Slashdot Mirror
Impossible Burgers' Key, Bloody Ingredient Wins FDA Approval (cnbc.com)
The FDA has approved the key ingredient used in the vegetarian-friendly Impossible Burger. "The ingredient, soy leghemoglobin, releases a protein called heme that gives the meat substitute its distinctive blood-like color and taste," reports CNBC. The burger comes from a company aptly named Impossible Foods, which started raising millions of dollars in 2015 to pursue a plant-based burger that truly tastes like meat. From the report: In a letter to Impossible Foods released Monday, the FDA deemed soy leghemoglobin GRAS, or generally recognized as safe, in its most recent review. "Getting a no-questions letter goes above and beyond our strict compliance to all federal food-safety regulations," Impossible Foods founder and CEO Patrick O. Brown said in a statement. "We have prioritized safety and transparency from day one, and they will always be core elements of our company culture."
...I can't say that I've ever missed that specific meat-like taste (even less so the color) in any of the many meat facsimiles I've tried. I suppose the reason why one becomes a vegetarian plays a big role in this.
It's weird... after having been vegetarian for 17 years, the concept of making a vegetarian burger taste more like meat only strikes feelings of "eww, gross" in me. And I imagine that's a pretty common reaction.
But I guess it's good for non-vegetarians and maybe people who are newly vegetarian.
On the upside, I imagine this product is a good source of iron, since heme iron is well absorbed.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Reading TFA (I know), it turns out that new food ingredients don't actually require FDA approval, since food companies can simply state that their novel ingredient is safe, and then the FDA probably won't challenge that. ~10% of all food ingredients haven't been FDA tested/assessed, due to this self-approval loophole, and a concerned party is suing the FDA to close it.
Reading elsewhere on the net, the Impossible Burger tastes/looks/smells remarkably like a real hamburger. The Beyond Burger smells closer to real beef, but doesn't taste/feel as similar. If vegetable-based burgers can get this close, it makes me wonder if there'd be any market for lab-grown meat, which would presumably cost more to produce. Both veggie burgers seem to have the same amount of protein as beef burgers. One hitch: the impossible burger's heme is from GMO yeast, so the anti-GMO people will have a problem with that (probably a significant fraction of vegetarians).
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
I wonder what the sodium content of this is though? I've tried a few vegan fake meats before out of curiosity, and lot of them seem to be 30%+ of the daily value per serving.
I'd rather just eat natural stuff like nuts, avocado, mushrooms, beans, etc for protein and not bother with imitating meat (I'm not even a vegetarian, just try their stuff sometimes).
Why do we never see reports that steak is being processed to taste like tofu?
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I these days steer away from foodstuffs that are heavily processed (vegetable and animal sourced). My diet consists of mostly vegetable matter as it comes off the plant and animal protein as it came off or out of the animal/bird - preferably pasture fed.
As a male, I also avoid soy.
I'm not convinced that one can make something with a concoction of chemicals that is even closely as healthy to put inside your body than it is to just get it how nature has made it for millennia and our bodies are finely tuned to utilize through generations of selection?
I actually agree with other vegetarian posters: the likeness to meat of fake meat is actually a detractor, not a good selling point. If you make a choice to eat vegetables, you want your food to taste like that.
From the letter it actually looks like the FDA said that they see no reason not to take the manufacturers word for it that it's safe, not that they have actually concluded for themselves that it is safe. I don't know if that counts as "approval", but I think the distinction is important.
Based on the information that Impossible Foods provided, as well as other information available to FDA, we have no questions at this time regarding Impossible Foods’ conclusion that soy leghemoglobin preparation is GRAS under its intended conditions of use to optimize flavor in ground beef analogue products intended to be cooked. This letter is not an affirmation that soy leghemoglobin preparation is GRAS under 21 CFR 170.35.
... to get the meat junkies off their fix. The eco-balance of meat is truely abysmal. Like just a few notches short of plutonium or something. If we could switch to a substitute without anybody noticing, that would be awesome and also finally get anti-biotics out of meat production and back into healthcare, where they belong. That would also get agriculture back into sane waters.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
It took companies a couple of decades to perfect the texture of ground beef which, all things considered, isn't too far off from ground up beans or mushrooms in emulsified plant-based fat, probably oil. The secret of the impossible burger is getting the emulsifier right.
Getting the texture of unprocessed meat, which is closely packed muscle fiber interspersed with fat, is probably impossible using plant-based structures.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
You can acheive the same by disallowing import from the Amazon region - and anywhere else that don't live up to your environmental standards. Many countries make their own meat, in ways acceptable to the local population.
Avoiding animal products. People who do not eat any meat, fish, poultry, or dairy products are at risk of becoming deficient in vitamin B12, since B12 is only found naturally in animal products. Thatâ(TM)s why vegans should make sure to include B12-fortified foods or a B12 supplement in their diets. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/n...
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
If this stuff is still believed to be safe in 3 decades of actual use, then I'll give it a go or at least evaluate the dangers.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Oh my god, so much wrong with this sentence:
source: I am a biochemistry lecturer and wikipedia
What?...they didn't want to call it Soylent Red, or Frankenburger?
Just another day in Paradise
Strange that no one of the die hard vegetarians knows that ...
No idea why you americans keep spreading that myth. First of all the vitamin in question is not "B" but "B12".
Then: there are plenty of vegan foods that have plenty of B vitamins of any type, like 11 or 12. E.g. mushrooms, Sauerkraut, fermented Soy, like Tofu, Algae, even black tea comes to mind, everything containing yeast, e.g. beer! Who had guessed that, beer contains vitamin B! Carrots and other "root vegetables".
Sorry, that you only can get vitamin B* from meat is the biggest lie in the internet.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Meat's not Murder, as much as I enjoy Morrisey; It's slaughter. And I admire meat-eaters who address sustainable farms to address factory farming and respect any perspective to appeal to HOW animals are raised and rendered after I had read Diet for a Small Planet (https://www.smallplanet.org/diet-for-a-small-planet) and Robbins' book (the Baskin/Robbins heir who was conned by Madoff) in 1990. I went lacto-ovo vegan and made soy "milk", and my own gluten (ashamed I couldn't master tempeh cultures) and supplemented my diet with nutritional yeast for B complex vitamins and explored every meat substitute available and can claim I was spared seasonal flus for years. Fifteen years later, friends half a generation younger, mocked my preferences to seek out substitutes with the same texture and "mouth feel" as akin to wearing a fake fur. It was my first experience with shifts in generational perspective, I think. (The second is a pervasive belief microwave appliances are dangerous.) Anyway, Morning Star brand was some of the best commercially available (and affordable) product (but used egg whites for texture) and leveraged by the growing market of baby-boomers reduction of cholesterol consumption: Tinfoil Advisory-- Morning Star's "Prime" product was the best I had ever experienced and disappeared from the market for over two decades because (I believe) it was TOO Good. At about this time, Oprah took on the Beef trade associations and was summarily silenced on the subject, the only topic from which I believe she has EVER backed away. Supply/Demand arguments have been the reason given for the 3-4X cost of livestock for three decades. Qorn was prevented from North American shelves for over a decade for reasons ignored when it came to Frito-Lay's potato chip products...end of Advisory...
In 2010, I returned to being an omnivore, but I miss the days of chasing down "mouth feel" substitutes because the science is interesting, and the business angles are very intriguing. Textured vegetable protein (a fantastic substitute in Chile adopted by Hormel a loooong time ago) is the best example of an affordable substitute and industrially compressed gluten that simulated a roast beef that I experienced in Oakland and LA's Whole foods deli sections is the most expensive (5X that of steak), but truly a delicacy.
In 1990, Robbins' claimed that, without government subsidized water rights, a dollar hamburger in the US would cost $6. I don't know if that's factual because there aren't many sources or studies to cross reference, but such an estimate goes a long way in explaining why the market is, in my humble opinion, so controlled.
Would were! Should is! Could be! And live a hundred times three.
Take a look in the mirror, and smile. The Incisors and Canines in your mouth evolved primarily for eating meat, and the premolars and molars evolved for grinding vegetable matter. I go with what my biology is optimized for.
I will add that almost every animal source is edible, and the vast majority of plant life is either inedible or actually toxic in some way. I stick with what works. . .
Yes, instead we can clear rainforest to grow plants for ethanol! Because biofuels are so good for the environment!
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
You're just jealous that I get to fondle some nice tits!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yeast does not produce B12. Fermenting also does not produce B12. B12 is produced by a specific bacteria.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I may have a bit of a conflict of interest here since I'm allergic to soy, but its one of the most common food allergies. I wish the food industry would stop their obsession with it. They put it in literally everything now days and the FDA says they dont even have to put it on the allergy list if they only use lecithin or the oil which is some BS because it still makes us sick.
The estrogen should take care of that too, your chest will look like it's been waxed 10 minutes ago.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Yep, bacon is the gateway drug.
My first ~ year as a vegetarian, I liked to point out that bacon is crispy. Meat isn't crispy. If you cook some meat and leave it sitting out on the counter all day, it'll spoil in a few hours. You can cook bacon and leave it out for days, weeks even if you cover it to keep the dust and flies off. Therefore bacon must not be meat, I can eat it, I said. :)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I enjoy a vegetarian meal but I've never understood the search for a meat substitute. When I want meat I eat it, when I want vegetarian I eat that way. There are plenty of vegetarian dishes that I would choose to eat purely because of the taste. I personally think the idea of a gene moded wholly artificial key ingredient sort of defeats the purpose of a vegetarian, or raw diet I wonder if it would qualify as Halal or Kosher ? I think of Soylent : Green when I consider stuff like this...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
After all, look at the target market.
A shame Harvard is such a shitty institute they got this all wrong.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
I found that funny that vegetarians (and vegans) said that they want to help animal with one hand and found initiative like Impossible Foods with the other.
"Wait, those two things both help animal" you might say.
Well, let's take the hypothesis that in 200 years this succeed and eventually all meat are replace with "laboratory" meat. That would be wonderful for the ~ 800 million pigs and the ~ 1000 cattle, right?
Oh wait, they don't exist anymore, except in zoo. After all, extinction sound a lot better than husbandry don't you think?
Elok
Yes, instead we can clear rainforest to grow plants for ethanol!
Is anyone actually doing that? AFAICT most of the plants grown for ethanol are grown right here in the USA. The corn grown for ethanol is however almost universally grown continuously, meaning without even letting fields lie fallow, let alone use of crop rotation. That's how we got the dust bowl the first time... BOHICA!
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes and no - 'reliable' is the key word. Other foods may or may not have B12, and in varying amounts, so the safest choice is to take a B12 supplement. Health organizations like the USADA also say that everyone over 50yrs of age should also be taking a B12 supplement, and I bet that age will only continue to go down. B12 deficiency generally has more to do with one's ability to absorb it than amount consumed, so best just make sure you get much more than actually 'required' to maximize absorption.
First world problems and attitude all in one post. Very humble brag of you.
I agree! We as a civilization should be promoting things that improve our society and discourage things that harm it (though dunno your dating problems ...seems like a personal issue).
Why is a cow's life worth more than a cute bunny's?
The same cute rabbit is called either a bunny or a frier depending only on the buyer's intent.
...not meat that looks and tastes like meat. I guess if the ethical conundrum of meat consumption is what drives you to be a vegetarian, I can see how this would be welcome.
Social Media Mgr at Bluefield Identity
I think if a few more kids saw an animal being killed it would make a big difference)
Yes, there would be fewer vegetarians. It is only the hiding of the natural cycle of predation that causes some adults to be disgusted and turn vegetarian. Learning that we eat animals at a young age leads to more rational adults. Now some of these rational adults may still turn vegetarian but they will more likely be motivated by health aspects than squeamishness. Squeamishness is a result of being sheltered and separated from the realities of nature.
... no icky ... did I sit down at the table and think yummy. You bet I did.
Think of history for a moment, over the millennia of farming where young children saw fowl and livestock turned into dinner. What effect did that reality have on them? To go vegetarian, no. More likely is to be thinking "this is going to taste good" and they do their chore of plucking the chicken for Mom.
Hell, vegetarianism due to squeamishness is a very modern phenomena even in towns and cities. We are only a small number of decades removed from taking a whole chicken home for dinner. Plucked and partially processed but it still unmistakably looked like a chicken to any young children seeing it and Mom having to removed the inner organs was a common sight too. I recall seeing this at my Grandmother's. Did I want to stick my hands in there to remove the heart, liver, etc
Meat is healthy. Processed vegetables are not only unhealthy but destructive to the environment.
This is just so sad.
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
Food preparation is not sport, its part of sustenance. Slaughtering livestock is an ordinary part of 10,000 years of farming.
If you have problems killing the pig it only tells me one thing. You haven't tasted farm raised bacon.
Nope, I always specify B12. All of the other B vitamins are available from plant sources, but B12 is not and the other B vitamins are not a substitute for B12. B12 is only reasonably available to humans by eating animals, unless you like eating poop like rabbits, gorillas, and pigs do.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But I loved the comment "Maybe you need to do some work on your parser."
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
I like eating meat, I don't eat a lot of it, but I do like some meat with my meals. My wife is almost a vegan (again) but bacon is her one weakness. I find food without a meat portion to be bland and unfulfilling. That's my choice, just as it's my wife's choice to no longer eat meat. I don't give a fuck if the cow takes up more space, it also produces more poop and contributes to the glue you use to stick your kids poster to something. I can also wear it on my feet (the leather, not the steak, or the whole cow). How about finding a substitute for decent leather, there are NONE that come close.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Sorry, that is wrong.
I mentioned plenty of B12 sources in my post.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Which institude of Havyed do you mean? Perhaps you should direct your frustation more specifically?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The more you take, the more the body 'forgets' how to absorb it.
Vitamin supplements are a double edged sword. As soon as you are not on them, e.g. while traveling, your body needs weeks to adapt to get them again out of fruits or other food.
I can understand that people in a cold climate take them in winter, but during normal weather periods no one should take vitamin supplememts. They are unnecesary and counterproductive.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
No, they don't.
And vegan != vegetarian anyway.
E.G. 'vegetarians' might still eat cheese, eggs or drink milk.
Anyway, as I pointed out, there are plenty of plants that support the body with B12.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Yes, e.g. the yeast bacteria, depending if you want to call it a bacteria or a 'mushroom' ;D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Veganism has rotted your brain and destroyed your reading comprehension*. You did not mention a single source of vitamin B12 in your post. None of those things are natural sources of B12. Not a single one of them.
Let's hear it from the US National Institutes of Health, Office of Dietary Supplements: "Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products. Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods" (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/#h3).
*Not surprising considering a vegan diet is so low in readily bio-available nutrients necessary for good brain function including vitamin B12 (cf. https://www.psychologytoday.co...)
Most plants for ethanol use in the USA are grown locally. Except in markets where it has to be imported like Florida. But the reason cattle farms are in the Amazon is because they got displaced from other regions by biofuel production for the Brazilian market... https://globalforestatlas.yale...
At least they are using sugar cane which is more efficient than corn.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
It's for people who refuse to consider anything that doesn't taste like meat. You may legitimately not be one of them, but they are *extremely* common which is why so much money is being poured into this market now.
Why not just let them eat meat?
... if you don't eat your meat.
Greed is the root of all evil.
Sorry, terrible advice. And you seem to be conflating B12 and D (which is from sunshine). I don't understand why you'd avoid B12 in the summer. One thing in veganism is certain: those who make the bold step of skipping B12 supplements become ill, and change their tone a few years later and are fine once taking a regular supplement.
Yeast is single celled, but it's not a bacterium, and while yeast makes B-vitamins, none of the yeast strains make any B12.
You can buy yeast in the store with B12, but that's because it's been added by the manufacturer.
Anyway, as I pointed out, there are plenty of plants that support the body with B12.
Name one plant that makes B12, and provide a link to nutrition data please.
I already did name 20, 5 posts back.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
700 million people in the world live vegetarian, and most of them have no problem with B12 or lack there off. You just fell into the american lie about B12 is only in meat.
Why don't you make up your mind, if the topic interests you, and read a book about it.
Facepalm ...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I gave about 10 - 20 sources of B12 in my previous post.
"Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods"
Does not mean: not at all
I gave several plants that contain B12 ... now step off my lawn.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You listed a bunch of plants that produce others of the B vitamins but not B12. You gave no plants that contain B12, not a single one, because there are none. The only way plant foods have B12 is if it is added by a manufacturer or if the manure used for fertilizer isn't washed off (and then the B12 is in the manure on the vegetable, not in the vegetable). This is not controversial science. Plants do not produce B12. Harvard's nutrition scientists say it too: "B12 is only found naturally in animal products" ( https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/n... ).
Your confusion on this probably arises from the mentally debilitating malnutrition inherent in a vegan diet.
They get accidental insects in their grains. So even small amounts of meat are enough to keep you from dying. If you eat strictly vegetables you end up getting sick and dying.
Of course thinking may be difficult for modern humans also, since the brain is made from cholesterol and that is now something that people have stopped eating and giving to their growing offspring.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
This implies, that someone — some governmental body — knows, what is good and what is harmful for the rest of us. Contrary to what you may have been led — and even leading others — to believe, there is no such body.
For one example, allow me to remind you of the horrendously ill-fated and ill-conceived "War on Fat" — a completely misguided endeavor, likely responsible for millions of obesity cases in the US alone.
Individuals may make whatever choices they prefer and trust whoever they choose to trust, but the authority of the government must never again be allowed to suggest us, what to eat.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Welcome to a future where what looks like a chair is really a garbage disposal, what looks like vitamins is really rat poison, what looks like meat is really reconstituted soy conglomerate. You looking for mouthwash ?grab the bottle with the label that says furniture polish? The one that says mouthwash is toilet cleanser. We won't rest until nothing is what it appears to be.
Well we know that global warming has a detrimental effect on the planet.
We also know that livestock contribute around 14% of emissions that cause global warming
Reducing live stock consumption would therefore reduce climate change.
Individuals cannot be trusted to do the right thing for the greater good - we've seen again and again that people will do what they want.
Additionally, there is a government body that knows what is good and harmful. It's called the FDA. The FDA has been very effective at stopping food borne illnesses and helping people have safe eating habits.
Sounds nasty. But remember: "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, the whole world would be vegetarian." - Linda McCartney
If you eat strictly vegetables you end up getting sick and dying
False.
Beer contains B12, Sauerkraut does, Carrots do - at least organic grown ones - and I bet most roots like radish and potatoes do as well (organic grown food grows on different soil bacteria, they produce B12 [amoung other things] and the roots of the plants absorb it). Kelp does, asian people like kelp, fermented Soy does, actually it is believed that nearly all fermented "dishes" contain noticeable amounts of B12 (because yeast produces B12, so that would include wine and sake, and traditional made bread, that is bread made from sourdough see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ).
And most importantly: mushrooms contain more B12 than meat, except for liver.
Plenty of nuts, especially almonds and peanuts contain B12.
And bottom line: the amount of B12 the body needs is so absurdly low and the storage capacity of your liver so absurdly high: you easy last 2 or 3 years before you would notice anything if you actually would not take in any B12 during those 2 - 3 years.
In other words: go to the cinema and eat a pack of peanuts and you are set for month. Or eat an asian vegetarian dish with peanuts :D
Anyway, I'm not a vegetarian or vegan. I'm just pissed about the wrong information in america where web sites claim only meat contains B12. What about fish?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
âpâYou should try to not mislead the poor idiots who might stumble across your shitpost.â/pââbrâ âquoteâAlthough mushrooms are not high in B12, they are still the only non-animal fresh food source of B12. â/quoteâ âpâFrom a quick seach, https://www.australianmushroom...â/pâ âpâThe rest of your âoeinfo" sounds just as solid, so I won't bother wasting my time.â/pâ
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
Found an Authoritarian... So I can not be trusted, and therefore it is Ok to compel me. All for the Greater Good[TM] — because common interest before self-interest, correct?
Yes, and only a few years ago the FDA were telling us, we should not eat fat and cholesterol. And now the same organizations tell us it was all wrong. "Healthy habits" my tail — Western world is horribly obese because we trusted the government, that "fat is bad".
That's what parents are for. Parents might know better, than their children. The government does not know better than we do, it does not consist of omniscient selfless and benevolent wizards. Government officials have the same passions, flaws, and vices as the rest of us. Working for NASA does not make anyone more credible than working for Exxon-Mobil.
You can choose to trust someone else at your own peril, but your Authoritarian insistence, that I trust him (and submit to him!) too makes it my peril as well. No way
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I noticed you ignored the reasoning behind what I said - I assume you're pro-climate change? At the very least you're ignorant of its effects.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably noticed that parents often don't know well enough to provide their children with a healthy meal. You're seriously trying to say that the average parent know more about nutrition than nutritional experts? The benefit of the government is that it's made up of multiple people, so even if some of them have passions, flaws, and vices, the combination of them can be better than any of them individually. If they're making the wrong decisions, we can push our representatives to get hem to change.
Everybody has to make up his own mind about nutrition.
The claim that B12 is only in meat is wrong.
Period. (A no brainer: how would it end up in meat if there was no source from which it is accumulated from? Humans consist of meat, too. BTW.)
And that is my only point.
If you are not interested in the topic, then leave us alone, but stop insulting others.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I only listed B12 plants.
Why would I list others?
Plants do not produce B12.
So mushrooms, nuts and kelp are not plants?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Your brain must be really addled from B12 deficiency if you believe that.
You might want to save that facepalm for yourself: there's a difference between vegetarian and vegan. Vegan's don't consume any animal products, where eggs and dairy are consumed by vegetarians and contain B12 (and some even consider sea life 'vegetarian'.) There is zero 'controversy' on the recommendations for vegans to supplement B12. There's a handful of individuals who dispute it, and zero have a degree in nutrition, where 100% of vegan dieticians (people who went to school and studied nutrition) agree on supplementation. You might be interested in sites like https://veganhealth.org/vitamin-b12/.
I've only been vegan for 28yrs, and I've only read half a dozen or so books on the subject, so I know there's still a lot I can learn about vegan nutrition, especially from non-vegans like yourself, so thanks for the tip!
The point of argument was never suplements.
The point of argument is: only animal sources provide B12 is plain wrong.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Where did I say animal sources are the only source of B12? The problem is the plantbased items you listed aren't *reliable* sources, so if you're actually eating those for the B12, and not supplementing, then there's a very high chance you'll end up with a B12 deficiency. You're spreading just as harmful a myth. Please refer to the link I posted, it should clear up any of your confusion. It's years of data-collecting from a vegan dietician.
And back to your original post, tofu isn't a fermented soy, and doesn't contain B12. Again, you're confused, and probably thinking of tempeh, which also isn't a reliable source of B12. You list mostly 'fake' or at best unconfirmed sources of B12. Sorry, but anyone relying on that list would get sick.
Kelp, algae, nuts etc. *are* reliable sources.
Again: I dont't care about vegans, if they are so braindead not to eat cheese, they have to look for themselves where to get B12 from.
I simply loath the american way of lying about simple nutrition facts and the wide spread aceptance and repeating of thise lies on the internet.
Meat is the only source of B12! Wrong!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
As I'm a meat eater and beer drinker: my B12 level is just fine. ...
Idiot
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
haha - you're hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.