.psychologytoday.co...
To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:
Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by WindBourne · 2017-09-29 02:23 · Score: 1

Careful there. I have admired the Indians that I have worked directly with and even married an Indian ( family from Chennai ). But, 1 of my past students pointed out something interesting. He knew that I enjoyed working with Indians, but then he pointed out that those coming to America, are the best of the best. Most are American educated so got top grades. However, back in India, their bachelor degrees in CS from most of their Universities are similar to an AA degree here . Worse, once an Indian gets a job, it is impossible to fire them over there even if totally inept. Now, there are exceptions to all of that. For example, my wife's grandfather started ITT Madras and it is now a top notch University. And there are other ITTs that are top notch to decent. To be fair, the majority of ITTs still remain as junk status, as does the vast majority of other indian universities. So getting good ppl in India IS hard and in general, if they are good, they leave India.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by ichimunki · 2017-09-29 03:32 · Score: 1

Thank you. I'm so sick of hearing this "definition" of insanity. While doing the same thing over and over expecting different results might be insane, so are lots of other things.

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I do not have a signature
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by ichimunki · 2017-09-29 03:39 · Score: 1

Agreed. Most of my foreign-born coworkers here in the US have been very good at their jobs. And none of them have been the worst I've encountered (leave that to Americans). But when off-shoring to groups in other countries (not just India), problems arise. I think the search for cost-savings in IT via off-shoring is usually self-defeating since it only focuses on a single obvious tangible metric for a SMALL portion of the entire effort. The people who do this tend to show themselves as penny-wise-pound-foolish in other areas as well. I've seen guys who drive cars that cost more than developers make in a year complain about a few bucks here and there around the office for furniture or get really directly involved in the color or placement of a single button on a web page. It's a grasping after control, since they really think of software development as magical and the only thing they really do understand is how much they are paying in salary.

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I do not have a signature
Re:Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-29 05:46 · Score: 1

THe problem is pure greed.
Not in hiring Indians per say, but still charing 10's of millions of dollars and getting someone whose only experience is working help desk instead of an enterprise architect with 15 years experience for projects.
So a normal project that would cost $250,000 IBM wants to charge $10,000,000 but doesn't even include architects or maybe one senior level guy and the rest help desk gurus still studying for the MCSE implementing it.
Gee customers are going elsewhere. I can't imagine why? There is nothing wrong with going to cheap to India to save $$$$. What is wrong is charging a premium for it. If I want to pay $10,000,000 instead of $250,000 then dammit I want 15 year experienced architects with a world wide portfolio working at Google, Akamia, and other top end institutions for that price for my project. If not then I am going to go $250,000 and going INFOsys if I do not care about quality

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http://saveie6.com/
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 06:02 · Score: 0

So ? Let the free Enterprise system sort Out IBM. Literally.
Re: Given this track record of revenue decline.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 22:57 · Score: 0

The ratio of off shore managers has tipped the balance, they wills not stop because that ends their career
Next Cisco

Used to be Idiots Become Managers by Hognoxious · 2017-09-28 22:18 · Score: 1

So now it stands for Indians Become Managers?

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Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Re:Used to be Idiots Become Managers by Quakeulf · 2017-09-28 22:24 · Score: 1

Intentionally Bad Management.
Re:Used to be Idiots Become Managers by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2017-09-28 23:04 · Score: 2

There's lots http://bigblueblues.wikifoundr...

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Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Re:Used to be Idiots Become Managers by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:19 · Score: 0

Indian Bowel Movements
Re:Used to be Idiots Become Managers by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 14:17 · Score: 0

IBM is providing the technical know-how for the designated shitting streets. What a wonderful world!

no one ever got fired for buying ibm... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:18 · Score: 1, Funny

*working* for ibm? entirely different story.

Immigrant IBM employees in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:22 · Score: 0

And how many of IBM's employees in the United States are immigrants from India and other countries?

Re:Immigrant IBM employees in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:07 · Score: 0

And how many in the United States are immigrants from India and other countries?
FTFY
Re: Immigrant IBM employees in the US by WindBourne · 2017-09-29 02:30 · Score: 1

About 13% of the population are foreign-born.

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International....business machines by turkeydance · 2017-09-28 22:24 · Score: 2, Informative

currently, India is starting to lose employee count since it is no longer a "low cost" supplier.

Re:International....business machines by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 22:35 · Score: 0

Replaced by whom ?
Re: International....business machines by orlanz · 2017-09-28 22:36 · Score: 1

There is also automation that has started digging in. A lot of work that gets offshored for clients is stuff like checking some fields before releasing a PO, executing a script to implement a change into prod, resetting user passwords, creating a VM from image, restarting & checking servers for patch level, etc. Mundane stuff that historically was cheaper to offload to the lowest cost labor but now it's better to have one small scripting team and a small executing team.
Re:International....business machines by ShanghaiBill · 2017-09-28 22:40 · Score: 3, Informative

currently, India is starting to lose employee count since it is no longer a "low cost" supplier.
Bangalore and Mumbai are getting more expensive, but if you go north and east, there are another billion Indians who will work for less.
Re: International....business machines by bobstreo · 2017-09-28 22:50 · Score: 1

There is also automation that has started digging in. A lot of work that gets offshored for clients is stuff like checking some fields before releasing a PO, executing a script to implement a change into prod, resetting user passwords, creating a VM from image, restarting & checking servers for patch level, etc. Mundane stuff that historically was cheaper to offload to the lowest cost labor but now it's better to have one small scripting team and a small executing team.
So, all the jobs that robots/dumb AI/shellscripts will be replacing soon?
Re:International....business machines by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:10 · Score: 0

Work staying onshore instead of being moved offshore.
Re:International....business machines by Quakeulf · 2017-09-29 00:26 · Score: 1

Whomst?
Re:International....business machines by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:28 · Score: 0

currently, India is starting to lose employee count since it is no longer a "low cost" supplier.
Bangalore and Mumbai are getting more expensive, but if you go north and east, there are another billion Indians who will work for less.
You just need some sort of Internet with telephone line. The problem is the Internet isn't that great far outside a big city, so it needs some times.
Re:International....business machines by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 13:46 · Score: 0

Sure but about 999,999,999 know nothing about technical fields. Otoh, every one of those are experts in defecating in the street. So maybe IBM has positions open requiring that core competency.

What has India to do with declining revenues? by niks42 · 2017-09-28 22:32 · Score: 1

I'd argue that it makes sense to offshore to India, to Lithuania, to Africa, to Brazil. This is an information industry, and it is eminently portable to anywhere with decent connectivity. If there are some presumably temporary currency exchange, living costs or lifestyle differences that some tech company will exploit, in the race for the bottom then all tech companies will need to consider it.

The difference for me is that we pay a high premium for IBM, and expect #1 performance for that premium. If we are getting also-ran kind of performance for premium dollar, then you'll gradually lose revenue quarter on quarter.

Dear IBM, you're playing a game you can't win. Change the rules. Deliver premium performance so your existing price points can be supported, and you have delighted customers. Or shut the doors. Your choice.

Re:What has India to do with declining revenues? by tomhath · 2017-09-29 00:20 · Score: 1

This is an information industry, and it is eminently portable to anywhere with decent connectivity.
India had a big advantage because, as a former British colony, the English language is widely spoken there. Have you ever worked with teams from Brazil or Eastern Europe? It can be done, but not easily or efficiently.
You're correct though, IBM charges a premium price and isn't delivering a premium product. As more businesses figure that out IBM's death spiral becomes faster and faster.
Re:What has India to do with declining revenues? by gtall · 2017-09-29 00:27 · Score: 1

You mistake IBM for an ongoing business concern. That's not the managers' job. The managers of IBM are only there to slowly eat the pig until its gone, then they'll move on to another pig.
Re:What has India to do with declining revenues? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 02:59 · Score: 0

This is an information industry, and it is eminently portable to anywhere with decent connectivity.
India had a big advantage because, as a former British colony, the English language is widely spoken there..
But unfortunately, spoken with an accent that only Indians or British can understand. The spoken English language also cannot convey the meaning of the head-bobble.
Re:What has India to do with declining revenues? by turbidostato · 2017-09-29 03:43 · Score: 1

"You're correct though, IBM charges a premium price and isn't delivering a premium product. As more businesses figure that out IBM's death spiral becomes faster and faster."
And yet, just today, one of biggest 50 banks in the world announced a strategic partnership with IBM to bring "innovation and transformation".
Re:What has India to do with declining revenues? by niks42 · 2017-09-29 05:06 · Score: 1

I worked at IBM for 27 years, so I speak with a modicum of knowledge. I wrote a management memo twenty years ago that said as long as IBM failed to recognise that few of our customers needed them to prevail, and they could go elsewhere for competitively priced solutions without fear of loss of a quality solution, or reputation then IBM could kiss their shiny metal asses goodbye. From when I joined the company, and they were the largest IT company in the world, nearly ten times bigger than their nearest rivals (who were Digital by the way) they had already fallen a long, long way. Now look at them, grasping on to AI as if it is going to save the company any more than it did with "Expert Systems" in the 80s.

I'd still personally specify a big AIX/POWER architecture engine over any other big machine, but it is getting so much tougher to win that battle with decision makers.
Re: What has India to do with declining revenues? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 06:07 · Score: 0

Many Bankers are big time idiots.

One team is even working with the producers of Ses by JeffOwl · 2017-09-28 22:40 · Score: 1

"One team is even working with the producers of Sesame Street to teach vocabulary to kindergartners in Atlanta. "

This may be the first phase of bringing 1st line technical support jobs back to the US.

/aisle seat

Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by pablo_max · 2017-09-28 23:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

This issue is nothing particular to IBM. It is simply the way of Globalization.
It is a predictable and repeating pattern.
A company leaves an area with high standards of living for a 2nd or 3rd world country in order to save money and increase their profit margins.
Other companies do the same.
2nd world economy grows, wages increase, standard of living increases.
Company moves to the next 2nd or 3rd world country since the current one is too expensive.
After a few cycles, the wages and standard of living in the original country should have reduced enough due to goods no longer being produced there that the company can relocate back to country 1 and start the whole thing over again.
They are basically locusts. Moving from place to place until they have taken every ounce of profit they can.

Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by dnaumov · 2017-09-28 23:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Not sure if you noticed it, but you are basically saying global corporations increase standards of living everywhere they go. Your attempt to make them look like the bad guys is backfiring spectacularly.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by zifn4b · 2017-09-28 23:55 · Score: 1

2nd world economy grows, wages increase, standard of living increases.
Let's stop right there. Here's a lesson to learn. What this means is that by subsidizing the standard of living of the citizens of your own home country, you raise the standards of living in a different country and possibly one that hates you. That's almost the definition of treason is it not? Yes I use the word "hate". Why you might ask? Let's take India for example, do you know where the majority of scam robocalls come from? Have you heard what these folks have to say about Americans and probably not just Americans? They use racial slurs and all kinds of profanity. Sometimes the racial slurs are quite funny because they use insults that would be extremely offensive in their culture but have no meaning in other cultures. Why would you want to raise the standard of living in a country where the country's disposition towards your country is far less than friendly? You do the math.

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Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by admin7087 · 2017-09-28 23:56 · Score: 1

You portray this as if it was a negative trend but it isn't. It boosts the economy of poorer countries and adjusts them slowly to the economy of richer countries, which is an overall positive trend. We're all living in one world. That being said, this self-correcting feature of capitalism does not suffice in general. There is no way around monetary transfers from rich regions of the earth to poorer regions if you want to prevent mass migration movements (and the same will be true in future if we start to have colonies in space), because there will always be structurally weak or otherwise disadvantaged regions.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:06 · Score: 0

Moving from place to place ...
Globalization is meant to increase jobs (somewhere), increase economies of scale and lower prices: Which it does perfectly. The problem being, as noted, is that employees (and governments) become more disposable, resulting in a race to the bottom. Worse, the corporations still demand to be citizens of first-world countries and receive its benefits (eg. world police); thus externalizing costs. Also, corporations can conduct "Hollywoood accounting" across borders, preventing money returning to the countries that subsidize it. Last, US corporations can corrupt the US government so they are protected from competitive markets and exempted from protecting the environment and their employees.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by rfengr · 2017-09-29 00:11 · Score: 0

It’s interstellar that Foxconn is building a factory in the US, and hiring several thousand. I wonder how much automation will be used with that many people? Perhaps USA unskilled labor is now at equivalent cost of China.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Alwin+Henseler · 2017-09-29 00:21 · Score: 1

After a few cycles, the wages and standard of living in the original country should have reduced enough due to goods no longer being produced there that the company can relocate back to country 1 and start the whole thing over again.

That would imply standards of living drop after manufacturing moves on to cheaper countries. I think that will rarely be the case - if ever.
For starters, companies won't move on all at the same time. That leaves plenty of time to adjust & move low-skilled workers higher up the stack. Also while producing for other countries, workers will pick up some skills that are still useful after a company moves on. For example to produce for the home market (that didn't exist, or was poorly served before). Or go into design of products, vs. just manufacturing them.
Although I do share your sentiment about global corp's behavior, I see this more as a kind of development aid. Who profits to what degree may not be fairly divided, but in the long run / in the bigger scheme of things, everybody wins. Until @ some point, we have most countries up to a minimum "developed" standard (whatever meaning you attach), beside a few shitholes where a civil war or whatever is raging.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by tomhath · 2017-09-29 00:24 · Score: 1

It boosts the economy of poorer countries and adjusts them slowly to the economy of richer countries, which is an overall positive trend.
It pulls the poorer country up by pulling the richer country down, which is a positive trend for one and a very negative trend for the other.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:24 · Score: 0

you are basically saying global corporations increase standards of living everywhere they go

Short-term side effect. What they really do is increase the standard of expectation and sense of entitlement. Then they move on when that society finally implodes in a wreck of narcissism, cat selfies, and surveillance toys.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Gussington · 2017-09-29 00:26 · Score: 1

Let's stop right there. Here's a lesson to learn. What this means is that by subsidizing the standard of living of the citizens of your own home country, you raise the standards of living in a different country and possibly one that hates you. That's almost the definition of treason is it not?

Ok this is the stupidest comment I've read all day.

Why would you want to raise the standard of living in a country where the country's disposition towards your country is far less than friendly? You do the math.
Well apart from the fact that India has been an ally of the west for hundreds of years, the math has already been done. Centuries of foreign affairs has taught us that increasing the standards of living has the greatest force for peace there is.
When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by gtall · 2017-09-29 00:30 · Score: 1

No, you need to check in with el Presidente Tweetie. He lauded IBM not so long ago for promising to create 25,000 new jobs in the U.S. It wasn't that he was too stupid to realize they were playing him, he got his sound bite and was a happy camper. His interest was no deeper.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:49 · Score: 0

This effect is also marginal overall.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by zifn4b · 2017-09-29 00:50 · Score: 1

Ok this is the stupidest comment I've read all day.
I think I lost brain cells reading your response. Next time I vote, I will vote with the intent to cancel out your vote. Cheers!

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We'll make great pets
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:54 · Score: 0

Of course the standards of living Drop. Why do you think the USA is such a relative shithole now? Most of the USA is a 2nd world country. I know, I'm an American living in Vietnam.
I'll take Vietnam, thanks.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by bill_mcgonigle · 2017-09-29 00:59 · Score: 1

Oh, I thought he was saying that high taxation was driving companies out of first world countries and that had nothing to do with the government.

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Globalization increases the standards only temporarily. And they don't increase it by much before they hop out and leave a big, gaping hole that makes the problem worse than when they were there. Because the fact is there is always someplace cheaper with less regulations and pesky work standards.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:20 · Score: 0

It's a positive trend for both, in the long run, and also pretty much inevitable. A highly developed country could only retain the jobs by substantially lowering the standards, i.e., in the end by becoming poorer and less developed. Protectionism is not a general solution (and never worked in the past), it tends to lead to negative effects for all sides, although it may make sense for a short time occasionally.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2017-09-29 01:39 · Score: 1

Well apart from the fact that India has been an ally of the west for hundreds of years, the math has already been done.

Well apart from the fact that India has been a colony of the west for hundreds of years, the math has already been done.
You had a minor typo there, which I have fixed for you.
Now that the folks in the UK want a Brexit from the EU, they are chucking out low-paid, unskilled workers from Eastern Europe, mostly Poles.
The Brexit crew wants to "return England to its former glory" . . . which means they will be colonizing again. They need a new source of low-paid, unskilled workers.
However, an angry, scrawny old man wearing a diaper India chased them out, so some of the folks in potential colonies might get kind of uppity. I'm thinking that some third world countries without oil would be good candidates. Expect to see UK diplomats on "shopping sprees" in Africa soon . . .

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Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:40 · Score: 1

"That would imply standards of living drop after manufacturing moves on to cheaper countries. I think that will rarely be the case - if ever."
I think you need to check out some of the U.S. rust belt where factory closings have resulted in what is now turning into mulch-generational poverty. I'd say their standard of living has definitely dropped.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Mitreya · 2017-09-29 01:45 · Score: 1

This issue is nothing particular to IBM. It is simply the way of Globalization.
More interestingly, Globalization only works for companies.
If I want to buy a DVD or textbook from India (at their prices) or, say, medicine from Canada, that's against the law.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by fluffernutter · 2017-09-29 01:54 · Score: 1

If you look at how little living standards are actually increased versus the very few that are actually getting a vastly disproportionate benefit from it (hint: these people don't have an issue with living standards in the first place), it is still a valid point. It's no different than heads of humanitarian aid organizations living in big North American mansions.

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Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by fluffernutter · 2017-09-29 01:57 · Score: 2

Furthermore, in the richer country the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The people bearing the brunt of this are people who are struggling in the rich country in the first place.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Graydyn+Young · 2017-09-29 02:17 · Score: 1

He meant to say it's like reverse-locusts that show up and barf delicious grain all over farmers fields.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by angel'o'sphere · 2017-09-29 02:33 · Score: 1

I can by text books from anywhere on the world.
Why can't you?

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by WindBourne · 2017-09-29 02:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, India's closest allie happens to be Russia and Iran. India is only close to the west for economics.

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by jeff4747 · 2017-09-29 03:40 · Score: 2

Not sure if you noticed it, but the post explicitly stated that the increased standard of living was temporary.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:00 · Score: 0

basically saying global corporations increase standards of living everywhere they go.
Not really. If you read the whole statement that last part about declining standards of living is key. If locusts left the fields in better shape somehow nobody would care how low they mowed the crops down to.
Globalization is arbitrage but with wages. In the this case, the effect is to depress the original countries' standard of living by extracting "value" (money) from the exchange at the highest possible rate.
The standard of living will equalized overall to some level. Some pockets (where the profit earners live) will increase significantly above average. But there is no guarantee that value extraction will improve any place involved in the exchange. The extraction of profits can turn Biloxi, Mississippi into Mogadishu, Somalia instead of raising Mogadishu up.
If done carefully the company putting manufacturing in a country can get below market rates. Then you can even depress the economy there. But often the expatriation of manufacturing and support slightly increases the standard of living in the foreign market until the company moves on, destroying the town they used to get cheap labor from.
In the optimal value extraction case, globalization doesn't raise up any boats. All the value is extracted and if possible, the tide is lowered everywhere but in the CEO's backyard.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:23 · Score: 0

Even if the standard of living goes back down, that is due to the global corporation having left there. You cannot really blame them for what happens after they move elsewhere.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:50 · Score: 0

It's too early to tell if what you're saying is true. Japan, the first place where production was farmed out to, still has a high standard of living. So does South Korea. So does Taiwan. And China's still growing. I'm hoping they'll have some deregulation here so that South America has a turn at the teat too, it's probably a vain hope. We'll see, or die waiting.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by rfengr · 2017-09-29 04:51 · Score: 1

Interesting, not interstellar. Fucking iPhone.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 06:56 · Score: 1

I had wondered who else would notice this :) And I'm a yank and know this, go figure.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 06:59 · Score: 1

"In the long run." So, if a nation (like Britain, France, or the USA) sees its living standards fall for, say, 60 years, but they'll rise after this, it might be good in the long run - but millions of people have had miserable lives. But that doesn't matter, because "in the long run" all is well. Well, with that logic, eventually the sun will die so why don't we all commit suicide now?
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 07:00 · Score: 1

Well, I'd say living standards have dropped _in terms of things that matter_ in most western countries for a while.
Re:Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:18 · Score: 0

You do the math.
No. Math was too hard, so we outsourced it.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:31 · Score: 0

It's too early to tell if what you're saying is true. Japan, the first place where production was farmed out to, still has a high standard of living. So does South Korea. So does Taiwan. And China's still growing. I'm hoping they'll have some deregulation here so that South America has a turn at the teat too, it's probably a vain hope. We'll see, or die waiting.
Gapping hole is not about local people in the region. It is the problem of the company and it isn't going away but rather moved with the company to the next location.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 09:31 · Score: 0

Foxconn = iPhone...hilarious
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by skam240 · 2017-10-01 21:37 · Score: 1

This is great because you've furnished nothing to support your claim. But hey, I'll spend time out of my life actually making a real life coherent point (you're welcome).
https://www.quora.com/Are-Indi...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
and honestly, what on earth does India get from alliances with Russia or Iran that would benefit it? Literally nothing aside from Iran playing a small counterweight to Pakistan. What on earth does modern Russia have to offer India? What does India have to gain from not helping the US in preventing China from becoming the dominant force in Asia? Simple casual logic dictates how wrong you are, let alone modern history.

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by WindBourne · 2017-10-02 08:37 · Score: 1

Not only are you a fucking idiot with absolutely no idea of what is happening in India, let along Asia, but you have no grasp of how to use Google.
Here is one google that will help you.
Here, about another that shows India Russian weapons that they collaborate on together in the same fashion that America, UK, and Canada do.
Then for some MORE fun, look up where the MAJORITY of Indians who travel abroad for an education, GO. It is NOT America. It is Russia. It has been that way since the 60s and remains currently.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by skam240 · 2017-10-02 10:26 · Score: 1

Oh name calling like a big boy! From the tone you must have shit your diapers when you read my post.
For you first link, I see a lot of US references in briefly looking. Furthermore, India knows Russia is of zero use in
It's ongoing boarder disputes with China. I think you're getting confused by old cold war political alignments to be honest.
As far as weapons go...
How about they're our second largest purchaser of arms
https://www.bloomberg.com/news...
Or how about we're their largest supplier of weapons
https://swarajyamag.com/politi...
As for education abroad, so what? Russia is far closer to India and far cheaper than the US so that's not terribly surprising at all.

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by WindBourne · 2017-10-04 02:43 · Score: 1

Have u looked at your postings? I was returning the favor.

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by skam240 · 2017-10-04 08:23 · Score: 1

I generally dont name call but at least you learned something about India!

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Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by WindBourne · 2017-10-04 20:51 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'm married to an Indian.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re: Globalization = Pure Capitalisim = Locustlike by skam240 · 2017-10-05 07:29 · Score: 1

Hey, that's both super and irrelevant! Obviously being married to an Indian doesnt make you an expert on modern Indian political alignments.

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Analysis by fennec · 2017-09-28 23:07 · Score: 1

21 quarters = 7 years, so revenue declined starting from 2010. "The company's employment in India has nearly doubled since 2007", some "smart" analysts could draw many conclusions from those figures...

Re:Analysis by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:39 · Score: 2, Informative

I have moderator points, but I can't find "+1 Math is Hard" in the list, so I'm commenting instead. It may be time to replace the batteries in your calculator, it thinks that there are 3 quarters in a year.
Re:Analysis by gsslay · 2017-09-29 01:51 · Score: 1

It doesn't take a "smart" analysis to see the basic error in your figures and draw conclusions.

Workforce Scaling by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:09 · Score: 0

Maybe IBM is aiming for workforce numbers scaled to the population size? India and China have three to four times the population to US and Europe, so the workforce will eventually mach that.

Revenue by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:26 · Score: 0

Revenue for their consultancy is down for one simple reason: it sucks. Everyone in the University sector in the UK knows now (after years of experience) that an IBM "partnership" means a lot of costs with little or no output after probably years of frustration.

They need to fix that, because no one works for so little that you can afford to have no business at all.

Re:Revenue by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:26 · Score: 0

Yep, was recently involved with a huge IBM project as another downstream vendor. Our company had boots on the ground and was helping fix issues with IBM's software for the customer because IBM wasn't bothering to come down, and only project managers were on the phone without a clue what to do.
The good news for me, is long term the customer is considering going straight to us instead of IBM, as they feel like IBM is skimming money without doing anything, and since my company is doing all the work anyway, might as well go straight to us for cheaper for them, but we make more money without having to yield to IBM.
IBM has laid off and sold off most of their technical talent by this point, and the market is starting to painfully realize this. Even in their rare good product with good support, they only have maybe 3-4 decent guys to cover the entire world for that given product.
Re: Revenue by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 06:25 · Score: 0

Bingo. The Market will fix this by ignoring IBM in the future.
Their Main Capital is people, mind you.

1/3 = 130000 ? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:41 · Score: 0

390000 ?

wow! what does IBM do?

Indians teaching vocabulary to Atlantans by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-28 23:47 · Score: 0

>"One team is even working with the producers of Sesame Street to teach vocabulary to kindergartners in Atlanta."

Sheeeit. Y'all best be doin' the needful, muthafuckas.

IBM = India Be Me by mveloso · 2017-09-28 23:58 · Score: 1

Welcome to Big Blue, India!

Quality? by Petronius · 2017-09-29 00:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Maybe revenues are down *because* the work is being done in India and the overall IBM value prop is no longer there. Did that ever occur to the bean counters?

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Re:Quality? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 02:04 · Score: 0

If I had mod points you'd have them!
Re:Quality? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 03:17 · Score: 0

IBM value prop was never there. They talk a big game (and charge a high price for it) but their stuff (both hardware and software) was always overpriced and underperforming. Where do you think Microsoft learned it from?
Re:Quality? by Tablizer · 2017-09-29 03:43 · Score: 1

ALL the big consulting firms are over-priced and under-performing. They are masters at sweet-talking PHB's and clueless managers into deals, but suck at execution.
Perhaps IBM's new strategy is to suck for less.

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Re:Quality? by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 07:02 · Score: 1

I love the new corporate motto: IBM. We suck for less!
Re:Quality? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 14:25 · Score: 0

Bean counting doesn't work when the beans are different.

Indian Business Machines by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:02 · Score: 0

Used to be International

Funny I would say... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:19 · Score: 0

...that all the outsourcing to India is why IBMs revenue is down.

21 quarters of decline by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:21 · Score: 0

And no manager at IBM is able to correlate the 5 years of decline with the 5 years of the move to India?

Fortunately I don't own shares in Indian Business Machines any more.

Re: 21 quarters of decline by WindBourne · 2017-09-29 02:27 · Score: 1

IBM used to make real adding machines ( in fact, Hitler used IBM equipment for counting, sorting, etc the ppl that went to death camps ). Now, without them, they are unable to make intelligent choices.

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Re: 21 quarters of decline by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 22:45 · Score: 0

The ratio of Indian managers is also increasing
Re: 21 quarters of decline by skam240 · 2017-10-01 21:21 · Score: 1

Well gee-golly, if Hitler was for it must be objectionable!

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hum by supernova87a · 2017-09-29 00:27 · Score: 1

What's the surprise? US is 4% of the global population and 24% of global GDP. Why would you expect any worldwide company to have its workforce concentrated there based on those stats? Companies have no particular allegiance to the US, friends, and its a mistake to think they do anymore.

Re:hum by gsslay · 2017-09-29 01:56 · Score: 1

Indeed. It's funny to see so many people here thinking that the US has some sort of claim on IBM, they're betraying the home country, and somehow Indian employees are worth less than Americans.
IBM is a multinational. It sells to whatever country is interested and it'll hire employees where-ever suits it.
Re:hum by Junta · 2017-09-29 02:13 · Score: 1

Of course India contributes about 17% to GDP, so by those stats, the US market should still matter more by that calculus. Of course by that same calculus, the mom and pop restaurant up the street from me should be trying to cater to the global population, despite having no ability to sell to them..
A more relevant metric is *IBM* income percentage. The US comprises 44% of IBM income, while *all* of AP (including Japan, China, India, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand) makes up about 21% combined.
While you could *claim* IBM is hiring in India to balance those scales a bit more and attract Indian clients, the reality is they are exploiting naivete about offshored labor forces to temporarily boost margins until most clients figure it out. India as a market probably knows better than to go to IBM, and instead to go to more qualified Indian companies who actually hire the skilled Indian workers rather than the cheapest.

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Re: hum by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 23:46 · Score: 0

No one is saying any of the straw man you ware defending. The comments are correlating the changes in IBM and its revenue decline

Predictable by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:33 · Score: 0

IT is a shitty job for shitty people. The fact that pretty much anybody can do your job should speak volumes about your skills, or lack of. Face it, nerds: computers are for chumps and you'll never be "our bosses". Now, empty the wastebaskets on your way out.

Gosh it's almost like the two go hand in hand by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:35 · Score: 0

They'll never understand that it is in fact the outsourcing that is the problem. IBM has gone from a known expensive but best quality vendor: "nobody ever gets fired for going with IBM" used to be the logic. Now? Now you're a laughing-stock if you go with IBM. Now it's just a known quantity you'll deal with outsourced idiots who literally ask you to explain to them how to take screenshots of their desktop, but sign their emails with "SAN Administrator". IBM's revenue is shrinking because the market is reacting to its sliding quality and abilities, it's that simple, and they'll never understand it.

1998 called by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:42 · Score: 0

We've off-shored (not the same as outsourcing) to India for over 20 years or so. Your description was accurate back then but they have come a long way since then. Our guys are doing great - even better than most of our Americans - and we've haven't experienced any of the problems purported here on Slashdot.

Yeah, some companies are trying it and getting burned but it's no different than hiring Americans who went to DeGree Mill.

Read "The World Is Flat" (Thomas L. Friedman) sometime. It should be a wakeup call to us Americans.

You can choose to prepare or you can bury your head in the sand and end up at Starbucks or worse; IT support.

Re:1998 called by Viol8 · 2017-09-29 00:57 · Score: 2

"Our guys are doing great - even better than most of our Americans - and we've haven't experienced any of the problems purported here on Slashdot."
Yeah, thats what all managers say when all they're talking about is the cost savings, not the actual productive output. I've worked with plenty of coders from India (not born in the west) and they were uniformly rubbish. They're thought patterns were linear, as soon as they hit a problem they throw it upstairs instead of trying to solve it and for the most part their code could be served with a nice tomato sauce and meatballs.
Re:1998 called by ichimunki · 2017-09-29 03:26 · Score: 1

This is not my experience at all. Coders who come to America to live and work are just as good as anyone else here. It's actual offshoring, whether to India or eastern Europe, where the quality of work suffers. And the worst programmers I've run across were born and raised in the USA. But the problem with them wasn't just that they couldn't code, it was that a bias in favor of those who conform to the American "hacker" stereotype (i.e. works crazy hours while sucking in mountain dew and saying technical sounding gibberish) allowed them to confound less technical coworkers into believing that the problem was actually really hard to solve. It has always dismayed me that inept system developers can look like heroes by staying up long nights hand-holding their crap systems through inevitable crises. Whereas if your code runs quickly and silently and you don't look stressed out, your bosses think you aren't working hard enough.

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Re: 1998 called by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:50 · Score: 0

You got that right.
I've might a lot of crap coders on both sides of the pond. It seems like if you generate a ton of drama or are very good at kissing ass, you're considered gold. But if your stuff works... Better pray to God or whatever deities you believe in because because if you don't have a super good boss, you're name will be on the copping block so fast your head will spin.
Probably the worat coder I have ever known also gets paid the most money. He's referred to as an 'Evil Genius' by a lot of the business types I know, but I've literally seen none of his work actually work. Ever. And one look at his code shows you why. He's always doing stuff that is clearly wrong. And he's completely abusive to everyone.
Re: 1998 called by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 22:54 · Score: 0

The society and culture a person is raised in and is living in will have an affect. Definitely there is a difference in the mental model, work ethics.
Where I see most differences across ethnic groups is
A) close enough is good enough
B) copy paste
C) understanding before executing

So? Indian workers are cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:42 · Score: 0

Indian workers are just as good, and often much better, than American workers and cost significantly less. Americans demand high pay (just look at all the minimum wage and labor regulation laws) for doing almost nothing, which is what makes them extremely undesirable. It's a free market, corporations aren't your slaves. Either work hard and prosper, or don't and skip that next iPhone.

Re: So? Indian workers are cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:04 · Score: 0

You lost me at "Indian workers are just as good..."

Probably a good milestone by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 00:59 · Score: 0

WWII moved the industrial center of gravity from Europe to the US. This was good for the world and painful for Europe but it worked out.

Looks like globalization, enabled by a communication revolution (and a contrast of hungry and not workers), has moved the CG again. This means a harder life for my kids, but probably a better worldwide average life. I'm not sure that's bad, but it seems likely to work out.

I suspect that this time, the comm revolution has made the CG is less 'sticky'. Which means everybody is going to have to stay on their best game. It also means that multi-national exploitation ^H^H^H profits are easier, which may say some (trade?) rule adjustments are in order.

duh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:05 · Score: 0

There are 1.3 billion people in India and 300 million in the United States so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that a global company like IBM has more people there.

Terrible Metrics by coofercat · 2017-09-29 01:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

Headcount is a terrible metric of anything - how many western jobs were lost to exactly one person in the developing world? Yep, 0.3-0.5. Pretty much every time a team of 50 in the west gets replaced, it's by a team of 100 or more in India.

Headcount might be a headline-grabbing metric, but it's pretty terrible for anything else. How about revenue? That would probably be a better metric - and for the US, how much of that money earned internationally made it back to the US? With your crazy tax rules, not much, I'd guess.

Re:Terrible Metrics by jfdavis668 · 2017-09-29 02:37 · Score: 4, Funny

That's why we don't use the metric system in the US.
Re:Terrible Metrics by Tablizer · 2017-09-29 03:24 · Score: 1

Okay, how many US heads does one Indian head convert to in the metric system?

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Re:Terrible Metrics by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:55 · Score: 0

Headcount is a terrible metric of anything - how many western jobs were lost to exactly one person in the developing world? Yep, 0.3-0.5. Pretty much every time a team of 50 in the west gets replaced, it's by a team of 100 or more in India.
Headcount might be a headline-grabbing metric, but it's pretty terrible for anything else. How about revenue? That would probably be a better metric - and for the US, how much of that money earned internationally made it back to the US? With your crazy tax rules, not much, I'd guess.
I don't see anything wrong with head-count system in the article because it does NOT talk about quality of work but rather how jobs are being distributed between India and the U.S. Therefore, there is no point of using revenue in their comparison.
Even you want to involve revenue, it is exactly the point of TFA -- reduce the cost. However, they also tend to lower their service quality after that. Though, if you ask any "executive" of IBM, they all believe that their service quality either remains the same or even better. That's what they believe! They are not customers. They are not people who are out there using the products. They have to believe in their decision and will not listen or even research what's going on out there. My point is, hiring more people with lower cost is not equal to the same or better quality.

... the company decided where to put jobs based on where it could find enough qualified workers and the customer’s budget. ...
Above is the quote from an IBM employee in India. They understood the situation. In other words, the quality is just good enough for a given budget. Though, a big question would be "how do you determine how good a service could be within a certain amount of budget?" IBM executives don't think about customers but rather their own bonus, so go figure.

Old news by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:11 · Score: 0

This was probably true 6-8 years ago, when I still worked there. IBM's business model is to buy companies with mature products and use them as cash cows to buy more companies, while the previous acquisitions depreciate in value.

And their revenues still decline... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:13 · Score: 0

Maybe what they are doing just isnâ(TM)t working.

IBM ? by Kohath · 2017-09-29 01:30 · Score: 2

Is it 1983? Who cares about IBM?

Re:IBM ? by LordWabbit2 · 2017-09-29 02:16 · Score: 1

Is it 1983? Who cares about IBM?
Erm, I think all the banks and insurance and other financial companies running on IBM mainframes with a gadjillion lines of robust, thoroughly tested COBOL code care a great deal. The reason IBM has so many people in India is that they are pretty much the only country still teaching people COBOL. My sister was in the last class to teach COBOL before they stopped the classes.

I don't know why COBOL gets so much hate from other programmers, for what it was created to do it does a damn good job. I don't know of any other languages that can take a string and split it up as easily as COBOL does.
It's easy to say "rewrite it in XYZ language" but you need to understand the amount of testing that goes into banking software (generally of course, there are exceptions). Yes, you can rewrite it relatively inexpensively, but after all the testing and crap it turns into a lot of man hours, and man hours means money, and the people who you want testing need to know the business backwards, so they are expensive man hours. And that is why there is still a gadjillion lines of COBOL doing your banking instead of a java applet.

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Re:IBM ? by ItsJustAPseudonym · 2017-09-29 06:18 · Score: 1

My sister was in the last class to teach COBOL before they stopped the classes.
Where and when was that, if you don't mind saying?
Re:IBM ? by LordWabbit2 · 2017-10-01 19:59 · Score: 1

Johannesburg, and it was a LONG time ago, at least 10 years, probably more, if you require and exact date I can drop her a mail, I am sure she would remember the date better than I.

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Re:IBM ? by ItsJustAPseudonym · 2017-10-02 01:49 · Score: 1

Thanks for the offer, but I was just curious about the general date. I met someone on an airplane 15 years ago, who was doing a brisk business maintaining COBOL used for banking software. Even then, he did not know where it was being taught. He had learned it 20 years prior.

One team is even working with the producers... by Dripdry · 2017-09-29 01:31 · Score: 1

"One team is even working with the producers of Sesame Street to teach vocabulary to kindergartners in Atlanta. "
It's not saying much about India.
It's not saying much about Atlanta either.
It's *certainly* not saying much about IBM...

I can tell you, living in Atlanta now, this is an improvement.

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Hollow by LesserWeevil · 2017-09-29 01:37 · Score: 1

The hollowing out of IBM is proceeding as described in Bob Cringely's book "The Rise and Fall of IBM. IBM is sacrificing everything for the sake of "shareholder value" including customer satisfaction, retention and long-term growth. The folks in the C-suite are counting their cash and packing their (platinum) parachutes..

Re:Hollow by Junta · 2017-09-29 02:24 · Score: 1

Basically from the time Sam Palmisano took the reigns, it's been about gutting the fundamentals more and more and seeing if things collapse. Even as the house of cards started to reveal itself in revenue decline, Rometty is just doubling down on Palmisano's playbook, because there is still millions to be gotten and despite the decline there's plenty of time for her to toss the hot potato to the next CEO, and even if her gambit fails, she and her group are still so wealthy as to not make much of a deal.
I wouldn't count on evan a *chance* of a reversal of IBM strategy until either the company has unambiguously fallen from grace and is essentially in ruin or a leader who is irrationally passionate about the industry appears.

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Re:Hollow by wyHunter · 2017-09-29 07:04 · Score: 1

It's like what happened to AT&T after divestiture, and that didn't end well; that company no longer exists, and its once world famous R&D centers are now either empty, or becoming shopping malls.

Re: So? Indian workers are cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 01:37 · Score: 0

Found the union scumbag.

Re:India has 4x the population of the US by Junta · 2017-09-29 01:57 · Score: 1

Of course, depending on your perspective of *marker*, this is suspect.

From a "market to sell services to", certainly IBM is doing some stuff to India, but by and large it's using India workforce to support companies in other countries. While this can serve well when expertise happens to be in an inconvenient place to the customer, what IBM is doing is seeking lowest possible pay to even vaguely appear to be able to support their clients. Note this is *not* an indictment of India, wherever IBM went it would be seeking the cheapest, not the best that job market has to offer. So while very good India tech skill does exist, it's also beyond IBM's willingness to pay. When they do by luck get a good employee, they will lose them in a few months to a company willing to pay local talent what they are worth. Combining it with Offshoring is a way to smokescreen things so the client is either unable to tell what is happening, or would be accused of being racist at suggesting the reality.

If the situation were reversed and IBM were sourcing talent from the US to non-US customers, IBM would be pursuing 20 year olds barely able to get degree-mill credentials in the US. They can't do so now because that would just be *too* obvious to american companies without the distance and culture gap to obscure things.

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"America First", right..... by evolutionary · 2017-09-29 02:06 · Score: 1

After all the talk about "America First". Trump is definitely not making that happen. Whether it's because he doesn't know how to work the political scene, or he doesn't care when it comes to major corporations (even declining ones), it isn't happening. The irony is no matter how many times IBM tries to marginalize their operations, they seems to go further into decline, certainly in comparison to their glory in the sun during the home computer wars back in the 80's. What is likely to happen (as it's happened before) is IBM gets poor code for it's consultancy business, either because of poor communication or poor code from junior cheap developers (subcontracted at least once from India) and they have to resort to nearshoring (say people in Kansas) to fix the poor code they get back. This happened once already. Will be fun to see how this turns out.

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Re:"America First", right..... by Tablizer · 2017-09-29 03:32 · Score: 1

Trump has made it harder for IT "body shops" like Infosys to get H1B visas. He's given Federal reviewers operating orders to process and approve specialized and higher-salary requests above the typical "body shop" employee requests.
Whether this changes anything of significance is too early to say, but he's the first politician to give it a try.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:"America First", right..... by SeaFox · 2017-09-29 06:17 · Score: 1

After all the talk about "America First". Trump is definitely not making that happen. Whether it's because he doesn't know how to work the political scene, or he doesn't care when it comes to major corporations (even declining ones), it isn't happening.
Only an idiot would think Trump was going to do anything so grand about unemployment to start with. He's the President, not the king he believes himself to be, and the "hometown employment issues" are caused by several factors, not all of which he has the power do anything about.
Environmental issues and advances in technology are putting the coal miners out of work. Trump cant stop tech progress, and he's not able to convince everyone Global Warming isn't a thing.
Manufacturing? That's been going away so long it's too late to stop it now. When the factories are already mothballed the cost to get them started again is too high. Plus, some of that is NAFTA, and since NAFTA is a treaty, Trump has zero authority to just stop it.
Jobs being lost to automation? Again, Trump can't stop progress. The H1B program and enforcing documentation requirements for employment to reduce illegal immigrants taking jobs are perhaps the only things he could really do anything about, but that requires the cooperation of a bunch of other people who may be on the cut to look the other way, and a lot of people (who are better at business than Trump) to agree with his views, and they don't because they're looking out for their own bottom line.
"I'm going to bring back the jobs" was just mouth-service to get the Uneducated Vote, and it worked.

Re: So? Indian workers are cheaper. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 02:14 · Score: 0

Found the retard.

Re:So? Indian workers are cheaper. by Junta · 2017-09-29 02:18 · Score: 1

Indian workers *can be as good or better*. However the ones IBM hires are *mostly* the ones who are note the best the labor market has to offer.

Not just IBM, generally any company going offshore (to any geo) is looking for cheap, and they forget that if you look *anywhere* for cheap, you won't get the best. When they offshore, they don't recognize realistic labor rates for the region, they don't recognize obvious degree mills and they chalk up any hard to ignore deficiencies during skill assessment to language or cultural gap.

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What's in a name? by rickb928 · 2017-09-29 02:25 · Score: 1

IBM Global Business Services is a GLOBAL business. It's in their name. It's their mission.

Locustlike? IBM, like any very large corporation, is intent on dominating their market. Domination. Not just success. Because if you don;t dominate, some other organization will. And they will take from you. Just the way it is.

Now, the question is how you choose to succeed at your mission - exceptional customer service? Scraping the value out of every transaction? Underpricing the competition? Driving costs down to force profitability out of a mundane market offering?

I'm pretty fortunate, working for a Fortune 100 company that thrives by delivering exceptional customer service, making prudent but fearless cost decisions to drive profitability *AND* enable development of new and better product and services, and is lead by clear headed, fearlessly honest leadership at (almost) every level. No, I do not work for IBM, nor GM, nor any Internet company. But I remember a former employer who did business with IBM in the 80s, and he remembers meeting with submanager after submanager, in windowless offices, pleading for approval so he could GIVE IBM HIS MONEY. When Fat Lou Gerstner took over at IBM, he turned the elephant on a dime, and most of those submanagers disappeared. Shrinking the management force, for one thing, put IBM on a leaner cost footing, and that started the, for me, second heyday of IBM, when a small-mid businessman could get an IBM salesman pitching the System/3x, another one pitching the RS/6000, a third pitching their PC systems with Windows NTAS (or Novell, they weren't picky). And the RS/6000 guy would show you file serving to your PC users, and the System/3x guy would pivot to an AS/400 and include the PC Server card. Tough for a local VAR to get wedged in and make their pitch. Now IBM is pitching what, cloud services, like AWS? Azure? You can make your own 'cloud' in the telco room, since that's empty now.. I don't hear about much innovation from IBM GS, but that's because I work in an environment where IBM delivers open source platforms with expensive and obtuse management layers. Feh, we could have gone with Red Hat, but we would have bought them outright - cheaper in the long run.

IBM is gone mediocre on a global basis. They can make a profit until someone finds a way to overwhelm them. In the interim they cut costs and pretend to harness energy overseas they cannot find in the US. And they may be right, because the energy in the US is focused on exciting cool things, and IBM is now just one voice among many shouting 'I'm cool! I'M COOL DAMMIT!'.

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deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.

I BM by BKDotCom · 2017-09-29 02:26 · Score: 1

The "I" stands for international

Yet, their payroll in India... by nomad63 · 2017-09-29 02:42 · Score: 1

Yet their payroll in India is a quarter of that of the US employees. Yee-haw.... More money for IBM. Lay off those US based moochers :) you can do it ! On the more serious side where or when this will end ?

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The more I know people, the more I love animals

their new logo by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 03:09 · Score: 0

The interlaced lines have been converted to stink lines with flies buzzing around it

IBM - India Business Machines? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 03:12 · Score: 0

So IBM is now India Business Machines?

No abuse of H1-B system at all... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 03:35 · Score: 0

And there is no abuse of the H1-B system at all, right?

"The work in India has been vital to keeping down costs at IBM", and at the same time so many in the states are struggling to find this type of work that pays a living wage.

Well they would. by tietokone-olmi · 2017-09-29 03:40 · Score: 1

It's five for the price of one!

India Business Machines? by IGnatius+T+Foobar · 2017-09-29 04:01 · Score: 1

India Business Machines? Didn't they used to be a technology company or something?

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Remember the Holocaust... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 04:13 · Score: 0

It was IBM that enabled the Nazis in World War II to exterminate six million people. Read about it in "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation".

Tarriffs? by thunderclees · 2017-09-29 04:36 · Score: 1

When a company is mostly in another country should it not receive that same tariffs by treaty as a "foreign" corporation would?

I B M by sexconker · 2017-09-29 04:38 · Score: 1

Indian
Bowel
Movements

Re:I B M by AnalogDiehard · 2017-09-29 08:15 · Score: 1

Indian Bowel Movements
I
Bought a
Mac

(I used to work as a contractor at IBM back in the late 80s and this actually went around internally. The sad truth is I jumped ship to Mac)

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Re:One team is even working with the producers of by drinkypoo · 2017-09-29 04:55 · Score: 1

This may be the first phase of bringing 1st line technical support jobs back to the US.

When IBM bought Tivoli they implemented a level 1 support team to answer the phone and open cases for us. And we started seeing cases with shit like "yowzij" (usage) and "dragon drop". And this is why I.B.M. is S.H.I.T.

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die by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:30 · Score: 0

They are doubling down on stupid. They are losing business because of the Indians.
But hey, this is better business for me... I get called to fix their crap..

Nadir by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:32 · Score: 0

They're also at about peak irrelevancy.

International = Global by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 05:41 · Score: 0

Why should a company purporting to be an "international" company not have the option the expand wherever it deems fit?

Cheaper rates by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-29 05:42 · Score: 1

Good as I am sure now we are going to see cheaper rates now from IBM .... BAHAHA who am I kidding

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Re: India has 4x the population of the US by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 06:19 · Score: 0

Let the Market sort this Out. RIP, IBM.

Re:One team is even working with the producers of by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 07:20 · Score: 0

Dragon Drop sounds like something you download to your iPad to keep your toddler busy while he is on the potty.

It takes 25 Indians to equal 1 American... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 09:12 · Score: 0

So of course they have more of them than us.

Female CEO by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-29 09:46 · Score: 0

Sell the stock

Cheap labor = cheap work... by martinfb · 2017-10-01 05:13 · Score: 1

Depending on the job, the salaries paid to Indian workers are one-half to one-fifth those paid to Americans,...

As most of us know, dealing with India-based help desks is among the worst experiences ever!
So, it seems that IBM would be rendering services/products with the same relative, considerable low quality.
It's a shame to have to subject clients to the torture of India's workforce output.
Given their proclivity to butcher any second language, imagine what IBM documentation will look like now!

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Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.

This was reported in 2012 by dcblogs · 2017-10-02 11:02 · Score: 1

Computerworld had the story: https://www.computerworld.com/...

Slashdot Mirror

IBM Now Has More Employees In India Than In the US (newsindiatimes.com)

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