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Trump Slams EU Over $5 Billion Fine on Google (reuters.com)
U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday criticized the European Union and said the bloc was taking advantage of the United States, pointing to the record $5 billion fine European antitrust regulators imposed on Google. From a report: European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker is scheduled to meet with Trump at the White House next Wednesday to discuss trade and other issues. "I told you so! The European Union just slapped a Five Billion Dollar fine on one of our great companies, Google. They truly have taken advantage of the U.S., but not for long!" Trump said in a post on Twitter .
... but I agree on this. Sure, google made the manufacturers install their apps, but so what? They got the OS for free and thats the whole point. Its not the same as MS making people pay for their OS but still forcing OEMs to install their shit.
Google has to make money out of android somehow and if they can't do it via the play store or some other method they'll simply start charging for the OS itself.
Its exactly the same as what happened when people starting bitching about various bank charges. So now the banks dropped the charges and instead a lot of them charge you a flat fee just to have an account. Nice going people, thanks for that.
Trump posted something on Twitter? Well that's worth an entire post.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Trumps actions isn't going to help. It will just strengthen the EU Resolve to enforce it.
The problem is the world is so integrated with the US economy, that they need to play nice with the US however, current dummassery from the people granted power in the US Government. Means the world is going to find ways to uncouple its dependence on the US, as it is becoming considered too irrational and unpredictable.
This uncoupling does include US Companies and their dependence on every resource.
That said, EU has been rather consistent legally with Microsoft and Intel. They tend not to like near monopolies as much as the US does. (At least the ones they don't have control over)
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Thank you, Mr. Putin, we already know what you think.
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
Also, enough posts about trump making asinine comments, it stopped being funny in 2016. I am outside US, I am sick of comment section filled with right vs left.
Yeah Google are such patriots they moved their whole operations to Ireland to avoid contributing anything to the USA, combined with their little Luxembourg sandwiches meaning Trumps secretary probably contributes more, hence your infrastructure is crumbling around you while certain individuals make out like the bandits they are
LOL MAGA
A new president? Or a new precedent? Because the USA already has a precedent in this exact situation -- Microsoft and IE.
Google probably makes a few more than $5b from the EU markets. But unless there is more to this than a fine, then DJT is right... it's just a money grab. The ruling as it stands doesn't flat out require them to change their business practices, just levies fines for non-compliance. And at a paltry 5% of their daily take in the EU. So they can continue this practice indefinitely and just pay the tax if they want.
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He thinks his sanctions are going to really hurt the economies of their targets and force them to come to the negotiating table and agree to new trade agreements with terms much more favorable to the U.S than currently existing agreements. What he's referring to here is obviously the future after the EU bows to his sanctions and agrees to new trade agreements that prevent them from levying sanctions against american companies for breaking their laws.
Only problem with this "brilliant" plan is that the European leadership knows exactly what the purpose behind the sanctions is and in the case of Junker and Macron have even publicly stated that they can see this and won't come to the negotiating table while the sanctions are still in place.
As for why he's using sanctions in particular is that it's about the trade deficit he's obsessed with he knows that sanctions against countries and blocks that the U.S has a trade deficit with will be more effective than any return sanctions they may impose on him instead. This is the only part of it that makes any kind of sense, but it's kind of negated by the fact that the targets can retaliate trough alternative means like refusing to recognize U.S physical or intellectual property rights, which then swings the balance in their favor.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
even its impact to the world is much bigger. EU is one giant greedy gov. Not even saying Google is not evil, but the fine does not fit the crime.
The EU has to regulate their markets in a way that suits their needs. There's no universal principle which dictates how to regulate a capitalist economy. There's no "one size fits all" solution.
Most US Presidents can hardly manage their own economy. I hardly think they are qualified (or have sufficient information) to make a call for a foreign economy.
If Google was found in violation in the EU- it's their call. Google can negotiate.
Trump, might be considered to be defending one of our companies. Though the action is only impressive if the observer is totally clueless.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
Its exactly the same as what happened when people starting bitching about various bank charges. So now the banks dropped the charges and instead a lot of them charge you a flat fee just to have an account.
Funny my bank doesn't charge me anything except for reasonable rates on insurance and 9% apr on my credit card.
They said if I overdraft my bank account they will charge me 6 dollars unless I call them a day in advance.
The real smoking gun for Google is that they forbid phone makers from releasing *any* android phone that is not on their Google Play platform. If a company wanted any Google Play supported phone, they *all* had to be Google Play phones. That's a big no no and obvious abuse of Monopoly power.
However.... just like the time Microsoft was forced to stop dictating what software is pre-installed on PC's, government regulation here is just going to make things worse for consumers. For all it's faults and obscene privacy invasion, Google is a relatively benign overlord. If they loose the ability to dictate how phones are pre-configured, the end result will not be a utopia of phone carefully pre-configured to protect end-user privacy. It will be phone makers selling out and pre-configuring phones with malicious advertisement hijacking search engines, and app repositories stuffed with even more malware than Google's Play store.
USA should have more anti-trust rather than Europe having less. Oligopolies and monopolies degenerate competition and choice. He's talking out of the wrong end to fix the wrong end.
Table-ized A.I.
I have an Android phone - Samsung.
First, I cannot install anything directly to the SD card.
Second, I cannot move any of the Google apps to the SD card.
I cannot delete any of the Google apps.
When updating, I get the "not enough memory" error on my 8 Gig phone with a 32 Gig SD card.
Meaning, I am NOT getting any security updates.
I think Google should be fined $50 billion to make them notice.
>So they can continue this practice indefinitely and just pay the tax if they want.
That's pretty much standard for corporations, regardless. Fines are pretty much the only punishments applicable to corporations, short of dissolving their charter or banning them from doing business.
So, corporation breaks law, corporation gets fined, corporation pays fine and continues breaking the law because paying the fine is more profitable than obeying the law - that's how it's been done the world over for decades - Microsoft was notorious for that. The EU seems to have taken the lead however in establishing future fines as well, so that the company doesn't have to be re-sued for continuing to break the law, they just automatically get continuing fines so long as they're not in compliance, which increases their cost and decreases costs on the legal system.
I would like to see it go a step further myself. Say a 10% increase for every month they continue to break the law. Make sure their bean counters can see the oncoming storm of exponential growth looming in the future, so that they have serious incentive to set things right, rather than just regarding it as an overhead cost of doing business.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
More tariffs?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
"One of our great companies"
Yep, one that played a key role in turning us into a surveillance society, where your children and especially grand children will grow up knowing nothing but mass surveillance and think "privacy" only applies to other individuals (not corporations) -- as they were taught by their masters.
Hey idiot, do you understand that Google are the ones who are taking advantage of everybody on the fucking planet, including your own stupid ass?
I am sort of on the fence on this one but I do believe some of the practices of Google have to change. EU anti-trust laws are there to protect competition - which is slightly different than the US. And in the EU Google is dominant in Android AND search. If you sell an "Android Phone" you are contractually unable to sell a competing phone distribution. You are required to install all the google apps and the play store. Even without all the apps installed, and 'play store' Google still makes a considerable amount of money from the app (they don't pay Apple 3 billion dollars a year to be the default search engine for nothing). Basically, they are doing EXACTLY what Microsoft -- and got whacked by the US government for back when they were dominant in everything. When you are not dominant you can get away with that, when you are - you have to make adjustments. Google can make rather minor changes to comply with the ruling and they will still be dominant.
I bet you have never held an original thought in your life. Waiting for someone to tell you into what to think?
Thank you, Mr. Trump, we already know what you think.
...we officially support trampling rules and privacy in the name of oligarch profits.
//TODO: Insert catchy phrase
I love Google, but what they did was textbook abuse of a monopoly. They established a monopoly, and then used that monopoly to force their other products onto consumers and companies. That's just a textbook version of abusing your monopoly power. Then they also made the mistake of not just doing that, but forcing major corporations with massive lobbying power like Samsung to ship their products. EU regulates competition tightly, and enforces this against EU companies just as fiercefully as against US companies. Google could have seen this one coming from miles. They probably just thought this type of fine and ruling was a fair price to pay for it.
just stop selling to the eu. tell them to stuff there fine. what are they going to do. the brits can bluff all they like but as soon as a majority of the company's stop selling to the eu that law will go away real fast. watch how fast the eu public loses there mind when they dont have YouTube.
one they will lose if google decides to just pull out of the eu market. no more android or YouTube. also where is the fine for apple they are way more locked down then android..
wheres the fine for apple who is way more closed off then android. they say waa waa 3rd party firmware dont come with play store that can be easily installed. you cant even have a 3rd party firmware on apple.
The thing is that fines will get higher as they go on. A fine is not a 'get out of jail' card. It does not mean they can continue doing what they do.
First there is a fine, then there is a higher fine and there also is the abilityto take away the licence to do business.
This has nothing to do with milking companies. This is about punishment and hurting them in the wallet. And they have the power to say "all you (European) bank accounts are now below to us."
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
he knows that sanctions against countries and blocks that the U.S has a trade deficit with will be more effective than any return sanctions they may impose on him instead
Maybe not. When a US company moves jobs out of an area the local politicians seem to get a lot more blame than in Europe. We have seen this at work already with the tariffs on Harley Davidson bikes and how pissed off people are about those jobs going overseas.
Also, the EU is more politically diverse than the US. Lots of national governments, no big federal administration or powerful politicians to blame.
In other words the EU can probably hurt Trump far more than he can hurt the EU, but attacking his base and other politicians that support him.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
'British Petroleum'? Would that the be the one that merged with an American company twenty years ago and became BP?
Nothing at all since the EU also fined VW
https://www.theguardian.com/bu...
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
How is what Google did considered monopolistic practices? First of all, Google does not have a monopoly on mobile phones. Apple is doing just fine in that arena and if you don't like the conditions that Google imposes then go get an iPhone. This is not like the Microsoft case where, at the time, well over 90% of all personal computers were running Windows and there was no viable alternative.
I thought the whole idea of having a "store" to download apps was to help protect users from getting malware on their phones. It is much like the Linux model of Package management where software is housed in a trusted, centralized location and you can download it with a high level of confidence that it is virus free. Contrast that to the Windows model where you go here, there and everywhere to get software. It is especially problematic with "free" software that is frequently laden with spyware. Anyone remember Limewire?
Google has spent a lot of time effort and money enhancing Android. OK, they bought it from someone else but they have improved it greatly. Are they not entitled to make a profit from their store just like Apple does? Samsung and others have profited greatly by piggybacking on Android.
I guess I'm just struggling to see just who the EU is protecting us from.
I know some people are wondering what this whole Trump is a Putin lap dog trend they're hearing. Its just most cattle Americans being fed these stories in their bubble which no one hears outside of the US.
The Russia is our enemy narrative and every other stupid thing you hear..
If you live 2 weeks out of the US this whole nest in your head will clear up and you will understand how it feels going through rehab
In the reporting I've read there is no mention of the fines increasing as time goes on-- only that they will be subject to a 5% revenue fine. The appeal of the current case could take years... by the time this is all settled, Google may well have found a way around Android, and starting this whole fight all over again.
If the EU wanted more than money (which it desperately can use), it could use many other legal mechanisms to resolve the issue. But why would they want to actually resolve the issue when they can soak Google and send the money to EU countries that could use the cash? I'm not trying to defend Trump here, by the way, because I don't see why he cares... except that he has some bizarre fixation on trade imbalances.
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You are giving el Presidente Tweetie too much credit. In his mind, the R voters don't like free trade agreements (they haven't yet lost jobs by losing those) and he can understand one number...at a time. The Big Number he's capable of understanding is the trade deficit number, but only as a number. He gets nothing else about trade because he has a mercantilism view of trade. He also knows that he can use that number in tweets and those go well with big stupid numbers and Fox...well they would seeing as they are essentially a mouth-organ for sound bites that his base likes.
Couple that with his distorted view to bargaining between nations which he figures should be just like bargaining for investment dollars. He bargained by promoting a dream that made the foolish banks and others bet money on him. His 4-6 bankruptcies showed how foolish that is. However, governments do not work like that, at least mature European governments and some Asian governments. They see trade as being something much more complicated, which it is.
When Trump doesn't get people or governments to give what he wants, he acts like the 15 year he is. He resorts to threats. It's worked for him before when he was holding other peoples money and they wanted to withdraw it. He threatens them with a loss. He doesn't really have a loss to threaten anyone with here except his trade deficit number. But since he never understood what that number represented beyond just a number, he ascribes to it all sorts of magical properties which translates in his mind of governments giving him what he wants.
They don't though - they're no more a US company that any other international corporation. They have offices and data centers all over the world, and the always popular Irish tax-dodging offices to hide their profits.
If they don't want to comply with EU law, they're quite welcome to simply not do business in the EU - geoblocking is quite simple, and the EU can block them as well. But that would means giving up all the profit from selling ads targeting Europeans.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
However.... just like the time Microsoft was forced to stop dictating what software is pre-installed on PC's, government regulation here is just going to make things worse for consumers. For all it's faults and obscene privacy invasion, Google is a relatively benign overlord. If they loose the ability to dictate how phones are pre-configured, the end result will not be a utopia of phone carefully pre-configured to protect end-user privacy. It will be phone makers selling out and pre-configuring phones with malicious advertisement hijacking search engines, and app repositories stuffed with even more malware than Google's Play store.
Well, for one thing this is only an issue for Google in the EU and in that neck of the woods there will not be a bonanza of “pre-configuring phones with malicious advertisement hijacking search engines, and app repositories stuffed with even more malware than Google's Play store. Anybody selling phone a like that in the EU will be having a rather serious discussion with the EU comission about some very large fines. But, fret not, Google will be free to continue its anti-competitive practices outside of EU jurisdiction, that much is clear from president Trump’s recent tweets.
Google does business in the eu. They hire people there, have contracts with local telecoms there, sell advertising space there, etc. that's enough to make that part of their business subject to EU law.
Betcher ass, more tariffs.
Look, Trump walks into the G7 and, as 1st order of business, he says, "Lets drop all the tariffs, 100%." The others just look at each other, and said, "Lets move on to the next subject." The fact is that when we tariff something at 2.5%, they're tariffing our stuff at 25%. That's not free trade, its UNfair trade. Trump wants Fair Trade, because free trade is not possible - the others won't give up their tariffs.
It's the same situation in a different jurisdiction. Because of all the trade treaties and agreements, many world governments are, for all intents and purpose, entangled to the point that we might as well have a "world government"... there is significant reciprocity between the jurisdictions that mutually benefit both (or at least benefit the ownership class in both areas). The real question here isn't why Trump is so angry at the EU, but why the US DOJ and FTC aren't aggressively pursuing the same type of case against Google.
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Just one more point. If you ever hear about bringing laws up to date to match technology. Well, this is an incredible good example of that need. Bundling software and limiting choice isn't good, but we literally have to use 1800s era law about 3rd party business and direct/indirect goods and services to bring about a case on Google. Updating laws to indicate that bundling software and limiting choice is bad would greatly make the jobs of prosecutors a whole world easier.
Did anybody ever tell you that you're a fucking moron?
This $5B is simple a "protection racket", just like the mob.
No. Google (much as I admire their products) broke the EU law. Maybe you could read up on the complaint, it's pretty clear. (The EU - unlike the US - has a history of not being a complete pushover to corporate interests.)
I'd agree that nothing the EU can do will "attack the base" of Trump. By definition his base believe what he says, so I don't think anything is going to change that.
FWIW, I believe that the Google fine is NOT politically motivated, so maybe I'm irrational too.
If you would bother to learn what you're talking about instead of just repeating incorrect political talking points, you'd seem much more intelligent.
Tariffs are only a fraction of the issue. If you're not a moron, you also look at the amount spent subsidizing the product in each country, and you look at the total of both goods and services exchanged between the two countries, and weight those including the tariffs. That's actually fair accounting, and not cherry-picking a number to prove your point.
If one country can make one product cheaper, it doesn't make sense to try to have balanced trade with them. It's in our best interest to buy that product or service at a lower dollar amount, and spend the resources we'd have normally spent making it on something we can do more efficiently. Making everything cost more and run less efficiently just to get a trade deficit number which will make Trump feel like a winner is stupid. This is why pretty much every serious economist is against what Trump is doing.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
And all of those innovative European companies can swoop in to fill the void!
Once they're done paying the fees and taxes, the mandatory bribes, spent millions abiding by thousands of draconian regulations, implemented government back doors to all user data, met diversity hire quotas, hired mandatory privacy advocates, and been sued into oblivion for patent infringement.
You mean they'd be operating in the US? I'd have expected them to remain in the EU :)
And he will continue to attempt and fail to bring jobs back from outside the country
Fixed that for you.
... because International trade is not a zero sum game, trade barriers harm American interests. Then I don't expect his base to understand that, but they will understand the mass unemployment that is coming their way as a result of his and your ignorance of Economics 101.
While the targets, such as the EU, Japan, the rest world with trade more with each other.
EU signs its biggest free trade deal with Japan
Every nation claims to be for free trade. They all lie. It's about the political power of domestic producers.
For example: Sugar beats are not an economic crop. They can't compete. If a nation grows sugar beats, you know they protect their sugar market. Germany grows a lot of sugar beats.
They're _all_ mercantilists, China more than anybody.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Fair enough. Let's count the total violent megadeaths in the 20th century...not the answer you want?
Europe certainly needed adult supervision in 1946, perhaps they can get their act together now, but I wouldn't count on it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
wheres the fine for apple who is way more closed off then android.
Apple isn't preventing other companies from manufacturing potentially competing products. From a consumer point of view, Apple's behavior isn't any better than Google's, but legally there's a difference, since Apple isn't using their monopoly position to force behavior from other companies.
According to this:
https://crimeresearch.org/2016...
You are wrong. Sorry, couldn't quickly find anything more recent than 2016 on the topic. Not sure how the trend went after that, but I doubt Europe has decreased violent crime... if anything it probably got worse... because more refugees. It seems like riding over large crowds of people in vans is a popular trend in EU nowadays, at least in some circles.
I think they will realize that he isn't putting America first when their jobs get shipped overseas because of retaliatory tariffs, or even his own tariffs on the components that go into their products.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
No, it does not. This is what we've been mostly doing over the last 30 years when our workers' wages have stagnated for the last 30 years. This way of doing things has seen the near-collapse of our manufacturing base, with widespread underemployment and unemployment and Trump is putting a stop to it.
Nicely done getting all worked up about the first half of a sentence while ignoring the critical second half! The near-collapse of our manufacturing base is because it's cheaper to make things in other countries. Correct. But you ignored the second half of that very sentence which said,
...and spend the resources we'd have normally spent making it on something we can do more efficiently.
That's the missing part. We haven't done that. What "we've" done is pocket the money we saved and failed to reinvest it back into another product or service. You know, those things created by people doing a thing we call a job.
Just because the US has failed on this doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.
Isolationist trade policies make just about everything cost more while everyone else willing to trade globally gets cheaper goods and services, and a higher quality of life. The issue isn't in the global market. It's in the the social and political systems that deny the full benefit of the global market from a subset of the population.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
If you think Trump's supporter base will be swayed by EU and Chinese sanctions, then man do you not know anything about them. Because any ill effects of return sanctions are just going to drive them to further support Trump as they believe they're all un-justified attacks on the U.S regardless of what preceded them. They really do believe the rest of the world has been taking advantage of the U.S when in reality it's just U.S companies doing what's most profitable for them regardless of the consequences to the working class and U.S trade balance.
As for the "protection racket" accusation, what protection racket simply tells you to get your business practices in line with local law and doesn't actually spring to action until after several years of non-compliance? Because the EU has been telling Google to stop these particular anti-competitive business practices since 2011, thus giving Google more than enough time to either change their practices or take their business elsewhere. There's nothing that forces Google to do business in Europe if they don't like the consumer protection laws, but if they do, then they will either have to follow those laws or get into trouble with regulators like they are in right now.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
Defend from what? Cheap Russian gas or cheap Chinese manufactured goods??!?!
WE MUST HELP EUROPE NOW!!! Too long have they suffered under cheap natural gas that drives their economy! We must ship our much more expensive cr..p using super expensive boats instead of pipeline! Too long have they had access to cheap Chinese goods! We must sell them our stuff that costs 10X to make!
Yeah right....Want to help Europe? Take some refugees from countries US destroyed (for no reason whatsoever might I add, other than create chaos it seems). Or at the very least STOP creating more refugees with bombings/destroying infrastructure and supplying terrorists in middle east countries.
No, do business with EU companies in the USA. Serve pages to EU customers from servers located in 'free enough' places.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
They're already in complete disarray. Half of the youth vote and most of the black vote is going to #WalkAway .
I wish we had a relevant party for them to go to. I do not want Republicans to rule the roost unilaterally.
you think our president has nothing better to do all day besides posting useless comments on the internet? Oh.... wait....
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I know this is a joke, and it gave me a chuckle as well, but there's actually a very disturbing trend I've seen accelerate over the last couple of months, in that anyone who supports Trump or disagrees with MSM interpretation of the summit is labelled a Russian troll.
I know for the fervently anti-Trump crowd, de-legitimization has been a common tactic all along, but mixing it with the concerted effort to paint Russia as a boogeyman really feels like a throwback to McCarthyism now.
...
``I'll announce tariffs on EU search engines. That'll show 'em!''
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
It seems to be the most used, and over-used, headline word lately. Everyone is slamming everything, and it comes across as flat and juvenile now. This isn't WWE or a dramatic Soap Opera episode.
Dear journalism, please stop.
Yours,
David
-
If you cheat to win a race, take home the blue ribbon and prize money, are caught, and then agree not to do it again but keep the prizes, you should not get to call that compliance with the rules.
Trump "traumatizes" you, really? You're the one keeping it going. Turn off your computer or your phone and go outside. See how easy that was? I'll ask you this, what has changed in your daily life since Trump was elected? I'm going to guess nothing besides getting angry.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
With the now lower (to EU standards) corporate income tax in the US, there is suddenly a lot less reason to keep a company based in Ireland or elsewhere. Your tax load is not longer twice as high in the US; Google may very well decide that an extra percent or two of income tax is no longer a barrier, and just leave.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Why does this bullshit keep getting modded up.
The EU regularly fines the crap out of EU companies, including Volkswagen.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Obama and the Dems were wrong about Russia in 2012 and since then we've seen Russia shoot down MH-17, attack Ukraine, take over Crimea, threaten Europe and attempt to assassinate people in Britain just for starters.
Why is Russia suddenly considered trustworthy now?
And Obama didn't do enough to combat Russia back in 2016.
Why does that justify ignoring it now?
And why is Trump trying to scare people into thinking nuclear war is the only alternative to playing into Putin's hands?
The EU definitely had a part to play in monopoly abuse proceedings against MS. It was the EU that forced MS to offer people a choice of browsers.
WTF? No. They're called international payments.
Any other wrong 'explanations' you want to post?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Get to work Democrats. Give us someone better than Trump next time.
But they won't, they will pivot left.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
However, governments do not work like that,
See what Trump said when he was told a country is not a golf course.
At one point, Mr. Trump even compared his renovation of Trump Turnberry to how he is hoping to overhaul the United States. When a reporter pointed out — correctly — that a country is hardly a golf course, Mr. Trump replied: “No it’s not, but you’ll be amazed how similar it is. It’s a place that has to be fixed.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/0...
God help us if he fixes the US like he "fixed" Turnberry, which has been losing money ever since he bought it.
what are you on buddy. you can't make a competing apple product. they will sue the away.
To "hurt" the EU, you only have to hurt Germany. Germany is the economic heart of the EU; all other members of the EU are smaller, GDP-wise, than California. Put the pressure on Germany, and Germany will insist the EU yield - as it has done in the past. The EU thinks it's all unified, but put pressure on just the singular player (Germany) and its chancellor (Merkel) and you can get what you want. And Merkel isn't too popular right now, I bet having some big car and pharmaceutical import duties on German products would bring them right in-line mach schnell!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
mixing it with the concerted effort to paint Russia as a boogeyman really feels like a throwback to McCarthyism now.
I was just mentioning the other day how you could surely use ole Joe right about now.
Like George Orwell he was clearly ahead of his time.
Yes let us take a look. First place is Central America, then Africa, then South America, then Asia. Why do you hate brown people?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I'm not sure exactly what your point is. A couple possibilities I can think of:
1) Nobody else can manufacturer and sell "Apple" products. That's a trademark issue, which has nothing to do with this antitrust judgment.
2) Apple doesn't allow other manufacturers to use iOS for their products. There's nothing illegal about refusing to license your proprietary and/or copyright-protected software.
If Google didn't let anyone else use Android for their phones, there would be no antitrust issue. This judgment is because Google is attaching requirements to the agreements with the manufacturers that restrict what other products the manufacturers are allowed to make. That is the anti-competitive behavior that EU fined Google for.
Google and EU should find a way to get along. Democracy probably better off. The fines are a money grab under a guise of trying to force a change in undesirable behavior. Where's is the lame WTO now? Concede WTO has its flaws. Trade wars by Democracies counter productive, we have bigger common foes that should face united.
In the context of smart phones, Apple is just a small fry, that captured some early market and decided that it wasn't "hip" enough to cater to everyone, so others waltzed in and took and overtook the market. Classic Apple mistake. They'll soon be irrelevant again.
A country forcing another country to pay money is called international extortion. Nice try snowflakes. You can mod facts down all you and spread all the disinformation you like, but reality is still reality. Think I'm joking? Get a degree in business and specialize in international business.
We'll make great pets
Yes and like I said, that is a legal arrangement to do BUSINESS in that country. If Google doesn't pay the fine and decides to pack up and not do business anymore in the EU, there isn't a fucking thing the EU can do to punish Google via its legal system.
We'll make great pets
Their assets can still be seized to pay for the fine. Standard procedure.
I'm sure that "Waiting for someone to tell you into what to think" sounds perfectly fine in the original Russian, but to American ears it sounds off.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Americans in general don't consider most things to be important. The majority of senators however do think that the Russia issue is important, even Republican senators (except for those too scared to disagree with Trump). This is not to say that Trump was elected illegitimately, that's not at all what the Russian issue is about at all.
Google most certainly can be coerced by foreign countries if it does business in those countries. The US issues fines and penalties for non-US companies, so it's only fair to allow it to go the other way as well.
I suspect that Trump thinks that deals he makes are only "wins" if the other side also loses. He's not searching for what is a good arrangement for both parties, but instead about what's the most that the US can get in the short term.
Damaging US allies and hurting the world economy with tariffs will hurt America. I see no way that his actions are putting America first except in a simplistic world view. I think he genuinely believes there cannot be winners unless there are losers.
Not only has that horse left the barn, the barn was torn down. If you think that his actions are going to result in immediate jobs, you're daft. No one is going to invest in re-building that infrastructure.Stuff that's still standing maybe, but I remember reading about the new Chines owners of Anchor Hocking visiting the old factory, before they cut it to pieces and shipped everything to China.
Good luck with that shit. Trumpster.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Like the US never ordered around companies based in other countries and made them follows US laws. As in punishing European companies for doing business in Iran 90 days after the US pulled out of the agreement to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. Those companies were legally doing business in Iran as per the agreement which Iran was complying with.
Where is that happening? This is the EU punishing an American company in retaliation for America having punished a German company largely owned by a German state (Porsche/VW/Audi: the world's new 'generic motors').
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
How are the Chinese doing without Google? Just fine. Somehow they manage to be the most powerful economy in the world even without the benefit of petty totalitarians in Mountain View snooping everything they do. Weird, huh?
Google isn't an American company anymore. In order to facilitate tax dodging they made themselves an Irish company.
Hahahahahahahaha! Good one! The United States exports hardly anything. Financial paper, yes. Idea monopolies, yes. Extracted natural resources, yes. Actual products - hell no. We can't lose a "trade war". Because we're already down & out. The economy in the manufacturing states has been in a state of total collapse longer than I've been alive. There is *nowhere* to go but up. I didn't vote in the last election, because I didn't like either of them. But after watching him for 2 years, President Trump has my vote in 2020. He's definitely not perfect. But at least he's on our side.
I think the President is just tired of America being the willing (eager?) loser in every single trade deal for several decades. You can talk all you want about how "free trade" is good for everyone. The millions of victims of the policies you advocate, however, are not fooled.
I mean, wouldn't consumers see the crummy phones and refuse to buy them? Wouldn't there be a rush of high quality phones that protected privacy? Or, well, could it be that the free market isn't a Wunderheilung (and yes, I shamelessly used google translate for that).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
We're not the loser in all the trade deals for the last several decades. It may be what Trump thinks but it's pretty delusional. The snag is that if one person loses a job they will complain bitterly, even though 2 people got jobs.
If free trade is bad, then maybe we shouldn't trade between the states, let California keep its wealth and Alabama go to it by itself?
It's useless to say some one is wrong with out any providing any point to support it.
You could state the lack of Congress support on any agressive move against Russia.
Return of the Symbian ;)
Google better watch out , those EU software powerhouses set for disruption. RIP
It seems you are ignoring the millions of workers who have been impoverished by the policies you advocate. What do you say to the masses who have seen their livelihoods destroyed so a few bourgeoisie could profit?
The EU can't come into USA and seize Google's assets. If Google has assets in the EU, they might be able to do that. In order to do something like that in the USA, the EU would have to make an appeal to the USA much in the same way the USA had to make an appeal to Norway regarding DVD Jon breaking DECSS. USA's laws did not apply in Norway. I'm sorry you're just wrong. The EU's laws do not apply in the USA and vice versa. You can't go to another country and seize a company's assets based on your laws. Your laws don't apply here and vice versa. Research your international case law regarding these sorts of things.
We'll make great pets
US Corporate tax rate is 21% for all activities. So all of Google - which is not trading income - would be a lower tax rate in the US. It will probably stay in Ireland just because of inertia and convenience, but if suddenly it gets more expensive because of EU fines, there is really no financial reason to stay in Ireland any more.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Central America is the most murderous region in the world. An order of magnitude higher than than the US, in fact. I see a lot of Central and South America and Africa and Asia well before the US or Canada. And of course Europe includes Moldova, Russia and Ukraine, all of which are more murderous than the US.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
American company pays fine to US government or ceases to be incorporated, money goes to American tax payers
Really? Money goes to American tax payers? Where is the money?
It'll be great. And I am quite serious.
Youve always had a choice. The EU just made Microsoft stop pre Installig IE in Windows. Which has only been replaced by harder to remove edge. Glad I run Linux where multiple browsers are normally pre installed for your choice.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What happens with big trade deals is that millions lose their jobs and millions get new previously non existent jobs. So it's bad news for some people but great news for others. And this happens with or without free trade. With fair trade the balance is not between a few million workers and a few bourgoisie.
Free trade is often used as the bogey man excuse for a different problem. Big corporate farms with few workers are cutting into small and family run farms, yet it gets blamed on trade imbalances (and it's a political hot potato, as it pits voters against campaign donors). Coal jobs are down because of changes in the industry and in customer demand, not because a previous administration tried to dismantle it. The solution is to be adaptable and get new jobs that are not like the old jobs. Ie, soybean sales are down then grow something else.
For example, take NAFTA. The biggest bogeyman for those against fair trade. Here's a report from the Heritage Foundation. Yes, the freaking Heritage Foundation, bastion of conservatism and anti-liberal think tank.
https://www.heritage.org/trade...
Protectionism has never helped the economy overall. Sometimes tariffs will increase profits for a domestic producer because there are now a shortgage of product, but relatively few new workers are hired to increase production. This leaves other businesses that use those products in the lurch paying higher prices. For example, the US lumber industry benefits from tariffs against Canadian lumber, whereas 1/3 of lumber used by the home building industry comes from Canada because there's not enough supply domestically. Tariffs added have increased lumber industry profits but raised prices on new homes, wthout increasing the number of workers.
Yup, the "R" face of the Corporate party pumps out propaganda with the same content but different wording than the "D" face of the Corporate party. Surprise surprise.
So you basically refuse to acknowledge the abject, pathetic failure of the "free trade" policies you advocate. This is why the disinherited working class of America voted against you, and will vote against you again & again.
And there's nothing they can do to "attack the base" that is going to work short of somehow getting him to NOT put America first, and start cooperating with the globalists to F the USA and move jobs out of the country again, put everyone back on welfare that was before, etc. Not going to happen.
You know he has a lot of his own factories outside of the USA right? Guess it's a "Do what I say and not what I do" situation here.
Also what about the times where he threw American intelligence under the bus in favor of appeasing Putin? Guess it's a "good guys on both sides" situation here.
Globalists to F the USA? Alex Jones, is that you?! Yo whatup dawg. I'm right down the street from you!
Donald doesn't care, he's got all the money he needs so they cannot bribe him.
So much money that they are still working on his tax return.
And he will continue to attempt to bring jobs back from outside the country, advocate for US companies that are getting raped by Mafia-like organizations like the EU, and so forth.
LOL unless you're Amazon, Harley or somebody who gets on his bad side. Let me guess, he isn't going to start with his companies though.
This $5B is simple a "protection racket", just like the mob.
If there is anybody who knows about mob mentality, it's Trump who employed Roy Cohn who ACTUALLY represented mafia members.
What I find "funny" about this last statement is how when poor Mexicans seeking asylum are crossing the border, they're enemy #1 and separating families is "just part of doing business" because they "broke the law". When Google breaks the law, you make up excuses instead of using previous rhetoric about "breaking the law". If that's not hypocrisy, I don't know what is. Turns out, if you break the law, you get punished.
"I'd agree that nothing the EU can do will "attack the base" of Trump. By definition his base believe what he says, so I don't think anything is going to change that."
We don't necessarily believe what he says, we just don't give a shit about the trivialities. The stuff he says that aren't right are trivial - the size of his crowds on inauguration day, for instance. If that's wrong, does anybody bleed? Does anyone lose money? Nope, its just an inaccurate statement. What he says that counts is accurate. He tells us he's going to (try to) build a wall, he's struggling mightily to do it and will probably succeed. He tells us he's going to bring jobs back from overseas, well he's doing it. He tells us he's going to cut taxes, he did it. Find me a politician that fulfills as many of his campaign promises as Trump. I don't think there are any. That is why we didn't vote for any of the other 17 Republican primary candidates - we knew that they would _all_ tell us what we wanted to hear, and the go to Washington and do exactly what the Koch Bros or the other campaign donors wanted, and not necessarily what is good for America. Trump says he's going to get control of the southern border, well he's doing it. The important stuff he tells the truth about, and you can take it to the bank.
What you don't seem to realize that those losing good manufacturing jobs _are_ getting different jobs, but the "different" jobs pay a fraction of what they were making. That is the scenario when good-paying manufacturing jobs leave the country, and those that were doing those jobs get puke retail jobs at minimum wage, or slightly above it. Trump is trying to put a stop to that. Some retail jobs may go away, but manufacturing jobs will replace them. That is a good thing. We need manufacturing jobs. Some people are good with their hands, want to work with their hands, and don't want to be feeding a bunch of computerized machines urine samples in some med lab after 2 years of training. They want to turn wrenches, install machines with 50 hp motors to stamp car bodies or build something else, and don't want to be cooped up in a lab. Those people are not happy in labs, and many are doing everything they can, which is considerable to stay out of labs. They're home watching soap operas while a spouse is making the minimum wage at Walmart, they are near-starving, and are not contributing to a consumer-driven recovery. Until Trump. They're going back to work again, while Trump jawbones (remember jawboning? You have to be pretty ancient like me - that is what the press called JFK's tongue-lashings of the steel industry when they weren't doing what he thought was good for America) Harley Davidson for attempting to make bikes in Europe, I think it is, or maybe China. Trump thinks the bikes should be made in Wisconsin and shipped to Europe and China, but Europe has huge tariffs. We don't tariff the stuff we get from them anywhere close to what they tariff our stuff. That is what has Trump pissed off, and trying to raise our tariffs to match theirs. That's simply fair. They can have 25% tariffs but ours can only be 2.5%? No, no, no. Ours are going up. F them. The era of doormat USA is over. We're fighting back.
usually corporations break laws after doing the math but in this case they might have expected another number , yes indeed , i mean that's what law is for :) to be used by those who can afford it.
As for the Trump-slamming, i hope this doesn't point at "sanctions due to favouritism" ... ? on the last post on the fine i already saw the quantum foam bubbling ready to sell custom android OS homecooked and tweaked for specific hardware setups ... it might do a few haxxers good like that :)
much ado about nothing if you ask me, but in the end i doubt anyone will get hurt other than the EU itself, they're just too greedy ... how much of that do you think will trickle down to the people sleeping next to their own piss on the streets of brussels and paris ? how much of that will mysteriously trickle up to the people in 10k suits making speeches on how "it should not be" and point a moralizing finger at the likes of syria (that'l teach em) for making lofty speeches looking good ...
if i KNEW they would put the money to good use, i could see the benefit in bleeding the whale a little, but the money will just dissipate upwards so all this is gonna do is create animosity
and a very few very rich caterers to champagne parties
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?