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Ask Slashdot: What Should A Mac User Know Before Buying a Windows Laptop?
New submitter Brentyl writes: Hello Slashdotters, longtime Mac user here faced with a challenge: Our 14-year-old wants a Windows laptop. He will use it for school and life, but the primary reason he wants Windows instead of a MacBook is gaming. I don't need a recommendation on which laptop to buy, but I do need a Windows survival kit. What does a fairly savvy fellow, who is a complete Windows neophyte, need to know? Is the antivirus/firewall in Windows 10 Home sufficient? Are there must-have utilities or programs I need to get? When connecting to my home network, I need to make sure I ____? And so on... Thanks in advance for your insights.
Is a Macbook Pro running Bootcamp.
ask your son he probably knows more about computers then you do
Seriously. There aren't any that come close to even a decade-old Macbook Pro.
give em Linux and tell them to figure out how to run Windows games
And then tell the rest of the world how he did it.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Get a machine with at least 16GB of memory
Install VirtualBox
Install Linux on VirtualBox, and take a snapshot.
Tell him to do all web related things inside the Linux VM, and only use Windows for gaming.
If Linux ever manages to break (unlikely), use the rollback.
YSN that if you buy a Windows laptop you won't have to pay $400 for an entire bottom deck when one key on your keyboard fails. You just pull the keyboard out and put in a new keyboard.
give em Linux and tell them to figure out how to run Windows games.
The result of such will be that the user will run into third-party digital restrictions management and anti-cheat software that explicitly forbids use of Wine.
One reason pc laptops get a bad rep is the good deals are full of crapware. Pay a bit extra for a Microsoft signature edition (usually less then $100 more then same hardware) but these have ZERO crapware and have had extra driver testing.
the primary reason he wants Windows instead of a MacBook is gaming.
I always recommend that unless you specifically need special hardware, to just get a $300-$400 refurbished laptop.
The problem is that you need to be careful in order not to end up with Intel integrated graphics, which isn't always suitable for the newest games. It'll take a while for Intel's deal with Radeon to bring products to the market, and it'll take another while for those to end up on the refurbished market. Therefore, gamers "specifically need special hardware." If gaming weren't the reason, he could just buy a Windows license to run in Boot Camp.
Don't run as administrator - create another user account.
I would recommend the Windows 10 Field Guide by Paul Thurrott : https://leanpub.com/windows10fieldguide
God help you. I'm been through this, and it's ugly. My daughter destroyed her machine in minutes, multiple times. By the 5th wipe/reinstall she started to learn to avoid the crudites. (she started on linux, moved to mac, then Windows... for games of course)
1) no admin rights, and make sure no one ever runs as admin
2) firewall shit up
3) turn on windows defender, and grab a copy of webroot
4) remove IE, install chrome
5) get steam, only let games install from there
And force him to play tux.
IMHO antivirus/firewall on Windows machines is not enough to mitigate the attack surface... especially with a teenager behind the keyboard. If we are going to be honest about it, they are going to access websites we are not going to approve of. Strictly from a network security standpoint I would segregate the Windows machine into an isolated VLAN and prohibit him from doing any financial or other sensitive activities from that PC.
If he wants a 12" screen, X220s can be had for about $150 refurb. Plop in an SSD, 8GB of RAM, price is under $250. Fast, solid, indestructible laptop.
If he wants 14"-15", the Thinkpad T4x0 and T5x0 series are great.
These machines aren't sexy or "cool", but they'll last him 4-5 years, can run Linux or even MacOS if he wants to tinker, and (with an SSD), will take a lot of abuse (falling down dorm stairs, etc).
Check the hardware for linux compatibility.
Since when does the packaging of mainstream* laptop PCs include a penguin logo or other notice of compatibility with X11/Linux?
you might also want an AMD machine (though they may have their own secrets.)
AMD kit includes the analogous AMD Secure Processor, which runs ARM TrustZone. (It used to be called the Platform Security Processor until people who bought AMD-powered PS4 consoles were disappointed that they couldn't download and play purchased PSP games.) But at least ARM TrustZone is a multi-vendor standard.
* By which I exclude the more expensive, mail-order-only products of System76 and the like.
You'll save about 30% actually. But hyperbole is fun.
However - you'll spend far more time fixing that POS Windows with monthly patches that break your apps, applications that corrupt the registry, drivers that aren't compatible, hardware that was poorly designed and tested, and after all this time no one seems to be able to replicate Apple's trackpad design and functionality.
Have fun! Suddenly paying a little more doesn't seem so bad.
Get a
"Signature Edition" - comes with no bloatware.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/pcsignatureedition
There's probably lots of "Windows for Dummies" type of books out there, but something specifically for Mac users is what you're asking for. Actually, a quick search just now uncovered dozens of books and articles for Windows users moving to a Mac, but almost nothing in the other direction. Hmmm? I did discover THIS article, however.
Give em a Mac, if he doesnâ(TM)t want it, give em Linux and tell them to figure out how to run Windows games.
Why would you intentionally use the wrong tool for the job? The answer from the platform evangelists is always simply because it's their platform of choice, which is moronic. People don't give 2 shits about the operating system, they want to run their programs so they will run whatever operating system is required to run those programs.
Whatever your motivation is people like yourself have a clear vested interest in pushing the wrong tool for job.
The great thing about multi-booting is that if you do require multiple operating systems you can do that, you dont' need to develop an attachment to one operating system. But that said pretty much any program you need that runs on Linux also runs on Windows, hence the reason most people just run Windows. It's not that it's a better (technically) operating system or anything like that but it does the fundamental job which is to run the programs the user wants to run. You can have the technically best and most secure operating system in the world but if it doesn't run your programs it is completely useless.
First up gaming laptops have a real problem, overheating to death. Basically whilst they last they last, but once warranty is over don't expect them to last more than say three times the warranty period. They run hot, real hot and system elements will fail. That is a high powered gaming laptop. Reality is for gaming get a good desktop and for school and other stuff get a cheap near disposable notebook. Cheapest notebook pretty much anything running Linux and a range of free open source software will be good enough (for computer learning experience they now have a foot in both games, windows for gaming all it pretty much can sort of be relied on for and Linux for everything else). So desktop to play games and the cheapest possible Linux notebook for school work, some of the work can still be done on the desktop. Just remember to remind them M$ will be spying on them and not to 'you know' in front of the microphone and camera that M$ is monitoring.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
... running Linux. Especially with some desktop trying to imitate macOS (which, nowadays, is all of them, sadly for me, but luckily for you.)
What is "a Windows laptop" anyway.
It's not like the OS and the hardware form a holy bond of matrimony.
And installing an OS, nowadays, is too easy for even a grandma.
You'll be doing fine. :)
Tried making a hackintosh just to see if I could do it, but getting it working properly on a laptop is quite a challenge (you can't swap components out with more compatible components) and I didn't have much success.
... don't get a laptop for any serious gaming (or even casual gaming beyond casual 'facebook type'). laptops that can play the "AAA" titles (e.g. the titles you buy in the store for $50+ each) are expensive as hell and can't be upgraded as games demand more and more out of the hardware over time.
get a desktop.. aka a "tower". custom built, as the prebuilt oem stuff (from dell, hp, etc) these days is either a) overpriced for what you get (gaming systems) or b) full of proprietary shit that makes them hard to add a video card to (the cheaper ones).
see https://www.reddit.com/r/build... for help and configuration ideas within your budget.
alternatively.. if the desired games are not "pc exclusive", get a console instead of a laptop, or even a desktop, especially if budget is tight. you cannot build a desktop (including things a desktop would need such as an operating system, input devices, and monitor) for less than the cost of a console you can hook up to your already-existing televisions. it can't be done. period. already have a ps4 or xbone? great. you're done.
for school work, whatever chromebook or laptop the school uses or recommends is enough.. perfect, even, because it's what *they* use or recommend.
keep school and 'play' separate, as you would also keep work or financial stuff separate from the gaming/play system.
They should know they'll be using Windows.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
You will need to know self control.
1. Don't download and install every update blindly. Not sure you can even do that anymore on Win 10.
2. Don't download and install anything and everything because it sounds cool.
3. Don't assume you can uninstall everything easily.
4. Last and not least, you'll need self control not to throw it out the window when it runs amuck. And it will.
CLONEZILLA IMAGE ON DAY ONE. When its wormed and broken reimage and run updates.
Yeah! And teach them how to sanitize their input before posting to slashdot instead of crying about unicode! Use an ASCII editor dammit!
The number of RFP's sitting on my desk for 7/8 to 10 conversions says you're just wrong when it comes to enterprise applications.
ArcGIS anyone?
"Science is the power of man"
If cost is not an issue, why not just get him any thunderbolt-equipped MacBook and an eGPU box with a GTX970(unofficial) or Radeon RX580 (official support) in it? all I do is reboot into windows and game in bootcamp, then reboot into MacOS for everything else. it's super easy to do and solves all my problems.
Yeah, I agree: do not buy a Windows laptop. If you are a security conscious person, do not buy Windows.
1. He can game on a Mac.
or
2. Get him a System76 (Linux) gaming laptop and he ran run his Windows games inside the WINE program. It is not hard. It is vastly more secure than a Windows laptop and he can still play his games without compromising the whole system.
macs are thin, overpriced and hard to fix he made an good choice and that is just for gameing but for all.
Surface
Greed is the root of all evil.
Usually, the solution is: use a cracked copy (even if you have a DRM-encumbered one).
Not running adequately in Wine is in most cases self-inflicted.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Buy a laptop that's a signature edition. They are listed on Microsoft's store. Note, make sure it says signature edition. This will prevent the manufacturer from installing junkware/spyware on the computer. At least in theory as it would violate their license with Microsoft.
Buy the pro version of Windows 10 or upgrade to it immediately.
Disable Cortana through group policy editor. This should get rid of junk-ware being suggested on the app store every-time he types something in the start menu. Disable all "privacy" features in settings.
Disable all suggestions in settings,
Change the default search settings to something more age appropriate. Bing is terrible for kids.
Most importantly. if possible get a laptop WITHOUT a built in webcam and/or microphone. If it has them built in disable it in device manager. Try uninstalling the drivers if possible.
Get a cheapo clip on webcam with microphone, and a separate microphone when the webcam isn't necessary.
Or wait a few years for the hardware to improve, then run it in virtualization of the Windows system. I provide just that support for Mac users as a policy, to allow them access to Windows specific software.
Last virus I got on windows was about 15 years ago.
I run with a lower priv user and do not do stupid shit. Use a VM for the unsafe things or experimental. You know the exact same things that you do on a mac and linux. My wife also runs in a lower priv user account also and has several hundred games she plays. Only one or two need admin rights. Run with no-script and some sort of ad blocking for surfing (where 99% of the viri come from). Have them run it by you when they want to install something. With an eye on them becoming independent and able to make the judgment call themselves. Make sure all updates are turned on (MS is fixing your computer let them do it or suffer the pain). Security is only as good as the user of the computer. It takes personal discipline with an assist from the computer.
Give the kid what they want. If you want them to not play games with their friends and be the odd one out then give them a mac. Which is what they really want it for. Then let them explain to their friends how you are a douchebag and have no clue. Or let the kid have what they want and enjoy being a kid with their friends.
To the original poster get virtualbox or parallels and put windows on it and give it a spin. Read up on locking it down a bit then show your kid how to do the same. Read up on how to do a restore. Which windows is pretty good at. By default windows ships in a fairly unsecure state. It needs a bit of work to make it usable and 'locked down'. Once you get it in that state it is just as good as the other OS's. It launches the programs you want to use. All of the open source is just as open and available. Learn how to get around the control panel and the registry. Currently in windows 10 the settings are split between the old windows vista/7 way and the newer win8/10 way. So it is a bit painful there and a sore spot.
You are going to get a lot of advice to not do what your kid wants. Ignore them. Give your kid what they want. Eventually if they are actually interested in computers (which may or may not ever happen) look into getting them a mac or show them linux or a MSDN license if that is what they are into. For example my niece wants an apple. Me being a windows guy is helping her mom get her a nice mac. If you get them what they do not want they probably will never develop any interest in it and just resent you.
A lot of that, patches that break apps, applications that corrupt registry, driver issues, were real and extremely annoying issues a few years ago, not so much now. It's like jokes about Harleys leaking oil. It was a real problem. Back in the eighties.
The workstation on which I do business (photo and video post processing) runs Windows. This is because Adobe Creative Suite runs on (a) Windows, or (b) Mac. (It *almost* runs on Wine, but not close enough.)
I switched from Mac to Windows back when Apple and Adobe got into a pissing contest, I believe about that very same trackpad you like so much. I work with a mouse in my right hand and a midi controller with motorized sliders under my left hand. A trackpad does nothing for me. It's just something to accidentally touch when I'm using the keyboard. Typically the first thing I do on a new laptop is disable the damned trackpad.
The computer on which I do everything else, runs Mint.
I've got two elderly, high-end-at-the-time G series Macs parked under my desk. I need to remember to take them to freegeek.
I'm not a Windows fan. The moment Adobe comes out with a native Linux port, it'll be a pox on both your houses. I'll dump the Big Two and never look back. But until then, I have to put up with Windows.
And I have to say truthfully, although I've pushed my current and previous Windows 10 boxes pretty hard, both in the work I do, the ancillary apps I run, and the hardware I attach, I have yet to have a single blue (or whatever color it is this iteration) screen of death. I've never had a hang. I've never had a USB device not be recognized. It Just Works. Windows used to be a heaping pile of garbage, and with one release to another the heap just got taller or shorter. But right now, it appears to be dead nuts stable. Imagine my surprise.
It does a lot of things I find annoying, like constantly begging me to use Edge instead of Firefox, and shamelessly promoting Cortana at every opportunity. But it runs Adobe CC acceptably well. And it hasn't crashed since I "upgraded" to Windows 10.
In summary, that patter is getting a little stale. You might think about harping on lack of privacy and interrupting one's work with "Ask Cortana a question! Go on! You know you want to!" instead. There's still lots of reasons to hate Microsoft. Your arguments would carry more weight if you used ones that were still valid.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
And with the cash you can pay the yearly fees for antivirus, office suites and ransomware.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
For one thing, DRM-free multiplayer games can still require Wine-incompatible anti-cheat software. For another, two players cannot play a multiplayer game together if they are using different games, and if only one member of a circle of local friends plays DRM-free games exclusively, he is unlikely to find other players of the same multiplayer game in the same circle in order to set up a LAN match.
What is this, AOL? This such ridiculous FUD I can't believe it.... the shame!
- Good computing practices are good computing practices, regardless of which platform you use
- Teaching your kids safe computing practices, again, irrespective of platform
- I don't consider MACs significantly more or less secure than PCs running Windows, but I doubt we will ever know...
- How fast were MACs hacked in the last hacking contest?
- If MACs had a 90+% market share, they would be under attack too...
Now, I am in the Windows camp, because that and VMware is what pays my bills, but I am just as likely to recommend MACs, I have been using computers years before either came along. It all depends on use case.
So, for "safe computing" advice, and again, regardless of platform:
- Practice least privilege, so yeah don't run as admin regularly, only when you need to, and only when you initiate it
- Use "defense in depth", don't rely on any one method
- Run a good anti-malware / anti-virus program, possibly more than one, (Malwarebytes, etc.)
- Run an ad-blocker, which has other benefits as well
- Run a good router / gateway / UTM (like Sophos), rather than the one from your ISP or Best Buy so you can filter the Internet for your kids and so forth
- Use a password manager + physical two-factor authentication
- Learn how to properly secure your wireless networks
- Back up your data, with one copy preferably off-site
- Run the latest supported OS you can, keep up to date on patches
- You might want to use a local firewall, especially if it is a laptop
- I am sure others can chime in with additional suggestions....
And separately from this, for this use-case:
- Get a laptop if you must, but for gaming Windows Desktops are still at the top of the food chain
- But, which games are we talking about specifically? MACs can run more than they used to... (again, use case)
- If you have a Windows desktop/laptop, but you like MacOS, run a nice hackintosh, only use Windows for the games if you like
- How about just dual-booting your MAC into Windows? Not perfect, but might do the job just for games
- Lastly, you will save a fair bit of money, I don't think anyone really disputes that MACs are more expensive, unless it is a very high end Windows box
- Plenty of Windows laptops with sexy hardware similar to or rivaling MACs
-RoS
Seriously, it will be torture.
The menus don't float at the top of the screen, they're attached to the window. Closing all the windows will quit the app.
The filenames are case insensitive. This can cause some problems if you're moving them back and forth between the OSX and Windows machines.
Microsoft will try to convince you to get a hotmail account to use your machine. This isn't necessary, but I don't recall how to avoid it. Play around on that screen to keep your accounts local (unless you want them tied together).
Your ad here. Ask me how!
They should know better.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
14 is a kid. He needs a disposable high school laptop, NOT a gaming laptop.
Gaming laptops are expensive, large, heavy, have shit battery life and attract thieves when in the hands of 14 year olds.
An obsolete toughbook might be just the ticket, not disposable, useful as a weapon in case of zombie apocolypse.
Kid likely already has newest console and gameable phone. Let the kid learn to build his own gaming desktop. Cast off desktop parts will be faster than almost any laptop. Find a PC person. You want a Core 2 Duo (or better) motherboard, a Nvidia graphics card, a fist full of RAM and a good power supply (last item to save kid from himself). Let the kid take it from there. (He'll find a better graphics card himself, horse trading etc.)
Software? Nothing will really help. The kid will roast the OS monthly. Obviously avoid the software that comes on it (McAfee/Norton).
Whatever brand you get, run PC decrapifier or similar. All the vendors crapify their machines for profit. None of the demo crapware is worth what you pay for it, much less what it will want in 30 days.
Sit down with him and let the machine get updates, pick your antivirus, install, then image it. Discuss where you can find mostly malware free software, start his mental whitelist.
Consider getting him a portable drive and teaching him to restore windows and backup his data himself.
Never look there. You're happier not knowing. Remember being 14.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
the primary reason he wants Windows instead of a MacBook is gaming
If you want your kid to use the laptop for school and life, but he wants a PC primarily for gaming, the clear solution would be to get him a Mac. If there's one thing I regret about my teenage years, it's the hours I wasted away playing Starcraft. Get your kid a guitar, enroll him in sports, buy him books, get him a chemistry set. There are all sorts of intellectually stimulating activities that aren't a total waste of the human brain.
I know this opinion may not be popular here, but I firmly believe that there are two distinct types of behaviors that both receive the "nerd" label. One is a pursuit of intellectual interests while the other is an obsession with games and fantasies. While there are many individuals who represent an overlap of these two stereotypes to varying degrees, the former traits are commendable while the latter are not. The nerds portrayed in The Big Bang Theory, who fully embody both of these stereotypes, aren't realistic.
Video games, like casino games, are designed to be addictive. Teenagers are especially susceptible to this addiction. The most hilarious thing about the video game critics who try to demonstrate that video games lead to violence is that it doesn't matter. No studies are necessary to demonstrate that they're a waste of time—especially for children, who have such an aptitude for learning.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
2001 called, they want their illusion of Mac being free from viruses and ransomware back.
A popular video conversion app for Mac has suffered a malware infection on one of its mirror servers. If you downloaded HandBrake between 10:30 a.m. EDT on May 2, 2017 and 7:00 p.m. EDT on May 6, 2017, you should follow these instructions to check your Mac for a new variant of the malware OSX.PROTON.
https://www.macobserver.com/ne...
Mac Users Hit by Rare Ransomware Attack, Spread via Transmission BitTorrent App
https://www.intego.com/mac-sec...
Patcher Ransomware Attacks macOS, Encrypts Files Permanently
https://www.intego.com/mac-sec...
etc.
lucm, indeed.
That thing on the right hand side of the mouse, that's called "right click". If you ever value your Mac experience again turn away now...but if by chance your are enticed by the dark side you will wonder how you ever thought 1 mouse button was enough.
I so agree. Hell, that's what I do for myself. Virtualization on my macbook pro works like greased lightning.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Try being nice, no one calls you a retard for posting anonymously.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
They should know not to.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Haven't run into Ultrasearch before. I suggest Everything.exe - forget "searching", it provides find-as-you-type. When opened it shows you a list of every file on your computer, and then filters it down to just those which contain the word-fragments you type, literally as fast as you type them, even when pushing a million files. Usually a couple 3-4-letter sequences will reduce the list to a dozen or so files so you can easily spot the one you want.
Most of my must-have software is cross-platform free/open source:
WinDirStat - lets you figure out exactly where all your disk space went. You *want* to use this before starting to delete files, because you're almost certainly wrong about what's using it.
I like Nightingale for managing music
Calibre for managing ebooks
LibreOffice or OpenOffice - if you don't want to buy an MS Office treadmill subscription just to write the occasional paper
Gimp - photo editing, Photoshop-class, but maybe a bit rougher around the edges
Inkscape - vector graphics, not quite Illustrator class, but does some things even better
Graphcalc - nice 2D/3D graphing calculator
KeePass - keep all your passwords in one securely encrypted *local* password vault. Even comes with a heavily configureable auto-type hotkey option.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Ever notice how they always get viruses
Spare me this tired meme from 20 years ago.
We've got five Windows 10 machines in our family, used by me, my wife and my two kids. I just let Windows Defender do its thing and I haven't seen a virus in years.
boy, i left windows for greener mac pastures in 2009, and never looked back on the SW side (on the HW side is another matter). Having said that, I keep a Windows BootCamp partition for work, but my "windows skillz" are fuzzy, so I do not know if I'll be much help
Here are some basic sugestions in no particular order:
Get Windows 10. As long as he is going to windows, my as well go to the newest one. Do not heed the siren chants of "Downgrade". You know what happens to those sailors who heed the sirens chant...
Use Windows Defender as antivirus, is light on resources, good enough, and updates through the same mechanisms as the rest of the OS. Schedule scans agresively.
Do not let the guy be admin.
Set up some backup solution. Having said that, windows backup solutions do not hold a candle to timemachine, so expect to work your ass out on this one.
Make a full image of the HDD every 4 moths or so.
Configure defrag if you have an HDD. Completely disable defrag if you have an SSD. (it should be done by the OEM, but, check nonetheless)
Windows has a niffty feature (that MacOS does not have) which allows you to mark a connection as "Metered", meaning that is charged per GB, or subjected to Data caps. use accordingly.
Get Windows Pro. Enable Updates. DO NOT DISABLE updates, but Deffer updates.
Do not unistall ie11 and Edge, but HIDE them.
Install CCleaner (is analogous to Onyx or Yasu on OSX), use it bi-monthly. Aaaaaand install Recuva (allows you to recover files even after they are purged from the recycle bin/trash) on day one. You will thank me (eventually).
Restrict telemetry. There are tons of guides on the net on how to do it.
Just like on a mac, install a better compression/decompression uttility than what comes standart from the OS. WinRAR, 7Zip and Winzip are popular choices.
Install VLC (but then again, you do that on OSX too).
Install irfanview as a complement to the preview utilities.
Put at the very least uBlock Origin, EFF privacy Badger and HTTPS everywhere in the browser (browser being chrome or Firefox ESR).
Configure the browser as you would do on a mac from a privacy standpoint.
Windows has very rich parental controls (richer than mac's). Use them as you see fit (I am not a parent, so, aside from knowing they exist, and thart are better than mac's, can't say much more).
Install window on a bootcamp partition of YOUR mac, and make it so that this partition can ALSO be used from your Parallels/Fusion/VirtualBox. Many of the parental controls benefit from a second machine for control and supervision.
Do not trust the parental controls on Windows alone. A determined 14yo looking for porn will defeat them on ANY OS. Do something in the router as well (and he will defeat that too, but at least make it hard, so that he learns something along the way, trust me, I was a 14 YO once, I got my porn [also, talk to him about sex and porn, before "the internet" does the talk]).
Install some office suite. Libreoffice or Office 365, HIS choice (not yours, HIS).
Unistall all the trialware/bloatware, including antivirus trials, office365 trials (unless the guy wants office 365 and you want to save a few bucks), and all other shit. (Macs also have bloatware, we just do not think of it as such, if you do not believe me, check how much space garageband takes on your SSD. Yes, for musicians, garageband may be great, but for nonmusicians, just check how much space it takes).
Win10 has built in PDF readers and PDF generators, but those are crappy. Depending on his usage, that will suffice, or you will have to install something different.
Since the laptop is for gaming, I assume you get a dGPU, update drivers and enable whatever autoupdater is there for graphic drivers.
As soon as you get the laptop out of the box, update all manufacturer utilities.
Enter the Bios (is like a primitive conbination of UEFI/NVRAM/PRAM) and do a quick sanity check.
Install DosBox (good games a
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
OMG what a bunch of shit.
"..if only one member of a circle of local friends plays DRM-free games exclusively.."
Nothing stops the other members from acquiring a DRM free game, even if they also use DRM games.
Other than that they've already blown their game money on buying the popular games, rather than the unpopular games that the "weird kid in that anti-DRM cult" is buying.
He can buy his own windows box with the money he makes working at his after-school job.
I don't have kids, but that seems inefficient, given that an adult earns several times more and has 4x more time available for working. That's like a marriage between a millionaire and an average joe where the millionaire demands the other guy contribute 50/50 to vacations.
Like a parent (usually) brings a kid along for vacations, some reasonable amount of entertainment is something a parent should also pay for. Perhaps offering a cheap laptop, or just giving the money to be put toward a better laptop? Or offering to match the kid's monetary contribution, up to the price of a computer that doesn't totally suck, which incidentally is the same price for Linux or Windows.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Go with a Linux laptop from Dell or a vendor like System76. Ubuntu is super easy and most software is free.
Our 14-year-old
the money he makes working at his after-school job.
In other words, you're making him sit on his hands until age 16 when he becomes legally eligible for an "after-school job." Though many jurisdictions allow 14- and 15-year-olds to work as an employee in occupations free of hazard, at least one duty of most entry-level unskilled jobs is 16+ by law or by insurance policy. In fast food, for example, every position other than cashier is 16+ by law because of hazards involved in food preparation, and cashier is 16+ because the business insurer doesn't think children under 16 can accurately handle money. That leaves newspaper carrier, but with the contraction in print news following a decline in readership and the relatively jobless recovery, grown-ups tend to crowd children out of those few newspaper carrier positions that remain.
In addition, the school's principal needs to issue a work permit for any employee under 18, and as I understand the law of my state, he can refuse to for any reason.
I learned long ago that laptop power supplies are the weakest link. Get a spare power supply immediately and/or a laptop with USB-C charging. Having a lost or damaged power supply means the laptop becomes an expensive brick in minutes or hours. Don't let that happen. I've had that happen and it sucks. The bonus is being able to keep one charger at a desk at home and another in the bag the laptop is carried in. There's no forgetting the charger at home because it never leaves the bag at home. If one gets home and finds the charger was left at school/work/wherever then the laptop still works and the other supply can usually be found the next day.
I don't have a laptop with USB-C charging yet but from what I've read it's almost hard to find a USB-C charger that doesn't "just work". The usual caveats apply, buy a quality charger and with sufficient output for the load. If the the laptop comes with a USB-C 45W charger then getting any USB-C charger that is specified for 45 or more wattage should work. If you don't get a spare right away then at least you know one can be found at most any big box store or ordered online from most anywhere. Even a smaller charger than what comes with it should still allow it to limp along or charge up overnight. Some people have successfully used cell phone chargers to charge up their laptops... S L O W L Y.
I'm also a fan of ThunderBolt. If this is a laptop that will be used for a while then go with ThunderBolt as it grants a much faster interface for drives and such than USB. The newer ThunderBolt 3 uses the same USB-C connector as new phones and USB 3 and gives backward compatibility with USB. There's ThunderBolt adapters and docks for most anything. The laptop will most certainly also have USB ports (type A and/or C) and some video output so it's not like you'll be tied to ThunderBolt, it just gives options.
If this is a gaming laptop then ThunderBolt is the only way I know of to add an external GPU.
That said, I also use MacOS and Windows. I haven't had much difficulty in moving between the two. My laptops have been Apples with some virtual machine software and a Windows virtual machine. I can switch between the two operating systems with just a key combination. If the extra software cost and/or effort doesn't bother you then I suggest that as an option.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
the primary reason he wants Windows instead of a MacBook is gaming.
You install Windows in the VM on a Linux host, not the other way around.
How efficiently do games that tax the GPU work in a virtual machine nowadays?
Setup:
Admin access is necessary for a lot of the more advanced functions on Steam; keep it enabled first time around, if they keep screwing up, wipe and take it away.
Windows 10 is a much better out-of-box setup than windows once was; 75% of the hurdles that will catch you are from shitty manufacturers pre-installing malware, which can effectively be bypassed by wiping and installing with a vanilla copy of Windows 10 from a USB drive (MS has very simple utilities for this, the license is hard-coded in the BIOS so it's automatic). The other 25% are the damage from people who mindlessly click without any awareness of what they're doing, regardless of age.
Buying from reputable manufacturers (HP, Lenovo and Dell's business models, or Microsoft directly) is the safest bet.
Wiping a Windows PC is a rather painless affair nowadays, if shit goes wrong, it doesn't take much as long as you approach things presuming you will wipe the PC in 6-12 months (dropbox/google drive for schoolwork etc.). Windows has changed a lot, it's really a mature and solid OS now (admittedly with an immature layer on top with the app store, but that's easily avoided).
You can get the best of both worlds if you use Parallels to run Windows on your Mac.
get a console
Fan-created game mods do not install on PS4 versions of games. Indie games* also tend to be PC first or PC only far more often than PS4 first or PS4 only.
* As defined by ceoyoyo: video games from studios with no access to venture capital.
What is "a Windows laptop" anyway.
It's not like the OS and the hardware form a holy bond of matrimony.
A Windows laptop is one whose hardware has working Windows drivers. A Linux laptop is one whose hardware has working Linux and X.Org drivers. Many Windows 8 and 10 PCs, especially tablets with a detachable keyboard, have had serious incompatibilities with X11/Linux. And in most parts of the United States, you're unlikely to see a penguin logo on a laptop in a showroom. (Instead, you see the logo of Chrome OS on laptops designed to run one application and one application only: Google Chrome.)
And most of all do not click on ANY link you get in email.
I agree with respect to links in emails that the user isn't expecting to receive. But your shouting of "ANY" connotes an absolute rule. When you sign up on a website, how do you go about confirming the ability of the address associated with your new account to receive emails (especially password reset tickets) at a particular address without clicking the confirmation link in an email?
Gaming on a laptop is like taking a go-cart on a street race
On that note, what's a good Mario Kart clone for a laptop? Is there something better than SuperTuxKart that's widely played?
Virtualization causes a severe slow-down, while Wine is exactly as native as WinXP/7/8/10 (ie, they implement WinAPI atop POSIX and NT respectively).
Optimizedness may differ, but there's no reason one would be markedly faster than the other, at least in principle. This can't be said of full virtualization.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
It isn't all that different. It really depends on the child but you can just give it to your child and see how he will break it.
Actually, Windows 10 isn't that bad unless you have some legacy Windows thing you still need to use. Microsoft Edge is good enough for most uses. You can always install Chrome, too, but I didn't even bother installing Chrome since Edge just works on the websites I visit. The default Antivirus and Firewall apps are decent enough. For school, he/she will get enough help from the school anyway, so he/she will figure out.
Just be prepared to reimage occasionally especially if your child has an habit of installing things in random - probably he/she will notice first as the games will get sluggish (usually laptops comes with some recovery image built-in so it won't be hard). One way is to keep all personal documents (e.g., homework) on an external drive so that the whole thing can be nuked quickly. However, with good hygiene habits (e.g., don't install suspicious-looking or pirated software, don't open every suspicious email, especially attachments) you won't even need to reimage at all. I have two Windows 10 laptops but didn't need to reimage it since I first bought it.
I guess the hard part of parenting has nothing to do with the OS. How will you prevent him/her showing hostile behavior on the net e.g., trolling, harassing? How will you deal with it if he/she ends up being a victim of such behavior? How will you prevent him/her from visiting websites that he/she is not supposed to visit? These things... I think you should make it clear what kind of behavior is unacceptable, since no software will able to solve the 'user' problem anyway.
Gaming? 14 year old? Get a console - any console - and get them used to playing on the console and working on the laptop. Blur that line and near-enough-to-zero work will get done on the (desktop | laptop | tablet | phone) and you'll be shoveling against the tide to get it back.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
That you've made a terrible mistake.
Virtualization causes a severe slow-down
With kvm+gpu passthrough it's now native performance. It's still not completely trivial to set up and needs extra hardware(if you want to run X/Wayland in addition to Windows), but it's doable. Not something I'd recommend, but it's still more pleasant than actually dual booting. Linux for productivity, Windows for games.
-- Linux user #369862
Just buy one of the macbooks and install Windows there, natively, single partition (i.e., leave no MacOS on the machine), with Bootcamp drivers. Fresh install will be totally free of bloatware.
I'm happily typing this on such machine. Bootcamp drivers are not polished to perfection but they generally work. There is no better designed notebook for Windows, otherwise I would have purchased it already. (Price does not matter.)
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
I haven't seen a virus in years.
Then you couldn't possibly have one!
Just install Windows 10 and try it. I moved from mac just under a year ago and my last experience with Windows was Win95 on a machine which mainly ran Linux. Win10 is far more mac-like than I was expecting. While interfaces are not as well thought out and designed as mac everything tends to work very well and it's easy to google what you need if you can't find it.
I can also recommend the Windows Linux subsystem which gives you a full Ubuntu installation running under the Windows kernel which gives a great approximation to the mac terminal.
Windows and Mac are the same, the only difference is you will pay 1/2 for a Windows laptop.
There exist Windows laptops that are 1/2 the price of Apple laptops. Apple target a pretty narrow band, however within that band, Windows laptops are a comparable price.
I'm not really fond of macs (have one for work, wouldn't buy one myself) but if you compare spec numbers, plus build quality, weight, size, screen quality and battery life, Macs are pretty comparable to PCs. It varies up and down a bit but it's not that big.
If you only compare CPU speed, RAM and storage, then you're not comparing specs, you're comparing a subset of specs. If those are the only specs that matter to you then that's fine and a PC is the better choice. Or, if you want something of the sort that Apple simply don't offer, then a PC is the better choice. If you're in the market for a mid to high end laptop with a lowish weight for the specs, then Apple are in the running price wise.
Personally if I were currently in the market for a laptop of that sort I'd go for a Zenbook or a Lenovo Carbon X1.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
linux mint + steam
I agree. Mod +1
As an adult you may have 4 times the amount of available hours to work but the teens wages are 100% his own. After taxes and bills you may have 5% left. He'll still have most of it, (what he didn't spend on bootlegged liquor) , to spend on a laptop, and have learned some money management and responsibilities in the meantime. At min. Wage in Canada a teen could make enough to buy a high end desktop after 100hours of work. It would take me 3 months to scrape enough together without altering my lifestyle to save up for his laptop. Fuck that.
Most PC owners have these things called "screwdrivers".
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
On a Mac no one is using the desktop.
The windows of various applications are always covering it.
The root directory in a Mac is /
Just like on any unix.
The 'desktop' is a folder in your home directory.
No idea where you got your nonsense from.
You can put multiple copies of the same app or file in multiple folders/home screens, or even create links to two completely different folders to each other so you can quickly navigate between the two even though their paths are completely different. ...
Windows can only create real links as super user, otherwise they are just aliases. Multiple copies of the same app are no problem for OS X, why should it? They are just files
OS X/iOS lacks this abstraction layer (except as an advanced topic - aliases)
That is nonsense. You can have unix links and OS X finder aliases, just like on Windows.
Basically everything you write is nonsense and makes clear you don't know how a computer works.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
We have Windows machines in the house, also mostly for gaming. Really, it's not that dramatic. My list for you:
- Don't visit dodgy sites offering free games. As long as you install games and DLC from reputable sources, viruses and adware really aren't a problem. Windows Defender is all the defense you need.
- To be safe, figure out how to restore the machine to its factory defaults. My kids both have Alienware machines, and they offer an option to nuke-and-restore. If your child goes off and installs all sorts of awful stuff, and does manage to fill the machine with adware - having everything erased is (a) safe and (b) a really good lesson.
- If you value your (theoretical) privacy, follow any of the zillion online guides for turning off the Windows 10 telemetry.
Really, that's it. You will find some of the UI differences really annoying (I go the other way - using a Mac is really annoying), but that's small stuff...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
It's been a while since I ran a Windows natively (I now do Linux with Windows in a Virtual Machine), but way back then, I used to use a "clone" tool to make a perfect copy of the hard drive.
Get a big external drive and use a tool like Clonezilla, or Partition Magic (if that's still around) and clone the hard drive once to that external drive before you ever use it. (This lets you reset the machine to "new").
Then get the machine set up "just so", installing all the software, security stuff, settings you like, and then make a clone of that. Then when the machine gets all crufted up, restore from your cloned image, do updates, install new security software, etc., and clone that again. Rinse and repeat.
Installing Windows from scratch and getting all your stuff set up the way you want to takes hours and hours. Just do it once, clone that, and then you have a nice starting point for the next time.
I'm a hardcore GNU/Linux user for over two decades now. Only recently have I had to deal with Windows again (coding a cross platform desktop client), and although the interface is clunky and the continued lack of a usable package manager is a pain you also don't have to deal with all the stupid hand holding and bizarre restrictions OS X forces on you. As far as antivirus and security, just go with something free if you're worried and keep a backup schedule like you should with any OS. That's really all there is to it.
Why would i buy a copy of, say, assisns creed just to follow the same old story path that everyone else who had the games has followed. I'll stick to Rimworld where you never know when your colonists are going to be eaten alive by a rabid pack of squirrels or your base will be set on fire by some angry raiders, blinding your herd of Muffalo.
Mainstream games, in general, are crap.
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
I have a Macbook Air i do everything on. And anything that won't run on MacOS i run through a Windows machine i built late last year. Teamviewer and Steam Streaming are a godsend
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
I bought my first iPhone at 16 when i asked my parents for a smartphone and got a $50 Nokia instead. If they really want it, make the bastards work for it!
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
The URL to download Ubuntu
Or slashdor culd atualy fix their code, It's 2017, is unicode support realy that hard to implement (asking as a non developer)
Or buy a cheap boring laptop for moving around, and a fancy gaming PC at home. That may keep the kid home every now and then.
Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities.
Aristotele
I have one issue with your list (otherwise it's great) Winamp while it is great, it seems abandond at last update was in 2014 an according to this post The company does not seem commitrid.
You can actually get a respectable number of games with Steam on Linux now, too. Many more than back in the Loki games days (Anyone remember them?) I still miss Tribes 2, though.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
1: Remote access software. My primary recommendation is TeamViewer. It's basically idiot proof remote access.
2: 3rd Party AV. Defender is good, but it's fully integrated into the OS. That can be both helpful AND a nasty liability. I'd trust a 3rd Party AV more. Suggestions. BitDefender, WebRoot, Avast
3: Once everything is loaded up, generate a system image on an external HD or backup drive. If you want to use the in-built backup, fine. If you want to use something like Acronis True Image or Macrium reflect. If you're more technically minded, you could do Clonezilla.
4: 2 External Hard Drives. One for regular backups, one for the initial "Oh Shit" backup.
5: Make sure when you set up the initial user on the machine, it's as a LOCAL user, not one of the Microsoft-tied accounts.
6: Your son's account should be a REGULAR USER and he shouldn't know the admin account logon.
7: Firefox browser, + Ghostery + Adblock and/or a decent hosts file (Google "Windows Host file for ad blocking")
8: A password manager (to which you have the root/master/admin password to the database). This way, if you DO have to reload everything, you aren't having to recover accounts or start new ones because you can't remember the passwords. Keep a copy of the database on your "Oh Shit" backup. Grab a copy every couple months.
9: LONGEST POSSIBLE WARRANTY YOU CAN BUY.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Assuming you're the administrator, set up your own account with Admin rights, then give the kid a standard user account with no Admin rights. Any new app installation will require your approval, meaning you can say no to any crapware or viruses that want to install themselves to the system. It's possible that the user account could be corrupted, but as Admin you'll be able to go in, back up his files, nuke the account, create a new account, and restore his files to that.
(this is not a
just say no, no windows pc for gaming. save yourself the miserable hours spend on fixing the inevitable mess that WILL happen.
tell them - want to play games? you can have a ps4/switch/xbox.
i know no windows pc is ever getting into my house, i don't need all the drama that comes with it in my life.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
The Roblox site says Mac is supported.
I don't know much about it; what doesn't work?
I'm also interested to join my kids.
https://www.roblox.com/#Roblox...
The great thing about Windows is that it will do exactly what you tell it to do.
Does it? That's great, but when I deal with Windows I usually have a hard time finding a way to tell it to do stuff to begin with.
It's probably down to being used to a Terminal in Linux and all my patterns go like "open a command line, type a bunch of commands for a few minutes, job done", but having to google how to enable ping responses in Windows doesn't help its case.
My default policy on Windows is to avoid it; because if I don't I have to put too much work in before I can do any work. And it's not like once I put that work in I'm all set. I'll have to do that on a regular basis. I do not want to put even more work and capital into various Microsoft certification programs either - although feedback is that they do help reduce all that pre-work a lot.
If I were just playing games I probably wouldn't mind Windows because each game is like its own distro and all I do is click an icon to boot it up, but beyond that... no thanks.
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
2001, huh? What's really sad is that this is the honest truth. Macs just don't get spyware. Yes, it is "technically" possible to infect a mac, but it is a very rare occurrence, indeed. I've been in computer repair for the last 20 years, and the total number of macs I have ever seen with some sort of virus or spyware/malware is less than 5. I can actually remember each one individually. On the other hand, I couldn't begin to count the number of Windows PCs I've cleaned up with malware over the last two decades. It's staggering, on the order of 10,000:1 ratio. Of the 4 I have personally witnessed, as well as the handful or so I've heard about through colleagues, not a single one was a "drive-by" infection. They were ALL from a user who downloaded a questionable file and opened it, then put in their admin password to complete the infection. Contrast that with the 100's seen every month from Windows users who swear that they did nothing but check their email and are now knee deep in an infection. My kids use an iMac to play games and do homework. Not because I'm an elitist (the iMac is 9 years old), but because I don't want to spend any more time fixing their computers. In the last 4 years, I have never once had to fix a virus issue on their PC. Trust me, they've tried. I can see the infectious EXE's in the download folder, but I've stopped even clearing those out because they can't do any harm. Regardless of the scary stories you read here on slashdot, the simple fact is Mac malware just isn't an issue. Windows malware is a daily occurrence.
If you can wait a few months, and don't mind spending Apple Dollar$, how about using the new external GPU?
An added advantage could be - lock the GPU gadget in a closet, and give it out for good behavior.
Meanwhile, the Mac laptop itself can be used continuously for normal school purposes.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/...
look for one with a trackpad you are comfortable with. the vast majority of windows laptops i have used dont even come close to the usability that apples trackpads have.
Or buy a $20 mouse like 99% of sane users.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Depends on your definition of DRM-free...
Pro mainly gives you a few things that are useful for business, like Group Policy and Domain Joining.
And better control of the updates - even if still not absolute control
Honestly, why worry about any of this at all? Let your son tell you what he wants and let him figure out all this stuff. Maybe give him a brief talking about web security and maybe do something to isolate him from infecting other devices on your home network, but other than that step back and let the kid do his thing. Will he screw up and get viruses? Sure. Will he have to figure out drivers and such? Sure. Will he need to figure out what programs he wants and doesn't want? Sure. That's how he learns.
In other words, think back: how did you become I savvy computer user? I know for me, my parents knew jack all about computers and I was the one learning these things by trial and error.
I know it can be painful to step back and watch people make mistakes when you now have the knowledge to avoid them, but mistakes are an amazing way for people to learn.
give him a macbook for real work and a win10 desktop for games. A desktop is still far better for games. I am a Linux user since many years and I have changed my PC this spring. I boot on windows around once every 2 month for a specific application that my entreprise use to manage absences. The experience is awful. I can not use the computer during the lengthy upgrades during which I can not even see what is happening. I get insane notification that I should install software I have never heard of to keep up to date other unknown software. The documentation is shit: after 20 minutes of insane PR, no way to know how to start the proposed installation later if I refuse to do it now. 2 computers will open his mind on the differences and he will be able to work when win10 is updating.
Do you not recommend it because it's difficult to setup? I'm interested because I hate dual booting. I only use windows for my steam games (mainly fallout and mod manager to run fallout.)
A quick google showed this guide
https://forum.level1techs.com/...
Does that look pretty accurate? Looks like the extra hardware is the extra gpu needed - it also says you need an extra mouse and keyboard which makes sense and is trivial.
If the extra gpu is correct, I can probably just get the cheapest one that supports the virtualization since the heavy gpu will most likely be dedicated to gaming.
First up gaming laptops have a real problem, overheating to death.
Crap and uncared for gaming laptops have a history of overheating. Buy quality and as long as you clear the dust* out of it every 6 or so months It'll last years. The biggest problem is that if you buy one with a chunky GPU, it'll be outdated in no time. For gaming the desktop still rules as you have fewer overheating issues (poorly designed airflow + dust* still equals overheating) because you can buy a mid-range GPU and replace it when it gets a little long in the tooth.
* dust is mostly dead skin flakes.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
This. Just make him a standard user, and then periodically run updates and scans (Malwarebytes & Defender should be plenty) with your admin account. You can try to tell him that he shouldn't just try to download random crap, or to not visit streaming pirate anime sites, but if he's like my teens that won't get fully absorbed. Just keep his user locked down.
Ever notice how they always get viruses
Spare me this tired meme from 20 years ago.
We've got five Windows 10 machines in our family, used by me, my wife and my two kids. I just let Windows Defender do its thing and I haven't seen a virus in years.
This has been the case for years. Mac OS is no more or less secure than Windows since XP SP2. The major cause of insecurity remains the user and almost all Windows malware is now user installed and its worse for the Mac because the Mac user believes it's automagically protected (and the cure for Malware on a Mac is to buy a new Mac*).
Also remember that almost all malware this day and age is intentionally non-destructive. They've taken a leaf from microbiology and if a virus kills its host, it cant propagate and send spam, DDOS or mine Bitcoin.
* OK, you could re-install OSX but having to do this for simple problems is why I stopped doing Mac support over a decade ago.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Seriously, keep that on. If anything goes wrong with the laptop you can always revert to previous state.
And you are going to buy it? What about telling the boy to earn it?
People click stuff. Using non administrative accounts for day to day use is the best advice I can give anyone. (Though, I actually do use an administrative one... ). The Windows UAC prompt system is actually pretty good, but only if people actually understand them, and most people don't.
I'm leaning towards anti-malware oriented DNS servers too, e.g. OpenDNS, but that's not a Windows specific thing.
....figure out what you're going to do with that 20%-30% upcharge you're not spending?
-Styopa
If possible, get something without Windows 10.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
He can buy his own windows box with the money he makes working at his after-school job.
I don't have kids, but that seems inefficient, given that an adult earns several times more and has 4x more time available for working. That's like a marriage between a millionaire and an average joe where the millionaire demands the other guy contribute 50/50 to vacations.
Like a parent (usually) brings a kid along for vacations, some reasonable amount of entertainment is something a parent should also pay for. Perhaps offering a cheap laptop, or just giving the money to be put toward a better laptop? Or offering to match the kid's monetary contribution, up to the price of a computer that doesn't totally suck, which incidentally is the same price for Linux or Windows.
I bought my own computer with my own wages. The first was a gift - not from my parents - to both myself and my sibling; but the next I bought myself for about $3300 in total (1997). Still have it. Most don't spend that much on a system any more. My parent's policy was if we wanted stuff (cars, toys, etc) we generally had to buy them ourselves; birthday/Christmas we got a number of toys but not typically anything expensive (>$100 per item). It's a good policy.
And yes - the kid should contribute. Why? He'll treat it better. And yes, when the time is right my kids will have to do the same.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
First, if you do buy a system try System76 or another Linux-oriented vendor/device. Install Ubuntu, turn on `ufw` and install `fail2ban` so that it's secure from the outside. Then give them a Steam account with Valve for gaming. The number of titles won't be as expansive as on Windows, but you'll (a) be more secure, and (b) save a butt load of money, and worse case you can install Windows in a VM (VMware, Virtualbox, etc) and run titles from there, via KVM hypervisor, or simply dual boot it.
Second, as far as Windows goes - you have to be extremely careful of which *version* of Windows you get. There's 10+ skews of Windows 10; not all are good for gaming. You'll probably need to the more expensive version ($200-$400 for the Windows license alone). Then see the rest of the comments here about securing the Windows system - though AV tends to get in the way of performance for gaming, and often you need an admin account b/c of the games doing special things with the hardware a normal user can't do...yeah. It sucks.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
"Windows laptops are a comparable price." I understand and agree with your general statements about the need to compare apples to apples (pun intended). However, I simply disagree that Apple apples and Windows apples sell for anything close to the same price. If you go via the traditional rip-off sales channels, IE Best Buy and the Apple store or the Microsoft store, perhaps they are closer. However, If you go via newegg, tigerdirect, amazon or any of the multitude of other slaes channels from my experience you can find Microsoft equipment that has equivalent "spec numbers, plus build quality, weight, size, screen quality and battery life" etc etc etc for a fraction of the price of Apple equipment.
I've been in this exact situation recently. I regularly go back and forth between macbook pros, microsoft-oriented work laptops, and microsoft-oriented gaming laptops, and hacking-project chromebooks.
I am sure there are exceptions anyone can point to but as a general observation data point from someone who has "been there":
Apple laptops are a known, very high quality, quantity. They don't always have the features you want-- top-of-the-market GPU capability and larger screens is mine, but what Apple does have, they do very well. If apple laptops do deliver everything you really need, then get one, even if you put VMware/Parallels/Other/Bootcamp of it to get solid MS compatibility for everything but high end games. Even if you have to put up with silly dongles.
High-end PC laptops have very good specs but, in general, come with more risks. The more cutting edge features you buy the less likely it is you're going to get good, long term support, and the more likely that you're going to develop some issue a few years out that never showed up in the manufacturer's time-limited testing. The one exception to this may be the MS Surface Pros.
In the midrange prices from reputable manufacturers, support is more predictable, but there's often some performance compromise being made-- you can discover too late that your great price came at the cost of a certain component that's dragging the rest of the system down. Could be wrong CPU for your workload, poor cooling, sub-par screen, KB placement, loud fans, slow HD, inadequate GPU cooling, etc.. It's hard to know what compromise may affect you without doing a lot of review research, and the best, most reliable reviews will be for product that has been out 6+ months, and you may be tempted to get "the latest new model" instead. It's a balancing act.
At the low end you can find some really great values in PCs laptop. If these fit your performance envelope you can get something that's cheap and looks good too.
The above is just on the hardware side. On the software side it goes without saying that there will be a learning curve and a host of annoyances, particularly around driver behavior coming out of sleep mode & hibernation, privacy, and possibly juggling multiple possible audio inputs and outputs.
On a laptop?
Where changing the GPU is mostly impossible?
What does he want to play?
Enemy territory?
Turn off indexing (right click the drive eg C:, select properties, uncheck the box at the bottom that says 'Allow files...').
Install Malware bytes.
Install a free always-on AV (using Bitdefender now, but have used others in the past).
Google 'Win 10 services disable performance' or 'Win 10 services disable for gaming' and then follow it.
Configure updates to always install.
Done.
I know you stated you don't need recommendations on the laptop itself, but why not setup bootcamp on a Macbook? I have one setup today and game on it just fine. When I just want to use it casually, I boot into the OSX side. It might help you with less troubleshooting to do if they are only using Windows to game. If you are worried about a non-mac gaming laptop overheating (which I have rarely seen) just get a cooling pad with fans. Otherwise, just make sure there isn't crap surrounding the laptop and not letting it ventilate properly.
Someone else mentioned it but Thurott's guide will be decent. Wipe whatever system you get and start from stratch. Install latest drivers and firmware. Use ninite.com to easily install common applications. Chrome, notepad++, Teamviewer, Skype, 7zip, VLC, Java, and CutePDF are typical things I have installed from there for everyone. Steam is also on there to install. Sophos Home (setup an account) is what I use. Free and decently secure. It can alert you about possible infections, etc. You can also use it on your current Macs. Sign up for Office 365 Home if you haven't already. $100/yr for latest versions of office and up to 5 people/accounts can have their own installations. Everyone gets 1TB of OneDrive storage as well. If not yet already setup, have them use a password manager like Lastpass.
Here's the thing. On a mac, apple has made decisions as to how things will be paired, work together, and generally function as a whole. There's user-level customization, of course, but the inner workings are pretty well configured for you.
On a Linux box, it's a good bet that nothing works at all until you configure it from scratch. Whether it's "make"ing / compiling programs, or just weeding through conf files, there's a world to learn.
Windows is neither.
By default, windows is configured to work in a certain way, but you're able to, easily within the GUI, change the way it works.
If mac is the independent consultant that knows what it's doing from the start, and Linux is the in-house employee that you can train to do anything, then windows is the independent contractor that will do, very well, what you tell it to do. And if you don't provide any direction, it'll only do what it thinks might work.
With a windows machine, you're expected (by me) to spend a half-day clicking through every setting and making a decision for each checkbox. There are about four hundred tiny decisions to make. It's a process, not a puzzle, and it's totally worth doing.
We're talking about settings like disabling Bluetooth because you don't use it. Removing permissions that you don't want apps to have. Choosing default behaviours at every turn. This is true for major software too -- generally takes me an hour to configure something like photoshop, or open office, or ultraedit. Ok, two hours for ultraedit, but that's my primary tool.
And don't think it starts with the control panel. It starts way sooner. Even if you aren't selecting the hardware (balancing bottlenecks, as I like to say), you'll still want to decide which storage device houses which files. OS files, temp files, swap files, work files, media files, personal files.
Do it right and the system speeds along smoothly forever. Do it wrong, and it can certainly eat itself alive. But I've done well. My '98 machine lasted 9 years as my primary work machine, my vista machine lasted 10 years, and would have kept going had IE9 not been its limit.
Funny story. I just built a windows 10 machine. With the OS and all background-accessed files (and triple-a games) on the m.2 drive, user-triggered access to my work and applications (and normal games) on the sata ssd, and the directly-accessed files like media and backups on the large spinning hdd, I routinely (three-ish time a day) wind up waiting about 12 seconds to save a text file to my sata ssd!
It's a six thousand dollar workstation, and I'm waiting 12 seconds to save a 10KB text file to an SSD drive. It reminds me of thirty years ago with a floppy drive, so it makes me nostalgic.
If you haven't followed along closely, my issue is actually by design. I've configured my three storage systems based on access, and so if I don't access work files for a while, the drive goes to sleep, and I get to wait 12 seconds for it to wake up.
This is the perfect example of going through the settings that I mentioned before. This is easily changed by adjusting the sleep behaviour of the storage systems in windows. I could make the drive not sleep so quickly, or at all -- which is really fine for a desktop ssd especially -- but I like it this way. I like knowing that most of the time most of my machine is asleep doing nothing.
So, that's the lesson. With windows, it's your choice, for everything, and every choice is easily specified if you spend the hours going through every "properties" and "settings" menu. Do it once, then never again. You'll be able to quickly disable all of the stuff that windows does by default that simply doesn't apply to you. You can always change your mind later.
If your child has a .edu email address, they can get office free.
https://products.office.com/en...
For hardware, I have some thoughts.
I just bought my daughter (13) a used Surface Pro 4. She loves to draw, and the touch+pen were killer features for her. She takes care of her kit, and it's in a case so I don't worry about her breaking it.
I, on the other hand, am a klutz. If it were for me I'd buy something that could take more physical abuse. I used to have a Lenovo W520 and W540. I loved those, with the exception of their weight, and would probably look in that family.
Back to Software, whatever browser you choose, get an adblocker. Ad Networks are the primary distribution mechanism for malware now.
Fourteen is old enough to teach them to use a password keeper, and keep the file on dropbox or onedrive. Build that habit now and their future self will thank you.
Create a personal email, e.g. deathlord982 at somedomain.com email and a realname email now. Teach them to use the personal for fun stuff and realname for School stuff. Separating fun and work is a good habit to get into now too.
Teach them to put a post-it over the webcam. Yes, that's a thing.
Other Free software worth getting:
Gimp, Inkscape, VLC, and Paint.Net
You'll probably want the Steam and Origin clients, Discord, and TeamSpeak.
If you want to teach them 3d modeling, ZBrush and AutoDesk Fusion 360 are amazing. I think that both are free for hobbyists.
Good luck.
Until you compare it to McOS.
After using both every single day, I can say without hesitation that you have no idea what you're talking about.
And it's "macOS", idiot.
Frankly, I may be going back to Windows myself as a Mac guy of 5+ years.
I use both every single day, and I cannot understand that sentiment one bit.
Decide who will solve inevitable problems in advance - yourself, your son, geek squad, etc. Windows is not like OSX/ChromeOS - it routinely gets borked by driver updates, registry corruption, mysterious hangs/slowdowns... I have a gaming laptop myself for Oculus, but keep a Chromebook for daily productivity, as something on Windows is likely to broken or laggy just when I need to send an urgent e-mail.
2001 called, they want their illusion of Mac being free from viruses and ransomware back.
A popular video conversion app for Mac has suffered a malware infection on one of its mirror servers. If you downloaded HandBrake between 10:30 a.m. EDT on May 2, 2017 and 7:00 p.m. EDT on May 6, 2017, you should follow these instructions to check your Mac for a new variant of the malware OSX.PROTON.
https://www.macobserver.com/ne...
Mac Users Hit by Rare Ransomware Attack, Spread via Transmission BitTorrent App
https://www.intego.com/mac-sec...
Patcher Ransomware Attacks macOS, Encrypts Files Permanently
https://www.intego.com/mac-sec...
etc.
Now, let's compare that list to Windows, shall we?
Regardless of the scary stories you read here on slashdot, the simple fact is Mac malware just isn't an issue. Windows malware is a daily occurrence.
Having used Macs continuously since 1984, and Windows continuously since 1989, I can verify that Parent speaks the truth.
I have never run anti-anything on my Macs, and have never suffered an infection. Not once.
But I have had to clean up both my and friends' Windows machines (sometimes with great difficulty) multiple times, DESPITE all of them running at least one A/V suite, if not multiple ones.
Get the machine set up more or less the way you want it, not counting software that you expect to be updating regularly, and then create a disk image.
I haven't used the most recent versions of window enough to know for sure, but from my experience Window will break down over time. Installing and uninstalling one program after another will cause registry bloat that is very difficult to manage. Combine that with viruses, etc, and you've got the makings for having to do a complete wipe and reinstall of your OS once every one or two years.
Before I switched to a Mac myself, that's basically what I did. I set up the base OS more or less the way I liked it, install updates, removed any shovelware, installed the stuff I wanted, and then imaged the disk and set the image aside in a safe place.
If you have a sufficiently large hard drive, you can partition the drive, and then image the main partition onto a file on the 2nd partition, making it slightly more convenient for you.
I know recent versions of windows have a built in "factory reset" option, but that still leaves you redoing all the updates, software installation, etc.
Also, the UI will take getting used to. Windows apps are amazingly inconsistent, for example throwing menus almost anywhere, or using those ridiculous ribbon things, etc. There is zero consistency between how different applications function, even the ones built into the OS, so you can't rely on general consistency to guide you the way you can with OSX.
There are also a LOT of wierd quirks in Windows, such as when it "helpfully" locks write permissions on random files it thinks shouldn't be written to anymore, but that's for you to discover.
This is great, I only have a few things to add:
Most gaming laptops have a button that will allow you to turn off the trackpad.
Upgrade to Windows Pro, you can turn off most the suggestions, notifications, and ads that are now embedded in Windows.
You should be able to get a pretty decent machine for about $1000 that will play all games.
Don't get a 4k screen, 1080p is plenty. More will only require more, hotter, hardware.
Boot Camp gives a penalty of being offline for two minutes, which interrupts your music stream and your text or voice chat, as well as having to sign into all your websites again because your browser session ended when you restarted your computer.
For the benefit of others considering Boot Camp, please answer the following question: How do I cut and paste between applications running in different operating systems in Boot Camp? Or if this is not possible, what should I do instead of cut and paste for such a situation?
But unlike Windows, Dumb Mac users don't need to know anybody, they can still use their Mar.
That is an oft-repeated urban legend. Mac forums indicate otherwise.
Wait, I'll walk that back this far: If all you're doing is content consumption, you probably don't need to know a technically savvy person. But real work and real problems go hand in hand. At that point you either know a Mac wizard, or become one.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The biggest problems that are remaining on Windows are 1) Dumb users (like on Mac) and 2) MS Spyware (but I bet this also happens on Mac)
But unlike Mac, Dumb Windows users usually knows a tech savvy Windows user
Sigh. As someone on the hook for systems administration for my entire extended family, my wife's extended family, my wife's friends, my wife's friends' friends, yeah Dumb Windows users usually know a tech savvy Windows user, which would be me. Windows 10 still has some ugly legacy from that horrible Windows 8, which means among other things that systems administration tools are in more than one place, so even tech savvy Windows 7 users have some things to relearn. (And I'd really like to be alone just for a few minutes with the guy who thought that was a good idea. With the cameras turned off.)
As a former Mac user, I'd say that tech savvy Mac users aren't too hard to come by. A lot of things can be puzzled out by someone with Unix experience and access to the internet. But battle scarred veterans of various Windows debacles are probably easier to come by.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
This is great, I only have a few things to add:
Most gaming laptops have a button that will allow you to turn off the trackpad.
Upgrade to Windows Pro, you can turn off most the suggestions, notifications, and ads that are now embedded in Windows.
You should be able to get a pretty decent machine for about $1000 that will play all games.
Don't get a 4k screen, 1080p is plenty. More will only require more, hotter, hardware.
All good suggestions, most especially the second one, of which I WAS NOT AWARE. I know what *I* will be doing this weekend! (Evil laugh.)
(I only run Windows Pro on my machines and my family's machines. In my experience, networking on the Home editions tends to be wonky, and higher than Pro is generally only for bragging rights. And slowing down your computer.)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Period
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
There is one major difference: malware. Whether you want to believe its due to the larger market share or if you want to blindly believe that Windows is somehow inherently less secure than any other OS for "reasons," there's no escaping the fact that most malware is written for Windows.
And no a gaming laptop isn't nonsense. Its certainly not going to be good enough if you want to be a top tier gamer, but as long as you have an external mouse and sufficient hardware specs, laptops are perfectly usable as gaming machines. It takes some adjusting if you're used to a desktop with detached screen/keyboard of course but I've done it before and its not actually terrible after you've given yourself that adjustment period.
The great thing about Windows is that it will do exactly what you tell it to do.
Not anymore. MS took a look at Apple and wondered why they were so popular, and decided the solution was to take all of the worst aspects of Mac and jam them into Win10, and then add a few more terrible aspects of their own.
I mean its certainly better than the Metro disaster, but the main reason I've always hated Apple products is because they insist you do things exactly one way and if you don't like it then tough beans. Not that I was ever one to customize Windows all that much but the customizations I did do, I certainly did with purpose. And now MS is slowing wandering towards the "we know better than you" mentality that Apple has always espoused.
The best game of all is the one where you learn *Nix; how to use how to administer it, how to program, compile, debug, etc. If you get him a non-apple computer, best put one together with him, or buy a system, and put a Unix or GNU/Linux on it, and teach him something useful. If you're planning to get him a toy, why not just get a toy computer, like a PlayCube or GameBox or whatever?
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
You haven't seen a virus in years... luck, maybe, or you have one and don't know it and your computer is one of millions ensnared in a spam-producing bot-net or your computer is quietly converting electricity you paid for using computer power you paid for into someone else's cryptocurrency, or... or the hackers have simply grown bored hacking into that which is so trivial to hack into, and moved on to more interesting challenges.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
So, just demonstrate being an idiot, instead? (You fucked up "you're")
If you have macro virii in TRUSTED network locations, you've already failed and not Words fault. By default, you can't run that shit.
Dude, the sooner you stop getting butthurt over your fucking religion the happier you'll be.
I wanted to replace my kid's laptop with Linux
The Roblox site says Mac is supported.
I don't know much about it; what doesn't work?
thereitis wants to run the game on a PC running Linux, not on a Mac.
if you are doing an apples-to-apples comparison on the hardware
I think you should be doing an Apple-to-Windows comparison, personally.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
The result of such will be that the user will run into third-party digital restrictions management and anti-cheat software that explicitly forbids use of Wine.
Many games sold on Steam lack a port to Linux. When a particular game neither is ported to Linux or works in Wine, the choices are either A. use Windows in a VM on a PC with two GPUs (one for each OS) and a CPU with VT-d (to forward the guest OS's GPU commands to the second GPU) or B. give up.
Exactly. My son already has a Mac but I want to move away from MacOS. When his computer dies or becomes obsolete, my hope was to get him onto Linux. But the sticking point right now is lack of Roblox support.
I have never run anti-anything on my Macs, and have never suffered an infection. Not once.
How do you know? You're like someone who says he has never been tested for AIDS so he doesn't have AIDS.
Odds are that for years you've been part of multiple spam or DDOS botnets. That's people like you who make those botnets possible.
lucm, indeed.
Take the iPad out of your rectum and read the thread again. The question is not "is Windows more secure than OSX", the question is "is OSX free from malware"
lucm, indeed.
Good luck running any games or other software as a non-admin. Even Photoshop won't run properly.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
60th trimester abortion!
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Depends where you live and when. In most 'burbs, dust is mostly dried up animal (dog and cat) shit, blowing in the wind.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
For definitions of 'smart and well adjusted' that amount to 'sheltered and incapable'. 14 is not 5.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
As a lifelong Windows user (and professional designer in the higher education tech support world), my advice is to relax and ignore all the Linux/virtualization/dual boot blather. They're all correct to one degree or another (many are spot on) but unless your son is or plans to be a hardcore geek none of it is useful for you. Lets' talk operating systems first. Despite a well-earned but obsolete reputation for instability, Windows is the preferred OS for gaming and many other pursuits. Windows 10 has a robust firewall, and Windows Defender is excellent virus protection and security. Both are on by default with new software. Defender is so good that it is our recommended solution, so don't pay extra for a third party app. Assuming you purchase a new machine with preloaded software, he will have no problem setting it up and learning the basics if he follows the prompts and takes the tutorials. The documentation is pretty good, some is excellent, and can be consumed in small bites. This is a pretty good round up of advice: https://www.windowscentral.com... Many of our students (we provide tech support to more than 20,000 undergrad and grad students) successfully use a program like Boot Camp to run Windows on their Mac. Generally, though, it's not a serious option for our gamers, whose concern is performance. Our top-end gamersâ(TM) go-to machine is some sort of Windows 10 desktop, with maxed CPU, double clocked, hela RAM, mega cooling (often liquid), large, fast monitor, wired internet connection. I doubt there are any laptops at any price that can perform as well as even a modestly equipped desktop. If a laptop is your preferred route, a cooling stand is an inexpensive and worthwhile addition. There's a good variety of very capable machines at much less than you'd pay for a similarly equipped Mac. The newer high-end MS Surface laptops get good reviews from our students, and so do the Asus and Alienware boxes. Canned air (I.e, DustOff) and a PC cleaning tool (OXO makes a great one) for dust removal are highly recommended). Hope that helps.
I seriously doubt that. You think only jobless kids with an allowance play games?
But there is no need to label people buying non DRM games as a "cult", unless you are being paid to do so. Is that why you are also promoting the tracking of people across the Internet?
Is that why you are also promoting the tracking of people across the Internet?
I'm not promoting it as much as trying to see why phozz bare feels justified in not caring that he is being tracked.
ObTopic: Windows 10 tracks you. Even on the lowest telemetry settings available in Windows 10 Home, Windows sends a list of every application and device driver on your machine to Microsoft.
Yeah, bullshit. When the last Windows 10 major update came through about six months ago I was greeted with three blank screens instead of a login prompt. Windows 10 had stopped supporting my Nvidia hardware. Eventually I got the machine booted up in Safe Mode with Networking, downloaded and installed the video drivers from Nvidia's web site and was able to start working again.
What, seriously? You were actually running the driver that happens to come with the OS? Ok, everyone together, what is the very first thing Microsoft Tech Support says when you're having video problems? Use the drivers from your card's manufacturer, and keep them up to date. It's not that hard.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Thanks for clarifying.
I am aware of tracking in Windows 10, which is one reason I do not use it.
I have never run anti-anything on my Macs, and have never suffered an infection. Not once.
How do you know? You're like someone who says he has never been tested for AIDS so he doesn't have AIDS.
Odds are that for years you've been part of multiple spam or DDOS botnets. That's people like you who make those botnets possible.
Highly unlikely. While I don't run any anti-malware detection, per se, I do use Little Snitch. It will report on any new/unapproved transmissions. Hard to be part of a botnet without sending out anything.
Plus, I'm not sure that I have ever heard of a Mac botnet. Actually, in researching whether or not that statement was defensible, I did come across a single mention of a Reddit-based Mac botnet that infected some 600k Macs. But that was in 2012, and I don.'t see any other later mentions.
Though it sounds like he being forced to, due to lack of Mac support. Hence my question.